Debates - Tuesday, 14th July, 2015

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Tuesday, 14th July, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






609. Mr Miyutu (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Health:

(a)    when the construction of the health centres under the 650 health posts project would commence in Kalabo District, considering that the rainy season in the Western Province is likely to start in four months time;

(b)    what had caused the delay in commencing the project; and

(c)    what the timeframe for the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Chilufya): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the construction of health posts in Kalabo District, as part of the project to establish 650 health posts in Zambia, is in accordance with our schedule. We are expected to formally commence construction not later than 25th July, 2015. To this effect, the contractor has already started the process of site possession in readiness to commence substructure works in Kalabo. I also want to add that borehole drilling has already commenced with one borehole drilled in Mishiliundu Area of Kalabo District.

Sir, commencement of the project in Kalabo has not delayed as the contractor has made a programme where he is implementing works from one district to the next. Currently, he is working in Kaoma, Mongu, Senanga, Limulunga and Nalolo districts and is expected to move to Kalabo as well as other districts in the Western Province accordingly. I, however, wish to state that discussions are still being held with all contractors to increase on the number of teams undertaking substructure construction works so that we have all districts being covered before the onset of the rains.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member may wish to know that the project is a two-year project running from April, 2014 to April, 2016

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, I would like to appreciate the response by the hon. Minister, but I still stick to the work delay because it was the Ministry of Health, through the hon. Minister, that indicated that the construction of the health posts in Kalabo and the Western Province, in particular, should have commenced on 1st January, 2015. If the hon. Minister feels that there is no delay, could he substantiate his argument that the works have not delayed.

 Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, we have been in constant discussions with our contractors and the    projection duration is two years from, April, 2014 to April, 2016. So, in terms of their scheduling, they are able to propose certain changes based on challenges that they will present to the ministry. Schedules that may be different from the initial ones are submitted from time to time.

Sir, what is significant is that the contractor has maintained the two-year implementation period and has re-submitted a new schedule. The House may wish to know that, tomorrow, we are having a meeting to review the schedule of works in the various districts.

 Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, it is true that the time lines that were promised even in Lubansenshi Parliamentary Constituency, with regards to the construction of the health posts have not be respected. It is also true that the contractor is way behind schedule. Is it possible that the hon. Minister can come to this House to give us a comprehensive statement, in the next few days, with regards to the status of each of the 650 health posts indicating where we are and the challenges that are being faced? This way, it will be easy for us to explain to the people in our constituencies for them to appreciate the challenges that the ministry might be facing.

 Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, as I said earlier on, the Government has summoned all the three contractors to a meeting tomorrow. At this meeting, we will review the progress made on the works and discuss challenges and map out the way forward. As I said earlier on, there may have been a few changes in the scheduling, based on the discussions that have been held with our technical teams, but significantly, we will ensure that the project finishes within the timeframe that is in the contract which is two years.

 Mr Speaker: Order!

 Are you able to give a rollout programme?

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, when we meet with the contractors tomorrow, we will come up with a new schedule which I am sure will be circulated to hon. Members of Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

 Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, for the benefit of all hon. Members in this House and the people we represent out there, may I find out from the hon. Minister of Health how many health posts out of the 650 are already under construction.

 Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, as we speak, 221 substructures have been constructed and the erection of super structures has commenced. So far, we have ten superstructures that have been completed and works are ongoing in the other superstructures.  In terms of site possession, the last update is that the contractors have taken possession in, at least, 367 sites. We expect an update tomorrow.

 Mr Speaker, I thank, you.

 Mr Mutelo (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, is it possible for the hon. Minister to advise the contractors to start this project in the hard-to-reach places such as Lwashishi because these are the genesis of the rural health posts. What I have noticed is that these contractors are just rushing to places that are not hard to reach. Could the hon. Minister advise the contractors to consider that.   

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, I was privileged to be in the Western Province a few days ago, and the hon. Member of Parliament may have heard the directive we gave to all the three contractors to mobilise in all the hard-to-reach places before the onset of the rainy season.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, is it possible for the hon. Minister to tell me where the ten complete supper structures have been constructed? I am interested in this matter and I want to have an idea of how they look like.

Mr Speaker: He wants to sample.

Dr Chilufya: Mr Speaker, he could go to Mukututu in Nalolo District. The supper structure there has been completed.

I thank you, Sir.


611. Mr Mbewe (Chadiza) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    when the construction of Zingalume/Naviruli Road in Chadiza District would commence;

(b)    what had caused the delay in commencing the works;

(c)    who the contractor for the project was; and

(d)    what the cost of the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Dr Mwali): Mr Speaker, the commencement for the major rehabilitation of Zingalume/Navuruli Road in Chadiza has been planned for 2016, under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. In the interim, the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) is currently carrying out maintenance works on the road to keep it passable.

Sir, the delay has been due to the non availability of funds. The RRU is undertaking the maintenance works and no contractor has been engaged for the major rehabilitation on the project yet.

Mr Speaker, the cost of the maintenance works currently taking place is K647,000, whereas the cost of the major rehabilitation works will only be known once a contractor has been engaged.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I speak on behalf of the people of Chadiza. I want to thank the hon. Minister and his colleague for the good job that the RRU is doing. The works on the road are properly done. However, the people of Chadiza are wondering why the RRU is slowly demobilising. We are getting worried because equipment is being withdrawn before all the work is completed.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, I am not aware that the RRU is slowly demobilising. I can only assume that most probably, the funds may have run out.

I thank you, Sir.


612. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    what the staff establishment of the Road Development Agency (RDA) was:

(i)    at its inception; and

(ii)    as of December, 2014; and

(b)    what the cost of the following exercise was, as of February, 2015:

(i)    operations for the entire fleet of motor vehicles, countrywide;

(ii)    rentals for office accommodation, countrywide; and

(iii)    emoluments for the staff, countrywide.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, staff establishment, at inception, which was March, 2006, was 306 employees and 486 employees as at December, 2014.

Sir, the cost of operations for the entire fleet of motor vehicles for February, 2015, was K461,942.00. Rentals for office accommodation, countrywide, for February, 2015, were K134,388.00 while emoluments for the entire staff for the month of February, 2015 were K8,875,824.00.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, when will this establishment extend its operations to all districts in the country?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, it is our intention to have the Road Development Agency (RDA) extend its operations to all districts. However, the timeframe within which that can be done has not yet been fixed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm whether the Road Development Agency (RDA) has shifted from State House.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, the head office for the RDA is along Alick Nkhata Road.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has just informed us that the head office for the RDA is along Alick Nkhata Road. Therefore, I would like to find out if the RDA is renting those premises or the agency built the offices. If it is renting, then, that is another expense.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, these are rented offices and that is part of the rentals I was talking about. The RDA is paying K119,000 in rentals.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


613. Mr Miyutu asked the Minister of Youth and Sport:

(a)    whether the Olympic Youth Development Centre (OYDC) had had any benefits on rural communities, countrywide;

(b)    if none, when the OYDC would begin to offer its services to the rural communities;

(c)    whether there were any plans to build the OYDCs in provincial centres; and

(d)    if so, when the plans would be implemented.

The Deputy Minister of Youth and Sport (Mr Chitotela): Mr Speaker, the centre encamps and trains athletes selected from provincial centres and are scheduled to represent the nation in international competitions in various sport disciplines. For example, in football, through the Airtel Rising Stars, all provincial teams gather at the OYDC to compete for positions in the national team. Further, the centre hosts inter-provincial competitions in various sport disciplines for the talent identification programme.

Sir, as a facility, the OYDC is open to all the athletes and coaches, including those coming from the rural communities. As such, the OYDC is already offering services to all parts of Zambia.

