Debates- Tuesday, 17th November, 2015

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Tuesday, 17th November, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]





The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for granting me this opportunity to update the House and the public on the reported outbreak of a disease at the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) in Lusaka. This is following a point of order raised by the Member of Parliament for Kasenengwa, Hon. Kalima.

Sir, on the 10th of November, 2015, the Ministry of Health received a report from Levy Mwanawasa General Hospital indicting that more than 140 students from the NRDC had presented to the hospital an assortment of symptoms, including fever, sore throat, chest pain, headache and fainting episodes. The first of the cases to be presented to the Levy Mwanawasa General Hospital were seen on the 6th of November, 2015.

Mr Speaker, following this report from Levy Mwanawasa General Hospital, the Ministry of Health immediately instituted a team of experts to investigate the outbreak. The team went to the NRDC and screened a total of seventy-eight students. Many of the students screened presented flu-like symptoms which included the following:

(a)    running nose;

(b)    sore throat;

(c)    irritation and redness of eyes;

(d)    diarrhoea;

(e)    fever;

(f)    headache; and

(g)    general body pains and weakness.  

Mr Speaker, biological samples, including blood stool and throat swabs, were collected from forty-eight students for the final further analysis, which was done. The initial examination of 140 students at Levy Mwanawasa General Hospital indicated that all had normal vital signs. A total of forty-four out of the 140 had blood collected for investigations, which included full blood count and malarial rapid diagnostic test. The results were all within normal range.

Sir, the Ministry of Health team further carried out an inspection of the hostels, kitchen and dining areas. Water and food samples, which included raw beef, milk and cooked chicken, were collected for laboratory analysis. In addition, veterinary experts carried out a survey of the animals in the institution and they did not find any evidence of disease among the animals. Blood and stool specimen were collected from the animals on the 11th of November, 2015, and forwarded to Balmoral Research Centre for further examinations.

Mr Speaker, laboratory tests on the samples collected from the students have confirmed that the current outbreak at the NRDC is due to Influenza H3N2 Virus. This is a non-life threatening infection that is spread from person-to-person. Influenza H3N2 is in circulation around the country. It is common to have outbreaks of influenza in schools and colleges, as is the case at the NRDC, because you have a number of people gathered in one place.

Sir, I would like to assure the nation that this infection poses no danger to the students and members of staff at the NRDC hence, the college should continue operating normally. However, the Ministry of Heath will continue to monitor the situation at the institution. Any students who develop symptoms are encouraged to immediately report to Levy Mwanawasa General Hospital. Our medical staff is ready and equipped to deal with any cases that may arise.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the statement made by the hon. Minister of Health.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Health for the statement that has served to allay the fears of the public regarding the alarming statements about the unknown disease that broke out at the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC).

Sir, now that the Ministry of Health has established that the disease is influenza, has it been able to establish its source and how it migrated to the NRDC.

 Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for asking that pertinent question. Our experience is that it is very difficult or, indeed, impossible to say where influenza arises from. Of course, we would able to say if it was to spread from the NRDC to elsewhere, but since it started at the NRDC, we cannot say where it originated from. Unfortunately, this is the state of affairs.

 Sir, thank you.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, could there be peculiar environmental conditions such as overcrowding that could have caused the outbreak and if so, what advice has the ministry given to the college authorities to improve on it.   

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Mumbwa Constituency for raising this issue regarding the condition at our institutions across the country. Indeed, there was an inspection of the institution. Due attention was paid to those factors, including overcrowding, that are relevant whenever there is a rapid spread of any health condition. In this case, the tests did not actually identify any particular aspect of the institution which was due for correction in terms of cleanliness and hygiene.

 Nevertheless, Sir, the institution is a collection of students in one place, and so, it must be assumed that any condition that brings too many people together will lead to the rapid spread of illness. So, whereas we can admit that the large number of people being in the same place contributed, we cannot say that this particular institution, on the day of inspection, was really in a state that we would be concerned about.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, so far, we have only heard that this disease was prevalent at the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) and that the cases were reported to the Levy Mwanawasa Hospital. Have any of the health centres, particularly in Lusaka, recorded similar cases? If so, what message has the ministry got for the general public in Lusaka and the country at large?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for raising this question. Influenza episodes occur sporadically and affect individuals across the country. We know that there have been individual cases. What we are dealing with is when a large number of infections occur at one time and it becomes a serious issue of epidemic. So, I certainly agree that this is a continuing problem, as far as individuals across the country are concerned. However, in all cases, and as I said, it is a benign and non-fatal condition. It has not been necessary to follow up these individuals. In this case, it becomes significant only because of the fact that when large numbers are affected, you have an epidemic that is liable to spread.

Sir, in terms of advice to the students, former students and colleagues, firstly, it has been shown that frequent washing of hands prevents the spread of those droplets which might have been caught by the hand. Secondly, we know that the transmission is from person-to-person through droplets from the nose or mouth. Therefore, whenever there is suspicion of such a condition in a person who is close to you, it is better that that person is kept at a distance or a musk won. Those are the pieces of advice that I can offer.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, is it not possible for the ministry to quarantine the patients, in this case the students at the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC), and treat them from the college instead of asking them to go to the Levy Mwanawasa Hospital?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, quarantining is not something that we would normally do when we do not anticipate rapid spread. In this case, it has not been considered that quarantining is appropriate. Indeed, it has been considered that students should continue with their studies. We do not believe that this case is serious enough to talk in terms of quarantine. Those who went to the hospital directly went there because at that time, the condition was not known. So, they were finding out what the problem was and getting treated. As soon as it was known that this was the case, the necessity of admission did not arise.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, despite lacking medical equipment to detect certain diseases, Zambia has some of the best medical personnel. Does the country have proper laboratory equipment, for instance, at the Levy Mwanawasa Hospital to help our medical staff to detect the actual problem and not just relying on symptoms which the medical staff will act on based on probability?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, with regard to the equipment that we have and its relevance to the conditions, one has to identify what the issue is and whether that issue requires additional equipment. In this case, there is no doubt, whatsoever, that the equipment necessary to diagnose influenza by laboratory tests was there. The equipment required to diagnose those other possibilities in their differential diagnosis, like stool in case of cholera, blood in the case of typhoid were and are available. I think that we should admit that there may be other conditions in which we might need equipment which we do not have. However, we have the assurance that in this case, we did have and do have.

I thank you, Sir.




170. Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central) asked the Minister of Justice:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to deploy magistrates to the newly-created districts of Luampa and Nkeyema;

(b)    if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

(c)    if there were no such plans, why.

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Mr Mukata): Mr Speaker, the Government, does, indeed, have plans to deploy magistrates to the newly-created districts of Luampa and Nkeyema. This will be done when Treasury authority is given to include magistrates on the establishment in these districts. Further, the Government intends to construct courts in those districts when funds become available as, currently, the two districts have no courts. So, the plans to deploy magistrates are there.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio: Mr Speaker, the Kaoma Magistrate Court is overwhelmed with cases. Can the ministry not consider sending the magistrates for these two districts to Kaoma to help at the magistrate court?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, I agree with the sentiments expressed by the hon. Member. However, as he has rightly pointed out, there is congestion at Kaoma Magistrate Court, and so, even if magistrates were sent there, the impediment would be space. Where would these magistrates be housed within Kaoma? The short to medium-term solution is that in Nkeyema, for example, ...


Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!
Mr Mukata: I am advised that the magistrates’ court in Nkeyema is under construction. So, once those court premises are completed, the magistrates from Kaoma will, then, be circuiting. They will be able to go to that locality, pending the deployment of substantive magistrates in that district. However, that point regarding congestion and the inaccessibility to adequate services is noted.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, besides Nkeyema and Kaoma, is the Government also considering sending magistrates to other newly-created districts like Rufunsa?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, yes, we definitely have such plans. It is a legal requirement that newly-established districts have a component of magistrates’ court infrastructure as well as local courts. There is even an infrastructure development plan which is updated from time-to-time.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, going by the follow-up question by the hon. Member for Kaoma Central, it appears that there are too many criminals in these two districts hence, the overwhelming number of cases. Therefore, is the Government not considering sending magistrates to camp for a short while in Nkeyema and Luampa to ensure that criminals in these districts do not come to our areas?


Mr Speaker: I think the hon. Minister addressed that aspect in his earlier response.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, there is a saying that, “Justice delayed is justice denied.” In this case, there is congestion regarding the court processes in Kaoma and many of the victims have their justice delayed, in which case their justice is denied. Why does the Government not find a solution to ensure that justice for the people in Kaoma prevails expeditiously?

Mr Mukata: Mr Speaker, I agree with the basic concept that justice delayed is justice denied. However, we cannot talk about this subject in isolation. It is not just Zambia which has problems in terms of access to justice. There are reports in the United States of America (USA) of people who are incarcerated and remanded for years without appearing before courts, and that is in a Western environment.

However, that is not a justification for our situation. We, obviously, have resource constraints, as many colleagues have lamented back and forth. It is, however, something that we are really working on. If we had the resources, today, we would be on the ground remedying the situation.

I thank you, Sir.


171. Prof. Willombe (Mporokoso) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to upgrade Mporokoso District Hospital to a general hospital in order to cater for the growing population;

(b)    if there were no such plans, why;

(c)    whether the Government had any plans to establish a nursing school at the hospital; and

(d)    if there were no such plans, why.


Mr Speaker: Order!

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to upgrade Mporokoso District Hospital to a general hospital. The plan has already been put in place and works have been budgeted for in the 2015 Budget with a provision of K6,345,911. There are also plans to establish a nursing school at Mporokoso General Hospital once the upgrade has been completed. It is the Government’s policy to have a nursing school at every general hospital.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Prof. Willombe: Mr Speaker, I am delighted that this upgrade is happening. The hospital is more than thirty years old and caters for a vast area with a population that really needs medical services. That is all I can say for now.


Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Mporokoso is, indeed, very happy. However, when we had a discussion, he said that since the upgrading of the hospital is provided for in the 2015 Budget and this is November, when will the works begin?

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the planning process is at an advanced stage. With the release of funds by the Ministry of Finance, the works will commence at the earliest possible time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, since the works will start in earnest, how long will it take to complete the programme?

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the works will take a year to complete from the date of commencement.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, will every hospital to be constructed in the near future have a nursing school?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, as I said earlier on, the policy is that general hospitals should have nursing schools. This is to ensure that the learning environment is supported by appropriate specialist staff.

I thank you, Sir.


172. Mr Mbewe asked the Minister of Fisheries and Livestock:

(a)    what measures had been taken to facilitate the export of beef to the following continents:

(i)    Africa; and
(ii)    Europe;

(b)    whether there were any private companies that had expressed interest in exporting beef;

(c)    if so, what their names were; and

(d)    what measures had been taken to ensure that Zambian beef met the export quality in view of corridor and other diseases in some parts of the country.

The Minister of Fisheries and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, Zambia cannot export beef within other countries in Africa and Europe due to the failure to meet the set standards in the countries on these continents and the presence of diseases such as Foot and Mouth Disease (FMD) and Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP). However, to facilitate the export of beef to Africa and Europe, the Government, through the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock, has taken various measures.

For the African market, the measures taken include carrying out surveillance for trade sensitive trans-boundary animal diseases like FMD and CBPP and vaccination of beef cattle. Other measures include the construction of checkpoints and quarantine facilities.

For the European market, measures being taken include the creation of, at least, one disease-free zone in the country. The ministry is also undertaking measures aimed at increasing the beef cattle number that is required to sustain the export market through the creation of breeding centres, promotion of artificial insemination, importation of improved breeds and improving management and nutritional status of the animals.

Mr Speaker, two companies have expressed interest in exporting beef to South Africa and Nigeria. These companies are Zambeef and Majoru.

Mr Speaker, to ensure that Zambian beef meets the export quality in view of corridor and other diseases in some parts of the country, the following measures have been taken:

(i)    animal disease surveillance, including anti and postmortem inspections by veterinarians;

(ii)    disease control thorough movement control and vaccinations;

(iii)    creation of disease-free zones;

(iv)    investment in laboratory facilities at the Central Veterinary Research Institute, Balmoral Research Centre, and regional laboratories in Choma, Chipata, Mongu, Kasama, Ndola and Solwezi;

(v)    introduction of compliance incentives to international standard through development of regulations;
(vi)    enforcement of compulsory farmer registration as provided for in the Animal Health Act No.27 of 2010; and

(vii)    feasibility studies on the animal identification and traceability system are being undertaken.

I thank you Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Sir, Botswana is exporting beef to Europe. This is so because it manufactures its own vaccines. During the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) era, the Government had planned for Balmoral Research Centre to start manufacturing some vaccines. May I find out from the hon. Minister how far the programme to manufacture our own drugs and vaccines has gone so that we can start exporting our beef.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member paid attention to my response, he would have heard me say that we are in the process of ensuring that Balmoral Research Centre starts manufacturing these vaccines to ensure that we eradicate the spread of diseases which are hampering us from exporting beef.

Mr Speaker, that aside, whether or not the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) started this programme, suffice it to say that we are in the process of ensuring that we reduce diseases. There are many measures which I have outlined to be put in place to mitigate the challenge of animal diseases.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I think it is a known fact …

Mr Lufuma: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Chadiza in order to say that there were intentions to manufacture vaccines under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) era when, in fact, he was part and parcel of the MMD? Is he in order to exclude himself from the error or era?


Mr Speaker: There is really nothing wrong. He was just defining an epoch.


Mr Speaker: He was defining an epoch so there is nothing wrong with that.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I think it is a known fact that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is emphasising the concept of diversification to move away from the mono-culture economy and the creation of this ministry is a testimony of that. Therefore, in order to walk the talk, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister for Livestock and Fisheries the time frame that has been set within which you, as a ministry, can start exporting beef so that we can actually consolidate the process of diversification?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, I did mention that there are many factors that have been outlined to ensure that we are able to meet the standards required for us to export beef. As I said, some of the measures we are putting in place are the creation of regional laboratories which are in Choma, Chipata, Mongu, Kasama, Solwezi and Ndola, the control of livestock movement and the creation of disease-free zones. For now, even with all these measures put together, we may not be precise by saying that we want to start exporting beef in the next six months because these are quite huge infrastructure engagements. When you look at the protocols, I think, there are so many barriers, tests and requirements that we need to meet in order for us to qualify for the exportation of beef. However, with these measures in place, I think that we will soon get there.

I thank you Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Health and the medical doctors who are in this assembly can testify that the revolution in the world is now moving towards grass-fed animals. Eating beef from grass-fed cattle is the revolution the world is moving towards. Can the hon. Minister of Livestock and Fisheries inform the nation what the ministry is doing to take full advantage of this revolution towards grass-fed beef that has come into the world.

Mr Speaker: I am very reluctant to allow that question.


Mr Speaker: This is a new question all together. It is a very interesting question, but the hon. Minister needs notice so that he can also give a very informed answer just as informed as the question is.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I need clarification from the hon. Minster. In his response to one of the questions, he indicated that there are two companies which would want to start exporting beef. If I recall, …

Mr Speaker: Order on my right.

