Tuesday, 21st July, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER
_________

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that in the absence of Her Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other important Government business, Hon. Alexander B. Chikwanda, MP, Minister of Finance, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Tuesday 21st July, 2015, until further notice.

Thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

________

MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

ACTS OF VIOLENCE IN KITWE

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to issue a ministerial statement in respect of the acts of violence that happened in Kitwe, in response to the point of order raised by Hon. Jack Mwiimbu on the same.

Mr Speaker, on 15th July, 2015, the United Party for National Development (UPND) had a provincial conference in Kitwe where the party president, Mr Hakainde Hichilema, was the Guest of Honour. The Zambia Police Force was notified about this function, which was scheduled to start at 0800 hours, at the Kitwe Show Grounds. The convenors of the meeting were advised to adhere to the guidelines of the notification and avoid places that were not mentioned in the notice.

Mr Speaker, Mr Hakainde Hichilema arrived in Kitwe around 1045 hours and went directly to the Greek Olive Club in Nkana West where he met the UPND party officials for a briefing. From there, he visited Kandabwe and St Anthony compounds where he greeted residents before finally proceeding to the UPND Secretariat in Chachacha Township.

Mr Speaker, the confusion started at the UPND Secretariat as some suspected Patriotic Front (PF) cadres tried to disrupt the meeting. However, police officers controlled the situation. The motor vehicle which was used by the cadres was abandoned at the scene and, upon searching it, an axe, a matchet and a hip of stones were found. The vehicle was accordingly impounded.

Mr Speaker, the UPND president, with his entourage, proceeded to the Kitwe Show Grounds where the conference ended incident free. After the conference, the entourage proceeded to Moba Hotel to wait for a paid-up radio programme at Radio Ichengelo which was scheduled for 1810 hours.

Mr Speaker, during this time, the radio station announced the hosting of the UPND president in the studio. This attracted a number of people who thronged the station and demanded that the management should not air the programme. Due to the hostility, the radio station could not go ahead with the programme.

Mr Speaker, following the cancellation of the radio programme, the suspected PF cadres proceeded to Moba Hotel where Mr Hakainde Hichilema was. There, the suspected PF cadres became confrontational to the extent that one of them discharged a fire arm. As a result, police officers used tear gas to disperse the unruly mob and apprehended, and disarmed the cadre who had the fire arm. This further angered the mob which tried to rescue their colleague. The police arrested two people perceived to be the ring leaders and, thereafter, arrested nine others.

Mr Speaker, my ministry will not tolerate any acts of violence for whatever reason. This is evident from the action the police took throughout the incidence. The eleven people who were arrested have been charged with offences, ranging from threatening violence to obstructing the police from performing their duties. I will be honest with you that the police had to use maximum force in order to bring the situation to calm. The arrested were charged with assault, occasioning bodily harm and breach of peace, and were scheduled to appear in court on 20th and 21st July, 2015.

Further, Sir, the police impounded a Mitsubishi Rosa, Ford and Isuzu which are parked at the Kitwe Central Police Station and are still under investigation. The police recovered one brown pistol with seven rounds of ammunition. An axe, matchet and stones were also found in one of the vehicles that were impounded by the police. Investigations to bring more culprits to book have continued.

 Mr Speaker, the Government is saddened by the continued violence among political activists, particularly that fire arms are also used in public places. The Zambia Police Force is adequately equipped to contain all forms of violence in our society regardless of the status of the perpetrators because no one is above the law. All political parties and civil society organisations should, therefore, follow the provisions of the law and guidance given by State security agencies for their own safety. We shall uphold the law to the letter.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, my ministry shall continue to provide security to all the people living in Zambia without any discrimination. The actions carried out by the police throughout this incidence confirm and demonstrate our earnest desire to uphold the law without discrimination. It is, therefore, inappropriate for anyone to suggest that people should arm themselves in self defence.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, let me start by thanking the hon. Minister of Home Affairs for being mature and magnanimous ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Namugala: ... in admitting that the violence was perpetrated by suspected Patriotic Front (PF) members.

Mr Speaker, this level of intolerance, leading to violent activities must not be condoned by any political leader. I, therefore, commend the hon. Minister for not condoning it. Can the hon. Minister, in his capacity as a member of the PF, tell us what his party is going to do to remove this tag of violence so that as we approach 2016, there is no fear of more violence. Can the hon. Minister assure us that this will not happen in 2016.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I am here as hon. Minister of Home Affairs, and not as a member of the Central Committee for the PF. My role is to protect all the Zambians.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I would like to join Hon. Namugala in commending the hon. Minister for admitting that the perpetrators of violence are suspected members of the Patriotic Front (PF). From the hon. Minister’s statement, most of the actions taken by the police were reactive. I would like to find out what the police are going to do from now onwards to prevent such sad incidents as the one under discussion instead of reacting after an incident has taken place?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I have said that our role is to protect all the Zambians, and our job is to maintain law and order. The police will apprehend whoever will involve himself/herself in acts of violence

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, I would also like to commend the hon. Minister for the mature approach in handling national problems. The incident in Kitwe was not the first one where Patriotic Front (PF) cadres were involved in violence. Recently, there were similar incidents in Mulobezi where people were shot at, and it is suspected that PF members were responsible for that.

Ms Mulasikwanda: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, now that the hon. Minister is serious about fighting violence, what is he going to do about the incidents that happened recently?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, we have always been serious about handling issues of violence. I would like to take the hon. Member for Liuwa back to the incident he mentioned. Some members of the United Party for National Development (UPND) attacked the Secretary-General of the Patriotic Front (PF) in Mulobezi. However, in the incident that occurred in Kitwe, it was members of the PF that attacked those from the UPND. We shall ensure that people learn from this incidence. The Movement for Multi-Party Democracy (MMD) and UPND should also tell their members not to involve themselves in acts of violence.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that some of the vehicles carrying cadres who were involved in the violence were impounded. May the hon. Minister tell the House the registration of the vehicles and their owners?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I have indicated that investigations in this matter have continued.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, I would like to echo the sentiments of the previous speakers, and commend the hon. Minister for the mature approach to national issues. I trust that this will continue in the future. In his statement, the hon. Minister has indicated that one of the suspects discharged a firearm at one of the places where there was a confrontation. Have the police established whether or not this firearm was licensed? What will happen if the firearm was not licensed?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I said that investigations have continued. So, the person who was in possession of the pistol appeared in court yesterday.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, let me also join my hon. Colleagues in commending the hon. Minister of Home Affairs for the mature approach to such serious issues. What does the hon. Minister of Home Affairs intend to do in order to change the mindset of officers? Zambia has a multiparty dispensation. So, police officers need to change their mindset. Currently, we are constantly running away from either the police or Patriotic Front (PF) cadres. What steps is the hon. Minister taking to ensure that police officers realise that Zambia has a multiparty dispensation?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, all Zambians are aware that this is a democratic country, and the role of the police is to maintain law and order. We have the Public Order Act, which entails that if someone wants to hold a meeting, he/she must inform the police. That is all that is required of him/her.

I thank you, Sir.
 
Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I would also like to commend the hon. Minister for the stance that he has taken. Knowing him as much as I do, I am certain that he means what he has said.

Mr Speaker, I will ask something that has been asked already, but in a different way. Although police officers are supposed to maintain law and order, they fear Patriotic Front (PF) cadres. Can the hon. Minister ensure that police officers carry out their duties accordingly and without fear.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, the police command is aware that they are not supposed to get instructions from any politician in order to avoid interference. That is the position.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: He is a Minister of few words.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to join the chain of hon. Members who have commended the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. I am actually surprised by the approach that he has taken and, in my opinion, it is one of the best since he was born.

Laughter

Mr Mbewe: Sir, the use of guns has become very common in this country. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures the Government will take to make sure that the issuance of guns is regulated before 2016.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, we intend to get information on all the Zambians who own guns so that we know the exact number. That way, we shall be able to monitor the use of guns.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister, the culprits are suspected Patriotic Front (PF) and United Party for National Development (UPND) cadres in Kitwe and Mulobezi. However, some District Commissioners (DCs) have also been shooting at people. What are you going to do about DCs who shoot at people? The use of weapons has reached the climax because it started with machetes, and now people are using guns. What will the Government do about DCs, otherwise known as civil servants, who are shooting people?

Mr Speaker: I am reluctant to request the hon. Minister to respond to that question. Please, seek to clarify the statement.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Masumba: Commend him.

Mr Mbulakulima: Who is that one?

Mr Speaker, the commendations coming from this side of the House are genuine. Your statement was concise and precise, and we hope that others can emulate you.

Sir, the hon. Minister is aware that in the past, land grabbing and political violence were perpetuated by cadres who claimed to be members of the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD). They have now moved to the Patriotic Front (PF), and are tarnishing the image of the party. Tomorrow, they will move onto another political party. Can the hon. Minister tell us what practical measures he intends to take to disown these overzealous cadres.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, the former acting hon. Minister of Home Affairs, Hon. Shamenda and the Deputy Secretary-General of the Patriotic Front (PF), Ms Mumbi Phiri, all condemned the acts of violence.

Furthermore, looking at what the police have done, I can assure you that we shall put a stop to this. I have already said that everyone will learn from the action that this Government will take on this matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister alleged that in one incident, suspected cadres from the United Party for National Development (UPND) attacked the Secretary-General of the Patriotic Front (PF), Mr Chama, prompting him to use a firearm. However, to date, he has not been brought before the law in order to ascertain the circumstances under which he used the firearm.

