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Debates- Thursday, 13th December, 2013
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY
Friday, 13th December, 2013
The House met at 0900 hours
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
_______
HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME
Mr Speaker: It is now time for His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. To ensure that we confine ourselves to the thirty minutes allotted to this segment, I will not allow any points of order.
Hon. Member for Mwandi, you may ask your question.
Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, the Republican President has made several pronouncements, one of them being that there is no need for a new Constitution and that all that is needed to be done is amend the current one.
Your Honour the Voice-President, do you take the Republican President’s pronouncement seriously?
The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I hate to bore the House and the public but, this week, during my absence, the hon. Minister of Justice gave a statement on precisely this subject. This issue came up and was dealt with. With your indulgence, I will refer the hon. Member to the verbatim record.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, it is reported that the price of mealie-meal has increased in Lusaka, on the Copperbelt and along the border areas. The reason that the millers are giving is that they are buying maize at very high costs from private entities.
I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President when the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) will offload maize to cushion the mealie-meal price which has sky rocketed.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, as far as I am aware, the precise date and price at which the FRA will be offloading the maize have not been agreed upon. Needless to say, I have been away for several days.
Sir, the price has gone up to the economic levels because there is no Government subsidy coming into the market at this time. However, we are keeping an eye on it. You will note, if you have read stories in the papers about it, that the price is particularly higher around the border areas, which is an indication of the fundamental situation we find ourselves in of being surrounded by shortages. We have to be careful not to bring the price further down because the maize will disappear across the border and then people will be crying about something else.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, it is now six months since the Government removed subsidies on fuel and maize. I would like to know how much savings have been made from this action.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker that involves calculations, that is, getting hold of figures and making estimates of the cost-benefit analysis and so on and so forth. I hope that the hon. Member will send me a note or produce a written question in the next Sitting of Parliament so that we can actually look at the savings in terms of figures.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, I have belaboured the issue of the Katunda/ Lukulu/Mumbeji Road.
Laughter
Mr Mutelo: The Lukulu/Mbanga/Limulunga Road can be a good alternative to connecting Lukulu to Mongu. What is the position over the Lukulu/Mbanga/Limulunga Road?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I enjoy myself in this House, but I always approach the end of a sitting with a sad heart. However, the compensation …
Laughter
The Vice-President: … for the next few weeks is that I will not be asked that question or any version of it ...
Laughter
The Vice-President: … unless, of course, the hon. Questioner does what I constantly request him to do, which is write me a request so that this issue is sorted out once and for all.
Nonetheless, there are the Link Zambia 8,000 km and Pave Zambia 2,000 km road projects that the hon. Member can consult and get somewhere towards the bottom of this issue.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, the mobile phone service providers are providing very poor quality service to mobile phone users and the Zambia Information and Communication Technology Authority (ZICTA) has admitted to this effect. What is the Government, through ZICTA, doing to protect the consumer against the shoddy services by the service providers on the market?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker that matter is under active consideration by ZICTA in conjunction with the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. We expect that the next time we meet in this House, we will have something more positive and specific to say. However, I agree and sympathise with the hon. Questioner because there is nothing as annoying as having to shout down a telephone and not get any information back.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, when we were in the Opposition, we complained that the former President, Mr Rupiah Banda, travelled a lot, resulting in the Government spending a lot of money on his travels. Can His Honour the Vice-President inform this House and the nation how the President has fared in terms of travelling outside the country.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I know, from my own tired bones, that our President does not travel as much as some Presidents travelled in the past. I have just returned from Johannesburg via Nairobi for two State assignments which he delegated to me. If I travel in his place, it is a lot cheaper than if he travels with his larger entourage and so on and so forth. I would say, we have a President who prefers being in Zambia to being anywhere else.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the people of the Eastern Province have received less than half of the required agricultural inputs. May His Honour the Vice-President assure the people of the Eastern Province whether they will receive the inputs in full before the end of this year.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock was up on his feet yesterday in this House on this same subject, explaining the situation carefully as I understand it. There is nothing I can add. If the question is about rain, I cannot add anything except to suggest you go to another house like the Anglican Cathedral to discuss with the authorities there. As for the fertiliser and seed situation, I really do not have the details at hand.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, at the funeral of late Dr Mandela in South Africa on Tuesday, Zambia was significantly embarrassed because there was no presence of the leadership from the PF.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Hon. Government Members: Question.
Mr Mwanza: Considering that Dr Mandela made the first trip to Zambia immediately after his release from prison, was the Government not equally embarrassed?
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it is true that the first visit by Dr Nelson Mandela outside of South Africa when he was released from captivity was to Lusaka. Both the South Africans and us remember that very well. That is the reason I was in Johannesburg for the memorial service.
I was with Dr Kenneth Kaunda who was the President of Zambia at the time Dr Nelson was released from prison. Dr Nelson Mandela thanked him in 1990 in so many words that, if Zambia had not taken the action she took, South Africa would not be where it was then. That is the reason I travelled with Dr Kenneth Kaunda. Moving with Dr Kenneth Kaunda through the stadium or Johannesburg was virtually impossible because people were stopping at every inch or metre, asking for a photograph of him and telling him how much they appreciated him. I was there representing Zambia.
Mr Kambwili: Which channel was he watching?
The Vice-President: Which channel was the hon. Questioner watching? Supersport did not cover the event.
I thank you, Sir.
Laughter
Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, may His Honour the Vice-President give his reflection on the performance of the PF Government in 2013 …
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Mushanga: … now that the year is coming to a close in two weeks’ time.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the question demands a very comprehensive answer. I would say the PF has fulfilled many of the promises it made and has continued to fulfil some, which is even more important. People have been complaining that we told stories on how we would lower taxes. This House, with the PF Executive, has lowered taxes on workers considerably. We will put more money in their pockets. This, we have done by significantly increasing the minimum wages and Government workers’ wage scales.
Hon. Government Members: Yes.
The Vice-President: I do not know why anyone is going round to the Forum for Democratic Process (FODEP) to complain about this.
Mr Kambwili: FODEP.
Laughter
The Vice-President: what they are saying is not the case. Numbers will speak for themselves.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, issues to do with mealie-meal are serious in this country. I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President when the Government is going to deliver maize to farmers so that they can plant and apply fertiliser and not deliver fertiliser first.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, again, I understand this issue was dealt with yesterday. A logistical question like: On which day will you deliver the seed …
Mr Kambwili: or how.
