DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 6th December, 2013

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

__________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to acquaint the House with the business it will consider next week but, with your indulgence, I will just take a few moments to express the condolences of this House and sympathies with the people of South Africa over the death of their First Democratic President, Dr Nelson Mandela, who died last evening.

Zambia did a lot towards the liberation of Southern Africa. As a nation, we can say that we were gratified to see such a clever and conciliatory man take care of the very difficult transition of South Africa from a truly monster’s regime to a modern democracy.

Sir, on Tuesday, 10th December, 2013, the Business of this House will begin with Questions to hon. Ministers. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will deal with the Second Reading Stage of the following Bills:

(a) the Property Transfer Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2013;

(b) the Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2013;

(c) the Customs and Excise (Amendment) Bill, 2013;

(d) the Zambia Development Agency (Amendment) Bill, 2013; and

(e) the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2013.

Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2014 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will resume consideration of Votes 88 and 90-98 – Office of the President – Provincial Administration.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 11th December, 2013, the Business of the House will begin with Questions to hon. Ministers. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2014 Budget and will continue with the consideration of the marathon Votes 88 and 90-98 – Office of the President – Provincial Administration.

Sir, on Thursday, 12th December, 2013, the Business of the House will start with Questions to hon. Ministers. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2014 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the solitary Vote 99 – Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 13th December, 2013, the Business of the House will commence with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, otherwise known as ‘Muntanga’s Last Chance to Score’.

Laughter

The Vice-President: This will be followed by Questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. On this day, all things being equal, it is my intention to move a Motion to suspend the relevant Standing Orders to enable the House to complete all Business on the Order Paper and, thereafter, adjourn sine die.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the Central African Republic has been described as a nation on the verge of self-destruction. What is the position of the African Union (AU) on this catastrophe?

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I am not certain of the details of the AU’s position at the present time. However, the AU is aware of the problem and it will be meeting to see what it can contribute. At the moment, about three-and-half thousand African and 1,500 French troops have moved into the country.

Sir, I will be able to consult, possibly, a little bit later and let the House know of any details in terms of the AU Policy. Certainly, the AU will not let the situation get out of hand.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, the price of maize has sky-rocketed, especially in the rural areas, to a point where most households cannot afford to buy maize for consumption. What measures is the Government putting in place to address this problem urgently?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there are two ways of addressing this issue. The first one is through the Food Relief Programme for the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), which has more than double the quantity of maize attached to it for this season which is also the hunger season. The second one is through the opening of the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) silos, which is targeted for the end of this month where suppliers, millers and people wishing to consume maize will be able to get it out of the strategic food reserves at local prices without having to pay for transport from Lusaka. So, we expect the price of maize to remain fairly stable. In fact, it might drop next month.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that each worker in Zambia has more than ten to fifteen dependants who look up to him/her. May I know whether the Government will rescind its decision to reinstate the nurses who have been fired?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Government has no intention of rescinding its decision over the dismissal of nurses. They were clearly warned and left us with no option, but to put our money where our mouth is. I mean, as a Government, if you warn somebody against doing something in no uncertain terms, and he/she chooses to ignore your warning, then, it becomes difficult for you to keep him/her. Of course, the labour laws also allow essential workers to appeal against dismissal and to have special factors taken into account. So, we will expect to see some appeals. However, we cannot allow a situation like the one we have just seen where Zambian essential workers leave fellow citizens in such a fragile and vulnerable state for their own interest. That is not acceptable.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President has just returned from Botswana where he went to attend a meeting on the conservation of wildlife. Zambia, Botswana, Tanzania and other Riparian States are members of the Zambezi Watercourse Commission (ZAMCOM). Botswana is reported to be withdrawing water from the Zambezi River. This will have an impact on tourism and electricity generation in Zambia, Zimbabwe and other countries. Has Botswana requested to withdraw water from the Zambezi River from the other Riparian States?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have no idea about that. I think that the plan to pump water from the Chobe River, which is the same thing effectively as pumping it from the Zambezi River because it will backflow from the Zambezi River into the Chobe River or else it will reduce the amount flowing into the Zambezi River, has been on the cards for quite a long time. I shall certainly take this issue up. Thank you for pointing it out.

However, I do not have the details at hand. If I am given a ‘wink’ in the form of a note the day before, I can find out the answers to these kinds of questions. I am not party to the actual file that deals with the Zambezi Drawing Rights of water.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, what necessitated the closure of the non-ferrous corporation Africa (NFCA) Chambishi South East Ore Body and what measures has the Government put in place to protect the five hundred jobs for our people?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether that had to do with a Chinese cultural problem. The Chinese NCFA and Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) have been having difficulties seeing eye to eye and deciding which the critical points are and so on and so forth. There is the South East Ore Body mining extension that employs about 1,500 people or more and that is being undertaken with the tolerant eye, so far, of ZEMA. However, there are problems. One of them is the resettlement plan for the people who are going to be displaced by the surface activity which needs to be finally agreed on and is in the process of being discussed. The problem is that Hybrid Poultry Farm (Z) Limited has a breeding unit within the area that the mine is going to occupy and it is claiming that the vibrations from the underground mining will disturb the laying chickens because they are very sensitive birds, which is feasible. I do not know whether this is actually true, but it is certainly feasible.

Sir, at the moment, the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, that is responsible for ZEMA, is not here because, I believe, he is banging heads with the NFCA and ZEMA to wrap this thing up so that we create employment, collect tax revenues and make progress.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, lately, we have noted that the Government has been retiring people, who are supposed to be on contract, in national interest. What pieces of legislation are used to retire people in national interest when they are on contract because, as far as I know, you can only retire people in national interest if they are pensionable under the Public Service?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I cannot respond to that question without any specifics. There are no names mentioned or types of employment.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu indicated dissent.

The Vice-President: If the employees are on contract, then, the contract has termination clauses. Presumably, those termination clauses are being followed. If they are not, they are enforceable in a court of law. If they are permanent and pensionable, there are also conditions to retire them in public interest.

However, we are just talking generalities now. I am as enlightened by the hon. Member’s question as I was by his contribution on rainfall yesterday.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker:  A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, you have always guided this House that whenever we ask questions or debate, we should not mention individuals by name. Is His Honour the Vice-President in order to request me to start naming individuals who are affected by this issue I am raising when that is against the rules of this House?

Mr Speaker: The position is that, as a matter of Parliamentary practice, we refrain from discussing individuals. The question in point sought to elicit from His Honour the Vice-President the pieces of legislation under which the retirements are made. However, to the extent of the point of order, I agree with the hon. Member for Monze Central that we should refrain from debating individuals.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, Zambia has ten provinces. May His Honour the Vice-President confirm to the nation and this House the assertions from some quarters of society that the Southern Province is the least developed.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we are in the middle of a protracted marathon debate on the provincial Votes under the Office of the President. I have already heard three contributions, all of which have complained of the speaker’s area being discriminated against. We heard that the Southern Province, despite having the largest Vote for provincial administration, is the least developed. We also heard from the hon. Member for Mafinga that Muchinga was the least developed and so on and so forth.

Mr Muntanga interjected.

The Vice-President: We expect to hear many people, including Hon. Request Muntanga, to come and tell us that he is underdeveloped.

Mr Muntanga rose.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Maybe, the hon. Questioner should take careful notice …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Speaker:  A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President in order to drag me into his explanations and talk about me being least developed, and yet we are talking about the Southern Province which has come under siege? Is he in order to drag me into his debate?

Mr Speaker: I note that there is a traditional jest that is practised between the two hon. Members. To that extent, I will allow His Honour the Vice-President to continue.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, just to wind that up, there is always an argument about where the money is going and why it is not going to certain individuals’ constituencies. I think it would be more useful for the hon. Questioner to listen carefully, over the next three days of debate, for various allegations to get a grip of this. Zambia is an underdeveloped country and we have to admit that. There are little pockets here and there of something which looks like twenty first-century development. However, by and large, we are billions and, maybe, even trillions of kwacha-short of the type of development we would like to see across the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, now that His Honour the Vice-President has clearly stated that the nurses who were fired will not be reinstated, where is the Government going to get the nurses to replace the ones that have been fired?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is very adequate womanpower, manpower or …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question.

The Vice-President: … nursing capacity in Zambia. There is also nursing capacity which is being exported on a continuous basis. Last time, when I was in Intensive Care Unit (ICU) in Johannesburg, I requested to be nursed by Zambians and …

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for granting me the opportunity to raise this point of order. Is His Honour the Vice-President in order to state that he has got enough health workers, in this particular case, nurses, to fill the positions of those who have been dismissed when we know that there is a shortfall of over 25,000 health workers in the health sector?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

As much as the issue raised by the hon. Member for Mumbwa may be critical, I think this would be best put as a Question for Oral Answer as opposed to raising it as a point of order. Hon. Member, put it as a question and His Honour the Vice-President will respond.

His Honour the Vice-President may continue.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, 800 nurses have just graduated and we expect to take them on. The larger view, which the hon. Questioner was trying to get from me, was not a question. The question was how we are going to replace the few dozen that we have fired, and the answer is that we have enough graduates to do that several times over.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, about two months ago, a meeting was convened in one of the Committee Rooms that you chaired with His Honour the Vice-President, the hon. Ministers of Home Affairs and Justice, and the whip for the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) in order to deal with the thorny issue of the application of the Public Order Act. After that meeting, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs came to this House and assured hon. Members that he was going to release a circular to all the police departments countrywide to instruct the police on how best hon. Members of Parliament should conduct their duties whilst in their constituencies. The House is about to adjourn sine die and we have not seen that circular. I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether that was just a meeting in futility or the circular is going to be given to hon. Member of Parliament as promised by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, my impression is that matters have relaxed a lot on the public order front. In view of this, it is a lot easier to hold rallies at the moment, even for the Opposition, than it was previously. If I am not telling the truth, please, correct me, send me a note or come and see me. I may be misled, but I do not believe so. If any more detail is needed on this matter, it has to be obtained from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs who, unfortunately, is not here at the moment, so, we can take this up. I agree with you that he made that undertaking and he should carry it out.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, in the Republic of Mozambique, there are conflicts between the Mozambican National Resistance (RENAMO) and the ruling party, the Mozambique Liberation Front (FRELIMO). Further, there are Zambians living along the border between Zambia and Mozambique. Now that we are in the rainy season and there are people conducting farming activities along that border, what measures has the Government put in place to ensure the safety of Zambians who live along this border?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, details about precautionary military defence measures are like handling the combination of a safe. However, the Government does not do things that way. We are aware of the problem and we have some measures in place. Furthermore, we have a very careful eye on the Mozambican situation on our borders which, at the moment, has not developed into a threat. We know about it, we are watching it and we know what we intend to do about it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President has confirmed that development is not taking place in most provinces as mentioned by hon. Members of Parliament. I need to confirm that the North-Western Province is bemoaning lack of development, and yet there are resources that are generated from that province and that contribute to the gross domestic product (GDP). Is there a policy in place to do something about this in the remaining two years of the Patriotic Front (PF) in Government for it to be remembered by?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we need resources to develop Zambia. It is a country three times the size of Great Britain, but with about a hundredth of its infrastructure. It is the size of Texas I think, plus or minus a few square kilometres, with 13 million people. You cannot simply develop it by hoping that you can find the resources. We are looking for the resources but, in this same Chamber, when we asked for permission to source that money to bring development to many parts of Zambia, including the North-Western Province, the Opposition tried to shoot us down and said that we should work on a hand-to-mouth basis and only spend money which was in the pocket. We are trying to build toilets for university students from our resources. We are that poor. We actually had to vote to convince the Opposition that we need resources in order develop the country. I do not want to mention any …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!

The Vice-President: … of my friends in that block there because they will just rise, again, on a point of order.

Laughter

The Vice-President: If you graduate from college or university, marry and want to get a house, you have to borrow money. It is a perfectly respectable thing to do. You can get a mortgage and develop. Please, help us to develop Zambia. I can assure you that there is no apartheid when it comes to the North-Western Province. It would be a complete myth if you believed that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, recently, a task force was appointed to look into the operations of the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc. Would His Honour the Vice-President shed some light on how far it has gone with its investigations.

The Vice-President: Sir, the task force is scheduled to hand over its report today. I think the last Vice-President’s Question Time in this sitting, which will be next week, might be a better time to ask that question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, it is clear that the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has created a disaster in as far as seed distribution is concerned. When will the DMMU step in to provide seed to farmers, especially in the Southern Province?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Sir, I will send a long detailed table of allocations, dispatches, balances and percentages over to the hon. Questioner so that he can see what the current situation is, starting from the allocation down to the actual distribution. However, the problem that keeps me awake at night is not the seed, but the rain which does not seem to be starting.

Sir, with your indulgence, I just want to take up a point from Hon. Mwiimbu’s debate yesterday where he said that we had told the farmers to plant. I will also call it verbatim like he did. The ministerial statement made by the hon. Minister included the following:

“The rainfall, so far, has not been adequate to support the planting of crops, especially in the Southern, Central, Lusaka, Eastern and Copperbelt provinces as well as the south- western part of Muchinga. The Meteorological Department has advised that when the Inter Tropical Convergence Zone (ITCZ), which triggers rainfall in the country, is adequately established over Zambia, the nation shall be informed appropriately.”

