DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 3rd December, 2014

The House met at 1400 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]  

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_____   

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

CORRECTION TO EARLIER ANNOUNCEMENT ON ZWPC

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I have a correction to make to the announcement that I made yesterday. 

The Zambia Women Parliamentary Caucus (ZWPC) will be launching its strategic plan for 2013 – 2016 in the Auditorium tomorrow, Thursday, 4th December, 2014. It will commence at 0900 hours. 

As indicated earlier, participation is open to all hon. Members of Parliament on a voluntary basis. However, hon. Members of the ZWPC are especially encouraged to attend the launch. 

I thank you.

_____ 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

INTRODUCTION OF LIVESTOCK DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMME IN LUBANSENSHI

255. Mr Mutati (Lunte) (on behalf of Mr Mucheleka) (Lubansenshi) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock: 

(a)    when the Government would introduce the Livestock Development Programme in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency;

(b)    what types of livestock would be introduced; and 

(c)    which areas in the constituency would be covered.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Kazabu): Mr Speaker, there are a number of livestock activities taking place in Luwingu District in which Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency is located, that are meant to enhance the development of livestock in the area. The activities include: 

(a)    promotion of the rearing of small ruminants like goats and sheep and local or village chickens in collaboration with local stakeholders such as the Silesian Sisters and Irish Aid;

(b)    the vaccination of village chickens against Newcastle Disease;

(c)    sensitisation of farmers on the compulsory dipping of livestock; and

(d)    conversion of Kalungwishi Ranch in Mporokoso by the Government to a livestock breeding centre to provide livestock to farmers in the Northern Province, which includes Luwingu District.

Mr Speaker, the rearing of cattle will be introduced through a stocking programme. The rearing of goats, sheep and chickens is already being promoted. Lastly, the whole area delimited as Lubansenshi Constituency in Luwingu District will be covered. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, when will Lubansenshi Constituency access the livestock from Kalungwishi Livestock Breeding Centre? 

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, our farmers who live in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency will access the livestock from Kalungwishi Livestock Breeding Centre as soon as the livestock that we have put there multiplies. This programme will benefit most of our farmers. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether at present there are any cattle in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency, and if none, why he is so sure that the initiative which is in place will make it possible for cattle to be stocked there?

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the question did not focus on cattle. It was looking at livestock in general. I have answered it by saying that we already promoting the rearing of goats, chickens and sheep in the area. Further, I said that when the stock of animals that we have put at Kalungwishi Livestock Breeding Centre, which is the nearest point of supply, multiplies, our people in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency will have the opportunity to get animals from there. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.  

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, livestock is very important for our people, especially those in the northern part of the country. The rearing of livestock may also probably includes the keeping of monkeys. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, will the people in the northern part of Zambia also start taming monkeys as part of their livestock for consumption?

Laughter 

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, we do not intend to go down that avenue. 

Laughter 

Mr Kazabu: Sir, monkeys cannot be described as livestock. Monkeys belong to a totally different category. 

Laughter 

Mr Mutati: Wildlife.

Mr Kazabu: Sir, someone has just whispered a word to me. Monkeys fall in the category of wildlife. Thus, perhaps the question which has been asked by Hon. Mbewe should be directed to our colleagues in the Ministry of Tourism and Arts.

I thank you, Sir. 

________

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

VOTE 87 – (Anti-Corruption Commission – Headquarters – K79,924,032).

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip, and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Mukanga): Mr Chairperson, I rise to present the Estimates of Expenditure for the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) for the year 2015. 

Sir, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has continued to demonstrate its enthusiasm and aspiration to rid this country of the scourge of corruption. Transparency and accountability …

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mukanga: ... continue to be cornerstones of public expenditure and form the basis upon which this Government will deliver on its mandate and the promises that it made to the people of Zambia. It is for this reason that the PF Government has provided steadfast support to the ACC and the overall fight against corruption in Zambia. The operations of the commission are present in all the provinces except for Muchinga Province which is scheduled to open in 2015. The operations of the commission are also planned to be decentralised to the district level in order to bring the services of the commission closer to the people.

Sir, to this effect, a district office was opened in Livingstone in 2013 while another was opened in Chirundu in 2014. It is envisaged that a district office will be opened in Nakonde in 2015. Efforts to fight corruption have progressed steadily over the last three years since the PF Government took over the administration of this country. This is evident from Transparency International Corruption Perception index scores which records Zambia’s score at 38 out of 100 points in 2013, 37 out of 100 points in 2012 and 32 out 100 points in 2011. Countries standing at 100 points are considered to be less corrupt than those standing at 1 point.

Mr Chairperson, further, the World Bank Governance indicators have shown that Zambia has improved in the control of corruption from 32.9 in 2010 to 44.0 in 2013. Tremendous achievements were recorded in 2014 under the National Anti-Corruption Policy in streamlining and institutionalising corruption prevention programmes at points of service delivery across public service institutions.

Sir, the number of established integrity committees in 2013 stood at thirty-one and rose to forty-two in 2014. Vigorous public campaigns were also mounted to engage citizens, civil society organisations (CSOs), both traditional and civic leaders and the youth in the fight against corruption. This culminated into having a more informed and proactive public that has been instrumental in reporting cases of corruption. Improvements were also recorded in a number of cases investigated, concluded and taken to the courts of law.

Mr Chairperson, the conviction rate rose from 54 per cent in 2012 to 58 per cent in 2013. In face of the achievements mentioned above, the fight against corruption for the commission still faces challenges which include low staffing levels, inadequate office space and funding.

Sir, for the year 2015, the commission will place its focus on the following actives:

(a)    procuring an electronic case management system in order to enhance the management of investigations and prosecution cases which is currently handled manually;

(b)    enhancing operational capacity of its staff through capacity building to undertake its core mandate;

(c)    enhancing the consolidation and implementation of the National Anti-Corruption Policy and the National Integrity Programme;

(d)    enhancing and strengthening the engagement of citizens, CSOs and traditional leaders in anti-corruption initiatives; 

(e)    implementing a new organisation structure in order to decentralise its operations to the provinces and districts;

(f)    ensuring that the board is fully reconstituted;

(g)    securing appropriate office accommodation for regional offices; and 

(h)    effectively communicating the commission’s achievements to the public.

Mr Chairperson, the implementation of the programmes above and interventions in 2015 will undoubtedly go a long way towards curbing corruption and making Zambia a better place for its citizens and for all to live in and conduct business.

Sir, the budget allocation for the ACC for the year 2015 is K79,924,032. I wish to reiterate that the PF Government will continue to support the ACC in its work and will ensure that the commission is allocated adequate funds in order to further strengthen the institution and equip it to effectively carry out its mandate. 

Mr Chairperson, the PF Government is determined to ensure that corruption is addressed in both the public and private institutions to ensure the realisation of meaningful development for the benefit of all Zambians. 

Sir, allow me now to once again call upon all hon. Members of this august House to provide their unwavering support to the ACC and indeed to the overall fight against corruption in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, I will be as brief as possible in debating this particular Vote. First and foremost, I would like to state that the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) is a very toothless institution that is being used by the political party in power to abuse the rights of those in the Opposition. We have witnessed a situation where members of the Opposition are being targeted by this institution because of orders given by those in power. We have noted that whilst members of Government are in office, there are no investigations that are instituted against them. Immediately they resign from Government, the ACC appears to be awake and starts investigating them. The ACC is a public institution that uses public resources. It must be seen to be working professionally without being influenced by any person that is in Government. We in the Opposition are very concerned …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … with what is happening in Government pertaining to the abuse of resources. We are all aware that under the electoral regulations, a political party is not authorised to use any Government resources. We have noted that with impunity, the party in Government has been abusing Government resources from the time our dear late President died canvassing for votes. We have witnessed a situation where the business of the political party in power has been handled at Government premises. This is contrary to the Electoral Code of Conduct. The toothless ACC has just been watching all this happening. It has not even condemned the activities. What an institution? They always react to instructions which are issued by hon. Ministers. Immediately an hon. Minister makes an allegation, they will rush to investigate it.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order on my right!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, the officers of the ACC must be seen to be working professionally. They are aware of all the abuses that are taking place. The ACC is aware of the activities which the District Commissioners (DCs) have been engaging in during by-elections. They are also aware of hon. Ministers who have been dishing out money during by-elections, but have done nothing because their institution is toothless. If it is a member of the Opposition who breaks the Electoral Code of Conduct, the officers from the ACC jump and appear to be working. Why should they be seen to be an appendage of the Ruling Party? We are aware of certain hon. Ministers who are abusing Government resources who are not being investigated by the ACC. Whenever the officers from the ACC hear that an Opposition hon. Member of Parliament is suspected of having involved himself in the misappropriation of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), they jump and start investigating him.

Mr Chitotela: I am here!

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, why should they be doing that? 

Mr Muntanga: There is an example.

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, the ACC is an institution that is supposed to be reporting to Parliament about the work it engages in. Its officers fear to investigate those in who are in Government because they are afraid of losing their jobs. The credibility of this institution is at its lowest ebb because of the behavior of the people that work for it. We should not allow this particular institution to be abused. We are in the election mode and we are aware of the abuses that are taking place. The situation is as if the ACC does not exist in the country. 

Mr Muntanga: Are they there?

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, maybe it is just an organisation which exists only on paper. Currently, there is nothing serious which the organisation is doing. We are aware that even in the cases regarding the election petitions against the Opposition hon. Members, the ACC was in the forefront of providing evidence so that the elections were nullified. Why should it be doing that? This is an institution that is supposed to be protecting the rights of the citizens of the country. Even when allegations are made, we are aware that this particular institution has been seizing properties of individuals without resolving matters. Some of the cases have been outstanding for more than ten years after seizure notices have been issued. Those affected have been suffering without any recourse to the law. No one is being held accountable. It is not correct for an institution that is supposed to be credible to be used be abused like that. I would like to appeal to the officers of the ACC to be seen to be acting professionally as we approach 20th of January, 2015. They must be seen to be protecting the assets of the nation. 

Mr Chairperson, I hope that if they have ears, they have heard. They should not continue abusing the rights of citizens.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, the intentions of the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) as mentioned in the policy statement by the hon. Minister are welcome. The implementation part is the one which is problematic. There is too much political influence in the operations of the ACC. This puts those working for the ACC in a quandary. These people know what they are supposed to do, but are unable to perform their duties properly due to pressure from the appointing authority. We saw the then Secretary-General of the Patriotic Front (PF) go to the ACC offices with cadres when he was summoned for questioning. The late President decided to even protect him from being investigated. When a person ceases to be in good standing with the party in power, the person is investigated by the ACC.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Sir, we have seen these things happen within the three years of the PF being in power. This is making the ACC not to perform its functions fully.  

Mr Livune: Is that so? What about Kambwili?

Mr Mutelo: Sir, let us not condemn the officers from the ACC for their behaviour because they work under the instructions of the appointing authority. The political influence is undermining the good intentions of the ACC. I, Misheck Mutelo, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West was accused of having bribed the electorates for them to vote for me. 

Interruptions

Mr Livune: Mwana mubotana!

Mr Mutelo: Sir, during the Lukulu West Constituency Parliamentary elections, we saw some people bribe the local people openly while I used a canoe to reach out to them. Despite all this, I was elected Member of Parliament for Lukulu West. The ACC interrogates innocent people and lets those who bribe people publicly go scot-free.

