DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 28th June, 2013

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an outline of the business it will consider next week. Since Tuesday is a holiday, the Business of the House will begin on Wednesday, 3rd July, 2013, and will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will any. The House will then consider Privates Members’ Motions, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider a Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee of National Security and Foreign Affairs. 

Sir, on Thursday, 4th July, 2013, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Education, Science and Technology.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 5th July, 2013, the Business of the House will commence with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then adopt a Motion to adopt the Report on the Committee of Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Matters and Child Affairs. After that, the House will deal with any business that may be outstanding.

I thank you, Sir.

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

THE CONTROL OF IN-COUNTRY MOVEMENTS OF IMPORTED MEAT AND MEAT PRODUCTS

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, I would like to express my gratitude for availing me this opportunity to address this honorable House on the movement of meat and meat products in Zambia, with specific reference to the Zambeef case.

Sir, I shall briefly answer the following questions:

(i)what is the legal framework under which we are operating;
(ii)what was the cause of events;
(iii)what action did we take; and
(iv)what is the way forward.

Mr Speaker, this House may wish to note that the movement of meat and meat products in the country is regulated under the Public Health Act Cap. 295 of the Laws of Zambia, the Meat Abattoir and Butchery Regulations, the Abattoir and Transport of Meat Regulations and the Food and Drugs Act, Cap 303.

Sir, I further wish to state that these pieces of legislation seek to protect the public against health hazards and fraud in the sale and use of food that may cause food-borne illnesses or injuries. A food-borne hazard is a physical, chemical and biological object in food or a drink that can cause injury or illness to the human body. Most of these hazards are things that you cannot see, smell or taste, thereby making the consumers vulnerable to risks associated with the consumption of such. This House may further wish to note that the Animal Health Act, 2010 mandates the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to issue importation permits with conditions as stated under it, while inland conditions are regulated under the Public Health Act which falls within the mandate of the Ministry of Health and with powers to delegate the functions to local authorities.

Mr Speaker, on 26th March, 2013, my ministry received a letter from Zambeef complaining of the unwarranted disruption of business in its butcheries. Its complaint followed inspections by environmental health officers on Zambeef premises and products. Following this complaint, a multi-ministerial technical working group constituting officers from the Ministry of Health, Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, Ministry of Local Government and Housing, Lusaka City Council, Consumer Competition Protection Commission (CCPC) and the Zambia Bureau of Standards was constituted. The aim of the committee was to review the Zambeef case so as to enable my ministry to respond to the issues raised in the letter from the company, accordingly.

Sir, I would like to enlighten this honorable House that, so far, the constituted committee has had meetings with Zambeef and made the following observations:

(i)the Public Health Act mandates the environmental health inspectors to conduct inspections and take samples for analysis of any food or articles in their regular course of duty or when a complaint is received from the public;

(ii)the health inspectors in Ndola, Chingola, Mufulira, Luanshya, Lusaka and Chongwe carried out food safety control functions and established that there were a lot of violations in the handling of meat and meat products on the Zambian market.
(iii)    further, the CCPC had brought to the ministry’s attention many complaints from members of the public on decomposed meat and meat products, against the requirements of the Food and Dugs Act. 

Mr Speaker, in monitoring compliance to standards in accordance with the laws, the environmental health officers visited among many other premises, Zambeef outlets during their routine inspections. This was done for the purposes of premise and food inspections, with a view to ascertain compliance with the law. 

During these inspections, the following were the relevant findings:

(i)on the sampled meat products, laboratory analysis results indicated the presence of the Aromatic Aldehyde chemical and microbial contamination; and 

(ii)meat parts did not have the inspection incisions and were not marked as “passed fit for human consumption”, as per the requirement of the public health regulations (Meat Abattoir and Butcheries Regulations and the Abattoir and Transport of Meat Regulations). 

Mr Speaker, the omission of incisions indicates that the consignment was not declared to the local authorities for the purposes of inspection and branding when it was brought into the concerned districts. 

Further, the storage methods were observed not to be adequate as they allowed for cross contamination, especially on the packages that were torn. The fact that there were no parts attached to the carcasses raised a concern regarding the exact animal of origin of the parts, whether of a cow or otherwise. 

To this effect, the first consignment was seized and samples collected and submitted to the veterinary laboratory for chemical analysis in order to ascertain whether the animal parts were of bovine origin or otherwise. The results have since been received and indicated that the meat parts were of a cow. 

However, samples taken from the Copperbelt and Lusaka provinces for chemical analysis have indicated that items for several outlets contained microbial contamination and Aromatic Aldehyde. Aldehydes are part of a functional group found in many preservatives commonly used for preserving tissues and not for human consumption. There are several types of aldehydes. Some are hazardous and dangerous with the potential to cause health problems. The common and very dangerous are Benzaldehyde and Formaldehyde, which may be wrongly used in some foods for human consumption. Precautionary measures had to be taken to see which one is present in the meat which has been quarantined. 

Noting that the expiry dates for fresh meat products in question were extremely long, stretching to June 2014, the tests were conducted in order to verify the preservatives used. Normally, internal organs of cattle and other animals usually last for an average period of six months, at less than negative temperatures of 35 or less than 4 degrees celsius in cold blast freezers. 

Mr Speaker, my ministry has the responsibility of protecting public health in Zambia and has since resolved to subject all meat products to laboratory analysis which also includes other food articles from farm to folk. My ministry held consultations with Zambeef management representatives upon receipt of their complaint, and these have been informed that the authorised officers acted within their mandate provided by the Public Health Act, Cap 295 of the Laws of Zambia. 

Mr Speaker, this House may wish to know that the issuance of an importation permit is not a guarantee that products will not be subjected to inspections upon arrival, but could be used as a guiding document by the importer to communicate to the exporting country on the Zambian legal requirements for food articles. Among many other issues, it clears questions on the reputation of the exporting country. 

Mr Speaker, some of the meat which was quarantined has been tampered with and other parts have since disappeared from where they were kept at respective premises. Therefore, my ministry will take legal action against the company concerned in the districts were the seizure was effected, upon conclusion of the investigations. 

Interruptions

Dr Kasonde: I am not naming any company because investigations are ongoing. 

Further, it has been decided that all meat and meat products imported be examined and samples be procured from any such container entering Zambia. 

Mr Speaker, the following actions and precautions have been taken: 

(i)samples of the meat products in question have been submitted for quantitative analysis to the Regional Food Safety Laboratories in South Africa where we have a  Centerband Only Detection of  Exchange (CODEX) reference laboratory to ascertain the levels of contamination of the chemicals in the products;

(ii) the items under seizure remain seized;

(iii)Zambeef has voluntarily removed all viscera parts from the market and quarantined them;

(iv)all products in transit are to be allowed in the country, but to be quarantined for analysis;

(v)further quality assurance testing on a batch-to-batch basis to be done and the cost of these tests to be incurred by Zambeef; 

(vi)Zambeef needs to also have a laboratory of its own in order to engage in internal quality controls; 

(vii) Zambeef to announce to the public the voluntary removal of certain products from the markets when the need arises, and in the current instance, it has done so; and

(viii)for the time being, only the Minister of Health will release press statements on this very serious subject regarding Zambeef Plc. 

Mr Speaker, on the basis of further findings, my ministry will take other appropriate actions. For the sake of protecting the public from food-borne hazards, my ministry is in the process of drafting a Statutory Instrument (SI) to guide the in-country movement of meat and meat products. 

Finally, my ministry will work closely with the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock and other relevant ministries in order to strengthen and harmonise their operations for the purposes of safeguarding public health. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister. 

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether, in the interest of public health, the hon. Minister will not consider constituting a team of experts to thoroughly investigate the origin of the products which are sold by Zambeef. While that investigation is taking place, would the hon. Minister not consider closing the Zambeef outlets so that when the report on the investigations is out, the public can be informed and then appropriate action taken?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Mafinga for raising a very important issue regarding the need for an expert revision of the current situation. Indeed, this will be done because we have found evidence of contamination. We need to find out whether this contamination was at the time of entry in the outlet or not. At the moment, we do not know the point at which the contamination occurred. We have, therefore, demanded of our experts, who are going to carry out this investigation, to ensure that they provide expert opinion on exactly where the contamination might have been sourced. I do agree with the hon. Member that we should follow a scientific route.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Health for the statement he has issued to this House and the nation at large. I would like to find out what measures the ministry is putting in place to ensure that the health of Zambians is protected vis-a-vis the mushrooming of various organisations that are producing goods, drinks and foodstuffs, most of which are not examined before they are allowed to be sold on the market. We have noted that there are so many drinks, some of them pink, yellow and orange, among others on the market. Some of these drinks have been said to be harmful to the health of Zambians and yet no measures have been taken to halt their production. As the Government is taking this measure regarding the Zambeef imported meats, what other measures is it taking to ensure that the lives of Zambians are protected?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, yes it is true that there are a number of products that have been sold for the purpose of consumption and that their origins may be doubtful. That is why we have in place the legislative framework, which mandates the Ministry of Health, through the local government agencies, health inspectors and environmental officers, to sample from time to time whatever is on the market. It is through this legislation that we are able to assure hon. Members and the public that their health is being protected. If there have been deficiencies, those would be in the application of the law and not the lack of it. We believe that a situation such as the one we have experienced will be a stimulus for us to ensure that our staff continue to be as conscientious as they should be in protecting the health of our people.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Health for an elaborate statement. The hon. Minister was very clear in the fact that there was some microbial contamination and presence of what he called aromatic aldehydes or preservatives in the meat products in question. I would like to know whether, when carrying out these tests, his ministry went as far as determining whether these meat products contained traces of genetically modified organisms (GMOs). What is the Government’s policy regarding GMO foods?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to, again, clarify that the two contaminations, chemical and microbial, are different. Tests to check for both types of contamination are routinely made whenever a product is for sale. We must be assured that there is no contamination of any type before the sale of any product takes place. It does not matter whether the contamination is genetically modified or not. It should just not be there. That is where we stand.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me an opportunity to ask the hon. Minister of Health a question regarding this very sad state of affairs, which can best be described as the Zambeef “food gate” scandal.

Sir, the hon. Minister has indicated that the results indicated the presence of Aromatic Aldehyde, and gone on to explain what type of chemical it is. In general terms, could you be specific and tell us what type of Aromatic Aldehyde was found in this food sample. There has been mention that, in fact, it could have been Formaldehyde which is used in embalming corpses. To just say that aromatic aldehydes were found in the samples is not enough. Secondly, which microbial agents were found in the samples? The Zambians, quite clearly, have been consuming these meat products for sometime without knowing. What deleterious effects have we been exposed to?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that question and wish to state that his appreciation of what Formaldehyde is used for shows that he went to a very good medical school.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Sir, it is customary in medical school for those cadavers that are used for training to be preserved using Formaldehyde, and so, he and I, have a common appreciation of the dangers of the chemical. However, I did mention in my statement that the reason for our going for further analysis was to establish which type of aldehyde was found in the samples. I agree with Hon. Dr Kalila that to say aldehydes were present is correct because they were present, but, is not sufficient ground to take action. We have to establish which type of aldehydes were present and which of these are dangerous. I did go as far as mentioning the two particular ones that are dangerous. 

