DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 17th October, 2013

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER
______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

THE DEFERMENT OF NET RECRUITMENT IN THE PUBLIC SERVICE 

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for according me this opportunity to provide a statement in relation to the comments that were made on the Floor of this House by my colleague, the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, which some hon. Members of Parliament took out of context. My statement is aimed at putting this matter in the correct context and perspective.

Sir, I wish to reiterate that, in order to ensure that there is sufficient fiscal space for the provision of basic social services and investment in public infrastructure and to reduce the proportion of Government revenues spent on the Public Service wage bill, which is currently projected at over 53 per cent in 2014, the Government has proposed a deferment of net recruitment to 2015.

Mr Speaker, by net recruitment, I mean the creation and filling of new posts in the Public Service. This excludes the replacement of posts that fall vacant due to retirement, resignation, death and dismissal, among others.

Sir, this policy means that all those institutions that will embark on the replacement of staff for the reasons that I have highlighted above, will be authorised to undertake recruitment because the positions are already provided for in the 2014 Budget.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the recruitment under the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, I wish to inform this august House that the Treasury granted authority in May, 2013, to recruit 952 health personnel. It is expected that the ministry will fill all these posts by the end of 2013. Should the ministry not fill all the posts this year, it will still be allowed to fill the balance of the posts in 2014, since the posts were created in 2013, and resources have already been provided for in the 2014 Budget.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Sir, the hon. Minister has indicated that posts that are created and those that need to be filled will be provided for. I would like to find out the category in which the positions that will need to be filled in the newly-built institutions such as hospitals and schools will be considered.

Mr Chikwanda: Sir, those positions will be considered in 2015. With respect to 2014, only positions that relate to resignation, retirement, death or dismissal will be filled. It is hoped that 952 positions in the ministry under discussion, for which the Treasury already granted authority, will be filled in the course of this fiscal year. In the most likely event that this is not done, the ministry will still be allowed to fill the positions because that is provided for in the 2014 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, it is on record that the Government has created many new districts, most of which do not have personnel to serve in the Government departments in those districts. With this deferment in recruitment, will the districts not be allowed to recruit new personnel to work in the districts or not?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the new districts will be served by the people who are already employed in the Public Service. No recruitment will be undertaken in 2014. 

Interruptions

Mr Chikwanda: Let us be orderly because that is very clear.

Laughter

Mr Chikwanda: We said that there will be no recruitment next year because it has been deferred to 2015.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, we understand your statement, hon. Minister of Finance. However, a lot of schools are being built and there is a need to increase the number of teachers. There is already a shortage of teachers at the moment. So, what will happen to the schools that will be opened? Will there be no need to employ teachers?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, even with the most unlikely enhanced efficiency, there will be no school which will be built in just one year. When we start building the schools in 2014, it is most unlikely that they will be finished and ready for occupancy by 2015.

Interruptions

Mr Chikwanda: So, there is latitude. We will use 2014 to prepare ourselves thoroughly for 2015 and beyond.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Very good.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am impressed by the fact that the person who asked the question said, “very good,” upon hearing the answer.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, yesterday, the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, stated that his ministry, together with the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, have been exempted from the deferment of recruitment. Can the hon. Minister confirm what was said yesterday. Who is telling us the truth? Are the two ministries exempted or not?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I think the answer has been given. There is no exemption except that the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child and Health, has been allowed to recruit this year. However, in the unlikely event that all the 952 positions are not filled, we shall have to continue recruiting next year using what has been budgeted for in 2013.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, there is a belief that the recruitment freeze is as a result of donor interference due to over borrowing and other things that have gone wrong. Can the hon. Minister clarify that.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the deferment of the recruitment exercise is not at the behest of the donors. Donors do not interfere in the internal operations of our country. The deferment is purely for reasons of a lack of fiscal space.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is on record as having said that they would create jobs after coming into power. Now that it is in Government, they have frozen recruitment for the next two years. Why is the hon. Minister of Finance contradicting himself on the issue of job creation? 

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the creation of jobs has not been frozen. The Government is only a small employer in the economy as a whole. There will be activity on the farm stead as well as in companies. Therefore, jobs will still be created. 

In the Civil Service, however, employment has to be related to the Government’s capacity to service these jobs. I have already said that for the financial year 2014, the Civil Service wage bill will absorb 52 per cent of the internally-generated revenue, estimated at K30 billion. We are, therefore, simply trying to give ourselves latitude to recruit when the financial circumstances are conducive. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Finance whether no public institution requiring manpower will be opened between now and 2015. 

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, if there will be a need, the new institutions, by recourse, will be manned by the existing staff in the Public Service. 

I thank you Sir. 

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, my question is in line with Hon. Mutelo’s. The hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health’s statement, which said that essential workers will be employed, is what has brought about the confusion. 

Hon. Minister of Finance, would you not say that this statement is contrary to your declaration. May I, please, have clarification on this.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Chembe is pre-occupied with contradiction where there is none. All the staff in the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health are essential. The hon. Minister has been authorised by the Treasury to take on board 952 essential workers who are already provided for in the Budget. I, therefore, cannot see anything contradictory in what the hon. Minister said. The hon. Member is a very resourceful person, but he is over strict with the parameters of his resourcefulness. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.  

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to clarify whether this recruitment freeze affects the Zambia Army, the Zambia Air Force, the Zambia National Service and the Zambia Police Force. 

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I would have thought that the hon. Member for Keembe, who is a distinguished General, would be aware that those institutions he has made reference to are part of the Public Service. Therefore, they are also covered. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the Zambian youths have no stake in the running of this country.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, Zambia is essentially a very young country, with 70 per cent of its population being 30 years old and below. The young people constitute the most potent resource that this country has. Therefore, we should all put an effort in trying to make sure that this human resource is converted into an asset instead of its being a liability. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, the agriculture sector has suffered because of the lack of extension services. The hon. Minister of Finance, in his Budget Address, stated that agriculture is the pillar for inclusive growth, especially for the rural economy. 

Mr Kapyanga: Question!

Mr Mucheleka: Hon. Minister, are you now saying that even the graduates from various agriculture colleges will not be employed for the next two years? Is that not a contradiction to the statement in the Budget Speech? 

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, there is no contradiction. Extension services are a compelling need. If we are to go forward, it is imperative that we re-enforce extension services to get the small-scale farmers to produce more effectively. 

Sir, extension services are very important, but we are saying that with respect to 2014, no recruitment will take place. We are deferring the recruitment exercise to 2015 so as to ensure that the Government has got adequate capacity to take on more workers. At the moment, the Civil Service is quite big and, possibly, bloated and the PF Government does not want to scale down the number of jobs because our policy is to create more jobs. Therefore, there is a need for us to have a bit of respite from recruitment to make sure that the recruitment exercise is commensurate with the available resources.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance is hopeful that there will be adequate fiscal space in 2015 to absorb the backlog as well as the new seekers of job opportunities in the Public Service. Can he shade light on the policy strategic interventions that he is putting in place for the fiscal space to be created that will absorb both the backlog and the new entrants in 2015.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Let me guide the House. I have noticed that we are not debating the issue that was raised yesterday. I will, therefore, allow one or two more people to debate before we move on to the next item.

Hon. Minster, you can continue.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the Budget contains a lot of allocations to growth-promoting areas. So, we hope that the economy will be growing as a result of the investments we are undertaking and, hopefully, with time, the capacity will increase.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to congratulate the PF on making sure that it destroys itself.

Hon.PF Members: Question.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, looking at the issue of the Government not providing employment for young people next year, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures have been put in place to make sure that the youth are employed by the private sector.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Muchinga just wanted to introduce a bit of humour. First and foremost, the PF is not destroying itself.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ooh!

Mr Chikwanda: It is gathering momentum …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Chikwanda: … and getting stronger. By the time we get to the critical time in our political cycle, the PF will be totally unassailable.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the Government’s role in creating jobs in the private sector is limited to creating an enabling environment.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chikwanda: That is to say, conditions which are conducive for the private sector to function to the best of its potentiality. That is what the Government does, and then people are employed by the private companies. The Government does not dictate to firm X, for example, to employ these and those types of people. The Government creates conditions which enable the private sector to function at maximum effectiveness and jobs are created in the process.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.
_________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

BEMBA PARAMOUNT CHIEFTAINCY

118. Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West) asked the Vice-President:

(a)    why the information given to the House by the Hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs on 2nd October, 2013, concerning the procedure for ascending to the Bemba Paramount Chieftaincy was different from that of the Bemba Traditional Council, as contained in the Times of Zambia newspaper of 8th October, 2013: and

(b)    what the correct procedure for ascending to the chieftaincy was.

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance might be a more suitable person to answer this question than me. 

Mr Muntanga: Aah! 

The Vice-President: Perhaps, I should have answered his question. 

Mr Mucheleka: Sure. Just answer the question.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it is somewhat an ironical situation where a muzungu is standing before about six members of the Bemba Royal Establishment to give an account of how the succession of the Paramount Chief is determined. I will try to clarify so that this question does not come back in another guise.

Mr Speaker, newspapers are newspapers, and we treat them as hearsay and unreliable sources of information unless those sources are verified directly by yourself. They need to be verified with the official Government position.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

His Honour the Vice-President cannot be heard. You people on my right should, at least, …

Hon. Opposition Members: He is whispering.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am talking about the people on both my right and left. Please, can we listen.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, what was reported in the Times of Zambia newspaper of 8th October, 2013, should, therefore, be treated as hearsay. The question is on the correct procedure for ascending to the chieftaincy.

Mr Speaker, the answer is that the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs gave a summary of the procedure for ascending to the Paramount Chief Chitimukulu Chieftaincy, but I am going to give the detailed procedure.

Mr Speaker, I would like to advise the House that from 0600 hours this morning to just at the end of lunch hour, I was reading a book on succession in the Bemba Chieftaincy. This goes to show how detailed the procedure is. Since I do not have a time limit on this, I could actually spend the rest of today’s session giving you the details.

Hon. Opposition Members: Summarise.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am summarising. It is more detailed, but not entirely detailed.

Mr Speaker, according to the records held at the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs and the National Archives, the process of ascending to the throne of Paramount Chief Chitimukulu has two main lineages. One lineage is where, from the Chief Chikwanda Throne, one ascends to the Senior Chief Nkula Throne and awaits for possible selection to become Paramount Chief Chitimukulu when the throne falls vacant.

The other lineage is where, from Chief Mpepo, one ascends to the Chief Nkole Mfumu Throne and then ascends to the Senior Chief Mwamba Throne and awaits possible selection to become Paramount Chief Chitimukulu when the throne falls vacant. Therefore, when the position of Paramount Chief Chitimukulu is vacant, the choice of a successor will be made between Senior Chief Nkula and Senior Chief Mwamba.

When the throne of Paramount Chief Chitimukulu becomes vacant upon the death of the incumbent, Chief Chimba becomes the caretaker of the chiefdom for the entire period that the body of the Paramount Chief lies in state.

Mr Speaker, further, according to oral narratives of the Bemba succession rites and other literature which includes, “A History of the Bemba: Political Growth and Change in North-Eastern Zambia before 1900”, written by A. Roberts, and “The Succession of the Bemba Chiefs, A Guide for District Officers”, which I have just read in its entirety, and was written by W.V. Brelsford”, and is available at the National Archives, when the time for the succession of new Paramount Chief Chitimukulu draws near, it is also essential to consult and get a clear position of the queen mothers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I thank His Honour the Vice-President for saying that what we read about in the newspapers is hearsay. I thought papers were meant to inform the nation but, since they are hearsay, I can only thank His Honour the Vice-President for saying that. Now that there is Bashi Lubemba by the name of Mr Sosola Kanyanta, is this Government going to gazette him or not?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have not particularly researched this case because the question does not refer to Mr Sosala or his claims to any throne. It is the prerogative of the President to recognise or de-gazette a chief.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President, who is also my friend, …

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Yes.

Mr Mwale: He is Tom.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Tom and Jerry.

Mr Mbewe: … whether, since the issue of the succession for the Bemba Paramount Chief has reached a stage where the Chief is there illegally, …

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: … the Government does not foresee what is happening in Bemba land extending to other chiefdoms.

The Vice-President: My friend, …

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank my friend for that friendly question.

Laughter

The Vice-President: What is clear about the history of Bemba succession is that, although the basic idea is that it is a matrilineal system and moves up through various chiefs’ thrones to the top, there is often a lot of wrangling and it can take up to two years, traditionally, to decide on a new Chief Chitimukulu.

