Friday, 20th October, 2017

Friday, 20^thOctober, 2017

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_____

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the Business it will consider next week.

Madam Speaker, on Wednesday, 25^th October, 2017, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Committee Stage of the Corporate Insolvency Bill, 2017.

Thereafter, the House will consider a Private Member’s Motion entitled Expedite the Enactment of Legislation on the Constituency Development Fund, to be moved by the hon. Member for Choma Central Parliamentary Constituency. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

Head 04 – Ministry of Gender; and

Head 05 – Electoral Commission.

Madam Speaker, on Thursday, 26^th October, 2017, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply and the following Heads of Expenditure will be considered:

Head 07 – Office of the Auditor-General;

Head 08 – Cabinet Office – Office of the President; and

Head 09 – Teaching Service Commission – Office of the President.

Madam Speaker, on Friday, 27^th October, 2017, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Committee Stage of the Companies Bill, 2017. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

Head 11 – Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs;

Head 15 – Ministry of Home Affairs; and

Head 16 – Drug Enforcement Commission.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

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HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Madam Speaker, areas in Luapula and part of Northern Provinces such as Nchelenge, Chienge, Kaputa, Chimbamilonga and Mpulungu have received a number of refugees from the neighbouring Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President what preparations the Government has put in place because the number of refugees is overwhelming even for the people living in those areas.

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs gave a detailed Ministerial Statement to the House, only a few weeks ago, informing the nation about the status and state of refugees in the country.

Madam Speaker, the influx of people from the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) has been continuous. A number of people have been running away from political conflict in that country to cross the border, particularly at Chienge, to seek asylum in Zambia. Amongst these asylum seekers are large number of children, who walk all the way from the Congo into Zambia, unaccompanied. There are also large numbers of pregnant women. As of last week, the number of pregnant women who have walked into Zambia to seek asylum totaled 192.

Madam Speaker, this state of affairs has definitely created a humanitarian crisis in the country. Luckily, however, the Zambian Government, through its agencies, has mobilised resources to tackle the problem. Also the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, the United Nations Children’s Fund (UNICEF), United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA), the Red Cross Society, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), the Ministry of Health, the Ministry of Home Affairs, Defence and others have come together to tackle the situation. I must state that as of now the situation is under control.

I give thanks to the chiefs of Luapula Province, especially to those in Chienge, for giving the Government a piece of land to settle the incoming refugees in transit homes before they are finally settled in other parts of the country.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to seek clarification from the Government through Her Honour the Vice-President.

Madam, on his way back from the trip, which His Excellency, the President, undertook to Saudi Arabia, he assured the country that one of the benefits the country would reap from his trips would be the reduction of the cost of fuel. As a country, we almost got thrilled because we were told that fuel would be costing K5 per litre.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Madam, at the moment, fuel has been increased by almost K2 per litre, whereby the pump price for petrol is trading at almost K13. When will the citizens of this Republic practically benefit from the trip to Saudi Arabia?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, indeed, the trips that His Excellency, the President, makes to other countries benefit Zambia greatly. Some trips maybe in monetary support services and some maybe in other intangible benefits for the country. On the specific question on the trip to Saudi Arabia, I want to state that the Government of that country had promised US$20 million worth of support to Zambia, but then, the US$20 million does not mean that it would assure a supply for a very long period of time.

Madam Speaker, in any case, the price of oil on the international market fluctuates and as it fluctuates, we are also affected here in Zambia. Therefore, we should accept this as a reality of international global transactions. We cannot hide in a cocoon or corner thinking that we will not be affected by certain things that are external to our own situation. In order to give a very comprehensive picture regarding the rise in the cost of fuel, the hon. Minister of Energy will come to the House possibly early next week to issue a ministerial statement for the country to know why there has been this adjustment.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Madam Speaker, during the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants (CIMA) Meeting in Lusaka last week, the hon. Minister of National Development and Planning, Hon. Lucky Mulusa is quoted to have disparaged the procurement of the forty-two fire tenders …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: … by likening them to wheelbarrows. In his own words, he compared them to that of the Liverpool City purchase …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: … at the same purchase.

Madam Speaker, it is the belief of the people of Chimwemwe that Cabinet sat and approved the purchase, which we have since welcomed and therefore, the hon. Minister is bound by the principle of collective responsibility. Is the Government considering asking the hon. Minister to resign for going against the principle of collective responsibility?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Do not resign, Mulusa!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I regret that I was not privy to the statement that was made by Hon. Mulusa, but being what it is and having received some report regarding the statement that the hon. Minister made, there are certain channels that we use in the Government and in the party to discipline ailing hon. Ministers or hon. Members of Parliament. Further, this matter will be dealt with through the Ministerial Code of Conduct and other disciplinary measures that Government will deem fit to apply in this particular situation.

Madam, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, during the trips, which Her Honour the Vice-President undertook to Lukulu, Mangango, Mitete and Kabompo, the Government promised that the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa/Mumbezi road will soon be worked on. When will this promise be actualised?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, when the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development issued a ministerial statement about two to three days ago, he categorically mentioned that Katunda/Lukulu Road would be worked on next year.

Madam Speaker, I was recently in Lukulu, Kabompo, Mitete and other areas that the hon. Member has mentioned. I want to state that all these places have now been connected to the national electricity grid from the diesel-generators that they were using in the past. These areas are now lit up and the people in those areas are very happy about this development. The Government made a promise to introduce electricity in those districts and they have done it. This is something that has not happened in more than fifty years of existence …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … of the North Western and Western provinces. Therefore, even the Katunda/Lukulu Road will definitely be attended to by the Government because Government promises are Government assurances that need to be fulfilled.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Madam Speaker, Zambia is a Christian nation. His Excellency, the Republican President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, has made serious strides to actualise this country as …

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Laughter

Mr Kafwaya: …a declared Christian nation by not only establishing the Ministry of Religious Affairs and National Guidance, but by also declaring 18^th October as a National Day of Prayer.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya: Madam, we have seen the benefits of this day.

Interruptions

Mr Kafwaya: Madam Speaker, I would like to know what Her Honour the Vice-President thinks about individuals and groups of individuals, who continue to politicise this day.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, 18^th October, 2017, which is the National Day of Prayer, was a great success in that Zambians from all corners of the country came together to celebrate and pray to their God for the peace that the country is enjoying and has enjoyed over the years. They also celebrated and prayed for the unity that we still experience in the country. It was a joyous occasion to see young people celebrating with the elderly. This must have moved some people who thought that there will be no Zambian who would attend this function, simply because they said so.

Madam Speaker, the National Day of Prayer is a calling to anybody who believes in the values of Christianity.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Those that do not believe in Christianity do not have to attend functions pertaining to this day. There is no way you can force anyone to go to church. My church secretary announces programmes in the church every Sunday. These are the happenings of the following week. I do not expect the secretary to write to me every day to go and pray with others. It is an individual calling. It is in the heart. If you do not want, you can stay away.

Madam Speaker, the National Day of Prayer was a joyous day because it made Zambians to reflect on some of their Christian values. These are some of the things they believe can bring this country together like forgiving one another and working together in peace in order to harmonise differences that divide us as a people. I look forward to more days and more Sundays where Christian believers will continue praying for forgiveness and reconciliation with one another starting from our homes up to the national level.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Siwale (Mafinga): Madam Speaker, what does Her Honour the Vice-President think about people who are advancing hatred through corruption claims without providing any evidence to the security wings?

Laughter

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Members! Order!

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order in the House! You are just losing time. I will wait until order returns to the House.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am waiting for calm in the House, but I know that the time is not waiting.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the fight against corruption is one which we should not trivialise as political players. Corruption eats at the fabric of our society or any society for that matter. Corruption impoverishes the poor and benefits those that have; the rich. That is why it is very important for the people of Zambia to know that fighting corruption should be a collaborative matter. We should all fight corruption together. Whenever we see the head of corruption coming to the surface, let us fight together.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: However, the way we have debated the few issues relating to cases such as the fire engines tender and procurement of other services leaves a lot to be desired. For the fire engines tender, the President of this country has implored the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) to investigate the matter further.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Therefore, if there are any issues or evidence that can be brought to the fore, this evidence should be brought to the ACC …

Mr Kambwili: Na Chiluba efyo ale landa!

The Vice-President: … so that the whole process is reexamined and those that are found to have done something wrong should be punished. However, what we are doing is to use certain cases to target our perceived political enemies. This is trivialising the fight against corruption because if we continue on this road, it means that we are undermining the institutions of governance such as the ACC and other investigative wings of Government that should probe these matters and bring the culprits to book. Further, the way we are handling these matters is as though we just want to discredit the current administration. That defeats the fight against corruption because when you have evidence or facts, take this evidence to the rightful wings of Government that will investigate and prosecute the offenders. The way we are handling the matter is that we are actually undermining the Presidency itself because some seem to think that the President is not taking measures to curb any wrongdoing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: The President is at the forefront to instigate …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

The Vice-President: You can question because you are not near him every day. Those of us who work with the President know the way he is doing. He is the biggest fighter of corruption.

Therefore, I urge hon. Members to be truthful. Let us not be in the House to champion causes that may not benefit us. If an individual is aggrieved simply because a contract was not fulfilled, do not agree to be used to champion the cause.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Twalimu juba!

The Vice-President: We are here to fight corruption at every level.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, we need to be serious about the fight against corruption. Let us not use it as a scapegoat for political acrimony and finger pointing.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, on two occasions, during the 2015 by-elections and 2016 general elections to be precise, Her Honour the Vice-President herself, promised the people of Livingstone that both the Intercity Bus Terminus and Town Centre Market would be completed. What is the Government’s position on the matter?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, Government assurances are binding and I can promise the hon. Member for Livingstone that the bus terminal and the market will be completed. The Government has promised to complete all the infrastructure that was left at certain levels and the bus terminus in Livingstone is one of those. I can promise you that the hon. Minister of Local Government has already allocated resources to ensure that the bus terminus and the market are completed in Livingstone.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Chisangano (Gwembe): Madam Speaker, of late, we have been seeing and hearing of massive transfers in the councils. I would like to know whether these have been planned and budgeted for because they are eating a lot of resources from the councils.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, transfers, whether in the Civil Service or in local councils, are normal Government transaction of services in these institutions. It is not strange for a staff worker in a council in Siavonga or Kitwe to be transferred to another station. This is a normal process.

You know very well if you have worked in the Government before, that you are bound to be transferred when need arises because your services may be required in one part of the country where your supervisors have seen a need to transfer you to. Therefore, this is not strange and it is not happening only in local councils, but in other institutions as well. It also happens in the private sector.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Tambatamba (Kasempa): Madam Speaker, we are all here today enjoying many natural resources because our ancestors passed them on to us. These resources include forests. In recent times, there has been a lot of debate and discussion about the indiscriminate extraction of mukula trees. Most of the time, this has been discussed in the context of many other provinces.

In the North-Western Province, particularly in Mufumbwe and Kasempa, and I am sure in many other places, there is a very huge indiscriminate extraction and theft of that natural resource yet, our people remain poor. People who are coming from elsewhere are benefiting from the mukula trees. The Treasury is also being denied the taxes that are supposed to come from the sale of these trees. What emergency measures are going to be put in place to arrest the criminals who are extracting and getting away with our resources that we require so much from Kasempa and Mufumbwe?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the harvesting of mukula trees and other timber species from the country by unscrupulous individuals is of great concern to the Government. That is why the Government was very decisive in stopping the appetite of some of our people and foreigners who were exporting mukula trees.

The Government has deployed the defence forces to guard the areas where mukula trees are being harvested and this will continue until the situation normalises. I know that the North-Western Province and many other areas like Muchinga and the Eastern Province have suffered from this scourge.

The Government is on top of things and has put measures in place to ensure that even the stolen harvested mukula trees will find some use in the hands of the Government to help the communities where the mukula trees were cut.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’ambi (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, we have experienced altercations between the people of Zambia and the police service in many parts of the country. I will cite an incident in Kasama where mourners were forced to take their coffin to a police station. There was also another incident in the North-Western Province where there was a similar altercation and Government property such as a police station and motor vehicles were destroyed. Loss of life was possibly experienced.

Is the Government considering increasing funding to the Zambia Police Service for the training of police officers on human rights, so that we can avert such happenings in other parts of the country?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, training of police officers on human rights has already started because the Government has realised that perhaps, not all of the police officers had undergone this type of training to understand how to interact with the general public and their duty is to protect the property and security of Zambians.

