DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 21st November, 2014

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an idea of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 25th November, 2014, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. That will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2015 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure, and will consider the following Heads:

    Head 85 − Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection
    Head 26 − Ministry of Information and Broadcasting
    Head 44 − Ministry of Labour and Social Security
    Head 34 − Human Rights Commission

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 26th November, 2014, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Member’s Motions, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2015 Budget to consider the following Heads of expenditure:

    Head 27 − Public Service Management Division
    Head 18 − Judiciary
    Head 31 − Ministry of Justice
    Head 77 − Ministry of Defence

Sir, on Thursday, 27th November, 2014, the Business of the House will start with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2015 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure, and the following Heads will be considered:

    Head 20 − Loans and Investments – Ministry of Local Government and Housing
    Head 29 − Ministry of Local Government and Housing
    Head 25 − Local Government Service Commission

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 28th November, 2014, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. That will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2015 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure to consider the following Heads:

    Head 45 − Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health
    Head 46 − Ministry of Health
    Head 78 − Zambia Security Intelligence Services – Office of the President

The House will then deal with any matter that will be outstanding.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kambwili entered the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Mwila: President Kambwili.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Let us reserve that for political rallies.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

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Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I have permitted the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock to issue a ministerial statement.

Hon. Government Members: President.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: President Simuusa.

Mr Speaker: Let us listen to the hon. Minister.

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

INPUTS DISTRIBUTION UNDER THE FARMER INPUT SUPPORT PROGRAMME

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Simuusa): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to respond to the point of order raised by Hon. Jonas Shakafuswa yesterday.

Sir, from the outset, let me state that it is not true that my ministry has stopped receiving payments from farmers for inputs. It is still doing that and farmers are currently collecting their inputs. Let me also take this opportunity to inform the House and the nation on the status of input distribution under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) for the 2014/15 Agricultural Season.

Mr Speaker, FISP targeted to support 1 million farmers with subsidised inputs for the 2014/15 Farming Season. The supported crops during this season are maize, rice, sorghum and groundnuts. The input distribution exercise has been as follows:

(a)    106,409.75 metric tonnes of Compound-D fertiliser were produced by the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) in Kafue and have been delivered to all districts in the country;

(b)    101,826 metric tonnes of Urea fertiliser, about 50 per cent of the total amount required, are available to the farmers. The balance will be available by the end of November or mid-December, 2014;

(c)    over 90 per cent of the projected maize seed requirement of 10,000 metric tonnes have been delivered to all the districts;

(d)    60 per cent of required 127 metric tonnes of rice seed have been delivered to the districts;

(e)    60 per cent of the required sorghum seed of 1,199 metric tonnes have been delivered to the districts;

(f)    only 24 per cent of 1,357.1 metric tonnes of groundnut seed have been delivered due to challenges faced in growing this seed and making it available.

Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is committed to delivering agricultural inputs to the farming community in time and in adequate quantities. In that regard, my ministry launched the distribution of inputs to farmers in May, 2014, which is unprecedented. As a result of that, the ministry has managed to distribute this year’s agricultural inputs to farmers in time.

Mr Speaker, as regards the actual collection of the inputs by the farmers, as of 20th November, 2014, over 44 per cent of the Compound-D and over 19 per cent of the Urea fertiliser, 43 per cent of the maize seed and 29 per cent of assorted seed had been collected countrywide. This information indicates that the input distribution exercise is going on very well.

Sir, I acknowledge the fact that there are some farmers who have not been paid their money for the produce they supplied to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) during this agricultural marketing season and wish to report that concerted efforts are being made to pay all farmers for the maize and rice sold to the FRA before the full onset of this year’s farming season. As I speak, funds are being released in tranches for that purpose and I will, at an opportune time, make a detailed statement to the House on the status of the payments.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification regarding the statement issued by the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has announced, on the Floor of this House and elsewhere, that the Government flagged off the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) in May, 2014. It is now seven months since that was done, yet the programme has not been concluded. Is that not incompetence?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I am at pains to understand what the hon. Member is saying. Incompetence means you do not achieve your targets.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Simuusa: Sir, I said that Compound-D fertiliser has been supplied to all the districts, yet the farming season has not even kicked off in earnest.

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

Mr Simuusa: Yes. By September, 2014, Compound-D was already in the districts way before the rainy season even started. This is unprecedented and, I think, my fellow hon. Members and colleagues should appreciate the fact that the inputs have been delivered on time this year. That is not incompetence.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has named maize, rice, sorghum and groundnuts as the crops supported under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). However, cotton, a cash crop 100 per cent grown by our small-scale farmers, is not part of the programme. Why is that so?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that progressive question. 

Sir, actually, we have been discussing with the stakeholders in cotton production on the possibility of making cotton part of FISP. The challenge has been that cotton seed is very difficult to get. Currently, the cotton grown in the country is not enough, and one of the reasons is that we do not have enough cotton seed to plant. So, we have been having meetings to see how we can work together to improve this situation and include cotton in FISP. That way, we will increase the production of this crop, which is currently in short supply.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I am a practical farmer. So, for me, the fields are supposed to be prepared by this time because if you start planting this time, you will have a good harvest. However, if you plant after December, your harvest will be poor. Further, most of the farmers get their income from selling crops like maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). Now that 44 per cent of Compound D fertiliser has been distributed, yet some farmers do not have the money to buy it because they have not been paid by the FRA, it means that they have not yet participated in this programme. Given the fact that both FISP and the FRA are under his ministry, is it possible for the farmers to get inputs against the money they are owed so that the ministry can deduct it from their credits when the money becomes available?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, what the hon. Member is suggesting was actually considered and, a few weeks ago, my ministry sat down with the FRA to explore the option of farmers getting inputs against an invoice or receipt. However, after the technocrats did their work, it was discovered that doing so would cause a situation in which we would not only lose control and money, but also inputs. So, it was decided that we just make an effort to pay the farmers, who should, in turn, get the inputs on a cash basis. That way, we would seal any loopholes for losses or fraudulent activities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): Mr Speaker, there are contradicting statements on the ground seemingly resulting from the lack of proper co-ordination between the District Agriculture Co-ordinating Offices (DACO) and Food Reserve Agency (FRA). Are there any plans to ensure that the farmers who have not been paid their money will still get their fertiliser, to which they are entitled, after they have been paid?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for underscoring that concern.

Sir, I think, this is one practical suggestion that the ministry we will need to follow up. I have heard concerns that the farmers who have money will buy all the inputs before the others get paid by the FRA. However, that cannot happen because there is a beneficiary list under FISP and it will be respected. The inputs will only be sold to other people if the intended beneficiaries indicate that they will not afford them or that they would not like to participate in the programme. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Just to put your anxieties to rest, I will allow the following hon. Members to debate in the order listed:

The hon. Member for Chadiza
The hon. Member for Mumbwa
The hon. Member for Chikankata
The hon. Member for Chembe
The hon. Member for Siavonga
The hon. Member for Senga Hill
The hon. Member for Lubansenshi
The hon. Member for Rufunsa
The hon. Member for Monze Central

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, farming is a business, and a farmer has to weigh what he is putting in against what he will harvest to determine whether he will make a profit. Does the ministry have plans of announcing the crop floor prices before the planting season so that the farmers look at the profitability of particular crops and make informed decisions about which crops to grow?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the issue of floor prices is very sensitive. The K70 per 50 kg bag of maize that I announced on behalf of the Government this year was the price at which the FRA would buy the crop on the market. I am sure that the hon. Member will agree with me that K70 was the highest price offered for a 50 kg bag of maize this marketing season despite all the complaints about its being low and the demand that the floor price be raised to K100.
Mr Speaker, without pre-empting anything, I would like to state that I will probably give more details in my comments on the Agriculture Marketing Bill that we will table before this House in the near future. That statement will also highlight how we hope to improve our maize marketing next year. I will also address the best way of determining the maize floor price so that we attain a win-win situation for our farmers, consumers, traders and all other players in the sector. For now, the announced price, also called the floor price, is what the FRA is offering on the market. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, there are many players in the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), such as researchers, seed and fertiliser suppliers, and transporters. Can the hon. Minister tell this House and, through it, the nation whether the transporters, who are an important component of FISP have been paid. If they have not, what plans has he put in place to pay them?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that the transporters under FISP are being paid. Further, for this year, the Government has contracted the NCZ to distribute all the fertiliser that it has produced and the Urea that has been sourced from elsewhere. According to the report I have been given, significant amounts of money are being released and paid to the suppliers, transporters and all the other players in this programme. There are a few outstanding balances, but they are not very significant and will be cleared in the shortest possible time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, the delivery of inputs to the districts does not equal actually delivering them to the farmers. When will the farmers receive the fertiliser at their doorsteps and those who sold maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) paid? Furthermore, what has been the cause of the delay in the payment of our farmers?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I will only answer the first question from the hon. Member. 