It is the Government’s policy to construct sports infrastructure in all parts of the country to increase the participation of the citizenry in sports. The aim is to have sports complexes similar to the OYDC at all provincial centres. The construction of the multi-purpose sports facilities in provincial centres is an ongoing programme. In this regard, the Government is constructing a similar facility in Chinsali, Muchinga Province. The rate at which facilities will be constructed around the country is dependent on the availability of financial resources.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simfukwe (Mbala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has been very clear in answering the question that was raised by the hon. Member. In his answer, the hon. Minister has stated that there is an ongoing programme of constructing sports facilities in all provincial centres. There is also information in the public domain that the ministry is in the process of procuring footballs, jerseys and various other materials to send to provincial centres and constituencies. Can the hon. Minister take this opportunity to update us on the progress that has been made towards procuring these sports materials.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, I know that this is a very interesting topic despite the fact that it is not part of the main question. Nonetheless, I want to assure all hon. Members of Parliament that we are in the process of procuring footballs and jerseys that will be distributed to all the 150 constituencies.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister says that a sports centre is already being constructed in Chinsali, Muchinga Province, among the facilities that will be constructed in various provincial centres. Does every new programme have to start in Chinsali, Muchinga Province? This has been the case with regard to constructing new universities and everything else.

Mr Chitotela: No, Mr Speaker. Currently, we have awarded a contract for the construction of a modern sports centre that encompasses various sporting activities in Mongu, in the Western Province. The football stadium that we are constructing there has other sports facilities for sport disciplines such as basketball and tennis around the area.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, this ministry has been promising to procure footballs and jerseys from the time the Patriotic Front (PF) came into power. Can the hon. Minister be precise and tell us when the procurement of these items will be done, as promised on the Floor of this House.

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, speaking from a point of principle and hoping that hon. Members of Parliament will believe me, I wish to inform the House that we directed the Permanent Secretary (PS) in our ministry to begin the process of procuring footballs and jerseys to be distributed to all hon. Members of Parliament. This process is underway and as soon as it is concluded, we will send a circular to every hon. Member of Parliament to come and collect his/her consignment. Each constituency will receive a portion from these footballs and jerseys.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, the Olympic Youth Development Centre (OYDC) is a good facility which was constructed during the tenure of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government. The hon. Minister has given us a blanket answer and in a few months, we will be considering the National Budget. Therefore, could he be specific and tell us if there is a road map to start constructing some of the planned sports centres soon, rather than saying that this will be done when funds are available. For example, how many centres will be constructed in 2016?

Mr Chitotela: Mr Speaker, we have identified a place to construct a sports centre in Mufumbwe District, in the North-Western Province, funds permitting. We should be able to begin the advertising process, probably, by the beginning of 2016.  As I said, the process of constructing a sports centre in Muchinga Province is underway and we have just awarded a contract for the construction of a stadium in the Western Province. Next year, we may move to the North-Western Province.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


615. Mr Mutelo asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    whether the Government was aware of a suspected bomb blast that occurred in Mitete District in April, 2015;

(b)    whether there were any injuries or deaths arising from the blast and, if so, how many people had been affected;

(c)    what the cause of the blast was; and

(d)    how secure the people who lived in the area from Chavuma via Mitete and Lukulu to Sesheke were.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Col. Kaunda): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of a bomb blast that occurred in Lukulu District and not Mitete District on 17th April, 2015, around 1500 hours. Two male adults suffered serious injuries. There was a Zambian aged thirty-three years of Kasoka village of Chief Imenda’s area, in Lukulu District who lost both legs, left hand and an eye. The other person was an Angolan national aged twenty-three years of Malikihi village of Chief Chinunki’s area in Kazonbu District, Angola, who lost both hands and a right leg. No deaths occurred during the bomb blast.

The two injured persons tampered with the bomb and in the process blew themselves up. They believed that there was red mercury in the bomb, which they wanted to extract. The bomb was brought into the country by three Angolan nationals. The bomb was identified by bomb experts as a motor bomb. The injured are still admitted at Lukulu Hospital.

Mr Speaker, the people who live in the area are safe, as the bomb involved in the incident was brought to Lukulu from a neighbouring country. The Government continues conducting sensitisation activities to educate people on the dangers of tampering with suspicious devices. The people are also being sensitised on misinformation doing rounds in rural areas about red mercury.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutelo: Mr Speaker, I am glad that the Government is aware of that bomb blast. However, for the hon. Minister’s information, just yesterday a man only identified as Mr Kupeleka was shot dead in cold blood by Karavinas. I am just from Lukulu and Mitete and what the hon. Minister said on the Floor of this House about sensitisation is not happening there. Therefore, who is conducting this sensitisation and how is it being done?

Col. Kaunda: Sir, we have provincial hon. Deputy Ministers in all provincial centres. We also have District Commissioners (DCs) whose job is to govern districts. These are the people overseeing this programme.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyanda (Mapatizya): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister, in his statement, has indicated that this bomb was brought by three people from Angola, if I quoted him right. I want to find out from you, hon. Minister, what could have been the motive of these people that crossed from Angola into Zambia with a bomb.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, at the risk of repeating myself, I said that the motive of these gentlemen was to extract red mercury from the bombs which they use for whatever purpose.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Imenda: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that response. I would like to follow up what he has said about these bombs coming from Angola. I am aware that, in the Western Province, the Government intends to re-settle 10,000 refugees. It follows, again, that are the people of the Western Province safe since these people cannot work alone?

Col. Kaunda: Sir, unfortunately, when you have neighbours who had issues with security these incidences do happen. We cannot say that there will be no incidences that will threaten the security of this area and that people will be quite safe. Unfortunately, all of us, the police, soldiers, including hon. Members of Parliament who live in those areas, just have to be vigilant at all times. Constituents also need to be educated on the need to be careful in their dealings with our neighbours.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Miyutu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister was saying that the people in this area are secure. Can the hon. Minister give us a clear picture of how these Angolans are able to cross into Zambia and bring in those bombs and other weapons without the Government being aware? How safe, then, are the people?

Col. Kaunda: Sir, our borders are very porous. It is almost impossible to police every single kilometre of the borders. So, this issue of our brothers from our neighbouring countries, coming over in various forms  such as visitors or Karavinas is one which will come up once in a while. This is owed to the nature of our porous borders.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I tend to wonder why these people came to Zambia and tried to extract that red mercury on our land instead of doing it on the other side where they belong. Why did that happen in that manner? Would the hon. Minister enlighten me.

Mr Speaker: Are you able, hon. Minister?


Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, I was not part of the operational group that had a meeting and decided to come to Zambia for whatever it is. I would not know.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Namulambe (Mpongwe): Mr Speaker, there are areas in the Western Province and some parts of the Southern Province that have some explosives which are remnants of war. At some point, we were helped by the Norwegian Government to comb the areas. Now, on the issue of sensitisation, is it possible that, as a ministry, you could invite the hon. Members of Parliament from the Western Province and other affected areas, with the help of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, to help by explaining to their constituents the dangers of some of those weapons which they just pick. This will help the people of the Western Province and other affected areas avoid getting maimed like those people that are lying in hospital.

Col. Kaunda: Mr Speaker, as governments, we have what we call the Joint Permanent Commissions (JPCs) where we meet to discuss security matters and explain all these problems. I am sure that these issues are raised by Ministers when they meet and, through them, the hon. Members of Parliament in their areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, my question was on the Joint Permanent Commissions (JPCs). I am sure that we have a JPC between ourselves and Angola. If the matter has not been raised in the JPC, are there any steps being taken to raise the matter in that commission.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila): Mr Speaker, we have taken note of the concerns. We will raise the matter.

I thank you, Sir.


616. Mr Namulambe asked the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock whether the Government had set up a fund for purposes of providing loans to small-scale farmers to promote irrigation farming.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Monde): Mr Speaker, the Ministry is currently running a Matching Grant Facility through the Irrigation Investment Support Fund. US$7 million is available for acquisition of on-farm irrigation productive equipment and assets for eligible farmer groups, co-operatives, women groups and vulnerable small-holder farmers across the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what mechanism the hon. Minister has put in place to make people aware on how to access these funds because I am aware that these funds have been lying idle for more than five years without being accessed.

