Friday, 30th June, 2017

Printer Friendly and PDF

Friday, 30th June, 2017


The House met at 0900 hours


[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]












Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of the following Hon. Members of Parliament and staff from the Parliament of Zimbabwe:


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwale: Our twins!


Mr Speaker:


  1. Hon. Mabel Chinomona, MP - Deputy Speaker - Leader of the Delegation;
  2. Hon. Dr Paul Chimedza, MP;
  3. Hon. Dingilizwe Tshuma, MP;
  4. Hon. Melania Mahiya, MP;
  5. Hon. Susan Matsunga, MP;
  6. Hon. Nonvula Mguni, MP;
  7. Mrs Edna Mufuruse - Committee Researcher;
  8. Mr Yeukai Chuma - Committee Researcher;
  9. Mr Simeon Chifamba - Deputy Speaker’s Aide; and
  10. Mrs Abigail Chingoka - Director of Health Services.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Harare! Bulawayo! Ema MP aya!


Mr Speaker: I would like, on behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, to receive our distinguished guests, and warmly welcome them in our midst.


I thank you.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Ms Mulenga: Thumbs up! Applauded.


Hon. Members: Aah!




Mr Speaker: I cannot rule them out of order!




Mr Mushanga: Zambia na Zimbabwe zino pindurana!







The Vice President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the Business it will consider next week.


Sir, on Wednesday, 5th July 2017, the Business of the House will start with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider Private Members Motions, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Government Assurances.


Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 6th July 2017, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs Affairs.


On Friday, 7th July, 2017, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time. After that, the House will consider Questions to ministers, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Estimates on the Performance of the Quarter Review of the 2017 Budget.


Sir, I thank you.






Members were not indicating to speak.


Mr Speaker: I take it that there are no questions.


Hon. Members: Mmm!




Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kabompo, you may proceed.


Microphone went off.


Mr Speaker: He will be on shortly.




Mr Speaker: It requires a bit of patience to operate. You may proceed.


Mr Lufuma (Kabompo): Mr Speaker, sorry, I was looking at Hon. Mushanga there. He was trying …


Mr Speaker: Just proceed with your question, hon. Member.


Mr Lufuma: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am ready for violence declares …


Mr Speaker: Sorry? I did not get your first word.


Mr Lufuma: I am ready for violence.


Mr Speaker: For violence.


Mr Lufuma: Violence, yes.


Hon. Members: Why?




Mr Speaker: Just a moment.


Hon. Members: Question!


Mr Lufuma: Why are you rattled, …


Mr Speaker: Complete your question.




Mr Lufuma: “I am ready for violence” declares the President of the Republic of Zambia on the occasion of the Ground-Breaking Ceremony in Ndola at Mwansa Kapwepwe International Airport.


Would Her Honour the Vice-President care to explain the intimation of this particular statement by the President, especially in view of the political tension in the country, a climate where divergent views are inimical to the state, police brutality is the order of the day, and rampant violence is sponsored by the Patriotic Front (PF)?


Hon. Government Members: Question!


Mr Lufuma: There is political intolerance which has led to real tension, as opposed to tension perceived by Opposition political parties, and the rule of law and constitutionalism are now alien to the state of governance of this country.


Would Her Honour the Vice-President kindly explain, and correlate this statement with the state of the nation as it exists at the moment?


Mr Ngulube: Seven minutes?




Mr Speaker: Order!


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am surprised at the fact that the hon. Member of Parliament who has been in the House for the past three weeks has not uttered a word until now.




Mr Kampyongo: Sponsored!


The Vice-President: The hon. Member has made a catalogue of issues that are baseless ...


Mr Lubinda: Baseless accusations.


The Vice-President: … and do not reflect the state of affairs in Zambia today.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Ngulube: Shame!


Mr Lubinda: Ngwele!


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we know that His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, was meeting his party officials in Ndola and reference to the word ‘violence’ was, perhaps, said in a different context than what the hon. Member of Parliament is insinuating.


Mr Mwale: Wayimvela?


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


The Vice-President: Sir, I am sure the hon. Member knows very well that the issues he is referring to such as a lack of adherence to the rule of law, a lack of tolerance of political views, a lack of freedom of expression and association by the Opposition do not exist in Zambia. Opposition political parties are allowed to hold meetings, associate, and express themselves, anywhere, in this country.


Mr Kampyongo: Just like he is doing!


Ms Kapata: Hear, hear!


The Vice-President: Sir, the hon. Member of Parliament enjoys immunity inside and outside this honourable House. I do not know where this idea is coming from. Perhaps, being a representative of a party whose members are not in a House, he is carrying a message from the rest of them.


I thank you, Sir.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Musonda (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, Her Honour the Vice-President would agree that our country was blessed with good rainfall, in the 2016-17 season, which resulted in a bumper harvest. Many thanks go to the players in the agriculture sector. However, ...


Mr Ngulube: Ask your question, Sir!


Mr Speaker: Order!


Hon. Member for Kabwe Central, it is not long that I counselled you. I do not think I will adopt this approach continuously. I will have to escalate it.




Hon. Member: Wamona nomba? Wailetelela.


Mr Musonda: Mr Speaker, thank you for that protection.


Sir, the good rains that we had were not without collateral damage to the country in terms of infrastructure. Bridges, for example, were washed away, and roofs blown off from health centres and schools.


Mr Speaker, when will the Government attend to these disasters, through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), especially considering that half of the year is already gone, and the rainy season will start soon? Most of the damaged infrastructure is still in the state it was.


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) does not have a bank of its own.




The Vice-President: It relies, fundamentally, on the resources allocated through the Ministry of Finance. We are all eagerly awaiting the hon. Minister of Finance to bring a Supplementary Budget to this House. Perhaps the DMMU will be able to attend to some of the damaged bridges and blown off roofs from the resources that will be allocated to it.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Chabi (Chipili): Mr Speaker, the three church mother bodies issued a press statement a fortnight ago in which they claimed that they had been denied access to meet the President. I would like to read an excerpt, with your permission, Sir. Page two of the statement reads:


“It is in that spirit that we have for several weeks engaged State House officials and sought an appointment to meet the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. Now that we have not been allowed to succeed along that path, we have decided to issue this statement to let the powers that be and the people of Zambia know our position on what is happening in the nation.”


Sir, Her Honour the Vice-President and the nation at large know that the three church mother bodies helped the Patriotic Front (PF) to form Government prior to the 2011 elections.


Hon. Government Member: Where?


Bearing that in mind, can Her Honour the Vice-President confirm whether it is true that the spiritual leaders, from these three church mother bodies, have been denied access to meet the President, who is also the President of the party they helped to form Government before the 2011 elections?


Hon. Government Members: Question!


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, some of the aspects of the question may be irrelevant, ...


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


The Vice-President: …especially the support to the party during elections.


Mr Speaker, the President of this country has met several religious and church leaders in the past one year or so, including the church mother body members. I do not know when that statement was given but when I met the church mother bodies and other religious leaders, it was explained that, at the time that, appointment was being sought from State House personnel, the President was extremely busy with other visitors. There are other channels through which appointments to State House can be made, including going through the line ministries.


Mr Lubinda: Yes!


The Vice-President: The President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu has said that State House is open to all those who want to see him, including the leaders of churches.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Siwanzi (Nakonde): Mr Speaker, this working Government recently removed 10 per cent export value added tax (VAT) on maize. I want to know if this move will be implemented throughout this marketing season. Can the Vice-President share with the nation what the benefit of this move will be, and how much revenue we are likely to lose.


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, Zambia managed to attain a good record of the maize output during this past farming season. As a matter of fact, we have gone beyond last year’s crop accumulation or harvest. This year, the country has in excess of the strategic reserves of 1.8 million metric tonnes of maize. So, the removal of the 10 per cent levy on the exported maize means that the country has adequate maize grain stocks for food security purposes. Furthermore, the removal of the 10 per cent will help the grain marketing exporters to be competitive.


Sir, hon. Members may be aware that in the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) region, most of the countries that wanted maize from Zambia in the past season have now also realised bumper harvests. It means that Zambia has to compete with other exporters in order to find market for the maize that we have in the country. So, the Government realised that in order to make our maize competitive, we need to remove the 10 per cent tax on our maize. I believe that this will give an opportunity to exporters to export maize to countries such as Kenya, Somalia and Luanda that have a grain deficit. It was a prudent move by the Government to take this action.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Kafwaya (Lunte): Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu is the highest authority in this land. It is, therefore, my expectation and that of the people of Lunte that when His Excellency gives instructions, they must be carried out without any form of inertia. The President has long given an instruction that senior officials in the Government be given performance contracts in order for service delivery to the Zambian people to be improved. However, it has not yet come to our attention that the Secretary to the Cabinet has actually effected this important instruction. What is the Secretary to the Cabinet doing to ensure that performance contracts are now given to senior Government officials?


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker,   performance contracts are extremely important to improve service delivery in the public service. However, as far as I know, all the Permanent Secretaries (PSs) are currently working, and have been given these performance contracts. Perhaps, we need to scale-up the process. The Secretary to the Cabinet will be requested to accelerate the process to cover all the civil servants.


I thank you, Sir.


Amb. Malanji (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, the hallmark of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has been to implement policies that are pro-poor. A poor Zambian tax payer is made to pay US$200 when importing a vehicle into a country. This country has no motor car industry, and it has no restriction of what model of motor vehicles should be imported into Zambia. The Zambian Government has got a very minimal gain from the Zambia Bureau of Standards. When a vehicle is brought into the country without a Japan Export Vehicle Inspection Certificate (JEVIC), the Zambia Bureau of Standard charges 15 per cent of the value of that vehicle. Is the Government considering abolishing JEVIC and the high percent of what is charged on the value of any equipment or motor vehicle that is imported into this country?


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, regarding this particular issue of importation of motor vehicles, I will request the hon. Member to table a question to the Minister of Transport and Communication so that we can get a more comprehensive response to the issue.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, on page 6 of the 2017 Budget address to this House by the hon. Minister of Finance, Hon. Felix Mutati, MP, is a statement that the Government had accessed US$50 million for on-lending to small and medium enterprises (SMEs). It further states that industrialisation would not take place without financing to SMEs as they form the backbone of the economy.


Sir, considering that we are halfway through the Budget cycle, when is the Government, through the Ministry of Finance, going to start disbursing the US$50 million to SMEs so that SMEs in constituencies such as Chimwemwe can start benefiting and, thereby, create the much anticipated one hundred thousand decent jobs earmarked for the year 2017?


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the US$50 million has been received by the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) for onward lending to SMEs throughout the Country. If the hon. Member of Parliament is in business or advocating for his voters, I urge that applications be made to the bank to enable the small scale entrepreneurs’ to get access to this fund. It is important that an empowerment fund of this type is accessed by all Zambians, especially the youth that we hope will create more jobs for other youths once they have been empowered with resources to improve or start their businesses.


Mr Speaker, I thank you.


Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Mr Speaker, Shamilimo and Vumbe Primary Schools in my constituency had their roofs blown off. At the time when we discussed the Budget in this House, it was understood that line ministries would take care of disasters in schools. Apparently, in your answer to a question on the Floor of the House, you indicated that the hon. Minister will come with a supplementary Budget. Where do we go in the event of disasters? Is it to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) or the line ministry? 


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this Government is working as one, whether it is a line ministry, DMMU, any other unit or sector. When funds are available, we assess priority areas where they should be used. I have just explained that as soon as the DMMU sources some funds, it will embark on rehabilitating schools such as Shamilimo Primary, This will be done in conjunction with the Ministry of General Education.


