Debates - Friday, 15th April, 2015

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Friday, 15th April, 2015 

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week. 

Sir, on Tuesday, 19th April, 2016, the Business of the House will commence with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Youth and Sport on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Youth Empowerment Programme of the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development. Thereafter, the House will consider the Second Reading Stage of the following Bills: 

(a)    The Parliamentary Service Bill, 2016; and

(b)    The National Assembly (Powers and Privileges) (Amendment) Bill, 2016.
On Wednesday, 20th April, 2016, the Business of the House will begin with Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be. After that, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Communications, Transport, Works and Supply.

Sir, on Thursday, 21st April, 2016, the Business of the House will start with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by Presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the reports of the following Committees:

(a)    Committee on Communications, Transport, Works and Supply on the Report of the Auditor-General on the Government’s measures to reduce road traffic accidents; and

(b)    Committee on Estimates.

  Mr Speaker, on Friday, 22nd April, 2016, the Business of the House will commence with Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any. After that, the House will deal with presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will debate the Motion to adopt the Report of the Committee on Lands, Environment and Tourism. Then, the House will deal with any other business that may be outstanding.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

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ANNOUCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members will recall that earlier in the week as a result of a point of order which was raised by the hon. Member for Chongwe, I directed Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning to respond to it through an appropriate ministry and hon. Minister. The statement should have been given at the latest this morning, but due to some commitment on the part of the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection, I have granted her permission to render that statement instead, on Tuesday, next week.

_______

HER HONOUR THE VICE-PRESIDENT’S QUESTION TIME

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, during the Youth Day celebrations, a female youth was made to go through a traumatising moment. The women in Zambia are wondering why they have not heard Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning condemning that act or even imploring the police to act swiftly and bring the culprits to book. Why has Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning been silent on that issue?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, what happened during the Youth Day celebrations at the Civic Centre has been condemned by everyone, including me. Immediately after that incident, I issued a statement condemning the perpetrators of that violence on the poor girl. I believe that the police were also instructed to investigate the matter thoroughly. I hope that the police have done their work to help us know who was responsible for that insidious crime. 

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, is it still the Government’s position that the referendum will be held alongside the 2016 General Elections? If that is the case, how prepared is the Government, especially considering that elections are only four months away?

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Sir, the Government is ready to hold elections together with the referendum in August this year. The Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) has been mandated by the new Constitution to be the Referendum Committee. Therefore, the ECZ is still working on modalities on how to effect this mandate. Once the arrangements have been put in place, this House and the country, at large, will be informed about the sensitisation programmes regarding the referendum which will be undertaken.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe):  Mr Speaker, public perception, confidence and trust are some of the important ingredients for a person to earn respect in any society in the world.

Sir, some stakeholders have expressed concerns over the printing of ballot papers in Dubai by the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ), and the Government has given a position that the ECZ is an autonomous body and yet, the portfolio function of the supervision of this institution, as approved by this House, is under the Office the Vice-President. What is the Government doing in order for the ECZ to earn public confidence and trust bearing in mind the negative sentiments which have been expressed by people in as far as the printing of ballot papers in Dubai is concerned?

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, since the creation of the ECZ, it has always decided where to print the ballot papers. There is no sitting President who can direct or instruct the ECZ where to print the ballot papers. The particular choice of the ECZ to print ballot papers in Dubai has nothing to do with the Presidency or my office for that matter. Just like every Zambian, we read about that issue from the newspapers. There is no pressure whatsoever to where the ballot papers should be printed. The ECZ engages all stakeholders when it comes to election matters and the printing of ballot papers. This includes the Opposition, the Ruling Party and civil societies.

Interruptions

 Mr Speaker: Order!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Sir, the tender was for the printing of ballot papers was published in the newspapers. The company that won the tender will get the job to print the ballot papers. The tender was bade for by the Government Printers as well.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, in the recent past, we have witnessed a spate of accidents of many of our loved ones involving public transporters, buses and trucks. What is the Government doing to curb the spate of accidents through which we are losing the lives of our loved ones?

 The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, quite a number of measures are being taken by the Government through the Road Safety and Road Agency (RATSA) which includes the revocation of licences for the buses that have been involved in numerous accidents. The revision of the insurance cover for passengers and licences for bus owners and drivers is also being conducted. Therefore, the Government is not just watching this situation because it is incurring a lot of expenses in terms of taking care of the departed loved ones. This cannot continue. There should be some level of discipline on our roads.

 I thank you, Sir.

 Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba):  Mr Speaker, I worked with Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning in the United Party for National Development (UPND) under the leadership of the late Anderson Mazoka, a leader who was very illustrious, visionary and today if he was still alive, he should have been the fourth President of this great country.

Sir, is the intolerance, regionalism …

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: … and hatred which is being exhibited by people who believe that if someone does not belong to their Bantustan then he or she is politically stupid …

 Mr Speaker, I beg your pardon for using an unparliamentary word which I heard being used in this House by an hon. Member.

 Mr Speaker: Order!

Withdraw the word because I called for its withdrawal and did not accept its usage. By the way, what do you mean by the word ‘Bantustan’ because these things are being recorded.

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, there is a regional grouping which bases its politics on regionalism.

 Interruptions

 Mr Speaker: Order!

 You may continue.

 Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I want to find out form Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning whether it is right in this country for people to exercise their right to choose who they want to work with. I have chosen to work with a President whom I believe does not promote regionalism, is humble and is not running for office because he has got a rich background. Further, he does not believe that he knows it all. Why should people insult a person who decides to work with such a man? I want to know the view of Her Honor the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning over this matter.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, no Zambian should be intimidated for the political beliefs he or she holds.

Sir, Zambia was not there on the 23rd of October, 1964. It took men and women of courage to make this country what it is today and to bring the scattered tribal entities together. I remember, people used to refer to each other as a Bemba from the Northern Province or a Chikunda from somewhere in Feira, but then, after the 24th October, 1964, Zambia became a State. The founders of this nation worked tiressly to ensure that all the challenges which would sabotage the “One Zambia, One Nation” motto were dealt with. They made alliances which made it possible for people from different political parties to dialogue over their differences in order to consolidate the people’s belief in the “One Zambia, One Nation” motto. Many efforts were put in place to bring the people together, including the creation of the One Party State. All that was aimed at bringing harmony in the country so that all the ethnic groups could live together in peace. This is what the current President is trying to establish in our country.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Sir, he is trying to promote co-existence among the different political players and to ensure that people are given a chance to choose a party of their choice. It is very important for all Zambians to believe in the “One Zambia, One Nation” motto and to work towards harmonising the different political ideologies on different issues in order to promote the sustainable development of our country.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, what is the Government doing about the ritual murders that have been taking place in the country? How far have the police gone in bringing the perpetrators to book?

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, the ritual murders that are taking place in the country have posed an issue that needs to be challenged and condemned by every Zambian. It is not pleasing for the Government to see its nationals dying in the hands of criminals on a …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning:… daily basis like what happened a few weeks ago in George Compound. The President has instructed the security wings to look into this matter and find the culprits. When this is done, we hope an end will be put to this scourge that has gripped our country. This is a new phenomenon in Zambia. We are not used to seeing Zambians being killed on the streets, especially regarding the frequency at which this is happening. It is very disheartening.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, Zambia got independent in 1964 when the United National Independence Party (UNIP) took over Government from the colonial masters. UNIP used to inflict pain on the Zambians using voter’s cards so that they could only vote for one person. It seems the current Government is also employing the same strategy. In the Western Province, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is subjecting the people to producing voter’s cards in order for them to acquire maize which should be given to the Zambians without any attached condition. Why are the western people ... 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Miyutu: … using voter’s cards in order to receive relief food?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I am sure when you say the western people, you mean the people of the Western Province.