The Vice-President: … to Muchinga Constituency, is very complicated because the constituency is not in Muchinga Province, but in Central Province. I cannot answer that question because I do not have a huge voluminous archive here which I can consult. I am sure we are doing our best as the Government.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President when the Government will let the nation know how much money was raised from the maize exports to Malawi, Zimbabwe and other countries.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I will ask the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock to issue a statement on that issue. Unfortunately, he will not be able to do so in this House in the near future, but I will ask him to issue a press release so that we can look at the numbers and satisfy ourselves or not satisfy ourselves as to what happened.
I thank you Sir.
Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I would like to find from His Honour the Vice-President if the Government will continue to deliver relief maize to the affected areas until harvest time.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, off course we will. That is exactly what the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) is there for. The Food Relief Policy also entails taking care of the so-called hunger period from January to about April when the maize is ready for consumption.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, my question is a follow up to Hon. Chishimba’s question as regards mealie-meal. The bulk of the maize was bought by the private sector. The private millers and FRA bought about 500,000 metric tonnes for the strategic reserves. May I know what the Government is doing to ensure that the private sector does not hoard the maize unnecessarily to create an artificial shortage which will eventually lead to an increase in the price of mealie-meal.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that this business of the State and the private sector trying to get along with each other in the same industry is always a balancing act. It is always a matter of the Government looking at what the private sector is doing first if it wants to intervene and being careful not to destroy the private sector by undermining it heavily on the one hand or disadvantage the consumers by allowing the private sector to operate monopolistically or in a cartel fashion on the other hand.
It is a matter not just for the Government, but the Consumer Protection and Competition Commission also needs to get involved because there is too much conspiracy that goes on between the private sector players in several sectors in Zambia.
Sir, we have to handle this matter cautiously. We cannot bring the price crashing down or all the maize will disappear across the borders like I said just a few minutes ago. At the same time, the Treasury will be seriously disadvantaged but we do not want the price to be too high. You will have to leave it to us to do the balancing calculations.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the Government has declared the International Labour Organisation (ILO) irrelevant to the current situation in Zambia where unemployment is at its highest. Could His Honour the Vice-President inform this House and the nation about what it expects ILO to do as regards unemployment in Zambia.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, yesterday, ILO explained its position. Personally, I have nothing against telling aid agencies to do more and give us more help, especially international aid agencies such as the United Nations (UN) agencies like ILO. They should not only come here for ceremonial purposes. We need to get more action from them because we pay for their existence. So, they must make themselves relevant. That is what ILO was talking about.
Sir, if you read today’s newspaper, the ILO representative is saying we need to set up programmes that will employ youths. Why should we not be a bit more assertive when we are dealing with people who have come to help us? Are we supposed to fall on our knees and let them say whatever they want?
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mulomba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has failed to deliver in the agriculture sector from the time it came to power, as evidenced by the poor payments to farmers and late delivery of inputs. May I find out from His Honour the Vice-President what long-term measures the Government has put in place to ensure that this sector is well managed in future?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have been in this House for twelve years and three months now. From the time I was elected Member of Parliament for Mpika, which is sometimes wrongly called Mpika Central, to the time I was elected Member of Parliament for Lusaka Central in 2006, there has never been a year in which the left side of the House has not made allegations and noise about the late payments to farmers, late delivery of fertiliser and late delivery of rain.
Laughter
The Vice-President: Sir, I have listened to these complaints for twelve-and-half years.
Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock has made statement after statement in this House, but the hon. Members will insist that they have not made enough political capital and want him to come back. So, I will bring him back.
I thank you, Sir.
Laughter
Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Prof. Lungwangwa: … His Honour the Vice-President assured the nation that the country’s Foreign Policy will be availed soon. How far has the Government gone with this matter?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the Draft Policy is ready and the matter comes to the Cabinet probably next month in January. It will be made a subject of publication of one sort or another and brought to this House, as a statement, and then the necessary legislation will be there as well.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, it is clear that His Honour the Vice-President’s Government has failed the farmers of this country, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Pande: … particularly regarding the distribution of inputs. As a result, indications are that we are likely to have a very low yield in the coming year that will further result in mealie-meal prices skyrocketeting. Can he apologise to the Zambians, in advance, for this shoddy performance.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Order!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Questioner might care to apologise to the Zambian people for the repetitiveness of his question. Apart from the late onset of rains, there is no indication that this year is going to be worse than any other year in terms of production. In fact, one quite interesting feature of this year’s farming season is that the commercial sector has come back into the maize industry. They had stopped growing maize because of the heavy subsidies and price control by the FRA.
Sir, when we came to power, hon. Members will remember that the FRA was holding on to nearly 2 million tonnes of maize and could not give it away fast enough. The commercial and large corporate farmers stayed out. This year, they have come back in again because they have seen that we are serious about the removal of subsidies, letting their efficiency show and export to all our neighbours and so on and so forth.
So, I think the hon. Member is living in another year or, maybe, another planet because the maize industry is progressing as best as can be expected.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, it would appear that the violence in the PF has continued. This week, we witnessed the hacking of one PF official in Matero Constituency …
Mr Sampa: Question!
Mr Mwiimbu: … and the PF cadres have continued arming themselves, …
Hon. Government Members: Question.
Mr Mwiimbu: … to the extent that families of PF officials are now living in fear. What measures are you putting in place to ensure that citizens are safe from these hooligans who are terrorising the people of Lusaka?
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if I got the hon. Questioner right, he has identified the party that is carrying out all these atrocities as the PF. Is that correct?
Mr Mwiimbu: Yes.
The Vice-President: He has not mistakenly said the PF instead of the United Party for National Development (UPND) or something like that.
Laughter
The Vice-President: I am not aware of any detail of the situation. I have said before, in this House, that there are some rowdy cadres and there are some people taking advantage of this rowdiness. I have been away to Johannesburg and Nairobi for the last four days, but the impression that I get is that things are settling down nicely. In specific areas, the hon. Members of Parliament, like Hon. Sampa, are doing a good job. You can speak to him later and get the answers to your questions.
I thank you, Sir.
Laughter
Mr W. Banda (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, may I find out from His Honour the Vice-President what the actual position of the Government is on companies that are selling second-hand vehicles to the Zambian people.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there is no position. They are allowed to sell second-hand vehicles as long as it is subject to the various traffic and trading regulations, and income tax provisions subject to import duties. If the hon. Member has any suggestions on how we might change that, then, let him submit them.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank His Honour the Vice-President for the relief maize he gave some areas of the Luano Valley, namely Mboloma, Mbosha and Chembe. However, the relief maize was most needed in the Chimika Area where we had the problem of the Mailoni brothers. May I know when you are taking relief maize to Chimika.
Hon. Government Member: That is a good question.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, to be doubly sure, I hope the hon. Questioner will come to my office at tea break where we will discuss the details with the DMMU. However, things are certainly returning to normal in the areas that were affected by the Mailoni brothers. People in that area really believe that the Mailoni brothers turned into trees when they were killed and will come back to life again.
