Debates - Wednesday, 23rd September, 2015.

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Wednesday, 23rd September, 2015

The House met at 1400 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, in accordance with the provisions of Standing Order No. 131, the Standing Orders Committee has appointed the following hon. Members to serve on the various Sessional Committees for the Fifth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly:

Committee on Privileges, Absences and Support Services (8)

The Hon. Deputy Speaker, Mr M. D. Lungu, MP, Chairperson
The hon. Minister of Justice, Dr N. Simbyakula, MP
The hon. Chief Whip and Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications, Mr Y. D. Mukanga, MP
Mr J. J. Mwiimbu, MP
Mr G. Namulambe, MP
Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP
Mr R. P. Mtolo, MP
Ms S. Sayifwanda, MP

Reforms and Modernisation Committee (10)

The hon. Minister of Finance, Mr A. B. Chikwanda, MP
The hon. Minister of Justice, Dr N. Simbyakula, MP
The hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, Dr J. T. N. Phiri, MP
The Hon. Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House, Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC., MP
Mr S. Katuka, MP
Lt-Gen. Bishop R. Shikapwasha, MP
Mr I. K. Banda, MP
Dr E. C. Lungu, MP
Mrs M. C. Mazoka, MP
Mr L. S. Kazabu, MP
Committee on Government Assurances (8)
Mr M. Habeenzu, MP
Mr L. A. Lufuma, MP
Prof. G. Lungwangwa, MP
Mr M. Z. J. Katambo, MP
Mr M. Ndalamei, MP
Ms P. Mulasikwanda, MP
Ms V. Kalima, MP
Mr L. Chabala, MP

Committee on Delegated Legislation (8)
Mr I. K. Banda, MP
Ms M. Lubezhi, MP
Mr J. J. Mwiimbu, MP
Mr A. Sichula, MP
Mr K. Konga, MP
Mr A. D. Mbewe, MP
Mr M. Mutelo, MP
Mr M. Z. J. Katambo, MP

Committee on Estimates (8)
Mr H. H. Hamududu, MP
Mr E. M. Sing’ombe, MP
Mr R. P. Mtolo, MP
Dr G. L. Scott, MP
Mr R. L. Mpundu, MP
Mr B. M. Ntundu, MP
Mrs I. Mphande, MP
Mr P. Phiri, MP

Committee on Local Governance, Housing and Chiefs’ Affairs (8)

Mr A. D. Mbewe, MP
Mr B. Hamusonde, MP
Mr M. Ndalamei, MP
Mrs M. C. Mazoka, MP
Mr H. S. Chansa, MP
Mr L. Sichalwe, MP
Mr L. J. Ngoma, MP
Mr L. S. Kazabu, MP

Committee on Economic Affairs, Energy and Labour (8)
Mr E. K. Belemu, MP
Mr F. Mutati, MP
Mr K. Pande, MP
Mr D. Livune, MP
Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP
Mr N. Chilangwa, MP
Mr W. C. Simuusa, MP
Ms P. Mulasikwanda, MP

The composition of other Committees will be announced tomorrow. After I have completed announcing the composition of all the Committees and the Public Accounts Committee has been approved by this House, if any hon. Member finds that he/she does not belong to any Committee, he/she should inform the Office of the Clerk accordingly.

Thank you.




11.     Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to encourage value-addition industries for agricultural products;

(b)    if so, what the plans were; and

(c)    what incentives, if any, had been provided to entrepreneurs who seek to venture into value-addition projects.

The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Sampa): Mr Speaker, the Government has always emphasised the importance of value addition not only for agricultural produce, but also raw materials that require value addition. This is reflected in key national documents such as National Development Plans and the Industrialisation and Job Creation Strategy Paper which identifies agriculture as one of the priority sectors where value addition should be emphasised.

Mr Speaker, in order to encourage value addition industries for agricultural products, the Government has implemented the following measures:

(i)    providing fiscal and non-fiscal incentives that encourage export-oriented agro processing;

(ii)    supporting the establishment of multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs), industrial parks, and business incubation centres where value addition to agricultural produce is encouraged;

(iii)    supporting the development of sector-specific skills and training schemes through the provision of special incentives; and

(iv)    targeting programmes supported by the Citizens Economic Empowerment Fund and activities dealing with value addition to farm produce.

Mr Speaker, the incentives that the Government provides to entrepreneurs who want to venture into value addition projects include:

(i)    reduction of the Value Added Tax (VAT) rate for investors in tax-free zones;

(ii)    duty free importation on most capital equipment for the mining and agriculture sectors, including manufacturers operating in MFEZs, industrial parks and rural enterprises;

(iii)    income tax exemption for a period of five years for manufacturers operating in MFEZs, industrial parks and rural enterprises; and
(iv)    corporation tax at 10 per cent on income from fertiliser production to support increased agricultural production which should feed into the agro-processing and value addition.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, in order to strengthen the kwacha, we are supposed to export more of what we produce. Why is it that we do not protect industries that manufacture cooking oil in Zambia? Instead, we allow the importation of cooking oil.

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, that policy was reversed. The policy now supports local industries that produce cooking oil. What is allowed to be imported into Zambia is crude oil for processing into finished products because, sometimes, companies that manufacture cooking oil run out of raw materials and have to import crude oil to process into finished products. At the moment, we are not allowing the importation of cooking oil.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, as outlined by the hon. Minister in his response, the incentives are quite attractive. However, what measures have been put in place to make the Zambian entrepreneurs aware of the incentives? Some incentives only apply to holders of investment licences. Does this also apply to every entrepreneur?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, we are carrying out campaigns at district level through community radio stations to inform farmers about the incentives, especially those who want to invest in processing. It is true that the minimum investment that is allowed in multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs) is US$5,000, which is quite high for Zambians. Therefore, the incentives for small-scale local investors are mostly found at the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) which has funding and incentives for entrepreneurs who intend to process agricultural produce. The CEEC is investing in various districts with specific produce in order to create industries that can process agricultural produce. For example, we have invested in machinery for value addition in mango in Mangango. The CEEC is investing in equipment for beef value addition in Nalolo, Kalomo, Namwala, Zimba and Itezhi-tezhi.

Sir, the CEEC has also invested in equipment and machinery for value addition in cotton in Mumbwa, Sinda, Vubwi, Pemba and Sinazongwe.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, value addition is a proven policy intervention which has worked very well. In fact, one of the successes of the Asian Tigers is attributed to their consistency in the area of value addition. However, in Zambia, in spite of this policy measure, we continue to see a large amount of agricultural finished products being imported. This has been a source of concern which could also mean that, perhaps, the policy is not working and that there is low penetration into the industry, particularly among Zambian entrepreneurs.

Sir, what is the problem? Why do we not see results despite this policy measure?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, the problem has been capital. Some areas need high capital investment. I will give an example of the milling industry. Setting up a milling plant requires a lot of infrastructure, but the Government has gone a step further by investing in milling plants. We want to get thirteen solar milling plants into maize-producing areas and get the locals involved in value addition. Through value addition, we can then export and get the foreign exchange that we need.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa rose from his seat.

Mr Speaker: I am following a list.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, when we visited one of the multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs), we learnt that the entry point in terms of money that is put upfront is very high. As a result, it is difficult for a Zambian to penetrate the industry. Could you not lower the threshold or put some measures in place that can enable Zambians to penetrate the industry?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, in conjunction with other ministries, we are looking at how we can get Zambians to be real investors in multi-facility economic zones. Why is it that there are only foreign investors? That is a good submission and we are looking into it. We hope this can be implemented this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned some incentives, including income tax exemption for enterprises that are in multi-facility economic zones (MFEZs).

Sir, many of the indigenous entrepreneurs are already established and are operating outside the MFEZs. The critical problem they have is that of access to affordable credit or financing. We now have a situation where we are importing chips when a number of our people are growing potatoes. What special intervention is the ministry putting in place to ensure that there is value addition to products such as potatoes so that a country like ours does not import frozen chips?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, it is not acceptable for this Government to import processed foodstuffs such as chips and pies as is the situation. We have liaised with our colleagues in the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock so that where they need to give authority to import processed foodstuffs, chips should not be one of them. We have also gone further to engage the super markets that are selling processed chips to stop bringing in processed foodstuffs. Where there is a need, as we have always said, regulation is the last resort. We are determined to ensure that processed foodstuffs in all our stores are from Zambian farmers.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, co-operatives are business entities. On Friday, 18th September, 2015, the President told the House that co-operatives had been moved to the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. When this happens, most of the co-operatives will be interested in getting into value-addition businesses. When the co-operatives fall under the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry, they will be given special preference in accessing money. If you tell them to go to the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC), most of them will not be able to provide the required collateral. How are you going to treat co-operatives that are business entities when they come under your ministry?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, these will not be looked at as agriculture and food produce co-operatives. Co-operatives are about coming together as entrepreneurs. They are about people putting hands together so that they can produce. There is a saying which states that one finger cannot pick a louse from the head.


Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, one needs to use two fingers to pick a louse from the head.

What I am saying is that when you join hands, you will be able to do a lot of things unlike when you are alone. In this context, as a ministry, we shall ensure that people are able to come together as co-operatives and form a bank, money lending entity or transport industry. The question again is: Where will the finance come from? Is it from the CEEC or it will be budgeted for? As the ministry, we have started consulting both locally and worldwide to see where the best practice of co-operatives has produced results. For instance, Rabo Bank that we have here is a co-operative from the Netherlands. I know that we can do better. We have started consulting and within the next few weeks, the hon. Minister will come up with a firm statement on that subject.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, we were told that Zambia exported maize to Zimbabwe and other countries this year. Do you not think that it was going to be appropriate that instead of us selling maize, we add value to it by processing it into animal feed to export to Botswana? This was going to give us more money than what we are being paid for a bag of maize.

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member that there is more to be gained by exporting a processed and packaged product although there is also the issue of timing. We need the money now. Processing takes a bit of time because it is medium term. We have plenty of maize in our silos, but we need money in our resource envelope needs. Going forward, we shall look into exporting the maize that is processed.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, among the many factors that the hon. Minister has mentioned regarding low participation in value addition by entrepreneurs is financing. Could the ministry consider setting up a fund under the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) to guarantee the entrepreneurs who can partner with investors so that each investor who comes is guaranteed to partner with an indigenous Zambian through financing from the ministry.

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, the concept the hon. Member is talking about is very good. I know that the concept has already taken effect under the Road Development Agency (RDA) where locals should have a certain percentage of shares in a company before it is awarded a road contract. We are working towards introducing this under the CEEC soon.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, my question relates to what the hon. Member for Katuba said. What is the policy direction vis-à-vis the export of maize in terms of value addition? What direction are you taking?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, maize is a sensitive product for obvious reasons. Every year, the food security level is 500 metric tonnes. So, we want to export any excess but, before we do that, we want it processed. I mentioned earlier that there is huge investment in thirteen solar milling plants in various parts of the country. From the source where the maize is stored, instead of transporting it to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), we want it processed there so that we can start exporting mealie-meal to the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC). That is the concept that this Government would like to adopt, and it is in a hurry to do that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Mr Speaker, in the past four years, we have heard many good promises from the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, but what is happening on the ground is totally different. Can the hon. Minister give examples of Zambians who own companies that the Government has helped in value addition.

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, I do not know which ground the hon. Member is talking about. Speaking for Matero, the ground is very fertile and the people are very happy with the PF.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa: Most of my colleagues will agree with me that the people are very happy with the PF. I will ask the hon. Minister of Justice to apprise me with what is going on in Muchinga.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, that being said, ...

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, I am lost when you refer to the Minister of Justice.


Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, the question is unrelated to the principal question. I would urge the hon. Member to file in a written question so that we can conduct research and come back with names of Zambians who have benefited from the value-addition concept and are making progress as entrepreneurs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I assumed the hon. Minister of Justice was one such entrepreneur.


Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, I am concerned about value addition for cotton because most of it is exported half processed. In the Eastern Province, we produce a lot of cotton. When is the Government going to set up textile industries in Chipata that can produce chitenge fabric and blankets?

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mrs Mwanakatwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that pertinent question. The value chain for cotton is wanting in Zambia. As such, it is one of the value-addition segments that we are looking at in great detail. For that reason, the Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) has funded one ginnery in Mumbwa which will be opened soon. I know that it is not in Chipata, but that is just a start. We are concerned that farmers are getting little money from the cotton. So, we want to introduce value addition to cotton and ensure that we produce the chitenge, blanket and cotton that we require. Of course, we need to be mindful of the fact that there are certain factors such as salaula, which has plugged the gap, that are hindering the growth of the cotton sector in this country.

Mr Speaker: What does that mean?


Mr Konga: Second-hand clothes.

Mrs Mwanakatwe: It means second-hand clothes. This has ‘killed’ the cotton industry. So, we need to ensure that we build capacity in that area so that our people can afford the cotton that they require to make different attires.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, first of all, as National Secretary for the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), let me assure the hon. Member for Matero that we shall ring-fence Muchinga Constituency completely.


Mr Speaker: Are we still on the question or some other subject which the Speaker is not privy to?


Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister and his Deputy are not only widely read but also travelled. The concept of protecting industries, especially in their infancy, is a global topical issue and the pros and cons have been mentioned. Since Zambia has enjoyed fifty-one years of self-rule, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if she thinks this concept is still relevant to the Zambian situation and how far does she think we can take it?

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, yes, the concept is still relevant today.

Mr L. Ngoma: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr L. Ngoma: Mr Speaker, just a while ago, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry lamented that salaula has contributed to the fall in the trade and value addition of cotton when the salaula business falls within her ministry. Is she in order to lament that situation on the Floor of this House as opposed to her curbing it?

Mr Speaker: Firstly, I should not have allowed that point of order in the first place. Secondly, if you wish to seek further clarification, just follow it up with a question. That is all.

Please, continue, hon. Minister.

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, it is still relevant to protect industries in their infancy because many of them are still in at that stage. I know that we are part of the Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) and Southern African Development Community (SADC). However, even in those regional groupings, there is still room for us to apply for the protection of industries in their infancy. So, yes, it is relevant.    