Interruptions

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) which distributes food in the country is under my office. This is the first time I am hearing about the situation which is being described …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order! Order!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: … by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central. Even though I am not aware of the situation which is being described by Hon. Miyutu, I still doubt that is what is happening in the areas where relief food is being distributed. This is because relief food is not only being distributed in Kalabo, but also in forty-eight other districts. We have not received any reports of such a nature from any of these districts. So, Kalabo must be unique. We are going to investigate the matter in order to determine the truth.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chungu (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, yesterday, we heard that the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has been abolished. The fund helped the Zambians in many sectors including education, health and home affairs. I would like Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning to comment on the matter.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, this Government has no intention to abolish the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Sir, there just has been a delay in the disbursement of the CDF. It is not true that it has been abolished. I believe there are some hon. Members of Parliament who take pleasure in politicising everything …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: … and do not appreciate some constraints which sometimes the Government goes through. I can assure the hon. Members that the CDF will be given …

Hon. UPND Members: When?

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: We will inform the House …

Mr Speaker: Order! 

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, when the funds will be available, the CDF will be disbursed. The Government has not said that it is going to abolish it.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, in the spirit of, “One Zambia, One Nation”, is there anything wrong with any Zambian who comes from either the Northern, Southern, Central, Western or North-Western Provinces becoming a President?

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether that was a statement or question.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Maybe, let me intervene. The questioner is asking whether there is anything wrong for any part of the country to yield a Republican President.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, any Zambian from any part of the country …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: … can aspire to be a President of the country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let her complete responding.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, this does not mean …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Continue Your Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, what Zambians usually object to is when a leader uses tribe …

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: … or regional belonging …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: … in politics. All Zambians are equal in the eyes of God. For that reason, the Constitution …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning:… of the country rules against discrimination on the basis of tribe, gender and age. This means that anyone can aspire for Presidency as long as the person is a Zambian. So, these insinuations that leadership has to come from certain provinces are not true.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, if an individual proves that he or she can marshal support from all the provinces of Zambia, he or she can be President. One cannot enter State House with the backing of one province or district.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, the President has to be voted for by all the Zambians.

Hon. Government Members: Yes! Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development: Sir, that is why Zambians have come up with the 50 per cent plus one Clause in the new Constitution to ensure that …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: … a person who becomes the President of Zambia has the majority votes from all Zambians …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: … which is an endorsement from all Zambians in the country.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I would like Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning to shade some light on the recent happenings in the country. Many times, we have heard prophets of doom go to town and talk about the little negatives, which they amplify. Unfortunately, such people forget to celebrate the good that happens in this country. When the Zambian Kwacha was ‘misbehaving’ and doing badly, some people went to town and said all sorts of things against this hard working Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, now that the Zambian Kwacha is performing better, they are quiet. They have since taken it upon themselves to say that the appreciation of the kwacha is not a result of the hard working Patriotic Front (PF) Government and the President.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chilangwa: Sir, the nation would like Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning to shed more light on the positive things which we must be celebrating every day.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, the appreciation of the kwacha should be applauded by all Zambians, including those who wish to see their country go under for political expedience.

Dr Kaingu: Shame!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Sir, the appreciation of the local currency is indicating a positive development in the overall market. There is renewed confidence in the Zambian economy from investors. This can be seen in the appreciation of the Government’s ability to manage the country’s economy coupled with the measures which have been taken to rectify the problems affecting the economy. We can see the resilience of the Zambian people in the way they have handled the drought, power shortages, falling copper prices and the overall slowness in the Chinese economy. There is an improved confidence in the economic outlook of this country as is evidenced by the fact that Glencore, a huge conglomerate is investing US $1.1 billion in the mining sector. That is a sign of confidence.

Sir, secondly, the austerity measures that the Government has taken, which have resulted in controlling costs have also increased confidence in the Zambian economy. The stable ratings by the rating agencies are also a sign of confidence in this economy. As for the fluctuation of the Kwacha, I want to say that insinuations that the Bank of Zambia (BoZ) has pumped money into the market are not true. The reasons that I have given are what have contributed to the appreciation of the Zambia Kwacha.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, one of the many ways and areas in which the Government has lost money, which could have been saved, is through the printing of ballot papers. The Patriotic Front (PF) Government is on record as having caused, deliberately or otherwise, an unprecedented number of by-elections and by deduction, an unprecedented cost to this nation. The PF is also on record as having said that when it came into power, it would ensure it capitalises and modernises the Government Printers. To date, this has not been done. When is the PF Government going to modernise and recapitalise the Government Printers so that we can save the much-needed resources in Zambia?

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, this Government is determined to modernise the Government Printers. As I speak, new state-of-the-art type of machinery has been installed at the Government Printers. There are one or two items which are required by the Government Printers in order for it to be in a position to print ballot papers. If all things go well, we may print our ballot papers in the country. So, for now, the Government Printers is being modernised by this Government.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, earlier, we heard the explanation regarding the term ‘Bantustan’. How would Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning describe somebody who sits among the Bantustans and goes on to talk ill of the same group to which he belongs?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, I do not know what the hon. Member is referring to because there are no Bantustans in Zambia.

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Sir, if the hon. Member wants to create one such grouping, it will be up to him and others who believe in Bantustanism. We all know that Bantustans did not even last in South Africa where they were introduced. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Speaker, I am not sure if the hon. Member wishes to have a club where they can start Bantustanism.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

_______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF MASAITI DISTRICT ADMINISTRATION OFFICES

329. Mr Katambo (Masaiti) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a)    when the construction of the Masaiti District Administration offices would commence;

(b)    who the contractor for the project was;

(c)    what the cost of the project was; and

(d)    what the time frame for undertaking the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the construction of the district administration offices in Masaiti shall commence now that land has been allocated for the proposed new district administrative centre. Survey drawings for the old Masaiti Boma area have been completed, but the provincial administration decided to relocate the new district to an area near the Kapiri Mposhi/Ndola Highway.

Sir, the contractor shall be identified after tender evaluation. The contract sum shall be known after the selection of the successful bidder. As regards the time frame, this project should be done within ten to twelve months.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, ... 

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to raise this very serious point of order.

Sir, is this House in order to continue allowing Hon. Shakafuswa to be a member of the United Party for National Development (UPND) when he has informed this House and the nation that he no longer associates with the UPND …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Mr Mwiimbu: … and that he does not want to belong to this political party? He has indicated, categorically, that he has crossed the Floor. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwiimbu: Is he in order to continue being with us on this side of the House and to belong to the UPND, which he has called a Bantustan party, when he has crossed over to the other side of the House? 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! Order!

Hon. PF Members: Guy Scott!

Mr Speaker: Order! 

There have been many shifts in loyalties to political parties. Personally, I get amazed at these shifts, which are in public domain. These shifts have been declared at press conferences, …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … in individual statements and a variety of ways and manner of debate. So, in light of this very peculiar political culture, I am very slow to declare seats vacant on the basis of this oddity in political behaviour. When something express or cogent happens, for example, writing a letter to me that you no longer belong to a particular political party, I will not hesitate to declare such a seat vacant. I need something more cogent. There have been a lot of shifts and I do not want to go into detail.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Who was on the Floor?

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the shifting of the administration from ...

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order on the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba ...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! 

Let the hon. Member speak.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, this is a point of order on the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba, Mr Jonas Shakafuswa.

Mr Speaker, I should have raised this point of order contemporaneously, but could not based on the rules that you set that during Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time you will not entertain points of order.

Sir, not long ago, there was an altercation arising from events that took place in this House when the hon. Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development, Mr Musukwa, was answering questions during the Questions for Oral Answer session. The hon. Minister showered praises on the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba, who got ecstatic and lifted a Patriotic Front (PF) symbol in the Chamber which incensed the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central, Mr Mweetwa, and an altercation ensued.

Mr Speaker, I recall that I was outside in the lobbies trying to put my thoughts together for a debate on the Motion that was raised by Hon. Kabinga Pande. In trying to calm the situation, you actually observed that I was not seated in my place.

Sir, you did not make a ruling based on the reaction of the hon. Member of Parliament for Choma Central for he left the House after you even ordered him to remain seated, which was against procedure.

