DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 28th November, 2013

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

WASHISHI IMMIGRATION BORDER POST

200. Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West) asked the Minister of Finance:

(a)    how much of the money allocated for the construction of the Washishi Border Post Immigration offices in the 2012 National Budget had been disbursed, as of 30th September, 2013;

(b)    at what stage the project was; and

(c)    if the project had not commenced, why.

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, no money was allocated to the construction of Washishi Border Post Immigration offices in the 2012 National Budget. For that reason, no money was disbursed for the construction of the infrastructure in question by 30th September, 2013. However, K100,000 was allocated to the construction of border controls in Lukulu in the 2013 Budget. This money was for preparatory works and was released in full.

Sir, the budget is not at any stage because it did not commence. As I said, it was not budgeted for in 2012. 

Mr Speaker, the K100,000 released for the construction of Lukulu Border Control in 2013 was meant for changing the land from customary to State ownership and preparation of tender documents.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

COMMUNICATION TOWERS FOR SESHEKE WARDS

201. Mr Sianga (Sesheke) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the Government would facilitate the construction of mobile phone communication towers in the following wards in Sesheke Parliamentary Constituency:

(a)    Imusho;

(b)    Lwampungu; and

(c)    Ngweeze area in Kalobolelwa.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Col. Kaunda): Mr Speaker, the Government has prioritised the extension of mobile communication services to cover all unserved chiefdoms and other areas. In this regard, the Government, through the Zambia Information Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA), completed the tender process and awarded the contract for the rolling out of 169 communication towers to Huawei Technologies Company Limited on 2nd October, 2013. The contract value of the project is K70.3 million, and the contractor has started mobilising resources. It is expected that all the 169 towers would have been rolled out by September, 2014. Surveys to assess the requirement for extending mobile communication towers and associated services to other unserved areas that are not amongst those that will be served by the 169 to be rolled are ongoing. Imusho, Lwampungu and Ngweeze will be surveyed in the first quarter of 2014 under the next phase. The objective is to have the said areas covered by 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, whilst I appreciate the response, …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise this point of procedure.

Sir, sometime last month, Mr Mwale, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipangali, who is the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), moved a Private Member’s Motion in this House, which we passed overwhelmingly. The Motion was to prohibit the hon. Minister of Finance from borrowing or executing the money that has been borrowed without the supervision of this House. However, yesterday, we approved a Motion that was moved by the hon. Minister of Finance, which raised the threshold of the Government’s borrowing to K35 billion, thereby rendering the Motion moved by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipangali futile, irrelevant and frivolous. That risks causing the sovereign debt of this country to spin out of control, like we have seen happen in Greece, and changing the economic course of this country. So, is this House in order to behave like a casino? On one hand, we want to check the actions of the hon. Minister, on the other, we give him the authority to borrow up to the colossal sum of K35 billion.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Dr Kaingu: His decision to move that Motion shows that he has already spent the K20 billion. 

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is simple. There is a distinction between a Motion and a statutory provision. The Motion by Hon. Mwale was moved to persuade the Government to take a particular course of action. What happened yesterday was, actually, in compliance with an existing law, and the hon. Minister of Finance duly came before this House and sought the probation of the House. The law was complied with yesterday. So, we were not gambling.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: We were just complying with the provisions of the law, and we went the full course, which culminated into a vote, the outcome of which is binding on the House. Hon. Mwale’s Motion and what we did yesterday are as different as day and night.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: May the hon. Member of Parliament for Sesheke continue, please. 

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the response from the hon. Deputy Minister. However, could the Government ….

Mr Muchima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I apologise to my brother for disrupting his train of thought. 

Sir, it was only yesterday that the debt threshold of Zambia was raised by this Parliament. Debt contraction for the nation is necessary in a certain manner. In 2008, the Zambian Government contracted a US$33 million loan from the International Development Association (IDA), primarily to increase access to electricity in both urban and rural areas and improve efficiency in the supply of electricity in the targeted areas. This was meant to address the inadequate supply of electricity in many areas, especially the rural areas. Out of that money, US$17 million was meant for the construction of mini hydro power stations at Shikata in Kabompo, the North-Western Province, Kasanjiko …

Mr Speaker: I am getting anxious with the manner in which you are raising your point of order.

Mr Muchima: Sir, I just need to give some background.

Mr Speaker: Get to the procedural issue.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the loan was meant to benefit a few rural areas by mitigating the shortage of electricity in there. Two years down line, nothing has been done regarding the objectives of the loan facility. The hydro power stations have not been constructed and the reason is unknown. Is the hon. Minister of Finance in order to keep quiet and not explain to the people of Zambia where the US $17million is, and how and where it will be utilised, when these areas are in a dire need of electricity? As I speak today, Mwinilunga has no electricity.

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: My serious ruling is that you have not raised a procedural issue. Far from it. If you want that information, ask a question and we will convey it to the right.

Continue, Hon. Sianga.

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, whilst the people of Sesheke await the feasibility study and eventual erection of communication towers, can the ministry consider strengthening the signal so that the people in the mentioned area can be assisted.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, yes, indeed, we are in the process of doing that. In areas that are not completely covered by the current signal, we are putting transmitters so that they can have the minimum standard required.

I thank you, Sir.

________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

VOTE 89 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – K3,031,654,385).

(Consideration Resumed)

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Sichinga): Mr Speaker, when the House adjourned yesterday, I was presenting my ministerial statement in support of my ministry’s budget for 2014, and had indicated that my ministry comprised 28.5 per cent of the entire Yellow Book, from page 1023 to page 1584, which is 561 pages out of 1965. I had also said that we had thirty-six sub-heads under this ministry, and that the ministry has the responsibility to create 510,000 jobs over the next three years. I had also indicated that some of the works were done to bring us where we are this year. I had got to item number three, which was crop diversification. With your permission, I would like to continue from there.

Sir, in the past, the crop production pattern has been dominated by maize production. However, in our drive to promote agriculture diversification in the country, our ministry has started providing input subsidies on a variety of crops, among them, cotton, sorghum, rice and groundnuts. As a result of this measure, the crop sub-sector recorded an upward trend in total acreage devoted to crops other than maize.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Let us have order in the House. We are not listening.

Mr Sichinga: For instance, a comparison of the 2011/2012 Agricultural Season with the 2012/2013 one shows that the area devoted to soya beans has increased by 44 per cent, 23 per cent for rice, 63 per cent for sunflower, 12 per cent for groundnuts and 124 per cent for barley tobacco. These figures clearly demonstrate that the diversification of the agricultural sector is taking root. However, diversification is a long-term process and some of the benefits will not be evident in the near future, but in later years.

Sir, the fourth issue I would like to talk about is that of the strategic food reserves. 

Sir, it is necessary for Zambia to maintain a strategic food reserve of not less than five months of its annual industrial maize requirement. The national monthly maize requirement is currently estimated at 100,000 metric tonnes. Therefore, 500,000 metric tonnes of maize grain would be barely adequate to ensure national food security for five months. This year, our ministry, through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), has purchased 426,206 metric tonnes of maize for the strategic food reserves at a cost of K554 million. The shortfall from the planned 500,000 metric tonnes will be met from the carry-over stocks. This year, private sector players, millers and grain traders, were encouraged to procure their own stock for their annual needs. This was expected to lead to the procurement of an additional 850,000 metric tonnes by the private sector and, this morning, I had a meeting at which the millers indicated that they have sufficient stocks in their warehouses.

Sir, the fifth point I would like to make is on livestock development. Under the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP), our ministry plans to establish 1,400 one-stop livestock extension service centres. So far this year, the ministry has … 

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Please, let us have order on the right.

Mr Sichinga: ... constructed eighty-seven livestock centres out of the planned 185. The centres are intended to provide livestock extension services, such as dipping, spraying, vaccination, artificial insemination, de-worming, branding and castration. Further, the ministry has established livestock breeding and re-stocking centres in the following areas:

(a)    Mukulayikwa in Shibuyunji;

(b)    Mbesuma in Chinsali;

(c)    Kanchindu in Sinazongwe;

(d)    Chishinga in Kawambwa;

(e)    Kanyama in Mwinilunga;

(f)    Jiwindu in Solwezi;

(g)    Kalungwishi in Mporokoso;

(h)    Chief Mwase’s area in Lundazi, the Chairperson’s home area; and

(i)    Senanga in Shang’ombo District.

Laughter

The Chairperson: You are out of order, hon. Minister.

Laughter 

The Chairperson: Though you are right, you are not supposed to say that.

Laughter 

Mr Sichinga: Sir, progress has been made in stocking and re-stocking the centres with animals as shown in the following table:

Centre    Number of Animals        Total Animal Population
    Received. 

Mbesuma     134 Cattle    600

Kanyama     100 Cattle    170 

Chishinga     96 Cattle    ---

Kanchindu     127 Boer goats    ---
    in addition, 50 Brahman 
    cows have been procured 
    and will be delivered to
    Kanchindu within the 
    current week.

Mr Chairperson, during 2013, the ministry vaccinated 600,000 cattle against foot and mouth disease in the high risk areas of the Southern, Western, Central and Northern provinces. Currently, the ministry is in the process of vaccinating approximately 450,000 cattle against the contagious bovine pleural-pneumonia (CBPP) in the North-Western and Western provinces. 

Sir, under vaccine production, the ministry produced 660,000 doses of black leg vaccine, 380,000 doses of Viral Haemorrhagic Septicaemia (VHS), 47,850 doses of rabies vaccine and 210,000 doses of Newcastle disease. The ministry also deployed vaccines to 200 targets in order to protect the 5,000km2 area freed from tsetse fly infestation in Sesheke. Vaccines were also deployed to 200 targets over an area of 400km2 to reduce the tsetse fly infestation in Muyombe. 

Sir, during the year, there was an isolated outbreak of CBPP in Mpongwe, which affected 439 cattle. This matter was reported to this House, and I am delighted to report that the disease was eradicated from the area. Unfortunately, there is currently an outbreak of African Swine Fever in Lusaka Province. Our ministry is endeavouring to eradicate this disease in the shortest possible time. Currently, the pig population in Zambia is estimated at 856,566, of which about 33,000 are in Lusaka Province. So far, 3,084 pigs have been slaughtered at the affected farms, and the exercise is on-going. Of the 140 farms visited, so far, in Lusaka …

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!

There are too many people making loud consultations on both my right and left. Why are we not listening?

Mr Sichinga: Sir, eighteen farms with a combined population of 7,033 pigs are affected.

Sir, the sixth point I would like to make is on fisheries development. 

Sir, given Zambia’s vast water resource, the potential for fish production is enormous. The ascertained potential for commercial fish pond development in the country exceeds 38,000ha. Locations such as Rufunsa, Petauke, along the Luangwa River Valley, and Kafue Flats lend themselves well to aquaculture. However, current production levels are at about 80,000 metric tonnes, which falls far below the annual requirement, which is estimated at 120,000 metric tonnes. In order to increase fish production, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is promoting the following:

(a)    aquaculture among small-holders;

(b)    fish re-stocking, through tilapia cage-culture on lakes Kariba, Tanganyika and Bangweulu; 

(c)    construction of six fish hatcheries at the Government fish farms in Chilanga, Kafue, Kasama, Mansa, Chipata and Kitwe;

(d)    establishment of aqua parks in Chipepo, the Southern Province; Rufunsa, Lusaka Province; Kasempa, North-Western Province; and Mungwi, Northern Province;

(e)    development of fish fingerlings production units on the Copperbelt, Luapula, Lusaka and the Southern Provinces;

(f)    promotion of pen-culture in the Western Province in Sesheke, Mongu and Senanga districts; and

(g)    establishment of nurseries in Kaoma and other Government fish farms throughout the country.

Sir, I wish to move on to the seventh point, which is improved extension service delivery. 

Sir, the ministry has made important strides towards improving extension service delivery to farmers. To this effect, it has acquired 486 motorcycles for use by extension staff. There has also been a recruitment of 941 extension workers for the newly-created districts. This should provide us with improved extension service delivery, which is expected to contribute significantly to improved food production and productivity amongst small-scale farmers.

Mr Chairperson, my eighth point is on agricultural research. 

Sir, our ministry has continued its research activities during 2013 by conducting multi-location trials of root and tuber crops and grains like maize, rice, sorghum, millet, food legumes and oil seeds. Conservation of plant genetic resources has been done. Development and testing of water lifting devices for small-scale farmers, in light of changes in weather patterns, was also undertaken. In addition, a number of trials were conducted to determine fertiliser suitability for the different agro-ecological zones.

Mr Chairperson, the ninth point I wish to make is about the promotion of improved seed varieties. I am delighted to report that seed activities in various crops intensified throughout the country.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, on my left!

Mr Sichinga: This has resulted in the successful release of fourteen varieties out of the 132 tested. In addition, 67,000ha were under seed production of thirty-two crops, up from twenty-three crops the previous year.

Sir, the tenth item I wish to submit on is irrigation development. Under this programme, eight small-holder irrigation schemes were earmarked for construction and rehabilitation in 2013. However, due to inadequate funding, only five irrigation schemes in selected districts were constructed. The African Development Bank (ADB) funded the completion of Manyonyo Irrigation Scheme in Chikankata District, which I went to launch on Tuesday, 12th November, 2013. The Finish Government has also provided financial support for the completion of the irrigation schemes at Nzenga and in Sinazongwe District.

Sir, the eleventh point that I wish to touch on is the development of co-operatives. 

Sir, our ministry conducted a census of active co-operative societies in the country in which 14,000 co-operative societies out of the registered 28,000 submitted annual returns, showing that only 50 per cent of the registered co-operatives are active. In support of the co-operative movement, in 2013, the Government procured ten motor vehicles for the Zambia Co-operative Federation (ZCF) for co-operative member mobilisation.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to move on to the outlook for 2014. 

Sir, first of all, let us look at the challenges. The PF Government is aware that the agricultural sector is faced with a number of challenges which have, for many years, affected the performance of the sector. The constraints on the growth of this sector include:

(a)    high dependence on rain-fed production;

(b)    high cost of financing, if you can access it;

(c)    inadequate infrastructure;

(d)    livestock diseases;

(e)    over-fishing;

(f)    poor functioning of agricultural markets; and

(g)    inadequate access to extension services.

Sir, as a result of that, we have experienced low production and productivity, especially among small scale-farmers. Having identified these constraints, the Government will, in 2014, seek to address the bottlenecks. Our general thrust is to raise the contribution of the sector to the gross domestic product (GDP) from the current 19 per cent to a much higher figure. Ultimately, we aim for 55 per cent. The General thrust will also be to achieve enhanced investment for sustainable agricultural production and productivity of crops, livestock as well as fisheries. The Government has, therefore, prioritised programmes and interventions that have a huge potential to spur growth in the agricultural sector. We are also working towards creating the 510,000 jobs that have been assigned to us in order to contribute to poverty reduction over the short and medium term. 

Mr Chairperson, in order to achieve the above aspirations, the Government has allocated K3,031,654,385 to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock in the 2014 Budget. That represents a huge increase of 73 per cent compared with the K1,748,707,016 that was allocated in 2013. While this increase is appreciated, and will go a long way in enabling the ministry to discharge its mandate, it does not yet meet the entire requirement that will ensure that the ministry can expedite the implementation of all the programmes, projects and activities so as to increase its contribution to the GDP, as I have indicated. 

Sir, the next point I would like to touch on is the diversification of the crop sub-sector. In the crop sub-sector, the Government will support the diversification of crop production from maize to other food and non-food cash crops, such as cotton, tobacco, rice, sugarcane, coffee, pineapples, cashew nuts, sunflower, soya beans, cassava and groundnuts. The diversification will be achieved through the development of the provincial farming blocks to which foreign and local private sector investment will be attracted. These farming blocks will promote the production of a variety of crops, scale-up extension services to enable farmers to adopt better farming practices and expand the farmer input dealer points, expand the selling points for certified seed and invest in further research to develop high-yielding varieties of our various crops. Further, other crops, such as cotton, rice and groundnuts, will be included under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). The approach to crop diversification will be the promotion of crop production based on the agro-ecological conditions of the different regions. 

Sir, the next point I would like to make is on irrigation development. 

