Debates - Thursday, 16th October, 2014 | National Assembly of Zambia

DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 16th October, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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RULING BY MR SPEAKER

POINT OF ORDER RAISED BY MR G. NKOMBO, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MAZABUKA CENTRAL PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY ON THE MINISTER OF JUSTICE AND MINISTER OF DEFENCE, HON. E. LUNGU, MP, REGARDING THE ALLEGED BREACH OF THE FUNDAMENTAL FREEDOM OF ASSEMBLY AND ASSOCIATION

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I have a ruling to render, and this is in connection with the point of order raised by Hon. G. Nkombo, Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central.

Hon. Members, on Tuesday, 7th October, 2014, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 128, on the Order Paper asked by the hon. Member for Bwacha Parliamentary Constituency, Hon. S. Mushanga, MP, and the hon. Member for Chadiza Parliamentary Constituency, Hon. A. Mbewe, MP, was asking a supplementary question, the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, Hon. G. Nkombo raised a point of order, and the relevant part of the point of order reads as follows:

“Sir, my point of order hinges on the security of the citizens of this country, and what I may call a breach of the Constitution of Zambia. Article 21(1) of the Constitution states:

‘Except with his own consent, a person shall not be hindered in the enjoyment of freedom of assembly and association. That is to say, his right to assemble freely and associate with other persons and in particular, to form or belong to any political party, trade union or other association to the protection of his interests.’

Sir, we have a report that yesterday, while the hon. Minister of Justice who is also the hon. Minister of Defence, and Secretary-General of the Ruling Patriotic Front (PF) party was addressing a meeting of his political party members in the Livingstone City Council Chamber, violence broke out. At the same venue, the hon. Provincial Minister and Provincial Party Chairperson, Mr Daniel Munkombwe, was traumatised and threatened with physical violence, while the legislator for the constituency, Hon. Lawrence Evans, was left in tears, which he could not hold back, as he watched his party members beat up a Mrs Mate in their usual manner. Is the PF Government, through the hon. Minister of Justice, and Defence, in order to continue making their citizens uneasy and nervous by not respecting the fundamental human rights of people to assemble and express their feelings, and to be violent in a Government building like the Livingstone City Council Chamber? Is the party in order to continue governing this country with such violent tendencies that make them seem to be entertained by the same when it can cause serious difficulties for us if left unchecked?

Hon. Members, in his immediate remarks, the Hon. Deputy Speaker, who was in the Chair at the time the point of order was raised, reserved the ruling, indicating to the House that he needed to study the point of order. The point of order has since been studied and I now wish to render the following ruling:

Hon. Nkombo’s point of order is requesting the Chair to rule on whether the Government is in order to continue breaching the citizens’ fundamental human rights or freedom of assembly and association.

Hon. Members will recall that on 12th March, 2012, I rendered a ruling in a matter where Hon. G. Nkombo, MP, raised a point of order in relation to the decision by the police to deny the citizens of the Southern Province the right to assemble and associate. In the ruling referred to above, I did observe that the freedom of assembly is one of our precious fundamental human rights. Everyone is entitled to meet and assemble with fellow citizens to discuss their affairs and to promote their views so long as it is not done to propagate violence or to do anything unlawful. Furthermore, in the same ruling, I pointed out that Article 28 of the Constitution provides the legal mechanism for seeking redress whenever it is alleged that any of the fundamental rights and freedoms have been infringed or are likely to be infringed.

In light of the provisions of Article 28 of the Constitution, I indicated in the same ruling that whenever any person is aggrieved on matters relating to enjoyment of their fundamental rights and freedoms, recourse ought to be had to the High Court of Zambia as stipulated under Article 28(1) of the Constitution of Zambia. Ultimately, I ruled that the Legislature is not suitable or qualified to make pronouncements on alleged violations of fundamental rights and freedoms.

Furthermore, hon. Members will recall that on Thursday, 14th November, 2013, I rendered a ruling on a point of order raised by Hon. Mweetwa, Member of Parliament for Choma Central. At page 14 of the ruling, I indicated that my duty is to interpret the Constitution only in so far as it relates to the functions and operations of the House. I went on to point out that it is not my duty to interpret and adjudicate upon general points of law or, indeed, other technical legalities of interpretation. And it is also not my duty to proffer or offer general legal counsel.

I thank you.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF CHIPILI DISTRICT HEADQUARTERS STAFF HOUSES

172. Mr Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) when construction of staff houses at Chipili District headquarters would be completed;

(b) what challenges, if any, the Government had encountered in completing the project; and

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the ministry commenced the construction of 180 houses in seventeen newly-created districts, including Chipili, at a cost of K73,203,701.12, in line with its mandate to provide affordable and comfortable housing to all citizens. The construction of the houses in Chipili, whose completion period is twelve months, commenced on 23rd September, 2013. However, there has been a variation on the new completion dates. The expected new completion date is 30th January, 2015.

Mr Speaker, the timely completion of the project has been affected due to the delay in the release of funds by the Treasury and also siting problems at the commencement stage of the project. However, K362,855.26 advance payment was paid to the contractor.

Mr Speaker, the Government is not satisfied with the progress of the project as its completion period is behind schedule.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to tell the people of Chipili whether the plan his ministry has put in place to construct infrastructure in new districts will actually come to fruition. It is now a year and nothing is happening. Can you tell me why.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure the people of Chipili, through their hon. Member of Parliament, that the Government is committed to completing putting up infrastructure in all newly-created districts. We are budgeting for these projects every year and this should assure all hon. Members of Parliament in whose constituencies these construction activities are taking place that the Government is committed to completing them.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, in his own admission, one hundred and seventy-something houses are supposed to be constructed in all the newly-created districts. Hon. Minister, how come not a single stone has been laid in Limulunga, which is one of the newly-created districts? Is there some sort of discrimination?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, I am reluctant to comment on that particular district because I am aware that construction of the housing units in the newly-created districts is at different stages.

Also, allow me to set the record straight. The number of houses is not actually seventy-three, but 180 in seventeen districts and their cost is K73 million. The Government is committed to constructing these houses. This is the plan and if in that particular district works have not yet started, it means that they are at a stage before construction begins.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Deputy Minister be very clear on this matter. When will the project commence?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should have been paying attention when I was providing the answer to part (a) of the question.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: He was sleeping.

Mr N. Banda: I indicated that construction of houses in Chipili District commenced on 23rd September, 2013.

Hon. Government Members: Repeat that.

Laughter

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, I wish to repeat that construction of the houses in Chipili District commenced on 23rd September, 2013. The completion period for the project was twelve months. However, it has been extended to January, 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, in his response to part (c) of the question, the hon. Minister said that the Government was not satisfied with the progress of the project. I would like to find out from him what assurance he is giving the people of Chipili that construction will be completed within the given period.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, it is important to inform this august House that the Government has prioritised completion of the already-started projects, and so, the assurance is given.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I think the problem that the Government has in completing these houses has to do with inertia on the part of the contractors. They have been citing not being paid on time. Can you confirm that, perhaps, one of the reasons the construction of the houses is not on schedule is that you are not paying them adequately or you are not paying them at all?

Hon. Opposition Member: The Government is broke.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, in my response to part (b) of the question, I indicated that the timely completion of the project has been affected by the delay in the release of funds by the Treasury.

Hon. Member: Lubinda is not listening.

Mr N. Banda: Further, for the same project, K362,855 has already been advanced to the contractor. In certain circumstances, contractors could have received their payments late, but the Government will continue to release the funds so that the projects are completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda interjected.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, we are happy that works have started in some of these newly-created districts although the contractors have not been paid on time. However, it is unfortunate that in some districts such as Limulunga, nothing has taken place so far.

Sir, can the hon. Minister confirm that the Government is having problems settling these payments because it is broke?

Laughter

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Mwale: Boma ilebe ndalama.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, firstly, I am not in a position to confirm that. Confirming whether the Government has got money or not is the mandate of the hon. Minister of Finance, and he has not come to this House to inform us that we are broke. We have enough resources budgeted for these projects.

Sir, secondly, that district he mentioned is not part of the question that I am responding to.

Laughter

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, it is also important for me to remind hon. Members of Parliament that these districts were created by His Excellency the President at different times. That must be taken into consideration because not all districts were created at the same time, hence the projects also started at different times.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, compared to others, at what stage is this project in Chipili, considering that the period in which it was supposed to be completed has elapsed? We need to know this so that we can measure the Government’s performance.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, works have reached a level where we have extended the completion time from September, 2014, to January, 2015. The works that will be done are at variance with the period which we have given ourselves.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question, as I understand it, refers to the physical stage.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the foundation was done, construction has started and some of the buildings are reaching widow level. They are at different levels, but none have reached roof level yet. Most of them are at slab level and we believe completion can be achieved within the period we have given ourselves.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, we are being told that these districts will be constructed in two stages. The first stage is supposed to take twelve months, but none of them have been completed yet. When will the second stage start because there is also a district in my constituency that has nothing?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the stages that the hon. Member is talking about do not apply in this project. It is the release of funds that is in stages, but the construction of the project is ongoing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I expect the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to answer this question because there are too many contradictions …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalomo Central, let me provide some guidance.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: For the time being, these questions are being answered by the hon. Deputy Minister. If the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, who is present, feels he needs to supplement, I am sure he will make that judgment.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, in the first instance, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili said that nothing has been done for a year and he wanted an assurance whether there was a commitment thereto. Your answer was that your commitment to complete the project is through the hon. Member of Parliament, but the project has not yet started. Next, you say that some parts of the project have reached slab level while others have reached window level …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Then you say that there are 180 houses for all the districts, but you have not mentioned how many houses are in Chipili.

Mr Speaker, what is the actual position of the district building in Chipili because the hon. Member of Parliament believes that nothing has been done?

Mr Mweetwa: Yes!

Mr Muntanga: Are you saying that the hon. Member of Parliament is not telling the truth? If not, how are we going to assure the people of Chipili, through him, even when there is nothing? What is the correct position?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should have listened attentively. In the answer I provided, I indicated that construction started. There are ten houses in the package of the housing units. What I said is that each house is at a different level. Within the ten housing units for Chipili, one could be at window level while the other house could still be at slab level. That is the situation unless the hon. Member would like my answer to be what he expects. What the Government knows is that the project has started and I have provided how much the Government has paid against the works that have been done.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, who are the contractors constructing staff houses at Chipili District Headquarters and has the hon. Minister visited the site?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, Amuti Zambia Limited is the contractor in Chipili …

Interruptions

Mr N. Banda: I have not personally visited the site, but we have four hon. Ministers within the ministry and one of us has visited the project. However, at the same time, we have monitoring teams on the ground. Therefore, we are sure of what we are talking about.

I thank you, Sir.

KATETE/MTELEZI/MSORO ROAD

173. Mr Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) when works on the Katete/Mtelezi/Msoro Road would commence;

(b) what the nature of the works to be carried out were;

(d) what the time frame for the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mwimba H. Malama): Mr Speaker, the upgrading of the Katete/Mtelezi/Msoro Road has been planned to commence in 2016. The nature of the works on this road will include upgrading it from gravel to bituminous standard. The procurement process will only commence upon completion of the design and that is when the contractor will be known. Currently, consultation services for the techno-economic study for the detailed engineering design and the tender document are being undertaken by Messrs Tank Project Solutions and will be completed in 2015.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker, if I can recall properly, early this year, the hon. Provincial Minister said, in this House, that the works on this road had started and I believe that this road is in Phase I. Today, you are telling us that the works will commence in 2016.

Laughter

Mr Phiri: Sir, why do we have this confusion?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, there is no confusion. Sometimes, hon. Members of Parliament do not understand what we say in this House. When I talk about the feasibility study, it means that works have actually started. The biggest problem is that we only believe that the works have started when we see the grader at the site. That is not the way things should be. At the moment, we are conducting feasibility studies so that we come up with designs. After the procurement process, we will know the contractor, the period that this work will take and the money that will be involved.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I have noticed that those Chinese who are working on the road in Chadiza are now not growing cabbage but working. That is very good. I have travelled on the Msoro Road and have noticed that there are some contractors on site, who are actually crushing stones. Is this part of this programme or those stones will be taken somewhere else?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm that. Stone crushing is allowed and can be found anywhere. If that is what those contractors are doing, it does not mean that they are using those stones to work on the road.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr W. Banda (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, how much money was put aside for this project?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I indicated that the amount of money for this project will be known after the feasibility study has been carried out in 2016.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, this is just a follow-up on the question that Hon. Banda asked. How much was set aside for the feasibility study so that we do not suspect that what the hon. Minister is saying is just a story?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I thought the hon. Member was talking about the main contractor. The money for the feasibility study is about K5.4 million.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, how many kilometres will be covered on this road?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, we will cover about 185 km.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, is K5.4 million for a feasibility study for a road that is already in existence not too much?

Interruptions

Mr Hamudulu: Yes!

Mr Speaker: It is a question.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, actually, the money is not too much.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

INTRODUCTION OF PUBLIC MEDICAL INSURANCE SCHEME

174. Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) whether the Government had any plans to introduce a public medical insurance scheme;

(b) if so, whether the scheme would benefit the poor and vulnerable people in rural areas; and

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to introduce a Public Medical Insurance Scheme (PMIS). This is in recognition of the need to move towards universal health coverage to achieve better health outcomes and develop a sound and sustainable health care financing strategy. The Government has undertaken to establish a pro-poor National Social Health Insurance (NSHI) Scheme. The need and rationale for its establishment has been included in our National Health Policy.

Mr Speaker, the proposed scheme will benefit the poor and vulnerable people in rural areas. The pro-poor scheme to be introduced by the Government is also one of the four pillars of the Zambian National Social Protection Policy (ZNSPP) that aims at providing sustainable security by tackling poverty and inequalities, helping reduce vulnerability and protect people from financial and other shocks. The scheme will, therefore, include a contributory Social Health Insurance as well as social assistance by the Government for those who are unable to contribute based on the principle of solidarity.

