DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 28th February, 2014

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMEMT BY MR SPEAKER

COMPOSITION OF SESSIONAL COMMITTEES

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I have an announcement to make. I wish to inform the House that in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 131, the Standing Orders Committee has appointed Hon. J. Shakafuswa, MP, to serve on the Committee on Youth and Sport.

 Thank you.

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to acquaint the House with the business it will consider next week. I should, perhaps, emphasise that this is the business on the curriculum. If there are any extracurricular activities, I know nothing about them.

Sir, on Tuesday, 4th March, 2014, the Business of the House will commence with Questions to hon. Ministers. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider the Committee Stage of the Service Commissions Amendment Bill, 2013.

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 5th March, 2014, the Business of the House will begin with Questions to hon. Ministers. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will deal with Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Committee Stage of the Business Regulatory Bill, 2013.

Sir, on Thursday, 6th March, 2014, the Business of the House will commence with Questions to hon. Ministers. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 7th March, the Business of the House will begin with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions to hon. Ministers. Thereafter, the House will deal with the presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then deal with any business that may be outstanding.

I thank you, Sir.

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HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I would like His Honour the Vice-President to assist me to solve this puzzle. Yesterday, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Former Government.

Mr Lufuma: Can I continue?

Sir, when the MMD was in Government, it was conspicuously against calls for a people-driven Constitution. The Opposition Patriotic Front (PF) at the time, was vehemently for a people-driven Constitution. Now that the PF is in power, it is clearly against a people-driven Constitution. What is in the Government that makes well-meaning and, perhaps, principled parties go against the wishes of the people who are their masters? Is it selfishness or fear of the unknown?

Mr Speaker: Are you answering questions?

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, could His Honour the Vice-President solve that puzzle for me.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the hon. Questioner might find it more profitable to take up crossword puzzles. He would find them, at least, soluble in his mind. As he is no doubt aware if he had listened to the hon. Minister of Justice’s ministerial statement to the House the other day, we are waiting for the report on the Constitution to be delivered before we can progress any further. We are not disputing that it must be people-driven.

Hon. Government Member: Yes!

The Vice-President: Sir, we are just waiting to see the report so that we can proceed with the Constitution. This has been the case all along.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the issues …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order that borders on the integrity of this House. Yesterday, when I was about to raise a point of order, you said that you would not allow any more points of order.

Sir, the rules of this House state that no hon. Member of Parliament can come into the House with a camera. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipangali in order to come into the House with an ipad and film what is happening in the House?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, there are cameras and witnesses in this House.

Hon. Government Member: Yes, all of us here.

Mr Mwila: Sir, I need your serious ruling on why the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipangali should not be punished.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I will reserve my ruling in order to study this point of order carefully.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, lately, Kasumbalesa Border has been very fragile and lives have been lost there. His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia was recently in Kinshasa to attend a Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) Summit. May I know if the happenings at Kasumbalesa Border Post were some of the issues that the President discussed with his Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) counterpart.

The Vice-President: Sir, the matter was discussed in detail on the sidelines of the COMESA Conference. It is clear that the Congolese are just as eager as we are to sign our trade agreements. So, I would say this is positive progress.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, mine is a very serious point of order. Yesterday, there were three men with guns in the House and, when I went outside in the foyer, I found a man with an AK-47. The three men probably had hand grenades too.

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Sir, as you aware, your Parliament is affiliated to other Commonwealth Parliaments. Therefore, I want to know whether it is in order for His Honour the Vice-President to bring armed men in here for his protection and that of his loved ones. If that is allowed, then, some of us who are from the village and have no guns can come with bows and arrows.

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I have reserved my ruling.

The hon. Member for Ikeleng’i can continue.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, constitutionally, the people of the North-Western Province deserve a share of the national resources. In view of this, when are we going to have a new Constitution so that the people of the North-Western Province can have an equal share of the national cake since this Government does not want to develop that province?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, to say that we do not want to develop the North-Western Province is a questionable assertion. The hon. Member should bring some figures to show that a small number of colleges, clinics and other infrastructure has been built in the North-Western Province compared to other parts of Zambia. Perhaps, we should look at it the other way round. We can produce a provincial break down of development projects. As for mere assertions like those about bows and arrows, I cannot respond to them really. Hopefully, the hon. Member was not talking about poisoned arrows.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, last week on Thursday, the National Chairperson for the MMD, Hon Kabinga Pande, said that the PF had failed to bring development to Zambia. Can His Honour the Vice-President shed more light on what the PF has done in the two years that it has been in the Government, particularly in Luapula.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I recall the MMD National Chairperson’s statement and, if I remember correctly, he accused us of surviving on projects that were left by the MMD. Would he be pleased if I assured him that we will cease all the projects started by the MMD and begin our own? Would that satisfy him? Can he foresee people being happy to be driving at 160 km an hour across the Barotse Flood Plains and ending up in a huge pile of sand where the works have stopped on the road to Kalabo? Would he be happy to see in his province work stopped on projects that were started by the MMD because his party is no longer in power? I think not.

Sir, there is a lot of development around. In Luapula, for example, there is the construction of five secondary schools, tarring of the Mansa/Luwingu and Kawamba/Mushota roads and rehabilitation of the Mansa/Kashikishi Road. I can read out the list of projects forever. We are shifting over to our projects and we have also brought our emphasis into play. We are engaging the communities, as we said we would in our manifesto, in the management of the wildlife in Zambia, for example. That is a different policy from that for the MMD.

So, priorities are changing. We are aiming at lower taxes and higher wages for the bottom end of the scale, as opposed to the so-called salary compression where the rich made themselves richer and the poor poorer. If Hon. Pande does not have a copy of our manifesto, I will send him one across the Floor at the end of my question time.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, the PF Government …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me the opportunity to rise on this important point of order. Yesterday, when you ordered the hon. Opposition Members of Parliament to leave the Chamber because they were interrupting the Business of the House, Hon. Dr Kaingu said:

“We have now removed the respect from you, Mr Speaker, and it appears that you do not understand English.”

Mr Speaker, this is misbehaviour of the worst kind particularly that it is coming from a vice-president of a political party. Was Hon. Dr Kaingu in order to disrespect the Hon. Mr Speaker and bring this House into disrepute?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us always have order. For me to make an informed ruling on this point of order, obviously, I need to look at the transcript. Therefore, I will reserve my ruling.

Mr Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the PF Government …

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Yesterday, this House sat and people out there listened to our deliberations on Parliament Radio, which is a public radio. I would like to know whether the women PF Members who are seated across were in order to say that they could jump on Hon. Muntanga, shit and urinate on him. They made all sorts of comments while the radio was live to the general public. I would like Mr Speaker to listen to yesterday’s verbatim proceedings.

Hon. Opposition Members: Jean Kapata.

Mr Speaker: Again, for obvious reasons, I cannot make a ruling without carefully examining what happened yesterday. So, I reserve my ruling.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us have some order.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, the PF Government’s tactics of delaying a new Constitution are now confusing the people of Zambia who are now wondering if at all there is an animal-driven constitution. Would His Honour the Vice-President not agree with me that the people of Zambia are demanding for a people-driven Constitution because they are people and not animals?

The Vice-President: Sir, I have no idea what the hon. Lady is talking about. Perhaps, someone could provide a translation or we could move on to clearer issues.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker gave the Floor to Mr Ng’onga, but he remained seated.

Mr Speaker: It seems there is no question from the hon. Member for Kaputa.

Mr Chungu (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, I would like His Honour the Vice-President to comment …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker is His Honour the Vice-President in order to fail to answer the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala relating to comments that are in the public domain where His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, is on record as having stated that those who are advocating for a people-driven Constitution should tell us or tell him where on earth there is an animal-driven constitution. Is he, therefore, in order as His Honour the Vice-President to come here and pretend that he does not know what the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala is talking about when he knows very well that, as lawmakers, our primary mandate is to enact laws? The people out there are demanding a new Constitution and his Government and President are trivialising this matter. Is he in order to extend that level of trivialising serious issues to this serious House?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: As His Honour the Vice-President continues responding, I will request him to respond to that issue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chungu: Mr Speaker, the City of Lusaka has been listed amongst the ten worst cities to live in in the world. Cities such as Cairo and Tripoli are not among the ten listed cities. I would like His Honour the Vice-President to comment on this listing of Lusaka being the worst city to live in.

Mr Speaker: His Honour the Vice-President, as you respond to that question, please, comment on the people-driven Constitution issue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I looked up the references. They started with Zambia Reports quoting Economist Intelligence Unit. Zambia Reports is a publication generated, as far as we can see, by Robert Amsterdam’s firm in Canada. He is the lawyer to Rupiah Banda or his son. I have moved on to the Economist Intelligence Unit. In their main website there is no mention of Lusaka as a good or bad city by any standards. There is something from the London School of Economics applying a mathematical function to aerial photographs to try to assess how good cities are on the basis of how they sprawl, how much green space there is and so on and so forth plus some information about per capita incomes and everything else.

It is really very childish. You get some academic in London applying some weights to different factors …

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir.

The Vice-President: … and comes up with Lusaka in the list and publishes that information on the internet. They can do a lot of damage. People can withdraw from investing in Zambia. People cannot come here as tourists on the basis of completely unsupported irresponsible messing around or playing with computers …

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: On His Honour the Vice-President?

Takwaba.

The Vice-President: … if you would like me to clarify on the question of the hon. …

Mr Speaker: I wanted you to withdraw the word, “mess”.

The Vice-President: Well, I will say …

Hon. Opposition Members: Withdraw it.

The Vice-President: … experimenting with computers.

On the question of who is driving this Constitution, of course, it is the people. Who else is it supposed to be? I know there is a lot of cattle in Namwala, but it has not been consulted and will not be consulted.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, it is with great pain that I rise on a point of order on my elderman, His Honour the Vice-President, Dr Guy Scott. Sir, you are the Presiding Officer of this Legislative Assembly and everybody recognises that.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, just a second ago, you requested His Honour the Vice-President to withdraw the phrase, “messing up”, and he has defied your order …

Mr Muchima: Yes.

Mr Nkombo: … simply because he is the Vice-President of this country.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Is His Honour the Vice-President in order to defy your ruling to withdraw an unparliamentary phrase such as, “messing up” simply because he is the Vice-President?

