DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 10th March, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MR SPEAKER

YOUTH DELEGATION

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform you of the presence in the Public Gallery of youths drawn from all the ten provinces of Zambia, who have come to participate in the commemoration of the Commonwealth Day which, this year, is celebrated under the theme, “A Young Commonwealth.” The commemorations emphasised activities that recognised the capacity and contributions of young people to fostering sustainable development and democracy. The main activity was a Youth Open Forum organised by the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA), Zambia Branch, which considered and adopted a proposal for the establishment of a National Youth Parliament. The objectives of the National Youth Parliament will be to: 

(a)    enhance young people’s participation in parliamentary democracy; and

(b)    foster Parliament’s interaction with the public and make it more accessible to youths.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other important national duties, the hon. Minister of Health, Dr Joseph Kasonde, MP., has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, from today, Tuesday, 10th March, 2015, until further notice.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Chishimba: Kula endeshako nokwendeshako nomba!

Dr Kasonde took the Vice-President’s seat.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

YOUTH DEVELOPMENT FUND

The Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to address this august House on the matter of the Youth Development Fund (YDF).

Mr Speaker, as you are aware, globally, young people comprise the largest component of any country’s population. It is estimated that 65 per cent of the global population is below the age of thirty-five, and Zambia is not an exception. People aged below thirty-five account for 82 per cent of our population while those aged between eighteen and thirty-five years comprise 40 per cent of our population. This is a pure case of a youth bulge. However, as a Government, we are committed to nurturing the youth and transforming the youth bulge into a youth dividend that will contribute positively to the social and economic development of the country.

Mr Speaker, the biggest challenge that youths face is limited employment opportunities and skills. Therefore, we need deliberate interventions that will create an enabling environment for employment creation. In this regard, the Government of the Republic of Zambia is promoting enterprise development among the youth as a way of creating empowerment and employment opportunities.

Mr Speaker, the Government has, since 2010, been allocating money to the YDF in the National Budget. The main objective of the fund is to empower the youth with resources for them to venture into entrepreneurship.

Mr Speaker, allow me to inform the august House the institutional arrangement put in place to manage the fund in a very transparent and accountable manner. 

Sir, the fund has been decentralised to the provinces and is managed through the provincial and national technical committees. 

The Provincial Youth Development Fund Technical Committee

Sir, the Provincial Youth Development Fund Technical Committee (PYDFTC) is chaired by the Provincial Permanent Secretary. The other members of the committee are:

(a)    four members of the Monitoring and Evaluation Sub-Committee of the Provincial Development Co-ordination Committee (PDCC);

(b)    two youth representatives, representing both genders; 

(c)    one officer from the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC);

(d)    one officer from the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC);

(e)    one officer from the Office of the President (OP), Special Division;

(f)    one officer from the Zambia Development Agency;

(g)    one officer from the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission;

(h)    one representative of the banking and financial services sector; and

(i)    the Provincial Youth Development Co-ordinator as the Secretary.

Sir, the Provincial Youth Development Fund Technical Committees (PYDFTCs) are responsible for:

(a)    information dissemination and community sensitisation on the YDF;

(b)    distribution and receipt of YDF application forms;

(c)    screening of applications by carrying out both desk and field appraisals;

(d)    recommending viable projects to the National Youth Development Fund Technical Committee (NYDFTC) for funding;

(e)    monitoring of funded projects; and

(f)    debt recovery.

Therefore, it is the PYDFTCs that are responsible for identifying and selecting the beneficiaries of the fund in their respective provinces.

The National Youth Development Fund Technical Committee

Mr Speaker, the YDF is co-ordinated and managed by the NYDFTC, which is chaired by the Permanent Secretary of the Ministry of Youth and Sport. The other members are representatives of the following institutions:

(a)    Future Search, under Cabinet Office;

(b)    ACC;

(c)    DEC;

(d)    OP, Special Division;

(e)    John Walnut Youth Empowerment Programme;

(f)    Junior Achievement Zambia;

(g)    Micro Bankers Trust of Zambia;

(h)    National Youth Development Council (NYDC);

(i)    Zambia Co-operative Federation (ZCF);

(j)    Zambia Development Agency (ZDA);

(k)    Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC);

(l)    Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock;

(m)    Ministry of Finance;

(n)    Ministry of Gender and Child Development;

(o)    Ministry of Justice; and 

(p)    Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry.

Mr Speaker, the NYDFTC is responsible for: 

(a)    policy and fiduciary trusteeship of the fund;
 
(b)    validation of recommendations from the PYDTC;

(c)    approval of budgets and work plans for YDF-funded projects;

(d)    assessment of the performance  of the fund;

(e)    setting of future priorities of the fund;

(f)    development and supply of training modules for all successful applicants of the YDF;

(g)    monitoring and evaluation of the fund and assessing its impact; and 

(h)    debt recovery.

Mr Speaker, between 2012 and 2014, we disbursed K43 million to 1,300 youth groups, facilitating the creation of over 3,000 youth employment opportunities. It is expected that this amount will rise in 2015, as the Government has allocated K29.3 million to the YDF in the 2015 National Budget, broken down as follows:

Purpose    Amount (ZMW)

Grants to youth organisations    3,000,000

 Revolving fund    20,477,899

Administration of the fund    5,825000

Total    29,302,899

Mr Speaker, to ensure equitable and efficient distribution, the funds have been divided and allocated to provinces using a scientific formula that takes into account the population variables. We multiply the number of youths in a province by the total YDF allocation in the National Budget, then, divide by the population of youths in the country based on the 2010 Central Statistical Office (CSO) Census of Population and Housing. 

Sir, I am delighted to inform this August House that, this year, using the formula I have already referred to, we have allocated the YDF as follows:

Province    YDF Allocation (ZMW)

Central Province    2,275,176.72

Copperbelt Province    3,448,899.96

Eastern Province    2,621,720.58

Luapula Province    1,767,532.90

Lusaka Province    3,976,788.35

Muchinga Province    1,363,668.62

North-Western Province     1,502,718.03

Northern Province    1,927,548.28

Southern Province    2,728,179.12

Western Province     1,700,745.62

Headquarters (for appeals, training,     6,010,000.00
monitoring and evaluation)

Total        29,302,899.00

Mr Speaker, the YDF can be accessed by any Zambian aged between eighteen and thirty-five years, and part of a legitimate company, co-operative, youth association, club or non-governmental organisation (NGO). The fund is given as a loan to viable projects that contribute to employment creation and national development. Additionally, grants are given to groups that are not in profit-making ventures, but supplement Government efforts in youth development through capacity building. The administration component, Hon. Namugala, is used for the following:

(a)    desk and field appraisal of applicants and their projects;

(b)    training of successful applicants for the YDF in business and entrepreneurship management prior to disbursement of funds;

(c)    publicity and sensitisation of the youth on the YDF;

(d)    YDF impact assessments;

(e)    monitoring and evaluation of funded projects; and 

(f)    debt recovery.

Mr Speaker, we are happy to note that all districts have begun to benefit from the YDF, unlike in the past, when most of the beneficiaries …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Mwale: … were from the provincial headquarters. However, hon. Members, I wish to state that the numbers of beneficiaries from rural districts are still lower than for those from the provincial centres, which should not be the case. In this regard, more efforts are being made to publicise this facility in rural districts. I, therefore, call upon all hon. Members of Parliament to sensitise the youth in their respective constituencies on the existence of the fund and its application procedures. Hon. Members of Parliament are further encouraged to hold capacity building workshops for the youth in their constituencies. My office, in collaboration with other stakeholders, among them, the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) and Future Search, is available to provide technical advice and train the youth on how to access the fund and manage their businesses. 