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, she indicated that trading in second-hand clothes has become a cog and bar to the advancement of the textile industry in this country.

Mr L. Ngoma: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: I would like to find out from her whether she is considering banning the sale of salaula which is the only …

Mr Speaker: What do you mean by salaula?

Mr Mwiimbu: It means second-hand clothes. I would like to find out from her whether the Government of the Republic of Zambia, through the Patriotic Front (PF), is considering banning the sale of salaula in this country, taking into account that second-hand clothes are the only type of clothes Zambians can afford.

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the gentleman for that question. Again, it is a pertinent one.

Mr Ntundu: The gentleman?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, our conventional address is either hon. Member for Monze Central or Hon. Mwiimbu.

Mrs Mwanakatwe: Mr Speaker, my apologies.

Sir, the PF Government is bent on bringing about industrialisation and job creation. Therefore, we shall support any industry that is going to bring about industrialisation and job creation. Currently, salaula is filling the gap and what has been banned is the sale of salaula underwear. We work through a process. So, when we suspended the importation of edible oils, we knew that we had the capacity to produce it locally. We cannot wake up and ban the sale of salaula overnight when we know that the cotton manufacturing industry is nonexistent. So, this is the infancy that is being talked about. When an industry is in its infancy, we put in place some measures to protect it. This being the case, there is no way we can wake up and ban the sale of salaula when the textile industry is nonexistent.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


12.     Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting what the progress on the improvement of radio reception in most rural areas was.

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Mr Tembo): Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), has embarked on a nationwide programme to enhance radio reception in the rural parts of the country under the Rural FM Project.

The Rural FM Project involves installation of transmitters at the following twenty-four sites:

(i)    Chienge;
(ii)    Kazembe;
(iii)    Kaputa;
(iv)    Samfya;
(v)    Chilubi Island;
(vi)    Mporokoso;
(vii)    Isoka;
(viii)    Shiwang’andu;
(ix)    Luwingu;
(x)    Senga Hill;
(xi)    Mwandi;
(xii)    Shang’ombo;
(xiii)    Lukulu;
(xiv)    Mulobezi;
(xv)    Maamba;
(xvi)    Sinazeze;
(xvii)    Sinazongwe;
(xviii)    Chirundu;
(xix)    Kalomo;
(xx)    Mufumbwe;
(xxi)    Chavuma;
(xxii)    Luangwa;
(xxiii)    Nyimba; and
(xxiv)    Mumbwa.

Sir, the ZNBC has already completed the installation of FM transmitters at the following sites:

(i)    Mumbwa;
(ii)    Chilubi Island;
(iii)    Shiwang’andu;
(iv)    Shang’ombo;
(v)    Mulobezi;
(vi)    Mufumbwe;
(vii)    Luwingu; and
(viii)    Chavuma.

Mr Speaker, before the end of 2015, subject to availability of funds, the ZNBC intends to install FM transmitters in Isoka, Kazembe and Luangwa, leaving a balance of fourteen sites to be installed. These have been budgeted for in 2016.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, fifty-one years after Independence, we still cannot access Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation radio reception, and yet we are in Zambia.

The hon. Minister has indicated that twenty-five sites have been targeted for installation while eight of have been completed. Can the hon. Minister confirm when the rural areas will have the ZNBC signals so that we can also feel that we are in Zambia.

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kalabo Central for a good follow-up question.

Sir, it is true that fifty-one years have passed without the system being upgraded. It is for this reason that the committed Patriotic Front (PF) Government is correcting the mistakes which were made in the past. So, we are still installing transmitters and are going to make sure that all the places have transmitters before 2016 as already indicated in my response.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, connecting Zambia to the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) is as good as connecting Zambia to communication. This is a good move for the twenty-five areas that the hon. Minister has mentioned.

Sir, I would like to know whether Ikeleng’i and Mwinilunga are among the fourteen areas which the hon. Minister talked about because we are near Angola and the Democratic republic of Congo (DRC) where the signals from the two countries are easily accessed.

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, for the benefit of other hon. Members of Parliament, I will repeat my response.

Sir, I indicated that the ZNBC has already completed the installation of FM transmitters in Mumbwa, Chilubi Island, Shiwang’andu, Shang’ombo, Mulobezi, Mufumbwe, Luwingu and Chavuma.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the radio coverage by Radio Christian Voice is quite wide.

 Mr Muchima: On a point of order, Sir.

 Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

 Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I rarely stand on points of order.

Sir, my question to the hon. Minister was very clear. When we ask questions, we expect a responsible Government to provide appropriate responses. My question was whether Mwinilunga and Ikeleng’i were among the fourteen areas which he mentioned, but he read out something to the contrary. Is he in order to ignore my question which is so important to the people of Mwinilunga and Ikeleng’i?

I need your serious ruling on this matter.

 Mr Speaker: Order!

Hon. Minister, as you respond, please, clarify that point, as it seems to be a straightforward question. I suppose the hon. Member would like to know whether or not Mwinilunga and Ikeleng’i are included.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, before I was disturbed by my subject …


Mr Namulambe: … I was saying that the radio coverage by Radio Christian Voice is quite wide as compared to that for the National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) whose equipment, I think, is old. Is it possible for the Government to consider using the equipment that was once exposed by the Second Republican President which might still be lying somewhere in one of the tunnels so that, maybe, it can improve the radio reception countrywide?

 Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, we are not aware of the equipment which is lying somewhere in the tunnels. However, if it is there, then, we shall check whether it can work.

Sir, the hon. Member may wish to know that Mwinilunga and Ikeleng’i are not among the fourteen places that I have mentioned. I have mentioned the areas where transmitters have already been installed. So, Mwinilunga and Ikeleng’i are not covered, but they may be considered next year.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, radio reception or television coverage are very important for the dissemination of information as well as Government programmes and projects.

Sir, I note that among the twenty-five areas that are earmarked for installation of transmitters and the fourteen that have already been installed, there is only one place on the west of the Zambezi River. Suffice it to say that those are the areas where radio reception is very poor and they are subjected to listening to propaganda from neighbouring countries. Why has the Government not catered for those areas, particularly Luena because there is no proper radio reception there?

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I am sure I was very clear when I mentioned the areas which have been connected. I do not really know the areas which the hon. Member is talking about but, I believe, Shang’ombo is among the fourteen. If the hon. Member will care to look at the technologies that have been used, she will appreciate that if, for instance, one transmitter is installed at Parliament, Matero will equally be covered because of the interlink of the transmitters.


Mr Tembo: For example, the transmitter in Nyimba covers Luangwa and Petauke. This simply means that the transmitters are interlinked. Therefore, even the places that the hon. Member has mentioned can be covered by the transmitter which is installed in Shang’ombo.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba, who is a member of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), but serving under the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, has cast aspersions on the previous Government for its failure to perform. I would like to know why he failed to ensure that these projects were implemented during the time he served in the MMD Government.


Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I thank the Learned Member, Hon. Jack Mumbi, for that follow-up question.

Hon. UPND Members: Mwiimbu!

Mr Tembo: Hon. Mwiimbu. I am speaking on behalf of the nation and not a political party.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, the place that the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena Parliamentary Constituency mentioned, which is the west bank of the Zambezi River, stretches from Chavuma all the way up to Kalongola. The hon. Deputy Minister has indicated that Shang’ombo is one of the areas being considered for the improvement of radio reception. Will Mitete be able to receive the radio signal too? What is the radius of the radio transmitters that you are installing?

Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu West Parliamentary Constituency for that question. Let me say that the transmitters are not installed in the same manner that antennas are installed in homes. When they are installed in an area, they cover a particular radius. So, since the radius covers Lukulu, it means Mitete is also covered.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I went to the right school, which is Chizongwe Boys Secondary School. The question is not talking about the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC). It is talking about improving radio reception. In this case, radio stations include Radio Christian Voice, Parliament Radio, Radio Phoenix and many others although the concentration has been on the ZNBC. I would like to know whether or not these areas that the hon. Deputy Minister has mentioned will also receive signals from the other radio stations such as Radio Phoenix, Radio Christian Voice and others. I would also like to know if the Government has plans to increase the radio reception radius for private radio stations so that the people in rural areas can also access radio reception from private stations which are currently operating in Lusaka.

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Mr Kambwili): Mr Speaker, the Frequency Modulation (FM) transmitters are for the ZNBC. However, if the private sector wants to use these facilities, it can go and install receivers there to enable it use the facilities. The Government is trying to improve the ZNBC radio reception in these areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, the issue of poor radio reception in Rufunsa is one that I have repeatedly talked about. The hon. Deputy Minister has talked about improving radio reception in Luangwa and Nyimba. Unfortunately, he has not talked about Rufunsa. I would like to know whether or not that is deliberate or it is an indication that there will be a spillover from either Nyimba or Luangwa. We are the only constituency that is not covered in Lusaka Province.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the programme is still ongoing and we shall roll out to as many places as possible. Just as the hon. Deputy Minister has indicated, we expect that all areas in Zambia will have clear radio reception by 2020.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


13.     Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    why the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR) has had no management board for the last two years;

(b)    when a board would be appointed;

(c)    how many institutions under the ministry operated without management boards;

(d)    what the names of the institutions were; and

(e)    when management boards would be appointed for the institutions at (c).

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mabumba): Mr Speaker, following the expiry of the term of office for the previous management board, the ministry has been working towards the constitution of the new NISIR Board, as provided for in the Science and Technology Act No. 26 of 1997, Section 4 and Statutory Instrument No. 73 of 1998. As part of the procedure, the ministry wrote to all the institutions that are supposed to be represented on the NISIR Board, requesting them to nominate their representatives. The ministry has since received the nominations from the institutions that are supposed to sit on the NISIR Board.

Sir, the delay in constituting the NISIR Board was due to the fact that some institutions took long to submit their nominations. This may be understandable, considering that such institutions also conduct internal consultations before coming up with a nominee or suitable candidate. After receiving all the nominations, the ministry also needed time to consult internally and scrutinise the nominations in order to ensure that the right individuals are appointed.

Mr Speaker, now that all the nominations have been received, the ministry intends to submit the proposed names to the Cabinet for subsequent approval. It is expected that by December, 2015, the approval would have been granted by the Cabinet. The NISIR Board is expected to be appointed before the end of the year.

Sir, apart from the NISIR, there is only one institution, the National Remote Sensing Centre, to which members of the board are yet to be appointed.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, two years of not having a board in place is too long a period. Could the hon. Minister share with the House the negative impact that the absence of governing boards has on institutions.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I totally agree with Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo that a two-year period is long. Therefore, in the absence of the board, many of the decisions of the institution have not been executed. However, regrettably, the board is yet to be appointed and most of the issues that have been pending in the last two years will be dealt with.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, before the previous board’s term of office expired, the people at the ministry knew that the term was coming to an end. Two years down the line, the ministry is still waiting for names of the nominees to be submitted. Is it incompetence on the part of the ministry not to ensure that the board is constituted on time or it is incompetence by the institution which is asked to submit the names of those to sit on the board?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, like I said earlier, the ministry writes to the institutions which, according to the Act, are supposed to sit on the board. In the event that the nominations are not submitted, it is very difficult for the ministry to proceed and submit names to the Cabinet for approval. Therefore, much as I appreciate the period that it has taken, we, as a ministry, take responsibility for the non appointment of the board.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR) is a very important institution. It has come up with a lot of new products like the maheu drink which have been patented. The preservation of maheu was actually discovered by a Zambian scientist and now the Coca-Cola Company has bought the patent.

Mr Speaker, is this institution still in existence? I ask because its land along Airport Road is being demarcated and given to other institutions. I have actually not seen an allocation for NISIR in this year’s Budget.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the institution still exists and its land along Great East Road is still there. Of course, I know that part of the piece of land was allocated to the New Silverest Project. I think that was done after an agreement among various institutions in the Government was reached.

Mr Speaker, as regards budgeting, the allocations for all the institutions under the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education are provided for in the Budget. Therefore, I would request Hon. Shakafuswa to go back to the 2015 Budget and check the allocation for this institution. He will surely find an allocation for NISIR.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, this institution was set up in the First Republic to create scientific inventions to benefit the economy. My last contact with a team from this institution indicated that their last invention was the tip-top drink and some milk biscuits. Looking at the budget line for this institution, is the appointment of a new board going to come with some performance targets or contracts?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I totally agree with the hon. Member for Mbala that what this institution can do is only dependent on its Budget allocation. I, however, want to thank His Excellency the President for the pronouncement that he has since made in terms of splitting some ministries. The only way some of the institutions that are under our higher education system are going to be effective is by ensuring that their budgets are significant enough for them to execute their mandates. Under the circumstances, it has not been possible for this institution, important as it is to this country, to execute some of its mandates.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, I hear this institution is working without a board. How is that possible? Who makes the decisions?

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, in the absence of a board, the Act provides for an internal institutional arrangement where the hon. Minister appoints an interim committee to oversee the running of the institution. That is the institutional framework which is in place at the moment.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


14.    Mr Namulambe asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when the construction of additional staff houses for Mpongwe District Council would commence.
The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Ching’imbu): Mr Speaker, the Government has not yet considered constructing additional houses in Mpongwe because, currently, the Government is concentrating on constructing infrastructure in the newly-created districts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I find that answer unsatisfactory. Why should one forget the ‘old baby’ and concentrate on the ‘new one’? Considering the fact that Mpongwe is not among the new councils, how is the Government taking care of the councils that are in need?

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, we are not forgetting about the ‘old baby’, but are doing things in the spirit of equity by prioritising infrastructure development in the new districts. It should be noted that shortly after Mpongwe was declared a district, a similar situation happened and two high cost, five medium cost and sixteen low cost houses were constructed. So, this is what is also happening in the new districts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I feel sad to hear that the Government’s concentration will be on developing the new districts only. Two years ago, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing told us to look for land to put up 100 houses for each council. Almost all the councils have reserved this amount of land …

Mr Namulambe: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, only ten houses were built in Mpongwe when I was serving as Council Secretary. Therefore, is the hon. Deputy Minister in order to mislead the House by saying House that sixteen low cost houses were built in Mpongwe?

