Friday, 21st June, 2019

Friday, 21^st June, 2019

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

BRIEFING BY THE ELECTORAL COMMISSION OF ZAMBIA ON THE 2019 DELIMITATION OF CONSTITUENCIES, WARDS AND POLLING DISTRICTS IN READINESS FOR THE 2021 GENERAL ELECTIONS

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) will be conducting the 2019 delimitation exercise of constituencies, wards and polling districts in readiness for the 2021 General Elections.

In this regard, the ECZ will hold a half day briefing with all hon. Members of Parliament on Wednesday, 26^th June, 2019, in the Amphitheatre at Parliament Buildings, starting at 0900 hours. I urge all hon. Members to attend this very important meeting.

Thank you.

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an indication of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 25^th June, 2019, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer.

This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate Motions to adopt the following reports:

Report of the Committee on Agriculture, Lands and Natural Resources; and

Report of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 26^th June, 2019, the Business of the House will start with Questions for Oral Answer. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then the House will debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Media, Information and Communication Technologies.

Sir, on Thursday, 27^th June 2019, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate Motions to adopt the following reports:

Report of the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs; and

Report of the Committee on Education, Science and Technology.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 28^th June, 2019, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time. Thereafter, the House will consider Questions for Oral Answer. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances.

I thank you, Sir.

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THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to pose a very important question to Her Honour the Vice-President. Her Honour the Vice- President will recall that we had raised the issue pertaining to the declaration of the hunger situation a national disaster. She did indicate that she had no intention of doing that because the Government has all the resources and maize to provide for our people.

Mr Speaker, after that statement was made by Her Honour the Vice-President, the Catholic bishops through the Bishop of Mongu, Bishop Chinyemba called on the Government to declare the hunger situation in Lusaka Province, Central Province, Western Province and Southern Province a national disaster. They have brought out information that the people in these areas are surviving on wild fruits. There is no food that they can easily access and the Government is not providing it. The Catholic Bishops –

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, resume your seat.

Hon. Members on the right, unfortunately, you do not have a role to assist me.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: Shame!

Mr Speaker: Leave it to my judgement. That is why I am here. We should not be anxious over matters of this sort. Let us be tolerant of each other.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, thank you for your protection. This is a very important issue. That is why I am raising it on behalf of the people of Zambia.

Sir, as I indicated, complementing our request to the Government, the Catholic Bishops are requesting the Government to declare the hunger situation a national disaster. Will the Government heed the call by the Catholic Bishops to declare the hunger situation in the country a national disaster?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, the Catholic Bishops may have their own opinion on the hunger situation in the country. We do realise that the Catholic Church is all over the country and in touch with the people. However, this does not warrant the Government to declare a state of hunger in the country because we know that we have adequate stocks of food, including the carryover from the last season.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Additionally, we expect to access more maize, in particular, during this coming marketing season.

Sir, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) has started distributing relief food to affected districts and this is well publicised. I have requested the DMMU to give us a breakdown next week of where the relief food is being distributed, that is in which wards, constituencies and districts so that the hon. Members of this House can have a full picture of what is happening. We have said before that no one in this country will die from hunger. I still repeat that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga): Mr Speaker, Senanga District is one of the biggest and oldest districts in the Western Province, yet it has never seen a single township road from the time of Sir Roy Welensky.

Laughter

Mr Mukumbuta: The people of Senanga have resolved to compel the Government to bring development nearer to them by using a different approach and methodology. They want to petition the Government, particularly President Edgar Lungu, to split the district into two. Will the Government prove that it still loves the people of Senanga by giving them a new district?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is criteria that the Government follows to create new districts. As a matter of fact, another district was created out of Senanga. That is Nalolo District. At the moment, I do not think that the Government has plans to create another district out of Senanga.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) ...

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabompo, resume your seat. Hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources, resume your seat as well.

My established practice now is to avoid points of order during this section because if I do not, and I have said this before, we will not make progress. I immunise this segment from points of order.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the FIC, which is a creation of this House, is a watchdog institution against corruption and fraud. It has recently reported that K6.1 billion has been fraudulently obtained by people or persons who are politically exposed who are known by the Government. Instead of those in the Government supporting this report, we have seen them rubbishing it. However, the founding father of the PF Government said he was allergic to corruption and the Government continues to say it is fighting corruption. How does the Government’s action in rubbishing such an important document detailing corruption augur well with the pronouncement that it is allergic to it? Is this more bark than bite? Are they just there to woof-woof or are they there to bite? What is their position?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabompo, there are two things. First of all, substitute the word ‘rubbish’ for a more parliamentary word and, secondly, please withdraw that expression, whatever it means. I do not know how the Hansard will reflect that.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, thank you for your counsel. I withdraw the expression wolf-wolf and replace it with ‘is it more bark than bite’?

Mr Speaker: And rubbish?

Mr Lufuma: I withdraw the word ‘rubbish’ and substitute it with ‘ignore’.

Mr Speaker: Very well.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Financial Intelligence Centre (FIC) is a creation of Government. There is no way the Government can, to use the hon. Member’s word, ‘rubbish’ its own creation.

Mr Mwiinga: The word was withdrawn.

The Vice-President: The FIC is one of the investigative wings of the Government. We have created these institutions to promote democracy and ensure that corruption is fought in the country as well as that money laundering, terrorism and all these evils are gotten rid of. The FIC is one of those units, but not the final one. Whatever has come out of that report will be taken to the rightful agencies so that the matters are investigated. In fact, some of the issues that were raised in that report are already in the courts of law. So I do not see the reason people should be so hyper about this report.

Mr Speaker, because this is such a serious matter, the hon. Minister of Finance will come to the House to explain in detail what the Government meant by objecting to some of the ways in which this institution is operating.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mubika (Shang’ombo): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President what the position of the Government is on the Programme Against Discrimination in Communities (PADIC) Project to set up a sugarcane plantation in Limulunga District in the Western Province. I saw this information in the newspapers last month. This project should have been in Shang’ombo. The then hon. Minister of the province, Hon. Mubukwanu said that he was not aware of that project, but now it has been reported in the Government newspapers that the project has shifted to Limulunga District of the Western Province. What is the position of the Government on this matter, and why has the project shifted from Shang’ombo to Limulunga?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I have not read about this project, but all I know is that when this project started in Shang’ombo, it was initiated by a private individual. That is why the Government indicated that the project had not been brought to its notice. However, the provincial administration will be informed about the project when it takes root, or if it is still being negotiated. We are all waiting to know more about this project and how it will help the province to alleviate poverty. We will leave it to the promoters of the project to inform the Government on how they want to go about it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the people of Kalabo, especially those in Mitu Ward and N’guma Ward, are dying of hunger. There is great starvation there. The interest is not in the food which is in the sheds. My concern is that this food is not reaching the people. What measures are being put in place by the Government to make sure that the food which the Government said is in sheds does not stay there to gather dust?

Mr Speaker: Just mind your finger.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Indeed, withdraw the finger.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: We want the maize to reach the people in Mitu Ward and N’guma Ward who are eating wild fruits, berries and roots. What measures has the Government put in place to enable this maize, which is gathering dust in the sheds –

Mr Speaker: I think you are now repeating yourself.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government will be grateful to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central if he provides the names of people who have died of hunger in N’guma Ward and Mitu Ward.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

The Vice-President: I say this because I know that Kalabo ...

Mr Speaker: Order on the left!

The Vice-President: ... is one of the most serviced districts when it comes to the distribution of relief food by the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). If the issue is about the movement of food within the constituency or wards, the DMMU will deal with it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chikote (Luampa): Mr Speaker, the situation in the education sector mostly in rural constituencies is so alarming. In schools, our children are sitting on the floor and logs cut from the bush. What is the Government doing about this situation? I am seeing the Government spending money on issues that are not a priority, especially by-elections.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not see the connection between children sitting on the floor in a class room and by-elections which are a constitutional issue. For example, we are going into a by-election in Katuba. I do not think we all expected that to happen. Due to the demise of our colleague, we have to be subjected to a by-election. This is not the making of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. It is a constitutional mandate.

Mr Speaker, coming to the issue of desks, for the first time in the history of this country, we have seen hon. Members of Parliament receive K1.6 million as the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) in some constituencies. Some of this money can be used to make desks. In fact, the Ministry of General Education has embarked on a programme to make desks within the districts. So, you do not have to wait for the Government to get things such as desks for the school children in your schools.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let us be terse in the questions. I have noticed that long-winding and repetitive questions are being forward. Let us get to the point so that we accommodate as many hon. Members as possible.

Mr Kangombe (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, last year in July, Her honour the Vice-President indicated on the Floor of this House that the works on the Sesheke/Livingstone Road had been funded. This year, in February, I saw works being done on the road. Unfortunately, immediately after the by-election in Sesheke, the works stalled. I would like to find out where the money for the road project is, and what led to the stalling of the project?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am pleased to note that the new hon. Member of Parliament is acknowledging that the Government had started work on the Livingstone/Sesheke Road and that works have stalled. When funds are made available, the works will start again.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, the country recently held a very successful National Dialogue Forum (NDF), where we had three –

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, for those who never came, the country held a very successful NDF where we had three key draft Bills, namely the draft Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2019 –

Hon. UPND Members interjected.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Bwana Mkubwa, resume your seat.

Hon. Members, let him ask a question.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Continue, hon. Member.

Dr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I thank you. The country just held a very successful NDF where we had the draft Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2019, the draft Electoral Process (Amendment) Bill, 2019 and the draft Public Order (Amendment) Bill, 2019, yet we have seen a coalition of Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) and their political backers who refused to come to the NDF, misleading Zambians that nothing happened at the forum. What advice will Her Honour the Vice-President give to those noise makers who never attended this forum?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the NDF was an opportunity for Zambians to put their heads together to see how they can improve the governance of this country by amending certain provisions of the Constitution that seem to hinder our progress.

Mr Livune: Question!

The Vice-President: I think those who decided to stay away from this dialogue missed a very wonderful opportunity.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, opposing even good issues for the sake of opposing is so retrogressive. As hon. Members of Parliament, we should take leadership to show our people that we care for them …

Mr Livune: Question!

The Vice-President: … and understand their cries, and that we try to address some of their concerns.

Mr Speaker, this matter will be brought to Parliament through different Bills, and that will be an opportunity for all of us to …

Mr Nkombo: Question! Question mama!

Laughter

The Vice-President: … interrogate those Bills and provisions so that we come up with a consensus on how this country should move with a good amended Constitution.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Evg. Shabula (Itezhi-Tezhi): Mr Speaker, the hunger situation in this country is a serious concern to many people. On Monday, I will be holding a meeting with the people of Itezhi-Tezhi. Their interest is to know when food will be taken to them. What do I tell them?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it will be in the best interest of the hon. Member of Parliament for Itezhi-Tezhi to pass through the Disaster Mitigation and Management Unit (DMMU) offices to get the latest report and information on the arrangements for food distribution in the area. Some hon. Members of Parliament are highlighting the issue of hunger in a certain way perhaps to attract the attention of their voters because the situation is –

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Your Honour the Vice-President, just give me a moment. Hon. Members, you cannot interject whilst seated. You know it very well. There is a way of engaging.