Interruptions

Mr Mwale: Hon. Nkandu Luo has already made a request for us to educate the youth in Munali Constituency on this subject and our officers will go there. 

Mr Speaker, the YDF is very popular among the youth. It is helping to change their mindset from that of dependency, entitlement and waiting for employment to that of taking up entrepreneurship as a viable career option. 

Sir, I thank the Ministry of Finance for continuing to increase the allocation budgetary allocation to the YDF over the last five years. This has enabled more youth to access the fund. However, due to the increased popularity of the fund, demand has always outstripped supply. 

Mr Speaker, to make the fund more efficient, effective and responsive to the needs of the youth, an assessment of its impact will soon be undertaken. The outcome of the assessment will inform the re-organisation of the fund. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport’s statement. 

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the history of the fund is characterised by its benefiting urban areas more than the rural ones. Unfortunately, I note that the criterion used in sharing the funds among the provinces is that of population, which means that the urban areas will continue to benefit at the expense of the rural areas because urban areas are more populated than the rural ones. So, is the hon. Minister not encouraging the rural-urban drift by this kind of discrepancy, thereby putting pressure on municipal services, such as water and sanitation, to communities in urban areas? Why should the ministry, at this point, when it decided to streamline the disbursement of the fund, still do it according to population size, thereby ensuring that the rural areas, which are already poorer than the urban areas, will continue to get very small amounts? 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, as I have already said, the fund is there to encourage young people to venture into small businesses. Currently, we think that the scientific population formula that I talked about is the best formula to use in disbursing the YDF. However, I think that the hon. Member has a point when she says that many people are drifting into urban areas from rural areas because things are very difficult there. Further, people in urban areas are well off compared with those in rural areas because there are more job opportunities in the urban areas. 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has introduced a very important dimension to our discussion, and hers is the kind of suggestions to which we are open. So, she is very free to go to our office and discuss with us how to further improve our current allocation formula. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I will take questions from the hon. Members for Kasenengwa, Kamfinsa, Kabompo West, Kapiri Mposhi, Chavuma, Mangango, Kasempa, Nangoma, Ikeleng’i, Kalabo Central and Muchinga. 

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister acknowledged that there has been very low provision of these funds to rural constituencies. I want to agree with him that, indeed, Kasenengwa has hardly benefited from this fund. 

Sir, bearing in mind the fact that there are youths in every constituency, does the hon. Minister not think that it is prudent to distribute the funds to all constituencies, as it is with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF)? Has he considered doing that in future? 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, currently, we believe that access to the fund should be demand-driven. The young people who feel that this fund will help them and are willing must come forward and ask for it. This way, we will know that they really need the help. It might not be helpful for us to simply decentralise for the sake of it and allocate the fund to each constituency. There may be some constituencies where people are not willing …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mwale: … to access this funding and we cannot force them. We want to use the constituency offices to disseminate information and distribute the application forms, but access must be demand-driven. However, if we, later, see a lot of demand in all constituencies and the fund continues to be increased, we may consider the hon. Member’s suggestion. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to remind the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport that he was once on this (Opposition) side of the House and used to condemn, with us, the way the Youth Development Fund (YDF) was being disbursed by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Now, I note the praises he has given to those whom he used to condemn. Together, we used to say that people, especially the youth, supporting those in the Opposition had no access to the fund. Can he assure us that those complaints that he used to make on the Floor of this House will be addressed by him and that the good policies of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) that he used to propound are the ones he will use to ensure that all of us benefit from the fund.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I must begin by thanking His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Mwale: … for giving me this opportunity to serve in this capacity as Minister of Youth and Sport.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Sir, I agree with the hon. Member that, when I was on the other side of the House, I raised one or two issues concerning this matter. Maybe, the reason I am now with the rest of my colleagues here is for me to work with them to improve on some things I had looked at from a different angle. I think, that is why we must support the President when he puts up an all-inclusive Government so that even those who are on the other side can assist in finding solutions to national problems. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.  

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that there are about …

Interruptions 

Mr Livune: Kaili you are eating together!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chishimba: … 1,300 youth clubs that have, so far, benefited from the Youth Development Fund (YDF). He further indicated that the funds are demand-driven. How many of the beneficiary clubs were from Kitwe? Further, how much was disbursed to those clubs?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I have that information at the office. I try to avoid talking about the distribution of this fund since 2010 because I thought it would take up too much time. However, the hon. Member is free to visit us at our offices. We have the information and can give it to him. Alternatively, we can circulate it to all the hon. Members of Parliament.

I thank you, Sir. 

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minster tell me about the revolving fund. My understanding of such a fund is that whatever is borrowed from it is paid back, if possible, with interest. What mechanisms has he put in place to ensure that all the youth who borrow from the fund repay the money so that, in turn, it is can be lent to other groups, hence expanding its coverage and benefit? 

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, this is a very important question to which the ministry is trying hard to find an answer. 

Sir, we are not doing very well in the area of debt recovery. Not many of the young people who borrow money are paying back. The hon. Member is right to observe that this money is revolving and should assist other young people who are coming up with project proposals and applying for funds. We have had challenges in recovering the money but, like I said in the statement, the power to do that is vested in the PYDFTC, which exists in all the provinces. Therefore, it does not only have the mandate, but also the reach to recover the money. 

Sir, we also make sure that the young people who apply for funding under the YDF are given guarantors, who are liable to settling the debts if the debtors fail to pay. We work with those people to improve on our rate of recovery. Additionally, we have taken names of some youths from whom we have failed to recover money to the Ministry of Justice so that the Office of the Attorney-General can advise us on how to start litigation, as there is a provision for that.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, since the hon. Member has requested the Office of the Member of the Central Committee, …

Interruptions 

Mr Musonda: … sorry, I mean the Office of the Member of Parliament …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter 

Mr Musonda: … to help disseminate information on the Youth Development Fund (YDF), do you not think that it would be prudent that the hon. Members of Parliament be represented in the Provincial Youth Development Fund Technical Committee?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the provincial committee is called a technical committee because its members must have technical expertise in the development of small-scale enterprises into big businesses. Therefore, its membership must be left to the technocrats. The other reason we do not want hon. Members of Parliament to be part of this programme is that we do not want it to be politicised. We represent our constituencies, but we also belong to political parties. So, we want to leave the whole process, from applying to approving, free of any form of political interference or inclination. We also want to ease the burden of hon. Members of Parliament. I know that, if they were to be a part of this programme, they would be approached by many groups seeking funding and it would be difficult for them to disappoint those groups if they belonged to the committee. The role of hon. Members should remain that of oversight and helping in assessing the effectiveness of the fund in improving the lives of young people. I think that we can leave it at that.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister indicated that the Government disbursed about K43 or K46 million, I stand to be corrected, to the Youth Development Fund (YDF) from 2010 to 2014, while, in the 2015, it will disburse about K29 million. How has the money disbursed between 2010 and 2014 been used and how successful has its recovery been?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, like I said in last paragraph of my statement, the ministry plans to undertake an impact assessment of the fund with a view to re-organising it. I do not have the information on how the fund has been used since 2010 with me here. However, I have it at my office and I can give it to you. I extended an invitation to you to come to the ministry for that information. Additionally, after the impact assessment, I could share our findings, conclusions and remedies, if any, that we will arrive at with the rest of the House. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mangango.

