DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 19th February, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

MOVEMENT FOR MULTI-PARTY DEMOCRACY WHIP 

Mr Deputy Speaker:  Hon. Members, I have received communication from the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) to the effect that Hon. Kapembwa N. Simbao, Member of Parliament for Senga Hill Parliamentary Constituency, has been elected MMD Whip in the House to replace Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, Member of Parliament for Nalikwanda.

Thank you.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

LIVINGSTONE INTER-PARLIAMENTARY GAMES

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that, in our continued efforts to enhance bilateral and Parliamentary relations, the National Assembly of Zambia will host the Parliament of Zimbabwe in football and netball games for our hon. Members of Parliament. The games are also intended to accelerate relations among the hon. Members from the two Parliaments. The games will be held in Livingstone, the tourist capital, on Saturday, 8th March, 2014. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: I, therefore, would like to call upon all the hon. Members to take these games seriously. The training sessions for these games will begin on Friday, 21st February, 2014, at 1500 hours at the Zamsure Sports Complex. The captains for football and netball are Hon. Stephen Kampyongo and Hon. Berina K. Kawandami, respectively.

Hon. Members will be advised of other logistics in due course.

Thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

AFRICAN UNION 22ND ORDINARY SESSION SUMMIT

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Simuusa): Mr Speaker, I have the privilege to report to the House that His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Sata, led a delegation to the 22nd Ordinary Session of the Assembly of Heads of State and Government of the African Union (AU) that was held in Addis Ababa, Ethiopia, from 30th to the …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Simuusa: … 31st January, 2014.

Sir, the summit was attended by Heads of State and representatives from the fifty-four member States of the AU. His Excellency the President was accompanied by the First Lady, Dr Christine Kaseba, Hon. Wilbur Simuusa, MP, Minister of Foreign Affairs, Hon. Robert Sichinga, MP, Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, Hon. Keith Mukata,  MP, Deputy Minister of Justice, Mr Joseph Akafumba, Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Justice, Her Excellency, Mrs Susan Sikaneta, Zambia’s Ambassador to Ethiopia, and other senior Government officials.

Mr Speaker, apart from the AU Summit, His Excellency the President also participated in the Extra-ordinary Summit of the Heads of State and Government of the Southern African Development Community (SADC) held on 30th January, 2014. In addition, His Excellency the President held bilateral discussions with lead officials from the Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO), the Roll-Back Malaria Programme and the New Partnership for Africa’s Development Agency (NEPAD).

Sir, this House may wish to note that the 22nd Ordinary Session of the Assembly of the AU was officially opened by His Excellency, Mr Hailemariam Dessalegn, the Prime Minister of the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia, in his capacity as outgoing Chairperson of the AU before handing over to His Excellency, Mr Mohamed Ould Abdel Aziz, President of the Islamic Republic of Mauritania, as the incoming Chairperson of the AU for 2014.

Mr Speaker, during the opening ceremony, the Ethiopian premier announced that the theme of the summit was, “2014 Year of Agriculture and Food Security, Marking the 10th Anniversary of the Adoption of the Comprehensive Africa Agriculture Development Programme (CAADP).” He noted that more AU member States were allocating 10 per cent of their national budgets to the agriculture sector, thus, contributing to the transformation of agriculture on the continent.

Sir, during the proceedings of the assembly, the House may wish to learn that the Republic of Madagascar was welcomed back into the family of the AU after five years of diplomatic isolation. The assembly also renamed the large conference hall at the AU Commission the Nelson Rolihlahle Mandela Conference Hall, in recognition of his contribution to the struggle for the liberation of Africa.

Mr Speaker, you will recall that last year, the assembly adopted a significant decision to establish the African Capacity for Immediate Response to Crisis (ACIRC). Member States pledged their support and readiness to contribute to the interim mechanism. The assembly, therefore, welcomed the follow-up steps taken by the AU Commission to assess the status of the operationalisation of the African Stand-by Force (ASF) and its Rapid Deployment Capability (RDC) as well as the development of proposals for the operationalisation of the ACIRC. 

Sir, the House may wish to note that Zambia expressed reservations on the operationalisation of the ASF as the initiative did not seem to have comprehensively dealt with the issue of territorial sovereignty and a detailed modus operandi of such as a force. In this regard, it was Zambia’s view that until issues were clear, the country would find it difficult to participate in the initiative. 

Mr Speaker, an important highlight of the summit was its endorsement of the elections and appointment of ten members of the Peace and Security Council of the AU for a two-year term. These were Burundi and Chad for the Central African Region, Ethiopia and Tanzania for the East African Region, Libya for the Northern Region, Namibia and South Africa for the Southern African Region and Gambia, Guinea and Niger for the West African Region.

Sir, the summit also considered the Report of the Commission on Peace and Security which highlighted a number of political situations on the continent. It expressed satisfaction with the continued progress in the consolidation of peace and reconciliation in the Comoros, Liberia and Cote d’Ivoire.

Sir, the assembly welcomed the conclusion of the process of transition and restoration of constitutional order in Madagascar; the conduction of legislative elections in Guinea, in September, 2013; the positive developments in the situation in Tunisia; and the commitment of the various Tunisian stakeholders to foster consensus and dialogue with the view to bring in the on-going transition to a successful conclusion.

Mr Speaker, the assembly also noted the progress that had continued to be recorded in Somalia and the advances made in the implementation of the Regional Co-operative Initiative for the Elimination of the Lord’s Resistance Army (RCI-LRA).

Sir, over and above, the assembly expressed satisfaction at the positive developments in the situation in the eastern part of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) following the end of the M23 rebellion and the signing of declarations by the DRC Government and the M23 in Nairobi in December, 2013. The assembly, however, expressed concern on the eruption of violent conflict in South Sudan on the 15th of December, 2013, and the grave consequences inherent in this situation for both the country and the region at large. 

Mr Speaker, the assembly also expressed concern about the situation in the Central African Republic (CAR). It underscored the need for more sustained effort to overcome the difficulties the peace process between Eretria and Ethiopia is faced with and the need to normalise the relations between Djibouti and Eritrea.

Sir, lastly, in considering the report on peace and security, the summit reaffirmed its support for the Libyan Government, expressed its solidarity with the Egyptian people and strongly condemned the acts of terrorism being perpetrated in the country. 

Mr Speaker, you will recall that last year, the assembly expressed regret that the request by the AU to the United Nations (UN) Security Council to defer the proceedings initiated against President Omar al-Bashir of the Sudan, in accordance with Article 16 of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court (ICC) on deferral of cases by the UN Security Council, had not been acted upon.

Sir, the assembly, thus, reiterated its unflinching commitment to combating impunity and promoting democracy, the rule of law and good governance throughout the entire continent in conformity with the Constitutive Act of the AU. It also expressed its deep disappointment that the request to the UN Security Council to defer the proceedings initiated against President Kenyatta and the Deputy President of Kenya by Kenya that was supported by the AU, had also not been acted upon.

Mr Speaker, with regard to matters of development of the continent, the assembly stressed the need to address issues of unemployment and poverty and, hence agreed to the organisaiton of an Extraordinary Summit of Heads of State and Government of the AU to assess the progress in implementation of the 2004 Ouagadougou Declaration and plan of action on employment and poverty alleviation. All member States were, thus, invited to effectively participate in the proposed Extraordinary Summit. The assembly welcomed and approved the proposal by the Federal Democratic Republic of Ethiopia to establish, under the auspices of the AU, an African Centre for Disease Control and Prevention (ACDCP) to be located in Ethiopia.

Sir, while noting that climate change continued to hinder our development efforts, the assembly also endorsed the establishment of an African Working Group on Desertification and Sustainable Land Management in order to promote sustainable development on the continent.

Mr Speaker, the summit also considered the Report of the Committee of Ten on the UN Security Council Reforms and requested the committee to endeavour to reach out to the highest political levels for the purpose of garnering the necessary political will in support of the African Common Position and reiterated its call for Africa to continue to speak with one voice and cohesively on all issues relating to the UN Security Council Reforms and related matters. 

Mr Speaker, the assembly also reaffirmed its strong commitment to the Ezulwini Consensus and Sirte Declaration that contain the African Common Position on the reform of the UN Security Council. It also encouraged the African permanent representatives of the Committee of Ten to the UN to continue intensifying efforts towards building alliances in support of the African Common Position with diverse interest groups engaged in the intergovernmental negotiations.

Mr Speaker, this august House will recall that last year, the assembly took note of the progress made in the development of the AU Agenda 2063 and endorsed the recommendation by the Executive Council calling upon the AU Commission to present the Framework Document for consideration by the AU policy organs at the January, 2014 Summit and the final Agenda 2063 for adoption in July, 2014. 

Sir, to that effect, the 22nd Assembly adopted the Common African Position on the post 2015 Development Agenda and requested the High Level Committee that was formed to sensitise and co-ordinate the activities of African leaders and members of the High Level Panel as well as build regional and intercontinental alliances on the Common African Position on the post 2015 Development Agenda. They were urged to meet as soon as possible to launch the Common African Position in Ndjamena, Chad. 

Sir, with the foregoing, the assembly endorsed the articulation of the African Development Goals that are consistent with the existing continental frameworks to serve as milestones for tracking and monitoring progress towards the Agenda 2063. The assembly encouraged the AU Commission to pursue its efforts in enlisting the inputs into the Agenda 2063 of all Africans, including those in the Diaspora, and to engage member States to submit their written inputs before the end of April, 2014. It also mandated the AU Commission, the Economic Commission for Africa and the African Development Bank to work on the articulation of the African Development Goals in the context of the Agenda 2063 and be consistent with its stated objectives. 

