DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday 8th November, 2013

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

__________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I rise to acquaint the House with the business it will consider next week. On Tuesday, 12th November, 2013, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2014 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure to consider the following Votes:

  Head 85 – Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection;

Head 68 – Ministry of Tourism and Art; and

Head 27 – Public Service Management Division.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 13th November, 2013, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2014 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure to consider the following Votes:

Head 34 – Human Rights Commission;

Head 26 – Ministry of Information and Broadcasting; and

Head 31 – Ministry of Justice.

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 14th November, 2013, the Business of the House will commence with Questions. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2014 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and the following Votes will be considered:

Head 45 – Ministry of Community Development Mother and Child Health;

Head 46 – Ministry of Health; and

Head – 76 Ministry of Youth and Sport.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 15th November, 2013, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time, but I regret to inform my fans on the other side of the House that I am expected to be in Sri-Lanka for the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting then.

Mr Livune: Question.

The Vice-President: This will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with the Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2014 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the following Votes:

Head 51 – Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication; and

Head 18 – Judiciary.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

____________

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, workers at the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA), at Chozi, have requested me to find out from His Honour the Vice-President when their conditions of service, including salaries, will be reviewed, owing to the fact that their colleagues at the Zambia Railways Limited had their salaries and conditions of service reviewed in the first year of this Government assuming office.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if, indeed, the hon. Member has been requested to find out when the conditions of service and salaries for workers at TAZARA will be reviewed, I am surprised that he did not phone or visit me so that I contact the relevant authorities. The complication with TAZARA is that it is a joint venture between the Tanzanian and Zambian governments. Therefore, issues such as conditions of service cannot be unilaterally handled by Zambia. Whether there are negotiations taking place or how far they have gone is something I cannot just pull out of the air at this point. Therefore, I invite the hon. Member to come and see me after this session so that we see how much active information we can get.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): His Honour the Vice-President, do you not think that castigating investors in public is going to scare away potential investors and make Zambia an undesirable investment destination?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, governance is a balancing act. We represent the ordinary people of Zambia, especially the workers and unemployed. So, we have to come out on their side when there is an issue between them and management, where we consider the management to be unreasonable. One has to strike a balance. We do not want to overdo the castigation but, at the same time, investors must realise that the effort to develop Zambia and distribute its wealth needs to be harmonised. I think there has been careless talk by some foreign investors recently.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, what is your comment on the infrastructure development programmes that …

Hon. Opposition Members:  Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: … the Patriotic Front (PF) has embarked on since it formed Government two years ago? What is your comment on the laying of a foundation stone, yesterday, …

Interruptions

Mr Mushanga: … at the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, please, restrict yourselves to one question. Time is limited.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for those unexpected questions.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: However, I will answer the first one only.

This programme is an indication of the policy direction that we have taken to create jobs and develop infrastructure. We are doing the same thing that President Roosevelt did with His New Deal Government. We are also doing the same thing that was done during the Irish Potato Famine in the middle of the 19th Century. We shall build railways and roads and employ people, generally taking a positive view towards a bad situation.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): His Honour the Vice-President, the Bembas ‘defiled’ the President by going ahead to install …

Hon PF Members: Question.

Mr Mbewe: … Chief Chitimukulu despite the Government’s resistance. Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) has also done the same by firing seventy-six workers after the President had said no one should be fired.

Mr Speaker: Those are two questions, are they not?

Hon Ntundu: No, it is just one.

Mr Mbewe: Is this not an indication that your Government has failed to maintain law and order in the country?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I will choose to answer the second question because I do not understand the first one, especially on the use of the verb “defile” in the context of the Bemba Chieftaincy. So, I will let that question pass until somebody clarifies it. However, I will take the one on the seventy-six people who have been dismissed.

Sir, there is some controversy about whether the seventy-six people who have been dismissed actually exist. If we assume that there were some dismissals, then it is still open to the Government to take appropriate action. The hon. Member is asking about something that was reported just yesterday and he is expecting that the Government has already made a full set of decisions about it. If he asks me about this in two weeks’ time, I will give him a very accurate answer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, yesterday, we saw the Zambian ‘Janjaweed Militia’ in action.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: We saw all sorts of weapons being used. People hacked each other and some lives were lost. What is the Government doing to ensure that the ‘Janjaweed’ are disarmed?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the ‘Janjaweed Militia’, as they are being referred to by the hon. Member, are essentially a problem for the police. However, this is not a new phenomenon. During the 2011 Elections, six bus loads of ‘Janjaweed’ in Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) T-shirts were brought to my constituency to beat up people and tear up posters. I know that it is certainly the same people who wear PF T-shirts now. This is a problem that I mentioned earlier in this House. When you have many unemployed and energetic youths, …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on my left!

The Vice-President: … they tend to take refuge in the Ruling Party because …

Mr Mbulakulima interjected.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe, Order!

The Vice-President: … it offers them the best housing.

The police were active yesterday and this morning in the Central Business District of Lusaka and other sensitive areas. Dockets have been opened and some people charged for the murder of someone yesterday. The police are the right people to maintain law and order. Of course, the party needs to give leadership, but you cannot always get it right in providing leadership to people who are frustrated and are seeking to benefit from a situation. So, I assure the hon. Questioner that we are in charge.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, around 2008/9, the Crop Levy was abolished and substituted with a grant called Crop Levy Compensation. May His Honour the Vice-President state whether the Crop Levy in district councils, especially those in rural areas, will be reinstated.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this is a good question because, on one hand, the Crop Levy enables the local authorities to do something for the farmers by maintaining the roads and running its police force and so on and so forth. Therefore, traders should pay the levy. On the other hand, the levy was a well-known source of corruption in the past. The MMD removed it a year or two before the elections in order to increase the dependency of district councils upon the Central Government. It is a good idea and we will certainly consider reinstating it. However, we want to consult all the right people and proceed cautiously.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, upon introducing the tollgates in Zambia, has the Government chosen an agent that is going to manage them?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I believe the Road Development Agency (RDA) will operate them.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, last week, I asked a question to His Honour the Vice-President that still begs an answer and I would like to repeat it.