Mr Livune: Ah!

Hon. Opposition Members: Lingweshi.

Mr Lingweshi (Mangango): Mr Speaker, I would like to know a few things from the hon. Minister about the Youth Development Fund (YDF) that is being disbursed to the youth. 

Sir, in my constituency, Mangango, not even one club has heard of this programme.

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Lingweshi: Two days ago, I took more than twenty application forms to give to the youth there who do not have any jobs, thinking that, by giving them these materials, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Lingweshi: … they would find a way to uplift their lives.

Mr Speaker, it seems that the urban areas are given more funds than the rural ones. The problem that we have, currently, is that the rural areas, which have youths who do not have any source of income, are not given adequate funds. Our province has been given over K1 million, but …

Mr Speaker: What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Lingweshi: Mr Speaker, is it not possible to increase the fund in the rural areas, not only in the urban areas? 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Lingweshi for taking keen interest in this matter. I can see that he has got young people at heart, as can be seen from how long he took to pose his question, in which he has raised a very important issue that has also been raised by Hon. Imenda. I also thank him for coming to our ministry to collect the forms that he took to his constituency.

Sir, we will look into the matter and see whether the formula we use to apportion the YDF to the provinces is the best, considering the fact that, in urban areas, young people have more job opportunities than in rural areas. 

Mr Speaker, in future, we will also consider using the offices of the Town Clerks and the hon. Members of Parliament to distribute the forms, which will be in line with our Decentralisation Policy. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let me provide some guidance. 

Please, let us avoid the long-winded prefaces we make before asking our questions. They are unnecessary. We only need to raise points of clarification. A statement has been made by the hon. Minister. If there is anything you would like to be clarified, you can ask a direct question. If there is not, there is no point in indicating to speak.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister almost touched on my question. Due to the outcry from this (Opposition) side of the House, his predecessor had promised that the hon. Members of Parliament could access these forms and send them directly to the provinces instead of using the District Commissioners (DCs).  Is that position still the same?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, yes. In the statement, I called upon all hon. Members of Parliament to come forward and assist in disseminating information and distributing the forms.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, during the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government, we used to get footballs from the ministry. That ended when the Patriotic Front (PF) came into power. Why is it so?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the ministry will soon launch Community Sports, a programme through which such kind of activities will be undertaken. The hon. Member will be informed when we launch it.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think that it would be necessary to carry out a performance audit so that he can determine how the Youth Development Fund (YDF) has been distributed and utilised? 

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister has stated that there will be an impact assessment.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is trying to run away from including hon. Members of Parliament on the technical committees to avoid the politicising the Youth Development Fund (YDF). Is he not aware that there is a District Commissioner (DC), who is a full-time Patriotic Front (PF) cadre, but is a member of a technical committee and is falling prey to the desire to promote conditions that favour PF members?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I gave this House lists of the members of the PYDFTCs and NYDFTC. From that list, you can clearly see that District Commissioners (DCs) are not members of these committees. Therefore, I am taken aback by the suggestion that there is a DC who seats on one of the committees. If it is true, the hon. Member is free to share the details with us at the ministry so that we can determine what to do.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, this programme is one way of providing employment to the young people. What is the Government doing to make sure that the fund is not politicised?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, in the statement, I said that we did not want to get politicians involved in determining who should benefit from the fund at the provincial and national levels. That is why the technical committees at these levels do not include politicians. That is how the ministry ensures the programme is not politicised. I cannot give the youth fund to anyone. We have left that work to the technical committees, which consist of technocrats and people who understand business. The only thing that I can do, as Minister, is receive appeals from dissatisfied applicants. 
 
I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, democracy demands checks and balances in public affairs. Whereas I heard the hon. Minister talk about the criteria for the disbursement of the funds, which are population and need, does he know that, for demand to really be there, the people in need should be informed about the availability of a solution to their needs? Could he not consider coming up with a schedule of sensitisation meetings to be held in all constituencies? If it is too expensive to do that at the constituency level, it can be done at the district level so that the correct information is disseminated to encourage people to make proper applications for funding?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, yes, it is true that we need to create more awareness so that, in constituencies where people are not benefiting, they can learn more about the fund and apply for it. Like I said earlier on, we are trying, as much as possible, to make the offices of the Town Clerks at district councils part of this programme. We will try to provide a little resource for them to conduct more sensitisation meetings. The reason we have a huge amount of money, K6 million to be specific, retained at the ministry is that we want to conduct a workshop for DCs so that they can, then, help in dissemination of information, and find more ways of involving the local authorities. Yes, the need is there and we are moving in that direction.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, how does the ministry intend to address the issue of guarantees in the villages to ensure that there is no discrimination in the allocation of the Youth Development Fund (YDF)?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I know that we need to soften the conditions under which young people can access this funding. However, I also think that the issue of guarantors is very important because, otherwise, we can easily give this fund to young people who may just misuse it while denying a chance to those who genuinely want to engage in business. Therefore, it is very important that we have very viable guarantors in the disbursement of this fund. In some cases, we accept traditional leaders as guarantors.
 
I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Miti (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, has the ministry considered coming up with a committee at constituency level, like there is for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), to make the Youth Development Fund (YDF) equitably accessible to the youths, especially in the rural areas where this facility has not been adequately utilised?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, that sounds like a good idea and it has worked well for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), but we would have to scrutinise it and see if it can work well for the YDF as well. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the former hon. Minister of Youth and Sport, who has just left the Assembly Chamber, used to carry cheques and distribute them to the youths around the country. Will the current hon. Minister of Youth and Sport inherit that method of disbursing this fund?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I think that the hon. Minister would not make trips solely to hand over cheques. In most cases, he did that as he travelled on other business. He took advantage of his trips to the provinces to keep in touch with the youths.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwale: We now want to see more ownership of this programme at the provincial level and favour the idea of the Provincial Ministers or members of the PYDFTC performing that function. However, there was nothing wrong with the hon. Minister doing it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, at a ceremony in the Eastern Province, His Excellency the President directed the hon. Minister to remove the sections on the application form that made it difficult for young people to easily access the fund. Now that my good friend, the hon. Minister has settled down, has he already identified those areas? If he has, how soon do we expect a revised form?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, indeed, the President made that directive in Chipata at a meeting, not a ceremony, after some youths complained to him that they found the forms not user-friendly. As soon as we returned from Chipata, we sat down, as a ministry, and looked at the forms and have worked out a formula for making them more accessible and user-friendly. We intend to train some people in the districts who will distribute the forms and help young people in filling them in the right way. However, I feel that the forms are actually user-friendly. Maybe, the reason some young people find them hard to fill in is that they did not have the privilege to go to school. We have simplified the forms, as directed by the President, and they are now more user-friendly.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, in the past, only the provinces have benefitted from the fund. What measures has the ministry put in place to make sure that the youths in every district benefit from this fund?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, like I said, we have involved the DCs in the distribution of the forms to and collection from the youths after they have been filled in. We also intend to involve the Town Clerks because councils are in every district. These are the steps that we are taking to ensure that the youths in every district benefit from the fund. I agree with the hon. Member that only youths from the provincial centres used to benefit in the past. The reason is that the offices of the ministry only exist at the provincial level.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, when the youths, especially those from Kwacha Constituency, apply for this fund, they do not get any feedback on the status of their applications. Could the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport explain why that is the case?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, we receive thousands of applications from young people. Given how small the fund is …

Ms Lubezhi interjected.