Mr Speaker: I will request the hon. Minister to respond to that by way of clarification.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, are the pieces of land which were supposed to accommodate 100 houses still relevant now that the Government is not going to look at the old councils? Can the councils give this land to new developers? I want a very clear answer on whether the issue of the 100 houses for each council is still on the cards or it has been forgotten.

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, that matter is still very relevant. This is why the Government is encouraging the private sector to come in so that we undertake the project through the public private partnerships (PPPs). So, any investors who are interested in taking up this project are most welcome because we are still pursuing the programme.
As regards the sixteen housing units that I talked about earlier, the information we have at the ministry indicates that this is the number of low cost housing units that were built in Mpongwe. However, if the hon. Member says that they were ten, well and good because something was done.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, I am disappointed to hear the Government say that it is concentrating on the new districts. Nkeyema happens to be one of the newly-created districts, having been declared a district about three years ago. May I know how many council houses have been built so far in Nkeyema, bearing in mind that the Government is concentrating on the new districts?

Mr Speaker: If the hon. Minister is able to answer that question, I will give him the liberty to dos so although the hon. Member’s question takes a specific and new dimension.

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, that is a new question.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, there is a serious shortage of housing in Mpongwe. In his response, the hon. Deputy Minister has said that the Government is concentrating on the new districts. This is not helpful to the people of Mpongwe. However, I want to reconcile the two. How mutually exclusive is the concept of building houses in Mpongwe with the construction of houses in the new districts?

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, the development of the housing sector is dictated by the availability of funds. When you look at the resource envelope, it can only cater for the construction of houses in the new districts in the meantime, but that does not mean that we have forsaken the old ones. When resources are made available, we shall endeavour to build more houses in Mpongwe District. There is a little glimmer of hope because we have realised that the Government alone cannot shoulder this programme.

So, we are pursuing the Public Private Partnership (PPP) Programme for Mpongwe and other districts in need. I think this is the direction we should take because the Government resources are not limitless. There are serious challenges and we also have other competing needs. So, we hope that we are not demoralising the people in Mpongwe, but rather they should bear with us. Now that we are working on the Regional and Urban Planning Act, which we enacted in this House, and are also developing a Housing Policy, it should be clearer as to which direction this sector should go.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, has the shortage of staff housing affected the staffing at Mpongwe District Council in any way?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, any shortage of housing will affect the performance of a council and Mpongwe is no exception at all because our staff are forced to rent accommodation elsewhere as Mpongwe has no accommodation to offer for rentals. This is why we keep on saying our staff must continue working hard despite the obvious challenges they face. That is my message to the staff at Mpongwe District Council. We appreciate the predicament in which we have placed them. I also want to thank them for their perseverance, but I cannot take them for granted.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


15.     Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    when the construction of laboratories at the following secondary schools in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency would commence:

(i)    Lusuntha Day;
(ii)    Hoya Day; and
(iii)    Emusa Day;

(b)    what the total cost of the project was; and

(c)    who the contractors for the projects were.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the ministry, through the National Science Centre, has approved the supply of mobile science laboratories to Lusuntha and Emusa day secondary schools while funds are being sourced for the construction of permanent laboratories. Hoya Day Secondary School might be considered in 2016.

Mr Speaker, there are no laboratory construction projects being undertaken at all the three schools.

Mr Speaker, question (c) is not applicable in view of the response given at (b).

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, when is the distribution of the mobile laboratories going to start? I am not very clear on that one.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, the distribution of the mobile laboratories would have started but we had wanted to get information from the provinces. The National Science Centre also sent a team to go and verify the schools that are going to benefit from the distribution of mobile laboratories because we did not want to supply mobile laboratories to schools that are not among the beneficiaries. So, the officers from the National Science Centre who went into the field have since come back. Now, it is a question of the ministry looking at the list and the hon. Minister launching the distribution exercise.

Mr Speaker, the distribution exercise will commence during this quarter of the year.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that Lusuntha Day and Emusa secondary schools have been considered in the distribution of mobile laboratories, but Hoya Day Secondary School will be considered in 2016.

Sir, since science is a very important subject in our schools, may I find out from the hon. Minister how the pupils are learning science at Hoya Day Secondary School at the moment.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I agree with Hon. Mbewe that science is an important subject. However, given that there are limitations in resources, it has not been possible for the ministry to build laboratories in many schools. This is why the innovation of mobile laboratories came up because we found that it was cheaper to build a mobile science laboratory than to build permanent infrastructure. It is regrettable that pupils at Hoya Day secondary School do not have the services of a laboratory. I guess the teachers are trying to do their best under the circumstances.

Mr Speaker, with the mobile laboratories that we have started manufacturing, I am sure that many of the schools that do not have permanent laboratories will be able to get them.

Mr Speaker, in fact, the other issue that I would want to share with our hon. Colleagues as well as the people of Zambia is that the schools that will be given mobile laboratories will also be given examination centre numbers. This has been difficult in the past. All the schools that we are going to provide with mobile laboratories and those that are going to have secure strong rooms for the safekeeping of examination papers will be given examination centre numbers. So, we will be holding a meeting with the Examinations Council of Zambia to amend the rules so as to allow the schools which will have mobile laboratories to be issued with examination centre numbers.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, ...

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to rise on this very serious point of order.

Is my younger brother, Hon. George Kunda, in whom I am well pleased, ...

Hon. Cabinet Ministers: Howard!

Mr Kambwili: ... in order to come into the House dressed like a band leader for Shalawambe or Serenje Kalindula Band?


Mr Kambwili: Is he in order?

I need your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker: Where I am seated, I cannot see very clearly, but I will ask the Clerks-at-the-Table to assist me examine the type of apparel he is wearing and whether or not it conforms with our Standing Orders.

So, my ruling is reserved.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education give the House some sense of how serious this problem of the lack or shortage of laboratories is countrywide.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, obviously, it has been a problem because as you are aware, basic schools, which house Grades 8 and 9 classes, are supposed to have laboratories but, unfortunately, many of them do not have laboratories.

Mr Speaker, this is why a policy decision had to be made to revert to the primary and secondary school system because the idea was that all the Grades 8 and 9 classes, since they study science, needed to go back to the conventional secondary school system that have to run from Grades 8 to 12.

Mr Speaker, I totally agree with the hon. Member that this is a challenge because we still have basic schools which house Grades 8 and 9 classes. Like I said, since we do not have the resources to build physical laboratories at once, given the budget limitations, the mobile laboratory concept has been adopted because it is cheaper. We can manufacture many mobile laboratories within a year and have them distributed to schools. At the moment, we have the 220 primary schools which we are being upgraded and they will all be issued with mobile laboratories.

I thank you, Sir.


16.     Mr Chenda (Bwana Mkubwa) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    when the construction of New Mushili Health Centre in Bwana Mkubwa Parliamentary Constituency would commence;

(b)    what the cost of the project was; and

(c)    what the time frame for the project was.

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, the construction of New Mushili Health Centre in Bwana Mkubwa Parliamentary Constituency has been planned for in the 2015 Infrastructure Operational Plan. Funds for the commencement of the works have already been released to the Provincial Health Office. The project is expected to commence before the end of this year once the procurement process has been concluded.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost for the project, as per Infrastructure Operational Plan, is K371, 000.

Mr Speaker, the estimated time frame, that is the contract period of the project, is twenty months.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister of Health for the most encouraging news that the health centre will be constructed during the course of this year.

Sir, I would like to find out from him whether the diagnosis and prescription for the health problems that the people of Bwana Mkubwa have suffered are correct.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I welcome the interaction with the hon. Member in the House. We have also often interacted on the golf course and, in both situations, I have some difficulty understanding what he is trying to get at, especially so when it is not on the golf course where, at least, we know the ball is going to go into the hole. Perhaps, the hon. Member would care to elaborate on what this disease has been and the kind of signs and symptoms so that we can help in the diagnosis and treatment.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Probably, the hon. Member may respond in due course unless he wants to pursue this further.

Mr Chenda: Mr Speaker, to be plain, I was simply trying to find out whether the facility that is earmarked for Bwana Mkubwa will be adequate, considering that the population of Mushili is now more than 55,000. It is higher than the population of Broken Hill, now Kabwe, at the time of Independence and it had a general hospital.

Can the hon. Minister assure us that the new health centre will be adequate for the population of Mushili which is over 55,000.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, in principle, we appreciate that the population is on the increase. We also know that it will continue to increase for many years, as it is increasing at 3.5 per cent per year at present. For this reason, the infrastructure is being designed, taking into account the increase in population. The design does not necessarily mean the increase in one institution. It may mean the increase in the number of institutions or in the function of an institution. I think that using this principle, we should have no difficulty whatsoever in coping with the suggested increase in population.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: I would like to come back to my reserved ruling. The Clerks-at-the-Table have had a closer look at the hon. Member for Muchinga.


Mr Speaker: From their assessment, they have confirmed that he is wearing a suit and a scarf around his neck.


Mr Speaker: Therefore, he has complied with Standing Order No. 207.


Mr Speaker: So, he is properly dressed.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I know that the building that is currently used as a health centre was a council house. I thank the hon. Minister that a new one is being built in Mushili, which is my home township.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the estimated cost of the project is K371,000. How can we ensure that there is no exaggeration in terms of costing? How can we ensure that the contractor does not come up with a cost of the project that is equivalent to the value of the resources available even when the project costs less?
Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I think that the hon. Member is rightly concerned that the actual amount required at the time of construction may be above the estimated cost. However, there is no reason for concern as this is an estimated cost of the project. I have said that the procurement process has not yet been concluded. When the contract is eventually signed, it will relate to the amount that the contractor has suggested will be necessary to construct the health post. It will, therefore, be current and appropriate at that time.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


18. Mr Chipungu asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to connect the following areas in Rufunsa District to the national electricity grid:

(i)    Chinyunyu;
(ii)    Sinjela;
(iii)    Chitemalesa; and
(iv)    Mwachilele;

(b)    what the estimated cost of the project was; and

(c)    if there were no such plans, why.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Musukwa): Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to connect Sinjela, Chinyunyu, Chitemalesa and Mwachilele in Rufunsa District to the national electricity grid.

The cost of the electrification of the above-mentioned areas in Rufunsa District will only be determined after the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) has completed the scoping exercise in 2016.

Mr Speaker, as mentioned above, the Government has plans to connect the above-mentioned areas in Rufunsa District to the national electricity grid.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, perhaps, I did not get the hon. Minister clearly. I would like to know roughly when these works will commence.

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to emphasise the response that we gave to the question by hon. Member of Parliament for Rufunsa. The Government has indicated that it will connect all the four areas in question to the national electricity grid. The total cost of the electrification will be determined after we the completion of the scoping exercise which is already underway. Under normal circumstances, the last question falls away because the Government has indicated that the areas will be connected to the national electricity grid.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

19.    Mr Mbulakulima asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock:

(a)    why Milenge District had no fertiliser and seed depot, thereby making it difficult for farmers to access agricultural inputs;

(b)    when a depot would be established in the district; and

(c)    what measures had been taken, in the interim, to ensure that farmers had easy access to agricultural inputs.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, before the mid-1990s, there was a seed and fertiliser depot, but following the passing of the Food Reserve Agency Act of 1995, the facility was handed over to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) for the storage of maize. The Government has not constructed any storage facilities for fertiliser and seed. Most of the agricultural inputs are stored in rented storage facilities.

Mr Speaker, the Government has no immediate plans to build a storage facility for agricultural inputs in Milenge District. Nevertheless, the private sector has been encouraged to take advantage of this opportunity to build storage facilities in areas such as Milenge.

Mr Speaker, as an interim measure, the Government hires private companies to distribute fertiliser and seed. For instance, this farming season, the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) and Nyiombo Investment Limited have been hired to deliver fertiliser.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, hon. Ministers, you should travel and acquaint yourselves with the situation on the ground. There are no privately-owned buildings in Milenge that are used for the storage of agricultural inputs. The inputs have been kept at Mansa District all along. The people of Milenge are deprived of this facility. Therefore, I do not know where the hon. Minister got that information from. What is so difficult about the Government putting up such infrastructure instead of leaving it to the private investors? Do you not have a heart for the people of Milenge? I want you to respond ‘nicely’, hon. Deputy Minister.


The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, it is not the Government’s policy to construct fertiliser sheds across the country because the distribution of fertiliser has been sub-contracted to the private sector. We are encouraging the private sector to construct storage sheds for fertiliser throughout the country, including Milenge. The hon. Deputy Minister mentioned that Nyiombo Investments Limited and the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) had been hired to deliver fertiliser to Milenge. Where they store it before they hand it over to farmers is immaterial to the Government. What is important to the Government is that the fertiliser is delivered in good time as close to the farmer as possible. We know that when it is time for farmers in Milenge to receive fertiliser, they will be directed to the nearest depots that are managed by the private sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, the storage of fertiliser is critical, especially in the rural parts of the country. First and foremost, let me congratulate the hon. Minister who is proactive in making certain decisions ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Your brother.

Mr Muchima: My brother!


Mr Mbewe: Zayelo!

Mr Muchima: Yes, he is quite approachable.

Mr Speaker, do you not think that it will be necessary to advertise and give specifications to the private sector so that they can put up the sheds before the Government can construct some? I am sure that the private sector will be most willing to do that, especially when they know that there is an incentive. Do you not think it is a good idea to do that?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the hon. Member for those kind words. As a ministry, we shall endeavour to be approachable and proactive. With regard to the suggestion that he has made, I already stated that we are encouraging the private sector to construct storage sheds for agricultural inputs across the country. The Government does not have a policy of constructing sheds. We do not want to compete with the private sector. We have been talking about the construction of maize or grain silos, but not storage facilities for inputs because, in future, we would like the distribution of agricultural inputs to be completely handled by the private sector.