Mr Chairperson, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has stated that the commission receives low funding. How do we expect the ACC to carry out its investigations properly under such circumstances? I have noticed that the allocation for the commission has been reduced from K 83,839,868 to K79,924,032, translating into a reduction of K3,915,836. Even if there were reports that I had bribed some people, I would have loved to see the allocation increased. Hon. Mwiimbu also stated that the commission is toothless. How can such a commission investigate the so called ‘big fish.’

Sir, I wish 

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Shakafuswa: Continue.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: … to urge the ACC, despite the low funding levels, to prove that it is an institution which …

Mr Livune: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: … has the interests of the Zambian people at heart because we have a lot of thieves in our midst.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me to add my voice to the debate which is on the Floor on behalf of the people of Luena.

Sir, why should this institution exist …

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Ms Imenda: … when it is just being used to victimise political opponents of the Ruling Party? I am reluctant to support the allocation to the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) because its officers will victimise the political opponents of the Ruling Party even more when their institution receives funding.

Mr Chairperson, not too long ago, there were allegations of corruption involving members of the Ruling Party. Those allegations just died a natural death without being properly investigated. 

Sir, if what I saw in Mangango will be repeated during the upcoming election, then we are not going anywhere in terms of growing our democracy. The Ruling Party members bribed the people of Mangango openly. I wonder where the officers of the ACC were during that period.

Hon. Opposition Members: They were there.

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, according to the rules set by the Electoral Commission of Zambia, political party members are not supposed to campaign a day before the elections. However, a day before the Mangango by-elections, members of the Ruling Party slaughtered cows and distributed the meat to the villagers. The officers from the ACC did not arrest any member of the Ruling Party for doing that. If it had been members from the Opposition parties who did that, they would have been arrested. Like Hon. Mwiimbu stated, members of the Ruling Party have a tendency to give money to villagers so that they can be voted for. For example,  during the Mangango by-election, some villagers were given K100 each.

Sir, the current controversy surrounding the Mulobezi, Malambo and Petauke seats which is in the courts of law is a testimony of how toothless the ACC is because the law is very clear that a person deemed to be corrupt is not eligible to stand for any election. As far as I know, the ACC did not confirm whether the hon. Members who held these seats were found guilty of electoral malpractices. This shows that the officers at the commission are not doing their work. 

Mr Shakafuswa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order which borders on the integrity of leadership in this country. The president of the Patriotic Front (PF) …

Mr Muntanga: Which one?

Mr Shakafuswa: … and hon. Member of Parliament for Matero Constituency has not been in the House for over a month which means that he has not been working. The other president of the PF has not been seen in the House for the last two days. I would like to find out whether the people of Zambia can trust these presidents with their welfare? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: I am sure there are measures being taken to address that situation.

May the hon. Member continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Chief Whip!
Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). All along, the CDF was working very well. The communities through project committees have been handling the CDF. Recently, the Government intervened saying that the people were not enforcing guidelines regarding CDF. According to the Government, if a project is worth more than K50,000, then contractors must be engaged. I think that this is a recipe for corruption. It seems that the people in Government have now realised that the way CDF was being handled was efficient. Thus, they now want to find a way …

Interruptions

Hon. Government Member: Uli nandeo iwe!

The Chairperson: Order!

There is loud consultation going on by the people on my left.

You may continue.

Ms Imenda: Sir, how will the corrupt people benefit from the CDF? They are aware that projects like building a classroom or a teacher’s house costs more than K50,000. At the contracting stage, the corrupt officials will find a way of benefiting from the project. The process of choosing a contractor is not transparent and takes time. 

Sir, at the moment, the projects in my constituency are not moving. I do not know about other constituencies. The corrupt officers have even take over the small projects that were started with the previous CDF by the community, which only need about K63,000 to finish. They had to single source a contractor by the name of Mumba to come and work in the middle of the Barotse Plain.

Mr Muntanga: From where?

Ms Imenda: Sir, that name tells a story. I am just giving an example here that there is some corruption which is creeping in the administration of the CDF. That is why they are insisting that we have to follow the guidelines in which they have found a loophole through which they can engage in corruption.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about Road Development Agency (RDA). First of all, the person who was appointed Chairperson is a cadre.

Hon. Opposition Members: He is now campaign manager!

Laughter

Ms Imenda: Sir, this country cannot develop because of corruption. A contract that is supposed to cost K1 million is going to cost K3 million. This is because there is a portion that is supposed to go to maybe State House, or the corrupt people within RDA.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, this is not fair. That is corruption and we should not allow it.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Chairperson, I reluctantly rise on this serious point of order. The policy statement which was delivered by the Acting Leader of Government Business is very clear. I have been following the debate by the hon. Member who is on the Floor of the House. She has veered off from the issues which were outlined in the policy statement. She is now talking about issues which were not referred to in the policy statement. 

Mr Muntanga: Declare interest!

Mr Kampyongo: Sir, she has further started talking about a person who is not here to defend himself. Is she in order to start discussing issues which are irrelevant to the policy statement?

The Chairperson: I think we have to move on. The points of order are derailing our progress. I understand the statement she made in the context of something happening in certain institutions and the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) failing to do something about it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

The Chairperson: I think it is in that context that I will let her debate.

May you continue, please.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. Long live the Chair!

The Chairperson: No, you do not have to say that.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Even if you do not agree with what I have said, I will still live long.

Laughter

The Chairperson: You may continue.

Ms Imenda: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. We have come across incidences where some institutions only have one board member who is the chairperson. Why is there no board? Is that not a recipe for the abuse of office? There is only a chairperson who sits with a permanent secretary to make policy decisions. At the end of the day, he even claims for some allowances after stating that he was authorised by the board to go and inspect certain bridges or projects. Which board authorized his trips? Which quorum did he constitute?

Mr Chairperson, I thought that I should add a voice to the debate on the allocation to the ACC. The ACC in its current form should be done away with so that we can start afresh.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Vote on the Floor of this House. I stand to support the Vote.

Sir, the intention of forming the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) was noble at the time when the First Republican President thought of forming it. Its formation was appropriate because there came a time when any suspicions of corruption had to be checked. However, now, I think that the commission has veered off its core mandate. 

Sir, at the moment, there is a requirement that whenever officers of the ACC are questioning someone, officers from the Office of the President Officers are present at the interviews. Despite such initiatives being put in place, there is still a lot of corruption taking place. The money which we allocate to the commission should not be used for to witch-hunting purposes. 

Sir, every single day, the ACC receives hundreds of reports which need to be verified. The ACC should not be used to harass those who are not in good books with the Government. If all the elections in the courts of law were nullified because of corruption, what was the ACC doing during the election period? Why should the ACC not take action during the election period?

Mr Chairperson, it appears that when you touch one of these organisations, the Executive will defend it. Those in Government should allow the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC) to investigate them while they are still in office. That way, they will have a way to save themselves unlike when they are out of office because then, the people who will enforce that investigation will not treat you kindly. Before they are eventually cleared, they would have been in custody in some prison. Some former hon. Deputy Ministers while still in office. Since they were not roughed up, they still enjoyed some freedom and kept on arguing their case until they were cleared. We are still waiting for the big fish there. Everyone has to be investigated and cleared. We have to turn all of them upside down and see what will come out. 

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Mr Muntanga: Sir, they are free to investigate me now. The Acting Leader of Government Business is the minister of corruption. There is too much corruption in his ministry. It seems the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication wants to debate while seated. He is lucky that he is not yet under investigation. How can he account for all the riches that he has acquired within a short period of time?

Mr Mukanga interjected.

Mr Muntanga: Does he think that we do not know anything? If it is personal, …

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, I think you are now debating the individual. Please, let us not debate ourselves. Let us also not make running commentaries while seated because doing so will provoke others to go astray. Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Muntanga: Sir, I am not sure if the lady who is in charge of the ACC is free to execute her duties. I want to urge her not to be afraid of being fired for doing the right thing. She should let the ACC investigate cases of corruption and act professionally. All those who are clean should not fear to be investigated. Why should you be scared? I want to see all these corruption cases come to a conclusion. We should not have corruption cases being investigated for years on end. That is not right.

Sir, a long time ago, the Intelligence Unit of the Office of the President would check if what was being done by the police was correct. This does not happen anymore. There are so many cases involving our security personal. It is becoming difficult to investigate these officers. So, I want to know what the problem at the ACC is. Officers who commit offences are just transferred to other districts. That is not the answer. These officers gain experience and commit sophisticated crimes. I want the ACC to be given more powers. The commission is supposed to be acting properly and not merely being used against perceived political enemies.

Sir, I want to urge the commission to be very firm. As we approve its Budget, which has been reduced, to prove that it can still be effective even with limited funding. That way, we will ensure that it receives more, in the next Budget, to enable it to do more clean ups and make sure that everybody is checked. This clean-up is not necessarily for the people in the Executive only, but also those in various Government departments as well because that is where grand corruption is happening. Everywhere you go, you find that people do not want to do what they are employed for. They delay to carry out certain functions so that they can be bribed. If we do not check this trend, Zambia will exceed some countries that are known to be corrupt, and that is worrisome.

Mr Chairperson, if you go to certain airports, you are told that your passport does not look genuine and then asked all sorts of flimsy questions by some immigration officials until you give them a bribe.  I am worried that Zambia may be heading in that direction. This corruption is going to kill this country. The ACC should make sure that this does not happen.

Sir, with these few words, I thank you.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, firstly, I would like to appreciate the comments made by some of the hon. Members. I want to state that the ACC is here to stay. It is a very important institution that is needed for the country to continue with its developmental activities.

Sir, as regards comments that the commission is toothless, I would like to state that we are reviewing the Act under which it operates so that it can be given enough power to bite. In the recent past, the commission has been able to institute a lot of investigations, and statistics are there to prove that. In 2013, 1987 cases were investigated by the commission. Of that figure, 1520 cases were against the Government, 389 cases were against private officials and seventy eight cases were against quasi-Government institutions.

Mr Chairperson, as the Government, we are not hiding anything. We are open to investigations. The ACC is free to investigate any Government official. At no time has the Government ever said that the commission should not investigate any Government official. What the late President said was that if the commission was instituting any investigation against any of the hon. Ministers, he needed to be informed first. The ACC is free to investigate any Government official.

Sir, the ACC’s mandate during elections is to investigate those attempting to, or actually bribing the electorate and ensure that such persons are brought to book. It does not pay to come and report corruption cases on the Floor of this House. If an hon. Member or any other person has information regarding corruption related activities, he or she should go to the ACC and report all such matters. The ACC can only investigate what is reported. The commission is open to all the members of the public. They should feel free to go there and report cases which need to be investigated so that they can make Zambia a better place to live in. I am a qualified mechanical engineer who does not fear to be investigated.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 87/01 – (Anti Corruption Commission – Headquarters – K79,924,032)

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I would like to know why the allocation has been reduced from K83,339,868 in the 2014 Budget to K79,924,032 in next year’s Budget.

The Chairperson: This is not a policy debate. I think we need to seek clarifications on particular programmes and not on policy related issues.

VOTE 87/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 51 – (Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication – K788,799,786).