Mr Mwale: I am explaining, Hon. Lubezhi.

Laughter

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, since the funding that the ministry receives is very little, not everybody is able to benefit from it. It is also difficult for us to provide feedback to every group that applies for the fund. Those who want feedback concerning their applications can get it from the technical committees. Let me, again, use Hon. Prof. Nkandu Luo as an example. She sent some youths to my office last week to find out why they had not accessed funding even after they had been applying for it over a three-year period, and they got the feedback and assistance on how they could write a good application that would have a better chance of being accepted. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I will take the last round of questions from the following hon. Members.

Hon. Members indicated.

Mr Speaker: I already have a list and am just announcing. 

I will take questions from the hon. Members for Nalikwanda, Kaoma Central, Rufunsa, Mwembeshi and Liuwa.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has given us an inkling of his policy thrust on the re-organisation of the fund for better service delivery. Does he not agree with me that the current nomenclature of the Youth Development Fund (YDF) is highly nebulous and needs to be reviewed? Maybe, it should be given a name closer to Fund for Development by Youths so that it is more targeted towards mobilising the youths for participation in the development programme.

 Mr Mwale:  Mr Speaker, I will take the hon. Member’s question as a suggestion that might enable us to scrutinise the system and add value to the programme.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told us that 85 per cent of the Zambian population is made up of youths. Could the hon. Minister tell me the percentage of our population he will capture with the budget of K29 million in comparison with the percentage of youths in our population.

 Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, the 81 per cent that I referred to in relation to the Zambian population does not consist solely of youths, but also includes everyone from birth to thirty-five years, while the youths are in the eighteen to thirty-five years bracket. Therefore, we have to do some arithmetic to determine what percentage will be catered for by the K20 million. Unfortunately, I am unable to do that now, but we can work out something and provide the information to the hon. Member.

 I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, I congratulate the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport on his appointment.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Chipungu: Sir, in the past, the idea to introduce a youth-friendly bank was mooted. Is the idea still there?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, that issue is still on the cards. In fact, there are some provisions in this year’s Yellow Book to that effect.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, how often does the ministry get feedback on the performance of the fund from the provinces and districts?

Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, like I said, the ministry acts as a secretariat. At the provincial level, the Provincial Youth Co-ordinator is the secretary to the technical committee while at the national level, the Permanent Secretary is secretary and member of the committee on the fund. It is through those representatives that the ministry gets regular feedback.

 I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told us that the committee that examines the applications is broad-based so as to avoid wrongdoing and corruption. However, for the last three years, the youths in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency have been going to ask for funding but, on every occasion, have been told that there is no money. None of them was funded during that period. What is the hon. Minister’s advice to the youths of Liuwa on what they should do to access the fund? What is his advice, in case the youths are listening?

 Mr Mwale: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for representing his people well by asking that question. 

Sir, I urge the hon. Member to go a little further and request the ministry, at the provincial level, to go to Liuwa hold a workshop for youths on the YDF. The ministry will gladly accept that initiative. My advice is that the youths must organise themselves and invite someone from our ministry to address them on how they can be helped to easily access the fund.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government: Hear, hear!

______

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

ILLEGAL TRADE IN ENDANGERED TREE SPECIES

402. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    how many people were arrested countrywide for illegal trade in endangered tree species, such as Mukula and Mukwa, from January to October, 2014;

(b)    of the suspects, how many were from Rufunsa District; and

(c)    what the outcomes of their cases were.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila): Mr Speaker, 195 people were arrested countrywide for illegal trade in endangered species from January to October, 2014.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mwila:  Sir, four of the people were arrested in the Northern Province. In one case, two people of Chiyanga Village in Chief Zombe area, Mbala District, were jointly charged with unlawful possession of the Mukula tree and fined K500. The other case was in Luwingu District and involved two people from Tanzania, who were fined K10,000 and had their truck forfeited to the State together with the logs. In the Eastern Province, 166 people were arrested. Out of that number, sixty-six were convicted and fined, twelve were discharged while twenty-eight are still on trial. In Muchinga Province, twenty-seven people were arrested, twenty of whom have been convicted while the rest are still on trial. Four of those convicted were sentenced to custodial sentences of two years imprisonment while the rest were fined. In Lusaka Province, eleven people were arrested. Of the eleven, four have been convicted and fined while the other are still on trial. In Luapula Province, three persons were arrested, of whom one has been convicted and fined while the other two are still appearing in court. In Central Province, forty-four persons were arrested, of whom thirty-three persons have been convicted while nine were acquitted and two are still appearing in court. Of the thirty-three convicted, thirty-one have been fined while two were given custodial sentences of twelve months imprisonment.

Sir, no one from Rufunsa was arrested in connection with illegal trade in endangered tree species. However, Rufunsa Police Station has logs of Mukula tree that were confiscated by Department of Forestry officials. The logs are at the station for safe-keeping.

Mr Speaker, the following are the outcomes of the cases:

Outcome    Number of Cases

Fines    122

Custodial Sentences    6

Discharges    12

Acquittals    9

Cases Pending    49

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for the question.

Hon. Members: Answer!

Mr Chipungu: Mwamvera, so chabe.

Laughter

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, it is very clear that the indiscriminate cutting down of the Mukula and Mukwa trees is on the increase. What is the Government doing to minimise this scourge, especially in Rufunsa, where it has continued?  

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, that is not a responsibility of the Ministry of Home Affairs, but that of the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection. However, officers in the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection should work with the police in dealing with such cases.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushili Malama (Chitambo): Mr Speaker, …

Ms Imenda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. 

Sir, I went to Luena to march in commemoration of the International Women’s Day. While there, I heard on radio, for your information, the radio signal in Luena is very bad, that our beloved President had collapsed while officiating at some function. I was very concerned and had so many questions. For example, I wondered why the team of doctors attached to the President’s Office had not detected his medical condition in good time. Why did it take the President’s collapsing for them to notice that he was unwell? I ask this because I do not think that the President just suddenly fell ill. Why did his doctors not give proper advice to our beloved President on his state of health?

Interruptions 

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I just want to advise the President to keep a distance from retired presidents and those who are clinging to the presidency even when they are ninety-one years old. 

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: My ruling is simple. I have previously guided on what qualifies as a point of order. By any stretch, all the matters that you have raised, but especially the last part of what you said do not fall in the ambit of what should be the subject of points of order. As for the former, it is not for this office to engage in speculation. All I can say, in conclusion, is that State House has been very adept in the way it has handled this issue. It has issued consistent bulletins and, if you follow the media, both print and electronic, you will have the latest information on what is happening. If you listened to the news at 1300 hours, this afternoon, you heard yet another update on the matter. Therefore, it is not necessary to bring all those issues on the Floor of the House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! 

Long live the Chair!

