Debates- Wednesday, 8th October, 2014

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DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 8th October, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR DEPUTY SPEAKER

MEMBERS OF THE STANDING COMMITTEE ON CONSTITUTIONAL AND LEGAL AFFAIRS FROM THE NATIONAL ASSEMBLY OF NAMIBIA

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to apprise the House of the presence, in the Speaker’s Gallery, of hon. Members of the Standing Committee on Constitutional and Legal Affairs from the National Assembly of Namibia. The delegation comprises the following:

(a)    Hon. Elifas Dingara, MP;

(b)    Hon. Clara Gowases, MP; and

(c)    Mr Johan Fredrick; staff.

Hon. Members, the delegation is in the country on a study visit, and have since met the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters and Child Affairs, and the Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs of the Zambian Parliament. It has also been meeting and is still scheduled to meet various stakeholders who deal with constitutional matters, law enforcement, justice delivery, and the role of traditional leadership in the dispensation of justice, among others. The delegation will be in the country up to 12th October, 2014, having started its work on 5th October, 2014. 

I wish, on behalf of the National Assembly, to receive our distinguished guests and warmly welcome them in our midst. 

Thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

HIGH LEVEL SEGMENT OF THE 69TH SESSION OF THE UNITED NATIONS GENERAL ASSEMBLY

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Kalaba): Mr Speaker, following the point of order raised on Friday, 3rd October, 2014, by Hon. Mbewe, the Member of Parliament for Chadiza, and the subsequent instructions that you gave on what had transpired at the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA), I have come with a statement to this august House.

Mr Speaker, on 24th October, 1945, nations of the world came together to establish the United Nations (UN) as an inter-governmental organisation for the promotion of international co-operation. Forty-nine years later, the newly-independent Republic of Zambia joined the UN in order to work with other member States in pursuit of the organisation’s objectives which include, maintaining international peace and security, promoting human rights, fostering social and economic development, promoting and protecting the environment and providing humanitarian aid in cases of famine, natural disaster and armed conflict. 

Sir, from the time Zambia joined the UN, it has consistently attended the annual sessions of the General Assembly at the highest level. I am, therefore, delighted to inform this august House that the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, led the Zambian delegation to the High Level Segment of the 69th Regular Session of the UNGA which opened on 16th September, 2014, under the theme, “Delivering Own and Implementing a Transformative Post-2015 Development Agenda”. 

Sir, the President’s delegation arrived in New York on 20th September, 2014, and departed on 28th September, 2014. It comprised the following members:

(a)    Hon. Kalaba, MP, Minister of Foreign Affairs;

(b)    The First Lady;

(c)    Hon. Mwansa Kapeya, MP, Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection;

(d)    Hon. Robert Sichinga, MP, Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry;

(e)    Hon. Emerine Kabanshi, MP, Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health; and

(f)    Hon. Yamfwa Mukanga, MP, Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. 

Mr Speaker, Zambia’s first engagement was on 21st September, 2014, in the form of an official luncheon which was sponsored by the United Nations Fund for Population Activities (UNFPA) and co-hosted by Zambia. This event was aimed at highlighting the importance of the questions of Sexual and Reproductive Health, and the Reproductive Rights to the African Group. 

Sir, on 22nd September, 2014, the delegation participated in the Special Session of the General Assembly which was a follow up to the Programme-of-Action of the 1994 International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD). Zambia’s participation in the Special Session was led by the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. 

Sir, it may be noted that Zambia is a member of the Commission on Population and Development and has been endorsed by the African Group to be the Vice-Chair of the 48th Session of the ICPD to be held in 2015. 

Mr Speaker, the International Conference on the Great-Lakes Region convened its 4th High Level Meeting of the Region on Oversight Mechanism of the Peace, Security and Co-operation Framework for the Democratic Republic of Congo on 22nd September, 2014, on the margins of the UNGA in New York. The main purpose of this meeting was to review political and security developments in the Great Lakes Region, receive the first progress report on the implementation of the Regional Plan of Action and adopt the report. The meeting also adopted the Draft Communiqué that was prepared by the Technical Support Committee of the Oversight Mechanism. 

Mr Speaker, the 2014 Climate Summit was held on 23rd September, 2014. This was solution-focused and not negotiating summit, convened by the UN Secretary-General aimed at complmmenting the process of the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC). The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, Hon. Mwansa Kapeya, led Zambia’s participation in this meeting. 

Sir, I wish to highlight that Zambia and Canada co-hosted an event on Ending Child Early and Forced Marriages. As you may know, during the previous UNGA, the two countries introduced a resolution aimed at spurring action to redress this problem. 

Mr Speaker, the House will note that Zambia is currently the Chair of the Group of the Land Locked Developing Countries (LLDCs). It assumed this position to oversee the deliberation of the programme-of-action for the thirty-two member States of the grouping, as agreed in Almaty, Kazakhstan in 2003. 

Sir, as Minister of Foreign Affairs, I participated in the LLDCs Ministerial Side Event in my capacity as Chairperson of the LLDC Foreign Ministers, while the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication headed the Zambian delegation in the Ministerial Side Event.

Mr Speaker, I further wish to inform the House that on 27th September, 2014, I was deeply honoured when I was delegated to deliver the Presidential Statement during the general debate of the High Level Segment of the Assembly on behalf of His Excellency the President.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Kalaba: Sir, the statement conveyed Zambia’s concern over the growing threat of the Ebola epidemic which is currently confined to three West African countries. However, Zambia’s concern is that unless efforts are undertaken to contain the disease now, the exponential effect of its spread may be difficult to contain later.

Zambia’s statement also raised the security concerns arising from the terrorist activities in Nigeria, as well as the effects of the war in the Ukraine. 

Sir, as we are approaching the deadline for the millennium development goals (MDGs) and embarking on the Sustainable Development and Post-2015 Development Agenda, Zambia declared its keenness to ensure the widest possible support for the new development agenda.

Mr Speaker, at bilateral level, Zambia had a meeting with the United States Assistant Secretary for Africa, Ms Linda Thomas Greenfield. The meeting covered issues of mutual interest, ranging from international peace and security, to strengthening bilateral ties between Zambia and the United States of America (USA).

Sir, as the House may be aware, the First Lady has been involved in a number of programmes aimed at addressing various social challenges and, particularly, reducing the gender divide. As part of the UNGA Programme, she was inaugurated as the e-health Ambassador of the International Telecommunication Union (ITU).

Mr Speaker, the delegation was also engaged in various forms of conference diplomacy which included reaching out, on the sidelines, to the other nations represented at the UNGA. In addition, the Zambian delegation held various bilateral meetings relating to its portfolios. I wish to state that the delegation contributed significantly to restoring Zambia’s standing as a serious and influential partner in international relations. It is this representation that amplified the country’s participation in the remaining session of the UNGA.

Mr Speaker, against the backdrop of the commemoration of our Golden Jubilee Independence this year, the UNGA also provided an opportunity for Zambia to convey its appreciation to all those that have supported the nation along the way. In this vein, allow me, as I conclude my statement, to call upon the nation at large to reflect deeply on the meaning of Zambia’s Golden Jubilee Independence Celebrations. The unity, peace and tranquility we enjoy, as a nation, today, is not a hoax, …

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: … and should, therefore, not be taken for granted. Zambia is a haven of peace …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: … because we, the hon. Members and our founding fathers, have dedicated ourselves to work for the preservation of peace and unity.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, we cannot, therefore, at the threshold of our 50th Independence Anniversary as an independent and sovereign nation, allow ourselves to lapse into a situation where trivial matters bring about big differences, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Chabwino ayende.

Mr Kalaba: … sound bites become serious issues, and the truth is buried under the avalanche of politics.

Mr Speaker, while our interests, as political parties, might be singular, we must always remember that our destiny is shared. There is a need for us to depart from habits that have, for so long, been feeding into the status quo. This is no longer desirable. We must agree that even in diversity, there is unity. 

Finally, Mr Speaker, allow me to pay tribute to His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, for being a statesman of his calibre …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Kalaba: … who has always sought to bridge the divide that has existed in our political dispensation. I salute the President for being a pillar in the furtherance of Zambia’s diplomacy and a good custodian …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: … of Zambia’s interests within and beyond the borders of our country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs. 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that statement. 

Sir, the hon. Minister mentioned Zambia’s participation in the topic for landlocked countries. Can the hon. Minister shade more light on, at least, one issue of interest to me, as an economist, that relates to landlocked countries. What was discussed and agreed on that issue?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, currently, Zambia is chairing the landlocked developing countries group, comprising thirty-two Member States. All the land-locked countries have been grappling with a lot of issues, ranging from a lack of access to the sea to seeing how best we can coordinate ourselves as landlocked developing countries. We have now begun to realise that, as landlocked developing countries, we can also be land-linked. Therefore, we have come together, as a grouping, to fight this issue of being landlocked. As the saying goes, “divided we fall, united we stand.”

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, let me join the hon. Member for Liuwa in thanking the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs for delivering this statement which was long overdue. Let me also take this opportunity to thank the hon. Minister for representing the country at the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) when His Excellency the President asked him to fill his big shoes by delivering Zambia’s statement. 

Sir, this has been a source of worry, coupled with the alarming news that went round the country that we had lost our Head of State.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister shade more light on this issue because we were informed that someone close to the Head of State may have raised the alarm which resulted in the New York Police Department rushing to his room to give him treatment. Can the hon. Minister clarify that matter in order to allay the anxieties that have gripped the country regarding the health of the Head of State.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, when this issue came up, His Honour the Vice-President spoke about it here, in Parliament, …

The Vice-President: Vice-President’s Question Time.

Mr Kalaba: … during His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. I was directed by the President in New York to clarify the matter because some sections of the media had reported that President Sata was having some health challenges and that somebody had called 911 as a result. 

Sir, I would like to inform the House that, that was misinformation. Nothing of the sort happened during our stay in New York. On the morning when the incident is alleged to have taken place, President Sata, himself, jokingly told me that he had been reported to have died on several occasions in Zambia. There were such reports in 2001, 2006, 2008 and 2011. Therefore, it was not new to hear that something of the sort had happened. So, I would like to assure the House that nothing like that happened and that there is no need for panic.  

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the statement. He is a very good hon. Minister, and I will need him in my ‘kingdom’ in 2016.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Mbewe: Sir, I would like to find out how many people were in the delegation and how much money was spent on its stay in the United States of America (USA).

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, the Minister of Foreign Affairs is the custodian of Zambia’s interest beyond the borders of this great country. My job, as Minister Foreign Affairs, is not to know who is in the President’s delegation, how big the delegation is or how much was spent on it. That is the preserve of Cabinet Office.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: That is how the Government operates. Somebody has already asked His Honour the Vice-President to clarify how many people the President travelled with. So, I am sure His Honour the Vice-President will come back to this House to answer that question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, I thought that you indicated, in your statement, the composition of the President’s delegation. Therefore, I see no harm in your repeating what you had said earlier.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I said that the President was accompanied by the First Lady; the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Hon. Yamfwa Mukanga; the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, Hon. Emerine Kabanshi, the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, Hon. Bob Sichinga; the able Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, Hon. Mwansa Kapeya and myself, as Minister of Foreign Affairs.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs for his statement. He said that he was delegated to issue a statement to the Plenary Session. Having travelled all the way to New York, was there any reason for the President to delegate the hon. Minister to issue a statement? If so, what is that reason? Why did he not delegate the hon. Minister while he was here, instead of doing that when he was in the United States of America (USA)?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, the prerogative to delegate functions lies with the President. It is not for me to punch holes in his prerogative to delegate.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs for the statement. However, I would like to find out why there was a diplomatic embarrassment when Zambia was called to the podium. In particular, why did the Ministry of Foreign Affairs not alert the organisers of the event in time about the absence of the Zambian Head of State?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Chavuma for that question. Let me clarify this matter. The embarrassment was not on the part of Zambia rather, it was on the part of those who should have adjusted the list because Zambia had made that presentation early enough. When the organisers were making the schedule of presentations, they had already given us another slot in the programme. So, the embarrassment was not on our part, but that of the organisers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether it has now become Government policy that if one is heading a delegation to an international meeting, he/she can decide not to attend the meeting and ask somebody else to attend on his/her behalf, and that should that happen, nothing is going to be done to that head of the delegation.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Jack Mwiimbu for that question. As I said earlier, the prerogative to delegate is for His Excellency the President. He will delegate as and when he deems it fit.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, according to the ministerial statement, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs was delegated to deliver the speech on behalf of the Head of State. I would like to find out what the thrust of the message was that was delivered to the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA) on behalf of Zambia.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I indicated the issues that were discussed in the statement that the President delivered to the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA). I said that the President talked about the security concerns in Nigeria as well as the crisis in the Ukraine. The President also talked about the Ebola outbreak in three West African countries. The statement included the issue of Africa not being on the United Nations (UN) Security Council, as Zambia is a member of the Committee of Ten on the Reforms of the Security Council. So, the President discussed diverse issues in the statement. The statement can easily be accessed on the UN website, webtv.un.org.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, what is the Government doing about the New York Times that reported that a calamity had befallen our Head of State? What is your Government doing to punish that wrong source of information?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola who has given me a chance to explain that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, through our Permanent Representative in New York, is pursuing this matter. A certain lady at some police station issued that statement. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has since written to our colleagues at the American Foreign Service Department to find out the source of this information.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I listened attentively to the statement, but did not hear about the resolutions that were passed at the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA). 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Muchima: Could the hon. Minister be kind enough to go through the resolutions of that session.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, when countries congregate at the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA), they do not pass resolutions rather, member States are given an opportunity to elucidate most of the issues of concern in the world as well as those relating to the UNGA. Instead, the General Assembly gives a chance to member States to bring out issues of concern in the world. In short, no resolution was passed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister referred to peace and unity under the motto, “One Zambia, One Nation”. From the names of the people who accompanied the President, one can tell that all of them are Bemba speaking. So, what language were they speaking when they were in New York?

Laughter

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, this is a dignified House where serious issues are deliberated. So, when one gets a chance to debate, he/she should use it wisely. The composition of the delegation was by portfolio. For instance, Hon. Inonge Wina should have been on the delegation, but the President said that he wanted those that had specific tasks to perform at the General Assembly.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister is responding.

Mr Kalaba: Sir, Hon. Prof. Nkandu Luo should have been on the delegation, but the President did not allow her to travel. I do not remember when Hon. Sichinga became Bemba. So, let us look at these issues from a work perspective rather than that of tribe. Fifty years after Independence, we cannot afford, …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister is answering. He has not asked you to assist him.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, yes, I am Ushi, and not Bemba. Fifty years after Independence, this country must know, as I put it in my statement, that we cannot do some things. In my language, there is a saying that goes, ba penafye, ku mukanda tabaya.

