Debates- Wednesday, 2nd October, 2013

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DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday 2nd October, 2013

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

____________

ANNOUCEMENT BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Deputy Speaker:  Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect that, in the absence of His Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other national duties, Hon. Yamfwa Mukanga, MP., Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and Chief Whip, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House today, Wednesday 2nd October, 2013.

I thank you.

____________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF DAMS IN RUFUNSA

66. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to construct dams in Rufunsa District;

(b)    if so, when the construction would commence; and

(c)    what the estimated cost of constructing a dam was.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Mwewa): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to construct dams in all the districts across the country, including Rufunsa. The Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock does construct small multi-purpose dams in selected areas with crop, fisheries and livestock activities. The irrigation projects are provided on a demand-driven basis to farmers with clear objectives of what they intend to use the dams for. 

Sir, the construction of dams in Rufunsa District will commence once the need for the infrastructure has been identified by the communities. Farmers in Rufunsa District are, therefore, encouraged to approach their nearest Agriculture Camp Extension Officers and the District Agricultural Co-ordinator’s (DACO’s) office for technical and extension advice on whether they need this kind of assistance.

Sir, the cost of constructing dams varies greatly from one site to another, depending on many factors that include the nature of the river, site conditions, type of dam required and the distance of the place from where machines and materials are being mobilised. Before a dam is constructed, a survey needs to be conducted to determine the design and, thereafter, a bill of quantities is drawn. On average, the cost of constructing a small multi-purpose dam is K3 million to K5 million.

I thank you, Sir.

BENEFICIARIES OF THE YOUTH EMPOERMENT FUND IN KAPUTA

67. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Youth and Sport:

(a)    how many youth clubs in Kaputa District benefited from the Youth Empowerment Fund from January, 2011, to June, 2013, year by year; and

(b)    what measures had been taken to increase the number of beneficiaries.

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Masumba): The number of youth clubs and businesses that have benefited from the Youth Empowerment Fund (YEF) were as follows:

Year    Beneficiaries    Assistance

2011    Various sports clubs    five sets of football and netball jerseys and
    20 assorted balls

    One youth club    K20,000 loan
    
    2012    Nil    Nil

    2013    Geokanorm General    K25,000
    Dealers (Boutique)

    Kenratios General    K25,000
    Dealers (General 
    Trading)
        
Sir, in order to increase the number of beneficiaries of the fund in Kaputa and other rural areas, the ministry has instituted the following measures:

(a)    printing and distribution of YEF publicity materials in both English and Local languages. The ministry has produced and distributed these materials throughout the country using the offices of District Commissioners (DCs), hon. Members of Parliament and Area Development Committees (ADCs);

(b)    intensified publicity of YEF, using the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Radio and Television in English and local languages; and

(c)    decentralisation of the administration of YEF. The provincial and district offices have been requested to widely publicise the fund and develop publicity and monitoring plans, which will, in turn, be monitored by the ministry Headquarters. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, other than the publicity campaign that has been intensified, does the hon. Minister not think that the application forms are too difficult for our children in rural areas to understand?

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should have specified a condition that seems to be difficult. I do not think that the form is all that difficult because there is a lot of publicity being done at the district, provincial and national levels, through radio and television. We are explaining and simplifying the requirements in local languages and this ensures that those who may not understand English still get the information in their local languages.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Hon. Minister, as a tool – he is not listening, Sir, – of self-employment and, therefore, empowerment of our youths, do you think that YEF is having an impact and reducing unemployment among the youths?

Mr Masumba: Sir, I think that the impact is being seen. However, the programme also requires a concerted effort. When you look at the money that was given in last year’s Budget, which is being executed this year, the approved amount was K19.1 million, which is inadequate to meet the huge demand out there. Therefore, it is incumbent upon all Parliamentarians to improve the budget from K19.1 million to a reasonable amount so that the impact will be extended further than we are able to do currently.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, when shall we see the establishment of the Youth Department in districts where the presence of the Ministry of Youth and Sport is absent so that the decentralisation addresses many of the issues concerning youth empowerment?

Mr Kabimba, SC., entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aleisa, aleisa!

Mr Masumba: Sir, I hope that those people have stopped …

Mr Deputy Speaker:  Just answer, hon. Minister.

Mr Masumba: Sir, the question raised by the hon. Member on the other side – the name has slipped my mind –

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Lupososhi.

Mr Masumba: Yes, the hon. Member for Lupososhi. 

Sir, his question requires to be brought in as a new question so that we can exhaust matters. However, to give him a bonus answer, the ministry is, actually, in the process of decentralising its operations. We do not believe in making empty pronouncements. However, there is a procedure to follow in decentralising. As I speak, the programme is just awaiting Treasury authority. Once authority has been given, we will be seen getting down to the ground.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Sir, of the K19.1 million, how much has been disbursed to youth groups countrywide?

Mr Masumba: Sir, I may not manage to give detailed figures. That is why I will insist that it is very important for hon. Members to bring specific questions so that it is easy to give answers. All I can say is that we have managed to pay the Northern, Lusaka, North-Western and Copperbelt provinces. For the other provinces, we are still waiting for resources to execute the programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kazonga (Vubwi): Sir, according to the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister, in 2012, there was no youth club that benefited from YEF. Why was that so? Is it because of there having been no applications received or, as the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaputa said, the complicated nature of the form?

Mr Masumba: Sir, there was no application received from Kaputa in 2012. Let me take this opportunity to inform hon. Members, especially Hon. Ng’onga, that it is important for them to play an active role in such kind of activities. I will cite the example of Hon. Mutati, who recently sent his Professional Assistant (PA) to ensure that his people are covered. How I wish every hon. Member could take the same stance. I can assure you that it becomes very easy. However, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah, iwe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: … the only challenge …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, we do not want to cause controversies. If you have finished the answer, take your seat.

Mr Masumba: Should I continue, Sir? Okay, I am done.

Thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Sir, is the hon. Minister not considering giving hon. Members a list indicating how much has been released, constituency by constituency, and the clubs that benefited so that it can assist relieve the pressure that we have in the constituencies?

Mr Masumba: It is very possible for that to be done.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! 

Mr Masumba: Very possible, yes. That is the answer to the question that you are asking. We can do it.

Hon. Opposition Members: When?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!  

The question was very clear. It was about whether a list could be provided and the hon. Minister is saying that it can. Now you are asking when. Those are too many questions in one breath.

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, that is quite possible, but let me put it on record that our Government is busy trying to rectify certain anomalies that it found when it took over. In the past, a lion’s share of YEF was given to the provincial headquarters. This time, all the districts should benefit from the fund. We are trying to make a difference in the way this money is managed.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Sir, would it be possible to decentralise the distribution of YEF, like the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), because hon. Members of Parliament and the communities know the projects in their constituencies better?

Mr Masumba: Sir, I think that this question was answered at some point. The answer given was that we are …

Interruptions 

Mr Masumba: I need your protection, Sir, because …

Mr Deputy Speaker: You are protected, hon. Minister. If you think you have adequately answered the question, just say so. If, on the other hand, you want to give another answer, do so. Let us avoid going into controversies.

Mr Masumba: Sir, I explained that we are waiting for Treasury authority to implement that programme. Once we have a presence in the districts, it will be very easy for us to follow what the hon. Member is suggesting. I want to assure my hon. Colleagues that, this time around, the programme is not politicised like it has been perceived to be in the past.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Time is now.

Mr Masumba: That is why, for the sake of clearing the record, this Government does not look at who belongs to the Patriotic Front (PF) and who does not. This can be seen from the fact that, currently, the district that got the lion’s share is Solwezi in the North-Western Province. However, you will notice that the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central does not belong to the PF, but to the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Masumba: Even when you go to Mwinilunga, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister.

Mr Masumba: Even when you go to Mwinilunga, Sir, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: I have called for order, hon. Minister. 

I think that the Executive should be concise in answering questions. There is no point in trying to give answers that will, obviously, give rise to controversies. We are not here to be controversial. Hon. Minister, learn to answer the questions as asked.

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, is there a body that is monitoring the projects being undertaken by the clubs in the constituencies or districts?

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, yes, the body is there.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, is the ministry satisfied with the way the programme is running, considering that most of the youths in the constituencies have not benefited?  
 
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, no, we are not satisfied.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, there is a rural-urban drift whereby people are moving from villages to towns. Most of them are youths and they are coming to Lusaka. Does the Government have any deliberate policy of sending more money to the youths in the villages, instead of concentrating on giving money to those in towns? Does it intend to share this money equally?

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, that is why we are decentralising.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Sir, the hon. Deputy Minister, in his response to the question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili, has conceded that he is not satisfied with the manner in which this fund is administered. Arising from that dissatisfaction, could he share with the House what the ministry is doing to ensure that the programme is administered to his satisfaction.

Mr Masumba: Sir, the only remedy is to increase the resources allocated to the programme.
 
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that a good number of provinces have received these funds. However, we have not heard when the Western and Southern provinces will also be catered for.

Mr Masumba: Sir, it will be done when funds are available.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

LINK ZAMBIA 8,000 ROAD WORKS

68. Mr Ng’onga asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the works on the following roads under the Link Zambia 8,000 Project would commerce:

(i)    Mporokoso/Kaputa;

(ii)    Luwingu/Kaputa; and

(iii)    Nchelenge/Chienge/Kaputa;

(b)    what the duration of each project above would be; and

(c)    whether the works on the Mporokoso/Kaputa Road would include the replacement of the bridges on Munkonge and Katwatwa streams.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr M. H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), is currently undertaking a techno-economic study, detailed engineering design and tender preparation for the upgrading of 220km of the Mporokoso/Kaputa Road via Mutundu Gate in the Northern Province. The contract, which has a completion period of twelve months, was signed on 10th August, 2013. The upgrading of the road to a bituminous standard will only commence after the finalisation of the feasibility study in 2014. 

Sir, the project combines many roads from Luwingu to Kaputa. However, from the Luwingu Road, at Lunte Turn-off, through Mukupa Kaoma to Zacharia Chanda and joining the Kasama/Mporokoso Road, the RDA will undertake a techno-economic study, detailed engineering design and tender preparation for upgrading while the works for upgrading of Kasama/Mporokoso Road are on-going. To complete the Luwingu/Kaputa Circuit, we also hope to consider the Mutundu Gate/Nsumbu Road because it is considered economically viable.

Mr Speaker, bids for the tender for the upgrading of the Nchelenge/Chienge/Kaputa Road to a bituminous standard are still under evaluation.

Sir, the completion period of the upgrading of Mporokoso/Kaputa Road via Mutundu Gate and 259km of the Luwingu/Kaputa Road in the Northern Province will only be ascertained after the finalisation of the designs and tender documents. On the other hand, the estimated completion period for the upgrading of the Nchelenge/Chienge/Kaputa Road to a bituminous standard is twenty-four months.

Mr Speaker, the assessment to be undertaken by the design consultant for the upgrading of the Mporokoso/Kaputa Road will determine whether the bridges at Mukonge and Katwatwa streams need to be replaced. Therefore, a decision will be arrived at after the finalisation of the design report in August, 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, will the road between Kaputa via Nkosha to Mununga, which is economically important for Kaputa, be included in the project design?

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, it will not be included in this project. However, I assure the hon. Member that it will be implemented under Phase III.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the Link Zambia 8,000 Project keeps coming up every now and then. Would it not be prudent for the hon. Minister to give a comprehensive statement to this House, giving exact statistics, durations and amounts of money, area by area, so that we are assured and stop asking about it repeatedly?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and Chief Whip (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, at the beginning, before we even started implementing the project, we had a presentation by the RDA, and details of the roads to be worked on were given. Further, we have been providing monthly updates even through the newspapers. If that is not enough, then, the hon. Member can contact us so that we give all the information to him and other hon. Members of Parliament. We are more than willing to do that.