Is the hon. Minister confirming that if one is attacked by suspected political party cadres, he/she can resort to using a firearm in defence? For instance, if PF cadres attacked me, would I be right to use a firearm just like Mr Chama did, and yet he has not been to book to date?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I expected my good friend to be serious about this matter.

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Sir, the Mulobezi incident is before the courts of law. So, I will not comment on it, as it would be prejudicial. I am not a lawyer, but I am sure that hon. Members understand this.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West): Mr Speaker, who am I not to follow the example of other hon. Members by giving commendations to the hon. Minister? I would like to commend you, hon. Minister. You are a breath of fresh air.

Mr Speaker, there is an adage that goes, “prevention is better than cure.” How effective is your police intelligence which, in my opinion, should have known what was about to happen in Kitwe? An effective police intelligence system would have prevented the occurrences in Kitwe. Could I know how effective your police intelligence system is.

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, our police command is very effective.

Firstly, the president of the United Party for National Development (UPND) went to the party secretariat where suspected Patriotic Front (PF) cadres followed. The police moved in to prevent any possible clashes. When the UPND president went to Moba Hotel, the police also moved there. That is why it is important to inform the police if one intends to hold a meeting so that he/she is protected.

Mr Speaker, the UPND members and their president were protected by the police.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister’s statement is a manifestation of the grounding he got from the Movement for Multiparty Democracy (MMD).

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: He is a friend of mine, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I am sure that has been said in jest. Continue, hon. Member.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that the radio programme that his excellency president Hichilema was supposed to address was stopped …

Interruptions

Mr Mushanga: His Excellency? Since when?

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Since we all swore to uphold the Constitution with regard to the rights of speech and expression, may I know who stopped the management of Radio Ichengelo from hosting president Hichilema on the programme?

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member for Mumbwa that I was once an hon. Member under the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) ticket, but I left in 2002 because the party was not doing the right things.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Mwila: Mr Speaker, I will not mention the person who stopped the radio programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Kalabo Central.

Mr Miyutu rose.

Mr Speaker: Question number 644.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Member: It is supposed to be a follow-up question.

__________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
RETIRED TEACHERS COUNTRYWIDE

644.    Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education:

(a)    how many retired teachers, countrywide, were not paid their terminal benefits as of April, 2015;

(b)    how much money, in total, was owed to the retired teachers; and

(c)    when the affected retirees would be paid.

The Deputy Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Mr Mushanga): Mr Speaker, 3,218 retired teachers countrywide had not been paid their terminal benefits as at April, 2015. They are owed more than K450 million. This includes leave travel benefits, terminal benefits, repatriation allowances, salary-related arrears and excess leave days’ pay.

Sir, the process of paying retired teachers is ongoing. The Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is cognisant of the colossal amount mentioned above. Therefore, the intention of the Government is to continue liquidating the said amount in a phased approach when funds are made available by the Treasury through the Ministry of Finance.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, over 3,000 retired teachers have not received their benefits that are in excess of K450 million. In view of the fact that many of them are still occupying Government houses as they await the payment of their terminal benefits, what immediate measures is the Government taking for teachers to vacate the houses and create room for new teachers?

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, the question posed by the hon. Member of Parliament for Kalabo Central is similar to some questions that have been posed before. The Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education is in the process of constructing houses at some schools, especially those that have been upgraded to secondary schools. That is the measure that the ministry has put in place.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, it is regrettable that the teachers are taken off the payroll after retirement. The hon. Deputy Minister has asaid that they will be paid as and when funds are made available.

Sir, these piecemeal payments turn retired teachers into destitution after they receive their last coin. There is a retired teacher one would feel sorry for because he looks as if he has never worked before. Can money not be found to pay the teachers so that they can, perhaps, start a business to enable them earn a living?

Mr Mushanga: Mr Speaker, the Government empathises with the retired teachers. So, like I have already stated, the ministry has put plans in place to ensure that they are paid their dues.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, as both the questioner and hon. Deputy Minister have indicated, retired teachers are living difficult lives. With no food and no form of livelihood, life for them is very difficult.

   Sir, since we have heard that the Government is planning to borrow some money, is it possible that the ministry can use part of it to pay the retired teachers to enable them to live normal lives?

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, the question is misdirected. Financial matters are dealt with by our colleagues in the Ministry of Finance. We are aware that some of the retired teachers are living difficult lives. As we have already indicated, we shall try our best to pay them their dues so that they can live a decent life after doing such a noble job.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the K450 million owed to retired teachers and other indebtedness is a lot of money. To echo my colleagues’ sentiments, many retired teachers are living miserable lives. In view of this, would the Government consider halting some of the massive infrastructure development projects so as to meet the needs of retirees in the teaching service, Judiciary and the Public Service in general? Could we not postpone some of the massive infrastructure projects that we are seeing in our colleagues’ constituencies so as to pay retirees who have served this country honourably?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the Budget is approved in this House. So, if we divert any funds that have been approved by this House, it will be deemed misappropriation of funds.

Mr Livune: Question!

Dr Kaingu: Sir, I would like the hon. Members to know that some of the teachers avoid getting their cheques. When the cheques are ready, ...

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: ... they run away because they would rather remain in the house than accept the cheque and vacate it.

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, that is the information I have.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to suggest that a teacher who has retired and is suffering because he/she has no source of income can run away from his/her retirement benefits? Is he in order to continue misleading the nation and the teachers?

Mr Shakafuswa laughed.

Mr Speaker: My ruling is simple. The hon. Minister was very clear when he said that that is the information he has.

May the hon. Member for Luena continue.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, about K450 million is required to pay the more than 3,000 retired teachers. I can imagine other ...

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, let me just provide guidance for a minute or two. As I have indicated, I have a long list of hon. Members who want to debate. I have noticed that there is a propensity to give long and winding preambles to questions. Just get to the point. The question is about the plight of teachers. So, we need to move with efficiency by getting to the point.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, now that the retirement age has been increased, may I find out from the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education whether he is considering re-engaging people who have not reached sixty years so that they can have some income until their terminal benefits are ready?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, that is a very good proposal, and we shall look at it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombora): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to consider engaging hon. Members of Parliament on the issue of cheques that pensioners are evading. Hon. Members can help the hon. Minister to deliver the cheques. Is the hon. Minister aware that removing teachers who have not been paid their benefits from the payroll is illegal?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the outstanding payments that we are talking about are leave travel and leave terminal benefits, repatriation fees, and salary-related arrears, excess leave days, and not the actual the pension. The teachers still receive their pension. So, I do not see what is illegal about this.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, it is interesting to hear that the information the hon.  minister has is that some teachers evade the cheques. Of the 3,218 teachers, how many would you say have done this?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, some teachers prefer to continue occupying institutional houses. They do not want to receive the cheques because, when they do that, they have to vacate the houses. That is how clear my answer was. It is not possible for me to give the names or number of people who have done this at the moment. However, we can come back to the House and provide the answer

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, do you not think that repatriation fees should be paid as quickly as possible so that the retired teachers vacate the institutional houses?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I think clearly.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Sir, these are arrears that we pay as we receive the money from the Treasury. There is nothing else we can do beyond this.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: I just want to assure the hon. Minister. As I understand this grammatical construction since it is the second time you have protested, I do not think it is suggesting that you are not thinking.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Please, have that assurance. It is just a form of grammatical construction.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon.  Minister has indicated that most of the retired teachers would like to cling on to the institutional houses because they have nowhere to go after they have retired. What is your ministry doing to empower the teachers while they are still serving so that come their last day of work, they have accommodation where they can go to as a result of having been empowered by their employers?

 

 

Dr Kaingu: Sir, I did not say most, but I said some of the teachers. And when it comes to  empowerment, they recieve a salary every month and I consider that as a form of empowerment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, when teachers retire, they expect their repatriation money. And when the Governemnt does not pay them immediately, the teachers are forced to stay in the houses as a way of putting pressure on the Government in order to be paid their monies. When the Government fails to pay them, is it not poor planning on their part yet they know that the retired teachers are supposed to move out of the houses to create space for the incoming teachers?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the figure that we are discussing is K450 million and it invloves five items. Unfortunately,     I am not able to dismantle the amount and assign an amount to each item. So, I do not know whether the money we are discussing is all for repatriation or leave terminal. However, what the hon. Member of Parliament for Kaoma Central said is true. It is important that as soon as a teacher retires, he/she is given money so that he/she vacates the house. However, the information that we have is that when some teachers are about to be given their repatriation money so that they can leave the houses, they ...

Mr Miyutu: They dissapear.

Dr Kaingu: ... dissappear. This is because they would rather stay in the houses since most of them do not have houses of their own and this is factual.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, when is the Government going to stop the continued violation of conditions of service to ensure that retired teachers are paid what is due to them upon retirement?