Mr Speaker, it does not take away the fact that the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba showed a political party symbol for his new party, the Patriotic Front (PF), and it was clear for everyone to see that he did that, now that we are live on television although we are informed that because your eye was concentrating on the response that the hon. Minister was giving, you may have missed that event.

Sir, to add insult to injury, just today, the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba, used the word ‘Bantustan’ and I recall, in your wisdom, you asked him to explain what that terminology meant. I have with me, the Oxford Dictionary. It is sad to see that the hon. Member is not in the House. I do not know where he got the definition of the word ‘Bantustan’ which he explained before your respectful Chair. However, this is what the word ‘Bantustan’ precisely means:

“African historical derogatory remark, a partially self-governing area set aside during the period of apartheid for a particular indigenous African grouping so-called homeland.”

Sir, the key word here is ‘derogatory’ ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Read that for the second time for my benefit.

Mr Nkombo: I will read that again. Just allow me to find it because I had closed the dictionary. Since I am a teacher of English, it is not a difficult thing for me to find it. I have found it.

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, ‘Bantustan’ means:

“African historical derogatory, a partially self-governing area set aside during the period of apartheid for a particular indigenous African people so-called homeland.”

 Sir, for easy reference, the word that I plucked from there is ‘derogatory’. 

Sir, I have with me the 2006 Members Hand Book. From page 22 to 23, paragraph 24, there is a list of Parliamentary etiquette. Page 21, No. 9, says:

“Members should not shout slogans in the House.”

Sir, also, on page 23, paragraph 24(c), it says:

“Members are not allowed to use offensive expressions about the conduct of proceedings in Parliament.”

Mr Speaker, is Hon. Shakafuswa, the Member of Parliament for Katuba, in order to continue taking this path of first displaying political symbols in the Chamber, which is prohibited, and now to go further and label us who are seated here (pointing at the UPND benches) Bantustan and to deliberately or ignorantly try to define the word ‘Bantustan’ in order to misguide the listeners? 

I seek your ruling on this matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order, order.

First of all, I will deal with the first part of your point of order.

The first part of the point of order cannot be addressed today. The reason, I think, was already alluded to it by yourself, that it is not contemporaneous with the event in question. In fact, the first part, in all fairness should have been barred from Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time because it took place on Wednesday. It cannot be brought to the House today on Friday.

I think in another ruling on a point of order raised by the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, which I read out in the last meeting, I declined to deal with a conduct which had happened many days earlier. Just for the record, I was ready to address that issue, as a matter of fact, in a manner you would like me to this morning. Unfortunately, in the midst of my ruling, the hon. Member for Choma Central walked out despite my repeated pleas for him to take his seat. It seemed that there was intra party violence almost erupting. I was seeking your help, of course, when you were doing some research. I take your point, but I needed your help at that point. There was disorder in your political grouping. In fact, I should not say hope, because it is deprecated, but at an opportune time, if ever it arises again, I will deal with it.

I must say in passing that, it is actually a sign of disrespect for a Member to raise a point of order and then before a ruling is rendered, walk out.

As for the second part of your point of order, I am glad that you have brought a very useful aid in the form of a dictionary in defining a Bantustan. I did ask the hon. Member what Bantustan meant. He profiled his own understanding which clearly is incongruent with the definition you have adduced. The definition is very clear. This term refers to a particular political system. I want to take the definition in its entirety. Yes, there is a derogatory element in it, admittedly, but it also refers to a political system of apartheid and the homelands that were created. That is where the derogatory nature emerges. 

So, yes, the response given by the hon. Member for Katuba is not appropriate, in terms of explaining to me what this term ‘Bantustan’ means. I also find it curious that this term which has been employed previously and I also recall, I am part of the citizens, and some citizens even donning attire describing them as such.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musukwa: Ema Speaker aya.

Mr Speaker: For the record, let us avoid this term for one reason and that it is inappropriate to our situation. It is misplaced all altogether. I agree with you, it is totally misplaced. It does not refer to a situation which the hon. Member has in mind if we go by your definition (pointing at the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central). Since it is misplaced, I mean it is just the misapplication of the word which means something different. It cannot even apply it to our political situation. It is a much specialised term. I hope we will all take advantage of your reference to the definition that this word not be adopted in any way at all.

That is my ruling.

Therefore, I will simply put it that the reference was out of order.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I partly come from Masaiti…

Mr Sikazwe: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The contribution of the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpongwe has been interfered with twice. In all fairness, let us allow him to finish first.

Hon. Member for Mpongwe, continue.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, since I come from Masaiti, I know that there are many needs there. The officers who are operating at the district administration in Masaiti are not stranded with offices whereby scarce public resource can be channelled towards the construction of new offices at the expense of the many needs of the people of Masaiti. Is the construction of the new office block which will also go with houses a priority such that other needs which require resources should suffer?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, this has been a persistent request from Masaiti. If it is not a priority to Mpongwe, it is a national priority.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Ikeleng’i.

Mr Sikazwe: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): How?

Before I speak, iwe.

Mr Speaker, …

Mr Sikazwe: On a point of order, Mr Speaker

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Speaker, my point of order is for the sake of clarification.

Is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central in order to mislead the House and the nation at large…

Mr Nkombo: Ikalafye panshi, iwe chimudala.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Nkombo: Nalakuchena, ine (pointing at Hon. Sikazwe).

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order.

Hon. Nkombo, that is not an appropriate response.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: That is not appropriate.

Mr Sikazwe: Mwana, ngawaamba ukusonta ine, ishiba ati ndimubi, ine.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, just wait.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, can you sit down.

Mr Sikazwe resumed his seat.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Let us have some order.

I know that this is a difficult season.

Laughter

Mr Mukata entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: May the hon. Deputy Minister, continue.

Mr Sikazwe: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central in order to mislead the nation, and the House at large, by telling us that the gesture which was made by our colleague, Hon. Shakafuswa, is the symbol for the Patriotic Front (PF) when its symbol is a boat?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: For us, the boat is what appears on the ballot paper. When we go to elections, the people of Zambia will be looking for a boat and not for a fist. It is they who have chikwanja.

Laughter

Hon. UPND Member: Kwanja.

Mr Speaker: What do you mean by kwanja. 

Mr Sikazwe: Zanja or whatever it is called.

Mr Speaker: What do you mean by what you have said?

Mr Sikazwe: Sir, I am talking about a raised palm as a symbol. For the PF, the symbol is a boat. I want that to be put on record. Is Hon. Nkombo in order to accuse his colleague raising a symbol for the PF? I seek your serious ruling.

Interruptions

Mr Kasonso: PF quality!

Ms Kalima: Ema Minister aya!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, your point of order is misplaced. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I have already stated that I will not rule on something that happened on Wednesday. Anyway, you cannot raise a point of order on a point of order.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: He needs a seminar.

Mr Speaker: These symbols and all these issues that are now delaying our business are not part of the order of proceedings. So, let us veer off that route. I acknowledge the season, but let us use other platforms. There are many platforms outside the Chamber to mount these contests. I will be persuaded to be very strict about reference to political matters now. I will be very strict because we are wasting time and taxpayers’ money.

The hon. Member for Ikeleng’i may continue.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

No points of order. We have wasted a lot of time.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, let me take advantage of this opportunity to welcome back my colleague, Hon. Mukata, to the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD).

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Works and Supply on the need to shift administration offices from wherever they are to the current site. Does this Government have any money at all when most structures or projects which it has proposed in the last five years, especially in Ikeleng’i, have not been worked on at all? Most of the projects are still at foundation level. Does the Government have the money to start shifting offices which require new office blocks instead of improving what is already in place?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the identification of priorities is not done by our ministry, but by the district and provincial administrations. As regards the construction of the structure in Masaiti, there is money available for it.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katambo: Mr Speaker, let me state from the outset that the construction of this district administration in Masaiti is a priority. It might not be a priority for my brother who represents the people of Mpongwe Parliamentary Constituency. The people in Masaiti are expectant that this project will commence in the ten to twelve months period the hon. Minister has indicated. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister whether the ministry will emphasise to the contractors that the locals, our dear men and women in Masaiti Parliamentary Constituency, be engaged for them to benefit from this project.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Masaiti for emphasising that this project is a priority and we totally agree with him. We would also like to assure him that we will tell the contractor, as we always do, to employ local people when constructing these offices.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

RESIDENT JUDGES FOR HIGH COURTS

393. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Justice:

(a)    whether there were resident Judges in all towns where the High Court sat;

(b)    if not, which towns had no resident Judges; and

(c)    when resident Judges would be deployed to the affected towns to ensure speedy dispensation of justice.