I thank you, Sir.

Rev. Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that a contract has been signed on the Mporokoso/Kaputa Road, yet he also said that the road can only be upgraded to a bituminous standard in August, 2014. Can he, please, clarify that because I have travelled on that road and it is a pain to go to Kaputa. It takes eleven hours from Mporokoso to Kaputa.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, that is not what was stated. The hon. Deputy Minister said …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

There is too much loud consultation. The hon. Minister is on the Floor. 

You may continue, hon. Minister. 

Mr Mukanga: Sir, the hon. Deputy Minister said that we are working on the detailed designs. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, Link Zambia 2,000 is a good project ... 

Hon. Government Members: Link Zambia 2,000?

Mr Mbewe: I beg your pardon. Link Zambia 8,000 is a good project. However, in some instances, contracts can be signed under this project …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Chadiza, please, get used to asking questions without first making statements.

Can you ask your question.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, when a contract is signed and the contractor moves on site, he might spend more than six months without doing any work. When that happens, is it not expensive for the Government? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, all contractors who move on site would have already been paid. If a contractor is on site without doing any work, hon. Members should come to us and report. The hon. Member for Chadiza, especially, should have done so. However, even before he did it, we realised that the contractor was not doing any work and have acted. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, the road in question is one of those that His Excellency the President said would be tarred in 2011, two years ago. Why is the Government dragging its feet? Why should it take more than two years to conduct a techno-economic feasibility study? Instead of simply tarring the road, the Government is now shifting the goalpost and talking about carrying out the feasibility study next year. After the feasibility study, it will talk about tendering for designs. When will the Kaputa Road be tarred?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should realise that this is a PF Government plan. When the President made that pronouncement, we started implementing the project, but it is being done in phases. Phase I is already being implemented, Phase II is what we are talking about now and Phase III has already been explained. We are, therefore, not just sitting down, but executing all of the President’s pronouncements to the letter. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the Nchelenge/Chienge Road is in Phase I of the Link Zambia 8,000 Project. When will the Government select a contractor? I ask this question because a contractor is already on site for the Mansa/Luwingu Road, which is in the same phase. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Ema Back Benchers aba.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the Nchelenge/Chienge/Kaputa Road is undergoing evaluation. We are on course. I think that no one should champion the progress that we are already making. We planned it and we will execute it according to the plan. I am an interested party in the Nchelenge/Chienge/Kaputa Road because I come from there. 

I thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, will there be a hold-and-maintenance kind of work on the Mporokoso/Kaputa Road?

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Works, Supply and Communication, blah, blah, blah, the nomenclature is long (inaudible) …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, can you speak a little louder. 

Mr Nkombo: The hon. Minister of ... The nomenclature of the ministry is so long that, sometimes, I forget it. Hon. Mukanga, has been an hon. Member of this House for a very long time and has performed the oversight function …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Nkombo, please, can you ask your question.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, mine is a point of order. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Yes, raise your point of order. Do not make a statement. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Why are you saying, ‘Aah!’? That is the rule. 

Laughter 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Nkombo, you will not change the rules of the game. I am merely implementing the rules that you, yourselves, have made. Therefore, do not say, ‘Aah!’ when I am executing my responsibility. 

You have your point of order.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, in raising my point of order, I wish to remind the House and the nation that we are here to provide an oversight role on the Executive. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

That is precisely what I am saying. You asked for a point of order and I gave you the opportunity to raise it, but you are making a statement.

 Can you raise your point of order. 

Mr Nkombo: Sir,, is it in order for you, sitting in that Chair, to entertain the answer given by Hon. Mukanga that people are championing their causes when we are there to perform an oversight role on the Executive?  

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

That point of order will not be allowed because you seem to be challenging the Chair. 

The hon. Member for Lupososhi may proceed. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, the Mporokoso/Kaputa Road is in a deplorable state. Will there be a hold-and-maintenance work on it, just like the other roads undergoing feasibility studies and detailed design? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, that will be done through the Rural Roads Unit (RRU).

I thank you, Sir. 

CONSTRUCTION OF MENJE SECONDARY SCHOOL

69. Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda) (on behalf of Mr Simbao (Senga Hill)) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    why the construction of Menje Secondary School in Senga Hill Parliamentary Constituency had stalled;

(b)    when construction works would be resumed and completed; and

(c)    when the school was expected to be opened. 

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the construction works at Menje Secondary School in Senga Hill Parliamentary Constituency …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Members on my right, let the hon. Minister be heard. 

You may proceed, hon. Minister. 

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your protection. 

Sir, construction works at Menje Secondary School in Senga Hill Parliamentary Constituency have not stalled. It is only that progress has been slow due to limited funds. 

Mr Speaker, the contractor is on site and works are progressing accordingly. The contract will end in December, 2013. However, it is expected that the contract period will be extended for the works to be completed. 

Finally, Sir, the school is expected to open in 2015 because all works are expected to be completed by mid-2014. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication in order to say that he has a personal interest in the Nchelenge/Chienge/Kaputa Road because he hails from there? Is it in order for an hon. Minister, who is supposed to answer in the interest of the Government, to respond like that? 

Mr Deputy Speaker: That point of order has been made long after the matter was dealt with.

Continue, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Walk out.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that the evidence seen by the hon. Member of Parliament for Senga Hill on the ground indicates that construction work has actually stalled, but the hon. Minister is saying that it has not. Can he tell us the truth, since the hon. Member is saying that work has stopped.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, in my answer to the first question, I said that the only problem is that the progress of the works has been slow due to limited funds, and that is a fact.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that Mbala District, in which Menje Secondary School is located, has not had a new secondary school since 1968?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, we are aware. That is why the hon. Minister said, earlier in the week, that, in 2014, especially, we will concentrate on completing the many secondary schools under construction across this country. We recognise the fact that, in many places where these secondary schools are being constructed, none are in existence. So, our commitment to the Zambian people is that we will complete all the outstanding projects in 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the period of construction will be extended due to limited resources. Does that mean that the Government will pay more funds to the contractor on site, whose job is to complete the works within a specific period?

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, the school we are discussing is among the eighty-three schools we inherited from the previous Government, some of which have been under construction for the last five years. The reason is simple. Whether it was for political expediency or out of a genuine desire to help our people, we over-estimated the cost of the projects. The amounts are colossal. To construct a secondary school in two-and-half years, as stipulated, we needed to pump in K12 million, then K12 billion, each year. Instead, we have been giving contractors piece-meal funding, for example, K1 or K2 million each year.

Mr Kunda: Why?

Dr Phiri: It is because the projects did not have sufficient funding in the Budget. That is the major reason.

Sir, in 2014, as the hon. Deputy Minister and I have indicated, we would like to finish these projects because of same reason that the hon. Member has mentioned, which is that we are accumulating unnecessarily large amounts in expenses. There are heaps and heaps of certificates that we must honour.

Sir, at times, I laugh when people insinuate that this Government is now just commissioning projects because they do not know how many sleepless nights we spend to meet the obligations they tied us to, particularly concerning infrastructure projects.

Hon. Opposition Members: Sure?

Interruptions

Dr Phiri: It is not true that we are just commissioning because we are busy looking for funds to meet the contractual obligations that we inherited.

Hon. Government Member: Yes!

Dr Phiri: The good news is that, in the 2014 Budget, which we will soon be passing, there is additional funding for infrastructure development and, we hope, …

Mr Muntanga: Where is it?

Dr Phiri: I said that, in the 2014 Budget, which will soon be presented, there are proposals …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, please, ignore the people who are interjecting.

Dr Phiri: … the proposals that …

Prof. Luo: Ignore Hon. Muntanga.

Laughter

Dr Phiri: We hope that, with this extra funding, if it will be approved, we will meet our obligations. Apart from the mentioned schools, there are others at varying stages of construction.

Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to say that this Government is committed …

Mr Livune: Question!

Dr Phiri: … to completing all the school projects on its cards.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: We will commission them after working very hard on this huge responsibility that you left us to complete.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister’s Government plan to put on hold the construction of new schools until all existing projects are completed?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, in 2014, we will concentrate on finishing current projects but, alongside that, with the little money that will remain, we will upgrade selected strategically-located basic schools. They are much cheaper and we will create more space, rather than depending on constructing new schools.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, last year, when the hon. Minister of Finance was presenting the 2013 Budget, he announced a very substantial allocation to the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, which we thought was going to solve all these problems. My question is: Hon. Minister, have you received all the money that was approved in the Budget? If not, what is the real cause of the delay? Is it because of over-commitment in the past or that you did not receive the money that was approved in the Budget?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I am glad that the former hon. Minister of Finance has summarised it very well. The over-commitment to infrastructure development, though welcome, has created some difficulties. 

Sir, last year, we got K5.6 trillion, and it was good to talk about trillions. Unfortunately, most of it went to personal emoluments because we have a huge human resource in the ministry. Only K639 billion was reserved for building infrastructure, which was, by far, inadequate to meet the funding challenges of these huge projects. This year, again, we want to focus on these projects and try to meet the demand.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to ignore a very straightforward question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa, who wanted to know whether all the money that was allocated to his ministry had been released?

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, as you answer the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya, take that point of order into account.

You may continue, hon. Member of Parliament for Mapatizya.

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, what does the hon. Minister mean when he says that his Government inherited eighty-three secondary schools? Of the eighty-three, how many has the PF Government managed to complete in the two years that it has been in office?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, this is why it was important for us to study the President’s Speech. The figures the hon. Member is asking for were mentioned in that Speech. The President indicated that thirty-two out of the eighty-three schools had been completed and that we had the task of finishing the remaining ones. He even directed my ministry to do so. 

Sir, on the point of order that was raised, I said that the hon. Member of Parliament for Liuwa had made a very good summary of what is obtaining on the ground. Just to repeat, this is October, and the funding is coming through. However, even if all the money allocated for infrastructure was released, it would still be far short of what we need to complete all the projects.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, for avoidance of doubt, and because this will be in the Hansard and outlive all of us, in one of his responses, the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education said that Menje School was inherited …

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, is this Executive in order to remain unbearably mute on the whereabouts of the Head of State, who left this country to go and attend the United Nations (UN) General Assembly, which ended last week and the hon. Ministers who accompanied him are back? Is the Executive in order not to inform the nation on the whereabouts of the Head of State, who is currently using taxpayers’ money?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let me, once again, give some guidance. We have repeatedly said, and by ‘we’, I mean the Chair, that we should not debate through points of order. Let us come to grips with the reality of our rules. Let points of order be what they are. I am, therefore, unable to make a ruling on that point of order.

Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, you may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was telling the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education that, in his response to the question regarding Menje Secondary School, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

He cannot be heard. Can we, please, listen.

Mr Nkombo: … he indicated that one of the problems that his ministry faced was that the school was inherited from the previous Government and that the project had been over-estimated. The key phrase is ‘over-estimated’. The hon. Minister also said that, even after over-estimating the budget for the school, his Government still had sleepless nights.

Dr Phiri indicated dissent.