Mr Pande: … he said Zambeef and Majoru. However, I am fully aware that Zambeef had an outlet in Nigeria. Is he telling us that at that time, the beef was being obtained from within Nigeria?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, indeed, there are two companies in Zambia that have expressed interest in exporting beef. With regard to Zambeef providing beef in Nigeria, I can confirm with the hon. Member that the beef which is being sold in Nigeria is from cattle which is grown or farmed in Nigeria by Zambeef.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, in his response to the measures the Government is putting in place to enable Zambia export beef, the hon. Minister indicated that the Government is trying to create disease-free zones. This concept of disease-free zones dates back to the era of the previous administration. So, as a follow-up to what the hon. Member asked, is there a particular time frame within which farmers who will have their cattle in these disease-free zones have their cattle certified as disease-free and be exportable to, at least, neighbouring parts of Africa if not to Europe?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, having disease-free zones is not the only gauge for exporting beef. There are many other standards that require to be met such as the need to increase the population of our cattle in the country to ensure that we are able to meet the demand.

Mr Speaker, the attainment of all these standards is gradual. We may attach time frames that we may not achieve. As you may be aware, we are slowly getting there. For example, after all the tests were done and the sentinels put, we discovered that we were almost winning the fight against the diseases. Therefore, we are trying to lift the ban on the movement of animals within our country.

Sir, I do not want to falsely assure the House on when exactly we will meet the standards required to export beef except to say that we are working through the steps to ensure that we get there.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the Government is starting the process of manufacturing vaccines at the Central Veterinary Research Institute, Balmoral Research Centre. Now, we are taken aback because that station was already manufacturing vaccines as early as the 1990s. Therefore, what happened to that production capacity and are the vaccines that we come across on the market, purporting to be made from there, genuine?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, varied vaccines are required for varied diseases. Certain vaccines can be produced locally and others not.

Sir, production at Balmoral Research Centre experienced challenges like most of our industries during the time of privatisation. However, as a Government, we have really tried to revitalise the institute and other companies of similar importance. For example, the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) was defunct, but is now able to produce fertiliser. So, despite the challenges that the Central Veterinary Research Institute experienced, we are working to ensure that it manufactures vaccines within our country.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told the nation that Zambian beef does not qualify to be exported to Europe and other African countries. I just want him to confirm that Zambians eat sub-standard beef which is not fit for human consumption.


Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, I provided a list of requirements that we have to meet in order for us start exporting and one of them is the availability of beef. At the moment, our quantities cannot be opened up for export. Just on that basis, we cannot export. Other measures include the setting up ...

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let him finish.

Mr Lubinda: Livune!

Mr Speaker: It is premature to assume he will not answer the question. He has just started. He has a preface just like you have to your questions.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, if Hon. Mwiimbu paid attention to my responses, he must have heard that another hindering factor to our capacity to export beef is the lack of a trace-back system. Suppose there is a problem with the beef on the shelves, are we able to trace where the beef came from? We do not have the capacity to trace. This is hampering our desire to export.

Mr Speaker, there are set standards according to regions. Therefore, I cannot confirm that we eat substandard beef in Zambia. In fact, we eat the right beef and it is of high quality.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Monde: As a matter of fact, it is this beef that makes Hon. Mwiimbu look the way he does.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, the measures and the processes that the hon. Minister has kept on referring to as regards meeting standards to export beef started a long time ago.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Habeenzu: Sir, the hon. Minister’s answers to our questions are open-ended. We have tried to find out whether and when the said standards for beef exports will be attained, but he is not coming out clearly. What has been the cause of the delay in attaining the required standards? Can he come out clearly and explain so that we know.  

Mr Speaker: I will provide guidance here.

The hon. Minister outlined a number of measures that need to be undertaken before the exercise of exporting beef can start. In all fairness, he said that he cannot attach a timescale to that. This is an honest position to take. It would not be fair to try to press this question beyond that. I would rather hon. Ministers give honest responses ...

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: ... as opposed to statements and assurances which they cannot fulfil.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister cited animal disease in Zambia among the reasons we fail to export beef. He was very categorical in his statement. However, in his response to Hon. Mwiimbu’s question, he assured Zambians that the meat they eat is not substandard. How can he say that the meat we eat is of good quality when we are failing to meet international standards?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, focus on the health dimension of the matter.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, those that follow the studies around Botswana and its beef exports know that there are red zones from where animals are not allowed to export markets. In my response, I mentioned that we are trying to create disease-free zones where animals can be allowed to move.

Sir, as regards animal health in Zambia, we are saying that we cannot allow our animals to move from places where disease is prevalent.

Mr Speaker, I was in Kazungula Constituency over the weekend. You will note that about seven years ago, we had a livestock movement ban in the district because of the occurrence of the CBPP and FMD. However, we have worked around the clock and reduced the percentages of the occurrence of the diseases in the district from over 20 per cent to under 1 per cent.

 Owing to that, we are ready to lift the ban on the movement of livestock in the district. We are also working on reducing the incidence of CBPP and FMD in other regions where these diseases are rampant. Very soon, we will be able to eradicate these diseases. This Government is very serious about improving livestock production, and that is why this new Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock was created. The Government’s aim is to diversify this sector and get this economy up and running through livestock and fisheries.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, within the disease-free zones, we can have farmers who are capable of fulfilling some of the vital sanitary conditions that the hon. Minister spoke about. I am aware of certain cattle farmers in Kalomo who are so stringent in caring for their cattle. Can the hon. Minister try to identify certain farmers within the disease-free zones who can meet the requirements for us to export beef. Can the hon. Minister also confirm that there are farmers who can meet the requirements for us to export beef in the region so that we can get the much-needed foreign exchange?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, let me say that that would be one way to increase the creation of disease-free zones. We are not looking to create disease-free farms. We are looking to create disease-free zones. If we are going to be targeting farms, it will be very possible for diseased animals to infiltrate the disease-free farms. However, it will be easy for us to monitor diseases when we create a disease-free zone.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, I think that as much as we want to export beef, we should be aware that we have a deficit of beef within the country. So, what would we rather do? We would rather create enough beef for our consumption and then export the surplus. I think that we do not have pressure to export. The pressure is on imports for consumption within our country. We are trying to first meet the demand within our country and then we can export the surplus later. There are many measures we are putting in place to improve beef production. For example, I remember that Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa talked about feeding our cattle on green grass. He suggested that we should organically produce our animals. We are working on doing this to ensure that there is improved cattle production.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, animal diseases have to do with management. There is nothing very complicated about keeping animals. Adhering to the schedule on when the animals are supposed to be vaccinated and dipped helps to prevent diseases.

Sir, the hon. Minister said that we cannot export beef. However, is he aware that we have companies like ZAMBEEF, which has been given certification for its abattoirs by the International Organisation for Standardisation (ISO)? This means that the beef from its abattoirs can be exported.

Mr Speaker, I think that the process of eliminating livestock diseases should not be driven by the Government, but by the private sector. What is the Government doing to ensure that more extension officers are provided to assist livestock farmers to teach them better livestock management practices so that the number of animals can be increased? Has the budget for the Ministry of Fisheries and Livestock catered for the employment of more livestock extension officers?

Mr Speaker: Order!

You asked so many questions.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, I agree with my son, Hon. Jonas ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, he is an hon. Member. Those other filial connections are not for the Floor of the House.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, I agree with Hon. Shakafuswa’s view that animal diseases are a management challenge. As the Government, we are ensuring that we train our farmers to take the importance of eradicating animal diseases seriously. We are also putting in place by-laws that make it compulsory for farmers to dip their cattle in areas where we have East-Coast Fever.

Sir, I must also mention that yes, extension services are required for our farmers. We are also trying to reduce the size of our veterinary camps because they are very wide. Our budget has budget lines for extension services.  

Mr Speaker, I am also aware that ZAMBEEF has the International Organisation for Standardisation (ISO) certificate. However, the hon. Member should know that, that certificate is for the abattoirs and not for the source of the animals. That is where the challenge is. After all is said and done, we can, indeed, become a beef exporter with the support of hon. Members and the nation at large.

I thank you Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that one of the reasons we do not export beef is that of the animal diseases we have in the country. I agree with him that these diseases exist because veterinary officers have advised some people in certain localities to eat steak, but not offal meat. As a result, we have less offal meat on the market. Is the Government considering allowing some of our companies to import offal meat from countries where there are no livestock diseases, because some of us like offal meat?

Mr Speaker: Order!

You have now gone into importation, from exports. However, I will be gracious and allow the hon. Minister to answer.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, it is encouraging to hear that there are people from Mpongwe who love to eat offal meat. It is true that FMD is a challenge sometimes. As a result, some parts of cattle are not allowed to be eaten. However, like the Hon. Mr Speaker has advised, that question should be directed to the ministry responsible for issuing permits such as the Ministry of Agriculture. I am sure that the ministry concerned will quickly give the hon. Member a response.

I thank you, Sir.



The following Bill was read the third time and passed:

 The Employment (Amendment) Bill, 2015.




VOTE 27 – (Public Service Management Division – K848,567,200).

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to give the policy statement on the budget of the Public Service Management Division (PSMD).

Mr Speaker, the PSMD, in the Office of the President, is charged with the overall responsibility of human resource management in the Public Service. The PSMD derives its mandate from Gazette No. 183 of 2012, on Portfolio and Statutory Functions of Government Ministries and Departments. The specific portfolio functions are:

(a)    Public Service management;

(b)    human resource management and development; and

(c)    strategic and performance management services.

Sir, …


The Chairperson: Order, on my right!

Let us give Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning an opportunity to be heard.

Continue, Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: In implementing the 2015 Budget, the PSMD undertook the following major programmes and activities:

(a)    under Public Service management; the PSMD did the following:

(i)    harmonised the various staff file numbering systems in the Public Service into one staff file numbering system in order to efficiently process human resource cases;

(ii)    embarked on the process of computerising the file indexing system in the Public Service to facilitate efficient storage and retrieval of files;

(iii)    monitor personal emolument expenditure in order to ensure that it was within the approved the budget;

(iv)    completed the establishment of a group funeral insurance scheme for Public Service employees, which is expected to be operational in 2016;

(v)    successfully concluded negotiations with the ten Public Service Unions for improved salaries and other conditions of service; and

(vi)    trained 2,005 Public Service employees in entrepreneurship development, business mentorship and mind transformation, through the Future Search Project, thus, contributing positively to the Government policy on wealth and job creation in the country.

(b)    under human resource management and development, the PSMD did the following:

(i)    facilitated the recruitment and placement of officers in the Public Service; and

(ii)    undertook a qualifications audit to assess skills levels in the Public Service in order to facilitate decision-making on placement and progression of human resources as well as create a baseline for future training and development.

(c)    under strategic and performance management services; the PSMD finalised the development of :

(i)    the human resources planning framework, whose purpose is to guide ministries, provinces and other spending agencies on human resources planning; and

(ii)    the performance management package, monitoring and evaluation framework, whose aim is to evaluate the impact of the existing performance management system in the Public Service.

Sir, the total budget provision for 2016 is K848,567,200. Out of this figure, K805 million accounts for pension obligations, that is, pension grant and pension financing gap, which represents 94.8 per cent of the total PSMD 2016 budget, while 5.2 per cent is for PSMD personal emoluments and recurrent departmental charges.

Sir, through the 2016 Budget, the PSMD will continue with its mandate of providing strategic policy direction and leadership in management of human resources by focusing on the following areas:

(a)    under strategic and performance and management services, the PSMD will do the following:

(i)    implement the newly-developed Performance Management Package, Monitoring and Evaluation Framework, so as to determine the extent to which the performance management package is applied;

(ii)    embark on standardising work processes with the aim of ensuring improved performance and objective assessments of employee performance across the Public Service; and

(iii)    commence the implementation of the Human Resource Planning Framework in ministries, provinces and spending agencies in order to facilitate the transformation of the Public Service into a high performing institution that is responsive to the needs of the public.

(b)    under Public Service management, the PSMD will do the following:

(i)    endeavour to timely process salaries and ensure that personal emoluments expenditure is within the approved budget;

(ii)    roll-out the new staff numbering system to ministries, provinces and spending agencies in order to improve accountability and efficiency in processing of human resource cases for individual officers;

(iii)    continue to provide technical support in the re-organisation of registries and the process of computerising the file indexing system in the Public Service in order to facilitate an efficient retrieval of files;

(iv)    strengthen the operations of the disciplinary committees in ministries, provinces and spending agencies in order to ensure compliance to established disciplinary procedures;

(v)    operationalise the contributory group funeral insurance scheme for the Public Service whose aim is to provide suitable funeral benefits and services to Public Service employees;

(vi)    continue to implement the pay policy by rationalising and harmonising salaries and other conditions of service in the Public Service institutions. Further, the PSMD will continue to hold negotiations with the Public Service unions for improved salaries and other conditions of service for Public Service employees;

(vii)    undertake a survey with the objective of establishing a database on officers who intend to retire based on the options stipulated in Statutory Instruments No. 63 of 2014 and No. 24 of 2015, in order to adequately plan for their separation and replacement; and

(viii)    1,500 Public Service employees due for retirement have undergone entrepreneurship development, business mentorship and mind transformation through the Future Search Project in order to prepare them for life after Public Service;

(c)    under human resource management and development, the PSMD will:

(i)    review the human resource management guidelines and build capacity in the ministries, provinces and other spending agencies in line with the human resource management reforms in the Public Service; and

(ii)    develop a framework for talent management to support the acquisition and development of relevant skills and competencies in the Public Service.

Sir, in conclusion, the success of any nation is, to larger extent, dependant on the availability of competent human resource. Therefore, it is incumbent upon this august House to support the PSMDs Estimates of Expenditure on the proposed programmes and activities for 2016.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Vote. I need to declare interest because I have been a civil servant before. I support this division whole-heartedly and it requires all of us to support it.

Ms Lubezhi: Question!

Mr Muchima: Whilst I support this division, there are questions that need to be answered. The Public Service Management Division (PSMD) is supposed to be run by professionals ...

Mr Namulambe: He has taken my point.

Mr Muchima: ... but, unfortunately, civil servants are no longer being promoted based on merit. This has come about as a result of political interference.

Sir, from the colonial days, the Civil Service was meant to be detached from politics and was only meant to provide guidance in order to be fair to their people. Transfers are supposed to be done fairly. Someone should not be posted to Chilubi Island and be forgotten about making it almost impossible to trace his or her file upon retirement. What happens to people’s files? This is what breeds corruption as people want to be paid in order to look for these missing files. The process is supposed to run smoothly without interference, but the problem is that those in the Government have a tendency of threatening those who are professionals. The person appointed to the position of Secretary to the Cabinet should be a civil servant who has risen through the ranks of the Civil Service.

