Wednesday, 21st February, 2018

Wednesday, 21^st February, 2018

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: I have received communication to the effect that, in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other Government business, the Chief Whip, Hon. Stephen Chungu, MP, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House today, Wednesday, 21^st February, 2018 until further notice.

I thank you.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

SALE OF THE NATIONAL RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT COLLEGE (NRDC)

The Minister of Agriculture (Mr Katambo): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver a statement on the alleged sale of the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC). This statement has been necessitated by the need to inform the House and the nation at large on the state of the college.

Sir, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has prioritised agriculture, as one sector to spearhead the country’s economic growth agenda. To this effect, the country requires well- qualified manpower to impart modern agricultural skills into our farmers in order to raise agriculture productivity and production. The NRDC offers nine diploma courses in the field of agriculture and related subjects. The college is affiliated to the University of Zambia (UNZA), which provides quality assurance. It is also linked to the Health Professional Council of Zambia (HPCZ) because it offers a food and nutritional course. Further, the college is regulated by the Teaching Council of Zambia, as an educational college specialising in agriculture.

Mr Speaker, recently, there has been an outcry from some members of the public who have been alleging that the Government has sold the NRDC, which falls under the Ministry of Agriculture. The Government has not sold the NRDC.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, on 31^st January, 2018, the then Chief Government spokesperson issued a statement on this matter, and I would like to echo what she said at that time. The NRDC was built in 1965 to carter for a student population of 300. The student population has since increased to 2,024, and it is projected that the college student population will hit 4,000 by 2019. It is obvious that the current infrastructure cannot cope with such an anticipated high number of students. The college can only accommodate not more than 650 students, who will have to share rooms while the rest of the students either come from their homes or rent boarding houses around the college.

Sir, the college also shares infrastructure facilities which are the office and classroom blocks and hostels with the In-Service Training Trust. This further exerts pressure on college facilities.

Mr Speaker, the college infrastructure has also remained underdeveloped and has been dilapidating over the years. It sits on a land size of 304 ha, and it is surrounded by residential areas, namely Mtendere, Presidential Housing Initiative (PHI) and Avondale, with no room for expansion whatsoever.

Sir, let me inform the House and the nation at large that in 2007, Chief Shakumbila of Mumbwa District came to the aid of the Government and offered 1662.23 ha of land to the NRDC. This land offer was confirmed by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, when he visited Mumbwa and met with Chief Shakumbila in 2016.

Mr Speaker, in 2017, the Government received an unsolicited bid from Aviation Industry Corporate of China (AVIC) International to develop a brand new NRDC at the land in Mumbwa. Given its foresight, the PF Government accepted the offer by AVIC International and signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU), which is an expression of intent. In the MoU, AVIC International proposes to construct a financial centre at the current NRDC Lusaka College. Once developed, the financial centre will bring a new look to the city of Lusaka and it will create employment opportunities for Zambians.

Mr Speaker, the Government is waiting for a detailed proposal from AVIC International on the planned development of the NRDC Campus in Shibuyunji. One of the benefits of having a new NRDC Campus is that it will offer a conducive learning environment for students who will be able to learn and undertake practical applications in agriculture. Furthermore, once developed, the new NRDC will be self-sustaining, as it will engage in income generating activities given the abundant land of 1,662.23 ha.

Sir, the current NRDC Campus clearly does not offer a conducive environment for both students and lecturers. Therefore, the move by the Government to build a new NRDC Campus should be supported by all well-meaning Zambians.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement issued by the hon. Minister.

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, from the hon. Minister’s statement, it appears Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) International has a lot of resources to develop another Natural Resources Development College (NRDC). Is the hon. Minister telling this House and the nation at large that the Government cannot expand the existing NRDC and that only the one to be built in Shibuyunji can be expanded? Is the Government not just interested in the prime land on which the NRDC is sitting at the moment? If it is about expansion due to shortages of space and environment for lectures, I believe the Government can still put up the facilities that it wants to put up in Shibuyunji.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I have indicated that the NRDC sits on 304 ha and is surrounded by residential areas which are Mutendere, PHI and Avondale. The land space is very small. There was also encroachment within the area. Hence, there was erection of a wall just to curb the encroachers. The land space is very limited. The college needs facilities for cattle rearing, as the other ranch which the NRDC had was degazetted and given out as residential plots.

Sir, I appreciate the question from the hon. Member, but the amount of land where the NRDC is currently located is very limited and the college needs more space for expansion.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Katuta (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I would like to differ with the hon. Minister of Agriculture. Initially, he mentioned that the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) has not been sold and there has been an outcry from the public that it sits on a water table. So, the hon. Minister cannot say that he wants to develop a new NRDC on the 1,600 ha. Why is it that we cannot have NRDC city campus and also have another area where we can have the ranch?

Sir, I am aware that there used to be Obama land. It was not degazetted, but it was encroached upon and the Government at the time decided to give out part of the land to the workers at the NRDC. I am asking the Patriotic Front (PF) Government to leave the NRDC as it is. It is a historical school which should be left where it is, as a city campus and then Shibuyunji can be kept as a ranch.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Katuta: Mr Speaker, we need this city campus because there have been a lot of controversies surrounding Aviation Industry Corporation of Chin (AVIC) International.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Ms Katuta: You can question, but this will haunt you later. Please, do not sell the NRDC. Give it back to the Zambian people and develop the ranch in Shibuyunji. Leave the city campus and come up with another place for practicals.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: Ubomba mwibala!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, the land has not been sold, as I have explained. The MoU, as explained in my ministerial statement, is intent of expression.

Sir, the Obama land that the hon. Member is referring to, which was a ranch for the NRDC, has been degazetted. The Ministry of Lands demarcated and surveyed the land and citizens have built on it. It was 1,500 ha and all of it has been taken.

Mr Speaker, there is a need for us, as hon. Members, to let the final details of the MoU, which is a developmental proposal that will be made public, emerge ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Dr Kambwili: Stop it!

Mr Katambo: ... and Parliament approve.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kambwili: That is nonsense!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, modern infrastructure is very important. Let us look at the positives and not the negatives for the good of our students.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lusambo interjected.

Mr Kambwili: Nkesa kukaka!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Can we have some order on the right!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, this kind of ...

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Take your seats, hon. Members.

Mr Speaker: I know this is a very charged issue, clearly, from the outset. Firstly, let us be orderly and secondly, I am not taking points of order.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I believe the hon. Minister of Agriculture is new in this ministry, but I am sure that it was a Cabinet decision that is causing him to do what he is doing. It is a generally accepted convention under parliamentary practice that when you make reference to a document, which he is calling a memorandum of understanding (MoU) and an expression of intent at the same time, you lay that document on the Table. Does he mind laying that document on the Table because he made reference to it so that when we engage him and his Government, which is a primary suspect of selling this piece of land belonging to the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC), they can be acquitted of this accusation? I am quite certain he has that document he referred to. Is it possible that he can lay it on this Table so that we can see the exact provisions of that MoU, which he is calling an expression of intent when to me the two are ...

Mr Speaker: I think you have made your point.

Mr Nkombo: ... mutually exclusive. It can only be one or the other.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, from the onset let me indicate my displeasure. This is an honourable House. There are people who are calm, cool and are able to listen. I am able to listen and take advice from any hon. Member. However, the way Hon. Kambwili has come in and called me a thief is not good.

Interruptions

Dr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Katambo: You said so. I am your brother. How can you say something like that?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, take your seat.

Let me give guidance. There are channels of expressing grievances.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Whatever is uttered within the four corners of this Chamber is recorded. I can assure you of that. So, if you have any grievance, please, do not hesitate to communicate it. In the meantime, let us focus on our business.

I have mentioned clearly that this is a very emotive subject but nonetheless, we still have to proceed in an orderly fashion.

May the hon. Minister, please, continue.

Mr Katambo: He is closer here so …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Sikazwe: Finshi mulekama nomba?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister!

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, as I explained in the ministerial statement, an MoU is a document of expression of intent. This can …

Mr Nkombo: Lay it on the Table.

Mr Katambo: I will lay it on the Table for the sake of proof.

Hon. Opposition Members interrupted.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, take a seat.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, …

Mr Katambo: Yes, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: I think you need to appreciate that you are dealing with an emotive subject. That being the case, it is advisable that you maintain temperament.

Mr Lusambo: Yes!

Mr Chitotela: Forget about them.

Mr Speaker: If you are emotionally charged, we will not proceed properly.

Hon. Minister, please, continue.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I am so humbled by your advice and guidance.

Sir, like I have indicated to this honourable House, the MoU is an expression of intent. The Cabinet has not approved it. Any decision can be changed. We are able to listen to citizens so that we come up with what they would want.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: We are a listening Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: His Excellency the President is a listening leader. I will even lay the MoU on the Table of the House …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: … for you, hon. Members, to peruse through and give ideas and intentions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, what hon. Members should understand is that we should deal with positives for the good of the students.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: If we dwell on the negatives, the students will suffer. The students are living in rooms that are overcrowded. The college is supposed to accommodate 304 students, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Katambo went silent.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lusambo: Talk, talk!

Mr Katambo: ... then, there are about three to four students in a single room, which is not conducive for our children.

I will lay the MoU on the Table of the House.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katambo laid the document on the Table of the House.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to seek clarification from the hon. Minister. Allow me to congratulate the hon. Minister of Agriculture for the statement that he has given. I want him to clarify whether there have been other institutions or people who have been soliciting to buy off or move into NRDC land other than Aviation Industry Corporation of Chin (AVIC) International, whose name has become so famous?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, there have been several unsolicited offers for the NRDC land. Most offers have been for part of the land, such as a hectare or two, and not the whole area. These offers proposed construction of a hotel, hospital and a shopping mall, especially on the frontage of the NRDC land, but the offer from AVIC International has been the most comprehensive to date.

Mr Mwiinga: Question!

Mr Katambo: Let me be honest, AVIC International’s offer has been the most comprehensive to date.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just said that the 304 have not been sold and that there is an offer of 1,662.23 ha by the chief. However, the hon. Minister has not told us what the Government intends to do with the 304 ha where the students are.

Mr Speaker, we have thousands of students at the University of Zambia (UNZA), but we have not looked for some other land.

Mr Kamboni: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Why are we interested in the NRDC land?

Hon. Opposition Members: Eh!

Mr Mutelo: Will the Government sell UNZA as well?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: We maintain a one question rule per hon. Member. So, the hon. Minister can only respond to the first question.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I indicated that the current NRDC is seating on 304 ha. The infrastructure there is dilapidated. There is 1,662.23 ha, which has been given by His Royal Highness Chief Shakumbila in Mumbwa, on which AVIC International hopes to build bigger infrastructure for the NRDC in Shibuyunji. Apart from the brand new NRDC in Mumbwa, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, as I said, accepted the offer from AVIC International and signed an MoU, which is an expression of intent. So, what is there is that the space is not conducive for our children.

Mr Lusambo: Yes!

Mr Katambo: Let us be clear. The bed space at the NRDC is too small. The college was constructed in 1965 to cater for 300 students. For now, as we talk, I gave the figure, there are more students and by 2019, there will be about 4,000 students.

Mr Speaker, 300 students, then, and 4,000 students now occupying the same bed space, of course, hon. Members know that this is not a conducive environment for students as they are overcrowded in one room. Hence, when the chief gave us that space, we thought it would benefit the NRDC if someone expressed interest in building a bigger structure on the piece of land. We will all benefit from this investment. These investments have been on-going. Even other countries have made such investments. However, it is up to you to judge us, as a listening Government.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Jamba (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, maybe, the question should not be whether the area where the NRDC is currently located is too small or that the students are congested. The question which is bothering Zambians is: Why Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC) International?

Mr Lusambo: What are you talking about?

Mr Jamba: You have to ex …

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Wait …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, please, put a specific question of clarification.

Mr Jamba: Yes.

Mr Speaker, the issue here is that people are saying that AVIC International is getting all the projects in Zambia and, then, …

Mr Chitotela: That is not true, iwe!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, take a seat.