Mr Speaker, the delay has been caused by the fact that the process of establishing a National Social Health Insurance Scheme is an extremely complex multi-sectoral undertaking that is being guided by careful expert consideration and sequencing of a number of factors which include legal, financial sustainability, cost-containment, institutional arrangement, systems development, stakeholder consultations, research, sensitisation of the general public and provision of quality healthcare to all members.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that the Ministry of Health has developed a layman’s Draft Bill that is intended to provide the required legal framework for the establishment of the National Social Health Insurance Scheme.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, considering the complex nature of this problem, how soon should we expect the nation or the poor people to benefit from this programme?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, we have a layman’s draft Bill that will be presented before the Cabinet when it is ready. The period of implementation will depend on the response at that level.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Sir, the hon. Minister correctly indicated that this is a complex matter that requires a lot of research and consultation to look at its feasibility. Given that this is being undertaken, how has the Government come up with a layman’s draft Bill even before the feasibility is done and the viability of this insurance scheme is thought through? What is contained in that layman’s draft Bill because that ought to be informed by a clear and well-conducted feasibility study? I seek an explanation from the hon. Minister on that.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, that is what we have been doing for the last two years. The process has involved extensive research, wide consultations with various stakeholders and that has included Government ministries, international and local experts, co-operating partners, unions, civil society, private and public health providers, among others. Therefore, there is consensus with our social partners that the establishment of the Social Health Insurance Scheme would be a progressive step by the Government. So, this has been happening in the last two years and that is how we came up with a layman’s draft Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm the assertions that we have heard that this scheme that is being proposed is mainly for Public Service workers and not for the entire general population.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, that is not correct. What we are looking at is a Social Health Insurance Scheme that will cover the citizens of this country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the scheme is very welcome. However, I would like to find out how this scheme will be funded. Will it be solely funded by the Zambian Government or will the ministry look for co-operating partners? Bearing in mind that we have the Social Cash Transfer Scheme which was started by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government years back and has not been rolled out throughout the country, how will this be possible?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, there will be contributions from the workers and other participants that will participate in the scheme. Consultations have also been taking place with various stakeholders and generally there is a consensus. The unions and the other stakeholders have agreed on the mechanisms of funding this scheme. However, one of the sure ways is that of contributions from the participants.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I get the understanding that the Government wishes to introduce …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I am totally sorry for disturbing the hon. Member on the Floor. As we are considering a question on health matters with regard to the vulnerable people who are seemingly being sidelined with this scheme, the Ministry of Health is circulating information on cellular phones concerning Ebola. The message states:

“If you travelled to any Ebola affected country in the last month and developed signs and symptoms of Ebola, contact health authorities immediately by calling 909.”

Sir, is the Ministry of Health in order to only think of the people in the urban or peri-urban areas who have access to cellular phones, forgetting those in the rural areas where there is no network like in Washishi and to not send its health personnel to sensitise these people who may not have received this information through cellular phones? Some people in the rural areas could have equally travelled to Ebola-affected countries in the last month and may not be able to call the number 909.

I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: My serious ruling is that you must file in a question.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Can the hon. Member continue.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that they are planning to introduce a Health Insurance Scheme which means that those seeking to receive medical attention must pay insurance premiums to be able to access health facilities. Can the hon. Minister assure the people in remote places such Liuwa, …

Mr Mutelo: And Washishi.

Dr Musokotwane: … Lukena and Mbutunda which is next to Washishi, who live on less than one United States Dollar per day and cannot even afford to raise K1, that they will still be able to access medical attention?

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, I think it is very important for us to establish the fundamental principles that underline the whole idea of social health insurance. In a sentence or two, we can distinguish between two ways of financing health services. On one hand, we can have a Government total expenditure provided by the national resources. On the other hand, we can also have total support to the health system by charging those participants. Examples of the latter is the United States where those who pay are the only beneficiaries for that scheme. An example of the other totally Government-funded scheme is that of Italy where they simply have a vote as we are going to be having here. Therefore, we can decide to apply both approaches and say, on the one hand, the Government will have its normal provision for health services while, on the other hand, it will also add to that resource contributions from individuals as accessed through the scheme. The beneficiaries, unlike in the second area which I described, are not only those who are contributing, but they also continue to be the totality of the population that is covered by the Government. The only difference is that there will be two sources of income instead of one.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, from what I read in one document that came from the Ministry of Health on the Social Health Scheme, it seems this ministry is dominating on community development. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why they have not involved the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health which is holding part of the health sector.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, first of all, let us be clear that the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health has been fully involved in all the consultations. Secondly, let us establish that the leadership of this project or programme is that of the Ministry of Health for the good reason that in the process of realignment, a certain number of fundamental areas were allocated to different ministries. In the case of the Ministry of Health, the area of policy which affects the entire system was allocated to the Ministry of Health. Financing of health service is common to both ministries, but is based in the Ministry of Health because of this allocation of policy. For example, when we break down into other allocations, we shall find that the area of primary health care and prevention at primary level is allocated to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. These are allocations that are part of the realignment process and, for that reason, the leadership for the policy development of the Social Health Insurance Scheme is located in the Ministry of Health, but not exclusive to the Ministry of Health.

I thank you, Sir.

FILLING STATION IN MWINILUNGA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

175. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development when the Government would facilitate the construction of a filling station in Mwinilunga Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the ministry is currently carrying out an assessment in all the provincial districts to determine which districts are in most need of filling stations in order of priority. The exercise is expected to be completed by the end of this year.

Sir, once the assessment is completed, the Government will then be able to inform the hon. Member of Parliament when the Government will facilitate the construction of a filling station in Mwinilunga District.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the people in Mwinilunga store diesel in drums that are kept in their houses, a practice which is very dangerous? If the hon. Minister is aware, what is the ministry’s quick move?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, what is your quick move?

Laughter

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, yes, we are aware that people in most districts where there are no filling stations keep diesel in drums and other containers. The problem we have had in the North-Western Province is that there was no electricity. Now that we are taking reliable electricity to all the districts in the North-Western Province, we expect a big change in the province. Let me also mention to Hon. Katuka that only last week, I received one of the civil servants from the North-Western Province who wants to put up a filling station. As to what action we will take on those who are keeping diesel in drums, we will refer them to the ministry of Hon. Chilangwa and Hon. Kampyongo who , I think, will deal with them.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, Mwinilunga District had filling stations before, which have since closed. Does the hon. Minister not think that their cumbersome system in awarding licences is the one that is discouraging people from operating filling stations in rural areas such as Mwinilunga? What help will the ministry offer for those that have filling stations to obtain licences quickly from the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development so that they can be assisted in this manner?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I do not know what the hon. Member means by saying that the system is cumbersome because we have procedures on how to get the licences. So far, we have not received any complaints, as a ministry, about the procedure being cumbersome. I would like to advise the hon. Member to come up with a case and report it to our ministry so that we know where the problem is.

Sir, as for Mwinilunga, I know that there is one investor who wants to put up a filling station in Mwinilunga but, like I said, the problem in the North-Western Province and Mwinilunga in particular, is that there was no reliable electricity. However, this Government is taking electricity to the North-Western Province. Once we are through with that project, Mwinilunga will be the first district to receive electricity. So, as soon as we are through with the electrification project, we will see a lot of development in the North-Western Province, putting up of filling stations inclusive.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, as you have heard, Mwinilunga used to have four filling stations, Zambezi has two filling stations, Mufumbwe has a filling station and all these filling stations were operating with the existing diesel power electricity using diesel power generators. Could the hon. Minister, therefore, explain what is wrong with pumping fuel using electricity powered by a generator or the one connected to the National Grid.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, diesel powered electricity is not reliable. It is for this reason that we are removing all the generators from this province and connecting the North-Western Province to the National Grid. Diesel can run out at any time and the generators will be off and the filling stations will be at stand still. Apart from that, they are also expensive. It is for this reason that we are replacing these generators with the National Grid.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kafwaya (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out form the hon. Minster what guarantee he is giving to the people of the North-Western Province. I know that even in 2011, there was a promise that the Government was going to connect the North-Western Province to the National Grid, but after the 2011 General Elections, the project was stopped. What guarantee is he going to give to the people of the North-Western Province that, this time around, the project is going to succeed?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I am not surprised because he is a new hon. Member of Parliament.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, we have been talking about this matter. I do not know what more we should say because I have said this time and again. I personally went to the North-Western Province and visited all the districts.

Sir, the House may be aware that United States (US) $163 million has been allocated to the North-Western Province for this project and US $18 has been given to Eltel contractors from Sweden who is working on the same project. Already, that is a guarantee.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Habeenzu: Mr Speaker, the question of a quick move from Hon. Hamusonde has not been clearly answered by the hon. Deputy Minister. While they are still waiting to connect the North-Western Province to the National Grid, what is the quick move because the problem still continues and the people of the North-Western Province are still facing the problem of accessing clean fuel?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, there are no quick moves. We have to follow the procedure. Not long ago, I said that 2,000 years back, there was one man who used to say let this water turn into wine and that would happen immediately. Unfortunately, for us, as the Government, we have to follow the procedure. There are no shortcuts. If we take shortcuts, we will end up in prison.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when the Government will take power to Mwinilunga. I know that the hon. Minister has been talking about taking electricity to Mwinilunga for the last two years. So, when exactly is electricity to be supplied to make the machines move?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I have already said that within fifteen months, the whole of the North-Western Province, including Lukulu in the Western Province, will be connected to the national grid. The first district to receive power from this project will be Mwinilunga.

Mr Mwanza: When?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I would not state when exactly because I am not able to.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: He is not able to.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, in some districts like Rufunsa, there are individuals who have plans of setting up filling stations. As a ministry, what assistance can you offer to such people?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, that is a very clever question. I would encourage other Members of Parliament like the hon. Member for Mwinilunga … For me, if there is no filling station in a particular area, I see that as an opportunity for anyone here to invest in such an area. You can even use the gratuity that you receive, team up and come up with a filling station, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, just resume your seat.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, you will do well just to answer questions simply and precisely. We will avoid this waste of time. That is what it is. Just give direct responses, bereft of all those comments. There is no need to advise where people should be putting their money. It is unnecessary. People make individual choices where to take their money, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … of whatever description or source. You may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, individuals who would love to invest in the petroleum sector can come to the ministry, and then, we will refer them to the Energy Regulation Board (ERB), who are the experts. The ERB will issue them with the required certificates and licences and then they can go ahead with setting up their filling stations. We are encouraging such initiatives.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

COMPLETION OF SESHEKE/LIVINGSTONE ROAD

176. Mr Sianga asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a) what had caused the delay in completing the rehabilitation of the Sesheke/Livingstone Road;

(b) how long it had taken to resurface the 38 km stretch of the road; and

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the delay in completing the periodic maintenance works on the Sesheke/Livingstone Road is attributed to changes in the scope of works, which included the construction of concrete landing bays for pontoons at Kazungula Border Post, which were additional works.

Sir, it took over seventeen months for the contractor to resurface the 38 km stretch between Livingstone and Sesheke.

The works began from Livingstone and not Sesheke so as to pave way for the early commencement of works in Livingstone due to Zambia’s co-hosting of the United Nations World Tourism Organisation (UNWTO) Conference.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, I have learnt that the contractor has taken seventeen months to resurface the 38 km stretch, and that he was scheduled to complete the 200 km in eighteen months. The people of Sesheke would like to know what has led to the difference in the periodic maintenance works where the stretch from Livingstone to Kazungula has been resurfaced with asphalt while from Sesheke going towards Simboma, the contractor is just doing chip and spray, which is a layer less compared to the Livingstone/Kazungula stretch. Why is there such a difference in the works?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, we follow the flow of traffic.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: So, that is the reason why from Kazungula to Sesheke the road is chipped and sprayed while from Kazungula to Livingstone, it has been resurfaced with asphalt.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, I am very surprised at the hon. Minister’s answer. This road is an economic road and there is heavy traffic of, …

Mr Sianga: Yes!

Mr Speaker: I know this is something very close to your heart (looking at Hon. Sianga). However, let us have order.

Dr Kaingu: There is heavy traffic of trucks coming in through Katima Mulilo Border Post. Hon. Minister, is the mending of potholes, which you are doing, a sign that you have actually run out of money for that road?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, that is not a sign that we have run out of money.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister is a very good friend of mine and, …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, not long ago, you were in the forefront complaining about the hon. Minister deviating and so forth. Let us get to issues objectively, bereft of all these extras. What is your question?

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, there is less traffic on the Kazungula/Livingstone Road because the trucks which are supposed to be using that road are now passing through Katima Mulilo Town to get to Livingstone in order to avoid the congestion at the Kazungula Border. It is a fact that there is heavier traffic now on the Sesheke/Livingstone Road than on the Kazungula/Livingstone Road. So, I would like to find out what the Government plans to do about this situation.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, what I can say is that, if the specification which was given on the Kazungula/Sesheke Road fails, then definitely, the engineers will look at that. The fact that we are doing the chip and spray on that stretch does not mean it is something that can only work for a day.

Mr Speaker, for example, the chip and spray method was used on the Mpika/Chinsali stretch. I have given this example just to assure the hon. Members that the roads worked on using this method are very good and will actually last longer than they think.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister aware that potholes start to emerge immediately after these roads have been mended using this chip and spray method?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I am not aware. However, this is the reason we depend on hon. Members to also bring us that kind of information so that we can ask the contractor to go back and do a better job.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the Sesheke/Livingstone Road is rather unfortunate because after it was constructed in the days of the United National Independence Party (UNIP), it was abandoned for many years. This road is even busier now than before. Therefore, if we do not attend to it properly now, it is going to cost us colossal sums of money to repair it. This was the case when President Levy Mwanawasa, SC. had to repair it. It was almost like reconstructing it. So, is the hon. Minister aware that the soils in that area are delicate and difficult to handle and, therefore, we need to do a good job from the start?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, for now, I want to state here that this is the scope of work which was given to the contractor. However, I am getting all those points that hon. Members are raising. I think I will get back to our engineers so that we can look at it and see whether it would be good for us to revisit that stretch of the road.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, this contractor, who has not been named, took seventeen months to do a stretch of 38 km, when ordinarily it should have taken eighteen months to complete the entire 200 km stretch of the road. Firstly, who is this contractor? Secondly, as a result of that delay, was there any extra cost to the coffers of this Government?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Sir, the name of the contractor is Gomes Haulage. I have indicated here that it has taken this contractor seventeen months to do the stretch mentioned because in this same period, we disturbed the contractor to go and do the landing bay for the pontoon on the Zambezi River at Kazungula. So, when we are condemning the contractor for this delay and saying that in eighteen months the entire road should have been finished, we should be mindful of that fact.

