DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 11th July, 2014

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ONE DAY WORKSHOP

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that the Ministry of Commence, Trade and Industry, in conjunction with the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), will hold a one day workshop on the Plan and Implementation of the Product Value Chains and Physical Industrial Clusters on Tuesday, 15th July, 2014, from 0830 hours to 1230 hours in the amphitheatre at Parliament Buildings. 

The workshop is being organised to update hon. Members of Parliament on the plans that have been developed for their industrial districts relating to the Government’s strategy for industrialisation and job creation. A facilitation allowance will be availed to hon. Members. I, therefore, urge hon. Members to attend this very important workshop. 

I thank you. 

Hon. Members: Hear. Hear!
_______

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an idea of the business we intend to consider next week. 

On Tuesday, 15th July, 2014, the Business of the House will begin with Questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then debate a Motion to adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee.

Sir, on Wednesday, 16th July, 2014, the Business of the House will begin with Questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will deal with Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. The House will then consider a Motion to adopt the main Report of the Public Accounts Committee. 

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 17th July, 2014, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then deal with the Committee Stage of the Zambia Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport Bill, National Assembly Bill, No. 1, 2014. 

Sir, on Friday,18th July, 2014, the Business of the House will begin with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time, if there will be any questions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

The Vice-President:  Sir, this will be followed by Questions to hon. Ministers, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with the Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. I should not have said “If there will any” in the case of His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time because I am sure there will be questions. 

Laughter 

The Vice-President: The House will then deal with any business that may be outstanding. 

On this day, all other things being equal, I intend to move a Motion to suspend the relevant Standing Orders to enable the House to complete all the business on the Order Paper and, thereafter, to adjourn sine die and try and establish what the maize situation is in Kalomo. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Laughter

________

HIS HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, before we proceed, I want to guide that in order to allow as many questions as possible, I will not allow points of order during His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. 

Hon. Member for Kalomo Central, you may ask your question. 

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, we swear in this House to defend and protect the Constitution as well as the President of the Republic of Zambia. 

Sir, at this time when the President is resting at State House, can His Honour the Vice President facilitate him being visited by the Whips of this House so that they can avail us information about him. 

The Vice-President (Dr Scott): Mr Speaker, I will convey the request as the questioner wishes. Clearly, he realises that I do not have clearance to do that at this time, but I will communicate his idea.  

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, usually when by-elections are around the corner, this Patriotic Front (PF) Government is quick to say that it should be voted into power so as to bring development to a particular area. Can you confirm, Honourable Vice-President, to this House and the Zambian people that your Government will only take development to areas where there are PF Members of Parliament. 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, there are various developmental projects taking place in areas where the Patriotic Front (PF) did not win the majority of the votes. 

Sir, 40 km of the Bottom Road has already been tarred. The roads in Monze District are currently being worked on. I think that the hon. Member has failed to evolve with the times. Since he is a Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) member, I think he is talking about other times and places. We are now in 2014. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, recently, when His Honour the Vice-President was asked why the hon. Minister of Justice was made to act in the absence of His Excellency the President, he stated that Hon. Kabimba, SC., was the most qualified person in the party to hold the Office of President. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Lubinda: In so saying, Sir, His Honour the Vice-President declared himself disqualified by the 1996 Constitution Amendment. 

In addition to this, he named two citizens …

Hon. Opposition Members: You!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Kabwata, can you pause for a moment. 

I can ask you to leave this session if you cannot behave yourself. Let the hon. Member conclude his question. Why can you not allow him to finish? I can see you. 

Hon. Member for Kabwata, you may continue. 

Mr Lubinda: Sir, I was saying His Honour the Vice-President mentioned two citizens who, obviously, do not qualify to act as Republican President because they are not Cabinet Ministers. I would like to find out what motivated His Honour the Vice-President to mention Mr Mulenga Sata and me as being disqualified to hold the Office of President when, in fact, the two of us do not even qualify to be appointed because we are not Cabinet Ministers. In addition to that, would His Honour the Vice-President, who is a high profile man who speaks straight to this House and the country at large, state whether, now, the Office of the Vice-President has the authority to discuss people’s parentage and to declare which people qualify to hold public offices in Zambia.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, if he has the power, may he indicate to this House when he will produce to the House and the country at large a list of the citizens who are disqualified from holding public offices and especially that of President.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! 

That kind of response is acceptable and not the other interjections which are unparliamentary.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am surprised with that question. Perhaps, the hon. Member for Kabwata was not yet here when the 1996 Constitution Amendment was brought to this House.

Sir, I was explaining to a journalist who was not quite sure what the situation was that the Parentage Clause was added to the Constitution by the party in power then to bar Dr Kenneth Kaunda from standing in the 1996 Presidential Elections. Further, a provision was added which barred traditional leaders from participating in active politics so as to block the then Vice-President of the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Chief Inyambo Yeta from contesting the elections. I explained that this casting of nets has caught many people, including those who are sitting in this House and outside it. In order for one to qualify to contest the Presidency, the Parentage Clause requires that both your parents must be or have been Zambians at the time Zambian got Independence. I gave the journalist examples of two people who came to mind. I was not trying to campaign, create hostility or pass any judgment. The Electoral Commission of Zambian is the body which determines who qualifies to stand for the Presidency. I was merely explaining…

Mr Lubinda interjected.

Mr Speaker: Order, the hon. Member for Kabwata.

The Vice-President: … what the amendment was all about. If I had gone further, I would have stated that the amendment needed to have been taken out of our Constitution a long time ago. I was not talking as an authority on anybody’s parentage.

 I thank you, Sir. 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, can His Honour the Vice-President indicate to the House when we expect the response to the question raised by Hon. Muntanga.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I have not even given it a thought for two seconds because I have been busy answering other questions. I will update Hon. Muntanga and the House on the matter by next week.

 I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, yesterday, we heard how K6.5 million is to be spent on rehabilitating the Presidential Lodge in Kitwe. During our visits as the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), we learnt that the construction of some secondary schools costs that much. Can His Honour the Vice-President explain to me the morality of spending such a colossal sum of money on rehabilitating the Presidential Lodge when, in Luena, there is no electricity and no roads at all. Some projects that were approved in the 2013 Budget such as the works on the Milwe/Nangula Road and taking of electricity to Nangula have not started. 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I will bring an answer for the good lady next week. Obviously, details regarding comparative expenditure in Luena and Kitwe cannot just be sucked out of me like from computer.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, upon getting into office, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government…

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order on the right!

Dr Kalila: … found two major road construction projects in the Western Province which are the Mongu/Kalabo Road and the Mongu/Senanga/Sesheke Road. I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President what other two major road construction projects they have since embarked on in the Western Province after coming into power.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we are working on the Kalabo/Sikongo which is an extension of the Mongu/Kalabo Road. The best thing for me to do is to bring a researched answer to the questioner next week. I also want to remind all hon. Members that next week will be the last His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time for this session. Therefore, any such questions should be forwarded to me in advance.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwamba (Kasama Central): Mr Speaker, once upon a time, the Northern Province was the biggest province in the country. The people of not only Kasama, but also the entire Northern Province would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President what criteria the Government used to allocate two universities to a province which was cut from the province and nothing to it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, one of the universities being referred to was constructed by the United for National Independence Party (UNIP) Government. I do not know the criteria which were used to allocate Muchinga Province another university.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I can easily find out the criteria which were used. Should I be wondering around …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

It will be more honourable for His Honour the Vice-president to come back to the House with an appropriate answer.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, allow me to do some research and come back to the House with an appropriate answer.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, when it was in the Opposition, the Patriotic Front (PF) was vehemently opposed …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us have some order so that we hear the question

Mr Lufuma: … to the Non-governmental Organisations Act that was enacted during the administration of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). The PF Government seems to be very reluctant to repeal this Bill as promised. When will the Act be repealed?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I can recall that we said that we would review the contents of the Act. We are reviewing the contents of the Act with the representatives of the non-governmental organisations (NGOs). We never said we wanted anarchy in the NGO sector. We only said that the Bill which was brought by the MMD Government to this House was too draconian and we wished to make it more accommodating.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.   

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I would like His Honour the Vice-President to be very clear on this contradiction. When the hon. Ministers visit Ikeleng’i in the North-Western Province, they indicate to the people in the area that the construction of the Mwinilunga/Jimbe Road will start soon. When they are here in Parliament, they keep ‘hiding’ behind the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. Could His Honour the Vice-President tell us when works on this road in Ikeleng’i will start so that hon. Ministers do not mislead the people there.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think so many of the localised questions are coming up in terms of roads. I will either answer that question next week or I will ask the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to come with a statement which will include all those queries next week. Is that possible (turning to Mr Mukanga)?

Mr Mukanga: Sure, Sir.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is what I propose.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President informed this House that a statement pertaining to the controversial visit of His Excellency the President to Israel and his health status would be issued by State House itself. I would like to find out from him, considering that he is representing State House on the Floor of this House, when that statement will be issued to the nation and to this House so that the controversies are cleared.

The Vice-President: Sir, it will be issued if and when necessary.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, it has become abundantly clear that, very soon, most of our colleagues in the Executive will be bowing out of public life. At this stage, would they consider to stop procrastinating and facilitate for a people-driven Constitution so that those Zambians who currently do not qualify for the Office of the Presidency can also be allowed to participate in the elections. Them bowing out of public life is certainly inevitable.

Laughter 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think it is a bad idea to preface a question with the allegation that we are about to bow out of public life. We have about two years and four months before we can even consider bowing out of public life. The Constitution-making process, as I have answered many times before, is ongoing. The process can only be taken forward after the Draft Constitution is tabled before the Cabinet. I have explained numerous times on the Floor of this House …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

I cannot even hear the Vice-President from where I am sitting.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

   Order means order!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker …

Mr Speaker: Just a moment, His Honour the Vice-President. 

Let us have some order. I can barely hear the Vice-President. I need to follow these proceedings.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, firstly, I wish to state that we are not bowing out of public life for a long time. Secondly, the Constitution-making process is ongoing, as I have explained many times on the Floor of this House.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, I take cognisance of the fact that His Honour the Vice-President has promised to bring answers as regards to road construction, especially regarding the Kaputa/Mporokoso Road and Kasaba via Chungu/Luwingu Road. However, since 1966, the Northern Province has had a number of secondary schools that have not been refurbished. Mporokoso and Luwingu secondary schools have dilapidated infrastructure. What is the Government doing to ensure that the old school infrastructure in the Northern Province is maintained and repaired regularly?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I suggest that when the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication comes to talk about roads, he also provides information regarding the maintenance programmes for schools, clinics and other public buildings.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, may His Honour the Vice-President explain why there have been continuous problems in the agricultural sector concerning the purchasing of high value crops such as cotton. From 2011, the prices for high value crops have been very bad. The price of tobacco this year has also been very bad. Farmers in Masaiti are complaining. 