Laughter
The Vice-President: If I were the hon. Questioner, I would worry, but I would still come and get the i’s dotted and t’s crossed.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Opposition Members of Parliament are losing their seats due to alleged corruption during the 2011 Elections. May I find out from His Honour the Vice-President what he has to say about the development that is taken to constituencies during by-elections. Graders and caterpillars are seen during by-elections in areas where they would not ordinarily be seen.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we do not do that.
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
Laughter
Mr Kalaba: Those are MMD tactics.
The Vice-President: Those are tactics we were used to during the MMD era.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: We left those tactics behind when we came this side.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: They are still MMD tactics except that it does not have the money and power to use them.
Laughter
The Vice-President: Sir, I welcome the question from the hon. UPND Member and would advise him not to adopt those tactics. It is not helpful.
I thank you, Sir.
Laughter
Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, yesterday, a report over the misuse of Constituency Development Funds (CDF) in Mwansabombwe and Pambashe parliamentary constituencies was tabled before this House. The Civil Society and the Church have since called for the resignation of the affected hon. Members of Parliament. What is the Government’s position on this matter?
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the specific instances that the hon. Member is asking about are under investigation. If she is not satisfied with that assurance, I would strongly recommend that she goes to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), put her oar into the paddling and make sure that the issue is taken up. We are not in favour of hiding anything. The sooner these matters are brought to light and stopped, the happier we will be.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, earlier in the week, the nation had a sigh of relief when the hon. Minister of Justice said that we misunderstood the President when he said the Constitution only needed amendment. Recently, the President was in Siavonga where he commissioned the expanded Kariba North Bank Power Station and we were happy about that. However, whilst there, he mentioned that he had gone to China to lobby for that project, and yet those of us who live in Siavonga know that the project started long before he came on the scene. I would like to know if we, again, misunderstood him so that we know the correct position.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if you are particularly prone to misunderstanding what our President says, then, I am afraid, you will constantly suffer from that kind of thing.
Laughter
The Vice-President: Sir, the President is obviously referring to the time he was in China and this is one of the projects which he discussed. Whether he discussed details or broad principles, we do not know because we do not have information about what question is going to be asked. However, do not misunderstand our President, listen carefully and you will be much happier and sleep much better.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
________
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
CROSSING POINT AT NDOKA IN KALABO
221. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication what measures the Government had taken to protect the crossing point at Ndoka in Kalabo Central Parliamentary Constituency from being washed away during the 2013/2014 rainy season.
The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr M. H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the Government is already aware of the poor state of the crossing point at Ndoka and has sent engineers to assess its condition and what can be done immediately to protect it. This crossing point has been in a poor state from 2007 and has been deteriorating since. However, the Government has planned to provide new culverts at this location in 2014 using the emergency funds in the 2014 Road Sector Annual Work Plan.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, today is 13th December, 2013, and the rains are quite heavy in Kalabo. The Government knows very well that this crossing point is as old as Zambia. Is this the final visit by the engineers to Ndoka? Will Ndoka Bridge be worked on?
Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I thought the hon. Member would appreciate this Government, which has been in power for a short period, and has shown commitment to solving this old problem. The hon. Member should also know that this is not the only crossing point that needs attention. I have stated that this working Government has already sent engineers to go and look at the crossing point. In fact, we knew about the problem before we received this question. So, we are ahead of the hon. Member.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
DISTRICT YOUTH NETWORKS
222. Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge) asked the Minister of Youth and Sport:
(a) whether the Government had any plans to commence funding District Youth Networks to meet operational costs. If so, when the exercise would commence; and
(b) if there are no such plans, why.
The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Mulenga): Mr Speaker, you may wish to know that the Government does not have any plans of funding District Youth Networks because the Government is only able to provide funding in the form of grants to statutory bodies that are established by an Act of Parliament such as the National Youth Development Council (NYDC), Girl Guides Association and others. However, the Government has been working closely with the youth networks at all levels by supporting some of their activities.
Sir, the Government, through the Ministry of Youth and Sport, is working in collaboration with the United Nations Population Fund Agency (UNPFA) to build the capacity of the networks so that they are able to mobilise their own resources.
I thank you, Sir.
_______
BILLS
FIRST READING
THE LEGAL PRACTITIONERS (Amendment) BILL, 2013
The Minister of Justice (Mr Kabimba, SC.): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Legal Practitioners (Amendment) Bill, 2013. The object of this Bill is to amend the Legal Practitioners Act to permit the advertising of legal services.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House when it completes its deliberations. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
THE SERVICE COMMISSIONS (Amendment) BILL, 2013
The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Service Commissions (Amendment) Bill, 2013. The object of this Bill is to amend the Service Commissions Act to reconstitute the membership of the Judicial Service Commission.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House when it has completed its deliberations. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
THE BUSINESS REGULATORY BILL, 2013
The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Business Regulatory Bill. The object of this Bill is to:
(a) provide for an efficient, cost effective and accessible business licensing system;
(b) provide a set of principles and interventions to guide regulatory agencies when regulating and licensing business activities in accordance with a law under their mandate;
(c) provide for the classification of, and criteria for, licensing;
(d) establish an e-registry and assign a control number for laws regulating business;
(e) provide for the establishment of regulatory service centres, regulatory clearance systems and a single licensing system for business in each sector or group of businesses in a sector;
(f) establish the Business Regulatory Review Committee and the Business Regulatory Review Agency and provide for their functions and powers; and
(g) provide for matters connected with, or incidental to, the foregoing.
Thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House when it has completed its deliberations. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.
___________
MOTIONS
SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS 20, 21(1) AND 101
The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 20 and 21(1), if necessary, and Standing Order 101 be suspended to enable the House to complete all business on the Order Paper and all matters arising therefrom and that, on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.
Mr Speaker, the current meeting of the House commenced on Friday, 20th September, 2013. As of today, Friday, 13th December, 2013, one week short of three calendar months, the House will have been sitting for a total of forty-eight days. This meeting was primarily dedicated to considering and passing the 2014 National Budget, related budget legislation as well as to approve the Supplementary Estimates for 2013.
Furthermore, the House also debated the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Address to the House and undertook the policy debate on the Budget presented by the hon. Minister of Finance. In addition, hon. Members asked a total of 235 Questions for both oral and written answer. The Questions were very probing and kept the hon. Ministers on their toes and feet. The responses to these questions revealed important details on various aspects of the Government’s operations for the information of the House and the general public.