The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, apart from Lusaka, Kabwe, Ndola, Kitwe and Livingstone, there are no resident Judges in the other towns where the High Court sits. 

Mr Speaker, the other towns where the High Court sits, but have no resident Judges are Chipata, Mansa, Kasama, Mongu, Solwezi and Mazabuka.

Sir, resident Judges will be deployed progressively to these towns when infrastructure to house these courts is put up.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the construction of the infrastructure and deployment of resident Judges will be done progressively. Is he aware that due to the non-availability of resident Judges in these towns, justice is not quickly availed to the people...

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Take your seats both of you, hon. Members.

Today, Friday, 15th April, 2016, I will not allow any further points of order.

The hon. Member for Kalabo Central may continue.

Laughter

Mr Musukwa: Judge Matibini!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the lack of infrastructure for the Judges in the towns where the High Court sits negatively affects the people who are supposed to receive justice? What is the Government’s plan as regards enhancing the quick dispensation of justice to the people of these areas considering that there is no infrastructure for the Judges?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware that the lack of resident Judges in different towns affects the speedy dispensation of justice. To ameliorate that situation, the Judiciary sends circuit courts in some areas on a monthly basis. However, as a long-term measure, we are committed to finding resources to put up structures so that resident magistrates can sit there for the benefit of the Zambian people.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that Judges would have been allocated on a permanent basis if infrastructure was available in the provincial centres. The Northern Province has been pursuing a plan to set up High Court facilities there. What specific infrastructure would make it easy for the Judiciary to assign permanent Judges to the provincial capitals? 

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the infrastructure that would be required is appropriate court rooms, Judges’ chambers and accommodation for the Judges and the support staff.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, as a matter of interest, what is the total number of Judges that we have as a nation at the moment? I hope the hon. Minister has the figure on his fingertips. 

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, as at now, we have forty-nine Judges. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, when answering the question by the hon. Member for Kalabo Central, the hon. Minister indicated that lack of infrastructure has made it impossible for Judges to be resident in some towns where court sessions are held. He also mentioned that the Government is yet to build houses for the Judges. I am aware that effective next month, the Government will start giving housing allowance to judicial officers. Is the lack of infrastructure the impediment to Judges, being resident in some towns? Is it not the inadequate number of Judges which has made it impossible for Judges to be residents in towns where there is no infrastructure, but court sessions are held? 

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the over-arching issue is infrastructure. Once we have the infrastructure, we will deploy resident Judges. A Bill will soon be brought to this House in the course of this session to increase the number of Judges. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister has seen that the construction of accommodation for our Judges is a priority, when will the construction of infrastructure be on top of the list of priorities for the Government? Is the construction going to be done in the coming year? Has the Government made any special arrangement for the construction of infrastructure to take place? 

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the dispensation of justice is always on top of our list. The only constraint is finances. We are already trying hard to see how we can raise resources to put up court infrastructure. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, in order for us to appreciate the situation, could the hon. Minister care to share with this House, the number of Judges ideally, that this country needs. 

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, well, the population of Zambia is increasing and the matters going to court are increasing. So, the number of Judges is progressively increased to deal with the increase in the number of matters going to court. So, as I indicated earlier in response to the question by the hon. Member for Mpongwe, at the moment, we have forty-nine Judges. We are proposing to increase that number by eleven. When the Judiciary assesses the situation, it will advise when to increase the number. 

I thank you, Sir. 

_________

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON YOUTH AND SPORT

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Youth and Sport for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 6th April, 2016. 

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Chilangwa (Kawambwa): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion. 

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, in accordance with its terms of reference, your Committee considered the topical issue of the effectiveness of the juvenile justice system in Zambia, and the Action-Taken Report contained in the Committee’s report for the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. 

Sir, as hon. Members are privy to the contents of your Committee’s report, I will just highlight a few salient issues contained in your Committee’s report.

Mr Speaker, the state of the juvenile justice system in the country has a significant influence on the future behaviour of the children and the young offenders who interacted with it. According to the international standards set out in the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child, a juvenile justice system should aim at encouraging specialisation in juvenile justice practices and developing a distinct system of criminal justice that treats juveniles in a manner appropriate to their age and level of maturity. Most of the countries in the world have distinct legislation covering procedures for juveniles who come into conflict with the law. In the case of Zambia, the Juveniles Act Chapter 53 of the Laws of Zambia is the main piece of legislation that governs juveniles who come into conflict with the law. You may wish to note that this Act acknowledges the need for special treatment of children and incorporates the basic fundamental aspects of juvenile justice such as separation of juveniles from adults during incarceration, the creation of juvenile courts, the need for rehabilitation and the prohibition of harsh and cruel treatment. However, these provisions often fall short of compatibility with international instruments such as the Convention on the Rights of the Child and are hardly applied in practice. 

Mr Speaker, stakeholders informed your Committee that the study on the effectiveness of the juvenile justice system is timely, given the many challenges that children face whenever they come into conflict with the law. The stakeholders also revealed that this portfolio has for a very long time been neglected. 

Sir, your Committee notes that the high level of juvenile delinquency is clear evidence of the failure to provide a protective environment for children. These children, once arrested and appear in court, are sent to correctional facilities such as Katombora Reformatory School, Nakambala Approved School or even to prison, which serves to exclude them rather than to help their rehabilitation and community integration. Criminalising child-offenders only increases the chances of becoming adult offenders in future. 

In view of the foregoing, allow me, Sir, to highlight some of the challenges facing the juvenile justice system in Zambia: 

    Delay in the Confirmation of Sentences

Sir, one of the problems which has beset the juvenile justice system is the delay in the confirmation of cases relating to juvenile offenders. The Juveniles Act provides that an approved school order and a reformatory order issued against an offender by a Juvenile Court have to be confirmed by the High Court. This means that the record of proceedings has to be transmitted to the High Court from the Subordinate Court, once the matter has been concluded. The purpose of this is to ensure that the sentence that the lower court mete out is in the best interest of the juvenile offender. In practice, this system has proved problematic in that, more often than not, there are delays in the transmission of the records. This increases the time that the juveniles wait in detention while pending sentencing. This situation is not ideal as juveniles are kept for long periods of time in prison pending confirmation. 

Access to Legal Representation

Mr Speaker, access to legal representation is a problem that affects the majority of persons who come into conflict with the law. This is more so with juvenile offenders. The juveniles are in a precarious position in that unlike adults, who can find resources to retain a lawyer, they do not have the capacity to do so and are at the mercy of the State or their parents or guardians. The lack of access to legal representation is exacerbated by the fact that the Legal Aid Board does not have the capacity to provide free legal services to all who need it. The staff restriction at the institution means that they can only focus on cases in the High Court. As a result, the majority of the juveniles in the Subordinate Court are unrepresented. Retaining a private lawyer is costly. The exorbitant legal fees charged prevent juveniles from accessing representation. In addition, legal practitioners are usually found in the main urban areas. Consequently, persons who live in rural areas are unable to access such legal services. You may wish to note that in 2013, 62 per cent of juveniles had no legal representation during trial. 

    Inadequate Prison Facilities 

Sir, prison infrastructure is mostly pre-colonial and has not been upgraded to cater for the growth in population since Independence. The non-expansion of the prison infrastructure has led to massive overcrowding in the prisons. The conditions are inhumane and pose a health risk to the inmates. Due to the inadequate space, remanded inmates and convicts are usually kept in the same cells when they ought not to be.  