Mr Speaker: When I interjected and advised him accordingly, he substituted it with the word “experimenting”.

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Hon. PF Member: English.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, at one time, the PF Government unleashed its military machinery on the people of Lukulu.

Dr Kaingu: Eeh!

Dr Kalila: A number of people were arrested as a result of the Barotse question. It is very clear that the Barotse question is a Constitutional issue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes

Dr Kalila: In order to lay this issue to rest, when is the Government going to release the Constitution?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker that question has been answered by the hon. Minister of Justice.

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Hon. Opposition Members: No.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: He is the engine for the delivery of the report to be delivered to His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata ...

Mr Kampyongo: Hear!

The Vice-President: … who is the person who gave the authority to the Technical Committee on Drafting the Zambian Constitution to do its work. We are waiting for the report. It is as simple as that. I resent and refute the implication that we do not wish to progress this matter at all.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, insincerity …

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I stand on a serious point of order. Are the hon. MMD …

Hon. MMD Members: Aah!

Mr Chilangwa: … Members of Parliament in order …

Hon. MMD Members: To do what?

Mr Chilangwa: … to continue allowing themselves to be used by the United Party for National Development (UPND) when it suits them?

Interruptions

Mr Chilangwa: They are sitting there smiling like everything …

Interruptions

Mr Chilangwa: … is in order when the UPND has stated as follows in The Post newspaper:

 “The MMD has become a spoiler.”

 I will lay the paper on the Table of the House.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Spoilers.

Mr Chilangwa laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Speaker: Order!

We have ruled and guided that as Presiding Officers, we have no remit or jurisdiction in the politics that are practised outside the House.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: That is outside our remit. Whether or not they are partnerships or horse-rider relationships, …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … they fall outside our remit.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, …

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to raise this point of order. Are the hon. Members from the Opposition in order to continue derailing the Business of this House over the Constitution, when there is evidence in this country that they gobbled a lot of money under the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Prof. Luo: … and failed to pass the Constitution?

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, for the record, since there was noise, let me repeat what I said. Are they in order to continue talking about the Constitution when it is well known by all Zambians that they received a lot of allowances for a long time at the NCC, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: … but failed to come up with a Constitution?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

As regards the issue of …

Mr Speaker: Order!

… disruption of proceedings, I indicated yesterday that I have since received formal complaints and this matter, as usual, like any other complaint, will be processed accordingly and with dispatch. In so far as the questions on the Constitution are concerned, since this is His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Speaker: Order!

… every hon. Member of Parliament is at liberty to ask whatever question.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, insincerity and insensitivity …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, what happened yesterday has never happened before. As such, I stand on a serious point of order. Members of your Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services …

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: You are just a hyena.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: … were also involved in that unruly behaviour yesterday.

Hon. Opposition Members: So?

Mr Lubinda: Some members.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, some members were involved. The hon. Members of Parliament for Monze Central, Mafinga, Nalikwanda and Mazabuka Central were involved in that unruly behaviour.

Hon. Government Member: Disorderly.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling on whether these members of your Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services will be allowed to sit when the proceedings of your Committee start.

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Chipili, you have run into a technicality.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Speaker: Order!

This is your second point of order and, according to our rules, it cannot be sustained.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us permit the hon. Member for Nalikwanda to complete his question.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, insensitivity and insincerity of the leaders to the led, almost everywhere and always, is the source of mistrust, loss of confidence and, in a democracy, leads to voting leaders out of power. Can His Honour the Vice-President tell the people of Zambia why his leadership has resorted to such a high degree of insensitivity and insincerity towards the people’s demand for an expeditious delivery of the Draft Constitution?

Interruptions

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I dispute the premise of his question, and that is that we have resorted to insensitivity and insincerity.  It is he and his friends …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … and relatives who are basically using this as an excuse for creating an opposition force, given that they have nothing else to complain about. I have clarified, and I would like to clarify one issue. Yesterday, the press misreported that we were going to issue a statement on the road map on Tuesday. It is not true. Our position is that we will attend any meeting of the Whips called by you, Mr Speaker, but we are not undertaking any action in the face of some sort of civic action by the Opposition. We are not going to act with a gun to our head.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

As we progress, let us bear in mind what our rules say about repetitious debates. I am making a cross-reference here. His Honour the Vice-President has crossed-referenced to a statement by the hon. Minister of Justice that was delivered before this House in response to a point of order. He explained what the Government’s position is in so far as the Constitution-making process is concerned. His Honour the Vice-President has been asked a number of questions on the same subject and he has been repeating himself in terms of responses, namely that, in so far as the Government is concerned, the way forward will be determined as and when the report is tendered to His Excellency the President. The hon. Minister of Justice is also on record as having stated that he is making arrangements with His Excellency the President for the report to be tendered. I am saying all this in order to avoid repetition of the same subject. This will not do the House any good. Therefore, if there is any question relating to what I have just summarised, I will not permit His Honour the Vice-President to answer it. However, he is at liberty to answer any other question.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for allowing me to rise on this very important point of order. There are Committees that help you to preside over this important institution …

Mr Mweetwa: What is your point of order?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Just pause, Hon. Kampyongo.

Hon. Member for Choma Central, it is not expected of you to do that. I know we have come from a very difficult period. However, we should conduct business with dignity.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that ruling. I was saying that you have important Committees that you have appointed to help you carry out your mandate as presiding officer of this important institution.

My point of order is centred on two important Committees. One of them is the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services. This is the Committee which helps you maintain the integrity of this important legislative arm of Government.

Sir, the events of yesterday and the day before in the Chamber, were unprecedented, as you described them. Unfortunately, some hon. Members of this important Committee participated in the disturbances. For the record, I will cite them as follows:

Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, Member for Parliament for Monze Central;

Hon. Garry Nkombo, Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central;

Mr Nkombo: You are a young boy.

 Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Mr Nkombo: Yes, he is a young boy.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Please, continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Kampyongo:

Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, Member of Parliament for Nalikwanda; and

Hon. Catherine Namugala, Member of Parliament for Mafinga.

Sir, these are very experienced hon. Members.

Mr Speaker, are they in order to conduct themselves in that manner? Is it in order in for them to continue serving on that important Committee?

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Secondly, Sir, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

I will only allow one point of order.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling for the purpose of the integrity of this dignified House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

I indicated earlier on that I have received a formal complaint. Your point of order relates to the complaint that is already before me. In fact, I have two formal complaints. As I indicated yesterday, we shall employ our structures in due course. I am mindful about the challenges that will come with the process in light of what you have said, but we should still allow this matter to be formerly processed and dealt with accordingly. Let us allow for that.

May the hon. Member for Chavuma continue, please.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, now that the by-election in Katuba is over, …

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Musonda: … is the Government going to continue with the Disaster Management Mitigation Unity (DMMU) projects in that constituency?

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Can we allow His Honour the Vice-President to respond without points of order.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the activities of the DMMU in Katuba or anywhere else respond to particular needs and their completion is independent of any election results.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, the food security of this country has been compromised …

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

There shall be no points of order until we complete this Session.

Please, continue.

Mr Kambwili: Long live the Chair!

Mr Kunda: … by the PF Government …

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Kunda: … because they have not finished delivering the inputs that they promised to deliver to date.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, this is a constitutional issue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kunda: When is His Honour the Vice-President going to finish delivering the fertiliser because this is touching on human rights?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have not seen the report on the Constitution yet, including the appendix which contains the Draft Constitution. However, I am quite certain that there is no bill of rights covering fertiliser, seed and farm implements. I think the hon. Questioner is getting a bit carried away with what constitutes the human rights for legal purposes.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, the Kabwe Industrial Fabrics Company (KIFCO) workers in Kabwe have gone for many months without salaries and there are rumours that the company will be closing soon. Is there something that the Government can do, through the ministries of Commerce, Trade and Industry and Labour and Social Security, to safeguard the interest of the people?

Hon. Opposition Members: It is constitutional.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the investor, together with the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) has refinanced KIFCO. They are installing new equipment and an agreement with the unions has been reached for the back-pay to be split so that 50 per cent is paid once the company is recapitalised and the other 50 per cent is built into the wage package. We expect all the workers who wish to return to KIFCO to be re-employed and new ones to be employed. That is the current situation.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, during his visit to the Western Province on 20th October, 2012, His Honour the Vice-President raised the hopes of the people of Barotseland by telling them that the Barotseland issue would be resolved and that the Barotseland Agreement would be honoured. Honouring the Barotseland Agreement is not about secession.

Sir, on 18th April, 2013, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa asked a question on the Floor of this House on the Barotseland Agreement and what President Michael Chilufya Sata mentioned in the Western Province during his campaign on the restoration of the Barotseland Agreement.

Mr Ndalamei: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President on the Floor of this House, said, that he did not know anything about that. How does he reconcile what he told the people of the Western Province on 20th October, 2012 with his response on the Floor of this House to Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa’s question? Was he misleading this House?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, this is a convoluted question and I am not quite sure what the hon. Lady is driving at.

Interruptions

The Vice-President: We have had many statements and comments in this House about the so-called Barotseland Agreement. What we have said is that when the new Constitution is eventually agreed, the status of other traditional kingdoms or chieftaincies in Zambia needs to be taken into account at the same time. It is a very open question, but we cannot treat one part of Zambia as if it was something halfway towards an independent state while we still have not worked out what the devolutionary structure of the other parts is. So, it is work-in-progress, madam, as I am sure you are aware.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, at what stage is the Draft Constitution?

Interruptions  

Mr Speaker: I think I have given guidance on that, hon. Member for Senanga.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, there is a condition known as Attention Deficiency Disorder (ADD).

Ms Imenda: Aah!

Laughter

Ms Imenda rose on a point of order.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Continue, hon.  Member.

Mr Mufalali: This is a condition that is found in human beings.

Sir, going by what has transpired in the nation, where parties seem not to pay attention to a lot of issues that the citizens are demanding, when will the Government change the system of His Honour the Vice-President coming to answer questions by bringing the President himself, as the Chief Executive of the nation, because that is the common ‘prakatis’ in the Commonwealth …

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Yes, it is a common ‘prakatis’ in the Commonwealth.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: When will the President come to the House so that we can ask him questions like we ask His Honour the Vice-President?

Mr Speaker: Comment on that practice.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: ‘Prakatis’.