As leaders in this House, we represent people in our constituencies. I think it is imperative on our part to ensure that we sensitise the people on the way they should conduct themselves as they interact with the police, instead of inciting them to rise against the police. That will not help the situation. We need proper understanding of the behavioural or human relations so that we cement the relationship and minimise conflicts between communities and the police.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mwiinga (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, I am sure Her Honour the Vice-President has just come from her prayers and I am sure she actually repented.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mwiinga: I want to find out ...

Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, you can only proceed with your question after withdrawal of the part where you referred to repentance. Withdraw that part.

Mr Mwiinga: I will withdraw, but the fact is that they went for prayers, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Withdraw and then proceed with your question.

Mr Mwiinga: I have withdrawn.

Madam Speaker, I want to find out when farmers nationwide are going to be paid for their maize.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

[The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I beg your indulgence that the hon. Member of Parliament for Chikankata repeats his question.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can you repeat your question, hon. Member of Parliament for Chikankata?

Ms Mulenga: Waona manje!

Mr Mwiinga: When are the farmers going to be paid for the maize deliveries across the country?

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the payment of farmers of the delivered maize to Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is ongoing. I cannot guarantee that FRA will be in Chikankata today or tomorrow. However, I know that the farmers will be paid as the process is still going on.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chiteme (Nkana): Madam Speaker, what interventions has the Government put in place considering the outbreak of cholera within Lusaka. What other interventions has the Government put in place to prevent the cholera outbreak spreading further to other provinces.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it is regrettable that once again cholera has broken out in Lusaka. However, thanks to Government for taking measures to put the situation under control. The Lusaka City Council in conjunction with other stakeholders have mounted a campaign to sensitise the people, especially the street vendors, to be aware of the dangers of cholera, on how protect ourselves and our communities and to stop selling cooked foodstuffs in the markets in open air to stop the spread of cholera.

More importantly, to ensure that the shallow wells are covered in some the compounds especially the unplanned settlements where they have no running water. We have found that contaminated water has been the transmitter of cholera in these areas.

Therefore, the Lusaka Water and Sewerage Company (LWSC) has taken measures to provide safe drinking water to affected communities free of charge because of the nature of the disease. We have decided that we need to make these provisions so that people can have access to good and clean water. These measures are being taken in conjunction with many other stakeholders the Ministry of Health included, who are treating the patients of cholera.

Madam Speaker, the Government is doing its best to ensure that it curbs the spread of cholera to other parts of Lusaka.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Thank you, Madam Speaker, and I would like to thank Her Honour the Vice-President in the manner in which she is responding to questions. She is satisfying everyone.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Madam, there is cholera in Kanyama.

Mr Ngulube: Ema lwele aya!

Mr Mutale: This cholera outbreak might spread to other areas if we do not take precautionary measures. Some of the measures that have been taken to prevent the spread of cholera in Kanyama, gatherings at funerals have been banned. Handshakes at churches have also been discouraged. Now, we are trying to stop the spread of the disease, but the United Party for National Development (UPND) …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mutale: … has been granted rights to have a political rally which will be of a very big gathering. Is Government contemplating on rescinding this decision to allow the UPND to go ahead …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Question!

Mr Mutale: … with this rally because there is cholera in Kanyama.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, I will not address the second part of the question because I was not aware that there was a planned meeting in that area by the political party United Party for National Development (UPND).

However, the situation in Kanyama is currently still under the threat of spreading of cholera. According to the Public Health Act, when cholera or dysentery, typhoid or diseases of that nature hit an area, definitely, public gatherings are forbidden. Nevertheless, whatever actions that the health sector is taking in that area will be in the best interest of the Kanyama people and all the other people concerned.

Therefore, at the moment, public gatherings, especially funerals are not allowed in Kanyama.

Mr Mutale: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: We hope that this situation will not go on for a long time and that the Ministry of Health and other stakeholders will see to it that cholera does not appear in Kanyama anymore.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mulunda (Siavonga): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President what will happen to farmers who have surplus maize, considering that Government, through Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is just going to buy 500 metric tonnes of maize.

The Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member may know or perhaps he is not aware of the fact that the farmers are selling that surplus maize to traders, millers and others who want to use that opportunity to make extra money.

Others are buying maize from the farmers for export purposes. Therefore, this is an opportunity for Zambian entrepreneurs to enter the market and buy as much maize as possible so that they can export that maize to other maize deficit areas especially East Africa where there was drought this past season. In this way they can enhance their businesses.

Therefore, I do not see any challenge in getting maize sold. I wish to advise those farmers who are still keeping their maize to sell it. However, FRA will ensure that the National Strategic Reserves are maintained.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nyirenda (Lundazi Central) Thank you Madam Speaker, …

Mr Mutale: Hear, hear! Idi Amin!

Mr Nyirenda (Lundazi Central): Madam Speaker, what measures have been put in place for the damaged bridges which were washed away by rains in Lundazi because the people in the area are condemning me and the Government for not working on them?

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngulube: Idi Amin!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Her Honour the Vice-President, your hon. Member of Parliament is being condemned for bridges in Lundazi Central Constituency that have been washed away.

Laughter

Her Honour the Vice-President: Madam Speaker, it may not only be Lundazi that has experienced washed away bridges. There are other parts of Zambia where we usually face these calamities. I urge the hon. Member of Parliament for Lundazi to visit the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) so that this case is known and recorded and then we can see what action can be taken in coordination with Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Chanda (Bwana Mkubwa): Madam Speaker, there have been many reports of late in the media about the failure of a deal between the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and Zambia. What is the Government’s position on the IMF deal, if any?

Her Honour the Vice-President: Madam Speaker, the consultations between Zambia and the International Monetary Fund (IMF) have not failed. I believe the hon. Minister of Finance elaborated on the matter only yesterday. The IMF is still in consultation with the Republic of Zambia and has highlighted a few issues that the Ministry of Finance is considering. In due course, the consultations will be concluded.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

___________

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

2017 ADJUSTMENT IN FUEL PRICES

The Minister of Energy (Mr Mabumba): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to present a ministerial statement on the recent fuel price adjustment effected on 17^th October, 2017, by the Energy Regulation Board (ERB). My statement will cover trends in the international oil prices and exchange rate performance, price adjustment in the past year and also the cost recovery on the current petroleum importation.

Madam Speaker, on 20^th October, 2016, I issued a ministerial statement to the National Assembly in which I reported that the ministry’s strategic focus was to gradually remove fuel subsidies and allow the procurement to be self financing. The decision was based on the historical subsidisation of the petroleum sector where the Government estimated accumulated arrears as contained in the report of the Committee of Estimates appointed on 5^th October, 2016, to be in the range of K1.6 million in 2013, K2.7 million in 2015 and K3.9 million in 2016.

Madam Speaker, in view of the foregoing, a policy decision was made to review fuel prices every sixty days to respond to both changes in domestic and international market.

Trends in International Oil Prices and Exchange Rate Performance

Madam Speaker, from the last adjustment on 7^th August, 2017, crude oil prices per barrel increased by about 2.23 per cent from US$48.04 per barrel in August, to US$49.11 per barrel in September, 2017. International oil prices increased owing to expected growth in world consumption particularly in the third quarter of 2017, due to generally favourable economic conditions across the world.

Madam Speaker, meanwhile, during the same period, the Kwacha depreciated by 5.04 per cent against the US Dollar from K8.92 per US Dollar in July, 2017, to K9.37 per US Dollar in September, 2017. Specifically, since the last price adjustment on 7^th August, 2017, the Kwacha has depreciated against the US Dollar by 8.1 per cent from the August average rate of K9.02 per US Dollar to the current level of around K9.75 per US Dollar.

Madam Speaker, it is worth noting, therefore, that due to the recent increase in international oil prices and the depreciation of the Kwacha, the unit price for petroleum feedstock and finished products for the current fuel importation for the October 2017 price review was relatively higher than the most recent importation on which the August 2017 price adjustment was based.

Price Determination of Petroleum Products

Madam Speaker, the ERB uses the cost plus model to determine the wholesale and retail pump prices. The pricing model takes into account both fixed and variable cost. Variable costs are a key deriver of pricing and include global oil prices and the exchange rate of the Kwacha to the US Dollar. Fixed costs in the petroleum value chain do not usually fluctuate and include freight, Zambia Tanzania Pipeline (TAZAMA) and refinery fees, taxes and downstream margins for transporters, oil marketing companies and the dealers.

Madam Speaker, in the last twelve months, fuel prices have been reviewed six times as follows:

Product October January March May August October

2016 2017 2017 2017 2017 2017

Petrol 13.70 12.50 12.50 12.50 11.67 12.97

Diesel 11.40 10.72 10.72 10.72 9.87 11.09

Kerosene 8.03 6.81 6.81 6.81 6.5 7.82

Low Sulphur Gasoil 13.69 13.01 13.01 13.01 12.16 13.38

Madam Speaker, I wanted to provide that information so that hon. Members can draw comparisons.

Madam Speaker, in general, retail pump prices have been adjusted by the ERB since October, 2016, to October, 2017, to respond to market changes premised on customers paying cost reflective prices to promote sustainable supply of petroleum products in the country. Notably, there was no price adjustment in the March and May price revision since they were below the 2.5 per cent threshold. Meanwhile, there was a downward revision of prices in August, 2017, as a result of the performance of the US Dollar and the international oil market prices. Like I said, the prices were adjusted on the 17^th October, 2017, when prices were determined by the depreciation of the Kwacha and the marginal increase in the international oil prices.

Cost Recovery on the Current Petroleum Importation

Madam Speaker, the current energy regulation price review is based on the 102,129.4 metric tonnes of feedstock cargo imported in September, 2017 and imported finished products being 43,219.3 metric tonnes of petrol and 87,581.6 metric tonnes of sulphur gasoil.

Madam Speaker, the total amount that has been spent by suppliers on the current importation of petroleum feedstock and finished petroleum products is US$153.7 million. US$58 million was spent on petroleum feedstock and US$95.7 million was spent on finished petroleum products. Using the appropriate exchange rate, the amount needs to be recovered fully once all the products have been sold on the market.

Madam Speaker, if the August 2017 pricing structure at the exchange rate of K9 per US Dollar was used, the implication would have been that once all products are sold on the market only US$141.6 million would have been recovered instead of US$153.7 million. This means that the Government would have recorded a deficit of US$12.1 million or an equivalent of K1,08.9 million which would have meant subsidising the petroleum sector in order to recover the cost spent on importation if the current wholesale and pump price we maintained.

Madam Speaker, given the limited fiscal space and accumulated arrears, the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) had no strategic option, but to increase fuel prices in October, 2017, as earlier indicated. The cumulative impact of prices reduced since October, 2016, to date shows a gradual reduction in fuel prices as follows:

Cumulative Change in National Uniform Pump Prices

National Uniform Pump Prices K/Litre

Product 14^th October 17^th October Absolute % Change

2016 2017 Variance

Petrol 13.70 12.97 (0.73) (5.33)

Diesel 11.40 11.09 (0.31) (2.72)

Kerosene 8.03 7.82 (0.21) (2.62)

Low Sulphur

Gas Oil 13.69 13.38 (0.31) (2.26)

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I want to emphasise that the recent fuel price adjustment was necessary in order to ensure that fuel prices were cost reflective and that we do not revert to the old system of having the subsidy on fuel as was the case before 14^th October, 2016.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Energy.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, how many middlemen are involved in the petroleum value chain supply in Zambia?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, this question has been asked before on the Floor of this august House. In the Zambian petroleum value chain supply, the middlemen are those institutions that we depend on in this country. For example, we need Indeni Petroleum Refinery Co Ltd to refine the petroleum products and the TAZAMA Pipelines Limited as a Government agency for the distribution of this fuel. The other component of fuel is imported through tracking and the transporters to bring fuel either from Dar-es-Salaam or Beira.

Madam Speaker, we also have the Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) in England and the dealers. These are the few key players that I will be able to refer to who are strategic as far as the Zambia petroleum sector value chain is concerned.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, when the hon. Minister issued a ministerial statement sometime back, he indicated that the Government had removed subsidies from fuel which amounted then, to about US$200 million as a saving. The reason he did that was because he wanted to reduce the Government interference in the manner of regulating fuel prices. The hon. Minister assured the nation also that in future, the Government will not dictate and ERB will not be involved in determining the price of fuel. Can the hon. Minister confirm whether he has backtracked on that statement or changed that position.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker there has never been backtracking on my part or on that of the Government. In the 2017 Budget which Hon. Mutati presented, one of the issues that he raised was the Government to begin a gradual process of disengaging from the procurement of petroleum products for the reasons that many people are aware of, such as inefficiencies. Even as part of that process of the Government disengaging to allow the private sector to be part of the procurement processes of the petroleum products in the country, I have never said that ERB will never have a part. ERB is a Government agency which was created by this august House and it can only stop functioning as such if there is legislation that is passed.