Dr Kaingu: Sir, as soon the K450 million has been paid off.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, is his reponse, the hon. Deputy Minister mentioned the amounts that the Government owes retired teachers. He also mentioned that the ministry is at the mercy of the Treasury to give them money to pay off the teachers. Further, the ministry is constantly engaging new teachers and retiring old ones. So, is there a plan to engage the Ministry of Finance so that some of the money approved in the Budget is paid to the teachers?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, we engage our colleagues in the Ministry of Finance. It is a pity that when we do that, it is not for everybody’s eyes. From time to time, when the Treasury allows it, an amount of money is released. That is why I stated that we shall clear the arreas in a phased manner.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

PROJECTS IN MPONGWE

645. Mr Namulambe asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when feasibility studies for the following projects in Mpongwe District would be completed:

(i)    tarring of Mpongwe/Machiya Road; and

(ii)    construction of bridges on the Mpongwe/Machiya Road across the Kafue and Luswishi rivers;

(b)    what the time frame of completing the projects was; and

(c)    what the total cost of the projects was.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the feasibility studies, detailed engineering designs for the Mpongwe/Machiya Road and bridge on the Mpongwe/Machiya Road across the Kafue River were completed in March this year.

Sir, the proposed time frame for completing the works is twenty four months.

Mr Speaker, the total cost will be determined once the procurement has been completed. The Road Development Agency (RDA) is in the proces of procuring the contractor for the works.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I am talking about the feasibility studies. So, the cost of this project is for the feasibility studies. How were the feasibility studies completed when the cost of the works is yet to be calculated?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, we are sorry for misunderstanding the hon. Member of Parliament. The studies cost the Government K7,885,718 and the consultants were Rankin Engineering and Aurecon.

I thank you, Sir.

INDUSTRIAL CLUSTERS IN WESTERN PROVINCE

646. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a)    what industrial clusters would be established in the Western Province, district by district; and

(b)    when the setting up of the clusters would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Sampa): Mr Speaker, the value chain-based industrial clusters being established in the Western Province are for:

Project                    District

Timber                    Sesheke
Mango                 Mongu
Cassava                 Kaoma
Beef                     Nalolo
Fish                     Mwandi
Groundnuts and Cassava         Nkeyema
Rice and Beef                 Shangombo
Timber and Rice             Sikongo
Rice and Mango             Limulunga
Cassava and Rice             Luampa
Rice and Fish                 Kalabo
Timber and Rice             Mulobezi
timber and cassava             Lukulu
Rice and Beef                 Mitete

Sir, as already stated, the establishment of value chain-based industrial clusters has already commenced.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, since the clusters exist at different levels in different districts, what is the progress of the projects which have commenced, particularly those in Kalabo?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, the future in Kalabo, and Western Province in particular looks bright. The disbursements to the province, district by district, for the value-chain projects are:

        Value-Chain Project        No. of Projects        Value of Projects (K)

2013     Timber     266     7,797,308.00
Cassava     236     4,192,712.33
2014    Fish    38         2,250,900.00
    Rice     31         1,052,788.00

Mr Speaker, the challenge has been the inability to provide collateral by most of the people who apply for funding. However, the ministry has a budget for this every year for the Western Province. So, the future is bright.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane (Liuwa): Mr Speaker, my interest is in the hon. Minister’s response in relation to the rice and timber value-chain projects in Kalabo. Is the hon. Minister aware that rice production in Kalabo has gone down drastically because the buffalos from Liuwa National Park have been eating the rice crop. The animals like rice better than grass.

 Laughter

 Dr Musokotwane: So, when you say that there is a good future for value-chain projects, where is the future when the buffaloes are eating the rice?

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, that is an unfortunate situation. However, we shall engage our colleagues in the Ministry of Tourism and Art to see if something can be done about the wildlife that is misbehaving in the rice fields. There is a need to put up a ‘Chinese wall’ to separate the rice fields and Liuwa National Park.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, last week, the hon. Minister indicated, on the Floor of this House, that the term “clusters” is no longer part of the vocabulary in the ministry. I would like to find out whether the ministry still believes in the concept of cluster which was introduced by the then Minister of Commerce, Trade, and Industry, Hon. Bob Sichinga. Does the ministry still believe in that concept or the ministry has introduced another one? If so, could he tell us what it is since the ministry no longer believes in the concept of clusters?

 Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, the beauty about having been in the House for a long time is that one anticipates certain follow-up questions. So, I conducted some research and I have the information to clarify everything once and for all.

Sir, in his ministerial statement that was given early this year, the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry said that the ministry would now focus more on value chain industrial clusters, which is a physical place where enterprises dealing in similar products or lines of business are clustered to conduct their businesses.

Mr Speaker, there are three main types of industrial clusters. The first one is called the co- venture type. It is more or less like what is happening in Mazabuka where there are companies and activities that depend on Zambia Sugar Plc. It is, therefore, more private sector-driven.

Sir, the second type of industrial clusters will interest hon. Members more. This is called enclave. This may be a place like Buseko Market here in Lusaka or Nokadoli Market in Kitwe, Copperbelt Province, where various micro and small entrepreneurs operate from, and are engaged in various but related value-addition activities. Enterprises in such clusters tend to use common facilities in terms of infrastructure and equipment.

Mr Speaker, the final one, which is the point of emphasis, is the industrial value chain cluster. An example of this is a value chain cluster for groundnuts where a number of activities are conducted, ranging from, for example, growing groundnuts, harvesting and removing husks, to processing them into different products such as peanut butter, oil and groundnuts meal. The focus in this type of cluster is on adding value to a primary product or commodity. In doing so, jobs are created along the value chain, that is, from production to marketing and distribution. In the immediate term, the Government is working towards going to an area and using the Citizen Economic Empowerment Commission (CECC) to provide funds for the production and distribution of goods just like the pineapple project that was talked about the other week.

 Mr Speaker, next year or so, the emphasis will be on putting up slabs like those at Buseko Market. I know that it is costly to put up a slab. Therefore, priority, at the moment, is on the resource envelope that can only allow us to work on the value chain industrial clusters.

 I think you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just talked about the timber value chain. I would like to find out what products are derived from the timber that is produced in the value chains, considering that all that we get and see is raw timber being offloaded onto the market. What products are derived from timber value chains?

 Mr Speaker: Order!

Before the hon. Minister’s response, I have an announcement to make.

________

ANNOUNCEMENT

DELEGATION FROM THE NAMIBIAN PARLIAMENT

Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House of the presence in the Speaker’s Gallery of the delegation from the Parliament of Namibia, comprising the following hon. Members:

    Hon. Marina Kandumbu, Mp

    Hon. Apius Auchab, MP

    Hon. Liina Ndilipo Namupala, MP

    Hon. Bernadette Jagger, MP

    Mr Protasius Ndaningaweni Ngileendele, Secretary to the delegation

Laughter

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Also in the delegation, is Mr Adam Masurovsky, a member of staff from the International Conservation Caucus Foundation (ICCF) of the United States of America (USA). The purpose of the visit to Zambia was to attend a regional workshop on conservation and witness the launch of the Zambian Parliamentary Conservation Caucus (ZPCC) Strategic Plan for 2015 to 2020.

On behalf of the National Assembly of Zambia, I would like to receive our distinguished guests and warmly welcome them in our midst.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: May the hon. Deputy Minister continue, please.

__________

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, Mulobezi, Lukulu and Sesheke are the districts that have timber which needs value addition. We need to empower the locals with funds to enable them buy machinery which they will use to process the timber. This Government is not comfortable with timber being exported in its raw form. So, we are doing everything possible to make sure that it is processed. We are, therefore, looking forward to working with companies like Furniture Corporation of Zambia (Furncoz) and Uniturtle. We are also looking at supporting more companies to process the timber. That way, we shall not import finished timber products like desks and chairs. Instead, we shall be the ones exporting them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has talked about financing the local people and the need for collateral when borrowing funds. Can the Government not find a way of harmonising this, especially for people in places like Mitete, Nalolo and Mulobezi.

Mr Sampa: Mr Speaker, collateral is a big challenge not only for Mitete, but all over Zambia. The Citizens Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) lends a maximum of K50,000 without security but, when people want to borrow more than K50,000, they find it very difficult to access the funds because this requires security. I know that there are Bills which are aimed at ensuring that citizens have access to larger amounts even when they have no collateral. It would be good for applicants who have traditional land to obtain title deeds so that they can use them as security.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

TOWNSHIP ROADS IN MBALA

647. Mr Simfukwe (Mbala) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    what the total number of kilometres of township roads earmarked to be upgraded in Mbala District was;

(b)    when the works were expected to commence; and

(c)    what the estimated cost of the works was.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Ching’imbu): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing planned to upgrade 20 km of township roads in Mbala. The works are planned to be procured in 2016 at an estimated cost of K120 million. However, the actual cost will only be known after the consultant has made the designs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, the answer is very clear. However, what is your reaction to the fact that the Provincial Minister for the Northern Province announced at the Umutomboko Ceremony that rehabilitation works on township roads will commence in the next two months or, at least, before December? He said this in the presence of all the chiefs and local leaders.

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, we shall liaise with the hon. Provincial Minister and, if need be, clarify the position.

I thank you, Sir.

ZESCO OFFICES IN CHADIZA

648. Mr Mbewe (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development:

(a)    when the construction of the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) offices in Chadiza would be completed;

(b)    why the construction works had stalled;

(c)    what the total cost of the project was; and

(d)    what the estimated cost of the works was.

The Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Zulu): Mr Speaker, the construction of ZESCO offices is expected to be completed by 31st October, 2015.

Sir, the construction works stalled due to the challenges of land acquisition. Initially, the council gave ZESCO a piece of land but later changed and gave it another piece of land.

Mr Speaker, the project cost is K2,349,029.23 and the contractor is Mwasika Contractors Limited.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, these are the kinds of responses that make the people of Chadiza happy. I have no follow-up question.

