DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 9th July, 2013

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER
__________ 

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

THE CONSTITUTION-MAKING PROCESS

The Minister of Justice (Kabimba, SC.): Mr Speaker, I thank you for permitting me to issue a ministerial statement.

Mr Speaker, in our manifesto, we promised the Zambian people that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government would establish, in consultation with stakeholders, a committee of experts to review the recommendations of all the previous constitutional review commissions in order to come up with a Constitution which would reflect the will and aspirations of the people. 

Mr Speaker, we went ahead to campaign on this expression of intent during the 2011 elections. As a party, we were of the view, and sincerely believed, that through the four previous Constitution review commissions starting with the Chona Commission in 1972, the Mvunga Commission in 1991, the Mwanakatwe Commission in 1995 and, most recently, the Mung’omba Commission in 2005, the Zambian people had spoken consistently and made it abundantly clear what they wanted to see in their Constitution. From our standpoint, all that remained, as we saw it then, was the appointment of a small group of experts solely for the purpose of reviewing and condensing the recommendations which were supposed to be drafted into a Constitution for enactment by Parliament. 

Mr Speaker, that is the reason the Government, in consultation with other stakeholders, proceeded to appoint a Technical Committee on Drafting the Constitution and not another Constitution review commission. As far as we were concerned, since the bulk of the work had already been undertaken by the previous Constitution review commissions, we believed that it was possible for such a committee of experts to come up with a Draft Constitution within ninety days. 

Mr Speaker, as a party, we recognised the fact that the Government was only one of the many stakeholders in the Constitution-making process. Moreover, we were mindful of the fact that previous attempts at making a good Constitution in Zambia had failed principally because the Government in power then had taken the driving seat. The PF Government, this time around, did not want to tread the parochial path and fall in the same pitfall which went against the expectations of our people. It wanted to be fair to the Zambian people by ensuring that under its watch as a Government, the Constitution-making process, this time around, would be people driven without any modicum of interference from the Government.

Mr Speaker, at the risk of repeating myself, I wish to stress that although we, the PF, believed that the Constitution could be delivered within ninety days, we left the entire process in the hands of the Technical Committee. The Technical Committee was responsible for drawing up its programme of work. Since we viewed ourselves only as stakeholders, it was not our intention to dictate the pace of the process, lest we be accused of manipulating the process itself.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, there is no doubt that had we insisted or prevailed on the Technical Committee to draft the Constitution within ninety days as we had promised the people, the other stakeholders would have been the first to accuse us of attempting to manipulate the process. Be that as it may, we ensured that the Constitution-making process got underway within ninety days of our assuming office, but the entire programme of work and its pace were left to the stakeholders through the Technical Committee. In this regard, the Technical Committee decided that it would further consult the people by holding district and provincial conventions, and finally, the National Convention in April, this year.

Mr Speaker, members of the public and some groups of stakeholders have, in the recent weeks, expressed anxiety about the progression of the on-going Constitution-making process. We have now agreed with the Technical Committee that it will wind up its programme of work within the approved 2013 Budget provision without any Supplementary Budget from the Government. The committee will, therefore, work expeditiously with the drafting team to ensure that this winding up process is within a reasonable period of time.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by reiterating that the PF Government is fully committed to the crafting of a people-driven Constitution.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement just issued by the hon. Minister of Justice.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has come out very clearly that they misled the Zambians …

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Sikazwe: Question!

Mr Chishimba: Tom and Jerry!
Mr Mbewe: … by underrating the work that was to be done by the Technical Committee. Is the hon. Minister of Justice ready to apologise to the Zambians for misleading them?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka laughed.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I thought that my statement was very categorical and clear. I do not know whether to respond to that question which sounds more like an accusation or a misunderstanding of my statement than anything else.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I thank you. Hon. Minister, you have said that what you believed to be possible has actually proved to be impossible. Now that you have been taught a lesson, are you going to continue with the laissez fare approach instead of intervening or guiding the Technical Committee for the good of the Zambian people?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, this process, like I said, is being wound up. We are, actually, in the final stages of the process. I am hoping that the Technical Committee, together with the drafting team, will be able to wind up the process quickly and present the Draft Constitution to the President.

I thank you, Sir.

   Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mucheleka (Lubasenshi): Mr Speaker, by implication, the hon. Minister of Justice is being flexible and has admitted that the Technical Committee can be allowed to finish its work on the 31st of July, 2013. However, the question is: If, indeed, the Executive has been sincere on the Constitution-making process, can I find out why it has failed to bring to this House, legislation which will be able to protect the content and the process of the Constitution-making process. When does it intend to bring this legislation to this House so that the process can be protected?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I have listened to the argument about the need to protect the process, and I have submitted that I know of no legislation that protected the American Constitution-making process which came up with one of the best constitutions in the world. I know of no legal process that protected the Indian Constitution-making process which is also one of the best constitutions. I also know of no legal process that protected the South African Constitution-making process. Our process is being protected by the people themselves.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, as a Government, we shall do what the people want us to do.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for granting me an opportunity to pose a question to the hon. Minister of Justice. The terms of reference of the Technical Committee were very specific. I would like to believe that the people in the Technical Committee are experts who were given the specific mandate to condense the submissions and come up with a Draft Constitution within ninety days. We have seen the process going on, and up to now, there is still no end in sight. It may end very soon as you have said, but we do not know when specifically it will end. Therefore, can we say ... 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

May I have order on the right.

Dr Kalila: … that the Technical Committee went beyond its mandate and, thereby, created an expense for the Zambians which should not have been created.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, in my discussions with the Technical Committee, it has come out clearly that it went beyond its mandate. For example, it conceded to me that the stage of the National …

Ms Lubezhi interjected.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Namwala, you are not at liberty to speak from your seat.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: … Convention was not part of its terms of reference. However, because it wanted to bring everybody on board, it recommended the holding of the National Convention. The cost for hosting the National Convention was added to the budget which had already been allocated to the Technical Committee.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, the PF stated in its manifesto that when it came into power, the Constitution would be ready in ninety days.

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, that has proved not to be so. The Technical Committee asked for an increment of one month so that it could finish its work. In the statement, the hon. Minster has said that the Government has agreed to the proposal. Since the work was not finished within the planned period, the hon. Minster said that it will now be finished within a reasonable time. The Zambians want to know what the reasonable time which the two sides have agreed on is. The PF Manifesto says ninety days. May I know from the hon. Minister when this “within reasonable time” will be.

Mr Kabimba: Mr Speaker, it means just that: The time taken will be reasonable.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, contained in the social contract which was signed between the Zambian people and the PF, in September, 2011, was a basket of promises, and the most important one was about the Constitution. Today, the PF has admitted failure. May I know if there is any promise, contained in that social contract, which the PF successfully delivered within ninety days.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Chipungu: Bufi

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let me remind hon. Members that this is an opportunity to seek clarification regarding what was contained in the ministerial statement. It is not an opportunity to open a Pandora’s box.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, we have certainly scored some successes. Firstly, we have got all the corrupt people behind bars and in court.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, secondly, we are definitely governing this country better than the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) did.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I must say that I am actually disappointed with the manner in which the hon. Minister is answering the questions, …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Ms Lubezhi: … considering the seriousness of the issue at hand. 

Sir, I need your protection from the hecklers.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us have order in the House. Let me reiterate that some of this heckling is being generated by the so-called questions, which are not clarifications. Restrict yourself to the exercise, namely seeking clarifying regarding the issues which were contained in the ministerial statement so that we can make progress.

Ms Lubhezi: Mr Speaker, the matter at hand is a very serious one which demands serious answers. Following the response given to the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West, I wish to state that on the calendar, from January to December, there is no date called ‘reasonable time’.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubhezi: Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister, for once, get serious and tell us when the Constitution will be ready.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, we are talking about a social science process and not a natural science one.

Hon. Chishimba: Hear, hear, tell them.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, you cannot put a dot on the time at which the process will end. That is why I said that the process will end within a reasonable time.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, the difference between ninety days and a year plus is very big. I want to know where the mistake was. Why was the Government so wrong that it thought that this process could take ninety days, when it has taken over a year? Where has the Ministry of Justice been?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, we are a Government of the people. Thus, we shall do what the people demand of us. When the people decide that the process should be prolonged to satisfy their aspirations, we shall let that happen.

I thank you, Sir.

Professor Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, this is probably the shortest ministerial statement, in the history of this Parliament. The statement is not clear although the hon. Minister insists that it is. Can the hon. Minister of Justice confirm whether the process is expected to end on 31st December, 2013, which will be the last day for the operation of the 2013 Budget.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the money which is going to be used to prolong the process up to 31st December, 2013, is in the K44 billion which was allocated to it in the 2013 Budget. There is no other budget provision for that work. Therefore, the Technical Committee is working within the budget provision that this House approved for 2013. As soon as the Technical Commitee has exhausted that budget, the process must come to an end. Thus, the process will not go beyond, 31st December, 2013.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, it is clear from what the hon. Minister has stated that the Technical Committee is now operating on a shoe-string budget. The Government has refused to give the Technical Committee more money in order for it to complete the job properly. Is the hon. Minister confident that this document that is now being done, hurriedly, without resources, is going to be of an acceptable quality?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the answer is, yes. The major part of the outstanding work is the drafting one. That process is being financed by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and not the United Party for National Development (UPND).

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: UPND!

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Mr Kabimba, SC.: There is sufficient money from the UNDP to finance the drafting of the Constitution. Therefore, we are hopeful that the drafting team, under the auspices of the Technical Committee, will complete this work within a reasonable time.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, following the hon. Minister’s statement that now what remains is the drafting aspect of the Constitution, can he indicate to the nation whether this Draft Constitution will be presented to the President and the public at large, for their digestion, so that the 2016 Tripartite Elections can be held under this new Constitution.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the terms of reference for the Technical Committee state that the Interim Final Draft Constitution shall be handed over to the President who appointed it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I totally agree with the hon. Minister when he says that the bulk of the work in the Constitution-making process has, in fact, already been undertaken by different teams. Why did the Technical Committee find it necessary to embark on the district and provincial gatherings as well as the National Convention when, in actual fact, the bulk of the work was already done?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I asked the Technical Committee the same question which the hon. Member of Parliament has raised. The answer was that it wanted to capture as many views of our citizens as possible. 

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, this statement arises from the point of order raised by Hon. Mbewe before last week regarding the timeframe of ninety days. During the campaigns, the PF promised that the Constitution would be delivered within ninety days. After listening to the statement, I noticed that the hon. Minister had, at least, on three occasions, indicated that the Constitution will be ready within a reasonable time. Can he confirm that the words “within a reasonable time” have now arisen because they have now come to face reality in terms of the amount of work to be done.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I thought that I had given the reasons in my statement which militated against the period of ninety days. I think I clearly outlined the terms of reference of the Technical Committee. I also have already indicated that the Technical Committee said that it needed more than the ninety days period to do its work because it wanted to capture the views of a broad spectrum of people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Chansa: Enchitofye baishiba!