Mr Speaker, the procedure is that, when fertiliser is transported to the districts, it is up to the farmers to come forward and make the required contribution for their packs. When they do that, the fertiliser is, then, transported from the district centres to their doorstep or farm the same day. Transporters have been mobilised and are just waiting for the farmers to make their contributions. Currently, 45 per cent of the farmers have collected their packs while others, including in the hon. Member’s constituency, continue to do so as I speak. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I now realise that a Friday Session without Dr Guy Scott is very boring.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: According to what the hon. Minister has said, 50 per cent of Urea has been distributed and the other 50 per cent will be distributed between now and mid-December, 2014. As for Compound-D, he said that only 44 per cent has been collected. On payments, he said that a concerted effort is being made and full payment will be made before the onset of the farming season. I do not know what he means by ‘farming season’. 

Mr Speaker, following this admission of failure by the Patriotic Front (PF), …

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Mbulakulima: … would the hon. Minister not join the people of Luapula, especially those in Milenge, who are suggesting that the party should not participate in the Presidential By-election because it has failed the people of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I would also ask whether the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) should be allowed to take part in this Presidential By-election, seeing how things are going in the party. 

Laughter 

Mr Simuusa: However, in answering the hon. Member, first of all, let me correct him. All the Compound-D fertiliser is in storage at the district centres, waiting for the farmers to collect it. The 44 per cent that he is talking about is what the farmers have collected, which means that we are waiting for the other farmers to collect what is remaining. To me, that is not failure.

Mr Mbulakulima interjected.

Mr Simuusa: Yes. The problem is that some farmers are struggling to raise money and make their contributions so that they can get their packs. The Government has not failed to supply. Like I said, we have already delivered the inputs to the districts, and I urge all our farmers to go to their district centres and collect this fertiliser right away. In fact, it has been there …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Let us have order on the left!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the fertiliser has been in the district centres for the last one month, which is in line with our promise to our farmers that fertiliser would be in the districts before the rainy season. I made that promise and it has been fulfilled. So, I do not know what failure the hon. Member is referring to.

Mr Speaker, in terms of payments, I have already assured this House that money is already being released. In fact, I can announce that close to K500 million has already been paid to the farmers, and we should acknowledge that fact, which is unlike what used to happen in the past. I took exception last time, when I stood up to speak here, because hon. Members seem to deliberately choose to ignore certain facts. The balance is what we are working on currently. So, that is not failure and we will participate in the coming Presidential By-election and win by a landslide.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sing’ombe and Ms Lubezhi rose.

Mr Speaker: For those of you who have just walked in, I have announced a list of debaters that I am following. You may wish to consult your neighbours. So, even if you rise, it will be in vain.

Laughter 

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to register my sadness at the fact that, in the next farming season, cotton will not be part of FISP, yet again. Is the ministry considering getting involved in the marketing of cotton, since the Government has been preaching crop diversification? I have in mind places like Siavonga, Chirundu, Gwembe, Sinazongwe, Malambo, Rufunsa, Mumbwa and Luangwa that depend heavily on cotton growing. 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, let me start by sharing the hon. Member’s sadness. It is true that cotton was not included in this programme this year and will miss out in the next season, and I must admit that there has not been concerted effort in that area. That is why I said earlier that the ministry has been engaging the cotton stakeholders actively, especially the Cotton Board and the ginners. Currently, there is a tag of war between the growers and the ginners because there is not enough cotton seed. What I can say is that, to increase its production, we have agreed to make cotton part of FISP starting next year. In terms of marketing, I can confirm that we have decided to get involved and change how cotton is marketed to help our farmers and the industry. However, I will not announce the measures just yet because we have not reached 100 per cent consensus with the Cotton Board and cotton growers. Immediately we do that, which will be shortly, I will announce the measures that we have put in place. Suffice it for me to say that we are actively engaging the cotton growers and buyers to make sure that the marketing of the crop, this year, is done in a way that will benefit our farmers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, the point of order to which this statement is a response was raised as a result of the non-payment of the farmers who supplied their crops to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). However, we are talking about it as if all the money that is supposed to be paid to the farmers is only meant for buying fertiliser and seed. However, the truth is that the farmers are also supposed to use some of that money to buy other things like sugar and salt. Does the hon. Minister realise how much he is torturing the farmers?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, that is very much realised and appreciated. That is why I earlier said that we are making all efforts to pay all the farmers. However, what should be appreciated, again …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on my right!

Mr Simuusa: … and this is partially an answer to one of the questions that were asked earlier, one of the reasons we have this pressure in paying farmers is that we went in with a view to assisting our farmers. So, to avoid abandoning our farmers, we bought more maize than we were supposed to ...

Mr Kambwili: And we have money for it.

Mr Simuusa: … in response to the bumper harvest and hard work of our farmers in growing more crops. After buying the targeted 500,000 metric tonnes, we felt that we could not stop buying and abandon the farmers. In fact, when we tried to do that, there was an uproar from the farmers, who wondered where they would sell their maize? So, we decided to indirectly create a market for our farmers by getting more maize from them and, in turn, offloading it on the export and local markets, which we have started doing, by the way. All this was meant to enable us to assist our farmers. That should not be forgotten or go unappreciated by the hon. Members of this House and the farmers. I know that some appreciate it. That said, we have said that we are paying the farmers and have already started disbursing the money. Shortly, all the farmers will be paid and I will come, like I said in the statement, to make a statement on all the payments that have been made. Very shortly, this problem will be over. The nation should remember that as the PF Government and the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has always prioritised the interests of our farmers and will continue to do so.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: We will do everything necessary to make sure that our farmers do well. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, my question is related to Hon. Simbao’s. 

Mr Speaker, the farmers in Lubansenshi Constituency in Luwingu District and those in other areas of Zambia have not been paid. The Government has not kept its promise to pay them on time. Could the hon. Minister tell me the extent to which the Government is sensitive to the needs of, especially, the small-holder farmers, and if the Government is aware that, by not paying the farmers on time, it is perpetuating poverty, especially in the rural areas.

Mr Speaker: I will not ask the hon. Minister to answer that question for the simple reason that it is essentially a repetition of the question asked by the hon. Member for Senga Hill, to which the hon. Minister has responded. I advise those who will ask subsequent questions to, please, avoid repetition because it does not serve any purpose.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister speaks very well and he has very good figures. He has just told this House that over K500 million has been paid to the farmers. However, in Rufunsa, every meeting I hold, the question always asked is: When will we be paid for the maize that we supplied to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA)? I am sure that the people are listening. So, I want the hon. Minister to help me answer that question. Is there any problem in the system? Does he think that the paying banks are not doing their job? For sure, the amount of money that he has indicated is big. Maybe, he can also indicate to us what the balance is.
Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I think, what is important to acknowledge, and to correct the statements that have been made, is the fact that some farmers have not been paid while a good number of them have been paid. We should not give the impression that all farmers have not been paid. I said K500 million has been paid. The balance is K900 million, which we are working on clearing. As I have also already said, we have started disbursing the funds. However, I will not go into details because I will come back with a statement later. Apart from the money that is coming from the Treasury, we have already sold some of that maize on the export markets and significant amounts of money have been realised. That is why I am confident in saying what I am saying, which I am doing, obviously, after consultations with Ministry of Finance. We are working hard to pay all the farmers by the end of November or early December, 2014. So, I urge all the farmers and the Members to just get busy with farming so that we have another bumper harvest next year, which we need, as a nation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to console my brother on his admission that he will not win the Presidency of the Patriotic Front (PF).

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: He has said that he will come back to this House to make a ministerial statement, …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … meaning that he will not be President.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: He did not say that he will make the statement next year. Anyway, continue.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed this House that only 44 per cent of farmers have collected their inputs and that only K500 million has been paid to the farmers, leaving a balance of K900 million. That means that the majority of the farmers in this country have not been paid.

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, does he not know that the majority of the members who will be at Mulungushi Rock of Authority are farmers who have not been paid for their produce, yet he expects them to vote for him?

Mr Shakafuswa: They do not farm.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, can he categorically tell us when the farmers will be paid their money instead of being long-winded.
Laughter

Mr Speaker: I will not ask the hon. Minister to answer that question. For those who have not been following closely, the hon. Minister has said that there is a balance of K900 million …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: … and that it will be paid between the last week of November and the first week of December, 2014. So, there is no need to ask further questions on that aspect.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, in an event that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock retains his current position in the new Government, will he guide the Government to, yet again, import and distribute fertiliser instead of leaving the task to the private sector? I ask this question knowing very well that the Government is currently still meeting the huge storage cost for the fertiliser that is marooned in Tanzania and that which remains undistributed in depots. When you add all these costs to the financing cost, will you guide the new Government to venture into the importation of fertiliser rather than allow the efficiency of the private sector?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I said, on the Floor of this House, that we have learnt our lessons from what happened last year. At the risk of sounding like I am praising myself, I will say that, this year, the 50,000 bags of fertiliser were shipped flawlessly from Saudi Basic Industries Corporation (SABIC). It docked and was offloaded within a week. Currently, Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL) is hauling it into the country. The process was very efficient and with no demurrage at all. We use Government facilities, namely, the ZRL and the NCZ. Therefore, we cannot leave the process to players who, sometimes, choose to serve their own interests or work at their own time. This year, I must admit, the ministry is very involved in ensuring that the fertiliser reaches the farmers on time and does not incur demurrage. This is what I can say even as I agree with you. We have learnt our lessons. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that about 50 per cent of Urea fertiliser will only be in the country between the end of November and early December, 2014. During the 2013/2014 Marketing Season, we only received Urea in February when the crop was actually tasselling. How sure is he that farmers will have their Urea before the crop tassels this year? 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for highlighting the successes that we have scored this year.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Simuusa: Yes, last year, we got Urea in February. However, as I speak, 50 per cent of Urea has been delivered and this is only November. So, thank you.