Interruptions

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, this means that there are things that we can do, as a people or as a country, but we should not cross a certain line. So, we are all Zambians and everything we do is perpetuated by the interests of Zambians.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that statement. However, there is one issue that he did not mention. Usually, during the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA), various countries append signatures or ratify certain protocols. Did we sign or ratify any protocol? If so, what was it about?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, we did not sign any protocol.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister has just stated, Hon. Prof. Nkandu Luo and Hon. Inonge Wina were left out of the delegation to the conference. The Zambian people asked why Hon. Inonge Wina, in particular, was left out of that delegation.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I do not think I should let the hon. Minister answer that question.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, my question is a rider to Hon. Dr Situmbeko Musokotwane’s question. As the Chairperson of the Committee for Landlocked Developing Countries (LLDC) Foreign Affairs Ministers, what is the hon. Minister doing about Zambia’s air transport? At the moment, one has to first go to Dubai from Zambia to get to Egypt.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Well, I think that question, too, does not seem to have relevance to the issues under discussion but, if the hon. Minister thinks he can take it on, he is free to do so.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, I would like that question to be adequately addressed by the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: That is right.

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what that delegation was. I would also like him to confirm …

Mr Muchima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I know that Parliament has Committees that sit to deliberate on certain issues and they bring their resolutions to the main House. The same applies to the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA), whereby side meetings are attended by various hon. Ministers. Is the hon. Minister in order to tell us that the meetings did not resolve anything at all? Hon. Members and the Zambian people are entitled to know what was discussed, rather than the hon. Minister telling us that no resolutions were passed at all. I need your serious ruling on this matter.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The hon.  Member for Solwezi West may continue. 

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm whether the delegation included six doctors, that is, two foreign doctors and four Zambians.

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, I said earlier on that the job of the Minister of Foreign Affairs is not to go in the intricate details. My job is to ensure that Zambia’s Foreign Policy, good image and advantages across the borders of this country are well safeguarded. So, I am unable to comment on what the hon. Member is trying to insinuate. However, I can only state that it is not true.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. 

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, my question was without malice. The hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs was very clear when he said, in his statement, that he was the Chairperson of the Committee for Landlocked Developing Countries (LLDC) Foreign Affairs Ministers. The only sure transport in and out of landlocked countries is by air. I do not know what the Committee for LLDC Foreign Affairs Ministers discussed at the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA). However, is he in order to refer me to the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when he is the Chairperson of this group that is responsible for landlocked countries at UNGA?

Mr Deputy Speaker: I remember that I decided to ask him not to delve into the details of that question because I have served at the United Nations (UN) and I know that in certain committees, issues of transport may not necessarily be discussed all the time. I think it is the same for the Committee for Landlocked Countries Foreign Affairs Ministers. That is why I thought it was not appropriate, at that time, for him to answer that question. So, we shall leave it at that.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, in 2011, when the Patriotic Front (PF) came into power, we talked about the violence that was waged against the Opposition, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and United Party for National Development (UPND) in particular. The violence is still there. However, this time around, it is the PF members that have turned against each other. There is violence within the party. The hon. Minister, in his statement, has talked about the need for peace and safety at length. What exactly was he talking about or is he just paying lip service to this matter?

Mr Kalaba: Mr Speaker, the call for peace was meant to go across the political divide. It was meant for all of us in Zambia, regardless of our political affiliation, as we celebrate the 50th Independence Anniversary. We owe it to one another to safeguard our peace and unity. Therefore, when your brother is mourning, you cannot have a birthday party, especially in this dispensation we are in. So, whether the violence is happening in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), the United Party for National Development (UPND) or my great political party, the Patriotic Front (PF), …

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: … the issue is that peace is paramount. It must be a prerequisite for modern democracy.

I thank you, Sir.

¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬______________ 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

RURAL ROADS

138. Mr Mumba (Mambilima) (on behalf of Ms Kansembe) (Lukashya) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication whether the Government had any plans to construct and rehabilitate rural roads and, if so, what the plans were.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mwimba H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the Government through the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, is responsible for the construction, rehabilitation and maintenance of the entire road network in the country. This is achieved via its agencies and departments. In this vein, each year, the Government sets aside funds for the construction, rehabilitation and …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Can I have order on my right, please. 

I want to listen to the hon. Minister’s answer.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: … maintenance of feeder and rural roads throughout the country. This is achieved through the respective budgetary allocations for the Road Development Agency (RDA), Ministry of Local Government and Housing and Rural Roads Unit (RRU).

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister indicate in which district in the Northern Province the ministry is working on the rural roads.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, we are doing work in almost all the districts, but there is a schedule to be followed.

Mr Chipungu: Which programme?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: If the team doing the road works has not yet reached Mbala District, then, the hon. Member should just wait patiently. This is because there are serious road works going on in Mporokoso.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the Government is executing road works through the relevant Government institutions. Are the works being carried out just on paper or they are actually going on? I ask because in Kalabo, for instance, …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Aha! You have asked …

Mr Miyutu: Sir, this is in relation to … 

Mr Deputy Speaker: … your question.

Mr Miyutu: I have not finished.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: I will not allow you to continue because you want to explain why you have asked the question.

Mr Miyutu: I want to relate the question to his answer.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No, let the hon. Minister answer the question.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the Government’s programmes always begin with planning and, when planning, the plans have to be put on paper. I do not know what the hon. Member is trying to say. Otherwise, we have to plan and, after planning, we start the implementation. So, when the hon. Member asks whether the plans are just on paper, it is a shame to him because the Government is …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Hon. Minister, it cannot be a shame to the hon. Member.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Let us be civil in our debate.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I was trying to say that everyone has seen what this Government is doing. 

Interruptions

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: You do not even have to ask.

Mr Livune: What are you doing?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Just wait. 

Sir, everyone is able to see what we are doing. Even a few kilometres from where we are gathered, here, you can see a lot of road works going on. For somebody to ask whether or not the plans are just on paper, it becomes difficult for me to respond. 

Mr Speaker, somebody said that there is nothing happening in Monze District. I was in Monze last weekend, and township roads were being worked on. There are serious works going on, on the Monze/Niko Road. So, when hon. Members come to this House and pretend as if there is nothing happening out there, we begin to wonder whether our colleagues visit their constituencies. There is a lot of work going on.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr P. Phiri (Mkaika): Mr Speaker, according to the answer given by the hon. Minister, the Government is working on roads all over the districts. In Mkaika, there are no road works going on despite the promises you made.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr P. Phiri: May I find out from the hon. Minister when the road works will begin in Mkaika.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Under normal circumstances, this is where we, Presiding Officers, advise that it is better to stick to the question ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Deputy Speaker: … because, when you bring in other issues, it becomes difficult for us to say the question is not related to the main Question. So, please, let us learn to answer the questions that are asked only.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the question, itself, was very clear and probably this is why the hon. Members are trying to find out what is happening here and there. The truth of the matter is that we depend on the equipment for the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) which we all know has presence in every province. We may take long to move to the hon. Member’s constituency, but that does not mean that we are not aware that there are some roads that need to be worked on. We all know that earth-moving equipment is very expensive. At the moment, it is kept at the Provincial Administration and is moved from one district to another. With time, the equipment will be moved to Mkaika Constituency.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I want to emphasise that we should learn to stick to the questions. When we bring in other issues, then, we will be talking about this and that. The question was straight forward but, hon. Minister, you brought in other issues. So, let us stick to the questions.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, Dundumwezi is in a rural area. Hon. Minister, could you kindly say either yes or no. Since there is nothing happening in my district, can I also wait patiently?

Laughter
 
Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the answer is a very big yes.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, this question relates to rural roads. May I find out from my good brother, the hon. Minister, when the rural roads in Kaoma Central will be worked on?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I cannot tell when the roads will be worked on, but we can provide the plan for the hon. Member so that he is able to know when.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I am sure you will bear me witness on how many times my colleague, Hon. Mutelo, and I have asked questions specifically on the Katunda/Lukulu/Watopa Road.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: This question could not have come at a better time than this. Can the hon. Minister indicate to me whether I need another three years before I can be told when this road will be worked on.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the road that the hon. Member is talking about is earmarked for upgrading. We have, in fact, provided the answer to the hon. Member’s question. However, we can still provide the Annual Work Plan to hon. Members so that they know when the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) will move into their respective constituencies.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, as an hon. Member of Parliament for a rural constituency, I have issues with the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) at provincial level. I have advocated for the decentralisation of the RRU to the districts where its services are needed and its impact felt. What is the problem with decentralising the RRU to district level so that we can work on our roads when the rainy season is over?

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, we have been looking for the best way to make the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) more effective by next year than it is currently. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwale: Boko Haram!

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, are the hon. Members of Parliament from the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) in order to be so active today when they have not been active in Parliament all along?

Mr Muchima: Question!

Mr Mwila: Is it because they have seen their president up there?

Laughter

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Chipili has now diverted our attention. We were not aware that the President for the Multi-party Democracy (MMD) is here.

The hon. Member for Chipangali may continue.

Hon. MMD Member: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: No more points of order. The hon. Member for Chipangali may continue.

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what criteria are used to select rural roads to be worked on from amongst the many bad roads. Are by-elections amongst the criteria?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we have always stated that the local authority should be involved in identifying the road to be worked on. Once the local authority submits the name of the road, we include it in the Annual Work Plan. That is the criteria used for selection. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Deputy Speaker: The last question will come from the hon. Member for Ikeleng’i who has been dying to take the Floor for a long time.

Mr Mushanga: President naisa mukuba sopa.

Laughter

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mushanga: The president is watching you.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) is very effective and efficient. I would like to hear from him how the equipment will be transported to the rural areas, especially Jimbe, which we have been talking about for three years. Not even an inch of a road has been graded, when this Government is so broke that it is failing to meet salary obligations. 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, it is important that when our leaders visit us, we show that we are able to do something.

Laughter

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we should appreciate that this Government has been doing everything possible to ensure that it provides services to the people of Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Everybody out there is able to see this.

Mr Muchima: Where? My district is not seeing anything.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mukanga: Whether or not you decide to see, works are carried out and the people of Jimbe will receive the services.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

ROAD-HUMP STANDARD

139. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication what the normal standard of humps was on the following types of roads:

(a)    highway;

(b)    trunk;

(c)    district;

(d)    feeder; and

(e)    township.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, this is a very good question by the hon. Member.

The normal standard for speed-calming measures on highway, trunk and district roads are rumble strips which run over the whole width of the road at a particular section and have a height of 13 mm and width of 500 mm per strip. The maximum permitted height for rumble strips is 20 mm.

The normal standard height for humps on township and feeder roads is 150 mm and 80 mm respectively, and a width of 3,000 mm.

Sir, the ministry is working on harmonising all speed-calming measures in conformity with set standards. 

In addition, to speed humps and rumble strips, other traffic-calming measures such as roundabouts, traffic signals and appropriate signage are in use to ensure safe travel speeds on roads.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, since it is now clear that there are specifications relating to speed-calming measures, I would like to find out why there is a variety of humps on our roads. Does the ministry ensure that the set standards are met as the humps are put up?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we have reviewed the standards and have noticed that there was a challenge with regard to speed-calming measures in the past. However, this is going to be rectified in future designs.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, allow me to recognise the presence of my president, ...

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Dr Kaingu: … who looks very well and healthy.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: You see, we have set rules here. In fact, I took the point of order by the hon. Member for Chipili in jest because our rules are that we should not refer to people in the galleries except when introducing those in the Speaker’s Gallery. So, unless you have something different, hon. Member for Mwandi, veer off such debate.

Dr Kaingu: Hon. Minister, what criterion …

Hon. Government Member: Criterion?

Dr Kaingu: Yes, it is criterion, in case you do not understand English. What criterion do you use to select roads for the erection of speed humps, considering that the whole of the Livingstone/ Sesheke Road does not have a single hump?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we follow the set standards, including the speed limit for the road and population for that location to determine which type of hump should be put up.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, speed humps are a hazard to motorists. As such, there are supposed to be road signs to alert motorists about the speed humps ahead to avoid accidents. May I find out why more often than not, the speed humps are not marked out, and hence, their becoming a danger to motorists?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, usually, when speed humps are put up, they are marked out. However, the problem we have had is that of the quality of paint used to mark them out. In view of this, we are looking at improving the signage. 

Sir, we are also going to ensure that the paint that is used to mark out the humps is of a better quality. 

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Namulambe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I ruled that I would not take any more points of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: It is procedural.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, by his own admission, the hon. Minister said that adhering to the set standards has been a challenge to the ministry. Now that he has admitted that standards have not been followed, is the ministry going to do something about the speed humps on the Mongu/Limulunga Road? There are about fifteen to twenty humps on a stretch of 16 km. Is he going to revisit that issue?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Namulambe is trying to defeat my ruling by raising a point of procedure.

Hon. Government Member: Tafwele, ulya.

Laughter 

Dr Kaingu: Is it a matter of life and death?

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

I will grant you your point of procedure.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

However, before I do so, it has been brought to my attention, and I agree with that, that the hon. Member of Parliament for Senanga is improperly dressed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Igwe!

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member for Senanga may leave the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: Igwe!

Mr Mufalali left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

You have your point of procedure, Hon. Namulambe.

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Oh! It has been overtaken by events. I did not know that your point of procedure was in relation to that ruling.

The hon. Member for Luena was on the Floor. You may continue, hon. Member.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I have already asked my question.

 Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister may answer the question.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we need to go back and attend to all the speed humps that are not painted. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, in rural communities, villagers put up speed humps because theyre are nonexistent, especially on feeder roads. What message does the hon. Minister have for such communities, especially that he has talked about standards? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the question that the hon. Member has posed. What is important to realise is that road contractors are appointed by the Road Development Agency (RDA) from our ministry. Therefore, when any contractor is working on a road, he/she should get permission from the relevant authority. If the communities are trying to put up any speed humps, they should contact the councils so that they know the standards to follow. If all of us did that and reported such happenings, we would have been able to meet the standards that we have set.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, the road from Livingstone to Sesheke passes through my constituency. Lives have been lost at Sikaunzwe and many other spots. Can the hon. Minister be explicit on the procedure that we need to undertake to put up speed humps in those areas?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the nearest point of contact for people in these communities are the local councils. If they start from there, they will be able to put up the speed humps.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, rumble strips do not seem to have any effect on the speed of big trucks and vehicles going at a high speed. What does the ministry think should be done in order to guarantee the safety of the people? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we shall ask our engineers to review this and see what road- calming measures are more effective.

I thank you, Sir.

