DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday 27th November, 2012

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______ 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

2012 SUPREME COUNCIL FOR SPORT IN AFRICA ZONE VI UNDER-20 YOUTH GAMES

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to issue a statement on the status of the preparations for the 2012 Supreme Council for Sport in Africa (SCSA) Zone VI Under-20 Games that Zambia will host from 4th to 17th December, 2012. 

Mr Speaker, it is my honour and privilege to inform the House that Zambia will be hosting the Fifth Edition of the SCSA Zone VI Under-20 Youth Games from 4th to 17th December, 2012. We are expecting to have a total of 1,200 athletes and more than 400 officials coming from member-states.  The member-states of SCSA Zone VI games are Zambia, Zimbabwe, Malawi, South Africa, Angola, Botswana, Namibia, Mozambique, Lesotho, Swaziland, Mauritius and the Seychelles. 

Mr Speaker, you will be pleased to learn that Zambia signed a protocol agreement with the SCSA Zone VI to host the 2012 Under-20 games on 27thMay, 2011. The signing of the protocol agreement meant that Zambia accepted and committed herself to the mandate of hosting the 2012 games successfully. These games are held bi-annually on a mandatory rotational basis among the member-states. The hosting of the first youth games took place in Mozambique in 2004, followed by Namibia in 2006, then South Africa in 2008 and Swaziland in 2010.

Mr Speaker, the theme for the Lusaka December games is “Sport, the Rhythm of Our Nation”. The fewer than twenty youth games will use sports games to achieve peace, integration and unity in Africa. Sport is a vehicle of encouraging people to develop and come together irrespective of colour, economic status, political inclination, class or gender. 

Mr Speaker, the games are earmarked to be officially opened on 7th December, 2012, at Nkoloma Stadium. Eight sport codes namely; athletics for the visually impaired, normal athletics, boxing, basketball, tennis, football, netball, swimming and judo are expected compete during the games. Five competition venues approved by the zonal organising committee have been secured.  These are; Sunset Stadium and Nkholoma Stadium, where the Under-20 and women’s football will be played; NASDEC, which has been rehabilitated to international standard with new netball and tennis courts constructed will also host the boxing matches; and finally, swimming will be held at the Olympic Youth Development Centre (OYDC), where we have built a brand new pool of Olympic standard. The OYDC will also be a competition centre for athletics, basketball and visually impaired athletes. Judo athletes will also be expected to compete from the Mulungushi International Conference Centre. 

The Speaker, the University of Zambia (UNZA) hostels will be the games village for the athletes. The rehabilitation of UNZA hostels commenced on 2nd October, 2012. Contractors who are on site are positive that they will meet the deadline of end of November, 2012. Identified hostels under rehabilitation include Kalingalinga, Soweto, Kafue, October and International. The rehabilitation of the National Sports Development Centre (NSDC) is 95 per cent done as at today. Remaining minor works include painting and finishing touches of the concrete slab on the terraces and vanishing of the brick work of the anti-doping rooms. 

Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of Nkoloma Stadium which includes demolition of walls to interlink some rooms and construction of new change rooms for visiting teams, anti-doping teams and sports officials has progressed on a very fast note in readiness for both the official opening ceremony and the games. The rehabilitation of the OYDC and construction of the swimming pool also have their works done at a 95 per cent level. What remains to be done are the pipe works and the fitting of the pump and the machinery to run the pool. 

Mr Speaker, there are many benefits that come with the hosting of such games. We are going to see a major facelift of UNZA, which has been identified as the games’ village which will accommodate athletes and technical officials. The hostels which were dilapidated are currently under rehabilitation to bring them to first class condition, conducive for students in a first level institution. Sports facilities have been rehabilitated and constructed to international standards. 

Hosting of the games will also save as an inspiration to the vast majority of our youth. They will be motivated to go into sports. This will help eliminate idle time that may tempt them to engage in adverse activities. The hosting of the youth games will accord our country an opportunity to interact with the region and beyond during the tournament. It will further more pave the way for marketing Zambia as a preferred tourism destination. 

Mr Speaker, the games will further give Zambia the opportunity to host high level profile international games and hence position our country as a potential sporting destination. The games will contribute to the promotion of sports, as an economic venture and ultimately promote employment generation which will mitigate social challenges, especially among the youth. 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, it is clear that it is necessary for the Government, business community and co-operating partners to join hands in the mobilisation of necessary resources to ensure the successful delivery of the games. I am calling upon all Members of this august House and all Zambians to come out and watch the games and support the team Zambia.

Sir, I would be failing in my duties if I do not pay tribute to the hon. Minister of Finance for being very helpful in releasing the finances which are required for hosting of the games. It must be noted, Mr Speaker, that when we took over Government, we found only K3 billion was budgeted for these games, but we have spent a total of K105 billion to host these games.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister for a well articulated statement. However, I want to find out from him how his ministry has interacted with the Ministry of Tourism and Arts to ensure that Zambia benefits from the foreign exchange (Forex) that will flow into this country during that period.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, what we have done is to call upon all the lodges to come and register with our office so that we can advise the officials that are coming to make bookings in these facilities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, there is one sport I did not hear and I would like the hon. Minister to indicate why it has been excluded, especially having been a president for that sport, and this is badminton. I did not hear him mention it, if it was mentioned, my apologies.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, it is not part of the games.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, last night the organising committee appeared on television and stated that it was not happy at all regarding the state of the accommodation facilities at UNZA. May I know whether we are going to beat the deadline regarding the rehabilitation of accommodation facilities at UNZA.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I think it is not true to say that the organising committee was not happy with the games village. To the contrary, like I have said, we have done almost 94 per cent of the works. What is remaining is only the painting of the outside and to pick the rubble that was recovered from the renovated rooms. 

However, we had one problem with one Zambian contractor whose employees went on strike for non-payment of salaries. This delayed the works by four days.     We have since asked the workers of that contractor to double up their efforts so that they can meet the deadline.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his statement, talked about the rehabilitation works going on at our largest institution of learning, UNZA. How many hostels were included in the renovations?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I did mention the blocks of hostels that were being renovated. I think if the hon. Member was paying attention, he should have gotten the names.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister said that one of the benefits is that youths around the country will be encouraged to get involved in sports. May I find out what arrangements have been put in place for the youths of Zambia, outside Lusaka, who may not have the chance to actually come and physically view these games.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) has been paid as the official television station to beam live all the games. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, what measures has the ministry put in place to ensure that Zambia is adequately represented?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, all the sporting associations have been given enough resources to camp the teams and train them in readiness for the games. Furthermore, we have a donation from the German Government, who have given us a specialised athletics coach who has been helping to train our athletes.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, in order to have a competitive team to compete at national level, we need to put in place the necessary logistics. I would like to find what you are doing to promote sports in schools.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I admit that under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, sports in schools had deteriorated. However, my ministry and the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is coming up with a strategic plan to promote sports in schools. It will be mandatory for all the schools to have all the seven major sporting activities that are competed for at the Olympics.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, may I find out how many contractors are Zambians and how many are non-Zambians, and if there are any such contractors. I also wish to find out if the contractors are meeting the minimum wage requirements.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would not be in a position, at the risk of misleading the House, to know how many Zambian contractors and how many are foreign contractors there are. However, if the hon. Member puts in a question, we will be able to give him the answer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister that now he is becoming a very good minister.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Keep it up.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Sir, we have heard that some of the rooms at UNZA have been turned into bathrooms. I would like to find out whether after these games, those rooms will be brought back to their original status so that the problem of accommodation at UNZA is taken care of.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to explain that situation to the nation. It is unfortunate that the rooms that were earmarked to be store rooms which are quite small and are just about one and half a metre in length with no ventilation, were turned into sleeping rooms for students. Students were even made to pay for those rooms. In view of the number of people whom we shall be catering and going by the standards of the game, we have turned those rooms into showers. The rooms will remain showers so that we can introduce standards at UNZA. It was unfortunate that such a situation was allowed in which students were being kept like pigs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I wish to not only recognise the hon. Minister’s capabilities, but to also just advise him to stay away from the blame game. It is an old record no one is interested in.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Sir, in his concluding remarks, the hon. Minister indicated that the MMD had allocated K3 billion for preparations for the games and that, in his case, his ministry has spent K100 billion. May I understand the context in which those two varying figures have been achieved and if at all the efficiencies on the part of MMD and inefficiencies on the part of the PF brought the figure to a K100 billion.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I was not part of the MMD Government. Thus, I am not in a position to speak on its behalf. However, I think that it was an act of inefficiency of the worst kind because the K3 million budgeted for the hosting of the games was actually worked out by the previous Government, which knew that the games would cost K163 billion. Heaven knows why it allocated K3 million. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, golf is one of the games that are highly neglected in this country. Is it one of the games to be played at the forth-coming tournament?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the Supreme Council for Sports in Africa (SCSA) has got a number of games that have been selected to be competed for. Unfortunately, golf is not one of them. However, on the local scene, we have encouraged corporate institutions to promote the game. For instance, Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) has employed an expatriate who is running a youth programme for golf on the Copperbelt and, I think, this will be extended to many other mining houses.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that sporting activities will be re-introduced in schools. Will the Government be providing sports attire to the schools?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, we will cross the bridge when we get to it. It is difficult for me to state, for a fact, whether we will be doing that because, when you want to come up with an expenditure like that, you need to consult the Ministry of Finance, but we have not reached that stage yet. However, if need arises, we will inform the House.

I thank you, sir.

Mr Chishiba (Kafulafuta): Mr Speaker, what measures has the Government put in place to avoid load shedding in the villages and venues for the forth-coming event? 

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, to the best of my knowledge, these games will be held between 0700 hours and 1800 hours. So, I do not think that we must worry so much about load shedding. For the equipment that will be there, arrangements have been made to provide them with standby generators. As we have said before, load shedding is not something that we should gloss over because it has come as a result of not investing in infrastructure for more generation of electricity. So, let us not put the blame on specific people because the matter has got a historical perspective 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I congratulate the hon. Minister on a very good statement and on the fact that Nkoloma Stadium, which was my baby from 1969, is now being recognised. Is it the hon. Minister’s wish for stadia like Nkoloma to be expanded to international standards in the future?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, if resources are availed, we will do that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has submitted that those rooms turned into showers were used as sleeping rooms by the students. Of course, they were not habitable, but the fact is that they were sleeping rooms. In the situation where they have now been turned into showers, do you have any intentions to build more rooms in the near future to address the shortage of accommodation that students may face when they re-open?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, that question would be best answered by the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. Ngoma(Sinda): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for his work and a very elaborate statement. He has indicated that NASDEC, the swimming pool and the stadia in Lusaka are 95 per cent complete. What is the level of assurance that he is giving the Zambian people that, come 4th December, 2012, everything will be 100 per cent complete?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I have never started a crusade that I have failed to see through.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Taundi (Mangango): Mr Speaker, what measures has the hon. Minister put in place to ensure that the hosting of this tournament does not only benefit the youths of today, but future generations as well?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, of course, the infrastructure that has been renovated will stand the test of time and continue to be used by youths in the future.

I thank you, Sir.

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

MONEY RAISED BY THE ZITF FROM 2006 TO 2011

275. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

    (a)    how much money was raised by the Zambia International Trade Fair (ZITF) from 2006 to 2011, year by year;

    (b)    whether the ZITF had a deficit or surplus in the period at (a); and

    (d)    what the major cause(s) of the deficit, if any, was.

The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Taima): Mr Speaker, the ZITF raised the following amounts of money:

    Year    Amount (ZMK)

    2006    1,601,000,000

    2007    1,974,000,000

    2008    2,336,000,000

    2009    2,469,000,000

    2010    2,898,000,000

    2011    3,494,000,000

Mr Speaker, deficits were recorded in 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2010 while surpluses were recorded in 2008 and 2011.

Sir, the major cause of the deficit in 2006 was the removal of the grant from the Government whereas, in the other deficit years, there were increases in the operating costs of the organisation against revenues for those years. In 2008 and 2011, the surplus was mainly due to increases in the participation fees and ticket sales.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, in my view, lack of publicity is …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Government Member: Hon. Muntanga, you have just come.

Mr Muntanga: That is how I announce my arrival.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this chance. If you allow me, I would like to read from the Times of Zambia newspaper of 3rd November, 2012, Edition Number 15530, under the headline: First Lady clarifies K1.5 billion allocation, and I quote:

“First Lady, Christine Kaseba, says the K1.5 billion budgetary allocation to her office is not meant for her salary, but for operations. Dr Kaseba said the money was to support members of staff who needed to paid salaries while other logistics also required money from the same allocation. ‘

“The budget allocation is meant for members of staff who need to be paid salaries and also for fuel for the vehicles that we use. It is not meant for my salary and we are thankful that Government has recognised us, she said.”

Mr Speaker, we know that the staff allocated to the First Lady are paid by State House, but appear under Cabinet Office. We also know that the vehicles and fuel used by her are under State House. Is His Honour the Vice-President and the Government in order to keep quiet, instead of coming to this House to explain whether they have actually created or established an Office of the First Lady? 

Sir, one can only acquire the position of First Lady if married to a President. Is the Government in order not to explain when we are passing this budget that there are some members of staff who are not catered for under State House? Is the Government in order not to inform the House that the First Lady has her own staff who have not been catered for by either State House or Cabinet Office? Can the Government also clarify whether this is a slush fund. Is the Government and His Honour the Vice-President in order not to state this to the House? 

I seek your clarification, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker:  You will recall that this matter was earlier dealt with when the Vote was debated, and an explanation was given by His Honour the Vice-President. However, to put the matter beyond doubt, I will allow His Honour the Vice-President to come to the House and just clarify this position by the close of the week.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted by my colleague who has just finished raising a point of order, I was saying that the lack of adequate publicity, in my view, is a key factor in the loss incurred in 2006. How does the hon. Minister intend to improve on publicity so as to attract as many business houses as possible to participate in the 2013 ZITF?

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, 2006 is, obviously, quite a number of years ago. From the figures presented, there has been quite some progress in terms of the revenue that the ZITF has been able to earn. I admit that the ZITF has had a situation in which, while revenues have been reasonably high, the operational costs have been quite high so that we have had deficits. However, if I can be a little more specific on the hon. Member’s concern, which is publicity, I will only say that we are doing everything possible to ensure that the ZITF continues to operate …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Mr Taima: … effectively. To this effect, we just appointed a new General Manager and management team, this year, for the continued effective operations of the ZITF.

Thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, from the figures given by the hon. Deputy Minster, it is clear that there is a trend towards increasing revenues, though, in some cases, deficits were recorded.  What specific measures have been put in place to look, specifically, at ticket sales, which was indicated by the hon. Deputy Minister as having contributed to some of the surpluses in some of the years?

Mr Taima: Mr Speaker, the question is a little too general because I do not know what the hon. Member means by ‘specific measures’ to look at ticket sales with a view to continue maximising on the revenues. Maybe, I can only speculate. If that is the angle from which the question is coming, like I have already said, we want to ensure that the ZITF continues to operate more effectively and efficiently. As such, we are putting a new management team in place and hope that it will continue to improve on performance.

I thank you, Sir.

ZAMBIAN WOMEN WHO OWN LAND

276. Mr Chisala asked the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection what the percentage of Zambian women that owned land in the country was as of 31st March, 2012.

The Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Muchima): Mr Speaker, currently, the ministry’s Land Information Management System (LIMS) is unable to dis-aggregate data in terms of gender. It is, therefore, difficult to provide the statistics, in percentage terms, on how many Zambian women owned land in the country, as of 31st March, 2012. However, my ministry is alive to the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Declaration and the National Gender Policy of allocating 30 per cent of whatever land is available to women, and the remaining 70 per cent to be competed for by both men and women. In order to ensure that this is achieved, the ministry issued a circular in 2009 to all councils in the country requesting them to ensure that at least 30 per cent of land allocation is to women. The ministry is also in the process of fully computerising its operations and undertaking a land audit, which will make it easy to have the statistics on access to land by gender.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, the answer that has been provided to the House is in the negative. This being the case, may I know when this august House is going to be provided with the required statistics.

