Debates- Thursday, 19th November, 2015

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Thursday 19th November, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






176. Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe) asked the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning:

(a)    what the weather forecast for the 2015-2016 Rainy Season was like;

(b)    what varieties of maize should be planted by farmers in view of the weather forecast; and

(c)    whether the Zambia Meteorological Department had appropriate equipment to provide reliable weather forecasts.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Bwalya): Mr Speaker, Zambia is likely to receive normal to below normal rainfall during the 2015/2016 Rainy Season. This seasonal forecast is attributed to the El Niño signal, which continues to strengthen and is projected to last up to April, 2016. For Zambia, especially the southern half, this scenario will lead to poor rainfall performance. However, the northern parts of the country will be less affected and, therefore, expected to receive normal rainfall.

Sir, for the southern half of Zambia, we recommend the planting of early maturing maize varieties while, for the northern parts, farmers may still use the normal maturing seeds. Farmers are further advised to access the weekly and daily weather forecasts from the Zambia Meteorological Department (ZMD) for daily-to-day farm and crop management practices.

Sir, the Government has, in recent years, continued to recapitalise the ZMD and the department has acquired some modern equipment for weather observation, communication and forecasting, and data analysis. With that equipment, the department is able to provide reliable short-term early warning for a five-day to seven-day period. However, one major challenge the department faces is that of a limited network of weather monitoring stations, as not all districts have weather stations. Mpongwe is one of the districts that do not have such stations. The process of expanding the station network is ongoing and it is hoped that we will cover other districts in the immediate future.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has indicated that we will receive normal to below-normal rainfall and that the rainy season is likely to end around April, 2016. He has also advised people to plant early maturing maize varieties. However, if people plant early maturing maize varieties, but the rains continue falling beyond April, 2016, does he not think that crops will go to waste?

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I think that you will have to wait for the time being.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, I indicated that the El Niño signal is projected to last up to April, 2016, and that the rainy season is expected to last until then. I also mentioned that, in terms of the day-to-day farm and crop management, the farmers should rely on the weekly and daily forecasts from the ZMD. That way, they will understand the prevailing weather conditions and plant the correct seed. It is also important for farmers to consult agricultural extension officers, who should be able to give technical advice and updated information, especially on the type of seed to plant. In some areas, the rainy season is expected to end earlier than April, 2016.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, my point of order relates to a Constitutional matter.

Sir, Articles 20 to 22 of the Constitution guarantee all Zambians freedom of expression, movement and assembly in any part of the country. However, our party offices in Kitwe were attacked by known Patriotic Front (PF) cadres yesterday. While that was happening, the police moved in and, instead of protecting the people who were being attacked, started arresting the victims. Those who were stoned and wounded were accused of being the aggressors.

Mr Speaker, a team led by our party president, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, travelled to the Copperbelt Province to visit our party structures in Luanshya. Unfortunately, they found that the police had put up a barricade to stop them from entering the town. The police did not want our party president to visit Luanshya.

Mr Speaker, I once asked Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning why the Government was stopping political activism on the Copperbelt and laid on the Table of the House a letter in which the Copperbelt Police Commissioner stated that there would be no political activity in the province for one month and that political party leaders would not be allowed to move around. Is this Government, particularly the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, in order to continue instructing the police to attack members of the Opposition and harass them for no apparent reason? We want to know whether we are in a police State, one-party State or undeclared state of emergency, as no curfew was declared.

Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that I will give an opportunity to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to issue a statement on the matter early next week.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the Northern Province will receive adequate rainfall while the opposite will be true about the Southern Province. What about the Central, Western and Eastern provinces?

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, indeed, the southern half of the country is projected to receive low rainfall while the northern half is expected to receive normal rainfall. The Central, Eastern and Western provinces are also projected to receive between normal and below-normal rainfall, as I stated in my answer to part (a) of the question, and the reason is that the actual position …


Mr Speaker: Order, both on the left and right!

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, this is just a forecast and it shows that the country will receive normal to below-normal rainfall.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I ask this just out of interest. Does the Zambia Meteorological Department (ZMD) compare its weather data with that of other meteorological bodies in the region so as to come up with uniform forecasts? I have noticed that, sometimes, the ZMD forecasts are at variance with those of other bodies in the region.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, we are a member of regional groupings and, as such, we collaborate with various organisations within the Southern African Development Community (SADC) and Common Market for East and Southern Africa (COMESA). So, from that perspective, yes, we do collaborate in a number of things and weather forecasting is one of them. As to whether the accuracy of forecasts is collaborated, that is something that I can neither deny nor confirm.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, what exactly is meant by ‘normal to below-normal rainfall’ in absolute terms? Is it according to the number of months during which it rains or it is the quantity of rainfall that we receive? Further, how much rainfall is normal for this country?

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, that question is quite technical. So, suffice it for me to state that, in our country, a normal rainy season is known to start in November and subside around March. As regards the quantity of rainfall considered normal for our country, I am not able to tell the House. However, I think that, if it rains from November to March with an average of two to three days of heavy rainfall per week, that will be enough rainfall.

Mr Mbewe: It is 800 mm to 1,200 mm.

Mr Bwalya: As I said earlier, in terms of the quantity of rainfall, I am not competent to give accurate information. So, I will suggest that the hon. Member directs that question at the hon. Minister of Agriculture so that he gets an accurate answer.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, the Zambia Meteorological Department (ZMD), in most cases, gives us inaccurate information.

Mr Ng’onga: Question!

Mr Mbewe: Yes, it is true.

Mr Speaker, a few years ago, the department said that we would receive a lot of rain, but what actually happened was different. So, even in this case, it will be a gamble to believe its forecast …

Mr Masumba: Yes, it is an act of God.

Mr Mbewe: God, alone, is the one who knows how much rain He will give us, Mr Speaker.


Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, if Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning is aware that there are some areas in the country, such as the Southern Province, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mbewe: … that receive low rainfall, apart from providing them with early maturing crop varieties, does she have plans to help such places with irrigation equipment so that they can practice irrigation farming?

Mr Lubinda: But there is no water.

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, we have traditionally depended on rain-fed agriculture. However, I know that the Ministry of Agriculture has been in the forefront promoting irrigation systems …


Mr Speaker: Order, on the left!

Whatever is happening there is disturbing us.

Mr Bwalya: … and our co-operating partners have been helping us. So, I think the issue is being followed up by the Ministry of Agriculture. We are considering the option of tapping into the irrigation potential of our many water bodies by providing our people with irrigation equipment. When that programme has taken shape, I am sure that the hon. Minister of Agriculture will be able to announce to the nation the areas that will benefit.

I thank you, Sir.


177. Mr Namulambe asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a)    whether the Government was aware of plans by some mining companies to lay off workers;

(b)    if so, what measures the Government was taking to avert the impending job losses; and

(c)    whether the Government had any plans to nationalise the mines whose owners intended to lay off workers.

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Ms Kansembe): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of plans by some mining companies to lay off workers. According to the fact-finding mission undertaken by the ministry on the Copperbelt, a number of mining companies indicated their intentions to lay off workers while official notifications to that effect have been received from Mopani Copper Mines (MCM), Konkola Copper Mines (KCM), Luanshya Copper Mine, Chibuluma Mines and Kalumbila Mine.

Mr Speaker, the Government has been actively engaging the mining houses and trade unions to avert the job losses. To begin with, my ministry met chief executive officers (CEOs) of the mining companies through the Chamber of Mines with a view to finding an amicable solution to the challenges facing the mining sector. Following that meeting, five hon. Ministers held another meeting with the mining companies and the trade unions concerned. The second meeting was also organised by the Chamber of Mines. Lastly and most recently, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, met with the CEOs of the various mines and trade unions. In all these engagements, the Government has been consistently called for jobs in the mining sector to be preserved through dialogue among management, trade unions and the relevant Government agencies. Currently, the Government is awaiting the outcome of the consultations between management and the trade unions.

Mr Speaker, the Government has no plans to nationalise the mines whose owners intend to lay off workers.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, today’s edition of the Zambia Daily Mail has reported that Mopani Copper Mines (MCM) has retrenched over 3,000 workers. It was also reported in other media that more than 4,000 mine workers will be laid off. In the face of these reports, how can the Government talk of waiting for communication from the mine houses and unions? Has it not got the information about people being laid off after it was notified? All the information the Government needs is in the public domain.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Shamenda): Mr Speaker, we have also read those media reports, but we need official communication. The law demands that the Ministry of Labour and Social Security be notified whenever there are any impending restructuring exercises, job cuts or redundancies. That enables us to know the number of people affected. The law also requires companies to negotiate with unions within the laid-down procedures and explore alternatives to job cuts. For example, they can consider whether their problems are to do with issues of productivity, and cut down on over-time and introducing job-sharing measures or transferring workers, especially skilled labour, to other departments where there might be no adequate technical expertise. The negotiations are quite technical. In our engagements with both parties, we have said that they should interrogate all these issues and that, where they feel that the Government can be of some assistance, they should approach the ministries of Finance, Mines and Minerals Development, and Energy and Water Development.

Sir, I have been informed that the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development, I and, probably,  the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development will meet some representatives from some mining houses tomorrow afternoon for discussions on how we can save jobs in the mines. So, I assure the House and the nation at large that the Government is in negotiations with the mines aimed at saving as many jobs as it can. We did it in 2012 when 12,000 jobs were at stake at the Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) and managed to save the majority of the jobs. With this background, I have no doubt that the job losses will not be as bad as they have been portrayed because a good number of jobs will be saved.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the Government will negotiate with the mines to save jobs, yet the workers have already been given letters of termination of contracts. Will the negotiations lead to those who have lost their jobs getting them back?

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, I said that we are waiting for a report. So, any talk of mine workers having been retrenched at this time will be speculation. Until we receive official communication to that effect, as far as we are concerned, nobody has been retrenched. If the mines are restructuring, there could be redundancies, which are quite different from dismissals. So, I am unable to provide a reasonable answer to the hon. Member because I have failed to understand what he is talking about.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, will the people who will lose their jobs be paid their full packages first?   

Mr Shamenda: Mr Speaker, I am not the accountant for the mine houses. So, it is difficult for me, sitting in this Chamber or my office, to know when people will be paid their packages. All I can say is that there are negotiations currently ongoing.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


178. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    how many road traffic accidents occurred from January to August, 2015, countrywide;

(b)    what the major causes of the accidents were;

(c)    how many accidents were caused by tyre bursts; and

(d)    what measures the Government was taking to ensure that imported tyres were of good quality.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Col. Chanda): Mr Speaker, 22,276 road traffic accidents occurred from January to August, 2015, countrywide.

Mr Speaker, the major causes of the accidents include the following:

(a)    misjudging of the clearing distance between vehicles;

(b)    over-speeding;

(c)    failure to keep to the near-side of the road;

(d)    cutting in generally caused by impatience;

(e)    driving under the influence of intoxicating substances, such as alcohol; and

(f)    poor handling of motor vehicles commonly associated with unlicensed drivers.

Mr Speaker, of the accidents that occurred during the specified period, 183 were caused by tyre bursts.

Sir, finally, the Government, through the Zambia Bureau of Standards (ZABS) examines the quality of all products imported into the country, including tyres.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, is the Government aware of the growing sale of second-hand tyres on which grooves have been deepened using sharp instruments? If it is, how does it intend to stop the sale of such tyres?

Col. Chanda: Mr Speaker, it is true that people tend to go for cheaper quality products to save money in difficult times. So, second-hand and re-threaded tyres fall into the category of cheap products. The Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), has instituted inquiries into whether the selling of re-threaded tyres should be continued or some punitive actions should be taken against people who import second-hand tyres so that we can lessen the possibility of such tyres ultimately causing accidents.
I thank you, Sir.


179. Mr Pande asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a)    when the road between Mutanda and Kasempa Boma in the North-Western Province would be rehabilitated;

(b)    what had caused the delay in rehabilitating the road;

(c)    which contractor had been contracted to work on the road; and

(d)    what the cost of the exercise was.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of the first 30 km of the road from Mutanda Junction to Lunsala commenced in July, 2015, and it is envisaged that the rehabilitation of the remaining 123.4 km section will commence in the first quarter of 2017.

Sir, the rehabilitation of the road was initially planned for inclusion in the unconstrained 2016 Road Sector Annual Work Plan (RSAWP). However, due to fiscal limitations, the Secretary to the Treasury and the Road Development Agency (RDA) Board directed that the constrained 2016 budgetary allocation be used solely on the completion of on-going projects, not the new ones.


Mr Speaker: Order, hon. Members!

There are far too many conversations.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the delay in completing the project has been caused by the non-availability of funds. However, the rehabilitation of the first 30 km, which were in a very bad condition, has commenced.

Mr Speaker, China Geo-Engineering Corporation is the contractor rehabilitating the first 30 km while the contractor to rehabilitate the remaining section will only be known once the works have been procured.

Mr Speaker, the cost of works on the first 30 km of the road is K55,386,247 while that of the works on the remaining 123.4 km to Kasempa Boma will be known once the works have been procured.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to rise on this very serious point of order.

Mr Speaker, yesterday, the hon. Member for Monze Central rose on a point of order. However, he stormed out of the Debating Chamber before you could make a ruling. That conduct flouted the provisions of the Standing Orders, which are very clear on how we, hon. Members, should conduct ourselves after posing questions or raising points of order.  

Mr Speaker, this afternoon, the hon. Member for Kalomo Central raised a point of order and, at least, allowed you to make a ruling before he also stormed out of the House.

Mr Speaker, we set precedents in this House. So, I ask for your guidance to the House.  Was the conduct of the two hon. Members in order? Further, were the rest of the United Party for National Development (UPND) hon. Members in order to just come into the House to register their presence and, then, storm out of the Chamber? Is that sort of conduct permissible?

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: Order!

The hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing has raised an important point of order regarding the conduct of hon. Members of this House in general. In order for me to render a measured ruling on the several issues that he has raised, I reserve my ruling.  

The hon. Member for Kasempa may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister’s answer is very disturbing because he said that works on the first 30 km started in July, 2015, and that the rest of the road will be worked on in 2017 because the Secretary to the Treasury and the Road Development Agency (RDA) directed the ministry to focus only on completing the works in progress, not starting new projects. I do not know what the hon. Minister meant by “works in progress.” Maybe, he should clarify that. Why is the rest of this road not defined as part of the works in progress? Can this behaviour of the Government not be considered to be part of the discrimination that the people of the North-Western Province keep saying they are subject to?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the directive from the Secretary to the Treasury and the RDA Board is also disturbing to us who are charged with the responsibility of managing the roads. We know the condition of that road and it was our intention, originally, to rehabilitate it.