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I do not know what the tobacco price is in Masaiti, but down here it is not that bad. I mean, the reality is that crops like cotton and tobacco are export crops which are priced in United States (US) Dollars. These are international prices which move up and down. The price of cotton has moved up and down a lot in the last few years. The price of tobacco was actually extremely low in 2011 at the end of the MMD’s reign and not at the beginning of the PF’s rule. Apart from doing a little to stabilise the situation by, perhaps, having a more conducive exchange rate for exports, there is really nothing we can do. This is farming we are talking about. Welcome to agriculture, I say.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Sir, it is with deep humility and extreme concern that I must ask this question. The manner in which the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, under the leadership of His Honour the Vice-President, Dr Guy Scott, and his hon. Ministers, have clumsily and recklessly handled the circumstances in which our Head of State is in dictates the way I will ask my question.

Sir, do they not feel any inch of embarrassment within themselves in the manner that they have been hiding the truth concerning our Head of State because we love that man? He is our President …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Let us have order. Let him complete his question.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, in case they think that he is their President alone, I want to remind them that he is our President as well.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, whatever circumstances he is going through will affect them just as much as they will affect us. Do they not feel any sense of embarrassment and shame in the manner that they have been giving conflicting statements, especially during his visit to Tel Aviv, where they indicated that he was going to meet the out-going Premier of Israel, Mr Shimon Perez? Can His Honour the Vice-President confirm if the two leaders actually met because …

Mr Speaker: I think I have allowed you a lot of space for questions. You have put across more than one question already.

Mr Nkombo: It is one question, Sir. Are they not embarrassed because we have seen, in the online media, cartoons of our Head of State …

Dr Katema: Bufi ubo. 

Mr Nkombo: This is serious, Dr Katema. We have seen cartoons of our Head of State purportedly meeting Mr Shimon Perez, which have left a very bad taste in our mouths as Zambia. Are they not embarrassed, Sir?

The Vice-President: The answer is no, Mr Speaker.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, it has been reported in one of the daily tabloids that prices of poultry meat are likely to go up as a result of the recent increase in the prices of day old chicks and cost of production. May I know from His Honour the Vice-President whether this is likely to be true and, if not, what is the Government doing to ensure that people have access to this source of protein which is so common in this country?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that is an interesting question considering that the kwacha has weakened and that some imported components go into the production of day old chicks. However, I also happen to have recently received a report from the Consumer Protection and Competition Commission (CPCC) which pointed out that the price of day old chicks in Zambia is much higher than in other countries in the region. This tends to suggest that there may be elements of collusion going on amongst the producers. We intend to look into that matter because matters concerning the basic protein foodstuffs for our people are much more important than some of the issues that are raised here.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I have just come from Rwanda where I found that that country is very clean.

Interruptions

Mrs Mazoka: Sir, I came back to Zambia…

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister.

Mr Mucheleka: Name him!

Mrs Mazoka: … and was received with all sorts of filth. Has the Government any plans of banning the use of plastic bags which have become a sore to our eyes and are degrading the environment? Does the Government have any such plans.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Ema women aya.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think that is a very good question. Personally, I have been in favour of the suggestion which has been made by the hon. Member for many years even though it is not a majority view. The other observation you can make is that certain cities such as Johannesburg which are not a million miles away from us are very clean. Such cities have been made clean by the recycling of plastic bags, newspapers, tins and glass products. This trend is slowly starting to take root in Lusaka. We are strongly encouraging the Lusaka City Council (LCC) together with the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) and the private sector to work towards some recycling projects so that we can avoid any impediments to the health and well-being of our people.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushanga (Bwacha): Mr Speaker, the people of Kabwe District and to be specific, Bwacha Constituency, especially young people, have been suffering so much due to high unemployment levels in Kabwe. When is the Government going to re-open the Zambia-China Mulungushi Textiles?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, my understanding is that the officials from the Ministry of Defence which is a shareholder on behalf of Zambia and the Members of Parliament themselves are to be commended for visiting Tanzania and identifying a potential buyer. It is a Tanzanian company which is already in the textiles industry which has been growing in size. It is interested in leasing the factory or investing in the factory in Kabwe. The Chinese partner has no objection to that. We expect things to start moving this year. I suppose …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left.

The Vice-President: … the first things to go will be the chickens, pigs and the cattle that have been residing in the factory premises. Maybe, they will be expunged for a big feast and then normal business can resume.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I would like His Honour the Vice-President to shed light on what has disturbed me this morning and this is the fact that Kalumbila Mine in Solwezi has decided to exhume bodies from about two hundred graves …

Hon. Members: Ha!

Ms Namugala: … in Solwezi. The mine has indicated that it is going to compensate the families of the dead and buried with K2 million. If that is the case, is it morally correct for our dead to be disturbed to pave way for a mining project so that a big mining corporation can become richer/

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, again, I presume this matter has been a subject of negotiations …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President: … between Chief Musebe and First Quantum Minerals under the chairmanship of the Government. Since, I was not given any advance warning regarding this question, I really cannot provide a detailed analysis of what will happen. At one time or the other, we all get to walk on the graves of our ancestors at some point.

Mr Mukanga: Even here.

The Vice-President: Sir, this place where we are is called Manda Hill for a reason. I think there is nothing wrong with that. What is necessary is that the people must be properly respected and compensated.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the President of this country is a President for every Zambian. Can His Honour the Vice-President give us some comfort that, since the President came back, he has had a chance to meet him at his office and, if so, when did you meet him?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think we are going in the direction of repetition. If and when it is necessary, a statement concerning this matter will be issued.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: His Honour the Vice-President, the question was whether you have had an opportunity to have a chat.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

The Vice-President: Yes, Sir.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Ah!

Laughter

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, farmers’ associations, important people in this country such as me and the United Party for National Development (UPND) President Hakainde Hichilema have asked this Government to revise the maize price from K70 per bag to a reasonable figure. When will this Government do that?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, that suggestion is under active consideration. At the moment, we are letting the market to operate freely. The Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has funds to start buying maize. As you know, every year there are certain developments which affect the buying of maize. The moisture levels, especially in the north, of the country take time to come down. It is not safe to buy maize which has moisture levels which are above 12 per cent because it can get rotten if it is stored. As the buying of the maize progresses, we shall keep adjusting the price as the need arises. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, what is the need for the Price Stabilisation Fund, if the Government cannot intervene as far as the low prices of tobacco are concerned?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, we can intervene, but have not yet done so.

I thank you, Sir.

__________ 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

WATER DRILLING RIGS

583. Mr Livune (Katombola) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:
 
(a)    how many water drilling rigs had been procured by the Government in 2014;

(b)    how the water drilling rigs had been distributed countrywide;

(c)    what the total cost of procuring the water drilling rigs was;

(d)    what plans the Government had to procure more water drilling rigs for use in all the provinces; and

(e)    what the guidelines on the use of the rigs in the constituencies were.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development, procured six drilling rigs in 2014.

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the water drilling rigs have been distributed to the Western, North-Western, Luapula, Northern, Eastern and Muchinga provinces.

Mr Speaker, the cost of each rig was K2, 978, 415.83 bringing the total for all the six rigs to approximately K17, 870,495.00.

Mr Speaker, the ministry is at procurement level for the remaining four provinces. These provinces are Lusaka, Southern, Central and Copperbelt. The World Bank has already given us the money.

Mr Speaker, in a bid to partner with the hon. Members of Parliament, the ministry has written to them to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for the actual works because it has no funds for that purpose. The ministry does not want the rigs to stay idle. The Members of Parliament who are willing to use part of their CDF will be served accordingly. The areas to be provided with boreholes will also be identified by the respective Members of Parliament in affected constituencies.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, having procured …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, this Patriotic Front (PF) Government is very difficult to help. I have tried to help it …

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: … to the point where I am now giving up. 

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, they are still talking.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, it is unfortunate that His Honour the Vice-President is not in the House. When answering the question by Hon. Lufuma, His Honour the Vice-President said that the PF Government is in the process of repealing or amending the Non-governmental Organisations Act because it is draconian. I was the architect of that Act. I was the main player in its enactment of the Act when I was Minister of Community Development and Social Services.

Mr Speaker, is His Honour the Vice-President in order to say that the Act is draconian without mentioning which part or object of it is draconian? 

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is simple. If you want to engage His Honour the Vice-President on that specific score, file in a question and he is going to answer it. Beyond him answering the question, you at liberty to engage him further as to whether those provisions alleged to be draconian are so. That is my ruling.

The hon. Member for Katombola may continue.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker …

Mr Sikazwe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah, Sikazwe!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to rise on a point of order. I take sport to be a very serious undertaking for all of us in the House. Some of us took a lot of time to engage ourselves in …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members on the left, please, let us have some order. Please, practise some self-respect. Self-respect is cardinal to you being called honourable. It is integral. We cannot continue in this fashion.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Speaker, I was saying that when you announced that there was going to be some games between the Zambian and Zimbabwean Parliaments, some of us committed ourselves to training for them and have been going to the ground almost everyday.
    
Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Speaker, is the captain or the coach in order not to release the list of the people who are going to Livingstone and keep some of us wondering whether we are on it?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Speaker, as far as I know, even when the Zambia National Soccer Team is going out, the list of the players who are part of the trip is availed to the nation.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: Sir, is the captain in order to keep the list a secret? I seek your serious ruling.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: He is in order to the extent that he will release the list after the first break.

Laughter

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I hope there will not be another point of order. The hon. Minister has informed us that the money to procure water drilling rigs for the remaining four provinces is already available and that the process is at procurement stage. Having already procured six, I want to think that he knows the time it takes from the procurement to distribution stage. When will the remaining water drilling rigs be procured and distributed?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I cannot tell when exactly the process will be completed except that the process has already begun.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the procurement of the rigs has been well received. Now, has there been any communication between the Ministries of Mines, Energy and Water Development, and Local Government and Housing which will enable the efficient disbursement of the money that will be put into the programme such that there will be no regrets of having supported a futile exercise? I am asking this question because on several occasions, we have put money in water reticulation programmes through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing that have never worked out. How is it possible that this programme will work out with the same Ministry of Local Government and Housing in Zambia?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, let us run out of pessimism here. The Ministry of Local Government and Housing has its own programme and so does the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development. So, we are saying that we are going to supply the rigs and have already started with six provinces. We will distribute the remaining ones once they are procured and have arrived in the country. Do not be negative. Both the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, and the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development are here to deliver and satisfy the people’s needs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the rigs have been procured by the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development on one hand and the Ministry of Local Government and Housing has the money budgeted for drilling the boreholes on the other. Would it not be prudent for the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development to liaise with the Ministry of Local Government and Housing so that the money which has been budgeted for can be used to drill the boreholes as opposed to asking the hon. Members of Parliament to use their Constituency Development Fund (CDF)?  Why can we not use the money that is provided now that we have the equipment through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing?

The Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, like I said earlier, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing has its own programme. It has got areas which it serves, and that is the peri-urban areas. We go deep in the rural areas. We all know the areas we are supposed to handle. There is no criss-crossing involved. Just like us, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing has its own specific areas of interest. In our next budgeting season, we will ensure that we have money for drilling the boreholes so that your Constituency Development Fund (CDF) will not be used for that purpose.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, since deep in the rural areas where there are people who need the boreholes is where they get their votes from, would it not be prudent for them to get money from the Ministry of Finance so that they can better serve such areas instead of asking hon. Members of Parliament to sacrifice the little money that they have under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF)?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I think that is exactly what I have said. We budgeted for the drilling of boreholes deep in the rural areas and that allocation of funds in this financial year has almost been depleted.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let there be order on the right.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, all I have been doing is to urge the hon. Members to take advantage of the presence of the rigs in their areas by using part of the CDF to drill the boreholes. We will continue the drilling of boreholes with the rigs next year when we are provided with more funds. 

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I think the rigs were procured without prudent planning as it has occurred to me that they are, in fact, for rent. Why did the Government procure the rigs when it did not put aside money for fuel, paying the drivers and the buying of casings and hand pumps?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, we thoroughly planned for the execution of the project.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development has the responsibility to provide water to the whole country. The Central Government has been investing in water reticulation programmes in urban areas. Why is it that when it comes to rural areas, the Government says that we have to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which we are already utilising to build other amenities for water reticulation programmes? Why do we have to slice off money from our CDF to provide for that service, which the Government has provided for the urban areas using funds from the Central Government? What morality is there in doing that?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, the Government has good intentions. I have put that on record. In my earlier response, I said that, in the interim, before the year ends, the hon. Members who have the CDF should make use of the rigs. Then, next year, we will revert to the normal situation and use money from the Central Government to drill the boreholes. That is what I said. If they do not have the money right now to drill boreholes from the CDF, they should wait for next year when we will have funds for that purpose.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I believe that the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development has information regarding the water situation in the country. Why did the ministry decide not to firstly distribute the rigs in areas such as the Southern and Central provinces where there is scarcity of water? Why did it distribute the rigs to areas where water is accessible just after digging three metres into the ground? 

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, we are going to take the rigs to all the provinces. The four rigs which are coming will cater for the remaining provinces. As for the selection of provinces to take the rigs to, of course, a lot of factors related to the management of underground water were taken into consideration. There are also very critical areas in the country which need rigs urgently just like Kalomo. Rigs will be taken to Kalomo, maybe, within the next six or eight months.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, hon. Minister, it is quite clear that the Government did not properly prepare for the project because, without the use of the Constituency Development Fund, (CDF), the rigs will be marooned. Water is life. Can the hon. Minister, consider engaging his colleague, the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, to suspend the renovations of that guest house in Kitwe and take the K6.5 million budgeted for the works to borehole drilling project so that our people can have access to water.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I think that his Honour the Vice-President indicated that he will bring that issue to the House.

I thank you, Sir.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that they are drilling boreholes deep in rural areas. Keembe is found deep in the rural areas.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, where is the borehole being drilled in Keembe?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, looking at the distance from Kabwe to where it is, I do not think that Keembe is deep in the rural areas. We only go to areas which can be classified as being deep in the rural areas.

Hon. Members: Where?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, places such as Gwembe, Shang’ombo and Kayambi are deep in the rural areas.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, again, I would like to seize this opportunity just to reiterate what I have said before. In order to avert many questions, hon. Ministers need to supply adequate information regarding the definition and distribution of the programmes under their ministries. Please, supply this information. It is in the interest of everybody.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

It is in the interest of everybody, including Mr Speaker …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … because it means that we shall spend less time discussing certain issues. I can see that I have had to stop many hon. Members from posing questions. In the interest of progress, I have to move on to the next question.

GREAT NORTH ROAD

584. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the Great North Road from Kafue Roundabout to Chirundu and Siavonga would be rehabilitated;

(b)    which company had been awarded the contract to resurface the road from Kafue to Chirundu; and

(c)    when the works would be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mwimba H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Great North Road from Kafue Roundabout to Chirundu and Siavonga has started. The road has been divided into four links.

Sir, there are two contractors on the Kafue to Chirundu Road. This is China Henan Company and KSC International Limited. The works on the entire stretch will be completed by 31st August, 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, taking advantage of this particular question, I would like to find out whether this Government is considering urgent remedial measures for the Kafue/Mazabuka Road. It has now become a death trap. What measures is the Government taking to ensure that the lives of the travelling public are protected on that particular stretch?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I wish that question was on the Order Paper. Since it is not, we cannot provide an answer for it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, will this new road which is being constructed have designated roadblock spots? Police officers mount roadblocks anywhere and stop trucks carrying heavy equipment which, thereby, damage this road due to pressure.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama:  Mr Speaker, that is a good observation which we shall take into account.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) workers have not received their salaries for the last three to four months?

Hon. Members: That is for the next Question!

Mr Speaker: Order!

I think we are not singing from the same hymn book. Maybe, it is a reminder that we should go to the next question.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that he can provide information on the Kafue/Mazabuka Road. Since the road from Chirundu and Kafue passes through Mazabuka, may I know what is going to be done about the dangerous stretch which was referred to earlier?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I stated clearly that we can provide that information later. For now, we are looking at the stretches from Kafue, Chirundu and Siavonga.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo rose.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Sit down hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Hon. Members, to avoid this kind of situation, please, let us file in questions.

Mr Muntanga: It is an urgent question!

Mr Speaker: Yes, file in the urgent questions.  

We will process them so that we avoid this. Of course, if you look at what is being discussed, you will notice that it is not necessarily in line with the question which has been asked by Hon. Muntanga. If you want to engage him, specifically on that road, file in a question. Probably, he needs time to assemble the information in a comprehensive fashion so that he can give you a comprehensive response.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I value your counsel about filing in questions of an urgent nature. During the reign of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), we used to get periodic work plans regarding infrastructure development. Since the development agenda is not ad hoc, I want to find out whether or not the hon. Minister can help this House by giving us, at least, the annual work plan for road infrastructure such as the Mazabuka/Kafue Road so that we avoid bringing up urgent questions. Can the hon. Minister consider giving us a two or three-year work plan so that we know when they will work on the Kafue/Mazabuka Road.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Sir, since, the hon. Members want that information, it will be provided to them. We have been providing information even much more than our friends used to.

Hon. MMD Members: Aah! Question!

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, we always give the public updates through the newspapers. I do not know if the hon. Members read newspapers. However, since they have requested for the information, we will bring it here so that they can have it. We have no problem with that since we have nothing to hide. 

I thank you, Sir.

TAZARA

585. Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) would be recapitalised;

(b)    when  TAZARA retirees would be paid their terminal benefits; and

(c)    what measures the Government had taken to ensure that TAZARA employees were paid their terminal benefits; 

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the Zambian Government has been recaptalising the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) because it has the obligation to do so. 

Sir, money has already been committed in the sum of K216 million. Part of this money is towards the payment of retirees’ benefits. The company is obliged to request for funding as and when it sees it fit.

Mr Speaker, the Government has already released K5 million as working capital for TAZARA. Through this money, the company should take care of salaries. The company must strike a balance between maintenance of infrastructure and operations so that it continues in business whilst improving infrastructure for sustainability to be guaranteed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Speaker, with the coming in of new management at the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA), we thought that the financial status of the company would improve. Is the hon. Minister aware that even with the new management in place, the workers at TAZARA are still going without pay for three or four months?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, as Government, we are aware that the employees of TAZARA have not been receiving their monthly salaries as they are supposed to. That is why the Government has already released K5 million to ensure that such matters are attended to.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, there is evidence that Government cannot run business. The Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) has had these problems and the two governments have been pumping in money without any viability coming through. Is the Government not considering partnering with the private sector to make this railway line viable?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the Government has been looking at how best it can run TAZARA effectively because it is a business which is supposed to be making profits. It is for this reason that the Government has instructed the board to ensure that it comes up with ideas to make TAZARA viable.

Sir, the Council of Ministers sat this month and will sit again next month to look at plans that will enable TAZARA to operate effectively as a business. TAZARA hopes to engage in smart partnerships with the private sector so that it becomes more viable. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, Tanzania-Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA) workers at Chozi have been driven into destitution. This is because they are now owed four months arrears and their salaries, which have lost value due to the fall of the kwacha, have not been increased for some time. What does the Government intend to do for them because even if they are paid this money it will all go to the payment of the debts and still leave them in destitution? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the Council of Ministers will sit next month to see how it can turn the fortunes of TAZARA around. It is for this reason that this working Government has plans to invest US$40 million in TAZARA. After we meet next month, more money will be released so that all the salary arrears are cleared. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Chivuna. 

Hon. Member: Chivuna? 

Mr Speaker: Chavuma, sorry. I think I am being spellbound somewhere here. 

Laughter 

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the Government has pumped money into the Tanzania-Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA) in order to recapitalise it. As a shareholder of the company which is making losses, when does the Government intend to stop feeding this baby which is not growing? 

Mr Speaker: This will be the last question. The hon. Minister has been at it for a while. 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, when a baby is born, parents look forward to the time when the baby would start crawling, walking and, finally, running. TAZARA seems to have been crawling for the last couple of years. We are doing all we can to ensure that we revive its operations. We are meeting next month to see how best we can improve the operations of TAZARA. The Government is not happy to be pumping money into an institution that is not giving it good results. 

I thank you, Sir. 

_________{mospagebreak}

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON HEALTH, COMMUNITY DEVELOPMENT AND SOCIAL SERVICES

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services for the Third Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 9th July, 2014. 

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion Seconded?

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion. 

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, your Committee considered two topical issues namely: 

(a)    the health insurance system in Zambia; and 

(b)    the availability and uptake of family planning services in Zambia. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee further undertook a study visit to the Republic of Ghana in order to acquaint itself with Ghana’s health insurance system and review the Action-Taken Report on your previous Committee’s report for the Second Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. I believe that hon. Members have taken time to read your Committee’s report, hence, I will only highlight the salient issues.

Sir, before I discuss the findings of your Committee on the topical issues it considered, I wish to draw the attention of the Ministry of Health to an issue on Page 20, Paragraph 8.9 of your Committee’s report. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee and the public have been under the impression that male circumcision has benefits that are also linked to the prevention of cervical cancer. However, your Committee has been informed, in the Action-Taken Report, that there is no direct relationship between male circumcision and the prevention of cervical cancer. 