Mr Speaker, I am sure that the fertiliser will be delivered on time because the total amount of locally produced fertiliser was 106,000 metric tonnes and we had carryover stocks of about 20,000 metric tonnes, which have already been distributed. We also gave 33,000 metric tonnes to the private sector, which have already been distributed, too. Further, we imported 50,000 metric tonnes from SABIC, which is currently being hauled into the country by the ZRL. Over 20,000 metric tonnes is in transit from South Africa. About forty wagons are loaded every day and the NCZ receives a train daily. Therefore, that 50 per cent I talked about could have reduced to 45 per cent and, by the end of November, 2014, the last wagon will cross the border into Zambia. I have all those papers stamped from South Africa. That is the confirmation I can give the hon. Member. I assure him that the fertiliser will be available to him and the farmers on time.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Katambo (Masaiti): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated, on the Floor of the House, that quite a good amount of money, K500 million in total, has been paid to farmers, yet some farmers are still awaiting payment. Of the farmers that have been paid, which province …

 Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Katambo: ... had the highest number of farmers who have been paid?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, allow me to reserve that detail to the statement that I promised to make to the House on a later date.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister mention that inputs have been delivered to districts. Is he aware that the co-operatives in Kanakantapa have not even received seed, which is one of the inputs? 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, I will need to check that information because I said that 90 per cent of the seed has been delivered. In fact, it is 91.7 per cent. Maybe, Kanakantapa is one of the areas that will benefit from the 8.3 per cent balance. However, I assure the hon. Member that I will follow-up on her information and ensure that the seed reaches Kanakantapa within the week.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, we are aware that the K500 million that has been paid to farmers was only released recently and has, therefore, attracted complaints from farmers. So, year in and year out, we continue to talk about the inadequacies that besiege the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), that is, in crop marketing, and input supply. Is the hon. Minister thinking about putting in place mechanisms and incentives for the private sector, which is said to be more efficient in these matters, to comes in and alleviate the problems that dog this sector? 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to correct the hon. Member. The K500 million has not been paid out only recently. For the first time in a long time, K230 million was already waiting in the banks even before the start of the marketing season, which was in line with the promise we had made to pay the farmers in two weeks. The farmers who sold their maize early were paid within one or two weeks because the money was in the bank. The extra is what has been released in weekly instalments. However, like I have already said, the details of the currently on-going disbursements will be provided in my next update. 

Mr Speaker, I would like to further confirm to the hon. Member that we are brining changes to the marketing system next year. We will give more room for private sector participation. We will also introduce the warehouse receipt system and in which the financial institutions will be involved. We will also introduce the e-voucher system and try out an agriculture commodities exchange that will be run by the private sector. So, there will be a very big difference in the way we will manage grain marketing in next year’s marketing season. This is all being done to improve the way we do things and, hopefully, make progress, as a nation. I hope that this will work well but, again, I will come back with more details.

I thank you, Sir.

_________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

NAMUSHAKENDE/NAKANYAA AND NAMUSHAKENDE/LUAMPA ROADS

237. Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the rehabilitation of the Namushakende/Nakanyaa and Namushakende/ Luampa Roads in Nalikwanda Parliamentary Constituency would commence;

(b)    what preparatory works had been done for the construction of the Namushakende/Luampa Road; and 

(c)    whether the road at (b) would be constructed to bituminous standard.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Mwango) (on behalf of the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, the works on are expected to commence after completion of the feasibility studies, detailed design and preparation of tender documents for the upgrading of the Namushakende/Nakanyaa Road to bituminous standard in 2016.

Mr Speaker, the preparatory works, which consist of the feasibility study, detailed designs and tender documents preparation are scheduled to precede the actual construction works in 2016.

Mr Speaker, the Namushakende/Nalikwanda Road will be constructed to bituminous standard.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister indicate when the feasibility studies are expected to be completed so that people can know the time frame for the start of the works.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, we plan to start the feasibility studies by 2015 and end them in 2016. Thereafter, we will commence the work.

I thank you, Sir.

RESURFACING OF GREAT EAST ROAD

238. Ng’onga (Kaputa) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    why the resurfacing of the Great East Road from the Arcades Roundabout to the Airport Roundabout had stalled; and 

(b)    what the time frame for the completion of the project was.

Mr Mwango: Mr Speaker, the works on the Great East Road from the Arcades Roundabout to the Airport Roundabout have not delayed. They are on schedule. The planned progress, up to the end of October, 2014, was 40 per cent while the actual progress for the same period is approximately 50 per cent.

Mr Speaker, the time frame for completing the work is fifteen months, which will end on 19th May, 2015. This is because the contract was varied to include the full reconstruction of the carriageways near the Airport Roundabout.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister happy with the workmanship on that road? I find the quality of work not to be good.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate what the hon. Member has said. However, when he says that he is not happy with the quality of the work, he should have compared the workmanship with the contract specifications. He should have first seen the specifications. In accordance with the specifications, we are happy with the quality.
 
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, what were the specifications used on that road? I have noticed that they just scrapped the surface and replaced it with a thin layer. What kind of specification is that? Further, what led the Government to consider using that kind of specification, which does not inspire much confidence in us?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, engineering is very difficult and only a privileged few can understand it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I am sure that the hon. Member, who is an engineer, has noticed that, near the Chelstone Tank, we did not just scrap off the top, but went deeper to work on the foundation. So, the specifications that were used on the stretch of the road were varied according to the feasibility study that was undertaken so that we could lower the cost. That is why, in some areas of the road, we are going deeper while, in others, where the base is still sound, we are just scrapping off the top.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, I have been running on that road almost every day, and I think that the contractor works about two days in a week. Is this an indication of the ministry’s inability to pay the contractor the money to execute the works on a more regular basis? Fifteen months is too long.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, initially, when we said that we would work on most of the roads, people doubted the Patriotic Front (PF) Government but, now, they have seen what it is able to achieve.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Even on that road, we are meeting our commitments to the people of Zambia. In terms of payments, we are up-to-date and the contractors are not complaining. So, I do not know where the hon. Member is getting his facts from. The fact is that we are doing a good job.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that that road contract was given to a Patriotic Front (PF) cadre, who sub-contracted the contractor now working on the road.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Minister!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the contractor who is working on site is Stefanutti Construction, a German company. However, the contractor works with Zambians one of whom was a Permanent Secretary in the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) Government. Therefore, how has he become a PF cadre? The PF does not deny people jobs they qualify for just because they are MMD members.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we are doing a professional job and the company is the best for the job.

I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, was the contractor paid in full?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to say that we cannot pay a contractor in full before the project has been fully executed. What normally happens is that, when the job is done up to a certain level, it is certified and the contractor is paid for that work. Therefore, the contractor has not been paid in full because the job has not been completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I ask for a bonus answer. 

Mr Speaker, apart from this road, there are a number of others whose works have stalled. I have in mind Burma and Chilimbulu roads. The streets lights have also been knocked down, the traffic lights are not there anymore and the drainage system has been destroyed, yet nothing has happened in the last six or seventh months. What is happening? Is it a lack of money?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to state that the principal Question is on the Great East Road. Therefore, it is very difficult for me to give an adequate answer to a question on Burma and Chilimbulu roads. So, I would appreciate it if the hon. Member could file in a new Question so that we give him accurate information about the roads. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: It is a fair response. 

Hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, you may ask your question. 

 Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, fair as that response might sound, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm that the contracts they sign with contractors have performance bonds. If that is the case, what would be the status of the performance bond on the Great East Road project? Further, if the hon. Minister can be kind enough, could he agree with me that our late President was very candid in his interaction with hon. Ministers. For instance, when he went to break ground on the road to Kasisi, he said a few unpalatable things about the hon. Minister. Could this be the reason we think that the manner in which he is working is a bit haphazard? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the question by the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central. However, we are professionals and know what we are doing. When it comes to work, we work according to the book. The PF Government is not interested in doing any haphazard works. At the very beginning of our tenure in office, people thought that we had no plans and used all kinds of phrases. Now, however, they are just surprised that the works  …

Hon. Government Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: … being done on the ground …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mukanga: … are beyond what was expected.

Hon. Government Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mukanga: We have done very well. We have bank guarantees on every project and they are always followed. Indeed, performance bonds are there, but we follow what is supposed to be done. There is no problem with the President rebuking anybody. He had the power to do it. It was done over project inspections and he was the supervisor. We appreciated our late President and every comment he made. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members:  Hear, hear!

_____ 

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

VOTE 11 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – K1,275,343,121) and VOTE 15 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – K507,215,370).

The Minister of Home Affairs (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Chairperson, I am grateful for this opportunity to present my ministry’s budget policy statement for 2015. 