Sir, as to the question of what constitutes on-going works, all I can say is that the current contract works is confined to the 30 km. It does not cover the rest of the 123.4 km.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Sayifwanda (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, I have a cough. So, my voice is not that good.

Sir, who gave the directive for works on the road to be stopped, knowing very well that, from Mutanda to Chavuma, the road is known as M8, which is one stretch? The stretch from Mutanda to Kasempa Turn-off has been like that for more than thirty years now.  

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, this directive was a result of discussions between my ministry and the Ministry of Finance, having looked at the funds that were made available for road works in 2016.

Sir, regarding the road being one stretch, normally, even if a road is one stretch, we are still at liberty to split it into lots for convenience of works. That is what was done in this instance.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, there are a number of roads in Kasempa, including the one in question, whose works have stalled due to a lack of funds. Does the ministry have any plans to prioritise some of the roads for completion with the resources that are available?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the works on the 30 km stretch on the Kasempa Road have not stalled. The contract is still running and works are on-going.

Sir, with regard to on-going projects, this Government is committed to completing them.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, to the best of my knowledge, the road, which was built between 1995 and 1998 by Belga Construction Company, had a life span. Why did we not come up with a programme for its continuous rehabilitation and maintenance at the end of its life span to avoid traffic accidents due to the potholes on it?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, indeed, the road was completed in 1997 by Belga Construction Company and its current condition necessitates its rehabilitation. That is why the RDA has commenced the rehabilitation works.

I thank you, Sir.




VOTE 76 – (Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development – K44,831,638).

(Consideration resumed)

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Chairperson, in continuing the debate I started yesterday, I would like to say that it is unfortunate that I could not move the Motion to increase the allocation to the Department of Child Development because I was technically knocked out. However, I know that we have a very good hon. Minister of Finance and that he will vary the allocations, even outside Parliament, so that the monies that were ring-fenced in the Ministry of Gender can be taken back to the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development, where the portfolio of child development has been taken.

Sir, I emphasise that child development is very important. The child has to be nurtured into a youth and a youth into an adult. So, we have to look after the children on the street and re-integrate them into society because most of them come from homes. It is high time we got them to lead us to the homes they came from so that we can ask the parents why they let their children out of the homes. Some parents send their children to beg on the streets.

Mr Chairperson, sometime back, there was a billboard in town with a message, “Do Not Give Alms to Beggars.” Sometimes, we are forced to give them alms because they request persistently. Unfortunately, most of them engage in very bad activities. For instance, when I was at a service station in Kabwe one evening, some children stole a tyre from my vehicle. By the time I had realised what had happened, they were gone and I could not follow them because they had stones.  


Mr Namulambe: So, it is important that we see how we can get hold of these children.

Mr Chairperson, seeing as time is flying, let me talk about youth development, which is very important.

Sir, the establishment of youth skills training centres by the Government is a very welcome move because the centres cater for both the educated and the uneducated.

Mr Chairperson, providing people with skills is equipping them with survival skills. I am very grateful to the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development that the project started at Kwilimuna Youth Skills Training Centre in Mpongwe has continued. I am certain that part of the K150 million provided for under Loans and Investments will see the completion of the centre. It is my hope that the centre will be completed by next year. I would like the hon. Minister to know that he has to provide qualified trainers and survival skills that are meaningful for particular areas. Sometimes, the skills that the youths are taught are not applicable in their areas. For instance, Mpongwe is a farming area and people should be trained on how to keep chickens, grow vegetables and similar activities. We should match the people’s needs with the skills taught in the skills training centres.

Mr Chairperson, the Katembula Youth Skills Training Centre in Lufwanyama has remained static for quite some time. It is important that the two youth skills training centres are looked at equitably. Since Kwilimuna Youth Skills Training Centre is almost at the edge of Mpongwe, I am confident that Hon. Katambo and his people will benefit from the skills taught at the centre. Therefore, the remainder of the K150 million should be used as start-up capital for people who are being taught survival skills. I have always given the example of a youth who had just studied up to Grade 4. He later went to Mukwela Youth Skills Training Centre and is an employer now. The survival skills that he learnt from the centre have helped him. So, we look forward to reducing youth unemployment through the impartation of survival skills in young people.

Mr Chairperson, I let me mention that I sometimes get worried when I see the hon. Minister vary funds meant for youth development towards football. For instance, we enjoyed the match between Zambia and Sudan because we won it. However, what happened thereafter? Nothing. So, we should stop diverting funds from youth development activities to football because people will not eat football. Providing survival skills and start-up capital is what will help people to have the ability to put nshima on their tables. Then, they can go to cheer for the national team. We have attached too much importance to football compared with youth development activities. If football cannot be self-financing, maybe, we should just stop funding it. The Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) receives a lot of money from contracts, but it still asks for money from the Government, which is always told not to interfere in the operations of football. Why should we spend public money on a body that does not want Government interference? If any body receives public funding, it should be ready to accept Government involvement in its operations. Otherwise, the hon. Minster should not use funds meant for youth development on football.

Mr Chairperson, football has been over-prioritised at the expense of other sports disciplines. Why have we not put money in identifying talent in other sports disciplines? Does the Cabinet Committee on Sport meet? In the Ministry of General Education, even physical education in schools has been discontinued. We used to hold interschool sports competitions, but not anymore. What is happening? It is about time we devoted efforts to developing all sports disciplines equally instead of concentrating on one. There is much more that we need to do concerning this aspect.

Sir, the billions of kwacha that are given to FAZ go to only a few individuals, yet hon. Members of Parliament are only given ten footballs for the many people in their constituencies. That is not right. The hon. Minister should be fair so that everyone benefits. I am sure that even the hon. Members of Parliament for Chadiza and Lundazi want the benefits of sports development in their constituencies. I am also certain that the hon. Member for Lundazi is interested in seeing youth development activities enhanced in his constituency. So, the hon. Minister must not divert funds. Instead, let us concentrate on developing our young people. The funds allocated to the ministry this year are not adequate. So, we urge the hon. Minister to use them prudently.

Sir, I have been a Permanent Secretary (PS), a controlling officer, before. So, I know that most of the Votes here are non-functional. I wonder why we still keep them. The money should be channelled to more useful programmes. Some Votes in the Yellow Book receive insignificant funding. Why not vary those funds to appropriate programmes like child development? The way we budget should change. There are many idle activities in the Budget, yet we keep increasing their allocations. Some of the unnecessary Votes must be discontinued. In short, we should start a zero Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Chairperson, it is important that the people of Ikeleng’i add their voice to the debate on this Vote. However, let me hasten to declare interest because I am Chairperson of the Committee on Youth and Sports.

Sir, the Ministry of Youth, Sport and Child Development is a very important ministry because a good planner plans for tomorrow today.

Sir, we talk about youth and child development, but have not drawn a distinction between the two. Where do we start the development of a child? I believe that children are persons of a specified age irrespective of where they are found. So, children are not only found in towns. We have caused a lot of distortion by segmenting the duties and functions to different ministries. If we care for child development, it is high time we made the ministry functional by improving the staffing levels and putting appropriate structures in place in all the districts. There is also supposed to be proper co-ordination among the ministries of Local Government and Housing; Community Development and Social Welfare; and Youth, Sport and Child Development.

Mr Chairperson, I was born in a rural area and my constituency is in a rural setup. So, I have seen that children in the rural areas are not cared for. Some of us who were born before Independence saw how the whites cared even for the children in the villages. There were welfare centres and activities that moulded the child from a tender age. Today, all we have are mere theories and rhetoric. We hold too many workshops that do not actually meet the real needs of the child.

Sir, we have not looked at the needs of children in the villages. Has there been co-ordination among the ministries of General Education; Local Government and Housing; Community Development and Social Welfare; and Youth, Sport and Child Development? Are we treating the children in towns the same way as the children in the villages?

Sir, we need to train the youths to equip them for their destiny in Zambia. However, we can only do that if we enhance the operations of the ministry. Those who have lived beyond sixty-five will be cursed by God if they do not care for the youths, and that is not a joke. This is the time we are supposed to care for our grandchildren so that they can remember us.

Mr Namulambe: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, it is important for us to care for our children from the time they are infants to the time they become independent. We are lucky that the hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development is youthful just like Hon. Namulambe who debated before me and was once in charge of the ministry. So, we hope to see changes in the ministry now than if it was run, for example, by Hon. Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha. Let us not follow the practices of our colonial masters, but emulate the practices in developed countries so that we can prepare our youths for the future. We will not be youthful forever because we grow older every day.


Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister should visit other countries to study how the youths there are being cared for. In the structure of the Zambian Cabinet, the ministries of Sport, Youth and Child Development, and Community Development and Social Welfare are at the bottom of the priority ladder, yet they are very important because they deal with people who need to be cared for by the Government because the country’s future depends on them. Therefore, the Government needs to restructure the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development, and the hon. Minister of Finance should allocate more money to it. Since our already high unemployment levels are being aggravated by the retrenchments in the mines, we will have a disaster if the Government does not establish skills centres in every constituency so that young people can become self-reliant. The hon. Minister of Finance should take keen interest in this ministry so that he can be remembered for contributing to the development of the country. The hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development, on the other hand, should send youth development officers to all the constituencies for them to develop sports. If this Government cares for our young people, let us see what it can do for them.

Sir, teenage pregnancies have increased in this country because we do not care for our youths and do not bother to know what the cause is. We can visit different countries, but we need to make an effort to find out the actual reasons here, at home. Girls between the ages of twelve and nineteen are frequently abused, firstly, because they are not cared for by their parents, secondly, because of the high poverty levels in the country and, thirdly, because the Government does not seem to care for them and would rather send an hon. Minister with a briefcase full of cheques to distribute to different places during election campaigns. I am happy, though, that the current hon. Minister does not do that.

Sir, if there is a need to open a bank for youth empowerment, this is one area in which it could be useful. It could provide start-up capital for youths who graduate from skills training centres. In doing that, however, the Government should not only focus on the youths in peri-urban and urban areas, but also on the vulnerable youths in the rural areas.

Mr Chairperson, the money that the Government is carelessly spending can be put to good use. The future of this country depends on what the Government will do for the youths. The problem is that we either cut and paste what is being done elsewhere or just stick to what was left in place by Sir Roy Welensky. We must think of our own ways of improving our youths’ lives. Zambia’s first President, Dr Kaunda, introduced humanism because he was passionate about caring for his people and empowering them. So, we should not just use the youths for violent activities during elections. In fact, we are supposed to criminalise that. Any grouping that uses a young person for violent activities should be arrested because we need to protect the interests of the youths, not train them to attack their leaders in the universities during elections. The hon. Minister needs to undertake a study of what is happening on the ground so that his ministry can contribute meaningfully towards child development.

Mr Chairperson, there is also too much confusion at the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) because it is dominated by some individuals. Therefore, I appeal to the hon. Minister to take interest in the operations of the sports bodies of this country. Unveil what is happening in those institutions. Once, the Zambia National Football Team was made up of people from all over Zambia. Mr Obby Kapita and Mr Kajiya were from my constituency. Today, football has become a centre of corruption and abuse. FAZ does not even account for the gate takings and always refer to the International Federation of Association Football (FIFA) yet, when it encounters a problem, such as failing to charter an aeroplane to fly the national team to another country for a fixture, it runs to the Government for the same help that it does not want to account for in its activities. That should come to an end. If FAZ wants to be independent, it should find other sources of funding instead of using public funds. Why should it be treated differently from other sports institutions? I urge the hon. Minister to review that issue. He should also find out why our national team has been performing poorly in the last few years despite the country spending large sums of money on the sport. Today, we should have been competing in international matches, but we do not even have a local coach. So, we should have a deliberate policy to train our own coaches. Why do we want to always hire foreign coaches? In the past, the hon. Members of this Parliament were white. Today, we are black people. Therefore, even in the sporting arena, there is a need for change. The hon. Minister is a youth. Therefore, he should take keen interest in what is happening in this country.

 Mr Chairperson, those are my contributions to the debate on this important Vote, which I think should be supported by all hon. Members of Parliament.

 I thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Mwale): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to wind up the debate on this Motion.

Sir, let me begin by thanking the hon. Members who debated the Vote, namely, Mr Mbulakulima, Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha, Mr Namulambe and the Chairperson of the Committee on Youth and Sport, Mr Muchima. I am grateful for their comments and support to this Vote.  

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Mbulakulima raised the issue of racism in football. I want to assure him that Zambia is a member of the African Union Sports Council, which has been discussing racism in all sports, not just in football, although we understand that it is very prominent in football. We also know that there are some teams in Europe that promote racism. In Russia, for example, there is one team that vowed to never allow a black person to play for it, saying that its tradition could not allow it to do so. This issue has been circulating in the public domain and people have been discussing it because it is very important and very sensitive.

Sir, I am aware of a Zambian player who used to play in Europe at some club, but was being referred to as a monkey. So, he had no choice, but to leave that club. So, we know that racism is real in sports and it does not just affect the players from other countries, but also from ours, sometimes. Let me just assure the general public that we will fight racism in football and other sport disciplines. If Hon. Mbulakulima thinks that we have not been speaking out on this matter, it is because we speak as one voice at the African Union (AU). Zambia is also a member of the Commonwealth, the Sports and Peace Development Council, African Sports Council Region 5 and United Nations Educational, Scientific, and Cultural Organisation (UNESCO) Platform on Physical Education and Sport. Therefore, we have been able to speak out against racism using all these platforms. Apart from that, different programmes have been initiated to eliminate racism in sports. Therefore, something is being done.

Sir, Hon. Mbulakulima also talked about poor performance of the Zambia National Football Team and called upon the ministry to engage an expatriate for it. My reply to him is that, currently, it is difficult for the ministry to so because it is very expensive to hire an expatriate coach. There is a request currently by the Football Association of Zambia (FAZ) for us to raise US$25,000, which is equivalent to about K300,000, a month to pay an expatriate coach and his assistant coach. That is a lot of money and one can only wonder where it can come from, as the ministry has a budgetary constraint and a ceiling. So, the ministry does not expect that kind of money to come from the Treasury, which has many competing needs to meet. Therefore, we can only look up to the private sector to help us with that money. Even though we are satisfied with the Zambian coach who is currently in charge of the national team, we are not happy that he has not yet been given a contract. We will be very happy to give him a contract and pay him well, but that has to be initiated by FAZ. The ministry is not supposed to dictate on who should be hired as coach for the national team. Even when the current coach is given a contract, we will still talk to the private sector so that we raise money and put it aside, just in case we will need an expatriate coach sometime in the future.