Mr Speaker, I thank you.


Mrs Phiri (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, I know that our hardworking Government is always there for us in times of calamities. Kanyama has experienced many disasters, especially flooding. We thank the Office of the Vice-President for coming to our aid, specifically, in a fire fighting situation. What is the Government doing to bring permanent solutions to the flooding in Kanyama so that when the rainy season comes, we do not have to experience it again?


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, Kanyama has a history of disasters.


Mr Lubinda: Especially floods.


The Vice-President: This is why the Ministry of Local Government has considered including it in the Lusaka Master Plan which is a development plan for the whole of Lusaka. Meanwhile, as we await the master plan to be operationalised, stop gap measures will be undertaken. There are other works planned for Kanyama which the hon. Member of Parliament will be informed about through the Ministry of Local Government.


Mr Speaker, I thank you.


Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the Disaster Management Act, No. 13 of 2010, Section 30 states, and I quote:


“(1)      There is hereby established the National Disaster Relief Trust Fund.


 (2)       The trust fund shall consist of:


(a)        such monies as Parliament may appropriate for the purpose of the trust fund;”


(b)        voluntary contributions to the trust fund from any person or organisation;


(c)        any grants mobilised from any source within or outside Zambia for the purpose of disaster management; and


(d)        interest arising out of any investment of the trust fund.


31.       The Trust Fund shall be vested in the Minister responsible for Finance, and shall be managed and administered by the unit.”


Mr Speaker, would Her Honour the Vice-President be kind enough to inform the nation on the status, and the progress made on the establishment of this Disaster Relief Trust Fund?


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, a great deal of progress has been noted in the establishment of the Disaster Relief Trust Fund. As the Act stipulates, the disaster fund will not only receive money from the treasury, but also from other sources. It takes a while to study the various modes of accessing money for the trust fund outside Government funds. Even within Government funding, we have to look at sources to tap into to realise some funds for this Trust Fund.


Mr Speaker, something is being done, and I believe that we are almost reaching the end of our consultancy work so that the Trust Fund will be able to be part of the 2018 National Budget. It is very important for DMMU to have its own fund so that it can respond to emergencies as they occur.


Mr Speaker, I thank you.


Mr Ng’onga (kaputa): Mr Speaker, in 2015, the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, issued instructions to then hon. Minister of Agriculture that in view of the abundant water resources that the country has, it must be self-sufficient in fish production in three years in order to avoid importation of fish. In this vein, the people of Kaputa, Chimbamilonga and Chienge, who have been blessed with many water bodies, and have been ready to rise to this challenge. I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President the progress and the programmes so that the people of Kaputa can do all they can to actualise the presidential pronouncement.


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, indeed, there is no reason why Zambia cannot be a net exporter of fish and fish products. We are blessed in this country, and are endowed with water bodies that are not found anywhere else in the Southern African Development Community (SADC). So, we should use this resource to our advantage by promoting fish farming. The Government has prioritised aquaculture as a way to go in support of the livelihoods of our people, and improvement of the nutrition for our families. The hon. Member of Parliament for Kaputa may know that the Ministry of Finance has sourced US$54 million for aquaculture and fish farming. This is project will be launched early next week so that all farmers in the country know that there is a substantial amount of money available which they can borrow and invest in fish farming in their areas, including Kaputa. I hope the hon. Member of Parliament will inform his electorates about this fund. The hon. Member’s electorates live on the banks of a lake and those that are on the Luapula River, Mweru, Zambezi River and Kariba dam, including all the water bodies; this is an opportunity for us to go into fish farming.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, Kanchibiya, Mpika and Lavushi Manda are much bigger collectively than some provinces in this country, and our people are asking…


Mr Mwale: Bigger than Belgium.


Dr Malama: Looking at the rainy season which is soon setting, what is the Government doing beyond the 250 kilometres of feeder roads to enable our people put their factors of production to use so that we can make rural areas productive, and enable them to contribute to the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) for our country.


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it was only a few days ago when the hon. Minister of Defence gave a detailed report on the state of rural roads. However, the Government has prioritised poverty reduction, especially rural poverty, and as such it has recognised the need to have access to markets for rural people. That is why there is a focus on developing rural infrastructure. Apart from what the Zambia National Service is doing currently, more funds are being sourced to revamp the road sector to ensure that we develop more rural roads so that our people in rural areas can have access to markets for their produce.


Mr Speaker, Kanchibiya will not be left out in this process. We are ensuring that resettlement areas are also attended to, including access to roads; for most of our resettlement areas are in rural areas, as such, they have been neglected for a long time. Now, the Government is focusing on rural roads to open up rural areas so that our people can become more productive, and be part of the national development agenda.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga central): Good morning, your Honour the Vice-President.




Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mukumbuta: The road infrastructure has been a priority in the Patriotic Front (PF) Government since 2011.


Hon. PF members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mukumbuta: We have seen roads across the country.


Hon. PF members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mukumbuta: Senanga District is one of the oldest districts in the Western Province…


Mr Jamba: Producing nothing.


Mr Mukumbuta: … formerly Barotseland…


Hon. Members: Ah!


Mr Mukumbuta: …which gave birth to other districts such as Shang’ombo, Sioma, and not forgetting the popular Nalolo District, but up to date, not even a single township road has been done in Senanga District.




Mr Mukumbuta: With due respect your honour, why has your Government and you in particular, decided to give a cold shoulder to the good people of Senanga.


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament is singling out Nalolo as a special constituency. I wonder why.




The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, indeed, road infrastructure has been a priority of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government. The PF Government has vowed that no district, constituency or part of Zambia will be left out of the development programme so even Senanga has not been left out. As I speak today, the township roads have been funded…


Mr Mwale: Hear, hear!


The Vice-President: … to the tune of K17 million …


Mr Lubinda: You see.


The Vice-President: … to upgrade township roads. Other roads are being considered by the Ministry of Local Government to see which rural roads can obtain support from the Government.


Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!


The Vice-President: So, the issue that Senanga has been left out is not true.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Lubinda: He must learn to go to his constituency.


Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia under the leadership of his Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, has been very responsive to poor Zambians, especially in rural areas. It has introduced policies such as Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) and Social Cash Transfer which are putting money in people’s pockets.


Mrs Simukoko: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwamba: Recently, there was a pronouncement that the Government will only buy 500,000 metric tonnes of maize throughout the country. Now, there are people, all over the country, who have produced maize, especially in the rural areas, and they will certainly have a problem,  if the Government goes ahead with its decision to buy only that amount of maize. How is the Government going to help the people in the rural areas through a small number of metric tonnes of maize, bearing in mind that even satellite depots have been reduced?


Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, when the Government, through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), buys maize from our farmers, it first mops up all the maize in the rural areas that our people have produced, and this will also be done this year. However, having produced a bumper harvest this year may have its own challenges in that even the rural farmers might have produced more than the normal amount of grain that they usually produce. Therefore, this is an opportunity for grain traders to go into rural areas provided they give our farmers attractive prices for their maize. This will help the farmers to have a market for their maize. We do not want to see our farmers stuck with their maize for lack of market. The Government will ensure that FRA purchases the maize in rural areas, especially in the remotest areas of the country.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Speaker: I will allow the hon. Member for Kapiri Mposhi. I am told, he is struggling to operate the new facility. He needs to be oriented.


Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!


Mr Kakubo (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, in the Seventh National Development Plan (SNDP) that was recently launched by the President, the Government plans to spend about US$1.3 billion on the revitalisation of the Tanzania Zambia Railway (TAZARA) Line. The current situation is that the workers at TAZARA have not been paid for several months, July being the third month. What is the Government’s position on the welfare of these workers?


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the revitalisation of the TAZARA will also address the plight of the workers, especially retirees who worked for the company. The hon. Minister responsible for transport will be asked to deal with this matter, especially the backlog of salaries for the workers at TAZARA so that we do not disadvantage our people who are part of the TAZARA Management.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): Mr Speaker, the prices of most essential commodities have gone up. Considering that fact, I would like to find out from Her Honour the Vice-President if the Government has any plan to increase the minimum wage?


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the increase in minimum wage does not just happen suddenly. It takes a great deal of time to negotiate with various stakeholders so that an agreed position is taken. Then, the Government will take the necessary action to implement the necessary minimum wage in view of the rise in essential commodities.


I thank you, Sir.


Ms Subulwa (Sioma): Mr Speaker, since the Government has shown political will in empowering women through various empowerment schemes, when is it going to spread the Presidential Marketeers Empowerment Scheme to the Western Province, and how many people are earmarked to benefit?


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Presidential Marketeers Empowerment Scheme is not actually for women only. It is for marketeers including men in the markets. This is a personal initiative by His Excellency the President, and the money that was given to the initial beneficiaries is meant to be a revolving fund so that after it is used, the profit is collected and given to the other applicants. So, we are still waiting for that process to cover most parts of the country, including markets in the Western Province.


I thank you, Sir








The Minister of Justice (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to render a ministerial statement on the long awaited outcome of the nationwide consultative process on Zambia’s membership to the International Criminal Court (ICC).


Sir, the 28th Summit of the Assembly of the Heads of State and Government of the African Union (AU) in January, 2017, resolved on a non-binding recommendation that there must be a mass withdrawal of African countries from the ICC, citing partiality of the court as one of the reasons. Zambia’s President, His Excellency Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, decided not to commit Zambia to any position, choosing instead that he shall consult Zambians before doing so.


Mr Speaker, lest we forget, let me remind ourselves that at that material time, some of our fellow citizens made wild allegations that the President and his Government had a predetermined agendum on the matter. Some of them alleged that the President had resolved to have Zambia out of the ICC because he feared being indicted on a case that the United Party for National Development (UPND) had allegedly submitted to the ICC and International Court of Justice. Surprisingly, others on the other hand, alleged that the President and his Government had resolved that Zambia should remain in the ICC because he wanted the UPND to be indicted on the basis of a matter that had been brought before the ICC by a local law firm.


Sir, on 22nd March, 2017, I informed the nation, through this House, of the decision of the Head of State and that of his Cabinet that the Government will consult the people of Zambia on this very important issue. Through this honourable House, I intimated that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was desirous of engaging all citizens in an open, frank and transparent dialogue on all issues to garner the collective wisdom of this great country. This is in line with the tone set by His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, that he wishes to govern based on broad consultation, consensus and dialogue; ensuring that no-one is left behind. It is in this context that His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, did not take a position on the matter at the AU Summit in January.


Mr Speaker, today, I am glad to report that the consultative process was successfully commenced on 27th March, 2017, and concluded on 20th April, 2017. The consultative process was conducted through public hearings where members of the public were invited to make oral and written submissions on the matter.


Sir, public hearings were conducted in thirty districts, countrywide, namely: Kabwe, Mumbwa and Serenje in the Central Province; Chipata, Lundazi and Petauke in the Eastern Province; Ndola, Mufulira and Mpongwe on the Copperbelt Province; Mansa, Samfya and Kawambwa in the Luapula province; Chirundu, Chilanga and Chongwe in the Lusaka Province; Chinsali, Mpika and Nakonde in the Muchinga Province; Kasama, Luwingu and Mbala in the Northern Province; Solwezi, Mwinilunga and Zambezi in the North-Western Province; Choma, Livingstone and Monze in the Southern Province; and Mongu, Kalabo and Sesheke in the Western Province. In addition to the thirty districts, there was a sitting for Lusaka District where all civil society organisations, individuals, political parties and private organisations were invited to make their submissions.