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving this opportunity to present the 2015 budget policy statement for the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. My ministry is responsible for formulating and administering policies in the buildings and construction industry, development of transport and information, communication and technology (ICT) policies, construction and maintenance of roads, communications and transport and meteorological sectors. The ministry is also responsible for the control of government transport, housing, printing of gazettes and Hostels Board of Management. The Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication remains one of the key ministries with the biggest responsibility of driving economic growth and job creation in line with the objectives of Industrialisation and the Job Creation Strategic Paper.

Mr Chairperson, in 2014, Parliament appropriated an amount of K864,811,684 to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. Allow me to share some of the achievements recorded during this period. These include, among other things, the following:

(a)    finalising the construction of the National Heroes Stadium to enable the country host major events;

(b)    finalisation and launching of the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication’s Strategic Plan for the period 2014 to 2016 to refocus and enhance operations of the ministry;

(c)    developing the new structure of the ministry and realigning its functions to ensure effective service delivery;

(d)    operationalising the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) to enhance air navigation safety;

(e)    developing the draft revised National Transport Policy, as a step towards providing guidance to the stakeholders in the transport sector;

(f)    rehabilitating of railway infrastructure to enhance the bulk transportation of goods. We also revamped the operations of the Mulobezi Railway Line to enhance the movement of goods and people between the Western and Southern provinces;

(g)    activating the Chipata/Muchinji Railway Line as an alternative export route through the port of Nacala in Mozambique;

(h)    procuring and launching of a new passenger train called the Golden Jubilee – Michael Chilufya Sata Express Train  to ease the transportation of passengers;

(i)    continuing the implementation of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project with over 2,245 km of road being procured;

(j)    accelerating the implementation of the L400 road project to ease road congestion in Lusaka;

(k)    accelerating the implementation of measures aimed at facilitating the removal of the European Union (EU) ban on Zambian registered aircrafts;

(l)    facilitating the roll-out of 204 communication towers to enhance communication in underserved areas;

(m)    coordinating the implementation of the e-governance programme to enhance the delivery of public services;

(n)    rehabilitation of meteorological infrastructure and procuring of communication equipment; and

(o)    disseminating the Meteorology Policy to facilitate the coordinated delivery of meteorological services.

Sir, for the record, I wish to state that these projects would not have been possible without the constructive criticism and support provided by the hon. Members of this august House and, therefore, I thank them for their contributions and support.

Mr Chairperson, let me now focus on the budget proposals for 2015. In the roads sub-sector, the Government will continue to implement the Link Zambia 8,000 km, L400 and Pave Zambia 2,000 road projects. In order to ensure that resources are available for these projects, my ministry will actively engage the private sector through the public-private partnership (PPP) initiative. This will be accompanied by strengthening the operations of the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) as a strategy to enhance road safety. The investments in the road sector will not be sustained if we do not equally revitalise the railway sector. Consequently, my ministry will continue working with the Zambia Railways Limited (ZRL) and Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) to ensure that these two companies improve their services. Given the budget constraints, various options will be pursued to achieve this objective, including PPPs and smart partnership initiatives. I wish to further inform this august House that the Zambian and Tanzanian Governments will continue to collaborate to ensure that TAZARA becomes self-reliant. This will be facilitated by the review and implementation of the TAZARA Act to address the bottlenecks that have hindered the commercialisation of this company.

Sir, under water transport, our focus will be on the improvement of the water canals, procurement of water vessels and enhancing water safety navigation through enhanced legislation and patrols. These measures will be enhanced by decentralising maritime services through the development and operationalisation of harbours.

Sir, under the aviation sub-sector, my ministry will continue to enhance air safety navigation through the procurement and installation of the radar system, strengthening of the Zambia Air Services Training Institute (ZASTI) and CAA. The ministry will also continue to pursue the establishment of a national airline. My ministry will also coordinate the construction and upgrading of airports and selected aerodromes across the country to enhance access and at the same time contribute to reduced costs and travel time.

Mr Chairperson, the provision of reliable and accurate meteorological information is key to the development of various sectors of the economy. To this end, my ministry will procure storm warning radar equipment. The ministry will also continue to construct and rehabilitate meteorological infrastructure across the country in line with our policy of bringing service delivery closer to the people. The maintenance and calibration of meteorological equipment will also remain a priority.

Sir, my ministry recognises that ICT remains an important enabler of socio-economic development. To this end, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication will continue to coordinate the implementation of the e-governance programme as a strategy of enhancing access to government services and reducing the cost of doing business. This will include the extension of the Government area network to the provincial centres through the procurement and distribution of ICT equipment. In addition, the ministry will facilitate the continuation of the programme to roll out the construction of communication towers to all underserved areas in order to ensure that people have access to communication. In order to ensure adherence to all ICT legal and administrative requirements, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication will continue to provide support to the Zambia Information Communication and Technology Authority (ZICTA).

Mr Chairperson, the construction sector is booming and is an area which employs the majority of youths in our country. With the creation of new districts, my ministry will facilitate the construction of various infrastructures which include office blocks to house Government departments and institutions. This programme commenced in November, 2014 and will be implemented over a period of three years. Over 200 local contractors have already been engaged to implement this programme. This implies that we are not only creating wealth and jobs for the Zambian population but, most importantly, retaining resources within the boundaries of our country. To address the issue of quality of the infrastructure constructed, my ministry has, in collaboration with Cabinet Office introduced stringent measures to …

The Chairperson: Order, on my extreme right.

Mr Mukanga: … ensure that there is effective monitoring of the implementation of the projects at provincial and district levels.

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication will continue to implement programmes aimed at enhancing regional integration. Key among these programmes is the construction of the Kazungula Bridge, one stop border posts and development of Nacala Transport Corridor.

Sir, the recapitalisation of the Government Printing Department will also be prioritised in 2015. Our vision is to ensure that the Government Printing Department becomes the number one printer of choice. The ministry has made progress towards the achievement of this vision. It is my conviction that once fully recapitalised, the Government Printing Department will be able to handle all of the Government’s major printing jobs. It is now my sincere hope that the hon. Members of this august House will support the budget proposals of my ministry.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson thank you for the opportunity to add my voice to the debate which is currently on the Floor of the House. I will be very brief. I would like to focus on the policy statement of the hon. Minister which says that the ministry is the driver of economic growth and job creation. That is indeed true. Within that expectation are the key parameters of managing a complex economy. Transportation is very important to the development our economy. The movement of goods and services as well as people is key to the development of our economy. However, it seems that the ministry focuses on frivolous activities. The activities include the roadblocks which are set up to inspect vehicles for road licences. 

Laughter

Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, when you go to complex economies like the United States of America and Britain, are people stopped on the road just to inspect road licences on their vehicles? Look at the number of hours that we spend on the road waiting for policemen to look for the road licences. That particular activity does not belong to the Traffic Department of the Zambia Police Force. It squarely belongs to the Road Traffic and Safety Agency (RTSA)  which is the custodian of the annual payment of road licences. The agency has state of the art information and computer technology (ICT) equipment which it can use to properly manage the database of our vehicles. We do not have that many vehicles in Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, from the database, RTSA can easily trace drivers who have not renewed their road licences. We all have our addresses in the RTSA data base. If one has not renewed the annual road license, RTSA can easily follow up that individual. We need to put a stop to the frivolous, inefficient and corrupt activity of setting up roadblocks on our roads just to inspect vehicles for their road licences. The agency should be able to manage its database and follow up on the payment of annual road licences and stop this, for lack of a better word, ‘nonsense’, of road blocks to inspect road licences.

The Chairperson: You are right, the word ‘nonsense’ is not allowed. You can find a better word.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your guidance.  The licence inspections on our roads should come to an end because they are trivial. On our roads, we have patients being taken to hospitals and workers going to various destinations to offices. We also have students rushing to classes. Do the licence inspections make sense in terms of moving our economy forward? This definitely is poor management of our economy. We must change. We know that, on the RTSA Board, we have traffic officers who sit on that board. Let us bring this activity to a stop with immediate effect as we enter the new year.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, the agency can call all those who have not paid it for their road licences and give them a seven day ultimatum after a certain deadline.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, that can be done. It will enable us to be a little bit more efficient in our economy.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about Nalikwanda Road. It is 55 km. When is the road going to be made motorable? It is only 55 km. All that is needed is to make the road motorable. We were told in 2013 that the road would be tarred in 2014. Now it seems that the feasibility study for the road will be hopefully carried out in 2016. At the moment, the road is not passable. There used to be taxis and minibuses which used to go to Nalikwanda. That is not possible at the moment. The Government is punishing the poor peasants who use that road. They have to pay K150 if there is a vehicle going that end. From Lusaka to Mongu, which is 600 km, people pay K150 on a comfortable. The poor peasants have to pay K150 to travel a stretch of 55 km on Nalikwanda Road. The road must be made motorable in the short term. We have been talking about Nalikwanda Road for the past three years and nothing has been done. I hope that that the Government will make the road motorable while still waiting to carry out the feasibility study. The people in Nalikwanda also want to see minibuses and taxis. We have a high school there. When the school opens, how will the kids be taken there? If I was in Hon. Mukanga’s ministry, I would have worked on the road a long time ago.

Laughter

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much. I support the ministry’s budget.

Mr Ng’onga (Kaputa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to support the Vote on the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. I need to make certain observations on behalf of the people of Kaputa.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to start by talking about the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project, which is an important project that was launched by our late President in 2011 when we he came into power. Phase I of this project has gone on very well. 

Mr Chairperson, Kaputa was included in Phase I of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. There are two roads that were specifically mentioned in the plans for the project. One is the 225 km road that runs from Mporokoso to Kaputa. The other is the road that runs from Nchelenge into Chiengi and Kaputa. We are still waiting for the hon. Minister of the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to ensure that Phase I is completed. I was hoping that by now, works on the two roads which I referred to earlier would have started. 

Mr Chairperson, some roads which were not part of Phase I were worked on for reasons known to the leaders that were entrusted with the responsibility of implementing this particular programme. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, like the late President, the people of Kaputa are asking Hon. Mukanga to open up Kaputa so that it can be linked to the rest of the country. As it starts to rain, people will be failing to get to Kaputa. I wonder whether, as we go into the campaigns to elect our new President, …

Mr Mwila: Edgar Lungu, ulelanda.

Mr Mushanga: Bafwile baishiba ati tapali ekobaleya.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ng’onga: …Edgar Lungu, people will be managing to get to Kaputa because of the nature of the roads that we have.

Interruptions

Mr Ng’onga: Sir, I am sure that the technocrats who drive infrastructure development under this ministry are listening. The people of Kaputa are pleading with them to look at the two roads. We also want to enjoy the benefits of having good roads like the rest of the Zambians. The situation is unfortunate. 

Mr Chairperson, getting fertiliser to Kaputa is a big challenge. Yesterday, I was talking about fertiliser not having arrived into Kaputa because the transporters have refused to deliver to the area. They are saying that they cannot move from Kasama to Kaputa to deliver fertiliser because their vehicles will get damaged. There are thousands of farmers in Kaputa who need fertiliser for their crops. We are crying for a good road network in Kaputa.

Mr Chairperson, even before we have the said roads improved to tarmac or bituminous standard, we need some road maintenance especially between Mporokoso and Kaputa via Nsama. It is a pity that Hon. Dr Kasonde, who went to Kaputa recently, is not here. He spent about eight hours from Mporokoso to Kaputa on the road with about three to four punctures in a brand new Government vehicle. Such a journey is definitely unbearable. We plead with the technocrats to give us the attention that we deserve so that we can enjoy the benefits of having better roads like other people in this country.

