DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FOURTH SESSION OF THE ELEVENTH ASSEMBLY

Wednesday, 11th March, 2015
The House met at 1430 hours
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

THE FUEL SUPPLY SITUATION IN THE COUNTRY
The Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, the country has, generally, been experiencing a stable supply of fuel in the last three years due to the contingent measures put in place by the Government. However, in the last few days, there has been an artificial disruption in the supply of fuel, particularly petrol. I am glad to inform this august House that in terms of the fuel supply situation, the country has adequate stock to meet the demand for both diesel and petrol. 

Sir, the House may wish to note that the disruptions in the supply of petrol are mainly concentrated in Lusaka and Kafue districts. From our assessment, these areas are not supposed to experience shortages as there is enough stock at our Lusaka Fuel Depot which feeds the southern circuit comprising the Eastern, Lusaka, Southern and Western provinces. The depot churns out, on average, 300,000 litres of petrol per day. The House may also wish to note that as of 9th March, 2015, 590,000 litres of petrol was uplifted by the Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) from the Lusaka Fuel Depot to feed the southern circuit. This is about double the daily requirements, and we see no reason for the continued shortages being experienced, especially here in Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, as at 1700 hours yesterday, the Lusaka Fuel Depot had received fifteen trucks which translates to about 525,000 litres of petrol for Lusaka alone. This fuel is available for sale to the OMCs. As at 0600 hours this morning, the opening balance for petrol was at 2,583,000 litres for uplifting by the OMCs, and forty-eight trucks carrying about 1.68 million litres of petrol were waiting to offload.  In addition, seventy trucks carrying an estimated 2.5 million litres of petrol are enroute from Dar-es-Salaam in to the country and are expected during the course of the week. Furthermore, a vessel carrying 90,000 metric tonnes of petroleum feedstock is in Dar-es-Salaam waiting to offload once all the formalities at the port are completed. The processing of this vessel is expected to contribute to the boost in the production of petrol and other products from Indeni Oil Refinery.

Mr Speaker, investigations by my ministry have revealed that some of the filling stations that do not have petrol are in this situation due to panic-buying which has been going on since Saturday, 7th March, 2015.  This has resulted in an increase in the daily uplifts of fuel from the Lusaka Fuel Depot, from 300,000 litres to 600,000 litres of petrol per day.  For example, vehicles which were moving on quarter tanks, now want to move on a full tank. In addition, indications are that some of the OMCs are, actually, picking up products from the Lusaka Fuel Depot, but are not delivering the full uplifts to their respective filling stations. 

Mr Speaker, in order to address this situation, the Government has taken the following measures:

(i)    the Government has carried out snap shots and surveys, and has directed the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) to bring to book those who may be unnecessarily holding the product;

(ii)    the Government has requested our suppliers of finished products to increase the number of trucks being delivered to the Lusaka Fuel depot; and 

(iii)    the Lusaka Fuel Depot management has been directed to allow flexibility in the operating hours to enable the required uplifts by the OMCs as well as allow extended offloading of  the trucks carrying imported fuel. 

Mr Speaker, as I conclude, I would like to put it on record that we have abundant diesel and petrol.

Mr Mbewe: Ah!

Mr Yaluma: Therefore, the Zambian people should not worry. 

Mr Speaker, allow me, also, to apologise to all the consumers for the inconvenience this shortage may have caused. I wish to assure the nation, through this august House, that the Government will ensure a stable supply of fuel at all times as coherent contingencies have been put in place. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development. 

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I must declare interest as I operate two filling stations. I am sure that motorists who are out there queuing for petrol will be very disturbed to hear that we have abundant stocks of the commodity, and that Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) are to blame for the shortage. 

Mr Speaker, the truth of the matter is that for the past one week, supply of petrol has been erratic and no OMC is holding the product because they want to sell just like the dealers. Can the hon. Minister be fair to us and to the motorists, and explain what caused the shortage or erratic supply which began last week. 

Can the hon. Minister explain as regards the relationship between the suppliers of the finished product, (especially petrol), and the Government, through the Tanzania Zambia Mafuta Pipeline (TAZAMA) instead of pushing the blame to the OMCs and the dealers.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I want to put it on record that I am equally aggrieved to see vehicles queuing up due to shortages of this nature. It annoys me just like any other Zambian. Be that as it may, I want to state that we have fuel available because I have seen it.  

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Mr Speaker: Order!

That is not the way we conduct the Business of the House. Hon. Minister, you may proceed. 

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I said that this shortage came to our knowledge on Monday, this week, when we had double the daily national consumption uplifted. Our daily national average consumption at the Lusaka Fuel Depot is 300,000 litres. On Monday this week, however, we had 690,000 litres uplifted. Indeni Refinery also doubled it up to 1.233 million litres when the national average is 1.2 million litres. So, we overshot by 600,000 litres which shows that we have fuel.  

Yesterday, I had an opportunity to do an on-the-spot check on some filling stations, including our depot. I personally interrogated the staff in front of the press, and there was fuel because trucks were offloading. I can assure this august House that at no single time have we run dry. Yesterday, we delivered 422,000 litres instead of the normal 300,000 litres at the Lusaka Fuel Depot. This increase shows that we have fuel. By the time we left the depot, the commodity was still being offloaded. 

Mr Speaker, I also went to Engen Filling Station. Disappointingly, the station had only been given 5,000 litres of petrol. This was a concern for me because the commodity had already run out. I asked the owner what he thought the problem was and his response was that they had only been given that many litres. I asked why he could not go to pick up the commodity from the depot and he said that it was a franchise and he had to get through Engen. 