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether the fracas or ‘prakas’ …

Laughter

The Vice-President: ... of the Vice-President answering questions in the House is currently constitutional. However, it is my constitutional responsibility to attempt to understand where the ADD is when hon. Members ask me questions. If the Draft Constitution happens to have the President’s Question Time, then, we will debate it or it will be considered whatever happens to that roadmap.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, are there any plans to revise the electoral code of conduct to curb violence during elections and other ‘malprakatises’?

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think one of the problems we have in this country regarding the conduct of elections …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: … is that the ‘malpracas’ – malpractice in elections …

Laughter

The Vice-President: … tends to be treated by our system …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: Disputes about elections tend to be treated as civil matters in Zambia, which is to say, they get low priority of the courts’ time. The onus is on various parties that feel aggrieved to take the matter to court and bring witnesses.

Sir, my view on this, and I think it is beginning to gain some traction in our Government, but has not got to any formal stage yet, is that the malpractices in elections are criminal matters and should be treated as such. They are frauds practised upon the people of Zambia. They are injuries to the voting public and are against their rights to have their views and those of the people of their choice representing them heard.

Sir, for example, in Britain, there are various regulations such as the maximum amount of money for each candidate to spend. If you go over that by 2 and 6, the police arrest you, take you to court and imprison you and you leave your seat in the House vacant. There is a big difference between treating election malpractices as criminal matters and as disputes over the parentage of a child or something like that which would be a civil matter. That is all I can say at this point.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, on several occasions, His Excellency the President has told the people of Zambia that there is already a Constitution in Zambia which works well and, therefore, there is no need to worry about a new Constitution. From the President’s statements, the understating of the people is that we should forget about a new Constitution.

Sir, does the PF Government consider itself more important than the 13 million Zambians who feel this Constitution needs to be redrafted and have spent money and time participating in this exercise? Do they feel they are more important than the 13 million Zambians?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the President did not say that we need not worry about a new Constitution. He merely pointed out that there is no vacuum that we are filling with a whole new Constitution. If you want to change the Constitution, then, bringing amendments may be one of the routes towards doing that. If you are interested in the 50 percent plus one majority vote, for example, then bring it to the House or ask us to bring it to the House. He has not said that we are not going ahead with the Constitution review or change. That is a misrepresentation, as the hon. Member of Liuwa knows and it is typical of him.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, the Republican President has indicated that people in the Executive should ignore anyone talking about the Constitution. The hon. Minister of Justice has indicated to this House that he is going to consult the President on the date that the Draft Constitution should be handed to him.

Sir, what is the relevance in consulting somebody who has said that those calling for a new Constitution should be ignored?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, perhaps, this should be called constitutional matters question time. I fail to understand his problem. We have said where we are and how we are proceeding. I do not understand the thrust of that question. We have not said anything is irrelevant. We have spelt out what we are doing about the Constitution and the Opposition is deliberately misconstruing our position. They are looking for zero co-operation from us.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, fear and respect are two things. Do you fear or respect the President?

Hon. Opposition Member: None of the above.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, as you know, I respect the President.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwamba entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: GMB!

__________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

MODERN MARKETS FOR SOLWEZI AND MUMBEZHI

375. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when the Government would construct modern markets in Solwezi and Mumbezhi following the increase in population in the two areas due to mining activities.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kufuna): Mr Speaker, Mumbezhi is not among the areas that have been allocated funding in the current fiscal year. However, the district council is advised, through the hon. Member of Parliament, to plan for a market and submit its requests for support containing designs and a priced bill of quantities to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing that will be considered subject to the availability of funds.

Sir, the ministry intends to construct a multi-storey market in Solwezi District and is currently in the process of procuring a consultant for the design of the market.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, the question is: When are you going to commence the procurement?

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, the procurement has already started and the process has reached the Ministerial Procurement Committee (MPC) that is supposed to approve the contract.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, it is evident that every district or constituency, in one way or the other, needs a market. Do you, therefore, have any plan, as a ministry, to construct markets in the various districts?

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Prof. Luo) (on behalf of The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mrs Kabanshi)): Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Members of Parliament realise that the demand for infrastructure development in this country is huge because we took over from a Government that did very little.

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: Sir, our plans are on the table and we will share them with hon. Members of Parliament as and when their districts are being planned for.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, most of the markets have been built at a great expense. However, in some places, people are trading outside the markets. Can we start thinking of other alternative places for people to trade from instead of building huge structures which may not be utilised even after spending so much money constructing them.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware of this challenge. As you know, this demands a change of mindset among our people. Apart from the fact that we are planning for the future because it is desirable that people trade from the markets, we are also cognisant of the fact that we need to conduct a huge campaign in the country as we know behavioural change is a process.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, please, tell me, from your heart of hearts, whether it is true that you are advocating for a change of mindset when, at the point when you took over Government, the hon. Minister of Justice said that your Government is on record as having done that and that there have been several statements made by the substantive hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing on how you intend to institutionalise street vending in this country. If you go into Cairo Road, Opposite Shoprite, it is evident that trading is now rampant. Vendors are even selling fresh meat products there. Are you being honest by saying that you are trying to advocate for a change of mindset for people to go back into the markets when you have also failed to drive people back into that super structure at Nakadoli Market in Kitwe that the MMD built during its time in office?

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, in this honourable House, it is not right for us to dwell on innuendos and reports in the press.

Interruptions

Prof. Luo: Sir, this is an issue that is on our table, as the Government, and we are doing something about it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, when is the Government going to control markets where agents are selling farm produce on behalf of people by force? For example, if you go to Soweto Market to sell tomatoes, someone will sell the tomatoes on your behalf by force.

Laughter

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for bringing that to our attention. Since we do not sell at the markets, we have no idea that that is what is happening. Now that we know, we will do something about it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the concept of markets in Africa and …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I apologise to Hon. Lubinda for interrupting his debate.

Mr Speaker, the use of the Queen’s language, English, requires competence and I am very sure that Prof. Luo is a competent human being and has a great command of the Queen’s language. The word, “innuendo”, for the benefit of those who may not know what it means, …

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: … means statements that are not backed with facts. In my question to her, I referred to things that were said on the Floor of this House. I can quote the hon. Minister of Justice. He said:

“Our people are desirous of having to be given a chance to conduct economic business. We need a moratorium and time to allow them to trade because they have to make ends meet.”

Sir, that is not an innuendo. It is something that was said. Hon. Kabanshi is also on record as having said on the Floor of this House that the Government was designing a Vendor Policy. Is she, therefore, in order to insinuate that I work on innuendos when I work on statements of fact?

I need a ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: As the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing continues to respond, she should, please, clarify that position.

The hon. Member for Kabwata may continue.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted by that point of order, I was building up my question by saying that the concept of markets in Africa and Zambia in particular, is one of a stall made of either concrete or other such material from which women sell cabbages and tomatoes. Is there any law that prohibits councils or the private sector from engaging in the construction of spaces such as those that were provided for at the Woodlands Shopping Centre? If there is no law that stops the private sector from participating in such ventures, is the ministry considering encouraging partnering with the private sector to ensure that the spaces are adequately provided for the people who need them?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister should bear in mind the point I made in relation to the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, in fact, the issues that have been raised by the hon. Member for Kabwata are being discussed at the ministry. The desirable designs have been put forward for consideration. The spaces have been identified where this possibility could take place.

Sir, coming back to the point of order raised by Hon. Gary Nkombo, if I heard him correctly, he referred to the issue of time when he quoted the hon. Minister of Justice’s statement. My answer was that we are doing all we can and, amongst the actions we are taking, is a campaign for a change of mindset so that our people can start trading from the markets. He also talked about a vendor policy. Let me take this opportunity to say that if you are developing a vendor policy, issues regarding how vending will be done will be considered in that policy. I would like to state that in the United States of America (USA) and the United Kingdom (UK), that is where there are Sunday markets, afternoon markets, Tuesday markets and other types of markets. So, as the policy is being developed, all such issues will be taken into consideration. There is no difference between what the substantive hon. Minister said and what the hon. Minister of Justice said.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: What about the issue of innuendos?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the complaint from the point of order is in relation to the use of the word “innuendo”. That is the complaint from your colleague.

Prof. Luo: Mr Speaker, I did not say that the innuendos are from the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central, but that we should not be dwelling on innuendos from the press.

I thank you, Sir.

MAIZE EXPORTS TO NEIGHBOURING COUNTRIES

376. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a) what the rationale for exporting maize to neighbouring countries instead of processed mealie-meal was; and

(b) how the export of maize had affected Zambia.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Sir, given that Zambia has recorded maize bumper harvests for the past four consecutive years, it was prudent to export the surplus maize to the neighbouring countries that experienced maize shortfalls. In addition, exports should be seen in the context of capturing a market share and taking the lead in the regional markets that will enhance the growth of Zambia’s agriculture sector. Currently, Zambia is also exporting mealie-meal to some of its neighbouring countries through some of our millers.

Mr Speaker, Zambia is now a preferred source of maize in the region and beyond. Zambia has experienced positive effects in the acquired market share as well as foreign exchange earnings. Further, in the medium to long term, the country’s agriculture sector is expected to grow in response to the rising demand for maize and maize products within the region.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that Zambia has become a preferred source of this commodity to the neighbouring countries. I would like to find out from him what plans the Government has put in place in order to encourage, especially the commercial farmers, to be involved in the production of this crop so that we can take charge of the markets around Zambia.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, we are on record as having stated, on the Floor of this House, that we would like to increase productivity and production, particularly in the case of maize. It is gratifying to note that some of our commercial farmers who had stopped growing maize have now started growing it because they realise that there is a good market for grain. So, that is how we are proceeding and we will continue to encourage people to get involved in the production of various crops, particularly maize.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to know how the Government intends to improve on the exportation of grain when it is on record as having failed to distribute fertiliser to all parts of this country.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, it is not right for the hon. Member to suggest that we have failed to distribute farm inputs. The truth of the matter is that, yes, there was a delay in the distribution of inputs, but we have so far delivered them. Those of us who are in the ministry spend very little time at the ministry’s headquarters because most of the time we are in the field to see what is happening. So, going forward, we will encourage people to move into the farming blocks which we want to establish in all the ten provinces. We think that initiative will help us to get more people involved in growing more maize so that we can take advantage of this yawning market.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, how much money has the Government raised from the maize exports?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, I do not have that figure readily available, but if the hon. Member does not mind, we could avail it to him if he came to our offices.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, the measure of failure or success is a function of an invigilator or he/she who sets the examination. The other year, the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, Hon. Robert Sichinga, did something that was remarkable and honourable by tendering a public apology for the pitfalls and shortcomings of the distribution of inputs. This year, our anticipation was that they would improve. However, we have seen that there is no improvement. The example that I can give is the distribution of inputs at the end of February which is a signal of failure.