Mr Chairperson, there is need for the maintenance of roads that lead into rural areas, not only in Kaputa, but also in Mununga and Chiengi. If you went into other areas like Nalikwanda, you will find that the roads there need maintenance. As we wait for the tarred roads, we need the roads to be maintained and made passable so that inputs can be delivered to the people.

Mr Chairperson, let me now look at the services of the Meteorological Department which is under the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. We do not have access to meteorological services in Kaputa. Our rains started as early as 2nd October, this year. In our area, we are unable to determine when the nearest lake will be filled up after it dries up because we have no access to the services of the Meteorological Department.

Mr Chairperson, the Communication Department of the ministry faces a number of challenges. Zambia is now rolling out the optic fiber. People are all over the country digging where the optic fiber is supposed to pass. In Kaputa, there is no activity in that regard when it also needs to be opened up. I do not know why those that were planning left out Kaputa. Kaputa is closer to the border with the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). If we will not be linked to the rest of Zambia, we will remain far behind when compared to other parts of the country. We cannot depend on the developments that are happening in the neighbouring DRC to take us forward.

Sir, let me now look the mobile phone communication. Yes, Kaputa as a Boma is serviced, but Nsama which is the next district has got a number of areas which still do not have mobile phone services. If you move out of Nsama into Mporokoso, you have a stretch of over 50 km where you cannot pick a phone call. 

Mr Chairperson, as I debate and talk about the negatives, let me also pay tribute to the Zambia Postal Services Corporation under this ministry. The Zambia Postal Services Corporation has done very well. It is not only Kaputa that is now being serviced, but also Mununga and Nsama. The rural dwellers are now able to access postal services. Keep it up. This particular department has done well in bringing the life of the rural dwellers to a reasonable level.

Mr Chairperson, as a person who comes out of Northern Province, I need to point out that we in the Northern Province …

Interruptions

Mr Chairperson: Order on my right! There is a lot of noise and the person debating is struggling to be heard. 

You may continue hon. Member.

Mr Ng’onga: Mr Chairperson, I know that the hon. Minister indicated that modern stadiums have been constructed. He also indicated that the Government has plans to construct more stadiums. Even us in the Northern Province desperately need a modern stadium. We have footballers. We have young boys and girls that would want to enjoy the benefits of having infrastructure of this nature. 

Mr Chairperson, the other project that I can talk about is the completion of the Kasaba Bay Airport. The construction of the Kasaba Bay Airport gobbled a lot of money, and I think that only 50 per cent or 60 per cent of the airport was constructed. In the last three years, the construction of this airport has remained static. No more work has been done on it. When the works at Kasaba Bay Airport are completed, the part of the Northern Province that borders Lake Tanganyika will be opened up to the outside world. This will also lead to growth in tourism and create job opportunities for the people that live in that area. I want the ministry that is entrusted with this responsibility to fund the construction works to quickly source for funds.  This project can now be called a white elephant that we have invested a lot of money in. 

Mr Chairperson, finally, I want to talk about the in land waterways. In the Northern Province and part of Luapula, we are blessed with water resources. As the ministry looks at the budget for purchasing modern equipment, I ask it to consider the northern part of the country for the provision of water transport vessels. The ministry should also source for equipment for unblocking blocked water systems. We have a lake called Lake Mweru, which has been drying up because its not receiving water from its tributaries. We have been asking for equipment that can help us to unblock our water systems for a long time. Without this lake, the people of Kaputa and surrounding areas will be subjected to poverty and misery. 

Mr Chairperson, as I wind up, I wish to congratulate the ministry for the work that it has done so far, and I encourage it to continue to do what is required going forward.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Chairperson, I would like to state that I support the Vote very seriously. 

Mr Chairperson, I attentively listened to the hon. Minister’s policy statement. Last time, my debate was disturbed when I was talking about canals. I would like to remind the Government and the hon. Minister that us the people in the Western Province and Kalabo, in particular, want our canals to be maintained.  Canals have been there for a long time, but the modern Governments have discontinued the programme of clearing and increasing the stretches of the canals. The year 2014 is ending, but we have not yet seen any works on our canals being done in Kalabo. If somebody is going to present some data on what has been done on the canals in Kalabo, I know that that data will have just been generated from some four-walled room somewhere in this country. There is nowhere in Kalabo where any works have been done on the canals this year. 

Mr Chairperson, let us realise that the livelihood of different people in this country depends on different factors. We appreciate the fact that the Government is constructing the Kalabo/Mongu Road. However, more needs to be done. The fact that we have relish to feed on does not mean that we do not need Nshima. 

Mr Mutelo: Tell them.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, we need Nshima too. Therefore, the canals are also important to us. 

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication is a very critical and strategic ministry in this country. It is a key driver of the economy. When you get on a vehicle and drive to Mongu, you will see the bad state of the road such that you will ask yourself that: What value is this road adding to the economy of this country? The road from Tateyoyo to Mongu is similar to the road that they used to call the hell run. Now we have the hell run from Tateyoyo to Mongu. We used to see some works being done on this road, but somewhere along the line in 2014, …

Mr Mutelo: They stopped.

Mr Miyutu: … the work stopped.  

Mr Mutelo: Stand still. 

Mr Miyutu: Sir, what are those who are in Government thinking? If this had happened in other places, may be a new contractor would have been engaged, but because this road is in the Western Province, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Kwahae!

Mr Miyutu: … the Government has left us to sort out this problem for ourselves. Those who are in Government should sort out the problem on our behalf. We seriously need this road to be in a good state. I know that even some buses which use this road just do so on humanitarian grounds. Let the Government bring a new contractor to work on that road. 

Mr Chairperson, the Katunda/Lukulu Road also needs attention.

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, we are also Zambians who need good bituminous roads in our area. 

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, the Kaoma/Kasempa Road …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: … also needs attention. This Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project must cover every part of this country. Imagine what would have happened if the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) had not started the construction of the Mongu/Kalabo Road? It means that there would be no road which would have been built under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project in the whole Western Province.  Why should we call it the Link Zambia 8,000 km Raod Project when we are not constructing roads in the Western Province? We also need to be covered under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project if we are to be referred to as Zambians. 

Mr Mutelo: Lukulu/Chitoko Road.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, we should not be Zambians just on paper. We want to be connected to the other parts of the country. We want to become first class Zambians too through road connectivity. 

Mr Chairperson, the Kalabo/Sikongo Road is another hell run. Buses used to go to Sikongo using that road, and it used to take just about an hour, but now, this route is used by oxcarts because it is very bad. The people in Sikongo are suffering. It takes more than three hours for an ambulance to move from Kalabo District to Sikongo. Are we saving lives in that area? 

Mr Chairperson, Sikongo is part of Nyengo, which is the hub of rice production. Clearly, the road which I am referring to is of great value to the area. 

Mr Mutelo: Hmmn. You can divert and go to Liuwa. 

Laughter 

Mr Miyutu: Sir, the people of Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency have never seen a road since time immemorial. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Sir, they only see roads when they go elsewhere. I remember some time back there was a feeder road which was highlighted by the district council, but nothing was done to it. The only roads we have are the ones which were created by God. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Maimwene roads.

Laughter 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, sometimes when we talk about the Barotseland Agreement, those who are in Government get annoyed. 

Mr Ndalamei interjected.

Mr Miyutu: Sir, they have no idea how we feel. Is it not a wonder that they do not frequent the Western Province?

Laughter 

Mr Miyutu: Sir, as we complain, those who are in Government must bear in mind the origins of the Western Province. The people of Western Province played a very big role in the fight for the Independence of this country. We need to bring back the patriotism which founded this country which has since died. 

Sir, they want us to dance and clean their shoes all in the name of unity and peace. That is not fair. If their shoes are clean, ours should be clean also. I know that before 20th January, 2015, some people will go to the Western Province and claim that they will do a lot of things for the people simply because they want votes.  Last time they went there they promised the people certain things which they did not deliver. We were promised that the Mongu Stadium would be constructed. Hon. Kambwili, if you go there now, you will not even be able to locate where the stadium is supposed to be constructed. 

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo: Yes, machachani.

Mr Miyutu: Sir, the place is simply a forest because it is in the Western Province.

Mr Chairperson, now we are being promised King Lewanika University just because we are heading towards the 20th January, 2015 election. 

Mr Mutelo: Sir, the money is not there in the Yellow Book.  

Laughter 

The Chairperson: Order!

I just want to advise Hon. Mutelo that he is not doing the right thing. Please, let us have order. 

Hon. Member for Kalabo Central, you may proceed. 

Mr Miyutu: Sir, let us be a real Government which can feel the pain of the people. 

Mr Mutelo left the Assembly Chamber. 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, for me, fifty years is more than enough. In 2009, I saw a clip of the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki which were bombed to the ground in 1945. You go there now and see what wonders are in the two cities.  

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the 
Chair]

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, when we ask for roads, they tell always tell us that feasibility studies are being conducted. The question is: When were feasibility studies for roads we are seeing in the cities done?  Coming to think of it, why should the feasibility studies for rural roads not be done at the same time the ones in cities are being done? This is terrible discrimination. We want roads and not feasibility studies. Let these feasibility studies come to an end. 

Laughter 

Mr Miyutu: Sir, we are now bored with the same answer.  Secondly, we are always being told that the resource envelope is limited. However, when it comes to Lusaka, these answers are not applicable. 

Mr Chairperson, we want feeder roads so that the remote parts are also opened up. These issues we are highlighting are the same issues which will be stated during the campaigns. Those campaigning will be promising the people feeder roads. 

Laughter 

Mr Miyutu: Sir, we are going to tell the people that some politicians have a habit of making promises which they fail to keep. A Government should be known for doing the right thing. 

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Miyutu: Sir, lastly, I would like to request the Government to look very seriously at the operations of the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). The operations of the RRU need to be enhanced. Certain roads in some districts become impassable during certain seasons making it very difficult for the RRU to shift the equipment to districts like Kalabo and Sikongo. If the RRU has some presence in each district, the rural areas will be opened up. 

Mr Sianga: Do not give them ideas. 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Chairperson, with these few words, I would like to support the vote. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mwila (Chipili): Mr Chairperson, thank you for allowing me …

Mr Mwale: SG

Laughter 

Mr Mwila: You will never be appointed as Secretary General (SG).

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: He was one.

Laughter 

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I recall that the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) came up with the Formula I Project before we took over Government in 2011. It did not plan it properly because it was in a hurry to get votes from the people.

Mr Chipungu: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: Bebeni 

Mr Mwila: Sir, fortunately, people properly analysed their actions and voted them out of the Government. Therefore, when we came into power we found that roads in the entire country were in a deplorable state. 

Sir, I was surprised to hear a hon. Member from the United Party for National Development (UPND) blaming the Patriotic Front (PF) Government for the state of the roads. It is the MMD which neglected the Southern and Luapula provinces. That is why the PF Government came up with the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ndalamei: Feasibility study.

Mr Mwila: You were a hon. Deputy Minister and you failed to repair a culvert.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Mr Kampyongo: Tell him!

Mr Mushanga: Even a wheelbarrow. 

