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Debates- Tuesday, 1st October, 2013
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY Tuesday 1st October, 2013
The House met at 1430 hours
[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
_________
ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER
Mr Deputy Speaker: I wish to inform the House that, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 131, the Standing Orders Committee has appointed Mr P. Phiri, MP, to serve on the Committee of Youth and Sport.
I thank you.
___________
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
IMMINENT NURSES’ STRIKE
51. Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West) asked the Miniater of Health:
(a) whether the Government was aware that nurses countrywide were threatening to go on strike;
(b) if so, what the cause of the agitation was; and
(c) what measures the Government had taken to avert the planned strike.
The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chikusu): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of talk about a planned strike by nurses countrywide. The truth is that some nurses and midwives are seeking understanding of their new salaries and conditions of service as a result of implementation of the 2013 Collective Agreement.
Mr Speaker, the collective agreement signed between all health worker unions and the Government awarded a collective total salary increment of 21 per cent to nurses and midwives broken down as, 4 per cent increment on basic salary, 2 per cent increment added to the already existing 5% basic salary as commuted night duty allowance and 15 per cent of one’s basic salary as a newly introduced health personnel shift differential allowance. In monetary terms, these changes have resulted in the lowest paid nurse or midwife getting an increment of not less than K600. However, following the change to the new salaries and conditions of service, which were effected in September, this year, some disparities have been observed resulting in underpayments affecting a very small number of nurses and midwives in salary scale F and G. For example, instead of receiving the agreed upon 4 per cent increment on basic salary, some nurses received only 1.1 per cent. This is a problem associated with change management and migration from a fragmented salary structure to a single spine salary structure that the Government is implementing. The issue has already been brought to the attention of the Government and corrective measures are being taken. This matter is purely a payroll issue and has nothing to do with the collective agreement.
Mr Speaker, the Government has engaged the Health Workers Union to explain the details and implications of the 2013 Collective Agreement signed between the Government and the unions. Further, The Zambia Union of Nurses Organisation (ZUNO) has engaged the Public Service Management Division to rectify some disparities that may have been observed on some payslips. The House may further wish to note that my ministry holds quarterly joint labour meetings between senior management and union representatives to monitor the implementation of the collective agreements and other related matters.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister give an assurance that, this coming month end, this shall be normalised.
Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, it has been made clear that the disparities are being attended to.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, nurses play a very important role under this Government, which usually, talks carelessly.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I think there is a need to learn to practise asking questions for the purpose of clarification. Once an hon. Member begins by making a statement, then, he/she will be debating. Can we practise to ask questions.
You may continue.
Mr Mbewe: When the Patriotic Front (PF) formed Government in October, 2011, I remember very well, …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Member, please, I have no doubt that you are capable of asking a question. The statement can come at the end of your question.
You may continue.
Mr Mbewe: During the campaigns, the PF Government promised nurses a 100 per cent salary increment once they came into power. This assurance was given by Hon. Kambwili.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
You are not following my instructions. You begin by asking your question and then add on. Do not start by making a statement.
Mr Lubinda: Akolewa uyo!
Continue, hon. Member for Chadiza.
Mr Mbewe: Did the Government honour the promise it made to the nurses of increasing their salary by 100 per cent? If it did not, has it apologised to the nurses for its failure to fulfil its campaign promise?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: At least, that is the kind of thing I want us to practise.
The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister, in his reply, referred to negotiations that have been taking place for a long time.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, can you, please, raise your voice a bit?
Dr Kasonde: Sorry.
Dr Kalila: Do not use voice mail here.
Hon. Opposition Members Laughted
Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy, in his reply, made it clear that the conclusions arrived at, which are now being implemented, where as a result of prolonged negotiations between various parties about remunerations. These discussions have been taking place since the PF Government got into power. Unless there is another agenda other than that of payment, what would be the reason to ask whether the promises have been fulfilled?
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I am having problems getting the hon. Minister because there are loud consultations on the Floor which are, obviously, drowning his response.
Continue, hon. Minister.
Dr Kasonde: I have said that the outcome of agreements between the various parties involved is what we are implementing. Therefore, it follows that, if there were any promises made, they have been the subject of that discussion. It will be less than reasonable to expect otherwise.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mufalali (Senanga): May I find out why the ministry has decided to engage the labour unions when the hon. Minister is indicating that the discrepancies were brought about by the payroll system. Why is the Government involving the wrong people?
Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, my ministry recognises its responsibility not only to take action in terms of correcting the pay slip, but also to clarify to its staff what is going on all the time. It is the practice of the Government to keep all its members informed on what is going on. I think it is a practice that I would commend to the hon. Member as to ourselves.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the rationale used in awarding 4 per cent on the salary and 15 per cent on the shift differential. Did the Government not see that the 4 per cent meant nothing and so the 15 per cent equally means nothing?
Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, there are always sides to be taken over any one figure or action in terms of remuneration. The truth is that, at the end of it all, a consultative meeting has to come to what it considers, at that time, to be the reasonable thing to do. This has happened. It can always be a matter subject to review. I do not see any problem in maintaining our watch on the decisions that we have made, as a Government. For the time being, this has been a collective decision. We believe it is a correct decision.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): The nurses in our country are living in very deplorable conditions. Could this paltry salary increment of 21 per cent be attributed to the union’s or the Government’s lack of care?
Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, any increase in the remunerations of our nurses must be attributed to the wisdom of the Government that came into power. It came, it saw and it conquered.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that during the negotiations, the nurses were basing their argument on the promise of 100 per cent increment and that the reduction to 21 per cent was based on the wisdom of this Government.
Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, there were a number of considerations taken into account. One of them would have been whatever promises perceived or otherwise, that were brought up. There were other factors, most important of all, the need to transform our system from a multiple allowance system to a single system of salaries. Within that, a number of changes had to be made. In negotiations, there is no single factor that is paramount. All factors are taken into account. That is our practice.
Thank you, Sir.
Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, by the hon. Minister’s admission that 4 per cent and 15 per cent increment is a matter that the Government is going to review, does he, then, not agree that it was not wise to give nurses this kind of increment?
Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I would not agree that it was not wise because if I thought so, I would not have done it. It seems a reasonable conclusion.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the 4 per cent increment on the basic salary awarded to the nurses amounts to K200?
Hon. Opposition Members Laughted.
Dr Kasonde: I am grateful for the guidance on mathematical issues that has been introduced by the hon. Member. I am now aware of the translation from percentage to figures. I thank the hon. Member for his mathematical acumen.
Thank you, Sir.
Hon. PF Members laughted
RESIDENTIAL HOUSING ELECTRIFICATION FEE IN KAPUTA
52. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:
(a) what the fee for connecting electricity to residential housing units in Kaputa Parliamentary Constituency was; and
(b) whether the cost was subsidised by the Government and, if not, why.
The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, The market cost for connecting a residential housing unit in Kaputa is K769.00. However, at the moment, a customer only pays K150.00 while K619.00 is a subsidy provided to the customer.
The cost is subsidised with financing provided by the World Bank.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether this cost or fee is based on the size of the property or the distance from the source of electricity.
Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the price is not based on the size, but on the unit to be electrified being in an area subsidised by the World Bank.
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
GRADE 7 PUPILS’ PROGRESSION PLAN
53. Mr Simbao asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:
(a) what the progression plan for the Grade 7 pupils, who qualified to Grade 8 at basic schools was, since such schools had been abolished; and
(b) whether the Government had any plans to provide weekly secondary school boarding facilities in each ward, countrywide.
The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, basic schools have not been abolished. They are being phased out by constructing new secondary schools which can run from Grade 8 to Grade 12. To speed up the phasing-out process, the ministry will upgrade 220 basic schools countrywide in 2014. These are basic schools which are strategically located with additional infrastructure. They will be day secondary schools. However, the construction of boarding and day schools will continue.
Mr Speaker, Grade 7 pupils who will qualify to Grade 8 at basic schools will be admitted at existing basic schools or go to newly-upgraded secondary schools until all primary schools revert to the primary school status.
Sir, with the developments outlined above, the limited resources at the disposal of the ministry do not allow us to provide weekly secondary school boarding facilities …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Can I appeal to the hon. Deputy Ministers, on my right, to consult quietly.
You may continue, hon. Minister.
Mr P. Ngoma: … in each ward, countrywide. However, we say that the idea is good and we encourage communities to come in and provide such facilities, especially for girl children.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has mentioned that in 2014, the Government will upgrade 220 basic schools. In my constituency, every year, …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Like I said earlier, please, go straight to your question.
You may continue, hon. Member.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, how many schools, by 2014, is the ministry going to upgrade to secondary school level to take care of the 3,000-plus Grade 7 students that graduate in my constituency?
Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the Government’s idea is to take education closer to the people as much as possible. Like I stated earlier, each ward or constituency will be provided with such kind of schools within a radius of every 5 km.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, what timeframe has the ministry put in place within which there will be a complete change of nomenclature to the proposed primary and secondary school education?
The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, the ministry is hoping that with increased funding, it may target 2016 as a time we can look back to see whether it would have created enough space at secondary school level to absorb pupils from the existing basic schools and also to allow them to progress to Grade 10. This is because at Grade 9, there is a very huge deficit which needs to be dealt with. With a little more funding, which the House will, no doubt, approve, we think that we can expedite this phasing-out alongside constructing new schools and upgrading selected strategically-located basic schools into day secondary schools. This will start in 2014 and we will see how much progress we will make. Hopefully, we can make inroads into this very big challenge that the nation is faced with.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, 220 basic schools will be upgraded to secondary schools. What could be the breakdown of this figure so that we know how many schools will be upgraded in Kalabo Central?
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I think it is important for me to state that our major pre-occupation, as a ministry, is to complete the various secondary school infrastructure projects that we have lined up for upgrading. Some of them have been in existence since 2008 and that is where the bulk of our allocation will go. This is because these projects are accumulating huge amounts of money which we need to give to the contractors. We want to clear that. The second line of emphasis is the upgrading of the 220 basic schools into secondary schools. Instead of dealing with this infrastructure development centrally from Lusaka, the supervision of the upgrading of these secondary schools will be done in the provinces and districts where money will be sent and be disbursed. At that level, therefore, whether at provincial or district levels, Kalabo Central will know how many schools will be upgraded. For now, we will leave out the details, but, in due course, very clear details on how the Government intends to go about this will be given.
I thank you, Sir.
Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, the question that Hon. Simbao asked the hon. Minister was how many schools were going to be upgraded in his constituency to cover the 3,000 pupils at that stage.
Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order in relation to the answer which the hon. Minister has given. My question was very precise. The hon. Minister stated that there will be 220 basic schools that will be upgraded, willingly and desirably.
Laughter
Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, willingly and desirably, I also questioned him. Therefore, our statements match. This shows that the ministry is in possession of the information which the people and I are looking for …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! What is your point of order?
Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to ignore my question and deal with the building of new schools, which I did not ask about?
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
The hon. Member for Keembe was in the process of asking a question and in answering that question, the hon. Minister may touch on what the hon. Member for Kalabo Central has asked.
Continue, hon. Member for Keembe.
Rev. Lt-Gen Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the question by Hon. Simbao, Member of Parliament for Senga Hill, was: How many schools in his constituency were going to be upgraded in order to cover the 3,000 pupils that are going to go without schooling. I think this is an important question.
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, Hon. Simbao’s question was very clear and I thought my answer was as well. He was enquiring whether schools will be upgraded. I stated that, yes, some basic schools are earmarked for upgrading to create more space. I also explained that with this new development, the basic schools will continue admitting Grade 8 intakes. However, apart from the basic schools doing that, the new schools will also do the same, including the upgraded basic schools. By the end of it all, by 2016, we will see how much we would have phased out the basic school arrangement and instituted primary and secondary structures that the PF has promised the people of Zambia.
Sir, hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central, I did not dodge your question concerning the Kalabo issue. All I was saying was that the responsibility to upgrade basic schools by putting up additional infrastructure to add onto the existing 220 basic schools which are strategically located so that they continue as day secondary schools will be given to the provinces and districts. The Government will give you details. It is at district level where the number of schools for Kalabo Central will be determined.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, …
Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I seek to know whether the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications are in order to remain silent without clarifying the quarrel between the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) and the Zambia Police Force. We know, from the RTSA Act of Number 11, 2002, that 67 per cent of deaths in Zambia are caused by accidents of drunken driving and that accidents are the third highest cause of deaths in Zambia after the Human Immune Virus/Acquired Immuno deficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) disease.
Sir, when Dr Malama was the Inspector-General of Police, he had stopped the mounting of road blocks. He was relieved of his duties and the person who took over from him reintroduced the mounting of road blocks to an extent where five police officers were arrested for corruption. Recently, a road block was mounted by RTSA to curb cases of drunken driving. I was told that the Deputy Inspector-General, Dr Jere, discouraged that citing its potential to make the Ruling Party unpopular.
Mr Deputy Speaker: I am …
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs mentioned in this House that the police are scared of addressing the PF cadres. Is it in order for the Zambia Police Force to allow Zambians to die through drunken driving at the expense of making the PF Government popular?
I need your serious ruling, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: You should file a question so that the issue you have raised can be responded to. However, if my memory serves me right, I recall that the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications indicated that RTSA has a responsibility to carry out that job. That notwithstanding, you can file in a question.
Continue, hon. Member for Mapatizya.
Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, the upgrading of 220 schools sounds like a good idea. However, taking into consideration …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Order, on my left! Please, maintain some silence so that you can ask and be heard.
Continue, hon. Member.
Mr Miyanda: … the poor teacher - pupil ratio in this country, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how the Government intends to harmonise this anomaly in the next two years.
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, a lot of work has been done to accompany this decision. We have worked with the universities and colleges and have projected that we will be able to meet the human resource requirements for these institutions. We hope that by 2015, we will be able to open Grade 8 and 10 classes. That is being taken care of. However, that does not mean that we have forgotten about the other institutions which have poor teacher-pupil ratios. We will continue with the recruitment, as we have done and hopefully, we can make a meaningful contribution in this regard.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, much as I appreciate the good intentions of the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, I would like to get an assurance from him that, this time around, money will be made available and that the schools will be upgraded. This is considering …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
There is too much disorder. I do not understand why there are loud consultations going on. Please, let us have order. If you want to consult, you can do that in the corridors.