Sir, since there was a Colonial Government established here until now, the Government has always been engaged with the Royal Establishment on the choice of Paramount Chief Chitimukulu. So, I doubt that it is contagious. It is familiar and is a repetition of things we have seen before. I do not think it is going to jump to Chadiza and start causing problems at Munzanga Turn Off, wherever that is.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Thank you, Mr Speaker, Ngoshe Mukote, …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … His Honour the Vice-President has stated that he is not aware of the claim of this chief to be Paramount Chief Chitimukulu. In this House, we were told that Mr Sosala, who was Senior Chief Mwamba, was de-gazetted because he was not traditionally anointed. So, the Government de-gazetted him. Now, that Mr Sosala has been traditionally anointed, why is the Government hesitating to gazette him? Why is the Government now somersaulting?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it is a matter of giving time for tempers to cool and allow for negotiations. That is all I can guess. I am not the President nor am I privy to his thoughts. Besides, the subject in question does not concern Mr Sosala.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President has ably explained that for one to become Paramount Chief Chitimukulu, there are two lineages. One is through Senior Chief Nkula and the other one through Senior Chief Mwamba. The one that the Bembas rightly believe should be their Paramount Chief is the immediate Senior Chief Mwamba. As a Government, you are taking a lot of time to recognise him by gazetting him. Do you not see that you are somehow playing double standards?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have answered a simple question about the procedure of selecting the Paramount Chief of the Bembas. I think this follow-up question is an attempt to entangle me in current affairs when there are many chiefdoms that are not gazetted in Zambia. The Bembas are not the only people in Zambia. They may be the most numerous, but they are not the only ones. There are many chiefdoms that are embroiled in wrangles, and some of them have been embroiled in wrangles for decades.

I thank you, Sir.

NKEYEMA DISTRICT GOVERNMENT OFFICES

119. Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications when the construction of Government offices in the newly-created Nkeyema District would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications (Mr M. H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the construction of Government offices and other support infrastructure in Nkeyema District can only commence after the completion of district zoning plans by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. However, the zoning plans have not been made available to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, at the moment, the Government has employed some people who have since been sent to the Tobacco Board of Zambia (TBZ). May I know where these officers will operate from? Since that district has a lot of mango trees, are they going to operate under mango trees or elsewhere?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, all those who are working in the new districts, including Shiwang’andu, a district which I visited, are squatting. The Government will start building office accommodation for the new districts when all the processes have been completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I would like to make a follow-up question on the issue of squatting which is also happening in Mitete. Obviously, as the hon. Minister responsible for Transport, Works, Supply and Communications, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

There is no order in the House. There is only one person on the Floor. Please, if you are to consult, do so quietly.

Dr Kalila: … can you give an indication …

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am still talking.

Dr Kalila: Sorry, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am actually helping you. Let us consult quietly if we have to do so. 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You are not listening. I am saying that you are consulting loudly.

Can the hon. Member continue.

Dr Kalila: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the hon. Deputy Minister is able to give an indication of when this squatting all round the country will come to an end. I am not asking when the construction will start, but when this squatting will come to an end.

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the only time squatting will come to an end is when the zoning has been done by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications moves in to construct the offices. As long as there is no infrastructure, the officers will continue squatting.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, as the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications, where do you expect the officers you have appointed for Nkeyema to squat since there is no infrastructure there?

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, we are going to look into what the hon. Member has just asked. If there will be a need to provide temporary shelter, then we will consider doing that. However, we have been told that there are offices that the officers can occupy. We shall go there and check.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, within 730 days of the PF being in office, over twenty-nine districts have been created without infrastructure. Hon. Minister, would you say you are actually impressed with this situation?

Laughter

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, firstly, all the hon. Members need to know that the PF Government came up with the idea of creating districts for a purpose. There are a lot of districts that have been created over the years that have had no infrastructure. However, we have been trying to put up a plan to ensure that we handle this matter in a very systematic way. What we need are master plans for the districts. With master plans in place, it will be easy for us to execute the work. We are committed to doing this and we are going to do just that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, now that Nkeyema District has no infrastructure, when do I see you heading to the district to see what type of infrastructure there is? I would also like to know when you will help the people there with infrastructure development.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, since the hon. Member wants to see me there, I will be going round the country every weekend and so, I will make sure I visit that district.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, is the Government not considering going to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) to ask for tents which can be used as temporary shelter for the officers since the rains are just around the corner.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate that question from the hon. Member of Parliament. What the hon. Member has asked was actually done in Lukulu West through the DMMU. However, where there are structures, we shall ask the people who work in these districts to use the available structures. Where there are no structures, we shall find an alternative to ensure that the people operate in a decent environment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, I am a bit concerned about the hon. Minister’s response of him going round the country. Will the master plan that the Government is developing be developed after he has gone to all the parts of the country or it is already underway?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, last weekend, I was in Chikankata to try to see some of the developmental activities there. What I am saying is that the master plans are being developed at the moment. However, I will be going round the country to see what is on the ground and compare with what is on the master plan. The Government has engineers on the ground who are working on these projects. So, I do not need to be there. What I need to do is inspect the works that are being carried out in a particular place.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, a master plan is supposed to guide whatever you do. How then has this master plan become ongoing?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, to make a plan, you have to start from somewhere. You gather information and compile it. Currently, information to form the master plan is being gathered.

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Mr Mukanga: Of course, we are going to come up with a master plan once we have finished gathering the information.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

That is not what happens in the House. You are now entering into a dialogue. You asked a question so, let the hon. Minister answer.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, thank you very much for your guidance. At the moment, the Government is collecting information. That is why I said it was ongoing. I do not know what type of English I can use.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

DISTRICT COMMISSIONERS’ QUALIFICATIONS

120. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Vice-President whether the Government had any plans to upgrade the minimum qualifications of District Commissioners (DCs) to university degree.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Mwango): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to upgrade the minimum qualifications of the DCs. In so doing, it will take into account academic qualifications and other attributes such as experience in social mobilisation, management skills as well as leadership skills.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, when will those plans be put into effect?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this is an on-going process. We are seeking to improve the quality of the personnel that we are employing. We would like to see all these skills become more evident only. For example, we do not want to bring a simple piece of legislation and say you must have a degree to be a Member of Parliament. You need leadership skills and all the other attributes. We do not see there being any cut-off point for us to determine that this is rather poor and so, we think another Member of Parliament would be better. It is the same with the DCs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, what the hon. Minister has talked about seems to be a long-term plan. In the short or medium term, what does the Government plan to do to improve the qualifications of DCs, especially those who were appointed on the Copperbelt Province and use Bemba on national television? What plans do you have to help them improve their communication skills?

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am at a loss to know who those DCs who use Bemba on national television are. As long as what is being said in Bemba makes sense, I do not see where the problem is.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the position of DC is equivalent to that of Deputy Permanent Secretary. When is the Government going to consider elevating civil servants who have a lot of experience through long service to positions of DCs rather than picking …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to mislead all of us here and the nation at large by insinuating that the Office of the DC is equivalent to that of the Deputy Permanent Secretary …

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: … when, to the contrary, that position is equivalent to that of a Director?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President rose.

Hon. Opposition Member: The point of order is not complete.

The Vice-President resumed his seat.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Oh! I beg your pardon.

I had a problem making a ruling on that point of order because I am not conversant with those positions. Hon. Member, you can continue with your question.

Mr Muchima: Sir, before the point of order was raised, I was saying the position of DC is a critical one which requires vast experience in the Civil Service. Will the Government consider concentrating on promoting officers who have served long in the Civil Service rather than picking cadres from the political arena who are only concentrating on political mobilisation at the expense of the welfare of the districts?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am not happy with the insinuations that are coming with that question. There are former civil servants like my former constituency chairman who has now been made DC in Luano, now that it is safe for him to go there without the fear of being slaughtered by the Mailoni brothers. He was previously a civil servant who then became a constituency chairman and has now become a DC. What is wrong with that? I do not understand where the problem is. If he has got the experience and has a notion of what our Government and party policies are, what should be the problem? Part of his job is to make sure that we take this country in the direction spelt out in the PF Manifesto and not in some other direction.  

(f)    promote efficient resource utilisation as well as project supervision. 

Sir, the Budget that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance brought out some key points to boost economic growth, reduce poverty and create employment with a focus on the youths. This Motion emphasises the need to improve the quality of public sector spending as well as oversight. There is also a need to promote access to capital, inter-temporary equity, efficiency in the use of resources and accountability. 

Sir, this Motion is also in line with our legal institutional structure. The Finance Management Act promotes the objectives of good financial management in order to maximise service delivery. The key objectives of the Act may be summerised as follows:

(a)    to modernise the systems of financial management in the public sector;

(b)    to enable public sector managers to manage and, at the same time, be held more accountable; and 

(c)    to ensure that there is timely provision of quality information and elimination of wastage and corruption in the use of public expenditure.

Mr Speaker, we are trying to ensure the promotion of infrastructure funding. This is very important because the provision of infrastructure is a pre-requisite for economic development. At the same time, it enables us to implement counter cyclical-intervention policies in our economy. It also assists us to create employment. Therefore,  it is very important that we promote enhanced oversight over debt acquisition so that we have access to cheaper capital and ensure that when the future generation is paying back the debt, they have access to the use of public assets that will have been created by the funds for which they will have an obligation to repay. 

Sir, there are funding challenges in the global context. This is the more reason we should be competitive enough to ensure that we are perceived as the preferred destination for funding because we are not the only ones that need the funding. All the countries need that funding. Therefore, we should be efficient enough to promote competitiveness. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that this very important Motion will also lead to improved debt-management strategies. The mover and seconder of the Motion indicated that there could be a possibility of an Act being created to back up the concerns that the Motion is raising. Over and above that, there will be a need to craft a policy framework for parastatal companies’ borrowings in order to create explicit mechanisms to help the Government manage contingent liabilities. 

Sir, the benefits that might come from having this mechanism can be summerised as follows:

Mr Speaker, when we allow parastatal companies to borrow on their own, they will be more efficient because the banks will ensure that the projects to which they are lending money are bankable. Out of the US$750 million Eurobond, the railway sector would not have been given any money if it was directly accessed from a financial institution. I am saying so because that financial institution would have allocated a project manager from within the financial institution to follow up the implementation of those funds on a monthly basis. Some financial institutions go as far as having representation on boards of companies. This means that a parastatal company cannot attempt to misuse the funds like what happened at the Zambia Railways. I thank the Government for taking those drastic measures to ensure that public funds were protected. This would not have happened if parastatal companies were made to access funds on their own. 

Mr Speaker, there is also the issue of inter-temporary equity. For the monies that we borrow today to put up public infrastructure such as a railway line or road with a lifespan of thirty years, the generation that will be using this asset in thirty years’ time must share in its cost so that our burden is lifted. 

Sir, there is also the issue of efficiency in resource allocation and accountability. The promotion of access to finance by parastatal companies also tends to promote accountability because banks have a way of punishing wrongdoers by simply denying them access to finance. If they come to the Government, the Government can say to the executive of the company, “Every parastatal is borrowing on the basis of its balance sheet. What is wrong with you? If you cannot manage this parastatal, then quit.”  We were going to have improved efficiency and more accountability in the parastatal sector. 

Mr Speaker, there are three underlying reasons for our wanting Parliament to provide an oversight role in order to ensure that the Government and parastatal companies have direct access to capital markets by. There is a need to limit contingent liability and just induce systemic discipline in the parastatal and Government sectors. The other reason is, like we accessed the Eurobond, if we allowed parastatal companies to access the financial market separately, we would broaden the base of sources for investment resources. 

Sir, in conclusion, …

Interruptions

Mr Mulusa: … a well-run oversight programme by the Government, in combination with parliamentary oversight, will assist reduce the lenders’ perceived risk. When debt is costed, there is the element of premium risk. More often than not, developmental debt carries a very small component of interest charged. However, that interest charged grows by the component of premium risk. When the lenders realise that the Government and Parliament have taken an active role in the supervision of that debt, that risk factor is reduced and the Government and parastatal companies will end up accessing cheaper debt.

Sir, the role of Parliament through this proposed oversight will be to align developmental policy objectives to concessional funding and will also promote an enhanced-regulatory framework. With these contributions, I beg to support this important Motion. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion on the Floor on behalf of the people of Lupososhi Constituency whom I represent.

Sir, this is a very interesting Motion, considering the zeal and enthusiasm that has been shown by our colleagues in the MMD who were in power before us and had control of the Government.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: The zeal that they have shown in bringing these legal reforms needs commendation. Unfortunately, they did not bring the reforms at the time when they had the opportunity to do so.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, the issue of enhancement of the oversight function of Parliament has been with us for a long time. In the past, the Zambian people said that they needed this amendment. Unfortunately, those who were in power then listened, but decided not to act upon it. 

Sir, I am a proponent of an enhanced oversight role of Parliament in order to increase the checks and balances so as to bring about efficiency and effectiveness in the utilisation of public resources. This is as a result of the realisation by the Zambian people that they had been tricked in the past, especially with regard to the Formula One Road Projects.

