DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOUTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 2nd December, 2014

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER
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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ZWPC STRATEGIC PLAN

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I have an announcement to make, and the announcement relates to the launch of the Zambia Women Parliamentarian Caucus (ZWPC) Strategic Plan for the years 2013 to 2016. The plan will be unveiled on Wednesday, 3rd December, 2014, and this will be in the auditorium at Parliament Buildings at 09 00hours. The strategic plan outlines the strategies that the caucus will implement in response to the various challenges that women face. Participation is open to all hon. Members of Parliament, as you can guess, on a voluntary basis. Hon. Members belonging to the ZWPC are, especially, encouraged to attend this very important launch.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

1958 CHIEFDOM BOUNDARIES’ RE-DESIGNATION

251. Mr Mwanza (Solwezi West) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

(a)    what progress had been made on the re-designation of the 1958 chiefdom boundaries;

(b)    what obstacles, if any, were hindering the re-designation of the chiefdom boundaries; and

(c)    when a new map for chiefdom boundaries would be issued.

The Deputy Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Mrs Kawandami): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs is still consulting with the Surveyor-General’s Office.

Mr Speaker, the exercise of re-designing chiefdom boundaries is expensive. In addition, the inadequacy of funds, against other competing national needs such as the construction of palaces in the ten provinces, has caused the delay in the re-designation of the chiefdom boundaries.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs is currently consulting with the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection through the Surveyor- General’s Office on the issuance of new chiefdom boundary maps.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to raise this  serious point of order.

Mr Speaker, you are aware that the people of Zambia have been agitating and soliciting for a new Constitution. As a result of the cry of the Zambians, a Draft Constitution has been released. In it, I am aware, as I know you are, that there is a clause which talks about a running mate. 

Mr Speaker, we, on your left, have realised that our colleagues on your right, the Patriotic Front (PF) hon. Members, have misrepresented and misinterpreted this clause of the running mate and in their zeal to ensure that there is a running mate, they went to their two conventions and have come up with two presidential candidates who, in their opinion, are going to be running mates.

Mr Speaker, are they in order to misinterpret this clause which was well intended?

Mr Speaker: Order!

My ruling is that given the complexity of the point of order, I will reserve my ruling.

May the hon. Member for Solwezi West continue.

Laughter

Mr Mwanza: Mr Speaker, you and the rest of the hon. Members of Parliament will recall that there was a specific promise made by the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs that this document would be ready within two weeks from the date given. It is now over six months since that promise was made and, today, we have been told, again, that we must be patient. This is unacceptable. Can I have a comment from the hon. Minister.

Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, I mentioned earlier in my answer that, as a ministry, we have priorities and we needed to look at the construction of chiefs’ palaces against the finances that we have available for these projects. The ministry felt that the construction of palaces should be given more priority than the re-designation of boundaries.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, this issue of re-designation of boundaries has been a thorn in the flesh everywhere. It has been a thorn in the Western Province, North-Western Province and Eastern Province. This issue gave us hell when we were in the Government. When the Patriotic Front (PF) took over the Government, it promised …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, substitute the word ‘hell’.

Mr Muchima: It gave us nightmares ... 

Laughter 

Mr Muchima: … and we thought that it would be a priority for the Patriotic Front (PF) Government because of all the wrangles, differences and wars it has caused. 

Why is it so difficult for this Government to prioritise this matter when there is equipment in the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection that can print maps within the shortest possible time? Hon. Minister, do you not think that the construction of palaces is just a scapegoat because the real issue here is boundaries? What is your comment? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, as much as I appreciate what the hon. Member is asking about, I want to remind him that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) was in power for twenty years, but failed to do this. You cannot expect the PF to do it in two years. 

The Patriotic Front (PF) Government …

Mr Muchima interjected.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, do not intervene in that fashion. 

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): The PF Government is in discussions with the Surveyor-General. We will come up with these boundaries. We are working and we will deliver.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, the people of Chibombo District do not need palaces for their chiefs built because they do it themselves. 

In the face of land becoming valuable and towns getting bigger, the issue of boundaries has escalated. Some chiefs are claiming land in other chiefdoms. This is a critical issue which does not need a lot of money because …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, what is your question?

Mr Shakafuswa: The excuse of building chiefs’ palaces in areas like Chibombo District does not hold water. Sir, can the Patriotic Front (PF) Government make this a priority?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member knows that one cannot just sit in the office and draw boundaries. We need to go round and survey the land. 

We are currently doing this because we know how important it is to have boundaries and the PF is committed to executing this function. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that according to the PF Government’s priorities, the construction of palaces is critical. We agree with you because our chiefs are entitled to that. On this side of the divide, however, we believe that you should have started with boundaries. 

Hon. Minister, both you and your hon. Deputy come from the Copperbelt Province. Therefore, you should be aware that out of the fifteen chiefs, not less than ten have boundary disputes. 

Mr Speaker, I do not believe that, at the moment, more than two palaces are being constructed on the Copperbelt. What effort has been made to reconcile the chiefs who do not see eye-to-eye? 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I am almost lost. If hon. Members start generalising issues, we will not be able to give specific answers. 

Sir, we realised the importance of ensuring that we have boundaries and started working on them in the shortest possible time. The MMD had these disputes for a very long and did nothing about them. We are doing something about them now. We will not wait for twenty years. We are going to roll out this programme in the coming year as the people vote for us because it is a PF programme and not your programme. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Speaker, the 1958 map is there so I do not know what the hon. Minister is trying to say. We had concluded that we would solve all problems involving boundaries using this particular map which, unfortunately, has failed to satisfy the boundaries. 

When will the Government come up with a new map that will designate the boundaries? It has nothing to do with the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). 

Laughter 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, we are answering this question this way because it has been asked before. We know about the 1958 map, but this map has to be altered to suit the environment. This is why the Surveyor-General has to survey and come up with proper boundaries. We will do this in due course with the new President who is coming, His Excellency Mr Edgar Lungu.

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister told the nation that one of the reasons the maps are not being done is the cost involved.   

Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I am very humbled to be given an opportunity to raise a point of order. 

Mr Speaker is the Chief Whip, who happens to be Acting Leader of Government Business, in order to embark on a campaign trail in the House …

Laughter 

Prof. Lungwangwa: …when, from time to time, you have guided that matters of parties should not be brought on the Floor of this House? Is he in order, Sir? I seek your serious ruling. 

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that I am cognisant of the fact that we are in a season of electioneering.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: However, I think that, as far as possible, we should try and reserve these campaigns for areas outside the precincts of the Floor of the House for obvious reasons. There are different prognoses that will be made and I would not want to have clashes on those prognoses. So, as far as possible, please, let us restrict ourselves to our business. 

Hon. Member for Chipata Central, you may continue. 

Mr Mtolo: Thank you, Sir, for guiding that we should not campaign here. 

Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister said that one of the reasons the Government is not coming up with the boundaries is because the money which would have been directed to this purpose is being used for the construction of chiefs’ palaces. Could the hon. Minister tell me and the nation at large which palaces are being built and where? 

Mr Speaker: The difficulty I have is that this raises a new question. Let me guide further. 

I think that the issue under discussion is very narrow in scope and, so far, the hon. Minister seems to be repeating himself, in terms of responses. I do not think that this is the best way of using this very precious time. 

I will, therefore, take the last question from the hon. Member for Kasempa. 

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events. 

Laughter 

KING LEWANIKA UNIVERSITY CONSTRUCTION

252. Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when the construction of King Lewanika University in the Western Province would commence;

(b)    whether a contractor had already been identified and, if so, what the name of the contractor was;

(c)    what the estimated cost of the project was; and

(d)    what the time frame for the project was. 

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Prof. Willombe): Mr Speaker, the construction of King Lewanika University in the Western Province will commence in January, 2015. The contractor, by the name of Datong Construction Limited, has been identified. The project is estimated to cost K160 million. The project will be constructed within a period of three years.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has assured us that the construction of the university will start in January, 2015. Is the hon. Minister sure that the construction of the university will start in January or is the Government doing another donchi kubeba like it did with the Barotseland Agreement.

Laughter 

Prof. Willombe: Mr Speaker, the construction will start in January, 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, establishing a university is not like establishing a secondary school or a college. There must be a clear vision and mission of the university. 

Sir, what steps have been taken by the ministry to clearly conceptualise the mission and vision of this university so that those parameters will be in place when the implementation of the teaching of research and Public Service comes in? 

Prof. Willombe: Mr Speaker, all this has already been done.

I thank you, sir.

Laughter 

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the estimated budget for the university is roughly about US$25 million …

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order not to answer my extremely serious question? The people out there are waiting for detailed answers from him. Is he in order to evade such an important question which I asked regarding the parameters that have been put in place to ensure that the vision and mission of King Lewanika University are achieved? 

I need your ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The difficulty that you have is that you raised a question and the best thing that could have been done in the circumstances was just to follow it up with another question which would have elicited the kind of response you are looking for. A more direct question would have actually elicited that response. He has confirmed that the matters you are concerned with have already been done, but the details would have been a matter of another question and not a point of order. 

I have been quite liberal, but for the time being and for the sake of progress, I will not allow points of order.

The hon. Member for Liuwa may continue.

Dr Musokotwane: I was saying that the estimated budget for this university is US$25 million. Is the hon. Minister sure that a university can be built for US$25 million?

Prof. Willombe: Mr Speaker, the construction of the university will be done in phases.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, we have been informed that the construction of this university will begin next month. Has this contractor mobilised and moved on site, considering that the commencement date is next month?

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, the construction of the King Lewanika University is a Patriotic Front (PF) agenda. The PF did not just wake up one day and decided that there would be a university there. It is the realisation of our PF Manifesto that each province must have, at least, one university because the provinces are not the same and, therefore, the universities must answer to the needs of particular provinces. This is the mission on which the PF stands. To think otherwise would be to deny the compliments that are due to it. We, as the PF, are going to execute this programme to the best of our abilities because we love the young people who must have some grounding in the provinces where they are. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, the question was whether a contractor has mobilised.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, in a quest to defend ourselves, I forgot that aspect. However, Datong has been identified as the contractor. In fact, if you remember, we came to this House and stated that the universities that will be constructed in the provinces will be done through the design and build mode. It took us a little time to arrive at the contractor, but now the contractor is ready and we are just waiting for the 2015 Budget to be passed so that we can give the contractor the upfront funding that is needed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, since the project is expected to be completed within a three-year period, at an amount of K160 million, and January is about twenty-eight days from now, how much will be allocated as a first payment towards the contractor in order for him to start work?

Mr Speaker: I do not seem to understand that question. I would like to follow the question as well. What is the question?

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, how much money will be readily available as a first allocation from the K160 million to be paid to the contractor?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, when a contractor is identified, we give that contractor 10 per cent of that amount to get the ball rolling. Thereafter, the payment depends on the progress being made. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, the first allocation of money to construct this university was reflected in the 2014 Budget and nothing has happened on the ground yet. Why did we fail to do anything and why has the date shifted to January, 2015?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the reason is very simple. The procurement procedures in Zambia are quite lengthy and burdensome. However, the process has finally been concluded. I am glad the hon. Member still remembers that there was an allocation in the 2014 Budget of K6.5 million. We were, however, not able to utilise it because the procurement process was incomplete. Now that the process has been completed and we can proudly announce who the contractor is, we are sure that the contractor will be on site in January. 

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, riding on Hon. Lungwangwa’s question, what schools will you have at this university?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, although you had ruled that Hon. Lungwangwa needed to file a new question, I think the same can be given to Hon. Kaingu. I would not recall off-the-cuff. We have a number of universities that are being built and those that are emerging. Therefore, I think is a bit farfetched to expect an hon. Minister to know which schools will be offered at the King Lewanika University. Obviously, since it is in Western Province, I think the main schools to do with marine sciences and agriculture will be offered. I am sorry, I cannot give you a definite list of schools that we will emerge at the moment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that the King Lewanika University will be constructed next year, once the 2015 Budget has been approved. I am wondering where the money is going to come from since in the 2015 Budget, the provision is nil.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the ministry is yet to present its Budget and, please, do not pre-empt anything.

Interruptions

Dr Phiri: Sir, I can safely say that there is allocation of K650 million in the Yellow Book and part of it will cater for the universities. We have done our home work and that will be sufficient for us to construct the two universities by the way, in Luapula Province and Western Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I think that this question is important for the people of Western Province who are following this issue very closely. What are the details of the mission and vision of this important university? 

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I did not know that the question that came from Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa would be this contagious ,... 

Laughter

Dr Phiri: … but as the Hon. Mr Speaker guided, you need to give us time to take a look at the vision, mission and faculties of this important university. When that is done, that is when we can present that information to the House at a later stage. For now, the Patriotic Front (PF’s) vision will be realised.

The Hon. MMD Members laughed.

Dr Phiri: Sir, these are the two province-based universities we have budged for and we want them to succeed because that is the path which we want tertiary education to take. 

I thank you, Sir.

TYPES OF MUSEUMS IN ZAMBIA

253. Mr Kapyanga (Kabwe Central) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

(a)    what types of Museums Zambia had;

(b)    what role the Government was playing in the establishment of the Mining Museum in Kabwe District;

(c)    whether the Government was considering retrieving the skull of Broken Hill Man from the British Government upon the establishment of the Mining Museum; and

(d)    what the estimated cost of establishing the museum was.
Mrs Kawandami: Mr Speaker, there are four national museums in Zambia, namely the Copperbelt Museum in Ndola, the Livingstone Museum in Livingstone, the Lusaka National Museum in Lusaka and the Moto Moto Museum in Mbala. In addition, we have three community museums, namely the Choma Museum and Craft Centre, the Nayuma Museum in Mongu and the Jewish Museum in Livingstone.

Sir, there is another site museum in Livingstone which displays railway engines and wagons used by the Zambezi Saw Mills.

Mr Speaker, the Zambian Government, through the National Museums Board (NMB) and the National Heritage Conservation Commission (NHCC), has partnered with the Enviro-Processing Limited and it is providing the technical support required for establishing a mining museum.

Sir, the Enviro-Processing Limited has donated the exhibits and the land where this museum is to be established. Furthermore, the Enviro-Processing Limited has refurbished the buildings and the equipment and mining instruments found on the site. 

Mr Speaker, several attempts have been made by the Government of the Republic of Zambia to return the skull of Broken Hill Man back home. For many years now, the Zambian Government has engaged the British Government to try to influence the Board of Trustees of the British Museum of Natural History to release the skull of Broken Hill man, which was discovered in 1921.

Sir, the British Museum of Natural History is governed by a board of trustees/governors who are mandated by law to safeguard the museum’s collections and are reluctant to give out any object in their custody, especially if the disputed object was donated to the museum. The skull was taken to England …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on both sides!

Mrs Kawandami: … by Mr Ross McCartney, the Managing Director of the Rhodesia Broken Hill Development Company. The British Government has insisted that it does not interfere in the governance and management of the British Museum of Natural History, as it is governed by its own Act, which presently does not allow the return of objects and specimens collected from other countries. The British Government has merely offered to make replicas of the skull, which our museums already have.

Mr Speaker, one possible option which the Government of the Republic of Zambia is exploring is to engage the British Museum of Natural History through the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) Inter-Governmental Committee for promoting the return of cultural property to its countries of origin or its restitution in case of illicit appropriation which intervenes on behalf of an aggrieved state party by diplomatic approach. 

Sir, the total cost of establishing the Kabwe Mine Museum has been estimated at US$2 million, which is equivalent to K13 billion, to be raised through fundraising.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Kapyanga: Mr Speaker, what economic value will the establishment of the museum add to Kabwe and the country as a whole?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, there are a lot of economic benefits that museums bring to an environment. For example, tourists who come in the country stay in hotels thereby bringing foreign exchange to the country. Therefore, Kabwe would be revamped through tourism and more jobs would be created as a result of the museum.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, these colonialists came to Zambia and plundered our wealth and as a result of this, their countries are developed and they do not want to return our artifacts. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there is a way that we could tell these colonialists that we want that which belongs to us. They have plundered enough, pafula.

Mr L. J. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister referred to the initiative which is underway through UNESCO and, in my opinion, that is a sufficient response.

FOREST RESERVES PROTECTION

254. Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection:

(a)    what measures the Government had taken to protect forest reserves from encroachment in Kapiri Mposhi District;

(b)    when the Kapiri Mposhi District Forest Office would be renovated and provided with transport; and

(c)    when the bee-keeping programme and other initiatives aimed at reducing dependence on charcoal burning would be implemented.

The Deputy Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environment Protection (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the Government has put several measures to protect forest reserves from encroachments in Kapiri Mposhi District through conducting sensitisation activities on the existence of the forest estate and its importance, through forest patrols and law enforcement. Furthermore, the Government, through the Forestry Department, conducts regular patrols on all major entry points within the district to curb the illegal trade in forest produce.