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise this very serious point of order.

Sir, two weeks ago, I raised a point of order regarding a statement which was attributed to the hon. Minister of Health about the importation of beef by Zambeef. Then the hon. Minister of Health came to the Floor of this House and made a statement about the same issue. According to that statement, the hon. Minister found Zambeef culpable. 

Mr Ntundu interjected. 

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Two days ago, the hon. Minister of Health issued a statement that, in fact, the beef that was being imported by Zambeef did not contain …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Sampa interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: … aromatic aldehydes …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Mr Mwiimbu: Further, the Provincial Chief Health Inspector of the Copperbelt issued a letter to all health inspectors on the Copperbelt indicating that they had no capacity to trace those aromatic aldehydes in the beef …

Mr Sampa: Nabalyamo!

Mr Mwiimbu: … which was imported by Zambeef. 

Mr Speaker, even the other professionals indicated that the inspectors had no capacity to carry out such investigations. However, the Government had already gone ahead to threaten Zambeef with legal action. 

Sir, as a result of what was said by the Government, Zambeef has suffered financially.

Hon. Government Members: How do you know that?

Mr Mwimbu: Mr Speaker, bearing in mind the recent statement in the media by the hon. Minister of Health …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: … clearing Zambeef of the allegation of importing contaminated beef, is he in order not to, through you, come to the House, in the same vein as he did two weeks ago, to make a statement clearing Zambeef so that it does not continue suffering in any way as a result of the statements that have been made by the Government on this matter?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Although I do not have the statement which the hon. Minister of Health issued before me on the material date, I do recall, however, that he disclosed only the tentative findings. The hon. Minister also stated that some of the findings were also subject to further investigations. He indicated in his statement the limitations which we face as a country in conducting thorough investigations. Even though I expect him to do so, I wish to direct the hon. Minister, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … in due course, to address the nation and the House as regards the final findings of those investigations.

That is my ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the reason the previous Constitution-making processes failed in this country was because what was being done by the politicians was contrary to what the people wanted. Why is it that the hon. Minister is not keen on coming up with a Bill that will protect the content of the submissions which came from the people?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I just want to reassure the nation, through this House, that this Government is not steeped into the principal of self-preservation. We are here to govern the people of Zambia properly. One of the ways which we are going to show that is through the way we shall handle the Constitution-making process. The process is under guard by the people themselves …

Mr Mucheleka: Aah!

So you know.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: … and we shall respect what they say.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, despite the Government which he is part of being at the heart of the Constitution-making process, the hon. Minister has been quoted several times saying that he is not comfortable with the submission regarding the 50 per cent plus one majority vote for the election of the President. Since he is the chief architect of this process on behalf of the Government, is he not going to influence it with regard to that submission?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, it is actually not true that I am the chief architect of this process. In fact, when I assumed the office of Minister of Justice, I found that my predecessor was a member of the Technical Committee. The first thing I did was to go to His Excellency the President to request that the Minister of Justice should not be an active member of the Technical Committee because of the fact that he was a Member of the Executive. That clearly showed that this Government was not interested in influencing the process in any way.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, last week, here in this Parliament, the hon. Minister of Justice indicated that the request by the Technical Committee for an extension so that it conclude, its work on the Draft Constitution for gratis was made on national television. The hon. Minister indicated to this House that his office does not communicate with the Technical Committee through the media. I would like to know if the Technical Committee finally wrote to his ministry to request for this extension with the same condition that its members would work without pay. Did the committee also say, in its correspondence with the ministry, that it needed only one more month to complete its work as it did on national television?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, I had a meeting with the Chairperson of the Technical Committee. He did not write to me. In that meeting, we agreed that they still have a bit of money from the 2013 Budget allocation to the Constitution-making process. The members of the committe are not going to provide pro bono services. 

Sir, like I said, the money for the actual drafting of the Constitution will come from the UNDP.

Mr Nkombo: Not the UPND.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Not the UPND.

Laughter.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Sir, we have reached a consensus on the best way to drive the process forward in the interest of our people. Thus, there is no pushing and shoving any more. I am hopeful that the Technical Committee will be able to finish its work as quickly as possible. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, If I recall well, the Technical Committee asked for only an extension of a month. The hon. Minister is insisting that the committee should follow the wishes of the people. As representatives of the people, we want the Draft Constitution to be presented to the stakeholders by the 31st of July, 2013. Can the hon. Minister confirm whether things can be done according to our wishes?

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is trying to convert the converted. What I also want to see is a Constitution that is in the interest of the Zambian people. So he is pushing an open door.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister admit that the PF Government has failed …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Sing’ombe: … to produce the required document within the reasonable time. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: You have failed.

Mr Kabimba, SC.: Mr Speaker, the reasonable time has not yet expired.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

__________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

EXCHANGING OF OLD KWACHA NOTES FOR NEW ONES

671. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Finance:

(a)whether the Government was aware that there were still a lot of old kwacha currency which had not yet been exchanged with the new rebased currency in rural areas such as Kaputa;

(b)how the Government intended to assist people in the rural areas where there were no banking facilities to exchange the old kwacha notes with new ones; and 

(c)whether there were any plans to compel commercial banks to provide mobile banking services to the affected areas in order to speed up the process of exchanging old bank notes for new ones.

The Deputy Minister of Finance (Mr Mukata): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this House that as at 31st December, 2012, the old currency in circulation stood at K3.84 trillion. Out of this amount, the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) has withdrawn a total of K3.68 trillion representing a withdraw rate of 96 per cent as at 5th July, 2013. This leaves a total of only K162.29 billion which is 4 per cent in circulation. The Government is aware that part of the old currency still in circulation is in the rural areas. To this effect, BoZ has been working in collaboration with commercial banks and designated agents such as the Zambia Postal Services (ZAMPOST) and the National Credit and Savings Bank (NATSAVE) to ensure that the remaining old currency is withdrawn from circulation. The word ‘circulation’ is only used when referring to the old currency because this money is still in the custody of private citizens, but is not legal tender as of 30th June, 2013.

Mr Speaker, the exchange of the old notes for new ones continues up to 30th June, 2014 at commercial banks and designated agents. It will also be conducted at the BoZ, Head Office and the Ndola Regional Office up to December, 2015. So, we have a gap from now onwards of two and a half years. The public has been allowed ample time to exchange the old currency and, therefore, no one is expected to lose money in the process.

Mr M. H. Malama: Even those who buried it.

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, the BoZ set a six months transition period from 1st January to 30th June, 2013, precisely, to allow the public ample time to exchange the old currency for the rebased currency. The public, however, has also been accorded, as I indicated, a further two and a half years, from 1st July, 2013 to 31st December, 2015, to exchange the old currency for the new one. In order to assist the public in rural areas where there is a lack of banking facilities, the cash exercise will continue to be done with the assistance of ZAMPOST and NATSAVE. 

Sir, generally, commercial banks do not have adequate mobile facilities to provide banking services in rural areas. If commercial banks were to provide this mobile banking service in order to conduct the cash exchange exercise, it would be costly to the public as the banks may levy a charge for this service. However, BoZ compelled commercial banks to provide a cash exchange service to the public at no fee at all in their branches. In addition, BoZ has issued a statement which is now in the public domain regarding all these particular issues, especially, as regards  those fellows who are busy exchanging Zambian Kwacha at a fee and those who are busy enticing our people to hand over this money at a fee. Those people must be reported to law enforcement agencies as this process is supposed to be conducted at no fee at all.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the small denominations, especially the coins are not in sufficient numbers in the rural places, thereby, causing a big problem as the trading in the rural places is based on small denominations? Is there anything that the Government or BoZ is doing to ensure that these small denominations are reaching the rural areas?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, it is true that the currency that is currently in circulation, in terms of the new denominations, is insufficient. The printing process is on-going, both for coins and notes. There is a two-year printing process contract in place which is running from 2012 to 2014. I am sure the problem will be resolved by 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the exchanging of the notes is supposed to be free. There are places which may be very far away from the bank. For example, an old woman might just have a K20,000 or a K50,000, and it may be so expensive for her to jump on a bus to have her notes exchanged and if she did that, she would actually make a loss. Under those circumstances, she may have to pay somebody to go and exchange the old notes for the new ones. Have you considered such situations? Are you realistic in saying that the exchange of notes is not supposed to attract a fee? How are you going to deal with those people who cannot go to the bank?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, obviously, there will be a cost incurred by any person who will be walking to a bank or a branch to go and change that money. That individual will have to expend some energy. The individual may have to eat nshima at a cost in order to get energy for walking to the bank. We engaged ZAMPOST and NATSAVE to go to the far-flung places over a period of one year. I think that is sufficient time for the process to take place. It is not within the legal mandate of BoZ to go into people’s living rooms to exchange the old currency for the new one. It does not have capacity to do that. There is also going to be some form of cost involved for the person who needs to jump on a bus to go and engage in such a transaction. Legally speaking, it is illegal for somebody to make a business out of the exchanging of old notes for new ones. Muya ku angwa. Muza mangiwa, meaning, you will be arrested.

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, why did this Patriotic Front (PF) Government rush to print the new currency notes which are of poor quality? Some of those notes such as the KR2, KR5 and KR10 look like they have been in circulation for more than ten years when they have been in circulation for less than six months. I think this will result in the BoZ ordering more currency to replace the old and poor quality notes.

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, I think it is common knowledge that any paper has a life span.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mukata: It has a life span of even ten years. There is a contract in place for the printing of notes for two years. The previous contract ran out last December. In fact, that was the same time the printing of new notes to replace those which were damaged was being done. So, the rebasing of the kwacha coincided with the maturity date of printing new notes to replace the old ones.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, K162 billion is still in circulation and most of this money is in rural areas like Mafinga where neither NATSAVE nor postal services exist. Can the hon. Minister clearly indicate what mechanism will be put in place by the BoZ to mop up the money that is in the outlying areas.

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, I indicated that ZAMPOST and NATSAVE are using their mobile services to mop up the notes which are in rural areas. I did not say that the money would be mopped up only when NATSAVE sets up a bank or ZAMPOST has a building in a certain area. These institutions are using mobile facilities to go into certain areas. There could be certain human lapses which, for instance, may make them not reach certain areas in Shang’ombo or Mungulamano. So, if there are certain areas where you think we have not mopped up some notes, I think it is important that you bring those areas to our attention or as you come for the next sitting, maybe, you can carry some of the money for your relatives so that it can be exchanged.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mukata: Sir, we all have to bear in mind the fact that it is a process. If certain problems persist beyond the two and half years, we will need to interact and find a way of sorting them out. The institutions I referred to already are willing to go in all the outlying areas to mop up the old currency in rural areas. So, I do not know what other answer the Government can give except the one I have already given.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Sir, Gwembe, for instance, is like Mafinga where there is no NATSAVE or ZAMPOST, especially in areas such as Chisanga where people live 209 km near the lake. What deliberate programme has the BoZ put in place to ensure that the people in Bodo, Chisanga, Muntanga …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: … Giremunyanga …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Mr Ntundu: … Kandazovu, Kalyaya, Kaliyoliyo and Sibulwambeba … 

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I hope you do not intend to exhaust the geography of the country. Let us follow the responses closely. This question has already been answered by the hon. Deputy Minister. He said that these agencies will go beyond the established premises. That is the response that he gave. He also made an appeal to those of you that are able to come to their aid to do that where there are lapses. On a lighter note, I think he should have put a caveat that there are no fees.