Laughter

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, the Zambian people were told that the Formula One Road Projects were funded by tax arrears, and yet it was a loan that was obtained by our colleagues who had the instruments of power then.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: Bwekeshapo.

Mr Bwalya: Sir, it is only right that we enhance the controls in contracting debt. When presenting the 2014 Budget to this House, the hon. Minister of Finance mentioned that the country was embarking on legal reforms that would enhance the oversight role of Parliament and that Parliament should have a say in what debt or loan should be contracted and for what purpose. This is what a responsible Government is expected to do.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: That is exactly what we stated in one of your reports of the Committee on Estimates on the Floor of this House.

Mr Sikazwe: Balalaba.

Mr Bwalya: I am pretty sure that steps have been taken towards doing exactly what this Motion is seeking to bring to this House.

Mr Speaker, we owe it to the Zambian people who voted for the PF on the premise that it would be a transparent and accountable Government. Therefore, it is only right that we do just that as per our manifesto.

Sir, I think it is a matter of objectivity when the hon. Minister of Finance comes to this House to ask Parliament to give the Government a go ahead to borrow. That is what we will have to look at in future. How objective are we going to be in an event that the hon. Minister comes with a request to borrow money to construct a road in the Northern or North-Western Province? That is something that I can leave for the future to tell.
 
Mr Speaker, we are the only legislative wing of the Government. We are not going to abrogate that responsibility to any other wing because the reason we were voted for is to legislate. This Government has opened its doors by saying that it will reform and bring legislation that the Zambian people have been looking forward to including in the Constitution.

Sir, the Zambian people have lived with this problem for a long time. I am glad that this Government will be on record as having listened to the Zambian people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: We will continue listening to them because His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia listens attentively, is productive and delivers what the Zambian people are asking for. In simple terms, this Motion is trying to push open an open door.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: During the twenty-seven-year reign of the United National Independence Party (UNIP), and the twenty-year reign of the MMD, this issue kept coming up, but nobody listened to the Zambian people. We will try, as much as possible, to see what we can do for the Zambian people. However, we will require the co-operation of our colleagues on your left, Mr Speaker. They must know that what we are doing is for the benefit of the people.

Mr Speaker, the colleagues on your left must appreciate …

Prof. Luo: On a point of Order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Interruptions

Prof Luo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Unfortunately, you are sitting in the wrong place. So, you cannot have your point of order. 

Can the hon. Member continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Prof. Luo: I am in my seat, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, it is always important to show humility and magnanimity when the need arises. 

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for according me the opportunity to raise this point of order. 

Sir, are the hon. MMD Members of Parliament in order to shout, “Hear, hear!” when they failed to implement the Motion on the Floor? 

I need your serious ruling, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Lupososhi may continue. 

Mr Muntanga: Ngoshe Mukote!

Mr Bwalya: As I was saying, Sir, there was failure in the past to administer the affairs of this country and give the Zambian people the proper legislation that they needed. 

Mr Speaker, …

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let me guide. The flow of debate seems to have been good so far because this is a very interesting subject. I will allow this point of order, but it is the last time I will do so. 

You may raise your point of order. 

Laughter 

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, when we were discussing the issue of the Bemba Chieftaincy, the hon. Member of Parliament for Munali, Dr Luo, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Professor.

Mr Mbulakulima: Ngoshe Mukote! 

Mr L. J. Ngoma: … Prof. Luo, sat in terror and almost sweated blood.
    
Laughter 

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Is she in order to suddenly wake up and start raising points of order on the Floor of the House?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Lupososhi may continue. 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I was saying that the then Government failed to listen to the Zambian people. 

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I have a long list of people who want to debate. This is why I said that the point of order by the hon. Member for Sinda is the last one I would allow. Therefore, those who are contemplating to debate must bear this in mind. It will be appreciated if you can make your points within a given time. You do not have to finish all the twenty minutes. 

You may continue. 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I rarely complete my twenty minutes. 

Sir, I was saying that there was failure by the UNIP and MMD governments to listen to the Zambian people when they cried for this law. Hence, we were told by the late President, Dr Mwanawasa, SC., that the Formula One Road Projects were a donation from the Chinese Government and yet it was a loan, which we are still paying back. 

It is such things that make our hearts bleed when we look back. We had very responsible and learned gentlemen that presided over the affairs of this country, but failed to listen to the people at the time they wanted this piece of legislation. It is in view of this that the people of Lupososhi and I would like the controls enhanced that will enable us to provide the oversight role that we, the Parliamentarians, have been mandated. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I rise to support the Motion on the Floor that has been ably moved by my colleagues, urging the Government to amend legislation related to external borrowing so as to provide for enhanced parliamentary oversight.    

Mr Speaker, this Motion is the core for progressive reform. The country should embrace evolving best practices. We must be seen to be moving forward, and this Motion has come at an opportune time when we are calling for reforms in many areas.
 
Mr Speaker, we are discussing issues around parliamentary oversight, but I want to move a point further. We have enough evidence now that calls for serious consideration of some of the issues that surround borrowing. 

Sir, at macro-level, this economy is quite buoyant. This was confirmed when the bond was floated in the United States of America. When we were looking for US$500 million, the subscription went up to US$12 billion. Rwanda, which is one of the best performers in Africa now, floated a bond of US$400 million and only got a subscription of US$3.5 billion. On paper, therefore, the Zambian economy is healthy. At macro-level, we have a reasonable bill of health. 

Mr Speaker, in the two years that the PF Government has been in office, the Budget has doubled. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Hamududu: Yes, it has doubled. At the time the MMD was leaving office, the Budget was at K22 trillion. It has doubled in the two years the PF has been in power.  

Mr Muntanga: Two years, yes. 

Mr Hamududu: I do not have a problem with that. I want to give an example of the Eurobond. We borrowed this money without being sure of where we wanted to apply it. We were not ready for it. Evidence is there that most of this money, which we are paying interest on, is still lying in the bank.  

Therefore, before we borrow, the hon. Minister of Finance and the Executive must come to this House and make clear the reasons for borrowing. This is part of parliamentary oversight. We must be sure that there is a compelling need to borrow before we actually do so. Further, if we agree to borrow, the money must go into secure and reproductive projects where we know that it will enhance the reproductive capacity of the economy so that we can be able to pay back the loans in future. It is, therefore, very important for the hon. Minister to come here so that we discuss the issue of borrowing. If that is agreed, then we can talk about other issues that follow. 

Sir, from the revenue collections by the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), it is obvious that, over the years, our domestic revenue-collection capacity has grown. If we are strict, we can run our Budget from domestic resources. It is possible that we can present a Budget today from locally-generated revenue. For instance, in this year’s Budget, the ZRA is envisaged to raise about K26 billion. We can run a Budget of K26 billion. That is not a problem. 

Mr Speaker, there is something we are not addressing in this country. We think that we lack money. I will call what exists in this country an implementation deficit. We think that because there is very little development in this country, then there is very little money we are approving for the social-development agenda. We will continue to borrow and not address the implementation deficit. We can do a lot with the available resources. We can do a lot even with a budget of K20 billion. 

I will give comparisons, courtesy of you, Mr Speaker, for allowing your Committee on Estimates to travel to Rwanda early this year. The budget of Rwanda, with a population of 12 million is about $3 billion while ours is over $6 billion. Rwanda is doing more with fewer resources. There are many people in a very small country that is poorly resourced. This country has many possibilities. Therefore, the issue is not that of a lack of money. Let us strengthen institutions that are tasked to bring about development. Let us put the money where it matters. Poor prioritisation will make us continue borrowing and thinking that there is no development because we do not have enough money. Let us address this deficit in implementation.

Mr Speaker, through this Motion, I would like to thank the donors, co-operating partners and other people of good will, on behalf of the people of Bweengwa, for cancelling our debt. The debt that Zambia had was unsustainable. It had one of the highest per capita debts in the world. A child inherited debt at conception and when he/she was born, there was debt waiting for him/her to repay. It took the international community to remove that yoke off our shoulders. It was a classical jubilee just to have the debt cancelled. If the debt was not cancelled, this country would have been in a coma by now. The country was resuscitated from a coma right in the intensive care unit. Therefore, we must ensure that we do not to go back there.

Mr Speaker, the need for borrowing must be discussed and understood. We are borrowing unnecessarily. At the moment, the resources we have, which are domestically generated, are enough to push the economic agenda.

Mr Speaker, the fiscal space that we have created from this debt cancellation and the fact that we are a democratic country and can change governments is good. At the moment, it is the PF in power, but it will be out in 2016.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Hamududu: When you change governments peacefully, the international community respects you. That is why there was that over subscription on our bond. This is the good thing about democracy. So, we need to change governments often.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: This Government, which has failed to address the issue of implementation, must be removed from power until we have a government that will cover this gap so that we do not borrow. We will do more with fewer resources. I tell you, Sir, that this next government, here, (Pointing at hon. United Party for National Development (UPND) Members), …

Prof. Luo: Which one?

Mr Hamududu: Yourself. You never thought that the PF was going to win the elections. You were MMD, but just jumped on the bandwagon.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

There should be no dialogue. Address the Chair.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, we shall give her a position at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH), but not in the Cabinet.

Mr Speaker, the assurance to the Zambian people is that, as the UPND, with the healthy micro-economic indicators that we have and the ability of the economy to generate enough taxes to finance our Budget, we will not commit the country to borrowing. We will do more with fewer resources.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Floor. I am very proud this afternoon to stand before you and see a lot of born-again politicians.

Mr Speaker, when we were on that side of the House, we called for these reforms. I am so shocked that the mover of the Motion is from the MMD …

Dr Kalila: Yes!

Mr Kambwili: … who, when they were on this side of the House, every time we spoke about reforms, they were against them. That is why I have called them born-again politicians.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, even their vice-president, Hon. Dr Kaingu, is busy saying, “Yes, yes,” and yet this is what they should have done when they were this side.

Hon. Governemnt Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, if, when you are out of Government, that is when you start to think, then Zambia will not go anywhere. It gives an impression that the colleagues in the MMD were just, mufulo bale bomfya.

Dr Kaingu: What is that?

Mr Kambwili: They were doing things deliberately. They knew that this is what they were supposed to do, but refused entirely to do it. Today, because they are on the other side of the House, they raise a Motion that they refused to support when they were in Government. This is hypocrisy of the worst kind. We are a very reasonable Government. I remember how it used to hurt us when we were that side. Whenever we brought a Motion to this House, it was shot down by them. They never passed any Motion that came from the Opposition regardless of whether or not it made sense. 

Hon. George Kunda, SC., may his soul rest in peace, used to stand here and say,” Mr Speaker, on this side of the House, we are not supporting this Motion.”

Mr Ng’onga: Shame, shame!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, now I am glad that you are born again and this country will go forward. This is a very progressive Motion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I think, by and large, you needed to support progressive Motions. I am sure wherever you are seated, you are ashamed of yourselves.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: I can forgive the people on the UNPD side because we spoke the same language then.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I wish we could go back in time so that you can do the right thing, but it is too late now. 

Mr Speaker, we, on this side of the House, progressively support this Motion.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, suffice it to say that I disagree with the notion that we are borrowing unnecessarily and that we are not being prudent in the management of the money that we borrow. This is not true. I mean, I do not think we are so stupid and useless …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kambwili: … that we cannot think about what we are doing.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

I am not sure about the use of the word ‘stupid’. Hon. Minister, can you withdraw it.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I withdraw it. I do not think that we are so reckless that we can go on borrowing without thinking about why we are borrowing. On the other hand, I will give the benefit of the doubt to the UPND because they are doing it in a progressive way. As for the MMD, they are only scared of the programmes that we are implementing. Now, they want to move the Motion quickly so that it looks like they are the ones who are thinking.

Like my hon. Friend said, this is reflected in the 2012 Action-Taken Report by the Committee on Estimates. This shows me that they do not read. If they read, they would not have come up with this Motion because we have already agreed to it. Mr Speaker, let us not waste time calling on people to debate because we are in agreement 100 per cent.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Minister, that is not your job. In light of what has been said, I think it is up to me to call on the last speaker before calling on the mover of the Motion.

May the Hon. Minister of Finance take the Floor.

 The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, in contributing to the debate on the Motion on legislation relating to external borrowing so as to provide parliamentary oversight on external debt contraction in line with contemporary good governance practices, let me start by reiterating that the Government acknowledges the need to amend legislation relating to both external and domestic debt contraction and management. 

Mr Speaker, before I proceed, let me remind the House that the main piece of legislation under which the Government contracts debt is the Loans and Guarantees Authorisation Act Cap 366 of the Laws of Zambia. However, …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for granting me this point of order. I was seated quietly, enjoying the debates when Hon. Kambwili unnecessarily mentioned my name and the party that I represent in this House …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Kaingu: … without him knowing that life is dynamic. Things change with time. This is the reason we have brought this Motion. Is he in order to disturb the thinking of a progressive party that is coming back into power?