Mr Chairperson, since Zambia has abundant surface and underground water that has not been fully harnessed for agricultural development and, over the years, there have been low levels of investment in water development, there has been over-dependence on rain-fed agriculture. This is susceptible to the vagrancy of weather patterns. In order to ensure that farmers have abundant opportunities to grow a variety of crops throughout the year, irrigation development, through the construction of multi-purpose dams and irrigation schemes, and up-scaling of the utilisation of wetlands will be promoted. The PF Government is vigorously pursuing irrigation development at both the large-scale and small-holder farm levels, through the development of irrigation dams, canals and boreholes, and promotion of related technologies, such as centre pivot systems, in an attempt to bring over 17,000ha under irrigation in high potential areas over the next three years.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Sichinga: These include Nega-nega in Chikankata, Kanakantapa in Chongwe, Lusitu in Chirundu, Mwomboshi in Chisamba, Lumwana-Maheba in Solwezi, Katongo Kapala in Mpika, Nyampande in Petauke-Nyimba and Miloso in Mkushi.

Mr Chairperson, other investment and intervention in the crop sub-sector will include the promotion mechanisation of crop production. Systems are being developed through which the use of farm power equipment and animal draught power will be promoted to improve household nutrition through education and rehabilitation of farm institutes and farmer training centres (FTCs) throughout the country. In order to implement this key programme of agricultural research and seed development, the Government has allocated K114 million.

Sir, I talked about the potential for fisheries earlier. However, I wish to point out that destructive and unsustainable fishing methods, such as the use of chemicals and mosquito nets, and the degradation of fish habitats have contributed to reduced production of fish. The Government intends to address these challenges through sensitisation, establishment of core management structures and more vigorous patrols.

Further, Sir, the ministry will promote aquaculture and capture fisheries development. The strategic focus in 2014 will be the development and improvement of infrastructure for fisheries, research and marketing. Infrastructure development will involve the construction and rehabilitation of fish farms, jetties and laboratories, and the construction of fish hatcheries and nurseries in lakes Tanganyika, Kariba, Bangweulu and Mweru-wa-Ntipa. Besides the foregoing, emphasis will be placed on fish re-stocking in all major lakes. Investment in aqua parks will also be prioritised in 2014. Other interventions will include the development of fisheries marketing, through the construction of fish landing sites, market sheds and refrigeration facilities. To facilitate the implementation of these programmes, the sub-sector has been allocated K56 million.  

Mr Chairperson, Zambia has numerous opportunities in livestock production. These include poultry, small ruminants, pork, milk and, especially, beef production for both domestic and export markets. Despite these opportunities, the livestock sub-sector is being negatively impacted upon by several challenges. In order to overcome these challenges, the Government will intensify disease prevention and enhanced control measures in partnership with its co-operating partners, through the following measures:

(a)    implementation of primary animal health care and vaccination of cattle against foot and mouth disease and CBPP. I also mentioned of the 1,400 livestock centres which we will continue to implement this year;

(b)    compulsory primary animal health care will require farmers to dip their animals regularly and immunise them against common diseases, such as black leg, anthrax, amoebic septicaemia and Newcastle disease;

(c)    scaling up the production of vaccines to make them readily available to the farmers;

(d)    construction and rehabilitation of 702 communal dip tanks, of which 504 are earmarked for 2014, to ensure that small-scale farmers have access to dipping facilities;

(e)    clearing of about 5,000km2 of tsetse fly-infested areas, especially in the Kwando-Zambezi Basin, through aerial spraying. This will eliminate the threat of trypanosomiasis in these areas and free up large tracts of land for agricultural use. In other infected areas, the Government will use the tsetse targets method.

(f)    continued construction of facilities in the livestock disease-free zones shall include quarantine facilities and check points; and

(g)    establishment of a livestock identification and trace-back system. 

In addition, the Government will undertake the following measures to improve livestock production and productivity:

(a)    construction and rehabilitation of thirteen earth dams to increase the number of watering points, which will improve animals’ access to water;

(b)    enhancement of pasture development, through research and farmer training in pasture and range management;

(c)    establishment of ten satellite artificial insemination centres, one in each province, of which four have already been constructed in Lusaka Province at Chilanga, the Southern Province at Choma, the Central Province at Chibombo, and the North-Western Province at Solwezi. Six will be constructed in 2014 in the Northern Province at Mbala, Muchinga Province at Mpika, Western Province at Mongu, Eastern Province at Chipata, Luapula Province at Mwansabombwe, and Copperbelt Province at Luanshya Fisenge;

(d)    establishment of additional milk collection centres (MCCs) in all the areas with dairy production;

(e)    prioritisation of the livestock re-stocking and small ruminant development programmes in the short to the medium term. In 2014, the Government plans to re-stock about 6,000 animals, and the details will be provided to hon. Members on request;

(f)    completion of the construction of eighty-seven livestock extension service centres out of the 185 planned countrywide; 

(g)    increase of poultry production from the current 90,000,000 to 120,000,000, through the following interventions: 

(i)    incorporation of poultry production, including village chickens at household level, into the existing and new livestock production centres;

(ii)     provision of incubators to farmers’ groups and co-operatives; and

(iii)    provision of thermal stable vaccine for Newcastle disease. 

In order to achieve the foregoing development goals for the livestock sector, the Government has set aside K143 million in the 2014 Budget to cater for both livestock development and veterinary services. This figure includes the emergency disease control fund.

Mr Chairperson, the next item I wish to touch is on grain storage facilities. 

Sir, poor storage facilities for cereal crops at satellite and main holding depots cause high post-harvest losses annually. In order to mitigate this challenge, the Government has put measures in place to increase the FRA storage capacity from the current 750,000 metric tonnes to 1.2 million metric tonnes by the end of 2014, and to 2,000,000 metric tonnes by the end of 2020. Works on upgrading ninety-eight concrete slabs into covered sheds with an estimated total capacity of 500,000 metric tonnes will commence in 2014. A contract for this work has already been signed. In addition, the grain silos in Ndola, Kabwe, Chisamba, and Monze are undergoing rehabilitation to create an additional 82,500 metric tonnes of storage capacity. Further, new grain silos will be constructed in Kalomo, Kaoma, Chinsali, Mansa, Mufumbwe and Petauke to create an additional 225,000 metric tonnes of storage capacity. In total, K179.7 million has been allocated towards this programme.

Mr Chairperson, the Government is undertaking a fundamental reform of FISP with a view to enhancing its effectiveness. This will involve an increased participation of the private sector in the supply of agricultural inputs to small-scale farmers. This will be achieved through the introduction of a streamlined and more efficient E-Voucher or card system.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, FISP will be expanded to benefit the entire Agriculture Diversification Programme, including crop, livestock and fisheries.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, K174 million has been allocated to the implementation of the programme while the total for the 2014/2015 FISP is K326 million.

Mr Chairperson, the aforementioned programmes require a well-trained and seasoned human resource cadre. In order to achieve the objectives of our programme, the ministry will seek to expand student enrolment in our various colleges from the current 4,026 to 5,000.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, this will call for the rehabilitation of existing college infrastructure and acquisition of equipment. Consequently, K10.7 million has been allocated to the rehabilitation of the Co-operative College, the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC), Sinazongwe Fisheries Training Centre (SFTC), Zambia Institute of Animal Health in Mazabuka (ZIAH), and the Zambia College of Agriculture (ZCA) in Monze and Mpika in the 2014 Budget.

Mr Chairperson, the last point I wish to make is on how we can make agriculture a profitable business.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I wish to emphasise that one of the key strategic areas of focus in the 2014 Budget for the ministry is that of treating agriculture as a viable business venture. This will be done through the following:

(a)    reforms of policies and the legislative framework, which will include the full operationalisation of the Agriculture Credit Act, and review of the agricultural marketing processes and systems, as directed by the President;

(b)    promotion of co-operatives development;

(c)    revitalisation of value addition and agro processing, particularly in the rural areas. This will be in agro processing areas, including those in Kalomo;

(d)    entrepreneurship training for farmers;

(e)    establishment of district farming blocks and agricultural commodity marketing and service centres; and

(f)    collaboration with respective ministries in rehabilitating market-related infrastructure, such as electricity supply and feeder roads, by respective ministries of the Government.

Mr Chairperson, our ministry truly believes that agriculture can be the strong foundation for the economic and social development of our country. It will, therefore, be critical that adequate resources are provided, and it is my responsibility to appeal to the hon. Members of this august House to support the 2014 Budget Estimates for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock for, without your approval, there can be no support to farmers, and that would result in no agricultural output and no food, hence, no nutrition for the country. 

I thank you, Sir.    

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to make some observations and comments on the budget for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, and on the statement made by the hon. Minister. However, before I do that, I would like to do something that I forgot to do the last time I debated, and that is to welcome our new hon. Member of this House.

Interruptions

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, I forget his name.

Laughter

Ms Imenda: I am told that his name is Hon. Chilufya. 

You are welcome, Hon. Chilufya.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to go straight to the statement by the hon. Minister on crop diversification from maize. I would like to believe that that the crop diversification includes rice, and that it means paying attention to rice growing, too.

Mr Chairperson, while still on this subject, I would like to urge the Government to look at the price of rice because the K65 introduced this year is not competitive. It disadvantages the rice growers. For example, in Mongu, …

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, I apologise to the hon. Member who is debating very well.

Sir, the integrity of this House is questionable in the sense that we have gone to the extent of rigging the results when there was voting after a division was called. Yesterday, there was a division on the Motion to raise the external borrowing threshold.

Mr Muntanga: A very bad Motion.

Ms Lubezhi: When I went through the results that are displayed in this folder and took stock of the people who were in the House, I discovered that Mrs Annie Chungu, who is currently out of the country, appears on the list of those who voted in favour of the Motion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, is this House in order to display rigged results? This House does not allow people to vote in absentia. 

I seek your serious ruling as I lay the paper on the Table.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Lubezhi laid the paper on the Table.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Under normal circumstances, I would have said that the point of order is irrelevant to our current discussion. The rules for raising points of order have been clearly spelt out. The point of order must demonstrate that the procedure or decorum of the House has been flouted, or that the subject of the point of order is relevant to the current business. This point of order is on something that happened yesterday. So, I could have said that it cannot be sustained. However, in view of the gravity of the issues it raises, I reserve the ruling to a later stage.

May the hon. Member for Luena continue, please.

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, before the point of order was raised, I was saying that the Government floor price for rice is not favourable to the farmers. For example, in Luena Constituency, there is an area called Nangili. Maybe, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock is aware that the FRA or some other institution sent people to go there and purchase rice. Those people were in the area for one month, but did not get even one bag because the farmers were not willing to sell their rice at K65 when they are able to sell it at K90.00 to K130.00 on the open market. So, the K65 was very unwelcome.

Sir, may I also talk about the issue of fisheries. You will recall that, in my earlier debate on another Head, I mentioned two departments in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock that I said needed to be done away with because they are not doing their job, namely, the Department of Fisheries and the Department of Forestry, although forestry is not under this ministry.

Mr Chairperson, I just wanted to note that there is a provision for the introduction of a radio programme in both the Yellow Book and the Budget Speech. So, I would like to welcome … 

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!
 
Ms Imenda: … that element because it will help in sensitising the people involved in fishing activities against using obnoxious fishing methods, and I think that the hon. Minister mentioned that. That is a welcome move. There really is a need for a radio programme to encourage people to stop using destructive fishing methods because they have depleted our fish stocks. As you may already know, this year, you can hardly get fish in the Western Province. I am sure that it is the same situation even in other areas. 

Sir, bad fishing methods are not welcome. Therefore, I hope that the radio programmes will be used to educate and sensitising people against bad fishing methods.

Mr Chairperson, I also would like to encourage the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to intensively monitor fishing activities. In fact, I would go as far as to suggest that a statutory instrument banning such activities be issued. Maybe, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock should work in collaboration with the Ministry of Home Affairs, and I believe that my colleague, the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Kampyongo, with whom I do conservation work, can be very helpful in that regard. The monitoring efforts of the Ministry of Agriculture can be reinforced by the collaboration of the police. Anybody found with very small sizes of fish should be arrested. 

Sir, I also suggest that there should be sensitisation even for village headmen, who should be told that they will be the ones who will be held accountable if their subjects are found using obnoxious fishing methods.

Mr Chairperson, still on fishing, there is a provision for promoting aquaculture in Mongu District, but I note that there is no such provision in Limulunga District, in which Luena Constituency falls. I would like to inform the House and the country at large that most of the good-flavoured fish from Mongu actually comes from Luena and Senanga. The ministry has left out Limulunga District in aquaculture promotion, but I hope that it can be provided for next year.

Sir, Luena is very famous for fish. There is an old saying in Silozi, which goes like, ‘Luena lwa milomo kuli wandi na nyama.’

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: That means, “When you go to Luena, prepare your stomach for plenty meat and meat.” ‘Ndi’ means fish. Of course, the saying portrays a situation that no longer exists. Of late, because successive Governments have neglected that area, maybe, it is not the same any more. However, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock can re-generate our fish stocks so that Luena can regain its former glory in that area.

Mr Chairperson, I note that there is a K213,000 provision for livestock development in the district. There is also a small provision for livestock costs. I just found out whether this is meant for cattle re-stocking because Luena’s cattle stocks have drastically reduced in the recent past because of cattle diseases and stock thefts. Again, I would like the Monitoring Department of the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to liaise with the Ministry of Home Affairs on how to bring the culprits to book so that we can save our cattle.

Mr Chairperson, speaking of cattle and livestock, I would like to discuss a very thorny issue, which is at the heart of the people of the Western Province, particularly those in Luena, which is the long-standing ban on cattle movement. This ban disadvantages the people of the Western Province and those in Luena, as it robs them of competitive prices and income. People cannot bring cattle from the province to the line of rail where they can fetch a high price. So, the market is biased against them. The abattoirs like Keembe Meat Products are the ones that dictate the prices. You go with your cow, but they determine how much they will pay you, and it is normally a small amount. 

Sir, I do not know how quickly the hon. Minister can work on fighting cattle diseases because people want to bring their cattle here so that they can fetch a high price like the rice farmers do. I mentioned, earlier, what happened in Nangili. Your people went there to try to buy rice at K65 per 25kg bag, but they did not get any because the rice growers can bring their rice to the line of rail where it fetches higher prices in addition to people who go there from here to buy rice. We would like to see the same thing happen in the cattle sub-sector. 

Mr Chairperson, I would also like to talk about the issue of disease control. 

Sir, we are aware that some of the diseases come from Angola. However, when I checked through the Budget, I did not see much provision for the control of cattle movement from Zambia to Angola and vice versa. That brings me to the famous cordon line, for which I did not see provision. I looked at Sikongo District, which has a border with Angola, but has only been allocated K22,000 for poultry development. I also looked at Sioma, which also borders Angola, but has only been provided with K28,000 for poultry. That is not adequate to fight cattle diseases, and that will consign the cattle owners in the Western Province to perpetual poverty even though they have an asset that they can convert into money. 

With those few words, I strongly support the Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this Vote. I would also like to welcome the new hon. Member for Mansa Central to the House and congratulate him on winning the by-election. Since we are on agriculture, I would also like to congratulate the first female President of the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU), Dr Evelyn Nguleka, on her election to that position.

Sir, it is well known that agriculture is a key contributor to the growth of the economy, and that 80 per cent of the contribution is made by small-scale farmers of about 800,000 mostly rural households over 25 per cent of which are headed by women.

Mr Chairperson, agriculture in Zambia has grown over the years, and that has resulted in the bumper harvests that we have been recording. It was not an accident that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) recorded a bumper harvest. It took hard work, commitment and planning. I would like to note that this growth was more prominent during the reign of the late Dr Mwanawasa, SC., and was continued by the immediate Former President, Mr Banda. That moved us from being importers of maize to being exporters. God forbid that we should be taken back to being importers by the disorganisation that we currently see in the management of the agricultural sector, especially that some of the people who mismanaged the sector sometime back are now hon. Ministers, including His Honour the Vice-President under the PF Government. I would like to emphasise that we should never go back to the yellow maize that we ate during the time that they ran the sector.

Mr Chairperson, the bumper harvests and the good performance took hard work and commitment. It was the love of the MMD Government for the people that contributed to the good performance and policies in agriculture. What we have seen of late is really worrisome. I will not hesitate to comment on the performance of the agriculture sector, which is a main contributor to the economy, without fear or favour. I have always asked why the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock has had the most questions to answer through points of order. This shows us that there is a problem.

Mr Mwamba: Question!