BOREHOLES FOR MKAIKA

140. Mr P. Phiri asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    how many boreholes were earmarked for sinking in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency in 2014;

(b)    in which areas the boreholes would be sunk; and 

(c)    what the total cost of the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kufuna): Mr Speaker, five  boreholes have been earmarked for sinking in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency in 2014. Katete District Council has also planned to sink twenty boreholes in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). This brings the total number of boreholes earmarked for 2014 to twenty-five. The ministry, with the support of the United Nations Children’s Emergency Fund (UNICEF), has drilled forty-two boreholes in Katete District. Thirteen of the forty-two boreholes have been drilled in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency and are awaiting fitment of hand pumps.

Mr Speaker, the council will decide where the boreholes will be sunk.

Mr Speaker, the total cost of the project for the twenty-five boreholes is K892,500.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr P. Phiri: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the forty-two boreholes which he has mentioned are not equipped to date despite them having been drilled in 2012?

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, I am aware about the boreholes which are not yet equipped. This is because the contract was terminated by the council due to delays in implementing the project. However, the contract has been awarded to another contractor.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr W. Banda: Mr Speaker, we appreciate the number of boreholes that have been drilled in Mkaika. However, there is a challenge, especially in relation to implementation. Hon. Minister, what is your Government doing to ensure that such programmes are urgently implemented?

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, the projects are implemented and supervised by the councils.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the projects are implemented and supervised by the councils which report to his ministry. Is he passing the buck to the council, thereby denying the responsibility of ensuring that the projects are implemented according to plan?

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, I mentioned the councils because the boreholes are drilled in council areas. As a ministry, we monitor the councils to see what is happening. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, recently, we received communication from the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, indicating that if we wanted boreholes to be sunk …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order, on my right!

Mr Mtolo: … in our constituencies, we needed to pay some money to the ministry through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I would like to know whether the twenty-five boreholes that the hon. Minister talked about will be affected by this. Further, may I know when the contractor will be on site.  

Mr Kufuna: Mr Speaker, the decision to drill twenty-five boreholes using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) was made by the council in Katete. So, when the money is disbursed to the councils, they will do as planned. 

I thank you, Sir. 

KASHITA SECONDARY SCHOOL IN NCHELENGE

141. Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when the construction of boarding facilities at Kashita Secondary School in Nchelenge Parliamentary Constituency would commence; and

(b)    when the construction of Lake Mweru View Secondary School at Kashita would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that boarding facilities at Kashita Secondary School in Nchelenge District will be constructed when funds are made available. 

Mr Speaker, Lake Mweru View Secondary School is one of the proposed sites for the construction of a new boarding school in Nchelenge District in Luapula Province. The construction will, however, only commence when the on-going construction of secondary school projects has been completed. 

I thank you, Sir. 

SHOPPING MALLS IN KABWE

142. Mr Mushanga (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry what measures had been taken to encourage investors to construct shopping malls in Kabwe. 

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Sichinga): Mr Speaker, the Government has continued to promote investment in the construction of shopping malls in Zambia, considering the immediate impact that such developments have on both direct and indirect job creation. 

The House may wish to note that the construction of shopping malls is dependent on the projected volume of business as evaluated by large and medium-size retailers, and developers with reference to locations which make the investment of such infrastructure viable for the developer. Considering the growing economic activities in Kabwe, the Government, through the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), has engaged a private developer from South Africa …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Sichinga: … who is already …

Interruptions

Mr Deputy Speaker: Hon. Minister, pause for a moment. 

Hon. Members, both on my left and right, it appears that you have decided not to listen. We cannot proceed like this. If you want to consult, you are invited to go outside where you shall not make noise. Otherwise, I will stop the proceedings. Please, let us listen to the hon. Minister.

Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr Sichinga:  I thank you, Sir. 

The House may wish to note that the construction of shopping malls is dependent on the projected volume of business which is created by large and medium-size retailers in a particular location and, especially, whether the developer thinks the investment in infrastructure is viable by. Considering the growing level of economic activities in Kabwe, the Government, through the ZDA, has engaged a private developer from South Africa, who is already constructing similar malls, on the possibility of constructing a shopping mall in Kabwe. 

Sir, negotiations are currently ongoing, particularly with regard to the acquisition of suitable land for the project. The ZDA has since engaged Kabwe Municipal Council, through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, to assist with land allocation on which the shopping mall could possibly be constructed, should the developer confirm his interest in developing the asset. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that answer. 

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: When I make decisions, I do not reverse them. The decision I made regarding points of order was final. 

Hon. Member for Bwacha, you may continue. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the feedback. 

Hon. Minister, according to your ministry, is Kabwe a viable location for the construction of a shopping mall? 

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I am unable to give a response in terms of viability. As I indicated earlier, at the moment, there are on-going discussions with the developer. The viability aspect will obviously take into account a number of issues such as the population in localities. In view of this, I am not able to give a response to the question raised by Hon. Mushanga at the moment because the details of the population in the area where this mall will be located are still under discussion. I hope that, at a later stage, once the negotiations have been completed, I can come back and give an answer as to how viable or unviable this proposition is. 

However, Sir, Kabwe is well located as it is on the main road between Lusaka and the Copperbelt. Nonetheless, access to shopping malls will depend on the economic activities of the town. Hon. Mushanga may have to wait a little bit longer for this negotiation to be completed before I can give him further information. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if there …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Hamudulu: … is any harm in mentioning the private developer from South Africa with whom the Government is having discussions. 

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I am unable to give this information at the moment. As I said, we are in discussion, and I think that it would be imprudent of me to give this information at this point because we have not yet concretised anything by signing a Memorandum of Understanding (MoU). 

Sir, I will come back to the House at a later stage on this question, if necessary. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister referred to …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of procedure, Sir. 

Interruptions

Mr Simbao: … economic activities …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order! 

Can I request the hon. Member for Chadiza to leave the Chamber. 

Mr Mbewe left the Assembly Chamber. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, what is driving the economic activities in Kabwe when Mulungushi Textiles and Kabwe Industrial Fabrics Company (KIFCO) are closed, the Zambia Railways Ltd has moved its headquarters to Lusaka, and the drug companies are all going down? What is driving the economic activities that he is talking about in Kabwe?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, I thought that my response was very clear. I said that there is a need to undertake a study of the kind of population that would access theses facilities and I said that it depends on the economic activities. That is the basis on which this evaluation will be undertaken. I think I have responded to that question already.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, in his response, indicated that there are discussions with a prospective developer from South Africa. Our experience has been that when the South Africans develop shopping malls, they bring South African companies into the country that merchandise South African products. Is the hon. Minister considering coming up with an initiative to encourage local entrepreneurs to construct shopping malls so that Zambian products can be showcased?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mafinga is absolutely right. This is a matter that is receiving active consideration from our ministry because not only do the South African investors sell South African commodities, but also the local business people cannot afford the rentals in such locations.

Sir, I would like to inform this House that, at the moment, we are actively discussing with some of the investors in this country, specifically pension houses, which should invest in the construction of shopping malls. This is receiving active consideration.

Mr Speaker, the issue of the products to be sold is also receiving serious consideration. I was unable to come to the House yesterday because we were launching industrial clusters in respective districts. Yesterday, we were in Petauke. We have just come from Isoka and we visited Mafinga the previous week. The next visit is going to be in Luapula. Thereafter, we will go to the Copperbelt, then the North-Western Province and, finally, we shall go to the Southern Province in order to develop capacity to produce products of quality to fill our shops. It is an area that is receiving active consideration, especially because we have had difficulties marketing quality Zambian products in South Africa. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just indicated that as far as the issue of shopping malls in Kabwe is concerned, the demographics will need to be understood. Is that an implied admission that the ministry is so incompetent that it is unable to interpret the demographic and population figures that are with the Central Statistical Office (CSO)?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, statistics are statistics and can be applied to any given situation including to an investor who wants to invest in a shopping mall depending on the level that they are directing themselves to. The question of incompetence that he hon. Member for Sinda has raised does not arise, as he knows that I can read statistics better than him. 

Laughter 

Mr Sichinga: Every time a proposal to develop is raised, it requires to be specifically studied. This is exactly what is being done and the reason I have not been able to give more details than that. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr L. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: There will be no points of order.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just indicated that the ministry is trying to build capacity in the local population to produce quality products that can be put on the shelves of the malls that we build. Does the Government have any plans to impose tariffs on imported products in order to promote local products, considering that the Zambian consumer can choose between imported and local products?

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, an important issue that we are considering at the moment is how we relate to the tariff levels between countries. Under the World Trade Organisation (WTO) rules, once you have agreed on a tariff level, you cannot change it unless you can show that the other parties are dumping or doing something that is outside the agreement. 

Sir, the second issue I would like to mention is that we have got several agreements within the region. There is the Southern African Development Community (SADC) and Common Market for Eastern and Southern African (COMESA) protocols. Under these protocols, you scale down in relation to the other countries. Where you have zero tariffs, as is the case with South Africa which was achieved in February, 2012, it becomes difficult to change the tariff level unless you engage in negotiations with the other parties. That is exactly what we are doing at the moment.

I thank you, Sir. 

_________

MOTIONS

REPOSSESSION OF ILLEGALLY ACQUIRED LAND

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move a Motion urging the Government to repossess illegally acquired land. 

Mr Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion. 

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, let me begin by expressing my profound appreciation for allowing me to move the Private Members’ Motion on the Government repossessing all illegally acquired land.

Sir, I would like to adopt Hon. Masebo’s latter speech yesterday as well as that for Hon. Shakafuswa in relation to land. There is no more land in Rufunsa just like in provinces such as the Southern Province. We have had an influx of investors coming to Rufunsa to obtain huge tracts of lands corruptly. I want to urge whoever wants to obtain land, be it foreign investors or locals, to follow the laid-down procedures. 

Mr Speaker, it is also important that the so-called investors are regulated when they are being given title deeds at the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. They should no longer be given ninety-nine year leases for the land. It must be reduced to ten years and below.

Sir, in moving this Motion, I wish to state the importance of land in this country. For Africans and Zambians in particular, land remains the single most important asset. Even after many decades of political Independence, the majority of Zambian households largely depend on land-based activities such as agricultural-related activities for their livelihood. About 8 per cent of the rural population makes a living from subsistence farming on customary land. 

Mr Speaker, ministries such as Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, Mines, Energy and Water Development, and Agriculture and Livestock are anchored on land. However, Zambia faces an apparent paradox of having roughly a quarter of its rural population landless. The perception is that no additional land is available to people despite the existence of substantially under-utilised arable land. It can, therefore, be said that inadequate access to land is one of the major causes of rural poverty in this country. It is also noted that since the enactment of the 1995 Land Act, which allowed for the conversion of customary land into State land with private leasehold interests, at least, 10 per cent of land held under customary tenure has been privatised through conversion into leaseholds. 

Mr Speaker, in some cases, the leaseholds have resulted in the much-needed investment in rural areas and have created opportunities for local employment, contract farming, secondary businesses, development of infrastructure, social services and transfer of knowhow. However, the conversion of customary land into large leaseholds has, in other cases, eroded local rights to common-pool resources and has also encroached on communal land, causing local people to lose access to water sources, grazing land and forest products.

Mr Mwamba entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, Zambia has a total area of 752,618 km², of which 9,220 km² is covered by water. Most of this land is uncultivated even though it has a lot of potential in agriculture. Most of the unused land in our country is found in rural areas where the only source of employment is subsistence farming. It is obvious that the rural people depend on land for their survival. In spite of the foregoing, it is sad to note that this group of people is the most affected when it comes to land alienation and ownership. It is either easily dispersed to pave way for investment or it simply becomes a victim of the fluctuating land policies of the Government. The question is: what happens when this land is substantially reduced or totally withdrawn from the poor Zambians by the so-called investors? Clearly, it results into abject poverty. 

Sir, the much-pronounced investment, which is used as the reason for getting huge pieces of land, is supposed to bring development to the rural communities. However, this will not be felt if half of the population is dispossessed of their land. Situations where people keep losing their land are becoming more rampant with each passing day. We hear stories of how the poor people lose their land, and yet little is done about it. This is a very serious matter. This issue is further compounded by the lack of coherent land administration policies that have been implemented during the last years.

Mr Speaker, we are all aware of Zambia’s Land Acquisition Act and the supporting Acts which are a successor to the English Land Tenure System that was introduced by the British colonialists in the late 1890s. During the colonial era, there was no clear land policy or law to promote land alienation to Africans. Crown land was established for the occupation of white settlers only. crown land was for native settlement and mining development. It included the land being certified following geological surveys conducted to confirm its suitability for European development. Most of the land, which is known to contain potential mineral resources, was along the line of rail, from Livingstone to Chililabombwe. The powers of alienating land were vested in the Government. 

However, Sir, there was no ordinance that prescribed the procedure for land alienation. The reason for a lack of early prescribed procedure was due to the fact that indigenous people were not allowed to acquire Crown land despite the white population being small.

Mr Speaker, in 1964, Zambia inherited Acts or ordinances that had a bearing on town and country planning, land survey and land legislation. The issue that required the Government’s attention was to make land accessible to the people with clear procedures and guidelines. The people expected changes in the system of land administration in order to meet the demands and expectations of the Zambian people. 

Mr Speaker, we are all aware that Zambia had a dual legal system. This also applies to the administration of land. The Land Act of 1995 provides that land should be held under leasehold tenure. The lease period is ninety-nine years and it is automatically renewable which, I think, is not right. This provides the security of tenure enjoyed under freehold and, at the same time, ensures the Government’s control through covenants of the lease. 

Further, Sir, the holder of customary land can also obtain title to such land in consultation with the chief and district councils concerned. It is, however, important to note that customary tenure is not expressly defined in the Lands Act of 1995 but, as already mentioned, it provides for the recognition of customary tenure as a form of land-holding in the country. Customary land is taken to constitute all land that was previously owned or the commencement of the Lands Act referred to as the reserved land and trust land. It is, therefore, important that headmen and chiefs play an important role in ensuring that the land in their localities is administered for the betterment of their subjects, based on the knowledge of their respective tribal customs and traditions. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Often, what we see are Government officials taking centre stage. This is in contrast with the provisions of the Lands Act of 1995 which states that:

“Every piece of land in a customary area which, immediately before the commencement of the Lands Act was vested in or held by any person under customary tenure, shall continue to be so held and recognised, and any provision of the Lands Act or any other law shall not be so construed as to infringe any customary right enjoyed by that person before the commencement of the Lands Act.”

Mr Speaker, this means that although customary tenure appears informal in most respects, it is a legally-recognised system of land-holding in Zambia. The law further provides that:

“The rights and privileges of any person to hold land under customary tenure shall be recognised and any such holding under the customary law applicable to the area in which a person has settled or intends to settle shall not be construed as an infringement of any provision of this Act or any other law except for a right or obligation which may arise under any other law.”