Mr Chairperson, not long ago, our PSMD was sleeping. That division cannot even remember some of the people who worked for the Government, like the late Mbilishi. What a shame. District Commissioners (DCs) are only called civil servants by name because they have become political cadres. We do not mind that they have a party to support, but let them have experience because DCs are in charge of all civil servants, including doctors and other professionals at district level. These professionals are answerable to people who do not even understand what they are doing at all. It seems that the PSMD cannot control anything because the appointments are not made by the Cabinet Office, but by an invisible hand under the guise of the Civil Service. This is killing us. Let us be professional. This is our country and we need to change.

Mr Chairperson, a Corolla will remain a Corolla just like a Nissan will remain a Nissan. Do not confuse the two. If DCs are politicians, then, let them be politicians so that we treat them the way we treat each other when we are in the field.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: 90 per cent of the time, they are politicians and 10 per cent of the time, they are civil servants. This has diluted their authority and power.

Sir, transfers should be based on merit. Do not dump people who have no connections deep in the rural areas while those who have connections are permanently based here. It is unfortunate that some civil servants have been forced to divorce their partners because one partner is not able to transfer as there are no vacancies. This happens mostly with teachers and it is very unfair. When a spouse is transferred, their partner should follow them so that they can live as one. Why does the Government want to keep some civil servants in urban areas permanently while others are in rural parts of the country? There is a need to motivate people by paying them well and providing opportunities for promotion without political influence.

Mr Chairperson, when I was a civil servant, I was sent to Mbala. However, I was not worried because I knew that I would be sent elsewhere and finally end up in Lusaka, but that is not the case today. Once you are dumped in one corner of the country, that is it for you unless you have connections.

Some of these sufferings that the civil servants are going through are caused by our attitude. We should let the division be professional and independent. We want a division that we can run to when we need help. Today, if a person died or retired, it would be very difficult to trace his or her files because the registries are not manned accordingly. This would even make it difficult for people to get their benefits. This Government has created a chaotic record-keeping system. A system is supposed to be automated. Whether there is someone in the office or not, the system must be working. Why should this Government miss files fifty-one years of independence, yet I hear Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning talking about having an automated system. Let it come to fruition. This idea should come to fruition.

Mr Chairperson, we want the Civil Service to be free from cheap politics. We also want our Civil Service to neither consider colour, tribe nor political affiliation.

Sir, today, when there is a change of Government, you see civil servants celebrating with the in-coming government. That is being unprofessional. The civil servants are supposed to be there to serve any Government in place.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, the other problem is the diversion of Government resources to political activities during elections. That is what is making the Civil Service inefficient. You find that most of the time, Government institutions have no money. However, during by-elections, leaders are seen hovering from one point to another with a convoy of vehicles. Where do they get the money from? We need to depend on the Civil Service to advise us correctly and not the other way round.

Sir, there is an issue of ghost workers. What has happened for such situations to arise? How does the Government fail to account for 158 hon. Members of Parliament? How does it fail to account for people in Chilubi, Ikeleng’i and Chama? When we were in the Government, we would call for nominal rolls. These were being sent to us every quarter of the year but today, it is business as usual. The issue of ghost workers is a cost to this country, but nobody seems to mind it. Let us do away with this mentality of appointing cadres who do not even understand the role of a civil servant. In a developed country, a civil servant is more important than a political cadre. In this vein, we need experienced officers to manage our welfare.

Mr Chairperson, I do not want to dwell on this topic for too long because there are some people, such as my father here, Hon. Namulambe, who also want to contribute to this debate. I would like to ask him to talk about …


Mr Muchima: All of us have fathers.


Mr Muchima: Sir, I would like him to talk about the issue of retirement age. This issue was approved without consultation. The majority of Zambians want to retire when they still have energy to run around. However, the Government wants to push them to retire at sixty-five? Even when we look around in this House, you will see that those who have already attained the age of sixty-five struggle to walk.


Mr Muchima: They even struggle to do certain things because they have no energy, but wisdom.

Brig-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.


Mr Muchima: Mr Chairperson, the age of fifty-five used to encourage young ones to also take up positions, but this Government has made old people continue serving in these offices. If one is working with someone who hates them, they would just get frustrated because they would be together for sixty-five years. It is unlike in politics where you wait for five years for the Government in power to be kicked out so that another Government comes in. In the Civil Service, you will have to wait for one to retire for someone else to take up that position. This issue of retiring at the age of sixty-five was done without consultation and it has frustrated most of the workers. Therefore, it needs to be revisited. If it is not revisited, we shall reverse it when we form the Government once again so that our people are retired at the age of fifty-five. I will end by stating that I support this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to debate and support the Motion pertaining to the Budget for the Public Service Management Division (PSMD).

Mr Chairperson, first and foremost, I would like to state that I emulate the Kenyan Constitution which has a proviso, amongst other articles, that states that the Public Service in Kenya must have the face of Kenya. What that means is that in Kenya, they ensure that all the tribes are represented in every Government organisation to enhance unity. They have ensured to do that. I hope that our Government will listen to what I am going to say.

Mr Chairperson, unlike what was obtaining under the United National Independence Party (UNIP) days and partly during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) days, currently, what we have observed in the Public Service is that there is a lot of tribalism, nepotism and favouritism employed when making appointments.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, it is not unusual to find almost 70 per cent of people in a particular department hailing from one region or belonging to one tribe. This is an institution of governance where every tribe in Zambia must be represented. The PSMD must operate the way the Zambia Army or other defence wings of the Government are operating, where they ensure that recruitments are made from every tribe and region of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, we do not want a situation whereby only one small grouping heads a certain department. This is causing high levels of inefficiency in Government organisations. There is a primary consideration when those who are heading these organisations want to appoint somebody. They look at someone who hails where they hail from. That should not be the case. We want the Public Service to have the face of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, you may have noticed what obtained in Nigeria. Immediately after the appointment of the current President, the executive was dissolved, but it was the Public Service that continued to run the Government up to last week. It was ensured that there was representation of every tribe and region in the Public Service. That is what Zambians are looking forward to. We do not want a situation whereby if my tribesman is the head of an organisation, then, everyone else in that department must hail from Monze.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, that should not be the case. Obviously, we should not promote favouritism and even as we create the face of Zambia, qualifications, experience and professionalism should be paramount.

Mr Chairperson, we have heard complaints that some people with certain names are not wanted in certain institutions.

Mr Muchima: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: If you have a particular name, you are aligned to one organisation, victimised, harassed and dismissed from institutions of governance. That should not be the case. We look forward to a Civil Service that will ensure that there is stability and professionalism. If there will ever be a new Constitution, we shall include a proviso that the Public Service should have the face of Zambia as one of the clauses.

Secondly, Mr Chairperson, the issue I would like to address concerns the appointment of District Commissioners (DCs). We have been told on the floor of this House that DCs are civil servants. However, what has transpired in practice is that they are not. They are politicians and wherever there are by-elections or general elections, they are in the forefront campaigning for the Ruling Party.

Ms Lubezhi: Correct!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, as a result, the civil servants who are being supervised by them feel frustrated. In most instances, the only qualification some of these DCs have is a birth certificate …


Mr Mwiimbu: … and the ability to insult, if that is a qualification. That is all they do.

Mr Nkombo: Kwasila.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, the Civil Service has many professional officers and some of them are post graduate holders, yet somebody whose sole qualification is that of being a Zambian with a birth certificate is appointed as a supervisor of a district or city like Lusaka. I recall that a call boy from Intercity Bus Station, …


Mr Mwiimbu: … who was a conductor for the late Mr Willie Nsanda …

Mr Livune: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: … became the DC for Lusaka.

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, can you imagine the frustrations that were created. As if that was not enough, when the Government realised that he was not able to perform as a DC for Lusaka, he was promoted to the position of Provincial Permanent Secretary for Lusaka.

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, as far as I am concerned, statements were made on the Floor of this House that there are no qualifications for the position of DC. All that is required is for one to be good at bootlicking and politicking.

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, the DC is the head of the Government at district level.

Mr Muntanga: Correct!

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, if he or she is the head, it is assumed that he or she should not have inferior qualifications to those whom he or she is supervising, but the case is the opposite. I have in mind a certain lady who was appointed as DC early this year in one of the districts in my colleagues’ constituency.

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: She used to sell fried groundnuts at the market in Monze.


Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, maybe, the appointing authority tasted the groundnuts and enjoyed them and that is why he appointed her …


Mr Mwiimbu: … because she has no qualifications.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, she is now a DC at a district in Monze, although I will not mention her name. All I can confirm is that this person is female.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: I am not against the fact that she is female, but the idea of appointing people to head institutions when they have no qualifications. It is not fair to the civil servants. In the district she is supervising, there are doctors, teachers, magistrates and even chiefs …

Ms Lubezhi: Four chiefs.

Mr Mwiimbu: … who are academically qualified, but are being supervised by a person who used to sell groundnuts.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I appeal to the appointing authority to consider qualifications when appointing people. I hope Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning is listening attentively, and I have no doubt about that. If the Government continues appointing people who have no qualifications, even the service provision at district level suffers. Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning will be held accountable for the failure of those groundnut sellers because she is the Head of Government. Those DCs are under her office and supposed to work and carry out assignments on her behalf. If they have no capacity, the one to be held responsible is Her Honour the Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning.

Mr Chairperson, …

Ms Kapata: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kapata: Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to rise this serious point of order. Is the hon. Member on the Floor, who is debating about qualifications of different people, in order not to mention that for one to be a presidential candidate for the United Party for National Development (UPND), he or she needs to be Tonga?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: I listened to the hon. Member’s debate and he was careful not to mention a particular tribe. I think that he is debating properly.

Continue, hon. Member.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, that is the tragedy of having members of the Executive who have no knowledge …

The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: I have already ruled that you are in order. Do not go back to the subject because I overruled her.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, I am not talking about her. I am saying that the Public Service is being supervised by people who are not knowledgeable about it …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … and are not qualified to hold the positions they do …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: … because all they think about is being tribal. That is what they preach about wherever they are and look for people who are their tribesmen or who hail from their constituencies. We have a problem in the Civil Service because of such people.


Mr Pande: Ma lawyers.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, finally, I just want to appeal to the Government to seriously consider putting the face of Zambia on display.

Sir, in Kenya, the face of that country is displayed even on public placards. For example, the faces the Kikuyus and the Luos are on display to represent the face of Kenya. Since we know the tribes that are found in Zambia, we can also create the face of this country so that everyone is included in the governance of this country.

 Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

 Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, our forefathers fought for Independence and coined the motto, ‘One Zambia, One Nation’ because they wanted to accommodate everyone. My appeal to the Government is that those who always think about tribe and once used to fear their shadows, but now fear their faces and have to cover themselves as a result should not start running.


Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Chairperson, if someone runs away from his or her face, he or she will not see anything, but collapse and die from envy.

 I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate this Vote.

 Sir, from the outset, I support the estimates for the Public Service Management Division (PSMD) because this is the engine of the Civil Service. At the moment, the division is working under stress because although it is based in Lusaka, it deals with all the Public Service workers in the whole country. It is high time that the Government decentralised this office to provinces in order to ease the processing of disciplinary cases, appointments and other related issues.

Mr Chairperson, during the Public Service Reform Programme, most ministries were restructured except for the provinces. I would like to hear where we are and whether the restructuring process that took place at that time brought about efficiency in the Public Service. Apart from health personnel and teachers, the rest of the Public Service workers, especially in the offices where the restructuring took place spend most of their time on Face book and WhatsApp. I do not even know whether they are very conversant with the General Orders or conditions of service that apply in the Public Service generally.

Sir, it is high time that the PSMD started conducting the Civil Service Examinations even when a person is being promoted for them to know whether such officers understand the Civil Service or not.

 Mr Chairperson, when the restructuring programme took place, directors in the ministries were affected while those in the provinces were not restructured and as such, we still have Deputy Permanent Sectaries (DPSs), yet in the ministries where we used to have DPSs, there are directors. I wonder why the Government did not extend the restructuring programme to the provinces. I would like to know whether this programme was a success or not. It is important to review certain programmes which are imposed on us, especially the ones by donors, because, sometimes, it is a requirement by the donors that the restructuring process of the Civil Service by the Government is carried out before it can offer anything. I would, therefore, like to know whether the restructuring brought efficiency in the Civil Service or if it has just increased the numbers, hence, most people spend their time on Face book.   

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.


Mr Namulambe: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that the reintroduction of the Civil Service Examinations is important because the examinations will help civil servants make informed decisions and also know about the operations of the Civil Service.

Sir, the PSMD should seriously consider carrying out orientation workshops for newly-appointed civil servants like the District Commissioners (DCs) and the Permanent Secretaries because this will help people understand what the Civil Service is all about.

Mr Chairperson, following the Government’s intention to implement the Decentralisation Policy, it is important that the PSMD finds ways and means to sensitise the civil servants on how decentralisation will work because most people spoken to are not aware of how this policy will be implemented. They do not even know how they will integrate with the local authorities. Therefore, it is important that the PSMD comes up with plans on how to orient all the people in the Public Service on how the Decentralisation Policy will be implemented. Although we understand that the policy is being implemented, the Government is partially doing that because it is not being carried out in all the districts. It is important that the civil servants go through the orientation process.

Sir, I am also aware that the PSMD is responsible for the processing of pensions for the retirees or those that are separating with the Government. It is, therefore, important that these people know when they are supposed to retire. The PSMD should give reminders to the would-be retirees in advance so that they get prepared.
You will agree with me that retirees are a sorry sight. You pity how people look after they leave employment. Despite them receiving a lump sum of their retirement packages, some of them end up misusing it. They become destitute as if they never worked or held senior positions in the Civil Service. So, it is important for the PSMD to take care of retirees so that they do not become destitute. Otherwise, people will shun joining the Civil Service if they keep seeing people becoming destitute after being separated from the Government.

Mr Chairperson, when somebody dies either through illness or road traffic accident, it is important that their separation packages are prepared as quickly as possible. That way, the deceased person’s children will not end up on the streets.

Sir, it is important that the PSMD Vote is supported. In my view, the number of people working for the PSMD is not adequate considering the number of people being dealt with countrywide.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to also mention that the level of discipline in the Civil Service leaves much to be desired. There is late coming and leakages of confidential information by the employees. This is because most of the people who are recruited in the Public Service are not oriented on how the Public Service is supposed to operate. Some of them do not even sign the Oath of Secrecy forms because these forms are not there. When I talk about the Oath of Secrecy, most civil servants do not understand what I mean because they do not know what it is. This is an oath from the State Security Act which compels a person not to divulge confidential information. This information can be concealed for as long as it remains confidential. Even after leaving employment, even if they are fired from the job, a person who signed this oath is not obliged to disclose whatever information they may have come across during the time they worked for the Government.

The other disciplinary issue that I want to talk about is reporting for work late. Late-coming and knocking off early in the Public Service is very rampant. If you go to a Public Service office at 09:00 hours, you will not find the officers in their offices. There are very few offices where people report for work on time and also knock off at the stipulated time. In the Civil Service, some people knock off as early as 15:00 hours, while others knock off at 16:00 hours, yet they are all paid to work for eight hours a day. To those who are in the Public Service and are listening to me right now, I want to say that since you only work for three hours instead of eight hours, why do you not return some of the money that you are paid at the month end?