Mr Nkombo: That is what you said, hon. Minister. You can check the Hansard. Do not shake your head. Why is there this contradiction whereby you over-estimated the financial requirements, yet you are having sleepless nights because you cannot conclude a project? Was it just a case of mother-tongue interference? Could he have meant under-estimated?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, if it was not clear, what I said is that the previous Government had projected to build eighty-three secondary schools, but the Budget did not support the number of projects that were being executed. As a result, little money went to the contractors, thereby delaying the completion of the projects, from 2008 to date. What I further said is that, with additional funding, we will complete the remaining projects. So far, we have built thirty-two. Menje Secondary School also suffered because of the reasons I have given, not that we under-estimated or over-estimated the allocations for the project. In short, the eighty-three schools earmarked for construction were not matched by the Budgetary allocation presented to and approved by this House. That is what the situation is.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, following the hon. Minister’s lamentation that K5.6 trillion was not enough and, with the bit of experience that he has gained in that office, and taking into account that the Budget presentation is around the corner, how much does he think is reasonable for him to complete these projects? As he answers this question, he should, please, try to stand up. We do not answer while seated.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, hon. Minister, ignore the last part of his question.

Laughter

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I rarely listen to Hon. Mbulamano.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Dr Phiri resumed his seat.

Mr Deputy Speaker: You see, this is, precisely, what we, in the Chair, try to avoid when we advise. I have no doubt that the hon. Minister was trying to hit back at the hon. Member for Chembe. So, let us avoid these things.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, Hon. Mbulakulima said that we have gained little experience. It is not little. From the major mistakes that were presented to us, this has been an experience I will remember throughout my life. In fact, the baptism you gave us, through the many challenges that you left, has made me say that these were welcome challenges because they have been opportunities for us to show what we can do for mother Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: Sir, this far, I have not spoken ill of any previous hon. Minister because I know that they did their best. I can only hope that we will also be judged kindly. This year, we were given K5.6 trillion, but only K1.6 trillion was for non-personal emoluments and the bulk of it went to infrastructure development. However, as I said, it was not enough. Whether I lamented or not does not matter. I do not really read the Book of Lamentations in the Bible and it is not my nature to lament. I only hope that the figures that the hon. Minister of Finance will present before this House will be pleasing to the hon. Member of Parliament, and that he will support the allocations which, unfortunately, I cannot start discussing now. I can, however, say that you will notice a little more money coming our way. In my policy statement, I will express our gratitude for this gesture from the Ministry of Finance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that only thirty-two new secondary schools, out of the initial eighty-three, have been constructed. Does that mean that the PF Government, in its two years in office, has only added one new school because the President’s Speech states that eighty-four schools would be constructed?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I urge the hon. Member of Parliament to get things clearly and straight. We inherited eighty-three on-going projects, but their pace towards completion was delayed because the Budgetary allocations did not match the number. So, from eighty-three, we have completed thirty-two, which means that we have fifty-one more schools to complete. The projects have not stalled, but are at various levels of completion. We will not start new projects, but complete what our friends left. We also have other projects to consider apart from just completing the ones we are discussing. 

Sir, since we are talking about the Northern Province, let me say that, apart from Menje Secondary School, there are seven other projects we are completing, four of which just need final touches on external works. We are still building the other three as well as Menje Secondary School. 

Thank you, Sir.

BEMBA CHIEFS’ RECOGNITION

70. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs how many Bemba chiefs were recognised by the Government, as of August, 2013.

The Deputy Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mrs Kawandami): Mr Speaker, as of August, 2013, only two Bemba chiefs were recognised, and there are no plans to recognise more chiefs in Zambia. We deliberated on this question last week and gave the same answers to the House. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, why were those two Bemba chiefs, Chimbuka and Chewe, of Chinsali District, recognised by the Government? As far as the Bemba Royal Establishment (BRE) is concerned, there were no minutes or recommendation to the Government …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, what is your follow-up question? 

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, why did the Government recognise those two chiefs without any input from the BRE?

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament who is asking this question is not one of the seventy-two Bashilubemba in the Northern Province. I am surprised that he is now giving information about an institution that he does not belong to.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, there are five sub-chiefs in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency who are looking forward …

Mr Mufalali: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs in order to refuse to answer the question by Hon. Mucheleka on the grounds that the minutes that were supposed to be brought to her ministry were not brought? Is she in order to sway away and answer by saying something else?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Some of these questions, good as they are, have the impact of putting the Chair in a very difficult situation in the sense that I am not really conversant with what the hon. Member for Lubansenshi asked about and the answer given by the hon. Minister. I do not have any knowledge of the stipulations of the Bemba tradition. So, when you raise such points of order, it puts me in a predicament. I take it that the answer given was the one that she had.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I was saying that …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: It is a procedural point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Procedural or not, let me first guide. I said …

Mr Mwiimbu remained standing.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can you, please, take your seat.

I said that Hon. Mwanza was on the Floor but, before he even started speaking, you rose on a point of order. We are here to guide so that we all get used to doing the right thing. The rules are that you cannot raise a point of order when no one is speaking. I would have asked you on whom the point of order was because the person I had asked to speak had not yet started speaking. So, that is procedurally incorrect and I will not grant you that point of order. We have to follow procedure.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is the proper way of doing it.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this procedural point of order. As hon. Members of Parliament, we speak on behalf of the constituencies we represent. Is it procedurally correct to state that you can only speak in this House and raise issues if you, as an hon. Member of Parliament, has a direct interest in the matter that is under discussion?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Well, my immediate response, I have to be frank, is that it is not procedurally correct.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. UPND Member: Long live the Chair!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Not now only, but always.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Maybe, the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, at some point, might want to …

Hon. Opposition Members: Now.

Mr Deputy Speaker: … address that issue. 

Hon. Member for Solwezi West, may you continue.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, were the two chiefs being mentioned chiefs in 1964? If they were not, …

Mr Masumba: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Masumba: Mr Speaker, is Hon. Mwiimbu in order to use his arm string like a neck tie? If he has been healed from the problem his hand had, why can he not throw the arm string away? Is he in order to use it as a neck tie?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: This is, obviously, the kind of points of order that is really frivolous and not worth addressing.

Hon. Member for Solwezi West, may you continue.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, were the two chiefs who were recognised in the Bemba Kingdom in existence at Independence? If not, what criterion was used by the Government to recognise them when there is a freeze on recognising new chiefs?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, last week, the same question was asked differently. These chiefs have been around. For your information, if you look at the history of the BRE, Chief Chimbuka is the uncle to all the Bemba Chiefs. In the system of Bemba tradition, when you start as Chief Chewe, you, then, get transferred to become Chief Chikwanda, then, you become Chief Nkula and Chief Nkula waits to become Chitimukulu. The other arm is where you start as Chief Mpepo, who gets promoted to become Chief Nkolemfumu, who gets transferred to become Chief Mwamba who waits to become Chitimukulu. So, there are two chiefs who can become Chitimukulu. Furthermore, when Chief Chitimukulu is being buried, Chief Chimbuka is the one who blesses the river according to Bemba beliefs so that nothing goes wrong before they cross to get to Mwalule to bury Chitimukulu. So, they are not new.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, this Government is the fourth since Independence. Why did it find it necessary to recognise these chiefs now when the previous three Governments did not?

Mr Lubinda: The previous three Governments were gong’as.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, let me also say something since you want to draw me into controversy.

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: That is what you are trying to do. During the tenure of office of the late Dr Chiluba, going into that of the late Dr Mwanawasa, SC., because of selfishness …

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: … and political interference, …

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: Let me explain. You asked a question. So, you need an answer. 

Sir, as a result of selfishness and political interference, there was a fight between a chief who was overseeing Nkula’s Chiefdom, because the substantive Nkula had died, and Chief Chewe. I do not think that we want to allow that when we know the correct thing to do. The people of the Royal Establishment of Chinsali sat down and there are minutes to that effect. Really, there is no reason for us to discuss something that is straightforward. The minutes are there, and that is the procedure that we are supposed to follow. We do not want another war in Chinsali like it happened, the result of which was that one person was injured and has permanent fractures while one of the chiefs ended up in Kamfinsa Prison. I think that the onus is on us, as a Government, to correct things. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, there are many sub-chiefs who are waiting to be recognised in this Republic. Will the Government recognise chiefs from other parts of this country?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, again, I want to refer to the answer I gave last week. I said that, in fact, although there were all these questions around particular chiefs last week and this week, there are certain sub-chiefs and indunas who, according to the papers in the archives and in the office, are, actually, being paid as chiefs. What, for example, President Dr Chiluba did, for the sake of peace between Kaputa and Mputa, was to upgrade one of the sub-chiefs to become a chief and that is Lambwe Chomba. Again, during the time of President Dr Mwanawasa, SC., because of the controversies that surrounded Nsenga Chiefs in Petauke, Chief Mumbi was recognised. So, these things should be done on a case-by-case basis. Therefore, hon. Member of Parliament, if you are an interested party, please, bring your papers to the office. If they have merit, they will be considered accordingly. However, you will not be recognised as chief of Katombola.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, the minutes came from Chinsali. As a rider to Hon. Mucheleka’s question, where are the minutes on the two chiefs supposed to come from? Is it the BRE or Chinsali?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I hope that the hon. Member of Parliament heard me well when I said that, in the BRE, there are two lines of succession and arms. There are the Children of Ngoshe Mukote, …

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Tell them!

Prof. Luo: ... who come from Chinsali and start as Chief Chewe, become Chief Chikwanda and, later, Chief Nkula, who awaits becoming Chitimukulu. In Bemba, we say, ‘‘Babelamina bu Chitimukulu.’’

Prof. Luo: In the same place, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Translate!

Prof. Luo: They await. I want to say it the way it is said.

In the same area, we have Chief Nkweto, who looks after the Mwalule, the graveyards, and Chiefs Mubanga and Mukwikile, who are children of Chief Chitimukulu. The choice of a Bemba chief is, in fact, not based so much on the BRE. The person who has the final say is the Queen Mother and, in this case, for that lineage, it is Ngoshe Mukote. In the other lineage, one starts as Chief Mpepo, becomes Chief Nkolemfumu, then, Mwamba and, thereafter, waits to become Chitimukulu. The critical person there is the Queen Mother in the name of Chanda Mukulu.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Mulusa rose to raise a point of order.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

That is precisely what I advised on earlier, Hon. Member for Solwezi Central. I called on the hon. Member for Kabompo West to address the House but, before he could do so, you rose on a point of order. That is procedurally incorrect. Let us do what is correct.  

Hon. Member for Kabompo West, you may continue.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, thank you very much …

Mr Mulusa: On a point of order, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is the right thing to do. You have your point of order.

Mr Mucheleka rose on a point of order.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Not you, Hon. Mucheleka. I meant the hon. Member for Solwezi Central.

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, the problem is that you ask everybody to speak quickly. Therefore, there is no time and that is why I stood up.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Who said that you should ask questions quickly?

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: Sir, ...

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You are not being very fair or honest. I have never said that you should disobey your rules by asking your questions quickly, even before somebody takes the Floor. Therefore, can you withdraw that before I give you permission to raise your point of order. Otherwise, I will not give it to you.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I withdraw that statement.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Very good. You can now go ahead with your point of order.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, some of us fail to find literature on our culture, and I feel that the explanation given by the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs is very important to this nation. Is she in order to give such detailed and very important evidence on the procedures in Bemba Culture which, obviously, raises questions about the knowledge of Hon. Mucheleka on the same subject, without laying the evidence on the Table?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I think that she is in order. A question was asked and she gave a very detailed answer to that question. Therefore, she is in order. The hon. Member for Kabompo West may continue.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Mucheleka rose on a point of order.

Mr Lufuma: Yaa ...

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think that I have the responsibility to ensure that we proceed in an orderly manner. I will not allow any more points of order. 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is what I fail to understand. You see, you put us here so that we can make decisions. I have allowed several points of order and I now think that it will be counter-productive for that to continue. Therefore, as the person in this Chair, whom you have given authority, I have decided that way. 