Mr Speaker, when there are emergency works somewhere, it is common practice to give such works to a contractor who is already on site doing other works in the same area or near that area. This is because it is easier for such contractors to mobilise quickly and move to where emergency works have to be carried out. So, let us not entirely blame the contractor in question because we actually gave him some more work.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Last question from the hon. Member for Solwezi Central.

Mr Kafwaya: Mr Speaker, what criterion does the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication use to select contractors? I am asking this because the contractors that have been selected for the Pave Zambia 2,000 Km programme do not seem to have equipment. They have been in Solwezi for almost two years, but have not done anything.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, that is a new question and I would ask the hon. Member to file in a substantive question so that we can come with a detailed answer. However, I can assure the hon. Member that there are a lot of things that are considered when picking a contractor, especially those working on roads.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, this question is of a general nature and, as such, you can give general indications.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, it is a process. Of course, the need to carry out a project will arise and then the Government will advertise the works involved. After advertising, contractors will start applying. In looking at these applications, a lot of things are considered, especially whether the required certificates and other documents are included. We also look at the capacity of the contractor …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Let us have order on the left!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: … in terms of equipment, though sometimes that might not come up because some contractors just hire the equipment required. I want to state here that for some works, it is cheaper for the successful bidder to hire than start buying earth-moving machines because those things are very expensive. So, it does not mean that good works can only be done by those with the equipment. We also consider the monies involved and qualifications of the staff employed by the contractor. Those are the few things that I can just talk about off-the-cuff.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Sing’ombe indicated.

Mr Speaker: I had indicated that the follow-up question from the hon. Member for Solwezi Central was the last one.

ZESCO LOAD-SHEDDING

177. Mr Mushanga (Bwacha) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development what measures had been taken to reduce incidences of load-shedding by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Ltd in the following residential areas of Kabwe:

(a) Ngungu;

(b) Chimanimani; and

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether you will allow me to share some extra information with the House. I have got information on when Mwinilunga will be connected to the national electricity grid. One hon. Member of Parliament …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Answer the question that has been asked first.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, all townships in Kabwe have not undergone load-shedding since the commissioning of the first 180 MW generator for the Kariba North Bank Station extension in November, 2013. However, there have been unplanned power interruptions due to faults on the distribution network. To reduce the occurrence of faults in these townships, ZESCO is overhauling and rehabilitating the old system by replacing it with standard reticulation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: You can give your bonus answer now.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to do so. Mwinilunga District will be connected to the national electricity grid by August, 2015.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, allow me to be the first to congratulate the Zambia National Football Team on winning, yesterday.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Sir, the answer given by the hon. Minister that these townships in Kabwe have not faced any load-shedding ever since November, 2013 is extremely interesting. Could I find out why Kamwala Township, Chilenje, Kabwata …

Mr Mushanga: Mahopo.

Mr Lubinda: ... Lilayi, Given Lubinda Township …

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: … have all been facing load-shedding and yet these townships are closer to the Kariba Dam than these townships, Bwacha, Ngungu and Chimanini in Kabwe. On what basis did the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) choose that only the ones in Kabwe must not suffer load-shedding, while the ones in Kabwata, represented by this noble Member of Parliament, must continue to suffer load-shedding?

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: On what basis was that decision made?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, it is not only Kabwe where the level of load-shedding has gone down, but also throughout the country. We commissioned 380 MW at Kariba North Bank and another 50 MW in Ndola. When you go to the Copperbelt, people are saying this Government is working.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Zulu: The level of load-shedding has gone down. There could be cases of what we call power outages where, when we are working on a line, let us say, replacing the old infrastructure with the new one, we must switch off. It is like when you are repairing a car, you switch off the engine. That is the way it is done. When we are working on a line, we must switch off power and, thereafter, reconnect it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata was specific in the manner in which he asked his question regarding why there is no more load-shedding in Ngungu and Chimanimani in Kabwe. The hon. Minister answered in the manner that you heard for yourself. I would like to find out whether procedure actually allows those of us who know the answer to assist the hon. Minister to put the anxiety of the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata to rest.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I will respond to that. I think you can help the hon. Minister, but not on the Floor of the House.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Maybe, when we go for tea.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: You can invite him for tea and give your point of view but, obviously, I would not, in this context, allow you to respond on behalf of the hon. Minister.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I am very surprised to hear the hon. Minister saying that the level of load-shedding has gone down …

Hon. Government Members: Yes, it has.

Mr Speaker: Order, order!

Dr Musokotwane: …because the goodness these days is that when there is load-shedding, we are informed on our cellular phones.

Mr Mwale: Yes!

Dr Musokotwane: For me, Mr Speaker, for the first time in twenty or thirty years, almost every week I experience load-shedding.

Mr Shakafuswa: Every week?

Dr Musokotwane: Every week.

Mr Shakafuswa: For me, it is everyday.

Dr Musokotwane: So, I was just wondering whether the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) is facing a crisis because even in winter, we do not get this kind of load-shedding. However, now, when it is hot, every week, maybe, two to three times a week, …

Mr Simbao: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: … we are experiencing load-shedding. Is ZESCO facing a crisis?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, no, ZESCO is not facing a crisis.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has listed all the good things that his Government has done in order to reduce load-shedding in this country. I want him to explain to me why, in the same vein as Hon. Lubinda has indicated, in areas like Kaunda Square and Chamba Valley, there is load-shedding almost everyday. There are even those pictures on television like showers from ZESCO telling us to switch off some appliances, which we do. So, load-shedding is there almost everyday. Hon. Minister, tell me, what is the problem?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, my sister stays in Chamba Valley. She used to complain about load-shedding almost everyday, but now she tells me load-shedding, I mean …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Just a moment, hon. Minister.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, as far as the Ministry …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: No, hon. Minister.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! order!

Hon. Minister, just be specific. As I said earlier on, answer your questions precisely, objectively and impersonally.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, as far as we are concerned, the level of load-shedding has gone down. We commissioned 180 plus 180 MW at Kariba North Bank and in Ndola 50 MW. We used to experience load-shedding because we did not have enough generation capacity. Now that we have increased the generation capacity from 1,800 MW to 2,300 MW, the level of load-shedding has gone down countrywide.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Rev. Lt.-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, surely, the hon. Minister is not telling the nation the correct situation. Only yesterday, Zambians who were watching football could not watch it because ZESCO load-shedded their areas.

Mr Simbao: Hear, hear!

Rev. Lt.-Gen. Shikapwasha: Please, explain to the nation, how best they are going to have their electricity in order to watch their football.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, if the area Member of Parliament, Hon. Rev. Lt.-Gen. Shikapwasha, could mention which places experienced load-shedding, …

Mr Simbao: Lilayi.

Mr Zulu: … I will be able to follow up with ZESCO and find out why.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

GOAT BREEDING CENTRE IN NCHELENGE

178. Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when the Goat Breeding Centre at Chabilikila in Nchelenge would be re-established.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Speaker, the infrastructure at Chabilikila Goat Scheme in Nchelenge is currently in a dilapidated state with the area also being encroached. The ministry will carry out an inventory and viability assessment of the scheme in order to determine how best it can be utilised.

In the interim, Chishinga Livestock Breeding Centre in Kawambwa has been established with the aim of servicing its the surrounding areas, including Nchelenge District in which Chabilikila Goat Scheme is located.

Chishinga Livestock Breeding Centre will provide the needed livestock such as cattle, including goats, for stocking and re-stocking.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mpundu: Mr Speaker, when is the ministry likely to make the assessment which you have mentioned?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, moving into next year, which is 2015, that is when we will make the assessment to determine the viability of that facility.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether Chishinga Livestock Breeding Centre has any available goat stocks that we can make use of or buy for its surrounding areas, including Nchelenge.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, at the moment, we have a herd of cattle at Chishinga Breeding Centre and, as we have too many goats at our Mukulaikwa Breeding Centre, we will take some of them to Chishinga Breeding Centre.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, is there any intent by your ministry to roll out the programme that you have at Chishinga in Kawambwa to other districts?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, in future, we want to open some more livestock breeding centres so that farmers from all parts of Zambia can benefit from this programme of livestock stocking and restocking.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister able to tell the nation and, through the House, to the – I mean tell the House and the nation at large …

Mr Lubinda: Through the nation, the House.

Mr Konga: No.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, continue.

Laughter

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister tell the House and the nation at large whether the goats that will be given out from the breeding stock will be at a fee and, if so, how much it will be.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the livestock that will be sold from the Government institutions and facilities will obviously be at a cost. We are not going to give livestock free of charge. As regards the cost, all I can say to the House and the nation is that at the moment, we have just drafted the guidelines. As soon as the guidelines have been finalised and approved by the Cabinet, the nation will be informed as to how much will be required for either a cow or a goat.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Sing’ombe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development, Hon. Zulu, in order to call Hon. Nkombo to give him answers when you clearly stated that he should seek his assistance at break time?

Laughter

Mr Nkombo moved to the Back Bench.

Mr Speaker: Well, there is no evidence …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … that Hon. Nkombo was called. So, the hon. Minister is not out of order.

Laughter

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, considering that the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has failed to clear Swine Fever in the Eastern Province thereby rendering our pork products fit for only ourselves, could the hon. Minister indicate if the programme on goats is also active in the Eastern Province so that we can substitute our pigs for goats.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, first of all, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has not failed to control the African Swine Fever. However, for the Eastern Province, the difficulty is that people rear pigs in a traditional manner. This is where pigs are left to run around everywhere. In such an environment, it is difficult to control the African Swine Fever.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let us have order. I cannot follow the Minister.

Hon. Minister, continue.

Mr Kazabu: Where pigs are reared in the required manner of confining them to a pen, we are able to control the outbreaks like we did when the disease occurred in Lusaka and the Southern Province.

As to whether the ministry has plans to establish a livestock breeding centre in the Eastern Province, the answer is yes, we have such plans. Next year, the hon. Members of Parliament will see what we will be able to do for the Eastern Province.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just indicated that …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I rarely stand on points of order.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I think I will start maintaining statistics.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I have a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Finance, who always sits close facing me, but cannot see me, in order to leave his seat and be substituted by the hon. Member for Chipili? I had problems finding out where he was but, now, I have located him. Is he in order not sit in his place? I need your serious ruling.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I am sure that if you followed your own movements, you would not raise that point of order.

Laughter

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister just indicated that one of the difficulties that they have in controlling the African Swine Fever in the Eastern Province is the manner in which the pigs are reared. Have there been difficulties in the Government helping the people of the Eastern Province to keep these animals caged or in the manner that is desired so that the disease is controlled?

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, our duty as a Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock is to impart the appropriate knowledge into people who would like to rear livestock such as pigs. That is how far we go. We do not get involved in constructing pig pens for individuals. This is the responsibility of whoever wants to participate in the rearing of any species of livestock.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

RICE VARIETIES GROWN IN ZAMBIA

179. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a) what the main rice varieties grown in Zambia were;

(b) of the varieties above, which ones were mainly intended for export; and

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the main rice varieties grown in Zambia include Super, Angola Crystal and Blue Bonnet grown in the Western Province; Super, Kilombero and Nerica-4 grown in the Northern Province; and Saucesharp, Ndelema, Bungala, Super, Nerica-4 and Nsenga varieties grown in Muchinga Province.

Mr Speaker, the rice varieties that are preferable for export are Super, Nerica-4 and Kilombero varieties. However, the quantities grown of these varieties are currently low and are, therefore, not exported.

In order to increase the production and improve the quality of rice, the Government, through the Zambia Agriculture Research Institute (ZARI), is developing improved varieties such as ITA230, which was released and is commercially available. This particular variety yields as much as 8 tonnes per hectare as compared to local varieties which currently yield approximately 1.5 tonnes per hectare. Further, the development of improved rice varieties is being supported by several co-operating partners such as the World Bank (WB) through the Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA) and the International Fund for Agriculture Development (IFAD). The development of these varieties is being accompanied by production packages such as improved land management and use of fertilisers. Additionally, through the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), farmers are provided with improved rice seed and fertiliser. The Food Reserve Agency (FRA) also procured paddy rice as a way of motivating farmers to grow it because it has a readily available market.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

I think that let us get to the break first.

You may continue, Hon. Miyutu.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Government has the desire to promote the increase of production of rice in the Western Province and Kalabo in particular. Can the hon. Minister say what he has said is applicable to the production of rice in Kalabo.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, Kalabo has more than enough space …

Laughter

Mr Kazabu: … and that is why we have been talking about diversifying agriculture and why we want to introduce the e-voucher as a means of distributing farm inputs. Once we do that, our dear farmers in Kalabo who want to increase their rice production will be free to use the support which they are going to receive from the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, Kalabo is, indeed, an important rice-growing area in Zambia. In fact, sometimes, when people say “I am buying Mongu rice” in reality, it is Kalabo rice they are buying. Is the hon. Minister aware that this important source of rice-growing is now threatened by the buffaloes that prefer to eat rice instead of leaves and grass?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, I was not aware. Now, I am aware that elephants are causing problems …

Hon. Opposition Members: Buffalos

Mr Kazabu: …sorry, buffaloes – in that part of the country. That is something on which we will have to liaise with our colleagues in the Ministry of Tourism and Art under which the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) falls so that we can find a way of assisting our people to control these …

Hon. Opposition Members: Buffaloes!

Mr Kazabu: … buffaloes.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, indeed, dependence on maize in Zambia is leading people into acute poverty and begging. Rice is not only grown in the Western Province, but also in some places in the North-Western Province such as Jimbe, Ntambu, and Zambezi. A lot of rice is grown in these areas. The Food Reserve Agency (FRA) even abandoned some of it in certain satellite depots. As if that were not enough, the Government of the United National Independence Party (UNIP) had put up a polishing machine in Solwezi which is lying idly. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what he intends to do with that equipment, and how he will motivate these people I have mentioned in the above-mentioned areas to grow rice so that we can move forward.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, now that the matter has been brought to our attention, we will find a way of making use of the equipment that has been referred to. Secondly, in answering one supplementary question, I explained that, as Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, we are diversifying so that we do not continue having many people just focusing on growing maize, but also other crops such as rice. We are aware that once we increase the rice production, we will get to a point where the local market may be saturated. As the ministry or Government, we will help our farmers by linking them to regional markets which may need to be supplied with rice. That is how we intend to help our farmers not only in the North-Western Province, but in the other provinces as well.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the international demand for rice is obviously much higher than the demand for maize. Can I find out from the hon. Minister how much of the rice in Zambia is produced by commercial farmers? Has the Government put in place any incentives to attract big investment in rice production so as to create forward and backward linkages such as out-grower schemes to encourage the quick saturation of the local market thereby producing for the yawning international market?