Mr Monde: Mr Speaker, from the time that these agreements are made and funds become available, there are many procedures that are involved because this is a World Bank/Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) kind of a fund. Modalities have been put in place. On the part of irrigation, there are two sections. A total of US$16 million has been split into two for the two sections. One half is for Government institutions such as the Zambia National Service (ZNS) and prisons. Currently, applications have already been received on that section. The second half is on individual groups and co-operatives. Very soon, advertisements will be running.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, the lack of sensitisation on this particular matching grant facility has made it difficult for, especially, rural small-scale farmers who would like to engage in irrigation farming to access the resources. Can the hon. Minister tell us the minimum or maximum amounts that can be borrowed or if it is a grant, state how much can be accessed through this Matching Grant.

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that important question and for her observation. Indeed, we in them ministry are also concerned at the slow rate at which we are releasing this money. This is largely due to the very low rate at which our farmers are applying for this Matching Grant. I did promise you, Mr Speaker, that I will use Parliament, with your permission, to update the House and, through it, update the country on irrigation development and irrigation funds. I am sure that in the next few days, I will do that. However, beyond that, we need to scale-up our programme for sensitising small- scale farmers for them to access this money.

Sir, let me clarify that this is not a loan. It is a grant which requires matching funds from the applicant. We have not set any ceilings, neither the bottom nor the top ceiling. It all depends on the kind of irrigation schemes that the small-scale farmers would like to develop.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that, very soon, modalities on how to access these funds will be put in place. I would want the hon. Minister to inform us and, through us, the nation, some of the salient requirements for one to access these funds.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, if I listened carefully to the hon. Deputy Minister, he did not say that modalities will be put in place because they already are in place. I said that we regret the fact that we may not have done as much as we should have in sensitising farmers. I further said that in the next few days, I will come, with your permission, to update the House on all the funds that are available for irrigation purposes. At this stage, I will answer the questions such as the one Hon. Livune has asked.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Siliya (Petauke Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister rightly notes that the ministry has not done enough to sensitise our farmers on the Matching Grant. Would he not consider this an urgent matter? Why not use district agriculture offices that we have throughout the country instead of waiting to advertise and coming to Parliament in Lusaka which is a central place?

Mr Speaker, it is unacceptable that with the challenges we have had with rainfall this year, there is no irrigation going on. I have gone around Petauke and there is no irrigation taking place, and yet there is money sitting around. Would the hon. Minister not consider this an urgent matter and ensure that all the requirements are made available, especially at district level?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Imenda: Quality!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I wonder how else I should register the sense of urgency than to say that within the next few days, I will come to Parliament to inform this House and, through this House, the nation and, thereby, ensure that all the people are sensitised. I do not think that this is a matter that must be dramatised.

Sir, I have spoken about this matter and acknowledged the fact that there is a need for us to do more than what has been done so far. What other institution is better placed through which to inform the people than this House?
I have made an undertaking that with your permission, Sir, I will address the matter within the next few days, forty-eight hours probably. This is the sense of urgency I attach to this important matter.

 I thank you, sir.


617. Mr Chitafu (Kafulafuta) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    how many bridges were rehabilitated in Kafulafuta Parliamentary Constituency from January, 2011 to date;

(b)    if none, when the rehabilitation of the bridges would commence; and

(c)    what measures had been taken to ensure regular maintenance of bridges in the constituency.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, two bridges and three culverts were worked on in Kafulafuta Parliamentary Constituency from January, 2011, to date.

Sir, a Budget line for the rehabilitation of some culverts and bridges on the Copperbelt will be considered for inclusion in the 2016 Road Sector Annual Work Plan. This Budget line will cover some of the culverts and bridges which are in need of intervention in Kafulafuta Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr Speaker, procurement of contractors to do the routine and periodic maintenance of bridges is currently in progress. It is expected that the works will commence in the first quarter of 2016.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether this effort that the hon. Minister has mentioned as regards the building of bridges in Kafulafuta Constituency are in any way connected with an arrangement that was made by the Government three years ago to engage the Zambia Army and the Zambia National Service to do nationwide rehabilitation of small river crossings and whether this initiative is still on the desk of the hon. Minister and his Permanent Secretary.

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, this arrangement is still on the table. However, it is not involved in these planned works on the bridges and culverts in Kafulafuta Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, councils are road authorities and are also responsible for bridges. The Road Development Agency (RDA), the Rural Roads Unit (RRU) and the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) also deal with bridges. How do these institutions collaborate in ensuring that bridges that are damaged are not only worked on, but also on time?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, councils fall under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing which collaborate with our ministry. The same applies to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU).

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Livune: Mr Speaker, local authorities, in collaboration with the RRU, in working on bridges heavily depend on funding that is due to them from the Budget that we pass in this Parliament. Considering that most districts, like Kazungula, have not received the 2014 allocations, how will the ministry help them receive their money so that they can work on bridges, most of which are in dire need of repair?

Dr Mwali: Mr Speaker, in our search for an answer to this question, we confined ourselves to Kafulafuta Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.


618.    Mr Chipungu asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health when Tengama Clinic in Rufunsa Parliamentary Constituency, which was constructed using Constituency Development Fund (CDF), would be opened to the public.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mr Chisala): Mr Speaker, the clinic is currently being used as an outreach post for Chinyunyu Main Clinic and as an outreach site for the district to carter for health service demand. However, Tengama Clinic is not fully operational as it does not have staff accommodation.

Mr Speaker, the area councillor has, so far, mobilised the community and, through this initiative, blocks have been made for the construction of staff accommodation.

Further, funds permitting, the ministry will consider the construction of staff accommodation under the 2016 Infrastructure ...


Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

Mr Chisala: ... Operational Plan.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, 2016 is too far. Is it not possible for the ministry to find some minimal resources to finish what is remaining in order for the clinic to be fully operational? I am aware that the staff house is almost complete.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, it is practically impossible for the Government to get blood out of a stone.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Chisala: So, the best he should do is just to do as per our ...





The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled, the Constitution of Zambia (Amendment) Bill, 2015. The object of this Bill is to amend the Constitution of Zambia so as to increase the number of elected hon. Members of the National Assembly to 156.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights, Gender Matters, and Child Affairs.  The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House, by Tuesday, 28th July, 2015. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.




Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee for the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, laid on the Table of the House on 10th July, 2015.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, your Committee was guided in all its deliberations by Standing Order No. 152, which sets out the functions of your Committee as follows:

(a)    in addition to any other work placed on it by the Standing Orders of the National Assembly, it shall be the duty of the Committee to examine and propose reforms to the powers, procedures and practices, organisation and facilities of the National Assembly, provided that in proposing such reforms, your Committee shall bear in mind the balance of power between the respective constitutional responsibilities, roles of the National Assembly, the Government and the duties of other House-Keeping Committees;

(b)    the committee shall have powers, when considered necessary, to adjourn and travel within and outside Zambia to solicit information and seek evidence on matters under examination and shall enjoy the powers, rights, privileges and immunities provided to the Committee of the House by the Standing Orders; and

(c)    in its report to the House, the Committee shall include the recommendations of any reforms produced in such reports.

Mr Speaker, the programme of work of your Committee focused on inter alia sensitising the public on the existence and role of the constituency offices, and the functions of hon. Members of Parliament. To achieve this, your Committee undertook a local tour to Luapula Province and Kaputa District in the Northern Province, during which public hearings were conducted in both constituencies. Arising from its interaction with the public at these hearings, your Committee made pertinent observations and recommendations, which I wish to highlight.