I would also like to take advantage of this question to indicate that I gave, with your permission, Sir, a ministerial  statement where I described the Electronic-Voucher System that we would like to use to deliver inputs to farmers. This will ride on the back of the private sector. Therefore, there is no compelling reason for the Government to create storage sheds which, ultimately, should be run by the private sector. I would like to encourage my hon. Colleague to also consider going into agro dealership which is a lucrative business that he could make a lot of money from, not only in the area that he represents, but in Milenge, for instance, where there are no storage sheds. He could really make good business there.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I totally agree with the hon. Minister that inputs such as fertiliser have already reached some districts like Milenge and Chadiza.

Mr Mbulakulima: Who told you?


Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, since fertiliser has already reached the districts, and the farmers are waiting to receive it, how much is it going to cost per bag? How much is the seed going to cost so that farmers can budget for the inputs?

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Chadiza is right. We have delivered fertiliser across the country. We are actually approaching the 80 per cent delivery mark for both Compound D and Urea fertiliser across the country. This is unprecedented.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance for assisting my ministry to achieve this high level of performance. As for Chadiza, we have actually hit the 75.5 per cent delivery mark. So, very soon, we shall be reaching the 100 per cent delivery mark. With regard to the prices, with your permission, Sir, and that of the hon. Chief Whip, I may come to Parliament late tomorrow because I have been authorised by his Excellency the President to go to Ndola to launch the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) for 2015. Therefore, with your indulgence, can the hon. Member kindly allow me not to pre-empt the launch that I will be making tomorrow. Otherwise, the launch may become irrelevant.


Mr Lubinda: As I come back tomorrow, I will have announced the prices of inputs, conditions and so on and so forth. So, I would not like to belabour the point to the House or explain things that I will be explaining tomorrow. With your permission, Sir, may I, please, reserve this for tomorrow when I can refer to some copious notes which I do not have now.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: You can keep the lid on.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, it is unfortunate that the hon. Minister prefers to make the announcement outside the House even when it is sitting, and yet the opposite should be the case.  

Sir, I have been to Milenge District. The condition of the roads from Chembe and Tuta is so bad that someone who is not from Milenge cannot be attracted to invest in the area. What incentives is the Government considering providing in order to attract investors to put up depots in Milenge which should not just be for agricultural inputs because people ought to grow food throughout the year?

Further, why should Parliament not have first-hand information concerning the launch, hon. Minister? Why should hon. Members of Parliament receive this information later than the members of the public?

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, you do not have to answer the latter part of the question. I have given you leave.


Mr Lubinda: Thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker, this Government is working on a lot of programmes to open up the country. Milenge will not be left out of the Link Zambia 8,000 km Road Project. If the hon. Member of Parliament, who asked the question spoke to the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe Constituency, I am sure that he would be well-informed about the programme by the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications to open up Milenge.  

Sir, not too long ago, the Government worked on a very important bridge that links Milenge to the rest of the country. As a result, a lot of maize was bought from Milenge this year.

Mr Lubinda: The Food Reserve Agency (FRA) was in the area buying maize and delivering it to storage houses.  

Mr Mbulakulima rose.

Mr Speaker: It is not possible, hon. Member for Chembe.

Mr Mbewe: Sit down!

Mr Speaker: It is not possible.

Mr Mbulakulima resumed his seat.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, there are many incentives that this Government is providing to attract investment across the country, including Milenge.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I stand on a very serious point of order. You know that Milenge is one of the most marginalised districts in the country. My friend, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, is annoying me now …

Mr Mbewe: Ah!

Mr Mbulakulima: …by …

Mr Mbewe: Provoking!

Mr Mbulakulima:  … provoking me.

Is he in order to mislead this House by stating that there is a bridge in Milenge that was constructed by his Government when this hon. Member is not aware of that bridge?


Mr Mbulakulima: This is the fifth year of the Patriotic Front (PF) Government in power and they have not implemented a single project in my constituency. Is he in order to mislead this House by not mentioning the name of the bridge he is referring to?

Sir, I need your very serious ruling on this matter.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, the challenge you have is that you should have asked a follow-up question as opposed to raising a point of order. Now, the hon. Minister has left the Floor. However, it is not the end of the matter. If there are specific issues you would like to raise with the hon. Minister, ask him a question and he will respond. That is my ruling.


20.     Mr Phiri asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications:

(a)    how much money, in total, was owed to all road contractors countrywide as of June, 2015;

(b)    what the total number of contractors owed, was;

(c)    how much interest had accrued on the principal amounts as of August, 2015; and
(d)    whether the contractors were within their contract periods of completing the projects.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Mbulu) (on behalf of the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications)) Mr Speaker, as at June 30, 2015, a total of K2.7 billion was owed to contractors and consultants in the form of unpaid interim payment certificates. Two hundred and one contractors were owed a total of K2.7 billion. A total of K21 million had accrued in interest charges for delayed payments.

Mr Speaker, the contracts are within the contract periods. However, delayed payments will entail extensions of the contracts in order to allow for the completion of works.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the Katete/Chadiza Road is under construction. However, works on this road have stalled and the contractor is on holiday at the moment. I would like to find out when funds will be released so that the works can resume. My worry is that with the coming of the rains, the road will be impassable because there are some heaps of gravel on the road.

The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, part of the Eurobond has been allocated to the road sector. So, the works should resume pretty soon.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving us hope that the road sector is going to benefit from the Eurobond.

Sir, were there any contractors who used their money to do the works and are having problems getting a refund from the Government?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I am not aware of any.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, what is the reason for the delayed payments to the contractors?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, the reason for the delayed payments was the restricted fiscal space.
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutati (Lunte): Mr Speaker, the Bank of Zambia issued a circular, prohibiting business transactions in United States (US) Dollars except for authorised dealers. A few days ago, the Road Development Agency (RDA) and China Henan signed a contract in US Dollars. Have these parties been exempted from the circular issued by the Bank of Zambia?

Dr Simbyakula hesitated to rise.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister.


Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, I am unable to respond to that question effectively in the absence of the substantive hon. Minister.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Speaker: This question will have to be responded to and I am glad Her Honour the Vice-President is present. I am sure we shall find means of responding to it.


21.    Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    how many teachers were working in Government schools in Kalabo District as of July, 2015;

(b)    of the teachers above, how many were:

(i)    confirmed; and
(ii)    not confirmed; and

(c)    what the cause of the delay in confirming the teachers was.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, there were 558 teachers working in Government schools in Kalabo District as of July, 2015. There were 472 teachers who were confirmed in their positions and eighty-six teachers were not confirmed as of July, 2015.

Sir, the delay in processing confirmation cases was mainly due to incomplete appointment documents. The ministry is, however, working towards ensuring that the backlog is cleared before the end of 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that there are more than 500 teachers employed in Government schools in Kalabo. It is very worrying when you visit the schools in Kalabo Central Constituency and find that most of the teachers are not confirmed. Are the 472 teachers alive or they are ghosts?


Mr Miyutu: I ask this because three quarters of the schools I have visited in my constituency have teachers who are not confirmed. The same applies to headteachers. Therefore, where do these teachers exist?
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, let us avoid rhetorical questions. Certainly, you know that he cannot determine whether these are ghosts or otherwise.


Mr Speaker: Let us keep our questions plain. That way, we shall avoid consternation in the House.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, I said that there are 472 teachers who have been confirmed. Surely, if eighty-six teachers out of the 558 in Kalabo District have not been confirmed, you should be able to tell that the majority of the teachers in the district have been confirmed in their positions. However, this is regrettable. Nonetheless, the eighty-six who have not yet been confirmed will be confirmed before the end of 2015. These are teachers who are working in Kalabo and are not ghost teachers.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, are you aware that some teachers who appear on the books for Kalabo District are actually not there? They just go there in order to be put on the payroll and then go elsewhere.

Mr Mabumba: Mr Speaker, we are aware that there are such situations in the ministry. That is the reason the recruitment for 2015 has been decentralised to the provinces and all that the ministry will do is confirm the appointments once the provinces have done the recruitment. We believe that if the recruitment is done at provincial and district levels, then, the possibility of retaining teachers in those locations will be higher. I totally agree with Hon. Dr Musokotwane.

I thank you, Sir.

22.    Mr Kazabu asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to construct a Cancer Diseases Hospital in the Copperbelt Province to cater for patients in the northern part of the country;

(b)    if so, when the plans would be implemented; and

(c)    if there were no such plans, why.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the Government, through the Ministry of Health, has recognised the need to establish centres for the diagnosis and treatment of cancer and related diseases in various parts of the country with priority given to the Copperbelt Province due to the high population density. To this effect, the Ministry of Health has submitted a project proposal, through the Ministry of Finance, to solicit for donor support in establishing the centres.

Sir, the project will be implemented as soon as funds are made available. As indicated earlier, the Government has plans to establish centres for the diagnosis and treatment of cancer and related diseases in various parts of the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, the House is aware that there is only one Cancer Diseases Hospital located in Lusaka. The House is also aware that there is a serious problem of congestion at that hospital. As much as I appreciate the measure by the Government to establish centres for the diagnosis and treatment of cancer in various parts of the country, what other measures is the Government taking to decongest the hospital? I am aware that Her Honour the Vice-President visited the Hospital in Lusaka recently and I am sure she knows what I am talking about.

Sir, what support can the Government give to people whose relatives suffer from cancer or related diseases, and have come all the way from Mwinilunga, for instance, and do not have relatives in Lusaka? What support can the Government give to such people?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the starting point in understanding this situation is that only a few years ago, there were no facilities at all for the treatment of cancer. This country had to revert to other countries for assistance. Now, we have the Cancer Diseases Hospital at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). The importance of this hospital is twofold. In fact, no patients are being admitted to the hospital at the moment until it has been fully equipped, which will be soon. So, it remains a function of the UTH, as it has always been a place where cancer patients are admitted. Once there is more bed space available at the Cancer Diseases Hospital, it will be decongested.

Sir, the Cancer Diseases Hospital conducts the function of a hospital as well as that of a strategic development centre for cancer services in the country. In fact, we ought to call it a Cancer Diseases Hospital and Institute for Cancer Diseases. This is very much what I would wish to see and, probably, will see. The hospital is working on how the rest of the country will be served in this regard. The strategic plan has already been drawn, and I have since approved it. The strategic plan will enable us to develop centres for the diagnosis and treatment of cancer across the country. However, I must emphasise that not every centre will be a cancer diseases hospital, in that sense, because of the cost of the equipment for treatment of cancer. Many interventions against cancer can be made without that level of sophistication of equipment which we have at the UTH. I am, therefore, confident that the Cancer Diseases Hospital is the beginning of a major activation, development and improvement in the care of cancer diseases in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, is the congestion at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) due to not having enough urologists?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, if I heard correctly, we were talking about experts in urology. Am I right in my understanding?


Dr Kasonde: If that is the case, Mr Speaker, the question addresses an important part though a small area of cancer diseases. We do appreciate that cervical cancer and prostate cancer, between them take a great toll on our community. Nevertheless, these are but a component of the care of cancer for all other organs of the body. Therefore, if there was a shortage of urologists, this would not necessarily be our greatest concern. As it happens, we do have urologists. I have forgotten the exact number, but I think it is approximately five. The issue is whether those are experts in cancer diseases care. Because of this, our emphasis, in this regard, is to develop capacity in the expertise of cancer care. The question of the area within that expertise is not the critical issue at the moment. To this extent, I agree that we have a shortage of experts in the care of cancer. We are lucky that the Swedish Government has collaborated with the Cancer Diseases Hospital to begin training cancer specialists in Sweden, in the first instance. I hope this will be extended elsewhere.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the prevalence rate of cancer diseases in the country has taken an upswing recently. Maybe, it was dormant and was not researched upon or identified much earlier. In the recent past, the prevalence of cancer seems to have taken an upswing stance. Hon. Minister, what can be attributable to the high prevalence of the various forms of cancer diseases in the country? Has there been any research undertaken?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, first of all, yes, there is a tremendous increase of cancer diseases because of the capacity to diagnose the diseases. More and more people in the provinces and urban areas are recognising the disease. For that reason, the numbers appear to have increased. However, there is a real increase in the sense that the population has acquired lifestyles that lead to cancer. I am talking about, for example, smoking and cancer diseases that may be encouraged by various activities of the individual, including alcohol intake. This change in lifestyle towards this so-called modern life is the experience of a developing country moving towards a highly developed country but, in the process, acquiring the very conditions that those people who went through this path acquired before. We must begin to address the area of lifestyle as an important reason for the increase in cancer diseases. Of course, there is also the fact that the aging process is associated with an increase in the incidence rate. Therefore, as the life expectancy of the population increases, we get older people and, therefore, become more amenable to the development of cancer diseases. In summary, yes, there is an apparent increase in cancer diseases due to increased notification, but there is also a real increase as a result of lifestyle and change in age.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, lately, I have heard of so many people trooping to India to seek treatment for cancer-related conditions. Hon. Dr Kasonde, is this a reflection of the fact that we do not have sufficient oncologists, neurosurgeons and urologists or it is just a lack of confidence in the Cancer Diseases Hospital in Lusaka, as an institution, that people choose to go to India, thereby draining our very meagre foreign exchange?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has raised a very important issue which relates to the continuing exodus of people abroad for treatment, particularly in relation to cancer. I think all the areas that she has covered are correct. Firstly, we are yet to create an atmosphere of confidence in our capacity to treat the disease because we have not been at it long enough. However, we hope that with education and increasing experience, this can be reduced to a minimum. It is, however, necessary to, sometimes, send some patients abroad because there are certain treatments which require the skills and expertise that we have not yet developed. In that case, that is why we have concentrated on skills acquisition for our people so that those who are compelled to send patients outside because of skills not being available here will no longer need to go abroad. So, yes, we have a job to do in order to ensure that our country becomes the centre in the region. Indeed, it is not forlorn hope, but this is the beginning for us to serve not only Zambia, but also the region. We have laid the foundation through infrastructure development, acquisition of equipment and training for us to become the maker for the region in this area.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, this being the only hospital for cancer diseases, there are long queues for people to access the facility. There is also the issue of the high fees which are prohibitive to many ordinary Zambians. We have seen in the media Zambians appealing for financial assistance to enable them to access the services of the Cancer Diseases Hospital. What is the ministry doing to assist those who are failing to access the facility because of a lack of money?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, ideologically, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government is committed to the delivery of free health care to every individual at the point of use. We work on that principle and we must attain it. In the meantime, we are faced with a situation where some of the equipment, particularly in the treatment of cancer, is so expensive that each test requires a lot of funds which is a drain on the coffers of nation. In this interim period, we appeal to those who are able to contribute to the delivery of services to do so. Nevertheless, we have provided for social workers to be available in all institutions where payment is required to assess the capacity of an individual to pay. When a person is unable to pay, he/she will be relieved of this demand. I am aware, through contact with many people, that this rule is not always followed because colleagues in hospitals, sometimes, do not take the time and care to discuss with an individual, his/her capacity to pay. They simply ask for money from the patients and, if they do not have the money to pay, they are not treated. This should not be the case. Please, hon. Members, let us make it clear that there is a provision for those who cannot afford the fees to be exempted from paying and this should not occur if the people are understood. Our intention is to produce some kind of guidelines which will be available in institutions so that people know what their rights are when they find themselves in this unfortunate situation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I would like to know what plans the ministry has put in place to train as many young people as possible to prepare for the best ever quality treatment possible in the near future not only for this country, as the hon. Minister rightly put it, but also for the region.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I hinted, in my earlier response, that we have embarked on a training programme for experts in this area. I must admit that I would have liked to see many more enter this field but, because this expertise has to be acquired outside the country, it means there are costs and payments. For that reason, we can only move as fast as the funds will permit. However, we are committed to increasing the number of experts in this field.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, there is a general movement towards looking at ways of addressing cancer other than the formal conventional approaches and Africa is seen as one of the sources of alternative treatment for cancer in terms of herbs. Is the ministry considering alternative ways of looking at cancer treatment in the country using our own sources?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the issue of alternative and complementary medicines. It is our intention to bring to this House a Bill to govern the application of alternative and complementary medicines in our health system. This matter has, for some reason, been delayed for far too long. For this reason, it has not been possible to be proactive in our research agenda. Yes, we have researchers doing this work at the Tropical Diseases Research Centre (TDRC) in Ndola, but it has not been sufficiently proactive to gather the great knowledge that is available in our own society because the focus is on the safety of the patient who will be treated in the course of experimentation. The area of ethics demands the strictest control of research in an area where human beings are going to be the subject. However, I hope that with the Bill that will be brought to the House and the Acts that will follow in liaison with the previous Bill on research, which was approved by this House and there is now an Act on research, our ethical management will be, at least, sufficiently active so as to process more and more of this work. I agree with the hon. Member that there is a lot to learn and we must use the great knowledge that is available in this country. With his permission and support, this will be the case.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Lt-Gen. Bishop Shikapwasha (Keembe): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister talk about training of local experts in this area. Would it not be better for us to find money and invest in the training of people locally in order to cut down on the costs of training people in Sweden?