Mr Speaker, members of the public in districts where no public sittings were held were given an opportunity to make written submissions to the Ministry of Justice, through the offices of district commissioners in their respective districts. The process of consultation was duly conducted in an open, frank and transparent environment. A report on the consultations has since been prepared, and is now ready for dissemination to the public. With your permission, Sir, I shall lay on the Table of this House a report for those who would like to access it. In addition, officers in the Ministry of Justice are working in liaison with officers at the National Assembly for the report to be uploaded on the Parliament Website.


Mr Speaker, allow me to state that the response from our citizens was quite overwhelming. Our call, through this honourable House for citizens of this great nation, to respond to a civic duty was heard. The Government’s appeal for all citizens to turn up at provincial headquarters and district commissioners’ offices to make their submissions was clearly heard.


Sir, I am happy to report to this honourable House that a total of 3,489 submissions were received. These comprise submissions from individuals, civic society organisations and other institutions. I have a table, here, indicating the representation from provinces. However, I shall save the House the trouble of going through this list because it is provided in the report.


Mr Speaker, allow me to state that the Government indicated that the consultative process would inform Cabinet on the decision of whether or not to withdraw Zambia from the ICC. I wish to report to this honourable House that the people of Zambia spoke unequivocally through this consultative process. The result of the consultative process was well covered by the media, and is already a matter of public knowledge.


Sir, the overwhelming majority of Zambians value Zambia’s membership to the ICC.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Lubinda: Sir, notwithstanding, it is, therefore my rare duty and privilege to officially announce that Zambia shall continue to uphold her membership in the ICC.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Lubinda: This is the position that Zambia shall present to the AU when the time for making these submissions is due.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Lubinda: As some may already be aware, the 29th Summit of Heads of State and Government is due on 3rd to 4th July in Addis Ababa. Information that we have received from the AU Commission is that the discussion on the ICC membership and the Africa Peer Review Mechanism (APRM) shall not be agenda items for this Summit, but for a later Summit to be arranged. However, in keeping with the Government’s commitment to inform the nation about the conclusion of this process, I was duty-bound to announce accordingly.


Allow me to further state that this consultative process also allowed citizens to gain valuable knowledge about the existence of the ICC and the issues which can or cannot be referred to it. It has now become abundantly clear that matters of election results are not admissible by the ICC.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Lubinda: It is my sincere hope that Zambians will continue to be engaged and consulted on a number of issues to ensure not only that citizens are engaged but also enabled to use information as a valuable avenue for civic education to enhance our young but flourishing democracy.


Sir, from the total submissions received, 91.43 per cent of the petitioners were totally against Zambia’s withdrawal of its membership. Among the petitioners who indicated that Zambia should not withdraw from the ICC, the highest percentage of 28 indicated that the ICC was important because it acted as a deterrent for leaders who oppress fellow human beings. Some of the petitioners intimated that there was no real reason or compelling problem to justify Zambia’s withdrawal from the ICC.


On the whole, some people were generally of the view that Zambia should not be influenced by other nations advocating for withdrawal, and that Zambia should exercise her sovereign right to decide her membership without being influenced. The report reflects the voice of the Zambian people on what position the country should take regarding this matter. It is abundantly clear, that the people of Zambia firmly decided that Zambia should retain her membership.


As we are all aware, the ICC is a court of last resort, and it supplements national criminal systems where it proves impossible or impracticable to resolve serious and heinous crimes at national level. The importance of the ICC, therefore, cannot be over-emphasised. In this regard, Zambia will work towards strengthening her national judicial system in order to effectively fulfill her mandate to co-operate with the ICC and prosecute international crimes in order to effectively contribute to the global fight against impunity for such crimes.


Sir, allow me now to thank our dedicated members of staff in the Ministry of Justice who worked tirelessly to ensure that this important national exercise is a resounding success. Allow me to state that the Zambian citizens were called to make their voices heard in this important national consultative process. Citizens were urged to get involved and engaged. I wish to report that the call was heard and responded to. It is the Government’s hope that citizens shall always seize such opportunities to get involved in governance matters of this nature.


I thank you, Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement given by the hon. Minister of Justice. 


Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, now that Zambians have spoken, is it an indication that this is a timely warning for some of us who are in leadership to avoid abusing of our offices because both the local and the international laws might catch up with us?


Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that important question.


Sir, I want to say that indeed, it is a clarion call, not only to those in leadership, but every citizen that committing any heinous crimes in Zambia shall be watched and punished, by first of all, using the local justice system. If the local justice system fails, for whatever reason, the people of Zambia shall demand for the arm of the International Law, through the International Criminal Court, to catch up with such culprits. Indeed, I would like to advise my dear brother that the next time we have an opportunity of engaging with people, let us do it with the required decorum and respect for human rights so that we avoid the occurrence of situations, where people’s houses are burnt, purely on pursuit of political office.


 I thank you, Sir.


 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister where the highest and the lowest percentage of turnover of the submissions in the districts that were chosen in each province.


 Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I indicated that I have a table of the submissions; province by province, but I want to save the trouble of the House listening to such a long list because it is provided in the report. However, since my hon. Colleague has asked, allow me to indicate the two figures that he has requested for.


Sir, actually, the highest submissions of 14.53 per cent of the petitioners came from Central Province, where the hon. Member belongs. I am afraid to state that the lowest submissions of only 6.1 per cent of the people, who responded, came from the Western Province, where the hon. Member for Senanga Central comes from.




Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, let me seize this opportunity to encourage hon. Members, and state that we are the ones who are entrusted with the responsibility to connect with the people. Therefore, when there are such national events or programmes, which are carried out, it is in the interest of the nation that we get involved in campaigning for our people to take part.


Sir, we wanted as many people as possible to come and air their views. It should have been better to see that at least Senanga had also sent at least 500 people to submit. I am sure that the next consultation that we will have, the Western Province, through my hon. Minister, will record higher participation than it did this time.


I thank you, Sir


Mr Lufuma (Kabompo):  Mr Speaker, I really wonder how many Zambians went to submit in terms of the absolute figures. Nevertheless, it was a known fact that even before the Ministry of Justice undertook this assignment, the view of the majority of Zambians was that we should remain in the International Criminal Court (ICC) because, after all, it protected the human rights of the citizens. So, really, it was a question that should have been answered in the affirmative, and it turned to be that way.


Sir, given the fact that the answer was known, I suppose it must have been known to the hon. Minister, why did the Government go ahead and spend so much money on an exercise whose answer was already known? This money could have been spent on uplifting the living standards of the people in terms of facilities in the health sector, education and roads. Does the hon. Minister think that this money could have been spent better?


 Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, that was a multi-dimensional question, and I will attempt to answer all the different aspects.


Firstly, I will start with the issue whether this high amount of money was well spent and how much was it.




Mr Lubinda: I wonder whether my hon. Colleague expect an answer from me, because he said it was a colossal amount of money, and yet, he is asking me how much it was.




Mr Lubinda: Sir, secondly, my hon. Colleague again said that it was a known fact that even before the ministry started the process, the Zambian people wanted Zambia to remain in the ICC.



Sir, hypocrisy is alien to good governance, and we should not be hypocritical over matters of such important nature. I say this because the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabompo is aware of the fact that the groupings to which he belongs have some members who actually alleged that the President of the Republic of Zambia wanted Zambia to pull out of the ICC because a law firm in Zambia had reported his political party to the ICC for the heinous crimes committed in the southern part of this country.


Sir, he is also aware that during that time, there was a great deal of public debate on the matter. There were arguments for and against. This Government did not do this with any malice. On behalf of Government, I presented a ministerial statement, and the record will show that all my hon. Colleagues, hon. Members for the United Party for National Development (UPND), were in the House and did not raise any objection at that stage. Had they been smarter to this House, and as the representative of the people, they would have told me whether to go ahead or not, but instead, I received an overwhelming support from everybody in this House.


Sir, by the nature of democracy, I received their support too. Therefore, to hear the hon. Member of Parliament say that the Government should not have done this today is not right. Where was he when I presented the statement in March, this year? Why was he mute? We are a listening Government. Had they presented their views as eloquently as they try to do outside this House, I know, I would have listened, but they missed the opportunity. I listened to the voices that raised issues on this, and we proceeded. Therefore, everything else is water under the bridge.


Sir, let me also indicate that democracy is expensive. If they think that we shall, at any one time, make decisions of such important nature without consulting the people, they are wrong. We will continue to consult. This is the reason that, earlier this morning, her Honour, the Vice-President indicated even State House is open for advice and consultation. So, go there and consult, and present your ideas and suggestions. Do not sit back, and after a decision is made then, you come and say that ‘I am wiser than everybody else, you should have listened to my silence.’ Sorry, silence speaks volumes. We listened to their silence, and as far as I am concerned, their silence was consent.


 I thank you, Sir.


 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!       


Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, I know that the Government took a very wise decision to consult all the ten provinces as to whether we should remain part of the International Criminal Court (ICC) or pull out. Will this kind of consultation continue on almost all the important decisions the Government will make in future?


Mr Lubinda: Sir, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kabwe Central for that question.


Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!




Mr Lubinda: Sir, without bringing the House into this matter, I would like to mention that you probably recall that early in this Session, there was an assertion made that the Ruling Patriotic Front (PF) was intending to use this Session to bring amendments to the Constitution. I made it very clear that for as long as this country remains under the tutelage and leadership of President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, such a thing would not happen. He would not hoodwink Zambians. He would not take advantage of the absence of such a large number of opposition hon. Members of Parliament to sneak in amendments to such an important law. He wants to consult and allow every citizen to participate in such governance issues.


Mr Speaker, there is a law that the Ministry of Justice is currently working on, and I have pleaded with Her Honour the Vice-President that we should go out and consult before we even bring that piece of legislation here because of its nature and importance. The Public Order Act is another such issue. The House may recall that my colleague, a year or two ago, stood here and appealed to citizens to present submissions on how to improve that law. I did that again this year.


Sir, for Hon. Ngulube’s information, this shows that his Government intends to consult its citizens on all important matters such as this because we know that ours is just borrowed authority. The ultimate authority that we use is vested in the people, and therefore, at every turn we shall consult them. This is the reason why even to hold leadership in our political party, we go to the people, who are the owners of the party. We do not assume leadership in perpetuity without consulting the people. That is alien to our kind of leadership.


I thank you, Sir.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Kopulande (Chembe): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity given to me to comment on this very important subject that has international ramifications, and has a great deal to do with the international image of our country.


Mr Ngulube: Hear, hear!


Mr Kopulande: Mr Speaker, this decision by the people of Zambia to stay in the International Criminal Court (ICC) places another level in the checks and balance system of our democratic governance arrangements. This means that any abuse of Executive authority or otherwise, and any abuse of power, in any manner, to violate the fundamental human rights of the people of Zambia shall be punishable, not only under Zambian law, but under international law as well. Therefore, this places a higher level of accountability on those in power and those that aspire to get into power some day.


Mr Speaker, the decision of the Zambian people has come out, to the tune of 91.2 per cent of those who made submissions choosing to stay in the ICC. Does this decision reduce or dismantle the misguided arguments we have heard recently that Zambia under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government and leadership of President Edgar Chagwa Lungu has become a dictatorship?


Mr Lubinda: Sir, homes that are visited are considered to be cordial. People do not visit a home if it is associated with little or no respect and decorum for its members. No one visits a home that has risen against itself. In the recent past, we have seen the number of international guests that have come to Zambia. They would not come to Zambia if they thought that Zambia has lost its standing as a country that respects human rights and tenets of good governance.