The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Simuusa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that very interesting observation. The ministry will embark on the planned computerisation very shortly.  I will come to the House in two or three days’ time with full details of the programme. At that point, we shall be able to capture all the data regarding the applicants and properties in Zambia. We want to know the location of every property. 

Sir, immediately after the launch of the project, in about a week or two, we shall embark on the much-talked about countrywide land audit in which we shall, again, audit all the properties and their ownership in the country. On ownership, there will be two variables, one of which is gender. That information will be part of the data that will go into the database so that, in, at least, four or five months, we will be able to segregate any variables which will be needed from the system, including gender. So, if the hon. Member is patient, in the next three or four months, it will be very possible to get such data as gender and occupation. We will also be able to know what each plot is being used for. So, it is a comprehensive system. This is one of the good things that will happen to this country in our quest, as the PF Government, to move this country forward.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the answer that has come from the ministry is very fluid. It is very difficult to understand exactly what he is saying. Since they have said that they will go round the country to conduct a land audit, will this audit encompass traditional land? If traditional land is included, I would like to find out how rural women will benefit from that land through their chiefs.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I think that we need to understand what we are trying to achieve as a nation and as a Government. The hon. Member knows that we have State land and customary land. Therefore, when we conduct our land audit nationwide, we will look at all the properties that are on title and those that are not. We will catch all that data to ascertain how much land in Zambia is State land and how much is customary. 

Sir, customary land is under our traditional leaders, and hence we may not be able to capture the exact details per se of whom their royal highnesses have allocated land to. However, after establishing the percentage of land and property owned by women, the Government will set a precedent upon which it shall urge our traditional leaders, and not instruct them, to ensure that the same standard is maintained when administering customary land. However, firstly,we have to establish the percentage of State land. That will tell us how to proceed as a Government. It will be very easy to work with our royal highnesses and set the precedent.

I thank you, Sir.
_________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

(Consideration resumed)

Vote 46 – Ministry of Health (K2,053,383,286,118).

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to present my case to support the planned activities of my ministry. The Ministry of Health is committed to the provision of quality health services in a clean, caring and competent environment. Through clean, caring and competent services, we aspire to attain the ultimate vision of universal access by all Zambians to quality health care or, in current global parlance, universal health care.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Please, let there be order.

Dr Kasonde: Sir, in developing the ministry’s budget for 2013, we were guided by the fundamental principle of social justice as articulated in the Manifesto of the Patriotic Front (PF) and, indeed, in the Budget statement of the hon. Minister of Finance. We were also guided to operate within the overall national development agenda of the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP), and bearing in mind the national Vision 2030 for which we acknowledge the foresight and wisdom of our forebearers. Finally, we were guided by our belief in the increasing value of the paradigm shift which has led us to realign the functions of the Ministries of Health and Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

We are convinced that active participation of the community in our efforts to improve maternal and child health was missing, as a link, in the attainment of the desired outcome. 

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

It appears that there are too many people consulting loudly. Only one person is supposed to be speaking.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Dr Kasonde:Mr Chairperson, in this brief statement, I shall focus on three aspects. Firstly, I shall highlight the progression and trends in the budgetary allocation to the health sector. Secondly, I shall draw the attention of the hon. Members to a sample list of achievements in 2012 as an indicator of my ministry’s performance. Thirdly, and most importantly, I will sum up the priority areas of focus for action in 2013 and the strategies for realising them. {mospagebreak}

Budget Analysis and Trends

Mr Chairperson, the Government has increased the Budget allocation to the health sector from K2.5 trillion to K3.6 trillion, representing an increase from 9.3 percent of the Budget in 2012, to 11.3 per cent in 2013, which is a good move towards the attainment of the 15 per cent target of the Abuja Declaration of 2003. 

Of the K3.6 trillion, K2.2 trillion has been allocated to the Ministry of Health while the balance goes to the functions of primary health care, mother and child health in line with the realignment of mandates between the Ministries of Health and Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

Furthermore, I want to mention that this increase of more than K1 trillion represents 40.7 per cent increase over the 2012 Budget allocation to the sector. I do not need to remind the hon. Members of this August House that when the PF Government came to power in September, 2011, the sector budget was only K1.7 trillion, representing 8.6 per cent of the National Budget. In just over one year of being in Government, the sector budget has more than doubled to K3.6 trillion and this clearly shows this Government’s commitment to the good health of its citizens which is a key pre-condition for national development.

May I observe that this summary has two major implications for looking at the budget that I will be presenting. Firstly, the large increase in the total amount means that there will be one or two areas in which hon. Members will note a significant increase, particularly in the area of pharmaceuticals. 

The second implication is that funds for primary health care have moved to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. Therefore, a large chunk of funding will not appear under the Ministry of Health.

Performance and Achievements in 2012

    Service Delivery

The Antiretroviral Therapy Programme continued to record major successes in scaling up services to those affected by HIV and are in need of treatment. By the end of June, 2012, there was a total of 415,000 people receiving life saving ARVs in the public sector. Out of these, 32,000 were children below the age of fifteen, representing 8 per cent of those on treatment against the target of 10 per cent. Over 95 per cent of the patients are still on the first line treatment, which is cheaper and more tolerable.

Health Care Financing

Mr Chairperson, in line with the Government policy, the Ministry of Health abolished user fees at the primary level. The current position is that all primary health care services are provided at no cost. This, obviously, has implications for health care financing due to the increased utilisation of health services. To mitigate this, the Government increased the budget allocation to the health sector from 8.6 per cent of the National Budget in 2011 to 9.3 per cent in 2012.

Policy Issues

Mr Chairperson, one of the major achievements of the health sector in 2012 has been the finalisation and approval of the National Health Policy (NHP) which has been in draft form since 1991. The National Health Policy will, among other things, guide work on the development of alternative financing mechanisms that have reached an advanced stage.

Human Resources for Health

Mr Chairperson, on human resources for health, …

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, as of end of June, 2012, the Ministry of Health was operating at 56 per cent capacity of the approved establishment. The sector, in 2012, has, so far, recruited a total of 2,110 trained professionals throughout the country with the overall objective of ensuring an adequate and equitable distribution of appropriately skilled and motivated health workers to provide quality health care. Additionally, a total of 307 trained community health assistants (CHAs) successfully completed a one year- training programme. These have already been posted to all the provinces. In the last month, another 300 CHAs have been enrolled for training. In order to further bridge the skills gap with regard to the shortage of human resources for health, the ministry reopened Chitambo School of Nursing. The Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Childhood worked with the Ministry of Health in opening the Copperbelt School of Medicine. This will definitely help to increase the production of health professionals.

Drug Supply and Availability

Mr Chairperson, the K303 billion allocation for the Ministry of Health in 2012 improved and stabilised the drug situation in health facilities. For health centres, this led to the increase in health centre kits from 22,000 units to 30,000 units and further increased drug availability at the hospital level to about 80 per cent. Further, the Government has been working on improving the supply chain management systems so as to improve the distribution and availability of medicines, especially between the districts and health centre levels, which is the so called last mile, which has been a challenge for a long time.

Infrastructure Development

Mr Chairperson, regarding infrastructure, I wish to state that in 2012, we were able to increase the number of district hospitals under construction by six and also completed the construction of hospitals which were at various phases. Rehabilitation of facilities countrywide is also on going and the focus is on improving our health facilities in order that health services can be provided in a sustainable environment. The Government has also commenced the construction of the in-patient and treatment facilities at the Cancer Diseases Hospital. The project is expected to be completed in October, 2013.

Priority Areas of Focus for 2013

Service Delivery

Mr Chairperson, regarding priority areas for focus in 2013, service delivery is considered first, hence the Ministry of Health will, in 2013, pay particular attention to the quality of health care, that is, the way patients are managed and dealt with. To this end, the PF Government has designed an ambitious and comprehensive programme for upgrading to international standards, the level of performance of the University Teaching Hospital, Kitwe Central Hospital, Ndola Central Hospital, Livingstone General Hospital and Chainama Hills Mental Hospital in the first instance, and all the general hospitals will follow.

Mr Chairperson, a notable increase in the sector budget for 2013 is the allocation for drug and medical supplies which has increased from K303 billion to K618 billion. This represents an increase of more than 100 per cent when compared to the 2012 allocation. Although the availability of drugs and other medical supplies is now around 80 percent, the focus, in 2013, will be on eliminating stock-outs in order to ensure access to quality health services. To this end, the PF Government will make radical changes to the way drugs are delivered by Medical Stores Limited. We shall establish hubs which shall effectively be an extension of Medical Stores Limited at the community level.

Malaria Interventions

Mr Chairperson, the malaria budget has, for a long time, been supported by co-operating partners. In order to eliminate the malaria drug shortages in health facilities, in the Western Province, for instance, the Ministry of Health has, for the first time, introduced an anti-malaria budget line in 2013, which has been allocated K120 billion. This will go a long way in helping to scale up malaria-direct interventions based on epidemiological evidence, surveillance and response as an active effort to reduce transmission and intensification of case management. Our ultimate aim is to eliminate malaria from Zambia.

HIV/AIDS Interventions

Mr Chairperson, in relation to HIV/AIDS, the budget line has increased from K50 billion allocated in 2012 to K175 billion in 2013. This means that this budget line has more than tripled. This is another budget line which has previously and mostly depended on co-operating partners. However, we are determined to increase our national contribution to it.

Mr Nkombo: I might have done similar things.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, by increasing this budget line, we hope to increase early diagnosis and access to ARV drugs. The ministry will, in 2013, focus on improving the quality of life for HIV/AIDS patients by providing, at least, 80 per cent treatment, care and support  through the National Antiretroviral Therapy Programme, including support to hospices. 

Mr Chairperson, in relation to tuberculosis (TB), the Ministry of Health, in 2013, will work to maintain the successes in TB control through the strengthening of the Directly Observed Treatment Short-Course (DOTS) strategy and improving the other areas such as the Multi-Drug Resistance Management and Control, diagnosis, and the management and sustenance of TB and HIV collaboration activities.

Sir, the amount of money dedicated to this activity is K365 million. The primary health care budget line for the DOTS will be under the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Development

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Health will focus on addressing the debilitating conditions of non-communicable diseases (NCDs). The prevention and control of these conditions that strike at the time when least expected, thus causing untimely death, is very important. Being lifestyle conditions and involving various risk factors, the ministry will in 2013, focus on using a multi-sectoral approach in addressing these NCDs. The ministry is, therefore, calling upon all hon. Members of Parliament, line ministries, civil society and co-operating partners to work hand in hand with the Ministry of Health to combat these conditions.

Sir, the use of mobile and emergence health services will help to enhance the emergence and response teams at national and provincial levels. Additionally, the Flying Doctor Service will be fully operational. More ambulances and motorcycles will be purchased and the emergency service at the University Teaching Hospital will be re-ogarnised.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry has noted that most infrastructure projects take a long time to be operational. The ministry has already started addressing this concern.

Sir, the Ministry of Health in consultation with the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, advised a much more service-oriented approach to construction. This means that within Phase 1, health facilities will become functional as the other phases continue to be built. Phase 1 will now include the Outpatient Department, thereby allowing the facility to be operational. This approach will allow the hospital to be utilised while other processes continue to be built and assessment is made of the feasibility of visitors’ accommodation, so much supported by the hon. Member for Mumbwa, and, maybe, we shall call them ‘Chituwo Houses.’

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, K186.1 billion has been budgeted for infrastructure development in the 2013 Ministry of Health Budget. In addition to this, a further K204 billion has been provided for upgrading of the UTH, Ndola Central Hospital, Kitwe Central Hospital and Livingstone General Hospital.

Sir, in addition, K110.8 billion has been provided for the procurement of various medical equipment for health facilities. With these funds, the Ministry of Health will, in 2013, focus on upgrading of general hospitals to central hospitals and upgrading of some district hospitals to general hospitals. We will also continue with the construction of district hospitals and staff accommodation targeted for rural areas and health posts in a phased manner.

Mr Chairperson, the over-arching goal of these and other interventions is to ensure that the quality of service is delivered in an improved staff environment and by motivated staff. The ministry will focus on completing on-going constructions which has been an outstanding issue for too long. Further, the Ministry of Health will fulfill its promise to construct 650 health posts to improve access to health services.

Sir, the focus for 2013 will be on upgrading Livingstone General Hospital as part of the preparation for the United Nations World Tourism Conference (UNWTO) and also upgrading of some other general hospitals to enable them to fully function at this level.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Health currently has a total of 21 district hospitals under construction across the country. There is need for a minimum of one district hospital in each district including those that have just been created.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: With new districts, there is need to expand this program further, and we hope to achieve this within the 2011 to 2015 National Health Strategic Plan (NHSP).

Mr Chairperson, with regard to human resources for health, the Ministry of Health was allocated K30.8 billion for net recruitment in 2013. This allocation will facilitate the recruitment of more health personnel. The ministry will further focus on facilitating the hiring of professional health workers, not only locally, but also from outside the country, as need arises.

Sir, the Ministry of Health will, in 2013, conduct the Zambia Demographic and Health Survey so as to collect performance indicators on health which will help the Government to track millennium development goals (MDGs) progress on health related MDGs. The ministry will further work on strengthening, monitoring and evaluation so as to track health sector projects including the mobile health services and provide accurate and evidence-based information on the status of such projects.

Mr Chairperson, it is my intention to bring before this House, a Bill proposing radical re-organisation of health research in the country.

Sir, with regard to health care financing, the focus of the Ministry of Health, in 2013, will be to establish sustainable financing mechanisms for the health sector, which shall, among other functions, supplement the normal funding mechanism to the health sectors.

Mr Chairperson, I wish to use this opportunity to notify hon. Members of this House that the Government has made important steps towards the setting up of the National Health Fund. The proposed fund will include, the Health Insurance Scheme, initially covering all public sector workers, but will eventually be rolled out to the entire formal and informal sector in a move towards universal health coverage. Preparatory work for setting up of this fund is well underway and includes the preparation for the possible enactment of a National Health Fund Bill.

Sir, with regard to governance, following the adoption of the Governance and Management Capacity Strengthening Plan by Government and co-operating partners, the Ministry of Health in 2013, will continue to emphasise the prudent and efficient utilisation of resources with the focus on service delivery, the areas of focus being re-organising the procurement system, improving accountability, financial management and tracking resource flows. 

The governance and management capacity strengthening saw the return of partners’ confidence in our country’s financial management with corresponding resumption in external resource mobilisation.

Sir, in summary, the priority areas for action in 2013, will include disease control as I have described infrastructure development, human resource development and recruitment, research and health communication, reform of health care financing and strengthening of financial management and accountability.

Interruptions

Dr Kasonde: There is no page missing at all, Sir.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, the impact of all these activities should be the provision of quality health care in a clean, caring and competent environment, leading to the attainment of universal access to health care.

In conclusion, what do I ask of hon. Members? I seek a shared vision of universal, quality health coverage. I seek continued collaboration in ensuring that health services are clean, caring and competent. Above all, I seek vigorous support from hon. Members for the modest budget that I now present to this august House.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Chairperson, the Vote under discussion is a very important Vote as a healthy nation is a rock on which the foundation of any country is built. Allow me to register my disappointment in the manner in which some hon. Ministers have been answering questions when we ask for clarifications on certain Budget Heads. I hope the Ministry of Health will give us professional answers.

Mr Chairperson, the Budget is the most important policy tool of the Government because it can not operate without money. The Vote under discussion has been allocated about K2 trillion which translates to about 11.3 per cent of the Budget which is below the 15 per cent of the Abuja Declaration, if I am not mistaken. This is an example of a failure by the PF’s first Budget.

Sir, going by the statistics given by Hon. Kazonga, this ministry alone has got about 55 amendments which is a pity. This allocation caters for the recruitment of 2,000 medical personnel, requisition of medical equipment …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Ms Lubezhi: … and drugs as well as infrastructure development. Going by what needs to be done, the amount of money allocated to the ministry is not enough. 