Continue, hon. Member for Monze Central.
Mr Mwiimbu: … that, in the last two years of the PF Government, assurances of upgrading and construction of additional classroom blocks and teachers’ houses in our various constituencies have been made, but none of that has been done. Can he assure us that, next year, the assurances that he is giving this House will be implemented.
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament’s anxiety is shared. Although I have no intention of speaking on behalf of the Ministry of Finance, let me say that we have been given an assurance that, beginning this week, there will be funds flowing into the provinces and districts.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Phiri: I know that, in many cases, this could be a little late, but we are hoping that we can make the best use of these funds before the year ends. As for next year, I only hope that the flow of resources will improve and be matched by the strides that we want to make in upgrading the 220 basic schools into secondary schools.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister inform the House what motivated the change of nomenclature from basic schools to primary and secondary schools. Can he also state when he will bring the list of the 220 schools in order for the hon. Members to acquaint themselves with where these schools will be constructed.
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I will respond to the last part of the question first.
The list will come together with the Infrastructure Development Plan that we hope to bring to this august House. Further, more details will emerge from my ministerial policy statement just before we look at the budget for the ministry.
Mr Speaker, I have stated before in this House that the abolition of basic schools was arrived at because we did not prepare well for the change to basic and high schools. Putting Grade 8 and 9 classes at primary schools without trained teachers to accompany the move was the major mistake. Looking back, the performance of 40 per cent of our children at Grade 9 level has since suffered mainly because they were being handled by teachers who were not initially trained for that purpose.
Mr Speaker, we are hoping that the move from basic and high schools to primary and secondary schools will bring additional advantages to the system. This is because the Government is focusing on training more teachers to handle Grades 8 and 9 in a secondary school set-up where they belong. I hope these secondary schools will have necessary facilities such as laboratories, which are not there at primary school level.
However, Sir, should the hon. Member need additional information, we will provide it.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, …
Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, my sincere apologies to my colleague for interfering with his flow of thought.
Mr Muchima: No problem.
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to misinform the House that the change to basic and high school system was, in a way, a one-time event when, in fact, we debated, as a nation, for almost three years, from 1974 to 1976, on these education reforms, spear-headed by the then hon. Minister of Education, the late Professor Lameck Goma?
Mr Speaker, at the end of the national reform process, we agreed, as a nation, …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I think that your point of order is turning into a statement. I am sure, Hon. Professor, that you can make a brief point of order that will cover the points that you want covered in your statement.
You may proceed.
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to misinform the nation when actually this change is deep-rooted in the education reform process of 1974 to 1976 where we agreed that we would have a nine-year basic education and a high school system as a nation? Is he in order?
Mr Deputy Speaker: Thank you. at least, that was better than where you were going earlier.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you will take that into account after the question by the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i.
Hon. Member for Ikeleng’i, you may continue.
Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what criterion is being used to upgrade these schools. Is it the population or the location?
Sir, furthermore, what went wrong with the terminology of basic school? Basic education was simply meant to allow poor people to, at least, get a bit of an education.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I am sure your question has been understood. The hon. Minister will respond.
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, one of the diseases that Zambia is experiencing is covering up our inefficiencies and lack of direction with too much talk.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Phiri: Whether various professors sat and decided that we go the basic and high school way does not eliminate the problems that the structure has created. Therefore, simply because we agreed, as a nation, to go this route, we cannot ignore the challenges that we are facing now.
Mr Speaker, the challenge that we face now is that there is no real learning at Grade 8 and 9 levels, let alone from Grades 1 to 7. The critical problem we have is that we do not have trained teachers to handle these pupils in a primary set-up. Primary schools were created for primary education. My argument is that had there been more investment in the structure and human resource at this level, we, as the PF, would have continued with the system.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Phiri: However, we cannot.
Mr Speaker, my assurance, Hon. Muchima, is that this project will succeed. It is not a movement from helping the poor to making grand schools for the elite. No. As you know, the PF is a poor people’s party.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Dr Phiri: Of course, I have no hesitation in stating that fact.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Dr Phiri: One compelling reason we have decided to upgrade these schools into day secondary schools is that they will remain open for the vast majority of our people in rural areas.
We have also realised that many rural areas depend on boarding facilities. We will continue to provide these. However, the danger with boarding schools, as hon. Members of Parliament will have realised, is that they are being hijacked by the elite from urban areas because they can afford the tuition fees and the transport costs.
Mr Speaker, the Government has not moved away from helping the rural poor to acquire education. This still remains our focus and we hope that once a school has been upgraded to a secondary school, it will remain a day school, where possible, as Hon. Simbao wanted to know. We will ask our well-wishers and the community to provide weekly boarding facilities. We would have done this, as a Government, but because of the lack of resources, we are unable to.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Lufuma (KabompoWest): Mr Speaker, according to the Minister, …
Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the decorum, etiquette and procedure of this House are well known.
Mr Speaker, when this House was being opened by His Excellency the President, the people on your right clapped and shouted. Is it in order for the people on your right to have behaved in such a manner?
Mr Deputy Speaker: That is the kind of etiquette and decorum you are talking about.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: How can you raise a point of order on something that took place a long time ago?
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: That is not in accordance with our rules. So, that point of order cannot be sustained.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member of Parliament continue, please.
Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that the hon. Minister mentioned that the change from basic to secondary school was necessitated by the lack of trained manpower at basic schools, hence, poor quality in education. I hope I heard him right. If that was the case, could it not have been prudent for this Government to alleviate this problem by training more teachers and allocating them to these basic schools and putting up infrastructure?
Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the path the Government has taken was arrived at after a very deep analysis. Therefore, it will stick to it.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
GOVERNMENT’S SUPPORT TO WOMEN’S CLUBS
54. Mr Sichula (Nakonde) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health how many women’s clubs had received support from the Government from October, 2011, to August, 2013.
The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Kazunga): Mr Speaker, the following is the number of women’s clubs that received support from the Government from October, 2011, to August, 2013:
Year No. of Women Total Amount Spent
Clubs Supported
2011 677 3, 101,282.00
2012 709 5,839,218.00
2013 540 4,932,085.00
Total 1,926 13, 872,585.00
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, is it possible for the hon. Minister to inform this House how many women’s clubs benefited from each province, especially Luapula Province?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, I think what the hon. Member can do is bring in another question because there are numerous clubs countrywide which the Government funded.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Kazunga: If I am going to break them into provinces, I think I need more information on that.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, may I find out what criterion was used to distribute this money and how much Ikeleng’i District received.
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, we use a very simple criterion because these are community-based programmes. The women’s clubs fill in forms at our community development offices in the districts to access this money. I cannot say Ikeleng’i received so much because the hon. Member has not asked that question. It is a new question.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Deputy Minister what roles the District Commissioners (DCs) play in the allocation of these funds to the women’s clubs.
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, there is no particular role that they play. Sometimes, depending on a given area, beneficiaries would want to go to the Office of the DC to seek help on how to access these funds. It is not that the DC is particularly involved in the disbursement of funds to women’s clubs.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, may I find out why the Government stopped giving grinding mills and sewing machines to the women’s clubs.
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, that is a very good question and it gives me the opportunity to acquaint hon. Members with the proper information. The Government has not stopped giving out this equipment. However, it has resolved that the easiest way is to give the clubs the money so that they can access the equipment from their own sources. There are many challenges that come into play when buying this equipment for the clubs and transportation is one of them. Therefore, the Government has found it easier to let the clubs handle the quotations and only give them cash for that equipment.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has confirmed that the DCs have no specific role to play in this procedure, can she confirm that it is not right for the DCs to distribute the cheques to the clubs once they are received in the district.
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, certainly, I have not heard anything about the DCs distributing cheques, at least, not in my ministry. The cheques that we give out go straight into the accounts of the beneficiaries or women’s clubs. We do not hand them over to them. Neither myself, as an hon. Minister, nor officials from my ministry go to the districts to hand out cheques.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Kazunga: Cheques are deposited into accounts. Perhaps, the hon. Member is mistaken. Maybe, this happens in the Ministry of Gender and Child Development, but not in the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Gender!
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Administration, hammer mills, sewing machines and other equipment meant for clubs in various constituencies were given through hon. Members of Parliament. Why has the system changed? Why can the hon. Minister not use hon. Members of Parliament to distribute these hammer mills?
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, this shift in policy is also meant to protect politicians like hon. Members of Parliament …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!
Let us give the hon. Minister a chance to answer the question.
Continue, hon. Minister.
Ms Kazunga: … because there have been a lot of abuses before, where hon. Members of Parliament, especially in the MMD Government, gave out cheques which were not accounted for.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer mills.
Mr Mwila: Bwekeshenipo!
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
She is answering and you are drowning her response.
Ms Kazunga: Sir, the best we can do for hon. Members of Parliament, as a ministry, is to give out those cheques, but allow them to come to the offices to verify information regarding which clubs would have benefited.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Ministers: Hear, hear!
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, in case the hon. Minister is not aware, I would like to inform this House that there were situations where the beneficiaries of the cheques were told to spend the money on purposes for which it was not intended. If it was brought to the attention of the Government that money had been spent on things other than the intended purpose, what would it do?
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, this money is meant to uplift the lives of the poorest of this country and we, as a Government, do not take kindly to people who abuse such funds. So, if there is any information to that effect, you are at liberty to come to our offices to report so that we can know how to follow that up.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he said that the figure of beneficiaries has been reducing each year, from 2011 to 2013. Why has this been so?
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, these applications vary and, so, it depends on how many applications we receive at a particular time. This programme is on-going. At the moment, there are some applications that are being approved while others are still being processed. Just to give the hon. Member additional information, from now onwards, communities will receive these funds through the district offices, which have been funded. By Friday, everything will be done at district level.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the insinuation by the hon. Deputy Minister is that, in fact, the DCs are more credible than hon. Members of Parliament. Could the hon. Minister confirm if that is the position.
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, I will certainly not confirm that because what I am saying is that the DCs are neither signatories nor do they approve the women empowerment programmes.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said the Government wants to protect hon. Members of Parliament from abuse. If the purchasing of equipment was abused, does the Government find it prudent to give cash to vulnerable groups at that level? Is it not really exposing the public resources to abuse?
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, certainly not. This is because the idea of paying the beneficiaries directly is working. Our officers are able to follow up how the resources are being utilised. If hon. Members of Parliament disburse these funds, the officers will just sit back and expect the hon. Members to supervise as well.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, for the purposes of accountability, do you not think the elected hon. Member of Parliament, …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!
The consultations are too loud.
Continue, hon. Member for Keembe.
Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: … who was elected by the people in that area, needs to know the monies that the Government disburses to the clubs in his/her constituency?
Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament certainly have every right to know what is happening in the clubs in their constituencies. For example, they need to know how much money the electorates are getting through the Women Empowerment Fund. That is why we usually have lists of how much money has been given to a particular constituency. So, if the hon. Member can visit our office, he will be able to get that information.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Leaders: Hear, hear!
SILOS CONSTRUCTION IN NORTHERN PROVINCE
55. Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when the Government would construct grain silos in the Northern Province to curb the perpetual wastage and loss of grain due to inadequate storage facilities.
The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Mwewa): Mr Speaker, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has already embarked on a countrywide programme to rehabilitate, upgrade and construct new silos and sheds in all the provinces of the country, including the Northern Province. The programme is in phases and will start with the rehabilitation of the existing silos and the upgrading of the ninety-eight open slabs into covered sheds. The second phase will involve the construction of ten provincial grain silos with a total storage capacity of 500,000 metric tonnes and the Northern Province is included in this phase. Construction of the grain silo for the Northern Province is expected to commence in 2014, with a completion period of two years.
I thank you, Sir.
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!
There is disorder in the House. The loud consultations make it difficult for the Chair and others to hear the questions.
Hon. Member, you may continue.
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what has happened to the assurance that was made to this House that the grain silos in Monze, Bwana Mkubwa, Ndola and Kabwe would be rehabilitated.
Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, we are on top of it.
Laughter
Mr Mwewa: Sir, what is happening, at the moment, is that we have engaged contractors and the Attorney-General is scrutinising the contracts. Before the end of this month, October, we will know which contractor will be awarded the tender to rehabilitate these silos and when that contractor will move on site. So, rehabilitation works on those silos should commence soon.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that the FRA is constructing sheds in each province. I would like to know in which town the shed is being constructed in the Western Province.
Mr Mwewa: Mr Speaker, I would request the hon. Member to give us a bit of time before coming back to the House with the names of places where these sheds will be constructed.
I thank you, Sir.
KASAMA/MUMANA LUPANDO/CHILUBI ROAD
56. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications when the Government would rehabilitate the Kasama/Mumana Lupando/Chilubi (Chasasha) Road.
The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr M. H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to rehabilitate the Kasama/Mumana Lupando/ Chilubi (Chasasha) Road since it was not among the …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I honestly fail to understand some of the happenings in the House. If we have to understand what the hon. Minister is talking about, I think, it is only fair that we consult quietly. Surely, this should not be an issue which should be over emphasised.
Continue, hon. Minister.
Mr M. H. Malama: … the roads which were earmarked for rehabilitation in the 2013 Annual Work Plan. However, the hon. Member should consider liaising with the DC for inclusion of this road on the priority list of the 2014/2015 Road Development Agency (RDA) Annual Work Plan.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the Government keeps saying that it is pro-poor. This is a road that links the three districts, namely Kasama, Luwingu and Chilubi. It passes through …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Hon. Member, can you ask your follow-up question without making a statement.
You may continue.
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, is it possible that this road can be included in the 2014 Annual Work Plan for feeder roads because the submissions on that particular road to the relevant ministries have already been done through the Luwingu District Council?
