DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 28th November, 2014

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 2nd December, 2014, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. That will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2015 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure, and consider the following Heads:

Head 89 – Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock

Head 76 – Ministry of Youth and Sport

Head 87 – Anti-Corruption Commission

Mr Speaker, on Wednesday, 3rd December, 2014, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider Private Member’s Motions, if there will be any. The House will, then, resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2015 Budget to consider the following Heads of Expenditure:

Head 51 – Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications

Head 21 – Loans and Investment, Ministry of Finance

Head 37 – Ministry of Finance

Mr Speaker, on Thursday, 4th December, 2014, the Business of the House will start with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will, then, resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2015 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure, and the following Heads will be considered:

Head 33 – Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry

Head 80 – Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education.

Sir, on Friday, 5th December, 2014, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider Government Bills, if there will be any. Then, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on the 2015 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure, and consider the following Head:
 
Head 88, 90-98 – Office of the President 98 – Provinces

The House will, then, deal with any outstanding matter. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

_________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

COMBATING ILLEGAL MINING IN NATIONAL PARKS

249. Mr Matafwali (Bangweulu) asked the Minister of Tourism and Art what measures the Government had taken to stop illegal mining in national parks.

The Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President (Mr Mwango) (on behalf of the Minister of Tourism and Art (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker the Government undertakes Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA), through the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA), before permitting any mining activity, whether in protected areas or outside them. However, the assessments are stricter in protected areas and mining activities are only considered when the mineral is of exceptional value to the national economy.

Mr Speaker, ZEMA uses the Strategic Environment Assessment (SEA) to determine the areas in which the extraction of minerals and hydro-carbons can be done and those in which other activities should be prioritised. Further, the Government uses land use planning and zoning to cover the interests of mining and bio-diversity conservation. As a consequence, some areas are protected from mining activities for the long-term economic and cultural benefit. The zoning guides the Government to identifying the areas for immediate use and those for preserving for long-term gain.

Sir, the Government is also in the process of developing guidelines that will ensure that the extraction of minerals is not done at the expense of the country’s biological resources, which are important for the development of tourism. The guidelines will help the Government and the private sector involved in the extractive industry to avoid irreversible impacts on key eco-systems and bio-diversity.

Mr Speaker, there is close collaboration among the ministries of Mines, Energy and Water Development; Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection; and Tourism and Art in ensuring that mining permits are not erroneously given. Furthermore, the Zambia Wild Life Authority (ZAWA) and the Forestry Department ensure that people found in protected areas have defined purposes for which they are allowed to be in those areas through a statutory permit.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

___________ 

BILL

FIRST READING

THE ZAMBIA REVENUE AUTHORITY (Amendment) BILL, 2014

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled the Zambia Revenue Authority (Amendment) Bill, 2014. The object of the Bill is to amend the Zambia Revenue Authority Act so as to indemnify the authority against any form of execution of a judgment or a court order obtained against it.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Friday, 12th December, 2014. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

________  

MOTION

WAYS AND MEANS

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now resolve into Committee of Ways and Means to consider the raising of supply. I am a bearer of six messages from His Excellency the Acting President recommending that these Motions that I now lay on the Table be proceeded with in this House.

Mr Chikwanda laid the paper on the Table.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, pursuant to the Budget that I presented to this House on 11th October, 2014, it is necessary to introduce some financial measures, which I will outline in the Committee.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to. 

__________

COMMITTEE OF WAYS AND MEANS

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

THE INCOME TAX ACT

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Income Tax Act so as to:

(a)    increase the tax payable by public service vehicles carrying passengers;

(b)    restrict the deduction of bad and doubtful debts incurred by banks and other financial institutions when determining taxable income;

(c)    remove the requirement for businesses to submit financial statements and other information with the electronically filed annual returns;

(d)    align the tax incentive applicable to manufacturing enterprises located in the rural areas, multi-facility economic zone or industrial park with the Zambia Development Agency Act 2006;

(e)    align the definition of minerals with the definition provided in the Mines and Minerals Development Act of 2008;

(f)    restructure the tax regime for businesses undertaking mining operations; and 

(g)    provide for  matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Mr Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is to enable me to introduce legislation to amend the Income Tax Act so as to introduce the changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 11th October, 2014.

Mr Chairperson, I beg to move.

Question put and agreed to. 

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE TAX ACT

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Customs and Excise Tax Act so as to:

(a)    increase excise duty  on un-denatured spirits of alcoholic content of 8 per cent or higher for unlicensed manufacturers;

(b)    increase the customs duty on explosives;

(c)    increase the customs duty on roofing sheets termed as flat iron sheets and non-alloy steel for customs purposes;

(d)    increase the specific customs duty rate on edible oils;

(e)    remove the customs duty on aviation fuel; and

(f)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.
I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to. 

PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX ACT

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Property Transfer Tax Act so as to limit the exemption from paying property transfer tax to holding companies in Zambia where there is a group re-organisation to a group of companies of which the holding company is incorporated in Zambia. 

Mr Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is to enable me to introduce legislation to amend the Property Transfer Tax so as to introduce the changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 11th October, 2014. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Question put and agreed to. 

MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT ACT

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Mines and Minerals Development Act so as to:

(a)    increase the mineral royalty tax from:

(i)    6 per cent to 8 per cent for underground mining operations; and

(ii)    6 per cent to 20 per cent for open-cast mining operations; and 

(b)    to provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Mr Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is to enable me to introduce legislation to amend the Mines and Minerals Development Act so as to introduce the changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 11th October, 2014. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Question and agreed to. 

VALUE ADDED TAX ACT

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Value Added Tax Act so as to: 

(a)    provide for mandatory electronic filing for returns where the return has ten or more transactions;

(b)    provide clarity on the effective dates of charging penalty on delayed payment of taxes due on a return;
(c)    provide for the de-registration of suppliers whose turnover falls below the registration threshold within an accounting year;

(d)    provide clarity on the anti-tax avoidance provisions; and

(e)    provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Mr Chairperson, the purpose of the Motion is to enable me to introduce legislation to amend the Value Added tax Act so as to introduce the changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 10th October, 2014. 

I thank you, Sir. 

The Chairperson: The Question is that it is expedient to amend the Value Added Tax Act so as to achieve objectives (a) to (e) and that a Bill to give effect to this be introduced accordingly. 

As many as are of that opinion say ‘Aye’.

Hon. Government Members: (Lowly) Aye!

The Chairperson: Of the contrary say ‘No’.

Hon. Opposition Members: (Loudly) No!

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Chairperson: I think that the “Ayes” have it. 

This should remind the people on my right not to take things for granted. 

Laughter 

Question put and agreed to.  

LOCAL GOVERNMENT ACT

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Local Government Act so as to provide for:

(a)    the establishment of the Local Government Equalisation Fund;

(b)    the provision of specific grants for functions devolved to councils ; and

(c)    matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Mr Chairperson, the purpose of this Motion is to enable me to introduce legislation to amend the Local Government Act so as to introduce the changes that I announced in my Budget Speech on 11th October, 2014.

I thank you, Sir.
Question put and agreed to.

______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Resolutions reported.

Report adopted.

Question put and agreed to and Mr Speaker appointed the hon. Minister of Finance to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bills to give effect to the resolutions of the Committee of Ways and Means.

______

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE INCOME TAX (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2014

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled, “An Act to Amend the Income Tax Act”.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Tuesday, 16th December, 2014. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you. 

THE CUSTOMS AND EXCISE (Amendment) BILL, 2014

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled, “An Act to Amend the Customs and Excise Tax”.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House on Tuesday, 16th December, 2014. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee. 

Thank you. 

THE PROPERTY TRANSFER TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2014

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled, “An Act to amend the Property Transfer Tax Act”.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House on Friday, 12th December, 2014. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee. 

Thank you. 

THE MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT (Amendment) BILL, 2014

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled, “An Act to amend the Mines and Minerals Development Act”.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House on Tuesday, 16th December, 2014. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee. 

Thank you. 

THE VALUE ADDED TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2014

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled, “An Act to amend the Value Added Tax”. 

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Estimates. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House on Friday, 12th December, 2014. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee. 

Thank you. 

THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT (Amendment) BILL, 2014

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill titled, “An Act to amend the Local Government Act”.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Economic Affairs. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House on Friday, 12th December, 2014. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions on or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee. 

Thank you. 

__________  

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

VOTE 45 – (Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health – K2,028,157,674).

The Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mrs Kabanshi): Mr Chairperson, I am profoundly grateful to you for according me this opportunity to debate the estimates of expenditure for the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health for 2015, which stands at K2,028,157,674 compared with this year’s approved budget of K1,890,332,561.

Sir, before I go further, let me convey my sincere condolences to the First Family and the citizens of Zambia on the loss of a great leader, who was a peace maker, a visionary and had the vulnerable at heart.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hmm.

Mrs Kabanshi: It was under his tenure that the Social Cash Transfer Scheme (SCTS) was scaled up from thirteen to fifty districts. The late President did not want to leave anyone behind, be it a woman, the disabled, a street vendor, a child or an elderly person. To him, every woman, man and child counted. May his soul rest in peace.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health is a key institution in the provision and facilitation of social protection to the poor and vulnerable groups. As you may be aware, my ministry is also at the helm of promoting maternal, new-born and child health through the provision of primary health care services at the district level, which contributes significantly to poverty reduction and the provision of integrated health care services.

Sir, the Government, through my ministry, will continue to provide and facilitate the provision of services in the areas of social welfare and community development, and to empower and rehabilitate persons with disabilities, survivors of gender-based violence (GBV) and victims of human trafficking. The ministry will also continue providing services in safe motherhood, adolescent and reproductive health, prevention of mother-to-child transmission of the Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV), paediatric HIV, child immunisation, health promotion, nutrition and the integrated management of childhood illnesses.

Sir, allow me to highlight some of the key programmes under my ministry for 2015.

The Social Cash Transfer Scheme

The SCTS aims at delivering social assistance in the form of cash to those who are extremely poor, incapacitated and unreachable by labour-based programmes. They, therefore, need regular and continuous assistance to survive and break the intergenerational transfer of poverty. Currently, the Government supports over 145,000 beneficiary households, which translates into 725,000 individuals. The ministry also undertook various activities to strengthen the implementation of the SCTS through training of officers so that they can reach every household, and procured and distributed motor vehicles, motorcycle, bicycles and information communication technology (ICT) equipment in an effort to enhance service delivery in the districts. Further, as part of the scaling-up process, the ministry reactivated community structures and sensitised stakeholders, who included traditional and community leaders.