Sir, the Government has put provisions in the 2015 Budget for the renovation of dilapidated district forest services in Kapiri Mposhi District. The Government will further procure motor cycles to enhance forest patrols in selected districts, including Kapiri Mposhi.

Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Department of Forestry, has trained several groups in bee-keeping to reduce the over dependence on charcoal production by the communities. The Government has also put in place provisions in the 2015 Budget to train more communities and to provide support for alternative livelihoods and income generating activities such as crafts, basket making, fruit tree propagation and establishing of seed orchards.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.
___________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

VOTE 78 – (Zambia Security Intelligence Services – Office of the President – Headquarters – K501,301,315).

(Consideration resumed)

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the Vote.

Mr Chairperson, as we head towards 20th January, 2015, we need a leveled ground, therefore, officers of the Zambia Security Intelligence Services, under the Office of the President, must be objective and must not be bias towards a particular party.

Sir, in Kalabo, it is very difficult to differentiate between the Patriotic Front (PF) cadres and officers under the Office of the President because the vehicle that belongs to the Office of the President usually carries the PF cadres.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Shakafuswa: What question?

Mr Miyutu: That is the answer to that question.

Laughter

Mr Miyutu: Therefore, we do not want resources under the Zambia Security Intelligence Services to be used for the benefit of a particular political party. Officers of the Zambia Security Intelligence Services must realise that they are mandated to provide security for all the Zambians within the boundaries of Zambia. However, they, sometimes, become very political and I just want to remind them of their main role in this Republic. I also want to state that the money that has been allocated to this agency must benefit all the Zambians, including those in far-flung areas like in Kalabo. Therefore, we do not want to see vehicles which will be procured with the money which will be approved under this agency to be used for political campaigns.

Ms Imenda: Correct.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I support the Vote.

Thank you, Sir. 

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to comment on this very important Vote.

Sir, this country has moved from a one-party era of running politics to a pluralist dispensation, and so, it is important that the Zambia Security Intelligence Services − Office of the President, Special Division, should also move with time. The time I was at the University of Zambia (UNZA), I remember my colleagues and I being scared of officers from this division because they were associated with repression. It was like if one spoke about something today, then, the next day something would happen to them. This was not right. I think we should move with time.

Today, all the secret agencies and intelligence systems in the world are opening up, meaning that activities of the intelligence system are now subjected to public scrutiny. Previously, we have had situations here in which the intelligence system in Zambia was used as a tool to misappropriate or even siphon resources out of the Zambian economy.

However, Sir, I would be comfortable if Parliament moved in and looked at the oversights of the resources given to this office. Everywhere in the modern world today, this office reports to parliament or congress or whatever it is called. Therefore, it is high time that we also brought the activities of this division under Parliament scrutiny. There should be a committee put in place to scrutinise how the operations of this division are done. I admit that there are certain things we cannot delve into, but it is high time we started looking into the activities of this office.

Mr Chairperson, people have a tendency of saying that this department usually works with the party of the day. It is very true. In my opinion, this is the more reason we are seeing more ills today attributed to the activities of this division because of limited or lack of checks and balances.

Sir, since we have gone into plural politics, we have to check the excesses of what the people in government are doing. If people cannot be allowed to check the excesses of government, then, our country and society cannot develop.

Mr Chairperson, today, we are failing to move forward because of rampant excesses and abuses of resources by not only the Patriotic Front (PF), but it might be United Party for National Development (UPND) tomorrow, but we have to move ahead of time. We have to demand professionalism out of these professional people. The Zambia Security Intelligence Services − Office of the President (Special Division) is supposed to have highly ranked professional individuals who cannot reduce themselves to mere cadres. If they have got a department which deals with cadres, then, this has to come to an end.

Sir, I will give an example of the by-elections that were held in Katuba. People from the Office of the President were in the fore front planning bad activities there. They were the ones doing most of the dirty work.

Mr Mbewe: Sure!

Mr Shakafuswa: Yes!

When one of them came at the police station where one of my daughters was after being disturbed, he was lucky I did not find him there. I was going to treat him like any other person.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: This has to come to an end. You cannot hide in the guise of being an officer at the Office of the President and do dirty things for the people whom you are supposed to support. This has to come to an end. 

Zambia belongs to all of us. If you want to participate in politics, as a proud Zambian, leave that division and we will talk to you as equals. We also had spies from the PF camp who were telling us who was doing what. We had spies as well just as they were spying on us. Zambians have come to a level where they are saying enough is enough. What Zambians want is a leveled playing field, hence the reason we fought the one-party State political dispensation. We wanted to bring accountability to our country. We want to have a situation where ideas flow and those with the best ideas are the ones who should run the country. We are not going to be restricted to a group of people who will run the Government incompetently and suppress the people’s needs in this year and era. No! Whether it is the UPND governing the country tomorrow or the PF, which I know is on the way out, …

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Shakafuswa: You are on your way out.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Shakafuswa: The bottom line is that we should not have dual citizenship, those who are ruling and those who are ruled. We should have a platform where we are all treated like Zambians.

Sir, in the so-called PF regime, most of us, our businesses have gone under because we do not have access to resources. When the PF suspects that one is a shareholder in a company, it does detrimental things to the welfare of its citizens. PF members come from one region, so you find that wealth is going to one region.

Hon. Opposition Members: Sure! 

Mr Shakafuswa: Well, I can reveal that most of the people that are running contracts are from one region.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mbewe: Ulula!

Mr Shakafuswa: That is very wrong.

Mr Mbewe: Ulula!

Mr Shakafuswa: I hope that the Zambia Security Intelligence Services − Office of the President will admit that this is wrong. This is bringing acrimony in this country. It is bringing divisions. The wealth of this country has to be shared equitably.

Mr Chairperson, there is a tendency by the Ruling Party to look at the Opposition members as enemies of the country. Why is the PF participating in multi-party democracy if what it wants is a one-party State such as that under the Kaunda regime? Why is it using Kaunda’s techniques to perpetuate dictatorship in this country?

Mr Chairperson, I remember the time I was a minister from the Opposition and I was fired. I used to sit with Hon. Given Lubinda who used to laugh at me saying, “Ati wankala ku gona kuzingwa bench,” but he is the one who has gone there today.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: He is kugona kuzinkwa azigwila kuja!

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: When Hon. Kambwili was in the Opposition, he used to talk on behalf of the Zambians, but now that he is on the other side and has made his money, he now thinks like a bourgeoisie and that there is no tomorrow …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, this  is the man in order to bring me in his debate when he knows for a fact that the he is the one who introduced me to the business that I do? Is he in order to state that I have made money today when we have been making money with him since 2007?

Laughter

The Chairperson: You see, now secrets are being revealed. That is why we tell you not to discuss individuals.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Definitely, he is not in order. Please, Hon. Shakafuswa, come back to the subject.

Mr Shakafuswa: Actually, Mr Chairperson, the point I wanted to make is that the hon. Member of Parliament, whom I mentioned, was a vibrant defender of people’s rights. He was fearless.

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Shakafuswa, you are diverting from the topic. The issue under discussion is the Zambia Security Intelligence Services − Office of the President. Please, stick to the Vote.

You may continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: Yes, Sir. I am actually speaking in the same vein by illustrating a situation where when one is in the Back Bench, they speak on behalf of the people, but use the police and the Office of the President to scare people from expressing their views once in the Front Bench. I think that is cowardice of the highest order. Cowards are the ones who actually enjoy bullying people, trampling on people’s rights and disadvantaging their own people. These are cowards. In developed countries, they are actually called dictators. So, someone should not just change from being one who champions people’s rights to something else because they think that the system will defend them. 

Sir, we have had repressive regimes of Ian Smith and the one we saw in South Africa. However, today, people have risen above that. So, the officers in these offices who think they are above the law, should know that situations change and they can be brought to account for the ills which they are inflicting on the people of Zambia. So, as I support this Vote, I want to say that this department should not be used as a conduit for siphoning people’s money. Let this department not be used as an instrument of repression, one that stands in the way of multi-partism and take Zambia back to the one-party participatory ideas, which we have discarded and thrown into the dust bin.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you for according me this opportunity to debate and support the Vote for the Zambia Security Intelligence Services.

Sir, I would like to adopt the words of Hon. Miyutu and Hon. Shakafuswa as mine. I would like to buttress the same by stating that this a very important wing of the Government that was established by an Act of Parliament in order to protect the human rights of the citizens of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, this particular institution is so vital for the protection of our well-being in this country. So, I would like to call upon this institution to ensure that it rises above board and performs its functions as per Act of Parliament. From the time the Patriotic Front (PF) Government came into power, we have witnessed a lot of citizens’ rights being violated. We have also witnessed loss of lives as a result of violence being perpetrated by one political party. As the Opposition, we are aware that the Office of the President has the information on who is perpetrating this violence. Unfortunately, that information is not being used by the Government to ensure that this violence is curbed.

Sir, I want to inform you that this afternoon, there was a lot of violence in town. This violence is emanating from the two groupings in the PF.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Hamududu: It is true. They are beating each other up.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, this afternoon, …

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, is the hon. Member, who is debating, in order to bring in issues that have nothing to do with the Zambia Security State Intelligence? Is he in order to talk about the violence which we do not even know about and is just dreaming up?

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, as you debate, take that point of order into account.

You may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I am talking about issues of security, which are the domain of the State Intelligence wing of the Government. I am saying that this afternoon, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Now.

Mr Mwiimbu: … even right now, there is violence in town. This violence is perpetrated by the two groupings in the PF. Of the two groups, one is led by the Minister of Defence and Justice, Hon. Edgar Lungu, and the other one is led by Hon. Miles Sampa.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

You know, that is how you, sometimes, put us in predicaments. I would rather you stated that fact generally than mentioning names. I think you should just stick to the subject at hand and not individuals.

You may continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, Zambians know, and I would like you to take judicial notice of the leaders of the two factions of the PF. As we debate, there is so much violence and vehicles have been destroyed in town. The lives of our people are at stake because of the political rivalry in the PF, and that is the issue that I am raising.

Sir, it is unfortunate that the advice that is being rendered by the professionals in this organisation is not being heeded by those in the Government. I did refer to the various deaths of PF cadres. In the history of this country, we have witnessed the loss of lives since the PF came into power, and we know that some of those cadres implicated in these cases are appearing in court. However, these are the same cadres who are being given very senior positions in the PF. What that means is that those who are in the PF leadership are abetting violence in this country. If they were not doing so, they would have disciplined those party cadres. The voting in the PF ended two days ago and I shudder at the thought of what will happen in the days to come before the presidential by-election.

Mr Chairperson, Zambia has witnessed a long period and history of peace, but that is being disturbed by our colleagues and they know what is going on. Why should they allow such a situation to continue without getting advice from the Zambia Security Intelligence Services wing of the Government?

The Chairperson: That is where I was coming. I was about to ask you how you are linking what you are saying to the Zambia Security Intelligence Services.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, the security wing, especially the intelligence wing of the Government, is supposed to know what is happening in the country. That wing is supposed to have intelligent reports of what is to happen, and we tend to think that the wing is aware of what is being planned by our colleagues on your right. We are aware that it knows, and so, we are appealing to the intelligence wing of the Government to ensure that those who hold the realms of power adhere to its advice. The Zambia Security Intelligence Services has the responsibility not only to us as leaders, but also to the nation as a whole.

Mr Chairperson, we are aware of the happenings in the past pertaining to the intelligence wing of the Government. It is public knowledge that, in 2001, some officers misdirected themselves. Instead of acting professionally during elections, those officers participated in the elections. There is a judgment of the Supreme Court and the officers came to testify on the happenings during that period. We hope, for the sake of the country and its future, that this time around, as we proceed towards the elections on 20th January, 2015, that our brothers and sisters in the security wing of the Government will rise to the occasion and defend the Constitution and the rights of everyone who is in Zambia. We are looking forward to seeing them protect all of us, as professional officers. We do not expect them to take sides. They have a responsibility to protect all of us. 

Mr Chairperson, we do not want to hear stories of a parallel intelligence structure existing in this country. We have been hearing that some parallel structures have been established and they are countering the operations of the Zambia Security Intelligence System. That is not healthy and should not be allowed. This is frustrating the able men and women in the intelligence wing because they cannot operate professionally. Those who are doing such things must be told, in no uncertain terms, that what they are doing is undermining the integrity of the Zambia Security Intelligence System.

Mr Mwanza: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, those who have retired from the Zambia Security Intelligence System should stay away from this institution and just enjoy their money. They should not frustrate those they have left behind. We should not allow that.

Mr Chairperson, lastly, I want to appeal to our colleagues in the Zambia Security Intelligence System to assist the Zambia Police Force. The crime rate in this country is rising. The Zambia Security Intelligence System has the capacity to detect criminal elements in this country. It will be doing a great service to the nation by sharing information with the Zambia Police Force so that criminal elements terrorising Zambians are nabbed. 

Mr Chairperson, there are areas in this country where the Zambia Police Force cannot even go because of the crime rate in those particular areas. We are aware, however, that the Zambia Security Intelligence System has the capacity to assist the police. Therefore, after approving this particular Vote, it is my hope that the Zambia Security Intelligence System will be in a position to assist in curbing the crime rate in this country. Investors will be shying away from investing in this country if the crime rate continues rising. 

We need a crime free environment in this country. That is the best way to invite investors to Zambia. However, we are slowly losing the status of being a peaceful country. Once again, I urge our colleagues in the Zambia Security Intelligence System not to be political, but professional in carrying out their duties because they are there for all of us. 

Hon. Oppositions Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: If they do that, we will embrace them and not fear them. When we have information pertaining to what is happening, we will freely offer it to them. However, if we think they are siding with one grouping, we will not be able to collaborate with them and offer the information that we might have.

Mr Chairperson, with those few remarks, I would like to support the Vote. 

I thank you, Sir.

The Chairperson: In Tumbuka Bwalya is Walya.

Laughter 

The Chairperson: You can go ahead Mr Bwalya.

Mr Bwalya (Lupososhi): I acknowledge the mother tongue inference, Mr Chairperson.

Laughter 

Mr Bwalya: Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate this Vote and I will be very brief. The Zambia Security Intelligence Service is a very important institution and it plays a pivotal role in ensuring that there is peace and tranquility in the nation. On behalf of the people of Lupososhi Constituency, I would urge this particular institution to remain objective. Objectivity is very cardinal, especially when it comes to matters of national security. 

Mr Chairperson, it is important to call a spade a spade, especially when one is advising the President of the Republic of Zambia on matters of national security. This is because the advice given to the President will either build or destroy the nation. So, if any detail is left out, the President of the Republic of Zambia may be misled and eventually end up making a wrong decision that will affect millions of Zambian people.

Sir, it is critical for this wing of Government to be bold enough to tell the President or whoever it is charged with the responsibility to advise the truth even when talking about the Ruling Party, especially on matters that have to do with the lives of many Zambians. It is also true that intelligence officers must be bold enough to tell the President when the Ruling Party has been infiltrated by the Opposition. This is because, sometimes, the Opposition takes advantage of trouble in the Ruling Party and fuels in-fighting.

Laughter 

Mr Bwalya: So, the Zambia Security Intelligence Service must be bold enough to tell the Zambian people that the Ruling Party has been invaded. Therefore, we expect this institution to be as objective as possible.

Sir, it is also true that, to a large extent, the well being and life of the President depends on what this particular security wing does. Intelligence officers have to first check any place before the President can go there. They have to make sure the situation is favourable enough for the President to go to a certain area.

So, my appeal to the officers at the Zambia Security Intelligence Services is that they must remain professional and maintain the integrity that they have earned over the years. More often than not, there has been a tendency of certain individuals being carried away and giving the wrong advice to the Head of State. Certain Presidents have lost elections because of the wrong advice that this particular wing of the Government has given them.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words from the people of Lupososhi, I thank you.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Chairperson, I am prompted to debate this Vote because of some contributions by my colleagues. Some of my colleagues have been speaking from without, but …

Mr Pande interjected. 

Mr Muchima: No, I am speaking from an insider’s perspective.

Mr Mbewe: Tell us.

Laughter 

Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, I must declare interest that I am a product of this institution.

Mr Phiri: Shushushu land.

Mr Muchima: Yes, the shushushu land.

Laughter 

Mr Mbewe: You do not retire.

Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, credit should be given to the Zambia Security Intelligence Services for Zambia’s attainment of democracy. There was one President who boasted saying, “I will scrape off this institution once I come into power. These are people who are messing up the people of Zambia.”

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!

He is quoting what that President said. It is not him who is saying it now.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, thank you for protecting me. However, the moment he came into power, he fell in love with that institution to the extent that he could not do anything without it. I do not want to mention names.

Mr Pande: We know him.

Mr Muchima: Before becoming President, he was blind and did not know the purpose of this institution. When our colleagues in the Patriotic Front (PF) were on this side of the House, they thought that this was a bad institution. However, now that they are that side, their thinking has changed.