Laughter 

Ms Kalima: Sir, the people of Zambia and those in Kasenengwa, in particular, are concerned and have complained because of the way agriculture is currently managed in the country. That is the reason you see the hon. Minister trotting to this House to answer questions. This also shows you that there is poor planning. I have always said that planning is key to success and goes along with implementation. Poor planning will cost us dearly.

Sir, I wanted to give the background. That is why I had to speak about planning and what is currently happening in the country. 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about the E-Voucher System. On that, I refer you to page 1067 in the Yellow Book, under Programme 1253, Activity 005 – Pilot Establishment of the Input Voucher System – Nil. Last year, the allocation to this activity was K110,491,885. However, the programme failed but, if you investigate further, you will find that some money was drawn out of the K110 million and used. What I am trying to illustrate is that poor planning is costly. 

Sir, the hon. Minister has, on a number of occasions, bragged on the Floor of this House that the E-Voucher Programme would take off. Even now, he speaks of there being K174,117,546 that has been budgeted for rolling out the programme in 2014. I hope that is not just another talk show. I am saying so because we have continued to hear about things that have not been implemented. Planning is very important before we can start talking. We had money spent out of the K110 million, yet the programme did not take off. 

Mr Chairperson, secondly, when the hon. Minister came to this House shortly after taking over from his predecessor, he spoke about how he would ensure that farming inputs were delivered on time and concluded by September, 2013. However, this is November and the inputs have not been delivered. Yesterday, he mentioned that we would have all the inputs delivered by the end of December, this year. I want to state that it is a sign of a lack of planning for someone to keep giving inconsistent positions on an issue. 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kalima: Sir, the urea or top-dressing fertiliser, which the hon. Minister promised would be distributed, has been marooned in Dar-es-Salaam. Now, instead of distributing the urea, the hon. Minister is talking about hiring 200 trucks from Dar-es-Salaam. The question is: Was the tender awarded? People have asked how much the landed cost of the fertiliser was. Was it really cheap to order the fertiliser from Saudi Arabia? Why did we not conduct a pilot project? If there was planning, the hon. Minister would have implemented a pilot project in which he would have probably bought 50 per cent of the fertiliser from local sources, such as Nyiombo Investments Limited and Omnia Fertiliser Zambia Limited, and the other 50 per cent from Saudi Arabia in order for …

Interruptions

Ms Kalima: … him to understand the cost of implementation. To my surprise, that was not done due to a lack of planning. Now, we have a chaotic situation in which we are not sure if this cheap urea will benefit the country and whether it will reach the targeted farmers in Kasenengwa. The rain is pouring down, yet there is no seed, basically because the seed companies were not paid on time. They have been hesitant to supply the seed before they are paid their arrears. The question is: Even if Compound-D Fertiliser has been distributed, what comes first? Is it the seed or the fertiliser? What the people of Kasenengwa and I are looking forward to is an increase in this budget in order to expand the access to market and trade information. 

Mr Chairperson, there has been a challenge with regard to trade information for a long time. This year, we have seen a number of farmers sell their maize to private traders, such as Cargill Trading Corporation, at a cheaper price. We have even heard the hon. Minister confess that the ministry had failed to reach its target of 500,000 metric tonnes of strategic food reserves. So, we expect that more money would be allocated to efforts to avoid this situation. More money should have gone into the improvement of inadequate organisation and ability and poor supply and distribution of the inputs. Why should we spend borrowed money on rehabilitating silos with a combined capacity of 1,200 metric tonnes? Would it not have been prudent to work on the silos and increase the capacity slowly rather than to talk about borrowing? Wanting to do everything at the same time is causing us to start looking for money elsewhere. 
 
Mr Chairperson, I have observed that, of late, there has been a lot of talking. I think that it is important and prudent for the hon. Minister to go back to the drawing board and ensure that, in the future, there is more work done before we begin talking. For example, there has been a lot of talk about the E-Voucher System. Probably, it would be important also to put more money in the extension service. 

Sir, talking about the extension service, I would like to congratulate the Conservation Farming Unit (CFU). I know that it works with the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, but it has done so much to educate the small-scale farmers on the usage of herbicides. We have seen that from the investment that the CFU has put in. If the ministry could look after its extension officers and put in more money in the service, this country would develop, especially that we have an example provided by the CFU. It is a testimony. 

Sir, in conclusion, I urge the hon. Minister to ensure that there is more planning. There should be less talking on the Floor of this House, in the media and everywhere. We should also minimise on the announcements. When in the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, the current hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock made announcements about industrial clusters, which also failed to take off. This is just advice from an expert. I am an agronomist with a Master’s in Business Administration (MBA), a business woman and a mother. I am, therefore, speaking without malice. I am merely advising. Please, let us ensure that we do less talking and more implementation. I am available for consultation.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga indicated.

Hon. Opposition Members: Order!

Laughter

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me and the people of Kaputa this opportunity to support the Vote of the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock that the hon. Minister has just debated. 

Mr Chairperson, agriculture, as the hon. Minister has stated, is an economic driver for this country. If well natured and promoted, I am pretty sure that we should be even able to forget about the monies that come from copper. This is an industry that can contribute not only to job creation, but also to the foreign exchange that we earn, as a country. It also has the ability to empower our people, including those in the urban areas, through value addition. It can also empower almost all the rural people because they depend on agriculture and move everybody to levels where we would enjoy living in Zambia. {mospagebreak}

Sir, I fully support the amount of money that has been allocated to this sector, although other debaters will indicate that it does not meet the requirements of regional and international protocols that Zambia subscribes to. When you look at the amount, which is K3 billion, compared with the K1.7 billion that was allocated in the 2013 Budget, this increment should have been adequate to address a number of challenges that we have in this sector. However, the larger portion of this allocation will go to FISP and the building and renovation of silos. Looking at the figures, they probably take up to 50 per cent of what should actually go to what we could call the engine or drivers of the agricultural sector, which are programmes to do with agricultural research. We will definitely not move, as a country, if the allocations to agricultural research are not sufficient to drive the sector. I know that this country has invested heavily in this activity in the past. We have very qualified researchers in the agricultural sector who can be compared with anybody in the world. However, the amount of money or support that goes to the agricultural research institutions is not adequate. We could move this country further if we put more resources into these drivers.

Mr Chairperson, the other driver of the agricultural sector is the extension service. The knowledge that is generated from research should be translated to the farmers or those who will apply it. Knowledge from research is not worth generating if it does not reach the farmer. Therefore, the extension service is very important. We know that there are allocations to the activity in this Budget, but they are not enough. 

Sir, the hon. Minister has talked about the recruitment of 900 extension workers and procurement of the motorcycles, probably, even some vehicles for extension workers, but I will still say that this is not enough because we know, for sure, that this country is vast. All areas of Zambia require extension workers at the block level. Therefore, these activities that should drive this sector must be allocated sufficient resources.

Mr Chairperson, the money that has been allocated to irrigation development is very welcome. If the resource envelop was sufficient, we would have asked for more funds to be allocated to irrigation development. If you went to Buleya Malima in Sinazongwe, somewhere in the valley, you would find an irrigation system that was developed some time back. If funds could be allocated to schemes like that, you would empower almost the whole community in that area. They could grow not only the winter crops like wheat and vegetables, but also the summer crops. In short, they would have production throughout the year. So, putting more money in irrigation development would be the energy that could drive this country forward. 

Mr Chairperson, allow me to look at the fisheries sub-sector in agricultural production. This country has been blessed. We have vast quantities of water in the country. Probably, in the whole of Central Africa, we are the most blessed country in this regard. Therefore, I see no reason why Zambia should import fish from China, considering the waters we have, such as those of the Zambezi River and the flats in Luapula and in the Northern Province. In fact, if we do not change this trend, our children and grandchildren will judge us harshly. Some areas of the Northern Province have rivers and streams that never dry out. Throughout the year, they flow with water, and we have fisheries and extension officers with a lot of training.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: So, when we talk about fishing methods and stocking and re-stocking of fish, we have what it takes to do a good job, as a country. I think that what this department needs is financial support.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about many programmes that the PF Government is putting in place, including the nurturing of the commercial entities that are keeping fish in cages. We would want to go further and ensure that they are empowered. Mpende on Lake Tanganyika in Nsumbu National Park is one of the ventures that could be nurtured. If they are empowered, we will be empowering the people in those areas to earn a living by supplying fish to the companies in some kind of outgrower scheme. The importation of fish from China can be halted. I am pretty sure that the hon. Minister and the officers in this department can help the Government to turn things around. 

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, for us to continue to import fish is inexcusable. We must do something to turn things around.
 
I know, Mr Chairperson, that there is a lot that we are doing in the livestock sector. I am sure that, as people whose training is in this sector, we have the answers to the challenges that face us. Our technocrats in the ministry have the answers. They know what should be done in the livestock sub-sector to move Zambia to a level where it can not only rear livestock for local consumption, but also contribute to our GDP through the export of livestock products. We just have to find ways of turning this industry around because it can contribute effectively to our agricultural output and the economy. 

Mr Chairperson, allow me to briefly talk about the burning issue of the supply of agricultural inputs. I totally agree with our Government’s intention to supply inputs to small-scale farmers so that they can to produce more. 

Mr Shamenda crossed the Floor.

Hon. Opposition Members: Order!

The Chairperson: Order! 

Let us observe order, hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security. You are not supposed to move between the person debating and the Chair.

Laughter

Continue, Hon. Ng’onga.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, I was talking about the issue of input supply and the need for timeliness. I, probably, do not know of any industry that requires time-keeping like agriculture. It is an industry that requires …

Mr Shamenda moved to another seat.

Hon. Opposition Members: Order!

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security, you are doing exactly what you have been asked not to do.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, agriculture thrives on the timely implementation of programmes. If you miss the timing, then you can as well forget any positive performance in that particular time. The industry is time-specific. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, I know that inputs have been planned for and they were supposed to be distributed to the farmers, but the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock must be assisted ... 

Hon. Opposition Members: How?

Mr Ng’onga: ... by the Treasury, probably.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, in the Treasury, we must be able to proactively plan for the expenditure on agricultural input supply so that we are able to fund the programme on time. For example, a decision to import fertiliser from Saudi Arabia should probably be made around February and March. Any time later than that is likely to delay the programme. In fact, we are probably much better this time. There have been years when we have imported inputs November and December, and they did not arrive in this country on time because the ports get congested at that time of the year because of many things that are imported. If, therefore, we have to import anything for the agricultural sector, we have to plan for it early in the year. We are better off spending money on local suppliers and manufacturers of agricultural inputs because, at the end of day, the inputs are closer to the farmers.  

Sir, my debate was basically leading to the conclusion that we must all be involved and that we know that things will definitely be done better in the future. 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to debate this Vote. 

Sir, there is no doubt that the hon. Minister need to be helped, …  

Mr Mufalali: Yes, by us.

Mr Nkombo: … and it is common knowledge that only those who seek help get it.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: On this Vote, I wish to just dwell on a few topics, which will include FISP, the local players vis-à-vis input supply, irrigation, which the hon. Minister referred to, livestock and the FRA. 

Sir, the English say, “Show me your friends, and I will tell you your character.” There is also a common saying that the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting and I often share. We like to say, “Only serious people meet at livestock services in the showgrounds from time to time.”

Mr Kapeya: It is true.

Laughter 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, for any hon. Minister or hon. Deputy Minister to be successful in this ministry, they must know that touching the soil is not a sign of being dirty. As the hon. Minister was making the policy statement, I had the impression that he would qualify to be a lecturer in accountancy at Oxford University, not doing the dirty work of tilling the land. 

Sir, I also adopt the tail-end of Hon. Ng’onga’s debate as my own. Agriculture is a time-specific business. When one misses the clock, he or she cannot make a day twenty-five hours long. The day ends at twenty-four. A week ago, Hon. Muntanga moved a Motion to try to create that twenty-fifth hour in order for our farmers to get the benefit of the timely delivery of inputs. Unfortunately, the hon. Members on your right shamelessly shot it down. As I speak to you, farmers in Mazabuka have not received seed. 

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: If you go to the offices of District Commissioners (DCs) and District Agricultural Co-ordinating Officers (DACOs), you will find queues of Tongas and other serious people like the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting waiting for seed. 

Mr Muntanga: There is no seed. 

Mr Nkombo: In the midst of all this, we have a lot of rain. This is an opportunity lost, and it beats me why the hon. Minister spent time talking about increasing the holding capacity of the FRA. What do you want to store? Unless, of course, God does you a favour again, your harvest is likely to be poor next year, and that brings me to the crunch of the matter, importation of agricultural inputs.  

Sir, I want to dwell on importation of inputs for the next four minutes or so. We have been told that the reason this Government imported fertiliser from Saudi Arabia was to save money. I want to demonstrate to you why I think that you have not saved this country’s money. 

Sir, a letter of credit was drawn, the figures calculated and inputs imported. The Executive said that importing fertiliser would be more economical for the country than procuring it from Nyiombo Investments Limited and Omnia Fertiliser Zambia Limited, who are in the country and in a position to supply tonnes and tonnes of fertiliser. 

Hear me, Sir, the cargo that was offloaded in Dar-es-Salaam was in bulk. 

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: If it was not, well and good. However, if it was in bulk, there must have been some bagging exercise at the port that cost money. 

Secondly, Sir, we were told that some officials had gone to the port, which was a misplacement of assignments. Maybe, I did not hear properly, but I am sure that the hon. Minister said that even the Director of Public Prosecutions (DPP) was in the entourage of the people who went to Dar-es-Salaam for negotiations. The hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central indicated that there was a legal suit on the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA). However, how can the DPP go to litigate over a matter of demurrage? To those of us who understand, demurrage is another cost. When cargo is not moved in time from the port, port owners charge a storage fee. It would be interesting, after the dust settles down, to see the hon. Minister to come back to this House give us the figures, on one column, the right one, how much it would have cost this Government to source the fertiliser from Nyiombo Investments Limited and Omnia Fertiliser Zambia Limited and, on the other, how much it cost us to import from Saudi Arabia, from the letter of credit right up to the demurrage. 

Sir, there is also the issue of transportation. Not long ago, we were told that Tanzanian companies had been hired to move the cargo to Zambia because it was cheaper to do so. I chatted with the hon. Minister of Defence, Mr G. B. Mwamba, and he told me that he was a transporter. However, he also told me that his company could not get involved in this transportation business because it would mean going with empty trucks to Dar-es-Salaam and being paid only after delivering the cargo to Zambia. I asked him, “Hon. G. B. M., what is wrong with you? You are in the Government and running the affairs of the State.” Running Government affairs requires a holistic approach. Instead of antagonising Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), you should have negotiated for it to bring the fertiliser from Dar-es-Salaam after taking its copper exports there because, after all, business is all about negotiations. We could have told the KCM that it uses our prescribed transporters, and that we needed to use them to bring in the fertiliser. That way, the trucks could have gone loaded and come back loaded, and we would have empowered Hon. G. B. M. and his 200 Zambian employees, instead of empowering some Saudi Sheik wearing a turban. 

Laughter 

Mr Livune: Terrorist!

Mr Nkombo: That is what I am talking about, and the story does not end there. The Government moved the cargo using Tanzanian transporters, to whom they paid money, which ended up in Morogoro. After that, we were told that that the fertiliser had come. However, where is this fertiliser going? There is nowhere to offload the fertiliser. That is another cost, whether one likes it or not. Maybe, you will distribute this fertiliser straight from the trucks to the farmers, which is impossible. A thirty-tonne truck can never get to Kabanje. You have to decant it into a holding space where documentation will be issued. Then, later, you have to reconcile the things to circumvent thefts, Bwana Mkubwa.  

Sir, if one moved this cargo straight from the trucks to the farms, how will one account for it? There is another cost if you do things the conventional way, which is to put the fertiliser in a warehouse. That costs. I would like the hon. Minister to indicate the cost of warehousing on the cost for importing the fertiliser, even if the fertiliser is stored for only a week. Although I do believe that it will even take a week because the Government is now in panic mode. The cargo will go straight from the trucks to the co-operatives and, then, to the farmer, which will result in thefts. I want to also see the amount of pilferage that will result from this panic situation factored into the cost of importing the fertiliser. 

Sir, in-land transportation costs also include insurance. That is a cost. I am sure that the hon. Minister agrees with what I am saying. 

Hon Livune: He is an accountant.

Mr Nkombo: You cannot move cargo worth 50,000 metric tonnes of fertiliser uninsured because, along the way, as you go through Mokambako and Morogoro into Mbeya, some trucks will overturn and there will be losses. I would like to know what that will translate to when the dust settles.