So, this is just an icing on what is already known. The Zambian people themselves have said that they do not want any slippage on their record as being a country that respects human rights, and governs itself as a flourishing democracy.


Over and above that, Sir, I would like to inform the nation through this House that the International Criminal Court (ICC) has been following the consultation process in Zambia. Even before I made this announcement, state parties of the ICC had asked whether Zambia can consider being the first country in Central and Southern Africa to host a state parties’ conference on the ICC. They would not do that if they thought that Zambia does not have the right credentials.


Mr Mwale: Mwaona manje.


Mr Lubinda: So even the ICC itself considers Zambia to be a shining example of a country that upholds human rights.


I thank you, Sir.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mrs Fundanga (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister for the decision that was made of being consultative on this matter. I am equally happy about the result. I do not want to sound like I am anti-institutionalised initiatives, but I would like to find out what measures have been employed to make sure that our sovereignty is not compromised. Although we live in the global village, we have seen that some areas of the globe are not being searched, vis-à-vis the issues of governance.


Sir, I would just like to say that I am part of the Zambian branch of the United Nations Global Compact (UNGC). I know that despite agreeing that they remain with the Hague, as the International Criminal Court (ICC) is popularly known, some African countries have actually started coming up with initiatives or ways and means of trying to make sure that this is not abused. I know that some of these institutions, especially this very one, have become animal farms.


Mr Lubinda: Sir, I do not know that the ICC has become an animal farm.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Lubinda: However, let me also state that the Rome Statute assented to by the majority of countries in the world compels every country to develop its own local judicial criminal justice system. A country does not lose its sovereignty by becoming a member of the Rome Statute because no country is taken before the International Criminal Court, for as long as it is not harbouring citizens who commit heinous crimes against humanity. The International Criminal Court (ICC) only gets interested when they have reports of crimes against humanity being perpetuated in a sovereign state without the state taking any action, but this is also a provision in the United Nations Charter itself. So, whether you are member state of the ICC or not, if you are harbouring criminals, those criminals will have to be brought to justice.


Sir, I am aware of the fact that there are some countries that have come up with initiatives to reform the ICC, and that is not strange because even the oldest body of nations, the United Nations (UN) is now being discussed on reform. Even that body itself, requires to be reformed. Therefore, there is nothing strange about other countries saying that we should reform the Rome Statute and the ICC. Indeed, as Zambia, we would also like to see that there is no member of the United Nations Security Council who does not sit on the ICC because the United Nations Security Council has the power to bring a state before the ICC. For them to have that power, they too, must subject their states to the ICC. I want to assure the honourable colleague that Zambia has not been left out of that discussion. We are active in that discussion, and I am looking forward to the day when Zambia shall be the first state in Central and Southern Africa to host the State Parties Conference on the ICC so that those matters can be discussed in this country, the beacon of hope, the fountain of peace, in Southern Africa, our dear country.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mutale (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, now that the prophets of doom have been shamed, …


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mutale: I know that from inception, the United Party for National Development (UPND) was against this exercise. Did the hon. Minister ever take time to understand why the turn out for this exercise in the Western Province was low?


Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I apologise to my hon. colleague and to the House at large that I did not take time to try and analyse the reason why the turn out across the country was the way it was. So, I would not like to apportion blame to anybody. However, because my colleague mentioned the United Party for National Development (UPND), I want to say to him that I look forward to them participating in the next processes. We are coming up soon with consultation on a very important piece of legislation, and I hope that I can come to this House and say that the UPND and all other Opposition political parties actively took part, because we are here to govern together.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Kalobo (Wusakile): Mr Speaker, what is the opportunity cost of Zambia remaining in the International Criminal Court (ICC)?


Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the opportunity cost of remaining in the International Criminal Court (ICC), is us, one day waking up to find that we have made a big blunder, seeing the emergence of people who are hungry for other people’s blood, and maiming, destroying their property, and not being able to be reached by the local criminal system. Then, we will realise how opportune it is now to do what we are doing. This is to make sure that no citizen or foreigner can come and use the geographical territory of the country called Zambia for conducting any heinous crimes. So, it is time well spent, and money well invested.


I thank you, Sir.


Mr Kakubo (Kapiri Mponshi): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister categorically state how much money was well spent on this exercise?


Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I have to apologise to you and to my colleagues that I, unfortunately, did not anticipate that question so I did not bring the actual figure. However, K2 million was allocated to the process, and I did not hear my officers ask for any supplementary allocation. So, the topmost figure spent was K2 million, but they may have made savings. As for the change, I can come back later to inform the House about it.


I thank you, Sir.




The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, I wish to submit a statement on the Floor of the House pertaining to financial management in local authorities and utilisation of the Local Government Equalisation Fund.


Sir, on the first matter concerning financial management in councils, I wish to inform the House that there has been a general outcry from members of the public and, indeed, hon. Members of this House regarding the management of public funds by most councils or local authorities in the country. The investigations conducted by ministry have revealed that some of the transactions attributed to financial mismanagement are failure to comply with the ministerial guidelines on the issuance of fuel to mayors and council chairpersons. Financial mismanagement has also been attributed to solicited, unjustified and rampant local and foreign travel by most council officials. Further, the ministry has also observed that most principal officers have a tendency of leaving their stations without authority. As a result of this imprudent use of public resources by councils, service provision has been adversely affected to the dismay of Government and the people at the local level.


Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister of Local Government, I cannot sit and watch this continued mismanagement of public resources at the expense of service delivery by our councils. To this effect, I wish to inform the House that my ministry has taken the following measures to redress the current situation of imprudent use of public funds in councils across the country:

  1. all principal officers shall seek permission in writing from the Permanent Secretary (PS) in the Ministry of Local Government, through the provincial local government officers in their respective provinces before leaving the station. The written permission has to be under the flying seal of the mayor or council chairperson before submission to the provincial local government officer. Similarly, principal officers shall seek written clearance from the provincial local government officers in their respective provinces for any council officer leaving the station;


  1. with immediate effect, all principal officers and council officers will be required to attach a written permission to leave their station to support the payments for travelling out of their stations, failure to which the ministry will have no option but direct that disciplinary proceedings be commenced against such erring officers;


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Speaker: Order!


Business was suspended from 1040 hours until 1100 hours.




The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale): Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was highlighting the measures that my ministry has put in place to ensure that we promote prudent use of public resources in our councils, and I was talking about point (b) which says:


With immediate effect, all principal officers and council officers will be required to attach written permission to leave their stations to support their payment for travelling out of their stations.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwale: Failure to which the ministry will have no option but to direct that disciplinary proceedings be commenced against such erring officers.


  1. in addition, all councils are advised to maximise the utilisation of the office of the Provincial Local Government Officer in their respective provinces established under Section 118 of the Local Government Act, Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia. Only issues which cannot be resolved at the district and provincial levels including policy issues should be referred to the ministry in order to enhance efficiency and effectiveness;


  1. Mayors and council chairpersons will only be given fuel when officiating at ceremonial functions. As for their daily operations, mayors and council chairpersons will be required to use the 30 per cent fuel allowance paid to them as stipulated in their terms of conditions; and


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwale: Further,


(e)                 all applications for authority to travel abroad from the local authorities will be approved by the Minister of Local Government …


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwale: ...before submitting to the Secretary to the Cabinet for authorisation in order to curb indiscriminate travel abroad by all council officers in the councils. Further, councils will be required to submit all applications to travel abroad fourteen days before the date of travel.


Madam Speaker, furthermore, with regard to the Local Government Equalisation Fund, I wish to inform the House that Government has committed to disburse a total of K887,878,785 to councils during the 2017 Budget. In accordance with the Local Government (Amendment) Act, No. 12 of 2014 which establishes Local Government Equalisation Fund, 20 per cent of the Local Government Equalisation Fund shall be used on capital projects of the council, while the remaining eighty per cent is support to recurrent activities that must include budgeted expenditure on service provision and administrative expenses as stipulated under Section 45A (5) of the Local Government (Amendment) Act.


Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, allow me to share with the House the schedule of disbursement to councils for the month of May 2017 which I have attached to this statement. However, I have also requested the Clerk’s office to put this schedule in the Members’ pigeon holes, and I believe that all of them have access to it. This is a reflection of the allocation of Local Government Equalisation Fund to each district from January to December 2017.


However, Mr speaker, I wish to inform the House that there have also been concerns from Members of Parliament and members of the public that some local authorities are using the whole amount of Local Government Equalisation Fund on personal emoluments, operations, travels both locally and abroad, contrary to the Local Government (Amendment) Act No. 12 of 2014 which requires that 20 per cent of the Local Government Equalisation Fund be used on capital projects.


Madam Speaker, to this effect, the ministry has put in place the following measure to curb financial mismanagement in order to ensure prudent use of the Local Government Equalisation Fund:


Firstly, disbursement of the Local Government Equalisation Fund and any grant to all councils shall be subject to production with submission of returns of previous the month’s allocation during the third week of the following month. Councils which will fail to comply shall not be considered for funding until they submit their returns.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwale: Secondly, the ministry has sent a team of internal auditors to councils across the country to check on how councils are managing and using the Local Government Equalisation Fund with a view to addressing the weaknesses which would be revealed in order to enhance compliance and accountability.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, regarding the measures on the locally generated revenue, I wish to state that the measures above are specifically to deal with the Local Government Equalisation Fund. However, as a ministry we are also concerned with how the local authorities are accounting even for their locally generated revenue. To this end, we are consulting the office of the Auditor-General to help us strengthen the financial systems in our local authorities to promote efficiency and effectiveness to ensure that there is prudent use of these financial resources.


Madam, with these measures put in place by the ministry, it is envisaged that sanity and financial prudence would be restored in the councils to ascertain efficiency and effective provision of services at local level. My ministry will continue monitoring and supervising councils to ensure that prudent use of public funds to the expectation of the general public and Government is done. Anyone found wanting will be dealt with accordingly.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Ngulube: Ema minister aya!


Madam Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the Ministerial Statement given by the hon. Minister of Local Government.


Mr Ngulube (Kabwe Central): Madam Speaker, if I have understood the hon. Minister very well, he said that would no longer be seeing mayors, council chairpersons and all these other senior officials travelling all the country with their flags without approval from his office. Is that correct?


Ms Katuta: Ee question iyo!


Mr Ngulube: Ni question yandi!


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, I wish to agree that that is the correct position. They have to travel only when it is necessary .


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Daka (Msanzala): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how much money from the Local Government Equalisation Fund he is sending to the councils on average, vis-a-vis administration and projects that require people’s attention in constituencies.


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, as I said in the Statement, we have distributed a schedule that shows how much we are giving to councils monthly throughout the country.


For example, Petauke receives K735,000 every month. 20 per cent of this money is meant for capital projects, but we do not see this happen.




Mr Mwale: Lusaka is another example. Lusaka City receives K3.9 million every month.


Hon. Government Members: Aah!


Hon. Government Member: Chembe?


Mr Mwale: We have distributed this information in hon. Members’ pigeon holes so that they can check how much their councils get. We want hon. Members to help us monitor that 20 per cent of that fund is spent on capital projects.


I thank you, Sir.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Ms Miti (Vubwi): Madam Speaker, the performance of some of the councils is affected by the distance some council staff have to cover to report for work everyday. They report late and knock off early. The excuse they give is that new districts like Vubwi do not have accommodation. What is the ministry doing to ensure that these officers live closer to their work places?