Mr Chairperson, people must only earn what they work for because getting paid for work which one did not do amounts to theft. You may not know that you are stealing. As Christians, we must always remember that stealing is in many forms, including working less hours, but earning a salary for working more hours. So, let all those people who report for work late be mindful of the fact that the money they are being paid is coming from taxpayers, including commoners who pay tax through Value Added Tax (VAT). They should put in an honest day’s work and not just get money for the sake of earning a salary.

Sir, transferring of civil servants who are facing disciplinary charges is not a solution. You find that most people want to join the Civil Service because there is job security. The lack of discipline and failure to take disciplinary action on time against erring officers has made the Civil Service and the Public Service, in general, inefficient in their operations. So, it is important that the people tasked with the responsibility of drafting disciplinary letters do so as quickly as possible so that people stop viewing the Civil Service as a place where one can go to rest. Most of the people in the Civil Service spend three quarters of their time doing personal things and that is not fair. When certain programmes and projects fail to be implemented, the blame is always placed only on the people who are running the Government and these are the politicians.

Mr Chairperson, it is high time we helped the politicians. Civil servants have a tendency of saying, “You will go and we will remain.” That is true. The politicians will go and you will remain, but what is your contribution? Sometimes, certain people become destitute after retiring because God punishes them for not having done what was expected of them during their time in employment. So, it is important that those responsible for disciplining people do so without fear or favour. Discipline is very cardinal. If a person is not disciplined regarding their approach to work, it means there is no discipline even in his or her home. So, Government employees must be responsible enough and provide services to the people. We need to deliver services and this is basically done by the Public Service workers. So, the Public Service workers must be responsible enough so that they do not fail the people charged with the responsibility to formulate policies. It is important for them to implement the policies and ensure that Zambians see the benefits of the taxes which they pay.

Sir, I repeat that the issues that I have raised should be looked at. The PSMD should also look at what has come out of the restructuring programme. It needs to see if there has been efficiency or not. Apart from the Public Sector Capacity Building Program (PSCAP) vehicles that we used to see, what other benefits have we drawn from this? Has the Government carried out an evaluation of how that programme worked? It is important that we evaluate ourselves to be able to ascertain how we have performed. There is also a need to evaluate the performance of all Public Service employees. I, therefore, support this Vote with a caution that this money that has been allocated to it be used prudently.

Sir, I thank you.

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Chairperson, first of all, I apologise for referring to you as the Hon. Mr Speaker in my policy statement.

I want to thank the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate in support of the budget preposition for the PSMD. I want to thank Hon. Elijah Muchima, who highlighted the factors contributing to the erosion of professionalism in the Civil Service. He pointed out that political interference is one of the culprits of the erosion of professionalism in the Civil Service. He also highlighted the issue of ghost workers and the appointment of District Commissioners (DCs) and the retirement age.

Sir, Hon. Mwiimbu wants to see the Public Service have the face of Zambia. Unfortunately, the hon. Member is not in the House.


The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Chairperson, the women who sell vitumbuwas (fritters) or groundnuts on the streets will be very disappointed to learn that the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central, who is supposed to be their representative, has a low opinion of them.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Chairperson, those women are feeding their children from selling on the streets, but that does not mean that they do not have the wisdom to participate in the governance of their country.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear! Hammer!



The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Chairperson, the hon. Member referred to the concept of the Public Service having a Zambian face. He repeatedly referred to Kenya as the best example of this concept. However, the hon. Member fails to understand that …


The Chairperson: Order, on my right!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: … Kenya was recently engulfed in a tribal conflict between the Kikuyu and Luo tribes. Zambia has never experienced a situation where a conflict has arisen out of tribal affiliations and our Public Service already has a Zambian face. There is not a single department or ministry where you find the dominance of only one tribe.

Mr Muntanga: Question!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: I think we are all represented in the various sectors of governance.

Mr Mwila: Mulefwaya aba Tonga ebo babemo.


The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Namulambe pointed out the lack of efficiency in the Civil Service due to the absence of Civil Service Examinations, orientation and discipline of personnel. There was also mention of the DCs being appointed on political grounds. However, after the DCs are appointed, they follow the Civil Service guidelines issued by the Secretary to the Cabinet. Since the DCs are civil servants, they are following these guidelines.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Question!

Mr Mwila: Ni jealous fye, iwe.


The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: Mr Chairperson, there was also mention of files being lost and misplaced in the Civil Service. This issue is being addressed through the electronic file tracking system, as I highlighted in my policy statement.

Mr Musukwa: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President and Minister of Development Planning: As for ghost workers, the PSMD is working on this issue because the Government is also worried about it. So, staff audits have been intensified and the challenge of ghost workers is becoming a thing of the past.

Mr Chairperson, the retirement age is an issue that has been very hotly debated in this House and out there. As we know, the law has always provided employees with options, even before it was amended. At the moment, employees can opt for the following:

(a)    early retirement at fifty-five years;

(b)    normal retirement at sixty years; and

(c)    late retirement at sixty-five years.

This is working out for a lot of civil servants and they accept it gladly. So, I do not know why it should irritate other people. Of course, we want to make room for the young generation to enter the Civil Service. This is the policy of the Government. Our wish is to improve Zambia’s performance in the Civil Service and ensure that our young generation is part of it in developing our country.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 27/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 27/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 27/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 27/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 27/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 27/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 65 − (Ministry of Higher Education – K7,980,412,362).

The Minister of Higher Education (Dr Kaingu): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for according me the privilege of addressing this august House and present the policy statement upon which the budget for the Ministry of Higher Education for 2016 is premised.

Mr Chairperson, before I proceed with my statement, allow me, on behalf of hon. Members of Parliament from the Opposition political parties serving in this inclusive Government of national unity, to wish His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, a belated happy birthday.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Happy birthday wherever you are, Mr President. We are proud of you …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: … and the people of Zambia are proud of you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: We wish you many more happy returns.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, hon. Members of Parliament will recall that in his maiden speech to this august House as Republican President, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, indicated that the current session was unique for a number of reasons. These included the following:

(a)    this was the final session of the Eleventh National Assembly before the next general election in 2016;

(b)    this session is significant in view of the National Constitutional Amendment Bill to be considered; and

(c)    this is a watershed session which will usher in a new phase of socio-economic transformation for the post Golden Jubilee era.

Mr Chairperson, it is with reference to the socio-economic transformation of our country, the African Union Vision of 2063, Zambia’s Vision 2030 and the Post 2015 Sustainable Development Agenda that my ministry has designed the budget for 2016. In the context of these broad objectives, my ministry has developed policies, strategies and budgets in areas of its mandate and these are fundamental pillars which I will name. These are the following:

(a)    university education;

(b)    skills development through technical education, vocational and entrepreneurship training;

(c)    science, technology and innovation; and

(d)    management and support systems and services.

Mr Chairperson, before I present our plans for 2016 and the budget to support these plans, I wish to review our performance during 2015.

Mr Chairperson, tremendous progress was recorded in the areas of university education, skills development, through our technical education, vocational entrepreneurship training system and in science, technology and innovation. It is on this basis that my ministry intends to build the foundation for 2016.

Mr Chairperson, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government has improved the student intake into the university education system. This has been done through the expansion of the system by introducing new public universities and provision of a conducive environment for the establishment and operation of private universities. During 2015, the establishment of the Higher Education Authority was consolidated, as provided for under the Higher Education Act No. 4 of 2013. Further, the Higher Education Authority has developed regulations and procedures for quality assurance for our university education system. This will set an equal quality platform for the performance of both private and public universities in Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, during 2015, the Zambia Qualification Authority has been operationalised and it is now implementing the Zambia Qualifications Framework, as provided for under the Zambia Qualifications Authority Act No.13 of 2011. The Zambia Qualification Framework will provide a platform for the evaluation of foreign qualifications entering the Zambian market as well as validation of Zambian qualifications under the labour market.

Mr Chairperson, with respect to infrastructure development, my ministry started the construction of students’ hostels at the University of Zambia (UNZA), Copperbelt University, Mulungushi University and the Evelyn Hone College of Applied Arts and Commerce. Further, contracts for the construction of King Lewanika and Luapula universities were also signed and sites handed over to the contractors. The construction works at the other new universities have continued.

Mr Chairperson, in the area of technical education, vocational and entrepreneurship training, my ministry continued with the construction of trades training institutes in various parts of the country, namely:

(a)    Isoka Trades Training Institute;

(b)    Mwense Trades Training Institute;

(c)    Sesheke Trades Training Institute;

(d)    Lundazi Trades Training Institute;

(e)    Kalabo Trades Training Institute;

(f)    Mporokoso Trades Training Institute; and

(g)    Mumbwa Trades Training Institute.

Mr Chairperson, in our effort to enhance the welfare of students and further improve access to technical and vocational skills training, the construction of students’ hostels was underway at Chipata and Ukwimi Trades Training institutes.

Mr Chairperson, during 2015, my ministry introduced a two-tier educational and training system providing a combination of upper secondary academic education and vocational training. These programmes were run at the Chipata, Lukashya and Mansa Trades Training institutes and Ukwimi International College.

Mr Chairperson, during 2015, progress was also recorded in science, technology and innovation. Many joint research activities were undertaken in the context of bilateral science and technology agreements with countries such as South Africa and Mozambique. Locally, commercialisation of technologies and research was enhanced through the equipping of strategic national research facilities in particular, the Government spent over K20 million on the new equipment and facilities for research and development for the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR).

Further, resources were allocated to build capacity and develop a cadre of researchers and scientists. To this effect a total of fourteen scientists will graduate at doctorate and masters degree levels.

Mr Chairperson, the PF Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: … will continue to build on these successes by consolidating the gains registered in 2015 and building upon them for 2016, as directed by his Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia. This challenge will require a mind shift, a positive outlook in addition to hard work.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to now present the context and content of our plans for 2016 and the proposed expenditure for which I will need the support of this august House.

Mr Chairperson, the broad contest of our plans is premised on the following priority objectives:

(a)    the formulation and implementation of policies, systems and mechanisms for university education which produces graduates of the desired numbers and quality who are able to drive the industrial, economic and social development of Zambia.

(b)    the design and delivery of a Technical, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) system which produces skilled Zambians capable of supporting modern industry and equipped with adequate entrepreneurial competencies for wealth creation, generation of employment and self-employment;

(c)    the improvement of our science, technology and innovation (STI) system in order to promote and support research and development capabilities and, which contributes to the search for solutions to the country’ problems;

(d)    the establishment, maintenance and continuous improvement of our quality assurance systems and procedures.

Mr Chairperson, in order to achieve these objectives, my ministry has developed a strategic framework upon which our budget for 2016 is premised. The strategic objectives are:

(a)    to increase access to and promote the efficient and equitable provision of quality tertiary education;

(b)    to increase access and promote the efficient and equitable provision of quality technical education, vocational and entrepreneurship training which is relevant to the skills demands of both the formal and informal labour markets;

(c)    to enhance research and development and strengthen the commercialisation, transfer and diffusion of the STI.

Mr Chairperson, the Government recognises the role that university education; skills development and science and technology and innovation play in the sustainable development for any country’s development agenda. These areas provide the basis for all our efforts at entrepreneurship, wealth creation, generation of employment and overall improvement in the quality of life of our people.
Sir, it is against this background that the financing of this sector in 2016 reflects the importance that this Government attaches to sustainable development, skilled labour and progress and transformational solutions provided through the STI.

Mr Chairperson, the total allocation for the Ministry of Higher Education in 2016 is a colossal sum of K1,155,414,293.

Hon. Opposition Member: Colossal?

Dr Kaingu: Yes.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Out of this amount, K939,723,144, representing 81 per cent, has been allocated to university education while K121,296,339, representing 10 per cent of the ministry’s budget, has been allocated to skills development through TEVET. The STI has been allocated K75,324,787, representing 7 per cent of the budget and, K19,070,023, representing 2 per cent, has gone towards management and other support services of the ministry.

Hon. Muntanga, you are making too much noise.

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue and just ignore him.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.


Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Higher Education

Under university education, my ministry has decided to increase financing to the sector by K95,681,677 from K514,041,467, in 2015, to K609,723,144, in 2016, representing an increase of slightly over 18 per cent in operational funds. It is envisaged that these measures will produce positive results in our universities.

Sir, with regard to student welfare, my ministry has made big …

Dr Kaingu did not speak for a while.

Mr Muntanga: You see?


Dr Kaingu: … strides in establishing the Higher Education Loans and Scholarship System. A total of K301 million has been allocated towards higher education loans.

Dr Kaingu was presented a note from the Deputy Chairperson by the House messenger.

The Deputy Chairperson: It is for the hon. Minister of Finance.


Dr Kaingu: I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: What a pocket!

Dr Kaingu: Further, my Government will continue to support the gains achieved in 2015 through infrastructure development. To this end, the Government has allocated K330,000,000 towards all infrastructure projects in higher education institutions, including:

(a)    the 9,600 bed spaces for university student hostels;

(b)    King Lewanika and Luapula universities in Mongu and Mansa, respectively;

(c)    on-going works at Robert Kapasa Makasa and Paul Mushindo universities as well as the transformation of Chalimbana, Kwame Nkrumah, Mukuba and Palabana universities.

Mr Muntanga: Paul who?

Dr Kaingu: Paul Mushindo.


Dr Kaingu: In order to cushion Government expenditure, all new infrastructure projects, including the construction of new universities, university colleges and TEVET institutions, will be explored under the public-private partnership (PPP) financing strategies in 2016. In this regard, the construction of the three university colleges at Katete, Solwezi and Nalolo will follow this initiative. The Government has already secured financing for the projects from private entities and is also looking to further collaborate with the private sector in the equipping and running some of these universities under properly structured PPP arrangements.

Mr Chairperson, all these efforts will not give the desired results if the sector itself is not properly organised in terms of the legal framework and the regulatory guidelines. In this regard, the Government has re-organised the higher education sector through the establishment of the Higher Education Authority (HEA) in 2016. It has been allocated an additional K3000,001 over its 2015 allocation of K984,075 to allow it fully its operationalise its functions to execute its mandate.


Dr Kaingu: I could repeat that for the sake of the hon. Member.


Dr Kaingu: In the same light, the Zambia Qualification Authority (ZQA), which is the custodian of qualifications at all levels of the education system, has received an allocation of K4.6 million.

Skills Development

Mr Chairperson, studies globally have shown that the vocational skills component of the labour force in rapidly developing and developed countries is over 30 per cent of the total labour force population. This is a pre-requisite to economic development. In Zambia, the skills component of the total labour force is below 16 per cent and this poses numerous challenges for wealth creation and employment. It is for this reason that the Government attaches great importance to skills development and entrepreneurship training.

Sir, in order to increase access to TEVET, the Government has continued with the commitment to construct a trades training institute in each and every district in the country. Further, in its aim to improve welfare, and increase access to skills training, the Government will commence the construction of new student hostels at Choma and Kaoma Trades Training institutes in addition to the on-going construction works at Chipata and Ukwimi Trades Training institutes. To achieve all this, the ministry has allocated K50,000,000 to infrastructure development in this sector.