The same goes for microbial elements. What we are saying is that they should not be in these food products. So it is wrong from the beginning. We then go on to the next step, which is to establish which ones they are. Again I have assured the hon. Member that that is what we are investigating. However, that does not detract anything from the fact that the said substances should not have been in the samples in the first place.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister of Health consider extending these investigations to other companies and food outlets considering that, in the past, there have also been reports that even meat and fish products which are found in ordinary markets like Soweto also contain aromatic aldehydes? 

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member raises an important question which allows me to, again, clarify a certain issue. In previous statements and in my statement of today, I emphasised the need for us in the Public Service not to begin by identifying the company involved in the investigation and say that it is a bad or good one. I know that in the case of Zambeef, the Chief Executive Officer has been described unfortunately by some people as the Chief Embalmment Officer?

Laughter{mospagebreak}

Dr Kasonde: I do not share that view. I share the view that the starting point is the substance that we have found. Let us analyse the samples carefully. It does not matter where the samples are taken from. Whether they come from the market or from the street, the duty of our inspectors is to get those tests done on samples and then ensure that whatever the origin, corporate or otherwise, does not deter action on preventing diseases and illnesses to our people. 

   We must continue to intensify the tests in certain areas. I agree that marketeers and other people have been suspected of having been using contaminating substances for the purpose of preserving the meat which they sale. These are allegations which should be investigated by, first and foremost, the laboratory testing of some samples and secondly, the identification of who the perpetrators are.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that statement though my earlier question has been overtaken by events. The hon. Minister in his statement indicated that only his ministry or himself will be issuing statements on this issue. What guarantee is there that this will take place going by the past inconsistencies of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government whereby one hon. Minister will claim to be the only one who is going to be issuing statements on a particular matter, but you find later on, other hon. Ministers continuing to  issue statements on the same subject?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for entering into the domain of the `management of government …

Laughter 

Dr Kasonde: … in which I have no doubt he has expertise which we can benefit from. As a way of clarifying my statement, I wish to state that I shall make, as Minister of Health, statements as a follow up to this unfortunate incident. In the event, however, that within the Government, it is seen as expedient for somebody else to make a statement, such as our spokesperson, the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting, let it not be taken to be mismanagement. Let it be understood to be the new and efficient ways of the new Government of the PF.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Let it also be taken as an example of good practice.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, if I recall correctly, on one of the 1900 hours news bulletins, the hon. Minister categorically stated that the beef which was being imported had a chemical which, in the long run, can cause cancer. Did he issue that statement prematurely or that is the truth?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for raising that very important point and for generating light as opposed to heat.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Let us recall my statement of today in which I said that as soon as aldehydes were identified, that was time for action. It was not necessary to wait until all the other investigation processes were completed. That is why the meat was quarantined. I do not think  that we should have proceeded in any other manner.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Sir, I wish to thank you for having accorded us this opportunity to ask questions regarding this matter. One would assume that the ministry has a team that does periodical inspections. When was the last inspection done and were all the beef products from Zambeef cleared? Secondly, is there a new entrant in the beef market space who could be part of the scheme to expose Zambeef?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has identified some of the concerns that I also have about who might be the new entrant into this arena who might be confusing things. However, in the case of what we do on a routine basis, it is not that he has guessed it. That is what I said. It only confirms that he heard what I was saying that inspections are part and parcel of our routine work of protecting Zambians. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, obviously the hon. Minister’s statement is appreciated. Zambeef is in business and there are people employed by the company. How long are these investigations going to take?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I cannot put a timetable on the duration of these investigations. I think the principle we should adopt is that the health of our people is more important than anything else. I think we should allow everything that can be done to be done. Of course, we cannot forget that our colleagues in these companies are in business in which we are interested in as consumers and Government. Therefore, we shall try to conclude these investigations in the shortest possible time. However, we cannot direct that the investigations follow a fixed timetable

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister made it clear that during the course of investigations, some of the quarantined samples actually went missing. After Zambeef withdrew all the suspected products from the shelves, under whose custody were they?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I said that in one district, the meat that had been quarantined disappeared. Therefore, this raises two implications. The first one is that I have no idea where it disappeared to. The second is that that particular district now potentially requires us to enter into some legal action. When the investigation has been completed and has identified who removed the meat from the place where it was quarantined, that person or corporate entity will face legal action. That is the way we are proceeding.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, as per the provisions of the Public Health Act, how does the hon. Minister ensure that inspections are actually carried out routinely rather than as a matter of chance?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, yes, it is important for instructions to be carried out. If they are not carried out, the effect is to damage the very policy upon which they were based. It is, therefore, important for my ministry to ensure that these inspections are carried out at all times. The supervisory system is a well-known one. We have officers who serve under certain supervisors. We also have supervisors who serve under senior management in my ministry who are, indeed, under the supervision of this very House. There is a very clear chain of supervision which should ensure that what we have demanded should be carried out. There will, from time to time, be weaknesses in that system, but I would request that all the relevant stakeholders are involved, including the hon. Member, to ensure that any breach of this established system of control is made known to us for action to be taken.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the Zambeef products, I may hasten to say, are consumed by maybe 1 or 2 per cent of the population of Zambia because, in the first instance, most people cannot afford to buy meat. The rest of the population eats groundnuts, vegetables and kapenta.

Mr Mwiimbu: And salt! 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, if you go to markets, you will find that most of the products there are swamped with flies and all sorts of contaminants. It is as a result of this that year in, year out, including last year, we have outbreaks of cholera and people die. Since the virtues of public health which I understand are about targeting the majority rather than the minority, is the ministry, in this particular case, caring more for the 1 per cent which is affluent and doing nothing about the majority of the people who die from Cholera year in, year out?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I think that the premise on which we should build our case should be to establish how the notion came to the hon. Member’s mind that the ministry was doing nothing about kapenta and other products. At no point in my address did I discuss what we were doing about vinkubala.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: I only discussed the case at hand, namely the Zambeef one.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Dr Kasonde: I do not see the need for me to continue discussing other products which are not part of the statement. Mr Speaker, if I am mistaken, I remain to be guided.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, the range of compounds being talked about are made of carbons, hydrogens and oxygens. These are elements that we consume everyday in other types of foods. I would like to know at what temperature these compounds break up? This Zambeef issue has created a very big problem and yet the components I have referred to are part of what we consume every day.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, this House has, reason to be proud of the extent of scientific knowledge and expertise which it has as shown by the question by the hon. Member. The temperatures are an important part of what we are measuring. However, I said that normally, the products that we were examining would have been brought in at a temperature as low as minus 34 degrees celsius. When you come from there to four degrees celsius, you are possibly on safe ground. However, once you come to a place warmer than that, you are at high risk. How can we tell that? Decomposition usually occurs at any higher temperature and our guidelines are clear on that. 

Sir, I do not think that I can be exhaustive on the science of melting or decomposition. However, we have guidelines and, therefore, know that it is because there is no availability of the suitable level of temperature in a lot of outlets that these problems are arising. What is at the centre is the inability to preserve meat at the appropriate temperature. Ultimately, it does not matter what the cause was, we just do not want to put the lives of our people at risk.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mumba (Mambilima): Mr Speaker, from the statement by the hon. Minister, it looks like the results done so far are qualitative. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the laboratories under his ministry have the capacity to carry out quantitative tests and if so, when such results will be availed to the House.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, in fact, the current results are also quantitative. The act of finding the level at which aldehydes are problematic is quantitative in nature. However, I said that …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

May I have order on the left.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, because we wanted a closer analysis of the quantities of the various components of the aldehydes, we have sent samples to our colleagues in South Africa who have the ability to do that. The important things are that we are looking for the quantitative analysis of these aldehydes and that irrespective of the quantity, there should be a case against anybody who brought about this contamination.

I thank you, Sir.

THE ALLEGED HARASSMENT OF LUBANSENSHI CONSTITUENCY MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT ON 5TH JUNE, 2013

The Minister of Justice and Acting Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kabimba, SC.): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for allowing me to deliver a ministerial statement to this August House, in my capacity as the Acting hon. Minister of Home Affairs, with respect to the point of order raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubasenshi. 

Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that all hon. Members of Parliament are free to visit their constituencies at any given time. Therefore, I wish to inform the House that it is not true that the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi was harassed by the local police command when he went to tour his constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament visited his constituency on the 5th of June, 2013, and held various meetings. However, when the local police command approached him to advise him on the need to inform it whenever he was touring his constituency, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: … he reacted very angrily and lashed out at the police officers and proceeded with his meetings.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, when the hon. Members of Parliament decide to hold public meetings, we have always advised them to give notice to the local police command …

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: … on their intentions to do so in accordance with the provisions of the Public Order Act.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister for Justice, just pause for a moment. Hon. Members, the hon. Minister is giving a statement which will be followed by questions. That is the usual way. There is no other way he can deliver the statement if you drown him. Therefore, practice some patience.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, this is intended as a precautionary measure in case the security and safety of the hon. Members of Parliament is compromised during the meetings.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, in this regard, we are aware of the complaint by the hon. Member of Parliament regarding the conduct of the police in Luwingu. Hence, the provincial police command has decided to use police officers from Kasama to ensure that the hon. Member of Parliament does not use his perceived differences with the local police as an excuse for not going back to his contingency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is renowned for being unco-operative with the police in Luwingu. They have complained about the lack of courtesy to them by the hon. Member of Parliament.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, we wish to advise the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi and other hon. Members of Parliament that they need the local police command as well as the district administration for them to do their work easily in their constituencies.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, I salute you for giving me this opportunity …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, the Members’ Handbook, 2006 Edition, states that an interested party cannot stand on the Floor of the debating Chamber and pose a question. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi in order to raise a point of order when he is an interested party? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member is in order and, please, consult the same handbook further.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Member: Baza yamba kukuchaya ba Mwaliteta.

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I am taken aback because the hon. Minister came here to tell total lies on the Floor of the House.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, I indicated that this is an occasion to clarify. If there is nothing to clarify, I suggest that you do not proceed. This is not an opportunity for you to engage in dialogue or to challenge the statement. You may consider other avenues for that, but not this one. If you have no point to clarify, please, allow your colleagues to proceed.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to indicate why he has decided to mislead this House and the nation at large through the answers that he has given.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, everything I stated in the ministerial statement is factual.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the reason that the hon. Minister gave for the police to follow the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi around is that it was for his own protection. Why were the police following and harassing him if he did not need their protection?