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Simuusa): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to acknowledge that, as a Government, we have realised and recognised that putting our eggs in this one basket of maize farming is not the way to go and have, therefore, decided to diversify.

At the moment, rice is second on the list in the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) in terms of seed distribution. Further, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) only buys rice and maize. This is in order to encourage our farmers to grow more rice.

With regard to having large-scale measures, we are obviously waiting to see the response. For some reason, in rice production, we do not reach the numbers we ought to reach for us to begin talking about exporting the product. Most of the rice produced is consumed locally. However, we are actively looking at the aspect of getting rice to catch on the way maize has.

Mr Speaker, we must agree and admit that even in our households, nshima still takes priority. When rice is served in a home, people say that it is not food and go on to ask for nshima.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa: This is something we will have to deal with and continue supporting in order to see how we can increase rice production.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, amongst the varieties being grown, are there any genetically modified organisms (GMOs)?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the answer is a categorical no. We have a policy not to allow any genetically modified organisms (GMOs) in Zambia and rice is no exception.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated some location in Kalabo and Senanga where this product can be grown. I would like to find out from him how much of the hybrid rice seed has been sent to the Western Province through the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP).

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I will need to get the exact figures so that I do not mislead the hon. Member and the House. However, I can confirm that seed has been sent. In fact, as I speak, more is on its way to the region.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether Nerica Rice, which can be grown on plateaux, has been sent to parts of Central Province, including Mumbwa, in order to diversify to growing this crop.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, again, I must confess that I will need to get the figures and the actual details so that hon. Members can appreciate and also that I do not mislead the House. However, I will confirm that, indeed, rice has been sent to Central Province.

Mr Speaker, you directed that I come with a ministerial statement. I will include all these details so that we are all apprised.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, Nerica Rice can do very well in the uplands. I would like to know whether the ministry has any plans to start growing winter rice to saturate the demand. Do you have such intentions?

Mr Speaker: We have consultants in here.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I agree with you that we need to consult on this one. I know that rice grows normally in swampy and warm areas. Winter rice, however, would need much consultation with the hon. Member and, maybe, we will look at it as agreed.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Kabwata asked whether there were any incentives being offered in rice growing. This question was not answered. May I find out from the hon. Minister whether there are any incentives in this particular area.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I mentioned two incentives. Firstly, we are sending seed to different regions at almost 25 per cent of the total cost. We are making it available at that subsidised value under the FISP.

Secondly, the FRA has been allowed to collect only two commodities, namely maize and paddy rice. This is a deliberate effort on the part of the Government to incentivise our farmers and any citizen who may want to grow rice.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

FUTURE PLANS FOR ZAPD

180. Mr Mwila asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a) what future plans the Government had for the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities (ZAPD);

(b) why the Government had neglected ZAPD; and

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mrs Mphande): Mr Speaker, the Government will continue to provide both financial and technical support to the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities (ZAPD) in order to ensure that the rights of persons with disabilities are protected and promoted in line with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities.

The Government has not neglected ZAPD. It has challenged the institution’s board to ensure that it re-engineers itself and streamlines its functions in line with the Persons with Disabilities Act No. 6 of 2012. The Government has no plans to abolish ZAPD. Instead, the Government has plans to ensure that it is empowered to assist vulnerable persons with disabilities countrywide.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, my concern is Mukabi and Lumino Farming blocks that are in my constituency and where nothing is happening. Can the hon. Minister tell me, through you, Sir, the policy of the Government with regard to persons with disabilities in these blocks.

Mrs Mphande: Mr Speaker, this Government’s policy is to ensure that all the farming blocks are revamped so that the persons that are living with disabilities, like I already mentioned, are looked after in a positive manner. At the moment, the Government intends to spend some monies to make sure that production is going on and people with disabilities are doing constructive things.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, in response to the question by the hon. Member for Chipili, the hon. Minister said that the Government has asked the chief executive officer of the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities (ZAPD) to …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, your authority to allow the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province to stand up as I raise this point of order is requested.

Laughter

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, Standing Order No. 207 (1) states:

“The official dress for male Members of Parliament shall be a lounge suit, a pair of long trousers, a tie and a jacket, toga or a safari suit (not khaki except uniform for members of the Defence Forces) with long or shirt sleeves and a scarf or tie.”

Sir, is the hon. Minister for Lusaka Province in order to be dressed like one of Koffi Olomide’s dancing group members? I seek your serious ruling on this type of dressing in this important House of this Republic.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Stand up!

Mr Speaker: No, there is no need.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I can see him from where I am seated. I will come back to this point of order in a moment.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I was following up a question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chipili. In his question, the hon. Minister indicated that the Government had asked the chief executive officer (CEO) of the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities (ZAPD) to have ZAPD re-engineer itself.

Sir, I know that ZAPD has been wholly Government-funded and the problems that are associated with ZAPD have been mainly due to a lack of funds. Could the hon. Minister be kind enough to explain to me what she really means when she says ZAPD should re-engineer itself?

Mrs Mphande: Mr Speaker, what I mean is that the restructuring process was vital to undertake so that issues of execution in the way the persons living with disabilities were looked after were re-addressed. As such, there was a need to re-address it to make sure that their execution was in line with what is supposed to be done.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities (ZAPD) is one of those institutions that can do a lot for the disabled once supported. In her response to the question, the hon. Deputy Minister said that they would send some money in order to revamp those farms. How much money do they plan to expend to revamp those farms or, at least, one of them?

Mrs Mphande: Mr Speaker, I cited the Lumino Farming Block in Luapula and the amount of money that is supposed to be spent on this particular exercise is about K60,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, Kabwata Constituency houses a number of important institutions for the disabled like it does for many other social service provision organisations. The Zambia Agency for Persons with Disabilities (ZAPD) is meant is to support these institutions. Given the fact that the ministry has realised that ZAPD requires restructuring for it to be able to deliver on its mandate, would the Government be thinking more about providing expertise to ZAPD to help it to conduct that restructuring and come up with a strategic plan rather than asking people who may not realise that they require this strategic thinking to do it on their own?

Sir, could they not send people from Cabinet Office, for instance, to go and assist ZAPD so that it is restructured and continues to fulfil its mandate?

Mrs Mphande: Mr Speaker, at the moment, there are already relevant authorities that are looking into qualified personnel and graduates to get into management and start work so that it operates efficiently.

I thank you, Sir.

ESTABLISHMENT OF TRADES TRAINING CENTRE IN KAPUTA DISTRICT

181. Mr Ng’onga asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) whether the Government had any plans to establish a trades training centre in Kaputa District;

(b) if so, when the construction of the centre would commence; and

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, the ministry has no immediate plans to construct a trades training centre in Kaputa District. Due to limited resources, the Government has adopted a phased approach to constructing trades training institutes.

Sir, in 2014, the Government commenced the process of constructing trades training institutes in Mporokoso, Sesheke and Mwense. If the estimates for 2015 are approved, the ministry plans to start the construction of six additional institutes in 2015.

Mr Speaker, Phase I of the construction of trades training institutes will take 100-150 weeks to be completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister consider Kaputa in the immediate future, knowing very well that its surrounding areas like Chienge, Nsama and Nchelenge have no trades training centres where our children could go? Is it possible to consider Kaputa in the near future?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I said that we have no immediate plans to do that but, in the future, the ministry will make an assessment and consider putting up a trades training institute in Kaputa.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, if I got the hon. Minister correctly, he indicated that if his budget line is approved, then they may consider establishing six centres in six districts in 2015.

Sir, have you already identified those districts and if you have, can you tell me in which districts you will establish these trade centres?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, we cannot confirm for now, but that will be subject to discussion as our budget comes to this Parliament sooner or later.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Let me come back to the point of order.

Mr Livune: Yes.

Mr Speaker: The point of order was raised by the hon. Member for Katombola and, in so doing, he relied on Standing Order 207 (1) that reads:

Obviously, it is evident that he has a shirt, a tie and a jacket, ...

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … but I must hasten to add that in as far as the jacket is concerned, I do not think these are the kind of jackets ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … I would encourage the male Parliamentarians to don. I know our rules are quite scanty in this sense, but I think I would suggest or direct, in fact, that we should try to be sober in our outlook. If I had given this guidance before, I would have invited the hon. Member to leave the Assembly Chamber, but since I have not commented on this issue, in the formal sense that I have, I hope we will take this as a cue and, generally, as a caveat that this will not be permitted. Let us be sober in our outlook.

ROADS REHABILITATION IN KAOMA CENTRAL PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

182. Mr Antonio asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when rehabilitation of the following roads in Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency would commence:

(a) Njonjolo;

(b) Lombelombe;

(d) Naliele; and

(e) Kalumwange

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Kosamu left the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: … the works on the Njonjolo Road, Shimano Road and Naliele Road in Kaoma Central Parliamentary Constituency are not included in the 2014 Road Sector Annual Work Plan. The local authority in this constituency is expected to prioritise these roads and forward them to the Road Development Agency (RDA) for possible inclusion in the 2016 Road Sector Annual Work Plan.

Mr Speaker, the works on the Lombelombe Road are included in the 2014 Annual Work Plan under the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). They will commence once funds have been received and the equipment has been mobilised. The Kalumwange Road also known as the D301 Kaoma-Kasempa Road is under Phase II of the Link Zambia 8,000 Km Road Network Programme.

Mr Speaker, it is planned that works to upgrade the road to bituminous standard will commence in 2015 after the completion of the procurement process.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister says that the Lombelombe Road is in the 2014 Budget, but we only have about sixty days to exhaust this year. When are the works going to start on this road?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I repeat my response. The works on the Lombelombe are included in the 2014 Annual Work Plan under the Rural Roads Unit. These works will commence once funds have been received and the equipment has been mobilised. If we are not going to receive this money this year, then works will commence even next year. The truth of the matter is that we have already planned for these works.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister referred to the Kasempa/Kaoma Road being raised to bituminous standard. He said that, currently, the procurement is in the process, but at what stage is this process?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, the designs have just been completed for this road and the Roads Development Agency (RDA) are now preparing the advertisements so that contractors can begin to apply.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, are you able to avail us with the designs of the road?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member is interested in seeing the designs of the road, he can come to our offices and we will be able to avail them to him. From the way I understand those designs, they are quite complicated. I am not saying that the hon. Members will not understand these designs, but that some may understand them while some may not.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, can you assure the people of Kasempa and Kaoma Central that this process will be concluded by the end of this year?

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Mr Speaker, I have indicated, in my response, that the commencement of works will be in 2015. I am saying so because the process of just getting the contractor is quite involving. I cannot assure the people of Kasempa that this process will be concluded this year. However, I can assure them that this Government is going to work on that road.

I thank you, Sir.

REHABILITATION OF MARKETS IN KABWE AND COUNTRYWIDE

183. Mr Mushanga asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) whether Kabwe was among the districts to benefit from the funds reserved for the rehabilitation of markets countrywide;

(b) what criteria were used in choosing the eligible districts; and

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Tembo): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that it is the policy of the Government to construct, in conjunction with the local authorities, modern markets and bus stations in all the districts, including Kabwe. However, these are high cost capital projects which are dependent on the availability of funds. Kabwe is one of the districts which will benefit from the rehabilitation of the markets which is taking place countrywide.

Mr Speaker, the criteria is essentially demand-driven, subject to availability of funds. There is already a deficit in the financing of projects. Therefore, priority will be given to the on-going projects.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that Kabwe is going to benefit when it comes to the construction of mordern markets. However, he was not specific regarding when Kabwe is going to benefit. Could the hon. Minister specify when Kabwe is going to benefit in terms of the construction of a modern market.

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, in my answer, it was clear and straight forward that it will depend on the availability of funds. Therefore, once funds have been made available, we will consider Kabwe.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister confirmed that there is already a deficit in the financing of projects. Each time we ask questions about the extension of this developmental infrastructure, most of us, especially those from the western side of the line of rail, are told that the projects are in a certain phase that will commence in 2016. Now that he has confirmed that there is already a deficit, what comfort can he give us, whose projects have been deferred?

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government does not look at where a person comes from, whether it is from the western, eastern or northern part of the country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: All the developmental projects have been spread round in all the provincial headquarters, and in most of the districts, there have been mass developments going on, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Tembo: … especially in terms of road infrastructure. Coming back to the question, the Government is still committed, but it is only that the demand has increased in terms of construction of markets. Therefore, we will consider other projects when we have the funds available in our ministry.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister keeps referring to the statement “when the funds will be made available.” I would like to find out from him whether those projects were included in this year’s Budget or they will be included in next year’s Budget?

Mr Tembo: Sir, we always plan for these projects. In 2014, we planned for these projects and in the 2015 Budget, there is an allocation for these projects. In 2014, K22 million was allocated to infrastructure development more especially the construction of markets and bus stations. However, the only hindrance is that we have not been receiving the funds as stated in the Budget.

Hon. Opposition Members: What is the problem?

Mr Tembo: The problem is not with us, but the Ministry of Finance has not …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: … been releasing these funds on time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Why?

Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, there was a spell of time within the tenure of office of the PF Government when Hon. Professor Nkandu Luo spent some time at the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. During that time – and I drew a lot of admiration for her – she put her foot down on the nuisance that is caused by street vending until the former hon. Minister of Justice, who has since left this Chamber, made a lofty statement to legalise street vending. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government repealed the Markets and Bus Stations Act because they are not following it to the letter. This may be the reason why they do not want to construct markets. I would like to find out when they will bring that Bill to this House to be repealed so that people can be allowed to sell anywhere even in front of this Parliament and State House.

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Chenda): Mr Speaker, the Markets and Bus Stations Act has not been repealed and is still in force. The fact that we have this challenging situation where some of our citizens are trading in the streets does not mean that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has legalised trading on the streets. Not too long ago, hon. Members of this august House had a field day on this subject. Therefore, what other answers would they expect from us other than what we said? We are all not very happy about the status quo. We are doing all things possible to ensure that we address this situation, and are making some progress on this issue. I would like to appeal to everybody in this House to join hands with the Government in trying to resolve this issue.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Chenda: We are committed to resolving this issue …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chenda: I cannot answer for those who do not want to be part of the solution, but are complaining about the problem. As responsible citizens, we should all ensure that we put our hands together to resolve this problem. It is a problem that exists. Nobody is happy about the situation. Therefore, it is going to be addressed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, in the past, the Government would release money specifically for the construction of the markets. When these markets are well done, they beautify the townships like the one I saw in Ikeleng’i. Where has the money for the construction of markets gone?