Sir, there are usually no formal structures that are set aside for juveniles to be separated from the adult prison population. In most instances, juveniles are held in the same cells as the adult prisoners. In other cases, an improvised separation which is not adequate as the juveniles can still interact with the adult prisoners is made. This goes against the best principles of juvenile welfare in detention centres. 

Fragmented Legal Framework Relating to Juveniles 

Sir, there is uncertainty on the definition of a child in the Zambian legal system as different pieces of legislation have varying definitions of who a child is. This causes problems and sets about uncertainty. For example, a child is defined as a sixteen-year-old in the Penal Code while in the Juvenile Act, it is an eighteen-year-old. Therefore, there is a need to have one definition that will cut across the board and not definitions that will vary depending on what Act one is relying upon. 
         
       Lack of Sensitisation among Law Enforcement Agencies on Juveniles Rights

Mr Speaker, law enforcement officers generally treat juvenile offenders in the same manner they treat adult offenders, which has the unfortunate result of the juveniles’ rights being violated. For example, in the police service, only officers in the Victim Support Unit (VSU) have been trained to have knowledge on how to treat juveniles, whereas the general Criminal Investigations Division (CID) does not have such knowledge. 

Sir, your Committee is concerned that the delay by the High Court to issue confirmation orders has resulted in the unnecessary long detention periods of juveniles. Your Committee urges the Government, as a matter of extreme urgency, to amend the Juvenile Act in order to transfer the power of issuing confirmation orders from the High Court to magistrates in-charge of provinces, that is, the chief resident magistrates and principal resident magistrates. This will expedite the confirmation orders and, subsequently, reduce the long detention periods of juveniles. 

Mr Speaker, the staffing levels at the Legal Aid Board have hampered legal representation for most vulnerable juveniles, resulting in them losing cases. It is regrettable to note that in 2013, 62 per cent of child offenders had no legal representation, owing to the low staffing levels at the Legal Aid Board. 

Sir, your Committee recommends that the Government should recruit lawyers at the Legal Aid Board in order for them to represent the juveniles. In addition, the Government must put up modalities for paralegals and social workers in order to assist in the implementation of legal socialisation projects as well as legal education and broader community awareness. 

Sir, your Committee is concerned with the number and physical state of reformatory schools. In addition, the current situation whereby the facilities are being managed by two separate ministries has not helped matters. Your Committee recommends that the Government must roll out the construction of correctional centres in each province in order to reduce the cost of transporting child offenders and create easy access to the facilities. Further, the facilities must be run by one ministry. 

Mr Speaker, your Committee observes that the multiplicity of legislation for juveniles and the absence of the domestication of ratified international conventions, such as the Convention on the Rights of a Child, have significantly contributed to the mismanagement of the juvenile portfolio in the country. 

Sir, your Committee recommends, as a matter of extreme urgency, that the Government should expedite the process of enacting the Children’s Code Bill without any further delay. Your Committee is cognisant of the fact that the Bill, once enacted, seeks not only to harmonise the many pieces of legislation governing the juvenile justice system, but also to domesticate the International Convention on the Rights of the Child, among other objectives. 

Sir, the absence of co-ordinated crime prevention programmes for juveniles has contributed to the rising number of child offenders. Your Committee strongly urges the Government to take the lead in initiating and co-ordinating the implementation of crime prevention programmes in collaboration with other non-State actors such as non-governmental organisations (NGOs), international organisations and co-operating partners. As the saying goes, prevention is better than cure.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to pay tribute to all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee for providing the necessary information. Let me also take this opportunity to convey my appreciation to all the members of your Committee for their commitment and co-operation during the session. Your Committee also expresses its gratitude to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to it.

Sir, finally, we are grateful to you for the guidance you rendered throughout your Committee’s deliberations.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now order later?

Mr Chilangwa: Now, Mr Speaker.

Sir, I wish to second the Motion that has been ably moved by the Chairperson of the Committee.

Mr Speaker, your Committee realises that the capacity to deliver a juvenile justice system by most key State and non-State actors such as the Zambia Police Force, Zambia Prisons Service, social welfare and the National Prosecuting Authority is not adequate. However, your Committee wishes that you take note of the fact that this has been going on for the last fifty years and cannot be blamed on the current Patriotic Front (PF) Government.

Sir, therefore, your Committee strongly recommends that the Government initiates a robust training programme on the juvenile justice system for all major actors in order to have the much-needed capacity for persons involved in the dispensation of juvenile justice. In addition, the training must be ongoing owing to the high turnover in most institutions.

Mr Speaker, it is saddening that the inadequate promotion of the alternative disposal modes of juvenile cases has significantly contributed to long trials in most juvenile cases. In light of this, your Committee recommends, as a matter of urgency, that the Government should review the Juvenile Act in order to include pre-trial diversion as an alternative to trial. Diversion must not be at the discretion of the court, but must be an option at every stage of trial.

  Sir, your Committee also observes that the lack of private partnerships in the sector vis-à-vis establishment of the necessary facilities such as child correctional centres and other care facilities has contributed to the limited facilities in the country. Your Committee, therefore, urges the PF Government that after it wins the elections in August and to be precise ...

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, just take a seat.

Laughter 

Mr Speaker: I really do not want to ask for a script, but do what is honourable.

Mr Chilangwa: Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Speaker: Sorry, I want to be clear about this. Is that a text position of your Committee that after the PF wins the elections?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr Speaker: Is that the position of the Committee?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, what I have are talking notes. I am talking to them.

Mr Speaker: No. Take a seat.

Mr Chilangwa resumed his seat.

Mr Speaker: Do what is honourable. Withdraw what you said.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the part which talks about the 2011 General Elections.

Mr Speaker: 2016 you mean?

Laughter 

Mr Chilangwa: Yes, 2016, Sir. I will proceed.

Sir, your Committee urges the Government to expedite the construction and establishment of correctional child facility centres in the future. Your Committee is very confident that the Government is equal to the task of ensuring that it continues with infrastructure development in all of its programmes.

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, allow me to thank you, the Clerk of the National Assembly and all her staff for the guidance rendered to the Committee as it carried out its work.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to commend the Committee and the Chairperson, in particular, for moving the Motion so well. I would also like to thank the seconder, although he was not inspiring.

Laughter 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, I support your Committee’s finding in the report. However, allow me to veer off a little in order to make the point that I would like to amplify as I debate.

Mr Speaker, many of the debates that we hear in the House are focused on curing the ills that afflict our country. I will give an example of the Ministry of Health, just to come back to the point which I am trying to put across. We always cry for more health facilities at the expense of preventing diseases that render our health facilities inadequate.

Sir, coming to the issue of the juvenile justice system in Zambia, after going through your Committee’s report, I noted that the system is overwhelmed because the number of juvenile offenders is increasing every day.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, I want to borrow the observation of the Committee which is recorded on page 16 of your Committee’s report which reads:

“Your Committee observes that the absence of co-ordinated crime prevention programs for juveniles has contributed to the rising number of child offenders”. 

Sir, that statement is very important because I believe that rather than crying for more juvenile correction centres, we should be focusing our efforts on preventing those juvenile offences. I say so because if we concentrate on the other side, these offences will increase and the overwhelming nature of the situation will not come to an end. 

Sir, in Zambia, we are very lucky because we have a very rich culture. We have values that we have since abandoned which, if embraced again, can help us to address the problem. For example, when we were growing up, considering the area where I come from, we were taught at a very tender age that stealing was an offence. When we wanted to fight, we would have to go very far from the villages because we could not fight in the presence of elders. 

Mr Speaker, what is obtaining today? I witnessed an incidence where a colleague of mine was telling his child that if somebody attacked him at school, he should hit back harder. That is what we are teaching our children now. Now, how do we expect our juvenile justice system to accommodate this high level of crime that we are experiencing in this country? While I agree with what this report states, I think the issue of the crime wave that has increased should have been amplified. Even if we build ten more reformatory centres, if we do not deal with the root cause, which is why our children take pleasure in committing offences, we will not solve this problem. 