Sir, the Government has also provided K10,000,000 to TEVET student bursaries for vulnerable students in skill strategic focus areas.

Science, Technology and Innovation

Mr Chairperson, science, technology and innovation is the bedrock of technological advancement and economic development. The products we use are the outcome of innovation, technology and entrepreneurship. It is therefore necessary to focus on science, technology and innovation in our efforts at industrial development. It is my ministry’s intention to make science, technology and innovation the key driver to economic prosperity and the attainment of our ...


Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, may I be protected? I cannot continue like this.

The Chairperson: Order!

Ignore the hecklers.

Dr Kaingu: They are not heckling. They are making noise, honestly.

The Chairperson: Order!

I said that you should ignore them. Just continue.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, it is my ministry’s intention to make science, technology and innovation, the key driver of economy prosperity and the attainment of our post-2015 Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) as well as the African Vision for 2063.

Sir, in 2016, the Government will focus on fostering transformation through value-addition and diversification using new and appropriate technology in order to create a smart Zambia. In this regard, in addition to the K20 million spent on equipment for the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR) in 2015, my ministry intends to build on this effort in 2016, by equipping the National Remote Sensing Centre (NRSC) with state-of-the-art earth observation equipment. A total of K15 million has been allocated towards this noble cause. In our drive towards improving equipment and facilities for research in our national science, technology and innovation institutions, the Government has allocated K3 million to the Strategic Research Fund to finance research in areas of national strategic interest. My ministry will prioritise the commercialisation of research and development products through the National Technology Business Centre (NTBC), and has allocated K4 million to improve infrastructure for this initiative. In our continued efforts to ensure the safe application and utilisation of science and technology, my ministry has allocated an additional K3 million to the National Bio safety Authority to enable it become fully operational and implement its regulatory mandate.

Mr Chairperson, it is our intention to harness science, technology and innovation systems to be the hub and creator of new knowledge and new products. To this end, the Government, in 2016, will start the construction of the Science Complex to accommodate all research and development institutions. This will be developed further into a National Science and Technology Park, which will demonstrate our achievements in science, technology and innovation. The Ministry of Higher Education also wishes to promote research into local problems. To this end, the NISIR plans to establish a Fisheries Research Centre in Luapula Province, and a Minerals Research Centre in the North-Western Province. In 2016, my ministry has allocated K10 million to these activities, increasing the portfolio by K1.5 million over the 2015 provision.

Sir, as I conclude my address to this August House, it is important that we remind ourselves of the watershed period in history that we have reached. We need to reflect strongly on the imperative of change of mindset necessary to transform this country and move it forward as directed by His Excellency the President. We also need to recognise the challenges facing our country so as to stand a chance of overcoming them and emerging triumphant in post-golden jubilee era. The Ministry of Higher Education intends to play its role in this initiative through quality and sustainable university education, skills development, and science, technology and innovation. Our budget for 2016 is but one small step in this direction.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate, and I would also like to thank the hon. Minister for that policy statement.

Sir, my support for the budget of the Ministry of Higher Education will focus on what I would call a conversation on the policy direction of higher education in our country. I think it is very important at this point for us to challenge ourselves as a nation, in terms of the nature and state of higher education system. If you look at the global higher education systems debate, you will notice that it is focused on how to achieve a higher education system that is focused on results deliver ability and accountability. Higher education systems globally are now being called upon to be results-oriented in their operation.

Mr Speaker, this can only be achieved when the leadership in both the higher education institutions and the Government is creative, visionary and committed to the transformation and reform of higher education. Those in higher education institutions have to live up to the expectations of upgrading their skills of management, decentralisation and having autonomy in decision making. This is the conversation going on at the global level, in terms of higher education. These are the strategic factors of reform and transformation of higher education. At the moment, the most critical aspect of higher education is its leadership and management. If you read the literature on this aspect seriously, you will discover that the leadership and management of higher education is critical to the success and reform of higher education.

The transformation of the higher education system demands that leadership, in both the Government and institutions of higher education, be visionary, have ability and adaptability and able to change management skills. This is what we discern or tease out of the higher education debate, globally.

Mr Chairperson, amongst our neighbouring countries, Mozambique and Ethiopia are very good examples of higher education transformation and reform on the African Continent. Why is leadership, both within the institutions and at systems level, important in higher education development? The success of socio-economic policies and strategies in our country and elsewhere depend on a strong re-oriented and revitalised human resource. Without the, we cannot expect to see development in our countries. No matter how sound or good our economic policies or plans might be, we cannot go anywhere with a human resource lacking higher education training.

To a large extent, Sir, the overall development of any country depends on what happens in higher education. Economic policies, programmes and initiatives of both the private sector and the Government itself are anchored on what happens in higher education. This is why attention to the state and nature of higher education is very important. The bottom line for macro-economic policies that centre on the private sector, economic development, free market or the application of information and communication technology (ICT) in our development efforts as well as private sector investments depends on what happens in our higher education system.

Mr Chairperson, the biggest problem we have, at the moment, is that we do not know higher education well enough.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: We do not know it well enough. We do not know what is happening in the area of research in our higher institutions of learning. We do not know the innovation, creativity and imagination that is taking place in our higher institutions of learning.

Mr Mufalali: Uhmmm!

Prof. Lungwangwa: We do not even know the management efficiency and effectiveness of our higher education institutions.

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Neither are we very clear about the financing …

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … predicaments of our higher education institutions.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: There are a lot of cost-sharing and income-generating activities going on in our higher education institutions, especially universities, but we do not know much about them. Further, we do not even have sufficient data on access and equity to higher education institutions. For instance, we do not know how our universities are serving the underserved regions of our country.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, in the programmes of our higher education system, we do not know the extent to which our women and girls are participating. To a large extent, we are managing a system that we know very little about.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: This is the challenge. I think that this should be the starting point for us in order to have a meaningful reform and transformation of our higher education system. Of course, we expect that the hon. Minister of Higher Education will sit and seriously reflect on these different parameters governing our higher education system so that it can be properly channeled or re-directed in order for it to eventually contribute to our national development aspirations. This, I think, is the task that the Ministry of Higher Education has, as it faces the challenge of developing a re-oriented higher education system in our country.

Mr Chairperson, we also have to understand, for instance, the pedagogy within …

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: …the higher education system, ...


Mr L.J. Ngoma: Chizungu ico!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … curriculum reform and relevance in higher education.

Sir, with a bit of confidence, I can say that the Ministry of Higher Education knows very little about the pedagogy in the universities.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Question!

Mr Muntanga: Very little.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Very little, yet it is the responsibility of the ministry to carryout academic audits from time-to-time so that universities and other institutions of higher learning are able to respond to the signaling effect that the ministry is supposed demonstrate to the institutions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: This is critical.

Mr Chairperson, the whole challenge of the proliferation of private universities ...

Mr Mufalali: These are real professors.

Mr L.J. Ngoma: Chizungu ico!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … in our country is a danger to our development …

Mr Masumba: Correct!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … because, ultimately, we will find people coming out of private universities with certificates whose value is only for credentials ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: …and nothing substantive behind it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: We have situations in our country, at the moment, where a man and woman, as a family, establish a university in their backyard.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: What kind of situation is that? We hope that the Higher Education Authority will be able to critically look at the danger this poses to our midst, as a nation, ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … and close some of these institutions which have no value to this country. You cannot get a Doctorate of Philosophy (PhD) from some these institutions …

Mr Muntanga: Mancosa!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … that claim to offer PhD programmes. Some of us have supervised PhD students. We have examined PhD theses and we know what it takes to get a PhD.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Most of these universities do not even have the qualified personnel to be able to provide PhDs. They simply cannot. So, what kind of institutions are they? These are a danger to our development. I think that we must be honest enough and close them down because they are of no value to the future of our country.

Go to Kenya and see what has been done. The Higher Education Authority in Kenya, which I visited in 1998, is very vibrant. I know what it is doing to make sure that higher education is protected from those who are using it as an avenue for income generation. This is not how higher education should be perceived.

Mr Chairperson, if you follow the history of higher education, you will see that the establishment of a university, in the European context, took a long time. An institution had to undergo an intense process of evaluation before it could be called a university. Once an institution has been called a university, it is given a charter and that is why most of these old universities carry a plaque which bears the year in which they were charted. The chartering of a university is a big occasion because that institution has now been recognised to have achieved the status of a university.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: That is how things should be, as opposed to what is happening in our country at the moment. I hope that this conversation, which I believe can continue with my young brother, the hon. Minister of Higher Education, can be carried forward because it is for the good of the country and the generations to come. I hope we are now laying the foundation for the improvement of an effective, efficient, equitable, relevant and quality higher education in our country.

I thank you, Sir,

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Chairperson, I support the Vote on Higher Education.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Although the hon. Minister talked about a huge budget, ...

Mr Mufalali: Imagine.

Mr Muntanga: ... I was surprised that he talked about this ‘colossal Budget’, as he put it.

Dr Chituwo: Colossal.

Mr Muntanga: I was wondering whether this hon. Doctor understands the difference between a colossal budget and a budget that has fallen short of what his ministry requires.

Sir, first of all, even when you combine the budgets for the Ministry of General Education and that of the Ministry of Higher Education, we have not met the amount that is supposed to be given to the education sector. I need the hon. Minister to understand that we support this budget, but there is not enough money.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister made an address when he took up his position under the ministry and stated that to possess a degree, doctorate degree or professoriate degree is not enough to run the Ministry of Education.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: He went on to say that having a doctorate degree does not necessarily mean that you qualify to manage the education sector. I looked at Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa’s face, then, at face of the other doctor, who is seated next to him, and wondered what the two missed. There is also another professor and doctor in the House.  

Prof. Luo: On a point of order, Sir.


Mr Muntanga: All I wanted was for the hon. Minister to listen to his young brother. Who is younger between the two? Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa said he is older, but I think the hon. Minister is the elder brother. I will check you both.


Mr Muntanga: The hon. Minister should listen to Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa because he means well.

Sir, the Ministry of Higher Education needs to ensure that these universities that are being formed qualify to be called as such. I am not even sure how many universities there are because some are in the backyard of individuals’ homes. The other day, I was told that there is Copper Stone University amongst many others.


Mr Muntanga: We will have these universities that are not monitored by the ministry producing people with doctorate degrees. I want to urge the Ministry of Higher Education to intensify its inspection of these institutions. Very soon, we will have scholars who can hardly present themselves properly. They will hardly articulate issues, yet they will be doctors. So, I want the hon. Minister to ensure that his ministry carries out that job of inspection.

Mr Chairperson, the Department of Vocational Training should go back to the time when it was very strict. We had the Zambian Institute of Technology (ZIT) and the Northern Technical College (NORTEC) which produced quality students and contributed to industry in Zambia. However, we are producing students in vocational training who cannot perform these days. How can someone who comes from an engineering institution fail to repair an engine for which he was trained to do?

Mr Mufalali: Or a wheelbarrow.

Mr Muntanga: I am told they even fail to repair wheelbarrows.


Mr Muntanga: These engineers that we are training through vocational training schools should come out well-taught.

Sir, this subject that we are discussing is very important. The Ministry of Higher Education should monitor institutions like agricultural colleges such as the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC), the Zambia College of Agriculture in Mpika and Monze and all others. The people that are being produced by the institutions do not show that they have been trained at all. The knowledge one has acquired should be seen in their output. Your contribution towards the development of Zambia should be seen. It should show that you have been trained for a job.

Mr Chairperson, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, who is the former Vice-Chancellor of the University of Zambia (UNZA), was using words befitting a professor.


Mr Muntanga: I believe that Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa did not have enough time to do the things that he is telling the hon. Minister to do.

Mr Kasandwe: He had an opportunity.

Mr Pande: Aleisa kaili.

Mr Muntanga: We shall make use of this man when we come into power because he has gained experience ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: When are you coming into power?

Mr Muntanga: When you are removed.

Mr Mwila: No!

The Chairperson: Order!

Why are you engaging him?

Mr Muntanga: Whether you ask me questions or not, you will not believe that you can be taken out until you come out so I am not worried about that.


Mr Mwila: On a point of order.

The Chairperson: No.

Mr Muntanga: It is important that the hon. Minister of Higher Education listens. My age mate, I want you to know that the job you have been given should enable you to make sure that the building of hostels at UNZA does not take ten years. We have been hearing unending stories about the hostels at UNZA. The university has even put up walls now because it does not want people to see the inside. When will the construction of hostels be completed? We cannot take pride in the fact that we are building hostels whose construction does not come to an end.

Mr Chairperson, I also want to appeal that we plan well. We have two universities in some district somewhere. I think to myself how we will take professors to lectures to lecture at those universities in the village.


Mr Muntanga: Let us be careful because one university is enough of a problem. Two will be a worse off problem.

Sir, the Copperbelt University has problems because lecturers want to take on extra jobs elsewhere, yet they are few as it is. What will happen when we open up two more adjacent universities? I have seen that we will have problems even at the two adjacent universities that are being built in Lusaka East. We all know that we do not even have enough lecturers at the UNZA. I want to urge the Government to cater for lectures as it plans to open up universities. It is a problem to have universities that have insufficient lecturers because they will end up producing half-baked graduates there.

Sir, it is not just a matter of being called a doctor or a professor, but the output. We want to see the results. We want to see the substance of what you can produce. If you are professor in education, it must be seen. If you are a professor, we must know what field you are specialised in.


Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, if you are a doctor, we must see what you are worth.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, some people call themselves doctors even when their output is very bad. Why is it so? They are making the education sector a laughing stock. As a result, people fail to see the need for education. Someone can be a doctor in music, mosquitoes …


Mr Muntanga: … or other fields. One must not just be a doctor, but also know what is required under the management of higher education.

 Mr Chairperson, the Ministry of Higher Education is important. We should, therefore, make sure that the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) is rebuilt and properly supervised. Money should be allocated to this unit. If those technicians in our manufacturing industry are not taken care of, then, we will have a problem in growing our economy in this country. Investors come with their own drivers to work in their construction industry because we do not train our people well. You will find that a foreign contractor brings in expatriates to push wheel barrows. Why should that be so? Let us train our people properly so that their worth may be known. I think the qualifications of politicians in the Constitution should be improved so that they also have a proper understanding of issues.

Mr Mutelo: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I think it is important to understand issues. If someone who is in-charge of a certain ministry does not understand anything under it, then, that becomes unfair in as far as the economic growth of Zambia. Even a police officer must be fully trained so that he or she can handle matters properly. It is not just a question of the Ministry of Home Affairs arresting people when police officers are not trained.


Mr Muntanga: Sir, this all falls under vocational training. Police officers must be trained otherwise, they will become robots. We want to have people that can work. This insecurity we see in people holding offices is because they are not sure of themselves.

Mr Shuma: Mwila, arrest him.

Mr Muntanga: He will not manage to arrest me. In the first place, he does not even know what case to charge me with.


Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I want my brother, Hon. Dr Kaingu, to make sure that all the training institutions produce properly trained people. I have cited an example of the police.