The hon. Member for Kabompo West may continue.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Minister’s detailed explanation to this House. However, I am still at sea because, last week, the hon. Deputy Minister said that there would be no increase in the number of chiefs to be recognised in this country. Now, the hon. Minister says that people should bring documents before they are recognised. Which is the policy? I ask this question because all of us have documents.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member of Parliament had listened to me attentively, he would have heard me say that some people in these positions were already in the structure. They were being paid, but they are indunas or sub-chiefs in the gazette. We want to look at them on a case-by-case basis, instead of leaving them as indunas when we already pay them the same way we pay chiefs. That is why I said that, if some of us are interested parties, and there is one such person that you would like to bring to our attention, and we discover that the person is one of those on our list, then, we will deal with the case. 

Sir, let me also take this opportunity to inform this House that one of the assignments that my ministry has embarked on to deal with issues like the one we are discussing this afternoon, the wrangling in the chiefdoms and the re-writing of the history and procedures, is the production of a bulletin and chiefdom profile, which will describe all the issues I have discussed this afternoon, as well as a code of ethics for our royal establishments.

I thank you, Sir.

ZAMBEZI AND CHAMBESHI RIVER BASINS

71. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection:

(a)    what measures the Government had taken to mitigate the negative impact of climate change on the Zambezi and Chambeshi river basins;

(b)    whether there were alternative livelihood programmes for the people living in the basins;

(c)    if so, what the programmes were; and

(d)    if there were no alternative livelihood programmes, what the way forward for the affected people was.

The Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, there are two measures that have been taken to mitigate the negative impact of climate change on the Zambezi and Chambeshi river basins. One is the National Adaptation Programme of Action of 2007 (NAPA 2007), the other is the National Climate Change Response Strategy of 2011, although it is still in a draft form.

Mr Speaker, there are alternative livelihood programmes for people, especially those living in the Zambezi River Basin and other pilot areas.

Mr Speaker, the alternative livelihood programmes are bee-keeping, rice cultivation using improved rice cultivars, support  to non-timber forest products, promotion of climate-tolerant and short-duration crop varieties, promotion of climate-resilient livestock, scaling up of sustainable aquaculture development, encouraging value addition and processing of primary products and scaling up of conservation agriculture and agro-forestry.

Mr Speaker, there are livelihood programmes for the people living in the Zambezi River Basin and other pilot areas. However, they currently do not include the Chambeshi River Basin. Since the programmes in the other areas are on a pilot basis, we expect to replicate them in other areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, in view of the negative effects of climate change and global warming, and their negative impact on the livelihoods of the people who are in the mostly rural areas of the Zambezi and Chambeshi river basins, to what extent does the ministry collaborate with the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock in looking for alternative livelihoods for the people in the two basins?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is right. There are cross-cutting issues in this fight against climate change.  In fact, the main programme is being co-ordinated centrally from the Ministry of Finance and involves most of the relevant ministries.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned the strategies that this Government has instituted in dealing with the people who live around the Zambezi River Basin, which is shared by three or four other countries and there ought to be programmes in those countries as well. Is there any collaboration with Namibia, Botswana, Zimbabwe and Mozambique in dealing with the people who live there, especially with regard to the LED programme, which I know exists here. I am sure the hon. Minister understands the question.

The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Kalaba): Mr Speaker, a draft policy on climate change is already underway. Very soon, hon. Members of Parliament will have the opportunity to give their suggestions and advice before the policy is implemented. To answer the hon. Member’s question, it is true that our Government and other governments have been collaborating. When you talk about the Zambezi and Chambeshi river basins, you are covering almost the whole of Zambia. So, obviously, such an undertaking involves regional groupings and other countries.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, without commitment from international parties to the adaptation programme for Zambia, not much will be realised. What were the tangible outcomes of the last meeting of the parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) that will benefit communities like the one we are talking about?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question because it gives me the opportunity to explain that the hon. Minister of Finance and my ministry signed an agreement worth about US$93 million with the World Bank and the African Development Bank in Mongu under Phase II in June, this year. So, that is one of the things that came out of those deliberations. That money will help.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I come from the Zambezi River Basin and my constituency is also there. Of the programmes that the hon. Minister has outlined, Zambezi West Constituency is not one of the beneficiaries. Why?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, the truth of the matter is that the people in your constituency are benefitting because, among the many projects that …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, when you said ‘in your constituency,’ I was beginning to wonder whether you were addressing me or the hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can you address him, through me.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I was just trying to emphasise the point. What I wanted to say is that the projects are being undertaken in all the affected areas, and that soil techniques and crop diversification practices are being implemented in Zambezi West. 

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, one of the critical factors in climate change monitoring is research. How much research is being done in the ministry to inform policy formulation on the impact of climate change in the country?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa for that question because it gives the Government the opportunity to explain how much research is being conducted. Currently, there is a pilot programme for climate resilience, which has been under implementation in the ministries, of course, under the auspices of the World Bank. It is being spearheaded by the Ministry of Finance. Therefore, there is a lot of research being conducted by my ministry and all other relevant ministries.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, if I got the hon. Deputy Minister right, there is a document on the climate change strategy, which is in a draft form. When will this document be ready, as many areas, including those on the Kalungwishi and Mweru Wantipa basins, which are drying up, would benefit from its implementation?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, the development of the National Climate Change Response Strategy was done in 2011, and the draft is there.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister has indicated that the pilot projects are on-going in the Zambezi River Basin and my constituency is part of that basin, where are those pilot projects being implemented because we do not have any in Senanga?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, some of the areas where the pilot projects are being implemented are Namwala, Monze, Mazabuka, Itezhi-tezhi, Chibombo, Mumbwa and Kafue.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that some of the alternative livelihood programmes that he mentioned arise from the ingenuity of the local people in applying their survival skills, rather than Government initiative.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, the truth of the matter is that the whole process or enterprise of governance hinges on the people.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, I am sure that the hon. Minister has heard of KAZA-TFCA. What interventions do we have in KAZA-TFCA to help the communities in the Zambezi River Basin?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, let him explain the acronym he has used before I can answer the question.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that one of the areas where there are these pilot projects is Namwala. However, Namwala is not on the Zambezi River Basin.

The time for Questions for Oral Answer expired.

__________

MOTIONS

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, before the House adjourned yesterday, I was about to conclude my debate, having explained the shortcomings in fertiliser distribution. Today, I want to talk about governance.

Sir, the Ruling Party needs to be careful in how it handles issues of governance. We have had cases of people being arrested, detained for a number of days and released without being charged. We had a number of such cases in Livingstone, some involving us, hon. Members of Parliament, here.

Hon. UPND Members: That is true.

Mr Muntanga: There are cases of people being detained and, later, released in the Western Province …

Mr Nkombo: Mwembeshi.

Mr Muntanga: Some are now in Mwembeshi. Even if you are in the Government and able to withstand the pressure for now, it will be the Government and the people of Zambia who will have to pay when the victims start suing for wrongful detention and arrests.

Sir, we would like to appeal to our friends not to do things just because they want to subdue people and make the people obey their instructions. I think that, when the President said that we needed to work together and accommodate each other, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

There is only one person on the Floor. We are consulting loudly.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwaliteta: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Mr Mwaliteta: It is not on you, Hon. Muntanga.

Mr Speaker, yesterday, I witnessed a very sad situation for the first time in this House. The House adjourned prematurely because our colleagues thought that it was good for them to walk out and leave hon. Members who were too few to make a quorum.

Laughter

Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, are they in order to walk out whenever we are supposed to deal with issues in the House? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

We, as Presiding Officers, cannot tire of advising that this is the kind of points of order that cannot be sustained. You are raising a point of order on something that happened yesterday. It is procedurally incorrect. So, I cannot make a ruling on it. 

Continue, Hon. Muntanga.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we would like to talk about the Public Order Act.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours to 1630 hours.{mospagebreak}

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was talking about how political detentions should be checked and reduced. The hon. Member of Parliament for Siavonga’s driver, Isaac Zulu, has been detained in Rufunsa with no charge for nearly a year. This is not the way we should live.

Mr Speaker, the Public Order Act was applied on the Patriotic Front (PF) before it went into the Government, but it was still able to hold public meetings. I am not sure why the party is so scared of the Opposition. On one hand, PF members say that there is no Opposition, on the other, they do not want to give us permits.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: We have been applying for permits, but they have never been approved. Can you call yourself a good driver if you chase everyone off the road and remain alone? You cannot call yourself the best political party if you do not allow others to present their case. What scares you?

Mr Speaker, yesterday, I talked about the distribution of fertiliser, and I believe that the Executive heard what I said. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, among others, was not there, which was a sign of abdication that should not be entertained.

Sir, my appeal is that the Executive assists the President because what he has said will need the backing of all hon. Ministers. It needs the support of the hon. Minister of Finance so that the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, who was here yesterday, will stop having sleepless nights.

Mr Speaker, with these very few words, which were frequently interjected, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, I would like to join the many hon. Members who have expressed their condolences to the family and friends of our late brother and colleague, Mr Kennedy Sakeni, who was the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting. May his soul rest in peace.

Mr Speaker, I thank the mover of the Motion. 

Sir, the leadership of this country has been known as the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) since 1964. Political parties have come and gone, but the Government has remained.

Sir, it was said that the PF is only commissioning projects left by the previous Government. Sir, any responsible Government will not abandon what has been left by previous Governments.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Sata, has a vision for this country. For example, Shang’ombo District Hospital, which was started in 2005, was not funded from 2009 to 2011 because the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government had no interest in the people of the district. However, this Government came in and provided funding to complete the project. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, the projects being implemented are for the benefit of the people of Zambia. This shows how responsible the President is. We have not done it like the MMD, which abandoned everything that the United National Independence Party (UNIP) left behind …

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: … in 1991, when the former took over power. We have even built police stations where they did not exist, such as in Mwandi District. We will commission that police station in Mwandi while we are still in office because we are a responsible Government with a responsible President, who has a vision for this country. When the MMD came into power, it got excited and privatised everything and made over 200,000 people lose jobs. Of the 200,000, more than 60 per cent have since died. That is the cause of the many street kids that we see in Lusaka. They are children and grandchildren of those who died because of being denied their terminal benefits. 

Mr Speaker, in the twenty years of the MMD’s being in power, it only worked on 2,452km of roads.  In the two years of our being in the Government, we have already worked on 1,622km. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, the 2,452km translate into 120km per annum. The PF Government, on the other hand, has worked on an average of 811km per annum in the last two years. In its desperation to trick the people of Zambia and win the 2011 General Elections, the MMD Government started the Formula One Project, which is a shame. When you look at the report of the Auditor-General (AG), K170,000 was paid for someone to print six words on a billboard.

Mr Speaker, since coming into the Government, we have twenty-three district hospitals under construction, from Phase I to Phase III. For the first time in Zambia, we will have advanced life support ambulances on our highways. When we compare, who has done more? It is the PF Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to debate the Motion on the Floor. However, may I first pass my condolences to the family of the late Hon. Sakeni, the PF Party and the people of Mansa Central for the loss of a very able hon. Minister and Member of Parliament.  

Mr Speaker, coming to the President’s Speech, I would like to highlight some challenges in the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education that need urgent attention. The infrastructure in the schools is certainly not something about which one could be proud. I come from a rural constituency and have noted that rural constituencies suffer from a dire need of good school infrastructure, such as classrooms and teachers’ houses. 

Mr Muntanga: What about Habbanyoka?

Mrs Mazoka: Habbanyoka is better. 

Laughter

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, I see, however, that the Government has embarked on the very ambitious programme of building more infrastructure, in the form of classrooms and teachers’ houses, but it is neglecting to rehabilitate the existing infrastructure, which is falling apart. I wonder where the money will come from because, already, we have a Budget overrun. If we embark on too many projects, we risk having another Budget overrun, which I will consider very irresponsible. 