Mr Chairperson, I have been to most medical institutions and I will give an example of the UTH. The situation at the UTH is pathetic. If one was to break their back today, the UTH does not have implants. Therefore, they would have to seek medical assistance elsewhere. The CT scan at the UTH has been down for about three years. They rely on the one used at Levy Mwanawasa Hospital which is overwhelmed already, but this is the ministry which we are giving only K2 trillion. 

Mr Chairperson, Namwala District Hospital does not have basic facilities like an intensive care unit(ICU). One evening I had the privilege to find myself at a clinic in my constituency when a woman was about to give birth. A male nurse had to help a certain woman to deliver her baby. However, there were no lights so they were forced to use a cell phone light. That is how bad the situation around the country is and yet we are only allocating about K2 trillion to this ministry.

Sir, it does not pay for the hon. Members on the right to keep on living under the illusion that the nurses in these clinics do not administer treatment because they do. The best thing to do would be for them to own up and, probably, give these nurses the required skills because it is these same nurses who run these clinics and give prescriptions. 

Mr Chairperson, user fees were abolished in last year’s Budget in an effort to improve service delivery. Service delivery was improved in the sense that people could walk into clinics without paying, but they would walk out more depressed than they were when they walked in because they did not get anything at all.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear.

Ms Lubezhi: People are being given prescriptions to buy medicine, but if 75 per cent of the Zambian population struggle to put food on their tables, how will they afford to buy medicine? People in Zambia still walk long distances to get health services, but this is a ministry which we are not investing in and paying enough attention to.

Mr Chairperson, I do not think the Government attaches any value to health. Going by the key issues, how much money are we putting towards immunisation? Nothing. How much money are we putting towards the acquisition of drugs? Nothing. Zambia is on record as being one of the countries that have not done much in reducing maternal mortality. It is a great paradox to lose life when one is bringing in life.

Mr Chairperson, Zambia is also listed as one of the eleven countries which have done little towards the attainment of MDG number 4. There is a child and a mother who die every minute from preventable conditions in Zambia. This is unacceptable especially when we know what we should do. All we have to do is put the right policies in place, buy the necessary equipment and motivate the medical staff. 

However, all of this cannot be done because we have a lot of misplaced priorities. For example, is it necessary to build a house worth K4 billion for the incumbent President? 

Hon. Government Member: Chongo.

Ms Lubezhi: Why not push that K 4 billion into the UTH and ensure all those deplorable wards such as G11 and E11 are turned into high cost wards? The UTH only caters for the less than twenty people who can afford high cost wards while Zambia has got above 13 million people. 

Mr Chairperson, looking at the misplacement of priorities, we have the Sondashi Formula which would have put this country on the world map as the country that found the cure for AIDS. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Have we given the Sondashi Formula any money in this Budget? Why not take the K1.5 billion which is meant for an institution which does not exist to the Sondashi Formula because it exists.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, there is so much misappropriation of funds in this country. I get very concerned when people are justifying the building of the current President’s house. The Constitution clearly says former Head of State, but we want to change it to current Head of State.

Hon. Opposition Member: Imagine.

Ms Lubezhi: Why have they failed to build a house for Rupiah Banda for the past year?

The Chairperson: Order!

Can we return to the subject.

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, I was just giving examples of the misappropriation of funds.

Mr Chairperson, as long as the Ministry of Health does not have properly defined policies, we will always find ourselves in a situation where the Head of State has to go and inspect an institution such as the UTH when it runs out of water .... 

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: … after he has heard that the caring United Party for National Development (UPND) has taken water there. 

Mr Chairperson, investing in health is not a waste of resources. There are economic gains that can be derived from investing in health. One example is the cutting down of specialist trips to India. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, we have to put oversight measures, budget tracking and accountability mechanisms in place.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Approval was given for the construction of clinics last year, however, up to now none of those clinics have been built. This is because we do not have a tracking record of these activities which we allocate money to. That is the reason some ministries fail to answer questions. They allocate resources to activities that add no value. If they knew what their ministries stand for then they would be able to tell this House what those activities are for.

Mr Chairperson, I recall what Hon. Magande said after the Budget Speech. He said that he was disappointed because he could not hear words such as science and technology. For example have we done any research to establish the link between the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and health investment? No, and that is why we cannot push more money into this sector. No wonder Zambia has remained as one of the lowest ranked countries even for things like under 5 mortality rate. We are not doing fine according to Africa Public Health Information Network.

Mr Chairperson, last year, when we debated the Ministry of Health, we talked about the portfolio of Mother and Child Health, which has now been taken to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. There is a very thin line there. At what point does this woman or mother report to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health? At what point does she go to the Ministry of Health for clinical services? No wonder Hon. Kapata is all over the country trying to look for these children. She is actually trying to find work to do so that she finds donors to take them to hospitals. 

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: Sir, she is justifying the existence of her portfolio. When does a child go to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health? The Government has put itself in a very complicated system in which it is failing to operate. Why do you keep doing this to yourselves? This is perfect failure. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, much as I understand that the current Government is new; that it is its first term in power, definitely, going by what has been going on with this Budget, the technocrats are professionals. They have been saying that they are sitting on a time bomb. Who is sitting on the time bomb? Those are technocrats and professionals. You are the ones who are new in the system and you are the time bomb to the technocrats.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Babulelele. 

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, when the President came to open this session of the House, he pleaded with the hon. Members on your left to work with him.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Ms Lubezhi: Sir, I am a very generous person and can offer my consultancy services to the people on your right freely so that the next Budget will be well-prepared and well-presented. As I have said, investing in health is not a waste of resources. There is so much that is not going well in this country, especially in the health sector. We need healthy people to have a healthy nation. Investing in health is a crown of humanity. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Siamunene (Sinazongwe): Mr Chairperson, I want to indicate that I support this very important Vote because it takes care of the lives of the people. I will confine my debate to the issues of evaluation and control. I think that we are very good at planning in this country, but when it comes to implementation, evaluation and control, we lack direction. The ministry should make sure that the communities in which these services are delivered actively participate in the programmes. Sometimes, it is difficult to define quality unless the recipient acknowledges that there are quality services being provided. Currently, we, really, need to involve the community so that they can give feedback on the quality of the services they receive. 

Mr Chairperson, in Sinazongwe Constituency, the situation is really bad.  Once, I was told that a certain medical worker was not working well. I tried to advise this person, but he told me that I was not the one who had employed him. He said that it was the Permanent Secretary who did. So, we can only receive this quality service if we get the end-users to be fully-involved. Otherwise, as the situation is, currently, we will be paying lip service. 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister has emphasised infrastructure development. We, really, need to be told where these 650 health posts will be built around the country so that we can see, for sure, that there is equitable distribution.

Sir, there is need for the Ministries of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and Health to interact. We live in an advanced world, technologically, in which the people who are affected must be the ones to do what is right in order to change the curriculum. The Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education participates, but the sole custodian of this particular sector is the Ministry of Health. Therefore, the ministry, really, needs to look at that and to determine what should be done by the two ministries. 

Sir, the issue of medical staff should be looked at seriously. What is happening is not good. The ministry can indicate that it has five doctors but, in the actual sense, there is only one doctor at the health institution. On one occasion, we argued when the hon. Member from Mulobezi indicated that there were no doctors at Sichili Mission Hospital and the hon. Minister of Health indicated that there were five doctors at the insitution. Most of the doctors go for further training, but are not put in the pool. My suggestion is that, when these people are sent for further training, they must be put in a pool so that the other medical staff can have a chance to train. What is happening is that the hospitals, clinics and health posts are left with no people to attend to patients. We need to resolve this issue. Otherwise, it will be very difficult for the people to appreciate what we are doing.  

Mr Chairperson, let me propose to the hon. Minister that he does things differently in order for that gap to be filled …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Siamunene: … because what is currently happening is not good. When we talk about medical supplies, we are still encountering the same problems because we have not involved the community in the provision of health care. Unless, we involve the area hon. Member of Parliament, village headmen, chiefs and councilors, things will not be done accordingly. As a politician, my interest is to make sure that the services are delivered to the people, unlike the situation we currently have, in which the appraisal system is very poor and does not allow the people in the community to be involved in what is happening. If you allow the community to appraise the health institutions, you will notice that the information that will be received by the ministry will be different from what is currently being received.

Mr Chairperson, let me also indicate what is obtaining on the ground. Currently, we do not have medical staff in Sinazongwe, Siapondo, Muuka and Kachindu. We only have two active doctors in Maamba because of this problem. Let me urge the hon. Minister to resolve this problem quickly because the people need these services urgently. 

Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate. I also thank all the hon. Members who have taken time to listen to my debate.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice, on behalf of the people of Kaputa, to the debate on this important Vote presented by our able hon. Minister of Health.

Mr Chairperson, I will be brief and restrict myself to a few points that I want to make.

Mr Chairperson, first and foremost, I would like to look at the issue of our trained healthcare providers who have been employed. As indicated by the hon. Minister, that number is in excess of 2,000. Much as the hospitals and clinics in the urban centres could have benefited more  than the people of Kaputa, let me bring it to the attention of the hon. Minister, through you, that, in Kaputa, we want to benefit from the number of healthcare providers being trained. Currently, Kaputa, as a district and constituency, does not have clinical officers to man the clinics that are scattered all over the area. 

Mr Chairperson, Kaputa, being where it is, brings me to the issue of malaria. Kaputa is not like any other district in Zambia that is elevated. It is located between lakes and swamps. Therefore, the malaria is endemic there. It does not only appear in the rainy season. It is a disease that is with us throughout the year.

Mr Chairperson, even as I am commenting on the budget line, the people of Kaputa are  dismayed by the increased malaria incidences. Much as the Government has put in place measures to lessen this condition, the endemic nature still requires that we have medical personal and anti-malaria drugs in this area. Let me also say that the distances from the town centre make life extremely difficult for those who would like to help with the provision of services.

Mr Chairperson, therefore, through you, the people of Kaputa would like to see that, out of the budget line that the hon. Minster talked about, they get a substantial allocation that will help in handling many issues which include the malaria problem. It is a disease that we want to deal with so that, as the country celebrates that we are eliminating malaria, the people of Kaputa can also be part of the celebrations.

Mr Chairperson, let me briefly talk about the transport facilities that are given to our medical personnel. I will not necessarily look at the figures that are in the budget. Let me quickly state that Kaputa is not the only district that lacks adequate transport facilities. However, we are in an area where we do not have the infrastructure where people could go to help the Ministry of Health to improve the transport systems. When it comes to the issue of child immunisation or in-door residue spraying, there is no mobility that can be provided to the people that would want to help.

Mr Chairperson, let me inform the hon. Minister that Kaputa will, definitely, rely on the money that is in the budget. If there are no ambulances that will be sent there, the people of Kaputa will struggle and suffer, because the distances and terrains are not so conducive and cannot allow people to use their own transport facilities to help.

Mr Chairperson, indeed, the 650 clinics that will be constructed is a very good and admirable figure. However, I think, it is almost a year from the time that we started talking about the project, but we have not seen this programme come into effect. This is an important matter, especially, for the people of Kaputa who cannot wait further for this to be done because the medical situation and infrastructure in this area are bad. When a promise like this is made, we would want to see programmes expedited so that the benefits can be brought to us. We have indicated to our people that ten clinics will be built between Kaputa and Nsama. However, they still believe that the figure is not enough. They want to see more infrastructure constructed as quickly as possible. It is the duty of the ministry, through the allocation of resources, to have this infrastructure constructed as quickly as possible so that all the people, including those in Kaputa, benefit. 

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Chairperson, let me thank the hon. Minister for presenting the Vote for the Ministry of Health. This is a very important ministry, compared to eating. Unless society is healthy, individuals may not even be born to want to eat because health and being able to reproduce are fundamental, and these are issues that come out of the aspect of health.

Mr Chairperson, for many years, people have considered health as a social issue. It is only now that people have realised that it goes beyond that. There are many important economic issues associated with the Ministry of Health. For instance, it is now well known that a population that is not healthy cannot be expected to develop. How can sick people be productive? How do they go into factories and farms to work? This, they can only do if they are healthy. 

Sir, to respond to one of the comments that I heard earlier, there, definitely, is a relationship between the health status of a country and its economic performance. There is no doubt about this. This is the number two reason the Ministry of Health is very important. 

Mr Chairperson, thirdly, economies of countries with good health services are complemented by the fact that patients do not go elsewhere to spend money on treatment, thereby creating jobs in other countries. To the contrary, they are able to attract patients from other countries to seek medical services in those countries because their medical services are better. As a result, the fees, water drank by patients as well as the food eaten, obviously, contributes significantly to the economies of these countries. In Africa, it is very clear that the economy of South Africa is benefiting a lot from countries like Zambia which send patients there. This is how important the Ministry of Health is. 

Regarding what is happening now, I think that everybody recognises that there has been some progress made. The last time I looked at some health indicators, there was some progress. The patient to doctor ratio has somewhat come down. The maternal and infant mortality rates have reduced and I believe that we are actually heading towards meeting some of the MDGs. 

Mr Chairperson, there was a professor who used to teach us about people’s conditions, and he used to say that when you satisfy something, you will realise that, in fact, there are many more things that need to be attended to. This, in my opinion, is also true for the hon. Minister of Health. Some progress has been made, but there is still a lot to be done. 

Mr Chairperson, I would like to turn to issues of a typical rural constituency such as Liuwa and tell the hon. Minister about some of the concerns the people have. The first concern is that access to the nearest medical service provider is very limited because most of our districts and constituencies are vast. Until a few years ago, there were some districts which did not have hospitals at all. There are many constituencies that do not have hospitals. 

Mr Chairperson, one does not need to spend money to create districts which should be able to provide these services. When a district is created, this hinders the progress of providing some of these services. Why do I say so? 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: When a new district is created, the first thing that district commissioners (DCs) do is to construct offices for themselves and not hospitals or schools. That is money that could have been utilised to build these facilities. 

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours. {mospagebreak}

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, when business was suspended, I was indicating that access is a big problem in many of our constituencies and districts. I said that, in many cases, in Liuwa, for example, the nearest hospital can be as far as 120 km. 

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Can we, please, consult quietly.

Dr Musokotwane: The nearest clinic can be 60 or 70 km away. 

Mr Chairperson, with such long distances, it is not surprising that many people, when they get sick, will not think about going to the nearest health service provider because it is obviously very discouraging. Most of the time they will approach someone who is in the vicinity, and this would be a traditional healer. Reducing distances is something that is very important, especially when we take into account the fact that when someone is sick, the ability to move to the nearest health service provider is very limited. 

The people of Western Province also have a problem of transportation. I do not know how many ambulances there are in Kalabo, but I doubt whether there is more than one. This is a district which is 400 km in the north-south direction and another 200 km in the east-west direction. Clearly, a single ambulance under those circumstances cannot be helpful, especially for us because our driving conditions are extremely difficult since our terrain is very sandy such that a 4 wheel drive vehicle can only go at a maximum speed of 25 or 30 km per hour. Therefore, the issue of transportation for people who are sick is something that we want this Government to address. 

Mr Chairperson, in the past few years, as I said earlier, there have been a number of health centres under construction. We are concerned at the rate at which they are being completed. There are many whose construction started more than two years ago and yet, to-date, they are incomplete. This is something that is demoralising communities, especially that, most of the time, those communities have been asked to make contributions. However, we are not completing them in time. I would want the hon. Minister to ensure that these projects that have initiated can be completed on time. 

Mr Chairperson, it is also sad that the institutions which have been completed are going for years and years without medicines and medical personnel. As far as we can tell, they are white elephants now. People are asking what these clinics are for because they are not seeing the medicines and staff. How are we helping our people?

   Sir, I hope that the hon. Minister can accelerate the recruitment of staff so that these institutions that have been completed can be manned.

Mr Chairperson, again, talking from the rural constituency point of view, we are worried to hear about possibilities of having individuals contribute something for health services. I hope this does not mean that we are getting back to the policy where patients will start paying. Maybe, this can be done in the constituencies here in the cities but, certainly, not in the rural areas. The moment you do that, just know that 50 per cent of people who should be going to health institutions will not do so. This is because, for them, even K2,000 is a hindrance let alone K5,000 or K10,000. So, I hope that this is something that is not going to be done.