This entails that customary tenure is just as important as leasehold tenure in terms of the protection of the rights and interests of those who hold such land. However, when land has become subject to leasehold title, customary rights cease to exist on that piece of land. It is worth mentioning that apart from the Lands Act Cap 184 of the Laws of Zambia, land in Zambia is also governed by the Lands Acquisition Act Cap 189.

Mr Speaker, despite these legal and institutional provisions on the administration of land in Zambia, there appears to be glaring loopholes in the current system. For example, the Lands Circular of 1985 provides for 250 hectares as a limit on the amount of land an individual can own. However, this can be surpassed if one was to get written consent from the hon. Minister – and I think this is wrong – allowing him/her to own more land as entitled to. Ultimately, this becomes a challenge. 

Mr Speaker, another challenge comes with the Lands Acquisition Act Cap 189 of the Laws of Zambia which gives powers to chiefs to lease the land in their chiefdoms while still maintaining the 250-hectare limit. We have seen this being abused to some extent. Chiefs are given ‘brown envelopes’ in exchange for over 50,000 hectares of land. With this, traditional rulers tend to make decisions both within and outside the bounds of the law in the name of being the owners of the land. I think this is not right. This has led to an increase in irregularities in the sale of land and people owning more land than is acceptable. Again, corruption is at play here.

Mr Speaker, it is undoubted that such circumstances have been encouraged by the lack of strict laws and policies on land alienation. This is because when large investments are involved, local and traditional leaders are hardly consulted, as the hon. Minister’s approval overrides the Chief’s powers. This has led to the displacement of a lot of people. Large pieces of land are sold to foreigners on the pretext of investment while the common Zambian has to wait for a long time to acquire land and get a title deed. In some cases, the title deed is misplaced or important documents go missing in the offices of Government officials. This is compounded by the fact that the issuance of title deeds is highly centralised.

Mr Speaker, this now brings me to the heart of this Motion, and that is, what can the Government do …

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours. 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was about to start winding up my debate. 

Sir, it is painful to see investors get land in our constituencies. In one constituency, an investor was given 50,000 hectares of land. In another constituency, 100,000 hectares of land was given and 200,000 hectares of land in another constituency. In the next ten years, this country will have no land for the indigenous people.

Mr Speaker, in view of the foregoing, it is my appeal to the Government to look into the matter of irregularly-acquired land. It does not matter whether the owners of such land have title deeds because these are just pieces of paper that can be cancelled. I remember the late President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., may his soul rest in peace, cancelled title deeds for one investor who had obtained land irregularly. 

Mr Speaker, it is my appeal, once again, to the Government to look into the matter of irregularly-acquired land and consider repossessing it whenever and wherever this is desirable. I am aware that my brother, Hon. Kapeya, is performimg very well.

Mr Mbulakulima: Aah! 

He is not.

Mr Chipungu: I also call upon the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection to be transparent, just and accountable …

Interruptions

Mr Chipungu: … in the allocation of land so as to provide an opportunity to every Zambian to own a piece of land and use it to develop himself/herself and his/her family. The Government should repossess all irregularly-acquired land and consider introducing a programme intended to build capacity in traditional rulers and their village councils in handling issues of land. This will enable them to know the important role that they should play in land administration. I would also further urge the Government to strive for the completion of the Land Policy which, I am aware, they are doing something about, as this will solve most of the land problems that the country is currently facing. 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I wish to state that it is our duty, as citizens and servants of the people, to stand up and fight injustice wherever it surfaces. In this regard, I request each and every hon. Member to rise to the occasion and support the Motion for the benefit of the people of Zambia.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I thus call upon the Government to ensure that all the land that has been obtained corruptly is repossessed. The hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection must be pro-active in this matter. The Office of the Commissioner of Lands is not easily accessible. He behaves like a president, and yet he is a Government official. What is the problem? It is easier to see an hon. Minister than it is to see the Commissioner of Lands. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Chipungu: This trend must stop.

Sir, I also urge the Government to ensure that all land that has been obtained corruptly is repossessed. The hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection must be pro-active in this matter. Government officials must stop alienating land without consulting the stakeholders. In my constituency, Government officers went to my constituency quietly to demarcate land. I am a headman. So, why should people go to my village without consulting me? I do not like that.

Sir, I beg to move.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Belemu: Now, Sir.

Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to second the Motion that has been ably moved by the hon. Member for Rufunsa who was my supervisor at work many years ago just like Hon. Namugala, Hon. Dr Kaingu, Hon. Pande and Hon. Masebo. So, I suppose I derive my good character from them.

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, my agreeing to second this Motion is motivated, firstly, by the fact that I now agree with the arguments going around the world that the use of land, water resources and agriculture are the geopolitical issues of the 21st Century. Therefore, Zambia must not be left behind in this debate. As a country, we need to open debate on various issues that relate to land and land acquisition.

Secondly, Sir, those of us who represent rural constituencies know how high the demand for land is. We know how much pressure people are under to acquire land. So, they end up acquiring it illegally. Some of the land transactions that have taken place are highly questionable and irregular because they are done without the due process of consultation as the hon. Mover of the Motion has said.

Thirdly, Sir, as a country, like most of Africa, the rural people acquire and use land through customary tenure. The trouble that we always come across in this regard is that the customary tenure rights are not accorded protection in most instances, either through administrative processes or the formal law. 

Fourthly, Sir, land and land acquisitions is a very sensitive matter. However, as a country, we must begin to debate it. We must do it now and demonstrate political courage. If we do not do it now, we will be creating a time bomb. So, it is only right that we begin to debate this matter of land and land acquisition.

Mr Speaker, we are told that there is a scramble for land, particularly in Africa and a country like ours. Therefore, it is only befitting that this Parliament considers this Motion favourably. So, by debating this matter, we are asking the Government to repossess all the illegally-acquired pieces of land in Zambia. In any case, if something has been illegally acquired, it is only right that corrective measures are taken. There are such cases in our constituencies and the country at large. My arguments, in support of the Motion, are as follows:

We have been told that land is good for investment, and most of the land under question is acquired by people we can call “international investors”. This relates to huge tracts of land. The general argument is that apart from the employment that is created in the areas where the land is, food security for our people is also enhanced. However, from experience, we know that the investments do not actually benefit the locals and the country at large. I can give examples of people who were displaced in my constituency for purposes of growing jatropha. No one in my constituency has ever eaten jatropha and no one has had any use for it. So, while large tracts of land have been given away for growing jatropha, the people remain hungry, poor and in need. It is this kind of investment, particularly when it is done illegally, that we are saying must be revisited.

Sir, we are also aware that people who acquire land, particularly those that do it illegally, go to countries where land administration and land governance systems appear to be weak. A case in mind is our country where matters of land are spread over various pieces of legislation, some of which are mere circulars like the Land Circular of 1985, and we are still talking about coming up with a land policy. So, people are taking advantage of the fact that Zambia does not have a land policy and has not put together all the different guidelines regarding the alienation and acquisition of land. If you go to the Land Circular of 1985, you will see that it was meant for the one party era under the United National Independence Party (UNIP). The guidelines in there basically indicate who should be involved in the processes, and yet some of the positions have since been abolished. So, people take advantage of the weaknesses in our law regarding land and come to acquire this land and, at some point, sell it to us, Zambians. This is not correct. Therefore, all the land that was acquired illegally or irregularly must be repossessed by the Government and corrective measures taken.

Mr Speaker, most of this land that is illegally acquired or transferred neglects the existing land rights and displaces local populations. It does not take into account who is there. It would probably make sense if the people who are settled in the affected areas are taken into account. However, at the moment, most of the investors do not care about the welfare of our people. Such investment causes the local people to lose access to various aspects of land, including forest products. I can give an example of my constituency where we are basically pastoralists. We have used certain routes for many years. Now, you will find that after a person has been given land on which a particular route that has been used for many years to take cattle to the river is, and he/she blocks it. All this is in the name of investment. Such kind of land acquisitions must be revisited because it confines people to poverty and many other difficulties.

Sir, as I have indicated, some investments do not benefit the locals. Why was the land acquired in the first place? I have given an example of the jatropha project that was given so much land when all the villagers around only eat maize and other forms of food. So, the people remain hungry and continue to be impoverished.

Mr Speaker, the other reason I think the land must be repossessed by the Government is that most of it disturbs the eco-sensitive areas. I can give examples of some of the rivers and streams that have been over-used as a result of creating too many dams on them following illegal land acquisitions in our country. There is a general disturbance of wildlife and cattle. One farmer may want to venture into game ranching while the farmer next to him/her is trying to raise cattle. We are told that some of the diseases that are breaking out now are as a result of the interface between wildlife and domestic animals. For instance, we are told that the Ebola is associated with monkeys. If you are keeping monkeys in the same area as my farm, you will create problems for the local people.

Mr Speaker, we know that a lot of emphasis has been placed on investment promotion. It appears we are trying to encourage investors to grow various crops. However, there are other forms of agriculture we can use as opposed to displacing people or giving our land to foreigners. We can, for example, encourage contract farming, out-grower schemes and joint ventures. 

Mr Speaker, why should we give a foreign investor 10,000 hectares of land just to grow one crop? Would it not be prudent to contract the local small-scale farmers in a certain location to grow, for example, soybeans? Why would somebody come from abroad to grow 20,000 hectares of soybeans when it is also possible for the locals to grow it on smaller pieces of land which, when put together, will amount to the same quantity as what that farmer produces? The investments undertaken by large-scale farmers of foreign origin have a selfish connotation and exclude the local people.

Mr Speaker, as I have indicated earlier, we seem to be entering into deals that favour large- scale commercial farming with the belief that such arrangements will benefit us. Our experience, however, is that the opposite is actually true. Such arrangements leave the vulnerable even more vulnerable. At the end of the day, we have people that are displaced around farming areas. They are turned into squatters, and yet that is the only place that they have ever known as home from time immemorial.

Mr Speaker, it is against this background that I support the Motion that has been moved by the hon. Member for Rufunsa. I am of the view that in the long run, this kind of land acquisition by foreigners, if not checked, is going to create social polarisation and political instability. Some of the pressures we are seeing in communities today are as a result of people being displaced from areas which they have known as their homes for years.

Mr Speaker, it is only right, therefore, that the Government completely overhauls and reviews the acquisition of land, particularly large pieces of land. We need to check the legality or regularity in the acquisition of certain chunks of land so that where there are irregularities, the State can take corrective measures to repossess it.

Mr Speaker, as I wind up my debate, I would like to use the analogy of the fox and alligator. Before I learnt how to read, my elder brother read to me a story in a supplementary reader about a fox and an alligator. The story goes this way: An alligator went out of the river and strayed into the bush. After some time, it got very thirty and started crying for help. A kind fox carried the alligator on its back to the river. When they reached the banks of the river, the alligator insisted that the fox takes it to the deep end of the river. When they reached the deep end, the alligator turned around and said it was going to eat the fox.

Several animals came to witness what was happening, but none of them could help the fox. However, there came a hare who said, “Okay, why do we not go back to where the incident began so that you can begin the negotiations again.” So, the three of them walked back into the bush up to where it all started. When the fox was asked to go through what he had gone through with the alligator, he refused because he knew that when they got to the river, the alligator would eat him.  

Sir, the same applies to the issue of land. People will come to our country in the pretext of helping us. In the process, they take up our land and the areas around communities. What was initially 100 hectares becomes 200 hectares. Before we know it they have amassed 500 or 1,000 hectares of land. Eventually, the local people become powerless in that area. 

So, it is only right that this Motion is supported. We need to go back to where the story began. The land that has been acquired illegally should be repossessed so that we, as a country, can start on a clean slate. If we ignore this issue now, we are just creating a problem for ourselves and the future generations. This is a vexing, serious and topical matter. 

Mr Speaker, this is a matter that is being considered not only here, in Zambia, but the world over, particularly in sub-Saharan Africa. We are quickly losing land. That is why it is now being called the rush or grab for African land internationally. 

We have also noted that some people will come to Zambia in the name of farming but,in no time, they start prospecting, digging and getting all sorts of stuff. The local people cannot appreciate why somebody should be picking soil from a village and putting it on a plane to some place. We suspect that they are doing more than just cultivating whatever crop they are talking about.

Mr Speaker, my submission is that going forward, customary and statutory tenure of land should be harmonised. Our starting point is to conduct an audit of the land that has been acquired illegally.

With these remarks, Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I would like to start by thanking the mover and seconder of this Motion. I also stand to support this very important and non-partisan Motion which is in national interest. Land is the only endowment that we can pass onto future generations. 

In this vein, Sir, I would like to thank the First Republican President, Dr Kenneth David Kaunda who, together with his colleagues, did their best to safeguard our God-given land. When Dr Kaunda and his colleagues left office, those that led this country after them, including the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) to which I belong, were less than responsible when it came to matters of land,. This is why I am saying this Motion is in national interest. It is, therefore, not partisan. In fact, I would like to state that the MMD was the most careless. 

The current President …

Interruptions 

Ms Namugala: Yes, it is serious because we have to criticise ourselves.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, one of the reasons President Sata and his colleagues were elected into office is that they promised equity in the distribution of land. I remember President Sata then in the Opposition, used to condemn those he referred to as “infesters and not investors”. He used to say that they came to Zambia pretending to be investors when, in fact, they were “infesters” who had come to get our country in order to enrich themselves. 

However, now that President Sata, who promised us that he was going to correct the wrongs committed by his predecessors, is in charge, we have continued to see the abuse of land. In fact, it has become worse under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government than it was before.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, until we begin to see what is wrong with ourselves, we shall not correct what is wrong with everybody else. The current Administration has done very little to put in place a legal framework that is going to ensure that the so-called investors are not using land for speculation. This Government has failed to put in place an administrative system that reduces the powers of the local authorities, including the Commissioner of Lands, who decides when, how and how much land to give.

Mr Speaker, the local authorities are culprits. We know that the land that the mover and seconder of the Motion are referring to is customary land. In most cases, you will find a situation where a so-called investor will go to a chief, sit with the chief and promise heaven on earth for their subjects. The chief is going to consent to giving the investor 100 hectares of land. When the investor goes to the local authorities, he/she will convince the councillors to give him 500 hectares of land. By the time this investor gets to the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, he/she will have 5,000 hectares of land on title.

Mr Speaker, these hon. Ministers sitting very comfortably here have failed us. They have failed me and the people of Zambia …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: … because they have become so comfortable that they have forgotten the promises they made.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: They have even ignored the urgent issue of land acquisition.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ndalamei: Kambwili.