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, indeed, this has been a big issue in the newly created districts. We have an issue in Luano where officers have refused to stay in Luano, and still reside in old Mkushi. They even passed a resolution in the council to maintain that status. However, the ministry has overruled that resolution, and enforced a rule that all officers must relocate to the newly created districts so that they endure with everyone else.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, I know that this is also happening in Vubwi. In fact, since Vubwi was created as a district, all the top council officials, even some drivers, had been living in Chipata until two or three months ago when we intervened. They used to utilise council vehicles and fuel to move from Chipata to Vubwi. They would knock off at two o’clock in the afternoon so that they get back to their homes in time. The ministry has intervened to make sure that such behaviour changes.


Madam Speaker, we are working closely with the Ministry of Housing and Infrastructure Development to make sure that the housing units that were allocated to these newly created districts are completed so that people will no longer have to look elsewhere for accommodation.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Mukumbuta (Senanga Central): Madam Speaker, my heart bleeds to hear of a council in this country which spent about K42,000 to service one vehicle.


Madam Speaker, my question is on the role of mayors and council chairpersons. I understand that these are fulltime workers. Where are they getting time to go around their districts and constituencies, campaigning for the 2021 elections in order to uproot the hon. Members of Parliament who are seated here?




Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will note that there is a great amount of personal interest. I hope he will clarify the position that seems to be expressed by the hon. Member through this question.


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, it is unacceptable for council chairpersons and mayors to begin to politick and vie for political positions for 2021. They are in these offices as civic leaders, and we expect them to perform as such.


Madam Speaker, we suspect that some of them use council fuel and vehicles to campaign because they already see themselves as potential parliamentary candidates. We will keep a close watch on what is happening. We will also ensure that Provincial Ministers, who are their immediate supervisors in the provinces, make sure that they use resources meant for delivering services in the councils for that purpose, and not for campaigning. All those that want to politick will be suspended.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Chisopa (Mkushi South): Madam Speaker, the issue of the Local Government Equalisation Fund is a serious one. The hon. Minister may remember that I once complained on the Floor of this House that Local Government Equalisation Fund in Luano District has not been used to finance a single capital project, not even a toilet. The ministry has implemented a measure that requires councils to produce reports before more money can be disbursed. When is the measure effective? Is it effective this month or is there need for investigation into previous reports so that we know what the Local Government Equalisation Fund has been used for in our districts?


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, we demand that they begin to account for the previous month at the beginning of the following month. As for the other months, I mentioned in the statement that we are sending the Office of the Auditor General to help us investigate how much councils were spending on capital projects. We want to ensure that things are done well so that we go forward.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Madam Speaker, it seems councils are more interested in talking about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) than they are about talking about the Local Government Equalisation Fund. Do you think this is as a result of hon. Members of Parliament not being members of the council? Do we need a Bill to be brought to this House so that we are made members of these councils so that we can monitor what is happening to the equalisation fund?


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, our position is known. We have discussed this matter in this House before. I have stated that the ministry has no objections. In fact, it is not up to us to decide. We have no objections to having hon. Members of Parliament back in the councils. In fact, there was a great deal of value derived from having hon. Members of Parliament in the councils. However, this is a constitutional matter. It is the Constitution that took us out of the councils, and it is the Constitution that can put us back in there.


Madam Speaker, we made submissions to the Ministry of Justice on various matters that require constitutional changes, including this issue. The Ministry of Justice would be in a better place to tell us what happens next.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Chali (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that the money is not supposed to be used on personal emoluments. Are we on schedule in terms of disbursing these funds to the councils? If so, what happens to the retirement packages since some councils have been using part of this money for retirement packages?


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, I did not say that this money cannot be used on emoluments.  I said that 80 per cent of this money can be used on recurrent activities and emoluments. The 20 per cent of this money is strictly for capital projects, and there should be no compromise on that because this is enshrined in the Local Government Act.


Madam Speaker, it is true that they have been using part of the 80 per cent to clear the huge debts that most of the councils have for retirees. Whatever happens, councils must be able to think outside the box. I have said it in this House that councils should be able to raise enough revenue to fund their activities. This money is a subsidy from the Government. Councils should have activities that must be able to finance their budgets. The role of the Government is to supplement their efforts. We have given them money with a condition that a certain percentage should be channelled towards capital projects, and the rest can assist them to sort out other issues. We want to ease their burden. Even though they take part of that money to pay the retirees, they must have other avenues of raising some more money so that they have no complaints at all.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that offences done by principal officers will result in councils not receiving any support from the Government. Why would the ministry not impose disciplinary action against the offending principal officers themselves than causing the whole system to suffer?


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, the overall bosses in a council are the Mayors or the Council Chairpersons. Even though we have controlling officers such as the Town Clerk or the Council Secretary, I think that the entire council must work as one entity. So, we want everyone in the council to take full responsibility, and be able to use the money prudently. If we begin to isolate them, it will be very difficult for us to be able to handle these matters. We want to impose sanctions on the entire council so that all the people responsible can begin to work together to ensure that these funds are well spent.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Mecha (Chifunabuli): Madam Speaker, the attitude of council workers, generally, in the whole country is very bad as can be seen from the way they manage public resources. Are there any plans to implement recurrent trainings for transformation of staff attitude?


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, it is true that there is need for us to enhance human resource capacities in most of these councils. Let me announce that we are so grateful to the Federal Republic of Germany that has given us 8 million euros that we are spending on constructing a training centre. This training centre already existed in Chalimbana, and we are modernising it. Currently, we are working on the curriculum that will deal with politicians, councilors and mayors. We are also working on the one that will deal with members of staff so that they can go through some very effective orientation and training in all issues of good governance in the Local Government systems.  We think that that will be able to help us deal with this problem.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Phiri (Mkaika): Madam Speaker, in Katete, we have tried several times to engage the local authority to account for the said 20 per cent but nothing has been done. The local authority keeps on saying that this money is not enough even for salaries of the workers. Now, is this 20 per cent going to be enough to cater for capital projects?


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, we will have to make this idea work. We have put these rules, and they need to be followed. I think the problem is that we were so lenient on the councils such that they were heavily relying on this fund. They could not even think outside the box, and create certain levies in order to raise funds. They could not even come up with ways and means of raising their own resources. Their interests were just to receive and use the money. Currently, we have enforced rules, and we will ensure that the 20 per cent goes towards capital projects. If the councils find themselves failing to pay salaries, they will be forced to begin to work towards revenue generation. This move will actually enable them to work hard. 


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Ms Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, in Chienge, the Council Chairperson feels is in charge of the equalisation fund and the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I hear they have already had a meeting, although I do not know how they came up with that committee, on how this CDF can be utilised. The hon. Minister mentioned that hon. Members of Parliament must assist in monitoring how the councils are using the 20 per cent of the utilisation fund. Now, what is the role of Members of Parliament in this regard? I am asking this question because I have had many questions from the citizenry of Chienge.


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, now that hon. Members of Parliament are not in the council, they cannot provide direct monitoring of the funds. It is, indeed, important to know the role of the hon. Members of the Parliament. Nobody stops hon. Members of Parliament from engaging controlling officers such as Town Clerks and Council Secretaries to give them schedules on how this 20 per cent is spent.  If hon. Members have difficulties in co-operating with some members of staff, they can inform us at the ministry, and we will be able to deal with such situations.


Madam Speaker, Hon. Members of Parliament are there to provide checks and balances, even in the utilisation of the equalisation fund which comes from the Ministry of Finance. The hon. Members of Parliament have every right to obtain the information that they want from the councils. If hon. Members of Parliament think they are not able to, for various reasons, they are at liberty to ask questions in this House, which will compel us to provide them with the information that they want. They should be able to ask questions in this House with regards to how much of the 20 per cent of the equalisation fund was used on capital projects, and we will be able to come and account for that. That is the role that hon. Members of Parliament can play at the moment.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Mutaba (Mwandi): Madam Speaker, my question has already been taken by the hon. Member for Chienge.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Mutale (Chitambo):  Madam Speaker, we seem to have a challenge in working with our colleagues in the councils, especially the Council Chairpersons. The Council Chairpersons only believe in instructions that come from the hon. Ministers and Permanent Secretaries (PSs).


Mr Jamba: On a point of order, Madam.


Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.


Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Sioma in order to come to this House with a Hijab ...




Mr Jamba: Does it conform to the decorum of this House? I need your serious ruling.




Madam Deputy Speaker: My ruling is that as far as the Chair is concerned, the dress by the hon. Member for Sioma is not inappropriate.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!




Madam Deputy Speaker: It is not inappropriate for this House and, therefore, she is in order.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Madam Deputy Speaker: However, if the hon. Member for Mwembeshi wishes to inquire more about why she is dressed in such a manner, he can do so because he is seated just next to her.




Madam Deputy Speaker:  Can the hon. Member for Chitambo continue.


Mr Mutale: Waona manje?




Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, now that it is clear that hon. Members of Parliament can question councils on the utilisation of the Equalisation Fund, could the hon. Minister do us a favour of writing them. Is it possible that he can write them a circular indicating that hon. Members of Parliament can question them on the utilisation of the Equalisation Fund?


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, we have no issues at all with us instructing them to oblige each time that hon. Members of Parliament or indeed any other stakeholder in the district go to find out about the use of the Equalisation Fund. We will issue a circular, and send a copy to hon. Members of Parliament.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Ema minister aya!


Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Madam Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, the pronouncements that he has made today are far reaching. Now, making pronouncements is one thing, and effectively supervising these officers, and ensuring they account is another. What will the councils put in place to ensure that our local council administrators abide by these wonderful instructions that have been given today?


Mr Mwale: Madam Speaker, I stated that those who fail to oblige or comply will be sanctioned. In fact, the practice has already started. It is very alarming that just last week, I had about eleven or twelve requests to travel abroad, but rejected some of them and saved thousands of United States Dollars. So, this is what we are already doing and, in fact, instructions have already been sent to all councils for them to comply. I highlighted what sanctions they would face if they were not able to comply with the instructions.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.








281. Mr Imbuwa (Nalolo) asked the Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection:


(a)        whether the water supplied to Muoyo Royal Village in Nalolo Parliamentary Constituency was clean and safe for human consumption;


(b)        if not, what measures had been taken to ensure that clean and safe water was supplied to the Village; and


(c)        why the Western Water and Sewerage Company made clients pay fixed charges despite the erratic supply of water to the village.


The Minister of Water Development, Sanitation and Environmental Protection (Mr Kaziya): Madam Speaker, at the time of doing the boreholes in Muoyo Royal Village, the water quality was certified to be safe for drinking. However, with the passage of time, the iron content in the water is no longer safe for drinking, and the Western Water and Sewerage Company (WWSC) has advised the residents to limit the use of water to other uses and not drinking.


Madam Speaker, the ministry, through the WWSC, is in the process of procuring an iron remover filter which will improve the water quality by making it clean and safe for drinking.


Madam Speaker, no water metres were ordered for the project at the time of the termination. Therefore, WWSC is charging a fixed charge in the absence of water metres. The fixed charges are based only on approved tariff for the year 2017, as approved by the National Water Supply and Sanitation Council (NWASCO).


 I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mr Imbuwa: Madam Speaker, the contract was terminated in 2015, and this is 2017. I would like to know when the filter will be procured.


Mr Kaziya: Madam Speaker, we are on course with the process of procuring this filter, and are likely to have it installed by next month.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.




282. Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi): asked the Minister of Home affairs:


(a)        when a motor vehicle would be procured for the Luwingu Police Station; and


(b)        why the motor vehicles previously procured for the police in the district were reallocated to other Government departments in Northern Province.


The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Madam Speaker, the Zambia Police Service procured two motor vehicles namely a Toyota Hilux and a Toyota Land cruiser for Luwingu Police Station.