Sir, in 2015, K180.6 million has been allocated to this programme, with K150 million meant for direct transfers to beneficiaries. Our co-operating partners will provide K30.6 million for the strengthening of the programme’s implementation systems. The engagement of a payment service provider for transfers in order to reduce possible fiduciary risks as we scale up this programme nationwide will also be prioritised in the 2015 Ministerial Budget. Further, to strengthen capacity, the Government will roll out the Management Information System (MIS) to all the implementing districts so that there is access to real-time information for decision-making. This clearly demonstrates the Patriotic Front (PF) Government’s resolve to uplift the living standards of poor and disadvantaged groups in our society.

Food Security Pack (FSP)

Mr Chairperson, the ministry will continue to implement the Food Security Pack (FSP) Programme in all the districts and K52.75 million has been allocated to the programme in the 2015 Budget, compared with K50 million in 2014. The overall objective of the programme is to eradicate hunger and improve food security among vulnerable households in the country. In 2014, the programme supported 30,100 farming households under rain-fed farming. Five thousand households were also provided with alternative livelihood interventions, which included animal rearing and fish farming.

Sir, under the 2015 Budget, the ministry will target approximately 45,000 farmers, with emphasis placed on adoption of innovations currently taking place in the delivery of low-value inputs to rural and poor farming households. 

The Women’s Development Programme

Mr Chairperson, my ministry will continue to empower women by providing grants and micro credits to women’s clubs and associations to support their income-generating activities. The ministry also intends to decentralise its systems so that districts can award grants and micro credits, as opposed to that being done from the centre. This is intended to promote efficiency and effectiveness in the 2015 Budget. The Government has allocated K16.9 million to this project in 2015.

Mother and Child Health 

Sir, my ministry has made significant strides in the health sector, as evidenced by the 2012 Demographic Health Survey (DHS), which shows a reduction in infant mortality rates from 107 to 45 per 1,000 live births and a reduction in under-five mortality rates from 191 to 75 per 1,000 live births. Further, maternal mortality has also reduced significantly from the rate of 591 to 398 per 100,000 live births. All this is attributable to the investments that are currently being made in the area of health human resource, infrastructure development, and provision of drugs, medical supplies and commodities. We shall continue with these programmes.

Mr Chairperson, in 2015, my ministry intends to implement integrated programmes at the district level in order to achieve the following:

(a)    increased coverage of immunisation;

(b)    improved nutrition; 

(c)    enhanced post-natal care;

(d)    increased accessibility of family planning services;

(e)    increased malaria control;

(f)    increased awareness of non-communicable diseases, such as hypertension and diabetes;

(g)    increased attention to neglected tropical diseases, such as bilharzia;

(h)    increased provision of male circumcision services in order to mitigate HIV transmission;

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Kabanshi: 

(i)    promotion of environmental health;

(j)    control and treatment of tuberculosis and leprosy; and 

(k)    provision of anti-retroviral therapy.

Mr Chairperson, in order to support these programmes, my ministry has allocated K253 million towards health service delivery and health systems management, compared to K248.8 million in the 2014 Budget.

Sir, last but not least, the implementation of the Non-Governmental Organisations Act No. 16 of 2009 is cardinal. To that effect, my ministry has, so far, registered more than 350 non-governmental organisations (NGOs). Of the NGOs that have been registered since the commencement of the exercise in 2013, 265 are local while eighty-five are international. It is for this reason that my ministry, in consultation with other stakeholders, has developed a roadmap for reviewing the Act, as stipulated in the PF Manifesto, with a view to improving the regulation and registration of NGO programming in the country. 

Mr Chairperson, in the 2015 Budget, K2.9 million has been allocated to the Registrar of NGOs, compared with K2.8 million in the 2014 Budget. 

Sir, with these submissions, I beg this House to support my ministry’s budget for 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Any further debate? 
Hon. Hamududu. I hope you are not challenging me again today.

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Chairperson, today, I will be the professional politician you know me to be …

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: … and will stick to issues because there are serious issues that we need to address under this ministry. Next week, I will come back and play that electioneering card and make a contribution to my party but, today, I will be professional. 

Mr Chairperson, this ministry is very important because it addresses many issues that relate to poverty reduction. As admitted by the hon. Ministers of Finance, and Community Development, Mother and Child Health, poverty levels are high in this country, and we must institute poverty alleviation measures in our communities. In this regard, one of the key instruments is the Social Cash Transfer Scheme (SCTS) that the hon. Minister has mentioned. We have the National Social Protection Policy, which spells out exactly what the ministry is supposed to do and has a funding trajectory with which the ministry must keep pace in order for it to achieve its goals. 

Mr Chairperson, I agree with the hon. Minister that there was some political will towards poverty alleviation in the PF. For example, from 2013 to 2014, there was an unprecedented 800 per cent increase in funding to the SCTS, which increased the number of beneficiaries from about 60,000 beneficiaries in 2013 to 185,000 in 2014. However, this year, you are proposing a 9 per cent reduction in funding. That is falling back. The ministry has taken many steps forward, but it now proposes to move backwards, …

Mr Muntanga: Yes.

Mr Hamududu: … which contradicts this Government’s claim of being pro-poor. The Government must be consistent with its pro-poor programmes because the poverty among our people is real and we have seen serious income inequalities over the last fifteen years, especially in the rural and peri-urban areas. In this year of Jubilee, we must think of the poor. To quote my uncle, Hon. Chikwanda, we must practise true human fellowship and solidarity.

Mr Chikwanda indicated assent.

Mr Hamududu: The SCTS is an aspect of human fellowship and solidarity. The Government cannot reduce the funding to this programme. In fact, if there is a way, this House must re-allocate some money from other sectors to this Vote so that we can continue with the upward trajectory of the funding to this programme.

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, currently, the ministry needs about K50 million more to keep up with its projected trajectory of funding to the SCTS. So, the hon. Minister should have indicated that she has not been given enough money. Maybe, there is poor prioritisation in the ministry.

Sir, I think that the hon. Minister of Finance has provided the resources. The problem is with priority-setting and implementation in the line ministries. The hon. Minister cannot sit with her technocrats and decide to under-value the SCTS. So, we need to delve into your budget and see where we can glean some money to divert to this programme because it is one of the flagship programmes in the ministry’s efforts to address the despicable poverty levels among our people. We need to allocate K50 million more to the programme, and I hope that the hon. Minister and her counterpart in the Ministry of Finance will discuss the modalities for amending this ministerial budget because we must pass the National Budget. The Budget cannot come through to this House and go through without any changes. Zambians call us Parliamentarians. So, let us amend the Budget and find the required additional K50 million for the SCTS.

Sir, the SCTS is important in poverty mapping in this country. The 40 per cent level of extreme poverty is unacceptable in an economy that has been growing at over 5 per cent in the last ten years. The resources are available, but we have the problem of poor prioritisation and implementation. That is why our budgeting system has to evolve. We must have significant input from the civil society and other stakeholders in the Budget. We have enough information on what should be done and understand what the right thing to do is. Therefore, I do not understand why the people who draft the Budget get their priorities wrong. We need to quickly do something about that in the remaining three weeks of this meeting.
 
Sir, most of the money in this country is concentrated in towns on the line of rail and a few others. So, the SCTS enhances the access to cash of people in rural areas. The people who live in most rural parts of the country do not have much access to cash. So, the SCTS directly alleviates poverty among the beneficiaries and jump-starts rural economies. Under this scheme, each beneficiary gets about K70. Therefore, if 1,000 people are targeted in a place like Shang’ombo District, the combined amount that gets to the district would make a very big difference to that rural economy by injecting funds and starting small and medium enterprises (SMEs) thriving. The beneficiaries put money in circulation in the economy of the district. The programme is also one way of creating employment for the youths, who can run small shops and other businesses on which the beneficiaries can spend their money. It is difficult to even find a K2 in rural places. 

Mr Kampyongo indicated assent.

Mr Hamududu: I can see one hon. Minister nodding his head. Yes, tubombele pamo. Let us work together.

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: The SCTS can help us revive our rural economies. 

In her policy statement, the hon. Minister indicated that to reach all the people in extreme poverty, it should cover, at least, 10 per cent of the country’s population, which is about 1.4 million people. So, if you multiply K70 by twelve months by 1.4 million people, you get about K1.2 billion. That is the amount required to cover all the extremely poor people in all the districts of Zambia, not only the fifty districts currently covered. This amount is about 2.5 per cent of the National Budget. When we add administrative costs, it comes to about 3 per cent. So, we can do it in one fiscal year. Is 3 per cent of the Budget too much to give to the poor? We suggest that the SCTS covers the whole country, as envisaged by the Government, according to the hon. Minister’s statement. 

Sir, the other issue I want to talk about is that of nutrition. Although nutrition is a multi-sectoral issue, this ministry has to provide leadership on the matter because the National Food and Nutrition Commission (NFNC) is under it. This country has what we call the double burden of malnutrition. Under-nutrition limits the intellectual and physical development of children, adversely affects their overall growth and negatively impacts on the human capital potential of our country. It is now beginning to show that the productivity of this country is one of the lowest in the Southern African Development Community (SADC) region. Even our old guards are beating the younger generation when it comes to dedication to duty. I went to see the hon. Minister of Finance and found him in his office by 0630 hours, a time when most young people would still be sleeping. Is that not a sign of malnutrition?

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: The kind of hard work shown by the hon. Minister of Finance is what we need, as a country. Most people find the hon. Minister at the office when they report for work two hours later than him. The low productivity of this country, which needs to be addressed, can actually be traced back to malnutrition of our children over the years. So, we need to invest in proper nutrition for our children so that we avoid undermining the future human capital of our country. As you know, the most important resource any country can have is human capital, not minerals, land or water. Therefore, if we fail to nature our human capital, there will be very serious consequences for this country. 

Sir, the latest Demographic Health Survey (DHS) report shows that 40 per cent of children under five children are stunted. The statistic shows a reduction of about 5 per cent. However, it still shows that we are raising a damaged population. Therefore, we must do everything possible to reduce under-nutrition among children.

Mr Chairperson, the flip side of the nutritional problem is over-nutrition. The few people who are privileged are now becoming over-nourished. In other words, they are obese and overweight. 