The truth is that this institution serves different purposes. We are here enjoying freedom because of that institution. We should thank Zambians for being peaceful. We should thank the former President, Dr Kenneth Kaunda and his team which comprised of people like my uncle, Hon. Alexander Bwalya Chikwanda (ABC) and Mr Vernon Mwaanga, who was the first Director-General of that institution.

Mr Chipungu: Oh!

Mr Pande: Yes.

Mr Muchima: Sir, It is a much disciplined institution. You cannot compare it with the police. The police of today are Patriotic Front (PF) police. They are not the Zambia Police Force.

Ms Imenda: They are cadres.

Mr Muchima: They are busy harassing people. You will never find officers from the Zambia Security Intelligence Services harassing anybody. I am one of those who were harassed by the police. They arrested me for no case. Those officers at the Zambia Intelligence Services are well disciplined people except that their advice falls on deaf ears. These are people who are found everywhere in this country. They sleep on the floor, they walk, and they break nights whilst you are sleeping to ensure that there is peace in this country. They are found in Chilubi, Kaputa, in Jimbe, Chama and many more places in our country and they do not complain. Apparently, some of you do not know them. 

They do justice for this country. They sacrifice for this country. This is an institution that requires motor vehicles and comfort, but because of politics, you start appointing people who do not have a proper background. When we were there, for you to effectively perform your duties, you first had to undergo certain stages of training but now, the moment one comes into power, they pick a nephew and put him in there, you are frustrating those officers. The officers are very hard working. You can see from me, for an example. I have been harassed by the PF; I have never stood anywhere to complain. I was locked up but God came and said Muchima, you are an innocent person. Those who were against me, they are now in trouble with God.

Laughter

Mr Muchima: In one way or another. They have left Muchima smiling.

Mr Mwiimbu: I hear they have left their wives outside.

Mr Muchima: Eh! 

Laughter

Mr Muchima: Some of them were even saying Muchima kills witnesses. Some were very excited that I was in trouble but I know what I do and stand for. This institution protects every Zambian both on that side and this side but they cannot talk. They are there merely to provide information, advice, records and action but if you find a President who does not care, who does things without paying much attention to the repercussions, all that effort goes to waste completely and this pains the officers a lot.

Mr Imenda: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Drink water, Muchima.

Mr Muchima: Recently, in Solwezi when we had a by-election, a teacher was caught stuffing votes into the ballot box, there was no action.

Mr Pande: For whom, PF?

Mr Muchima: For PF. In Nyakaseya, a teacher, whose name I will not mention, was caught red-handed but there was no action taken but the report was given. Who do you blame? You blame the system and the inexperienced PF Government. The reason why I had agreed to work with you, I thought you would tap experience so that I help you with the governance.

Mr Mbewe: Sure!

Mr Muchima: Today minus us, have you seen what is happening.

Mr Mbewe: Ah!

Mr Chipungu: What is happening now?

Mr Muchima: What is happening is there is no organisation, we are just seeing pangas and people are boxing each other. That is not governance. You cannot inspire anybody.

Mr Mbewe: Paya Farmer.

Mr Muchima: You are lucky Zambians are peaceful. You have set this country on fire for your irresponsible thinking.

The Chairperson: Mr Muchima, please come back to the subject under discussion.

Mr Muchima: The institution needs the Government’s …

Ms Imenda: Motivation.

Mr Muchima: … motivation.

Mr Ndalamei: Yes!

Mr Muchima: It is an important institution that is serving the people of Zambia wholeheartedly. They need to be appointed and promoted on merit. We need to continue training them both locally and abroad. The British and Americans retain their retired people until death because they are custodians of vital information.

Mr Pande: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Here in Zambia, you ditch the officers on political grounds that is how you lose out. This is an institution of brains that your do not transfer. They keep secrets of the nation. An example is this man, who will never divulge secrets no matter how much you trouble me …

Mr Mbewe: ulula manje.

Mr Muchima: … because it is my nation which I love and I equally love those young men and women in non-uniform. Buy them motors vehicles for transport like land cruisers, so that, they can serve us better. Listen to them. Take whatever they bring because they are not biased. I know it, if it was my view, we would not have even debated this vote. I would have just said this is our bedroom. They keep your bedroom, once they go wild, you would have lost it. I am saying to them, congratulations; keep it up in these difficulties. The time when we had little money we used to do great works, this time you are frustrating them. They need to be motivated.

For their accommodation, you are now giving them a small allowance, why?

Mr Mbewe: No water.

Mr Muchima: Previously, accommodation was being paid for …

Mr Mbewe: Mealie meal.

Mr Muchima: … mealie meal and everything was given to them. They were working with confidence but today, you have reduced them to an ordinary worker. They are special people that is why it used to be called special branch in the past. They report directly to the President. I think that is where the problem is on that linkage because some of the information, maybe the President just ignores it. I think there should be a commission or system they report to, so that, they are always heard because one individual can either take it or ignore it. I want you to help them. 

With these few words, the budget should be adjusted forward …

Mr Mbewe: Upwards.

Mr Muchima: Ya! The same forward, upwards.

Hon. UPND Members: Forward!

Laughter

Mr Muchima: They need transport, good accommodation, that issue of allowances, scrap it. Let them be accommodated properly according to their ranks. I do not know where they would have been getting the extra ngwee without that club we built. These are people should be looked after properly. There are many who have retired. I am urging whoever is responsible now, whether it is the Acting President, or party presidents …

Laughter

Mr Muchima: …please plead with them that they should restructure and lets us put warmth to our institution. With these few words, Mr Chairperson, this is an institution I would like to see grow properly like the Komitet Gosudarstvennoy Bezopasnosti (KGB), like this one in Britain …

Mr Chipungu: The Mosud.

Mr Muchima: …yes, the other one in Russia, the other one in Germany. I do not want to say much. We should be going to those levels. Times and situations are changing, let them also change with time because if you leave them, they will fail to pick information. Information is key and very important. Kapeya, I am seeing what you are doing.

Mr Kapeya indicated dissent.

Mr Muchima: Information is key …

Laughter

Mr Muchima: … for you to perform very well. Mr Chairperson, information is key, that institution deserves support of the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Chairperson, firstly, I would like to state that there is only one Zambia Security Intelligence Services, there are no parallel structures. Those are just rumours. This institution is for all the Zambians and we will try to operate as professional as much as possible. Coming to some issues that have been mentioned from various quarters, some are okay other are irrelevant to the discussion. I will try to go through some of them.

Mr Chairperson, as regards the issue of regionalism and companies coming from one area, I think that registration of companies is open to every Zambian. So, those who want to register companies should do so and get contracts from the Government.

Mr Chairperson, this Government will not allow schemes to use this institution as a conduit for siphoning money. The Government will not allow the loss of finances in that manner. It will ensure that it controls all the resources.

Mr Chairperson, as regards Hon. Mwiimbu’s statement on inciting people, I would like to state that the PF Government is in control.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: It is in control of the resources of the country. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: The PF is the only party that has been given the mandate to run the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: With two heads.

Mr Mukanga: The PF Government does not have two heads. It is the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) that have two heads. They are the Chilingalinga.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: The snake that eats itself.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Sir, the first time I came to Parliament around 2006, I learnt a word called Chilingalinga. This is what is happening with the UPND and the MMD coming together. 
    
Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: This Chilingalinga is a snake that eats itself and dies.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: So, with this arrangement, they are eating themselves up and will eventually collapse.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: They should learn a lesson from the Chilingalinga. I learnt that word from them.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: The PF is in control and will continue to be for as long as the people of Zambia gives it the mandate.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: They will give the PF the mandate because they have seen what it is doing and everything is okay. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I thank everybody for their contribution. We have taken note of the important issues that they contributed.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Vote 78/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – K4,108,454,445).

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Simuusa): Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Former President!

Laughter

Mr Mwila: President!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, I wish to take this opportunity to pass my condolences to the former First Lady …

Interruptions

Mr Chairperson: Order, both on my right and left. You are not listening to what you say he is trying to say. So, you must listen to him.

Continue, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa: …Dr Christine Kaseba, …

Hon. Government Backbenchers: For losing elections!

Mr Simuusa: … the entire Sata family and all Zambians on the death of our beloved President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. May his soul rest in peace.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for the opportunity to deliver the Policy Statement on the 2015 Budget for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. As we begin the debate on this ministry’s budget, I wish to reiterate the Patriotic Front (PF) Government’s commitment to the development of the agriculture sector. The agriculture sector still remains a strategic area of focus in promoting economic growth, reducing poverty and creating employment and wealth for many of our people.

Mr Chairperson, allow me now to highlight some of the key achievements of the ministry in 2014. 

The Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP)

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock targeted to provide input subsidies to support one million small-scale farmers with D-Compound …

Interruptions

Mr Chairperson: Order on both my left and my right.

Mr Simuusa: … fertiliser, Urea and seed for the 2014/2015 Agriculture Farming Season. The Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) was contracted to manufacture and supply a total of 106, 409 metric tonnes of D-Compound at a total cost of K596 million. The NCZ has completed the manufacture of the total quantity of this fertiliser ordered and has since been delivered to all districts. 

Mr Speaker, in addition, a total of 83,714 metric tonnes of top dressing fertiliser or Urea, in short, were included in the procurement plan for the 2014/2015 Agriculture Season of which 50,000 metric tonnes has been procured from Saudi Arabia at the cost of K113.6 million equivalent of US$17.75 million. 

The ministry also contracted local suppliers to supply 33,714.5 metric tonnes of Urea at the cost of K147.7 million. There was also carry-over stock of K18,111.5 metric tonnes of Urea from the 2013/2014 Agriculture Season which brings the total amount of top dressing fertiliser for this year to 101,826 metric tonnes.

 As of 1st December, 2014, 40,000 metric tonnes of imported Urea has been dispatched by rail from South Africa. Of this fertiliser, 20,000 metric tonnes have already arrived at the NCZ for onward distribution to the districts. Total Urea fertiliser distributed to the districts as of 30th November, 2014, is 56,886.5 metric tonnes, which is over 50 per cent of the requirement.

Mr Chairperson, furthermore, my ministry, through the FISP, has procured 11,603 metric tonnes of various seeds that include maize, sorghum, rice and groundnuts for distribution to small-scale farmers.

Crop Diversification

Mr Chairperson, in our quest to promote crop diversification in the country, my ministry has continued to promote programmes that will accelerate the implementation of our diversification strategy. As a result of concerted efforts, the 2013/2014 Agriculture Season recorded an increase in the production of various crops other than maize. For instance, rice increased by 10.9 per cent, millet by 27.4 per cent, groundnuts by 34.5 per cent, Irish potatoes by 53.5 per cent and Virginia tobacco by 23.2 per cent. 

Further, our country experienced the highest bumper harvest of maize ever recorded at 3.35 million metric tonnes. The major contributing factors to the bumper harvest are the good enabling policies of the PF Government such as the provision of input subsidies under the FISP, good distribution of rainfall and hard work from our farmers. 

Strategic Reserves

Mr Chairperson, the Government, through the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), has focused on the procurement of strategic food reserves. In view of the unprecedented bumper harvest, the FRA has procured 1,031,303.3 metric tonnes of maize and 1,115 metric tonnes of rice from small-scale farmers.

Mr Chairperson, in terms of payment to the farmers for the maize and rice that they delivered to the FRA, I am happy to report that considerable progress has been made, as per commitment. Funds and payments are being released in tranches as follows:

(a)    as I deliver this statement, 100 per cent payments for rice have been maid countrywide;

(b)    in the Western Province, 100 per cent payments have been made;

(c)    on the Copperbelt Province, 100 per cent of the funds required have been released and payments are ongoing. The province should be cleared by the weekend. This brings the number of provinces to three; 

(d)    in the North-Western Province, 100 per cent of the funds are being released this week and should be completed next week, to bring the provinces to four; and

(e)    At the moment, funds are being released to clear 100 per cent of the outstanding balances for selected districts which include Chipata. This will be done by mid week.

Mr Chairperson, I continue to call for patience among the hardworking farmers nationwide as we are committed, as a Government, to ensure that all outstanding monies and balances are paid to them. 

Mr Chairperson, in an effort to increase storage capacity for strategic food reserves, my ministry has continued to invest in grain storage infrastructure. In 2014, twenty-seven slabs have been upgraded into covered sheds, increasing our grain storage capacity by 117,000 metric tonnes, at a cost of K110, million. 

Livestock Development and Animal Health

Mr Chairperson, to prevent the spread of East Cost Fever (ECF), the ministry is constructing 187 dip tanks and rehabilitating 320 dip tanks countrywide. The dip tanks are at various levels of construction and will be completed by the end of the year. The ministry also vaccinated 519,152 cattle against Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD) in high risk areas in the Southern, Western, Central and Northern provinces. Currently, my ministry is vaccinating approximately 300,000 cattle against the Contagious Bovine Pleuropneumonia (CBPP) in the North-Western and Western provinces. My ministry has issued Statutory Instrument No. 24 of 2014, making vaccination against the ECF, Rabies, New Castle, and Anthrax and dipping against the ECF compulsory. In this regard, my ministry has scaled up vaccine production at the Central Veterinary Research Institute (CVRI) to support the implementation of the Statutory Instrument . In our quest to control Trypanosomiasis, which is spread by tsetse flies, we undertook ariel tsetse fly spraying campaigns in Sesheke District covering about 5,000 sq. m.

Mr Chairperson, during the year, cases of African Swine Fever (ASF) were confirmed in Mbala, Lusaka, Kasempa, and Kalomo Districts. I am glad to report that the disease has been brought under control. My ministry has intensified its ASF disease surveillance for early detection and control. Further, under livestock development, the ministry has continued rehabilitating and restocking livestock breeding centres countrywide. Through this intervention, 1,237 Boran and Brahman cattle and 680 Boer goats were restocked in seven breeding centres. 

Fisheries Development

Mr Chairperson, an increase has been recorded in aqua culture production from 12,988 metric tonnes, in 2013, to a projected production figure of 20,271 metric tonnes in 2014. Capture fisheries, however, continued to record a decrease in production, reducing from 76,214 metric tonnes, in 2012, to a projected production figure of 75,187 metric tonnes in 2014. This is due to over fishing, degradation of aquatic environments, illegal and unregulated fishing and climate change. 

Improved Extension Service Delivery 

Mr Chairperson, following the outbreak of Army Worms during the 2012/2013 Agriculture Season, the ministry embarked on strengthening the migratory pest disease surveillance and migration through the provision of pheromones and traps in five provinces prone to migratory pest attacks, and training of staff in migratory pest surveillance. In order to effectively plan and target extension service delivery, we embarked on the farmer registration exercise in sixteen districts in the Eastern, Central, Luapula, Northern, Muchinga, Copperbelt, North-Western, and Lusaka provinces. Further, 225 motor bikes were procured to strengthen extension service delivery.

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours. 

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the 
Chair]

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, they say once an Excellency, always an Excellency.

Laughter

Agriculture Research

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, in the area of research, my ministry conducted multi-location trials of root and tuber crops, grain such as maize, rice, sorghum and millet, tree crops, food legumes and oil seeds as well as conservation of plant genetic resources. Development and testing of water lifting devices for small-scale farmers in light of the changes in the weather pattern were also investigated. In addition, a number of trials were conducted to determine fertiliser suitable for different agro-ecological zones. 

Promotion of Improved Seed Varieties

Mr Chairperson, on the promotion of improved seed varieties, I am delighted to report that in this area, seed activities in various crops intensified throughout the country, resulting in the successful release of twenty-five varieties out of which fourteen are maize varieties. In addition, 66,878 hectares were under production of various seed crops valued at K653,911,450. This is expected to result in adequate volumes of maize and cotton seed for the 2014/2015 Season and Export Market. 

Irrigation and Development

Mr Chairperson, in our quest to assist the small-scale farmers to adapt to climate change and reduce their dependence on rain-fed agriculture, the ministry handed over three irrigation schemes at Nzenga, Sinazongwe, and Nega Nega. The three schemes have brought 793 hectares of land under irrigation, which will benefit 1,613 households.

Outlook for 2015

Mr Chairperson, I will now give the outlook for 2015. In 2015, the Government has proposed programmes and activities that will continue to address the constraints that hinder the development and growth of the sector. In order to achieve our aspirations in the agriculture sector, the Government has, in the 2015 Budget, allocated a total of K4.09 billion to the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock compared to K3.4 billion allocated in 2014. This represents a nominal increase of 35.5 per cent. This also represents 9.4 per cent of the total Budget allocation, which shows significant progress towards achieving the 10 per cent target set by the Maputo Declaration as being the minimum budget to be allocated to agriculture in African countries to ensure the necessary growth and development of the sector.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to take this opportunity to thank the Ministry of Finance or the hon. Minister of Finance for this increase which will allow my ministry to scale up interventions of the following programmes that will increase agricultural production and productivity:

Strengthen Extension Service Delivery

Mr Chairperson, the extension services will continue to be scaled up and strengthened to enable farmers to adopt better farming practices in order to achieve the agriculture diversification strategy. 