Is the hon. Minister considering coming up with another statement similar to the one he made the other year to give Zambians hope that the PF Government, which is still on job on training, is going to thrive to improve its service delivery to the people of Zambia?

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Sichinga): Sir, firstly, I would like to say that the reason I, as Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, made a statement in this House in 2013, was to indicate the challenges that had been faced with regard to the various procurement challenges which were not caused by the Government. So, let us be clear about that part.

I hope that in future, Sir, this will not be perceived as the Government’s acknowledgement of failure to deliver. That is not the case, Hon. Nkombo.

Sir, towards the 2013/2014 growing season, all the D-compound fertiliser was delivered to all the districts that were targeted for delivery by the Government under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) by September, 2013. We had completed that process in most of the districts except the ten that were supposed to be covered under the Electronic Voucher System. Those are the only districts that were not given, but the fertiliser was delivered to the farmers before the onset of the rains.

Sir, I informed this House of the progress that we were making. In relation to top dressing, I said, in my statement, that the plan of the Government was to complete the distribution by 31st December, 2013. It is not true that we were distributing Urea towards the end of February, 2014. All the deliveries of Urea were completed in January, 2014.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Sichinga: Sir, I am on record as having come to this House and provided facts and figures relating to the distribution of inputs. If there is any area that did not receive the inputs like Namwala, the issue was raised whilst I was out of the country, but that was in January. I am prepared to engage with any hon. Member from an area where there were delays in input distribution. It is not a general failure at all.

Sir, we are not learning on the job. Hon. Garry Nkombo has never been a Minister. Therefore, we cannot say that he is learning to be an hon. Member of Parliament.

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister …

Mr Sichinga: Sir, I am responding because a question was raised. Therefore, I have the right to respond.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, as you know, the rules of this House refrain us from debating individuals. A concept has been raised. Therefore, just address that concept.

Mr Sichinga: Sir, you allowed him to raise the issue specifically on this hon. Minister.

Interruptions

Mr Sichinga: I am responding. I think both sides should be allowed to respond. You cannot allow one side only to answer. It is not right.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, I think you have missed the point. The point was in relation to the party and Government and the hon. Member said that you are on job on training. All I am saying is that according to our rules, we do not debate ourselves individually. Deal with the concept, hon. Minister.

Mr Sichinga: Sir, I think both sides should give their views. I feel that this is important because I need to respond if an issue is raised and my name is mentioned.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, you still have the Floor. Just explain your position.

Mr Sichinga: Sir, I have explained in detail and you are also aware that I came to this House and provided this information. I have said that if there is any area that has experienced delays in receiving inputs, we are prepared to deal with it, but you cannot make a general statement in this case.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock should take it easy. He should not get annoyed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Could the hon. Member for Chadiza leave the hon. Minister alone. He is through with his job.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, hon. Minister, how do you rate yourself? Please, give an honest answer because Zambians are listening. Do you think the distribution of inputs was very good, fair or poor?

Mr Speaker: Order!

I hope the hon. Member for Chadiza has not directed the question to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock as an individual.

Mr Mbewe: I am addressing this concern to the Government.

Mr Speaker: You are directing your concern to the Government.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I think the distribution of inputs has been quite good. It is our view that a lot more needs to be done in order to ensure that the system is perfected but, on average, I would like to tell the hon. Member that the distribution of inputs has been quite good under the circumstances. In fact, it has been much better under this Government.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune: Question!

___________

MOTION

REPORT OF THE PARLIAMENTARY SELECT COMMITTEE APPOINTED TO SCRUTINISE THE PRESIDENTIAL APPOINTMENTS OF JUSTICE EVANS MWEEMBANI HAMAUNDU AND JUSTICE ALBERT MARK WOOD TO SERVE AS SUPREME COURT JUDGES AND JUDGE BETTY MWAKA MAJULA MUNG’OMBA, MRS CHILOMBO MAKA-PHIRI, MR MWILA CHITABO, SC., MR WILLIAM SMITH MWEEMBA AND MR CHARLES CHANDA TO SERVE AS PUISNE JUDGES

Dr Lungu (Chama North): Mr Speaker, I be to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Select Committee appointed to scrutinise the Presidential appointments of Justice Evans Mweembani Hamaundu and Justice Albert Mark Wood to serve as Supreme Court Judges and Judge Betty Mwaka Majula Mung’omba, Mrs Chilombo Maka-Phiri, Mr Mwila Chitabo, SC., Mr William Smith Mweemba and Mr Charles Chanda to serve as Puisne Judges.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I wish to second the Motion.

Dr Lungu: Mr Speaker, the appointments of Justices Hamaundu and Wood are made pursuant to Article 93(2) to the Constitution Cap I of the Laws of Zambia. On the other hand, the appointment of Judge Betty Mwaka Majula Mung’omba, Mrs Chilombo Maka-Phiri, Mr Mwila Chitabo, SC., Mr William Smith Mweemba and Mr Charles Chanda are made pursuant to the provisions of Article 95(I) of the Constitution.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, let me hasten to state that your Committee recognised the critical role played by the Judiciary in the governance of our country. With this recognition, your Committee set out to ensure that persons appointed to serve as Supreme Court and High Court Judges should be qualified, competent and with unquestionable integrity and commitment to the promotion of justice for all.

Sir, above all, your Committee sought to be satisfied that persons to be appointed to the Bench should be committed and ready to contribute to the speedy dispensation of justice as the issue of delaying the conclusion of cases is one of the biggest complaints by members of the public against the Judiciary. In this regard, your Committee carefully selected the witnesses to assist to scrutinise the suitability of nominees. The witnesses made both oral and written submissions to your Committee.

Further, your Committee interviewed the nominees and carefully studied their curriculum vitae.

Mr Speaker, your Committee found that all the nominees possessed the minimum qualifications prescribed in the Constitution for one to be appointed as High Court or Supreme Court Judge as the case may be.

Further, submissions from the State security agencies indicated that there were no adverse security traces against any of the nominees.

Mr Speaker, allow me, now, to briefly outline the findings of your Committee on each of the nominees:

Justice Evans Mweembani Hamaundu

Mr Speaker, your Committee learnt that the nominee was a lawyer of thirty years standing at the Zambian Bar, having been admitted in 1984. Since his admission to the Bar, Judge Hamaundu had worked in various capacities as a lawyer.

Sir, concerns were raised by some witnesses that the nomination of Judge Hamaundu, to serve as a Judge of the Supreme Court, was ill-timed due to the fact that it came when he was chairing the tribunal that was established to probe the hon. Minister of Justice, and that this might lead to a public perception that his nomination was a reward by the Executive so that he could influence the outcome of the tribunal in favour of the hon. Minister.

Mr Speaker, it was submitted by some witnesses that since the process of appointing Judges commenced way back, the nominee was, therefore, aware of his looming appointment as Supreme Court Judge. As such, it was suggested that Judge Hamaundu should have recused himself from serving on the tribunal in order to avoid negative perceptions on his appointment. Your Committee, however, noted that the tribunal comprised three independent and senior Judges, meaning that decisions of the tribunal were by a majority decision of the members. Hence, your Committee was of the view that it was far-fetched to assert that Judge Hamaundu would influence the other members of the tribunal. In addition, your Committee noted that being an administrative structure, the decision of the tribunal was appealable to the High Court. Therefore, your Committee saw no reason for Judge Hamaundu to recuse himself from the tribunal. On the contrary, if Judge Hamaundu had been hearing the case as a single Judge, it would have been prudent for him to recuse himself.

Sir, your Committee, after interacting with the nominee and studying his curriculum vitae, was satisfied that the nominee had never been influenced by anyone or driven by public opinion in the execution of his adjudicative functions.

Mr Speaker, your Committee is satisfied that the nominee is a suitable person to serve as judge of the Supreme Court, having served as High Court Judge since May, 2003 and Acting Supreme Court Judge since October, 2012, effectively. The nominee is not only eminently qualified and well experienced for the position, but he has also distinguished himself as a fearless Judge. He will, indeed, be an added asset to the Supreme Court Bench.

Justice Albert Mark Wood

Mr Speaker, your Committee noted that the nominee was called to the Bar in 1984 and had practised law as a private legal practitioner for twenty three years before his appointment as Judge of the High Court in 2008. He has served as High Court Judge for six years. The nominee has accumulated enormous experience and distinguished himself as both a good legal practitioner and Judge. This was evidenced by the fact that few of the nominee’s judgments were overturned on appeal. Your Committee noted that Judge Wood’s vast experience …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!

Dr Lungu: … as a private legal practitioner was biased towards commercial law and that this will be beneficial to the Supreme Court since most matters pending before it are civil in nature.

Sir, during its deliberations, your Committee learnt that there was a complaint against Judge Wood lodged to the Judicial Complaints Authority by the Zambian Voice, which was pending determination. Without prejudice to the proceedings before the authority, your Committee was satisfied that there was no impropriety on the part of the Judge in testifying before the Lovemore Chikopa Tribunal.

Mr Speaker, your Committee was satisfied that the nominee testified as a witness before the tribunal as any law-abiding citizen would do, and there was absolutely nothing wrong with this conduct in the matter. In noting that all the witnesses, including his critics, attested that the nominee is a fine Judge, your Committee agrees that he will add value to the Bench.

Judge Betty Mwaka Majula Mung’omba

Sir, your Committee noted that the nominee joined the Judiciary in 1994 as a resident magistrate and rose to the rank of principal resident magistrate. In 1999, the nominee resigned, but, in 2006, she rejoined the Judiciary upon being appointed Judge of the Industrial Relations Court where she is currently Acting Chairperson of the Industrial Relations Court.

