Debates - Wednesday, 12th February, 2014 | National Assembly of Zambia

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES OF THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 12th February, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_____________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

KONKOLA COPPER MINES’ NEW PAYROLL SYSTEM

248. Mr Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a) whether the Government would intervene in the problems that had arisen from implementing the new payroll system at Konkola Copper Mines Plc (KCM);

(b) whether the trade unions were consulted prior to implementation of the new payroll; and

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Shamenda): Mr Speaker, the Government will not intervene in the problems that have arisen from the implementation of the new payroll system at KCM Plc as the matter is being attended to by the KCM management and trade unions since the issues are administrative. The trade unions were consulted prior to the implementation of the new payroll system and they have indicated that they are currently awaiting feedback from the KCM management on how the challenges experienced on the implementation of the new system will be addressed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister explain to this House why the Government cannot intervene in the problems at the KCM considering that the people in Chingola are insulting the Patriotic Front (PF) because employees are not being paid on time. Even in January, they were not paid on the exact date they should have been. It took about five days from the actual day they should have been paid for them to be paid.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, usually, when any new system is introduced, there are teething problems and this case has not been an exception. However, we have been assured by management, which introduced the new system, and the union that these issues, as I said earlier on, are administrative. If the system is not working properly, there is very little that the Government can do about it. Sending our experts to run the payroll system of the mines is not attainable.

Therefore, I would like to assure the hon. Member of Parliament that we were equally concerned when we heard about these complaints and asked the unions and management for an explanation. They have assured us that everything is under control.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to respond to the growing concern of our people, especially on the Copperbelt and North-Western provinces, with regard to the challenge of casualisation of labour. How soon will the Government intervene in this matter to ensure that it is dealt with once and for all because our people want permanent jobs?

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, the substantive question was specifically on the payroll system at the KCM. I do not know how the payroll system affects casualisation of labour. If the hon. Member of Parliament wants to ask a question on casualisation of labour, he can do so privately, since he is sitting right behind me. Further, if we cannot discuss when business is suspended, he can, as usual, put a question and I will ably explain to him and, through him, the rest of the House.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Sir, the hon. Minister has indicated that he consulted both the KCM management and unions over this matter and that they have assured him that issues are being sorted out. Has the hon. Minister communicated to the employees at that company about the assurance he got?

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, I think the ministry will find it very difficult to run around the shore whenever there are challenges at companies in an attempt to explain what is happening, what management has agreed upon or the remedies being taken. I think that would be oversimplifying the duties and functions of the Government.

Sir, it is the responsibility of the trade unions, which are very well represented and speak on behalf of their members, to explain to their members and management, which also has very highly trained and educated people in the Human Resource Department who are capable of doing the same.

Sir, the area hon. Member of Parliament could probably pass through the mines and see what is happening at the moment. Earlier, because he was very concerned, he had intervened in this issue and the matter was discussed at length. However, he assured me that he equally concurred with the views of the unions and that the situation would get back to normal very soon.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, the question by …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I have a very serious point of order on the hon. Minister. Is he in order to misinform the House and people of Zambia that the Government does not intervene in administrative issues of private companies when he is on record as having intervened in a matter between Shoprite Zambia and its workers?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, as you answer the next question, you can address that point of order as well.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili is very clear. The PF Government is very unpopular on the Copperbelt now because of this payroll …

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Lubansenshi, I think you have already raised a point of order, if my memory serves me right.

Mr Mucheleka: No, it was a question.

Mr Deputy Speaker: In that case, you have your point of order.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I am very surprised that the hon. Minister can trivialise the issue of casualisation of labour at the mines. Is he in order to say that we can discuss this issue when business is suspended, and yet serious that the people working on the mines require permanent jobs is a serious concern? Is he in order to trivialise this issue and avoid answering the question as put to him through you?

Mr Deputy Speaker: The truth is that the question you raised was not related to Question 248. I think I kept quiet because I thought that you would let it pass. To that extent, the question was not in order.

Can the hon. Member for Mwandi continue.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, your Government is very unpopular on the Copperbelt …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Who’s Government?

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: … because …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, order!

Dr Kaingu: … of this payroll …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Member!

I asked you to continue with your question and then you say “your Government”. Whose Government are you talking about?

You may continue

Dr Kaingu: Sorry, Mr Speaker. On a lighter note, not the Government of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), of course.

Hon. Minister, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili is saying that the PF Government is very unpopular because of poor policies, including this payroll. Therefore, what are you going to do about this unpopularity?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think for us to continue with the debate smoothly, let us not raise points of order on a point of order. I think let him make his point.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Deputy Speaker: If you have a point of order after that, you can raise it later.

Can the hon. Member continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: It is a question.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Chipili has said that the payroll existing in the mines, at the moment, is making the Government very unpopular, …

Mr Sichinga: On a point of order, Sir.

Dr Kaingu: … indeed, and I have seen it for myself that …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Kaingu: What will be done about the unpopularity of the Government?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi in order to make reference to the Government’s payroll when, in fact, the question is referring to a private company’s payroll on the Copperbelt? Is he in order to phrase his question in a manner that creates the impression that the Government is running the payroll?

I need your serious ruling.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The question in (b) relates to whether trade unions were consulted prior to the implementation of the new payroll. I think that the hon. Minister should be able to handle that.

Can the hon. Member on the Floor continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the PF Government is very unpopular on the Copperbelt …

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: … because it has failed …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Kaingu: … to get …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!

Please, let us not turn the Chamber into a forum for debating issues as we please. You are supposed to ask a question.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can you ask your question, hon. Member for Mwandi.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the Member for Chipili, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Dr Kaingu: … Hon. Mwila, is concerned about the unpopularity of his Government on the Copperbelt because it is not engaging the union in discussing this issue. Hon. Minister, what are you going to do about this?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Mumbwa.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, arising from the hon. Minister’s answer that this matter is being handled administratively, I would like to find out from him whether he has thought of a time frame in which this satisfaction he has expressed will be fulfilled so that the nation is at ease.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Thank you. That is the type of question the Chair is comfortable with.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, do take into account that point of order that was raised earlier on as you answer. I directed you to answer it in the process of answering subsequent questions.

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, whenever a new system or new software is being introduced, there are problems experienced. Similarly, we had problems with our microphones here and things like that, but it was resolved. When we had an issue at Shoprite, the dispute was industrial relations related. There was work stoppage and it is within the ambits of the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to make sure that there is industrial harmony, hence its intervention in resolving the issue. This was done so that people could go back to work and restore normal production and high levels of productivity. In such cases, the Government can intervene.

Mr Speaker, if a computer has a problem at the KCM, I find it very difficult to appreciate that the Government or an hon. Minister is expected to go round repairing computers or looking at the computer software at the various companies. If that be the case, then, we shall have a very serious problem.

The issue is that the Government can intervene, but it has got to be relevant to the portfolio and the functions of the ministry. However, it cannot do the technical work when it is supposed to be dealing with policy.

Mr Speaker, coming to the issue that has been raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa, the time frame here does not arise. I would like to confirm that all the challenges which were surrounding this issue have been resolved. If there are other issues which have arisen, they are new. All the issues pertaining to the payroll have now completely been resolved.

Sir, I would like to make something very clear. When you have companies running their businesses, there will be friction and problems here and there, but that does not reflect the policies of the Government. For anybody to say the Government is becoming unpopular because of the bad policies of implementing the payroll in the mines, I think that questions the thinking of the hon. Member of Parliament who is a vice-president for that matter.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Dr Kaingu: Point of order.

Mr Shamenda: I sincerely apologise, Mr Speaker. I did not mean to question the thinking of the doctor who is also a vice-president for the MMD. However, I would expect him to help us resolve some of these issues instead of asking controversial issues.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: You have not addressed the point of order that was raised.

Hon. Government Members: It was covered when he made reference to Shoprite.

Mr Deputy Speaker: On Shoprite? Okay, fine.

Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I think that the KCM has become one of the most problematic mines on the Copperbelt. I say so because just recently, we heard about an issue concerning it and the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), then, there was the issue concerning it and the Zambia Telecommunications Company Limited (ZAMTEL) and, now, it is its payroll system. I would like to find out whether the ministry has started engaging other line ministries to ensure that the KCM puts its house in order.