Interruptions

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, in our response, …

Mr Speaker: I know this is a very emotive subject, but let us proceed orderly. If you have questions to ask, I will give you an opportunity to ask them. Nobody is prohibited from asking questions.

May the hon. Minister continue.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, in our response, we stated that we are giving priority to completing the on-going projects. The demand for infrastructure development is huge. It is common knowledge that it is far beyond our capacity to finance all the projects. Therefore, it is only prudent that we begin to give priority to completing on-going projects as we take on new projects. The most important fact is that we are committed to dealing with these issues and that cannot be questioned.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why, in this particular case, the Ministry of Finance has become the culprit of failure.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Local Government and Housing are one indivisible Government because this is a programme that involves all of us. Therefore, we are not failing to address this situation because we are doing everything possible to try to ensure that the commitments that we have made are honoured.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I want to help the hon. Minister …

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Shakafuswa: … by asking him whether he is aware that some of these markets have a very good source of income. Some are being owned by the so-called party cadres who are levying people that operate from there. Does the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing not think that if that money collected from these markets is accounted for properly and not laundered by the people who do not even pay tax, it can be used by his ministry to actually ensure that the ministry’s projects are financed? I know of people who collect over K100 million a day from these markets. If that money was properly accounted for, does the hon. Minister not think that it could help the hon. Minister of Finance solve the problems that we are facing?

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I suppose that all the markets and bus stops are administered in accordance with the provisions of the Markets and Bus Stations Act. If the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba has information that there are people who are running away with hundreds of millions of Kwacha, we would like to benefit from his knowledge so that we can deal with these issues.

Sir, the official policy is to ensure that we run these markets in accordance with the provisions of the law. We committed ourselves to ensuring that this Government is run by laws and not by men, and we will remain committed to that.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

UPGRADING OF COMMUNITY SCHOOLS IN KAPUTA PARLIAMENTARY COSNTITUENCY

184. Mr Ng’onga asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a) when the upgrading of the following mud and grass-thatched community schools to portal framed schools in Kaputa Parliamentary Constituency would commence:

(i) Kawama;

(ii) Mataka;

(iii) Watenwa;

(iv) Kalengwa;

(v) Chitaba; and

(vi) Kakote;

(b) how many community schools were upgraded from pole and mud to portal framed structures in Kaputa District from January to August, 2014; and

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Kaputa, Mr Ngonga…

Hon. Members: Mr Ng’onga …

Mr P. Ngoma: … Ng’o …

Laughter

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Gong’a …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the upgrading of the mud and grass-thatched community schools in question to portal-framed schools in Kaputa Parliamentary Constituency will commence when funds are made available.

Sir, there were no community schools that were upgraded from pole and mud to portal-framed structures in Kaputa District from January, 2014 to August, 2014. However, one community school has been funded for upgrading. The name of the school which has been funded for upgrading is Shikayamba.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to correct the hon. Minister that my name is not Gong’a, but “Ng’onga.”

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: No! Gong’a.

Laughter

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Speaker, another school has been mispronounced as Kalangwa when it is Kalanga.

Sir, when you look at this list, there are about seven pole and mud community schools, which is a very sorry sight, indeed. I would like to know whether there is any consideration, given to upgrading one or two of these schools in the immediate future into proper structures for the people to benefit.

Mr P. Ngoma: I would like to remind this august House that in the 2014 Budget, there are fourteen schools which are supposed to be upgraded from pole and mud, and grass-thatched to permanent structures. The hon. Member may wish to know that the Northern Province is among other provinces which are going to benefit from this project.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, it is sad to hear that only fourteen schools from the entire country will be upgraded from pole and mud to better primary schools. I would like to find out what problem the Government is facing in completely eradicating these pole and mud schools. This is in view of the fact that when they were campaigning, they were saying that they were going to do away with pole and mud schools. What has gone wrong?

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, that is a very important question, which equally exercises our minds in the ministry.

Sir, the reason things are like this is very simple. If the hon. Member has been following our predicament as a ministry and if he also followed the President’s Speech and the Minister of Finance, Hon. Chikwanda’s Budget Speech, he would have got the gist of this predicament.

Mr Speaker, the major problem is that of secondary school infrastructure, which has kept us busy for the past three years. The President made it very clear that the shortest hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education should expedite the completion of these schools. I am glad that the hon. Minister of Finance also spoke about this. He said that with the allocation in the 2015 Budget, we should be able to complete all the eighty-three outstanding secondary school projects which I know will be the case next year. This means that all the non-personal emoluments has mainly gone towards infrastructure at one level. We have a plan to upgrade these pole and mud grass-thatched structures countrywide.

Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that the Western Province tops the list. Muchinga comes second followed by the Northern Province. Thereafter, the Eastern Province and the North-Western follow in that order. Therefore, it is widespread. We are talking about 1,500 schools, which will need a little more money than we have had in the past because the available amount only targeted the completion of secondary schools. So, come 2016, we might …

Laughter

Dr Phiri: This is not for political expedience because this has been ‘a hanging a nightmare’. In a year that we are celebrating the Golden Jubilee, we cannot afford to leave thousands of children to learning from dilapidated structures such as these. We are hoping we can make a thrust by upgrading as many community schools as possible. Suffice it to say that even some Government schools are pole and mud grass-thatched. I, therefore, hope that we can make an impression to 2016, beginning next year.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, I would like to know the names of the fifteen schools that the hon. Minister has said will be upgraded in the Northern Province.

Hon. Backbenchers: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, that is homework we can take, and advise the hon. Member of Parliament at a later stage. We did not anticipate this search for names of the fifteen schools because the question was on Kaputa District.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I am glad and encouraged to hear the hon. Minister indicating that in this year of our Golden Jubilee, we cannot afford to allow our children to learn in structures of mud and pole. Could the hon. Minister indicate to us how long he envisages to eradicate the pole and mud structures.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I wished I could say in twenty-seven years. I did indicate that if the secondary school sector projects are completed in 2015, then we can use the same amount to embark on upgrading the pole and mud grass-thatched facilities, which are dotted all over the country. How long before that is done will depend on how much money will be available for the infrastructure programme. However, I am hoping that in one year, we can make a good impression on this sad scenario.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, my hon. Colleague, Hon. Alan Mbewe, also known as Tom and Jerry, …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I am sitting here very innocently, on behalf of the people of Chadiza drinking Government water.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Is the hon. Member, whose name was Given Lubinda, but has now been changed to Mahopo, in order to drag me into his debate?

I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member of Kabwata is not in order.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, when my colleague, the representative of the people of Chadiza, raised his question, he said that he had some trouble hearing that there were fifteen schools to be upgraded in 2015. I would like to seek confirmation from the hon. Minister whether it is, indeed, fifteen schools countrywide or in the Northern Province. If it is in the Northern Province, which has eight districts, could any of those fifteen schools, therefore, be schools in Kaputa District?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, from the hon. Deputy Minister’s answer to the original question, Shikayamba was mentioned as being one of the projects for 2014. So, if Shikayamba is in Kaputa, we can conclude that it is one of the fifteen schools in the province that will be upgraded. In fact, it is not Hon. Mbewe only with hearing problems. I think the people of Mahopo also have that problem.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I am following up on the issues of sufficiency of resources for upgrading schools. Since the Patriotic Front (PF) Government was prepared to force fifty-five by-elections in the country, through the petitions, it, therefore, means that it was ready to fund these by-elections. I know that one by-election costs more than US $1million, and so it means that the PF Government was ready to find US $55 million and more for the by-elections. That money would have been more than sufficient to replace all the mud and pole grass-thatched schools in the country. Are we failing to upgrade these schools because of insufficiency of money or wrong priorities on the part of the Government?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, it is difficult to reply to hon. Members of Parliament who have tasted Government positions before, and being a former Minister of Finance, I thought that is a very misplaced question.

Dr Musokotwane indicated dissent.

Dr Phiri: I have stated that the reason we had to shelve the upgrading of these schools to a later time was that most of the non-personal emolument funding went into secondary school project completion. I said come 2015, we are completing this.

Sir, the monies that I am talking about are appropriated by this House.

Hon. MMD Members: By-elections!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members!

Dr Phiri: Sir, when it comes to by-elections, the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education has no idea, …

Laughter

Dr Phiri: … and is not even concerned about how this House gives money for by-elections. So, you are asking the wrong person. What I can only loudly complain about is that when the PF was making its manifesto on education, it was not reminded by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) to be careful because the former Ruling Party left a lot of projects for us to complete.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Dr Phiri: Now that we are completing them, give us the credit we deserve.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: Sir, I have stated and I will restate here, that all those projects were for political expedience, to allow, mainly Cabinet Ministers to return to this House. Now, I know why you have to return here. It is cooler here, I guess. However, we are not going to make the same mistake. Come 2016, we are going to make sure that these schools are upgraded using the available money in the Budget which this august House appropriates.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

WATER SUPPLY NETWORK IN SESHEKE DISTRICT TOWNSHIPS

185. Mr Sianga asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) whether the Government had any plans to expand the water supply network in the township area of Sesheke District; and

(b) when the old water supply lines would be rehabilitated.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the Government is soliciting funds from co-operating partners to finance the improvement and expansion of water supply and sanitation infrastructure in the Western Province. The Government is also currently negotiating with various co-operating partners for the improvement of water supply and sanitation in Sesheke District. The estimated cost for the Western Province is US$40 million, which includes Sesheke.

The old water supply lines will be fully rehabilitated once funds have been sourced for the project. However, currently, there is a maintenance programme in which the Western Water and Sewerage Company has provided K60,000 in its 2014 budget to replace part of the old water supply lines and the works therefor are expected to be completed by December, 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, Sesheke is on the right bank of the Zambezi River. From time immemorial, the people of Sesheke have been made to drink contaminated water. The water supply pipes have been leaking for the past twenty years. Therefore, why has the Government taken so long to fix this problem?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, I cannot give a correct answer why it has taken so long to fix that problem, as the hon. Member has put it. However, I wish to state that we are committed to rectifying the situation. Currently, the Western Water and Sewerage Company is working to improve the water supply system in the province. Overall, the Government is making efforts to ensure that enough money is sourced to rehabilitate the entire supply line.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed this House that US$40 million is required to improve the water supply in the Western Province. Out of this amount, how much has the ministry raised from its co-operating partners so far?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the fund-raising process is at the initial stage. We have parties that have expressed interest in funding the amount that I have stated. We believe that we are getting a good response towards the raising of that particular amount.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF DIP TANKS IN MKAIKA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

186. Mr Phiri asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when dip tanks would be constructed in the following areas in Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency:

(a) Chimtende;

(b) Vulamkoko;

(d) Zinaka;

(e) Mpoto; and

(f) Nyembe.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, has plans to rehabilitate and, where necessary, construct dip tanks throughout the country. In Chimtende area of Mkaika Parliamentary Constituency, there is a spray race which serves the same purpose as a dip tank. Vulamkoko area already has five tanks, namely Joel, Kawanje, Michembo, Nyamaulo and Oliva. However, these require rehabilitation which has been planned for in 2015 and 2016.

The Garven area already has a dip tank at Matunga. A dip tank is planned for construction in 2015 at Zinaka, whilst the Mpoto area has a dip tank which has been earmarked for rehabilitation this year. This dip tank will also cover the Nyembe area.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker, when, this year, will the areas that the hon. Minister has mentioned be considered? As far as I am concerned, we are only remaining with two months before the end of the year.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, we have drawn up a comprehensive list of dip tanks to be rehabilitated and constructed. Therefore, if the hon. Member is interested, he can come over to the ministry and identify the dip tanks that are to be rehabilitated and constructed in his constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, Hon. Phiri is asking for dip tanks in Mkaika Constituency, which means there are a lot of ticks there. In the Western Province, we do not need any dip tanks, but there are ticks there. What type of ticks are in Mkaika Constituency?

Laughter

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, I suppose the hon. Member who has asked the question is referring to the ticks that cause the East Coast Fever. I am not a specialist that has studied the various types of ticks. All I know is that East Coast Fever is a tick-borne disease and it is because of this disease that we encourage our farmers to regularly dip their animals so that they are protected.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock criminalised the non-dipping of cattle through a statutory instrument, which I think the hon. Minister signed last year or early this year. Has the ministry, so far, prosecuted any farmer for not dipping his/her cattle?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, in fact, the appropriate piece of legislation to refer to is the Animal Health Act No. 27 of 2010. We have not received any report of a farmer or villager who has not complied with the requirement to dip his/her animals regularly. When such reports will be received, we will invoke the appropriate law and ensure that those that are not playing the game according to the law are prosecuted and, hopefully, convicted and sentenced to prison.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda: Mr Speaker, as a follow up to the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola’s question …

Mr Livune: Hon. Livune.

Mr Miyanda: … Hon. Livune’s question, that is trying to find out if anyone has been prosecuted and you are saying so far no one, hon. Minister, are you aware that the animals in the Southern Province die day in and day out of tick-borne diseases and yet no one has been prosecuted? What is the way forward?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, I can only conclude that some animals are dying in that part of the country because the owners have not protected them against the East Coast Fever which is caused by ticks. I wish to explain further that, as a ministry, we are only there to receive reports. By the way, we have officers on the ground. I can only conclude that if there are some farmers who have not been complying with the law that requires them to dip their animals regularly, it is because such people have not been reported to our officers on the ground. The moment they are reported, we do not have any problem using the law. That is why this honourable House passed that particular law.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

_____________

MOTION

BUDGET 2015

(Debate resumed)

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you that you have given me an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Budget Speech.

Mr Speaker, I took time to read through the Budget Address, especially that I was not in the House when it was read. I had to look through the whole document to understand this Budget Speech, including the pictures. I wanted to understand what the hon. Minister wanted us to know. This year, we have a very good theme which says, “Celebrating Our Golden Jubilee as One Zambia, One Nation by Making Economic Independence a Reality for All.”