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Is he in order to mention the name of a very quiet vice-president …

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: … of a progressive party that is coming back into power because his Government has failed …

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: … to introduce the windfall tax?
Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Kaingu: Is he in order to bring my name into disrepute?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

This is one exception where I allow a point of order after I had ruled that there would be no points of order. I hope this will be the last point of order.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, before I proceed, let me remind this House that the main piece of legislation under which the Government contracts debt is the Loans and Guarantees (Authorisation) Act Cap 366 of the Laws of Zambia. However, there are other laws that govern debt contraction and management in Zambia which include the following:

(i)    Ministry of Finance (Incorporation) Act, Cap 349;

(ii)    Public Finance Act, Cap 347;

(iii)    Bank of Zambia Act, Chapter 360;

(iv)    General Loan and Stock Act, Cap350;

(v)    Development Bond Act, Cap 379;

(vi)    Securities Act, Cap 354; 

(vii)    Treasury Bills Act, Cap 348;

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

It appears you have stopped listening. Can there be order in the House.

Can you continue, hon. Minister?

Mr Chikwanda: 

(viii)    Loan Act, Cap 351;

(ix)    Local Loans (Registered Stock and Securities) Act, Cap 353; and

(x)    Government Securities Act, Cap 357.

Sir, the Government has recognised weaknesses in the current legal framework governing institutional arrangements of public debt contraction and management. Currently, Parliament approves the Government borrowing limits through its involvement in the budgetary process. The institutional arrangement that exists between the Executive and the Legislature does not provide for an explicit role for Parliament in the contraction and management of public debt.

Mr Speaker, the law also lacks the clarity required to explain the Government’s debt management objective and purpose of utilisation of debt proceeds.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chikwanda: In a nutshell, Zambia’s legal and regulatory framework governing debt management is fragmented and not in line with the latest developments in international practice for prudential management of public debt.

Sir, in view of the weaknesses identified in the law, the Government has, since 2008, been implementing Debt Management Reforms. One of the key areas of these reforms has been the review of legislation governing public debt management in Zambia with a view to proposing amendments to the law that will enhance transparency, accountability and parliamentary oversight in debt management.

Mr Speaker, the main areas of focus in legal reform in external and domestic debt management are:

(a)    harmonising the various pieces of legislation relating to debt management into one debt management law;

(b)    reviewing the laws and regulations relative to sound practice to enhance legal control of and accountability for public debt management; and

(c)    strengthening legal and institutional frameworks to enhance co-ordination and parliamentary oversight of debt policies and strategies.

Mr Speaker, as part of the on-going reforms in debt management, the Government has planned to commence stakeholder consultations on legal reforms in 2014. In due course, the Government will bring the necessary legislation to this House to bring into effect the reforms that I have indicated above.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the people who have supported this Motion.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I ruled that I am not going to allow any more points of order.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: May you continue, hon. Member.

Mr Mwale: I wish to thank Hon. Mulusa, Hon. Bwalya, Hon. Hamududu and the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport for contributing to and supporting this Motion and wise Minister of Finance for accepting that we really need to do something about the Motion this time around because it is very crucial.

However, I also wish to remind Hon. Kambwili that yes, the MMD has to be ashamed for not having supported this Motion and, of course, the MMD is now born again. However, there is more we can say about how born again it is. We are aware that there is a change of mind on the Barotseland issue, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: … the 50 per cent plus 1 majority vote, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwale: Thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer! Tell them!

Mr Mwale: ... and the Public Order Act. There are a lot of issues in which we have seen a change of mind.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Question put and agreed to.

BUDGET 2014

(Debate resumed)

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, I thank you, once again, for this opportunity …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me this opportunity to raise a very serious constitutional point of order. 

Is the hon. Minister of Finance in order to include a tax called the Strategic Fuel Reserve Fund in the price of fuel when it has not been authorised by this House?

Mr Speaker, Article 114 of our Constitution, declares that: 

“Subject to the provisions of this Article, taxation shall not be imposed or altered except by or under an Act of Parliament.”

Sir, for every litre of fuel that is bought at the pump station, an illegal tax called the Strategic Fuel Reserve Fund is charged. This amount being paid by motorists amounts to a tax that is called by another name. As far as I can remember, no Bill has ever been brought to this House to effect this tax.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance must stop charging people this tax because it is illegal. If the hon. Minister wants to charge this tax, which I have no objection to, he must bring a Bill before this House for authorisation.

Mr Speaker, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu remained standing.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The order is on you, Hon. Mwiimbu. You are debating through your point of order. You should raise your point of order and then I will respond to it.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I just wanted to buttress the point that even the Auditor-General has, from as far back as 2005, raised this issue on several occasions. Is the Government in order to start abrogating Article 114 of the Constitution of Zambia by charging Zambians an illegal tax without bringing a Bill to this House to that effect?

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member raising that point of order should file a question of an urgent nature.

Hon. Member for Solwezi Central, you may continue.

Mr Mulusa: Mr Speaker, thank you for this opportunity to contribute to the Budget debate. Before I go further, may I pay tribute to my colleagues, Hon. Dr Kazonga from Vubwi Constituency and the former hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi West who are no longer in the House, for their immense contributions, particularly to the Budget debate. I learnt a lot from Hon. Dr Kazonga on how to probe the Yellow Book. He was very particular about figures up to the decimal point.

Sir, recently, I have been living like a condemned prisoner because I do not know when a pronouncement on my seat will come, and so, when you ask me to speak, I really appreciate it.

Mr Speaker, I started analysing the 2014 policy statement which was ably delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance, whom I honoured with the title of Sir Alexander Chikwanda, by first studying the first PF Budget. I then studied the second PF Budget and contrasted and compared the two with the 2014 Budget. The reason was that I needed to establish what the purpose of the Budget is. Secondly, I wanted to establish an ideological identity of the PF thinking and the strategic forward and backward linkages and how this Budget spoke back to our challenges. My findings were as follows:

Firstly, I picked up some very serious monitary and fiscal policy inconsistencies which I will come to at a later stage. I also noticed that the Budget was not in tandem with our core challenges. The Budget ignored the plight of the youth, women, the girl child and the disabled. It did not form any strategic linkages with the previous budgets, neither did it give updates on previous policy pronouncements.

Sir, I have said before, and I will say it again that there is a need for an independent and clear strategy to take this country forward. At national level, two factors should trigger a purposeful Annual Budget. One of them is an uncertain future, for which we should give a gift to posterity in the form of a secured, social and economic environment. In my maiden speech two years ago, I said:

“A gift we can give to posterity is that of the transformation of our country from a poor state characterised by a mono-product economy merely known for copper mining into a private sector-led upper middle-income country built around eight pillars.”

Sir, in this speech, I said these pillars were: 

(a)    suitable economic and social infrastructure in our country;

(b)    mining activities needed to have local beneficiation and wealth retention into our domestic economy;

(c)    growing our agriculture sector so that it can have a developed agro-processing industry;

(d)    tourism activities which need to have local beneficiation and wealth retention in our local societies;

(e)    enhanced participation by our citizens in the economic value chain of our base products;

(f)    developed financial services that should underwrite participation of our citizens in the economic activities within our borders and beyond; and

(g)    sustained strategies for youth revitalisation and a revitalised efficiencies in our education and health systems to produce generations of well-trained, healthy and competitive human capital and middle-class consumer groups to achieve the above seven factors.

Sir, each of the above pillars should be the seal of the Budget themes every year. In every Annual Budget, there is a need for commitment to achieving the above so as to demonstrate a way of maintaining a purposeful journey. The journey to a final destination of an upper middle-income country by 2030 should be clearly identified and defined. Every year, as we make the step towards achieving this, we should be able to see the progress that we are making.

Mr Speaker, the question is how suitable is this Budget? To answer the above, I subjected the Budget to a criterion of a set of ten requirements that we need for us to grow our economy sustainably and transform economic growth into economic development. This is because there is a fundamental difference between the two. We have had about fourteen years of consistent economic growth with nothing to show for it. This clearly shows that there is a problem.

Mr Speaker, I also noticed that this Budget had some profound statements. I think if we lived by these statements and actualised them, we could go far as a country. The first profound statement was what the hon. Minister said in paragraph 3, that reads as follows:

“As we prepare to celebrate our 50th Independence Anniversary in 2014, we are reminded that our greatest strength, as a country, is the peace in unity that have been the hallmark of our nation.”

Mr Speaker, we have seen, in the recent past, that the activities of the PF have not gone towards enhanced promotion of what the hon. Minister of Finance was talking about in terms of peace in unity. The two have not been promoted.

Sir, the second profound pronouncement was that the peace in unity we have enjoyed over the last half century has been by design. This means that we need to apply an effort for us to carry on as a nation, united in the peace and tranquillity that we have experienced.

Mr Speaker, we have noticed that there is absolutely no chance for a Zambian, who goes to school, finishes school and chooses the career of a diplomat, to see this hope actualised. The reason is simple. To be a diplomat in this country, you either need to be related to Mr Sata …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mulusa: … or be a close relative of key Cabinet Ministers in this Government. This is very unfortunate. We have seen …

Mr Namulambe: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to suggest that the diplomats in the Foreign Service are related to Mr Sata without mentioning any of those people?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Your time to debate will come.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Sir, as Members of Parliament, especially those that have been in previous Assemblies, we need to ensure that we gain some experience and exposure and not show our ignorance openly to the nation.

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: Sir, one of the requirements of debate in this House is that we do not mention the names of people that are not present. Therefore, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order, hon. Member for Solwezi Central!

Once a ruling has been made, I do not think you should come back to the same issue. You just proceed.

Mr Mulusa: Sir, the ruling was not adequate enough to deal with the punishment needed. So, the question is …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

I think that, for the first time, I have to show that I am in charge. Your debate has been curtailed.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I stand to debate the Budget Speech by Hon. Alexander Bwalya Chikwanda (ABC). I do not doubt Hon. Chikwanda’s experience in these matters. In the time of the UNIP, he was in charge of the Treasury and there was accelerated development in the country. I can see that this is the reason he has been able to double the Budget from K20 billion to K42 billion within two years.

Mr Speaker, however, what is worrying is that, at this time and age, our resources are limited. During that time, in 1974 or thereabout, the Zambian population was small. This time, the population of Zambia is more than double what it was then. In fact, it has trippled. What strict measures are we going to employ to raise revenues? We have already debated that if we are not careful, we are going to go back into a debt trap. I hope that with the hon. Minister’s experience, we will be careful not to go that route again.

Mr Speaker, I want to compare what has been allocated to agriculture with what the President and hon. Minister of Finance said. The mover of the Motion to support the hon. Minister of Finance’s Address said that this Government’s commitment to agriculture cannot be questioned. He is the Chairperson of the Committee on Agriculture and Lands. I want him to be very careful not to say this because there is a need to question it. 

Mr Speaker, agriculture cannot be undertaken theoretically, but rather practically. We were talking about achieving 6 per cent economic growth with a budget allocation to agriculture of only 7.2 per cent of the National Budget. The Maputo Declaration on Agriculture and Food Security states that 10 per cent of a country’s national budget should be allocated to agriculture. That is how you can achieve economic growth of 6 per cent. This is what is contained in the Comprehensive Africa Agriculture Development Programme (CAADP) proposals. What worries me is that the CAADP in Zambia has not been working. There is a desk at the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock which is not effective. Next year, the CAADP is clocking ten years of its existence, and yet Zambia has not achieved anything in terms of agriculture development under this programme.

Mr Speaker, the President’s wish is that we reach 17,000 hectares of irrigated land. However, so far, we have only managed to irrigate 4,500 hectares of the total 17,000 hectares that is available for irrigation. This is not surprising because only K80.9 million has been allocated in the Budget for irrigation. I would like to remind my good friend, the hon. Minister of Finance, that this is not enough. 

Mr Speaker, if we are all saying, including the President, that developing irrigation in this country is very important, we need to put more money in irrigation. We need to have a programme for building dams to store a lot of water everywhere, especially in areas that experience drought. This year, we are all talking about drought, but only one part of the country had a drought, which is the Southern Province. When the Southern Province has a drought, the whole country talks about it, including areas where there is rain. 

So, Sir, if we recognise that one part of the country causes us problems, we should address that problem. We need to formulate a programme to develop dams. Time and again, we have been fighting and quarreling over dams. I have been asking for the damming of the Mweemba and Kalomo rivers in Kalomo for a long time. I have been knocking on the doors of various hon. Ministers, including the hon. Ministers of Mines, Energy and Water Development. Alas, nothing has come out of my efforts. Improved irrigation will not happen on its own if we do not take the necessary steps. For me, agriculture is my way of life. Therefore, we should not play around with it.