Mr Chairperson, there is also the issue of handling the fertiliser from the trucks, in this case, or the warehouse, in a normal situation, to the farm. There will be costs associated with the tearing of the bags and re-packaging and weighing. All those things must be compounded, after which the hon. Minister should come back and tell me whether it would not have been more cost-effective to engage Omnia Fertiliser Zambia Limited and Nyiombo Investments Limited who, collectively, have more than 1,000 Zambian employees. Who have we been empowering? The Saudi man with a turban? You would have been better off depending on the levels of savings, …

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … to leave that money here with Zambians. There is nothing wrong with empowering Hon. G. B. M. because, ultimately, he will pay Zambian workers, some of whom may be my relatives. That is my point, which I am sure, is very clear. I have four minutes remaining, yet I still have much to say. 

Sir, the Minister spoke about irrigation. You know, sometimes, I worry. Not long ago, I had long meetings with His Honour the Vice-President in his office because, in February, this year, a dam in Mugoto, which is in Nega-nega, about 67km from Lusaka — 

Sir, I have decided to respond because the hon. Minister said that there will be some irrigation projects in Chikankata. For his information, Mugoto Dam burst on 19th January, 2013. I went with Hon. Kalaba, who was hon. Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office, with cameras all over as if it were the Cable News Network (CNN) covering a news item. Hon. Kalaba said that the PF was a serious Government and that the bill of quantities (BOQ) would be taken to the area the following day, blah, blah, blah.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Even the hon. Deputy Minister for the Southern Province is aware of what I am talking about. If it was about the conception of a baby, it would have been born by now because it is now nine months later. However, His Honour the Vice-President now says that there was a BOQ and, then, that there was this and that. Eventually, I am finally told by the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) that the programme would not proceed, yet he says that he wants to promote irrigation and build dams. How can he do that when he cannot repair a dam. The BOQ was only K2 million, but that dam at Mugoto, which I need you to understand caters for more than 5,000 herds of cattle, could not be repaired. If you do not value that, but only value the T-bone that you see in a restaurant, then, there is a problem.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Had that dam been repaired, we would have saved the herds of cattle in the area. Someone enjoys T-bone and sirloin steak every day, yet they do not know where the meat came from. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: It is from Mugoto Dam, and I want to say it loudly and clearly that, when people called this morning to ask me what was going on, I told them, “Mwakasala chaali.”

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: What does that mean?

Mr Nkombo: It means, “You chose deliberately.” It means that the people chose the PF. That is what I told the councillor to tell the people. They chose deliberately early in the morning and said, “Pabwatofye.”

Mr Livune: PF circus.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: That is what you get for choosing “pabwatofye.”

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: My advice to the hon. Minister is that he goes to repair Mugoto Dam before he builds any new dam. Show some seriousness. Do not start building castles in the air. Go and repair Mugoto Dam because it requires your services. Then, the cows will survive. Do not give me a lengthy cluster of plans. Just repair Mugoto Dam. That is the challenge for you, and I will sing the song that Zambians deliberately chose what they are going through by voting for the PF. 

Sir, there is so much that can be said but, as I wind up, I wish to say that, like Botswana, we can also be a net exporter of beef. My challenge is that the progress in that area should begin here, in this House. Instead of going to eat T-bone every day, you must have a shamba, hon. Members.

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
 Chair]

RULING BY THE CHAIRPERSON

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY HON. MOONO LUBEZHI, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR NAMWALA

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, I have a ruling to make.

Hon. Members, after verifying Division List No. 2 with the electronically-generated voting list on the Motion moved by the hon. Minister of Finance, we have discovered that the mistake of including Mrs A. Chungu, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lufwanyama, was made by our Secretariat, which manually processes the Votes and Proceedings of the House. The correct entry should have been Mr Steven Chungu, the hon. Member for Luanshya, … 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: … but what was recorded was Mrs A. Chungu, Lufwanyama.

We sincerely apologise to Hon. Mrs A. Chungu for misrepresenting her in the House that she voted when she did not, and Hon. Steven Chungu, the Member of Parliament for Luanshya, for omitting him from the Division List. We also apologise to the House for this mistake and promise that the list will be corrected accordingly.

I thank you.

__________

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity to continue with my debate on the Vote for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. 

Sir, I think that the point has really been driven home and, maybe, my final say should be that the hon. Minister’s success is mine as well. There is nothing wrong with consulting others. Some things you will know, others you will not. The tragedy is to stand firm, thinking you know everything, just to realise, when things have gone bad, that you should have listened to advice. A person like the hon. Member of Parliament for Livingstone could be very well placed in that ministry because he understands, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … that man.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, firstly, I thank you for this rare opportunity to participate in this debate. Secondly, and this should probably have been my first call, I congratulate and welcome my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mansa Central, Dr Chilufya, to Parliament. In welcoming him, as a veteran and his brother, I counsel him that many things have been said here, some of them in passing, others may seem to be jokes but, on a serious note, do not forget your roots. You emerged victorious in the elections because of your good human relations. I will help you. Today, you are in Parliament and have acquired new friends. If you are not careful, you will get carried away and forget your roots and the people you started with.

Mr Livune: The MMD, eh?

Hon. Government Members: Aah! Yashani, iyo?

Mr Mbulakulima: I want to assure you, as a brother, that there is a difference between a by-election and a general election. In a by-election, everyone puts in his or her best effort. However, when it comes to general elections, it is each one for himself and God for us all.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: So, remember the plight of your electorate. Definitely, I would have loved to have my twin brother speak for the people of Luapula, but it had to be this way. As the hon. Member of Parliament for Mansa Central, which is the Provincial Headquarters for Luapula, there is a bigger picture beyond your constituency. I want to believe that I will count on you to work with others to develop the province. Keep calm, as you have always done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Secondly, and still on the subject, as it was said under the Vote for the Ministry of Finance, we should separate personalities from the ministries. There are certain critical ministries like Health; Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education; Local Government and Housing; and Agriculture and Livestock, on which you can comment and be mistaken to be aiming your statements at the hon. Minister, as an individual, instead of the policies and the office. The truth is that we are only interested in the offices because we hold them dear in our hearts.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock is special. It is actually a universally known fact that development will not make sense only in the statistical projections and quotations by Government officials, but when the living conditions of citizens and communities are better than they were previously. That is why you hear all these comments coming from all quarters. This ministry is very critical to national economic development. Today, the whole world is moving away from the emphasis on economic growth to what the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) believes in, the human development index, because it is more comprehensive. It goes beyond the economic growth that we normally talk about.

Mr Chairperson, agriculture is a major contributor to the process of economic development, as most of my colleagues have said. First of all, there is the product contribution, then there is the factor contribution, and the market and foreign exchange contribution. So, if properly harnessed, this ministry can make Zambia a prosperous nation.

Sir, with regard to economic growth, the take off stage of development must be preceded by an agricultural revolution. It is this revolution that took place in Britain, for example, where it culminated in industrialisation. In most countries that have recorded growth, the catalyst has been agriculture. There must be a revolution in this field, but what do we see, today, in our situation? Nothing. Once agriculture emerges from its stagnant subsistence stage and starts to specialise and produce goods for export, and industry develops under the impact of growth in the agricultural sector, the two sectors of agriculture and industry will become very inter-dependent. Where there is agriculture, there will also be satellite industries and mining. That is not the situation in our case.

Mr Chairperson, I think that you will agree that the State has about four functions, namely:

(a)    to provide for its people;

(b)    to correct market imperfections;

(c)    to protect the vulnerable and ensure an equitable distribution of income; and

(d)    to provide an industrial environment in which markets can flourish, including the maintenance of macro-economic stability.

Let me talk about the third function, that of protecting the vulnerable and ensuring an equitable distribution of income. Where are we today, as a country? Mr Chairperson, I think that it is a known fact that 70 per cent of the populations in developing nations are rural-based and the source of income for this 70 per cent is farming. So, it is the responsibility of every government all over the world to look at the bigger picture. In the case of developing nations, we look at the 70 per cent of the population. That is why I find it strange that we can discontinue the fuel subsidy and make our people vulnerable. We expected the Government, after the removal of the subsidy on food production and fuel, to come up with some economic intervention. I am still waiting for the Government to tell us what the positive economic interventions that it has put in place after the removal of subsidies are for the 70 per cent of our people who depend on farming.

Sir, our poor agricultural policy is not helpful to the country. Obviously, this Government will not agree that the agricultural policy is poor, but the removal of subsidies without any positive economic intervention or replacement is surely a bad policy. We have seen the poor distribution of fertiliser and other inputs the result of which is that the people in the rural areas are now suffering. Last year, when there was another poor distribution of inputs, we thought that lessons had been learnt and that there would be an improvement this year. Unfortunately, even if we have been told that things are alright, it will soon be December, but the trucks carrying farming inputs are still on their way into the country. As my colleagues have already stated, beyond the destination points, we will have to distribute the fertiliser to various places. When will we reach the remote places, considering that we are in the rainy season and most of our roads in our country are poor? Surely, can you say that this is a good agricultural policy?

Sir, the reduction in the production of maize, which is our mainstay in the country, is clear. In two consecutive years, there has been a huge reduction. So, you link what is happening in our country today in our economic mainstay and ask yourself what is happening to the economy, as a whole. Dear colleagues, do you see an agricultural revolution today? The answer is no. What we see is a chaotic situation.

Further, Mr Chairperson, the MMD’s policy on agriculture was to make communication easier for the farmers. However, this Government’s tax on airtime, coupled with the removal of subsidies on fuel and food, definitely compounds the problem in the country. Our idea was that, in areas like Milenge, people should not be required to travel 250km to the provincial centre to get information on agriculture and other matters, but to simply get the information on the mobile telephone. With the increased tax on airtime, this Government, will compound the problems in agriculture. So, agriculture will collapse unless the hon. Minister does something.

The Government has actually made the people in the rural areas more vulnerable. Their economic mainstay and only survival mechanism is on the decline today. So, we have to separate the hon. Minister, as an individual, from the critical function of his office. We have to revolutionise agriculture. For example, we must build and repair dams, as my colleague stated, and work on the transportation and communications infrastructure.

Mr Chairperson, I have debated before that there are some provinces that need deliberate and positive interventions, and named the Western, North-Western and Luapula provinces. The people of these areas have taken agriculture very seriously. However, what we see, year in and year out, is that they are allocated the least amount of fertiliser. If you check the records, you will see that the Western and Luapula provinces are at the bottom, and the reason is not that the people of these areas are not interested in farming. The numbers of those who are active in agriculture are quite high, but their allocations of agricultural inputs are very minimal. As a result, poverty levels will continue to rise in these areas. The people of Luapula are crying for fertiliser. I have traversed the province and I have found out that nearly all the districts are not adequately supplied with fertiliser.

Sir, it is my sincere hope that the hon. Minister will critically take stock of what is happening in his ministry with a view to correcting the situation so that the ministry can positively contribute to the country’s development. Agriculture is the mainstay of our country but, unless we effect positive interventions, as the hon. Member for Lukulu Central always says, this country is doomed.

Sir, with these remarks, I thank you.

Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Chairperson, thank you for this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock Vote, which I support wholeheartedly.

Sir, I want to restrict my debate to FISP and the co-operatives, but will start by appreciating the hon. Minister’s focus on co-operatives and the support that he has been rendering them of late. However, I seem to have a problem with FISP. 

Sir, like I have always indicated on the Floor of this House, this programme, FISP, will not deliver the development that we desire in the agricultural sector. The programme, as we all know, was founded on the back of the collapse of an initially very vibrant co-operative movement in this country. As a suggestion, why can we not convert FISP into financial services and hand it over to the co-operative movement? If it can, allow the ZCF to be run with the ball, which is likely to facilitate the realisation of the crop diversification strategy. Rural industrialisation will definitely follow and lead to the emergence of a very strong and vibrant small and medium enterprise (SME) sector anchored on agro processing. There is also the possibility that subsidies could disappear and be replaced with stimulus. We all know that stimulus is intermittent. If you have very strong financial services in the agricultural sector, subsidies disappear. A case in point is Rwanda, which does not have subsidies like us, yet it has a very successful agricultural sector. The conversion would also help in expanding the trading sector. There is also the likelihood that the street vending that we see could disappear, to some extent.

Sir, the ZCF, which is the mother body for all co-operative societies, has a strategic plan that could be used for developing the sector. The relevant modifications could be made to the plan. 

Sir, we all know that, when the co-operative movement was still very vibrant, it was the third largest employer in this country after the Government and the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM). However, with its collapse, we saw the dwindling of formal jobs in this country. So, what is it that we need to do to bring back a vibrant co-operative movement in this country? One of the requirements is a Presidential pronouncement that co-operatives be formed. I will explain that. When I superintended over the ZCF, the co-operative movement had collapsed and was completely flat on its belly. We had a confidence problem. Our members would not believe us whenever we advised them of the need to re-position the movement because they knew that the Government was not on our side. To buttress this point, let me give a historical perspective. 

Sir, co-operative societies were started in this country in 1914, and started as private enterprises. In 1965, there was the Chifubu Declaration, in which the then President stated that co-operatives would be a mass empowerment organisation and urged the people to form co-operatives. What followed was support from the Government and donors while members put in money through shares. However, in 1992, there were drastic policy changes against the co-operative movement and the movement disappeared overnight. So, you can see the importance of a new Presidential pronouncement. That is what will instil confidence in our people and, if that is done, we shall, once again, have a vibrant co-operative movement.

Mr Chairperson, I want to get a little into the international arena so that we can understand how important co-operatives can be, in terms of employment creation and developing the country. According to the International Co-operative Alliance (ICA), co-operatives are responsible for more than 100 million jobs across the country and provide 20 per cent more jobs than the multi-national companies. If we look at Germany and the United States of America (USA), one in four people are co-operators. In Canada, it is four in ten people. If my memory serves me right, in Sweden, …

Prof. Luo crossed the Floor.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Minister, please, get used to not standing between the person debating and the Chairperson. You can sit at the back temporarily and come back to your seat later.

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Mpundu: … it is eight in ten. In Japan, one out of three families is a member of the co-operative movement while in Kenya, a country that is very close to us, co-operatives provide jobs to more than 250,000 people, and is responsible for 45 per cent of the GDP. Further, 31 per cent of the national savings and deposits are generated by the co-operative movement. The Kenya Co-operative Bank is the largest in Kenya, and has more assets than the total of all the assets of all Zambian banks. So, you can see how big the bank is. 

Sir, the co-operatives in Kenya are responsible for 70 per cent of the Coffee industry, 76 per cent of the dairy industry, 90 per cent of the pyrethrum and 95 per cent of the cotton industry. In Poland, the co-operatives are responsible for 75 per cent of dairy production while, in the United Kingdom (UK), the largest travel agency is a co-operative. An interesting example from Indonesia is that the Government realised that it was important for it to support co-operatives because it thought that they would redeem that country by eradicating poverty and reducing unemployment. It would also lead to the emergence of a very strong SME sector, and that happened. In that country, there are more than 192,000 co-operatives, of which 7,831 are Savings and Credit Co-operative Organisations (SACCOs). That is why I insist that we transform FISP into a financial services package. If we do that, we will end up having a very strong financial services sector servicing the agricultural sector and subsidies will disappear. In Rwanda, there are no subsidies because there are SACCOs everywhere. People just walk in and out of these organisations anywhere to access financial services.

Sir, let me get back to Indonesia. What has happened in that country is that unemployment now stands at 6.1 per cent while poverty has reduced drastically to 11 per cent.

Mrs Kabanshi entered the Chamber and sat at the Back Bench.

Hon. Opposition Members: Another one wants to cross the Floor.

The Chairperson: Order!

She has done the right thing.

Laughter

Mr Mpundu: Mr Chairperson, if this development could take place here, particularly during the term of this Parliament, I would be the happiest person. I hope everybody else would be happy, too, because we would be witnesses to the emergence of a new generation of children born into high privilege.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the policy statement made by the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock on the budget of his ministry. 

Sir, I want to sincerely appreciate all the positive intentions that the ministry has, especially the one of increasing the agricultural sector’s contribution to our GDP from 19 per cent to over 50 per cent. That is a very good intention, and I support it. However, as the hon. Minister strives to do that, he needs to know that he really needs help from others. In helping him, we will have to bring out issues that we think can add value to his ministry. He can, then, look at some of the positive suggestions that we make. As he made the policy statement, I was taken aback a little because he did not acknowledge that fact. That is the problem we have in this country. We have always said that the Government’s agricultural policy cannot stand in isolation. It has to be supported by other equally important intentions of the country. 