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, my brother from the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development and I always discuss all the issues that deal with the KCM and in cases that involve land, I discuss with the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. We meet from time to time to compare our notes so that the left hand knows what the right hand is doing.

I thank you, Sir.

BAROTSE PLAINS AS WORLD HERITAGE SITE

249. Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

(a) whether the Government had any plans to make the Barotse Plains a world heritage site;

(b) how much consultation with the local stakeholders had already taken place prior to declaring the Barotse Plains a world heritage site;

(d) what the declaration of the plains as a world heritage site entails.

The Deputy Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mrs Kawandami): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans of making the Barotse Cultural Landscape a world heritage site.

Mr Speaker, consultation with the local people has been part of the process from the start. The Barotse Royal Establishment has been very instrumental in the identification of cultural resources and definition of the boundary and its buffer. Additionally, from the time the site was put on the world heritage tentative list as one of the five sites which Zambia had submitted for the nomination as a world heritage site in 2009, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the National Heritage Conservation Commission, has conducted a series …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right!

Mrs Kawandami: … of stakeholder meetings both at provincial and district levels. Similarly, awareness meetings were held during the Re-classification Programme on Zambia’s Protected Areas System at the workshops in 2012 in Kalabo, Sesheke and Senanga. Other stakeholder awareness programmes were conducted through the Climate Resilience Infrastructure Development Programme for the canal management in the Western Province. Furthermore, the commission has established an office in Mongu …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can we, please, have order on my left.

Mrs Kawandami: … and has conducted local community radio programmes. Officers on the ground have been sensitising local stakeholders on the nomination of the landscape as a world heritage site.

Mr Speaker, having the Barotse Landscape as a world heritage site will enhance preservation of cultural heritage and the image of the country and foster national identity. This status will further promote tourism, education and research. It will also profile not only the Kuomboka Ceremony, but also many other traditional ceremonies around the country which will result in the promotion of cultural heritage. The nomination of sites to the world heritage list is generally a catalyst of recreation through stimulation of tourism and new investments, hence the benefit to the local people.

Mr Speaker, some of the valuable cultural heritage of the plains are not in good condition and are at times desecrated by the general public despite their relevance to the landscape and the nation at large. Therefore, nominating it as a world heritage site will provide an opportunity for restoration as there are opportunities of external funding. The landscape site will also enjoy protection with international standards.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister elaborate the raison d’état behind the plans that they have as a ministry?

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, before I answer this question, I would like to mention that it was raised in the last Parliamentary sitting and the ministry took the trouble to invite all our colleagues who raised disquiet for a morning seminar to explain all the issues pertaining to the nomination of the Barotse Landscape as a world heritage site and Prof. Lungwangwa was present. I just wanted to inform the hon. Members about that. However, maybe, he is asking this for political expediency and, therefore, I will take the trouble to answer his question.

The reasoning behind …

Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Aah, takuli!

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, we are in this House to represent the people and, therefore, the questions that we raise are from the people. Is the hon. Minister in order to insinuate that when we raise questions in this House, we do so for political expediency?

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, she is not in order. Hon. Minister, as you continue, avoid bringing in political jabs.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the rationale behind nominating the Barotse Landscape as a world heritage site is the fact that amongst all the national heritage sites in this country − and there will be many more that we shall be sending for nomination − it has some unique features which I, once again, want to share for the sake of what this will mean to the international world.

Currently, when there is a flood anywhere in the world, we see a lot of panic and people moving all over the place taking a lot of money to try to mange a flood. However, what Zambia is saying to the world is that here is a place in Africa, which, in most instances is underplayed, showing resilience and how people, using their African intelligence, have managed to survive the floods. We want the world to know that there is a group of men and women in the Western Province who not only managed to survive the floods, but were also able to preserve graves that have stood the test of time because of the skill and technology they had.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: We, as Zambians, would like to show that with pride. That was one of the reasons behind the nomination of the Barotse Landscape as a world heritage site.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, we have heard the many plans of the PF Government. However, when it comes to implementing some of its promises, there have been zero results. Can the hon. Minister give a time frame attached to this process to the House and the people of Zambia?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, there is a process which is not determined by Zambia as a country alone. It is an international process. At the moment, we are at the last stage of this process. We had a technical committee to look into this matter and a consultant that was brought into this country has evaluated the landscape, our capacity and the requirements that will be required for us to protect this world heritage site. We are now just waiting for the United Nations Educational Scientific and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) to nominate this site. I want to say that I will proudly travel to receive this very great news of the declaration of the Barotse Landscape a world heritage site.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, experiences in other areas not just in Zambia, but outside are such that when an area is declared a world heritage site, within that premises or boundaries, there are restrictions on what people can and cannot do. They have to get permission to cut a tree, build a structure, and cultivate the land or fish. Can the hon. Minister outline to the people of the Western Province, who are now listening, what restrictions will come to them over their activities on a day-to-day basis when this site is declared a world heritage site.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, my reading of the situation is that it is not true that when this place is declared a world heritage site, people will not be allowed to fish. I think that what is important are the regulations that we will put in place to protect the site so that there will be no destruction to it. In fact, what we are looking forward to is to avoid damage to the site and that we try and preserve what we have. When the site is nominated, the restrictions will be told to us and we are going to share them not only with this House, but also the nation at large and, in particular, the people of the Western Province because that site will have to be protected by them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, the question asked touched on whether consultations about this issue took place. In my view, consultations on this issue should have started with the councillors and hon. Members of Parliament who are elected citizens. Unfortunately, the hon. Minister has not told this House what the hon. Members of Parliament said to her when they met her.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I want to believe that every Zambian is entitled to consultation and I also want to believe in a saying that originates where I come from that, “Amano yafuma mwifwesa yayamuculu.”

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, this saying means that wisdom can be imparted from a small anthill to a big hill. Therefore, our approach, as a ministry, was to consult everybody, that is, the ordinary person, traditional leaders, religious leaders and the rest of the people.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, what will the reaction of the hon. Minister be if, generally, the nationals of the Western Province do not agree with this nomination?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, we did the consultation. The decision to declare the Barotse Landscape into a world heritage site was not made from Lusaka. Even the Litunga and his Barotse Royal Establishment (BRE) which, from what I know, represents all these hon. Members of Parliament who hail from the Western Province, agreed to this. I would like to believe that the people of the Western Province are in support of this through the people whom we consulted. However, if there are individuals who have some disquiet over this issue, we are still open to listen to them. However, I think that the majority of the people in the Western Province are on board.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, in her response, the hon. Minister stated that if there will be restrictions, they will be made known to the House and the nation at large. Therefore, that word “restrictions” becomes my subject. If she knows that restrictions will be enforced when the nomination is made, how will they be borne by the entire nation when there is a specific place, which is the Western province or Barotseland, which will be the site that will affected by the restrictions? How can the restrictions be borne by everyone when it is us, the people of the Western Province, who are living there?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, in answering this question, let me just share with the hon. Member of Parliament that Zambia already has sites that have been nominated as world heritage sites, and one of them is the Victoria Falls. I have not heard of anybody who has been restricted from going to the Victoria Falls. Everybody enjoys the Victoria Falls and if you did not know that it is a world heritage site, you will realise that we can learn many lessons from it. Bungee Jumping is allowed and so is everything else …

Mr Miyutu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to compare the Victoria Falls to the Baroste Landscape, where people reside, …

Interruptions

Mr Miyutu: … while she knows that the Victoria Falls has water and rocks and is an area where animals, and, in this sense I mean wild animals, such as crocodiles and hippos and monkeys live? Is she in order to compare the two places when they are quite different?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The person who has raised the point of order is the one who asked the substantive question and he is using the point of order to debate. I think that for us to proceed really smoothly, that is not correct.

The hon. Minister can continue.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I had actually ended my reply.

I thank you, Sir.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs in order to say that you can take any species to the Victoria Falls and that you can cut trees there, when we know very well that once a site such as the Victoria Falls has been declared a world heritage site, you cannot import new species there and you cannot take out species from there. Is she in order to say that you can play around …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You are raising your point of order long after the hon. Minister has finished responding.