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: This is a good statement. I immediately thought of looking through this Budget Speech to see how we can achieve this economic independence as individuals. Somehow, I wanted the hon. Minister to realise that since we are celebrating our Golden Jubilee, that picture I see on the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) Television, which has all the five Presidents should have been put on the cover of the Budget Speech. Having this picture where there are only two on this cover of the Speech has a lot of different meanings. It might mean the two on this picture, one being the First President and the other one being the last …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … or, maybe, that the two are ruling this country in a similar manner. I still want him to, later, explain why he chose only two …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … because we have had more than two Presidents in our fifty years. I looked at the back page where he is showing us some maize, dancers and I can see a Patriotic Front (PF) cadre …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … being followed by a dog. I was trying to understand where they were going …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … and whether we should also encourage people to be followed by dogs.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: In any case, you must think of what people will construe when you use picture illustrations.

Sir, I have read this Budget Speech and am happy to note that the hon. Minister has acknowledged that for six consecutive years, inflation has been contained to a single digit in line with the Government’s micro-economic objectives. If we have done this in six years, it means, therefore, that since the PF Government has been ruling for three years, the other three years must have been managed by somebody else.

Ms Kalima: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: The hon. Minister of Finance is acknowledging that the predecessors had done some good work. This is a good thing. I have heard them say the others have done nothing, and it is only them who are doing very well.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Muntanga: However, the hon. Minister of Finance is quick to show that the other Government’s three years before them, left a single digit inflation record. You have to maintain this because you have taken over from a Government that has given you a single digit inflation rate. In your remaining two years, if the inflation rate goes above two digits, then we shall realise something has gone wrong.

Mr Mwanza: And it will.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: I have been reading and my understanding is that if we are going to ensure that each and every person must have economic freedom, the hon. Minister might have just remembered that last year, he froze salary increments. Due to that, we do not want to make these others who might negotiate salary increments to suffer. You should have lifted the freeze because your motto is, “Making Independence a Reality for Everybody.” It cannot be a reality if you have a section of workers who cannot negotiate for their salary increment. That is not correct. It means as we say, everyone shall have economic independence, but the others must wait. We are going back to the time of the First Republic. I think that is why we have this picture of the two Presidents on the cover of the Budget Speech.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hmmm!

Mr Muntanga: We had what we called, “belt tightening,” continuously until I thought they should say, tie your belts on your neck …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: … because people were not dying despite their tying their belts around the waist. This time around, we have an indirect way. Hon. Minister, you have stopped awarding increments but, at least, negotiate for this. You could have negotiated for a 2 or 3 per cent increase. Give a cap. Saying no negotiations or increment, at a time when you want economic independence for everybody, does not apply. We have to think about it. I know that you want to achieve something, but there are other ways you can control the Government’s expenditure.

I have looked at the Speech and there are some things which I believe you will enforce. You have been very clear on giving the Rural Roads Unit K5 billion, which is a little over 10 per cent of the Budget.

Mr Speaker, we had the Link Zambia 8,000 Km Road Project being implemented outside the Budget by depending on loans or something. Now, you have put a budget for it and I think you will stick to it. We will not have to make roads that are not budgeted for out of the blue. In that case, it is important that the hon. Minister of Finance realises that there is a small percentage of formally employed people. They are not many, but they are the ones that are giving you K7 billion of your income. The income contribution from the formal employees is higher than what the mines are bringing in. With your change, you expect only to get 5 billion kwacha.

The Pay As You Earn (PAYE), the Income Tax component, is higher than what the mines are contributing and yet we are aware that the mines employ more and get income tax. We are told the mines make a lot of money. We should get to a time when income from the mines surpasses that from PAYE. Failure to do this will show that we are giving the mines at no cost.

Mr Speaker, as usual, I am extremely unhappy that we have failed, once again, to reach the threshold of 10 per cent of the Budget allocation towards the agriculture sector. I have looked through the Budget and I know that there is a component that you have put under the Government expenditure for salaries. You have been very specific. You have allocated K900 million for strategic reserves. This shows that we have an exact Budget for 500,000 metric tonnes of maize. With this Budget, the price of maize will be K90 per 90 kg bag. So, we might as well state that farmers will get K90 for a 90 kg bag of maize.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: This is what you have stated in the Budget. There is an extra K92 million that you can use to buy other crops. In your own Budget, you have said that the increased production of maize has contributed to the growth that you anticipated for this country. So, the maize-growing aspect, which you seem to speak for, on one hand, and against, on the other, has contributed to growth. You talked about it here, but you are not sure what you are doing.

You have allocated K1 billion to input support and your reserves are all for maize. There is no way you can say that you cannot give that money towards maize purchase. As for the diversification of crops, you cannot force people to diversify into growing other crops. Even when they grow cassava, they have been spoiled like every one of us because they may have to include maize meal. They will not use cassava alone. Therefore, we should not be shy like you have been in this Budget. I have heard the hon. Minister saying that we will try to reduce on maize purchase. Hon. Minister, you will not. There are countries that do not even talk about maize because their way of eating has nothing to do with maize. They will talk about other types of crops like cassava, yams, bananas, plantains, …

Hon. UPND Member: Chapatti.

Mr Muntanga: … and all those things like Chapattis.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: We are not used to such things in Zambia. If you are going to give a meal to Zambians without the traditional maize meal, they will tell you that they have not eaten any food. So, it is important. I acknowledge that the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs has learnt how to cook Chapatti as he is eating it in India. However, all I am saying is that in Zambia, we talk about maize meal.

Mr Speaker, I want to encourage the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock to be bold enough to tell farmers that the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) will pay K90 for a 90 kg bag of maize.

Hon. Government Member: Question!

Mr Muntanga: Well, that is what you have budgeted for. Do not divert this money. The Budget for strategic food reserve is K992.2 million. Do not divert it. The hon. Minister means well.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Muntanga: We need that money for the crop for farmers. Why should we quarrel every time they have finished growing?

Mr Speaker, I have seen a Budget for irrigation. The hon. Minister has been stressing damming. I wanted to see a programme where water holding is a big project. Earlier, the hon. Minister had said that there was money held somewhere for making dams but these dams that you are talking about are not being constructed. I know that it is not your fault, hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock. We need dams. If the Government comes up and talks about irrigation, just go out and make dams. Do not have these trial small-scale irrigation projects. Every time you have a small dam or a small canal, you take villages to one side and say that this is the irrigation that we want. No! Just hold water everywhere.

Mr Speaker, in countries such as Swaziland, you find over forty dams in any area you go to. Our neighbour, Zimbabwe, was given a prize for producing a lot of crops. The first programme was to hold water by making more and more dams. Let us make this project, which you say is being funded by the World Bank, a big programme. I hope that the hon. Minister will take advantage of this.

Mr Speaker, my worry is that we have talked about other programmes. For livestock and fisheries, the K300 million is not enough. We have to create disease-free zones. We talked about identification of animals when we talked about theft only yesterday, and someone referred to Botswana. I wish to mention that it was the hon. Deputy Minister of Justice who referred to Botswana. The programme of putting boluses on animals for identification in slaughter is a programme that can cost US$30 million.

Mr Speaker, we talked about this programme in this Parliament when we talked about disease control and theft of animals. We said that if we can have a funded project where you use boluses which are stuck in the stomach for electronic identification of animals, then we would be somewhere. We will not only identify where each animal has come from, but also control the unnecessary movements of animals.

So, I am happy that an hon. Minister mentioned this and that there are hon. Ministers thinking in this line but, please, include it in the Budget. I will support Supplementary Estimates of US$30 million for boluses and disease control measures. The allocation that is there is not enough because he has mentioned that we also need to support 1,000 farmers, which are not enough either. The farmers are nearly 2 million, but you only support a quarter. That is, 50 per cent of the budget to the farmers.

Mr Speaker, if you check what happens with your production figures, you will find that they do not really come from the supported farmers, but those who farm without support.

Hon. Minister, you have copied these figures of 3 million tonnes of maize production. Please, come with the post-harvest figures. If you do not do that, we carry on with wrong figures. We are talking about 3 million metric tonnes, but you know that this is not the correct figure. We are waiting for the post-harvest figures which have not come. The hon. Minister of Finance is now making his Budget based on these figures. If these figures are wrong, everything else goes wrong. What is the problem with the statistics office? Why is it not coming up with post-harvest figures?

Hon. UPND Members: They are PF cadres!

Mr Muntanga: Hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, please, come up with the post-harvest statistics for us to settle this problem. I still contend that we have not produced the 3 million metric tonnes that you are talking about. There is no way that is possible.

Hon. Ntundu: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: How do you say that when half the country experienced the same drought in February …

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: … and, then, you are still relying on pre-harvest figures. Yes, the crop was beautiful in December and January, but it did not mature in February. I challenge the hon. Minister to quickly bring those figures so that we can fit them.

In future, I will not stop reminding the hon. Minister of Finance to allocate 10 per cent of the Budget to the agriculture sector, and everything else needed to be done in that sector will fit into it. However, only 5 per cent of the total Budget has been allocated to the agriculture sector. It would be good if you gave us another 5 per cent. Although 20 per cent of the total Budget that has been allocated to education is not enough for that sector, it is the amount that was agreed in the Dakar Declaration for sectoral budgets. You have failed to reach the target on health and agriculture. Hon. Minister, this Budget has certain things that you have to advise us on. I am not satisfied that you are only going to get K5 billion from the mines. I am yet to understand what you have done. We can only get mineral royalty and no corporate tax. What does that mean? We need every penny to be collected.

Hon. Government Members: Kwacha!

Mr Muntanga: Yes, every Kwacha. You want us to get ngwees when we do not even use them.

Mr Speaker, I am grateful that the hon. Minister of Finance and the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock have been very kind to listen to me.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker, let me start by acknowledging the debate of the previous speaker, especially on earth dams. I have gone to the ministry concerned to talk about that. I think that there is a project being funded by our co-operating partners to construct dams. I think that the design of this project is not really Zambian. The implementers of this project are emphasising the construction of irrigation dams. However, that is not the solution needed in the drought-prone areas. We want earth dams for livestock so that we can begin to diversify. There is a demonstration in my area of this project. At Munyenze, they constructed a wonderful dam and put an irrigation system there, and it was quite costly. Had they constructed some earth dams, they could have constructed, maybe, five of them. I am telling you that those canals they constructed are just being wasted. Our people want to do what they already know best. From maize to livestock – we must know which areas they can diversify into.

Mr Speaker, I am surprised because this country is not that dry. We have enough rains. All we need to do is what the previous hon. Member has been saying here. Perhaps, we can remodel that Irrigation Fund because constructing earth dams is cheaper than constructing one dam per province. No one is calling for irrigation facilities in my province. The people grow enough food during the three months of the rainy season. In the rest of the months, they want to do better things. After all, there are more lucrative agricultural businesses than just irrigating a few crops. Most of the women who are irrigating now are just growing vegetables using water from boreholes. You will not find many gardens by the dams. They have now gone to a nearer water point. Therefore, I think that design of the project is not really Zambian. I challenge my colleagues at Mulungushi House to go and ask the people at the grassroots about this. We have been going to the District Agriculture Co-ordinating Officers’ Office in our districts to tell them that what we want are simple earth dams. In my constituency, for example, I have made a submission that I need about fourteen earth dams. That will transform the area, and you will see many people being weaned off from the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). We need to diversify agriculture. I am going to come back to issues of maize and agriculture, but let me come to the proper Budget.

Mr Speaker, let me start with the theme of the Budget. Fifty years of Independence for Zambia is not a story to celebrate. It is time to reflect on our fifty years of Independence. On the first page of the Budget, the hon. Minister brought out very salient issues that we must think deeply about. He said, for example, that we have lived in a period of unbroken political stability. That is correct, and we must safeguard that. This country is very fragile in nature. Zambia is not a nation, it is just a State. A nation is a geographical entity that is homogenous. This art of making us really one is very important so that we move from just being a State to being a nation like our friends in Tanzania have done. In this sub-region, Tanzania has beaten us in achieving some level of nationhood or oneness. In this country, sometimes, I have fear when I hear some of the talk that goes on. Today, some people talk about regionalism and ethnicity. I think that we must commit ourselves. This kind of talk must not even appear in the media. Inciting people to talk about regionalism and tribalism is backwardness. People must be responsible. It is very easy to slide into a serious problem. With the poverty in this county, I can tell you that people can easily go to war. There is underlying poverty and any tribesman can easily incite his people to follow him, and this country can easily fall apart. I want to say that at fifty, the country is still very fragile, and we must commit ourselves to unity. Even in our debate here, let us be nationalistic …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: I am going to come to that, especially from you.

Mr Muntanga: Yes.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Hamududu: You have a serious commitment to make. I am going to come, for example, to the Constitution-making process. You are polarising the country over a simple matter. The issues itemised by the hon. Minister of Finance here – by the way, must not be personalised. This is an old man. We must respect him. My father, the late Bernard and my mother Eleanor are not my only parents. He is also my parent and we must honour our parents. We must not personalise issues. Let us respect him. We must respect our ‘Africanness’ and our ‘Zambianness’, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: … that is, our uniqueness. However, there are people who just talk anyhow. We must respect elderly people. What society are you going to develop?

Mr Speaker, let me come to the second point. This country supported our neigbouring countries to attain independence. It is shameful today that the countries we supported have surpassed us in economic independence. It is a shame. Our own graduates have beaten us by far.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, when you go to Zimbabwe, South Africa and even Angola, which was at war for twenty-five years or a quarter of a century, they are changing fast today. What is wrong in this country? I think that, this year, we must reflect on that. I am not available to celebrate on 24th October. I will be there to reflect. There is something wrong and it would be wrong for us, leaders, to start dancing and eating. There is something terribly wrong in this country, and I think that we will be available on that day, but to reflect. I will come to your function, but I will not eat anything. I will fast on that day. We have not ruled our people properly and collectively. We have failed to fix the Constitution. People are being funny and making statements. This country has been misgoverned.

Mr Speaker, I have a document here. Chile, which was ruled by a dictator at one time, in 1970, had copper production of 686,000 tonnes, while Zambia had copper production of 684,000 tonnes. In 2012, Chile produced 5 million tonnes of copper and Zambia produced 675,000 tonnes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Hamududu: Yes. You can see the difference, and this is a country similar to ours. It is very clear. We must know what is wrong. What is wrong in this country is bad governance underpinned by a faulty Constitution. Corruption and inefficiency have been insitutionalised and we are here talking about petty issues, and do not see the burden that we carry on behalf of the people who sent us here. By the way, there are many people who do not even vote. They do not want to vote, but they pay tax, so, we must respect them. They sent us here to do the right thing. For a long time, we have been doing the wrong things. We must agree to do some things correctly and rise above our party interests.