Mr Speaker, your Committee learnt that very few people know about the roles of the constituency offices and the functions of the hon. Members of Parliament. Many people are under the impression that the role of hon. Members of Parliament is to assist people with personal needs and problems. There is also a misconception that it is the role of the hon. Member of Parliament to construct roads and clinics. You recall that the Committee has, in previous sessions, undertaken similar tours to other parts of the country to sensitise the public on the roles of constituency offices and the functions of hon. Member of Parliament. So far, your Committee has visited four provinces, namely the Eastern, North-Western, Northern and Luapula. I now wish to report that there has been an increase in the numbers of people who visit the constituency offices in these areas. It has also been observed that the expectations of the visitors at the provincial offices are now more realistic.

Mr Speaker, your Committee recommends that sensitisation of the public on the roles of the constituency offices and the functions of hon. Members of Parliament should not be left only to the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee. All hon. Members of Parliament and the National Assembly management should take an active role in ensuring that the public fully understands the work of its elected representatives, and the opportunity available to them to engage with their representatives through the constituency office.

Construction of Constituency Offices

Mr Speaker, allow me to move to the construction of constituency offices. The House will recall that funds were available to construct three constituency offices in 2014. These constituencies are Keembe, Chama South and Namwala. I wish to report that works at these sites are nearly complete. Your Committee now wishes to inform the House that K15 million is available for the construction of constituency offices in 2015. Of the K15 million, K3 million was from the Government, through the National Budget, and K12 million was from the German Government under the Strengthening of Parliamentary Control in Zambia Project. It is expected that a total of twenty offices will be constructed using these funds. The House should note that only rural constituencies have been selected. This is because these areas have a greater need for decent office accommodation.

National Assembly Strategic Plan

Mr Speaker, I wish to report that the Draft National Assembly Strategic Plan was developed during the period under review. The plan covers the period 2015 to 2019, and is aimed at enhancing the institution’s core functions of legislation, oversight, representation, and approval of the National Budget. The strategic planning process was very consultative and was largely driven by the information generated from recommendations of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee, following the review of various Committee reports. The Hon. Mr Speaker and other presiding officers also provided guidance on the document. Further, the strategic plan was exposed to peer review by the Parliament of Zimbabwe, which provided independent feedback. The Parliament of Zimbabwe was selected because of its vast experience in developing and implementing strategic plans, which it has been doing since 1995.

In addition, in February, 2015, a study visit to the Parliament of Kenya was arranged for the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee to enable the Members learn best practices in strategic planning and management. The strategic plan will be shared with hon. Members of Parliament in due course.

    The Parliamentary Service Commission Bill

The House will recall that in its report for the Third Session of the Eleventh National Assembly, the Committee recommended that the current Constitution be amended so as to provide for the establishment of a Parliamentary Service Commission. I wish to report that your Committee considered the draft Constitution Amendment Bill and the draft Parliamentary Service Commission Bill during the Session.

Your Committee also paid visits to Her Honour the Vice-President and the learned hon. Minister of Justice to seek re-affirmation of the Government’s support to the Bill. I am glad to report to you that both Her Honour the Vice-President and the learned hon. Minister of Justice expressed their support for the Bill and advised that the matter will be tabled before Cabinet, this is considering that the Government is already looking at the amendments to the Constitution, during this meeting of the National Assembly. It is your Committee’s hope that the draft legislation proposed by your Committee will form part of the Constitutional Amendment Bill that the Executive will bring to this House.

    Implementation of Co-operating Partners’ Supported Projects

Mr Speaker, to support implementation of the reform agenda, the National Assembly of Zambia has partnered with various co-operating partners. The institution is currently implementing four projects as detailed in our report, namely:

(a)    enhancing oversight capacity of the National Assembly. This project is supported by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and the objective is to enhance the oversight capacity of the National Assembly;

(b)    support to public finance management accountability and statistics. In 2014, the National Assembly, with support from the European Union (EU), began implementing this project which is aimed at enhancing economic governance in Zambia through improved public finance management for results. The project is also supporting the establishment of a parliamentary budget office. Currently, an interim budget office has been established with fulltime staff, supported by the project office;

(c)    support to parliamentary oversight and legislative functions through strengthening of selected parliamentary committees and increased access to focus on capacity strengthening of the Committee on Education, Science and Technology, Committee on Health, Community Development and Social Services and the Estimates Committee. This project is supported by Irish Aid; and

(d)     strengthening parliamentary control in Zambia. This project is supported by the German Development Bank (KfW). The object of the project is to increase the population’s understanding of parliamentary work and their means to influence this work in a way that the oversight and legislative functions of Parliament become more efficient and effective.

Mr Speaker, the co-operating partners have over the years supported our programmes and for that, I wish to express my deepest gratitude to them. Other matters relating to the welfare of the Members of Parliament and other parliamentary reforms are set out in the report and are being considered by the Standing Orders Committee.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, your Committee wishes to express its gratitude to you for the guidance rendered to it throughout the period under review. Further, your Committee expresses its gratitude to all the members of the public who attended the public hearing sessions in Luapula Province and Kaputa District. I also want to put it on record that your Committee is grateful to all the district leadership in all the districts in Luapula Province and Kaputa District for the co-operation and assistance rendered to it during the local tours.

Last, but not least, Sir, your Committee also wishes to express its appreciation to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the services rendered to it throughout its deliberations.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms Lubezhi: Now, Sir.

Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to thank my colleagues on your Committee for affording me this opportunity to be the seconder of this important Motion which has been ably moved by the Chairperson.

In seconding the Motion, Sir, allow me to make a few remarks. Your Committee was privileged to undertake a foreign tour to Kenya. The purpose of this trip was threefold, namely: to study and benchmark the management and implementation of the strategic plan, to study and benchmark the establishment and operations of the parliamentary service commission and to study and benchmark the establishment and operations of the parliamentary budget office.

Mr Speaker, your Committee wishes to inform the House that the draft strategic plan was done and is being considered by the Standing Orders Committee. Once approved, hon. Members will need to support its implementation.

With regard to the establishment and operations of the Parliamentary Budget Office, your Committee observed that the 2000/2012 Strategic Plan of the Parliament of Kenya prioritised the establishment of the Parliamentary Budget Office, which was actualised. The Parliamentary Budget Office is a professional office which is not aligned to any political party. The primary function of the office is to provide professional services in respect to the budget, finances, economic information to committees and Parliament.

The establishment and operations of the Parliamentary Service Commission has been ably discussed by the mover and, therefore, I will simply highlight the benefits of having a Parliamentary Service Commission. It will enhance the autonomy and oversight function of parliament.

Sir, as explained, the foreign tour to Kenya was beneficial. During the tour, your Committee also visited the Centre for Parliamentary Studies and Training, which is a directorate within the Parliament of Kenya. Its mandate is to initiate and conduct research studies, offer courses, in form of modules, appropriate for the exposition and enhancement of knowledge, skills and capacity of Members of Parliament as well as staff serving in Parliament and other persons, whose functions or work relate to or interact with that of the Parliament. This is one of the few training centres in parliamentary studies and your Committee recommends that the Zambian Parliament makes use of its services to train new hon. Members of Parliament and staff on Parliamentary Business and Practices.

Sir, I am happy to learn that the National Assembly Management has already set tone by engaging the centre to host and facilitate training for staff. This is applauded and should continue.

Mr Speaker, I am a very humble seasoned debater of few words.


Ms Lubezhi: Therefore, allow me to end here, as I know that some hon. Members of Parliament would like to debate our report.

Mr Speaker, I beg to second.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Before we subject this Motion to general debate, I would like to give this opportunity to two hon. Members of Parliament to render their maiden speeches. I will begin with the hon. Member for Senga Hill.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Simbao (Senga Hill): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to give my maiden speech albeit for the second time in one term, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: … and from different sides of the House, but still a Back Bencher. I will, therefore, try to be moderate in my speech to be consistent in thought.