Continue, Your Honour the Vice-President.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the in-depth assessment of the hunger situation in the country has just been concluded, and we are going through it. All the districts in the country have been visited, and a report is being compiled currently to understand what is happening and where the hunger situation is more severe. So, the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi should be assured that the DMMU will reach out to the people of Itezhi-Tezhi. I advise him to pass through the offices of the DMMU.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, of late, there have been calls for the legislation of lifestyle auditing with notable support coming from senior Ruling Party officials. What is the position of the Government on this matter, especially that the Financial Intelligence Centre Act and the Anti-Corruption Act are in place?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament make declarations before they even take their seats in Parliament. Each one of us is known for what we have and what we owe banks or financial institutions. Therefore, I do not think there is need for that audit to take place because we cannot only audit the hon. Ministers as some people try to portray, unless we audit all the people in the country, which is not possible. To those in business, parastatals, Cabinet and Parliament, this is a tall order, and I do not think it is possible for the Government to undertake this exercise.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakubo (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, in the last few weeks, the Government had the audacity to distribute pamela mealie-meal packs, which are small packets of mealie-meal about 12.5 kg, to employees of the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA). This was done under the Office of the Vice-President. This has brought a reaction from the workers of TAZARA. They are wondering why the Government is giving them small packets of mealie meal as opposed to just paying them their four months arrears in salaries. The long and short of it is: When does the Government intend to pay salaries for these workers so that they can pay their rentals, buy groceries, pay school fees, electricity and water bills as opposed to giving them 12.5 kg packets of mealie meal? What an embarrassment. May the Government please provide an answer to TAZARA workers.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there could be some vulnerable people staying in the vicinity of the Tanzania-Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA) Compound. I am sure that the TAZARA retirees are happy if some of their relatives who are vulnerable can receive mealie meal. The good thing about the mealie meal distribution is that it is not only about giving one small packet to a household. It is about distributing a12 kg bag of mealie meal to every member of the household. Surely, that is a big Government consideration. The issue of the TAZARA retirees’ remuneration will be handled by the hon. Minister of Transport and Communication and hon. Minister of Finance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, two weeks ago, I was in Kaputa. The crossing point on one of the roads linking Nsama and Kaputa has broken down. The people of Kaputa requested me to bring this question to the Government. I want to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President when the people of Kaputa will be looked at in order to ensure that their lives are safeguarded when using this road.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the road which the hon. Member for Kaputa is referring to. As a matter of fact, works are earmarked to start during the month of July this year. The people of Kaputa should be assured of the Government’s interest in their welfare by repairing that road.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, as at the month end of May, 2019, there were over forty agro-dealers in Mumbwa who had not been paid by the Government. Some of the dealers are still owed their dues for the 2017/2018 Farming Season. I want to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President when the Government will pay these businessmen their dues.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government is committed to paying the agro-dealers before the commencement of the next farming season. The Ministry of Finance is working on logistics and finances to see how this commitment can be fulfilled before the beginning of the next season. So, the agro-dealers in Mumbwa will be considered in this schedule of payments.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulenga (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, today, His Excellency the President of Zambia and the President of Zimbabwe are going to be honoured with doctorate degrees. Also, the hon. Member of Parliament for Ikeleng’i is graduating with a master’s degree. What advice is Her Honour the Vice-President giving to the politicians and school going children concerning education?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we are aware that education is key to literally everything in life. I want to thank the University of Zambia (UNZA) for recognising the leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, as well as that of the President of Zimbabwe, Mr Mnangagwa. UNZA has decided to confer honourary degrees on these two leaders because they have put into consideration certain attributes that they have recognised in them. That is why these degrees are being conferred. We are very pleased that this is happening because it will help us as we work so hard to promote good governance in Zambia and Zimbabwe.

Mr Speaker, it is very important for the young ones who are still in primary schools, colleges and all institutions of learning to concentrate on their studies so that they can enhance their lives in future and take control of the development of this country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kundoti (Luena): Mr Speaker, I want to find out from Her Honor the Vice-President when the very deplorable and dilapidated road from Mongu to Limulunga, the traditional capital of the Lozi people, is going to be rehabilitated. This is the cry of the people of Limulunga.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am told that the original contractor who was contracted to work on that road has proved to be very expensive. So the ministry responsible for infrastructure is working on negotiating for a new manageable cost for work on that road. We hope that this will happen now that the rains are over. Since the hon. Minister is sitting near me, we will get a guarantee from him if that road will be worked on quickly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chali (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, an announcement was made that there will be a one day workshop on delimitation on Wednesday next week. When do we expect this delimitation exercise to commence and on which census is it going to be based on?

Mr Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President, would you like the question to be repeated?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether I got the question right and whether the hon. Member is asking as to when the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) will start the delimitation exercise. The delimitation exercise is a national event. The ECZ is engaging stakeholders to explain how this exercise will be conducted because there are some new districts, wards and constituencies which sometimes go across two districts which have caused some concern. So, the ECZ has to consult the people at the grassroots, local councils and Parliamentarians. I hope all the hon. Members of Parliament will attend this consultative workshop on Wednesday next week so that they get the information they require and then they can make an input in the deliberations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government promised the people of Kalabo and Sikongo that it would work on the Kalabo/Sikongo Road by March, 2019. As I speak, the contractor has pulled out all the equipment from the site. When is the Government paying the contractor so that the work can resume? Further, why has the Government failed to pay the contractor?

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament should not worry about whether the work on that road will be completed because the money was sourced from co-operating banks in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. So, the works are ongoing.

Mr Ndalamei: Ah! Where?

The Vice-President: I know what you are talking about because I have reports from Kalabo about the road and that the works have stalled due to certain technical reasons. Otherwise the works will continue.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, one of the austerity measures that the Government has put in place is to stop projects that are below the 80 per cent complete rate and yet we are seeing many projects starting in Lusaka and more recently in Katuba. Would Her Honour the Vice-President tell the nation through this august House what kind of projects have been stopped.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member for Livingstone is referring to Katuba, the health projects are ongoing.

Dr Chilufya: Yes!

The Vice-President: The projects have been ongoing throughout the country. Some of the projects that are being implemented were started a long time ago and we are now just completing them. The works are still ongoing. The Government has made priority projects that will be addressed while others will be shelved to allow for the fiscal space to improve.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, the situation has now become an emergency in Zambezi East, especially for the people living on the banks of the Zambezi River. In the past two months, about four people have been caught by dangerous crocodiles because of attempting to draw water from the Zambezi River. Has the Government got a specific programme to improve the water situation for people living on the banks of the Zambezi River, especially around Chitokoloki area, where incidences of women being caught by crocodiles have increased? Almost every two months a person is caught by a crocodile. Does the Government have a specific programme for Zambezi East on the banks of the Zambezi River?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the issues of water and drilling of boreholes are very important. The Government has actually embarked on drilling boreholes in most of the districts. The North-Western Province is also benefitting from these facilities, including Zambezi East. If crocodiles are a menace to the population in that area, I advise the hon. Member to liaise with the Ministry of Tourism and Arts. If there are more crocodiles in the Zambezi River in Zambezi District, perhaps there is need for cropping. However, these are issues that should be discussed in offices and not only debated in Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF ADDITIONAL CLASSROOM BLOCKS AT UPGRADED SECONDARY SCHOOLS IN KAOMA

398. Brig.-Gen. Sitwala (Kaoma Central) asked the Minister of General

Education:

whether the Government has any plans to construct additional classroom blocks at the following recently upgraded secondary schools in Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency:

Mulamatila;
Longe;
Lunyati; and
Luena;

if so, when the plans will be implemented;

what the total cost of the exercise is; and

if there are no such plans, why.

The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale) (on behalf of The Minister of General Education (Mr Mabumba)): Mr Speaker, the ministry has no immediate plans to construct additional classroom blocks at Mulamatila Secondary School, Longe Secondary School, Lunyati Secondary School and Luena Secondary School in Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency, including other recently upgraded secondary schools until the schools under construction are completed.

Mr Speaker, in view of the answer to part (a) of the question, part (b) of the question falls off. The total cost of the project can only be known once funds are made available as the ministry can determine which targets to tackle with the available resources. There are no plans to construct additional classroom blocks at the schools in question due to budgetary constraints.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Brig.-Gen. Sitwala (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister guarantee the provision of desks not only for the schools mentioned in the question, but even for other community schools where the community has come up to −

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order on Hon. Jack Mwiimbu in connection with the question which he raised during the Vice-President’s Question Time. Hon. Mwiimbu, like me, is Catholic just like many others here.

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, Hon. Mwiimbu knows that if there are issues that are bordering on national significance, the Catholic Church issues a pastoral letter which is circulated to all the parishes. Therefore, is Hon. Mwiimbu in order to mislead this House and the nation at large that the Catholic Church, through the Bishop of Mongu, issued a pastoral letter? Is he in order to mislead the nation in that manner without bringing the information to the Table of the House?

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: I reserve my ruling.

Brig-Gen. Sitwala: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister, at least, guarantee the provision of desks not only for the schools mentioned here, but also other community schools where the communities have put up infrastructure using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for example?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the question was specifically about the construction of classroom blocks. If the hon. Member wants a good answer on the provision of desks, I encourage him to either engage us directly or ask a question relating to desks so that we can come with accurate information. I did not come prepared to give an answer on desks because his question was specifically about classroom blocks.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Government has completely no plans to construct additional classrooms at the schools that have been mentioned on this Order Paper, under Question No. 398 until the existing projects that are under construction are completed. We do not know when these projects will be completed. When does he expect these projects to be completed so that additional classroom blocks can be constructed at these schools?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, these projects are ongoing as we speak. There are projects to upgrade primary schools to secondary schools and these are ongoing. Regarding the duration for the works of the schools that are under construction or being upgraded, at least, I needed to be prepared with that information. Right now, I cannot provide that information. There are many different schools at different stages being upgraded at the moment. Once the works are done, we can begin to discuss about the expansion of the facilities. Before the construction works are done, we cannot discuss the expansion of the facilities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, the schools are being upgraded, but there are no classroom blocks and immediate plans to build them. How are we helping our children to learn in a good environment? The population is growing as the schools are being upgraded, but there are no classroom blocks. What are the immediate plans to help these pupils?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the word here is ‘additional’ classroom blocks. There are existing classroom blocks there, but what the hon. Member of Parliament is asking for are additional classroom blocks. The impression which Hon. Mutelo has created through his question is that there are no classroom blocks. They are there. That is why we have upgraded these schools to secondary schools. The hon. Member asked for additional classroom blocks. The additional classroom blocks can only come once we finish upgrading of these schools.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF PALACE FOR CHIEF NGABWE

399. Mr Chiyalika (Lufubu) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

whether the Government has any plans to construct a palace for Chief Ngabwe in Ngabwe District;

if so, when the plans will be implemented;

what the estimated cost of the project is; and

who the contractor for the project is.

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mr Sichalwe): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct a place for Chief Ngabwe in Ngabwe District. The plans to construct Chief Ngabwe’s palace will be implemented in subsequent phases as the Government is constructing these palaces in phases.

Sir, the estimated total cost of the palace will be determined once the procurement process of the construction works has been done.

Mr Speaker, in view of the response above, there is no contractor for this palace at the moment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, like the people of Ngabwe, the people of Kasempa have no idea as to where the schedule for the whole country is with regards to the construction of places for the royal highnesses. Is the hon. Minister able to furnish us with a schedule that indicates when Chief Ingwe and Senior Chief Kasempa’s palaces will be constructed?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, I will be able to furnish the House with the details as requested, although off-the-cuff, I can say that this project is phased. The construction of thirty palaces has been planned for under the current phase. There are three palaces per province.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, is it possible for the hon. Minister to give a clear answer to the people of Ngabwe regarding the phase in which the palace for Chief Ngabwe will be constructed since he said that the project is phased?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, currently, we are in the first phase. Once we complete the first phase, we will proceed to the next one, which is Phase II. The composition of the phase that we will go into will be dependent on the recommendations that will come from the various provinces. The provinces will have to do an assessment to pick who they will prioritise. Once we are given that list, we will proceed to the next phase.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, –

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, it is a cardinal rule on the Floor of this House that when you want to raise an issue pertaining to a statement that has been made by your colleague, you must be factual. Is the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources in order to say that I was referring to a pastoral letter by the Catholic Church, when I never referred to any pastoral letter in my statement? I never said that. If she is challenging me pertaining to the statement I raised, I will lay a document on the Table which I was referring to.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to raise an issue which I did not raise?