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the inclusion of this road in the 2014 Annual Work Plan is not possible because the plan has already been worked on. This is why it is important for all hon. Members of Parliament to look at the priority roads in their areas so that they help us to plan. So, I plead with hon. Members to bring the lists of priority roads to the ministry, through their local councils, so that we can include them in the annual work plan.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mucheleka: A point of order on the hon. Minister, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: No, no, the rules do not allow it. You asked a question and, now, you want to raise a point of order? That is unacceptable.
Laughter
Mr Habeenzu: Mr Speaker, whether a road is a priority or not, I am sure it is very important if it is recommended by the council. The question is …
Mr Mucheleka went and sat next to Mr M. H. Malama.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Since the hon. Minister is supposed to listen to the question, maybe, the hon. Member for Lubansenshi should give him time to listen to the questions. You can consult later.
Continue, hon. Member for Chikankata.
Hon. Government Members: Yes!
Laughter
Mr Mucheleka moved to another Bench.
Mr Habeenzu: Mr Speaker, if a road has been recommended by the council, it means that it is a priority in a particular area. Why does it take long for the ministry to include these roads in the annual work plan? How does the hon. Minister know that this is not a priority road when the road has been recommended by the council?
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, it is very easy to know the roads which have been recommended by the local people because we receive a list of these roads. The people in the area submit to the local authorities which submit them to the RDA regional offices. Later on, these roads are submitted to the head office. That is the procedure we follow.
Thank you, Sir.
Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Sir, if the criterion is that the priority roads must be submitted to the relevant authorities, why has the Solwezi/Chingola Road not been prioritised since we have submitted it, on several occasions, in fact, almost every year?
The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, although the Chingola/ Solwezi Road is not part of the main question, I would like to state that we have already taken care of it and it will be worked on.
Thank you, Sir.
EXAMINATION CENTRES IN KABOMPO
57. Mr Lufuma asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when the following secondary schools in Kabompo West would be made examination centres:
(a)Kabulamema;
(b)Mumbeji; and
(c)Pokola.
The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, …
Mr Mucheleka moved back next to Mr M. H. Malama.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I think, in all fairness, if the hon. Member for Lubansenshi wants to continue consulting the hon. Minister, the two of them are better off going into the corridors …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Deputy Speaker: … so that they can consult nicely. You can come back after you are done with your consultation. Can you go and consult outside.
Mr Mucheleka got up to leave the Chamber, but Mr M. H. Malama remained seated.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, the hon. Member wants to consult you over something. So, I want to give him the opportunity.
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: Go and have a chat.
Mr M. H. Malama: Sir, there is another question coming.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Oh, I see. Then, you can do it later, hon. Member for Lubansenshi.
Continue, hon. Minister.
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the requirement which the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ) insists on is that a school can be given the status of an examination centre only when it has science laboratories. Kabulamema, Mumbeji and Pokola, just like many other schools countrywide, do not have laboratories. For this reason, in 2013, the Government allocated funds to construct four laboratories at four schools in the North-Western Province. This was also done in other provinces.
Mr Speaker, in addition to that, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education has also embarked on the production of mobile science laboratories with the support of our co-operating partners. The hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education recently launched the distribution of these mobile science laboratories to all the provinces in this country. I want to inform the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabompo West that the North-Western Province, just recently, received 100 mobile laboratories and we hope that the three secondary schools are going to benefit from that distribution.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, four laboratories for the North-Western Province! There are eight districts in the province, and yet the Government is talking about four laboratories. These secondary schools are 75 km away from the …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
What is the follow-up question?
Mr Lufuma: Eeh?
Laughter
Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that these secondary schools are very far away from the examination centres? The little girls who sit for examinations at these centres risk getting pregnant during the period of writing their examinations because they are away from home. I would like to get an answer from the hon. Minister.
Mr Deputy Speaker: That is why I insist on …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order, on my right!
This is why I insist that hon. Members get used to asking questions. I knew you would ask the question except that, sometimes, you want to preface your questions with statements.
The hon. Minister may answer.
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is aware of the distances that are involved. In fact, I have been to all the three secondary schools in Kabompo that the hon. Member has mentioned. I know that many of the pupils sit for their examinations at Kabompo Secondary School. However, as we have said, one of the short-term interventions that we are embarking on, as a ministry, is the production of mobile science laboratories, whose distribution the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education recently launched. Like I said, the three schools that the hon. Member has asked about will benefit from the 100 mobile science laboratories that have just recently been distributed to the North-Western Province.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister indicate where the private providers of education on the market can find the science laboratory kits that are a must-have in learning institutions.
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that these science laboratory kits are available on the market. Therefore, the private providers of education can buy them from there. As for the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, we have our own National Science Centre which produces science kits that we distribute to our schools.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that three secondary schools will be accorded the status of examination centres. May I know how soon this will be done. Will it be during the course of this year or will this apply for next year’s examinations?
Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, since these schools will just be receiving the mobile science laboratories, it suffices to say that they will be granted examination centre numbers next year because acquiring examination centre status entails going through a process.
I thank you, Sir.
BOREHOLE SINKING IN MWEMBESHI
58. Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development how many boreholes would be sunk in Mwembeshi Parliamentary Constituency in 2013, ward by ward.
Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, we have said before that the ministry responsible for water supply and sanitation is the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. The Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development is responsible for …
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my left! I am not sure whether you are following the hon. Minister’s response.
Continue, hon. Minister.
Mr Zulu: Our ministry is responsible for water resources development and management. Therefore, this response came from our sister ministry, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.
Sir, the Government plans to construct boreholes in Mwembeshi Parliamentary Constituency in 2013. The contractor has since mobilised to site and is currently drilling. The sites to be drilled are selected by the respective districts which receive requests from communities. Like our colleague from the Ministry of Communication, Transport, Works, Supply and Communications said these are demand-driven projects. An hon. Member of Parliament is supposed to know which villages are supposed to be provided with water and roads. I think that these are supposed to come from us, hon. Members of Parliament. That is what I also did in my constituency …
Interruptions
Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, an hon. Member of Parliament is supposed to give information to the local district council. This information should come from hon. Members of Parliament to the council. Honestly, we expect the hon. Members of Parliament to know which areas are supposed to be provided with water.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milambo: Mr Speaker, is the Government considering fifteen to be the best number of boreholes to be given to Mwembeshi Constituency?
Mr Mutale: Too much!
Mr Milambo: Mr Speaker, the answer is, yes. Fifteen is enough for this year. This is a continuous process. We cannot do everything at the same time. We shall do it step by step.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mutale: Hear, hear!
LUMWANA DISTRICT HOSPITAL
59. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Health:
(a) when furniture and other requirements at Lumwana District Hospital would be procured;
(b) when the hospital was earmarked to be opened to the public; and
(c) what the total number of staff at the hospital was.
The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Mulenga): Mr Speaker, the Government has already procured all the required furniture and equipment for Lumwana District Hospital. Currently, it is awaiting delivery of the furniture and equipment by various suppliers.
Mr Speaker, the major challenge that the Government has, at the moment, is that the hospital is not yet connected to the national power grid, hence there being no power supply. The Government has engaged the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) and the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) to ensure that power is installed at the hospital.
Sir, the hospital is expected to be opened soon after power has been connected and all the equipment has arrived and been installed. At the moment, the number of staff posted to the hospital is seventy-eight. However, this personnel is attached to various health facilities in the province. We will have to re-allocate them to Lumwana once the hospital has been opened to the public.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether, in the absence of power driven by ZESCO, solar energy can instea be used because the people in that area are suffering as the nearest hospital is far away from Lumwana District.
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the Government has come to realise that the connection of power might happen soon. Therefore, it is taking measures to put up a generator set, although it is expensive to run. In fact, if you go to Lumwana, as I did, you will discover that there is already a generator set which was being used by the contractor. Therefore, the Government wants to make use of it in order to operationalise the Out-Patients Department (OPD).
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.
Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, in his answer, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that there are seventy-eight members of staff that have been identified. May I know whether this figure, seventy-eight, is the total number of the establishment of that district hospital.
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, seventy-eight is the number of staff that was posted to Lumwana District Hospital at the time the hospital was expected to be opened to the public. It is not the total number required for the establishment. There is a need for more personnel. However, with the challenge of housing and the fact that the hospital is not operational, we, as a Government, thought that the seventy-eight staff can cater for the hospital for now.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether enough houses have been built for staff.
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the Government has not built enough staff houses. About sixteen houses were constructed at Lumwana District Hospital, but these are insufficient to cater for seventy-eight members of staff. Therefore, the building of more houses will be continued.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, may I just find out why the Government is finding it difficult to electrify Lumwana District Hospital when Lumwana is electrified, and Lumwana Mine is actually using electricity supplied by ZESCO. Why is it difficult to connect electricity to this hospital through the existing ZESCO power lines?
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the point at which the power can be tapped is not near the district hospital. Yes, there is power at Lumwana Mine. However, Lumwana Mine and the hospital are far apart. This is why we have said that we have engaged REA to bring power closer and connect it to the hospital. That issue has been taken care of.
I thank you, Sir.
Interruptions
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
When I look at you, just know that I am stuck, so you better ...
Laughter
Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasempa.
Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that there is a ‘genset’ on site. However, he has not given the timeframe within which it will be operational. When is it going to be connected to the hospital?
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, as I mentioned earlier, the ‘genset’ needs some attention. It was being used by the contractor and when I visited the area, I gave instructions to the Provincial Medical Officer to repair it to ensure that we use it to, at least, light the OPD. As I speak, I am sure that the problem has been rectified. Soon, the ‘genset’ will be connected for use at the OPD.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I hope the people outside know what we mean by ‘genset’. Therefore, for the sake of our people out there who may be listening, what is that ‘genset’?
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, it is the power generator set.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the district hospital in Lumwana is very important and has a very deep-rooted history. I am surprised by the answers that have been given. The hospital is not connected to the national grid, the generator set is not working and there are only sixteen houses for staff. Why is the ministry not treating this hospital as a priority as it deserves to be treated?
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, all hospitals in the country are important and we cannot say that only one area should be prioritised and treated as important in terms of health. We take it that everyone needs the health service everywhere were we take it.
Coming to the hon. Member’s question about the generator set, I mentioned that we did not procure it. It was being used by the contractor when he was constructing the hospital. Therefore, we engaged the contractor who allowed us to use the generator set. It is only that it needs a little attention before it can work.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Habeenzu: Mr Speaker, from the answers given by the hon. Minister, it seems that the Government is finding it difficult to connect electricity to this hospital. Why has it not tried to ask Lumwana Mine to help through its corporate social responsibility? I say this because the people who will go to this hospital are workers for the mine.
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, yes, that could be another option. However, I have already stated that we have sat down with ZESCO and REA and they are attending to that problem. However, I thank you for that question, and it is a very good observation.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, when the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned that he has had discussions with REA, it instigated a question in my mind and that is: does the Rural Electrification Master Plan (REMP) contain the electrification of this hospital or he is just talking anyhow?
Hon. Government Members: Question!
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, as a Government, we are not shooting in the dark. We have a programme and REA is a Government institution. Therefore, when we have a problem, we can rush to it to ask for assistance. There is nothing wrong with that.
I thank you, Sir.
KAOMA URBAN CLINIC
Mr Antonio asked the Minister of Health:
(a) when Kaoma Urban Clinic would be supplied with a stand-by generator set to minimise interruption of power supply to the institution;
(b) when the construction of staff houses at the clinic would commence; and
(c) when X-ray and theatre facilities at the clinic would become operational.
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health is currently in the process of procuring a stand-by generator set for a number of facilities, which include Kaoma Urban Clinic and others nationwide. The ministry has already initiated tender procedures and has set the first quarter of next year, 2014, as the time when the units will be finally procured and installed at their respective locations.
Mr Speaker, the construction of staff houses at Kaoma Urban Clinic is planned for and expected to commence this year.
Mr Speaker, the works on the theatre are in progress and await completion by the contractor, Messrs Pronet, on site, before the theatre and X-ray can be fully operational.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, so far, we have lost lives at the hospital because of the power outages. What plans does the Government have to work on this problem between now and the time the generator set is operational?
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member of Parliament that, indeed, due to the erratic supply of power, we are finding it difficult to operate in the hospital. However, I can only assure the hon. Member of Parliament that, as a Government, we have realised that fact and plan on procuring generator sets. As for immediate interventions, I would like to invite the hon. Member of Parliament to the ministry so that, together, we see what we can do. There may be a generator set lying idly somewhere which we can make use of.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, is the ministry considering providing transport for the workers …
Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the chance to raise on this point of order. It is a well-known fact that matters raised in this House should be considered serious because they are 100 per cent correct. The hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education stated that all high or secondary schools which have examination centre status have science laboratories. This sparked a question in my mind that a school in my constituency which has Examination Number 8043 has no science laboratory. Is the hon. Minister in order to mislead this House and the nation that schools that have examination numbers have science laboratories?
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
I think it is time we got used to adhering to our own rules. We keep reminding hon. Members that rising on points of order on issues which were debated thirty minutes ago, is not allowed in the House. That is not procedural. Nice as the point of order may be, unfortunately, it cannot be sustained.
May the hon. Member for Sesheke continue, please.
Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, is the ministry considering providing transport for the workers at the clinic under discussion to ferry them to and from their residences, especially in the night?
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, that question appears to be new but, as a Government, we do provide administration transport to almost all the hospitals in the country. Whether this transport is used to ferry workers or as an ambulance to ferry patients is a decision arrived at by the administration at that particular point.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that construction of staff houses at the clinic will commence this year. How many of these housing units will be constructed at the clinic?
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I do not have the statistics of how many clinics will be constructed, but we are starting construction works this year. It is included in the 2013 Annual Work Plan.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I wish to applaud the decision by the Government to procure generator sets for various health facilities across the country. As an interested party and knowing that Lukulu is not even connected to the national grid, …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
What is your question?
Dr Kalila: ... I would like to know whether the hon. Minister is considering bringing a list of these facilities where the procurement of generator sets is being planned for.
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, …
Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.
[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]
Mr Mwanza crossed the Floor.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Hon. Members: Order! Order! Order!