Sir, firstly, some people wondered why I chose to stand on the Patriotic Front (PF) ticket.

Hon. Government Member: Tell them.

Mr Mucheleka interjected.

Mr Simbao: My answer to them is that it was the most logical thing to do.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Simbao: In addition, a number of those who truly wanted me back told me to stand on the PF ticket. It was this advice which made me apply to stand on the PF ticket with a clear mind.

Hon. Government: You have no regrets.

Mr Simbao: I would like to thank my campaign managers, Hon. Freedom Sikazwe and Hon. Mwalimu Simfukwe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Simbao: Sir, I had a lot of support from other hon. Members of Parliament such as Hon. Mwansa Kapeya, Hon. Dr Effron Lungu, Hon. Alfreda Kansembe and many others who spent their time in the constituency. I would like to thank the PF Secretary-General, Mr Chama, and, of course, His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, for their true support.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: I was also amazed by the kind of support I got in the constituency. Almost everyone in my constituency camped in areas in which they chose to campaign for me.

Mr Speaker, I try hard to work for all the people in the constituency and it is for this reason that they always vote for me.

Ms Siliya: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Of course, not everyone votes for me. I am not liked by everyone due to the selfish motives of man, but those who are cautious and analytical, who are the many, always stand by me. If I were to lose an election in that constituency, it would because the constituents would have decided not to vote for me and not by any other circumstances.

Sir, I would like to talk about the issues that need to be addressed in my constituency. The first issue that needs to be addressed is education. My constituency has only has one operational day secondary school ...

Ms Ngimbu entered the Assembly.

Mr Muntanga: Order!

Hon. Government Members: Aah!


Mr Simbao: ... to service a population of 90,000. This secondary school is located in one corner of the constituency and does not cater for every eligible pupil as some stay as far as 200 km from the school. As a result, although the school is a day school, many pupils are forced to squat in people’s homes, which is not conducive. This has led to the girl child being abused in some instances. Therefore, the boarding secondary school under construction at Menje must be quickly completed. This school was started in 2010, but so far, ...


Mr Speaker: Order on the left!

Mr Simbao: ... very little has been done. However, more work has started this year and I am sure the school will be completed by 2016.

Mr Speaker, it is very important for youngsters in Senga Hill Constituency to attain degree qualifications in their areas of study. This will only be possible if they are given the opportunity to do so by preparing them adequately at secondary school level. A first degree, at the right time, is very important. It hammers out the rawness in a person. A person’s line of thought is refined and elevated to the world standard of reasoning. A first degree allows a person to be logical, analytical and always enables one to contribute to the issue at hand meaningfully.

Sir, a first degree taken at the right time, before the mind is fixed, brings out the best in any person. However, there are some who are brilliant, but attempt a first degree when their minds are already hardened. It is those whose minds the first degree fails to have an impact on and their level of reasoning remains raw. Therefore, a degree, at the right age, is a good thing for the youngsters in Senga Hill. I want Senga Hill youngsters to achieve first degrees so that they can contribute to the advancement of Zambia. I, therefore, ask the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to kindly look at Senga Hill and complete the construction of Menje Boarding High School.

Mr Speaker, we have two other secondary schools in the offing which are Mabwe Secondary School, which was started by the late President, Mr Sata, and Chozi Secondary School which was awarded in 2012. Mabwe Secondary School is a primary school being converted into a boarding secondary school. This school will cater for all the pupils along the Mbala/Nakonde Road while Chozi Secondary School will cater for pupils in Isoka, Nakonde, Mungwi and Mbala. It is important that the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education seriously addresses Senga Hill’s school requirements.

Sir, the Tanzania-Zambia Railway Authority (TAZARA) is the breadline of Senga Hill. The station at Chozi is the pride of the constituency, but things have not been well. As I speak, the workers at Chozi have not been paid for five months. Almost all activity in Chozi has come to a standstill. The workers have not been able to send their children to school and businesses have come to a halt as there is no money in circulation. The atmosphere in Chozi is at a standstill.

Mr Speaker, I love this place and the people who work there. I am very concerned about what will happen to these workers and their dependants. I believe that the Government can solve this problem today. Not much money is required to alleviate this suffering. I humbly request the hon. Minister of Finance and the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communications to solve this problem. How nice it would be to put a smile on the faces of TAZARA workers once again.

Sir, in relation to cellular phone signals, Kavumbo, one of the most populated areas in Senga Hill Constituency, does not have a strong signal for cellular phone communication. There is no tower at Kavumbo or anywhere nearby, and yet a lot of people in Kavumbo own cellular phones. Residents can only use their phones in selected areas. The people are asking for a tower so that they can have an effective signal in Kavumbo.

Mr Speaker, I am glad that a team from the Ministry of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication visited Kavumbo and proved for themselves that this was an area in need of a tower. They identified a place for the erection of a tower and promised the people of Kavumbo a speedy construction of the tower. I am very grateful to the hon. Minister for keeping his word. I encourage him to quickly build the tower as expected by the people of Kavumbo.

Sir, the people of Kavumbo, whose main stay is beans, are among the affluent in my constituency. This is the beans-belt of Zambia. Almost 70 per cent of the beans consumed in Zambia comes from this place, so, they need to be in constant contact with Lusaka and Kitwe to monitor the Kwacha rate and the price of beans. Therefore, good communication is cardinal to them.

Mr Speaker, the roads in the constituency are bad. This is one issue which could lose many an election. I suffered during my campaigns due to this issue. I need the roads in my constituency to be worked on.
Sir, we have bought a grader using the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), but that is not enough. The road network in Senga Hill covers a vast expanse, but is poor. It requires a full complement of about five pieces of equipment. In this vein, the 2014 CDF has been allocated to the purchase of the remaining four pieces of equipment.

Mr Speaker, we have embarked on road rehabilitation using our new grader and some pieces of equipment from the Rural Road Unit (RRU). I am most grateful to the province for this assistance and we hope to work on most of our bad roads in the constituency. Therefore, I would like to inform the people of Senga Hill that road works have stated in Chimbili Ward. After that, the equipment will move to Malamba, Lapisha, Ipembe and Chinyika Wards. When works are completed in these wards, then the equipment will moved to Chella/Mwiluzi Wards.

Sir, I hope the Road Development Agency (RDA) will give us a good contractor to work on the road from Nakonde to Chozi up to Nasayanga.  In Mukololo, we will send a grader to work on the Chilesha/Tembo Road and Chilundumuzi Road. I hope we will have enough funds to work on all these roads satisfactorily.

Mr Speaker, as I stand here, the Mbala/Nakonde Road is being worked on and the contractor is working really hard. I must thank the hon. Minister of Finance and the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication for pushing the contractor to finish working on this road expediently. The contractor has now implemented a double-approach strategy and I am sure that the works on the road will be completed before the end of 2016.


Mr Speaker, Senga Hill Constituency is full of river crossings which are made by the people in the area. These crossings are not strong and are usually destroyed every rainy season. I hope to find a way of dealing with this problem. I also wish to dedicate the 2016 CDF to bridge construction in Senga Hill Constituency.  I believe that the 2016 CDF will be sufficient to build strong bridges at these small crossings. I, therefore, request the people of Senga Hill to prepare to participate in the construction of these crossings throughout the constituency. However, the construction of a bridge at Nangwa needs the attention of the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication because it is a big project. In 2011, culverts were provided for construction of this bridge, but at the heat of campaigns, the culverts were moved to Lunte Constituency. This left the people of Senga Hill helpless. May the hon. Minister kindly review that decision and bring back the Road Developmet Agency (RDA) to work on this bridge.