Mr Mwiimbu laid the document on the Table.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I hoped I would not say or do this, but I have to.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: There was a point of order which was raised earlier on by the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources in relation to the very subject you have raised. In response, I said I reserved my ruling. So, that point of order has not been disposed of yet. Further, before the disposal of that point of order, you also raise a point of order on a point of order.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: These are very basic procedural issues. I cannot rule on your point of order because it is disqualified. Therefore, the only thing you should have done is just to have waited for me to rule on the point of order. That is all.

May the hon. Member for Kabompo continue.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, the programme to construct palaces for royal highnesses has been ongoing since 2011 when it was first announced by the late President Sata. Going by what has been achieved so far, one starts to wonder whether the programme is attainable especially given the current design and circumstances. If it is not attainable, what other strategy is the Government putting in place to ensure that in one way or another, their royal highnesses are assisted in having good palaces at their respective sites?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, the project is attainable dependent on the availability of funds. We are engaging our counterparts in the Ministry of Finance regarding the funds. We have been receiving the funding slowly. For instance, in 2018, the budget for the project was K18,195,000 and out of that, we were only funded K8,600,000. So, we could hardly move with that kind of funding. We are engaging our colleagues in the Ministry of Finance so that they expedite the funding to enable us to move quickly with the project.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I will take the last three interventions from hon. Members for Solwezi Central, Manyinga and Lukulu East.

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister does not know the cost of the chief’s palace, is it not possible to come up with a standard structure with a known bill of quantities (BoQ) so that every time the ministry plans to build a palace, the ministry will know the cost. Is that not possible?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, let me correct the hon. Member. I did not say that I did not know the cost. I said that the cost will be determined at the appropriate time when the site is allocated. There are a number of factors that are considered in coming with the costing of the project. Firstly, the palaces are standard. They are the same throughout the country. However, they cannot have the same bill of quantities (BoQ) because there are a number of factors that are considered for the logistics. I will give a typical example of the terrain you have to go through to get to some of the sites. So, because of the terrain, the costing will obviously not be the same in the different sites. Therefore, we cannot have a uniform cost, but we will have a uniform structure for all the palaces.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Mr Speaker, from the time the exercise of building chiefs’ palaces started, how many has the Government built and completed?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, as we stand, twelve have been completed, eight have been handed over, four are yet to be handed over, twelve are above 80 per cent completion rate which we are prioritising to complete and seven are below 80 per cent completion rate.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute on this important question.

Sir, of the three palaces to be built in the Western Province, one will be in Lukulu for Senior Chief Hanan’ganga. However, works on this building have stalled with no indication of exactly when the project will finally be concluded. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the reason for this. When do we expect this important project for our senior chief to come to an end?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, indeed, the construction of the palace for Chief Lukama has temporarily stalled. I have taken keen interest in it –

Interruptions

Mr Sichalwe: Pardon me. Sorry, did I get you wrong?

Dr Kalila: Lukulu!

Mr Sichalwe: I have a palace for Chief Imwiko in Lukulu in mind. We have some interim payment certificates (IPCs) that have not been paid for. So, we are still waiting for the payment. However, we have made a claim of K3.9 million on the outstanding IPCs. Once we receive the payment for the IPCs, we will certainly ensure that the contractor is back on site.

I thank you, Sir.

CLEANING UP POLICE STATIONS

400. Mr Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Home Affairs what measures the Government is taking to clean up police stations that are littered with impounded motor vehicles and those involved in road traffic accidents.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware about some police stations that are littered with impounded motor vehicles and those that had been involved in road traffic accidents. The hon. Member may wish to know that the Zambia Police Service impounds motor vehicles for various reasons. Some of the reasons are as follows:

motor vehicles under investigations ˗ these motor vehicles are exhibits and therefore, cannot be released until investigations are either completed or cases are disposed off;

motor vehicles involved in fatal or serious accidents ˗ these motor vehicles are released as soon as the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) examiners have completed their exercises;

motor vehicles whose owners have committed impoundable offences ˗ these motor vehicles are released upon payment of admission of guilt or when the case is disposed off; and

found motor vehicles ˗ these motor vehicles are disposed of after following laid down procedures.

Mr Speaker, what I have stated are the measures taken by the Government to clean up police stations littered with motor vehicles. Further, motor vehicles involved in road traffic accidents are examined by RTSA to ensure that they are released almost immediately. The Zambia Police Service in collaboration with RTSA has expedited the identification of the owners of abandoned vehicles. However, where the owners are not identified, the motor vehicles have to be auctioned in accordance with the law. I think now you can see that there are very few such vehicles that you find at our stations.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF INFRASTRUCTURE IN NGABWA

401. Mr Chiyalika (Lufubu) asked the Minister of Local Government:

whether the Government has any plans to construct the following infrastructure in Ngabwe District:

a modern market; and
a bus station;

if so, when the plans will be implemented; and

what the estimated cost of the project is.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the Government has intentions to construct a modern market and bus station in Ngabwe District. The plan to construct a modern market and bus station in Ngabwe will only be implemented once the funds are secured or made available. The project estimates can only be determined after the project designs and quantifications are arrived at.

I thank you, Mr Speaker

Mr Chiyalika: Mr Speaker, when will the funds be secured to ensure that the infrastructure in question is put in place for the people of Ngabwe?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, it is very difficult for me to say when the funds will be secured. Every year when we pass the budget, we factor in a provision for the construction of markets and bus stations. However, our focus at the moment is on the projects that have not yet been completed and are ongoing. These are the ones that we are channelling the funds towards. Thereafter, we can begin to look at new projects. On the other hand, we have also entered into agreements with private players who are willing to invest in public-private partnerships (PPPs) with different local authorities. So, we are considering Ngabwe under that arrangement.

Mr Speaker, institutions such as the National Pensions Scheme Authority (NAPSA) are ready to finance the construction of bus stations and markets. We are constructing the market and bus station in Livingstone. The works are almost complete using NAPSA funds. So, that is another mode that we could actually employ to construct a bus station and market in Ngabwe. Therefore, we will keep engaging the hon. Member of Parliament to see which mode we can employ as soon as possible to make sure that the people of Ngabwe have a bus station and market.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kabanda (Serenje): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister had promised to share a schedule of the phased out projects, particularly the markets under construction in the country, for circulation to hon. Members of Parliament. When will the schedule be circulated?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I think I had made a promise to do that with regards to the roads, but if there is a request related to markets and bus stations, we can immediately start working on it. It is not difficult because we know all the projects that we are currently implementing. So even by the end of next week, we can make the schedule available.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

PLANS FOR ABATTOIR IN KATETE

402. Mr Phiri asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock what plans the Government has for the abattoir, which is in the central business district (CBD) of Katete and is not in use, considering that there is another abattoir outside the CBD.

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Ms Mulenga): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to use the old abattoir which is not in use and located in the central business district (CBD) of Katete as a bulking centre for small livestock and ruminants, but most importantly as a livestock farmer training centre.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker, may I find out when that programme will start, considering that the abattoir is not complete and that it is a white elephant in the middle of the central business district.

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, it has been a white elephant because the works had been halted due to the residents encroaching near where the abattoir was supposed to have been constructed. So, the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock felt that it was better to now use that place as a bulking centre and livestock farmer training institute. I want to assure the hon. Member of Parliament that by the close of this year, as we undergo the restocking exercise, that place will be in operation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr W. Banda (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Fisheries and livestock indicated that the old abattoir was going to be rehabilitated. What is the source of funding for the rehabilitation of the old abattoir?

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, we have received funds from the World Bank and also through our co-operating partners as well as the Treasury. That is why I earlier stated that before the end of this year, we will have the centre operational.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Fisheries and Livestock mentioned encroachment as one of the impediments to the utilisation of the centre. What measures have been put in place or is the hon. Minister in contact with the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources to mitigate the situation in terms of encroachment?

Ms Mulenga: Mr Speaker, we have put up mitigation measures. The centre has been fenced. However, we did not put up the abattoir is because of health issues. That is why we abandoned the project. We are instead putting up a bulking centre and an institute for training our farmers on livestock.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

PUPILS PROVIDING ADDITIONAL ITEMS TO SCHOOL FEES

403. Mr Phiri asked the Minister of General Education:

whether it is mandatory for pupils to provide items such as cement, cobra, mattresses, reams of paper and hoes, in addition to school fees, when required by a school;

if so, whether the Government is aware that the practice is hampering children’s access to education in rural areas; and

if it is not mandatory, what measures have been taken to stop the practice.

Mr Mwale (on behalf of Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, it is the policy of the ministry to allow stakeholders like school boards and parents teachers associations (PTAs) to decide what the learners have to take to school, especially when a school is undertaking a project.

Mr Speaker, the ministry has not received any information on learners failing to access education because of the failure to provide the said supplies. If there is such information, it is normally dealt with at school, district and provincial levels. It is the wish of the ministry that all learners access education at the nearest schools to their homes. As you may be aware, there is free education from grades 1 to 7, while learners contribute towards their education at secondary school, which is from grades 8 to 12. Schools have been allowed to accept payments in kind from parents as their contribution towards their children’s education. This is in a bid to enable those who cannot pay money to contribute in other forms.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, the situation in Mkaika is the same as that in most of the schools in our constituencies where parents are asked to make contributions towards the education of their children in forms other than cash. However, my worry is about accountability around cash and some of the items which are cash equivalent.

Sir, has the ministry cared to ensure accountability which seems to be the main concern for us parents in terms of the resources that we contribute to various schools? It is a good thing that the fees were reduced. That sent a very good message to the teachers out there, especially –

Mr Speaker: You have begun debating now.

Mr Kambita: Does the Government have a mechanism of continuously auditing school authorities to ensure that the resources they receive are accounted for?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, accountability or action to ensure accountability starts with the parents themselves. The ones that are making these contributions to these schools are the first ones that work with education officials at district levels to ensure that the materials they give to the schools are well utilised.

Sir, in fact, I have the benefit of coming from a rural constituency. The PTA chairpersons and executives are very active in ensuring that all those things that accrue to the schools are well utilised. However, in cases where things are not properly accounted for, these matters are dealt with at the district level. The offices of the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) are usually active in ensuring that they send auditors to check on such matters.

Mr Speaker, we do not wait for these things to come all the way to the ministry to be addressed because we have thousands of schools throughout the country. We make sure that the DEBS offices in the districts are on top of things in ensuring that there is accountability. Therefore, I can assure the hon. Member that the DEBS offices are active in dealing with such matters.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Phiri (Nominated): Mr Speaker, is the ministry aware that these parent teacher associations (PTAs) are abusing parents? I can cite an example of a school in the Southern Province where after the introduction of the fees, a headmaster decided to demolish a laboratory which was in good condition so that parents could pay for the reconstruction project. Is the Government thinking of regulating these PTAs so that they have the same conditions across the country to ensure that parents are not abused anymore?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, it might be difficult to have the same conditions across the board because different schools have different projects which are at different stages of development. We actually hope that PTA members who are actually parents of the pupils that go to those schools will take care and ensure that they do not abuse themselves because they are the ones that come up with these conditions. The PTAs work together with school authorities. I do not understand how the members of the PTAs would allow themselves to be abused when they are the ones who are making these decisions.