You know, the difficulty you are having is that you want to debate. You want to talk about what the people are saying. It is very simple. The hon. Minister made a statement and this is an opportunity to clarify it. However, you want to debate.

Ms Lubezhi: There are tempers in here.

Mr Speaker: Ask a question. Even on this subject, you could ask a question. Ask a question, if you can.

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Why do people want to control others as if they are the ones who sent them here?

Interruptions

Mr Jamba: Mr Speaker, will this Government not listen to the plea of the people to have the sale of the NRDC tendered so that anyone who is interested can come on board since it is said that AVIC International is a conduit of corruption?

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I will repeat myself. In my statement, I said that there have been several unsolicited offers on the NRDC land. Most of the offers have been for part of the NRDC and not the whole area. Let me also state that there have been many offers that have been proposed, but we picked on AVIC International. Other companies offered to build hotels and hospitals. Another company offered to build a shopping mall on the frontage of the NRDC. Looking at all these offers, the one which was most comprehensive was the one for AVIC International.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, if at all the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is of the people, by the people and for the people, this Government should stop the sale of the NRDC because the people have spoken. In responding to the question raised by the hon. Member for Mitete, the hon. Minister did mention that the reason this Government has decided to sell the NRDC is because it cannot maintain it. Is it Government policy to dispose of public property whenever it fails to maintain it?

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, let me emphasise that it is not a sale. The MoU with AVIC International proposes the contraction of a financial centre at the current NRDC, Lusaka Campus. Once developed, the financial centre will bring a new outlook to the city of Lusaka and will create employment opportunities for Zambians. That is the intention of this Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question from the hon. Member is that: Is it the policy of the Government to elect to dispose of property whenever it is unable to maintain it? That is the question.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, it is not Government policy to sell off Government properties. I have already elaborated why AVIC International, amongst the other companies which tendered for the same land, was offered the institution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, I would like to start by observing that the hon. Minister is using the word, …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, take a seat. Unfortunately, this is not a platform for that observation. If you have no question through which to seek clarification, give way to your colleagues who may have points of clarification instead of using this as a platform to make observations. Do you have a question?

Mr Mbangweta: Yes, I have a question.

Mr Speaker: Proceed.

Mr Mbangweta: Mr Speaker, is it a new policy of this Government to sell assets which belong to the Zambian people?

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, it is not Government policy to sell Government properties, be it land, vehicles or infrastructure.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwene (Mangango): Mr Speaker, suppose we went ahead with the intent, which the Zambians are refusing, what will happen to the already existing infrastructure at the NRDC?

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I stated in my statement that in the MoU, AVIC International Project Engineering Company proposes to construct a financial centre at the current NRDC, Lusaka Campus. Once developed, the financial centre will bring a new look to Lusaka City and create employment opportunities for Zambians.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, probably, what the hon. Member is trying to establish is whether the existing property will be maintained or it will be removed. I think that is the gist of the question.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, the property will be redeveloped. Like I said in the statement, currently, it is in a deplorable state.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, as you have rightly stated that this is a very emotive issue because it involves the assets of the people of Zambia. I am aware that the hon. Minister is new in the ministry, but he has also been running the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries, which ministry deals with issues of agricultural land. The hon. Minister is aware that the land under the jurisdiction of Chief Shakumbila on which the Government has the intention of taking the NRDC is subject of a very serious dispute of land and the people are alleging that the chief, without authority from the people, is giving away land.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the NRDC has 304 ha of land. He is also aware that less than 20 per cent of that land is developed. Why would the Government want to give more than 180 ha to a private international company to put up a financial centre? Why not take them to the Multi-Facility Economic Zone (MFEZ), which is not developed, in Lusaka.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, Chief Shakumbila is a custodian of the land in his chiefdom. As the Government, we thank him for giving His Excellency the President, the leader of this nation, the 1,662.23 ha of land to the NRDC and this was confirmed. Of course, if there were land disputes, the chief would not have taken this route. The chief gave this land to the nation so that it can be developed in the way I have stated in the statement. I have said that from 1965 to date, there has never been no proper maintenance of the NRDC. Most of the infrastructure at that college is dilapidated and the space is quite small for the students. That is why we came up with the idea of getting the land which was offered to us by the chief. I have stated that students need practical subjects, such as cattle rearing, but the land on which the NRDC is located cannot accommodate cattle. We, therefore, need to have a bigger piece of land. Currently, the land on which the NRDC sits is just too small and it is surrounded by township residential areas.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, please, ask only one question. I will not oblige the hon. Minister to respond to other questions if you will go beyond the only question you are permitted to ask.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the land is small. It is 304 ha and the buildings are dilapidated. These are the two situations arising from the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC). The third situation is that the Government has been offered land in Chief Shakumbila’s Chiefdom of 1,662.23 ha. This is 2018. If the Government wants to develop the NRDC Campus in Lusaka, would it not be possible to demolish the structures on the piece of land where the NRDC currently sits and come up with ariel development?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Michelo: We do not know, Sir.

Mr Speaker: No, the question is properly directed to me …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … because I am chairing the proceedings.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member must also take into account the financial resources. I have indicated that the Government will follow the provisions of the Public Private Partnership (PPP) Act before the implementation. We will also await a detailed proposal from AVIC International on the planned development of the NRDC Campus in Mumbwa. We will compare and, then, you will have your bigger voice.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to congratulate the hon. Minister on his appointment. I would like to find out how the chief has been allowed to allocate land more than is stipulated by law? According to law, a chief can only allocate a maximum of 250 ha. How has the chief gone beyond this extent? Are there any special arrangements?

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, the chief has given 1,662.23 ha. It could be in portions of 250 ha …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Let us have some order!

Mr Katambo: … and for sure if the hon. Member …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, wait. Let us have some silence.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, these are facts. However, on a light note, you can take it that way, but I am giving an assurance. His Excellency the President approves the allocation of land above 1,000 ha.

Mr Nkombo: So, he was involved.

Mr Katambo: The Ministry of Lands …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, give me a minute. I will not allow questions whilst seated. I have been very liberal. How do you ask directly?

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources approves 1,000 ha of land, while His Excellency the President approves above 1,000 ha. So, there could be such agreements when the chief is offering land to the Government. The procedures could be followed through the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources and the powers vested in the President.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chali (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, the idea of taking the agricultural college to a rural area is quite welcome. From the genesis, was there an advertisement by the Government asking for expression of interest or did it just start receiving unsolicited bids?

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, there was no advertisement. The investors showed interest. Like I said, we will wait for detailed planned developments from whoever is interested. AVIC International gave a detailed expression to develop the land. So, it was not advertised. Besides that, it is only a fifty-minute drive to Shibuyunji where the college will be constructed from where it is currently located, if approved by the Cabinet and your concerns are addressed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the people of Zambia feel that the intended project by Aviation Industry Corporation of Chin (AVIC) International is an extension of state capture in view of the fact that it is now implementing almost all the important projects in this country, and I can give examples. All the police stations and houses in this country are being worked on by AVIC International Holding Corporation Ltd under single sourcing. It is building houses for His Excellency the President at State Lodge. AVIC International …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Roan, can you ask a question to clarify the statement?

Dr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, Zambia’s mainstay is agriculture. Having two colleges of agriculture, one in Lusaka and the other to be constructed where the chief has given land will not be of harm to the people of Zambia. Why is the Government insisting on this deal when the people of Zambia have objected it? Is the hon. Minister confirming that, indeed, this is a project of state capture? Remember, the Guptas are running way from South Africa today.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, we have not received detailed information for us to proceed and award AVIC International. I have indicated that the Government is awaiting a detailed proposal from AVIC International on the planned development of the NRDC Campus in Shibuyunji. I also indicated that there have been several unsolicited offers on the NRDC land. Masaiti and Roan are neighbours. Even mwamona is free to participate if he wants. This is not state capture. I would not know about AVIC International Ltd’s other engagements, but we are dealing with is the issue at hand.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lusambo: Mwamona!

Dr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Roan …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Let us have some order!

Mrs Chonya (Kafue): Thank you, Mr Speaker, although my earlier question has been overtaken by events, I will ask a fresh one. Initially, I wanted to find out from the hon. Minister whether there was a public call for people to vie. However, from the hon. Minister’s response, I understand that Aviation Industry Corporation of Chin (AVIC) International just submitted its documents. Nevertheless, I want to find out from the hon. Minister, since he has indicated that AVIC International’s proposal looked attractive, especially the one which talks about constructing a financial centre, whether the Zambian people out there needed this financial centre and in whose interest it is. As far as I am concerned, the country is broke and most of us Zambians are broke.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, at the moment, we are waiting for a detailed proposal from AVIC International. When this document is delivered, that is when we will see the expression of interest what Government would take. I have already said that if this offer is done at NRDC, there will be creation of more jobs, insurance, banking …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Katambo: … construction of malls and all that. I have also mentioned that several unsolicitated offers have been offered for the NRDC land and I have been repeating myself, hon. Members. However, the more detailed and comprehensive expression of intent was the one from AVIC International. It is up to us to deal with the issue and see what we should do. This is why we brought the ministerial statement to this House so that we avail the information to the citizenry out to make them clear.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Musonda (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, the clarification I seek from the hon. Minister is whether the Aviation Industry Corporation of Chin (AVIC) International proposal has explicitly indicated the sequence in which it will develop the financial centre and the new Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) College? Which one will come first? Is it the NRDC College or the financial centre?

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I will keep repeating myself. In the MoU, AVIC International will construct a financial centre at the current NRDC College, Lusaka Campus and will have a financial centre. This means that once we agree, of course, AVIC International will have to develop the new college to which the students will be moved. Thereafter, it will get to deal with what has been agreed on over the old place. So, that is what will come first and last.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, I have been listening very carefully to the hon. Minister’s statements. I have a document here in my hands, the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) he is talking about and it states that:

“This MoU shall enter into force and effect when duly signed by the authorised representatives of both parties and shall remain in full force and effect for a period of two years from the effective date.”

Mr Speaker, this MoU was duly signed by the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Agriculture on behalf of the Republic of Zambian Government and, of course, Aviation Industry Corporation of Chin (AVIC) International representatives. So, this MoU is actually an official document between the Government of the Republic of Zambia and AVIC International.

Interruptions

Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, could the hon. Minister clarify his statements that this MoU has not been approved by the Cabinet and is, therefore, none binding on the part of the Republic of Zambia even if it has been signed by the representative of the Republic of Zambia. Can he clarify that statement.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, firstly, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, my dear father, …

Laughter

Mr Katambo: … must understand that this MoU is an expression of intent. A feasibility study and a detailed report have to be done before the final approvals are made. However, anything can change as regards the document he has in his hands. Anything can change.

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Katambo: I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Imakando (Mongu Central): Mr Speaker, mine is just a simple question. The Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) structures are very much similar to the National Institute of Public Administration (NIPA) structures, which are solid. Can the hon. Minister confirm whether these buildings have been condemned to be irreparable? If they can be repaired, what is stopping him from continuing with the repairs so that the NRDC can maintain its historical position in Zambia?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I indicated in my submission that the current room capacity was designed to accommodate two students per room. Currently, the rooms accommodate three to four students. Hence, these proposals and this route the Government has taken.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mongu Central related to the structure. He made a comparison between the NRDC and National Institute for Public Administration (NIPA) and his point was that structures at both institutions were firmly constructed and would, therefore, not be subject to repair. That was the question.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, it can be subject to repair or rehabilitation. It is possible.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I also have in my hands here the Memorandum of Understanding (MoU) between the Ministry of Agriculture and AVIC International. May I find out from the hon. Minister if at all the Attorney-General knows that this document was signed. This document was signed for the Government of the Republic of Zambia by the Permanent Secretary, Mr Julius Shawa.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I just answered Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa that whether signed, anything can change because feasibility studies and detailed reports have not been approved.

Interruptions

Mr Katambo: So, we will wait for approval. There is room for adjustment even if that document is signed. That document is just an expression of intent. So, anything can change.

Interruptions

Mr Katambo: That is what it is, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question is: Is the Attorney-General aware?