Mr Speaker, regarding the decision of the assembly on boosting intra-African trade, the assembly mandated the Ministers of Trade to hold an extraordinary …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can I have order on my left, please.

Mr Simuusa: … session to consider and adopt a work plan on negotiating modalities and principles towards the effective launch of the Continental Free Trade Area (CFTA) negotiations in 2015 which will be presented through the High Level Committee on Trade to the July, 2014 Summit. 

Sir, it is worth noting that Zambia highlighted the important role that trade played in developing African economies. It also stressed the need to improve trade ties within the continent in order to grow Africa’s capacities and induce economic growth. 

Mr Speaker, in the same vein, the assembly endorsed the Kuwait Declaration and the eight resolutions adopted by the 3rd Africa-Arab Summit. It also expressed gratitude to the Emir of Kuwait for the initiative to grant concessionary loans to African countries amounting to US$1 billion in the coming five years through the Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development. The funds are intended for use to finance investments and insurance in Africa with emphasis on infrastructure through co-operation and co-ordination with the World Bank and other international institutions. The assembly welcomed the introduction of an annual prize of US$1 million to be allocated by the State of Kuwait for development research in Africa under the auspices of the Kuwait Scientific Development Institutions. 

Mr Speaker, this august House may wish to note that the assembly decided that the 23rd Ordinary Session of the Assembly of Heads of State and Government of the AU would be held in Malabo in Equatorial Guinea from the 26th to the 27th of July, 2014.

Sir, in conclusion, the 22nd Ordinary Session of the Assembly of Heads of State and Government of the AU was closed on 31st January, 2014 with a speech from the Chairperson of the AU and President of the Islamic Republic of Mauritania, Mr Mohamed Ould Abdel Aziz. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, going by what is obtaining where some country called our leadership, “idiot of the week”, in another instance, the name of a former minister was proposed for a certain position, but rejected and we do not see any State visits or Presidents visiting our country, how much influence do we have in the region, sub-region or the entire continent?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is referring to reports which I have not received. What I can say is that, as Zambia, we still have influence because we are being recognised worldwide. In the meetings I have attended, it has been mentioned that we are champions of peace, security and stability. Due to that, we actually command a lot of respect out there. As Minister of Foreign Affairs, I have been approached by other countries for the voice of Zambia to be heard on certain situations. In fact, the voice of Zambia is sought on given situations. In this regard, the influence is still there. If I had time, I would have given specific examples where we have influenced decisions and the course of events in the international arena.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister made reference to issues that are happening in the Central African Republic, the involvement of the M23 in the Eastern part of the DRC and, indeed, the eruption of conflict in the Sudan and South Sudan. May I find out from the hon. Minister whether the African leaders are, indeed, discussing and seriously trying to address the root causes of this conflict, especially in the Eastern part of the DRC?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that, as Africa, the seriousness to resolve our conflict is visible. I can report, here, that the issues in South Sudan, the Central African Republic and the Eastern DRC are actively being discussed under the International Conference of Great Lakes Region (ICGR) and the Southern African Development Community (SADC), to which we belong.

Mr Speaker, I mentioned in my statement that we have just re-admitted Madagascar into the AU after it mandated SADC to make sure that Madagascar came back to constitutional reform. The elections were successfully held and the issue of Madagascar, under SADC, was actually sorted out. That is a very good reflection on the resolve in Africa without going to external forces or other people to aid in resolving internal issues. The same applies to the M23. That problem, as you are aware, has been sorted out. The declaration was signed in Kenya and so was the Kampala Dialogue. At the moment, South Sudan is receiving active attention. In saying that, I just wanted to underscore the fact that I see a more united force in Africa with regard to her dealing with conflict and that positive results are actually being seen.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, I am aware that one of the issues that the Heads of State discussed was the transformation of the Pan African Parliament (PAP) into an organ with full legislative powers. May I find out from the hon. Minister what the decision of the Heads of State was and why there is resistance and, indeed, what the position of Zambia is in this regard?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, in reference to the previous question by the hon. Member, I talked about the Africa Standby Force (ASF) being a force that the African leaders have agreed can be created for a quick response to any crisis in Africa. This means that if something happened to African neighbouring countries, an ASF, funded and managed by Africa would respond to such things. The reservation of Zambia was that this force did not take into account the issues of territorial integrity and sovereignty.

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I do not think that the hon. Minister is answering my question. My question was about the legislative powers of PAP that are contained in the Constitutive Act of the establishment of the AU. The hon. Minister is talking about the ASF which I did not raise in my question. Is he in order to do that?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, you can continue in light of that point of order. 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I wish the hon. Member was more patient because I was actually coming to that point. I was actually trying to use an easier scenario in order to answer his question more effectively. The issues that necessitated the creation of the ASF were of territorial sovereignty of African countries. The issue of PAP falls under the same issues of territorial sovereignty. The African leaders raised the question on what its status was. That issue was deferred and it is awaiting further integration of the continent. I can inform you that the Agenda 2063 is actually talking about a United States of Africa (USA), with an integrated Africa both politically and economically. That is not a simple task and it will not happen overnight. Therefore, this issue was also deferred because of the complexity of the sovereignty of each of our African States.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: On whom?

Laughter

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, I thank you for …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Sir, I stand on a very serious point of order. Is Hon. Miyutu, my former Deputy Minister, in order to dress like a Congolese musician in this House? I need your serous ruling, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Miyutu rose.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! I am looking at the hon. Member seriously and I am told that he is actually wearing a jacket.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: So, to that extent, he is in order. 

May the hon. Member for Chavuma continue.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, in a similar line, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Konga: … the African Continent plans to establish or has already established the ASF, and yet we see a lot of man-made strife in countries like Northern Mali, South Sudan, Central African Republic and many other areas. Why are the African countries slow to react to these calamities? Usually, they wait for the UN to intervene before the AU intervenes. Why is it like that?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, in answering that question, I would like to state that the ASF has not yet been established. The decision to establish it was supposed to have been arrived at at the just-ended summit. However, as I earlier said, because of issues of territorial sovereignty, among others, that decision was deferred. However, the will to establish it is very strong for the reasons that the hon. Member has just mentioned. A similar question on why African countries usually have to wait for the UN or, to be specific, western powers and other world powers to come to solve our conflict was asked at the summit. That is the driving force behind the creation of the ASF. Your logic, hon. Member, is actually the logic that is pushing this agenda. I am hoping that, maybe, by the next summit in July, this year, these issues of territorial sovereignty and who shall work on the force can be sorted out and the force operationalised.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Sir, my question has been overtaken by events.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister …

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, you have guided that this House is a mirror, especially to the outside world. The behaviour and, especially, the language of the hon. Members of this House is paramount because we are supposed to be models. This should be shown in the way we dress and even in the way we speak.

Hon. Opposition Member: It is those that side.

Mr Mbulakulima: Yesterday, Mr Speaker, we saw a newspaper headline in which hon. Members of this House were referred to as ‘useless’ by His Excellency the Republican President. Today, ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Again!

Mr Mbulakulima: … again, the Leader of Government Business in the House, His Honour the Vice President, who represents this House and is supposed to be civil in his language and exhibit exemplary behaviour, The Post newspaper, the main headline reads that “Governments cannot be changed like underwear … ”

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, is that Government in order to use such vulgar language in public?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The serious ruling is, as I ruled yesterday, that a lot of things are said outside there. Therefore, let us not bring them into the House.

Continue, hon. Member for Luena.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned something about the International Criminal Court (ICC) vis-a-vis the AU’s opinion on certain people who are cited to appear before it. Recently, I heard, through the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC), that the ICC is considering dropping the case against the Kenyan President, Mr Jomo Kenyatta. Is it not a contradiction that nothing was said about the President of the Sudan? Therefore, I would like to find out if the ICC has some sacred cows.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I cannot issue a statement on issues of that nature, but what I can say is that the African position, which I think you are aware of, is that we, as Africans leaders, took concern of the fact that there was a perceived bias by the ICC in the way it handled cases, especially those that concerned the Africans, hence the request regarding the Kenyan President, his Deputy and the President of the Sudan. So, we are still waiting to get a very comprehensive statement on that. I heard it through the media as well, but I think it would be good to get an official statement before we can comprehensively comment on that issue.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I am aware that African dictators always hide behind the veil of territorial sovereignty when they abuse the rights of the citizens of their respective countries. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures the AU, which has always been a pathetic failure anyway, is taking to ensure that it is pre-emptive in ensuring the upholding of constitutional democracy, the rights of citizens in countries and that countries that are failing to come up with a constitution that will be accepted by the people are forced to adhere to the wishes of the people.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I wish to report that an African Court is being considered and propped up to ensure that, at least, on the African Continent, and backed up by the AU, it can actually address some of the issues as the arise. There is another mechanism, the African Peer Review Mechanism, which is very strong in reviewing African peers so that if there are any issues, such as those which the hon. Member has referred to, the other African countries can come to the aid of African countries in need of assistance. 

However, Mr Speaker, I would like to state that on the issues of integration that I talked about, the AU is encouraging regional integration before we can get to African or continental integration. This means that regional bodies such as SADC, the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS) are being encouraged to integrate so that once we achieve this, we can easily solve territorial sovereignty and other issues at regional level. In turn, this can make it easy to get to the continental sovereignty. So, through these mechanisms, all the issues that come up will be addressed.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata Central): Mr Speaker, let me start by commending the hon. Minister for that well-presented statement. However, I would like to follow it up with a question arising from the influence of Zambia on the continent. 