 Dr Kaonde: Mr Speaker, in fact, when I referred to training with the support of the Swedish Governemnt, I meant that the training should be conducted both in Sweden and in Zambia, but with support from the Swedish Governemnt. This has always been the case. Therefore, we must build our capacity to train so that those who will go overseas for training, become our support for training the younger ones. In fact, this is the arrangement, and I would like to thank the hon. Member for reminding me.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.


23.     Mr Pande asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications:

(a)    why the palaces of Senior Chiefs Kasempa and Ingwe in Kasempa District were not considered for the construction of communication towers under Phase I of the project;

(b)    which other senior chiefs’ palaces, countrywide were not considered;

(c)    whether priority for the construction of towers under Phase II would be given to the palaces at (a) ; and

(d)    if the palaces at (a) would not be given priority, why.

Mr Mbulu: Mr Speaker, the Tower Installation Project aims at addressing the need for mobile network coverage in unserved and underserved areas in the rural areas, including chiefdoms. Only chief’s palaces without signal coverage will be considered for the provision of towers.

Mr Speaker, further, it must be noted that the towers were not necessarily erected within the perimeters of the targeted chiefs’ palaces, but technical consideration for maximisation of coverage was taken into account before deciding on the location of the towers.

Mr Speaker, Phase II of the Tower Installation Project will address existing gaps with regard to mobile network coverage. Therefore, priority is given to areas that were not covered in Phase I of the project. Currently, the eleven areas that have been earmarked in Kasempa are:

(i)    Njenga;
(ii)    Kabila;
(iii)    Mukunashi;
(iv)    Kanungo;
(v)    Kamakechi;
(vi)    Mpungu;
(vii)    Lubofu;
(viii)    Kelongwa;
(ix)    Nyoka;
(x)    Ingwe; and
(xi)    Kamatete.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned that the first phase was not directly for the chiefdoms. The hon. Minister may wish to know that there was a circular that indicated that the project was for chiefdoms, and yet the two chiefs were not included and there is no tower which is accessible for any network in the two chiefdoms. I would, therefore, like to find out why the two chiefs were left out.

Sir, may I also find out from the hon. Minister why the question relating to the other senior chiefs’ palaces has not been answered.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, not all areas were covered in Phase I of the project. Phase II is there to address the existing gap in network coverage. This means that this will cover the areas which were not served and those that were served, but are underserved. I hope that answers the question.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, it is so nice to hear of these good plans. It was brought to the hon. Minister’s attention that one of the towers was erected but it is non-functional. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why the situation is still the same because we were assured, on the Floor of this House, that the tower would be installed in no time.

Sir, the tower, which was erected more than six months ago in His Royal Highness Chief Kaindu’s area, has not been activated. Is it not the same as having no tower at all? I would like to hear the hon. Minister’s plans.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, essentially, the causes of the underservice are twofold. The first one is that the equipment was not operating optimally. The second cause is the terrain. Therefore, to address the two problems, the towers, which are currently twenty-five metres high, have to be replaced with new ones that will be eighty metres tall. Hopefully, this will provide communication network coverage to all areas. The sum of US$90 million is already available for this purpose. If there are towers that have not been activated, as mentioned by my elder brother, investigations will be conducted and an appropriate remedy provided. All that we need to do is bring that to the attention of the appropriate authorities.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, part (a) of the Question by the hon. Member for Kasempa is very specific. He would like to know why the palaces of Senior Chiefs Kasempa and Ingwe in Kasempa District were not considered for the construction of communication towers under Phase I of the project. This House is aware that Phase I was actually meant for the palaces and the list was distributed to all hon. Members of Parliament. It is from that angle that the hon. Member for Parliament for Kasempa is trying to find out why the two chiefdoms were left out. Is there any hope that they will be given the facilities which have been given to other chiefs in this country?

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, an appropriate response and reasons this has not been done will be availed to the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasempa after investigations have been  conducted.

Sir, Phase II of the project is going to cover the existing gap in areas which were unserved and two areas which were underserved, hence the purpose of Phase II of the Tower Installation Project. So, if the two royal highnesses were not served, they will be covered under Phase II.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Could the hon. Minister be kind enough to inform the House when Phase II of the project will commence.

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, we are at the tendering stage. Therefore, as soon as the tendering stage is over, the works will commence. The hon. Member may also wish to know that the duration for the completion of the project is eighteen months. As I said earlier, US$90 million is available for the project.

 I thank you, Sir.   


24.     Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)    what corporate social responsibility activities the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA) had conducted in Gwembe District from 2012 to 2014; and

(b)    what the total cost of the activities conducted was.
Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, from 2012 to 2014, the ZRA has conducted the following corporate social responsibility activities in Gwembe District:

(a)    in 2013, the ZRA upgraded the Nakenjele hammer mill unit from a single piston to a double piston diesel unit. It must be noted that the initial unit of the single piston was put up by the ZRA. So, in helping the people of Gwembe, the authority merely upgraded the facility at a cost of K14,900. Our colleagues may not know the total sum of this undertaking. So, I want to state that it also encompassed putting up infrastructure to house the hammer mill.

(b)    in 2013, a 1x2 bed-roomed house meant for the caretaker of the clinic in Hamatuba was constructed by the ZRA at a cost of K37,200. In the same year, the ZRA also procured medical equipment for the clinic at a cost of K45,000;

(c)    in 2014, the ZRA sponsored and facilitated the survey works and feasibility studies for the construction of Ganikongo Dam. These works and studies were sought by the Department of Water Affairs who have since constructed the dam in the area. The feasibility study that was undertaken by the ZRA cost more than K12,200; and

(d)    in 2014, the ZRA initiated the construction of the following infrastructure in Kota Kota Ward:

(i)    five classroom blocks and two teachers houses all valued at K420,000. This includes the administration block for the school; and

(ii)    the rehabilitation of a clinic. This area has a clinic; a project which was initiated by the hardworking hon. Member of Parliament for Gwembe Parliamentary Constituency using Constituency Development Funds (CDF). However, this facility needed solar power and a water reticulation system. This was funded by the ZRA at a cost of K60,000.

Mr Speaker, it must be noted that in addition to these facilities, the ZRA is also constructing two houses at the clinic valued at K630,000. In short, the works are in progress. So, for the period 2012 to 2014, the ZRA spent K169,300 on corporate social responsibility activities in Gwembe District.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister is a friend of mine.

Mr Speaker: I do not think that is a concern of the Speaker.

Mr Ntundu: However, I am very disappointed that two weeks ago, the ZRA donated seventy life jackets to the community in Gwembe. How can the ZRA donate seventy life jackets? I even told them to take back the life jackets and that I was going to buy some for the community using my money.

Mr Speaker: What is your question?

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, it is a joke for the whole of the ZRA should buy life jackets for the people of Gwembe when we know how much money it collects from the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) annually. How, then, can the ZRA give Gwembe a hammer mill worth K12,000, ...

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, I am still not following your debate. What is your question?

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out if the Government has any intentions of compelling the ZRA to give back to the people of Gwembe what it gets from the area and not a joker in the pack. The ZRA is collecting a lot of money from ZESCO, ...

Mr Speaker: I think, you have made your point.

Mr Musukwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has actually been adding more meat to my response. I am equally disappointed with my friend because he has been tolerating this state of affairs from the ZRA. When we checked the figures with the hon. Minister, we were compelled to clarify if they were correct. As the Government, we regret that the ZRA has not put in much effort in terms of corporate social responsibility, going by the figures that we have seen. Upon getting these figures, the Government issued instructions, through the Department of Water Affairs, to ensure that the ZRA responds sensibly to our people in its corporate social responsibility. In this regard, you will note that the hon. Minister has directed that he would like to see the ZRA increase its funding to the communities, especially towards education, infrastructure development in the health sector and the road network in the area as a way of supplementing the Government’s efforts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: You were almost killing the messenger.


Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, in the same vein, I would like to find out if the hon. Minister or the Government is going to compel the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO), which a major customer of the Zambezi River Authority (ZRA), to also carry out corporate social responsibility programmes in Lusaka which was initially occupied by the Lenje and Soli people. This is where the money is being made. So, is the company going to provide corporate social responsibility by making sure that the Solis and Lenjes are at the same level of development as people in other areas since they gave up their land where the capital city of Zambia is located?

Mr Speaker: That is a new question.


25.     Mr Musonda (Kapiri Mposhi) asked the Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs:

(a)    when the boundary dispute between Chief Malembeka in the Copperbelt Province and Senior Chief Chipepo in the Central Province would be resolved; and

(b)    what measures had been taken to address chiefdom boundary disputes countrywide.

The Minister of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs (Dr Katema): Mr Speaker, in an attempt to find a lasting solution to the chiefdom boundary dispute involving the two traditional leaders, meetings involving stakeholders from the Copperbelt and Central provinces, Office of the Surveyor-General, Ministry of Local Government and Housing and Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs have been instituted and are ongoing.

Mr Speaker, the last meeting, which was held in Kapiri Mposhi in March, 2015, resolved that a detailed physical inspection of the boundary between the chiefdoms be conducted with the guidance of the Office of the Surveyor-General, in consultation with the traditional councils from the two affected chiefdoms.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs has liaised with the Office of the Surveyor-General to undertake comprehensive identification and erect beacons on boundaries between conflicting chiefdoms.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, the source of conflict regarding chiefdom boundaries is the Office of the Surveyor-General. Is the hon. Minister aware that there is a map, which was drawn in 1958, which demarcates all the chiefdoms in Zambia? However, the office of the Surveyor-General has come up with a new map demarcating chiefdoms which is at variance with the original map of 1958, hence the conflicts like the one between Chieftainess Mungule and Chief Liteta in Central Province.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, we are talking about boundaries between Chieftainess Malembeka and Senior Chief Chipepo. What actually causes disputes is not the absence of defined boundaries. By and large, they are caused by subjects who migrate and insist on changing boundaries.


Dr Katema: They move from one chiefdom to another and still insist that they are subjects of the previous chief and are not under the chiefdom into which they have migrated. So, the onus is on all of us, leaders, to assist the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs to sensitise our people to leave their chiefs and headmen behind when they migrate.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Minister, maybe, you can also comment on the variance between the 1958 map and the map drawn by the Office of the Surveyor-General.

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, there is only one map, which is the one drawn by the Office of the Surveyor-General. There is no other authority which draws maps.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.




(Debate resumed)

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to have some reflections on the President’s Speech. I want to address the exposition of public policy in the President’s Speech which was delivered last week on Friday.

Mr Speaker, let me begin by expressing my disappointment. This is my tenth year in this House as hon. Member of Parliament. I have attended ten Presidential presentations to the House. Last week, however, I was very disappointed in the sense that …


Mr Speaker: Order!

Prof. Lungwangwa: … the decorum of the House was eroded. For the first time in my ten years of being in the House, I heard clapping, cheering and shouting, which never happens. This was an erosion of the decorum of the House and we should never allow it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: We saw hon. Ministers clapping and cheering. That is unacceptable and, as a senior hon. Member of the House, I take strong exception to that kind of behaviour. I hope my colleagues also do.


Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, having put that on record, the question now becomes: How should we understand the President’s Speech? The Speech by the President to the House is, of course, a presentation to the nation of the heart and mind of the President in the way that he sees the direction of the nation. Clearly, this speech must be critically scrutinised by all of us in order to see where we stand, as a nation, in the eyes of the President.

My focus will be more on the theme of the speech itself where the President says that he would like to see Zambia embracing a culture of transformation in order to establish a Smart Zambia. Well, transformation is at the centre of the current policy debate or dialogue on the African Continent, in view of Agenda 2063.

My analysis of the speech is that it was not deep enough to enable us to come to grips with the transformation agenda or paradigm as it is being debated on the African Continent. Clearly, when we look at the policy debate in Africa today, the focus is on the disappointment that has taken place over the last fifty years after most African countries got their independence. The development paradigm has been a disappointment because, at the moment, we have various categories of challenges on the continent. Of course, the focus of serious-minded Africans is on the policy direction and preparation of the new leadership for Africa over the next fifty years.

Now, what are these five challenges for Africa which, of course, are the context of this debate?

Firstly, it is the five enemies in the standard of living in the African peoples. These five enemies have to deal with poverty, unemployment, ignorance, hunger and disease. That is one of the challenges in terms of policy exposition on the African Continent.

The second enemy is in the delivery of services which has to do with mediocrity, inefficiency, indecision, ineffectiveness and low productivity.

The next enemy is in the area of good governance where, of course, intolerance, corruption, tribalism, nepotism and lawlessness are at the centre.

These are the critical areas which still continue to exist in many African countries and which have been the failure of the development paradigm on the African Continent. The focus now is that, we should be able to look at how these areas can be addressed if Africa is to make headway in addressing these predicaments over the next fifty years, thereby enabling Africa to be developed by 2063. That is where the heart and minds of presidents on the African Continent are at the moment. That is where the transformation agenda is directed.

What we were presented with on Friday is, to a large extent, not deep enough to delve into the transformation paradigm in order to transform our country. Now, the question is what are the parameters of the transformation of paradigm which, of course, ought to be the basis of the policy direction of our country?

Now, the various policy parameters which are at the centre of the policy dialogue on the African Continent are:
(a)    emphasis on placing a high premium on discovery, innovation, creativity and merit. African countries are being called upon to focus on that;

(b)    value in research, giving support to intellectuals and professionals on the African Continent, abandoning the status core of mediocrity, inertia, inefficiency, bureaucratic procrastination, policy and plans implementation paralysis and dependency on the so-called foreign experts. African countries must pay attention to that;

(c)    breaking new grounds through locally-grounded risk taking, research, creativity, innovation and entrepreneurship;

(d)    establishing measures to support and nurture local entrepreneurs, working towards knowledge and merit to be in charge of various activities in African countries and moving towards the emergency and dominancy of local expert knowledge and skills in various sectors if African countries are to make headway;

(e)    putting emphasis on practical application of knowledge and skills and not just the theoretical understanding of them.

(f)    establishing systems of education which put emphasis on practical study and not mere academic understanding;

(g)    paying attention and adherence to new ethos of doing things, especially in work place; and

(h)    putting emphasis on scientific management of the labour force with results orientation, work effectiveness and efficiency, evaluation of workers and appointments on merit, quality output and outcome.

Africa must pay attention to those areas if the transformation paradigm is to operate and if it is to direct policy more effectively. Also, giving less premium to exportation of raw materials and putting on more emphasis on manufacturing and economic diversity through strong manufacturing base. Africa has been an exporter of raw materials. The transformation paradigm wants to shift that to more in the areas of manufacturing and putting value on production of locally-manufactured products for both local consumption and export.

In the international relations, diplomacy and international relations should be defined in terms of finding space in the global market for local products. Also, transforming the dual economy and lowering the gap between rural and urban areas. This is the structural imbalance between the rural and urban areas. Africa must be able to narrow that gap. The rural areas must be transformed through prioritised investments which will, of course, ensure that rural poverty is addressed vigorously and seriously.

Mr Speaker, paying attention to knowledge, skills, attitudes and values of the human capital is fundamental.

Linking education skills training to economic policies, plans and programmes is cardinal and focusing more on the nation as the yardstick nature of social identity.

These, Mr Speaker, are the parameters of the transformation paradigm which, of course, ought to guide policy direction in our countries if Agenda 2063 is to be achieved. This calls for new leadership. This is where the speech falls short in terms of the depth of analysis, context and directing the country at the level of policy. Our colleagues who work very closely with the President should able to advise him in order to delve deeper in the transformation paradigm and be able to guide the nation. Instead of the speech just being a campaign launch pad, it should go beyond that and provide fundamental changes and address, not just the issue of a Smart Zambia. What is Smart Zambia?

We should be able to look at the standard of living of our people. Uplifting the standard of living of all our people should be our goal.

If these various parameters of the transformation paradigm are taken seriously, we should be able to see a Zambia that will change for the better in terms of policy and development. These aspects of the transformation paradigm should enable even us, hon. Members of Parliament, to look at what is happening in our respective constituencies differently.

Instead of celebrating, for example, when a school is being constructed, a Member of Parliament should be able to collect data on the impact of that school in terms of reducing ignorance and illiteracy and contributing, for example, to the quality of life of the people and generally on how the community is being impacted. That calls for even a new type of Member of Parliament. When a clinic is being constructed, instead of just celebrating the construction of the clinic, for example, we should be able to look at how that clinic is transforming the lives of the people so that eventually, all that information feeds into development policy, plans and strategies on how our communities generally are being uplifted.

This was the failure of the development paradigm and this is where the transformation paradigm is heading. This is where it is important for those of our colleagues who work closely with the President to advise him and give him a deeper understanding and analysis of where our country ought to go instead of just scratching on the surface that we want to develop a Smart Zambia. It is much more than that.

Mr Speaker, furthermore, there are, of course, areas in the speech that are very troublesome in terms of what has happened over the last four years. Look at the pronouncements, for example, on the construction of the new railway lines from Nseluka to Mpulungu, Serenje to Petauke all the way to Chipata, Livingstone to Katimamulilo, and Chingola to Jimbe. Some of these projects already had contractors identified way back in 2010 but, of course, were stopped. I know very well that there was a contractor conducting a survey on the Serenje/Petauke/Chipata Railway but was stopped.  The Nseluka/Mpulungu Railway Line was also stopped by our colleagues.
Mr Speaker, this should not happen. This is why when there is a transition in leadership, there should be a handover process. I think that this should be in our Constitution. There should be a handover process where those who are leaving office hand over to the next so that the country does not decelerate in its development process. It is most unfortunate that, for example, when our colleagues heard these pronouncements, they thought that they were new things. The country has been taken back and this is not acceptable.

Mr Speaker, the realignment of ministries must be justified in the context of the transformation agenda. For example, if we are going to have a Ministry of Higher Education, the various parameters of transformation that I stated here, the importance of research, creativity and innovation must be the justification.

Sir, I know that we had a Ministry of Higher Education before. Professor Goma was the first hon. Minister of Higher Education in this country.

Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: However, it was abandoned. Now, probably, we should be looking at it differently. Why should we have a Ministry of Higher Education? What are the current challenges of development in our country? How do we revamp and manage the mushrooming universities in the country so that we streamline the operations of our higher education institutions for the development of our nation?

 These are very serious issues and I feel very strongly that our colleagues who are in the Executive must discuss the theme and the paradigm of the speech much more seriously so that it can contribute to the policy dialogue and debate which is taking place on the African Continent.

Mr Speaker, if you interact with others within the region, this is the kind of debate they are having. In South Africa, I know that President Mbeki has been at the centre of this kind of debate. Other serious minded leaders on the African Continent are also at the centre of this debate. Therefore, if we are to be in this kind of trajectory of debate, we must also be profound in the way that we address the transformation agenda, including the challenge of addressing the illicit flow of cash out of Africa. Africa is losing US$50 billion every year through illicit flow. How do we address this issue? This is part of the transformation agenda of the African Continent.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to add my voice to the debate on the speech by the Head of State on Friday.

Mr Speaker, to start with, I want us to look at where we are coming from and where we are going. Later on, I will bring in the President’s Speech so that we are able to move together.
Mr Speaker, Zambia used to be a one-party democracy. Some gallant men and women came together and said that Zambia’s development had been hindered because freedoms and expressions cannot come out in a one party democracy. Ideas of development were only vested in the ruling elite. So, people came together and decided to form a multi-party democracy.

Mr Speaker, the people who brought about this concept were also cognisant of the fact that it could bring divisions. However, they defined what they were looking for. I remember Dr Kabunda Kayongo saying that: “What we are looking for is a way of having unity in diversity.” You saw most of the rallies that were held. I lost my job for supporting the movement of multi-partism.

Sir, we were looking at a Zambia which was accommodating and where people could differ in ideas but not as Zambians. Today, we have embraced multi-partism. In the first multi-party Government, we were not looking for a brilliant or exceptional person. We were looking for a Zambian who could move Zambia forward. If you remember, Dr Frederick Titus Jacob Chiluba was not on the agenda. However, because of his outstanding leadership in the labour movement in Zambia, he was called upon to lead the movement. So, it was not a matter of one being born to be a leader. People chose Mr Chiluba.

Mr Speaker, if you may recall, the first Government, which Mr Chiluba formed, was an all inclusive Government which picked the best of the best in Zambia. However, today’s politics have changed. I would say that we, the people, have changed the politics. Now, it is a matter of: “Since Jonas Shakafuswa is Lenje, therefore, when he becomes the Head of State, he takes all the development to the Lenje land.” The other people who will not have development will also agitate for power so that they take development to their motherland. This has now become the norm in Zambian politics. Are you sure this is what the pioneers of multi-partism wanted?

Mr Speaker, I will be very honest. I have found myself in politics where regional divide has become the norm. Today, there is this notion that the Bembas are our enemies as Tongas.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Katuba, I do not think that I will allow you to proceed on these lines. Yes, you said you were going to give a preface but, please, let us not veer off the thrust of our business. When you take that trajectory, it becomes a source of anxiety.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I think you have not heard me.

Mr Speaker, today, this issue has to come out. Otherwise, Zambians at the end of the day, will be going round in circles. I move in circles where my friends say that they can never vote for a Tonga person to be the president. This has to come out. If this does not come out, then at the end of it all, Zambia will remain divided. So, this has to come out.  I beg your indulgence, this has to come out because I want to bring it out. Zambia, today, is not defined by political excellence. It is defined by tribal factional divisions.

Mr Speaker: Order!

That is the kind of terminology I would encourage you to approach.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, people are now allowing groupings that have led to one group being against another group. This is un-Zambian.

Mr Speaker, I will come back to the speech.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, last time, I said that what the President brings to the House is a skeleton and, later on, the hon. Minister of Finance comes and gives his Budget Speech, which adds meat to the skeleton. Then, as the ministries start functioning, the skeleton starts walking. I was fired from my ministerial job when someone told his Excellency the President that Jonas said that his speech was a skeleton. As someone who has worked in the Government before, this is how the Government is. All ministries come up with the works that they are going to do in a particular year. All the President does is to come and read what his intentions are in that particular year. The Patriotic Front (PF) is in the Government today, but this is not a PF Government. The PF members are just in the Government as managers. This Government belongs to the people of Zambia, and the people in the PF should not come and pride themselves with this work. Look at the trajectory and whatever Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa was talking about.


Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, why not work with people like Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa because there is only one Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa and there will not be another one who is better than him. However, if there is another one who is better than him, you should put them together and this country will move forward. Why should a development agenda and the governing of the country be a priority of a particular group that came into power, maybe, not because they had the best brains, but because the people wanted change? Why not look for people who are capable of coming together to help develop the country?

Mr Speaker, I am not going to wait until the United Party for National Development (UPND) is in power for me to do something...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: ... because we would have lost a year between now and the next election. The people who have a heart for the people of Zambia have to come out and solve this problem for Zambia. The problem we have got is a Zambian problem and, from what I am seeing, not all of us have are endowed with wisdom by God to offer solutions.

Mr Speaker, I think all us, especially us, politicians, should be to blame for the energy crisis we are faced with at the moment. The Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) has been complaining about the energy tariffs not being economical. I remember that in our time, we summoned ZESCO to the Ministry of Finance to tell us what was happening in the country, and ZESCO told us that it takes a minimum five years for a good turbine to be designed and to come off the shelf. I want someone to challenge me. If you want a turbine from China, which takes two years to construct, it will let you down. Therefore, investment into hydropower stations is not something you can do in one , two ,or three years. It can take about six years or seven years for it to bear the fruits. We started the project in Itezhi-tezhi but, when was it commissioned? We could not rush it. The other thing, which we are forgetting, is that Zambia has the best freshwater in the region. Which investors have we got in Zambia who can put up hydropower stations? If we come up with good economic incentives, we can attract foreign investors to come and invest not only in hydropower stations, but also in solar farms, wind turbines and steam turbines to help alleviate this problem. When you are in the Executive and you want to increase the electricity tariffs, people will say they will not afford the tariffs. When you give the people what they want, you end up with a crisis like the one we have at the moment because we have not had investments in hydropower. I will blame myself because I was in the Government. When I was in the Government, did we do enough? When these people were in the Opposition, did they do enough? They opposed each good move that the Government wanted to make because they wanted to be the darling of the people, and yet at the end of the day, they were ‘killing’ the country.

Mr Speaker, I was discussing with someone that there is a problem of rainfall. Have we looked at the amount of water which is being pumped from the mines? Have we thought of using that water an alternative to the crisis we are facing? Why not create canals for that water because I have seen the kind of water which is being pumped from the Konkola Deep Mine and going to waste. God will laugh at us and say that we are suffering in the midst of plenty.

Mr Mwale: You are speaking like Mr Muliokela.