Mr Speaker, I resent being accused of having told farmers to plant. The only thing I remember clearly is when the hon. Minister stood up and told the farmers not to plant too early until the rain had been established.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I want to put the records straight. I am sure the hon. Member wants to make an objection, but I would not entertain his point of order if I were you.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President’s response to the question relating to the dismissal of nurses was that we must put the money where our mouths are. There are rumours going round this town that the Road Development Agency (RDA) has constructed a road leading to his Honour the Vice-President’s private property.

Mr Muntanga: Aah!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, if that is the case, would he call that a priority area?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am not in charge of road plans.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the road in question is a public road.

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

The Vice-President: It was tarred about twenty years ago. It is being worked on without any involvement from me. This is because I do not want to either encourage or stop its construction. It is not in my backyard. I cannot be involved in matters affecting my day-to-day life when I am the Vice-President of the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the Zambia Congress of Trade Unions (ZCTU) and many other Zambians, including myself, have called on the Government to reinstate the health workers who were fired. Further, the ZCTU has threatened to take industrial action if the Government does not respond to the request.

Mr Ng’onga: Question.

Mr Livune: Sir, is the Government ready for the consequences that will come as a result of its arrogance?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think the word ‘populism’ applies to that question. He is trying to show sympathy for people who, if he was in the Government, he would have to deal with quite roughly. They seem to have got the idea that they can have anything they want. This Government has been extremely generous in the past two years with the taxation at the lower end of the scale, salaries at the lower end of the scale, including nurses and other health workers’ pay. I think we cannot simply take our generosity …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President in order to accuse the hon. Member for Katombola of being an opportunist when, actually, the points he raised relating to the ZCTU and the dismissal of nurses are in the public domain? Is he in order to accuse him of being an opportunist when he is representing the views of the majority of people out there?

Mr Muntanga: That is right.

Mr Mweetwa: I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: His Honour the Vice-President referred to the word ‘populism’. I am not too sure whether opportunism and populism mean one and the same thing.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, such things will evolve, but we are taking a hard line. The Government cannot be pushed around.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, the revenue from the mines remains very low, forcing the Government to increase its borrowing from local and international sources, and raising taxes on humble services such as air time just to make up for the low revenue from the mines.

Mr Speaker, two years after coming into power, has the Government developed any measures to stop or reduce the tax evasion which has continued in the mines despite warnings from Action Aid and many other agencies?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, sometimes, it seems that half of the people on that side of the House were my consultants in the days when I was in a consultancy company. That includes the hon. Questioner.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this goes on the whole time. Like I said last week, or the week before, the job of the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) or any tax authority in any country is to be constantly on the lookout, negotiate and query tax returns. That is how tax authorities work. It may seem very easy if you happen to be a non-governmental organisation (NGO) or an Opposition Member of Parliament to ask why more money has been collected or why this or that has not done been done. I know how easy it is because I used to sit near where he is seated now (pointing at the hon. Member). However, on this side, it does not look so easy where you realise that you actually have to pull the levers and hope they are connected to the working parts of the engine. Of course, we do not want to borrow money if we can help it. However, there are times, even in Mbala, when you have to borrow money.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, for some time now, the country has witnessed the PF members killing each other in cold blood, with the latest one being the murder at the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport. May His Honour the Vice-President comment on the assertions that the PF is a very violent party and that it came into power to maim, butcher and ‘cannibalise’ its members and the Zambians. It is believed that for the PF to survive, it needs to undertake devious activities. In view of all this, what should the Zambian people do about this situation in future?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is a very confusing question …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … but, I think, the hon.  Member tried to answer it himself. These are mere allegations. The matter, for example, of the killing at the Airport Turn-Off is before the courts of law. I am very interested to know who this person was and how he came to be killed. However, I have said before that cadres are a moveable feast. If you happen to come back to power tomorrow, …

Hon. PF Member: Which will never happen.

The Vice-President: … which may never happen, but …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … let us believe we are on a planet where it might happen, ...

Laughter

The Vice-President: … you will find that a lot of our cadres have suddenly got themselves blue Rupiah Banda (RB) t-shirts and chitenges and they will be causing you problems. That is the nature of unemployed youths and we have to manage it as best as we can. I am sure that it is being managed because I see very little evidence, at the moment, of any nonsense – sorry, not nonsense, …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … but any violence going on outside there.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the DMMU is under His Honour the Vice-President’s Office and it is supposed to be prepared for disasters. At the moment, a lot of houses in the Western Province have been brought down by a hail storm. The Ministry of Home Affairs got the tents that were sent there for the people to use.

Is His Honour the Vice-President planning to buy more tents for the Western Province or is this the responsibility of the Ministry of Home Affairs?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that question is from the blue. The hon. Member’s question has come flying at me from the sun and I cannot answer it in any detail. I, however, can easily find that out from my office during the break. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Is the time up?

Hon. Member for Chadiza, you may ask your question.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: He is still an hon. Member of the House.

Mr Mbewe: … may I find out from His Honour …

His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time expired.

Laughter

_________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ZESCO POWER LINES IN KALABO

211. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development whether the Government had  any plans to extend the ZESCO power lines from Lukona to Mapungu and Tapo Health Centre via Ngunyama in Kalabo Central Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Rural Electrification Authority (REA), has plans to extend the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) power lines from Lukona to Mapungu and Tapo Health Centre via Ngunyama in Kalabo Central Parliamentary Constituency.

As part of the planning process, REA will, in the third quarter of 2014, conduct feasibility studies to establish the possibility of extending the grid from Lukona Mission to Mapungu and other surrounding areas. However, the actual electrification will depend on the availability of funds.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister made reference to the feasibility studies that will be carried in the third quarter of 2014. I would like to find out from him …

Dr Kalila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I thank you for granting me this opportunity to raise a point of order on the way business is conducted in this House as it relates to the Order Paper.

Mr Speaker, I notice that soon after Questions for Oral Answer, there will be a report of the Public Accounts Committee to be presented today.

Sir, the Order Paper says that the report will be presented on Wednesday, 4th December, 2013, when, today is 6th December, 2013. I was wondering whether this is a simple mistake or we are in order to proceed as such.

Mr Speaker: Just read it closely. It says, “Laid on the Table.”

Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, you may continue.

Mr Nkombo: Merci beaucoup, Mr Speaker. Thank you very much.

Sir, the hon. Minister indicated that the feasibility studies for that area in Kalabo would be conducted in 2014. This is gratifying and is indicative of the fact that there is a structured plan under the Rural Electrification Programme.

However, time and time again, I have …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: … asked when the hon. Minister would come to this House with the Revised Rural Electrification Master Plan so that we can stop asking questions. Hon. Minister, when are you coming to share with this House the Revised Rural Electrification Master Plan? 

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the Revised Rural Electrification Master Plan will be made available to Parliament as soon as REA is through with its works. It is still revising the new plan because, as you are aware, new districts have been created. So, we shall make it available as soon as it is ready.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

SOLWEZI DISTRICT VETERINARY OFFICER

212. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when the Government would post a district veterinary officer to Solwezi District.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock will post a district veterinary officer to Solwezi District as soon as all the processes have been completed and the Public Service Management Division (PSMD) has granted permission.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, why is there such a long delay because the former district veterinary officer left Government service almost a year ago?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, the officer in question was posted to Muchinga Province in a higher position. He was promoted to Acting Senior Veterinary Officer, but was still appearing on the Solwezi District Payroll as of November, 2013. However, the officer has since been moved to the Muchinga Payroll. Now that this position is vacant, we are making arrangements to get a new officer.

I thank you, Sir.

_______

MOTION

REPORT OF THE PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE ON THE REPORT OF THE AUDITOR-GENERAL ON THE RDA FOR THE PERIOD OCTOBER, 2009 TO DECEMBER, 2011

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House to adopt the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Report of the Auditor-General …

Ms Imenda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mwale: … on the RDA …

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Chipangali, you may continue. 

Mr Mwale: Sorry, Sir. I thought you had granted the point of order.

Sir, I beg to move that the House to adopt the Report of the Public Accounts Committee on the Report of the Auditor-General on the RDA for the period October, 2009 to December, 2011, for the Third Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on Wednesday, 4th December, 2013.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Zimba (Chama North): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, before I begin my debate, I would like to join His Honour the Vice-President in paying tribute …

Ms Imenda: On a point of procedure, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of procedure is raised.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, mine is a point of procedure. It is a follow-up to the point of order raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu East.

Sir, the House is debating a Motion whose report should have been given to the hon. Members forty-eight hours ago. We only got the report in our pigeon holes this morning. Is it in order for the House to proceed in that line?

Mr Speaker: I will briefly reserve ruling so that I get the correct position as the hon. Member for Chipangali continues with his debate.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, before the point of order, I was saying that I would like to join His Honour the Vice-President in paying tribute to the late Dr Nelson Mandela, the former President of South Africa. Indeed, he was a gallant son of Africa.

Sir, allow me to quote Dr Mandela’s book entitled In the Words of Nelson Mandela that says:

“I hope the world will reach a stage when it realises that the use of violence against any community is something that puts us next to animals.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: I hope that all of us in this country shall live to pay tribute to Dr Mandela and remember these words in order to honour him.

Mr Speaker, your Committee, in line with its terms of reference specified in Standing Order No. 153 (2), undertook a detailed study of the …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

There are too many conversations on the left.

The hon. Member for Chipangali may continue.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, your Committee, in line with its terms of reference …

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order.

Sir, I not trying to challenge your ruling, but you have just indicated that you have reserved ruling on the point of order raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena who has indicated that this report has just been circulated today. Is the House in order to proceed with the Motion because, should you discover that the report was laid on the Table today, is it not just going to be an academic exercise? Is the House, therefore, in order to proceed with the Motion?

Sir, I seek your serious ruling on this matter.

Mr Speaker: Order!

There are two points of order here. The second point of order is misplaced because I said I was going to render a ruling soon. I wanted to consult first. So, the hon. Member for Sinda should have exercised some patience.

Mr Mushanga: Apologise.

Mr Speaker: I made that very clear when I said soon. Soon means just that. I am mindful of the nature of the problem. I am consulting while speaking and managing the Business of the House.

Anyway, I have disposed of the second point of order.

I have decided to give the benefit of doubt to the hon. Member who has raised the first point of order because there are conflicting accounts here between what I am getting from the hon. Members and what I have been briefed by my advisors. In order to resolve this in the interest of the House, this Motion will be deferred to Tuesday next week.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

___________

BILLS

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Competition and Consumer Protection (Amendment) Bill, 2013

The Environmental Management (Amendment) Bill, 2013

The Fees and Fines (Amendment) Bill, 2013

The Patents and Companies Registration Agency (Amendment) Bill, 2013

The Weights and Measures (Amendment) Bill, 2013

____________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Vote 88 – (Muchinga Province – K44,628,942), Vote 90 – (Lusaka Province – K71,735,283), Vote 91 – (Copperbelt Province – K86,543,109), Vote 92 – (Central Province – K71,183,670), Vote 93 – (Northern Province – K86,641,594), Vote 94  – (Western Province – K71,469,364), Vote 95  (Eastern Province – K78,182,138), Vote 96 – (Luapula Province – K70,266,728), Vote 97 – (North-Western Province – K72,498,449) and Vote 98 – (Southern Province – K95,327,161).

(Consideration resumed)

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Chairperson, when the House adjourned yesterday, I was talking about the development which has been taking place in Luapula Province vis-à-vis the Pedicle and Mansa/Luwingu roads. Therefore, it is important that I continue from where I left.

Mr Chairperson, there are other projects in the province that are ongoing. The first one is the Luena Farming Block in Pambashe Constituency, Kawambwa.

Mr Chitotela: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: The second one is the Chishinga Ranch which is also in Pambashe Constituency.

Mr Chitotela: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, there is development taking place in all the constituencies.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: I said that …

Mr Ndalamei: In Luapula.

Mr Mwila: … Luapula gave the PF 90 per cent of the votes. That is why it is benefitting from the developmental projects that are taking place in the country.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwila: We shall continue to benefit from the PF Government.

Sir, with regard to the Kawambwa Tea Scheme, I would like to say that …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, I am disturbed with the manner in which the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili is debating. Is he in order to tell the nation that only people who vote for the Ruling Party will get development in their areas? This is a divisive and incorrect way of doing things.

I need your serious ruling, Sir, in the interest of the nation.

The Chairperson: My serious ruling is that these points of order have a tendency of distracting debate. If we continue debating through points of order, I can see the House adjourning at 0600 AM on Friday next week. I am sorry to say this now, but it has become the norm to debate through points of order. This is the reason I tend to stop points of order.

Can you continue debating, please.

Mr Mwila: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, all the provinces want development, but it is important for us, in Luapuala Province, to talk about the development that is taking place in our province. I have not wronged anyone by doing so. That is why I have outlined the projects that the PF has implemented in Luapula Province. As a result of this, we are happy with President Sata’s leadership.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, the other project I wish to talk about is the construction of a university. The PF Government is going to construct Luapula University in Mansa. Last week, His Excellency the President attended the ground-breaking ceremony of the university and the people of Luapula Province are very happy about that.

Sir, we have also been promised a technical college in Mwense and the contractor will be on site any time soon. These are some of the projects that the PF will implement in Luapula Province.

