Debates - Wednesday, 23rd July, 2014

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DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 23rd July, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

__________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

MMD WHIP AND DEPUTY WHIP

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have received communication to the effect that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) has elected Mr Reuben R. P. Mtolo, Hon. Member of Parliament for Chipata Central Parliamentary Constituency, as its Whip in the House, replacing Mr Kapembwa Simbao, Hon. Member for Parliament for Senga Hill, and Mr Howard Kunda, Hon. Member of Parliament for Muchinga Parliamentary Constituency, as Deputy Whip.

I thank you.

__________

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

PROGRESS ON THE CONSTRUCTION OF 650 HEALTH POSTS

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to update the House on the construction of the 650 health posts, …

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Dr Kasonde: … arising from the point of order raised by Hon. Gary Nkombo, Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central, in which he alleged that there had been contradictory statements from the Ministry of Health on the matter.

Mr Speaker, let me state from the outset that the construction of 650 health posts is going ahead …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Kasonde: … as planned …

 Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Let me have order on my extreme right. We cannot have noise while a ministerial statement is being issued.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the construction of the 650 health posts is going ahead as planned with the works progressing well in all the ten provinces. All the projects are expected to be completed within a twenty-four month period.

Mr Speaker, allow me to clarify that there has not been any contradiction in statements from my ministry on the official position regarding the construction of the health posts. We have been consistent and always provided a shared position on this matter. Hence, the point of order that the hon. Member raised was simply a result of the misunderstanding of the instructions the hon. Deputy Minister issued as a caution to the contractor covering the Western Province.

Mr Speaker, we, in the Executive, will closely monitor this project so that all contractors stick to the agreed schedule. This is aimed at ensuring that the project is delivered successfully to the Zambian people throughout the country.

Mr Speaker, the construction of the 650 health posts is a massive project. So, there is no way one would expect to see all the 650 structures constructed simultaneously across the country. However, all the contractors are on site and have commenced work. In a meeting I had with them on 8th July, 2014, they assured me that the works will be completed as scheduled.

Sir, the current and updated status of the works across the country, by contractor, is as follows:

Contractor

Jaguar Oversees Ltd (Lot 1=208 Sites)

Province District  Health Post  Progress

Copperbelt Kitwe  Hybrid   Borehole and hand pumps fixed whilst foundations 
    Macademia  have commenced. Sub structure works (Slabs) have 
    Kamatipa  been completed at Hybrid and Macademia
    Council Farm
Malembeka
Misaka/Mwekera
Misaka/Katokamene

Cedricks Farms  Still awaiting decisions on the actual location of sites
Salamano/Kaira
Chipata Compund

  Kalulushi Chisangwa  

Chembe North Borehole and hand pumps fixed and foundation 
Denovan construction commenced
Kamemem
Muskashi
Chiwembeshi

Minsenga Still awaiting decisions on the actual location of the
Sitwe sites
Lwela

Eastern  Chipata  Katambo  Foundations
(68 Sites)   Chingala  Commenced, slabs
    Mwita
  
Central  All  Site validation and  Work to commence first week of August 
(52 Sites)   mobilisation in 
    progress

Angelique International Limited (Lot 2 = 247 sites)

Province District   Health Post   Progress

Luapula  Mansa/Chembe  Site validation in progress  substructure works in progress
     And contractor mobilized  complete in ten out of the twelve 
Sites in Mansa/Chembe. To commence another ten sites in the week commencing 28th July, 2014

North-Western All   Site validation and   to commence ten sites in Solwezi 
(74 Sites)    mobilisation in progress  first week of August

Northern and  All  Site validation in progress  Works to commence in 
Muchinga    and contractor mobilising   August, 2014
(109 Sites)  

Megha Engineering (Lot 3 = 195 sites) 

Province  District   Health Post   Progress

Lusaka  Chongwe/Rufunsa Nachitete   Site possession taken
(32 sites)    Chilayabale   Commenced setting out of 
     Muniyeta   buildings and excavations in
     Kanakantapa   progress

Southern All   Site validation in progress  Commenced in Choma, mobilising
(99 sites)    and contractor mobilising  to proceed to other districts

  Choma   Siasikabole   Commenced 14.7.2014
     Siankope   Work in progress

Western   Kaoma   Lobelombe   
(64 sites)    Maloba Chibuli   
     Inkunikila   Site possession taken.
     Mwanda Sengo   Commenced setting out
     Mulalila    of buildings and excavations
     Lububa    in progress
     Kalalo
     Mbale

Mr Speaker, I reiterate that the construction of 650 health posts is in progress as earlier guided by His Excellency, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, the Republican President. The Government is committed to delivering the health posts to the Zambian people on schedule and updates on the progress of the project will be regularly provided to all hon. Members of Parliament throughout the two-year duration of the projects.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement by the hon. Minister of Health.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. I also thank the hon. Minister for attempting to address my concerns.

Sir, yesterday, the integral part of my point of order, which was a little lengthy, was basically on the report that the hon. Minister has just quoted from, which was presented to this House on 15th July, 2014. On the same day, I saw a circular written by Dr Chikamata, the Permanent Secretary (PS) to the effect that the progress report did not contain any update on the Southern Province. Unfortunately, I cannot produce the circular now because I laid it on the Table yesterday. However, I did not hear the hon. Minister, in his attempt to answer my question, say why that update from his PS did not touch on the progress in the Southern Province. Can he shed some light on that.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the best light I could shed on this issue is to refer to the statement I have just made, which had the following information:

Megha Engineering
  
Province Town Sites  Status

Southern  Choma Siasikabole and Site validation 
(99 Sites)   Siankope  progress and
  contractor 
       mobilising)

Mr Speaker, as I have already said, that reference to the Southern Province was meant to update my previous statement.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, this is the second time the hon. Minister …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I apologise to my friend, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi, for disturbing his line of thought.

Sir, every responsible and civilised government in the world takes a keen interest in the welfare of its citizens, in particular, those who work outside the country. Civilised societies and countries also ensure that, even when it is one individual who finds himself or herself in problems, their cases are specifically followed up and the interests of citizens are safeguarded. That said, recently, one of our citizens, Mr Felix Ngoma, an employee of the International Organisation for Migration (IOM), a wing of the United Nations (UN), was abducted by the Janjaweed Militia in Sudan, and has been a hostage for the last eighteen days.

Hon. Opposition Members: Oh, no!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, the Government of the Republic of Zambia and the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, in particular, have been very quiet on the fate of our citizen, who is an international civil servant. We are aware that the Government is on very friendly terms with the Government of Sudan, which has been accused of collaborating with the Janjaweed. Is the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs, in order, therefore, to remain quiet and allow our dear citizen and brother to suffer at the hands of the Janjaweed instead of taking appropriate action to secure his release? Is it also in order not to inform this House, especially given the fact that our fellow Zambian was kidnapped by an organisation that has been linked to terrorism?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

That is an important point of order but, having worked in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, I also know that there is what is called quiet diplomacy. However, I should not answer for the hon. Minister.

Hon. Minister, if you are able to respond to that, you can do so now. However, if you want to do it later, especially in view of the fact that the point of order has just been raised and you may have been caught unawares, I can give you some time to collect information and bring it before the House rises.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Kalaba):  Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity you have given me to clarify this matter. In fact, I have scheduled a meeting at my office at 1630 hours, this afternoon, at which I will brief the nation on the matter. When you are to make a ministerial statement, you need time to prepare yourself. That notwithstanding, it is true that one of our own has been captured by the mentioned organisation and, as you have rightly said, given the sensitivity of the matter and to avoid endangering the person involved, we have engaged in very quiet diplomacy. We, as a ministry, have acted with a lot of restraint and have been working behind doors. It is not true that we are not doing anything about it. In fact, we have made very huge progress. Our office in Geneva has adequately briefed me this morning that we have made a lot of progress in securing the release of our brother, Mr Ngoma.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member for Mwandi continue, please.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, let me declare interest. Mr Ngoma is my brother-in-law …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Dr Kaingu: … although I initially did not even know. That is why there was a need for a ministerial statement.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can you, please, ask a follow-up question.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I had engaged the hon. Minister of Health on the issue of the clinics and told him that I had not been consulted on the siting of the clinics. It is now clear that, actually, Mwandi has been left out, and this is worrying me because the district is in dire need of clinics. Will the hon. Minister have a special list of health facilities other than the 650 health posts to take care of Mwandi Constituency which, I think, has been omitted in the current programme?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I must remind the hon. Member of Parliament that our practice has been to consult the district authorities, and that includes the hon. Members of Parliament. I do not know why, in this case, the hon. Member was not considered worth consulting by his peers at the local level. However, it was made very clear in writing that the Ministry of Health would not be involved in deciding the sites of the health posts to be constructed because of a fundamental desire to operate through a decentralised decision-making system.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: That remains the policy. Therefore, the hon. Member needs to go back to the district and find out what happened. We remain open to the re-examination of the issue on condition that the request is from the district.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just stated that civil servants, PSs and others, who are in the provincial centres, should have consulted the hon. Members of Parliament. Is he aware that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has instructed the civil servants not to co-operate with Opposition hon. Members of Parliament?

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Ms Imenda: Is he also aware that the instructions were issued through the District Commissioners’ (DCs’) offices?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of that, and I think that that  is not be possible. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government has been open on this issue. It has developed a decentralised system and encouraged consultation at all levels, even between parties. Surely, you could not have had it any better.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, how many centres have been allocated to Rufunsa? I ask this because the hon. Minister said that there would be thirty-two centres between Rufunsa and Chongwe. He had initially given us a number, but I was later told that, as of yesterday, that number had been reduced to two.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, earlier this afternoon, I mentioned the numbers allocated to each province. I did not go into the details of how many would be allocated to the districts. We have done that in a written document that was circulated to all hon. Members of Parliament. Unfortunately, I do not have that document now. So, I am unable to explain to the hon. Member. However, the information is available in writing in the House, in the Hansard or my office. There are many sources from which that information can be obtained.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the project will be completed in twenty-four months. Does that mean that the whole project has a time frame of twenty-four months, meaning that the last health post will be constructed within 24 months of the commencement of the project, or does it mean that the twenty-four months will be with effect from the commencement of the construction of the last health centre?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, we will reckon the time frame from the date on which the construction will begin. The document I circulated indicates the commencement and completion dates in writing. Those dates were presented before this House only a few days ago.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I have noted that the loan we got from India to finance this project has been received with mixed feelings by the ministries of Finance and Health. Were there any alternative sources from whom we could have got the money on better conditions?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I will confine my response to matters outside of the family. I thank you for your guidance.

Sir, we are the Executive. The ministries of Finance and Health speak the same language. I do not understand where the hon. Member found the difference of opinion between the two ministries. It is the Government that made the decision to contract the loan. Whether or not there were alternative sources of funding is a broad question. There are always alternatives in any given situation. We shall borrow again, if we have to, and let hon. Members know what we are doing at all times.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I can confirm seeing the list of proposed health posts that was circulated last year. Will that list remain as circulated or will there be changes in the districts or constituencies? I ask this because there were some people who kept pushing for changes to be made to the agreed list.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, this question allows us to make it clear that the origin of all decisions is at the district level. There have been cases in which districts have revised lists as long as there have not been any increases in the costs because the contracts had already been awarded to the contractors.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Centra): Mr Speaker, I need clarification on the schedule we have just picked from our pigeonholes. It indicates that the installations of prefabricated structures will start in January, 2015, and end in December, 2015. The same schedule also indicates that the installation of equipment will start in May, 2015. Will the equipment be installed before the prefabricated structures have been completed or is it all ‘Don’t Kubeba’?

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I think that the hon. Member should desist from ‘starting’ me.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, can you clarify what you mean because we are live on radio. So, the people should understand what you mean by saying he should not start you.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, there are three phases in the development of each health post. In Phase I, the foundation is laid. In Phase II, a prefabricated structure is put on the foundation and, in Phase III, equipment is installed in the structure. If there is any misunderstanding because of the way we have presented the information or because of language differences, then, may the information be understood in the context of the three phases.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I apologise to my younger brother for interrupting his question.