Mr Shakafuswa: Hon. Minister, yes, I am talking like Mr Muliokela, but ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Address the Speaker.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, those who have been in the Government before and those in the current Government are to blame for this crisis. What I am looking for is a Zambian solution. Look at the brains on this side. Are you sure that if you commit the brains on this side, you will not get a solution? They will not even get the credit and say that they are the ones who have helped you. It is you who are going to get the credit for having worked.

Mr Speaker, when I was at the Ministry of Finance, we introduced the Department of Planning, and we had a Permanent Secretary for that department. In the year that the Department of Planning was operationalised in the Ministry of Finance, we saved about K900 billion, which the spending agencies could not spend. Why? We came up with the Department of Planning so that we could plan. When you make a plan, you budget. When your budget is approved, and you say how you are going to execute it, the Department of Planning starts monitoring the expenditure. Why should a school which has a bill of quantity with an extra 20 per cent of the money in case of currency appreciating, still be at slab level after all the money has been expended? We discovered that people were pocketing the money so that they would budget for the same school in the next Budget. The Department of Planning was charged with the responsibility of monitoring how the Budget was performing, evaluate the problems and report back. People stopped spending money because they knew that they could not steal. In our days, Hon. Chikwanda, a contractor would give a bill of quantity and say that he was going to use granite, which was not available in a particular area, but that he would go and get it from Kafue or Ndola. We brought what we called a carrot. We would go and dig out the road to find out whether that person had put the material which is very expensive, and which was in the bidding documents. We used the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) under the Anti-Money Laundering Act to put a lot of people in jail. We got many officers arrested.

This is how people started now running away from the money. An unspent K900 billion would make a difference. You go and look at the bill of quantities for most of the major road works, you will find that they have appreciated from, say US$10 million to US$20 million. In my time, we would ask the contractor why works, which were supposed to cost US$10 million, had increased to US$20 million and, if someone had pocketed the money, they would go in for money laundering.

Mr Speaker, as flowery as this speech is, we need to walk the talk and, walking the talk is not for the Patriotic Front (PF) alone. They may be in the Government, but we have seen some of their failures. There are many Zambians out there who can be engaged to assist with solutions. Do not go to ng’angas, banging your heads …


Mr Shakafuswa: … to look for solutions everywhere. There are Zambians who are capable of helping. For me, …

Mr Speaker: What do you mean by ng’angas?

Mr Shakafuswa: Witchdoctors.

Mr Speaker: Oh, I see.

Mr Shakafuswa: In my opinion, we should never see a divide where we look at one side as an enemy of the other. In Zambia, we have no enemies. Nowadays, multi-partism is defined by hatred. We have merchants of hate who make huge sums of money from running tabloids that worship and prophesy hatred and give sermons of hate. As Zambians, we have to move away from such kind of reasoning.

Mr Speaker, I have the best example of a democratic family. My son, who is my best friend, is a PF Councillor. How did he become a PF councillor? At one time, the PF and the United Party for National Development (UPND) became bedfellows. Just because you have divorced your wife does not mean that you have to become enemies. That is ridiculous thinking.

When the PF and the UPND were marrying, what did they see in each other? What attracted them to each other? Today, you are at each other’s throats. I am happy today because I am able to engage the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu. I am also proud because most of the things we have discussed have come in his speech. Most of the things that I have discussed with President Edgar Lungu have come in his speech. I have told him that there is no need to regulate politicians when they want to meet and so the Public Order Act should be removed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Why should politicians be regulated? At the end of the day, they are the people who will give the President credit for, at least, harmonising the political scenario.

Ms Kalima: Well spoken!

Mr Shakafuswa: There are people who give him credit. We do not have to have conflict every day. When the President said that there will be a day of national prayer, some people said that he will go alone. If you want to lead, ask God to guide you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: God has to come to this country. If you think you will rule without God, He will not give you wisdom. This is why the men who led nations in the Bible sought the wisdom of the Lord. You might hate President Edgar Lungu, but he is not saying that you should seek his wisdom. Go to church and let God harmonise this situation so that this hatred, which is reigning in this country, is removed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: I will be very honest with you. I am thinking of quitting politics because I cannot find relevance in this political dimension. When I came here, I was very annoyed because there were pangas and lawlessness being promoted by the State. I told the President that this was madness and that the pangas should be removed from the streets …

Mr Sianga: But they are still there!

Mr Shakafuswa: … and that the bus stops and markets should be cleaned up. If you go there today, the people who used to make arrests are no longer there. At the end of the day, I engage the President but remain UPND.


Hon. Government Member: His Excellency!

Mr Shakafuswa: I am UPND but I still engage the President. He has not even given me – okay he wanted to give me a ministerial position, but I declined the offer because I wanted to contribute to the checks and balances.


Mr Shakafuswa: So, if I had become Minister …

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, you have begun debating yourself and other exploits. Confine yourself to the Motion.

Mr Shakafuswa: What I am saying is that my engaging the Government does not stop me from being an Opposition Member of Parliament.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: In this House, if a Motion is moved, and I feel that the Government has not done well, I will vote against the Government. If you bring a Motion that will move the country forward, I will vote with you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: The bottom line, however, is that we are Zambians who are trying to move the country forward and, in so doing, there are no enemies. If you are in-charge tomorrow, you have to look after your enemies.

Sir, this thing of hon. Ministers and Members of Parliament bragging in here that development has been taken to their areas should come to a stop. I want to say that this is not your country alone, but I want to say it in Lenje.

Mr Speaker: No, I would rather you limit yourself to English.

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, Hon. Chishimba Kambwili usually uses Bemba words in here and you allow it.


Mr Shakafuswa: I also want to express myself in my native language so that I do it clearly.


Mr Shakafuswa: Ichi chishi teshichanu nwenka. Ichi chishi nchesu tonse.


Mr Shakafuswa: It means that this country is not for the PF alone but for all of us. You take development to his constituency (pointing at Hon. Mbulakulima) which you have not done from the time you came into the Government.

Sir, Mungule, Katuba, is where Chief Lusaka is.

Mr Mwale: A road is being constructed.

Mr Shakafuswa: Which road are you constructing?


Mr Shakafuswa: We are the ones who gave you the capital. What are you giving us in return? Meanwhile, you want to come and brag that you have got electricity in your huts and tarred roads in your villages when, just near here, my chief has no road. I have no secondary school in Katuba and you come here to tell me that you are building universities in your areas. This is why hatred will never cease.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Make a general agenda and make it a national one. Ne nkwamba ayi ichi chishi nchabantu bonse, teshi chishi chanu.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Please, before you conclude, just translate the last statement for the record.

Mr Shakafuswa: All I am saying, as I wind up, is that you guys on that side should not think that this country belongs to you alone.

Mr Speaker: No, they are not guys.

Mr Shakafuswa: Okay, you, hon. Members, …


Mr Shakafuswa: … on the right of Mr Speaker should not think that this country is yours alone. It belongs to all of us. If you walk the talk of this speech, you will see the tension go out. You must remove the Public Order Act. We love Ms Stella Libongani. I am impressed that we have a female Vice-President for the first time, and proudly so, but not as proud as I am that we have the first female Inspector-General of Police. She should be in the archives due to her exceptional performance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Now you are debating an individual who is not here. Save her.


Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I want to thank you most sincerely for giving me this opportunity to make some contributions to this important Motion. From the outset, I want to state that the debates have so far been good. Oftentimes, when we debate, we want to say …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mbulakulima: I will continue after the break.


Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[Mr SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mbulakulima: Before business was suspended, I was saying so far so good in our debates, in the sense that we are often at each other’s throats. Some people claim that this is a fantastic speech as if it came from heaven while others say it is empty and hollow and so on and so forth. However, I ask myself what really constitutes a good speech. Is it not just the state of mind sometimes? You rarely follow the contents. I believe that sometimes it comes down to the state of mind. You will recall, not long ago, when we merged ministries, there was a lot of euphoria. I want to mention that these ministries were scientifically arrived at by the able Government of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). However, our colleagues insisted that what they were doing was the best. On Friday, however, we saw the same situation being reversed and there was a lot of cheering ...


Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Mbulakulima: ... here and there.

Mr Speaker, let me also echo Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa’s debate. He said that he has been in the House for the past ten years. I have been in the House for the same period, and I know a number of colleagues who are clocking ten years. Even those who are now clocking five years should admit that what we saw on Friday was unprecedented and unparliamentary. For the first time in the history of this House, we saw hon. Members of this House clapping, cheering and shouting. That is not supposed to be the situation. However, when the Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa mentioned it, again, I heard some murmurs.

Sir, like I always say, we act like we are footballers and that should not be the case. Even when a footballer commits a genuine foul, he does not accept his mistake.


Mr Mbulakulima: I hope that you, Sir, as a neutral referee in this regard will help us.

Mr Speaker, like I said, I think the speech just gives direction, but what we are interested in is the implementation, as tangible results at the end of the day are what will matter to the people of Zambia. We are very worried about the narrow partisan interest that we exhibit. Not long from now, the Bill on the Constitution shall come to the House and we shall see the narrow interest prevailing over the national interest.

This should not be the case. You always ask us, the Opposition, to be practical and offer solutions or alternatives. When we criticise, we mean well. So, it is important that you listen. Admittedly, I should mention that there were some ‘flashes’ in the speech that was delivered by the President on some issues, but a lot leaves much to be desired.

Mr Speaker, one good issue that the President spoke about is that of the housing for Former Presidents. I also admit that it has not been a good law. If a former Head of State cannot look after himself, then, who will? I think what the President said ought to be supported. This programme has not been developmental. I agree that the retired Heads of State must take care of themselves. I am glad that the current President, who is my neighbour, has a decent house he can live in. He is not right in the chabeta (Chawama). So, he can fit in, in settle in that area.

Mr Speaker, the other positive issue the President talked about is the setting up of a national airline. This is good news although it has been on the drawing board for a long time. In the second year of the Patriotic Front (PF) in the Government, such pronouncements were made. That is why we are saying that it is not the content of the speech that is important, but the ultimate goal.

Sir, the revitalisation of the Zambia Air Services Training Institute (ZASTI) is long overdue. This used to be a high profile institution, but it has been run down. Therefore, there is a need for us to revamp it.

Mr Speaker, in the energy sector, I think the President did relatively well in his speech. However, just like his hon. Minister, he did not give us direction. He did not give us much hope with regard to the problem of power by not stating when it will come to an end. We know that energy is a critical ingredient in national development. Our style of debate in this House is such that when we, on this side, have debated, you will try to make your debate flowery as if heaven is falling. I think that is not fair. The economic malaise the country is facing where USD$11 is almost equivalent to K1 is unprecedented. However, the President did not touch on the volatility of the kwacha in his speech. Where does that leave us? The cost of living in this country has gone up. The cost of doing business has also gone up. Zambia is no longer the preferred investment destination that it used to be because the cost of doing business has become high. I expected the President to explain some of the measures that his Government has taken to arrest the situation. At the moment, we cannot pretend that things are alright in the economy. If you going to say that everything is fine, then, you should go back and read some speeches that were read in this House by the Late President Dr Mwanawasa, for instance. They were brilliant. This is not the best speech as you will want to put it. A lot of issues were not actually tackled in this speech.

Mr Speaker, the fluctuation of the kwacha has an impact on our economy because we shall spend more on servicing the external debt. This will result in more misery for the people of Zambia. So, there is a need for us to seriously address this situation.

Sir, let me talk about the splitting of ministries. As we said earlier, this idea might sound good – and I know that it will be supported, going by the numbers in the House. However, we need to ask ourselves whether this is the right time to make such changes when the country is ‘bleeding’.

Ms Imenda: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: The concept of splitting ministries is good, but it is the timing that I do not support. How can the Government create four or six ministries when the country is ‘bleeding’ and there is a cost attached to this? The new ministries will require Ministers, Deputy Ministers, Permanent Secretaries and Directors who will need emoluments and personal-to-holder vehicles. So, while that might be a brilliant idea, looking at the economic situation in the country, I think it is not the right thing to do. In the same vein, the creation of districts was not a bad idea, but it was the manner in which it was done and the negative effect it was going to have on the National Budget that we were against because it increases the deficit in the National Budget. The creation of ministries, just like the creation of districts, will bring about an ‘outbreak’ of appointments …


Mr Mbulakulima: … and that has a negative effect on the Budget.

Mr Speaker, I expected the President to make strong pronouncements on the mining sector because it still remains the backbone of our country. We can talk of diversification, but how long will that take and how far are we from achieving that objective? Today, the mining sector is not contributing positively to the gross domestic product (GDP). The sector has been affected by the inconsistency in policies. We make policies today and change them tomorrow. As a result, we are not getting anything from the mining sector. That is why the kwacha is depreciating at this rate. So, this Government must face the reality because there is no new investment in the mining sector. At the moment, there is low morale among the workers and we are faced with the challenge of job losses in the mining sector. The result of all this is what we see today, that is, lack of growth in the economy. So, there will be no growth in the economy as long as we do not address the situation. Today, our economic growth is 5.8 per cent. Most of you that have read widely will agree with me that even a country like the Central African Republic, which is trying to get out of a war situation, is projecting its growth at 5.6 per cent, and yet Zambia is more peaceful and stable.
Sir, the President also talked about street vendors creating co-operatives. I should say that the President missed the opportunity to come clean on the issue of street vending.

Today, Lusaka is not only one of the ugliest cities, but is also an eye sore and an embarrassment to the international community. Our pride is centred on the Great East Road where there are shopping malls. It is agonising to go into the central business district (CBD) of Lusaka.

Sir, three years ago, our colleagues in South Africa abandoned Johannesburg in preference for smaller towns. This is exactly what we have done in Zambia. We have abandoned the CBD because we cannot find parking space. While the issue of vendors forming co-operatives might sound good, a solution should be found to this impending problem. My fear is that as we approach the general elections, there will be politics of appeasement which might not be good. I thought that now is the time for the President to face the issue of street vending squarely.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: We are postponing the problem. Like I have always said, he who fights and runs away lives to fight another day. Therefore, someone has to confront the challenge of street vending some day.