Sir, the House also debated one Private Member’s Motion and three Motions to adopt Committee reports, including a Select Committee report to ratify ministerial appointments to the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Board. Twenty-one ministerial statements were presented to the House to explain the Government’s position on various matters of national interest while nine annual reports from Government and quasi-Government institutions, including sixteen action-taken reports, were laid on the Table of the House. The House further considered and passed ten Government Bills.
Sir, during the meeting, the House received and welcomed six new hon. Members of Parliament following the by-elections held in the following constituencies:
(a) Chipata Central;
(b) Kafulafuta;
(c) Mansa Central;
(d) Mkaika;
(e) Mkushi North; and
(f) Solwezi East.
On a sad note, Sir, the House lost one of its Members, namely Hon. Dr Patrick Chikusu, Member of Parliament for Katuba Parliamentary Constituency and hon. Deputy Minister of Health.
Sir, this has been one of the longest meetings in our Parliamentary Calendar and I am glad to note that all the tasks that we set before the House have been successfully accomplished. As expected, there were a number of occasions when hon. Members expressed differing opinions on different subject matters. It is, however, gratifying to note that despite these differences, the House nearly always found common ground, made decisions accordingly and then moved on to the next business. This is as it should be in a democracy and I want to assure the House that the Executive will always take on board the progressive ideas from the Opposition that will benefit the nation.
Sir, in recognising the great amount of business transacted by the House, allow me to express my profound gratitude to all hon. Members for the co-operation, dedication to duty and constructive and invaluable contributions made during this meeting of the House. Having worked so hard, it is important that the House now takes a break to enable hon. Members to attend to other pressing duties in their respective constituencies.
Mr Speaker, I am aware that the 2013/2014 planting season has already begun. In fact, we are acutely aware because we are reminded of it at every turn. Therefore, it is important that hon. Members use the recess to supplement or complement the Government and private sectors in the distribution of farming inputs and credit to the intended beneficiaries in their constituencies. In addition, I wish to encourage hon. Members to get involved in the supervision of various development projects that are going on in their constituencies.
Sir, as 2013 comes to an end, allow me to take this opportunity to congratulate the Governments of Zambia and Zimbabwe for the successful co-hosting of the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNTWO) General Conference. Further, I wish to congratulate the Ministry of Youth and Sport for the successful hosting of the 14th Edition of the Council of Southern African Football Associations (COSAFA) Tournament where Zambia emerged winner.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister responsible for training and inspiring the team to achieve that. Particular congratulations also go to the Zambia Women’s National Under 17 Football Team, fondly known as the Junior Shepolopolo, for qualifying to the 2014 World Cup to be hosted by Costa Rica. This is an achievement yet to be attained by their male counterparts.
Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, female boxing is another area where successes were recorded and this deserves special mention. The Government continues to pledge its support to the development of various types of sport in this country.
Mr Speaker, in conclusion, let me commend you, the hon. Deputy Speaker and hon. Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House most sincerely for the efficient and impartial manner in which you presided over the Business of the House. Let me also thank the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the excellent service they continue to render to this House. May I also take this opportunity to express my gratitude to staff from the Office of the Vice-President and other Government ministries for the support and assistance they have provided throughout the meeting.
Mr Speaker, allow me now to wish all hon. Members and the entire nation a happy festive season and prosperous 2014. May God continue to bless Zambia.
Sir, I thank you.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to say a few words. I support the Motion that has been moved by His Honour the Vice-President for this House to suspend the Standing Orders to enable it rise sine die. His Honour the Vice-President has clearly outlined some of the events that have taken place in this country during the time that Parliament has been sitting.
However, as Zambians, we are very concerned, especially as the House goes on recess. There is a question that still remains unanswered that our constituents, the Zambian people, will be asking us, as hon. Members of Parliament, and that is: What is happening to the onstitution-making process? The picture is becoming blurred again. We are not very sure where …
Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order.
Sir, the Motion on the Floor is simple and straightforward, and that is, to suspend the Standing Orders. We expect the hon. Member to either support it or not support it. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to go into cross-country debate on this Motion?
Mr Speaker: This is a perennial issue. The Motion is very specific, and that is the suspension of the named Standing Orders to enable the House to complete its business. His Honour the Vice-President has also mentioned the business that has been transacted during the sitting in a much summarised form. Of course, it covers some of the issues that the hon. Member for Lubansenshi is referring to.
In order to move with dispatch, I would appeal to hon. Members to confine themselves to the Motion. We know that there are several issues that emerged and were discussed over the period. It is always tempting to, for want of a better expression, reopen those debates. As I see it, that is not the intendment of this Motion. The Motion is meant to seek the support of the House on a Motion moved by His Honour the Vice-President. I would, therefore, expect and urge hon. Members to be brief and relevant in their debates.
The hon. Member for Lubansenshi may continue.
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, there is still the issue of the famous 150 health posts that the people have been asking about.
Hon. Members: It is 650 clinics.
Mr Mucheleka: The issue of the 650 clinics is what the people will be asking about. It is important for us to know the position in regard to this so that we are able to answer the people when they ask.
Mr Speaker, in supporting the Motion moved by His Honour the Vice-President, I would like to say that hon. Members of Parliament are very grateful to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs for the circular that he issued. However, we would like to be assured that, as we interact with our people, our safety is guaranteed and that there will be no form of interference as we express our freedom of speech, movement and association. I do not want to come back and hear that a particular hon. Member of Parliament was harassed as he exercised his …
Mr Speaker: Order!
That is the Speaker’s concern.
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the interference in chiefs’ affairs, particularly the issues surrounding His Royal Highness Paramount Chief Chitimukulu, has disturbed the people of the Northern Province, specifically the Bemba people. Even as we go back to our constituencies, these are the issues that will be …
Mr Munkombwe: On a point of order, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, I have been privileged to be in this House for much longer than most people.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Munkombwe: In the Commonwealth Parliaments such as Canada and Britain, this Motion is supported within two minutes. Now, once you open a Pandora’s box, …
Hon. Opposition Members: What is your point of order?
Mr Speaker: Order!
The people who are saying, “what is your point of order?” are disorderly themselves. How can you bring the House to order if you are disorderly? You are trying to raise a point of order while seated. There is no moral right to do that.
The hon. Member on the Floor may continue.
Mr Munkombwe: Is the hon. Member for Lubansenshi in order to continue raising issues which have been adequately debated in this House after you have guided the House? This is the first point of order that I have raised, anyway.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Lubansenshi is not in order.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Clearly so, and those that will be debating after him, please, take note of that. I have urged you to be brief. There is no need to reopen debate. You can imagine what would happen if we reopened all the issues that we have debated in the sitting. There are many, varied and some very controversial issues, but that is not the purpose of this Motion. I think we need to come to terms with this fact and practice. So, let us try again.