Madam Speaker, in responding to Hon. Tutwa Ngulube’s question, I wish to state that the position is that ERB will continue to have regulatory functions in as far as the pricing structure of fuel is concerned in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Madam Speaker, we have not been listening to the ministerial statement by the hon. Minister because he has left us behind in his pronouncements. Why is it that in Zimbabwe and Botswana, fuel is cheaper than in Zambia? Why is it that in Zambia, the Government has great appetite of exploiting people through increases in the fuel price and taxes and yet the hon. Minister of Finance is saying that the economy is stable? Why is the fuel price being increased every now and then? How efficient is ERB to compare the prices with other countries so that we can come to the same level as our neighbouring countries?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I apologise to Hon. Muchima if he was left behind. I hope he was the only one who was left behind.

Laughter

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, it is not a question of the efficiency of ERB. This board is a regulatory authority. I consider the question which Hon. Jamba asked as very pertinent because he wanted to know the players who are part of the petroleum supply value chain. It is important for my colleagues to be aware that Zambia is not near the coast. If you look at countries such as Kenya, Tanzania and South Africa, which are near the coast, their petroleum, in terms of pricing are different from Zambia.

Interruptions

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, the prices in some of the countries which my colleagues are referring to are not as cheap as those in Zambia. I am saying so because we do compare. At the time we reduced our fuel products in August, 2017, our national pump price was very competitive in the countries in the region. In most of the countries in the region, it was about a dollar. In most of the countries in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region, the fuel prices are reviewed every month.

Madam Speaker, in countries such as Kenya, Tanzania and South Africa, their fuel prices are reviewed every month to ensure that their pricing responds to the international oil market prices and the domestic performance of the respective countries’ currencies. This is exactly what we are doing in Zambia. Since Zambia is not near the coast, the policy decision was to review pump prices every sixty days because our cargo for crude oil comes in every forty-five days. In Zambia, we, therefore, felt that we could not review this every forty-five days because of a bit of inefficiencies at the port in Dar-es-Salaam. This is why we decided to agree on a sixty day period.

Madam Speaker, let me assure Hon. Muchima that it is not the inefficiency of ERB. He has to recognise that Zambia is not near the coast where it can be easier to bring in the petroleum product and supply it. Currently, we transport our fuel products from Tanzania and Beira. That adds to the cost.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Cumulative Change in National Uniform Pump Prices

National Uniform Pump Prices K/Litre

Product 14^th October 17^th October Absolute % Change

2016 2017 Variance

Petrol 13.70 12.97 (0.73) (5.33)

Diesel 11.40 11.09 (0.31) (2.72)

Kerosene 8.03 7.82 (0.21) (2.62)

Low Sulphur

Gas Oil 13.69 13.38 (0.31) (2.26)

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Energy.

Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, how many middlemen are involved in the petroleum value chain supply in Zambia?

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I apologise to Hon. Muchima if he was left behind. I hope he was the only one who was left behind.

Laughter

Interruptions

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Chibanda (Mufulira): Madam Speaker, it is clear that we are suffering these increments owing to the fact that we do not have enough storage capacity. Is the ministry considering investing in the storage facilities so that we can be stoking fuel for, maybe, six months in order to avoid the variances owing to the pressure on our currency?

Mr Mushimba: Ema questions aya!

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, this question is very interesting and progressive. It does not really matter how we deal with the pricing structure of fuel in the short term regardless of the performance of the Kwacha. In the long term, what the country requires is to invest in tankages.

Madam Speaker, I want to report to this august House that for some time now, the Government has been investing in tankages. There are storage facilities that have been recently constructed in Solwezi, Mongu and Mpika. Starting from 2018, we have an ambitious programme to build 120,000 metric tonnes of storage facilities in Kikambuni in Tanzania; 60,000 metric tonnes in Kabwe; 6,000 metric tonnes in Choma; 6,000 metric tonnes in Mansa and 6,000 metric tonnes in Chipata.

Madam Speaker, this investment is meant to ensure that once oil prices on the international market go down, Zambia can take advantage to buy it cheaply and store it. We can have stock holding to supply the country for three months without adjusting the fuel price whether the exchange rate fluctuates or the international prices rise. Many countries, such as those in Europe take advantage of investment in their tankages in order to respond to the fluctuations in the domestic an international market.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Madam Speaker,

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngulube: Mwapya baisa!

Mr Nkombo: ... I heard the hon. Minister talk about the importation of crude oil. I would like him to correct this impression to Zambians because we do not import crude, but comingled feed stoke and, that Indeni is not a refinery, but a separator. He should confirm this in his answer.

Madam Speaker, the people of Zambia who are in excess of fifteen million are subsidizing 300 employees of Indeni and this is why the cost price methodology which is a calculation of the cost of the stoke feed, transportation and separation at Indeni is higher than the cost of importing final products which are kerosene, petrol and diesel.

Your Government has insisted on maintaining the 25 per cent Import levy on finished products in order to protect Indeni. This is 300 people against fifteen million people. This is the real reason the fuel price in this country remains unaffordable and affects fifteen million Zambians.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Why can the Government not consider removing the 25 per cent which, if calculated, amounts to so much money in order to cushion the ordinary Zambian who does not even have a motor vehicle, but depends on public transport to go from place to place? The moment you hike fuel by K1 or K2 the person who suffers is the end user because the cost is passed on.

I would like the hon. Minister to give us a categorical answer why this 25 per cent Import Levy cannot be removed to free the importation of finished products so that we can be buying fuel at K6. This is a fact.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, Hon. Nkombo’s question is loaded, but I will try to answer it.

Madam Speaker, ‘crude oil’ can be a generic term. What Zambia imports is comingled feed stoke which is parked with Naphtha and other products in order to allow Indeni to separate it.

Madam Speaker, there are so many ways we can look at the cost structure for the petroleum products in Zambia with regard to both the long and short term measures. The biggest cost in the structure is the Cost Insurance and Freight (CIF) which accounts for about 46 per cent. The Value Added Tax (VAT) and Excise Duty only account for about 18 per cent. The Indeni processing fees that the hon. Member referred to are just about 6 to 9 per cent. Therefore, the processing fee for both TAZAMA and Indeni combined, Hon. Nkombo, is a very insignificant figure that even if we were to reduce, it would not impact the overall pricing structure for the petroleum products.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Mr Mabumba: However, if we dealt with the CIF cost, which is the landed cost of petroleum products which accounts for 46 per cent, it would go a long way in impacting the end user that Hon. Nkombo referred to. We are, however, taking all the necessary measures, including dealing with the CIF cost. Another measure is that we are going to be tendering the procurement of petroleum products, on a quarterly basis so that we do not lock ourselves up in long term contracts.

Madam Speaker, in Kenya and Tanzania, procurement of petroleum products is done on a monthly basis and suppliers compete on the basis of margins and this is what we want to introduce in this country. Suppliers will be competing on the basis of margins and the benefit to this country will obviously be a cheaper product.

Madam Speaker, the Government is aware of the inefficiency at Indeni. The design capacity of Indeni and TAZAMA collectively is 1.1 million metric tonnes, but has reduced to 50 per cent. This is why the Government has to resort to the importation of petroleum products by road. Therefore, the long term decision is to start a gradual modernisation and upgrade of both TAZAMA and Indeni. I hope Hon. Nkombo is with me because I am now trying to answer his question.

In the medium to long term, we need to sort out the inefficiencies that he referred to at Indeni, where the operation capacity sits at 50 per cent. The design capacity is 1.1 million metric tonnes, but it is at 700,000 metric tonnes per annum. Therefore, if we were to go to 1.1 million metric tonnes where the comingled stoke feed is pumped all the way from Tanzania, our pricing will naturally go down because of the volume and the economies of scale. At the moment, the economies of Scale do not favour us because we are producing only 700,000 metric tonnes and the other 700,000 metric tonnes have to be imported by road. Obviously, when you put the cost together, it is expensive.

Madam Speaker, in the short term, there are decisions and mechanisms which we are taking into account. In the long term, especially going into 2018, we will start the modernisation of both Indeni and TAZAMA so that they are able to respond to the market demands.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central made specific reference to Import Levy of 25 per cent.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Second Deputy Speaker: Can you comment on that? He is asking why you would not remove the 25 per cent Import Levy.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I remember in 2016, around September, when we allowed the Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) to import petroleum products on behalf of the country, not the ones that came through the procurement process, at that time I think we had shortages which were looming, that is why tax was removed.

Madam Speaker, at the moment the Government contracts suppliers to bring petroleum products into the country. The applicable taxation is on the Excise Duty and Value Added Tax (VAT). However, when there is an emergency in the country, the 25 per cent tax is waived.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Madam Speaker, it happens that in a country like Zambia there are institutions that are mandated to perform certain tasks. Institutions like the Energy Regulation Board together with the Government are privileged to get some incentives of some kind such that they do not feel the full impact of fuel price increases. The hon. Minister was trying to explain when answering to Hon. Nkombo’s question. I am not satisfied with his answer.

Mr Nkombo: Even me.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister know that the high number of taxes contributes to the high cost of a product.

Ms Kasune: Yes!

Mr Miyutu: If the hon. Minister agrees with me, why does the Government fail to reduce the number of taxes …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: … which are put on the cost or procurement of fuel into Zambia such that it will result into reduced …

Mr E. Mulenga: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Ngulube: Drink some water.

Mr E. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I want to thank you for allowing me to rise on a serious point of order bordering on the security of the nation.

Madam Speaker, I will cite three sections of the Constitution…

Mr Mutale: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Mulenga: That is Cap 6, subsection (a)…

Mr Ngulube: Article 6.

Laughter

Mr E. Mulenga: …(i) and Cap 66…

Mr Ngulube: Article!

Mr E. Mulenga: Article 6 of the State Securities Act says:

(1) Any person who, for the purpose of gaining or assisting any other person to gain admission to a protected place or for any other purpose prejudicial to the safety or interests of the Republic-

(a) without lawful authority uses wears, has in his possession, imports or manufactures any uniform of the Defence Force or of the Police Force or any other official uniform of the Republic, or any uniform or dress so closely resembling the same as to be likely to deceive, or falsely represents himself to be a person who is or has been entitled to wear or use any such uniform;

In Cap 16 …

Mr Ngulube: Article 16.

Mr Mulenga: Madam Speaker, Article 16 of the State Securities Act states that:

“Any person convicted of an offence under this Act for which no penalty is provided shall be liable on conviction to imprisonment for a term of not less than five years, but not exceeding ten years.”

Madam Speaker, Article 66, section 1, subsection (a) and (b) …

Mr Chabi: Ema lawyers aya!

Laughter

Mr Chabi: Ma State Counsel.

Mr Mutale: Hammer, hammer!

Mr E. Mulenga: … states:

“Any person who-

(a) without the permission of the President, trains or drills any other person to the use of arms or practice of military …

Mr Ngulube: Ni Penal Code iyo!

Mr Mulenga: …exercise, movement or evaluation; or”

“(b) is present at an meeting or assembly of persons held without the permission of the President for the purpose of training or drilling any other persons to use of arms or the practice of military exercise, movement or evaluation is guilty of a felony and is liable to imprisonment for seven years.”

Madam Speaker, having quoted the…

Mr Ngulube: The Penal code.

Mr E. Mulenga: … the Penal Code of the laws of Zambia...

Madam Speaker, in my hands, I have a copy of the Daily Nation newspaper, volume 3, issue number 1796 dated Tuesday, 17^th October, 2017. I shall lay the newspaper on the Table of the House. This newspaper is showing members of the United Party for National Development (UPND) being led by Hon. Cornelius Mweetwa.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Question.

Mr E. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, Hon. Cornelius Mweetwa is not just a hon. Member of Parliament, but a former senior police officer and…

Laughter

Mr E. Mulenga: …a lawyer who knows the provisions of the law and …

Mr Chabi: Consequences.

Mr E. Mulenga: … the consequences of doing what he did.

Madam Speaker, as a nation, we have enjoyed peace for the past fifty-three years...