After the 2011 Elections, the PF Government appointed some people to the Foreign Service and this has been a continuous process. Out of those who were appointed as early as that time, may I know how many have not yet taken up their posts, the reason for this and whether they are on salary or not.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I believe that was a Parliamentary Question which came up last week and was answered. If it is the same question that she asked last week, I think this is now a case of excessive repetition.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, Jimbe Road is a Southern African Development Community (SADC) International Road that is on the T5. At the moment, this road is in a deplorable state, meaning that this country is ignoring an economic road. When is this Government going to give it priority in the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Projects so that the image of Zambia is cleaned up in the face of the international community?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there was a problem of landmines on that road that delayed its construction. Perhaps, I could ask the hon. Questioner to check whether it is on the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Projects or not. If it is, it will be worked on. However, if it is not, then, that is a problem and he needs to do some lobbying.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, soon after taking up his appointment, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock came to this House and did an honourable act of apologising on behalf of the Government’s failure in agriculture in the previous seasons and promised to improve. My question to His Honour the Vice-President is: From the time the apology was made, how does he rate his Government’s performance in this very important sector of our economy?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we have been feeding the region. For example, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Tanzania, Kenya, Malawi, Mozambique, Zimbabwe, Botswana and Namibia, if you want a full list, have been eating our maize. The situation has considerably improved from what it was when we sat back and ate maize from Zimbabwe. So, I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

Mr Mukanga: Yes.

The Vice-President: Hon. Members, given the difficulties of the Fertiliser Input Support Programme (FISP), we are not doing badly. FISP has logistical problems that Hon. Nkombo and I know about since we, or one of our predecessors, worked on it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, when are you sending relief food to Mwandi or are you waiting for a father and child to share milk?

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the question is: What do the women in Mwandi eat that enables them to lactate and feed the males in the family?

Laughter

The Vice-President: The hon. Member knows perfectly well that the right place to put that request forward is in a meeting in the presence of the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) where I can get the answers directly. The DMMU has recently established a custom in my office and I will be waiting for the hon. Member after this session so that we can go and resolve this issue.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members continued gesticulating.

Mr Speaker: Order!

I just want to assure hon. Members that I have, before me, a list of people wishing to take the Floor. So, no amount of gesticulation ...

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … will change the order. That is why I am calling upon those who are seated to take the Floor, with the assistance of the Clerks-At-the-Table …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: … who are able to see through the camera.

Laughter

Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga): Mr Speaker, every accident that occurs in Zambia involves public service vehicles. In addition, the rate of indiscipline on the roads has got out of hand. I would like to know what the Government is doing to address this high level of indiscipline on our roads.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, firstly, to say that the situation has grown out of hand and that all accidents that happen involve public service vehicles is to make a very general statement. However, I agree with the hon. Member that discipline amongst drivers in the Public Service is an issue. It is one of the reasons that the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) was set up and has been active since. If we can get the Zambia Police Force and RTSA to harmonise their activities and controls, there would be sanity on the roads. However, there are people who are complaining about weekend imprisonment for drunken drivers. We have to have a harsh attitude towards careless, drunken and otherwise incompetent driving. I agree with the hon. Questioner’s implicit position there.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, Malawi transports its uranium to Namibia through Zambian roads, covering a distance of 1,200 km. Can His Honour the Vice-President assure this House and the nation that precautions have been taken to ensure that Zambians will not suffer any catastrophe as this uranium passes through our country?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the basic physics is that this is very low-grade uranium. There is no danger of it growing hot like it was a nuclear reactor even in an event that the truck careered off the road. However, both the Atomic Energy Agency of the United Nations (UN) and our own monitoring group are actively involved in monitoring this. I can assure the hon. Member that we are perfectly safe. All that matters is that we are making money out of this.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, I would like to know if the PF Government is going to restore the Barotseland Agreement of 1964 or it is just going to continue arresting innocent people.

I need a straightforward answer, Sir.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, perhaps, I should make a tape recording of my answer to that question since I have had it asked so many times, but in various forms. Since the Constitution is about to come out, I hope that it will make a provision for decentralisation or devolution. However, none of us, including the President, has seen it. So, we want to see what is in it. Thereafter, can we give a sensible answer. Meanwhile, the hon. Member should tell his constituents to stop agitating and breaking the law.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, just last week, His Honour the Vice-President informed this House that the farmers’ contribution to FISP was K130. Yesterday, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock emphasised that the contribution is K100. What will happen to the many farmers who have already paid the K130?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, firstly, the Government should be thanked and appreciated for reverting the price to K100 due to the savings that the Government managed to make in the management of that scheme. Yes, I understand some farmers have already paid K130. However, we shall see what can be done to compensate for that K30 in the years to come.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central): Mr Speaker, the KCM has gone ahead to retrench workers despite the President’s directive not to do so. I would like to know what immediate measures the Government has put in place to compel the KCM to adhere to the President’s directive to maintain a stable labour force.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this is nearly the same question as the one I had earlier. This issue only arose yesterday and I would expect very stringent measures to be taken. That is all I can say. However, when those measures have been taken, that will be publicised.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, hunger is threatening in Shibuyunji District. In view of this, when is His Honour the Vice-President going to send relief maize to Mwembeshi District?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am not a super computer to have all the information that is in my office on the many districts in Zambia neither are the people at the DMMU. Whether there has been a breakdown in the non-governmental organisation (NGO) that is carrying out the assessment or a failure elsewhere in the system, that can be determined, but not on the Floor of this House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, since the revocation of Statutory Instrument (SI) 89, we have seen the performance of the kwacha going down. As of yesterday, the kwacha was trading at K5.6 to the US Dollar.