Ms Namugala: Under your Administration, you have allowed foreigners to come into our country and acquire up to 10,00 to 20,000 hectares of land.

Mr Mwamba: It started under the MMD.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front Government has a duty to ensure that our chiefs become less irresponsible. Chiefs are the biggest culprits. They have been given the mandate; a blank cheque by this Government to entertain foreigners in their chiefdoms and tell … 

Hon. Opposition Member: Lies.

Ms Namugala: Not lies, Mr Speaker, … and concoct facts by claiming that the foreigners are their subjects. Where have you ever seen a Chinese national who is a subject of Chifunabuli?

Hon. Opposition Members: Nowhere!

Interruptions

Ms Namugala: Where have you seen Somalians who are subjects of Chief Mungule? Mr Speaker, from here all the way to Kabwe, the Lenje people have lost the land along the road.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ndalamei: Mawe!

Ms Namugala: The land has been sold for very little to the Chinese and Somalians. 

Mr Speaker, our people have become impoverished because what they inherited from their forefathers is being given to foreigners who will never give it back to the indigenous Zambians.

Mr Mwamba: Ba MMD. 

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, I am not a racist, but I want to say that the indigenous Zambians that are black like me, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: … must first and foremost have access to land.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, Dr Kaunda and his colleagues fought for Independence so that we could have control over our land.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Alas, Mr Speaker, when you go to the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection – and hon. Minister, please, take time; this is not partisan. There are people; families that own close to 300,000 hectares of land. They acquire the land through their children, companies, brothers and sisters, but we all know that it is only one person who owns all the land through so many people. 

Mr Speaker, the late President Levy Mwanawasa, SC., may his soul rest in peace, closed the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection because of the rampant corruption at the ministry. That is the political will that we expect to see in this Government. We expect them to put their house in order and not to allow the corruption that has been there to continue. Unless they fight this corruption, what they tell us here is just lip service.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection is a corrupt Ministry …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: … because when you go there, you will not find people of a particular skin colour queuing for land, and yet they own the biggest chunks of land. Our people wait for twenty years just to get title deeds.

Mr Speaker, I support this Motion, but I know that this does not mean anything because the power to change lies with those people on your right. We cannot wait until 2016 because the rot is there now and it needs to be corrected. My supporting this Motion is in the best interest of every Zambian out there but, like I have said, it means nothing if those that have the power do not consider this as an issue that requires urgent attention.

Sir, when you talk of reducing poverty, and your people who have settled on a piece of land from one generation to the other are displaced because you have given their land to an investor, where are they going to cultivate? How are you going to end poverty? Hon. Minister of Finance, we know that land is a factor of production. When you talk about reducing poverty and, at the same time, remove land from your people, you are paying lip service to something that you know you cannot achieve.

As leaders, let us be practical and do what the people expect. That is, to correct the wrongs that we have all contributed to. You, as the PF, have the power to change things.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, let me join Hon. Namugala in congratulating the mover and the seconder of the Motion. As Parliament, we should play a role in improving the governance of our country. 

Mr Speaker, a Motion like this one is about all of us playing a part in improving the welfare of our people. In the West, this Motion could be called bi-partisan. Here, we call it a multi-partisan Motion. It is about all of us as leaders. Firstly, as the mover and seconder have indicated, we need to interrogate the policy behind land administration. Thereafter, we should see what we can do to improve legislation to support the envisaged policy. We have all noticed the problem and I am going to go into the details of the different levels of shortages of land.

Sir, on paper, there is no shortage of land in this country, especially when you compare the population of the land, the land use and that unused. The problem that we have is that we have not put procedures and systems in place to, first of all, define the areas. For example, there is pressure for land for housing and commercial development near towns and that requires a different set of solutions. There is land in the outlying areas which requires a different set of solutions. Let me start with the land near towns.

Sir, the illegal allocation of land near towns is the cause of this artificial shortage of land. We have not opened up ownership of land to Zambians. In a small town like Monze, the young teacher, nurse, banker and engineer working for the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO), and Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL) cannot find a plot to build a house. Therefore, we must do something about this. If you do not give them an opportunity to own, at least, a plot, they will get it illegally because owning a house is a must. That is how the law of nature works. In all our towns around the country, including Lusaka, there are lots of illegal settlements. In fact, the whole of Lusaka is enveloped by illegal developments. Why? It is because we are not thinking ahead.

Mr Speaker, there is also land that is owned legally, but not in national interest. National interest is about the common good. Currently, there are farms that are domiciled within cities. These should be relocated. People are speculating with land. Actually, the culprits are the people who got land for free when they came to this country. They got chunks of Crown land along the line of rail where the towns are situated. The Government should have been pro-active enough and put national interest before this ownership. The land is legally owned, but the speculation is not correct because it disadvantages Zambians. 

Sir, today, no average Zambian can afford to buy a plot in Lusaka. A plot in Lusaka is going at US$100,000. Over the weekend, I drove around Lusaka and could not believe that land is available on the internet for those with money. We need to do something across political parties. The Land Policy and the envisaged revised law should be multi-partisan. It is a question of implementation for whoever is in Government. However, we must agree on the way forward across political parties.

Mr Pande: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I have always said that poor people can never be donated out of poverty. It does not work. I have never seen people anywhere in the world who have been donated out of poverty. What the people want are policies and their implementation by the Government. The poor people have something to bring to the table. They have their labour and land. These are the two leverages the poor people have in order to come out of poverty. Therefore, we must ensure that all Zambians own pieces of land. 

Mr Speaker, in the last Parliament, I debated that in Namibia, land can be appropriated in national interest. You can appropriate a farm which is in the vicinity of the city for national interest and compensate whoever owns it. This is not debatable. However, we should not go the Zimbabwean route. There is a lot of land around our towns that must be repossessed and the owners compensated at full value. You can give them alternative land away from the city so that young people can also own property.

 Mr Speaker, today, we are talking about inclusive development and social justice. However, this can only be achieved if people own property. I want to tell you that the biggest investor that we need in this country is a Zambian.

Mr Speaker, let me give you an example of Monze. In two years, Monze can become a municipality if you can open up land for development. I was chatting with my brother, the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, over an issue where the Government comes into Monze, takes up prime land where the town is supposed to be extended, and puts up an open air prison.

Mr Speaker, must an open air prison supersede ownership of land by that young teacher, banker, nurse and engineer? You do not have your priorities right. That is 400 hectares of land taken up by the construction of an open air prison. Monze can be a success story where all the young people and all the workers can own land and the council can collect good revenue because the number one source of revenue for councils is rates on property. If you want to grow the revenue base for councils, then, you must have more properties built in a legal way.

Mr Speaker, what is happening in Monze is that people have gone to the rural areas and are getting land from the headmen and we cannot stop them because they need shelter. They are buying land from headmen that has no title. We, in Government; the Legislature and Executive, should work together to find solutions. 

Mr Speaker, like I have debated before, look at what is happening along the Lusaka/Kabwe Road. There is nothing wrong with that development by Zambians, but we must put systems in place. As the people with money acquire land, the poor people will also have money to develop what they have. If a poor person has fifty hectares of land and sells twenty hectares, he/she will develop the remaining thirty. It makes more sense than to hold onto land when you are poor and continue burying your relatives on it. This is what is happening in this country. We should have moved from this trend by now.

Mr Speaker, there is no justice even in a customary set up. I grew up in a rural area where when a man dies, one of the relatives to the deceased will say to the widow: “This is our land so you have to go back where you came from.” The woman and the children are chased. There is no justice in the customary land tenure. Therefore, the best thing to do is to put a system in place where people have title to land even in the villages. It is due to the lack of such systems that this country has remained behind. If you do not have title to your land, it remains valueless. 

Mr Speaker, the people in the rural areas are queuing up for the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) supplies, and yet they claim to own land. If you have title to your piece of land, you can definitely use it as collateral to borrow from somewhere. Even big people in the rural areas queue for the FISP supplies which are meant for the very poor. Why? It is because the land they own, which is potential wealth, does not have title. There must be a way to transition and give title for this land in a progressive and orderly fashion. We need a revolutionary land policy and laws.

Mr Speaker, in the past few years, I have seen some sanity at the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. Now, when you go there to pay rates, you simply go to a window and ask how much your bill is, pay and get your receipt. This was not the case in the past. The funding from the Millennium Challenge Account brought some sanity to the ministry. We must continue to build on that.  

Mr Speaker, in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region and other African countries, are foreigners allowed to own land? Can a foreigner own land in Namibia, Botswana or South Africa? You know, trade, like travel, is reciprocal. If other African countries do not allow foreigners to own land, we must not allow it here. They must own land under a special investment licence which should be revised after fifteen years. However, in this country, some foreigners own land as if they are Zambians.

Mr Speaker, I have lived in Namibia where a foreigner cannot own land. So, why are you giving land to foreigners? If they want land, they must partner with Zambians to do whatever they want to do. They are the speculators. There is a farmer along the Airport Road who is speculating on land. He was the first one to make the value of land sky rocket. If you go to Makeni along the Kafue Road, there are speculators because they have seen what their colleague along the Airport Road has done.

Mr Speaker, this speculation can make you a billionaire. Some people are billionaires in this country because of speculation. We must stop this because land has become unaffordable for a Zambian. We might own houses, but there are Zambians who do not own shelter. Surely, how can Zambians not own a plot in a country that is so huge and has flat land? Is that justice? You are saying that there is poverty and that we are leaving no inheritance for our children. How can people leave an inheritance when they cannot own land?

Mr Speaker, land is where you can put your money. You can own a farm, but the real wealth is in brick and mortar. Ask the Jews. Everyone must own real estate. That is the safest investment for your children. I can have cows, but I cannot leave cows as an inheritance for my children. The cows are a means to acquire real wealth which is real estate. To exploit that animal wealth and use it to make a solid and secure investment for my children, I need a piece of land where I can build a house after selling my animals.

Please, leaders in here, the people are waiting for us to find a solution to this problem so that they can own land. I am speaking for the majority. This country is highly urbanised. Almost 50 per cent of the population is in the urban areas and these people are not provided for. There are also serious costs associated to the illegal construction of properties.

Sir, there is no provision for water and sanitation. Look at Lusaka which is much bigger than Windhoek, but Windhoek has managed to maintain its urban roads. In Lusaka, the Ministry of Finance has to give money to the Lusaka City Council (LCC) to maintain urban roads. The potential income from properties in Lusaka can actually develop a number of kilometres of roads financed by the LCC. We are denying services to poor people in the outlying areas because the Treasury is funding urban roads in Lusaka. Why? It is because most of the properties in Lusaka are not paying rates because they are illegal. We must quickly legalise these properties. Lusaka must be extended. In fact, Lusaka must be unparcelled. We need to have Lusaka Eastgate somewhere in Silverest, Lusaka Northgate in Katuba, and Lusaka Southgate in Shimabala so that it can be managed well. Let the central part of the city be dealt with by the LCC, and let sub municipalities bring order to the other areas. You cannot have a city that cannot grow. 

Please, Sir, the issue of foreigners owning land here must be revised. Let us be on the same page as the other countries in the SADC region. You cannot own land in Namibia, but Namibians own land here through proxies. Can a Zambian own land in South Africa? We are a rich country. These tracts of land you are giving to other people are not adding value to our people. When this land is given to our people, they can also add value to it. I can tell you that if you give title to the land in our rural areas, farmers can become overnight millionaires, and they will graduate from the FISP and Food Reserve Agency (FRA) because they will have the capacity to trade anywhere. However, our people are always operating at lower level because of the lack of title to their land. This is the only country where we have subjected our people to operate at lower level, and they cannot see beyond their borders. What is stopping the farmer from exporting his/her maize to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC)? The problem is that the farmers are not empowered. Today, I have received phone calls from my constituency where people are queuing up for FISP inputs. Everybody is queuing up for FISP inputs, including those who could have been rich if they had been empowered with land. Let us remove politics from these issues. Let us have a good Constitution that will give birth to proper subsidiary legislation such as legislation on land. I think that this is urgent. As Parliament, let us have caucuses across political parties. That is why the amphitheatre is there. It is for caucuses across parties. I have never seen a Parliament that does not meet and discuss issues. We are just politicking. However, are people going to eat politics? Can you cook and eat politics?

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: Eeh? 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I would like to say that we, the leaders across the divide, are failing our people. The leadership we have is uninspiring. I want to thank the mover and seconder of the Motion for raising this issue because these are the issues we must discuss in this House. We must be discussing issues that affect our people. I think that this debate must not remain here. We just adopt Motions here and it ends there. There is no follow up made on the issues. Tomorrow, some people will come and argue against what they had agreed upon. There is no follow up on these issues. There is no output but input. We must be conclusive. I hope, going forward, this Motion is a platform that will help us to take clear actions with clear time lines. 

Hon. Masebo, I heard about your situation from your constituency. There must be order there. However, systems are the ones that are going to help us resolve these problems. Repossessing land without putting systems in place will lead to relapses of the situations we have come from. It is systems and clear planning that will move us out of the problem that we have. For now, you can repossess the land. However, tomorrow, you will have issues of illegal land allocation again. The people want land for property development across the country. Let us set priorities right. I would like to urge the hon. Ministers of Home Affairs, and Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection to work together in relation to that issue in Monze. They should go to Monze and deal with the issue of the open air prison. The prison has become a priority, instead of people owning property and households, liberating themselves from poverty. You also want to put up a milling company in the centre of town. You want to grow maize and bring mosquitoes into the town. 

Mr Kampyongo: Raise the issue.

Mr Hamududu: We have raised the issue. You wrote to us my honourable brother …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Debate through the Chairperson.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the prison takes precedence over town development.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Hamududu: Yes, the open air prison has taken precedence. You want prisoners to be moving about in town. Take them away for reformation. Do not bring them into the town. Let us be practical. I am giving you, hon. Ministers of Home Affairs, and Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, a challenge for Monze. You should lay that complaint on the Table in Cabinet. Let us see whether you have the political will to deal with the land shortage in this country for those young people who cannot own plots, and yet you own houses.

Mr Speaker, with these remarks, I support the Motion.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

His Honour the Vice-President may take the Floor.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

The Vice-President (Dr Scott):  Mr Speaker, I am not rising to wind up the debate, but to put the Patriotic Front’s (PF) position on this Motion clearly in this House. In fact, this is not the PF’s position, but that of the Government.