We have had no problems with diesel. The problem has been petrol for Lusaka and Kafue, in the southern circuit which runs up to the Southern Province and Mongu and Chipata as well. Believe me, hon. Members, I am not trying to defend the situation. I am just trying to create hope for the Zambian people that fuel is available. What has caused the queues is some kind of message that has been circulating and has caused anxiety among users of this commodity who are drawing more than is necessary. We gave double the normal average consumption, and even today that is the status quo.   
Sir, maybe, someone should direct me to a filling station that is totally dry.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Yaluma: You are free to go to those facilities. In Buyantanshi, I took the press without concealing anything. To answer Hon. Namugala, yes, there could be a problem, but you can also help. We are saying that we have fuel, but we do not know why there is this shortage. 

Interruptions

Mr Yaluma: This is something that the Government is yet to establish. 

Interruptions

Mr Yaluma: Fuel is there at Indeni Refinery and the Lusaka Depot. Even as I speak, we have a huge number of trucks which have come to offload the comodity. We started with about 1.2 million litres this morning, so I can assure you that we have fuel. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: I will take questions from hon. Members of the following constituencies: Kamfinsa, Chembe, Kapiri Mposhi, Chadiza, Monze Central, Mumbwa and Mpongwe. 

Hon. Member for Kamfinsa, you may ask your question. 

Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, this is one of the worst situations to happen at this time.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chishimba: As I speak, I do not have fuel in my car …

Mr Livune: Shame!

Mr Chishimba: … due to these long queues. 

Hon. Minister, you indicated that you are putting up strong measures to ensure that these Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) creating artificial shortages of fuel are punished. I would like to find out if you have interacted with these OMCs, and if they have communicated their challenges to you so that the shortage, which we are witnessing here in Lusaka, can be addressed. 

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I would like to make myself clear. I did not say that the OMCs are holding fuel. What I said was that they may be holding fuel and we would have to find out …

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Yaluma: However, we do not have any proof. All I know is that there is panic-buying among motorists. You assume that fuel might be running out, and so you go and queue up for fuel without knowing why you are queuing up.

Mr Mwiimbu: Ah!

Mr Yaluma: However, I had a meeting with the OMCs this morning and we had a very fruitful discussion. I requested them, earnestly, to come forward when they see a problem arising from us so that it does not escalate. It was a fruitful meeting and we agreed on ways and means of working together to ensure that we stop this perceived shortage before the end of the week so that people can stop queuing up for fuel.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I agree with your point that we have abundant fuel in the country. However, in abundance of maize stock, the price of mealie-meal is high, and in the abundance of fuel, the country has a shortage.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes!

Mr Mbulakulima: Who is really calling the shots? If it is you, share with us what it means to be in control.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I am the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development so, bear with me, I call the shots.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi): Mr Speaker, what penalties are there regarding those Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) that may violate the operating standards?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, the punitive measures that are in place to address the OMCs found wanting vary. The worst is that their licence may be suspended or revoked permanently. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, this is, indeed, a sad situation. Can you confirm whether the problem of petrol we are experiencing was engineered by the opposition political parties or is it due to your own failure to control your ministry? 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, actually, it is none of the above.

Laughter 

Mr Yaluma: The market is responsible for what is happening to the product.

I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kambwili: Tom and Jerry.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I recall that when the Patriotic Front (PF) Government assumed office, they informed the nation, through the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development, that there will never be a shortage of fuel in the country, and that the energy electricity sector would not encounter problems to the extent of having load shedding. Despite these assurances, the shortage of fuel has ocurred under the PF Government …

Mr Livune: Shame!

Mr Mwiimbu: … and you have given us the reasons behind the purported shortage. Is it in your interest, as the Government, to continue monopolising the importation of fuel in the country whereby members of the public are being affected by the inertia and inefficiency? Why not liberalise and allow Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) to directly import while you only import strategic reserves for the country?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, we have not banned the importation of fuel by the OMCs. As I speak to you, there is A-1 jet fuel being imported by these companies. We have not restricted anything. When we see a crisis looming, and we know that we cannot sustain the market, then we are at liberty to extend an offer to these people to import fuel, but there is no ban.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, among the many reasons the hon. Minister has given for the shortage of petrol, in particular, can he explain if, perhaps, there has been a problem in payment between the Government and suppliers, hence, causing this shortage? This shortage is real as motorists are queuing up for this commodity.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, when we contract a supplier for fuel, whether it is for a one-year or a two-year period, we ensure that we have the capacity and ability to pay them. I do not know what you are talking about because the imports are coming into the country, and that is indicative of the fact that the Government is paying for the product.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, it was interesting to hear that the vehicles that were moving at quarter tank are now moving at full tank, hence, the shortage and lack of fuel at filling stations, and yet there is fuel at the supply depots. 

Sir, are the people who are holding the fuel and causing an artificial shortage anticipating an increase in the price of fuel so that they can sell it at a high cost at the appropriate time? 

Mr Livune: Hear, hear!

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, maybe, that is the intention of those guys, if there are any doing that, …

Mr Shakafuswa: Guys?

Mr Yaluma: ... but I would like to …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, withdraw the use of the word ‘guys’. It is unparliamentary.

Laughter 

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I apologise most sincerely for my wrong choice of words. I will not use the word again in this House.

Sir, I meant to say that there might be people who have such intentions, but I would like to make it clear that the Government is not looking at hiking the price of fuel for as long as the world market price for crude oil points towards a downward trend. Those people who may be holding on to fuel will have to sell it at a much cheaper price in the near future. 

I thank you, Sir.
 
Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I want to inform the hon. Minister that the shortage of fuel is not only in Lusaka, but also in Chongwe. He did not answer Hon. Namugala’s pertinent question properly. The way he answered did not, actually, give this situation confidence. It may just worsen it. Sometimes, the way we handle issues can build or destroy.

Mr Speaker, it is true that there is panic-buying of fuel. I got a text message a week ago telling me that there was going to be a fuel shortage, and that the price was going to increase.  I even recall asking my son to go and …

Mr Speaker: What is the question, hon. Member?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I am coming to the question now. Since the hon. Minister thinks that this panic-buying of fuel may have been caused by some information that is circulating, what is he doing to ensure that people do not panic? I am asking this because I am not inspired by his answers, and I feel that this may not help the situation. 

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Chongwe for helping me explain why people are rushing to queue up for fuel. One of the things the Government is doing is flood the fuel market. I did indicate the number of trucks that have been bringing fuel since Monday this week. I would also like to put it on record that there is a ship carrying crude oil which docked in Dar-es-Salaam and has since been cleared. This will pump in crude oil to Indeni Refinery. We want to ensure that we get all the outlets flooded with fuel through the OMCs. Today, in the meeting, I requested them to double or triple the uplift of fuel. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has insisted that there are enough diesel and petrol stocks in the country. Can he explain what he means by artificial shortage.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, let me give an example of breweries. If you own a pub and you do not find any beer at the breweries for restocking that is a shortage.  If your pub runs out of beer and you are able to restock when a number of bars are not able to that is what we call an artificial shortage.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, there is no fuel at Ody’s Filling Station which is just next to Parliament Buildings. In Kaoma, we are now entering the second week, and there is still no petrol. The truck which takes petrol to Kaoma is still marooned here in Lusaka because of a lack of fuel. What is the solution for the people of Kaoma, hon. Minister?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I will be of much help to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaoma Central. I do not know if that filling station is under a certain OMC or it is owned by an individual. After this sitting, I would like to ask the hon. Member to come with me so that we help that truck get fuel. 

I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that the fuel stocks are plenty, and yet, disappointingly, when you went to a certain service station, you were informed that it only got 5,000 litres. You even asked why it could not get more and the owner told you that it is what they were supplied with. Do you not think that where as you say the Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) have plenty of fuel, they are not supplying to the service stations where there is a shortage?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, yes, indeed, I was disappointed to see that only 5,000 litres was given to an Engen outlet. That is what prompted me to call out the OMCs this morning so that we could work out the problem. I have told them to let their trucks go in numbers to pick up fuel so that we can flood the market, and see a change in what we are experiencing at the moment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mpundu (Nchelenge): Mr Speaker, I pass. My question has been taken. 
Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, we have heard about trucks that are carrying a million litres of fuel on their way, and those that are already off-loading. Are you addressing yourself to the fundamental question around the three elements in this sector which are …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Mutati: … the financing component whether you will remain procurement manager and a regulator and the distribution component, both from the mechanical and transparent aspect? Are you addressing yourself to those three fundamental elements?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I think Hon. Mutati was a regulator as he has put it. He was a distributor and a procurer at the same time. Having talked about that if what you gave us was the best thing to go along with, I take it that it has been working very well.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, it is very baffling that we have plenty of stock, but have a fuel shortage in the country. You do not seem to know what is happening. May I know whether there is a connection between Indeni Oil Refinery not operating and the shortage of fuel that we are experiencing at the moment.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, firstly, we know that Indeni Oil Refinery is a very old asset which has outlived its lifespan. As such, we do not depend on it because it can collapse at any time, giving us problems. So, as we plan, we ensure that the contribution of Indeni is not of serious consequence to the disruption of fuel in the country. Regardless of this, it has been operating, and the day before yesterday, it pushed in about 100,000 litres of petrol into the chain. It did not pump in anything today because the feedstock is not enough. However, it will again start to process the feedstock which arrived in from Dar-es-Salaam. So, there has not been any impact from Indeni because we still have sufficient fuel.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The next round of questions will be from hon. Members for the following constitutiencies, Katombola, Kasempa, Senanga, Luena, Siavonga, Sinda, Keembe and Namwala.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is not too sure as to why there is this kind of situation in the country, yet many of us want him to be sure of what is happening. What is the Government going to do to stop the current panic-buying of fuel?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I think I already answered that. I am going to repeat the statement. I said that we were going to flood the market with the commodity, and that is what we are currently doing. Our efforts are centred on that, therefore, we will flood the market …

Mr Mucheleka interjected.

Mr Yaluma: … so that fuel is available for everyone.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, rightly, stated that there is no prohibition for Oil Marketing Companies (OMCs) that import fuel. However, I believe that it is prohibitive to them because of the costs involved. I would like to find out if they are considering that for the future. Perhaps, he can discuss it with his counterpart, the hon. Minister of Finance, to wave some taxes which will make the fuel imported by the OMCs cheaper or reasonably priced.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, that is a very pertinent comment, and I would like to say that we did that for jet fuel and can do the same if we experience a serious fuel shortage. However, as it is right now, a number of trucks carrying petrol are coming into the country. So, there is no need to alarm the nation of any further shortages of the commodity. Otherwise, I thank the hon. Member for that comment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he said that when he went to the depot, he found that tankers were drawing fuel. However, they have not delivered this fuel to the filling stations and we do not know where it has been hidden. Considering our porous borders, is there a possibility that this fuel could have found its way outside our borders where they feel they can fetch a higher price for it?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, we are very conscious, and I have drawn up data for all the uplifting done since 1st January up to 3rd March, 2015, and it shows that they have been uplifting normally. However, since we have observed fuel shortages at filling stations, this should lead us into some other avenue of investigations. I have all the data and can even move back to see what each OMC has been picking up and that can guide us to see the pattern and establish where things went wrong. So, we are doing exactly as the hon. Member has suggested, and if there is anything amiss, that data will tell us and, then, we can zoom in.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, a while ago, the hon. Minister indicated that he is in charge of the ministry. However, as he gives answers to the questions that have been posed, he seems to be on a fishing expedition …

Laughter

Mr Hamudulu: … for answers. Would you not agree with me that as at now, you do not have the correct reasons for this so-called artificial shortage, and that you probably need a little more time to get to the bottom of the matter, so that you can come back here with concrete answers? 