Laughter

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, my statement was very clear. I said that the police had to take precautionary measures just in case the security of the hon. Member of Parliament became compromised. It is the duty of the police to do so.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, this ministerial statement was as a result of a point of order I raised on the Floor of this House.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Are you trying to make a point of order or a clarification?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, it is a prelude to the question I want to pose. Mr Speaker, you are the custodian of our rights. An assurance was given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs on the Floor of this House that the hon. Members of Parliament would not be harassed in their various constituencies. I would like to find out why, despite the assurance given to you, the nation and this House, the hon. Members of Parliament are continuously being harassed in their constituencies by the police under the instruction of the Government.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the point of order was very specific. I think it was in the respect of the incident involving the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi, and the ministerial statement is targeted at it. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Why!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Not why. We are not running a non-government organisational (NGO). We are running a country. Therefore, the issue of security is paramount, not only for the hon. Members of Parliament, but also for the constituents.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I must admit that your statement was not only hollow, but also very provocative …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Can you withdraw that statement.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I withdraw that statement.

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker:  Order!

If this trend continues, I will curtail further questions.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Yes. This is a point of clarification. You must all bear in mind what I have already said. I should not repeat myself. I should not be interjecting at every turn and twist because it is not efficient for our business. So, if you have got a point of clarification on the statement, rise up and I will give you an opportunity. However, if the idea is to challenge and ridicule, I am afraid, I will not permit that.

Can the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, is it mandatory for us to inform the police before meeting our constituents?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, it is mandatory for the Government to provide security to every citizen.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the PF Government has found it fit to practice political ostracism.

Mr Kabimba: Mr Speaker, that is a completely new question.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, the police usually rely on intelligence information when doing their work. Normally, there has to be a trigger event for the police to offer protection to a person who has not asked for it. Was there any trigger event that made the police to storm the hon. Member’s meeting and demand to protect him when he did not ask for that protection?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I know of no case where police are invited to a wedding in order to protect citizens. The issue of security is the prerogative of the police. Where they believe that there could be a security breach or that it may be compromised in respect of any citizen, an hon. Member of Parliament or otherwise, they have the right to act accordingly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said the hon. Member is known for being unco-operative with the police. I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister has taken that as gospel truth or has taken it upon himself to talk to the hon. Member concerned in order to arrive at a reasonable conclusion.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I have said in my statement that the police command has complained to the ministry about the hon. Member’s negative attitude and unco-operativeness.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, may I know whether hon. Members of Parliament and other people are supposed to notify the police when they want to go and worship, weekly. In May, 2013, more than thirty police officers were sent to Nakatala were a 1,000 people were worshipping.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I want to avoid being diverted from what was contained in the point of order. The point of order on the Floor of the House is in respect to the incident involving the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions {mospagebreak}

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, one of the three functions of an hon. Member of Parliament, other than legislating and providing the oversight role on the Executive, is representation. In representing one’s constituency, there has to be close contact between the hon. Member and groups of people whom he or she represents. Can the hon. Minister inform me whether, in my performing the duty of representation for the people of Mazabuka Central Constituency, I must, at every given stage, go to Mazabuka Central Police to tell the policemen where I am going and who I am going to meet? This, to me, is against my inherent human right of freedom of assembly. In performing my duty as a representative, I would like to know whether it is now mandatory for me to inform the police exactly who I shall meet and where I am going to meet them.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, we are dealing with a law of relativity. For example, if the hon. Member of Parliament is going to meet his uncle, who is a member of his party, certainly, that meeting does not require the intervention of the police. So, I think it is a question of a judicious judgment on the part of both the hon. Member of Parliament and the police command in the area. Both parties should ensure that the security of the constituents is not compromised.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I would like to know the statistics regarding the frequency of hon. Members of Parliament complaining to the police that in the course of visiting their constituencies, they were harassed and threatened such that they have required protection from the police. Can I know the statistics of the frequency of such complaints.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, that is totally a new question.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Member: Question!

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that hon. Members of Parliament need to inform the police command whenever they want to interact with their constituents. Is the hon. Minister indicating to this august House that if the police command is not informed, hon. Members should never at all, interact with their constituents? Is it the policy of the PF Government that from now onwards, hon. Members of Parliament risk being harassed and arrested on account of their not informing the police on their meeting their constituents?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, my statement was short and straightforward. I said that these matters fall within the provisions of the Public Order Act. It is up to the hon. Members of Parliament and the police to determine the environment that requires the protection of the hon. Members of Parliament and the citizens of that area.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister indicate which law the Government is using to harass hon. Members of Parliament when they are in their constituencies.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, there is no law that has ever been enacted by this House to harass anybody.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that we should be informing the police on our interactions with constituents so that they provide us with security. Hon. Nkombo rushed to Livingstone Police Station where he was assaulted by Hon. Mwaliteta.

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi: What security can be provided to us if an hon. Member of Parliament can be assaulted within a police station?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, apart from that being a new question, I thought that Hon. Nkombo was strong enough to defend himself.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, people can never defend themselves in a cell.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, in relation to the Lubansenshi incident, the hon. Minister has stated that the Luwingu police officers are not in good books with the hon. Member of Parliament from the area, hence, they would have to be bringing in some officers from Kasama whenever Hon. Mucheleka needs protection. Is the hon. Minister considering transferring those who are in good terms with the hon. Member of Parliament so that we do not have the police officers from Kasama moving to Luwingu whenever the hon. Member of Parliament is in his constituency?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, this is a very sad situation. What I can only do is to appeal to our colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi, to co-operate with the police command in Luwingu so that the perception that he does not want to do so is destroyed. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events. 

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, what is the difference between what your Government is doing now and what happens in a police state?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the difference is that Zambia is not a police state.

I thank you, Sir.

Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I have been an hon. Member of Parliament for ten years. In that time, I was privileged to have been a very good hon. Minister of Home Affairs on two occasions and …

Interruptions

Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: … once as an hon. Minister for Foreign Affairs.

Mr Speaker, as an hon. Member of Parliament …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I was just settling down when my name was mentioned by the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala who used an incident involving me as an example of how the PF is governing us. In response, the hon. Minister of Justice also mentioned my name, thus I deserve the right to stand on this point of order.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said he thought I was strong enough to defend myself when I was under attack. This is a matter I cannot discuss further because it is before the courts of law. However, since he is the hon. Minister of Justice, could he consider suspending the law on assault so that I can prove to him that I am a strong man?

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

My function in that regard is to simply receive Bills from the hon. Minister of Justice. However, on a serious note, hon. Members, let us refrain from debating ourselves. We are not permitted to do so.

Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, having been hon. Minister of Home Affairs on two occasions …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: …, I wish to state that the hon. Minister’s statement left me worried. The hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi was elected by the people in that constituency. Thus, he must go and interact with them whether they are related to him or not. This august House, under the authority of the Speaker, has given hon. Members the authority to go to their constituencies.

Mr Speaker, is it not proper for the hon. Minister to be able to help this House and the Executive to investigate the matter involving the hon. Member of Parliament who was harassed in Luwingu in order to allow for an independent opinion other than the one which was given to him by the police. If this goes on, we are going to have chaos in the country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Eba Minister.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, you have guided that it would not be right for us to debate ourselves, but the hon. Member of Parliament has still gone ahead to try to convince this House and the country that he had good credentials for an Minister of Home Affairs. That is contrary to your ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

I have already provided guidelines. There is a risk that we will perpetuate what I am trying to counsel against. For the sake of order and keeping in line with our rules, let us refrain from debating ourselves. 

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the point of order that is on the Floor of this House is in respect to the incident involving the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi. I have answered the questions adequately. We are not advocating for chaos, but would like to live in peace, order and unity in this country.

I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Siyafwanda (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, could the Acting hon. Minister of Home Affairs clarify that the 150 hon. Members of Parliament, who are under your custody and were given their mandate by the Zambian people on the 20th of September, 2011, should be turned into criminals being chased by police officers who have never had a taste of running the affairs of a constituency or a ward? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, we have to be serious with the way we are handling this honourable House because some of these policies that we are bringing into this Chamber…

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Member, just pause for a moment. Please, ask your point of clarification, if you have any. This is not an occasion to address the House, no matter how valid your views or sentiments may be. 

Mrs Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, may the Acting hon. Minister of Home Affairs put it on record that from today onwards, your 150 hon. Members of Parliament should seek authority from police officers to address meetings or to visit their constituencies. 

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I cannot put it any better than I have done in the last twenty minutes.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, I have a follow up to the question which was asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West. In the event …

Ms Imenda: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. The hon. Minister gave a statement which is affecting all hon. Members of Parliament. Is he in order to answer arrogantly when he is asked for a clarification? I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Order! My ruling is that I do not discern any arrogance, whatsoever …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: … in the response which has just been given by the hon. Minister. I will give my reason for this. If you go back to the verbatim record, you will find an answer to the question which was asked by Hon. Sayifwanda. I cannot put it clearer than that. The hon. Member may continue.

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I was raising a supplementary question …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order hinging on the privileges of hon. Members of Parliament in this House. I would like to find out whether this House, collectively, is in order to abuse the rights of hon. Members of Parliament by failing to protect their rights as enshrined under Cap 12 of the Laws of Zambia.

Mr Speaker: Your point of order is not clear, hon. Member of Parliament.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am raising a point of order as to whether this House, collectively, is in order not to protect the rights of the hon. Members of Parliament as enshrined under Cap. 12 of the Laws of Zambia. 

Mr Speaker: Order! 

My ruling is that every hon. Member of Parliament left or right has a right to vindicate their privileges. Further, the Office of the Speaker of the National Assembly has the duty of protecting the rights of all hon. Members.

Mr Nkombo interjected.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, you cannot intervene in that fashion. You do not have that privilege.

Laughter

Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, I want to ask a follow-up question to the one which was asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West. In the event that a citizen of Zambia is perceived to be not co-operative with the police, is it not fair to sit down with that particular individual so as to hear the person’s concerns since the Government was elected by the people?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the law obliges every citizen and resident of this country to co-operate with the police. I do not think that is the subject of discussion.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the removal of subsidies is very consistent with the recommendations of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) which are capitalist in nature. Could I say that there is now a change of policy from the socialist tendencies which the Patriotic Front (PF) used when campaigning such as putting more money in people’s pockets. The recommendations that the IMF have made include the capping of people’s salaries. Is this a change of policy by the PF Government?