May the hon. Member for Keembe continue, please.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that there will be restrictions. Should it not have been better, first of all, to look at the restrictions before making an application so that these restrictions are discussed with the people who are living in the area?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the restrictions that are usually given for world heritage sites are positive and these are meant for preservation.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I would like to raise this question from a basic point of view. Can the hon. Minister inform the people of the Western Province and the nation at large what benefit will accrue to this nation and the people as a result of declaring the flood plains a heritage site.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

__________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

PARLIAMENT RADIO FAULT

Mr Deputy Speaker: Before, the hon. Minister answers, I just want to inform the House the following:

Hon. Members, I wish to inform you that Parliament Radio has developed a fault in Lusaka and its surrounding areas. The other broadcasting centres are unaffected. The interruption in transmission is due to the heavy rains experienced in Lusaka at the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Twin Palm Transmitters area in the last few days which resulted in water clogging the antennas. Our technicians are on site to solve the problem as soon as possible.

Thank you.

__________

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the benefits were explained. The hon. Deputy Minister said that there will be benefits like education, tourism and research, among others. There will also be profiling of the Kuomboka Ceremony which will result in a lot of trade, hence the people will benefit.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether a Statutory Instrument (SI) has already been passed.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, which SI? I said that we were at the last stage of the nomination. The technical expert left Zambia a few months ago. So, what are we talking about?

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just indicated that among the benefits will be the profiling of the Kuomboka Ceremony and research …

Ms Lubezhi: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, I stand on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs in order to mislead the nation concerning the SI or to express ignorance about it when, actually, it is her ministry which initiates SIs concerning anything to do with it. There is SI No. 84 of 2013 concerning the National Heritage Conservation Commission Act for Barotseland, the topic at hand. I will lay this SI on the Table as proof of what I am saying.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi laid the paper on the Table.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, you may wish to address that issue when answering the next question.

May the hon. Member for Sinda continue, please.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I was just indicating that the hon. Minister said that amongst the benefits to accrue to the nation will be the profiling of the Kuomboka Ceremony and many other things, including research. Considering the fact that in the current past, the Kuomboka Ceremony has been profiled and research has been done, is she indicating that the PF has failed and as such, wants to abdicate its responsibility by giving it to a foreign entity because it is very clear that it is a failed administration?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, that is why I wanted to know which SI the hon. Member was asking about in particular. In response to the last question, I guess when you look at how our colleagues profile their activities, for example, if you just get on South African Airways, you would think that the Victoria Falls is in South Africa. So, when we talk about profiling for tourism, we mean a different approach to the marketing tool. When we talk about research, it does not exclude Zambians from researching. If anything, there is a lot that we do not know about the Barotse Landscape and many other places in Zambia. Therefore, it is important to open it up for research so that many other people can benefit from it since there are a lot of people who do not know much about it. It is, therefore, important that people learn and get educated.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you wanted to know which SI it was. It was laid on the Table of the House and now that you know, do you have any comments to make on that one?

Hon. Opposition Members: Answer! Answer!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, this SI was a requirement by the people who came to look at the final stage for the nomination of the site.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, …

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, is it not procedural to remove from the records a statement that has been considered unpalatable to this House? The hon. Minister said that there was no SI. However, it has been proved to her that there has been one. Therefore, she misinformed the House. Can that statement be removed from the records?

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I followed that up with a request to the hon. Minister to give her view on the SI since, then, she knew the particular one the hon. Member made reference to. I thought that the earlier question on the SI was on declaring the Barotse Landscape a world heritage site. However, she has explained and I think that it is understood.

May the hon. Member for Lukulu West continue, please.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, my concern is on the landscape. The SI No. 84, which was signed on 2nd September, 2014, by the hon. Minister, is talking about Mongu, Senanga, Lukulu, Kalabo, and Shang’ombo districts, an area of about 59,000 square kilometres, and this is the whole Barotseland. Is this an answer to issues surrounding the Barotseland Agreement or is it a different agreement which might be a source of discord another time?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the Barotse Landscape is not restricted to Mongu. It is a big area. Therefore, there was a need for a description in case this heritage site is nominated. I would like to reiterate that the process involved everybody and there were a lot of discussions and consultations made.

Ms Imenda rose on a point of order.

Prof. Luo: In case it was not clear to the hon. Members when we met, I, again, invite them to our offices to seek clarification so that they can understand clearly.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Luena, you may ask a question, but not raise a point of order.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, …

Prof. Luo rose to leave the Assembly Chamber.

Ms Imenda: … I am worried about the hon. Minister’s intransigence …

Hon. Opposition Member: Where is she going?

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, where is she going?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, …

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Member: Mesmerising.

Laughter

Prof. Luo resumed her seat.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I am concerned at this Government’s intransigence on certain issues, especially this particular one. Why is it that it cannot withdraw its decision to declare the Barotse Landscape a world heritage site? The hon. Minister is saying that the Government consulted everybody, but that is not true. Therefore, I am suggesting to the hon. Minister that the Government withdraws this, goes back to the drawing board and consults everybody.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, as far as we, as a Government, are concerned, we consulted. That is why I said that we had a seminar with the hon. Members of Parliament. So, if there is some disquiet, hon. Members are free to come to the office and we can continue to discuss the matter. However, I think this process is too advanced to be withdrawn and we need to find a way for those who have some disquiet to buy into this process.

I thank you, Sir.

DISTRICT COMMISSIONERS’ TRAINING IN GOVERNANCE

250. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Vice-President how often the District Commissioners (DCs) underwent training in governance matters of the country.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Mwango): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the DCs …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I am not sure whether we are listening. The person who asked the question would like to hear the answer in order to raise a follow-up question, if they will have any.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, the DCs, like other civil servants, are entitled to undergo continuous professional development programmes depending on the availability of funds. These programmes vary widely in nature and scope, but there are some which are tailor-made to suit individual specific needs such as matters relating to governance.

Mr Speaker, a comprehensive induction programme for the first group of the DCs has already been conducted while arrangements to induct the remaining group are underway.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, may I know when the next batch of the DCs will receive this training.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, we will inform the House in due course.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, does His Honour the Vice-President know if there has been any feedback from the first batch of trainees to determine whether they grasped what they were taught, considering the way they are operating?

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I do not think the question was designed to elicit that information and, therefore, did not elicit the appropriate research before we answered the question. I will do some research on it because it is bound to come back in the Vice-President’s Question Time. However, at the moment, it is not actually germaine to the question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President aware that these DCs who are not oriented on Government operations are frustrating civil servants who are well qualified in these places?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am not aware.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I would like to hear from His Honour the Vice-President …

Hon. Opposition Member: The horse’s mouth.

Mr Mwanza: The horse’s mouth, thank you.

Sir, a Permanent Secretary by the name of Mr Muwana …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

We know that it is one of our standing rules here that we should try as much as possible not to mention names of people who are not represented here because they might find it difficult to defend themselves.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your advice. I would like to find out from the PF Government whether a husband can supervise a DC who is his wife in Chilanga?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am lost on that question. Of course, if it so happens that two people …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: … are married on one scale and are working together on another scale, then, that is how it is. We do not have a discriminatory system as far as I am aware.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I remember His Honour the Vice-President standing there and criticising the MMD Government for having hired people who were unqualified party cadres to the position of the DC. However, less than a month later, he changed and said that it is okay to hire party cadres to be DCs. Can he comment on the competence of the party cadres who have been hired.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, some of them are turning out to be extremely competent, especially with the additional courses …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … and some of them will, no doubt, miss the jump. From the horse’s mouth, I will tell you that those will have to fall out of the race. The situation is perfectly normal as far as I am aware.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister, in his answer, mentioned the fact that there are two groups of DCs. One group has gone through comprehensive training while the other is yet to be trained. How do you compare the output between the two groups in order to find out whether this training is relevant to the cause of the DCs?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we will do it the same way you do it in any other form of training. You observe their competence and also, perhaps, give them some examinations and tests now and then. I do not think that it is different from any other form of training.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, is the His Honour the Vice-President aware that the cadres who have been appointed as DCs are interfering with the operations of councils?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I was asked another question like that and the answer was that I am not aware.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Chadiza and the hon. Member for Sikongo have made His Honour the Vice-President aware that the DCs are frustrating qualified senior civil servants and antagonising the work of the councils. Now that he is aware, how quick is the Government going to move as far as orienting the DCs who have not been oriented?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we will look into it, but in order to get any progress, some specifics such as the names, places and dates confided in us would be quiet useful.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, there are PF cadres who are masquerading as DCs because they were, perhaps, appointed. Is it possible that before these PF cadres, who have been appointed DCs, are taken for that tailor-made programme, that simplified material or handouts can be given to them to read, that is, if they can be able to comprehend the material? Are you able to do that?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think it is not appropriate for the Leader of Government Business in the House to respond to sarcasm with more sarcasm, if you will excuse me.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, does His Honour the Vice-President want to know the DC who is interfering with the councils’ work? In Mwandi, …

Dr Phiri: Speak in confidence!