The Government will rehabilitate a total of eighty camp houses countrywide, procure a total 193 motorbikes and 125 extension kits meant to equip the extension staff. 

In addition twenty-two farmer training centres and six farmer institutes will be rehabilitated. A provision of K157.4 million has been allocated to support delivery of livestock, fisheries, veterinary and agricultural extension services in 2015. 

    Fisheries Development 

Mr Chairperson, the programme of fisheries development will focus on aquaculture management and development as well as capture fisheries management and development. In 2015, K60.7 million has been allocated to fisheries development. Particular attention will be given to the establishment of four aqua parks in Chipepo, Rufunsa, Kasempa and Mungwi. 

    Livestock Development 

Mr Chairperson, in 2015, the Government will scale-up livestock development. This will include the establishment of twenty-three one-stop service centres in selected districts, establishment of thirteen satellite artificial insemination centres and restocking of 800 animals in all the nine livestock breeding centres. 

In addition, the Government will distribute improved livestock breeds from the breeding centres to small scale livestock farmers countrywide. In order to achieve the above outlined development goals for livestock, the Government has set aside K96.5 million in this 2015 Budget. 

    Veterinary Services

Mr Chairperson, in 2015, the Government will intensify livestock disease prevention and control through the following actions:

(a)    vaccination of 480,000 cattle against Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD) and 500,000 against Contagious Bovine Pleuropneumonia (CBPP);

(b)    scaling-up the production of vaccines against Black Leg, anthrax, hemorrhagic  septicemia and Newcastle, to make them readily available for the farmers at the Central Veterinary Research Institute (CVRI);

(c)    construction of eighty-seven and rehabilitation of fifty-nine communal dip tanks; and 

(d)    clearing of 5,000 square kilometers of tsetse fly infested areas, especially the Zambezi Kwando areas, through aerial spraying. In other infested areas, the Government will use tsetse fly target methods. 

Mr Chairperson, the Government has set aside K56 million in the 2015 Budget to cater for provision of veterinary services.

    Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP)

Mr Chairperson, the Government is committed to providing inputs to small-scale farmers. In 2015, we are targeting to provide inputs to 1 million small-scale farmers. The total for the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) in 2015 is K1.083 million. The Government will also implement the e-voucher on a pilot basis …

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Simuusa: … in a selected number of districts which will provide a wider range of inputs. A total of K255 million has been provided for the piloting of the e-voucher programme. 

Operationalisation of the Warehouse Receipt System

Mr Chairperson, following the signing of Statutory Instrument No.59 of 2014, which operationalises the Agriculture Credit Act of 2010, the Government will facilitate the recruitment and certification of warehouse managers and publicising them through the Zambia Agricultural Commodities Exchange (ZAMACE) Limited. This will provide farmers with information on certified warehouse managers under the Warehouse Receipt System to be introduced next year. 

    Agriculture Training Institutions

Mr Chairperson, in order to ensure effective and high quality training of personnel in our agricultural training institutes, an allocation of K33 million has been made in the 2015 Budget. This allocation will cater for increased enrolment, rehabilitation and expansion of infrastructure and review of curricula at the various training institutions.

 Promoting Agricultural Production and Agro Processing through Matching Grants

Mr Chairperson, in our quest to promote agriculture production and agro processing among the small scale and emerging farmers, the Government will provide them with matching grants in collaboration with our co-operating partners. This facility is aimed at supporting innovative projects among the small scale and emerging farmers by the Government co-financing such projects with the farmers. 

The contribution by the farmers will range from 20 to 40 per cent while the Government contribution will range between 60 to 80 per cent. In 2015, 405,000 small scale livestock farmers in Southern, Eastern, Western, Lusaka, Central and Copperbelt Provinces will be supported. 

In addition, 75,000 household farmers growing beans, rice and cassava in Luapula, Muchinga and Northern Provinces, will receive matching grants. 

Mr Chairperson, this concludes my presentation of the policy statement for my ministry and it is now my wish to appeal to hon. Members of this House to support the 2015 Budget estimates for my ministry, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock and to remind them once again that once a Excellency, always an Excellency. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I stand to support the budget for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. 

Sir, as usual, the ministry has fallen short of the actual requirement of the agricultural sector budget. The 10 per cent which we are always talking about has not been achieved. I know that the hon. Minister has pushed the figures to appear as if this has been achieved. Alas, the biggest component of this budget is money for purchasing maize and the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP).

Mr Chairperson, I want to state that the position of farmers should not be underestimated. Farmers have not been paid, and yet when we talked about this early this year, we were told that there were sufficient funds to pay the farmers.

The hon. Minister talked about many districts, but did not mention a single district in the Southern Province. If you are going to talk about maize growing, you cannot leave Southern Province out of the picture. It seems that in your scope of plans, hon. Minister, you do not intend to pay farmers in the Southern Province. You need to pay them. Do not think that you will punish us by not paying them because you have much more to lose. The people of the Southern Province will not vote for you. 

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Muntanga: You can question what I am saying, but you will still not be voted for. 

How do you not pay the farmers till December? In the Eastern Province, you mentioned only Chipata. What about the other districts? You are so quick to mention districts on the Copperbelt because you know that there are very few farmers there. Talk about areas where there is actual growing of crop. Why are we failing to pay farmers? Why does the Government not come up with a static programme to reserve funds for strategic maize stock and make the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) a business entity? Stop spoon feeding it and save some money. 

The FRA should by now have decided to sell a certain amount of maize to replenish stocks. It can sell off what it has and have some money to buy new stock. Come next season, the FRA will line up for money from the Government. What does the FRA do with the money it is given every year? Why is it not able to account for it properly? Why should we buy excess every time? The only reason I can think of is that we do not have a proper understanding of what strategic reserves should be in this country. One minute, you decide that you want to buy 500,000 metric tonnes and half way through the process, you decide you actually want 1million tonnes. A lot of farmers who are suffering are the ones who are being cheated by business people. They sell their maize at lower prices to people who later sell to the FRA.  

Mr Chairperson, if this Government will let me, I would like to make a proposal. I would like to propose that it organises the FRA so that it does not buy maize from villagers. The Government can improve the co-operative industry so that the FRA buys for its strategic reserves from co-operatives only. At the time when it needs excess maize, it can look to a given co-operative for the supply of maize. When this is done, the FRA will not go to villages to collect maize and be owed money by the Government. 

Sir, these farmers are lending the Government money at no cost because it is not paying any interest at all. The farmers gave the Government maize in April and to date, it has not paid them. What interest will be given to the farmers? 

Mr Chairperson, the United Party for National Development (UPND) will ensure that there is general subsidy for maize and reduce the price of fertiliser. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, the FISP is prone to corruption. How does the PF Government choose to support 1 million out of 2 million farmers? That system is corrupt. It is causing farmers to fight to sale to the FRA because of the reduced price. The Government only wants to only give 50 per cent of the farmers, but the farmers that manage to receive this support use all sorts of corrupt systems. Why should the Government maintain a corrupt system? We will not maintain that. 

Sir, the Government is supposed to reduce the price of fertiliser and allow anyone who wants to farm to buy it. 

Mr Livune: Yes!

Mr Muntanga: The extension officers should teach and supervise the actual growing of crops. However, the extension staff is now being told to pick farmers as they wish. These officers are now specialising in “what fertiliser is there”. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock is involved in the distribution of fertiliser. Why should that be the case? 

Mr Chairperson, fertiliser companies have got the capacity to take fertiliser to the places where people need it. The price of fertiliser should be reduced and the people who will buy it are those who are serious farmers. As a result of the FISP, people who cannot even farm are pretending to be farmers. They pay K500 for the fertiliser and take it to the famers and tell them to farm and give them the produce in return. 

Sir, last year, we talked about the need to distribute fertiliser on time. We imported fertiliser from Saudi Arabia via the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA). The arrangement at the time was that Omnia and Niombo would go to the Southern Province. The wagons offloaded in Serenje to take the fertiliser to other places and it made sense for the fertiliser to drop there. However, this year, fertiliser is being moved via Durban. The Government has moved Omnia and Niombo from the Southern Province to this end even though they already have fertiliser in stock.

Mr Chairperson, the fertiliser the Government ordered has not arrived which means that it is subjecting the farmers in the Southern Province to late supply of fertiliser this year. We are told that 20,000 bags of fertiliser have arrived, but no fertiliser has been offloaded anywhere between Livingstone and Kafue. The Government has decided to rail the fertiliser straight to Kafue and redistribute backwards. It is offloaded off the train in Kafue, loaded back on trucks and is sent back to the Southern Province. What sort of planning is that?

Mr Sianga: Poor planning.

Mr Muntanga: Eventually, the Government will say that it has no money to pay the transporters …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, I would like to apologise to Hon. Muntanga who is debating so well. However, is Hon. Muntanga, who is very knowledgeable, in order to spend so much energy educating people who do not know anything about what he is talking about? More so that they will not even be able to use the knowledge he is imparting since they will be leaving office on 20th January, 2014? Is he in order?

Laughter 

Mr Chairperson: Hon. Muntanga, you may continue.

Laughter 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Shame!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that it is important …

Interruptions 

Mr Muntanga: … to look at the way we supply fertiliser to the farmers. Fertiliser cannot be transported through the Southern Province until Kafue and have it reloaded on trucks to take it backwards. If, therefore, what the Government did in Serenje made sense, then, why not stop wagons in Choma and distribute fertiliser there as was done in Serenje? 

Sir, we have been told about livestock restocking. I have heard the hon. Minister talk about forming restocking centers which are similar to cattle development or cattle financing arrangements. I want to state that when our time comes, we will have a grazer scheme for cattle. If you do not understand what a grazer scheme is, I will explain a bit. The scheme will enable the Government to get animals and give them to those farmers who want to rear cattle. The farmers will rear those animals on an arrangement of a standard distribution of twenty-one animals, which will include one bull, sixteen females and four oxen. The farmer who will rear those animals will not be paid because those animals are his. After a year when the calves have given birth, the Government can take the male cattle, the steers, to pay off the loan. Thereafter, the cattle can be taken to another farmer on the grazer scheme. The Government will be able to pay off its loan in three or four years through such arrangements and the farmers will have their cattle. Through this scheme, the Government would have given the animals to the people.

Mr Chairperson, the Government will not spend money the way it is doing at the moment. Chishinga Ranch was destroyed and then re-fenced and managers who want to be paid placed there. In addition to that, the Government hopped to give whatever animals were placed there after they reproduced. Give the grazer scheme to the farmers immediately. When we are in charge, we will give animals to those who want to rear cattle and tell them how to keep it. That is real stocking. That is real stocking and supporting of farmers as opposed to what is being talked about.

Mr Chairperson, the issue of fisheries is very serious. We have stopped supporting fisheries, and yet they are the easiest to help. Farmers can make fish ponds anywhere. Those that want to fish where there are rivers can do so through caged fish farming, which can be supported. You must stop telling the story of depleting fisheries all the time. Let the people rear the fish. You can breed fish and they will be able to sell. Caged fish farming is a big business in Zimbabwe now, but we have so many rules that restrict it. We can we do away with these rules and enable farmers to participate.

Sir, in relation to disease control, I heard the hon. Minister say that vaccinations will made compulsory. Hon. Minister, how will you enforce this? What I know is that you have scheduled diseases that the Government ensures must be vaccinated against. If you are not going to reduce the costs of the vaccines, then, there is no way you will force any farmer to vaccinate their animals. 

Mr Chairperson, during our time, we will ensure that vaccines are available at meaningful prices. Further, there will be no need to make diseases control area big. You can group farmers who will have to accept to follow all the rules that need to be followed for disease control. When you have achieved this, then you can talk about exporting your beef to Europe, but not at the moment. We need to follow procedure.

Mr Chairperson, we have talked about the rehabilitation of dip tanks so many times, but the money has not released. Farmers are ready to build dip tanks. Hon. Minister, if you allow farmers to build their own dip tanks, it will be so much cheaper. These small contractors that the Government is engaging to build dip tanks want a lot of money, and yet, for instance, Siyachitema Dip Tank is already damaged. The ministry engaged some useless contractor who has no idea about building dip tanks. I think this contractor just heard that at the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, companies were bidding for contracts to build dip tanks and he went there and managed to get that job. Hon. Minister, if you can, you should involve cattle farmers in these activities so that they build dip tanks at a cheaper price. All you should to do is ensure that the materials for such facilities are reasonably priced. If that is done, cattle farmers will fully participate. If you highly price these materials, the dip tanks will not be built.   

Mr Chairperson, the other issue is about irrigation. For us in the UPND, we do not want to try out these small irrigation schemes. We will have a big program of making dams throughout the country. Where this water is needed, you should make dams. This project does not need a lot of money. Once water is available, the farmers will participate in building these dams instead of the hon. Minister talking about things that we cannot even understand. Mind you, a farmer has a choice. If you provide what is good for a farmer, he will appreciate and not the way things are being done. 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I also rise to support the Budget of the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, but with the following comments. I think it is time that we gave serious attention to the whole issue of better management of our country in all the different sectors of our economy. That is the challenge of our time. At this point, I would like to invite the staff in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, who are so well-trained, to revisit a book written way back in the 1960s by a French Agronomist called Reine Duomo. That book was called, “False Start in Africa.” That is a book which we read when we were undergraduates at the University of Zambia (UNZA). Looking back over the past fifty years, the way we have managed our sectors has, indeed, been a false start in Africa. We can also say a false start in Zambia too. 

Mr Chairperson, we need what I would call a big bang approach in the agriculture sector in order to make a difference. What we have been doing over the past fifty years has been piecemeal in the different sectors of the agriculture system. For example, when we look at cattle development in our country, the area that really is ideal and good for cattle development in Zambia is the stretch from Namwala, Kazungula, Mwandi, Sesheke, Shang’ombo up to Senanga. That stretch can feed the entire Zambia and the other parts of Southern Africa. It can also export beef into other markets outside Zambia. Where is the big bang for cattle development in that particular region of our country? 

Mr Chairperson, what are we doing about feeder roads, marketing facilities, dip tanks, disease control and other facilities such as veterinary extension services, training of the local farmers in the knowledge and skills of cattle management? We are tinkering all over the country putting dip tanks even where there is plenty of water. Does that make sense? We need a big bang approach. This is the approach which can contribute to employment generation. Imagine how many jobs and industries would be created in that particular stretch of land if that region was to be earmarked as our cattle development region in this country. 

Sir, we all know that in the entire country, Kalabo is a district with the highest production of rice. What are we doing to create a big bang in rice production through feeder roads, training of the farmers, marketing facilities and milling facilities to add value to rice so that within a period of five years to ten years, poverty is addressed in Kalabo? That is the big bang we need. Those officers who are in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock are too highly trained to provide this kind of direction. They have all the knowledge, but are not providing the big bang. They are doing it piecemeal, which is unacceptable. 

Mr Chairperson, Mumbwa, Kalomo and Katete are the pillar districts in our country for the production of cotton which is important for our industries. Where is the big bang for cotton production to provide all the necessary facilities? The Eastern Province is very rich in the production of groundnuts, but where is the big bang for that? Mbala and Isoka are topping the list in beans production, but where is the big bang? These are the critical issues we should be raising as a nation. We should not be doing things piecemeal or on a political expedient basis. We should not be pleasing people by tinkering here and there. That is not acceptable. Let us look broadly and lay a foundation for 2064. All of us in here will not be there in 2064. We shall be dead. 

Laughter

Prof. Lungwangwa: We, therefore, need to lay a foundation which will be a pride for our grandchildren. Both the politicians and the technocrats in the ministries must have that big bang view of our development. That is very important. The agriculture sector must be realigned or redesigned in order to have that big bang. That is the only way we can meaningfully, realistically, reasonably and rationally address the rural/urban disparity. This is the way we can address poverty in our country. We need to change the way we manage our resources in our country. We need creative, innovative and imaginative thinking in our policies so that we can make a difference and lay a foundation for better management of our country. That is important. 

Sir, another aspect is inequity. Has the ministry addressed itself to the critical issue of inequity? For example, if you look at maize production and the buying of maize by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), you will have provinces like Luapula Province and the Western Province where, probably the whole year, the FRA is only spending K9 million for the entire province to buy maize and in other provinces, they are spending K200 million to K300 million. 

That is total disparity in the way that the agriculture productivity system is operating. The question is: What should be your focus in terms of diversifying into other crops in the agriculture sector which can uplift such regions in our country so that people living there can have access to resources? It is unacceptable that some people are getting more while others are getting less of the public money that is being spent. 