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, obviously, the list will be availed to the hon. Member of Parliament when it has been compiled. Let me advise my colleagues that it is also important to work together with the Provincial Medical Office and the District Health Management Team. Some of the issues that the hon. Members are raising, including that of the list, can be sorted out at provincial and district level.
I thank you, Sir.
SUSPECTED KARAVINAS’ ARRESTS
61. Mr Antonio asked the Minister of Home Affairs how many people in Kaoma District were arrested on suspicion of being Karavinas from January to July, 2013.
The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that from January, 2013, to July, 2013, a total number of three cases of suspected Karavinas were reported from the following areas:
(a)Nyango Area, which is 80 km from Kaoma;
(b)Kanabombe Area, which is 25 km south east of Kaoma District; and
(c)Namimbwe Area, which is 20 km north east of Kaoma District.
Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that there was only one case in which an arrest was made and this was the case reported in THE Namimbwe Area. An arrest was made and a docket opened. The suspect is due to appear in the courts of law to be charged with attempted murder.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, …
Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Rev. Lt-Gen Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order not to use Parliamentary language by not interpreting the meaning of karavina?
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, as you answer other questions, take that into account.
Continue, hon. Member for Kaoma Central.
Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, does the Government have any plans to educate our people on the dangers of the karavinas?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, before I respond to the hon. Member’s question, I will attempt to interpret the term ‘karavinas’, although the hon. Member for Kaoma would have been the best person to interpret the word for us.
Sir, according to what we know, these karavinas are members of the community who carry out assassinations in different forms using different methods. Most of them use weapons that have been obtained through illegal means and that is the best I can do in trying to interpret the word. I am told they are usually hired …
Hon. Government Member: Hired killers.
Mr Kampyongo: … killers.
Laughter
Mr Kampyongo: The Government has tried to put up a number of measures in place in an attempt to help the communities in these areas where these suspects have been terrorisng people. One of the measures has been through sensitisation of the community on how they can mobilise themselves to identify these suspects so that they can quickly inform the police. The police have also availed themselves to tutor members of the community on how to police their communities.
Further, Sir, we, as a Government, have tried to engage traditional leaders in seeing how they can help us because they know their people well and it would be easier for them to identify who these suspects are. We are also appealing to the hon. Members of Parliament coming from these areas to be proactive and see how they can assist the police in the areas to deal with this issue.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, …
Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs in order to mislead the House and the entire nation on the meaning of karavinas?
Laughter
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, karavina comes from the Russian word Kalashnikov which we call an AK-47 here.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, is he in order to mislead us …
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
I cannot follow the point of order.
Proceed with the point of order, hon. Member.
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to mislead us on the meaning of karavina, which is an adulterated word for Kalashnikov?
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: The ruling is that you have sufficiently debated your point of order.
May the hon. Member for Lukulu East continue.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, as an hon. Member of Parliament coming from an area which is worst hit by karavinas, …
Interruptions
Dr Kalila: … I take this matter very seriously. Just last month when I was in the constituency, a young man in Namayula was killed in cold blood by these karavinas. I will try to define the term so as to put this matter to rest.
Mr Speaker, karavinas, as the hon. Member said, are hired assassins who use military weapons, AK-47s, which are also know as automatic Kalashnikov. That is where the word karavinas comes from. These hired assassins have been wreaking havoc for more than twentyyears in these areas …
The Deputy Chairperson: What is the question?
Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, there are many complaints and cries that we have brought before this House. When is the Zambia Police Force going to effectively deal with this matter as it did with the Mailoni brothers?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
M Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, it is good that the professor has helped in defining Karavinas. I wish I had taken lessons in the Russian language.
Mr Speaker, I totally agree that this has been a challenge for a long time and it is time we put our heads together. These are hired assassins who live within the community. Sometimes, it is a challenge for the police to identify the suspects because the people who may know them may be the ones protecting them. We need to look past the police and get the communities to understand that those activities are detrimental to the well-being of their communities.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the people who may have information on the where-abouts of these assassins fear that they may be the next targets if they report to the police. What measures can be put in place to protect would-be informers who risk being targeted by these karavinas?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the police have always put measures in place to protect whistle blowers. I am aware that we have had challenges over the years, but now we have deployed some police in the new Mitete District. Therefore, the presence of the police should help people in the communities.
Sir, professional police will always ensure that they protect the lives of those that give them sensitive information. I can assure you that the police will utilise that information in the execution of their duties without disclosing the source.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, in view of the problems faced by the people in the areas infiltrated by karavinas, is the ministry not considering placing an amnesty for people with AK 47 guns and all other types of guns in that area to surrender them to the police?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, that is one of the measures we have had in place for some time. We have been collecting illegal firearms through the amnesty programme for sometime in all these areas. It is an on-going process. However, sometimes, we used to have challenges in terms of budgetary allocation to that amnesty programme. We are making sure that money is available so that those people who have these firearms can be enticed and encouraged to hand them over. If you remember, not too long ago, I was conducting an exercise at Lilayi Training School where we destroyed a very good number of firearms which were confiscated from these areas.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the Mailoni brothers terrorised the people of Mkushi for quite some time and it took combined efforts of the Zambia Police Force and the Ministry of Defence to capture them. Would it not be wise if you could work together with the Ministry of Defence, perhaps, to curb this particular situation in Lukulu?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, we have taken note of that suggestion, but I may wish to just make a distinction between the two issues. The Mailoni brothers were very well-known suspects and, at least, they were identifiable. The karavinas are members of the community. They live within the community. The people who hire them, know them. That is the complexity that distinguishes the two scenarios. Even bringing the army to help, like my brother is suggesting, might not be the solution. The solution lies in making sure that the community partners with the police by availing information. The community should know that it is only through the use of the police that it can settle disputes as opposed to hiring these assassins.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the issue of karavinas is quite a big problem and it has been an intriguing issue for years. In the Western Province, there is a belief that if someone goes miss and you ask where he or she is, they will say, “uile kwa kunu.”
The Deputy Chairperson: Meaning?
Mr Muntanga: Sir, this means that, “we do not know where he/she has gone.” Once that phrase is used, that case is buried and you will not know where that person is. If they have that traditional belief, is the ministry not considering engaging the Lozi people to stop hiring these people because they know them? I think they should also break away from the “uile kwa kunu” belief.
Laughter
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I wish Hon. Muntanga could be part of us when seeking this help because he has explained the situation so well. Unfortunately, as a Government, we are not going to embark on an exercise of getting into those traditional issues of witch hunting. We are there to provide a professional service through the Zambia Police Force. If members of the community can be of help by bringing the information such as Hon. Muntanga has done, we shall really appreciate as Ministry of Home Affairs.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, this issue of karavinas …
Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, is Hon. Muntanga in order to use the word, “kunu”, which has been used by our ancestors and, to date, there are efforts to remove it from our vocabulary? I seek your serious ruling.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
To the extent that you have used the same word in raising your point of order, he is in order.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member for Zambezi West may continue.
Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, this issue of karavinas is very serious and at one point, your Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs took up the matter. At that time, I was a member of that Committee and we went all the way to Lukulu. We recommended a number of measures to be put in place by the Government to eradicate this problem of karavinas, but to date, it has not implemented those measures. Why is the Government not taking action on the reports of your Committee to get rid of this problem of karavinas?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I am glad that there is that report. We will revisit it and invite the hon. Member to share the content of that report with us. We are looking for solutions and if, indeed, in that report, we can find them, we shall be more than grateful.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, in one of his responses, the hon. Minister attempted to distinguish the case of the karavinas from that of the late Mailoni brothers. May their souls rest in peace.
Interruptions
Mr Nkombo: Sir, in his response, the hon. Minister said that these two sets of people are known by the community. I want to know where exactly he draws the distinction. Further, in trying to curb this atrocity by the karavinas, has his Government thought about raising the bar by offering monetary or pecuniary gain to the people who can help to identify the culprits and thereby have the fire arms confiscated? Seeing that the hon. Minister has said that the karavinas are actually hired people, it means that these killings are commercial transactions. Therefore, has the Government considered exploring the idea of actually offering money to people who would offer it to these criminals?
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the distinction I was trying to draw between the Mailoni brothers and these karavinas we are talking about is that the latter were fugitives who had run away from the community. They had gone into hiding in the bush. Their situation is different. The karavinas are living amongst the community members. That is a very big difference. The issue on whether we are considering offering monetary rewards for those who may report the karavinas is very complex and I would not want to commit the Government to such kind of an exercise. This is because we might start encouraging even more people to get into this activity. We have information which suggests that, in some cases, people pay a certain number of chickens or animals to hire karavinas. Therefore, it is a very difficult and complex situation. That is why I said that we should look beyond the police in trying to seek solutions in dealing with this matter.
I thank you, Sir.
KAPUTA INSTITITIONS’ ELECTRIFICATION
62. Mr Ng’onga asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:
(a) why REA had not connected the following institutions in Kaputa Parliamentary Constituency to the national electricity grid:
(i) Luntomfwa Primary School;
(ii) Nkosha Primary School;
(iii) Nkosha Health Centre;
(iv) Kafwimbi Clinic;
(v) Chimpatika Primary School;
(vi) Kasongole Health Centre; and
(vii) Kasongole Primary School.
(b) when the institutions would be connected to the grid; and
(c) what the duration of the electrification programme was.
Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the named Government institutions in Kaputa Parliamentary Constituency have not been connected to the national electricity grid because of limited funds. However, in 2012, the REA completed the construction of a 120 km-long and 33 kV power line from Mununga to Kaputa Boma. Through this project, Kaputa Boma, which previously relied on diesel-generated electricity supply, is now connected to the national grid.
Sir, subject to availability of funds, the connection of the named Government institutions will be undertaken in 2014.
Mr Speaker, once funds are made available, it will take a duration of eight months to complete electrifying the named Government institutions.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
MANSA/ MILAMBO ROAD
63. Mr Mbulakulima asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:
(a) when the Mansa/Milambo Road was last rehabilitated;
(b) when the Government planned to rehabilitate the road; and
(c) what the estimated cost of rehabilitating the road was.
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the Mansa/Milambo Road was last rehabilitated in 1998. The project is expected to undergo maintenance in 2015. A consultant will be engaged to carry out feasibility studies. Therefore, the cost will be known after these feasibility studies have been carried out.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, one wonders the source of THE information which says that the road was last rehabilitated in 1998. However, taking into account that, last year, that place was almost cut off from the rest of the province, I would like to find out how the Government expects the people of Milambo to survive, especially during the rainy seasons between this year and 2015. Is this the pro-poor promise that the Government gave to the people of Matanda and Milambo?
The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, our Government is committed to executing projects according to plan. In 2013, our Government carried out maintenance works and it put up about five culverts of 1.2 m diameter. So, it is proactive. The road is currently passable and the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) was used to maintain the road at a cost of K1 million.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, we have been told that the maintenance of this particular road will be done in 2015. However, is it possible that the works can be brought forward to 2014 since we are nearing the end of 2013?
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of this road was done in 1998, but some maintenance works were carried out this year, in 2013. The road is currently passable. We can hold the maintenance in readiness for the execution of the plans we have set out for 2015.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
BOREHOLE SINKING IN MILENGE
64. Mr Mbulakulima asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:
(a) how many boreholes were earmarked for drilling in Milenge District in 2011 and 2012; and
(b) how many boreholes were drilled during the same period by the following:
(i) the Government;
(ii) co-operating partners; and
(iii) non-governmental organisations (NGOs).
Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, in response to Hon. Mbulakulima Mwanya,
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!
It is inappropriate to refer to somebody by the names he does not rejoice over. So, may you, please, withdraw that name and use appropriate names if you choose to do so.
Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I withdraw that name.
Hon. Government Members: But message nayumfwika.
Laughter
Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, a total of 142 boreholes were drilled in 2011 and 2012. Twenty were drilled in 2011 while 122 were drilled in 2012.
Sir, the breakdown of the boreholes drilled is as follows:
Institution Total No. of Boreholes
Government 10
co-operating partners 122
NGOs 10
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, he who laughs last, laughs loudest. The hon. Minister’s time will come. The name by which the hon. Minister referred to me is the kind by which chiefs where he comes from are called.
Laughter
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, taking into account that the Government only drilled ten boreholes, does the Government think that it is doing enough to impress the people of my area? What makes it think that the people of Milenge can vote for a party or Government like this one?
Laughter
Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, these boreholes were drilled between 2011 and 2012 and we know that they are not enough. Like I earlier said, these projects are on-going and the Government intends to drill more boreholes.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, from the statistics that we have just been given, it looks like the co-operating partners have a bigger stake in this sector. Given that fact, is there a deliberate policy by this Government to distribute the donor funds equitably to the different regions in this country?
The Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, the co-operating partners are given the budgeted number prior to their funding. So, they release funding based on the number of boreholes needed to be drilled. We do not determine how much funds we expect from them. We simply extend our work plan to them and they decide on how many boreholes they can fund.
Having said this, I wish to commend our co-operating partners for the help rendered to the Government as it had insufficient funds, for that particular period, to cater for more than ten boreholes. All in all, it was the Government’s initiative to source funds from its co-operating partners and other NGOs.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that more boreholes would be drilled. I would like to know how many more boreholes will be drilled in this particular area. We would like an assurance so that we work with figures.
Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, at the moment, it is quite difficult for us to give the hon. Member the figures planned for next year. However, after the budget has been approved, we will be in a position to give the exact figures.
We have, however, submitted our requirements, again, to our co-operating partners so that they can help us with whatever they can. We will, therefore, be in a position to give you the exact number of boreholes which will be drilled across the country in due course.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, has the Government carried out a survey to determine the maximum number of boreholes required in Milenge District?
Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, the demand for boreholes comes from the areas involved after an assessment of their needs. We do not know the needs of the people in these areas. However, local authorities, together with the local people win these areas, tell us what their needs are and we examine whether they are worth prioritising. The input, therefore, comes from the people in the areas where these boreholes are needed.
I thank you.
Dr Kazonga: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm whether this programme is part of the National Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme running from 2006 to 2015, which the MMD left, or it is some other arrangement.
Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, yes, we have continued with the programme left by the MMD, except with some adjustments. Arising from health crises and other issues, we have added more areas, which we feel need the boreholes urgently, to benefit from this programme.
I thank you, Sir.
T5 ROAD UPGRADING
65. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications when the remaining portion of the T5 Road, Mwinilunga/Jimbe Border would be upgraded to bituminous standard.
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the Government, through the RDA, has awarded the contract for consulting services for the techno-economic study, detailed engineering design and tender document preparation for the upgrading of 327 km of the Manyinga/Jimbe/Mwinilunga (D286/T005) Road in the North-Western Province. Works to upgrade the above mentioned road to bituminous standard will only commence after the finalisation of the feasibility study in 2014.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, I would like to know why the D286 and T005 have been joined. These are stand-alone roads and combining them will only delay the implementation of the project.
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the question by the hon. Member is not very clear. Is he asking why the works on the two roads have been combined?
Could he repeat the question, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Mwinilunga, could you, please, repeat the question for the benefit of the hon. Minister?
Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister said that D286/T005 is under feasibility study. Therefore, why have the works on the two roads been combined? Why have they not been made stand-alone projects?
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, doing both projects at the same time is advantageous and not problematic. The Government will work on the two roads simultaneously and the works might actually be completed at the same time.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I have noted that there are pronouncements about certain projects being worked on in certain areas.
Mr Speaker, in 2011, when His Excellency the President opened Parliament, he gave a catalogue of roads which were to be worked on. These roads are being worked on without feasibility studies.
Sir, are the feasibility studies being announced in some places a delaying tactic? I ask because, in some provinces, roads are being worked on, and yet in others they are yet to be worked on.
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member’s question is very good.
Mr Mulusa: Thank you.
Mr M. H. Malama: However, I will concentrate on the question raised by the hon. Member for Mwinilunga.
Mr Muntanga: Why?
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Hon. Minister, you may proceed.
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member has been observant, he will agree with me that completion of most of the roads whose works started without feasibility studies has delayed. Even if we did award a project to a contractor, he would not commence works without the consultants doing their job first.
Sir, when a contractor moves in to start works on roads where feasibility studies have been conducted, there will be nothing to hold him back from doing the actual work because the designs would have already been made. It, therefore, turns out to be an advantage when feasibility works are carried out. Works will move faster for all those projects which are in phase II because the work which should have been carried out by a consultant has been eliminated.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that road works on roads where feasibility studies have been done will not delay when the contractor moves on site. Why, then, is it that the Monze/Niko Road works have delayed even after feasibility studies have been undertaken?
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, if you have a bonus answer, you may respond.
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, although this is a new question, I want to inform the hon. Member and the nation at large that the Government is just about to award a contractor to work on the Monze/Niko Road.
Mr Speaker, projects such as this road are big and are not the kind where you just wake up and point at any contractor to work on. There is a lot of money involved and we, as a Government, know what we are doing.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr M. H. Malama: Rest assured that the road will be worked on soon.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, why are roads in other provinces like Muchinga …
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Mr Ndalamei: … worked on quickly while the works in other provinces are delayed?
Hon. Government Members: No!
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, that is yet another good question which will help us to explain how we are working.
Sir, it is not good to single out Muchinga Province. If you are looking at the Matumbo/Chama Road, you should also think about the Bottom Road which we are also working on.
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
Interruptions
Mr M. H. Malama: The Government is fair in the manner it is working on these projects. Maybe, you are just thinking of …
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!
Mr M. H. Malama: … the Muyombe/Isoka Road, whose works were very slow during your time, hon. Member.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr M. H. Malama: Immediately after we took over, hon. Member, we have doubled …
The Deputy Chairperson: Please, address the Speaker. Do not address the hon. Member.
Continue, hon. minister.
Mr M. H. Malama: Thank you, Mr Speaker. We have doubled the effort and the project is moving very quickly. While we are looking at that, we are also funding the most expensive project in this country ever, the Kalabo/Mongu Road. So, we are very fair in the manner we are sharing the cake.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
_________
MOTIONS
MOTION OF THANKS
(Debate resumed)
Mr Chitafu (Kafulafuta): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to deliver my Maiden Speech before this august House.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: Sir, allow me to thank the politically astute, versatile and gallant people of Kafulafuta for electing me their representative in this House …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: … and for breaking the political frontiers of the United Party for National Development (UPND) …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: … on the Copperbelt.
Mr Livune: That is right!
Mr Chitafu: I want to assure them that the confidence they have placed in me and the UPND shall never be betrayed, but used to propel development in Kafulafuta Constituency.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: Mr Speaker, I want to thank my wife, children, family and friends for the prayers and encouragement they gave me prior to the adoption, during the campaign and after.
Sir, allow me also to thank the emerging political party, the UPND, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: … which I joined through divine inspiration.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: Allow me, also, to thank my president, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: … his National Management Committee …
Mr Livune: Hear, hear! Aleisa!
Mr Chitafu: … and the entire Copperbelt UPND Executive for adopting me and giving me moral, financial and unflinching support.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: Mr Speaker, as hon. Member of Parliament for Kafulafuta, I am well positioned to effectively spearhead the development of the constituency, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: … especially having closely worked with the grassroots since 1991. Most recently, I worked in the office of the hon. Member of Parliament for the same constituency as a Professional Assistant for three years, from 2008 to 2011.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!
Let there be order. Some of us want to follow the hon. Member’s debate.
You may continue, please.
Mr Chitafu: With this background, I am acquainted with the challenges the people of Kafulafuta Constituency are facing. I want to mention, here, that I know their problems like the back of my palm.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: Mr Speaker, the people of Kafulafuta have asked me to convey to you their challenges that I will be discussing with relevant authorities as we proceed in our quest to develop this nation.
Sir, the people of Kafulafuta Constituency have suffered from awkward management of the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) during the last two seasons …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: … and it has seriously undermined the food production due to the chaotic distribution of inputs.
Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: In most cases, fertilisers were only received in December, much to the chagrin of the farmers. Crop marketing challenges and poor storage facilities at various depots have adversely demoralised small-scale farmers in the constituency. I wish to appeal to the Government to ensure that this year’s farming inputs are distributed on time and that the crop marketing is improved. It is disheartening to note that, as I read this speech, none of the farmers in Kafulafuta, who supplied their maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), have been paid.
Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!
Mr Chitafu: This is not healthy for the farmers.
Mr Speaker, a properly executed FISP economically empowers small-scale farmers and shields them from the cycles of poverty haunting the rural areas. Food security in any country results in political stability.
Sir, although the Government has worked on a paltry 20 km stretch on the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) Border Road, allow me to mention that there are over 600 km of roads which need urgent attention in Kafulafula Constituency. For a long time, these roads have been neglected.
Further, the Government graded the DRC Border Road from Tug Argan Turn Off to Bangwe School, but the stretch from Bangwe to Shilangwa still remains in a deplorable state. The Mundawanga/ Ishitwe Road also remains in ‘bore holes’ …
Mr M. Malama: Boreholes?
Mr Muntanga: Yes!
Mr Chitafu: … and, therefore, requires urgent attention. The Chiwala/Lupiya Ring Road, together with the Maria Chimona/Njelemani Clinic roads also need urgent attention.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: Mr Speaker, there are other feeder roads of economic importance in Kafulafuta that need to be worked on immediately such as the Mishikishi/Mpulabushi Feeder Road, the Chankute/Muteteshi Feeder Road, the Ital-tarrazo/Kansamfu Feeder Road, the Kambowa Turn Off/Kambono Feeder Road, the Kayamboma/Kafubu Feeder Road, Makuku Road, Kapalu, Kuteshanya and Kalembula/Katonte feeder roads.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: All these roads I have mentioned are in very bad shape and equally require urgent attention as they are of economic importance to the people of Kafulafuta Constituency.
My constituency also has a number of bridges that require urgent attention. Bridges such as the Lubendo/Kafubu Bridge and the Kafulafuta Bridge near Mutaba, which were constructed in the 1940s and are showing signs of collapsing of late, need to be worked on. If that happens, it will mean cutting off the shorter route to Ndola via Tug-Argan which all the small-scale farmers use to ferry their produce to their market.
Mr Speaker, the Lubendo/Kafubu Bridge is very important to the residents of Mwatishi Ward as it offers them a shorter route to their markets in town as it is only a distance of 5 km unlike the longer route which is a stretch of 40 km to the same destination. These and many other bridges need to be worked on to ensure that access to the main road is achieved.
Mr Speaker, the people of Kafulafuta are in dire need of health facilities since the few health centres that we have cannot meet the needs of the ever-growing population. Some people are subjected to walking over 20km to access medical attention from the nearest health centre. It is for this reason that I make an earnest appeal to the Government to consider this as a matter of urgency and construct health posts in the following areas: Chief Chiwala’s Palace, Chief Nkambo’s Palace and in Kansamfu, Fipembele, Muteteshi Mpulabushi, Katonte, Ishitwe, Kakwela, Ngosa and Mbotwa areas.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: The people of Kafulafuta also want to know the Government’s position on the delayed completion and opening of the Masaiti District Hospital. The people are eagerly waiting for the first ever district hospital to be opened as this will greatly improve health delivery in the district.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Mr Chitafu: The situation is that most serious illnesses are referred to Ndola Hospital which is usually congested.
Mr Speaker, the completion and opening of this hospital will drastically reduce congestion at Ndola Central Hospital. In the same vein, I wish to ask the Government to upgrade Njelemani Clinic in Mwatishi Ward to a mini hospital. This is because of the increased population that has come about due to the establishment of industries in the areas. In this regard, it will also be a welcome development to upgrade Mutaba Health Centre to a mini hospital. If this is done, it will greatly benefit the people in the area and help to decongest the Ndola Central Hospital.
Mr Speaker, Kafulafuta only benefited about 20 per cent from the Rural Electrification Programme. However, I would like to appeal to the Government to help to connect electricity to the remaining areas such as Mutaba, Bangwe, Mbotwa, Chikumbi and Lupiya. Electricity should also be connected to institutional houses, especially in schools and clinics at Miengwe Resettlement Scheme, the Kambowa Blind Centre, the Chikumbi, Shilangwa and Lupiya Schools as well as the clinics.
Sir, as regards water sanitation, there is a serious shortage in Kafulafuta Constituency, especially in Chief Nkambo’s area, which has very few boreholes. I, therefore, appeal to the Government to quickly consider Chief Nkambo’s area as the hardest hit area by water shortage.
Mr Speaker, Kafulafuta Constituency is the only constituency in the province that has not fully benefited from the programme of constructing high schools, a programme that was started by the late President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa’s Government. May his soul rest in peace. Five years down the line, Masangano High School, which was planned, is still at slab level while all the other schools that were started at the same time have been completed and opened. For example, schools such as Masaiti, Mpongwe and Lufwanyama high schools, just to mention a few, have been opened.
Sir, we, therefore, wonder why Masangano High School still remains at slab level. I would like to take this opportunity to ask the Government to urgently do something concerning this school. If there are any issues with the contractors, the Government should step in and correct the situation. I implore the Government to quickly address this matter.
Mr Speaker, to date, some schools have been roofed, but they do not have windows and doors, let alone a smooth floor. I, therefore, appeal to the Government to quickly complete these schools, namely Muwaya, Kabanga, Kansamfu, Ishitwe, Chitibuke and Katonte basic schools. Further, the shortage of teachers’ accommodation is another thorny issue in the constituency. It is very shocking to find schools where teachers have turned classrooms into homes. As if that is not enough, teachers are subjected to sharing these classroom-turned-into-homes, with teachers of the opposite sex.
Mr Speaker, the situation is very serious and appalling. In this arrangement, there is absolutely no privacy. No wonder most teachers are demotivated and run away from these schools, leaving the poor rural pupils without teachers. There is, therefore, an urgent need to address this problem of teachers’accomodation in the constituency if quality education, as advocated for by the Government, is to be attained.
Sir, the constituency has two centres for the visiually impaired brothers and sisters. I would like to appeal to the Government to come up with a deliberate policy to economically empower them in these centres, just as the case was during the United National Independence Party (UNIP) regime.
Mr Speaker, the northern half of my constituency is endowed with rich mineral deposits such as limestone. In the recent past, the constituency has turned out to be an emerging industrial site. As such, manufacturing companies have come in. However, with this development, also comes negative …
Mr Chilangwa rose.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order! Order!
You do not raise a point of order when somebody is giving a maiden speech.
Hon. Member, you may proceed.
Hon. Opposition Member: Where is he from?
Mr Chitafu: … effects on the environment. In this regard, I call upon relevant authorities to quickly investigate the conduct of some of these companies …
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Hon. Deputy Ministers, please, consult less loudly.
Hon. Member, you may proceed.
Mr Chitafu: … as regards pollution and the alleged violation of safety rules. Sir, health and safety policies are cardinal in any business environment.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: Sir, the Inspector from the Mines and the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) should ensure that both life and the environment are protected at all costs.
Hon. Opposition Members: That is right.
Mr Chitafu: Mr Speaker, compulsory safety is a must in any organisation, and non-compliance should be met with adequate deterrent measures or punishment according to stipulated regulations. I would like to reiterate that the companies operating in this area should be thoroughly investigated to ascertain their adherence to the health and safety regulations.
Sir, I would also like to appeal to the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to investigate the alleged low salaries and wages being offered by some companies and the unfair dismissal of workers.
Mr Speaker, allow me to also talk about the economic situation in this country. The economic landscape is dotted with a lot of economic casualties, especially among the vulnerable groups in Kafulafuta Constituency. This has been heightened by the Government’s cruel and callous decision to remove subsidies in one single move.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: Sir, the Government’s decision to remove subsidies, especially on fuel, has resulted in people’s lives being reduced to total misery. This is because fuel is the engine of the economy and any increment has a multiplier effect on the economy. The sky-rocketing prices of essential commodities have also had harsh economic ramifications on the poor people in my constituency who are now barely struggling to survive. People find it extremely difficult to understand how a Government that came into power through pro-poor campaign promises could be so vicious and uncaring.