Mr Chairperson, in addition, a secondary school is being built in Pambashe Constituency.

Mr Chitotela: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mwenda Secondary School is also being built in my constituency and in Chembe in Chief Kasoma Lwela’s Area, Chienge and Mwansabombwe. So, development is taking place in most of the constituencies, including Mansa Central and Bahati. Therefore, it is important that we talk about all these projects.

Sir, the last issue I wish to talk about is on the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). In 2010, an allocation of K180,000,000 then was released for feeder roads in each constituency. However, no grader has been to Chipili Constituency. I am urging the hon. Minister in charge of Luapula Province to find out where the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) took the money for this project.

Mr Ndalamei: MMD? Which money?

Mr Mwila: Yes, the money for 2010 and 2011. Money was given for feeder roads in Chipili and other constituencies, but nothing has been done. For this reason, hon. Minister, you must ensure that the money allocated to all the districts in the 2014 Budget is utilised.

Mr Chairperson, in next year’s Budget, we have been allocated K18.7 million. This translates to K1.2 million for our district. So, we expect more work to be done on the feeder roads.

Sir, I wish to say, on behalf of the people of Luapula Province,  that the province is very happy with the leadership of the President and the PF. Come 2016, the PF will get 100 per cent of the votes.

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Sir, in 2016, Luapula Province will be a no-go area for the Opposition.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Question!

The Chairperson: Just before we proceed, I have …

Hon. Members rose.

The Chairperson: I am still talking.

Hon. Members resumed their seats.

The Chairperson: I have received some notes from you, indicating which hon. Members, I believe after consultations, will speak on behalf of each province. That is a good idea, but it will be helpful if the three hon. Members from each province that have been picked to speak on behalf of the province can indicate. Do not expect me to go through the list that I have been given. If you do not indicate, you may not be given the Floor.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, thank very much for the opportunity given to me to debate the Vote for the Southern Province.

Sir, firstly, it is important for me to mention that having worked with the Minister for the Southern Province, Hon. Munkombwe, for this long, we, from this side of the House, do not have any difficulties with him. This is because he is a believer of the rule of law and has a lot of respect for elected members of society.

However, Mr Chairperson, I wish to say that, generally, people in the Southern Province are not happy with the state of affairs under the leadership of the PF. I would like to take a cue from the debate of the hon. Member of Parliament for Lunte who has bemoaned the PF’s failure to deliver seed to the farmers on time. This situation is not only synonymous with the Northern Province, but also the Southern Province.

Sir, the issue of failure in agriculture does not only terminate at delays in delivering the much-needed inputs, but also extends to the FRA’s failure to pay the farmers for their yield and what we call ‘copper’ in the Southern Province, that was delivered to the marketing authority in this year’s marketing season. The marketing arrangement has been a total disaster.

Mr Chairperson, the failure by the PF Government to hedge on the price of maize at harvest time saw a lot Zimbabwean traders coming to the province to buy maize from farmers at ridiculously low prices. Just today, the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa asked His Honour the Vice-President what the Government intends to do about the sky-rocketing prices of the staple food and his answer was that the DMMU has sufficient food, but let us wait and see. There is a disaster in the offing because, today, the 6th of December, 2013, the price of mealie meal has sky rocketed and I wonder what it is going to be by the end of February. There should be some introspection and reflection on how the PF Government intends to deal with the marketing season next year. Should there be fortune enough to have God’s favour, with this erratic rainfall, Zambia, especially the Southern Province, is going to have a fairly good yield as assured last week. Should this happen, the marketing season for next year should start to make sense not only for the small-scale farmers, but also the Government as a whole.

Sir, in the Southern Province, particularly Monze, Mazabuka, Siavonga and Chirundu, the PF made some assurances in the 2013 Budget. For instance, the Government promised to construct 20 km of bituminous standard township roads in Mazabuka and Monze. However, because of the reckless and unplanned spending, it has failed to fulfil that promise. Over and above that, there is a budget overrun. I do not know under which phase Mazabuka has been put regarding the upgrading of roads to bituminous standard. We have probably been put under Phase IV, whose abbreviation is also PF.

Mr Chairperson, this Government has moved us from Phase I to Phase IV on the development agenda. The PF is synonymous with Phase IV. So, from today, I think that the people who expected the 20 km of the bituminous standard road in Mazabuka will continue to refer to the PF as the Phase IV party.

Sir, yesterday, the PF, through the hon. Minister of Justice, read a very clear policy statement where he blatantly misled this House by saying that the Government was going to build a High Court in Mazabuka and Choma. I deliberately asked a question so that I could catch him napping and he decided to confer with his hon. Deputy Minister. All that the two of them could do was smile at each other. What he said in the policy statement is another anecdote of the donchi kubeba syndrome, where they say one thing, but when you get to the ground, you find that they are doing the other thing.

Mr Chairperson, we have also learnt, even from today’s debate on the Vote for Luapula Province, that the anecdote of saying, “If you vote for us, we shall bring development to your area,” is an obnoxious way of thinking. Under the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, we chose to run an indivisible democratic State where citizens are going to choose who to associate with politically and otherwise. So, everyone in the PF, starting from the President, should be banned from saying that, “If you vote for us, then, you will see development in your area.” Otherwise, the PF must change this Constitution so that we go to being a one-party State. This is a directive from me to have the statement banned because it is illegal. We cannot continue to patronise Zambians based on what one hon. Minister called a homeland yesterday.

Sir, the people of the Southern Province do not tolerate mediocrity, for lack of a better term. By saying mediocrity, I am being mild. They do not tolerate mediocrity, whereby, when you are here, you call us something else, but when you go to our community radio stations, you beg for votes. This is what the PF is all about. It never tells the truth.

Mr Chairperson, the Monze/Niko Road is one road which the President of the Republic of Zambia assured us would be a priority road under the PF. We are running towards the third year of it being in power and only has two years to go. Someone is undermining the President and that someone is within the PF. What has happened to those assurances? Is it the reason one fellow, a chief executive of a mining conglomerate, said that that pronouncement by the Head of State was just rhetoric? It is because the people that the President has entrusted to help him run the affairs of this country have not been truthful. We want the Monze/Niko Road to be tarred and not to be put under this Phase IV or the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project.

Sir, the Bottom roads should be worked on by upgrading them to bituminous standard. I have argued on the Floor of this House before that you are fortunate that the Southern Province is part of Zambia. You must consider yourself very fortunate because most of the power is generated from that province. Kariba North Bank, Kafue Gorge, the Livingstone and Itezhi-tezhi power stations are all in the Southern Province. Why should you discriminate against us now? Whether one likes it or not, I want to take a cue from the debate of the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central who said that the Southern Province is being discriminated against.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, it does not make any sense for anyone to stand on the Floor of this House and say the Southern Province has got K100 million in personal emoluments and then translate that into a development mark. Personal emoluments go into people’s pockets for them to go and buy basic needs such as food. Go and check the ministries and understand why we think that the Southern Province has been given a raw deal. Now, there is an avalanche of districts. The Southern Province only had eleven but, now, we have so many compared to Muchinga Province. However, there are fewer projects in Muchinga. So, to bring that to the comparative table does not add up to me.

Mr Muntanga: It is ridiculous.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, the Kafue/Mazabuka Road is the home for the hon. Minister of Finance. That is where he hails from.

Hon. UPND Member: Who?

Mr Nkombo: The hon. Minister of Finance. He understands what I am talking about. In 1977, he gave the people of Mugoto those settlements that were given away to Albidon Mine. So, he has relatives there.

Mr Chairperson, please, help us to work on the Kafue/Mazabuka Road which is a death trap. A lot of people have died on that road and we keep singing the same song year in and year out, and yet someone comes to this House to say we are not discriminated against. Yes, we are. The bottom line is that we are discriminated against.

Sir, I would like to say something that may be of help to the hon. Minister for the Southern Province. I want to advise the powers that be that the appointment of people to represent the Head of State is his prerogative and no one has an argument with that. However, the appointment of losing candidates in parliamentary elections to District Commissioner is not only deceit to themselves, as individuals, but also their party. To have someone who I defeated in an election presiding over the affairs of the Central Government is planting a seed of discontent. That is the reason certain people cannot command respect. We are fortunate that our hon. Minister has respect for people who are elected. In the Southern Province, maybe, there is no manpower for such appointments because people there are resolved. That is why you just get what we call in Tonga ihuswa makowa to come and represent people and then there is antagonism, …

The Chairperson: Explain what ihuswa makowa means.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, it means residue.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: It also means chaff. You now bring ihuswa makowa to prevail over the affairs of the people who are elected. To the powers that be, there is nothing wrong with their prerogative to appoint people to positions. The lady whom I defeated in Mazabuka Central is now District Commissioner for Monze. I do not see any problem there because there was no competition between the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central and herself. However, in many constituencies the same ihuswa makowa that was defeated in places like Kalomo and Livingstone has been appointed to preside over district affairs as DCs. What I can say to our colleagues in the PF is that if they want to remain unpopular in that province, they should continue appointing people who were rejected, the ihuswa makowa, to preside over the affairs of the people in districts.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, that phrase is not an insult. It just means rejects. When you are a reject, it means you are not wanted.

Sir, as I end my contribution, let me thank the hon. Minister for, at least, guiding us in the right direction this time around. The hon. Minister was once known to be confrontational, but now he is a good parent to all of us.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Vote for Central Province. I would be failing in my duty …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, order!

Mr Kapyanga: … if I did not state the role Central Province plays in this country. Central Province is the hub of the country, hence the need for it be supported. If you look at its historical background, …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Please, can we have order on my left.

Mr Kapyanga: Sir, the historical background of this country shows how Central Province has contributed positively to the liberation struggle of this country, hence the need for it to be adequately funded.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to highlight some critical issues relating to Central Province. In the 2011 General Elections the PF only managed to get three seats out of fifteen in Central Province. In spite of having only three seats, the Ruling Party has demonstrated that it is a Government for the people by taking development there. The PF Government has constructed hostels at the Kwame Nkrumah and Mulungushi universities. The PF Administration has also rehabilitated 34 km of urban roads in Kabwe and Kapiri Mposhi and has, for the first time since Independence, constructed a tarred road in Makululu.

Mr Chairperson, despite the coming in of our hardworking Provincial Permanent Secretary (PS), most of the developmental projects in Central Province have been hampered by some civil servants who have not been working hard to develop the province.

Mr Livune: Question.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Chairperson, this Government has taken development to the entire province, from Serenje to Itezhi-tezhi. Kabwe, in particular, has benefited from a lot of developmental activities. There are traffic lights now in Kabwe.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, on my left!

Mr Kapyanga: A number of roads have been upgraded in Kabwe, Serenje and Itezhi-tezhi districts. However, Central Province is the only province that has no shopping mall and airport. The province needs to have …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to mislead the House by stating that Central Province is the only province that has no shopping mall? Is he not aware that the Western, North-Western, Southern, Luapula, Muchinga and Northern provinces do not have shopping malls, too?

The Chairperson: As you continue debating, Hon. Kapyanga, take that point of order into account.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Chairperson, I am a representative of the people of Central Province. Therefore, I cannot talk about provinces where I do not reside.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: I request this House not to drift into regional or tribal debate.

Mr Livune: Question!
 
Interruptions

Mr Kapyanga: This House is for the whole nation. Therefore, I would like to reaffirm that if there is any Government that will go down in history as having done better than other Governments for walking the talk, it is Central Province – the PF Government, I mean.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: The PF Government, under the leadership of His Excellency, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, has proven that it is going to bring sanity to this country.

Mr Livune: Question.

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Chairperson, there has been development in Central Province within a short period. Kamakuti Area is one of the …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, order!

People on my extreme left, it only beholds on us to do the right thing. When you are debating, you want others to listen but, when others are debating, you want to interject. This is unbecoming behaviour. Why do you not want to listen?

Ms Lubezhi interjected.

The Chairperson: Hon. Lubezhi, that is the behaviour that I have just been talking about. I am talking about you people on my left. Please, let us listen.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Mr Kapyanga: I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 Sir, the Cattle Restocking Programme …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: … has cut across Central Province. At the moment, there are women clubs in Kabwe that have received head of cattle that will contribute to the development of the province. It is for this reason that Central Province needs a lot of support from the Government.

Mr Chairperson, we are moving towards the upgrading of the Kabwe General Hospital into a central hospital. A trauma centre will be set up in Kabwe to attend to victims of road traffic accidents that occur between Kabwe and Lusaka. Therefore, there are a lot of developmental activities the PF Government should be commended for.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Chairperson, as a result of the infrastructure development that has taken place, a lot of jobs have been created. Like I said earlier, there were no traffic lights in Central Province, but now there are traffic lights in Kabwe and street lights in Serenje, Mkushi and Chibombo. This is how well the PF Government has performed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: I, therefore, request each and every logical hon. Member of Parliament to support the Vote for Central Province. I would not hesitate to ask you people on the left to join us …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Kapyanga: … in nation building.

Laughter

Mr Kapyanga: To reaffirm what I am saying, the PF had three hon. Members of Parliament in Central Province, but there are now five. This means that its presence in the province is growing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapyanga: Therefore, you must watch out because we are coming for you.