Mr Speaker, not long ago, this country was treated to a spate of crimes in the form of the production of pornographic materials by young people. Some of us read the comments that accompanied those video clips. We saw that those people were hero worshiped. This is not as it should be. 

Mr Speaker, in my opinion, we should be crying for preventive measures. What are those measures? Allow me to share a few of them with the House.  How many recreational centres do we have for our children to occupy their minds and discourage them from committing crimes? That is the question that I want to throw to the Government of the day. What has happened to all those play parks that we had around, for example, in the City of Lusaka? In the absence of those recreational facilities, what do we expect our children to do? Children have active minds. They have the energy which must be dispensed in one way or the other in the absence of football pitches or basket ball courts. Where do you expect our children to take their energy? Of course, they will commit crime and we are going to be crying that we do not have enough Judges to deal with the cases.

Sir, if you look at the catalogue of challenges that your Committee lists on page 10, all of them to me, amount to just the system being overwhelmed with the number of these juvenile offenders. All the governments that are coming up now, even those of us that are aspiring to come into Government, are preaching free education but, is it realistic? Have we seen free education in Zambia? 

Mr Mwale chatting with Mr Yaluma. 

Mr Hamudulu: Hon. Minister, I give you respect. Why do you not just listen to what I am saying?

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Member. That is not your function.

Mr Hamudulu: I see, Sir. 

Interruptions

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, I thought I was making a lot of sense, actually.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Well, do not make that judgment.

Mr Hamudulu: Oh I see. Sometimes sense can be nonsense to those who do not understand what we are talking about.

Mr Speaker: Continue debating. 

Mr Hamudulu: Sir, that is why Hon. Namulambe said that some people are very dull.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, continue debating the issues at hand otherwise, I will curtail your contribution.

Laughter

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, I withdraw that statement and continue with my debate. What I am saying is that we should make free education a reality. I am saying so because now it costs money to go to school, but it does not cost anything to commit a crime. Let us make free education a reality in Zambia so that the children can spend most of the time at school rather than …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, before we broke off, I was talking about the need for recreational facilities for our children so that they can expend their energy there instead of commiting crime. I was saying that there is a need to make free education a reality because at the moment, education costs money, but committing a crime does not. Thus, children find it very easy to get involved in crime. 

Mr Speaker, with regard to recreational facilities, I may have been young, but I remember that we used to have social welfare centres in towns. Every child was yearning to find itself at such centres whenever it had free time from school, but those things are no more today. Where do we expect our children to go when they are not in school? There are no football pitches and basket ball courts around. This gives children an opportunity to commit crimes even when they are good children.

Sir, talking about youth empowerment, I want to refer to the work of the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development. In my opinion, although I am looking at it from a distance, I think this ministry has been reduced to Ministry of Football. There is so much the ministry can do to improve the welfare of children other than just administering football. That is why we have the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ). Let FAZ deal with football issues. The ministry must have a bigger role to play in the lives of our children and the youths. 

Sir, on page 20 of your Committee’s report, it is indicated that a workshop was conducted, where the empowerment fund was discussed. The attendants were the District Commissioners (DCs), town clerks, council secretaries, directors of planning and district planning officers. For me, that was a miscalculation because these are not the people who need to deal with issues to do with youth empowerment. These people have their prescribed roles. The moment a DC is mentioned, we are talking politics. It is for this reason that this fund has been politicised. We need to depoliticise the application of this fund.

Sir, out of a 1,000 youths in a district, only 200 youths that belong to the Ruling Party are empowered. What do we expect the remaining 800 to be doing? They will find themselves committing crime. Who is mandated to combat crime? It is the Government of the day. In short, the Government is shooting itself in the foot by empowering a few and leaving out the majority, the Government is not doing the right thing.

Sir, if the Government is going to rely on the DCs, I can assure it that it will fail to improve the welfare of the youths because the DCs look at things from a political point of view. I want to appeal to the Government to depoliticise the use of the fund so that it can cater for everyone across the board. If it does not do that, it is will find it difficult to combat crime among juveniles.

Mr Speaker, earlier on, I talked about the rich culture which we have as Zambians. If our traditional rulers continued imparting family and cultural values that some of us grew up with, I can assure this House that we would not be talking of increasing the number of juveniles reformatory centres.

Sir, the few that we have are enough. All we need to do is reduce the numbers of people going there. Although I know that this is a contentious issue, in my opinion, we have adequate hospitals in Zambia for our population if only we can reduce the level of diseases because most of them are preventable like the cholera that we always talk about in Lusaka. Surely, how can we be talking about cholera after so many years of Independence because this is a very easily preventive disease? Now, look at how much havoc it causes to our health facilities. It has now become an annual event. It is now common knowledge that every year, we have to experience cholera.

Sir, I want to agree with your Committee that there should be a deliberate move taken by the Government to prevent juveniles from committing crime so that the few reformatory centres that are already there can cater for the few youths. I am not saying that we can completely eradicate this problem because it is not possible. 

Sir, even Jesus who did believe in poverty said at one time that we shall, at least, always have the poor in our midst. The question, therefore, is: Which group should be more between the rich and the poor? Even in this particular case, we shall always have have delinquent children in our midst. Let us reduce the numbers so that the few facilities that we have can cater for them.

Mr Speaker, I thought that I should just share those thoughts with the House. Lastly, I want to thank your Committee for bringing this issue to the fore because it is quite an important issue.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I will be brief. I want to add my voice to the debate of this important report which concerns our children.

Sir, I want to say that this is a serious issue. I really hope that our colleagues in this House and other stakeholders can take this matter very seriously. As you have heard form the report, we have given lip service to the issues surrounding the delivery of justice to the juveniles in this country. 

Mr Speaker, when you look at the issue of legislation, you would notice that it is outdated. Very little is being done to improve the infrastructure connected to the delivery of justice to the juveniles in our society. When you look at the budget under the Ministry of Justice that deals with juveniles, it shows that there is no money. It is a bit sad because even when this matter was being …

Mr Chilangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Deputy Speaker: Order!

 Could the hon. Member for Chongwe hold on? I was here when the Hon. Mr Speaker made a ruling that he would not allow points of order today. Today’s business ends at 1255 hours. That being the case, I will still uphold that ruling.

May the hon. Member for Chongwe continue.

 Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, successive governments have done very little to address the challenges which we are talking about. In my view, even the present Government has not done enough.

Sir, for example, when the Chairperson of this report was propounding the issue of children, we could see that there was a lot of talking by hon. Members belonging to the Ruling Party. We do not seem to pay a lot of attention to the issues yet, they are very important considering that many of our children today have found themselves in awkward situations because of the many things that we, as parents or politicians, are not doing. 

Mr Speaker, the previous speaker spoke about some of the causes which are leading to an increase in the number of children being arrested. It has to do with how we are raising our children and what Government is doing for the children. When you look at the family tree and Government priorities, you would find that very little is being done about children.

Sir, I also want to say that as a member of this Committee, we looked at the causes of the increase in the number of crimes being committed by juveniles. For now, we seem to have focused on legislation and issues to do with infrastructure as major subject lines and ignored other important areas. Instead of focusing on the multiplication of various pieces of legislation which are overlapping and outdated, we instead need to look at other associated issues such as poverty and education. All those issues were brought out in our deliberations as a Committee.

Mr Speaker, I also want to emphasise that the issue under consideration is real. Even with the old legislation, there is one point that I wanted to bring out that, in fact, there are still some useful provisions.

Sir, Zambia is a signatory to number of international conventions that look at the rights of children, but when it comes to budgeting for the implementation of the same statutes, very little is done. For example, simple things like not allowing our children to mix with hardcore criminals are not being done. The excuse of not having transport to move juvenile offenders is lame because there are so many Government vehicles around. If you look around in the Government ministries, you would find that one individual, a Permanent Secretary or any Government official, will have two to three vehicles yet, we still say that there is no vehicle to move a child from one point in order for that child to receive justice. In fact, the major issues do not have to do with legislation, but prioritisation as a Government. Successive governments have not prioritised well when it comes to issues to do with children.