Madam Speaker, the vehicles are still under Luwingu Police Station. However, the Toyota Hilux is still running while the Toyota Land cruiser is out of order.


 I want to assure the hon. Member that this morning, I inquired from the Commissioner of police, the hardworking Commissioner Mweene, who has assured me that the fault on the Land cruiser is being attended to, and that he has dispatched the gearbox which was faulty to the headquarters for repairs.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.




283. Mr Mutale (Chitambo): asked the Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development:


(a)        when construction of bridges in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency would commence; and


(b)        how many bridges were earmarked for construction in 2017.


The Minister of Housing and Infrastructure Development (Mr Chitotela): Madam Speaker, the Road Development Agency (RDA) has targeted to construct a bridge across the Loumbwa River in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency under the Acrow Bridge Programme. Preparation for detailed designs has reached an advanced stage, and is expected to be completed by the end of the third quarter of 2017. The Construction of the bridge is expected to commence in 2018 upon procurement of a contractor.


Madam Speaker, only one bridge across the Loumbwa River is earmarked for construction in 2017. Other bridges in the constituency may be considered in the 2018 Road Sector Annual Work Plan when funds permit.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, we submitted a number of bridges to be considered for construction to the ministry. Could the hon. Minister inform the people of Chitambo that he might consider some of the bridges in the 2018 Budget because I know that in the 2017 Budget he did not consider any?


Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, in part b of my answer, I said that this year we are constructing one bridge in Chitambo. Next year, funds permitting, we will consider more bridges. I want to assure the people of Chitambo that we are taking keen interest in making sure that all the bridges that have been submitted are assessed, and depending on the Assessment Report, we will make an informed decision to see which river points require putting up a bridge.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Mr Mutale: Madam Speaker, we have bridges that have been washed away. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what immediate action the ministry will take to enable the people of Chitambo manage to transport their harvest well.


Mr Chitotela: Madam Speaker, the processes and procedures of arriving at what to consider as emergency works begin with the local authority. The local authorities in Chitambo District are going to do the assessment and see the need for emergency works. They will then engage our Regional Manager in Central Province who will do the assessment. After that, the Region Manager for RDA will determine whether the project should be funded under the Force Account which caters for emergency works. He will then submit a report to Lusaka for consideration of possible funding. So, I would appeal to the area Member of Parliament to get in touch with the local authority so that they can determine whether those bridges that have been washed away qualify to be funded under the Force Account. Then we will quickly dispatch our engineers to go and do the assessment so that we can work on those bridges so that our people are not cut off, and can have access to the market. We know Chitambo is one of the agricultural areas in Central Province…


Mr Mutale: Hear, hear!


Mr Chitotela: It produces maize. We are going towards the marketing season for maize. The area Member of Parliament should liaise with the local authority in Chitambo District.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.




284. Mr Mutale (Chitambo) asked the Minister of Lands and Natural Resources when a vehicle for the Forestry Department in Chitambo District will be procured. This vehicle is expected to enhance the operations of the department in question


The Minister of Local Government (Mr Mwale) on behalf of the Minister of Lands and Natural Resources (Ms Kapata): the Ministry of Lands and Natural Resources in its 2017 Budget has not planned to procure a vehicle for the Forestry Department in Chitambo District (to enhance its operations) because of budgetary constraints.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.




285. Mr Mwila (Chimwemwe) asked the Minister of Higher Education:


(a)        when construction works of Phase III of Mukuba University in Kitwe would commence;


(b)        what structures would be constructed under Phase III;


(c)        what the total cost at (b) was; and


(d)        who the contractor for the project was.


The Minister of Higher Education (Prof. Luo): Madam Speaker, the construction works for Mukuba University are on ice at the moment because we do not have land to continue with the expansion works. The land that is right next to Mukuba University belongs to Zambia Forestation Forestry Industrial Corporation (ZAFFICO). We have since written to the hon. Minister of Lands and Natural Resources to degazatte that piece of land so that we can continue with the construction works.


Madam Speaker, the second issue why Mukuba University is on ice, is the fact that, this university was declared a university for science, mathematics and technology but when I reviewed the structures that have been put in place, the whole science block is missing. There is no way that university can be called a university of science, mathematics and technology without a science block. I have asked that the planning unit sits with the people responsible for projects to review the entire plan for the university so that it is commensurate with the sort of subjects to be offered. Because of the said reason, I am not able to tell the cost of this construction because there has to be variations made, and thus we have not proceeded with whether to engage the same contractor that is there or not.


Madam Speaker, let me take advantage of this question to say that this is why we need to invest in training of engineers who understand specialised construction. Many universities, at the time of review, do not have most of the components that are important for the sort of subjects that we want to offer. That is the case in point for Lewanika University as well. It does not have a science block.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.








Mr Sampa (Kasama Central): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Education, Science and Technology for the First Session of the Twelfth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on Friday, 23rd June, 2017.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?


Mr Mwamba (Lubansenshi):  Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.


Mr Sampa: Madam, your Committee’s work was guided by the terms of reference as set out in the National Assembly Standing Orders. Based on its terms of reference, your Committee considered the implementation of the National Science and Technology Policy in Zambia. Your Committee also considered the action take on the Report of your Committee for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly.


Madam Speaker, pursuant to the above, your Committee interacted with several stakeholders who tendered both written and oral submissions. To further appreciate what is obtaining on the ground regarding the implementation of the National Science and Technology Policy in Zambia, your Committee also undertook local and foreign tours.


Madam, the broad objective of the National Science and Technology Policy is to embed science and technology in a culture of the key sectors aimed at promoting competitiveness in the production of a wider range of quality goods and services. The mission of this policy is to promote and exploit science and technology as instruments for developing an environmentally friendly, indigenous and technological capacity for sustainable socio-economic development in order to improve the quality of life in Zambia.


Madam Speaker, the Zambian science and technology environment have changed drastically as a result of scientific advancements during the twenty year period of the current National Science and Technology Policy. The policy, according to the situation analysis in the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP), 2010, does not match with the science and technology landscape and, therefore, has not been very effective. The consequences of not having an updated policy have been detrimental to the advancement of science and technology in the country. For example, most of the technical colleges in the country have been rebranded with the focus on business related programmes, and projects to improve the technical programmes are largely donor-driven. This has led to technical skills shortages in the local labour market.


Madam, another challenge faced in the advancement of science and technology in Zambia relates to the severe shortage of skilled human resource in most research institutions in Zambia. Your Committee was informed that one of the major contributing factors to the low staffing levels in the sector is the failure by the education system to produce sufficient numbers of qualified personnel with specialised skills, and competences required in the science, technology and innovation related job market.


Further, the fragmented implementation of the science and technology agenda in the country is another challenge that is being faced in the advancement of science and technology. The carrying out of research and development in silos has led to the disjoint in the co-ordination of research outputs and has, therefore, undermined the impact of science and technology on the economic development of the country.


Madam Speaker, in view of the foregoing, allow me to give a brief analysis of your Committee’s observations and recommendations. Your Committee observes that while the essence of the 1996 National Science and Technology Policy objectives remain valid, the social, legal, political, environmental and economic situation has undergone significant changes. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Government should review and update the National Science and Technology Policy taking into account changes in the country’s economic and social landscape over the last twenty years.


Further, your Committee observes that the role of the National Institute for Industrial and Scientific Research in the advancement of science and technology appears to be limited as there is very little to point to in terms of research related to civil, mechanical, chemical, electronic and electrical engineering, nuclear science, textile technology, biotechnology, energy resources, industrial chemistry and natural products, and information science. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the National Institute for Industrial and Scientific Research should be restructured, and given increased funding to enable it play the fundamental role of being the fulcrum of industrial research in the country.


Madam, your Committee observes that there is inadequate infrastructure and equipment for carrying out research. The existing infrastructure in schools, colleges and research and development institutions is still in a dilapidated state, and is well below acceptable international standards. Your Committee recommends that the Government should improve basic infrastructure, equipment and laboratory facilities in schools and research development institutions. This can greatly contribute to the effective analysis of scientific results that are currently sent outside the country at a huge cost on the part of Government. It will also contribute to the general furtherance of science and technology in the country.


Madam Speaker, with regard to the Committee’s local tour to Lusaka, Copperbelt and the North-Western Provinces, your Committee makes the following observations and recommendations:


  1. your Committee observes that the computers being used during computer studies at Solwezi Skills Training Centre are outdated, obsolete and are not compatible with internet. In this regard, your Committee recommends that Solwezi Skills Training Centre should be equipped with modern computers in order to ensure that computer studies are conducted effectively. This recommendation applies to other skills training centres in the country;


  1. your Committee also observes that most of the machinery in the metal and woodwork workshops at the Northern Technical College (NORTEC) and the Technology Development and Advisory Unit (TDAU) is obsolete, and needs to be replaced. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government should procure modern equipment for metal and woodwork workshops at NORTEC, TDAU and other similar institutions; and


(c)        Your Committee observes that there is a lack of technical and professional staff at the Zambia Agricultural Research Institute.


In light of this, your Committee recommends that the Government ensures that adequate technical and professional staff is recruited at the institution.


Madam Speaker, following its foreign tour to Rwanda, your Committee found out that the Rwandese Government has a database of Rwandese scientists abroad as well as the research that they are carrying out. These scientists mentor Rwandese students at the College of Science and Technology as well as offer lectures when need arises.


Further, your Committee also observes that the Rwandese Government ensures that polytechnic schools are adequately funded and well-equipped. This has enabled students to invent and fabricate basic machinery such as vending machines, traditional four-plate cookers and motor vehicle spare parts.


Madam Speaker, in view of the foregoing, your Committee recommends the following:


  1. The Zambian Government should have a database of Zambian scientists, including those abroad and the research that they are carrying out. These scientists can mentor students in Zambia; and


  1. The Zambian Government should ensure that the skills development fund is disbursed to Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) institutions in order to ensure that trade institutions are adequately funded and well-equipped to fabricate machinery as this will reduce the cost of doing business faced by most small and medium scale enterprises.


Madam Speaker, your Committee also urges the Government to address the outstanding issues that have been raised in the action-taken report on the report of your Committee for the Fifth Sessions of the Eleventh National Assembly.

Madam Speaker, I wish to conclude by thanking you for the guidance provided to your Committee during the session. I also wish to thank all the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee. Last, but not the least, let me thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the support they rendered to your Committee.  


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?


Mr Mwamba: Now, Madam Speaker.


Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to second the motion before the Floor of this House. In seconding the motion, I will briefly comment on a few salient issues contained in your report.


Madam Speaker, with regards to the Committee’s topical issue “the Implementation of the Science and Technology Policy in Zambia,” most stakeholders submitted that there is poor co-ordination of science and technology programmes across line ministries. At national level, the Ministry of Higher is responsible for the overall co-ordination and implementation of science and technology innovation programmes and activities.


However, science and technology innovation programmes in Zambia are being developed and implemented across various sectors such as agriculture, health, energy, education, manufacturing, mining and industry. In light of this, your Committee recommends that science and technology be separated from the Ministry of Higher Education as it cuts across various sectors.


Madam Speaker, concerning the local tour, your Committee observes that Ndola Primary School has been innovative in the teaching of science by creating a room for practicals and demonstrations in the absence of a laboratory.


Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Government provides funds for the construction of a laboratory and provision of all necessary apparatus and materials required during the science lessons at Ndola Primary School.


Madam Speaker, your Committee observes that retired members of staff of Copperbelt University (CBU) and University of Zambia (UNZA) have been retained on payroll until full payment of their benefits. This is a huge cost to the universities and the Government. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Government immediately ensures that the retirees at CBU and UNZA are given their terminal benefits.