Sir, in order that the public does not continue to have incorrect information on the matter, your Committee urges the Ministry of Health to issue a comprehensive statement on the benefits of male circumcision and its relationship with cervical cancer prevention. 

Mr Speaker, allow me to comment on your Committee’s study of health insurance.

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order on the right!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, there is evidence to show that access to health care improves when individuals are covered by some form of health insurance. Regrettably, it is not indisputable that in Zambia, the provision of health insurance has largely been left in the hands of the private sector. Further, your Committee is concerned that the legal environment governing the provision of health insurance in Zambia is inadequate. This is evidenced by the fact that there is no specific legislation governing the provision of health insurance in Zambia. Furthermore, there are no specific provisions on health insurance in the main law of insurance which is the Insurance Act No. 27 of 1997. 

Sir, Zambia can learn from Ghana which enacted a specific law to guide and regulate the provision of health insurance. That law has improved co-ordination and compliance by stakeholders in the health insurance sector in Ghana. In light of the above, your Committee recommends that the Executive should expeditiously come up with the necessary legislation that will specifically provide for, guide and regulate the provision of health insurance in Zambia. This legislation can enhance compliance in terms of adherence to minimum standards of health care as health insurance requires proper regulation to protect the intended interests of the policy holders. 

Mr Speaker, while your Committee acknowledges the existence of private health insurance in Zambia, it bemoans the absence of a public health insurance scheme. It is a fact that private health insurance tends to be expensive and, therefore, unaffordable to a large section of the Zambian population. Your Committee notes, with admiration, the success story of Ghana’s health insurance scheme. The scheme which was introduced in 2005 has increased the percentage of eligible Ghanaians who have health insurance cover from about 6 per cent to 38 per cent during the period of its existence. 

Sir, your Committee, being fully aware that the Executive has plans of establishing a national social health insurance scheme, calls on the Executive to expedite the process. Your Committee anticipates that the scheme will result in a larger percentage of the Zambian population having health insurance cover thereby reducing the burden of out-of-pocket expenses … 

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

There are far too many conversations going on. I think that is discouraging for the mover of the Motion.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, your Committee anticipates that the scheme will result in a larger percentage of the Zambian population having health insurance cover thereby reducing the burden of out-of-pocket expenses when accessing health care services. The National Social Health Insurance Scheme (NSHIS) can, therefore, ultimately contribute to the achievement of universal health coverage. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee notes that an effective and efficient health insurance system depends, by and large, on the utilisation of information and communication technology (ICT). However, your Committee observes the low level of utilisation of the ICT in the health insurance sector which stakeholders attributed to the high cost of such systems. Inadequate investment in the ICT systems has among other things, contributed to the increased fraud in the sector.  In order to overcome some of the challenges brought about by the lack of the ICT systems, your Committee recommends that the Executive considers giving tax relief to insurers and health care providers who invest in appropriate the ICT systems.

Sir, your Committee is further aware that Ghana is currently rolling out a biometric card system after successfully piloting it to overcome some of the challenges such as card management and the abuse involved in the payment of claims. Your Committee, therefore, urges the Executive to draw lessons from that country and consider introducing a biometric card system once the proposed National Social Health Insurance Scheme becomes a reality. 

Mr Speaker, the initiative by the Executive to introduce a health insurance scheme is progressive. However, your Committee is concerned that the members’ contributions may not sustain the scheme.

Mr Speaker, your Committee recommends that the Executive seriously considers identifying reliable and sustainable sources of financing the proposed insurance scheme before it becomes a reality. 

Sir, your Committee observes that undertaking extensive consultations with stakeholders regarding the establishment of a national health insurance scheme provides an opportunity to solicit for stakeholders’ support. Your Committee is aware that some consultations have already taken place regarding the establishment of a health insurance scheme in Zambia. However, in the interest of ensuring inclusiveness and considering that there are indications that consultations are ongoing, your Committee advises the Executive to undertake further consultations on the establishment of the proposed scheme. This will ensure consensus building and stakeholders’ support during its implementation.

Mr Speaker, further, your Committee, is of the view that accreditation of health care providers could guarantee the provision of quality health care to those who need it. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Zambian Government strives to engage only accredited providers to offer health care services to members of the scheme once it becomes operational.

Mr Speaker, regarding the availability and uptake of family planning services in Zambia, your Committee notes that women in rural areas face various challenges to access such services. The challenges include long distances to health facilities and being subjected to short-term family planning methods such as oral contraceptives when there are long-term contraception methods available. Short-term family planning methods entail frequent trips to health facilities. In this regard, your Committee urges the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, and the Ministry of Health to improve the provision of family planning services in rural areas by ensuring that such services are available and accessible.

Mr Speaker, your Committee is alive to the fact that the health sector is inadequately funded. This has not spared the implementation and provision of family planning programmes and services, respectively. It is for this reason that your Committee commends the Executive for developing the Costed Integrated Family Planning Scale-up Plan (CIFPSP) 2013-2020, to address the gaps in the provision of family planning services and for committing to double the budgetary allocation to family planning commodities at the London Summit on Family Planning (LSFP) in 2012.

Sir, in commending the executive, your Committee also urges it to adequately fund the implementation of the plan and fulfill the commitment to double the budgetary allocation to family planning commodities. Your Committee observes that the uptake of family planning services among Zambians is low despite the reported high awareness regarding family planning. This is an indication that there is an information gap on the benefits of family planning. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Executive conducts more public education and sensitisation on the benefits of family planning.

Mr Speaker, your Committee is cognisant of the fact that drug stores are not allowed to distribute family planning commodities. Your Committee is of the view that many potential clients patronise these drug stores. It, therefore, urges the Executive to reconsider the policy position on the issue of drug stores vis-à-vis the distribution of family planning commodities. In the interest of taking family planning services beyond the health facility, the distribution of family planning commodities by drug stores should be piloted.

Mr Speaker, your Committee also notes that family planning services are not integrated with other services that are popular such as the voluntary counseling and testing (VCT) and under-five clinics. Your Committee is of the view that disintegrated services have the potential of being both a barrier to accessing and a factor in reducing the uptake of family planning services. 

Sir, therefore, in order to improve the uptake of family planning services, your Committee recommends that the Executive identifies appropriate programmes and services which should be integrated with family planning services. 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to thank you, on behalf of your Committee for the valuable guidance you provided during the year. Allow me also to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the advice and services rendered during the year. Your Committee is also indebted to all the witnesses who appeared before it for their co-operation in providing the necessary memoranda and oral briefs. 

Mr Speaker, my appreciation also goes to members of your Committee for their co-operation and unwavering dedication to their work which made my role a Chairperson pleasant.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Musonda: Now, Mr Speaker.

   Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to second the Motion that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services. I also wish to thank the mover of the Motion for ably highlighting the salient issues that are contained in your Committee’s report. I, will, therefore, only point out a few issues as a seconder to the Motion. 

Sir, as the mover of the Motion has already stated, your Committee considered the health insurance system in Zambia, among other things. Your Committee observes that the level of understanding of health insurance among the citizens is low. While it is appreciated that the cost of private health insurance is a prohibitive factor, the lack of adequate information on the health insurance and its benefits explains in part, the low uptake of any form of health insurance.

Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Executive conducts education and sensitisation campaigns about health insurance and its benefits in order to improve the uptake of health insurance products. Furthermore, individuals’ roles and responsibilities once they took out health insurance policies should be explained. This can stem out some of the fraudulent activities happening in the sector.

Mr Mpundu: Hear, hear!

Mr Musonda: Sir, some of the compliance issues affecting the health insurance sector in Zambia include the failure by some private health insurers to register with the regulatory authority. In addition, there are some medical schemes whose operations have some aspects of health insurance, but are not regulated at all. This is an indication that the regulation of health insurance providers is inadequate. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Executive establishes an agency specifically mandated to regulate health insurance schemes in Zambia. This will boost compliance with the provisions of the proposed health insurance legislation once enacted.

Mr Speaker, your Committee bemoans the shortage of skilled human resource in actuarial sciences and underwriting. This has resulted in health insurance providers lacking accurate actuarial data to enable them determine appropriate premiums and corresponding benefits. Your Committee urges the Executive to encourage and promote the provision of study programmes in actuarial sciences and underwriting in public and private universities and colleges. This measure will ensure that the country has enough qualified actuaries.

Sir, your Committee further notes the continued shortage of trained health personnel in Zambia especially in rural areas. Your Committee is concerned that this might negatively affect the provision of quality health care services once the proposed health insurance scheme becomes a reality. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the Executive devises strategies to ensure that trained health workers are available in all the facilities that will be accredited as health care providers under the National Social Health Insurance Scheme.

Allow me now, Mr Speaker, to highlight a few issues pertaining to the availability and uptake of family planning services in Zambia. Your Committee welcomes the use of community based distributers (CBDS) to distribute family planning commodities in the absence of adequate qualified health personnel. However, your Committee considers the policy unsustainable if there are no monetary incentives to attract and motivate volunteers. In this regard, your Committee recommends that the Executive considers giving monetary incentives to volunteers in addition to non-monetary incentives. 

Sir, your Committee is dismayed at the reported unprofessional conduct of some health workers towards the youth and unmarried women who seek family planning services. The youth and unmarried women are sometimes stigmatised and given misleading information on family planning. To stop this unprofessional conduct, your Committee recommends that the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health and the Ministry of Health should train and retrain health workers regarding the handling of the affected clients. The training should emphasise the clients’ right to information on family planning.

In conclusion, I wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, on behalf of the members of your Committee for allowing us to serve on the Committee. I further wish to thank the members of your Committee for giving me an opportunity to second this important Motion.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Back Benchers: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Sir, I thank you very much for the opportunity to debate this important Motion. Let me also thank the Chairperson of your Committee, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa for ably moving this Motion, as well as the hon. Member of Parliament for Kapiri Mposhi for seconding it. 

Mr Speaker, there are a lot of pertinent issues that have come out of this report, namely the fact that Zambia does not have any stand alone policy or, indeed, law that is explicit regarding health insurance. 

Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the House to the importance of insurance beginning with the assets that we own. We have laws and policies …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Nkombo: … that govern insurance such as house owner’s policy as well as fire and motor vehicle insurance. Unfortunately, we have now been reminded that as a country and under the Executive, led by the Patriotic Front (PF) and previously by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), we have not had a deliberate policy that addresses the issue of health insurance especially in the public sector. 

Mr Speaker, many people pay colossal amounts of money to comprehensively insure pieces of metal which are disposable or vehicles against risks such as tempest, floods or fire. Therefore, I feel it should be deliberate that we should also make it compulsory to have health insurance. Just like the case is now with third party insurance for motor vehicles, we should also ensure that, at least, as a beginning point, anybody who is in the tax net is compelled to subscribe to a health insurance scheme.