Mr Speaker, the people of Senga Hill are still waiting for their share of the 650 health posts which were promised to be built in that area. They are so excited about this development. They want an assurance that this promise will come to fruition. I would, therefore, like to encourage the hon. Minister of Health to make sure that the contractor who was assigned to construct these clinics in the Northern Province goes on site so that the works can begin. So far, no contractor has moved to any site to start the construction of these clinics. There is nowhere in the Senga Hill Constituency where works have been started. Where is the contractor if he is not in Senga Hill? Please, make sure that this contractor goes to Senga Hill so that the construction of the four clinics in that constituency is started. The clinic at Senga Hill is equipped with a theatre and a dental chair, but has not been commissioned. The people of Senga Hill have to travel very long distances to Kasamba or Mbala to have small illness such as corns and abscesses treated or teeth extracted when these can be done at Senga Hill Clinic. May I request the hon. Minister of Health to look into the plight of the people of Senga Hill so that the theatre is operational.

Police Post

Mr Speaker, we have built a police post which is big enough to be a police station in Senga Hill. We have also built three staff houses, but they lack electricity. The wiring for these buildings has already been done and we just require to connect electricity. Water reticulation has also been done. I would be very grateful if the hon. Minister of Home Affairs took great interest in helping us complete the remaining works and assigned personnel to Senga Hill Police Post. Senga Hill is a metropolitan place and various vices such as suicide and murder have developed. This year alone, we recorded eight cases of suicide and two cases of murder. This is besides numerous minor cases. One-third of the cases in the magistrate court in Mbala are from Senga Hill. It is, therefore, obvious that a strong police presence is needed in Senga Hill.

Mr Speaker, finally, I want to put it in on record that the people of Zambia are tired of changes and that we are not making any progress. Even before the PF can settle in office, some people are already calling for its removal. We will not get anywhere by doing that. People must give the present political party in power enough space to work.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, changes in politics do not provide a yardstick against which progress can be measured, but stability does. For example, in Africa, countries such as Botswana, Tanzania, Ethiopia, Kenya and Namibia have come up with a formula of stability. They ensure continuity and progress. I believe that this time around, the Zambians will not listen to this talk of change.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Sir, we had President Mwanawasa, SC., President Banda and President Sata and none of them had the opportunity to stabilise the country. President Mwanawasa almost did it, but President Banda and President Sata did not have the opportunity to develop the country. It is, therefore, important that the people Zambia accord His Excellency the President, Mr Lungu, enough time to stabilise the country ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: ... and start making progress.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, this affinity for perpetual need for change will not develop the country. The proponents of change always do not want a President to concentrate on development. They want him to always be engaged in street politics and this deprives the entire country the President’s attention. I hope that, for once, the people will not listen to these politics so that His Excellency the President, Mr Lungu, does his work.

Mr Speaker, thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mulasikwanda (Mulobezi): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I wish to express my sincere thanks to you for according me this opportunity to deliver my maiden speech in this august House. Sir, let me thank my God Jehovah whose great mercies have seen me through from my adoption in 2013 to 2015, when the elections were finally held.

Mr Speaker, allow me also to thank His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, and the Patriotic Front (PF) leadership for having adopted me to stand in Mulobezi Constituency, as a candidate of our beloved party, the PF.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, I would also like to thank the late President, His Excellency Mr Michael Chilufya Sata, for tutoring me in politics when I served as the only female Ward Youth Chairperson in Chayinda, Lusaka Urban. He was the Governor of Lusaka then. May His Soul Rest in Peace.

Mr Speaker, further, I would like to extend my thanks to Her Honour ...


Mr Speaker: Order! Just give me a minute to restore order. Can we have some order. Those of you who are not able to exercise self-discipline, I will soon begin ...


Mr Speaker: ... inviting you out of the House. Your voices are very audible and I can see you very clearly. Take this as a timely reminder to be orderly.

 Continue, hon. Member.

Mrs Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, further, I would like to extend my thanks to Her Honour the Vice-President, Mrs Inonge Wina, Member of Parliament for Nalolo for the continuous support she has rendered to me from 2013 up to now, when the battle has been won.

Mr Speaker, I will be failing in my duties if I do not thank my campaign managers, Hon. Jean Kapata, MP, and Hon. Josephine Limata, MP, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Mulasikwanda: ... and their teams for delivering this victory which has brought me back to this House. As you are aware, Mr Speaker, I was once in this House as a nominated hon. Member of Parliament from 2006 to 2008, but now I am here as an elected hon. Member. To you all, I say thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, I wish to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the people of Mulobezi for electing and making me the first female hon. Member of Parliament for Mulobezi Constituency since Independence, a victory that has not only brought change in representation, but has also increased the number of women hon. Members of Parliament in the House.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: This has shown that the PF Government is committed to promoting women representation in decision-making positions in both the public and private sectors, like we have seen that for the very first time in the history of Zambia, a female Vice-President has been appointed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: The credit goes to His Excellency, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, for his visionary leadership ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Mulasikwanda: ... in gender equity.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure the people of Mulobezi that I will not let them down. I will diligently serve them all, including those who did not vote for me. This will be in order for us to forge ahead in facilitating the much-needed development which has lagged behind for the past forty-seven years since Independence, until three and half years ago when the PF formed the Government.

Sir, I would also like to remind the electorate of Mulobezi that the elections are over. Now is the time for us to join hands together, under the leadership of the PF and His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, to deliver development to our area. Already, the people of Mulobezi have witnessed unprecedented developmental projects which the PF Government  ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Mulasikwanda: ... has embarked upon in the constituency.

Mr Livune: Question!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Sir, these projects include the revamping of the railway line, the construction of a platform at Mulobezi Train Station, the introduction of the refurbished train, the construction of a new hospital in Sichili, the construction of a new mortuary at Sichili Mission Hospital, the construction of ten new district council houses which have since been completed, the construction of a new block of offices for the Fisheries Department, the construction of a water tank whose work needs to be accelerated as the constructor abandoned the project, this I will follow up, the construction of Mulobezi Secondary School, the connection of Mulobezi District to the national electricity grid, the construction of Sichili/Nawinda Road, whse third phase awaits  funding ...

Mr Livune: Sililo.

Ms Mulasikwanda: ... for it to be completed, the construction of three ...

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Katombola, can you leave the Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Praise God!

Mr Livune left the Assembly Chamber.

Mr Speaker: Continue hon. Member.

Ms Mulasikwanda: ... and primary schools which are also at slab level, just to mention a few.

Mr Speaker, the measures that the Government has undertaken in making Mulobezi a new district cannot go without mention. I, however, wish to note that there is a need for a tarred road to foster this development. I am aware that Simungoma/Mulobezi/Luampa Road is linked to the 8,000 km Link Zambia Road Project in the second phase. However, the works on this road need to be accelerated to bring about sufficient development for the new Mulobezi District.

Sir, as a new district, we face challenges, one of which being the lack of water throughout the district. I wish, on behalf of the people of Mulobezi, to implore the Government to help us sink a lot of boreholes that will help alleviate the challenge of water supply.

Mr Speaker, the lack of the Zambia Information and Communications Technology Authority (ZICTA) communication towers is another challenge in Mulobezi. I implore our Government, under the able leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, to ensure that there is efficient mobile communication of the district with the rest of the country. Similarly, I call upon our Government to look into easing access to building materials so as to promote the building of quality houses by as many people and thereby, enhance development in the district.

Sir, my speech would be incomplete if I failed to comment on the violence that erupted in Mulobezi during the campaign trail. I wish to condemn, in the strongest possible terms, the violence that characterised the by-elections that recently took place in Mulobezi. I wish to implore all the political parties to desist from perpetrating violence during elections. Any form of violence, be it the Mapatizya formula, ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Ms Mulasikwanda: ... verbal insults, abusive language, the use of machetes, slashes or guns to intimidate voters or opponents must be stopped at all costs in this country.