Sir, although this might sound repetitive, I am aware that Zambia is a signatory to the 2003 Maputo Declaration in which it committed itself to allocating, at least, 10 per cent of the National Budget to the agricultural sector. That has not happened under the PF, and it did not happen under the MMD, yet there has been much rhetoric about developing the agricultural sector over the years that have passed. There have been very good pronouncements, but very little action. I do not know if the hon. Minister is even aware that the African Union (AU) has declared 2014 the year of agriculture what the implications of that for us and for the hon. Minister are. As he made his statement, I would have liked him to probably link his statement to the Comprehensive Africa Agriculture Development Programme (CAADP) Framework signed in February, 2011, by the MMD Government. These policy documents are on a shelf somewhere gathering dust. Why not look at their contents? The CAADP Framework under the New Partnership for Africa’s Development (NEPAD) has four pillars. As the hon. Minister comes to wind up debate on this Vote, I would like him to link his statement to the CAADP Framework. 

Sir, just the other day, we were talking about AU protocols. The 2003 Maputo Declaration is one of them, but we have never been anywhere near to achieving its goals. In the last few years, the country has recorded an average of 6 per cent annual GDP growth. However, because of our negligence of the agricultural sector, the growth has not been inclusive. We have been calling for inclusive economic growth, meaning that, as we register GDP growth, we must take along the majority of our people, who continue to wallow in abject poverty, including the small-holder farmers in rural areas. 

Mr Chairperson, the CAADP Framework is also linked to millennium development goal (MDG) Number One, to which we are also a signatory, which aims at reducing absolute poverty and hunger by 50 per cent by 2015. We are not anywhere near to achieving that goal because we have not walked our talk. That why, in 2011, the Zambian people felt that the MMD was paying lip service or being rhetorical about poverty reduction and rural development and hence voted it out of power. However, what has changed? Are we not still in the same situation? If anything, we are even regressing. If the PF Government is truly pro-poor, why is it that, in November, most of our rural farmers have not yet been paid for supplying food crops to the FRA? How will you take them out of poverty like that? How will we ensure that they are part of the inclusive economic growth? How will we ensure that they have opportunities to use the agricultural sector as a launch pad into other business activities? 

Mr Chairperson, I come from the third ecological zone that the hon. Minister referred to, the Northern Province, which has high rainfall. Most of the farmers in Lubansenshi, Luwingu District, have not been paid and, in the next two weeks or so, the roads will become impassable. How will fertiliser distributed there? How will we take the farmers out of poverty if we continue to provide them with seed late? 

Sir, Lubansenshi Constituency has an FTC whose construction has stalled since the MMD left power. I do not know how many times I have been to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to push for the completion of that project, but nothing has been done. How will we take the people of Lubansenshi out of poverty this way?

Mr Chairperson, under CAADP, we wanted to use the agricultural sector to enhance economic growth, combat poverty and reduce inequality and food insecurity. That has not happened. The anticipation was that the agricultural sector would grow by, at least, 6 per cent annually. That, too, has not happened because we have not allocated sufficient resources to the sector. 

Sir, somebody said that, even if we have not domesticated all the regional protocols, we are still making progress. That is appreciated. However, if we do not do that, how will we even compare ourselves with other countries? Look at the progress that has been made by other countries in Sub-Saharan Africa that have allocated a minimum of 10 per cent of their national budgets to the agricultural sector. See far they have gone in taking their people out of poverty. What are we doing here? We are full of empty political rhetoric. 

Mr Chairperson, we will not get people out of poverty if our actions do not demonstrate our good intentions. Our intentions can only be good if we really demonstrate that we can allocate sufficient resources towards agriculture. The hon. Minister can have very good intentions, but he has no money. It is true that Zambia has some of the most qualified human resource in the agricultural sector, which can perform anywhere. However, they have not been given sufficient tools to do their work with. Further, it was in this House that we were told that there would be no employment even of agricultural extension officers in the next two to three years. How will you transfer the terms of trade to the rural sector and reduce poverty?  

Sir, look at the current structural and institutional rigidities in of the agricultural sector. How are they being addressed?  My colleagues talked about livestock development, and I am aware that there are international protocols even in that sector. I am particularly aware of organisations like the African Union Inter-African Bureau on Animal Resources (AU-IBAR), whose protocols we have signed. There is so much potential that needs to be harnessed in the livestock sector, but we are not doing enough. I do not mean to put Mr Kazabu on the spot, but I know that he is a very hard working hon. Deputy Minister.

Mr Livune: What about the hon. Minister?

Mr D. Mwila: What about Hon. Mwewa?

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, I am talking about Hon. Kazabu, who is in charge of —

Laughter

The Chairperson: Ignore them and just continue talking.

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, in this region, we must be talking about intra-Africa trade and about making regional linkages. We have regional economic institutions (REIs). If you go to the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA), you will find a fully-fledged department on agricultural development. If we are to talk about CAADP, what linkages do we have between our ministry and COMESA? There is so much unmet demand for livestock products. There is so much potential, but we are not taking advantage of it because we have not sufficiently funded the agricultural sector.

Mr Chairperson, how will you bring 17,000ha of land under irrigation when there is no money? Is it not possible for you to learn something from the old man, Mr Kenneth Kaunda, who is fondly called KK? I remember, when I was a young man, President Kaunda would declare a given year the year for Agriculture and demonstrate political will by, for once, allocating sufficient resources to the sector to demonstrate that it could be done. Why are we failing to do that? Why can we not declare 2014 the year for agriculture and agree to give Hon. Sichinga, at least, 10 per cent of the National Budget? If we did that, the impact of economic growth would be felt by every Zambian. 

Mr Chairperson, how will we diversity the economy when there is no money? We have also talked about reforming FISP and, indeed, it needs to be reformed. How can we develop agro-value chains? In Mongu, we have livestock and rice; in Mwinilunga, they have pineapples; and, in the Southern Province, they have livestock. Why are we forcing everyone to grow maize? In Luapula, there is cassava —

Ms Kalima: Fish

Mr Mucheleka: There is fish, and fish development is what we should be talking about.

 Mr Chairperson, I want to adopt Hon. Mpundu’s debate on the co-operative movement. What people may not even know is that Rabo Bank, which bought the Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) is a co-operative in the Netherlands. So, we need to support our co-operatives and use them as a means of bringing agricultural and rural development.  

Mr Chairperson, the challenges in the agricultural sector are enormous, and I believe that, if we demonstrate political will, we can promote the agricultural sector as a means of bringing about inclusive growth and poverty reduction in the rural areas because most of our rural farmers depend on agriculture and we need to support them. 

Mr Chairperson, I agree with the idea of constructing a silo in Muchinga, but who said that we do not need a silo in Kasama? We are talking about universities and a silo in Muchinga, but the Northern Province needs that, too. We also need to be supported because there are farmers there, too.

Mr Mbewe: Beat him up!

Mr Mucheleka: We, the people of the Northern Province, are watching and we see all these things. Who tells you that Muchinga is the only province, and that the Southern Province does not need development? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: The people of Kasama in the Northern Province also want access to these development projects. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: In conclusion, as I support this Budget, I want to say that we should use the agricultural sector as a means of bringing about rural development through agriculture. Let us allocate not less than 10 per cent of the next National Budget to the agricultural sector.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: Before Hon. Muntanga takes the Floor, let me inform the House that we have been told that Parliament Radio is off-air here, in Lusaka, because of a power outage. The other parts of the country are not affected.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to debate this Vote. I also welcome Hon. Dr Chilufya to the House. He knows that he is our brother-in-law.  

Sir, I want to state from the outset of my debate that I expected the allocation to the Ministry of Agriculture to meet the 10 per cent threshold of the Maputo Declaration. It has somewhat increased, for various  reasons, and I am happy …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Chairperson, I apologise to the hon. Member who has just started debating for interrupting his debate. However, is he in order to congratulate Dr Chilufya on having won the Mansa By-election when he has come at the wrong time when the boat is sinking and that Government is going out?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chairperson: Yes, he is in order.

Hon. Muntanga, continue.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I will still congratulate him because I understand that he has been appointed hon. Deputy Minister of Health. He is also a doctor. However, maybe, he wants to be congratulated because he got 10,000 votes under the MMD, but only got 9,000 this time, meaning that he had more votes under the MMD. On the other hand, the PF candidate had 15,000 votes in the 2011 Election, which means that no PF Members voted for him then. So, his popularity has improved. 

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I want to state that we are not satisfied with the Budget. The point I want to drive …

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central in order to go about praising everybody else without mentioning that his party, the United Party for National Development (UPND) got a paltry 388 votes and came a distant fourth in the Mansa Central By-election?

The Chairperson: It is his prerogative to choose what to talk about. So, we will not quarrel with him. Further, I wish to state that this —

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

That was the last point of order I will allow. 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I am grateful that the hon. Deputy Minister acknowledges that we have improved from zero to 300.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga:  Ours is a coming party.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I remember the words of the late Dr Mwanawasa, SC., that there were people who wanted to confuse and bring chaos in the agricultural sector. This is one ministry that has very educated people, doctors, professors, you name them. So, any new hon. Minister who heads it should know that he cannot re-invent the wheel. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, if the hon. Minister had listened to the technocrats, he would have avoided the problems he is now facing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I have no personal grudge against Hon. Sichinga. He was my Vice-President in the UPND. However, I want to tell him that, if he differs with me on agriculture, then we will differ at the personal level, too, because agriculture is my way of life. Anyone who has dealt with me on agriculture knows what kind of passion I have for it.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I agree with Chairman Ng’onga’s sentiment that agriculture is a time-sensitive industry. Yesterday, it was stated that the Government was distributing fertiliser. That was a lie.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah, is it a lie?

The Chairperson: Please, use appropriate language.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, it was not true. Someone was being economical with the truth because I have a message from Kalomo that says that there is no seed there.

Mr Livune: And Kazungula, ta. There is nothing.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, some hon. Members of Parliament on the other side should be honest. The trouble we have is that we do not tell people the truth. In agriculture, you do not use flowery language to please people. This is an industry in which you must use a hands-on approach. Do not deceive people. There is no seed being distributed, and today is 28th November, 2014.

Mr Chairperson, I moved a Motion to encourage the Government to hasten the distribution of fertiliser and stated that the three ecological zones in the country should be handled in accordance with their specific requirements. There is nothing new to talk about on the Inter-Tropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ). Anyone in the agricultural sector knows about it. Therefore, it is child’s play to talk about it. When you have to supply inputs to Zone Two, which is the most productive in terms of crops, you need to deliver them on time. Unfortunately, this is the zone that you are playing around with. 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about the E-Voucher System. Two years ago, we undertook a study with a Parliamentary Committee, and we told its members that the environment did not support the introduction of the E-Voucher System because there were not enough people to support it. However, the new Government clutched onto the idea and made it sound as though it would work. It promised everybody that it would introduce the new system in July, 2013, but failed to do so. Who is it blaming now? We are now being told that there was no money to implement the system, yet it was known, even before you came into power, that the idea was untenable.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I believe that the Government did this deliberately because I remember His Honour the Vice-President saying here that the Government wanted to stop supporting the growing of maize. I would not be surprised if it still wants to do that because it has not paid the farmers for the maize they supplied last year. It has also taken every step to frustrate maize growing in the most productive areas so that it would not have to worry about buying the maize. That is my assessment of the situation. I told the hon. Minister in this House that, when you plant early in Kalomo, by October or early November, the maize will have germinated. The hon. Minister knows my farm but, instead of stopping over to ask me to show him where the geminated maize was, he went to photograph a shed belonging to Mr Ronald Magel and asked where the maize was because he could not see any there. He also stopped over at Mr Sievil’s farm, which is 100m from my farm, and photographed it, too. Even the people from the National Agriculture Information Services (NAIS), who are experts on agriculture, were photographing grass and the hon. Minister asked them to show him where the maize was. Come on, man. Why do you want to do things like that? Whom do you want to compete with? 

Mr Nkombo: Come on, man.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, if he wants to compete with me over agriculture, it will be a non-contest because there is maize at my farm. I challenge him to go with the same NAIS crew to the villages —

Mr Nkombo: They are not nice.

Mr Muntanga: We can go to Bulya Mbeba, where the maize is knee-high and farmers have applied top-dressing fertiliser because they sourced their own.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, they planted immediately the rainy season started. I am telling the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock that, if he wanted to be successful, he should have given inputs to all the farmers in that area for them to plant. However, all we have been getting from him are meaningless statements.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, why does he want to argue that there is no maize that has germinated? Let us go to that place together. I want those officers from NAIS to come along. How can you photograph the road side and expect to see maize there? You did not even bother to go to the farmer to ask him which fields he had planted so that you could see whether there was maize. There is no contest between us, hon. Minister.

Mr Chairperson, we were told that the farmers who supplied the FRA would be paid within fourteen days, but they have not been paid many months later, and we are all dancing around and saying that the PF is doing very well. 

Sir, yesterday, we were told that the Government was doing very well, and that it was 100 per cent in control of the situation. What 100 per cent? It is 28th November, and there is no seed that has been distributed, yet you say that you are 100 per cent in control. You have gone to the Zone Three, the high-rainfall area, where there is a longer planting time, and that is where you are sending trucks carrying inputs. 

Mr Sing’ombe rose.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, trucks are delivering seed to Nakonde, and I can even tell you their registration numbers.

The Chairperson: Order!

I guided the House that I would not allow any more points of order today. I cannot undo my decision.

Hon. Muntanga, you may continue.

Mr Muntanga: However, the Government is not delivering the seed to an area that needs it, where people need to plant now. It moved a whole train-load from Tanzania and offloaded it in Serenje for it to be taken to the high-rainfall area, and avoided taking the fertiliser to the most difficult-to-reach areas. After that, it was said that the idea was to enable the train to return quickly. In my judgment, you should have made that train go to the farthest point in the Southern Province so that, when it came on the next trip, it will deliver to the other places. There is a risk in taking such decisions. My assessment is that you deliberately did this to impoverish the people in Region Two. If not, you should find out why such decisions were made. 

Mr Chairperson, we have been talking about saving money as the reason for not wanting to deal with Omnia Fertiliser Zambia Limited and Nyiombo Investments Limited.  Meanwhile, these companies are taking fertiliser to the areas that the Government has not yet reached. The same fertiliser that the Government said would be too expensive is the one the farmers are buying and using to grow maize. They are not waiting for the hon. Minister to deliver the fertiliser under a programme that is beset with problems. 

Mr Chairperson, there is currently no agricultural officer who can stand and be proud of what is happening. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Oh, no.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I have talked to agricultural officers and they feel embarrassed. They are not proud to be delivering inputs in November. 

Sir, the other issue that you may not know is that the farmers are not even banking their money anymore, and the reason is that the deposit slips that were developed by the ministry have ran out. So, they cannot take their money to the bank. They are crowding Kalomo Town. They were told that they may be able to deposit starting Monday, next week. That means that the farmers will have to make the deposits in December. Your programme is beset with problems, and you must admit that, hon. Minister.

Mr Chairperson, please, the PF should not use the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock as a trial ground for any hon. Minister. In fact, I think that this ministry was better off with Hon. Chenda. I want to tell you that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I am telling the hon. Minister that this ministry is very difficult to run.  You do not want to face those facts, but we cannot help telling you about them. You do not have to stand here every time to challenge me over the maize that has germinated while ignoring your duty to deliver inputs to farmers in time.

Mr Chairperson, the transporters have now just agreed to transport the seed without signing contracts. I was in Kalomo to persuade them to move the seed. What are you doing? There are 900,000 farmers you are trying to support, but you have not supported them. The 600,000 farmers who are not being supported are the ones who will have better harvests. Go to Chibomboma, Siachitema, Chiundwe and even Zimba, and you will find that maize has germinated, hon. Minister. Please, do not challenge me on that. There is no contest between us. The farmers planted in the hope that fertiliser would be taken there in time. 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about irrigation. The land available for irrigation is 17,000ha, yet only 4,500ha is under irrigation, despite the many centre pivot systems dotted around the country. You say that you want to put 17,000ha under irrigation, yet you have budgeted for only K40 million in the Yellow Book. Come off it, man. Do not talk like that. 