Laughter

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Chairperson, on that note, may I …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kapyanga: … simply say that I support the Vote for Central Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Chairperson, I would like to begin my debate by thanking Hon. Mwansa Mbulakulima and all the colleagues who sent messages of condolences over the death of people who died in the accident in Rufunsa. We lost fourteen people in the accident that happened at the weekend. So, I want to ask the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to send people to see what can be done about the bridge.

Mr Chairperson, that spot where the accident happened is very bad. There is a sharp curve. Maybe, there is a need to put up some speed humps there or make it a straight road, but that can only be determined by the experts.

Mr Chairperson, within the same area, we have a police post which is almost non-functional. The only time I see police officers is at the roadblock as I approach the bridge. I think that there is a need for us to have a fully-fledged police post that can take care of the problems that arise in that area, especially those related to road traffic accidents.

Mr Chairperson, I am disappointed about the lack of knowledge of the geography of the area among the press. They do not seem to know where Luangwa or Nyimba districts are. Instead of reporting that the accident happened in Rufunsa District, they were saying that it happened in Luangwa District. This is misleading the people. They also pronounced Mpanshya Mission Hospital wrongly. I am wondering whether there are no orientation programmes for journalists to know the names of various places and institutions.

Mr Chairperson, I expected the hon. Minister for the Province or my colleagues in the Government to call me to convey their condolences. To date, none of them has done that. There was a question on the Floor last week, asking what the Government was doing about that road since we are losing so many lives.

Mr Speaker, let me go further and pay tribute to former hon. Ministers of Lusaka Province for the manner in which we related. These are Hon. Sampa, Hon. Sikazwe, Hon. Mwaliteta and, very recently, Hon. Col. Chanda. We worked very well, indeed. In the same vein, I would like to welcome the new hon. Minister for the Province, Hon. Kosamu.

Mr Chairperson, Lusaka Province is a very unique province in the sense that it is composed of the capital city, which is the urban part, and the rural part. In my debate, I want to talk about the rural part of the province. Therefore, one has to be very careful how to manage the province. Otherwise, one can end up concentrating on the urban part at the expense of the rural part.

Mr Chairperson, as hon. Minister for Lusaka Province, one needs to pay special attention to the rural part where there are numerous challenges. There are roads that need to be worked on. I have one road in mind that leads to Mkushi from the Great East Road via Shikabeta. This is one road that we have been talking about because it requires rehabilitation. We shall wait and see whether it will be worked on under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project or using the budgetary allocation.

Mr Chairperson, as an hon. Minister, you need to look at the challenges that chiefs face, particularly their accommodation. You also need to look at the boreholes in the rural areas which are very few, especially in my district.

Mr Chairperson, Lusaka Province has grown. There were about four districts, but now there are eight. With this growth, it is even more important that there is more presence of the provincial administration. It is a big challenge to manage Lusaka Province because of its size.
 
Sir, some of us feel that we have been overshadowed. Creating a new province, especially that we are separated from the capital city, will help accelerate development. It will also create a sense of belonging among the people. Most people in areas like Shibuyunji, Chirundu and Kafue do not know where the provincial headquarters for Lusaka are. If Lusaka Province is split into two, it will be a lot easier to locate our leaders.

Mr Chairperson, the province has been allocated K71,735,283 only. This is very small.  If you divided this by the number of districts in Lusaka Province, you would get K15,000,000 or K20,000,000 for each district. What can be done with this amount of money?  If the province was split into two, I am confident that this money would target development programmes more effectively and the allocation would be increased from the K71,735,283. As you all know, some provinces have higher allocations than others, but I feel that it is better to allocate the same amount of money to all the provinces.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Chairperson, we need more money to build roads. I was looking through the Yellow Book and was very disappointed that some of the major roads that are supposed to be worked on, particularly in my district, have no allocations. Some roads like Chomba Chipeketi and Shikabota, which are off the Great East Road, need to be worked on. Unfortunately, the lack of allocations for these roads will result in people in the areas where the roads are located complaining about the poor state of the roads. Even where money has been allocated, the amount is so small that it will not be possible for the contractor to do a good job. As long as we continue receiving small amounts of money from the Government, there will be no development in the province, especially in the rural part of Lusaka Province.

Mr Chairperson, I want to encourage the provincial administration to show interest in the rural part of Lusaka. It is important that the administration knows the rural part of Lusaka very well even before making the budget. In the past, hon. Members of Parliament used to sit together each time there was budget planning. However, I do not know what happened this time. I came to Parliament Buildings this morning without having looked at the budget for Lusaka Province. I really do not know what has happened.

Mr Chairperson …

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 until 1100 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the

Chair]

Mr Chipungu: When business was suspended, I was about to urge the hon. Minister to invite me each time the budget is being prepared. Whether I am from the Opposition or not, do not discriminate against me because this has been the trend for Lusaka Province. Members of Parliament from the Opposition must have an input in the preparation of the budget for the province. If I had participated in the budgetary process, I would have told you the areas that need more money. You must know your province very well. Rufunsa is a district now and we appreciate that. We are also ready for development. However, development is not all about the Government putting up infrastructure. My appeal is that individuals and hon. Members of Parliament should come forward and invest in Rufunsa District. We want to see someone put up a filling station in the district, another person putting up a pharmacy while one person could be selling seed and fertiliser and so on and so forth. This is what we are looking forward to. Rufunsa should have been turned into a district a long time ago. Unfortunately, this was delayed.

Lastly, Mr Chairperson, I would like to pay tribute to the PS and his staff. I worked very well with the former PS, Bridget – I cannot remember her other name. She was from the army. She worked very well in the province, especially when she worked with Hon. Col. Chanda. Rufunsa was made a district during her tenure of office. However, my worry is the turnover of leaders in the province. I am not attacking the appointing authority, but in less than two years, we have had over five Provincial Ministers, and I do not know how many PSs we have had. There is no continuity.

Interruptions

Mr Chipungu: Mr Chairperson, how can someone say, “What is wrong with that?” We need continuity for the sake of development. If there is a new PS every six months, then there is a problem.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Vote on the Floor.

Sir, firstly, I would like to join His Honour the Vice-President in conveying condolences to the people of South Africa on the demise of that great man, Dr Nelson Mandela, a man I have met once when I was Minister of Foreign Affairs. The only sad thing is that I have not seen any of the African leaders try to emulate him, which is a shame.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame.

Mr Pande: He was a great man. If the Almighty God had put his life to a vote, the entire world would have voted 80 per cent for Dr Mandela to continue living. May his soul rest in peace.

Mr Chairperson, we, the hon. Members of Parliament from the North-Western Province, gave the hon. Minister for the Province a warm welcome and are happy that he listens to us. We will continue relating with him because we consider him an agent of development. We expect him to co-ordinate, monitor and implement the projects in the province.

However, Sir, we would like him and his PS to pay attention to some of the DCs in the province. They are supposed to be his agents in the districts. However, it is disappointing that some of them are not engaged in developmental activities but politics. It is understandable because most of the DCs, if not all of them, contested against a number of hon. Members of Parliament in the Opposition. They were rejected by the people, but have been given positions of DC. They have lamentably failed to understand developmental issues. Therefore, I would urge the hon. Minister and his PS to look into this issue so that we can have development in the North-Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, what I am going to talk about here is not coming from Kabinga Pande, but the people of Kasempa and the North-Western Province. The people of the North-Western Province have not seen any capital projects that have been initiated by the PF Government since it came to power.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: This is attributed to what His Excellency the President said on two occasions when he went to the province. During the Mufumbwe and Solwezi East by-election campaigns, he said that if the people of the North-Western Province did not vote for a PF candidate, they would not see any development. The perception of the people of the North-Western Province is that the Republican President does not like them as evidenced by the lack of developmental projects in the province.

Sir, there are a number of projects that are listed on the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project in the province. These have been appearing as medium-sized projects. We do not know whether they fall under the Phase III of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project because we heard that the Northern Province is under Phase II and the Southern Proving is under Phase IV. So, maybe, the medium means Phase II. The province does not deserve this at all, particularly that the Solwezi/Chingola Road carries the copper ore or mineral wealth of this country. We expected the PF Government to make that road a priority so that a large extent of it is tarred. Currently, it is being resurfaced. We want it to be a dual carriageway because, presently, there are many accidents happening on that road. It is only about 186 km, but it takes more than four hours to get to Chingola from Solwezi.

Sir, I would like the hon. Minister to pay attention to a number of roads in the province that are appearing in the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, but are not receiving any attention at all. These are Zambezi/Chitokoloki/Mpindi, Zambezi/Nyakuleng’a and Mwinilunga/Jimbe which is an international Road. There are also the Chavuma/Angola Border, Kaoma/Kabompo, Kasempa/Mumbwa and Kasempa/Kaoma roads. I also urge the hon. Minister for the province not to fly or use the Chingola/Solwezi Road whenever he is going to Solwezi. He should try to use the Mumbwa/Kasempa Road to get to Solwezi. When going to his constituency in Mongu, he should use the Kaoma/Kasempa/Solwezi Road for him to appreciate what we are talking about. Once these roads have been worked on, the Kasempa/Mumbwa Road will be a shorter route to Solwezi. However, in the current state, one would not want to use it though I always use it.

Mr Chairperson, why do the people of the North-Western Province keep saying that they are being discriminated against? It is because of the actions of the PF Government.

Sir, regarding the creation of districts, the Northern Province was the biggest and the second biggest province was the North-Western, but how many new districts have been created in the North-Western Province? Only one and it was because Hon. Ching’imbu was supposed to have crossed the Floor at the time he was being appointed Deputy Minister.

Interruptions

Mr Pande: That is how that district was created. Out of the thirty newly-created districts, none of them is in the North-Western Province. Currently, the North-Western Province is the biggest in the country. So, can you stop people from saying that they are being discriminated against? No. Yesterday, it was interesting to hear that there is discrimination in Muchinga Province because, in my understanding, discrimination is like tribalism. If someone has tribalistic tendencies at the national level, this will trickle down to the province. After that, it will go to the district and then down to the family.

Sir, this is what we heard yesterday. People have been talking about Muchinga being given preferential treatment, but now it has come to light that, actually, it is not the entire Muchinga which is benefitting because there are people in Muchinga who are being discriminated against.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame.

Mr Pande: This is not right. As a unitary State, development must be spread equally to all the parts of the country.

Mr Chairperson, there is some infrastructure that I would like the hon. Minister and the PS to pay attention to and make a follow-up on. Nothing is being said about the opening of universities in the North-Western Province, and yet we have been looking forward to this. I remember the First Republican President, Dr Kaunda, proposing that the University of Agriculture be in the North-Western Province. Surprisingly, the current Government has shown no interest in that. The North-Western Province also needs a university.

Mr Livune: Maybe, you are in Phase IV.

Mr Pande: Somebody is saying that, maybe, we are in Phase IV, but we need to be in Phase 1.

Interruptions

Mr Pande: Mr Chairperson, there are a number of schools that the hon. Minister should make a follow-up on. There are schools whose tenders were advertised in 2011. However, to date, nothing has taken place. We do not know what has happened to those tenders. These are Kawanda in Kabompo, Mapunga and Mumena in Solwezi, Mwange in Zambezi West, Nswana Kuda in Mwinilunga, Kaminzekenzeke and Kashima in Mufumbwe. Works at Kaimbwe in Kasempa have stalled.

Sir, a number of schools in the province had their roofs blown off and this was reported to the Vice-Presidents Office. As a result, they had to close earlier than the other schools. These are Nyakuleng’a and Kelongwa in Kasempa.

Sir, there are a number of roads that are appearing in the Yellow Book for 2012/2013, but they have not been worked on. These are Kuluwashi, Kabulamema in Kabombo and Kabukafu, and Kanjibinjibi in Kasempa.

Sir, we would like to know what is going to happen to these roads. Some of them are still appearing in the 2014 Budget. Is the situation going to be the same every year? Are they put in the Yellow Book for appeasement? The people want to see the projects being implemented and not just their appearance in the Yellow Book. Like I said earlier, DCs are supposed to identify which projects are not being implemented and report to the relevant authorities.

Mr Chairperson, the people of the North-Western Province pay tribute to the late President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., because they believe that, without him, the North-Western Province would not be what it is today. It was one of the forgotten provinces together with Luapula and the Western Province. Things began to happen in the North-Western Province when President Mwanawasa came on the scene. The Kansanshi Mine, which is there today, is the second one to be opened. There was a mine before this one which one of the previous Governments closed and demolished. When President Mwanawasa came to power, Kansanshi Mine was resuscitated. That is why the people of the North-Western Province will never forget President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. Yay his soul rest in peace. We thank God that when Former President Rupiah Banda came to power, he continued looking after the North-Western Province.

Sir, we would like President Michael Chilufya Sata and his Government to leave a legacy in the province. However it should not be a legacy of discrimination, but that of development. The people of the North-Western Province will continue to feel discriminated against as long as projects for the province are just on paper without any implementation. They will continue to feel that way as long as the Solwezi/Chingola, Kasempa/Mumbwa, Kaoma/Kabompo and Mwinilunga/Jimbe roads are not worked on. Zambia is supposed to be a unitary State. We do not deserve this kind of treatment, especially that a large chunk of the money that is going to the Treasury comes from the North-Western Province.

With these remarks, I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the provincial Votes.