Mr Mwila: Tell them

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, as a woman and mother, it was so disturbing and devastating to see such kind of violence being perpetuated among a very peaceful people who have known no violence except at the time of the Lui versus the Kololo in Barotseland many centuries ago.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Sir, because of the unacceptable violence we witnessed in Mulobezi, I wish to support the sentiments by many of my colleagues in the community that such political parties must be disqualified ...

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: ... or deregistered.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Such violence must be investigated because it involves the use of weapons such as tear gas and guns that are only supposed to be used by State police.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Ms Mulasikwanda: From where do people get such kind of weapons? Let the law take its course ...

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Ms Mulasikwanda: ... so that Zambia can continue to enjoy the peace it has had for fifty years.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Speaker, this notwithstanding, and as I conclude, I wish to submit that Mulobezi is richly endowed with national resources such as timber. If well-managed and channelled in the right hands, this timber can create employment opportunities for the youth and bring about sustainable development for the constituency and the country as a whole.

Sir, lastly, I wish to pledge to the people of Mulobezi, the President of our party, the PF, and the entire leadership that I shall co-operate and work hard to bring the much-needed development in Mulobezi Constituency.

Mr Speaker, Zambia is a Christian nation, so we need to show that love and unity as Zambians. Zambia is our only home and there is no sweeter place than home. Long live Zambia, long live the PF ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Mulasikwanda: ... and long live our beloved President.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: We go back to our Motion. The hon. Member for Ikeleng’i.

Mr Muchima (Ikeleng’i): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the mover and the seconder of the Report of the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee. I also wish to thank you for allowing this Committee to carry out its tours. It is a wonderful report.

Sir, Parliament does not live in isolation. Times are changing. We used to have typewriters, but today, we have computers. It is from this background that I wish to refer to Page 44 of your report on the issue of conditions of service.

The conditions of service are critical, therefore, we should not shy away from talking about them. I am happy that your report is referring to Parliaments in other countries, notably Kenya.

 Sir, the job of the hon. Member of Parliament is so involving and so touching. It is an office that is very close to the hearts of the people. The hon. Member of Parliament does not sleep if his/her people are suffering.

Mr Speaker, to some of us who have worked in the Government and parastatals, it is common knowledge that when a person enters into a contract, conditions of service are supposed to be tabulated and known. However, in Zambia, that is not the case because hon. Members of Parliament do not know their conditions of service.

Mr Speaker, I wish the Committee had gone further to also look at the dwelling space for their hon. Members of Parliament. In as far as hierarchy is concerned, the position of Member of Parliament is quite noble and it demands certain respect. It is through hon. Members of Parliament that hon. Ministers and the Hon. Mr Speaker are drawn and the whole society looks upon these offices, and yet this is a different case in Zambia. It is not known when where an hon. Member of Parliament belongs.

Sir, in certain circumstances, you find that the position of District Commission (DC) is viewed a higher position than that of an hon. Member of Parliament. A Member of Parliament is a law-maker and he/she represents the people and he/she is elected by the people, but when he/she is put in a public position, his/her position is not clearly defined.

 Mr Speaker, it is very critical for us to scruitinise and compare ourselves to other countries and place the hon. Member of Parliament where he/she belongs. His/her contract should be known from the day one comes to this House. Contracts should define the length of stay in Parliament and what follows at the death of an hon. Member. Such issues should not be left in suspense because this is a contractual obligation between the people of Zambia and the National Assembly of Zambia. It is, therefore, true that these reforms should take the things that I have talked about into consideration.

Sir, let me now talk about radio and television. We should congratulate the National Assembly of Zambia for coming up with Parliament Radio because this service has been appreciated and is by many Zambians because it promotes democracy. Those of us and some other people who are able to get Parliament Radio in their constituencies are happy with the service that Parliament Radio is rendering in our constituencies. It draws the attention of people and provides a platform for them to compare what is going in their constituencies with what is going on in other constituencies and also gives them an opportunity to know what is going on in Parliament. It is for this reason that it s important that the coverage of Parliament Radio be extended to far-flung areas, television inclusive, because this will enable the people to know what their representatives are doing in Parliament

Mr Speaker, places like Ikeleng’i normally listen to Angolan Radio and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) radio, and yet we are unable to get our own signals in Zambia. If Parliament Radio could reach our rural constituencies, it would accord our people an opportunity to be in line with whatever is taking place in Parliament, more especially the television broadcasts of Her Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time which are aired on Friday because this attracts the attention of many people. This is a very good idea and it should continue.

Sir, when the Public Accounts Committee is sitting, one wonders whether transparency is considered under the coverage of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC), which is a public media. I do not know why there should be restrictions because the committee is meant to tell the public how its money is used ...

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]



Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, before we resume our Business, I have an announcement to make.

I wish to inform members of the Zambian Parliamentary Conservation Caucus (ZPCC) that the meeting which was scheduled to be held tomorrow, Wednesday, 15th July, 2015, at the Media Centre has been postponed. This is due to the fact that there is another meeting that is scheduled to be held tomorrow in the auditorium. A rescheduled date will, therefore, be communicated in due course.

Thank you.


Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was talking about conditions of service for hon. Members of Parliament. I will leave that for later, but for now, I want to talk about the Public Accounts Committee (PAC). PAC provides oversight on behalf of the people of Zambia, who are supposed to know how their money is appropriated. Surprisingly, when there was that initiative to broadcast, live, the PAC deliberations on the ZNBC, this was stopped forthwith. My question is: What are we hiding?

Sir, we are here on behalf of the public. There should be nothing hidden. Instead of providing media coverage on certain issues in a biased manner, the ZNBC should be based here and cover the proceedings of the PAC when it is sitting. The people of Zambia should know how their money is being spent. So, we need that coverage as it promotes transparency. The people of Zambia are entitled to know how their taxes are being used.

Mr Speaker, Parliament is a very noble institution. As an arm of the Government, ...


Mr Speaker: Order, on the right!

You may continue hon. Member.

Mr Muchima: Sir, how are your hon. Members motivated? How do you look after your hon. Members? If you go to the international airport, you will see how an hon. Member of Parliament who used to sit comfortably before getting on a plane is now being segregated. Before you know it, he will be queuing from outside. People who are junior to him, like Permanent Secretaries, are accorded high respect and even their seats are different, and yet before you become An hon. Minister, you are an hon. Member of Parliament. We are colleagues, but when we go in the public arena, an ordinary Member of Parliament, who may have been a minister at one time, is ridiculed and his status is reduced. This is unacceptable. We should maintain those standards. If we respect the institution of Parliament, then, its product should be respected together with those who belong there.

Sir, the performance of an Member of Parliament is expected to be above average. If you are a soldier, you cannot go to war hungry. You need to motivate your people so that their performance can be above average. I come from Ikeleng’i, formerly Mwinilunga West Parliamentary Constituency, which is close to 1,000km from Lusaka. When you get a motor vehicle, the public thinks it is free. The truth is that I pay for that vehicle, and it covers huge distances. When you go to Ikeleng’i, you have to cover some more kilometres further in the bush because Ikeleng’i is not located at the centre of the province. To make matters worse, the roads are gravel and so within two years of driving on such roads, the vehicle is a total wreck. At whose expense do we do all this noble work? Why should the job be different from the jobs being performed by other people in other Government wings? We are doing the Government’s work by serving the people.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament have to drive themselves because they cannot afford a driver. When you tour your constituency, you have to look for a cheap, but safe place to stay because you have no protection. You have to buy fuel using your own money because the fuel allowance that you get ends up at the Boma, and yet you are expected to be in the constituency every weekend. The people in your constituency want to see you and talk to you. An Member of Parliament is a conduit between the Government and the people. When an hon. Member of Parliament arrives in his constituency, the people think the Bank of Zambia has shifted with him or her. The people expect you to help them solve all their problems, which include footing funeral expenses and settling school fees. If you do not, then, you will become very unpopular. Unfortunately, that is our culture, but when you talk about remuneration for hon. Members of Parliament, then, you are provoking society.