Sir, before my final point, I wish to advise the hon. Minister that we need to look at the environment. I suspect that if our living environment was better than what it is today, the amount of money that you need to take care of us would be much smaller. However, we have allowed the environment to deteriorate. We will not be surprised if there is going to be a cholera outbreak this year in our cities because we have allowed the street vendors to be all over the place. We have allowed pools of water to collect and yet when the PF Hon. Members were in the Opposition, each time there was a little bit of water, for example, in Kanyama, they would go there with their boats and flags and so on and so forth. As I was coming here this morning, only four-wheel drive vehicles could pass through some of the streets because of the flooding. Since they used to be so active, why do they not go and clear out the water so that the mosquitoes are not given a chance to breed? With these pools of water, I am sure, hon. Minister, you will agree with me that your malaria burden …

Colonel Chanda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Colonel Chanda: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member speaking on the Floor, who was at one time hon. Minister of Finance and who knows how much money was meant for the people of Kanyama for the drainage system was misappropriated by the MMD Government, in order to start accusing this Government of failing to address the problem of floods in the area? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Chairperson: I think we are talking about the present. So, he is in order.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: You may continue, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Long live the Chair!

Dr Musokotwane: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. Before I was interrupted by the point of order, I was saying that it is important for the hon. Minister of Health to work together with his colleagues and ensure that our environment is cleaned up. That way, we will avoid spending money on treatment of patients with cholera and malaria. We shall also reduce on the amount of money that we are going to spend on patients suffering from dysentery.

As I conclude, Sir, I recall that my sister who spoke earlier talked about the need to ensure that the resources are focused on the key areas in our nation. If it was me, I would not spend K4 billion building a house that is going to be empty for the next eight years that is for the President because there would be no one to occupy it.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Instead of wasting that kind of money, …

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to condemn the Government, and yet when he was hon. Minister of Finance, he did approve K7 billion for the construction of the then President’s house? Is he in order to mislead the House and the nation at large?

Interruptions

The Chairperson: If my memory serves me right, the Hon. Mr Speaker had said that His Honour the Vice-President was coming to say something on Friday. Maybe, the Hon. Deputy Minister was not there when that was said. So, you wait until clarification is given on that.

You may continue, please, hon. Member.

Dr Musokotwane: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kampyongo: Hypocrisy!

Dr Musokotwane: Before I was interrupted by that point of order, I was saying that if it was me, rather than spend money to construct or establish new districts where the first thing that is done is either to build offices for the district commissioner or to hire PF cadres to be district commissioners, I would put that money together and make sure that I put up hospitals because this is what the people want.

A hospital does not need to be constructed at a Boma. We all know that. You can construct a hospital or a secondary school anywhere. However, when you use money to create a district, you are just delaying progress because, instead of doing the needful, you are spending the money on irrelevant things.

Mr Chilangwa: Question! Bicycles!

Dr Musokotwane: I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Actually, my memory did not serve me correctly. I was supposed to say that His Honour the Vice-President is coming to say something on the allocation to the First Lady, and not on what was raised in the point of order. I just wanted to correct that.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, before I make my formal submission, I would like to congratulate the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central on having brought the plight of the patients at the UTH to the fore and on making the President and Ministers of Health to scramble and ensure that adequate services are provided at the hospital.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Secondly, Sir, I also want to congratulate the people of the Western Province in that the Government has now realised that the people of this province do not just have a paramount chief, but also a king in the name of the Litunga, 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: …who is a king of the Western Province. Congratulations to the people of the Western Province.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear! King!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, on Friday morning, I was driving along the Nationalist Road on my way to the Ministry of Lands around 0800 hours.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, as I was driving past the UTH, I saw a long queue of people. I slowed down to check what was happening, I was alarmed at the time and started thinking that even in Lusaka we were experiencing a serious shortage of mealie-meal and Zambians were queuing up for it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Oh! At the UTH, surely!

Mr Mwiimbu: Unfortunately, the situation that I found was depressing. The people were not queuing for any essential commodity. They were queuing up at the mortuary to take out bodies of their beloved ones.

Mr Muntanga: Oh, oh!

Mr Mwiimbu: There were so many people. According to my own recollection, there could have been more than eighty people. It just shows, Mr Chairperson, that our health infrastructure and services in this country have collapsed. As a result of that collapsing, in Lusaka alone, more than sixty people are being buried everyday, which is a very sad state of affairs.

It is a call on all of us to ensure that requisite health services are provided to our people so that unnecessary deaths do not occur in this country. I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Health to drive there tomorrow morning and check what is obtaining at the UTH mortuary. What he will find there is a very depressing situation. I have no doubt that a similar situation is also obtaining in most of the major hospitals in this country such as Kitwe Central Hospital and Ndola Central Hospital.

Mr Chairperson, apart from that, I also had the misfortune of visiting the UTH yesterday. What I found and saw at the hospital is very depressing. You go to the UTH to visit a patient and you find, to the depression of almost everyone, that patients are being nursed by relatives. It is the relatives who look after the patients. The nurses and other health officials will advise that whoever has a patient in the hospital must leave a relative at the bedside to nurse that particular patient. In my view, this is one of the few countries in the world where relatives are made to nurse sick relatives. Apart from that, we are also endangering the lives of those people who are nursing sick relatives in these hospitals.

Mr Chairperson, I recall that the hon. Minister of Health, on the Floor of this House mentioned that the Government discourages the idea of relatives nursing patients in hospitals. However, I wish to state that patients cannot do without their relatives at hospital bedsides. Nurses at these big hospitals are so few that they are not able to look after all patients. If a patient has no relative and there is nobody by the bedside for one week, that patient will never be washed or cleaned for one whole week. There is no one who will do that.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to implore all of us to search our souls so that we can make proper decisions on some of these very critical issues. I have no doubt that a similar situation is obtaining in all our constituencies. It is unfortunate. We need to do something about this sad scenario. The issue I am raising is non-partisan. It is one that affects all of us. Maybe, those who have never been to the UTH are fortunate. Those who have never had any one of their relatives being admitted there are fortunate. Maybe, they have resources to take them to alternative hospitals. I would like to call upon all hon. Members of Parliament to thoroughly think about this state of affairs and ensure that it does not take root in our society. 

Mr Chairperson, the other issue I would like to raise is the unfortunate situation that is obtaining in Monze. Zambia attained independence in 1964 and we are now in 2012. From the date of independence to date, successive governments have failed to build any hospital in Monze. We are living and thriving at the mercy of the Catholic Church in Monze.

Hon. Opposition Member: You are lucky.

Mr Mwiimbu: Yes, we are lucky. We are lucky due to the caring Catholic Church that has provided the requisite facilities in Monze, where we have had no Government hospital. Therefore, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Health to ensure that Monze District is accorded a district hospital like any other district in the Republic of Zambia. We are aware that new districts are being accorded the privilege of being given district hospitals, but that is not the case in Monze.

Hon. Government Member: Change the Member of Parliament first.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I know that there are hon. Members in this House who like passing running comments on issues that affect the lives of our people. I know that such people lost the independence of wisdom a long time ago.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Please just ignore those people and discuss the subject.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I earnestly appeal to my brother, the hon. Minister of Health to ensure that, next year, a provision for the construction of a district hospital in Monze is made. Monze District Hospital, which is a mission hospital, caters for Gwembe, Namwala and other surrounding districts. I am also aware that due to the good services that are being offered by the church, that hospital in Monze is almost operating as a referral hospital because there are certain specific provisions that are being provided in Monze that have led to people in Zambia to trek to Monze. I would like him to pay particular attention to the issues that are obtaining in Monze.

Mr Chairperson, I would also like to appeal to the hon. Minister to consider upgrading Chikuni Mission Hospital, which the Government always refers to as a clinic although the services that are being offered to the people of Chikuni by the Catholic Church there are better than those being offered in most Government hospitals. They have better facilities and doctors and all they want is the Government’s assistance to ensure that it is accorded the status of a district hospital.

Sir, I would also like to appeal to the hon. Minister, that as the Government builds the 600 clinics, which it intends to build next year, if at all they will be built, to ensure that these clinics are manned. We are aware that the Government of the Republic of Zambia has been building clinics in the past without them being manned by any qualified medical personnel. We do not expect the sad scenario to continue where infrastructure is provided without support staff. Speaking on behalf of the members of staff in the Ministry of Health, I would like to appeal to the hon. Ministers of Health and Finance, respectively, to ensure that the gallant men and women, who are well qualified to work in the health sector are given conditions of service that are befitting. If we do not do that, we will continue having the serious brain drain that is affecting the health sector. We are all aware that a number of our health personnel have migrated to the United Kingdom and other countries where better conditions of service have been offered.

Mr Chairperson, finally, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Health to liaise with his colleague in the Ministry of Justice to ensure that the unfortunate law that was passed by this House, prohibiting Zambians from insuring themselves with international insurance companies for medical cover purposes is repealed.

Currently, Mr Chairperson, a number of Zambians have been failing to obtain quality health services in Zambia and outside because of that law.  That unfortunate law, as I indicated, prohibits Zambians to subscribe to any outside insurance scheme. As a result of that, a number of our people have died due to failure to secure medical services outside. The insurance cover, which is being provided by the Zambian insurance companies, does not work. I am aware that a number of us have travelled abroad. Even if you have a so-called insurance cover, which is just a piece of paper, and fall sick outside Zambia, you will never be attended to because the insurance cover from the Zambian companies is not recognised internationally.  I would like to appeal to all of us to rise and ensure that Zambians are not denied the right to quality medical services. A few people can pay without insurance for medical services outside the country. I would like to earnestly appeal, and I can see the hon. Minister of Finance nodding, to prevail on his colleagues to ensure that this law is repealed.

I am much obliged, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson.  I will be very brief.

Firstly, Mr Chairperson, I want the hon. Minister of Health to explain how expired drugs are disposed of from most of our health posts and clinics, especially in the rural areas.  In some cases, when these drugs expire, they are not withdrawn from the health posts. Some of these diseases, maybe, are as a result of unqualified medical personnel giving expired drugs to patients, especially in the rural areas. 

Secondly, Mr Chairperson, why has the ministry allowed Chinese drugs with labels written in Chinese to be on the Zambian markets? It is very difficult for people to take these drugs when they are not labelled in the official language.

The rural areas are also affected by the issue of radio communication equipment. The House is aware that most of the rural areas do not have transport and the only way they would seek for help is by radio communication.  So, health posts should be provided with radio communication systems. I have a number of health posts in my constituency, but it is very difficult to communicate with the district hospital to send an ambulance in an event that there is a serious patient. I have always said that my constituency is the only one in the Southern Province that has not been provided with radio communication towers. So, I urge the Government to consider addressing this issue.  Once this is done, I am sure the people will appreciate.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister, in his policy statement, did not talk about mobile hospitals. In Dundumwezi, there are no mobile hospitals and do not know where they operate from. I thought by virtue of being in the rural area, it will be the most visited constituency using such facilities.  We also have problems and, therefore, mobile hospitals should be sent to rural areas rather than having them around the line of rail.

On the issue of the retention scheme, I have not heard anything from the hon. Minister. Why has the ministry continued recruiting foreign doctors? I thought the ministry has continued recruiting foreign doctors and medical personnel because there is a deficit in this country. Now, since there is a deficit, it means giving them good conditions of service. I was shocked one time when I heard that our foreign doctors working in the country have not been provided with a retention scheme. So, if the ministry has to retain the foreign doctors, this has to be considered because the country has a deficit of medical personnel.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kasonde: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, for giving me this opportunity to wind up debate and respond to the six statements which have been given by the hon. Members, which are very much appreciated.

Maybe, as a preliminary, let me mention to the hon. Member for Liuwa that a few minutes ago, I was advised that the Zambia Flying Doctor Service has gone to his constituency to attend to one patient. I think that point is relevant to what he contributed. There are, obviously, several contributions to which I may not be able to respond because of the time factor, but I would still like to record my appreciation for them. Many of them are points of guidance and advice to which my colleagues and I will definitely attend …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! The hon. Members behind the hon. Minister are consulting loudly. I do not know really how you expect the hon. Minister to be heard. 

The hon. Minister continue.

Dr Kasonde: … in order to improve the service which we offer which is guided by the principle of universal coverage. We will address the concerns of the different hon. Members based on their immediate significance. 

I shall begin with an early response to a contribution by Hon. Mwiimbu, who is out of the House. As I conclude, I shall also address another issue raised by him in the hope that he will be back by then and also because his contribution required some detailed attention. If I may summarise the contribution of Hon. Mwiimbu, it seems to be a combination of facts and fallacies. My understanding of a fallacy is an allegation of something totally unsubstantiated. This unique combination of fallacy and fact has characterised the presentation of my colleague, but I am grateful to him because having been in this House for sometime now, I have observed the general relations between brothers and uncles, sisters, and nephews as they were calling each other. 

I never heard anyone call me brother. This is the first time. I, therefore, thank hon. Mwiimbu for introducing me to the House as his brother.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: The fallacies I am referring to include, firstly, that the hon. Member suggests that the number of deaths, as seen in the mortuary, is representative of the delivery of services. This is a fallacy. What is the connection? We have statistics of people who were admitted and people who died. We cannot go and count the people at the mortuary and say that this is the indicator. We have proper indicators. Let us use them.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Mwiimbu referred to Monze Hospital as a Catholic contribution. In spite of Government inaction and inactivity, may I mention that the staff at Monze Hospital are paid by the Government. So, again, this is a fallacy. We cannot say that this is a solely Catholic contribution when all the staff at the hospital are being paid by the Government.

In medical philosophy, the elimination of relatives supporting their sick is for the purpose of ensuring that nurses attend to the patients. However, we can still make the two useful forces enjoy productive collaboration. I shall provide more facts to Hon. Mwiimbu towards my conclusion.

Hon. Member for Namwala, I thank you very much for your comments that the percentage given to the Ministry of Health should continue to go up. We are together on this. I think that the hon. Minister of Finance is also with us on this as shown by the fact that he has increased our allocation by 2 per cent when it is compared to the one for the previous year. The trend that we see, now, will make us move towards meeting the 15 per cent target. 

Mr Chairperson, may I mention that the Sondashi Formula is a subject on which we are absolutely fit to talk about at whatever length. The Deputy Minister of Health, Hon. Dr Chikusu, is actually a member of the team working on the formula. We have, from that team, records of when and where certain things are being done. We have the records from the team that the final moment it is awaiting is the approval by our Ethics Committee. The approval should be made during the course of December. My duty, as hon. Minister of Health, is to protect the population so that no experiment is going to be carried out on them without having gone through all the procedure that are needed to ensure safety of the patient. We shall wait for that ethical review no matter what it takes. 

Sir, with regard to establishing the link between the GDP and research, there has been a lot of work which has been done in that area. Recently, the World Health Organisation (WHO) published a massive document called Macro-Economics and Health in which it urges this relationship to be developed further at the country level so that people realise that we are dealing with more, as Hon. Dr Musokotwane said, than the medical prescription. We are dealing with the economy.

Sir, an issue coming from Hon. Siamunene of Sinazongwe, with whom I had other discussions earlier today, is that of when and where the health posts will be built. I distributed the list of proposed health posts so that hon. Members can be apprised of what we were trying to do. If the hon. Member does not have the list, we can give him another copy. We shall increase the budget appropriately in order to cope with the demands of the construction programme. The 650 posts have been going through various tender procedures, which, I am advised, are now complete and the expected date of the first brick-laying is February, 2013.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: Hon. Ng’onga of Kaputa talked about malaria, which is, of course, a very serious issue in Kaputa. That is why, in my statement, I mentioned that a special budget line has had to be created because of this important decision to eliminate malaria from this country. We are already seeing good results. When we went to Mazabuka, yesterday, to see some of the figures, we saw close to zero beginning to be achieved. The same has happened in Sinazongwe, and Lusaka is also moving in that direction. This is the way forward and we shall pursue it.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member for Liuwa talked about access, which is a very important issue which we have begun to attend to very seriously. I do not mean to say that his idea about traditional healers being our replacement is the one I would like to follow. The access I wish to look at comes in three types. There is financial access, geographical access and intellectual access. 