Mr Speaker, I do not know about urban schools, but the ones in rural areas do not have computer education, which is a very important component of education because the world is using Information and Communication Technology (ICT). Further, rural children learn from old and outdated books in classes with eighty-six children or more, but only one teacher per class. The ratio is worrying because no teacher can teach eighty-six children effectively. The teachers also share houses that are not much more than shacks. 

Mr Muntanga: Phiri.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, I will give an example of a very sad situation in ...

Mr Mutelo: In Washishi.

Mrs Mazoka: No, Pemba Constituency.

Laughter

Mrs Mazoka: About three weeks ago, when I went to visit the area, I found that two teachers, one married, the other single, were sharing one shack. The married one’s wife had given birth and I found the other teacher standing under a tree because he could not go into the house. In our African culture, a man cannot go into a house where someone has just given birth. 

Mr Muntanga: Dr Phiri.

Mrs Mazoka: When I asked him what he was going to do, he said that he might spend a night either in a classroom that was almost collapsing or ask a friend to accommodate him temporarily. So, I am surprised that this Government is thinking of building new houses and other infrastructure, instead of rehabilitating old ones.  

Sir, when President Sata talked about building universities in all provinces, what was the criterion used in building two universities in a new province while leaving others with only promises? Whatever criterion was used is wrong.

Hon. UPND Members: That is right.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, there are older provinces that deserved to be considered first, instead of a new province. 

Mr Muntanga: That is why Kabimba said there is tribalism.

Mrs Mazoka: The national resources should be shared equitably. Everyone must have a bite. They should not just benefit one area. Provinces like the Western, Southern, North-Western and Luapula have been left yawning.

Sir, let me talk about healthcare. The President stated that specialised equipment will be installed at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), Ndola and Kitwe central hospitals, and Livingstone General Hospital. On page 12 of his Speech, he further stated that: 

“These measures are aimed at affording more Zambians access to specialised quality healthcare services and, hence, reducing the cost associated with treatment abroad.”
 
Sir, I am glad that the President acknowledges that there is trouble in this sector. We will wait to see how this is going to work. There is a trend of the President or hon. Ministers seeking treatment in other countries whenever they get sick. These countries have put their hospitals in a good condition and that is why our leaders go there.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mazoka: They leave us, nonentities, to suffer in our ill-equipped hospitals that have no medicines. 

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mazoka: It is not fair because we all pay tax. Therefore, this measure is very welcome and we hope it will be implemented.

Mr Nkombo: Labour.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, I believe that what is good for the goose is good for the gander as well. So, next time I am ill, I expect to be flown out.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Livune: In the Presidential Jet.

Mrs Mazoka: Sir, in the agricultural sector, there is a lack of transparency in the distribution of fertiliser. The input is also distributed late. I remember that, once, my brother received his basal dressing fertiliser in February.

Mr Nkombo: Oh, oh!

Mrs Mazoka: He could not apply that fertiliser since time had elapsed. So, he had to keep it for the following season.

Mr Nkombo: He did not sell it?

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, in certain areas, we do not have qualified Agriculture Extension Officers and people tend to suffer as a result of not having access to technical expertise. Therefore, I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, although he is not here, …

Mr Nkombo: He will never be here. He is always absent.

Mrs Mazoka: … to look into this matter because we need agriculture and veterinary officers. The Southern Province is a cattle-rearing province and people are in need of these services. Once, I went to see the Provincial Veterinary Officer in Choma and was told that there was no veterinary officer to accompany me to my constituency because the only other officer was also needed in Mbabala, Namwala and other areas.

Mr Speaker, the hunger situation, especially in my constituency, is very saddening. Much as there are areas that did well, some did not. My people did not harvest much.

Ms Lubezhi interjected.

Laughter

Mrs Mazoka: This hunger situation will not end because farmers are being asked to pay K100 for a bag of fertiliser, this year, when they have not done well. If they could not afford K50 for a bag of fertiliser, it will be worse now when they do not have money due to a poor harvest. I do not know how the Government intends to tackle the problem. So, I urge it to rescind its decision to hike the price of fertiliser under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), especially this year, although it might be too late. The Government should be caring towards its citizens. When it realised that there were poor harvests this year, it should not have been harsh on the people by asking them to pay K100 for a bag of fertiliser.

Mr Muntanga: It does not care.

Mr Nkombo: We will start planting fertiliser.

Mrs Mazoka: Sir, coming to the Public Order Act, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mazoka: … I have noticed that it is being applied selectively. It is not applied on some party, yet it is harshly applied on others. That is wrong. We are all Zambians and brothers and sisters. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mazoka: That is God talking to us. So, I appeal to you …

Ms Kalima: Mwaliteta.

Mrs Mazoka: … to let us live as brothers and sisters. There is no need to fight because these are just politics. Governments come and go. You will not be there forever.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mazoka: One day, you will be out of power.

Mr Nkombo: Junza balainka aba.

Mrs Mazoka: Would you like to be subjected to this same kind of treatment when you are out of the Government? Please, I appeal to you from the bottom of my heart, as a mother, ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mazoka: ... to let us live peacefully. Let other political parties do their business just as you do yours. Do not be afraid of doing that. In fact, it will make people respect you more. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mrs Mazoka: While in the Opposition, you used to say that the MMD was denying you permission to campaign. You should have proved yourselves different by doing things differently and allowing other political parties to campaign freely.

Mr Nkombo: Look at them.

Mrs Mazoka: However, I am afraid, that is not the case because I …

Mr Nkombo: They are worse.

Mrs Mazoka: … personally witnessed a very bad incident.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, the President mentioned, in passing, the violence in the country. I expected him to go further in condemning the violence. He holds the peace in his hands. All he has to do is strongly condemn the violence and people will stop fighting. The PF members are squabbling among themselves. What will happen when they finish doing that? They will come for us. 

Laughter 

Mrs Mazoka: The President missed a golden opportunity to tell Zambians how he feels about the in-fighting and violence, …

Mr Nkombo: And the tribalism. 

Mrs Mazoka: … yet he is the father of this nation. 

Sir, I really expected him to condemn all manner of violence in the strongest terms possible, but he did not. Therefore, can we take it upon ourselves, as hon. Members of Parliament, to take peace to our people, …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mazoka: … so that we can live side by side as brethren?

Interruptions

Mrs Mazoka: Mr President, …

Laughter 

Mrs Mazoka: Sorry, you are now a President.  

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I wish to end my debate. However, …
 
Mr Mukanga left the Assembly Chamber.

Mrs Mazoka: … I want to implore everyone in this House, not only PF hon. Members, but also the Opposition, to live peacefully and in love. There is no …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, is the Hon. Leader of Government Business in the House …

Mr Muntanga: Acting. 

Mr Nkombo: … in order to walk out when, yesterday, you counselled him to make sure that all hon. Ministers were seated, a thing he had not done, which caused the failure to form a quorum? Is he in order to stroll away and leave only three hon. Ministers and two hon. Deputy Ministers?

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House is trying to commandeer his hon. Members of Parliament to come back into the House. 

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Pemba, you may proceed. 

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, there are many virtues, but the greatest of them is love. Let us have love for one another because love begets peace. My fervent prayer is that, one day, Zambia shall be peaceful. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for this rare opportunity, which comes once in a year and enables us to give feedback to the Government on how those who gave the mandate to the PF to rule them feel about the state of the nation, and how it is performing. 

Sir, I would like to start by paying tribute to my late colleague and elder brother, Hon. Sakeni. He was a good a friend and counsellor. No matter how much I debated against PF policies, he would walk up to me and say, “Uletujoina lilali?” 

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: Meaning?

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mulusa:  Mr Speaker, it means, “When are you joining us?” 

Mr Mwenya: Are you sure?

Mr Mulusa: He believed that each of us needed to live above the political divide. 

Mr Speaker, I wish to depart from that solemn disposition and seek guidance from the wisdom of Paul, the Apostle, who, in writing to the Romans, always started by appreciating the good things that they did before pointing out their weaknesses. In that regard, I would like to praise the PF Government for continuing the implementation of MMD projects, … 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: … which were contained in the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP), a document authored by the MMD, especially since the PF came into power without any strategy at all. 

Laughter 

Mr Mwenya: Question!

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, the PF Government came into power with a document called the Manifesto. My understanding of a manifesto is that it must be a high-level summary of the deliverables contained in a development strategy. When you pick up the summaries, then, a manifesto is created. When the PF came into power with only a manifesto, it was like a person who put fruits on an imaginary tree …

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: … and told the youths to look over the wall into his garden at the beautiful fruits. He, then, proceeded to invite them to jump over the wall and eat the fruits. The youths of our country, who constitute more than 6 million of our population, followed this wrong advice. They jumped over the wall and tried to climb the tree to get the fruits, but discovered that there was no tree. 

Laughter 

Mr Mulusa: The fruits hung in the air. 

Mr Speaker, the PF has been sincere enough to accept, on the Floor of this House, that it never had a strategy of its own. It has also come back to admit to us that it has tweaked the SNDP to speak back to its manifesto. Nowhere in the world can it happen like that. I will return to that shortly.

Sir, I have given the analogy of a tree and fruits. Fruits that hang on a tree are the culmination of some processes and factors that the tree has been exposed to, including the growth of the roots, the type of soil, the stem, branches, and the leaves, which give birth to flowers that, then, bear fruits. When the fruits are picked, the basket into which they are put is the equivalent of a manifesto. Therefore, PF members, where did you get your manifesto from since you did not have a tree?

Laughter {mospagebreak}

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, the same way the PF is entitled to a five-year term is, equally, the same way the people of Zambia, who voted for it, are entitled to quality services delivery. A failure to deliver services means that the party has not honoured its part of the social contract that it signed with the people of Zambia, and the honourable thing to do is to depart now. 

Laughter 

Mr Mulusa: Sir, the President’s Speech was not profound enough to act as a guiding document in policy formulation because it was vague, shallow and just an exercise to comply with the obligation that the President has of giving a State-of-the-Nation Address.  

Mr Speaker, I will go to the paragraph that is on how the PF came into Government to deal with the many socio-economic challenges that faced the Zambian people. How can such a statement guide policy formulation and the bureaucracy? It cannot. 

Mr Speaker, the President, in his Speech, needed to acknowledge that Zambia’s challenges consist of a lack of economic and social infrastructure, whose result is low industrialisation; and high levels of unemployment, a consequence of which is high levels of poverty and social vices, such as drug abuse, prostitution, early marriages, the existence of street children and violence. In trying to solve these problems, corruption comes in and becomes a very huge liability to the public.

I am happy that you re-introduced the Abuse of Office Clause in our laws …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: … because the rate at which you are committing crimes …

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: … and becoming new recruits into corruption is very high.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Are you saying that you are not corrupt? Can anyone of you put up their hand and say that they are not corrupt?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, we have, time and again, advised that this type of debate invites heckling and a lot of reaction from the other side. Besides, the rules of the game provide that we should not debate ourselves here. So, while I allow you to continue, bear that in mind.

You may continue.

Interruptions

Mr Mulusa: Sir, may I be protected from Hon. Chitotela.

Mr Chitotela: No. Why did you say that?

Mr Kalaba: Tomato sauce.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Allow the hon. Member to debate. The rules of the game are very clear. When an hon. Member is on the Floor, we are supposed to remain silent and listen to his or her contribution. Therefore, remarks like ‘tomato sauce’ …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: … can invite sanctions.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Do not think that I do not know who the heckler is. From this vantage position, I am able to see whoever is making unnecessary comments. So, please, desist from that practice. It is dishonourable.