Sir, the PTA is actually a composition of management and the parents themselves. Therefore, they have to work together to have harmony and ensure that they only ask that which they can manage to pay. However, we have heard the complaint. If there are severe cases like the one which has been cited by the hon. Member, the ministry can narrow down to them and resolve them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the parent teacher associations (PTA) also request for funds from pupils. Has that fund been scrapped off? I am aware that the hon. Minister reduced the school fees, but has that project fund which is being charged by the PTA been scraped off or is it still there because there is confusion in these schools?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, like I said, it is Government’s policy to allow the stakeholders to take such contributions because this is their own initiative. The Government has scrapped the fees that they should be charging pupils, but parents together with management are allowed to raise funds for the construction of toilets, for example, so that the school will not be closed for lack of toilets. If there is no money, the school can allow parents to bring chickens and maize to sell to put up toilets so that the children can continue to learn. This is usually their creation and so we cannot deny them the opportunity to develop their own schools. Therefore, we have not stopped the PTAs from raising funds.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutaba (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, one of the reasons these schools demand for money from parents is the fact that the grants which are given to the schools are either late or inadequate. Now that user fees have been scrapped, we expect that the schools will demand more from the parents. What measures has the Government put in place to protect these parents from being abused by these schools?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, at the time we were coming up with this decision, we were fully aware that once parents stopped paying school fees, there would be some deficits in terms of the school budgets. However, we carefully analysed everything and we are very sure that the schools should be able to run from the support that the Government gives them. We are trying to create a balance between not stopping children from going to school and developing schools at a certain rate, otherwise we would have well-developed schools where people are asked to pay a lot of money, but students would not afford to go there. A balance had to be struck.

Sir, the hon. Member may be aware that the Ministry of General Education enjoys a lot of funding from this Government. If it is not the ministry which receives the biggest amount in terms of funding, it should be the second. This shows that this Government cares about education and the schools. We will not let the schools suffer.

I thank you, Sir.

EMPOWERMENT FUNDS FOR WOMEN’S GROUPS IN MKAIKA

404. Mr Phiri asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare:

how many women’s groups in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency received empowerment funds in 2017 and 2018;

what the names of the groups are; and

how much money was disbursed in each year.

The Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare (Mrs Mwansa): Mr Speaker, during 2017 and 2018, the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare did not disburse any empowerment funds to women’s groups in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency due to the non-availability of funds. In light of my responses in (a) above, there were no women’s groups that received the empowerment funds in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency. However, the ministry is engaging with the Treasury to ensure that the Women Empowerment Programme is funded across the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker –

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to ask a follow up question. The hon. Minister indicated that nothing was allocated to Mkaika and Katete districts. May I please get an assurance that when funds are available, the women’s groups in Katete will be considered?

Mrs Mwansa: Madam Speaker, we will definitely consider Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency when funds are made available.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF CHIEF KALONGA GAWA UNDI’S PALACE

405. Mr Phiri asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

when the construction of Chief Kalonga Gawa Undi’s palace in Katete District will commence;

what the total cost of the project is; and

what the estimated time frame for the completion of the project is.

Mr Sichalwe: Madam Speaker, the construction of Paramount Chief Kalonga Gawa Undi’s palace is scheduled in Phase I and will only commence once the Government is advised by the royal establishment of the site at which the palace will be constructed.

Madam Speaker, the estimated total cost of constructing the palace will be determined once the procurement process of the works has been done, subject to what has been indicted above.

Madam Speaker, the estimated time frame of the completion of the project will be determined subject to the completion of the procurement process.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

UPGRADING OF HEALTH CENTERS IN CHADIZA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

406. Mr S. Tembo (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Health:

whether there are any plans to upgrade the following rural health centers in Chadiza Parliamentary Constituency to mini hospital level:

Taferansoni;

John;

Champhanda; and

Nsadzu;

if so, when implementation of the plans will commence;

what the total cost of the exercise is; and

when additional staff will be deployed to the facilities above.

The Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Madam Speaker, bearing in mind the population catchment for Taferasoni, Nsadzu and John, the Government has plans to upgrade the level of service to mini hospital status. For now, they are operating at the zonal health center status. We have plans to upgrade the infrastructure to upgrade the scope of service to that of mini hospital status in 2020

Madam Speaker, as for Champhanda, a mini hospital will be built there within the fourth quarter of 2019. The implementation of the project at Champhanda will be in the fourth quarter after the financing agreement is completed.

Madam Speaker, the total cost of construction will only be known after the financing agreement is completed.

Madam Speaker, in terms of additional staff to be deployed, the House may wish to note that Taferansoni has eight staff, John has five staff and Nsadzu has eight staff currently offering services. The Government will deploy more staff as we upgrade services, and this will be dependent on Treasury authority. Champhanda will have staff once the facility is constructed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

DISTRIBUTION OF SPORTS EQUIPMENT IN GWEMBE PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe) asked the Minister of General Education:

when sports equipment was last distributed to schools in Gwembe Parliamentary Constituency;

what type of equipment was distributed;

when the next distribution exercise will be carried out; and

what type of equipment will be given to each school.

Mr Mwale) (on behalf of (Mr Mabumba)): Madam Speaker, sporting equipment was last distributed to Gwembe District in October 2017. The sporting equipment distributed included footballs, netballs and volleyball equipment.

Madam Speaker, the next distribution is dependent on the availability of funds to cover transporting costs. The type of equipment to be distributed is gymnastic sports equipment.

I thank you, Madam.

CONSTRUCTION OF SOMA HEALTH POST IN KAMFINSA

408. Mr Musonda (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Health:

when the construction of Soma Health Post in Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency will be completed;

when the health post will be commissioned;

when Ndeke Village Health Centre will be upgraded to a first level hospital; and

why it has taken long to complete the process of upgrading the health centre.

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, Soma Health Post is amongst the 650 health posts the Government is constructing countrywide. In Kamfinsa, the completion of the health post will be within the next four weeks, and there will be a handover. We will commission operations immediately after the contractor hands the facility over.

Madam Speaker, the upgrading of the Ndeke Village Health Center has already commenced. You may wish to note that the maternity, theatre, radiology, laboratory and mortuary units are currently under contraction.

Madam Speaker, the contractor who delayed finishing the construction has had his contract terminated. We will soon have a new contractor to finish the process. The delay has been due to the incompetence of the contractor.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Musonda: Madam Speaker, I just want the hon. Minister to enlighten the people of Kamfinsa Parliamentary Constituency on the Ndeke Village Health Centre Project. The hon. Minister knows very well that this is a project that has been going on for more than ten years. It has seen three sitting hon. Members of Parliament push for its completion. Could the hon. Minister please assure the people of Kamfinsa that the works will not be done by the contractor who has rightly been said to be incompetent? Can the hon. Minister also tell us who the new contractor will be for the project?

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, this procurement was done by the provincial administration, and it has suffered a lot of challenges in its execution. In trying to restore this contract, we have decided to assist from the headquarters. We are working with the provincial administration to ensure that the procurement is done at the level where we will have a very competent contractor who will be able to complete the process within a defined period of time. I want to assure the hon. Member of Parliament that we will complete that project because we are taking it away from the provincial administration.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

PROCUREMENT OF AMBULANCES

409. Mr Mung’andu (Chama South) asked the Minister of Health:

whether the Government has plans to procure ambulances for the following health posts:

Tembwe;

Chikwa;

Chifunda; and

Mapamba; and

if so, when the plans will be implemented.

Dr Chilufya: Madam Speaker, because of inadequate resources, the Government does not place ambulances ordinarily at health posts. The Government would rather position ambulances at strategic facilities to cater for a number of health posts in a region. Chama will benefit from the ambulances that have been recently procured. There will be an ambulance strategically positioned to cover the regions where these four health facilities are.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

COMMUNITY SCHOOLS IN MOOMBA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

410. Mr Chaatila (Moomba) asked the Minister of General Education:

whether the Government has any plans to convert community schools in Moomba Parliamentary Constituency, to public schools;

If so, how many schools are earmarked to be converted;

what the names of the schools are;

when the exercise will commence; and

1f there are no such plans, why.

Mr Mwale (on behalf of Mr Mabumba): Madam Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to convert community schools to public schools in Moomba Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam Speaker, in view of the above answer, questions (b), (c) and (d) fall off. Moomba Parliamentary Constituency in Chibombo District has not submitted any application from the parent community school committees to convert community schools to public schools.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, it is very obvious that the hon. Minister is talking about a different place because he has referred to Chibombo District when Moomba Constituency is in Monze District. Can the hon. Minister clarify which place he is talking about.

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, sorry, I think that was a slip of the tongue.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can you state the correct district, hon. Minister?

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, we are discussing Moomba Parliamentary Constituency.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: In?

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, wherever it is, Monze Constituency.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: It is Moomba Constituency in Monze District.

Mr Chaatila: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has clarified the issue. Now that the hon. Minister has indicated that there is no application from Moomba Parliamentary Constituency to upgrade any school from a community school to a Government school, is he aware that we have submitted an application for Namununga Community School and Cheelo Community School to be converted?

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, we are going to check how far that application has gone. As for now, that application has not been recorded. Therefore, we could not turn these community schools into public schools, but we will follow up the matter. I encourage the hon. Member of Parliament to visit us on Monday or Tuesday so that we can check on that application together and if need be, start the process.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Ms Tambatamba: Madam Speaker, it is of concern that there are so many community schools dotted around the country, Kasempa inclusive, which have been like that for a long time. I would like to find out whether the Government has a stipulated maturation duration after which the community schools can become Government schools.

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, community schools are demand-driven by the communities in which these schools are. I can read out the criteria if need be. I came prepared for that. I can read out the criteria of how a school can be converted from a community to a public school. I think just about five issues are considered. With your indulgence, Madam Speaker, may I read them out?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Yes, of course, hon. Minister.

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, they are as follows:

an application of intent endorsed by the parent community school committee (PCSC) should be sent to the ministry through the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS);

a general inspection shall be conducted by the Education Standards Officer;

an agreement outlining the conditions of the handover shall be signed by the current prospective proprietor;

a ceremony of handover, takeover and signing of the relevant documents shall be held; and

in the event that a school desires to change the name, the parents’ committee again shall apply to the ministry and shall attach minutes of the meeting at which the change was agreed upon. The change of the school name will be effected upon approval.

Madam Speaker, you can tell from what I have said that the process is demand-driven. It is the community that takes the first step to apply and then the Government responds.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Madam Speaker, following the response from the hon. Minister on this important subject of community schools which I know affects all the rural constituencies, is the hon. Minister in a position to bring the document with those important guidelines of things that need to be done to ensure that the community schools are upgraded to Government schools? Is the hon. Minister able to bring the document to Parliament so that all of us here can have it?

Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, if there is need for us to circulate that document, we can do it during the course of next week.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF STORAGE SHEDS AND SLABS IN CHADIZA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

411. Mr S. Tembo (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Agriculture:

when the construction of the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) storage sheds and slabs in Chadiza Parliamentary Constituency, which was abandoned, will resume;

why the works were abandoned;

what the total cost of the project is; and

how much money has been paid to the contractor as of 31^st January, 2019.

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Katambo): Madam Speaker, the Government through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is currently negotiating project financing with Advanced African Solutions for the upgrading of storage sheds. The construction of the two slabs at the Chadiza Depot are earmarked to be completed into full scale sheds once the modalities of the implementation are concluded. The contract was terminated due to non-performance by the contractor. The total cost of the project for the construction of the two slabs was K1,754,539.50. The total amount paid to the contractor as at 31^st January, 2019, was K762,843.26.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF UNIVERSITY IN KATETE

412. Mr Phiri asked the Minister of Higher Education:

when the construction of a university in Katete District will commence;

what the cost of the project is;

what the timeframe for the completion of the project is; and

what the name of the contractor is.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda) (on behalf of the Minister of Higher Education (Prof. Luo)): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the construction of a university college of applied arts in Katete District of the Eastern Province will commence once the Government has sourced funds to undertake the project.

Madam Speaker, as the House is aware, the Government had negotiated external funding from three institutions for three universities. The Arab Bank for Economic Development in Africa (BADEA) was supposed to finance the construction of the Katete University College of Applied Arts, the Kuwait Funds for Arab Economic Development was supposed to finance the construction of the Kabompo College of Science and Technology in Kabompo District and Abu Dhabi for International Development (ADFD) was supposed to fund the construction of Nalolo College.