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, there is no change of policy which is to bring benefits to the poorer people in this country commensurate with what the richer people already have. That has not changed. What has changed is some of the arithmetics which are involved in the process.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the Zambians are very eager to receive a new Constitution. May I know whether Zambians are going for a referendum or not. If they are going for a referendum, has that Government got enough money to carry out that process?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, with your guidance, let me state that the first Question for Oral Answer after this session concerns the Constitution and its future. That Question will be adequately answered by the hon. Minister of Justice.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, I received a report from the management of the Sesheke District Hospital that it is failing to run the institution due to insufficient funding.

Mr Speaker: What is the question?

Laughter

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, why the PF Government is failing to fund the Sesheke District Hospital?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is a mere allegation that I cannot confirm or deny  because I have not had any notice to enable me to consult my colleagues, the hon. Minister of Finance or the hon. Minister of Health. I am afraid, I will respond to Hon. Sianga in the same manner which I respond to similar questions on the Floor of this House. My usual advice to hon. Members is that when there are questions involving details concerning sums of money which are allocated to specific districts, they should give me advance warning so that I can provide adequate answers or forward their questions to the hon. Ministers responsible. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, this Government seems to be very quick in withdrawing and cancelling passports for individuals whose travels it perceives would have a negative effect on the welfare of the nation. On several occasions, President Sata has travelled outside the country and Zambians have felt ashamed of the outcomes.

Interruptions

Mr Mulusa: Is this Government considering withdrawing President Sata’s passport ...

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: … and only issuing him with a travelling document to a specific country so that we can also avoid his disappearances. Presently, you can see him this moment and then not do so the following one. 

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, my amateur legal opinion is that, that question comes remarkably close to defamation of the President. 

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

The Vice-President: I would not engage in that particular form of fun.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ngo’nga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether it is true that people are finding it difficult to access the Zambian Watchdog on line publication these days.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I hope that it is true. This is the first time I am hearing about that issue. It will be a great day for freedom of speech when that scurrilous publication is removed from the air waves.

Laughter

The Vice-President: It randomly insults, accuses people of adultery, prostitution, theft and of being on the point of death, all without any backing or any address to where we can send a writ of libel or arrest somebody for undermining the security of the nation. I would be happy if what has been said by Hon. Ngo’nga is true. However, I cannot confirm if it is because I am not an expert on such matters.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the Zambian Watchdog is the best on-line newspaper that the Zambian people …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … have ever had. It is always factual, anyway.

Mr Speaker, I had the opportunity to read the collective agreement between the Public Service workers and the Government of the Republic of Zambia on the website of the Zambian Watchdog. In that agreement, the Zambian Government had offered a 4 per cent salary increment to the Public Service workers.

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Can His Honour the Vice-President confirm or deny that the Zambian workers have been given a 4 per cent increment contrary to the 200 per cent which the Government is preaching about.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this is an illustration of what I was saying about the damage done to democracy by the Zambian Watchdog. The fact that the stories carried by the Zambian Watchdog can be used as the basis for questions or points of order in this House clearly shows how far its articles can mislead the people. The fact is that the lowest paid civil servants will get a large increment of 200 per cent and the highest paid, like the Secretary to the Cabinet, will be get one of about 1 or 2 per cent. We are harmonising the state of affairs so that we can start moving this country away from a small elite governing a very large number of poor people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President is still on the Floor.

The Vice-President: At the same time, you have to bear in mind the fact that we are constrained by the total level of resources flowing into the Government’s confers and that is what we are addressing. My advice is that, do not even bother to log on to the on-line publication in question even if it is accessible.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I have been a senior civil servant before. In the past, we have always used the police in order to maintain law and order and, indeed, to relocate squatters like in Kampasa and other areas in Chongwe District. In the case of Kampasa, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President, why they never used the police to relocate the poor farmers in that area. They instead used the Zambia National Services officers. This subsequently led to the lose of two lives.

Mr Speaker: This matter has already been addressed. I was not present at the time, but I am informed that it was addressed.
  
  Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether it was not embarrassing for his Government to display the mobile hospitals at Levy Park Shopping Mall last week, when his party actually did not agree with the need to buy them. 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, after receiving them, we had to find something to do with them. The hon. Minister of Health has several times in this House described how the role of the mobile hospitals fits in with the general mobility of the flying doctor health provision.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President on the reported incidences of hunger in some parts of the country, especially in the Southern and Western provinces. What is the Government doing about such reports?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we do not operate on informal reports. I ordered the Disaster Management Mitigation Unit (DMMU) together with the non-governmental organisations (NGOs) which are in partnership with it to inspect forty-seven districts. The report which I received is complete. I will avail the entire report to the hon. Members of the House next week. I assure the hon. Members that there is no area we missed, unless perhaps, it is in Washishi or Kilwa Island. However, I think we have covered every area which needed to be covered.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President the plans which the Government has on ensuring that there are no job cuts in the mines following a slump in the prices of copper.
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                    
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is a good question which concerns us. It is not just the direct jobs, but also the indirect ones which we need to worry about. The indirect ones include growing food for those people who are employed in the mines and making spare parts for the mines. The possible ramifications on the labour force are enormous. So, we will engage the mining companies intelligently as we have always done. 

Mr Chikwanda indicated assent.

The Vice-President: The hon. Minister of Finance is nodding his head sagely, meaning that he has also been discussing this matter with the mines. They have a common interest with us of not wanting to lose the workforce even as the copper prices slide downwards.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing the people of Choma to ask His Honour the Vice-President this very important question now that it is has become abundantly clear to all and sundry that, the PF is running a Government with the largest number of hon. Ministers and Deputies, running well over seventy. With the on-going trend of these indiscriminate appointments, especially of hon. Members of Parliament from the Opposition, this number is poised to rise. It is just a matter of time before the PF is entered in the Guinness Book of Records for running the largest, bloated and, perhaps, most wasteful Government. It is clear that the Government will continue creating by-elections.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: In view of what I have said, my question is: How much money has the country, so far, spent in these by- elections? What is His Honour the Vice-President’s estimation of how much more money this country is going to spend on by-elections? The editorial of my good friends, The Post, which is the leading PF vuvuzela, indicated that …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mweetwa: … if the Opposition thinks that the current by-elections are a bad thing, it is wrong because the worst is yet to come. This means there could be more by-elections in the offing. How much money is this country expecting to waste arising from the holding of more by-elections?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am sorry that the Opposition leadership is not able to run the country by itself as it would like to.  

Sir, the question is very unclear. Is he complaining that we have hon. Deputy Ministers who are members of other parties in our ranks? This does not create by-elections. What creates a by-election is when one of those hon. Deputy Ministers serving on this side is expelled by his or her own party. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

The Vice-President: The Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) has not been bad on that score. It has accepted that what we are doing is what they did to us in the old days before 2011. It poached our hon. Members and put them on this side. It has not expelled, in the vast majority of cases, its party members who are working with the PF Government. 

The United Party for National for Development (UPND), where this question has come from, on the hand, has indicated that it will force a by-election whenever we get co-operation from any of its hon. Members to serve as an hon. Deputy Minister. Poaching is essentially a game of numbers. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Member: You poached! 

The Vice-President: Excuse me, Mr. Speaker, I have not quite finished. 

Is the questioner also suggesting that if a Supreme Court ruling comes that a particular seat was improperly procured by a member of whichever party, we should ignore it so as to allow the incumbent to remain in the House?

 There is no logic to the question by Hon. Mweetwa. He has mixed up a lot of different things. We need numbers to run a Government. When you put the MMD and UPND together, it will be greater than the PF in terms of raw numbers. We, therefore, need some way of having a coalition of well-intentioned people. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I thank you …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. 

Is that Vice-President …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, is that Vice-President in order to demean my question and intellect as an hon. Member of this House by suggesting that there is no logic in my question when it is very simple to the extent that even somebody who has not been to school can understand it? 

Is that Vice-President in order to say that there is no logic in my question when I just wanted to find out how much money we have spent so far and how much money this country expects to spend on by-elections? That question was straightforward. Instead of answering my question, His Honour the Vice President has just been waffling on the Floor of this House. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr ruling is that the first part of the point of order raises a point of debate, namely whether His Honour the Vice-President was right or fair in asserting that your assertion was illogical. This is a point of debate and you cannot raise a point of order to that extent. 

However, I will also invite His Honour the Vice-President to address, in due course, the latter part of the question that relates to the statistics on by-elections. 

The hon. Member for Namwala may proceed. 

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, Zambia sold 150,000 metric tonnes of maize to Zimbabwe, …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Lubezhi: … in a transaction in which His Honour the Vice-President himself was the broker. 

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours. 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let me seize this opportunity to just offer some counsel. 

My counsel is that it is of utmost importance that as we transact business and debate various items, we are civil to each other. It is no accident that we are referred to as hon. Members. 

It is a term which expects certain behavioural standards from us. One of those standards which is central to the dignity and decorum of the House is the need to be civil to each other. Let us maintain the appropriate temperament. We are all, one way or the other, executing a public trust. It is, therefore, important that we send positive signals to the nation at large. 

Therefore, as we continue with our very popular His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, please, let us maintain the appropriate temperament. This is my appeal. 

The hon. Member for Namwala may proceed. 

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, before the break, I was saying that we have removed subsidies on our maize. Despite that, Zambia still sold 150,000 metric tonnes of maize to Zimbabwe, in a transaction which was brokered by His Honour the Vice-President. 

Mr Speaker, the people of Namwala and Zambia at large would like to know how much Zambia realised from this sale. 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think that the term ‘broker’ has been misapplied here because it implies that I had some money passing through my hands as a middle man. That is not the correct use of the term. I led the delegation down to Harare to finalise, and put commas and full stops to an arrangement which was arrived at, in principle, between the two Presidents. 

The price at which the maize was sold to Zimbabwe was between US $350 and US $355 per metric tonne at the point of collection. That is almost K100, 000 per bag, which is an unsubsidised price, and very much in excess of what local millers have been paying the Food Reserve Agency. Even though it was a good commercial transaction, it also had a sentimental value. We want peace to prevail in Zimbabwe. We also want peaceful elections to take place in our sister country. Whether we like it or not, we are joined at the hip. When one of us sneezes, the other catches a cold. Thus, by making sure that transaction took place, other than commercial ones, we also had other reasons. I am not trying to unnecessarily defend the transaction because the truth of the matter is that the maize we sold to Zimbabwe was not subsidised. 