Mr Chairperson, we know that cassava can be grown on a large scale in places like the Western, Luapula, parts of Muchinga and Northern provinces. Where is the big bang for cassava growing so that those people can actually access the FRA resources which we will vote for in this House? Think about these things. Look into the eyes of the farmers in such areas. Look into the eyes of the children who are supported by those poor peasant farmers and create avenues which will enable them access resources. That is very important and the market is there. For example, Angola is yearning for products such as cassava, millet, maize, fish and meat from Zambia. Therefore, what are we doing to create a big bang in the production of such crops and products? We need to research where the big bang in agriculture is so that our small-scale farmers can access knowledge very easily and we have Information Communication Technology (ICT) facilities which can easily enable our farmers in the villages to access such knowledge for productivity.

Sir, it is unfortunate that fifty years after independence, a number of school leavers and Grade 9 drop outs are villagers when fifty years ago, most of the villagers were dominantly illiterate people who are our parents. Now, what kind of transformation in the agriculture sector is being brought by those villagers who are actually school leavers and what impact is the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock having on those villagers with basic education that can go a long way in transforming the agriculture sector? Let us be holistic and look at issues from these critical perspectives so that we can have a new start in our country and can revisit Reine Dumour and avoid the false start in Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu (Mwandi): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to debate this Vote.

Sir, where is the big bang in agriculture? I think that is the question that the Professor has left us with.

Mr Chairperson, I have always been concerned about the poverty levels in this country and the agriculture sector can easily fight these poverty levels that we are seeing in the country. Agriculture is a culture that people are used to and there is nothing new that we are trying to show our people because the livelihood of our people has been dependent on agriculture since time immemorial. However, there are no linkages in the sectors, for example, agriculture is a stand-alone sector and education is also a stand-alone sector. Therefore, we do not seem to have linkages which can actually bring the big bang that the Professor talked about so that our people can now create livelihoods for themselves.

Sir, before we can think of creating wealth in the country, I think we have to help our people grow their own food because we, who have travelled around this country, know that the poverty levels are very high. Japan has a large population and does not have enough land, but it is the ninth producer of rice in the whole world. However, in Zambia there is so much land …

Mr Mbulakulima: And water.

Dr Kaingu: … and water, but we buy rice from Japan. Is that not shameful?

Mr Muchima: Shame!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, when Hon. Hamududu was debating on the budget for the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health, he talked about the low nutrition levels in this country. Why should we have low nutrition levels in the country when we are able to grow cow peas and sorghum and particularly that the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health has the Food Security Pack Programme through which it gives out cow peas to the peasant farmers? As Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa stated, maybe, it is because of a lack of proper planning by the Government. Now that we, the owners of these programmes, are coming back …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mushanga: When?

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: On 20th January, 2015, we will come back either as an alliance …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: … or as the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD)

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: We are coming back …

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: … whether our colleagues are going to wear some other clothes …

Mr Mwanza: Not from the archives.

Dr Kaingu: My elder brother who interjected behind me even looks older than Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda.

Mr Livune: Question!

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Anyway, that was on a light note.

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, although we need to grow food, another way of transforming the agriculture sector is by revising the education system because it is too academic. As Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa stated, we have so many school leavers and Grade 9 drop outs in the villages, but they are not engaged in the agriculture sector because clubs such as the Young Farmers Club which equipped us with farming skills and other programmes have been phased out in schools so our education system is too academic.

Sir, Rudolf Steiner came up with a school called a World of Schools. I am sure the hon. Minister of Education knows that. This is where the learners come together with the teachers and there are no marks given. Simply, all you want to see is your livelihood and sustainability. That is all you focus your attention on, but we do not have that. Instead, we have a situation where people go into the board rooms, come up with new programmes and take to our people and ask them to implement them. They will not be engaged. 

It is better to study. Go to Mwandi and see how they grow and catch fish. Buy into that programme and develop it. That is what we want. Go to Mwandi and see how we keep our cattle and then buy into that programme and develop it. That is what will help and sustain our people. 

Mr Chairperson, as Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa has already said, it is shameful to learn that, in this country, it is not only groundnuts that we can grow in the Eastern Province, but anything else. There we can grow tobacco and other crops. Why are we failing to generate wealth?

Mr Chairperson, I feel like …

Hon. Members: Crying!

Dr Kaingu: For a lack of a better term indeed.

Sir, let me now talk briefly about the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). From the time this agency was introduced by ourselves, it has never been adequately budgeted for and we wonder why. After having distributed the inputs, we know that at the end of the season, there will be a bumper harvest. If you calculate that, you are going to have three million bags, why should you allocate K500 million in the Budget? Unless somebody somewhere does not like the FRA, why should we allocate little money to it when we know how much money we need to buy the crop? Now, here we are going with a begging bowl in our hands to the banks in search of money for the FRA to buy the maize. I do not think the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock will find the K900 million deficit that he is talking about. If it took him the whole year to find K500 million, I do not see how he will find K900 million within two weeks. It means that he is not telling us the truth. 

Mr Chairperson, why not run the FRA as a business, as Hon. Muntanga said? Give it money for seed and let it be on its own. However, the Government wants to manipulate it. The Government wants to politicise the FRA and our farmers. We know that democracy does not go well where people are self-sustaining. So, the Government wants our people to be poor so that it can manipulate them.

Mr Kambwili: Bushe ama points of order eko yali?

Dr Kaingu: You will speak for yourself when you stand up. Do not speak whilst you are seated.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: So, as I wind up my debate, Mr Chairperson, I wish to echo that it is really shameful for all of us that with so many natural resources that this country cannot grow its own food. However, as a senior hon. Member of Parliament, I insist and I am positive that the answer lies in an hon. Member of Parliament. If we can recapitalise the office of the Member of Parliament and give the FRA enough resources, I am so positive that we could fight the poverty levels that we are seeing in this country. The poverty levels and unemployment in this country are very serious to those who call themselves jubilee riggers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Vote. On behalf of the people of Kaputa, I wish to support the budget line for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock.

Sir, I agree that agriculture is a very strategic department or ministry of our country in order to bring about the growth in our national production. It promotes the development of our people, it also contributes to the reduction of poverty levels and also puts money in the rural farmers or poor farmers’ pockets as they farm.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to make comments on some areas, some which my colleagues have ably made reference to, but I have my comments as follows.

Sir, on the Fertiliser Input Support Programme (FISP), I wish to state that our hon. Minister and the ministry did very well in terms of planning and ensuring that the fertilisers reached our farmers in the required time that is before the commencement of the farming season. However, the efficiency within which this programme was done leaves much to be desired. Fertiliser, which is produced by the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ), was moved to the districts in very good time by September or October.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: However, as I speak now, there are some areas like Kaputa where fertiliser has not reached the farmer’s door step. We are lucky, this year, because the rainy season has started very late. This cannot be used as a barometer. The rains are supposed to start before or around 24th October or in some areas even as early as the first or second week of October. Therefore, if fertilisers are not with the farmers by the beginning of November, it does not matter what we have done at the NCZ, how we have moved it, but the result is that the farmers should have that fertiliser as they start planting, especially the D-compound. Colleagues, D-compound is not a fertiliser you must use when your maize has germinated. D-compound is a compound that must be in the soil before germination as it is a basal dressing.

Mr Muchima: Yes!

Mr Ng’onga: It must be there at the time you are planting or even before you have planted. However, today, people let their maize germinate and when it has four leaves is when they apply D-compound. You are not using that compound the way it is supposed to be used. Therefore, when we plan and deliver, this particular compound must be in the farmer’s shed about September and October should reach the farmers before the beginning of the rains.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Therefore, anything we have done falls far short. I am sure the technocrats in the ministry are hearing. It does not pay to say we have transported very early and come November, the farmers have not got that fertiliser. It does not pay.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: We can as well take that fertiliser to be used in the coming year.

Mr Chairperson, the other area that I want to look at is the issue on the buying of this maize by the Government. My colleagues have ably handled this issue. However, I would like to say that we can do well both as a ministry and as a Government to free the maize buying programme so that we give more powers or support to the private sector. Let the Government not hold on to these portfolios. 

Mr Chairperson, my colleagues have talked about the Government’s heavy participation. Let us empower the private sector. If we deliberately support some businessmen in the agriculture sector, our fellow Zambians, to grow to levels where they can handle this sector, I think this issue of farmers coming to complain to the Government around November or December that they have not received their money will not be there. The Government worker and the hon. Minister of Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, in particular, will be at peace because this particular sector would have been given to those who are always dealing with the same programme. They know when the fertilisers must come, they know when the fertilisers must be distributed and they know when the seeds must be given to farmers. Let the Government put resources in those areas and then we will be making progress.

Mr Muchima: Tell them!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, I now wish to talk about the Zambia Agricultural Research Institute. Again, when we look at the budgetary figure for this institute, I think the support that we give to our research is not sufficient. We all know that no country has developed without a strong research background.

History tells us that, in the past, there was a big programme for research and development and we can see this from the infrastructure that is dotted all over the country. So, this research must continue being supported by coming up with new and innovative programmes every year. 

Mr Chairperson, if one went to a place like Mount Makulu Research Centre, you would see that the centre lacks experienced people. A number of them have been retired and we do not have a way of recapturing them back into the system. So, this is an area which we must focus on. We must improve and get the Zambia Agricultural Research Institute and its affiliates to come on board. They are an important part in agriculture production not only as end users, but also these are the people who will be in the drive. They know the varieties, materials and conditions that the Government needs to focus on for us to have the desired output. So, if we neglect or do not allocate enough resources to this particular sector, then, we are definitely just fighting the fire which we should have quenched when it first started.

Mr Chairperson, I want to praise and thank those who have been involved in the seed control and certification programmes for many years. This country has materials that are needed in the region. It has almost all the seed varieties and can, therefore, compete on an international level. This is an area where more resources must be channeled. If we ever suffer the consequences of a disaster such as a drought or floods, this is an area which we can depend on in terms of agriculture production because of the work that is being done at Mount Makulu. Therefore, when you visit and find that they are not able to go round and check the seeds that are being tested, then, the country will be losing out on the quality of what is being produced. The base has already been done. It is the money in our Budget that should support them so that at the end of the day, we have a seed control and certification institute that is able to stand with the modern technologies that we want at the moment.

Sir, allow me to briefly comment on our fisheries. I know that, as a country, we are now a net importer despite having all the necessary conditions and resources that are required to be an exporter of the fish. Again, it is basically because of the amount of support or resources that we dedicate to this particular sector. When you look at agriculture, you know that this is an industry that drives the economies of all the countries, including Zambia. We have been talking about agriculture being the cornerstone of our economy. However, I would want the hon. Minister of Finance, if it is possible, to allocate 15 to 20 per cent of our Budget to agriculture and see how the other ministries that are connected to agriculture will perform. I know, for sure, that those who are in processing will benefit. I also know that those who are in transportation and manufacturing will also benefit. I know the resources are limited, but we could try this out. Agriculture supports over 80 per cent of our people. Therefore, when we talk about resources going to agriculture, it must get that priority since it supports 80 per cent of our people and that is what our economy needs.

Sir, coming back to fishing, we need to allocate resources to this particular sector so that we can promote, especially, the private sector and the small-scale farmers who can be in groups. For instance, in Mazabuka, there are small out-grower schemes at Zambia Sugar Plc. So, the members of these schemes have been able to reap the benefits that surround a big enterprise. This can happen in fishing too. If you go to the Northern Province, you will find a company called Mpende Fisheries in Nsumbu on Lake Tanganyinka, with a lot of technology and knowledge. There are farmers around Nsumbu who can actually be equipped to produce and grow fingerings, multiply the fish and then sell it to Mpende Fisheries, which has the capacity to move it to the urban areas where there is a bigger market. That way, production will go up. The same thing can happen on Lakes Mweru and Bangweulu, on the waters of Chambeshi Flats and Chambeshi River. So, in terms of water bodies, this country is well endowed and the only thing we lack is deliberate support in terms of financing these particular programmes so that at the end of the day, it should not take us more than three years to turn things around and become a net exporter of fish and fish products.

Mr Chairperson, before I wind up, I want to talk about extension services, which cut across the agriculture production sectors. When you talk about crops, you also talk about livestock and fisheries. So, there is a need to strengthen the extension services. The hon. Minister has made reference to the fact that eighty housing units will be built and a few motor bikes to be bought. However, we are far from achieving the ratio that we need. Can you imagine one single farmer visiting 400 small-scale farmers? It just cannot work, and so we need to reduce that ratio so that each particular extension officer with the knowledge is visiting, maybe, less than fifty farmers. That way, he can manage to meet a particular number of farmers within a week and impart them with the knowledge that they need. So, at the end of it all, we need the extension services to be amplified and given the resources.

Sir, in conclusion, the National Agriculture Information Services (NAIS), which I believe is known by everybody here, from the programmes it presents on radio, is extremely important because it is entrusted with spreading the good messages about agriculture. It informs the masses about what is in season and what is out of season. So, if we do not empower the NAIS, and limit it only to the radio programme, then, we have missed the boat.

Sir, I hope that those who are entrusted with the responsibility to share the resources can look at this department and ministry, in particular, and ensure that agriculture is allocated far more than the 10 per cent that we have been allocating to it. We will, then, see this country making strides.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Chairperson, I would like to add a word, on behalf of the people of Kazungula District, towards this Vote. Kazungula is predominately an agriculture district. However, for a long time now, this Patriotic Front (PF), Poor Failure, Government has failed us.

Sir, it is important to recognise the importance of agriculture in our lives. The first thing that comes to mind is the fact that to-date, our farmers in Kazungula are not paid for their produce for last year.

Mr Muntanga: Sure?

Mr Livune: Sir, the planting season will soon be history and our farmers have nothing to talk about. Under the PF Government, these farmers have suffered. They have come to tell me that the PF Government must not be allowed to continue in office because it is making them poorer than it found them. We were better people before the PF came in.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Mr Chairperson, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is controlled by this Government, and so, there is no way it can fail to find money to pay us. That money is not as huge as what the Government has been wasting on by-elections. The word is very clear. Our farmers want their money like yesterday.

Sir, in that part of this country, we are also livestock farmers and the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock has been promising many things to the people of Kazungula. As I speak, the people of Simukombo are waiting for a borehole. They have a dip tank, but they have no water to use to eradicate the tick bone disease. We have been waiting, but that is not being done.

Mr Chairperson, during a by-election in Sikute Ward, the PF told lies or was so economical with the truth by stating that when voted into office, it would construct dams and dip tanks with boreholes for the people in that area. That has not happened up to now. Our colleagues in the PF are not realistic and enjoy being economical with the truth.

Sir, this House approved money in the 2014 Budget for the construction of dams and dip tanks with boreholes. To date, in Kazungula, we are still waiting for that to happen and the year is ending. Nothing has happened. Dams have not been constructed in Simango, Nyawa and Mbuba because the money that was approved for this purpose has not been released by this Government. 

Mr Chairperson, the people of Kazungula cannot say anything good about this Government because of its zero performance. This is why we are saying the PF should get out office quickly. It is important to realise that there are many things happening in towns in terms of development. However, those of us in rural areas are not interested in all of this. Our needs are very specific and they have to do with agriculture. When our agriculture is affected, we cannot afford to smile around as if we are happy about it. There is a saying where I come from that “Eno mwabunya, tabo tamu votele.” That is what we say because of suffering and it means no one will vote for pathological liars.

Mr Chairperson, as I terminate my debate, allow me to appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock has been praising him on the Floor of this House for releasing money to do one or two things, but he can stop praising him because he has not released the money for dams and dip tanks. I, therefore, appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance to release that money so that we can have these facilities in our areas.

Mr Chairperson, with those very few words and with the saying from Kazungula that, “Aba bantu babunya lwendo ulu”, I terminate my discussion.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for this privilege accorded to me to debate this Vote. I will be very brief.

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order, on my left!

Mr Mtolo: First and foremost, I would like to thank all the other debaters. I think they debated very well, including Hon. Ng’onga. He actually debated well despite being from the Ruling Party. I think that is the way things are supposed to be and I thank him for that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Sir, I will start with talking about maize. I think I have debated on maize a number of times. This is because I have handled maize for a very long time in my life. I think we should stop demonising maize. Zambians are used to growing maize and have actually become experts in this field.

Mr Muchima: Correct!

Mr Mtolo: Zambians have both a comparative and competitive advantage in maize production. So, to change them from growing this beautiful crop, which is our staple food, is actually slapping ourselves in the face.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister should realise that growing maize is not the problem. The problem is with marketing.

Mr Muchima: And management.

Mr Mtolo: I would, therefore, encourage him to visit one of the most liberal countries on earth where agriculture has been liberalised to a very large extent. This is the United States of America (USA). America has what is called the United States Grain Council (USGC). This is an institution with a lot of workers. It has more than a thousand workers who do nothing, but try to change the world’s perception of American grain. That is what we are not doing in Zambia. 