Hon. MMD Member: Sure?

Mr Konga: Sir, can His Honour the Vice-President tell this House and the nation at large what measures his Government is taking to give investors confidence so that the kwacha can regain its strength?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have said before that the kwacha and its relationship with other currencies extends beyond the tight strength of the kwacha relative to the US Dollar. The US Dollar is one of the many reference currencies in the world and it has its own life and history. People will leave Europe with Euros and convert them into dollars in the United States of America (USA). That strengthens the dollar against other currencies, including the kwacha, even though the action has got nothing to do with our kwacha. What is more important for us in the day-to-day business of Zambia is the exchange rate with the South African Rand. I also said this the other day but, unfortunately, it was misreported. It is against the South African Rand that we were actually strengthened over the last two years. I think you are worrying unnecessarily. Please, do not lose sleep over this issue. These are minor adjustments that occur in every currency, including the Chinese, Japanese and Euro currencies. The Euro has actually been behaving in a much less stable and friendly way than the kwacha has.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, now that your Government has failed to pay the farmers in the Southern Province and elsewhere, and the localities where the same farmers are in have not received the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), are you not thinking about lifting the ban on the movement of livestock from the Southern Province into Lusaka where the market is good?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if you go to the right place on the Kafue River and look through the reeds, you will see animals ‘floating’ through the air. If you go closer, you will notice that the animals are standing on a raft and being illegally rafted across the Kafue River into the Central Province. Unfortunately, there are disease and sanitary issues with our cattle because the small traditional cattle herd is not uniformly looked after in terms of dipping and vaccination. If you go to a commercial farm, you will find healthy animals, unless the owner is on the verge of going bankrupt. However, we have to maintain some kind of discipline in order to keep diseases like Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP), and Foot and Mouth, especially out of the critical areas in the country. So, the country is divided into two bits. I would love to see the Southern Province back in business as the major cattle producer, selling to everybody in the world, including the European Union (EU). However, I am sure our friends on the other side realise that we have a lot of work to do before we can do that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President aware that despite the killing of the Mailoni brothers, the operations of the Zambia Flying Doctors Service in the Luano Valley have not resumed? If he is aware, what is the next step to be taken?

The Vice-President: Sir, the next step, presumably, is to resume that service. I do not think there has been any permanent ban on it. The Zambia Flying Doctors Service had some operational problems. I admit it has been quite a while since the death of the Mailoni brothers. However, I am actually being informed, on this side of the House, that the service has restarted.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, I wish to remind His Honour the Vice-President that the Government had introduced a programme whereby two-year old cattle was vaccinated against corridor disease in Mazabuka in the Southern Province and other provinces. Why has the Government stopped this programme because farmers were ready to pay, at least, K15 per animal?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the programme has been resumed.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I have a few statistics here. In 2009, the Foreign-Service cadre was 230. In 2012, the figure went up to 320. This year, it has increased by 100 to 430. What has caused this exponential increase in the Foreign-Service cadre?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we are filling vacancies and opening new missions. Apart from that, I cannot make a detailed calculation off the tip of my tongue. However, that is basically what has been happening.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, we have heard from His Honour the Vice-President that he thinks it is normal to see the skirmishes that are going on among political cadres and have now resulted in a death. He also indicated that in the 2011 Elections, a group of MMD panga-wielding cadres invaded his constituency.

Sir, now that this is the first time in the history of this country that there is intra-party violence in a Ruling Party and has resulted in the death of one of the people that have been sponsored by the other warring group within the party, I would like to know why the police has charged the nineteen people that have been arrested with a simple misdemeanor when a death has occurred as a result of disorderly behavior. In the Livingstone By-election, the PF killed one of its members and the police arrested seventy-three United Party for National Development (UPND) members, including me, eight of whom …

Hon. Government Members interjected.

Mr Nkombo: Shut up.

… were charged with a capital offence of murder. I would like him to explain to me what the real problem in his party is because, when a fish starts to rot, it starts from the head.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, the management of the House is my responsibility and not yours.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we are sitting here or, in my case, standing here barely twenty-four hours since the controversial events took place. I have read all the accounts. For example, The Zambian Watchdog has a completely different account from that of the Zambia Daily Nation.

Mr Mwiimbu: So, you read The Zambian Watchdog?

Laughter

The Vice-President: I read The Zambian Watchdog …

Mr Speaker: He is informed.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Yes, Sir, I am a collector of fiction. I have a very good collection of   online fiction and I like to be up-to-date.

Mr Muntanga: How can we access it?

The Vice-President: You can access it in various ways, but you do not have to know how.

Laughter

The Vice-President: The situation is that a docket has been opened for murder and less than twenty-fours have passed since the murder was committed. There is a murder being investigated and the matter will be handled accordingly. The Livingstone case was very controversial. However, how come there is the allegation that the PF killed its own cadre? Has this been proven, Mr Nkombo?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: What about the death of one of our cadres at the hands of the UPND in Rufunsa? What does the hon. Member say about that?

Mr Livune: Question.

The Vice-President: Do we not both have this problem? In many ways, we have the same problem of indisciplined cadres who behave like the Janjaweed Militia. We admit that we have this problem, but it does not mean that the world is coming to an end.

I thank you, Sir.