Sir, I wonder why the hon. Minister is finding it difficult to bring me a list that indicates where the clinics will be built in Mwandi, which is a newly-created district. Is he in order to keep referring to the district when he knows very well that the Ministry of Health has no representation in Mwandi District?

I need your serous ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, respond to the point of order as you answer the question from the hon. Member for Lukulu West.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, in the Western Province, there are sixty-four flood-prone places, but only eight have been chosen in Kaoma District. What assurance can the hon. Minister give the people on the western side of the Zambezi River that the health posts will be built in two years, bearing in mind the fact that the areas are inaccessible during the rainy season? I noticed that the exercise has not yet started even in Liuwa, Sikongo and Mitete.  

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, my attention has already been drawn to the importance of taking account of the impact of the rainy season in the different provinces, and I can disclose that some of the guidance originated from the hon. Member. We are fully aware, and that is why we have a work plans.  In each work plan, such factors are taken into account and integrated in the twenty-four month time frame.

Sir, as for the issue of Mwandi, we are fully aware that there have been changes in its status. I can give an example of one district that was demarcated and the health centres allocated to the original district were re-distributed to account for the change. We know that Mwandi was previously part of Sesheke District. However, when we looked at the implications of the change, we discovered it had no effect on the distribution of health posts.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I will endeavour not to start the hon. Minister of Health.

Sir, the number of health posts allocated to each district is between six and ten. However, in the case of Lukulu, as happens in other sectors, it is only three. Why are we always treated like lepers?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the allocation of health centres was not in accordance with any particular disease. We regarded everybody equal and based the allocation on the distances between existing health facilities and the populations of the districts as assessed by the district. That is our basis and it remains our basis. If the hon. Member is of the view that further consideration needs to be made of his district, I insist that he goes back to the district to ask about the grounds on which the decisions were based.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

CONSTITUTION-MAKING PROCESS

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr E. C. Lungu): Mr Speaker, on Friday, 18th July, 2014, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central Constituency raised a point of order that was essentially a request for an update on the Constitution-making process. Specifically, he wished to know if the Cabinet had had an opportunity to discuss the Cabinet Memorandum prepared by the hon. Minister of Justice.

Sir, as the hon. Members are aware, the Cabinet deliberates on several matters in accordance with its agenda. However, the draft Constitution is an issue that requires adequate preparation and discussion by the members of the Cabinet. Therefore, it will be scheduled for discussion at an appropriate time. As earlier stated in this House, the Government is committed to taking the Constitution-making process forward. Once all the necessary consultations have been concluded by the Cabinet, the hon. Minister of Justice will advise on the next steps that will follow. I wish to reiterate that the legal framework of the Constitution-making process is very clear and will be followed by the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that Zambians have decided not to rest until they have a people-driven Constitution that will meet their aspirations?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that Zambians have resolved to enact for themselves a new Constitution. I must confirm in this House that this Government respects the wishes of the people. That will be the case even this time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, just yesterday, I stated on the Floor of this House that this is a Government that seems to have no understanding of the concept of time. Is the hon. Minister able to clearly indicate the time frame or roadmap that will form the basis for the discussion of the matter by the Cabinet and the eventual enactment of a people-driven Constitution? Why is he running away from stating the time frame?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, this Government fully understands the concept of time. It is 1509 hours right now.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, as for the time frame or roadmap of the Constitution-making process, I have stated that the hon. Minister of Justice will …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr E. C. Lungu: … advise the Cabinet on the next step to follow in the process. Once that has been done, the nation will be informed. We do not want to speculate because we depend on the Ministry of Justice and its competent Attorney-General to guide us in this process.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the Executive can present the Constitution whenever it wills. However, as citizens, we would like the Government to indicate or, at least, give a hint on the way forward regarding the Constitution-making process because the exercise has cost implications. Does the Government find it difficult to do that?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that the Constitution-making process has financial implications for the Republic. In that respect, once the legal framework has been established, the people responsible for the Treasury will look at the finances and determine how much will be committed to the process. For now, it would be speculation to say how much money will be required for the process. We are aware of what is required in the process, including the referendum, if it will be needed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, by this lackadaisical approach …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: … to the process, is the hon. Minister in a way telling the people of Zambia that his Government is not interested in giving them a people-driven Constitution?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I know that the high-sounding words used by the hon. Member may sound different to some people. Suffice it to say that this question has already been asked by Hon. Hamududu and my answer was that we are ready and willing to give Zambians a Constitution that they deserve; one that they will formulate for themselves. It is just a matter of time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, even without referring to the Patriotic Front (PF) Government’s promise to enact the Constitution within ninety days, I believe that reasonable time has now passed during which the promise could have been fulfilled. In September, 2014, the PF Government will clock three years in office. In all fairness, is it the Government’s intention to create criminals from angels by making it necessary for the good people, who have been very patient over this matter, to start taking to the streets in acts of civil disobedience?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, let me start by pointing out that this Government will, in fact, not give Zambians a Constitution. Instead, the people of Zambia people will give themselves the Constitution they have formulated.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Mr E. C. Lungu: We should not make a mistake about that fact. All we are saying is that the legal process requires time because consultations have to be made. The fact that Zambians are renowned for their patience will not be abused by this Government. We know that there is a limit to everyone’s patience.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Lungu: However, we also know that things should be done in a manner befitting a noble cause like this one.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Back-Benchers: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Ema Ministers aba.

Mr Nkombo: What “Ema Ministers”?

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, the hon. Minister and Acting Leader of Government Business …

Ms Imenda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I apologise to the hon. Member who was about to ask a question.

Sir, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has just stated that Zambians will give themselves the Constitution they have formulated. However, he has not answered the question that Hon. Mucheleka asked concerning the roadmap of the Constitution. Is he in order not to do so?

Mr Deputy Speaker: The Acting Leader of Government Business in the House will clarify that as he answers the question from the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, the response of the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House to the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa was that the Government had several items on its agenda and that, at an appropriate time, the Cabinet would do what is expected of it. He has also said that the people of Zambia will give themselves a Constitution. However, that document was stolen, like I said last time, by the Executive from the people, whom it expects to give themselves that Constitution. How in the world, then, can anyone give themselves something that has been hijacked by this PF Government?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, let me start by pointing out that the Government is a representative of the people.

Mr Mukata: Yes!

Mr E. C. Lungu: So, when we say that Zambians will give themselves a Constitution, we are, in fact, implying that, as elected representatives of the people, the Government will …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, at my extreme right!

This is the second time I am asking you to be orderly. The whole bench at the back risks being sent out.

You may continue, Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Mr E. C. Lungu: I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Sir, when we say ‘Zambians’, we are also mindful of the fact that we are privileged to be in the Government and represent the people. So, we cannot use that phrase to the exclusion of the members of the Executive arm of the Government. We are as much Zambians as you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Question!

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, on the roadmap, framework or time frame in which the programme will be implemented, I said that we will depend on the Ministry of Justice and the Attorney-General to tell us the procedures that we will follow, and that the financial implications of the procedures will be analysed by the Ministry of Finance. After that, the nation will be informed. Whether we call it the roadmap, time frame, framework or by whatever name, what we are talking about is the same thing, namely, the path we will follow until we achieve the objective of enacting a new Constitution.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I am surprised that the issue of the Constitution has not yet been scheduled for discussion by the Cabinet. That speaks volumes about the commitment of this Government to giving the people a new Constitution. So, can the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House tell us whether this matter, which has created so much debate in the nation, has been so prioritised as to deserve being discussed by the Cabinet.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, the issue of the Constitution is not dead, but as much alive as any other developmental issue that we discuss in our Cabinet meetings. We have issues to do with education, health and many other sectors, and we have the duty and privilege of prioritising them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, during the run up to the 2011 General Elections, the Patriotic Front (PF) campaigned very strongly in favour of a new Constitution, which it said it would enact within ninety days of getting into office. It also made many promises about jobs, money and many other things. However, like with so many other promises, the one on the Constitution has been forgotten. Would the hon. Minister be surprised if the people of Zambia refused to trust his word on anything at all?
 
Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I hope that the hon. Member is speaking for himself in this respect because the Patriotic Front (PF) still enjoys a lot of support and trust.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, we made a number of promises when we were campaigning, some of which were fulfilled or are still being fulfilled while others are yet to be fulfilled. This does not take away our integrity. What people should know is that it is possible to vary a programme and start from the end instead of the beginning. We re-evaluate our promises on a daily basis and fulfill those we deem to have a higher priority first. As regards the promise of producing a new Constitution in ninety days, indeed, the process started within the ninety days.

Laughter

Mr E. C. Lungu: Therefore, we did fulfill what we promised. However, the process could not end within the ninety days, and this is a fact. All the items on our agenda are being actively pursued. None has been laid aside. At the end of the day, all Zambians will judge us for themselves. No individual will influence their thoughts because they are intelligent enough to know what is good for them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Let us have the last question. 

Mr Mutelo and Dr Kaingu indicated.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I have a list of those who indicated that they wanted to speak and you are not on it. You are indicating now when I am about to ask the last person to pose his question. I will allow the hon. Members for Lukulu East and Lupososhi, respectively, to ask their questions, then, we can move forward.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: I beg your pardon, I meant the hon. Member for Lukulu West.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, there were many statements about the Constitution-making process before and after elections. When will this Government stop shifting the goalpost over this topical issue? When will it stop telling people one thing one day and another the next?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, the Constitution-making process has, indeed, generated many statements from both your right and your left. Suffice it to say that Zambians are glad that the Government has not shifted the goalpost in the process.

Laughter

Mr E. C. Lungu: We are still on course. Zambians would only be worried if there was shifting of goalposts by the PF.

I thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, given the on-going debate on the Constitution, the statements, the aggressiveness and, indeed, the many calls that have come from politicians and the civil society, has the Government put mechanisms in place to ensure that the process is not hijacked by foreign interest?

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, there were a number of issues raised during the consultation stage of this exercise and many foreign ideas and values were peddled. As a Government, we have the mandate to ensure that Zambian values are predominantly reflected in the Constitution. For this reason, I assure the hon. Member of Parliament and the nation that we are on the look-out for foreign values and cultural norms, which are, in fact, obnoxious to Zambians.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Finally, the hon. Member for Mwandi may pose his question.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker:  A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to use the word ‘obnoxious’ when it was ruled unparliamentary by the Chair?

Mr Deputy Speaker: If, indeed, it is unparliamentary, then, the hon. Minister was out of order.

Hon. Member for Mwandi, you may proceed.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, does the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House derive pleasure from the continued use of the current Constitution? As far as he is concerned, …

Hon. Government Members: Derive.

Dr Kaingu: Derive? Thank you very much.

Dr Kaingu: Do you derive …

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Do you ‘deride’ pleasure …

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: … pleasure from the continued use of the current Constitution? Are you saying that there is nothing wrong with it?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, the current Constitution is still functional. For this reason, we can use it until we resolve the process and enact a new one. It is like when you are planning to buy a new car. You use the old car until you buy a new one.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ESTABLISHMENT OF MICRO FINANCE COMPANY FOR CIVIL SERVANTS

645. Mr Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Finance:

(a) what the progress on the establishment of a micro finance company for civil servants was;

(b) how much profit had been made since the establishment of the company; and

(c) who the board members of the company were.

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, the Public Service Micro Finance Company (PSMFC) was registered on 1st March, 2013, under the Companies Act and is situated on the ground floor of the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) Building, off Alick Nkhata Road. In the same months, a seven-member board was put in place in March, 2013, while the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) was appointed in April, 2013. In September, 2013, when the company became operational, officers from the Government were seconded to the company on a three-year contract.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on both my left and right!

Mr Chikwanda: Sir, the company has since disbursed loans amounting to over K70 million to 4,000 Public Service workers in seventy-four districts across the ten provinces of our country.