Sir, Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha raised a point about this country investing in the training of coaches. I think it is important for us to do so because we will forever be a footballing nation, and we will continue watching football because we enjoy it. So, it will be better for us to invest in the training of local coaches for both the Zambian league clubs and the national team. That way, we will uplift the performance not only of the national team, but also that of the league because our league coaches will be up motivated. So, it is important for us to start investing in that, and there are various programmes that the Government is initiating in the country. In fact, just a month ago, in October, 2015, a regional training for coaches at which I was privileged to officiate was conducted in Lusaka. The workshop attracted participants from Region 5 of the African Union Council of Sports. That is the way to go in all sporting disciplines, not just football. So, I totally agree with Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha. His also agree with Hon. Mbulakulima’s request

Mr Chairperson, I also agree with Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha’s sentiments on the need for us to develop sports in schools. In that regard, I wish to inform him that we have formed an inter-ministerial committee that is comprised of my ministry, and the ministries of General Education and Higher Education. In fact, we should be holding a meeting very soon to discuss ways of revamping sports in schools. We really want to take the standards back to what they used to be in the days about which Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha talked during his contribution to the debate on the Vote. I thank him for those contributions.

Sir, Hon. Namulambe raised many issues during his debate, probably because he was once an hon. Minister in charge of Youth, Sport and Child Development. So, I suppose he is knowledgeable about what is happening at the ministry and we will benefit from the counsel that he gave us.

Mr Chairperson, it is true that the funding to the Child Development Department has fallen by 81 per cent. However, there are many programmes that are being implemented and have attracted a lot of donor funding. For example, there is a lot of international goodwill towards the fight against early marriages and we hope to tap into the resources that are being made available for that purpose. Therefore, some of the funding towards some programmes will come from well-wishers. So, not all is lost. We will vigorously lobby our co-operating partners to consider helping us with some resources as we tackle early and child marriages.

Sir, it is true that we should not allow children to be left on the streets, and I articulated this matter in my policy statement. Actually, we have said that we will remove all the children from the streets and place them in institutional care or reintegrate them into their families and communities. We will also economically empower the families of orphaned and vulnerable children through entrepreneurship training and provision of start-up capital so that they are better able to look after the children. As it has rightly been pointed out, it is because of poverty that families let their children to go on the streets. More importantly, we have said that we will enhance the enforcement of child protection laws in 2016 by, among other measures, advocating for the prosecution of parents who send their children to beg or work on the streets. That is very important because some of the children who go on the streets come from families that are able to look after them, but have chosen to neglect them. Hon. Namugala did very well in removing children from the street when she was hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Services, and I have said before that we want to use the same approach that she used. In any case, I am sure that she will be available to us for consultation on how to tackle some of these matters. We want to seriously deal with this issue. It is not good to let children go on the street because they are supposed to be in schools and be cared for by their families.

Mr Chairperson, I appreciate Hon. Namulambe’s good comments on our youth resource centres (YRC). Last week, I visited Chiyota Youth Resource Centre in Rufunsa Parliamentary Constituency and learnt something very important and pleasing. The good news to all of us is that when students from that institution go for attachment or industrial practice, they do not go back to the centre because of the many opportunities available to them. They return to the institutions only to write examinations. There is a huge demand for the skills that they are acquiring from the centre.

Sir, I am sure you know that when most young people in Zambia complete their Grade 12, they all want to do academic courses. If you go to the National Institute for Public Administration (NIPA) or Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce (EHCAAC), you will find that most students are enrolled in business management and business administration courses, which will not earn them a living in the event that they do not get employed while those who go to our youth skills training centres learn skills that they will use to earn a living.

Mr Chairperson, we get our brothers from Zimbabwe to put roofs, ceiling boards and tiles in our houses, but we want our young people to acquire these skills. One good thing about the skills training centres is that they enrol even people who have not been to school, and instruct them in Cibemba, Silozi, Cinyanjya and other local languages. So, it is very important for us to support these institutions. We have constructed the centres everywhere and come up with a standard way of operating them. However, we will not start constructing new centres until after we have completed the ones that are already under construction. In this regard, I thank the hon. Members and the Ministry of Finance for their support. I assure Hon. Muchima, who has urged us to build skills training centres in all constituencies, that we will get to the new districts soon. Were it not for the resource constraints, we would have done that already.

Mr Chairperson, I have taken note of Hon. Namulambe’s counsel for us not to divert funds meant for youth development to football. I also assure him that we do not only support football, but also many other sports activities. For example, we sent the Netball National Team to the World Cup after it qualified to the tournament. So, you can see that football is not the only sport that we are supporting. That said, we still would like to see the private sector come in strongly to fund sports in this country. We should not be queuing up at the Treasury to ask for sports financing at the same time that Hon. Dr Kasonde asks for funds to buy drugs for hospitals or the Ministry of General Education asks for funding for schools. Sports can attract funding from the private sector and we look forward to having a sports lottery in this country. We could also charge a sports levy on alcohol and restart the Kwachamania or Fwenyafwenya lotteries to raise money for all sports disciplines in this country.

Sir, one hon. Member talked about talent identification. If you refer to the policy statement, you will see that I talked about the launch of community sports programmes in which talent can be tapped.

Hon. Muchima, I thank you for everything you have said. I will not repeat what you said, except to say that you gave wise counsel. Being the Chairperson of the Committee on Youth and Sport, you understand very well what the ministry is doing and what it is going through.

Sir, again, I thank all hon. Members for paying attention and supporting this Vote even in their silence.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote76/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 76/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 76/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 76/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 78/01 – (Zambia Security Intelligence Services – Office of the President – Headquarters – K554,835,789).

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Chairperson, let me express my deepest gratitude for this honour and privilege to address this august House on the 2016 Estimates of Expenditure for the Zambia Security Intelligence Service (ZSIS).

Sir, the mandate of the ZSIS is strategic to the preservation of Zambia’s peace, security and stability. It is, therefore, incumbent upon this House to give this institution the necessary support it needs to deliver on its mandate in line with the aspirations of the people of the Republic of Zambia, to which this institution owes its allegiance. It is only through our support that the institution will carry out its mandate effectively

Mr Chairperson, as enshrined in the Republican Constitution, it is the responsibility of the ZSIS to protect the people and the Republic of Zambia against threats to the interest of the country. This responsibility requires a timely and considerable flow of resources to facilitate the smooth and efficient running of this key institution. As a Government, we have a duty to avail the institution with enough resources to match the new dimension of its operational challenges, limited though our resource envelope might be.

Sir, allow me to remind this august House that the peace our nation continues to enjoy is a result of the collective efforts of our defence and security services of which the ZSIS is an integral part. The institution has, over the years, proved to be the country’s reliable first line of defence mainly due to the support that it has received from this august House. It is against this background that I commend these estimates to the House. I also appeal to hon. Members to exhibit a spirit of patriotism and responsibility, and a sense of ownership of this institution in debating these estimates.

Mr Chairperson, as we consider this year’s estimates of expenditure for the ZSIS, we should be wary of the ever-growing threat of terrorism, corruption, and human and drug trafficking that our country, the region and the rest of the world are faced with. It should be stressed that no country can manage threats of this nature in isolation. It is, therefore, imperative to explore collaborative avenues with the rest of the world to combat these threats.

Sir, the Government reaffirms its commitment to maintaining an efficient and professional intelligence service that will meet the people’s expectations. To this end, it undertakes to continue enhancing the operations of this noble institution through the provision of sufficient resources to facilitate efficient and effective operations. It is for this reason that I appeal for the continued and reinvigorated support of this House to the ZSIS.

Mr Chairperson, I now draw the attention of this august House to the 2016 Estimates of Expenditure for the ZSIS, which stand at K554,835,789. Compared with this year’s authorised expenditure of K501,301,315, this represents an increase of 11 per cent. The change has been necessitated by an increase in operational costs.

Mr Chairperson, I reiterate my appeal to this august House to favourably consider the proposed budget before it.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank Her Honour the Vice-President for the well-articulated policy statement, which she has delivered in a motherly manner.

Sir, the intelligence service is good for this country. It is absolutely necessary, therefore, that this House supports this Vote, as Her Honour the Vice-President has said.

Sir, intelligence services cut across political, religious and racial boundaries. Therefore, this Vote is absolutely non-contentious. I think that it is important for all of us here to fight for an increase in the allocation to the intelligence wing. Her Honour the Vice-President has just informed us that the increase on this year’s allocation to this Vote is 11 per cent. I have concerns about such a meagre increase and I will say why. In my debate, I will dwell on the terrorism referred to by Her Honour the Vice-President.

Sir, apparently, terrorism is getting closer and closer to Zambia. Previously, we just heard about it in far-flung areas, such as Asia. Then, it moved to America and Europe and, strangely enough, it has now come to Africa. I never thought that Africa would ever be a victim of terrorist attacks, but it has happened. It started in West Africa and we are now seeing it in East Africa. That is a very clear indication that sooner rather than later, we could face terrorism in Zambia. So, as a country, are we really ready for such an eventuality? I am afraid the answer is no. Our intelligence wing might be ready, but I do not think the citizenry is because we are too used to peace.

Sir, terrorism appears to be evolving. Due to advances in technology, you cannot tell whether the person you are seated next to is a terrorist or not. As things stand, we all rely squarely on the intelligence system of this country to protect and warn us about the dangers we face.  We, Zambians, are so friendly that we forget that, sometimes, the people we talk to may be criminals. It is for this reason that I feel the Zambia Security Intelligence Service (ZSIS), which is actually the only unit providing intelligence services, should be given more funds so that it operates more effectively in safeguarding our national security.

Sir, I think that our approach to terrorist attacks should be pre-emptive rather than reactive. I shudder to think what would happen if we had a terrorist attack in this country. I do not mean to scare Zambians, but that is a possibility. What would happen if we woke up one morning and found that the Kariba Dam has been destroyed? We are complaining currently when we have a little power from there, but what would be our situation if the dam was completely brought down by a terrorist? What would happen if one Sunday, when we are all busy with our activities in the shopping malls, a terrorist detonated a bomb in one of the malls? How long would it take us to just clear the debris and find the dead bodies?

Mr Chairperson, the importance of pre-emptive intelligence action is what has made me want to debate a little bit on this issue. I have noticed that we normally do not debate this subject in this House, but just pass this Vote quietly. However, I think time has come for Zambians to be made aware that these things can happen even in our country. So, we should not shy away from discussing this topic and just bury our heads in our shells like snails. We should face the risk squarely, and encourage and assure our intelligence officers that we are behind them so that they do more.

Sir, I would like to see more money pumped into the intelligence system of this country because our intelligence officers need more training. We also need to equip them with state-of-the-art technology. Additionally, as Her Honour the Vice-President has stated, fighting terrorism cannot be done in isolation. There is a need to work with other countries. Therefore, are we on a par with our friends in other countries in this fight? Can we communicate effectively using the latest technology that our counterparts use? We need better technology for communication, detecting bombs and all sorts of activities. I think we should reach a level where intelligence officers can easily detect a person moving with a concealed bomb at Manda Hill Shopping Mall, for example. Otherwise, we will be shocked one day.

Mr Chairperson, I think that our intelligence officers need to be better motivated. So, let us look after them better. I also urge that we increase the number of personnel in the intelligence system. Let us have so many of them that they will be everywhere one goes. With the high unemployment levels in the country, we can recruit intelligent young men and women into the intelligence service.


Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, previously, we had many intelligence officers, but they were hitting in the wrong areas by targeting individuals. Now, we want them to focus on terrorism and protecting our country.

Mr Ng’onga: Including this House.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, the intelligence system, working together with other institutions like the police, should become a little more present in the country. Our schools are completely unprepared for terrorist attacks. So, I think that they should educate our children not only in Government schools, but also in private ones because there are Zambians in these schools. Our churches are also completely unprepared for terrorist attacks. Just like it was in Kenya, our shopping malls are equally unprepared despite being prime targets of terrorists. Terrorists go for what they call soft targets and Zambia, as a whole, is a very soft target. So, I urge that the presence of intelligence officers be not only through extra staff, but also by giving people in these areas more information on security threats.
Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, I would like to warn that if we are not careful and allow a terrorist attack in the country, there will be so much capital flight from the country that it will take a very long time to bring back the investment. Your Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning, let us get money from the ministries of Gender, and Chiefs and Traditional Affairs, and use it appropriately …

Mr Ng’onga: From chiefs?

Mr Mtolo: Yes, the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs.

We are just wasting money on streamlining gender, chiefs …

Mr Evans: Question!

Mr Mtolo: Let us use money appropriately.

Mr Mwamba: Question!

Mr Mtolo: Sir, with those very few remarks, I support this Vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Chairperson, I thank Her Honour Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning for her wonderful policy statement. As I support this Vote, I adopt the debate of Hon. Mtolo, the Whip for Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), as my own.

Mr Mtolo: Hear, hear!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: That includes his sentiments on the ministries of Gender, and Chiefs and Traditional Affairs.


Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Sir, the Zambia Security Intelligence Service (ZSIS) is a very important institution, but we are giving it very little money. When we invest in the institution, we invest for the future of the country, the economy and whatever Zambia is doing because it needs to reach farther than what we see in the borders of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, currently, there are many threats even to the economy of Zambia that this organisation is able to deal with even before we reach a situation in which we start having load shedding or power outages. The ZSIS should have been able to warn this nation long before we came to this situation. That is the reason I am saying that we should give it more money to allow for the organisation to improve its technical ability to collect and process the information that is required for this nation. Unfortunately, the money that has been allocated will not be enough for that kind of work.

Sir, it is also necessary that the recruitment and training of ZSIS officers are done very professionally. This is a field into which everybody in the world is now investing heavily, especially with the proliferation of the information and communications technology (ICT) that people are now using.

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended at 1615 hours until 1630 hours.


Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was saying that many countries have invested heavily in their intelligence systems.