It is a humble request, Sir.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I think that I am doing the best I can. If the hon. Member or anybody else has more information with regard to this issue, they are welcome to inform us. However, I have just received information that a number of filling stations have fuel, and there are no queues. Maybe, the hon. Member is selective with his route and that is where most of these queues appear to be. I advise everyone to stretch out from the centre of Lusaka, and they will find fuel. It is a pity that the filling stations in Chongwe do not have fuel, maybe, due to reasons best known by the owners.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Mr L. J Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, I have just arrived from Sinda. Right now, fuel is being auctioned in plastic containers like tomatoes and other merchandise on the streets. There is a big problem.

Sir, Trafigura is one of the major suppliers of fuel in the county. This company has been very friendly with the previous Administration. Could the hon. Minister comment on assertions that the current Administration is trying to find new suppliers or renegotiate the deal so that their fundraising initiatives are enhanced.

Laughter

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I am equally lost because I do not know which previous or current administrations the hon. Member is referring to. The procurement is done as it is supposed to be done.

 I thank you, Sir.

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, there is definitely a problem because the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development went on a tour and found a crisis. Apart from that, some of the hon. Members who operate filling stations have told him that there is a problem. Should that not be reason enough to carry out an investigation so that this can be stopped and prevented from happening in the future.

 Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, like I said, based on the findings of last night, I called the OMCs and sat down with them, including the franchise Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of Hon. Namugala’s filling station. The main purpose of the meeting was to identify the problem and to look for ways to resolve it. 
Sir, I want to inform this House that we have made some progress, and we are still meeting. We also highlighted a few key would-be problems leading to the shortage of fuel. Otherwise, I would not have come here to make that statement to the House. We are on a very good track and by the end of this week, you will not see any queues, but something different from this side.

 I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I want the hon. Minister to clarify, to me as a motorist, what he means by ‘panic-buying’. I came in late because I was at the service station where everybody in that queue, including myself, who bought fuel for K100 were putting fuel directly into the tanks. I did not see anyone at that filling station putting fuel in containers. 

 Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, the definition of ‘panic-buying’ was tackled by Hon. Masebo. It is just that Hon. Lubezhi was not in the House then. Otherwise, she could have heard the right definition.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

         ________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

MODERN MARKETS IN MAGOYE AND KALEYA TOWNSHIPS

412. Mr Mulomba (Magoye) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to build modern markets in Magoye and Kaleya Townships in Magoye Parliamentary Constituency;

(b)    whether security lights would be installed at the two markets;

(c)    if so, when the projects would be implemented; and

(d)    what the cost of each project at (a) and (b) was.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Ching’imbu): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to construct modern markets in all the townships, including Magoye and Kaleya. However, these are high capital projects and will only be implemented when funds are available.

Sir, once funds are made available and the projects have been implemented, security lights will definitely be installed because they are part of the Bill of Quantities (BoQs).

Mr Speaker, I also wish to inform the House that the projects will be implemented when funds are made available. The estimated costs will be determined at design stage.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mulomba: Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Minister alluded to the fact that the projects will be implemented when the funds become available. I would like him to shed more light on when he thinks funds will be made available so that I can take that information to the people of Magoye. 

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, this means that funds could be made available even tomorrow, next month or next year. We are not too sure when, but we would love to see the works commence as soon as funds are made available.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I am extremely disappointed with the speculative answer that the hon. Minister has given this august House on such a very important question. 

Sir, can he explain why his Administration, the Patriotic Front Government (PF) promised the people of Magoye these projects during the Magoye By-election which the hon. Member, who has posed this question, won. The PF Government promised the marketers of Magoye a market before 2016.
Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, no one promised that the Government would build the markets before this question under consideration. Therefore, by saying that when funds are made available, it simply means that it could be any time when funds are released to the ministry, and that is the time the construction will commence.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, is the reason why this Government cannot build a modern market for the people of Magoye that the Patriotic Front (PF) lost in Magoye?  

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, if that is the perception, I would not go for it. The fact is that when funds are made available, the Government will construct these markets not only in Magoye, but even in other places.

 I thank you, Sir.

FUNDING PROJECTS IN KALABO DISTRICT

413. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Finance:

(a)     when adequate funds would be released for the following projects in Kalabo District:

(i)    Mapungu-Kalabo Road; 

(ii)    Kalabo Township roads; and 

(b)     what the time frame for the completion of each project was.

The Deputy Minister of Finance (Mr Mvunga): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the procurement and tendering process for these works have been completed and we are awaiting the signing of the contract. This will be done when we have allocated funding to these projects.

Sir, the House may wish to note that the Government’s current policy is to award a contract only when funds are available. This is in view of avoiding commitment by the Government to programmes or projects which are not supported by a budgetary allocation.

Mr Speaker, I further wish to assure the hon. Member that the release of funds for the above-mentioned projects is within our medium-term plans. Therefore, the funds will be made available within that period.