On the financial access side, we shall come back to the House with suggestions on how to totally reorganise the financing of healthcare in the country. Year after year, we have known that the total grant that we can obtain from the Government is inadequate for the needs of the country. What it will take for individuals to contribute is something we can discuss. What we cannot discuss is that the payment should be made on the occasion of the sickness. This is where we must not differ. 

Mr Chairperson, some kind of payment will have to come in, but let us all understand the principle that, whoever is going to be asked to pay should not be made to do so at the point of use. The question of paying, hon. Member for Liuwa, should not arise at the time of accessing the health service. 

Sir, may I conclude by giving one minute to issues which were raised by Hon. Mwiimbu. I want to mention something else which was talked about by the hon. Member for Dundumwezi, who made many suggestions and contributions that I appreciate. I think that the issue of Chinese labels must not be confused with our constant use of Japanese labels on their vehicles. Whereas, with the vehicle, nobody has complained about that sound when reversing, which says something in Japanese because you still know that it is going backwards, you are quite happy.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: It is not an issue of what the sign is. It is whether it is going backwards or not. In this case, we have made it clear that all the medicines that are approved by the PF Government will have to be labeled on in English, in addition to whatever language that is used. If they are not doing that, it is either the drug is not approved or they are committing an offence.

Mr Chairperson, finally, Hon. Mwiimbu proposed repealing the insurance law, and I think that is a comment that I take seriously. However, I want to explain to hon. Members that there are many reasons why we are coming back with the proposal for re-organising the financing of health services.

   One of them is finding out the legal constraints to achieving what we want to do. Therefore, his suggestion is, to us, only one of many that we are taking into account as we try to change the way things are done. 

Mr Chairperson, finally, I appreciate that the re-alignment of the Ministry of Health activities with those of the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health has led to some confusion in some circles. However, let me make the background clear. 

Sir, there is a fundamental principle of segregating the functions according to the levels. The level of policy-making has to be centralised because all the policies we make about financing and drug control are central issues which my ministry will formulate. At the second level of operation, we need to identify which arm will play which role. We may single out the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health and the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs as key stakeholders in the provision of health services. There are also other stakeholders. The churches, individuals and corporate organisations, such as the mines, are all providing services, as I said yesterday, when I opened a hospital that has been constructed by Zambia Sugar PLC in Mazabuka. These are all actors carrying out components of one objective, and that is to ensure the good health of our people. 

Sir, the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health has been identified as a key partner in the providing of health services because the missing link in our attempt to reduce maternal mortality has always been the lack of participation of the community. The Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health can help us to work with different communities. Let us wait and see how effective this will be. The fundamental principle, here, is that, when we come to the delivery of health services, we are not going to talk about policy …

The Chairperson: Order!

I have a problem with the people at the far right at the back …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, I am fortunate that those people are literally at my back. I have a passion for the multi-sectoral and multi-disciplinary approach. I am glad that I have not been tempted to talk for too long. I hope my point has been taken.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!{mospagebreak}

We now move to individual items.

VOTE 46/01 – (Ministry of Health – Human Resource and Administration – K260,457,951,146).

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

(i)under Unit 01 – Administration, Programme 5001 General Administration, by   the deletion of Programme Total K4,488,053,740 and the substitution therefor of K4,488,053,741; and
(ii)under Unit 01 – Administration, Programme 5005 – Grants to Institutions – Operational, by the deletion of Programme Total K82,342,344,148 and the substitution therefor of K82,342,344,149.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5005, Activity 002 – Blood Transfusion Service – K2,937,016,076. The amount allocated this year was K11,010,028,478. Next year, the amount has been reduced to K2,937,016,076. Why has there been this huge reduction?

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Chairperson, the funds under Programme 5005, Activity 002 are required to meet the cost of running the National Blood Transfusion Service in Zambia, and will go towards ensuring adequate safe blood in all hospitals countrywide.

 I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

I am waiting for that note from our advisors. Maybe, there is an additional answer. Officers, please, look out so that, if there is something from people who are supposed to advise us, you move fast to get that information because, if you delay, by the time you want to bring it, I would be wanting to move on. 

You may continue, hon. Minister .

Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, there is an amendment.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: What is that now?

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, I think that there were two points that the hon. Deputy Minister was trying to make. One is that the figures quoted have been amended. The other is that there has been a reduction in the amount allocated because there is a genuine attempt to do this work not only at the centre, in Lusaka, but also in the provinces. This is our move and it explains the reduction.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, I think that it is important that you have the amendments, which are quite many, so that you do not ask something on which an amendment has been made and agreed to. There are a number of amendments and, on this one, the amendments had been agreed to. Therefore, the answer to the follow up question is that one of the figures that has been amended, and the amendment has been agreed to.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5003, Activity 006 - Community Health Workers Training Programme – K1,171,100,000. This year, K17,305,683 was allocated for this activity, but for next year, it is K1,171,100,000. Why has there been a huge increment in the money allocated for this activity when most of the community health workers have already been trained?

Interruptions

The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Mulenga): Which page?

The Chairperson: He mentioned page 728. Please, you should pay attention when questions are being asked. 

You may repeat your question, Hon. Miyanda.

Mr Miyanda repeated the question.

The Chairperson: Have you got the question now, hon. Deputy Minister?

   Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, the funds under Programme 5003, Activity 094, are required to support the setting up of a viable community health workers programme coupled with a suitable incentive structure so as to offset the shortage of skilled health workers.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5001, Activity 005 – Support of Permanent Secretary’s Office – Nil and Activity 006 – Support to Minister’s Office – Nil. I do not see any allocation to the minister’s office or the Permanent Secretary’s Office. Where are the allocations?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, the two offices in question have not been given funds because they are now part of another line which deals with public affairs in general.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! 

Please, you listen in order to avoid going to and fro.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5065, Activity 002 – Assets Valuations for Government Departments and Ministries – NIL. In the 2013 Budget, there was no provision for this activity. Does this mean that there will be no asset valuation next year? I also seek clarification on Programme 5079, Activity 005 – Insurance of Motor Vehicles – K892,165,296. I want to know the insured value which attracted that amount in the form of insurance premiums. Further, why is there a decline in the insurance premiums payable in 2013?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, under Programme 5079, Activity 005 – Insurance of Motor Vehicles – K892,165,296, the decline is due to the reduction in the premium based on the type of vehicle and its lifespan. As a result of the reduction in the lifespan, there is depreciation. Therefore, the depreciation is based on the book value. In this case, the value has come down, hence the reduction in the premium. 

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Chishiba (Kafulafuta): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on …

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order, order!

Mr Chishiba: …Programme 5005, Activity 015 – Churches Health Association of Zambia – K11,949,252,610. This year, there was an allocation of K1.4 billion. However, the allocation for 2013 is more than K1.4 billion. May I know the activity content. Why has the allocation increased to this amount?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, the Churches Health Association has acquired more work with the addition of hospices, as a starting point. Above all, it must be noted that any increases that occur in terms of the number of Government employees also leads to an increase in the terms of the grant required at the same ratio.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5026, Activity 014 – Retention of Health Workers – K9,261,023,704. May I know what this is all about. Further, I seek clarification on Activity 003 – Expatriate Health Workers – Nil and Activity 029 –Expatriate Health Workers – K2,207,314,584. I wonder why we could not have just used one activity and deleted the other ones.

Interruptions

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5026, Activity 014 – Retention of Health Workers – K9,261,023,704, these funds are required for the retention scheme for health workers. The package was developed to stem the exodus of health workers, thereby improving the distribution of skilled workers in the rural areas. 

Activity 003 – Expatriate Health Workers – Nil and Activity 029 – Expatriate Health Workers – K2,207,314,584, this provision is required to meet the cost of maintaining a team of expatriate medical doctors and will go towards paying their living allowances, accommodation …

The Chairperson: Order!

The question is on Programme 5003, Activity 006 – Community Health Workers Training Programme – Nil and Activity 094 – Community Health Workers Training Programme K1,171,100,000. Why did we have those two activities instead of one?

Interruptions

The Chairperson: It is not my duty to do this. Hon. Members should be listening when questions are asked.

Can the hon. Minister assist, please.

Interruptions 

Mr Mukanga: No. That was not the question.

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, this Activity has gone to Primary Health Care under the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 46/01, as amended,ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 46/02 – (Ministry of Health – Policy and Planning – K117,819,758,906).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Order on my right, please.

Mr Chikwanda: … an amendment under Unit 02 Planning and Budgeting, Programme: 5011 Infrastructure Development, by the deletion of Programme Total K84,405,263,347 and the substitution therefor of K84,405,263,346.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 46/02, as amended, ordered to stand part of Estimates. 

VOTE 46/06 – (Ministry of Health – Public Health and Research – K8,246,004,850).

Dr Kazonga: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5103, Activity 001 – Mental Health Services – K 203,978,894, Activity 002 – Support to Bilharzia Programme – K64,064,217 and Activity 003 – Support to Epilepsy Programme – K88,657,759. I see that there is a general reduction in the provisions that are being proposed for next year compared to this year. May I know why there is a general decrease in the provision for non-communicable diseases (NCDs)?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, the NCDs are being handled … 

The Chairperson: Order!

Speak up a little, Doctor.

Dr Chikusu: The NCDs are being handled by the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5070 and Programme 5104. If all the activities which are shown under Programme 5070 are being transferred to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, then why are figures still appearing in each activity? Under Programme 5104, we see that the allocation has been reduced by over 50 per cent in some cases. Why is this so when nutrition is the hallmark of health?

Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, the reason all the funding for certain activities has not been completely taken to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health is because the Ministry of Health will still be responsible for certain policy issues. As regards the second part of the question, the Government has increased the money allocated for nutrition issues because it wants to prevent stunted growth and deaths amongst children.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Chairperson, just as a follow up. I would like to inform the hon. Minister that it is a reduction and not an increase that the hon. Member was referring to. The hon. Member was trying to find out why the allocation has been reduced when nutrition issues are very important. It is a very simple question.

Interruptions 

Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, most of the activities under that allocation have gone to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5072, Activity 001 – Insecticide Treated Nets – Nil and Activity 002 – Indoor Residual Spraying – Nil. In this year’s Budget, we have K168, 390,202 for Activity 001 and K625,181,999 for Activity 002 but, for next year, we have nothing. Does it mean that these activities will not be undertaken next year? 

Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, that programme is going to be implemented by the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, this is a follow up to the question by Hon. Mwanza. The question was why have the activities been allocated funds under the Ministry of Health if they have been moved to another ministry?

The Chairperson: I thought the answer is that they have been moved to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, the answer is that they have been moved to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr M. B. Mwale (Malambo): Mr Chairperson, as a follow up to Hon. Mwanza’s question, why is it that the activities that have been transferred to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health are still being funded under the Ministry of Health?
 
Dr Chikusu: Mr Chairperson, the process is gradual. I also wish to state that we have already passed the budget for the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health under which some of the items in question appear.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

The Chairperson put the Question. 

Mr Muntanga stood up. 

Laughter

The Chairperson: Mr Muntanga, unless we want to go on and on … 

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, we have often said that we want to do the right thing …

The Chairperson: Go ahead and ask your question. Do not begin lecturing us.

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: Why is it that the things that have been provided for in another ministry should be provided for again under another ministry? We should be given reasons for the double allocation.

The Chairperson: Let me seize this opportunity to advise some of our staff who are here to assist with answers. You are here to assist the hon. Ministers with answers, please. I am sure that you have the answers except that it is taking too long to get your answers to the hon. Ministers. Please expedite the process.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, I think this point is larger than the specific points. So, I am rising to explain the position which I attempted to explain in my statement. We have roles to play for the Ministry of Health and for the primary health care providers. What this means is that, if a child has to be immunised with a measles vaccination, then, that will be a matter for the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. However, if that same child were to be very sick, requiring secondary or tertiary attention, then, the Ministry of Health will have to come in.

This is the distinction which is going to take some time to get used to. We need to distinguish between public health and clinical health issues. For example, the screening of people for cancer of the cervix will be dealt with by the Community Health Department. It is the people from this department who will be going out into villages to screen people. However, if a woman is discovered to have cancer of the cervix, then, it is no longer a matter for the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. It is a matter for the Cancer Diseases Hospital which comes under the Ministry of Health.

The Chairperson: That is better. I think that is the answer that should have been given a long time ago.

Vote 46/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 46/07 – (Ministry of Health – Clinical Care and Diagnostic Services – K1,127,165,739,286).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

(i)under Unit 01 Clinical Care and Diagnostic Services, Programme: 5052 Medical Supplies, by the deletion of Programme Total K594,056,220,543 and the substitution therefor of K594,056,220,544;

(ii)under Unit 02 University Teaching Hospital, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K174,097,057,967 and the substitution therefor of K174,097,057,966;

(iii)under Unit 02 University Teaching Hospital, Programme: 5001 General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K12,616,878,891 and the substitution therefor of K12,616,878,892;

(iv)under Unit 03 Ndola Central Hospital, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K56,065,261,352 and the substitution therefor of K56,065,261,351;

(v)under Unit 03 Ndola Central Hospital, Programme: 5024 Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,305,442,110 and the substitution therefor of K4,305,442,109;

(vi)under Unit 05 Chainama Hills Hospital, Programme 5000: Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K31,059,883,756 and the substitution therefor of K31,059,883,755;

(vii)under Unit 06 Kitwe Central Hospital, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K47,061,066,405 and the substitution therefor of K47,061,066,406; and

(viii)under Unit 06 Kitwe Central Hospital, Programme: 5024 Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,652,904,716 and the substitution therefor of K4,652,904,715.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulomba: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5011, Activity 003 – Construction. In this year’s Budget, we have K5,795,876,846, but next year, there is no allocation. Are we saying that there will be no more construction works under the Ministry of Health?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, some of the projects have already been completed and that is why there is no allocation there.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5011, Activity 002 – Fire and Office Insurance. I have seen that this year, there was an allocation of K11,739,889,044. Why is there no allocation for next year? 

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, that is part of Activity 217- Servicing and Maintenance Contract – K11,801,855,757 under the same programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. Zimba: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5052, Activity 009 – Blood Transfusion Commodities – K19,287,573,881 and Activity 010 – Blood Transfusion Commodities. May I know why Activity 010 has not been allocated any money and why the same activity has been appears twice in the Yellow Book?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, these are funds allocated under this newly-introduced budget line that will be required for the provision and management of blood transfusion services country wide. We have combined the two activities under one allocation.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: What do you mean by saying that you have combined the two activities? There is Programme 5052, Acitvity 009 – Blood Transfusion Commodities - K19,287,573,881 and in Activity 010 – Blood Transfusion Commodities, there is nothing. You have two similar items under that programme.

Interruptions

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, it is not as complicated as it sounds. In Activity 009, you can see it appears in three columns. Activity 010 appears in two columns. In other words, what was allocated under this particular function of blood transfusion is now not going to be catered for in this 2013 Budget. That is why the two activities were maintained to show this difference.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Can you also read the answer from the experts. Is it the same?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, what we need to do is to delete the K4,496,795,918 and to insert K16,072,978,234. The difference is that on one hand, we are dealing with commodities and in the other, we are dealing with grants. That is why the two lines were kept separate so that when one was discontinued, the other would continue. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa(Solwezi Central): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5024, Activity 061 – Specialised Treatment – K4.5 billion. I would like to be enlightened on what that allocation is for. Secondly, Activity 018 – Local Specialised Treatment, I see that it has dropped from K765,313,446 to K1 million. 

Hon. Members: K1 billion!

Mr Mulusa: Mr Chairperson, I withdraw the second question.