Sir, the people of the Copperbelt appreciate the growth that the PF has brought about.

Hon. Livune: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, I can attest to what I am saying. I am not politicking, but being factual, considering what is on the ground.

Sir, the road infrastructure has changed the face of the Copperbelt. Day in and day out, we used to travel on roads that had potholes. Currently, the road network has greatly improved.

Hon. Livune: Question!

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, I will cite a few examples of roads that have been worked on. The Sabina/Kalulushi Road was impassable and people who worked in Chingola, but lived in Kalulushi had to go through Kitwe to get to Kalulushi. The road, which is a shorter route between Chingola/Mufulira and Kalulushi, is now under construction.

Hon. Ng’onga: Hear, hear! Eba PF aba.

Hon. Livune: Question!

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, the other road is the Kalulushi/Kalengwa Road. Most of the people who live on the Copperbelt know what the state of the road was before it was worked on. It used to take several hours, if not days, to get to Kalengwa because the road was completely dilapidated. Today, the road is in very good shape. The PF Government has done a good job of having the road worked on. In fact, most parts of the road have already been worked on. Like one of my colleagues said, it will now be easy to travel to Kasempa using this road.

Sir, the Kitwe/Chingola Dual Carriageway recently …

Mr Simbao: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson:  A point of order is raised.

Mr Simbao: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order. The rules of debate in this House are such that the debater must feel free when he/she is debating. Is it in order for the hon. Minister for the Copperbelt to sit close to the hon. Member who is debating so that he does not debate freely?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that, so far, the hon. Member who is debating has not been consulting the person who has chosen to be his neighbour. So, the hon. Member can continue debating. In any case, perhaps, they are consulting each other on matters of mutual interest.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, before I was interrupted by that point order, I was talking about the road infrastructure. The Kitwe/Chingola Road, which was launched by His Excellency the President, is key to the Copperbelt. We have lost a number of lives between Kitwe and Chingola due to heavy traffic and His Excellency the President has paid particular attention to the road. The President launched that road and we are really grateful that many lives will be saved once the road has been constructed. I thank His Excellency the President for that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Livune: Question!

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, as if that were not enough, the Ndola/Kitwe Dual Carriageway is under reconstruction and some parts of this road are now operational. This shows that the PF Government is paying special attention to infrastructure development and this is the way to go. The economic growth of the country can only become a reality if there is a good road network in the country. Once the investors come to a country and the road network is not good, they are discouraged to go into certain areas. As a country, it is our responsibility to work on infrastructure in order to attract investors.

Sir, I would also like to talk about the famous Mufuchani Bridge which is key to the Copperbelt. Once this bridge has been constructed, it will open up the new Kitwe. The houses for the people who are going to be relocated to pave way for the construction of the bridge have been built. All that is left is to hand over the houses to the occupants.

Sir, the industrial clusters that the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry mentioned, will be set up in that area. This is good development for Kitwe and the Copperbelt as a whole.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Sir, it has taken many years for the Mufuchani Bridge to be worked on. Lives have been lost on that bridge. Governments have come and gone, but the PF Government, under the leadership of Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, saw it fit to work on it for the sake of the people of Kitwe and Kwacha Constituency in particular. There will now be a lot of development in Kitwe and Kwacha Constituency in particular. That is why we say that the PF is a party of men and women at work.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, there are two universities in Kitwe. There is the Copperbelt University (CBU) and Mukuba. Currently, Mukuba University is undergoing rehabilitation. Various structures such as lecture rooms and hostels for the students are being constructed. The CBU, where bed space has been a challenge, has also been included in the Budget. The hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education has said that more student hostels are going to be built to help alleviate the accommodation problem at the institutions of learning. We, therefore, thank the PF Government for all this.

Mr Chairperson, currently, there is a project for street lighting on the Copperbelt. When you enter Kitwe from Ndola at night, you are greeted by very nice lights all the way to the first traffic lights on Central Street. All this was not there before. We, therefore, thank the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province who is seated behind me and ask him to keep up the good work because this is the development the people were ‘crying’ for.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about sanitation and water development. The Nkana Water and Sewerage Company has embarked on a programme to renovate and expand its water works because water supply has been a big challenge on the Copperbelt where demand is higher than supply, especially in my constituency, Kwacha, and Wusakile Constituency. In fact, my constituency houses the water works. The Government, through its agents, is expanding the infrastructure. We hope that the water shortages will be a thing of the past.

Sir, on sanitation, I would like to assure the people of Kwacha that plans for putting up water- borne toilets in the constituency are underway. The project is on course because the Ministry of Local Government and Housing has submitted the bill of quantities to the Ministry of Finance. Works will start as soon as the hon. Minister of Finance releases the funds for this project. He is in the House and he is listening to the debate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, the other worrying issue on the Copperbelt is that of deforestation. As a province, we need to sensitise charcoal burners on the importance of preserving our forests because this is what is bringing about climate change. We need to look after the trees in our province so that we do not disturb the weather patterns.

Sir, the other issue I would like to talk about is in regard to the RRU. Part of the Copperbelt Province is rural. I would like to urge the hon. Minister for the Province to pay particular attention to the rural areas so that we can open them up because there are many farmers there and transport is a problem. So, we need to open up the feeder roads.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Mutale: I am not hammering but requesting.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Mutale: Sir, we need to open up the rural areas so that people can transport their produce easily.

Mr Chairperson, we have had assistance from our co-operating partners such as the Copperbelt Energy Corporation Plc (CEC) and Mopani Copper Mines Plc. The CEC constructed a bridge between Kwacha and Kamfinsa constituencies. This bridge is now servicing people in that area. Kitwe is now open because one can get to Ndola Road from Nkana East and Ndeke using the Presidential Road. We thank the CEC for giving us that bridge which has helped to decongest traffic in Kitwe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, Mopani Copper Mines Plc has helped the Government to construct a ring road in Kitwe that has reduced traffic on our roads. The people going to Solwezi and Chingola had difficulty transporting their goods because the road was full of potholes. Mopani Copper Mines Plc came on board and constructed the road. Now, people travel on that road without any difficulty. 

Mr Chairperson, with regard to health, I am glad that …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, it is clear, from the debater’s own admission, that the PF Government is failing some parts of the Copperbelt. Is he in order to refuse to hammer his Government …

Laughter

Mr Livune: … so that it can perform? He has failed to tell it to work so that people can have the required services.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that since he has no hammer in his hands …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: … he does not want to hammer anybody.

Continue, hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, I think the hon. Member is just jealous of me.

Sir, I am very happy to see improvement in the level of cleanliness in our hospitals. I can give an example of the Kitwe Central Hospital. In the past, there was a stench at that hospital, but that is no longer there. The surroundings of the hospital are very clean. The inside of the hospital is also very clean. Even though it is sometimes difficult to achieve this level of cleanliness, I must thank the hon. Minister of Health for uplifting the standards at the hospital.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutale: Mr Chairperson, Kitwe Central Hospital is a referral hospital and it has improved tremendously. So, I thank the hon. Minister for that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to debate on the Votes for the provinces.

Mr Chairperson, from the outset, allow me to join His Honour the Vice-President in remembering and paying tribute to the great son of Africa, Dr Nelson Madiba Mandela. May his soul rest in eternal peace.

Mr Chairperson, let me say that, as national leaders, it is not in our interest to discriminate against our people. We have always said that it is not right to politicise development. Whilst some people are bragging about how some provinces have been affected for having voted for the PF, I want to say that the Northern Province also overwhelmingly voted for the PF, but there is nothing there to show for it or brag about.

Hon. Opposition Members: Nothing.

Mr Mucheleka: We have been told that the province is under Phase II of infrastructure development.

Mr Simbao: Yes.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, you may wish to know, and I have said it before, that the Northern Province has given birth to two provinces which are Luapula and Muchinga. What development is there in the old province? We have been told that a university will be constructed in future.

Mr Lufuma: In 2017.

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, the province is under the second phase of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. For the agriculture activities, particularly the construction of silos, we have been told that we will be considered later. Even for the stadium, we were told that we will be the last ones to be considered, and yet the people of the Northern Province voted for the PF overwhelmingly.

Mr Simbao: Yes, yes.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, the point I am making is that we must desist from misleading Zambians. Zambians are taxpayers whether or not they voted for the PF.

Mr Sianga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, they deserve development and we are talking about equality and equity.

Mr Mulusa interjected.

Mr Mucheleka: The moment you start politicising development and bragging about it, others will ask you why they have been left out.

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi in order to mislead himself by not mentioning that there are two major road projects, the Mansa/Luwingu and Kawambwa/Luwingu roads that are currently being implemented in the Northern Province?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: You have debated your point of order.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, the Mpika/Kasama/Mpulungu Road is in a state of disrepair. So, it requires attention.

Mr Simbao: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, the Mbala/Nakonde Road is also in a state of disrepair and it requires attention.

Mr Chairperson, the Northern Province is in the third ecological zone which is a high rainfall area. Already, most of the feeder roads are becoming impassable. Farmers, despite having worked very hard, sold their maize to the FRA, but have not been paid in full.

Mr Simbao: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, the transporters who ferried maize on behalf of the FRA have not yet been paid. All the farmers in Mbala, Kasama, Luwingu, Mporokoso and Kaputa have not been paid.

Mr Sikazwe: Nachita declare interest.

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, in Luwingu District, where I have the privilege of representing the people of Lubansenshi Constituency, there are projects that have been abandoned. The Farmers’ Training Centre, which was constructed under the MMD Government, has been abandoned for the past two years or so.

Mr Muntanga: Aah!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, in the Northern Province, we have perennial rivers and streams. So, if you are talking about irrigation development, it is an important province to consider. Quite a number of farmers are moving from other provinces to the Northern Province because of the potential that is there. So, this is an issue that needs to be seriously looked at.

Mr Chairperson, in the Northern Province, there is the Kasaba Bay. I am aware that we have a challenge at the moment because the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) is investigating that project. However, we do not know how long the investigations will take. In addition, the project has been abandoned. The runway at the Kasama Airport has not been upgraded to bituminous standard. How, then, are we going to promote the much-talked about Northern Circuit in tourism? That is an issue that needs to be attended to seriously.

Mr Chairperson, people in the Northern Province, particularly those in peri-urban areas, have no access to water and sanitation services. The Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company has serious problems that need to be attended to. Even if the province is in the second phase of infrastructure development, you can still do something for the Northern Province. That is why it is not right for us, national leaders, to divide our people. The other day, a certain hon. Minister accused me of dividing the people of Muchinga and Northern provinces. I can never do that because I am a national leader. When I speak for the people of the Northern Province, I am also speaking for the people of Muchinga, Luapula, Western, Southern, Northern and other provinces.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, we are national leaders.

Mr Muntanga: That is right.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, let me now speak for the people of Central Province. You should consider reopening the Zambia-China Mulungushi Textiles so that it can create employment opportunities for people in Kabwe. The next hon. Member who will speak on behalf of the Central Province should address this issue.

Mr Nkombo: Yes.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, what is happening in Lukashya and Kasama Central constituencies in terms of development?

Mr Simbao: Zero.

Mr Mucheleka: There is nothing happening there. Is there any difference between the people of Lubansenshi and Lupososhi where my brother comes from?

Hon. Opposition Members: No.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, we are the same people. Is there anything happening in Lupososhi that is not happening in Lubansenshi? The people of Lubansenshi, like the people of Lupososhi, are in perpetual poverty. The people of Luwingu also voted for the PF overwhelmingly, but have nothing to show for it. Do not discriminate against people because they are asking why.

Sir, the people of Lupososhi voted for the PF and the people of Lubansenshi voted for the PF, but they are the same people. The problems that my colleague in Lupososhi has are the same problems I have in my constituency. As hon. Members of Parliament from Luwingu District, we have a responsibility of representing our people without looking at political affiliation. They are all Zambians and cannot be discriminated against based on their voting preferences. After all, they are taxpayers.

Mr Chairperson, I want to talk about the challenges that we face in the mining sector. Why should we subsidise the mines when we are borrowing very heavily to put up infrastructure in the constituencies on the Copperbelt? We have an opportunity to increase our domestic resource mobilisation.

Sir, as national leaders, we should be talking about the Chingola/Solwezi Road. Let us have a holistic approach to development because the people you are discriminating against are the same people you will want to vote for you next time around. The moment they realise that you are discriminating against them, you should know that your days are numbered because they will rise against you.

Mr Chairperson, the Northern Province needs a fair share of the national cake. When you discriminate against regions, people start asking questions. The people of the Northern Province are asking whether this is what they deserve because they know that they deserve better. The Northern Province must not be relegated to the second phase of infrastructure development.

Sir, having said that, I would like to conclude by saying that the issues affecting our people in Zambia require sober reflection and attention from all of us irrespective of which political party we represent. When we are here, we represent Zambians and not a particular ethnic grouping or region.

We have a vibrant and hardworking hon. Minister in the Northern Province who requires our support. Regardless of the political party hon. Members of Parliament from the Northern Province belong to, we are ready to work with him. However, he must also refrain from politicising issues of development.  

Mr Chairperson, the issue of DCs has already been raised by my colleagues. I want to add on to what they said by saying that most DCs in the Northern Province cannot even read or write their names.