Sir, the report also indicates that this particular service provision has been, by and large, left to the private sector. It is also true that due to the nature of this particular subject, there has been the mushrooming of private hospitals, some of them to save and preserve lives, but others also to cash in. 

Sir, the report has been very clear on the ramifications of lacking health insurance. The mover and seconder of the Motion elucidated that the lack of health insurance impede budgets at household level. What I picked from this report is that when one is unwell, which varies from one extreme to another, either with the Influenza or a terminal illness, one has a price to pay if he or she goes in an ad hoc way in the hospital.

Sir, if, for example, I suffer fractured bones from a motor vehicle accident and I go to the Italian Orthopaedic Hospital, I can be assured, depending on the seriousness of my challenge, that in the absence of a health insurance policy, I will pay through the nose. This, effectively, deprives me of my daily necessities of providing a balanced diet for my children, paying their tuition fees, and payment of utility bills because I have suffered this unforeseen setback. This would also apply to illness. I can be diagnosed today, I touch wood and hope not, with a terminal illness such as cancer which requires continuous therapy. Therapy is not cheap today.  

Sir, the report has also brought out the fact that lack of insurance has exacerbated the deterioration of service delivery in public health institutions. If the Executive could assist public health institutions to attach an agency that can run a health insurance policy, inevitably, the service delivery in those institutions will improve. I can assure you that whoever is a subscriber or affiliate to their health insurance scheme will get first class service in that institution. 

Mr Speaker, the way insurance works is that if a pool of 100 people subscribe to an insurance policy, the chances are that less that 15 per cent will suffer a setback. The subscriptions of the other 85 percent assist with the challenges that those few have suffered. It is very rare to have all of the subscribers suffering setbacks at the same time. This is how it simply works. So where is the challenge? I believe that the challenge is lack of role models in leadership.  

Sir, if I fall ill today, it would be public knowledge. I can go to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) and choose, depending on the gravity of my illness, to go either through the normal window or the special one. The privilege I have today of getting fast track treatment at UTH, I may not have tomorrow.  So what about the common Zambian? What about the Zambian who has no privilege to be a Member of Parliament? 

As I speak, the institution I belong to has not sold me a health insurance policy. Therefore I am only privileged for a very short period of time of five years. It is no wonder, Sir, that the number of people who die after leaving this Legislative Assembly is very high. They cannot afford …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I thank you again for the opportunity. 

Sir, earlier, during my discourse I was trying to emphasise the importance of health insurance. I gave examples of other types of insurance that we perceive to be more important than our health. Going forward, I wish to indicate that the health of any nation, by and large, depends on certain factors inter alia leadership, hygiene, nutrition, economic well-being of citizens and the poverty levels. In a country like ours where the levels of poverty vacillate between 68 and 70 per cent, where the Civil Service or working class ranges between 500,000 and 600,000 and the informal sector is not caught in the tax net, it is important to consider making health insurance mandatory in the beginning for the few who are in the income tax net so that they can see the need to subscribe to a health insurance of one kind or another. 

Mr Speaker, we are struggling to have a quorum in the House because some of our colleagues have gone to play soccer in Livingstone. Soccer can be a dangerous game. This is why international players such as Neymar and David Beckham have been insured for colossal sums of money in case of injury. I pray that our colleagues who have gone to Livingstone have been bought a certain level of insurance in case they come back with maimed legs. 

Laughter 

Mr Livune: Kampyongo!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, health like death, knows no colour or economic status. It affects both the very rich and powerful as well as the very poor. In short, in this country, we have been living by the grace of God. It is not enough to live by the grace of God. We need to do certain practical things that will improve our health status as a nation. We should not let the access to health care depend on how bulky an individual’s pocket is. 

Sir, health insurance can be provided to our citizens. Let me give an example of how this can be done. If we have 500,000 people in the Civil Service and each one of them pays K10.00 as health insurance, it will add up to a certain figure. I, therefore, wish to state that health insurance is much more important than the Airtel, MTN or Zamtel talk time that we spend money on. There is need for the country’s leadership to commission an expenditure analysis on how much money people spend on just saying hello, texting and WhatsApp compared to how much they would spend if they subscribed to a health policy. The people must be helped to understand that life should never be taken for granted and simply left to the grace of God.

Sir, yes, of course, good and bad lives are lived at the mercy of the Almighty. However, there are certain practical things that we can do in order to circumvent dying. Actually, you can postpone your death by subscribing to a health insurance policy. If you want to insure your vehicle, its condition has to be assessed. When an individual wants to buy a health insurance policy, he or she is subjected to a full medical check-up. How many of us in this House see the need to go for a periodic medical check-up? I think that is a starting point because we have so many living ‘corpses’. Many people walk around, and yet, they ‘died’ a long time ago …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo:…so much so that if they went for a medical test, they would be told that they should not be doing certain things and that at certain times, they should do certain things. Diet re-arrangements can be prescribed if you go for a medical check-up.

Mr Speaker, there are people here who do not know their blood sugar or pressure levels because they do not care. As for me, the issue of health insurance is something that must be taken up in a revolutionally manner by all of us. That is simply what I mean when I say that we can actually postpone our deaths. Ultimately, we will die and God knows how and when each one of us is going to die.

Sir, many people within and outside this House do not even know their blood type. These are the issues which I am talking about. When you buy medical insurance, you will be given a card which can be used in case of an emergency. In case of an emergency, the medical personnel do not need to go rushing around to inquire about your blood type. The card will even make it easy for them to contact your next of kin. Some of you do not even have a next of kin.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, that way it will be easier for the medical personnel and they save your life.

Mr Speaker, I think that I have said enough. It does not matter who you are in society. We all  can fall sick at one time or the other. Since attending to health matters can be very expensive, it is important to have a fall-back position. If all of us enjoyed medical insurance cover, I am sure there would be no stress.

Sir, I know that people of a high profile in our country are flown to South Africa or India for medical treatment whenever they are critically ill. Even those who can simply afford to meet their own medical bills are flown out of the country at the Government’s expense.  

Sir, when we have a thriving health insurance system in place, there will be money for those who are running the insurance schemes to make sure that expertise and machinery is brought to this country so that if I fall ill, it is just take a 10-minute drive to the UTH for me to get the very best medical service as opposed to me running from plane to plane or terminal to terminal in a bid to access quality treatment.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health has a board to determine who can be flown out of the country for specialist treatment.  Sometimes, when private citizens are ill, they will go to the UTH to see Dr Kasonka to push for their evacuation. Now, we must just look at establishing our health insurance system so that there is no evacuation of anyone. The poor and the rich alike must go to the UTH. We must give the institution all the support which it requires.

Sir, the report says that part of the ramifications of lack of health insurance are the deteriorating services in public health institutions. How can we have confidence in our public institution with such a state of affairs? I am sure the hon. Minister of Health and his colleague in the Ministry of Community Development Mother and Child Health, have digested what I have said. In Tonga, we say “atwambo tunji, musongo ulabweza komwe”. I am sure they have picked one or two things from what I have said which must be expediently put into practice in line with the recommendations which the Committee has provided in the report.

Sir, let not this report start gathering dust. It should be given to the technocrats so that they can see how they can actualise the recommendations which have been made by the hardworking Committee based on their findings from their tours and interactions with witnesses.

Mr Speaker, I have one more thing to say to the Committee. After interacting with the witnesses, I wish the Committee had listed the setbacks encountered by those who do not have medical insurance when accessing health services. The Committee needed to show that when you have health insurance, the benefits are XYZ and also explained the downside of not having it.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Opposition:   Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): I would like to thank you for giving me an opportunity to support the report that is before this House.

Sir, the report is well written and its findings were well researched. It has brought out salient issues which need to be addressed for the benefit of all the Zambians.

Sir, health insurance is very important. As we all know, insurance is a method used to transfer your risks to another body. It is a method used to reduce the cost that you may bear when you are involved in one or two things such as accidents.      

Mr Speaker, insurance has got its own pros and cons, depending on how it is managed. Most of the time, insurance requires the payment of premiums, which may be high depending on the risks involved. My concern is for those who are in rural areas such as the people that I represent in Lupososhi Constituency, especially those that are in Lukolongo, Nsapaila and Sub-chief Chibaye’s area. If this type of insurance is introduced, these people may have quite a lot of difficulties to raise the required amounts of money to pay for premiums so that they are covered.

Mr Speaker, your Committee’s report has highlighted the Government’s social responsibility to ensure that this particular group of people are captured and given the opportunity to access quality health care. However, the distances that have been mentioned in your Committee’s report have a telling story. Since 1964, we have been crying that the people in rural areas have had a raw deal. The question which begs an answer is: How, then, are we going to finance these insurance schemes when we have failed to bridge the distances in rural areas for people to access health services nearest to them? We have not been able to provide quality health services to the people in rural areas for a long time.

Mr Speaker, those of us who are privileged to live in urban areas are lucky because there are private medical practitioners who make it possible for us to access a certain level of health services. As we look at the possibility of implementing this scheme, we must be mindful that there is a certain category of people in the rural areas who are not going to be able to afford it.

Mr Speaker, the other aspect in the report that got my attention is the issue of family planning. Family planning has been talked about for a long time in the Republic of Zambia. However, the environment we live in has made it very difficult for this particular aspect of health to be implemented. Your Committee’s report has talked about cultural and religious values which have been an impediment in the implementation of family planning programmes. 

Mr Speaker, indeed, there are different methods that are used to practise family planning. Some of them are called traditional methods. My people in Lupososhi Constituency will tell you that they have nothing to do with the modern style of family planning. They would rather use traditional ways. Therefore, modern family planning methods are very difficult to deal with in rural areas. That is not all. The Church, on the other hand, has been in the forefront of discouraging the usage of certain methods. The use of condoms is one method of family planning. This, however, has not been well received by certain circles in the religious sector. Again, it calls for a lot of concerted efforts if this programme has to succeed.

Mr Speaker, another aspect that has been highlighted in your Committee’s report is the issue of stigma. How will the community and society look at a lady who starts using contraceptives on the first day of her marriage and goes for one to two years without a child? These are the thorny issues for some of us who are representing rural areas because cultural values in these places are so entrenched to the extent that when you talk about such issues, you are seen as if you are a witch.

Mr Speaker, so, stigma is an issue that we need to look at as we try to come up with ways of reaching out to the rural areas. We need to convince our people that we mean well and that the programme of family planning is workable and is for their good.