Madam Speaker, with regard to the foreign tour to Rwanda, your Committee observes that the Rwandese Government has overcome barriers that usually prevent children from accessing primary education, including the removal of fees to attend school, without the exception of Parents-Teachers Association (PTA) Fees.


Your Committee recommends that the Zambian Government considers the removal of PTA Fees in primary schools to ensure free access to education by all children.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mwamba: Further, grants to primary schools must be increased, and availed to the schools consistently.


Madam, your Committee observes that the physical, chemistry and microbiology laboratories at the Science and Technology College offer a diverse range of products and analytical services, such as carrying out environmental impact assessments at a fee to clients. In light of this, your Committee recommends that the Zambian Government ensures that the scientific laboratories at the National Institute for Scientific Research (NISR), Zambia Agricultural Research Institute, CBU and UNZA are capacitated to service clients more efficiently and effectively.


In conclusion, let me thank you, Madam Speaker, for the guidance you rendered to your Committee during its deliberations and the session in general. Let me also take this opportunity to thank the mover for ably moving the motion on the Floor. Lastly, let me extend my gratitude to the Office of the Clerk for the services rendered during the Committee’s deliberations.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Ms Katuta (Chienge): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank your Committee for the detailed report that they have submitted to this House. I will not take up much of the House’s time.


Madam Speaker, I would like to comment on the Parents-Teachers Association (PTA) Fees. When I speak for Chienge, I am also speaking on behalf of all rural schools where parents cannot even afford to pay a K2 for a security guard.


I would like to appeal to this House to take this issue seriously in order to see to it that our people out there benefit because there are some of the things that they cannot afford, especially education the key to freedom.


Madam, if children are deprived of education at an early stage of their primary education, what next do we expect for this nation? These children are the future generation of this country, and their parents have difficulties paying for their examination fees for both primary and secondary education. Surely, there must be a solution to this problem.


Madam, in Chienge, for instance, Grade ten and twelve children are sent back because they do not pay for Grade nine and twelve examinations fees. They are also sent back home because their parents did not pay the Parent Teachers Association (PTA) fees. If my memory serves me right, sometimes the reason is that their parents cannot pay the K435 school fees. As we sit in this House, I would like to appeal to our able Government to deal with this issue seriously.


Madam Speaker, we have children from rural areas who are so brilliant. Others have six points, but because of the impoverished homes, they are failing to pay schools fees. As we adopt this report, I would like to also urge this House to deal the the issue of ensuring that the Government supplies necessary equipment such as desks.


Madam, you can imagine a situation, where a Grade twelve is writing an examination whilst seated on the floor. This is what promotes leakages because when they come to the University of Zambia (UNZA), they cannot perform because they were just copying from the next pupil.


Madam Speaker, I would also like to talk about the so-called progressing examination, where children just write examinations and they keep on going. I find this to be retrogressive, and I stand to be corrected. In our old days, we used to write examinations in Grade four before proceeding to Grade five for the lower primary education. When we got into Grade seven, we were also required to write examinations. I am sure by so doing, it helps the children to work hard.


Madam, I would also like to talk about the issue of rural learning institutions such as primary, secondary and colleges. If the Government visited these learning institutions, they would find that education does not make any meaning to them. They are just in school because they have to be there.


Madam Speaker, I would like to say that the Government should make education a tool so that each and every individual, especially the young ones, who are growing up to be someone that they desire to be. Nowadays, you would find that although our children are in possession of the Grade Twelve Certificates, they do not even know their use. Previously, there was the desire to get to Grade Twelve or Form Five because it had a meaning.


Madam Speaker, with these few words, I support the report.


 I thank you, Madam.


Mr Jamba (Mwembezhi): Mr Speaker, I wish to support the Motion on the Table and also thank the Committee for this report.


Madam, I have some few issues to highlight. These issues should be taken seriously if we are to solve problems associated with them.


Madam Speaker, you will notice many pupils or even students at higher institutes of learning are running away from taking science and technology courses. The issues pertaining to that are cardinal. First of all, we must look at it and find out where we went wrong, and why a country like Zambia cannot afford to have people to maintain a shaft at a mine.


Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.


 Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.


 Mr Kampyongo: Madam Speaker, I almost forgot to raise this point of order, but because am near the hon. Member for Mwembeshi, Hon. Jamba, I have been reminded to raise it. I, therefore, hope that I have not disturbed the flow of thought from my colleague, Hon. Jamba.


Madam, is the hon. Member for Sioma, whom I have known to be a fellow Christian like myself in order to be introducing an attire of a certain religious nature. It is not that I have any issues to do with the religion with which that attire is associated, especially after living and knowing that kind of attire for many years. Is she in order as a Christian to masquerade as a member of a religion, where they use that attire, and introduce it in this Chamber. I seek your serious guidance and ruling on this matter.




Madam Speaker: Order!


Madam: As I earlier ruled, the attire is not inappropriate. The Chair is also aware that the Constitution of this country provides for the freedom of religious associations. If the hon. Member for Sioma has indeed, changed …




Madam Speaker: … her religion, it is within her rights under the Constitution of Zambia to do so. That is my ruling.


 May the hon. Member for Mwembezhi please continue.


 Mr Jamba: Madam Speaker, before, I was interrupted, I was saying that it is very saddening to hear reports that there are no people who are able to align the shafts in Zambia, despite the fact that Zambia had many mining engineers and people who were manning these mines and driving the shafts. There are also assertions that if Zambia did not import the technologists from the Republic of South Africa, the mines in Zambia would close.


Madam, during the time of the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mine (ZCCM), we had trades schools which were teaching many crafts and trades mining courses for the mining industry. Because of phasing out the notches, there are few or no engineers in the mines. I do not know whether some people would understand what a notch is. When I started working for ZCCM, there were notches. Those who had engineering courses, they had higher notches and higher pay. Apparently, Zambia has become a centre of accountants and social scientists. How can we develop a state without engineers?


Madam Speaker, I have also noted that schools that have been upgraded from primary to secondary schools do not have science laboratories in their newly created secondary schools. What is happening is that teachers continue teaching the pupils with information technology (IT). Is a computer a science laboratory? They no longer carry out practicals, for example, in chemistry and yet, they are saying that the schools have been upgraded from a primary to a secondary school.


During our time at Serenje Boys Secondary School, which was then, a technical School, boys were encouraged to study sciences because the laboratories for biology, chemistry including physics were there. Suffice to say that nowadays, the schools, which are masquerading as secondary schools in our constituencies do not even have laboratories.


Madam Speaker as I support this Motion, I want to encourage the hon. Minister to come with initiatives which will encourage sciences by building laboratories, and also give incentives to pupils or students who are pursuing science subjects or courses in our country.   

If we do not do that, we shall always be importing engineers from other countries. The same foreign mine engineers employed here in Zambia from countries like South Africa are paid more money than local engineers who are actually bred in Zambia.


Madam Speaker, coming from the mining industry, I can tell you that Zambia has got a shortage of geologists. Even for mineral exploration now, we depend on people from other countries. We must, therefore, encourage science courses in schools so that our generation can engage in production, instead of consuming products from other countries.


With these few words, I wish to support the Motion. Thank you, Madam Speaker.


Dr Malama (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, I rise to support the Motion. I remember the late President John F. Kennedy in the early 1960s saying, “Let us go to the moon.” That was political will, and America marshalled the science, technology and innovation required, and later in that decade, a man landed on the moon.


In the late 1940s, Mahatma Gandhi in campaigning for independence for the whole India, which at that time included Bangladesh and Pakistan, complained on the lack of manufacturing in India. The country could not even make a needle. Today, India is racing high with other developed countries in making cars, and in the field of Information and Communication Technology (ICT). What is it that has made us, particularly in Sub-Saharan Africa, lag behind? It is where we want to put our minds, and mainly, we take a copy and paste approach to development.


Madam Speaker, your Committee went to Rwanda and saw a good programme there. Rwanda today is taking stock of its own citizens who are in science and technology at home and abroad. Even if we copy that, but do not know why we are doing so, we will still lag behind. The copy and paste mentality will not help us. We need to know that this country has talented children. We have gifted children at Hillcrest, David Kaunda and other technical schools. Are we taking stock of these children? Are we investing in our young people?


Madam Speaker, I was glad the hon. Minister of Higher Education talked about a loan scheme for our young people. We need to utilise the skills of our young people that we pouring on the streets after they finish Grade 12. We have rural areas where we know that parents are living below the poverty datum line. We learnt that it is 76.6 per cent of our people living in poverty and yet, we expect those parents to be able to pay school and Parent and Teacher Association (PTA) fees for their children. Realistically speaking, how can they manage?


Madam Speaker, schools in rural areas are far away from homes. The hon. Minister of General Education mentioned that children should not walk beyond 5 km to get to school. In Kanchibiya, Lumbatwa School has collapsed, and children have to walk 50 to 60 km to the nearest school. We really need to take stock of ourselves as a people, and interrogate our future. If we pass through our time without interrogating the future well by investing in our children, we are just empowering foreign nationals to come and rule our people.


Mrs Katuta: Hear, hear!


Dr Malama: We are empowering foreign nationals to come, and be leaders of industry in Zambia tomorrow. We will be giving our hard earned revenue to foreigners to do our roads. In Kanchibiya today, our people are complaining about a lack of feeder roads. It is not just in Kanchibiya, but the entire rural part of the republic. For us to address this situation, we need to impart skills in our children by setting up trade schools in the constituencies. We will then equip our children who are coming out of school to be able to undertake development of our country.


Madam Speaker, India had many issues to deal with until it started investing in the young people. Today, the literacy levels in India are not the way they were fifty years ago. Indians are much more in number than we are. In fact, we are not even as many as the population of a district in India. There are less than 20 million people in Zambia, and our children are far fewer than India’s. The population of India is in billions. Therefore, how is it that in Zambia we are failing to invest in our children?


Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I would want to urge this country to take stock of our talented and gifted children, and utilise their skills to develop their country. In Kanchibiya and other rural places …


Mr Mutale: Like Chitambo!


Dr Malama: … such as Chitambo and many others ...


Mr Mutale: Hear, hear!


Mr Ngulube: Even Luano!


Dr Malama: Yes, including Luano. We need to help our children get and stay in school. Developed countries ensure that their children stay in school up to the age of sixteen until they finish high school.


Mr Lubinda: You forgot to mention Mahopo.


Dr Malama: Yes, we need to help children in Mahopo …




Ms Phiri: And Kanyama.


Dr Malama: … and Kanyama.


Madam Speaker, I would like to mention many places, including Moyo, where my licholocholo comes from.


Madam Deputy Speaker: What is licholocholo, hon. Member for Kanchibiya?


Dr Malama: Madam Speaker, I would like to explain that, but because of the gravity of the issues on the table, I will simply say licholocholo means beloved. My wife is from Moyo Village.




Dr Malama: It is a Lozi term for beloved. Nonetheless, to answer your question, let me add that the maize that shoots from cow dung is so green. Our people in the Western Province call it licholocholo and so do I.


Ms Phiri: Hear, hear! Kani lema.


Dr Malama: Thank you, madam. In conclusion …




Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Dr Malama: hon. member is feeling jealous when I talk about my licholocholo. In conclusion, I would like to say let us invest in our young people, and keep them in school until they finish high school. We need to provide a trade school per constituency so that children will be able to do things like bricklaying. Most of the houses our people live in rural areas are ram shackles, and this is shameful. We need to develop proper innovation to build structures that will enable our people to sleep well. Our people should be able to learn mechanics at trade schools so that they are able to repair broken down vehicles. Trade schools should also teach woodwork, agriculture and so on.