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: I have stood on the Floor of this House before to call for tailor-made programmes for DCs that will expose them to the operations of the Government since they have a tendency to concentrate on politics, which is not right. The people of Lubansenshi are asking a lot of questions. I am not competing with the DCs. Some of them stood on the PF ticket, but lost the elections. They are not adding value to your work. If anything, they are the ones who are de-campaigning you the same way that the DCs under the MMD de-campaigned you. Let us take time, sit down and express confidence in each other and not look at who belongs to which political party.

Mr Chairperson, I want to briefly touch on the issue concerning Paramount Chief Chitimukulu. I want to appeal to this Government to leave him alone. Can you leave these matters to the competent authorities and recall the police officers you have deployed in the area. The people in Mungwi District in the Northern Province are defenceless. They do not have guns. They are not going to fight you because the issue of the Chitimukulu is not an issue at all. It is not for the Government to decide who should be Chitimukulu, but the Bemba people. There are matters that you can deal with and those that you should leave to the competent traditional authorities. This interference in our affairs must stop because we are watching you. When we do not react, it does not mean that we are weak. 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mucheleka: It is not a sign of weakness.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order. Is the hon. Member of Parliament who has been debating very well so far, in order to continue politicising the issue of Mwine Lubemba, His Royal Highness Paramount Chief Chitimukulu? Is he in order to continue to be swayed and advised by people who do not know Lubemba and, in the process, politicise issues to do with his chiefdom? I seek your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Why are there police officers there?

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that since the Budget is all about development, and chiefs are agents of development, he is in order to debate in that manner.

Continue, hon. Member.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Chairperson, I would like to make a very passionate appeal to the Government to withdraw the police officers from that area.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Otherwise, you will be held accountable.

At the moment, there are a lot of social vices taking place in the area. There is a lot of domestic violence and sooner or later, you will hear about diseases and unplanned pregnancies in the area because the police officers you have deployed there are interfering in people’s marriages since they do not know why they are there.

Laughter

Mr Mucheleka: Please, withdraw them. Having said this, Sir, I support the budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Lungu (Chama South): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for affording me this chance to contribute to the debate on the Vote for Muchinga Province on behalf of the people of Chama South in particular, and Chama District and Muchinga Province in general.

Mr Chairperson, I am thankful that you have given me this chance to highlight what is pertaining in Muchinga Province and put the record straight. I have looked, with a keen interest, and studied the budget for Muchinga Province in detail. There are some things I want to commend the Government for and others I want to be improved on. 

First and foremost, I would like to talk about capacity building. Money has been set aside for staff development and this is commendable. Once we invest in human resource, we will move away from the utmost fear of relating with ignorance and walking on a platform of wisdom and intelligence. Therefore, equipping men and women in Muchinga Province with good skills will be good for us. 

Mr Chairperson, I understand that Chama District may need a university, but this must be in the long term. For now, Chama District needs trades training institutes. This is because once people are trained in short-term courses, that is diploma and certificate courses, they can be offloaded onto the market in the district. At the moment, there is a robust construction industry in Chama District. Therefore, if we help young men and women acquire skills such as plumbing, bricklaying and others, they will be directly offloaded into the industry and earn a living and contribute to the economy. As far as I am concerned, universities are important but, at the moment, what Chama District needs most is a trades training institute. Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa will agree with me that when a teacher plans a lesson, he/she has general objectives and specific objectives. Specific objectives entail that students demonstrate behaviourally by being able to do certain things. They must be able to analyse and evaluate issues and this is what we are interested in.

In Chama, we want to put up infrastructure. We want to dig boreholes. We do not need to import labour to dig boreholes in villages. As far as we are concerned, we are okay with the establishment of trades training institutes. We are part and parcel of Muchinga Province, no doubt about that. We are aware of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project and Chama has already benefited from it. The distance from …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Lungu: … Chama to Matumbo is 100 km, from Chama to Chinsali, the distance is 150 km, from Chama to Lundazi, it is 190 km and from Lundazi to Chipata it is 174 km. If you are doing business, you want to get to your destination quickly. Sometimes, one has to go to Matumbo or Chinsali, which are 100 km or 150 km away to do business. We are actually happy that the road is being worked on because it will enable us to do business faster. We now have more money in our pockets.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Lungu: So, that is a job well done.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about resettlement schemes. Most people in Chama South and Chama North have been displaced because there are serious floods in the area. There are two resettlement schemes in Chama. There is Kaozi in Chama South and Chibale. However, money has not been apportioned for the two resettlement schemes. My desire is to have money set aside for this so that we resettle people accordingly. This is what is meant by sharing the cake equally. I am emphasising that resettlement schemes are very important and they should be funded properly.

Mr Chairperson, we need a lot of boreholes. I come from a rural constituency where water is a problem. Human beings and animals have to share the same water source, which is not right. If we can apportion more money to rural water reticulation, that would be better for us because our lives will improve and we shall live longer.

Mr Chairperson, life expectancy in Chama South is very low. If one lives beyond the age of forty, he/she is very lucky. I am over sixty years old now and I am celebrating. It is not good for others not to reach my age. This point I am making is very important.

Mr Mbulakulima: You are younger than me.

Dr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, Chama District Hospital has just been completed and, very soon, doctors will be posted there. This goes to show that we, like Chinsali and Mpika, are also getting a share of the national cake. I am quite happy that Chama District Hospital is about to be opened.

Mr Chairperson, Chama Boarding Secondary School in Chama South has just been completed and will be opened in January, 2014. Is that not equitable sharing of the national cake?

Mr Muntanga: Sharing amongst yourselves.

Dr Lungu: Mr Chairperson, I would also like to talk about the issue of the human-animal conflict. My constituency is in a game management area (GMA) which has been a source of concern for a long time. My colleague, the Minister for Central Province, Hon. Mwaliteta, will agree with me that the human-animal conflict has been a serious problem. My appeal is that money is set aside to help feed the villagers who have lost their crops due to the human-animal conflict. Sometimes, elephants go into the villages while people are sleeping and eat all the mangoes and destroy crops.

Mr Chairperson, when we take these reports to the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), we are told that this must happen for at least ten times for them to take action. That is not very good for us as a party. It is important that we resolve the human-animal conflict. So, we need more money for this.

Mr Chairperson, I am quite sure that all my friends here would like to support the Vote for Muchinga Province since it is a new province. I am appealing to my colleagues to, please, support this budget. The province is growing, but this growth will not take place overnight. It is a gradual process. To the people of Chama South, Chama North and Chama District, we are saying that the Government is on course, it is doing very well and we are also receiving part of the national cake.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to debate. I would have liked the Chairperson for the Committee on Reforms and Modernisation to be here. We talk about wigs as part of mordernisation, but we must also talk about removing jackets so that we can feel free to debate.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, firstly, let me make a few remarks on Luapula Province and probably make it known to my colleagues that the impression that has been created that Luapula has arrived or landed is not correct. Luapula is still wallowing in poverty. The advantage of scientific evidence is that you cannot dispute it because it is not personal-to-holder. The actual statistics in this country indicate clearly that the Western and Luapula provinces …

Dr Kaingu: Yes.

Mr Mbulakulima: … are the ones at the bottom rung of the development ladder.

Dr Kaingu: You know that.

Mr Mbulakulima: Luapula is stuck on the second rung from the bottom. In my maiden speech, when I welcomed the President to State House, I said that I did not believe that one could rise to the position of President and come out with nothing, as some people imply. He will definitely do something like any other President has done. Equally, if the PF Government is serious, we expect them to indicate to the people of Luapula that while Luapula was on the second rung from the bottom, it has moved up to the sixth or fifth rung. Then, all of us will pay tribute to it.

Mr Chairperson, the other time, I said that it is actually a universally-known fact that development will not make any sense if we depend on statistical projections and quotations by Government officials, but when the living conditions of citizens and communities are better than they were. So, as a new Government, we must prove to the people of Luapula that they are now better than we found them when we came to power. To the contrary, statistics show that poverty levels have actually increased. I do not want to be malicious, but the fact is that Luapula is still wallowing in poverty.

Mr Chairperson, one of the reasons poverty levels have increased, as I indicated the other time, is the removal of subsidies on agriculture and fuel.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Ladies and gentlemen, this issue will haunt us. I have indicated that 70 per cent of the population in developing countries is rural based. Further, the income for that 70 per cent of the population comes from agriculture. Any responsible Government has a good policy on the 70 per cent of its rural citizens. When you remove subsidies in the manner that you did without any economic intervention put in place, you are leaving the people vulnerable. Today, as we sit in this House, most of the farmers are in the provincial centres collecting seed …

Dr Kaingu: Today.

Mr Mbulakulima: … and fertiliser. After all, you have also increased tax on airtime, meaning that they have to physically move in order to communicate. This has increased the poverty levels in the rural areas. The argument that the savings from the subsidies will be put in infrastructure development sounds very good but, I would like the hon. Ministers for the provinces to indicate, as they wind up the debate, what extraordinary infrastructure we are going to get this time around.

Sir, it is a known fact, my dear colleagues, that one of the best roads in the country is Tuta Road. It was constructed without having to remove any subsidies. I would like to indicate to this House, without shame, that the best bridge in Central Africa is Tuta Bridge.

Mr Mwanza: Correct.

Mr Mbulakulima: This bridge was made without having to remove subsidies.

Hon. Opposition Members: Correct.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, I would also like to indicate to this House that one of the best roads in Luapula Province is Samfya/Mansa. This road was built without having to remove subsidies. Another road, which is one of the best in Luapula Province, is Chembe/Mansa and this was constructed without having to remove subsidies.

Mr Nkombo: Even the Monze Road.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, when the MMD constructed the Mwanawasa or Chembe Bridge, it was constructed without having to remove subsidies. You have to convince me what extraordinary infrastructure you are going to put up with the removal of subsidies. I can pause for a minute and imagine that if the Tuta Road or Mwanawasa Bridge was constructed by this Government, they would have told the people of Luapula to remove their jackets and start dancing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame.

Mr Mbulakulima: They could have done that.

Mr Mwanza: Especially Mwila.

Mr Mbulakulima: They are good at propaganda. Ladies and gentlemen, be mindful that we are representing the people of Luapula.

Mr Chairperson, the President was in Luapula Province not long ago and he told us that, as Members of Parliament, we must be bold and take development to the people of Luapula. Let us not be shy to tell him that we are short of this or that as people of Luapula. I cry for my beloved province.

Mr Mwanza: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Therefore, someone cannot come here and tell me that the people of Luapula Province are now happier than they were before, and yet the poverty levels are increasing.

Mr Livune: Yama, cry a bit. Cry.

Dr Kaingu: Maawe!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mbulakulima: Ladies and gentlemen, this Government made a lot of promises. They must tell the people what changes they have brought to Luapula.

Sir, we once talked about the Kawambwa Tea Company. Where are we today with regard to the Kawambwa Tea Company? We also talked about Mansa Batteries. Where are we with regard to Mansa Batteries? We once talked about the Mununshi Banana Scheme. Where are we with regard to this company? Today, you stand here and talk about the projects in Milenge where a very good school was built and hospitals were built in Mwense and Samfya. The PF found all these projects when it came to power. However, there is nothing wrong with it completing them because that is a civil way of doing things. Our only complaint is that when these projects are being commissioned, there is no mention of the previous Government. Examples of projects where the MMd have not been mentioned during commissioning are the Mwanawasa Stadium, the new stadium in Ndola, the Kariba North Bank Extension Power Station and the Katima Mulilo Border Post in the Western Province. All these projects were started by the MMD. So, acknowledge that. Very soon, you will be commissioning the Lusaka National Heroes Stadium. There is nothing wrong with you completing these projects because this is a civilised way of doing things. So, please, acknowledge the people who initiated them.

Mr Chairperson, in Luapula Province, we are looking forward to the new projects, but these do not match with the 98 per cent votes that the PF got from Luapula and that you brag about. If you correlate with the development that Luapula is getting, you will find that the correlation is in the negative. Apo bakana ubunga tapaba nsoni. We should not be ashamed to speak when we are sharing mealie meal.

Mr Livune: Palibe nsoni.

Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, development in  Luapula should correlate with support from the Government. The people of Luapula rose in support for change and they did so for a purpose. This is because they wanted to have development. However, today, the rate at which this development is taking place in the province is too slow for one to stand up and say he/she is happy. Probably, the only good thing that has come to Luapula is the appointment of Hon. Harry Kalaba as Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. This young man is dynamic and very intelligent. I want him to provide the right leadership for Luapula.

Mr Chairperson, what legacy are we going to leave for the people of Luapula? If one talks about the Pedicle Road, even a Grade Four pupil in Luapula knows that, actually, that was started by the MMD. The equipment was mobilised. However, had it not been for your jealousy and interference, you would have been driving on that road by now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Sir, the Government has started working on the Kawambwa/Luwingu Road. It is the responsibility of every government across the globe to build schools and roads. To me, if I hear someone talking about constructing a road or school, it is the number of schools and the quality of schools that counts and that we should talk about.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Where the MMD built four schools, you should build eight more schools. Where the MMD constructed twenty roads, you should build forty more roads. Come on, gentlemen, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: … you can do it.

Mr Mwanza: Get annoyed.