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, this programme is in phases and we all know the roads in each phase. The PF Government has worked on the Mansa/Luwingu Road in Luapula Province. Work has also been done on the road from Mansa to Munganga as well as on the Kawambwa/Mushota Road. We also had to rehabilitate the Chembe/Mansa Road and Mansa/Kashikishi Road. The MMD failed to do all this work.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Sir, on that basis, we will be back in Government on 20th January, 2015.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: No question about it.

Mr Musonda: Tell them.

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, …

Mr Ng’onga: EL!

Mr Mwila: … someone was talking about the Western Province. I went to the Western Province last year and saw that the Sesheke/Senanga Road has been worked on.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mwila: Maybe they do not know.

Interruptions 

Mr Mwila: Sir, we continued with the work which the MMD was doing on the Mongu/Kalabo Road. We have not abandoned the people of the Western Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Sir, the people of the Western Province should not allow anyone to mislead them.

Dr Kaingu: They are listening!

Mr Ndalamei: They are listening!

Mr Mwila: Sir, maybe the people from the Opposition are blind. We have done almost all the township roads in Mongu town.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: He is blind.

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, we are moving forward with our development agenda. That is why the Opposition leader who is in Mansa has failed to attract a big crowd.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Sir, the people of Mansa have pledged their support to the PF and Hon. Edgar Lungu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushanga: He is coming.

Mr Ng’onga: Tell them.

Laughter 

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, if you go to the Copperbelt through Kitwe, …

Mr Shakafuswa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: … you will see how we have worked on the township roads.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwila: Sir, even in Ndola, people can see the great work we are doing. 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised

Laughter 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order. It is on record that I do not usually raise on points of order. 

Sir, is … 

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Shakafuswa: … is the debater, who is talking so eloquently, in order not to tell us that a lot of money which should have been spent on developmental projects has been misappropriated and gone into the pockets of the members of the Patriotic Front (PF)? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that you have adequately debated your point of order.

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, the Opposition has no facts. People on the ground are able to see what we are doing. We are working on the township roads everywhere in Lusaka.

Mr Lubinda: Kabwata.

Mr Mwila: Sir, we working on the roads in Kabwata and Chawama. Where else, Hon. Shakafuswa?

Mr Shakafuswa: Katuba?

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Sir, we are also working on the Kitwe/Chingola Dual Carriageway and the Pedicle Road. What can they tell us? The PF is coming back to this House after 20th January, 2015 …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: … under the leadership of Hon. Edgar Lungu.

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kalaba: We are back.

Laughter 

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Chairperson, …

Mr Mwale: Hear, hear!

Tell the truth.

Mr Pande: … I will be very brief. I will say nothing, but the truth because it is only the truth which sets one free. 

Sir, I stand here to speak on behalf of the people of the North-Western Province. I have a few observations and comments that I want to make. I am glad that the hon. Minister is listening and taking notes instead of writing notes to his colleagues.

Mr Chairperson, the Patriotic Front (PF) has simply continued where the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) left.

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Sir, I am telling the truth. They have continued … 

Interruptions 

Mr Pande: … the projects which the MMD started. That is commendable. I would like to talk about the roads in the North-Western Province.

Sir, the Government has been boasting about new roads being constructed in the country without having worked on even a single road in the North-Western Province.

Mr Chipungu: Nothing.

Mr Kalaba: Tell the truth.

Mr Pande: Sir, all the roads in the Western Province are in Phase III of the Link Zambia 8,000 Road Project. 

Mr Shakafuswa interjected.

Mr Pande: Sir, the Solwezi/Chingola Road should have been in Phase I.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Sir, the people of the North-Western Province are very upset with the way the PF Government is implementing its road construction projects. They will express their anger on 20th January, 2015. 

Mr Chipungu: In a big way.

Mr Pande: Yes, in a big way.

Mr Mwale: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Chairperson, there are many projects which are supposed to have been implemented in the North-Western Province. However, to this day, no contractor has moved on site. We want the contractors to move on site. 

Mr Muchima: We are tired of feasibility studies.

Mr Pande: Sir, we are tired of feasibility studies. How many times are feasibility studies for the Mumbwa/Kasempa Road going to be carried out? How can the Kawambwa/Kasempa, Lufwanyama/Kasempa and Chitokoloki/Lukulu roads all be under the feasibility study phase? We want these roads to be worked on.

Sir, there are some roads that are incomplete. The works on the Kalengwa/Kalulushi Road in Kasempa and Nyakulenga Road in Zambezi have been abandoned. These are supposed to be local roads which should be handled by the district. However, because the contractors are being engaged from Lusaka, the local authorities are failing to supervise the works on these roads. The Government should stop tendering for the roads in rural areas in Lusaka. Contractors should not be getting their instructions from Lusaka. In Kasempa, there are two roads which were badly done. The people from the local authority Government do not even know who the contractors who worked on those roads were because they were engaged in Lusaka. This should come to an end.

Mr Chairperson, the inspection which is carried out for road works is generally very poor in the country. Particularly in rural areas, there is no supervision. The contractors are just paid money without their works being inspected. 

Mr Chairperson, my colleague from Kaputa talked about maintenance. Both routine and periodic maintenance is not carried out on our roads. The Kasempa/Mumbwa Road has not been maintained for the past three years since the PF came into Government. 

Mr Mukanga: Tell the truth!

Mr Pande: Sir, I am telling the truth. Even yesterday, I was used the same road. It is in the same state. My nephew on the other side is saying that I should tell the truth. That is exactly what I am doing. My nephew knows who he is, Mr Chairperson. 

Laughter

Mr Pande: Sir, I think we should go back to the days of road camps. I think that will help us maintain our roads. I think we are failing to supervise the works because all the decisions are being made in Lusaka. You will find that even at provincial centres, there is no money to maintain or inspect the roads. What are we doing about this? We will continue spending money on the same roads because of lack of inspection and maintenance. Let us improve on that. 

Sir, I also want to talk about communication towers. The people of Kasempa, …

Dr Kaingu: And Mwandi!

Dr Musokotwane: And Liuwa!

Mr Mutelo: And Lukulu West

Mr Pande: … Mwandi, Liuwa and Lukulu West have suffered. Whenever a project begins, we are told that we are either Phase III or IV. We are never in Phase I. What is it like that? The other time, somebody from the right hand side of Mr Speaker was saying, “Iyo, tamwa votele bwino.” This means that the people who are represented by Opposition hon. Members did not cast their votes wisely. These are bad politics strategies. In 2008, the PF would have won the elections if its leader campaigned in the North-Western and Western provinces. In 2011, the late President decided to go to campaign in the Western and North-Western provinces. That is how the PF came into power. After the 2011 elections, the PF decided to neglect the very provinces which brought it into power. This will cost it on 20th January, 2015.

Interruptions

Mr Pande: Sir, it has totally neglected the people of North-Western Province with regard to the construction of roads and schools as well as the erection of communication towers. Any project that has been completed or which is taking place at the moment in the North-Western Province is under the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). Nothing is coming our way from the central Government. 

Mrs Kabanshi: Even electricity?

Mr Pande: Sir, the electrification projects are just on paper. I am talking about things which have been commissioned and are fully operational.   

Mr Chairperson, I would like the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to change its attitude towards the people of the North-Western Province. We are in the rainy season and the Solwezi/Chingola Road will be a death trap because of its state. There are big trucks which use that road. Without exaggeration, when you are driving on that road, every two minutes, you will come across trucks going in either direction. If you are driving a small vehicle, you will have to move out of the road to give way to the big trucks. This is very dangerous. It is sad that the PF Government has continued to neglect that road. It has been making promises without any work being done on that road. This is not enough. Let us see action from the ministry.

Sir, with these very few words, I support the Vote and encourage the hon. Minister to change his ministry’s attitude towards the North-Western Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Chairperson, I want to start by saying that infrastructure is a very important economic enabler. Therefore, the development of infrastructure must be strategic. I have been listening to talk about the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. My colleague from the alliance asked, “Link Zambia to what?” I think that there has been a lot of money which is being spent on infrastructure development. If the spending of this money is not strategic, it can easily become a waste. 

Sir, Zambia is blessed with eight neighbouring countries. I have few statistics with me that were put in our pigeonholes. Zambia’s gross domestic product (GDP) is about US$ 22 billion. On the eastern side, we have Tanzania with a GDP of about US$34 billion. Angola has a GDP of about US$121 billion. I will explain the implication as regards to infrastructure development. The Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) has a GDP of about US$30 billion. 

Sir, Angola’s economy is more than five times bigger than our economy. A country’s economy grows through trade. For example, if you are in a home and you are sell things worth K1,000 to each family member, you will still get K1,000. It will only change if you open the door and sell things to your neighbour. From the K1,000 that you had, you will make a profit of K50. Therefore, an economy grows through trade. The infrastructure in a country should be an enabler to economic growth.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, the economy of Angola ... 

Mr Mufalali: Linking the Bembas!

Mr Hamududu: … is over five times bigger than our economy. If we get just a quarter of that income, this country would be big. If you go to Zambezi, literally, you will hit a dead end. Why should the people of Mongu be talking about trading their goods such as cashew nuts and rice inland? Their market should have been in Angola. If we were strategic, we should have linked the economy to growth. By the way, the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is not in the Patriotic Front (PF) Manifesto. There was just one clever friend of mine who came up with the name. Since the PF did not have a serious plan, it just jumped on it.  

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: Sir, I know what I am talking about. It is my friend who came up with the name for the road project. We even talked before he told the PF members about it. When the PF came into power, its members were just grappling in the dark until someone came up with the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. What are they linking? We need to unblock the dead ends of this economy for it to grow. 

Sir, they have kept on pushing the hon. Minister of Finance to look for money for the development of infrastructure which is not adding value to the growth of the economy. Before coming up with plans to construct a road, an economic feasibility study should be carried out. We need to ensure that the country has infrastructure which will enhance the economy. Roads are like veins and arteries of the body. For someone to be healthy, all the parts of the body must be functional so that they add value to the body. This country is not linked to what matters around us.

Mr Chairperson, the western side is one of the richest parts of this country. It surpasses the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). The hon. Member for Chipili, Hon. Mwila, in his debate linked this country to poverty.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Sir, we want to link this country to growth and wealth. That is what we are offering in the United Party for National Development (UPND)/Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) alliance.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, if we are blessed and we win the Presidential by-elections on 20th January, 2015, we will revise the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. We will link this country to its neighbouring countries.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, we need to link this country to Angola through to Luena, because that is where the money is. Today, Angola is buying rice from Brazil.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, I am half Namibian. I have lived in Namibia before.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, when the war finished in Angola, President Samuel Nujoma was very strategic and quickly put a railway line and roads that connected Namibia through to southern Angola. Namibia has produced young billionaires through trade with Angola. Zambia which has a longer border line with Angola has received very little value from it and yet we are closer to that country. We supported Angola in the liberation struggle. We suffered when there was a war which lasted twenty five years in Angola. 

Dr Kaingu: Tell them!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, in Zambezi, the economy ends at the Zambezi River.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, there is need to link it to other parts of the country. We must link Chavuma and Ikeleng’i to Luanda because that is where the money is. We must build infrastructure which improves the country’s productive capacity.

Sir, I ….

Prof. Lungwangwa: On 20th January.