Mr Speaker, the President also said that he will continue meeting with the chiefs. However, I shudder to believe that there is a traditional or cultural crisis in this country today. What we have is an economic crisis. Yes, I agree that chiefs are stakeholders and an integral part of the development of this country. Therefore, there is a need for the President to meet them. However, it is not necessary to go on a crusade of meeting chiefs. I thought that, for once, the President would, probably, talk about the Zambia Centre for Inter-party Dialogue to enable him meet the stakeholders in politics in order to chart the way forward. Instead, his emphasis was on meeting the chiefs. Dear colleagues, this will not serve our country.

Mr Speaker, on Page 7 of the speech, the President also mentioned the promotion of cost-effective operations in the Government to eliminate abuse of public resources. Yes, this is good, but I thought the President should have made a difference by talking about the Office of Auditor-General.

Sir, year in and year out, the Auditor-General’s Office does a tremendous job of highlighting the misapplication and abuse of funds, and yet no Head of State has tackled this issue squarely. The Auditor-General’s Report is getting bigger and bigger every year. With the respect and support to that office, I believe that Zambia can save a lot of resources. I, therefore, believe that His Excellency the President is glossing over this issue. How, then, is he going to arrest the situation?

 Mr Speaker, when I compare the strengths and weaknesses of the speech, the net effect is that it is just as ordinary as most of the speeches that we have heard.

Sir, with these non-controversial remarks from the National Secretary of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) that is waiting to form the next Government in 2016, …


 Hon. Government Members: Bayama! Bayama!

Mr Mbulakulima: … and bring sanity to this country …

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear! That is sanity!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, we cannot afford to see a situation where, not long ago, in 2011, the economic growth rate was 7.3 per cent but, today, we are envisaging that we shall achieve 6 per cent economic growth. What is the purpose of having change? We left US$3.6 billion dollars in reserves.


Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Mbulakulima: The Government cannot claim to have found an empty Treasury. The Patriotic Front (PF) found an economic base already laid for them. Copper production was above 840,000 metric tonnes but, today, it is less than 700,000 metric tonnes. The country has gone down in every area. It is on that basis that we, the MMD, intend to reclaim power and put back this country where it is supposed to be.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to take this opportunity to commend our Government and its representatives in this House. I include His Excellency the President and, in this context, the Governor of the Bank of Zambia for taking a mature attitude towards the problem of the market crisis because it could have gone much worse.

Sir, I am not saying it is a nice story which we would like to happen again. What I am saying is that given that it happened, there are various things that could have gone wrong. The exchange control regulations could have been re-introduced immediately. We know, from our experience, as mature politicians and students of economics, that that does not work however much we want it to work. It keeps all investors out. There are many people with millions and billions of dollars which they would like to keep in Zambia or have just removed from Zambia. However, they do not want to put it back where it is trapped by an exchange fence. So, controversial as it may be, I would say that they have exhibited maturity. It is not difficult to see where some of the maturity is coming from. Forty-one years ago, our hon. Minister of Finance presented his first Budget to this House. Now, forty-one years later, which is more than double his age, he is in charge of the economy again.


Dr Scott: Sir, I knew him when he was still a youngster. I am sure that if something like this had happened at that time, he would have reached for his statutory instruments, left and right, and started shooting from the hip, except he already had the statutory instrument then. So, he did not have to do that. Now, he is able to take this as a negative market occurrence that needs to be market-managed, if I can put it that way.

Mr Speaker, the Governor of the Bank of Zambia is also a very experienced manager of these issues. We could have easily ended up throwing billions of dollars at this problem and not actually have achieved the solution. So, in this world of imperfects where nothing is as you would like it to be, I am glad that things are a little bit better than they might have been. I just hope that the hon. Minister does not come to this House with his new Budget next week or whenever and oblige me to withdraw my congratulations. I would rather not be forced to do that.

Sir, I just want to talk a lit bit about the side issue of maturity in the Government. My idea or take on various Parliaments and forms of Government institutions across the world is that they contain veterans and wise men and women, champions of the State who are a repository of this kind of stability and institutional memory and realism. I am sure Her Honour the Vice-President has been of great help to this Government. She can remember even longer back than I can because she is three years older and she is also part of what I would like to see as the establishment of the House of Lords presence of wise people who had had, like in her case, a whole life in politics, having been married to a very senior politician, to still bring help. I hope the idea that she seems to be currently selling out is a printing mistake of some sort because the last time she moved a Motion that the House adjourns, she said:

“I urge the hon. Members of Parliament, as they move around their constituencies, to identify young people who can be mentored into future leaders. We need to pass the baton to some of the young people who aspire to be politicians. Perhaps, this message is for hon. Members who have been in this House for the last twenty or twenty-five years.”

Mr Speaker, there is not a single hon. Member of Parliament who has been in this House even for fifteen years. I am in my third term and about twelve other people. We are the longest serving hon. Members. There are the two-termers and some of them have even been speaking earlier. However, most hon. Members are one-termers.

Sir, this Parliament is a body that suffers from instability and fluidity. Most hon. Members have to learn from first principles of legislation. There are, however, few who know these principles and can teach them.

Mr Mbulakulima: That is correct!

Dr Scott: So, we should not sacrifice the composition of this House just to pacify our cadres or anything of that sort. Passing on the baton of leadership should not be a question of short-term political convenience. The composition of this House is as good as the collective wisdom this country gets and we should ensure that it is strengthened and available to whatever the Government is doing. If some of the chaps – sorry, not chaps …


Dr Scott: If some of the hon. Members on the front benches of your left agree with me, I must be on the right track …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: … because there is nothing else I agree with them on.


Dr Scott: I am a practical kind of person. I am a counter and I do not know how many times I have had to count the word ‘diversification’. I have heard Her Honour the Vice-President and many others in this House say that we need to diversify our economy so that we have something else to sell for United States Dollars. We need to diversify from just exporting copper which, at the moment, is not worth very much in United States Dollars.

I sat down with my friends to take a case example of how we can diversify and chose a commodity. Ideally, we looked at producing a commodity which involved adding value to copper, since we have plenty of it. Although we looked at this from an economic point of view, we also took into consideration the environment and chose something which is generally simple to make in Kalingalinga or somewhere like that.

Sir, we came up with a solar geyser. The hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry should know that Zambia is the only country in the world which does not make solar geysers. We get solar geysers from South Africa or China. We give other people our copper and they engineer it into pipes, radiators and so on and so forth to make a solar heater and send it back to Zambia where it is bought for a high price. At the prime of the last election, I think the Government bought and installed solar geysers on roof tops houses of police officers’ houses.


Dr Scott: Other countries also use our copper in many other ways. We cannot even supply ourselves with a simple heating instrument which captures the sun’s energy. The sun’s basic function is to warm up the earth. All that we need to help the sun heat our water is a simple instrument.  Solar geysers really work and I have switched over to them. The water is hot even at the crack of down.

Therefore, I wonder how we are such poor diversifiers that we are unable to produce this elementary object. This is a no-brainer, as they say in east England. One does not even need a brain to make these things. What is the problem? So, my friends and I consulted some businessmen. As usual, there was a long list of complaints. There are various issues that came up and I think the Government needs to attend to them.

The first one, of course, is the interest rate. If you are going to import a machine for making copper pipes, which also will be very useful in plumbing, because we import it for that as well, you need to borrow money. If your interest rate is 27 or 28 per cent, which it is at the moment, and you are trying to fight against the Chinese who are at 6 per cent and South Africans at about 9 per cent, you will lose. It is a very straightforward trade off. I mean you just look at the numbers side by side. You do not have to be mystified by it. This strays into straight based policy of trying to stop the private sector from borrowing money, but what is one to do in order to strengthen the currency market.

We are trying to stop the private sector and leave the Government unhindered in borrowing money. Hence this negative effect that you are sitting there and sending a customer to China over something which is not at all sophisticated, but is made on the other side of the world. You have to put it on a ship and bring it on a truck.

The second concern that was frequent among all the businessmen we were discussing with was they keep writing to the multi-facility economic zone (MFEZ) management and applying for plots to build factories on the 2,000 hectare establishment on the Leopards Hill Road.

Mr Speaker, there are two factories there, each of them about one hectare in a 2,000 hectare plot. Not even 1 per cent of the land has been used. There is a barley malting plant for Zambian Breweries to make lager, a small installation for a pharmacist to make pills and an office.

It is like – I do not know whether hon. Members can remember because it was many years ago – there was a film called Pirates Texas. I am sure Hon. Simuusa knows it because he plays the guitar.

Mr Simuusa laughed.

Dr Scott: This person in the film loses his memory and he is seen wondering around what looks like the MFEZ. It is a vast tract of bush with massive power lines and six-lane highways and people going from nowhere to nowhere. This fellow is stuck in Texas in the bush unable to know where and which way he should go.

Mr Speaker, it might be educational for us, as Parliament, to view the movie and see how he got out of the bush with the lack of development and proceeded from there. So, I think we should, somebody said, “walk the talk”. I agree with this. We used to do it in my office. We said, “If your mention the word ‘potential’ one more time, you pay K50.00 and again…


Dr Scott: … and, again, a K100.00.” We all got drunk on the money that one sacrificed talking about potential and still the potential is just thin air.

This diversification is the same word basically. It is the same idea, but there is no actual, touchable, tangible, graspable reality to it unless you get in and look at the dirty details and make them come our way, as well as stop the corruption that also surrounds the licences and the number of organisations from the Zambia Bureau of Standards to the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA), the Energy Regulation Board, you can go on and on. You will never get a chance to actually make your geyser in this country because you are too busy trying to find the person who is supposed to be in the office.

Sir, , I think I will just conclude my contribution because the story very nearly came out yesterday when the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development was responding to a question from your left hand side where the answer was, “No, it is just a regulator.”


Dr Scott: The question was what the Zambia Revenue Authority’s powers are as I understand it. Not the Zambia Revenue Authority but the Zambezi River Authority.

When the Kariba Dam was built and the power station on the southern bank was also built during the Federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland, there was no competition between the two nations. There were no two owners, but only one which was the federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland.

When the federation split, the power station was kept as a unitary entity operated by a company called the Central African Power Corporation (CAPCO) whose function was to operate this on a rule based neutral basis and ensure that both owners got their fair share. Even the power station in Zimbabwe, as it became, or Rhodesia, we, as Zambia, owned half of it. They also owned half of the so-called power station on the north side except it was very complicated because of having to evade sanctions by the World Bank by legal finangling. For some reason, we decided to split. I think it was in the 1990s. We decided to split this organisation so that we, as Zambia, have our power station, whereby if we want to turn it on, we turn it on and if we want to turn it off, we turn it off. There is a regulator now in place of CAPCO who is supposed to tell us that no, you cannot do that. This is part of the background to the story.

The timer in the Chamber went off.

Dr Scott: I will get another twenty minutes.


Dr Scott: Do not worry, Sir. It does not really work that way. Basically, what we have now is a weak regulator sitting between two puppies drinking milk from the same saucer. If one does not lick fast enough, it will not get as much as the other one. The equity between and the neutrality of that installation has got to be restored somehow by effectively bringing back the judgmental status of the neutral body and the discipline between the two countries.

Sir, it is terribly difficult to have a situation where a whole sovereign country can be regulated by a foreign regulator. It cannot happen. It needs to be built into something which you can rely upon such that you are not going to finish the water by September and then look for another source like the ship stranded on the shores of Mozambique.

Sir, this has been made much worse by the 360 MW contraption which was turned on last year. I am the one who turned it on and I said, “Is there enough water for this?” It was a huge contraption and everybody said yes, but we were only taking the peeks, anyway. When I went to sleep at the hotel down from the Kariba Dam, all night and morning the water gushed past. Once they had their toy, they pushed the button, turned it on and left it and down went the water.

I think it is a legal managerial issue, hon. Minister, that has to be addressed. It is not just a technical issue. It is very difficult to share hydro electric facilities with other countries. It is extremely difficult between two countries. It is a well-known problem throughout the world and I think it needs to be addressed.

With these few words, I will end my contribution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chishimba (Kamfinsa): Mr Speaker, I thank you, and I will be very brief so that I work within the remaining time.

Mr Speaker, first and foremost, in supporting the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Address, which was ably moved by the Member of Parliament for Luanshya, Hon. Stephen Chungu, and seconded by Hon. Namugala from Mafinga, I will refer to page 6 of the Address on which there is a well-thought statement which says, “We need to change the way we think, behave and do things. Zambians deserve the very best.”

Mr Speaker, we are the conduit between the Executive and the people we represent. We have to do things and behave the way the people who elected us expect us to behave. We need to add value to what the Government intends to do for the people we represent. I say this because I have been hearing some sentiments from us, the people who have been elected to represent the masses. I have heard some of us say that the Government does little or nothing in our constituencies. This is attributable to the way we transmit information from the people to the Government. We are supposed take developmental issues from our constituencies to the ministries. I want to put the challenge to us leaders sitting here. How have we interacted with the ministries to ensure that issues which affect the people in our constituencies are addressed by the line ministries? I want to thank His Excellency the President for the well-thought address that was meant for all of us hon. Members of Parliament sitting here to go and explain to the people in our constituencies.

Mr Speaker, in his address, His Excellency the President outlined some of the challenges our country is faced with such as load shedding and how they can be addressed on a long term to enable the country move forward. I want to commend the Ministry of Mines, Energy and Water Development for coming up with strategic measures in conjunction with the Copperbelt Energy Corporation (CEC) a few days ago to mitigate the effects of load shedding. The CEC has partnered with the Government set up a hydropower station in Kabompo. I think that this is a commendable way of doing things. The President gave policy direction to the ministries. I would also like to thank the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications. When the President gave policy direction on issues pertaining to infrastructure development, the people on the Copperbelt felt the importance of ...

Mr Chishimba paused.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Continue, hon. Member, you still have time.

Mr Chishimba: Yapwa inshita, ba Speaker.


Mr Speaker: Order!


The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1916 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 24th September, 2015.