Mr Speaker, the company has only been in operation for seven months during which time it has incurred both operational and capital expenditure costs. This time frame the company has been operational is too short for it to realise any profit. However, it must be noted that the motivation for the creation of the company was to cushion Public Service workers from exploitatively high interest rates at which banks and other lending institutions provide their services, which leave the workers almost impoverished during and after loan servicing period. The PSMFC is merely a social protection measure whose profit, if any, will be minimal.

Mr Speaker, the board comprises the following members:

 Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

 Can we have order on my right. You are disturbing the hon. Minister.

Mr Chikwanda: Sir, I was saying that the following are the members of the board:

Mr Felix Nkulukusa, Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Finance (Chairperson)

Dr Velepi Mtonga, Permanent Secretary, Cabinet Office, (Vice-Chairperson)

Mrs Pamela Chibonga Kabamba, Permanent Secretary (Budget), Ministry of Finance (Member)

Mr Trevor Kaunda, Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Labour and Social Security (Member)

Ms Senduluka Siafwa, Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants (ZICA) (Member)

Mr Michael Munalula Liweleya, Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) (Member)

Ms Tamara Ngoma, Chief Accountant, Investment and Debt Management (IDM), Ministry of Finance (Member).

Sir, as part of its outreach expansion policy, the PSMFC will invest in a robust ICT infrastructure to enable Public Service workers access the loan facilities on time without the company necessarily having a physical presence countrywide. The company will also work closely with various Government institutions in the provinces and districts to avail the Public Service workers the services that they need.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the civil servants in Chipili have appreciated this Government initiative. On behalf of the people of Chipili, I would like to know when offices will be established in the district so that more civil servants can benefit from the initiative.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I have just stated that we will improve the ICT infrastructure so that we can eliminate the need to have offices all over Zambia, which would be very costly. Through the use of ICTs, people will be able to access loan facilities without any inconvenience.

 I thank you, Sir 

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, …

Ms Namugala: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order.

Mr Mbewe: Zoona!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, before I state my point of order, allow me to read Chapter 12 of the Laws of Zambian, which concerns the privileges of hon. Members of Parliament.

 Hon. MMD Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, Part II says:

“There shall be freedom of speech and debate in the Assembly. Such freedom of speech and debate shall not be liable to be questioned in any court or place outside the Assembly.”

Mr Speaker, last week, during the debate to adopt the Report of your Committee on Modernisation and Support Services, I, amongst other hon. Members of Parliament, lamented the poor conditions of service for your hon. Members of Parliament. Many of us lamented the fact that we are not properly remunerated. From that day to date, I and other hon. Members of Parliament have been attacked and ridiculed by many groups outside this House. I have decided to specifically talk about the attack by Father Gabriel Mwanamwalye, who wrote an article on 20th July, 2014, entitled ‘No Pay Rise for MPs.’ Father Mwanamwalye says the following:

“The demand by our hon. Members of Parliament to have their salaries increased is very topical. As such, it cannot pass without due comment. As things stand, it is very unfortunate and disheartening that our hon. Members of Parliament who, in essence, must embrace sacrifice and virtue, seem to have been ensnared by vices of extreme lucravity  and materialism. The same which has trapped them is clearly seen in the three statements given by some legislators, namely, Mafinga MMD Member of Parliament, Catherine Namugala, Monze UPND Member of Parliament, Jack Mwiimbu, and Chama South PF Member of Parliament, Effron Lungu.’’

Mr Speaker, he goes on to say:

‘‘Namugala’s standpoint is a clear indication that some hon. Members of Parliament suffer from extreme materialism and, thus, they are led by discontentment and intemperance. Hon. Members of Parliament have a salary, sitting allowances and a gratuity. Why should Namugala demand another package, a pension? The demand is one which taxpayers cannot afford.’’

Sir, he moves on and says:

‘‘Coming to Hon. Mwiimbu’s standpoint, that which has been pointed out with regard to Hon. Namugala still holds but, in addition, to insinuate that hon. Members of Parliament are wallowing in poverty is not being realistic and, as such, an insult to many Zambians who struggle to have a decent meal each day.’’

Mr Speaker, he goes on to say:

‘‘Whatever applies to Namugala and Mwiimbu applies to Hon. Lungu, too, but, in addition, Lungu’s standpoint seems to be a rejection of the leadership of sacrifice paradigm and a song of lamentation.”

Mr Speaker, as I have stated in my preamble, we have the freedom of debate in this House. Therefore, is Father Gabriel Mwanamwalye, who is a priest, in order to attack hardworking hon. Members of Parliament both on your left and right? Is he in order, especially since, as we know, all priests have no wives or children and, therefore, cannot understand what it costs to run a home or send children to school?

I need you serious ruling.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, please, let us get things right. That is, indeed, an important point of order.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: However, we must be mindful of one thing, which is that the report of the Committee on Reforms and Modernisation was submitted for the consideration of hon. Members of Parliament. However, we know that there are people outside this House who listen to the live broadcasts of our debates. So, my ruling is that, as Members of Parliament, let us not be deterred from doing our job because of the various opinions that are expressed outside the House. Let us do our job. We know that the people outside this House will express their views in their comments on various national issues, but we have the responsibility to execute our mandate, and we should not be afraid of doing that. I am also aware that various comments have been made to the effect that some of the hon. Members of Parliament, … in fact, according to what I heard, one person has said that 90 per cent or all of the hon. Members of Parliament are not doing anything. Let us allow them to say what they want, but you and I know that we are doing a lot of work out there. I do not think that it is proper for people to cast aspersions on the work of hon. Members of Parliament. They can go to Lundazi and ask the people there and they will be told that the hon. Members of Parliament from Lundazi and other parts of the country are doing the best they can for the good of the country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Kasempa Constituency, you may continue.

Hon. Members: Long live the Chair!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, looking at the composition of the board, it is clear that most of them are civil servants, yet that is a financial institution. Why did the hon. Minister find it prudent to appoint a large number of civil servants instead of business-minded professionals to the board?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, businesses have their own board members. This is a purely Government institution under the Civil Service. So, I think that it would have been inappropriate to appoint people from outside the Civil Service.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, let me commend the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili Constituency, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to raise a very important procedural point of order pertaining to the deliberations of this House.

Sir, yesterday, I raised a point of order on the logic of this House deliberating on a matter that was ultra vires the provisions of the Constitution and you made a ruling, which I quote:

“Hon. Members, although the matter of bringing the Excess Expenditure Appropriation Bill is out of time by seventeen days, contrary to what is provided in the Constitution, the Constitution does not prescribe the sanction for bringing the Bill out of time. Therefore, as has been done by the House on previous occasions when this type of delayed action has happened, that is, in 2000 and 2005, the Excess Expenditure Appropriation Bills were debated and considered accordingly.”

Mr Speaker, you also ruled that we should proceed and debate the matter. I have a number of questions on which I seek your guidance. The first is whether, I, Jack Mwiimbu, Member of Parliament for Monze Central Constituency, who swore before you to uphold the Constitution of the Republic of Zambia, should be allowed to always use loopholes in the Constitution to breach its provisions. Secondly, from today onwards, should we rely on the wrong precedents to justify breaches of the Constitution despite the oath that we took before you to uphold and protect the Constitution?

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I need your serious guidance for I am about to breach a Constitutional provision in which I have identified a loophole.

Mr Deputy Speaker: My serious ruling is that yesterday’s ruling was not meant to condone the delay in bringing matters before the House in accordance with the law. That is the bottom line. Everything should be done in accordance with the law, and I note that the hon. Minister of Finance regretted bringing the Bill seventeen days late. So, we had to look at what we did in the past and thought that, in all fairness, while accepting that that something had gone wrong, we felt that we could go ahead. Further, we knew that there would be a debate at the Second Reading stage of the Bill and, if a need arose, a vote would be taken. So, really, that was not to say we can flout our own rules. We regretted the anomaly but, in spite of that, we still had to proceed. I can only urge those concerned to ensure that we abide by our rules in the future. So, the hon. Member for Monze Central Parliamentary Constituency will not be allowed to flout the rules.

Continue, Hon. Nkombo.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am humbled by that counsel.

Sir, before the point of order was raised, I was congratulating the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili for bringing such a useful question. You will remember that, during the Budget Session, there were inconsistencies surrounding the creation of the Public Service Micro Finance Company (PSMFC) and the allocations of money to staff welfare in the Yellow Book. There were provisions for staff welfare in some votes and provinces, but none in others. Those inconsistencies on the part of the Patriotic Front (PF) disrupted the proceedings because the hon. Minister of Finance, again, pleaded that we adjourned in order for his ministry to harmonise that matter. Now, the hon. Minister is telling us that the company is not yet operational. Given that we actually had to adjourn to remove staff welfare from the Yellow Book, how, in this Budget year, have the civil servants been surviving since we operate an activity-based Budget?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the PSMFC is now operational and disbursing the resources that are made available to it in the Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, considering the fact that the Public Service Micro Finance Company (PSMFC) has not decentralised its operations beyond Lusaka, how do Public Service workers in far-flung areas like Mitete and Chilubi Island access this money that is meant to safeguard their welfare? How are they assisted by the Government in terms of their welfare?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, as a matter of fact, officers of this company have been around the country, particularly in rural areas. Of the 4,000 people who have benefitted from the PSMFC, 75 per cent are in rural areas, especially the far-flung areas of our country.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF KABOMPO GENERAL HOSPITAL

646. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) (on behalf of Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West)) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) when construction of a general hospital in Kabompo, as promised by the Government, would commence;

(b) what the estimated time frame of undertaking the project was; and

(c) when the generator set for Kabompo District Hospital would be installed.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, the upgrading of Kabompo District Hospital into a general hospital commenced in 2014. We started with the assessment of the service scope and equipment and infrastructure needs, and the review and adjustment of the human resource establishment. In 2015, we will commence the expansion of the theatre and construction of two wards.

Sir, we expect to complete the upgrading by the end of 2015.

Mr Speaker, the Government has commenced the tendering processes for procurement of generator sets for a number of hospitals, including Kabompo District Hospital. The tenders were opened two weeks ago and we expect the procurement to be completed in the next two months.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, this question is important because the North-Western Province, in terms of what we have been advised by the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development, will be on the National Electricity Supply Grid very soon. So, is the Government considering the electrification of the hospital as an urgent need?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, that consideration is within the scope of works. We will electrify whatever structure we build at Kabompo District Hospital.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he said that there are a number of generator sets that have been procured for various hospitals across the country. How many are they? Further, is Mpashya Mission Hospital in Rufunsa, which also requested for them, on the list of beneficiaries?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, I would have to check if Rufunsa is on the list. However, I can confirm that we are procuring eighteen sets in the first phase. More will be bought later. On the specifics of the targeted beneficiary districts, I will have to give that information to the hon. Member of Parliament later.

I thank you, Sir.

RELOCATION OF NORTH-WESTERN PROVINCE HEADQUARTERS TO KABOMPO

647. Mr Mwanza (on behalf of Mr Lufuma) asked the Vice-President whether the Government had any plans to relocate the headquarters of the North-Western Province from Solwezi to the centrally-located and spacious Kabompo District and, if so, when the plans would be implemented.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Mwango): Mr Speaker, the designation of an area as a provincial headquarter is a prerogative of the President. That said, the House may wish to note that the Government has no immediate plans to relocate the North-Western Province Headquarters from Solwezi to Kabompo.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, this is another question by the people of the North-Western Province. It has been the humble request of the people of the province, Solwezi West Constituency included, that the provincial capital be moved from Solwezi to Kabompo, and I think some officers in the Government are aware of this. Therefore, why is it not a priority for the Government?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, yes, the request has been made and I am sure that the President will respond at his own time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, when the people of the North-Western Province lament and perceive this Government as one that does not like them, it is because of issues like this one. The province was the second largest after the Northern Province. However, when some new districts were created, it only got one, which was in Hon. Ching’imbu’s area, and intended to hoodwink him into working with the Patriotic Front (PF) Government.

Interruptions

Mr Pande: The desire to move the provincial capital from Solwezi to Kabompo is a critical issue. We also need more districts in the province. The hon. Members from the province ...

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Pande: When will the Government consider the relocation of the provincial capital from Solwezi to Kabompo and the creation of more districts in the North-Western Province, as requested by the people there?