Hon. MMD Member: Donchi kubeba!
Mr Chitafu: Mr Speaker, I urge the Government to get back to its manifesto and implement measures it promised to rescue Zambia from the stranglehold of poverty. The gap between the poor and rich keeps widening. So, where is the much-talked about programme to bring about equitable distribution of income and wealth? Furthermore, the tendency by the Government to threaten people with political and economic sanctions, if not voted for during by-elections, is a serious indictment against the PF Government’s commitment to upholding democratic values, freedom of conscience, expression, assembly, movement and association, that protects every citizen from any discrimination.
Mr Speaker, the political climate obtaining in this country is worrisome. While the PF Government fought for the upholding of true democratic values of peace, democracy and justice, it as become repressive by restricting the freedom of assembly, thus, stifling political activities of the opposition political parties. This is a slur on the image of the country because Zambia is an icon of multi-party democracy in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Region and beyond.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: Sir, Zambia is also respected as a trail blazer in the promotion of democracy and human rights. The Government must understand that in a democratic governance, the government is the chief agent of the state while the opposition is the soul of any democracy.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, the major problem confronting this nation is injustice which has manifested itself in the greatest dishonesty, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chitafu: … deprivation and marginalisation. The Government should critically look back at its governance in the past two years, and for Christ’s sake, revisit its approach to these issues.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me …
Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to raise a point of order. You have guided this House that the answers we give must be accurate. My phones outside are jammed with calls from the people of Milenge following the question I asked concerning the Mansa/Milambo Road. In his answer, the hon. Minister said that road was worked on last year, confusing it with the Kasanka/Milenge Road. The Mansa/Milambo Road has never been worked on.
The Deputy Chairperson: May you make your point of order, please.
Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, are the hon. Ministers in that ministry in order to be ignorant about what is happening in their ministry and, therefore, mislead this House?
The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the point of order has, unfortunately, been raised very belatedly. If you want, you may raise a formal question so that the hon. Minister can answer.
May the hon. Member for Luena Constituency continue, please.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing the people of Luena to add their voice to the debate on the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Speech. I have divided my interrogation of the President’s Speech in two categories. Firstly, I want to comment on some issues in the speech that he touched on. Secondly, I want to touch on some issues that are of critical importance, but were omitted in his speech.
Mr Speaker, straight away, I would like to go to page 3 and 4. There is an appreciation by His Excellency the President of the role of Parliament and its constitutional mandate to ensure that the Government is kept in check or on track in its provision of services to the people of Zambia. This is a positive step requiring our commendation. However, in a democratic dispensation, this role entails checks and balances coupled with constructive criticism. His Excellency the President and the Government should create an enabling environment for us, as Parliamentarians, to exercise our inalienable democratic and human rights of freedom of speech, assembly, expression and choice. We, as Parliamentarians, have not seen this in the two years of the PF Government’s existence. The obnoxious interpretation and application …
Mr Masumba: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena in order to come in this House in a nightdress?
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: My serious ruling is that I have not seen any nightdress. What you see as a nightdress is not seen as such by the Chair.
Laughter
Continue, hon. Member for Luena.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, the problem is that somebody likes staring at me.
Laughter
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, the obnoxious interpretation and application of the Public Order Act by the police must come to an end, if we are to exercise the rights that I mentioned and carry out our mandate as Parliamentarians.
Mr Speaker, I would like to comment on the Eurobond, which is mentioned on page 5 of the President’s Address. My concern is about the debt burden. You will recall that during the time of the late President Mwanawasa, SC., and former hon. Minister of Finance, Mr Ng’andu Magande, we were required to tighten our belts so that we could qualify for the Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Completion Point and get debt relief. We tightened our belts and sacrificed. For sure, we got to the HIPC Completion Point and our debt was pardoned by the co-operating partners and lenders.
Mr Speaker, therefore, it is not right for the Government to just borrow when it does not even a plan on how to use the money. After borrowing, the Government put the money in a bank and is only planning now on how it is going to use it. This will just increase our debt burden as a nation. I do not know where our national debt is right now. It had come down to US$500 million, but now I hear it is somewhere between US$2 billion and US$3 billion.
Interruptions
Ms Imenda: That makes me very uncomfortable. We are planting thorns for our children just when we had come out of it. I wish the hon. Minister of Finance was here, but I know he is listening somewhere. This is very unhealthy for this country.
Mr Speaker, on page 6, His Excellency the President talked about adherence to the Vision 2030 and the revised Sixth National Development Plan. I think this is commendable and it is good for continuity because you will recall that, in the President’s last Address, we were not sure where the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was taking us in as far as this was concerned. Seeing as this has been factored in this time around, I think that is commendable.
Mr Speaker, as regards poverty alleviation through rural development, we want pronouncements to be matched with action and not just be rhetoric. Can the Government, for once, be serious. We are concerned about rural development because most of us here come from rural areas and our constituencies are very poor. If these rural areas were given the developmental impetus and attention that they need, this country could really progress. We know that the source of raw materials for industries lies in rural areas. Hon. Sichinga is not here, but he talked about clusters and so on and so forth. Clusters need raw materials from the rural areas.
Mr Speaker, on page 8, His Excellency the President talked about staff housing in rural areas. On behalf of the people of Luena, I want to mention that we are very badly affected by staff shortage. The lack of accommodation is partly to blame for this. The staff establishment in many schools is very low and when you ask why, you are told that the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is willing to send teachers to these schools, but there is no accommodation for them. As a result, you find only one teacher to cater for Grades 1 to 7. So, I hope that the Government, through the National Budget, will address this issue.
Mr Speaker, I want to suggest something for the Western Province, Luena in particular. I am sure that the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is listening out there. First of all, we should establish who owns the land on which schools are built. His Excellency the President talked about public-private partnership (PPP), and I do not know what people understand by this PPP. However, once we establish whose land those schools are built on, it is possible for us, here, and other people who are working to build houses around these schools for teachers to rent. Teachers are paid housing allowance by the ministry. Therefore, this will enable them to rent these houses. That is something worth looking at.
Mr Speaker, still on page 8, I want to address the issue of the King Lewanika University. I would like to see something in the Budget towards this project as opposed to mere pronouncements which mean nothing. The experience as regards the stadium in the Western Province should not repeat itself. After people cleared land in readiness for the stadium, His Excellency the President was expected to ground break. However, he went there with no intention to do so, but only to find a scapegoat.
Laughter
Ms Imenda: He started asking for a pick axe. The terrain of the Western Province is sandy. It is like the Sahara Desert. Do you need a pick axe?
Hon. Opposition Members: No!
Mr Muntanga: No, my dear!
Ms Imenda: No! You need a shovel or a hoe. He said that, because you have no pick axe, I am not going to ground break it and he walked away.
Laughter
Ms Imenda: There was no intention to ground break to facilitate the construction of the stadium.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, page 9 addresses the issue of the rehabilitation of university infrastructure. This is welcome and we want to see it reflected in the Budget. The hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, who is no longer paying attention, recalls when I said that I almost shed tears when I went to the University of Zambia (UNZA).
Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I apologise to my colleague for disturbing her flow of thought. Is the Government in order not to provide the pick axe, to date, which made His Excellency the President fail to launch the beginning of the construction of the stadium in Mongu? Is it in order to keep quiet and not find that pick axe till now? I seek your serious ruling.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the pick axe will be provided at the launch.
Laughter
The hon. Member for Luena may proceed.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I was saying that the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, who is now paying attention, recalls that when we talked about university infrastructure and the deplorable state it is in, I mentioned that I could even shed tears and he discouraged me from doing so. Can the Government make sure that university infrastructure is looked into and the rehabilitation takes place. We want to see something reflected in the Budget when it comes through.
Mr Speaker, on page 14, on extension services, I just want to mention that there are no extension services in Luena. It is one of the questions I have to attend to every time I visit the people of Luena. I want to register that there are no extension services even though the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock is not represented in the Chamber as I speak.
Mr Speaker, on page 15, there is a mention of Luena Farming Block. I thought that this House was aware that I am the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena and that there is only one Luena. May I find out who misappropriated this name to some other place called Luena Farm Block? May I know the genesis of this name being taken somewhere else and misappropriated from Luena Constituency in the Western Province. I want some clarification.
Mr Speaker, still on page 15 is the issue of irrigation and construction of dams. I want the planning authority to plan this properly because it looks like there is no synchrony between the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection and the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Resources.
Mr Speaker, as a result, you find that when the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection gives out farm plots and the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development has to create dams, it is found that there are only two or three beneficiaries because the dam is created in an area that is inaccessible to the rest of the farm plots.
For example, you may find that the farm plot for Hon. Mwaliteta, who is dosing, …
Laughter
Ms Imenda: … is by the …
Laughter
Mr Mwaliteta: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, I am seated here trying to write up a reply to Hon. Muntanga’s note to me, and yet my elder sister is insinuating that I am dosing. Is she in order to mislead the House and the nation that I am sleeping when I am awake? I need your serious ruling.
The Deputy Chairperson: To the extent that you were awake, she is out of order.
Continue, hon. Member for Luena.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I was saying that you will find that the dam will only benefit those farms that are in front of others. For example, if Hon. Mwaliteta’s farm was in front of Hon. Masumba’s, Hon. Masumba would only have access to the dam through Hon. Mwaliteta’s farm.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
May the hon. Member concentrate on debating instead of dragging other hon. Members’ names into the debate.
You may proceed.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, let us take the example of the Caprivi Strip when planning our dams. The Colonial Government realised that South West Africa, which is now called Namibia, did not have access to the fresh water of the Zambezi River and being a desert with no rivers, they created the Caprivi Strip so that the people of Namibia could have access to fresh water without having to pass through either Botswana or Zambia. That is how we should plan our dams. Let us make our dams in an arrow shaped form so that a cluster of farms could have access to the dams without having to pass through a neighbouring farm. Could the planners, please, take that into account.
Mr Speaker, I noticed that rivers are dry in places like the Southern Province.
Mr Sing’ombe: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to rise on a very serious point of order. Is the Government of the Republic of Zambia, under the PF Government, in order to reduce this House to having onlyfour hon. Cabinet Ministers in attendance? I seek your serious ruling.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that, notwithstanding the fact that there are only a few hon. Cabinet Ministers, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Four!
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
There shall be order in the House. Do not tempt me to name you, starting with the one who is disturbing the Chair. The serious ruling is that the business of the House continues notwithstanding the fact that we only have four hon. Cabinet Ministers in the House. Be that as it may, I think that it is important to mention that when we are sitting, business of Parliament takes precedence. Therefore, we will expect a change in the right direction.
You may continue.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, for lack of time, may I now go to the issues that …
Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Ms Imenda: Iwe?
Ms Kapata: Order!
Laughter
Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member, wearing a dress like a maternity dress, and debating on the Floor in order …
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
A ruling was already made that it is not a maternity dress.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Make your point of order.
Ms Kapata: Is she in order to talk about what was done in the Caprivi Strip without laying the evidence on the Table? I need your serious ruling before she diverts to another topic.
The Deputy Chairperson: To the extent that she used the Caprivi Strip as an example, as she debated, she is definitely in order. She was merely advising that in constructing dams, access should be availed to as many farmers as possible.
You were in order. You may proceed.
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, let me now go to the issues that I feel are of great importance and which I feel that His Excellency the President omitted. The first one is the Barosteland Agreement of 1964.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, ignoring it will not make it disappear. For example, if you have a disease like tuberculosis and wish that it could disappear, it will not. Therefore, ignoring the Barotseland Agreement, no matter how many people you arrest, will not make it disappear.
Mr Mwaliteta: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
A point of order is raised.
Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, some few days ago or last week, we were guided by The Hon. Mr Speaker that what we are discussing here is the President’s Speech. We are not discussing the Barotse Agreement issue which His Excellency the President did not touch. Is she in order to start talking about the Barotse Agreement when His Excellency the President did not touch it? I need your serious ruling because our colleagues have a tendency of diverting from real issues to trivial issues to try to win popularity where they come from. I need your serious ruling.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
The serious ruling is that you cannot raise a second point of order on the same speaker. You may proceed, Ms Imenda.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I would like to suggest to the PF Government to engage the Barotse Royal Establishment (BRE) and the people of the Western Province. Arbitrary arrests and sending of troops to the area just inflames and hardens the whole struggle. On the same issue, I want to comment on what the Registrar of Societies said. He said that the Linyungandambo is not registered. I would like to find out whether the Cha Cha Cha Movement was registered. I wish the hon. Minister of Finance was here, because he was there during the Cha Cha Cha era. I want to find out …
Mr Kampyongo rose to raise a point of order.
Hon. Opposition Members: Continue!
Ms Imenda: … whether the African National Congress (ANC), Umkhonto we Sizwe was registered. I want to find out whether the Mau Mau in Kenya was registered.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, another thing is, when did the Government win treason cases? Our history shows that these cases are a waste of time because there was the case of the Black Mamba and the Government lost it, there was the case of Zero Option and the Government lost it. Therefore, the Government will lose this case of the Linyungandambo.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, in conclusion …
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
I think that we should guide each other. The tendency of debating through points of order is always discouraged.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: That is the practice always. There is no need to express surprise. We always discourage debating through points of order, which are allowed and at the discretion of the Hon. Mr Speaker. Therefore, when you stand to raise a point of order and it is not granted, you should sit down.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
This is because when you continue standing, all the Hon. Mr Speaker will do is look elsewhere so that the point is driven home.
You may proceed, Hon. Imenda.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I want to mention that it is always good to recognise any improvement no matter how marginal it is. I just want to educate this House on a very famous neurosurgeon by the name of Dr Ben Carson. Dr Ben Carson was a very dull child and he had resigned himself to being dull. However, one day, somebody recognised him when he raised his hand to answer a question, which he answered correctly. From that time, he began to beat everybody in class and now he is the best neurosurgeon in the world. Because of that, I want to recognise an improvement no matter how small it is. On that basis, I want to recognise an improvement in the manner His Excellency the President presented his speech. I commend him for the sober manner he carried out this task which was befitting of the decorum of this House.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, at least, he listened to the criticism that came from this House last year. It is my sincere hope that he will do even better next time. There is an adage which says, “Why settle for good when better is available and the best is possible?”