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Mulenga: …and we want to continue enjoying peace. As one of the leaders of today, I want to leave the nation of Zambia in peace for our children.

Madam Speaker, my point of order is against the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

Mr Chabi: Is he in order.

Mr E. Mulenga: Is he in order…

Mr Chabi: Not to arrest.

Mr E. Mulenga: … not to act on these people. Is he in order to state to the nation…

Laughter

Mr E. Mulenga: …whether…

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are protected.

Please continue.

Hon. PF Members: Hammer, hammer!

Mr E. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I thank you for…

Mr Chabi: Your protection.

Mr E. Mulenga: … your protection. Is the Minister of Home Affairs in order not to enforce this Penal Code on these people who are abrogating the law of Zambia…

Mr Chabi: With impunity.

Mr E. Mulenga: They are abrogating the law with impunity. I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr E. Mulenga did not proceed to lay the document on the Table of the House.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Are you done with your point of order?

Are you still speaking?

Mr E. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I need a serious ruling on this matter.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. Mulenga proceeded to lay the document on the Table of the House.

Mr Ngulube: Ema laying aya!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: The serious ruling is as follows:

Mr Chabi: Hmm!

Apapeni?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Firstly, the hon. Member has made reference to Constitutional provisions. He has also made reference to a number of pieces of legislation. I think two or three pieces of legislation. In his reference, the hon. Member clearly states the provisions of those pieces of legislation concerning the wearing of certain uniforms or materials by the members of the public. The hon. Member further goes on to ask whether the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is in order not to arrest the people in question.

The hon. Minister of Home Affairs does not arrest.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Further, and most importantly, if indeed the hon. Member is convinced that law has been broken and as a law abiding citizen, he should take it upon himself to report …

Mr Muchima: Ten zero!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: …to the relevant authorities…

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: … so that the culprits can indeed be dealt with.

Therefore, the ruling of the Chair is that if indeed the hon. Member is convinced, he should proceed to report this matter to the police.

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Can the hon. Member for Kalabo Central continue with his question.

Mr Miyutu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister at one point stated that when there was a crisis, the Government waived off the fuel levy. Owing to the fact that fuel is the most instrumental product which is required in Zambia for both industrial and domestic use, is the Government not planning to waive it off so that its cost is reduced to enable the citizens to enjoy its benefits?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, Hon. Miyutu’s question is not very different from those asked by other colleagues. However, what is important is for us, as a country, to understand where we have come from. On 5^thOctober, 2016, the Committee on Estimates was appointed to look at the various subsidises that included fuel and electricity. In reference to its report, it stated that the accumulated arrears at that time, which I alluded to in my statement, were K2.7 billion in 2015, K1.6 billion in 2013 and K3.9 billion in 2016. One of its recommendations which came in effect between June and July this year was the gradual removal of fuel subsidises.Therefore, I said that if we had maintained the 9.0 per cent exchange rate that we had in August, 2017, it would have meant the Government having a deficit of US$12.1 million whose equivalent is K108 million. Now, do we want to go back to those subsidises?

Madam Speaker, the Committee noted that subsidises were inefficient and inequitable. This is because the major consumers of the petroleum products are not even these honourable colleagues who are here or the people whom they represent in their constituencies, but the mining and retail sector. Therefore, it would not be fair for the Government to apply a subsidy on a multinational company at the expense of the needs of the people that our colleagues represent in their constituencies. Hon. Miyutu wants a school and college to be completed, and a borehole to be sank in Kalabo. Therefore, if the Government was to invest in consumption subsidises, it would not be able to deliver Hon. Miyutu and Hon. Muchima’s requests in terms of development in Kalabo and Ikeleng’i.

Madam Speaker, this is why the Committee on Estimates at that time suggested that the subsidisation of petroleum products was inefficient and recommended a gradual process to remove that subsidy and that is what we did. The price of fuel in this country should correspond to the international market prices and the performance of the exchange rate and this is why it was adjusted on 17^th October, 2017. The exchange rate is currently at 9.75 per cent, but in August, it was at 9.0 per cent. Therefore, considering these two fundamental variables and also the global oil prices which had marginally changed, from a strategic point of view, the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) had no option, but to increase the price of fuel.

Madam Speaker, the debate in this Chamber, on behalf of the Zambian people whom we represent, should be on how to deal with the inefficiency in the petroleum supply value chain. As Minister, I want to state that the Government is committed to transforming the reforms in the petroleum sub-sector, which as I said, includes the need to modernise both Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Ltd and Tazama Pipelines Ltd because that is the only long term option that we have. If we can upgrade the capacity of Indeni Petroleum Refinery Company Ltd which is currently 700,000 metric tonnes even to 1,000,000 metric tonnes, and because of the scales of the economy, the price of petroleum products in this country would naturally go down.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga Central): Madam Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister’s statement. There are a number of factors attributed to the adjustment of fuel whether downwards or upwards. However, I have observed with deep sorrow, pain and humiliation that when we head towards elections, these factors seem not to come into play. What magic does the Government use to reduce the price of fuel when we head towards the elections which cannot come into play now, four years before the elections?

Hon. PF Members: Good governance!

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I want to refer my colleague to the same report which was submitted on the Floor of this august House by the Committee on Estimates. The Committee also noted that extensive consultations and discussions were undertaken in 2012, with the view to remove the fuel subsidises. Alas, a decision was not made. In 2014, some consultations were again held and, unfortunately, no decision was taken. This is why after the 2016 Elections the Government took a bold decision going forward to gradually migrate the pricing of the petroleum products to cost reflectivity which meant having to adjust the prices within sixty days depending on the performance of the kwacha and the global oil market prices.

Madam Speaker, page 3 of the report explains the movement in terms of petroleum products …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you are stressing yourself unnecessarily. The question was very straight forward. What magic does the Government use to reduce the price of fuel towards the elections? If there is no magic, say so. If there is magic, let the hon. Members know.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, there is no magic because from last year, we have reviewed the price of fuel six times according to the performance of the kwacha and the international market prices.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. M. Zulu (Luangeni): Madam Speaker, the Government will hand over the procurement of fuel to the private sector, and we all know that the private sector is driven by profit. What measures has it put in place to ensure that the private sector does not exploit the poor Zambians in terms of the price of fuel?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, like I said, the ERB will still continue to exercise its regulatory powers over the pricing of fuel.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Zimba (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, considering the performance of the kwacha lately, we might go back to subsidises and this is something we are trying to avoid. The people of Chasefu would like to find out …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Zimba: Madam Speaker, before the health break, I was saying that at the rate that the kwacha is performing, we may have to go back to subsidies to cushion the prices of fuel. Why are the people of Chasefu being punished with fuel price increments because of the poor performance of the kwacha? Why are we using the performance of the kwacha to determine the fuel price?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, we are not punishing the people of Chasefu. In my statement, I identified two drivers for fuel pricing, the fixed cost and the variable cost. The variable cost is the one that includes global oil market prices and the performance of the currency. These are the drivers for fuel pricing world over.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, when the price of fuel goes up, the price of almost all services and food stuffs goes up. The Government has given a paltry 9 per cent salary increment to civil servants. The price of fuel has gone up even before the new salaries are effected.

Hon. Minister, what is your Government doing to cushion the civil servants in this aspect? Further, why is it that when the price of fuel goes up you say that the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) had no option, but to increase, but when the price comes down, …

Mr Mulusa: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Kambwili: …you say that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government …

Mr Mutale: Question!

Mr Mulusa: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Kambwili: …has reduced the fuel price.

Mr Mulusa: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister of Energy, you may respond.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngulube: Ema ignore aya!

Laughter

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, in keeping with our sixty days review period as a policy decision, we have kept this commitment.

In answering Hon. Kambwili’s question, in August, the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), without any influence from the Government, reduced the pump price of fuel because at that time the kwacha to a dollar was around K9. Subsequently, in October, 2017, the kwacha depreciated to about 9.75 per cent and the ERB had no option, but to readjust to respond to these two drivers for fuel pricing.

Madam Speaker, like I said the Government will continue to do its level best to restructure the petroleum sub-sector. Not too long from now, Hon. Kambwili, I will be coming with a more detailed Ministerial Statement on the restructuring of the petroleum sub-sector to address the many concerns that my honourable colleagues have raised on the Floor of this House.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo (Mitete): Madam Speaker, not long ago, the same hon. Minister came here to declare an increase …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I am very reluctant to allow points of order.

Mr Kambwili: But the hon. Minister did not answer my second question.

Mr Mabumba: You asked two questions and I answered one.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mitete you may continue.

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, not long ago, the same hon. Minister right there declared an increase in electricity tariffs from 50 to 75 per cent. Today, he has come back to tell us that fuel prices have gone up. It is no wonder that he is finding it so hard to explain. Zambians will eat this hon. Minister.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Withdraw that hon. Member for Mitete. Zambians do not eat Ministers. Continue.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: I withdraw, Madam Speaker. Hon. Minister, Zambians will not eat you, my friend.

Laughter

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Have you asked your question?

Mr Mutelo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister talked of sixty days review period as a policy decision, from 17^th October to 17^th December, 2017. Meanwhile, the depreciation of the kwacha is getting worse. On 17^th December, 2017, are you going to tell the Zambian people that fuel prices have continued to sky rocket, making their standard of living extremely high? Tell the Zambians.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, as you tell the Zambians, please, deal with the question of cushioning civil servants that was raised by Hon. Kambwili.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, the Government has been taking austerity measures in the recent past, aimed at improving the performance of this economy. The performance of this economy is a collective responsibility for all of us. I appreciate the concerns of my colleagues in terms of fuel price stability because it is a key driver in the way the economy performs.

Madam Speaker, I have informed my hon. Colleagues that we are doing everything possible, both in terms of the short-term and the long term measures in order to ensure that the fuel supply in the country is stable. Nonetheless, it is not that the fuel pricing on a competitive basis in the region is too high. I have just been checking and some of the countries are even on US$1.80 per litre within the region. Therefore, I take the concerns of my hon. Colleagues and all the messages, which they are bringing to me as hon. Minister responsible for energy. I suppose they are loud and clear because we need to work collaboratively and together in order to ensure that we provide an environment that has stability in the fuel pricing.

Madam Speaker, we are not going fail the Zambian people, but we are going to do just that.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’ambi (Chifubu): Madam Speaker, labour and fuel are major components of cost of sales. Therefore, fuel competitiveness at global and region level are critical for a stable business growth and job creation. Over the years, Zambia has been exporting jobs because of the high cost structure generally in Zambia particularly, in the manufacturing sector. This has also made the people particularly, in Chifubu to be concerned that even the few jobs that are there are going to be transferred in the region or to the neighbouring countries. What does the hon. Minister think will be the impact of job creation on the revised of the fuel prices?

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, the impact is going to be marginal because the increase is not too huge for any investor who is in the country to export jobs to another country. My commitment is that we need to work together to reform the sector and ensure that it becomes efficient. This is why we have began that process by allowing the private sector to be part of the process of the procurement of petroleum products on a more regular basis because we believe that we would be able to get competition through that process.

Madam Speaker, in terms of cushioning the fuel prices, I know that when I announce or when the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) announces any adjustments on electricity, there is 200 Kw, which is at 15ngwee, which everybody including my hon. Colleagues are enjoying. This is one way the Government has cushioned people in terms of their income. Therefore, Hon. Kambwili, the 200 kw in terms of the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation Limited (ZESCO) has almost cushioned 500,000 plus customers including, you, Sir, in Roan Constituency.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Fungulwe (Lufwanyama): Madam Speaker, in most cases, when the fuel prices are increased, even the transport sector is affected, which in turn, affects goods and services. What assurance is the hon. Minister going to give to the people of Zambia that public transporters will not increase the fares for ordinary Zambians?

Mr Mabumba: Madam, in many cases when these decisions are made, the Ministry of Transport and Communications and my ministry sits with public transporters and engage them to ensure that we do not over-price the people.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if it is possible for him to avail this House the elements, which makeup the pricing structure for the commingled fuel and also for the finished product so that hon. Members of Parliament can interrogate figures and know what is involved instead of him continuously labouring on the same item.

Mr Mabumba: Madam Speaker, I do not have a problem with that suggestion. As part of the engagement, we will distribute the list to hon. Members of Parliament because I suppose the list is a public document.

I thank you Madam, Speaker.