Laughter

CHIKOMENI/MWANYA ROAD IN LUNDAZI

649. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the rehabilitation of Chikomeni/Mwanya Road in Lundazi District would commence; and

(b)    when the works on the stretch from Njoko to Kazembe Chiefdom on Bulete/Kazembe Road, which had remained incomplete for four years, would be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of Chikomeni/Mwanya Road will be considered in the 2016 Road Sector Annual Work Plan (RSAWP).

Sir, the rehabilitation of the stretch from Njoko to Kazembe Chiefdom on the Bulete/Kazembe Road will be considered in the 2016 RSAWP.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, this question has been asked for the past three years and the answer has been that it will be included in the annual work plan for the following year. What assurance are you giving us that the works will be done next year?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, we can confirm that the projects were submitted by the council to the provincial administration that has forwarded the proposal to the Road Development Agency (RDA) Head Office. So, they are included in the Draft 2016 Annual Work Plan.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to declare interest and say that this is my second chiefdom after that for Senior Chief Milambo.

Hon. MMD Member: Which one?

Mr Mbulakulima: Chief Mwanya.

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, last week, we were told that people could not even get to the local courts because the roads were impassable. As hon. Members are aware, Chief Mwanya is friendly and sends greetings to all of us. Is it not possible to use this year’s allocation in the Yellow Book for the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) to rehabilitate the road leading to Chief Mwanya’s area because it is in a very bad state? Chief Mwanya is actually my friend. The road to his chiefdom is very important and, therefore, should be worked on before the onset of the rains.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, we are fully aware of the state of this road. However, we are not aware of the connections between the chief and the hon. Member of Parliament for Chembe. It is precisely because of the importance of this road that it is featured in the Draft Annual Work Plan for next year.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, my concern is on the answer to part (a) of the Question. The hon. Member of Parliament for Lumezi asked when the rehabilitation of the said road would commence, but the response given is that it will be included in the 2016 Annual Work Plan. When exactly are the works going to commence because being included in the annual work plan is not the same as the works commencing?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the hon. Member’s knowledge of words. However, we are talking about the annual work plan for next year which, I said on the Floor of this House, is being drafted. It has to be subjected to prioritisation when the funds for the road sector next year are known. That is when the Road Development Agency (RDA) will be in a better position to attach dates to the works to be undertaken.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

MITETE DISTRICT HEALTH OFFICE

650. Mr Mutelo asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health when the Mitete District health office would be provided with transport to enhance its operations.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mr Chisala): Mr Speaker, the provincial medical office gave the Mitete District health office a Toyota land cruiser on 8th July, 2015, while the Department of Mother and Child Health procured and distributed three motorbikes for Mitete District in January, 2015, to help with outreach services.

I thank you, Sir.

KANYALA BORDER POST IN NAKONDE

651. Mr Sichula (Nakonde) asked the Minister of Finance when the Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) would send officers to Kanyala Border Post in Nakonde.

The Minister of Finance (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the hon. Member of Parliament that two officers have already been deployed at Kanyala Border Post in Nakonde.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sichula: Mr Speaker, when were the officers deployed at the border post?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, I have just been informed that the officers have been deployed. I can give the exact date to the hon. Member of Parliament later. However, if the hon. Member has evidence that the answer is not correct, I would be interested to get the facts from him. It is important that we do not give to this House information which is incorrect.

I thank you, Sir.

MITETE DISTRICT ELECTRIFICATION
652. Mr Mutelo asked the Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development when Mitete District would be electrified.

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, the electrification of Mitete District will only be determined after the client, which is Mitete District Council, makes the required payment to the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO). Once the payment is made, power can be connected within two months.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, what is the required amount to be paid by the council to ZESCO? In other words, how much is involved?

Mr Zulu: Mr Speaker, electricity supply to Mitete has already been scoped and will require construction of 55 km of the 33 kV overhead line and installation of a 100 KVA 11/0.4 kV transformer. The 33 kV line will initially be energised at 11 kV and supplied from Lukulu, which is also awaiting connection to the national electricity grid at 132 kV. The cost of electrifying Mitete District is K3.2 million.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, is it standard practice for the council to pay the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) for the electrification of a district that has been created by the Government of the Republic of Zambia?

The Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development (Mr Yaluma): Mr Speaker, when a new district is created, there is a budget that covers all the services to be provided in the district. So, the amount for the supply of electricity to the new district will come from that budget. The supply of electricity we are talking about is not the same as the electrification of rural areas. This is the supply of electricity to a district centre. The budget for the creation of a new district includes costs for sanitation and supply of power, and water.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, in view of the woes that the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) is experiencing due to the drought and low water levels in the Kariba Dam and Kafue River due to climate change, may I get comfort from the hon. Minister that when this money is paid, electricity will be supplied to Mitete District.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, yes, Mitete District will be supplied with electricity. However, it will also go through the same pattern of load shedding whenever the need arises.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, Chikankata, like Mitete, is a newly-created district. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) interfaces with such kinds of developments because I am aware that Chikankata District, which was created in a similar fashion as Mitete, is being powered by the REA.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, I would like to distinguish between rural electrification and powering an existing rural council or central business district (CBD) in a rural area. In the case of rural electrification, we go into rural areas to power the schools, clinics and police stations. However, for Chikankata, I would imagine it was powered by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) earlier on.

Mr Nkombo: No!

Mr Yaluma: Let me complete the response.

Mr Speaker: Continue, hon. Minister.

Mr Yaluma: Chikankata could have been powered by ZESCO before, whereas rural electrification is done in the extreme rural areas through the Rural Electrification Master Plan where the need was identified and places electrified. Since Mitete is a new district, maybe, there was no power line to the area. They have already applied for power because they know it is their responsibility to do so.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, would the ministry consider connecting Mitete through Kalabo since Kalabo is already powered by the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO).

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, that will require thorough studies. We are trying to do away with diesel power generation in the North-Western Province. We would also like to connect Lukulu to the national electricity. So, Mitete will get better electricity supply from the national electricity grid. That is the route we have taken.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to allege that Chikankata has been supplied with electricity when it is a totally new district like Mitete? I am aware that the hon. Minister knows the Southern Province well. On the left of Nega Nega Turnoff, there are new buildings that have not yet been electrified. However, the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) has erected some poles with a view to connecting electricity. Is the hon. Minister in order to treat Mitete differently?

Hon. Nkombo: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister will clarify that position.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, in his response, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that Mitete will be connected to Lukulu, which is also waiting to be connected to the national electricity grid at Mumbeji. Considering that this process will take about two years, can the hon. Minister indicate when Mitete will be electrified?

Mr Speaker: You may clarify the other point too.

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to clarify the issue of Chikankata.

I did not say that Chikankata was connected to the national electricity grid. However, I said that maybe the situation is like because it has been connected to the national electricity grid. I did firmly confirm the position as to where Chikankata was connected. I, therefore, withdraw my statement if that is the impression I gave.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, with Mitete, the construction of grid lines in the North-Western Province, crossing over to Lukulu has been delayed a little due to some issues that arose in regard to the tax applications on the project. That has been corrected, the project is progressing well and has been extended by two to three months from the initial twenty-four months. So, the time frame of the project is about twenty-seven months from April, 2014. We are on track to get Mitete connected. We want to connect Mitete to a reliable supply of electricity, which is the national electricity grid, and not the diesel generation across the Zambezi River.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, considering that Mitete is a poor district and the Rural Electrification Authority (REA) could assist with the electrification in some way, is it able to take the route which the hon. Deputy Minister was trying to elaborate in his response, but which is deemed to be expensive?

Mr Yaluma: Mr Speaker, Mitete will meet the requirements of REA just like some areas that are far from it but have constructed central business districts (CBD). We need to speed up the provision of power to the remote areas of Mitete by reviewing the Rural Electrification Master Plan and looking at far distant places from Mitete where there are schools.

I thank you, Sir.

LOCAL GOVERNMENT SERVICE COMMISSION

653. Mr Namulambe asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    why the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) does not discipline non performing officers but, instead, transfer them from one council to another;

(b)    who was responsible for disciplining erring council officers; and

(c)    how disciplinary measures were implemented.

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, the responsibility to discipline erring officers lies solely with the principal officer of the council and his/her executive in accordance with the provisions of Statutory Instrument No.115 of 1996. The recommendations made by the management of the local authority should be presented to a full council before the final recommendations are presented to the LGSC. Then, the LGSC will make a decision using powers drawn from Amendment Act No.6 of 2010 and institutes the most appropriate action in relation to the offence.

Sir, the House may also wish to note that transfers are made in the event of:

(i)    a promotion;
(ii)    a specific skill in a particular council;
(iii)    orientation for broader knowledge in local government services;
(iv)    administrative convenience; and
(v)    tension as a result of the presence of an erring officer.

Mr Speaker, service regulations demand that the supervising officer at council level initiates disciplinary proceedings against erring officers by first charging them appropriately as provided for in the terms and conditions of service for local government officers and SI No.115 of 1996. In turn, the erring officers are given reasonable time to exculpate themselves against the allegations. Upon consideration of the matter, the Finance, Human Resource Purposes Committee at council level, may accept or dismiss the exculpatory statement and forward the matter to the full council for recommendation to the LGSC for further consideration and determination. Therefore, the commission makes decisions based on the available facts on the matter provided by the council. If the case warrants a dismissal or discharge, the final decision is made by the commission. However, if the case does not warrant dismissal or discharge, the commission writes back to the council to give appropriate advice.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, would it be wrong for Mpongwe District Council to evict an officer, who was transferred there by the commission before the conclusion of a disciplinary matter in the council where he came from, from a council house?