Sir, it is a well-known fact that that influence emanates partly from the participation of citizens in the various organs of the AU. In 2012, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs of Zambia stopped an election for a position to the Eminent Persons Group (EPG) of the African Peer Review Mechanism because it was to succeed a Zambian who had died, Dr Siteke Mwale. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether that position has now been filled, and if so, whether it has been filled by a Zambian.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I will need to get confirmation on that particular position and come back to the hon. Member. Having said that, I think that we should look at how aggressive and influential we are, as a country, in attaining and filling some of these positions in international organisations. 

Sir, I can, however, report that this is a source of concern because we, in most cases, lose out on positions to East or West Africans and others from other regions of the world. I think that it is important for us, as discussed, to see how we can effectively strategise and ensure that we fill up these positions and put our people as per the requirement. However, as I said earlier, I will get confirmation on the matter raised by the hon. Member for Kabwata.  

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister enlighten the House on the steps that his ministry has taken to ensure that our country benefits maximally from the Kuwait Concessional Loan.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, we will ensure that we are not left out in benefitting from the US$1 billion loan. As a country, we have made steps to access that fund. The Ministry of Finance will communicate the details on the use of the fund. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Minister for his statement in which he indicated the coming back to the AU of Madagascar, which is very gratifying. 

Sir, I would like to learn from the him whether having a free and fair election was the only conditionality for Madagascar, which had elections under a fifty plus one per cent, which the PF is scared of, at the moment, to come back to the club. 

Mrs Limata: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Was that the only conditionality that the Malagasy were given to come back in the club or were there any other such conditionalities as the continuous state of exile of the former President, Mr  Marc Ravalomanana, after the clear-cut win of Mr Hery Rajaonarimampianina, who won the last election, considering that he was actually sponsored by ….

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I think your question is being loaded with a statement. 

Mr Nkombo: … Rajeolina, who is a sworn rival of Marc Ravalomanana? I am sure that the hon. Minister understands what I am saying. 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the only conditionality placed on Madagascar was that it conducts a free, fair and constitutional election, endorsed by its Supreme Court. In doing so, a lot of other players such as Marc Ravalomanana, as you are aware, were barred from standing. 

Therefore, Sir, because the elections were declared free and fair by the Malagasy themselves and SADC, it was established that Madagascar should be brought back to the AU. 

In fact, I can report that even the Office of SADC, which was set up in Madagascar to monitor that country, is being dismantled because the operation is over and there are no further conditions to be met. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I would also like to thank the hon. Minister …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of Order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am compelled to rise on a point of order on the earlier statement given by the hon. Minister of Finance regarding the influence of this country on the continent. 

In raising my point of order, I want to refer to this document featuring His Honour the Vice-President of the Republic, Dr Guy Scott, on page 12, with a headline “Zambia lacks confidence – Dr Guy Scott”. With your permission, Sir, I would like to quote, what he said: 

“Zambia is a bit of a forgotten country in the world. Everyone knows about Zimbabwe because a lot of whites were kicked out of their farms which made big news. Once, we even had a President visiting Zambia saying he was surprised when he landed in Zambia because he thought it would be hotter in Gambia.”

Sir, is the hon. Minister in order to depart from his boss’s sentiments that Zambia is actually a forgotten and non-influential country in the region?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Since the hon. Minister’s boss said it outside the House, we should take what the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs has said here to be the position. 

Hon. Member for Kasempa, you may continue. 

Interruptions{mospagebreak}

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I want to believe that, from now onwards, this will be the trend. Personally, this has been one of the few impressive statements since the Patriotic Front (PF) came into the Government. It is important that when hon. Ministers go out of the country, they come back to brief the country on what took place. 

Sir, the issue of a United States of Africa was quite hot, especially while Muammar al-Gaddafi was still alive. However, the hon. Minister did not mention anything about it. What is the status of the issue at the moment?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member about the issue OF cooling off. However, it has now been revived in earnest. The Agenda 2063, which will be adopted in July, 2014, actually talks about bringing in a United States of Africa. 

Hon. Government Member: 2063?

Mr Simuusa: Yes, 2063. However the challenge now is the sovereignty of each country and the only way to achieve this …

Interruptions 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

We have stopped listening. 

Mr Simuusa: … is through regional integration, which the AU has indicated as the way forward. Actually, the last AU meeting pointed out that a United States of Africa must be achieved. So, it has been revived.  

Mr Speaker, I would also like to take this opportunity to answer Hon. Lubinda’s question. The position has not yet been filled and we shall try our best to ensure that we retain it.  

Prof. Lungwangwa left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Simuusa: To also address Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa’s question, even though he is going out, …

Laughter 

Mr Simuusa: … we are going to build three training colleges with the money that we have acquired from the Kuwait Fund. I am sure that the professor will be happy.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, while we were still out there, one of the publications alleged that our President slapped President Zuma on the head. 

Laughter 

Dr Musokotwane: May I know the circumstances that made our President so angry, if at all it is true?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President was not angry. In fact, His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Sata, and President Jacob Zuma are very good friends. When we walked in, they first hugged each other in greeting. They have this “chimbuya” kind of relationship where they joke and are very friendly with one another. Therefore, the assertion about His Excellency the President being angry is not correct. They are very good friends. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, Zambia was quite advanced under the African Pear Review Mechanism. Could the hon. Minister indicate to the House what the current status under the mechanism is?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, that is a very important question. Through you, can I promise to come back to this House with a comprehensive statement. There was a session dedicated to the African Pear Review Mechanism at the just-ended summit. I, therefore, feel that the results are very important and would wish to come back with a comprehensive statement to properly inform the House to that effect.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, Africa has, in its majority, been asking for two permanent seats at the United Nations Security Council whilst a few of our countries in Africa have been lobbying for one. Would the hon. Minister enlighten the House and the nation at large what the current status is?

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for according me this opportunity to raise this point of order on the hon. Member on the Floor.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member in order to buy a green tie despite your facilitating his exposure by taking him out of the country to, at least, buy things of appropriate taste? He is now looking like a military person. Is he order to come to this House badly dressed?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! Our rules do not state what colour a tie should be. So, the tie he was wearing is acceptable. 

Can the hon. Minister respond to the question.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, in fact, it is called the African Common Position. The state of affairs on the United Nations Security Reforms is that Africa should have two permanent seats as permanent representative. Therefore, if there are one or two deviations, it is not an African common position. Like I said, the African common position agreed with two seats is Ezulwini and Sirte. Therefore, anything apart from that is not the African position.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, there has been an uproar on the International Community regarding the issuance of mining exploration licence in the in the Lower Zambezi Game Park. I would like to find out what the position of our neighbouring countries, especially Zimbabwe and Mozambique, is regarding the issuance of the licence because we share a border.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, that issue is currently in court. I, therefore, think that it is not appropriate to discuss it at the moment.

I thank you, Sir.

________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CHIEFS SIMWATACHELA AND SIPATUNYANA BOUNDARY AND KASIKILI PRIMARY SCHOOL LOCATION

302. Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

(a)    where, on the 1958 Map, the official boundary between Chief Simwatachela and Chief Sipatunyana in Mapatizya Parliamentary Constituency lay; and

(b)    in which chiefdom Kasikili Primary School was located.

The Deputy Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mr Taundi): Mr Speaker, according to the information obtained from the Surveyor-General’s Office, the official boundary between chiefs Siamwatachela and Sipatunyana in Mapatizya Parliamentary Constituency lies along the co-ordinates 17,29852 North and 26,66233 East. This can only be appreciated upon physical visitation of the site.

Sir, Kasikili Primary is located in Chief Sipatunyana’s Chiefdom.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyanda indicated.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

 Do not expect to be waited for if you want to ask a follow-up question. Once I look around and you do not indicate, I move on. Please, do indicate if you have a follow-up question.

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minster has indicated that in order for me to appreciate the co-ordinates, there is a need for a physical visitation. Therefore, when is the ministry going to make this visitation possible?

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, the answer does not mean that the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs is going to carry out a physical inspection. However, if there is, indeed, a very serious dispute, we can be invited to physically go there in order for the local people to appreciate the complexities that surround these boundary disputes.

Mr Speaker, I should mention here that the boundary disputes among chiefdoms have been happening for a very long time. We have tried to visit sites, but even with site visits, the disputes still continue. Therefore, the hon. Member of Parliament will do well to invite the ministry and the two chiefs. Usually, this will just be done through arbitration between the two chiefdoms.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the new maps will be availed.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the House will recall that the issue of boundary maps has been discussed many times in this House. It was found that the boundary maps meant for some chiefdoms where they were to be distributed lacked narratives. Therefore, to use them to resolve the disputes has been very difficult. To improve the situation, we are in discussion with the Ministry of Lands’ Surveyor-General’s Department for us to conduct a proper exercise with narratives. Furthermore, the cost of doing this is astronomical and can only be undertaken when provided for by the Budget.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just referred to arbitration. I wonder whether the ministry has qualified arbitrators or she will look outside and invite people like Dr Kaingu who is a qualified arbitrator.

Laughter

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, yes, arbitration is a skill. The people who are arbitrators go for training. Therefore, when there will be a need for arbitration, we will, indeed, invite qualified arbitrators. However, my ministry has never looked at Dr Kaingu’s Curriculum Vitae (CV) for any consideration. It can only call upon his services when its sees that he has an appropriate CV.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, when did the hon. Minister learn of the chiefdom boundary disputes in these two chiefdoms and what has her ministry done without necessarily waiting for the hon. Members to raise this issue?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, we have a lot of disputes. It is not only in these two chiefdoms. In fact, we have a whole long list of them.