_____

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PLANS TO DISAGGREGATE DATA ON THE GROSS DOMESTIC PRODUCT (GDP)

66. Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central) (on behalf of Mr Samakayi) (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Development Planning:

whether the Government had any plans to disaggregate data on the Gross Domestic Product (GDP), to show the contribution each province made, in order to encourage competitiveness among the provinces;

if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

if there were no such plans, why?

The Minister of Development Panning (Mr Mulusa): Madam Speaker, before I answer the question, allow me to give a preamble.

Madam Speaker, about this time last year, His Excellency, the President, through his initiative to ensure that decentralisation was achieved, mandated the provincial hon. Ministers to visit China in order to learn the development processes in that country. I was privileged to accompany them in my role as a coordinating hon. Minister. One thing that we learnt there was that decentralisation in China entailed that the provinces existed as economic entities rather than centres for costs and administration and merely waiting to be allocated funds for administration. When we came back, my ministry decided to decompose the DGP figures per province. I am happy to announce that the question which is before us demonstrates the rate at which this Government is ahead of people’s concerns.

Madam Speaker, let me now get back to the response. I wish to inform the House that in responding to the needs of data users, the Government through the Central Statistical Office (CSO) commenced the production of Provincial Gross Domestic Product (P-GDP) in 2017, using an indirect indicator-based approach. So far, the office has produced provincial GDP estimates at current prices for the years 2014 and 2015. It should be noted that provincial GDP estimates will only be produced using final annual GDP Estimates.

Madam Speaker, the Government is now able to show the contribution of each province to the national economy (Total GDP). The results show that Copperbelt Province had the largest share for both years at 29.3 per cent in 2014 and 28.9 per cent in 2015. Lusaka Province had the second largest share of the total GDP at 27.2 per cent in 2014 and 28.5 per cent in 2015. These two provinces collectively accounted for 57 per cent of the total GDP on average during the years under review. Luapula Province had the least share of the total GDP accounting for 2.7 per cent in 2014 and 2.8 per cent in 2015.

Madam Speaker, this is what prompted the leadership in Luapula under Hon. Chilangwa and hon. Members of Parliament and hon. Ministers coming from there to arrange for an investment expo because they could not believe that at the time they had about 360 MW of electricity potential in one river, they were actually contributing zero per cent in terms of energy. Therefore, that disaggregation was very helpful.

Madam Speaker, the Southern Province has the third highest percentage in terms of provincial contribution to the country’s GDP followed by the North-Western Province. However, I think we must be sensitive to the Southern and North-Western Provinces because sometimes the factors that lead to that contribution could be misleading. If you take out the energy sector’s contribution, you would find that the Southern Province contributes very little to the country’s GDP. Even for the North-Western Province, if you took out the mining aspect, it also shows that the province does not contribute as much as it is showing, hence the need for us to continue with the efforts to diversify the economy.

Madam Speaker, as stated earlier, the ministry has already commenced the production of provincial GDP data and, therefore, part (c) of the question does not apply since this process has already commenced. I think the whole question is a little bit late because of the actions that we have already taken regarding the concerns raised.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, it is clear that the hon. Minister has not answered the question. The thinking of Hon. Samakayi was for him to tabulate the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) contribution for all the ten provinces. What the hon. Minister has given us is basically information for three provinces. He has made justification why he has not given the North-Western Province a rating and why he thinks that the Southern Province’s GDP contribution can come down if you remove the energy sector.

What was his thinking around this method of answering? Why did he not, for instance, remove the figures for the mining activities on the Copperbelt Province, the way has done with the energy sector in the Southern Province and mining sector for the North-Western Province? Further, why did he not take out trading for the Lusaka Province because that is what contributes most to the economic activities in the capital? It is a fact that Lusaka is an administrative centre. If you took out the contribution of the administrative aspect, it means removing the activities of all the civil servants who live in Lusaka, including all of us. This would also decimate the GDP contribution for Lusaka. Therefore, why did he decide to take that approach because he has not answered the question?

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, that question is arising from your answer because the question on the Order Paper is very straightforward. I would urge hon. Ministers to focus on the questions that are on the Order Paper as you prepare answers. If you look at the question, it is very specific. The question was whether the Government has plans to disaggregate data on the country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP), and if not, why. However, you have given additional information beyond this question. Please, go ahead hon. Minister and respond to the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, the explanations that I gave, which gave an opportunity to the hon. Member to ask that question, are that as we plan, we must be alive to sensitivities. We must not bury our heads in the sand and think that a particular place can be classified as being a very rich contributor, when actually there is one mover and shaker. It is one factor, which the people of that place do not even benefit from. In our plans, we need to be alive to that so that we may plan to diversify the economy in order to distribute the benefits.

Nonetheless, Madam Speaker, let me just answer the hon. Member by giving the following figures:

Province GDP contribution (%)

Copperbelt 29.3

Lusaka 27.2

Southern 10.1

North-Western 8.1

Central 7.2

Eastern 5.4

Northern 3.7

Muchinga 3.1

Western 3.1

Luapula 2.7

I was saying, let us just be sensitive to the rural provinces like Southern and North-Western, which we have lifted up and be alive to the fact that there is one mover and shaker that has brought them up. However, as hon. Members, we need to partner and come up with strategies to ensure that our provinces contribute in a manner that our ordinary citizens participate without leaving anyone behind.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo stood up.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: You are asking on behalf of the person who posed the question on the Order Paper. Therefore, you cannot have a second bite and ask another follow-up question.

Mr Kopulande (Chembe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister’s answer is very helpful. This is the kind of data that we have been looking for. Last year when I debated the estimates of expenditure for this ministry, particularly with regard to the Central Statistical Office (CSO), I requested for specific disaggregation of data so that we can understand what is going on. It is also important that the hon. Minister goes further to outline sectoral contribution per province and go further down to the level of the district.

Madam Speaker, however, the sad news from the hon. Minister’s answer is that Luapula Province is the poorest and at the same time, it is the lowest contributor to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country. At the same time, it is a well known fact that Luapula is one province that has got some of the highest valuable resources in this country. What is the ministry doing, since it is in charge of national planning, to ensure that the contribution of Luapula Province to the GDP of this country is improved and that there is sufficient investment in the various economic sectors of the province that will make it what it is supposed to be?

Madam Speaker, I know and let me be grateful that the Multi-Facility Economic Zone (MFEZ) for Chembe will be implemented this year, thanks to the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry. The hon. Minister of Finance also made this announcement in his Budget Address. However, we need to do more in Chembe to get more investment and value addition to the natural resources in Luapula Province. Therefore, what is the Ministry of National Development and Planning doing to make sure that Luapula Province becomes what it is supposed to be for the benefit of this country?

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, questions such as; what is the hon. Minister or his ministry doing, are precisely the reasons we are where we are because we shift blame. We always want somebody else to do something about a challenge. However, let me remind the hon. Member that he has actually been part of Luapula’s response to this disposition. He effectively participated in the Luapula Expo and Investment Conference. I must proudly say Luapula Province is leading in terms of responding to the need to decentralise economic management of this country. Therefore, let me tell him what Luapula has done, a process which he has participated in and seems to have immediately forgotten.

Madam Speaker, as a province, Luapula organised a very successful international expo. There were a lot of international investors that congregated in Luapula and the occasion was graced by His Excellency the President of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. After that event, Luapula has had a lot of inquiries. There are a lot of people that want to invest in energy and all the other nineteen sectors.

This information I have here is disaggregated into nineteen sectors and each of those nineteen sectors shows provincial contribution to the total Gross Domestic Product (GDP). This was an initiative by my ministry. You are free to visit my ministry to get information and see how as an hon. Member of Parliament, you can participate in your constituency’s contribution to economic activities so that we raise our people’s standard of living.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kufakwandi (Sesheke Central): Madam Speaker, this disaggregated data correlates with the poverty profile of the country. The least three provinces which contribute the lowest to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) are also the poorest. Now, the fundamental problem is that the budgeting framework cannot bring the poor provinces closer to the ones which are rich.

Is the Government going to use this information in future in terms of resource allocation in the Budget or national development plans to try and bring these provinces which are at the bottom out of poverty? These are questions of infrastructure and lack of capacity to exploit the resources. Like my colleague from Chembe said, are we going to use this type of information to try and allocate more resources to the rural provinces so that they are able to develop and utilise the resources in their areas to increase their contribution to the GDP?

Mr L. Mulusa: Madam Speaker, the issue is not about allocating more resources to a particular province or sector, the issue is about being smart in the way we do things. When we were crafting the 7^thNDP, we realised that we suffer from one illness and that illness is having an overly optimistic view of the State’s capacity to deliver development. We overburdened ourselves with development projects and as a result, we ended up in a disposition where we thinly spread resources. We were, therefore, unable to finish projects on time. We also introduced projects that had not been planned for.

With the President’s guidance that we need to do things smartly, in the 7^thNDP, we decided to constrain ourselves to five sectors that are closely linked to each other such that when we spend resources on one sector, it gives birth to outcomes of the second sector. We do not even need to do anything about the second sector because it is an outcome of the first sector.

If we do something about the first sector, which is economic diversification and job creation, the second sector of poverty and vulnerability will get resolved. When we give district status to settlements where there are many people and give them infrastructure so that they no longer have to travel long distances to access resources, it means that we are dealing with issues of the third sector, which is unequal distribution of development.

Once we do that, we achieve human development, which is the fourth sector. The fifth sector is the most important and is the heart of the development agenda and that is, the desire for us to achieve good governance and reduction of corruption and inefficiencies in procurement. Once we deal with all these things, the rest will fall in place.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kasonso (Solwezi West): Madam Speaker, the figures which the hon. Minister has tabulated today, make very sad reading for the people of the North-Western Province. The hon. Minister himself has indicated that the North-Western Province is ranked fourth among the giant four provinces in terms of their contribution to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). However, in terms of infrastructure, the province drops to number ten.

I am saying so because the offices occupied by the provincial hon. Minister, which were built in 1958, Solwezi Hospital and the roads, look as if the places are in a war zone yet, the hon. Minister has told us that the North-Western Province is contributing 8.1 per cent to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP).

What is he doing as the hon. Minister of National Development and Planning to ensure that what is happening on the Copperbelt Province, which is the number one contributor to GDP, happens in the North-Western Province? All infrastructures are being taken to the Copperbelt Province, but the North-Western Province has been ignored.

What is the hon. Minister doing to ensure that the people of the North-Western Province feel that their ranking of number four in terms of contribution to the GDP, is reflected in the province?

Mr L. Mulusa: Madam Speaker, I thank Hon. Kasonso for that progressive question that actually invokes emotions. I want to tell him that if there is one province where President Lungu has spent the longest time outside Lusaka, it is the North-Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr L. Mulusa: The President has visited the North-Western Province more frequently than any other province and the reason is simple; he was trying to precisely understand the needs of the people of the North-Western Province. When he visited them, they requested for the Chingola/Solwezi Road to be constructed. It was not even in Phase I of the Link 8,000 Km Road Project. If it had been left to remain in Phase II of the project, the only time that road should have been undertaken in terms of rehabilitation, was 2022, but the President brought it into Phase I. Next month, the Chingola/Solwezi Road will have been done.

The township roads throughout the North-Western Province were never in Phase I of the project. The President realised that the North-Western Province is contributing 33 per cent to funding the Budget which Hon. Mutati pronounced at the end of last month. What did he do? He went and commissioned the construction of township roads throughout the province and trunk roads, which are Mushindamo/Solwezi Road, Kasempa/Mumbwa Road, Kasempa/Kaoma Road and the other road going to Jimbe. Contracts have been given for the construction of all these roads.

Now, the very fact that the contracted works have not started has nothing to do with the desire of the Government to deliver development not the North-Western Province.

Madam Speaker, may I say that Hon. Kasonso served in the Government, what did he do about the North-Western Province?

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, do not take that route. You are in Government now.

Mr C. M. Zulu (Luangeni): Madam Speaker, I fail to understand why Luapula Province is far behind in terms of development. It only contributes 2.7 per cent to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). This is a province where we have a lot of resources. We have water and minerals. Everything is there. It had to take an expo for Luapula to be sold to the outside world whilst other provinces did not need an expo. What is the root cause of this?

Hon. Opposition Members: Corruption!

Mr C. M. Zulu: First, we have to establish the root cause before we start talking of solutions. What is the root cause?

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, the route cause is simply the way we have designed our governance system. From time immemorial, we designed our governance system in such a manner that the decisions had to be made from Lusaka and it is not the fault of this Government. Therefore, even if there were opportunities in the provinces, the people in the provinces were not empowered to do anything about it. That disposition has driven the current status of under development. This is the reason we encourage hon. Members to listen to what we are saying and to read.