Sir, this statement is a synopsis of the achievements of the ministry in the implementation of the 2014 Budget. I will also endeavour to highlight the challenges faced by the ministry and bring out the salient policy measures for the 2015 Budget.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Home Affairs is mandated to provide and promote quality internal security services in order to create a safe, secure and peaceful environment for sustainable socio-economic development for all. In furtherance of this mandate, my ministry seeks to uphold professionalism, integrity, accountability, patriotism, transparency, confidentiality, excellence and team work. This mandate is discharged through various departments and specialised agencies, namely, the Zambia Police Force; Zambia Prisons Service; Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC); Immigration; National Registration, Passports and Citizenship; National Archives; Office of the Registrar of Societies; Research, Planning and Information; Commission for Refugees; and the Police Public Complaints Authority. In terms of the budget structure, the ministry has three expenditure heads, namely, Head 11 – Zambia Police, Head 16 – Drug Enforcement Commission and Head 15 – Ministry of Home Affairs. Allow me to shed some light on the achievements of the ministry during the 2014 Budget implementation period. 

Sir, the ministry has continued to improve its operations by increasing staffing levels, modernising its operations and improving infrastructure in order to enhance security in the country. During the year under review, 1,145 police officers were recruited and have since been deployed countrywide in an effort to increase police presence in our communities. In an effort to modernise the policing techniques, the ministry has procured modern security boats for marine operations aimed at increasing security on our major water bodies and rivers. Since the Patriotic Front (PF) formed Government, the modernisation programme for the ministry has recorded remarkable progress, especially in the acquisition of hi-tech forensic equipment aimed at enhancing investigations and prosecutions. 

Mr Chairperson, I am also glad to inform the hon. Members in this House that my ministry rolled-out Interpol 24/7 to all the provincial centres in the country to enhance transnational criminal investigations and bring the vehicle clearance service closer to the people. 

Mr Chairperson, hon. Members of this House have been witnesses to the ministry’s decisive actions, this year, in dealing with drug trafficking, money laundering and other vices. As a result of those operations, 3,837 persons had, by the end of August, 2014, been arrested by DEC and other security wings. Further, DEC also seized 28.9 tonnes of cannabis plant, 5.5 tonnes of cannabis herbs and other drugs, such as cocaine, hashish and heroin. 

Sir, in our continued efforts to strengthen border management, the ministry rolled out the Zambia Immigration Management Information System (ZIMIS) to three more sites, bringing the total to eight. Additionally, the ministry, through the Commission for Refugees, is currently preoccupied with the integration of former Angolan refugees. New resettlement schemes have been earmarked in the Western and North-Western provinces for this exercise. The programme will not only benefit former Angolan refugees, but also Zambians in the host communities. 

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Home Affairs is also responsible for issuing national identity and travel documents. In that regard, it has commenced operations in the newly-created districts of Mwandi, Sioma and Shiwang’andu, among others, in order to enable our people to access national identity and travel documents. It has also commenced the computerisation of birth, marriage, death and adoption records in order to improve the management of vital statistics. The ministry is also computerising the Office of the Registrar of Societies in a process that is expected to culminate in improved service delivery through efficient registration and monitoring of societies in the country. 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Members of this august House are aware of the rising prison population in this country. This has posed to my ministry the challenge of feeding the inmates. The ministry has, therefore, invested K22 million from the 2014 Budget in expanding prison farms. To this end, farming equipment has been procured to enhance the Prison Service’s capacity to feed inmates. 

Sir, on infrastructure development, I am glad that the Mwandi and Kazungula Police stations were constructed and commissioned in 2014. The Matumbo Victims Support Unit Office was also completed and the construction of Muchinga Divisional Headquarters, Matumbo Police Post, Mansa Division Headquarters, Chibombo Police Post, Mulobezi Police Post and the staff housing units for Serenje Police Station is on-going. Further, border infrastructure is coming up in Kamapanda while prison facilities are nearing completion in Kalabo and Monze. Recently, Luwingu Prison was officially opened to demonstrate my ministry’s resolve in addressing infrastructure needs of the departments under the ministry.

Mr Chairperson, despite the achievements scored, the year was not without challenges. Some of the difficulties encountered included a continued inadequacy and dilapidation of office and staff accommodation coupled with a lack of modern equipment for crime prevention, detection and investigation. As a result of globalisation and technological advances, new forms of crime, such as cyber crime, human trafficking, terrorism and money laundering have been emerging, and criminal syndicates and opportunistic criminals have taken advantage. This phenomenon poses a serious challenge to our security. So, our response is to do our outmost to enable our security agencies to stay a step ahead of the criminals. We intend to achieve this by adopting new technologies and exposing our officers to continuous professional development so as to enable them to better comprehend and combat crime in 2014. 

Mr Chairperson, there was also a high incidence of illegal immigration which, among other effects, contributed to continued congestion in the detention and prison facilities of the country. 

Mr Chairperson, in view of the challenges highlighted above, my ministry wishes to focus on the following strategic areas in 2015:

(a)    hastening the establishment of specialised agencies to deal with emerging crimes, such as terrorism and cyber crime; and

(b)    augmenting its current progress by continuing to strengthen forensic services and acquiring modern equipment, including radiation detectors.

Sir, in the coming year, we will continue with the decentralisation of finger-print lifting, search and clearance. This will improve the management of biometric crime data and reduce the cost of obtaining clearance, especially for our citizens outside Lusaka. 

Mr Chairperson, the fight against drug trafficking and money laundering will remain one of the ministry’s top priorities. Therefore, the ministry plans to decentralise and strengthen the operations of DEC to districts to enable it to effectively execute its mandate.

Sir, in order to strengthen border management, the ministry will continue to build border infrastructure and roll out ZIMIS. The ministry will also roll out the issuance of digitalised National Registration Cards (NRCs), starting with Lusaka Province, and undertake a countrywide mobile registration for the issuance of the NRCs in 2015. The ministry will also sustain its efforts to make the Prisons Department self-sustaining in feeding inmates in the country. Further, it will step up efforts to identify alternative means of sentencing for minor offences, including the introduction of admission of guilt fines for illegal immigrants, in order to mitigate congestion in prisons. 

Mr Chairperson, to enable the ministry to undertake the afore-mentioned programmes and allocations, a K1.9 billion budget has been provided for 2015, representing an increase of K171.3 million from the 2014 Budget of K1.7 billion. Of this provision, K1.3 billion has been allocated to the Zambia Police Force, DEC has been allocated K73.3 million while other departments under Head 15 have been allocated K57.2 million. 

Sir, the Ministry of Home Affairs remains resolute in maintaining Zambia’s status as an oasis of peace because we take our responsibility of protecting Zambians from the risk of harm from criminal elements very seriously. Further, we recognise that peace and security are prerequisite to socio-economic development. We will, therefore, uphold our resolve to keep Zambia as a peaceful country so that our people can enjoy their rights to the fullest.

Sir, as I conclude, I wish to reiterate that, in 2015, we will escalate the offensive against criminal elements and the allocations to various departments and agencies are meant to help us ensure that our country continues to enjoy the peace and security for which it is renowned. I, therefore, urge this House to support the Ministry of Home Affairs Budget for 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: I had indicated that we would consider Heads 11 and 15 but, from the hon. Minister’s policy statement, it is clear that Head 16 has also been covered. Therefore, we can cover all the three Heads as well.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Chairperson, I want to say I reluctantly support this Vote because this is a Constitutional matter. In supporting the Vote, I wish to make a few comments. 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister has emphasised the fact that Zambia is an oasis of peace. However, I want to argue that, maybe, his assertion missed the point because, I think, Zambians are more docile than those who live in an oasis of peace. I will try to elaborate what I mean.

Sir under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, we have seen a complete disregard of law and order sponsored by the PF in collaboration with the police. 

Sir, there can be no compromise on the subject of human rights because they are inalienable entitlements that every citizen must enjoy. However, we have seen unprecedented levels of police brutality ever since the PF came into office. We used to warn the PF that there would surely come a day when the people it called cadres and the militia it had established in this country would turn against the party. Not so long ago, I saw the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs lament on television that the police needed to be professional. You cannot eat your cake and still have it. The world is round. So, what goes around does come around. The PF has cultured the current police regime to be the most unprofessional since Independence in 1964.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: Question!

Mr Nkombo: You can say, “Question!” That is your business.

Mr Mwimba H. Malama: I will beat you up!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I will cite examples. 

Sir, the abuse of the Public Order Act of which many, including hon. Members of this House have been victims has been perpetrated by Zambia Police personnel, some of who are in this House with us today. However, the chickens have now come home to roost. 

Mr Chairperson, as we go into the Presidential By-election, I want to plead with the police to be professional, unless they are foretellers and know that the PF will retain the reins of power in this country. Otherwise, the police officers should not continue misbehaving and arresting people in an arbitrary manner. 

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to rise on this point of order. 

Sir, we know that human rights are to be enjoyed within the confines of the law. So, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to intimidate the police officers, who are innocently here …

Laughter 

Mr Kampyongo: … to witness the passing of their budget in this Parliament? Further, is he in order to lament about elections and make intimidating remarks about which party will form the Government next when we are sure that the PF Government will come back? 

I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: The hon. Member on the Floor is debating Head 11, and I think that he is responding to what the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has said. I do not take cognisance of the presence of the people you have referred to and I think that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is taking note of what the hon. Member is saying. 