Mr Mbulakulima: There is no government across the globe that does not do that. Let us raise the standards of Luapula. Luapula is ‘crying’ for development. How long are the people of Luapula going to wait? They invested in the PF as we have heard, but where are they? I can assure you that, today, you can count the developmental projects in Milenge off your fingers. There is one trades training school, a district hospital, a high school that you are boasting about and the road projects that were initiated by the MMD. If only you can do more than that, then Milenge would be a better place to live in.

Mr Livune interjected.

Mr Mbulakulima: We are talking about misplaced development. For example, the traffic lights, which were supposed to be put up at the junction of the Cathedral or the Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) and Shoprite in Mansa, were taken to Kapesha and you call that development.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Whenever you are patching up the Chembe Road, you say that you are creating jobs. That road was worked on by your colleagues. What are the new projects you have implemented? Why are you not talking about the Musonda Falls?

Mr Chairperson, we welcome the establishment of the Luapula University but, come 2014, all that you will do is lay a foundation stone and that will be it. In 2015, you will lay the foundation for the buildings. In 2016, a slab will be put up and then you will say that the project has started. That is political expedience.

Mr Muntanga: Political what?

Mr Mbulakulima: Expedience.

Sir, the other issue I wish to talk about relates to the Provincial PS. Hon. Minister the buck stops with you. All the development in the province converges in the PS’ office. Therefore, we need someone who is proactive in this office so that we see which direction he/she is taking the province. According to my records, unless I am mistaken, …

Mr Mwanza: No, you are not.

Mr Mbulakulima: … the PS has not visited Milenge District ever since he went to the province. How do you expect him to develop the province?

Mr Chairperson, I wrote to him on 25th September, 2013, as Member of Parliament, highlighting some of the development requirements in my constituency. There are fourteen constituencies and one person cannot manage to go round all of them. In my letter, I highlighted a lot of issues that needed his attention and he wrote back, saying:

“I write to acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 25th September, 2013, regarding the above subject. I wish to state that all the issues raised are covered in the national operations of the Government in line with the PF Manifesto and everything possible is being done to achieve the desired development.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mwanza: That is a nephew.

Mr Mbulakulima: If this letter came from the hon. Minister for the Province, I would not mind, but the PS cannot talk about the PF Manifesto. Is he a cadre? Is this the way we are going to do things, hon. Minister? I meant well when I brought to his attention the challenges that the people of Chembe and Milenge were facing such as the Bwinjimilonga Bridge which was worked on by his Government. A lot of money was spent on that bridge, but it was not completed. The rains are here now, machinery has been demobilised and he tells me that that is what the PF Manifesto is all about.

Mr Mwanza: The so-called.

Mr Mbulakulima: In my letter, I also mentioned the Mansa/Milambo Road, which was washed away two years ago, and he tells me that it will be worked on according to the PF Manifesto. Is this what the PF Manifesto is?

Hon. Opposition Members: Zero.

Mr Mbulakulima: This is unacceptable. We need people who are on top of things. The people of Milenge, Chembe and Mansa are watching. We need meaningful development. I do not want to be tribalistic, but we are capable of being bad. Just like the people of Namwala call themselves warriors, we are also warriors. We even throw blows. So, do not take us for a ride.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: We need meaningful development.

Mr Mwenya: Question!

Mr Mbulakulima: We need officials who are going to be on top of things. We do not care where they come from, but we demand that meaningful development is taken to our district. As I indicated earlier, today, the people of Milenge are in Mansa, and no one is there to help them. Why are they being discriminated against?

Mr Livune: It is because of the PS.

Mr Mbulakulima: Ba yama, that is why I am saying that we are in trouble unless we choose to change …

The Deputy Chairperson: May you, please, address the Chairperson.

Mr Mbulakulima: … for the better.

The Deputy Chairperson: We do not know what the phrase ba yama means. Does it mean meat?

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, as I was saying, we need development in Luapula. If you look at the Yellow Book, apart from Muchinga Province, the province with the lowest allocation is Luapula followed by the Western Province. The same problem continues and the poorest province always gets the lowest allocation. Check the Yellow Book and you will see what I am talking about. Today, some hon. Members of Parliament can stand up and say they are proud that Luapula is on the move.

Hon. MMD Member: Awe!

Mr Mbulakulima: I cry for my beloved province.

Hon. MMD Members: Maawe, maawe!

Mr Mbulakulima: I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chungu (Luanshya): Mr Chairperson, from the outset, I want to state that I am in support of the budget for the province. The people of the Copperbelt are very happy with the leadership of President Michael Chilufya Sata.

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. Backbenchers: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Sir, I do not know why some people easily forget the things that they say and do. When we complete projects that they started, they say we are just there to commission projects. When a man marries a woman and later divorces her on account of her being barren, and then another man marries the same woman, when the woman conceives and produces a child, will that man who married the woman claim to be the father of the child?

Hon. Government Members: No.

Mr Chungu: No. We are completing projects. Even in areas where there were no police stations, we have put up police stations, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: … because we are the Government of the day.

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, let me help the younger man to make his point clear. Is he in order to say that if a man divorces a woman, and another man marries that woman and produces a child after ninety days, then, that child belongs to the current husband? Is he in order to say that after divorcing a pregnant woman, he should just hit himself on the chest and say the child is mine without acknowledging that the woman was already pregnant at the time she was being divorced?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: It is difficult for the Chairperson to make a ruling on that one because facts differ from one situation to another. If a person is divorced whilst carrying somebody’s asset inside her, you may claim responsibility.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: However, if the woman is divorced with proof that there was nothing then, perhaps, the one taking over can claim responsibility. So, hon. Member, you may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Mr Chairperson, thank you. As the situation was, there was nothing.

Laughter

Mr Chungu: Mr Chairperson, I will start my debate by talking about the health sector. This Government, under the leadership of President Michael Chilufya Sata, is doing very well in the health sector on the Copperbelt. Now, we have contractors on site in Chililabombwe to put up a hospital where there has never been a Government hospital in existence since Independence. It has only happened under the leadership of President Sata because of his caring attitude and his passion for the people of Zambia.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Sir, the construction of a hospital in Kitwe’s Ndeke Township was started by the previous Government and was only built up to four courses. This Government moved in to complete that hospital because it is a caring Government. The hospital was commissioned just before the 2011 General Elections.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Chungu: Mr Chairperson, we were told in this House that there is an incomplete hospital in Lufwanyama that was started by the previous Government. We were also told that some police officers were living in that hospital building. The hospital has been completed and it will be commissioned. People want to say we are just commissioning projects. Yes, we have to complete them because we are doing it on behalf of the Zambians. Every Government that comes into power does not choose where to take development. It has to take development to all the parts of the country because it represents the people. We got votes from all over the country, including parts of the country where we do not have representation. So, we are committed to taking development to the whole country.

Mr Chairperson, I stand here as a very proud hon. Member of Parliament for Luanshya. Luanshya is a place where you never hear of patients being carried on wheelbarrows. That will never happen. In my constituency, there are five ambulances for all the health centres. These were bought using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). In Roan Parliamentary Constituency, we have five ambulances for all the health centres because we have a passion for the people and we share the vision that the President has for this country. In Luanshya, we are rehabilitating hospitals. Thomson Hospital was shunned by everyone. I went to the business community and, together, we have given that hospital a facelift. One hundred per cent rehabilitation works have been carried out because of the vision that we share with the President. We believe in what he believes in and, so, we are moving on the same path of developing this country.

Mr Chairperson, the construction of roads such as the Ndola/Kitwe and Kitwe/Chingola will definitely reduce the congestion on our roads as well as the road carnage that is claiming many lives. The wear and tear of vehicles and maintenance costs for vehicles are also being reduced. This is because there is a caring Government in place.

Sir, there are areas that need attention on the Copperbelt. For example, the Masangano/Mokola Road, which was worked on in 2004, had already developed potholes at the time it was being commissioned. We have witnessed a lot of accidents on that road. Nearly every week, there is an accident on that road. So, I am urging the hon. Minister to quickly look at that road before it claims more lives. There is also the Mufulira/Ndola Road. From the time this road was built by the UNIP Government, it has never been attended to, not even in the last twenty years of the previous Government. However, the President made a pronouncement that it will now be a dual carriageway. It will be attended to because it is in our plans.

Sir, when President Sata was in the Opposition for ten years, he had plans. That is why the Government is moving this country forward.

The other road that I have a problem with is the Lwansobe/Mpongwe Road. The road was worked on a few years ago, but it already has potholes. The people that are charged with the responsibility of maintaining our roads are failing us. Potholes start as small as 10 cm in diameter. If they are not mended, we end up spending huge sums of money on rehabilitating the roads. Those responsible for road maintenance drive on these roads and see the potholes grow. The hon. Minister should ask them to pull up their socks before we start losing lives on that road.

Mr Chairperson, the RRU has concentrated on the rural part of the Copperbelt. We have peri-urban areas in the province that need the services of this unit. Kafubu Farming Block, Chifulube, Chilabula, Maposa and Mpata Hills are all farming areas where we get our food from, but they have been neglected.

Sir, with these few remarks, I am in support of the budget for the Copperbelt Province and I thank you.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Chairperson, thank you for the opportunity to deliver my maiden speech in which I shall share with the House and nation the collective ambitions for the people of Mansa Central Constituency in particular and Luapula and Zambia in general.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: Mr Chairperson, allow me to join His Honour the Vice-President in expressing my heartfelt condolences to the people of South Africa on the passing on of a respected statesman, Dr Nelson Mandela. May I also pass my condolences to the Chikusu family on the death of Hon. Dr Patrick Chikusu. May his soul rest in peace.

Mr Chairperson, I want to pay tribute to the former Member of Parliament for Mansa Central, the late Hon. Kennedy Sakeni, for the precedent he set of self-sacrifice for the cause of the people and the Government. He planted the seed and I will continue with the existing party structures to water and tender the seed until our people harvest the desires of their dreams.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: Firstly, my sincere gratitude go to the President of the PF and Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, for the honour and privilege to contest the Mansa Central Seat on the PF ticket. On behalf of the electorate, the people of Luapula, and on my behalf, I am grateful to the President for the confidence he has in me to serve the nation as hon. Deputy Minister of Health. This is a call to national duty to which I pledge my honour, loyalty and dedication.

To my wife, Mutinta, family and friends who have experienced many deprivations …

Hon. UPND Members: Mulamu.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: … that only those that have walked this long, winding and sometimes lonely path know, I want to appreciate their sacrifice and support during this period. Of special note is my campaign team under the guidance and watchful eye of Mr Chipolo Mwale, member of the Central Committee (MCC) of the PF in Luapula, the amazingly committed and hardworking campaign manager, Hon. Nicholas Chilangwa, …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Dr Chilufya: … working closely with Hon. Brig-Gen. Kapaya, the party leadership in the province and all the hon. Members of Parliament from the Ruling Party. May I recognise the support from Hon. Prof. Nkandu Luo, Hon. Dr John Phiri and Hon. Alexander Chikwanda.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: Mr Chairperson, the people of Mansa Central Constituency voted overwhelmingly for me and the PF in a peaceful manner. The one-sided victory is a strong message of endorsement of the development agenda that the PF Government stands for. I must commend the people for the peaceful campaigns and elections. They have set a precedent that competition for elective office is not a password to violence, hatred and divisive tendencies. We can co-exist with diverse political ideologies.

Sir, I would like to invite the people of Mansa Central Constituency from both sides of the political divide to move on, now that the elections are over. It is now time for all the stakeholders in Mansa Central to focus on our common dream of a developed Mansa Central and Zambia as a whole where all children access basic education; the girl child is protected from early marriage and assured of attaining quality education; where quality health services are assured and brought as close to the family as possible; where all women are assured of delivering a child without dying; where no child dies from vaccine-preventable illnesses; where all have access to clean and safe water; where the vast land and water resources are translated into wealth through infrastructure development, agriculture and tourism; and where all our citizens have opportunities for decent jobs.

Sir, in the local dialect, Mansa means a crossroad or place of intersection. It is at the junction of four main link roads, namely Kashikishi/Mansa, Mufulira/Chembe/Mansa, Serenje/Samfya/Mansa and Kasama/Luwingu/Mansa. This unique position offers rare opportunities if transit services like accommodation, tourism programmes and support services are enhanced.

Through the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, significant progress has been recorded on these main arteries to my constituency. Once the Pedicle Road has been completed, Mansa will be three hours away from Lusaka and the pristine and spectacular beaches of Samfya will be another one hour away. We envisage a surge in traffic and have started preparing our people to leverage these massive opportunities for development and job creation. Under the Pave Zambia 2,000 km Road Programme, 30 km of our township roads will be paved and feeder roads and bridges to rural communities and farm land will be constructed.

Mr Chairperson, the Vision of the National Health Policy is, “a nation of healthy and productive people.” In executing the National Health Policy, which was launched yesterday by the Minister of Health, Hon. Dr Joseph Kasonde, we will be guided by the following key principles:

(a) equity of access;

(b) primary health care approach;

(c) affordability;

(d) cost effectiveness;

(e) leadership;

(f) transparency and accountability;

(g) decentralisation;

(h) partnerships;

(i) gender sensitivity;

(j) quality assurance and control; and

(k) global health.