Mr Speaker, your Committee noted that the nominee had been fair and impartial in the execution of her duties as an adjudicator and would bring to the High Court Bench her valuable experience. Your Committee is satisfied that the nominee is hard-working and has not been associated with delayed judgments or corrupt practices.

Mrs Chilombo Maka-Phiri

Mr Speaker, your Committee noted that the nominee joined the Judiciary as an adjudicator upon leaving the University of Zambia (UNZA), rising through the ranks from magistrate class II to her current position of Deputy Registrar. In the various positions that she held during her tour of duty, she had performed both adjudicative and administrative functions. As a result of her many years of service in the Judiciary, she has undergone various training programmes aimed at improving the performance of the Judiciary.

Sir, your Committee received some concerns from various stakeholders that the nominee had exhibited a lack of independence in the manner she wrote a letter to the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) relating to the election petitions in Mulobezi, Petauke Central and Malambo Parliamentary constituencies. The stakeholders submitted that since the nominee had accepted to execute the instructions of her superiors in the Judiciary, on this matter, she possessed a weak character and, thus, could not be trusted to act with impartiality as a Judge. Upon investigating the facts surrounding the matter, your Committee established that when the nominee wrote to the ECZ, she was not performing an adjudicative, but administrative function for which she was answerable to her superiors in the Judiciary.

In light of the foregoing, your Committee found that the nominee is well qualified and of suitable character to be appointed Judge of the High Court. Your Committee is of the view that her experience as a magistrate and administrative skills will put her in good stead to take on the responsibility of High Court Judge. Your Committee, therefore, fully supports the appointment of the nominee to serve as Puisne Judge and implores the House to support her too.

Mr Mwila Chitabo, SC.

Your Committee noted that the nominee has practised law for over thirty years as a private legal practitioner. He has handled many cases covering various branches of the law. Over the years, he has interacted with many lawyers and Judges and has accumulated vast experience in the Zambian justice delivery system. The nominee has also contributed considerably to the development of the law in Zambia through several landmark cases he has handled. Your Committee is satisfied that having distinguished himself as a private legal practitioner, the nominee will be an asset to the Judiciary.

Mr William Smith Mweemba

Mr Speaker, your Committee noted that the nominee was a lawyer of thirty-two years standing at the bar. He graduated from UNZA in December, 1980 and had worked in Government before joining the private sector. In 2004, the nominee went into private legal practice and is currently a partner in Mweemba, Chashi and Partners. Apart from his work as a legal practitioner, the nominee had also been actively involved in the work of the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ), serving on various committees of the association and holding the position of honorary secretary and president of the association for considerable periods of time.

Your Committee noted, further, that the nominee was a fully-qualified arbitrator and secretary to the Zambian Association of Arbitrators. As an arbitrator, he was requested to come up with arbitral awards, which are very similar to court judgments. The nominee also currently serves as a Commissioner of the Small Claims Court.

In view of the foregoing, your Committee is of the view that if this appointment is ratified, the nominee will bring to the Bench important skills and attributes gained from his many years of legal practice. Further, the nominee would not be entering a completely new environment as he was already working as an adjudicator in the Small Claims Court. Therefore, the nominee is not only adequately qualified, but sufficiently experienced to execute the functions of the office of a Puisne Judge.

Mr Charles Chanda

Mr Speaker, your Committee noted that the nominee obtained a bachelor of laws degree from UNZA in 1995 and was admitted to the Zambian Bar in 1996. The nominee is a legal practitioner licensed to practice law in Zambia and Namibia. In terms of professional work experience, the nominee has worked as a private legal practitioner which culminated in the formation of his law firm, C. C. Chambers, in 2003.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Dr Lungu: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was speaking about Mr Charles Chanda. The nominee worked as a tutor in the School of Law at UNZA. He also served as a member of the Board of Directors of the Foundation for Democratic Process (FODEP) as a well as a member of the Law Reform and Research Committee of LAZ. Furthermore, he has conducted a number of research assignments in the field of law.

Mr Speaker, your Committee is of the view that the Judiciary will benefit from the nominee’s youthful skills and knowledge gained from his private practice and exposure to work in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region if his appointment is ratified. Your Committee is confident that with the experience that the nominee has obtained over the years, he will discharge the duties and responsibilities of a Puisne Judge effectively.

Sir, in conclusion, your Committee did not find any information against the suitability of any of the nominees to be appointed to their respective positions.

Therefore, your Committee recommends to this august House to ratify the Presidential appointments of Justice Evans Mweembani Hamaundu and Justice Albert Mark Wood to serve as Supreme Court Judges and Judge Betty Mwaka Majula Mung’omba, Mrs Chilombo Maka-Phiri, Mr Mwila Chitabo, SC., Mr William Smith Mweemba and Mr Charles Chanda to serve as Puisne Judges.

Finally, Sir, your Committee wishes to put on record its gratitude for the services rendered to it by the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly. Above all the Members wish to express their appreciation to you, Mr Speaker, for appointing them to serve on this Select Committee. Your Committee is equally grateful to all the witnesses that appeared before it and provided valuable information that assisted the Committee in making an informed recommendation to the House.

Mr Speaker, it is now my pleasure to call upon this House to ratify the appointments before it.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I wish to begin by paying tribute to my young brother, the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, Mr Kalaba, for the statement that he made on the forests, especially in Barotseland which are being ravaged by loggers.

Mr Mushanga: Young brother?

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, thank you for according me the opportunity to second this important Motion before the House. Sir, I note that, the mover of the Motion has sufficiently addressed the important issues that are in your Committee’s report. I also want to believe that hon. Members have read the report of your Committee so that their debate shall be based on the information in your Committee’s report. I shall, therefore, be brief in seconding the Motion on the Floor of the House.

Sir, I want to begin by stating that your Committee thoroughly interrogated the witnesses as well as the nominees and upon a critical analysis of the evidence that was before it, your Committee found that all the nominees are suitably qualified to serve in the offices they have been appointed to.

Sir, as the Chairperson pointed out, some witnesses had reservations on the appointment of Justice Evans Mweembani Hamaundu, Justice Albert Mark Wood as Supreme Court Judges and Mrs Chilombo Maka-Phiri as Puisne Judge. In conducting its inquiries, your Committee observed that the rejection of the trio was based on public perception. Some of the witnesses submitted that the appointment of Justice Evans Mweembani Hamaundu was ill-timed, as mentioned by the mover of the Motion, as it would be perceived as a reward for chairing the tribunal that probed Hon. Wynter Kabimba.

Secondly, Justice Albert Mark Wood’s appointment was perceived as a reward for appearing as a State witness in the Lovemore Chikopa Tribunal established to probe the three suspended Judges. Further, Sir, witnesses opposed the appointment of Mrs Chilombo Maka-Phiri as Puisne Judge on the grounds that she wrote a letter to the Electoral Commission of Zambia directing it to bar some Members of Parliament from re-contesting their seats following their nullification by the courts and thereby interpreted the Electoral Law in a letter.

Mr Speaker, with respect to Judge Hamaundu, I want to state that your Committee found no ethical grounds upon which he should have recused himself and I am sure that, if the House has read your Committee’s report, it will agree with your Committee’s findings. Your Committee further established that the nominee was not being rewarded in any way as his appointment was based purely on his qualifications, experience and competence to serve as a Supreme Court Judge.

Mr Speaker, with respect to Judge Albert Mark Wood, again, the perception that he was being rewarded for his testimony on behalf of the State in the Lovemore Chikopa Tribunal was very difficult to substantiate. As you are aware, it is a legal requirement for any citizen to abide by summons and that is what Judge Wood did.

 Further, as a witness, he was required to testify on facts surrounding the alleged misconduct of the three Judges that he was privy to. The proceedings of the tribunal have not been completed due to an appeal for judicial review that has been lodged before the courts. Thus, with the court proceedings pending, it was thought that Justice Albert Mark Wood was being appeased since the tribunal was yet to determine the fate of the three Judges. The perception that Judge Albert Mark Wood was being rewarded is equally misconceived.

Mr Speaker, on Mrs Chilombo Maka-Phiri, your Committee established that the perception that was in the public domain that the nominee had authored a letter to the Electoral Commission of Zambia directing them not to accept the nominations from three Members of Parliament who wished to re-contest their seats was inaccurate.

Mr Speaker, after closely studying the matter and interrogating the nominee, your Committee established that, following the issuance of a press statement by the Judiciary on the law which bars an MP from re-contesting his or her seat where the seat was nullified on grounds of corrupt or illegal practices, the Office of the Registrar of the High Court received communication from ECZ to the effect that they required official communication as regards the position of the Judiciary on the matter.

In this regard, the nominee, in her capacity as Acting Registrar of the High Court, wrote a letter to the ECZ merely forwarding the press statement. She also wrote a letter to the Director of Elections, in which she merely replicated the contents of the press statement and her role as Registrar, as can be found on page 33 of our report. Allow me to quote from our report, on page 33, third paragraph and second sentence. She said “Therefore, there is no requirement by the High Court to render a report to either the Electoral Commission of Zambia or the Director of Public Prosecutions after pronouncement of a judgment by the Supreme Court.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, all these letters showing the trail of correspondence were availed to your Committee for scrutiny and upon investigating the circumstances in which the nominee wrote the letters in question, your Committee was satisfied and convinced that the nominee was performing an administrative function as Registrar of the High Court. Your Committee further established that she acted in accordance with the demands of her office which required her to follow all lawful directives given to her by her superiors. Based on the foregoing, your Committee found that the nominee was well qualified and of suitable character to be appointed to the High Court Bench.

Mr Speaker, you will note that the witnesses based their decisions to oppose the appointment of the three nominees on mere perceptions which were not backed by facts. While appreciating that public perception is very important as it assists in instilling public confidence in the Judiciary, it is also important that information that is transmitted to the public is correct and accurate so that innocent citizens are not injured or unduly disadvantaged, more so for Judges who are not in a position to defend themselves.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to thank the Chairperson of your Committee for the efficient, impartial, and fair manner in which he presided over your Committee’s meetings and all the members of your Committee for their unity and hard work during the deliberations.

Mr Speaker, may I end my speech by urging this august House to support the Motion on the Floor.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I beg to second the Motion.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, allow me to make my maiden speech.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: What is your name?