Mr Speaker, at the moment, there is no D-compound fertiliser in Kalomo, Choma, Monze and Mazabuka.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Interruptions 

Mr Muntanga: Sir, it is the responsibility of the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock to address this matter. These four districts were selected for the pilot e-Voucher System. However, to date, fertiliser for the districts has not been delivered. The hon. Members on your right should first listen carefully before shouting, “Question!” There was no fertiliser delivered because the 25,000 metric tonnes of fertiliser imported for the districts was supposed to be distributed through the e-Voucher System. However, this has failed because the fertiliser has not been delivered. This system was supposed to start in July this year but, to date, it has not taken off. What does this mean? Kalomo is one of the highly productive areas in this country in terms of agriculture. It only competes with Petauke. However, the district has no fertiliser to date.

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I am not in a position to give points of order now.

The hon. Member can continue.

Mr Muntanga: Sir, there is no basal dressing fertiliser under the Farmer Input Support Programmes (FISP) for these highly-productive areas. What are we doing?

Mr Speaker, if the Government should talk about having a comparative advantage, it has to consider which areas grow the crop that is needed. Monze was known to be the capital of Zambia’s granary. This role has now shifted to Kalomo and Choma, and yet you have not given the two districts fertiliser under FISP. What are you doing? It means that you are already planning to have less production for next year. The fertiliser, which you are importing from Saudi Arabia, has arrived in Serenje. You are offloading it and delivering it to Luapula. What is the comparative advantage? You should understand that I am not saying that Luapula should not be given fertiliser. I am addressing the hon. Minister of Finance because he knows what I am talking about. I am aware that Hon. ABC was Minister of Agriculture in 1978. He knows that even with all the fertiliser that was given to Luapula, we could not produce over and above what Luapula needed. It was the Northern Province that produced a surplus. 

Mr Speaker, there is a need to seriously consider what I am talking about. The hon. Minister’s Speech was very clear. We should distribute national resources fairly. I get very worried because, in this House, we say that we should distribute resources equitably, and yet when we talk about mere Constituency Development (CDF), the situation is different. The President told us that he does not want to take this country back to a one-party State. He said this repeatedly. What he said and what is happening are totally different.

How do you explain the disbursement of the CDF by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing in the following order? 

Mr Speaker, fifty-six constituencies have received the CDF so far. Out of these, only four constituencies out of twenty-two on the Copperbelt have received it. The reason given for this is that it is an urban province. However, I also know that Kantanshi Constituency is an urban constituency. In the Central Province, out of fourteen constituencies, only two have received the CDF. In the Eastern Province, ten constituencies out of nineteen have been given the CDF. In Luapula Province thirteen constituencies out of fourteen have been give the CDF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Muntanga: You want to find out which constituency has been left out? It is only Chembe which is represented by a Member of Parliament from the MMD.  

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, in the Northern Province, ten out of thirteen constituencies have been given the CDF. Which are these three constituencies which have been left out?  It is Senga Hill, Mbala and Lubansenshi.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Muntanga: This shows you that the Government does not want to give the CDF to constituencies that do not belong to the PF. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ki masholi!

Mr Muntanga: In Muchinga Province, all the eight constituencies have been given the CDF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Muntanga: In the Southern Province, only two out of nineteen constituencies have been given the CDF.  Which ones are these two? 

Hon. UPND Member: Siamunene.

Mr Muntanga: Sir, it is Sinazongwe Constituency because the hon. Member of Parliament has shifted to their side. The next one is Pemba Constituency. We must be kind to the old lady, Mrs Mazoka. In the North-Western Province, out of twelve constituencies, three have received the CDF. In the Western Province, out of seventeen constituencies, only three got the CDF. 

Mr Speaker, this issue should be taken seriously. Do not divide this country by your actions. From your utterances, you mean well. If the hon. Minister did that without consulting, discipline her. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!{mospagebreak}

Mr Muntanga: Sir, you cannot allow a situation where we are reminded of the Rhodesian days when North-Western Rhodesia was not given funding while North-Eastern Rhodesia was funded. Even for the Eastern Province, I can tell you which constituencies where given and for a certain purpose. You gave only the ones that belong to you. You are telling us that you do not want to bring back the one-party State, but what are you doing to prove that? Since June this year, the Eastern Province has not been considered for CDF.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, you cannot do that.

Hon. Opposition Member: No!

Mr Muntanga: Sir, they cannot divide this country. Any hon. Minister who means well cannot be happy with the action of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing.

Hon. Opposition Members: No, not at all.

Mr Muntanga: What is the use of approving the CDF if you are only going to give it to constituencies that are represented by Members from the Ruling Party? What does that mean? 

Mr Livune: Look at them.

Mr Muntanga: Sir, the Western Province wants to secede because of a lack of development. Your actions are typical of the Federal System. You want the province to secede. You want the country to be broken up into pieces. If you are not involved, take disciplinary action. What the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing has done is wrong.

Mr Speaker, I propose that the next CDF goes directly to the districts from the Ministry of Finance because we know that the hon. Minister of Finance means well. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: All at once! 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, let us do away with this party-cadre behaviour of the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. This money is not for her to decide to disburse at her own will. The money that people have enjoyed in the constituency is the money that is meant for the constituencies.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

He is making a point. Please, give him the chance to do so.

Hon. MMD Member: You are very good, Sir. 

Mr Muntanga: Sir, I have noticed that the hon. Minister has increased the CDF to K1.4 million. You have increased it by K100,000. I was going to persuade you to raise it to K1.5 million. However, I can only do so on condition that you do not give it to an hon. Minister like the one in Local Government and Housing. 

Hon. UPND Member: No, you should not. 

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, if that is questionable, I would then be thinking that it is not a mistake of one Minister, but a programme of the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Ala, nimpiya shenu?

Mr Muntanga: Sir, if it is a programme to lead this country back to a one-party State, tell us. In any case, let us look at the areas where there is revenue collection. Check where ground rent and land rates are paid. What are we developing? What are we contributing as revenue? Do not push us into those areas. This is not a light matter for someone to say, “Question!” It is not.

Mr Speaker, if, today, the UPND came into power and decided to share the CDF amongst constituencies that are represented by its Members only, would that be alright? I would be the first to fight it. 

Hon. Government Member: Never!

Hon. Opposition Members: It is immoral, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Sir, I remember that when President Sata was campaigning, people were swearing that he would never be President. Even people who have joined you never believed in him. However, when he won, they praised him.  I want to tell you that you might say never about the UPND …

Mr Livune: Aleisa!

Mr Muntanga: … but, going by the way you behave, you are on your way out.

Mr Livune: That is right!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I find it difficult …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

I have always guided that you must address the Chair because the tendency to direct your debate at others invites them to respond, whereas, if you do it through the Chair, you are protected. 

You may continue.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I am passionate about this because what is happening with the CDF is also happening in the agriculture and education sectors. You will remember that at Independence, we had a single road from Zimba, running through to Mazabuka. It was a small track. At that time, it was said that we should develop areas that had no tarmac roads. There was no tarmac road from Kapiri Mposhi up north. There was no tarmac road from here to Mongu. There was no tarmac road to the Eastern Province. We understood that we had to hold the desire to extend the road to the Southern Province. We had to go where there was no tarmac road first. We understood that and that is what we did. 

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr, speaker, you can go and check how many district offices were built up north compared to the south. We were not comparing but, now, we are forced to compare because of your behaviour. You are not going to do the same thing again. You are talking about the lack of development in the Western Province. You are the ones getting the heat now just as it is the last weight that breaks the back of a camel. You are not really at fault for the lack of development, but the people are reacting now.

Sir, I have been to the Northern Province and I do not like the road from Luwingu to Kawambwa. In fact, there is no road there. This is understable. However, you should know how to distribute development equitably.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, a man had three children and two cobs of maize to share among them. He was very clever. Since one of the three children was his child, he knew that if he gave a full cob to his child, people would complain. Therefore, he gave the two children who were not his children a cob each and told them to share their cobs with the third child. 

Dr Kaingu: Give half.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, he did not even ask them to give half of it. He just told them to share with their friend. Each child had a responsibility of giving half of the cob to the child with none. In the end, the man’s child got a full cob. You should have been very clever by giving us something and, in your hidden activities, you could have given more to your areas, but not the way you have done things.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, they are not even ashamed of what they are doing.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, you should be open when doing doings so that everyone can see what you are doing. When we complain, you think that it is not a serious matter.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Muntanga: You are not ashamed of what you are doing. You should have self censorship …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Muntanga: … so that Zambia remains a unitary State.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, hon. Minister of Finance, what really matters is that as you make this Budget, the distribution and utilisation of the funds should  be carefully monitored. We will explore whether it is possible to move a Motion that will entail that the CDF goes directly to the districts. We know that the Permanent Secretary at the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is the controlling officer. However, if there is a Permanent Secretary who is partisan, he should be removed from the ministry.

Mr Mutale: That is jealousy.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I have nothing to say to such people …

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Muntanga: … because some of us come here to speak for our people. If you want to quarrel with me, it means you are trying to stop development from going to my constituency and I will not see any value in you. I am only here to speak for the people that elected me and, if your job is to stop me, I am afraid …

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, there was a time the Government refused to give me things and that is what made me join politics. When you start provoking my inner self, you should know that you are bringing out …

Hon. Government Member: That is what you are doing.

Mr Muntanga: … the politician in me and I am capable …

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, hon. Minister of Finance, we are happy with your hard work, old man. However, try to discipline the young men.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, allow me to look at them and decide whether they are really happy to be what they are and to sit there ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: … or whether what they are doing is correct. If they are sincere, they will agree with me that what they are doing is not right.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I thank you …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Muchima: ... for giving me this opportunity to debate the Motion on the 2014 Budget Address.

Mr Speaker, from the beginning, let me congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance …

Hon. Opposition Members: On what?

Mr Muchima: … on delivering his speech. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, he has a lot of experience. He has been in the MMD and UNIP governments. 

Mr Speaker, after praising the man I respect so much, I want to say that this Budget …

Hon. Opposition Members: Ehe!

Mr Muchima: … does not address the plight of the people of the North-Western Province and the people of Ikeleng’i. A budget is a plan and it shows the direction to be taken or what should be done. Anything that you do not understand is noise. If you speak Lozi and another person does not understand it, Lozi will be noise to him. I have read this document fully.

Mr Ndalamei: It is total noise.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the document says that it wants to uplift the standard of living of the people. It has talked about the GDP which has grown. It has talked about things which are so flowery and nice in a Christian nation. However, when it comes to actualities, there is something missing. I wonder what is so pro-poor about this Budget. Where are the people of Ikeleng’i represented in this Budget? Why should they celebrate this Budget? My priority is to talk about the North-Western Province and Ikeleng’i in particular. The reason is simple. It is because the people elected me. I did not come here by mistake, but the people voted for me to come and speak for them.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, when sharing the national cake, we are not supposed to beg from anybody because …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Muchima: … it is our money and we deserve it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, this money comes from every corner of Zambia. Unfortunately, there is a tendency to segregate. Ikeleng’i is on the border with Angola. There is an international road called T5. I wanted the Budget to address the real issues affecting the people. What do the people of Ikeleng’i want? The hon. Minister of Finance should have asked us that question. We would have told him the priorities of the people of Ikeleng’i and they would have been reflected in the Budget. Even just one of those priorities would have been listed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, a major pronouncement for Ikeleng’i should have come out of this Budget. However, I find that there is completely nothing. It is, therefore, difficult for me to support it. The figures are good. However, I want to see how this Budget will address the issues which were raised in 2013. How has the 2013 Budget performed and what have we achieved from it? I have observed that this Budget is like someone throwing a lot of sand on an anthill. This is because it has programmes which are designed to benefit areas where the PF got the most votes and not where the money is coming from.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the North-Western Province has a lot of economic potential and it is contributing to the GDP of the country. However, what is happening in the North-Western Province is like a man who has a field of maize and other people keep coming to harvest the maize, while his children die of hunger. What are you doing about this?

Mr Ndalamei: It is very bad.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, this is a democracy. The people of the North-Western Province are not only Lunda, Kaonde or Luvale, ...

Mr Chipungu: There are even Chokwes.

Mr Muchima: ... but they are also mixed. There are even soldiers. The people who drive on the T5 Road are not only Lunda, but there are also people from other places who go to Angola for business.

Hon. Opposition Member: The Chinese are there.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the road is in a terrible state. We have been told that it has been included in the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. That road project is rhetoric to me. Today, in this Parliament, we have heard about a study on the road whose contract has just been signed and the work will take twelve months. This is October so, this means that the study will be completed in 2014. The contract maybe signed in 2015 and the work will only start in 2016. What will the PF have done for the people in five years?