Sir, on the cost incurred in the holding of by-elections, I had the opportunity to check the numbers during the break. In the 2013 Budget, K5 billion was allocated to go towards by-elections. The actual amount spent, so far, in 2013 has been K22 billion, which is an overrun of K17 billion. This money was raised from the K50 billion contingency account of the same Budget, which the hon. Members, including the lady approved late last year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the deadline for the usage of the old Zambian currency is drawing near and there is a lot of it that has not been exchanged in Lupososhi Constituency in Nsombo and Kilwa areas. I would like to find out what plans the Government has put in place to ensure that the old currency is mopped up.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think there are two different parts of the old and new kwacha issue which must be clearly understood. One has to do with the quoting in the old and new kwacha, which has a deadline of end of this month. After that deadline, you cannot quote in old kwacha anymore, but the actual exchange will continue until 2015. So, even the kwachas which have left Washishi into Angola, then into the Democratic Republic of Congo, and then back into Zambia, will still be changeable in two years, time.

  I thank you, Mr Speaker.

  Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, the Baroste Royal Establishment (BRE) is being subjected to insults by the public in the Western Province because of the failure by that Government (Pointing at Hon. Government Members) to honour its promise to the people of Barotseland.

  Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, do not point fingers. I was just exalting you earlier on. You do not point fingers at your colleagues. Even culturally, it is not acceptable. You just have to train yourself not to do that.

  Laughter

  Mr Speaker: You may continue, please.

  Hon. MMD Member: Hammer!

  Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, when is the PF Government going to honour the restoration of the Barotseland Agreement, so that the BRE is saved from disgrace in public?

  Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

  The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I question, very much, the questioner’s assertion that the BRE is being subjected to insults on a daily basis. Maybe, yes, there are some radicals or karavinas running around in Barotseland or the Western Province, who would like to stir up some trouble. When I was there for the Koumboka Ceremony, the respect which I saw being paid to the Litunga could not be questioned. The celebrations clearly showed that the Lozi were proud of their traditions. The questions surrounding the Barotseland Agreement still need to be looked at. However, I do not think we can look at this issue separately from the decentralisation policies for different provinces. I think we will have to handle everything as part of one package.

  I thank you, Sir.

  Mr Mutelo (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, the Katunda/Lukulu Road is still not being worked on. After having gone on vacation for three months, I would like to know how far the Government has gone in allocating funds for the construction of that road which seriously needs to be worked on.

  Mr Speaker: Just a correction and on a lighter note, in fact, the seat was vacated.

  Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member had plenty of time to send me a notice that he was going to ask that question, but he did not. I would suggest that he either sends me an informal notice that he is going to ask that question again next week or he poses it as an urgent question to the appropriate hon. Minister.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, 200, 000 jobs have been reported to have been created in the last one and a half years.

Hon. MMD Member: Where?

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, in Mbala, we would like to know which of these jobs are in our district. I would like to know if the Government plans to publish a breakdown of these jobs, district by district and which companies or institutions are offering these jobs so that in Mbala, we can know what is available for our brothers and sisters.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is a very intelligent suggestion. I will consult the Central Statistical Office (CSO) and other relevant people to see what level of detail we can circulate to the House.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, during the celebrations to mark the Public Service Day, His Honour the Vice-President was quoted in the media as having said that the Freedom of Information Bill would be presented to the House this week. I would like to know whether he was misquoted or not.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I said that it had reached Cabinet level this week and not that it would come to the House during the same period.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the transporters of maize for the 2011/2012 Farming Season in Senga Hill Constituency and Mbala District have not been paid to date.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I hate to look as if I am trying to dodge questions. However, questions about individual transactions or contracts between the Government and transporters or the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) are better directed to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock. If such a question is directed to me, I would still need to ask him for the details. I am afraid I cannot answer that question because I have not got my Ipad with me for rapid searching on google.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, before I pose the question, I would like to say that I have been standing since the hon. Minister of Health was giving his ministerial statement and was not being given an opportunity to ask my question. So …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, just pause for a moment and sit down so that I can guide the House. When doing my work, I am assisted by the Clerk and her staff here. I am supplied with a list of those who want to ask questions. It is not possible for everybody to pose a question. Even as I sit here, I think I have about ten names that will not ask questions, so, you are lucky that you are asking a question.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I am a bearer of a message from Solwezi East Constituency. As you know, the road from Chingola to Solwezi is in a terrible state. What is the Government doing to ensure that this road is made passable?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that road has already got a contractor and is going to be worked on soon. You can take a message back, to the people of Solwezi East that they should vote for the PF.

Laughter

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, this is a very serious session, in my view. The hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi West asked a question that was apolitical. Is His Honour the Vice-President, Dr Guy Lindsey Scott, in order to start campaigning here and asking the people of Solwezi East, who have already made up their mind on whom they shall vote for, to vote for the PF Government that is showing serious signs of failure? I seek your ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Well, the problem with the point of order is that it raises a substantive point. In fact, the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central was in a way debating when it is not in order to debate through a point of order.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, an hon. Member of Parliament is elected by the people while a District Commissioner (DC) is appointed by the Executive through the President. Is it the Government’s policy for the DC not only to usurp the powers of the hon. Members of Parliament, but also to be seen to fight them? Also as a rider to that, what is the relationship between the hon. Member of Parliament and DC in terms of hierarchy?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would only plead with the hon. Member, if she is having problems with the DC, to try to resolve them because they have to work together. The hon. Member of Parliament is a representative of the people while the DC is appointed by the Executive for the administration of Government programmes. That is why issues regarding hierarchy should not arise. There is a need for co-operation, like the hon. Minister of Justice was talking about earlier in the question between the police in a constituency and the hon. Member of Parliament.

Sir, let me apologise to the hon. Member who raised a point of order. I have never known him to have a sense of humour failure before. I am worried about him.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo interjected.

Laughter 

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I do not know if I should go ahead because it is almost time up.

Laughter

His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time expired.

Mr Speaker: I am afraid you cannot go ahead because of time limitation. We have come to the end.

____________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

DRAFT CONSTITUTION

631. Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Justice:

(a)whether the Technical Committee Drafting the Zambian Constitution would be able to submit the Draft Constitution by 30th June, 2013; and

(b)if not, why.

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, the work of the Technical Committee Drafting the Zambian Constitution is still in progress and the Government will only be able to determine the issue of steps to be taken if the Technical Committee fails to deliver the Draft Constitution on 30th June, 2013. The Government does not speculate on events that are yet to occur.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, we are aware the Technical Committee Drafting the Constitution has been able to formally request the Executive to allow it to submit its work on 31st July, 2013. On the other hand, the hon. Minister of Justice has insisted on the 30th June, 2013, deadline. Can I, therefore, and on behalf of Zambians who are listening, clearly get the Government’s position on whether or not it will be able to allow the committee to submit the Draft Constitution by 31st July, 2013 as requested.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kabimba, SC.): Mr Speaker, the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution gave the Government a roadmap and made an undertaking which I brought to the Floor of this House that it would be able to hand over the final draft copy of the Constitution to the Government by 30th June this year. Accordingly, this House did approve the budget of the technical committee up to 30th June this year. In other words, in accordance with its own roadmap, we expect the Technical Committee Drafting the Constitution to submit to the Government the final copy of the Draft Constitution by 30th June this year because, beyond that date, we do not have a budget provision for their work.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Livune: Sir, I rarely rise on points of order. I am doing so now because the issue I want the Speaker to address is extremely important. Yesterday, most Opposition hon. Members of Parliament refused to speak to their follow Back-benchers on your right mainly because senior hon. Members of the Executive, His Honour the Vice-President and other hon. Ministers, were absent from this House. I have in my hands a copy of The Post newspaper where I can see the His Honour the Vice-President and hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon. Lungu. Are these hon. Ministers and His Honour the Vice-President in order to leave parliamentary sittings to go and waste taxpayers’ money in Chipata to do politics when you have always indicated to this House that parliamentary business takes precedence? I will lay this paper on the Table, which also has a picture of Hon. Malozo Sichone.

Mr Livune laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Speaker: Well, I really do not know what the date of that publication is, but certainly His Honour the Vice-President was here yesterday and if my memory serves me right, including the day before. That aside, I made a ruling on this subject and I thought I was sufficiently clear. I would not like to restate that ruling for the third time. I do not think it will be in the interest of the House to go over this subject again.

  Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Justice repeat the roadmap for the Constitution making process and also state whether Zambians are going to be subjected to a referendum. If that be the case, has the Government got money to undertake this process?

  Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the question of a referendum is predicated on the format of the final Draft Constitution which is yet to be handed over to the Government. We shall cross that bridge when we get there.

  Mr Speaker, I thank you.

  Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, in appreciating the response of the hon. Minister of Justice regarding the prudent management of resources by sticking to the Budget, I would like to say that it is true that a budget is just a wish list. Many a time, successive governments, including this particular one, have in times of an overrun gone into a supplementary budget.

   Sir, the Constitution is the grand law of the country. The technical committee’s failure to meet the deadline and the hon. Minister of Justice insisting that their timeline is up, to me, appears to present an impasse. In his own words, can he tell me what we shall do next? Does he expect the committee to deliver a half baked document on the deadline or is he thinking of coming to this House to ask for a supplementary budget?

  Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I wish to restate the position I gave earlier. The roadmap for coming up with the Constitution was designed by the technical committee. I would like to inform this august House that, in fact, when the committee came to me, it was requesting for an extension of another six months which was going to cost this country a sum of K44 billion. 

  Mr Speaker, there are a lot of things which we need to do in order for us to uplift the standards of living for our people. It is the position of the hon. Minister of Finance which I also agree with that we need to use the limited resources that we have prudently. Our people need to see the results on account of the promises that this Government made to them. Therefore, in wrapping up the answer to the question, I would say that there is no impasse. The technical committee is hereby requested to wind up its work by the 30th of June, 2013.

  Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

  Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, will the Draft Constitution, in whatever its form, be handed to the President, Parliament and the public at the same time?

  Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the terms of reference of the technical committee say that the final Draft Constitution will be handed over to the President who appointed it.

  Mr Speaker, I thank you.

  Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, I am worried about the insistence in the answers by the hon. Minister of Justice. We want more clarity.

  Mr Sing’ombe: On a point of order, Sir.

  Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

  Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order.

  Mr Speaker: I do not know why people apologise.

  Laughter

  Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the chance to raise this serious point of order. Today is a Black Friday …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

  Mr Sing’ombe: … and people out there are putting on black outfits to protest against the removal of subsidies. Are Hon. Mwaliteta and Hon. Njeulu in order to put on black suits on a Black Friday like today to protest against the removal of subsidies?

  Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

  Laughter

  Mr Speaker: Well, I am also wearing a black suit, ...

  Laughter

  Mr Speaker: … but certainly, I am not privy …

  Laughter

  Mr Speaker: … to all those forms of protests. I have to wear a black suit every single day …

  Laughter

  Mr Speaker: … regardless of the day of the week.