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the people of Katuba Constituency for bringing me to this House. My victory in Katuba, under the UPND should be a wake-up call for the PF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, it is a wake-up call for all those who were thinking they were in a very positive situation because they have acknowledged that there is something wrong. The people of Katuba have sent me here to deliver a message that everything is not well. There is a vacuum of leadership, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: … there is maladministration …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: … and they want to tell the Government that this country belongs to the people of Zambia and not to a clique of individuals who think that this country nca bamanyina wabo.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, that language is not acceptable.

Hon. Members: What does it mean?

Mr Speaker: Order!

It is not acceptable. You have been here before. So, you know the rules.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, there are issues which came out of the Katuba By-election, and which the nation has to know about. There was the issue of intimidation. I think that it was cheap for a leader of this House and Government hon. Ministers to go and intimidate the people of Katuba by telling them that if they voted for a candidate of their choice, development would not go to Katuba Constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, we are not looking for the PF’s development agenda or money. We are not looking for the President’s money. We have got a stake in the national cake …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: … and as the people of Katuba, we realise that we have contributed a lot to this country, and we are members of the great family of Zambia and, as such, we need to be respected and to get a share of the national cake.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I think that people have not believed in the spirit of multi-partyism. People want to take us back to the one party State.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, it is very unfortunate for the PF to think that we can allow them to take the nation back to the 17th Century

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Look at them.

Mr Shakafuswa: I think this is very shameful because there have been strides that the people of Zambia have made towards democracy, and the tenets of democracy have to be upheld all the time.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, people have talked about violence in by-elections. These incidents of violence are being perpetuated by the PF.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, the PF has a militia. It is using people from Intercity Bus Terminus and Chibolya as their militia to intimidate people. As citizens, we have the right to defend ourselves.

Mr Speaker, this is actually being controlled by His Honour the Vice-President and State House, and I have facts thereon.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Shakafuswa: Yes! 

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Shakafuswa: What question?

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Katuba …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

May I have order on my right, please.

Hon. Member, it is not for me to prescribe the content of your maiden speech but, please, in your judgment, carefully address the issues you would like to, and also in that regard, and in keeping with the tradition of the House, be as factual and as objective as possible.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, we had incidences where twenty-eight people were beaten. We reported this issue to the police, and I want to commend the hon. Minister of Home Affairs because, this time, the police, under his leadership, were very professional.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: This is a departure from the past. The police who came to Katuba were professional and I think they are a reflection of the ability of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: I want to commend the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, we reported these cases, but the police were incapacitated. They could not do any arrests even when the perpetrators of the crimes were identified.

Sir, on the day of voting, a certain hon. Minister came to the constituency with a group of individuals who were beating perceived UPND supporters.

Mr Sikazwe: Walipena!

Hon. Opposition Members: Sikazwe! Sikazwe!

Mr Shakafuswa: I do not think this hon. Minister qualifies for this important function because he reduced himself to the level of a cadre.

Interruptions

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, we have documented the incidences which occurred in Muchenje and Chipeso where our cadres were beaten up. We have presented this document to the police.

Mr Sikazwe interjected.

Mr Shakafuswa: Hon. Minister, we deserve the right to defend ourselves. We are not going to degenerate. If you use thugs to threaten the peace and security of the Zambians, we, as hon. Members of Parliament, are going to come in and defend the people of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: This has been evidenced. For example, in South America, guns are used to intimidate people, but they refused to be intimidated. This was evident in Katuba where your militia failed terribly.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: I want to commend the police. When we gave them information about the three busloads of thugs who came with weapons, they laid an ambush for these buses. They found guns, machetes, stones and sjamboks on these buses.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Interruptions

Mr Shakafuswa: These are facts.

Mr Speaker, they were lucky …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Please, continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: … that our defence team did not take action. Otherwise, it was going to be the end of your militias.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Katuba, address the Speaker.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, this is a lesson to this failing PF Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: The people of Zambia will decide. For your information, and this is free advice. people will judge you according to what you are doing. You do not use violence to show your position or to impose your will on the people. If you do a good job and the right thing, the people will support you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: You are trying to use violence because of your shortcomings and inefficiency. You want to use violence as a tool to silence the people of Zambia, but they will not be silenced.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, the PF, with its administrative machinery, has failed to instill discipline in its party. The Secretary-General is on record as having said that the PF is the most undisciplined party and that it is the most tribal party.

Interruptions

Mr Shakafuswa: They now want to bring their tribalism to our areas. However, in Katuba, people have refused tribal colonialism. In Central Province, we have refused tribal colonialism where a certain small tribe wants its language to be learnt by young boys and girls in primary schools. That is very cheap.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: We are a proud people, and the results in Katuba shows that the people of Zambia are not going to succumb to tribal colonialism.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: We will not.

Mr Speaker, we have noticed incidences where the PF do not reason except with pangas.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Shakafuswa: You cannot have a ruling party which reasons with pangas. You cannot have a ruling party which uses force to enforce its ideas. Why can you not dialogue in a civilised manner …

Hon. Opposition Member: They have no brains!

Mr Shakafuswa: … and solve disputes in an amicable way?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: If you cannot run the affairs of your party, how can you run the affairs of the nation?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, development in my area will come. Teshi chishi chaba …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Mr Shakafuswa: Teshi chishi chabamanyinawanu (This nation does not belong to your mothers). This …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

 Hon. Member of Katuba, I am afraid you are proceeding in a wrong manner which is most unacceptable. Do you understand that? It is most unacceptable. I have got the power to curtail your debate. You cannot use that kind of language in here.

Hon. Government Members: Meaning, Sir?

Mr Speaker: If you proceed in this fashion, I will simply stop you and it ends there. This is an honourable House.

Hon. Government Members: Meaning, Sir?

Mr Speaker: Please, continue

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, there is an inherent lack of respect for traditional leaders by the PF Government. As a people, we get our authority from traditional leadership. Traditional leadership is a form of government which has been in existence even before governments came into being. The PF Government has shown us that they have no respect for traditional leadership. For example, just look at the insults regarding Chief Jumbe and the row with Chief Chitimukulu. Are you sure that the Government’s role is to appoint chiefs? Chiefs are born chiefs.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: If one is born from a royal family, do not think that you can change that fact.

Sir, over time, chiefs have kept clans and people together. Chiefs derive their traditional authority from land. Now, the Government wants to bring a Bill which will remove power from chiefs and headmen to allocate land, and give it to the Commissioner of Lands. I think you have lost the point.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: The point is that in our current system, the headmen - for example, I am a headman and I hold the land on behalf of my clan. I am a possessor of the history on behalf of my clan …

The Vice-President interjected.

Mr Shakafuswa: You have no clan system, Dr Scott. We are proud of our heritage.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: We are very proud of being Africans, and we do not want you guys to come and mess with our pride.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Withdraw the word “guys” and “mess-up”.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the words.

Interruptions

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, you were using chiefs as consultants. They have failed in Katuba. They have branded us as violent and tribal. We are not tribal, but we are proud of who we are.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: We are proud of where we come from. We are proud of our heritage, and we will never allow small entities to come and dominate us.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: If you want to force that on us, take it to your areas.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I would like to advise the PF to run the Government on behalf of the people of Zambia. There are decisions which are being made by the Government which are perceived as corrupt.

Mr Speaker, when it comes to mining in the Lower Zambezi, we have to balance our national heritage and our pride. It has our flora and fauna and now you want to kill the animals and tourism there because someone comes and …

Mr Kalaba interjected.

Mr Shakafuswa: No, it is wrong. It is very, very wrong. Let us make decisions which are in the interest of the country. I know the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection is under pressure, but he is a very good Minister who has the nation at heart. So, those of you who are senior to him should help him make good decisions. We have Government institutions like the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) which has got professional bodies which most of you lack and just because you have a position …

Do not take this country down just because you feel you can make wrong decisions for political expedience. Do not take this country down.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! Hammer.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, this is our country. I know the PF is in a hurry to develop this country using donor funds, but that is not the way to go. You are mortgaging our country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Why is it that we cannot develop within our own limits? What is going to happen? We came from a Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) position …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Shakafuswa: We came from a HIPC position and you are taking us back to a HIPC position. What you do not understand is that you are going to mortgage the children of this country, whereby the money that is meant for development will go to repaying loans and the problem is that you are so aged that you feel you will not be there, …

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: … but our children and some of us feel that we need a Zambia which is going to develop from our own resources.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: You have embarked on a programme to appease Zambians which is not sustainable and you are putting in inefficient and inexperienced cadres based, not on professionalism or qualifications but patronage. We cannot allow this. This is not your country. It belongs to all of us. Do not bring your inefficient system into governance so that you run our country down.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Do not bring your family forests in the Government to appease them because you are trying to empower your family forest to the detriment of the rest of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, Mwanawasa, SC. was a great leader and those of you in the PF should be thankful because he saved your President’s life.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: You should be grateful …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Katuba …

Mr Shakafuswa: If Mr Hakainde was sick today, your President would not …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Katuba …

Mr Shakafuswa: Dr Guy Scott phoned me to …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Katuba, we do not debate individuals here. We do not debate individuals. Move away from there.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the President for saying that the hon. Members of Parliament serving in his Government are useless. It is not my statement, but that fact is being exhibited here.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: I think you should up your act and become useful because it is your President who has called you useless Members and I agree with the statement.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I rise to debate the Select Committee Report pertaining to the appointment of various Judges to the Supreme Court and to the High Court of the Republic of Zambia. As I debate this report, I want to inform this House that I chaired a Committee of the NCC …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: I was chairperson of a committee at the NCC that was tasked to look at the Judiciary, the law and the Constitution in this country. I am also Chairperson of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender and Child Affairs of this Parliament. Your Committee has had the privilege of getting submissions from the Judiciary pertaining to the operations of the Judiciary.

Sir, I am also aware of the various Constitution Review Reports that have been tabled in this country and the contents therein pertaining to the operations of the Judiciary.

Mr Speaker, the cry of the Judiciary is that they need a new Constitution to enable them to operate independently.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the Judiciary have been lamenting that their autonomy is being undermined by the Executive because of the lacunas in the current Constitution. They have been lobbying that they need a new Constitution like yesterday.

They are very happy with the provisions of the current Draft Constitution because it enables them to operate independently and offer justice to the people of this country.

Mr Sichinga interjected.