Laughter 

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I also come from a rural constituency which is Pemba. Yesterday morning, I received a call from one of the constituency officers who said that his village is in Hajamba. This is a very remote area in Pemba Constituency and there are no proper roads. I do not think that they should actually be called roads at all. His vehicle broke and he had to cycle back to the nearest place where he could get a lift. With such poor infrastructure, does the hon. Deputy Minister think that those mobile services will reach such areas? I would like to find out from him whether it will be prudent to extend the period of exchanging old bank notes for new ones.

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, communication problems are created when you are giving an answer while people are talking. We have extended the period by two and a half years. Is there a need for us to extend the period by another six months so that it is three years? We are amenable to to suggestions. However, for now, we have extended it by two and a half years, so that it runs up to 2015. The hon. Members should tell us if that extension is not sufficient. The poor infrastructure in certain areas is part of the reasons which made it a must for us to extend the period. If it will not be possible to reach Hajamba in the next two and half years, we will be ready to listen to suggestions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, around this time, last month, BoZ issued a statement that about K3 trillion of the new notes had been released into circulation and that only less than K200 billion in the old currency of the old notes where still remaining which is less than 5 per cent. The hon. Deputy Minister said that there is a shortage of coins because not a lot of them were manufactured. Could it be that there was no optimum balance in the production of coins and notes.

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, as we stand now, there is a shortfall in supply. The total expense was about 30.7 million euros for the new currency in terms of notes. For the coins, it was around $3.6 million. Only $I.6 million worth of coins have been delivered from South Africa. About $12.7 million worth of notes have been delivered. There are certain bottlenecks we are facing as we try to avail coins to the public. As regards the need for an optimal balance in the production of coins and notes, I am sure that the suggestion by Hon. Mulusa will be considered.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF HEALTH POSTS IN KAPOMBO WEST CONSTITUENCY

672. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West) asked the Minister of Health when the Government would construct rural health posts in the following areas of Kabompo West Parliamentary Constituency:

(a)    Maveve;
(b)    Kamisamba;
(c)    Katendwa;
(d)    Kalwilio North;
(e)    Luyiwe; and
(f)    Mufuliwa Njamba.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Mulenga): Mr Speaker, as approved under the 2013 Ministry of Health Infrastructure Plan to construct 650 health posts countrywide, the Government will construct health posts in the following areas in Kabompo West Parliamentary Constituency:

(i)Maveve;
(ii)Kamisamba;
(iii)Katendwa;
(iv)Kalwilo North;
(v)Kachikenge;
(vi)Chifuwe East;
(vii)Chipanda;
(viii)Kawanda;
(ix)Safwaya; and
(x)Katombi.

Mr Speaker, the contract has already been signed and the contractor will be moving on site soon. The House may wish to note that the construction of health posts at Luyiwe and Mufuliwa Njamba is not on the 2013 Infrastructure Operational Plan. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how soon is soon.

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, we have dealt with this issue for quite some time. The contract has finally been signed.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulenga: All we are waiting for now is the contractor to move on site. The ‘soon’ therefore is soonest. 

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, I would like a categorical answer from the hon. Minister. When is the contractor going on site seeing that the contract has now been signed?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the contractor does not move on site the moment a contract is signed. This is because logistics have to be put in place after a contract is signed. Equipment and other things have to be mobilised before moving on site. 

As Ministry of Health, we have done our part. All we need is to monitor the progress. Therefore, there is no need to worry. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there is a time frame for mobilisation.  

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, there is a time frame in which the contractor is supposed to mobilise equipment, then move on site. I can safely say that the contractor will be on site within three months. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

OPENING OF MISSIONS IN SAUDI ARABIA AND SOUTH KOREA

673. Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi) asked the Minister of Foreign Affairs:

(a)when the Government would open missions in the following countries:

(i)Saudi Arabia; and
(ii)South Korea; and

(b)what benefits would be derived from the missions above if opened. 

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri) (on behalf of the Minister of Foreign Affairs (Dr Lungu)): Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia has already opened a mission in Saudi Arabia. This mission was opened on 18th March, 2013. 

Sir, the Government of the Republic of Zambia intends to open a mission in Seoul, South Korea, during the 2013 financial year. This will only happen when the ambassador presents his letter of credence to take up his position and his acceptance conveyed.  

Mr Speaker, Zambia will benefit economically by opening a mission in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, in that it is a major producer of oil, as we all know. Having very cordial relations with Saudi Arabia will create a greater opportunity for the country to lure the much-sought-after business opportunities from the Middle East.  

Mr Speaker, by opening a mission in South Korea, Zambia will benefit from that country’s technological advancement and know-how.

I thank you, Sir.  

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, it is important to open missions abroad. However, why open more missions when workers and buildings in the already-existing ones are in a poor state? 

Mr Speaker: The workers are also in a poor state.     

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, you may respond. 

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, missions abroad are being opened based on the expected socio-economic and political benefits for Zambia. We cannot suspend opening embassies abroad on account of not taking good care of the ones which are already open. What we can endeavour to do is look after the embassies already in existence as we soldier on with our efforts to develop relationships with new friends. 

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

CONSTRUCTION OF NEW HOSTELS AT UNZA

674. Mr Chungu (Luanshya) asked the Minister Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)what the total bed space for hostels under construction at the University of Zambia (UNZA) Ridgeway Campus was;

(b)how much money had so far been spent on the project; and

(c)when construction would be completed and the hostels handed over to the university.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the total bed space for one student hostel under construction at Ridgeway Campus is 120. So far, K4,417,896 has been spent out of the initial contract sum of K5,183,200.

Mr Speaker, the construction project was expected to be completed and handed over by 30th August, 2012. However, the contractor is being charged liquidated and ascertained damages amounting to K67,922.64, as at 21st December, 2012, for failing to complete the project on time. Once the issues surrounding the delayed completion of the project are resolved, the hostels will be completed and handed over at an agreed date.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.    

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to ask this follow-up question. Before I do that, I would like to acknowledge the effort that this ministry is making, not only to develop infrastructure, but also in growing the hair of the hon. Minister.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, when we started, the hon. Minister had no hair, but now, he has an afro. I hope that people with bald heads will emulate him.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the bed space under construction is for 120 students. What is the required number of bed space at that campus, and if there is a difference or shortfall, when does the ministry intend to embark on this exercise, again, so that our students can enjoy good life while on campus?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I did not know that I was arriving at a barbershop owned by Hon. Mbulakulima.

Laughter

Dr Phiri: Sir, as you know, Ridgeway Campus is part of UNZA. The estimates by UNZA indicate that the required bed space by Ridgeway Campus is for 120 students. This is what we are providing using the amounts that the Deputy Minister, Hon. P Ngoma, read from the 2012 Budget. Due to a slight problem with the contractor, we were not able to complete this project by August, 2012, but will do so by the end of 2013.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, I would like to know who the contractor is.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, we said that the contractor is being charged. Thus, it would not be prudent to mention the name for very good reasons which the hon. Member of Parliament will appreciate. However, maybe, we could mention the name after the project has been handed over to the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, regarding the private-public-partnership project near the Arcades Roundabout, of which we were informed that there is construction of a hotel and a shopping mall, is the hon. Minister in a position to tell this House whether the developer is also going to put up students’ hostels so that there are direct and immediate benefits to the students. Could you also give us a bonus answer to the following question: Why are you keeping your hair? Is it that the appointing authority does not like those who shave their heads?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Before the hon. Minister responds, that is clearly a new question. However valid, interesting and important it may be, I would urge the hon. Member to file in an urgent question so that, the hon. Minister can fairly and appropriately respond to it. As regards the latter question, I will obviously respect the privacy of the hon. Minister as to why he has decided to grow his hair.

Laughter

CONSTRUCTION OF NEW RAILWAY LINE IN THE NORTHERN CIRCUIT

675. Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)when construction of a new railway line in the Northern Circuit would commence;

(b)when rehabilitation of the railway line from Mulobezi via Livingstone to all Copperbelt towns would commence; and 

(c)whether the railway line would be extended to the Copperbelt rural towns of Mpongwe, Masaiti and Lufwanyama and, if so, when.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr M. H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the Nseluka/Mpulungu Railway Line is one of the projects the Government wants to work on in the Northern Circuit. Consultation for the feasibility study of the project is currently at procurement stage.

Sir, the Government is currently focusing on the re-capitalisation of the Zambia Railways Limited and K640 million has been released from the Treasury to this effect. The Zambia Railways Limited has since completed the procurement process for the rehabilitation and upgrading of the rail track and modernisation of the rolling stock. These works are scheduled to commence in September, this year. The works are expected to take twenty-four months. This is essentially for the Livingstone to Chililabombwe main line. As for the Mulobezi to Livingstone rail spur, the Government, through the Zambia Railways Limited, undertakes holding maintenance works to ensure the continued operations of this railway section. However, full rehabilitation of this railway section is planned for after the rehabilitation of the main line, which is from Livingstone to Chililabombwe, has been completed.

Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans for the extension of the line from the Copperbelt rural towns of Mpongwe, Masaiti and Luanshya.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, I would like to know whether the hon. Deputy Minister is confirming that the Government will not construct the railway line between Nseluka and Mpulungu despite this being the only port town in our country. Can the hon. Deputy Minister confirm that the Government will not do that before 2016.

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member did not get my answer clearly. There are two questions there. One is about the Nseluka/Mpulungu Railway Line and the other is about some projects being engaged in by Zambia Railways Limited. I said the Nseluka/Mpulungu Project is currently at the feasibility study stage. Having been Permanent Secretary for the Northern Province before, the hon. Member is aware that any big project cannot be undertaken without, first of all, carrying out feasibility studies.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the railway line from Mulobezi to Livingstone is in a very bad state. The hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications at one time, travelled on that railway line. To a large extent, that railway line benefits the people of Kazungula. Why has the PF Government given preference to the other railway lines other than the Mulobezi/Livingstone Railway Line which is actually a death trap?