Sir, let me say that resolving disputes is not our everyday activity. It is expensive for us to go round attending to every dispute. We know about it and if it is not causing any problems, we will not interfere. If the hon. Member feels that this dispute is causing a big problem, he should invite us.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister says resolving this issue requires an enormous amount of money. I thought that the creation of her ministry was meant to resolve issues of this nature. Hon. Minister, we have seen the country engaging in a lot of very expensive and unnecessary by-elections. Can the Government not use the money being spent on these by-elections to resolve the boundary disputes?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I will not comment on the issue of by-elections because that is not under my jurisdiction. The hon. Members of Parliament here were availed my terms of reference as Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. The mandate of the ministry is way beyond just dealing with disputes. We are doing our best to change the landscape of this country through chiefdom operations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just indicated that almost all parts of this country have boundary disputes. Today may be peaceful but, tomorrow, this may be a burning issue. Therefore, I would like to find out what the Government’s short and long-term plans are in resolving boundary disputes.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, you will recall that I brought a ministerial statement to this House on the way we are going to use our traditional leaders as custodians of peace and unity, and this programme was launched not too long ago. That programme is part of an attempt to deal with some of these things.

Sir, let me also hasten to say that these disputes have been there since time immemorial and our traditional leaders even had a skill of resolving them. Some of the issues we are talking about are being perpetuated by individuals who just want to bring about disputes around the country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, now that this very useful hon. Member of Parliament has brought this issue before this House, …

Mr Livune: That is right.

Laughter

Mr Hamudulu: … do you still feel that you should be invited when the facts have been laid bare and you are required to undertake that visit?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I am sure that when the hon. Member of Parliament has an opportunity to run a ministry, he will know that there is what is called audit query. I listen to the Parliamentary Committee every day and I hear the Committee asking questions on how public funds were spent and, as such, I will need something to generate my trip.

Mr Livune: Question!

Prof. Luo: Therefore, I would like the hon. Member of Parliament to still send an invitation before I can take that trip.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, I actually want to confirm that I am an arbitrator and there are two others here. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs …

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, what is your question?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, now that you know that there are arbitrators here, do you really need to advertise for their services? Why do you not just put arbitrators together to help you solve this problem?

Laughter

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I have had opportunities in my life to compete for what I think I qualify for. However, the people who evaluate you will always ask for CVs and choose the best candidate. So, please, you can submit your CV and, then, the ministry will pick the best candidate.

I thank you, Sir.

LIBONDA AND KALABO PONTOONS

303. Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    why the pontoon at Libonda in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency had not been repaired for more than two years;

(b)    whether the pontoon service had been withdrawn;

(c)    if not, when the service would resume; and

(d)    when the damaged pontoon at Kalabo would be replaced with a modern one.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr M. H. Malama): Mr Speaker, it is not true that the pontoon is in a state of disrepair. In January, 2012, engines were removed from Libonda Pontoon for safe-keeping because the road to this pontoon became so bad that even in the dry season, vehicles preferred to use the Mongu/Kalabo Road via the Liyoyelo Pontoon crossing point.

Mr Speaker, the pontoon services have not been withdrawn. They will be restored once the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) carries out the minor works at selected points on the road, which will become passable during the course of this year. The pontoon at Kalabo Boma on Luanginga River belongs to the local authority, which is in charge of its operations. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the local authority to modernise it.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I am shocked to be told that this pontoon at Libonda is merely parked for convenience, and yet we have to travel an extra 20 km to reach Liuwa. How can you keep a pontoon parked for two years for convenience sake? Could the hon. Minister be truthful and tell us what is happening to this pontoon.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, the answer that was given by the hon. Deputy Minister is the right one. This pontoon has always had an average of two vehicles passing there per year. It is only the hon. Member of Parliament and the headman’s vehicle that pass there.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, what we are trying to do …

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: I am serious. No questions about it.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, what we are trying to do is look at how economical the operation is. We are trying to come up with a slightly smaller pontoon to accommodate the few vehicles that pass through the area. We just removed the engines from the pontoon for safe-keeping because the road was impassable and it would not have been wise for us to have kept the machines there. However, once some works have been carried out on the roads, the engines will be put back on the pontoon. Our future plan is to ensure that we get a smaller pontoon to provide that service.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

THE AGRICULTURE MARKETING AND COMMODITY EXCHANGE BILLS

304. Mr Ng’onga asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock whether the Government had any plans to present the following Bills to Parliament for enactment:

(a)    the Agriculture Marketing Bill; and
    
(b)    the Commodity Exchange Bill.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has plans to present the Agriculture Marketing Bill during 2014.

Sir, the proposed Commodity Exchange Bill was drafted by the Securities and Exchange Commission, which reports to the Ministry of Finance, and will be presented to Parliament once Cabinet gives its approval, in principle, for the enactment of the Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

TEACHER-PUPIL RATIOS IN SOLWEZI WEST CONSTITUENCY

305. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education what the teacher-pupil ratio at the following schools in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency was, as of October, 2013:

(a)    Mutanda High;

(b)    Jihundu High;

(c)    Meheba High;

(d)    Manyawa Basic;

(e)    Chovwe Basic; and

(f)    Mwajimambwe Basic.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, the teacher-pupil ratio for schools in Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency is as follows:

School    No. of Teachers    Pupil Enrolment    Teacher-pupil Ratio

Mutanda    21    500    1:24

Jihundu    25    743    1:30

Meheba    32    751    1:24

Manyawa    36    1,294    1:36

Chovwe    12    813    1:68

Mwajimambwe    14    768    1:55

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I stand here with a very heavy heart because the figures that the hon. Minister has read out are dreadful. Is the hon. Minister aware that in Manyama, the figures that he has indicated, 1,294 for pupil enrolment and teacher-pupil ratio of 1:36, are incorrect because one class accommodates close to 200 pupils for one teacher? This is terrible and it is not acceptable.

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your follow-up question?

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, is the ministry aware that at Manyama …

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: It is not Manyawa, but Manyama. The teacher-pupil ratio that has been given for Manyama is incorrect. It is not 1:36 per class, but more than that. There are actually 200 pupils in one class. Is the hon. Minister aware of that?

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, since the figures presented by the hon. Deputy Minister are being disputed by the hon. Member of Parliament, I would beg that we revisit the Manyama figures and get back to the hon. Member later so that we verify the exact position. These figures came from the Office of the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS). If they are being doubted by the hon. Member of Parliament, I think we need to give him the benefit of the doubt. We will revisit the issue and come back to the House at a later date.

I thank you, Sir.
UROLOGISTS IN ZAMBIA

306. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    how many urologists were at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) as of December, 2013;

(b)    whether the Government had any plans to have a urologist at every district hospital, countrywide; and

(c)    if there were no such plans, why.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, there were six urologists working at the UTH as at December, 2013. The Government has no plans to have urologists at every district hospital countrywide. According to our current structure of health service delivery, district hospitals offer first level services. Specialised services, such as urology, are only offered at second and third level hospitals.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the number of urologists at the UTH is not adequate?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, we have a human resource development plan and we are currently training some more urologists.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that urology services are only offered at second and third level hospitals. Can he indicate, therefore, how many of these second level hospitals, other than the UTH, have urologists.

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, I am not in a position to give a break down of the distribution of urologists in the second level and tertiary hospitals. I think that requires us to have notice to answer in detail.

I thank you, Sir.

FARMERS PAYMENT BY THE FRA

307. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    what measures the Government had taken to ensure that the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) paid farmers promptly for the supplied produce; and

(b)    when the Government, through the FRA, would increase the price of a 50 kg bag of maize from the current K65.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, the Government has made provisions in the 2014 National Budget to adequately fund the FRA for the purchase of the strategic grain reserves. Additionally, the FRA has been given the mandate to borrow money from commercial banks to facilitate the purchase of strategic grain reserves when the need arises.

The producer price of a 50 kg bag of maize is arrived at using the Gross Margin Budget Analysis. This takes into account the farmer’s cost of production in relation to the average crop yields. The crop for the 2013/2014 Agriculture Season is still under cultivation and, as such, information on the cost of production is yet to be compiled. Once this information is available, the Government will be in a position to ascertain the actual costs incurred by farmers, on average and, therefore, the break-even price plus a margin will be calculated to give a price for a 50 kg bag of maize.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister why the FRA delays buying maize from farmers, hence allowing millers to buy at a cheaper price.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, one of the reasons is that this Government is engaging the private sector to also participate in the procurement of maize. The other reason is that the FRA always waits until the moisture content is low before it procures the maize. This is because it secures its stock for quite a long period of time.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, following the response given by the hon. Minister, as we prepare for the coming farming season, what is the financial position of the agency as regards the money it got from banks during the last farming season?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, let me mention here that we did not get funds from banks last season. The agency was financed through the Budget, as is the case this year. Those who recall, last year we bought 526 thousand metric tonnes which cost us slightly above K550 million. This year in the budget, we have an allocation of K1.13 billion plus allocated to the procurement of stocks for this coming season.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I just want the hon. Minister to categorically state whether there was no syndicated financing aside from the budget support to the FRA.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, a few days ago, you will recall that there was a question on the Floor of the House and we gave a break down of what was procured. In our response, we said that 426, 248 metric tonnes was procured for K554,102,400. This indicates that this came from the Budget. In this year’s budget, I have mentioned that we have over K1 billion and this means that we are going to increase our stocks.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, in the rural parts of Zambia, the FRA does not only buy the maize, but also rents the storage. When is the FRA going to pay for the rentals that it has accrued?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, the stocks which are kept in the rural areas are still in warehouses and so, the warehouse charges cannot be determined now until the contracts come to an end. The process is on-going process until we have emptied the storages.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, I just want to find out from the hon. Minister why the FRA is selling maize to millers at K65, but sales it at K85 to the poor starving Zambians in rural areas, as the situation is at the moment.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, it must be noted that when the FRA buys maize for K65, there are many other costs that come into play. For the Government to sell the maize at K65, it would have incurred costs such as transportation, storage and fumigation. The K85 for a 50 kg bag of maize is arrived at after taking into account the costs incurred.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

X-RAY MACHINES AT THE UTH

308. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    what the total value of X-ray machines at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) were as of December, 2013;

(b)    whether the Government had any plans to procure new machines for the UTH;

(c)    if so, what the estimated cost of the equipment was; and

(d)    whether the company to supply the equipment had already been identified and, if so, what the name of the company was.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, as of 31st December, 2013, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can I have order on my right.