The hon. Member for Lubansenshi may continue.
Laughter
Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, the levels of poverty are increasing, especially in Lubansenshi Constituency in Luwingu. The distribution of farming inputs has been chaotic and the roads in Lubansenshi have become impassable. I hope that His Honour the Vice-President has listened to the issues that I have raised and attention is be paid to most of them.
In conclusion, I wish the Government, all the hon. Members of Parliament and the people of Zambia a merry Christmas and a prosperous New Year. Let us part as friends because we are all Zambians.
Hon. Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Mucheleka: We must not be divided based on political, religious or ethnic affiliation. We only have one country. We must be tolerant of each other’s views.
Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise these serious issues that must be looked into by the Government.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: That is the spirit of the Motion.
Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the Motion is supported. In the interest of time and because we do not want to be here until midnight, I would like to say that we have debated very serious issues affecting the lives of our people. As His Honour the Vice-President has indicated, we are, indeed, going back to our people. We are going to see faces of boys and girls who will be looking forward to going back to school next month, in some cases, to classrooms with blown-off roofs. We are going to see boys and girls who are expecting to go to Grade 10, but their high schools or secondary schools have not yet been completed. We are going to see hungry mouths of boys and girls whose communities probably had a poor harvest. We are going to see men, women, boys and girls walking long distances purely because their roads have not been rehabilitated.
We are going to see young boys and girls fearing for their lives at crossing points because the culverts have been washed away or the bridges have broken down. These are the realities in our constituencies. The issues that we have raised are those that affect the development of our people and their quality of life. In 2014, we expect that our colleagues in the Executive will work very hard to address these pertinent issues which affect the lives of our people. We are all striving to ensure that there is development in our country and constituencies based on the principle of equitable distribution of resources. This has been the gist of our debate throughout this session.
Mr Speaker, with these few words, I would like to wish all our nationals in all corners of the country a happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Livune: Question!
Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, in supporting the Motion to suspend Standing Orders 20 and 21 (1) and Standing Order 101, I have the following to say in the twenty minutes that I have to speak.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, firstly, I want to wish everyone a merry Christmas and a happy New Year although I do not have any cards to give out. This includes you, Mr Speaker, your family and staff at this Parliament.
Mr Speaker, I realise that this House stands on four pillars and it is on these four pillars that we were able to look at the various issues that affect this country. His Honour the Vice-President indicated, in his presentation of the Motion, that His Excellency the President came to this House to present a Motion to officially open this House and we had to debate it. The President highlighted various issues that affect this country. It will not do us any good for us to always drift away from the issues that we agree upon in this House that need to be attended to. I believe that those issues must be addressed.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the President gave us the direction in which this country should go, but we have seen, in various aspects, a drift away from this, especially with regard to the Budget, whereby unplanned projects are implemented, leaving those which are planned for. This will ultimately render this House useless and this country will go in the wrong direction. We shall continue coming to this House, debate Motions and, at the end of the sitting, His Honour the Vice-President will move an Adjournment Motion in order to adjourn the House and we shall go back to the poverty in our constituencies and the people who are suffering. We shall go back to our constituencies where hon. Members of Parliament are perceived as automated teller machines (ATMs) that give out money every time the hon. Members of Parliament arrive in the constituencies. That is not the country we want to see. We want to see a country where hon. Members of Parliament can go to their constituencies without fear of being lumped with the burden of buying coffins and so on and so forth. That can only happen if the Government is serious enough to ensure that it does the right thing.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr E. C. Lungu: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: Order!
A point of order is raised.
Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I rise with some difficulties to make this point of order.
Mr Speaker, you have guided us that this Motion is very clear, but I am surprised at the incorrigibility of the hon. Member who is debating in a very ingenious way to avoid following your guidelines.
Mr Speaker, he is reviewing what has happened during this sitting in a very clever manner. Is he in order to be so clever and incorrigible at the same time?
Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
I will give the hon. Member the benefit of doubt because he has just started debating. I hope that he will recall my counsel that this is a very simple and straightforward Motion in due course. Ordinarily, it ought to be brief and not controversial. Unfortunately, in this House, we have a different experience. I do not want to take too much of the time to repeat what I had stated earlier. Mind you, the longer you speak, correspondingly, the fewer people will speak.
You may continue, Hon. Mufalali.
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Speaker, I am literally going through what His Honour the Vice-President stated and using the briefs that he gave to the House to support this Motion. He mentioned that six hon. Members of Parliament joined the House this year. I am questioning the by-elections because I realise that six hon. Members of Parliament came to this House under conditions that were not supposed to be there had there been harmony in this country. The coming to this House of the six hon. Members of Parliament is unprecedented because the by-elections came about out of malice.
Mr Speaker …
Mr Mutale: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: Order!
A point of order is raised.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise this point of order which is procedural.
Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member who is on the Floor in order …
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
Mr Speaker: Order!
He has not even finished making his point of order. We do not even know the subject of the point of order.
Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, you have guided the House before that people should not debate with their hands in their pockets. Is the hon. Member who is on the Floor in order to debate with his hands in the pockets?
Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.
Mr Speaker: Order!
Hon. Member, take note of my previous ruling.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.
Mr Speaker, I was saying that His Honour the Vice-President has indicated that six hon. Members of Parliament came to this House and, out of the six, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Sex MPs?
Mr Mufalali: … six MPs, not sex MPs.
Laughter
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I am saying that this is unprecedented because we have had by-elections that have come about out of malice and this practice must change. The country needs to move forward. I have seen that money that could have gone towards developmental projects that benefit the people has been gobbled by by-elections.
Hon. Opposition Members: Shame.
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, we are not proud to have six new hon. Members of Parliament coming to the House under one year. I do not think that is the way to go because we need to manage this country properly.
Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President also talked about the few tournaments that we won under the Ministry of Youth and Sport. However, sport in this country will not improve as long as there is no improvement in nutrition like he said when he went to the United Kingdom (UK). Without good nutrition, there will be more losses in sport. Further, lack of good nutrition affects people’s heights.
Laughter
Mr Mufalali: We have been told that when you do not have good nutrition, the brain is not well fed. These are things that we need to look at if we want to improve sports. We need to improve on the nutrition of our children so that they can, at least, be of average height.
Hon. Opposition Member: Like yours.
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the commitment His Honour the Vice-President made when he went out to look at nutritional issues needs to be supported. Good nutrition will enable us to have strong men and women who can win trophies. When we have people with stunted growth …
Hon. Opposition Member: Like Mushanga.