Sir, in countries like the United States of America (USA), United Kingdom (UK) and France, the intelligence services are totally relied upon for the protection of the nations. A country cannot afford to give its intelligence service little money and expect it to do its work, like we have done in this Budget. So, my advice to Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning is that we should review what we have given to this institution that undertakes such important work. I can give an example. In this Parliament, I was Hon. Dr Kaingu’s Commanding Officer while he was my Sergeant.


Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: From this wonderful organisation, …

Dr Kaingu: I was never a Sergeant.

Mr Mbewe: He was a Corporal.

Hon. Government Members: Where?

Lt. Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: … he has risen and is now a doctor.

Sir, America has many examples of people who have used this wonderful institution to prosper and increase their person.

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mulenga: Sergeant!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise a point of order.

Sir, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Keembe, who was my Squadron Leader, in order to fail to acknowledge that I was not a Sergeant, but a Lance Corporal, ...


Dr Kaingu: ... and that he has no authority, whatsoever, to promote me today?

Sir, when I left the Zambia Air Force (ZAF), I had diplomas in computers and electronic engineering. I also had A-Levels, but ZAF could not afford to pay me well. At the time I was leaving, I was about to be sent for my degree course in electronics engineering. So, is he in order to stand there and say that I was a Sergeant, not a Lance Corporal, when he is the one who signed my discharge certificate?


The Chairperson: He wanted to uplift you a bit and we can live with that.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha, you may continue.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Dr Kaingu is a wonderful man and a great example of what a nation can do. There are many others like him, some of them in this House, but I do not want to mention their names.

Sir, despite being landlocked, Zambia has sea routes that it uses and we need this important organisation to be able to chart how we should move our copper and other exports as well as imports.  We should not lay open because we are landlocked. You remember that when Ian Smith declared Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI) in Southern Rhodesia, we had many problems. For example, fuel had to be flown into Zambia from outside. Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning’s husband was the first hon. Minister of Finance. So, she knows that the Government had to grapple with many difficulties in keeping the country afloat, and how the institution we are debating helped. So, we need to support it more.

Mr Chairperson, many people were injured by our decision to declare Zambia a Christian nation.

Mr Mtolo: Hear, hear!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: We must maintain that declaration, and it is the ZSIS that will help us maintain the decrees that are issued in the country. Additionally, we share our borders with eight neighbouring countries, and we do not know which of them can become our enemy at any time. So, this institution needs to be alert twenty-four hours a day. In fact, it should be alert every second of every minute of every hour of every day. That is why I adopted my Whip’s debate that we need to recruit more officers for the institution.

Mr Mtolo: Hear, hear!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: I agree with him.

Mr Mtolo: Hear, hear!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: We need to recruit more officers so that we are never be in a position where we are unaware of what is happening on our borders around the country. For example, we had a situation in Kaputa and, together with other hon. Members, such as Mr Ng’onga and Mr Bwalya, I, as Chairperson of the Committee on National Security and Foreign Affairs, went to see the situation there. What we discovered was that the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) had put a container and its flag on Zambian land and claimed a huge chunk around the container as its territory. So, unless this organisation works to inform the Government on other people’s intentions towards our nation, we shall be losing land. We may even lose the Victoria Falls in the end.


Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Sir, we need to give this organisation more money for the young men and women to be more professional in what they do every day so that all of us can sleep peacefully.

With those words, I support the Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Thank you very much uncle Chair ...


Hon. Government Member: Uncle Chair?

Mr Shakafuswa: ... for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, from the outset, I would like to adopt the contributions of the Movement for Multi-party Development (MMD) Whip and Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha as my own.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, most of us in this House have myths about the Zambia Security Intelligence Services (ZSIS) and do not understand its importance to this country. Apparently, even the Executive does not fully understand it and, therefore, underplays its importance. I have heard stories and insinuations that when this organisation gives advice to the Government, sometimes, the Government creates a parallel kitchen intelligence unit that provides the kind of intelligence that those in power want to hear. That is the reason our nation does not move with the times. The ZSIS is a professional organisation that gives verified and qualified advice to the State and is there to defend the people of Zambia. It gives truthful information about the state of the country. Therefore, if we choose not to listen to it, we do so at our own peril. Sometimes, we feel that we are important and powerful because we are in the Executive, but this is where we get it all wrong.

Sir, the ZSIS needs to spread its tentacles everywhere, especially now. We have enjoyed peace in Zambia for many years owing to the peaceful nature of Zambians. However, there are people who do not cherish our peace and our existence as a nation, especially after we declared ourselves a Christian nation and agreed to tolerate other religions. Today, the threats to our country and the world as a whole cannot be taken for granted. There are places in the world where people who have not harmed anyone are killed just for being Christians and others are injured because of their religious beliefs. So, how do we keep Zambians safe?

Mr Chairperson, we need this organisation, especially in the face of terrorism, whereby some people believe that Christians are not supposed to exist on earth because we are supposed to be near God with them. So, this organisation is supposed to advise the security wings of the Government on how to counter threats to the nation.

Mr Chairperson, we are not very safe, to be honest with you. Some people are coming into Zambia from fragile areas and are forming communities in the country, and I have evidence of communities that I believe could have extreme views because they come from areas that promote religious extremism. However, for us in Zambia, we take that to be business as usual. Maybe, I would be revealing too much if I said that our intelligence system relies more on informants than trained agents, but I am saying this so that I do not belittle the threats that this country is facing. The intelligence service in this country is not in professional hands. We need to give this organisation more money so that it can have more trained personnel, who will be able to make qualified judgments. Many of us are very suspicious of the Zambian intelligence system because its client is the Government of the day and I do not want it to underplay that role. However, as it plays that role, it should understand that Zambia is a multi-party democracy by law and that, within our multi-party democratic system, there are elements that are undermining our democracy and march to prosperity. A country becomes ‘prosper’ when divergent views are allowed to be expressed. A home becomes ‘prosper’ if ...

Hon. Members: Prosperous!

Mr Shakafuswa: Ichisungu. Nimwebo basungu.


Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, even in our homes, we have opposition parties. We often do not understand that our wives are our opposition. Some of us, including the hon. Minister of Agriculture, are alive because we have tough women who give us advice, even if we sometimes find it very bitter to swallow. So, democracy is inherent in us. The bottom line is that even the Government has to be advised. I know that my colleagues have walked out of the House for a genuine cause, but I am still here because I wanted to debate this Head. The intelligence system should have informed the Government about whatever moves those hon. Members who have walked out of the House were planning to make. The Government should also have worked with the police to prevent the situation that provoked that reaction because thuggery should have no place in this country. Those who think that they can thrive on thuggery should know that they cannot do that in Zambia because this country has chosen to enjoy unity in diversity, and to hear diverse views. We cannot have a situation where only one person’s views are heard. Everyone’s views have to be heard because our views make us who we are. If we cannot moderate our power and authority, as a nation, we will not be a good country. As Africans, we are taught that a man is the head of the house. However, if our wives never moderated us in our homes, most of us would not be alive today. We would not be here to say that we are men. We are men because of the opposition from the women in our homes.

Sir, we should invest in the Research Department of the ZSIS so that it can carry out research in various fields, such as modern politics, and advice the Government on what kind of Zambia the people are crying for. The personnel of this organisation live with the people and get their views, especially today, when people voice out their views, unlike in the past. I remember that when I was at university, my friends and I used to be scared to talk to our neighbours because we thought that they were shushushus. That is how much we feared the ZSIS. I have been in the Government before and can testify that one great Director-General of the organisation gave me some advice that helped me to stay out of trouble. The personnel in this organisation need to be given resources to carry out their work properly.

Mr Chairperson, the power of the Executive is not unlimited, but subject to the Constitution. Some people in the Executive think they have power. However, that power does not belong to them, but to the people of Zambia. They have just been given the power to execute programmes on behalf of the people of Zambia. Those who feel that they are powerful will end up in the courts tomorrow to answer for their actions. Information about their actions will be given to the people who will be in the next Government and they will discover that they were never powerful at all. Those who are lining their pockets with Government funds or feeling that they are powerful and can do anything without consequences, should know that their authority is limited by the Constitution. We have rules that regulate those who hold power. Those who think that they are powerful today may find that they are nobodies tomorrow when they find themselves in courts like common criminals.

Sir, Zambians live in critical conditions today, and there is just no way we can think that they can continue to suffer while we enjoy just because we are leaders. The bottom line is that someone is watching the people in the Government. The ZSIS does not watch the Opposition or the downtrodden only, but also all of us. The actions of the leaders are documented and questioned by the organisation. In fact, it especially monitors the conduct of those in the Government. So, the leaders may think that they are powerful today because they have protection, but the truth is that the ZSIS has records, and it advises those in the Executive about wrongdoings.

Mr Chairperson, the people in the Executive should get the advice given to them by the ZSIS. They should not think that they are powerful because no one is powerful. We are all human beings. Some may have certain positions in the Government and feel powerful, but they should know that their power is limited. Hon. Dr Kaingu, especially, should know that power is limited to the Constitution. So, even though we have good laws today, …

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa: Iwe!

Sir, even though we have good laws today that can move this country forward, let us feel Zambian enough, especially at this time when Zambians are calling on the leadership to do so, to stand up and move this country forward.

Dr Kaingu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Shakafuswa left his microphone on.

Hon. Members: Mic.!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, today, I seem to be under severe attack.

Sir, I have been seated here listening attentively to this one-man army, ...


Dr Kaingu: … this courageous young man who has decided to disrespect people who think that they are very powerful and can control everybody and has remained in the House as a good hon. Member of Parliament. However, is he in order to bring me into his debate instead of going further in his debate and saying that, indeed, the tif-tifs are outside watching his party president and vice-president because they want to know what the two are doing on the Copperbelt where they were told not to go? Is this wonderful young man and hon. Member of Parliament, Sir, in order to continue bringing into his debate people who are not concerned about what is happening in the United Party for National Development (UPND)?


The Chairperson: It is “hon. Member of Parliament,” not “young man”. Anyway, hon. Member for Katuba, please, take that point of order into account as you debate.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Chairperson, let me conclude by saying that this is where we are failing our democratic system.

Sir, when we amended Article IV of the Constitution in this House, we agreed to have unity in diversity.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Therefore, we should not make certain areas inaccessible to the Opposition. The hon. Minister has just talked about Mr Hichilema and Mr G. B. M (Geoffrey Bwalya Mwamba) having been advised not to go to the Copperbelt and that the two ignored the advice. The fact is that they have the right to go to the Copperbelt and talk to the people. The hon. Minister also has the right to go there and refute whatever they were going to say.   


Mr Shakafuswa: Shut up!

The Chairperson: Order, my nephew!

The phrase ‘shut up’ is not acceptable. Can you withdraw it.

Mr Shakafuswa: Thank you, Sir, for your guidance.

Sir, the bottom line is that we should become men …

The Chairperson: Order, Hon. Shakafuswa!

Your time is up.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Chairperson, I have been encouraged by the enthusiasm with which hon. Members have contributed to the debate on the Estimates of Expenditure for the ZSIS, and the confidence they have shown in the institution.

Sir, Hon. Mtolo, the hon. Member for Chipata Central, dwelt a lot on the threats of terrorism, and I could not agree with him more. Terrorism is now comparable to climate change because when it strikes, you are never prepared. We recently witnessed the calamity in Paris, France, in which the people of the affected suburb were not prepared for that sort of attack. So, terrorists can strike anywhere and anytime, and Zambians have to be aware of this fact. Equally true is his suggestion that we should be sensitised more about terrorism. Our country is at peace, but many terrorist organisations may take advantage of this situation to infiltrate our society and organs of governance.

Sir, Hon. Mtolo and Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha emphasised the need for training of officers to improve the technical aspects of their work. Indeed, there is a lot of in-house training in the security intelligence services. In fact, in my policy statement, I indicated that the increase in the budget is mainly to facilitate training, which is ingrained in the estimates of expenditure.

Sir, Hon. Shakafuswa dwelt on the advice that officers of the ZSIS give to leaders. Indeed, this is an important function of the institution, and we appreciate it. I am sure that the leadership is, to a very high degree, dependent on the information that it is given by this institution.

Mr Chairperson, I, again, thank the three hon. Members who have contributed to this debate and assure them that the Government will do everything possible to support the ZSIS in order to enhance the security of the nation.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa left the Assembly Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Masumba: Where are you going?

Mr Shakafuswa: Benze banituma!


Vote 78/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 51 – (Ministry of Transport and Communication – K276,899,940).

The Minister of Transport and Communication (Mr Simbao): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me the opportunity to outline the 2016 policy direction for the Ministry of Transport and Communication to this august House.

Sir, the recently re-born Ministry of Transport and Communication is strategic to the development of our nation. Its mandate is to promote the development of the transport, communication and meteorological sectors, all of which are key drivers of socio-economic development.

Mr Chairperson, the priority programmes for the ministry are informed by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu’s pronouncements on transport and communication development in his Speech during the Official Opening of the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly. Further, the programmes are designed to conform to the Revised Sixth National Development Plan (R-SNDP).

Mr Chairperson, the ministry’s major achievements in the 2015 Financial Year include, but are not limited to, the following:

(a)    the operationalisation of the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) to enhance the regulation of the aviation sector. This will accelerate the processes aimed at securing the lifting of the European Union (EU) ban on Zambian-registered aircrafts;

(b)    the drafting of the Civil Aviation Bill to provide for the control, regulation and orderly development of the sector in Zambia. This Bill will be tabled during one of the sittings of the current Parliament;

(c)    the incorporation and registration of a national airline to be called Zambia Airways 2014 Limited. We have looked at the advantages of having a national airline and I assure the hon. Members of this august House that the establishment of a national airline will have tremendous benefits for our economy, which will include:

(i)    the retention of the foreign exchange that most of us pay to foreign-owned carriers when we travel abroad;

(ii)    the creation of direct and indirect jobs for our people;

(iii)    improved communication; and

(iv)    provision of support to the export of floral products and many others.

(d)    the procurement of dredgers with funds allocated to the ministry from the US$1 billion Eurobond. Dredging machines are important in the clearing of canals to ensure that passageways for boats are safe and navigable;

(e)    the procurement of one giant crawler and three forklifts to enhance efficiency in the handling of cargo at Mpulungu Port in the Northern Province;

(f)    the procurement of sixteen patrol boats to enhance water transport safety countrywide;

(g)    the procurement of shared services computer equipment for the implementation of the e-Government Programme for effective delivery of public services to business houses and the general citizenry; and

(h)    the rolling out of 204 communication towers and related services under Phase I to provide telephony and the use of information communication technologies (ICTs) and other electronic transactions to un-served areas across the country.