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, the question on the Floor is not about eviction. However, if there are special cases, the hon. Member is free to come to our office and we shall take appropriate action.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, how long should does the commission take to respond to matters concerning the suspension of officers after the full council has deliberated on an issue and recommended their reinstatement?

Sir, in Luwingu, some officers were suspended and the council recommended their reinstatement to the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) but, to date, there has been no response. Is there a time frame within which the commission should be expected to respond?

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament should be aware that there are many erring officers in the country against one commission. I should also mention that it depends on how quickly a particular council writes to the commission. The commission will move in immediately, bearing in mind the many other pending cases.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Continue, hon. Member for Katombora.

Laughter

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, going by the hon. Deputy Minister’s admittance that the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) is overwhelmed with work, is it not prudent for the ministry to consider giving back to the councillors the power to deal with all matters relating to council workers, especially the power to hire and discipline, in order to create efficiency?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, we acknowledge that in the recent past, things have not worked to the satisfaction of the appointing authority, in this case, His Excellency the President. We are hoping that with the appointment of the …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that there are many challenges in the local governance structure of our country. This is precisely why the newly-appointed Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) has been given the mandate to sanity to this sector. Currently, the LGSC is auditing the human resource in the councils and is geared to retain many senior officers and junior officers who are the institutional memory carriers. Transferring them at random does not help the councils, but tends to destabilise them.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the Local Government Service Commission (LGSC) has caused the collapse of the Local Government system in Zambia. Taking into account your admittance to this House, do you not think that it is prudent to revise the regulations that govern the LGSC to ensure that there is efficiency and transparency in the way it administers the Local Government system?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I cannot agree more with the hon. Member of Parliament. In fact, this is the view of those of us in the Ministry of Local Government and Housing share. We hope that we can move in this direction so that we have a commission that is committed to bringing stability to our local authorities.

I thank you, Sir.

PARASTATAL COMPANIES’ BOARDS OF DIRECTORS

654.    Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Finance:

(a)    whether the Government had any plans to revise the process of constituting boards of directors for parastatal companies, especially those that were loss-making; and

(b)    how many parastatal companies declared dividends in the 2012 and 2013 financial years.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the Government has already revised the process of appointing directors on boards of all parastatal companies by appointing professionals and experts from various sectors of the country. For instance, boards are no longer chaired by Permanent Secretaries (PSs), but the directors themselves elect chairpersons from among themselves. The Government writes to professional bodies such as the Law Association of Zambia (LAZ) and the Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants (ZICA), and universities such as the Copperbelt University (CBU) and the University of Zambia (UNZA), to mention but a few, requesting them to nominate professionals from among their members and submit the nominations to the respective hon. Ministers who, in turn, make the appointments to the boards of directors of parastatal companies.

Mr Speaker, in the 2012 Financial Year, the six parastatal companies that declared dividends to their respective shareholders are:

(a)    Afrox Zambia Limited;

(b)    African  Reinsurance Corporation;

(c)    Mofed London;

(d)    Nanga Farms Private Limited Company;

(e)    Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO); and

(f)     Mulungushi Village Complex Limited.

Mr Speaker, during the 2013 Financial Year, seven parastatal companies declared dividends to their respective shareholders. These are:

(a)    Afrox Zambia Limited;

(b)    Kagem Mining Limited Company;

(c)    African Reinsurance corporation;

(d)    Mofed London;

(e)    Nanga Farms Private Limited Company;

(f)    Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO); and

(g)    Mulungushi Village Complex Limited.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, while I appreciate the response by the hon. Minister of Finance, I have noticed that the number of parastatal companies he has given is very small compared to the huge number of parastatal companies in the country. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government is not worried about this phenomenon of appointing incompetent, corrupt and predatory Patriotic Front (PF) cadres to sit on boards of parastatal companies? How are you going to get rid of this phenomenon that has developed under the PF Government?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, the word, “cadre” carries some derogatory connotation. However, not all cadres are corrupt. Not all people who are religious supporters of party causes are corrupt. In fact, some of them have qualifications and levels of probity higher than some of the elite individuals. Some of the most corrupt people are not cadres, but from the elite community.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that one of the changes that the Government has instituted is to turn chairpersons of boards into executive chairpersons of boards, enjoying full benefits.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, that is not the Government’s policy. In fact, there was only one incident where the Chief Executive Officer of the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Investment Holding (ZCCM-IH), was also the executive chairperson because of his attributes. He was an immensely qualified citizen who had served in Zambia and internationally with remarkable distinction. Since the demise of that compatriot, the current Chief Executive Officer of the ZCCM-IH is not the chairperson of the board. Therefore, that is not the practice. All the chairpersons of Government-owned enterprises are not executive chairpersons.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, from the list of companies that declared dividends to the Government that the hon. Minister has given us, how many are run by expatriates? If there are any, does that have a bearing on the profitability of the companies and the dividends declared?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, there is no relationship between the solvency of the companies in which the State has interest and those in which the State does not have interest. All the companies are locally owned, except the Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO) and Afrox Zambia Limited where other foreign interests have equity in the companies. Therefore, there is no intrinsic relationship between efficiency, the declaration of dividends and ownership of the companies, whether locally owned or partly owned by foreign interests.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s response in regard to which parastatal companies make losses and which ones make profits, he mentioned that the management of the Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO), Afrox Zambia Limited, Nanga Farms Private Limited Company, Mofed London and Indo Zambia Bank Limited are not chosen by the Zambian Government. Would the hon. Minister not agree with me that the operations of the parastatal companies where the management is chosen independently of the Government seem to be better than those whose chief executive officers are chosen by the Government?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, it is not necessarily so. I notice that the former hon. Minister of Finance has mentioned some companies like Indo Zambia Bank Limited that I did not mention in my response.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament are supposed to make the Government accountable. When you have evidence of lack of adequate performance or professionalism, you should just say so without going round, speaking in parables.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kazabu: Mr Speaker, in the interest of transparency, may I find out from the hon. Minister of Finance when the Government will do away with the practice of appointing chief executive officers of parastatal companies as opposed to recruiting them through public advertisements which, I believe, will attract technically-competent persons.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, in most cases, chief executive officers of State-owned companies are appointed through the process of public advertisements. A typical case is that of the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines – Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) which has a lot of muscle. That company’s Chief Executive Officer was appointed through a competitive process, as there were six applicants for this slot. A committee composed of very eminent people went through an intense selective process. At the end of the day, one of them got the highest marks, and was duly appointed as Chief Executive Officer.

Sir, most chief executive officers of State-owned companies are appointed through the competitive process of advertisements where they are shortlisted as candidates. There are few cases where the Government deems it fit to appoint a chief executive officer because it is the shareholder in a particular State-owned outfit.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned six parastatal companies that have declared dividends to the Government. Can he tell the House what percentage of all the parastatal firms makes up the six companies, and what percentage is non-performing or loss making?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, there are as many as forty State-owned enterprises. Of these, six declared dividends in the 2012 Financial Year and seven in the 2013 Financial Year. This is a small figure, meaning that the other parastatal companies are not performing to the expectation of the taxpayers who put money in these entities. We are, therefore, at liberty to show concern that the so many State-owned enterprises are not declaring dividends.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that the process of constituting boards of parastatal companies, especially those that are loss-making, has been revised. Will the Government consider dissolving the boards should it be found that the companies have continued to make losses?

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, it would be logical to wind down the companies that are not doing well because the alternative would be to overburden the already over-extended taxpayers to find money to run the parastatal organisations. Therefore, I think that it is quite a reasonable proposition that companies that are not doing well, and may not do well in the foreseeable future be liquidated.  

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if there is a consideration to appoint former Vice-Presidents to some of the boards, bearing in mind that they are irrefutably a huge repository of knowledge.

Mr Chikwanda: Mr Speaker, where Vice-Presidents are knowledgeable, there is nothing that precludes their appointment to boards. However, earlier on, someone poured scorn on cadres. So, …

Laughter

Mr Chikwanda: … there is an aura of contradiction.

Maybe, the hon. Member for Chipata Central is in agreement with me when I said that not everybody who is dubbed a cadre is incompetent. Some so-called cadres are quite suitably and appropriately qualified to serve on boards of State-owned companies. In any case, it is a good practice to have boards with members from a cross-section of society without necessarily compromising or aborting efficiency.

I thank you, Sir.

CATTLE RUSTLING IN KALABO

655. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    how many cases of cattle rustling were reported in Kalabo District from January, 2011 to March, 2015;

(b)    how many farmers were affected by the cattle rustling at (a);

(c)    what the total number of cattle stolen during the period at (a) was; and

(d)    what measures had been taken to curb cattle rustling in the area.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Col. Kaunda): Mr Speaker, eight-four cases of cattle rustling were reported in Kalabo District from January, 2011 to March, 2015, involving cattle valued at K298,980.  

Sir, eighty-four farmers were affected by cattle rustling in the area between January, 2011 and March, 2015. During this period, a total of ninety cattle were stolen. The Zambia Police Force has undertaken the following measures to curb cattle rustling:

(i)    sensitisation programmes aimed at crime prevention; and

(ii)    engagement of neighbourhood-watch associations to help conduct patrols.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, cattle rustlers get to Angola through the porous border because it provides a good market for cattle, as the high prices are high there.