Mr Hamududu: … dreamt that we might be that side (referring to the hon. Government’s side) soon. I hope Hon. Professor Lungwangwa will come on board because … 

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: … we shall endevour to do the right thing.

Mr Chairperson, during one of your Committee’s tours, we went to Kipushi Border which is near Solwezi. It is a wonderful trade spot. Our friends in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) do not grow food. They just buy it. Therefore, the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project should have had a number of projects in the North-Western Province. We need to properly link our country to the DRC.

Sir, during my campaign tours, I will tell the people of Luapula Province that we will link them to the DRC so that they can become rich. That is what we need. Not linking people within the same house and having them share K1,000.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, we have also heard about the L 400 Road Project in Lusaka which is a fiasco. The Government must build modern roads in Lusaka that should replace Chilumbulu and Burma roads. Since there is too much congestion, some people might want to walk or cycle to town, but there are no cycle paths or walkways on the sides of our roads. They are just increasing the space for those people that have cars. What about the majority of the Zambians who want to cycle to town? As the town is becoming congested, we also need different modes of transport. It is actually healthy to go to work using a bicycle. Some people in developed countries cycle to work. Hon. Chikwanda, I thank you for that hand shake as I was leaving for New York for a meeting. After my meeting which was sponsored by the European Union (EU), I spent two days there. I noticed that the people in New York use bicycles a lot. This is healthy and hassle free because they do not need to drive in congestion.

Sir, the PF Government must revise the design of the Chilumbulu and Burma roads. They must build modern roads which should have cycle paths and walkways. In future, I would like to ride a bicycle to Parliament because it is healthy. I want to live long like my uncle, Hon. Chikwanda. Hon. Zulu and I used to jog to Arcades, but we stopped because we were afraid of being hit by cars. My stomach has now grown because I have not been exercising. We need to build better roads in this century. We have educated people so we must do the right things.

Mr Chairperson, the Government is expanding the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) without doing any work to the Nationalist Road. That road must have four lanes. The investment at the UTH will not make sense if they do not expand the Nationalist Road because a patient might die on the way to the hospital because of congestion on that road. They should cut those trees so that there can be four lanes on that road. So, the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project which my brother, Hon. Mwila, the one hour Secretary-General for PF talked about, …

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: … will not be a success. He refused that position because he realised that the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project will not link this country to any productivity.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Sir, I have already stated that infrastructure is an enabler to economic expansion. A person can make money through different ventures in Lusaka because the city’s population has increased. When my children wanted to tour Lusaka, I told them that money was needed for them to do that. The money which is made at the Basilica is equal to our budget. State House must become a tourist attraction. We need a good road leading to State House so that tourists can go there and take pictures. Other places that can be made tourist attractions are houses of our former leaders like Nkumbula and Kapwepwe. There are former liberation fighters who want to tour Lusaka, but because of the congestion, they are discouraged from doing so. This is money that we losing because they are supposed to spend money at every spot they want to see. Lusaka should be redesigned so that its tourism prospects are improved. I was shocked to discover that the majority of the tourists who visit Liberty Island are Americans. Through tourism, Lusaka can create so much money and jobs for the young people. When I am at the National Assembly Motel, I do not have time to wash my car. Thus, a car wash being run by young people can make a lot of money at the National Assembly Motel.

Mr Habeenzu: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, some entrepreneurs can make money by setting up a gym at the National Assembly Motel. It will also help us to stay healthy. Those in Government should learn to think outside the box. As I stated, infrastructure is an enabler for economic growth and employment creation. A car wash can also be put up right here at Parliament as a way of creating jobs for young people. My car is so dirty because I have no time to go to Longacres to have it washed. What kind of town is this? Engineers are under trail. In the alliance, we have the best engineers. We have people like Hon. Simbao and Hon. Mooya.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, we will redesign Lusaka and create permanent jobs. For example, we will set up more car washes and gyms in Lusaka so that we create permanent jobs. That is why they are saying that those vendors …

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamududu: I will teach you what to do in the streets.

Prof. Luo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for according me the opportunity to raise a point of order. I am on record as not been in the habit of raising points of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: Sir, is the debator who is debating so well and is …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Luo: … in fact probably one of the few on your left that debates intellectually …

Mr Livune: Question!

Prof. Luo: … in order to continue talking about an alliance that is non-existent? I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the Chair is unable to make a ruling because that alliance maybe within the peculiar knowledge of the people talking about it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, Zambians must learn to work together. Having celebrated our Golden Jubilee, we now need to start working together. We have a jubilee alliance in place which shall emerge victorious in the election. In Kenya, the Jubilee Alliance of Young People won the elections. 

In conclusion, Sir, I wish to urge my colleagues to invest in infrastructure that adds value to country and expands the economy. The economy has been stagnant for a long time. When we say that we shall grow this economy by over 10 per cent we mean it. I have just explained a bit on how we shall grow the economy when we get into power. Next time, I wish I could be given one hour to speak. Give me five bottles of water and allow me to speak for one or two hours here, I will unpack our economic agenda. Our economic agenda is simple, straightforward, smart and focused. We will create jobs. Within Parliament, I can create jobs. I can go near the shopping malls and create decent jobs and not just those which involve our people carrying around shovels. I wish I had more time.

With these few words, Sir, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me an opportunity to wind up debate and say a few things.

Sir, I would like to state that the issues regarding roadblocks which were brought up by Hon. Professor Lungwangwa are the ones we are trying to address presently. What we are trying to do as the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is to sort out the issues using information communication technologies. We want to digitise the number plates and licences so that we can easily follow up cases involving erring motorists. We want to use technology to change the lives of everybody for the better.

Sir, we will work on the Nalikwanda Road soon. As regards the state of the Kasaba Bay Airport, all I can say is that we are looking at ways of improving the state of our airports.

Sir, Hon. Miyutu talked about canals. He said that he wants canals in the Western Province to be cleared. I wish to inform him that we have already procured about sixteen dredgers. The dredges will be distributed everywhere in Zambia where canals are found.

Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project is a brain child of His Excellency the late Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. May his soul rest in peace.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, he wanted to ensure that we link up the different parts of the country first before connecting it to the outside world. What we are talking about are serious issues. The Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD) failed to link up Zambia in twenty years. The United Party for National Development (UPND) has no clue about what it takes to link up Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, those in the UPND have never been in Government. The so called ‘Jubilee Alliance’ is a chilingalinga. It is a snake with two heads which eats itself up and blows up. Come 20th January 2015, it will blow up.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, this is because the PF will continue developing this country. The people Zambia have a lot of confidence in the PF. If they are banking on the perceived confusion which they are seeing in the media, they will be in for a rude shock because things have changed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, we have a presidential candidate who is Hon. Edgar Lungu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, I wish to inform those in the Opposition that there will be continuity after 20th January, 2015. Even this budget we are passing today was drafted by PF.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, how can they want to come and champion our budget?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, works on the Sikonga/Kalabo Road are on our list. Works on the Kalabo/Mongu are very expensive, but we are still carrying them out.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, works on the Kaoma/Kasempa Road are on our list. Are they not able to see what we are doing?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, I hope that they are understanding what I am saying.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, we are doing everything possible to ensure that that we connect the different parts of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, the Livungu Canal is being worked on.We are connecting Livungu to Shang’ombo so that through that canal, we can trade with Angola. I personally went on the ground to check on how the project was progressing. The works on our roads are inspected every month. We know what we is happening.

Hon. Opposition Member: Kazungula!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, the people cannot trust the chilingalinga because it will mess up things.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, the works which we carried out on Kazungula Bridge are there for everybody to see. We have good engineers in the PF. We are connecting the different parts of Lusaka and Mongu. Mongu will never be the same gain. If you go to Mongu today, you will be surprised. If you went there ten years ago during the MMD regime, you will be shocked with the development which you will find there. You would be thinking you are in Europe because things are changing.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Sir, there is development taking place in the different parts of the country. 

Mr Chairperson, we will soon be working on the Katunda/Lukulu Road. The project is there in the Yellow Book. We are committed to the development of this country. We are not working based on complaints being made by hon. Members. We are working according to our own plans. 

Mr Hamududu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

That is the last point of order.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, you know me very well. I stand only on serious points of order. Is the hon. Minister in order to refer to the alliance as chilingalinga? A chilingalinga is a snake with two heads.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Sir, when you hit such a snake on one side, it goes to the other side. Is the hon. Minister in order to call the alliance with one presidential candidate Hakainde Hichilema, a chilingalinga and yet PF has two presidential candidates Edgar Lungu and Miles Sampa which makes them a chilingalinga? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that since nobody has filed nomination papers at this point, I am unable to make a ruling on that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Thank you, Mr Chairperson, when I came to Parliament for the first time, I was told that chilingalinga is a snake which eats itself up.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Sir, the chilingalinga I am talking about has one head in the MMD and the other one in UPND. If today you are saying that there is only one head in UPND then what are you doing in that chilingalinga as MMD?

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: Why should be taken for a ride? It is important that you understand …

Laughter
    
The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!

I think we have had a lot of education on chilingalinga. May you continue with your debate hon. Minister. 

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for your guidance. In terms of communication, we are doing all we can to ensure that we put up towers all over the country. We will also do everything possible to ensure that jobs are done qualitatively. 

Sir, on the issue of the railway lines, we are thinking of connecting our railway line to Angola through Jimbe. We are also working on a system through which we hope to connect the Tanzania-Zambia Railway (TAZARA) line to Chipata and then Nacala. Then we also want to connect Nseluka to Mpulungu.

Mr Sikazwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Sir, we are carrying out works on the Mpulungu Harbour so that we can connect to Burundi. So, we are not lost. We are doing all we can to ensure that we develop the road and rail network. Everything is on course, and we know that the people of Zambia have so much confidence in us because of what we have done so far. So, we will try to maintain that confidence so that come 20th January, 2015, the people will vote for nobody else, but the PF candidate so that we can continue with the legacy left behind by late President Michael Sata.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 51/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 51/02 (Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication – Civil Aviation Department – K5, 009,082)

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I know why there is no allocation for all the programmes under this Vote, except for the one on Salaries.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, these programmes have been moved to another Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 51/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 51/03 (Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication – Meteorological Department – K25,480,766)

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, on page 731, …

The Deputy Chairperson: We have not reached that page yet. The last page under that Vote is 725.

Vote 51/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 51/07 (Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication – Buildings Department – K135,074,095)

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I hope I am on the right Vote. I seek clarification on Programme 1012, Activity 184 – construction of Third Republican President’s House – K9,303,800, Activity 191 – Construction of Fourth Republican President’s House – K500,000 and Activity 397 – Construction of Fifth Republican President’s House – K1,500,00 and now, we will be having the sixth President in 2015. May I know if the Government will also be constructing the house for the sixth Republican President?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, unless the rule or the law is changed, we will continue to construct these houses because that is their entitlement.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1002. From what we have been discussing since we started the Budget debate, it is clear that this country has severe resource constraints. The Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, being a mover of economic development, needs to get as much funding as is possible. 

The Chairperson: What is your question?

Mr Lufuma: Sir, I am getting to that.

The Chairperson: The preamble must be very brief.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, the money that has been allocated to all the activities under Programme 1002 is a lot and could assist us in developing the Lukulu/Mumbezhi/Manyinga Road. Is it not feasible for the Government to utilise this money on road works instead of allocating it towards these small ceremonial activities?