Sir, once the contract is signed, the projects are estimated to take fourteen months for completion.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker. 

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, it is very unfortunate that I did not get the response the hon. Minister gave for the first part of the question. The voice was not audible. 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, repeat the first part of the response.

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, the first part of my response is that the procurement and tendering process for these works have actually been concluded, and we are waiting for the contracts to be signed. However, this will be done once funds have been allocated to these projects and there is a reason for that.

Sir, the Government’s current policy is to award contracts only when funds are available. This is in view of avoiding commitment to programmes or projects which are not supported by a budgetary allocation. I hope that makes it clear.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mutelo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mutelo: Sir, I am sorry for disturbing my neighbour here. However, I just want to comment on the procedure of this House, and I stand to be corrected. Is it in order for a new hon. Member, to debate on the Floor of this House without giving a maiden speech, as the hon. Deputy Minister has done? Maybe, he made his maiden speech when I was not in the House. 

I seek your guidance, Sir. 

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

My ruling is that, indeed, the traditions and conventions of the House are that every new hon. Member ought to render a maiden speech. However, in the case of the hon. Deputy Minister, and granted the circumstances in which he finds himself, he may render that at a later stage.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, last year, the rehabilitation of township roads in Kalabo District was advertised in the national print media. The local government is aware of the contractor who is supposed to work on those roads. Contracts for these roads have already been signed. So, the issue of contracting does not apply. There is a letter from the Ministry of Finance advising the Ministry of Local Government and Housing not to send or instruct the contractor to go on site. Therefore, if the Government is committed to upgrading these roads to bituminous standards, when does it intend to give money to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing so that the contractor can be instructed to go on site?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, I think I already covered that point when I mentioned the medium-term plans, meaning that it is still within the budget allocation. All we have to do is release the funds. So, the project mentioned by the hon. Member is still within the budget time frame. It is not overdue. I also mentioned the fact that contracts have been finalised, and we are waiting for them to be signed. I hope that answers the hon. Member’s question.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, it is sad, indeed, that the signing of contracts by the Government has been the order of the day even when money is not available. We have also been affected by this trend in Chadiza. Contractors have been on site for more than two years without payment. Some of them have been using their own resources, but have not been refunded. Right now, in most areas, contractors are demobilising or leaving the sites. How is the Government going to handle that situation? Contracts have been signed, but the Government has failed to pay contractors. If they decide to go to court, will the Government not pay more money? 

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, I seek your guidance on whether I am responding to the question that was raised on the Order Paper or a new question.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the Government’s new policy is that no contract will be signed if money is not available.  The hon. Minister says that these projects are within the medium-term budget. At the same time, he says they will only be undertaken when funds are available. Suppose there is no money in the medium term, what assurance does he give to the hon. Member of Parliament of this area that these projects will be constructed?
Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, let me just clarify one point. When we talk about the medium term, it does not mean funds will be disbursed on the first day of this period. So, the mere fact that it is within the medium-term plans means that at an appropriate time, we will release funds for these projects.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mweetwa: Sir, are these projects in Kalabo ever going to take off, given that the contractors that were on site are demobilising or have disappeared? This is also the case in Choma. Why is the hon. Minister giving false hope to the hon. Members?

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, again, that sounds like a different question from what I am answering on. Nonetheless, all the projects that have been budgeted for within the medium-term plans will be eventually funded. We are just sorting out the timing for the release of funds.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about the signing of a contract for the Mapungu-Kalabo Road. I would like to bring it to his attention that this road has been earmarked for rehabilitation works by the Rural Roads Unit (RRU). It has been appearing for funding from 2012 to 2014, but the money has not been released. So, what contract is he talking about? Is the Government going to sign a contract with the RRU which has already been given the same job or is the hon. Minister misleading himself?

Interruptions 

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mvunga: Mr Speaker, we need to be mindful of the fact that we are already engaged in the process of tendering and procurement, and that gives a clear indication, on our part, that we are serious about funding these projects. Otherwise, we would not have done it in the first place. The timing for the release of funds is not a one plus one equals two situation. It is something that we have to prioritise amongst other projects. We are committed to funding these projects within the medium term.

Thank you, Mr Speaker:

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!   

UTILITY VEHICLES FOR POLICE POSTS IN RUFUNSA DISTRICT
414. Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Minister of Home Affairs when the following police posts in Rufunsa District would be provided with utility vehicles:

(a)    Luangwa Bridge;

(b)    Rufunsa Boma; and

(c)    Chinyunyu.
,
The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Col. Kaunda): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Zambia Police Service, will provide a motor vehicle to Luangwa Bridge once it purchases vehicles for operations.

 Sir, the Zambia Police has procured Fourteen Toyota Hilux pick-up trucks, and Rufunsa District has been allocated one.

Further, the Government will provide a motor vehicle to Chinyunyu Police Post once funds have been sourced for the procurement of motor vehicles for the police posts.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that Rufunsa District has been allocated one vehicle. Is it already at the station or it is just in the plan? Has it been allocated physically or not?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, as of this morning, the vehicle was on its way to Rufunsa.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, may I know which other districts have benefitted from the vehicles the hon. Minister is talking about?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, he can put a new question for that issue.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

ADMINISTRATIVE PROVISIONS FOR ITEMBA POLICE POST

415. Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    when installation of solar panels at Itemba Police Post and Staff houses in Milenge District would commence; and

(b)    when a motor vehicle would be provided to the police post.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, the installation of solar panels at Itemba Police Post and Staff houses in Milenge District will commence this year 2015, since the funds for the two projects have been provided for in the 2015 Budget. Commencement of the installation of solar panels will start as soon as the funds are released by the Treasury. A total of K30,000 has been provided for in the 2015 Budget for this exercise.