Madam Speaker, in winding up, I thank you.


Hon. Members: Hear, here


Mr Kasandwe (Bangweulu): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity.


Madam Speaker, I would like to focus my debate on technical training vis-à-vis development. It is common knowledge that the education structure or system, coupled with the level of investment in science, innovation and technology, gives you a picture of the development agenda of any given nation. The development agendum of a nation reflects the levels of investment in technology, science and innovation. Zambia has lagged behind in development, perhaps, because we have not tried to connect the education structures or systems to our development agenda. We have also not invested in innovation, technology and science. Why do I say so? Let me give an example of a football team. The main objective of a football team in a game is to score into the net. That is the direction a nation should take. Any element that is put within a system should be directed to achieve the development agenda. 


Madam Speaker, the other day, the President launched the Seventh National Development Plan (7thNDP), and I hope that in that plan, this Government identified a number of elements which will contribute to achieving the 7thNDP. About twenty-nine years ago, the population of South Korea was about 43 million. The country invested huge sums of money to train 1.4 million scientists, innovators and engineers because they had a vision to drive the development agenda of the nation.


Madam Speaker, another point I would like to make is that the hon. Minister of Higher Education can deliberately decide to provide sponsorship only for technical skills that will contribute to the development of the country. For instance, in Russia, in 1948, the Government deliberately decided to only sponsor courses which directly contributed to the development agenda of that country. I think we can learn from that example. In Zambia, we can use what I can call, positive bias. For instance, the Government can say that for the next five years, it will give bursaries only for particular courses in innovation, science and technology. Why do I say so? Let me give you an example. In Samfya District, there is a population of 225,000 people, but there are only five medical doctors. If you went to most of our trade schools, they are promoting business studies. However, those institutions were meant to provide technical skills so that when young people were trained, the Government would use their skills.


Madam Speaker, it is the human resource of a nation, not its capital or natural resources, that ultimately determine the character and pace of its social development. According to the late Professor Fredson Ardisson, “Human resources constitute the ultimate basis for the wealth of a nation. Capital and natural resources are passive factors of production. Human beings are active agents who accumulate capital, exploit natural resources, build social, economic and political organisations and carry forward national development.” So, we may be saying that we have a great deal of resources and so forth, in the absence of trained, focused, technical, qualified personnel, we may simply moving round in circles. Therefore, skills training is very important. Investment in innovation is also very important.


Madam Speaker, I want to conclude with an example, involving a professor, without taking anything away from professors.


Madam Speaker, there was a professor some years ago, who went to an island to do his research. Upon completion of his research, he went to the village headman and told him that he wanted to cross Lake Bangweulu with a canoe, and wanted to be given the best young man to paddle him across the lake. In the blink of an eye, the headman knew who was skilled in that locality and settled for a young man, Mwamba. Mwamba was tasked to paddle the professor. So, they took off. As they were moving, the professor asked the young man, “my friend, have you been to school?” then the young man said, “professor, it depends what you mean by school.”  The professor said “ to have been to school is to have gone through primary, secondary and if you are lucky, tertiary education.” Then the young man said, “If that is what it means to go to school, then I have not been to school.” The professor continued to brag about his education and whatever he had achieved in life. Those who have lived by the lake know that sometimes, the waters are not friendly. As the professor continued to brag, from nowhere, a storm began to rise, and the boat swayed and tossed. The professor became very uncomfortable, but this Mwamba guy was very stable, calm and doing what he knew best.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Withdraw the word “guy,” hon. Member.


Mr Kasandwe: Okay.


Madam Speaker, this young man was calm, but the professor was uncomfortable and frightened. As the waves built up, the water started getting into the boat, but this young man was stable, and paddling and removing some water from the boat with a small plate. He looked back and saw that the professor was nearly dying. The young man asked the professor, “Sir, have you been school?” and the professor said, “What kind of a question is that?” The young man said, “You heard me. Have you been to school?” The professor said, “Yes, I have just catalogued the courses I have done.” Then the young man asked the professor, “ In all these years you have been studying, have you ever come across a science called swimology?” Then the professor said, “Swim what?” The young man said, “You heard me.” The professor said, “In all these years I have been studying, that might be the only science I missed.” Then the young man said, “Unfortunately, professor, this is what it means to go to school for me. I am twenty years old, and for the past sixteen years, I have just been studying one subject, swimology, because in a place like this, you only survive with one subject.” As the young man continued to paddle, the boat capsized, and the professor died. The young man survived with one skill, a life-saving skill, which is swimming. This is why science, technology and innovation are important.


Madam Speaker, I support the report.


I thank you, Madam.


Madam Deputy Speaker: I am informed that the hon. Minister of Higher Education will be travelling next week so she will not be here when this debate closes. I will, therefore, ask that she speaks now.


The Minister of Higher Education (Prof. Luo): Madam Speaker, I just want to thank the mover of this report for the issues that they have raised, especially as it pertains to the issues of science, technology and innovation, and how we have managed to implement the policy on science and technology. However, I will probably comment on some of the issues that have been raised by other people.


Madam, I wish to inform this august House and the nation that my ministry has observed all the shortcomings that have been highlighted in the report. It is because of this, that the ministry has been reviewing our science policy in this country. It is also reviewing the institutions that have been put in place to respond to the issues of science and technology. It has also introduced some structures that may help us in popularising and commercialising of issues around science and technology.


To this effect, Madam Speaker, we have looked at our National Science Council which was tasked with the responsibility to promote science in this country as well as raise resources for science. We believe that we need to separate these particular functions. So, the National Science Council will only be left with a function of promoting and raising resources for research and the promotion of science, technology and innovation in the country. We are going to replace the popularisation and promotion of science by putting in place the Science Academy. I will soon be taking this to Cabinet for approval.


With the Science Academy, where all the members of this academy will be scientists themselves, some of the issues that were raised about putting a database of scientists in this country and abroad, will be done by this group of people. In this Science Academy, we will also introduce young science academies so that we start growing the young people, and start attracting others to science.


Madam Speaker, we have also looked at our National Technical and Business Council, and in trying to interrogate their mandate, we realised that they did not even understand their mandate. Yet, this is the institution that should connect innovation to private sector and the industry.


Hon. Member: Yes!


Prof. Luo: To this effect, we are reviewing this business council, and also trying to revisit their mandate so that they can do more and promote and link the work and the innovations in this country to industry.


I want to share, Madam Speaker, that in fact there is a great deal of innovation that is on the table, but we have not just moved it. Some of it has not even done by scientists themselves, but they have been done by simple women in the communities, and our council did not know the How. This is why we are addressing the How.


Madam Speaker, I am also surprised that many technical schools started promoting business courses. This is caused by an issue of attitude. These schools do not know their mandate. Institutions of higher learning in this country have run away from their mandate. They think they are civil servants, and that they can make a business out of education.


Madam Speaker, if any academician thinks they will get rich from academia, then they are wasting their time. If you want money, move out of academia, and work in the private sector. The wealth of an academician is measured by their deeds. As I speak, somebody may be quoting my work in the United States of America or Japan. That is the measure of the wealth of an academician. This is what our people in institutions of higher learning should know because they have started teaching in several institutions in order to try and make more money.


Madam Speaker, our universities have gone astray. I have been bringing them back to what academia is from the time I came to this ministry. We are reviewing many institutions in this country in a bid to reignite their mandate. We will see a change by next year, regarding what our mandate is, and what we are supposed to do.


Madam Speaker, regarding employment, I have not only called for a curriculum review, but I have also called for more employment opportunities. I want a situation where people who are employed in institutions rise as researchers. Some may be employed as lecturers, but they will have to do research because they have to be promoted. The entire structure of our institutions of higher learning in this country is going to change. We are also going to take in aspects such as servant leadership in the curriculum of our institutions.


Madam Speaker, I do not think our institutions should have student unions. Unions will draw your last bit of blood. We need to introduce guild leadership in our institutions. I will be carrying out consultations with the students, stakeholders and the churches so that Zambia moves away from unionism in our institutions of higher learning to another level of leadership already mentioned- guild leadership.


Madam Speaker, I think we are on course. Most of the issues that were raised by the mover and seconder of this report are already in session. We have done a great deal of work which we will bring to this House in the form of Acts and ministerial statements.


I thank you, Madam Speaker.


Mrs Fundanga (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, I do not know if I am breaking protocol by speaking after the hon. Minister.




Mrs Fundanga: Madam Speaker, when His Excellency the President came to open the National Assembly, he bemoaned the lack of skills in the country in his speech, and said it was unfortunate that we are getting skilled labour from across our border.


Madam Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Members who spoke before me have also bemoaned the lack of technical skills in this country. I believe we are all saying the same thing, but we need to find a way forward. We realise that sometimes creating a new venture does not always produce good results. We already have trade schools in this country. In fact, I think we have one trade school in each provincial headquarters.


Madam Speaker, I am very happy that Professor Nkandu Luo, the hon. Minister of Higher Education, is here.


I would like to urge the minister to do the refurbishing of these schools so that they can be up to standard, instead of thinking of building new ones. At the same time, I am glad that she does realise that these schools have actually diverted from the purpose they were built for. When these schools were built, they were called trade institutes. A trade is basically a skill. They were supposed to be training our children in various skills, but nowadays, like the hon. Minister rightly pointed out, these schools are offering courses such as secretarial, and accounting. Basically, these are commercial courses which we actually do not need.


Madam Speaker, I would like to urge the hon. Minister and her ministry to encourage our children to have pride in going to trade institutes. Yesterday, when the hon. Minister presented her ministerial statement, she did point out that most of our children want to go to universities. Even those who have not academically done well want to go to universities. So, this means that we need to attract these children to take up skills in these trade training institutes.


Madam Speaker, like the other hon. Members have already mentioned, in most countries that have developed and industrialised, skills training has been key. In fact, in some countries such as Germany, you will find that a person with practical skills gets more money than the one with an academic university degree.


Hon. Government Members: How?


Mrs Fundanga: You can google it.


I would, therefore, urge the hon. Minister of Higher Education to begin offering bursaries to children who are going to trade institutes for training so that they can at least feel that they are also being taken care of, and that the skills which they are going to get will be respected thereafter.  So, the nature of our approach should come first. As Members of Parliament, I think, even as we go to our constituencies, we should advise our children to not only apply to go to institutions of higher learning such as the University of Zambia (UNZA) and all these other private universities which have cropped up but also to trades institutes. We should be able to encourage them to go to institutes such as Mansa Trades Training Institute and Kasama Trades Training Institute. This way, they will be able to go and obtain practical skills.


Madam Speaker, in Zimbabwe, they have got a very good skills training programme, and this is why there are many Zimbabweans who are coming into Zambia to build our homes, and to do all sorts of activities. Since we are bemoaning the fact that there is no employment in this country, we should encourage our children to take up some of these practical skills. The most important thing is to change the mindset of our children so that they can start respecting this kind of education.


Madam Speaker, I thank you.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


The Minister of General Education (Dr Wanchinga): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the Committee that worked on this report for a job well done. I would like to thank my colleagues who made submissions to this report.


Madam Speaker, however, I would like to start by saying that this report consists of four parts. The first cluster of recommendations concerns the issues of science and technology. The second cluster relates to education and the third one concerns technical education and entrepreneurship training. The forth component, …


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!


(Debate adjourned)


The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 5th July, 2017.