President Lungu’s unifying theme of campaign in 2015 was ‘continuity with change’. Continuity in the sense that he was going to continue with developmental programmes led by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government under President Sata because they had been part of it. Change in the sense that he studied the way things were being done and he advised that things must be done differently in order to induce efficiency.

One of the efficiencies that President Lungu has induced in his governance is the need for us to practically implement decentralisation. Now, decentralisation should not just be in terms of administration. Decentralisation in this case means running economic activities at provincial and district levels.

Therefore, the reason for our disposition of underdevelopment is the structure of our governance system where all decisions are made from Lusaka. That is why when we were working on the 7^th NDP, the approach we took was from bottom up. We listened to the people who were faced with the challenges of underdevelopment. The only role we played in terms of top-down approach was to induce best practices. Even when inducing best practices, we were careful to make sure that the so-called best practices were seen in the light of the fact that there were outcomes of social and economic conditions which were unique in those jurisdictions where there were generated.

Therefore, decentralisation is the answer and I would like to urge everyone in this august House to partner with us in terms of implementation of President Lungu’s development agenda.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam First Deputy Speaker: I will call upon the hon. Member of Parliament for Moomba and advise him to ask a straight direct question and no preamble.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, information is very important. Going by what the hon. Minister of National Development and Planning has just told us, he has given data for 2014 and 2015. The data he is giving us now is for 2016. As he may be aware, most of the Members are in fact surprised, meaning that this data has just come to light now. My question is: Considering that most of us in here are from rural constituencies, what is he doing about sharing such kind of very important information to the people in the rural areas, so that they make right decisions. Does he have any plans of sharing this information?

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, after having produced this 7^th NDP, the next stage is to translate it into all the seven official languages and distribute them. The money is already available and we had allocated enough money to do so.

I personally will undertake visits to the various provincial centres and engage the people in terms of bringing everybody on board. The statement that ‘we are not leaving anybody behind’ is a very serious statement. I think hon. Members have seen the President spending quite a lot of time in rural areas from time to time. This is part of the process of engaging the electorates to make sure that we demonstrate the respect we have for them for the mandate that they gave us to superintend over the affairs of the country.

Therefore, the 7^th NDP will be translated in the local languages and there will also be engagements in terms of interactions with the people. This programme will start immediately we pass the 2018 Budget.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Jere (Livingstone): Madam Speaker, a country’s Gross Domestic Product (GDP) is calculated using the formula GDP = C + G + I. ‘C’ is equal to the private consumption or consumer spending in the nation’s economy. ‘G’ is equal to the sum of the Government’s spending. ‘I’ is the sum of all the country’s investment including business capital expenditures. My question is on ‘I’, Madam Speaker. I do know whether the Government has policies to ensure that it gives incentives to the private sector so that they can invest in the least developed provinces.

Mr Mulusa: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone could revisit the Budget Policy Statement as delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance, he will realise that there are a lot of incentives that have been induced in the budget to promote investment in the rural areas, including policies that go towards discouragement of exports, especially exports that are in direct competition with locally produced goods.

However, I must also say that we are very disappointed with investors because each time we craft a policy to try and promote private sector investments, the private sector actually comes up and cheats us big time. When we create an investment avenue, where we do not charge taxes to encourage investment, what happens is that after some time, when the investors are supposed to start paying taxes, they simply change business names in order for them to continue benefiting from such a policy.

The Government means well and we have put in place a lot of measures. I would, therefore, encourage the hon. Member to read the Budget Policy Statement again.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Madam Speaker, 8.1 per cent contribution to Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and 33 per cent contribution to next year’s budget is quite colossal, I must say. Taking into consideration the equation of GDP where Government is prominent in order to boost development, the people of North-Western Province are complaining of underdevelopment. They have the potential, but Government investment is missing in this province. We realise that the President has been going through …

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Ask your question, hon. Member.

Mr Lufuma: Yes, just a minute Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: … has been visiting North-Western Province …

Interruptions

Madam First Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Kabompo, ask your question.

Mr Lufuma: When is the Government going to increase investment in North-Western Province in order to boost each contribution from 8.1 per cent and 33 per cent of the budget to a higher level, which will benefit the whole of Zambia? When is the hon. Minister going to seriously invest into North-Western Province in that regard?

G .Mr L. Mulusa: Madam Speaker, I wish to start by appreciating the clarity of thought of the hon. Member who asked the question. I think what he has pointed out actually triggers the need for the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) to look closely at the richest provinces and how little they are contributing towards funding the Budget. It shows that we have not broadened our dragnet in terms of taxes. What makes the North-Western Province contribute that much is because there is only one mover and shaker, which is mining. It is very easy to target, craft policies and enhance the amount of money that is being collected from that province.

Madam Speaker, like I have said, the Government has responded positively because it realises how much the North-Western Province is contributing to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP). The President himself has visited the province and wanted to hear from the people there, but they have boycotted him.

Madam Speaker, a committee of ministers from the North-Western Province can be created and this committee can visit my ministry, the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Commerce Trade and Industry to present ideas. It is not just about sitting there and raising points of order, it should be about giving the Government ideas and about partnerships in governance and development.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

REHABILITATION OF LOCAL COURTS IN CHITAMBO CONSTITUENCY

67 Mr Mutale (Chitambo) asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development when the rehabilitation of Mpelembe and Muchinka Local Courts in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency would commence.

The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Chitotela): Madam Speaker, the Government is committed to the rehabilitate Mpelembe and Muchinka Local Courts in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency. The rehabilitation works will commence in 2018.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, as you are aware, Chitambo only has two local courts and they are now a danger to human life. In his response, the hon. Minister said the courts would be rehabilitated next year. What structure are the people of Chitambo supposed to use as a court for in the meantime?

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, that question is supposed to be directed to the Ministry of Works and Supply because they deal with rehabilitation. However, I have the answer because we are one Government.

Madam Speaker, the Government had the impression that the local court is dilapidated, but the question does not state whether it is in use or not. If the court is not in use then we shall engage the local leadership, through the provincial administration in the Central Province, to find the best mechanisms to ensure that the people in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency are not disadvantaged and can access the services that the Government provides through the Ministry of Justice.

Mr Chaatila (Moomba): Madam Speaker, we are in the month of October and the hon. Minister told the hon. Member that the local court would be rehabilitated in 2018. A year has twelve months. In which month are you going to start? Can you be specific so that the hon. Member does not come back to ask the same question?

Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the time will be made known in January after the Budget is approved. I know the Ministry of Works and Supply will float the tenders to invite people to bid for the project to carry out the rehabilitation because we are a Government that follows the laws created by this Parliament. After the procurement process, which usually takes three to four months, the contractor will move on site and begin the rehabilitation. The catchwords are ‘approval of the Budget’. Once that is done, the Ministry of Works and Supply will consider it in their annual work plan.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

__________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

ESTIMATES OF REVENUE AND EXPENDITURE (INCLUDING CAPITAL AND CONSTITUTIONAL AND STATUTORY EXPENDITURE) FOR THE YEAR 1^ST JANUARY, 2018 TO 31^ST DECEMBER, 2018

VOTE 01 – (Office of the President – State House – K70,508,750).

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to present the 2018 Estimates of Recurrent and Capital Expenditure for Head 01/01 – Office of the President – State House.

Sir, State House is a key Government institution which is also the seat of the Presidency of the Republic of Zambia. As the apex institution in Government, State House plays a critical overarching and support role to the President in the provision of national guidance and overall policy direction of the country. Given this mandate, the policy objective and the role of State House have been developed in line with the mission statement which is:

“To deliver inspirational and visionary leadership to the nation and promote inclusive governance in order to achieve a better life for all Zambians.”

Goal

Mr Chairperson, in support of the mission statement and to give State House specific focus and direction for its operations, the institution’s goal statement reads as follows:

“To achieve effective and efficient advisory and support services for enhanced execution of Executive functions by His Excellency, the President.”

Overview of 2017 Operations

Mr Chairperson, State House encountered various operational challenges during the course of the year 2017. However, the institution has remained focused on achieving its objectives outlined in the strategic plan and has managed within the constraints of inadequate funding to undertake the following programmes:

reviewed the placement of staff;

staff training and motivational programmes;

in line with the 7^th NDP, State House entered into smart partnerships and alliances that provided for synergies with other Government departments, first as a prudent cost saving measure and secondly, as a means of ensuring the upgrade of the State House premises. The works covered included the following:

external and internal painting and maintenance of State House;

refurbishment of Nyerere Lodge and the new State Lodge;

road markings at State House;

removal of obsolete plants and equipment;

landscaping;

relocation of livestock to the State Lodge Farm;

tranquilising and relocation of wildlife to the game parks and the Department of National Parks and Wildlife;

introduction of fish ponds at State Lodge and State House;

refurbishment of the State House Golf Course; and

a successful hosting of a two day Golf Tournament.

The Public Private Partnership Unit

Mr Chairperson, this unit is currently operating as a department under State House in the interim while the establishment of the Public Private Partnership (PPP) Unit as a semi-autonomous statutory body has already been approved in principle by Cabinet and the Amendment Bill is at an advanced stage at the Ministry of Justice. This should be presented to this august House within this sitting.

Duplication of effort has been adequately addressed by State House since only five of the sixteen functions of the PPP unit are undertaken in liaison or consultation with other Government agencies.

The Amendment Bill will ensure the establishment of a feasibility and project development fund to be administered by the Ministry of Finance. This has been the main challenge in implementation of projects.

Synergies have been made with development partners such the World Bank, Department for International Development (DID), and the International Finance Corporation (IFC) as far as the assessment of PPP readiness in Zambia is concerned and helps to assist with viability gap financing on infrastructure development.

Mr Chairperson, the challenges have been in the legal framework and alignment of functions of the PPP unit, technical committee and council. However, this is being addressed through the Amendment Bill, 2016, as detailed in the attached Appendix 1. That also keeps the steering bodies under the Ministry of Finance in order to maintain the fiscal management responsibility within the Treasury.

Thus far, significant progress has been made towards the successful undertaking of the institutions planned programmes and activities for the current fiscal year.

Challenges

Mr Chairperson, inadequate funding has remained one of the major challenges at State House which has negatively affected the operations of key sections especially transportation, catering, and house-keeping for the management of furnishing and fittings for State House. However, to support the 7^th NDP agenda, State House seeks to continue on the path of fostering synergies to support treasury freeing up capital for other pressing development needs in the country such as health, agriculture and education.

2018 Budget Estimates

Mr Chairperson, for the information of the hon. Members, State House functions are performed through four key departments and these are as follows:

Presidential Secretariat

This is responsible for the efficient and effective execution of the Presidential day to day programmes.

Advisory Services

This comprise five district areas of specialisation with the critical role of providing professional and technical backstopping to His Excellency, the President, on various divergent matters.

Administration

This is charged with the role of efficiently and effectively manning staff, provision of logistical and material support services in order to facilitate the smooth operations of the institution. In addition, it is responsible for the maintenance of the State House surroundings and management of the state lodges and the State Lodge Farm.

PPP Unit

The PPP Unit was established in 2009, after the enactment of the PPP Act No. 14 of 2009, to promote the participation of the private sector in the financing, construction, maintenance and operations of any Government projects in the country. In this regard, I am happy to inform you that the PPP Unit has continued to promote private sector participation in the provision of social and economic infrastructure.

Mr Chairperson, the Budget Estimates before this august House will enable State House to upgrade and facilitate efficient operations of its departments, attend to personnel emoluments, maintenance of State House grounds and infrastructure and servicing of the transportation for State House.

Mr Chairperson, let me also mention that being part and parcel of the global village, State House continues to aspire to provide quality services in line with the regional and international community and in pursuance of excellence as an extension of the President. In this regard, I wish to appeal to the hon. Members to support the Estimates of Expenditure for State House as presented.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Dr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to say a few words in support of the vote for State House. Obviously, it would be wrong for anybody not to support the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for State House because State House is the apex for governance in any given country.

However, in supporting it, I have a few observations that I need to bring to the Floor of this House so that remedial measures can be taken to correct certain things.

Mr Chairperson, today, the integrity of State House is at stake and unless we do something about it, Zambia will not be taken seriously. The integrity of State House is at stake because of the unacceptable behaviour and conduct of some of the people who work there.