Can the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central continue.

Mr Nkombo: May God bless you, Mr Chairperson. 

Sir, before I was interrupted by the point of order, I was saying that, under the PF Government, we have experienced the worst deterioration of law and order in this country. We live like we are in George Orwell’s Animal Farm, where some people are more human than others and I will demonstrate that police officers have been trained to be selective. They know who to arrest and who not to when an offence has been committed. Something of that nature happened not too long ago.  In the build up to the upcoming by-election, there is a group of people who agitated for the mutilation of their party’s constitution in choosing its Presidential candidate. They mobilised people to go to Government House, a Government institution, but the police, in my view, for once, behaved professionally by dispersing those people who had assembled illegally. Alas! The hon. Deputy Minister who is just from raising a point of order said that the police should act professionally. It is said that how people see the world depends on where they stand. The same people the PF trained to brutalise and intimidate people will go for its members. 

Sir, the leader of the United Party for National Development (UPND), Mr Hakainde Hichilema, has been a victim of police brutality ever since the PF came into power.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Hichilema has been the most arrested leader since the PF came into power. He is arrested at breakfast, lunch and supper on trumped-up charges. It is a fact that, under the PF Government, UPND supporters were brutalised by one woman who was head of the Police Lusaka Division. She was seen on the television saying that the battle lines had been drawn. How can a police officer, who is supposed to maintain law and order, say that? Our cadres were arrested but, for your own information, it did not take long for them to be acquitted by the courts of law. 

Mr Chairperson, the PF’s time of reckoning is approaching. It is just a stone throw away. 

Sir, as we go to elect the successor to the late Mr Sata, may his soul rest in peace, I want to command police officers to behave themselves. We are passing a Budget line here that no one should use to intimidate and brutalise us. It is meant for the police to use in performing their Constitutional duty to protect all citizens regardless of their political affiliation, creed, religion or tribe.

Hon. Lubezhi: Correct!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I have always argued that, beyond these politics, there are families. The police officers have traumatised Mr Hichilema’s children, who are very young, by surrounding his house and arresting him every other day. Fortunately, God is great. The race is now on  and it is time for the police to exercise neutrality. 

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Chairperson, the police has been selective in its enforcement of the law, and I want to catalogue a few examples. Not too long ago, at the Chelstone/Airport Roundabout, PF cadres killed one of their own and the body was buried without a post-mortem being conducted or with a bogus post-mortem report until the relatives summoned enough courage to demand that the body be exhumed so that they could find out what had killed their relative. It turned out that the cause of death was haemorrhage arising from the beating. Ask me who has been arrested for the loss of that precious life.

Mr Mwiimbu: No one.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, in Livingstone, a cook for one of the hon. Deputy Ministers was killed because he wanted to be an expert in framing others in collaboration with the police. They called UPND members murderers in a screaming headline in The Post Newspaper. This was initiated by a once-powerful man here, but he is no longer here and has become an adversary of our colleagues in the PF. No one has ever been arrested or questioned for killing Mr Lyakoka, the cook for the hon. Minister for the Central Province, yet he had been in the company of fellow cadres before he was killed. However, a week later, when Mr Harrison Chanda, may his soul rest in peace, was killed by his fellow cadres, seventy-three UPND members and I, and I must declare interest, had to endure the indignity of going into dirty police cells for a criminal offence we had not committed. 

Sir, I repeat, the chickens have come home to roost. 

Sir, in my opening remarks, I stated that Zambia is not an oasis of peace, but that Zambians are just docile. Let us see if Zambians’ eyes are now open. This by-election will be a good litmus test. If the PF Government and its police will win, I will hang my boots.

Hon. Government Members: Mm.

Mr Nkombo: I will certainly hang my boots because I will, then, believe that I am on the wrong side of the divide.

Hon. Government Members: Do it now.

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Nkombo: Sir, I am debating the professionalism of the police.

The Chairperson: Order!

I appreciate that, but let us concentrate on the issue of the professionalism of the police, not on who will win or lose the Presidential By-election because, I think, that it is not the issue at hand.

Mr Nkombo: With deep appreciation, Sir.

Sir, the boots are mine. So, if the police will not act professionally, I will decide whether to hang them or not.

Mr Chairperson, the police created a stampede at Lusaka Central Police after summoning Mr Hichilema on a trumped-up charge and sprayed tear gas in the office in which he was when teargas is used for crowd control. A Mr Progress ended up in the Intensive Care Unit and we had to meet his medical bills. 

Sir, there was also a killing in Kampasa under the PF and its police. So, I do not regret feeling negative about the police, whose budget I am just about to approve. In Tonga, we say, “Nziba isinsilwa akoze”.

Hon. MMD Members: Meaning?

Mr Nkombo: It means that that the best opportunity to remind someone is just before giving them something. We must …

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: … remember that the police is there to protect everybody, not a selected few hecklers, whose intellectual endowment is rather limited.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Mm. 
 
Interruptions

Mr Nkombo: This Floor is for debating issues, but those who wish to debate must indicate to you, Sir, or forever keep their peace. If they are limited in their usage of the Queen’s language, maybe, we should change the rules so that they can debate in the language in which they are comfortable.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Nkombo: Sir, under the PF Government, the Public Order Act nearly came to my bedroom. I am not ashamed to remind the House that the late Head of State once boasted that he could even hear what Chief Jumbe talked about even in the privacy of his bedroom. Two plain-clothed police officers once came to my home in Mazabuka and said that they had been told that I was holding a meeting. This is a fact because I called the Inspector-General (IG) of Police …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka Central in order to mention the late President, who is not here to defend himself, in his debate?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Please, let us concentrate on debating the issue at hand and avoid using points of order to derail the debate. We have three Heads to consider and we have to finish all of them. 

Can the hon. Member continue.

Mr Nkombo: Sir, before the point of order, I was saying that I had to call the IG of Police to find out where the application of the Public Order Act ended. Fortunately, she was friendly to me and we had a decent conversation. Later, she called a Commissioner, who also called the command in Mazabuka and instructed the police officers to leave my house. My point is that the hon. Minister talked about the training of police officers, whom, we, who are on the receiving end of their stick, believe are simply PF cadres who operate like robots. They can even go to my bedroom and try to implement the Public Order Act. That is unacceptable.

Sir, there are so many incidents that I can cite to illustrate the police’s lack of professionalism. Last Friday, we saw police officer throw tear gas canisters at and brutalise University of Zambia (UNZA) students at the Great East Road Campus. Just across this place. I can walk there and come back before this House adjourns for the day. It is time for them to do some introspection. Every police officer must understand that the wheels of time continuously turn and that human beings come and go, but institutions remain. I miss the good old days when we had Mr Francis Kabonde, Mr Darius Kalebo and Mr Francis Ndhlovu for IGs. This is not to slight the current IG, but it is time for her to do some introspection, too. When some PF cadres disrupted our rally in Kabwata, a high ranking person in the police told me that although we had a permit to hold the meeting, the meeting could not go ahead because PF cadres did not want it to and the police could not do anything about it. They beat us and broke up our gathering. However, starting from today, we shall assemble whether the police like it …

Mr Hamudulu: Or not.

Mr Nkombo: … or not.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: That is what will happen. If it means our feeling the police cells, so be it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: I know that we have different views, but the idea is to see what we can do to enable our police force to improve where we think there is a shortfall. So, please, let us bear that in mind because they are there to protect the lives of all of us and they should, indeed, perform their duties professionally.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this rare opportunity to debate these Votes.

Mr Chairperson, I want to state that I reluctantly support this Vote and that, if I had a way, I would discourage anyone from debating it. So, whatever we say here should not be in vain, and I want to believe that the Government is able to listen. As my colleague stated, what goes around comes around. Today, you could be heckling there but, tomorrow, it will be a different story. We have stated without shame that we were there yesterday but, today, we are here. Tomorrow, there will be somebody else where you are. 

Sir, the police must be professional. Currently, I think, we still have a long way to go. The assertion by the hon. Minister that the police are there to provide a safe, secure and peaceful environment is not a true reflection of what is happening. Let us take the Public Order Act, for instance, which many have argued is a good law. Yes, it could have been a good law, but it has been misapplied. I do not think that there is any reasonable person, today, who can argue that it has been applied correctly. Let me mention the name of the late President, Mr Michael Sata, not in vain, but as a fact. During our tenure of office, as the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), I do not remember the late President getting permits to hold political campaign rallies. Hardly four days passed after losing the Presidential Elections before he was on the road having rallies all over the country, from Mbala to Sesheke. Tell me whether he used to get police permits. We can even go to the Zambia Police Headquarters to ask for evidence of that having happened. However, today, as Hon. Nkombo said, every time President Hakainde Hichilema raises his head, it is hammered. Every time President Dr Nevers Mumba raises his head, it is hammered. Dr Mumba has been arrested even for merely visiting a chief on the Copperbelt. How many times has he been taken to Kamfinsa Police Station? He has been arrested several times, and that is not fair. I believe that the police must be professional and be above board. With their experience of seeing individuals come and go while the institutions remain, the police should have known, by now, that, tomorrow, there could be another Government in power. So, we look forward to a time when the Government can change, but our police officers like the Inspector-General (IG) and her team remain to continue serving the country. However, today, every political party that comes to power is forced to make changes because of the behaviour of the police officers. That is very annoying, and it is for that reason that I said that I support the Vote reluctantly. We will only whole-heartedly support them if they change. Otherwise, we will have to team up and fight against the lack of professionalism.