Sir, we are sitting on a time bomb as a country because we are not concerned about children’s welfare. There is very little talk about this issue in this country. Maybe, it could be because they do not vote. What is happening is sad. I just thought I should emphasise the point that even with the out-dated legislation that is in place, we can do something good for our children even just from an administrative point of view or through our police officers. Unfortunately, something has just broken down in this country. I pray to God that this country will one day have an administration that prioritises issues to do with children.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Deputy Speaker: I want to take note of the fact that Hon. Masebo was a member of the Committee and I suppose she wanted to make additional points.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I will be very brief. I thought I should add my voice to an important issue to do with children. In a way, I want to look at what has gone wrong in our society. I adopt the debate of the hon. Member of Parliament for Siavonga. Sometimes, we are victims of our own making. The reason I am saying so is that there is a large number of juvenile criminals at present. What has really gone wrong? We have allowed foreign cultures to take root in our country because of international conventions held in some foreign land, the United Nations (UN) system, other organisations and our non-governmental organisations (NGOs) who champion certain issues. Therefore, we are caught in the web and this is something we cannot control.

Sir, there is an adage which says, “Charity begins at home.” Like the hon. Member of Parliament for Siavonga stated, we had our own way of bringing up our children so that they would become responsible citizens. Certain values that we had to impact on our children early enough have eluded us because of conventions. Nowadays, it is very difficult for a parent to discipline a child. This is because even if he or she tried to discipline that child, they cannot go beyond a certain limit compared to when we were growing up.

Mr Speaker, biblically, the wisest man who ever lived according to the Bible encouraged parents to teach children in the way they should go while they were still young so that they would not depart from those ways once they had grown up. In order for a parent to discipline a child that behaves badly, he or she has to be slapped. However, that is regarded as assault these days and is not allowed. Parents fail to discipline their children in the homes. Unfortunately, the teachers’ hands are tied to a point that they cannot do much. Therefore, when a child behaves badly, all they can do is summon the parents who are also helpless and cannot discipline that child. Again, the same wise man according to the Bible said that, “Spare the rod and spoil the child.” Our children are spoilt. They say unpalatable things with no regard for the elders. Somebody talked about the issue of pornography which the children are being exposed to. How do we control children like that?

Sir, let me be a devil’s advocate. Most girls get pregnant while in school because there is so much indiscipline. If a medical doctor was sent to most schools to carry out pregnant tests, the results would show that half of them are pregnant. How can they learn like that and how can the teachers even discipline such children? They engage in immoral activities at an early stage and even challenge the teachers because they claim to know everything. So, the fact is that we have no power to discipline our children these days. If nothing is done, we are going to flood the prisons with juvenile prisoners.

Mr Speaker, we should rethink some of these issues and instill discipline in our children. The performance of our children in schools is so bad because even the parents fail to be forceful and to advise them to study and yet at the beginning of the term, they have to sacrifice and pay fees for those children who do not even listen to them. 

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Gender (Prof. Luo): Mr Speaker, I just thought I should also contribute to the debate on the Floor. I want to focus on correcting some of the impressions that have been created by the earlier contributions to the debate on the Report of the Committee of Youth and Sport.

Sir, issues have been raised, especially in relation to education and that, in fact, this Government has not paid attention to the education of the children. Some hon. Members seemed to suggest that as the reason we have some of the problems that we are experiencing at the moment. I found this very interesting because in the President’s Addresses to Parliament, one of the things that he kept emphasising was the fact that apart from infrastructure, we have to put a lot of emphasise on the education of our children. In this regard, there has been the massive construction of schools. Also, because of the recognition of the girls who have been falling pregnant because of renting houses in the villages, we have had to start providing boarding facilities.

Mr Speaker, in fact, some of the hon. Members of Parliament on your right have even taken the trouble to take yearly statistics of what is happening in their communities. Last week when I was in Mansa, I found out that the hon. Member of Parliament for Mansa Central, who is now the hon. Deputy Minister of Health, has been keeping a tab on the number of pregnancies in his constituency, and how the construction and provision of boarding facilities has actually impacted in the reduction of girls who are getting pregnant. When there is a reduction, you look at the statistics and you will see that the activities that you are taking or providing are actually making an impact.

Mr Speaker, I also want to refer to the issues related to community halls. Until recently, the portfolio of children’s issues actually fell under the ministry which I am currently responsible for. It used to be called Ministry of Gender and Child Development. One of the activities we took, as a ministry, and that we have since passed on to our colleagues who have taken over that portfolio, was to address this problem of community halls and play parks as well. That is because we think that even playing contributes to the development of the child and impacts positively on its behaviour. As a ministry, we went ahead and took an inventory in partnership with the Ministry of Local Government and Housing so that all those community halls and play parks that had been rented out or sold were repossessed and placed under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. With the supervision of our ministry, we put up activities at community halls and in the play parks. I am sure that my colleague, who is now responsible for this will give more insight on what has happened to date.

Mr Speaker, in relation to disciplining children, let me say that I have just concluded a tour of all the ten provinces of Zambia. During this tour, we have been convening the people from the Ministry of Home Affairs, men and women in uniform, traditional leaders, the Public Service workers, civil society organisations and people in the churches to, particularly, address this. This is because we, as the Government, are concerned. So, I find it totally unacceptable for someone to give an impression that as the Government, we are not concerned with what is happening. We do not enjoy sleeping all over the place, including in classrooms when we visit certain places. We do that because we want to put corrective measures in place. In fact, we need to talk more about the Convention of Human Rights. When you read that convention, you will notice that there is nowhere it says that children should do what they like. It is very specific in addressing their rights. We even reminded the men and women in uniform, who are responsible for victim support, about their territorial boundaries. We also took the trouble to speak to parents, especially as I launched the programmes on the campaigns against child marriage, that it is our responsibility as parents to look after the children.

Sir, let me also take advantage of this time to remind even us who are here that the people make a Government. That is what I told a lot of people in the ten provinces we toured. We are only Government leaders. Therefore, the responsibility of looking after children and disciplining them is not the responsibility of Prof. Nkandu Luo as Minister of Gender. It is the responsibility of all the parents. This is why we took the trouble to convene parents and talk to them so that they start playing their role and start disciplining the children. We also convened with the police so that they know that if a child comes to report the parents because they have disciplined that child, they should not arrest those parents. There is need to understand these human rights. That way, both the police and parents will know how far they can go when it comes to disciplining children. Some of the people who are not looking after the children are hiding behind human rights. That is not right. In fact, I happened to share a platform with the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) Country Office representatives so that they could also propound what human rights issues are and how far they can go. So, as a country, we should define this debate. That way, there will be no misunderstanding between parents and the Government leaders as well as those we have given the responsibility to implement these things on our behalf.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I want to say that as the Government, we are worried about the future of our children. To that effect, we have put up a lot of programmes that are aimed at protecting our children. Our whole campaign against child marriage is because of that. All our programmes about boys and men are all about that. Our Programme of Women at Work is about mentoring our girls to be better citizens and also to focus on education. I am on record as having said that there is no substitute to education. The two Presidents that have served us, His Excellencies Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, may his soul rest in peace, and the current President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, have said it in this House that as the Government, education, health and infrastructure are our priorities.

Sir, I thought I should correct that impression so that the nation and world know that there is no Government in the last five years, which has abrogated its responsibility. Our Government has done all it takes to continue protecting the citizens of this country, especially the children, who are the future of tomorrow.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kampyongo) (on behalf of the Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila):  Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to make a few comments on behalf of my colleague, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, who is not here. My focus will be on issues to do with child offenders.