Mr Mukanga: Mr Chairperson, this is an activity-based Budget, and so, there is no way we can scrap off Independence Day Celebrations and take the money to Lukulu. These activities were being catered for under Human Resource. So, they are not new. The project that the hon. Member has mentioned already has an allocation in the Yellow Book.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 51/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 21 – (Loans and Investments − Ministry of Finance – K7,551,674,077) and VOTE 37 − (Ministry of Finance – K1,695,194,773). 

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity to present my policy statement on the 2015 Estimates of Expenditure for the Ministry of Finance. In my debate, I will focus on Votes 21 and 37. 

The Ministry of Finance has the mandate to perform statutory functions including the preparation of the National Budget, economic management, resource mobilisation, national development planning and financial management responsibilities. Further, the ministry is responsible for the management of public resources in a transparent and accountable manner for sustainable national development. In this regard, the ministry seeks to achieve the following goals:

(a)    to achieve sustainable macroeconomic growth, stability and well coordinated socio-economic development;

(b)    to be transparent and accountable in the mobilisation and management of public resources; and

(c)    to ensure the availability of reliable and timely socio-economic data for national planning and evidence based decision-making.

Mr Chairperson, Vote 21 contains contributions and subscriptions to international organisations, counterpart funding to donor aided projects, financial restructuring, recapitalisation of state owned enterprises and financing of infrastructure development, particularly in the transport and energy sectors.

Mr Chairperson, K7.5 billion has been proposed under Vote 21 with the following details:

(a)    K85.7 million is for payment of contributions to regional and international organisations;

(b)    K214.8 million is for projects such as the Citizens Economic Empowerment Fund, Cancer Diseases Hospital Phase II project and youth skills training and development; and

(c)    K1.8 billion relates to the recapitalisation of Government institutions. Under this programme, K328.8 million has been set aside for the recapitalisation of state owned enterprises and the creation of the Sovereign Wealth Fund, while K600 million has been provided for electricity generation, transmission and distribution infrastructure. A further K500 million has been set aside for infrastructure in the newly formed districts and province.

Sir, the Government has proposed to spend K5.5 billion on road infrastructure under the Road Development Agency (RDA).

Mr Chairperson, let me now bring out the salient features of Vote 37. The 2015 estimates of expenditure being presented before you reflect the core functions and mandate of the ministry. In order to accelerate the development agenda for the country, the ministry has budgeted a total amount of K1.7 billion under Vote 37. Notable expenditure under Vote 37 includes K463.3 million as grants to support institutions such as the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), Zambia Public Procurement Authority (ZPPA), Financial Intelligence Centre, National Road Fund Agency (NRFA) and Revenue Appeals Tribunal, to mention, but a few.

Sir, K648.5 million is the employers’ share of statutory obligations for all civil servants which is centrally budgeted for under my ministry. A further K165.9 million has been set aside for personal emoluments for all constitutional post holders. In addition, my ministry has set aside K50 million for the dismantling of arrears that were accumulated by Government ministries prior to 2002.

Mr Chairperson, I have also set aside K102.7 million for the Public Financial Management Reforms. This is line with the Government’s commitment to strengthen public financial management. Allow me to comment on some of the major reforms to be undertaken under this programme. Under a specific component of revenue administration, support will be channeled to enable the ZRA to fulfill its regulatory requirements of verifying the accuracy of mining tax returns and improving the institutions monitoring capabilities. It will also bring into one system all the reporting obligations of mining companies to the Government’s oversight institutions. Other areas of support will be channeled towards integrating planning and budgeting and strengthening the Integrated Financial Management Information System (IFMIS) and cash management.

Mr Chairperson, further support will also be channeled to the procurement reforms aimed at enhancing transparency and accountability in the procurement systems. The reforms will also strengthen management of procurement information. In line with decentralisation, procurement units have been established in ministries, provinces and spending agencies. This entails that the ZPPA has assumed the role of a regulatory and oversight body.

Mr Chairperson, I hope that the statement and explanations have been elaborate enough for hon. Members. I now recommend Votes 21 and 37 for the favourable consideration and approval of this august House.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, I have no choice but to support the Vote for the Ministry of Finance, especially that the hon. Minister and I have a very good relationship beyond this House. So I will be biased as I go into the issues to do with this ministry.

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Mind those loud consultations on my left.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Finance, as expressed by the hon. Minister in his policy statement, provides economic leadership in our country. Therefore, I have a few observations for the attention of the hon. Minister and country in general.

Mr Chairperson, experience has shown us that our system is not framed in such a way that we can produce the results that we intend to. You can have a hard working hon. Minister of Finance like Hon. Chikwanda, but still fail to achieve a lot because of structural issues.

Sir, from the time we did away with the National Commission for Development Planning (NCDP), there are some functions that are so important for economic leadership that we have lost. 

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: You see, they are on the way.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue, hon. Member, I am following attentively.

Mr Hamududu: Yes, Mr Chairperson, they are on the way out. They want to come to the side were we presently are.

Mr Mutale: Question!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Chairperson, the overall planning, monitoring and evaluation function at national level is very weak. The hon. Minister of Finance must be concerned that even when the budget has been growing over the years, the impact on the country’s development has not been growing. The problem is the structure which we have. I think this country has done itself a very big disservice by doing away with the apex planning, monitoring and evaluation unit which was the NCDP. I think we went to the excesses, to think that having such a department in place was being too socialist. There are many fully fledged markets economies that have these important units. In South Africa, the unit is headed by one of the most experienced personalities, Mr Trevor Manuel, who is that country’s former Minister of Finance. 

Sir, at one time, you sent me to the South African Parliament for two days and I saw this arrangement works. Mr Trevor Manuel with all his experience like Hon. Chikwanda, heads the planning, monitoring and evaluation unit that advises the President on how to deal with some of the deficiencies in the ministries. Today we have a lot of implementation deficits in our ministries. It is not necessarily the lack of money in these ministries that is making them not to have the impact that we want them to have. It is basically because of the lack of a unit that has the political clout to whip these ministries. At the moment the Ministry of Finance is at the same level with other ministries. Therefore, politically the hon. Minister of Finance’s hands are handicapped. He cannot whip other ministries to be in line with the economic agenda of the country. Recently, the Ministry of Finance had to issue a statement that the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication through its agencies needed to stop signing new contracts hurriedly. The contracts for new roads are ordinarily supposed to be evaluated by another institution so that, like I was debating on the previous Motion, even road construction can be more strategic and can add value. If we had a planning commission, we would begin to align our projects to high impact programmes that produce results. 

Mr Chairperson, I have said it many times on the Floor of the House that, the budget of this Government, under the stewardship of Hon. Chikwanda, has actually grown. He has done everything possible to avail money for the country’s development projects. If you check the Budget for 2011 and this Budget, you will notice the increase. There are very few countries that double a budget in three years. In this country we have doubled it. The country’s infrastructure is in a dilapidated state despite a lot of money being availed to the different ministries. My colleagues have been complaining about poor road infrastructure in the rural areas and yet the hon. Minister of Finance has been offloading a lot of money to the different ministries. There are deficiencies in the implementation of the projects. The Rural Roads Unit is such a very ineffective unit. Government officials are just busy gallivanting and picking allowances. They are doing very little to improve rural roads in our country.

Sir, it is important that we go back to the way things used to be done in the past. There are countries that we taught. All these countries with smart economies like South Africa and Namibia have the planning units. The planning commission is a handy tool which the President can use to take the country forward. The President cannot be advised properly just by one fellow, the economic advisor. He needs to get advice from a unit of professionals. The NCDP housed the Central Statistical Office (CSO) which generates data so that the decisions made were evidence based. Today the ministries are on a rampage of guess work. We want our policies to be supported by evidence. The planning commission is better placed to house the CSO so that we can have updated statistics for budgeting and programming.

   Sir, these days information about the economic is not readily available. Thus, some decisions are being made based on guess work. Lately, I have been receiving calls from across the country from people who want the alliance to come into power.

   Sir, it is possible for the Social Cash Transfer Programme to alleviate poverty from this country. If we use statistics, we can actually begin to do the right things. At the moment, the hon. Ministers seem to be doing things as they please especially those who like making noise in the House. This is because they are going out of Government. If they had information from a planning commission, they cannot make noise like that. Sir, those ones there (Pointing at the Hon. PF Members).

Interruptions 

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, may you please consult less loudly.

Mr Hamududu: Look at them.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, on my extreme right.

Mr Hamududu: Sir, the planning commission would have been listening to Parliament Radio and would have advised the President to listen more to Parliament in order to govern effectively. How can Members of Parliament from the Ruling Party be making noise in the House.

Sir, I want to commend the hon. Minister for producing the Planning and Budgeting Policy. However, I wish to state that the implementation of the Budgeting and Planning Act will not be effective until we have a planning commission in place. Hon. Mulusa the former Member of Parliament for Solwezi brought a Motion on the Floor of this House calling for the creation of a planning commission. I was very disappointed when this House did not pass the Motion. With a planning commission in place, the President will find it easy to know those who are not doing the right things. I was shocked that after fifty years of Independence, we rejected such a Motion in this House. That was a big disservice to our country. There is a premium on planning. 

Sir, by not planning properly, we have already created serious problems in the ministry. For example, the functions of the population unit, have been reduced. The hon. Minister actually recognised the importance of population data when planning. Zambia and Africa’s population structure requires us to do the right things. It is important to note that the majority of our people are young. Fifty per cent of our population is eighteen years and below. Therefore, in our planning, we should focus on addressing the challenges of the young people. If we do not do that, we shall encounter problems. Teenage pregnancies, early marriages and the abuse of alcohol will be the order of the day. You invest according to the population structure. Currently, we are investing more in those who are above eighteen years.

Sir, the planning commission can whip all the ministries to push money into programmes that are smart and have an impact on the young population. If we do not do that, we will not achieve the demographic dividends. 

Mr Chairperson, I want to say to Zambia in particular and Africa in general, that we are not doing the right things. We are not using the population data and dynamics to plan. Planning, budgeting and everything we do must address the people. Our people must count in our planning and development processes. If we fail to do this, we will be wondering why we are having nice malls, but the social indicators are despicable. We are not using the population dynamics information in our planning.

Mr Chairperson, Zambia and Africa are missing an opportunity. You have to invest in young people before we have a serious population explosion. We are not saying that people must be told how many children they must have. If we invest in the education of our young people, we will invest in reducing gender inequality and the young people themselves will reduce their fertility levels.

Sir, demographic dividends will only come when these children enjoy high impact programmes. If we do not do this, Africa will be plunged into a demographic disaster. The alliance shall reintroduce the planning commission. The commission will have professionals from all the fields so that we do the right things. The professionals will advise ministries and the President. These days, I see the ministries do a lot of wrong things. 

Sir, we shall use performance management systems to address the existing implementation deficits. We think that to help the hon. Minister of Finance get high impact from the money he gives out to the ministries, there is need to augment the release of money with performance contracts. We can actually legislate the existence of performance contracts. Other countries have legislated the existence of performance systems. Once you do that, you will discover that the dead wood that are not fit or compatible to work in the Civil Service with low levels of output will be removed professionally because a performance system actually weeds out the non-performers. 

Mr Chairperson, today, there is some dead wood that is affecting the performance of some professional civil servants. The 10 per cent dead wood is draining the Civil Service. They have brought a bad name on the Civil Service.
Since the time is over for the PF and we are getting into Government, …

Mr Bwalya: Question!