Sir, I go to the gymnasium every morning and, I think, we need a proper gymnasium at Parliament so that we lead by example in the issue of physical fitness. The gymnasium at the Parliament Motel is too small. As hon. Members, we must exercise and eat the right things every morning, not eating fried foods saying, “Nadyela”. Siuna dyele, wadyewa.

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: There are many fast food restaurants that sell unhealthy foods. We must provide leadership in avoiding such foods. There too many processed foods on the market. Some people even insist on breakfast mealie meal and other refined foods. Do they want to die early? By now, people must have been opting for roller meal and mugayiwa, which are even cheaper than breakfast mealie meal.

Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: So, we have no excuse for eating the wrong things. Why should we have so much refined mealie meal around causing obesity? We need to do something about that because it has serious economic consequences, including the health burden on the Ministry of Health, which we need to avoid so as to reduce the expenditure on treatment. We can now invest in prevention, which is better than cure.

Sir, another thing I want to mention is that the NFNC must be high-profiled. Since nutrition is a cross-cutting issue, the NFNC must not fall under one ministry, but in the Office of the President or the Vice-President to provide the necessary political will. It must have the right political clout so that all ministries, such as the ministries of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education; Agriculture and Livestock; and all others that have some nutrition components can address themselves to the nutrition agenda of this country. 

Sir, the Government has just launched the 1,000 Most Critical Days Programme. The 1,000 most critical days are from the time a woman, for example, my wife, gets pregnant to the second birthday of the child. So, mother and child health becomes very important. When a woman is pregnant, she must have the right nutrition. Further, the foundation of a child’s health is laid in the first two years and, if that foundation is shaky, any future investments in the child will build on a weak foundation. So, let us do something at that level. By the way, some other hon. Members and I, who share this concern, have formed a Parliamentary Caucus on Food and Nutrition, which will provide proper oversight on the issue. We want to complement the work of our colleagues in the Executive and collaborate with them. We will launch the caucus very soon. 

Sir, finally, I want to talk about reproductive health. I would like to mention that I met with my sister, the hon. Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, in New York, where I was the only African hon. Member invited by the European Parliamentary Forum (EPF) to represent the whole of Africa on the Population and Development Compact. 

Mr Livune: Is that so?

Laughter 

Mr Hamududu: I co-chair the Drafting Committee of the International Parliamentarians’ Conference on the Implementation of the International Conference on Population and Development (ICPD) Programme of Action. There are only two of us in this committee in the whole world, and we were in New York to lobby world leaders to implement the ICPD beyond 2014. 

Sir, the ICPD is, actually, the development compact for Africa. In there are the right things for us to do, such as investing in young people. All children must be in school to learn skills. We also have to invest in sexual and reproductive health. In all our clinics, there must be sexual and reproductive health services so that people can choose when to have children. I was happy when I went to my village and was told by one young man that he had not had sexual intimacy with his wife for a long time. When I asked why, he said that there were no reproductive health services at the clinic. I told him that he was a real man because he understood. He did not want to have an unplanned child. We must talk openly about these things, and I am happy that our Government and other governments have voted for the extension of the ICPD. That was the right thing to do.

Sir, with those few words, I thank you.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Thank you, Mr Chairperson. 

Sir, I must acknowledge Hon. Hamududu’s debate. The ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health was previously called the ‘Ministry of Community Development and Social Services’, but ‘Mother and Child Health’ has now been added to the nomenclature. However, the ministry ranks very lowly on the Cabinet structure, yet it is one of the most important, especially to us representing rural constituencies, because it is supposed to take care of the elderly, and orphaned and vulnerable children. That is why the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government initiated the Social Cash Transfer Scheme (SCTS).

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: The programme was piloted in …

Mr Mwale: Kalomo.

Mr Muchima: … the Eastern and Southern provinces. 

Mr Muntanga indicated dissent.

Mr Muchima: I am telling you the truth, Hon. Muntanga.

Mr Mwale: It was Kalomo. I was the Minister then.

Mr Muchima: In the Southern Province, it started in Kalomo and, then, moved to Kazungula. We saw that it was a very good programme that needed to be rolled out to other parts of the country. We had that intention because, although the Government started it with very little money and was failing to allocate more money to support it, the programme is very acceptable and had the support of donors, who funded it. I am happy that our colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF), when they came into power, also adopted it, although they politicised it, which is wrong. This programme is supposed to be taken as a poverty reduction tool. So, what we should have been hearing today are words like, “Since we took over, we have now covered 100 per cent of all the deserving people”. By now, the Ministry of Finance should have been convinced to fund the programme throughout the country to help the people in the villages without attaching political considerations in doing so. 

Sir, what I see saddens me. In the Ministry of Gender and Child Development, where my sister is, when some balls are bought using tax payers’ money, there is a special list of favoured people to whom they should be distributed. That is wrong. Community development should target poor people irrespective of whether they are represented by an Opposition Member of Parliament or one from the Ruling Party. We should aim at getting our poor people out of abject poverty. Those people did not choose to be poor. It is like children, who do not choose the families in which to be born.  

Sir, the Mother and Child Health portfolio fitted very well in the Ministry of Health because the Ministry Community Development and Social Welfare had its own challenges over which it had not acquitted itself well with the people. We have resettlement schemes or farming blocks for the disabled and other programmes that we have failed to adequately use to address the problems of the disabled. These are the people for whom we should care. In developed nations, they do not farm like us. For us, you can be born today and, when old enough, they will show you a bush, give you an axe and ask you to cultivate it and feed yourself. In developed countries, when you are born, you are sent to school at the Government expense through social protection schemes like insurance policies that can even take care of people’s health. However, here, you increase the fees at hospitals without knowing where your citizens will get the money to pay for health care. You do not care for your people. When my sister, Hon. Sarah Sayifwanda, was Minister of Gender and Child Development, when the ministry bought hammer mills, every hon. Member of Parliament here received two …

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: … without any …

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: When my brother, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, was Minister of Education, he built schools in all the constituencies.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: In this Government, that is not the case. When this father of mine here, Hon. Chipungu, was Minister of Youth and Sports, …

Mr Mwale: Yes!

Mr Muchima: ... we distributed balls and other sports equipment to everyone.

Mr Mwale: Yes!

Mr Antonio: What kind of balls?

Mr Muchima: In the three years of the PF’s rule, and I have been here as a witness, nothing at all has been done. What I am witnessing are intra-party fights. That is not development. The money we are allocating in this Budget is for every Zambian, not for the PF only. You must be ashamed of yourselves.

Mr Mwale: Look at them.

Mr Muchima: This primary health care we are talking about should be for every Zambian, not for PF cadres and ward officials.

Mr Ndalamei: Bayenda, aba.

Mr Mwale: Baoneni mu manso.

Mr Muchima: Do not politicise the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and the SCTS.

Interruptions
Mr Muchima: You have politicised everything. Where is the CDF …

Mr Chipungu: For Rufunsa.

Mr Muchima: … for Rufunsa? Everything is wrongly done. You should have been doing things better than the MMD did, but what we have seen is that you are doing worse, apart from a few ministries that have I have respect for, like the ministries of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, and Health, which I have seen to be transparent.

Hon. MMD Members: Yes!

Mr Muchima: Maybe, it is because my brothers and friends, whom I respect, are nominated. They are doing a good and commendable job. As for the others, ah!

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: Kuya bebele!

Laughter

Mr Ndalamei: Kuya bebele!

Mr Muchima: I am happy to hear that the hon. Minister wants to decentralise. However, you do that, the politicised District Commissioners (DCs) of yours should be PF DCs, not district DCs.

Mr Mbewe: Ah!

Mr Muchima: Those PF DCs of yours …

Mr Mbewe: Sure!

Mr Muchima: Real DCs should discharge their duties according to their Government-approved terms of reference because they are civil servants. We need a prudent Government that will look after every citizen.

Mr Mbewe: So, aluyenda.

Mr Muchima: Not what we are seeing today. It is annoying.

Mr Ndalamei: Bayenda kale.

Mr Muchima: Anyway, Zambians are judging what they are seeing.

Mr Ndalamei: Former Government.

Mr Mbewe: Former Government for sure.

Mr Muchima: Buy mosquito nets for every Zambian in the rural areas. Today, as I speak, clinics have no medicines. We built clinics using the CDF when we were in power, as the MMD. However, to date, some of them have not yet been opened because there is no medicine there. The hon. Deputy Minister, Dr Chilufya, who used to be a strong member of the MMD and was loaned to you, has toured the whole country. He is doing a commendable job.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: Yes, we loaned him to you and he is doing a commendable job. I am very happy about that. He rang me from Ikeleng’i. I have heard about his being in Kalomo and Shang’ombo in the few days that he has been in office. He has toured the whole country and is well informed, to tell you the truth. That is the kind of leadership we want.

Mr Mwale: Osati ya ndani?

Mr Muchima: Not iyi ya ma dark corner and giving hammer mills only to PF cadres when they were bought using our money.

Mr Mbewe: Balekeni bayende, mwe.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Mbewe: Talema, muyende.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: The handicapped people need you. The United National Independence Party (UNIP) and MMD Governments put up a lot of infrastructure, …

Mr Ndalamei: Baza mimanga nama hammer mills.

Mr Muchima: … but the farms in Luapula and … where Hon. Davies Mwila comes from, our colleagues there are very hard working. What has the ministry done for them? It has decided to throw them on the streets, yet she wants us to give her more money. Does she have a human heart? This money is supposed to be going to those people. Imagine those people were your relatives, what would you do? Would you just throw them away? Let us care for the handicapped.

Mr Mbewe: Aba timanga!

Mr Muchima: I have a human heart.

Laughter

Mr Ndalamei: What about those? What sort of hearts do they have?

Mr Muchima: They should not be stone-hearted. Those who have stone hearts should remove them.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: God is for all of us. When you die, it does not matter whether you were a PF, MMD or United Party for National Development (UPND) member. You are just a body, cargo in a coffin, like anybody else. Let us be sympathetic and use this ministry accordingly. We should aim to leave a legacy. I enjoyed superintending over this ministry with Hon. Namugala. To date, I am still cherished there. It was a ministry that everyone looked up to.

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: Why not?

Interruptions

Mr Muchima: This is the ministry that is supposed to be with the people and to address their needs. However, currently, we are not feeling its impact. There is nothing happening at the grassroots. How can one wear a shirt and a tie without anything below? Let us dress from the feet upwards to the head. The Government’s presence should be felt in every corner of this country, which has not been the case in the last three years. The PF said everything would be done in ninety days but, today, it is reneging on that promise. It should be practical and address itself to issues that it promises to tackle.