Mr Speaker, I sympathise with the mover of the Motion who, in my opinion, made an excellent speech. It plucks strings at the same heart as you have on this side of the House. Today, we do not intend to shoot you down, although it is very tempting. Hon. Namugala gets a bit over the top and it is very tempting to get back at her, but I think that I will leave that for now.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I think that we will not vote against the Motion. We will not also vote for it because we know what you will do. Your left hand side will say: See, we forced the Government to sit up and take notice of this issue.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, when we came into power in this Chamber three years ago, we had been regaled for nearly two years by the United Party for National Development (UPND) hon. Members over the Sichifulo crisis where many small-holder farmers had been turned into internally-displaced people by the actions of some chiefs in the Southern Province. The people of Sichifulo had been moved out of an area that they had been staying in for no obvious reason or that would stand in court. The previous Government under the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) had brushed this issue aside. They set up a commission of inquiry and decided to let things be and, maybe, find some compensation from somewhere. We acted very quickly because we had been convinced. Within two months of entering the Government, we had assembled the forces in the Government and, in a planned and coherent way, replaced the people of Sichifulo. After that, we had the issue of the airport land, for example, and, although they changed their t-shirts and chitenges from blue to green, we took force down there and asked them to vacate the land which had been illegally sold by people purporting to be Government agents. We did the same thing in Makeni. We have just done the same thing in Luano. We have been active. Two of the things that the President directly said to me were that, first of all, he wanted me to enforce the present legislation on land so that people do not grab land. Those were his very words and, secondly, he asked me to catalyse the development of a new Lands Act and measures to back it up. It is not that easy. Hon. Chipungu did not mention specifically on which piece of land President Levy Mwanawasa, SC., reversed the title deed. However, it is somewhere near his constituency, and the owner of the land, President Mwanawasa, SC., instructed that the policy be put in place and restricted issuance of land to any one person to 250 hectares without prior approval of the Commissioner of Lands. 

President Mwanawasa, SC., passed on before the cancellation of the title deed. When President Rupiah Banda came into power, he directed that the title deed not be cancelled. A Consent Order was, therefore, issued by the High Court, following an opinion from the Attorney-General and an application to the High Court, seeking an order that the investor was the rightful owner of the land. In this regard, the said land has now been legalised by the courts of law. 

These are the kind of issues you will find when you go into the nitty-gritty. It is not that simple to label each piece of land legal or illegal. There is usually a long convoluted history. In this case, the council took the land from the chiefs, then sold it to the investor so that it looked legal. Technically, it is legal, but morally not in practice.

Mr Speaker, with your indulgence, let me quote from the last circular that I issued on this subject because we were having a lot of trouble. As you may know, when Hon. Harry Kalaba was Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, he made a statement, and this was also under instruction from His Excellency the President, that chiefs shall not sell land because they do not have the powers to do so. There was uproar from the chiefs. After all, if they were all empowered to sell land, the whole lot of them would be millionaires.

Laughter 

Dr Scott: Land has value.

If they look out their palaces with doors that do not even close properly, and see all the land, …

Laughter 

Dr Scott: … they feel nice. They can sell it, and if they can sell it, they would be very rich. 

Laughter 

Dr Scott: However, it is against the law and this is what we had to state. 

Mr Speaker, the circular, which basically summarises the Lands Act of 1995, was circulated to hon. Members of Parliament, councils and chiefs. The Lands Act of 1995 is very defective, I grant you. Nonetheless, it is an Act that we have and one which must sit around for a while as we go to the immensely complicated issue of the Multi-Sectoral Lands Act that we actually need. The Act does not allow the following:

(i)    the sale of customary land;

(ii)    the allocation of large tracts of customary land to a foreigner or foreign investor;

(iii)    the displacement of local people from customary land for whatever reason, that is, the Sichifulo case; and

(iv)    the transfer of customary land by a Zambian to a foreign company or investor.

The ministerial statement, which I used as the basis, did not ban the following transactions:

(i)    the acquisition of customary land by a district council in order to allow for extension of the township boundaries;

(ii)    the conversion of land from customary tenure to lease tenure by a Zambian occupying such land; and

(iii)    land acquired for economic empowerment purposes for the underprivileged, resettlement and investment purposes, with the express consent of His Excellency the President in whose hands all land vests.

 Mr Speaker, this is where we stand. 

The other day, I was asked in an interview about what keeps me awake at night. I responded that only one thing keeps me awake at night, and that is the vision of where the land situation has got to in ten or twenty years’ time in Zambia. Zambia is a big country with a small population. We have an average of about five hectares of land per person, but this can easily turn into a nightmare like the ones we have seen not a million miles from here. 

The issue of land has a long history. The Scottish, after the last attempt to fight their way to Independence about 200 years ago, lost the battle with the British. The English came with their money and bought all the traditional land in Scotland from the chiefs, calling it the “highland clearances”, where all the small farmers were moved from Northern Scotland to the South then to England and later to the United States of America. The same thing could easily happen here. We only have to catch on and a few years would suffice to actually denude Zambia of its land for legitimate purposes. 

We  must also recognise that half the population of this country lives in rural areas and the only real social security we have is the land. It is the safety net. It is where one goes when one cannot get formal employment and we have to take care of it. In my office, we are currently assembling a video and still picture record of all the marginalised and vulnerable populations or tribal groups, some of whom are under threat or have been under threat, not only from foreign investors who want land, but also local investors. After all, we, the Zambians, are a very ingenious people. Just because we are the same colour as Hon. Namugala does not mean that we cannot grab 10,000 hectares of land and stop people from having access to the river.

Laughter 

Dr Scott: It happens. It is a human phenomenon. There is nothing special about the race or origin of anyone involved. If you removed every foreigner from this country, you would still have injustices. This is how people are. 

Mr Speaker, just for emphasis, I will say that we approve the Motion. We like it. However, for technical reasons, and to avoid confusion about who is the Opposition and who is working hard, as the Government, we will abstain. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection (Mr Kapeya): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to debate on this Motion.

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir. 

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. 

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, ordinarily, I would not have raised a point of order after His Honour the Vice-President has spoken. 

Mr Speaker, His Honour the Vice-President has given the Government’s position … 

Mr Livune: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: … on this matter as well as a direction on what should be done on the part of those in Government. 

What will the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection tell us that will be contradictory to what His Honour the Vice-President has indicated? I thought that what should happen now is to vote on this issue and put it to rest ... 

Mr Livune: That is right!

Mr Mwiimbu: … because the directive has already been given. AS the Head of Government Business in this House, His Honour the Vice-President has given a direction. 

I need your direction on this matter, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: The direction is that the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection has been given a chance to respond to certain issues that were said against his ministry. 

The Government’s position has been articulated. However, there are certain issues which were raised by hon. Members on my left which call for a response from the hon. Minister. He has, therefore, been given an opportunity to respond to those issues. You need to hear both sides. 

Hon. Minister, you may continue. 

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, once again, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Motion to reposess illegally acquired land. I further wish to thank the mover of the Motion, Hon. Kennedy Chipungu, MP. 

Ms Namugala: On a point of order, Sir. 

The Deputy Chairperson: I am not allowing any more points of order. Hon. Minister, you may continue.

Mr Kapeya: Furthermore, I wish to thank all the hon. Members of this House who have debated this Motion. 

Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to respond to the issues raised by Hon. Namugala, who alleged that the current President has offloaded large chunks of land to foreigners. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: This is completely out of the mind. 

Hon. Livune: Question!

Laughter 

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, since coming into power three years ago, His Excellency the President and hon. Ministers who have held the portfolio of Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection have not released any land to foreigners. My predecessors, Hon. Wilbur Simuusa and Hon. Kalaba, have never approved an acre, let alone 1,000 acres of land to any investor. This is the reality. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, land is an important resource that every Zambian should protect, as it is key to reducing poverty in our country. It is also important to ensure that this resource is allocated in an equitable manner so as to promote harmony in the country. 

Sir, Subsection 5 of Section 3 of the Lands Act, Cap 184 of the Laws of Zambia states:

“All land in Zambia is vested in the President and shall be controlled and administered by the President of Zambia for the common good of all the people of Zambia.”

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Kapeya: However, the day-to-day administration and alienation of land is done through the Commissioner of Lands. Further, as the hon. Members of the august House are aware, there are two categories of land in Zambia, namely customary land and State land. Customary land constitutes 94 per cent of the land while State land constitutes only 6 per cent. Traditional leaders play an important role in the administration of customary land. 

Mr Speaker, where both customary land and State land exist, certificates of title will only be given for State land and not customary land. However, if one wants to obtain a certificate of title for customary land, that person or institution is required to obtain consent from the chief for the land in question to be converted to State land. This consent is just a recommendation from the traditional leaders for the land in question to be converted to State land and for the issuance of title deeds by my ministry. 

Sir, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has observed, with sadness, the high levels of illegality in the acquisition of land in some parts of the country, especially in customary areas and, in some instance, State land. As such, my ministry has, in the recent past, taken measures to curb this vice, including the non-issuance of title deeds to any developer on customary land in order to protect the interests and rights of local people. 

Mr Speaker, I have also been making pronouncements warning all investors, individuals or institutions that have acquired land from chiefs without following laid-down procedures or unauthorised dealers in land that such activities shall not be condoned by my ministry. 

Sir, we, therefore, support the Motion since it has joined the support in bringing sanity in land alienation which the Patriotic Front Government had already done and will continue doing. In fact, if the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) had taken the steps that we, in the PF, have taken to deal with illegality, it would not have reached these levels today. 

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, let me hasten to mention that the PF cadres are a disciplined force …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Kapeya: … that is aware of the laid-down procedures of acquiring land and is, therefore, not involved in this illegality. It is the cadres from the previous Government who are making a living from illegality and who have changed colour from the MMD to the PF for expedience. This is a fact. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Ask Hon. Evans.

Mr Kapeya: Mr Speaker, let all the people who are interested in acquiring land, either traditional areas or State land, approach the responsible offices which are in all parts of the country. As a ministry, we have always emphasised that no one should purchase a piece of land from any person without undertaking a search at the Ministry of Lands, Environment and Natural Resources. It is not our wish to let people put up infrastructure on illegally-acquired land and have it demolished eventually. It is a very painful thing to do due to the fact that people labour to find money …

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Kalaba: Gary.

Mr Kapeya: … which is spent to put up the infrastructure. The PF Government is determined to bring sanity to the land administration of mother Zambia.

Mr Speaker, it is important to note that there are various portions of land that were acquired through illegal transnctions such as:

(a)    most of the shanty compounds around Lusaka and other major towns along the line of rail. The plots in these compounds were acquired illegally when the privately-owned land was either invaded or illegally subdivided by persons calling themselves chairmen or cadres in areas that include parts of Chawama, Kanyama, Makululu, SOS, Matero North near the graveyard, Mindolo North in Kitwe, some areas in Mufulira, Government land including schools and barracks;

(b)    customary areas such as parts of north of Chipata Compound, Mungule area and several chiefdoms that have settlements that have not been authorised by the traditional authorities or the councils; and

(c)    some council officials, councillors and traditional leaders have abused their powers and allocated huge tracts of land to investors without these transactions reaching my ministry. All those involved in such dealings have lost out. 

Mr Speaker, it is for this reason that the Government has commenced the Land Audit Exercise in order to collect statistics on land use patterns across the country. Through the land audit, the Government will clean up the confusion that has been created by brining accurate records of who is on the ground and how they get the land. With the introduction of the Zambia Integrated Land Management Information System (ZILMIS), land allocation in Zambia will be smooth. Indeed, land in Zambia is important.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Kapeya: Sir, the current problem in land administration …

The Deputy Chairperson: An earlier ruling was made that I will not entertain anymore points of order. There is no exception to the rule. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya: Sir, the current problem in land administration has not started in the three years that the PF has been in Government, but has been going on for over twenty years when various compounds, vigilantes, cadres, chairmen and so on and so forth have been acting as councils or commissioners of land. Currently, the situation is quite chaotic in some towns. For example, according to the 2010 Census results, about 70 per cent of the population in Lusaka lives in unplanned settlements. All the settlements have inhabitants who illegally acquired the land. 

Sir, there is nowhere in the Land Act, Cap 184 of the Laws of Zambia where traditional leaders are authorised to sell land. Traditional leaders are only custodians of the land on behalf of the President who holds it on behalf of the Zambian people. Traditional leaders are only authorised to allocate up to 250 hectares of land to indigenous Zambians at no cost. Therefore, if any traditional leader has sold land either to indigenous Zambians or investors, he/she has done so illegally and the land will be repossessed.

Mr Speaker, it is also important to note that not all developers who have huge tracts of land obtained it illegally. People who obtained land legally are protected under the Laws of Zambia. The Government can only acquire their land through the Land Acquisition Act, Cap 189 of the Laws of Zambia. Under this law, the President can compulsory repossess land if he is of the view that such an Act is desirable or expedient in the interest of the people of Zambia. In this case, the Government will be required to compensate the owner of the land based on the market value of the land in question. 

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to reiterate that my Government will ensure that all the tracts of land that have been acquired illegally will be reposessed and no compensation shall be given. Further, let me assure Zambians that there is a lot of land in the country, but people should follow the laid-down procedures in acquiring land like what other Zambians are doing.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, let me thank Hon. Namugala, Hon. Hamududu, Hon. Kapeya and all those who have debated this Motion. I also wish to thank His Honour the Vice-President for his guidance. I wish to state that we will be waiting for this to be implemented.  

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

MOTION OF THANKS

(Debate resumed)

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, I would like to be very quick in my debate to ensure that I capture all my points. Firstly, before I come to the question I raised yesterday, I would like to read page I of Volume II of the alleged President’s Speech …

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: … which says,

“Three years have gone by since the Patriotic Front (PF) assumed office. During this period, Zambia has posted strong indicators of progress in the political, economic and social spheres.”

Mr Speaker, I had informed this House that the people of North-Western Province, Solwezi West in particular, have been telling me, as their Member of Parliament, that they are not happy with the performance of the Patriotic Front Government. This is because the PF Government has ignored the fact that the money that is being used to develop some parts of Zambia is actually coming from the North-Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Sir, they have sent me to tell the House that there are four bridges on the Solwezi/Chingola Road. There is a bridge called Lunga. So, the PF should watch out because the people are not happy. 

Sir, there are also bridges on the Kifubwa River, Solwezi River and the Mutanda River. You can access Mutanda River as you come from Kalumbila. The Patriotic Front Government must be cognisant of the fact that the people of the North-Western Province are not happy. The legitimate question is: Why are the people not happy? They are not happy because their taking of the Mufumbwe seat is a mockery, to say the least. There was the first by-election in Mufumbwe and they produced an hon. Member of Parliament whom they are now alleging was fired by the former Secretary-General for the PF, and not the Patriotic Front Government as a collective entity. This is disgraceful. 

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front Government told the people of Solwezi that they were going to get a modern market and bus stop in Solwezi. They were also promised that 205 km of township roads were going to be tarred. Hon. Kambwili, the Minister of Youth and Sport, requested for an increase of 67 km, but this has not been done to date. 