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, if the PF Government had ignored that railway line, it would not even have been talked about it here. If anything, it seriously wants to work on that railway line. This is why we have said, for now, the money which is available will go towards rehabilitating the main railway line. We are aware that the railway line in question is in a very bad state. That is why we have not stopped putting in place efforts to maintain it. After finishing other projects and raising money, we will definitely work on that railway line. If it was as simple as one plus one, most of these issues could have been attended to, even by the previous governments. The projects we are talking about require money. If resources were permitting, we would work on all the railway lines at a go.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I am concerned that the Government is not committed to rehabilitating and constructing railway lines. In terms of the cost of doing business, we all know that railway transport is cheaper than road transport. Can we be assured that this PF Government is going to show serious commitment to rehabilitating and constructing rail lines.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, when it comes to commitment, there is no government which is as committed as the PF Government. When it comes to working, we are so committed to the extent …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

An assurance was sought and is being made.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I am giving that assurance because I know what is happening. We are committed to give the people of Zambia the services they have always desired to have.

Mr Mwale: How?

Mr Mukanga: We are going to rehabilitate the railway system. I have given the House the programme on how we are going to do that.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, we have noted of late that whenever there is a by-election in a particular area, roads are graded and developmental projects are undertaken for the benefit of the people. We are now aware that there is going to be a by-election in Mulobezi. Why can the Government not repair the rail line in Mulobezi where there is going to be a by-election?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Ti namenikoni boza chabe.

Laughter 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, this Government has a programme for rehabilitating the railway lines. We do not want to start vote buying by carrying out rehabilitation works when there is a by-election in a particular area. We will continue to work according to the plan that we have. No one is going to deter us from forging ahead.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We are going to ensure that we provide the necessary services to the people of Zambia. The people who elected us need social services. We are geared and committed to making sure that we provide these services whether there are by-elections or not.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, Hon. Musenge Mwenya, the hon. Deputy Minister for Copperbelt, travelled to Mulobezi using the Livingstone/Mulobezi Railway Line. However, I am told that, to date, this rail line has not been rehabilitated because things are not as easy as one plus one. In other words, the Government has no money for this project. Could the hon. Minister make me understand how relevant his job is to the people of Mulobezi and Katombola who are using that rail line.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we are very relevant.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Sir, we are the people in power. We are the Government which is going to deliver public services.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Ng’onga: Bwekeshapo!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I am just coming from Kazungula where I had gone to discuss this issue. That is how committed we are. We are trying to ensure that we give the people of Zambia the necessary services. They have been longing for the services which we are talking about for many years. We have come into power and are looking at what will be the best solutions to various problems. Therefore, Zambians should just be patient because we have rolled out programmes that will enable them to get the best services possible.

Thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the commitment which has been made by the hon. Minister. There was an earlier answer given that there is no money to do the railway line in question. What happened to our Eurobond? I thought it was borrowed partly to take care of the railway system.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I think hon. Members ought to follow what is happening. I delivered a ministerial statement to explain that the US$120 million from the Eurobond will be used to rehabilitate the railway line from Livingstone to Chililabombwe. When it comes to the railway line in Mulobezi, we are going to see what we can do to ensure that once the feasibility study is conducted, the repair works are executed.

Thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Sir, I am very encouraged to hear that our Government has programmes for the rail sector in this country, which include construction and rehabilitation works, as stated by the hon. Minister. I would like to find out if, in these plans, there is consideration to construct underground rail systems and tubes as was planned by the former Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Zambia Railways Limited.

Mr Mukanga: Sir, I do not want to talk about the dreams that the former CEO had. What I am talking about are the plans that we have. We are going to look at first rehabilitating the existing rail lines because we believe that we cannot go into other ventures when we know that the current rail system is not efficient. We need to rehabilitate what we have before looking at plans such as the ones which the hon. Member is talking about.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Sir, the hon. Minister is confusing me. He is talking about a feasibility study in Mulobezi, but, in the meantime, he is also saying that the Government is going to rehabilitate what is already in existence. What feasibility study is the hon. Minister taking about in this particular case when we already have a rail line in Mulobezi which has already proved to be very successful in terms of helping the people there? All we are asking for is the rehabilitation of the railway line.

Mr Mukanga: Sir, when it comes to feasibility studies, there are a lot of things we look at.  For example, in the case of the Mulobezi Railway Line, we need to look at its lifespan and gauge whether it is the same with the one from Livingstone to Chililabombwe. We also need to look at how viable the project is and what will be the cost. We know the rail line is there, but we still need to have a proper estimation of the cost levels we will incur when we start working on the project. We need to carry out the necessary feasibility studies so that we execute the job professionally.

Thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, my point of order concerns Professor Chirwa. The hon. Minister has called him a dreamer. However, I wish to state that it takes a dreamer to employ another dreamer.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to call my brother, Professor Clive Chirwa, whom they got from the United Kingdom and is well-educated, a dreamer in this House without evidence? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The point of order is clearly misconceived because it has nothing to do with procedure. This is an attempt to use a point of order to debate and worse still, it is against the convention of the House to discuss individuals. That is a practice which is deprecated.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the Mulobezi Railway Line is in an appalling state and the people there have no alternative transportation. Why does the Government not start with Mulobezi Rail Line in terms of the rehabilitation works?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we will start with the rail line from Livingstone to Chililabombwe because we looked at the feasibility study that was conducted and the cost benefits involved. So, we will start with something that will give us more income before we go into one which will not. We are doing everything we can. Currently, we are providing other social services in Mulobezi. We will continue to provide these services so that we can cater for the people’s needs in the area.

Thank you, Sir

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the hon. Minister for the emphatic and elaborate answers he is giving to this House. This is the way it should be. Now, why should the people of Mulobezi believe his promises when the hon. Member of Parliament for Matero has told us that what they say is just political rhetoric?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Choma Central, do not bring in the hon. Deputy Minister of another portfolio in your question. It is wrong.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the people of Mulobezi should believe that what we are telling them is correct because we are the Government. We are the Executive and have plans to provide them with proper services. In short, we are in charge of development.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mukanga:  Sir, if they want development, they should come to us and we shall give it to them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question! Mulabeja!

PROVISION OF MOTORISED BOATS FOR CHISENGA AND KILWA CLINICS

676.    Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge) asked the Minister of Health when the Government would provide motorised boats to Chisenga and Kilwa clinics in Nchelenge.

Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the Government, through the Ministry of Health, has already provided a marine ambulance which caters for both Kilwa and Chisenga islands for patient referrals. The marine ambulance is stationed at the Nchelenge Harbour.

I thank you, Sir.

NCHELENGE DISTRICT COUNCIL

677.    Mr Mpundu asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    when the vacancies at senior management level at the Nchelenge District Council would be filled; and

(b)    when the Government would assist the council to broaden its revenue base.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) is in the process of filling the vacancies at senior management level at the Nchelenge District Council. During the course of 2013, all the vacancies at senior management level will be filled as the LGSC has already started the recruitment exercise.

Mr Speaker, the Government will continue to implement revenue enhancement measures in all councils through the introduction of appropriate revenue sources. In the meantime, the Nchelenge District Council, like any other council, is receiving the recurrent grant which comprises the salary support and institutional needs component as part of the financing framework for weaker councils.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

CONSTRUCTION OF TRADES TRAINING INSTITUTE IN SESHEKE

678.    Mr Sianga (Sesheke) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when the construction of a trades training institute in Sesheke District, which was budgeted for in the 2012 Budget would begin; and

(b)    how long it would take for the project to be completed.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, in the 2012 Budget, the ministry submitted a request for the development of architectural drawings and tendered documents to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication’s Buildings Department. The documents are expected to be submitted back to the ministry for the awarding of the contract within the second quarter of the year. Works are expected to commence in the third quarter of 2013.

Mr Speaker, works of this nature are expected to be completed over a period of seventy to hundred weeks.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am compelled to raise this point of order, especially that my friend, the hon. Minister of Communication, Works, Supply and Transport, not so long ago, indicated that the people of Mulobezi need to have confidence in the PF Government because it is “in-charge” to quote him. 

Sir, there has been a continuous trend by the PF Government to be oblivious to the fact that ours is a democracy that upholds the spirit of the doctrine of separation of powers, meaning that the Executive, the Legislature and the Judiciary are interdependent. The PF Government is oblivious to the fact that in the absence of this doctrine, the rule of law would be imperiled.  

Mr Speaker, I rise on this very serious point of order quoting the Constitution of the land under Article 93(2) and also largely with reference to the nomination and attempted ratification, sometime last year of the Acting Chief Justice, with due respect to her, Lombe Chibesakunda. There is a lot of unpleasant noise in our society today to the extent that people in certain quarters have indicated a wish to picket her office in order to remind her learned mind that the ratification process of her continuing to be in office could not pass.

Sir, I will quote Article 93(2) as regards the appointment of judges of the Supreme Court where she belongs and it says:

“The judges of the Supreme Court shall, subject to ratification by the National Assembly, be appointed by the President.”

Sir, this ratification process failed. Is this Government in order not to bring another nominee to this House in the same spirit of the doctrine of separation of powers and to allow the hon. Justice Chibesakunda’s name to be dragged into the public domain everyday with negative sentiments? Is it short of people who can occupy that office? Clearly, she is not getting any younger. I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I ruled on this subject not long ago arising out of a point of order which was raised by the hon. Member for Kasenengwa. My direction was that if you wish to seek a response from the Executive on this subject, the easiest and most convenient way is to file a question and this branch of the Government will pass on this question to the other branch so that it can respond. That was my ruling and still remains my position.

The hon. Member for Siavonga may continue.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, the question on the Floor concerns the Budget of 2012. Our Budget Cycle starts in January. The hon. Minister is still waiting for architectural drawings which were supposed to be received by his ministry in the second quarter of the year. Today is the 9th of July, 2013. When is your second quarter ending, hon. Minister?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, we have been informed by the Buildings Department in the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication that it had a backlog of work. We have implored the department to do us a favour because we are behind schedule on the institute to be constructed in Sesheke. Without attempting to answer the question on when the second quarter ends and begins, let me say that the 2013 Budget has an amount which was approved by this August House. As a ministry, we are sorry for the inconvenience we have placed on the Sesheke youths, in particular. However, I wish to add that this project is receiving our utmost attention. We hope that we will execute it this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, may I find out why we should believe the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education on this assurance that it has given us today, when several assurances have been given by the ministry on projects like this one, and also other ones in Lundazi and Senanga, which have not been fulfilled. Today, it is assuring us that it will do something. Why should we believe it when its other assurances have not been fulfilled?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, my assurance regarding the building of an institute in Sesheke is firm, and if you need part of my skin to show that we are serious, …

Laughter

Dr Phiri: … I will avail it. Things have not gone as planned for the project in Sesheke. That is why we intend to correct them as soon as possible.

I thank you, Sir.

WOMEN’S CLUBS IN DUNDUMWEZI

679. Mr Sing’ombe asked the Minister of Gender and Child Development:

(a)how many women’s clubs were founded in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency in 2012; and

(b)why the Ministry had not released the two hammer mills allocated to the constituency in 2011. 