Sir, let us have a deliberate marketing policy in order to export our maize. I think at a time when our production figures are high, we need to send groups to the east, central and southern Africa to look for markets for our crops. Our maize is wanted in Tanzania. Therefore, why should we be stuck with it and say maize is a bad product? If our maize is wanted in Malawi, why should we be complaining about it? The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) is a beautiful market for our crops. What are we doing to exploit that market? 

So, instead of us coming here every year and talking about the same things, we would like to see the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock become more proactive. Let us penetrate the DRC market. This is one market that can take up almost half of our surplus produce without difficulties. So, why are we not utilising it? Like I said, I think the problem lies in the marketing of our maize. 

Sir, we want to talk about maize as if it is an undesirable crop, and yet all of us in this room will probably consume something with maize in it by the end of the day. So, maize is not a bad product. It is the way we are managing it that is bad. We actually ought to be ashamed of ourselves that fifty years down the line, we still have not mastered the art of selling maize. Surely, does it mean that all Zambians are incapable? I do not think so. It is the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock which has to take the blame.

Interruptions

Mr Mtolo: Sir, the second issue I would like to talk about is the Government’s involvement in agriculture and its predictability. In the Eastern Province, we are producing a lot of tobacco, but I can assure you that, as at now, the farmers of the Eastern Province are full of anxieties. They do not know how the marketing of their produce will go. I think it is the responsibility of the Government to help in the predictability of the way that produce will be marketed. 

Sir, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) does a fantastic and commendable job in maize marketing. It lets the farmers know where, how much and what it will buy in the marketing season. However, I think it is the ministry which fails the farmers because, up to now, farmers have not yet been paid. This is actually the main reason I was prompted to stand up to debate. As we are talking, there are innocent farmers in Chipata who are in police cells, which I think is absolutely bad. They are in police cells just for asking for their payment.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Mtolo: Yesterday, they were chased in the town of Chipata like thieves and then picked and locked up in cells.

Mr Muntanga: Sure?

Mr Mtolo: What type of country and Government is this? 

Mr Muntanga: Is that true?

Mr Mtolo: It is very true. The hon. Minister of Home Affairs is here and can attest to that. We have farmers locked up in cells for asking for their money. Why are we encouraging people to go into production if we cannot buy their produce, but end up arresting them? Farmers have been arrested in Kasama, Chipata, Chadiza …

Mr Chipungu: Even in Serenje.

Mr Mtolo: … and now I am hearing even in Serenje. Surely, how can we be doing this to innocent farmers? It is actually a crime against humanity and is not right.

Interruptions

Mr Mtolo: Sir, the other issue I would like to talk about is that the PF got into power because it promised jobs. More than 60 per cent of Zambians are involved in agriculture. If there is an industry or field where we can easily get capital from, it is in agriculture. We have the Zambia Co-operative Federation (ZCF) which, ten or fifteen years ago, used to be one of the major employers through its co-operatives. It is still there waiting to be used. What are we doing about that? 

This institution can provide a very big avenue of employment in this country. The ministry is, however, just looking and not utilising it. It is important that the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock takes time to reflect on this position and see how this institution can help improve the employment situation in this country.

The other issue I would like to talk about is fertiliser. This fertiliser is going to see the PF out of power if it continues getting involved in it. Keep away from fertiliser and allow more people to engage in the fertiliser business. Only then will prices come down. Do not allow only two or three companies to run the fertiliser industry but, maybe, five or up to ten companies. In that way the prices will come down because they will compete amongst themselves. 

Mr Chairperson, I am challenging the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to come up with figures here and tell the nation the truth about the cost the Government incurred in importing fertiliser because, to-date, we have fertiliser in Tanzania marooned in sheds. Who is paying for that storage? What this occurrence has taught us is that, as a Government, keep away from this business of importing fertiliser. Let other people who are experts in this industry do it. Do not destroy the private sector when it is strong. There were companies here which were dealing with fertiliser and they were getting to almost being perfect, but because of the Government’s involvement, they are being crowded out in the process. In the end, we come up with a real mess in the fertiliser sector.

Sir, finally, I am a very disturbed Member of Parliament coming from the Eastern Province …

Mr Muntanga: Eh!

Mr Mtolo: … because when we have a problem with cattle, the whole country unites to eradicate that disease or problem, but we have innocent people who rear animals like pigs. The Government has no budget line whatever to try to resolve the problem with the East Coast Fever in the Eastern Province. How can we have a ministry that sees that there is a problem, and yet does nothing about it? Is it impossible for Zambia to work in collaboration with Malawi, Tanzania and other neighbouring counties to eradicate this disease? This is a simple disease which we all know about. We come here and there is no budget line. We have highly educated members of staff at the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock, most of whom I know and are my friends. How can they draw up a budget without including eradication of that small problem which the pigs of Eastern Province have? It is actually a big shame. I think we should look at things in a holistic manner and deal with them properly.

Sir, for me to continue talking on the other issues, I think I will be merely repeating myself, but suffice to say that Zambia has seen, year after year, increased production in maize. I think what President Ruphiah Banda started …

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: His Excellency, Mr Ruphiah Banda, was the initiator of these surplus production figures in maize …

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: … and I would like the current Government to take note and make sure that it continues with what was started and is a good programme. 

Sir, with those very few remarks, I would like to support this Vote on the Floor.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, allow me to start by thanking all the hon. Members of the House for their contribution to the debate on this Vote. Allow me also to just state that all the issues that have been raised have been taken care of. 

Mr Chairperson, just a quick comment on Hon. Muntanga’s contribution on the 10 per cent Maputo Declaration and the 9.4 per cent that I reported as being contribution of the budget to agriculture. To be fair, when we talk about agriculture, we have to look at it in its entirety.

Mr Muntanga: Yes.

Mr Simuusa: You cannot remove money going to the Zambia National Service (ZNS), for example, in agriculture and money going to prisons in agriculture. You remove that and say it is not a contribution to agriculture. Even the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP), Mr Chairperson, is contribution to agriculture. So, when we are calculating the contribution to the budget, all these figures must be added because that is contributing to agriculture development in the country. Hence, we got 9.4 per cent. This shows that we are moving steadily to achieve the Maputo Declaration and we are doing far better than a lot of countries in Africa.

Mr Chairperson, there are a lot of comments on the payment to farmers. Once again, allow me to repeat or re-emphasise that we, as a Government, are paying farmers. So far, three provinces have been cleared. The fourth one is currently being cleared and by next week, we will be on the fifth province. The Southern Province is on the schedule of payments. I just used Chipata as one of the districts being paid this week. The Southern Province is also among the provinces being paid. 

Mr Chairperson, I promised that I would come with a statement to give details of how much and how we are proceeding with the payment process. I am very sure that by the time I come; over 50 per cent of the provinces would have already been cleared as per our commitment. Our farmers will appreciate what we, as the PF Government, are doing. What we want is to strengthen and empower the farmers.

Mr Chairperson, I do not understand the economics of Hon. Livune when he says his farmers are poorer due to this PF Government’s Food Reserve Agency (FRA) Programme. We have reached and bought more maize from his farmers and we have even given them a better price. This means that there is more money in their pockets, and yet he says they are now poorer than the before the PF came into power.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, those economics I fail to understand. I wish him to go back and re-do the numbers. He will find that actually, the money going into the farmer’s pocket, through this programme, is a huge difference and when we finish the payment, I know the farmers will start speaking out. Already, they have started appreciating what we are doing, as a Government, to empower them.

Hon. Ng’onga, all the fertiliser is being delivered as I am speaking now. There is just a bit remaining and it shall reach all the districts, including Kaputa and …

Dr Kaingu: The big bang.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa: That big bang, I promise to look for that book by Renard Moore, on the, “False Start in Africa”. Mr Chairperson, I agree with the professor that we need to look at agriculture holistically. That is why we have put money in the budget. Agriculture cannot be looked at in isolation. For it to succeed; you need all the infrastructure around. You cannot just start ploughing and farming if you do not have the roads, the electricity, the diesel and the infrastructure to support agriculture. As a Government, we recognise that matter and that is why we are involved in making sure that infrastructure is included and is part of the Budget.

Finally, Mr Chairperson, maybe, just to comment on the matter that Hon. Mtolo talked about as regards the fertiliser which is coming and what was said by Hon. Muntanga. When we say fertiliser is coming by rail, we learnt our lessons last year and that is why we are taking all the fertiliser to Kafue. From there, it is even quicker to put it on the train. It is actually put on the Zambia Railways train. The fertiliser is coming in on the international wagons. If we were to stop on the way, we would lose even more time. However, it is quicker with the current system. One day it is in Kafue and the following day it is back. This way, we are gaining more on time. This also applies to Hon. Mtolo. We have managed to collect all the fertiliser which was on the Tanzania-Zambia Railways Authority (TAZARA) and we have delivered it to its destination.

Mr Chairperson, on the Swine Fever and the pigs in the Eastern Province, this is time to work together. I would wish to just encourage Hon. Mtolo when he says that there is nothing the ministry is doing, that we do our part in making sure that we give the advice and work with the farmers. We go in there and try to spray and apply all the measures that we have learnt. It is team work. It does not help us if, as a ministry, we go there and put up all the measures of prevention. Then, when we leave, the farmers expect us to go back and keep their pigs clean and in a confinement. It is team work, let the farmers help and work as a team. They should keep their pigs secured because I know the pigs are left to run around freely. The pigs and surroundings are not clean and when the disease spreads, you say the Government is not doing anything. That is not fair. I would like to urge all the farmers, particularly those in the Eastern Province to control their pigs. Let us keep the pigs clean and work as a team to make sure that the Swine Fever is controlled in the Eastern Province and the whole of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, I think with these few words, I wish to thank all the Members and thank them, indeed, for supporting the Vote for the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock.

Dr Kaingu: You have no choice.

Mr Simuusa: No choice, no I did not have a choice.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 89/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/06 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Veterinary Services Department – K42,308,505).

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under Unit 02 Veterinary Services Unit, Programme: 1093 Inspections, Activity 041 Dip Wash Analysis, by the deletion of K2,103,499 and the substitution therefor of K1,921,225.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

VOTE 89/07 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Livestock Development Department – K35,483,145).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under Unit 01 Management and Co-ordination, Programme:1012 Infrastructure Development, Activity 250 Inspection of Livestock Establishments, by the deletion of K1,650,000 and the substitution therefor of K1,388,816.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.
Vote 89/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89/17 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Copperbelt Province – District Agriculture Coordinating Office – K21,877,870).

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under Unit 01 Ndola District; by the insertion of Programme: 1088 Human Resources and Management, Activity 010 Management and Coordination K40,000.

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly.

Vote 89/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimate.

Vote 89/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimate.

Vote 89/23 ordered to stand part of thee Estimate.

Vote 89/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimate.

VOTE 89/25 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Western Province – District Agriculture Coordinating Office – K33,624,322).

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1002, Activity 003 – Agricultural Shows – K32,051. This year, K10,000 was budgeted for this activity, but this money was not released entirely. May I know what happened to it? Only K4,000 was released. When Limulunga District Council organised an agricultural show, it had to go with a begging bowl to the community. What happened to the rest of the K10,000?

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Chairperson, I hope that I am on the right page, but …

Mr Chairperson: Order!

The question is from an item on page 1302, Programme 1002, and Activity 003 – Agricultural Shows – K32,051. Why was the whole K10,000 allocated for this activity for this year not released? Only K4,000 was released.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Chairperson, sorry, can the hon. Member repeat her question? 

Mr Chairperson: Order!

The question is about the item on page 1302, Programme 1002, Activity 003 – Agricultural Shows – K32,051. She said that only K4,000 was released out of the K10,000 which was allocated in the budget for this year. Why was that so?

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, we are looking at what we have budgeted for. We are not looking at actual expenditure. Therefore, there is a budget here of K10,000. Now, the question which relates to why only K4,000 was released is neither here nor there, but the hon. Member  will notice that we have increased the allocation for this activity to K32,051. Therefore, I will encourage the hon. Member to make sure that she follows the district and provincial offices to make sure that the whole amount allocated is released.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, how can I vote for this budget when the whole amount allocated to this item is not going to be released and the vote will just be an academic exercise? If the whole amount that I voted for last time was not released, how am I going to vote for this K32,051 the hon. Minister is talking about, when I know that it is just an academic exercise? 

Mr Simuusa: Mr Chairperson, like I said earlier, once a budget is produced like this, it is up to the Ministry of Finance and the Treasury to collect the money to fulfill this budget and release the money. Sometimes, 100 per cent of the money is not collected and the amount collected depends on the performance of the Ministry of Finance. Therefore, it may be the case that only K4,000 was collected to be given for this activity. Therefore, with this increased amount of K32,051, there is more money available to the hon. Member and the district to access, and I am confident that she will get it. Therefore, she should support the budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 89/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimate.

Vote 89/26 ordered to sand part of the Estimate.

VOTE 89/27 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Eastern Province – District Agriculture Coordinating Office – K22,071,991).

Mr Phiri (Mkaika): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1306, Activity 013 – Construction and Rehabilitation of Camp Houses (Livestock), Activity 034 – Construction and Rehabilitation of Dip Tank , Activity 045 – Construction of Livestock Service Centres, Activity 239 – Construction of Artificial Insemination Centre, Activity 404 – Construction of Chinjala Livestock Breeding Centre . There is no funding, in 2015, for all these activities. May I find out from the hon. Minister why that is so.

Mr Monde: Mr Chairperson, the non allocation of funds for the activities mentioned is due to the fact that the construction and rehabilitation of livestock camp houses, livestock service and breeding centres, artificial insemination centres and dip tanks are underway and are expected to be completed in 2014.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 89/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Mr Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the 
Chair]

Vote 89/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Chairperson, I indicated to speak. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Too late, my dear. 

You must catch my eye quickly because I am also quick. We move on. 

Laughter 

Vote 89/31 – (Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock – Luapula Province – District Agriculture Co-ordinating Office – K28,248,321). 

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendments: 

(i)    under Unit 04 Kawambwa District; by the insertion of Programme: 1222 Veterinary and tsetse Control Services, Activity 004 Control Livestock Diseases, K182,274; and

(ii)    under Unit 04 Kawambwa District; by the insertion of Programme: 1369 District Livestock Development, Activity 002 Livestock Extension, K221,184. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Amendment agreed to. Vote amended accordingly. 

Vote 89/31, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 76 – (Ministry of Youth and Sport – K89,332,950).

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Kambwili): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to present to this august House the ministerial policy statement in support of the 2015 Budget Estimates for the Ministry of Youth and Sport. 

The Ministry of Youth and Sport is in-charge of youth and sports policies, youth and sport development co-ordination and youth and sport organisation. Our mission statement is:

“To effectively promote and manage the development and implementation of youth empowerment and sports programmes in order to create economic opportunities and attain excellence in sports.”

Through this mission statement, the ministry provides leadership and policy guideline in the promotion of youth and sport development. 

Mr Chairperson, my ministry aims at increasing the number of modern sports infrastructure equipped with adequate sports equipment for enhanced performance and excellence in sports. Furthermore, my ministry aims at promoting the empowerment of youth with adequate skills and appropriate tools that will enable them to contribute to the sustainable socio-economic development of our country. 
In this regard, during the 2015/2017 Medium-term Expenditure Framework (MTEF), our focus will be the development of youth and sport infrastructure, identification and development of talent in sport, skills development, youth empowerment and employment creation. 

Mr Chairperson, allow me to briefly update the House on some of the major achievements in 2014 and the priorities for 2015.

Sir, in 2014, the ministry had an approved budget of K76,873,221.96 of which K10,064,602.05 were personal emoluments and K5,800,000 were grants to institutions. During this financial year, the ministry had reviewed and finalised the 2016 National Youth Policy and its implementation plan under the National Youth Development Council Act No. 144 of 1986. These reviews have been done in order to make them more responsive to the emerging needs of the youth and to bring them in tandem with international and regional commitments on youth development.

Mr Chairperson, in order to address the challenges of unemployment among the youth, the Government, through my ministry and the Ministry of Finance, in collaboration with other stakeholders, carried out a study on the situation of youth in Zambia which informed the formulation of an evidence-based action plan on youth empowerment and employment. The plan advocates and provides instruments and strategies for the mainstreaming of the creation of employment and empowerment opportunities for youth in all sectors.

Sir, skills development has been recognised worldwide as a surest means of creating self-employment. Skills training, coupled with entrepreneurship training, has the potential to provide the much-needed resource and capacity to drive the economy to its full potential. The Government, therefore, recognises higher education and skills development as critical in enhancing opportunities, competitiveness and contribution to social inclusion of the youth, decent jobs and poverty reduction among the youth. 