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr E. C. Lungu): Mr Speaker, as it has been stated, that is a prerogative of the President and we believe he will answer at an appropriate time. However, I am surprised that people are now clamouring for new districts when they initially condemned us creating new districts.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, did the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House write to His Excellency the President immediately after receiving this question to find out his position on the matter since it is very important and all the hon. Members of Parliament have agreed that the provincial headquarters should move to Kabompo?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, the standard practice is that when questions are filed, the relevant officers pass them on to the relevant department or ministry for an answer. In this case, the President is aware of the needs …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right!

Mr E. C. Lungu: … and cries of the people of the North-Western Province for the matter to be considered. Like I have already said, in his own time, the President will respond to that demand.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the response from the Office of the Vice-President is, a priori, contradictory in the sense that, on one hand, His Honour the Vice-President says that the Government has no immediate plans to relocate the provincial headquarters while, on another, we are told that the decision is a prerogative of His Excellency the President. Could the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House clearly state what the position is, instead of giving us two contradictory statements.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I know that the Professor is very educated and knows logic.

Mr Livune: Aah, Question!

Mr E. C. Lungu: Logic in our answer is that there are no immediate plans to relocate the North-Western Provincial Headquarters from Solwezi to Kabompo. However, in another breath, we are also saying that, yes, the President is aware of the demand and is considering it. At his own time, he will let the nation know. What is contradictory about those statements? I think that they are coherent.

I thank you, Sir.

NAMING OF PUBLIC INFRASTRUCTURE

648. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Vice-President what the Government policy on the naming of infrastructure after prominent persons, such as former Republican Presidents, was.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, the Government has no policy on the naming of infrastructure after prominent persons, such as former Presidents. The Cabinet considers matters relating to the naming of infrastructure as and when the need arises.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, although the Government does not have plans, I think that it is just common sense that people who serve this country at a highest level, such as Presidents, should be honoured. We have also seen people who get …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Your question, hon. Member for Chembe?

Mr Mbulakulima: I am coming to that, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No. Ask your follow-up question.

Mr Mbulakulima: The follow-up question, which is very harmless, but very important, is: Taking into account the services that Dr Chiluba provided to this nation, has the current Government found it difficult to honour him by naming some infrastructure after him? If it has not found it difficult to do so, when will it, especially that he is the one who helped the Patriotic Front (PF) to be where it is today?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, we have no problem with naming prominent places and features after the late former President, Dr Chiluba, when …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can I have order on my left and right!

May you continue, hon. Minister.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, when the opportunity arises for us to name public infrastructure after the former President, may his soul rest in peace, we will do that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, would it be asking for too much if I suggest that, in the spirit of recognising our great heroes, such as former Presidents, we also appreciate the Vice-Presidents, Prime Ministers, such as Nalumino Mundia and Kebby Musokotwane, and other great men?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, it is not difficult to consider people other than Presidents. The question, in fact, is about ‘prominent persons’, not exclusively about former Presidents. It is about any person worthy of recognition by naming of public infrastructure after them. Our answer is still that we will consider people if and when the time is appropriate.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) had the opportunity, but missed it. We should have named some infrastructure after President Chiluba. The Patriotic Front (PF) is now in power. Can the hon. Minister clarify his statement that the Government will consider the matter if and when an opportunity will arise. What does he mean by that?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, the question was on the Government’s policy on naming infrastructure. We are busy constructing roads, schools and other infrastructure. When the time to christen those structures come, that will be the appropriate time to consider the former President, Dr Chiluba.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, this question by Hon. Mbulakulima is a very important.

Mr Mbulakulima: I always ask very important questions.

Laughter

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, we are leaders here and we need to have public infrastructure named after us ...

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Chipungu: … in one way or the other.

Mr Sing’ombe: Including Jean Kapata.

Mr Chipungu: My question is: This being such an important matter, is the Government not considering coming up with a policy on it ...

Mr Mbulakulima: Yes!

Mr Chipungu: … so that it is guided by the policy instead of just …

Mr Mbulakulima: Shooting in the air.

Mr Chipungu: … arbitrarily making a decision, such as the renaming of the Lusaka International Airport with somebody else’s name?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I do not think that it will be a bad idea for us to formulate a policy.

I thank you, Sir.

MOBILE TELEPHONE SERVICES COVERAGE

649. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the mobile phone service would cover the entire country.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Col. Kaunda): Mr Speaker, the ministry is working on extending and improving mobile communication services across the country.

Sir, 79.4 of Zambia’s land surface had mobile signal coverage in 2013, compared to 78.5 per cent in 2012. The ministry is currently constructing 169 communication towers in unserved and underserved areas to increase mobile communications coverage across the country. The towers are expected to be completed by October, 2014. The target date for mobile communication service coverage for the entire country is 31st December, 2016.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, why is it that places like Nangoma, which is only about 120 km from Lusaka, the Capital City, do not have network coverage? What is the problem with putting towers there?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, there is no problem. We have a two-phased programme. Phase I will end in October, 2014, while Phase II will start in the middle of 2015 or in 2016.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of clarification.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Point of what?

Dr Kaingu: Clarification.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: No.

Mr Nkombo: Procedure.

Mr Deputy Speaker: We do not have a provision for that.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Liuwa, may you continue.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in 2011, …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, it is an honour to be given the opportunity to raise this point of order, which I term a point of clarification.

Mr Deputy Speaker: If it is a point of clarification, I will not allow it.

Dr Kaingu: It is a point of order, Sir.

Sir, this point of order follows your good ruling …

Ms Kapata: It is ‘ruling’, not ifyo.

Dr Kaingu: You are not here to teach me English. What is wrong with you?

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: It was the good ruling on Hon. Namugala’s point of order.

Mr Speaker, your ruling was very good. However, it has opened us, as Members of Parliament, because the people outside will be able to feast on us following that ruling.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services censured me for going to Muvi Studios to discuss what had transpired here. Not only did it censure me, but also suspended me for two weeks. I also remember that one reporter, who decided to ‘feast’ on hon. Members of Parliament was called by the Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services.

 Sir, the Standing Orders are very clear that, as hon. Members of Parliament, we are at liberty to debate ourselves and our welfare.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mwandi, I do not think that we should re-open that debate. I ruled on the point of order raised by the hon. Member for Mafinga and said that we are live on radio and people will express their opinions on what goes on here. I also said that we should not be deterred by what people out there say in doing our work. A lot of things were said and, if we get discouraged by what is said, we will not be able to operate. However, this does not mean that people should feast on us over everything. If they go beyond what is acceptable, we will call them here and will request for measures to be taken. I am not giving an open-ended invitation for people to feast on us. All I said was that we should not be deterred by what people say because it was my belief, and it still is my conviction, that all of us are doing the best that we can for our people. Therefore, that should not continue.
 
The hon. Member for Liuwa may continue.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in 2010, the Government of Zambia, through an arrangement with Airtel, was constructing communication towers all over the country and some foundations were dug at three places in Liuwa, namely, Siluwe, Lukena and Liuwa School. However, the works stopped immediately after the change of Government. What is the Government doing to erect the towers at those places? What is the Government’s programme for raising those towers whose foundations were already dug and the people do not know what to do with the big holes that were left behind by the workers?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the building of the towers by Airtel was a purely private investment. What the Government has done, in order to cut costs, is to build one tower in a particular area for all the private service providers to use, instead of each company erecting a tower in the same area. Therefore, we have gone to our own sites, which were assessed by our technicians, to cover much bigger areas and carter for all the service providers.

I thank you, Sir.

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.{mospagebreak}

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Deputy Speaker: When business was suspended, the House was considering Question 649 and the hon. Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication had just finished responding to a follow-up question by the hon. Member for Liuwa. The hon. Member for Siavonga can ask his follow-up question.

Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the Government’s desire to increase network coverage for mobile telephone services and I believe that it does not only want to increase coverage but usage. However, in the 2014 Budget, the hon. Minister of Finance increased Excise Duty on airtime from 10 to 15 per cent. How does that increment sit in with the Government’s desire to increase the use of mobile telephones in Zambia?
 
Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, there is nothing for nothing.

Laughter

Col. Kaunda: If we want to have more towers in the country, we will have to spend more money, and the money comes from taxes. We need the money to invest in the towers and better service.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, why was Lukulu left out in the initial allocation of towers? Further, can the hon. Minister assure us that we will benefit in the next allocation.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is assured. After the 169 towers, we will buy 275 more. Even after the 275, we will continue to buy more until the whole country is properly covered. If we had omitted Lukulu West from the allocation, we apologise, but it was because there were very few towers to be allocated. We could not install in every area. However, we will cater for all areas that were omitted.

I thank you, Sir.

COMMUNICATION TOWERS ON SCHOOL PREMISES

650. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) whether any rentals were paid to schools in rural areas where communication towers had been erected; and
  
(b) if so, who paid the rentals. 

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, rural primary schools that host communication towers receive rentals from the owners of the towers.

Sir, the rentals are paid by telecommunication companies that own the towers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, there is an Airtel tower at Nambwa Primary School in Nangoma Constituency for which Airtel has refused to pay rentals. When I went to the company, I was told that the Government should be paying the rentals. So, who should pay the rentals between the Government and Airtel?

Laughter

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I said categorically that the owners of the mobile tower in question have the responsibility to pay an allowance to the respective school. It is not the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education that owns the asset. In case you encountered problems with Airtel or Mobile Telecommunication Network (MTN), please, have further discussions with them. They should not run away from their responsibility.

I thank you, Sir.

HUMAN-ANIMAL CONFLICTS IN LAKE MWERU WANTIPA NATIONAL PARK

651. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Tourism and Art what measures the Government had taken to address the human-animal conflicts in Lake Mweru Wantipa National Park and the surrounding areas.

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, according to the records of the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), the predominant human-wildlife conflicts in Kaputa involve hippos and crocodiles, mainly because fishing is the main livelihood activity.

Mr Speaker, the measures put in place by the Government, through ZAWA, to address human- wildlife conflicts in Kaputa are as follows:

(a) community sensitisation and awareness campaigns on how to reduce their vulnerability to crocodile attacks during fishing and other activities, such as fetching water for domestic purposes;

(b) controlling animals by cropping or culling; and

(c) strategic placement of licensed hunters in human-wildlife conflict-prone areas for them to either scare away problematic animals or control them.

Mr Speaker, these interventions were effected by the Department of Game Management Areas and Human-Wildlife Conflicts, and the Office of the Area Warden for Kaputa. However, these reports are only common in the rainy season. From March, 2014, to date, no report of human-animal conflict has been received.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I think that the problem of animal-human conflict is very prevalent throughout the country. When does the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) move in to crop them, for instance, the crocodiles and leopards? We are also affected by this problem in Rufunsa.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, ZAWA moves in to resolve human-animal conflicts immediately we receive a report from the communities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, Lake Mweru Wantipa National Park is one of the biggest in the country. However, there are very few Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) wardens. When is the ministry planning to send more wildlife officers there?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, that has not been brought to our attention. However, if the hon. Member of Parliament puts it in writing, we will see if we can transfer some wildlife officials to that area.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, we, in Kazungula, have also been victims of human-animal conflict.

Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise this point of order and I apologise to the hon. Member on the Floor for distracting his thinking.

Mr Speaker, while the hon. Minister is still on the Floor, is she in order to remain quiet when Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) officers have not been paid for the past five months? We have been told this by the officers, themselves, through our interactions with them. Is she in order not to inform the nation about this predicament affecting ZAWA officers?

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling on this very important point of order.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister will address that as she answers the question by the hon. Member for Katombola.

You may continue, hon. Member for Katombola.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, the people in Kazungula District, particularly in Mandia, have been victims of human-animal conflict. When will this Government consider compensating the victims? 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, there is no compensation to be given to victims of human-animal conflicts because it is not the animals that go into the communities. It is the people who have moved to live where the animals live.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Ms Kapata: People have encroached on game reserves. Therefore, the issue of compensation does not arise.