Sir, the Government will provide a motor vehicle to Itemba Police Post once funds for the procurement of motor vehicles for police posts have been sourced.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, although I did not hear anything, I will try to guess.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Where were you?

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, he was moving at a very supersonic speed in his answer.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, this is the second time that answer for solar panels has been given, hon. young Deputy Minister. Which …

Ms Sayifwanda: Young?

Mr Mbulakulima: … institution is going to enforce this so that the people of Milenge can also enjoy life at the end of the day? Which institution is going to enforce this good answer which you are almost giving me?

Mr Livune: Young Minister!

Mr Speaker: Please, refer to him as hon. Minister. That is sufficient.

Col. Kaunda: Sir, the Ministry of Home Affairs will commence the project.

I thank you, Sir.

Next time, do not sleep.

Laughter

MODERN MARKET IN LUNDAZI DISTRICT

416. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to construct a modern market in Lundazi; and

(b)    if so, when the plans would be implemented.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that it is the Government’s policy to construct markets in all the districts, including Lundazi. However, the district council is advised to plan for modern markets and to submit their request for support, containing designs and priced Bill of Quantities (BoQs) to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing for consideration, subject to the availability of funds.

Sir, these are high capital projects and, at the moment, funds are not available. They will only be implemented when funds are made available.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I did not get the answer properly from the hon. Minister. I did not even hear what he talked about.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, continue.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, what do you mean when you say that when funds are available, and, at the moment, there are no funds? Can you be exact in answering the question because you said it in your own words that there are no funds. What did you mean, hon. Minister?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the Government has not gone to sleep.

Mr Livune: Ah!

Mr N. Banda: We are sourcing funds for all the projects that are in our plans to be implemented. When the funds are made available, we will implement them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has advised that plans should be prepared by local councils and sent to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing for them to prepare for the construction of a modern market. May I know when you are going to build even one market since you seem to have problems in sourcing funds? We know that a lot of councils have submitted plans, including Kalomo. When are you going to source for the funds?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member asking the question has been in this House for a very long time. The Ministry of Local Government and Housing has a budget for the construction of markets which are on-going, so, it is not correct to indicate that we have not done any projects. There are projects that are currently on-going, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Where?

Mr N. Banda: … and those that we have received requests for will be considered when more money is available. 

Mr Speaker, these are high capital projects. It must be understood clearly. We have so many requests countrywide for the construction of modern markets, and some are on-going and are yet to be completed. Whilst we are completing some, others are coming on board. 

Mr Speaker, there are new districts that have been created, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr N. Banda: … all that is increasing on the demand for modern markets. The Government is awake and working on making funds available for all these projects.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

INFRASTRUCTURE AT SILANGWA BASIC SCHOOL

417. Mr Chitafu (Kafulafuta) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education when the construction of additional infrastructure at Silangwa Basic School in Kafulafuta Parliamentary Constituency, which was upgraded to secondary school, would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mushanga): Mr Speaker, the Government will not construct secondary school infrastructure at Silangwa Basic School because it is not one of the schools selected for upgrading into a secondary school.

However, the House and the hon. Member of Parliament for Kafulafuta may wish to note that the Government, through the education provincial leadership on the Copperbelt, has selected Lisomona and Fiwale basic schools for upgrading into secondary schools in Kafulafuta District of the province.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chitafu: Mr Speaker, I am a bit surprised by that answer because, according to the information I have, Silangwa Basic School was one of the schools which was upgraded to secondary level. Hon. Minister, what do you mean that it was not selected when the information on the ground is that it is one of the schools which were upgraded?

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, the information we have from the provincial administration and the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) is that the two schools which were selected from your district are Lisomona and Fiwale. The school in question is not one of them. I have presented the correct position to the House.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mpundu: Hear, hear!

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, would it not be prudent for the hon. Minister to assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Kafulafuta that he will go back to find out the truth on the ground because the hon. Member is talking on that basis?
Mr Speaker: I have a bit of difficulty in allowing the hon. Minister to answer that question, and I will explain why. You put a question to the hon. Minister so that you have an official position and he responded. The hon. Member said that he was surprised because he had different information on the ground. I gave the hon. Minister the opportunity to clarify and he maintained the position. Why should we go on with this issue?

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the party in Government has assured us that there is a need to upgrade various basic schools into secondary schools in its new arrangement of the education structure. Now that there are only two schools in Kafulafuta earmarked for upgrading, would you not check whether there could be a need for a third secondary school.

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalomo Central to know that the Government has chosen 220 schools to be upgraded to secondary schools. Each province will have twenty-two basic schools upgraded. On the Copperbelt, twenty-two schools were selected. Our research shows that Silangwa in Kafulafuta is not one of the selected schools.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, initially, we were told that the first round of upgrades will encompass 220 basic schools. I would like the hon. Minister to inform us when his Government will take up the second round of upgrading schools. 

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, unless we are done with the first 220, we cannot embark on new projects. The hon. Minister of Finance has been very clear on this aspect. There is no need for us to take up new projects when we cannot finish the old ones. We will allow ourselves time to complete the first 220 schools. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

            TEACHERS DEPLOYED TO MITETE DISTRICT

418. Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education how many teachers were deployed to Mitete District in 2014.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, there were no teachers deployed to Mitete District in 2014, but it is anticipated that it will benefit from the teachers to be recruited this year as our ministry has been granted authority to undertake recruitment of 5,000 teachers.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, that is the correct situation. No single teacher was deployed to Mitete District. With the hope that teachers will be recruited this year, how many of them do you promise to deploy to Mitete, bo Minister?