In this regard, my ministry has embarked on a robust infrastructure development programme to establish, at least, one modern youth resource centre in each district throughout the country. This is in line with the Patriotic Front (PF) Government’s policy of empowering the youth with lifelong vocational and life skills. In this respect, there has been progress on Phase I construction of Chililabomwe, Chama, Kafue, Luanshya, and Kalabo and on the upgrading of Chiyota, Kwilimuna and Chama Youth Resource Centres. Phase II construction of these resource centres shall continue in 2015.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has embarked on the development of Mwange Model Youth Development Centre in Mporokoso District, in the Northern Province. Mwange is being developed as a youth development centre which will provide skills straining and resettlement opportunities for the youth that wish to engage in agriculture and related activities. It is planned that small agro industries will be established in order to fulfill the cluster value-chain approach. 

Sir, so far, the land has been demarcated into three 518 hectare plots of which each beneficiary will be entitled to a 3 hectare plot. The ministry has paid the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation Limited (ZESCO) which is currently on site building a substation to connect the centre to the national grid. Furthermore, the Rural Roads Unit (RRU), under the Northern Province, has made progress in constructing access roads. Further, contracts for reconstruction of four student hostels, rehabilitation of workshops and classrooms and rehabilitation of the existing fifteen boreholes has been awarded and they are all already on site. 

Mr Chairperson, I am happy to inform the august House that fifty-six youths have, so far, been settled and the Government is targeting to settle over 500 youths at Mwange. It is the intention of the Government to replicate this in other provinces, as it has proven to be one of the most integrated and strategic interventions in youth employment.

Sir, in order to mitigate the challenges of startup capital for enterprise development amongst the youth, the Government established the Youth Empowerment Fund. Since 2012 when the PF took over office, the ministry has disbursed a total of K32,597,005.83 to 795 youth groups countrywide.

Mr Chairperson, in the area of sports, my ministry has prioritised the development of ultra modern sports infrastructure in order to increase access to sports participation and development. During 2014, the Government completed the construction of the National Heroes Stadium car park and access roads. Works on the rehabilitation of Maramba Stadium in Livingstone commenced. 

Sir, on international engagements, Zambia, in 2014, participated in the Africa Nations Champions (CHAN) qualifiers under 17 Women World Cup in Costa Rica, Common Wealth Youth Games in Glasgow, Africa Youth Games in Botswana and the Olympic Youth Games in Nanjing. Further, the senior Women’s National Football Team qualified to the 2014 Africa Cup of Nations in Namibia for the first time. 

Dr Kaingu: MMD

Mr Kambwili: The senior Zambia National Team has qualified, yet again, to the Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON) Equatorial Guinea 2015.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, I am pleased to state that the budget for the ministry has increased by 11 per cent from K76.8 million, last year, to 86.3 million next year. Therefore, the ministry will accelerate its stride in achieving youth and sports development through various priority programmes. 

Sir, under youth development, the focus will be to continue empowering the youth with lifelong and entrepreneurial skills, including startup capital to enable them to engage in meaningful economic activities. In this respect, the ministry will up-scale the disbursement of the Youth Development Fund thereby enhance the capacity of our youth resource centres for them to continue providing development skills to the youth.

Mr Chairperson, to increase and widen the base of highly talented athletes in the country, talent identification and development will be a core programme for the ministry. In this regard, efforts will be directed at strengthening the Centre of Sports Excellence at the Olympic Youth Development Centre. 

In addition, efforts will also be directed at taking the development of sport and physical fitness to the grassroots through the promotion of community sport. This will enhance high performance and competitiveness amongst our sports persons thereby reaping desired medals at various local and international competitions.

Sir, under infrastructure development, my ministry has prioritised the construction of youth resources centres in line with the Government’s policy. In this regard, the ministry will complete the ongoing construction of the seven youth resource centres. In the area of sports infrastructure development, the ministry has prioritised the construction of Livingstone and Mongu stadia and sports complexes in Mufumbwe and Chinsali. The ministry will also work in collaboration with stakeholders in the establishment of community sports spaces in each district.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to conclude by earnestly appealing to the hon. Members of this august House to support the 2015 Budget approval as sport and youth issues are cross-cutting and are the greatest interest to all of us in every sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson. I would like to thank you for this rare opportunity for me to make a few remarks. I promise that I will not take long. 

Sir, I would like to support the Vote for this ministry. This ministry is one of the most important ministries in the sense that, as the hon. Minister said, sports cuts across age, political affiliation and everything else. Whenever sports are going on, every Zambian is glued to the television. 

Further, we also observe that a bigger chunk of our population involves the youth. It is, therefore, necessary for us to support this important ministry because sport is so much loved by the majority who are the youths of this country. Actually, I personally feel that the allocation is not even adequate. Of course, I have always indicated that finance is a limiting factor. If we had more money, we could put more and do a lot. 

Mr Chairperson, let me make some few comments on sport. I want to thank the Zambia National Team for having qualified to the next Africa Cup of Nations (AFCON) finals. We have observed that we had difficulties in qualifying to the finals in the past. Basically, we can attribute the challenge that we had to the sudden departure of the two national coaches, the senior coach, Mr Herve Renard, and his assistant, Mr Patrice Beaumelle. Their sudden departure left a vacuum in the nation because I believe that we were not ready for it. 

Sir, let me mention that Janza and Kalusha Bwalya are the two Zambian coaches who have the Union of European Football Associations (UEFA) certificate in coaching. Janza is a qualified coach, but I think his experience in terms of being practical is less. This is the first time he is handling a task of this magnitude such as this one. Therefore, he actually needs our help. We saw how the team struggled and I think that the problem is with the technical bench, which is very thin. Janza is assisted by Kampamba who is relatively new to the game in terms of experience. He is a very disciplined boy, but I think he lacks experience. I think panic made us bring in a white man as a coach. We need to avoid panicking. What we need to do is to expand the technical bench. 

Mr Chairperson, if we have decided to go local and not foreign, then, we need to look at the local coaches. Probably, you will agree with me that we have got veterans. Instead of having one assistant coach, we can even have a consortium of about three to four Zambian veteran coaches.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, the advantage with those is that they understand the environment and our culture. We should not wait for the last minute to go to Equatorial Guinea for us to do all these things. I want to suggest that this is time for us to expand that committee for these coaches to gain experience. Even when they are picking the team, they should be able to put up a better team. That way, we shall avoid panic and this will help Janza, who is committed to the task.

Mr Chairperson, the other point which I made last year and want to reiterate is the racial discrimination that our players continue to suffer. I think there is a need for us, as governments, across Africa to pay a lot of attention to this issue. Most of the people who are playing good football in Europe are blacks from Africa, but the humiliation that they continue to suffer is so bad. Whenever our own Jacob Mulenga, Samuel Eto’o and Yaya Toure and the rest are playing, there are monkey sounds being produced in the stadium. This is not good. There is a need for us to find an avenue to protest against this discrimination in order to make the world a better place to live in. The racial discrimination in sport is getting out of hand.

Sir, sometimes, when we mention that the Acting President is white, I see a lot of people becoming very uneasy, but the fact is that he is white. 

Mr Livune: That is right!

Mr Mbulakulima: As blacks, we do not need to shy away from that. As I am speaking, Michael Brown, a black American, has been shot dead and there are protests in America. Why do you want to ignore these facts? Why are you not protesting? The African players are facing humiliation because of their colour and there is a need for us to address this issue. 

Mr Chairperson, I do not want to go political, but Dr Guy Scott is the worst governor this country has ever experienced. There is a need for us to focus on that. What is happening in this country is not good because we hear that there have been in-fighting in the Patriotic Front (PF).

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: We are talking about administration in sport. With that reminder, just veer off from that line which you have just taken.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, I was just trying to illustrate the issue of racial discrimination in sport. We realise that the wrangles that are going on in the PF will engulf the country if we are not very careful. It is my sincere hope that this situation be arrested. We, under the leadership of Dr Nevers Mumba, …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I am reluctant to allow hon. Members to debate their leaders. We are now debating the budget for the Ministry of Youth and Sport. Unless you can relate that to his contribution towards sport, you may be out of order. Otherwise, you are definitely off course. 

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, I was trying to say that we need a very strong candidate from the PF so that when we emerge the winner, we shall look back and say, “We had a proper challenge from the PF.” It is our sincere hope that you will settle your differences and face the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) squarely. Hon. Minister, this is a very important ministry which we value because it brings joy to our homes. I am very confident that when we go to Equatorial Guinea, nothing will stop us from lifting the Africa Cup. What we now see happening in the national team is what should have been the situation. You have brought in new legs. Those boys are determined to achieve something. 

Mr Chairperson, as I wind up my debate, I want that party (PF) to put its house in order. How does Dr Guy Scott make decisions that are bringing all this confusion?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to add my voice and that of the people of the Luena to this very important issue. I would like to talk about sport. There is an adage which states, “All work and no play makes Mutinta a dull girl.” 

Sir, sport is very important because it units people and it promotes good health. I note that these days, sport in schools is not compulsory. In our time, it was not like that and, may be, that is why we are fit. 

Young people these days have all the negatives. They are stunted, unhealthy, lazy …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: … and violent because there are no recreational activities that can distract them from such vices.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about stunted growth. Do the hon. Members in the House know that a combination of a good diet and sunshine determines one’s height?

Interruptions

Ms Imenda: It is true. 

Mr Hamududu: Dr Phiri is listening.

Ms Imenda: Dr Kasonde will support me. When one eats healthy food and gets vitamin D from sunshine, the bones are lengthened.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: However, there are no extra-curricular activities in schools, therefore, our children engage themselves in immoral activities because they have no sports facilities.

Mr Chairperson, let me inform the hon. Members in this House that I was very sporty.

Hon. Opposite Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: When I was in Form 2, I won the Western Province interschools …

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Ms Imenda: … discus competition for junior girls …

Mr Mbulakulima: Ema athlete aya.

Ms Imenda: … and I was sent to Central Province where I came second.

Mr Mbulakulima: I was there.

Laughter

Ms Imenda: When I was in Form 5, I won the senior girls high jump competition in the Western Province …

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Mmm.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: … and to crown it all, I went to the Zambia National Service so I was not lazy. Since sport is very important, the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport must work with the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to revive compulsory sport in the school curricular because this will enable our children to be fit.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Youth and Sport has a policy on sport development and co-ordination, but the problem is how to implement it. Our sports policy is bias and is not equitable because everything is concentrated in the urban areas. The hon. Minister mentioned the Heroes Stadium and other stadia which have been built in Lusaka and Livingstone, but the construction of a stadium that was supposed to be built in Mongu is just a pronouncement. If you went to the proposed site of the stadium, you would find a plant known as isunde growing there. When somebody went there for the ground breaking ceremony, he asked for a pick, but when he was told that a pick could not be used in that type of terrain, he walked away. That is very sad because it means that they did not actually intend to construct a stadium in that area and they just wanted to hoodwink the people of that area.

Mr Hamududu: Donchi kubeba.

Ms Imenda: Of course, that was donchi kubeba.

Interruptions

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, if the Government involved the people in the rural areas in sports activities, they would have a bigger catchment area in athletics, football and other sports. At the funeral of our late President, I sat next to Mr Kalusha Bwalya and I interrogated him for not going to Luena to scout for potential football players. Most of the players in the Zambia National Team come from urban areas, and yet there are also potential players in the rural areas. In the past, young people in Luena could chase an animal or a wild beast until they caught it. That simply meant that they were good athletics and could have made a grade for Zambia. However, such people have been ignored and the hon. Minister has never been to remote areas to promote sport.

Sir, as a Member of Parliament, I receive requests for footballs and jerseys from the local people. In this Vote, I am sure that there is an amount allocated to promote sport in the rural areas, therefore, the people of Luena also want a share of that allocation.

Mr Chairperson, I need the guidance of this House. I know that part of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) goes towards the investment of programmes that deal with education and health and I think it can be logical to have a Vote within the CDF to go towards promoting sport activities and acquiring of sports attires and other sports equipment. I would like the hon. Minister, as he winds up the debate on this Vote, to guide me towards that suggestion.

Mr Chairperson, let me also mention that the Ministry of Youth and Sport has concentrated so much on soccer and this was highlighted in the hon. Minister’s policy statement when he talked about the Women’s National Football Team and the Zambia National Team which has qualified yet again to the AFCON when there are other sports activities that the ministry can promote because some people are also talented in athletics, hockey, cricket …

Mr Miyutu: Jumping.

Ms Imenda: … and other sports. So, we should not just concentrate on one sport because we are not born the same.

Mr Hamudulu: Catherine Phiri.

Ms Imenda: I was a discus thrower and a high jumper, but I was very bad at sprinting.

Mr Chairperson, allow me also to talk a bit on the Commonwealth Youth Centre which has caused controversy and even led to loss of property because of rioting. You and I were at the University of Zambia (UNZA) at the same time and we graduated on the same day. We know that the area where the Commonwealth Youth Centre is part of university land. It is only logical to assume that when the Commonwealth came and built that, there must have been an agreement that when they pull out, they would leave that investment with the institution. Why is there such a controversy? I think this is a straight forward thing. This building should be handed back to the university because that is where it belongs in the first place.

Sir, with these few words, I wish to support the Vote.

Mr Bwalya: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, for giving an opportunity to debate this Vote. My contribution will be brief.

I just want to add the voice of the people of Lupososhi to the debate on the Vote of the Ministry of Youth and Sport budget which I totally support. Sir, in supporting this ministry, I want to say that this ministry is very strategic because it is looking after the youths and we all know that, in 2011, the youths voted in numbers for the Patriotic Front (PF).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! They will still do the same.

Mr Bwalya: It is true that they are looking forward to benefiting from the fruits of the PF Government. The sports men and women are equally eager to get a share of the cake. Therefore, Hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, you are a very strong man and this particular ministry requires strategic management in order for it to deliver that which the youths are looking forward to.

Mr Chairperson, there is a need for this country to look at the well-being of the sports men and women. What is lacking is the strategic plan to manage the sports men and women. We have seen a situation where a very good sports man gets on top of things and becomes very popular, works very hard and becomes an icon. Three months down the line, they become destitute. What that shows is that there is no strategic plan to help these particular …

Mr Kafwaya: Lottie Mwale!

Mr Bwalya: … men and women to plan for their future. The skills training that the hon. Minister made reference to in his presentation must be managed in such a way that it brings on board the sports men and women and give them a management skill. It could be financial management or it could be issues to do with the way they handle fame. This is because fame can bring about indiscipline and failure to control themselves. Have you ever wondered how the Kanus of this world have been able to manage their affairs and that they have been able to invest in their country? It is because they have been managed properly. So, that strategic plan may be through the National Sports Council or whichever organ of the Government that could be asked to deal with that particular aspect. Then, we will be able to harness and take care of our sports men and women.

Sir, I want to believe that Kalusha has survived because he was exposed. He was able to get some education and was able to mingle with people that have managed to survive within the fraternity of sport. We can do the same and we can learn the best practices from other countries on how they have managed their sports men and women.

Having said that, Mr Chairperson, I now wish to talk about the issues of diversification. As earlier mentioned by Hon. Imenda, we can diversify in sports instead of concentrating on one sport. In my case, swimming is such a sport that you can pay attention to, hon. Minister.

At one point, I mentioned on the Floor of this House that we do not need to begin making swimmers in this country. We already have born swimmers and they can be found in the North-Western Province, Western Province, Chilubi District …

Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: … and Luapula Province because they were born where there is water and they have been swimming all their lives. However, what they are lacking is the skill and the lack of knowledge on the fact that they can use their talent to raise money. So, if you can cast your net wide and pick people from there and look after them, then, we will have very good swimmers. However, building on this calls for a strategic plan.

Mr Chairperson, the rural talent identification is one such good strategy that can be used. We had it in the past because I know that we used to have what we used call school internationals. I think that is when the late John Soko was born, May His Soul Rest In Peace. They were picked from rural areas and were brought into town and certain mining companies adopted and harnessed them, sent them to school and they became very good sports and men and women. We can do the same even today. 

Sir, on the issue of the youth empowerment fund, this is yet another area where the youths are really complaining. We receive a lot of complaints especially those of us that are manning the rural constituencies.

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: The question is: Is this money only meant for along the line of rail? When will it reach Lupososhi Constituency? Even when it reaches even up to Kasama it ends up in Kasama. So, hon. Minister, you have to look at this particular fund and see how best it can be distributed to rural areas.

Sir, the other issue that also goes with it is the requirement to access this particular fund.

Mr Mutelo: Yes, application forms!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Bwalya: The requirement seems to be so stringent that my youths in Lupososhi Constituency with their limited education level are not able to meet certain requirements. I did mention at one time, Mr Chairperson, when I debated on this particular Vote that we need to simplify this. If they are simplified, have we taken a deliberate policy to disseminate the information and inform the youths in rural areas that we do have forms that are in local languages so that they can understand and interpret issues?

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Bwalya: They will not be able to come up with a business plan, as it is required at times. Even if they go to teachers who are within their vicinity, it is very difficult to get a business plan. So, this is an area you need to look at, hon. Minister.