______________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

172. Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a) whether the Government had ever carried out a livestock restocking exercise in Lukulu West Parliamentary Constituency and, if so, when; and

(b) if a livestock restocking exercise had never been carried out, what were the reasons for that.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Speaker, the Government has never carried out a livestock restocking exercise in Lukulu West Parliamentary Constituency due to the prevalence of the CBPP in the Western Province. However, the Government has embarked on an on-going countrywide livestock-restocking exercise. With the CBPP under control in the Western Province, Lukulu West Parliamentary Constituency will be considered for restocking.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, they know …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order in national interest. Information is power and it is at the centre of the growth of our democracy and development. Is His Honour the Vice-President in order to quietly and exclusively enjoy reading The Zambian Watchdog, which his Government has branded as inimical to this country, and has put up every measure to block it? He has gone behind closed doors to enjoy reading it while the rest of us are now unable to access information which we previously used to get through it.

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I think, in all fairness, I would rather you put that question directly to His Honour the Vice-President so that you can canvass all those issues which are also considered to be possibly controversial and engage him on it. In short, file in a question and he will respond accordingly.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister responded well to my question when he said that there was the CBPP in Lukulu, meaning that animals have been dying. However, there is no record of this and no livestock restocking has ever taken place there. In view of this, my question is: Why is the livestock not being restocked since the Government knows that the disease is there?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, if a livestock disease is prevalent, I am not too sure whether it would be wise for the Government to restock livestock for whichever farmer would have lost his/her animals. This is because even if we were to restock the animals, they would still die. Therefore, our strategy is that we must first control the various livestock diseases in the different parts of our country. Only then will it make sense for us to restock.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, just a while ago, in answer to a question relating to the ban on the movement of cattle from the Southern Province to Lusaka, His Honour the Vice-President said that it is because of the diseases. However, I am also aware that cattle restocking has taken place in the Southern Province. Did the Government not consider that there were diseases in the Southern Province when it went ahead with the restocking? When it comes to the Western Province, cattle cannot be restocked because there is a disease. How do you reconcile the two?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the restocking the hon. Member has referred to in the Southern Province was done many years ago. Let me give her some comfort. In the 2014 Budget, there is a provision for the restocking exercise in areas that have lost animals due to disease, and the Western Province, particularly Lukulu, has been included.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I would like …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised. I hope it is not a follow-up question.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister in order to say that animal restocking in the Southern Province was done some time back when the Government is still looking for money to restock animals in Kalomo?

Mr Speaker: Order!

The point of order is misplaced.

The hon. Member for Katombola may continue.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, may I get a bonus answer from the hon. Minister as regards cattle restocking in Kazungula District, especially in the Nyawa and Musokotwane chiefdoms where animals were wiped out by disease.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the question that I am responding to relates to the restocking of cattle in Lukulu West. Musokotwane and Nyawa chiefdoms, which fall under Kazungula in Katombola Constituency, are not the subject of this question. Therefore, I advise …

Mr Livune: A bonus answer.

Mr Kazabu: … the hon. Member to raise a question and it will be responded to accordingly. The bonus answer he is soliciting is that we have already sent some animals for restocking to Chief Sikute’s Chiefdom because money was provided for this in this year’s Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that now that the CBPP has been contained in the Western Province, he will consider restocking animals in Lukulu West. May I know whether the disease has been fully contained and, if so, why he considers that particular area a special case because the reason it was denied restocking was that there was a disease.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, when we say that the CBPP has been controlled, what we mean is that the prevalence rate has reduced. By the way, the CBPP is prevalent in two provinces, namely the Southern and Western. The incidences of outbreaks are much higher in the Western Province because of the proximity to Angola.

Sir, hon. Members will recall that we used to have a cordon line which has been vandalised over the years because, for some reason, the cordon guards disappeared. Although we have to account for this, we were not there when the cordon line was vandalised.

Mr Livune: Question.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, we are considering whether or not the cordon line should be put back so that the movement of cattle from Angola can be controlled. That is one measure that we use to control diseases such as the CBPP.

I thank you, Sir.

RECREATION FACILITIES IN KAPIRI MPOSHI

173. Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Minister of Youth and Sport when the Government would construct recreation facilities in Kapiri Mposhi Parliamentary Constituency.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Shamenda) (on behalf of the Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili)): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Youth and Sport, is determined to construct sports complexes and facilities in all districts for sports development. However, the construction of recreation facilities in Kapiri Mposhi is the responsibility of the local authority.

I thank you, Sir.

UNSERVICED PLOTS IN SESHEKE

174. Mr Sianga (Sesheke) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) why Sesheke District Council had been allocating un-serviced plots to developers;

(b) when the plots would be serviced; and

(c) whether the council had any plans to service the plots before allocating them to developers.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, Sesheke District Council is currently allocating land in Katima Mulilo Township where the following has been done using the Land Development Fund (LDF):

(a) making a layout plan for approximately 1,000 stands;

(b) numbering the stands;

(c) surveying 500 stands.

Sir, the funds realised from the fees payable by developers will be used to further open up the land and for the remaining works.

Mr Speaker, the plots will be serviced using the budgetary provision for roads. Under the Pave Zambia 2,000 km Road Projects, about 10.5 km of roads will be worked on in conjunction with the RDA. Preliminary works have already been done.

Sir, the plots will be serviced simultaneously by commercial service providers, namely Western Water and Sewerage Company and Zambia Electricity Supply Co-operation (ZESCO). The funds realised from the sale of plots will also be used to service the plots.

Mr Speaker, the plans for opening up the roads are indicated above. As earlier mentioned, the provision of electricity and water is the mandate of the Western Water and Sewerage Company and ZESCO respectively.

Sir, as a ministry, we are aware that the Western Water and Sewerage Company has received funding for upgrading the water reticulation system in Katima Mulilo. The council is also in the process of applying for more land development funds to service more land as contained in the Report for the General Purpose Committee Meeting held in March, 2013.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that some plots in Sesheke Township have no inlets and outlets?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, we are aware of the magnitude of the work that we have to do in Sesheke District. It must be noted that the hon. Member of Parliament, who is part of Sesheke District Council, is aware of the issues that are discussed in council meetings.