Hon. Opposition Members: Is he aware!

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, all processes and all Government dealings pass through the Attorney-General. The Attorney-General also gives his view on the structure of the document.

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: He is not aware!

Mr Katambo: Yes.

Laughter

Mr Katambo: I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mulunda (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, arising from the responses given by the hon. Minister, is it right to say that His Excellency the President actually gave away this land to AVIC International in the midst of the protests from the community?

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, Chief Shakumbila gave land to the Government. His Excellency the President is completely out of this thing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Laughter

Mr Katambo: It is under the ministry ….

Laughter

Mr Katambo: The question is: …

Interruptions

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, I need your protection.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let the hon. Minister complete his answer.

Mr Katambo: The hon. Member is putting it like it is His Excellency the President who gave an order for this land to be sold. That is why I am emphasising that Chief Shakumbila gave the land to His Excellency the President, under his Government, …

Laughter

Mr Katambo: … and then we are dealing with the issue of AVIC International and other offers that came on board. That is the issue. So, His Excellency the President is not involved in this issue in the manner the hon. Member has framed his question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ngulube: Lyapwa ilyashi!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Mumbi Phiri has indicated that she is now ready to render her maiden speech.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs M. Phiri (Nominated): Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for giving me this chance to deliver my maiden speech.

Mr Bwalya: Hear, hear!

Mrs M. Phiri: Sir, once again, I would like to take this opportunity to thank the Almighty God, who has used His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, to nominate me back to this House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs M. Phiri: Sir, it is not over until God says it is over.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs M. Phiri: Mr Speaker, I would like to dedicate the coming back to this House to the special grouping, where I come from, women and youths, who are considered to be vulnerable. Therefore, I would like to thank His Excellency the President for, again, giving the opportunity to a woman to be in a decision-making position.

Sir, my speech will not be complete if I do not thank my spouse, who has been with me and has stood by me, come rain or sunshine.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. Phiri: Mr Speaker, I do not know where I would have been this time had he been like other men. My spouse ended up giving up his international job to come and support his wife as she pursues her political career. He is a rare man.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. Phiri: Those who are coming from my field, which is the aviation field, know that if somebody comes to their house and starts describing their toilet, it means that they have been well-fed and, therefore, fail to hold the pressure.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. Phiri: Mr Speaker, my husband got concerned and gave up his job when he heard that his wife had gone back to the village where newspapers were used as toilet papers.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr M. Phiri: Sir, because of that, he realised that he had to come and support me.

Mr Speaker, let me go back to the party, the Patriotic Front (PF) Party, to which I am so proud to be part and parcel and is delivering development to the country regardless of where it was voted for.

Sir, the three important sectors of our economy can only come about if we have infrastructure development …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Can the hon. Members on my left, please, listen to the hon. Member in silence. If you have conversations to conduct, the doors are open. I can also assist you go through those doors.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: You may continue, hon. Member.

Mrs M. Phiri: Sir, I am proud of my husband for having given up his job to come and help to look after his children because some of the leaders, especially those who speak louder than others, have even failed to look after their children.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs M. Phiri: Sir, we have read what has been posted on the internet. Therefore, they should be very careful as they heckle me, as I debate.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs M. Phiri: Sir, I was saying that I am so proud to be part of this House, especially that I am coming from the Ruling Party, which has brought about the three fundamentals, which are needed to develop the country. Firstly, it is infrastructure, …

Mrs M. Phiri: … secondly, it is education and thirdly, it is health.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs M. Phiri: Mr Speaker, let me highlight some of the things, which the PF Government has done from 2011, when it took over the Government, up to 2016 when it went back to the people of Zambia to, again, ask for another mandate, which it was clearly given by fifty plus one.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs M. Phiri: Sir, in the area of early childhood education, which I am part of, prior to the 2011 Elections, early childhood education was dominated by the private sector providers. To ensure that children between three and six years have access to early childhood education, the Government has in the last five years done the following:

developed the National Policy and Implementation Plan, curriculum and teaching learning materials; and

established a total of 1,526 Government early childhood centress.

Sir, in the last five years, the following milestones have been achieved:

a total of 118 secondary schools have been constructed, creating 56,640 classrooms and 2,360 housing units for teachers; and

a total of 220 basic schools, which is twenty-two per province, have been upgraded into day secondary schools, creating over 1,000 places for learners.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mrs M. Phiri: It is there. You will have nothing to talk about in 2021.

Laughter

Mr M. Phiri: Mr Speaker, the progression rate from Grade 9 to G 10 has increased in the last five years, reaching 48.89 per cent in 2015. There is a large proportion of learners progressing to Grade 10 than in the previous five years. The construction of 118 schools and the upgrading of 220 basic schools are under junior secondary school level. The revised curriculum has created the two-tier system and the fast-track programme has 2,975 teachers in mathematics and science. The vocational career pathways are now open in the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) Institutions.

Mr Speaker, the colleges have had their curriculum, re-oriented so that they are positioned to better serve the primary schools and junior secondary schools. The following measures were undertaken in the last five years:

the colleges have been upgraded from offering certificate courses and programmes to offering primary or secondary diploma programmes;

the training duration has been revised from two to three years;

early childhood and primary teachers qualification has been upgraded from certificate to diploma and degree through in-service and pre-service teacher training; and

the junior secondary teacher education curriculum has been revised.

Sir, in the next five years, the PF Government shall do the following:

give colleges a facelift and expand them in order to meet their demand for teachers in the country;

increase grants to colleges;

ensure that the colleges open new programmes outside the teaching methodology;

ensure that colleges satisfy the catchment area demands; and

review the National Education Policy and amend the 2011 Education Act.

Skills Development

Mr Speaker, from 2011 to 2016, the commitment of the PF Government has been to empower people with lifelong and survival skills by creating trades institutions. As a result, there has been a commitment towards the construction of, at least, one trades training institute per district and has resulted in the completion of Kalabo and Isoka Trades Institutes as well as the construction of Lundazi, Mumbwa and Sesheke institutes.

The construction of centres in Chitokoloki, Luangwa and Kazungula will add to the number of trades training institutes in 2018. There is also a two-tier system at Grade 10 in institutions under the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA).

Mr Speaker, in the tertiary education sector, the number of universities, both public and private, has continued to grow. We have also seen an increase in the number of secondary school graduates accessing university education. Public universities have increased in the last five years from three to nine and more are under construction. I can confirm that the newly-built Robert Makasa University in Muchinga Province, where I come from, has been completed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, in the last five years, significant strides have been made to improve the quality of health services being provided to the Zambian people, especially in the area of infrastructure development, disease control and curbing maternal and child deaths. The country now has four fully-fledged tertiary level hospitals after the Livingstone General Hospital was upgraded to a teaching hospital, joining the level of those in Kitwe, Ndola and Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, the four tertiary level hospitals are fully equipped with modern diagnostics equipment such as computerised tomography machines and renal dialysis units needed to handle complicated cases. The Government has also installed a modern cardiology laboratory at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) aimed at handling cardiology interventional procedures.

Interruptions

Mrs Phiri: I am sure you are able to understand that I am not a medical doctor, hence the difficulty in saying some of those words.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mrs Phiri: Mr Speaker, currently, some of the cardiac patients …

Hon: Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mrs Phiri: … are being treated locally, thereby saving precious lives and the country’s hard-earned money. A very good successful story is the separation of siamese twins who were born in Kawambwa. We are very proud of the doctors who carried out that procedure, although they were belittled by some hon. Opposition Members, who have nothing progressive to talk about as usual. How can one belittle such an operation and proudly claim that it was a simple surgery? Such people should be ashamed. We as mothers especially know how complicated the birth of those twins was. I, therefore, expected a lot of support from women regarding this matter. As women, we should not attack each other. We are very vulnerable and if we agree with fathers most of the time, we will get lost.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by stating that I am a representative of women, especially marketeers, who I am proud of.

Interruptions

Mrs Phiri: This fact was stated on the Floor of this House. I am sure the hon. Member who said it has just moved out, but he can remember. I am a very proud woman where I am coming from as a marketeer and mother. So, as women, let us unite for a purpose because we are a constituency on our own. If we hold hands and support each other, regardless of where we are coming from, this country will progress.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

____________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

REMARKS BY HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT, MR EDGAR CHAGWA LUNGU

125. Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central) asked the Vice-President:

what His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, meant when he said, while on the Copperbelt, that ‘we will leave Government without money, but the Zambian people will get all the benefits, that we must make clear’;

whether the Government was aware that another remark by His Excellency that ‘uubomba mwibala alya mwibala’ had given credence to misappropriation of public resources;

if so, whether the remark would be retracted;

if not, why; and

whether the remark was not an affront to the fight against corruption.

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Chungu): Mr Speaker, I wish to clarify His Excellency the President’s remarks by quoting the actual statement he made in full so that hon. Members may appreciate the context in which the statement was made. The actual statement that His Excellency the President made was as follows:

“We came into Government without money. So, we will leave Government without money, but the Zambian people will get all the benefits. That must be made very clear. We are your servants. We listen to you, but finally, and most importantly, those of you in charge of managing these resources, please, don’t let these people of Zambia down.”

Mr Speaker, it is very clear from this statement that His Excellency the President was emphasising the point that we came into the Government to serve the people and not to abuse their resources.

Mr Speaker, the Bemba expression ‘uubomba mwibala alya mwibala’ was not made in isolation. It was a continuation of the earlier statement I quoted. It is unfortunate that the context in which the expression was made is being overlooked by political commentators. His Excellency the President was merely imploring public workers to guard against corruption.

Mr Mwiimbu: Question!

Mr Chungu: He even gave an illustration that well-meaning projects were being frustrated because the people managing them were abusing resources. If listened to in its entirety, his speech was a plea to Government workers to avoid corrupt practices.

Mr Speaker, I further wish to add that our Zambian language idioms or proverbs, and in particular Bemba idioms or proverbs, are never coined to teach negativity, but are used to teach children good lessons. I believe this is true of many Zambian languages. At this point, I would like to give a few examples to reiterate my point.

Sir, there is a Tonga proverb, and I am not very good at speaking Tonga, but hope you will understand, that ‘busiko bwangomwa nkujana da’.

Laughter

Mr Chungu: As I said, I am not Tonga, hence the mispronunciation. In English, that means that an impotent man is lucky when his wife is impregnated.

Laughter

Mr Chungu: My interpretation of this proverb is that when somebody does something for you when you know that you are not able to do it yourself, you tend to thank him or her. I wonder whether this proverb encourages or supports impotence or allows for a man’s wife to be impregnated by someone else if her husband is impotent.

Sir, there is another Tonga proverb that ‘bbonga uulidwa akale’. Directly translated in English it means a tuber plant is eaten on the spot. However, the traditional interpretation, as I have researched, is that when an issue in question is very small, it does not need the attention of a lot of people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Chungu: Sir, here is another bemba proverb, “Umunwe umo tausala nda.” It means that one finger cannot pick lice. This proverb has nothing to do with lice. It is used in an advisory or problem solving context. It seeks to promote team work in solving problems. Its actual interpretation is that if you have a relationship with a person who does not share your opinion on a certain issue or topic, that difference of opinion should not drive a wedge in your relationship.

Mr Speaker, my belief is that the Zambian people elected us to represent them in this august House. They did not send us here to deliberate over idioms or proverbs. However, I have belaboured this point about the idiom His Excellency the President used with examples in my response to illustrate the positivity attached to idioms or proverbs from different parts of our country and hopefully, put this matter to rest.

Mr Speaker, no remarks will be retracted. I hope that my response has been extremely informative to the hon. Members of the House and the Zambian people.

Sir, as already stated, those who have commented on this matter only focused on one part of a paragraph without reading and understanding His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, President of the Republic of Zambia, Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Chungu: … and above all, the sovereign State of the Republic of Zambia’s sentiments as a whole. As a result, his statement has been misconstrued.

Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, and the entire Government remain committed to the fight against corruption.

Mr Nkombo: Question!