Mr Speaker, finally, to those who crossed the Floor and fate fell on them because they did not come back to this House, and to the others who crossed, I have this poem, which is taken from Shakespeare, to say to them:
“All that glitters is not gold;
Often you have heard that told;
Many a man his life has sold but my outside to behold. Gilded tombs do worms enfold.
Had you been as wise as bold; your limbs in judgement old. Your answer had not been in’scroll’d; fare you well, your suit is cold ...”
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka (Lubasenshi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak. From the outset, let me join His Excellency the President and the hon. Members of Parliament in remembering the late Hon. Kennedy Sakeni who, indeed, worked hard for this country. May his soul rest in peace. May I also welcome the new hon. Members of Parliament who have been elected to join us in this honourable House, especially my very good friend, Hon. Rueben Phiri Mtolo.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President raised a number of issues in his speech with regard to the achievements and challenges that we are concerned about as a country. Before I look at specific issues in the President’s Speech, let me say, from the outset, that we need to agree, at this stage, that there will be no meaningful economic development and poverty reduction in this country as long as the challenges of rural development are not addressed.
Mr Speaker, if you have followed the questions that the hon. Members have been raising, you will notice that most of them have to do with the livelihoods of the people in rural areas. The questions are either about schools, clinics or feeder roads. The answer to these questions is simple. From the responses given, one can deduce that there is a very serious bias in the allocation of resources towards urban areas at the expense of rural areas.
Mr Speaker, when His Excellency the President came to this House, I sincerely expected him to also raise the issues of where we are in terms of poverty reduction in this country.
Mr Speaker, the Government’s official reports, particularly the Progress Report on the 2012 Sixth National Development Plan, which has now been revised, indicate that poverty levels are still standing at more than 80 per cent in rural areas.
Mr Speaker, if the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) left the poverty levels at 78 per cent in rural areas, I expected His Excellency the President to indicate how the PF will reduce poverty in rural areas within two years or at the end of five years, given that there is a serious misallocation of resources in rural areas that are, sometimes, left out completely.
Mr Speaker, not too long ago in this House, we approved a Motion to accelerate the attainment of the millennium development goals (MDGs). I, therefore, expected His Excellency the President to make a very clear linkage among the PF Manifesto, the Revised Sixth National Development Plan and the MDGs. To my surprise, I heard him talk about the MDGs in New York when he did not talk about them when he addressed this House.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I raise this issue because it is important. I would have liked to see a very clear linkage between key performance indicators and, particularly, the MDG No. 1. What steps are going to be taken into account to ensure that we accelerate the attainment of some of those MDGs and link them to some of the pronouncements that were made by His Excellency the President?
Sir, yes, it is very important that His Excellency the President raised the issue of the Eurobond, particularly, on page 5 of the President’s Speech. However, the question is: What is our current external debt stock? Hon. Imenda mentioned a certain figure of between US$2 and US$3 billion. I want to tell the Government that the rate at which it is borrowing is very frightening.
Interruptions
Mr Mucheleka: We are seriously sliding into another debt trap.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Yes, it is important to work on the roads. It is important to implement the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, Pave Zambia 2,000 km, and so on and so forth. I agree and I have no problem with that. However, what the Government needs to do is come out clearly and tell the Zambian people that it is actually borrowing money to implement these ambitious socio-economic projects. Like that, the future generations will be responsible to repay the debt. We should do that because we are almost standing at US$4 billion external debt stock. This is before I even talk about the internal or domestic borrowing. The hon. Minister of Finance can confirm that.
Mr Speaker, if we are borrowing money and, indeed, putting it in all these social programmes, what, then, are we doing to ensure that we mobilise our own domestic resources as much as possible? This is where His Excellency the President talked about the mining sector on page 30 of his Speech. I agree with His Excellency the President on the diversification of the mining sector and also the small-scale miners coming on board. I agree and I have no problem with that. I support him completely. However, what about the existing mining activities? What is the Government doing about increasing domestic resource mobilisation through the mining companies that are investing in Zambia?
Sir, I appreciate that Zambia has signed up to the Extractive Industry Transparent Initiative, but what does that mean for us, as a nation? The situation in the mining towns, today, is like they are coming from a war. What has changed about them since the coming in of mine investors? The situation has remained the same. Added onto the failure of the Government to increase revenue through the mining activities is the fact it also does not seem to have a policy to encourage mining companies to come up with serious corperate social responsibility programmes in these mining towns. Is it really fulfilling a corporate-social responsibility when a company donates an ambulance, puts up a small stadium in a constituency or sponsors a football team?
Sir, given the huge profits that these companies are making, they can do much more. Look at the conditions of service of the miners. They are still casual labourers, as they were under the MMD and that is why the people on the Copperbelt rose against the party. Are the local suppliers in the mines linked to those economic activities? The answer is, no. What about the environmental degradation? Do we even know how we are going to ensure that our people do not contract diseases from the pollution taking place because nothing is being done about that? Instead, we are borrowing money to further subsidise the mining activities, and yet they should help to generate sufficient resources through the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) so that money raised is deployed into other sectors of the economy in order for us to reduce pressure on external borrowing. When we talk about creating fiscal space, we should be doing it through our own resources as opposed to external borrowing.
Sir, I would like to advise our colleagues in the Government to tell the Zambians the truth, which is that they are actually borrowing excessively. The Government does not even seem to care about how it will repay that debt.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I want to put it on record that governance is a preamble for sustained economic growth and poverty reduction, and I have said this before. When a country begins to slide into lawlessness, just know that anything else might become a luxury. The issues of governance are so critical. When we raise these issues, it means they are important and the Executive wing of the Government should listen.
Sir, regarding human rights, Part III of our Constitution, indeed, grants every Zambian the fundamental human rights and freedoms that cannot be taken away. It is so shameful that where I come from, in the Northern Province, certain people, depending on where they are from are not be allowed into the province.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: That is very sad and does not represent the view of the good people of the Northern Province.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: I am free to go to any province as much as anyone is free to visit the Northern Province.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: The Northern Province …
Mr M. H. Malama: Ba Mucheleka mulebepa ubufi!
Mr Mucheleka: … has very good people.
What we should be talking about and working towards is how we are going to strengthen the institutions of governance. Our preoccupation must not be to weaken. Mr Speaker, I was saddened to see my President, seated right where you are, putting aside his Speech to defend the Constitution in its current form. That was very depressing for me because not too long ago, when my President was in the Opposition, he was seriously against the current Constitution. If he was against it then, he must, now, demonstrate leadership by, indeed, facilitating the formulation of a Constitution which can answer to the aspiration of the Zambian people.
Mr Speaker, at this stage, we should not be talking about the Public Order Act. This issue should have been buried by now.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I reluctantly rise on this very important point of order. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to insinuate that it was wrong for His Excellency the President to defend the current Constitution, which he has sworn to defend, as required by law? Is he in order to question His Excellency the President’s defence of the current legitimate Constitution? I seek your serious ruling.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
The serious ruling is that, in this House, people enjoy the freedom to express themselves and I know that the Government, at an appropriate time, will provide a response to that. I hope you have been taking notes, as he has been speaking.
Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.
[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was talking about the Public Order Act. I said that we should not spend two years discussing the same issue. We should have moved on and made progress by now. It is a serious governance issue that has to be addressed.
Mr Speaker, on page 13 of the President’s Speech, His Excellency the President talked about …
Interruptions
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, it is very unfortunate that there is only one hon. Cabinet Minister in the House …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: How are they going to respond?
The Deputy Chairperson: Proceed with your debate.
Laughter
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the agricultural sector is the engine of our economic growth in this country, given that the majority of our people are in the agricultural sector, especially in the rural areas. If you want to have economic growth that can be linked to poverty reduction, then, you need to adequately fund the agricultural sector.
Sir, the agricultural sector is not synonymous with the FISP. It is much more than that. If we agree that Zambia is a signatory to the 2003 Maputo Declaration, then, we need to have, at least, a minimum of 10 per cent allocation of the National Budget to the agricultural sector so that we can have sufficient resources to fund the other equally important programmes in the agricultural sector as opposed to the FISP alone.
Mr Speaker, with adequate funding to the agricultural sector, it is possible that the current economic growth of 7 per cent could grow to 10 per cent gross domestic product (GDP) per annum. It would also have greater positive impact on economic growth and development than it does now with the current approach.
Sir, the MMD was kicked out because it took the rural people for granted and …
Hon. MMD Members: Aah!
Mr Mucheleka: … the same language is being used by the PF today. If the PF is pro-poor, then, why has it failed to come up with a rural development policy?
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, we moved a Motion, which was adopted, earlier in the year. We have been waiting for a rural development policy which the PF Government has failed to come up with. I am ready to do that on its behalf for free so that we move away from this rhetoric of using people in the rural areas.
Sir, through the people of Lubansenshi, I would like to say that no amount of political rhetoric will ever cheat us. The Government must mean what it says when it talks about rural development.
Mr Speaker, the Government is supposed to create linkages when dealing with rural development. While I agree that the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is a good thing, is the Government aware that the people in the rural areas are completely left out? How much money has been given to the feeder roads?
Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: The Government is struggling to give answers when asked about rural roads.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Members on your left side will not pass the Budget if it does not put sufficient resources for feeder roads.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, it seems that whenever it comes to issues pertaining to the rural areas, there is either no money or there are delays in funding …
Mr Simbao: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, is the Chief Whip in order to allow a situation where the Cabinet seems to be belittling the Business of this House?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simbao: There are only three hon. Cabinet Ministers out of twenty. This is my twelfth year in this House and I have never seen such a thing.
Is the Chief Whip in order, Sir?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Deputy Chairperson: I think a similar ruling has been made before. It is not in order for Cabinet hon. Ministers not to be present when the House is sitting and by the same token, it is not in order for other sections of the House to be empty when the House is sitting.
Continue, hon. Member for Lubansenshi.
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, we are now in the fourth quarter of the year and most of the constituencies in the rural areas have not received the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the farmers are never paid on time. Farmers in Lubansenshi have to spend days on end …
Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order.
Sir, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi, who is debating, in order to ‘inshinuate’ …
Laughter
Hon. Opposition Members: ‘inshinuate’?
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
You can ignore mother tongue interference.
Proceed, hon. Member.
Laughter
Mr Chisala: … that if the Government does not comply with what he has suggested, then, the hon. Members on your left shall not pass the Budget?
Interruptions
Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, the 2006 edition of the Members Hand book, clause 32, states:
“Members should not use words containing insinuations and offensive unparliamentary expressions. When the Chair holds that a particular word or expression is unparliamentary, it should be withdrawn immediately without any attempt to raise debate over it.”
Therefore, Mr Speaker, is he in order to incite the hon. Members of Parliament not to pass the Budget? I need your extremely serious ruling.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
The serious ruling is that to the extent that the alleged incitement was made in a vacuum, he is in order.
Continue, hon. Member for Lubasenshi.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, why do we have to make our people in the rural areas suffer? The CDF to rural-based communities is not released on time. Farmers have to spend sleepless nights at various banks …
Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, allow me to apologise to Hon. Mucheleka, who is debating so well.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mtolo: His debate is so educative that the nation and the Government need to hear it.
However, in the absence of the hon. Minister of Finance, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, the hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development, …
Interruptions
Mr Mtolo: … the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, …
Laughter
Mr Mtolo: … the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, …
Hon. Opposition Members: The Vice-President.
Mr Mtolo: … including His Honour the Vice-President and the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Shame.
Mr Mtolo: … is Hon. Mucheleka, who is debating so well and using powerful language, in order to continue debating without addressing the Government? I find this out of order. Is he in order to continue talking to himself?
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
The serious ruling is that notwithstanding the fact that the Government is thinly represented at Cabinet level, the hon. Member is nonetheless in order to continue his address because his it goes beyond this House.
Continue, hon. Member.
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would sincerely like to appeal to the Executive wing of the Government to reflect on what it wants to do for people in the rural areas. I want to advise the Government that time is running out. It has entered its third year of governance and the people of Zambia, particularly in Lubansenshi, will not be cheated by political rhetoric. The Government should show that it means well. When it talks about pro-poor…
The Deputy Chairperson: The word ‘cheated’ is unparliamentary. May you substitute it with another word?
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I will withdraw the word ‘cheated’ and replace it with “misled.” Zambians will not be misled. The Government should put in place …
Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, today is a very sad day for me in that we have no Government in place, …
Mr Muntanga: Which has run away!
Mr Nkombo: … at the moment, and we are busy debating the State of the Nation Address, in which His Excellency the President made lofty statements to include that of unity, peace and human rights. My point of order is on the hon. Minister of Health.
Interruptions
Mr Nkombo: He is around. A month ago, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo, in his wisdom, decided to give up his ministerial position bestowed upon him by the PF. It has come to light that while he is here legislating, the Ministry of Health have transferred his wife from his normal domicillity in Kalabo to Mongu as a way of punishing him.
Hon. Government Members interjected.
Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I need your protection.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Interruptions
Mr Nkombo: Can you stay without your wife?
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
Allow the hon. Member to make his point of order.
Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, is the Government in order to separate Mrs Miyutu from her lawfully wedded husband, Hon. Miyutu, just to punish him for exercising his democratic God-given right on who to associate with? I seek your ruling so that the Government can stop this type of conduct.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Time and again, the Chair has guided through rulings ...
Mr M. H. Malama interjected.
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Deputy Minister, that is highly inappropriate.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
I was saying that, time and again, and through rulings of the Chair, guidance has been given that there are three arms of the Government, namely the Executive, the Judiciary and the Legislature. While not belittling the point of order that has been made by the hon. Member, I hasten to add that some of these matters can be dealt with administratively through the appropriate arm of the Government. My ruling, therefore, is that it is not appropriate for The Hon. Mr Speaker to be drawn into making rulings on things that are purely administrative and happening in another arm of the Government.