I thank you, Sir.

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

(Consideration resumed)

Vote 04/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 04/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 04/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 12/01 – (Commission for Investigations – Office of the President – K7,293,107).

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Chairperson, the Commission for Investigations is an organ of the State, established by the Constitution of Zambia, as …

Interruptions

The Vice-President: … read with Chapter 39 of the Laws of Zambia. The commission became operational in 1974 under an Act of Parliament. For the avoidance of any confusion, the Commission for Investigations is what, in many countries, is called the Ombudsman. It was originally a Scandinavian idea.

Sir, its mission statement is:

“ to ensure fairness and promotion of social justice in the administration of public institutions in order to facilitate the efficient and effective delivery of services to the people.”

Mr Chairperson, its ultimate goal is:
 
“ toensure compliance with laid-downadministrative procedures, practices and ethics, initiate corrective action in public institutions in order to enhance effective administration in the Public Service.”

Mr Chairperson, the functions of the commission involve the following:

(a) investigating and redressing grievances of mal-administration (administrative injustices) in public institutions;

(b) ensuring the promotion of fairness and social justice; and

(c) monitoring administrative malpractices so as to ensure compliance with laid-down procedures.

Sir, as I have said earlier, in other countries, this institution is normally called the Office of the Ombudsman.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

  Both my right and left are consulting loudly.

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, as regards the performance of the Commission for Investigations, hon. Members may be interested to know that it is measured by the number of cases that it receives and resolves annually.

Sir, from January, 2013, to the end of September, 2013, the commission received 475 complaints and managed to close 289 of them.

Mr Chairperson, for 2013, this House approved a total b udget of K6,317,838.90.

Sir, allow me now to present the Budget Estimates for 2014, totaling K7,293,106.81. These funds are earmarked for supporting the portfolio functions of the Commission for Investigations in the continued effort to redress abuse of authority in our public institutions.

Mr Chairperson, the following are the commission’s key development programmes earmarked for 2014:

(a) decentralising its operations to the ten provinces and then progressively to the districts. For this reason, the restructuring of the commission is underway;

(b) strengthening the legal framework in order to make its operations more effective and efficient. The process of reviewing the Act by which the commission was established has begun this year and will continue in 2014 until all the amendments to the Act have been made, especially to include the private sector in and among the public sector, subject to the Ombudsman’s jurisdiction;

(c) undertaking provincial tours to all the provinces to resolve pending complaints and, at the same time, receive new ones;

(d) continuing with the development and maintenance of an electronic data base so as to enhance information flow; and

(e) continuing with public campaign programmes through the electronic and print media so as to sensitise the general public of the operations of the commission.
In conclusion, Sir, the Commission for Investigations is a public institution wholly supported by the Government and its services are rendered free of charge. I have a personal interest in this commission because many people in this country think I am the ombudsman and a lot of my time is taken up listening to complaints about the operations of public institutions. The more that is properly done by the Ombudsman’s Office, the happier I will be.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: Any further debate? Can His Honour the Vice-President wind up his policy debate?

The Vice-President: I wish to thank hon. Members for that overwhelming expression of support for this Vote.

I thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

Vote 12/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 11 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – K1,169,426,568), VOTE 15 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – K451,624,840) and VOTE 16 (Drug Enforcement Commission – K63,473,541).

The Chairperson: I seek the indulgence of the House that we consider Head 11 – Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs, Head 15 – Ministry of Home Affairs and Head 16 – Drug Enforcement Commission together because all the three come under the Ministry of Home Affairs.

I see no objection. So, we will consider all the three Heads together.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Lungu): I am very grateful for the opportunity to present this policy statement. I thank all the hon. Members of the House who debated enthusiastically in support of my ministry’s budget last year. This shows the importance of the ministry’s contribution to the socio-economic development of our country.

Sir, my statement will cover all the Votes falling under the Ministry of Home Affairs, as stated by the Chairperson. These are Head 11 – Zambia Police, Head 15 – Ministry of Home Affairs and Head 16 – Drug Enforcement Commission.

Mr Chairperson, the mandate of the ministry is to manage internal security through the formulation of policies and enforcement of public security and safety laws in order to promote sustainable socio-economic development for the people of Zambia. This mandate is discharged through the following departments and specialised agencies:

(a) Zambia Police Force;

(b) Zambia Prisons Service;

(c) Drug Enforcement Commission;

(d) National Registration;

(e) Passport and Citizen;

(f) Immigration;

(g) Commission for Refugees;

(h) Registrar of Societies;

(i) Police Public Complaints Authority;

(j) National Archives; and

(k) Research and Information Planning.

Sir, I am glad to report that the Ministry of Home Affairs made a number of significant achievements in 2013 which included the following, among others:

(a) completion and opening of Mwembeshi Maximum Prison which is currently accommodating close to 700 inmates;

(b) the recent launching of the Kalonga Milling Plant for the Zambia Prisons Service in Kabwe. This plant has the capacity to produce 3,000 x 25 kg bags of mealie-meal per day;

(c) procurement of twenty motor vehicles and twenty motorbikes to be used by the Zambia Police Force for enhancing road patrols;

(d) procurement of 3,000 pairs of uniforms for the Zambia Police Force. Notwithstanding the disparaging remarks one hon. Member made in comparing officers in the Zambia Police Force with those in the Zambia Prisons Service, we are trying to do the best for both;

(e) conducting of sensitisation programmes for the various services offered by the ministry. For instance, the Drug Enforcement Commission undertook programmes on the dangers of drug trafficking, drug abuse, money laundering and counselling of dependant persons. The programmes targeted a total of 141,680 persons;

(f) the continued reforms in our visa management regime aimed at promoting security and enhancing foreign investment;

(g) development of various infrastructure projects such as new office blocks for various departments under the ministry; and

(h) development of the Public Safety and Security Policy, and the 2013/2016 Ministerial Strategic Plan.