Mr Chungu: The misunderstanding over this matter will, therefore, not change anything.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Justice was asking me why I was standing. I was following the computer …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, you can ignore whatever comment was made because it is not part of the proceedings.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House and Chief Whip has made an assumption that I did not contextualise the statement by His Excellency the President. I would like him to know that I did. In his response, he said that His Excellency the President indicated that the people in the Government came into the Government without money and will leave the Government without it. Can he tell me the implication of a declaration of assets and liabilities by us, public office holders?

Mr Speaker, when His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Lungu, first ran as a presidential candidate in 2015, he made a public declaration of being worth only K2 million.

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: I understand that is a little money. One year later, His Excellency the President made a declaration that he was worth K23 million. However he has no traceable business. In my mind, K23 million is a lot of money. I think I contextualised this issue. I also think this kind of accumulation of wealth applies to many people in the Executive. His Excellency the President himself said that there was too much corruption among his hon. Ministers. I am saying this to make the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House and Chief Whip understand that I read the statement His Excellency the President made in context.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, what is your question?

Mr Nkombo: My question is related to His Excellency the President’s pronouncement that his hon. Ministers are corrupt. I want the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House to understand that I read His Excellency the President’s statement in context …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, take your seat.

There were many other people who had indicated to ask questions. However, I deliberately selected you because you asked the question we are considering, Question 125. There was a response to Question 125. Now, you have an opportunity to ask a further question to the Government Chief Whip, who is currently Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, to clarify whatever he said in response. Therefore, you are obliged, according to the practice of the House, to confine your question, more or less, to the subject under discussion. I have used my words very advisedly. If there is no need for engagement, I can proceed to the rest of the hon. Members. You have raised a number of subjects and issues unrelated to your very question. You know that one of the rules of the House is relevance. I must say that rule is cardinal. I recognise the overall context of these questions. However, that does not take away the need for us to follow our practice.

You may continue.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, thank you for your wise counsel. I hope we are all mindful that I will have two bites at the cherry, which is this question, which is in five parts.

Sir, His Excellency the President went from having K2 million to K23 million. Does that sound like coming in without money and going out without money? His Excellency the President has only served one year, but he now has K21 million more than the day he entered the Government. I am still coming for my next question.

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President said what he said on behalf of the Government. He did not say it in his individual capacity.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Repeat your answer. There are assertions that you were not heard.

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has mentioned figures, that is, K2 million, K22 million and K23 million. The statement His Excellency the President made was on behalf of the Government. He did not say it as an individual.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I will confine myself to the second limb of the question, which is (b), whether the Government was aware that another remark by His Excellency that “uubomba mwibala alya mwibala” has given credence to misappropriation of public resources.

Mr Speaker, arising out of this statement that was made by His Excellency the President, Mr Lungu, a flurry of interpretations by Government hon. Ministers were made. I will concentrate my reaction and my question on the statement that was made by the hon. Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development pertaining to the interpretation of that statement. The day after His Excellency the President made that statement, there was a public outcry …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency, take your seat. Let me explain myself because I am controlling these proceedings. This question has been put to the right, and a response has been obtained from the Office of the Vice-President. An explanation has been given. I think that in all fairness, as you proceed with your question, you must bear in mind what the Acting Leader of Government Business and Chief Whip has said. I am issuing a caveat here.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I will gracefully abide by your guidance. I want to bring to the attention of the Acting Leader of Government Business that as a result of this statement, misinterpretations have been made by hon. Government Members, as they address members of the public. That is the point I am making.

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, please, let him finish.

Mr Mwiimbu: Let me finish. When Hon. Chitotela was interpreting the statement by His Excellency the President, he said that what he meant was that when you receive donor funding, you must utilise 90 per cent of it on projects and use up the remaining 10 per cent of the money. That is what His Excellency the President meant.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, that statement was quoted by The Daily Nation Newspaper, which supports the Patriotic Front (PF). The issue is whether Hon. Chungu supports Hon. Chitotela’s interpretation of the statement made by His Excellency the President. That is the issue I am raising.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency, I will not require Hon. Chungu to respond. My reason is simple. You are quoting another hon. Member. What I expect you to do now is to ask him on the basis of the statement he has made. That is what he is here to account for. How does he account for a statement made by Hon. Chitotela? I do not think that is fair.

Mr Mwiimbu rose.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, just a moment. I am not through. You will see me when I am through. I will stop talking. I do not think it is fair to ask Hon. Chungu to account for a statement made by Hon. Chitotela, if at all he did that. In any case, as far as these proceedings are concerned, I have no sight of that statement. I do not want to go into the question of the authenticity of it. I know that this is a political issue. However, I would like to repeat what I said to Hon. Nkombo, and that is, you should let Hon. Chungu account for what he said. If you have no questions to put to Hon. Chungu, I will proceed with my list. Hon. Member for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency, do you have a question for Hon. Chungu?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I do.

Mr Speaker: Please, you may proceed.

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, as somebody who is heading and supervising the hon. Members on the right, does Hon. Chungu subscribe to the various interpretations of this statement that are being made by his colleagues?

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, I only subscribe to what I have said in this statement.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, twalumba or thank you. It is very clear in my mind that the statement by the Head of State has caused your Government a lot of embarrassment in the sense that ...

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Continue hon. Member.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the biggest applause that His Excellency the President received at that dinner was when he talked about uubomba mwibala alya mwibala, which the hon. Government Members have conveniently decided to interpret in a fashion that they prefer. Social shame is a virtue. I would like to ask the hon. Leader of Government Business and Chief Whip when he will accept the fact that His Excellency the President said to the Republic that he is leading a group of corrupt ministers and that this particular statement is in tune with the earlier statement made by His Excellency the President on 16^th November, 2017, when he said that there are a lot of deposits that go into people’s minds, ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central Parliamentary Constituency, take your seat again.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I have finished now.

Mr Speaker: No, please, take your seat. If we have no further questions to the hon. Minister, let us say so. You are bringing up matters that are totally unrelated to the issue at hand. In your question, you are seeking the meaning of a statement which was made by His Excellency the President, and the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business has explained and clarified that. If you need to ask him further questions on the basis of what he has said, you are at liberty to ask him. Earlier on, I said that you should confine yourself to what he has responded to. If it is absolutely clear, then, the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business, let us make progress.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, maybe, I need more education.

Mr Speaker: Yes, at five.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, we need to educate each other here. Part five of my five-portioned question is addressing the issue of whether this remark is not an affront to corruption.

Mr Speaker: That is taken.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I am asking the Acting Leader of Government Business whether this particular remark, which I think is an affront to the fight against corruption, can be related to His Excellency the President’s confession on his Cabinet being corrupt.

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, I read out a statement and came up with the meaning of the idiom, which has nothing to do with what was said or what the hon. Member is saying now. The statement has nothing to do with corruption. I have explained what the uubomba mwibala alya mwibala idiom means. That is all I can say.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I would like to begin by congratulating the Minister of National Development and Planning, my colleague from the Public Accounts Committee, Hon. Chiteme. Allow me to also congratulate, on their ascendance to their respective offices, the Chief Whip, Hon. Chungu, and his deputy, Hon. Mutale. I am personally proud of all of you.

Sir, in the same breath, allow me to commend and congratulate somebody whom I believe is a true son of this soil for taking an unprecedented move to resign as Minister of Foreign Affairs from a corrupt Patriotic Front (PF) regime.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, this is unprecedented in this country.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, take your seat.

Mr Nkombo: Eliya nayanda kwamba hibotu.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: He should accept the good, the bad and the ugly.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: You are referring to allegations and you are also unqualified in your characterisation. I do not want to engage you further than this. Do you have a question to Hon. Chungu or not?

Mr Mweetwa: I have a question after congratulating Hon. Kalaba, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Please, put the question.

Mr Ngulube interjected.

Mr A. B. Malama: I do not know what you are trying to say.

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, in the hon. Chief Whip’s response, he indicated that the statement in question was intended to have been a plea to civil servants to not abuse public resources. Unfortunately, it has come at a time when the peoples’ belief that the Government is wasteful and corrupt is heightened.

Ms Kapata interjected.

Mr Mweetwa: How does the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House and Chief Whip, therefore, justify that this was meant to be a plea in the face of a Minister of Foreign Affairs resigning on grounds of abuse of resources by the PF regime and another hon. Minister who recently left Cabinet accusing the party and the Head of State of blatant corruption?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Laughter

Ms Kapata: We are not going to accept that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Kapata: We cannot allow that.

Mr Speaker: Can we have some order!

Ms Kapata: We cannot allow that.

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Minister.

At every turn and twist ...

Ms Kapata interjected.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, ...

Ms Kapata: We are not going to accept that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Chase her!

Mr Speaker: I have repeatedly intervened at every turn and juncture. The subject of this question is very clear. The essence of this question is to establish the meaning of what was said. There is an idiom in question and the Acting Leader of Government Business and Chief Whip has given an explanation. However, what we are doing is dragging in other subjects.

Next question, hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, question number ...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: He knows what he is doing.

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Mr Nkombo: You green horns, it is question number 126. We are moving. What are you complaining about?

Dr Kambwili: Curtailed!

Laughter

THE PURPOSE OF THE VISIT TO ZAMBIA BY HIS EXCELLENCY MR JOSEPH KABILA

126. Mr Nkombo asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:

what the purpose of the recent visit to Zambia by His Excellency the President of the Democratic Republic of Congo, Mr Joseph Kabila, was; and

what circumstances led to the road traffic accident involving the motorcade of President Kabila in Lusaka on 18^th February, 2018.

The Minister of Higher Education (Prof. Luo) (on behalf of The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Malanji): Mr Speaker, His Excellency, Mr Joseph Kabila Kabange, President of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), undertook a working visit to Zambia at the invitation of His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, President of the Republic of Zambia.

Sir, given the fact that Zambia shares her largest boarder with the DRC along which essential trading activities benefit both countries, the visit served as an opportunity to strengthen relations and co-operation between the two countries. In strengthening the country’s key political and economic partnerships, it was very important that His Excellency the President met with his counterpart to address ways in which trade between the two countries could be further enhanced along the border posts.

Mr Speaker, you will recall that Zambia is currently Deputy Chair of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Organ Troika on Politics, Defence and Security Co-operation. Therefore, the visit also served as an opportunity for His Excellency the President and his counterpart to discuss various multilateral issues pertaining to the political and security situation in that country. The discussions held between the two Heads of State formed part of a consultative process, as Zambia prepares to chair the Organ Troika in August, 2018, with a particular concern on issues in the DRC as a priority.

Sir, with reference to the statement issued by the Chief Government Spokesperson on 19^th February, 2018, the circumstances that led to the road traffic accident involving the motorcade of President Kabila in Lusaka on 18^th February, 2018, are still under investigation. However, preliminary investigations show that the accident involving the motorcade of the DRC President, Mr Joseph Kabila, could have been avoided had the driver of the Toyota Dyna registration number ACJ 8318 obeyed the police instructions to give way to the fast coming motorcade proceeding to the residence of the First Republican President, Dr Kenneth Kaunda, in the State Lodge area.

Sir, having made further clarification, allow me to add that the incident occurred when the disobedient driver of ACJ 8318 opted to use the opposite lane and overtake about ten to fifteen motor vehicles, which were by and on the road. Hence, to protect the motorcade, the presidential escort provided cover resulting in a collision with the Toyota Dyna. The incident constitutes a breach of the provisions of the Road Traffic and Police Acts.

I thank you, sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, there is an English adage which says “show me your friend and I will show you your character.”

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, we are all aware about the trouble that is going on in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), and I am very happy that the hon. Minister made reference to the Troika Organ, which His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Lungu, is supposed to take over from his neighbour. With the wind of change that is blowing in this region ...

Hon. Government Members: Which one?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

I do not see why we should be overly concerned with what he is feeling and I do not think that it is, on a serious note, appropriate to engage him whilst we are seated. Please, ask your question, hon. Member.

Mr Nkombo: With this wind of change that is blowing in this region, is the Government not worried that the behaviour of President Joseph Kabila, which is really unbecoming, ...

Hon. Government Member: Like HH!