Mr Mufalali: ... and we are happy about it, …
Laughter
Mr Mufalali: I do not think it is right to say the people in leadership should be short simply because you are short.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, we need to ensure that we provide good nutrition to our people. Otherwise, the House will adjourn and we shall go back to a population that is starving and has no good food and water. The Government should provide that which His Honour the Vice-President committed himself to when he went abroad so that we have people of my height. We have been told that short people are a problem.
Laughter
Mr Mufalali: Some people are short because of poor nutrition. For others, it could be genetic. However, it is important that …
Mr Kampyongo rose.
Laughter
Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to continue debating in his mischievous way and wasting the time for this House which we really need?
Hon. Government Member: Waffling.
Mr Kampyongo: Is he in order not to just wrap up his support for the Motion if he has run out of issues to discuss instead of discriminating against some of the hon. Members sitting in front of him?
I seek your serious ruling, Sir.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: The hon. Member is definitely out of order. This is an earnest House. If the idea is to exhaust the twenty minutes, I have a countervailing power to curtail the debate if I determine that it is irrelevant, time wasting, is not adding value to the proceedings of the House and is also subtracting from the dignity and decorum of the House.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Let us try again.
Laughter
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I will move away from the issue of the importance of nutrition …
Hon. Opposition Member: Talk about thin people.
Mr Mufalali: … on to …
Hon. Opposition Member: Thin people.
Laughter
Mr Mufalali: … my final point.
Sir, I realise that by suspending the Standing Orders, we will be able to get back to our constituencies and give our constituents the information we have received in this House.
Mr Speaker, I urge His Honour the Vice-President to unite the country so that we do not have a divided nation.
Hon. Opposition Member: And short people.
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, in his Speech for the Official Opening of Parliament, His Excellency the President said that he was going to ensure that there is unity of purpose because this country has been united for over forty-nine years and we shall soon be celebrating fifty years of independence. The Golden Jubilee cannot be there if we are divided. Therefore, it is important that the unity of purpose is enhanced. I appeal to the Government to do away with the nepotism, tribalism, corruption and violence that has resulted in people getting injured and others dying. This has been brought about by a party that was given an opportunity to govern this country by the Zambian people.
Hon. Opposition Members: Which party?
Mr Mufalali: The PF.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the Government must also fulfil its promise on the Barotseland Agreement of 1964. It is time to sit down with the people of Barotseland and iron out the challenges that they presented in that agreement. His Excellency the President is aware that he promised that he was going to honour the agreement. We can achieve great things with unity. Let us not let the situation deteriorate. The Government has the capacity to unite the people without difficulty. I do not see why it should fear to unite the people that are unsatisfied. If you fail, we shall do it when we come to power in 2016.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, from the outset, let me say that I support the Motion on the Floor and that the people of Lupososhi are also behind it.
Sir, the House needs to adjourn sine die. It is always refreshing when we come to this stage of the sitting because it gives us ample time to be in the constituencies and look at the projects that are taking place.
Mr Speaker, it will provide an opportunity for us, as the Government, and as the people of Zambia, to evaluate 2013. This period will give hon. Ministers ample time to look at the various issues and ask hard-hitting questions about how we have performed as the Government. It is important that we evaluate whether the procurement process procedures have failed us. Do these procedures and processes require review, Hon. Minister of Finance?
Sir, we also have to find out how we have performed in the area of information dissemination through the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. It is this time that will provide an avenue for those of us that are in the Ministry of Gender and Child Development to ask ourselves what we are doing to ensure that incidents of gender-based violence are reduced.
Mr Speaker, this is the time to look at various issues that have been affecting this country such as national security by the Ministry of Defence as well as the issues of education and agriculture. Have the people been able to receive what they have been looking for? How do we intend to implement the 2014 Budget as the House goes on recess?
Sir, I wish the Zambian people a merry Christmas and a prosperous 2014 as we implement the 2014 National Budget.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: His Honour the Vice-President.
Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!
The Vice-President: Sir, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this Motion and ask the House for their unanimous support
I thank you, Sir.
Question put and agreed to.
SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES NO.1 OF 2013
The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now resolve into Committee of Supply to consider Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2013.
I am a bearer of a message from His Excellency the President recommending favourable consideration of the Motion I now lay on the Table.
Mr Chikwanda laid the paper on the Table.
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the Supplementary Estimates I am presenting have been prepared in accordance with Article 115 (2) (d) of the Constitution of Zambia, which reads:
“No warrant shall be issued by the President authorising expenditure from the general revenues of the Republic unless no provision exists for the expenditure and the President considers that there is such an urgent need to incur the expenditure that it would not be in the public interest to delay the authorisation of the expenditure until such time as a supplementary estimates can be laid before and approved by the National Assembly.”
Sir, by virtue of the authority conveyed in the article of the Constitution quoted above, I wish to present the Supplementary Estimates covering the Financial Year 2013. The total supplementary request stands at K9,322,034,621. Of this amount, a sum of K511 million represents funds released to institutions towards the end of the financial year 2012 and spent in 2013 while K672 million and K1.4 billion are savings declared within the approved Budget. A further K1.2 billion represents funds that were released directly to institutions during the year by the co-operating partners and carried forward sovereign bond proceeds that were not part of the 2013 Estimates, thereby leaving a balance of K6.97 billion. This has been financed by suppressing other areas of expenditure.
Sir, allow me to highlight …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!
Mr Chikwanda: … the substantial amounts that are contained in the Supplementary Estimates. Under Head 21, Loans and Investments, a total sum of K3,700,525,183 is required of which K1.3 billion is required for road works. K1.6 billion is required for financing of petroleum feedstock supply shortfalls in the first quarter. K374.6 million is for rehabilitation works under the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) and K263.8 million is required to dismantle debts incurred by the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ).
Mr Speaker, under the Ministry of Finance, a total sum of K1,659,505,976 is required of which K1.4 billion has been allowed to cover payment of the wage awards to civil servants and leaders. Under the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, a supplementary provision of K1,265,574,390 is required, of which K811.2 million is required for the purchase of maize by the FRA and K368.6 million is required for the procurement and distribution of fertiliser for the 2013/2014 Farming Season.
Sir, under Vote 99, Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure, a supplementary provision of K689,173,793 is required to dismantle domestic and external debt obligations.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move.
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, as I rise to debate Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2013, I would like to state that this Motion emanates from a flawed constitutional provision. You have to note that most of the monies which we are being asked to be approved have already been expended. If it were not for the good term “rubberstamping” not being unparliamentary, I would have said that we are rubberstamping because this money has already been expended. I recall that when the MMD was in the Government, our colleagues on your right used to say that Supplementary Estimates are as a result of poor planning in the management of resources. Are they now admitting that this estimate is a result of poor planning on their part? Did they not foresee that such issues would arise?