Madam Speaker, it is regrettable that following the Government’s decision to implement austerity measures, all contracted loans that had not yet been implemented at the time of arriving at that decision had to be restructured or cancelled. Unfortunately, this affected the loan that was meant for the construction of the Katete University College of Applied Arts. That loan was cancelled along with the loan that was meant to finance the construction of Nalolo College. The project was to cost US$5,400,000. With regards to answers for parts (c) and (d) of the question, we will have to wait until we have secured funding.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lufuma: Madam Speaker, the three colleges were announced in 2013 by the late President, Mr Michael Sata, and at that time, we were told in no uncertain terms that funding had been secured. Austerity measures were brought in a year or two ago. I want to find out from the hon. Minister what transpired because we were promised that the designs were done. We were told that the engineers who were supposed to design the colleges had been procured and that any time the projects would commence. What has suddenly happened leading to the cancellation of the loans after we were informed that they were procured and guaranteed?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, I do not know about the loans having been guaranteed. I only know about them being secured. At the time of the announcement, the designs had already been done and negotiations had commenced in earnest. Like I indicated earlier, actually there were four banks which had already intimated their willingness to finance the projects. As the hon. Member may be aware, securing a bank loan even at personal level takes a lot of back and forth negotiations. The money had not been secured. The funds had not been transferred from the various banks at the time the austerity measures were engaged in. That is the reason the construction of the two universities were affected. As for the construction of the Kabompo University, it was not affected because at the time that we arrived at the austerity measures, the funds had already been secured.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that there has been a change in the project site as was stated in the statement by his colleague? Initially, this project was supposed to be constructed in Petauke, but it was later changed to Katete and the cancellation was done due to the changing of the sites. The former hon. Minister then, Hon. Kaingu, said that the university would be constructed in Petauke because it was more centrally located than Katete. Can the hon. Minister confirm that the cancellation was due to the change of site from Petauke to Katete?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, if indeed there was a shift with regard to the project site from Petauke to Katete, I will answer a question in relation to the Katete University of Applied Arts. This means that the project was not cancelled because of the shift. I like said, the project is still on the drawing board. As soon as the money is secured for this project, the people of Katete will benefit from the construction of a university of applied arts, which shall be constructed by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. We are committed to that and so the shifting of the project site does not affect the contract at all.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Phiri: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister give an assurance to the people of Mkaika that the university will be constructed.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister has just said that.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, the construction of a university college of applied arts in Katete District of the Eastern Province will commence once the Government has sourced for funds to undertake the project. That is as much as I can say.

I thank you, Madam.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, I think we have just heard that a number of projects, including the one in Katete, cannot proceed because of the austerity measures that have been put in place meaning that the loans that were either negotiated or secured, and I am not very clear about this, will have to be put on ice. My question is: Since there so many other projects in Zambia in the education sector that were relying on external financing, when will the ministry come to this House to tell us plainly and explicitly that we should forget about this and that project while certain projects are being implemented? When is the ministry going to do that?

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, this Government has been on record of having indicated that projects that are under the 80 per cent completion level will have to be postponed. That is the position of the Government. With regard to these three universities, the ones in Nalolo, Katete and Kabompo, I indicated that the funds for the two had not been secured at the time that we entered into austerity measures and that is the reason they have been put on ice. The one for which funds were secured at the time of entering into the austerity measures, the Kabompo one, will proceed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam Speaker, my question is on all fours with the one by my Deputy Whip. I still feel the hon. Minister has not answered the Opposition Deputy Whip’s question. The Deputy Whip asked his question because we do not know the profile of all the projects in sector such as the education sector that have been put on ice that are below the 80 per cent completion rate. The question was: Is the hon. Minister able to come here with the schedule of all the projects that have been abandoned as a result of the austerity measure policy? That was the question. Is the hon. Minister able to do that and if so, when will he do it? Muziyankha mafunso.

Mr A. B. Malama: Meaning?

Mr Nkombo: You should be answering questions and not skirting around.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, obviously, as you are all aware, hon. Ministers anticipate questions. The hon. Minister anticipated questions with regard to Katete University College of Applied Arts in Katete and the other two universities that were supposed to be developed at the same time. The hon. Minister did not anticipate that he will be asked about all the projects that the Government is running. I did not anticipate that. That is the reason I am restricting myself to questions related to the question on the Order Paper.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: In the interest of ensuring that all hon. Members in this House are aware of which projects will be attended to when, which projects are above 80 per cent completion point in line with austerity measures and which ones are below that point especially the major projects, the Government must come to this House with that information.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mwagwiliwa!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The hon. Members of Parliament here must be able to go back to their people and constituencies with full information about which projects will be completed and which ones will not be completed.

The hon. Minister of Finance in consultation with other line ministries, perhaps in your own time, can come up with that information.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Thank you!

_______

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON TRANSPORT, WORKS AND SUPPLY FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE TWELTH NATIONAL ASSEMBLY

Mr Syakalima (Chirundu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply for the Third Session of the Twelfth National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 13^th June, 2019.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Ms Kasanda (Chisamba): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Speaker, in performing its duties, your Committee was guided by its terms of reference as set out in the National Assembly Standing Orders. During the period under review, the Committee considered one topical issue, namely; Zambia’s preparedness to establish a national airline. The Committee also considered the Action-Taken-Report on the Committee’s Report for the Second Session of the Twelfth National Assembly.

Madam Speaker, in carrying out this important task, the Committee sort both written and oral submissions from various stakeholders. To consolidate its understanding of the subject under consideration, the Committee undertook a local tour to the Southern Province, Lusaka Province and Copperbelt Province.

Madam Speaker, I am certain that hon. Members have had the occasion to read the Committee’s report. I will, therefore, endeavour to only point out the highlights of the Committee’s report.

Madam Speaker, as the House may be aware that the re-establishment of the national airline is an important programme in Zambia’s economic development and diversification agenda. Both the National Transport Policy of 2018 and Seventh National Development Plan (7NDP) envision that the national airline will contribute to the improvement of the transport systems and facilitate the efficient movement of both passengers and goods domestically, regionally and internationally. The intention of the Zambian Government to re-establish a national airline has been widely debated with divergent views being expressed about the country’s preparedness to re-establish and sustain such an operation. This is mainly because of the unfortunate failure of the first national airline and the demise of many local private airlines set up thereafter.

Madam Speaker, from the outset, let me state that the importance of a national airline, especially for the tourism industry, and its positive impact on social and economic development, cannot be overemphasised. The many ways in which a national airline can impact the economy include employment creation and playing a catalytic role in various economic sectors with direct and indirect linkages to each supply chain. The airline would also be an anchor in establishing Zambia into a regional air transport hub. It could also enhance competition and help to intensify the bargaining power of consumers, leading to lower fares.

Madam Speaker, notwithstanding the above, some stakeholders expressed concern about the country’s preparedness to re-establish and sustain the national airline. For instance, they were concerned that in establishing the airline, the country risked deepening the fiscal imbalances since the macroeconomic position of Zambia had weakened in the past few years. They were also of the view that Zambia risked joining the list of established national airlines in sub-Saharan Africa which had not performed well and experienced substantial financial losses, resulting in stress on the respective national treasuries, which needed to be bailed out with the view of saving jobs and sustaining economic activities in related sectors.

Madam Speaker, some stakeholders submitted that the national airline is likely to face some challenges in its operations which could include the high cost of jet fuel and stiff competition from established foreign airlines. The weakening of the economic growth in Zambia would reduce forecast traffic levels and ultimately, the projected earnings of the airline. Further, it is worrying to note that several major cost items, including fuel, repair and maintenance, aircraft servicing as well as aircraft lease payments, are priced in United States (US) Dollars. A weaker Kwacha, therefore, may entail higher costs in local currency terms and that may negatively impact on the company’s projected profit margins.

Madam Speaker, against this backdrop, allow me to give a brief of the Committee’s key observations and recommendations as contained in the report. The Committee observed with serious concern that although the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) will not directly seek funding from the Treasury for this investment, but will leverage its balance sheet to borrow funds from the financial market to meet its equity contribution, this will in effect, increase Government borrowing and reinforce the existing fiscal challenges. In this light, the Committee urges the Government to move from financing projects through borrowing to a market-led financing mechanism through a public-private partnership (PPP) with local private airline operators. The consequent reduced shareholding on the part of the Government will lessen the Government’s risk and save resources which can be utilised in needy social sectors and recapitalising struggling parastatal companies. This financing model will also improve profitability due to cost synergies and limited competition.

Madam Speaker, the national airline also risks not exercising operational independence due to potential political interference through policies that will undermine profitability. In light of this, the Committee is particularly concerned that the Chairperson of the IDC is the President of the Republic of Zambia and that, if coupled with a weak selection process of board appointments, presents a risk of political patronage. The Committee, therefore, strongly urges the Government to put in place measures to ensure that the airline operates without interference from the Government in order for it to be successful. To avoid the management and governance issues associated with the parastatal organisations, as was the case with the defunct Zambia Airways, the Committee recommends that the Chairperson of IDC be elected from among the board of directors of the company. Further, the process of vetting the board members at the time of appointment should be strengthened.

Madam Speaker, both the Committee and the stakeholders who appeared before it were in support of the establishment of the national airline and expressed confidence that with prudent management and adequate financial resources, the project may be viable. However, the Committee is sceptical about the timing of the launch of the project as it can be an economic hazard and a misplacement of priorities due to the following reasons:

the country is currently grappling with a huge debt burden, and the proposal to allow IDC to borrow its capital financing will lead to a deepening of Zambia’s fiscal challenges and will, therefore, not be in line with the Government’s policy on fiscal consolidation and prudent debt management;

the African airline industry is complex and characterised by huge losses.Therefore, Zambia Airways (2014) Limited risks not breaking even in the projected three and half years;

the opportunity cost of setting up an airline is that of foregoing essential services for the poor majority Zambians such as health and education and sustenance of the other existing expenditure on programmes such as the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and the Social Cash Transfer Scheme; and

a huge volume of Zambia’s external debt will be maturing between 2022 and 2024 due to the maturity of the Eurobonds issued on the international capital market. Hence, spending money on the airline is currently not a prudent way of using scarce taxpayers’ money and poses a serious risk to broader macroeconomic stability.

Madam Speaker, pursuant to the observations and recommendations made by the Committee, the Committee strongly recommends that in the best interest of the nation, the launch of the national airline be deferred until all the concerns raised are adequately attended to. The Government also needs to adhere to its stated policy of fiscal consolidation and allow itself an opportunity to attend to the huge debt overhang, especially the Eurobonds to mature soon. I have no doubt that the whole House will be willing to use the Committee’s lenses to see that this project is ill-timed as the cost of the project far outweighs the perceived benefits.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, the Committee is indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary memoranda and briefs. The Committee is also very grateful to you and the office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the valuable guidance and services rendered during the year. Finally, I wish to register my appreciation to all the hon. Members of the Committee for their co-operation and dedication to the work of the Committee.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms Kasanda: Now, Madam Speaker.

Ms Kasanda: Madam Speaker, thank you for allowing me to second this very important Motion. As the mover has already highlighted the salient issues in the report, I will only point out a few issues as I second the Motion.

Madam Speaker, most of the stakeholders who appeared before the Committee from both the public and private sectors lamented the lack of adequate consultation in the process of establishing the airline. Thus, there is need for wider and exhaustive consultations. The witnesses before the Committee complained that they were not consulted. Hence, they felt that they were left out. Most of them felt that they could contribute a lot more to the nation and to the new airline that is about to be established. Consultation and collaboration should be enhanced among the stakeholders who are critical in the promotion and sustenance of the airline service. Further, the aircrafts to be leased are too big for domestic travel considering the expensive fuel that we are getting, and there will be competition from airlines operating with smaller aircrafts. The Committee felt that the aircrafts that were about to be brought into the country were much bigger than what we needed. Therefore, the Government should be cautious in the initial years of operation by acquiring smaller aircrafts, especially in light of the low cost carrier model adopted by the airline.