Mr Nkombo: ... could dent the image of His Excellency, President Lungu, who many people now believe is a student of Mr Kabila, Mr Kagame and Mr Mseveni, who are stone cold dictators?

Prof. Lou: Mr Speaker, I just want to remind the hon. Member of Parliament, who was on the Floor, that this country called Zambia, in case he has not read its history, is a country that has, through the Presidency of this country, not losing presidents, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lou: … always given advice to countries in the neighbourhood and even provided support for the liberation of these countries.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lou: So, it is only befitting that His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Lungu, also emulates previous Presidents in trying to help where there is a need.

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, let me also remind the hon. Member of Parliament that although we are expected to be protected in Parliament, we are not supposed to talk ill of other Presidents and countries in diplomacy.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Therefore, as Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs, I will not make any reference to the Presidents and countries that he has mentioned, as I would like to protect the diplomacy of this country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I have listened attentively and heard the reasoning behind the visit of the former President of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: … Mr Kabila.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Ms Kapata: Tawatekanya Mwiimbu!

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, we are all aware …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Monze Central, take a seat.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I think, out of diplomacy, I would also like to subscribe to the counsel, which the hon. Acting Minister of Foreign Affairs has made, that as much as the proceedings of this House are privileged, let us, within our own judgment, exercise some diplomacy. We know there are problems elsewhere. There are problems within countries and the general tendency and practice is to try to keep an arm’s length in the internal affairs of other countries. That is a diplomatic trend. The issue at hand and the question simply sought to find out why this particular dignitary visited Zambia. It is asking about the purpose of the visit.

Again, I want to repeat this point about relevance. I know we want to politic, …

Mr Lusambo: Yes!

Mr Speaker: …but let us confine ourselves to the questions.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I will be very diplomatic and confine myself to the purpose of the visit.

Mr Speaker: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: I will be very diplomatic and state that the term of office of the visitor who came here ended two years ago ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: ... and that there are atrocities in the DRC.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: As a result of those atrocities, we are receiving many refugees in this country.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: As a result of the visit …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Monze Central, take a seat.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister for Luapula, take a seat as well.

You know, if you noticed earlier on, I decided to move on. Normally, I would allow for as many people as possible to ask questions.

Ms Kapata: Let us just move on, Sir.

Mr Speaker: But, where there is this kind of, virtually, pandemonium, …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … I move on. I have that discretion. Unfortunately, well-meaning questions suffer in the process. This is because in spite of my guidance, there is resistance.

I ask you to proceed in one angle, but you decide to paraphrase.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: In the meantime, as you can see, we are virtually wasting time. As we are wasting time, the Zambian public is watching.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Speaker: They know that this is at their cost. So, in order to be efficient, if this persists, we will get to the next question.

Let us try again.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I will try again. Through the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, is the Government not aware that the cause of the problems in the DRC is the visitor who came here?

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: No point of order is allowed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of a visitor who came to Zambia. I am only aware of the President of the Democratic Republic of the Congo, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: … Mr Kabila. Mr Kabila remains incumbent, based on the 31^st December, 2016 agreement until such a time that elections are held. The elections are scheduled for December, 2018.

Mr Speaker, let me also take advantage of this question to say that one of my problems, as Minister of Higher Education, is the lack of reading.

Laughter

Prof. Luo: I would like to suggest that we read.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: That is why there is confusion in the DRC.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Mr Speaker, since I am speaking to the hon. Minister, who is putting on two hats, that being the Minister of Higher Education and ...

Prof. Luo: Foreign Affairs!

Mr Mutelo: Again, okay.

So, birds of a feather flock together.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: His Excellency the President invited a foreign president to …

Mr Lusambo: Seven spirits.

Mr Mutelo: … come to talk about the political and economical situations in their respective countries. Taking the political situation in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), are Zambians safe?

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, …

Mr Mutelo: What have we come to learn from Mr Kabila?

Mr Speaker: ... you are obliged to answer the first question only.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, let me also remind us of our history. At the time Zambia got Independence, all the countries around her were in turmoil. The President of the Republic then, Dr Kenneth Kaunda, took the bull by its horns and decided that, as a senior President, I will look after the countries around us and Zambians were safe.

Mr Speaker, we are now at a time when the world has advanced and we are reminded about partnerships and co-operation. I can, therefore, see that the well-meaning Zambians are very happy that as a country, we are supporting and ensuring that there is peace in our neighbouring country.

Mr Speaker, let me take advantage of this particular discussion in the House. There is a disease where someone can start to hallucinate. There are women who even start thinking that they are pregnant when, in fact, they are not. I think, we may ask the hon. Minister of Health to help us.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

REHABILITATION OF NALUBUMBA BRIDGE IN KALOMO CENTRAL CONSTITUENCY

127. Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

when the rehabilitation of Nalubumba Bridge in Kalomo Central Parliamentary Constituency, which was partly washed away during the 2016/2017 Rainy Season, would commence;

what the estimated cost of the project was;

whether a contractor for the project had been indentified;

if so, what the name of the contractor was; and

what the timeframe for the completion of the project was.

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Chitotela): Mr Speaker, works on Nalubumba Bridge in Kalomo Central Constituency will commence once funds for the project are released by the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA), following the request by the Road Development Agency (RDA) to undertake emergency works on the bridge.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost for the project is K2,415,908.47. No contractor has been identified to undertake the works because this project will be done by the regional office of the RDA in the Southern Province. The timeframe for the completion of the project is three months.

Sir, let me clarify a statement in which it was alleged I said something …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister!

Mr Chitotela: … on the Floor of this House. Where I come from, …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, take a seat. You cannot go back to that issue. I also overruled reference to whatever was allegedly said by you. So, I do not think we should go back. Are you through with your response?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I am through with my response.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kamboni: Mr Speaker, at the mentioned bridge, two vehicles, which included a truck and trailer, were washed away as they tried to go to Mapatizya. Currently, the people of Mapatizya have been cut-off from the rest of the constituency. Learners have not been learning for the past three weeks.

Mr Speaker, firstly, the hon. Minister told me that the Bill of Quantity (BOQ) was K2 million. Now he is saying that it is K2.4 million. Last time, I was told that it had reduced to K300,000 and the RDA indicated that the project would only take about a week. For how long will the constituency be rendered dysfunctional? Currently, there is no food for the people who have been cut-off from the rest of the constituency. Trucks are being washed away and people are dying in the same river. Will we wait until the money is found without any timeframe being given?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, two weeks ago, the Government released K1 million to the regional office. I have also been briefed by the hon. Provincial Minister that the place was visited last week and putting up of a foot bridge has since commenced so that the movement of people is not disrupted.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Chonya (Kafue): Mr Speaker, I just wanted to find out if the hon. Minister has some kind of fund within his ministry to deal with serious cases, such as the one my colleague is referring to. In Kafue, we also have a similar situation where people have been cut-off completely because of a broken down bridge. Are there funds readily available to deal with such emergencies in the ministry?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, even last year, I did state that we want to simplify the way we respond to emergencies. As a ministry, we made a deliberate policy to send money to each region each time we are funded. As I stated, just last week, we were partially funded and we released a K10 million. All the ten provinces received K1 million each. I would like to encourage hon. Members of Parliament to interact with the provincial administration whenever there are emergencies instead of waiting to ask a question at Central Government level because there are so many competing needs which may delay attending to emergencies. I would want to encourage my counterparts, the hon. Members of Parliament, to engage hon. Ministers and Permanent Secretaries (PSs) in various provinces so that they do not need to wait to come to Parliament to raise issues of an urgent nature.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is saying that he is looking for K2.4 million to work on a 2m-stretch of a bridge. Can the hon. Minister confirm that actually, it is not the issue of money not being available, but that Nalubumba Bridge is actually sitting in Kalomo Constituency, which is in an Opposition stronghold?

Interruptions

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I want to assure my brother, Hon. Miyanda, that we are a Government that does not discriminate based on political affiliation.

Mr Mutale: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitotela: Sir, as I stated, we sent K1 million to each province and the hon. Provincial Minister of that area sent me a note indicating that works on the foot bridge had started so that the movement of people is disrupted. Whenever we are sending money, we do not look at which region is a Ruling Party stronghold. We send equal amounts of money to each region. We just sent K1 million to each province and we did not look at whether it was Lusaka Province, where the Patriotic Front (PF) won, Luapula Province or the North-Western Province. We do that because we know that we are all Zambians.

Sir, the hon. Member for Dundumwezi has stated that for the first time, Dundumwezi has received communication towers. We all know that Dundumwezi is in the Southern Province. Therefore, we do not look at who voted for who. We look at Zambia, as a country, because we are all Zambians. What binds us together despite our different political affiliations is Zambia. His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, is the President of Zambia and that is a fundamental truth that cannot be changed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kamboni: Mr Speaker, it is not true that there is a foot bridge which is being built. I just spoke to my people a few minutes ago and they have told me that there is no sign of a foot bridge being constructed.

Interruptions

Mr Kamboni: Mr Speaker, from March, last year, I have been talking …

Mr Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Kamboni: Mr Speaker, since March, last year, the RDA in the Southern Province has not received any money from this Government. Does this ministry have a deliberate policy to ensure that this bridge and many others are not funded? We have a toll gate in Kafue. Where is the money going?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the fundamental truth is that a foot bridge is being built on the crossing that the hon. Member is talking about. I would invite my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central, to visit his constituency this weekend to prove that a foot bridge is being built, as we are speaking.

I thank you, Sir.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

PROCUREMENT OF FIREARMS, UNIFORMS AND MOTOR VEHICLES FOR WILDLIFE OFFICERS

128. Mr C. Zulu (Luangeni) asked the Minister of Tourism and Arts:

whether the Government had any plans to procure the following items for wildlife police officers:

sophisticated firearms;

uniforms; and

motor vehicles

if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

if there were no such plans, why.

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mr Sichalwe) (on behalf of the Minister of Tourism and Arts (Mr Banda):Mr Speaker, the Department of National Parks, through the Ministry of Tourism and Arts, has plans to procure 500 sophisticated firearms and has made a provision in the 2018 Budget. It also has plans to procure combat uniforms and office uniforms for senior officers and new motor vehicles for field use and has made a provision in the 2018 Budget. This will enable the wildlife police officers to effectively carry out their functions.

Sir, having approved the Budget for 2018, the implementation will be in 2018.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, the issue of officers from the Department of National Parks not being equipped is very serious. Just two weeks ago, in Chama South, we buried a twenty-eight-year-old lady from Chief Chifunda, Rabecca Kumwenda, who was killed by a leopard as she tried to come out of the house. As I seek this clarification, two members of the same family were also attacked by a leopard in the same area and are in Lundazi General Hospital. When I made an enquiry with the Department of National Parks, it indicated that it does not have firearms and gun powder to scare away elephants which have destroyed more than thirty fields belonging to about ten families in Chama South Constituency. Could the hon. Minister give us a specific period in which they will be able to equip the Department of National Parks with firearms to ensure that lives are protected not only in Chama South, but many other areas where people are having challenges with wild animals?

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to know that the last time the department procured weapons was in 1992. As a ministry, we have considered this as a matter of urgency and the procurement is already underway with our technocrats. So, we are attending to this matter with the urgency that it needs.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear! Ema urgency aya!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, arising from the answers that have been given, I would like to find out the measures the hon. Minister will put in place to ensure that the firearms that will be procured by the Government are not abused by wildlife officers? We are aware that a number of people have been killed by wildlife officers under very suspicious circumstances and there has been an outcry. What measures will he put in place to ensure that the rule of law is followed?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, the wildlife officers are actually trained on how to handle the weapons. Therefore, they will go through the necessary training and will abide by the trainings that they will be provided with.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated the number of firearms that will be bought. I have not heard him mention the number of vehicles that will be purchased and how they will be distributed.