Mr Chairperson, as we go into the campaign period, we want to see professionalism in the police. The forth-coming Presidential By-election will be a test case for the police to exhibit high levels of professionalism, failure to which the Opposition must team up and reject this Vote in the next Budget.

Mr Chairperson, much has been said about professionalism. Look at the excessive force that was applied on the students at the University of Zambia (UNZA). That is what we call police brutality. It is police brutality at its worst. While we, politicians, may still grapple with the problems that university students face, I would like to believe that the police should, by now, have found a professional formula for doing so. Not long ago, we saw the uprising in Hong Kong, where thousands of people assembled in the streets and demonstrated, but no single life was reported to have been lost because there was no police brutality. The police handled the case professionally. How do you go to female students’ hostels with tear gas? How can you call that professionalism? How can you fail to handle the students professionally fifty years after the police came under the control of the Zambian Government? Some of these police officers were trained at UNZA. How, then, can they use such excessive force and call themselves a professional body?

Sir, I will continue when we resume after the business is suspended.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

The Chairperson: I think that we have got into the habit of coming back into the House late. It would be acceptable if it was an exception rather than the rule. We must appeal to our own consciences. It is wrong for us to always want to be forced back into the House by the whips. Business is only suspended for fifteen minutes, and we should be back on time. As things stand, we are three minutes late.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was advising the police to be professional. 

Sir, during the tea break, I met my distant cousin, Hon. Charles Zulu, who asked me whether I supported the unruly behaviour of UNZA students and I told him that I did not. The subject here is the police. However, let me also appeal to the students at UNZA because their conduct is not good. There is no need for them to run to the road every time they are aggrieved. Those vehicles they destroy belong to private citizens who obtained them at a very high cost. Some of them are our relatives. Can you imagine, someone coming from the Eastern Province to Lusaka unaware of what is happening at UNZA, having a car that he got on a loan destroyed by riotous students. It is unfair. So, the students must avoid that kind of behaviour. That said, however, when the situation is provoked, the police come in, but they should know how to behave because they are trained on how to handle situations of that nature. Imagine, a police officer throwing a tear gas canister in the room of a student who had not even gone to riot on the roadside. That was attempted murder, and it was all because of somebody being unhappy about what some other students had done. I keep comparing that incident to how the protests in Hong Kong were handled. The police were so professional that not a single life was lost despite the large scale of the protests. We are not blasting the police officers, but simply urging them to operate professionally.

Mr Chairperson, we have been talking about buying bullet-proof vests for the police. I hope that, when the hon. Minister comes to respond, he will inform us what progress has been made on this matter, so far, because it has been almost four years since we started talking about it. I hope that our police officers are now well equipped to face any challenge without fear.

Mr Chairperson, one issue that requires police intervention is that of land grabbing. His Honour the Vice-President, Dr Guy Scott, is on record saying that the Government does not support the grabbing of land. Mr Edgar Lungu, the then hon. Minister of Home Affairs, who is today the frontrunner in the PF presidential race, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: … is also on record saying that some cadres who had previously worn the blue regalia of the MMD had put on the green regalia of the PF. Even the current hon. Minister of Homes Affairs has said that these cadres, whose survival depended on anything,  should, therefore, not be considered PF members, but criminals. At least, on this matter, the Government has been very firm. Therefore, why has the police allowed the perpetuation of this vice?

Mr Nkombo: It is because they are interested in the land.

Mr Mbulakulima: Is it because they are weak or interested in the land that is grabbed? This is the lack professionalism that we are talking about. The police need to be above board because these are the issues that are taking the country backward.

Mr Chairperson, I heard the hon. Minister talk about infrastructure development in his statement. However, I think that there is a need for him to have a very consistent and pragmatic approach to this issue. I know that the ministry could be building one police post here and another one there, but I think that a comprehensive approach like the one the MMD had should be used. Many houses for police officers were built in Ndola and Lusaka. The same was done for the Zambia Army and Zambia Air Force. Things were done in a systematic manner. However, today, our colleagues seem to have lost direction and are implementing projects haphazardly. Police officers have to be accommodated in one area with decent accommodation. So, I hope that the hon. Minister will tell us what big projects the Government will implement regarding the accommodation of our women and men in uniform.

Sir, lastly, I want to lament the lack of progress in the construction of the Milenge Police Station in my district. Some hon. Members have asked us why we did not construct the police station when we were in power. However, as Hon. Dr Musokotwane always insists, there is no finishing line in development. Our systematic approach during our last five years in office was to build a high school, which we did. We also planned to start building a district hospital and trades training institute in Milenge, and we had already started the projects when we left office. The fourth project on our plan was the district police station. The late Hon. Sakeni is on record, in the first year of the PF’s being in Government, saying that the following year, which was 2013, his Government would construct the police station. However, to date, the project has not materialised and Milenge remains the only district without a district police station.

Dr Kaingu: Even Mwandi.

Mr Mbulakulima: I thought, this would have come to the hon. Minister’s attention so that he could have been spurred to speed up the process. The issue of availability of land, which was the initial stumbling block, has been sorted out and land has been found. Besides, land cannot be a problem in a rural area like Milenge, unless one just wants to buy time. So, where are we where the construction of the police station in that area is concerned? 

Mr Chairperson, we constructed a police post in Senior Chief Milambo’s area using the Constituency Development Funds (CDF). The infrastructure there includes three houses and an administration block. However, no effort has been made by the police command to help the three officers who have been posted there with communication equipment, transport and many other things they need to operate effectively. They do not even have solar energy. Why should the people of Milenge be neglected like this? Like I have said before, 80 per cent of the farmers in my district have not been paid and are suffering. To add insult to injury, they are denied a police station. In fact, they have been denied everything. So, how can the PF members go in an area like that to ask for votes in this Presidential By-election?

Mr Chairperson, I believe that this ministry will rise to the occasion and help the people of Milenge by building a police station for them.

Thank you most sincerely, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Chairperson, from the outset, let me say that I support the budget proposals for the Ministry of Home Affairs. I also want to take a moment to thank the officers under this ministry, especially the police, for the hard work that they continue to do, often risking their lives in the process. I salute them for that and encourage them to continue working hard.

Mr Chairperson, in approving this budget, we must ask ourselves whether there is value for money in the projects we intend to implement. Are we putting the money where it is most needed for us to get the outcome that we expect? This will be the focus of my debate this morning. 

Sir, each time I go to another country and look at the streets in the cities, there is something that always hits me, and that is the visibility of the police. There are police officers on every street, not necessarily carrying a gun but, perhaps, taking a leisurely walk. The police presence re-assures members of the public that they have protection. I am sure it also sends a message to would-be criminals that police officers are near them. This is the best system that, I recall, existed even here, in Zambia, until the 1980s. We all used to see that. Today, we do not. Can anyone tell me where there is police visibility today.

Hon. Members: At road blocks.

Dr Musokotwane: Yes, at road blocks. If you want to see the presence of police, you have to go to a road block. So, I will spend some time talking about this issue. 

Mr Chairperson, when going to the Kenneth Kaunda International Airport (KKIA), you are likely to find many road blocks. One will be just as you leave town, another will be at the Chelstone Roundabout and yet another at the turnoff to the airport. You will also find one at the turnoff to the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) base and another just before the airport. So, you will encounter four road blocks on the very short stretch of road from town to the airport. If you go southwards, between here and the Kafue River, once again, most likely, you will find a road block within town, here, in Lusaka, another in Chilanga, yet another as you enter Kafue Town and another one as you approach the river. If you decide to go to the Copperbelt or the north, from Lusaka to Kabwe, …

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: … you will find the first road block right in town. The second will be at Kabangwe, the third at Chisamba, …

Mr Livune: Ten Miles.

Dr Musokotwane: Yes, Ten Miles. So, between Lusaka and Kabwe, most probably, you will go through five road blocks. Mounting road blocks is what the police is concentrating on. On some road blocks, you sometimes find private cars owned by the police officers. In other words, the police officers go to the trouble of going in their personal cars to mount road blocks. I am sure that they also use their own fuel.

Dr Kaingu: There must be something.

Dr Musokotwane: What is their motivation? In the meantime, if you go to their office to report a break-in and ask them to investigate, what is the answer? It would be, “We have no transport”, yet they have the transport to go and mount a road block. What is going on in our country? The consequences of the many road blocks that look benign are quite significant. Let me start with the economic ones. 

The first consequence, Mr Chairperson, is that of time wastage. Everybody here is familiar with the statement that “time is money”. Of course, that is true because, if it normally takes a farmer two hours to carry produce from his farm to the market and he has to take longer to do so because of road blocks, his productivity will decline. If it normally takes you one hour to make, let us say, 5,000 bricks for building but, for some reason, you take longer to produce the same quantity of bricks, at the end of the day, you will produce fewer bricks than your normal daily total. So, these road blocks that are everywhere are lowering our productivity. In the City of Lusaka, there are road blocks almost everywhere. Sometimes, we see the congestion on the roads and think that there is a broken-down vehicle somewhere only to discover that the cause is a what?