Mr Mbewe: It is too late now.

Mr Muchima: You must talk and act. You were saying that President Sata was busy working at State House, but I reminded you not tell lies to God. He went for medicals and did not come back.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbewe: A point of jealousy.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for affording me this opportunity to raise a point of order. 

Sir, the hon. Elder Brother of mine on the Floor has been debating in a very unusual fashion. First of all, he has insinuated that he is the only one with a human heart. Now, he has gone on to accuse people and use unParliamentary words like ‘lies’. Is he in order to continue with his cross-country debate?

I need your serious ruling.

The Chairperson: My serious ruling is that the hon. Member debating, sometimes, goes off track.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Please, Hon. Muchima, take this point of order into account as you debate.

You may continue.

Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, I am much obliged.

Sir, I was saying that health care is critical to all of us. Therefore, let us be true to our word. When I talk about the various places I am mentioning, I want to speak on behalf of some of you, hon. Members of Parliament, who cannot speak for yourselves. The people in your constituencies are suffering and you are not benefiting. You are just forced to support things. I am here to tell you the truth. Do not follow people like KK (Dr Kenneth Kaunda). His constituency is the whole country while you, from Kaputa, …

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, you are diverting again. Please, keep to the subject.

Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, I am sorry. 

Sir, this ministry is very critical. So, let us take Mother and Child Health back to the Ministry of Health. It performed better under the Ministry of Health, even when we were young. Some of us, who were born before Independence, saw the benefits of Government programmes in the villages. That is what we want to see happen and that is why I was praising Dr Chilufya. He is a professional.  

Sir, my colleague talked about nutrition. Today, we should be giving statistics on nutrition. How many people are benefiting from your programmes in this regard? What has been done? We need the statistics to see what benefits each district in the country is getting out of this Government. How many clinics has the Government opened? I am not talking about the programmes that we are just being promised, the ‘Don’t Kubeba’ ones. We want the hon. Minister to account for everything so that, when she stands here, she can challenge us and tell us what she is doing in Ikeleng’i, Jimbe and some places in Luapula Constituency. Then, we shall agree that this is our Government and we are progressing, unlike now, when everything is still hidden. I do not know what the ministry is doing. It is keeping us guessing. 

Sir, this is a very important ministry and the hon. Minister of Finance, my dear brother, as he guides us in fiscal discipline, should have sympathy for it. 

I support this ministry and we all need to do so. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I stand to support the Vote for the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. In doing so, I stand by what the hon. Member for Bweengwa has said. There is a need to focus on the available information and use it for the development of the country.

Mr Chairperson, I want to correct the wrong impression that there is political good will towards the Social Cash Transfer Scheme (SCTS) in the PF. I contend that there is not enough of it. The SCTS started in Kalomo as a pilot project of the Germany Technical Co-operation in Zambia (GTZ). It was piloted for two years and, then, extended to Kazungula and, later, Katete and Monze districts. The hon. Minister who launched it in Kalomo was Ms Marina Nsingo and I have a vivid picture of what happened there. However, from 2003, there has been very little contribution from the Government. As we speak, the biggest contributors to the programme are still the donors. When Dr Kaingu was hon. Minister, I used to say that we needed to increase the Government’s contribution. I do not take any pride in increasing the number of beneficiary districts from ten to fifty when many people in several districts are still suffering. Hon. Hamududu has illustrated that it is possible, with only 3 per cent of the Budget, to fully support the SCTS financially.

Mr Chairperson, we took hon. Members of Parliament on a study tour of Kalomo to see the benefits of the SCTS, and those who went will agree that the really poor people benefited. Those who could have died prematurely due to poverty were saved. The programme has continued and we have expanded it. However, it is still not enough. We need to extend it to all the other parts of the country. There is no way that Kalomo and a few other districts can be happy when the rest of the country has not been covered. 

Sir, there is a danger when only a few districts are supported in that programmes are politicised and people begin to think that they and their district are being favoured. I expected the Patriotic Front (PF), which has been talking about being pro-poor, to expand the programme. We have the figures, but we do not want to bore you with them. Suffice it for me to promise that we will implement the programme properly because we know how to do it. 

Sir, there are various ministries that are involved in the kind of support offered under the SCTS, such as the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. What do they do to support the poor people? I think, that goes to show that we are not serious when we talk about pro-poor budgets, but do contrary things. We have seen a jump in budgetary allocations to some ministries, but not to these that support poor people and need more support. There is now the challenge to source K15 million. I challenge the proposer, Hon. Hamududu, not to just talk about it, but leave now and go to a legal counsel to prepare an amendment so that it is proposed to hon. Members. Mere talk does not help. I would like to see a proposed amendment to increase the funding for the SCTS.  Sometimes, we do not modify the amounts allocated because we think that we cannot alter what the hon. Minister has allocated. The Ministry of Finance knows better what component of the Budget comes from our co-operating partners and what we are able to raise on our own, as a country. There used to be an hon. Minister of Finance, Mr Magande, who never believed in that programme because he thought that it was meant to spoon-feed poor people, and I did not like that. I want to see an hon. Minister of Finance who will agree to increase the amount. In developed countries, they do not just target a small group of poor people to help, but all the people who need help. In Britain, young people do not even want to work because they are given money for not being unemployed. As a result, the British Government works very hard to create jobs for them. There are many people from different nationalities working in the hotels and various factories. What are we doing to support our people in Zambia? 

Sir, these days, I hesitate to debate because we do not have the power to change anything that we disagree with in the Budget. If we do that, the Executive says that we will disturb the Budget. Therefore, what is the use of debating the Budget when we cannot change it? We can simply approve it. That is why we end up politicking and showing you that your policy direction is not correct. Only a meaningful change in the amounts allocated in the Budget can facilitate the effective implementation of a programme to help the people. 

Mr Chairperson, we keep talking about allocating, at least, 10 per cent of the whole Budget to the agricultural sector, but that has not been done. Only 5 per cent of the Budget has been allocated to agriculture. The only target amount we have tried to meet is in the education sector. The amount allocated to health has gone down and the health of our people will deteriorate due to the Government’s failure to meet the funding target for the Ministry of Health. 

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister mentioned nutrition in his speech. Have we employed the students who are trained in nutrition? Even the course in nutrition that is offered at the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) is not properly supported and the National Food and Nutrition Commission (NFNC) is hardly surviving because it depends on funding from our co-operating partners. What is the Zambian Government doing to help the commission financially? 

Mr Chairperson, there were days when the NFNC was important. It educated people about nutrition, for instance, the amount of calories a person required every day. However, that is not being done anymore. All we see are children being fed in schools with food that I am struggling to find an appropriate word to describe. I wonder whether the commission is aware that some of the food that is given to the children in schools might not be right for them. That is a nutritional fact. 

Sir, this ministry is important. So, let us go back to training professionals and employing them in the ministry. Things started going bad from the colleges. That is where we first lost it. Everything is done by guess work. The hon. Minister has a duty to bring these things forward. I pity her because she runs the ministry to which the disabled people go for help. I have met them at her office asking for help, and that is in addition to the School Feeding Programme (SFP), the Bursaries programme and assistance to widows and orphans. So, the ministry is over-burdened. However, the profile of the ministry remains low in the Cabinet. 

Sir, I have always argued …

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours. 

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was talking about the need to recognise the people being trained as nutritionists in our colleges so that they can serve in the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health because malnutrition, which we thought we had defeated after Independence, has come back to haunt us. Cases of children with stunted growth are back. I see children who are not growing well in this country. 

Mr Chairperson, if the PF does not back up its pro-poor rhetoric with meaningful budgetary support to poverty alleviation programmes, its rhetoric, I am afraid, will be meaningless. It would be a continuation of the Don’t Kubeba game that the PF has been playing. In Tonga, it is said that, “Kakubota kozwa kutegwa okoya konse kubote.” 

The Deputy Chairperson: Meaning? 

Mr Muntanga: It means that a person should do good where he is so that things will also be well for him wherever he will go.

Hon. UPND Members: Mmh!

Mr Muntanga: If you do not do good now, especially in supporting the poor people, when you are no longer in office, the people will come back to haunt you for not having done the job you were meant to do for them and for not delivering what you promised them. As a party, if you deliver on your pro-poor policies, you will do well. 

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I support the Budget.

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to debate the Budget for the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. I wish to adopt my brother, Hon. Muchima’s debate as my own and hope to squeeze all I have to say in five minutes. 

Sir, I keep saying that the poverty levels in rural areas are very high and the only way we can mitigate this problem is by increasing the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) amount. If it were up to me, I would cancel some of the programmes in the ministry and re-align the resources to the CDF.

Sir, Hon. Muchima talked about hammer mills and other equipment that is procured by the ministry. In my opinion, it would be better if this equipment was distributed through the hon. Members of Parliament.

Sir, it is true that communities will always have poor people, but it is equally true that no one can develop people because people will always develop themselves. In this country, however, we think that we will solve the problem of poverty by giving people handouts.  That is wrong. Can there ever be enough handouts for poor people, especially in a country where the majority are unemployed? Unfortunately, the handouts are benefitting even able-bodied people, who sit around and wait for the handouts because they do not have anything else to do. I strongly believe that, through a Member of Parliament, communities will get better help. We should not condemn hon. Members of Parliament or the CDF because every programme has a failure rate. What should be emphasised is the success rate of the programme. I know very well that, if we empowered hon. Members of Parliament with the resources from this ministry, they would do very well. William Voegeli, an American, said that we can never have enough for the poor people. In fact, a Government that gives too many handouts is actually trying to manipulate the people for political reasons. Let me now talk about the Social Cash Transfer Scheme (SCTS), which Hon. Muntanga debated very well.

Mr Chairperson, when the SCTS started, the ministry’s Community Welfare Assistants were responsible for identifying the people who qualified for assistance. Now, the programme is managed by District Commissioners (DCs) and it is they who identify beneficiaries. This has politicised the programme.

Sir, the last time I debated, I proposed that the SCTS be conditional. You cannot just keep dishing out money. Indeed, I implemented this programme when I was in charge of the ministry, but I strongly believe that we should borrow the Latin American model in which the SCTS is conditional and connected to children. Beneficiaries are encouraged, for example, to take children either to school or Under-Five clinics and so on.  To me, this is much better than giving away money unconditionally.

Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I support this Budget and ask the Government to make the SCTS conditional.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Chairperson, to start with, I would like to thank all the hon. Members of Parliament, particularly, Hon. Hamududu, Hon. Muchima, Hon. Muntanga and Hon. Dr Kaingu, for their contribution in support of my ministry’s budget.

Sir, I would like to comment on a few issues. Firstly, I thank Hon. Hamududu for the issues that he raised concerning the SCTS and reproductive health. Your comments will help my ministry to do more. It is only when we work together that we will be able to deal with most of these issues. Secondly, with regards to Hon. Muchima’s contribution, I would like to say that the PF Government is committed to helping the vulnerable. The Government contributes more to the SCTS than any other stakeholder. In this year’s Budget, the Government has contributed K150 million for the programme while our co-operating partners have only put in K30 million. The Government is, therefore, the one driving this project. We know that we can only alleviate poverty in communities when we help them. So, we want to help using programmes like the SCTS and Food Security Pack (FSP). When the PF came into office, the first Act that this Parliament passed was the Disability Act of 2012. Even the non-governmental organisations (NGOs) have recognised our efforts as can be seen from the awards we are being given. On 3rd December, 2014, we will be honoured with the Disability Award, which will be named after the late President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. This award is in recognition of the efforts made by this Government, the scaling up of the SCTS and all the programmes being implemented by my ministry.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Chairperson, we have taken note of all the issues that have been raised by the hon. Members, and we will consider them as we execute our duties.

I thank you, Sir.

VOTE 45/01 – (Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health – Headquarters – (K44,812,710).

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5001, Activity 048 – Insurance – K300,000, which is the same as last year’s allocation. This is rare, but very good and unprecedented. That said, what key asserts will be insured under this activity? Further, I seek clarification on Programme 5002, Activity 007 – Labour Day Celebrations – K100,000. Where did the money for the 2014 Labour Day Celebrations come from? I ask this because there was no allocation to the activity in the 2014 Budget.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mrs Mphande): Mr Chairperson, Programme 5001, Activity 048 – Insurance – K300,000, is meant for insurance of motor vehicles and office buildings. The allocation is adequate for 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: What about the clarification on Programme 5002, Activity 007?

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Ms Kazunga): Mr Chairperson, Programme 5002, Activity 007 – Labour Day Celebrations – K100,000 is meant for the participation in Labour Day Celebrations and awarding of prizes to deserving officers at the headquarters.

The Deputy Chairperson: The question from the hon. Member stemmed from the fact that there was no allocation in the 2014 Budget for this activity. So, how has it been funded hitherto?

Ms Kazunga: Sir, the activity was funded under Administration.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 45/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 45/02 – (Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health – Department of Social Welfare – K205,879,812).

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5005 – Grants to Institutions – Operational – K14,320,000. I note that all the allocations for the activities under this programme have either remained static or have been increased, except for Activity 377 – Mansa Place of Safety – K100,000. Why is this the only activity whose allocation in the 2015 Budget has been reduced from K150,000 to K100, 000?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 5005 – Grants to Institutions – Operational – K14,320,000, the allocations to the other activities have remained static because these are operational costs and there are no activities attached to these institutions.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 45/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 45/03 (Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health – Community Development Department – K80,222,933).

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5096, Activity 010 – Micro Credit to Women Clubs – K8,000,000. Why has this amount been reduced by K2,000,000 from the 2014 allocation?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5096, Activity 010 – Micro Credit to Women Clubs – K8,000,000 is meant to provide micro credit to support income generating activities among women. The reduction is due to the fact that there were a number of training programmes undertaken in 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, I am not satisfied with the hon. Minister’s answer. My question was: Why has the amount been reduced from K10,000,000 to K8,000,000?

The Deputy Chairperson: That question has been answered.

Vote 45/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 45/05 (Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health – Planning and Information Department – K15,657,826).

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5011, Activity 029 – Rehabilitation of School/College Infrastructure – K900,000; Activity 241 – Construction of Office Buildings – K3,004,191; and Activity 299 – Rehabilitation of District Offices – K679,000. There was no allocation for these activities in the 2014 Budget, but there are allocations in next year’s Budget. Which schools or colleges will benefit from these funds? Additionally, will the construction of office buildings include the newly-created districts like Zimba? Finally, which districts will benefit from the rehabilitation of district offices?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 5011, Activity 299 – Rehabilitation of District Offices – K679,000, is a new activity under the Human Resource and Administration Unit, Department of Planning and Information. The funds are required for the rehabilitation of the District Community Health Facilities. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5178, Information Dissemination (Health System) – Nil. All the activities under this programme have not been funded in 2015. Have the activities become irrelevant or has the money been hidden somewhere else?

Mrs Kabanshi: Mr Chairperson, I think that the activities were not funded in 2014, but will be funded in 2015. The funds are meant for awareness campaigns on social protection-related issues.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister, if you look at Programme 5178, all the activities under it have no allocations indicated for 2015. Has the money been provided under any other Head? If there is, please, answer the question.

Ms Kazunga: Mr Chairperson, the activities have been budgeted for under Programme 5013, Activity 037 – Production and Distribution of IEC Materials – K40,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda: Mr Chairperson, I asked for clarification on three activities under Programme 5011, namely, Activity 029, Rehabilitation of School/College Infrastructure – K900,000, Activity 241, Construction of Office Buildings – K3,004,191 and Activity 299, Rehabilitation of District Offices – K679,000, but the hon. Minister only answered the question on Activity 299. May I have clarification on the other activities?

Mrs Mphande: Mr Chairperson, the newly-created districts will also benefit.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions 

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I think, the hon. Ministers there are totally misdirecting us. I seek clarification on Programme 5178, Information Dissemination (Health Systems) – Nil, all the activities under that programme seem to have been considered irrelevant because, even on page 596, there are no similar activities reflected, as the hon. Deputy Minister has claimed. Could she clarify. Are the activities catered for or not?

Ms Kazunga: Mr Chairperson, Programme 5178, Activity 001, Development of Radio Programmes and TV Series – Nil has been put under Programme 5176 – Information Dissemination (Social Development) – K46,489 under the Communication and Education Unit.  Activity 005, Orientation of Public and Private Institutions on BCC Tool Kits has been budgeted for under Programme, 5013, Activity 001 – Information Dissemination – K30,500, also under the Communication and Education Unit. 

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 45/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 45/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 46 – (Ministry of Health – K2,758,080,222).

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to support my ministry’s 2015 budget.

Sir, allow me first to join others in recalling, with sadness and condolences, the absence of my mentor in health development, in general, and primary health care, in particular, His Excellency the late President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. His guidance, over the many years prior to 2011 and for three years after will continue to underlie the direction that we will follow in the coming years. May his soul rest in eternal peace.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Health remains committed to the implementation of our Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) and the National Health Strategic Plan (NHSP), whose theme is, “Towards Attainment of Health-Related Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) and Other National Health Priorities in a Clean, Caring and Competent Environment”.

Sir, in my submission, I will begin by reiterating the conceptual frameworks for the re-alignment of portfolios under the ministries of Health, and Community Development, Mother and Child Health. I will, then, follow that with a brief analytical description of the budgetary envelope in its global and national contexts. Thereafter, I will present the system and programme performance of my ministry in both the aspect of strengthening the health system and that of delivering implementing programmes. Finally, I will propose the priority areas for action in 2015.

Re-alignment of Ministries

Mr Chairperson, the innovative creation of the Department of Mother and Child Health in the then Ministry of Community Development and Social Services was premised on the realisation that community health literacy and participation in health care were essential for effective service delivery and a “sine qua non” for the continuum of health care provision from the primary through secondary to tertiary medical care. Since secondary and tertiary care had historically been the focus of service delivery, there was a need to raise the quality of first-level care and its link with the community. In practical terms, that meant that the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health would take care of public health and primary medical care while the Ministry of Health would co-ordinate the formulation of national health policies, manage common services, specifically, the pharmaceutical supply and medical education, and the development and administration of secondary and tertiary medical care. Budgetary resources will be allocated accordingly.

Budget Analysis and Trends

Mr Chairperson, I am grateful to the hon. Minister of Finance for increasing, in nominal terms, the allocation to the health sector from K4.2 billion in 2014 to K4.4 billion in 2015, which translates into 9.6 per cent of the total 2015 discretionary Budget. The total allocation to my ministry increased by 4.2 per cent from K2.65 billion in 2014 to K2.76 billion in 2015. Out of this allocation, K1.086 billion is meant to cover personal emoluments, with a net recruitment of various personnel receiving K23.6 million. The balance of K1.67 billion is the allocation towards the implementation of various programmes, such as training of health workers, infrastructure development, procurement of drugs and medical supplies, and provision of health services, among others. In global terms, we must admit that our target of 15 per cent of the National Budget being devoted to the health sector, as prescribed by the Abuja Declaration, is yet to be attained, but we are on the way there. For comparison with other countries, reference might be made to Lesotho, which has reached 14.6 per cent, and Sierra Leone, which remains at 7 per cent.

Performance and Challenges in 2014

Sir, as stated in my introduction, there has been a re-alignment of functions in the health sector. This has brought about some challenges as discussed below. 

Human Resources for Health

Mr Chairperson, we have, from time to time, said that the human resource situation in the health sector needs urgent redress. As a tool for addressing the human resource gaps at all levels and the basis for all human resource activities, the Ministry of Health has the Human Resource for Health Strategic Plan that it is implementing. Further, in 2014, to end the human resources crisis in the sector, the Ministry of Health commenced the implementation of the National Training Operational Plan (NTOP), which runs from 2013 to 2016. The plan involves the scaling up of efforts to train additional medical staff to bridge the staffing gap. Furthermore, in an effort to enhance the quality and efficiency of training programmes in training institutions, a review of the various curricula has been undertaken, for example, Registered Nursing (RN), (Enrolled Nursing (EN) and direct entry midwifery. The aim is to scale up …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The quorum has collapsed.

Business was suspended from 1144 hours until 1147 hours.

The Deputy Chairperson: Now that the quorum has been restored, the hon. Minister of Health can continue. I will keep a close look on the quorum situation.

Dr Kasonde: Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Sir, since I have been interrupted, I will make most of the statement available. For now, I will proceed to priority focus areas for 2015.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to present a summary of how we intend to improve on the achievements we made and mitigate the challenges we faced in 2014.