Hon. Minister, what is the Government doing about the cordon line which was used in the United National Independence Party (UNIP) era to control cattle rustling so as to help the farmers who are losing a lot of revenue through this vice?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, as the hon. Member has said, our borders are very porous. However, it is practically impossible to seal off every kilometre of the border Zambia shares with Angola. We need the participation of the owners of the cattle in our sensitisation programme. I will enquire from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock about when his ministry can put up the cordon line.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milambo (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is aware that the risk of exposure to cattle theft is insurable? If so, what has been done to help the people of Kalabo insure their animals?

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament from that part of the country are cattle raiders ...

Laughter

Col. Kaunda: I beg your pardon, Sir. I meant that they rear cattle. So, I expect that they can help us to sensitise the people on the importance of insuring not only cattle, but also crops that are grown in the area.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has pointed out that there are two interventions to address cattle rustling. These are sensitisation and the neighbourhood watch programmes. Some cattle rustlers are armed with dangerous weapons. Is the ministry considering arming the neighbourhood watch groups so that they can face the cattle rustlers squarely?

Col. Pande: Mr Speaker, that would be opening Pandora’s box. As you know, once someone is armed, he/she will not choose who to fire at. Nowadays, there are cases of people accusing old people of witchcraft. So, those of us with white hair are at risk of being murdered.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, in the past, there was a system of cattle being centrally sold in liaison with the police and Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock. A date was set when farmers could sell their cattle. This helped curb cattle rustling in cattle-rearing areas. Is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs considering liaising with the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock in order to bring back this system?

Col. Kaunda: Sir, that is a very good suggestion. We shall liaise with the Ministry of Agriculture and Livestock to introduce this system. On the days that will be set to sell cattle, we, as the police, shall come in to provide security.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, is the ministry considering setting up a special squad within the Police Force to look at cattle rustling not only in Kalabo, but also other areas where the vice is rife?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila): Mr Speaker, we have received a lot of complaints relating top cattle rustling between Mongu and Kalabo. So, we intend to visit the area when the House goes on recess and see if we can put up a police post there.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu indicated assent.

CDF ADMINISTRATIVE COSTS

656.    Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    what criterion was used to determine administrative costs for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF);

(b)    when the amount was last increased; and

(c)    when the amount would be increased.

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, there is no criterion to determine the administrative costs for the CDF. However, it was initially set at 10 per cent of the total CDF for each year under Section 17 of the CDF Guidelines.

Sir, in 2008, the ministry issued a circular to limit the CDF administrative costs to K20,000. The Ministry of Local Government and Housing is currently reviewing the CDF Guidelines for 2006 in which the administrative costs are among the other issues to be determined.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo: Mr Speaker, when will the 2015 Constituency Development Fund (CDF) be released?

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, that is a new question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: In fact, I did not permit the hon. Minister to respond to it.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, why have you failed to persuade my uncle, the hon. Minister of Finance, to release the 2015 Constituency Development Fund (CDF)? We need that money to grade roads, especially now that the marketing season has started.

Mr Speaker: I will not allow the hon. Minister to respond to that question. Maybe, we have run out of questions?

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, as a matter of policy governing the administration of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), are members of the CDF Committee who, in most cases, walk long distances to attend meetings, entitled to part of the administrative costs because, sometimes, they have to stay where the meetings are taking place for several days? Are they catered for in the administrative costs of the CDF?

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, yes, they are. Last week, I belaboured to explain what we, as a ministry are doing in regard the administration of the CDF. We are not going to leave any stone unturned in looking at the administrative costs in depth. However, hon. Members should be a little patient. These are some of the issues we shall be looking at in our consultations with them.

I thank you, Sir.

METEOROLOGICAL OFFICE IN KABOMPO

657.    Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the rehabilitation of the meteorological office in Kabompo District would commence;

(b)    whether the Government had any plans to produce equipment and furniture for the office; and

(c)     when the construction of staff houses would commence.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, there was no successful bidder for the bids that closed on 19th June, 2015. So, the tender has been re-advertised. The commencement of the rehabilitation works will depend on the successful selection of a bidder. The Government has got plans to procure equipment and furniture for the office. There are no plans yet for the construction of staff houses in Kabompo.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, since there are no plans to purchase furniture for the institution, when, exactly, will you match your words with action?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the equipment and furniture will be purchased after the rehabilitation of the offices.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, taking into account what is obtaining at the National Meteorological Office in Lusaka pertaining to the availability of equipment, are there considerations to replace the obsolete equipment being used to predict weather patterns in this country?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, at the risk of opening Pandora’s box, let me confess that we did not look at the equipment at national level or the head office.

Mr Speaker: Order!

I did not get the last part of your response.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, in coming up with the response to this Question, we did not consider that aspect.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, apart from Kabompo District, is the Government also planning to supply furniture to offices in the newly-constructed districts?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, where the department is rehabilitating and/or constructing offices, funding is also provided for accompanying furniture and equipment.

I thank you, Sir.

SOLAR REFRIGERATORS FOR LIUWA HEALTH POSTS

658. Dr Musokotwane asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health when solar refrigerators would be procured for the following health posts in Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency in order to facilitate storage of temperature-sensitive drugs:

(i)    Libonda;
(ii)    Kuuli;
(iii)    Sishekanu;
(iv)    Siluwe;
(v)    Luola; and
(vi)    Mutaa.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, currently, Libonda and Kuuli health centres have functioning solar vaccine fridges. The Government has also procured and delivered solar vaccine fridges to Kalabo District for Sishekanu, Siluwe, Luola and Mutaa health centres which are awaiting installation scheduled for July, 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that response. I have no follow-up question, but I just want to say that we will be waiting for the fridges to be installed.

Mr Speaker: Order!

This is time for Questions, hon. Member. You can engage the hon. Minister outside this platform.

__________

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE LOCAL AUTHORITIES SUPERANNUATION (Amendment) BILL, 2015

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (Amendment) Bill, 2015 be read a second time.

Sir, the object of the) Bill is to amend the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund Act so as to revise the retirement age.

Mr Speaker, I was geared to applaud recommendation No. 9 on page 4 of your Committee’s report before the corrigendum was circulated, which reads:

“Your Committee supports the adjustment of the retirement age and is of the view that this will harmonise the retirement age among pension schemes.”

However, Mr Speaker, I am aware that your Committee has circulated a corrigendum which corrects the report by the deletion of the above recommendation and recommending for the withdrawal of the Bill. The Committee argues that the Bill be brought back to Parliament after a decision is made on either:

(a)    closing the funds as a pension scheme and deal with the financial implication that would arise from this decision; or

(b)    re-open membership to the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) and deal with issues of financial sustainability.

Mr Speaker, it is true that the provisions of the Bill do not address the current problems of LASF because the objective of the Bill is to harmonise the retirement age of both civil servants and other employees in quasi-Government and private institutions.

Sir, the difficulties that LASF is undergoing are currently being tackled by the Cabinet Office through the Pension Scheme Reforms for all pension schemes. Therefore, the Bill cannot be withdrawn based on the fact that it does not address the difficulties of LASF, as they are being addressed outside this Bill.

Mr Speaker, the Bill that is being considered by this House is progressive because it will harmonise the retirement age for all citizens and also provide an opportunity to pension authorities to make payment plans for their clients’ retirement benefits.

Sir, in my view, and with due respect to the Committee, the corrigendum was not necessary. Your Committee ought to have stuck to the original recommendation No. 9, on page 4 of the report because that is what is in tandem with the object of the Bill, that is, “To amend the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund Act so as to revise the retirement age.”

Mr Speaker, let me put it on record that your Committee originally did a good job because it supported the adjustment of the retirement age, and is of the view that this will harmonise the retirement age among pension schemes.

Sir, the Government is quickening the implementation of the Pension Reforms of 2012 which include the introduction of a three-tier national pension system, with the first and second tiers being mandatory. This will make contributions to LASF mandatory and, therefore, improve its financial standing.

So, Mr Speaker, I urge the House to support the proposed amendment Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, your Committee considered various submissions on the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (Amendment) Bill, 2015 referred to it by this House on Friday, 19th June, 2015.

Sir, the object of the Bill is to amend the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund Act in order to revise the retirement age from 55 to 60 for members of the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF).

Mr Speaker, while your Committee appreciates the object of the Bill, it sadly note that the unique problems of LASF would need much more than just harmonisation of the retirement age to be sought. This view was also echoed by most, if not all the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee.

Mr Speaker, your Committee learnt that the revision will mean that retirees will have to wait a little longer to receive their benefits and may mean deferring payments to a later period by which time, the amounts shall be colossal. The stakeholders also argued that adjusting the retirement age of members of LASF is only a temporary solution in that the postponement of the pension payments by five years will not resolve the significant actuarial deficit of the fund.

Sir, another concern raised by the stakeholders who appeared before your Committee was that there was a need to expedite the implementation of the comprehensive Pension Reforms that the Government embarked upon in 2012. So, bringing this Bill at this moment is tantamount to double handling because we would rather it waits. The stakeholders were of the view that a three-tier national pension system should be introduced without further delay. They were also of the view that the first and second tiers should be mandatory, which would make contributions to LASF mandatory and, therefore, improve its financial stability and sustainability.

Mr Speaker, allow me to shed more light on a three-tier pension security system. A three-tier pension security system is a social security system which is segmented at three levels, namely National Basic Scheme, Occupational Scheme and Voluntary Private Scheme. In this respect, the National Basic Scheme is the first tier, the Occupational Scheme is the second tier and the Voluntary Private Scheme is the third tier.