Mr Chairperson, let me now turn to the prime programmes for 2016.

Sir, for purposes of implementing its planned programmes for 2016, my ministry proposes to spend K276,899,940.

Sir, in 2016, the ministry will accelerate the operationalisation of the national airline in accordance with the Government’s belief that this resolve will contribute to employment creation and overall national development. In recognition of the importance of air transport, my ministry has continued to promote air travel by upgrading provincial and district aerodromes across the country, which will contribute to the promotion of tourism. In addition, my ministry will enhance the operations of the Zambia Air Services Training Institute (ZASTI) with support from the European Union. To this effect, some of the resources under the capitalisation of the national airline have been earmarked for the rehabilitation of ZASTI. The investments in ZASTI will ensure the supply of the technical staff required in the aviation sector.

Mr Chairperson, to ensure that the roads on which we drive and transport our goods are safe, my ministry will support the operations of the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) in line with the resolutions of the United Nations Decade of Action for Road Safety and the United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. This will be done through concerted stakeholder interventions, as exemplified in the signed memorandum of understating (MoU) on road safety. Our ambition is to ensure that the RTSA is present in all provinces and districts.

Sir, in the water transport sub-sector, my ministry will spearhead the modernisation of Mpulungu Port as a means of enhancing regional trade and traffic to and from the Great Lakes Region. This will be done with the support of the African Development Bank (AfDB). Another intervention will be the transformation of the water boards of Mpulungu and Bangweulu into commercial entities that will be able to sustain themselves by offering efficient means of water transport. Further, my ministry has commenced the review of the Inland Water and Shipping Act No. 466 of the Laws of Zambia in order to enhance oversight of the maritime and inland water ways sub-sector. This process is expected to be completed in 2016. The ministry has also procured sixteen marine patrol boats in addition to the two old ones for use in ensuring compliance to safety of navigation on the water bodies. Our desire is to make water transport safe and avoid the loss of lives on our waters. Additionally, my ministry will continue to collaborate with the Republic of Angola in the development of the Shang'ombo/Rivungu Canal, which will enhance regional integration and trade between the two countries.

Sir, as was indicated in this august House by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, the Government will continue its efforts to improve the freight capacities of the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) and Zambia Railways (ZR) in order to contribute to the efficient movement of bulky goods to and from sea ports and, in-turn, contribute significantly to the preservation of our road infrastructure. In order to ensure that TAZARA is profitable and partners with the private sector, my ministry, in collaboration with its Tanzanian counterpart, will facilitate the revision of the TAZARA Act. Additionally, greenfield railway connectivity is planned for Nseluka to Mpulungu, Chipata to the TAZARA Line, Chingola to Jimbe, Kafue to Lion’s Den, Solwezi to Sesheke, and a few others. Bearing in mind the investment required to develop the railway sub-sector, the Government will continue to engage the private sector, through public-private partnership (PPP) initiatives, to open up these critical areas in order for the Lobito, Nacala and Walvis Bay corridors to be fully used. Zambia is strategically located vis-a-vis the regional transport development corridors, and should take advantage of this situation to enhance national revenue collection through transit fees, among other things. Therefore, we shall promote, regulate, develop and safeguard the movement of cargo and passengers. At the same time, we will need to provide and maintain infrastructure and quality non-discriminatory internal services along the corridors.

Mr Chairperson, in order to guide to the development of the ICT sub-sector in the country, my ministry will finalise the review of the National ICT Policy of 2006. It will also continue the implementation of the Universal Access Project by installing 469 more communication towers in un-served and underserved areas countrywide to enhance connectivity and access to telephony and other ICT services. The ministry will also continue to promote and facilitate the use of ICT across all the sectors and ensure that everyone is protected from cyber threats.

Sir, in order to continue providing accurate weather information, my ministry will continue to invest in meteorological equipment, rehabilitation of metrological stations and development of human capital in the field. The ministry will also table the Meteorological Bill of 2014 before this august House which, once enacted, will provide for the governance of the Zambia Meteorological Department (ZMD) and strengthen the provision of meteorological and advisory services to support sustainable social development and benefit all sectors. I, therefore, look forward to the House’s support when the Bill is tabled before this august House.

Mr Chairperson, it is now my humble wish to commend the 2016 estimates of expenditure for my ministry for the favourable consideration of this august House.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the chance to contribute to the debate on this Vote. From the outset, allow me to commend the hon. Minister for the wonderful policy statement that he has presented to us. I am excited because it gives a vision of what Zambia can become many years from today if all that he talked about is put in place. However, I have just a few concerns.

Sir, firstly, I expected the hon. Minister to say something about the water transport that Zambia has had and the ships that we bought, which used to plough the seas from Dar-es-Salaam to the outside world, but now seem to have been forgotten. Therefore, when he winds up his debate, he should talk about them so that we know that we have assets out there from which we need to get value.

Mr Chairperson, secondly, I would have liked the hon. Minister to say something about Kasaba Bay, an area in which his ministry shares stakes with the Ministry of Works and Supply. It is also an area on which the Government has spent a lot of money to develop its tourism potential and open up the Northern Circuit.

Sir, let me talk about the re-establishment of the national airline. As a professional pilot, …

Mr Mbulakulima: Professional pilot.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: … and I have a coursemate on your right, Hon. Col. Gerry Chanda, with whom I flew aeroplanes, I believe that we need to be very cautious. For sure, we need the airline. However, we also need to carry out a thorough study of how we can establish an airline that will make Zambia proud like Zambia Airways did before some things went wrong. The airline must be very professional and non-politicised in order to make Lusaka the hub of tourism that we have always wanted it to be.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: To achieve that, the hon. Minister needs to consult extensively before we throw money into the drain by setting up an airline that will be making losses. It is also necessary to promote private participation in this project. In this regard, the hon. Minister should consult a number of people and organisations that are licensed inside and outside Zambia, such as Proflight Zambia, to find out how they are doing and how best we can enhance their operations.

Mr Chairperson, the development of airfields is too slow. Zambia is a very big country and it is very difficult to move people and goods on our good road infrastructure. Sometimes, we need to move people and goods across distances in a short time. Therefore, airports and airfields are important in ensuring that the remotest parts of Zambia reachable. I remember, as a young pilot, we operated in Shang’ombo, Lukena, Chingi and all our borders areas with Angola, where the people needed to see the Zambian flag hoisted. However, it is not easy to reach such areas by road. So, the Government needs to develop airfields in remote areas like Chocha in Kaputa. I do not even know whether Chocha is still accessible, but it was a wonderful communication point from which we used to monitor the activities of our neighbouring countries. So, the Government must pay attention to airport development and, in the process, create the much-needed employment for Zambians.
Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Sir, the Zambia Air Services Training Institution (ZASTI) has been abused and poorly managed. Were it properly managed, it would generate a lot of revenue for Zambia because it is centrally located and many people want to be trained as pilots. It would also promote the aviation industry in Zambia and we would not need to send people to South Africa to train as pilots. We have professional officers in the Zambia Air Force (ZAF) who can manage ZASTI because they are already running their training schools in many areas of the Defence Forces. Therefore, the hon. Minister of Defence can attach some officers to ZASTI so that it can be professionally run. The institution has not been managed well and its assets have been so degraded that the hon. Minister would have to spend a lot of money to upgrade them. That is part of the reason Zambia was downgraded so low that aeroplanes registered here cannot fly in the European airspace, and that has a negative impact on Zambia. Therefore, I urge the hon. Minister to urgently deal with that issue.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister must also deal with the problems in our civil aviation sub-sector to make the sub-sector an instrument of expansion and professionalism in Zambia. Unfortunately, it is floundering because of not having the support that it requires both in Zambia and, indeed, worldwide. Similarly, the officers at our airports should have been collecting a lot of foreign exchange, but they are not doing that, and I hope that the hon. Minister will talk about that when he winds up.

Sir, the hon. Minister also talked about information and communications technology (ICT), an area about which most of us are passionate, and I wish he could elaborate on that. We need ICTs in our lives to rise to greater heights and become like Rwanda and India, which have excelled in this field. I think that if the hon. Minister learnt from what those countries have done, we could improve in ICT. Currently, this area is very poor and is not even promoted in our education sector although, now, our schools are slowly introducing computers lessons after history was removed from the syllabus, which is also not very good.

Mr Chairperson, I am excited about the vision that the hon. Minister has shared because it is very clear. However, we require more money and many years to realise this vision.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Chairperson, I also want to make a few remarks on the statement by the hon. Minister.

Sir, let me begin my debate from where Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha left off and say that the hon. Minister needs to be thoughtful and analytical enough to persuade not only us, but also all Zambians that, indeed, the re-establishment of a national airline is a sensible move. Although he has articulated how the establishment of the airline will enable us to retain foreign exchange, he needs to analyse the issue on a net basis. He has also indicated to us that the airline will create jobs, but what will be the unit cost of those jobs that will be created relative to the investment? I know we will have direct flights, and that is good.

Sir, in Africa, there are five profitable airlines, of which the biggest is the Ethiopian Airlines. Last year, the airline made about US$120 million despite having a fleet of only eight wide-body aircrafts. In the Southern African Development Community (SADC), no airline makes that kind of money. In fact, the governments in the SADC region perpetually call on taxpayers to continue to finance the operations of their loss-making airlines and keep their planes flying in the sky.

Sir, when the hon. Minister of Finance presented the Budget, he indicated that 2016 will be a difficult year and that, because of that, his thrust would be towards fiscal consolidation, which simply meant that he would attempt to cut as much expenditure as would be practical. Looking at the 2016 Budget, it is obvious that we have a financing deficit. At the current rates of interest and those projected for 2015, our financing cost will not be less than 25 per cent, which will be huge. The returns, even for a vibrant airline like Ethiopian Airlines, are at 1.2 per cent. So, from the word go, the airline might be in a net deficit that will just increase the burden on the taxpayer. In addition, the assets that the Government will procure will, obviously, be exposed to foreign exchange fluctuations, which will, in turn, be reflected in the performance of the airline.

Sir, the hon. Minister is aware that one of our difficulties in this country is the cost of fuel, particularly jet fuel. That is why the pick-up volume from Lusaka is much lower even compared with those for Harare, which indicates that we already have a critical burden to contend with.

Mr Chairperson, from a total government perspective, if we are looking to generate foreign exchange, we should have generated jobs through the deployment of resources in agriculture, for example, by enhancing the Nansanga and Luena farming blocks, which would provide greater relief to the people of Zambia, particularly in 2016. Therefore, the establishment of the airline should be deferred until after we start getting our economic fundamentals in place and begin to reduce the burden on the taxpayer. The hon. Minister of Finance knows that although the parastatal companies have been transferred to the Industrial Development Corporation (IDC), 90 per cent of them are only generators of burdens on the taxpayer, and I wonder why we, from the word go, consciously decide to continue to place additional burdens on the taxpayer?

Sir, I agree with Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha that, being an analyst whose training is steeped in calculus, the hon. Minister should employ himself and disconnect himself from the disciples who will increase the burden on the people of Zambia.

 Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mutati: Mr Chairperson, airlines are glamorous and flamboyant status projects. However, this Government is in a situation in which glamour should have no place, particularly for next year. The ministry was recently recreated and has a new hon. Minister. So, we expect new thinking from there, which will serve the people of Zambia. I call on the hon. Minister to consider deferring the establishment of the airline. It does not matter how the financing will be structured because, at the end of the day, a cost is a cost. Airlines demand confidence because, by the time they start walking, ten years could have passed. It will be a long time before the company can be relied upon.

 Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I will continue from where Hon. Mutati has left off because his debate was a continuation of Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha’s.


Mr Mtolo: Sir, I agree with Hon. Mutati that the Government should seriously think of deferring the setting up of a national airline. What we should be discussing here is what to do with the money that was allocated to the re-establishment of the airline, and my suggestion is that it should be used to construct a rail line from Chipata to Lusaka because that will add value to this country. There is a lot of money that is being wasted on transporting maize, groundnuts, cotton, tobacco and all sorts of commodities that, we, the people in the Eastern Province, produce from Chipata to Lusaka by road. The hardworking people of the Eastern Province want a rail line to connect Chipata to Lusaka. Let me emphasise that we do not want Hon. Simbao to think of building the rail line into the bush because, then, it will not serve anyone. So, we do not want the rail line to be constructed from Petauke, through Mfuwe to Muchinga. The people of the Eastern Province are saying no to that idea.  The rail line should run parallel to the Great East Road so that the growth points can benefit. We want the people of Katete, Sinda, Nyimba, Luangwa, Rufunsa and Chongwe to benefit.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Simbao is an able Minister, and I have just learnt today that he is a product of calculus. So, he should not go the business-as-usual way. The difficulty that I have is that our talking does not change anything, yet we still pass line after line. We just talk about the different allocations without really realising that public resources are being expended without corresponding benefits accruing to our citizens. We do not want that to continue. So, the hon. Minister should re-channel the money to the most important areas.

Sir, this country has a lot of energy. So, let us channel that energy into the right course so that it becomes useful. The Government should take time to reflect on the figures that we will pass. The good thing about the Budget is that the hon. Minister is able to vary the allocations under his ministry, which we are not able to do here.
Sir, I would like Hon. Simbao to be the first to introduce performance-based contracts in his ministry so that people can be judged by their performance. That way, he will be able to check on his hon. Deputy Minister, a very lucky Member of Parliament from Kabwe. The hon. Deputy Minister should also check on those others below him.

With those few remarks, I support this Vote, subject to the Government re-channelling the funds allocated to the airline to the railways sub-sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simbao: Mr Chairperson, I thought this Vote would be the easiest to sell to the House.  So, I do not know how the others have found it difficult to buy into it.

Sir, let me start by assuring Hon. Mtolo that the Government plans to build a railway line from Chipata to Lusaka in the future.

Hon. MMD Members: Aah!

Mr Simbao: For now, we are looking for a short cut to another railway line because the terrain from Chipata to Lusaka is too difficult for us to embark on the construction of a greenfield railway line. On a normal flat terrain, it costs US$2 million to lay 1 km of rail. So, with the Manenekela rugged terrain between Chipata and Lusaka, building a rail line between the two cities will be abnormally more costly because it requires a lot of study and more money. However, I assure Hon. Mtolo that these issues have been discussed back and forth and, definitely, there will be a railway between Chipata and Lusaka in the future. For now, we are looking at the shortest way of connecting Chipata to the railway network, and the planned route is the most affordable. So, Hon. Mtolo should tell his kinsmen that they will, eventually, travel by train.