The Deputy Minister of Gender and Child Development (Mrs Banda): Mr Speaker, no women’s groups were funded in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency in 2012 …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mrs Banda: … as they were …

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mrs Banda: Mr Speaker, no women groups were funded in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency in 2012 as there were no applications received from the constituency. In 2013, a total of 337 applications have been received from Kalomo District. However, only twenty applications will be considered from each district across the country this year due to budget limitations. 

Mr Speaker, as you may be aware, the previous approach which was adopted for women economic empowerment projects was supply driven. This meant that the ministry procured equipment such as hammer mills which were then allocated to all parliamentary constituencies in equal numbers. The constituencies then identified the beneficiaries. This created problems such as failure to allocate the equipment to appropriate beneficiaries. In some cases, a number of hammer mills were given to groups of women who did not demand for them. The equipment was just left to deteriorate in the rain. In view of this, the ministry decided to change the approach by requesting the groups of women who were interested in the programme to apply through the Office of the District Commissioner (DC) and were required to clearly indicate what sort of equipment they required in their applications. As a result, all hammer mills which were not collected by September, 2011, were reallocated to groups that requested for them. The Hon. Member of Parliament for Dundumwezi may, therefore, be in a better position to know why he did not collect the other hammer mill at the time it was allocated to his constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, that is a very sad state of affairs. Two weeks ago, I was with Hon. Limata and the hon. Deputy Minister, and I found applications with her Director. How then can this ministry come and say that there were no application forms received from my constituency? Would it consider changing the system? The system during the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Please, ask the question.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, may I know why the womens’ clubs were not given the equipment because I found the application forms with the Director at the ministry.

The Minister of Gender and Child Development (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I am surprised that the hon. Member for Dundumwezi is asking that question because he is at liberty to visit the office and check why the equipment was not delivered. Besides, if the hammer mill in question was not applied for by a specific women’s club in Dundumwezi, it was not going to be sent there by the ministry. 

Secondly, Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to inform the hon. Members on your left to take advantage of their interaction with hon. Ministers to sort out certain things. It is unfortunate that when some of them come to our offices, they are reprimanded by their parties.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mrs Wina: In the process, they lose out.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Are you through, hon. Minister? I am not stopping you from continuing if you are not.

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, I am through.

Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Dundumwezi said that he visited the ministry and interacted with the Director whom he found the forms with. Would it not be better for the hon. Minister to help with the investigations so that an answer that responds to the needs of the people in Dundumwezi can be given.

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, there is no need for investigations because the answer is known. The application forms which the hon. Member saw with our Director were new ones.

Mr Sing’ombe: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Iwe, ikala panshi!

Mr Speaker: Order! Allow the hon. Minister to respond.

Mrs Wina: The forms which the hon. Member saw were new application forms for 2013. The ministry has not started giving out equipment in response to the 2013 application forms. We are still responding to the 2011 and 2012 applications. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, I thank you, …

Mr Sing’ombe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that hon. Members of Parliament are supposed to visit the ministry, and I stated that I visited the ministry. Is the hon. Minister in order to state that we do not visit the ministries? Was I invisible when I visited the ministry in the presence of Hon. Limata? I need your serious ruling.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I do not want the Speaker to constitute a trial for the facts, allegations and counter allegations. I do not think that would be appropriate.

My counsel and ruling is that you should all simply engage. The issues at hand can be resolved through engagement. It is as simple as that.

May the hon. Member for Mapatizya continue, please.

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister made it clear that in 2013, a total of 317 applications forms were received from Kalomo and that only twenty will be considered. What will happen to the 297?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, the number quoted for Kalomo District includes clubs that applied from 2011 to 2013. However, because of the scarcity of resources, we are only able to provide for only twenty women clubs in each district. When funds are available, perhaps, we can increase the number.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, of the many women’s clubs that applied, only twenty qualify. What is the criterion that was used to select the twenty clubs? Is it on the first- come, first-saved basis or what? Maybe as a bonus, I wish to state as a Whip, that my party does not discipline anyone who goes to see hon. Ministers. That is false. 

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, I wonder whether I should respond to the allegation that what I said is false. 

Those who apply first are given priority. That is what we do as a ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, I am aware that a number of womens’ clubs across the country have been funded by the Government. However, the challenge that is there is the return on the investments of the funding given to these womens’ clubs. What specific steps has the ministry taken to ensure that it puts in place serious capacity building programmes that can make the womens’ clubs viable and sustainable in the business activities that they undertake? Currently, it appears as though the women empowerment programmes are social projects without any form of economic returns.

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, the women economic empowerment programmes in our ministry were devised as a social protection measure intended to cushion women from the impact of the vulnerability which is experienced by a lot of them in the country. Through such programmes, the Government also wanted to respond to the high levels of inequality in our country. It must be emphasised that the majority of the vulnerable people are women, especially in rural ones. That is why we have put in place empowerment programmes for them. 

Sir, as a Government, we are putting in place measures to ensure that these women graduate from the small grants given to them to start their own businesses. There is a capacity building programme which we are undertaking in collaboration with some civil society organisations (CSOs).

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, regarding the hon. Minister’s response that this is a social protection measure, would she be in a position, therefore, to differentiate it with a subsidy. Has  the Government maintained certain subsidies while discontinuing others? 

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, subsidies come in many guises because the Government has the responsibility to take care of its own people. Where there are cases of vulnerability, the Government has to respond. Grants to women’s groups are one form of subsidies and so are the bursaries that we give to students at the university. There is no way that you can compare that to the fuel subsidy which was benefiting the large mining companies and other big institutions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Gender and Child Development sent auditors to audit the distribution of these hammer mills countrywide, specifically to the Southern Province. Will the audit findings be released to us?

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, if the information is requested for we shall offer it gladly.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, would it not be prudent for the ministry to buy or secure equipment for the constituencies and then giving the hon. Members of Parliament to take to their respective constituencies like the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) used to do? 

Mrs Wina: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member listened to the answer carefully, she would have not asked that question. She would have also heard that what used to happen under the system which was being used by the previous Government was not good. Under that system, hon. Members collected the hammers and gave some to party members and relatives. Clearly, some of the items were not reaching the intended beneficiaries. As a result, we requested that the clubs should apply to the ministry for whatever equipment or items they wanted. We seem to have moved away from hammer mills because a lot of clubs are asking for equipment to help them rare chickens, pigs, goats, cattle or the growing of vegetables. The programme has expanded from the provision of hammer mills only. This is our system and we feel it is working better than what prevailed in the past.

I thank you, Sir. 

NUMBER OF NATIONAL REGISTRATION CARDS ISSUED IN CHILUBI

   680. Mr Bwalya asked the Minister of Home Affairs how many national registration cards (NCRs) were issued in Chilubi District from 2009 to 2012, year by year.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, a total of 14,845 NRCs were issued by the Department of the National Registration, Passport and Citizenship in Chilubi District during the period 2009 to 2012. 

Mr Speaker, the analysis year by year is tabulated as follows:

Year    NRCs Issued from 2009 to 2012

2009.6153

2010.5774

2011.2663

2012.  255

                      Grand Total             14,845

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to raise a point of order. As you know, I rarely stand on points of order. I pray that you sustain my point of order.

Sir, the first person who spoke after the hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development was Hon. Bwalya. So, I might be out of time, but I believe the Speaker will look at this issue critically. 

Hon. Mucheleka: Which one?

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development in order to have made a blanket kind of statement that the MMD gave the hammer mills to relatives and party members?

Mr Speaker, you know that the MMD is a very respectable party.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: Now you are imparting knowledge into Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, these statements that we make here have repercussions out there because the general populace is listening to our debates in this House. 

Mr Speaker, you are aware that even our colleagues from the PF and United Party for National Development (UPND) who had the means of collecting these items were given the opportunity. However, for her to single out the MMD, as a party that was so irresponsible, sends the wrong message. Is she in order to portray that picture without laying the facts on the Table?

Mr Speaker: My understanding of the statement by the hon. Minister was that some hon. Members of Parliament …

Mr Mbewe: Only the MMD?

Mr Speaker: … did not properly account for the hammer mills. I think we should leave it at that. That is the information that is held by the hon. Minister.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, Chilubi has quite a number of swampy areas which cause a problem for people to access various services. May I know whether we will see a revival of the mobile NRC registration service so that the people can be afforded a chance to have NRCs?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, plans are there by the Government to restart the mobile registration services. I am happy that the hon. Member of Parliament for that area is now the Provincial Minister for the Northern Province. We will make sure we work hand in hand with him to serve the people of Chilubi.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Sir, in Chilubi, like many other rural places in Zambia, people have had difficulties to obtain NRCs.

Mr Speaker, when will these mobile services for the registration of voter’s cards begin for Chilubi and Mutete? People there are growing up without NRCs. 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, did you refer to voters’ cards?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: It appears we are at cross purposes, hon. Member. We are discussing a different subject. 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I meant NRCs.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the question from Hon. Bwalya is very specific. I would not want to digress and start providing answers to questions which we are not ready for.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Choma Central to raise this very important point of order. When you ask the hon. Deputy Minister to respond to a question, it means that he is duty bound to take heed of your directive. Is the hon. Deputy Minister in order to refuse to answer a question after your guidance that he should do so? Is he in order to defiantly state that he is not willing to answer certain questions? 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

My ruling is, whether it was a slip of the tongue or otherwise, the hon. Member for Lukulu West was referring to voters’ cards while the question at hand is refering to the provision of NRCs for Chilubi, to be specific, in terms of geographical limitation. That is all. Otherwise, I do not think the hon. Deputy Minister would want not to respond to questions. The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, Luwingu District and, Lubansenshi Constituency in particular, borders Chilubi. The hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs said that his ministry will work hand in hand with the hon. Deputy Minister for Northern Province to facilitate the issuance of NRCs in the province. Given that the hon. Deputy Minister for Northern Province is on record of having threatened to withhold development to Lubansenshi Constituency, in particular, …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mucheleka: … can the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs also confirm that he will do everything possible to deny the people of Lubansenshi Constituency from being issued with NRCs. 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

This is time for supplementary questions. I think let us keep it that way. 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, the question from the hon. Member for Lubansenshi is very clear. 

Mr Speaker: Lupososhi.

Mr Sing’ombe: Sorry, I wanted to say the hon. Member for Lupososhi. The hon. Minister has only talked about Green NRCs. I want to know why he has decided not to talk about the pink ones when they are also NRCs. 

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, once again, I agree with the hon. Member that the question from the hon. Member for Lupososhi is very clear and specific. The figures I have given for the NRCs are accurate. We have not issued any Pink NRCs in Chilubi. That is why I did not see any need to refer to them even though they are also our national identity cards.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

FUNDING FOR STAFF DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMMES AT PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES

681. Mr Chungu asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education how much money was allocated to staff development programmes at the following institution from 2005 to 2012:

(a)University of Zambia;

(b)Copperbelt University;

(c)Nkrumah University College;

(d)Chalimbana University; and

(e)Mukuba University.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this House that the Government has no immediate plans to rehabilitate infrastructure at the universities in question by the end of 2014. The Government will consider rehabilitation of the said institutions when funds are made available. You may, however, wish to know that …

Mr P. Ngoma looked for a written answer.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Are you through? 