Mr Mushili Malama: Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister indicated that the logs that are confiscated from suspects are forfeited to the State. What happens to those logs after they are forfeited to the State? Are they exported or used locally?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, firstly, these cases are taken to the courts of law. Once they are disposed of, the Ministry of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection decides whether to sell them or not.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, in our laws, there is nowhere it is prohibited to cut the Mukula and Mukwa trees, but people have been arrested for doing so. Which law have the police used to arrest those people?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I advise the hon. Member for Chadiza to read the Forests Act for him to discover that the cutting down of these trees is illegal.

Thank you, Sir.

Laughter 

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think that it is time his ministry established a special squad to fight this problem in the country?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the current arrangement we have in the Zambia Police Force is adequate for dealing with illegal trading in the Mukula tree.

Thank you, Sir. 

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, we are all aware that, ultimately, the buyers of trees, especially the Mukula tree, are the Chinese nationals in Zambia. Were any of those arrested Chinese nationals? If not, is the hon. Minister not worried that the Chinese are using our people as fronts while they get away with illegality and continue to encourage the indiscriminate cutting down of this very precious natural resource?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, most of the people arrested are Zambians. As to whether they were being used by the Chinese, I do not know because I do not have that information.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, public speculation is rife that the Mukula tree is exported and used for purposes other than those of ordinary timber.

Mr Mutelo: Like what?

Mr Mweetwa: For medicinal purposes.

Sir, has the Government got any intention to investigate this claim? I ask this because, if the claim is true, I think that the value of the tree could be higher than we export it for.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I confess that I have never seen the Mukula tree.

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: No, I have not. That is true. So, it is very difficult for me to comment on that question. However, our interest, as a ministry and the police, is to ensure that those who illegally trade in the Mukula tree are arrested.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Sianga (Sesheke): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Please, hon. Member, you have already asked a question. Someone else can ask a follow-up question if you are not satisfied with the response your question got. So, I will not allow that point of order.

Mr Sianga: Mr Speaker, from the number of those arrested mentioned by the hon. Minister, how many are senior Government officials?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I do not have that information at the moment. However, given some time, I can go through the list and get back to the hon. Member of Parliament.

Thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF HEALTH POSTS IN MITETE

403. Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West) asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a)    what the progress on the construction of the following health posts in Mitete District was:

(i)    Chinonwe;

(ii)    Mambungo;

(iii)    Lutembwe;

(iv)    Washishi;

(v)    Lupui; and

(vi)    Mbangweta; and

(b)    what the estimated period of completing the construction of the health posts was. 

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mr Chisala): Mr Speaker, the health posts mentioned in the question are part of the project to construct 650 health posts. However, Lutembwe was replaced by Manjolo following a request by the District Administration and the site at Manjolo was handed over to the contractor on 30th January, 2015. The contractor has since mobilised and started clearing the site. The sites for the other health posts will be handed over as soon as they become accessible.

Sir, the estimated time frame for the completion of the construction of the health posts is two years. So, it is estimated that the health posts will be completed by February, 2016.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I …

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise this point of order, which I wanted to raise a few minutes ago.

Sir, if you go to the Great East Road right now, you will find heavy traffic arising from the fuel shortage in the country. Further, I was almost delayed when coming here this morning because I could not find fuel in Choma yesterday. Is the Executive, therefore, in order to remain quiet and not update the nation on the fuel crisis? Many people are unable to go for work or are delayed as a result of the fuel shortage.

I need your ruling, Sir.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is that the Executive has requested my office to allow a ministerial statement on the matter and I have given my permission.

Mr Antonio: Yes.

Mr Sianga: When?

Mr Speaker: Tomorrow.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I came back from my constituency just this morning. We can now access the project sites because they are not flooded. That being the case, can we not push the contractors to start the construction of the health posts? Additionally, we had started with Lutembwe, but it has since been replaced with Manjolo. How will the people of Washishi feel?

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, we do not have any problem with his pushing for construction of the health posts. He says that there are no floods in the Western Province, especially in the project sites. So, it is a matter of just instructing our officers at the provincial level to verify his information. Once they confirm that all is well, we shall instruct our colleagues at the provincial level to start the works.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

COMMISSIONING OF REUBEN RURAL HEALTH POST

404. Mr Mushili Malama asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    when Reuben Health Post in Luombwa Ward in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency would be opened to the public; and

(b)    what had caused the delay in opening the health post.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, Reuben Health Post in Luombwa Ward in Chitambo Parliamentary Constituency is expected to open to the public after its completion in September, 2015.

Mr Speaker, the construction of Reuben Health Post has been delayed by a poor community contribution to the project and challenges experienced by the contractor in accessing the site, which resulted in the contractor abandoning the works. However, an assessment has been undertaken and the Provincial Administration has re-tendered the project. So, the works will commence soon.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I always get confused on which ministry to direct my questions to. When you look at Questions 403 and 404, which follow each other on the Order Paper, they are almost the same. Which areas fall primarily under the hon. Minister’s portfolio? Is it clinics, construction projects, hospitals or training schools?

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Which is his work?

Laughter

Dr Kalila: Jurisdiction.

Mr Mbewe: Sir, can he be very clear.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, I hope you will be clear, especially on the latter part of the question.

What is your work?

Laughter

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, I accept the invitation for me to lecture. 

Laughter

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health has coined a National Health Policy with the intention of creating a healthy and productive nation. In so doing, we have placed a premium on primary health care and, to strengthen service delivery in that sector, we devolved that function to the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health. That means that all the health promotion and disease preventive measures in the health sector will be undertaken or spearheaded by our colleagues in the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health while we will be concerned with the curative and rehabilitative services. However, there are some areas of convergence between the two ministries. If you look at the core inputs of service delivery, they include human resource, infrastructure and drugs. So, some of the policy and sensitive matters are handled by the Ministry of Health, including infrastructure. We collaborate with our sister ministry in infrastructure construction and planning, but my ministry leads the other.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Lubinda: He seems to be more confused now.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, on the curative part, here is a pole-and-mud structure in which medicine is administered, but at health facility like the one under discussion, Reuben which, like Lutembwe, which was built using the Constituency Development Funds (CDF), has a permanent structure, we cannot provide medicine. Meanwhile, the hon. Minister claims to be promoting primary health care. What is that?

Laughter

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, I am now as confused as the questioner.

Laughter

Dr Chilufya: I am not sure what he is asking about. 

Sir, a structure is only necessary to house equipment and human resource to ensure that services are provided. Some of the structures will be pole-and-mud while others will be constructed with other materials. I hope that I have been helpful although I am not too sure I understood the question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF DAMS IN MAGOYE

405. Mr Mulomba (Magoye) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock when the Government would construct dams for livestock and irrigation in the following areas of Magoye Parliamentary Constituency:

(a)    Nalwala, Kaseele, Mbiya and Jilihiba in Mwanachingwala Ward;

(b)    Tetebatwa and Mphangwe in Munenga Ward;

(c)    Chiziyo, Mabanga and Bambala in Kalama Ward; and

(d)    Chipusyo in Munjele Ward.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, early last year, the ministry carried out a feasibility study of dam sites at Itebe and Mbiya in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency, but the sites were found to be unsuitable for earth dams. The ministry will undertake feasibility studies for the remaining areas as and when the communities approach the District Agriculture Co-ordinator (DACO) for facilitation. 