Mr Speaker, the other issue that the hon. Minister mentioned is that we have not attained economic independence fifty years after attaining political Independence. With all the resources we have in this country, we have not achieved the economic independence. Therefore, this Budget must be one that will give us a new start. When we come back from tea, I am going to zero in on the Constitution before I go to the Budget itself because the Constitution is the problem. You cannot govern properly under this faulty Constitution even if you are a rocket scientist. There is something we must do. We can fix the Constitution in a few months time.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, let me give us a chance to go for break, and I will continue later.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 until 1830 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, as I wind up debate, I want to state that the most important thing that we must do now is a new governance order that requires a new Constitution. There have been many comments pertaining to the inadequacy of the budget line provided for the Constitution-making process. For me, the issue of money is neither here nor there. The issue here is consensus.

In this country, we are fond of saying we want more money, but money is always limited. With this limitation, we must prioritise. What we need with regard to the Constitution is consensus, not money. Let us agree because the basic minimum now are known. People want a separation of powers and a Vice-President who will have the powers of a Prime Minister and run the Government because the President is normally hidden in that huge house. This way, we will begin to see delivery by the hon. Ministers. His Honour the Vice-President has been reduced to attending to disaster management and mitigation and being Leader of Government Business in the House …

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: … simply because the President cannot come here. We want a proper senior Minister who will ensure that all the hon. Ministers are at their very best. This is what we want.

For instance, the people of Zambia want an independent Parliament, a Legislature that will hold the Government accountable so that we do not have this comingled Parliament. This is what they want and we must agree across political parties on this matter. Those who want to fly a flag can make their own. We can put up flags for individual hon. Members if your dream is to fly a flag.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: However, you cannot compromise the common prosperity of the Zambian people simply because you want to fly a flag. The basic minimum are known now. Right now, we can walk to the Amphitheatre and invite stakeholders and agree. In sub-Saharan Africa, Zambia is the pettiest country. Everyone talks without carrying out any research or without any knowledge basis. We must understand what we need as a country.

Mr Speaker, we are struggling in the agriculture sector and with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Hon. Minister, the people are saying that we should stop channelling money through councils in their current format.

Dr Kaingu: No!

Mr Hamududu: This is pouring money in dirt. The councils in their current format cannot handle such money because they have serious problems.

Dr Kaingu: True!

Mr Hamududu: Why can we not create another avenue for our people to access this self-help fund? We are pouring money in councils that are so inefficient and that have arrears in everything. Do you think that those councils will deliver this development?

Dr Kaingu: No!

Mr Hamududu: Today, our councils are failing to deliver a simple K1.3 million.

Dr Kaingu: Can you imagine that?

Mr Hamududu: In Monze, it takes six months to buy seven hammer mills all because they want some cuts.

Mr Speaker, I have, on the Floor of this House, mentioned the Zambia Social Investment Fund (ZAMSIF), which had a different arrangement. We are not saying that Members of Parliament should handle this money. We do not sign for this money and we do not want to, but we want our people to access this self-help fund …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: … so that we can address the shortage of teachers’ houses and build small bridges.

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Please, stop channelling money through the councils in their current format.

Dr Kaingu: No!

Mr Hamududu: Do you mean to tell me that we cannot think outside the box?

If it is a question of the law, we can amend it here. I hope that the next CDF will find a better channel so that it can begin to help our people. All we are agreed here is that the CDF is playing a very important role, but we are pouring money against bad and this money is not reaching constituencies.

Mr Speaker, this country is standing at the same paradox. God has remembered us again because for the past ten years the economy has been growing at 5 per cent above the sub-Saharan and global average. The economy is growing and the weather is favourable. We can now start the next fifty years afresh. Our Vision 2064 looks brighter because the foundation for the next fifty years is quite favourable. However, we are not doing the right things.

Hon. Minister, I want to support your suggestion that we add value to our activity-based budgeting so that we begin to emphasise results. In this country, we just make input. We want to know what is coming out with the money we are putting in. In this Parliament, we can even have a session to look at sector performances. Hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, if we give you money, we should be able to request your delivery or output, as agreed. Do you know that civil servants misapply money because the money is not meant to do anything? It has just been put in activities. If, however, you put pressure on deliverables, they will be exposed.

Mr Speaker, in this Budget, the same rural roads they put three years ago for the Southern Province are still appearing, including the ones already done. I am happy with this addendum for the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education which is showing the projects beforehand. What used to happen before is that, by and large, we would approve a budget line for infrastructure and a few people go and decide on which projects to do. This Parliament must begin now to approve the actual projects by name and location. This is what this output-based budgeting is all about. We must embrace it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Yes, it will be challenging because it requires more information, but anything good requires a better arrangement. It requires that we raise the bar. We cannot remain in a system that is not delivering. Activities must be linked to outputs or results and this is the emphasis. I think that in this policy that you have produced, hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, we are walking the talk.

Mr Speaker, as I told you, I am the focal point person for the Population and Development Advocacy in this Parliament. Africa and Zambia, in particular, has such a young population. Research has actually suggested that we do the right thing. Hon. Minister, you have said that 53 per cent of the population in this country is below eighteen years. This means that we must invest in young people.

The first sector that should come here is education. Education is not only social, but also economic as well. Investing in the skills of young people is the right and most important thing to do. If you want to improve agricultural productivity, you must have skilled people. We are struggling with diversification because we have people with low knowledge levels. We must do everything we can to put all our children in school. Let us outdo ourselves in providing free education which is realisable. If it means cutting other expenditures, we must.

This country today, when you go to Mulungushi House, Government House and Cabinet Office, you will realise that it has the most posh cars in sub-Saharan Africa. You cannot find some of these cars in South Africa. I have been to the Pan African Parliament and have not seen such cars there.

Mr Lungu: Question!

Mr Hamududu: No, you cannot find them. Over the weekend, cars are parked. Today, you will find a deputy director driving a Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) vehicle and you say, we have no money.

The wage bill is beyond limit, quite alright, and we cannot go beyond it, but there is something we can do about it. This Government needs to be restructured because it is top-heavy. We need to cut at the top, starting with the hon. Ministers. You cannot have seventy Ministers in a poor country like this one. Let us begin cutting at the top so that we can have space within the threshold to increase salaries for the lower level or frontline staff.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: It is possible to increase the salaries if we do what is supposed to be done. Cut the structure at the top.

Mr Speaker, this country has too many parastatal and quasi-Government boards, and boards of directors sucking money. These people fall under their ministries, but earn more money than the supervisors. I think that this particular trajectory, post-1991, of having too many parastatal and quasi-Government bodies must be revisited. Some of these things, if we were to bring performance management in the Government, would be better off as departments because they are just sucking money.

Mr Speaker, for example, there is a national park in Bweengwa called Lochnivar National Park which was run down under the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) jurisdiction. It was better when it was just a department. It is not adding any value. I am also glad that you are saying we must introduce a Sovereign Wealth Fund, but we should have done it from Independence. The only caveat I want to put here is that it must not be under a parastatal, but the Bank of Zambia. Secondly, we need extra mineral revenue to go into this, especially from our minerals because they are non-renewable. Let some money be kept for the future and for the bad times.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, let us bring in private sector participation when it comes to certain parastatals. Let us not run the Zambia Telecommunications Company (ZAMTEL) as a pure 100 per cent owned entity. Bring in a private initiative. ZAMTEL is what it is because of what was done by our colleagues. You could see the growth and it began to challenge the privately-run mobile companies. Let us revisit these parastatals and that is the only way they can begin to contribute some dividends in the Sovereign Wealth Fund.

Mr Nkombo: Ino ba ZAMTEL pa bantu ma cellular?

Mr Hamududu: Sir, the final thing I want to say to support the output-based budgeting is that we should introduce performance-based management in the Civil Service. This Budget will not perform until we deal with the individuals. The individuals are not performing. If we bring robust performance-based systems, you will see the deadwood removed. Not everyone is compatible with working in the Civil Service.

Mr Speaker, I went to my council last year and could not believe it. People are failing to deliver simple things. There are people who are not supposed to be working in the Public Service and the only thing that can expose them is a performance-based system. If you do not meet the criteria or threshold within a year, then, you are sent out.

Sir, this money is enough to transform our country. Do not even ask for more money. What we need are systems to support delivery. An output-based Budgeting augmented by a performance-based system is what will work. Maybe, we are afraid to introduce them because we have put our friends and our associates in positions and if we bring that, they will go away. Countries are downsizing and reducing foreign missions, but we are opening new missions. With Information Technology (ICT) today, do we need more missions abroad? That is where the money is. If you want to do the best for your people, you should downsize everywhere you can.

With these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Any further debate?

We have only had two since we started at 1430 hours.

Laughter

An Hon. Opposition Member: I can debate again.

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo rose.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Lukulu West.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, it is, indeed, One Zambia, One Nation, …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mutelo: … but when it comes to the distribution of national resources and national peace, that motto falls away because, to date, we still have people who are in prison because they stood to fight for that which is theirs. Zambia might be a State and not a nation, but so is America. Time has proved that America is a State while Obama is ruling.

Sir, I am glad that I am now holding one volume unlike the President’s Speech which had two volumes.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: At least, there is one volume and this is how things should be.

Sir, on page 1, it is said that poverty in Zambia remains high at about 60 per cent even though it is much lower in urban areas at round 23 per cent. This 60 per cent is only found in Washishi.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: The same poverty which is at 60 per cent in Washishi is at 23 per cent in urban areas as has been confirmed in the Speech. Concerning water and sanitation, the 2014 Budget states that out of about 2,000 boreholes earmarked to be sunk, 1,514 had been sunk as at the end of September this year. However, not even a single one has been drilled in Lukulu West, although this has been quoted in the Budget Speech.

Mr Speaker, the Speech also mentions school-feeding programmes. Money has been allocated, but that feeding programme is not found in Mitete in Lukulu West Constituency where vulnerability is at its highest level. However, they still claim a One Zambia, One Nation.

Sir, on page 14, the hon. Minister of Finance states:

“Mr Speaker, I wish to assure this House that the PF Government will exercise fiscal prudence in contracting debt.”

Let us hope so. He further goes on to say:

“Borrowing will, therefore, be restricted to financing only critical capital investments.”

This is a good statement, but borrowing will probably be diverted in 2015. You borrow money for one thing, lose the principle on which you borrowed the money and do other things.

Mr Livune interjected.

Mr Mutelo: The result would be – I thought the statement was going to be continued, but alas, it was just beginning. It further states that:

“To avoid burdening future generations with unsustainable debt, Government will further strengthen domestic revenue mobilisation”

Thank you very much, but the type of borrowing that we are doing will prove to be a burden to the future generations like it was sometime baki.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the Zambian economy was doing well from 1964 through to 1966, but around 1967, the borrowing started.

Mr Livune: Who was the Minister of Finance?

Mr Mutelo: A debt burden had been accumulated by the Government that was there at the time, but now that this burden has been lifted, this Government has started borrowing again, maybe, because they may not be there in future.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Let us hope the hon. Minister will stick to what he is saying here …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mutelo: … and borrow strictly for capital investments and for the benefit of the whole nation. I am saying so because it is the same roads that were included in the 2011, 2012, 2013 and 2014 budgets. The Katunda/Lukulu/Mumbezhi Road is not mentioned anywhere. For four consecutive years, akuna. Yauci mo Katunda/Lukulu/Mumbezhi Road.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: What do you mean?

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, Katunda/Lukulu/Mumbezi Road ya uauci mo means that the Katunda/Lukulu/Mumbezhi Road is not included in this Budget, even though we keep saying, “One Zambia, One nation”. Other roads are being constructed, but the Katunda/Lukulu/Mumbezhi Road is not being constructed. The stadium which was mentioned in this House by the President ya kwa Mongu, ikai? Aiyo!

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I am asking where the allocation for the Mongu Stadium is because it is not mentioned in the hon. Minister’s Speech. According to the hon. Minister’s Speech, the King Lewanika University will only be constructed after the completion of the Paul Mushindo and Robert Makasa universities. Our colleagues across want to give priority to other universities and, thereafter, consider the universities in our areas. The “One Zambia, One nation” motto should not just be in words, but also in our deeds. If it was the time of the late Mr Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula, he would have said we, the Opposition, form a coalition. I want to agree with the previous speaker that we have seen what the current leadership is capable of. However, when we suggest changing the Presidential leadership of this country in 2016, we are accused of regionalism.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, of all the leaders of our political parties, we know the best person for the top leadership of this country. However, some people want to be politicking when we suggest the right people to be put in the right positions. Things should not be working out like that. The bottom line is that Zambia belongs to all of us.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, if we were to amend the Constitution of Zambia, I would suggest that we include a clause for the rotation of the President. If we are to avoid regionalism, then, we should rotate the Presidential Office among the different regions of this country.

Mr Livune: One Zambia, One nation!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, this would show that we believe in “One Zambia, One nation”. I do not want to go into details, but let the “One Zambia, one nation” slogan have its full meaning. The way things are, batili. During the time of their campaigns in Zambezi, our colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF) said that they would construct a bridge on the Zambezi River within ninety days, but it is nowhere to be seen. Where is that bridge? Yauchi? Akuna. The bridge is not there even though it is One Zambia, One nation. There must be a question mark somewhere.

Mr Speaker, we should mobilise the revenue for our Treasury locally, but the hon. Minister indicated that 75 per cent of the 2015 Budget will come …

Hon. Government Members: Sit down!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Ministers, that is not in order. He is a representative of a constituency. I was saying this the other day.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The House cannot rely upon you to say when an hon. Member should sit down. How? This is a democracy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, even if they tell me to sit down, …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: No, just continue, hon. Member. Just do your role. Controlling the proceedings of this House is my function.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I am just following your guidance. Even if they told me to sit down without your mentioning it, I would not do it.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, we have talked about the economic inflation pressures being felt by the people of this country. The words used by the hon. Minister in his Speech are that this matter has been “largely tackled” This means that the issue is not fully tackled. They are saying that the threshold is at 40 per cent and we are at 23 per cent. How can we be proud of that as a nation? We would be proud if we were reducing on our borrowing. We are ascending towards 40 per cent and, I think, we should not even be proud of that. We have gone past half of the 40 per cent, but the pressure is still there.