Sir, hon. Members of Parliament have been raising issues pertaining to debt contraction. We are aware that the Government of the Republic of Zambia has obtained a loan of US$50 million from India to finance the construction of 650 health posts.
Hon. Lubezhi: Yah!
Mr Mwiimbu: Despite …
Mr Speaker: Order!
Hon. Member for Namwala, I would like every hon. Member to see this sitting come to an end. There is a traditional way of acknowledging support and not the manner in which you are doing it.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: You can support, but in the traditional way and not by saying, yah.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: I hope I will not have to come back to you. The hon. Member may continue.
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, there are contentious issues, including one that is of interest among all hon. Members of Parliament. That is the issue pertaining to the construction of 650 health posts in all the constituencies.
Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: The hon. Minister of Health assured us that the construction of the health posts would be commissioned before the end of the year as a result of the loan obtained from India. It would appear that the Government is having difficulties with this loan.
Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, we have also read reports that the Government is having difficulties in accessing the loan as a result of the way it is treating the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). We would like the Government to come out clean on this matter and explain to us what has happened to the loan which made us assure members of the public that we were going to have the health posts in our constituencies.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, we are also aware that members of the public have been complaining about the PF Government contracting loans outside the country.
Members of the public have been saying that if we are not careful, we will be caught up in another death trap. We do not want to find ourselves in a situation where we are going to start lobbying for debt relief like we have done before.
Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Fortunately, Mr Speaker, we had good leaders under the leadership of the late Archbishop Mazombwe at the time who fought very hard to ensure that our debt was cancelled.
Mr Livune: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: We should not contract debt which we will not be able to repay.
Mr Speaker, I am also aware that this Government has gone out to borrow money to buy buses to give taxi and minibus drivers.
Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is it really prudent for us to borrow such huge sums of money to buy very cheap buses that are unreliable and will not even sustain the debt that we are going to incur? It is better for us to borrow money that we can use for projects that will benefit everybody.
Mr Speaker, we are also aware that in various constituencies, there are schools whose roofs have been blown off. On one hand, we have been assured that teachers’ houses are going to be built and, on the other hand, we borrow money to buy buses which we want to give to cadres.
Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Is that prudence?
Mr Speaker, we have been discussing the Budget for next year. We have under budgeted for the FRA for next year, too. As a result, the Government will come back with another Supplementary Budget, knowing that this House will not refuse to approve it. Is that the way we want to proceed with matters of national importance such as this one? That should not be the case.
Mr Speaker, as hon. Opposition Members, we have lamented the funding to provinces.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am aware that there are people who have been saying that the Southern Province has been given more money than any other province in next year’s Budget.
Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, those that are saying that should realise that the Southern Province has not benefited under the provincial budget for the construction of roads, schools and hospitals.
Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: They should realise that the money, …
Mr Livune: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: … which is appearing under this Vote, is for paying workers’ salaries. Is that bringing development to the Southern Province? Are we the ones who employed the workers in the Southern Province?
Mr Hamududu: No.
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, it is the Government that employed them. So, why should you be saying that the Southern Province is benefitting more when this money that has been allocated to the province is meant to pay workers’ salaries?
Mr Speaker, if you want us, hon. Members of Parliament from the Southern Province, …
Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: … to support such Supplementary Estimates, you should provide money for developmental projects for our province. If the money in the Supplementary Estimates will enable us to construct dams in the Southern Province, since that is a drought-prone area, then, we shall support it. We cannot support the Supplementary Estimates, knowing very well that where we come from, people are not benefitting in any way. Why do you want us to support measures that are detrimental to our interest?
Mr Speaker, on the Floor of this House, we have asked the Government of the Republic of Zambia to build Government hospitals in the Southern Province. We have had no Government hospital in Monze since Independence. We rely on the missionaries, and yet you want us to approve estimates like the ones you want us to approve today. Why do you want us to rubberstamp things that do not benefit us?
Mr Speaker: That word is unparliamentary as you rightly pointed out. Can you withdraw it.
Mr Mwiimbu: I withdraw it, Mr Speaker. It is only that all the good words are unparliamentary.
Laughter
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, we want developmental projects to take place in all the provinces of Zambia without discrimination.
Mr Speaker, we have lamented the state of the Kafue/Mazabuka Road which is a death trap, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: … but no money has been provided for the rehabilitation of the road. If the hon. Minister of Finance was going to provide money for that road, I would have been the first one to support this Motion.
Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament on the Floor in order to continue playing to the gallery? He is taking us back because he keeps lamenting things that have been talked about before.
Hon. Opposition Members: Question!
Mr Chilangwa: It will save this Parliament a lot of time if he stops repeating himself. I need your serious ruling, Sir.
Mr Speaker: I am not very clear whether the complaint is about playing to the gallery or repetition. If it is about playing to the gallery, I am afraid there is very little I can do about that. This is because in the nature of our proceedings, we are communicating to the public and gallery in that sense. This is a public broadcast proceeding and, in that sense, the public is part of this audience as much as we do not see them here where we are seated. However, if the problem is on the repetition, that is also my concern. The rules of debate do not permit repetition. So, as the hon. Member continues, he should, please, bear that in mind. I think the point has been made in principle. Therefore, what the hon. Member is essentially doing, for lack of a better expression, is belabouring the point.
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am aware that various hon. Members of Parliament from Kawambwa, whom I have been with in this House, have complained that there is a lot of underdevelopment in that constituency. Those views have been echoed by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: … who went to the extent of castigating hon. Members of Parliament from Luapula Province …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: … for failing to represent the people of the province …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: … on matters of national development.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, because of that failure, I want to talk on behalf of the people of Kawambwa.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the people of Kawambwa have lamented the poor road facilities.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: The people of Kawambwa have lamented the PF Government’s failure to provide safe drinking water.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: The people of Kawambwa have lamented the PF Government’s failure to provide funding for the Mununshi Banana Scheme.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Kampyongo: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing me to raise a point of order on the hon. Member who is very senior in the Chamber.
Mr Speaker, is he in order to divert his debate, …
Interruptions
Hon. Government Member: Leaving the people of Monze.
Mr Kampyongo: … and not talk about the people whom he is representing in this House and assume the role of the capable hon. Member of Parliament for Kawambwa …
Hon. Opposition Members: Question.
Mr Kampyongo: … who is doing very well in addressing the issues affecting his constituency? I seek your serious ruling, Sir.
Mr Speaker: My ruling is that the hon. Member for Monze Central started off very well by focusing on the Estimates of Expenditure No. 1 of 2013 and why he has reservations and misgivings about the manner in which the budgeting and implementation are being administered and resources being managed by the colleagues on my right. That was relevant.