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, these funds are needed for clinical mentorship and supervision in pediatric HIV care in all provinces in order to enhance skills, aptitude and practices that will enable provisions of appropriate services. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katambo(Masaiti): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5108, Activity 001 – Conduct Operational Research. There was a provision of K34,748,232 last year, but for next year, there is no provision. The key priority area in the ministry for the year, 2013 is disease control. Why is there no provision?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, that activity has gone to Activity 007.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5039, Activity 001 – International Specialist Treatment. I have noticed that there was an allocation of K3,541,668,580 for this activity this year but, unfortunately, there is no money that has been allocated to this activity for next year and I am finding that so hard to believe. Is there no plan for specialist treatment for next year?

The Chairperson: I think, the questions should be brief. This is one area where we can move fast by simply stating that I have noticed there is no provision in the 2013 …

Mr Lufuma: Could I have an explanation, hon. Minister.

The Chairperson: I am still explaining. You can simply say why is there no provision for this activity in the 2013 Budget when there was one in 2012 Budget.

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, equally, that activity has been moved to Programme 5024, Activity 016 – Specialised Treatment – K4,500,000,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Chairperson, my question was very simple. May I seek clarification on Programme 5024 – Activity 016 – Specialised Treatment – K4,500,000,000. This heading says specialised treatment and it should be leading to the usage of the money. The hon. Minister indicated that this allocation is meant for capacity building and training. I would like to find out if we are going to be approving headings when the use is for something else. What is the new item is all about?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, I said this includes treatment that is specialised abroad.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/10 – (Ministry of Health – Central Province – K56,697,887,955).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

(i)under Unit 21 Kabwe General Hospital, Programme: 5001 General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,339,337,813 and the substitution therefor of K1,339,337,814;

(ii)under Unit 22 Kabwe Mine Hospital, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K10,305,361,228 and the substitution therefor of K10,305,361,227;

(iii)under Unit 22 Kabwe Mine Hospital, Programme: 5001 General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K629,170,873 and the substitution therefor of K629,170,874;

(iv)under Unit 31 Kabwe Zambia Enrolled Midwifery School, Programme: 5003 Capacity Building, by the deletion of Programme Total K683,171,694 and the substitution therefor of K683,171,693.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 46/10, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/11 (Ministry of Health – Copperbelt Province – K56,659,447,296).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

(i)under Unit 21 Roan Hospital, Programme : 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,881,562,709 and the substitution therefor of K4,881,562,710;

(ii)under Unit 21 Roan Hospital, Programme: 5001 General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K848,781,381 and the substitution therefor of K848,781,380;

(iii)under Unit 21 Roan Hospital, Programme: 5004 Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K805,591,967 and the substitution therefor of K805,591,968;

(iv)under Unit 22 Nchanga North Hospital, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K5,876,248,909 and the substitution therefor of K5,876,248,910;

(v)under Unit 23 Ronald Ross Hospital, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K18,340,816,480 and the substitution therefor of K18,340,816,479;

(vi)under Unit 23 Ronald Ross Hospital, Programme: 5024 Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,356,126,046 and the substitution therefor of K1,356,126,047.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 46/11, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/12 – (Ministry of Health – Eastern Province – K60,291,045,289).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

(i)under Unit 21 Chipata General Hospital, Programme: 5001 General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,236,499,659 and the substitution therefor of K1,236,499,660;

(ii)under Unit 22 St Francis Mission Hospital, Programme: 5001 General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K966,872,916 and the substitution therefor of K966,872,917;

(iii)under Unit 22 St Francis Mission Hospital, Programme: 5024 Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,575,441,618 and the substitution therefor of K1,575,441,616;

(iv)under Unit 32 Chipata School of Nursing, Programme: 5003 Capacity Building, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,201,783,783 and the substitution therefor of K1,201,783,782;

(v)under  Unit 40 Provincial Health Office, Eastern, Programme: 5001 General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K2,200,723,715 and the substitution therefor of K2,200,723,715; and 

(vi)under Unit 40 Provincial Health Office, Eastern, Programme: 5025 Health Systems Management, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,382,994,925 and the substitution therefor of K4,382,994,926.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Mr Mtolo(Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, may I seek clarification on Programme 5025. I have been looking for an allocation in the budget where I would see money for the procurement of equipment like the MRI scan machines. I have not found that allocation in the budget. I would like to know why it has not been included in the budget?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, such machines are centrally procured.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Vote 46/12, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/13 – (Ministry of Health – Luapula Province – K40,439,331,488).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

(i)under Unit 21 Mansa General Hospital, Programme: 5024 Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K2,237,583,339 and the substitution therefor of K2,237,583,338;

(ii)under Unit 32 Mansa School of Nursing, Programme: 5003 Capacity Building, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,084,597,397 and the substitution therefor of K1,084,597,396; and

(iii)under Unit 40 Provincial Health Office – Luapula, Programme: 5025 Health Systems Management, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,078,658,614 and the substitution therefor of K4,078,658,613.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 46/13, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/14 – (Ministry of Health – Lusaka Province – K47,152,459,707).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

(i)under Unit 21 Levy Mwanawasa General Hospital, Programme: 5024 Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K3,160,265,445 and the substitution therefor of K3,160,265,446;

(ii)under Unit 35 UTH School of Anesthesia, Programme: 5003 Capacity Building, by the deletion of Programme Total K450,793,694 and the substitution therefor of K450,793,693;

(iii)under Unit 40 Provincial Health Office – Lusaka, Programme: 5001 General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,583,945,022 and the substitution therefor of K1,583,945,021;

(iv)under Unit 40 Provincial Health Office – Lusaka, Programme: 5011 Infrastructure Development, by the deletion of Programme Total K7,666,786,058 and the substitution therefor of K7,666,786,059; and 

(v)under Unit 40 Provincial Health Office – Lusaka, Programme: 5025 Health Systems Management, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,157,683,988 and the substitution therefor of K4,157,683,989.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 46/14, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/15 – (Ministry of Health – North-western Province – K48,221,362,698).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

(i)under Unit 21 Solwezi General Hospital, Programme: 5024 Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,737,988,468 and the substitution therefor of K1,737,988,469;

(ii)under Unit 22 Mukinge Mission Hospital, Programme: 5000 Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K9,954,750,197 and the substitution therefor of K9,954,750,196;

(iii)under Unit 31 Solwezi School of Nursing, Programme: 5003 Capacity Building, by the deletion of Programme Total K676,689,043 and the substitution therefor of K676,689,042;

(iv)under Unit 40 Provincial Health Office – Northwestern, Programme: 5011 Infrastructure Development, by the deletion of Programme Total K7,400,092,631 and the substitution therefor of K7,4000,092; and

(v)under Unit 40 Provincial Health Office – Northwestern, Programme: 5025 Health Systems Management, by the deletion of Programme Total K4,508,998,942 and the substitution therefor of K4,508,998,943.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Mr Pande(Kasempa): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5011, Activity 111 – Construction of District Hospitals – K 3,333,362,152. Which hospitals will be constructed? Further, is Kasempa included? 

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, I wish to assure my colleague that the work plan will be circulated. I am sure once that is done he will know whether Kasempa is included. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisanga(Mkushi South): Mr Chairperson, almost every page has an amendment. 

The Chairperson: Yes. 

Mr Chisanga: Can the hon. Minister confirm to this House that the officers at the Ministry of Health did a bad job because the way things are being done is difficult to follow.  

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Chairperson: Order!

We cannot be going back. Amendments have been made, and I think that you are taking us back to the policy debate. 

Hon. Mulusa, you may seek your clarification. 

Mr Mulusa: Mr Chairperson, in the same line of confusion, …

Laughter 

Mr Mulusa:… I am unable to trace the substantial drop in the department total from K102 billion, last year, to K48 billion, this year. 

The Chairperson: What programme is that?

Interruptions

Mr Mulusa: Do not tempt me to speak directly to you. 

The Chairperson: Order!

What page?

 Mr Mulusa: Mr Chairperson, the department total on page 825 has dropped considerably from K102 billion to K48 billion. I cannot, for the life of me, follow this structure and see where the drop is so that I can ask an intelligent question. 

The Chairperson: Order! 

Are we on Head 46/15 or 46/16? Have we gone backwards?

Mr Mulusa: Sir, we are on vote 46/15. 

I am talking about the department total, which has significantly dropped from K102 billion to K48 billion. I have been trying to work backwards to see where the drop is. However, because of the way the information has been presented, where this year’s totals are missing, I am not able to see where the drop is. Therefore, I cannot ask for a clarification. 

The Chairperson: On Vote 46/15, there was an amendment moved by the hon. Minister on the department total and we agreed to the amendment. The department total is, therefore, K48 billion, as amended. Maybe, the hon. Minister of Finance can help the hon. Member understand. The K48,200,000,000 is as a result of the amendment. So, the total will not be what is currently showing.

Mr Mulusa: Sir, I have read through the amendments.  The amounts for the amendments are very small. They cannot account for the drop of over K60 billion. This province has just received an in-flow of people from the Copperbelt and, therefore, needs more funding. Educate me on where the drop is.  

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, the drop that the hon. Member of Parliament is talking about is due to the fact that some functions of the ministry have been taken up by the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. Most of the activities that he is talking about have gone to that ministry. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Interruptions

Question that Vote 46/15, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates, put.

Hon. Opposition Members called for a division. 

(Bell rang)

Mr Kambwili crossed the Floor to talk to Mr Mulusa and Mr Nkombo.

The Chairperson: Order!

A division has been called. 

Hon. PF Member: Tiza miyasha lelo.

The Chairperson: Lock the doors. Let the bar close. We are now starting the process of voting.

Interruptions 

Hon. Nkombo: On a point of procedure, Sir. 

Mr Chairperson: Okay, go ahead, Hon. Nkombo.

Hon. Nkombo: I am very thankful to you for allowing me to intervene and indicate that, after chatting with the hon. Member for Solwezi Central and the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, it has come to our attention …

Mr Mushanga: Let us vote!

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Nkombo: … that the vote might just waste our time because we have got work to do. 

Sir, the figures that the hon. Member for Solwezi Central is looking for are on another page as an overflow. I think that we need to agree, here and now, as Government and Opposition, to be a bit more attentive so that we can guide one another. I wish to take this opportunity to thank the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, Hon. Kambwili, for coming to explain that what seems to be missing is actually there, but on another page. I am begging the indulgence of hon. Members on your left, if possible, to drop the call to have a vote so that we pass this particular Vote. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

In light of this explanation, is it agreed that we proceed without a division? I see no objection from my left. We, therefore, proceed. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 46/15, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1817 hours until 1830 hours. 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

Vote 46/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 46/17 – (Ministry of Health – Southern Province – K99,879,707,721)

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

VOTE 46/17 – MINISTRY OF HEALTH – SOUTHERN PROVINCE

(i)under Unit 23 – Choma Hospital, Programme 5024 – Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K467,684,174 and the substitution therefor of K467,684,175;

(ii)under Unit 24 – Chikankata Hospital, Programme 5000 – Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K11,614,119,820 and the substitution therefor of K11,614,119,821;

(iii)under Unit 24 – Chikankata Hospital, Programme 5024 – Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K353,571,370 and the substitution therefor of K353,571,369;

(iv)under Unit 25 – Macha Hospital, Programme 5000 – Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K9,773,297,332 and the substitution therefor of K9,773,297,331;

(v)under Unit 25 – Macha Hospital, Programme 5001 – General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K622,584,994 and the substitution therefor of K622,584,995;

(vi)under Unit 26 – Maamba Hospital, Programme 5024 – Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K234,391,928 and the substitution therefor of K234,391,929;

(vii)under Unit 32 – Livingstone School of Nursing, Programme 5003 – Capacity Building, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,422,193,920 and the substitution therefor of K1,422,193,921; and

(viii)under Unit 34 – Monze School of Nursing, Programme 5003 – Capacity Building, by the deletion of Programme Total K618,345,183 and the substitution therefor of K618,345,182.

Amendment agreed to. 

Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 46/17, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 46/18 – (Ministry of Health – Western Province – K40,243,116,643)

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments:

(i)under Unit 21 – Lewanika General Hospital, Programme 5000 – Personal Emoluments, by the deletion of Programme Total K21,075,931,102 and the substitution therefor of K21,075,931,101; and

(ii)under Unit 40 – Provincial Health Office – Western, Programme 5001 – General Administration, by the deletion of Programme Total K1,124,636,254 and the substitution therefor of K1,124,636,253.

Amendment agreed to.

Vote 46/18 accordingly amended.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on the departmental total for Vote 46/18. We have five new districts which have been created, yet we have only been allocated K40,243,116,643 for next year. We have just heard that the Southern Province has been allocated K99,879,707,721, yet the Western Province is getting K40,243,116,643. May I know why. Why forte?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Why forte?

Laughter

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, this is just due to budgetary constraints. 

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! It is a bad answer.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5011, Activity 191 – Construction of Staff Houses – K1,500,018,526. Where will these houses be constructed? Secondly, may I have clarification on the same Programme Activity 111 – Construction of District Hospitals – K4,666,711,953. Which are these hospitals?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, the districts are covered under the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The question is under Programme 5011, Activity 111 – Construction of District Hospitals. Which hospitals are these? Then under Activity 191 – Construction of Staff Houses, where?

Mr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, the funds are required to meet the cost of constructing district hospitals at the following places: Mongu District Hospital, which is now in Phase II; Lukulu District Hospital, Phase I; and Shang’ombo District Hospital. 

With regards to the funds for the construction of staff houses, these have not been allocated to individual institutions, but will, obviously, be required to meet the cost of constructing staff houses at the hospitals I have mentioned.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Vote 46/18, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 46/19 – (Ministry of Health – Muchinga Province – K23,571,023,980).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment under Unit 21 Chilonga Mission Hospital, Programme: 5024 Health Service Delivery, by the deletion of Programme Total K945,258,372 and the substitution therefor of K1,124,636,253.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 46/19, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Deputy Chairperson: By special arrangement, we move to Vote 76 – Ministry of Youth and Sport.

Hon. Opposition Members: Why?

The Deputy Chairperson: I said, by special arrangement.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I rise not to give a challenge to the Chair that I respect so much. We have an Order Paper here and I would like to seek your further guidance. I presume that this special arrangement is as a result of an omission. If that is the case, the dignity and decorum of this House, therefore, must be in tandem with these special arrangements. I am fully aware that there are some amendments that ought to have reached us regarding this particular Vote. This is the reason it is on the Order Paper. This Order Paper was circulated not only to the hon. Members, but also worldwide through the Parliament Website.

Sir, there is decency, in my view, that hon. Members on the left hand side should no longer be treated as rubber stamps by the Executive. I say so because a week ago, we had a breakdown and we resolved this matter administratively after we had meetings with His Honour the Vice-President, myself as whip of the United Party for National Development and my colleague, the MMD Whip. In that meeting, we requested that we visit the Standing Orders. On Page 70, Standing Order No. 214 provides for the suspension of Standing Orders. We have clearly accepted, from this end, that this Budget has some errors which have led to many amendments. This is an unprecedented scenario. Since 1964, we have never seen so many amendments. We have agreed to go along with the Executive because we have the same interest at heart. Is there no decency in coming back to the point where we requested that we follow Standing Order No. 214, which says:

“Any standing order may be suspended upon motion made after notice, except for Standing Orders which stem from any provision of the Constitution. If it is urgently necessary (of which the Speaker shall be the judge), any such order may be suspended upon motion made without notice?”

Sir, we still have an opportunity to make that Motion without notice rather than getting into special arrangements. Standing Order No. 87 reads:

        “In Committee of Supply, no amendments may be moved without notice.”

Further, Standing Order No. 115 says:

“(1)Members desiring to have proposed amendments to Bills placed upon the order paper must hand them, fairly written and signed by them, to the Clerk or deliver them to his or her office not later than 1430 hours on the day before that on which they are to appear.”

Clearly, there is a technical problem here with the way the Executive is doing things. Just like my colleagues, I think that the Executive wants to make us rubber stamps.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Let the hon. Member make his point.