Mr Kaingu: I want to say it in confidence. In Mwandi, …

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. The questions we ask on the Floor of this House are given to us by the people in the constituencies. Is His Honour the Vice-President in order to fail to answer an important question that I have put to him on behalf of the people of Lubansenshi Constituency?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Sometimes, you put us, as presiding officers, in a very difficult situation, hence we gloss over certain things that are said. Your question was about those cadres who are appointed masquerading as DCs. I kept quiet deliberately because if somebody is appointed, he/she cannot masquerade. However, His Honour the Vice-President said that he was not in a position to answer sarcasm with sarcasm. Your Honour the Vice-President, can you shed light on that matter.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member in question is capable of understanding this answer with the education that he has, I would tell him that the level of the material that we educate or pass onto our DCs is appropriate to their standing, educationally and professionally speaking. He may disagree but, in that case, he would have to come to my office and we can have an argument over that. However, we cannot go into details of individuals who may or may not be able to understand this or that word or paragraph.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mwandi can continue but, please, do not go into naming people.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, I want to believe that DCs are civil servants. Is there any work appraisal for them?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, of course.

I thank you, Sir.

DREDGERS IN THE WESTERN PROVINCE

251. Mr Mutelo asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) when the main canal in Lunga District would be dredged; and

(b) whether the Government had any plans to procure dredgers for use in Lunga District and other flood-prone areas like Mitete in Western Province.
The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Col. Kaunda): Mr Speaker, I wish to commend the hon. Member who has asked this question for living up to the word of, “One Zambia, One Zambia”, that despite coming from Lukulu West, his heart and mind, are in Lunga, which is in Luapula Province. We thank him and that is how it is supposed to be.

Mr Speaker, the main canal in Lunga District, which is called Buyantanshi Canal, is currently being worked on using a dredging machine. The ministry has since sent K100,000 for clearing and maintenance of the canal. More funds will be sent as the Treasury releases them.

The Government has already set aside K80 million in the 2014 Budget for the procurement of more dredging machines. Once the dredgers have been bought, Mitete and many other districts are likely to benefit.

Mr Speaker, suffice it to make mention that the tender process for the procurement of these dredging machines has since commenced.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Kabanshi: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: On whom?

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, may I be protected.

Mrs Kabanshi: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member for Lukulu West in order to initiate questions on the issues that are affecting Lunga when the people there are benefiting from the creation of Lunga as a new district? As far as I am concerned, this hard-working Government is trying to resolve all the issues in the new districts. I expected him to bring feedback on the benefits that Mitete and other newly-created districts are accruing, especially after receiving vehicles and computers that I handed over just three weeks ago. I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! It is now difficult for me to make a ruling on that one. Where is Lunga?

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Do you want to know whether he is in order to ask about something which is not in Lukulu West? If I was told that Lunga was in the Northern Province, according to what the hon. Minister said, still, that would have been in order. So, he is in order.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, Lunga is actually in her constituency. The answer has come out clearly that works have actually commenced in Lunga, but there is nothing happening in Mitete. There are just a lot of promises.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Mutelo: Sir, why are works only done in Lunga and not in Mitete?

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: I am the one who has raised this question.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Why have the works not commenced in Mitete, but have commenced in Lunga which has not been asked about?

Laughter

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, for the information of the hon. Member for Lukulu West, the works that are being done in Lunga begun way back before Hon. Kabanshi became Minister of Local Government and Housing. I went there when I was just appointed hon. Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, are the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing and the hon. Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication in order to contradict each other over my question? The hon. Deputy Minister commended my question and said that it was in the spirit of “One Zambia, One Nation”, but the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing condemned it and stated that there is no need for me to be concerned with developmental projects in other parts of the nation. Are they in order to contradict each other like that?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

By interest, I made a ruling when I said that if Lunga is not in Lukulu West and it is in the Northern Province, it was in order, in accordance with what the hon. Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication had said. So, your point of order had already been ruled on.

The hon. Member for Kaputa can continue.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just indicated that about K80 million has been set aside for procuring the dredgers. I would like to find out from him whether the people of Kaputa will benefit from these dredgers once they have been brought into the country because Lake Mweru requires to be dredged.

Col. Kaunda: The answer, Sir, is yes. The people of Kaputa will benefit.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Deputy Speaker: Next question.

Mr Pande rose.

Mr Deputy Speaker: When you decide to stand as an afterthought …

Mr Pande: The camera person was standing in my view.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The camera person is being used as a scapegoat.

Laughter

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, since the dredgers are currently working in Lunga District, when do you intend to send the dredgers to Mitete?

Hon. Government Member: Tomorrow.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the last time I had to use a boat to travel from Mongu to Kalabo because the dredging machines were working on the Mongu/Kalabo Road. So, as soon as the procured machines come in, they will be sent to Mitete, Lukulu West, Lukulu South and other areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, we would like to know when these dredgers will be sent to Mitete.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, I wish I could give a date, but suppose the procured machines will be brought to Zambia using the sea and the ship capsizes and they sink, you would blame me for not fulfilling the promise of delivering on the date I would give. Therefore, as soon as they arrive in Zambia, we shall send them out.

Thank you, Sir.

FEEDER ROAD UPGRADING IN CHIKANKATA DISTRICT

252. Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when the following feeder roads in Chikankata District would be upgraded to bituminous standard:

(a) Chikani/Simwaambwa;

(b) Idaf/Mulawo;

(d) Hospital/Hampande/Kasaka.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kufuna): Mr Speaker, in response to the question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chikankata Constituency, I wish to inform this august House that the stated roads are presently not being upgraded to bituminous standard, but will only be rehabilitated and maintained to gravel standard once funds are available. However, the ministry is currently working on two feeder roads in Chikankata Constituency, namely Malabo/Changa Road, totaling 57 km, and Mwanamainda/Kasengo Road, totaling 31 km.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu: Mr Speaker, it has taken a long time for feeder roads to be worked on in Chikankata Constituency, in particular, and countrywide. I would like to find out from the ministry what the problem is.

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, I do not think that there is any problem because I have mentioned that there are two feeder roads that are currently being worked on in Chikankata. Like I mentioned, the roads are Malabo/Changa Road totalling 57 km and Mwanamainda/Kasengo Road totalling 31 km.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the contractors have abandoned the works on those roads?

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, I think that could be because of the rainy season. The contractors might be on recess while waiting for the rains to subside before they can resume the works on those roads.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, in other countries, it rains throughout the year. Is the hon. Deputy Minister telling us that if, similarly, it rained throughout the year in Zambia, the Government would not work on the roads in this country?

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, if the contractors have to do a good job, they would have to wait for the rain to reduce.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that there are no works being undertaken on the two roads that he mentioned?

Interruptions

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, I think I have answered that question. I said that the contractors are on break and when the rains reduce, they will continue with the works.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, the Malabo/Changa Road is very important to those of us who hail from there. I would like the hon. Minister to be specific and state whether the contractors are on recess or they have actually abandoned the works on the road.

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, the money that we have spent on the Malabo/Changa Road is K1, 597,856. The contract sum was K2,064,340. Therefore, there is a balance remaining and it will be paid after the completion of the works.

I thank you, Sir.