Mr Chairperson, people who work at State House must be exemplary in their conduct inside and outside State House. However, what we see today is very unbecoming behaviour of some of the people who work there. They do certain things with impunity. I seem not to understand why some people at State House have become untouchable.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kambwili: Certain people have done certain acts that even a little child can know is wrong, but have gotten away with this and continued to behave in a manner that brings State House into disrepute. These days, I am beginning to wonder whether this is the first administration since independence that has certain positions at State House. We never even used hear about certain positions at State House because they operated in the back ground to support the President.

Today, people who work at State House want to be involved in everything in the country from political rallies to procurement, you mention it. How would we be appropriating money to State House when a political adviser to the President is always seen at meetings for a particular political party? Even when he is not accompanying the President, you will hear that he is on the Copperbelt meeting Patriotic Front (PF) officials throughout the districts and yet he is a political adviser to the President and we are watching.

You see, the people of Zambia may seem as though they are not observing some of these things, but these are things that will come out during campaigns. Let those people that are working in the Office of the President do their job at State House.

Mr Chairperson, sometimes I tend to wonder. Wherever the President goes, all the advisers to the President are the ones that are even taking the front row seats, even at public rallies. I do not remember when I saw Dr Kaunda’s political adviser. In any case, I never even knew who his political adviser was despite being a staunch UNIP member and General Secretary for Student Affairs on the Copperbelt.

Mr Chairperson, today, the political adviser to the President has become like a de facto president. This is unacceptable. Sometimes, people seem to wonder whether he even has more authority than the Vice-President because you see more of the political adviser than the Vice-President. If this particular individual does not keep the integrity of State House, the best is to get rid of him. Tulesebana as a nation. We are losing it.

Mr Speaker, we hear that he was involved in a scuffle in some foreign country. When foreign people came at the Independence Stadium, he was involved in pushing police officers. Why should we accept this kind of treatment? Why has this particular individual become untouchable? This is what the people of Zambia are questioning.

By the way, it has now become a norm that people who work at State House, particularly the Civil Servants, are becoming so rich. Is there business at State House that we do not about?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kambwili: We should probably suggest that everybody who is appointed to work at State House must declare their assets and liabilities because it is unacceptable that people we knew as paupers can drive all the Porsche vehicles that you can think of just after working for State House for one year. We are losing it as a country. When people speak ...

Mr Deputy Chairperson of Committees: Order!

The word pauper hon. Member is unparliamentary.

Dr Kambwili: I withdraw and replace it with ‘people who we knew as nobodies and drove Corollas with smoke coming out like ichibili cha malasha.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Chairperson of Committees: Meaning?

Dr Kambwili: You know the process of making charcoal.

Mr Nkombo: A kiln

Dr Kambwili: A kiln of charcoal.

Hon. Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Dr Kambwili: Today, they advertise their riches on their face book pages. They are running 12 to 15 companies. When we suspect corruption, we are asked for evidence. What more evidence do you want? If your own grade 12 child in the House who you know can only get money from you, starts driving Porsche cars, can you not question where the child is getting the money from? Do you need someone from the neighbourhood to come and give you evidence? Let us not pretend that the people of Zambia are not seeing these things.

At the end of the day, it is the PF Government whose integrity will be lost due to the behaviour of one or two particular individuals who we are watching. The onus is on those in authority to correct these things. Some of us have been insulted on face book just by questioning why a person we knew as a journalist not too long ago can have five or six expensive properties in Lusaka. We are asked to bring evidence. We can only advise that we clean up some of these issues because they will put the integrity of the Government and the President at stake.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue is that the Press Aide to the President is not a hon. Minister and should, therefore, stick to his job of being a communications officer on behalf of the President. I have never seen, since independence in this country, where the Press Aide to the President can go all over on international media, Sunday Interviews and so on explaining the policy of the Government from agriculture, mining and everything else.

Hon. UPND Member: Shame!

Dr Kambwili: Where on earth? It is never done like that anywhere, only in Zambia. It is the duty of the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting and Chief Government spokes person to undertake those errands and not the Press Aide to the President. The job of the Press Aide to the President is to inform the country about what is going on when the President has meetings at State House. Today, you find the Press Aide to the President on Sunday Interview speaking about the PF and Government issues. It is never done. That is an abrogation of the Constitution with impunity. Let the right people do the jobs at State House for which we pay them. You cannot go on like that.

As we give money to State House, through this House, let the following issues be considered:

Public Private Partnership (PPP)

You have transferred PPP to State House. This is an abrogation of the Constitution. The PPP Act clearly states that it shall sit under the Ministry of Finance. Why is it sitting at State House? When people suspect corruption, you say that they are speaking without facts. The mere fact that you have transferred PPP, which gives contracts to private public partnership projects, to State House where it is not supposed to be is in itself corruption.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kambwili: Take PPP back to where the Act says it should sit.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kambwili: Otherwise, what is happening is illegal and should be stopped.

Road Development Agency

Mr Chairperson, where does the Constitution say it will sit? It is at the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure. Today, it sits at State House and supervised from there. These are issues that we should avoid in order to maintain integrity.

Supposing there is a query, like we are now querying about the cost of the Lusaka/Ndola Dual Carriageway, who will answer? When we complain, we expect the President to give directives and take remedial measures, but if this is happening within his office, how does he take remedial measures? The man has got immunity, so who are we going to question. That is why people can say bring evidence because they know that even if we bring evidence the whole thing was done at State House and State House has immunity. Get back Roads Development Agency (RDA) to Ronald Chitotela because that is where it is supposed to sit. Should there be issues of corruption; the President’s name will not come in. We could deal with Permanent Secretaries and the hon. Ministers, however, if you want people to continue accusing State House of getting involved in petty deals, keep RDA and Public Private Partnership (PPP) Unit at State House. Ifwe twalishimpula tufwayafye ukwakusha umutwe. We will never stop talking.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: What is the meaning of what you have just said?

Dr Kambwili: Unless right things are done.

The Deputy Chairperson: What is the meaning of your statement?

Mr Kampyongo: Question!

Dr Kambwili: Some of us will not relent until the right thing is done.

Mr Chabi: Even when they slap us.

Laughter

Dr Kambwili: Therefore, as we are giving money to State House, we expect that State House must operate within its confines. Departments that are not supposed to be at State House, get them out so that they can sit where they are supposed to sit.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kambwili: Those civil servants at State House who have gone there to make their own money, misbehave in the name of protecting State House, must be removed. We are tired of these people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kambwili: I am Patriotic Front (PF). I am Member of Parliament for Roan in the PF. I feel ashamed to be associated with such kind of people working at State House…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kambwili: …whose behavior has always made people think twice if State House has integrity or not. Why should people become untouchable?

Mr Nkombo: Just imagine!

Dr Kambwili: If a civil servant commits an offence he is fired. If a hon. Member of Parliament commits an offence, he is taken the Committee of Privileges, Absences and Support Services and sanctioned, why not those Presidential aides.

Mr Nkombo: Yes!

Dr Kambwili: Have they got immunity? May be I have never read the Constitution properly. I need to read the Constitution this afternoon. Maybe they have immunity. We are sick and tired of their behavior. If they are not ready to serve the people of Zambia let them resign so that people with integrity can do those jobs at State House. I hope and trust my elder brother the Principal Private Secretary, Miti, will be bring dignity and sanity to State House because what has been going on there is unacceptable. The other day the President was in Luanshya, one of the aides was driving a Mercedes Benz all over the road from this lane to the other, and people started asking, is this the way this man behaves?

Laughter

Dr Kambwili: Driving from one lane to the other with no police escort, as if he runs the country. What kind of behavior is that?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kambwili: Zambia is not a lawless country where one man can be behaving as if he owns Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Dr Kambwili: People in Luanshya were so surprised. The President had not arrived, but this man was already in Luanshya moving from one lane to the other with a black Mercedes Benz and people were asking, who is this man? Ati ebomufwa aba, ba untouchable.

Laughter

Dr Kambwili: Oh! The people of Zambia are watching.

The Deputy Chairperson: What is the meaning of what you said?

Dr Kambwili: Eh!

This is the untouchable KZ you hear. People know them.

Mr Nkombo: K what?

Dr Kambwili: KZ. Popularly known as KZ or notoriously known as KZ because to be popular is something else and to be notorious is something else.

Mr Chairperson, I support the estimates of revenue and expenditure for State House, but please, may the issues that I have raised …

Dr Kambwili’s time expired.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, Dr Kambwili, your time is finished.

Dr Kambwili: … be dealt with.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, I would like to say that I do support the budget and thank Her Honour the Vice-President for a policy statement on State House. I would like to adopt the words of Hon. Dr Kambwili as my own, but I will try and say things in my own style. The sanctity of State House, state means it is majestic, stately, sacrosanct and therefore, it should not be a subject of abuse both from the people domiciled there and those of us outside. State House should rise above political divide; it should be accessible at any given time.

In moving my debate, Sir, I want to quickly say that there was a chief who brutalised his people. You know brutal dictators do not last long. Normally they have a short shelf life. At the point when the people were taking their positions, the chief went up the tree. All the people did was to light a fire under the tree and went home. They left a small boy to continue putting kerosene to keep the flame on. The chief failed to climb down the tree. A leader must be accessible by even people who do not agree with him.

Mr Lufuma: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: That is the beginning of wisdom for a leader. There have been pronouncements from State House that these hon. Ministers are corrupt. I am just calling my memory to what the President said on 14^th November, 2016. He did not say one hon. Minister, he said I have information that my ministers are corrupt. Therefore, it goes without saying that just like we do not need evidence that Jesus died for us, corruption cannot be seen. Unless you are in the water and you want to ask how they river is, the crocodile will ask the hippo. They will never ask the impala. Now, if we assume that State House was a river, the hippo said there is infestation in this river. The ones who are infesting this river are the crocodiles…

Mr Ngulube: So, who is the hippo?

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: The hippo in this case will be the one who said that there is corruption and the crocodiles are the ones who have been accused of corruption.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, let us not liken human beings to animals.

Mr Nkombo: It is a figure of speech. I withdraw it if it has not landed very well. I want to congratulate you for your demeanor, Sir.

State House is sacrosanct. When you break the law, you are guilty of breaking the law not so? The act of moving the Private Public Partnership Unit from the Ministry of Finance was breaking the law. Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, this is where you come in when the law is broken.

Mr Kampyongo: Which law is broken?

Mr Nkombo: I have the law here (waved a document) talking about the domicility of the PPP Unit. I will lay this document on the Table of the House for you to read, but I want to expulse my thinking.

Sir, this law at Part 4 (2) (iii) was broken by the President by moving the PPP Unit from the Ministry of Finance to State House where he lives which means the President is a law breaker.

Mr Lufuma: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: The difficulty we have is that the President has immunity, but he should not forget about it. I shared about the chief …

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member.

Mr Kampyongo: Iwee! Question! Can you prove that?

The Deputy Chairperson: We cannot be so direct and state that the President is a law maker.

Mr Nkombo: Law breaker. We are the makers. The law we made, he has broken it.

The Deputy Chairperson: The law breaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Nkombo: Who moved the PPP Unit? I do not know, but whoever moved the unit from the Ministry of Finance is a law breaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: We should put it as it is.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

There is decency in arriving at the fact that the law was broken taking it further from what Hon. Kambwili has said. We are legislators. If our colleagues think that the Public Private Partnership (PPP) Unit is correctly seated, let them bring an amendment to shift its locality from the Ministry of Finance to State House. Then no one will talk. That is the way it should have been done and we are paid for that. However, whether you like it or not, the moving of this unit to State House, is an act of breaking the law.

Sir, the point that I am …

Mr Sampa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sampa: Mr Chairperson, I would like to apologise for interrupting the hon. Member who is debating. However, is he in order to refer to His Excellency, the President, as a lawbreaker yet he cannot defend himself before this House. I seek your serious ruling over this matter.

The Deputy Chairperson: This is why it is important not to talk about those who cannot come here and defend themselves. However, I cautioned the hon. Member over the matter. That is my ruling. Continue, hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Hon. UPND Members: Hammer, hammer!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I understand the sensitivities that surround a Head of State. My opening remarks were about the sanctity of the individual and the office where he resides. A President should rise above reproach and nobody should ridicule him. However, the President has subjected himself to ridicule by moving the PPP unit to State House. I stand firm about it and he can respond from wherever he is. I demand that he takes it back to the Ministry of Finance where it is supposed to be. This then reminds me of Hon. Makebi Zulu’s confectionery story where someone was baking bread and the oven was switched off midway, the bread was not fully baked, but it was stolen.