Hon. Opposition Member: Zero.

Mr Mwenya: Uletasha.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, nothing, because they are still talking about paper work. They should have said that they are putting money in the Budget for the study only …

Mr Mwenya: On a point of order.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I will not grant you permission to raise that point of order.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Speaker: Order!

This is because I heard you say, “Uletasha.”

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Now, you want to hide behind a point of order. You will not have it. 

Hon. Muchima, you may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, this is our constitutional right, and it is not by default that we are in a democratic nation. The MMD was removed from power because people thought they had overstayed and that they were not doing their best. However, we expected the PF to do better than the MMD.

Sir, when the MMD was in power, the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare then used to share hammer mills equally but, today, …

Mr Sikazwe (pointing at Hon. Muchima): Question!

Mr Muchima: Question? You were not there. You have a problem in …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ignore him and address the Chair.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, Hon. Sikazwe has a problem of water in Mpulungu, and yet he lives near water …

Mr Sikazwe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No points of order.

Please, continue.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, we need money to develop areas with potential. During the UNIP days, the province had no economic value and so, there was no need of constructing a road …

Mr Sikazwe: On point of order, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! 

Mr Mwale: Iwe, nkalapansi!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Mr Deputy Speaker: You know, once you start dialoging, this is what happens. I saw the two of you pointing at each other. I thought I should keep quiet, but then you have exposed yourself by asking for a point of order. 

Please, continue, hon. Member.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I am simply begging the hon. Minister to have a good heart, but he cannot do things alone. 

Hon. Government Members: But this is money.

Mr Muchima: This is our money, especially that a huge part of it is generated from the North-Western Province. During the UNIP days, the Government used to say that there was nothing in the North-Western Province but, today, the province has economic value. In 1974, when my old man, Hon. Chikwanda, was the hon. Minister of Finance, he allocated K1 million in his Budget, for the construction of a tarmac road from Solwezi to Jimbe in Ikeleng’I, but it ended up in Mwinilunga. To date, that road is still gravel, and yet, it is a road which connects Zambia to other countries.

Mr Sikazwe: Nimwemwalipo.

Mr Muchima: Do not say nimwemwalipo. The thing is you are there now. When you marry a woman, you do not look at who was the former husband. At least, we created a district and, if the MMD was still in Government, the tarmac road would have reached Ikeleng’i.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Dr Chikusu: On a point of order, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

 A point of order is raised.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chikusu: Mr Speaker, I rarely rise on points of order, but I am compelled to do so this time. Is the hon. Member who is debating in order to be so improperly dressed that his ‘thing’ is moving? 

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Why do you raise points of order that make the Chair also laugh?

May the hon. Member, please, continue.

Mr Muchima (tucking in his shirt): I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I am trying to emphasise that we do not need sympathy. We are demanding for our rights. We are entitled to the national cake. That is why we are in this House. We are here to tell you to be fair.

As we are talking about the Budget today, we should have been strategising. We should look at the areas which have economic value and which can add to the GDP. What value are we talking about? Ikeleng’i is a constituency where the source of the Zambezi River is, and that is a tourist attraction. This is where the road I am talking about passes through. So, Ikeleng’i should be as developed as Livingstone. I hope the United Nations (UN) can think of holding the United Nation World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) meeting in Angola so that Ikeleng’i is also developed for it to add value to our economy. This road, which connects Zambia to Angola, has economic value and can bring income to the nation.

The rivers in Ikeleng’i can be used to generate power and to help bring stability in the distribution of electricity. I am happy with the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development, Mr Yaluma. He thinks positively about this issue. Therefore, give him authority to connect the entire North-Western Province, which has been spending a lot of money on diesel to generate power, to the national grid.

Mr Speaker, I would like to advise the Government to reduce ministerial portfolios so that we save money. Of course, not all borrowing is bad. If we are borrowing for infrastructure development, it is alright. The country will prosper in the long-term if we do not borrow for consumption.

Mr Speaker, I heard somebody talking about the Social Cash Transfer Scheme. It was brought by the MMD and we left it. I was in that ministry then and I know about it. However, it is used for consumption and will not enhance value to this economy, and yet somebody was so proud about it. We want it in all places because it will help those who are incapacitated. 

Sir, there are issues that need to be dealt with at the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). The FRA is a strategic institution. It should have been operating efficiently, especially now that we have a lawyer, Mr Kafalaula, there. Though he is disabled, he is an upright man. However, he cannot run the institution properly because of political interference. 

Mr Speaker, look at the way board members have been appointed. Are these boards efficient enough? Are the members qualified? The problem is that members of boards are not qualified. You are picking people because they helped you to come to power or they are cadres. We are destroying the FRA. The GDP we are talking about is all about the provision of goods and services. We want Members of boards who add value to institutions and not the cadres you are appointing to boards. The boards meet every day and their allowances are huge. They have now taken over the executive powers and are running institutions as if they are the managing directors. They are in offices every day, disturbing the people who are running the institutions. 

Sir, board members should be professionals. I would like to urge my colleagues to leave this work to the chief executive officers. The FRA is a big institution. Let them look at the issue of policy. I suggest that boards should be meeting once or twice in three months and not on a daily basis.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Muchima: They meet on a daily basis. Some of them do not even qualify to be members of boards according to the law. They do not even understand why they are on those boards. They are only interested in getting allowances. We cannot prosper like this because there is no value in what we are doing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Muchima: Sir, when we talk about feeder roads, the person who is most affected is the one in rural areas. The majority of hon. Members in this House come from rural areas, apart from Hon. Dr Chikusu who comes from Katuba. Most of us are from far-flung rural areas. Whether we are in the Ruling Party or Opposition, we need feeder roads in rural areas. Today, you are smiling. We used to smile broader than that.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: Some of you will serve for one term only, if you are not careful. These seats are busy chewing you up. I would like to advise my colleagues to support what we are saying here because we are speaking on their behalf.

Sir, in terms of distribution of fertiliser, there is not a single bag of fertiliser in Ikeleng’i at the moment, and yet we are being given promises here.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about the CDF which hon. Muntanga talked about. The CDF worked very well during the tenure of the MMD …

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: … but, today, you have attached strings to it. It goes to the districts where power has been given to officers who confuse things. If your people are tampering with this money, then they should be arrested. We now have tenders in places where we did not have tenders before. They are spending six months on the tenders. 

Sir, money which was going to the community is now going to individuals. You pick individuals with exaggerated prices who connive with the officers. What was wrong with the way things used to be done? A house that used to be built for K30 million to K40 million is being built at K160 million and when we talk, you say that we are condemning you. That is not devolving power.

Sir, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing has been given a lot of power. Where is the decentralisation there?

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: We should decide what to do with that money, but now it is controlled in Lusaka. This should be checked and revised.

Mr Speaker, we need energy and infrastructure in the North-Western Province. We need to connect electricity in Chembe which is a very sensitive border. The hon. Minister of Transport Works, Supply and Communications needs to travel on those roads which you have talked about. We need to go there together, especially that you are married to someone from the North-Western Province. Where would those children of yours …

Laughter 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Please, address the Chair.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I am simply reminding some of my colleagues who are in the Executive that they should not forget about their marriages. They are just worrying about themselves and not what will happen to their children tomorrow.

Mr Speaker, I am very grateful that the hon. Minister talked about the cannery. He remembered it and has invited me to discuss it. There is no need for us to find someone from South Africa to come and build Arcades …

Mr Musenge: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Musenge: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Ikeleng’i who is lamenting so passionately the plight of the North-Western Province, was in the former Government and is raising issues on the Floor of the House that are historical while he failed to …

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is the point of order?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Musenge: Is the hon. Member in order not to first apologise to the nation for the money that was buried instead of bringing development to the areas that he is talking about …

Interruptions

Mr Musenge: … and blaming this Government for failing to take development to those areas? Is he in order, Sir?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: There will come an opportunity for you to rebut that, if you please.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I was saying that there is no need for a South African to come and put up Manda Hill or Arcades shopping malls. What we need is support from the Government. We need the Government to support us, businessmen, because we can put up a cannery in Mwinilunga. It was not a Zambian who came all the way from South Africa to put up Manda Hill and Arcades shopping malls. However, the investor used the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA) and taxpayers’ money to build them and the money that is being made is externalised. Our plea is for us to be assisted.

Sir, the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) is highly political and you cannot borrow money unless you are a PF cadre. We need to be assisted to put up a cannery in Ikeleng’i, Mwinilunga. It will contribute to the Treasury. We should look at the projects and programmes that can add value to the country. 

Mr Speaker, I am sure that you are listening. You are killing this country by not taking development to areas that are represented by Members of Parliament from the Opposition. This gap that will be caused by the suspension of recruitment will be difficult to fill. It is a very painful decision that has been made.

Mr Speaker, I know that the Government is under pressure, but it needs to be flexible on such issues. It is under pressure because it over promised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: I wonder why certain programmes are implemented once pronounced even with no study undertaken while in other areas, you say that you are waiting for a study. Five years is too short a time for you to concentrate on studies. What we want is actual implementation. You should have done an environmental scan to see what is there for you to do. 

Sir, the other day, I was told that dip tanks cannot be constructed in the North-Western Province because there are no diseases, but we need to increase the numbers of animals. All they do is contradict themselves when they talk. 

Mr Speaker, we would like these issues to be looked at seriously. Give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this chance to debate. I only have one issue to discuss.

Hon. Opposition Members: CDF.

Mr Mooya: Due to popular demand, I will start with the CDF.

Laughter 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: Heartbreak …

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes!

Mr Mooya: I adopt Hon. Muntanga’s words are mine. Let us avoid discrimination. The CDF was started by the MMD and it was given without discrimination. All the 150 constituencies got the CDF at the same time and we would like that to continue. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: There should not be any discrimination at all.

Mr Speaker, the second issue is with regard to the point of order raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mandevu who is not here, unfortunately. I wanted her to be here and I would have asked her to get a pen and paper to take down what I am going to say.

Hon. Opposition Members: I will write it down and tell her.

Mr Mooya: It was a point of order against Hon. Hamududu regarding the imbalance that is there in giving contracts. I talked about that imbalance from the technical point of view earlier on and Hon. Hamududu said the same thing from an economist’s point of view. We are getting a lot of loans in order to develop infrastructure, but who is getting that money? It is going back to Europe, China and so on and so forth. That is the point that he was trying to put across.

Sir, let me reinforce that statement once more. There are 4,852 contractors. 

Ms Lubezhi: Is that so?

Mr Mooya: I hope the hon. Member for Mandevu can hear me now. There are 4,852 contractors registered in Zambia. Out of that number, only 222 are foreign while the Zambian contractors amount to 4,630. However, in terms of the value of the work, the 222 foreigners get about 95 per cent. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame.

Mr Mooya: I added all these …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours. 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was trying to correct the impression given by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mandevu who said that Zambian contractors are benefiting from the award of contractors. Zambian contractors are not benefiting at all. I gave the number of contractors that are registered in Zambia. There are 4,852 registered contractors in Zambia. Out of these, only 222 are foreign firms. The remaining 4,630 are local firms. In terms of the value of the works, the foreign contractors are getting about 95 per cent …

Ms Imenda: Mawe!

Mr Mooya: … while the Zambian contractors are getting 5 per cent. How do you grow the economy that way? That is exactly what Hon. Hamududu was saying, but somebody rose up and said that the Zambian contractors have their share. I do not agree with that. 

Mr Speaker, I looked at the infrastructure to be developed in this speech. I will not mention all of it, but let me just pick a few. For example, for Infrastructure in New Districts, we have K550 million, Railway Rehabilitation/Capitalisation has an allocation of K339.8 million while Roads Infrastructure has K5,126.9 million.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

May you, please, consult less loudly. Bear in mind that after the Back Benchers have debated, it will be your turn to respond. If you do not pay attention, you will end up beating about the bush when responding. So, please, listen attentively when people are making contributions. 

Continue, hon. Member of Parliament. 

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, I want somebody to challenge me on what I am talking about.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, when I added these figures up, the total came to almost K8,000 million worth of the contracts. Ninety-five per cent of K8,000 million is about K7,600 million. This is the money that the foreign firms get out of Zambia. It is not the whole lot, but the profit part of it is quite substantial while the Zambians are only given K400 million to share. I have already stated that there are 4,630 foreign firms. 

Mr Speaker, when I made a contribution to the President’s Speech, I urged the Government to do something about this. I remember I likened the scenario to baby Moses who was dumped, but served later on. I even went to the extreme of likening the scenario to the Cable News Network (CNN) Award Winning Picture of a vulture and a baby. We should not be in that second scenario at all. From the way I look at things, such an “I-do-not-care attitude” may land us in that trap. It is better to treat our contractors the way baby Moses was treated. He was rescued. Therefore, let us rescue our contractors. Having said that, what is the way forward? I got these figures I am mentioning from the experts. I am also, a qualified engineer. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, I do not want to, kulibonesha, but I want to state the facts as they are. It breaks my heart …

The Deputy Chairperson: What does, kulibonesha mean?