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: This is not an issue to theorise on. When we remind you to undertake these things, we mean well, and we will not stop. Any other person can be appointed into that portfolio and, if they do not listen because of arrogance, we will never solve the problems in the sector. I have a son on my farm who is doing very well in farming, but I do not give him freedom to do wrong things. Let us listen to the technocrats in the ministry. If I look over your head, I can see those technocrats and I personally know a number of them. Those people cannot stand up and say that they are happy with what is going on because they are shy, except for the hon. Minister, who is able to say, “We are at 100 per cent performance” even when things are not going well in the ministry. He is in the wrong ministry.

Laughter

Mr Lufuma: Put Hon. Prof. Nkandu Luo there.

Mr Muntanga: I would like to appeal to President Sata, if he is listening, to avoid considering the relationships he has with some people. Rather, he should pay attention to this ministry, which concerns us all.

The Chairperson: Order!

Sometimes, we keep quiet in the hope that you will quickly go to another issue. You know that we are not supposed to debate ourselves in this House, especially if it is in a negative tone. You know what that means. I think that you should, please, go on to another subject.

Please, continue.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, the money that has been allocated to research is not enough. The diversification that we all talk about will not come about by mere rhetoric. We have to take a deliberate step to attract farmers to do the things that we want them to do. We have gone back to the time when we were growing cassava all over the country. Farmers grew the crop, but we did not have enough milling companies to process it. So, farmers stopped growing it. In Chama, people grew finger millet, but nobody was interested in buying it. 

Mr Chairperson, people need to be encouraged to grow crops like rice, but you must market the crop. The FRA is not allowed to buy rice. How can you diversify like that? You are talking about tobacco and other crops that are only supported by the private sector. The Government has nothing to do with them. I advise you to carefully review the Motion I moved on the Floor of this House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: The point I was making was that you were supposed to hasten the delivery of inputs to the farmers. The issue of the zones that you were talking about is a repetition of what I said in this House, but that is not the matter now. The matter is that farmers need to receive their inputs in time. Please, pay the farmers, too. 

Sir, the President challenged us in this House to give him a list of names of farmers who had not been paid after supplying their produce to the FRA so that they could be paid within a day. We submitted the lists, but nothing happened. On that score, perhaps, the hon. Minister of Finance should get some money and pay the farmers. They get their income only once in a year. So, do not delay them any further.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, I thank all the eight hon. Members who have debated the various matters in this ministry. Hon. Imenda, Hon. Kalima, Hon. Ng’onga, Hon. Nkombo, Hon. Mbulakulima, Hon. Mpundu, Hon. Mucheleka and Hon. Muntanga, I would like to appreciate all your contributions.

Sir, it is very clear that, while we have made many statements in this House to explain exactly how we intended to proceed in the sector, many issues have been taken out of context. However, it is not my wish, at this point in time, to delve into that. Suffice it to say, as I indicated at the beginning, that we may not get everything that we require. We have to cut our suit according to the cloth that we have. It is quite clear to me that we can only utilise the resource that will be made available to us. 

Mr Chairperson, yes, the timely implementation of projects is very important, and I could not agree more with that position.

Mr Chairperson, as to whether I am suitable to be hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock or not, I think, I will leave that to those who would like to have opinions on it, just like I have an opinion about the suitability of others, whatever their professions may be.

Laughter{mospagebreak}

Mr Sichinga: Sir, the challenges that the ministry faces will not be resolved overnight. Many of them will require long-term solutions. What we have done is indicate what our intentions are, but our intentions are subject to many other factors beyond the control of just one ministry. I want to concur with Hon. Mucheleka that there are supposed to be linkages or connections, and that is what I have tried to reflect in my policy debate, including on the issue of CAADP.

Mr Chairperson, I already indicated to this House what our National Agriculture Investment Plan is linked to and based on, which is CAADP. I tried to clarify, throughout my debate, the issues concerning the distribution of inputs. Obviously, there will be impediments along the way. Suffice it to say that it is my sincere hope that the House will support this Vote and make a contribution according to the resources that will be made available to us.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: I think that I should commend you for summarising your policy statement. You are the first among the few.

Interruptions

Vote 89/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/02 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Human Resource and Administration – K17,876,447).

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Unit 5, Programme 1001, Activity 072 – Office Entertainment – K2,000. I am seeing this activity for the first time and money has been allocated to it. Can the hon. Minister explain it.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Chairperson, the objective of Unit 5, Programme 1001 – General Administration – K12,000 is to cater for the effective management of the operations of the ministry by providing financial, administrative and logistical support services. The provision of K12,000 is for the purchase of fuel and lubricants.

Thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

The question is on the K2,000.

Mr Kazabu: The provision of K2,000 is for the purchase of fuel …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Mwewa: Let me help you.

Thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: Order!

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Mwewa): Mr Chairperson, the provision of K2,000 is simply for office refreshments.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I am disappointed that we have no seed, but we have money for entertainment. 

That said, I seek clarification on Unit 5, Programme 1002, Activity 049 – Graduation Ceremonies – K2,000 and Programme 1003, Activity 019 – Graduation Ceremonies – K40,600. Why has the money for graduation ceremonies under Programme 1002 been reduced from K25,000 to K2,000 while the allocation for the same activity under Programme 1003 has been increased from K21,000 to K40,600? Why is there this diamaca kind of setup? 

The Chairperson: I understand. Programme 1002 is Events while Programme 1003 is Capacity Building. Hon. Minister, what is the answer to that?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, on Unit 5, Programme 1002, Activity 049 – Graduation Ceremonies – K2,000, the reduction is because the activity has been moved to Programme 1003, as you can see just below. The allocation to Programme 1003, Activity 019 – Graduation Ceremonies – K40,600, has been increased, as I said, because of the other activity which has been moved there from Programme 1003.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: Hon. Deputy Minister, the question is: Why is there K2,000 under Unit 5, Programme 1002, Activity 049 if the activity has been re-aligned?

Mr Kazabu and Mr Mwewa rose.

Mr Mwewa resumed his seat.

Laughter 

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, the provision of K2,000 under Unit 5, Programme 1002, Activity 049 – Graduation Ceremonies – K2,000, is for the purchase of fuel and lubricants, stationery and the refreshments that have already been referred to.

The Chairperson: On graduation ceremonies?

Mr Kazabu: Graduation ceremonies?

The Chairperson: Yes, Unit 5, Programme 1002 – Events, Activity 049 – Graduation Ceremonies – K2,000.

Mr Kazabu: Yes, that is the one. The objective of this programme is to effectively manage, and provide financial, administrative and logistical support services in order to ensure the smooth operation of the ministry.

Interruptions

Mr Kazabu: The provision of K2,000 is for the purchase of fuel …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kazabu: … and lubricants, stationary and refreshments. The decrease is because this programme has been budgeted for under Unit 5, Programme 1003 – Capacity Building, Activity 019 – Graduation Ceremonies – K40,600.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: For refreshments?

Mr Kazabu: Yes.

Mr Mutelo rose.

Mr Chairperson: No, we have to move. I think that, sometimes, hon. Minister, we can be assisted because the K2,000 is K2 million in the old currency. We have to be clear about those activities you are mentioning. Hon. Minister, do you have anything to say?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, there are events that take place and some of them were classified under Unit 5, Programme 1002, Activity 049 – Graduation Ceremonies – K2,000. During those events, the ministry can provide vehicles and administrative services while fuel is provided by the organisers. That is why that K2,000 has been left there. However, the bulk of the actual graduation ceremonies activities, including buying or hiring of gowns, has been budgeted for under Programme 1003, Activity 019 – Graduation Ceremonies – K40,600.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 89/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

VOTE 89/03 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Policy and Planning Department – K441,816,926).

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1003, Activity 034 – Short-Term Training – K105,000. This allocation was K30,000 this year. Why has it been increased to K105,000 for next year? 

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, the increase in the allocation was due to an increase in the number of officers who will participate and in short-term and long-term training, supported by Activities 22, 34 and 35, as per training plan.

I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Kalima: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1182, Activity 001 – Maintenance of Departmental Fleet of Vehicles – K436,000. This year’s allocation was K20,000, but next year’s is K436,000. Is there any particular reason for the increase?

The Hon. Minister of Agriculture and Hon. Deputy Ministers did not respond.

The Chairperson: It seems that you have to repeat your question, Hon. Kalima.

Ms Kalima repeated her question.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, the increase in the allocation is due to the planned purchase of one vehicle in 2014. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Unit 01, Programme 1005, Activities 009 – Cotton Development Trust – K1,500,000; 011 – GART – K500,000; 041 – Tobacco Board of Zambia – K50194; 073 – Veterinary Council K387,456; 074 – Dairy Development Board – K100,000; 111 – Agriculture Consultative Forum – K10,000 and 721 – Food Reserve Agency – K80,000,000. Why have we started funding these trusts? I can see a number of new activities.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Chairperson, Unit 01, Programme 1005, Activity – 111 – Agriculture Consultative Forum – K10,000 has been introduced into the programme; Activities 020 – Livestock Development – K2,806,758, 073 – Veterinary Council K387,456 and 074 – Dairy Development Board – K1000,000 have been moved from Unit 11, Programme 1005 on page 1038, Activities 009 – Cotton Development Trust – K1,500,000 and 011 – GART – K500,000 have been moved from Department 05 – ZARI on page 1044 and 721 – Food Reserve Agency – K80,000,000 has been moved from Department 9, Agriculture and Marketing, Programme 1063 – Food Security on page 1068. 

The allocation of K80,000,000 to Activity 721 will support the operations of the FRA.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1018, Activity 048 – Small-Scale Productivity Promotion Programme (S3P) (25) – K6,125,000. This is a very good programme as it entails that small-scale farmers will be supported. Could the hon. Minister kindly explain why the allocation to the activity has been reduced from K15,177,600 to K6,125,000.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, the reduction is because a lot of equipment has already been purchased. The project started in 2013. So, we do not need to buy more equipment in 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 1034, Programme 1006, Activity 030 – International Atomic Energy Agency (Livestock Research Project) – K119,284. This is a Japanese project. So, why are we funding an international project?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, this allocation is not a contribution to a co-operating partner, but to an international organisation. We always contribute to various organisations for us to maintain our membership with them. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programmes 1005 – Management and Co-ordination – Nil, 1006 – Contributions and Subscriptions – Nil and 1018 – Agriculture Development Programmes – Nil. Why are they not catered for next year? 

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, Unit 11, Programmes 1005 – Management and Co-ordination – Nil, 1006 – Contributions and Subscriptions – Nil and 1018 – Agriculture Development Programmes have been budgeted for under Programme 1006 on page 1034.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 89/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/05 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Zambia Agricultural Research Institute – K20,439,280).

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1006, Activities 037 – ITPGR – K20,000, 049 – SADC Genebank – K30,000 and 078 – CCARDESA – K500,000. The allocations to Activities 037 and 049 have increased from K3,000 each to K20,000 and K30,000, respectively, while the one for Activity 078 has been increased from K50,000 to K500,000. I do not know what this increase would be in percentages terms. 

The Chairperson: We get your question. Please, allow the hon. Minister to respond.

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, the increases in Programme 1006, Activities 037 – ITPGR – K20,000, 049 – SADC Genebank – K30,000 and 078 – CCARDESA – K500,000 is because of an increase in the mentioned organisations’ subscription fees for 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 89/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/06 - (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Veterinary Services Department – K46,118,454).

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1120, Activity 023 – Monitoring and Evaluating Livestock Disease Control and Pro K53,000. In 2013, there was K114,000. For 2014, we have reduced it to K53,000. Why have we done that?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, the reduction is due to a re-allocation of some activities to Programme 1139, Activities 040 and 044.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1012, Activity 034 – Construction and Rehabilitation of Dip Tanks. In 2013, there was K1,329,052, but nothing has been allocated to the activity in 2014. Where has the money gone?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, there is no allocation for this programme as funds for dip tank construction and rehabilitation are now under provinces and districts as opposed to the centralised system for disbursement of these funds used in 2013.

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 89/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/11 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Seed Control and Certification Institute – K16,509,990).

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1156, Activity 001 – Co-ordination of Rural Seed System and Programmes – K125,000. Why has this allocation been raised from K42,909 to K125,000 when there is no seed, whatsoever?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, the increase in this activity is due to the increase in the number of farmers and associations involved in rural seed programmes and activities that require co-ordination.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1093, Activity 007 – Illegal Seed Campaigns – K200,000 and on Programme 1156, Activity 001 – Co-ordination of Rural Seed System and Programmes – K125,000. There seems to be a duplication of activities.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1093, Activity 007 – Illegal Seed Campaigns – K200,000 has been re-introduced after being omitted in 2013. The reason is that there has been an increase in cases of people selling fake seed or selling genuine seed illegally.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 89/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/12 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – National Agriculture Information Services – K8,494,384).

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1092, Activity 007 – Collection, Exchange and Dissemination of Information Using – K325,024. The allocation for this year was K60,000, but it has shot to K325,024 for 2014. Why is there this increase? 

Sir, I also seek clarification on Programme 1092, Activities 034 – Press Release and Video Production – K78,800`and 036 – Procurement and Installation of Equipment for Dissemination – K216,700. These are new activities. Why are there all these amounts?

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 1092, Activities 007 – Collection, Exchange and Dissemination of Information Using – K325,024, 034 – Press Release and Video Production – K78,800`and 036 – Procurement and Installation of Equipment for Dissemination – K216,700, the hon. Member seems to have gone very far ahead of the House. However, I will still answer him. The increase in the allocations to these activities is due to the increased number of on-farm demonstrations, diagnostic services or surveys, nutritional profiles and technologies for validation to be conducted.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Unit 03, Programme 1017, Activity 001 – News and Feature Article Production and Publishing – K262,025. On the same page, there is Unit 4, Programme 1017, Activity 001 – News and Feature Article Production and Publishing – K220,300. Why is this activity repeated?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, Unit 03, Programme 1017, Activity 001 – News and Feature Article Production and Publishing – K262,025 has been introduced to facilitate the production and publication of news and articles for stakeholders and the general public. When you go to Activity 006 – Copperbelt Agricultural, Commercial and Mining Show …

Mr Mutelo: That is not the activity that I asked about.

Mr Mwewa: Which one did you ask?

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Are you asking about Programme 1017?

Mr Mutelo: Yes, Sir. We have two programmes labelled ‘1017’ on the same page with the same activity.

The Chairperson: I understand. 

On page 1077, there is Unit 03, Programme 1017, Activity 001 – News and Feature Article Production and Publishing – K262,025 and Unit 04, Programme 1017, Activity 001 – News and Feature Article Production and Publishing – K220,300. He is asking why there are two programmes with the same activity. Could that be a typographical error?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, I have seen that. 

Sir, Unit 03, Programme 1017, Activity 001 – News and Feature Article Production and Publishing – K262,025, as I earlier said, will facilitate the production and publication of news and articles for stakeholders and the general public. On the other hand, Unit 04, Programme 1017, Activity 001 – News and Feature Article Production and Publishing – K220,300, which is in question, is for the purchase of stationery, fuel, lubricants …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mwewa: Yes.

Hon. Opposition Members: No.

Interruptions

Mr Mwewa: So, Mr Chairperson, the difference is that the second activity is meant to help us purchase stationery, fuel and lubricants.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, there are two Programme 1017s on the same page with the same activity. Is that correct or something is amiss?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, the figures are correct. There is some kind of duplication, but the allocations are for different purposes. Programme 1017, Activity 001 – News and Feature Article Production and Publishing – K262,025 is under a unit called Publications while Activity 001 – News and Feature Article Production and Publishing – K220,300 is under Press and Public Relations, which is Unit 04.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Chairperson, …

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock and his hon. Deputy Ministers in order to sit where they are and mislead us? The hon. Deputy Minister said that the first activity was meant to cater for fuel while the hon. Minister stood up and tried to justify something else. Are they in the order to do that? 

I need your serious ruling.

The Chairperson: I suppose, the hon. Minister was correcting the hon. Deputy Minister, and he has the right to do that. So, that is okay.

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1076 …

The Chairperson: We have not got to that yet.

Mrs Mazoka: All right, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1092, Activity 054 – Radio Farm Forum – K948,500. This activity is new, yet it will gobble K948,500. What is it all about?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, the introduction of Programme 1092, Activity 036 – Procurement and Installation of Equipment for Dissemination – K216,700, Activity 054 – Radio Farm Forum – K948,500 and Activity 081 – Maintenance of Computer System – K 55,000 …

The Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Deputy Minister, the question is on Programme 1092, Activity 054 – Radio Farm Forum – K948,500.