Mr Speaker, coming to Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa’s point of order, yes, ZAWA employees’ June, 2014, salaries were delayed. However, by last week, all had been paid. The last to be paid were those working in the Kafue National Park. The hon. Member might be talking about village scouts because the ZAWA officers were all paid and we are up to date with their salaries.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. However, you are supposed to raise the points of order after the person I have given the Floor has started debating. Let us get used to the rules because they are ours.

You may continue.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, much obliged. I thought that the hon. Minister would be allowed to finish answering before I could rise.

Mr Speaker, is this hon. Minister for Tourism and Art in order to state that there is no compensation for victims of human-animal conflict because it is people who encroach where animals live when this Government said that human beings were more important than animals when its members were campaigning for election? How can they say that animals are more important than people today? Is she in order to say that animals are normally provoked by people when it is animals that kill people at will?

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Mr Deputy Speaker: There is no serious ruling, ...

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: ... except to say that you have used that point of order to disagree with what the hon. Minister has said. That is the opinion that you hold, and I think that we should follow the rules of our game.

The hon. Member for Liuwa may continue.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, we also have serious human-animal conflicts in Liuwa National Park, which is unique because it is the only one in the country and, perhaps, in the whole world, where human beings …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order on my right!

Dr Musokotwane: ... and wildlife share the same habitat, and it has been so for centuries.

Mr Speaker, the problem, now, is that the buffalo have decided not to eat normal grass in preference for people’s rice.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, what is the hon. Minister doing to compensate the people whose food security is compromised? There is nothing else that we can grow apart from rice. So, when will you tell the buffalo to eat grass?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Do you want the hon. Minister to tell the animals not to eat rice?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I have already said that sensitisation and awareness campaigns are conducted in the communities. Some are advised to fence off their gardens using thorn bushes.

Interruptions

Ms Kapata: Yes. Others use elephant dung mixed with chilli, although the chilli is not good to human beings. Those are some of the measures that we use.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister not aware that, in constituencies like Lundazi …

Mr Livune: Yes, Sir, and Chasefu.

Mr Mwiimbu: … and Chasefu, people in long-established villages have been victims of human-animal conflict not because they go into the game parks, but because the animals stray into their villages? Is she not aware of that situation? If she is, why is she misleading the nation by saying that it is people who go to the game parks, not the animals that go to the villages?

Mr Livune: She has no village.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, like I said earlier, ZAWA is present wherever we have national parks and game management areas (GMAs), and its officers always go to control the situation whenever human-animal conflict is reported.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister being fair to the people of Chirundu, Siavonga, Gwembe, Sinazongwe and Kazungula when she says that it is the people who provoke the animals when the people there go to fetch water from its only sources, the rivers, where they are attacked by crocodiles?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I have said that the people need to report their vulnerability to crocodiles to ZAWA. Otherwise, how can ZAWA know that there are crocodiles if the people do not report? Once reports are submitted, the crocodiles are taken care of.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, you have asked a question and she is answering you. You cannot raise a point of order.

REHABILITATION OF KABOMPO FARMERS’ TRAINING CENTRE

652. Mr Mwanza (on behalf of Mr Lufuma) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when the three structures at Kabompo Farmers’ Training Centre (FTC), whose roofs were blown off in 2012, would be rehabilitated.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, the three structures at Kabompo Farmers’ Training Centre (FTC), whose roofs were blown off in 2012, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order on my left!

Mr Monde: … were two houses and a warehouse. In the ministry’s 2014 Budget, K300,000 has been allocated to the rehabilitation of the FTC. Once the funds have been released by the Ministry of Finance, the rehabilitation works to the structures will commence.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, when will the funds be available? The Minister of Finance is here.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The answer given was that the rehabilitation will be done when the funds have been released. Maybe, the question you are asking is on when the funds will be released, but that cannot go to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock because he, too, depends on the Ministry of Finance. However, the hon. Minister of Finance has taken note and will look at it as and when the funds become available.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, when will the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock ask the hon. Minister of Finance when the money will be released?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, the activities are planned. When there are enough resources, they will be released. We are talking about activities for 2014, which has not yet ended.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, the roofs were blown off in 2012 and this is now 2014. Does the hon. Minister not feel ashamed that the hon. Minister of Finance is not giving him the money?

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: That kind of language is uncivil. If you genuinely want to get an answer, then, be gentle.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the roofs were blown off in 2012 and this is 2014. Two years have passed. Does it mean that the ministry did not prioritise the renovations and ask the hon. Minister of Finance to release the funds all this time? Why has it taken two years? Is this problem only considered when it is made the subject of a question in the House?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, we are not only talking about it in 2014. Remember that the budgeting for a given year is done the previous year. The 2014 Budget was approved in 2013. So, we will renovate the structures this year. For the information of the hon. Member, we are so concerned about that FTC that we have prevented any interruptions in its operations. Farmers are still being trained and we have provided alternative accommodation for them.

I thank you, Sir.

PROMOTION OF A FREE AND VIBRANT MEDIA

653. Mr Mwanza (on behalf of Mr Lufuma) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting what specific measures the Government was taking to promote a free and vibrant media in Zambia.

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Dr Katema): Mr Speaker, since 2011, the Government has embarked on measures, on several fronts, to liberate the media. some of the measures are as follows:

(a) institution of boards in all public media houses;

(b) operationalisation of the Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA), which licenses broadcasting houses. The board of the IBA is about to be announced;

(c) on-going formulation of the media policy to promote a conducive media environment as it will inform the Government’s decisions on media issues; ...

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: I am not sure whether we are listening. The hon. Ministr is speaking and we are talking loudly while seated. Please, can we pay attention.

Dr Katema:

(d) on-going consultations between the ministry and stakeholders on laws, especially in the Penal Code, that may hinder media freedom with the view of proposing the review of such laws. So far, the ministry has met the Zambia Union of Journalists (ZUJ) and the Media Institute of Southern Africa (MISA);

(e)  allowing the public media to make their own editorial decisions and policies; and

(f) allowing the boards to recruit the Chief Executive Officers (CEOs) of the public media. Recently, the Zambia Daily Mail Board advertised and appointed the Chief Executive without Government interference. Currently, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) is advertising the position of Director-General.

Sir, it is, therefore, a fact that the Government is living up to the promise that it would let the media run freely.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I think that your Government is unreliable. During its early days, its policy was that it would privatise the Zambia Daily Mail and the Times of Zambia. Has there been a shift from that policy? Where are we currently?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, if our memory serves us right, this Government said that it would consider floating some shares in the public media to the public.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, of late, we have witnessed a situation in which the private media, in particular, radio stations, have been attacked by PF cadres. Statements have also been made by hon. Ministers threatening media houses that have allowed members of the Opposition to be aired on their private stations. What measures is the Government taking to protect the rights of individuals who feature on the radio?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, the Government’s position has not changed in any way. If somebody is attacked by anybody, that person is supposed to seek redress using the relevant authorities. I think that those authorities lie under the ambit of the Ministry of Home Affairs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the Government was supposed to sell some shares in its media houses to the public. Can the hon. Minister, therefore, confirm that the Government does intend to privatise the media. If he can do that, can he also indicate which date it intends to do so.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, I said that the Government was considering floating some shares to the public in its quest to improve the capital base of the companies.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Member: What have you answered?

Laughter

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, some of the factors that hinder a free media are beyond the control of the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. For example, some overzealous police officers went and surrounded a radio station because one hon. Member who has fallen out of favour with the Government was about to appear. It also happened in the Western Province, where a police officer cancelled a scheduled radio programme. What are you doing about people like these or others who may try and impede the freedom and operations of the media?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, in as much as the Government wants freedom of expression and a free media, it is also interested in keeping peace and order in the country. Therefore, wherever it sees that there might be some breach of peace, the relevant authorities, such as the police under the Ministry of Home Affairs, go there to prevent any breach of peace and order.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, when will the Government start floating the shares to the public?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, I do not know what language I should use here. I said that this matter is being considered. After the consideration, we will know when the shares will be floated. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the question that has been asked is about a vibrant media. What measurers has the Government put in place to make the media in the country free and vibrant?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I can go through the measures that I have already mentioned.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Yes, but be brief.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, the Government has constituted boards in all the public media houses. The Independent Broadcasting Authority (IBA), which is in charge of licensing broadcasting houses is now functional and its board is about to be announced. Further, the ministry is currently in the process of formulating a media policy whose aim is to ensure that the media operates in a conducive environment. That policy will inform Government decisions on media issues. Currently, the ministry is also consulting stakeholders on laws, especially in the Penal Code, that may hinder media freedom. So far, it has met a number of stakeholders from the media fraternity and allowed the public media to make their own editorial decisions. It has also allowed the boards to recruit the CEOs in the media houses that fall under the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting.  

I thank you, Sir.

DELIMITATON OF CONSTITUENCIES AND WARDS

654. Mr Livune asked the Vice-President when the delimitation exercise of constituencies and wards would commence.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), in consultation with stakeholders, commenced the delimitation of wards and polling districts this month, July, 2014. The delimitation of constituencies requires the amendment of Article 62 of the Republican Constitution to provide for an increase in the number of constituencies from the current 150 constituencies.

Sir, the commission has recommended that the number of constituencies be increased to 235. However, notwithstanding the commission’s recommendation, the creation of Chirundu, Sioma and Ngabwe districts from Siavonga, Shang’ombo and Kapiri Mposhi districts, respectively, will require an amendment of the Constitution to provide for the creation of the three new constituencies.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, considering that the current Constitution-making process will not be concluded any time soon, when will the Government bring a Bill to amend the Constitution to provide for the constituencies that the hon. Minister has just mentioned?

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, consultations are on-going. As I said, there will be a mandatory amendment of the Constitution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, what consultations is the Government making, considering that the districts have already been created?

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, it is a bit surprising that the person who is asking this question is a lawyer, who knows that we, as politicians, make policy decisions which, if they need a legal framework, are taken to the Ministry of Justice and the Attorney-General, who provide the relevant facilitation so that the law is changed. Currently, he cannot ask about what consultations we are making because we are handling the same process using the legal machinery, which is in the Ministry of Justice, so that we can bring the Bills to the appropriate institution, Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House who, I suppose, is a lawyer, …

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Mwiimbu: … who should have known that the creation of districts also called for the creation of constituencies in the districts. Is he confirming to the nation that there was no plan, whatsoever, or consideration to adhere to the laws of this country when the districts were created?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: I will leave the matter for the two lawyers to sort out between themselves.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: May the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe continue.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, first of all, I want to thank the great man …

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Mbulakulima: … of Katombola for this great question.

Sir, I have been invited, as an hon. Member of Parliament, to Chembe to witness the delimitation of four wards. Is the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) acting within the legal framework that the hon. Minister has mentioned or is it outside the law? Is the ECZ in order to invite me to attend that illegal meeting?

Laughter

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, if the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) is working in a given area and the stakeholders include the area hon. Member of Parliament, it is only fair that the hon. Member of Parliament is invited so that he/she is part of the process. That should be done in order to lessen problems whereby some hon. Members later tend to question why they were not consulted. So, the hon. Member should find time to go to Chembe.

I thank you, Sir.

REHABILITATION OF KABOMPO POST OFFICE

655. Mr Mwanza (on behalf of Mr Lufuma) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when the dilapidated post office at Kabompo would be rehabilitated.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the Government remains resolute in its commitment to taking postal services closer to the people of Kabompo District. The rehabilitation of post offices in the North-Western Province, including Kabompo, will commence in December, 2014, and are expected to be completed in the second quarter of 2015.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that some staff members at the Ndola Head Office of the Zambia Postal Services Corporation (ZAMPOST) have a propensity to deploy relatives of senior managers to dilapidated stations like Kabompo? If he is aware, what will he do about it?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, I am not aware about the sending of people to dilapidated places. However, as I said, we are in the process of rehabilitating all the post offices in the country. So far, rehabilitation works have already been carried out on some post offices in some towns of our ten provinces, including Lusaka, Kitwe, Ndola, Chipata and Kasama. We are only remaining with a few towns.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, we appreciate the plan to rehabilitate post offices countrywide. However, will the rehabilitation of Kabompo Post Office start in December?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, whenever opportunity to implement the plan occurs, we shall do it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I am very interested in that plan and would like to find out if it includes Mumbwa. Further, when will it be implemented?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the plan I read is for the provincial centres. The districts have their own timetable. However, all districts will be catered for.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, how much money will be required for the rehabilitation of Kabompo Post Office?