Mr Hamududu: … on 20th January, 2015, we shall introduce and legislate performance based systems. We will not release money without performance expectations so that only those who can deliver in the Civil Service. We will not fire anybody. They will fire themselves.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Hamududu: Sir, those who do not meet the performance threshold, like the one saying question, will exit the system.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Sir, this will include Parliament. Some hon. Members do not know the role of Parliament. That is why the make so much noise in the House. There are performance systems in even for hon. Members. If you make too much noise in the House, when elections come, you are voted out of your seat. We need performance systems at every level. Even after a hon. Member debates, there should be a way of appraising him or her. For instance, you can get a print out of what I said when I take my seat and assess my debate. I have provided high powered points. This is performance. This is how everyone should debate. Whenever you stand up, all cylinders must heat up and within a short time, you must produce the right output. That is the thesis which I am submitting to the House today. The thesis which I have delivered within 15 minutes can change the country. 

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Chairperson, I would like to add my voice to the debate which is currently on the Floor of the House. I will be quite brief. First of all, I would like to commend the hon. Minister for increasing the capability of the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) to monitor tax compliance. This is very important. We have seen in the past how the country has been losing revenue especially from the mines that have sophisticated technology to deal with their finances in such a way that our Ministry of Finance and, ZRA in particular, are not able to establish the amount of revenue that is generated by the same mines. So, building capacity for the ZRA to be able to dig deeper into the financial undertakings of the mines is something that needs to be commended.

Mr Chairperson, I would also like to talk about the issue of the management of public resources by the ministry.

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Ms Imenda: I want to …

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: I had earlier made a ruling that no more points of order will be allowed.

Hon. Government Members: The last one.

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue, Ms. Imenda.

Ms Imenda:  Mr Chairperson, on the issue of the management of public resources, the ministry is supposed to play a supervisory role.

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, Sir.

Ms Imenda: The ministry is supposed to be the captain, if you like, of the ship.

Mr Mwila: On a point of order, sir. It is very important.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I am reluctantly giving you your point of order, emphasis on reluctantly.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise this important point of order.

Is Hon. Mukanga Yamfwa, who is Acting Leader of Government Business, in order to remain quiet or mute without informing this House that the High Court of Zambia has ruled today that Edgar Lungu is the sole candidate for the Patriotic Front (PF)?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that we are not privy to what is happening in the High Court.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue hon. Member.

Mr Mushanga: Edgar!

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson,  as a member of the Public Accounts Committee (PAC), I think  that the Ministry of Finance is not supervising the controlling officers in ministries and, therefore, on the management of public resources, the ministry should jack up its supervisory role so that we do not lose much money through financial irregularities. 

Mr Chairperson, we have noticed that the members of staff at the Ministry of Finance are able to cater adequately for their staff loans. When it comes to big ministries like the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and the Ministry of Health which are scattered all over the country, their members of staff are finding it very difficult to access loans because they are only given so little and yet the staff at the Ministry of Finance have access to many staff loans. When members of staff of other ministries apply, they are put on lists that take three or four years before a loan can be accessed. The Ministry of Finance staff can get several loans at the same time. I think that the Ministry of Finance should not be so selfish by just giving its own staff loans. It should also consider staff in other ministries.

Mr Chairperson, I would also like to comment on the issue of the Citizen Empowerment Fund (CEC). I have seen that there is an allocation of K82,802,535. People are still failing to access this fund.  In Limulunga, the District Commissioner (DC) asked the people to apply for funds through his office from the CEC. The people who pushed in their applications have been waiting for funding for a long time. The people are now asking me their hon. Member of Parliament about this money when the officers who are managing this fund are based in the office of the DC. This fund is being used as a political tool. What does economic empowerment got to do with the DC?  We are aware that the DC is a Civil Servant, but at the same time, he seems to be a tool for political manipulation. Therefore, associating this fund with the DC raises a lot of eye brows and causes confusion. The Ministry of Finance should find an objective way to administer this fund and not through the DC’s office, especially in the rural areas. 

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I support the Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity, and I will be brief.

Mr Chairperson, I want to start by saying that this is one Vote that I have never understood. I happen to have worked in the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication, but still never understood this Vote. I never understood this Vote because most of the items under this Vote belong to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. I have always argued that it is cumbersome for the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to access money through this Vote. If you look at Vote 20, which is under the same Head – Loans and Investment, but falling under the Local Government and Housing Ministry, you will find that the items have been properly allocated to the right ministry. However, one wonders why in this case, we do not want to allocate these programmes to the right ministry. It is very difficult for the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication to start answering some of the questions that might arise due to some of these programmes that are falling under this ministry. I have always said that I do not see the difficulty in putting these programmes and the money under the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication instead of them being catered for under the Ministry of Finance. After all, the Ministry of Finance is a very busy ministry.

Mr Chairperson, I happen to have worked at the Ministry of Finance as Deputy Minister, and I also worked at State House as an hon. Deputy Minister. I also worked in two other ministries. However, I found out that the mothers of all ministries are State House and the Ministry of Finance. The point I am raising is that the Ministry of Finance is such a busy ministry, and one wonders why it has to hold on to these programmes, which must be rightfully put under the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication.  I know that the Ministry of Finance says that these programmes are given to it by the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication. Why are these programmes not falling under the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication? I say this because when we start raising questions, the hon.  Minister of Finance may not be able to know the answers because only the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication really knows the details of these programmes. Having that prior knowledge, it becomes frustrating for me to see the hon. Minister of Finance struggling to give proper answers on these items. If it is possible, I would really like the hon. Minister of Finance to reconsider whatever reasons are given to keep these programmes under the Ministry of Finance instead of the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication.  These reasons are not satisfying to me, and I believe that they are not satisfying to many other hon. Members of Parliament. I would like the hon. Minister of Finance to consider the idea that there is no need to hold on to these programmes. They should be put under the allocation to the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication.  

Mr Chairperson, I have seen that there are a lot of programmes falling under the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. I remember having said on the Floor of this House that the money allocated in this Budget to this project is not enough. The money from within this country is not enough to do the roads under this project. Therefore, I would like to tell the hon. Minister that there is still time and chance to increase the allocation to this project if we have to see a lot of progress before 2016. There is still time to increase the allocation to road works. If we do not increase the allocation, we are going to see the construction of many roads come to a standstill. It will not be good for the Government to start giving excuses, especially the excuse of lack of money, for failing to complete certain projects. Therefore, it is important for the hon. Minister to come and clear this point. He should reassure me that there is enough money for the completion of all the programmes that have been put in this budget. I put it to the hon. Minister that having looked at this money that he has allocated to the road sector, which is K5.6 trillion, I can safely say that it is not enough for the road works for next year. I am looking forward to the completion of the works on the Mbala/Nakonde and Kasama/Mbesuma/Isoka roads.  I am also looking forward to the completion of the works on the Kasama/Mporokoso/Kaputa and Kasama/Luwingu/Mansa roads.  I am also looking forward to the completion of my favourite road, the Pedicle Road. When I look at the money that has been allocated to the road works, I do not see the works on these roads being completed before 2016. 

  Sir, if I am wrong, I will be very glad to be told that I am and that these roads will be completed. This is what Zambians would love to hear. I know that at present there are certain roads that are in problems and a lot more under question marks. Works on these roads have not been moving and I really do not know where the problem is. Is it money or contractual problems? 

Sir, personally, I am concerned about two issues concerning this Vote. Firstly, most of the programmes, about 99 per cent of them, are under the wrong ministry. Secondly, the money that has been allocated is not enough to complete the road works. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Chairperson, it is always a joy to listen to hon. Members of Parliament like Hon. Hamududu debate because they are very resourceful. All I can say is that some of the ideas which have been expressed by the hon. Members will be taken on board since they are quite legitimate. 

Mr Chairperson, I would now like to look at some specific issues. The existence of planning commission used to create conflicts in the past. This is why, in the wisdom of our predecessors, they brought back the planning function to the Ministry of Finance so as to avoid disharmony and disconnects. Sometimes there is a disconnect between the plans and the resources available. Our plans should reflect the resources availability. 

Sir, the hon. Member for Senga Hill wants a much bigger allocation to infrastructure development, particularly the road sub-sector. Unfortunately, we have serious budgetary limitations. We are running this Budget on serious deficit. 

Mr E. C. Lungu entered the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Minister, you may continue. 

Mr Chikwanda: Sir, the allocations must be seen in the context of inadequate resources available. We must also strike a balance between various other requirements of development such as the road sub-sector, which is crucial for infrastructure development and enables development to take place in the republic and our other needs. We also need to invest prominently in the field of education because it is the only way nations enhance the productive capacities of their citizens. We also have to invest in the health sector because a morbid population cannot be productive. Therefore, we are faced with a delicate balancing act. 

Sir, I wish to suggest that when we come up with the Planning Budgeting Bill, Parliament has a very close look at it before it comes to the House for enactment. We must ensure that Parliament is involved in a more meaningful way in the budgeting process other than the oversight role which it is assigned, which is more or less equivalent to absent landlordism. 

Sir, we cannot pretend that we do not have difficulties in the system. Financial controls need to be improved upon. Sometimes at the Ministry of Finance we deploy very quickly the services of the auditing unit to make sure that things are being done properly and to prevent scams from being perpetrated so that we reduce the workload of the Auditor-General. However, we are still a long way. Some of the deficiencies we have in the system are structural imbalances and capacity deficits. We will require quite some time to sort out some of our problems. 

Sir, we also have the cultural trap. Good work ethics are not very pronounced in Zambia. Sometimes when people design a constitution, they go all out with rights of people or free education from primary to tertiary level without regard to the issue of resources. We are always overemphasizing rights in this place. Zambia is therefore a country where there is some cultural imbalance. Zambians seem to only have rights and no responsibilities or obligations. As leaders of the country, we need to strike a balance somewhere so that people know that for every right, they have must have corresponding obligations and responsibilities. We have come up with a culture which fosters and engenders irresponsibility and lack of sense of civic duty.  

Mr Chairperson, I wish to profusely thank the hon. Members for their views. Their views are very much valued. When my officers come here, they do a lot of listening. It is good that they come here in sufficient numbers so that they get exposed to the feelings of the representatives of our people. 

Mr Chairperson, I thank the Members for the support. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 21/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates. 

Vote 37/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 37/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 37/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 37/06 – (Ministry of Finance – Centralised Computer Services Department – K19,802,310). 

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 3011, Activity …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.  

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES
 in the Chair]

Ms Imenda: Mr Chairperson, before the break, I was asking for clarification on Programme 3011, Activity 093 – Development of Ministerial Information Database – Nil. I thought I heard the hon. Minister talk about strengthening this sector in his policy statement. Why is there an allocation of K1 million for this year, but nothing for next year?

Mr Mukata: Mr Chairperson, this Activity has been realigned to Programmes 3213 – Systems Support and Programme 3217 – Database Management.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 37/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 37/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 37/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 37/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 37/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 37/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 37/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 37/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 37/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

_________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)
__________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Transport, Supply and Communication, Chief Whip , and Acting Leader of Government Business (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question agreed to.

__________

The House adjourned at 1840 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 4th December, 2014.