Dr Chilufya: … the UTH had ten X-ray machines with the following values:

Machine    Quantity    Value (Each)    Total
    Diagnostic X-ray Machines    2    113,380.50    226,761.00
    Bucky TS Machines    2    65,677.54    131,355.08
    Digital Fixed Units    2    1,071,845.00    2,143,690.00
    Basic Mobile X-ray unit    2    480,000.00    960,000.00
    Digital Mobile unit    1    781,882.65    871,882.65
    C-Arm X-ray unit    1    53,568.51    53,568.51
    Total    4,297,257.24

Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to procure new machines for the UTH. Under the Hospital Modernisation Programme, more imaging and other types of equipment will be procured. Already, a new digital mobile X-ray and a new digital fixed X-ray machine have been procured.

Mr Speaker, the Government has allocated K40 million for procurement of imaging equipment for the UTH, Ndola Central, Livingstone and Kabwe General Hospitals under the Eurobond funds.

Mr Speaker, the suppliers of the equipment under the Eurobond are to be identified as the tenders are being evaluated now. The suppliers will only be known after the procurement process has been concluded.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, for the first time, the hon. Minister of Health has given me a satisfactory answer. This morning, I was at the UTH and my X-ray results were ready within fifteen minutes. This is a very good development and this is how things ought to be.

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your follow-up question?

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, my question is: Looking at the queues that I found at the UTH for X-ray examinations and the seriousness of the problem, I would like to hear from the hon. Minister how soon the Government is going to procure more X-ray machines at the UTH?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, as I said, the tender processes are still on-going and we will procure the equipment as soon as we finish evaluating the tenders.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

ZAMBEZI RIVER AUTHORITY CORPORATE-SOCIAL RESPONSIBILITY

309. Mr Ntundu asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)    how much money ZESCO limited paid to the Zambezi River Authority as levies from 2011 to 2013, year by year;

(b)    how much money the Authority spent on corporate social responsibility activities to communities along the Zambezi River in the same period; and

(c)    if no money was spent on corporate social responsibility, why this was so.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, the following amounts were paid to the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA) by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Limited:

    Year    Amount (ZMW)

    2011    26,442,923

    2012    34,476,344

    2013    47,201,615

Mr Speaker, under the Zambezi Valley Development Fund Trust, its corporate social responsibility programme, the authority spent the following amounts:

    Project    District    2011    2012    2013    Project
            (ZMW)    (ZMW)    (ZMW)    Cost

Lusitu Irrigation    
Scheme        Chirundu        25,086    11,777    36,863

Nkandawe Irrigation
Scheme    Sinazongwe    231,809    63,186    50,664    345,659

Borehole –Mweemba
Village in Chief
Sikoongo    Chirundu        45,240        45,240

Kotakota Clinic
Nurses House    Gwembe            34,206    34,206

Nakanjele Hammer
Mill        Gwembe            18,263    18,263

Ngolongozya
feasibility studies
for construction of
two dams
and associated
irrigation fields    Zimba            8,745     8,745

Mr Speaker, although the authority carried out the feasibility studies for the two dams, the works will be done by the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development through the Water Affairs Department.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, in the new Gwembe, not the Gwembe that was previously part of Siavonga and Sinazongwe, where I am Member of Parliament, the ZRA has only managed to repair a hammer mill at the cost of K18,000, which is the cost of a new hammer mill.

 I would like to know why, after collecting this whole amount of money, the ZRA is not able to consider the people of Gwembe who lost their land and now stay in rocky mountains where they are not able to grow any food …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Ntundu: … and ignoring …    

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to rise on this point of order which is grievous and compelling.

Sir, is the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health in order to sit quietly without informing this House and the nation at large why the institution under his ministry, the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities (ZAPD), laid off over 70 persons with disabilities with poor conditions?

Sir, it is a very serious matter that this Government has decided to discriminate against people with disabilies.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I think that you have raised your point of order.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: I want to put meat on the …    

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: It will be difficult for me to make a ruling. You have already raised your point of order.

Dr Kaingu: Sir, I also have a file which I wanted to lay on the Table.

Mr Deputy Speaker: You can lay it on the Table.

Dr Kaingu: Should I lay it on the Table without saying a word, Sir?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: You can make your point but, please, be brief.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, this Government intervened when the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) wanted to lay off 2,000 able-bodied stone crushers stones but, now, the same Government is allowing the hon. Minister to lay off over seventy disabled persons. I am wondering why there is this discrimination.

Sir, I have documents concerning the lay-offs which I want to lay on the Table.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Deputy Speaker: In order to get a well-reasoned answer, the hon. Member should file a question.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: In response to a filed question, the hon. Minister can give you a researched answer.

The hon. Member for Gwembe may continue.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I was asking the hon. Minister why the ZRA is not spending the money it is making on the people of Gwembe who were displaced during the construction of the Kariba Dam. Why is it spending that money elsewhere and not on the people of Gwembe?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is right to say that all this money was collected, and only a hammer mill was rehabilitated in the new Gwembe. I think it is a matter of the area hon. Member working together with the ministry in coming up with a proper solution to this matter. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, the feasibility studies for the Ngolongozya Dam for the people of Njabalombe, who were equally displaced from the Zambezi River, has been going on for over ten years now. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the construction of this important dam will commence.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we have carried out the feasibility studies and, so far, two advertisements for the construction of the Ngolongozya Dam have already been placed in the press, including today’s Zambia Daily Mail newspaper. Once the tender process has been concluded, we will be on the move.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, is it not possible to direct the ZRA to improve on its corporate social responsibility?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we have already directed the ZRA to improve on its corporate-social responsibility. Previously, we had a problem with the institution’s internal organisation, but we have since dealt with it. The ZRA will work with us and, together, we can identify projects which require attention.

I thank you, Sir.
    
JUVENILES IN REFORMATORY SCHOOLS

310. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a)    how many juveniles were currently in reformatory schools countrywide;

(b)    what the most prevalent offences committed by the juveniles were; and

(c)    what programmes undertaken in the reformatory schools to reform the juveniles were.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Kazunga): Mr Speaker, there are three correctional schools for juveniles in Zambia, namely Nakambala Approved School in Mazabuka District, Insakwe Approved School located in Ndola District and Katombola Reformatory School located in  Kazungula District. Currently, there are about 127 juveniles in the correctional facilities countrywide and 116 of these are male and eleven are female.

Mr Speaker, out of the 116 male juveniles, ninety are admitted at Katombola Reformatory School, twenty-six are at Nakambala Approved School while the eleven female juveniles are admitted at Insakwe Approved School.

Mr Speaker, the prevalent offences committed by the juveniles are theft-related and defilement.

Mr Speaker, the three correctional facilities provide a range of programmes aimed at rehabilitating juveniles and improving their social development. The following are the programmes offered by each reformatory school:

(a)    Nakambala Approved School: The activities at this school include skills training such as carpentry and joinery, tailoring, bricklaying, formal education programmes, counselling as well as sports and recreation;

(b)    Insakwe Approved School: The activities at this school include formal education, skills training such as tailoring, psycho-social counseling, spiritual development and recreation; and

(c)     Katombola Reformatory School offers formal education, literacy programmes, skills training such as plumbing, tailoring, building, general agriculture, electrical engineering, computer lessons, carpentry and joinery.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, what programmes are in place to monitor the performance of these juveniles after they leave the reformatory schools?

Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, currently, the reformatory schools are adequate to accommodate all the lessons that the students are taking and our ministry has a department under social welfare, where officers at provincial and district level monitor the programmes at such facilities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, your Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs visited most of these facilities …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was stating that your Committee, the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs, visited the reformatory facilities in the country. Its findings were that these institutions lack the necessary requirements to make them reformatory schools. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health what measures the Government is putting in place to ensure that these facilities are enhanced in order to provide the necessary reformatory measures that are required to ensure that these children who are under these schools are reformed.

Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, indeed, my ministry is also concerned about the state of these facilities and I am happy to report that when I went to Insakwa Reformatory School for girls in Ndola, there were a lot of renovations that had been made about which the inmates there were quite happy. I am sure that these renovations will gradually be extended to other facilities.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, in her response to the question, the hon. Minister indicated that the youths at these reformatory schools are taught through the normal school curriculum, among other things. Can she indicate the grades at the reformatory schools.

Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, the larger part of the education curriculum at these schools is concerned with skills training such as carpentry. This is what these facilities are mostly involved in.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, the three centres that the hon. Minister mentioned have been in existence for quite some time and there has been an increase in the population of this country, hence an increase in the number of cases. Is therefore no possibility of the ministry setting up these reformatory centres within each province to try to make it easier for the juveniles from the respective provinces across the country to access this facility? 

Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, the Government, through my ministry, has taken that into consideration and there is a proposal on the table to build five more correctional centres around the country.

I thank you, Sir. 

FM RADIO TRANSMITTERS IN LUWINGU DISTRICT

311. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting: 

(a)    when Frequency Modulation (FM) radio transmitters would be installed in Luwingu District; and 

(b)    when the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) television signal would be improved in the district. 

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Mr Njeulu): Mr Speaker, the programme for the installation of FM transmitters across the country is on-going and is expected to be completed in July, 2014. We have identified twenty-five sites which will benefit from this and Luwingu is one of them. 

Sir, the ZNBC is installing the transmitters as per schedule of work. In line with this schedule of implementation, the installation of the FM transmitter for Radio 1 and 2 in Luwingu has been set to be executed on 1st March, 2014.

Mr Speaker, the ministry regrets that the television transmitter for Luwingu has been off air since July, last year, due to a technical fault with the transmitter. The engineers have identified the problem and spare parts have since been ordered from Brazil. We expect these spare parts to arrive before the end of this quarter. It is, then, that the transmitter will be fixed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the answer given by the hon. Minister, especially since he mentioned that the FM radio transmitter in the district will be restored on 1st March, 2014. I have observed that when the FM transmitters are being launched across the country, there is normally a ceremony that takes place. I expect the same to take place in Luwingu.

Sir, there are some hon. Ministers who have a tendency of sneaking into other people’s constituencies for ceremonies without the knowledge of the area hon. Members of Parliament. Can they indicate that when 1st March …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir. 

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mucheleka remained standing

Hon. Government Member: Iwe, ikala.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament in order to insinuate that hon. Ministers sneak into people’s constituencies without their knowledge …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Kampyongo: … when, in fact, most hon. Ministers have tried to invite hon. Members and I have an example of such an incident. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kampyongo: Just two weeks ago, …

The Deputy Chairperson: What is your point of order?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, is he in order to mislead the House and the nation at large that hon. Government Ministers do not extend invitations to hon. Members for Government functions, and yet they turn down the invitations for unjustifiable reasons? Is he in order?

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that any hon. Member of Parliament has a right to access any of the 150 Constituencies when on ministerial duty. However, there is no rule that in the performance of those duties, he must send invitations to the hon. Member of Parliament who oversees that constituency. 

Can the hon. Member for Lubansenshi continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Long live, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, can I request the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting to extend an invitation to me when that ceremonial installation of the FM transmitter takes place in Lubansenshi Constituency?

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting, would you extend the invitation when launching that programme.

Hon. Government Members: No!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Mr Kapeya): Mr Speaker, we have already written to the Permanent Secretary and the hon. Minister for the Northern Province since Luwingu falls under the Northern Province. Therefore, it is up to the provincial administration to decide who invite. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, I am delighted that the FM transmitters are going to be installed and I know that the engineers are already on site. However, what radius will these transmitters be able to cover within the Luwingu District, considering that it is quite vast? 

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, depending on the terrain of a given area, the standard radius is 100 km, but if an area is mountainous or has a lot of depressions, then, the signal goes as far as 70 km radius.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, on behalf of my people in Kafue Constituency, I want to find out from the hon. Minister what measures are being put in place to ensure that those people in Kafue, which is less than 50 km from Lusaka, have the requisite ZNBC signal in terms of television and radio signal. The problem in Kafue has been in existence for the last ten years, but nothing much has been done about it. What measures are being put in place?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, even though it is a new question, I will attempt to give a bonus answer. Indeed, as referred to by the hon. Deputy Minister, it is an on-going process. This year and next year, we will ensure that we cover the entire country.

I thank you, Sir. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Perhaps, by way of guiding each other, the answer that was given by the ministry to the original question was to the effect that the Government would ensure that there is coverage in parts of the country that are not currently covered. Therefore, to that extent you opened up a Pandora’s Box.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Lubansenshi asked about being invited and the hon. Minister said that the invitations would be dealt with by the Permanent Secretary. Is there anything wrong with the hon. Minister mentioning to the Permanent Secretary that his colleague, a fellow hon. Member of Parliament, would like to attend the ceremony so that he can be included on the guest list?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, normally, the administrative procedure is very important. We are following what is supposed to be done. We can do that, if we wanted, but it has to be observed that we extend the authority to those in the province.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister indicated that out of the twenty-five districts that will be considered for the FM radio transmitter installation, Luwingu is one of them. Is he able to tell this House and the nation at large the other twenty-four districts?

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, a list of the remaining twenty-four districts that will benefit from this project is quiet long, but I can bring it to this House for the hon. Members to see at a later date. 

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, arising from the hon. Minister’s answer that administrative procedures have to be followed with regard to invitations, is the hon. Minister admitting that he is breaching his own directive that only hon. Members of Parliament are part of the oversight team and that they must assist in the inspection of various programmes and projects that are undertaken in their constituencies? On one hand, he is saying that the Permanent Secretary must take charge of the administration and on the other hand, he is openly inviting the hon. Members of Parliament to be part of the team. 

Sir, I need clarification from the hon. Minister.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, there is no contradiction here. It is automatic for any hon. Member of Parliament to participate in the programmes in his/her constituency. For example, we will be in Luwingu on 1st March, 2014. Honestly, how do we leave out the hon. Member of Parliament for that area? In fact, he should be the first person to be there.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

CONFEDERATION OF AFRICAN FOOTBALL DONATION

312. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Youth and Sport:

(a)    how the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) would use the US$125,000 that was donated by the Confederation of African Football (CAF) in 2013;

(b)    whether football clubs in rural areas would also benefit from the donation and, if so, how; and

(c)    how the funds would improve the football sport in general, countrywide.

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Mulenga): Mr Speaker, FAZ did not receive a grant of US$125,000 from CAF in 2013. In this regard, there are no funds to benefit the rural clubs. However, in the event that the fund was received, the rural clubs would benefit through the Talent Identification Project that FAZ undertakes.

Sir, in the event that this fund is received, the association will, in addition to the Talent Identification Project countrywide, use the fund to support the junior and senior Women’s National Teams.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just said that there is no grant …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Health in order to keep quiet without informing this House on the issue of the over 500 nurses that were fired? Out of that number, how many have been reinstated? I am concerned because these nurses might start going abroad in search of jobs, and yet the Government would have spent money on their training. I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! In order to have a meaningful response, I will request you to put a question in written form.

 The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, I was saying that since there is no grant from CAF, has the ministry got any other money to support the rural teams?

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili): Mr Speaker, indeed, we have just signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) with the International Federation of Association Football (FIFA), which stipulates that it will promote community football. FIFA is going to finance 75 per cent and the ministry will put in 25 per cent. This community football will mainly be in the rural areas where we need to tap the talent that we want.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, since mention was made of the talent identification programme, how many of our youths have been identified from the rural areas and are currently playing for the national sides as a result of that programme?

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I am not able to give a specific number, but I would say that almost 30 per cent of the current under-seventeen boys were identified through the Rising Star Programme and the Talent Identification Project that the national coach undertook throughout the country.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Youth and Sport used to have a good programme …

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, on a point of order.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of procedure. Is the hon. Leader of Government Business in the House in order to sit their quietly when the word, “Boma” is being used in the House from time-to-time? 

The word, “Boma”, according to the Oxford Dictionary of English, refers to an enclosure of animals …

Laughter

Prof. Lungwangwa: … and it is a Kiswahili word. We are now fifty years into our Independence, and if the word, “Boma” refers to an enclosure of animals, is it relevant today? Also, if it refers to something else like the British Overseas Management Area (BOMA), is it relevant, after fifty years of our Independence? I need your very serious ruling on the irrelevant use of the word, Mr Speaker.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Boma!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The ruling is that the hon. Member in referring to dictionaries and putting interpretations thereon has adequately debated the point of order.

Can the hon. Member for Monze Central Continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I was stating that the Ministry of Youth and Sport, under the …

Hon. Opposition Members: Boma, Boma!

Mr Mwiimbu: … MMD Administration, used to have a very good programme pertaining to sport improvement in various constituencies to which it provided the necessary sports kits. I would like to find out whether my good friend, Hon. Kambwili, Minister of Youth and Sport, will continue with this good programme, considering that his constituency also benefitted from it.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the Government will not do things haphazardly. If I tell you how much money has not been paid from those kits that were bought by the MMD, you will be very surprised. So, we will only do things within our budget. Our concentration, now, is the Youth Empowerment Fund. This way, we can empower the youths with skills. However, under the new Sports Policy, we are going to introduce what will be known as Komboni Sport. Under this programme, there will be a budget to buy sports equipment and other necessary items.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo: Sir, would the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport indicate the measures that have been in place to collaborate with the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in identifying and improving sport at school level.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, like I said, we are coming up with a new Sports Policy. Under this policy, a memorandum of understanding will be signed between the ministries of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and Youth and Sport. This will entail that all teachers who are in charge of sports in the schools work closely with the District Sports Co-ordinators who are going to be employed. I agree with you that sport in the schools has really gone down and something needs to be done about it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, it was good …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport in order to discriminate against rural constituencies where there are no kombonies …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … and concentrate on areas where the players are kombonic?