Madam Speaker, the local tour by the Committee revealed that almost all the airports visited had old or inadequate infrastructure and that most of them had low traffic levels. Therefore, your Committee’s recommendation is that the Government should embark on a complete refurbishment of old airport infrastructure and the installation of modern equipment such as aerobridges and embark on vigorous marketing campaigns to attract passengers from other modes of transport to the air transport mode.

Madam Speaker, the other notable issue that your Committee took note of was that some aspects of the partnership agreement appeared to favour Ethiopian Airlines more than the Zambian Government. The Committee was practically concerned that:

Ethiopian Airlines will be benefiting through the lease of aircrafts to Zambia Airways while IDC, on behalf of the Zambian Government, will have to wait for the declaration of dividends for as long as there will be no profits made;

(b) Ethiopian Airlines will provide the maintenance and repair of aircraft at a profit to Zambia Airways, even in loss-making financial years; and

(c) the management, maintenance and secondment agreements entail more control of the company by Ethiopian Airlines despite IDC being the majority shareholder.

Madam Speaker, the issues I have highlighted mean that there will be less job opportunities for Zambians in the initial years. Ethiopian Airlines will also benefit from the funds through leases, maintenance and remuneration for the seconded staff even in the loss-making years. The Government should urgently put in place measures to ensure benefits accrue fairly to both partners.

Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I would like to thank the Chairperson for the manner in which he presided over the affairs of the Committee. I would also like to thank your staff for having worked very closely with the Committee to make its work much easier. Last, but not the least, I would like to thank you for affording the hon. Members a chance to serve on this very important Committee.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam Speaker, as I contribute to this report, I would be happy to know who among my colleagues in the Executive is the acting hon. Minister of Transport and Communication because I have seen that the hon. Minister is not in his chair.

Madam Speaker, with your indulgence, maybe, you can allow me to know who it is so that I can focus my eyes on him or her …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … as I make my points. Maybe, to make it simple, may the acting hon. Minister of Communication and Transport, please, raise his/her hand?

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Please, do not raise your hand, hon. Minister. Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, this is very serious business. Please, debate the Motion through the Chair.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Committee for interrogating this subject and coming up with recommendations. From the beginning, I would like to state that I agree with its recommendation that this is yet another area of completely misguided and wrong prioritisation on the part of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government.

Madam Speaker, the Committee would have given me some benefit if it had also put one or two paragraphs in the report to state its findings on what exactly caused the gigantic Zambia Airways Corporation to collapse. The airline had one of the biggest aircrafts at the time, the DC-10, which we used to call Nkwazi. The company had the ATR-42 and Hawker-Siddeley planes. It had regional and international destinations including New York, New Delhi and Antananarivo. It also had domestic flights. So, we needed to know what exactly occasioned the collapse of the big corporation.

Madam Speaker, in the midst of the terrible economic times which Zambia is going through, this is the wrong time to have an adventure or misadventure of establishing an airline and also for the Government to convince itself that it is going to get the Ethiopian Airlines as a strategic partner as the report has indicated, to help the airline grow. Simply put, I do not see a company like Airtel, which is in competition with MTN, getting MTN as a strategic partner. This is because they are in direct competition. This is a fail on the part of the Government. For it to go and partner with an airline and borrow three aircrafts to start a business is wrong. Just the footing is wrong. One should not start a business by going to borrow an aircraft from Ethiopian Airlines, a well established, but also loss-making company. That is a fact. Ethiopian Airlines is a loss-making entity. What is the Government trying to prove? Does it just want to show that it has an aircraft? By the way, the report tells me that a pilot earns between US$10,000 which is K120,000 and US$25,000, which is a lot of money, although I have not calculated its Kwacha equivalent. This Government is failing to pay a teacher who gets US$800 per month. It is also failing to pay a Government worker who gets US$600 per month. Where is it going to get US$10,000 to pay a pilot who is going to be flying an empty aircraft?

Madam Speaker, I had a funeral last week. So, I missed the scheduled trip with my Committee to Ndola. After, burying my aunt, I took a flight to Ndola to join my colleagues using Mahogany Air. The thirty-seater plane only had five passengers on board. This airline is operating like a charity. If I were the Government, I would have gone to Mahogany Air or Proflight and entered into a deal with them. I would say, “Look, you are a baby of our creation in this country. We would like to dress you in national colours and support you to grow as partners.” One cannot partner with a competitor and then say that he/she is a businessperson. There is logic in the Government calling these two airline operators which have taken a risk in a country where the air industry cannot operate because air fees are expensive because of the expensive Jet˗A1 fuel. This report is saying something which is a bit hazy in my mind as to how the company intends to engage the Energy Regulation Board (ERB). I would like to invite hon. Members who have the report to look at page 14. The Committee seems to be acknowledging that there is a problem with the cost of Jet-A1 fuel in the country. It is saying:

“However, to mitigate the high cost of aviation fuel, the Committee learned that the Government would establish a Transport Economic Regulating Unit within the Civil Aviation Authority, which, in consultation with the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), would formulate mechanisms to ensure a competitive price of aviation petroleum products, among other responsibilities.”

Madam Speaker, this is jargon. The price of aviation fuel cannot be manipulated. It cannot. One cannot use ERB and this consultation forum to lower the price of Jet-A1fuel. For any business to make sense, it must respond to the market desire. The market for Zambia cannot support the air industry, unless the Government intends to abuse the airline the way other Governments in the past like the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and the United National Independence Party (UNIP) abused Zambia Airways where people used to get free tickets to fly all over.

Madam Speaker, the Committee report has told us that the Government has put austerity measures in place to respond to the due date of the Eurobonds. This is the reason the Committee is urging the Government to shelf the plan of establishing the airline because there is a mountain to climb in 2022 when the loans are due. This is a simple and straightforward reason. Why would anyone need persuasion on a matter that is so straightforward? Teachers and nurses are not paid. In addition, all other Government workers are struggling to get their pay. Further, there is high corruption. Us who are yearning to take over the Government from the PF in 2021 will have a mountain to climb in order to service the debts which the PF Government has contracted. Therefore, we are now urging the Government not to go ahead with this plan of making an airline operational. Basopo, do not do it.

Laughter

The first Deputy Speaker: What does that mean, hon. Member?

Mr Nkombo: It means watch out. Do not continue with this plan of making an airline operational. The Committee in my view was extremely kind to the Executive by using massaging language of words like ‘postpone’ or ‘shelf’. The Committee would have just said, “No, do not do it.” This is a no go area for this Government under this economy because it cannot support this project. We have said this from day one, when one hon. Minister of Transport and Communication declared this idea. He used to sit there (pointing at the Frontbench).

Madam Speaker, he is now the chairperson for elections in the Patriotic Front (PF). We said, please do not do this because it will hurt us as a people. However, if it is the flag that they want on aircrafts, we can negotiate with Proflight or Mahogany Air to paint their aircrafts in Zambian colours and then support them so that when government workers are supposed to fly into Livingstone or to the Copperbelt. Firstly, we need to see if it can work domestically.

The day the Government will establish this airline, there will just be one pilot, first officer, cabin crew and two or three hon. Government Ministers flying to London. On whose expense will that be done? It is the taxpayers who have been put in a malaise to pay the debt that PF contracted. This humongous debt is chocking us because the Government just keeps on borrowing. We are not even sure if the Government has stopped borrowing because our colleagues are not transparent. So, on one hand, you want to carry out an impossible task while on the other hand you know very well that this is a sunken cost. The money that you would be spending would be saved. There would be no need for the Government to even stop these projects they are saying are below the 80 per cent completion point because if a project is above the 75 per cent completion point, it is as good as complete.

Madam Speaker, back home where I come from in Mazabuka, this Government commenced work on 20 km of township roads. The project was worked on up to 78 per cent, which is 2 per cent below the Government’s 80 per cent threshold, and the project stalled. The rains came and washed away everything that had been done. Hence, the project is back to square one. This is carelessness and recklessness on the part of the PF Government.

Hon. Douglas Syakalima, the chairperson of this Committee, should have been a bit sterner in the use of the language to get these colleagues to see that this is not a matter to massage. He should have put it in no uncertain terms in the Committee’s report that please, do not do this, so that when the time for posterity and judgement comes, when we do an evaluation of the PF once it has gone out of power, the Committee will say it had advised it correctly. The Committee is giving the Government an option. Why are you saying well maybe – You are doing belly dancing with them. Do not do that. These are the type of people that need to be told in no uncertain terms that what they are doing is incorrect. Together let us agree that if they make this decision, there will be collateral damage to all of us. Even in this institution here, we know that things are no longer the same way they used to be, in terms of paying people what is due to them. It is a fact, tabbatubadele –

The First Deputy Speaker: Order, order! Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, the report that you are referring to does not talk about this institution.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I withdraw what I said. The Government runs one single financing pot which we approve ourselves as the Legislature. One of the biggest functions that we have is to approve the Budget. Next year, the hon. Committee will be faced with a budget provision for this airline which will never take-off. What will it say to these same people? This would have been an opportunity for the Committee to tell the Government in no uncertain terms even repeat it five, six, seven or eight times that please, do not implement this project. Do not kill a dead horse by implementing this project. Therefore, when the acting hon. Minister of Transport and Communication goes next Monday for the Cabinet meeting, he should tell the President that I have said –

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: It is not a laughing matter.

Ms Lubezhi: You are making us laugh.

Mr Nkombo: The President is maybe not watching Parliament TV because he maybe receiving his honorary degree. I am asking my colleagues cordially that when they go to the next Cabinet meeting, they should tell the President that Gary Nkombo has said please, consider not to venture into an adventurous exercise such as this one, especially that they know that what goes up always comes down. They should try to be in the frame of mind of those people who can be advised. That is those who can listen and stop what they are doing. Even a sentence has got punctuation marks such as a comma, semi-colon and full stop.

This is dangerous unchartered waters that they want to take us into as a country. Thereafter, do not say you were not told. It is nice to fly, but do not do things for prestige. There is nothing prestigious about wanting to run an airline when you have not even put your road sector in order. We have stress on our roads and now they want to take the stress in the air. That is what they want to do, but they cannot fix the roads. Recently, I went to Kaoma to receive defectors from the PF to United Party National Development (UPND). I had a nightmare between Nkeyema and Kaoma. The road is damaged and it has been like that for a long time. Therefore, if the Government has any little money to spend, it should try to put the money where its mouth is.

Madam Speaker, the route between Walvis Bay and Copperbelt used to be through Lusaka. You may want to know that all the trucks that come from Walvis Bay into the North-Western Province carrying copper out of here use the Kaoma/Kasempa Road, which a private company has constructed. That is not disputable. A private company has started maintaining the roads, whose responsibility is for the Government. Now the Government is failing, but it wants to take the stress in the air. There is stress on the land.

Just today, the hon. Member of Parliament for Sesheke was asking Her Honour the Vice-President when the Government will deal with the works on the Livingstone/Sesheke Road, which is an economic road and the answer was zero because there is nothing happening there. They want to move the stress from Sesheke into the air. Please, colleagues, see sense in some of the things that we argue and debate about. I know it is about convincing one another, but see the sense in us not to be ridiculed when the time for posterity comes. You cannot run before you crawl. Sort out the road network and leave this airline jargon alone. Is there no sense in what I am saying? Somebody –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are trying to hold a dialogue. That is the problem.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I am a teacher by profession. Thus, when I want my students to pay attention, I engage them.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Unfortunately –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Unfortunately, those are not your students.

Laughter

The First Deputy Speaker: They are hon. Members of the Executive who you can only advise.