Mr Kazabu: Sir, the introduction of Programme 1092, Activity 036 – Procurement and Installation of Equipment for Dissemination – K216,700, Activity 054 – Radio Farm Forum – K948,500 and Activity 081 – Maintenance of Computer System – K 55,000 is meant to facilitate the procurement and maintenance of information dissemination equipment, such as computers, radio sets and electronic media facilities. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 89/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 89/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

VOTE 89/14 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Fisheries Research Stations – K18,505,660).  

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme on 1076, Activity 002 – Demonstrating Technologies On-Farm. This is a very important activity because it helps the farmers to adopt the technologies. So, why has it been left out of the 2014 Budget? 

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, there is no provision for this activity because it has been catered for under Programme 1077, Activity 005 – On-Station Breeding Trials – K48,820. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 89/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/15 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Veterinary and Livestock Development Research Stations – K20,736,140).  

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1012, Activities 014 –Construction and Monitoring of Boreholes – Nil, 155 – Rehabilitation of Buildings – Nil and 156 – Rehabilitation of Buildings and Structures – K400,000. Why is there a reduction in Activity 156 and no allocations to Activities 014 and 155?

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1012, Activities 014 – Construction and Monitoring of Boreholes – Nil and 155 – Rehabilitation of Buildings – Nil have not been budgeted for because construction and rehabilitation works were completed in 2013 while the reduction in Programme 1012, Activity 156 – Rehabilitation of Buildings and Structures – K400,000 is due to the completion of the rehabilitation of paddocks and crush pens at the station. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1023, Activities 005 – Contagious Bovine Pleuro-pneumonia Diagnosis – K300,000 and 010 – East Coast Fever/Corridor Disease Control – K100,000. What is the reason for the drastic reduction?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, the reduction on Programme 1023, Activities 005 – Contagious Bovine Pleuro-pneumonia Diagnosis – K300,000 and Activity 010 – East Coast Fever/Corridor Disease Control – K100,000 is because these activities have also been provided for by the World Bank under the Livestock Development and Animal Health (LDAH) Project. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1093, Activity 041 – Dip Wash Analysis – K120, 000. In the 2013 Budget, K23,000 was allocated for this activity. In the 2014 Budget, however, the allocation is K120,000. I would like the hon. Minister to explain this increment. 

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, the increment is as a result of the increase in the number of samples to be tested and farmers to be serviced. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1012, Activity 039 – Construction of Houses – Nil. 

Sir, despite the shortfall of staff houses in the country, there is no funding in the 2014 Budget for the construction of houses. May I know the reason for this. 

Mr Mwewa: Sir, the reduction on Programme 1012, Activity 024 – Construction of Office Blocks – K100,000 is due to the fact that 40 per cent of works were done in 2013. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, my question is on Programme 1012, Activity 039 – Construction of Houses – Nil, and it is a complete non-funding, not a reduction of funding. May I know why? 

Mr Mwewa: Sir, the activity has not been budgeted for because the pig sties, goat houses and poultry pens were constructed in 2013. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1046, Activity 005 – Surveillance and Inspection of Border Entry Points – K119,000. In the 2013 Budget, the amount allocated was K428,000. In the 2014 Budget, the allocation has drastically reduced. It looks like there will not be much surveillance. 

Mr Kazabu: Sir, the reduction in the allocation is because it has been budgeted for under the LDAH Project. 

Vote 89/15 ordered to stand to stand part of the Estimates. 

The Chairperson: Maybe, the hon. Minister should consider explaining a few things to Hon. Mutelo before we come to the next Vote. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.  

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the
Chair]

Vote 89/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/17 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Copperbelt Province – District Agriculture Co-ordinating Office – K 23,980,804).

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1167, Activity 008 – Field Operations – Nil. Will we not have any extension work by camp officers next year?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, could we be told the activity again, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: They have no answer.

The Deputy Chairperson: Can you clarify the activity for the benefit of the Government.

Mr Lufuma repeated the question.

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, the activity talked about was not meant to be an annual activity. It was just a one-off activity, and it has already been done.

I thank you.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Unit 01, Programme 1012, Activity 034 – Construction and Rehabilitation of Dip Tank – K400,000.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson is Hon. Sikazwe in order to continue disturbing his colleagues who are supposed to be answering? Maybe, he has just been appointed Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock. That is why there is confusion there.

Hon. Government Ministers: He is consulting.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

If, indeed, Hon. Sikazwe is interfering, then, he is out of order. However, if he is consulting, then, he might not be out of order.

May the hon. Member on the Floor continue.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, , I was seeking clarification on Unit 01, Programme 1012, Activity 034 – Construction and Rehabilitation of Dip Tank – K400,000. How will this money be distributed? Further, on Activity 701 – Construction of Milk Centres – K 120,000, what is this amount for?

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, the objective of this programme is to promote and strengthen efficient and effective management of agriculture production and productivity in order to ensure sustainable household and national food and nutritional security.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1167, Activity 008 – Field Operations – Nil. There is no way this item can be a one-off activity as the hon. Deputy Minister has said. Why is there no provision for this continuous activity?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, the activity he is talking about has been merged with Programme 1167, Activity 06 – Farmer Facilitation – K93,600. That is why, as you can see, the allocation to this activity has been increased from K18,000 to K93,600.

I thank you.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I asked a question on Programme 1012, Activity 034 – Construction and Rehabilitation of Dip Tank – K400,000, and I am told that it is for household activities. Where will this dip tank be?

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, the provision of funds totalling K1,220,000 is for the construction of dip tanks, an artificial insemination centre, a milk collection centre and camp houses in the district.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 89/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/ 23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/24 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Western Province – Provincial Agriculture Co-ordinating Office – K29,001,014).

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1222, Activity 009 – Livestock Disease Extension – K7,000. This year the allocation was K11,800 but, in the 2014 Budget, it has been reduced to K7,000. What is the reason?

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, the reduction in this activity is due to the reduced incidence of diseases in the province.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1096, Activity 042 – Water Resources Development for Irrigation - Construction of – Nil. This activity will not be funded next year. What is the reason?

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, the objective of the programme is to promote and strengthen efficient management of agricultural production and productivity in order to ensure sustainable household and national food and nutrition security. The provision of K15,000 has been made in 2014 for the programme to enable officers to carry out monitoring and back-stopping of irrigation activities in the district.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Antonio: Mr Chairperson, I think that the question has not been answered. This programme has not been funded in the 2014 Budget. Why?

The Deputy Chairperson: Programme 1096, Activity 042 - Water Resources Development for Irrigation - Construction of – Nil. Why is there no funding in respect of that Budget line? That is the question.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, may we just seek clarification on this because it is not provided for in these activities.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Hon. Sikazwe is there to answer.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

According to the Yellow Book that I and Hon. Antonio have, on page 1310, there is no provision for Programme 1096 – Irrigation Development and Support, Activity 042 – Water Resources Development for Irrigation – Construction of next year. Why is there no provision?

Laughter

Mr Livune: Hon. Sikazwe, answer.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: If Hon. Sikazwe is an impediment, …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: … it might be advisable that he moves back to his seat.

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: Mulefulunganya abaiche!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: There are three hon. Deputy Ministers there.

You may answer, hon. Minister.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Sikazwe, move.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, the amount that was provided in 2013 was to complete the remnant of the programme to develop water resources for that period. The programme is not being carried forward to 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1012, Activity 087 – Construction/Rehabilitation of Farm Institute (FI) – K180,000. Which institute is this?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, the K180,000 is meant to cater for the rehabilitation of the FI to enhance delivery of extension services at the institute. The provision caters for building materials and supervision of the works.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Unit 1, Programme 1003, Activity 035 –Staff Development – Nil. This year this activity was allocated K70,000 but, next year, there is no funding. Why?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, the programme has not been budgeted for as it has been catered for under Programme 1001 – General Administration, Activity 095 – Capacity Building – K22,750.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, my question on Programme 1012, Activity 087 – Construction/Rehabilitation of Farm Institute (FI) – K180,000 was: Which institute is this?

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Which institute in the Western Province is this?

Laughter

Mr Sichinga: May we seek clarification on the page number, Mr Chairperson?

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I am on page 1310, Programme 1012, Activity 087 – Construction/Rehabilitation of Farm Institute (FI)?

Mr Kazabu: It is a staff training institute in the Western Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Laughter

Mr Mushanga: It is the only one in the Western Province.

Laughter

Vote 89/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/25 - (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Western Province – District Agriculture Co-ordinating Office – K25,538,148).

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1059, Activity 005 – Supervision and Back-stopping – K34,271. What is this amount meant for? I ask this because supervision and back-stopping is a day-to-day function of management activities, and those in management are paid for undertaking them. So, what is the role of this fund?

Mr Sichinga remained seated.

The Deputy Chairperson: Could you repeat the details before I call upon the hon. Minister.

Laughter

Mr Belemu repeated the question.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, this programme is aimed at strengthening the effective co-ordination and management of agricultural programmes and projects by the District Agricultural Co-ordinator’s Office (DACO). So, this money is meant for the purchase of fuel, lubricants, stationary and payment of allowances.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1002, Activities 003 – Agricultural Shows – K10,000 and 030 – Public Functions and Ceremonies – Nil. Last year, Activity 003 was allocated K29,400 while Activity 030 was allocated K10,260. Why is there a reduction in the allocation for Activity 003 and no allocation for Activity 030 in next year’s Budget? There will be the Kuomboka Ceremony next year.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, in Programme 1002, Activity 003 – Agricultural Shows – K10,000, the decrease in the allocation is due to the reduced number of participants. In Activity 030, the non-allocation of funds is because it has been budgeted for under Vote 89/01, Unit 01, Programme 1001, Activity 083 – Public Functions and Ceremonies – K47,500.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1012 – Infrastructure Development – K100,000. Having been assured that grain silos would be constructed in Kaoma, I expected to see a provision for them under this programme. I also checked for the provision under the allocation to infrastructure development under the province, but I did not see it. Where is the budget for the construction of silos in Kaoma?

Mr Sichinga remained seated.

The Deputy Chairperson: Could you repeat the question in case the Government is not clear.

Laughter

Mr Antonio repeated the question.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, the silos are under the FRA. So, they are not included in the allocation for the provinces.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1222, Activity 010 – Livestock Census – Nil. The trend has been that all the provinces have livestock censuses. Is the Government saying that it will not conduct a livestock census in the Western Province?

Mr Sichinga remained seated.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson repeated the question.

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, that activity has been budgeted for centrally.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, this is an activity-based Budget, and the question by the hon. Member for Namwala Parliamentary Constituency seeks information on where the Vote for the Livestock Census for the Western Province is. To be told that the activity has been budgeted for centrally is insufficient. Are the five hon. Ministers in order not to show us where this activity is in the Yellow Book?

The Deputy Chairperson: The ruling is that there are four hon. Ministers.

Hon. UPND Member: Five.

The Deputy Chairperson: No.

The hon. Minister who has brought freedom to the Bench is not in that ministry. However, as he answers the next question, the hon. Minister should respond to Hon. Nkombo’s point of order.

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, before the point of order was raised I was seeking clarification on Programme 1088, Activity 004 – Development of Human Resources Database – Nil. This year, this Activity was allocated K47,536, but there is no allocation for 2014. Why is that so?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, Activity 004 has not been budgeted for because the database was established in 2013.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, address the point of order raised by Hon. Nkombo.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, the answer is the same. The exercise in question will be done centrally.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Mr Mwewa: Under the Department of Livestock.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 89/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/26 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Eastern Province – Provincial Agriculture Co-ordinating Office – K39,994,007).

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 1367, Programme 1120, Activity 007 – Crop Monitoring – Nil. Can the hon. Minister explain why there is no allocation for this activity next year when we approved K15,000 for it this year.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, the activity in question is provided for on page 1037, Programme 1120, Activity 007 – Crop Monitoring – K86,300. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on page 1368, Programme 1096, Activity 037 – Water Resources Development for Irrigation – Nil and page 1369, Programme 1151, Activity 086 – Tsetse and Trypanosomiasis Surveys and Surveillance – Nil. Why are there no allocations for the two activities in 2014?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, he has combined different programmes, but I will take the first question.

Interruptions

Mr Sichinga: Sir, Programme 1096, Activity 037 – Water Resources Development for Irrigation has not been allocated funds because it has been has been incorporated into Activity 029 – Supervision, Monitoring and Backstopping of Irrigation Activities – K15,000 under the same programme.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The other question is on page 1369, Programme 1151, Activity 086 – Tsetse and Trypanosomiasis Surveys and Surveillance. Please, respond to it. 

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, that activity is budgeted for under Programme 1012 – Infrastructure Development – K114,970 on page 1069.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Chairperson, I am on page 1368, Programme 1044, Activity 001 – Conduct Conservation Agriculture – Nil. Why is there no allocation for this activity next year when K27,596 was allocated this year?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, there is no allocation for this activity as it has been budgeted for under Programme 1102 – Land Husbandry – K214,189 on the same page.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Sir, I am looking at page 1369, Programme 1012 – Infrastructure Development – K300,000 in relation to Programme 1151 – Research and Development – Nil on the same page.

Mr Sikazwe interjected.

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I have not asked for assistance from the left.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, it would be very good if Hon. Sikazwe left the hon. Ministers to follow my thread because he is really confusing them.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Sikazwe, may you kindly go back to your seat.

Mr Sikazwe went back to his seat.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Nkombo: I am on page 1369, and looking at Programme 1012, Activity 086 – Tsetse and Trypanosomiasis Surveys and Surveillance, which has no allocation for next year, in relation to  Programme 1151, Activity 086 …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member is saying that Programme 1012, Activity 086 – Tsetse and Trypanosomiasis Surveys and Surveillance – K15,400 has no money provided for next year. The Yellow Book I have indicates that …

The Deputy Chairperson: What is the point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: Is he in order to mislead the hon. Ministers that this …

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order is not sustained. The hon. Ministers will answer.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, it is the levels of …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Kampyongo: We have got the same Yellow Book.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

There is a need for patience. Once an hon. Member of Parliament has been given the opportunity to contribute, let him do so and avoid disturbing the hon. Ministers, who are listening attentively and taking down notes. Some of these points of order do not add value to the proceedings.

Mr Kampyongo interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Member!

Do not tempt me to do what I do not want to do.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I hope we are together. I want us to compare Programme 1012, Activity 086 – Tsetse and Trypanosomiasis Surveys and Surveillance – K15,400 and Programme 1151, Activity 086 – Tsetse and Trypanosomiasis Surveys and Surveillance – Nil. There seems to be duplication because this activity appears under two different programmes. Further, I wonder whether it is logical to have Trypanosomiasis tackled under infrastructure development, as is the case under Programme 1012. I am sure that I have been very clear.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1151, Activity 086 – Tsetse and Trypanosomiasis Surveys and Surveillance, – Nil …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Mr Mwewa: It depends on where you come from. Where I come from, that is the way we speak.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Minister is answering. Do not worry about mother-tongue interference.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, of course, we did not budget for this activity under Programme 1151 for next year. We gave it an allocation under Programme 1012, and the amount is K15,400. So, it is catered for.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwale: Mr Chairperson, I am on page 1378, …

The Deputy Chairperson: We have not got there yet.

Mr Mwale: Sorry, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I am on page 1372, Programme 1002, …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Chairperson, the question by Hon. Nkombo was very clear. Is Trypanosomiasis supposed to fall under infrastructure development? That has not been answered. Is the hon. Deputy Minister in order to fail or, in any case, neglect to answer such a simple question?

I need your ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: If, indeed, the hon. Minister has failed to answer that question, he should address it as he answers the question by Hon. Mufalali.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1002, Activities 022 – National Agricultural Show – K16,000 and 028 – Provincial Agricultural Show – K8,001.  There is a significant reduction on these allocations from this year’s respective amounts of K85,000 and K30,000. What has necessitated this reduction?

Mr Chairperson, may I also have clarification on Programme 1019, Activity 006 – Livestock Disease Data Collection and Analysis – Nil. Why is there no Budget line for this activity in 2014?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 1002, Activities 022 – National Agricultural Show – K16,000 and 028 – Provincial Agricultural Show – K8,001, the reduction is due to the decrease in the number of staff to participate in these events in 2014.
    