Sir, your Committee’s report has highlighted a number of issues affecting child offenders. It is a fact that world over, developed countries and the undeveloped countries alike, we have offenders who are children. What is key is how we manage these offenders through our judicial systems. So, your Committee has highlighted challenges starting from the law enforcement, in this case, the police, who are the first to interact with these offenders and child witnesses. Indeed, we have, for a long time, not had a conducive environment for both the offenders and child witnesses when they get to these facilities. However, the Zambia Police Force, through various reforms, has tried, with the limited facilities, to make the environment as conducive as possible for our juveniles when they are being interrogated or when they are giving evidence. So, in some cases, where you have police stations with no holding cells for both male and female juveniles, the police try to use initiative and keep those offenders away from the adults. In some cases, the juveniles are kept at the front desks and other times, they also try to put them with the females whom they feel are not a risk to the juveniles.

Mr Speaker, I am happy to say that going forward, the Ministry of Home Affairs, under the infrastructure development for new police facilities is taking into account this factor. Wherever we are building police posts or stations, we are making sure that there are holding cells for both male and female adults as well as children. That is being done to ensure that the juveniles can be separated from the adults as a way of preserving their rights. We also make sure that the officers that are made to deal with the juvenile offenders are well trained and equipped to make sure that they afford the children the required environment.

Sir, I am also happy to mention that the Ministry of Justice has made positive strides in trying to establish courtrooms that are child friendly. This is something we have been calling for some time now. We know that one such court is now operational in Kabwe. This is in line with the provision in the new Constitution, which provides for Juvenile Departments, in terms of our court systems. These are courts where children will be accorded an environment in which they do not feel intimidated and are able to express themselves in terms of either giving evidence or, indeed, as they are being defended. When it is successful, I think we would like to see this replicated in all the provinces because we have juvenile offenders across the country.

Mr Speaker, I also know that the Zambia Police Force has had challenges in providing professional legal representation for children. The Legal Aid Board has been trying under difficult circumstances to do this. That is why we want to see an improvement. I know that the hon. Minister of Justice is doing everything possible to make sure that child offenders are assisted in this regard. Sometimes, children are just picked from the streets where they have committed a crime. This makes it difficult for us to know where to start from in terms of seeking legal representation. I think it goes without saying that they may not have resources to get people from the private sector to assist them.

Mr Speaker, some children commit capital offences and, therefore, need to be kept in custody. So, while we are working on the court processes, the Government has established facilities such as Nakambala Approved School in Mazabuka, Insakwe Probation Hostel for Girls in Ndola and Katombola Reformatory School. The whole essence of this is for children not to be kept with adult offenders. Once children are convicted, they are subjected to the reformatory process in these institutions. 

Sir, you may wish to know that there are people who have gone through Katombola Reformatory School and went on to become productive and eminent persons of this country. The whole essence of this programme is to give a chance to young offenders to reform as they become adults. With the prisons being converted into correctional services as a result of reforms, we expect to see a number of programmes scaled up in these facilities. At Katombola Reformatory School, there is formal education, skills training and farming activities, among others. This means that while a child is serving a sentence, he/she is given an opportunity to even go through the normal education system.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I want to thank your Committee for bringing these issues to light so that we are all on the same page regarding this matter. Despite having limited resources, the Government remains committed to ensuring that these facilities are expanded because we are still recording a huge number of offenders. I know that the Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare under my sister here (pointing at Ms Kabanshi) working hand in hand with the Ministry of Home is equally embarking on a number of programmes to address this matter.

Mr Speaker, I want to thank the Chairperson of your Committee for the work done because the report has touched on all the salient issues. As I have stated, the Government has already started doing something and we expect to move on that course.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, I want to thank the two hon. Ministers who have debated the Motion on this report, Hon. Prof. Nkandu Luo, the young lady, and Hon. Kampyongo, for making my work very easy. They have articulated very well what this Government is doing to try to address the challenges that young people or children face in this country. Therefore, I am just going to summarise what has already been articulated.

Sir, the mandate of the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development is to ensure that there is a conducive environment for children to grow, survive, thrive and reach their full potential. As regards the juvenile justice system, our role is to co-ordinate the efforts of various stakeholders involved in the juvenile justice delivery system in this country. The Government realises that one of the ways of ensuring an efficient and effective juvenile justice system is the harmonisation of various legislation pertaining to the protection of children and domestication of the Convention on the Rights of Children. This has been actually highlighted very well in the Committee’s report. The Committee is calling on the Government to do that and this is exactly what we are doing.

Mr Speaker, to this effect, my ministry in collaboration with other stakeholders has developed a Draft Child Code Bill, which will address the inadequacies in the juvenile justice system as mentioned in the report from pages 10 to 15. If I may give an update, this Bill has actually reached an advanced stage. The ministry drafted the Bill and circulated it to other ministries for their comments and very soon, it should be approved by Cabinet. The Child Code Bill will address most of the issues that the Committee has raised. We are in agreement with all the issues raised that have to do with children’s rights. 

Sir, how long can we incarcerate children in prisons, especially those who are there because their mothers are incarcerated? Studies have proved that it is not beneficial to children to be kept for more than six months in prison because we want them to be breastfed by their mothers. Maybe, beyond six months, they should be moved from prisons because they are not the ones that are incarcerated, but their mothers. They should go out of prison and be kept in a very good environment where they will be able to grow up in a much better way. All these things have been addressed in the Child Code Bill. We are grateful to the Committee for its observations. I wish to assure its members that very soon, the Child Code Bill will come before this House for enactment.

Mr Speaker, further, my Government in June, 2015 approved the Revised National Child Policy, which has ably provided measures to address the challenges in the juvenile justice system. One of the pillars in the 2015 National Child Policy is child development itself. This pillar provides for key strategies to address child development starting from early childhood education and development to secondary school education. This has been ably highlighted by Prof. Luo. She spent a lot of time talking about the education system that the Government is providing in this country. Therefore, I do not need to belabour this point. 

Sir, one of the key strategies under that pillar is the preservation and creation of recreation centres in order to keep children away from crime, alcohol, drugs and substance abuse. Again, this has been ably articulated by Prof. Luo. Indeed, we want to reclaim all those recreation facilities that we have lost. In addition to this, the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development has just launched the Community Sports Programme. I came to update the House on this programme some time back. We have launched this programme to try to preserve some safe spaces for children, women and everyone who would like to take part in sports. It is our hope that once these recreation facilities and safe spaces are created under the Community Sports Programme, we will enable our children to exercise their right to play. It is not just about keeping children away from alcohol, substance and drug abuse, but it is also about observing their right to play. Children have the right to play. It is part of their development and we want to see this achieved.

Mr Speaker, the Government does acknowledge that poverty is one of the factors that forces children from vulnerable households to leave their homes and commit crime. To address this challenge, the 2015 National Child Policy has a programme on economic strengthening of vulnerable households by empowering them to engage in income generating activities and linking them to the Social Cash Transfer Programme. 

Mr Speaker, the Social Cash Transfer Programe has proved to be very effective and helpful in keeping children in school. This helps children to stay away from committing crime. We are so keen to have the rights of children promoted and are co-ordinating with other stakeholders in doing this. The hon. Minister of Gender articulated the programmes in her ministry very well. She has said that they are doing a lot of work in the empowerment area. The Ministry of Community Development and Social Welfare is doing very well in running the Social Cash Transfer Programme. As a Government, we collectively think we are going to make Zambia the best country for children to live in. 

Mr Speaker, I am so grateful to your Committee for a very good report which we will use to make sure that we make informed decisions.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I should take this opportunity to thank my colleague, Hon. Hamudulu for Siavonga, for his lively contributions, especially on the omitted issues in my debate which were dealt with by your Committee. Hon. Sylvia Masebo, who is also a Member of the Committee, we thank you so much for filling in the gaps.

Mr Speaker, it was not our intention that we insert certain things which were out of the norm. We apologise for that mishap. Hon. Member of Parliament for Luena, we thank you for your contribution. We would also like to thank the Government for bringing out its position, especially through the summaries which have been given by the hon. Ministers for Local Government and Housing, who was standing in for the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, and the hon. Minister of Gender. Most importantly, we would like to thank the hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development who has acknowledged the importance of this report and the commitment of your Committee. This report was not controversial. I say thank you most sincerely to all who have supported this report.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1149 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 19th April, 2016.

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