DIP TANK CONSTRUCTION IN NAKONDE CONSTITUENCY

253. Mr Sichula (Nakonde) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when dip tanks would be constructed in the following areas in Nakonde Parliamentary Constituency:

(a) Shem;

(b) Chanka;

(d) Ntatumbila;

(e) Chawa;

(f) Uzinji;

(g) Ntenko;

(h) Chilolwa;

(i) Chiwale;

(j) Nchenga; and

(k) Kantongo.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, it should be noted that this question was asked in early November, 2013, and when the ministry responded, the answer was as follows:

“The Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, in its 2014 Budget, has made provisions for the construction of two dip tanks in Chanka and Chilolwa areas. In 2015, the ministry also plans to construct new dip tanks in Musundano, Chiwale and Nchenga areas.

Additionally, in terms of rehabilitation of dip tanks, the ministry, in its 2013 budget, provided for the rehabilitation of the existing dip tanks in Shem and Ntatumbila areas. Rehabilitation of the dip tank in Shem has been completed while the one at Ntatumbila is 30 per cent complete. Uzinji area will be serviced by the dip tank in Ntatumbila.

Furthermore, the ministry, in its 2014 Budget, has provided for the rehabilitation of three existing dip tanks in Chawa, Ntenko and Kantongo areas.”

Mr Speaker, currently, the dip tanks at Shem, Ntatumbila and Kaombwe, which were being rehabilitated in 2013, have been completed and have since been commissioned.

However, due to subsequent budgetary reshuffles in the 2014 Budget, preparations necessitated the allocation of funds to other priority areas, and taking into account the animal population in the area, the ministry has allocated K370,000 for the rehabilitation of four dip tanks in 2014 at Ntenko/Chawa, Ntenko, Kantongo and Kazemba in Nakonde District.

I thank you, Sir.

LUMWANA MINE AND FIRST QUANTUM MINERALS

254. Mr Mwila asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a) who the shareholders of the following mining companies were:

(i) Lumwana; and
(ii) First Quantum Minerals;

(b) how much money, in taxes, the two companies had paid to the Government from 2010 to 2013, year by year; and

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, the shareholders of Lumwana Mining Company Limited are Equinox Africa Limited and Joannous Georgious while the shareholders of First Quantum Mining Operations Limited are Cover Investments and Lamaswala Kwalela Mubita.

Sir, the money paid by Lumwana Mine and First Quantum Minerals in form of taxes from 2010 to 2013, year by year, is as follows:

Lumwana Mine year Amount paid (K)

2010 165,681,325
2011 654,733,188
2012 493,668,792
2013 (Jan-Sep) 420,610,626

First Quantum Minerals Year Amount paid (K)

2010 156,550,312
2011 260,106,930
2012 805,281,052
2013 (Jan-Sep) 419,990,074

Mr Speaker, the two companies were generally tax compliant during the period under discussion. However, Lumwana Mine was not compliant in the submission of income tax returns for the periods 2009/2010 and 2011/2012.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, Kansanshi Mining Plc and First Quantum Minerals are owned by the same shareholders.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Further, there is a transfer pricing system which is being used by the two mines, resulting in First Quantum Minerals avoiding tax. What is the Government doing to ensure that First Quantum Minerals continues to pay tax?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, as a Government, we have a duty to ensure that every mining house that we grant a mining licence pays tax independently. These licences are given to individual mines and the issue of transfer pricing will not be tolerated by our Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, I am one of those who believed the PF promises of bringing economic empowerment back to Zambians. Hon. Minister, our mines have no local shareholders, and yet the land that is being mined, in thousands of hectares, is Zambian. Land and investment in machinery is all it takes to develop the mines in this country. Therefore, what plans, if any, has the PF Government got to create local ownership of mines so that we have direct control along with our investor colleagues?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, it is the PF Government’s intention to ensure that
Zambians have a stake in the mining operations which should arise from an investment portfolio created by the mining houses. Furthermore, the Government intends to allow the mining houses that already exist to operate in the way they are operating while creating value for the citizenry. Therefore, the issue of investment in the mining sector is not as simplistic as the hon. Member has put it because it calls for huge investment in terms of resources.

Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member was following very carefully when I was reading the written reply on the shareholding, I indicated that the shareholding structure for First Quantum Minerals are Cover Investment and Lamaswala Kwalela Mubita.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, Mr Mubita is a Zambian based in Lusaka. Therefore, it will be interesting to talk to him since he has been to our offices several times.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, indeed, the minerals that sit on our land are quite a valuable commodity. We need to raise resources and revenue from there. My question is more or less a rider on the earlier one which was asked by the hon. Member for Mbala. May I know from the hon. Minister whether the Government has any intentions of acquiring shares in these two mining companies.

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, in terms of stake and participation, the Government has about 15 per cent in several mining operations. The Government has intentions of acquiring shares, including promoting Zambians to have shareholding in these mining houses.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, at least, my colleague is being nationalistic.

M Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether this Government is satisfied with these levels of taxation from these companies. Secondly, does the recurring transfer pricing, which has been reported in your answer, not give credence to the argument that we must go to turnover-based tax that is simpler so that we can get the real value from our mines?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, it is the Government’s interest to ensure that we get the best value for our minerals at all times, including the taxes for the Zambians. So, we will continue to ensure that we rationalise and get the best tax incentives that will benefit the Zambians.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo: Mr Speaker, may I learn from the hon. Minister if there is any likelihood of tax evasions after analysing the two amounts paid by these two companies from 2010 to 2013.

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the two mining houses have different cost structures and tax payment schemes. Therefore, we have no proof of any tax evasion except to indicate that Lumwana Mine was not compliant in terms of submission of Income Tax for the period 2009, 2010, 2011 and 2012 for purposes of tax return.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister informed this House that one of the shareholders of Lumwana Mine is Equinox African Limited. Would the hon. Minister care to inform me and this House at large who owns this company. Is it a Zambian or foreign-owned company?

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, Equinox is owned by Barry Gold of Canada.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, in the previous answer, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that, at the moment, the Government is doing its best to collect tax for this country. I am aware that innovation is not abundantly available to every Government that be at any given time. Therefore, can the hon. Minister confirm that this is the best innovation, in terms of the tax regime that we are applying on the mines, the PF Government can ever come up with at this particular time? Is this the best that it can do?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, in any given situation, taxation is something which is reviewed time and again. Therefore, we cannot say that this is the best we have. We are still reviewing it and when we come across the best, we will apply it. This is an ongoing process and will be dictated by what we pick up and how much we pick from what we see as regards contacting other people on what they are doing in the mining industry. So, at the moment, we cannot say that this is the best system because we are still reviewing the taxation regime in country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, according to the infamous leaked Draft Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, there is a very progressive clause contained in it which states that Zambians will be able to acquire ownership in the mining companies by virtue of having rights over the land. If the hon. Minister is aware of this, does he not think that this Government should quickly ensure that this progressive Draft Constitution is brought to the people of Zambia and approved so that Zambians acquire rights?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, indeed, this is straying a little outside of what we are discussing but, be as it may be, I think the hon. Minister of Justice has taken note.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, in his answer to the question, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that the Government is encouraging the participation of Zambians in the share ownership of the mining companies. Could the hon. Minister indicate what specific measures this Government is going to put in place when these companies are not listed on the Lusaka Stock Exchange.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I would like to go beyond what Hon. Mutati is trying to suggest.

Sir, if you look at our Revised Mineral Resource Development Policy and also refer back to the new Act which will be tabled before this august House, …

Interruptions

Mr Yaluma: … we have tried by all means to ensure that we revise the Mining Policy. This policy catered for any activity within the mining value-chains which starts from prospecting exploration, mining itself as an activity, processing and then disposing of the product.

Sir, what we are saying is that when we looked at the mining policy of 1995, we only looked at ensuring that the investors were covered well, but not look at what the Zambians would benefit. We are now saying that we want to see Zambians participating beyond employment. Therefore, for this to happen, we must ensure that they are protected.

Sir, currently, the banking sector is very traditional and the access to funds is not favourable to Zambians. As a Government, we are looking at means of availing these incentives to the Zambian people who qualify so that they can buy equity or go ahead and start mines of their own.