Mr Nkombo: Can we, for once, do the correct thing that we have innocently asked for. We have not more than ten days before we finish debating this Budget. At the pace we are going, where is the malice in moving the amendment to drop the Standing Order so that when we come across errors such as what we saw as having been allocated on the wrong page under the Vote for the Ministry of Health, we could simply amend and move on.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to register my regret for having stood up to speak in the manner that I have, but I think that the people of Mazabuka Central sent me here to do the correct thing.

Hon Government Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Nkombo: Even if you are saying aah, aah, you know that what I am saying is factual. I will require that the special arrangement be revisited for the dignity of this House. We need to suspend the Standing Order because …

The Deputy Chairperson: May you, perhaps, come to the point. I have listened to you most patiently and you appear not to be coming to your point. What point are you making?

Mr Nkombo: Sir, the point I am making is that, are we in order to ignore the Standing Orders that govern our proceedings when we have clear routes to take when we have omissions such as the ones we have at the moment? 

I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Now, before you seek your ruling, I also seek clarification. What amendments are you referring to because I cannot see any amendments to the Vote that we are about to start looking at?

Mr Muntanga rose.

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Mr Muntanga resumed his seat.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Nkombo is on the Floor.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I will gladly respond. If we go to Loans and Investments, which is on the Order Paper, we shall not move and that is a fact. So, to be told that by special arrangement, cannot do, especially that we have an Order Paper which is supposed to be followed as per Standing Order that we have.

The Deputy Chairperson: After carefully considering your submission, which you have adequately articulated, my ruling is as follows: The Order Paper for today has four items, namely:

Head 46 – Ministry of Health

Head 21 – Loans and Investments – Ministry of Finance

Head 37 – Ministry of Finance

Head 76 – Ministry of Youth and Sport

Each of these Heads fall for consideration today and the ruling is that the Head that falls for consideration now is Head 76/01. As I said, the Head that we will be considering has no amendments at all. In relation to the Head that you referred to, Loans and Investments, the Chair is not aware of the amendments that you are talking about. So, the ruling is that we move to Vote 76/01 – Ministry of Youth and Sport – Headquarters.

  Vote 76 – Ministry of Youth and Sport (K76,680,532,276).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili): Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson, for affording me this opportunity to …

Mr Simbao left the Assembly Chamber.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Simbao, ethics do not demand anything. If you want to walk out, do so quietly. There is no campaigning for walkouts.

Hon. Minister, continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to deliver a policy statement to this august House in respect of the 2013 budget for the Ministry of Youth and Sport.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport in order to come to the House dressed in a pair of corduroy trousers or jeans, which is against the dress code? Standing Order of 2005 No. 207(1) states that the official dress for male Members of Parliament shall be a lounge suit, a pair of long trousers, a tie and jacket, toga or a safari suit (not khaki except uniform for Members of the Defence Forces) with long or short sleeves and a scarf or tie.

It is very specific. Hon. Members who have come dressed in a pair of corduroy trousers before have been sent out. Is he in order to come dressed in that manner?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Standing Order No. 207 which is applicable in this case is as follows:

“(1)    The official dress for male Members of Parliament shall be a lounge suit, a pair of long trousers, a tie and jacket, toga or a safari suit (not khaki except uniform for Members of the Defence Forces) with long or short sleeves and a scarf or tie.”

Now, what is excluded here expressly is khaki. 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I have not made a ruling. 

Ms Kalima: We will be coming in jeans.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Dorika.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Kalima, your voice is very distinctive. I would identify you even if I did not look where you are seated. 

Now, as the hon. Minister was reading the policy statement, I was facing my left, and not right. Is the hon. Minister dressed in a pair of khaki trousers?

Mr Kambwili rose up.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Sir, I want you to see me. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

There is no order for the exhibit to move.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: As I make the ruling, let me just emphasise that the dress code in this House is very strict. As much as that is not a pair of khaki trousers, the style looks like it is a pair of jeans trousers. For the purpose of us moving on with proceedings, I will exercise my discretion as I did the other day.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

There was an hon. Lady who was improperly dressed but, because we wanted to make progress, discretion was exercised in her favour. I am exercising discretion to allow the hon. Minister make his submission.

The hon. Minister can continue.

Hon. Government Members: Long live the Chair!

Mr Kambwili: Thank you very much, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The point has been made and I think we must not lose sight of that. Hon. Muntanga’s point of order is a very serious one. Each time before we come to the House, we must look at the type of attire we are wearing. Today, it is discretion that has saved the day.

The hon. Minister can proceed.

Mr Kambwili: Thank you very much, Sir. I am much obliged.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to deliver a policy statement to this august House in respect of the 2013 budget for the Ministry of Youth and Sport. My statement is divided into three parts. The first one is a mission statement of my ministry. The second is on the performance of the ministry in 2012 and the last part highlights the programmes to be implemented in 2013.

Mission Statement

According to the 2010/2014 Strategic Plan, the mission statement for my ministry is …

Hon. UPND Members left the Assembly Chamber.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Before you continue, those that want to go out, should do so quietly and should bear in mind that they came here to represent your constituents. 

So, if you want to go out, do so quietly. Do not force me to announce those who are walking out so that the constituents can know them.

The hon. Minister can continue.

Mr Kambwili: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson. 

According to the 2010/2014 Strategic Plan, the mission statement for my ministry is to effectively promote, co-ordinate and monitor youth and sports development and implementation, thereby contributing to sustainable socio-economic development for the benefit of the people of Zambia. This is against the realisation that the youths are part of the critical players in the socio-economic development of our country. They are not only the future leaders of this country, but are also a pool of the labour force which forms part of the engine which is needed to drive our country to economic and social prosperity for the wellbeing of the people of this country. In order to achieve this dream and goal, there is a need to integrate the youth in national development. This, therefore, forms the basis for the development of strategic programmes for youth development in line with the PF Manifesto. I also want to state that youth issues are crosscutting and should be addressed and monitored in all sectors. In this regard, my ministry will implement a programme on youth mainstreaming which shall be done in consultation with all sectors and other stakeholders. We shall develop guidelines and a checklist for youth mainstreaming. We shall follow up and monitor how the sectors are addressing youth issues in their programmes and their future plans in this regard.

Mr Chairperson, speaking for the Ministry of Youth and Sport, the House will recall that at the time the PF Government came into power, the year had almost ended and the Budget for 2012 had already been drawn by the previous Government. My ministry, under the PF, made adjustments, in line with the PF Manifesto, in order to improve programmes for youths and sport in the country.

Performance of Youth Development, skills development

In 2012, the ministry continued to provide training in vocational skills to the youth for their improved wellbeing. In this regard, 3,000 youth graduated from seventeen youth resource centres countrywide compared to 1,900 in 2011. They were trained in carpentry and joinery, brick laying, information and communication technology, auto mechanics, catering, tailoring and general agriculture.

Youth Development Fund

In 2012, K11.8 billion was provided for youth empowerment in terms of entrepreneurship and other income generating ventures. Due to the poor performance of the programme, and the need to address the root cause as well as the concern raised by the hon. Members of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC) to ensure sustainability of the programme, my ministry undertook a revision of the whole programme and thus, developed new and transparent guidelines.

 In order to achieve efficiency and equity, the funds were apportioned to all provinces based on population and poverty variables. The ministry has since started receiving the recommendations from the provinces for the disbursement of the funds. The youth in Eastern Province have already received their cheques for the various economic ventures. Cheques for the youth on the Copperbelt and Lusaka Province have been cut and will be disbursed during the course of the week, specifically, tomorrow morning for Lusaka Province and Thursday morning for the Copperbelt Province.

Skills Training/ Infrastructure Development

In 2012, K50 billion was provided for skills development. In the last four years, not even a single resource centre was constructed despite budget lines and the releasing of funds. This scenario is now history. Following our coming into power, tremendous progress has been made in this area. The ministry in collaboration with the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications has formulated standard designs and drawings for youth resource centres. A new modern youth resource centre is underway in Kafue District. The bill of quantities has been prepared, the tender was floated and awarded and construction is expected to commence before the end of the year. In addition, other centers are ready for rehabilitation or construction. The delay in implementation is attributed to the process of preparing bills of quantities and procurement procedures.

Performance in Sport Development, Regional and Continental Games, the Africa Cup of Nations

Mr Chairperson, for the first time ever in the history of this country, our senior national team lifted the AFCON trophy in Gabon.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: This followed the massive financial support to the national team by the PF Government in the sum of approximately K12 billion as compared to K210 million budgeted by the previous Government for the AFCON. The success brought joy and honour and, indeed, unified the nation. From the tournament, the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) received a sum of US$2 million part of which was spent on the purchase of land on the Copperbelt where the association will construct a centre of excellence in football.

Infrastructure Development/Commission of Levy Mwanawasa Stadium

Mr Chairperson, on 2nd June, 2012, the PF Government commissioned the Levy Mwanawasa Stadium in Ndola with a capacity of forty thousand seats. The ministry has since put in place an interim management team for the facility while the modalities for the long term are being worked on. May I pay tribute to the late President, Levy Mwanawasa, for initiating the construction of this modern stadium. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili:  Infrastructure for the Hosting of the Supreme Council for Sports Zone Six under twenty games

Mr Chairperson, the hosting of the Zone Six Games was approved by the previous Government in 2011. Thus, K3.5 billion was set aside to rehabilitate the National Sports Development Complex (NASDEC), the Olympic Youth Development Centre and the Olympic Pool, but no works were undertaken by the previous administration. Consequently, this development negatively affected the preparations. There were delays in the construction and rehabilitation works. However, in 2012 when the PF Government embarked on serious preparations for these games, the bill of quantities was prepared, tenders invited and awarded within record time. As a result, a new Olympic type swimming pool has been constructed at the Olympic Youth Development Center. The student hostels at the University of Zambia (UNZA) are being rehabilitated and works will be completed soon.

Further, rehabilitation works have been undertaken at the National Sports Development Complex, Olympic Youth Development Centre, Nkoloma Stadium and Sunset Stadium. The total cost for all the infrastructure construction and rehabilitation works has come to K105 billion. The PF Government will be able to host the games from 4th to 17th December, 2012.

Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that when we started these constructions detractors told us that what we were doing was just another story and that we not going to host the games. I told the nation clearly that my team and I have never started a crusade and failed. True to our word, next week, we shall be hosting these games successfully. 

Mr Chairperson, I do not remember when the country ever hosted an international event of such magnitude and importance. However, I do recall that on two occasions, Zambia failed to host international sports events among them the Africa Cup of Nations and the All Africa Games in 2011 which were shifted to Mozambique. This development is a positive one and K4 billion in 2012 for administrative purpose. 

Mr Kambwili paused and shuffled his papers

Mr Kambwili: Page 10 is missing.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Member: Page 10 is missing.

Mr Mubukwanu handed a paper to Mr Kambwili.

Mr Kambwili: Thank you very much. 

Mr Chairperson, I am sorry about that. There was a page missing.

Mr Muntanga: Do not worry, we are used to that.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: This is a positive development and demonstrates the Government’s commitment to the promotion and enhancement of the country’s competitiveness in the area of sport.

Programme for 2013

Mr Chairperson, in 2013, the ministry will continue to consolidate its achievement in order to maintain the momentum.

Youth Development

In the area of youth development, the focus will be on youth empowerment, skills development and linking graduates to industry and markets.

Youth Development Fund

In 2013, K19.1 billion has been provided in order to support youth enterprises compared to K11.8 billion in 2012. This represents an increase of 42 per cent. Of this money, K12 billion will be a revolving fund as compared to K6.7 billion in 2012, K3.78 billion for grants as compared to K4 billion in 2012 and K2.8 billion has been set aside for administrative purposes as compared to K1.1 billion in 2012.

The hon. Members of this august House may wish to know that more resources have been committed to the revolving fund. This is because the PF Government wants to cultivate a culture of borrowing and the sense of paying back as well as to allow as many youth as possible to access the facility in order to ensure its sustainability.

Mr Chairperson, it must be noted that I want to give out the cheques transparently. I have warned the recipients that whoever is not going to pay jele. That means whoever does not pay back will go to prison.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Infrastructure development

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, K10 billion has been provided in the 2013 Budget compared to K11 billion in 2012. These funds will be used to construct two youth resources centres. This will bring the total number of youth resource centres from seventeen to approximately twenty-five in 2013. Bear in mind that we are still constructing some youth resource centres that were provided for in the 2012 Budget. The PF policy is to construct at least one vocational training centre in each district and I can assure you that the Government will endeavour to fulfil this objective. This development will go a long way to empower the youths with the necessary skills for both self and formal employment. 

Skills development

Mr Chairperson, the policy of the PF Government is to integrate the youths in the country’s socio-economic development. One approach is to empower them with the appropriate knowledge and necessary skills for them to engage in wealth and job creation. In this regard, K453 million has been provided in the 2013 Budget. In addition, we have increased the allocation to youth resource centres from K1.5 billion in 2012 to 3.6 billion in 2013. This represents an increase of slightly over 100 per cent. The target for the ministry is to train 4,000 youths in 2013.

Transition from skills development to market and industry

Mr Chairperson, it has been observed that despite the acquisition of skills from various institutions, many youths still face the challenge of breaking into the industries. This programme is designed to facilitate the entry of the youth into industries or other economic ventures and to help them access markets for their produce. In this regard, K1.05 billion has been provided in the 2013 Budget. The target is to facilitate the entry of 400 graduates into the markets and industries.

Sports development

Mr Chairperson, in the area of sports development, K12.3 billion has been provided in the 2013 Budget for infrastructure development compared to K9.7 billion that was provided in 2012. This represents a 21 per cent increase. These funds will be applied for the construction of new buildings and the rehabilitation of sports infrastructure in the country. The following are the works to be undertaken in 2013:

(i)construction of Chinsali Sports Complex at the total cost of K5 billion;

(ii)preparatory work for the construction of the Livingstone Stadium at an initial cost of K3 billion;

(iii)construction of a car park at Lusaka Stadium at the cost of K800 million;

(iv)construction of a car park at Levy Mwanawasa Stadium at the cost of K1.5 billion;

(v)rehabilitation of Maramba Stadium at the cost of K1 billion;

(vi)rehabilitation of David Kaunda Stadium in Chipata at the cost of K500 million; and 

(vii)rehabilitation of Mongu Stadium at a cost of K500 million. We also hope to build a modern stadium in Mongu in future.

Talent identification

Mr Chairperson, the country lacks a competitive edge in many sports disciplines other than soccer. This was demonstrated at the All Africa Games in Mozambique and especially the London Olympic Games were Zambia did not win any medal. The focus in 2013 is to change the status quo by moving towards enhancing competitiveness in the area of sport in general. In this regard, K2.4 billion has been provided in 2013 for identifying and nurturing talent in all parts of our country at different levels. Three hundred and forty million will be for provincial team selections and development, K1.5 billion will be for hosting the National Sports Festival and K524 million will be spent to establish a Centre of Excellence and technical skills development in this country.  This clearly demonstrates the Government’s commitment to address the lack of competitiveness in many sports disciplines. 

Participation in AFCON 2013 in South Africa

The AFCON will take place in the Republic of South Africa from January to February, 2013. Currently, we are the champions. We will be going to South Africa to defend the trophy. In this regard, K5.02 billion has been provided in the 2013 Budget as start-up for the preparations. I would like to appeal to all soccer loving fraternities and the corporate world to come on board to supplement the Government’s efforts to help our gallant boys. I would like to urge them to defend the cup and I assure them of the Government’s support. Let me take this opportunity to thank Stanbic Bank which took the lead by contributing K50 million towards the preparations of the national team.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to conclude my statement by emphasising my ministry’s commitment to youth and sports development in this country and the need for all sectors to integrate youth development in their programmes in order for us to make a significant impact in addressing the plight of the youths.

Mr Chairperson, my statement this afternoon, is non-political and non-controversial. I appeal to hon. Members of Parliament to support the estimates of revenue and expenditure for my ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to say a few words on this Vote which I reluctantly support.