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, it means showing off. 

It breaks my heart when I hear people praise foreign firms and condemn Zambian contractors. They say that the workmanship is bad but, to every problem, I believe that there is a solution. We should have found solutions to this problem ten years ago when the National Council for Construction (NCC) Act was brought to Parliament to give the power to regulate the contractors. That is the time when we were supposed to find solutions to this problem but, ten years later, we have not done anything about it. The way forward is that we should have easy access to funds from banks. Our counterparts, the Chinese, find it easy because all they have to do is produce a letter to the Bank of China along Longolongo Road as proof of thier having been awarded a contract and they can borrow whatever amount they want to borrow. Zambian contractors do not have such facilities. 

Mr Speaker, the Construction Finance Initiative (CFI) is a very good initiative. Hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications, this should be implemented. I have been told by the contractors that nothing has materialised so far. For those who do not understand this CFI, it is the process of empowering local contractors. There were about five to six banks that came together with the National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) and Road Development Agency (RDA) so that local contractors could borrow money and buy the equipment for construction because it is very expensive. That is a brilliant idea but, to date, no contractor has benefited from this initiative. We should have implemented it ten years ago when we gave power to the NCC.  

Mr Speaker, we must make sure that once contractors have access to equipment, they get contracts in order to pay back the loans they got to acquire equipment. They must be given a guarantee. At the moment, the 20 per cent is not law. So, it cannot be enforced. Let us make it law so that every foreign contractor adheres to it. What is happening, in some instances, is that some of the Chinese are refusing to subcontract because we have not made it law. There is an urgent need to make it law.

Sir, with regard to procurement entities, a lot needs to be done about this issue. Although we have integrity committees such as the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), Zambia Police Force and the Office of the President (OP), corruption has continued. Why has it continued? It is because these institutions are not conversant with technical work. The people doing the evaluations like the engineers and the others are conversant with their work and can conceal certain information in such a way that the ACC, DEC, Zambia Police Force and OP cannot follow. So, there is a need to train these institutions so that they can stop the corruption.

Mr Speaker, there is a lot of flouting of the law in the construction industry. This was not there during my time, but it is a common trend now.

Mr Muntanga: Amu bambile.

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, the unqualified contractors get contracts, give them to the foreigners and, they get a commission in return. The result is that there is a lot of poor workmanship. We should stop this flouting of the law. I hear this is a common trend and the cadres are the ones doing it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: I am not talking about the PF cadres alone.

Hon. Opposition Members: It is the PF cadres.

Interruptions

Mr Mooya: This trend started a long time ago. So, please, let us find a solution to it.

Mr Speaker, we need to support national associations in the same way that we supported the NCC at its conception. The hon. Minister was there from 2001 to 2006 and we pumped a lot of money into this council.

Mr Livune: Which Minister?

Mr Mooya: Hon. Mukanga.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, we helped the NCC to grow roots. So, let us do the same to these two associations, namely the Association for Building and Civil Engineering Contractors (ABCEC) and the National Association for Medium and Small-Scale Contractors (NAMSSC). The majority of Zambian contractors are in the latter association. There are over 4,000 contractors in this association and that is what my worry is. These contractors are in Grades 4, 5 and 6. There is a need to find a solution to this issue.

Mr Speaker, once more, I am appealing to the hon. Members in the Government, …

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: … some of whom were with us in the Opposition for ten years, to rescue the Zambian contractors. If I may use the expression, “let us baby Moses them”, meaning that we should rescue them so that the money which is being externalised can be utilised in Zambia in order to grow the economy. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, you can talk about the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, Pave Lusaka 400 km Road Projects, but there is no money to implement these projects because the money has been externalised. So, how do you grow the economy and reduce poverty? Hon. Hamududu was right when he said that the implementation of some projects should have waited. There is a need to build capacity and engage the local contractors first.

Mr Speaker, if they will not do that, then let me tell my friends who are on the other side, – I am saying friends because we were together for ten years – that we are going to do it.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, the UPND is going to do it.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, that is going to be our priority. I am speaking as a qualified civil engineer …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: … and as one who was behind the establishment of the NCC. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, I was the interim secretary before Dr Mashaba came in. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, it was run by the then Ministry of Works and Supply. We formed that council and knew what we wanted. So, if the Government will not do what I have said, when 2016 comes, …

Hon. Opposition Members: We shall do it.

Mr Mooya: … we shall do it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I want to thank you most sincerely for according me the opportunity to make comments on the Budget Speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Sir, first of all, I would like to begin my debate, as is customary in this House, by congratulating the hon. Members who recently joined us. I hope that they will be able to last until 2016. I am saying so because we have seen some hon. Members come in and decide to expel themselves before 2016. So, I hope that that this will not happen. I welcome them and look forward to working with them.

Mr Speaker, I stand here on behalf of the people of Lukulu. I will try to be as brief as I can, since I realise that other hon. Members also want to contribute to the debate on this important Motion. My debate is centered on four themes. Thereafter, I will give what the people of Lukulu consider to be policy alternatives for the hon. Minister to consider.

Sir, some hon. Members have bemoaned the apparent regionalism which appears to exist in the way development is being delivered. I have noticed that all the Budget Speeches that have been given, this being the third one, appear to revolve around the themes of inclusiveness, social justice, unity and peace. However, we, the people of Lukulu, beg to disagree with these themes.

Mr Speaker, it is true that there is a connection between the structure of every governing authority with development. If many people that constitute the governing authority are perceived to come from one particular area, it, therefore, naturally follows that, in most cases, there is a propensity for development to be skewed towards those areas. However, it should not be like that. Otherwise, I do not think that the late President Mwanawasa would have built the Chembe Bridge and the Mongu/Kalabo Road, which has been hailed as the most expensive.

Interruptions

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, the construction of the Mongu/Kalabo Road started during our time and our colleagues, who are on the other side of the House, opposed it fiercely. They accused Hon. Dr Musokotwane of being a tribalist and some of them even walked out of the House in protest. This, I remember vividly.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Tell them.

Dr Kalila: Sir, all I am saying, like my colleagues before me, is that national resources are best applied equitably. Is it not ironic that for the first time since Independence, the people of the Western Province are under-represented at the highest policy-making organ of this land? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: The people of the North-Western Province have no representation. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: Sir, looking at the amount of resources that are generated from these provinces, I do not think that the people chose it to be that way. Are you telling me that you did not have people in the PF working with you who come from the Western or North-Western provinces? They are many. What we are seeing, however, is the complete opposite. 

Sir, those of us who come from Lukulu have raised an issue on the Floor of this House. We are praying to our God, who answers prayer, gives liberally and who does not fail, to move the hon. Minister of Finance to reconsider some of the allocations in this year’s Budget. My colleague from Lukulu West bemoaned the fact that the promise made to us on the Floor of this House, at various times, to work on the Katunda/Watopa/Lukulu Road, has not been fulfilled. We do not know what has happened. The road has disappeared from the Yellow Book when assurances were given on the Floor of this House by His Honour the Vice-President that work on this road would commence in 2014.

We were told that in 2013, techno-economic feasibility studies would be carried out and that by 2014, tender processes would be completed. In fact, we were told that contracts had already been awarded. Unfortunately, works still have not commenced. This is why we are on our knees asking God to move the hon. Minister of Finance to put back this road in the Yellow Book so that the promise, which was made on the Floor of this House, can be fulfilled. 

Sir, even with the 650 clinics which our friends are talking about, we have not been so lucky. We do not know what wrong we have done. Whereas every other district is getting six, eight or ten clinics, we are only getting three. Personally, as Member of Parliament, I have done all I can, but to no avail. We are at the tail end of the allocations that are going on. 

Sir, with the communication towers that everyone else is talking about, we, the people of Lukulu, have not been as lucky. I am sure that our colleagues who went there for the by-elections will attest to the fact that one can only speak on the cellar phone when at the Boma. I am, however, aware that a presentation has been made and towers are being erected in the chiefdoms. As you may be aware, our chiefdom, which already has a tower, is in the Boma. We have already appealed to the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications and he has promised to do something about the matter. I want to reiterate my appeal that you must consider the people of Lukulu in the distribution of the national cake. 

Mr Speaker, in the 2014 Budget, there is an allocation for the establishment of forestries in the country. One-and-a-half million seedlings have been distributed in eleven centres around the country. I am sure that everyone knows that most of the timber in this country comes from the Lukulu/Kaoma Corridor. However, it is a sad state of affairs how much this timber resource has been depleted. We hope that efforts will be made to reverse the situation. Last time, we complained vehemently about this wanton depletion of our resources and we saw a moratorium being placed on timber production. However, this ban only lasted a year. Now the ban has been lifted and there are truckloads of timber coming from this area which, in a few years’ time, will be a desert. We hope that the ministry responsible will do something about this. 

Sir, many hon. Members have already talked about the CDF. However, I have something to add. We were given an excuse that the late disbursement of the funds is as a result of poor absorption capacity and late submission of returns. This is not true.

Sir, if truly there are difficulties in absorption, this is the more reason it should be released in the first quarter of the year to allow councils and all the people to undertake activities. If the CDF comes in the last three weeks of December, then, naturally, you expect the councils, most of which are poorly capacitated, to do a poor job. It is only K210 million out of a Budget of K42 billion, equivalent to 0.5 per cent. It is not too huge an amount to disburse in the first quarter of the year. 

As a policy alternative, I would like to propose that, perhaps, the CDF, beginning the next fiscal year, be one of the first items to be dealt with by this House before we go to other issues to avoid the situation in which we have found ourselves in this year. I was very touched when Hon. Muntanga was debating. I did not realise the scale of political nepotism that is being practiced by some of our colleagues which should not be allowed. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, we speak for you also but, perhaps, for you, things are different. 

Laughter 

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I note that the hon. Minister of Finance proposes to spend K42 billion. I notice that there has been a significant increase of K10 billion from the last proposal. At the same time, we are already running a Budget deficit of 8.5 per cent when we put the benchmark at 4.5 per cent. 

In other words, we are spending money which we do not have. We are living beyond our means. When we live beyond our means, it naturally follows that we must do something to address the deficit. I expected the hon. Minister of Finance to institute more spending cuts. When a person discovers that he/she does not have much money, and is living on borrowed money or running into a deficit, he/she must control his/her spending. 

I have only seen two measures here and already one is questionable. One measure is obviously to put a moratorium on salary increments or have a wage freeze. This is a positive step as far as spending is concerned. However, the other measure, which is the deferment of recruitment for two years, is already under contention. Outside these two measures, I have not seen any other measures to control costs. 

Therefore, Sir, to expect that we will spend K42 billion, in the absence of further spending cuts, is a toll order. What will happen is that we will have to borrow eventually. As I discovered from the book which Hon. Dr. Kaingu lent me entitled, You will Remember Me, I am sure we will be talking of an even higher Budget deficit next year. 

Mr Speaker, in view of this Budget deficit, I just wanted to propose one or two things which many governments, including this one, have failed to do. If we fail to collect more revenue or keep borrowing because we cannot generate enough resources, we should look at where most of our resources come from, and that is income tax. Our mines do not contribute more than 4 per cent of the revenues that we get as a Government. The total contribution from our mines towards taxes is scandalous. I fail to appreciate why everybody else is not brave enough to insist that if mining is truly our most-prized asset; if mining is truly responsible for where our economy is, why are we all scared of trying to get more money from there?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, if we can only push slightly from the 3.7 or 4 per cent which we are collecting to somewhere around 10 or 15 per cent, this way, I am sure we will put a lot of money in our coffers to the extent that we may not need to borrow like we are doing at the moment. This moratorium which we are putting on recruitment will become a very unpopular move, and will create some despondency among the workers.

Mr Speaker, do you realise that the mineral royalty tax contributes to our taxes about 8 per cent. Unfortunately, the same 8 per cent we collect from the mines is deducted when the expenses are computed. So, whereas we collect the mineral royalty tax, it is given back to the mines. In the end, we have nothing, and yet we keep spending more, borrowing more when there is money lying around which we are failing to collect. Why is it like that? That is one of the issues that came to mind while the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport was saying that we ought to be ashamed because I also remember that our colleagues made so much noise about the need for us to collect windfall tax.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, Hear!

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I am sure they also ought to be ashamed of themselves.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Mpukunya matobo.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, today, they have failed to do the same. We should understand that circumstances can change, but I think that we are missing an opportunity to collect more money through some of these measures. 

As indicated, because of time, I will cut my debate short.