Continue with your debate, you have three minutes.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, sometimes we should take light moments, but I withdraw that statement. I respect these men and women because they are in Government. They are the ones running the show, but we have a responsibility to perform and to caution them. They must not throw that caution to the wind. Therefore, it was just a jest when I said I was a teacher by profession and for my pupils to listen and understand, I would want to know that I am carrying them along with me. I would need to pose questions from time to time, but I withdraw that statement, nonetheless.

Madam Speaker, I am asking the hon. Minister of Finance because the money for this airline will have to come from her ministry. Sometimes it is easy to prevail on certain people when you invoke certain other relations. My niece, do not do it. Do not fund that airline. No matter what language your colleagues use, my niece, do not do it.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Withdraw that reference to the hon. Minister as your niece. She is the hon. Minister of Finance.

Mr Nkombo: Hon. Minister of Finance, I am begging you now, because we will meet in other corners as relatives and I will tell you that I cautioned you.

Madam Speaker, you cannot wear a Pierre Cardin suit when you have not bathed. This is what I am talking about.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: We have a lot of cleaning to do in the transport sector. You cannot start flying a Boeing 747 when you cannot deal with your road network. You cannot wear a Gucci suit when you have not taken a shower. I am hopeful that these few comments, which are required to be a bit reckless so that our colleagues sit up and listen to what I am saying, so that when the time comes, we will be able to say that we told them so.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Madam Speaker, today we are required to look at the Report of the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply, but I will concentrate more on the transport sector. The main issue here is that we need to acquire a national airline which will be run by the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) even though we have no money. I would like to look at the impact of this airline on the economy of the country and the lives of Zambians.

Madam Speaker, we have no money and we are struggling to run the economy. In fact, we are not running the economy because we are operating below zero as a result of debt. On one hand, we have put measures in place to stop borrowing and told Zambians to tighten their belts to the extent that they may not remain with any notches. However, on the other hand, we want to buy an airplane. We have people starving because of droughts, boreholes are running dry and there is no food. People are starving and being forced to eat wild fruits. I heard of one person dying in Sipatunyana, but we are talking about buying a plane.

Madam Speaker, I will begin by looking at the IDC. Does this corporation have the capacity to run an airline? That is the biggest question that we have to ask here. When we analysed the IDC last year, we came to the conclusion that it had a lot of problems. Its structure is problematic. The IDC lacks the capacity and qualified personnel to run all these industries in the country. There are very few parastatals that fall under the IDC that are making a profit, if there are any at all. It is struggling to survive, but on top of this, we want to overburden it by giving it a national airline to run. This on its own is wrong. You cannot have the IDC run the national airline because it has no capacity. The few parastatals that it is running have not done well. How then do we give it a national airline to run? This is the first mistake.

Madam Speaker, the proponents of the national airline are saying they will break even within three years. How do you break even when the economy is not doing well? Zambians now have different priorities. If there is one thing that is difficult to do in this country, it is running a business. People are not making profits. They are struggling to pay workers. Therefore, the mode of air travel is not an option for Zambians. Which people will use the airline?

Madam Speaker, like my colleague from Mazabuka Central said, he was in a thirty sitter plane which was only carrying five people, but they want to bring a big aircraft on credit. When you borrow, you must pay back. They do not even have a dollar, but they want to borrow money to buy an airline when they have roads that have potholes and so on and so forth. To me, the rationale behind this plan tells you the capacity and degree of vision of the people who are leading this country. They have no clue on what is supposed to be done. This mathematics is totally wrong.

Let me now quote the impact of the debt. Page 12 at part (a) states:

“Risk of Worsening the Fiscal Imbalances

By establishing the airline, the country risked deepening the fiscal imbalances as the macroeconomics –”

Dr Kopulande: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kopulande: Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to raise a point of order and forgive me for disturbing the hon. Member’s line of thinking. Is the hon. Member debating in order to impersonate our able Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon. Malanji, whose face is showing on the screen? Can the hon. Member not delay his debate until his actual identity is established on the system as we are now being misled?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am sure the Information and Communication Technology (ICT) Department has taken note of that point of order and will make the necessary correction.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The ruling is that he is not out of order because he is not in charge of the technical arrangements. However, the ICT Department will take care of that so that we have – I think we are okay now.

Hon. Member for Kalomo Central, please continue with your debate.

Mr Kamboni: Madam Speaker, I will begin by reading the quotation again. The report states:

“By establishing the airline, the country risked deepening the fiscal imbalances as the macroeconomic position of Zambia had weakened in the past few years. The resultant regular and widening fiscal deficit meant more borrowing for the Government, with debt increasing to levels where sustainability had become a major concern for the country.”

Madam Speaker, I salute the Committee for coming up with this assessment. People are concerned. If we borrow now while we are struggling to pay our monthly dues – I am told we need about US$400 million to service only the interest before we begin to reduce the loans themselves. We are really struggling to get this US$400 million and even the tollgates and other means have failed to meet these demands. In some cases, we have even failed to meet the obligation to pay this interest in some sectors like for the jet last month.

Madam Speaker, we are struggling to pay the interest on these loans. Life has changed for the majority of Zambians with the exception of the Executive. The Executive and other leaders are enjoying as they have all the money they need while we are suffering. The point I am trying to make is that if we are borrowing this money for a plane that will not make any profit, that is a bridge too far because the breakeven point is said to be in three years. The impact of this is that the economy will be worse than it is.

Madam Speaker, I want to belabour more on the breakeven point. The breakeven point refers to the level where you begin to make profit when you are doing business. It is not true that we can begin to make profit within three years of acquiring the airplanes. That mathematics is totally wrong. Looking at the economic environment in the country, the competition of airlines and how even major airlines are making losses, it is not true. If what they are doing is wrong right from the planning phase, how do they hope to make progress? This airline will not breakeven within three years. That is not possible. In fact, as they go further, it will become worse because of the economic environment in this country. It seems only those who are suffering are seeing the economic environment the country is experiencing. Those who are in leadership who are in their air-conditioned rooms are enjoying. They do not see the suffering of the people. That is why they are thinking of the airline which will make the economic position of the country worse than it is.

Madam Speaker, let me quote the report on page 15, on point number twelve which states:

“The future economic outlook of Zambia suggested some instability in the Kwacha as Eurobond payment became due …. a weaker Kwacha may mean higher costs in the local currency terms and this may negatively impact on the company’s projected profit margin.”

Madam Speaker, it is very difficult to plan when you have a currency that is unstable. The Kwacha is not stable. Zambians who owe local commercial banks are being called back by their banks to inform them that they have increased the interest rates. How do they then plan? The adjustments are because of the Kwacha’s instability, and now, we want to do something again that will make the Kwacha even more unstable.

Madam Speaker, how does the instability of the Kwacha affect the setup of the airline? The indication is that this airline will not be serving food so that it can offer cheaper fares. How do you make fares cheap when the Kwacha rate to a US Dollar will keep fluctuating for the worse? When the Kwacha loses value, it naturally means the price has to go up, and that affects profit calculations. Therefore, it is not possible to make good profit when you have a currency which is not stable. The Committee did a good job to come up with this fact, and I hope it will be listened to. You cannot plan very well when you have a currency that is not stable, and then you want to do something that will make the Kwacha possibly faint for a long time.

Madam Speaker, I think it is not a good idea to think of setting up a national airline at the moment. Yes, the country needs an airline, but you can only do what you can afford. When you cannot afford something, the idea of wanting to over borrow and put all systems at risk, simply because of your appetite of keeping up appearances is not good.

Madam Speaker, on page 31, under (a), the report talks about the currency again. I would like the House to listen very carefully to the following:

“The country is currently grappling with a huge debt burden and the proposal to allow the ID to borrow its capital financing will lead to a deepening of Zambia’s fiscal challenges ....”

Madam Speaker, again, we see that the witnesses who were called are very worried and are losing confidence in us. What we are suggesting is the same as a father who fails to take his children to school, yet wants to buy a plane or fly to England. Surely, you cannot have nothing but borrow to fly out to England to see a friend, leaving your children out of school and with nothing to eat. This scenario will not give any confidence to those being looked after. They will wonder what is wrong with such a father.

Madam Speaker, I think the Committee did a good job, and it is very important for people in leadership to follow what is being said. One thing that is worrying me is that the recommendations of these Committees are not being listened to. Being a President of a country is very easy. The hon. Members of Parliament do the work for you and give you a report. All you need to do is read and implement what is in the reports. These reports have very valid information on changing the country. Our failure is that we do not see these reports put to action by the Government. They only end up on the shelves, and we continue on a wrong path. Then I begin to think, why do we need to borrow again? Is it because we have exaggerated the prices? I really do not know.

Madam Speaker, I have another quote I would like us to look at. It is on page 31. This paragraph is very important. Remember that this report was done by a Committee which is a combination of independent hon. Members, hon. Members from the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the Patriotic Front (PF). Of course, the Chairperson was from the mighty UPND. The last paragraph on page 31 reads:

“The Committee strongly recommends that in the best interest of the nation, the establishment of the national airline be deferred until all the concerns raised are adequately attended to. The Committee further recommends that in the meantime, the country should focus on policies which will benefit the majority of its citizens ....”

Madam Speaker, this is how the Committee concluded its findings. I was not there, but I agree with it. Though, like my colleagues said, the Committee tried to be polite. This project is just a non-starter. Thus, it should not be allowed to take off. Yes, we need a national airline, but when you weigh what it will bring and the expected negative impact on the economy, the ordinary Zambian, health institutions, and the education sector, I can safely say we do not need it. Already, we are struggling to fulfill all our social responsibilities on education, health, and agriculture. We are not doing well in everything, and then we want to bring another thing that will cause more problems. It is like you are married to one wife and struggling with feeding your family, yet marry three more, which is adding salt to the problem which already exists.

Madam Speaker, it is very important that we are understood very well. We are not saying the national airline is not needed. We do need it if we can afford it. Here it is a question of affordability. This is wrong timing. Establishing a national airline will affect the economy negatively and it will impact us very badly. We should not only postpone it, but do it when the economy is stable, and this economy will only stabilise when UPND is in power.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I would like the Executive to really take this report very seriously. This report has adequate information, and the point is that the airline should be established because it will worsen the condition of our economy. If the Government has money, it should please bring it so that I can drill boreholes in sixty-six schools in my constituency which are about to close due to lack of water. With the same money, we can provide water for animals and take relief food to the Southern Province, Western Province and Central Province, where the people are starving. We can also pay the agro-dealers who are looking at us with a bad eye because we have failed them. They supplied fertilizer, but they have not yet been paid. Even farmers who sold maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) have not been paid yet. So, if the Government has money, it should sort out these issues first.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to make some remarks on the report by the Committee on Transport, Works and Supply. This report is very good because it is analytical and truthful. Further, the advice contained therein is just the right kind which these colleagues in the Government need, and if they deviate from it, they will be doing harm to the economy of this country. I, therefore, urge the Government to be humble and accept this advice.

Madam Speaker, I want to remind these colleagues that similar advice has been provided in the past. That is for example, the advice on slowing down on debt. In the last five years, we have been advising this Government to slow down on debt contraction. We told them that one day, they will fail to pay salaries, but they disregarded that advice, and now it is happening. I hope the advice contained in this report today will not be disregarded in the same manner as the advice on slowing down on debt acquisition.

Madam Speaker, as we speak right now, there are already two Zambian owned airlines operating in Zambia, namely Proflight and Mahogany Air. These airlines are struggling, as the report says. They are barely surviving because the buying power for the people to buy tickets to travel to places such as Mongu and Mansa is not there. Even the route to the Copperbelt that you would expect to be busy is not flourishing. Hon. Nkombo told us how he was on a flight to the Copperbelt where there were only five passengers on board against thirty seats. Yes, these flights may be full today, but the airlines are basically struggling. Now, this Government wants to kill these two airlines that are struggling by opening the national airline. If these two airlines are struggling, why should we introduce the third one? If we do that, it will mean that one airline will have to go under. If there are two Zambian airlines which are operational, why would we want to kill them by operating –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Withdraw the word, ‘kill’. It is unparliamentary to use it in the context in which you are using it. It cannot be allowed. Withdraw it.