Mr Chairperson, my worry is that the hon. Minister is in the habit of condemning the MMD. In fact, he must appreciate the MMD because he is in that chair because of the MMD.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Chairperson, he is in that office because of the MMD. He is a lucky hon. Minister because he found that everything had been done for him.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chairperson, whatever programmes people are following in this ministry were left by the MMD.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Chairperson, let me pose a question. If you marry a woman, then divorce her when she is pregnant and then she gets married to another man and later gives birth, whose child is that?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You may proceed.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Chairperson, this is a question which begs an answer. The hon. Minister is condemning the MMD by saying that it did not do any thing and that the Zone Six Games are for the PF Government. I think that is contrary to the truth. The agreement for these games was signed last year in May while the MMD was still in office.

Mr Chairperson, we never failed in our efforts to prepare for the games. In fact, for you to have an agreement made with the Zone Six Games Chairperson, you must show that you have the money. Therefore, it is not correct that we left only K3 billion. The K3 billion was meant to start the programmes such as the construction of the NASDEC and other infrastructure. The money was not for the entire programme. If the MMD Government did not have money, …

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Please, allow him to debate.

Mr Chipungu: … the Zone Six Games would not have come to Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about the issue of wining the AFCON Trophy. It was the efforts of the MMD Government which made it possible. I have said this before. It is not possible for the national team to suddenly start winning within a month of the PF Government coming to power. It is not like that. It is a process. It was not the question of fighting …

Mr Mwaliteta: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Chairperson, I am sorry for disturbing the hon. Member on Floor, who is my blood brother. Is he in order to insinuate that the MMD Government made the Chipolopolo boys win the AFCON when the same team, the same coach and the same captain lost in Angola?

The Chairperson: Order!

To the extent that the competition started long before September, 2011, the hon. Member is in order.

Please, continue, Hon. Chipungu.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Interruptions 

Mr Chipungu: Mr Chairperson, I want to repeat that the success that the PF Government is now witnessing and trying to attribute to its efforts was actually initiated by the MMD. For example, the Levy Mwanawasa Stadium in Ndola was constructed by the MMD. The same goes for the Lusaka Stadium, the Olympic Youth Development Centre and the youth centres that the hon. Minister was talking about.

Mr Kalaba: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kalaba: Mr Chairperson, I stand up reluctantly after carefully listening to the hon. Member’s debate which is, somehow, flawed. Is Hon. Chipungu in order to keep referring to some of the achievements that the MMD might have scored, instead of addressing or limiting himself to the policy issues which were presented by the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport? Is he in order to continue misleading the nation that his party did whatever it did even after it was kicked out of power by the people?  

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

To the extent that nobody is misled, he is in order.

Please, continue, Hon. Chipungu.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Chairperson, it is important for me to justify what the MMD Government did. It is not good for the hon. Minister to be attacking the previous Government each time he stands up to speak.

Sir, the Ministry of Youth and Sport is important. In fact, it is more important than the Ministry of Health, so to speak, because it has a larger following. We are talking about 68 per cent of the population of this country. These are the young men and women who need to be supported. 

I am still very disappointed, Mr Chairperson, with the low funding to this ministry. Our colleagues on your right had preached so much that, when they came into the Government, they would fund this ministry adequately. However, you can see that the funding is still inadequate. The Youth Empowerment Fund remains a meagre K11 billion.

Sir, there is a need to increase funding to this ministry because there are so many important programmes that need to be implemented. You have issues of the youth resource centres which the MMD Government left in place. Like the hon. Minister indicated, you need, at least, one resource centre per district. Now that we have almost 100 districts, a lot of money is needed. We also have sports infrastructure, such as stadiums which require to be maintained using a lot of money. The Department of the Youth equally requires quite a lot of money. I, therefore, suggest that the funding to this ministry is increased to not less than K500 billion. Otherwise, giving it less than K100 billion does not make any sense at all.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali (Senenga): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Vote on the Floor of the House.

Sir, firstly, I would like to correct hon. Members who are referring to stadia as stadiums. There is nothing like stadiums in English. There is only ‘stadia’. 

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: ‘Stadia’ is the plural.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

We are debating in a foreign language. Please, take that into account and continue.

Laughter 

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, the problem I have with the Ministry of Youth and Sport is with the little resources that it always gets. This ministry is huge and important because it looks into the future of our youths. Looking at the way our youths, today, and with the resources that are being given to them, I think, we are getting nowhere. There is a need for the PF Government to pay attention to the youths because it is they who are very dangerous if not handled properly.

Sir, the problem I have, between the previous Government and the current one, is that they are both crying for a dead body. Each of them is claiming that this and that is theirs. However, the issue is that we need to look forward rather than claim that they did this and that. 

Mr Chairperson, we need to move forward, and the way forward in the Ministry of Youth and Sport is to cover the whole country. The urban bias that was practised by the previous Government is what is going on with the PF Government. 

Hon. Member: Pracatised?

Mr Mufalali: If you look at what the hon. Minister has put in the Yellow Book, much of the infrastructure will be given to urban centres. I have seen the car parks for Ndola and Livingstone, but there is nothing for the rural youths. 

Sir, the urban bias that we are seeing is not good for our youths and needs to be reversed. Otherwise, if the trend continues like this, there is nothing for us. The swimming pools are all in Lusaka, Ndola and other urban centres. The best swimmers are in Senanga, but you have not given them these facilities. All these facilities …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member is making a very important point.

Please, continue.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, the swimming pools that are being built are all based in Lusaka. That has been the trend for the past forty-eight years. The swimming pools and sports complexes have been built right in urban areas. What about in the rural areas? When will the people there start practising swimming? It is important for the Ministry of Youth and Sport to move to rural areas and put sports and recreational infrastructure for the benefit of the youths.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to ask the hon. Minister to place these resource centres in one of the rural districts that have not yet benefited from them even as he looks at the K10 billion that is meant for resources centres. One example is Senanga, which has got no resource centre.

Mr Chairperson, Senanga has got no vocational training centre and we are looking up to the hon. Minister to ensure that we receive, at least, one of them. Further, in terms of empowerment, I have noticed that the ministry is focusing on labour intensive skills development. It seems that it wants to do more training in manual skills. However, I feel that there is a shift towards information communication technology (ICT) the world over. It is high time the ministry thought about coming up with centres that can train the youth in ICT, especially in the rural areas, so that they can also start learning how to use computers and develop software.

Sir, if we only focus on manual skills, we will not gain many benefits from our youth. If they are given an opportunity to use computers and understand some of these ICT applications, they will be able to develop systems and hardware, which will be of benefit to the country. 

Mr Chairperson, the ministry should also pay attention to gender-based violence (GBV) amongst the youth. I was looking at the statistics released by the Child Fund and concluded that there is a need for the ministry to get down to the level of the youths and know some of the challenges that they are facing. It is important to protect the youth in cases of GBV and sexual harassment. All I see in this ministry are two departments. However, I think that it would be wise to expand it to include a section or department that will deal with GBV among the youth.

Sir, the other issue is that of early marriages. The statistics show that some youths are getting married from as young as fifteen to nineteen years, which is not pleasing. Out of those, we are told that about 1,600 have divorced while 3,000 are on separation. The hon. Minister has to ensure that the ministry assists youths who find themselves in this situation. I believe that education is the best form of empowerment that the ministry can give to the youth. Without education, our youth will not progress. It is important for the ministry to ensure that it does not just promote sport, but also education. The levels of education that we have in the Western Province are low and can give rise to a very dangerous society. 

Mr Chairperson, they say that familiarity breeds contempt. We should not become too familiar with things to the extent that we accept the status quo. We need to pay more attention to this ministry before it is too late. The youth are becoming dangerous. They have become so desperate that the PF has taken advantage of them and uses them at rallies and church services to intimidate people. 

Hon. Government Members: Aah, Question!

Mr Mufalali: They need to change because the youth deserve better. That is the reason I said that the PF is walking in the same path as the previous Government, instead of changing. I believe that the hon. Minister is serious although some of the hon. Members of the PF are not as serious with these issues and that is the reason they are heckling. The PF needs to resolve these issues. Otherwise, they will come back to haunt the party and we will not allow it to complain because, currently, its members are the ones driving better vehicles. The youth need a saviour and that saviour is the Ministry of Youth and Sport. Failure to address the challenges will bring a lot of chaos.

Sir, with those few remarks, I would like thank you for giving me the opportunity to say these few words. However, the PF needs to stop heckling and realise that it requires advice from specialist individuals like me.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the Motion and the Budget of the Ministry of Sport and Youth. I would like to speak for and on behalf of Lupososhi Constituency and Luingu District, as a whole.

Mr Chairperson, no one has the monopoly of ideas or wisdom. When you take over the reins of power, it is important to do an analysis and see what you can discard and what you can carry on so as to build on what has been left. The PF has done so and carried on the good things that the MMD left. We heard what Hon. Chipungu said. We acknowledge that we have carried on with the good things of the MMD and we will complete them because that is what leadership demands.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Bwalya! 

Mr Bwalya: It is important for us to look at issues from both sides. We know that the MMD took over the reigns of power in 1991 and took over certain things that, if they had carried on with, we would not have been where we are today.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Sir, I will mention a few. The MMD took over the Cooporative Movement, which was doing very well. However, it was buried because it had a United National Independence Party (UNIP) connotation. We are also aware that Zambia Railways, which we are trying to rebuild, was taken over by the MMD, but later discarded. Today, we want to start re-building it. Good things should be carried on. I am sure that His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, saw that the construction of roads was a good thing. Therefore, we will carry on with that. We do not want to create a situation in which we will start going backwards because the railway line would have been in better shape if it was well looked after.

Mr Chairperson, the Youth Policy needs to be reviewed. The youth empowerment that we always hear and talk about has not benefited the people of Lubansenshi and Lupososhi constituencies in Luwingu District. The youths of Kaputa, Chifunabuli and many other constituencies have not benefited from this youth empowerment. This is because of the tedious requirements. They are unable to come up with the business plans that are demanded of them to access those funds. You need to address that issue seriously. Unfortunately, the majority of our youths are not educated enough to articulate issues and fill in the forms that have been introduced. This has actually disadvantaged the rural youths. It is time we addressed that issue so that youths in Luwingu, Samfya and Chilubi can be able to access these funds. 

Mr Chairperson, sport is yet another aspect that we need to critically develop because we have a bias towards certain sports, and yet there are other sports that can easily help curb some vices that youths engage in. For example, in my area, there is a game called nsolo. The youths play this game a lot and it keeps them away from mischief. We need to conduct a bit of research and see which sport we can fund so that it can be revived in the rural areas. 

Sir, the other issue is what you ably debated, and this is the synergies between the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and the Ministry of Youth and Sport. We want to see the re-introduction of inter-schools sports because this brings various schools together and competition in various sports disciplines. This helps to develop not only the brains of the youths, but also their physical being as well.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Let us consult less noisily, please. I cannot follow the debate. 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Chairperson, I urge the hon. Minister to work very closely with Hon. Dr John Phiri in the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education so that we can come up with such activities. We used to have inter-school sports and that is how the late John Lungu and many others were discovered. If that can be revived and funded properly, we can be a vibrant sporting nation on the African Continent.

Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I thank you. 

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I will only debate for less than five minutes. 

Sir, firstly, I would like to say that I support the Vote. Secondly, I also want to lodge my complaint over the Livingstone Stadium. This issue has been long overdue. I remember before the 2010 World Cup, the priority was to work on the Livingstone Stadium, followed by the Lusaka Stadium and, finally, the Ndola Stadium. Unfortunately, that issue has been turned upside down. My appeal to the hon. Minister is that this should be considered a priority. He has mentioned that there is K3 billion that has been allocated for the preparatory works for the Livingstone Stadium. 

Mr Chairperson, lastly, I want to talk about our national team. The victory this year was very sweet and I am still celebrating. We have come a long way. We made our first appearance in 1974. In 1994, so near and yet so far, we lost. This year, we made it again. Whatever will be there in January and February, the fact is that we are already in the books of history and whatever will happen is ‘che sera sera’.

Laughter

Mr Mooya: Mr Chairperson, we have a very good coach and players. I cannot see them losing this cup. I am very confident that the cup will come back to Zambia. What is important here is discipline. Let the players work under the instructions of the coach. I would be very sad if what happened in 1996 in South Africa repeated itself. We reached the quarter-finals, but lost to Tunisia due to excitement. After beating Egypt, the players started drinking beer. My prayer is that we maintain the discipline that we had in West Africa. Good luck to Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, first and foremost, I would like to thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to and supported the Vote. I also want to thank those who have silently supported the Vote. I just want to comment on a few issues that have been raised by the debaters. 

Sir, I want to start with Hon. Chipungu’s contribution. There is a saying in English that states, “He who does not know and knows not that he knows not, is a fool forever, but he who knows that he knows not is a fool for five minutes”. Accepting one’s mistakes in life is very important order for one to make amends. If you cannot accept that you made mistakes and continue to deny them, it is not fair not only to others, but also to yourself because you will not improve on your failures. I would appeal to my honourable very good friend who I consult time and again because he was in this office to, at least, change for the better. 

Hon. Chipungu said the hosting of the Zone Six Games was a success for the MMD Government. To the contrary, when I took office, there was no rehabilitation of any kind that was done. How, then, do you claim for success over something that was not done? Even the K3 billion that was in the Budget was not released. So, why should you claim the success? Learn to accept the fact that you erred so that you can change for the better. If you continue with such claims, the people of Zambia will not give you another mandate. You will continue being in the Opposition and will rot there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, let me remind Hon. Chipungu of the failures of the MMD Government. In 2011, when I was a member of the Committee on Youth and Sport, they failed to host the All Africa Games and no infrastructure was rehabilitated. How, then, were they going to rehabilitate the infrastructure this year? Therefore, we should learn to accept our failures.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Chipungu also referred to the fact that there is no change that has taken place in the ministry in terms of fund allocation. Let me remind him that when he was an hon. Minister, the Budget allocation to the ministry was K42 billion and the allocation to this ministry, this year, is K76,680,532,276.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Surely, one can tell that there is a big increment in the allocation to the ministry. Can you then say that there is no change in terms of finances? We should learn to call a spade a spade and not call a spade a pick for the sake of creating an impression.

Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, in 2008 and 2009, the money that was allocated for youth empowerment was only K2 billion for each year. Last year, the PF Government provided K11.8 billion and, this year, we have provided K19.1 for youth empowerment.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Surely, can one say there is no change? Let us be fair with each other. We accept criticism, but it should have a basis. Therefore, I expect my friend, Hon. Chipungu, to be fair. 

Hon. Mufalali, I hear you. Funding to the ministry is low but, I think, you must realise that there are a lot of other challenging issues in the nation. We were just debating the Vote for the Ministry of Health and we heard some hon. Members say that we still have certain prescriptions which are not being adninistered. Therefore, as we allocate the national cake, we must be wary and share it equitably among other needs of the economy.

Mr Chairperson, he also indicated that we are urban biased in infrastructure development more especially when it comes to the construction of resource centres. To the contrary, most of the seventeen resource centres that we have are located in the rural areas. I have gone round the country and still going round to identify land in the rural areas where we can build more resource centres. Our bias over resource centres is actually to go, as much as possible, to the rural areas. You are from the Western Province and we are planning to construct a stadium in that province. So, please, just give us matotela (a clap).

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: What is that?

Mr Kambwili: Praise us. I told you earlier that I have never started a crusade and failed. So, you watch the space. I am urging you, Hon. Mufalali, to go to your council and identify land where we can build a resource centre.

Mr Chairperson, with regard to ICT, we will be buying a lot of computers in the resource centres and, once we put up a resource centre in your area, let me rest assure you that computer training will be one of those trainings which will be provided. Hon. Bwalya, I thank you very much. We did an analysis and concluded that we cannot discard good programmes. We will continue with them. Those programmes that we feel have not been correctly done will be implemented in line with the PF Manifesto. By the way, we are not condemning the MMD. When we talk about the mistakes they made, all we are trying to do is learn from them and ensure that we do not make the same mistakes in future. We should identify the weaknesses of the previous Government so that we can build on them and make a positive contribution. The MMD did certain positive things and we appreciate that. In a nutshell, let me thank all the hon. Members who have …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1956 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 28th November, 2012.