Ms Lubezhi: Agriculture.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, let me just suggest what I consider the hon. Minister of Finance should look at as a matter of urgency. I think that we need to look at the issue of mineral royalty tax. We need to bring legislation to this House to ensure that it is no longer tax deductable so that we put more money in our coffers.

Secondly, I feel that we need to reform our mining taxation system. I understand that a lot is being done to ensure that capacity is built both at the ZRA and the Ministry of Mines, Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection to ensure that the production aspect of our copper, in terms of the cost and everything else, is reviewed. I think this will not be achieved for the simple reason that mining is a very sophisticated undertaking. In that respect, …

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I apologise to the hon. Member who is debating very well. I am getting concerned, looking at the time remaining for him to debate. He only has two minutes forty-one seconds to go. Is he in order to be so selective in his debate that he cannot mention that the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has collapsed? 

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that, the hon. Member debating is in order because he still has two minutes forty-one seconds more.

Please, continue.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I thank you. I just want to give a few policy alternatives to the hon. Minister responsible. I feel that you will need to expedite this Mining Taxation Reform that you are carrying out. I would like to propose that whatever tax you are coming up with, it is best if you put it as a stand-alone tax like it is in Chile where there is a Chilean Copper Commission which specifically looks at all these technical issues. I think to leave it to the ministry and the ZRA will not enable you to achieve your good intentions. This is one area that we should look at.

Mr Speaker, may I suggest to the hon. Minister that you should broaden political representation at all levels of decision making. It is important that all of us begin to partake in the way we allocate these resources somehow. I know it is not within our ambit, but our responsibility is to throw it to you because I know that you can do something about it.

Lastly, Sir, I would like to propose that even as you are looking at the reforms in our budgetary process, it is important that you also look at the question of fiscal responsibility. I think we should not leave it entirely to the Executive like many colleagues said when we were looking at the earlier Motion. We should not only concentrate on the processes that go with budgeting, but also, as Members of Parliament and other players, we should begin to have a say in the way the resources of our country are managed. To this effect, I would like to propose that, if it were possible, we could come up with a Fiscal Responsibility and Budget Management Act. We should not leave this to you alone but, collectively, we can begin to look at resource allocation in a more equitable and fair manner and avoid situations such as those the hon. Members have complained about.

Mr Speaker, like I said earlier, today, Hon. Dr Kaingu gave me a book to read titled, You will Remember Me. 

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: I was waiting for you to lay that book on the table.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I asked a question relating to the disagreement between the hon. Minister of Finance and the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. I made an effort to get the following extract: 

“The hon. Minister of Community Development: ‘Mr Speaker, the recruitment moratorium does not include health personnel, education and other essential workers. Sir, be rest assured that recruitment of health personnel will continue this year, next year and the years to come as said by the Deputy Minister.’” 

I was asking that the hon. Minister did not indicate that the Health and Education sectors were exempted? Are these two hon. Ministers in order to bring contradicting statements to this House? I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the perceived contradiction was adequately cleared in the ministerial statement that was given this afternoon by the hon. Minister of Finance.

May the hon. Member, please, continue.

Mr Miyutu: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is quite pleasing to live in a rural area.

Mr Mufalali: Bulela hande!

Mr Miyutu: It is very pleasing and interesting because we observe tradition and culture there.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Miyutu: We observe and keep the rules which maintain our clans and families. Unfortunately, some people want to write about us in the rural areas. Governments have been there from 1964, and this is 2013.

The 2014 Budget stands at K42.8 billion. From my own observation, year after year, the Budget keeps rising, but the standard of living in rural areas like Kalabo keeps falling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyanda: And Kazungula.

Mr Miyutu: Now, the questions that come to mind are: What has gone wrong?

Mr Mufalali: It is the PF Government.

Mr Miyutu: Is it the shortage of money or labour? The answer is money is available, but it is not applied equitably.

Sir, allow me to talk about water and sanitation which appears on page 8 of the Budget Speech. For us in Kalabo, this is the most critical issue.

In 2012, the Budget showed that 3,000 boreholes were going to be sunk. The Government assured the people of Kalabo, Senanga, …

Mr Sing’ombe: Dundumwezi.

Mr Miyutu: … and Chadiza that boreholes would be sunk. We waited eagerly for those boreholes to be sunk, but they have not been sunk. 

Hon. Opposition Member: Hau!

Mr Miyutu: When we made an estimate of how many boreholes each constituency should get, the number came to about twenty, taking into consideration that every constituency has boreholes sunk, including the urban constituencies. Unfortunately, we have not seen the boreholes.

The 2013 Budget showed that 2,500 boreholes were to be sunk. This is October and there are two months more to go before the year ends. For us in Kalabo, we were advised that boreholes are only to be sunk from September, August, October and November, but we have not seen any boreholes sunk. We have only received seven boreholes from non-governmental organisations (NGOs). 

Mr Speaker, two weeks ago, I visited Silamu Village. The village headman invited me to go to the plains with him. I thought he was taking me to receive a gift of some kind, …

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: … but when we reached the plains, he showed me the place where they drew water from. I was expecting to see a shallow well, but there was nothing. All there was, was grass. He folded his trousers, took off his flip-flops and started walking on the swampy grass.

Mr Kosamu: Stop telling us stories you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Let us sometimes observe natural rules; not only the man-made rules, but also natural rules.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: He showed me how the people fetched water by stepping on the grass and allowing the water to come up. If the water was clear, they would fetch it, but if it was not clear, they would walk to another place. Then, I asked myself, “Is this Zambia?”

Hon. Opposition Members: Fifty years.

Mr Miyutu: Another question that came to mind was: For how long have we been independent?

Ms Lubezhi: No wonder you want to secede.

Mr Miyutu: Sir, if you hear people of the Western Province wanting to secede, and you are in Lusaka, you cannot see the reasons for this.

Mr Mufalali: Yes.

Mr Miyutu: These are facts on the ground.

So, when we draw up budgets such as this one, we should implement them. Some of the debaters in here said there is an implementation deficit, meaning that we do not implement what we plan. Since we do not implement – in fact, let me not say, “we” as if …

Mr Lufuma: You are part of them.

Mr Miyutu: No.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: Since the Government does not implement its plans, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: … it perpetuates the suffering of the people.

When you go outside Kalabo Boma, it is very difficult to tell that there has been a change of Government.

Mr Mufalali: There is nothing.

Mr Miyutu: You cannot notice any difference.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear! Akuna!

Mr Miyutu: There are no boreholes and people are still crying for hem. Immediately they see Hon. Miyutu, they ask about boreholes.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: So, for now, I will shift the question to the Government: Where are the boreholes?

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: You promised them.

Mr Miyanda: Who will answer the question?

Mr Miyutu: There are no boreholes.

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: Kapata, order!

Mr Miyutu: Let us not politick …

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Ms Lubezhi: Kapata, order!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I think I have been too quiet today. So, let me also raise a point of order on the hon. Member who is debating and does not seem to know what he is saying.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Kapata: Is the hon. Member in order to blame the Government for the promises he made to the people of Kalabo and has failed to fulfil? Is he, therefore, in order to shift the blame on the Government? Can he tell the people the truth.

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central is in order …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: … because it is the responsibility of the Government to provide these things.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Can the hon. Member continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Fortunately, I was a teacher for twenty-one years …

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Miyutu: … and these are the issues I taught pupils in class.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: I mean issues to do with water to drink.

Mr Muntanga: Our child, mu class.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, that aside, let me now talk about transport. A parent buys a bag of mealie meal for his family then he tells them that since I have bought you this bag of mealie meal, I will buy relish tomorrow. The children will be very surprised because they will not know what to do with that bag of mealie meal.

Hon. Members: Porridge.

Mr Miyutu: I am saying so because the Kalabo/Mongu Road has denied Kalabo other developmental projects. The Government keeps saying it is working on the Kalabo/Mongu Road, but forgets that this road was started by the former Government. So, it cannot block any other development that is supposed to take place.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear! 

You cannot be talking about the Mongu/Kalabo Road all the time.

Mr Miyutu: You cannot shift the Kalabo/Mongu Road to Sikongo.

Ms Lubezhi: No. It is not ‘shiftable’.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, on page 7 of the Budget Speech, there is a statement on the Kalabo/Sikongo Road that says that the Government will continue to implement the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project in 2014. I am happy to report that under this project, which commenced last year, there are well over 1,500 km of road works. These roads include the Pedicle, Mongu/Kalabo and Kalabo/Sikongo. I will just name those for now. If there is someone who resides in his/her constituency, it is I although some people are trying to disturb my life there.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, it is surprising that some people somewhere are trying to bring disturbances in my constituency. However, they are like those birds that pick ticks off animals and when they land on the back of the hippopotamus, they just pick the ticks, but the skin of the hippo remains intact.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: So, you are doing nothing.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: Sir, if the Kalabo/Sikongo Road exists on paper, then, I will agree with the Government pronouncements regarding that road, but if this progress is a reality on the ground, then it is misinformation. Driving from Kalabo to Sikongo used to take less than two hours but now, it takes the whole day, and yet the Government is saying works on that road are progressing.

Hon. UPND Members: Where?

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, is it in heaven or on earth?

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Member: Works are progressing well.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, let us learn to state facts. These statements we make are heard all over. So, some people somewhere in this world have heard that the Government is constructing the Kalabo/Sikongo Road when that is not the case. In Kalabo District, there is only one tipper. Maybe, the presence of that tipper is a sign of constructing the Kalabo/Sikongo Road. That tipper is not there for the Kalabo/Sikongo Road. It is better to say that the construction of the Kalabo/Sikongo Road is still on course. After all, the Kalabo/Sikongo Road should have been constructed by the MMD Government, but this was not done. Unfortunately, the PF Government is also joining its predecessors. So, I would like to believe that this road may be constructed under the leadership of the UPND.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Sir, it is now evident that this road is only on paper.

Hon. UPND Member: Hakainde Hichilema aleisa. 

Mr Livune: President Hichilema.

Ms Kapata interjected.

Ms Lubezhi: Kapata, order!

Mr Livune: President Hichilema will do it, mwana.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, yesterday, I received a text message from the project chairperson for Silao. Silao is a basic school which goes up to Grade 8.

Ms Kapata interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The voice is so distinct that I do not even have to doubt who is making those running commentaries.

Hon. Member, continue.

Mr Muntanga: She has forgotten that she is in Government.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the message was to the effect that the project chairperson did not know what to do about the lack of accommodation for the teachers at the school. On the other hand, the Government is saying it will upgrade basic schools, construct 150 classroom blocks and 150 staff houses. In Zambia, we have 150 constituencies. So, from the Government’s intention of constructing these classrooms and staff houses, does it mean one house will be constructed in each constituency? With this discrimination that I am seeing, I am sure Kalabo is not going to benefit from this project.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, do you think Kalabo can benefit from these 150 teachers’ houses to be built?

Hon. UPND Members: No.

Mr Miyutu: It is not possible, especially that there is some salt added to the wound.

Hon. Members: Which salt?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, before I conclude, I want to state what others have already stated. In my culture, we are taught that when a man marries a beautiful woman who has a child, automatically that child becomes his. Similarly, the PF must know that it has adopted the people of Kalabo by coming into office.

Mr Speaker, I do not even know what to do to stress my point. I wish I could tear my body to pieces so that I see blood flowing out. When one is a leader, that person is meant to lead others. We do not lead ourselves but others. Out of seventeen constituencies in a certain part of this country, only three have been given the CDF. On the other hand, in another area, which has fourteen constituencies, thirteen have received the CDF and the people on your right are proud of that. Is this something to be proud of? Let us have human hearts and not stone-hard hearts. When people voted for the PF, they did not do so for it to start discriminating. We have to give equal resources to all constituencies.

Mr Speaker, what the Government does not see on your left side is that we represent thousands of people, but they are only seeing a few individuals here. So, we need to buy them some spectacles so that they can see properly.

Interruptions

Mr Miyutu: The CDF is meant to benefit communities. Those who have been to Kalabo know how much the CDF is doing for the people there. Delaying the disbursement of the CDF will not punish Miyutu, but those areas that do not have houses for teachers, clinics, roads and so on and so forth.

Mr Speaker, let us make a change that will embrace every Zambian. Let us all enjoy being in Zambia. Why should we hate being in Zambia because some people somewhere do not like us? I like His Excellency the President. The President says he does not want to make Zambia a one-party State. However, those who are working with him want Zambia to be a one-party State. We do not want to live in a one-party State. If one does not want to be a leader in a multi-party State, that leader is in the wrong place. We want leaders who can understand multi-party politics and share public resources equally so that we all enjoy being in Zambia.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson of Committees: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Sir, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Questions put and agreed to.

______________ 

The House adjourned at 1930 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 18th October, 2013.