Col. Kaunda: Sir, that is a new question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

SKILLS DEVELOPMENT CENTRE AND SPORTS FACILITIES FOR KABOMPO YOUTHS

656. Mr Mwanza (on behalf of Mr Lufuma) asked the Minister of Youth and Sport:

(a) whether the Government had any plans to construct a Youth Skills Development Centre in Kabompo and, if so, when;

(b) whether the Government had any plans to construct a mini stadium in Kabompo in order to encourage youth sporting activities and, if so, when; and

(c) when Kabompo District would be provided with sporting equipment, such as footballs, netballs and jerseys.

Mr E. C. Lungu (on behalf of the Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili)): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Youth and Sport, has a plan to build, at least, one Youth Resource Centre in each district of the country. The construction of a Youth Resource Centre in Kabompo District will commence once funds have been secured.

Sir, the Government has prioritised sports infrastructure as key to sports development in the country. As such, the Ministry of Youth and Sport is constructing a sports complex in Muchinga Province and ultra modern stadia in Livingstone and Mongu. The construction of a mini stadium in Kabompo District will be considered once funds have been made available and plans approved. Lastly, the mandate to provide sports equipment, such as footballs, netballs and jerseys, is in the hands of the specific sports associations, such as the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ). The requested sports equipment will be provided under the ministry according to the development plans in the various districts where the sports activities take place. The ministry is working towards empowering sports associations administratively and in their operations through various measures that are being put in place to empower the National Sports Council of Zambia (NSCZ) to develop sports.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order on my left!

____________{mospagebreak}

MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS 20 AND 21 (1) AND 101

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr E. C. Lungu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 20 and 21 (1), if necessary, and Standing Order 101 be suspended to enable the House to complete all Business on the Order Paper and all matters arising therefrom and that, on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.

Mr Speaker, this is a procedural and non-controversial Motion designed to enable the House conclude its Business today and, thereafter, adjourn sine die.

Sir, the current meeting of the House commenced on Tuesday, 17th June, 2014, and has been sitting for twenty-one days. Today being the last day of the meeting also marks the end of the Third Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. The Fourth Session will begin in September, 2014.

Sir, during this meeting, 275 Questions for Oral Answer and Questions for Written Answer were considered by the House. The House also debated nineteen Motions to adopt Annual Parliamentary Committee reports, three Select Committee reports and one Private Member’s Motion. In addition, nine ministerial statements were made to the House while forty-two papers comprising nineteen annual Parliamentary Committee reports, three Select Committee reports and twenty annual reports from Government and quasi-Government institutions were laid on the Table of the House. By the end of today’s business, the House would have considered and passed three Government Bills.

Mr Speaker, let me also provide some information on two issues raised in the House during His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time last week. The first was the non-payment of pensioners in Chavuma District raised by Hon. Konga, Member of Parliament for Chavuma Constituency while the second was the opening of the Kasaba Bay Runway raised by Hon. G. B. Mwamba, Member of Parliament for Kasama Central Constituency.

Sir, in responding to Hon. Konga’s question, I wish to inform the House that, according to the information made available to the Office of the Vice-President by the Public Service Pensions Fund (PSPF), the PSPF has twenty-two pensioners in Chavuma District, of which twenty are paid through National Savings and Credit Bank NATSAVE while the other two are paid through the post office, as per attached pay schedules, which I will lay on the Table.

Mr Speaker, the PSPF runs its payroll of pensioners by the 16th of every month and beneficiaries’ accounts are credited through the direct debit and credit (DDAC) system. The PSPF reported that the beneficiaries who access their monthly pensions through NATSAVE and may experience a delay in accessing their funds due to the fact that the bank is not on the Zambia Electronic Clearing House. I am glad, however, to report that the hon. Minister of Finance has assured this House that the matter is being looked into. The funds are usually channelled through the principal bank, NATSAVE, hence the delay. However, by the end of June, 2014, the PSPF was up-to-date with payments to pensioners in Chavuma District.

Sir, in response to the second question, the construction of the Kasaba Bay Runway is still the subject of investigations by the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) and a committee is actively reviewing modalities for its resumption. A concrete plan of action is expected to be in place by 30th August, 2014.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members should also note that the House’s scheduled programme of work has been accomplished and the main purpose for which it was convened, that is, consideration and adoption of Parliamentary Committee reports, has been achieved.

Sir, the Government is committed to taking the recommendations of the Committees seriously and to acting on them accordingly. In this regard, allow me to thank all hon. Members of Parliament, in general, and members of the various Committees, in particular, for their dedication to duty and the constructive and invaluable contributions made during the meeting.

Mr Speaker, allow me also to thank the hon. Members for ensuring that the business of the House was transacted in an orderly manner. Having accomplished the business set before it, it is appropriate for the House to go on recess so that all hon. Members may proceed to their respective constituencies and attend to other equally-challenging national assignments.

Mr Speaker, I have heard people complain that they are not aware of the on-going delimitation exercise. However, with this passage of time and the freedom they have to get back to their constituencies, they will all participate in the process so that we do not have queries when they come back.

Sir, as the House might be aware, the Government is committed to promoting the well-being of its people by ensuring that various projects aimed at poverty reduction are implemented and well executed. Hon. Members are, thus, urged to take keen interest in these developmental projects and various infrastructures being implemented in the various constituencies. In this respect, on-the-spot checks by hon. Members during the recess and subsequent feedback to concerned ministries are important as we endeavour to develop this nation.

Mr Speaker, I am happy to note that the Government has already started the distribution of farming inputs for the 2014/2015 Planting Season. The Government is committed to ensuring that all farming inputs are distributed to beneficiaries on time, which is before the onset of the rainy season, so that we record yet another bumper harvest next year. Therefore, it is important that hon. Members use the recess to ensure that the farming inputs are available and distributed in all their constituencies.

Sir, as I conclude, let me commend Mr Speaker, you and the hon. Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House most sincerely for the efficient and impartial manner in which you guided the business of the House.

Mr Speaker, let me also express my profound gratitude to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the excellent services they continue to render to this House. I am also grateful to the staff at the Office of the Vice-President and other Government ministries and departments for the support and assistance they provided to the House, which contributed to the success of the meeting.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Before I ask for any further debate, I just want to remind hon. Members that, as we have been told, this Motion is procedural. Therefore, let us not be repetitious of our own statements or those of others so that we may proceed smoothly.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, this is a non-controversial Motion and, outrightly, I want to say that I support it. I will avoid repeating the words of the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.
 
Sir, I am impressed that, during this sitting, we have conducted ourselves in a brotherly and sisterly manner towards one another as people who belong to one home and one family, Zambia. Therefore, when we move out of here, we should make sure that the spirit in which we have deliberated in this House; the spirit with which …

Mr Chansa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, I cannot allow you to raise the point of order. Besides, you are sitting in the wrong place.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Therefore, you cannot raise a point of order from there.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, can I continue?

Mr Deputy Speaker: You may continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, the spirit in which we have deliberated in this House and interacted with one another should continue as we adjourn sine die. I think, that is the picture that Zambians want us to portray.

Mr Speaker, when we are in this House, we behave like brothers and sisters but, when we go outside, we want to hire people to go at one another’s throats. That is not the Zambian way of doing things. Therefore, the spirit of One Zambia, One nation; the spirit of oneness that we have shown here, should be emulated even when we go to areas where there are by-elections. We should provide leadership and say that Zambia is the only country we have.

Sir, I was happy to note that there are some people among us who have second homes and, when they go to their original homes, they even have pipers.

 Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, most of us in this House will never have a second home. Therefore, if we do not take care of our country, our God-given inheritance, we will have ourselves to blame. We will, especially, be blamed by our grandchildren, for some of us who have grandchildren. They will never forgive us for our recklessness, greed and selfishness.

 Mr Speaker, I put it on record that I drink whisky. So, when we are here, I enjoy whisky with most of the senior hon. Ministers.

Hon. Government Members: Which one?

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, I enjoy interacting with them. Therefore, the issue of being in the Opposition or the Ruling Party should not bring segregation. As we go on recess, we should remember that Article IV of the Constitution of Zambia was changed to enable this country to become a multi-party democracy. Therefore, the way we can ensure our existence is not through the use of weapons and coercion, but through persuasion.

 Mr Speaker, I am going to campaign in Mangango and I will ensure that I raise issues. I, therefore, hope that what happened in Katuba, where, on the last day of campaigning, people were prevented from voting, does not happen. That was very wrong, and I hope the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is listening. He should deal with those who intend to export violence to Mangango. If the State will sponsor violence and, then, cast a blind eye, we are prepared, as citizens, to stop that violence so that Zambia does not degenerate into civil disobedience. I, therefore, hope that the hon.  Minister of Home Affairs will give us the guarantee that the Zambia Police Force will be impartial and not be selective in who to arrest because, nowadays, some people perpetuate violence and disturb elections but, when Zambians rise against them, the ones who are defending themselves are the ones who are arrested.

Sir, we are resolved to go to Mangango and, if people from United Party for National Development (UPND), Patriotic Front (PF) or Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) camps try to cause confusion to the peaceful people of Mangango, we will be there to ensure that the peace prevailing in the area is upheld. Some of us are prepared to uphold the peace of Zambia by being in the forefront of stopping the violence that some people want to promote. Nowadays, I go to the gym almost everyday.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, some of you may have seen that I have been playing football. Therefore, if you decide to bring the thugs who usually disrupt elections, I will be in the forefront of protecting the people of Zambia.

Sir, our friends in Zimbabwe shed blood and died for their country. Therefore, even if you want to drag me to the police, I am prepared to defend the peace and tranquillity of Mangango. We should not have sacred cows, whereby the hon. Minister of Home Affairs and other officials go and perpetuate conflict and go scot-free. We will not be scared.  Zambia is a peaceful country and we have never fought for freedom. I hope that it will remain that way.

Mr Speaker, my constituency, Katuba, is just near Chikumbi Camp, where our friends lost their lives fighting for their freedom, but we have never gone through that in this country. So, do not bring such nonsense to this country.

Hon. Members: No! 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, once again, let us be civil. When I gave you the Floor, I expected you to debate in a civil manner.

 You may continue.

 Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I withdraw that word.

Sir, let us not drag ourselves to a situation in which outsiders will think that there is a civil war in Zambia. As we leave this House, let us do it as Catholics do when they have finished their prayers, which is, everyone saying ‘hello’ to their neighbours, because this House represents the composition of Zambia. The hon. Members seated here are a microcosmic composite of the Zambian people. If you are failing, just pull up your socks. You do not have to come and rip Shakafuswa to show that you are doing better. As Zambians, let us continue to promote peace and tranquillity in this country.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate this Motion. I will not be long.

Sir, Zambia is the only country where you find an employee paying for a vehicle that is not his and a person paying insurance for property that is not his. I do not know what the International Labour Organisation (ILO) is doing to stop what is happening.

Sir, as we go on recess, I intend to go to court to stop this institution from getting money from me on a vehicle that does not belong to me.

Laughter

 Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member for Mwandi, get back to the Motion.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I am very scared to go to my constituency, Mwandi, because I do not know what to tell my electorates about water that was promised to them on the Floor of this House, but has not been delivered. I am scared to go there because we do not have the communication towers that we were promised on the Floor of this House. I may also not be able to go there because the fuel that I am paid for by this institution is inadequate. I just wanted to put that on record.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.  

Laughter

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I commend you for your guidance on this non-controversial Motion moved by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Sir, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, at the tail-end of his submission, indicated that we completed this particular meeting in an orderly manner. In agreeing with him, I commend all the hon. Members of Parliament.