Mr Speaker, let me also talk about village economics. When the village headman is sick, every activity in the village comes to a standstill. There will be no movement of any kind. All the resources will be diverted towards taking care of the village headman.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, all economic activities will stop because the village headman is not fine. This is the truth about village economics. When the owner of the village is not fine, you cannot even sleep. That can also be applied at national level. It is up to people to agree with me or not, but this is what a village economics concept means and it is a reality.

Mr Shakafuswa: That is right. Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the rural areas will not develop if we do not take a single Ngwee there. It is not good to see the burden of poverty rising in rural areas. Last week, I noticed that the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing was struggling when talking about street vending. He was even encouraging us to work as one and see how we can solve the problem of street vending. This issue was legalised on the Floor of this House. Why should it be a problem today?

Mr Speaker, that is the problem we have with the people on your right. Today, they will say one thing and, tomorrow, they will change and say something else. Let us learn to admit when we have made a mistake. We should also learn to correct things. That way, we will move forward as a nation. This Government is under pressure because it committed itself to doing so many things. Our colleagues promised to do a lot of things within ninety days. Sometimes, you will find that the money that is allocated to a certain ministry for its activities is diverted to other things.

Even the Road Development Agency (RDA) has been taken to State House …

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: … to be controlled from there.

Mr Speaker, a policy is supposed to state that a certain amount of money is for a certain budget. However, this is not the case. No wonder hon. Ministers have stated that certain projects would only commence when funds would be available because everytime, these funds have not been available. This is an activity-based Budget. We are almost at the end of year, but hon. Ministers are still stating that money is not available. That is the problem. An activity-based budget is for the expenditure for the projects from 1st January to 31st December. Even the formation stage of the Budget where we do our part, or, as some have used the unparliamentary word, ‘rubber stamping’ …

Hon. Opposition Member: Correct.

Mr Mutelo: However, the real issue when it comes to the Budget is that the auditing and the oversight role is not performed by Parliament.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, there is no total oversight of how these monies are being spent. The Public Accounts Committee (PAC) may perform the oversight role, but it has no teeth.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: It can just state that money has been misappropriated and, at the end of the day, things remain hanging.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Therefore, the proper oversight job for Parliament on the Budget is not there.

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, in Luvale, we refer to what we are doing as mwandu kubita hakuheta hakulya nyama mwandu kabichi kumushinga nyekakoko.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: It means that when it is time for hunting, they call for this man known as Mwandu and, for sure, he kills the animals, but when the time to eat comes, they say, Mwandu is a blind man …

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: … and cannot partake of the meal. These are the Budgets that we have been approving, especially for the people in Mitete, …

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: … Zambezi West and Liuwa.

Mr Speaker, I talked about how the Ministry of Health is circulating messages on Ebola, but they are only for people who can read and have access to cellular phones. However, some people in the rural areas could also have gone to the Ebola-affected countries and, maybe, one of those people could contract Ebola and, by the time the ministry realises, the entire population would be wiped out because it would be very difficult to contain.

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: Do we have a heart for the people in the rural areas? This is a question that remains to be answered by the hon. Minister of Finance and all the people in these positions. If the Government does not improve the livelihoods of the people in Washishi, they will pack their bags from Washishi and come to the streets of Lusaka where there are no toilets …

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: … so that the Government feels the pressure. That way, it will be a One Zambia, One nation. However, the reality is that we must share the resources equally.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to debate the Budget as presented by the hon. Minister of Finance.

Sir, I would like to preface my short debate by indicating that at the time we were moving a Motion in order to lift the Standing Orders to provide for hon. Members to study this Budget, I stood up in your absence and tried to make a few remarks supporting the Motion. I also tried to connect this activity of governance from the previous years to the point at which we are.

Mr Speaker, at this juncture, I want to take a minute or two, to say what I was stopped from saying during the points of order that were given by the hon. Ministers on your right hand side.

Sir, we are performing a function that must be appraised from time to time. Budgeting is not a business-as-usual activity because it stems from other planning activities such as the Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF). If you read through the Hansard, you will understand that the moment I mentioned that term, one of the hon. Ministers rose and campaigned for the Hon. Mr Speaker to rule me out of order and I resumed my seat.

Mr Speaker, I would like to see connectivity between a national plan, an MTEF and an Annual Budget. Allow me to refer to the hon. Minister of Finance as Hon. Chikwanda and to bunch him in the basket of the Patriotic Front (PF).

Mr Chisala: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I have said before that during this segment of our business, I will not allow points of order. You may not have been present, hon. Minister, when I said this, but I do not want these debates to be unnecessarily interrupted.

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I was saying that I want to remove his title because human beings come and go, but institutions remain. Much as he has to defend this Budget, I think, under our current dispensation, this is an exercise of an academic nature. We need to begin to listen to one another, and understand that mano alazwa mukasumbwa, which means that even a small person’s advice can add value to something. Therefore, I would like him to listen and to appreciate the few sentiments that I want to make.

Sir, this Budget does not give me hope. This is because since the PF Government came into power, I have received three Yellow Books. However, there has been this preponderance of the Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Ministers always saying that as and when money is available is when they will deal with a particular project. What is the essence of calling this an Activity-Based Budget?

Mr Speaker, let me talk about Mazabuka Central which I represent. For two years now, the Yellow Book has contained the uplifting of township roads to bituminous standards. In 2013, I went to the Ministry of Finance to ask them why they did not tar the roads in Mazabuka after we had even given them the street names that we priotised in Mazabuka. The answer I was given was that funds had not been permitting because of competing needs and I accepted that answer.

Sir, in 2014, in the same Yellow Book, there was was an allocation for 20 kilometres of bituminous standard roads to be given to Mazabuka. As the hon. Member for Luena said in her debate, our colleagues in the PF have ripped off the Great East Road. They have literally gone into digging it up and yet in Mazabuka, they promised us, through this Budget, which I was part and parcel of, by appropriating only 20 kilometres of bituminous standards roads, but have failed to honour this promise.

Sir, the hon. Minister of Finance said in his Budget Speech that he intended to see a Gross Domestic Growth (GDP) of more than 7 per cent. To me, it is like saying nothing. There have to be real targets.

Sir, in Rwanda, a small country in terms of land mass, but with almost the same population as we have, has been growing its economy at figures in excess of 10 per cent. If this Budget was ambitious, the hon. Minister of Finance would have given me a figure above 7 per cent. This could mean 7.1 per cent. Then how do we appraise our progression? This Budget does not give me hope at all.

Mr Speaker, before I deal with the issue of Constitutionalism, I would like to go to the sectors very quickly. The hon. Minister has placed 4.7 per cent for Public Order and Safety in the summary of his Budget. To me, I think, the hon. Minister was misled. He was misled because there are areas such as agriculture, where the hon. Minister should have argued with the people that help formulate this Budget to ensure that the connectivity that I have been speaking about, our economic performance at family level, is actually made meaningful.

As we speak today, the PF Government had budgeted to buy 500,000 metric tonnes of maize from the farmers. However, since they get ambitious without a plan, it is for a reason in my opinion that when they took over the reins of Government from the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), they deliberately went and removed the nomenclature of their ministry from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. This is because they did not want the issue of planning to be on the cards. They changed their position in agriculture because of this unexpected bumper harvest and decided that they were going to buy up to 950,000 metric tonnes of maize. I wish the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock was here because he is the one who called his counterpart’s tenure of office in his ministry a fiasco, not long ago.

Sir, as I am speaking to you today, on back the page of the Budget Speech, there is a stack of maize. It is meaningless to have this stack of maize on this Budget Speech when the Government has failed to pay the farmer on the 16th October or towards the end of the year.

Sir, our colleagues had committed to buy 500,000 metric tonnes, but I am told that they lifted the collection to 1 million tonnes. They have paid just under 19 per cent of whatever they collected from the farmers. Do your simple calculation of what they call the floor price of K70 per 90 kg bag of maize and multiply that by 20 which is a tonne and see how much income they have deprived their own citizens. These are the same citizens who live in the rural areas because most of the people in urban areas do not even have a shamba, a small one hectare farm where to grow maize. So, who are they punishing? How do they think the children of these parents, whom the parents must support, are going to school today?

Sir, not long ago, there was a meeting at the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) where the hon. Minister tried to suggest they do a barter system for those who have supplied to FRA at a very late hour like this, in October. They suggested that they must do a barter system and give the farmers fertiliser in exchange for the maize that they supplied. This gives me the reason why they removed the words “National Planning” in the nomenclature of the ministry.

Sir, going back to the same schedule, I hear the hon. Minister of Finance says that our borrowing levels are within acceptable international standards. He read this during his Budget presentation. I twitched, when I heard that.

Sir, Cardinal Mazombwe is dead. This is the man who championed the issue of debt forgiveness. It was him, may his soul rest in peace, who helped us. Now we are sinking into debt and saying that it is within the international borrowing standards. What about our output as a country?

Indeed, the hon. Minister went back to the issue of taxation and made some adjustments from 6 per cent to 8 per cent on certain mineral royalty taxes. That is okay. To me, I expected the hon. Minister to make some policy statements that will bind these mining companies to add value within the jurisdiction of this country by processing whatever they mine out of our minerals so that we can create jobs.

Sir, in the PF’s own thinking, they have argued and, this time around, the hon. Minister put it in a more modest manner and said that we had promised that there would be 200,000 jobs created. He went on to say that about 120,000 jobs have been created. How do you support that particular statement? He also went ahead and said that they have created decent jobs.

Mr Speaker, what constitutes a decent job and what variables did they use because I belong to the Committee on Economic Affairs. We interrogated this issue last year when they made lofty statements that they had created jobs. We called witnesses like the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), Central Statistical Office (CSO) and the Bank of Zambia to help us understand where they had created these jobs and how they had arrived at these figures. All of them were not capable of telling us how. This was because there was a ministerial pronouncement.

Mr Speaker, is the casual worker who wakes up every day in the morning to go and dig a road that will be repaired such as the Great East Road considered to be owning a decent job? The answer is no. The figures that the hon. Minister is talking about should have been translated in Pay-As-You- Earn. We asked the ZRA to show us if their tax net has actually increased, but it failed to show us. Yet, we continue to live in this dream of self praise of “We, in the PF, have done this.”

Sir, let me now turn to the Eurobond. I am very saddened because US $120 million is what the PF Government has allocated for the Euro Bond.

Mr Sikazwe interjected.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, do not worry about them. Probably, they will not understand.

Mr Speaker: Order!

No, I have to. Can we give him an opportunity to debate in silence.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I was one of the advocates for Zambia Railways together with the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication when he was on this side of the House, to cancel the concession with the Railway Systems of Zambia. They put in US $120 million. I heard the Chief Executive of Zambia Railways saying that they wanted more money.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Just continue to address the Chair.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, they want US $ 120 million and yet, I have not seen much, but they want more money. They also put some Money in the Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station and I salute them for that. This is the reason, this afternoon, I offered to go and give answers to the hon. PF Ministers because the investment in electricity was a brainchild of the MMD. To date, we have had no update on the money they put into the Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station. All we have heard on that project is that this is how we are going. The Government has not said anything on the progress made on a project that is supposed to offer a long-lasting solution to the power deficit in this country.

Sir, what have they achieved under the Zambia Railways Infrastructure Improvement Programme? I have not seen anything. It is also on record that before the Government started applying this money, it was already paying interest for it. So, where is the prudence in holding money? At one time, when I asked the Government about it, I was told that it also had a local arrangement where it was making good use of that money and earning interest. What is the point in borrowing money and making it sit for one whole year unless you are deficient of planning?

Mr Speaker, I see that my time to debate is running out. So, let me now talk about the Constitution. The hon. Minister of Finance has allocated K29 million for this process. You will recall how this House almost became ungovernable at the time we were pushing for this draft document to be released. Activities in the Budget should be connected to the programmes in the Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF). However, I note that the allocation for the Constitution-making process has been reduced from K40 million in the 2014 Budget to K29 million in the 2015 Budget.

Sir, it would have been nice had the hon. Minister come to tell us that this is how much we spent in this particular fiscal year, and this is how much we have achieved. This is what my cousin, the hon. Member for Bweengwa, meant when he talked about the lack of performance assessment. There is absolutely no performance assessment or what I would call a self-assessment tool kit to see whether we are doing fine or not. It is business-as-usual. You put aside K29 million in order to simply tell us that we will soon bring the document once we have consulted. Consulted who? The greatest cost around this Constitution-making process, in my view, sits squarely on the goodwill of these colleagues of mine on your right hand side. I can assure you that posterity will judge them harshly because of the way they have mishandled the people’s document.

Sir, it is not enough to simply say, we shall tell, do not let politicians – What do you think our job here is? You think we came here just to smile at them? No. We came here to offer checks and balances, and without this group on your left hand side, these people would have damaged this country by now, I can tell you that. That is why under the Public Order and Safety, they put K4.7 million of the Budget. For what? So that they can take me back to jail? Is that what it is for? Is it so that they can employ their relatives and kingsmen in the Zambia Police Force? We have sufficient police officers in this country just like we have sufficient immigration people and enough Zambia Army personnel.

Mr Speaker, what public order are they talking about? I would have been happier had the Government allocated a bit more money to the education sector. I think credit must go where it is due. Hon. Minister of Finance, your allocation to the education sector is fair, but only to the extent that you need to discipline yourselves on what projects to embark on. There is so much going on at the same time. Children have no desks, and yet you are putting money into universities in one district. We will continue singing that the issue of priorities must always be in front of our consciences. It will not do to simply say we have met the threshold, which is good, but the devil is in the details. By the end of this fiscal year, we are going to assess you and ask what you have done. You will have put up a block at Paul Mushindo University, another block at Robert Makasa University, as well as at Chalimbana University and the University of Zambia (UNZA) but, at the end of it all, children will still not have bed space. You need to be focused. The way to do that is by listening to us. If you decide not to listen to us, that will be to your own detriment and peril. Right now, the signs of the times are everywhere that you, in the PF, have mixed priorities. You are just looking for by-elections and buying councillors. Tomorrow, there is a big function at Blue Gums where people are being bought and democracy is being disrespected.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!
(Debate adjourned)

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, and Chief Whip (Mr Mukanga): Sir, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1926 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 17th October, 2014.

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Debates - Thursday, 16th October, 2014

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