Mr Simbao: Mr Chairperson, on the establishment of a national airline, I respect the opinions of all those who have debated it. However, I think that they are forgetting one big fact, and that is why we may remain in need of money in Zambia for a long time. There are two main reasons nations establish airlines. The first is for the country to have direct connections to centres of business while the second is to service the country’s local market, which might be in terms of tourism. Last night, I was looking at Malaysia and was shocked to learn that it receives about 9 million tourists a year. That translates into a lot of money flowing into that country. In Zambia, we only receive about 800 tourists. Why can we not get even 5 million? The reason is that connectivity within Zambia is very difficult. When a tourist comes here, he will worry about how he will get to Mfuwe, Kalambo Falls and many other places if he lands in Livingstone. So, once we have a national airline with an interest in promoting tourism, we will see a bigger number of tourists coming into the country. That is the main reason some Southern African Development Community (SADC) countries have held on to their airlines even if they are not making profits, like Hon. Mutati has observed. So, we should not condemn the planned establishment of a national airline. I am mindful of our initial experience in running an airline. However, if we look back into why the first airline was liquidated, it might be a sobering experience, but that experience should not frighten us from starting another airline. Very extensive feasibility studies are being conducted to make sure that this airline is run on a commercial basis, unlike the last one. It is possible that we will look for a partner to run the airline with. So, no one should be frightened about it.

Mr Chairperson, the ship that Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha talked about was known as Mulungushi and was run by Zambia, Tanzania and Kenya and his sentiments are correct. However, we are still trying to find out exactly what happened to it. The investigations that have been carried out in the past have not yielded any meaningful information. So, no one knows where this ship went. We are trying to establish a similar service to the one that existed in the past. However, before we do that, we want to know what happened to the other ship. In the future, we are likely to come back here and give more information about this.
Sir, ZASTI has now been moved from the ministry responsible for education to the Ministry of Transport and Communication purely for the reasons that Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha talked about. It seems that the institute was under a strange ministry. So, a Parliamentary Committee thought it best to move it to a ministry where it was believed that the institute would receive more attention since it is concerned with transportation. It is true that in the Yellow Book, ZASTI has been allocated the same amount of money that it has received year in and year out. However, more money will be pumped into it by the European Union (EU) in 2016, which will give it more muscle. So, going forward, we expect to see a transformed ZASTI.

Mr Chairperson, as we all know, the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is a young authority was only established last year. So, it is relatively new, but it has received a lot of attention because we want to address the issues of safety, seeing as that is one of the reasons our aeroplanes have been banned from flying into Europe. We want to get back on board like any other country.

Sir, I am glad that Hon. Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha talked about the collection of money. Surely, we would like to collect as much money as possible. So, if the systems we have in place are not sufficient, he or anyone else with suggestions on how best we can collect more money should bring them forward.  

Mr Chairperson, as regards ICTs, I have already talked about how much is being done in that field. Fibre-optic cables are being laid left, right and centre so that all households, schools and offices can have all the data that they require. In that regard, we are really trying to get to where countries like Rwanda and India are. Our people should be assured that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is trying its best to get as closer to them as possible.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 51/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 51/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 89 – (Ministry of Agriculture – K 2,382,266,379).

The Ministry of Agriculture (Mr Lubinda): Sir, as I conclude, …


The Chairperson: How can you start your statement with the conclusion, hon. Minister?


The Chairperson: I am sure that was meant to just wake us up.

Mr Lubinda: Certainly, Mr Chairperson. I was hoping that I would attract the attention of my colleagues who have decided to listen to this debate from outside through the airwaves. I would have wanted them to listen to this policy statement inside the Debating Chamber.

Mr Chairperson, it is my honour and privilege to make this policy statement on the 2016 estimates of expenditure for the Ministry of Agriculture to the House.

Sir, agriculture provides one of the greatest opportunities for enhancing economic growth and reducing poverty for most people. In particular, crop production continues to support the livelihoods of a large number of households in the country, especially in the rural areas. In recent years, agriculture has also emerged as an important foreign exchange earner.

Mr Chairperson, the Government recognises the important role that the agricultural sector plays in the economic development of our country. My ministry also has a critical role to play in ensuring increased crop production for food security, providing raw materials for the manufacturing industry as well as producing cash crops for exports.

Accomplishments in the 2014/2015 Season

Sir, allow me to briefly highlight some agricultural programmes that the ministry has implemented in 2015 to support crop production, starting with the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). The Government has, this year, so far, spent K1.5 billion on the implementation of the 2015/2016 FISP, as part of our continued efforts to improve smallholder access to farming inputs and increase their productivity. The ministry has contracted the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) to manufacture, supply and distribute 106,409 metric tonnes of D-Compound fertiliser at a cost of K645.5 million. I am glad to report that, as at 1st November, 2015, the NCZ had distributed 81,164 metric tonnes of the D-Compound fertiliser across the country, representing an achievement of 76 per cent. In addition, 101,826 metric tonnes of top-dressing fertiliser has been procured for the 2015/2016 Agricultural Season at a cost of K547 million. The Government has also procured over 8,870 metric tonnes of various seeds that include white maize, sorghum, rice, groundnuts, orange maize, mixed beans, cotton and sunflower. This august House might wish to note that the number of seed types supplied under FISP has increased as part of the Government’s deliberate policy to promote crop diversification.

Sir, the other programme is the famous Electronic Voucher (e-Voucher) System. The Government remains committed to implementing the reforms under FISP. It is for this reason that the ministry is piloting the e-Voucher in thirteen districts, namely, Choma, Kalomo, Monze, Mazabuka, Chikankata, Pemba, Ndola, Mumbwa, Chongwe, Chibombo, Kapiri Mposhi, Chisamba and Kabwe. In this regard, the Government has since released K241 million to support 241,000 small-scale farmers in the pilot districts. To date, 141,419 e-Vouchers have been distributed to farmers in an exercise that is expected to be completed by the end of November, 2015. The e-Voucher, as this august House might know, makes a wide variety of inputs available to the farmers, thereby promoting agricultural diversification. The Government will evaluate the performance of the pilot project before scaling up the programme to other districts in the coming years. I am glad to inform this august House that the programme has received an overwhelming response from agro dealers and farmers alike, some of them in areas that are not covered by the pilot project, such as Chipata, where people have been asking why they have been put in the second phase of the programme.

Sir, 180 agro dealers are participating in the programme, resulting in the creation of 2,800 jobs.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to talk about crop production in the 2014/2015 Agricultural Season. The hectarage under crops increased by 5.51 per cent, from 2,324,677 ha in the 2013/2014 Season, to 2,452,848 ha in the 2014/2015 Season. The country harvested 2.62 million metric tonnes of maize compared to 3.4 million metric tonnes harvested in the previous season, representing a 21.9 per cent decrease in production. Despite this reduction in maize production, the country recorded a surplus for both human consumption and industrial use. The production of Irish potatoes and millet increased by 35.7 per cent and 4.8 per cent, respectively while the production of cassava increased by 3.6 per cent to 952,847 metric tonnes in 2015. Wheat production is focused to increase slightly to 330,000 metric tonnes in 2015 from 318,000 metric tonnes in 2014. The national wheat requirements are estimated at 390,000 metric tonnes, which shows that there is scope for growth. The production of soya beans increased by 5.7 per cent to 226,323 metric tonnes in 2015 from 214,179 metric tonnes in 2014. Despite this modest increase, the demand for soya beans and other oil seed crops has increased significantly due to their importance in the edible oil and livestock value chains. In order to meet Zambia’s estimated 120,000 metric tonnes annual requirements of edible oil, and production of 220,000 metric tonnes of stock feed, there is a need for increased production of these crops.

Mr Chairperson, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has, so far, spent K1.5 billion on the procurement of strategic food reserves. The bulk of the money has been spent on maize crop purchases at K75 per 50 kg bag of maize. Some of the money was used to pay transporters and loaders, and for fumigation. As at 31st October, 2015, which was the end of the purchasing season, the FRA had purchased 593,371 metric tonnes of maize. Additionally, the agency rehabilitated a silo in Ndola. The Government will continue to improve storage facilities in order to secure the strategic food reserves.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry recognises the significant role that extension services play in our effort to improve production and productivity. Realising the fragmentation in the provision of extension services by different players, the Government is in the process of finalising the National Agriculture Extension Services Strategy, which outlines steps and provisions to harmonise and improve the efficiency and effectiveness of the provision of extension services by various players, including some political parties. In order to improve the efficiency and effectiveness of extension service delivery, and provide accurate and up-to-date information, the ministry, in collaboration with the European Union (EU), procured and distributed over 200 laptops, 800 tablets, 1,170 measuring tapes, 1,170 overalls and 1,170 gumboots to block and camp extension officers countrywide. Further, to increase mobility and improve extension outreach, the Government, working in collaboration with its development partners, procured 120 motorcycles for camp extension officers and will procure more for the provinces once the allocated funds are released before the end of the year. This will meet the current shortfall of about 300 motorcycles.

Mr Chairperson, the Government attaches great importance to agricultural research. In 2015, my ministry continued its research activities by conducting multi-location trials of root and tuber crops, grains, tree crops, food legumes and oil seeds. Seventeen improved crop varieties of maize, rice and legumes have been developed as a result of these research efforts. In order to further strengthen the capacity of regional research stations to research on soils, seed, fertiliser and feed, the Government procured and distributed assorted pieces of equipment to agricultural research stations countrywide.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry continues to develop irrigation infrastructure in the country to assist small-scale farmers. The infrastructure that has been completed has brought 793 ha under irrigation, thereby benefiting 1,613 households, particularly in Chikankata and Sinazongwe.

Outlook for 2016

Sir, the overall 2016 strategic focus for agricultural development in the sub-sector for which my ministry is responsible will be increased production and productivity for crops and horticultural products, which are vegetables and fruit trees, with the aim of improving food security and nutrition for the people of Zambia. This season, the country is forecast to receive normal to below-normal rainfall due to the El Niño weather phenomenon. Like we heard earlier this afternoon, farmers are encouraged to plant early, especially in the southern part of our country. In this regard, the Government has facilitated the timely distribution of inputs. In addition, the Government will continue to promote and support crop diversification to encourage the production of drought-tolerant crops, legumes, oil crops and tubers. As already stated, both the conventional FISP and the e-Voucher programmes are aimed at assisting our farmers to diversify their production.

Sir, the Government is investing in increasing the area under irrigation and developing farming blocks, enhancing research and extension services, and promoting the use of improved seed varieties. In addition, emphasis will be placed on promoting agro-processing and value addition, and climate-resilient farming systems, and improving agricultural market performance to enable agro players to have access to domestic, regional and international markets.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry has finalised the review of the National Agriculture Policy, which will guide the development of the sector. The Government has prioritised programmes and interventions that reflect its commitment to enhancing agricultural development in the country.

Sir, in the 2016 Budget, K2,382,266,379 has been allocated to the Ministry of Agriculture. Evidently, there has been a general reduction in the allocations in the ministry. However, the reductions only apply to administrative activities. This, obviously, calls for all of us in the ministry to be more prudent in the utilisation of these limited resources. We need to effect austerity measures. In this regard, I assure the hon. Minister of Finance that my ministry will do its best to keep within the ceilings, especially in our administrative budget.

Sir, let me now reflect upon the priority programmes for 2016 under the Budget that has been allocated to the ministry.

Extension Services

Mr Chairperson, extension services will continue to be scaled up and strengthened to enable farmers to adopt better farming practices, which will improve production and productivity. To this effect, K50.2 million has been allocated in 2016.

Irrigation Development

Mr Chairperson, in the last agricultural season, the rainfall pattern was not favourable for crop production and led to reduced yields for most crops. Therefore, to mitigate crop failure due to low rainfall conditions, the Government will continue to invest in developing Zambia’s irrigation potential, which is estimated at 2,750,000 ha. Currently, the country has only 200,000 ha under irrigation. Related to the potential for irrigation, Zambia receives an average of 160,000,000,000 m3 of water every single year, of which only 60,000,000,000 m3 is retained by the water bodies in the country while 100,000,000,000 m3 is allowed to run off to the Indian Ocean. Therefore, my ministry and the Patriotic Front (PF) Government’s focus will be on exploiting this potential. In this regard, K55.4 million has been made available in the 2016 Budget for the rehabilitation and construction of irrigation infrastructure countrywide. In addition, under the Irrigation Development Support Programme, the construction of irrigation infrastructure in Lusitu, Momboshi and Musakashi is expected to commence in 2016 to bring, at least, 6,000 ha of land under irrigation. Currently, the ministry is about to conclude and sign contracts for the development of three irrigation schemes in the mentioned sites. Whereas water would be directly extracted from the Kafue River and Kariba Dam for the Musakashi and Lusitu sites, respectively, a 65,000,000 m3 dam will be constructed at Momboshi in Chisamba.

Farm Block Development Programme

Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Agriculture has continued to make available land for increased agricultural production through the Farm Block Development Programme. In this regard, the ministry, in collaboration with other ministries and relevant stakeholders, has reviewed the land allocation guidelines in order to expedite the development and streamlining of governance issues. Under this programme, the ministry intends to bring 1,000,000 ha under production.

e-Voucher Programme

Sir, the Government will increase support to the e-Voucher Programme in the 2016 Budget, which will increase the number of beneficiaries from the 241,000 small-scale farmers targeted in the 2015/2016 Season to 480,000 farmers in the 2016/2017 Season. Under this programme, beneficiaries will be able to access a wide variety of inputs for production of various crops, livestock and, especially, fish.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry is working with our development partners to revive the cashew nut industry in the Western Province. To that effect, the African Development Bank (AfDB) has already announced its approval of a US$45 million loan facility for the programme.

Mr Chairperson, my ministry also intends to strengthen the Stocks Monitoring Committee in providing guidance on food security, and the importation and export of food stuffs. The Government’s position still remains that of encouraging private sector participation in the agricultural value chain.

Sir, the Government is also committed to improving small-scale farmers’ access to inputs under the conventional FISP. To that effect, K755,220,645 million has been allocated to the programme for the 2016/2017 Season, which will, in that period, target 520,000 farmers. In total, the ministry is targeting to provide inputs to 1 million small-scale farmers under both the conventional FISP and the e-Voucher System.