Sir, according to my calculation, there were 175 questions raised in the House. Of those, 140 were Questions for Oral Answer. My observation is that the calibre or effectiveness of our oversight on the Executive has been greatly hampered by the inadequate manner in which the Executive has answered the questions. The Executive, in some instances, deliberately chose to give inadequate responses to some questions and, in other instances, and I can only speculate, it did so due to a lack of knowledge.

Mr Speaker, in my eight years of being a Member of Parliament, this is the only sitting that has seen an unprecedented number of points of order raised on account of hon. Opposition Members of the Legislative Assembly being dissatisfied with the manner in which questions were answered. That is a fact because I did my calculations. The last twenty-one days have seen the highest number of points of order in which hon. Members said that hon. Ministers did not answer the questions satisfactorily. This is an indictment on all of us, including the Chair. In the future, in order to dispense time wisely, it will be very helpful if the members of the Executive are compelled to answer questions satisfactorily. An example that I can cite is what happened yesterday, whereby my brother and friend, who has just looked up now, refused to answer a question with impunity. The questioner sought to know the shortest route between the North-Western and Western provinces, but he had to rise on a point of order for that kind of information. Going into the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, Sir, we can help one another and the people whose interests and aspirations we represent by having meaningful engagements between the Executive and the Opposition.

Mr Speaker, in Mazabuka, there is an issue that concerns the hon. Ministers of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, and Local Government and Housing, namely, the state of the Turnpike/Mazabuka Road, about which we have lamented to the Government repeatedly.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, at every point of engagement and, sometimes, even at traditional ceremonies, we have lamented to the PF Government the need to preserve lives by mending that road because it is very important economically. As we know, the railway network is still in shambles. So, most of the bulky cargo is transported by huge trucks moving on road. To add insult to injury, I come from Mazabuka, where we have a sugar plantation ... it is important for this House to listen carefully. That stretch is under stress because tonnes of sugar, which provides Zambians Vitamin A to Zambians, are transported on that road.

Sir, when it comes to accidents, the law of nature does not select between who comes from Mazabuka and who does not. If you go to check at the Kafue and Mazabuka mortuaries, you will find that most fatalities resulting from the poor state of that road involve people who are not even domiciled in Mazabuka. The people of Mazabuka understand the state of that road since they drive on it frequently. I can actually tell you that, when driving to my constituency, I, sometimes, drive with my eyes closed because I know where the craters and potholes are. However, what about the drivers from Durban, Cape Town and Johannesburg, who haul stuff to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and do not know where these craters are? We have had tragedies.

Mr Speaker, in the 2013 Budget, this PF Government allocated some money to work on 20 km of township roads. However, it abrogated that commitment in the guise of competing needs. I am moribund because I am one of the people who approve the Budgets. So, when I saw an allocation, in the Yellow Book, for 20 km of bituminous-standard roads in Mazabuka, I was excited. This is another of the people’s fault, PF. In the 2014 Budget, there was another allocation for 20 km of roads, bringing the total to 40 km. We are getting to the end of the year and I am told that the Government might be mobilising China Jiangxi to go to Mazabuka. I shall not stop reminding these colleagues about what is expected of them, and they should not think, for one second, that, now that we are going on recess, we will give them breathing space. Akuna. Nothing. We need you to honour your obligations. There have been too many lofty statements by the PF. I know that it is expensive to upgrade roads to bituminous standards but, if you do not intend to do it, then, do not put it in the Yellow Book. Do not make some of us be part of broken promises because we told the people that we represent that the Government had said that it would do these things. Now, I want to say that I am taking part of the blame. The people are saying that the MP has not fixed the road and I am taking the insults on behalf of these people. Look at them (pointing at hon. Government Members).

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, Hon. Nkombo!

You know, that is why, sometimes, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

When we sit here, very carefully listening, sometimes, it may be that you, Hon. Nkombo, take a swipe at the Chair, saying that we must compel the Executive to do what they must. However, you make it difficult for us to make proper rulings by using that type of language. So, much as I appreciate your point, bear in mind that we may do our best, but you should not expect us to always follow what you expect us to do.

You may continue.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I am most obliged and I withdraw that expression. I made it so that you should look at them. I need them to honour their words. That is the gist of my argument.

Sir, moving on, as we adjourn today, I want to put on record my full accolades to the Judiciary of this country for unlocking the impasse that led to the deprivation of Zambians in Vubwi, Kasenengwa, Solwezi Central, Mkushi South and Zambezi West constituencies of representation in Parliament. You have heard me lament that situation vehemently. I hope, the cases involving Petauke, Malambo and Mulobezi constituencies will soon come to the same resolution so that the Zambian people can get full representation of their needs and aspirations in this House, and to meet the Constitutional requirement of being represented by an hon. Member of Parliament. The cases have dragged on for a while, and I take my hat off to the Judiciary for delivering a just judgment on this matter against all the odds of working under a regime perceived to be brutal and selfish. Come the by-elections for these constituencies, Zambians will speak loudly. I am sure that the Mangango By-election on 19th August, 2014, which is a litmus test, will speak volumes about the popularity of the different political parties in the country. We will see whether the hon. Minister of Defence, who is now Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, is right when he says that the Patriotic Front (PF) still enjoys maximum support.

Mr Speaker, without seeming repetitive, I will just emphasise our need to demonstrate a spirit of peace and unity as we head to Independence Day, on 24th October, 2014. In this regard, the Mangango By-election should be incident-free in terms of violence. There should be no intimidation of one man by another. There is absolutely no need for hon. Members on your right to even say that they are ready for the by-elections. The PF created these by-elections deliberately. Therefore, let us go out there and fulfil the Constitutional requirement of filling the gaps in the representation of our people in this House. Those constituencies should have hon. Members of Parliament.

Sir, the hon. Minister of Defence, my colleague and friend, in his response on a matter that we shall not stop talking about, which is that of the Constitution, gave an example that I find to be frivolous and vexatious. In stressing the point that the current Constitution is functional, he gave the example of an old and defective car, saying that, if you intend to buy a new car, you cannot throw away the old one. I want to put it to him that such an example is a demonstration of the PF’s unwillingness to give Zambians a new Constitution.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: If it is okay to drive defective cars, why does the PF Government not disband the institution that deals with the road-worthiness of vehicles? Why, too, did the hon. Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication turn his job to that of a Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) officer and start checking the road-worthiness of vehicles? If he thinks that an old vehicle can be used even when you have a new one parked in your garage, but one of the family members has decided to hide the key …

Mr Kapeya: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, I am a worried person.

Interruptions

Mr Kapeya: The Motion on the Floor is straightforward. It is on the suspension of Standing Orders so that all business on the Order Paper can be completed. Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central in order to digress from the Motion and start talking about road traffic accidents and other things?

I need your serious ruling.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member, as you debate, take that point of order into consideration. However, let me also suggest that one way in which we could have done this after the Motion was moved was to simply pass it because it is simple and straightforward. However, since we are allow ourselves to debate, we cannot curtail anyone.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I salute you for your wise ruling. For us to follow a route that allows us to circumvent the real reason we came here for, we need to change the Standing Orders.

Sir, there is a definite connection between what I am saying and the Motion on the Floor. For the purpose of making some people understand, let me explain that the reason this Motion is moved is that we make reflections on and appraisal of how we have served the Zambian people. It is simple and straightforward. If we are to say that we adjourn without reflecting on how the Sitting has gone, it will be an academic exercise. It is a reminder …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

A ruling has been made to the effect that we continue with the debate. So, just continue with your debate without going back to the point of order.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I am greatly indebted to you for your wisdom.

Sir, I was in the process of moving to another point related to this adjournment. Last year, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lubansenshi came with a complaint here about police officers who had, under the instructions of the hon. Member of Parliament for Shiwang’andu, stopped him from exercising his duty as a representative of his constituency. However, in moving this Motion, the hon. Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has told us to go into our constituencies and inspect projects so that we can be effective in our oversight role. I want to remind the Executive that the police must not hunt us down as we do our work in our constituencies under the guise of the Public Order Act.

Sir, we have only two years before the next general election. When members of the PF were in the Opposition, they campaigned everyday for ten years without ever being encumbered by anyone in doing what they wanted. So, we are going on recess with a view to fully campaigning for an election that we are sure will come in 2016. We will campaign for ourselves, our party and our presidential candidate, Mr Hakainde Hichilema. If the police will come and try to apply that draconian Public Order Act, we will meet them with full force. I want to make that clear right here.

Sir, it is true that the PF has used its invisible hand to control the police in order to inhibit and exclude hon. Members of Parliament, councillors and even people who simply hold a different opinion to its own by encumbering them from meeting fellow Zambians. His Honour the Vice-President said, in this Sitting, that there was a small political party from the south that is campaigning. Yes, I want to confirm that we are campaigning very hard and we will not stop.

Sir, I would like to terminate my debate by saying that, as we depart, let us remember that the Head of State, His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, on three consecutive occasions, has made many promises on the issue of the Constitution while addressing this august House. The day we come for the Fourth Session and the President comes to officially open Parliament is when the PF will realise the amount of embarrassment it has caused itself by dodging, ducking and diving on the issue of the Constitution because we expect the Head of State to make another pronouncement.

Sir, earlier, I was about to ask what point there is in driving an old wreck of a car with defective brakes, one light and no indicators when you have a brand new unregistered car parked in the garage because someone has hidden the key? If you tell your children to just drive the same old wreck, they will crash. That is similar to what has happened over the Constitution issue. We expect the Head of State, when he comes to address us on the Official Opening of Parliament, to give us a fresh breath of hope by giving us our document, which has been unlawfully abducted by the PF.

Dr Kaingu: Abducted.

Mr Nkombo: It is a huge indictment, hon. Colleagues. It is too late for you. You should have redeemed yourselves by giving us the roadmap, at least. You should have done that even if you told us that it would be one year later.

Mr Speaker, when Mr Sata comes to sit there near where you are, we shall, through me, do extraordinary things on the Floor of the House ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … in demanding a people-driven Constitution, just there between the leopard and the lion.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, we are not moved by certain things. As far as we are concerned, we cannot continue to be moribund and simply respond to the whims and desires of the PF when it blatantly gave Zambians hope that it would deliver the Constitution within ninety days. Today, its members want to play with semantics and say that they started the process within the given time frame. Zambians are awake and they will punish these people. The punishment that will be meted out on the PF is too ghastly to contemplate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: This is a political party that will go on record as having ruled for only one term because of its inconsistencies which, in the Bemba language, is commonly known as bufi.

Sir, it is my sincere expectation that, by the time the President comes to address this House, he will say, “We have already disbursed the document to the people to debate” and make a comment on the referendum.

Sir, thank you very much.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I support the Motion. In doing so, however, I want to inform you that we have a cry in our language, which goes like, ‘Mawe!’.

Hon. Opposition Members: Mawe, mawe!

Laughter

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, We are crying, in Rufunsa, because we wonder why we are so disadvantaged in terms of development. The only thing we see is the electricity that was taken to the area by this former hon. Minister here (pointed at Hon. Mucheleka).

Mr Ng’onga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima: It was Hon. Konga.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Ndalamei: Konga mawe!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, thank you for according the opportunity to raise this point of order.

Sir, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Rufunsa in order to mislead the nation by standing and lamenting, “Mawe!” and saying that his constituency has been disadvantaged when, in fact, from his own words, there is so much development in his constituency that that nobody can unseat him?

I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Mawe, mawe!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Member for Rufunsa, you may continue, but take that point of order into account.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, mawe!

Laughter

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, the electricity that the PF talks about so much was taken to the area under the MMD by my brother here (pointed at Hon. Mucheleka).

Mr Mucheleka: Aah! Not me.

Mr Chipungu: Sorry, it was Hon. Konga, who was the hon. Minister then. The project was signed for by my brother, Mr Mupwaya, who was the Managing Director of the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO).

Mr Speaker, the district was created by me.

Ms Kapata: Aah!

Mr Chipungu: When my colleague, the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i had his constituency turned into a district, I went to the then President, Mr Rupiah Banda, and pleaded with him to turn our area into a district, too.

Ms Kapata: Did you get it?