Mr Chairperson, despite the highlighted achievements, 2013 was not without challenges. Some difficulties encountered included the following:

(a) inadequate and degenerating infrastructure coupled with the lack of modern equipment for crime prevention, detection and investigation;

(b) emergence of new forms of crimes such as human trafficking, cyber crime and terrorism;

(c) continued congestion in the existing detention and prison facilities;

(d) continued high incidences of abuse of illicit drugs and other substances;

(e) high incidences of illegal immigration;

(f) high incidences of gender-based violence and politically-motivated violence, like it was sadly experienced yesterday; and

(g) renewed conflict in neighbouring countries which has raised new security concerns and prospects for new refugee arrivals in the country.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Home Affairs wishes to focus on the following in 2014:

(a) improvement of capacity in food production in the Zambia Prisons Service to ensure that it is self sustaining, beginning in 2015. This will be done through the expansion of prison farms around the country;

(b) reduction of the current debt owed to suppliers, particularly food suppliers;

(c) construction of new cells to reduce congestion;

(d) finalisation of the first phase of the projects with digitised national registration cards;

(e) improvement in crime detection through the construction of a forensic laboratory and opening of the human Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA) Laboratory;

(f) computerisation of the Registrar of Societies’ Office to improve record management; and

(g) modernisation of the operations of the Zambia Police Force.

Sir, I now wish to highlight how resources have been allocated to some of the departments and specialised agencies in the 2014 Budget.

Sir, under the Zambia Police Force, priority has been placed on the following programmes:

(a) continuing with the decentralisation of certain functions such as the maintenance of public order to the provinces for timely response to unforeseen public disturbances;

(b) revamping the canine section where more pure-breed dogs are earmarked for procurement; and

(c) continuing with the mordernisation of operations through the acquisition of new equipment;

(d)  improving the management of transport; and

(e) reducing outstanding debt.
 
Sir, to implement these programmes, the allocation for the Zambia Police Force has been increased by K279,375,398 from last year’s K890,051,170 to K1,169,426,568, representing a 31 per cent increase.

Mr Chairperson, the allocation to the Zambia Prisons Service will ensure that dependence on the Central Government in meeting the cost of feeding inmates is significantly reduced. The opening of the new milling plant in Kabwe is clear testimony of my ministry’s resolve to ensure that the Prisons Department becomes self sustaining in feeding all inmates in the country. To this end, the ministry has made a provision of K22.5 million to increase maize production from the current 80,000 x 50 kg bags to 240,000 x 50 kg bags per year. Priority has also been put on the construction of ten new prison cells across the most congested prisons, especially those along the line of rail. My ministry has also committed K30 million to reducing the debt owed to suppliers of foodstuff to prisons.

Mr Chairperson, a total of K218.7 million has been allocated to the Zambia Prisons Service to support various programmes and activities aimed at changing the face of our prisons around the country.

Mr Chairperson, the areas of focus in the allocation to the Drug Enforcement Commission includes the following:

(a) overhauling its radio communication system countrywide;

(b) purchasing specialised equipment such as surveillance and laboratory equipment;

(c) commencing work to decentralise the Anti-Money Laundering Unit to provinces; and

(d) purchasing motor vehicles and boats.

Sir, a total of K63, 473,541 has been allocated to the Drug Enforcement Commission.

Mr Chairperson, the Immigration Department proposes to allocate the bulk of its resources to the construction of offices and border posts. Funds have also been allocated to the installation and improvement of a management information system as well as procurement of marine and land transport. A total of K48.8 million has been set aside for this department.

Sir, the main programmes under the Department of National Registration, Passport and Citizenship will be the implementation …

A phone rang.

Interruptions

Mr Lungu: … of the project to introduce electronic national registration cards and the computerisation and integration of all civil registers under the department. This will include birth and death registration among others. The department also aims at commencing the Mobile Registration Exercise to ensure that all eligible citizens are issued with identity documents. A sum of K57.8 million has been allocated to the department.

Mr Chairperson, the Registrar of Societies is of interest to some of my colleagues on the other side. In order to facilitate quality and timely decision making, the department has embarked on a computerisation exercise for the whole information management system. It is expected that this process will culminate into improved service delivery through efficient registration and monitoring of societies. This process has already started and K1.5 million has been allocated to the computerisation project in 2014.

Sir, a number of institutional as well as legal reforms will be undertaken to ensure that the Police Public Complaints Authority carries out its mandate efficiently and effectively. I, therefore, propose to increase the allocation to this very important body from K1.2 million to K3 million.

Sir, in order to find a durable solution to the problem of refugees in the country, the Government, through the United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR), has decided to embark on a programme of local integration of eligible Angolans and Rwandese refugees. This programme is undertaken through an Inter-Agency Committee that has developed criteria for screening refugees. A sum of K3.3 million has been allocated to this office.

Sir, in order to contribute to global peace and security, the Ministry of Home Affairs is in the process of reviewing the Anti-Terrorism Act No. 21 of 2008 to establish a Centre Against Terrorism. Among other functions, the centre will be responsible for the following:

(a) detection of terrorism materials, whether in transit or not;
 
(b) setting aside K1.2 million for the provision of security to civilians and non-civilian institutions to prevent threats; and

(c) facilitation of national, regional and global sharing of information for countering terrorism. 
Mr Chairperson, as I wind up debate, I wish to submit that the allocations made to the various departments and agencies will lead to ensuring that our country continues to enjoy the peace and security that it is renowned for. I, therefore, expect strong support from my colleagues on the left and, indeed, those on the right for the proposed allocations.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I thank you for recognising me both yesterday and today. I would like to debate on the prisons.