Laughter

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I apologise for that. 

Sir, the resources allocated to staff development at the universities are from Government grants and internally generated sources.

University of Zambia

Sir, for the period of 2005 to 2012, a total of K42,686,620 was allocated to staff development programmes.

Copperbelt University

Mr Speaker, for the period of 2005 to 2012, a total of K24,362,295 was allocated to staff development programmes.

Nkrumah University College

Sir, for the period of 2005 to 2012, a total amount of K147,626 was allocated to staff development programmes.

Chalimbana University

Sir, for a period of 2005 to 2012, there were no resources allocated to staff development programmes.

Mukuba University

Mr Speaker, for the period of 2005 to 2012, a total amount of K285,850 was allocated to staff development programmes at the institution. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: Ema Ministers aba!

Mr P. Ngoma forgot to turn off the microphone.

Hon. Opposition Members: Boma!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I think that the hon. Deputy Minister forgot to switch off the microphone because he has been absent from the House. Can I ask the hon. Deputy Minister whether he has been following the proceedings from 1430 hours when we sat here for him to have started responding to a question that was not even asked?

Mr Speaker: Any other question?

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the money allocated to the staff development programmes is given to those who go for further studies and if, on their return, they are bonded to these universities or they are free to go for greener pastures.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, for those who have not had the privilege of being associated with university education, I wish to explain to them that the staff development programmes are run by the universities under their councils. The hon. Deputy Minister indicated that these monies are gotten from the little grants that the Government gives and are also internally generated resources. Each university has policies surrounding staff development. In a nutshell, most universities have a bonding period. When a student is sponsored at home or abroad, they are given specific guidelines to observe.

I thank you, Sir

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, what Mukuba University does, because we do not know about it.

Mr Speaker: What is the question?

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, what is Mukuba University and where is it?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, that is a very valid question. The current situation is that Mukuba, Chalimbana and Kwame Nkrumah universities have not yet been operationalised. The Government has just given the ministry the budget authority to go ahead to constitute what one would refer to as the main pillars of a university. These include the council as well as written statutory instruments (SIs) that will legally say that the old colleges of education have now been turned into universities. However, let me add that Mukuba University is the former Copperbelt Teacher Training College and Kwame Nkrumah University still maintains the same name. For now, these institutions are being supervised by UNZA. However, we are hoping that this year, we can fully transform these institutions into universities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, I note from the response given by the hon. Deputy Minister that there was no allocation made to Chalimbana University for staff development programmes. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why Chalimbana University had no allocation and yet there was a greater need to upgrade some of the staff there to fit into the new university college set-up.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I just explained that Chalimbana, Mukuba and Kwame Nkrumah universities are in the meantime evolving into universities. This means that they have no councils running them yet. I said that the Government has given us Treasury authority to go ahead and turn them into universities. Mukuba and Kwame Nkrumah universities conducted their staff development activities under the supervision of UNZA. Chalimbana University has just been born, and has no programme in place. Therefore, it was difficult for any other institution to supervise a programme of that nature there.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister was probably attending to other national issues last week. In this House, we were told that there was another upcoming university in the North-Western Province, to be specific in Solwezi which has been given this name, Mukuba, and that this name has been cleared by the Patents and Companies Registration Authority (PACRA). Are we going to have one name for two universities in the same country?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I am hesitate to answer that question because I am yet to get the full details of what was discussed last week. However, I can assure Hon. Mbulakulima that the situation which he has described is not beyond redemption.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

RITUAL KILLINGS

682. Mr Matafwali asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)      what measures the Government had taken to curb cases of ritual killings in the   
      country;

(b)      how many taxi drivers were killed from January, 2011, to April, 2013; and

(c)    from which parts of Zambia the killings took place;
  
The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mrs Mwamba): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Zambia Police, has taken the following measures to curb cases of ritual killings in the country:
(i)police have intensified foot and motorised patrols countrywide;

(ii)police have embarked on sensitisation programmes targeted at the general public especially taxi drivers by advising them not to accept offers of food and drinks from their clients and not to accept exorbitant payments for distances that are short or just reasonable distances;

(iii)taxi drivers have been encouraged to reduce on night operations;

(iv)all car owners have been encouraged to reduce on driving alone at night;

(v)taxi drivers have been advised to make their cars identifiable at night;

(vi)all car owners have been advised to install vehicle tracking devices; and 

(vii)pirate taxi drivers have been advised to register their vehicles with the Road Transport and Safety (RTSA).

Sir, from January, 2011, to April, 2013, the numbers of taxi drivers killed were as follows:
    
            Year                                Number of Taxi Drivers Killed
    2011      5
    2012    18
    2013      2
    
    Total    25

Mr Speaker, the following are the areas in which the killings took place:
    
             Province    Year      Number of taxi drivers killed
    
            Copperbelt    2011    3
        2012    9
        2013    0
    Central    2011    0
        2012    5
        2013    0
    Southern    2011    0
        2012    2
        2013    0
    Western     2011    0    
        2012    0
        2013    0
    Lusaka    2011    0
        2012    1
        2013    2
    Eastern    2011    0
        2012    1    
        2013    0
    Luapula    2011    0
        2012    0
        2013    0
    North-Western     2011    0
        2012    0
        2013    0
    Northern    2011    1
        2012    0
        2013    0
    Muchinga    2011    1
        2012    0
        2013    0
    Total                          25

I thank you, Mr Speaker.
    
Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister stated that police have intensified foot and motorised patrols across the country. 

Is this information factual or simply for the benefit of this question? In Sikalongo Ward, in Choma Constituency …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Put your question across and end there. 

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, what measures have been put in place in Sikalongo Ward, where ritual killings are also taking place? I had a meeting last weekend with the police …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, do you want to supply an answer?

 Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Deputy Minister, you may respond.

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, police have intensified both foot and motorised patrols. In areas where there are few vehicles, foot patrols have been intensified. I believe that police are doing this exercise in the area that the hon. Member is talking about. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, yesterday in Senanga District, where we have challenges of transport, fuel and inadequate manpower, some boys were found with a human skull, teeth and pubic hair. Does the hon. Deputy Minister still insist that patrols have been intensified? 

Laughter 

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, although that is a relatively new question, I would like to say that in areas where there are challenges of transport, fuel or whatever logistical problems, the provincial commissioner’s office is supposed to render support. 

I thank you, Sir.

NCHELENGE STATE PRISON

683. Mr Mpundu asked the Minister of Home Affairs when the Government would undertake the following at Nchelenge State Prison:

(a)expand the facility;

(b)provide more staff accommodation;

(c)provide transport to ferry prisoners to and from the prison farm; and

(d)procure mattresses, blankets and catering utensils for the inmates.

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there is no scheduled date for the commencement of expansion works at Nchelenge State Prison. However, all district prisons are earmarked for renovations and expansion, as there is money for that in the 2013 Budget.

Sir, the Ministry of Home Affairs is in the process of constructing 1,593 housing units for the Zambia Prisons Service countrywide. The Nchelenge State Prison will be a beneficiary of this housing exercise. 

Further, the Ministry of Home Affairs, through the Zambia Prisons Service, has a budget line for the procurement of motor vehicles in the 2013 budget and Nchelenge State Prison is among the beneficiaries. 

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Prisons Service last year procured blankets and uniforms which were distributed countrywide as well as 1,500 mattresses for Mwembeshi Prison only.

Sir, the House may wish to know that the procurement of logistical requirements for all state prisons is done when budgeted for in that particular year. Therefore, logistical requirements for Nchelenge State Prison will be budgeted for in the 2014 financial year. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that there is a programme to rehabilitate all prisons and housing units in all districts. 

Sir, Kasempa Prison is one of the most dilapidated prisons. I am sure the former Home Affairs Minister, Hon. Sakeni, who visited it some time back, can agree with me. Is the hon. Deputy Minister promising that they will bring to this House a schedule indicating which prisons will be rehabilitated and which ones will have new housing units?

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, that is a request that can be considered. 

I thank you, Sir. 

SENDING OF AGRICULTURAL EXTENSION AND VETERINARY OFFICERS TO DUNDUMWEZI CONSTITUENCY

684. Mr Sing’ombe asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when the Government would send agricultural extension officers and veterinary officers to Kasukwe and Chilala in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Speaker, camp extension officers will be sent to Kasukwe and Chilala camps once the recruitment process currently, taking place is concluded by the Public Service Commission. The hon. Member and, indeed, the House may wish to know that, currently, Kasukwe and Chilala camps are serviced by an officer from Munyeke, a nearby camp. 

Further, it should be noted that veterinary officers are based at district and not camp level. Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency falls under Kalomo District, which has a veterinary officer. Veterinary camps are manned by veterinary assistants. Kasukwe and Chilala are veterinary camps. 

Mr Speaker, veterinary assistants will be sent to the two camps after the recruitment process has been completed. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, there was a female veterinary assistant posted to Kasukwe. Accommodation and other logistics were put in place, but it has been three months now and we have not seen her. I would like to find out why the lady has delayed. 

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, it is normal for officers to be moved around at the ministry so that pressing needs are met. It could be that the lady in question was sent to run another camp which was not manned. I wish to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Dundumwezi that after the recruitment exercise is complete, Kasukwe and Chilala camps, which are not manned at the moment, will have veterinary assistants. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the recruitment exercise seems to be continuous. When will the exercise be completed? 

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, this recruitment exercise is under the jurisdiction of the Public Service Commission and as such, it is not possible for us at the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to give an indicative date as to when the process will be completed but, certainly, it will be this year.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF FILLING STATION IN KABOMPO

685. Mr Lufuma asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development whether the Government had any plans to facilitate the construction of a filling station in Kabompo District in 2014.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to construct a filling station in Kabompo District. However, the Government will carry out an assessment during the course of the year to establish which districts will be eligible for the construction of filling stations in 2014. Kabompo District, like other districts, will be considered in the assessments.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I am reliably informed by legal experts that …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Continue!

Mr Lufuma: … the purchase of fuel, that is diesel and petrol, from suppliers to selling points is illegal. If that is the case, what is the hon. Deputy Minister’s advice on how the various departments and businesses in Kabompo District are supposed to operate without fuel?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, we have answered this question before. Of course, there are so many districts that have no filling stations in the country. The problem could be accessibility to these places or a lack of economic activities in those areas. You see what I mean? So, what is important here is that, as the Government, we have a programme of putting up two filling stations annually. However, as hon. Member of Parliament, you also have a right, and there are laws that can guide you, to have a filling station constructed in your constituency by engaging the private sector. I think we have said this so many times. I also have a constituency. I took someone who is running a filling station in Kitwe and we went to Mwami Border in my constituency. He carried out his own assessment and I am just waiting for results. So, it is up to all of us Members of Parliament, who need these facilities in our areas, to engage the private sector.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, putting up a filling station is quite expensive.