May you proceed, Hon. Mulusa.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, may I issue the warning that I will lay anyone who argues with me on the Table of the House ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mulusa: … as evidence of a corrupt hon. Minister.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mulusa: Sir, normally, I believe in gathering real evidence before I come to the House to debate. In anticipation of the President’s Address, and after the withdrawal of some subsidises, I undertook a walk to Solwezi and interacted with people to find out, exactly, how they felt. 

Sir, the people are suffering.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Mulusa: Before the President’s Speech, I also commissioned a study on how people felt about it. I paid some people to spend time on minibuses while the President was speaking, ... 

Hon. Government Members: Aah! Corruption.

Mr Mulusa: … and to move around, go in the markets and stay in bars to gather evidence.

Mr Sikazwe: That is corruption.

Mr Mulusa: Sir, people who do not know how to do research will say it is corruption, but I was gathering data to give you feedback …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: … so that it might assist you in your policy formulation ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Mulusa: ... so that you formulate policies with productive outcomes and the ingenuity that is needed to move this country forward.

Mr Pande: You are right.

Mr Mulusa: So, you must be very appreciative.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Bob Sichinga ... Hon. Robert Sichinga could have asked me …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Do not debate other hon. Members of Parliament. If you have points to make, just do so without dragging other people into your debate.

You may continue.

Mr Mulusa: Sir, I just wanted to say that he would have asked me for a write-up.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Just proceed. You have been guided accordingly.

Mr Mulusa: Sir, the responses that I got were varied. Some said that they were not even aware that there was a State-of-the-Nation Address on that particular day; some asked what it was and of what importance it was to them; some said they loved listening to it because it provided them with entertainment; ...

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: ... while others said that it was a waste of time. However, some particularly important feedback came from the youths. Sir, the youths are worried and looking for solutions. I think that it is incumbent upon us, from the two divides of the House, to hold our hands and provide solutions to the problems facing the youths.

The youths’ cries are that they are discriminated against by the PF Government because all contracts are given to PF cadres, some of whom may not even have the capacity to deliver and end up sub-contracting to Chinese companies. The Chinese employ our youths to work at the rate of K25 per day. 

Mr Pande: Yet they are the owners of the contract.

Mr Mulusa: Yes, the owners of the contract.

Sir, the youths are also telling us that spending time in school is almost useless for the simple reason that they are not assured of ever getting a job.

Mr Speaker, in response to the President’s Speech, I propose that, before the Budget is presented, the hon. Minister of Finance takes time to address the plight of the youths in our country. It is simple. I have said it before on the Floor of this House, and I will say it again, the issuance of work permits is the simplest mechanism for safeguarding jobs for the Zambian people. However, we have many foreigners doing legitimate jobs in this country who should not be doing them because the jobs can be done by Zambians. Furthermore, our youths who graduate from tertiary institutions are unable to find employment because they have to compete with foreigners, who come with questionable skills because they tend to get the skills on the job here. They are also unable to find employment because they are asked to have three years of work experience when they have just qualified.

Sir, I propose that we create a fund or an incentive that companies that are able to provide internship for our children can benefit from so that our children, while in tertiary institutions, would be able to work in those institutions when on vacation or when tertiary institutions close unexpectedly. For us, as a Government, we can give them tax rebates as incentives.

Mr Speaker, I have said it before that we gave the banks of this country a 5 per cent tax remission. When you calculate how much taxes were being paid by the banks, it amounted to K500 billion, in the old currency, or K500 million, in today’s currency. Are you sure that, if we had used that K500 million, using this ingenuity that I am giving you today, we would not have achieved the job creation that we hoped the banks could achieve? Actually, the banks did not even lend that money to entrepreneurship projects. What grew were personal loans, which did not help at all.

Mr Speaker, is there hope for the Zambian people? Is there hope for the youths of Zambia under the PF Government?

Hon. Opposition Members: No hope.

Mr Mulusa: There is nothing. The PF is like a mad child who is born in the family and you have to live with it until it dies. We are a peaceful country. So, we will allow you to carry on until 2016 when your mandate will expire. However, you can do us a favour by stepping aside. If you do that, you will be considered more honourable people than if you continue messing us up. I am sorry, Sir.  I withdraw the phrase ‘‘messing us up.’’

The Deputy Chairperson: I expected that.

Mr Mulusa: It will be more honourable than continuing to create the kind of confusion that you are creating, whereby you have even inconvenienced a very humble tribe, the Bembas. In this country, people think Bembas are tribal when they are not. They just have wrong leaders who are masquerading as Bembas and messing them up.

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: Sir, you do not need to favour the Bembas the way you seem to be doing. Among foreign missions, there are some where all the staff, from the ambassador right down to the lowest person, are Bemba. That is wrong. There were many …

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament, who is debating so badly and dancing all over the place, as if he is doing a foxtrot, …

Laughter

Prof. Luo: … in order to bring the Bemba leadership into disrepute in this House without laying evidence of those bad leaders on that Table?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Allow the hon. Minister to make her point of order.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member, who is debating so badly and dancing all over the place, as if he is dancing Cha cha cha, in order to bring the Bembas into disrepute and accuse them of being tribal in this House?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that, as you debate, please, take that into account, Hon. Mulusa. Do not bring the Bemba leadership, which is not here, into your debate. 

You may proceed.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, she is my aunt. Otherwise, I would have laid her on the Table of the House.

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, the danger with tribally-inclined appointments, whereby only people from a particular tribe are being favoured, is that we are creating a future middle class from one tribe. When you send people who belong to one tribe into foreign missions, …

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central, who did not disclose how far he had walked before he jumped on a minibus in Solwezi, in order to continue insinuating that appointments in the Civil Service are on tribal lines without being factual? You have guided us that we need to be factual. If he has facts, let him lay them on the Table of this House.

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that, while the rules of the game require hon. Members to be factual, it is my view that the manner he has debated, in this particular instance, would call for an appropriate response when the relevant hon. Minister takes the Floor.

Hon. Member for Solwezi Central, you may proceed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was driving home the point that, when you have people from a particular group …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mulusa remained standing.

The Deputy Chairperson: I think, let us allow the hon. Member to debate. You see, until now, we are allowing … 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

May you take your seat, please.

Mr Mulusa resumed his seat.

The Deputy Chairperson: We are allowing hon. Members of the Back Bench to debate. Later, there will be an opportunity for hon. Ministers to respond. Therefore, when we make rulings, as I have done, it should put you on your toes so that, at an appropriate time, you can pick up the points raised and respond to them. If you choose to ignore them, that is up to you. I do not have the power to compel you to address them. The only power I have is to direct the proceedings, and the ruling is that the points that he has raised can be appropriately responded to by the hon. Minister responsible. I also know that there are so many on my right who can ably respond to that.

Hon. Member, please, proceed.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that, when the majority of Cabinet members and appointments in the Civil Service come from a particular province, as is the case, …

Mrs Kawandami: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Let us allow her to make the point of order.

Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to speak on matters outside the President’s Speech? I do not recall anything about tribal appointments or appointments outside the country. There is nothing to that effect in the Speech. Is he in order to continue speaking in that manner?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

May the hon. Member continue, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, for the hon. Ministers who did not read the Speech, the President said:
    
“Zambians are not only entitled to better lives, but they deserve better lives.”

Sir, I want our children to have parents who will have had a fair opportunity to be appointed Cabinet Ministers, hold senior positions in parastatals and the diplomatic service, and take their children abroad and educate them so that, in future, those children can come and compete fairly with children from all provinces, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: … instead of children from one province having a head start on children from other provinces.

Mr Speaker, lastly, I would like to talk about my constituency, Solwezi Central.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, on my left!

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication for assuring me that the Solwezi/Chingola Road will be worked on. I hope that will also include a contract to work on the township roads because the numerous vehicles on those roads are causing the death of many people. Apart from those who die, many suffer from air-borne diseases. I can assure you that every hon. Member of Parliament who goes to Solwezi will come back with flu not because the area is infested with flu, but because it is so prone to dust that it is hell on earth.

With those few words, I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Minister for Central Province (Mr Mwaliteta): Mr Speaker, I would like to join all the hon. Members of Parliament who have paid tribute to the late Hon. Sakeni. May his soul rest in peace. 

Sir, I am grateful for this rare opportunity to request the House to join me in saluting His Excellency the President for having delivered such an inspiring Speech, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaliteta: … not only to us, hon. Members of Parliament, but to the nation at large.

Mr Speaker, I want to differ, a bit, with those who congratulated a certain hon. Member for tearing the President’s Speech last year. I am glad that there was a change this time. Hon. Members should know that the President of the Republic of Zambia is a very experienced former hon. Member of Parliament. He has been an hon. Member of Parliament for many years, more than some of us here. So, he knows how to handle issues of Parliament. I want hon. Members to take note of that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, this Speech is the basis upon which all stakeholders will shape their development interventions for 2014. Allow me to echo His Excellency’s words sentiments that the House had fruitful deliberations during the last session despite the diverse political representation and, to sum it all, divergent views.

Laughter 

Mr Mwaliteta: Indeed, the spirit of brotherhood demonstrates our common interest in the development of our beloved country, though our colleagues used to walk out time and again. Allow me, at this juncture, to laud the Speaker of this august House, for …

Interruptions 

Mr Mwaliteta: I am an hon. Minister. I have to respect him.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, on my left!

Allow the hon. Minister to deliver his speech.

Mr Muntanga interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member for Kalomo Central!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

We are using the Queen’s language.

Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, I further pay tribute to His Honour the Vice-President for his distinguished leadership in managing the affairs of this House. The positive words of commendation of the House by His Excellency the President came with a call for all hon. Members of Parliament, regardless of their political affiliation, to continue working with this Government in the delivery of socio-economic development to the Zambian people, whom we are all called to serve. His Excellency the President ably presented …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwaliteta: … facts before this august House, showing the current state of the nation, the positive developments being achieved and the outlook for 2014 and beyond. He also pledged to diversify the economy and guide the development process in line with the Vision 2030, re-aligned SNDP 2013-2016 and the Decentralisation Policy for our country. Hon. Members, let us all, therefore, rise to the occasion and take a leading role by effectively delivering development to the ministries, provinces and constituencies we represent.

Mr Speaker, allow me to also highlight some of the salient aspects of the Speech relating to the measures that the PF Government will undertake in 2014. On education, allow me to quote a common phrase relating to its importance:

“If you think education is expensive, try ignorance.”

Laughter

Mr Mwaliteta: The President, on page 7, …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

May you, please, allow me to enjoy the presentation.

Laughter

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, the President, on page 7 of his Speech, spoke about the need to accelerate the completion of secondary schools. I am pleased to state that seven out of thirty-two constructed secondary schools have opened. This has made education accessible to a number of young girls and boys in the Central Province. Five secondary schools are being constructed while sites for the construction of three others have been handed over to contractors. Once all these projects have been completed, access to secondary school education will remarkably increase while the improved pupil-teacher ratio will impact positively on the quality of education. In this regard, the Government is fulfilling its promise to improve access to education and its quality.

Mr Speaker, in the Central Province, we are pleased to have another university. In addition, the infrastructure at Mulungushi University is being expanded …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

On my left, please, let us consult less loudly. You were given the opportunity to contribute. Now, let us give him the opportunity to also do so. We are not stopping you from consulting. 

Hon. Opposition Members: He is reading.

The Deputy Chairperson: An hon. Minister reads. So, there is nothing out of this world in what he is doing. The point is that we should allow the hon. Minister to make his contribution in a conducive environment.

Proceed, hon. Minister.

Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, we are pleased to have another university in the Central Province. In addition, the infrastructure at Mulungushi University is being expanded. We thank the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education for that. Furthermore, the Government upgraded the Malcolm Moffat College of Education to offer diploma programmes in primary education. As rightly noted by our President, this will go a long way in improving the quality of education and normalising the pupil-teacher ratio. 