Ms Kalima: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kalima: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order, taking into account your guidance several times to this House. I have two letters before me. The first one is from Chief Madzimawe to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, dated 23rd September, 2013, and copied to the council in Chipata, His Worship the Mayor, the Town Clerk, all the councillors in Kasenengwa and myself. It reads as follows:

“Dear Madam,

“Re: A Call for the Dissolution of Kasenengwa CDF Committee

“We wish to draw your special attention to the fact that the Government of the Republic of Zambia has adopted the Decentralisation Policy under the able leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. 

“He has recognised the need to decentralise developmental projects to all communities and our chiefdoms are not an exception. We surely commend the Government for this.

“With due respect, we, the chiefs, are aggrieved with the manner in which our area hon. Member of Parliament is running the affairs of the constituency. To start with, we are not happy with the way the current CDF Committee was ushered into office by the hon. Member of Parliament. We feel there was total violation of the CDF guidelines. She has appointed members of one party, the MMD, who are either ward or constituency officials. Worse still, these are people who were her witnesses in the High Court where her election is being petitioned. This appointment surely came as a reward for the support they rendered to her in the court of law.

“As partners in development, we, including all the councillors, were denied the chance to choose who to represent us in the committee. For sure, the hon. Member of Parliament has no regard for anyone, including us, the chiefs, except the so-called co-ordinators whom she appointed and are bringing confusion in the constituency. She fails to update us with the latest information on developmental issues. She does not mind holding meetings without the knowledge of the chiefs. This I do-not-care type of attitude is uncalled for and will no longer be tolerated in our chiefdom.

“It is for these reasons that we have decided to write to your good office to intervene in the matter before things get out of hand. We call for the immediate dissolution of the current CDF Committee. Your quick and positive response on the matter will be highly appreciated.

“Yours faithfully,

Chief Madzimawe.”{mospagebreak}

Mr Chairperson, as I stated earlier, this letter was copied to me. The council informed me that it had received a copy of the letter and I was waiting to hear from the hon. Minister. Yesterday, on 29th October, 2013, I received a letter in this House. Allow me to read it out before I lay it on the Table. This letter was written to the Town Clerk and was copied to me. It reads as follows:

“The Town Clerk, 
Chipata Municipal Council
P O. Box 510020
Chipata

“Dissolution of Kasenengwa CDF Committee

 “Reference is made to the above-captioned subject.

“I write to inform you that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing has dissolved the Kasenengwa CDF Committee and has directed that a new committee be constituted in accordance with the quota membership as stipulated in the 2006 CDF Guidelines.

“Ensure that you collect curriculum vitae (CVs) from the four community leaders to confirm their track record in previous community work. The community leaders should be selected in consultation with the area Member of Parliament. In addition, nominees should not hold political office in any political party.

“By copy of this letter, the Provincial Local Government Officer, Eastern Province, should ensure that no person with partisan political interest sits on the CDF Committee.”

Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, who is a fellow woman, in order to dissolve the CDF Committee based on information she got from the traditional leaders without engaging me to find out what could have happened. I could have probably opened up to tell her the situation on the ground.

Mr Chairperson, the CDF has been delayed and we are lagging behind in terms of project implementation. Is she doing this just to derail the progress of an hon. Female Member of Parliament?

The Chairperson: Your point …

Ms Kalima: Mr Chairperson, I seek your serious ruling and will lay the two letters on the Table.

Ms Kalima laid the papers on the Table.

The Chairperson: Before I make a ruling on that point of order, I always want to seize the opportunity to continuously remind the House of the rules you have set for yourselves. It is important that we constantly remind each other of these rules. I have repeatedly said that, according to your rules, unless you want to change them, a point of order must be on procedure, decorum, relevance and must also be contemporaneous.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: These guidelines actually point to one thing. I have noticed that of late, we relate the guidelines on relevance to what was said yesterday or the day before, and so on and so forth. That is not the relevance that we are talking about and those are not the rules that we have set. Points of order must be relevant to decorum and procedure in relation to the discussions that are taking place.

Having said that, let me mention that the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Kasenengwa does not fall in any one of these categories. However, it may be important that clarification is made on this issue. I will, therefore, request the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to come up with a ministerial statement on the matter …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: … before Friday next week.

Can the hon. Member who was on the Floor continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Long live the Chair.

Mr Ntundu: Today, you are good.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Hon. Ntundu, I have always been good. I give guidance according to the rules.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, before the point of order, I was saying that we know that prisons are as old an institution as mankind. As long as man exists and makes laws to guide society, there will always be people who break those laws and are incarcerated when they do so, …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Lufuma: … so that they are separated from society. In view of this, we are all potential candidates and clients of these institutions. This should propel us to take good care of the prisons because we never know when we can visit them. It does not matter whether one is black, white, short, tall, skinny or bloated; a woman, girl or man, we are all potential candidates for prisons and so we should seriously think about taking care of them.

However, Mr Chairperson, according to the hon. Minister, only K218.7 million has been allocated to the prisons. This is a drop in the ocean compared to the amount of work that should be done to improve the prisons. 
 
Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

There are too many people talking. The only person who is authorised to talk is the one on the Floor. Can we consult quietly.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, to summarise the status of our prisons, I would like to quote, with your permission, Mr Kenneth Roth, the Executive Director of the Human Rights Watch, who, on a visit to the Zambian prisons, described them as follows:

“Zambian prisoners are starved, packed into cells that are unfit for human habitation and face beatings at the hands of certain guards (wardens) and/or fellow inmates. Children, pregnant women, pre-trial detainees, called remandees, and convicted criminals are condemned to brutal treatment and are at serious risk of contracting drug-resistant Tuberculosis (TB) and HIV/AIDS-related infections.”