Dr Kaingu: Road block.

Dr Musokotwane: Yes, a road block. Imagine the amount of time that is wasted. Instead of people going to work to save lives or rush their chickens to the market, they get stuck at a road block, and time and money are lost.

Mr Chairperson, there is another important aspect. When you come to a road block, off course, you are forced to do what? To come to a stand-still. You are forced to stand.

Ms Kapata: You are supposed to stop.

Dr Musokotwane: To stop, thank you. You are very educated, my sister, for telling me that.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: So, you are forced to stop and, when you do that, you do not cut off the engine. The engine will be running. Now, while you are waiting, supposing you use even as little as 50 ml of fuel to keep the engine of your stationary car running and about 250,000 of the roughly 350,000 cars that I was told were in Zambia around 2011/2012, which should be more by now, are involved, in total, 12,500 l of fuel would be wasted. In a month, it will be 312,000 l wasted. In a year, …

Dr Kaingu: Ni economist, uyu.

Dr Musokotwane: … 3.75 million litres will be wasted. The amount of money associated with this is K37 million. In the unrebased currency, it would be K37 billion wasted on running engines at road blocks. So, this issue looks small but, for the entire economy, it is very significant. It can make the difference between the competitiveness and non-competitiveness of an economy on the export markets where we compete with other countries. The road blocks are very, very wasteful.

Mr Chairperson, additionally, if you have observed, you will have seen that all the points on roads at which there are permanent road blocks have been damaged. The reason is that heavy trucks have to stop there and start off again, exerting a lot of force on the road. Remember, we were taught in engineering science, which I did in school, that, when a force is applied, there is a counter reaction. So, the force of the truck pushes the foundation backwards because, unfortunately, the soil is not strong enough to withstand the force exerted by the truck. If you go to the permanent road block in Kafue, you will see that the road is damaged. There is another place somewhere on the Copperbelt and many other places where that has happened.

Dr Kaingu: Kafulafuta.

Dr Musokotwane: Kafulafuta, yes. So, we have to find money for repairing the roads because of the damage done by the road blocks. Evidently, those road blocks are extremely destructive.

Dr Kaingu: Mwamvela?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, there are also non-economic consequences. Everyone must know that, if a police officer goes to the extent of using their own private vehicle to go and mount a road block, there must be some motivation, which is corruption. For this Government, which says that it has zero tolerance for corruption, to see that happen everyday, but do nothing about it is hypocritical. How can we be convinced that there is zero tolerance to corruption? The final consequence I want to talk about is with regard to security. 

Mr Chairperson, if you go into Game Stores, you will find gadgets called Global Position System (GPS) that you can buy and use for navigation. I have one in my car. Those gadgets happen to be pre-set with certain things. If you want, you can set it to beep whenever you approach a school so that you slow down. Mine is set to beep every time I come within 5 km of road block on any Zambian road.

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: So, if I were a sophisticated criminal, would the road block be a hindrance to me when I can tell where there is a road block and avoid it by going through the bush? So, it is the law-abiding people who are suffering from these road blocks while the real criminals are very clever and find a way of skirting around the road blocks. If the road blocks can be reduced, money would be saved.

Mr Chairperson, finally, I appeal to the hon. Minister that the whole of Liuwa has only one police post, yet the area is about 130 km from north to south and about 50 to 60 km from east to west. So, there is no police presence, yet we border Angola. So, criminals take advantage of that to steal from Zambia and cross into Angola or vice versa. 

Mr Chairperson, as we speak, there is a school called Mushikula in Liuwa, which was closed earlier this year because gangsters stole solar panels from there.

Hon. Member: Aah!

Dr Musokotwane: The matter was reported to the police, but nothing happened. The gangsters felt that they were so strong that they could be reported to the police without anything happening to them. So, they went to threaten the headteaher and his subordinates.  So, the teachers and their head decided to abandon the school saying that it was not their mothers’ for them to die over it. I do not know whether the school has now re-opened. So, we need a police post in Liuwa. I fact, we need three or four of them. As a constituency bordering another country, we need a significant police presence. Otherwise, all the cases of Karavinas and schools being closed will continue.

Mr Chairperson, I hope that the hon. Minister will address the issues that I have raised. Hopefully, we can see fewer road blocks and money can be saved for more useful work.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to debate. I will briefly discuss two areas in the ministry, the first of which is transport.

Mr Chairperson, our police are suffering where transport is concerned. There have been many instances when crimes have been reported to the police just for the victims to be told that the police officers have no transport. So, it is the duty of the ministry to provide transport for our officers. 

Mr Chairperson, where I come from, in Kaoma, we have four constituencies.

Hon. Sikazwe: In Angola.

Mr Antonio: Oh, in Angola, not Tanzania.

Laughter

Mr Antonio: Mr Chairperson, where I come from, in Kaoma, there are four constituencies and three districts, but our police has only one vehicle to cater for all of them. So, it is very difficult for the police to operate. So, it is my humble appeal that the ministry considers increasing the number of vehicles to police stations in our country.

Mr Chairperson, the second issue that I would like to talk about is infrastructure. Fifty years after Independence, areas like Kaoma still have no police structures of their own. The structure that is used as a police station in Kaoma is for the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, and it is embarrassing that, even after the initiative by the local authority to provide land for the Ministry of Home Affairs to construct a police station and a camp, nothing is happening. So, I would like the hon. Minister to take this issue up and let it reflect in the 2016 Budget for Kaoma. The town should now receive a police station.

Mr Chairperson, I am aware that the hon. Minister is aware that Kaoma is now the highest populated district in the Western Province, but it is so embarrassing that it does not have a police station of its own and is using the old structures that the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education has abandoned. We took the initiative to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to construct one police post, which we have completed, in an area called Chitwa. Now, it is the duty of the ministry to budget for the houses for the officers in this area. We have been told that the ministry has been recruiting officers. We pray that some of them will be sent to that area so that the services of the police are appreciated. Using the CDF, we took the initiative of constructing another police post in Kaoma Town, just next to the post office. However, as we all are aware, the CDF is not enough to fund all these programmes. Therefore, the ministry should come to our aid and reflect in the 2016 Budget all these programmes that we are thinking of implementing, since we are passing the 2015 Budget.

Mr Chairperson, we have another embarrassing case in Kaoma. During the reign of our colleagues, the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD), there was a contractor who was engaged to construct a police station and houses in the new district of Nkeyema. As we speak, the houses have been completed and officers are occupying the houses, but nothing has happened concerning the police station and the cement that was purchased has actually been spoiled. However, it is sad to mention that the contractor was given a certificate of completion. So, we do not even know what was completed because the materials have just been left and are being kept by the community. These are some of the things that we want our police to take care of. 

Mr Chairperson, I said that I would be brief. Therefore, with those few words, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, I would like to support the Votes with observations.

Mr Chairperson, how many times have we changed governments? Many times. However, how many changes have we effected in Kalabo? From the Boma to the boundary with Nalolo, it is about 100 km. From the Boma to the boundary with Sikongo, it is another 100 km. In this whole area, including Liuwa Constituency, there is only one police station served by one broken-down vehicle. So, my request to the Ministry of Home Affairs is for it to consider the old police stations, whose houses are dilapidated. Some of them have been vacated. So, there is a need for infrastructure. If there is a plan for infrastructure development, let the Government not just concentrate on the new districts. 

Mr Chairperson, when you have an old man in the village, you will not only buy food for the baby because the old man also needs care. So, the old districts also need rehabilitation and new infrastructure to motivate and meet the expectation of the workers. Serving in rural areas is hard enough. Therefore, to make those workers happy, the Government must provide good accommodation for them.

Mr Chairperson, districts used to receive 300 L of diesel per month. However, that was reduced to 200 L. I request the ministry to help Mr Masambo so that he is able to move. Motor vehicles consume a lot of fuel in sandy terrain. So, when you reduce the allocations, you are cutting down on their movements. It is like you do not want those people to reach the outskirts. There is cattle rustling and suspects are apprehended but, how do they move?  Let us go back to the previous 300 L so that you enable the police to visit our people in Kalabo and Liuwa constituencies. As regards police presence, it is very difficult to see a police officer even in the Boma. You might not even know whether there is a police station or police officers. The number of officers is too small. Allocate those officers who have been recruited to such places. The rate at which crime is rising in towns and cities is the same in any part of this country. Therefore, to curb the rising rate of crime, we need a heavy presence of police officers.

Mr Chairperson, it is also important to promote the officers. We want to see the officers promoted. They should not be constables throughout their career. What do you think will make them feel like real workers if they do not get promoted? When they are not promoted, they feel neglected. So, promotions are important. It is not fair for those people to remain constables just because they were originally employed as such. Who said that, that should be the case? You send police officers from other districts to Kalabo on promotion at the expense of the officers who are already working in the district. That is very bad. Please, do not do that. We want the people who have been serving us in Kalabo to be promoted within the district. Do not transfer them to other places. Hon. Minister, do you hear what I am saying here?