Scaling up High-Impact Health Interventions 

Sir, in line with the guidance of our late President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, the ministry will pay particular attention to improving service delivery outcomes by reducing maternal mortality and eliminating malaria, mother-to-child transmission of the Human Immuno-deficiency Virus (HIV) and stock outs of essential medicines and supplies. 

Mr Chairperson, in 2015, the ministry intends to scale up health interventions that will bring desired impacts on health outcomes. For purposes of scaling up malaria control programmes, the ministry has set aside K3.8 million, which shows a significant increase on the 2014 allocation of K515,000. The programmes to eliminate malaria will be implemented in close collaboration with the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health.

Recruitment and Strengthening of Human Resources Management

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has been allocated K23.5 million for the recruitment of various health personnel. The ministry intends to use the funds to fill the gaps in the areas in need. 

Sir, let me draw the attention of hon. Members to a feature of the allocation to personnel that they will find in the Yellow Book, and that is the fact that there is a consistent reduction in the amounts when compared with 2014 figures. The explanation is that the provision for 2015 is based only on the live payroll, thereby resulting in a negative variance when compared with the 2014 Budget. The positions to be funded and filled in 2015 have been catered for under the net recruitment line. On the other hand, there are some slight upward adjustments in some salaries across Divisions due to the rectification of salary scales and related allowances following the implementation of the Job Evaluation and Regarding Exercise.

Sir, in response to the human resource situation in Zambia, the Ministry of Health will scale up efforts to train additional staff. At the hospital level, the number of medical doctors, especially specialists, is still inadequate, with most general hospitals lacking the full complement of specialists. In this regard, the ministry will continue to support the training of more specialised medical officers in order to improve the quality of specialised health services within Zambia as opposed to evacuating patients abroad.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry will, in 2015, continue to prioritise performance management in all facilities to ensure that all health workers serve patients with adequate skills and expertise by implementing the Performance Management Package as a method of appraisal. In addition, the ministry intends to process all outstanding human resources cases, such as appointments, confirmations and promotions. The ministry will also use the K20 million allocated to staff arrears to settle staff-related debts. The retention and redistribution of health workers to disadvantaged districts will also be prioritised. 

Strengthening Drug Management and Logistics 

Mr Chairperson, the drug Budget line has been allocated K745 million in 2015. This will go a long way in strengthening the drug supply management and logistics systems at all levels, especially in the area of commodity planning. In order to alleviate stock outs of essential medicines and to facilitate last-mile delivery of essential medicines to the end-user, the ministry plans to increase the hubs to other regional centres, which will take the total number of hubs to six. This is in an attempt to shorten the time it takes for medicines to reach our people and to extend the model of decentralising medical stores throughout the country.

Health Care Financing

Sir, in 2015, our ministry will focus on the development of the Health Financing Strategy (HFS), strengthening of resource allocation criteria and implementation of the National Social Health Insurance (SHI) scheme. The strategy will aim at outlining the most efficient and sustainable modalities of resource mobilisation, pooling and purchasing of services in the health sector. As an input into the HFS, and in light of the modernisation of selected hospitals, my ministry will update and cost the basic health care package for all levels. 

Sir, as emphasised in the current National Health Strategic Plan (NHSP), my ministry will continue to strengthen resource allocation criteria by reviewing and, when necessary, updating them. The ministry will also focus on building on efficiency, evidence-based decision-making, high-impact interventions and performance-based financing in order to improve the usage of health resources. Performance-based mechanisms will focus on rewarding facilities on performance and quality of service, emphasising output assessment rather than input measurement.

National Social Insurance Scheme

Sir, in recognition of the need to move toward universal health coverage, achieve better health outcomes and develop a sound and sustainable health care financing mechanism, the need and rationale to establish a pro-poor National Social Health Insurance (SHI) scheme has been included in the National Health Policy and the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP). The priority areas for action in 2015 will include the raising of public awareness on the operations of the proposed scheme, development and implementation of a communication strategy, development of systems, linkages with existing social protection programmes and an option to engage the informal sector.

Infrastructure Development

Mr Chairperson, in 2015, the Ministry of Health has been allocated K264 million for infrastructure development. In relation to this, the ministry’s health infrastructure development programmes will focus on the following:

(a)    continued construction of district hospitals, with emphasis on districts that are currently not served by first level-referral facilities;

(b)    extension and rehabilitation of existing health facilities;

(c)    upgrading of tertiary-level institutions to provide specialised tertiary and third level health care;

(d)    continued construction of 650 health posts countrywide;

(e)    continued rehabilitation and construction of health training institutions; and

(f)    construction of the Tropical Diseases Research Centre.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, good health, in its entirety, is the product of several factors. Therefore, I wish to acknowledge the contributions of leading strategic partners in the fight for health. Firstly, I recognise the churches which, today, provide more than 30 per cent of public health services. The churches have also been a reliable and sustainable resource to which the Government is contributing. Secondly, the international co-operating partners continue to support our efforts and make them more effective. Therefore, allow me to convey our Government’s appreciation for the tremendous and sustained support that the ministry has continued to receive towards the implementation of our NHSP. With the support from our partners, we have scored many successes amidst a myriad of challenges. Thirdly, the private sector has increasingly invested in medical care. The Government provides the necessary registration and supervision to maintain standards. However, the fourth and most important group is the community. It is clear that, without the commitment, co-operation and participation of the community, the impact of health care interventions would be poor. It is a welcome fact that Zambians have collaborated and initiated activities in several areas, including immunisation, screening and direct voluntary support to the construction of health centres. This has vindicated the emphasis placed on community participation, which is reflected in the re-alignment of portfolios in the ministries of Health, and Community Development, Mother and Child Health. So, in faithfulness to the spirit of partnership, I invite all Zambians, including non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs), political parties, the church, co-operating partners and other stakeholders to continue contributing to the search for appropriate solutions to our health challenges. 

Sir, I now seek the support of hon. Members for the proposed budget of the Ministry of Health for the period 1st January to 31st December, 2015.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank the hon. Minister for that statement. Obviously, it is a mere statement of intent. Nonetheless, I think that it is a good step because one must know where they are going in order to get there. 

Mr Chairperson, I will be very brief and confine myself to one of the issues that the hon. Minister mentioned as the ministry’s focus areas in 2015, namely, resource allocation. 

Sir, a number of district hospitals have been built while some structures that had, for example, eighty beds, have now been expanded and have bed capacities of, say, 120, yet they are still allocated resources on the basis of their initial establishments. How, then, can they operate in a clean and caring environment? That is a challenge, and it is compounded by the fact that health services are free. Health institutions used to complement the grants they got from the Government with the money they got from charging user fees. So, the hon. Minister should seriously look at that. The resources allocated to some of the institutions do not match the work load in terms of in-patient care. Additionally, I note that the disbursement of funds has become a problem. Some activities that have to be undertaken within a specific time frame are delayed. So, their execution becomes a reaction to the pressure to realise what is in the annual work plans.

Mr Chairperson, the second point that I would like to make is on human resource. I emphasise that you do not amputate your child’s leg because they have tripped over a pot of relish. Surely, with inadequate human resources in the health sector, what would the Government lose by unconditionally reinstating the nurses who were fired for voicing out their grievances on the 100 per cent salary increment that they were promised?

Interruptions 

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Yes, they made a mistake, but how can you continue to punish your own people by denying them the services that they require so much? It is not only a question of legality, but also of morality. How does one feel that meting out this kind of punishment on nurses was the right thing to do for the people who need medical services? It is a plea that I am making. I know that the hon. Minister has repeatedly said that we should not advocate for indiscipline. However, just like in the example I have given about a child who trips a pot of relish, our children do make mistakes, but we do not maim them to correct them. 

Mr Chairperson, as I come to my next point, I declare interest, as a shareholder in one of the upcoming private medical institutions. I wish the hon. Minister could, if he has not, consider partnering with some private medical institutions that meet the required standards to help speed up the meeting of medical human resource needs, such as the need for nurses, pharmacists, clinical officers and medical officers. I think, that would go a long way in resolving the problem rather than relying solely on Government institutions to train our health workers. It is done in other countries and, considering our increasing population and high poverty levels, it could help us to quickly meet our needs in the health sector.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue, in resource allocation, is that of outreach programmes. Yes, we acknowledge receipt of ambulances, which have gone a long way in helping but, for outreach programmes, we need utility vehicles throughout the country so that the health workers are able to take services where they are needed. In my view, this must be a priority of the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health or the Ministry of Health. I am not quite sure which is which due to the re-alignment of portfolios between the two ministries. We should not regress in the positive indicators that we have registered in the health sector.

Sir, with regard to the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs) and the Demographic Health Survey (DHS), the achievements are not a result of a one-year or two-year programme, but are obtained after concerted efforts over a period of time, say, five or six years. It is like a relay race in which one passes the baton to the next in the race. So, to attribute the reduction in, for example, child and maternal mortality rates, to the work of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government alone is to mislead the House. There have been contributions from various quarters over time and the baton was passed on to the current Government. I think, really, let us recognise the efforts that have been made in the past to lay the foundation for the current achievements. In fact, the credit should go to the constituency that we serve, and that is, the people of Zambia. They are in better health because we put our efforts together, as leaders, in a sequence, to better their lives. That should be recognised.

Mr Chairperson, lastly, I want to comment on the introduction of the National Social Health Insurance Scheme (SHIS). I think, that is a good move. I hope that the funds that have been allocated will be used to address the many challenges that will be faced in the preparations for the implementation of the scheme and during the implementation process. We will not be the first to implement this scheme. So, I think, we have had many cases to learn from in Africa and avoid falling into the same pitfalls as our colleagues. Notable among the challenges will be our ability to assure consistent funding for the scheme in the form of a contribution from the Government for clients in the Civil Service. We should not fall into the same trap of falling behind with Government contributions, as we have seen with the pension schemes. On paper, yes, some amounts of money will be disbursed to the fund holder but, in reality, the money might not be there. If we fall into that trap of inconsistent funding, the services will suffer. The institution/s that will be accredited to participate in or manage the programme will need a constant flow of funds and availability of human resources to provide quality services. That said, we cannot wait to see this scheme work because it is a journey that has to be embarked on in order to provide universal health coverage to our nation.