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, to clarify the issue that Hon. Nkombo raised, in trypanosomiasis surveillance, you need laboratories. That is why it falls under infrastructure development.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: What about the other point relating to Programme 1019? Hon. Mufalali, can you, please,  repeat the question so that the Government can respond.

Mr Mufalali repeated the question.

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, the activity will be implemented within the provisions of Programme 1222 , Veterinary and Tsetse Control Services – K231,352 on the same page.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 89/26 is ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/27 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Eastern Province – District Agriculture Co-ordinating Office – K27,872,869).

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Units 11 – Petauke District – Nil, 12 – Lundazi District – Nil, 13 – Nyimba District – Nil, 14 – Katete District – Nil and Mambwe District – Nil. Why have all the programmes not been budgeted for in these districts in 2014?

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, there are no allocations to the programmes in the mentioned districts because the equipment and materials this money is supposed to cater for were procured with funds from the 2013 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mwale: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on …

Mr Mtolo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Member: Sit down.

Mr Mtolo: Sir, may I be protected. 

Is the hon. Deputy Minister in order to answer in such a generalised way when some of the activities and programmes are services that need to be provided for, not material things to be bought?

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, for the sake of clarity and putting the matter to rest, address the point raised by Hon. Mtolo as you answer the question from Hon. Mwale.

Mr Mwale: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Unit 11, Programme 1012, Activity 092 – Dam Construction – Nil. There was a provision of K500,000 this year, but there is nothing for next year, yet we know that Petauke needs dams. What has happened? Why will the people of Petauke not have provisions for new dams next year? 

Mr Chairperson, I also seek clarification on Unit 12, Programme 1012, Activity 092 – Dam Construction – Nil. This is under Lundazi Constituency, where Chasefu is. There was a provision of  K885,000 …

The Deputy Chairperson: I beg your pardon, Chasefu is not in Lundazi Constituency. It is a constituency on its own.

Laughter

Mr Mwale: I thank you, Mr Chairperson, for the correction. I meant Lundazi District. There was a provision of K885,000 this year for dams, and I know that Lundazi is in a dire need of new dams. Why is there no provision for new dams next year?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, on Unit 11, Programme 1012, Activity 092 – Dam Construction – Nil. There has been no allocation because the World Bank will fund the dam construction project in the district in question.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: And for Petauke? Is the answer the same?

Mr Mwewa: Yes, Mr Chairperson.

I thank you, Sir.
    
Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, all projects supported by the World Bank or any other organisation should be shown in the Budget. Why does this one not appear in the Budget?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, on Unit 11, Programme 1012, Activity 092 – Dam Construction – Nil, there has been no allocation due to the introduction of new Activities 18, 34, 45 and 86. This concerns Petauke District. 

Sir, on Unit 12, Programme 1012, Activity 092 – Dam Construction – Nil, there is no allocation to that Activity, again, due to the introduction of the new activities, namely, 34, 45, 239 and 404. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification of Programme  …

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, we are approving a Budget here. Are the hon. Ministers in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock in order to keep contradicting themselves when they are seated next to each other? The hon. Deputy Minister says one thing, and the Cabinet Minister says another. Are they in order to keep on misleading us?

The Deputy Chairperson: In this regard, the answer of the hon. Minister over-rides that given by the hon. Deputy Minister.
 
Hon. Sianga, you may continue.

Mr Sianga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1044, …

Mr Mwale: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Not now.

Laughter

Mr Sianga: ... Activity 001 – Conduct Conservation Agriculture – Nil. This year, there was K89,730 allocated but, next year, there is nothing. Why?

Mr Chairperson, I also seek clarification on Programme 1002, Activities 003 – Agricultural Shows – Nil. This year, there was K15,000 allocated but, next year, there is nothing. Finally, Activity 020 – Labour Day – Nil. This year, K25,517 was allocated to this activity but, next year, there is nothing. What has happened to these activities?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 1044, Activity 001 – Conduct Conservation Agriculture – Nil, there is no allocation for this year because it has been budgeted for under Programme 1102, Activity 017 – CF Data Base Development – K110,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, …

Mr Mwale: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 3926, …

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwale: Mr Chairperson, it is very important that, when you make rulings in this House, they are respected and adhered to. 

Mr Chairperson, you ruled that, when answering my question, the hon. Minister was to take into account the issues that had been raised by the hon. Member for Chipata Central, Mr Mtolo, over the question on the lack of provisions under Lundazi, Chadiza, Mambwe and Petauke districts for all programmes, not just agricultural equipment. I can cite examples like the stocking of small water bodies, updating of the fish farmers inventory, agriculture courses, agricultural shows, support to fisheries, and regulations awareness. However, the hon. Minister only answered in relation to the procurement of goods and equipment.

Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Minister in order, or are all the hon. Ministers in order not to adhere to the ruling that you gave? Are they in order not to do as you said? 

Mr Chairperson, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

If, in fact, the answer that was given by the hon. Minister was not adequate, he may be minded to address that as he answers the question by Hon. Nkombo.

You may continue, Hon. Nkombo.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, my concern is on page 1380. Therefore, the cluster of hon. Ministers should be on that page as I ask.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1151.

The Deputy Chairperson: You do not have to emphasise. They are all educated.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, earlier, I asked for a clarification on Unit 05, Programme 1151, Activity 086 - Tsetse and Trypanosomiasis Surveys and Surveillance – Nil. May I have clarification on Unit 03, Programme 1151 – Research and Development, Activity 086 – Tsetse and Trypanosomiasis Surveys and Surveillance – K28,429. 

Mr Chairperson, I also asked for clarification on Programme 1012, Activity 034 – Construction and Rehabilitation of Dip Tank (Supervision) – K170,000.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister’s answer to these questions was clear, and it was that there was no allocation for Research and Development. However, on page 1380, there is Programme 1151, Activity 086 - Tsetse and Trypanosomiasis Surveys and Surveillance - K28,429. Does this mean that the hon. Minister did not know that some amount of money had been allocated under this to the activity on page 1380?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, when I was giving the answer, the hon. Member did not concentrate on what I was saying. I did not say that it had not been provided for, but that it had been moved to Programme 1151, which the hon. Member is referring to. That is why there was no provision in the other line. If you were not talking to Hon. Muntanga while I was answering, you would have heard what I said. 

Laughter

Mr Mwewa: The explanation was very clear.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1012, Activity 092 – Dam Construction – Nil. Part of the budget we are approving is donor-funded.

Mr Mwale: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Not allowed.

Mr Chisanga: Why was there no allocation to this Vote for next year?

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Your point of order is granted, but bear the parameters in mind.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I am aware of all the parameters that you have established. That is why I am rising on this point of order. 

Sir, one of the parameters that the Chairperson has given to the hon. Minister is to respond to the point of order raised by Hon. Mwale on Hon. Mtolo’s question, but the hon. Minister has not answered. Is he in order?

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The parameters I referred to related to when you can raise a point of order. So, to that extent, you were out of order.

Please, continue, Hon. Chisanga.

Mr Chisanga: Mr Chairperson, I was on Programme 1012, Activity 092 – Dam Construction – Nil, and was asking why this Vote has no allocation when even donor-funded projects are made part of the National Budget. Secondly, …

The Deputy Chairperson: One question.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, this activity has no allocation due to the introduction of new activities, namely, Activity 018 – Construction and Rehabilitation of Camp Houses (Livestock) – K150,000, Activity 034 – Construction and Rehabilitation of Dip Tank – K1,200,000, Activity 045 – Construction of Livestock Service Centres – K100,000 and Activity 086 – Construction/Rehabilitation of FTC – K300,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members called for a division.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

I have not finished. So, what are you indicating for?

Question that Vote 89/27 – Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Eastern Province – District Agriculture Co-ordinating Office – K27,872,869 be ordered to stand part of the Estimates put and the House voted.

Ayes – (59)

Mrs Banda 
Mr N. Banda 
Mr Bwalya 
Mr Chabala
Col. Chanda
Mr Chenda 
Dr Chikusu 
Mr Chikwanda
Mr Chilangwa
Dr Chilufya
Mr Chishala
Mr Chitotela
Mr S. Chungu
Mr Evans
Mrs Kabanshi
Mr Kabimba
Mr Kampyongo
Ms Kapata
Mr Kapaya
Mr Kapeya
Mr Kapyanga
Dr Kasonde
Dr Katema
Col. Kaunda
Mr Kazabu
Ms Kazunga
Mr Kosamu
Mr Lubinda
Dr Lungu
Mr Lungu
Col. Lungu
Prof. Luo
Mr Mabumba
Mr M. H. Malama
Mr Monde
Mr Mpundu
Mr Mubukwanu
Mr Mukanga
Mr Mulenga
Mr Mumba
Mt Mushanga
Mr Musukwa
Mr Mutale
Dr Mwali
Mr Mwaliteta
Mr Mwango
Mr Mwewa
Mr P. Ngoma
Dr Phiri
Mr Sichinga
Mr Sichone
Mr Sichula
Mr Sikazwe
Dr Simbyakula
Mr Simuusa
Mr Taundi
Mr Tembo
Professor Willombe
Mr Zimba

Noes – (34)

Mr Antonio
Mr W. Banda
Mr Belemu
Mr Chipungu
Mr Chisanga
Mr Chitafu
Mr Habenzu
Mr Hamududu
Mr Hamudulu
Mr Livune
Mr Lombanya
Ms Lubezhi
Mr Lufuma
Prof. Lungwangwa
Mrs Mazoka
Mr Mbulakulima
Mr Miyanda
Mr Miyutu
Mr Mtolo
Mr Mucheleka
Mr Mufalali
Mr Mulusa
Mr Muntanga
Mr Mutelo
Mr Mwale
Mr Mweetwa
Mr Mwiimbu
Mr L. J. Ngoma
Mr Nkombo
Mr P. Phiri
Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha
Mr Sianga
Mr Simbao
Mr Sing’ombe

Abstentions – NIL

Question accordingly agreed to.

Vote 89/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Mr Lungu interjected. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

I have not delegated my powers to you, hon. Minister, to give instructions to other hon. Members of Parliament to walk out. It is as unacceptable as it is unreasonable. 

VOTE 89/28 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – North-Western Province –Provincial Agriculture Co-ordinating Office – K32,305,335).

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1120, Activity 024 – Monitoring and Evaluation – K23,000. In 2014, there was K43,000 but, in 2014, it has been reduced to K23,000. Why do we have this serious reduction on this activity?

 Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, the decrease is because the activity has been budgeted for adequately under Unit 02, Policy and Planning Department - Headquarters, Monitoring and Evaluation Unit – K2,038,285 on page 1034.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1096, Activity 042 – Water Resources Development for Irrigation – Construction of – Nil. Why has this activity not been funded in 2014?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, there has been no provision for Activity 042 because it has been incorporated into Programme 1096, Activity 003 – Conduct District Staff and Farmer Training in Irrigation Practice – K25,000, which has just been introduced in the province to enhance irrigation development.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1093, Activity 028 – Routine Seed Testing – Nil. Why is there no provision for next year?

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, the activity has moved to Programme 1122, Activity 004 – Seed Testing – K164,027.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisanga: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1001, Activity 003 – Office Administration – K63,918. This year, there was K133,415. Why is there a huge reduction in next year’s allocation?

Mr Mwewa: Mr Chairperson, the decrease is due to the introduction of pre-paid land phones and office furniture previously budgeted for.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1192, Activity 009 – Preparation and Consolidation of MTEF Estimates – Nil. This year, we allocated K49,500 to this activity. Why has nothing been provided for next year? Does it mean that the ministry will stop preparing for the MTEF?

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, the activity has been incorporated in Activity 002 – Budget Development and Planning and Co-ordination – K20,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, …

Mr Mulusa: On point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mulusa: Sir, you know me. I am a man of peace.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulusa: Sir, on my right, there is a group of very unhappy representatives of the people from the Eastern Province. You can see how the coloured amongst them is seated (pointing at Hon. Mwale).

Laughter

Mr Mulusa: Mr Chairperson, my point of order is that the hon. Members from the Eastern Province feel that, this being an activity-based Budget, line items, en mass, have been left out in terms of provisions, and that the concerns they raised were not adequately answered. Is this House in order to vote over a mistake …

Mr Mwale: Yes.

Mr Mulusa: … so that the result of our voting entrenches the mistake, instead of requesting the ministry to come back with corrections? 

I need your serious ruling to protect the interest …

The Deputy Chairperson: The point of order is over-ruled. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Long live the Chair!

Ms Lubezhi: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

I can see that Hon. Mwale is not looking as gloomy as you put him to be.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Proceed, Hon. Lubezhi.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1122, Activities 004 – Seed Testing – K164,027 and 005 – Variety Testing – K126,174. What is this variety testing? 

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Kazabu: Mr Chairperson, Programme 1122, Activity 005 – Variety Testing – K126,174 is meant for agricultural inputs for seed testing and variety assessment. The allocation is for scaling up activities that will ensure that farmers are provided with quality seed. Activity 002 will be catered for under Activity 005.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Nkombo, you may have your clarification.

Mr Nkombo: Okay, thanks.

Laughter 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, thank you very much.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, on page 1409 …

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir. 

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. 

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Chairperson, I am sacred where I am. There is almost a fight ensuing between the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock and Hon. Mulusa, with Hon. Mulusa almost flying to where Hon. Bob Sichinga is for the sake of the Eastern Province. Is Hon. Sichinga in order to look at Hon. Mulusa with such a terrible face? 

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the Chair does not see anything terrible about the hon. Minister’s face. 

Hon. Nkombo, you may continue. 

Laughter 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, my question is still on Programme 1192, Activity 009 – Preparation and Consolidation of MTEF Estimates – Nil. I asked the hon. Minister whether his ministry had stopped funding MTEF activities and the hon. Deputy Minister, the one in the middle of the cluster, …

Laughter 

Mr Nkombo: … said that Programme 1192, Activity 009 – Preparation and Consolidation of MTEF Estimates had been incorporated in Activity 002. 

Sir, I know, for a fact, that an annual Budget is a sub-set of the MTEF. So, how can the MTEF, which is the holding Budget, be part of a budget that is subsidiary to it? Can he educate me? I am sure that the senior hon. Minister understands my question. Budgets are derived from MTEFs. Your hon. Deputy Minister said that MTEF activities are now a sub-set of the Budget. Can you help me to reconcile these ideas, Sir? 

Sir, am I clear? 

The Deputy Chairperson: Which Programme are you enquiring about?  

Mr Nkombo: Programme 1192, Activity 009 – Preparation and Consolidation of MTEF Estimates – Nil. I asked whether the ministry would undertake this activity next year, and the hon. Deputy Minister said that we should not worry because the activity had been incorporated into Activity 002 which, to me, is a bit lopsided.

The Deputy Chairperson: What clarification do you seek? 

Mr Nkombo: Sir, which is a sub-set of the other, since he told me that the MTEF preparations are part of Activity 002?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Chairperson, the preparation of budgets, including the preamble, which is in the MTEF, is part of the activity. It is a continuation and, because the Budget is a sub-set of the MTEF, we have put it in one activity. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 89/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 89/29 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – North-Western Province – District Agriculture Co-ordinating Office – K 24,386,537).

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1182, Activity 004 – Procurement of Motor Vehicles – K 20,000. What type of vehicles will this little money buy?

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Continue.

Mr Lufuma: That is the first point. 

Laughter

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, is this House in order to deny the people of six districts in the Eastern Province their share of this Budget that we are discussing here by not funding programmes in those districts?

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that there is no point that requires my ruling. I have already ruled on the matter, and we are moving on.

Continue, Hon. Lufuma.

Mr Lufuma: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: The rule is one question per Member.

Mr Lufuma: I have not finished asking, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Then, clarify.

Mr Lufuma: My question was on Programme 1182, Activity 004  – …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Lufuma: … Procurement of Motor …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, now that we have realised that there is a very serious mistake …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Mwiimbu: … that has been occasioned, will there be an opportunity for the hon. Ministers of Finance, and Agriculture and Livestock to correct it for the sake of the country so that we do not pass a Budget that has a serious anomaly? Can they do that for the sake of the people of the Eastern Province. That is all we are asking for.

The Deputy Chairperson: The ruling is that you have not indicated the anomaly. Therefore, there is nothing I can rule on.

Mr Kapeya: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Lufuma: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson. Page 1444, ...

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

All of us laugh, but some of you love laughing.

(Debate adjourned)

__________ 

HOUSE RESUMED 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

_______ 

The House adjourned at 1957 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 29th November, 2013.

______