Mr Speaker, every year, the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock plans and budgets for the construction of primarily small multi-purpose dams in selected areas that have fisheries and livestock activities and a high potential for irrigation. However, the projects are demand-driven by communities with clear ideas of what they intend to use the dams for. The plans for dams are, therefore, based on a compilation of requests for dams from communities throughout the country. The farmers in Mwanachingwala, Munenga, Kalama and Munjele wards of Magoye Constituency are, therefore, encouraged to approach their nearest Agricultural Camp Extension Officers and DACOs for technical and external advice if they need this kind of assistance.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mulomba: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I am sorry for disrupting the debate of hon. Member for Magoye.

 Sir, I was very clear in my mind about my question to the hon. Deputy Minister of Health. Was he in order to say that he was as confused as I was about the question when I was not confused?
 
Laughter

Mr Mutelo: At the end of his answer, he said that he had not understood my question. If that was so, I think that he should have asked me to repeat the question so that he could understand what he had not understood. Was he in order to say that I was confused when he got confused by my question?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Well, there are two issues here. Firstly, the point of order has not been raised contemporaneously. As you can see, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock is the one who is now answering questions. Secondly, just for the record, I did not understand his statement as meaning that you were confused, but that the question was confusing. That is how I understood him. If you recall, ultimately, your question was, “What is this?” That suggested some confusion on your part concerning what you were asking about.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: It is in that breath that I understood him to have responded that he was equally confused. Be that as it may, let us raise points of order contemporaneously. We are now dealing with a question that was directed to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock.

The hon. Member for Magoye may continue.

Mr Mulomba: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the construction of dams should be demand-driven. Is he not aware that the people of Itebe and Mwanachingwala wards, through my office, formally requested his ministry to construct dams in their areas? Why is he not responding to that demand?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member paid attention to our response, he would have heard me say that the community, which includes the hon. Member of Parliament, makes its request through the Agricultural Camp Extension Officer. The request is, then, passed on to the DACO and, finally, on to the ministry. That said, if the request was made, the hon. Member can follow it up using the procedure I have explained. We will be available to provide the service.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that the ministry surveys dam sites every year throughout the country and that people can request for construction of dams. In Magoye, as in my constituency, people requested for dams to be constructed, but nothing has happened. If the procedure is as outlined by the hon. Minister, why have the dams not been constructed when we have formally requested them from the District Agricultural Co-ordinator (DACO) through the Camp Agriculture Officers?

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, in our response, we said that the ministry plans and budgets for the construction of dams. True to the procedure that Hon. Muntanga has referred to, when a request comes up to the headquarters, we embark on the construction, depending on the number of dams we need to construct. Indeed, if you look through this year’s Budget, there is a line for dam construction. However, the construction of dams also depends on the availability of resources.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, the Government has always talked about constructing dams for livestock and irrigation. How many dams have been constructed for that purpose in rural areas from 2011 to date?

Laughter

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, I encourage the hon. Member to file in a new question because the time frame covered by the question is too wide for us to give an answer outrightly.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: I expected that response.

Laughter

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister said that the construction of dams is demand-driven. We are aware that development structures like the District Development Co-ordinating Committees (DDCCs) and the Provincial Development Co-ordinating Committees (PDCCs) solicit input into their plans, and most districts have those plans. We also know that other ministries consider that input as people’s demand for specific services, that is, as the basis for considering the projects they give birth to as people-driven or demand-driven. Why is the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock an exception? Why does it not consider what comes through the DDCCs and the PDCCs as indications of people demanding particular services? Why does it rely on what is channelled through its camp officers?

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, I thought that the hon. Deputy Minister was clear when he said that the requests are processed through the Camp Agriculture Officers through the District Agriculture Co-ordinators (DACOs). The DACOs, for the information of the people listening, are also members of the District Development Coordinating Committees (DDCCs). Therefore, we are not precluding the participation of the DDCCs in the process. All we are saying is that the requests are people-driven. The communities make their requests through the Camp Agriculture Officers and the requests are processed through the DACO and, eventually, if need be, they come to the head office. Otherwise, the process is decentralised. The DACOs decide whether to conduct feasibility studies and, if they conduct the feasibility studies, they decide whether the dams are feasible or not. Only after they have certified the feasibility, do they go to the head office for allocation of resources.

I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has confirmed that the Government plans for dam construction yearly. However, there are many dams that need rehabilitation. For example, in Kasenengwa, most dams are not operational. When will the hon. Minister bring a plan for the rehabilitation of dams, especially in Kasenengwa? I ask this because I do not want to have to waste this House’s time by asking a question similar to the current one.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, we have tried to explain that the construction of dams is based on the demands of the people while rehabilitations depend on the state of the dams. It is, therefore, not possible for us to come up with a comprehensive two-year plan for the rehabilitation of dams, for instance, because the dams may be operational today and collapse before the next rainy season. What we could do is present to this House all the dams that are on our request forms. Those are the ones that we can speak about. We cannot come and just present a plan without requests from the communities. We have the information about all the dams whose rehabilitation has been requested and we can provide it.

I thank you, Sir. 

IMPASSE BETWEEN LOCAL AND INTERNATIONAL PETROLEUM TRANSPORTERS

406. Mr Chitafu (Kafulafuta) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development what measures the Government had taken to resolve the impasse between local and foreign transporters of petroleum products.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, my ministry and the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) are in the process of developing clear guidelines aimed at striking a balance between the interests of local transporters and those of foreign ones to ensure that none of the parties is disadvantaged in any manner because it is the Government’s policy to encourage the participation of its citizens, attract investment and promote competition in the petroleum sub-sector.

Mr Speaker, the ERB has drafted a statutory instrument (SI) to encourage the participation of Zambians in the petroleum sub-sector by encouraging foreign-owned companies to partner with Zambians. This is meant to give legal backing to the new guidelines that will compel foreign transporters to partner with Zambians. The ERB has also put in place interim measures to immediately curb the alleged domination of foreign-owned companies in the petroleum sub-sector, particularly in transportation, by limiting the issuance of petroleum transportation licences to companies that have, at least, 50 per cent Zambian shareholding. Foreign-owned companies have been allowed to continue operating, pending the expiry of their licences.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that foreign-owned companies that have been licensed to transport petroleum have been allowed to continue operating, pending the expiry of their licences. Once their licences expire, they will be required to conform to the new licensing guidelines requiring them to partner with Zambians before their licences can be renewed by the ERB.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Chitafu: Mr Speaker, from the hon. Minister’s response, it seems that this issue has not been resolved fully. Does he agree with me that, partly, the current erratic supply of fuel in Zambia is a result of the same issue?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, I do not agree with him.  However, let me explain a bit more. 

Sir, the ERB commenced consultations with all transporters in order to come up with new licensing guidelines that would address some of the concerns that were raised by the Petroleum Transporters Association of Zambia (PTAZ). The first meeting was held on 3rd September, 2014, during which the transporters and a number of Government agencies, such as the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), Patents and Companies Registration Agency (PACRA), Competition and Consumer Protection Commission (CCPC), Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) and Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA), were invited to make presentations on how best to empower Zambians in the petroleum sub-sector. On 14th October, 2014, the ERB held a public hearing on the impasse between local and foreign transporters in order to afford both parties an opportunity to be heard before any affirmative action could be taken by the Government. Following the consultative process, the ERB developed new licensing guidelines to foster the participation of Zambians in the sub-sector. The guidelines are still under consideration by my ministry. 