Sir, allow me to inform the House that LASF has, over the years, become insolvent because it has not been admitting new members since 1st February, 2000. Consequently, there has been a drastic decline in its membership from 17,000 in 2002, to 4,550 in 2012. Your Committee is of the view that in order to liquidate the huge actuarial deficit on the fund, there is a need to recapitalise it in order to save it from imminent collapse which cannot even be solved by merely adjusting the retirement age.

Your Committee, therefore, strongly recommends that the challenges of the pension scheme be addressed in a holistic manner in order to foster sound and progressive long-term solutions to the sector, especially LASF.

Mr Speaker, while appreciating that the Government has undertaken pension reforms in order  to address this matter, your Committee contends that cosmetic measures at this moment will not work and that the effects of harmonisation of salaries are actually the biggest source of this problem.

Sir, your Committee is also of the view that the amendments to the Bill do not address the current problems of LASF, thereby rendering it inconsequential. In view of the foregoing, your Committee does not support the Bill, but strongly recommends that the Bill be withdrawn and only brought back to Parliament after a decision is made to either:

(a)    close LASF as a pension scheme and deal with the financial implications that would arise from this decision; or

(b)    re-open membership to LASF and deal with the issues of financial sustainability.

Mr Speaker, the Bill, in its current form, is a mere academic exercise to this House. It is for that reason that your Committee strongly recommends that it be taken back for this will also save money because your Committee was informed that the comprehensive reforms are just around the corner. Therefore, the Committee recommends that the Bill waits for the comprehensive reforms.

Sir, I wish to conclude by thanking all the witnesses who appeared before your Committee for their valuable input into the work of your Committee. I also wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording your Committee an opportunity to consider the Bill. Many thanks also go to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the support rendered to your Committee during its work.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to debate the report of your Committee and make my submissions pertaining to the Bill under consideration.

Sir, first and foremost, I would like to declare interest that I was a member of the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF) to which I contributed for a long time, but have not been paid to date ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Mwiimbu: ... despite retiring. Further, the other interest I would like to declare is that I represented hundreds of former employees of the council who have won their cases against LASF, but have been unable to benefit from the judgement of the courts of law.

Mr Speaker, I wish to support the report of your Committee and state that the amendments that are being proposed by the hon. Minister are cosmetic and will not help, in any way, to solve the problems that are affecting LASF. This is a bankrupt institution. It is insolvent and not able to pay its creditors. The insolvency of this institution emanates from the decision of the Government.

Sir, although I do not want to bring you in my debate, I recall that at one time, the then Minister of Local Government and Housing decided that all those who had served for eighteen years in the local Government system were free to retire, and they were retired. However, at the time, LASF could not meet its commitment to the retirees. As a result, the local authorities in Zambia and LASF have failed to recover from the effects of that decision.

Sir, as if that were not enough, about seven years ago, this august House decided to insulate local authorities in this country by ensuring that all the creditors who were owed and got court judgments against the local authorities could not execute the judgment against the councils. As a result of that decision, most of the councils are reluctant to make contributions to LASF for they are aware that no action will be taken against them even if they do not pay. That is what has happened. LASF has become impotent because it has no power whatsoever to sanction local authorities. Contributions to LASF have become discretionary to principal officers of councils. As a result of that bad law, which we passed in this House, thousands of people have not been paid their terminal benefits and have become destitute. Councils are bankrupt. Consequently, they have failed to pay LASF. Why are we bringing an amendment to affect an institution that is already bankrupt? It will not solve the problem.

Sir, as your Committee has indicated, we need a holistic approach to this issue. You cannot deal with the issues of LASF in isolation. You can only solve the problem of LASF if you deal with the financing of the local Government system. There are no two ways about it. As councillors, we are aware that all councils are failing to make contributions to this fund.

Mr Speaker, there is no council in Zambia that is up to date with its contributions to LASF. The Government is equally aware of the problems that have dogged this fund. Therefore, by merely adjusting the retirement age, we are postponing a problem and are continuously pushing our people into destitution. Further, even the monthly payments that are supposed to come from this fund are not adequate enough to sustain a family.

 Sir, I am aware that there are retirees who are members of LASF who get K20.00 every month. What can you buy from that amount? Speaking for myself, I am supposed to be getting K100.00 as a retiree and a beneficiary of this fund. I know that my colleagues on your right like Hon. Yaluma contributed to LASF and I think he agrees with me that something needs to be done about it.

 Mr Speaker, I would like to urge the hon. Minister Local Government and Housing to seriously consider the report of your Committee, withdraw this amendment and bring it back in the next session of Parliament so that he can deal with this matter adequately and holistically. There is no way we are going to solve the problems affecting council employees by this mere amendment.

Sir, I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to consider my proposal for I know that he was very passionate when he was the President of the University of Zambia Student Union (UNZASU) when I was a student. He was very concerned about the plight of workers.

 Mr Speaker: Order!

 Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to withdraw that statement.

Sir, I would like to urge the hon. Minister to seriously consider this issue that has been raised in the report of your Committee and withdraw this amendment. We are not against this amendment per se, but shall support it if it is done holistically.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to make a few remarks on this important subject. Like my colleagues, I also wish to state that I will be very brief.   

Sir, the ministerial statement which has been given to this House today by the hon. Minister of Homes Affairs was precise, concise and to the point. Equally, that is the way I look at this report. It is maybe one of the shortest if not the shortest report. Although it is an amendment, it is brief and to the point. I personally understand the frustrations that your Committee went through because of some of the responsibilities that you have given us in other Committees.

Mr Speaker, I gave an example of the statement which was delivered by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs because I want to pick one item from it. If there are two issues confronting this nation today, it is that of land grabbing and the political hooliganism that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is trying to handle.

Secondly, Sir, one of the biggest challenges this country is faced with relates to pension schemes. The institutions in question are Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASIF), Public Service Pension Scheme and the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). As I said, because of the jobs that you have given us, the people we have interacted with have called upon the Government to address the pension scheme in this country.

Mr Speaker, the genesis of this problem is known and it is when the National Pension Scheme Authority Act was created in the 2000. At that point, all the new entrants to the pension schemes were transferred to NAPSA. Since then, LASF has remained stagnant. As stated by the Chairperson of your Committee, there were 17,000 members then but, today, we are talking of about 4,000. What has happened is that this scheme cannot sustain itself. So, if it cannot sustain itself, it now becomes the responsibility of the Government to look into this issue.

 Mr Speaker, when you read the report, you may think that it is confrontational because of some of the terms used like “cosmetic changes” and “piecemeal approach”. However, that is the reality on the ground. So, the report is not confrontational. The piecemeal arrangement and cosmetic changes will not help. At this point in time, what we need is to take the bull by its horn.

Mr Speaker, the adjustment of the retirement age from fifty-five to sixty is also cosmetic. It is not an issue at this point. We need to address the main issue, which is the suffering of the people who have contributed to this pension scheme.

Sir, adjusting the retirement age from fifty-five to sixty years is like saying that he who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day. You are just postponing the problem. This is what this report is indicating. So, there is a need for us to handle this issue squarely. We expected the Government to address issues of recapitalisation as the first step. Unfortunately, that is not so. Recapitalising this institution would have been the first step towards addressing the problems being experienced. Continuing with the current strategy of having members subscribe to LASF will yield nothing. We should also have put emphasis on the investment. Today, LASF has no worthwhile investment. So, even if we adjusted the retirement age, we are not helping the situation. This is the frustration that your Committee went through. I think, for the first time, hon. Minister, Ba Phiri, mwaitaya ba mudala, ...

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Speaker, I am sorry.

Hon. Minister, I know how agile and understanding you are and that you like solving problems. That is why your Committee has recommended that you withdraw this Motion. If anything, you have indicated that the National Pension Scheme Bill will be brought to this House soon. If we pass this Bill now, we shall sit back and relax while the people of Zambia continue suffering. Why the rush if the law is in the offing? This is what we are calling academic. It is not because we want to demean you or your decisions, but we want you to be realistic because we know the frustrations that the people have. It is either we close LASF or re-open it to new membership. This report is non-controversial and to the point. Your Committee means well. So, I want to support its recommendations.

With these few comments, I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to debate on this important Motion. I am not afraid of being punished. So, from the outset, I want to state that I beg to differ with your Committee’s recommendations for the reasons that I will advance.

Sir, from what the hon. Minister has said, and reading through the Bill, my understanding is that it is not talking about recapitalising the Local Authority Superannuation Fund (LASF), but adjusting the retirement age. I will explain a bit on how we can make LASF viable and where the funds should come from. Before I explain how this Fund should be sustained, I would like to request the hon. Minister to consider making further amendments to the Bill because I am not comfortable with Clause 2, which describes the pensionable age as sixty. If the pensionable age is sixty, then, when we consider Clause 26, which says that a person can retire at fifty-five, then, it means that a retiree will only be paid by LASF upon reaching the retirement and pensionable age of sixty. However, if an employee who retirees at fifty-five will be able to get his/her pension, then, I have no objection with that. In that case, I would request the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to amend the meaning of pensionable age so that even a person who retires at fifty-five can receive his/her pension.