Laughter 

The Chairperson: Order!

Please, address the Chair.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, those people must be promoted. We have been working with them and have seen that they are not bad people. There is no point in the Government taking people from elsewhere to Kalabo on promotion. Besides, the officers in Kalabo went to the same training school in Lilayi that every other police officer has gone to. So, they are as qualified as everyone else.  

Mr Chairperson, we will be having a Presidential by-Election and people have demanded professionalism in the police. I witnessed the lack of professionalism in the police for the first time and we do not want that. We want the police to work for Zambians, not for the Patriotic Front (PF). The police should not be working for a political party like it used to do in the past.

Interruptions

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, this is 2014, but we still have officers who give their allegiance to a political party instead of the nation, yet the taxes that pay their salaries are paid by Zambians. Why can we not have a neutral police? 

Mr Chairperson, the police must understand that we want it to be fair to every Zambian regardless of who that person is. Cases are reported during by-elections, but the police officers are reluctant to act on them, preferring to bury their heads in the sand because of the PF’s involvement. We do not want that. Peace and unity should prevail. When you provoke someone, but this person is too docile to react, you will say that they are peaceful. However, that is not peace. You have just taken advantage of the person. I have used the word ‘docile’ because it is allowed. We, in the rural areas, just fear the police. So, that is not peace because peace can only prevail where people are free to do what is right, not when they are repressed and are not allowed to move freely. Just this Sunday, I went to my constituency and, immediately I arrived there, I received a telephone call informing me that the police did not want people to move about. Who said that there is a state of emergency in Zambia? Is there a curfew? We do not want such rules and administration. Let the police work professionally. The police in Kalabo stopped people from moving at 2100 hours on Sunday. You can call Mr Masambo to confirm that. In short, I advise police officers to behave properly so that we have elections that will be free and fair.

I thank you, Sir. 

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Chairperson, I thank all the hon. Members who have contributed to this debate for supporting the Budget for the Ministry of Home Affairs.

Mr Chairperson, I just want to remind my hon. Colleagues that, when they rise to speak in this Chamber, they must always be mindful of the fact that these proceedings are broadcast live and the Zambians out there are listening. 

Sir, the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central, Mr Nkombo, is now on record calling Zambians docile people, which is an affront to them. If Zambians were docile, we would not have celebrated our Golden Jubilee and we would still be under the one-party State regime.  The fact that Zambians are peace-loving must not be taken for docility. Zambians are peace-loving by nature and have always been that way. That is why you will not find a Zambian refugee abroad. Instead, Zambia has hosted refugees from all over the continent because we are an oasis of peace. 

Mr Chairperson, in fifty-nine days, we will be having a Presidential By-election. By the way, this will be the twelfth Presidential Election since Independence. So, I call upon all Zambians to go about the elections as they have always done, which is, in peace. Of course, the police will play its role. When the police go about their work, there is no sacred cow. Anyone who transgresses the law must be answerable to it. 

Sir, as I stated in my statement earlier, police officers have been working under very trying circumstances so that you and I can go about our business in a safe and secure environment. To begin with, the number of police officers is small. They are few. Therefore, we owe so much to a few police officers. The current police-client ratio is about 1:800. The PF, which formed Government in September, 2011, found a police force of slightly over 14,000 policing a population of about 13 million people. In just three years, under the able leadership of our late President, His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, may his soul rest in peace, this number increased to 18,778, as of yesterday. Let me take advantage of this opportunity to inform this august House that I officiated at the pass out parade of over 351 police officers at Kamfinsa Mobile Unit yesterday. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Simbyakula: Sir, our objective is to raise the number to 27,000 and I have no doubt that, by 2016, the PF Government will have raised it to over 20,000. Note that I did not say, “If the PF reaches 2016”. That is because of the fact the PF will win the 2016 elections. So, winning the upcoming by-election is a foregone conclusion. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Simbyakula: Sir, I agree with Hon. Dr Musokotwane, Hon. Miyutu and my good friend from Kaoma, Hon. Antonio, that the presence of the police is vital in all areas. That is why we recruit officers constantly. The presence of police deters criminal minds. Just the sight of a uniform or a cap, as Hon. Miyutu said, is a deterrent to criminal behaviour. 

Hon. Mbulakulima mentioned a very valid point. This Government wants to improve the conditions of service for our police officers. Their accommodation is terrible, to say the least. However, I am hopeful that, by 2015, the construction of the over 10,000 housing units for officers under my ministry will commence. Hopefully, that will act as an incentive for them to perform even better. 

Mr Chairperson, I mentioned, in my statement, that we have made provisions in the budget for the continuous professional development of officers. I say this because hon. Members referred to the issue of professionalism in the police force. I can only say that we keep working on it because, just like any other profession, we need continuous professional development in the police. All in all, I thank, most earnestly, my hon. Colleagues for the unanimous support that they have given to this budget. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 11/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 11/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 11/11 – (Zambia Police – Ministry of Home Affairs – Central Province – K55,786,903).

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 049 – Rehabilitation of Water and Sewer Systems – K100,000. Where will the rehabilitation take place?

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Chairperson, once all the procurement processes have been completed, the works should be expected to commence. 

I thank you, Sir. 

The Chairperson:  Where is it going to take place? 

Mr Kampyongo: In Central Province. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 11/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 11/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/01 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Headquarters – K115,774,933).

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4012, Activity 218 – Construction of Lukulu Border Control – Nil. This year, the Activity was allocated K600,000 but, for next year, there is no allocation. Where is this border post? Is it really in Lukulu?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, indeed, the border post referred to in Programme 4012, Activity 218 – Construction of Lukulu Border Control, is in Lukulu District. 

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/02 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Prisons and Reformatories – K205,173,036).

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4010, Activity 025 – Budget Preparations – Nil. Why is there no allocation to this Activity next year? Will there be no preparation of the budget for this department next year?

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Chilangwa): Mr Chairperson, Programme 4010, Activity 025 – Budget Preparations – Nil, has been moved to Programme 4042.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, on the same page, I seek clarification on Programme 4026, Activity 009 – Treatment of Prisoners/Officers –Nil. Why is there no allocation for the treatment of prisoners next year?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4026, Activity 009 – Treatment of Prisoners/Officers – Nil, the Activity has been re-aligned to the provinces under Programme 4013, Activity 042 – Station Operations Grant. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Vote 15/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/13 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Western Province – Prisons and Reformatories – K1,561,581).

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I seek clarification on Programme 4054, Activity 001 – Chaplaincy – K50,000. There is a reduction from this year’s allocation. Why is that the case?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4054, Activity 001 – Chaplaincy – K50,000, is required to conduct religious activities. The reduction is due to the scaling down of activities.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, on the same page, I seek clarification on Programme 4013, Activity 047 – District Office Administration – Nil. How will the offices be administered when no money has been allocated to the Activity next year?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4013, Activity 047 – District Office Administration – Nil, has been moved to Activity 083 – Station Operations Grant, under the same programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!

There are loud consultations. I need silence. 

Vote 15/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 15/19 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Central Province – Passport and Citizenship – K203,601).

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4001, Activity 003, Office Administration – K45,460. Although my question is specifically on Activity 003, I have noted that the allocations for all such Activities have been reduced by K5. This Vote was allocated K50,460 this year.  What has led to this reduction?

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 4001, Activity 003, Office Administration – K45,460, the decrease is because some funds have been moved to Activity 009, Utilities under the same Programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE15/26 – (Ministry of Home Affairs – Lusaka Province – Immigration Department – K1,297,696).

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 4023, Crime Detection and Prevention – Nil. Why have all the Activities under this programme not been funded? 

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, the Activity has been moved.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: Where has it been moved?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, it has been moved to Programme 4013.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 15/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/38 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/39 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/50 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/56 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/57 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/58 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 15/59 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 16/01 – (Drug Enforcement Commission − Headquarters – K68,619,638).

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4002, Activity 010 – International Women’s Day Celebrations – K10,001. This year, K25,361 was allocated for this activity, but it has been reduced to K10,001 for next year. Is it because we do not want our women to participate in the International Women’s Day Celebrations?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 4002, Activity 010 – International Women’s Day Celebrations – K10,001, the reduction is due to the re-alignment of the Activities.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4003, Activity 033 – Basic Police Training – Nil. Why is there no allocation for this Activity in next year’s Budget?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, Programme 4003, Activity 033 – Basic Police Training – Nil will be taken care of under Activity 031 – Induction Investigation Course – K125,315 under the same programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 4037, Activity 009 – Strategic Planning – Nil. Why is there no allocation to this Activity? Is it because the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) does not want have planning activities next year?

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 4037, Activity 009 – Strategic Planning – Nil, the Activity has been concluded and will now be taken under Programme 4123, Activity 001 – Strategic Plan Annual Performance Review – K50,279.

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, that is a contradiction to your earlier statement that strategic planning has been concluded. You are now saying that it has been taken to another Programme. Could you be clearer.

Mr Chilangwa: Mr Chairperson, the strategic planning was concluded. The only thing that remains is monitoring and review of the policy.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 16/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Ministers consulted one another loudly.

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Ministers!

Vote 16/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 16/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

______

The House adjourned at 1227 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 25th November, 2014.