Sir, in the previous regime, the concentration was on trade skills training without due consideration for the need for technicians and technologists to bridge the gap. The PF Government has transformed Kabwe Trades Training Institute into an institute of technology now known as Kabwe Institute of Technology (KIT). This transformation has made the institute reposition itself as a resource centre.

Mr Speaker, the agricultural sector is key to ensuring national food and nutritional security, mitigating high poverty levels and creating job opportunities, as His Excellency rightly stated on page 13 of his Speech. To this end, the PF Government decided to pay more attention not only to diversifying the economy, but also to diversifying the agricultural sector in order to make it the mainstay of our economy. The Central Province has great potential in agricultural production and has taken the issue of diversification very seriously.

Mr Speaker, on page 21 of the Speech, His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, indicated that the Government would scale up interventions aimed at accelerating the improvement of people’s living standards to ensure that rural districts are well developed in the province. The PF Government has continued to facilitate the completion of the Itezhi-tezhi Hydro Power Plant on the Itezhi-tezhi Dam and ensure that the project is completed by December, 2015. In addition, feasibility studies are being undertaken for the construction of the Muchinga Hydro Power Plant on the confluence of Mulungushi and Lusemfwa Rivers. All this is being done in rural areas. The two projects will go a long way in facilitating employment creation, rural development and inclusive growth.

Ms Kalima: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Just continue.

Mr Mwaliteta: Sir, infrastructure is key to the realisation of sustainable economic development in the country. The PF Government promised the people of Zambia to develop and rehabilitate road and railway infrastructure. In support of this, His Excellency the President indicates on page 31 of his Speech that the Government is investing heavily in the construction, rehabilitation and upgrading of the transport infrastructure in this country. It is, therefore, pleasing to note that, in the Central Province, the PF Government completed the rehabilitation of 120km of roads in the Kafue National Park and is about to complete tarring the 65km Mumbwa/Landless Corner Road in uncle Shikapwasha’s constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Mr Mwaliteta: Yes.

Sir, 155km of rural roads have been graded and works are in progress to rehabilitate and upgrade 30km to 47km of urban roads in Kabwe and Kapiri Mposhi. In addition, two weighbridges are being constructed in Mumbwa and Kapiri Mposhi, respectively.

Mr Speaker, feasibility studies have been conducted for the tarring of the Mumbwa Junction/Itezhi-tezhi Road while the designs for tarring the Itezhi-tezhi/Namwala and Itezhi-tezhi/Dundumwezi roads have been submitted for consideration. These projects will be done by the Government in partnership with the African Development Bank (ADB) under the Pilot Project for Climate Resilience, Phase II. 

Mr Speaker, on rural development, in Kafue Constituency, we have experienced a lot of infrastructure development. Today, if I want to visit Chiawa in my constituency, I will just go through State Lodge because the Government has constructed a direct road, instead of the one that goes through Siavonga.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Guidance is needed. You are speaking as an hon. Deputy Minister. Therefore, you have to debate issues that affect the whole nation, not only about your constituency.

You may proceed.

Mr Mwaliteta: Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

Hon. Government Member: Uli mwaume sana, iwe!

Laughter

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: Aah, twatukwa!

Ms Kalima: … I thank you for allowing me to add my voice to the debate on the President’s Speech. Firstly, allow me to congratulate Hon. Mtolo on the victory in the Chipata Central Constituency By-election.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, I also congratulate Hon. Peter Kafunka Phiri on the 9-1 white-wash in the Mkaika By-election. I further want to congratulate all the other hon. Members of Parliament, especially those from the Opposition, who emerged victorious in the recent by-elections. They are welcome to Parliament.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, allow me to thank the people of the Eastern Province for proving that they cannot be cheated and that they are people of integrity.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

The word ‘cheated’ is unparliamentary, please.

Ms Kalima:  Mr Speaker, I withdraw that word and replace it with ‘misled’. The people of the Eastern Province cannot be misled. They showed that they are people of integrity, who know what they stand for.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to state that, for me, the President’s Speech was hollow, lacked substance, …

Mr Sikazwe: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson:  A point of order is raised.

Hon. Opposition Member:  Minister of jealousy.

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the chance to raise my point of order. Is the hon. Member on the Floor, who has started her debate wrongly …

Interruptions

Mr Sikazwe: … like she has no direction, in order to only congratulate the men folk and forget to congratulate a lady, … 

Ms Kapata: A fellow woman!

Mr Sikazwe: … her fellow woman? 

Hon. MMD Member: She is in order!

The Deputy Chairperson: She is in order in so far as she is exercising her right to choose who to congratulate. 

Hon. Member for Kasenengwa, may you continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, for me and, I believe, many others, the President’s Speech was hollow, empty, without substance and inconsistent, and I will show why I deemed it so.

Mr Mulenga: You are the one who is hollow.

Ms Kalima:  Mr Speaker, I will try to compare the three Speeches that I have been privileged to listen to in this House.  

Let me start with education. On page 13 of the 2011 Speech, the President stated that Chalimbana and Palabana colleges would be upgraded to fully-fledged university status. Indeed, in 2013, he re-affirms that, but failed to explain to us whether the project will be completed in eighteen months as stated in 2011. In his 2013 Speech, he failed to indicate to this House the stage at which we are in upgrading of those colleges and whether, indeed, we will complete them in eighteen months. 

Mr Speaker, in 2011, when the President came to this House, he indicated that basic schools would be abolished and community schools taken over by the Government. That was re-affirmed by the hon. Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, Hon. Kapata, in answering one question, and it created anxiety, especially for the people in Kasenengwa. 

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kapata: Sir, I stand on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member debating in order to say that I re-affirmed the declaration on community schools when they do not fall under my ministry? Is she in order to attribute that to me? 

I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Member debating should take that serious point of order into account and to stick to facts.

You may continue, Hon. Kalima.

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the guidance.  

Sir, the President stated that basic schools would be abolished, and that created anxiety in the people, especially in the rural areas. We all know that basic schools are the only sources of post-primary school education in rural areas.

Mr Speaker, the people of Kasenengwa, time and again, when we have had meetings, have wanted to know what, exactly, would happen to the children in basic schools because they do not have secondary schools. In the 2013 Speech, the President failed to explain what, exactly, the policy on basic schools is, especially since it is now two years since that policy was pronounced.

Mr Speaker, on health, on page 14 of his 2011 Speech, the President stated that the good health of our citizens is a vital precondition for national development. Our health service delivery system is presently characterised by ineffectiveness due to inadequate, overworked, poorly-remunerated and demotivated human resource, and shortages of essential drugs. The President also stated that, in view of the grave state of affairs in the health sector, the PF Government would address obstacles to the provision of quality healthcare. In the 2012 Speech, on page 28, the President, again, stated that his Government had increased the budget to the health sector by 47 per cent, and that the increase had improved and stabilised the availability of essential drugs in all health facilities. In 2013, the President re-affirms that on page 10. However, I want to state that the President, again, just made empty statements in the sense that this was not true because we have acute shortages of drugs in this country. Currently, we have a shortage of the Bacille Calmette-Guerin (BCG) vaccine. Newly-born children are not able to access the vaccine at birth. We have also had a shortage of anti-retroviral (ARV) drugs in hospitals.

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, as you know, I rarely rise on points of order.

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: However, I have been compelled to rise on this one. Is the hon. Member of Parliament, who is the second to dance foxtrot this afternoon, in order to mislead this nation that health service delivery is all about drugs when this Government has, actually, re-aligned the basis for healthcare by creating a ministry for maternal and child health? Is she in order to come here and take us backwards to thinking that health is all about drugs? 

I need a serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that you have sufficiently debated your point of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. UPND Members: Ngoshe Mukote.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, on page 28 of his 2012 Speech, the President stated, and I ask those who do not have the Speech to, please, check with their neighbours who have it:

“My Government increased the budget to the health sector by 47 per cent. The increase has improved and stabilised the availability of essential drugs in the health facilities.”

That is what I am referring to. The President spoke about the stable supply of drugs, but I am saying that we do not have drugs in clinics and hospitals. Currently, we have a shortage of the BCG vaccine. Newly-born children cannot access it. 

Mr Mwamba entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Aleisa!

 Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, we also have a shortage of ARVs. The hon. Minister of Health came to this House and stated that, actually, it was not a shortage, but a reduction of the supply of the drugs from three months to two weeks. However, in places like Kasenengwa, where clinics are not near to the people they serve – they are about 40km away from the people – reducing the accessibility of the ARVs to two weeks is not easy on the people because they have to walk the long distances more often to access the drugs.

Mr Speaker, as an hon. Member of Parliament …

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I apologise to my dear sister, the hon. Member for Kasenengwa, for disturbing her debate. I observed quietly as the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama Central was entering the House. As he was about to take his seat, he rubbed the top of his head. In this country, that gesture is currently used everywhere by people to signal that they will be the next President.

Laughter

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, is he in order to give us that gesture when Hon. Wynter Kabimba is here?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that, unfortunately, the Chairperson did not notice that gesture as he was attentively listening to the contribution by the hon. Member on the Floor. 

Hon. Kalima, may you, please, continue.
    
Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted, I said that the situation that we have in this country under PF rule has never been seen before. The MMD Government worked very hard to ensure that the people of Zambia accessed ARVs when they were first introduced in the country. Ironically, the shortages are being experienced after the PF Government removed subsidies …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!    

May there be order on my left, please.

Ms Kalima: … and borrowed the Eurobond.

Mr Speaker, I expected the President to come to this House and explain and, probably, apologise to the Zambian people for the shortages that his Government has made them face.

Mr Speaker, on agriculture, we heard the President, on page 28 of his Speech, state that the objective of agriculture is to achieve a dynamic, competitive, diverse and suitable agricultural sector that assures food security and increased income at all levels. Again, that was nothing, but empty words. How can you ensure national food security and increased income at all levels when payments to farmers in the country are delayed? Most farmers in Zambia have not been paid by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), yet they depend on that income for their livelihoods. How can you have food security when seed companies, which are supposed to supply improved seed, have not been paid for their services? How can you have food security in the country when the co-operatives – I was in Kasenengwa and when I spoke to my people, they said that they had not started making contributions to FISP. 

Sir, how can you talk about food security and increased income at all levels through agriculture if top-dressing fertiliser has not even reached the country? The information I have is that top-dressing fertiliser is still in Saudi Arabia because, this year, the Government did not buy from Omnia Fertiliser Zambia Limited and Nyiombo Investments Limited but, instead, decided to import it. When this fertiliser comes to the port in Dar-es-Salaam, it will have to be re-packed into 90kg bags and transported to Lusaka before being distributed, yet the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock bragged in this House that he would be able to complete the distribution of fertiliser under FISP by the end of September. 

Sir, how can you talk about food security and increased income at all levels when the subsidies have been reduced or removed at the production level. How can you talk about food security when you have no policy stability? From 2011, we have been hearing the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock talk about the e-voucher system, and it was very sure about its implementation of the programme. Firstly, it was Hon. Chenda and, then, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, Hon. Robert Sichinga, who stated to this House that the Government did not understand the complexity of the e-voucher system and that the implementation would only be concluded in December, 2013. This shows that this Government just makes pronouncements before it analyses how it can implement programmes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, talking about food security in such a manner is just mockery to the Zambian people because this is a country where two-thirds of farmers depend on agriculture for their livelihoods. Eighty per cent of farmers in this country operate on a small scale. It was, indeed, a mockery for the President to come to this House and talk about national food security and increased income at all levels.