Mr Chairperson, the other aspect that is related to the Youth Empowerment Fund is the monitoring mechanism. Is this fund just being given? Have we monitored and ascertained whether this fund is, indeed, adding value to the youths? How are they utilising it? Are we able to report the difference between before the youths get these funds and afterwards. We could be budgeting for the money, but it is not adding value or making an impact out there. Hon. Minister, you need to look at the monitoring mechanism and see how best we can add value to this aspect because we have seen certain youths who have confessed that they got the money, but did nothing with it and are at the same pace. Maybe, the amount that is given also is not enough. If you give a youth K5,000, the question is: What is it that they are going to do with it? It is very little, and so, it will just bring complications amongst themselves if they are two or three and eventually they will not use it for the intended purpose. 

So, hon. Minister, you need to ensure that you enhance the monitoring aspect so that you can trace, and do what is called the footprint kind of tracing, in order for you to be satisfied that the money is actually being used and it is adding value.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to talk about the synergies between the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and the Ministry of Youth and Sport, which my colleagues talked about. We know that there is physical education being provided by the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational training and Early Education. However, we do recall that, previously, this was quite a vibrant synergy between the two ministries. Inter-schools sports were well organised to an extent that even scouts who were looking for players in their clubs were able to pick players during the inter-schools sports activities. So, this is something that the hon. Ministers in the respective ministries can explore and see how best they can work together and bring about a vibrant sporting school calendar to benefit all of us, especially the children.

Sir, with those few words, I want to assure Hon. Mbulakulima that we will give them a formidable presidential candidate by the name of Hon. Edgar Lungu.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Before I call on the last debater, Hon. Mutelo, I would like to remind you that while Hon. Bwalya was debating, you were also debating while seated. Therefore, I do not expect you to be lengthy.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, indeed, what Hon. Bwalya has said is what I have as my footnote as well. However, I would not really go into what he has said. To start with, I am humbled that you have given me this opportunity to debate this Vote on behalf of the people of Mitete, Sibungana and …

Mr Antonio: Washishi.

Mr Mutelo: … indeed, Washishi. We are debating the Vote on Youth and Sport, and so, the backbone is youth, which is also the backbone of any formidable nation. Without youth, a nation is a good as dead. I am not saying that the young people, middle aged or aged are bad, but that whatever a nation is to be, you need a youth, be it a soldier or any other profession. If Hon. Munkombwe applies to be a soldier, the people responsible for receiving those applications will turn his application down because he is not a youth, but aged. No wonder the retirement age was fifty-five years. However, the Government is now trying to raise it to sixty-five so that we continue having the ever-green Hon. Munkombwe, …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I think you should desist from debating Hon. Munkombwe.

Mr Nkombo: Recycled people.

Mr Mutelo: Sir, we are all speaking the same language that we need the youth to take this country forward. So, I want to repeat what I said earlier that without the youth, a nation is as good as dead. The hon. Minister of Youth and Sport should know that he is heading a very important ministry. However, it seems the responsibility of this ministry is taken lightly. If we cannot take care of our youth, then, we are building a distorted nation and we may end up having situations where the youths clash each time they meet. Unfortunately, you only remember them when it is time to campaign.

Mr Chairperson, among those who have debated, I am, at least, close to the youth, if I am not a youth myself. So, I know what the youth go through. When it comes to important matters, the youth are left out, but when it comes to political affairs such as protecting politicians, it is the youth who are called upon.

Mr Chairperson, the Youth Empowerment Fund should be available anytime and not only when it suits the politicians. The politicians should not solicit support from the youth by buying them tujilijili and shake shake. You must build a disciplined youth so that you have a good nation and generation. If you forget about them, you are doing a disservice to your children and grandchildren.

Mr Antonio: Tell them!

Mr Mutelo: Sir, the inter-school competitions’ organisers, working in collaboration with the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, saw a good number of youth, especially those from rural areas, being exposed. However, these things are no longer there. During the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) rule, hon. Members of Parliament would receive balls for their constituencies. I am pretty sure that even the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, when he was in the Opposition, used to receive such things to take to his Constituency. However, he has forgotten. Bintu bikinja.

The Deputy Chairperson: Meaning what?

Mr Mutelo: Lika za cincanga tate.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: That means things change. If things change on 20th January, 2015, you will still want to talk about these things. That is why the madam was saying that if these incentives cannot be provided by the Ministry of Youth and Sport, then, let us have some share from the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) which can be used for engaging, entertaining and keeping our rural youth busy. I just returned from my constituency and what is happening there is sad. There is total lawlessness and the people there are completely ungoverned. There is no police station and the youth have no balls to use for their re-creation activities. So, they have just become known as Karavina boys.

Hon. Opposition Members: No balls.

Mr Mutelo: They are busy butchering and murdering elderly people because they have nothing to entertain them. We are slowly turning the youth into criminals.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

All of you are communicating in a foreign language, but you know the message.

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear! Footballs.

Mr Mutelo: They can be footballs, netballs or even volleyballs, but they are all balls.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Sir, that is why I was saying we used to have sporting activities like javelin and shot put in schools but, today, these things are not there and not even known. Physical Education used to help some of us who would go out of class to run for fifty or twenty minutes and then go back to class. However, these things are no longer on the school calendars.

Mr Antonio: The PF has buried them.

Mr Mutelo: We used to do physical education. I do not know whether the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education did it when he was at school because I was not there. This is no longer happening in schools today. We have to be mindful of the fact that for any child to have good education, he/she has to be active in sports. However, these things are now dead.

Mr Antonio: Yes, buried.

Mr Mutelo: They are buried.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: My colleagues are cheering because they know that we need youths. 

Mr Chairperson, seven youth centres nationwide is inadequate. We are moving at a snail’s space in developing these centres and need to speed up this process. We have so many districts and they all require youth centres. I am very thankful to God that there is even Mitete District. The hon. Minister has just informed us that each district will have a youth centre, but we are still in Phase I of the programme. Further, I do not see the allocation for this programme in the Yellow Book. So, there is a need to allocate money for this programme. 

Sir, let me also comment on the issue of the application form for the Youth Empowerment Fund. When this was mentioned earlier, you heard me say, “Hear, hear!” However, if these forms were given to any youth in Mitete, kwafulungana, they would be meaningless. Even a teacher at a community school would not understand how to fill them in. On the other hand, money under this fund is only disbursed at the ministry’s headquarters. If by any chance it is taken to the districts, it ends up at the District Commissioner’s (DC) Office and only given to clubs with political affiliations. Therefore, I will repeat that vintu vikingya.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: This means lika za chingya.

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: What does that mean?

Mr Mutelo: It means things change.

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: Nothing has changed yet. Not until those on your right find themselves here will they realise that things have now changed.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: When things change, then, they will remember what I am saying. That is what I mean by saying things change. Our colleagues should do things the way they would have wanted them done when they were on this side of the House. The problem, bo Chairperson, …

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo: … is that when people are here …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member currently on the Floor continues to expose his limitation and capacity to deliberate properly here using the official language permitted in this House. He has continued using vernacular terms which we cannot even understand or interpret. Is he in order to continue debating in that fashion? I seek your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Member is in order and the Chair has not noticed any limitations in the manner he is communicating.

You may continue, Hon. Mutelo.

Mr Mutelo: Sir, I will not talk about that because the hon. Member who has just raised that point of order is my beloved friend.

The Deputy Chairperson: Just debate.

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo: I will leave him alone. However, when I say ‘Bo Chairperson’, those who do know what I mean should just ask what this term implies.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Have a seat.

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: Let us guide each other. Here, the accepted ways of addressing the Chairperson is Mr Chairperson and Madam Chairperson. There is nothing like Bo, whatever it means.

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: So, with that guidance in mind, can you wind up, please.

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo: Sir, as I wind up, I would like to say that when I use a term that some hon. Members do not understand, I should just be asked to explain.

Interruptions

Mr Mutelo: Sir, thank you very much for your guidance. However, I hope that one day, I will not hear someone speaking in his or her mother tongue in this House.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Please, once you are guided …

Mr Mutelo: That will be …

Ms Kapata: You have run out of points.

Mr Mutelo: I have not.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! 

Hon. Member, please, debate. Do you want me to curtail your debate because you are becoming repetitive? The rules here say that you should not be repetitive. I am very patient, but patience runs out. 

So, can you wind up, please.

Mr Mutelo: Sir, we have had names like Peter Kaumba, Malitoli, Obby Kapita, Musole and Kashiba that brought glory to this country when they were youths. What have we done, as a nation, to remember such people? Like I said, my points have not been exhausted.

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo: Earlier, you heard me shouting out the name Lottie Mwale. What have we done for him? If we honour such people, those holding the mantle now and those coming behind will be encouraged to work even harder. When the likes of Kalusha Bwalya are praised, current footballers like Rainford Kalaba are motivated to work hard.  

Sir, another person that deserves praise is the current coach of the Zambia National Football Team. Mr Janza has managed to get the Zambia national football Team to qualify for the 2015 African Cup of Nations (AFCON). So, kudos to Janza. This coach could bring some more glory to this country. So, congratulations to him.

With those very few words, I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, let me take this opportunity to thank the hon. Members of Parliament that have debated. A lot has been raised by the hon. Members of Parliament, more especially by my brother who is the shadow hon. Minister of Finance for the United Party for National Development (UPND), the last debater.

Mr Mutelo stood and bowed.

Laughter 

Mr Kambwili: Mr Chairperson, I would love to just make a few comments on some issues that were pertinent in the debates by hon. Members. First and foremost, let me thank Hon. Imenda for raising the issue of the Commonwealth Youth Development Centre (CYDC). I was about to come with a ministerial statement, but I can take this opportunity to explain the circumstances surrounding that centre. 

The CYDC was constructed by the Commonwealth secretariat to offer youth services to the entire continent of Africa. Zambia was only the hosting country. The property was built on the University of Zambia (UNZA) land and there was an agreement that when the Commonwealth closed all the youth programmes, the facility would, then, be handed over to tUNZA. As it stands now, the Commonwealth has not closed its youth programmes and the idea of handing over the centre to UNZA is neither here nor there. 

Sir, what the Commonwealth did was to change the operation mode. 

Mr Chairperson, previously, the Commonwealth used to pay for all the workers that were employed at the Youth Centre, meaning they were directly employed by the Commonwealth. However, it came to the realisation that it was paying more money in paying salaries than doing programmes. So, the Commonwealth resorted to having the National Youth Council of Zambia run those facilities with four focal persons to be paid by the Commonwealth so that it could spend more money in running the programmes. So, that centre has now been handed over to the National Youth Council of Zambia to run programmes in collaboration with the Commonwealth in the region and in Zambia. This means that the centre is not meant for UNZA as long as the programmes are ongoing. I think that, by and large, there was misinformation from some of our irresponsible administrators at the university who made the students behave the way they did.

Sir, I hope and trust that my explanation, today, brings to the close this issue. I mean there is no way that the Government can discuss policy issues and the running of certain institutions with students. Otherwise, if we allow the students to overrule us, tomorrow, they will say we want to move to Parliament, and as long as they demonstrate, you will be forced to leave Parliament to the students. I have said that I will not be that kind of a minister who can be pushed by students. That facility still belongs to the Commonwealth and is run by the Ministry of Youth and Sport on behalf of Africa. By the way, UNZA students are not the only youths in Zambia. I hope I have clarified that issue.

Sir, a lot has been said about these centres and my friend, Hon. Mutelo, said seven more centres are being built and was wondering when they will be completed. I want to inform you that we already have seventeen youth resource centres. What is being done at most of the existing centres is an addition of workshops and building hostels. We have started the construction of seven new centres. This means that an addition of seventeen will give us twenty-four, plus Mwange Youth Resource Centre which brings the number to twenty-five.

Sir, we would have loved to build the centres in one year, but due to the limitations of the resource envelop, we are unable to. Should we build youth resources and forget about the hospitals, running schools and other needs that the Government needs to attend to? I think a responsible government would not do that. We are going to develop these youth resource centres according to the resource envelop.

Colleagues, I think it is good sometimes to give credit where it is due. The Youth Empowerment Fund has been decentralised to provinces. We have the Provincial Youth Co-ordinators, working in collaboration with the District Commissioners. The last time I came on the Floor of this House I said hon. Members of Parliament are stakeholders. I said if you want your youths to have a seminar where they will be taught how to fill in the forms and how to respond to the youth empowerment forms, you are more than welcome to approach us. My staff at the ministry and in the provinces is more than ready to move to whatever part of Zambia to hold seminars and show the youths how to apply and access the Youth Empowerment Fund. This fund is not being given on political patronage. 

Mr Antonio: Question!

Mr Kambwili: We are giving these funds according to the applications and the approved applications done by the districts. There is no PF member who sits on the committees that …

Mr Antonio: Ask your District Commissioners (DCs).

Mr Kambwili: May I have your protection, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Protection is granted. Hon. Member, we do not expect you to continue debating while seated.

Mr Kambwili: The Technical Committees at provincial level comprise of people from the Office of the President, Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC), the local business community and in some cases, teachers or headmasters. This means that we have a number of people drawn from different walks of life within the province. When you check those officials, they are not PF officials. The ministry or I, as Minister, have nothing to do with approving of the application forms. What I only do is give out the cheques. It is a ceremonial function of just giving out the cheques so that we show that we are being transparent. Please, I urge hon. Members of Parliament to come to our offices and learn how this fund is being administered and I am sure that you will appreciate that there is a lot of transparency.

I agree that when cheques are being given out in the provinces, most of the beneficiaries are those from provincial centres. I have said repeatedly, like this year, I told them that, if I am going to find 70 or 50 per cent of the cheques are going to those who live in the provincial centres, then, I am not going to give out the cheques. I want these funds to go in the rural places of the provinces so that every young Zambian can benefit.

Yes, indeed, we are doing everything possible, in collaboration with the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, to make sure that we bring back the good old days of sport in primary and secondary schools. There is an inter-ministerial committee that has been set up to look at these things. We have completed the curriculum working with Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education. Indeed, sport must not be compulsory, but every child who goes to school must participate in one sporting activity or the other.

Some hon. Members raised an assumption that the ministry is mainly concentrating on football. Mr Chairperson that is not true. If you look at the participation of Zambia in international events − I think it will take me a long time to read out the medals that we have collected from these international assignments − you will realise that for football, it is only the AFCON 2012 and probably the girls who won the under-20 games which we hosted in 2012. Most medals that we have gotten are from other sport disciplines.

One hon. Member said that we are not doing anything about swimming. I can tell you that some sport disciplines in which we have done well, as a country, are actually swimming, boxing and judo. These are not football activities. I can go on and on, but in a nutshell, let me just say that we understand the hon. Member’s concerns and we will make every effort to incorporate their views in our effort to give out good quality sporting activities in our country.

Let me say something on Mongu Stadium. Look let us not politicise the issue of the stadium. The reason as I said is just a question of resources. Mongu stadium is still on our cards. Livingstone stadium is also still on our cards. For your own information we have been approached by some corporate institutions that want to partner with Government in building these two stadia, one in Livingstone and the other one in Mongu. As soon as the resources are available, Madam Imenda, we are going to build the stadium in Mongu and Livingstone.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 76/01 ordered to be part of the Estimates.

Vote 76/02 – (Ministry of Youth and Sport – Youth Affairs Department − K53, 028, 537).

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 5007, Activity 009 – Commonwealth Youth Programme Arrears – K30, 000. How did these arrears arise and why is the amount smaller compared to the previous year?

On Programme 5079, Activities 005 – Insurance of Motor Vehicle – K25, 000, 006 – Procurement of Fuel and Lubricants – K100,000 and 009 – Fleet Servicing – K35, 00, why did these activities not appear in the Budget previously?

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Mulenga): Mr Chairperson, Programme 5007, Activity 009 – Common Wealth Youth Arrears – K30,000 are subscriptions to the Commonwealth Youth Programmes. The decrease is because part of the arrears owed were paid off in 2014.

Mr Chairperson, Programme 5079, Activity 005 – Insurance of Motor Vehicles – K25,000 is  required to meet the cost of insurance of motor vehicles in the Department of Youth.  Activity 006 – Procurement of Fuel and Lubricants – K100,000 is required to meet the cost of purchasing fuel and lubricants for motor vehicles in the Department of Youth. Activity 009 – Fleet Servicing – K35,000 is required to facilitate the service, repair and maintenance of motor vehicles in the Department of Youth. All these are new activities. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5007, Activity 016 – Insurance –K1,000,000.

The Deputy Chairperson: We have already gone past that.

Laughter

Vote 76/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 76/03 – (Ministry of Youth and Sport – Sports Department – K23,490,137).

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 5120, Activity 003 – National Sports Festival – K34,000. Why is there such a big deduction?

Mr Mulenga: Mr Chairperson, the decrease is on account that the activity will be conducted in collaboration with the provincial offices.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 76/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)
_________ 

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

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The House adjourned at 1956 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 3rd December, 2014.

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