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Before I call upon the hon. Minister to respond, what is the meaning of the word “komboni”?

Mr Mwiimbu: It is a term that was used by the hon. Minister so he should define it, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: Thank you. Hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, as you respond, you should define the meaning of the word “komboni.”

Mr Kambwili rose.

The Deputy Chairperson: Oh, sorry, I will come to you later.

The hon. Member for Kasempa can continue.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, I was saying that it was good to hear from the hon. Minister that the current Under Seventeen Team was constituted after the national coach had gone round the country to pick the players. My question is: To which parts of the country did the national coach travel to pick these players? Did these areas include rural parts and, if so, which ones?

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, as you respond, help us to understand the meaning of the word “komboni.”

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, “komboni” simply means community. Therefore, it will be called community sport. However, instead of using a foreign word, we decided to use our local language and called it komboni sport. Therefore, even the rural areas will be covered under the komboni sport.

Mr Speaker, as regard the hon. Member’s question, the visit of the national coach to all provinces was widely publicised and people were expected to bring the selected footballers from all parts of the country to the provincial headquarters where the trials were conducted.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, it is gratifying to hear that the Talent Identification Project also targets the rural places. However, I feel that this project is only concentrated in Lusaka, Kitwe and other urban and peri-urban areas. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when this project will reach the remote rural places, such as Mitete, in order to identify talent.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I have already stated that we just signed an MOU with FIFA to start a programme where there will be competitions in the rural areas through which talent can be identified. As soon as the programme is finalised with FIFA, I will present a ministerial statement to announce when this programme will start.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister elaborate what he meant by saying that there were sports kits that were not paid for by the MMD.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, there is an outstanding balance of about K16 million for both the sports equipment, such as the kits and jerseys, and some hammer mills that were procured under that programme. So, that balance has not been paid because it has not been budgeted for.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Just to clarify things, was that equipment bought by the MMD Party or Government.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, they were bought by the MMD Government.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr W. Banda (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is happy with the current Zambian performance in terms of our league and …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, we approved a supplementary budget in this House. Is the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport in order to continue ‘admiring’ that balance of K16 million without attending to it when we have actually approved a supplementary budget?

 I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Minister will comment on that point of order as he answers the question by the hon. Member of Milanzi.

Mr W. Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government or ministry is happy with the current performance of our Zambia Premier League.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, in view of the investment that is put into the league, I think I am satisfied with their performance. If we need this league to improve, the private sector must put in more money in the league so that we can be able to buy players from other countries. The Zambian teams have been performing very badly in the continental tournaments because most of the teams they play against attract professional foreign players from different countries who play for national teams. 

Sir, if, therefore, we have to run a professional league in Zambia, there must be a lot of investment. For instance, some teams are paying their players a K1,500 per month salary. With such an amount, it is very difficult to attract foreign players and in order to improve, we have to put more money in the league. 

As it is, with the investment that we are putting in, we are doing very well. 

I thank you, Sir. 

____

BILLS

SECONDING READING

THE BUSINESS REGULATORY BILL, 2013

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to make my statement on the Business Regulatory Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 22 of 2013.  I wish to express my gratitude to your Committee for putting in place a transparent consultative process on the fundamental aspects of the Bill, preparation of the report on the Bill and the comments as reflected in its report. 

The Bill is part of the private sector development reforms which the Government is implementing. The reforms seek to create a conducive business environment within which the private sector, particularly Small and Medium Enterprises (SMEs), can grow and flourish. The reforms are designed to reduce the cost of doing business in Zambia. Our belief is that companies should operate in this country at minimum costs so that they focus on expanding their operations and creating new jobs. 

Mr Speaker, a study on business licensing done in 2007 found that at the time, this country had a total of 517 licences which the private sector had to comply with. It also found that the cost of complying with these licences was high and the private sector was spending approximately K2.2 billion annually. 

It was not just the cost of these licences that the private sector had to contend with, but also procedures, processes and bureaucratic inefficiencies that accompanied the licensing system. For instance, in order to establish a hotel in a national park and offer a full tourism package, an entrepreneur or investor needed approximately thirty-seven licences obtained from the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), the ministry responsible for tourism, the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA) and the local authorities. Clearly, this was not to the benefit of the private sector. 

This situation arose in all sectors because there was a proliferation of regulatory agencies, no policy on licensing, no principles or procedures in developing licences and no ministry or agency undertaking regulatory impact studies before licences could be introduced. Each regulator was acting on its own accord and introducing licences as it saw fit. Most of the licences were all targeted at the private sector, mainly as a revenue generating measure. This suffocated the private sector and made Zambia a very challenging business environment, rendering most of our private sector uncompetitive, particularly in light of the regional integration and globalisation. 

Mr Speaker, following these findings, the Government embarked on an ambitious programme, to, among other things, do the following: 

(a)    eliminate licences which served no legitimate regulatory purposes. A total of 170 licences were targeted for elimination;

(b)    re-classify some licences and permits as levies, reports or notifications, depending on the purpose they served;

(c)    amalgamate or merge ninety-nine licences into twenty-one licences to avoid duplication of licences or overlapping of licensing requirements; and

(d)    reduce the compliance cost from KR2.2 billion annually by approximately K451 million by 2014. 

Sir, so far, the Government has eliminated sixty-two licences, re-classified thirty-nine and amalgamated twenty-nine. Our estimate is that these measures have reduced compliance costs by approximately K450 million annually. 

Mr Speaker, despite these successes, the Government is acutely aware that there is a need to address the challenges that resulted in the proliferation of this large number of licences that were choking the private sector. The Business Regulatory Bill is intended to ensure that we no longer find ourselves in a situation where we have unjustifiable and nuisance licences. 

The Business Regulatory Bill is designed to achieve the following:

(a)    introduce principles and procedures which agencies and regulators must use before imposing a new licence on the private sector and set standards to be used in the issuance of a licence;

(b)    ensure that licensing is for the purpose of regulating a clearly defined public policy goal. This includes health, standards of goods and services, safety and environment and consumer protection, which cannot be achieved by other means;

(c)    create transparency in the way licences are introduced so that the intentions of the licence, the procedures and the impact are understood and appreciated by the private sector and members of the public; and

(d)    introduce a classification of and criteria for licensing which all regulatory agencies will adhere to. 

Mr Speaker, the Bill provides for a specialised agency to review the legitimacy and impact of proposed licences on behalf of the Government. The work of the agency will feed into the Licensing Committee in deciding which licences to recommend to Cabinet to introduce new licences or changes to the conditions of the existing ones. The agency will establish and manage a database of all legal licences and also act as an information centre on all licences in the country. Only licences that are legal will appear on this e-registry and the public will access this information online. 

Sir, hon. Members of the House may wish to note that one of the findings of the Business Licensing Study was that some institutions had even introduced licences that had no legal backing. This kind of mischief could only occur because the public had nowhere to acquire information on legitimate licences. 

Mr Speaker, let me, at this point, address the pertinent concerns raised in your Committee’s report. I wish to point out, from the outset, that the roles and responsibilities of the Business Regulatory Review Committee will be undertaken on behalf of the Government. The Committee will be an agent of the Government and will, at all times, carry out its activities in a manner consistent with the Government policy. 

There should be no fear, therefore, of the hon. Minister acting at cross purpose with the committee or vice-versa. Our policy, as a Government, is that the private sector must flourish in a business environment where all licences serve legitimate purposes. The duty of this committee will be to ensure that the policy is properly implemented. 

Sir, the principle role of the committee will be to ensure that the principles outlined in the law are adhered to. These are principles we, as a Government, have now enshrined in the law so that not even the Minister can act in a contrary manner.

Similarly, concerns of disputes between the Business Regulatory Review Committee and the Business Regulatory Review Agency on one hand and other sector regulators on the other is, by and large, a very unlikely event. The Business Regulatory Review Committee will act on behalf of the Government. 

Therefore, I do not see how a regulator, who is acting on behalf of the Government in a specific sector, would fail to amicably resolve differences with another part of the same Government. The sector regulators and the committee or the agency will all be part of the Executive.

Sir, the clients of the Regulatory Review Committee will not be members of the public per se. It will be ministries, local authorities, the Government agencies and all other authorities looking to impose licences on the business community that will be the clients. The members of the public will continue to transact directly with the specific regulators of their sectors.

Mr Speaker, on the issue of establishing the agency as a corporate body, we appreciate the concerns that have been raised. I, however, would like the House to note that the design of the Business Regulatory Review Agency is such that it will be more of a secretariat to the business Regulatory Review Committee.

Sir, we expect that its structure will be lean. The agency will not be involved in the actual issuing of the licences.

Sir, hon. Members of this House will agree that new licences are not processed every day. It is possible that in a given year, no institution even proposes to revise the existing licences or introduce new ones.

With the principles outlined in his law, we expect even fewer requests of new or revised licences. The bulk of the work of the agency will, therefore, come from servicing the functions of the committee.

Further, as this is a function that will be performed on behalf of the Government within Government, the benefits of creating a corporate body may not necessarily apply in this case. The legal personality of the agency will be that of the Government.

Mr Speaker, the concept of a single licensing system is designed to serve the business houses by reducing the points of contact with the bureaucracy. Hon. Members of this House will recall that, in many cases, there have seen business houses displaying a host of licences from several agencies or, in some cases, even the same agencies or institutions.