Mr Speaker, I expected the President to take an opportunity like he was accorded to explain the subsidies, especially since he has failed to hold a press conference in over two years. I expected him to take advantage of the situation …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: … and explain the removal of subsides, especially after he sent his hon. Ministers to explain the issue. He is the Chief Minister and should have taken advantage of the opportunity to explain why his Government removed the subsidies. Unfortunately, the President did nothing at all. Therefore, there was no need for him to send his hon. Ministers out to the constituencies to explain the matter. It was very disappointing for me because I was anxious to hear my President, the President of the Republic of Zambia, talk about the subsidies.

Mr Speaker, it is sad to see the violence that has rocked this country. The President, on page 35 of his Speech, spoke about his commitment to upholding the rule of law, the separation of powers and the fight against corruption. However, I am disappointed that he did not take time to condemn the violence in the country and, especially, the hatred, injustice, unfairness and tribalism that is there. During the by-election in Chipata Central, the seat for the gallant Hon. Mtolo Phiri, Hon. Mwale, Hon. Levy Ngoma and I were victims of violence in full view of the police. We were beaten by PF thugs in front of police officers, but they could not do anything. I was very shocked, but I now understand, after seeing the in-fighting that has befallen the PF. After failing to touch the Opposition, which they have realised is very peaceful and loving, PF members have ended up fighting each other.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, this shows how peaceful and smart the Opposition is.

Sir, it is very disappointing to see that even hon. Ministers in the PF have started confessing how tribal the PF is, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: … how the PF is the most undisciplined party ever to exist in this country and how corrupt the PF Government is. Above all, we heard an hon. Minister confess that the PF Government was dead. I even wonder why I am talking right now because I am talking to people in a dead party, which means that they are dead.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Ms Kalima: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I want to say that I expected the President to condemn the violence that has befallen the PF. Since he failed to do so, I, Victoria Kalima, hon. Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa, condemn the violence in the PF on his behalf.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: I want to tell the hon. Ministers in the PF to stop it. Stop the fighting, hatred, corruption and tribalism.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Any further debate? The hon. Member for Katombola.

Mr Muntanga: Ngoshe Mukote!

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for giving me the opportunity to debate the Motion on the Floor. From the outset, allow me, on behalf of the people of Katombola Constituency and, indeed, myself, to join the rest of the hon. Members in this House and the people of Mansa in grieving. Our hearts are very heavy at having lost Hon. Sakeni. It is normally difficult to describe how people feel in such moments but, in a nutshell, we mourn with the PF and the people of Mansa.

Sir, allow me, also, to adopt the good debates of my colleagues who have debated before me; those who have put across the inadequacies in the Republican President’s Speech, which is before us. I am not too sure of Hon. Mwaliteta’s because I did not get anything. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: So, I exclude it from my adoption.

Laughter 

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, because many things have been said, I will try to be brief and debate only the salient points that I expected the Republican President to address that day when the solemn moment came for the people of Zambia to listen to the father who had not spoken to them for over two years.

Sir, page 7 of the Speech addresses education, one matter that is very dear to my heart, and I think that it is only fair that we put across our feelings so that the hon. Minister can capture them and solve the many problems that we face. 

As an hon. Member of Parliament for a rural constituency, I am disadvantaged. In Kazungula and many other areas like Mapatizya, Dundumwezi, Namwala, Bahati, Chasefu and Kasenengwa, it is important that we demand, from the outset, that the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, as he brings the budget to this House, considers giving us reasonable amounts of money to upgrade our community schools like was done to Muchinga Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, it is not a secret. We heard that community schools were to be upgraded and we are waiting for the same to be done in our constituencies.

Sir, what is happening currently is that the people in the communities are moving faster than the Government. Many of the community schools that we have have 1 x 2 and 1 x 3 classroom blocks. All that is remaining is to get them gazetted by the State and accorded salary structures. However, the current situation on the ground is that the teachers in those schools are mainly Grade 9 failures; people who have not even reached Grade 12, in other words.

Interruptions 

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, what I am trying to say is that …

Interruptions 

Mr Livune: This is true. There is nothing to question about it. If you are in an urban area, leave those of us from the rural areas to lament because this is happening to us.

Interruptions

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, just before this House opened, I visited an area. If the hon. Minister wants, he can also go there. This place is in Kazungula District, Chief Moomba’s area, and has the following schools: Sandonji, Kalobe and Mabwe. At Mabwe, there are children learning there. They are Zambians just like other children in this country. These children, more than ninety of them, are taught by a Grade 9 failure and learn in a mud-and-pole classroom. It is a very sad situation, but I do not know how I can describe it. However, I expect reasonable attention on such schools from the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. I think, that is the situation in most parts of this country.

Sir, matters of education are non-partisan. The only thing we need to do is work together and sort out these social evils in our midst.

Mr Speaker, I urge the Government to gazette the schools and give them salary structures because they qualify. In many cases, they are about 5km to 10km apart. We, therefore, demand that we be told the Government’s policy on the distribution of schools across the country. What is the standard? We want to know all these issues. Most of these children are very young, ranging from seven years to other ages that need parental care. Can the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education attend to these important matters.

Sir, in some cases, a district is given a salary structure or a number of teachers to employ but, in reality, because of some administrative inadequacies, some schools have been gazetted, but not given a salary structure. So, the authorities are transferring some teachers who may already be on the structure of one school to teach at another, which means that a vacuum is created at the first school. So, there is a shortage of teachers in these areas. Overall, we will be told that the district has the required number of teachers when, in the real sense, there is a deficiency somewhere. So, can the hon. Minister help us in that regard. It is also important to stress the need for us to help each other and move in that direction.

Sir, I move to another important area on which I expected to get some important pronouncements, namely, agriculture, on page 13 of the President’s Speech. We heard the commendation, here, that the ministry was doing well. On the other hand, we also heard in the good debate by Hon. Miyanda of Mapatizya that animals were dying.  It is true that animals are dying, although the President said that the ministry was doing very well. How is that possible?

Ms Lubezhi: Where?

Mr Livune: How? What a mismatch. If people are doing well, why are animals dying?

Hon. UNPD Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: That is the question that needs serious answers. The animals are dying because the ministry is not supported by policies. 

Ms Lubezhi: Yes.

Mr Livune: What we expect is that the Livestock part of the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock is given the attention that it requires. We do not need industrial clusters before we can deal with our animals. We want our animals to survive so that the clusters can have a basis on which to flourish.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: You can only get animal hides after keeping a lot of animals. It is then that you can ask for a cluster. You also must have a large number of animals before you can create a beef cluster. It is not necessary to talk about clusters before preliminary things are put in place.

Mr Speaker, I expected to get important policy pronouncements on that day, one of which was the re-alignment of the construction of dams from the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, which knows how to place dams where the animals are.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
    
Mr Livune: You cannot expect the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to look after animals when it cannot construct a dam without first going to beg from another ministry. We need to differentiate things. The dams for livestock must move to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock while those for use by people should remain with the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development. The dams and boreholes used to fill dip tanks should be moved to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock so that we are able to get everything from one ministry. We talk about the one-stop-shop concept to remove bureaucracy and time-wasting. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock will do better when he has those facilities at his disposal because he will be able to save the animals and qualify the statement that the ministry is doing very well. We need the Government to get serious and stop the empty rhetoric.

Ms Lubezhi: That is right.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, hon. Ministers must be able to make serious decisions. I draw your attention to one particular area in Kazungula, in Sikaunzwe Ward, Chief Sekute’s area. A huge river, the Ngwezi River, opens up and becomes more or less like a flood plain when it reaches that area. This water fills the area and our people there have serious problems during the rainy season. So, we would like to see canals dug in that area to control the water and make the lives of our people easier.

Sir, I wonder what hon. Ministers think happens in those areas when there are floods during the rainy season and people need to dispose of human … I am trying to look for a proper word to dignify what I am referring to. 

Laughter

Mr Livune: In short, I am talking about ‘human waste’ because it is a bit dignified. If I went ahead to call it what it really is, it would be very embarrassing. I would like the hon. Minister to attend to that because, during the rainy season, human waste ‘swims’ in the water there …

Hon. UPND Member: Swimming?

Laughter 

Mr Livune: It ‘swims’ all over the area, yet we have a Government in place that is allowing those harmful things to float everywhere.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Livune: Yes, attend to those things. Do not just sit here and say ‘Question’. I wonder how our people are able to access services from health posts during the rainy season. It is a terrible situation. The hon. Minister of Health should collaborate with his colleagues to provide solutions so that we take some sort of dignity to those areas. 

Mr Speaker, I would also like to refer you to another serious matter that was not given enough emphasis. On page 29 of the President’s Speech, I am not sure whether the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art is in the House or she has run away, ...

Hon. Opposition Member: She is in Livingstone.

Mr Livune: … or if she is in Livingstone as a tourist. My major concern, as a person who comes from an area like Kazungula and Livingstone, because there is a very thin line between Kazungula and Livingstone, ...

Hon. Member: And Mwandi.

Mr Livune: ... and Mwandi, of course, is the issue of human-animal conflict. 

Sir, while the President was in the Opposition, he is on record sympathising with us in areas, which include Luangwa, where people are killed by wildlife nearly on a daily basis. I expected pronouncements on what compensation would be given to the families of victims of human-animal conflict. I expected pronouncements on when the Zambia Wildlife Act would be revised. Those are the types of serious issues that should have been brought to the Floor of this House. 

Mr Speaker, sometimes, my constituency loses up to three people in a day to elephants, crocodiles, hippos and other animals. 

Sir, my name is Livune, which means, “Save yourself.” However, when you save yourself, the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) is quick to arrest you. The PF Government told us that it would value human life more than animal life, but it now seems to value animal life more than human lives. People are dying every day, but there is no compensation. Sometimes, ZAWA even fails to help us to bury the people killed by animals, which is very shameful. There is no amount of compensation that can replace a person’s life. Once someone is gone, they are gone. 

Sir, it is not a crime for our people to stay in the areas where they were born. They cannot go anywhere else. They will be there until Jesus Christ finds them. Therefore, we expect the Government to attach some importance to this serious issue.

Mr Speaker, as a Member of Parliament for a rural constituency, I would like to talk about this monster called the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). I expected a serious announcement abolishing this unit, as it is doing more harm than good to most of us in the districts. We expect that the relevant ministries responsible will deal directly with the local authorities. Once this is done, it will be in line with the Decentralisation Policy. If statistics were collected on how many rural roads have been worked on by this unit, I am not sure whether it would be a significant number. If anything, it would be 0.1 per cent. I expected this unit to be abolished so that the districts can benefit directly.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, lastly, I would like to inform our colleagues that it is important to be humble enough to attend to the issues as we talk about them. Like they have been counselled before, they may be in the Government today and out tomorrow. We have heard that these people are riders, but it is also true that, to some extent, they are murderers …

Hon. Government Member: Aah!

Mr Livune: Yes, because …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, you have guided us not to come with our mobile phones into this House. Is the hon. Minister of Defence in order to answer a call here?

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: I did not see him because I was listening to the contribution but, if he has done that, then, it is out of order and the earlier it is taken out the better.

Continue, Hon. Livune.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I was talking about our colleagues being …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

(THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair)

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended – unfortunately, time is jealous – I was about to state that it is important to remind each other that some wise man wrote that when evil men rule, people mourn, but when just men rule, people rejoice. Is it not evil to condone violence in the nation? Is it not evil to deny your colleagues permits to hold peaceful meetings? It is evil. It is, therefore, important that our colleagues try to do some introspection so that they get to appreciate the norms of mutual survival. Let us live in symbiosis.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development, Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

___________

The House adjourned at 1832 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 3rd October, 2013.