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word, ‘Kill’ and I …

Mr Nkombo: Wipe out!

Dr Musokotwane: … replace it with ‘wipe out’ or …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Or obliterate!

Dr Musokotwane: … ‘obliterate’, as someone said. These are Zambian companies which are employing Zambians. I doubt whether there are even Ethiopians there. Why do we want to see these two companies go down in the name of introducing a national airline? Who are we serving? Are we serving the Zambians or Ethiopians?

Madam Speaker, one time, we asked the hon. Minister responsible for transport and communication of how he was going to manage that airline the Government wants to introduce in this tough economic environment. He said that it would introduce airline services to places such as Mansa and other places in Zambia. If there was a viable market in those places, why are these private airlines already existing not flying there? The only reason these private airlines are not flying to Mansa, Kalabo and Sesheke is because there is no market there. If the Government is going to fly to places which are not viable, as many people have said, this is the quickest way in which this Government airline is going to fall. When it shuts down, the employees will come and demand for their gratuities and other dues. We should also bear in mind that we have just introduced a law in this country that makes it even more expensive to liquidate a company.

Madam Speaker, today, there are a number of international airlines that are already serving Zambia. Some of them are South African Airways (SAA), Emirates, Ethiopian Airlines and Kenya Airways. The point I am trying to make is that I have not heard of anyone who has ever failed to fly to Greece, Lagos or Japan due to the absence of airline services to those countries. So, why are we trying to introduce an airline that will fly to Athens or Turkey when it will mean that the operations of this airline will be sustained by the Zambian taxpayers? What are we trying to achieve? This reminds me exactly of the example I gave the other day, where we are trying to wear very nice suits when our underwear is torn and looks like nets.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: We are trying to prove that we are looking very nice when in fact, we ...

Mr Nkombo: We did not take a bath!

Dr Musokotwane: … did not even take a bath, as Hon. Nkombo said.

Madam Speaker, this issue is about pride and not economic prudence. I know someone will say it will not be a Government owned, but private airline. As many people have stated, I do not believe that either. The Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) which is chaired by the President is deeply involved in the establishment of the airline. I already believe that there was US$30 million out of public funds whether from the Treasury or IDC already committed to this airline. If this airline gets into trouble, I can bet that pressure will mount on the Treasury to subside it.

Madam Speaker, we should not pretend that this is not a public, but private airline. This is an airline that is going to always knock on the door of the Treasury for funding. Why do we want to commit public funds in an adventure that we know will not succeed?

Madam Speaker, I have also heard arguments that these foreign airlines are finishing the foreign exchange in Zambia and if we establish our own airline, we are going to save foreign exchange. My advice is that whether the airline is Government owned or in private hands, the impact on foreign exchange makes very little difference. This is because most of the expenses of an airline are in foreign exchange whether or not it is publicly owned. The fuel, spare parts, pilots and the planes have to be paid for in United States Dollars. If Zambia wants to conserve foreign exchange, there is need to ensure that Government office furniture is not imported, but bought locally.

Madam Speaker, we need to promote Zambian industries that produce mango, orange and guava juices, for instance, instead of buying imported products in our supermarkets. I am giving these examples because they can easily be supported by the Government. It is easier to promote industries that are going to produce local juices and furniture than attempting to pretend to save foreign exchange on airlines that you do not understand. This argument of wanting to promote local airlines to save foreign exchange is false and it does not work. This will just put the country into deeper problems.

Madam Speaker, in my closing remarks, I want to remind the House of what I said the other day. For every K1 of tax revenue collected in this country, 87n goes to pay salaries and debt servicing, leaving only 13n for everything else.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Now what these colleagues are proposing the establishment of the national airline, it means that that 13n that remains after paying salaries and serving debt is even going to be less. We may end up with only maybe 10n, 9n or even 8n of every K1 that we collect in taxes for everything else. This is happening at a time when half of the population of this country is almost starving because of the drought that we experienced last season. We are not providing enough relief food in the wards. In fact, we are not doing so in all the wards in Liuwa. For example, a ward is about four to five thousand people. How much of the allocated relief maize is being delivered? It is only eighty 50 kg bags of maize relief for five thousand people. Indeed, somebody said that we have plenty of maize in Kalabo this morning, but the point is that we do not know where this maize is going to. In the wards there is hardly any relief maize going there.

Mr Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: So, we want to reduce this 13n of what remains after debt servicing and paying salaries at a time when people are starving. Instead of feeding our people, we want to put the money in the running of an airline.

Madam Speaker, the other day we were talking about service delivery in health. By service delivery, we are not talking about buildings. You can construct structures, but that is not equal to the delivery of health services. Is the medicine there?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: I told you very clearly –

Mr Ngulube: Question!

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: My brother here, Hon. Miyutu, before we came here went to Yuka Hospital in Kalabo. The doctors told him that the only medicine that is there is Panado and things like that. He is here you can ask him.

Interruptions

Mr Ngulube: Airline!

Dr Musokotwane: The connection with the airline −

Dr Musokotwane: (Addressing Mr Ngulube) Pay attention and learn to connect ideas.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: The connection, to teach that hon. Member of Parliament, is that if you waste money on an airline that will be unviable, it means that medicines will not be available. So, if you cannot understand that, maybe you need to go back to college.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, we are at the time when the service delivery in our hospitals is struggling. We are at a time when we do not have teachers in our schools. I have said this over and over in the last five years, that in many of our constituencies, you will be lucky to find three teachers in a school from Grade 1 to 7. You will find two or three teachers only. In basic schools which run from Grade 1 to 9, it is very common to find only three teachers. Are there no trained teachers? They are there, but there is no money to hire them. So, at a time when you cannot put teachers in schools, you want to take this adventure of reducing your budgetary resources further by going into an adventure of an airline. Colleagues, does that make sense?

Hon. UPND Members: No!

Mr Sing’ombe: Masholi!

Dr Musokotwane: It does not make sense.

Madam Speaker, as I sit down, I want to conclude by saying that this report is very good, important and truthful. If this report is rejected, it will be a very sad day for Zambia and for those children in Liuwa, Kalabo Central and Mporokoso who only have two teachers in a school of Grade 1 to 7.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will mix up this debate a little bit. Let us hear from the hon. Member for Senga Hill.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear! Ema engineers aba!

Ms Lubezhi: Boring!

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Madam Speaker, this is a very important report. Of course, a lot of fear has been raised which needs to be considered. It is important to understand that you can only make money by spending money. There is no way we can expect to make money if we do not want to spend money.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: There is no way.

Madam Speaker, this is one sector that has been abandoned by this Government for a long time. Almost every Government wants to run an airline for various reasons. If you really want to promote tourism, you need to be there for the people who want to come to your country, and it is very difficult to do that for them if you do not have a national airline. When we talk about why people are not travelling in this country, it is important to also recognise that so many people are moving from one place to another in Zambia. I think there about twenty buses travelling from Mbala to Lusaka every day. I am very sure these people would love to fly.

Laughter

Mr Simbao: I am very sure these people would love to fly, and I will tell you why. I am coming to that issue –

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Members, let us have some silence.

You may continue, hon. Member for Senga Hill.

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, I am amazed that some people think that people just love to come to Lusaka by bus. I am surprised. Of course, people are not travelling by air for two reasons. One, there are no planes flying from Mbala, and two, maybe the fares are high, like somebody said. That is what we have to look at. We do not have to look at the reason we cannot provide planes. We have to look at why it is expensive to travel by air. That is what we have to look at. That is what the Government must do.

Madam Speaker, having a national airline is common in many places. Those who have read about South Korea know this. The South Korean Government had to subsidise most of the things in their economy. It had to subsidise many farmers for them to grow more rice. So, our Government should look at why air transport is so expensive in the country. My people from Mbala want to fly, if you do not know that. Of course, they do not have the means to do that, but they want to fly to different places. So, the Government must look at why is it so expensive that people cannot fly to different places. When we talk about issues to do with the national airline, people must understand that this is the norm for governments. There are very few governments that do not have national airlines, and one of them is Zambia. I cannot think of any other governments. I know that Zimbabwe and Malawi have national airlines. Almost every country surrounding us has a national airline.

Madam Speaker, we must be careful when we try to discourage certain moves by the Government. I am not saying this can happen, but I know that people discourage a Government to do most things, but when there is a change of Government, the first thing the new Government will do is implement the things that the previous Government was discouraged from doing. This is what happens in most cases. Good ideas are fought, but when different people take over the Government, the first thing they do is implement the ideas that were fought. So, discouraging the present Government from implementing this idea is not positive. Instead, we must think that it will be very good for a person to spend very little time travelling because of the airline to be introduced. I spend twelve hours on the road to Mbala, which is so dangerous. I would love to fly in just two hours to get here. It is the same thing for people who live very far from here. Therefore, I agree with the hon. Member for Kalomo. He said that it is not that we do not need a national airline, but that the timing is not right. The issue of timing is what the Government can look at. It can see how the country can quicken the addressing of this matter. Maybe this is the time, and the addressing of this issue has to be quickened.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: So, it is not just an issue of thinking that it is not right for Zambia to embark on a national airline project. That reasoning is not correct. People must understand that at times, we tend to talk in a way that we make the people listening to us out there believe what we are saying, and this is not correct.

Madam Speaker, most hon. Members of Parliament, especially those who come from the Northern Province, want Kasama Airport to be completed so that planes can start flying to Kasama. If anything, everyone in this House knows that the more airlines the country has, the cheaper the tickets become. Everyone knows that it is just a question of supply and demand. Now, if we keep saying that we should just maintain one or two airlines, the prices will remain like this. When there was only one airline, Proflight, it was so expensive to go to Solwezi because the price people used to pay for the air ticket was as high as a price for a ticket to fly to South Africa, because there was only one airline. So, if we have more airlines in Zambia, the price of air tickets will come down. Of course, the Government must look at this issue to find out why the cost of fuel is expensive. However, we should not say that there is no need to establish the national airline. We should look at the problems that are making airlines difficult to operate. That is what we should look at.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I have a request from the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs because he wants to contribute to the debate.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Malanji): Madam Speaker, much as we agree with the good submissions in the report, when it come to the establishment of the national airline, I would like to state that all Zambians will benefit from this airline, whether they belong to the United Party for National Development (UPND) or the Patriotic Front (PF).

Madam Speaker, first of all, we must look at the infrastructure which we have put in place. For instance, there are three airports under construction in Ndola, Lusaka and Livingstone to a tune of US$1 billion. The alliance the country has engaged in with an outside airline is not cast in concrete because there is an exit clause. So, if we see that it is not performing, we can always move to Plan B. Of course, the matter will be required to come to Parliament for approval when it reaches an advanced stage. Further, there are other airlines offering to bring in money to a tune of US$100 million to have a School of Excellence to train pilots in this country. The old Ndola Airport is meant for that. Therefore, the Government is looking at giving it to the same airline which wants to come and establish the School of Excellence in Zambia.

Madam Speaker, looking at Zambia’s position geographically, the Government is considering having a direct flight from Lusaka to Guangzhou, Beijing, South Korea’s Seoul and back. The Government is looking at having flights from Lusaka to Egypt and Mumbai. When one looks at the co-ordination the host ministry is engaged in, you will see that the Government is not dreaming. Unlike the previous speaker said, for one to get money, one has to spend money. The agreements are also looking at empowering potential auxiliary facilities. The Government is looking at all the magazines on tourism to be produced by Zambians. This is another avenue that is going to empower the Government Printers. The Government is not looking at the airline only, as it is being perceived –

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_______

The House adjourned at 1256 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 25^th June, 2019.

___________

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