Mr Speaker, the other thing related to that is the timing with regard to the use of the family planning methods. We have school girls and boys who are sexually active. To introduce family planning related issues to them calls for a lot of courage and determination. If this programme is not well introduced and planned, it may lead to moral decay amongst the pupils and others who are teenagers. So, I would suggest that as we embark on this well-meaning programme, we need to look at the timing and where this particular programme is being implemented.

Mr Speaker, we also need to define the age at which one can use contraceptives in this country. Those in the medical field should be able to determine who should access the contraceptives. It is good to say we want to bring about family planning and so on and so forth, but if we do not define the age, we will end up with a population that will have no children to take to Grade 1. So, my appeal to both those that are in leadership in various spheres of life, especially the Church, and health practitioners, is to sit down and see how best we can define the age for family planning so that it is clear who should not be allowed to use contraception. 

Mr Speaker, I was looking at the stakeholders that were contacted by your Committee. I looked through the list of ministries and did not see the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. Your Committee could have made an effort to bring on board the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs because it is a key player in the issue of ensuring that the family planning programme succeeds. This is the ministry that is interacting with the various chiefs in this country, who are the custodians of certain traditions. 

Mr Speaker, if the chiefs buy into the programme, it will become very easy for it to succeed.  Chiefs will bring on board the various headmen and other stakeholders within their chiefdoms to help in sensitisation in order to drive the programme forward. The involvement of chiefs will help to break certain traditional barriers that have impeded the implementation of this beautiful programme. Without the chiefs’ involvement, it will be very difficult to implement this programme.

Mr Speaker, in winding up my debate, I want to talk about the effects of some of these contraceptives and implants. There is a belief out there amongst our people, especially those that I represent in Lupososhi Constituency, that these contraceptives have effects to the extent that even when somebody stops taking them, she cannot conceive. The other effect is that they bring about conflicts amongst individuals because they begin accusing old people of having bewitched them when they start failing to have children. These things are real in rural areas.

Mr Speaker, this is why I am saying that the sensitisation campaigns require concerted efforts which will draw people from all walks of life. The use of an implant is even worse because you are more or less introducing a foreign substance in your body. The people in rural areas are very skeptical about the use of such items because the benefits have not been properly defined.

Mr Speaker, the population is growing everyday and, therefore, it calls for all of us, as leaders, regardless of what level of leadership we are at, to work together and see how best we can control our population. On one hand, in one of the great books it is written, “Go and multiply and fill the world”. However, on the other hand there are people who are saying no, wait, do not do that. These are contradicting statements. The Church will say one thing today, then the ordinary members of the community will also say something different. Some members of the community feel that having many children can be a source of wealth. Family planning is a big issue that we need to deal with as a nation and the reality on the ground is what I have stated. It is very clear that the people out there are not well educated in as far as family planning programmes are concerned.

Mr Speaker, I have spoken for the people of Chibaye and those in Tungati. We need  a clear sensitisation plan that will cut across the various parts of the country. There is need for us not only to control our population, but also to be able to feed it qualitatively and provide quality health care.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I want to start by thanking your Committee for considering very serious topics during this session. I will stick to one issue which has been raised here. This is the issue that has cajoled me to stand up and debate this important report. I will talk about family planning.

Sir, family planning is actually a preventative health initiative. You can actually call it preventative medicine. In the long-term if we invest properly in family planning, we will actually reduce the health care burden that we have in our country. This report has revealed two critical issues. There are poor family planning services in this country to the extent that our people are not easily them. To those who can access the family planning services, the uptake is low. These are two critical issues that must be resolved in our country.

Mr Speaker, if we are to properly invest in family planning, we must target the young people. The family planning services and, basically, in broad terms, the sexual and reproductive health services must be availed to the young people. Zambia has one of the highest fertility rates not because people want to have more children, but because the family planning services are not adequate and the uptake is not at the required levels for those who have access to them.

Sir, the average fertility rate in this country is about six children per woman. That is one of the highest in the world. That is why, today, you see, Zambia has one of the highest infant and maternal mortality rates in the world. We have such a young population because the child spacing which is practised is not the recommended one. 

Mr Speaker, with such a scenario, I am not surprised that we have high infant mortality. I am also not surprised that we have a high maternal mortality rate in this country. The solution in the long run is to investing in family planning initiatives.

Mr Speaker, as a country, I think we have lost it. In our schools, when I was young, there were a lot of visual images explaining the importance of family planning. Some of the visual images used to have a pendulum in the centre and then food on one side and people on the other. The visual aid was trying to show people that there was need to balance the weight on both sides of the pendulum. This country is not balanced at household level.

Mr Speaker, when invited to a wedding, I tell the couple that they are marrying to stay together and not necessarily to have children. We marry for companionship. Children are an extra blessing.

Hon. Members: Hmmm!

Mr Chipungu: Are you Zambian?

Mr Hamududu: Oh, yes.

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: Sir, if you read the genesis of marriage, you will discover that it is supposed to be mainly about companionship.

Hon. Members: Ah!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, a woman should not be a factory for producing children. We need to give these women space. I will explain how that can be done. When the Almighty God said go and multiply, he did not say go and do it alone. You are supposed to give chance to other people as well..

Mr Speaker, investing in young people is very important. Last week or so, we had a meeting organised by the association which I chair here at Parliament which is the Zambia All Party Parliamentary Group on Population and Development. I am a president of all parties in that respect.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Sir, together with the International Pregnancy Advisory Services (IPAS), we had a meeting at Radisson Blu Hotel where we invited young people. I am happy that some members here like Hon. Mushanga, Hon. Livune, Hon. Nkombo and many others were there to witness what I am talking about. We were amazed when we heard what the young people had to say about the issues which we are talking about here. We realised that in this country there is a generation gap. We are trying to whip our children to live in our generation and yet there generation has moved into a completely different phase. At the meeting I am talking about, the youths said that in our health facilities, there are no friendly corners for young people to access family planning services. When young people go to the hospital and they ask questions to do with their reproductive health, they are accused of being promiscuous. We should realise that we are not dealing with youths in the 20th century. The country must move on.

Sir, today the youths use a lot of information communication technologies (ICTs). You cannot tell young people not to talk about certain things when they are reading and hearing about them everyday. We must come to terms with the state of affairs today and craft policies that recognise times. What we never talked about sometime back when we were youths is being talked about today. When I completed my university studies here at the Great East Road Campus, I was a virgin.

Hon. Members: Hmmm!

Mr Hamududu: Yes! 

Dr Kaingu: You are lying.

Mr Hamududu: Sir, I am not. 

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: Sir, it is not possible for that to happen today because there are too many pressures.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Sir, of course, I got married later on in my life and I think my wife loves me.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Sir, we must realise that now we are dealing with a different generation. Young people today are facing a lot of pressure. That time, my mother and father could not talk about these issues but, today, I have to talk about them with my daughters because times have changed. For example, there was no internet that time. Today, you just open your internet and a picture comes up. 

Hon. Members: A picture of what?

Mr Hamududu: Sir, pictures of naked men or women are readily available. Let us begin to discuss these issues because our children are being challenged and must be guided.

 Sir, last week, there was a report on the Floor of the House which talked about the high rate of teenage pregnancies. The lack of education on sexuality for young people means that they are not being guided properly. The Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, during a meeting with some donors, made assurances that it would introduce comprehensive sexuality education in our schools. That must be done. Let the young people understand their bodies, especially the girls so that they are not abused.

Hon. Member: Hmm.

Mr Hamududu: Yes, they are being abused by elderly men. The girls get pregnant and the men deny responsibility and run away.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, young people must be empowered with the tools to be in control of their own bodies and family planning is one such tool. Education on sexuality must go down to the schools. I have met people who oppose what we are talking about and yet their children are the victims. That is hypocrisy. This generational gap must be closed and services provided.

Sir, young people want to have their youth-friendly corners in all our health facilities where they can get comprehensive information. Information empowers them to make decisions. Do you think that the 15,000 school-going children falling pregnant every year want it that way? No. It is because they were not armed with information. They must know, for example, that if you sleep with a boy without a condoms you will be pregnant. They, obviously, did not have that information. So, the boy runs away and the girl carries the pregnancy. There are reports that some of the men who do these things are teachers. Therefore, we need to empower the young people to be in control.

Mr Speaker, the other issue is that of general education. By the way, yesterday was the World Population Day and the theme was “Investing in Young People.”  Those who have followed my debate can rank my real interest in the issues which I am talking about. I have always stated that the most powerful tool to uplift our people from any problem is education. We have to invest in young people. That is the theme that the world as a whole and our country, in particular, has celebrated. Investing in young people means that all of them must be given skills. Let them go through school.

Mr Speaker, in fact, the millennium development goals (MDGs) that are just coming to a conclusion underestimated the MDG on education by advocating for universal primary education. I think that in the post-2015 MDGs, the world must agree to talk about universal post secondary education so that all the young people are kept in school until they have sufficient knowledge to manage their lives properly. 

Sir, as a result of a very uneducated population in our rural areas, even if the Government provided family planning services, their uptake would be very low. So, education, as people have said, is the best contraceptive. Let the girl child and the boy child be kept in school until they are empowered to make the right choices. Today, we have school drop-outs at as early as Grade 5 level. Do you think that if you provided family planning services in your clinics they can take them? They cannot because they do not have the aptitude to understand them. 

Mr Speaker, I want to urge the Government to just go through this report because it is very clear on the way forward. One of the recommendations is on culture. Culture is not static. A long time ago, our grandparents used to walk with just a skin here and a skin there and it was normal. Today, we must wear clothes.

Mr Musukwa: Where?

Mr Hamududu: Just here and there.

Hon. Members: Where?

Mr Hamududu: Sir, at the front as well as at the back.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Sir, as leaders, we must always attune ourselves to the changes that are going on and embrace them. If we do not embrace change, we will continue to face problems of child marriages, high teenage pregnancies and a population that is getting destroyed. Can we quickly attune ourselves to the modern age.  

Mr Speaker, finally, I want to talk about the issue of health insurance. Health insurance was not viable sometime back because it was too costly to collect the premiums. The cost of collecting premiums was higher than the premiums themselves. This is why it took many countries a long time to implement health insurance initiatives. Premiums are too small amounts to collect around this vast country but today, with ICTs, there are now innovations that you can use at less cost. For example, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) has worked with the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) to collect television licence fees at minimum cost. Today, with the mobile phone companies, it is possible to innovate solutions to collect premiums from even a person in the village. So, health insurance is possible today with the use of the ICTs. 

Mr Speaker, countries like Rwanda, where my mother, Hon. Mazoka was, have actually reached 99 per cent health insurance cover for the country. We can also do it because there are many ICT innovations available to us today. The issues raised by your Committee are within our reach and I hope that we will begin to think innovatively and also move from the 20th Century to the current one so that we can serve our young people and provide services that can protect the future generations. I am very happy that, somewhere, children are watching and are very happy to see an hon. Member of Parliament advocating for friendly family planning corners in all our health facilities.