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister may wish to know that the ministry can only spend what this House approves. K10,354,000 was approved for the purchase of motor vehicles. How this money will be disbursed is left to the technocrats. It is either they will buy the vehicles locally or will import them, depending on what they will find feasible according to the amount of money that has been budgeted.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lihefu (Manyinga): Mr Speaker, recently in Lunga Game Reserve in the North-Western Province, some wildlife police officers were disarmed by poachers. They were tied and one almost lost his life. What measure has the Government put in place to ensure that the officers in uniform who protect animals are protected?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Member of Parliament for Manyinga may have heard from the question, it is seeking to find out when the Government will procure sophisticated firearms to contain the issue of poaching because poachers have become too sophisticated for our wildlife officers. Hence, bringing to our attention that our wildlife officers are ill-equipped. This is the more reason the Government has taken this urgent stance to procure the sophisticated firearms to help wildlife officers contain the poachers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I have heard the hon. Minister talk about stopping poaching by using sophisticated firearms. If he aims at using firearms to stop poaching, is the Government not abandoning the measure of increased road patrols? Besides vehicles, is the Government not planning to procure helicopters so that the guards are able to see poachers from the air instead of relying on sophisticated firearms, which might also find themselves into the hands of the poachers?

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, I would be very delighted if the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo could lobby for more funding for the purchase of helicopters because it is, indeed, a very expensive venture. Nevertheless, as an immediate measure, we thought of purchasing motor vehicles for ground patrols.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister have any plans of lobbying support from companies like AVIC International, which is actually undertaking most of the contracts, to help us with the purchase of either uniforms, motor vehicles or sophisticated firearms?

Laughter

Mr Sichalwe: Mr Speaker, I guess that question has been posed as a light moment. The hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwe Central may be politicking, but nevertheless, the department will engage its colleagues in the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) to support it in the fight against poaching.

Sir, may I also take this opportunity to correct my colleague, who earlier mentioned that we are trying to stop poaching. I did not say that we are trying to stop poaching. However, I mentioned that these measures are meant to reduce rampant poaching. Hon. Members may wish to know that in the reduction of poaching, the off take of animals should be not more than 2 per cent of the total population of the animals.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CERTIFICATES OF TITLE FOR SMALL-HOLDER FARMERS IN MAGOYE SETTLEMENTS

129. Mr Machila (Magoye) asked the Minister of Lands and Natural Resources:

when Certificates of Title would be issued to small-holder farmers in the following settlements in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency;

Ngwezi;

Dumba;

Chiimbe;

Mbaya;

Musuma; and

Chinkwasaala; and

what caused the delay in issuing the Certificates.

The Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, a total of 143 Certificates of Title have been issued in Ngwezi, Dumba, Chiimbe, Mbaya, Musuma and Chinkwasaala settlement areas in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency out of a total of 285 properties. However, it is important to note that the process of issuance of Certificate of Title to small-holder farmers in Ngwezi, Dumba, Chiimbe, Mbaya, Musuma and Chinkwassala settlement areas in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency is dependent on the payment of consideration fees by the land owners and having their land surveyed. In this regard, Certificates of Title for the remaining properties will only be issued upon the payment of consideration fees and the surveying of the plots.

Sir, the delay in the issuance of the Certificates of Title to the remaining properties has been as a result of non-payment of consideration fees and not having their land surveyed. The land owner is required to engage the services of a private or Government surveyor to have his or her land surveyed. A Certificate of Title cannot be issued without the payment of consideration fees and land being surveyed. It is the responsibility of the land owner to engage a surveyor.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

ADDITIONAL POLICE STATIONS IN LIUWA CONSTITUENCY

130. Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

whether the Government was aware that Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency had only one police station with two officers managing a vast area;

why police officers had not been deployed to the newly-constructed police post in Luola area;

whether the Government had any plans to establish more police stations in the Constituency; and

if so, when the plans would be implemented.

The Minister of Defence (Mr Chama) (on behalf of the Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency has only one police post with two officers manning it. The police station in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency was built under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and has no staff housing for the officers. The police post is in a game management area (GMA) and operates as an operational police post with officers being deployed from Kalabo on a rotational basis.

Sir, the Government has not deployed officers to the police post in Luola area because there are no houses to accommodate the officers. Even private houses for rent are not available in the area. The police post was built as a community initiative and did not include houses for officers.

Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans of establishing more police stations in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency, as the Government policy is to first complete on-going projects before embarking on new ones.

Sir, the Government has no immediate plans to construct new police stations in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency prior to the completion of the on-going projects.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I would like to come to part (b) of the question on why police officers have not been deployed to Luola to which the hon. Minister has said it is because there are no staff houses.

Sir, is the hon. Minister aware that, in fact, the story is not true because the community made available two staff houses from the primary school. As I speak now, the houses are available and have been available for the last two years. Could the hon. Minister give me and the House at large a good reason the police officers have not been deployed?

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, probably, the information that houses have been constructed in that area and can be offered to the police officers has not reached the command or the ministry. So, immediately that information is availed to the ministry or the police command, I believe police officers can be deployed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I have listened carefully to the hon. Minister, who has stated that his ministry will not construct any police post in Liuwa until all the on-going projects are completed. Could the hon. Minister assure this House when the on-going projects, which have been on standstill countrywide due to a lack of resources by the Government, will be completed?

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, indeed, it is a concern of the Government and His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia and Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces that all the projects, which are at 80 or 90 per cent stage, be completed. I would like to assure the hon. Member that going forward, the Government is committed to ensuring that the projects are completed this year or next year, depending on the availability of funds.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Kufakwandi (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, I would like to know whether the Government has a comprehensive plan of building new police stations and rehabilitating old ones. Coming from Sesheke, which is a border town, police stations were built in the 1960s and because they are old, they are really an embarrassment before the people who visit from outside the country. Does the ministry have any comprehensive plan to address this issue?

Mr Chama: Sir, indeed, there are plans to rehabilitate old infrastructure. Like I have stated and depending on the availability of money, the Government is committed to ensuring that old structures are rehabilitated throughout the country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister had indicated that the police station at Luola has not been established because of the lack of staff houses although an office is in place. Thereafter, I availed the information that, in fact, staff houses had been offered, he then said once that information had been made available to the Government, action would be taken. I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister is aware that two years ago, I had made the information on the availability of an office and two staff houses available to the command. However, in spite of that, no action has been taken to establish the police station.

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is asking whether I am or the ministry is aware about the existence the office and two staff houses. I am not aware.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Has the hon. Member for Kabompo withdrawn his question?

Mr Lufuma indicated assent.

Mrs Chonya: Riding on the question from my colleague on whether the Government has any plans to rehabilitate some of the police stations, I would like to find out from him whether he is aware that in some cases, the level of such dilapidation is very bad. For instance, officers in Kafue were almost moving out because the entire police station was flooded and they could not just operate properly. So, is he aware that the situation is so pathetic in some of the police stations such that they need urgent rehabilitation and construction?

Mr Chama: Mr Speaker, indeed, the ministry is aware because some of the structures were built a long time ago. In some instances, maintenance has not taken place for some time due to a lack of funds. Therefore, we are aware. It is for this reason that the Government is committed to ensuring that going forward and funds being available, these places are maintained so that our officers operate in decent places or police stations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MINERAL EXPLORATION IN CHINSALI

131. Mr Mukosa (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

whether the Government had facilitated any mineral exploration in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency;

if so, how many companies were exploring for minerals ; and

what the names of the companies were.

The Minister of Mines and Mineral Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, the Government has facilitated mineral exploration in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency by:

providing basic geological information about the areas. This is contained in Geological Mapping Report No. 79, which is available at the Geological Survey Department; and

the Government has gone further by granting exploration licences to companies to undertake exploration in the area.

Sir, currently, there are four companies, which have been granted exploration licences in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency. The names of the companies currently undertaking exploration works in Chinsali Constituency are as follows:

Kampoko Resources Limited;

Winbelt Resources Limited;

Raubex Construction Zambian Limited ; and

Samfuel Limited.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

SALARIES AT THE TIMES OF ZAMBIA

132. Mr C. Zulu asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting:

whether the payment of salaries to all employees at eh Times of Zambia is up to-date;

if not, by how many months the salaries are in arrears;

when the arrears would be settled; and

what measures had been taken to resolve the financial challenges at the Times of Zambia.

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, the salaries for all employees at the Times of Zambia is not up to date. There are 284 employees at the Times of Zambia. Seven months salaries are in arrears, amounting to K9 million. The arrears are from June, 2017 to December, 2017.

Mr Speaker, the Government is committed to seeing to it that all the outstanding arrears are cleared as soon as possible. Currently, the employees at the Times of Zambia have started receiving their monthly salaries without a backlog. Sometimes, they are remunerated twice in a month as a strategy to settle the outstanding salary arrears.

Sir, there was no board at Times of Zambia from 2015 to 2017. However, a new board was appointed in January, 2018, and is currently studying the matter.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, Government departments owe the Times of Zambia more than K7 million via unpaid fees for advertisement. What is the ministry doing to help recover that money?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, indeed, it is true that Government departments owe the Times of Zambia, and the figure is actually K5.7 million. Obviously, there is other outstanding debt the company owes, which arose from terminal benefits following the retrenchment of staff in 2010, which amounts to over K17 million. There are also legal fees of about K6 million. So, the Times of Zambia is quite indebted as well as owed. There are active discussions going on with the Ministry of Finance, with a meeting held as late as last week Friday, on how we can resolve the debt that the Government owes the Times of Zambia. I am very sure that we will meet with the new hon. Minister of Finance very soon to ensure that we have a logical conclusion to the discussions.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mung’andu (Chama South): Mr Speaker, looking at the salary area situation at the Times of Zambia, is the hon. Minister happy with the performance of management?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the problems at the Times of Zambia are quite huge and I am not so sure that at this point it is time to begin pointing fingers at who is to blame. The Government is not involved in the day-to-day running of the Times of Zambia. I mentioned earlier that there had been no board of directors for quite a number of years for the company. Now that a board has been appointed, we expect it to attend to the issues at the Times of Zambia. So, if the management is found wanting, the board will make the necessary recommendations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister has rightly pointed out, there are huge challenges concerning the running and viability of the Times of Zambia. This is a public institution and its problems are not new. They have been there since time immemorial. I do not think they have come in the recent past, but solutions have not been found. Therefore, is the Government considering liquidating the Times of Zambia in order to save taxpayers’ money?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, if I heard the question right, the hon. Member is asking if the Government is considering liquidating this institution to save taxpayers’ money. I am actually impressed that an hon. Member of Parliament from the Opposition is actually making those suggestions. In the past when the Government has come up to this conclusion or even to find an equity partner for public institutions, the Opposition has been up in arms accusing the Government of mismanagement. So, it is quite important that we are on the same page now and we can all accept that at the end of the day when public institutions, especially statutory institutions such as this one, are performing badly, it is the taxpayers that are suffering. I think it is important to make that point very clear and I am very impressed with that question.

Sir, however, like I said, a board has just been appointed and it is studying this matter. As you know, the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC) was just created and it holds the public shares in the Time of Zambia. I am sure that at the appropriate time, both the board and the IDC will make the right decision on the way to go. As far as the Government is concerned, it wants to do the best for the people of Zambia and, indeed, save taxpayers’ money.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the Times of Zambia is a parastatal body that is expected to finance its operations from its own activities. However, I heard the hon. Minister say that the institution’s problems will only be resolved when the Government pays it. How is the Government involved? Is it the grants which have not been paid or, maybe, the Government has been contracting services that have not been paid for, therefore, the Times of Zambia is looking forward to drawing that money from it?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I did state earlier that a new board is reviewing the matter and clearly, so is the Government, through the IDC, which is a shareholder in the Times of Zambia. We have to totally review the business plan or model for the Times of Zambia. At the moment, the Times of Zambia newspaper circulation is only about 7,000 copies a day. At one point, the newspaper’s circulation was 20,000 copies per day. If you recall, in 2010, there was the coming together of both Printpak Zambia and Times of Zambia. This resulted in a bloated workforce, which right now is at over 284 employees.