Mr Muntanga: He is a lawyer. You are not a lawyer.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I am speaking on behalf of the Judiciary and these are the recommendations they have made. They have made many reports. As of two weeks ago, they appeared before our Committee and made passionate representations on financial autonomy and matters pertaining to the independence of appointments of judicial officers.

Mr Nkombo: That is how he knows.

Mr Muntanga: That is how he knows.

Mr Mwiimbu: They are pleading and looking forward to this House to rise above board. They are looking forward to the leadership of this country to ensure that a Constitution that will ensure the independence of this House, the Legislature, the Judiciary and the Executive is put in place. That is their major cry. They are not really concerned about who becomes a judge, but they are looking for space where they can operate independently. They are looking for security of tenure to enable the Judiciary to perform its functions and their submissions are that under the current Constitution there is no room for the Judiciary to exercise judicial independence. Those are their submissions and I can state on the Floor of this House without any fear of contradiction that those are the voices of reason from the Judiciary.

I am aware that all of you are potential jailbirds …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … and you should be looking forward to a Judiciary that is going to protect your interests and that will rise above board. That is what we are looking for. I have no doubt in my mind that all of us, if we would searched our souls, will be asking ourselves what our aspirations are. We are talking about the aspirations of the people. For the last twenty years, they  have been crying for a Constitution that guarantees …

Mr Mwaliteta interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hon. Mwaliteta, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Mwiimbu, I will not allow you to have these cross-country engagements. You have a Motion to debate and I will deal with those people.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, as we deal with this matter, let us reflect on the aspirations of our people. Let us look into the future and visualise a future of this country. All of us have been crying. Yesterday, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata raised a very pertinent issue pertaining to the death of one of his members in the police cells. That is a matter that is in the realms of the Judiciary. We want transparency that even if the police fail to take appropriate action, if we have an independent Judiciary, they can invoke certain provisions and ensure that an inquiry is launched. That is what we want. We have situations where those who have executive powers can unleash the police on members of the public or even Parliamentarians. There were battalions of police outside the Chamber. Where you have an independent Judiciary, everyone will have the right to go and question the presence of police outside the precinct of this sanctified House.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, that is what we are all looking for. My last appeal to all of us as we consider this issue is that there are serious constitutional issues that remain unresolved and they will only be resolved once a new constitution is put in place. The people of this country need a new constitution like yesterday.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I stand to support the submission of your Committee in the appointment of two Judges as Supreme Court Judges and others as Puisne Judges.

Mr Speaker, I totally agree that these people need to be appointed because this is a humble profession that makes people to be promoted after thirty years of service to the nation. A person is considered for the position of Supreme Court Judge after working for thirty years. This is a very difficult job. When two people are quarreling, the Judge will make a decision. The winner will be happy and the loser will call the Judge names. The Judge is the one who makes decisions. It is a job I do not envy. These people have worked for thirty years and deserve that promotion.

Mr Speaker, I agree with Hon. Mwiimbu that we need to support these people. We need to give them, through the Constitution, the freedom that is required. I am aware that even my friends in the Government now used to complain about various Judges but now that they are in the Government, they do not see what we see. We used to agree with them that we should give the Judiciary the freedom they need. Immediately they went to the other side (right), they forget. I am yet to understand what bites people when they are in Government. When people are in Government, they stop seeing what they were seeing when they were on this side (left) of the House. I want to appeal to those that understand that we should give the Judiciary the freedom that they require. Let us not manipulate the Judiciary.

Sir, in the Committee Report, they have mentioned a case where one wrote a letter at night recommending action over the elections that were nullified. We do not need to be involved in such things. This case is in court and we cannot talk about it. Let us know that we do not need to do certain things. The politicians are the ones who want to tarnish the image of the Judiciary. No one should think that he will give gratuity to these humble men who are being promoted. They should not think they are indebted to any one of you people in the Government. They have worked for thirty years and deserve this appointment. You should not think that it is because of you that Judge Hamaundu is Supreme Court Judge. He deserves it. We are not picking anybody. In the same vein, I want to tell these humble men to stand firm. Your job is unappreciated when someone loses, but you should stand firm. Make decisions.

Mr Speaker, there are some ladies there who are strong and they make decisions against other people’s feelings. Sometimes, we hear statements that if he does this, we are going to remove him. If we think you have unfairly treated that person by removing him, when we form Government, we will bring him back.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: You are on the way out, in case you do not know that.

Interruptions
 
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, you do not change the Government like that. Whether they know someone is falling, they will not agree he is falling. That is the truth.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: A person will only know that he is drowning when he is actually sinking. You should know these things. We were told that if we lost in Katuba, we would lose in Lusaka. Now, we are telling them that they have lost in Katuba and they have lost in Lusaka. We agree with you. Other Presidents were saying that if a candidate loses …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, come back to the Motion.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, what we are doing is very important. I want to tell the Judges that have been promoted that we all agree that they qualify to be promoted. I want these people to make decisions without expecting gratuity from anybody in the Government. There should be no favours. Those are the people who deserve these appointments. I also want them to make decisions on several cases which we do not commit to courts. Justice Hamaundu …

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: … and Justice Wood qualify to be Supreme Court Judges.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Why do you keep on referring to Judge Hamaundu?

Mr Muntanga: Why are you worried? What worries you?

Mr Speaker, I agree that Judges Hamaundu …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … and Mark Wood should be promoted because they are honourable men.

Interruptions

Mr Mwaliteta: Because he is Tonga.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, just because there is Judge Hamaundu, someone is surprised.

Mr Speaker: Continue, hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: They are sick.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, Honourable Mung’omba, Honourable Chilombo Maka-Phiri, and Honourable Mwila Chitabo, SC., all qualify for these positions. Others are just scared of names and someone is saying that I am supporting Judge Hamaundu because he is Tonga. That is the sickness I am talking about. I am even surprised that the hon. Member saying that is Lenje.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, do not debate that way.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, even though we were not the ones making the recommendations, we agree with the recommendations of your Committee.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Sir, thank you very much for the opportunity to debate the appointment of the nominees to the Supreme Court, namely Judge Evans Hamaundu and Judge Wood and also the Puisne Judges to the High Court.

Mr Speaker, I would like to preface my debate by first of all indicating that the Judiciary is an integral part of the three wings of the Government that requires, at all stages, to operate as independently as possible in the spirit of separation of powers as dictated by the type of governance that, we, the Zambian people, chose for our ourselves.

Sir, these three wings of the Government can also be referred to as the pillars of democracy. I would like to indicate that the manner in which this process has gone, is as it ought to be. Nominations were made. I am sure consultations were done and the President who has the authority requested that the nominated names be brought here for ratification. I am sure, in my mind, that ratifying all these people, to the exception of none of them, is the right thing to do.

Mr Speaker, I have a strong belief in my mind that this process is one way by which the Patriotic Front Government is trying to resolve the impasse that it created two years ago, of bringing forth the name of the sitting Chief Justice whom your Committee rejected to ensure that that office is filled accordingly. For as far as we are concerned, from this side of the divide, the Office of the Chief Justice is vacant. So, I am sure that the inclusion of these honourable men and women into the Supreme Court will provide an ingredient or a shopping basket from which a Chief Justice who is suitable for this country will be found.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, the Government, for the very first time, as far as I remember, has done a semblance of following procedure. For this reason, it needs to be supported in full, with a view like I have said, to ensuring that the vacant seat of the Chief Justice is duly occupied by someone suitable.

Mr Speaker, this matter of the pillars of democracy, remains a constitutional one. We all agree that in the current dispensation, the grand law that we are using, which is the Constitution, still has a colonial hegemony where the strong use is to oppress the weak. However, fortunately for this country, in this particular era, the rulers of this country who will simply be referred to be strong by the mandate that they received from the Zambian people in 2011, are not going to be allowed to stifle the democracy that we chose for ourselves in 1991, to the extent that, through the Judiciary, which is a very integral wing of the Government, we will ensure that they stop being an impediment, stop stifling and being an obstacle to the performance of the Judiciary.

Sir, it is with a heavy heart that I must say this, coming out of the conduct of certain members of the Ruling Party as evidenced by the occurrences of the last two days. I recall that, yesterday, when the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central, Hon. Jack Mwiimbu, made his point of order, he made a passionate appeal for His Honour the Vice- President, an old friend of mine, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … to communicate and get authority from the President for us to sit around the Table in order to deal with this Constitution issue that has created an impasse in this House and which is totally related to the existence of the Judiciary. You, Sir, in your wisdom, responded that both the hon. Members on your right hand side and those on your left, to the exclusion of no one, were your members and that you would protect both sides.

The Vice-President interjected.

Mr Nkombo: Comments came from some greenhorns on your right hand and they said kanshi twalamufumyapo.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, my concern is that you are now moving away from the Motion. One of the rules of debate is relevance. So, let us keep ourselves within the confines of the Motion.

Mr Nkombo: I really treasure your counsel, Mr Speaker.

Sir, my line of thought, at the moment, is that ever since the PF Government came to power, it has been claiming to be a champion of judicial reforms. According to what many hon. Members of this House and I see, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … it has been making changes of placements in the establishment by making counter accusations on the conduct of Judges. I think the rest is history. The whole country knows how what it is calling reform of the Judiciary has actually resulted into shunting away Judges who have served many years, have experience and the potential of excelling even to the level of Chief Justice. I want to say that this appointment of these Judges should not be used as a vehicle to patronise them. That was the area where I was coming to, but, unfortunately, I had to give an example of what happened yesterday. The appointment of these honourable Judges should not be a vehicle, Dr Scott, for patronising the Judiciary. One way of …

The Vice -President interjected.

Mr Speaker: I think the reference to Dr Scott is unnecessary. It is totally uncalled for.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I would like to apologise. He is my former friend; if that pleases you.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Could you, please, proceed. You will deal with the friendship issue afterwards.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, there should be no reason for patronage. How do we achieve this?

Sir, the current Constitution provides these gaps and lacunas for each of these weaker arms of the Government to be patronised. We have seen this happen where that gratification – I do not mean particularly with the PF Government, but it is also inherent in them. The issue of patronage and gratifying people is visible.

Sir, the report is very clear that the Committee laboured to make justification of why they thought that there was no element of gratification on the appointment Judge Wood and Judge Chilombo-Phiri who wrote a letter in the night.