Sir, we can have many clinics, but if they do not have youth-friendly facilities, they will not solve our sexual reproductive health problems. So let us invest in prevention so that in the next fifteen to twenty years, we will have a healthy population that will also benefit from the growing economy because they are able to as they have smaller family sizes, savings and can partake in the medical services that this country has to offer.

With these few words, Sir, I support the report of your Committee.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I stand to support the report by your Committee. Two main issues have come out of your report. First is the need for insurance cover with regard to health care and second is the need for family planning.

Sir, there is need to have insurance cover for medical treatment. This issue of medical insurance was a campaign message by President Obama in the United States of America (USA). He had to talk to the American people about the need for insurance for health. At the moment, it has become necessary that we talk about it. We need insurance cover because it is very expensive to obtain any treatment in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, in Zambia, we have hospitals that have very good levels of treatment. The services at our hospitals are very expensive to access. In this country, we have hospitals where you can have any type of operation after you have been scanned at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH).

Mr Speaker, as regards the dialysis machine, the minimum I remember paying about six years back when I was assisting my late sister was K500 per session. I am told that it is now around K1,000 for any person to undergo a dialysis session. Even the UTH demands such amounts of money. So, these people who need dialysis machines cannot get treatment because of the expenses. So, how do we assist?

Sir, Your Committee has come up with this proposal for insurance cover so that the common people who have such problems can be assisted. It is a very important point. I commend your Committee and its Chairperson who is a doctor for that recommendation. I wish that he could have brought this issue here when he was the hon. Minister of Health because, even at that time, we had the same problems. People were dying not as a result of the lack of treatment facilities, but because they did have money to access treatment. Even those who have to go outside the country for treatment have to know someone in the Government for that to happen. They have to ask the hon. Minister of Health to bring the hospital board together to look at their case, and recommend that it is important that they receive treatment outside the country. I have family members that have gone out of the country for treatment. One of the family members had to accompany the sick person outside the country to go and access specialised treatment. I felt very sorry that they had to go to India. I talked to one of the doctors from India, and he said that he could have done the operation here at one of our local hospitals provided it had certain equipment. He said that it would be very expensive to bring the same equipment to Zambia. The way forward from this situation is to handle these cases within the country in order to save money. 

Mr Speaker, let me talk about family planning. We have failed to provide health services, and we believe that our population is increasing and that we are too many. Therefore, we have decided to control the population through family planning. At Independence, we were between 4 to 5 million. Now, we are about 13 million. Kenya had a population of about 10 million and now, it is at 42 million. I know some countries that are even paying people to produce children.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, in Cameroon, they are paying people to marry more than one wife, and they pay them money for producing extra children. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we have a problem here because we are not able to provide the needed medical services and, therefore, we want to stop people from producing children. We are now talking about providing family planning training to children. It seems as though, first of all, we should allow them to have sex, then we can tell them how to plan their families. I do not agree with this. This reminds me of a former hon. Minister of Education, the late Mulikita. We asked him, as student leaders, to grant maternity leave to our fellow students who got pregnant. We wanted him to give them maternity leave because we thought that it was a right. However his answer was: “I agree to give you maternity leave if you first give yourselves sex leave.” 

Hon. Members: Oh!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we looked at him and wondered what he was talking about. He meant that we were to stop playing around with sex and then we would automatically not need maternity leave. 

Mr Speaker, I know that these days, children have more knowledge than back in the day. They see a lot of things on the Internet, which a number of us here do not know about. They already know …

Hon. Member: Speak for yourself.

Laughter 

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Sir, I am speaking for the Secretary-General of the Patriotic Front (PF) as well …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, I am a serious evangelist.

Laughter

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, a few minutes ago, Hon. Hamududu was talking about condoms. Now the igwe, Hon. Muntanga, who is on the Floor is talking about sex education. Considering that there are children in our midst, are we in order to continue talking about condoms and sex? Are we not confusing them more by talking about condoms and sex?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

We are in order because the children will know that we have differing opinions. You may continue, hon. Member for Kalomo Central.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we must try to protect the same children. They already know these things.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, on the Internet, there are things that I do not expect to see. Some sexual action has been put there. I think that the hon. Minister for Home Affairs said that a man who recently put a certain picture on the Internet must be arrested.

Mr Nkombo: A video, not picture.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the children must be told to avoid playing around with sex. It is not a box of matches that you can play around with to see how it lights things up. 

Mr Nkombo: Tente.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, in my language, we say, tente ulapia. That means, be careful, you will be burnt. It does not help us to just talk to children about family planning. Why should we do that? Have they got married and want to start producing children? I agree that we should have health insurance for treatment of diseases for all age groups.

Mr Speaker, when you were a child, your age mates never played around with sex.  

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Why are you saying  “My age mates?”

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You may continue, please.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, with all the due respect which they deserve, I wish to state that those who are old today did not play around with sex when they were young. People were marrying when they were above twenty-one years old. We never used to see ladies until they were ready to be married. The ones who were ready to be married were called nakalindu. That used to happen after they had gone through all the stages of training. If you do not understand what the word ‘nakalindu’ means, I am ready to give you some training outside. This time, children want to marry at thirteen or fourteen years old. Where do they get information on sex? Who told them about it? All I am saying is that when we talk about family planning, let us go back to the basics of raising children. Something has gone wrong in the homes. When the children go out half naked in the street, some parents are proud. They do not want to train their children not to dress like that.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, afterwards, the same parents want to mourn and talk about family planning. What is that? 

Hon. Mr Speaker, go back to the basics.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker tried to respond.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I am not talking about you.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I do not know your age, but you look elderly. Your age group did very well …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Do not discuss me. Why are you discussing Mr Speaker? Veer off that route and continue.

Mr Livune: Continue, igwe.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I value your concern. I am impressed with my father’s age group because they knew family planning better. Without injections and pills, they still used to control their families and spaced the birth of their children. When they had a baby, they could only have another one when the previous child was old enough to run around. They knew what to do. Nowadays, before a child starts walking, another one is born. This is because there are milk supplements for feeding the children. 

  Sir, we need insurance cover. This report is very important. I thank the chairperson for talking about the importance of insurance cover in the report. However, I wish he had mentioned that we should go back to the basics. The fibre of our society is being eroded. We have reached a point where child-headed homes are facing a lot of problems. If a child, who has not yet reached a mature age, gets pregnant, giving birth becomes a problem. All other things fall out of place. I am speaking slowly on this point because I witnessed a girl-child aged thirteen years who got pregnant and was having problems when giving birth. 

Mr Speaker, something has gone seriously wrong in our society. People do not want to discuss their age. Some children look so plump even when they are so young. They look plump because of, perhaps, the food that they are given. Some children look like they are sixteen years old and yet they are twelve years old. At sixteen years, they look like they are twenty-one years old. Additionally, some children hide their age, resulting in some men becoming anxious and starting to misbehave. They only find out that there was something wrong after the act.

Sir, poverty in Zambia is a serious problem that we must fight. It is not only found in rural areas, it is also worse in urban areas. We have seen children standing along the streets during the night. I shudder to think what will happen to our society once its fibre has completely broken down. 

Mr Nkombo: Balasambala.

Mr Muntanga: They sell their bodies.

Mr Nkombo interjected.

Laughter 

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, …

Ms Imenda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I am concerned with the hon. Member on the Floor stating that poverty is more serious in urban than rural areas, when statistics show that there is a prevalence rate of above 68 per cent in rural areas. Is he in order to mislead us?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You have adequately debated your point of order.

May the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I was saying that while we are talking about resolving problems in rural areas, we should bear in mind that there are problems in urban areas also. 

Sir, I am aware that a group of soldiers impregnated children in Luena …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … and there was a serious problem there. The whole school was in trouble because over thirty children got pregnant, and the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena was worried.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter {mospagebreak}

Mr Nkombo: Because of poverty.

Mr Muntanga: I want to concur with her that that sort of situation came about because of poverty. The children ended up succumbing to the soldiers who were in Mongu …

Mr Nkombo: They gave them money from their allowance!

Mr Muntanga: … and were given money from the soldiers’ allowances. I agree and I am not belittling that problem.

Sir, the only thing that is of concern is the fibre of our society. It must be checked. Why should we allow our children to behave in the manner they are behaving? This brings me to a certain situation that happened in the village. I was confronted by people over the issue of corporal punishment who were saying that, we in this House, stopped it in schools.

Mr Nkombo: Victim Support, balakujata.

Mr Muntanga: Sir, they said that they now fear to discipline the children because they can be reported to the police. This is what is happening in this era where the call for human rights has taken centre stage much to the detriment of the health of our children.

Mr Speaker, on Page 22 of your report, …

Mr Nkombo: Njenjiye yo!

Mr Muntanga: … your Committee made suggestions which I would like the hon. Minister of Health, Dr Kasonde, to take note of and take the proposals to the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mrs Kabanshi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to this debate on the Report of the Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services. I wish to commend the Committee on the well-written report which has raised salient issues.

Mr Speaker, may I take this opportunity to provide an update on some of the issues that have been raised in the report regarding the availability and uptake of family planning services in Zambia. Based on the observations and recommendations, my ministry would like to inform the House that in terms of improving availability and accessibility of family planning services in rural areas, the ministry is enhancing availability and accessibility by training the community-based distributors (CBD) to provide family planning services as close to the people as possible, at the community level.

Sir, in addition, the Government is also working towards increasing the number of health workers that are being trained in long-term family planning methods. Further, in collaboration with our co-operating partners, the Government is also undertaking the provision of mobile family planning services to selected districts. This initiative will be extended to additional districts especially those that are considered remote.

Mr Speaker, the Committee had also observed that there was need to provide incentives for CBDs. I would like to inform the House that we are currently providing non-monetary incentives to CBDs in form of bicycles, umbrellas and chitenge materials.

Sir, the Committee has recommended that the Executive should adequately fund the Family Planning Scale-up Plan and other related programmes. I do agree with this recommendation and I would like to point out that the budget has steadily been increased from the time we made the commitment in 2012 by, approximately, 70 per cent for both commodities and services for family planning.

Mr Speaker, further, the Committee has also made a recommendation to both ministries with regard to the perceived unprofessional conduct of some health workers towards the youths and unmarried women who seek family planning services.

Sir, there are guidelines and training manuals for family planning in place that emphasise the human rights involved in the accessing of family planning services. This information is being passed on to the health workers as they are being trained and through mentorship initiatives.