Mr Chitotela: Walikuula kale ikala panshi.

Mr Chisanga: As a Government, do you have plans to give incentives to those who want to put up filling stations in rural areas like Kabompo?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, yeah, as a Government, …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Deputy Minister, just mind your language. 

Mr C. Zulu: My language?

Mr Speaker: Yes. A lot of colloquialism is creeping in.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Please, just mind your language.

Mr C. Zulu: Mr Speaker, this is a liberalised economy, okay?

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: Continue, please.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, Zambia has a liberalised economy. Thus, if one wants to put up a filling station, he or she can engage the banks. You can go to a bank, get a loan and put up a filling station.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that every year, the Government budgets for two service stations. I would like to know which districts, if any, it has taken the two service stations to, for this year.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank my sister for that question. The two filling stations for this year are going to Mporokoso …

Mr Speaker: Address her as hon. Member. I think that is the more acceptable appellation.

Mr Zulu: Sir, the construction of two filling stations is at procurement stage. These two filling stations will be in Mporokoso and Luwingu.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Back Benchers: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, under the MMD, there was a programme, through the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, in which the Government engaged the Citizen’s Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) and Energy Regulation Board (ERB), to promote the construction of filling stations in the country. That programme entailed that you could borrow money from the CEEC and with the help of the ERB, you could build a filling station. Is that programme still on or it has been cancelled?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I will not talk about how the MMD used to do things. I will restrict myself to the programme which we have embarked on which is to build two filling stations a year.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, is it the Government’s policy to start doing business?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the two filling stations that we will be putting up annually will be given to Zambians. It is not the Government that will be running these filling stations. They will be handed over to Zambians.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chitotela: Sydney Chisanga is one of them.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the question by the Mkushi South Member of Parliament is an important one. We know that this is a liberalised economy to the extent that when you go into business, you need to make profits. By putting up a filling station in far-flung places, let us take Chavuma for instance, one would be incurring enormous costs. I know that at the moment, the profits that these Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) are making are very minimal. Thus, the Government must provide incentives which will encourage companies to go and set up filling stations in far-flung areas. Is the Government providing incentives for those OMCs which would want to set up filling stations in far-flung areas like it does for commercial banks? We know that there are incentives for commercial banks that would want to open branches in rural areas.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, this Government has maintained the uniform fuel pricing mechanism …

Mr Nkombo: Pump prices.

Mr Zulu: … which entails that, someone who is in Chadaza and another one who is in Ndola will pay the same amount for fuel. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the answer that was earlier given by the hon. Deputy Minister with regard to Luwingu and Mporokoso. I am also aware that there was an advert regarding the construction of a filling station in Luwingu that was carried in the media last year. I would like to know when exactly the construction of the filling station in Luwingu is expected to commence.

Mr Mufalali: On a point of Order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the question from the hon. Member for Kasempa was whether there were incentives for those wishing to put up filling stations, and had nothing to do with the uniform fuel pricing mechanism. Are there incentives given for those wishing to invest in filling stations in far-flung areas? Is the hon. Minister in order to start telling us about …

Mr Speaker: You have raised your point of order. That is enough.

Hon. Minister, as you respond to the question by the hon. Member for Lubansenshi, bear the point of order which has been raised by Hon. Mufalali in mind.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, what I know is that, as a businessman, you have to put up your own plans. I am a businessman, and I have my own business plans. If you need incentives, you can go to the banks and borrow money.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Zulu: Yes. The other point is that the incentive that we are talking about here is …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

He is on the Floor.

Hon. Opposition Members interjected.

Mr Speaker: He is on the Floor nonetheless.

Mr Zulu: Sir, the uniform pricing mechanism is an incentive. Those who want to open up filling stations should just go to the banks to borrow money.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Mbulakulima.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Sorry, the question from the hon. Member for Lubansenshi has not been answered. Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, could you repeat your question.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I am aware that, late last year, there was an advert with regard to the construction of filling stations in Luwingu and Mporokoso. The hon. Minister in his answer has also indicated that, indeed, Luwingu and Mporokoso will be considered this year. Exactly at what stage is this process?  When can the actual construction of the filling stations be expected to commence in Mporokoso and Luwingu?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, what I said earlier on was that the procurement process is on. As soon as we are through with this process, works will commence.

I thank you, Sir.

___________ {mospagebreak}

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON DELEGATED LEGISLATION

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Delegated Legislation …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mweetwa: … for the Second Session of the Eleventh National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 24th June, 2013.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mweetwa: Sir, in accordance with its terms of reference, your Committee scrutinised all the statutory instruments (SIs) presented to it and ensured that they were in conformity with the respective principal legislation. Your Committee, being the oversight organ of delegated legislation, strived to ensure that Parliament’s delegation of powers to other authorities or persons to make orders, regulations, rules, sub-rules and by-laws are being exercised properly. Your Committee also requested for explanatory memoranda from ministries and other bodies which issued SIs which were presented to the Committee.

Let me now make specific comments on some of the SIs considered by your Committee. One item which your Committee considered relates to SI No. 64 of 2012, the Liquor Licensing (Permitted Hours) Regulations, 2012. This SI was preceded by SI No. 96, 2011, which was revoked following complaints from stakeholders regarding the implementation challenges. Under SI No. 96, 2011, the operating hours for most liquor outlets were from 1400 hours to 2200 hours. However, SI No. 64, 2012 changed the operating hours from 1000 hours to 2200 hours.

During its tours of selected liquor outlets on the Copperbelt Province to assess the adherence to the SI, your Committee learnt that it was not being adhered to. Liquor outlets opened very early in the morning and only closed after midnight or when no one was left standing. Councils are finding it difficult to enforce the SI because the number of illegal bars was overwhelming in comparison to the council police’s manpower. Councils have tried to sensitise the general public on the SI, but have still not yielded the desired results. Bottle stores have also joined in the scourge, as contrary to the law, patrons are consuming alcohol from their premises.

Your Committee also undertook an on-the-spot check of some illegal liquor outlets at Chisokone Market in Kitwe and found out that these had no fixed opening or closing times. In view of this, your Committee strongly recommends that the Government employs more council police who can work in conjunction with the State police to enforce the SI in terms of the opening and closing hours of liquor outlets as well as rooting out the illegal bars …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

There are too many running conversations.

Mr Mweetwa: … in markets and compounds.

Sir, your Committee observes that the prescribed opening time of 1000 hours is counterproductive as it promotes underage drinking and attracts certain public workers to drink during working hours. Your Committee is concerned with the high rate of unproductivity in the country which is partly attributed to the consumption of alcohol, especially by the youths. Your Committee, therefore, also recommends that the SI should be amended to revise the opening hours to a later time than the morning.

Mr Speaker, with regard to SI No. 47, 2012, the Minimum Wages and Conditions of Employment (Shop Workers) Amendment Order, 2012, your Committee notes that this SI is well intended, although there has been some resistance from some employers to implement it. Your Committee observes that the Government is failing to ensure that the SI is enforced due to a lack of adequate labour inspectors and labour officers in the Ministry of Labour and Social Security.

Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government should, as a matter of urgency, undertake an evaluation of the vacancies in the Ministry of Labour and Social Security with a view to filling them. This is the only way the Government will ensure that the employers comply with the SI.

Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that your Committee undertook a benchmarking study tour to Ghana in an effort to learn how other jurisdictions handle the delegated legislation portfolio and also share best practices as far as delegated legislation is concerned. Arising from this, your Committee observes that the issuance of delegated legislation by various authorities in this country without the involvement of your Committee in the initial process has reduced your Committee to be a mere spectator.

Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government, through the Ministry of Justice, initiates the enactment of a legal framework which will ensure that your Committee is involved in the initial stages of preparing delegated legislation so as to enable your Committee to have an input before the delegated legislation is enforced. Your Committee also observes that the delegated legislation which is issued by the Executive, whether legislative or administrative in nature, takes effect without input from your Committee. This is a discomforting state of affairs.

Your Committee, therefore, recommends, as a matter of urgency, that the necessary legal framework be put in place so that all delegated legislation issued by the Executive, which is legislative in nature, be scrutinised by your Committee before it is enforced.

Sir, your Committee observes with concern the delay to submit explanatory memoranda by most ministries and other authorities to Parliament. In some instances, your Committee has considered SIs six months or even more after their enforcement due to the late submission of explanatory memoranda. You may wish to note, Sir, that in the session under review, Parliament received a total of ninety-four SIs, but only considered twenty-one which were the only ones accompanied by explanatory memoranda. 

Sir, you may wish to note that the Secretary to Cabinet was summoned to appear before your Committee to explain the reasons for the delay in the submission of SIs and explanatory memoranda by various ministries and other authorities. Your Committee regrets that the delay to submit SIs and explanatory memoranda was as a result of a lack of adherence to procedures by the responsible ministries and other authorities. 

Your Committee, therefore, recommends, as a matter of urgency, that the Government ensures that explanatory memoranda are submitted as and when the SIs are gazetted. This will also enable your Committee to consider the SIs on time. Failure to do so will leave your Committee with no option, but to recommend the cancellation of the SIs and explanatory memoranda submitted late.

Mr Speaker, finally, I wish to express your Committee members’ gratitude to you for appointing them to oversee the portfolio of delegated legislation and for your wise counsel during the year. Your Committee is also grateful to the Permanent Secretaries and other witnesses who appeared before it and submitted explanatory memoranda explaining the SIs which were issued.

Sir, your Committee further wishes to thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to it during the year.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, now.

Mr Speaker, I wish to second the Motion which has been ably moved by the Chairperson of your Committee. I will restrict my comments to matters that were not highlighted by the mover.

Sir, your Committee observes that the role of stakeholders in the delegated legislation portfolio cannot be overemphasised. The issuance of delegated legislation by various authorities without due consideration of the interested parties can be a source of conflict and misunderstanding, if not properly handled. A case in point is SI No. 23 of 2012 – the Liquor Licensing (Intoxicating Liquor) (Quantities and Packaging) Regulations 2012 which was issued to regulate the packaging of intoxicating liquor in plastics in compliance with Section 53 of the Liquor Licensing Act No. 20 of 2011. This SI provides for the recommended packaging of the various types of liquor. Further, the SI prohibits the manufacturing and importation of certain intoxicating liquor such as tujilijili. 

Sir, since a number of stakeholders were not consulted in the initial process prior to the issuance of this SI, a number of affected manufacturers have since sued the Government for the loss they incurred as a result of the implementation of this SI. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government and other authorities charged with the power to issue delegated legislation involve the relevant stakeholders before the issuance of any delegated legislation in order to take stoke of their concerns.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also observes that the current mode of operation of your Committee, as regards its sittings to consider delegated legislation, is compromising the full utilisation of its mandate as outlined in the Standing Orders. Your Committee recommends that its sittings be structured in such a way that they are in sync with the issuance of delegated legislation. 