Mr Speaker: Please, address him properly. Can you withdraw the unofficial language you are employing?

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I am sorry. I replace bo Minister with Mr Minister or hon. Minister.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: No teacher has been sent to Mitete. Not even to replace any vacancy. Meanwhile, we have teachers …

Mr Speaker: You have already done what I wanted you to do.

Laughter

Mr Mutelo: Thank you very much, Sir. Bo is hon. Minister.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I do not need any translation. I want you to restrict yourself to the official language. That is all.
Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, our ministry already assured the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West that this year, 5,000 teachers will be recruited, and Mitete District is one of the districts to benefit from this recruitment. Once the process starts, there is hope that teachers will be sent to Mitete District.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, Mitete is one of the newest districts that has been added to the list of districts in this country, and one would have expected it to be a priority in the deployment of teachers to ensure that some of our children catch up with the rest of their colleagues in the country. May I find out from the hon. Minister the reason it was left out in the previous years.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the situation concerning teachers at the moment is very bad, particularly, in the rural areas. I understand and feel for you because the situation is the same in Mwandi Constituency. However, I would like to state that this hardworking Government, …

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
    
Dr Kaingu: … my Government, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Dr Kaingu: ... yes, my Government, has authorised the recruitment of 5,000 teachers. Once we have recruited the 5,000 teachers, we will give our Chief Executive Officer (CEO), the Permanent Secretary, the authority to distribute the teachers. We will not do it on our own, but will involve the Provincial Education Officers (PEOs) and the District Education Board Secretary (DEBS) Office. Therefore, if the local leadership, which is the DEBS, thinks that the school in question is in dire need of teachers, it will probably be the first one to be allocated teachers.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, what is the shortfall for Mitete District in terms of the number of teachers?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I would not know at this time but, definitely, there is a shortfall. That is why the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West posed this question. I have already emphasised that the problem of shortage of teachers in the country is real. That is why we are recruiting 5,000 teachers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, since it is known that the Government is going to recruit 5,000 teachers, and that Mitete requires trained staff, how many teachers from that 5,000 have been set aside for Mitete?

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members, let us follow these responses very closely. This is why I move on because I can see repetition. We are going round in circles and so on. The hon. Minister has just finished explaining that the Chief Executive Officer (CEO) in the ministry, who is the Permanent Secretary, will sit down to determine that. You want him to go over the question again, and you want Mr Speaker to allow these questions. 

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that the ministry will recruit about 5,000 teachers, and I am sure that these teachers will be posted across the country. Hon. Minister, are you aware that when these teachers are sent to the rural areas, more than half of them come back to the city eventually? There are no teachers in the rural areas. If you are aware of this, what measures have you put in place to make sure that these teachers stay in the rural areas?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I agree with you. We have a problem. Our teachers do not seem to want to stay in the rural areas. However, this is a bonus answer I am giving you. The question on the Order Paper was about Mitete, but you have generalised the situation. Modalities are being worked out to see to it that our teachers stay in rural areas. All of us know about this problem. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

I think that the question was what measures you are going to take to either arrest or reverse this situation.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for your guidance. I was very clear that I am unable to give the reason at the moment. However, we are aware that teachers do not stay in rural areas for a long time. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, if you are not able to indicate the measures just advise your colleagues that as at now, you have not contrived any measures, you will look at them and so on.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

The mischief has been identified, but the problem is what is the cure? Are you able to indicate the cure? You are not obliged to say it if you do not have a strategy in place.

Dr Kalila: He must resign!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Dr Kaingu: I will not resign, I assure you of that.
Mr Speaker: Order!

You are free to say so.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I have clearly stated that we are looking into the modalities of why our teachers are not staying in rural areas. As far as I am concerned, that is clear.  I feel that this is a bonus answer but, in the real sense, we are looking into the modalities of why our teachers do not seem to stay in the rural areas for a long time. I am not able to provide them now. It is a problem; that much we know. 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order!

The matter is being investigated.

Laughter

CLASSROOM BLOCKS AT LUPO AND SALAO PRIMARY SCHOOLS

419. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when construction of 1 x 3 classroom blocks at Lupo and Salao primary schools in Kalabo District would be completed;

(b)    whether the two projects were within their contract time frame for completion of the projects;

(c)    what measures had been taken to ensure timely completion of the projects;

(d)    whether the Government was satisfied with the performance of the contractors; and 

(e)    what the consequences of over running the contract period  were.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, the projects referred to here are Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects, and as such they are controlled and managed by Kalabo District Council and the area hon. Member of Parliament. 

Mr Speaker, as a ministry, we want to commend the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central for spear-heading such projects using the CDF. If the hon. Member needs help from the ministry, I want to encourage him to get in touch with the DEBS Office or the Provincial Education Office (PEO) so that we see how we can work together to complete the project. Hon. Member, job well done for using the CDF, and if all hon. Members of Parliament were to set aside a bit of money to complete some of these projects, then we would move forward, especially when it comes to education.

I thank you, Sir. 

REHABILITATION WORKS AT MILENGE TRADES

420. Mr Mbulakulima asked the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when rehabilitation works at Milenge Trades Training Institute which have stalled would resume;

(b)    what had caused the delay in resuming the works;

(c)    what measures had been taken to expedite the works; and 

(d)    what the rescheduled time frame for the completion of the project was.

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, works on the construction of Milenge Trades Training Institute are on hold as the contract between the Government and the contractor was terminated for non-performance, and the contractor has since contested the termination. 