Sir, the people of North-Western Province are languishing in dust. If there is any area where there is dust it is Solwezi.

Mr Antonio: Even Mangango.

Mr Mwanza: Maybe, there are trees in Mangango. 

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, in the North-Western Province, there is a lot of dust. It is not fair to keep the people who are in an area that produces the largest amount of copper in poverty while you improve other areas. This is why the people of Solwezi are very annoyed. Unless something is done, they will secede.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, secondly, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

You are trading a very dangerous line. You are an hon. Member of Parliament and you swore to uphold the Constitution. Therefore, you should be the last person to advocate that. With that reminder, continue with your debate.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that guidance. I would like to state that in the Lumwana area, there is very little development. The market there is nothing to talk about. The hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Minerals Development debated loudly that the North-Western Province has a big budget but, to date, Lumwana District Hospital has remained unlit because the Patriotic Front Government has neglected the North-Western Province for a long time, as it did not vote for it. This is not right. 

Mr Speaker, I would also like to talk about the violence in the PF.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, this is very serious because it relates to the Ruling Party.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: The Ruling Party …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, order!

I thought the hon. Members on the right were going to be more attentive.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.

Mr Mwanza: … must lead by example.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: However, what is happening in the PF is a disgrace, to say the least.

Hon. Opposition Members: Malama.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: No wonder they are quarreling with the press over the coverage of the Official Opening of Parliament because they feared that if there came a …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this very …

The Deputy Chairperson: I made an order earlier that there would be no more points of order. So, sorry my dear.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, the President, in his Speech, talked about equity of development …

Mr Livune: That is right!

Mr Mwanza: … and thus ensuring that whatever is happening in Muchinga Province should also happen in the North-Western Province and elsewhere.

Mr Hamududu: Southern.

Mr Mwanza: However, this is not what is happening. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: We heard Hon. Namugala yesterday confirm that her constituency is not receiving a fair share of the developments that are taking place in other parts of the country.

Mr Mwila: Question!

Mr Nkombo: Why?

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, this, again, is unfortunate. I have nothing to fear because I am a seasoned and old politician. So, I know what I am talking about.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: I have held very high positions both in Parliament …

Mr Mtolo: That is right.

Mr Mwanza: … and the private sector.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: So, I am not a pushover.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: I will say things as they are …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: … so that you should know that I mean business.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member, desist from debating yourself.

Interruptions

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, the last point I want to raise is on the President’s health. I feel very sad to talk about this. In fact, the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) has given guidance to the people of Zambia on how to debate this matter. However, what surprises me, the people of Solwezi and the North-Western Province …

Mr Livune: And Parliament.

Mr Mwanza: … and us, here, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza: … is that no senior person from the Patriotic Front Government has come up to say that the President is unwell.

Mr Mwale: That is how they are.

Interruptions 

Mr Mwanza: Nevertheless, we have seen that the President is not well. We know his voice. Some people are saying that we should emulate the example of the President because even when he is sick, he is able to work. That is contrary to a good work culture. When someone is sick, he/she must stay away from work.  

Hon. Opposition Members: He should retire.                          

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, there is a very specific procedure regarding the removal of the President in Article 38 of the Constitution of Zambia that states that: 

“If the office of President becomes vacant by reason of his death or by reason of his ceasing to hold office by virtue of Article 36, 37 or 88, …”

Hon. Government Members: Where is the vacancy?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You have volumes I and II of the President’s Speech. So, I hope you have gone through them very carefully. With that reminder, you may continue.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, I am actually very familiar with the information in those volumes of the Speech. However, having said that, I think it is only fair for the Patriotic Front Government to state that the President is unwell so that we can pray for him.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: Like I said yesterday, he is not the President for the PF but also for the Zambian people. Therefore, we all have a stake in his welfare. 

With these few remarks, I wish to thank you, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Namulambe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to debate on the Motion on the Floor. The President’s Speech for the Official Opening at the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly covered various key issues such as the country’s political, economic, social situation and international relations, among others. This is as a result of the efforts of the Patriotic Front Government to foster sustained development in the nation.

Mr Speaker, before I go further, I wish to join my other colleagues who have spoken before me in expressing my heartfelt condolences to the House and the family of the late Hon. Dr Patrick Chikusu. At the same time, may I welcome all the newly-elected hon. Members of Parliament to the House.

Mr Speaker, coming back to the President’s Speech, I wish to acknowledge that practical issues were articulated that this Government has implemented towards making Zambia a better place to live in, not only for its nationals, but also for those outsiders that want to work and invest with us to grow our economy and mutually share the benefits of our collective hard work. Going by the contents of the President’s Speech with regard to the country’s Foreign Policy and international relations, His Excellency the President reaffirmed the Government’s continued commitment to uphold the fundamental principles of sovereignty, equality and mutual respect as a basis of our engagement with other members of the international community. Consequently, my ministry will continue to participate in regional and international meetings such as United Nations (UN), African Union (AU), Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) and the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) in order to advance Zambia’s national interests.

Mr Speaker, in our effort to implement Zambia’s Foreign Policy, the Government has continued to maintain and enhance diplomatic and economic relations with other countries. The Government has, therefore, continued to prioritise the use of economic diplomacy as demonstrated by the opening of the new strategic economic missions whose focus is to serve as anchors for increased trade and investment flows to Zambia. For instance, a mission was recently opened in the Republic of South Korea based on the same strategic principles.

Mr Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to inform the House that the ministry has finalised the revision of the National Foreign Policy. This policy has since been approved by the Cabinet and, soon, the hon. Minister will issue a ministerial statement to this House so that the hon. Members of this House are apprised of the contents of the new Foreign Policy.

Mr Speaker, my ministry is also in the process of formulating a Diaspora Policy to provide a framework for engaging the Zambian Diaspora in the development of our country. This is the first time that Zambia will be putting in place such a policy mechanism.

Mr Speaker, October is a very important month for all of us Zambians, as we will be commemorating the country’s Golden Jubilee. The international community admires the peace, unity and stability that we have continued to enjoy as a nation. It has not been easy to unite all the seventy-three tribes, and I am sure many countries will continue to admire our status quo. For this reason, we ought to ensure that we guard the peace that we have enjoyed jealously. This is a once in a lifetime moment, and so, we should put aside all our political affiliations and ensure that all of us, as Zambians, celebrate this day together.

Mr Speaker, I wondered why an hon. Member here, in his debate, said that one of the provinces in this nation has been nicknamed the Western Province, and yet Zambia has always been, and will continue to be a Unitary State. Such divisive debates can plunge this country into chaos and disturb the peace that we have continued to enjoy. I stated earlier that many countries admire the peace that we enjoy as a nation. If people feel that they are not part and parcel of Zambia, I wonder why they sit in this House.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: This House is composed of 150 elected Members of Parliament who are from the ten provinces of Zambia, the Western Province inclusive. So, if a person feels that the name Western Province is a nickname, I would be the happiest person to see that person walk out of the House and say that he/she is no longer part and parcel of this House. So, such statements are divisive and we should condemn them at all times.

Sir, last Sunday, I was invited to a golf tournament between the Bembas and the Ngonis. What I saw there was unity of purpose. The two tribal groups were promoting unity. From the speeches that were read, they stated that Zambian sport should unite us and that the cousinship that we enjoy among tribes should serve as beacons of stability in our nation and foster the peace that we enjoy.

Mr Speaker, about a month ago, when I was coming the North-Western Province where I am a Deputy Chief – I am Deputy Chief Kanongesha, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

The Deputy Chairperson: Is that part of the speech from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: I am just reminding you that you are reading a prepared text and I do not know if it is the policy of the ministry to talk about your status in your chiefdom. 

You may continue.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I am now trying to respond to some of the issues that have been raised and statements made that this Government is not doing anything. On my way from my chiefdom, I passed through one area in Solwezi West where the citizenry asked me to inform this august House that the people there had no one to represent them and so, maybe, they should get the hon. Ministers to air their grievances.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Namulambe: As such, …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Minister, let us not debate each other. If you have finished reading your text, there is honour in winding up.

Mr Namulambe: Yes, Mr Speaker. 

Sir, we have a Government in place. As such, when issues of development are expressed in the House, it is important that we ask ourselves whether or not we have been to the relevant ministries to ask that which the people are asking about. I say so because people have lamented various issues, and yet a lot of projects are implemented in various ministries. However, they do not know at what level the projects are. So, it is important that they visit the relevant ministries. It is good to speak, but it is also important that, as we speak and lament various issues, we also ask ourselves what we, as individuals, have done in trying to stir such development in our respective areas.

Sir, there is also a need to examine what the Government has planned in relation to the Yellow Book. Zambia is our country. It is for all of us. We need to maintain unity. For this reason, I want to request all political parties, Zambians, including those that have come to settle in Zambia to all turn up in numbers and celebrate the fifty years of Independence collectively and enjoy ourselves. From there, we can map out our strategies on how to move forward, as a nation, by maintaining this peace and developing our country. We cannot see development if the country is not at peace. We can pray hard and repent of our sins, but we can only develop our areas if the country is at peace. So, let us continue to guard our peace jealously because many countries across the world admire Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lingweshi rose.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: I have called upon the hon. Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

Mr Lingweshi resumed his seat.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development Mother and Child Health (Ms Kazunga): Mr Speaker, may I begin by expressing my appreciation to you for allowing me to contribute to the debate on the Motion of Thanks.

Sir, before I do that, I also wish to extend my condolences to the Chikusu family and to this House. I also wish to congratulate the newly-elected hon. Members of Parliament, especially the womenfolk. I know that it is not easy to emerge victorious in these campaigns as a woman.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Ms Kazunga: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that it feels good when a woman wins an election. We have this good feeling now because of the victory of the two newly-elected female Parliamentarians.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, I would like to echo the sentiments of other hon. Members of Parliament who have spoken before me by saying that the President’s Speech was very inspiring and has provided an opportunity for the people of Zambia to reflect on where we are coming from and plan where we want Zambia to be in the next fifty years.

Mr Speaker, the President, in his Speech to Parliament, committed the Government to moving this country forward decisively towards the eradication of poverty and under development. He emphasised that the Government is firmly of the view that meaningful economic transformation is fundamental to our collective prosperity as a nation. Indeed, the country has continued to post robust economic growth in excess of 6 per cent since the PF assumed office.

Mr Speaker, in the area of social protection, the President indicated that in order to cushion the high levels of poverty in the country, the Government has adopted a comprehensive Social Protection Policy aimed at providing the life cycle benefits to our citizens. The Government will also introduce legislation on national social protection which shall provide a framework for pension, social health insurance and social safety nets.

The President, in his Speech to Parliament, indicated that the process to expand the Social Cash Transfer Scheme to cover the whole country is underway. I am pleased to inform the House that thirty-one more districts have been brought on board, bringing the total number of beneficiary districts to fifty in 2014. To this effect, the Government has increased the allocation to the Social Cash Transfer Scheme. This increment has seen the number of beneficiary households increase from 63,000 in 2013 to 145,000 as of August, this year. Of these, 20,000 are persons living with disabilities, signifying their importance to the Government’s policy of social inclusion. The programme is expected to benefit about 500,000 households by 2016.

Mr Speaker, under agricultural development, the President stated that the Government’s strategic focus in the agriculture sector is to achieve food security, promote crop diversification as well as increase productivity and value addition. As a nation, we have continued to register significant growth in the crop sub-sector. The President also mentioned that this year alone, the country achieved a record maize harvest of 3.4 million metric tonnes due to the enabling policies of the Government, hard work of our farmers and favourable weather conditions.

Mr Speaker, the President, in his Speech, stated that the Government continues to give priority to national food security by increasing and upgrading storage capacity throughout the country. In this regard, the Government has invested a total of K108.5 million to upgrade twenty-seven sheds with a total storage capacity of 117,000 metric tonnes. Eight of these sheds have already been completed whilst nineteen will be completed by the end of this year.

Mr Speaker, on gender and child development, the President stated that the Government will ensure gender equity in the development process. In this regard, the Patriotic Front Government has appointed and maintained a high number of the womenfolk in leadership and decision-making positions. He went further to encourage the womenfolk to stand up and be counted, for there is still more room for our participation in the leadership of this country. The President also talked about the importance of preventing and addressing issues of gender-based violence and child abuse.

Mr Speaker, with regard to democracy and good governance, the President indicated that the Government remains committed to promoting democracy and good governance. These are fundamental to the creation, securing and maintenance of a just Zambia.

Sir, in winding up my contribution, may I state that His Excellency the President reaffirmed the Government’s commitment to finalise and introduce legislation in Parliament that would govern customary land in the country. In this regard, he informed this House that once legislation on the Customary Land administration Bill is enacted, it will ensure that the interests of local people in the rural farming communities are protected and promoted; a move that my ministry welcomes, as it will alleviate the suffering of many poor people in this country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lingweshi (Mangango): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for according me an opportunity to read my maiden speech.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, before I deliver my speech to this august House, I want to clear the air, or might I say dust, on a certain issue. I have heard some hon. Members of this august House say that there was rigging in the Mangango By-election. That is not true.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, it is only that when God has chosen someone, it becomes very difficult for anyone to set His plans asunder.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear, Lingweshi!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, allow me to …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Lingweshi: … thank my God who enabled me to win the just-ended by-election. This seat was given to me by God.

Laughter

Mr Lingweshi: Let me also thank His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, for the support, both physically and materially, rendered to me during the by-election.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Let me further thank His Honour the Vice-President, Dr Guy Scott, for campaigning for me from station to station until the end of the by-election which I won.

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Quality!

Mr Lingweshi: Forgive me, Mr Speaker, I think I have misplaced my papers (rummaging through his papers).

Laughter

Mr Lingweshi: I did not put the papers in order.

Help me put my papers in order. 

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, order! 

The hon. Member is re-organising his papers.

Laughter

Mr Mwale: There is a page missing (organising the papers).

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, I thank the former Secretary-General of our party, Mr Kabimba, SC., …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: … who was there for me in the by-election.

Interruptions

Mr Lingweshi: I also thank all the hon. Ministers, … 

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, on my right!

Mr Lingweshi: … provincial party officials and all the district officials for making it easy for me to win the elections. Finally, I would like to thank the people of Mangango, from Kanjimba to Kaba Hill, for electing me their Member of Parliament.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: I appreciate the privilege they have accorded me to be their Member of Parliament. 

Mr Speaker, I am also grateful to my brother, …

Mr Livune: Chiseke.
 
Mr Lingweshi: … Hon. Taundi Chiseke, the former Member of Parliament for Mangango, for his support and for …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: … campaigning for me throughout the campaigns.