However, going forward, we now have to make a decision on whether, as the previous speaker suggested, the Times of Zambia should be liquidated, recapitalised or an equity partner should be looked for. I think all these choices are on the table. What is important is that we must make the right choice now that should result in value for money. This will ensure that the Government is not forced into pumping money into an institution with a business model which does not work, when the resources can be used elsewhere for other develops. So, at the moment, the situation is all under review by the new board and the IDC.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr C. Zulu: Sir, the Government has been talking about recapitalising this institution as the situation keeps on worsening. When will we recapitalise the Times of Zambia?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, the Government has many needs at any given time. As we consider what to do with the Times of Zambia, especially now that there is a new board, I think I did mention in an earlier response that it was important that we looked at the business model once and for all so that we do not continue to say and do what the hon. Member of Parliament has actually asked about and we keep talking about it. We need to do the proper due diligence and find the right working model.

Mr Speaker, however, it is important to note that today, traditional newspapers are facing a lot of competition because the media landscape has been disrupted, particularly with the advent of the online media and other sources of information. There are also issues of demographic changes. So, the young people are now not reading physical newspapers, but going online to get information. We have to look at the environment in terms of newspapers and find what should be a working business model and save the Times of Zambia at this point in time.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Mwashingwele (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I want to ask a rider to the last question on when the Government will capitalise the Times of Zambia. I would also want us to understand that when a company is a parastatal, it tends to make losses. If the Times of Zambia was today handed over in private hands, it would make a profit. Therefore, is it not that the Government is not paying for the jobs done by the Times of Zambia and that is why it is constantly making losses?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, it is not easy for me to tell you when that will happen because a lot of work has to be done, including due diligence. When that is done, we will report to the nation at large on what the final decision will be on the Times of Zambia. That decision could be something else apart from recapitalisation.

Sir, I think that the issue of the Government owing the Times of Zambia is a serious matter and the hon. Minister of Finance is aware of this issue. When the discussions on this company come to a logical conclusion, I am sure we will come back to the House and, through it, inform the nation.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chibanda (Mufulira): Mr Speaker, owing to the financial malaise Times of Zambia is faced with, as explained by the hon. Minister, is she in a position to tell this House and the nation if it is technically insolvent?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, at the moment, the Times of Zambia is operating under difficulties. The commercial wing of the company is non-operational because of the problems it has with printing. It also has a bloated workforce of about 284 employees and is sitting on a lot of debt, as I stated earlier. I think what is important to take away today is that this matter is active with the Government. Our last engagement with the Ministry of Finance on this matter was last Friday. I intend to take it up with the hon. Minister of Finance as soon as possible so that we can reach a logical conclusion on this matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbangweta (Nkeyema): Mr Speaker, in the absence of a board at the Times of Zambia for a long time, who was making the strategic decisions for the company during this time and were those decisions lawful in the context of the Articles of Association of the company?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, obviously, there are laws, rules and regulations on how things should be done at any given time, including in the absence of a board. Since this is a parastatal, I have no doubt that the Government provided the leadership. In terms of appointment of the board, the authority has now moved to the IDC and the board has been appointed. We have reverted to normality. However, even in the absence of the board, there are regulations that provide for how things should be done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Chonya: Mr Speaker, does the Government appreciate the fact that its interference and censorship policies are the major factors contributing to the liquidity problems that the Times of Zambia and all other public media organisations are experiencing?

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I think that question has been around for quite a while. It is important to put the point across that an elected Government has the responsibility to provide information to the people. It has the responsibility to share its programmes with the people who elected it. I think that is a sacrosanct responsibility of any government. These public media institutions were created for that. All past administrations in Zambia have used these public media organisations. Even elsewhere in the world, this is what happens.

Sir, as Hon. Prof. Luo stated earlier, people have imaginations about what the Government does and does not do with the public media. I think going forward, what is important to remember is that, obviously, in the society we live, sometimes, our public institutions become bloated because we all want some of our children to get jobs there. At the end of the day, we should realise that we need models which will work for our public media institutions. I think what has affected the Times of Zambia and other Government-run media institutions is just the change of media scenario. Business is tough, there is more competition and traditional media has been disrupted by new media such as online media. Young people especially are using more of online media than traditional media. All of us have to get to a point where we can adapt to the new situation. However, that does not take away the need of the Government to have a mouth piece in order to communicate effectively because it has more responsibility than the Opposition. Therefore, it has to continue to do what is expected of it.

I thank you, Sir.

MUOYO ROAD

133. Mr Imbuwa (Nalolo) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

why the construction of Muoyo Road in Nalolo Parliamentary Constituency had stalled;

when construction works would resume;

what the total cost of the project was; and

what the estimated timeframe for the completion of the project was.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the construction of Muoyo Road in Nalolo Parliamentary Constituency has stalled owing to funding challenges.

Sir, it is expected that works will resume within the second quarter of this year, subject to availability of funds.

Mr Speaker, the total cost of the whole project, which includes Mongu/Limulunga, Muoya, Libonda and Lyambai roads, is estimated to be US$32,708,958.

Sir, the project is expected to be completed within one year and six months after the date of commencement.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that construction works will commence in the second quarter of this year. However, that is subject to availability of funds, whose estimated cost is US$32,708,958. When does the hon. Minister expect the funds for the project to be available?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, it could be within this quarter. All things being equal, I expect this project to be funded by the Treasury in the second quarter of the year.

I thank you, Sir.

HOSPITAL CONSTRUCTION IN CHIFUBU CONSTITUENCY

134. Mr Ng’ambi (Chifubu) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

whether the Government had any plans to construct a hospital in Chifubu Parliamentary Constituency; and

if so, when the plans would be implemented.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct a hospital in Chifubu Parliamentary Constituency. The Government is currently concentrating on completing all the infrastructure projects, including health infrastructure, that are above 80 per cent completion. Maybe, after completing these projects, it may consider starting new projects.

Sir, the Government has no immediate plans to construct a hospital in Chifubu Parliamentary Constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF SECONDARY SCHOOL S IN NCHANGA CONSTITUENCY

135. Mr Chali (Nchanga) asked the Minister of General Education:

whether the Government had any plans to construct secondary schools in the following peri-urban areas in Nchanga Parliamentary Constituency:

Mbayi/Luano/Mapila; and

Kapisha/Soweto; and

if so, when the plans would be implemented.

The Minister of General Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct secondary schools in Mbayi/Luano/Mapila and Kapisha/Soweto peri-urban areas in Nchanga Parliamentary Constituency. However, it has recognised that there is a great need to construct secondary schools in the peri-urban areas of Nchanga Parliamentary Constituency. Currently, the priority is to complete all outstanding projects in the Ministry of General Education before embarking on new ones.

Sir, as stated, the Government’s focus is to complete all outstanding projects. Plans to construct secondary schools in Mbayi/Luano/Mapila and Kapisha/Soweto peri-urban areas in Nchanga Parliamentary Constituency will be implemented in future when funds are available and the current infrastructure programmes are completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told us that movement, in terms of implementation of any new projects, will depend on when the Government completes the existing portfolio projects. I would like to find out when the Government intends to complete these on-going projects so that those who are waiting like us, can have primary schools and secondary schools built as well.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I would not want to commit on the time frame. However, as Hon. Lufuma is aware, His Excellency the President has constituted a committee of hon. Ministers and a technical team which is focusing on completing those projects which have advanced by over 80 per cent. Between now and the next six months, we will focus on those projects. However, progress will depend on the amount of funds that the Ministry of Finance will release in the next one year. If money will flow in, we hope to complete most of our projects, especially the ones that are 80 per cent done, and then move onto the ones that are below 80 per cent completion. I want to commit to my hon. Colleague that we should be able to complete Kayombo Secondary School, which is sitting at 85 or 90 per cent, before the end of this year.

I thank you, Sir.

TEACHER ESTABLISHMENT IN GWEMBE DISTRICT IN DECEMBER, 2017

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe) asked the Minister of General Education:

what the staff establishment for teachers in Gwembe District was as of December, 2017 for the following:

Primary schools; and

Secondary schools;

what the shortfall was;

why there had been that shortfall; and

when additional teachers would be deployed to the district.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the actual establishment for teachers in Gwembe District as at December, 2017 was as follows:

School Positions

Primary 437

Secondary 70

Total 507

Sir, the shortfall at primary level is 188 teachers while at secondary level it is 175 teachers. This is mainly caused by the following:

teachers transferred out of the district, but are yet to be removed from the Gwembe payroll;

gazetted and upgraded secondary schools that are yet to have an approved establishment; and

the district has seen growth in the number of community schools and these require trained Government teachers as well.

Mr Speaker, additional teachers will be sent to the district once the Treasury gives authority to recruit teachers. Further, the ministry will engage the Treasury to ensure that gazetted schools without an establishment are normalised.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Chisangano: Mr Speaker, in Gwembe Parliamentary Constituency, we have a number of trained teachers who are unemployed. We, from time to time, receive teachers who only stay for a month or so. Could the Government consider employing the trained teachers who are just loafing in the constituency.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the question by the hon. Member is very interesting. However, I would not want to pre-empt the Government’s plans as regards teacher recruitment because going forward, we want to focus on the element of teacher recruitment and deployment. I know that teachers going to my colleagues’ constituencies and districts, but leaving within very short periods of time has been a challenge to many. I do not want to commit at this stage, except that at an appropriate stage, I will come back to this House with all the information, once I have made some consultations. All I can say is that there will be some major changes before the end of this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that one of the reasons for the shortfall of teachers has to do with the fact that even after teachers are transferred, they are not immediately removed from the Gwembe payroll. This is administrative, and since that is the case, how long does the Government want to take before making the necessary payroll transfers? This way, the shortfall in the number of teachers, which is attributed to failure to transfer teachers from one payroll to the other, is resolved.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the issue of teachers who go on transfer and move with the Payroll Management and Establishment Control (PMEC) system numbers has been very historical, and because of that, it has accumulated to significant numbers. As such, this is not a matter that can be dealt with within six months or one year. However, I believe that going forward, and as part of the teacher recruitment and deployment programme in terms of the reforms, we want to consult with the unions. We have instances where a particular school has an establishment of say, thirty teachers, but when you go to such a school, you find that there are fifty teachers. The question, then, is: What are the other twenty teachers doing? Hon. colleagues, I totally know that these are the challenges that we are facing as far as teacher recruitment and deployment is concerned. This is why, with concerted efforts and your support, I believe that we need to deal with this particular matter.

Sir, if a teacher goes to another school on a swapping basis, then, we do not have a problem. However, many of the teachers go on transfer with a PMEC number, which means that a particular school, for example, in Kabompo will be reported to have teachers when, in fact, they are not there. That is because they have been transferred and they are getting money within Kabompo although they are teaching elsewhere. I think that is one of our major weaknesses in the ministry. However, I believe that we should be able to resolve this with concerted effort. I will, therefore, focus more on that particular element.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Chonya: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is saying that this issue at hand is not something that can be resolved in six months or a year. As he is appealing for concerted effort, is the hon. Minister aware that the Teaching Service Commission (TSC) has issued an amnesty to give an opportunity to teachers who have moved with Payroll Management and Establishment Control (PMEC) numbers to go back, within three months, to the places where they were deployed failure to which they will be removed from the payroll?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I am yet to meet the Teaching Service Commission, but these are some of the issues that we will discus. I am new to the ministry and I am not aware of the ultimatum that was issued. However, I think the actual updates will be given to me soon. Like I said, we will put strategic focus on this issue because it has become problematic. As long as we do not resolve it, sooner or later, it will grow bigger and disadvantage our colleagues who are in the rural areas. Hon. Members will see major changes in this area going forward.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to make an earnest appeal to the hon. Minister of General Education to take note of the peculiar situation in which Gwembe District finds itself. I tend to think it is not only Gwembe, but also Feira.

Sir, the hon. Minister is aware that the two districts went through very trying times during the liberation struggle and as a result, there are no facilities that can entice teachers. As the Government puts in place new measures to ensure that teachers are posted, is it not advisable to consider these two districts favourably?

Mr Mabumba: Your Excellency, it is on account of this question and the many problems that our ...

Laughter

Mr Mabumba: My apologises, Mr Speaker.