Mr Speaker, I agree that LASF is in problems. Between 1991 and 1993, there was an Act of Parliament that made it mandatory for staff of the local authorities who had served for twenty-two years and above to retire. I remember that because then, I was the Branch Chairperson for the Zambia United Local Authorities Workers Union (ZULAWU). Most of our members left employment because of that Act which came into being sometime in 1992. Many people got their pension benefits from LASF. The indiscipline by most principal officers of not remitting workers’ contributions coupled with the councils not being able to remit their contributions, made it impossible for the LASF to re-invest its funds. Unlike the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA), which invested in various properties, LASF could not. As a result, the problems continued. Lack of revenue in the councils worsened the situation for LASF. This is because councils were unable to remit members’ contributions to LASF.

Sir, if this institution is to be resuscitated, the only way to do that will be to empower councils to raise more revenue. It is for this reason that I would like to request the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to ensure that the crop levy, which was expunged, is restored. I know that the by-laws are currently in force and there was no by-law which withdrew the powers from the councils regarding the collection of the crop levy other than the Presidential pronouncement which was made on the Floor of this House. Legally speaking, councils can still collect the crop levy because there was no corresponding statutory instrument to implement the Presidential directive to expunge the crop levy.

Mr Speaker, it is important that the Government honours the payment of grants to the local authorities, in line with the provisions of the Local Government (Amendment) Act. There are specific grants enshrined in the Act. Alas, the Government does not remit the grants to councils even after the establishment of the Local Government Equalisation Fund (LGEF). According to the guidelines, the grants given under the LGEF are meant to pay salaries of council employees in Divisions I to III. However, there is no component of remittance of workers’ contributions to the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF). If the LGEF had a component of the workers’ contributions to LASF, things would be okay.

Mr Speaker, there are various ways and means of resuscitating LASF. One of them is by empowering councils to collect revenues such as crop levy, which they are unable to collect at the moment. This would also relieve the Government of the burden of giving grants to the local authorities. At the moment, councils are solely dependent on the Government for their operations. If the Government does not have adequate resources, it is forced to find money elsewhere to send to the local authorities. The local authorities cannot perform their functions properly because of lack of funding. So, making LASF viable does not lie in the institutions itself, but in ensuring that there is viability in the operations of the local authorities in Zambia.

Mr Speaker, in the past, contributions to LASF came from the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) and councils. When there was the amendment to remove new entrants from contributing to LASF, I think it was politics at play between the hon. Ministers responsible for labour and local government respectively. The hon. Minister responsible for labour was more concerned with protecting the National Pension Scheme Authority (NAPSA). NAPSA falls under the Ministry of Labour and Social Security while LASF is under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. Maybe, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing had a upper hand at that time, hence the decision was made that people who were joining councils should remit their contributions to NAPSA.

Mr Speaker, had the local authority employees continued to contribute to LASF, the situation would be different. I think it is important that when a Club Memo is brought to the Cabinet, whether it is for NAPSA or LASF, we must look at it holistically so that we do not disadvantage any of the two pension schemes. So, I would like to urge the Government to ensure that staff  of the local authorities contribute to the LASF like it was in the past.

Mr Speaker, as regards the issue of the retirement age, maybe, the sixty years being proposed can be limited to professional staff because it is usually expensive to train professionals. Instead of letting valuable brains go, maybe, it is better to retain them. Failure to retaining professional people in local authorities is one of the factors that have left to the poor performance of LASF, especially in the area of accounting.

Therefore, Mr Speaker, the solution to make LASF viable has nothing to do with withdrawing the Bill that has been brought here today.  Firstly, we have to make amendments to the Local Government (Amendment) Act which should compel the Government to give grants that are due to councils in order for them to perform their functions effectively.

Mr Speaker, withdrawing this Bill will not be helpful to our colleagues who are still serving in the Local Government. Like I said earlier, I would propose that some amendments be made. I would ask those who debated earlier, to move amendments to the LASF Act to make the fund viable. Why was LASF viable in the past? It was able to pay retirees like those I mentioned who retired after twenty-two years of service. So, instead of withdrawing the Bill, what amendments can we move to make it possible for LASF to be sustainable in its operations?

Mr Speaker, the sustainability of the operations of LASF lies in councils and whoever is supposed to remit contributions to the fund through workers’ and employers’ contributions. That way, the fund is going to be viable. Once councils start remitting contributions to LASF, those who will be charged with the responsibility of running LASF should start investing in business ventures like NAPSA so that it begins to earn more money.

Mr Speaker, I would like to request the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing not to withdraw this Bill because that will not be in the interest of people who are still serving in the local authorities. However, let us propose amendments to the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund Act.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Shamenda): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate. Firstly, I would like to thank your Committee for highlighting the issues affecting our pension schemes. I would like to support the first recommendation by your Committee. When we debated the NAPSA Act, we said it should be in line with other laws that are already in place regarding the pension arrangements for the Public Service. During the deliberations of the NAPSA Act, your Committee also supported the amendment to adjust the retirement age to bring it in line with other pension arrangements.

Mr Speaker, so, I would plead with your Committee that, as others have indicated, while we are looking at the issues affecting the Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (LASF), we can debate them since the Government will be bringing a Bill to overhaul the three pension schemes soon. NAPSA will be the basic one, which will be cross-cutting. Then, there will be the occupational ones of which LASF will be a part. The Public Service Pension Scheme will be both pension and occupational and will feed into the basic one. So, NAPSA will be in line with the Public Service Pension Scheme. Only LASF will be outside the normal pension arrangement. It is because of this that we have recommended that the retirement age for other pension schemes be adjusted.

Sir, both your Committee and the House have raised issues that are valid will be taken care of as we debate LASF so that it is in line with the basic pension scheme because the members of LASF will also be members of the basic pension scheme. So, according to the basic pension scheme, the retirement age will be sixty while that for the occupational pension scheme will be fifty-five. So, if we do not amend the retirement age for the latter, there will be a contradiction.

Mr Speaker, the issues that are being raised now were identified by the Government. These are the issues we shall be debating when we bring the Pension Schemes Reforms to this House. So, I beg with the House that we harmonise the pension schemes as we debated when I brought the Bill relating to NAPSA. I would like to remind the House about the submission which was made by Hon. Muntanga, which confirms what we are discussing today. If you were in the House then, you would have supported the Bill as it was proposed in the original arrangement by your Committee. This was echoed by my younger sister, Hon. Imenda from Luena.

Mr Speaker, I think it is very clear that we are speaking on the same page except that we are discussing issues which are not pertinent to the amendment which is on the Floor of this House.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, I am indebted to your Committee for provoking debate, but let me hasten to thank Hon. Namulambe and the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security for the insights they have given. I hope we are sufficiently persuaded to allow this Bill to go through with amendments and that the other contentious issues be addressed at a later stage as we reform the pension schemes.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Opposition Members called for a division.

Hon. Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Sir, some hon. Members are voting twice.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Nkombo: Some hon. Members are fidgeting with other hon. Members’ cards.

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Speaker: Let us proceed.

Question that the Local Authorities Superannuation (Amendment) Bill 2015, be read a second time put and the House voted.

Ayes – (52)

Mrs E. Banda
Mr I. Banda
Mr N. Banda
Mr C. Bwalya
Mr Chansa
Mr Chikwanda
Mr Chipungu
Mr Chisala
Mr Chisopa
Mr Chitotela
Ms Kabanshi
Mr Kafwaya
Ms Kapata
Brig-Gen. Kapaya
Mr Kapeya
Col. Kaunda
Mr Kazabu
Ms Kazunga
Mr Kosamu
Mr Lingweshi
Dr Lungu
Col. Lungu
Prof. Luo
Mr Mbulu
Ms Miti
Mr Monde
Mrs Mphande
Mr Mpundu
Ms Mulasikwanda
Mr Mumba
Mr Mushanga
Mr Musonda
Mr Mutale
Dr Mwali
Mr Mwaliteta
Mrs Mwanakatwe
Mr Mwango
Mr Mwila
Mr Namulambe
Ms Ngimbu
Mr P. Ngoma
Mr Ng’onga
Dr J. T. Phiri
Mr Shamenda
Mr Shuma
Mr Siamunene
Mr Sichalwe
Mr Sichone
Mr Simbao
Dr Simbyakula
Mr Yaluma
Mr Zulu

Noes – (23)

Mr Antonio
Mr Chitafu
Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo
Mr Habeenzu
Prof. Lungwangwa
Mr Mbewe
Mr Mbulakulima
Mr Milambo
Mr Miyutu
Mr Mtolo
Mr Mucheleka
Mr Mulomba
Mr Musokotwane
Mr Mutati
Mr Mwiimbu
Mr Ndalamei
Mr L. J. Ngoma
Mr Nkombo
Mr Pande
Lt-Gen. Rev. Shikapwasha

Abstentions - (03)
 
Mrs Chungu
Ms Namugala
Mr Simuusa

Question accordingly agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committee on Thursday, 23rd July, 2015.

REPORT STAGE

THE ANTI-TERRORISM (Amendment) BILL, 2015

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Clause 2 on page 3, in line 10 and 11 be amended by the deletion of the definition of “authorised officer”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause 2 amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Report adopted.

Third Reading on Wednesday, 22nd July, 2015.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read a third time and passed:

The Urban and Regional Planning Bill, 2015

The Forests Bill, 2015

The Referendum (Amendment) Bill, 2015

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MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Finance and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House (Mr Chikwanda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

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The House adjourned at 1811 hours until Wednesday, 22nd July, 2015.

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