Mr Speaker, I pledge to work for the people of Mangango Constituency in fostering development, as promised during the campaigns.

Mr Speaker, let me outline the following wards …

Hon. Mwaliteta interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Member for Kafue, take leave.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: … which need the attention of the Government, as per promise during the just- ended by-elections that were won by the Patriotic Front (PF). These are: Shikombwa, Kanjimba, Namimbwe, Kalamba, Chilombo and Kazabami. These areas need water reticulation, staff houses and rural health centres. Kanabilumbu, Mangango, Kapili, Mushwalaluambuwa and Namafulo wards have similar problems.

Mr Speaker, Mangango, like other constituencies, is behind in terms of development, as it has been neglected from time immemorial.

Mr Speaker, the people of Mangango Constituency are happy with the Patriotic Front Government because …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: … the Katunda/Lukulu Road via Watopa is going to be tarred … 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: … for the first time. In the past, not even a feasibility study was carried out for this road.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: Working Government.

Mr Lingweshi: The first survey for this road from Katunda to Lukulu has commenced.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: According to the contract – this is where I want the hon. Members of the House to pay attention …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Lingweshi!

Mr Lingweshi: … – that was signed on 26th November, 2013, between the Road Development Agency (RDA) and East Consult Limited, in association with Knight Peacehold, the project will cost a total of K6,369,792 and will be completed in 2014.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Feasibility studies.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, I am talking about the feasibility study which is at its initial stage. You cannot climb a tree from the leaves.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Lingweshi!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, the tendering process is envisaged to commence in 2015. This is what we can dwell on if we want to debate. 

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Yes!

Mr Lingweshi: However, the commencement of the works will depend on the availability of funds.

Mr Mutelo: Ooh!

Mr Lingweshi: This is outrightly clear. 

Mr Speaker, the people of Mangango are hopeful that the Patriotic Front Government is going to have the road tarred.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, on the electrification of the constituency from Katunda to Mayukwayukwa, the pegging has already been done. Soon, the wiring, joining Mukunkike to Chief Mwene Mutondo Palace and Mangango to Nyango where we have got plenty of buildings which we want to turn into a training school later, is going to be done. The Zambia National Service and all the primary schools along the community and other institutions will be connected too.

Mr Speaker, all that I can humbly request is that our Government should ensure that the projects are completed.

Mr Speaker, on agriculture, farmers in Mangango have appreciated the Government’s efforts, through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), of buying their maize on time.

Mr Kazabu: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, the D-Compound fertiliser has already reached Kaoma …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: …  and is ready for distribution.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, with the arrival of urea fertiliser in the country, farmers are sure to get it in time for the farming season.

Mr Speaker, I am happy to inform this august House that some of my farmers …

Mr Sing’ombe: Yours?

Laughter

Mr Lingweshi: … have been paid by the FRA and …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: … are ready to purchase inputs for the 2014/2015 farming season.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, a bird in hand is worth more than a hundred in the bush.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Lingweshi!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, in education, the shortage of teacher’s accommodation and classrooms will be resolved as per our promise to the people during the just-ended by-election. I know that the Government cannot solve all the problems at once.

Mr Sing’ombe: Aah!

Mr Lingweshi: I am urging the Government, therefore, to construct, at least, one teacher’s house and classroom block in each ward.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: I think this will be done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, at Nyango, the former Namibian Refugee Camp houses need urgent rehabilitation so that it can be turned into a trades, nursing or teacher training school. There is plenty of running water from Nyango stream and land which can be utilised for anything.

Mr Speaker, I humbly request the Government to go and see this place since it will soon be electrified.

Mr Speaker, the people of Mangango Constituency are requesting the Government to expand Mangango Mission Hospital to cater for the rising population. This hospital was built in 1939. At the time, the population was very small compared to what it is today, hence the request for its expansion. 

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear! Quality!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, I would be the happiest hon. Member of Parliament if my people’s request could be included in the 2015 Budget.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, in the remotest areas of the constituency, the people are requesting for the increase of health centres and drilling of boreholes. My constituents are worried about their lack of access to clean drinking water. While a few boreholes have been drilled in the constituency, more water points still need to be drilled.

Hon. Member: Yes!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, let me outline the challenges the people of Mangango Constituency are facing. They include the following:

(i)    Education

Mr Speaker, education infrastructure is not adequate enough to cater for the number of teachers, forcing some of them to share rooms. Classroom space for pupils is also not enough. 

Mr Speaker, the remedy is to construct or expand the existing structures for both the teachers’ accommodation and classroom blocks. 

(ii)    Provision of Clean Water

Mr Speaker, people in some of the villages do not have clean water due to the non-availability of boreholes. The remedy is to identify the communities without clean water and drill boreholes for them.

Mr Speaker, I request the able hon. Ministers of Local Government …

Mrs Kabanshi crossed the Floor.

Hon. Members: Order, order!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, I request the able hon. Ministers of Local Government and Housing, Community Development, Mother and Child Health, and Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to attend to these challenges of the people of Mangango.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, …

Hon. Members: Aah!

Mr Chabala: Continue.

Laughter

Mr Lingweshi: … allow me to thank the people of Mangango Constituency, once again, for electing me their Member of Parliament. I assure them that I shall do my best to advocate for the development of the area. I, therefore, request the people of Mangango to give a chance to the Government to deliver on its promises.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, I urge my party, the PF, to ensure that the promises that we made to our people are met so that our party becomes even more popular in Mangango Constituency and we emerge victorious in 2016.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, the people of Mangango are committed to supporting the PF in 2016.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, all that the people of Mangango Constituency want is development in their area.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, let me end by congratulating the hon. Members of Parliament for Zambezi West, Vubwi, Mkushi South, Solwezi Central and Kasenengwa constituencies …

Ms Kalima: Hear, hear!

Mr Lingweshi: … who won the last round of parliamentary by-elections. I urge them to concentrate on fostering the development of their areas. 

Mr Speaker, finally, let me thank you and the whole august House for your kind attention. May the Good Lord bless you all.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mwimba H. Malama): Mr Speaker, …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us consult less loudly, please.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to contribute to debate on the Speech delivered by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, during the Official Opening of the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, allow me to also thank my fellow hon. Members of Parliament who have taken the Floor in support of the Speech delivered by His Excellency the President. I believe that the President has laid a firm foundation for achieving the priorities set by the Patriotic Front Government for 2015.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, it is also our time to try to respond to what hon. Members were debating in this House. It is sad, however, that when we start to respond, I can only see very few Members on your left when we expected them to be here so that they could listen like we did.

Mr Livune: You cannot see me?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, my contribution is limited to infrastructure development projects as pronounced by His Excellency the President in his speeches to this august House. In the last three years that the PF Government has been in office, those of us in Government and those in the Opposition have witnessed increased construction activities in the area of roads, Government buildings and other transport-related infrastructure across this vast country. 

Mr Speaker, let me pose a question here. When, if ever, did we experience such kind of development in the fifty-year history of our country?

Hon. Government Member: Now!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: We are here to develop our great country in line with our pro-poor policies. 

Sir, the creation of new districts …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: … has not only enhanced the decentralised delivery of services in our country that have provided an opportunity of about 80 per cent of our works to go to local contractors for them to participate in economic development and, in turn, create employment for youths.

Mr Livune: Where? It is a serious cost.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, this is not just a song, but something that is happening. When we say that we are working, we are not joking.

Hon. Government Member: We mean serious business.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, when people on your left stand on the Floor of this House and begin to say that there is nothing happening, sometimes, we wonder whether we are in the same country.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, even their supporters are coming to us in private to appreciate what we are doing. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: This is the more reason we have started winning by-elections.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: The people of Zambia have started to appreciate our works.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: One Member on the left stood and said that nothing is taking place in the Western Province. Mr Speaker, this Government has created more than eight districts in the Western Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, we are going to build infrastructure in all the newly- created districts and the projects are at procurement stage. We have started awarding contracts to local contractors who are going to develop this nation. We cannot afford to continue empowering foreign investors. For example, in the Southern Province, we have new districts such as Chikankata, Pemba, Zimba and Kazungula.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, in all these districts, we are going to build the following: 

(a)    twenty low cost houses;

(b)    ten medium cost houses;

(c)    police stations with ten houses;

(d)    two high cost houses;

(e)    post offices;

(f)    office blocks; and

(g)    district councils.

Mr Speaker, for the first time, the Government will build infrastructure in the new districts. This is not a small achievement …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, let us learn to appreciate when people are working.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, to the people from the Western Province, let me say that we are also crying for the same development they want in their new districts. For example, Mpika is the biggest district in terms of size. We are still praying hard so that we can also be given, at least, three districts in Mpika District because Mpika District is almost as big as Luapula Province.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Minister, bear in mind that you are debating as the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. Bear that in mind as you read your speech, and I hope you are reading.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, we have created Limulunga, Sioma, Nkeyema, Luampa, Mitete, Mwandi, Mulobezi, Nalolo and Sikongo districts in the Western Province. In total, nine new districts have been created in the Western Province. However, the people of the Western Province are complaining that they cannot see development. What do they want this Government to do? We also want the same development that they want. I have been here for quite some time and used to sit there and ‘cry’ for the road called Nabwalya Road to be constructed. I am still waiting for this road to be constructed. Sometimes, I hear people say that we are taking development to Bemba-speaking land. That statement is not correct. 

Mr Speaker, in the last three years that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has been in office, those of us in the Government and those in the Opposition have witnessed increased construction activities in the area of roads, Government buildings and other transport-related infrastructure across this vast country. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, let me also state that the creation of new districts has not only enhanced the decentralised delivery of services in our country, but also provided an opportunity for 80 per cent of works to go to local contractors so that our people can also benefit from the same money which your hon. Members of Parliament on your left think that we are only giving to Chinese contractors.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication has already signed contracts to ensure that the construction of Government infrastructure in the new districts commences before the end of this year. This demonstrates our commitment to ensuring that we provide opportunities for local companies to contribute to national development.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the issue of roads, I am aware that our colleagues from the Opposition have continued to argue that the Patriotic Front Government is implementing road projects that were initiated by the previous Government. This is not true. 

I appreciate their predicament. However, for the twenty years that the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) was in Government, its concentration was on planning. There were no concrete results. We, on the other hand, are concerned with delivery and proof is there that we are delivering the road projects. I need not repeat the number of roads that we have worked on in the three years that we have been in Government. They are there for all of us to see. 

Mr Speaker, yesterday, one of my colleagues on your left said that nothing is happening in Monze. This Government, apart from taking development to areas where it is heavily supported, is working on the Niko/Monze Road. We know very well that hon. Members of Parliament belonging to the United Party for National Development (UPND) have been ‘crying’ for this road. It has only taken this Government under the leadership of Michael Chilufya Sata, three years to start upgrading the road which our colleagues have been talking about. Today, machines are busy working on that road. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: All those travelling from Mazabuka to Namwala will not have to pass through Choma. This has been done under three years. Our colleagues should learn to give credit where it is due.  

Interruptions

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, our colleagues, the MMD, started working on the Bottom Road at a very slow pace on the Siavonga side. When we realised the importance of this road, we looked for another contractor to begin constructing it from the other end so that the stretch could be worked on within a very short time.

Mr Speaker, we all know that this Government does not have a single Member of Parliament from the Southern Province.

Interruptions

Mr Livune: Question!

Hon. Opposition Members: Livingstone!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: I beg your pardon, Mr Speaker. 

Laughter 

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: We were given this responsibility from the time we won the election. At the time of elections, Livingstone belonged to the Opposition. However, since we have worked hard, the people of Livingstone changed their minds ... 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: … and gave us one hon. Member.  

Therefore, we will not only concentrate in areas where we have majority support, but also ensure that development is delivered to all parts of the country. 

Mr Speaker, in order to ensure that we preserve the roads that are being constructed, the Government is implementing the Road Tolling Programme which will help to provide resources which will be ploughed back into road construction and maintenance. We want the roads to be well-maintained and safe for users. 

Still on roads, I want to state that we are doing a lot in Mafinga District. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mafinga District will never be the same again. Unlike the PF, the MMD had planned to work on only 90 km of the Isoka/Muyombe Road. This Government, however, ….

Mr Kambwili: Baleyangala fye!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: … is saying that the people of Mafinga deserve a lot of development and this is what we are providing. It is like this is the first time that they are having a Government that cares.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, in the same vein, the Government has prioritised the rehabilitation of railway infrastructure as can be seen from the investments that have been made in the Zambia Railways Limited. Today, the railway link between Chipata in Zambia and the Port of Nacala in Mozambique is operational after many years of neglect. 

Sir, the Patriotic Front Government has also revitalised the Mulobezi Railway Line.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: These links will enhance the competitiveness of Zambia and contribute to job and wealth creation for the Zambian people. 

Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front Government has also set the development of the maritime sector on top of its agenda. The Government will continue to facilitate the clearing and maintenance of canals. 

Hon. Opposition Member interjected.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: This Government is committed to ensuring that the complaints of many people come to an end. I wish to end by saying …

Mr Livune: North-Western!

Laughter 

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: I wish to end by saying that this nation, …

Mr Pande: North-Western!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: … like Hon. Shakafuswa said, belongs to all of us. Our brothers and sisters from around Lusaka, the Solis, Lenjes and all those who own land around Lusaka, should appreciate …

Interruptions 

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: I am responding to Hon. Shakafuswa’s statement that the capital city has a bigger population, hence the demand for traditional land around Lusaka. 

Hon. Government Member: Malama.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: It is important that the indigenous people stop selling land to those who approach them to buy it. It must also be appreciated that when Lusaka was made the capital of Zambia, we were not there. If we were asked now where to put up the capital city, we may not have picked Lusaka. I say this because we all come from areas that we think have better land than Lusaka. We shall not tolerate someone who tells us to go back to our places of origin because Zambia belongs to all of us.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: The fact that one belongs to this area does not mean that those coming from Mfuwe or any other place have no say over this land. I want to end by saying that Zambia and its wealth belong to all of us. This is why the Government is distributing wealth to all parts of this country …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: … regardless of how people voted. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Quality!

The Deputy Minister for Eastern Province (Mr Sichone): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate on behalf of the people of the Eastern Province and Isoka.  

Mr Speaker, may I join His Excellency the President Mr Michael Chilufya Sata in wishing Zambia a happy fiftieth anniversary this month. Happy birthday young Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichone: Mr Speaker, I wish to congratulate the freedom fighters on the gallant and visionary approach they took to liberate this country. I must declare that I am a born free citizen, …

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!

Mr Sichone: … which means that I was born after Independence.

Sir, all those that are saying they will boycott the Jubilee Celebrations this month …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

ADJOURNMENT 

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to. 

The House adjourned at 1915 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 9th October, 2014.