Lastly, Mr Chairperson, there is an issue dear to me that I discussed with the hon. Minister privately. I hope that he has taken that issue into account. As we embark on building district hospitals, let us take into account the fact that many patients trek long distances to access the health services. So, one of the priorities must be the construction of relatives’ shelters. The model that we have is the European one, in which health facilities do not have relatives’ shelters, as is the case with even the University Teaching Hospital and many other hospitals. Unfortunately, unlike the people in countries whose economies are doing well, where there are boarding houses, our people either do not have access to such facilities or cannot afford them. Surely, where can one get a boarding house in Lundazi, Chasefu or …

Mr Mwale: Where?

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: … many other places. 

Mr Chairperson, we need to assist our people as they care for their loved ones so that they are in a hygienic environment. This is a plea I will make to the hon. Minister repeatedly in the hope that, this time around, in his plan to build new district hospitals, …

Mr Mwale: In Chasefu.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: … the shelters will be incorporated.

Mr Chairperson, overall, I support the Ministry of Health Budget.

I thank you.

Mr Mwale: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, thank you.

Sir, in starting my contribution to the debate on the Vote on the Ministry of Health, I wish to acknowledge the sitting arrangement because it is relevant to the Budget. I see the hon. Ministers of Finance; Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education; Health; and Community Development, Mother and Child Health, in that order, and that is the development compact. More money must go to these ministries if we are to deal with the many problems that the nation is currently facing. If we added agriculture to these ministries, they would be enough to steer the country’s development agenda. You know, this country can run on about twelve ministries. While on this point, allow me to say that I think that the re-alignment of portfolios between the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, and the Ministry of Health, has led to a duplication of functions and increased administrative cost overheads. There was no need for us to do that. The money being wasted on reduplicated functions could have been saved for service delivery at the grassroots, where there is a greater need for services. So, the re-alignment was not a smart move. In an ideal situation, the Mother and Child Health component would have remained in the Ministry of Health. That is why we are failing to lower the huge wage bill. We have a top-heavy Government. Just here, if we did away with one component, one hon. Minister would become irrelevant and that would be a saving. What about the ministry headquarters? As we talk about health care financing, we must start right at the top. This country can run with fifteen ministries and that has an implication in terms of financing because you would have cut administrative overheads. Too much money is being used at the top because we have too many heads. I do not say this because of having anything against the current leadership, but out of the conviction that, going forward, the Mother and Child Health portfolio needs to be revert back to the Ministry of Health as a department or directorate under which the programmes will be implemented.

Sir, today, the hon. Minister is bemoaning the lack of health care financing and there are many ways we can address that problem. The ministry has a unit, which is a very good example, that is piloting the result based-financing model, and the indications from that project are very good. That is why we must tilt our budget towards results-based financing. We want to see the impact of our funding. The variables must begin to change for the better in proportion to the resources that are being injected. We need more systems than ministries. The pilot project in the Ministry of Health is very important and can be rolled out to all ministries. What we want is the result-focused budgeting process that you have mentioned. The Ministry of Finance has also proposed a shift towards output-based budgeting. That must be done everywhere.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue, which is the reason for my liking the sitting arrangement I referred to earlier, is that the country has suffered a serious brain drain of health personnel, who were trained at a huge cost. Most of the personnel were bonded after being awarded bursaries for their studies, but they have gone to Canada, Australia, the United States of America (USA) and our neighbouring countries without fulfilling the conditions under which they got the bursaries. So, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education must help the nation recoup some of the money by following up on all those who were sponsored by the State, but later opted to work in other countries. I am a graduate and the ministry should recover the money the State spent on educating me. I am ready to pay and honour the agreements I signed with the Bursaries Committee. All the nurses and doctors trooping out of the country for greener pastures also signed bursary agreements. The State should recover that money because we want all our children to get bursaries. All beneficiaries of the bursary scheme who get jobs must pay back into the pool. Today, you can actually get the data on all the graduates who have gone abroad on the Internet. They are free to go if they want to because labour is mobile. However, we must get back our investment because those countries that get our manpower do not help us in any way. So, let us institute a structured mechanism for recovering bursary funds and ploughing them back into the pool. The hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education must look at the agreements. They are there in the files. I have nothing against people who go out of the country for work. Actually, I am happy that they feed their families and remit money here. However, some of the money they remit must go towards paying of the money the Government spent on educating them. That is why we are also asking for dual citizenship to be allowed. Let people be free to move around. We can actually raise a lot of money to finance our health care system.

Mr Chairperson, I ended the debate on the previous point without mentioning one important point. The Ministry of Health is at the apex of the provision of policy direction, training and other matters relating to health care provision in the country. So, the health infrastructure it rolls out should have all the facilities needed for providing health care, such as reproductive health services, which must be accessible everywhere so that young people can have choices services. They must be one-stop health facilities. So, there must be a balance between rolling out a lot of infrastructure and providing more services therein.  

Sir, there is a difference between religion and religiosity. There is too much religiosity in this country. People say that they cannot do certain things because they are members of some church, and even want other people to think like them. In this country, like the United Nations (UN) Country Representative said, sex has become a game, and people must play it safely with boots. So, reproductive health services must be available. My recommendation is that people follow the ‘ABC’ of tackling the Human Immuno-deficiency Virus (HIV), namely, abstinence, being faithful and using a condom. We know that we cannot stop at abstinence because those who do not abstain must also be saved from the disease. Even I could, at some stage, have been doing some dangerous things and may only have been saved by the other elements. So, these services should be available in all our health points, such as clinics, hospitals and health centres. It will be pointless to roll out 650 clinics without the components necessary to deliver holistic and safe health solutions to our people. You may have all the medicines but, perhaps, what some people really want are other services like advice on reproductive health. Some of the health personnel can be retrained so that they can multi-task. One person can deal with all the facets of health so that we prevent our people from going into dangerous waters.

Mr Chairperson, next week, 1st December, will be World AIDS Day. Let us all go and get tested for HIV. I went for voluntary counselling and testing (VCT) and people asked me about the results. That is not the issue. The point is that I need to know my status so that I can know what to do. What is important is to know. Therefore, everyone must know their status, and I hope that we can join the hon. Minister, wherever he will be on 1st December, and be tested. We do not necessarily have to advertise because that can bring stigma. However, there is nothing special about being negative or positive. If you are positive, there is a solution. If you are not, you know how to protect yourself from getting infected. The catch word is, “Knowing”. I hope that all Parliamentarians will get tested so that they know their status. I know. Do you? That is the issue. If we all know our status, we will solve the HIV/AIDS problem in a few years. If many people who are positive get onto the treatment regime, the national infection rates will go down in a few years. Zambia has already attained the HIV/AIDS target under the Millennium Development Goals (MDGs), but it is shocking that the infection rate is rising among young people and the reason for that is that the young people do not have access to reproductive health services. Everyone has become a pastor telling young people not to engage in pre-marital sex to no avail. We all know that. Therefore, the reproductive health services must be made available.

Mr Chairperson, the other issue I want to talk about is male circumcision, and I am happy that the hon. Minister mentioned it. In December, 2012, I publicly made a decision to get circumcised. I went in, they cut me and I came out. There is nothing difficult about it. There was even a television crew.  I did that as an example for the young people to emulate. 

Hon. Members: Show us.

Mr Hamududu:  You should have come.  It was caught on camera.

Mr Chairperson, we must provide leadership, especially to the younger generations. For our parents, these are things that cannot be discussed, but, we, the young people, must do it when we see that it works. No one should tell others to do what they, themselves, do not do.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, I can tell you that getting circumcised is a good thing. However, I will leave the details for another forum.

Hon. Members: Lay it on the Table.

Mr Hamududu: It is not possible to lay that …

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, the other issue I wish to discuss is family planning, which my elder brother, Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo ably debated under another Motion. Family planning services should be made available. Investing in those services has development benefits. I went to a meeting in Luyaba, a place in my constituency, and one young man said that he had not met with his wife for four days.  I asked him why and he said that it was because there were no family planning services at the clinic. This young man was afraid that, if he met with his wife, they might have an unplanned pregnancy. Pregnancies should be planned. Even if one ends up with eight children, it still should be a result of a deliberate decision. We must not hide behind religion when many in our country are dying. 

Mr Chairperson, Africa has a problem because 50 per cent of her 1.1 billion people are younger than eighteen years. So, if we do not invest in providing the young people with reproductive health services, very soon, we will have a demographic disaster. The teenage pregnancies, early marriages and drug abuse that we talk about are all signs of a country that is headed for a demographic disaster. For us to avoid that, we need to educate our young people, roll out sexual and reproductive health services everywhere, provide family planning and address gender inequality. 

Sir, we all know that poverty and other negative health indicators have the face of a woman. So, we must also invest in empowering women as a strategy to enhance their health. I am happy that the hon. Minister of Gender and Child Development is seated there. All ministries must champion the gender agenda. We also have been telling the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to include a health component in its work. It should not just be about helping farmers to grow maize. We have been saying that the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) must be engendered. The inputs must be distributed equally between the sexes. If the ministry did that, it would quickly address some of the issues …

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir. 

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to raise a point of order. As you know, I rarely rise on points of order.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, on many occasions, the United Party for National Development (UPND) has castigated us, on your right, over our position on street vending. So, are the UPND hon. Members in order to come here and sit comfortably when their President is on record saying that he will not remove street vendors from the street? Is the party in order to contradict what it has been saying all this time?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Luo: Mr Chairperson, I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the Chairperson is not aware of where those pronouncements were made and by whom. Therefore, the hon. Member is allowed to continue.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, if you had given me the opportunity, I would have convinced her that street vending can be modernised. 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Hamududu: The customers are on the streets.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: You go to Accra, Ghana.

Interruptions 

Mr Hamududu: Sir, let me continue with my debate.

The Deputy Chairperson: Please, continue with your debate. The Chair is not aware of that debate outside the House.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, we will move a Motion to clearly explain how street vending can be done smartly and in an orderly manner. For now, let me just conclude my debate. 

Mr Chairperson, gender equality is very important, and matters of health should not necessarily be left to the Ministry of Health, but rather approached from an inter-ministerial perspective. That is why the Ministry of Gender and Child Development also handles health issues. We do not necessarily need a ministry. In the planned Gender Equality and Equity Bill, what we need is a commission, which should be higher than a ministry, so that all ministries can be co-ordinated in the gender agenda because our defective health system now has a female face. We are taking long to address many health issues because of serious gender inequalities. If women were empowered, we would not spend so much money on health. So, I hope that the Bill will provide only for a commission on gender, not a ministry as well. In health, for instance, the Ministry of Health is supposed to add value by providing leadership in driving the gender agenda in the sector ministries. 