Mr Chairperson, it is not only the Patriotic Front (PF) members who have brilliant ideas. I am talking about the accessibility of State House because I may have a brilliant idea on PPP. However, they should not tell us about things that do not exist. I stand to be corrected, but the only PPP Project that has been successful in this country is East Park Mall. There is no other PPP other than that that has worked. The Zambia Railways (ZR) concession failed. Therefore, they should not be adventurous and take the PPP Unit where it should not be. It should be where it is accessible because I can easily go to Hon. Mutati’s office without an appointment. We recently learnt that one chief from the Eastern Province was denied access to State House four times. What if he had ideas about PPP if it is a true noble idea that they work in Zambia?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, if a chief of a big tribe can fail to access State House, what about me a small human being? It should move forthwith and should not be a club affair. That is why Hon. Kambwili was emphatic about the personalities who work at State House. The people who provide the links to the President must also be above reproach. The man who was advising Dr Kenneth Kaunda about the economy was Mark Chona and many people do not even know about this. Today, everyone runs all over the show …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … and on e wonders where authority stands. When the centre fails to hold, things fall apart. It is the same story with the Road Development Agency (RDA) and the act of moving the PPP Unit was as a result of a bad habit. At the expense of injuring the dead, I will still say it because that is my nature. The first mistake that the PF Government made when they came into power was to move the RDA to State House because.

Sir, I will not talk about procurement because I do not know whether they procure at State House or not. However, the talk about corruption is related to PPP and it is not even providing a good deal. Hon. Chitotela and my elder brother Hon. Mutati said that no single ngwee from the Government will be used to construct the Ndola Road. Let us look at the flip side of the coin because we, the Zambians, will still pay for its construction when China Jiangxi Ltd starts collecting toll gate fees. At the rate of investment, they will demand for their money and will want to recover the US$3.7 billion within a certain space of time. It goes without saying that our children and grandchildren will pay through their noses for the construction of that road, whose deal was signed at State House. Therefore, they should remove the agency from State House so that we can share ideas and collectively agree on the best way to develop the country. Do not be the Alpha and Omega because human beings come and go. It is only institutions that remain.

Mr Chairperson, in the third republic, the late President Fredrick Chiluba’s former Presidential Aide got into trouble to the extent of serving a jail term and that is a fact. This is the only country that actually glorifies convicts or people who are thieves. They may have a small paper and think they can traumatise everyone because they are protected by State House.

Ms Mulenga: Question!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, every dog has got its day and once beaten twice shy. However, some dog may have two days. You cannot wake up every day and slander people and be protected by State House. You cannot do that. The people at State House must arise above reproach because they control everything and the police. However, because of the behaviour of the characters at State House, the police are also becoming adventurous. They are breaking the law left, right and centre, and think that this country belongs to them alone.

Hon. Mutati, as we undertake the exercise of approving the Budget, we will not be shy to tell you things that we think will help the country. We will not abuse you at all. You may not like the things that you will hear, but I want to guarantee you from where I stand that we shall say things no matter how bad they sound because that is our job. Help your boss to remove the RDA and PPP Unit from State House if he wants to have a peace of mind. We will not stop to hold you accountable and in Tonga we say, ‘jata neiluma’. This means that even if it bites, just hold, and it is our job to hold you accountable. You will not use any tactics to intimidate us or use flamboyant words like the hon. Minister of Energy did when he failed to answer a question. Hon. Kambwili said that it will be punch for punch. With us, it will be ‘jata neiluma’ and we will hold you accountable until you …

Mr Mutale: Meaning what?

Mr Nkombo: Holding you accountable. There is no other English word I can use, Sir, but you know we have different levels. Water finds its own level.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: This is what it means. If I say that we will hold you accountable, someone should not ask me what it means. It only goes to show that they have not understood. There are schools all over that you can go and enroll into. Many people have enrolled to up their game academically.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue with your debate, hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Mr Nkombo: I am actually done, Mr Chairperson, and I want to thank you.

However, our colleagues on the right-hand side must know that we come with open arms. They must also understand that governing people is no holiday because we are going to hold you accountable to everything that you do, ...

Mr Livune: Yes!

Mr Nkombo: …starting with State House.

In my view, the money that you have allocated, Madam Vice-President, is actually very little. However, there is money hidden somewhere in the PPP, RDA and other things that we do not know about. Hon. Mutati, stop, henceforth, signing loan agreements from State House. Sign them at your office. Bilateral and multilateral agreements to do with money should be signed at your office, where all Zambians will be able to see what you are doing.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Mr Chairperson, I want to thank you sincerely for the opportunity to support the estimates of expenditure for State House. My very brief support anchors on the state of infrastructure at State House.

Mr Chairperson, State House houses presidents. As my elder brother, Hon. Garry Nkombo rightly put it, human beings come and go, but this house is for the nation. Therefore, we need to make sure that we improve it in order to improve the image of the country.

Mr Chairperson, every time a head of state visits Zambia, we know that their destination, at some point, is State House to meet their counterpart. However, the state of infrastructure at State House is not very motivating. I am sure that every sitting president feels bad to be accommodated in such a place, especially when they visit other heads of state around the world.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Finance should consider upgrading State House. Let us not view State House as President Lungu’s. President Lungu will leave that house. This is our house as a Zambian people. In fact, this money that has been earmarked for State House has to support operations, maintenance and security around State House. We need to make sure that we appropriate sufficient resources to this office so that it is able to do all these things.

I think that politics sometimes make us say things that we would otherwise not say. However, I am very hopeful that we are going to think, as a nation, that it is necessary to upgrade State House.

Mr Chairperson, I have visited State House on a number of occasions. In fact, I have another invite, which I think every hon. Member here has received and which brings me to accessibility to State House. Every hon. Member in here has been invited and when we get there, you will agree with me that the house requires upgrading.

President Banda wanted to build a new State House. If you have not been there before, you may not understand what I am talking about. Those that go there will understand that perhaps President Banda meant well. Therefore, as a representative of the Zambian people, I would say that it is necessary to begin considering upgrading infrastructure at State House or even thinking of another more dignified place befitting a head of state.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, first of all, may I begin by commenting on what the previous speaker said. We need to upgrade State House or build a new one.

Sir, at the moment, this is not a priority …

Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: … because there are many projects that are pending. For instance, we have damaged bridges and, therefore, people will not be able to move and children will not be able to go to school. Therefore, the rehabilitation of State House is not a priority for now. All those who are emphasising that we should upgrade State House are misplaced in their thinking.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, can you withdraw that statement.

Mr Kamboni: Sir, I wish to withdraw and replace it with building a new State House is not a priority at the moment because there are more pressing issues that we should attend to and not State House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: Therefore, this issue should not be used by some people for them to be recognised.

Mr Chairperson, a country that is run by a leader without a vision perishes. I want to define what State House is. State House means that it is a House for the whole country and not only for a section of individuals. Therefore, the Office of the President is the highest office in the country with supposedly, the best man/women of the country. He/she should be a man of integrity, morally upright, a good example to the country, a law abiding citizen, intelligent with right group of men and women to take the country forward. He must have the whole country at heart and not only concentrating on one province or where he comes from or his party cadres.

Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: Sir, the purpose of State House is to make people’s lives better and not worse. It is supposed to make everyone hopeful and expect that the good decisions, which will be made, will benefit the whole country.

Mr Chairperson, let us look at the expenditure of State House. I want to state that the presidential trips are too much.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: Sir, I wish that one day the hon. Minister of Finance or someone else from the Government will come and tell us how much this country has so far spent on the presidential trips from the time this Government came into power vis-à-vis, the current Republican President.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Kamboni: Mr Chairperson, so far, the current Republican President has made more forty-nine trips. To be precise, it should be between fifty and fifty-one. Every time the Republican President travels, the cost is colossal.

Dr Chibanda: So what?

Mr Kamboni: Sir, we are talking about money issues. Therefore, we need to know where the money goes to. Making fifty trips in less than two years is too much.

Mr Chairperson, the late President, Mr Micheal Chilufya Sata had only five trips in a longer period than the current Republican President. Therefore, if he has already made fifty trips in less than two years, it means that he is actually the highest in the whole region. He is the most travelled President in the whole region.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: Therefore, whether you like it or not, all the Zambian people are concerned about how their money is being spent.

Interruptions

Mr Kamboni: The head of state is supposed to be prudent when it comes to expenses. He must look at the country at heart. Some of the trips that he undertakes can be delegated to hon. Ministers because when an hon. minister travels, it is not as expensive as when the Republican President travels. Therefore, we need to take this issue very seriously because this is the same Government that has failed to build in Nalubumba, where I come from. I have been talking about the same bridge for ten months now. Their response has always been that they do not have resources, but they have money to undertake both necessary and unnecessary trips all over the world.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: Mr Chairperson, yes, the money for these trips comes from the National Budget and this is what we are talking about now. Those who do not know should go and check the Yellow Book. They will be very shocked how much money is being spent on trips by the President. We must take such issues very seriously.

Mr Ngulube: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Ngulube, I will not allow you to raise a point of order. This is because when I look at my list, you are the next one to debate. So just take notes. You will have all the opportunity to respond to what the hon. Member is saying.

Mr Kamboni: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much. However, I wish you would have allowed him to raise a point of order because I would have defended myself.

Mr Chairperson, as we approve the National Budget, we have to look at how money is spent. The last time I debated the Budget, I remember asking the hon. Minister of Finance how much money is spent on fighting corruption. I have said that State House or the Presidency should be an office of integrity, moral uprightness and one which follows the rule of law. The President is the one who dispenses discipline among members of his crew, which is the Executive.

Mr Chairperson, as the previous speaker said, it was mentioned here that most hon. Ministers had huge bank accounts and were very corrupt, but none of them have been fired. At the moment, we are very concerned with State House because it is not dispensing its duty properly. We have had a lot of suspicions of corruption. Apart from that, it has been mentioned right in this House that some hon. Ministers had received three cars as bribes, but they have not been suspended or fired.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: A lot of corrupt individuals are not being fired. This has caused us a lot of worry. Why should we give State House so much money when it is failing to take action on those who are wrongdoers?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: If we were a country where rules are followed, we would have started with resolving the issue of the tender for the fire engines. The fact that this tender was given to a company that was not the highest bidder and was not even three years in existence was enough to take action. If this happened during the time of the late President Levy Mwanawasa, we would have seen four or five hon. Ministers suspended or fired by now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: Therefore, my biggest question is; why is it that State House or the Presidency is failing to discipline members of the crew who are erring? They are visibly corrupt that even the blind can see that they are corrupt? Why is the Government saying they are not corrupt? The answer is simple. This is why as a leader you must have integrity. If I fail to discipline my children over beer drinking, it means I also over drink. If I go back home on a wheelbarrow from a drinking spree and my son does the same, it will be very difficult for me to discipline him. My point is that what is happening at State House is bad. It has failed to dispense discipline to erring hon. Ministers because it is also involved in corruption.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kamboni: Mr Chairperson, State House has divided the country a lot. It is using divide and rule tactics. In 1991, Zambia became a democratic state, which meant every citizen had a right to vote for whoever he/she wanted. If I wanted, I would even vote for Mr Muliokela. That is my choice. However, what is happening currently in the country is that those who do not vote for the Ruling Party are punished and this is encouraged by State House. This is not supposed to be the case because every citizen has a right to vote for whoever he/she wants, just like we choose who to marry or what car to buy. If I bought a Mercedes Benz, a person who bought a Toyota cannot say I should be punished.

Mr Chairperson, we want State House to champion the fact that all Zambians are equal and must be treated equally. State House should be in the forefront to make sure that all parts of the country get equal shares of the cake in terms of development. The Government should not be taking development to just one area and when others ask, they are told that this is because of the way they voted.

Mr Chairperson, one hon. Minister on the Floor of this august House and said hon. Members of Parliament come here to criticise the Executive for being corruption and yet, in the corridors, they ask for development for their constituencies. He even said they will not give us this development as if we are begging for money that belongs to the Patriotic Front (PF). We are not asking for personal money from hon. Ministers here. We are asking for money that comes from taxpayers, who are the citizens of this country. Even in the Constitution, it is stated that each …

Hon. PF Members: Order!

Mr Kamboni: You are not charge.

Mr Chairperson, we have the budget here for State House and one of the …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

___________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MADAM FIRST DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

____________

The House adjourned at 1257 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 25^th October, 2017.

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