Sir, there is a need for us to come up with a deliberate policy that will promote an increase in the number of Zambians participating in the petroleum sub-sector and benefiting from any business opportunity that arises therein. However, the foreign transporters equally need to be protected as they have already invested heavily in the country, following legitimate expectations founded on the current legal framework that does not prohibit their participation in the sub-sector. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, in an earlier response, the hon. Minister gave the impression that the Government had resolved the problem under the new arrangement by making sure that local and foreign transporters work in partnerships. Now, he is saying that the process of resolving the impasse is on-going. He has U-turned and is now making us believe that the problem has not been resolved and that foreign transporters should be protected. What is the actual position?

The Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, we are very capable of committing ourselves to protecting local transporters. I had a meeting with them and the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) on the night of Thursday, 5th March, 2915, during which we agreed on how to move forward. 

Mr Speaker, we said that, when licences for foreign transporters expire, we will ensure that the owners partner with local transporters before renewing them. To that effect, we are working on a statutory instrument (SI), whose draft should be on my table in the next fifteen days. All the stakeholders were agreeable to these measures and we will bring the SI to this august House before we end this sitting. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, prior to the impasse, local transporters had seemed to be comfortable with the status quo. What could have triggered the protests, especially in Ndola, which led to the impasse?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I think that “impasse” is a wrong word to use because there has never been an impasse. 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Yaluma: We are simply following the laid-down procedures in resolving the current issues. So far, the transporters have accepted our proposals and the Government has gone out of its way to protect the interest of the local transporters. We want to prioritise the participation of local transporters in the importation of petroleum products and have agreed with the traditional oil marketing companies (OMCs) like Engen, Vuma and Total that none of them will engage foreign transporters unless they fail to find local ones. I, therefore, do not think that there was any impasse because we have resolved many of the issues and many more are being resolved as we speak. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

KATANINO RESETTLEMENT SCHEME

407. Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Vice-President: 

(a)    what plans the Government had to develop Katanino Resettlement Scheme in Kapiri Mposhi District; and

(b)    when the plans would be implemented. 

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Bwalya): Mr Speaker, Katanino in Kapiri Mposhi is one of the latest resettlement schemes to be established in Zambia. The land for the scheme was given to the Government by Chief Nkole in a letter dated 16th May, 2008. By the end of December, 2008, the layout of the resettlement scheme had been developed. The plan included a school, a health post, 220 km of internal access roads, forty-two boreholes and, at least, one agricultural storage shed. 

Sir, the operationalisation of the Katanino Resettlement Scheme started in 2009. Notable milestones in implementation of the plan include the demarcation of 1,219 lots of land, allocation of all farm plots to individual households, issuing of more than 157 offer letters for title deeds, clearing of 62 km of internal access roads of which 20 km has been formed and the sinking of, at least, twelve boreholes. In the 2015 Budget, there is an allocation of K86,000 to the sinking of additional boreholes. 

Mr Speaker, the development of any resettlement scheme is a medium to long-term project because it is very costly. However, the Government has continued sourcing more funds to build the school, health post and agricultural storage shed, among other infrastructure, at the scheme service centre. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Musonda: Mr Speaker, what is prioritised in implementing resettlement scheme plans? 

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, resettlement schemes are developed under different circumstances. Therefore, the priorities differ according to the circumstances. Ideally, we are supposed to prioritise individual households, schools and health facilities. In the case of Katanino, we have not yet constructed the clinic and school because the area seems to be very close to existing schools, namely, Kashitu and Moobe school in the east of the scheme. As for clinics, there is Kashitu in the west and Nkole Rural Health Centre in the east. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Speaker: Next Question.

Mr Mutelo: I thank you, Mr Speaker, Question 408, which is not confusing.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I cannot see the latter part on the Order Paper.

Laughter 

FEEDING PROGRAMME FOR MITETE PUPILS

408. Mr Mutelo asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education whether the Government had any plans to introduce a feeding programme for pupils in Mitete District. 

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mushanga): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Revised Sixth National Development Plan (R-SNDP), plans to scale up the School Feeding Programme to reach 1 million learners this year. Currently, we are supporting 867,000 learners.

Sir, the ministry has plans to include Mitete and many other similar districts in the programme as the programme continues to expand.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the answer is gratifying. Liuwa and Kalabo, which neighbour Mitete, are covered by the programme, hence the need to include Mitete as you scale the programme up, and the sooner you do it, the better. We are grateful that you have included Mitete. However, when will the programme be implemented in the district? 

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, I have already said that the programme will be scaled up in 2015. Mitete will be considered before the end of this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, what plans has the Government put in place to make this programme sustainable? Just giving out food without growing it is not sustainable.

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, the programme is sustainable because it is old and we work with the World Food Programme (WFP).

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central): Mr Speaker, while we appreciate the efforts the Government is making to provide food to the children, why has the Government decided to instruct the schools to collect the food from the Office of the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) instead of delivering the food to individual schools? 

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, that is a very good question because it gives me the opportunity to explain the new programme that we are initiating with the WFP. 

Sir, very soon, we will stop giving food to the schools. Instead, we will start giving vouchers that the schools will use to purchase food. The idea is meant to empower the local communities.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, what measures has the Government put in place to ensure that this food, especially mealie meal, is used solely by the pupils? I have observed that, sometimes, when there is a funeral, the mealie meal is used.

Mr Lubinda: ‘Myu myu’?

Laughter 

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, that is a very rare case. I think it only happens in Nangoma.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter 

Mr Miyanda (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, in the event that the programme loses the support of the World Food Programme (WFP), how will the Government sustain it?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, that is a good question. I was recently visited by a delegation from the WFP and it assured the ministry that the organisation will not pull out, at least, not now.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda: In the event that it happened?

STAFFING AT KATETE COLLEGE OF AGRICULTURE 

409.    Mr Phiri (Mkaika) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    what the staff establishment of Katete College of Agriculture was;

(b)    how many vacancies there were at the college, as of December, 2014; and 

(c)    when all the vacancies would be filled.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Ng’onga): Mr Speaker, Katete College of Agricultural Marketing has not had an approved staff establishment since its establishment. The teaching and support staff at the college are attached from other departments in the Eastern and Muchinga provinces. Nevertheless, the ministry has made efforts to have a structure approved by the Public Service Management Development Division (MDD) under Cabinet Office, which is mandated to approve staff establishments. 

Sir, the vacancies at the college, if any, can only be identified once an approved staff establishment is put in place and Treasury authority has been granted.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker, when will that Government approve the structure? Further, does it have plans to upgrade the college? I ask this because the college has been offering certificate programmes since inception.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Member is aware, there is currently an employment freeze in the Civil Service. We are actively following up on our request to Cabinet Office for it to approve the establishment. We hope, that can be done soon after we lift the freeze. On the question of upgrading the college, it is the intention of the ministry to upgrade a number of colleges, not only in Katete, but also in other districts, for them to start offering diplomas programmes. However, we cannot, at this stage, state exactly when we shall do that because that also depends on Treasury approval. Suffice it for me to say that we are pursuing the matter with the Management Development Division (MDD) at Cabinet Office.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, since there seems to be no establishment, how does the ministry guarantee quality assurance at the college?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the college is run by well-qualified staff who are not necessarily employed directly by it, but by the ministry’s different departments. That is why we stated that staff are seconded from the Eastern and Muchinga provinces. For example, the principal was seconded by Mpika College of Agriculture. The person who ran the college between 1996 and 2006 is actually an eminent person among us in this House, but I do not want to embarrass him by identifying him. However, he is a well-qualified person. So, the assurance I can give is that we have qualified people at the college.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister, who is smiling so heartily, …

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: … tell us what has delayed the Management Development Division (MDD) in approving the establishment.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, my friend should have declared interest, but he decided not to. That is why I was smiling. Actually, he was the principal of the college and, during his tenure there, he made a number of presentations to the ministry for the establishment to be approved by the MDD. 