Sir, in summary, the things we must do to help this hon. Minister, who spends so much money, is to, firstly, educate all the young people. An uneducated population cannot be healthy. Secondly, let us address gender inequality and invest in sexual and reproductive health. This is a development compact on which Africa is dilly-dallying. Today, African leaders are talking about very strange things like climate change. Yes, we must be concerned about that, but we have other things that are more pertinent to our people. I, therefore, support the Vote of the Ministry of Health, but with the strong recommendation that we do not have so many ministries. Let us reduce the over-heads so that we can take the money to the grassroots where the services are required. To that end, I recommend a merger of the ministries of Health, and Community Development, Mother and Child Health so that we save a lot of money at the top where most of it is swallowed. 

Sir, with those few words, I support the Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to add my voice to the proposals presented before us this afternoon by the hon. Minister of Health. 

Sir, I listened to part of the hon. Minister’s presentation from outside. However, I listened very carefully and appreciated the various programmes that the ministry is implementing throughout the country to improve health services.

Mr Chairperson, as a Member of Parliament from a rural constituency, I will not attempt to discuss the macro dimensions of health today, but rather deal with health issues on the ground, with specific examples from Liuwa Constituency.

Mr Chairperson, may I remind you that, for us in the rural areas, the platform of intervention was defined many years ago in the Sixth National Development Plan (SNDP) formulated under the Movement Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Administration. The standard was that there should be a health services facility every 5 km for the very good reason that the health facilities are vastly spaced. District hospitals are sometimes as far apart as 120 km. These kinds of distances, alone, preclude many people from accessing health services. Arising from that, I think, in 2010, there was a concerted effort to construct health posts throughout the country. Let me report to the hon. Minister that, in Liuwa, none of those health posts whose construction was started in 2010, which is four years ago, has been completed. Those health posts are within 5 km to 6 km of certain areas, but even they are not enough. So, we look forward to the construction of 650 health posts countrywide to augment that effort. The key point that I want to emphasise to the hon. Minister today is that those health posts have not yet been completed. When I visited my constituency in September, 2014, I learnt that the staff house for the health post at Mulinga had not been plastered and painted and doors and window panes had not been fitted while the clinic was still at the roof level. The clinic at Namweti, in the flood plain, has equally not been completed. As for the one at Salunda, the structure was built and painted, but it has not had latrines for the last four years, and your office in Kalabo says that a health facility without latrines cannot be opened. So, the facility has not been opened. At Loke, the story is the same. Near the border with Angola, there is another health centre, and that particular one is a sad story because the whole building was condemned. So, all the effort that was put into the project from 2010 has amounted to nothing. It has to be rebuilt from scratch. So, I appeal to the hon. Minister, as he looks at his budget, to complete those structures because failing to do so will be condemning the people in those areas to walking 40 km or 100 km to the nearest health centre. For us in the rural areas, he can talk about this and that equipment but, unless he deals with this issue, as far as we are concerned, he would have done nothing.

Sir, let me also refer to what is happening in some of the clinics. In Liuwa, the three clinics that we have had in the last thirty years are in a bad state. The mattresses for patients were bought thirty years ago. I was shown some of them, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The quorum has collapsed again.

Business was suspended from 1233 hours until 1234 hours.

The Deputy Chairperson: The quorum has been restored. Hon. Dr Musokotwane, you may continue.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was talking about the bad state of the old clinics in Liuwa, where I was shown some beds. At Kuli, for instance, the mattresses looked like birds’ nests and not fit for any human being to sleep on. This is the reality in the clinics over which the hon. Minister superintends. Further, the clinics in those areas do not have radios to enable the staff to communicate with the district office when they need assistance. The clinics at Sishekano and Siluwe do not even have solar power. So, they cannot stock some vaccines. I was told of a health assistant who had to burn grass as a source of light while attending to a woman who was in labour, which means that the baby was being exposed to the danger of being chocked by the smoke. 

Mr Chairperson, the shortage of staff accommodation is adversely affecting many places, not only Liuwa. Some clinics have been completed, but they are white elephants because there is no one to provide the services. In some clinics, there is only one member of staff, who must attend to the patients, draw water and do the cleaning. That is the reality in rural health services. 

Mr Chairperson, the health services requirements in the rural areas are quite modest, just like it is with education services. They do not cost a lot of money. How much money does it cost to buy a solar panel to prevent babies from being exposed to smoke at birth? How much does it cost to construct a house for a health assistant? I think, it is about K200,000. Is that too much? How much does it cost to buy mattresses for patients? We just need little amounts of money. However, we see a situation in which the requirements of the majority of our people seem to be lowly prioritised in the ministry’s budget. How much do we need to buy radios and medicines? From what we have seen, so far, under this administration, there is a large scope for saving money, which can go a long way towards meeting the requirements of the people. Our colleagues in this House have, on many occasions, spoken about how by-elections have deliberately been caused. There is no by-election that will cost less than K5 million. Can you imagine how many staff houses you can build and how many solar panels and mattresses you can buy with that amount? Unfortunately, no matter how much we talk about these things, you do not listen. Whenever there is a by-election, all of the sudden, the money to hold it will be found. I believe that we can do a lot more to meet the needs of our people if that is our intention.  

Mr Chairperson, we used to hear, many times, our colleagues in this House chorus the fact that a new Boma had been formed. However, some of us have been arguing that, when looking at delivering services to the people, a Boma is actually secondary. I say this because, when constructing a Boma, the first thing one does is to construct the office and house for the District Commissioner (DCs). However, is that what the people on the ground need? Today, the houses for the Bomas are being built but, at the national level, we are failing to complete the clinics. So, I question the contribution of the new Bomas to development in terms of what the people actually need. In fact, their contribution is negative because they are diverting resources away from the people’s real needs. In my view, the Government must slow down the construction of the new Bomas or just forget about them completely …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mrs Kabanshi: Question!

Dr Musokotwane: … because the people out there need clinics. If you asked the people in my village what they want between a clinic and an office, they will opt for a clinic.

Interruptions

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Why would they want a DC?

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: So, if the plight of the rural communities is a lack of DCs, please, carry on building houses for DCs instead of other infrastructure. We will not blame you. However, if what the people need are mattresses, clinics and latrines, …

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: They do not know how to serve the people.

Dr Musokotwane: … certainly, the Bomas are useless as far as I am concerned.

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Chairperson, finally, I want to talk about the 650 clinics …

Rev. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: I have not seen one in Keembe.

Dr Musokotwane: … that the Government intends to construct countrywide, which is a good initiative. However, we have been talking about this issue under this Administration for the last three years even though I know that the genesis of this project is not the PF Government. The discussion about the construction of the health clinics started, maybe, a year or two before the PF came into office, which is fine. The most important thing is that we expected you to move fast because the people are getting tired of just hearing that the clinics will be constructed. You even face the risk of a different Administration inaugurating the clinics. So, I will pray for you so that you can run like a youth …

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: … and get the clinics …

Laughter

Dr Musokotwane: … constructed as quickly as possible so that you can inaugurate them.

Thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. 

Sir, I would like to acknowledge the high value of the contributions from Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo, Hon. Hamududu and Hon. Dr Musokotwane. Yes, indeed, I have heard much that I will follow up on because this is the kind of advice that we need from our colleagues. I will, therefore, not attempt to go through the many points that have been raised. I will also certainly be very selective in what I lay on the Table in spite of Hon. Hamududu’s suggestions.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: I will, however, comment on, perhaps, just two or three things. 

Sir, allow me to say to Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo that the maternal mortality reduction I talked about was certainly not for the last three years only. Perhaps, I did not make it clear that I was talking about progress made from 2007 to 2012. I acknowledge that. It is a matter of science. With regard to his proposal for the reinstatement of the staff who were dismissed, I think that the hon. Minister of Labour discussed the matter at reasonable length. So, I will not go into the details, but only summarise the position, which you may not know. Of the 499 dismissed health workers, about 200 who have still not been re-appointed are all eligible for reappointment, not reinstatement and they have all been advised accordingly.

Mr Chairperson, I think that I should limit my remarks, at this point, to reassuring my colleagues that I will follow up on their advice.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 46/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 46/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 78 – (Zambia Security Intelligence Services – Office of the President – K501,301,315).

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Chairperson, allow me to express my deepest gratitude for the privilege to address this august House on the estimates of revenue and expenditure for 2015 in respect of the Zambia Security Intelligence Service (ZSIS).

Mr Chairperson, I wish to start by reminding this august House that, as enshrined in the Constitution, it is the responsibility of the ZSIS to protect the people and Republic of Zambia against threats to its interests through the provision of timely and accurate information. This responsibility requires a timely flow of resources to facilitate the smooth and efficient running of this key institution, which is cardinal to the security architecture of our country. It is for this reason that the required resources are availed to it.

Sir, the mandate conferred on the ZSIS is key to the preservation of Zambia’s peace, security and stability. It is, therefore, important that the institution delivers on its mandate in line with the aspirations of the people of Zambia, to whom it owes its ultimate allegiance. This House’s support will help the institution discharge its mandate effectively.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to reiterate to this august House that the peace our nation continues to enjoy is a result of the collective efforts of our defence and security services, of which the ZSIS is an integral part. The institution has proved, over the years, to be the country’s reliable first line of defence, mainly due to the support it has received from this august House in the allocation of resources. It is against this background that I wish to appeal to all hon. Members to be supportive in debating the 2015 estimates of expenditure for the ZSIS.

Mr Chairperson, as we consider these Budget estimates, it is important that we take stock of not only internal situations threatening the unity and Constitutional order of Zambia, but also the regional and global ones. Internally, political activity in the country has heightened ahead of the forthcoming Presidential By-election. In this regard, differences may arise as various political parties prepare for the by-election and, thereafter, the 2016 General Elections. It is, therefore, imperative that this institution is constantly alert to these and other threats in order to preserve peace and unity in the country.

Mr Chairperson, may I now draw the attention of this august House to the proposed budget for the ZSIS for 2015. The 2015 Budget estimates stand at K501,301,315, compared to this year’s authorised expenditure of K433,929,459.75. The increase has been necessitated by, among other factors, the need to improve information communication technology (ICT) systems and continue with infrastructure development.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude my presentation to hon. Members, I wish to reiterate my appeal to this august House to favourably consider the proposed budget for this institution.

With these few words, I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

______________ 

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

______________  

The House adjourned at 1256 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 2nd December, 2014.