Mr Speaker, the case is in court, and many times, you have guided that when a case is in the courts of law, we cannot proceed to give more details.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I am not satisfied with that answer. As much as I appreciate the fact that this matter is in court, what will I tell the people of Milenge who are suffering so much? Should they be kept in the dark or are you making any effort to dispose of this matter? 

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the managing director of my party, ... 

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: … the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe, whose task is very simple. He should tell the people in the constituency that the case is in court. 

I thank you, Sir. 

IVORY STORED AT ZAWA WAREHOUSES IN CHILANGA

421. Mr I. Banda asked the Minister of Tourism and Art how many tonnes of ivory were stored at the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) warehouses in Chilanga during the following periods:

(a)    September 2009 to September 2010; and

(b)    October 2010 to December 2014

The Deputy Minister of Tourism and Art (Mr P. Ngoma): Mr Speaker, my relative, Mr I. Banda, the hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi Constituency …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, just address him as he is. I am not privy to these relations here. 

Laughter 

Mr P. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that between September 2009 and September 2010, the Government, through the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA), stored a total of 8,585 ivory pieces weighing 34.791 tonnes. 

As for the period October 2010 to December 2014, the Government, through ZAWA, stored a total of 11,022 ivory pieces weighing 46.35 tonnes. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether after these tonnes of ivory are disposed of, money will trickle down to game management areas (GMAs) where we have community resource boards (CRBs) so that communities can benefit. 

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, we have no intentions of selling the ivory that we have in storage as at now. There are restrictions since Zambia is a signatory to the Convention on the Illegal Trade of Endangered Species (CITES), and our elephants are classified as endangered species. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalila: Mr Speaker, I just want to know the exact source of this ivory. Is it as a result of poaching or cropping by the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA)? If it is poaching, what is the ministry doing about it because I have noted that the tonnes in storage are increasing and not reducing?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, most of the elephants die of natural causes. Some are gunned down by the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) due to animal and human problems, and others are poached. These are some of the causes. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Mutelo indicated. 

Laughter 

Hon. Members: Ah, iwe, ikalafye!

Mr Mutelo remained standing. 

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Lukulu West, you may ask your question. 

Mutelo remained silent. 

Mr Mwale: Ask kaili, baitana!

Mr Mutelo: Thank you, Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours. 

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, of course …

Laughter 

Mr Mutelo: … before Business was suspended, I had wanted to ask this question. 

Hon. Members: Ask!

Mr Mutelo: Sir, the hon. Minister said that we are signatories to the Convention on Illegal Trade of Endangered Species (CITES). We have ivory which is accumulating, but because of the agreement, we cannot do anything with it. What will eventually happen to this resource from which we can draw some money? What will happen? That is and was my question.  

Mr Speaker: It still is a question. 

Hon. Minister of Tourism and Art, you may respond. 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, there are restrictions. Once a country is a signatory to CITES, it must abide by the rules. A colleague of mine, a former Minister of Tourism,  told me about a country which felt that it could not sit on so much ivory so, it decided to pull out of the agreement to sell the ivory to China. The whole world, including the United States of America (USA) and the United Kingdom (UK), rose against it. So, it is not possible as long as we are signatories to this convention. 

Mr Speaker, I thank you. 

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister be kind enough to tell us the estimated value of this ivory. 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the estimated value of the ivory stored at ZAWA in Chilanga is about US$9.2 million. 

I thank you, Sir. 

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

I will take questions in the following order: hon. Member for Keembe, hon. Member for Gwembe and hon. Member for Kabompo West. 

Hon. Member for Keembe, you may ask your question. 

Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether or not there is a clause in the convention that when need be and when a situation arises in an emergency, we can ask the organisation to allow us to sell some of the ivory.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I do not know of any clause to that effect. There could be, but I am trying to be frank by saying that I do not know whether there is a clause or not. All I know is that we have a convention coming next year, 2015, in South Africa and, maybe, such issues can be tabled and discussed at that convention.

I thank you, Sir. 

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to open a factory that makes bangles for sale.

Laughter 

Mr Ntundu: Now that this ivory cannot be sold, can I ask that it be donated to me. Is a donation also restricted?

Laughter 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, donations are not restricted. We are on record as having donated ivory tasks to some chiefs. For example, the Litunga received two pieces of ivory, Chief Puta received two and Paramount Chief Chitimukulu received five for the purposes of tradition. As you are aware, the tradition of the Bemba requires that the chief is buried with ivory.

I thank you, Sir. 

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I appreciate what the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art is going through. However, within the convention, will Zambia continue to pursue the proposal to have the elephant down-listed from Appendix 1 to Appendix II so as to allow sustainable utilisation of elephant products? I would like to find this out, especially that the hon. Minister has indicated that the next conference of parties is next year in South Africa. Is Zambia, together with other African countries, continuing to pursue the proposal to down list the elephant? 

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, indeed, animals classified in Appendix 1 are endangered species. We will, at the next convention, try to negotiate and see to it that the Zambian elephant is put in Appendix II where we can be able to sell the tusks that we have.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, are you lobbying support from other countries as you do that because you may not succeed without lobbying?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, you cannot go in without lobbying other countries. I know that it will be a difficult battle which we might not even win, but it is worth trying because we have quite a number of tusks. When I saw that this question was coming, I took a tour of ZAWA, and was shocked to find piles of elephant tusks.

I thank you, Sir. 

__________

MOTION

        ADJOURNMENT 

The Minister of Health and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to. 
                    __________

The House adjourned at 1639 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 13th March, 2015. 

__________