I thank you, Mr Speaker

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I would like to ask a very direct question. I would like to know when the hon. Minister will bring a Bill on taxation to this House. In my view, I do not think we need to wait for the Constitution because clearly, there is disquiet among Zambians about the taxation and what is due to them. So, when are you going to bring a Bill so we can look at it and pass it expeditiously?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, that will be done before this sitting of Parliament ends.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, since you are still studying the best tax regime, do you not think that windfall tax would be the right way to go, as you promised in your campaigns, or you are trying to become unpopular?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, it is not the right way to go.

I thank you, Sir.

TEACHERS’ SALARY ARREARS

255. Mr Mwanza asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) how much money was owed to the teachers, in form of salary arrears, countrywide as of 30th September, 2013;

(b) how the arrears arose; and

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, a total sum of K45,286,211.04 was owed to teachers in the form of salary arrears countrywide as at 30th September, 2013. These arrears arose from conveyances of staff upgrading and promotions …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Let us have order in the House. The hon. Member for Solwezi Central is having problems listening to the answer because of the loud consultations.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr P. Ngoma: … that take long to be effected resulting in accumulation of arrears as the salary system only allows arrears within the financial year.

Mr Speaker, in 2014, the ministry has budgeted for K33,315,303.00 for dismantling personnel related arrears. This budget provision represents the Government’s commitment to dismantling personnel-related arrears in a phased approach.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm that because of this attitude by the PF Government not to pay people the money that they deserve, it has become very unpopular.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the collective agreement was signed between the union and the Government. Now that the Government has not been paying the teachers, could the hon. Minister confirm that the Government has not been honouring the collective agreement?

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, if you look at the figures that the Government has put in place, they confirm that the Government is eager and willing to pay the teachers the money owed to them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm that the atrocious Grade 7 results are a manifestation of …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Order!{mospagebreak}

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was asking the hon. Minister to confirm whether the atrocious Grade 7 results are a manifestation of the discontent of the teachers due to the non-implementation of the collective agreement by the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education.

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, they are not a manifestation of any ill feeling by our teachers towards the ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

TEACHERS’ HOUSES AND CLASSROOM BLOCK CONSTRUCTION IN MAGOYE CONSTITUENCY

256. Mr Mulomba (Magoye) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when the Government would construct teachers’ houses and classroom blocks at the following schools in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency:

(a) Namaila;

(b) Chijanwa;

(d) Mukuyu;

(e) Nziba;

(f) Munenga;

(g) Mainza;

(h) Simwamba;

(i) Mbiya; and

(j) Matimbya.

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, from 2008 to date, 502 teachers’ houses have been constructed countrywide. Under the 2012 Infrastructure Development Plan, staff houses were planned for construction for the Southern Province. Further, in 2013, funds for the construction of a total of twenty-eight staff houses, twenty-nine classroom blocks, twenty-eight double Ventilated Improved Pit (VIP) Latrines and twenty-eight single VIP latrines have been released.

Sir, this allocation demonstrates the Government’s commitment to improving infrastructure related to teachers’ houses and classroom blocks in a phased approach. However, due to budgetary limitations, construction of teachers’ houses and classroom blocks at Namaila, Chijanwa, Kalama, Mukuyu, Nziba, Munenga, Mainza, Simwaba, Mbiya and Matimbya in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency will be considered in future infrastructure plans.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulomba: Mr Speaker, before I raise my follow-up question, let me correct the hon. Minister, for records purposes, on the names of the schools in question. They are Namaila, Chijanwa, Kalama, Mukuyu, Nziba, Munenga, Mainza, Simwaba, Mbiya and Matimbya. The hon. Minister needs to be very specific on when the resources to put up infrastructure at these schools will be available. I stay in the constituency. If he has never been to these schools, he should know that the situation is very pathetic.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the sentiments expressed by Hon. Mulomba are shared by the ministry, but the bottom line is that as much as we would like to do all these works in Magoye, we are constrained by the funds available. Therefore, what the hon. Deputy Minister has just indicated is a drop in a very big ocean, but we are encouraging the Office of the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) in Magoye to look at this list as it prepares the infrastructure plan for Magoye and the province.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, when is the hon. Minister going to avail to this House the ministry’s infrastructure development plan for 2014?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, that is a very good question coming from Hon. Mbewe and I must congratulate him for it. That is the spirit in which he should be asking questions.

Laughter

Dr Phiri: I am grateful for that question because it reminds us that before April, 2014, we must provide an indication of what we are going to do in the various districts of the country. I, therefore, thank the hon. Member for reminding us.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what happened to the funding that was supposed to go towards infrastructure development in so many constituencies in 2011, 2012 and 2013. This is taking into account that his ministry circulated the infrastructure development plan for all the constituencies, but nothing has happened. Is it a confirmation that the Ministry of Finance did not release the money for these projects?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that the money was released, but it was late in December, 2013. As I speak, this money is in the various accounts of the offices of the DEBS.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, we understand the constraints that the ministry is facing. However, Mukuyu School in Magoye Constituency was in the news recently as having failed to open Grade 1 classes for two years running now. Would the hon. Minister not consider this an urgent case so that the languishing children at Mukuyu School can be assisted.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, this is why I began by siding with Hon. Mulomba because we understand the plight of school children in that constituency. Directives have been given to the provincial education office and the DEBS to do what they can and give the headquarters the bill of quantities so that we can quickly alleviate the suffering of our children in these schools. I am yet to check what has been done as a result of the bill of quantities being forwarded to the office of the Permanent Secretary. I will get back to Hon. Mulomba. If it means apologising to our people, I will get back to the House.

Thank you, Sir.

SMES ENGAGED IN THE EXPORT INDUSTRY

257. Mr Simbao (Senga Hill) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a) what the total number of small and medium scale enterprises (SMEs) engaged in the export industry was as of 30th September, 2013; and

(b) what products were manufactured by the SMEs.

The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Siamunene): Mr Speaker, according to preliminary statistics from the 2010 Economic Census, there were 11,614 registered SMEs and approximately 41 per cent of these are engaged in the export of goods and services. These SMEs export to most of Zambia’s major markets, including the Common Market for East and Southern Africa (COMESA) and Southern African Development Community (SADC) regions. However, I wish to indicate that currently, there is no clearly agreed definition of what an SME is which can form a basis of a comprehensive mechanism to capture data on the basis of the size of the firm and destination of exports.

Mr Speaker, you may wish to note that the current process of revising the Companies Act, which should be soon coming to this House for enactment, is trying to address, among others, the definition of an SME which will be legally binding. Therefore, the precise information on SMEs’ participation into the export markets and other related information will be addressed.

Mr Speaker, SMEs are basically engaged in the manufacturing and construction sectors. Under the sub-sectors, the products produced are as follows:

Sub-sector Products

Agro-processing:

Animal sausages, meat, quails, poultry and eggs

Crops cooking oil, vegetable and fruit processing, fresh vegetables, baby porridges, processed corn, mealie meal, rice, flour and potato snacks, tomato and chilli, spicy sauces, animal feed, peanut butter and honey

Other foods concentrated juice and ready to drink juice

Carpentry school desks and home and office furniture

Textile batiks, protection clothing, uniforms and traditional outfits

Cosmetics hair products, body creams and soaps

Health and hygiene cleaning materials and service, sanitary products, napkins and towels, shampoos and scoring powder

Crafts and jewellery, home décor wooden crafts, wooden images and metal crafts

Cements products blocks, pavers and pillars

Metal fabrication window and door frames

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, in asking this question, I wanted to know the revenue realised from the export sector because while the hon. Minister has mentioned COMESA, I am aware that we are also a member of the African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA) which is targeting a very big market of America. However, I have not heard anything in that direction and that is why I was interested in the SME’s involved in export. What is the revenue realised in this 41 per cent the hon. Minister has mentioned here?

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker, indeed, we should have done much more research than that. In addition to giving the number of SME’s that are involved in export, we should also have given the figures in terms of the actual exports, but we do not have that information with us although it is available at our offices.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) is one of the largest export markets for any Non Tariff Barriers (NTBs). What is the Government doing to ease the exports into the DRC, particularly, for SME’s?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, there are pending negotiations to facilitate the smoothening of trade between the DRC and ourselves. I am glad to say that a lot of progress has been made to engage the two countries so that the bilateral agreements which are going to consolidate and facilitate the trade can be concluded.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, I will start by disagreeing with the hon. Minister that the entire Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry has no definition for an SME. I think the hon. Minister must go back and look his officers in the eye and tell them to give him a definition. It is there.