Sir, maybe the problem with higher education is that the person who has been put in charge of it does not understand it.

Mrs Mulasikwanda: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.


Mr Muntanga: Which college do you come from?


Mrs Mulasikwanda: From Chainama College of Health Sciences.

Mr Pande: Raise your point of order.

Mrs Mulasikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I stand to raise a very serious point of order. Is the Member for Kalomo Central, Hon. Muntanga, who has been debating very well in order to bring drama to this House such that we have even lost all the points we were picking from his debate?

 I seek your serious ruling, Sir.


The Chairperson: Order!

There is no ruling on that point of order.


The Chairperson: Hon. Muntanga, you may continue.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I will reduce the level of my debate so that I accommodate everybody.


Mr Muntanga: Sir, in this case, I did not want the issue of higher education to be left at Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa’s level because it will be difficult for us to interpret this to some of our friends.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I appreciate that in this drama, people must understand that it is important to make sure that higher education is taken care of and that serious supervision of learning institutions is done. I am very grateful for having been given a chance to enable the hon. Member for Mulobezi to understand this issue very well.


Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, at Chainama College of Health Sciences, they do train mad people, but the people who look after them.


Mr Muntanga: Sir, therefore, they must be taken care of by this Government so that we have properly trained officers at that institution.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Chairperson, I thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to add my voice to the debate on this very important ministry, which is the Ministry of Higher Education. In the first place, I will take my neighbour’s debate, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, as my very own as he expressed his sentiments with regard to the quality of higher education. On that point, I want to add that the quality of higher education in our set up is not necessarily an area of concern for only private universities, but also, unfortunately, time has come to converse around the issue of public universities that are underfunded, whose lectureship is de-motivated and does not seem to be really answerable respective management. I want to say that our public universities seem to depend solely on grants from the Government, yet I am aware that there are a lot of research projects that attract a lot of money. The question is: How accountable are these researchers in these schools to the central management?

Mr Chairperson, there is a lot that needs to be done in terms of accountability by our researchers in these universities. I have mentioned accountability in the sense that not only do they spend time on these projects, but also in terms of whatever resources they get. Surely, there must something that is surrendered to the central administration so that it goes into the proper functioning of the various schools. I hope the hon. Minister takes note of that.

Sir, the hon. Minister in his statement talked about the commitment to the higher education system. Well, I wonder how the quality of the output of the graduates from these universities is.
If there is no firm foundation at general education level and most of our young people are unable to even write an application letter properly, let alone read, how then, is it possible for the hon. Minister to even state that the Government is committed to providing quality education at higher education level? It becomes very difficult, if not almost impossible. The output from there cannot meaningfully contribute to our socio-economic development.

Sir, I note wastage of resources in the construction of two universities in one district, especially during this period when the Government is so cash-strapped. Why not put at bay the construction of some these universities as the systems are built and resources ploughed back into the area of research, which is really neglected, to find out, as Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa said, what is actually happening in our education system so that the decisions that we make are based on data which we collect.

Mr Chairperson, I want to comment on the colossal K7,980,412,362 which has been allocated to the ministry. I am amazed because the hon. Minister said that he was happy with this amount of money and called it colossal,

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: … yet this ministry needs three times more money. Our public institutions are dilapidated and the laboratories are almost non-existent.

Ms Lubezhi: Correct.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: How, then, will they promote science and technology at higher institutions of learning?

Sir, a few of the Technical Education Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) colleges have been renovated, but most of them still harbour obsolete equipment with which our young people are being trained. You cannot find this obsolete equipment in offices and industries. That is a waste of money. Therefore, more money should have been allocated to this ministry and, perhaps, because of our economic situation, some of the university populist constructions should be put on hold. The Government should explain to the people that it will hold on until it has enough money to construct six or ten universities at the same time. Also, when a university is built, it should be done in a holistic manner, from human resource, equipment and there must be vision of what the university should focus on. The Government is currently spreading its resources so thinly that in the end, there will be nothing to talk about in terms of contributing to our socio-economic development.

Mr Chairperson, let me comment on the area of skills training and development. The hon. Minister stated that, in Zambia, the contribution from this area is less than 16 per cent. In fact, I would suggest that if the money saved from putting on hold the construction of some of these prestigious universities was spent on skills training for the young people, it would be money well invested.

Ms Lubezhi: Correct.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Sir, these men and women who will not only feed into industries that whether we like it or not are bound to grow and flourish, but will also possess entrepreneurial skills and employ others. In this country, there are so many construction works going on, but when one engages some of these young people as plumbers or bricklayers, their workmanship is appalling. So, the Government must concentrate on this area. I can see my colleague, Hon. Dr Kaingu, is not even paying attention. I am trying to help him.

Dr Kaingu: You are speaking trash.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Oh, I am speaking trash? You see, Mr Chairperson, …

The Chairperson: Order!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: I am sorry, Mr Chairperson. I will ignore him. All I am saying is that when one employs young men and women trained in carpentry and bricklaying from across our border, the work they do is satisfactory. So, we must examine our education system otherwise nobody else will tell us.

Sir, I note that some money has been allocated to Choma and Kaoma Trades Training institutes. On what basis can we develop the issue of science and technology if most of our secondary schools that provide general education do not have laboratories? We must develop the pupils’ interest in science and technology at that level so that as they go into higher education, they can appreciate its benefit not only at personal level, but also …


The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kampyongo: It is the hon. UPND Members.

The Chairperson: No, you were also making noise.


Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Chairperson, I am very passionate about skills training because I know its benefit at individual, community and national levels. So, more money should have been allocated to this ministry and the hon. Minister should have invested some of it in this area.

Sir, I also want to talk about research. Research is not very attractive because apparently, we want to see results there and then. Unfortunately, social science research or any other scientific research takes a long time to yield results. However, consistent investment in this field ultimately pays because once there is a break through, a nation cannot look back. Therefore, as has been stated by my colleagues, the hon. Minister should ensure that the researchers invest in enquiring into issues that affect our communities. There are a lot of socio-economic issues that need to be researched on to find out how they can be dealt with and, ultimately, improve the lives of our people.

Mr Chairperson, lastly, I want to talk about the Bio-Safety Centre. The population is growing and there is pressure on us to feed it. However, there are still questions in terms of how safe the genetically-modified organisms (GMO) are and their effect on the environment. K3 million has been allocated to this centre but in my view, more money should have been allocated to it. Research must also be conducted in the bio-safety area at province level. With this proliferation of seed companies, how sure are we that they are not developing GMOs? Why are we not researching indigenous seeds? For instance, we have gankata, a hard grain maize seed type, which grows with very little fertiliser. Can we not research on that so that we can empower our small holder farmers to not be dependent on the high breed that they need to buy each year?

Mr Chairperson, the hope for our nation lies in science, technology and innovation. However, in order for that to happen, we must strategically invest in those institutions that promote these areas. Otherwise, it will be business as usual and at the end of the day, we would not have achieved much for the future generations.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, in supporting the Vote for the Ministry of Higher Education, I would like to channel my debate on one issue which the ministry needs to revisit and strategically think about it.

Sir, the Higher Education Act was well considered by this House. Amongst the many issues that were contained in the Act were the affiliations by different categories of people in the education sector. In this case, I would like to refer to the affiliation of all institutions that channel out primary school teachers. The Act provided that all the institutions that train primary school teachers in Zambia should be affiliated to the University of Zambia (UNZA). It is from that point of view that I would like to connect my debate to the Ministry of Higher Education, which is responsible for institutions like UNZA.

Sir, the provision in the Act gave quality assurance in the sense that the graduates for the primary teacher education had to go through a channel that is worth the test. We had primary school teacher graduates with certificates bearing the logo of UNZA. The primary school teacher graduates had the esteem because their certificates had the integrity of being associated to UNZA. What that meant was that primary school teachers could not run away from primary school teaching to go for further training and later on became secondary school teachers and, therefore, leaving a very wide gap at our primary school level of education.

Sir, UNZA provided capacity building for primary school teachers. The other advantage that we had with that system was that if a primary school teacher got a distinction, he or she was allowed to pursue a degree programme at UNZA for primary school teaching, which was adding value in the chain of education in Zambia. The institutions which were affiliated to UNZA had an advantage to progress to become universities in future.

Sir, we all agree that ...

Prof. Luo interjected.

Mr Mtolo: Sir, may I be protected from Hon. Prof. Nkandu Luo.


Mr Mtolo: … if one has a degree and is a primary school teacher, he or she has the capacity, integrity and such a person would fit in when interacting with others. For example, when Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa and Hon. Prof. Luo interact, they understand each other because they are at the same level. However, if you have a primary school teacher with just a certificate or a diploma and he/she is among his/her colleagues who have degrees, that person is bound to feel inferior. Therefore, the idea was well thought out.

Sir, I was giving this background because not long ago, the Ministry of Higher Education did away with this situation without recourse to this House which passed that Act. The affiliation was shifted to the Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ). I am not talking about the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) which hon. members are used to, but the Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ). I wonder if this was a researched decision.

Mr Chairperson, this Act has, therefore, taken us back where we were in the sense that the primary school teacher has no room for progression and has lost the integrity. What we did not want to see is what is recurring. they been taken just to what we did not imagine will happen again. One wonders why this decision was made. As we support the split in the Ministry of Education, being one of those who supported it, we ought to stick to those things which work. Let us not go back and reverse issues because the issue of having primary school training institutions affiliated to the ECZ will merely put us in reverse gear.

Sir, you will agree with me that, at the moment, the ECZ has a problem in managing primary and secondary school leavers examination because of the leakages and all sorts of things. Why should we dump our primary school institutions on the ECZ because this is an examination body? Primary school institutions must be affiliated to UNZA, which is an educational institution and not the ECZ. I wonder what exactly we are doing.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: It is a disaster.

 Mr Mtolo: Sir, during the debates, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa referred to the fact that we should allow institutions such as UNZA to raise money. UNZA was raising some money through these affiliations, but the money has been shifted to the ECZ. This is a serious issue that all private school institutions have been threatened with deregistration if they do not to affiliate to the ECZ. Really, what are we doing to ourselves? I would like the hon. Minister to revisit this issue and seriously look at the consequences of what we are doing.

Sir, the Government spent a lot of money to have different institutions affiliated to UNZA. This House also spent time to debate that issue. So, how could we reverse it just like that? If anything, this is an Act which is not be reversed without being brought to this House where it was passed. This is a serious issue which I am deliberately and continuously talking about so that the people of Zambia and hon. Members of Parliament can know that is what has happened so that we can push for a change as regard this issue.

Mr Chairperson, as I conclude, I would like to urge the hon. Minister to revisit, in a practical fashion, the status quo and allow that primary schools and college institutions be affiliated to UNZA because that is what will ensure quality training of primary school teachers and give them that morale to progress with their education.

Sir, finally, I would like to touch on an issue which was very elucidated by Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa that the ministry should work on the linkage between higher education and the industry. It is important that the students that we channel out to higher education institutions are linked to the industry. There should be a continuous process of interaction. As it is now, I do not think that we have the facility. The consequence is exactly what has been mentioned to us. When we look at the skilled authority, what we are channeling out is less than 16 per cent. This is a source of concern and this is because the Lusaka Trades, UNZA and the Natural Resource Development College (NRDC), although this is a bit of an exception, are not linked to what is happening and what is needed in this country.  

Sir, with those few remarks, I thank you and I support the Vote.

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.     


Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, education standards should not only apply to higher education, but also the foundation of early education. For now, what is being taught to pupils in Grades 1, ...


The Chairperson: Order, on my right.

Mr Mutelo: ... 7,9,12 is different from what is taught does not form a firm foundation. If the foundation for lower education is not solid, then higher education will not be firm. Owing to the broken down system, it is no wonder we have people who are not able to write an application letter properly.

Sir, allow me to congratulate and thank the Government for awarding bursary schemes to some deserving pupils. I am a witness of, at least, four boys and girls from Chavuma, Mitete, Lukulu and many other rural places being awarded bursaries. It is a good thing that our children were awarded bursaries to study at the university, but I am concerned about them, especially when I see a shopping mall at close proximity with the university.

Mr Chairperson, these children will be in class for an hour and the next hour or so, they will be at the shopping mall. The university is not as silent as it should be because of it being next to a shopping mall. If you go to some universities outside Zambia, you will see that there is total silence in those learning institutions. However, if you go to the University of Zambia (UNZA), the story is different and the learning is being compromised. That is why in the olden days, learning institutions were isolated and located away from places that were a hive of activity. However, we now live in a global village and that is problematic. You have a situation whereby a student is in a lecture room and an hour later, that person is in a drinking place.


The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, hold on. I think that the hon. Members on my right are not listening. We are discussing the Budget and so, we should all be very attentive. We can consult, provided that consultation is done in acceptable parameters so that the person debating can be heard.

Hon. Mutelo, you may continue.

Mr Mutelo: Sir, we have compromised our learning institutions. I am afraid that when the going gets tough, our children, especially those from rural places, are falling into traps. In life, some people have to go through difficulties for them to achieve something. Today, when our children, especially those from the rural places, have no lunch, they are forced to engage in certain bad vices and so they end up compromising their education. Those who came to UNZA when it was first established were the cream of the university. Those students who came to school with one purpose, to get an education, were the cream. Today, going to the university and getting a degree is a quick process.

Sir, much as I was commending the Government for having awarded children from rural areas with bursaries, I also want to urge it to put in place measures that will protect children whose way of living may change after coming to urban areas for the first time and being exposed to life in the city. Those who came to the university and achieved their goal of getting an education had traditional principles like hard work and discipline, which helped them to complete their education. Those are the people who are helping today. I am afraid that if these children do not come to the university with the values that I have talked about, then, they will lose track and not get an education.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Children receive counsel in the village before going to university. Those who follow these teachings complete their university education and become somebody in life.

Mr Chairperson, if you go to any university, including the University of Lusaka (UNILUS), you will find most students learning while standing. I do not whether this is because there are more students than the initial capacity that the lecture rooms where designed for. In addition, the accommodation at these universities is inadequate. Students have resorted to renting in areas like Kalingalinga. This is because some students think they are old enough to look after themselves and know why they are going to school. However, it is like they do not really know why they at the university because most of them are failing to complete their studies. So, we need to help a lot of these students, especially those from rural areas.  

Sir, we have heard so much about the university to be constructed in the Western Province, Kwa Haye. We heard that the groundbreaking took place, but there was no money to start the project. Therefore, I am appealing to bo Minister that we want to see the commencement of the construction of the university in Bulozi. Maybe, there is a need to carry out another feasibility study before anything can start.


Mr Mutelo: However, the bottom line is that we have heard enough about this project. Thank you very much, but we would like to see the works actually starting.


Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I am not against universities without walls, such as those that have been set up in the backyards of some homes. However, we need to maintain high standards and achieve the intended results of tertiary education. It is now common for pupils who get distinctions at Grade 12, the famous six points, to fail to do natural sciences at the university. They want to change courses after one week of doing natural sciences. What is the problem? We need to encourage our young men and women to take up science studies, which are deemed to be difficult, so that they can help build this country. If we allow the prevailing situation to continue, we will have a nation full of graduates whose education is just on paper and without substance.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: I concur with my brother, Hon. Mtolo, whose name sounds like mine, that we need to narrow the gaps in salaries for teachers in the various levels of our education system. What is now happening is that every primary school teacher does not want to go back to teaching the early grades after getting a degree in education. Those with bachelors or masters degrees can only be encouraged to teach in primary schools if they are well paid. Who says you cannot be a primary school teacher when you have a master’s degree? What I know is that even if you were dog handler, you would still handle dogs if you attained a degree or masters degree in this field. We have a situation where people want to be lecturers after acquiring degrees. Those who possess certificates feel inferior to those who possess degrees without substance.


Mr Mutelo: Sir, if we do not narrow the remuneration gaps of teachers and lecturers, we are killing the nation. We can only ensure that our children have a firm educational foundation if we retain teachers at primary school level who have high qualifications through paying them well. I repeat that if we will concentrate only on the higher education sector and forget the foundation, we will build a broken society.

Mr Mufalali: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: Where I come from, we make ‘Cray’ pots. If the ‘Cray’ used to make the pot …

Hon. Government Members: It is clay.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo: … is not properly handled, the pot will have cracks when it dries up and will be of no use. Similarly, the foundation of our education system, which is pre-school and Grade 1, should have degree holders so that our children are properly molded.  

Sir, we need to maintain order and ensure that there is no noise at learning institutions. You cannot …

Mr Mutelo’s time expired.

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mutelo: Thank you, Sir.


The Chairperson: Let us take care of our clay pots.


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Chairperson, I definitely support the clay pot theory. It is very necessary that the clay pots, our primary school children, are handled carefully because they are very fragile. If we fail them at the foundation stage, then, their future is bleak. Therefore, it is important to understand that general and higher education are interrelated. This is exactly what my colleague was trying to say. Higher education needs to build on the foundation that is laid at the general education level so that we have quality graduates. Without that, no matter what we do at higher level, we will never have quality graduates.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to support the Vote under discussion this afternoon. Let me begin by saying that I seriously support the split in the Ministry of Education that was instituted recently. It was long overdue and gives us an opportunity to focus on general education in a different way compared to higher education.

Mr Chairperson, I find it a bit difficult …


Mr Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members, the three of you there …

Mr Mufalali: Nkandu Luo.

The Chairperson: Professor and the other two, ba Chilangwa, please, let us keep our voices down. Let us listen to what the hon. Member is saying.

Mr Muntanga: Professor a noise maker.

The Chairperson: May the hon. Member debating continue.

Mr Lufuma: In Zambia, we seem to have misplaced priorities in the higher education sector. Mr Chairperson, you note that most economies that have developed have emphasised on the technical side as compared to the art and administration within the higher education sector because it is the technical side like builders, artisans and plumbers who drive the economy. Most countries that have emphasised on technical cadre have seen development whereas in Zambia, we tend to emphasise more on paper such as administrative certificates. As I said last time, we seem to concentrate on lawyers, economists, sociologists and social workers, among others. Yes, these jobs are necessary, but they are not a sufficient input to making and driving the economy, and so, we must make this distinction.

Mr Chairperson, we can make this distinction in the manner in which we invest in the education sector. So, if we invest heavily into education and allow administrative and support courses, what will happen is that we shall eventually support these graduates with arts and administrative qualifications, but what will they be supporting? There will be no industry to support. We have to build industry first and then support graduates later. This emphasis is missing and I think that it is necessary that we introduce technical courses in our higher education system.

Mr Chairperson, the value of education is in its relevance to industry and economy. So, let us take, for example, our mines in the North-Western Province, there is a need and they have been requesting to recruit the necessary technical staff even at machinery operation level. Machine operators are not there. How do you, then, expect to up production in those mines in order for you to export and get the necessary revenue to drive this economy? You cannot. In the end, you start importing our Chinese colleagues to work in the mines. Those are now the ones who are taking up the jobs that the Zambian people are suppose to take up. In the end, we dream up figures in terms of employment, but those are only dreams. We do not have the people to take up these jobs. If we had, the Patriotic Front (PF) would now be boasting in reality and not imagination that it is actually improving …

Mr Sing’ombe: Hammer!

Mr Lufuma: … the employment situation in the country.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to talk on the proliferation of private universities in this country. The proliferation of private universities in this country hinges on the quality of our education system. Everybody who spoke before me has complained or has spoken about the poor quality of education in this country. This is the poor quality at higher education or degree level of education. A graduate is a product of a university. So, the quality of the university determines the quality of the graduate.

Mr Sing’ombe: Yes!

Mr Lufuma: That quality of the university cannot come from a graduate, no. It has to come from the Government. The Government must be put in place systems to ensure that there are quality universities being established. This is not the case in Zambia. Just next door to where I live, I have a university at a house and students are trooping there thinking they are getting an education. They are not, yet we have the higher education whatever − Education Regulation Authority. This Higher Education Regulation Authority has done nothing at all. It is there by name only. It has to start working.

Mr Chairperson, what should essentially be done is that each university needs to have proper infrastructure as one of the conditions to be met. It has to have adequate lecturers with adequate qualifications. A university has to have accommodation, library facilities and other necessary facilities that go into making a quality university. Do we do that in Zambia? The answer is no. Hon. Minister, this is a task that must be undertaken by you, as a Government. Unless we improve the quality of these institutions, we should not expect quality graduates and, therefore, we should not expect quality development. It simply follows because education is a backbone to national development. Unless we have proper education, we cannot progress as a nation. We will remain in the doldrums.

Mr Chairperson, if you looked at our own university, the University of Zambia (UNZA), which was established in, I think, 1964 …

Mr Sing’ombe: 1966

Mr Lufuma: … in 1966, there has been very little development in terms of quality infrastructure development …

Ms Kansembe: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Kansembe: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order.

Mr Pande: You have never raised a point of order.

Ms Kansembe: You know I rarely rise on a point of order.


Ms Kansembe: Is the Secretary-General of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Party, Hon. Mbulakulima, in order to sit comfortably in this House when all his Members here (pointing at the empty Opposition Members seats) have fled from their Constitutional function in this House?


Ms Kansembe: I need your serious ruling, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


The Chairperson: Well, I think that that is a very important point of order. We should all be here to take part in the discussions. However, I see some of the hon. Members around.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: We have a quorum, but that notwithstanding, all people …

Mr Livune: Some are that side, Sir (pointing at the Government Bench).


The Chairperson: Hon. Lufuma, can you continue with your debate.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I was talking about UNZA. Since 1967, the various Governments that have been in power, to date, …

Mr Muntanga: Even the Chair has been in Government.

Mr Lufuma: … have not invested adequately in this university. As a result, there is inadequate infrastructure at the university. The infrastructure at UNZA is dilapidated and in a deplorable state. State-of-the-art information and communication technology (ICT), the library and the facilities that are required as an input into a quality education facility are not there at UNZA. How, then, do you expect to have quality graduates from UNZA who will contribute to national development? These are the issues and questions that we should ask ourselves. We have to seriously think of investing in what we have, but instead of investing, what do we do, as the Government? We want populist projects.

Mr Muntanga: Uhmmm!

Mr Lufuma: Projects that will suggest that we are working. On the contrary, we are not working. You want universities dotted all around the country, but do not have the necessary monies to see this come to fruition. Our eyes should not be bigger than our stomach. We know what we have, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: … but want to eat more than our stomach can accommodate.

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

Tell them.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, two universities have been established in Muchinga Province. Do we seriously need two universities in a village like that? These are the questions. There are two universities in Kabwe and Chongwe. Do we need two universities in one district? There are three universities on the Copperbelt Province, including the Copperbelt University (CBU) and Copperbelt Secondary Teachers’ Training College (COSETCO). Do we need all the three universities in one province? The Government has a policy to distribute a university in each province, but has established eight universities in a few provinces. Had the Government taken one university to each province, it would have been on its way to attaining its populism aims, but it is not.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: The Government is failing to do even the smallest things that it is supposed to do to be more popular.

Sir, the introduction of Palabana and Chalimbana universities is not cost-effective due to their proximity to the University of Zambia (UNZA). Those two could have been turned into university colleges, meaning that they would have been under one council.

Mr Muntanga: On point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, is the Member of Parliament for Luwingu, Hon. Mwamba, in order to continue sitting quietly and not indicate his desire to debate when he was bragging about how he best understands the subject on the Floor and that all of us who have debated do not? Is he in order not to indicate his desire to debate, withhold his knowledge and deny us the opportunity to tap from it? He bragged about his knowledge.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Question!

The Chairperson: He wants to give the opportunity to those of you who do not have as much knowledge as he has to debate.


The Chairperson: The hon. Member on the Floor may continue.

Hon. Member: Long live Chair!

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, the best that the Government could have done was to combine some of these colleges with certain areas of specialisation. For example, Chalimbana and Nkrumah have particular specialties. All that the Government needed to do was affiliate these colleges to a university of make them university colleges, if it is so crazy about universities. This would have reduced costs.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma: We need this money. At the moment, we are in a crisis because we do not know how to utilise the little resources that we have efficiently. If we could utilise the little resources we have in a prudent manner, the crisis would have been there, but it would have been lighter.

Mr Chairperson, I emphasise that these universities that we have built should bring about development. We should encourage students to get into hard sciences as much as possible. They assist us in terms of development. We need engineers and medical doctors. We need experts in research and development to make the country develop. We could start to produce our own technologies in Zambia and possibly export.

Sir, we should have a deliberate policy to encourage all those who are able to go into hard sciences because we need them. We can do this by ensuring that they get 100 per cent bursaries while other supporting administrative courses could be denied. This way, we would be directing our education system to support development. However, what we see in Zambia is everybody going for support courses in higher education at degree level and getting bursaries while those who will help this country to develop are denied. This is an element which the hon. Minister should think about and assist this country to progress.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I would like to go through my summary very quickly so that we can pass my budget.

Sir, I thank all the hon. Members who contributed to the debate despite that some of them moved from debating the ministry to debating the hon. Minister.


Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I will start with Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa’s contribution.

Hon. Government Members: Where is he?

Dr Kaingu: Unfortunately, he is not in the House. However, I am sure he is listening.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa has an illness ...


Dr Kaingu: … which none of us in here can cure. He seems to suffer from academic superiority complex.


Dr Kaingu: I think that all of us have noticed this. He would want all of us to believe that he is the only professor or doctor.


Dr Kaingu: What I know about the level Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa and I have attained is that we do not despise one another. I can forgive Hon. Muntanga, but a doctor should never despise another doctor.


Dr Kaingu: Doctors always respect one another because they understand that they do not share the same epistemology.


Hon. Government Member: Hammer!

Dr Kaingu: A simple word like ‘pedagogy’ simply means methodology.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I saw some people on your left who are ill-educated finding pleasure at the mention of the word ‘pedagogy’.


Dr Kaingu: In fact, it is colloquial English. A long time ago, a teacher was called a pedagogue. This is where the word comes from.

Mr Chairperson, I am also amused by the hypocrisy demonstrated by the two colleagues that are not here. They were once hon. Ministers of Education.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: It is amazing that they can stand and debate in the manner they did. I can only ask God to forgive them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I agree with Hon. Muntanga that Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa completed school before me. He was a Form ahead of me, and that is the source of what he is suffering from. Since he completed school earlier than I did, he thinks that he is older than me. Actually, he is my young brother.


Dr Kaingu: I was born in 1952, and he was born in 1953.


Dr Kaingu: Anyway, I will not waste my time debating ...


The Chairperson: Order!

I agree with you, hon. Minister. I think that you should summarise so that we can go to the figures.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I will move on, but you did not stop them when they were talking.


The Chairperson: Order!

I am now stopping you, not them. You are presenting a budget. They were not presenting a budget. That is the difference.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, most obliged.

Sir, if my predecessors really cared about the people who are qualified in Zambia and really wanted to match their skills with the jobs available on the market, they would have established a data base to help them know which individuals went to which colleges. However, they never did that. They left that responsibility to me. So, I will establish that data base. In fact, this Government does not want to create employees. It wants to create employers. The Government wants to create wealth. That is what we, as a Government, are aiming for. We will establish a data base so that we can know which areas need trained or untrained workers. We need to find an area where we can really engage ourselves.

Mr Chairperson, I thank Hon. Muntanga for his contribution. He simply waffled.


Dr Kaingu: I have nothing to say about his debate.


The Chairperson: Order!

Okay, we have laughed enough.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, ...

The Chairperson: Order!

I have not asked you to continue, hon. Minister. I want the House to calm down. I am sure that the use of the word, ‘waffle’ is not right. You can find a better word than that, hon. Minister.

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, he did not speak about the subject.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Chairperson: Order!

You are making our work difficult because if the hon. Minister starts something, then, we expect a reaction from somebody. This is why we try to advise you to be considerate in your responses because once you start something, you may not end it.

What is your point of order, Hon. Muntanga?

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, I am grateful that you have advised the hon. Minister to withdraw the word. In my debate, I mentioned to him the need for universities to produce fully qualified people. I mentioned to him the need for the Ministry of Higher Education to inspect private institutions of higher learning and make sure that they are registered.  


Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, is he in order to ignore all those points I gave him? I do not know whether he did not understand those points or he just has a satanic way of doing things.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

The Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Minister is responding to what various debaters said. So, let him continue.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I thank you, and I will not answer him.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo’s colleague, contiguous to him, is actually running a university. So, Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo’s colleague should have told him, “Look, if you tell the hon. Minister to close private universities, you are actually threatening my livelihood.”


Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, it is not true that all are graduates from Harvard University. We are happy to have passed through the universities we went to.

Sir, it is true that we have to focus on technology, innovation and entrepreneurship in this country. That is the only way we can create a smart Zambia. If we want to come out of poverty, we need to stop politicking. We have to focus our attention on entrepreneurship, innovation and technology.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: These are fundamental to all of us.

Mr Chairperson, I think that what Hon. Mtolo said falls under the ministry of my colleague, and I am sure that he will answer when his Head comes for debate. There is no college that is affiliated to the Examinations Council of Zambia (ECZ). We always talk about research. So, please, go and research.


Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I want to quickly go through this. I thank Hon. Mutelo for his contribution although his debate was more on general education. The dilemma of an hon. Minister is that anybody can advise him.


Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I want him to go and read about Boston University. The whole Boston City is about Boston University. Even Stellenbosch Town next door, in South Africa, is like that. Universities are in business, bwana.


Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I just want to correct Hon. Lufuma. He should not worry about having two universities in one town. Some cities have ten universities.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Mr Chairperson, I want to thank the hon. Members who have contributed to the debate on my policy statement. I also want to say that I used the word ‘colossal’ not with reference to the budget for my ministry, but to the entire National Budget. No amount of money will be enough for us to do the things we want to do. It is us who should squeeze all our programmes into the amount of money we have been given as a ministry.

Mr Chairperson, with those few words, I thank you.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 65/5504 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 65/5506 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 65/5507 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 65/5508 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 14 – (Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development – K37,200,368).