Sir, this statement summarises the condition of our prisons today. As the Coalition for African Parliamentarians Against Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) (CAPAH), we had the opportunity to visit Chimbokaila Central Prisons in Lusaka. The condition of this prison is pathetic. When you enter the prison, you get a feeling of claustrophobia. The enclosure is suffocating because the area is too small for such a large number of inmates. It is a breeding ground for disease.

Mr Chairperson, the inmates sleep like packed sardines. They demonstrated to us how they sleep in what the French call the Soixante Neuf - 69 style where the head of one inmate is  put against the feet of another inmate to maximise on the small space that is available.

Sir, the holding cells are very small and lack ventilation. This prison was built before Independence and was adequate for the population then. However, currently, a cell that was designed for twenty inmates is occupied by 120 inmates. The toilets are not far from where the prisoners sleep and so there is no privacy. When an inmate goes to do the ‘big job’, everybody is watching him/her. As a result, there is a terrible stench in the prison.

Sir, I went to visit the prisons in Kabompo. The prisoners are also packed like sardines and they take turns to sleep. Some inmates sleep for four hours, then, the captain wakes them up to give a chance to the others to sleep. The prisoners are perpetually fatigued because they do not get enough sleep, which is very unhealthy.

Sir, due to the congestion, drug-resistant TB and HIV/AIDS are spreading in the prisons. Ultimately, it has also led to sexual behaviour that is foreign to this country, and that is sodomy. Sodomy, as you may be aware, is male-to-male-sexual intercourse. According to the 1999 National Prisons Survey on HIV/AIDS and the recent announcement by the Commissioner of Prisons, 27 per cent of inmates are HIV positive while 15 per cent have sexually transmitted infections (STIs).

Sir, the survey report states that between 1995 and 2000, 2,397 inmates and 263 prison staff died of HIV/AIDS-related illnesses.

Mr Chairperson, as mentioned earlier, the major risk behaviours are sodomy, tattooing and sharing of shaving instruments.

Sir, in order to curb the spread of HIV/AIDS in prisons, there are two schools of thought. According to the first school of thought, we need to distribute condoms. We should simply distribute them and people will decide whether or not to use them. The other school of thought is the traditional, cultural and legal one which calls for the prohibition of sodomy. The ministry should seriously consider what to do because whether you like it or not, this epidemic will affect the larger society.

Mr Chairperson, apart from distributing condoms, we need to look at the failure of the criminal justice system. When CAPAH visited Chimbokaila, we asked the inmates how many of them were detainees and how many were convicts. According to the survey results, about 50 to 60 per cent of the inmates were detainees and prohibited immigrants (PIs) and only 40 per cent were convicts.

Sir, to decongest the prisons, we should immediately put a system in place to clear detainees as quickly as possible. We found detainees that had been in Chimbokaila for two to five years without trial. Most of them said that they had no lawyers, and yet we have the Legal Aid System in Zambia. The Zambia Police and Zambia Prisons Service, Legal Aid and the entire legal system in the country should collaborate to ensure that detainees are cleared in order to decongest the prisons.

Mr Chairperson, to solve this problem, there are basically two long term and short-term measures that need to be taken. The long-term measures are meant to improve the small dilapidated facilities. Let us increase the capacity and improve the facilities, particularly with the newly-introduced weekend imprisonment system where most of us might find ourselves. The short-term measures entail clearing detainees within the shortest possible time. Further, the legal system must be designed in such a way that it facilitates the clearing of cases as quickly as possible.

The other recommendation, Sir, is that we need to improve food security in prisons. Starvation in prisons can easily be got rid of because we have the labour to engage in agriculture to produce enough food for the prisoners and sell the surplus. If this is done on a large scale, it will not only help the Zambia Prisons Service, but also the economy. Food prices will automatically reduce because the more food we have on the market, the less it will cost. We should seriously consider encouraging agriculture.

Mr Chairperson, agriculture is a skill that we can impart in the prisoners so that when they get back into society, they are meaningfully engaged and do not engage in vices that can get them back into prison. Other skills include carpentry, bricklaying and so on and so forth. Otherwise, they tend to go in and out of prison, which is detrimental to society because the habits they acquire from prison spill over into the larger society.

Mr Chairperson, prisoners do some work in the community and the prison is paid for it. This money should be put aside so that when an inmate is discharged from prison, he/she is given part of it to help him/her settle in society. With the skills that they learn from prison, they can use the money to buy tools and use the skills to earn a living. That way, they can be integrated into society without being stigmatised or being vulnerable to crimes that can land them in prison again.

 Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

The Chairperson: Before …

Mr Nkombo: There is a list.

The Chairperson: Exactly. This is why, sometimes, I take a moment or so before I call upon the next Member to take the Floor. We take down the names of those who are indicating to speak. If, as an afterthought, someone decides to debate when I have already drawn the list of the people who have indicated to speak, he/she will have to accept that, for me to be fair, I have to give priority to those who indicated earlier. If you are given the opportunity to speak, that will be fine. Otherwise, priority will be given to those who indicated earlier.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity to make a few remarks on the Vote for the Zambia Police Force. Over the years, the authority of police officers has withered and this is very unfortunate for our country.

Mr Chairperson, as we all know, when a police officer puts that uniform on, …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, on my left!

Professor Lungwangwa: … at that point, he/she officer is a representative of the President, hence he/she is exhibiting the authority of the Presidency. So, when a police officer stops a motorist in traffic, for example, …

Mr Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours to 1100 hours

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

The Deputy Chairperson: There is a technical fault in the microphones. Therefore, we will take a fifteen-minute break.

Business was suspended from 1104 hours to 1150 hours

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

The Deputy Chairperson: I am reliably informed that the technical problem has not been fully rectified. Therefore, we shall take a certain course.

(Debate adjourned)

_____________

The House adjourned at 1153 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday 12th November, 2013.

 _____________