Mr Chipungu: No. Mr Banda said that he would grant our request after winning the elections, but we lost, of course. I am happy that Mr Sata, who came thereafter, gave us the district. However, these are the only two issues. The development that I boast about is what we left in place as the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). It is ‘mawe’.

Mr Speaker, I will give you the example of the mobile telecommunication towers we have been talking about. The then Minister of Transport and Communications, Hon. Professor Lungwangwa, laboured so much to facilitate their erection. He went there and secured a site where to construct the tower. However, we still have typical rural areas like Shikabeta, where you cannot call anybody by mobile phone because there is no network. I do not know the criterion that the hon. Minister is talking about having used to allocate the towers. If he cannot consider an area like Shikabeta, which other place should he consider? It is truly ‘mawe’ in the area. We are crying.

Mr Speaker, the 650 health posts to be constructed is another issue. Like the hon. Member of Parliament for Mwandi said, I am also scared of going back to the constituency because I told the people that we had been allocated eleven health posts by the Government.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order.

Sir, I am shocked by the hon. Member debating and his ‘mawe’ code. I have with me an advertisement in which the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication is advertising tenders for infrastructure development projects to be implemented in twenty-eight newly-created districts. The fourteenth on the list is Rufunsa District. For the benefit of the members of the public listening, I will mention the infrastructure that is going to this district. There is construction of a council office block and associated external works, two high-cost houses, a police station with six houses and ten medium-cost houses. If this is not development, ...
 
Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Here, Sir. Twenty …

Mr Livune: Iwe, what are you saying? Where is the development?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Look here.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, we come to debate …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

He is on the Floor. Why can you not listen to him?

Mr Nkombo: He has finished.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: I have not finished.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: I get the impression that we want to use this Motion to debate things that we should not. Let us not do that. These are times when I do the unexpected and, when I do that, you begin crying.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Deputy Speaker: If you want us to do the right things, ... you see, we are here just to guide. However, I think, we should not be pushed too far. Do not think that we are influenced by whatever view you hold. We have our own views and positions.

May the hon. Member on the Floor continue.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the newspaper I am quoting from is dated 21st July, 2014.

Is the hon. Member debating, in order to continue crying instead of being happy, as he goes back to his constituency to inform his people about these significant developments in his district?

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member debating, take that point of order into account as you continue your debate.

Mr Chipungu: Sir, these are the issues that the people of Rufunsa will raise when I go there. They will ask me about the 650 health posts of which we were allocated eleven, and which we distributed to the neediest areas but, today, I am told that we will only get two. I still have to verify this information, though. Where will the other nine health centres be taken? This is a problem. The cry still goes, ‘mawe!’.

Mr Speaker, drinking water is also a problem in Rufunsa. We do not have rivers in our constituency. Therefore, we have been asking for boreholes, but got none. What will I tell the people? These are the difficulties that I am going to face.

Mr Speaker, I moved a Motion over the indiscriminate cutting down of the mukula tree in Rufunsa. To date, no hon. Minister or senior Government official has gone there to verify what is obtaining. People are still cutting the trees unregulated. It is all ‘mawe!’ People are dying in that area because of the cutting down of the mukula tree. When will we see Government officers going there to regulate the industry? I cannot do it on my own, as Member of Parliament. A Government official should go there and hold meetings to discourage the practice. The Government is losing revenue it could have been collecting by taxing the people who are logging in my constituency. When I go back, my people will ask me what is happening and why their communities are disadvantaged. They are not given licences to participate in the timber industry, but they see people from Lusaka going there to cut their tree. What is their benefit, as a constituency? The local people are crying, ‘‘Mawe!’’

Mr Speaker, I am sure that the House might remember that I once asked His Honour the Vice-President about the accidents between Chongwe and Luangwa Bridge and, I think, he just made fun of it. However, people are dying. There is an accident between Chongwe and Luangwa Bridge almost every week. What is the Government doing about that?

Mr Speaker, people have requested me to ask the Government to consider banning the Toyota Hiace minibuses between Lusaka and Luangwa Bridge and to only allow Rosa minibuses.

Hon. Col. Panji Kaunda, since you are very good in this aspect, please, help us. Let us ban the small minibuses because these are killing people. They are killing yours and my voters. Mind you, you will need those people who are dying in 2016. If they die, who will vote for you and me?

Mr Speaker, the last point I want to talk about is the hunger situation.

Sir, I do not need to come here to remind the Government about the hunger situation in Shikabeta, Chomba and Lubalashi all the time. The Government already knows. Hon. Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President, you already know that those areas are like Luangwa District, which does not produce maize, but lives on hand-outs. There is hunger in many parts of Rufunsa Constituency and the people are crying. I want you, hon. Deputy Minister, to, please, talk to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU). I am tired of going there and talking to them, but achieving nothing. You go and tell them for me to, please, send relief food to Chomba, Shikabeta, Lubalashi, Shimunguwo and Chipeketi, where people are dying.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Hon. Member: How are they crying?

Mr Chipungu: Mawe!

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: You know, that is the kind of behaviour that forces us to conclude that we have exhausted our debate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: I find it odd that we should continue with this kind of debate. However, I will give you the benefit of doubt. I will allow one more debater before I ask the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House to wind up.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to debate the Motion.

Sir, we should, indeed, congratulate ourselves for successfully ending the Third Session of this Assembly. We look forward to the fourth, which is but one leg before we end our five-year mandate that the people of Zambia have given us.

Sir, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has referred to the need for us to go and inspect projects in our constituencies. With specific reference to the people of Nalikwanda, it is very clear to them that our development process, as a nation, in the light of our democratic way of life, is supposed to be all-inclusive. It is supposed to be anchored on the virtues of justice, fairness and equity. However, since 2011, the people of Nalikwanda have not seen any development in their area.

Mr Speaker, my people’s only plea to the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, in the interest of inclusiveness, fairness and equity, is the rehabilitation of 55 km Namushakendi/Nakanya Road, which is so dilapidated that there are no vehicles that use it.

Sir, the hon. Minister of Finance has, on several occasions, when presenting the Budget to the House, mentioned the terms ‘equity’ and ‘inclusiveness’, and the people of Nalikwanda have listened and asked how inclusive the pronouncement of inclusiveness in the Government Budget are when our colleagues, for three years now, have failed to rehabilitate a mere 55 km road. This is the challenge. We expect the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to, over the next two months, before the commencement of the rainy season, take time to go and see the Namushakendi/Nakanya Road. I am happy that Hon. Yaluma, when he was in that ministry, took time to drive with me on the road and accepted that it was bad. He also promised to include it in the Link Zambia 8,000. Of course, that has been done, but no actual progress has been made, so far, in its rehabilitation. I hope that the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Mr Yamfwa Mukanga, will approach the hon. Minister of Finance, over the next two months, and get a little money to rehabilitate that road so that, when we come for the Fourth Session, I will not have to stand here and talk about the same road. It should have been rehabilitated by then.

Sir, the point I want to make is on the aspect of repetitions.

Sir, we have talked about projects repeatedly in this House. When his Excellency the President sat there, in 2011, he made it categorically clear that the PF Government would continue with the projects that it had inherited in the various sectors of our development process. So, we expect that …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was on the point of repetitions.

Sir, in several sittings of the House, we have asked questions about on-going projects. When His Excellency the President sat there, he stated very clearly to the nation that on-going projects would be completed. I think that, as we adjourn sine die, over the next two months, it should be the responsibility of our colleagues in the Executive to come up with a clear schedule of the various projects that were inherited in 2011 in all the various sectors. They may be schools, health centres, hospitals, roads, power stations or airports. Let us have a clear schedule of where the projects are being implemented, when they are expected to be completed and how much resources are required to complete them. This was what the President said would be done in 2011.

Mr Speaker, most of us here have on-going projects in our respective constituencies. However, we should not be made to ask over and over about when the projects would be completed or what level a given project is at. His Honour the Vice-President should be able to give us a very clear schedule of the projects. That will fulfil the promise that the President made to the House.

Mr Speaker, my last point, on which I would like my colleagues in the Executive to reflect very seriously, is that there has not been any wide consultation over the intention to declare the Barotse Flood Plain a World Heritage site. Many of the traditional leaders in that part of the Western Province have not been consulted.

Sir, the declaration of that area as a World Heritage site will unnecessarily create tension when people come to learn that it is an imposition on their lives and that, if they had been consulted, they would have advised otherwise. Therefore, the Leader of Government Business in the House should bring this to the attention of his colleagues in the Executive. They should understand that what is being intended is an imposition that does not have the blessings of any traditional leader or ordinary person in the villages of the Western Province, who will be affected if the decision is imposed on them. Please, this is advice I am giving you, and I hope that you will seriously reflect on it over the next two months so that, when we come back, we will not have to make a mistake which could have been avoided. Further, please, hon. Minister of Finance, there have been statements from your colleagues in the Executive that there will not be any development in the province if people do not vote for the Patriotic Front (PF) candidate.

Rev. Lieut-Gen. Shikapwasha: Shame!
 
Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, this is unacceptable. It is the responsibility of the Executive to take development to all the constituencies. Children need development whether they are from Muchinga, Chama, …

Rev. Lieut-Gen. Shikapwasha: Keembe.

Prof. Lungwangwa: … Keembe or Lundazi. They need schools. They need to sit on desks and have text books. They also need health care, and it is your responsibility, as the Executive, to take development to every part of the country. Do not discriminate, Hon. Mukanga.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Professor Lungwangwa: When I go back to Nalikwanda, I will request the people to name a road after Hon. Yamfwa Mukanga …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: … because I think that it will be an honour to him. He is the one responsible for the road, and I hope that he will take time to handle that. We are the leaders of this country. Let us be principled. Hon. Dr Phiri, the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, drove on that road and knows the difficulties he went through in doing that. Hon. Mabumba did the same. So, I expect that my colleagues will hear this plea from the people of Nalikwanda and do the right thing over the next two months. Hon. Minister of Finance, I do not think that I should stand here again and talk about the same thing. I am sure that you will be able to tell your colleague, the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, that roads should be worked on so that the ordinary poor peasants do not have to pay K120 for a 55 km road. That is unacceptable.

Mr Speaker, I hope that the point has been driven home and that our colleagues will do the right things over the next two months before the commencement of the rains.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr E. C. Lungu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the manner in which you have let the hon. Members debate this Motion, which is innocent and devoid of controversy. I think that my Motion did not elicit most of the things that have been talked about by my colleagues, but it will suffice for me to point out that we have taken note of everything.

Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Nkombo, Hon. Shakafuswa, Hon. Dr Kaingu, Hon. Chipungu and the Professor, Hon. Lungwangwa. However, in summing up, let me say to this august House that we are a well-meaning Government and we insist on respecting the law of the land. Therefore, those hon. Colleagues who want to disrupt proceedings of the House when the President comes to address the august House should, obviously, respect the Standing Orders because the Standing Orders are their own.

Sir, the violence that has been experienced in elections in the past calls for reflection from all of us. We, as the Government, will not sit back because of the threats by members of this august House on the police in their quest to maintain law and order. We will not favour anybody in enforcing the law.

Sir, let me conclude by pointing out that efficiency in researching on Questions for Oral Answer lies on all of us, on the left and the right. Some of the questions that have been posed before the Executive have been inadequate and left no room for members of the Executive to come with meaningful answers. The follow-up questions have been worse. That said, I would like to thank you and the hon. Members who debated this Motion. Everything said has been taken on board and will be reflected upon.

I wish you all the best as you go back to your constituencies.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

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BILLS

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

THE EXCESS EXPENDITURE APPROPRIATION (2011) BILL, 2014

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2012) BILL, 2014

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First, Second and Third Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

____________

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendments:

The Excess Expenditure Appropriation (2011) Bill, 2014

The Supplementary Appropriation (2012) Bill, 2014

Third Reading, today.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Excess Expenditure Appropriation (2011) Bill, 2014

The Supplementary Appropriation (2012) Bill, 2014

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MOTION

ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE

The Minister of Defence and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr E. C. Lungu): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adjourn sine die.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House accordingly adjourned at 1847 hours sine die.