Mr Speaker, when the PF Government came into power, the then hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry pronounced that it would not be exporting any copper unless it was processed in Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Member: Correct.

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, I am, therefore, very shocked that the hon. Minister has listed all exports by SME and none of them is a copper product.

Laughter

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, is it not that the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry is sitting on its laurels. Can we have an answer from the hon. Minister. Is the Government not concerned that none of the SMEs’ exports is a copper product, not even a copper ingot or even blister copper of some sort? I need a comforting answer from the hon. Minister.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, beneficiation of copper and value-addition continues to be our hope for industrialisation and job creation and the fact that we are not yet there does not mean we are not committed to ensuring that this happens. Once this happens, this country will be transformed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there are any incentives that are given to SMEs, especially those which would want to go into copper production, by-products of copper or any other, so that we have many, especially those that are interested in export.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, there are no special incentives that have been designed specifically for SMEs but, obviously, those that are applying in the designated places such as the Multi-Facility Economic Zones (MFEZs) will also qualify for these benefits. I must say that the Government has taken steps to facilitate and help the SMEs by securing some money which is being disbursed through the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) on concessionary terms in comparison to what is obtaining on the market. This is just to help out.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that the Government is currently trying to review the law with regard to SMEs. Are there any legal impediments to the promotion and growth of SMEs currently?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, there are no legal impediments as such, but we would like to ensure that their interests are legalised so that they begin to have legal status so as to claim that which is rightly due to them. We realise that countries such as India have developed to where they are because of the enhancement of SME’s. So, they will continue to be a major factor in our economic development and, as such, obviously, to formalise their existence and to give them a legal status will go a long way in ensuring that they take their rightful place in the economy of the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he did say that those SME’s that will operate from the special economic zones will benefit from tax incentives. Is he not aware that the conditionalities in these MFEZs are so prohibitive and that none of the SMEs will be able to operate from those zones?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, our sincere hope is that there must be growth in the SMEs so that they look at the larger picture. They should focus on a vision that, at one stage, they should be able to qualify to go into those areas. I must say that we have seen some of these SMEs going to very respectable commercial and economic entities. To answer your question, hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central, we should encourage the SMEs to grow to those levels where they will be entitled to the same incentives.

I thank you.

258. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Health:
(a) why construction of staff houses at Ndoka Bridge Clinic in Kalabo Central Parliamentary Constituency had stalled;

(b) when the construction would resume;

(d) what the time frame for completion of the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, Ndoka Health Post is among the eighteen health posts that were supposed to be constructed under the labour-based contracts in 2010. However, works stalled due the budget line being exhausted. The Ministry of Health has since financed the project and the contractor mobilised and moved to site on 30th January, 2014.

Sir, the contractor is Mr Melu and he has made meaningful progress on the project. The works on the staff house are at window level and the contractor is preparing to put the ring beam. The works for the VIPs have also commenced. They are supposed to be completed in the first week of April, 2014. The total cost for the project is K86,000.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, this is the second time that this project has received funding. What surety or guarantee is the Government giving to ensure that the project does not fail like it failed before?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the infrastructure officer in the Western Province is on top of things and will make sure that this project does not fail. Supervision is on-going.

I thank you, Sir.

HEALTH PROJECTS’ IMPLEMENTATION IN CHIPILI DISTRICT

259. Mr Mwila asked the Minister of Health:

(a) when the implementation of the 2012 and 2013 health projects in Chipili District would commence;

(b) what had caused the delay in commencing project implementation; and

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, currently, there are two projects that are running under Chipili Constituency, namely:

(a) construction of staff house at Musonda Falls Rural Health Centre under the 2012 Infrastructure Operational Plan (IOP); and

(b) construction of a maternity wing at Luminu Rural Health Centre under the 2013 IOP.
Mr Speaker, as regards progress, the staff house at Musonda Falls Rural Health Centre has been roofed and plastered and is nearing completion. The project is expected to be completed this year.

Mr Speaker, as for the maternity wing at Luminu, the project was planned to be constructed through community mobilisation. Through sensitisation carried out at community level, the community has since mobilised the requisite sand, stones and bricks in order that the project may commence.

Mr Speaker, the delayed commencement of the project is mainly due to the delay in the release of funding for the project. To date, the Ministry of Health is awaiting the release of funds towards this project.

Sir, as regards preventing similar delays in future, the ministry has considered offering all future contracts only as full contracts. This has an extra economic cost attached and also does not foster a spirit of ownership. However, we must state that we will still encourage community participation only as defined by the Ministry of Health, for example, participation in planning to enhance partnership.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I want to find out from the hon. Minister when the contractor to construct the maternity wing at Luminu Rural Health Centre will be picked so that I can inform my people about it after the House adjourns.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the contractor will be picked once the funds have been released. Once we have received the funds, we will start the process of picking the contractor.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister indicate whether the plan for Chipili is an integral part of a national plan and, if so, has he shared that with hon. Members of Parliament or is he intending to so that all of us keep track of the plans of the Government with regard to health facility delivery?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the IOPs for 2012 and 2013 were distributed. The IOP for 2014 is being finalised and will be distributed to all hon. Members of Parliament once they are ready.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, Chipili is very close to Luwingu District. In the same breath, the Luapula and Northern provinces are in the same lot in as far as the 650 health post infrastructure construction is concerned. Talking about Chipili, with regard to infrastructure development, is it possible for the hon. Minister of Health to indicate when the contractor who is working on that lot will be in Chipili?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, on 25th February, 2014, we will be launching the construction of the first health post in Luapula Province and the same contractor will construct all the health posts in the province.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

REGIONAL POLICE HEADQUARTERS IN NORTH-WESTERN PROVINCE

260. Mr Mwanza asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) when the Government would construct a modern regional police headquarters in the North-Western Province; and

(b) when the Government would establish police posts at Mukumbi Turn-off and Chovwe in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mrs Mwamba): Mr Speaker, due to accelerated economic activities in Solwezi and other parts of the North-Western Province, arising mainly from mining activities, there has been a marked increase in population which has, in turn, given rise to incidences of crime.

Mr Speaker, in view of this, the Government is considering the North-Western Province as the next priority for constructing a bigger and modern regional police headquarters to provide adequate police services and enhanced security in the province.

Mr Speaker, the provincial command has since been instructed to secure a suitable piece of land while resources are being mobilised for this purpose.

Sir, the construction of police posts at Mukumbi Turn-off and Chovwe in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency will be considered in the Budget for 2015.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, the …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, SIM (subscriber identity module) card registration came to an end on 31st January, 2014. Some end-users in Lukulu have registered twice and are still being told to continue registering while others have had their communication services terminated. What is the hon. Minister in charge doing about this? Is he in order to keep quiet when there is a total national disaster in terms of communication?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that due to the fact that the question posed is not relevant to the issues under discussion, you are advised to put it in a written form.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, with regard to the first question, I would like to find out when Solwezi will have the said modern police station. Personally, I am not satisfied with the answer that has been given. It is true that we have seen unprecedented levels of people coming to the North-Western Province in search of employment. However, when you see where people go to lodge complaints when they face any problems, it is pathetic. This is the only province that does not have a regional police station.

With regard to part (b) of the question, Mr Speaker, I want the hon. Minister to know that in this area, people fight over beer, women and over anything. This is very serious. Therefore, we need the Government to make an effort to resolve this and ensure that a police post is established at Mukumbi Turn-off.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Minister for Home Affairs, please, emphasise what you said in your answer.