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Yaluma): Mr Chairperson, I wish to take this opportunity to thank you for allowing me to present the 2016 Budget Estimates for the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development.

Firstly, let me congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance for a well-presented Budget, under the theme “Fiscal Consolidation to Safeguard Our Past Achievements and Secure a Prosperous Future for All.”


The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, hold on.

I honestly think that we are not listening.

Continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Yaluma: Thank you, Sir.

My ministry, being responsible for the cornerstone of Zambia’s economy, is critical in making this theme a reality.

Mr Chairperson, the economic challenges we are currently experiencing attest to the fact that mining is Zambia’s engine for economic development. It is the largest foreign exchange earner and the largest formal employer, after the Government, and contributes more than 10 per cent to the gross domestic product (GDP).

It is for this reason that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, since coming to power, has paid particular attention to the growth of this sector to enhance its contribution to economic development. It is unfortunate, Sir, that the sector has plunged into hardships due to the declining copper prices on the world market.

Mr Chairperson, because of these challenges, the sector projected output, in terms of mineral production, may not be achieved this year even though the total production may surpass that of 2014. This is evident from the production figures for the period January to August, 2015, of 467,380.9 tonnes, which is 2 per cent more than what we recorded in the corresponding period of 2014. The marginal increase is attributed to the commencement of production at Kalumbila Mines.

Mr Chairperson, let me now highlight the achievements, in 2015, that we can build on to ensure sustainable development of this country. The achievements were in the following areas:

Legal and Regulatory Framework

Sir, the Mines and Minerals Development Act of 2008 was repealed and replaced by the Mines and Minerals Development Act of 2015, which came into effect in July, 2015. The new Act has provided for, among other things, the following:

(a)    issuance of regulation to enhance local content to foster the integration of local firms into the mining value chain. This will increase business opportunities for Zambians and reduce dependence on imported foreign goods and services;

(b)    issuance of regulations for marketing and monitoring of production and export of gemstones in order to ensure transparency and increased contribution of the sub-sector to economic development;

(c)    streamlining of licensed authorities. The licensing system, as provided for in the 2008 Act, had three granting authorities. In the new Act, only one authority will be responsible for granting mining rights. This will not only enhance transparency in the issuance of mining rights, but also improve monitoring of mining activities; and

(d)    relaxation of conditions of granting small-scale mining rights to Zambians to allow them access investment finance. This will promote diversification to other minerals with potential to contribute to industrial development in the country.

Monitoring and Regulation of the Industry

Mr Chairperson, to strengthen monitoring and regulation of the mining sector, for increased contribution to economic development, two projects were commenced. These are the Mineral Value Chain Monitoring Project, under the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), and the European Union (EU) Supported Mineral Production Monitoring Project, under the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. Both projects are aimed at enhancing tax revenue collection, through effective regulation and monitoring mineral production and exports.

Integrating Mining in National Development

Sir, to facilitate the formulation of a Country Mining Vision (CMV), in line with the African Mining Vision (AMV) and Vision 2030, the Government sought the assistance of the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) to implement a one-year preparatory assistance project for the mining sector capacity development. The implementation of the CMV is expected to ensure the integration of mining in the local economy, thereby, enhancing its contribution to economic development.

Mr Chairperson, in the 2016 Budget, my ministry’s allocation of K37,200,368 will be applied to the prudent implementation of the following key programmes:

(a)    improving availability of geological information. The ministry will continue geological mapping of Kasama, Kawambwa and Lufwanyama districts. The ministry will also speed-up the digitisation of geological data in order to enhance quality and availability of geological information;

(b)    improving the mining rights licensing system. The beginning point for efficient monitoring and regulation of mining activities is licensing. Therefore, the ministry will continue with the programme to improve the mining rights licensing system. Works are currently on-going to complete the computerisation of the licensing system, which has been both manual and electronic;

(c)    empowering Zambians to own mines. The ministry will continue with the programme of empowering Zambians to own productive small-scale mines by undertaking measures which include merging small-scale gemstone mining plots in order to attract investment in the sector;

(d)    development of the gemstone sector. In the gemstone sub-sector, my ministry will continue to implement measures to promote local marketing of gemstones by encouraging auctioning of the gemstones within Zambia, by both large and small-scale miners. The ministry will issue regulations to guide the sale of gemstones by small and large-scale miners;

(e)    mineral exploration and resources survey. The ministry will continue to promote exploration of non-traditional mineral commodities. The focus will be on industrial minerals which have the potential to contribute to development of other sectors and these include rare earth elements, limestone, gemstone, clays and aluminous rocks; and

(f)    mine inspections. Through the Mines Safety Department, the ministry will ensure adherence to mine safety and health regulations by mining companies, both small and large, in order to reduce mine accidents, promote health and reduce environmental pollution and degradation. This will involve promoting mine audits and risk assessments in the mines.

Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I wish to state that the challenges that the mining sector is facing are not permanent. In fact, challenges are also a blessing in disguise as they create impetus to do things differently and to move away from business as usual, which would not have happened had there been no challenges. There is no doubt that the industry is struggling due to low metal prices and the country is grappling with foreign exchange and power deficits. However, this situation is giving us an opportunity to implement measures in the sector that will make it and the economy at large resilient in times such as this.

Sir, I appeal to this august House to approve the 2016 Estimates of Expenditure for my ministry.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank all hon. Members of Parliament for this unanimous support. I will always cherish this moment and wish you all the best for the evening.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 14/01 – (Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development – Headquarters – K27,498,414).

Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1137, Activity 021 – Production of Tender Documents – K70,000 and Activity 027 – Tender Committee Meetings – K50,344.

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Livune: Kuli ba Kaingu

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, as you know, in the sport of football, the players who play for teams outside the country, the exports, have an obligation to play with the local players because together, they form a team.

Sir, as national secretary, I have been wondering whether the national chairperson for the Patriotic Front (PF), Hon. Dr. Simbyakula, who is the sports administrator, in order to keep quiet and enjoy the atmosphere when the exports and local players continue hammering each other while we, as national secretaries, are maules here?


Mr Mbulakulima: Is he in order not to come to my rescue and protect me when the exports and the local players who are supposed to play as one team ...


Mr Mbulakulima: Like you can see, my people have now fled, according to Hon. Kansembe. Is he in order not to protect my team and I?

Mr Chipungu: They are in his team.

Mr Mbulakulima: They are in his team? No, they still belong to my team.

Mr Njeulu: Just defect.

Mr Mbulakulima: Is he in order not to protect me?

The Chairperson: You have adequately debated your point of order.


Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, why is it that there is a reduction in Activity 021 – Production of Tender Documents – K70,000 for the coming year while there is an increase in Activity 027 – Tender Committee Meetings – K50,344?

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Mineral Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Chairperson, Programme 1137, Activity 021 – Production of Tender Documents – K70,000 and Activity 027 – Tender Committee Meetings – K50,344, there is a decrease that has been necessitated by the ceilings which have been reduced as we try to be prudent with the resources available.

Mr Mutelo rose.

The Chairperson: Another one?

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, there are two Activities on the same Programme.

Mr Musukwa: Mr Chairperson, we will use the resources reduced from the first activity to increase the meetings in question. We are using fiscal prudence as we are under stress in terms our ceiling.  

Vote 14/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 14/02 – (Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development – Geological Survey Department – K2,882,329).

Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 1211, Activity 001 – Monitoring, Processing and Export of Minerals – K70,000 and Activity 003 – Promotion of Value Addition to Minerals – Nil. Why is there no allocation for the promotion of value addition to minerals in next year’s Budget when there is an allocation for the monitoring and export of minerals?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Chairperson, the allocation for Programme 1211, Activity 001 – Monitoring Processing and Export of Minerals – K70,000, will carter for the purchase of fuel and payment of subsistence allowances to officers to visit mines, processing plants, mineral export exit permits and the reduction is because this activity will also draw resources from the European Union (EU) −funded Mineral Production Monitoring Support Programme. I am sure you heard the hon. Minister of Mines and Mineral Development indicate that there are two facilities that we are working on. We have one facility under the Ministry of Mines and Mineral Development and the other one under the EU. There is no allocation to Activity 003 due to the budgetary ceiling.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 14/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 14/03 – (Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development – Mines Safety Department – K2,350,677).

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Unit 04, Programme 1093, Activity 053 − Testing and Authorisation of Mining Equipment – K100,000. In 2015, there was no allocation and in 2016, there is an allocation. I would like to find out what has necessitated …


The Chairperson: Order!

The people on my right, at the back are too loud and I am having difficulties listening to what the people on the Floor are saying.

Continue, hon. Member.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, what has necessitated the introduction of this new activity and the rationale behind it.

Mr Musukwa: Mr Chairperson, as you may know, the aspect of inspection is a preserve of the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development Safety. This has been introduced in order for us to enhance the supervision in terms of the industry. On the previous provision, this was being undertaken at a different platform.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Unit 06, Programme 1093, Activity 009 –  Inspections – Large Mining – K300,000 and Activity 012 – Inspections – Small Mining K300,000. The allocation for Inspections-Large Mining has been reduced from K500,000 to K300,000 and the allocation for Inspections-Small Mining has increased from K255,000 to K300,000? What is the logic there?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Chairperson, the logic behind the reduction in Unit 06, Programme 1093, Activity 009 –  Inspections – Large Mining – K300,000 is that this provision, in terms of the large-scale mining, will cater for inspection of large mining operations to ensure compliance. The reduction in Activity 012 – Inspections – Small Mining K300,000 is due to the reduced budgetary ceiling.

Sir, the provision for small-scale mining will cater for the inspection of small-scale mines around the country. The increment in the allocation is due to the increased mining operations by small-scale mines. You will be interested to know that we have in excess of over 900 licences in terms of small-scale mining. So, it actually calls for such huge resources. Large-scale mining operations are quite few.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 14/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 14/04 – (Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development – Mines Development Department – K2,866,186).

Mr Mutelo: Mr Chairperson, I seek clarification on Programme 1182, Activity 002 – Maintenance of Motor Vehicles – K75,000 and Activity 009 – Motor Vehicle Insurance – K120,000. Which vehicles are being insured?

Mr Musukwa: Mr Chairperson, the provision of the Maintenance of Motor Vehicles in Programme 1182, Activity 002 – Maintenance of Motor Vehicles – K75,000 and Activity 009 – Motor Vehicle Insurance – K120,000 is intended to cater for motor vehicle repairs, servicing and purchases of tyres. The decrease in fund allocation is due to less repairs and maintenance rates as most vehicles in use were recently procured. I want to also state that the vehicles that we procured were approved by Hon. Mutelo in the previous Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 14/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 14/05 – (Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development – Energy Department – NIL).

Mr Chairperson: I understand this allocation has been moved to the Ministry of Energy and Water Development.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Chairperson, there is completely no allocation to all the programmes under this Vote this year. Is this due to fiscal discipline or is it by deliberate omission?

Mr Chairperson: The response is that this Vote has been moved to the Ministry of Energy and Water Development.

Vote 14/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 14/08 – (Ministry of Mines and Mineral Development – Water Resources Development – NIL).

Mr Chairperson: This Vote has no allocation because it has been moved to the Ministry of Energy and Water Development.

VOTE 62 – (Ministry of Energy and Water Development – K243,770,511).

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Ms Siliya): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for this opportunity to present the 2016 Budget Estimates for the Ministry of Energy and Water Development. My ministry’s mandate remains that of developing and managing energy and water resources in a sustainable manner for the benefit of the people of Zambia. These two sectors are key elements to the socio-economic development of our country and have the potential to greatly contribute to the country’s economic growth, employment generation and poverty reduction.

Mr Chairperson, I am making this policy statement at a very difficult time when Zambia is facing an electricity crisis which has culminated into a critical power deficit due to rapid economic growth that is unmatched by the investment in the electricity sector and the adversity of climatic change.

Mr Chairperson, in line with the Vision 2030, Zambia seeks to become a prosperous middle-income country which will translate into citizens having universal access to clean and affordable energy. In helping realise this goal, the energy sector has received incentives in the 2016 National Budget which I believe will help accelerate development in the sector and cushion the challenges the sector is facing. This is particularly important because there has been a rapid increase in power demand in the country at an average of 150 to 200 MW annually due to factors such as increased mining and industrial activities and agriculture sector investments and the rise in domestic lots. However, delayed investment in generation plants in the country have not matched this load growth coupled with a negative effect of climate change, resulting in the power deficit the country is currently facing.

Sir, the hon. Minister of Finance has proposed to extend the ten-year carry forward of losses to businesses generating electricity using alternative energy sources like solar and wind, but excluding wood. Further, he has also proposed to increase the capital allowance for all businesses involved in electricity power generation from 25 to 50 per cent. Furthermore, the hon. Minister proposed to increase the time period of claiming the Value Added Tax (VAT) charged on inputs for VAT registered companies that are in the process of beginning trading or intending to trade in the business of electricity generation from two years to four years.

Mr Chairperson, may I also remind the House that power generation is one of the priority sectors under the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA). Therefore, I strongly believe these new incentives provided for in the 2016 National Budget add to the existing incentives in form of allowances, exemptions and concessions for companies that wish to invest in energy and this will make the sector more attractive for investments. The incentives will also reduce the cost of developing power plants and attract independent power producers to increase generation capacity in Zambia.

Sir, in 2015, the ministry continued to implement programmes and projects in the energy sector that were aimed at ensuring that there was security of supply in the country. As you may be aware, the main thrust of the energy sector has been to expand electricity generation and transmission capacities and enhance cost effectiveness in fuel supply. This entails that the sector’s focus is on exploring the most effective hydro energy resources putting in place an efficient and effective energy supply system while mitigating the effects of climate change. In addition, the sector has continued exploring alternative sources of energy for sustainable development. To achieve this aim, we continued implementing measures targeted at increasing the electricity generation capacity, transmission and distribution network, storage capacity of fuel and, indeed, exploring new and innovative ways of developing renewable and alternative energies.

Mr Chairperson, in 2015, the ministry recorded significant progress in the petroleum sub-sector. Construction works on the Solwezi Fuel Deport were completed with commissioning tests underway while the construction of the Mongu Fuel Deport is 46 per cent complete. In order to ensure that the nation continues to have uniform petroleum pricing and access to fuel products, my ministry commenced the construction of rural filling stations in a phased approach with the first phase being in Luwingu and Mporokoso.

Dr Kaingu: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Chairperson, with regard to the electricity sub-sector, my ministry has relentlessly been implementing measures aimed at alleviating the load shedding situation that the country is experiencing. Immediate short-term measures include imports through the Southern Africa Power Pool (SAPP) of 150MW, imports from Mozambique’s utility company, Electricidade de Mocambique (EDM) of 100 MW, emergency power inputs from Aggreko at 148 MW and by the end of December, 2015, we expect the Itezhi-tezhi Power Plant to come on with the first 60 MW and Maamba Coal Power Plant with 300 MW is expected to be commissioned in June, 2016. The ministry also continues to promote renewable energy technologies.

Sir, medium to long-term measures include …

The Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)


The House adjourned at 1957 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 18th November, 2015.