Sir, my emphasis is that if we attend, as soon as possible, to the issue of the Constitution, that is going to allow the three wings of Government to co-exist. However, it is acceptable worldwide that the Executive wing has a slight comparative advantage over the other two wings because it controls the Treasury. The issue of patronising people is not good. Let me give an example and, please, let it be treated as an example in order for me to relate properly the issue at hand of patronage in the Judiciary.

Sir, during the late Dr Mwanawasa’s time, hon. Members crossed the Floor and moved to the other side of the House thereby betraying the interests, aspirations and hopes of those people who appointed them. The same applies to the Judiciary. As long as you are going to put your invisible hand as we have seen in many situations where the hon. Minister of Justice is purported to have written a letter on the PF Government letterhead to render some advice to the Judiciary when he is a sitting Minister of Justice. That, in itself, amounts to patronage whether you like it or not. If you do not understand what I am speaking about, I can only simply apologise to you because it is not my fault that you do not understand.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I think that the point I have driven home is that the fortunate thing about the Zambian people is that we continue to remain united with yourselves in our divergent thinking and we will not allow them to continue to mutilate the law, and patronise citizens. As a matter of fact, it is because of this same Judicial Reform that the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government was thrown out of power. It is because of procrastination on doing the obvious.

Sir, if you do remember, the Head of State then (Dr Kaunda) was compelled to meet the Opposition at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross by the then very strong clergy who said “Let us go and talk.” Now the signs are written on the wall and people have gone to pray for this Government and the reward they have received for them to govern us properly is a thorough thrashing at Bible Gospel Church in Africa (BIGOCA) in Matero. They were beaten.

Sir, as I go towards the end of my discourse, I want to zero in on two of the Judges I know personally.

 Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: One is Hon. Betty Mwaka Majula Mung’omba and, maybe, at this stage, I will pause a bit and offer my sincere condolences on the passing of her husband and I am glad that this House will ratify her appointment without any question.

Sir, I have known Hon. Betty Majula Mung’omba from school when we were together at the University of Zambia. I can attest to the fact that she is a person of very high standing and unquestionable character. As such, I am quite sure that as she goes to serve this country, she shall not be one of those Judges that sometimes succumb to the invisible hand of the Executive and allow herself to be manipulated.

Sir, I also know Hon. William Smith Mweemba at a personal level. He is my mentor, having inducted me as a round tabler when he was President of the Association of Round Tablers in Zambia. I know him. I recall that Hon. Mukata and Hon. Miles Sampa came behind me in that fraternity of intelligent young professionals who are also willing to serve mankind. Hon. William Smith Mweemba falls in that category of high calibre human beings.

Sir, I heard the Chairperson of this Select Committee indicate that he is a very skilled man. Indeed, I also attest to that. His skills do not only go to his desk because they say work without play normally makes John a dull boy. William Smith Mweemba is a very talented dancer in his private life.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: He was the best dancer we had in the fraternity. I am sure even in the Law Association of Zambia, he must have out-danced everyone. And that is a fact. Therefore, we are dealing with a person who is not closed. We are dealing with a person who is open-minded, someone who can bring himself to anyone’s level. I, therefore, salute him. Most of the positives that may be seen in my humble soul, I must state here because I was under the tutorage of William Smith Mweemba.

Sir, with those few remarks, I would, once again, urge the Government not to adulterate or poison the high calibre that I have demonstrated here of these men who are coming to serve in an integral wing of the Government.

Sir, I appreciate the opportunity to debate on these few individuals.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you very much for according me this opportunity to make my reflection on this extremely important Committee’s recommendations.

Mr Speaker, I also stand to strongly support your Committee’s recommendations that the names that have been presented to us be appointed Supreme Court Judges as well as Puisne Judges.

Mr Speaker, it is always a delight when people who have been associated with a particular institution or alumni rise to the highest echelons of their profession. Having been associated with that institution, it is, indeed, a pride to see them rise.

I am sure my colleague, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, Dr Simbyakula, who, to a large extent, contributed to the professional development of the people that we are considering, must be happy to see these recommendations coming to us. Indeed, they are very positive recommendations.

Mr Speaker, on academic grounds, you cannot fault the individuals who have been presented to us. They are products of our highest institution of professional development in the oldest School of Law in this country. It has existed for many decades. They excelled in that school and have been enabled to enter the end to the profession of the learned.

Mr Speaker, that is commendable. On the professional side, most of them are graduates of our Law School, going back to the early eighties. So, they have served their profession for more than thirty years, and that is commendable. The combination of their academic background and their professional standing would enable them to qualify to be rightfully described as having reached the ripeness of judgment in their profession. It is true that in every profession, more especially in the legal profession, society expects those who have reached the higher echelons of the profession to exercise the ripeness of judgment. The ripeness of judgment dictates that you stand above board. It also dictates that in the exercise of your responsibility, you are impartial, and that is the respect that you gain as a professional.

Mr Speaker, this nation, Zambia, is at a very dangerous and critical point in the sense that we have been subjected to politics of personal persecution. Politics of personal persecution is evident in our political parties and across political parties. For example, if you look at the intra-party existence, there is so much politics of personal persecution. Whether it is individuals or leaders within respective political parties, especially our Ruling Party, there is so much persecution among the leaders of our political parties. When you look at intra-party politics, we have a lot of politics of personal persecution that is going on. All these experiences that we have had of opposition political leaders being thrown into police cells overnight, is part of the politics of personal persecution, and that being the case, we need a vanguard …

Mr Sichone: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichone: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order. This is the first of its kind since I came into this House. Is the hon. Member debating in order to perform verbal gymnastics by debating issues that are not part of the Motion that is on the Floor of this House and to bring in issues such as the persecution that is taking place in the party he belongs to?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Well, I was also waiting to figure out the connection.

Hon. Government Member: Nexus.

Mr Speaker: Yes, indeed, a nexus. I was also waiting to figure out the connection between the Motion and these issues of persecution. I have stated before, that we should try to confine ourselves to the Motion. I know that subjects can be broad and background can be provided, but, let us be focused. Let us zero in on the issue before us. That way, we will make progress quickly and dispose of the matter where we appear to have a consensus, anyway.

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the connection is very evident and clear. The politics of personal persecution we are in, and which have characterised our country since the 1960s, require a vanguard of professionals who will stand for the nation and exercise impartiality in judgment. This is where the Judiciary comes in. This is where the appointment of highly competent and experienced men and women like the ones who are being presented to us come in.

We should commend and support them because this is what the nation needs. This nation needs very strong professionals in the Judiciary and other sectors in order to save it from mediocrity and selfishness that, sometimes, crops up in the leadership of this country. This is the reason I support the appointment and ratification of the individuals who have been presented to us. I strongly feel that they will exercise their professional leadership in saving this country from the dangers of politics of personal persecution.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 The Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice on this debate on behalf of the Executive. The Judiciary is the mirror of our society. We must, therefore, ensure that the Judiciary remains truly independent for all of us to be free. This Government is committed to an independent and autonomous Judiciary. To this end, the PF Government will endeavor, within the available resource envelope, to improve the conditions of service for judicial officers at subordinate court, High Court and Supreme Court levels.

Mr Speaker, the lack of infrastructure has also contributed to delays in the delivery of justice in this country. In order to ameliorate this impediment, the Government has embarked on an ambitious programme of infrastructure development by constructing more courtrooms across the country.

Mr Speaker, the nominees that the House is considering in the Motion on the Floor are men and women of integrity. They are highly competent and, as a Government, we have no doubt at all that all of them are capable of discharging their judicial functions without fear or favour. As the hon. Member for Kalomo Central has rightly observed, there is no question of patronage here whatsoever, as the nominees, by their many long years of experience in the legal field, have earned these appointments.

Mr Speaker, on a personal note, I feel so proud and with a great sense of joy that five of the nominees are my former students.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Simbyakula: Judge Hamaundu and Judge Wood are my former students. I knew them when they were teenagers at UNZA. I can attest to their high calibre of work.

The Vice-President: Were you not a teenager at the same time?

Dr Simbyakula: No, I was not a teenager then.

Laughter

Dr Simbyakula: Their ascendance to these high judicial offices, therefore, comes as no surprise. Mr Speaker also taught them.

Laughter

Dr Simbyakula: Sorry, Sir.

We, as the Government, have no doubt, as I said that these men will excel and make a significant contribution to the legal development of Zambia.

With those few words, Mr Speaker, I want to thank all the members for supporting this Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Lungu: Mr Speaker, I wish to take this chance to thank all the Members that have contributed on this very important Motion. The fact that most of them agree to ratify these judges means that we are all united that these are the correct people that will serve in their various positions. It is not always good to differ but, I think, today, we have scored a point because most of us have agreed that these are men and women of high standing. We have spoken volumes about them.

Mr Speaker, I also want to add that, coming through the university background, I have also known them and they have been very outstanding. I also want to thank the team that helped me prepare the report and the Clerk’s Office for the good guidance they gave. I specifically want to thank the seconder of the Motion for having seconded it very ably.

With these very few words, Mr Speaker, I ask the House to ratify the names that have been put forward before them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

______________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_____________

The House adjourned at 1230 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday 4th March 2014.

___________________

QUESTIONS FOR WRITTEN ANSWER

CITIZENS ECONOMIC EMPOWERMENT FUND

W20. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a) how much money was disbursed from the Citizens Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEC) in 2012 and 2013, in the North-Western Province;

(b) how many applications the CEEC received from the North-Western Province, district by district;

(c) of the total applications received, how many were from Kabompo-West Parliamentary Constituency; and

(d) how many applications from the constituency were approved.

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker the disbursements from the CEEC to the North-Western Province were as follows:

(i) in 2012, the CEEC disbursed K2,050,000.00 (two million fifty thousand kwacha only);  and

(ii) in 2013, the Commission disbursed K1,617,700.00 (one thousand six hundred seventeen and seven hundred kwacha only);

(b) the Value Chain Cluster Programme only targeted three districts per province each year.  This was as a result of limited resources and the need to be pragmatic in approach.  The identified districts from which applications were received were Ikeleng’i, Kabompo and Solwezi.  A total of eight hundred and eighty-one (881) applications were received from the three districts;

(c) a total of one hundred and sixty five (165) applications were received from Kabompo West; and

(d) four (4) projects were approved in Kabompo District under the project finance.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.