Mr Speaker, the Committee also expressed concern on the lack of information on the roles of the two sister ministries with regard to the implementation of family planning programmes. Kindly allow me to take this opportunity to inform the House that the Ministry of Health is responsible for the procurement of the family planning commodities and the provision of long- term training for health workers in family planning. The Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, on the other hand, is responsible for in-service training of health workers on how to provide family planning services and, also, the actual provision of family planning services at the facility level.

Mr Speaker, with regards to the recommendation concerning addressing the shortage of trained staff in the health sector, the Government is opening up training institutions and upgrading existing ones across the country. Secondly, through the Ministry of Health, a national training operational plan has been developed to address the shortage of staff. Thirdly, the Government is setting up a training centre at Chinama Training Institute that will increase the number of graduates to mitigate staff constraints. 

Sir, lastly, the Government has already started to integrate family planning services with other health care services. 

Mr Livune: Question!

Mrs Kabanshi: Sir, this is being done through non-static programmes such as mobile clinics and outreach services including under-five clinics at service delivery points. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member who was saying ‘question’ does not visit the clinics. 

Laughter 

Mrs Kabanshi: Sir, earlier, he was being advised by Hon. Nkombo to go for check-ups at our clinics so that he can benefit from the services which we offer. If he went for voluntary counselling and testing (VCT), he will also be advised to undertake a vasectomy. 

Laughter

Hon. Government Member: And also reduce on obesity. 

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Speaker, may I thank the Committee, once again, for supporting the work of my ministry through its recommendations. I would also like to thank Hon. Hamududu, Hon. Bwalya from Lupososhi and Hon. Nkombo who debated very well. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Member: No Kalomo? 

Mrs Kabanshi: He was invisible. 

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to respond to the report of your Committee.

Sir, I would like to thank the Committee for doing a good job. I agree totally with the hon. Member for Kalomo Central that this is a good report and that it is our duty to take up its recommendations. I would like to thank the Chairperson of the Committee who has demonstrated that his knowledge regarding health insurance is vast. We shall continue to respect his views pending the occasion, which I hope will be soon, when he decides to do the appropriate thing, which is to cross the Floor. 

Laughter 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Dr Kasonde: Sir, I would like to acknowledge the vigorous and enlightening debate of the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, the persuasive presentation of the hon. Member for Lupososhi, the stimulating presentation of the hon. Member for Bweengwa and the forthright and wise presentation by the hon. Member for Kalomo Central. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: Sir, I will limit my observations to three things relating to insurance. We have been advised to be expeditious in processing this legislation. We are ready, as the Ministry of Health, to bring this legislation to the House. However, we have allowed time to pass in order to take into account two major observations about our current draft. One of these is the need to take into account the social security actions that we, as the Government, is taking. We do not want to do things outside that social security context. For this reason, we have had a slight delay in bringing the draft health insurance legislation to this House. 

Mr Speaker, secondly, we are conscious that we should take time to provide, in our legislation, provisions which cater for the poor people. 

Sir, I agree with the Committee that it is important for us to have adequate resources to operationalise the health insurance legislation so that we do not regret having introduced it. We appreciate that we are not only dealing with the amount, but also with the paradigm under which we will be operating. We are talking of not only being providers, but also increasing the capacity of the population to be the purchasers of the services which we will be providing. This paradigm shift means that the level of performance in our institutions should reflect the desires of the people. They will control that by buying the services which we shall be offering. I appreciate the importance of ensuring that resources are available not only for the operationalisation of the legislation, but also the paradigm shift. 

Mr Speaker, I must conclude by saying that we agree that there is need to expedite the process of enacting the health insurance legislation. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for this opportunity to say a few words in winding up this Motion. 

Sir, I would like to thank Hon. Nkombo, Hon. Bwalya, Hon. Hamududu, Hon. Muntanga and the hon. Ministers for their contributions. What is indisputable is that the question of ‘what’ has been answered and the answer is that we need a national health insurance scheme. What your report has brought out in detail is how we are going to put the system in place. We, as a Committee, are ready to engage the two ministers and share the experiences we have had through our tour. 

Sir, I would be doing a disservice to the House if I do not respond to the invitation by the hon. Minister of Health. 

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: I think the hon. Minister of Health is contradicting himself in the sense that he says that he values our input, but yet again wants to deprive himself of the rich experience and wisdom from this side of the House in order to strengthen his ministry and the Government. In a complementary way, we are more valuable here than we would be if we crossed the Floor. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, let me end by saying that the Committee is ready to engage both hon. Ministers because, at the end of the day, it is the majority of us in the rural areas who will feel the brunt of the unavailability of funds to purchase health services when we need them. 

Mr Speaker, I beg to move. 

Question put and agreed to. 

_________

BILL

SECOND READING

THE ZAMBIA CHARTERED INSTITUTE OF LOGISTICS AND TRANSPORT BILL, 2014

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport Bill, 2014 seeks to establish the Zambia Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport and provide for its functions and powers, constitute the national council of the institute, provide for the qualifications and registration of members and provide for incidental matters. 

Sir, despite being highly specialised, the field of logistics and transport in Zambia has existed without official recognition like other professional bodies such as the Engineering Institute of Zambia (EIZ) for engineers. As a result, the practice, growth and development of the logistics and transport profession is lagging behind other professions. This has had a negative impact on the growth and development of the logistics and transport industry as evidenced by the haphazard manner in which logistics and transport systems are being managed. Therefore, there is need to regulate persons practising in the field of logistics and transport through the establishment of a professional code of conduct and ethics. There is also need for the registration of professionals upon the satisfactory fulfillment of national and international requirements.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport Bill, 2014 requires all persons engaged as logisticians and transporters to register with the institute. The Bill seeks to regulate professionals in the field of logistics and transport in line with the best practice that applies nationally and internationally.

Sir, the Bill provides for the registration of members to practise as logisticians and transporters. This will ensure that all businesses are conducted in a professional manner. This will have an additional effect of ensuring that appropriate transport and logistical arrangements are made with respect to goods. This will ensure the preservation and proper use of infrastructure such as the roads and railway lines.

Sir, the Bill provides for the promulgation of a code of ethics to guide the members of the institute. Further, the Bill establishes a disciplinary committee which will deal with misconduct in the two professions.

Sir, the professional regulation of logisticians and transporters will contribute to the development of the transport sector as professionals will be able to determine the best mode of transporting cargo and the effective implementation of logistics.

Mr Speaker, this Bill is timely as there has been no regulatory framework to regulate the logistics and transport sector in the Zambia economy.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference as provided in the Standing Orders, your Committee was on Wednesday, 18th June, 2014 tasked to scrutinise the Zambia Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport Bill, 2014. In order to gain insight, into the ramifications of the Bill, your Committee sought oral and written submissions from various stakeholders.

Sir, let me point out from the outset that all, except one, of the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee were in full support of the Bill. They said that the need for the framework to regulate and develop the transport and logistics sector could not be over-emphasised and that the Bill was long overdue. There were, however, some stakeholders who were apprehensive about the Bill because they thought it would stifle small-scale entrepreneurs in the transport sector by requiring them to register with the institute and pay the prescribed fees. This matter was, however, clarified by officials from the sponsoring ministry as well as the Ministry of Justice who assured your Committee that the Bill was meant to regulate professional practitioners in the sector and not the transport and logistics industry. Since hon. Members have read both the Bill and the Committee’s report, I will just highlight a few salient issues contained in your Committee’s report. With regards to the nomenclature, your Committee observed that the use of the word, ‘chartered’ in the name of the institute is not appropriate because it is normally reserved for institutions which are established under a British Royal Charter. Since the institute is being established by an Act of the Zambian Parliament, your Committee recommends that the name be changed to the Zambia Institute of Logistics and Transport. This change should consequently be applied to the nomenclature of the membership in Clause 23. Your Committee, further, recommends that the terms, ‘transport’ and ‘logistics’, should also be redefined to avoid ambiguity.

Mr Speaker, pertaining to the functions of the proposed institute, Clause 7 (2) (a) to (d), makes an institute a training provider, examiner, certification body as well as regulator of the profession. Your Committee observes that this is anomalous. Ordinarily, this institute is required to oversee the quality of training and the general conduct of professionals. However, when it undertakes to design, prepare and conduct examinations, it effectively becomes a training provider with the authority over all training programmes in the logistics and transport profession. This has the potential to compromise standards. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that the proposed institute should be made to focus on promoting and upholding the standards of the training and professional conduct in the transport and logistics industry. 

Mr Speaker, with regard to the tenure of office of council members, Clause 14 (2) provides that a member of the council may not serve for more than two consecutive terms. This suggests that a member can serve for more than two terms provided that they are not consecutive. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that for purposes of clarity, for the tenure of office of council members other than trustees, a provision such as the one under Clause 20 (3), which says, “The members of the board shall hold office for a term of three years and shall upon expiration of the term be eligible for re-election except that a member shall not serve on the board for more than two terms”, should be adopted. 

Mr Speaker, pertaining to disclosure of interest, your Committee notes that whereas Clause 18 obligates members of the board and committees to declare interest in any matter being considered that relates to them, their spouse, friend, associate or relative, it does not place a similar obligation on a member of the council. Your Committee, therefore, recommends that a council member should also be required to declare such interest.

Finally, Mr Speaker, with regard to classes of membership, your Committee observes that whereas Clause 23 (1) provides for five classes of membership of the institute, only four are mentioned. In addition, corporate membership is not provided for. In this regard, your Committee recommends that corporate membership be considered for inclusion and possibly this should be made the fifth class.

Mr Speaker, this is a non-controversial Bill and your Committee urges the House to support it.

In conclusion, I wish to place on record, your Committee’s indebtedness and gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, for according it the opportunity to scrutinise the Zambia Chartered Institute of Logistics and Transport Bill, 2014. I would also like to thank all the stakeholders that appeared before your Committee and contributed to its deliberations on the Bill. Gratitude also goes to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to your Committee when considering the Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: It is a non-controversial Bill, indeed.  

Mr Muntanga: Yes Mr Speaker, this is a non-controversial Bill. I wish to state that your Committee’s recommendations should not be ignored by the hon. Minister. It has recommended an amendment regarding the part which talks about the membership of chartered members. If that will be done, it will change a number of articles because there are several types of chartered membership mentioned in the Bill. 

Sir, there is another clause that states that “Someone who merely gets a certificate is not a chartered member.” I believe that clause should be removed from the Bill because we do not want to see what has been happening in the past where the hon. Members come here and begin demanding amendments to the Bill which has been passed into law. With those very few comments, I submit.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to wind up the debate. I would like to thank your Committee for the recommendations that it has made. We will be able to look at the recommendations and will bring the necessary amendments to the House so that we handle matters in a proper manner.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Thursday, 17th July, 2014.
__________

MOTION

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications and Chief Whip (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.
__________

The House adjourned at 1230 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 15th July, 2014.