Sir, it is on account of this particular question, and the many problems that Hon. Mwiimbu is aware of, which is why I stated that we will look at this particular issue, consult the unions and the Teaching Service Commission and make the changes to address the challenges that the people we represent are faced with in their respective areas. We will return to hon. Members once we have consulted everybody. If we cannot, we will consult the Committee on Education on the reforms that we are trying to make in this particular area, including recruitment. I do not want to go into detail and pre-empt anything. At the right time, we will come back to consult hon. Members before the recruitment of teachers for 2018 is done so that we are on the same wave length.

Mr Speaker, Gwembe will be supported just like other districts have been supported in the recruitment and deployment of teachers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that there were about 437 primary school teachers in Gwembe, as of December, 2017. Does this include teachers who used Gwembe as a stepping stone before leaving or was this the actual head count?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, we have 507 positions of the total establishment for both primary and secondary schools. I further indicated that the shortfall at primary school is 188 while at secondary school, we have 175 teachers who have left for various reasons. One reason for teachers leaving has been transfers and another reason is that we have twenty-two newly-upgraded schools in each province and some of the schools are not on the establishment as far as payroll is concerned. As a result of these factors, we have those particular shortfalls in Gwembe.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambita (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, the situation in Gwembe is not different from many other constituencies in the rural areas, including mine. The hon. Minister has said he will focus on the problems concerning teachers not taking up positions where they have been deployed, as he takes up his new role in the Ministry of Education. One of the factors leading to these problems is teachers’ accommodation. It is clear that most of those teachers run away from those institutions because there is no housing. His predecessor talked about this often and would mispronounce the word ‘houses’ as ‘houshes’.

Laughter

Mr Kambita: Sir, I want the hon. Minister to assure this House that he will focus on this issue of houses, which could be the root cause of the problem, instead of coercing teachers to report to areas where there is no accommodation.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, before I left the Ministry of Education, about a year and four months ago, one of the issues we were trying to focus on was building staff accommodation alongside school infrastructure going forward. Although we are not building a school in Zambezi, Chavuma Secondary School, which is in a nearby district, has staff houses that have been built as part of the school. If Hon. Lufuma went to Kayombo Secondary School in his constituency, he would see that that secondary school has houses. Even the primary schools that we have been building over the last two years are coming with staff accommodation because we recognise that some of the teachers who we are posting to the rural areas are not being retained because there is no accommodation.

Sir, the Government commits to building primary and secondary schools that come with staff houses. Further, resources permitting, we will look at how we can build staff houses at the schools that were built without them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that teachers move with their Payroll Management and Established Control (PMEC) system numbers because being transferred to new pay points is not done timely upon relocating. He also mentioned that this is historical and might take a while to resolve.

Sir, I believe that the ministry plans for these transfers. Does this mean that the ministry does not take into consideration the aspect of pay points to the extent that they become accumulative? Further, are these moves not planned so that arrangements are made to ensure that the pay points are also changed?

Mr Mabumba (Mwense): Mr Speaker, if Hon. Miyutu looks at the structure of the education establishment, he will see that we have the head office, the province and the district. Sometimes, transfers are issued at different levels. I accept that this has been a challenge, but it is one that we are committed to resolving as part of the reform around the recruitment and deployment of teachers. Hon. Miyutu will hear an announcement from me on how we plan to progress on account of the many challenges that we have had around this particular issue before the end of year. It is an issue that I will give a lot of attention. Working with my colleagues who have these challenges in their constituencies, I believe we will be able to resolve them together.

I thank you, Sir.

REPLACEMENT OF CEILING BOARD AT PHIKAMALAZA LOCAL COURT

137. Mr Zimba (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Justice

whether the Government had any plans to replace the ceiling board which was destroyed by rodents at the newly-constructed Phikamalaza Local Court in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency;

if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

when the court would be opened.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1810 hours until 1830 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the damaged iron sheets and ceiling boards, which were destroyed by rodents at the newly-constructed Phikamalaza Local Court in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency, will be replaced during this financial year.

Mr Speaker, the court is currently operating from the old building and the newly-constructed structure will come into use once the damaged iron sheets and ceiling board are replaced.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, the ceiling board of a newly-constructed local court being destroyed by rodents before the building is even officially opened, I think, for the people of Chimwemwe, is a clear case of criminal negligence on the part of both the contractor and the area buildings engineer in Chasefu. In fact, the question should be rephrased and that is my question: When will the ministry compel the contractor to get back on site to replace the ceiling board at no cost to the Government, failure to which the ministry should consider dragging this contractor, together with the buildings engineer, to court for criminal negligence and possibly abuse of public funds.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I should have put the term newly-constructed in context. The structure was built eight years ago. Obviously, whatever defects that occur now would not be a liability on the part of the contractor.

I thank you, Sir.

ELECTRIFICATION OF CHIEF INGWE’S PALACE

138. Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa) asked the Minister of Energy:

(a) why the electrification of Chief Ingwe’s Palace in Kasempa District had stalled;

(b) when the project would resume;

(c) what had caused the delay in completing the project; and

(d) what the timeframe for the completion of the outstanding work was.

The Minister of Energy (Mr Nkhuwa): Mr Speaker, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) completed all the electrification works at Chief Ingwe’s Palace in 2017.

Mr Speaker, the project had two components, namely: the construction of the feeder at 11kV and internal wiring of the palace and all Government structures. The 11kV works were completed in December, 2016 while the internal wiring whose works only commenced in September, …

Mrs M. Phiri was conversing with Mr Nyirenda.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, just a moment.

The two hon. Members, you cannot communicate from such a distance from each other.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The result is obvious. You will disturb the proceedings. You can take a walk out and engage yourselves.

Hon. Minister, please, continue.

Mr Nkhuwa: ... 2017 were completed in November, 2017.

Sir, all works have since been completed. However, targeted beneficiaries have not applied for connection despite the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) sending a marketing team to entice the would-be customers to apply for connection.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Tambatamba: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the service facilities that are surrounding the palace, which include the clinic at Kankolonkolo, which is close to the palace and the local court, will be included in that electrification programme because they are part of the chief’s village.

Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, I will read part (c) of the answer again. The project had two components, namely; the construction of the feeder at 11kV and internal wiring of the palace and all Government structures. It says all Government structures. I think that is the answer to that question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in a position to give us a schedule of the rural electrification works REA will undertake this year to avoid many questions from us, hon. Members from rural constituencies. I am aware of the fact that the situation in Kasempa is not different from what it is obtaining elsewhere, including in Zambezi East, where I come from. There are a lot of projects that have been announced and we are aware that many of our palaces are to be electrified through a REA programme. However, we do not have sufficient information to enable us to make follow ups, as Members of Parliament. I can cite a few examples, Chief Ishima and Chief Nyakuleng’a’s palaces, the Palata Mission, including Chitokoloki Mission were said to be in the pipeline of being electrified. Now, can we have information that will help us follow up these issues for we do not seem to have it apart from receiving a few phone calls from your ministry staff asking us for priority areas and targeted Government institutions?

Mr Mung’andu: Ask your question, iwe.

Mr Kambita: Please, give us the information. Is the hon. Minister in a position to give us the information?

Mr Nkhuwa: Mr Speaker, that information will be availed to the hon. Members of Parliament on REA projects for the entire country.

I thank you, Sir.

MUMBWA/KASEMPA ROAD TARRING

139. Ms Tambatamba asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:

when the contract for tarring the Mumbwa/Kasempa Road, under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project would be signed;

what the name of the contractor for the project was;

what the total cost of the project was;

what the timeframe for undertaking the project was; and

how many jobs would be created by the project.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the contract for tarring the Mumbwa/Kasempa Road is expected to be signed after the financing arrangements for the project have been concluded.

Mr Speaker, authority has been granted to engage China Harbour Engineering Company Limited for the engineering, procurement, construction and financing of the project. The cost of the project will be known once the financing terms are concluded.

Mr Speaker, the estimated duration of the project is thirty-six months. It is expected that a minimum of 300 local jobs will be created.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kamondo (Mufumbwe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister must be aware that this route has a pontoon at Kafue River. I would like to find out whether the contract will also include the construction of the bridges.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, in my response, I stated that authority has been granted to engage China Harbour Engineering Company Limited for the engineering, procurement, construction and financing of the project. This means that the construction will include coming up with a detailed design. Therefore, during the designing period, this will be taken into consideration. Obviously, the contractor cannot build a road that is passing through the river without taking into consideration the cost of putting up a bridge.

Mr Nanjuwa (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, the Mumbwa/Kasempa Road was actually commissioned by the His Excellency the President in 2016 when he came to Mumbwa. This road is now in a deplorable state. What measures is this Government putting in place to make this road passable before the contract is finally agreed upon?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the first part of the question requires consultation because I am not aware whether this road project was commissioned. On the list of projects that we have, it is not amongst those that were commissioned. As we are waiting for the contract to be finalised by the Ministry of Finance and the lending institution, we will look at the road and see in which state it is so that we can make it passable.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ngulube: Mr Speaker, the distance between Mumbwa and Kasempa is only 250 km, plus or minus. This road is of economic value because of the several mining activities in Kasempa and Mumbwa. If this road is quickly worked on, we are aware that it will shorten the distance to Kasempa by more than 500 km from Lusaka. Are there any measures the ministry will put in place to ensure that even before the contractor commences the works on the road, either the Zambia National Service (ZNS), the Road Development Agency (RDA) or the Rural Roads Unit (RRU), which was transferred to the ZNS, are mobilised so that, at least, the people of Kasempa and all the Zambians, who are actually dependant on that route, are able to use the road?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I thought I dealt with that question. Maybe, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwe just wanted to use the Parliamentary microphone.

Laughter

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, this question was asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa and I dealt with it. I stated that we will look at the status of the road and see if it requires attention before the contractor moves on site. We realise the economic importance of this road. That is why we have begun the procurement process.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambita: Mr Speaker, I am aware that the law that guides us on planned expenditure is what is contained in the Yellow Book that we passed in the last meeting. In that book, under the Budget line for infrastructure, none of these roads here have been budgeted for. They are not part of the K71,662,385,976 Budget. This means that they have been planned for, but have not been allocated any money. This is effectively telling us the people of the North-Western Province that this Government does not mind much about the Mumbwa/Kasempa Road. Could the hon. Minister give us reasonable assurance that this road will be attended to. He should also be able to tell us where the money will come from.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, the people of the North-Western Province are fully cared for by this Government. Currently, one of the most expensive projects this Government is undertaking is the route to the North-Western Province because it cares for the people there. The Chingola/Solwezi Road project was supposed to be implemented in 2019, but it was brought down to 2015. This project is almost complete. I, therefore, want to assure the people of the North-Western Province that this Government will continue providing social and economic benefits to them.

Mr Speaker, apart from the roads, the North-Western Province is the only province which has been connected to the national grid. The Government did that at a huge cost because it cares for the people of the North-Western Province. This road is included under Head 21 – Ministry of Finance, under which works are projected. After that, the RDA also comes up with the Annual Infrastructure Work Plan. If the hon. Member cared to listen, I said that the Government will procure this under engineering, procurement, construction and financing. The project will follow those steps. That is how much the Government cares about the people of the North-Western Province. There are a number of projects that the Government is implementing in the North-Western Province that I cannot count them one by one. Where the queen comes from in the North-Western Province, people are very happy that the Government cares about them. By queen, I mean my wife.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nyirenda (Lundazi Central): Mr Speaker, when will the contract to tar the Lundazi/Chama Road, which is also under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, be signed?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chabi: Ema parallel questions aya.

Interruptions

Mr Ngulube: Ema independent aya!

Mr Speaker: You see, hon. Member for Lundazi Central, there are many roads under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. So, this particular question focused on the Mumbwa/Kasempa Road, and this is not a licence to ask about progress on any other road on this very mammoth project. So, I will disallow that question.

__________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business (Mr Chungu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

__________

The House adjourned at 1852 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 22^nd February, 2018.

__________

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Wednesday, 21st February, 2018

Order Paper

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