May the hon. Member for Lubansenshi, continue.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, there is too much poverty and inequality in this country.
Mr Mwamba: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mwamba: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament on the Floor, who has mentioned that the people of Kasama have declared Kasama a no-go-area for any Opposition leader in order to mislead the nation? I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.
Interruptions
The Deputy Chairperson: To the extent that we have not heard any declaration to that effect from Bashi Lubemba, …
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: … it is difficult to drag the Chair into making a ruling at this point.
Continue, hon. Member.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, there is so much poverty and inequality in this country and these issues have to be addressed now. We may do it when it is too late.
Sir, finally, I want to also appeal to this Government to address the issues of good governance. I want to remind the Government and, through you, the nation, that we cannot compromise issues of governance. Governance, I want to repeat, is a preamble to sustained economic growth and development. Anything else might come out as a luxury because if we slide into lawlessness, where even our own officers, the civil servants, the police and officers from the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA), compete on who is more of a cadre than the other, then, we should know that we have reached very dangerous levels.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I want to congratulate the vice-president of the MMD, who tore the President’ Speech last year, …
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: … on telling the Government that a President’s Speech that is given when opening Parliament is very important.
Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: As a result of that, this year, the speech was read in totality, which is a very good thing. It showed that the dignity of the House was maintained. The question of governance, which His Excellency the President mentioned is very important. We are all aware that governance, if not properly done, can bring about chaos. I know His Excellency the President was very particular about talking about violence. It is not the duty of His Excellency the President to actually mention individual items. It is even a pity that the hon. Cabinet Ministers are not here. This speech is a framework and each hon. Minister will have to answer and support His Excellency the President. If you do not support these programmes, people will start saying that you are telling bufi, meaning lies.
Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, on the left side, we are belabouring the issue of the non-presence of hon. Cabinet Ministers. Is the Chief Whip, who is the custodian of discipline in the House, in order to sit there quietly, …
Mr Kakoma: Comfortably!
Prof. Lungwangwa: … when eighteen hon. Cabinet Ministers are not in the House?
Is he in order not to assure you, Sir, that, from today onwards, what has happened this afternoon, will not be repeated. This is because eighteen hon. Cabinet Ministers are not present in the House when we are debating a very serious matter concerning the state of the nation.
I need your serious ruling, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: To the extent that the Chief Whip is also the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House this afternoon, the point relating to the absence of eighteen hon. Cabinet Ministers has been taken note of. It is my hope that we will see a change from tomorrow. As I earlier mentioned, this occurrence is not healthy and is inappropriate.
Continue, hon. Member for Kalomo Central.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Although there is this problem of hon. Cabinet Ministers not being here, I want to refer to the speech given by Hon. Dr Kaingu. I remember that he stated that this party was not ready to form the Government and that, one day, we would be surprised to find they had run away.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: I am not sure if this is the beginning of their running away.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: However, if they have not run away, we hope that they can still come back.
Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, indeed, with a heavy heart, I rise on a very serious point of order. Hon. Muntanga, who is the debater on the Floor, is lamenting the absence of hon. Cabinet Ministers. As I was checking on your left hand side, I realised that even hon. Deputy Ministers are slowly running away.
Laughter
Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, this is unprecedented. Is Hon. Muntanga, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central, in order to continue debating in the presence of a semi vacuum Cabinet where the hon. Minister of Finance, who raised this Motion, is absent? The hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health and the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport are not all here.
Ms Kalima: Shame!
Mr L. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, as though that was not enough, the hon. Minister of Justice, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, including a number of hon. Deputy Ministers, are all not here.
Sir, my heart bleeds. Is Hon. Muntanga in order to continue debating in such a semi vacuum?
I need your serious ruling, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that notwithstanding the fact that you are raising the point of order with a heavy and bleeding heart, …
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: … you are merely flogging a dead horse because a similar point of order was raised and a ruling was made. However, I sympathise that the heart is heavy and is bleeding.
Laughter
Continue, hon. Member for Kalomo Central.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I will speak and I think the Zambian people will hear that the Government has run away from Parliament.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: The issue of …
Mr Mwaliteta: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Muntanga: Perhaps, I can promote Hon. Mwaliteta to become an hon. Minister.
Laughter
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!
A point of order is raised.
However, before I can give Hon. Mwaliteta the opportunity to raise his point of order, let me, perhaps, guide the House. The tendency of debating through points of order is, unfortunately, getting out of hand. Therefore, do not be surprised if you are ignored the next time you attempt to raise a point of order.
Proceed, with your point of order, Hon. Mwaliteta.
Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, when we are debating in this House, the nation is listening. Is Hon. Muntanga, my uncle, in order to mislead the nation that the Government …
Mr Livune: But your uncle has no colour.
Laughter
Mr Mwaliteta: … has run away from Parliament when we have three hon. Cabinet Ministers, Deputy Ministers and hon. Members of Parliament listening to what the Members on your left are saying. Is he in order to say that when the nation is listening?
I need your serious ruling, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: I already made a ruling on that point of order because somebody raised more or less the same point of order earlier.
May you, please, continue, Hon. Muntanga.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I was making a point on the question of governance. Out of naivety, a leader of a political party did not realise that accusing others of tribalism could actually boomerang in his face. Thanks to his naivety because, through it, he has realised that you do not call others names which are applicable to you.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: When we complained about being accused of being a tribalist party, no one responded. I am now hearing people say that the issue of tribalism should not be talked about because it can set this country into flames. That is very positive. This means that no single party should be labelled a tribalist because this can set the country into flames and this is true.
Mr Speaker, I accompanied my president to the Northern Province. I was the first one to say that there was nothing tribal about that visit because the people we intended to call on had accepted our invitation. However, it was a political move on the part of the people who were scared of another political leader calling on a traditional leader that deterred this visit. The fear and worry was shown by the people who blocked us and made sure we did not meet the traditional leaders. Although there were statements that were bordering on tribalism, I did not worry about them because I once worked in the Northern Province.
Sir, I did not want to go through and re-read the President’s Speech, but I am particularly interested in talking about the issue of agriculture. Although the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock is not here, his hon. Deputy Minister is here. What I realised is that people who prepare speeches for His Excellency the President have no idea fn some issues and they merely write theories. They do not seem to understand the things that they write for the Head of State to read.
Hon. UPND Members: You are right.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we all know that urea fertiliser is still in Saudi Arabia and has not been loaded on the ship. Once it has been loaded, it will only arrive in the country sometime in December. By the time it is transported and distributed, the people will only receive it sometime in January or February, which will be too late. What are we doing? We have people writing about theories.
Mr Nkombo: Nkusobana uko.
Mr Muntanga: The Government is not serious. There is no urea. Even when you talk about D-compound fertiliser and check the figures, you will realise that a lot of districts have not been given their portion. Why do we do things like that? His Excellency the President, in his speech, mentioned that in order to enhance agriculture development, there will be a need to upscale the electronic voucher system.
Mr Speaker, the electronic voucher system has not been implemented yet. It is simply a pilot programme which has not even been implemented. Nonetheless, you write a speech for His Excellency the President, stating that he will be up scaling something which is not in effect. What sort of speech-writing is that? You are making His Excellency the President talk about things that do not exist. It shows that in the PF, there is a vacuum in agriculture and people do not understand the running of the sector.
Mr Nkombo: There is a leadership vacuum.
Mr Muntanga: His Excellency the President said that, for next year, this Government would bring 17,000 hectares of land under irrigation. The writers of this speech are aware that with all the centre pivots in this country, only 4,500 hectares of land have been under irrigation. We do not have a programme of dam construction to enable water reservation. Therefore, how do the writers of the speech tell His Excellency the President that by 2016, irrigation of 17,000 hectares of land will be achieved?
Mr Nkombo: Bufi!
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, how can they do that?
It shows us that we have ignorant people writing speeches for His Excellency the President. They do not know what they are talking about. How, then, can you be surprised when people stand up and say ‘bufi’? You are making His Excellency the President pronounce things that are not correct.
Mr Speaker, one of the phrases I came across more than once in the speech is “clustering” …
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, agriculture is not something you can theorise continuously. It is a sector which requires coming down to the practical possibilities. When things are put down for the Head of State to read, they should make sense.
Mr Nkombo: They want to plant fertiliser first.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we have been told that 17,000 hectares of land will come under irrigation, and yet nothing practical has been put up in effect.
Sir, His Excellency the President was forced to stop reading his speech when the hon. Member for Dundumwezi challenged him by stating that farmers had not been paid. His Excellency the President demanded for the list of names so that the farmers could be paid the next day. He made a Government assurance. At that point, I looked around for the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock and the hon. Minister of Finance. Hon. Ministers, you are not helping your President.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: How do you not tell His Excellency the President that out of K500 million, only K111 million has been paid out? Sir, K418 million is outstanding. These are figures that have been produced by the FRA.
Mr Speaker, last year, the budget for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock was K300 billion, which is equivalent to K300 million in the new currency. This means that from last year’s budget, we only paid out K111 million. However, His Excellency the President was made to ask for a list of farmers who had not been paid so that they could be paid the next day. Is this possible? You are making His Excellency the President not to tell the truth. I have the list here and I know that hon. Ministers have it in their possession.
Laughter
Mr Muntanga: Do not take this as a laughing matter. The farmers have not been paid.
Interruptions
Mr Muntanga: Hon. M. H. Malama, I will give the list if you want it.
There is K418 million that has not been paid out to the farmers. Even if you gave this money to the Head of State today, he would not be able to pay the farmers. This is why I am saying that you are not helping him.
Mr Speaker, there are several figures that have been released in the agricultural sector indicating what has been distributed. We are being assured that things are being done. However, I want to challenge the people on your right to look at the figures and help the Head of state.
Mr Speaker, we have been told that there will be livestock re-stocking. Re-stocking means that livestock was there before. You cannot re-stock where there has never been cattle. You can only introduce cattle. How do you re-stock where there was initially nothing?
Laughter
Mt Muntanga: Meanwhile, you are telling His Excellency the President that this is the best thing you are doing.
We know that in certain areas like Shang’ombo, in the Western Province, there is no need to dip animals because there are less tick-boRne diseases. However, you let His Excellency the President tell us that the whole country will have dip tanks. This is why I am saying that the hon. Ministers should be present when we are debating issues so that they know how to address what His Excellency the President has pronounced in his speech. It is up to them. We can only advise.
You know how I tell it. If you do not want to listen, it is up to you. You will remain with the illusion that people are with you. By the time you realise that they are not with you, it will be too late.
Mr Mulusa: On a point of order, Sir.
The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I wish to apologise to my brother for disrupting his debate.
Mr Speaker, out of a population of 14 million in Zambia, 150 people are chosen as beacons of hope and as representatives of discipline.
Mr Speaker, the issue of hon. Cabinet Ministers missing in Parliament has been raised on several occasions and you have ruled that it is out of order. We have not received any explanation and neither has this conduct changed.
Mr Speaker is the Chief Whip in order to sit there and not offer an explanation. We would like know that, in future, hon. Ministers will give value to the Zambian people, for the two vehicles we buy for them, for the salaries we pay them, for the houses, for the first class tickets they fly throughout the world.
Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling on the Chief Whip’s constant ignoring of your rulings by NOT giving an explanation.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
This issue has been flogged. It is one that has been raised more than five times this afternoon.
My ruling has been that to have thin representation at Cabinet level is inappropriate. As such, we hope that, come tomorrow, we will have full representation at Cabinet level.
The ruling that I have made may seem very simple, but if a ruling describes a situation obtaining as inappropriate, I think that is sufficient. The word ‘inappropriate’, for those that are familiar with the Queen’s language, is loaded with a lot of meaning. I do not think it is important for us to flog this issue anymore than we have because we have other channels of how we communicate with the Executive arm of the Government when we see that representation in Parliament is not appropriate. You have registered your point and my ruling is equally appropriate. I have ruled that the near absence of the Cabinet is not appropriate because we are sent here to represent the people of Zambia and we are paid out of the taxpayers’ money. Therefore, we expect representation from the Government when serious debates are taking place here in this Chamber.
I am, therefore, emphasising that as we debate, there must be full representation of the Government because it is under obligation to respond to what the Back Bench is raising. Now, if representation is …
Mr M. H. Malama: Emo tuli!
The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member of Parliament for Mfuwe, it is inappropriate for an hon. Minister to talk when the Chair is talking.
This House has got rules of the game to follow. I know we try to strike a balance between freedom to speak and consult. However, when you consult so loudly to the extent that the Chairperson feels uncomfortable, then, you are out of order. Do not tempt me to exercise the powers which you have vested in me. I think enough is enough.
Having ruled that, I wish to say that we, as Presiding Officers, also have ways of communicating with the Executive each time we see less representation in the House. I think you have made your point and my ruling is that let the matter rest.
May you continue, hon. Member of Parliament Kalomo Central.
Hon. Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, in his Speech, His Excellency the President is hoping that we could achieve 6 per cent budgetary growth in agriculture as the Maputo Declaration requires. If we do not achieve 10 per cent allocation of the Budget for agriculture, then, that will not be achieved.
Sir, the President’s Speech opened on a note of explaining what would be achieved. I want to urge the various hon. Ministers and ministries to support the President’s Speech. If they do not, it will be totally meaningless.
For example, we have been told that there was an improvement in agriculture production with 19 per cent contribution to the GDP. Mr Speaker, you will note that this is what the MMD left on agriculture production. The drop in production started in 2011/12. The 2012/13 Farming Season became worse. If we will not come up with proper and tangible plans, the 2013/14 Farming Season will be disastrous …
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!
May you, please, ascertain if we have a quorum.
There was no quorum.
The Deputy Chairperson As evidently seen that we do not have a quorum to proceed in the Business of the House, I, therefore, invite the Acting Leader of Government in the House to adjourn.
ADJOURNMENT
The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications, Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.
Question put and agreed to.
____________
The House adjourned at 1915 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 2nd October, 2013.