Mr Chairperson, the development of technologies that are able to respond to the changing environment is key to the growth and sustainability of the agricultural sector. Therefore, in 2016, the Government has allocated K25.9 million to agricultural research and the development of seed systems, with a focus on variety development, soils research and plant protection. The ministry will also facilitate trade by providing sanitary and phytosanitary certificates.

Mr Chairperson, the Government is aware that appropriately skilled human capital is vital for the growth and development of the agricultural sector. Therefore, the ministry will continue its support to agricultural training institutes to ensure the provision of high quality training. To that effect, K10.7 million has been allocated in the 2016 Budget to support different agricultural disciplines at the various training institutions. Additionally, the Government of the Republic of Zambia, under the dynamic leadership of President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, and the Netherlands Government, are working on facilitating the rehabilitation and upgrading of infrastructure at the ten agricultural colleges across the country under the Orio Project.

Sir, it is the wish of my ministry, in collaboration with the private sector, the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU) and our co-operating partners, to celebrate Farmer’s Day in 2016. Whereas we have observed and paid attention to many national days on our calendar, the farmer has not been recognised at all.

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.


Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was about to conclude my statement.

Sir, this country and the rest of the world celebrates many things, such as women, youths, labour, teachers, secretaries, doctors and nurses. However, we always forget to celebrate the farmer, yet none of them could possibly survive without the farmers. So, in 2016, the ministry, working with the private sector, the ZNFU, our co-operating partners and, I hope, all Zambians, will celebrate the farmer on 8th August.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Chairperson, having highlighted the key programmes of my ministry in 2016, I would like to take this opportunity to appeal to all my hon. Colleagues in this august House to unreservedly support the 2016 budget for the Ministry of Agriculture.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to debate this Head.

Sir, the hon. Minister of Agriculture should have knelt down when asking us to support his ministry’s Vote.


Mr Namulambe: That notwithstanding, I support the Vote. However, I have a few issues that I would like to point out.

Sir, this afternoon, I asked a question on the weather forecast for the 2015/2016 Farming Season. Closely connected to that is the distribution of inputs and, on this, I wish to inform the hon. Minister that, so far, fertiliser has been delivered to Mpongwe, although we are still waiting for 4,000 more packs. Unfortunately, seed has not yet been delivered. Therefore, the ministry should consult the Zambia Meteorological Department (ZMD) on the weather pattern for Mpongwe and how much rain is expected to fall there. That will enable the ministry to deliver the right variety of seed so that the farmers’ efforts are not wasted.

Sir, the hon. Minister has elaborated quite a good number of things in his statement. However, I did not hear him talk about how he will address the high cost of production in the agricultural sector. So far, the Government is doing well in the provision of fertiliser under the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP). However, the fertiliser is too expensive for some of us who do not depend on FISP. Why can the Government not come up with a deliberate policy to subsidise agricultural production? The agricultural sector is very important and the Government should attach great importance to it. I would not mind if the Government suspended some programmes and redirected the money to subsidising agricultural production because we all need to eat in order to do anything. When I finish my debate, I will go down to find something to eat because I did not drink tea during the break. Also, when my job of talking is done, I will go and eat nshima. When I have not eaten nshima, I feel like I have not eaten anything.

Hon. Members: With offal meat.

Mr Namulambe: Yes, with offal meat.

Mr Chairperson, the ministry needs to consider zoning the country. I was in Shang’ombo and observed that, yes, fertiliser is provided, but the rains stop falling before the maize is even knee-high, which is just after the application of top-dressing fertiliser. So, the fertiliser sent there is wasted. Therefore, it is important for us to know what crops can grow best in each province, and the ministry should support the crops that can grow best in particular provinces, depending on the weather patterns.

Sir, the hon. Minister talked about resuscitating the cashew nut industry in the Western Province, although my madam here, sorry, the hon. Member for Mulobezi, was talking about fish. We have not paid much attention to this crop. As a country, we exported some cashew nut seedlings to Mozambique and, now, Mozambique is doing far much better than us in growing cashew nuts. Why do we import peanut butter as if this country cannot grow groundnuts and produce peanut butter for export to other countries? I repeat what I have said before: I will not buy anything made outside Zambia if it can be made in Zambia. When I go to Spar, Shoprite or any other shop, I first look at where the product was made before buying it. I have even stopped buying cabbages because I do not know where its seeds come from. I would rather eat chitashi, bondwe and kalembula because I know where those things come from. Very soon, I will start boycotting Coca-Cola and other fizzy drinks and start drinking munkoyo because maize is produced in Zambia.

Sir, let me repeat my suggestion that Zambia should be zoned. For instance, the ministry needs to establish where in the country we can grow soya beans, cassava and sweet potatoes better. Then, we can add value to these crops. We import mango juice, yet we have a lot of mangoes in Zambia. Why do we not promote the production of such things?

Sir, we must also look at crop diversification properly. There are high-value crops that we must promote, especially in the farming blocks that we have introduced. By the way, I want to remind the hon. Minister of Agriculture to provide services and infrastructure, such as roads, in the 100,000 ha farming block in Lufwanyama. I think it is high time he did that. He should provide roads so that serious investors go there to set up farms. You keep talking about irrigation, but this is one area in which there is guaranteed rainfall because it is near to the North-Western Province and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), where the rain pattern is fairer than in other areas. Actually, I would like the hon. Minister to go to Lufwanyama to see the situation for himself. The chief of the area gave the Government the 100,000 ha for the farming block. Therefore, the hon. Minister should do what he can to quickly provide the infrastructure required for that place to be called a farming block. For example, he should extend the road that goes past Lufwanyama Boma to Kankolonkolo because that is where the farming block is located. Let us have a tarred road there as quickly as possible.

Mr Pande: Hear, hear!


Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, the cost of production, in general, and that of fertiliser, in particular, is very high, but I did not hear the hon. Minister talk about how he will ensure that there is no deficit in maize production next year due to this factor. I read somewhere that South Africa is importing maize from Brazil and Ukraine. If we lower the cost of production, we can export maize to that country and add to our much-needed foreign exchange earnings. We have allowed the cost of production in Zambia to remain too high, yet we eat subsidised food from other countries. In fact, I thank God that there is a drought in the southern part of Africa because we need to take this as an opportunity for us to do something. So, I hope that the hon. Minister of Finance, whom I love and the hon. Minister of Agriculture praises, will give the Ministry of Agriculture additional money from the Contingency Fund so as to subsidise agricultural production. As things stand, most commercial farmers will not venture into maize growing because of the cost of fertiliser. They would rather grow soya beans because it is a high-value crop while maize is very expensive to grow, but has low returns. So, we should identify the high-value crops that we can promote among small-scale farmers. Paprika, for example, is a high-value crop that has high demand in Europe. However, it has been very difficult to penetrate the European market. Therefore, let us find markets for crops that Zambians can grow.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister talked about promoting the growing of legume plants, which include beans. Let us encourage people who are able to grow beans by giving them the necessary inputs and find market for their produce. In fact, I suggest that we add value to the beans that we grow. Let us can it for export. Why should we eat imported beans? I do not eat the beans from our restaurant ...


Mr Namulambe: Yes, because I have been told that it is imported. I can only eat beans grown in Zambia. In fact, I wish that all of us who eat that beans could boycott it. It is better to buy Solwezi beans and boil it for breakfast. We have to promote our own crops.

Sir, we should encourage the production of cassava, add value to it and export it. Currently, we are mourning with those who are about to lose jobs in the mines, but those people have an alternative to their current jobs, namely, agriculture. If we promote agriculture, we can forget about the mines and ask the mining house, if they want to close their mines, to go ahead and do so. When the investors go, our copper will still remain and we can temporarily depend on agriculture and only go back to mining when the price of copper goes up again.

Mr Chairperson, this …

Mr Katambo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Namulambe: Ya, mukwasu naye, uyu!


Mr Katambo: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this point of order. You know that I rarely rise on points of order.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katambo: However, I am compelled to raise this one.

Sir, are those hon. Members, one of whom is a member of our mighty party, the Patriotic Front (PF), Hon. Masumba, while two are members of the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD), in order to sit in the seats vacated by senior United Party for National Development (UPND), implying that they are senior members of the UPND?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Actually, I have also been wondering why they are seated there.


The Chairperson: However, since, sometimes, we have the freedom to sit anywhere, I was constrained from doing anything about it. I do, however, suppose that the three hon. Members will take this point of order into account.

Continue, hon. Member for Mpongwe.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I am actually feeling cold here because my neighbour, Hon. Masumba, is one of those who have gone to sit on the other side.

Mr Chairperson, the El Niño phenomenon that we are hearing about is serious. So, we, as a country, ought to plan for it and have three-year strategic food reserves. Exporting maize on the basis of anticipated additional yields will disappoint us one year. It would be better if our food reserves could cover us for more than one year so that we do not fall into the trap of importing yellow maize from some other country again. We have to plan proactively.

Sir, it is also important for us to invest more in research. The money that has been allocated to agricultural research is not enough. For example, we think that wheat grows under irrigation and that it must, consequently, be only grown in winter, yet countries like Turkey grow rain-fed wheat all year round. So, we can also do the same. The National Research Institute in Turkey wants to partner with our research institutes here in Zambia. So, why do we not go into that partnership so that we can have some research technology and knowledge transfer? The effects of climate change are serious and, unless we plan ahead of them, we will become a laughingstock. Research might not yield results in one day, but over a period of time. So, the signs that we are getting are a good indication of our need to start investing more in research. I know that there are several crop varieties that we have created, but we can do far much better. This afternoon, the Vice-President’s Office had difficulties telling the House what crop varieties should be planted in some regions because the drought resistance of our crop varieties has not been researched. We just grow them on assumption, and trial and error, a practice that is very expensive to the small-scale farmer. Imagine a person buying fertiliser at K450 per bag and planting his crops just for the rains to fail him or her. It is disastrous.

Sir, let us, as a country, invest more in agricultural production and lower the cost of production.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to say a few words regarding this very important ministry.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister made a very focused statement on where he wishes to see the agricultural sector in 2016/2017. However, I would like to remind him that he does not produce anything.

Mr Masumba sneezed.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Somebody has sneezed.


Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Sir, the hon. Minister of Agriculture does not grow anything. So, he must make the environment right for our hardworking farmers to grow the much-needed maize, sorghum and horticultural crops.

Sir, the hon. Minister talked about the irrigation projects in Momboshi, Chisamba and Lusitu in the Southern Province. Those have been long-running projects that we want to see completed. I suggest that the communist modality of accessing the irrigation funds should be reviewed. The hon. Minister has directed that three to five farmers must get together in order to have an earth dam dug for them. Although this directive seems very good, I think that a mix of communal and individual projects will serve us better because when individuals invest money in a project, they want to see returns. So, they will not have to point at anybody ...


The Chairperson: Order, at the back!

You are disturbing the hon. Member’s line of thought.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: They will not be complacent like people often are when State assets are concerned. So, I trust this young hon. Minister will not dismiss my suggestion about adopting a mixed approach. We debate here because we represent our people, but some of these ideas also come from many other people. So, it is a matter of sharing.

Mr Chairperson, Mumbwa is on the e-Voucher System, but it has no reception for Parliament Radio for the people there to hear the hon. Minister speak so well and with a focused mind. It is important for us to reach the farmers in the outlying areas with local agricultural information, such as weather patterns and prices of inputs. I am perturbed that one of the senior officers in the ministry refused to use Blue Sky FM, the only radio station in Mumbwa, because I have an interest in it and I am a member of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). That refusal was despite the fact that the radio station disseminates apolitical information. This institution is here because we want to contribute to national food security through the provision of accurate information. Now, if the hon. Minister says one thing and his officers say another, what is supposed to happen? There is confusion at the district level. I strongly believe that the hon. Minister does not subscribe to such behaviour, but he is here, in Lusaka. So, ultimately, the ones who matter are those in the districts. I really hope it is only my district that is going through this.

Mr Chairperson, still on the e-Voucher System, there were incidents where chairpersons of co-operatives were asked to deposit up to K200,000 in Lusaka and that created a lot of apprehension because it was difficult for people to entrust another person in Lusaka with that much money. Even to trust someone to cross Cairo Road with that amount of money can be a problem. So, we were waiting for information on where the money could be deposited for our farmers to access inputs.

Sir, we should take the El Niño phenomenon seriously and construct earth dams urgently. Although that concerns the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, I hope that there will be close liaison between it and the Ministry of Agriculture on agriculture-based interventions to save our animals in places experiencing drought. For some places, cattle are the only means of exchange and source of wealth.

Mr Chairperson, I support the Vote for the Ministry of Agriculture, but the money allocated is not enough. I believe that agriculture is one of the means to sustainable socio-economic development. Our land will be arable forever if we look after it well. That should be the point of focus as we concentrate on agriculture. We know that it can sustain this country for generations to come, and that is why more money is required in this sector. We can even cut money from the prestigious road projects. Some people may argue that the farmers need the roads to transport their produce to the market. However, the farmers would rather struggle to get what they have produced to feed the ever-growing population than to not have proper yields. So, I hope that the hon. Minister of Finance will use some of the contingency funds to increase the allocation to this ministry so that we can promote the agriculture value chain and create employment for our young technicians in the relevant fields.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, I thank the hon. Minster for his well-presented statement. I would also be failing in my duties if I did not recognise the beautiful contributions by Hon. Namulambe and Hon. Brig-Gen. Chituwo, who raised some very profound issues in their debates.

Sir, I am compelled to contribute to the debate on this Vote because of the importance of agriculture to the people of Zambia. I have no doubt in my mind that the answer to Zambia’s economic problems lies in agriculture, not the mines.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Very correct.

Mr Mtolo: We are struggling to find an effective solution to the problems in the mines while allowing a very valuable part of our culture to lie dormant. I think we can do better. I say that the sector is dormant not because there is nothing happening, but because we are not exploiting its full potential. If we want our country to change, we need to fund agriculture adequately. It is a shame that Hon. Dr Katema and Hon. Prof. Luo are not here because I would, again, have said that we are wasting money on some ministries instead of giving it the ones that really matter to this country.