  The hon. Member for Zambezi West may continue.

  Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, today, the 28th …

  Hon. Members: 20th?

 Mr Kakoma: I said the 28th of June. What did you hear? The 30th of June falls on Sunday and we are going for a long weekend. The next working day is the 3rd of July. Effectively, the working period of the technical committee is coming to an end today which is a working day. In fact, the commitee should hand over the Draft Constitution to the President today. Can the hon. Minister confirm that actually the Constitution-making process has effectively come to an end?

  Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, coming from a legal background, I would say that the end of the working day for the technical committee is not today, but the next working day.

  Mr Speaker, I thank you.

  Laughter

  Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister of Justice correctly, he denied that there is a standoff between the technical committee and Government. However, by inference, it is clear that there are differences. The technical committee has insisted that if the hon. Minister wants the report by June 30th, it is going to be raw. Is it in the interest of this Government that the technical committee should hand in an incomplete Draft Constitution of Zambia to the President?

  Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the answer that we have provided to this House is very clear. The apprehension and anxiety can only be determined by the Government depending on the format of the document that the technical committee is going to submit at the end of its programme of work. 

  I thank you, Sir.

  Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the PF Government promised Zambia that the Constitution was going to be ready within ninety days. That promise has not been fulfilled. An extension to the working period was made, but still, the Constitution is still not ready. The hon. Minister of Justice cannot even give us the roadmap. In his competence as hon. Minister of Justice, I would like him to admit that the Constitution-making process is not as easy as they thought it would be.

  Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the roadmap of the Constitution-making process has been well outlined in our party manifesto. It may not be appropriate for me to ask my dear sister to have a look at the PF manifesto because that may be contagious.

  Laughter

  Mr Kabimba, SC.: Sir, the roadmap is clearly outlined our manifesto. Our manifesto did not  say on any page that the Constitution-making process was going to be completed in ninety days. 

  Mr Livune: Question!

  Mr Kabimba, SC.: It does not say that anywhere. The handling of issues to do with the Constitution-making process had been left within the competence of the technical committee. As a Government, we, from time to time, made pronouncements assuring the people of Zambia that this process shall be people driven without any form of interference. We have been committed to that position.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, the technical committee has indicated that it is willing to do the work for no pay. I want the hon. Minister to confirm whether the Government is reluctant to allow an extension because the Zambian people and the technical committee have come up with clauses in the draft Constitution such as the Vice- President being a President’s running mate, and the 50 per cent plus one majority vote for a President to be elected, which seem to be at variance with the PF Administration’s plans?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I have not seen any copy of the Draft Constitution, and I am sure that none of my colleagues in the Government have seen it at this stage. Secondly, I have not received any correspondence from the technical committee to the effect that it would like to do pro bono work for another thirty days from the last deadline. I have heard this pronouncement through the press and it was made when I was out of the country. Unless I get written correspondence from the technical committee, I am not in a position to confirm that position.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, how is the Government handling the public confidence during the creation of the Constitution? I ask this question because it looks like the confidence of the public in the Constitution-making process has gone down. This is because of the way the request by the technical committee to extend its work period has been handled by the Government. The technical committee made the request through the media. This looked like a showdown between the technical committee and the Ministry of Justice. What is the Government doing to build public confidence so that when this Draft Constitution goes to the people during the referendum, it will not be met with apathy?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for that question. There is really no showdown between the technical committee and the Ministry of Justice. In fact, my colleagues and I in the ministry held a meeting with the technical committee so that we could hear its case. We, the Government, also made a counter presentation. Following that meeting, I wrote to the technical committee regarding what had been discussed in that meeting, and the position of the two parties. Following that correspondence to the technical committee, I held a media briefing to inform the public about the situation because this issue is a matter of public interest. Unfortunately, instead of the technical committee writing back to the ministry, it decided to hold a media briefing. What was said at the press briefing was hearsay to me and my lawyer colleagues in the ministry. Therefore, I request the technical committee to write back to the ministry because we cannot run the Government through the media or the cellular phone. We would like to maintain the public confidence in this process because we want the public to own the final product of the process.

I thank you, Sir.

PUBLIC CONVINIENCES

632. Mr Mutale (Kwacha) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to construct public conveniences                         at town centres, market and bus stations countrywide; and

 (b)    if not, why.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct more public conveniences in the districts. Under the 2013 Budget, there is KR800,000 for the improvement of sanitation in markets and bus stations in all selected towns. This Government’s support is envisaged to be rolled out to other towns in 2014.

Mr Speaker, in selected towns, the programme will commence immediately after the local authorities submit their proposals to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing for consideration and approval. As for the other towns, the Government is advising all local authorities to formally submit their requests to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing for consideration under the 2014 Annual Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I believe that the question from the hon. Member for Kwacha was in light of the fact that the PF policy is to legalise street vending. I also appreciate the answer from the hon. Deputy Minister. He indicated that money has been allocated to construct public conveniences in markets in selected towns. In view of the policy to legalise street vending, or let me call it using the nomenclature which they have given street vending, street trading ─ since the PF Government legalised street vending, how many corresponding public conveniences has the Government constructed, even in the selected towns? I believe that the street vending policy has not been limited to selected towns. It is countrywide. How many toilets has the PF built in those selected towns to cater for street vendors? We all know that these street vendors have been defecating in Shake Shake packs and plastic bags which they have been throwing in undesignated areas, thereby posing a very serious health risk.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kufuna): Mr Speaker, let me start by saying that the question is not talking about public conveniences everywhere. It is specific. The public conveniences that have been budgeted for in the 2013 Budget will be constructed on the Copperbelt.

The towns where these public conveniences will be constructed are in Kitwe, Ndola, Chingola and Mufulira. However, in Lusaka, the Lusaka City Council is already constructing public conveniences behind the post office. The work there is at 50 per cent completion. There are also public conveniences which are being constructed behind Kulima Tower. The work there is at slab level. 

I thank you, Sir.

LAND DISPUTES IN KAPUTA

633. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection:

(a)whether the Government was aware that the increase in population in Kasongole, Chimpatika, Kafwimbi and Nsenga villages in Kaputa District had resulted in land disputes involving the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), the Department of Forestry and the local residents:

(b)if so, what measures the Government had taken to address the problem;

(c)whether the villagers at (a) above, would be resettled and, if so, where they would be  resettled; and 

(d)what the cost of the resettlement exercise would be.

The Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the fact that the increase in population in four villages in Kaputa District has led to disputes involving ZAWA, the Department of Forestry and local residents.

Infact, Sir, following an earlier question in the last sitting, which was raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaputa, the ministry sent a team to the area during the first week of May, 2013, which was led by the Permanent Secretary. The team has since presented its findings to the ministry. The villagers have not yet settled in the reserve, but villagers are cultivating in it. However, the serious problem concerns the national park where the villagers have settled.

Mr Speaker, we are, therefore, following up this matter with our colleagues in the Ministry of Tourism and Art so that we can come up with a lasting solution.

I thank you, Sir.

DISBURSEMENT OF YOUTH DEVELOPMENT FUND IN SESHEKE

634. Mr Sianga (Sesheke) asked the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport:

(a)how much money from the Youth Development Fund was disbursed to youths in Sesheke Parliamentary Constituency from 22nd September, 2011 to 22nd September, 2012;

(b)how many youths benefitted from the fund; and

(c)what developmental activities the funds were spent on.

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Miyutu): Mr Speaker, the ministry disbursed a total sum of KR8,000 to a youth group in Sesheke Parliamentary Constituency between 22nd September, 2011 to 22nd September, 2012.

Sir, there is only one youth group called Bupilo Kimasunda Youth Club, which benefitted from the Youth Development Fund. This youth group has ten members of which five are males and five are females.

  Mr Speaker, Bupilo Kimasunda Youth Club is involved in a piggery project.

  I thank you, Sir.

  Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, …

  Mr Chisala: On point of order, Sir. 

  Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, my point of order is not meant to injure anyone in this House. It is aimed at normalising the behaviour of hon. Members of Parliament in this House.

Hon. Members of Parliament are supposed to behave in a dignified manner at all times. However, after your ruling yesterday, Hon. Victoria Kalima, Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa stormed out of this House in perceived anger.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Chisala: This morning, another hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi East, Mrs Sayifwanda, in perceived anger, also stormed out of the House, shortly after your ruling …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chisala: Sir, this shows that some hon. Members of Parliament are deliberately violating the rules of this hon. House, and yet, a number of them have been here for a considerable length of time and do know what they are supposed to do.

      Mr Speaker, their behaviour gives me a lot of difficulties in distinguishing between a woman      
  and a lady.

    Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

  Mr Chisala: It also gives me a problem in distinguishing between a gentleman and …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, please try to confine yourself to the point of order. 

Continue, please.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, the behaviour of these hon. Members is contrary to the conduct of parliamentary etiquette outlined in the Member’s Hand Book on Chapter 5, Clause 14, which says:

“Members should not leave the House immediately after delivering their speeches in the House. Courtesy to the House requires that after finishing their speeches Members resume their seats and leave the House only afterwards, if necessary.” 

Mr Speaker, are the hon. Members who have continued demeaning this House in order to continue storming out of this Chamber at will? I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that Chapter five of the handbook is very clear on the point that the hon. Member has addressed. Whether this is coincidence or otherwise, I think it is the reason that particular rule was developed. Whenever a ruling is made against an hon. Member’s position and such an hon. Member elects, immediately thereafter, to walk away, there is a presumption that the exit is a sign of protest. That conduct is totally unacceptable and, in fact, contemptuous. 

In future, such conduct will invite me to respond appropriately and refer such conduct to the appropriate body of our institution which is the Committee of Privileges, Absences and Support Services so that it may assist me interpret such conduct and if need be mete out the necessary sanctions.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, … 

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, you have ruled that hon. Ministers should say the truth when answering questions because they represent the entire Government.

Mr Speaker: Could you repeat what you have said. I missed a word.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, you have ruled that hon. Ministers are supposed to be factual when answering questions instead of somersaulting.

Mr Speaker, I heard the Minister of Justice stating that the PF never said that it could deliver the Constitution in ninety days in its manifesto or any other paper. I went to do my research and found the first President’s speech which was read before this House on Friday, 14th October, 2011. The President was seated in his Chair and said on page 39 that:

“The PF Government attaches great importance to good governance and is committed to delivering a new people-driven Constitution within ninety days.” 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Justice in order to say something contrary to what was said by His Excellency the President when he committed himself to deliver the Constitution within ninety days?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe laid a copy of the President’s Speech on the Table 

Mr Speaker: In order to properly put this matter to rest, the only person who can best respond to the issue raised in that point of order is the hon. Minister of Justice. I will give him an opportunity to indicate his position in light of the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Chadiza.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I have not finished. I will not require him to do so this afternoon. 