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, I have heard the concerns of the hon. Member of Parliament and that is why I said in my answer to part (b) of the question that the allocation for the construction of the police post he yearns to have in his area will be constructed in next year’s Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, in many places, police posts are constructed by communities and, in some cases, using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). May I take advantage of this question to find out when the Government policy shifted from providing furniture to police posts that are constructed using public initiative.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, there has been no change of policy with regard to the police posts that are constructed by the initiative of hon. Members of Parliament in their various constituencies. However, the challenge has been that some hon. Members of Parliament, together with their communities, have embarked on these projects without consulting the Zambia Police Force. We have been encouraging the hon. Members of Parliament to engage the police so that they plan together when they wish to undertake such projects. This is to ensure that when the structure is completed, we are ready to deploy officers to the station, knowing very well that furniture and everything else that is needed is provided. That has been the challenge.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Perhaps, to clarify further, when you are aware that a police post has been constructed, will you furnish it?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, that is the reason I said that we have not changed the policy. We can come in to provide that, but there is usually a delay in providing that furniture which is as a result of this non-consultation from the inception of the project.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I just want to find out from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs the reason behind the non-furnishing of existing police stations if the Zambia Police Force is able to provide furniture and has the resources because most of the police stations have no furniture.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I think that I made this point very clear. Indeed, there are some police posts and stations which do not have furniture and we are still planning on how we can provide furniture to some of these stations, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kampyongo: … but if his question is connected to what Hon. Lubinda asked earlier, there is a process that entails that when you construct a police station, first of all, it must be gazetted. We must take ownership of that police station so that, that property becomes Government property, and this process takes a bit of time. That is why I am saying that hon. Members of Parliament should ensure that before they embark on such projects, they bring the ministry on board.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the people of Milenge did exactly what the hon. Minister has said. They contacted the provincial command in 2006 with a view of constructing a police post and permission was granted. However, from 2006 to date, there has been no furniture provided. Following your cross-country kind of answer, may I know when Milenge will be provided with a suitable …

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, is Hon. Mwansa Mbulakulima in order to go about talking about Milenge and his constituency without mentioning the fact that he is aware that the constituency that is keeping him, at the moment, which is Kabwata Constituency, built a police post after having consulted the police command and referred the matter to police headquarters and the Ministry of Home Affairs? Even after that police post was completed, the police still insisted that the community must provide furniture. Is he in order not to include that in his question?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member for Chembe is definitely in order because he was concentrating on his constituency.

You may continue, Hon. Mbulakulima.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I do agree that I am a tenant of that man and, indeed, he is supplementing my question in that these two constituencies went through the normal channel …

Hon. Opposition Members: Which ones?

Mr Mbulakulima: Kabwata and Chembe, which is in Milenge. However, it has been over seven years since this happened.

Hon. Opposition Members: Seven years?

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, when will the Zambia Police Force provide furniture to these institutions?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, you may answer that and I hope you will be gracious enough to touch on Kabwata in your answer.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, the issue of providing furniture at these police posts and stations depends on availability of funds. As the hon. Member for Chembe indicated, since 2006, this problem has been there. We came into power two-and-a half years ago. Even during the MMD reign, there were still challenges of funding. Therefore, as funds become available, we will carry out countrywide furnishing of police stations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, furnishing of police stations and police posts is critical. Coupled with is the issue of communication in police stations and posts. Most of these police stations do not have means of communication even at the reception and enquiries desks. We used to have police emergency lines being advertised but, of late, this has since stopped. When will these police stations and posts be provided with the means of communication?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The question under consideration restricted itself to the North-Western Province modern regional police headquarters and police posts at Mukumbi Turn-off and Chovwe in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency.

Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, if you have a bonus answer, you may, please, provide it.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, we are discussing with some co-operating partners in order to acquire that type of equipment for our police force.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, hon. Minister, in your response, you stated that as soon as funds are available, furniture will be procured for many of these police stations. I would like to find how your programme in relation to when you will start providing this furniture is? When will the funds be available?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, we will consider that in the next Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

NYIMBA/KATETE ROAD REHABILITATION

261. Mr Mutelo asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the Government would rehabilitate the road from Nyimba to Katete District along the border between Zambia and Mozambique.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr M. H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the Government is already rehabilitating the road from Chipembi in Nyimba District via Matonje, Mumbi/Mwanjabantu, Nyanje up to Kagoro in Katete District along the border between Zambia and Mozambique.

I thank you, Sir.

CHOVWE, WAMAFWA AND IFUMBA AREAS’ ROAD INFRASTRUCTURE

262. Mr Mwanza asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) when the road from Wamafwa to Ifumba in Chovwe area and a permanent bridge on the Chovwe River would be constructed;

(b) when the Government officers last visited Chovwe, Wamafwa and Ifumba areas to inspect the road infrastructure; and

(c) what their findings and recommendations on the status of the roads were.

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the construction of a road from Wamafwa to Ifumba in Chovwe area and a permanent bridge on the Chovwe River is not included among projects to be worked on in 2014.

Sir, the road and bridge will be worked on depending on the needs of the Solwezi District Council which has to prioritise these works in its planning for inclusion in subsequent road sector annual work plans.

Mr Speaker, there has been no detailed assessment or inspection of the road conducted by Government officers in recent years. However, the Road Development Agency (RDA) will, in collaboration with the Solwezi District Council, carry out an inspection of the road and the crossing points in the second quarter of 2014 in order to ascertain the rehabilitation works required.

Sir, since there has been no detailed assessment or inspection of the road conducted by Government officers in recent years, there are no findings and recommendations on the status of the road to report on.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I feel extremely disappointed on behalf of the people of the North-Western Province …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Mwanza: … and Solwezi West in particular. I am very disappointed that a Government cannot send officers despite several requests and reminders by my office. For the ministry to tell me that it has not assessed the road to ascertain its rehabilitation requirements, that is to tell me that the people living in that area are not Zambians?

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Mwanza: This is wrong and I do not like it …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I was still waiting for the question.

Mr Mwanza indicated dissent.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, there appears to be some kind of policy mix up, perhaps, with regard to who should be responsible for the construction of trunk roads, feeder roads and access roads. Is it the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication or the Ministry of Local Government and Housing? Is it possible to have a very clear policy direction with regard to who is responsible for what kind of roads because it appears that there are serious problems with regard to who is responsible for the construction of various roads?

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I really wanted the person who asked the question to make a follow up and I am equally disappointed because I was eager to respond to him.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

May you, please, answer the question.

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, it is very clear that there are some roads which were worked on by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. Even the road we are talking about was supposed to be prioritised by the local authority with the help of the area hon. Member of Parliament because he is supposed to see what is happening in his constituency and follow the right channels to seek redress so that this working Government can act. There is no mix up of policies. It is clear that there are roads which the Ministry of Transport Works, Supply and Communication works on and there are some roads which are worked on by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. It is clear.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, my concern is that we should minimise causes of high blood pressure.

Sir, the hon. Member of Parliament for Solwezi West has clearly stated that he has made presentations over this matter. Can the hon. Minister of Works and so on clearly state, …

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: … now that the ministry knows …

Mr Bwalya rose on a point of order.

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: … that there is this miscommunication, what will be done about it because the area hon. Member of Parliament has already made known the need for this road to be assessed through the right channels? What will be done about the knowledge on the state of this road that has been imparted through the efforts made by the area hon. Member of Parliament?

The Deputy Chairperson: I am calling the hon. Minister of Transport Works, Supply and Communication and not ‘and so on’.

Laughter

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I have stated that we are sending people in the second quarter of this year to assess the road. The people are going there …

Hon. Opposition members: Which people?

Mr M. H. Malama: The officers are going there to look at the problem which is affecting Hon. Mwanza.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I thank you for granting me this point of order. The question I had asked the hon. Minister was if he can clearly indicate the type of roads which the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication should be responsible for. I am saying so because we have various categories of roads such as trunk roads, feeder roads and access roads. Can I know which roads the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication is supposed to work on and those which are supposed to be worked on by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. Is he in order to just say that it is clear without stating how clear the policy is?

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Minister will clarify that as he answers the question by the hon. Member for Senanga.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister know that he is putting this nation at risk by failing to supervise those engineers who are supposed to ensure that bridges and roads are inspected in those provinces?

Mr M. H. Malama: Mr Speaker, we do not fail to supervise these engineers. With regard to the point of order, I would like to state that the RDA works on trunk roads and the Ministry of Local Government and Housing works on district or township roads.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication and Chief Whip (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_________

The House adjourned at 1727 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 13th February, 2014.

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