Sir, the reason that has been advanced to us for the non-approval of the establishment is that of Treasury authority and down-scaling in the Civil Service. The college happened to be one of the institutions that suffered because of those factors. However, I assure the hon. Member that the ministry is as concerned about the college as he is and is lobbying the MDD to approve the establishment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, in answering Hon. Lufuma’s question on quality assurance, the hon. Minister indicated that, because there are seconded staff who are qualified, quality can be assured. However, when we talk about the establishment, we are talking about the administrative structure, as a whole, for example, how many lecturers the institution needs. If there are two qualified staff when the college needs ten, can quality be assured? So, the question still remains: How do we assure quality at that college without a staff establishment?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the college has an organogram, with the principal, deputy principal, heads of departments, lecturers and support staff. What is not in place is an approved staff establishment. All the positions are occupied by qualified people seconded from other departments in the ministry. We are satisfied that the people at the college are qualified enough to assure quality training there. There is a difference between an establishment approved by the MDD and the positions currently existing at the college.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF YETA COMMUNITY SCHOOL

410. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when construction of Yeta Community School in Kalabo District would be completed;

(b)    whether the project was still within the contract time frame;

(c)    if not, what the problems were; and

(d)    what measures had been taken to facilitate the completion of the project.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, the construction of a 1 x 3 classroom block using the community mode at Yeta Community School in Kalabo District will be completed in June, 2015.

Sir, the project has overshot the contract time frame mainly due to poor community participation in contributing 25 per cent of the materials. 

Mr Speaker, the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) has taken up an active role in mobilising the community so that the 25 per cent materials contribution is made.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, it is known that Kalabo is on a sandy terrain and that it is very difficult for the community to contribute the required percentage of materials, namely, the stones. The main reasons the projects in the area are delaying are that the area has no stones and the people are too poor to contribute any money towards the project. Is the Government aware of this so that necessary changes can be made in terms of the contributions? I am sure, if that was done, the people in places like the Western, Luapula and Northern provinces would be helped.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, the ministry is seriously looking into this issue. I mentioned that the DEBS’s Office is trying to mobilise the community to help complete the project on time.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is indicating that he is confident that the community school will be built because he asked the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) to mobilise the community. However, the area hon. Member of Parliament is saying that there are no stones in the area. Where will the DEBS get the stones from? 

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, actually, what the hon. Members are saying is true. We have realised that projects in rural areas in which we have asked the communities to contribute materials have delayed. We are, therefore, modifying the programmes. We may only ask the communities to contribute labour. Even then, we will give 2 per cent of the total project budget to those who will work so that they buy food. We have engaged the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) to monitor the work even in places where there are no stones. 

I thank you, Sir.

UPGRADING OF BASIC SCHOOLS IN LUMEZI CONSTITUENCY

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    how many basic schools had been upgraded to secondary school status in Lumezi Parliamentary Constituency;

(b)    of the schools upgraded, how many had no new infrastructure constructed; and

(c)    why the schools at (b) had no new infrastructure.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, three basic schools in Lumezi Parliamentary Constituency, namely, Kazembe, Chasela and Chikomeni, were upgraded to day secondary school status in 2014. Currently, the upgraded secondary schools run from Grades 1 to 11.

Sir, in the 2014 Budget for the Eastern Province, the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education allocated funds for the construction of new infrastructure in all upgraded schools. As of November, 2014, the Government had disbursed K454,545 to each school as initial funding for the construction of a 1 x 3 classroom block and one staff house. These projects are currently being implemented by each of the three schools I have mentioned. Some of them have completed the procurement processes and commenced construction while others are yet to do so.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, when will the construction of the classroom blocks and staff houses, which have been given initial funding, be completed?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the K454,545 is actually an initial amount. The schools will receive more money. Let me say that these are the projects in which we asked the communities to participate and that we intend to pay them in order to encourage them to work. However, we cannot determine when the projects will be completed because the completion will depend on the commitment of the communities.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Belemu: Mr Speaker, from the previous statements, we were made to believe that the major consideration in determining the number of schools that can be upgraded is the cost of infrastructure. What is the policy of the ministry in the event that communities are able to mobilise their own funds for upgrading schools? The background to my question is that the Provincial Education Officer and the District Education Board Secretaries (DEDSs) are having difficulties with the guideline that the ministry has given on the number of schools that can be upgraded in each area even when some people or institutions show a willingness to meet the cost of upgrading.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, it is rare that somebody or an institution can be willing to sponsor the upgrading of even one school. However, as a Government, we decided to upgrade 220 basic schools, that is, twenty-two schools in each province, and the initial funding was disbursed to the schools in November, 2014. 

Sir, concerning the schools in Lumezi, which have already enrolled from Grades 1 to 11, it shows that they have enough infrastructure. I do not think that other upgraded schools in the country have learners in Grade 11 because they have to build new infrastructure. Therefore, I commend the people of Lumezi for fast-tracking the programme.

Mr I. Banda: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: Let me emphasise that our situation in the country with regard to senior secondary schools is very bad because our schools can only accommodate 37 per cent of the total number of potential pupils. That is why we are fast-tracking the programme and have given the initial capital of K454,545 to each school. So, I do not think that we would block anybody or any institution from assisting us or partnering with us in upgrading schools. If such a thing happened, it is a rare case and I ask the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala to engage us to determine why we may have refused such assistance. In some instances, we have to protect ourselves, as a Government, because we may not know where that somebody or institution that want to sponsor a project got the money from. Maybe, that is why we may have refused to partner with them. However, the hon. Member can come to our offices to inform us more on this rare case.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Chongwe.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I hope that the hon. Minister, who is normally very good at answering questions, can answer my question properly because it is a follow-up on the hon. Member for Mbabala’s question, which he has not answered properly.

Sir, in Chongwe District, we have three or four schools that are being upgraded from the basic level to the secondary school level, but the community would want more basic schools to be upgraded because of the long distances that the rural children have to walk to school. So, is it okay, for example, for us to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to assist in upgrading a school by building more classroom blocks or to get a donor to do that? Or does the Government have plans to eventually increase the number of schools to be upgraded?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the question is very clear. If that was the hon. Member of Parliament for Mbabala’s question and I did not answer it fully, my sincere apology. 

Sir, this Government has a deliberate policy to engage the communities. In fact, we encourage corporate social responsibility. If we are able to find people who can help us upgrade more basic schools into secondary schools, we would be very happy. The hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe is encouraged to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to help us solve this problem if she can.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

__________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Health and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Kasonde): Sir, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_________

The House adjourned at 1715 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 11th March, 2015.