Mr Mukanga indicated assent.

Mr Speaker: I will give him an opportunity to reflect on it and to read the statement that has been referred to and any other material so that he can also appraise himself.

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, between 22nd September, 2011 and 22nd September, 2012, only one group benefited from this very important youth empowerment initiative. 

Mr Speaker, are there any intentions to extend the funding to Sesheke Central Parliamentary Constituency so that more youths can benefit from this very important initiative? 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the issue of youth empowerment is non-partisan and is taken seriously in this country and the Southern African Development Community (SADC) as well as other Commonwealth regions. It is the cornerstone for the development of the country.

Mr Speaker, in the Commonwealth, all countries have serious youth empowerment initiatives. In reference to the question, I wish to state that the ministry is in the process of expanding its empowerment activities so that it reaches as many districts as possible.

Sir, hon. Members may know that the ministry’s presence only ends at provincial level. You have the Provincial Youth Co-ordinator with about two staff. The ministry is not represented at district level. We want to change that. Before that change occurs, the ministry will continue to implement its programmes through youth centres and the offices of the District Commissioners (DC). The Office of the DC currently assists in the dissemination of information regarding the Youth Empowerment Fund.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to educate hon. Members …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: … that the application forms can be accessed by any youth free of charge. An individual may only have to incur transportation costs. As hon. Members of Parliament from various constituencies, we also have the mandate to disseminate the information to the youths. We should make sure that we are there for them because the non-availability of information to the youths is very detrimental to their welfare. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.

TRANSFER OF TEACHERS

635. Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education how many teachers were transferred from the following provinces in 2011 and 2012:

(a)Northern;

(b)Muchinga;

(c)Lusaka;

(d)Luapula; and

(e)Copperbelt.
The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, for the period of 2011 and 2012, we had a total 829 teachers who were transferred in the mentioned provinces as follows:

Province    No. of Teachers

Northern    242

Muchinga     48

Lusaka        123

Luapula    330

Copperbelt      86

Total        829

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, may I know whether some transfers were politically motivated or not.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, as far as I am concerned, there are no transfers that were politically motivated. Many of our teachers are either transferred on the basis of promotion, medical grounds or marital status. These are some of the circumstances, as far as we are concerned, which are officially known to the ministry. I am not aware of other reasons other than the ones I have stated.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to take advantage of this question to find out from the hon. Minister when the ministry is going to deploy the teachers who graduated recently. If I recall correctly, these graduate teachers were assured that they would be deployed around April, this year. Now, we are coming to the end of June.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the recruitment and deployment teachers will be done in the course of this year. Obviously, as the hon. Member of Parliament is aware, every year, we do have Treasury authority to recruit 5,000 teachers. Presently, we are just going through the necessary processes. Sooner or later, there will be an advert in the newspaper for the recruitment of teachers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

ESTABLISHMENT OF COMMUNITY RADIO STATION IN KAPUTA

636. Mr Ng’onga asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting:

(a)whether the ministry had plans to facilitate the establishment of a community radio station in Kaputa;

(b)what the requirements for a broadcasting licence for a community radio station were; and

(c)whether there were any institutions in the country that supply equipment for community radio stations and, if so, what their names were. 

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Mr Kapeya): Mr Speaker, the setting up of a community radio station is initiated by the community members themselves and not the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services. Similarly, the establishment of a community radio station in Kaputa must be driven by the local people themselves, who must see the need for information to be taken closer to their doorsteps than for it to be churned out from Lusaka. Information which is churned out of Lusaka may not have an immediate impact on their lives. The local people need to come up with a board of directors from amongst themselves and then apply to the ministry for a licence.

Mr Speaker, the requirements for a broadcasting licence for a community radio station are contained in a document which can be obtained from the ministry’s public relations office and they comprise the following:

(i)a project proposal;

(ii)a certificate of registration or incorporation from Patents and Companies Registration Agency(PACRA);

(iii)a map of the coverage area;

(iv)a list of fixed and movable assets and their cost;

(v)a memorandum of understanding if applicable;

(vi)a letter confirming whether you will be using your own buildings and if it is a rented building, a copy of a lease agreement;

(vii)a certificate from the relevant civil aviation authority allowing one to put up a mast;

(viii)a bank statement providing that one has not less than KR60,000 in a bank account;

(ix)advertise in two most widely read newspapers that one is applying to the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services to establish a radio or television broadcasting station. The advert should contain the name of the station and the town where it will be located. Afterwards, attach two cuttings of the adverts to the application form;

(x)programming schedule from Monday to Sunday.

Mr Speaker, after all the above requirements have been met, the applicant is required to pay an application fee of KR315 and submit the application to the Minister’s office. It will later be forwarded to the Licensing Committee which recommends to the hon. Minister whether the application has satisfied the requirements or not.

Mr Speaker, yes, there are institutions in the country that supply broadcasting equipment and these are:
(a)Mangrova Company in Lusaka;

(b)Broadcom, an American company with agents in Lusaka; and

(c)MASDAR Company based in the United Kingdom which has also got agents in Lusaka.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that for members of the community to open up a community radio station, they need to have KR60,000 in their account. I think this requirement will make it so difficult for some areas to open up radio stations. Does the Government intend to reduce the security fee to, at least, KR20,000?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, currently, that is the requirement. However, the ministry can still consider an application of a community which fails to meet that requirement if it presents its case properly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, in view of the likely difficulty by the communities to come up with radio stations arising from the nature of the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Sesheke, is your ministry considering allowing the existing community radio stations to expand their radius so that they can cover those areas which are currently not serviced? This is in line with the PF campaign promise that it would allow community radio stations to broadcast right across the width and breadth of this country.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, let me applaud the hon. Member for Choma Central for bringing up a very cardinal observation. In fact, the creation of new districts has definitely come at the right time. This is because once we set up community radio stations in every single district, it will mean that every area of need will be covered. For example, if Lusaka, Chibombo and Kabwe, all had community radio stations, it would mean that all the surrounding areas would be covered. The suggestion by Hon. Mweetwa is a very good one and is in line with what the Government is doing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, the construction of a community radio station in Lukulu District finished some time back. Unfortunately, the station cannot go on air because of not having a licence. I have raised this question before on the Floor of this House. We are still waiting for a licence from the ministry. Why is the hon. Minister dragging his feet to grant us the licence.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu East should not spoil the soup. As a ministry, we are already looking into that matter. We had sent a team to the area which came back with a favourable report.

I thank you, Sir.    

Mr Speaker: So, nothing is spoilt.

MEASURES TAKEN TO IMPROVE CELLULAR SIGNAL IN NCHELENGE

637. Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication what measures the Government had taken to facilitate the improvement of cellular phone signal in Nchelenge District in general and Kabuta, in particular.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, the Government is working with the licensed mobile operators to expand and improve mobile communication in the country. Specifically, in Nchelenge, all the three mobile operators have a presence. ZAMTEL currently has one tower site in the district, but will, within the course of 2013, deploy two more sites. MTN has four sites in the district and one of the sites is located in Kaputa. Airtel has seven sites in the district and one site is specifically in Kaputa. Furthermore, a tower will be installed in Chief Nshimba’s area under the on-going tender of rolling out 169 towers to cover chiefdoms. The deployment of additional towers will improve communication in the district.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

AMBULANCES FOR NCHELENGE

638. Mr Mpundu asked the Minister of Health:

(a)when the Government would provide ambulances for the following health facilities in Nchelenge District:

(i)Nchelenge District Medical Office;
(ii)Kanyembo Rural Health Centre;
(iii)Kambwali Rural Health Centre;
(iv)Kabuta Rural Health Centre; and
(v)Mutono Clinic; and

(b)when the Government would construct a health post at Kasumpa.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Mulenga): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the shortage of ambulance services in Nchelenge District, and, indeed the nation as a whole. 

The Government appreciates that functioning ambulance services increase access to health services for the people of Zambia. To this effect, the Government has taken measures to avert the shortage of ambulance services, not only in Nchelenge District, but also in all districts countrywide. The Government has procured, as we have already informed the House and the nation, 207 ambulances, broken down as follows: 42 advanced ambulances, 160 basic ambulances and 5 type four ambulances, to be distributed to all districts in the country.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that currently, Nchelenge District has two ambulances which are being used for patient referral from health centres to the first level health facility at the Saint Paul’s Mission Hospital and, thereafter, to Mansa General Hospital. 

The ambulance stationed at the Nchelenge District Medical Office is used for patient referral from the health centres on the mainland to the Saint Paul’s Mission Hospital. Patients from Chisenga and Kilwa Islands are transported using a boat ambulance stationed at Nchelenge Harbour. The ambulance stationed at Saint Paul’s Mission Hospital is used for patient referral to the Mansa General Hospital. 

Mr Speaker, we mentioned several times in this House that the Government will construct 650 health posts countrywide through a line of credit of US$50 million from the Government of India and Nchelenge District shall benefit a total of six health posts. However, Kasumpa is not on the proposed list although it will be considered in the 2015 Infrastructure Development Plan. 

Mr Speaker, perhaps I should take advantage of this question to inform the House and the nation at large about the progress made in the procurement process and construction of health posts. 

In March, 2013, we promised that we would complete the procurement process by June, 2013. Indeed we have completed the procurement process for the construction of the health posts. As the situation stands today, three contractors, Angelica Company Limited, Mega Company Limited and Jaguar Company Limited have since been picked. 

Mr Speaker, these three contractors are all Indian firms. They have been given three lots to construct these health posts. Contracts are expected to be signed by next week. After the contracts have been signed, we expect the contractors to start mobilising. I, therefore, urge my colleagues to work with the district medical officers and provincial medical officers in ensuring that the contractors are directed to the correct sites as they come to our constituencies. The sites have already been identified.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, the issue concerning district ambulances is very exciting, especially to the rural constituencies. I would like to find out if there is a time frame set for us to receive the district ambulances.

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that good question. The contractors, whom we gave the contract to supply the ambulances have done everything. These ambulances are expected to be in the country by August this year. What that means is that, the distribution of the ambulances is expected to begin in September this year.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, in my constituency, there are some areas that have been identified and clearly marked as places where the construction will take place. However, we feel that those sites are not the best for such construction works to take place. As a district, are we at liberty to identify proper sites instead of those that have been indicated in the ministry’s schedule?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, it is important to work with the technocrats, who are professionals. As the Ministry of Health, there are certain aspects, such as the population, and proximity, that are taken into consideration whenever a health facility is being constructed. So, it is important to work with the technocrats. If it turns out that the area that was initially earmarked for the construction of a health post now has some other infrastructure, we can then liaise with the professionals who can provide guidance over the matter.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I am glad to hear that finally, the procurement process is coming to an end. The hon. Minister has stated that there are three contractors that have been picked and that nine lots have been allocated. Would I be wrong to say there is one lot missing, since we now have ten provinces?

  Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, indeed, there are three contractors that have been contracted to put up these health posts. I mentioned that we have divided the country into three lots and not nine. This means that all the three contractors have a lot each.

   I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Sir, if I got the hon. Minister correctly, the three contractors are not indigenous. I am wondering why that is the case or will there be any provision to subcontract the works to indigenous contractors? Will there also be any community contribution?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, indeed all the three contractors are Indian. As you may be aware, we have just gotten the money for these projects from India and one of the conditions that we were given is to contract Indian companies. However, in terms of procurement, there is a provision to partner with local Zambian subcontractors.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kalila(Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I have been itching to ask this question. The information on the construction of these health posts was given a long time ago. I would like the hon. Minister to confirm that these health posts will be made out of prefabricated material. This has not been mentioned to the public. Does the hon. Minister not think it is time this was mentioned, if it is the correct position?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament because he has just reminded me that I did not complete answering the question from Hon. Mooya who asked whether there is a contribution from the community towards the construction of these health posts. There is no contribution from the community as the construction is going to be done under contractual obligations. There is no need for the community to contribute anything. For sure, the hospitals will be made out of prefabricated structures. The material that is going to be used will be imported from India.

Thank you, Mr Speaker. 

MOBILE HOSPITAL SERVICES IN DUNDEMWEZI CONSTITUENCY

639. Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)how many times the mobile hospital service has been to Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency since the inception of the mobile hospital service;

(b)which areas were visited by the mobile hospital team; and

(c)when the Government would provide health facilities to the following areas of the Constituency:

(i)Kantanda;
(ii)Nabulangu; and 
(iii)Omba.

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the mobile hospital service has been to Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency once since its inception in April, 2011. The mobile hospital was stationed at Chilala from 29th August to 4th September, 2012, at which 1,468 patients were attended to with 250 operations conducted.

Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, is making efforts to ensure that effective health services are brought as close to the family as possible. In line with its policy to have a health facility for every 5 km radius, the Government has embarked on the process of constructing the 650 health posts I was just talking about earlier. Of these 650 health posts to be constructed, a total of ten are planned for Kalomo District of which four shall be in Dundumwezi Constituency. In addition, the Government has prioritised the construction of additional health posts in 2014 at Kantanda, which is 50 km from the nearest health post, Nabulangu, which is 25 km from the nearest health post and Omba, which is 20 km from the nearest health post.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the mobile hospital was taken to Chilala which is only a few kilometres away from Macha Mission Hospital denying access to the people furthest from any health facilities in Dundumwezi?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, even if I am an hon. Deputy Minister, I still may not know all the sites in the country which need mobile hospital services the most. The mobile hospitals are manned by provincial medical officers. Therefore, we shall liaise with the provincial medical officer and see how we can help the situation.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

REHABILITATION OF ROADS IN KABOMPO PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

640. Mr Lufuma asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the Government would rehabilitate the following roads in Kabompo West Parliamentary Constituency:

(a)    Litoya to Kafungo on the west bank of the Kabompo River;

(b)    Kamavonge / Chifuwe;

(c)    Kabompo Boma /Kalwilo via Chikenge;

(d)    Nkulwashi/ Kabulamema/M8 Road Loop;

(e)    Mumbeji /Maveve /Mulundu;

(f)    Kayombo /Lunyiwe /Kamilava; and

(g)    Kayombo /Dikolonga on the Angolan border.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the feeder roads listed under (a) to (g) are part of the existing feeder road network in the North-Western Province. These roads are not part of the roads to be worked on in the 2013 Road Sector Annual Work Plan (RSAWP). However, the Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), will rehabilitate these roads when Kabompo District Council prioritises them and resources become available. The RDA will, however, undertake road condition surveys through the regional manager to ascertain the scope of work and cost estimate for the rehabilitation works that might be required to be done immediately.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, we note with appreciation that there is a pontoon in operation at Kabompo at the moment. However, for it to contribute meaningfully to the economic development of the area, it is incumbent upon the Government to ensure that the Litoya/Kafungo Road, which is in a bad state, is rehabilitated. Is the hon. Minister considering rehabilitating, at least, this particular road?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I think that if the hon. Member were listening to what I said, he would have heard that I said that the Kabompo District Council needs to prioritise that road. However, to help the situation in the interim, we are going to send our regional manager to ascertain the scope of work that will be required for us to work on that road. We will be able to state what we can do after the assessment report.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON YOUTH AND SPORT

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Youth and Sport for the Second Session of the Eleventh National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 10th June, 2013.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, in accordance with the terms of reference of your Committee, it undertook a study on the preparedness of Zambia for international sports competitions. Your Committee also considered the Action-Taken Report on the Report of the Committee on Youth and Sport for the First Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. In line with this topical issue, your Committee undertook local tours to the Southern, Copperbelt and Lusaka provinces. 

Mr Speaker, since hon. Members are privy to the contents of the report of the Committee, I will only highlight a few salient issues. Your Committee observed with concern the poor performance of the country in international sports competitions. This prompted it to undertake a study to establish the preparedness of Zambia to host international sports competitions.

Mr Speaker, for the country to enhance its performance in international sports competitions, a number of factors have to be considered. Some of the challenges facing sport in Zambia are:

(i)inadequate funding;

(ii)progressive decline in the enforcement of physical education in our schools and  
                       other institutions of learning; 

(iii)the demise of parastatal companies;

(iv)the high cost and lack of sports equipment;

(v)inadequately trained coaches and administrators;

(vi)lack of national championships by sports associations; and 

(vii)conversion of community sports infrastructure into other investments.

Mr Speaker, the above may also be cited as some of the reasons for the poor performance of Zambia at international sports competitions. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee noted that sports equipment in the country is very expensive as Customs Duty and Value Added Tax are very high. As a result, most sports clubs fail to acquire adequate sports equipment. Additionally, the lack of Government incentives to the few companies that sponsor sports associations has not helped matters. Companies are willing to assist sports associations only if the Government would give them tax concessions on the money spent on the sponsorship of sports goods and services.

Mr Speaker, while appreciating the introduction of a tax rebate on sports equipment, your Committee realises that the one year period for the rebate is not sufficient for those involved in the business to set their business base. In this regard, your Committee is of the considered view that the tax rebate be extended for a longer period of time as a year will not be enough for the required sports equipment to be acquired.

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes with concern that the period of camping by most national teams for international competitions is far from adequate. Your Committee learnt that some athletes only go in camp a few days before a competition. This impacts negatively on their performance in international competitions.

Sir, your Committee, therefore, recommends that the minimum camping period for all national teams be a month before any international competition so as to equip the players and athletes with the required fitness.

Mr Speaker, in addition to the above, your Committee observes that there is a lack of national championships by most sports disciplines in the country. This has resulted into the country’s poor performance in international competitions. One wonders how some sportsmen and women in the country have been national champions for long periods without being subjected to competitive national championships.

Sir, your Committee, therefore, recommends that all sports disciplines have district, provincial and national championships before the selection of the national teams to participate in international competitions so as to pick the best sportsmen and women to represent the country.

Mr Speaker, a country’s state of sports infrastructure has a bearing on its performance in international competitions. Your Committee observed that apart from the newly-constructed stadia in Lusaka and Ndola, the state of sports infrastructure in the country leaves much to be desired. Your Committee further observed that sports grounds and halls lack proper maintenance. As a result, they are in a dilapidated state. It is disheartening that the local authorities have neglected their mandate and responsibility to protect the land where these facilities have been put up. Football grounds have been found wanting as far as their being leased out to business people, churches and houses is concerned.

Sir, further, the condition of most infrastructure in the provinces, districts and rural areas is in a bad state and falls short of the required standard. Therefore, there is a need for the rehabilitation and construction of sports infrastructure countrywide in order to improve sport in the country.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also notes that in an effort to improve sports infrastructure, the Government rehabilitated the National Sports Development Centre (NSDC), constructed a modern Olympic standard swimming pool at the Olympic Youth Development Centre (OYDC) and rehabilitated the Nkoloma Stadium during the successive hosting of the Under 20 Zone Six Games in November, 2012. This is not the end in itself, as most of this infrastructure is just along the line of rail and, thus, the rural sportsmen and women cannot access it.

Mr Speaker, your Committee recommends that the Government establishes centres of excellence like the OYDC in other provinces, for easy accessibility by the aspiring athletes. The Government should also renovate the existing sports facilities in the country.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude let me state that your Committee wishes to commend all the stakeholders from the Government and the private sector that have continued to contribute to the advancement of sport in the country. Your Committee also commends Airtel Zambia Limited for its sponsorship of the Rising Stars Football Programme that has contributed to talent identification from all parts of the country. Your Committee implores other companies to come on board and supplement the Government’s efforts for the development of sport in the country

Mr Speaker, your Committee remains indebted to all witnesses who appeared before it for providing the necessary memoranda. Further, I would like to convey my appreciation to all the members of your Committee for their commitment and co-operation during this session. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee also wishes to express its gratitude to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the services rendered.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Mulomba: Now, Sir.

Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to second this very important Motion on the Floor of this House. I wish to second the Motion that has been ably moved by the Chairperson of the Committee. I will restrict my comments to matters that were not highlighted by the mover.

Mr Speaker, your Committee realises that the privatisation of parastatal companies such as the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) and Zambia Industrial and Mining Corporation (ZIMCO) dealt a blow on sports development in the country.

Sir, gone are the once thriving sports programmes and national sports festivals through which a lot of talent for the national teams was uncovered. The ZCCM teams which were once dominant have become shadows of themselves and were languishing in lower divisions due to the drying up of sponsorships. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Government to encourage investors in the mining and other sectors, not only to setup sporting academies, but to also rehabilitate and modernise the sporting facilities left by ZCCM and ZIMCO. This will improve the country’s performance in international sports competitions.

Mr Speaker, the lack of commitment on the part of the Government to enforce physical education and sports programmes in schools and colleges had a telling effect on the standards of sports in the country. There is an adage in sports that states “catch them young”. Schools are the best institutions to do that as most young people go there. The country has lost an opportunity of doing so by neglecting physical education and sports in schools and collages. 

Sir, young people exposed to physical education and sport at early ages carry the physical fitness trends throughout their lives. Additionally, the move by the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to reduce its commitment towards sports development had not only affected the nation at large, but also the local community sports. 

Mr Speaker: Order!
(Debate adjourned)

__________

The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours Wednesday, 3rd July, 2013.