As I illustrated earlier, operating a hotel and offering a full tourism package required up to thirty-seven licences. Assuming this is accepted as a legitimate number of licences, the essence of a single licensing system is that thirty-seven licences should not translate into thirty-seven separate forms, thirty-seven separate processes and thirty-seven separate institutions or desks and certainly not thirty-seven different fees and payment points.

The idea is that the business person seeking a licence should not be inconvenienced by the background processes that are required before he or she can obtain a licence. A single licensing system will require that institutions involved in the various stages of licensing a business collaborate.

It is in the interest of efficiency that the law creates a platform within which regulators and other licensing authorities must collaborate. Single licensing systems will prod regulators towards greater harmonisation of their systems and processes.

It will also drastically reduce the incidence of corruption and other rent-seeking behaviour that results in very high compliance for the business community. Each relevant regulator or agency need not necessarily have direct contact with an applicant to obtain a licence if its role does not require direct interaction with the applicant.

Our vision is that to obtain the licence, the prospective hotel operator must do the following:

(a)    fill in one form from which all agencies will obtain their required information;

(b)    make one payment which will cover the costs of all the agencies involved in the issuance of the particular licence; and

(c)    have contact or entry point where he/she will deliver the form and, after a stipulated time, collect the licence from the same point.

Sir, this is the reason, the regulatory service centres will be critical. The regulatory service centres will allow for business houses to comply with multiple licensing requirements of one or more regulatory bodies through a single entry point.

Mr Speaker, we agree with your Committee that the Bill will require some tweaking for clarity. In this regard, I will present amendments to the Bill with regard to the following:

(a)    a definition of single licensing system to avoid any ambiguity as to its interpretation;

(b)    amend the period within which public institutions will be expected to comply with this law, taking into account administrative, infrastructural and human resource considerations. The period will change from the current six months outlined in Part V Section 19 (2) to twenty-four months;

(c)    the fourteen-day period prescribed for an institution to respond to an application will be revised to take into account sector-specific time frames; and

(d)    provide clarity between the role of the Business Regulatory Review Agency and that of the Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA) in the working of the law.

Sir, with these amendments, I am confident that we will have addressed the most significant concerns that your Committee raised.

Mr Speaker, let me emphasise that the Bill does not take away the power of regulators or ministries to charge for licences and collect revenues. It does not take away, in any form, the power of regulators to regulate their sectors. It merely sets out the legal principles and procedures to be followed in coming up with licences. It brings order, rationality and predictability to the development, design and issuance of licences.

Mr Speaker, in this Bill, we are not prescribing how licences are supervised by regulatory agencies. Each regulator will continue to determine its own procedures, provided it does not impose unjust costs on businesses through red tape and unnecessary bureaucracy.

Sir, hon. Members of the House may wish to note that Zambia is not the only country to be working on such legal reforms. In Africa, countries such as Kenya and Mauritius have put in place legal and institutional frameworks to support business licensing and to come up with business reforms.

The implementation of this law will be a major step in making Zambia one of the best countries in which to do business in Africa. It will help keep the costs of doing business affordable, especially with regard to the compliance costs.

Mr Speaker, I now look forward to the full support of the hon. Members of this House.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to make some comments on the Business Regulatory Bill of 2013, which is before the House.

Sir, your Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour was tasked by this august House to scrutinise the Bill in detail. Your Committee carried out the task with the assistance of a number of stakeholders that submitted on the Bill.

Mr Speaker, the principle reasons that have been advanced to justify the introduction of the Bill are to:

(a)    provide for an efficient, cost effective and accessible business licensing system;

(b)    provide for a set of principles and interventions to guide the agencies when regulating and licensing business activities in accordance with the law under their mandate;

(c)    provide for the classification of, and criteria for, licensing;

(d)    establish an e-registry and assign a control number for laws regulating businesses;

(e)    provide for the establishment of regulatory service centres, regulatory clearance systems and a single licensing system for business in each sector or group of businesses in a sector;

(f)    establish a Business Regulatory Review Committee and a Business Regulatory Review Agency and provide for their functions and powers; and

(g)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Sir, allow me to briefly comment on some of the objectives of the Bill. First and foremost, I wish to state that the need to enact this Bill is long overdue as these efforts date as far back as 2008 when there was an attempt by the Government to regulate business regulators in the country. Thus, the Bill is not only timely, but also a guarantee to streamline the substantive roles of regulatory agencies in the country.

Mr Speaker, the Business Regulatory Bill takes forward the Government’s commitment to improve the way regulation is applied in Zambia. The primary purpose of the Bill is to make licensing regimes simpler, transparent and focused on legitimate regulatory purposes. The Government has specifically adopted a comprehensive approach to reforming business licensing and regulations that aim to safeguard public safety and environmental and consumer protection. This Bill is part of the Government’s institutional effort aimed at promoting and strengthening regulatory reform through the Regulatory Impact Assessment (RIA). The Bill makes RIA compulsory for the initiators of the most important regulatory measures. However, the objects of the Bill, regrettably, do not include this aspect of RIA.

Additionally, economic actors, especially the private sector, have been concerned with the administrative burden and compliance costs imposed by having to meet a variety of business licensing regulations. It is common to encounter a multiplicity of licences required to conduct business, especially affecting the tourism and hospitality industries as an example.

Sir, a number of licences are also of short validity periods, for example, annually, thus imposing renewal costs. In addition, regulatory agencies sometimes delay the processing of licence applications, even where it is just a renewal. Suffice to add that the establishment of a Business Regulatory Review Committee (BRRC) is also an important initiative to provide a coherent process for the overall review of all existing licences and a channel for addressing appeals against denial of licences by regulatory agencies.

Mr Speaker, another important aspect that the Bill seeks to address is the introduction of important classification and criteria to be applied to define conditions where a licence, permit, certificate or authorisation may apply to regulate a business activity. It also introduces a statute of limitation of fourteen days within which period a regulatory agency should either deny and give reasons or issue a licence permit certificate or authorisation, thereby encouraging efficiency and recourse for applicants that need to quickly engage in business.

Sir, amongst the envisaged outcomes of this Bill will be the reduction in the multiplicity of licences and increased efficiency in the processing of applications, especially after e-registration is introduced and adopted by regulatory service centres. Furthermore, the proposed Business Regulatory Bill will also provide an important opportunity to rationalise the validity period of licences, promote more efficient and accessible licensing systems through decentralisation by establishing regulatory service centres in provinces and the introduction of a single licensing system. This will, by and large, reduce the cost of doing business in the country. 

Mr Speaker, another major outcome will be the increased transparency surrounding the formulation and implementation of policies and laws used to regulate business. Once the Business Regulatory Bill is enacted, imposition of the regulatory agencies that negatively impinge on business can be challenged as they will also be required to account to a higher and independent authority, the BRRC or the regulator of regulators.

However, there are also some concerns that your Committee would like to bring to the attention of this House. Sir, the proposed legislation is attempting to have a mandatory fourteen-day prescription for a response by a regulatory agency to an application for licensing without exceptions. Your Committee is cognisant of the fact that this will bring efficiency on the part of the regulatory agencies to operate within the statute limitation. However, your Committee wishes to note that this is likely to result in more confusion in that some applicants would obtain their licences by default. This also has the potential to result in connivance between applicants and employees of regulatory agencies much worse than is currently the case at registries such as the High Court, Lands and Deeds Registry, Patents and Companies Registration Agency where documents disappear and re-appear post-dated or backdated or, generally, tampered with.

Furthermore, some applications require technical assessments. For example, applications for mining and exploration licences, where the fourteen days may not be adequate. Your Committee is, therefore, of the view that the provision be revised to include different time frames for different types of licences in the various sectors.

Sir, your Committee is also of the strong view that the agency, which has been created in Clause 14, be a corporate body, as is usually the case with most statutory regulatory agencies such as the Securities and Exchange Commission, the Competition and Consumer Protection Commission, the Zambia Environmental Management Agency and the Zambia Development Agency.

The establishment of the agency without being conferred with such legal personality gives rise to a number of issues, such as the following:

(a)    a statutory regulatory agency is usually established as a corporate body  so that it has legal form and character separate and distinct from the persons that comprise it;

(b)    to enforce the law and compel persons to comply therewith;

(c)    to transact and deal with other legal persons, authorities and entities; and

(d)    to enter into contracts and other agreements.

Sir, your Committee was informed by most stakeholders who appeared before it that the provision in Clause 7(2), where an aggrieved person or organisation can appeal to the High Court over the decision of the committee, was retrogressive, especially in a business environment. They stated that considering the nature of businesses and the time that it usually takes for the High Court to dispose of cases, an alternative dispute resolution body should be included such as an arbitrator or tribunal to make the appeal to the High Court a last resort. In view of the foregoing, your Committee is of the firm view that the provision be amended accordingly.

Sir, allow me now, as I conclude, to echo the words of Lyndon B. Johnson, the 36th President of America, who stated that:

“You do not examine legislation in light of the benefits it will convey if properly administered, but in light of the wrongs it would do and the harms it would cause if improperly administered.”

Mr Speaker, subject to the above, your Committee urges this august House to pass the Bill, mutatis mutandis. On behalf of the Committee, I wish to thank you and the Clerk of the National Assembly for the guidance and administrative support rendered to your Committee. I further wish to thank all the stakeholders that made submissions on the Bill.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank your Committee for the wonderful job that it did. I would like to assure this august House that we will seriously take into consideration your Committee’s observations and make the necessary amendments where it will be appropriate.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee, at a later date.

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MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1740 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 20th February, 2014.