However, when you go to an extent of not only speaking generally about developmental issues, but more so acting as a proxy …
Laughter
Mr Speaker: … for the hon. Member for Kawambwa, it takes us out of the realm of the debate.
Let us focus on the issue of Supplementary Estimates which the hon. Minister of Finance has brought to the House. I have said before, hon. Member for Monze Central, that you have made your point already. I do not want to stop you, but you have already made your point.
Continue, please.
Mr Mwiimbu: Thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker, I now want to talk about the need to come up with a Budget Act. I am aware that the hon. Minister of Finance and the Government have promised that there will be a Budget Act that will be presented to this House to enable hon. Members of Parliament, especially those from Luapula, to participate in the budgetary process on behalf of their people so that they are not condemned in future.
Laughter
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, it is important that this House is brought on board in the budgetary process. Once we have a budgetary process that is clear and an Act that will enable hon. Members of Parliament to participate in the process, we will reduce instances of having Supplementary Estimates.
Mr Speaker, I appeal to hon. Members of this House that, in future, when we want to bring in supplementary budgets on issues of national importance, there is a need to have consultations. There are issues of an urgent nature in our various constituencies that we would like to bring on board. We should be consulted on expenditures in the Supplementary Estimates and not in the original Budget so that we are part and parcel of the estimates.
With these few remarks, Sir, I would like to appeal to my colleagues on your right, especially those from Luapula, to support the Supplementary Estimates so that they are not condemned again.
I thank you, Sir.
Laughter
Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, I took time to look at the Supplementary Estimates which the hon. Minister of Finance has brought to this House.
Mr Speaker, I am at pains to support the Estimates of Expenditure No. 1 of 2013. Twenty-nine per cent of the Budget for this year is what the hon. Minister of Finance is seeking as supplementary expenditure. This is a clear indication that as far as the hon. Minister of Finance and other controlling officers of this country are concerned, things are not okay.
Sir, one thing, which makes my heart bleed, is the role of Parliament. The hon. Minister of Finance has come to the House today to request us to approve finances that have already been expended. This is not the right way to do things. In short, like someone said, we are simply rubberstamping.
Mr Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was talking about the role of Parliament which is to approve the National Budget. Today, the hon. Minister of Finance is asking us to approve finances that have already been spent. This is uncalled for. We should not condone this because it is simply rubberstamping or …
Mr Speaker: Order!
Hon. Member, that word is not part of our vocabulary.
Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the word “rubberstamping” and replace it with blind approval.
Sir, this is not the way we are supposed to do things. If hon. Members of Parliament take time to go through the Estimates, they will realise that something has gone amiss in this country.
By supporting this Motion moved by the hon. Minister of Finance, this House is simply supporting the inadequacies of the PF Administration.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Ngoma: Sir, on behalf of the people of Sinda, I am saying that this Motion should not be supported because what the hon. Minister is doing is totally unacceptable.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Ngoma: I would like to appeal to my colleagues not to abandon their role of providing oversight and holding the Executive accountable. This should not be an academic exercise. The hon. Minister of Finance has brought these Estimates at a wrong time.
Sir, this reminds me of what one hon. Minister said when we were removing the immunity of the Fourth Republican President. When he was interviewed on Zambian National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) TV, he said, “We took this Motion to Parliament on the last day because we had to ambush them.” Ambushing is one of the strategies of war. What you are doing, hon. Minister of Finance, is ambush this House. This Supplementary Expenditure that you are proposing we should approve involves so much that we cannot do it in the few minutes that we have here. The PF’s strategy of ambushing colleagues, especially hon. Members of Parliament, is not good.
Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister of Finance was moving this Motion, he indicated that certain areas in the Budget have been suppressed in order to provide for monies to other needy areas.
Interruptions
Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance has indicated that in making this supplementary proposal, certain areas are being suppressed. In essence, what he is saying is that certain areas, which are budgeted for, are being denied the funding so that we end up approving expenditure on wrong things.
Mr Speaker, my concern is that this year’s budget for by-elections, for example, was K4 million. At the time that this House was approving the budget of K4 million, it was very clear that the PF had petitioned over fifty seats. This is an activity-based budget. We also know very well that each by-election does not cost less than K5 million, but went ahead to budget for K4 million.
Mr Speaker, today, we have been told that we spent K92 million on by-elections
Mr Mwale: Mm!
Mr L. J. Ngoma: That is a source of concern. That is wrong, hon. Minister of Finance.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, Hear!
Mr L. J. Ngoma: You should not be doing things that way. Another area of concern, which shows that there is bad planning, is loans and investments. These Estimates that we are talking about are about K9 billion, but when you remove the carry-overs from 2012 and the so-called savings in 2013, which you cannot show clearly, it leaves K3.7 billion as loans. No wonder, the hon. Minister of Finance requested this House last week to give him a blanket cheque of K36 billion so that he can borrow any time. You are putting this country in a serious debt trap.
Mr Speaker, I do not support these Estimates because it is wrong to do so. What we are doing is wrong and is a source of abuse because the ministries and spending agencies do not strictly adhere to what has been budgeted for, knowing very well that there will be a supplementary budget which Parliament will approve.
Mr Speaker, my appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance is to, please, stop what he is doing because it is wrong at this time and age.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Ngoma: This type of planning was for the 1960s, 1970s …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Ngoma: … and not now. No wonder we bemoan the unavailability of a Budget Act. The hon. Minister of Finance is on record as having said, in 2011, that there was going to be a Budget Act. Now that we are going into 2014, when is that Budget Act coming? We want to clear this problem because it is a very serious one. Hon. Members of Parliament, take time to look at these Estimates and you will see what I am talking about. Actually, none of us would approve this if you took time to see what the hon. Minister of Finance is trying to bring to this House.
Mr Speaker, in conclusion, it is very clear that there is bad governance in the PF. Hon. Minister of Finance, what you are doing is terrible. It is bad governance.
Mr Mwaliteta: Question!
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Ngoma: If you were managing the country properly, you would not have ended up with a supplementary budget of 29 per cent. Where were you for the country to end up with such a supplementary budget?
Mr Speaker, with those few words, I want to say if it means calling for a division as an individual, I will do that because I do not support what the hon. Minister of Finance is doing.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Question!
Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Members for the support.
Mr Livune: Question!
Mr Chikwanda: I will not take a lot of time to rebut what the hon. Members have said. Hon. Mwiimbu debated very eloquently. The issue of constitutionality is beyond doubt. The Constitution provides that the Government cannot spend money which has not been authorised by Parliament. For these contingencies that arise in the course of the year and that constitute legitimate expenditure in the services of the Republic, we have to come to Parliament to get approval. Therefore, the constitutional aspect is anchored.