Bishop Lt-Gen. Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Sir, Zambia is a poor country. So, and we need to develop agriculture to develop our people. Almost 80 per cent of Zambians are poor, yet almost the same percentage live in rural areas. I am sure that almost everyone in this House has a field either in their villages or in their backyards. That is how strongly entrenched this field is in the Zambian psyche. It is in our blood. We are wired to cultivate the soil, not to go underground and dig for copper. That is why the mining sector is dominated by foreigners.

Sir, let me explain why I think we are not doing well in the agricultural sector. The hon. Minister said that out of the 2,750,000 ha potential for irrigation, we only use 200,000 ha. Simple mathematics shows us that only 7 per cent of land in Zambia that can be irrigated is actually under irrigation. Meanwhile, we keep complaining about the effects of the El Niño phenomenon. For example, today is 19th November, 2015, but it has not yet rained in most areas of the country, and we are hoping and praying for the rains to come in earnest. What if it does not rain at all? Similarly, the hon. Minister stated that we receive 160,000,000,000 m3 of on-land running water, yet we only harvest 60,000,000,000 m3. Why do we complain about inadequate rainfall when we waste 100,000,000,000 m3 of water when it does rain? Hon. Brig-Gen. Chituwo brought out the very important point that the hon. Minister does not cultivate and that he should, therefore, provide the right conditions for farmers to do their job. This is one of the areas in which he can create an enabling environment. Instead of wasting a lot of money here and there, we should start harvesting the surface water that falls on our land and I think that is the role of the hon. Minister of Agriculture.

Mr Chairperson, the Government should not waste money on some ministries because the Ministry of Agriculture requires it for actual production. That is where we are going wrong and, as long as we do not address these issues and just pass this over 2,000-paged document, we will not develop as a country. We are wasting so much money on roads that lead to the mines and denying citizens electricity in preference to providing it to the mines, which contribute very little to the gross domestic product (GDP) and the National Treasury. The tax revenue from that industry is worryingly low while the agricultural sector can benefit the people and create wealth for the country. For example, we produce about 2.6 million metric tonnes of maize. However, if we produced 10 million metric tonnes and sold it at the average international price of US$350 per tonne, we would earn US$3.5 billion. If we produced double that amount, we would earn US$7 billion. So, we would not need to worry about the mines and the sovereign funds that the hon. Minister talked about would be created because any money earned from the mines would be saved while we subsist on the earnings from maize production. Mind you, I have only talked about how much we could earn from maize. If I added tobacco, groundnuts and soya beans, and livestock, we would be talking about a lot of money. So, our life line is agriculture.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, what we are doing in this country is wrong. We are wasting money on an asset that gives us money, but is very difficult to operate and earn that income while we neglect the gold in our hands. So, Hon. Lubinda and Hon. Evans should look into that issue, and that is what this House should be discussing. We should not come here and discuss the House of Chiefs.


Mr Mtolo: Sir, it was a simple preamble, but I think I have debated effectively for everyone to get the sense.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about cassava. Year in and year out, I have stated that as long as the cassava produced in Zambia is soaked in water, it will continue to have low international appeal. I do not even know why we continue to do that.

Mr Mbewe: Ask the Bembas.

Mr Mtolo: We can get the equipment for processing cassava from the Nigerian International Institute of Tropical Agriculture (IITA) or the Empresa Brasileira de Pesquisa Agropecuária (EMBRAPA) or, in English, Brazilian Agricultural Research Corporation because cassava production is big business in Brazil. I visited that country. So, I know what I am talking about. The hon. Minister can send his officers on a study tour to Brazil so that we can learn how to process our cassava in a way that retains its nutritional value. Only then will it be bought by people from other countries. Currently, we just waste it. I once worked at the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and we had many sheds full of cassava, but it went to waste because it had been soaked. So, we just gave it to the millers to add to maize meal.

Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about the FRA.


Dr Kasonde: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Chairperson, I am very concerned.

Sir, the hon. Member for Chipata Central is suggesting that the method of preparing cassava that has kept our people safe from konzo for years should now be abandoned, yet we know that this is the proven safe way of preparing cassava in our villages. Is he in order to mislead the country …


Dr Kasonde: … on such an important issue?

I seek your ruling, Sir.

The Chairperson: Hon. Mtolo, please, take that point of order into account as you debate.

Mr Mtolo: Sir, I will respect the point of order because you have directed me to do so. Otherwise, I would not have done it because it is not correct.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Mtolo: Sir, I can prove that I am right outside this House. I did not say that people should stop preparing cassava like they have been doing, but that as long as we soak it, no international firm will buy it. If we want our cassava to have an international appeal, we should process it differently. That is what I said.

Hon. Government Members: How?

Mr Mtolo: We can buy small pieces of equipment that can crush the cassava and preserve its nutritional value, especially the starch, which is the main appeal of cassava.

Sir, the hon. Minister who interrupted my debate has not responded to my question about the insects that are biting people along the Great East Road. We want that answer.

Sir, before I was interrupted, I was about to talk about the FRA.


Mr Mtolo: Mr Chairperson, the clock is ticking and will not wait for the hon. Minister to stop disturbing me.

Sir, as long as the FRA will continue buying and selling maize, it will continue to be politicised. Since 2016 is an election year, we should be honest with ourselves, in terms of whether the budget for the FRA will be sufficient because when people start complaining that the Government has not bought their maize, the Government might be forced to buy more, like we did this year. I was very happy to hear that, as of 10th October, 2015, we had only bought 530,000 metric tonnes. That is excellent because it was the hon. Minister’s projection. I hope the hon. Minister will continue working that way.

Sir, this House has been told that the favourable climatic conditions are shifting from the Southern part of this country to the northern part. Since the people of the Eastern Province produce many crops, it is important for the province to have an agricultural institute. So, the hon. Minister should consider establishing an agricultural college, preferably a university, in a centrally-located district of the Eastern Province. If that is done, it will help many people to produce crops. Currently, the people have scanty knowledge that they pick in the community, or learn from Mpika College of Agriculture or Monze College of Agriculture.

Mr Chairperson, the allocation to irrigation is inadequate. We could increase on the 200,000 ha under irrigation by bringing appropriate irrigation systems in the country for use by the small-scale farmers. It is amazing that although the Eastern Province is one of the largest producers of crops in the country, it has no irrigated farms worth talking about. There are two. One is in Sinda and is owned by Sable Transport and Construction Company while I do not know the owners of the other, but it uses centre pivot irrigation. Just imagine how much more crop the province would produce if irrigation systems were developed there.

Sir, time is not with me. So, let me end by thanking you for the opportunity to earnestly support this Vote although I feel that it is totally and horrendously under-funded.

 I thank you, Sir.

 Mr Lubinda:  Mr Chairperson, I am short of words with which to thank the hon. Members who have debated the allocation to the Ministry of Agriculture for their valuable contributions. There are only two issues that I should clarify.

Sir, let me start with my hon. Colleague, Mr Namulambe’s contribution. I hope he is hearing me wherever he is. He might have outdated information on the distribution of seed for Mpongwe because, as I speak, all fertilisers and seed meant for Mpongwe under FISP is already in the district. So, my colleague should just tell his farmers’ organisations to pay their contributions and start accessing the inputs.

Sir, I cannot agree more with Hon. Namulambe’s sentiments on the high cost of fertilisers because that was the subject of a statement I made to this House only last week. I explained the Government’s frustration over the cost of fertiliser and the impact it will have on the next farming season. Therefore, his suggestion that the Government further subsidises agriculture by subsidising fertiliser merits consideration. Currently, the Government subsidises agriculture through FISP to the tune of K2.1 billion every year and the fact that the country has produced 3 million metric tonnes of maize every year for the last five years is attributable to this subsidy. This means that the maize that is produced in Zambia costs taxpayers K700 per metric tonne, which is already a huge subsidy to the whole agricultural sector. So, the Government is actively pursuing other alternatives for lowering the price of fertiliser, including encouraging investors to set up fertiliser factories in Zambia. I shudder to imagine what could have happened had this Government not taken the bold step of recapitalising the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ). If we were not producing our own Compound-D fertiliser in Zambia, the cost of producing maize would have been higher.

Sir, I agree with Hon. Namulambe that the zoning of a country is very important. However, Zambia is not a new country in agricultural production. So, it has already been mapped and the information on the ecological zones of the country is readily available. The maps show the areas of greatest potential for production of particular crops and livestock. So, if Hon. Namulambe would like it, I can make the information available to hon. Members of Parliament because it is important for them to guide the farmers in their constituencies correctly.

Mr Chairperson, I like Hon. Namulambe’s enthusiasm for buying Zambian-made products. That is the way to go. If all of us were to change our mindset and realise that no one else will grow our industries apart from us, then, we would make progress. On the issue of his boycotting imported baked beans, I suggest that he extends that innovation to include replacing white maize with orange maize, sorghum and cassava because, currently, every Zambian wrongly thinks that the only edible thing worth calling food is nshima made of white maize. Many shun roller meal for refined mealie meal, yet the latter is the least nutritive kind of mealie meal on the market. I, therefore, encourage Hon. Namulambe and all the other hon. Members of Parliament to become role models and show our communities that the mugaiwa milled in a local milling plant is more nutritive than the very refined breakfast white maize meal that people buy.

Mr Chairperson, let me comment on the cassava debate.

Sir, our people have been consuming cassava for centuries and the people at the Zambia Agricultural Research Institute (ZARI) have conducted a lot of research on the crop. Consequently, the cassava that we now produce is not as difficult to grow as it used to be many years ago because it has been improved. I would also like to say that Hon. Mtolo is right in saying that the cassava produced for industrial use is processed differently from that meant for human consumption. Additionally, I would like to just inform him that there are many companies in Zambia that are already studying the processing of cassava for industrial use. I also agree with him that the production of the crop is hampered by a lack of market. Many of our people are being encouraged to grow cassava, but their crop has no market. As a result of that, they reduce their production.

Sir, I am very fortunate that the hon. Minister of Finance was once a Minister of Agriculture, and he has a passion for this sector. He has told me, quite often, how some countries, such as Nigeria, have got to a stage at which their bread flour is a blend of wheat and cassava. That is meant to create a market for the small-scale farmers who cannot grow wheat, but have a high capacity to grow cassava. That is the way to go, and I assure Hon. Mtolo that we are not sitting back on that, but working very hard to improve the marketability of the cassava product of our small-scale farmers. We are also engaged in serious discussions with some international agricultural companies that are thinking about setting up large-scale cassava plantations.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Namulambe spoke about cashew nuts while Hon. Mtolo and Hon. Brig-Gen Dr Chituwo spoke about diversifying the economy. I stated before that whereas copper prices will only rise up to about US$12,000 per metric tonne, cashew nuts, as of today, are trading at US$50,000 per metric tonne. The two are totally incomparable. That is why I said that we have been looking at the possibility of resuscitating this industry. Just last week, the AfDB announced that its board had decided to make available US$45 million to the Government of Zambia for investing in the cashew industry. So, you can see that we are serious about this industry. Yes, it is shameful that one of our neighbouring countries came and took some seeds from us and planted them, and that, today, that country’s cashew industry is more vibrant than ours. That is partly because that country imported some seed varieties that are more suitable to this ecological zone than the ones that we started with in Zambia. We are also considering that because we are determined to resuscitate this industry.

Sir, our attitude in this country that the Government must provide the necessary infrastructure before people can get into farming must change. Unless we change that mindset, especially we, in this House, we will discourage our farmers. There are a number of farmers in this country who have gone and opened up large tracts of land on their own, without asking the Government to provide electricity. My dear colleagues, the two hon. Deputy Ministers of Fisheries and Livestock, and Agriculture, visited Amatheon Farm in Mumbwa yesterday. I also visited the farm a few months ago. Without any investment from the Government, that company opened up roads in the area and huge tracts of land on which it is growing wheat and soya beans. My going there was for purposes of commissioning the construction of two dams. The two hon. Deputy Ministers went there to commission an irrigation system and livestock centres. Another example that I can give is that of Zambeef, which opened up more than 2,800 ha on which it is growing palm trees for processing of palm oil in Mpika without waiting for the Government to build roads and irrigation systems first. The final example is Global Plantation in Lufwanyama, which also opened up an area. The Government invested more than US$50 million to open up Nansanga Farm Block but, if you go there, you will find that there is nothing happening. So, it is not just a lack of infrastructure, but also the mindset of our people. So, I appeal to everyone not to wait for the Government to put up a dam before settling in an area and working on the land.

Sir, I agree with Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo that we cannot be communist in our approach to dam construction, and I like the fact that he chose the word ‘mixed’. The monies that are available for the development of irrigation schemes are meant for public institutions. You may remember that I reported to this House that the Prisons Department and the Zambia National Service (ZNS) were the two public institutions that benefitted from that fund. Next year, the two institutions will go not only into maize production, but also wheat production. However, there is some other money meant for small irrigation schemes, which is meant for co-operatives and farmers’ groups. The Government is also aware that there are some private investors who would like to access financing to set up private irrigation schemes, and that borrowing is very expensive in Zambia. So, we are in serious discussions with a number of bilateral agencies, one of which is the EU in the 11th European Development Fund (EDF), for them to create a window through which investors like Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo can access funding. The amount we are looking at is 85 million Euros.

Mr Chairperson, ...

The Chairperson: How I wished we could pass your ministry’s budget tonight.

Mr Lubinda: Yes, Sir.

Sir, in conclusion, let me thank my hon. Colleagues, particularly the hon. Members of the Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD), Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo and Mr Mtolo, for representing their constituencies so eloquently. I am particularly indebted to Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo, who went to witness our launch of the e-Voucher System in Mbabala. I personally invited all the hon. Members of Parliament in the thirteen districts where the scheme is being piloted and I am grateful that he did not join the hon. Members who decided to shun the launch of such an important programme. As a token of appreciation, I will make sure that the complaints he has raised with me today are followed up. I also assure him that the people of Mumbwa are now accessing mobile banking because of the e-Voucher System. We mean business and we shall reach every part of the country irrespective of whether their hon. Members of Parliament will speak for them by being in this House or shall shun their responsibilities by staying away from it. We are determined to deliver development without delay. That is our pledge to the Zambian people.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 89/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 89/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, you will note that we have Vote 21 ‒ Loans and Investments – Ministry of Finance, and Vote 37 ‒ Ministry of Finance on today’s Order Paper. However, it has been brought to our attention that there are some amendments that have to be made to the two Votes. Therefore, we will consider them tomorrow.

There being no further business, the Committee will report progress and ask leave to sit again.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)




The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1946 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 20th November, 2015.