Sir, to attain our collective mission to produce health as a commodity available to all Zambian citizens, our roadmap will address the key social determinants of health. These include education, water and sanitation, health care services, nutrition, household income and housing. This shall entail collaboration with other ministries. For instance, collaboration with the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to ensure universal access to child education and the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to ensure access to clean and safe drinking water; the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health to ensure improved access to primary health care services; the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to improve food production and nutrition; and collaboration with the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to improve household income.

Mr Chairperson, it is when our people are healthy that their aggregate efforts will be directed towards developmental priorities. In recognition of the need to move towards universal health coverage and develop a sound, sustainable and pro-poor health-care financing strategy, the Government intends to establish a National Social Health Insurance Scheme that will cover all citizens in a phased approach.

In our quest to increase access to primary health care services, we shall construct 650 health posts and thirty-six district hospitals countrywide. We have also embarked on the mordenisation of existing tertiary institutions and district hospitals such as the  University Teaching Hospital (UTH), Kitwe Central Hospital (KCH), Ndola Central Hospital (NCH) and Livingstone General Hospital (LGH). We are addressing infrastructure, procuring diagnostic equipment and laundry, and kitchen equipment.

Sir, we shall ensure the most efficient delivery of health services in clean environments by trained, caring and competent health personnel. Further, we shall strengthen health systems to ensure availability of drugs and efficient technical support for our gallant health workers at the front line. To achieve these milestones will require political will and hard work. We have both in abundance in this Government.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, we know the challenges that we face in the health sector. They are not easy, but are surmountable, and yet I carry the hopes and dreams not only of the people of Mansa Central Constituency, but also of the country on account of my privileged position as Hon. Deputy Minister of Health.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: The challenges may be daunting, but I am urged on by the perseverance of a young man who rides a bicycle 60 km across valley, mountain and forest looking for the nearest clinic. He is carrying his young near-term wife. It is the tenacity of this young woman who endures that bumpy ride in the hope of giving life to a baby only to die still hoping up to her last moment.

I am encouraged and at the same time challenged by the courage of a six-year old that walks 10 km to and from school in the biting cold, and with no shoes or warm clothes on to protect his innocence and, after walking for seven years everyday, only to be rejected by a system that has inadequate places in secondary school and others of his kind.

Mr Chairperson, we must continue hoping for a better day like the father of six children I meet everyday who lost his job, but has a family to feed, school fees to pay and medical fees to meet. His eyes have lost the dignity and respect of a father. He is unable to face his wife and his children. He walks 10 km to the nearest polling station to vote for me and for many of us here, hoping that, one day, he will return home with a job like all other fathers must. As long as such brothers and sisters live with us and have not lost hope, we must not give up. We must not let them down.

Mr Chairperson, to achieve the dream requires political will and hard work. In this Government of His Excellency, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, …
 
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: … we have both in abundance.

Hon. Government Members: Elyo watampa ukulanda nomba. Bwekeshapo apopene.

Dr Chilufya: As I support the budget for Luapula. This is the message I bring to this House on behalf of the electorate in Mansa and Luapula in its entirety.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you. {mospagebreak}

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you and stand to support the Vote for the Southern Province.

Sir, I had problems deciding where to start my debate on this Vote from. Some people were saying that the Southern Province is given preferential treatment because of the K100,000,000 allocation. Others called the province a Bantustan, but after making an assessment, I realised that what Hon. Mwiimbu said was actually becoming true. However, I thought that we should not worry because if you call another province by that name, which means homeland, it means that it is about to get the status of self-rule. So, I was thinking that the federal system is coming back so that the Southern Province can have self-rule.

Mr Chairperson, the name Bantustan was actually given to us by a tabloid which is now a friend of the Government …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

We have ruled on the issue of Bantustans and I hope that you will not have more to say on that matter. If you have, try to wind it up and move on to another point.
  
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I thank you and will wind up because the question of segregation stands. We were told that the Southern Province has been given K100 million. Yes, it is true, but I looked at the figures and found that 80 per cent of that is for emoluments. We are talking about development which we still need. When Hon. Namugala mentioned this, I thought, “What is this now?” However, when she complained about the problems of uneven distribution of resources in her district, I realised that this uneven distribution is everywhere. I think that we have no problem with her contribution.

Mr Chairperson, I do not want the Southern Province to go down in history as a province where money for the Choma/Namwala Road was allocated several times, but the road was never developed. I want to pay tribute to the late President F. J. T. Chiluba who actually vowed that if it meant him working on one metre of the road, he would do just that and he actually started the project and eventually tarred the road up to 80 km from Namwala. The late President Mwanawasa, SC., continued from where President Chiluba left and President Banda went on to complete the road.

Mr Chairperson, we do not want development for an area to be halted because you think it is already developed. The Southern Province has people of diverse ethnicity. If you go to Mazabuka for instance, you will find people who do not speak the local language.

Mr Nkombo: Eeh, kamwamba.

Mr Muntanga: We do not mind that. We have had people come to the Southern Province as briefcase business people. Now, they own trucks and have become rich. We are very accommodating. Those who complain about us do not want to build even a small house in their areas of origin. They all want to develop Lusaka and build in Lusaka and then complain about lack of development in their areas. Take development to your areas. Build houses in your areas. Put up service stations in your areas and employ people. In the Southern Province, we have such developments. Therefore, we have people coming from all over the country to work there. Three districts have been established in the province. The people working in the new districts are not indigenous to the Southern Province, but we do not mind about that.

Mr Chairperson, I want to say that I do not mind …

Mr Nkombo: I mind.

Mr Muntanga: … about the development that goes on elsewhere because they also need the development. I know that because I have been all over the country. We need the two universities that are going to be put up in the province because the people that will be taken there will come from all over the country.

Mr Ng’onga: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to rise on a procedural point of order. Is the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, Hon. Nkombo, in order to sit very close to the uncle who is debating and slowly feeding into the uncle’s debate, thereby disturbing those of us who are listening to the debate?

The Deputy Chairperson: The Chairperson has observed that they were consulting, which is allowed.

Mr Muntanga may continue.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that in the Southern Province and Choma in particular, we are only building one Government school, Batoka, which is not complete. There was no Government school in Batoka. We are grateful to the various missionaries that built schools in the province. We had no university, but we now have the Adventist University that was also built by the missionaries.

Mr Mushanga: Rusangu University.

Mr Muntanga: We do not complain. St Canicius College, which is a missionary school, trained a lot of people and was made a national school where a certain percentage of people who were admitted there came from all over the country.

Mr Nkombo: Even now.

Mr Muntanga: There are so many people …

Interjection

Mr Muntanga: That is not a Government school but a mission school. We allowed that. However, we think that we do not deserve the segregation. Several people have benefitted from this school. What you have done is good, but what we also want the road between Kafue and Mazabuka to be worked on. That road is in a bad state.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear! 

Mr Muntanga: Sir, we know that the Government has worked on the road from Chirundu to Lusaka, but Chirundu District has been moved from the Southern Province to Lusaka Province. You should work on the road to Livingstone because that is an international route. We are grateful to the previous Government that worked on the road from Monze to Livingstone. However, we want the stretch of the road from Mazabuka to Kafue to be worked on because it is bad. One of your youth chairpersons called Msoni died on that road after hitting into a pothole.

Mr Chairperson, the three new districts need administrative structures. Schools should be built. We are fortunate that the hon. Minister for Southern Province participated in the development of the Southern Province because he was passionate about the province. He owned Choma Hotel, Kalundu Motel, Kabebya Farm and Kabebya Motors. He was on a quest to develop the Southern Province and now he is an hon. Minister. I agree that he does consult us. He talks to us. We want to develop the province. Choma is now the capital of the Southern Province. There are two towns that were turned into provincial capitals recently. One already has infrastructure and the people are happy. Do not make us think that you are segregative by not building infrastructure in Choma as well. Build infrastructure in the capital of the Southern Province, which is Choma. You are building airstrips in other areas, but we also need an airstrip. We need a ring road because the main road is becoming dangerous due to congestion. When Choma was named the capital of Southern Province, there was a sudden influx of people. We want development now because of the influx of people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, when we tell you that we need development, we are not saying that we do not want you to have development wherever you come from. Please, just talk about what you need in your province and do not begin to point fingers at us like a child who wants something just because he/she has seen it with another child. Talk about your province. If someone is going to talk about Zambia negatively when I am outside Zambia, I will feel provoked because I stand for Zambia. If I am in Zambia, and you want to talk negatively about the Southern Province, …

Mr Nkombo: Now you are talking.

Mr Muntanga: … I will feel insulted. If I am in the Southern Province, and you insult the people of Kalomo, I will feel offended. That is my position. You must have a base where you feel you are part of the people. That is why, sometimes, I do not mind being referred to as a member of a Bantustan. Some people go to their homes and fail to be accepted there. You must have a base.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, we need development in the Southern Province. What we are asking for should be given to us.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised on the uncle.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, I stand on a very serious point of order.

Mr Chairperson, the issue of prophets not being accepted in their own land started in biblical times. Even Jesus Christ was not accepted in Nazareth.

Is Hon. Muntanga in order to insinuate that there are hon. Members somewhere who are not accepted in their home areas? Is he in order, Sir?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Muntanga, you may continue.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Chairperson, when we say that we need the Bottom Road, it is because we were promised that the road would be tarred. Hon. Minister, do not relent. The contractor should not just grade that road. We need a tarred road.

Mr Nkombo: Bituminous standard.

Mr Muntanga: It must be of bituminous standard. The Bottom Road is from Siavonga via the valley to Zimba. That is what we have been talking about.

Mr Nkombo: Through Mapatizya.

Mr Muntanga: Yes, it also passes through Mapatizya.

Mr Chairperson, we need that road because we had an agreement with the Colonial Government. People suffered and others were killed over that area. Our relatives died there. We will not stop talking about this road regardless of who is in the Government. When we talk about the Monze/Niko Road, we mean what we say. Mr Nkumbula talked about it and we will continue talking about it. The hon. Minister knows all these roads because he has walked the length and breadth of the Southern Province. We also need a road in Pemba. Every road in the Southern Province should be worked on. There is Habanyuka Road …

Mr Nkombo: Moya Road.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, when I say, “Habanyuka Road,” the hon. Minister knows what I am talking about.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

What are you talking about?

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, it is in an area called Habanyuka.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, 12 km of the Chikankata Road is not tarred. Let us join the tarmac …

Hon. Government Members: From where?

Mr Muntanga: From the main road to Chikankata.

Mr Chairperson, when the late Mr Benny Mwiinga was in the Government, the road was tarred halfway from Chikankata to the main road. Please, complete that road. We have many roads that need tarring. Please, let us use the RRU. The road from Monze to Chivuna needs to be worked on. When I talk about the Siaponde Road, the hon. Minister knows what I am talking about. That is the Bottom Road.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about Kazungula. When you build the bridge in Kazungula, please, employ the local people. We need that bridge, but we want the local people to benefit as well. We have many roads that I can talk about. For example, there is the Kalomo/Mapatizya Road and Kalomo/Dundumwezi Road to Chikanta. We will not relent until all the roads have been repaired. The Simonga/Makunka Road needs to be worked on too.

Mr Chairperson, one time, we had to drive on the railway line because we could not drive on that road. We need to develop that road and it should go through Matanki. Fortunately, our hon. Minister knows the roads that I am talking about. We are farmers in the Southern Province. We do not want things to be delayed unless you are aiming at impoverishing us. All these roads in the areas that I have mentioned should be repaired because that is where the farmers are. The maize is already knee high.

Mr Nkombo: ‘Cantermania’.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, last night, there was a ‘cantermania’ storm. So, if you can develop the feeder roads, we will keep quiet ...

Mr Nkombo: No way.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … but, if you do not, I am afraid, we will not stop talking. We will continue talking about the roads. You should complete working on those roads that you started working on in Livingstone.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Livingstone has become a ghost town.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, Livingstone has become a ghost town because you moved some people to Choma, and now the remaining people in Livingstone are still planning what to do with the houses that have been left vacant. If it was possible to move buildings to the Northern Circuit, we would have moved them. In fact, we want you to develop the Northern Circuit so that when people land at the Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula Airport in Livingstone, they can connect to the Northern Circuit. We do not want them to continue coming to the Victoria Falls only. They can also go elsewhere. We also want development to go elsewhere. However, when you talk about development in your area, do not be jealous of the Southern Province at the same time. That is retrogressive. In any case, development goes with what you are worth as an area.

Mr Nkombo: Ehe, meenda atobela mumufolo.

Mr Muntanga: Literary translated, this means water flows where the river goes.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Muntanga: You have nothing. Just accept that. That is why, even at Independence, we contributed cattle for the celebrations. That was our cattle.

Mr Nkombo: Samulya Moomba.

Mr Muntanga: Some of you contributed nothing towards the Independence Celebrations. So, do not insult us.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, you can call us names, but you should also agree to have a federal system of governance.

Mr Nkombo: Tukabone.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, why should the Kafue/Mazabuka Road not be repaired when people are dying on it? Why should it be so? However, someone says that the only good people are those that meet at the livestock centre. We are going to stop calling some people “Mwansa” and call them “Mwanga” because they behave like us.

Mr Chairperson, I support this Vote as it is. We will employ all Zambians. Come to the Southern Province and you will get your money.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I am grateful and I thank you.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Chairperson, I thank you …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)
__________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

__________

The House adjourned at 1257 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 10th December, 2013.