Mr Speaker, lastly, allow me to thank you and the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance rendered to your Committee during its deliberations. Allow me also to thank the members of your Committee for giving me this opportunity to second this important Motion.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to debate the Motion that is before us and was ably moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central. Since he is my young brother, I have no choice, but to support this Motion.

Mr Speaker: I think that is a wrong premise.

Laughter

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, your Committee has raised very important and fundamental issues with regard to delegated legislation. As I support this Motion, allow me to just make a few observations. 

Sir, the Chairperson has said that there are difficulties in the implementation of some of the SIs. I want to agree with your Committee that something fundamentally different must be done to improve the way SIs are implemented. Let us take, for example, the SI on the minimum wage. I am not sure how we expect it to be effectively implemented when, in certain instances, you have one labour office in a whole province. That is already a recipe for some of the SI to be ignored or not to be implemented. 

I think that before the SIs are issued, it is important for the Executive to take into account how they will be implemented. The SIs to do with the operations of the councils or local authorities can also provide us with other examples. For example, the implementation of the SI on the operating hours of the liquor businesses is proving to be a challenge. The reason is very simple. It is because the SI was issued probably without due consideration of how it was going to be implemented. 

Sir, I would also like to draw your attention to the fact that some of the SIs appear to be very segregative, hence, at times, the reluctance by the implementing agencies and members of the public to respect them. A good example is the SI banning the drinks that are popularly known as tujilijili. I do not know the correct name. We have read in your report that while these substances have been banned, this SI did not take into account the investment that was made by the small scale investors in this sector. A number of them were destroyed without regard to the little investment that ordinary people had put in them.  

What is even more worrying is the fact that the equivalent of these drinks can still be bought on aeroplanes and in hotels. In essence, to a common person, the interpretation is that this SI is targeted at those that are at the lower end of our economy. What that means in practical terms is that I can walk into a hotel, fill my pockets with tujilijili, go on the street and consume them, while somebody else will be watching because he has been banned from taking tujilijili on the street. Somebody can be on an aeroplane and when he or she alights, he or she can come with extra sachets of similar drinks. Therefore, I think that, at some point, we need to begin to reconcile our legislation and look at the implications. We need to correct the interpretation of certain SIs to a common person on the street. I think that this is very important.

Mr Speaker, I have observed that some of the SIs deal with issues which should ordinarily be brought for debate here because of the nature of the consequences which they have on the economy and the general citizenry in the country. The currency regulations are good examples. My appeal to the Executive is that it should not use the guise of SIs to make laws which should ordinarily be brought for debate and wider consultations on the Floor of the House. I think that we are facing problems to implement the legislation regarding the minimum wage because of a lack of consultations. According to your report, we have been told that while the Labour Office had in place collective bargaining agreements with establishments such as Shoprite, the Government still went ahead and issued an SI on the minimum wage. What that means is that the people who are implementers and those who want to obey these SIs are put in a quandary. They do not know what they must respect. This is what makes us wonder whether the Government has coherent policies. Given the example of Shoprite, we have been made to understand that while this SI was being drafted, there was very minimal consultation and at the same time, there was an existing collective bargain agreement. That gives a very contradictory picture. Therefore, I think we need to begin to reconcile certain matters when it comes to the implementation and eventual operationalisation of SIs.

Mr Speaker, I also want to underscore the point that the Chairperson of the Committee has highlighted, that the consideration of these SIs by your Committee is just an academic exercise to some extent. This is because they are brought at a time when they have already been implemented. The statistics which were given by the Chairperson shade a very dark cloud on these SIs. It begins to make us question the motive of these SIs. I think that we need to begin to consider seriously some of the matters which were raised by your Committe.

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about the SI which talks about the recognition of chiefs. I want to highlight the fact that SIs must not be used to usurp the correct electoral colleges of these chiefdoms and citizens. Lately, we have begun to think that probably these SIs are being used to usurp the power of the people to choose their correct traditional leaders. For example, there is a situation whereby one chief is recognised, while the matter of the other contender to the throne is still in the courts of law. Such incidents will make us start questioning the intentions of the SIs which are being crafted by the Government.

Mr Speaker, I think that your report has highlighted very fundamental issues which question very important matters. I urge the Executive to take some of these matters very seriously because of the far-reaching implications that they have.

Mr Speaker, I submit that I support the report wholly for the reasons I gave earlier, and most importantly, because this is your Committee.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Of course. 

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate of this very important Report of the Commitee on Delegated Legislation.

Mr Speaker, I will pick up this debate from where Hon. Belemu left. Hon. Belemu highlighted a number of issues surrounding liquor licensing. I wish to add to what he said regarding SI No. 23. This SI has not achieved the intended results. The desire was to ban the tujilijili so that we save our young people from dying after taking that type of liquor excessively. However, what has happened in effect, is that after we punished our street vendors and other small-scale traders by confiscating their sachets of tujilijili and banning them without compensation, the manufacturers who where also banned from producing tujilijili were suddenly allowed to produce the same contents in tujilijili, but now packaged in small bottles. These have become legal and are being sold on the streets. Just last week, I was in Chawama Compound, the constituency of the Home Affairs hon. Minister, were I was attending the funeral of a relative. I found that people there were drinking tujilijili which are now packed in small bottles instead of sachets.

Hon. Malama: And you bought some.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I was wondering what the SI was trying to achieve when people are still drinking the tujilijili. Actually, the word ‘officers’ is written on the bottles. That word was the name of tujilijili which were in sachets before the SI came into effect. Now it is ‘officers’ in small bottles.

Hon. Kalaba: Where did you find them?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, they are all over. When we issue SIs, they must be well thought out so that when we start implementing them, they will achieve the desired results.

Mr Speaker, I also note that this report also talked about a number of SIs which were issued in order to create new districts and councils. Again, it appears that the development of these SIs and the creation of these districts and councils was done without following the correct procedure. The creation of these districts was not done after consulting stakeholders and, as a result, we have had problems in the demarcation of the boundaries as well as the acceptance of these districts in some cases. What was supposed to happen was that if a district was to be created, the local people should have been consulted first. They should have made their comments and then the councils should have sat to pass a resolution which should have ended up with Cabinet Office. Afterwards, Cabinet was supposed to advise the President whether or not to gazette or declare a district. This has not been done. Things have been done the wrong way or upside down. The President first declared the creation of a district and then we rushed to formalise it with an SI. 

  Sir, this has not only created conflicts in many areas, but has also led to financial difficulties. A Budget overrun has been created by the Central Government because most of the districts were not budgeted for. We have been forcing the Treasury to meet the costs of paying salaries and other administrative expenses which were not planned for and whose budgets were not approved by this Parliament. This should not be allowed in future. The correct thing must be done so that Parliament budgets for all the district councils in order for them to be smoothly run.

Sir, I also wish to talk about SI No. 32 which has been discussed in the report. This SI was issued to enable the Zambezi River Authority to charge fees for use of the Kariba Dam Wall by drivers of light motor vehicles, heavy motor vehicles regulations and vehicles carrying abnormal loads or buses. This is an important SI because there is a need to levy motor vehicles passing through the Kariba Dam Wall. I am disturbed by media reports that cracks are now developing on the Kariba Dam Wall and that the Zambezi River Authority has indicated that it has no money to repair them. This is a very worrying situation. Imagine what would happen if the dam wall collapsed. What would be the effect on Zambia and other countries that are downstream like Mozambique? If the dam wall collapsed, the operations of many industries would be affected.  For example, the tourism and fishing industries in the area would collapse. Another effect would be that most settlements down the Zambezi River would be washed away. I think the Government needs to seriously look at this issue and take corrective measures rather than raise money through the dam without attending to the wall itself.

Mr Speaker, lastly, I want to refer to SIs No. 33 and 78 which are Bank of Zambia (BoZ) regulations on currency. Let me begin by giving you a scenario which I heard about while in Uganda on a parliamentary tour. When we met one of the ministers in Uganda, she told your Committee that she was very shocked with the new regulations in Zambia concerning the currency. She said that she flew to Lusaka for a Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) meeting and checked into a hotel in the night. The hotel in which she checked into could not accept the United States Dollars she wanted to pay in. They wanted her to pay in kwacha. She told them that she had just arrived from Kampala and did not have kwacha, but dollars. 

Sir, such incidents are embarrassing. The BoZ regulations must be reasonable. They must be couched in such a way that they take into account the different circumstances which obtain in the various sectors of the economy. Obviously, sectors such as tourism should have been taken into account when designing these SIs so that visitors to this country are not subjected to unnecessary inconveniences and embarrassment.

Mr Speaker, such SIs also show that this Government has no respect for this Parliament when it comes to making laws. A person who does not follow these same regulations can be imprisoned for up to ten years. However, in the original Bank of Zambia Act which was passed by this House, there is no such thing. What powers does the Executive have to issue such SIs which can lead to citizens being imprisoned?

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear! Who gave them that power!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, who gave them that power? The power to imprison people lies with this Parliament. It should not be put in the hands of the Government through the issuance of SIs. If somebody wants to rent my house, and I ask for US$500, I will be imprisoned for ten years because I quoted in dollars. Such abuses of power should not be allowed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, it is sad that these regulations have already been implemented. If people are caught quoting in dollars, they will be imprisoned for ten years. By the time this Parliament reverses these regulations, it will be too late because some people will have already been imprisoned.

Mr Speaker, I agree with your Committee’s recommendation that this penalty of ten years needs to be reviewed. In fact, I think that your Committee was being too diplomatic by suggesting that the penalty should be reviewed. It should have totally rejected these regulations. I urge this Parliament to totally reject these currency-related regulations because they are not working to serve the interests of the Zambians. They are only there to punish them for minor offences.

Mr Speaker, with those few comments, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr E. Lungu): Mr Speaker, the Government has taken note of the issues raised in your Committee’s report and wishes to assure this House that, in fact, it is fully aware that the powers to legislate belong to this august House. The Government is also aware that delegated legislation is simply meant to facilitate efficient delivery of services to the people.

In this regard, I wish to assure the House that there has been no time when the Government has deliberately and inadvertently intended to abuse its powers.

Sir, the Government will ensure that all the concerns raised in the report are addressed comprehensively by bringing them to the attention of the various agencies of the Executive which have the privilege of exercising various powers bestowed upon them by this House.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the hon. Members who have debated the Motion on the Floor of the House. Your Committee appreciates the overwhelming support which has been rendered by the whole House to this Motion. I would like to urge the whole House to pass this Motion. 

It is very comforting from where I  stand to hear the hon. Minister assure this House that the Executive is going to take into account the various issues which have been raised on the Floor of the House and in the report so that we can see change.

Mr Mushanga: Endesha, iwe!

Mr Speaker, as you have seen …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I want to thank everyone who has supported this Motion.

I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

Mr E. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

__________

The House adjourned at 1815 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 10th July, 2013.