Sir, I want to give an example of one friend of mine who used to be very vocal when he was a member of the civil society. However, when he became an hon. Member of Parliament, he could not believe, ...

Hon. Government Member: Mucheleka.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Muchima: ... what he was seeing. You need to motivate your Members, Sir. We need to compare what is happening in countries like South Africa and Tanzania with our what is happening in our country. That way, members of the public will be served better. Some people can only visit their constituencies once in a while because they fear these difficulties which I have talked about. Members of Parliament have a duty to perform, more so, those who live within Lusaka. That is because every day, there is a knock on their door. That demands that there should be equal remuneration to take care of these unfortunate people. It is not their problem that poverty levels are high and that the country’s economy is declining. The kwacha, which used to trade at K4,700 against the United States Dollar has now depreciated. This means that all the prices of commodities will be affected, and yet a Member of Parliament is expected to perform miracles.

Mr Speaker, we should reform into a modern society. What does that entail? We were colonised by Britain, and so, we should know how the British Government takes care of its Members of Parliament. We should also know how the United States of America takes care of its Members of Parliament. We should be advancing towards that, and not look at the Government that was there in 1964. Things have changed and so, we should aim at attaining a modern Parliament. We should be admiring what is going on in other parts of the world. I would want a situation where the Hon. Mr Speaker sends me to bring him a book. That would show that despite him holding a Doctor of Philosophy (PhD), he still wants to acquire knowledge. So, likewise, we Parliamentarians should always strive to improve.

 Further, Sir, we should not shy away from public criticism. It is like watching a football match and as a spectator, you keep saying sembe, which means I wish. When you are the one playing, you will realise that scoring goals is not that easy. Let us make our people’s lives better, but for Members of Parliament to be able to articulate issues well, they should also be looked after well. We should not be in a society where we do not even know our conditions of service. Look at Parliament Motel. That motel was built during the rule of former President Kaunda. It has remained like a rest house, and yet it is supposed to be a five star hotel for a law-maker. Look at the wood that is at the motel reception. I do not even know where it came from. If you brought someone from Kenya to Parliament Motel, they would be greeted by mosquitoes are at the reception area. There are many mosquitoes there. When we travel, we lodge at hotels, which are better, but when we come here, that place where we keep very important people is something else. The hon. Minister of Justice, who is a friend of mine, is even proud when he goes there, ...

Mr Speaker: Do not debate the hon. Minister.


Mr Muchima: Mr Speaker, I am saying let us improve our welfare. We can begin by cleaning where we stay. A Lunda man was called Nyamazai because he did not want to stay in a dirty environment. Being Lunda by tribe, I do not want to see dirt around. The state of that motel should be improved. I am happy that there is a commission to be put in place. This commission should review and set standards for a person who is called honourable. You cannot be called honourable when you sleep in a rest house. No way.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muchima: We spend a lot of money campaigning to be elected and a lot of time is required for an hon. Member of Parliament to look after his/her constituency. If it is not cheap to get elected, why should the welfare of an hon. Member of Parliament be cheap?  So, this matter has to be looked into.

Mr Speaker, this report should have addressed how a modern hon. Member of Parliament should be looked after. You need to take good care of us so that we are motivated to carry out our duties as hon. Members of Parliament. Even when you are gone, you will leave a clear legacy of having created a model parliament.

Sir, people from other parts of the world admire our democracy, but the standard of living for our hon. Members of Parliament is nothing to write home about. Let us review and make everything very clear. We need to show where we belong in society.  There are professors and doctors here, but they have been reduced to a certain level since they came into this House. That should not be the case and we need to move away from this. We need to be accorded the appropriate respect by society, just like chiefs. You could be an ordinary member of society, but the moment you become a chief, there is that respect that is accorded to you.

Mr Speaker, this is a good report. It should be taken seriously, by both hon. Members of Parliament and the public out there. It is not wasteful to spend money on hon. Members of Parliament because it enhances their ability to serve the people they represent better. A hungry person cannot carry firewood, water or, indeed, do anything productive. A soldier needs to be full to be able to fight.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I support this report and thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Sir, this report is not controversial at all. Therefore, I will limit my comments to only those things that I think are useful, not only for ourselves as current hon. Members of Parliament, but also for those who are coming after we have left.

Sir, allow me to begin by giving you my heartfelt congratulations for breaking a certain tradition, which is in line with reforms and modernisation. I was not there, but I am told that you attended a funeral of one of our departed colleagues. Allow me to just spend twenty seconds on this matter. I want to say that it was one of those positive things that a person holding an office such as yours should do. I hope we can, then, formalise it so that it does not become strange for the Hon. Speaker to attend a funeral, especially of a workmate or, indeed, any other funeral. I think that it was a good thing that you availed yourself so that the office of the Speaker is demystified. I take my hat off to that.

Sir, the report mentions the roles of hon. Members of Parliament on Page 6 in a very definitive way. It states that these roles are representation, oversight, legislation as well as budget approval. The Committee has done a wonderful job in reemphasising this point in order to buttress what other colleagues have said about how stretched hon. Members of Parliament become the moment they assume office. We are viewed or deemed as the people who can perform miracles about anything and that our term’s entire life sphere revolves around ourselves. Instead of service givers, we are seen as benefactors. A benefactor means someone who is very kind and gives help to the needy or is like a charitable organisation. This has been the unfortunate perception.

Mr Speaker, the report points out the reason for such a situation. It has to do with the way we undertake our political quests or ambitions to come and be representatives. The report clearly says that once an hon. Member is elected, he/she relinquishes the role of being a partisan representative and should take into account and attend to people who did not even vote for him/her. This report says that very loudly and clearly.

Sir, this brings me down to the manner in which we have abused ourselves. It should be noted that this report allows me to debate within the confines of my peripheries. When we go to the electorate to seek a mandate, we make lofty statements. We promise things that we cannot even achieve on an ordinary day. On the other hand, those on your right hand side are in the habit of making the terrible statement that if the people do not vote for a candidate who belongs to a certain party, development will not come to the area. We have heard this even from the mouths of Heads of State. At this juncture, I am not confining it to the current Head of State. I am rather broadening it to time immemorial. This is a tradition that we need to break forthwith so that when the President stands on a podium to seek a mandate for a preferred candidate, he/she must be disallowed to say things such as that because they actually wash away the very foundation and fabric of our democracy.

Mr Speaker, we recently had a by-election and it was common to hear people from the right side of your chair saying that if the people in that constituency voted for a candidate from the Opposition, the constituency would not be developed. If it was not unparliamentary to say so, that behaviour could only be described as ...

Mr Speaker: Just use parliamentary language.


Mr Nkombo: It could be described in a manner that befits it.

Sir, democracy is expensive. I actually admire the manner in which the Committee cuts a particular intervention in the report. It states that once an hon. Member is elected, he/she becomes an hon. Member for all. The Committee explained very clearly in this report that it has never been in the ambit of an hon. Member of Parliament to build a road or school. It has said that it is the job of a sitting Government to do that. Without belabouring the point of saying things that ought not to be said, I think this should be stopped.

Sir, I also want to make a few comments on other issues that are in this report. Over the last two years, this Committee, in its reports, has spoken about the subject of a paperless parliament. You will agree with me that in 2015, we ought to have moved on this matter. I have been to several parliaments on and off this continent. I have seen it for myself that our colleagues have started migrating and some have already achieved the status of a paperless parliament. I think that it is only incumbent that we start moving away from bulk paper supply to work as a paperless parliament in this techno age.
Sir, the Action-taken Report on this Committee’s previous report addresses the issue of access into this Parliament by the people that we represent. I have said before, maybe, two or three years ago, that as a matter of urgency, we need to find an architect to design an access ramp into this Chamber. The current set up is prohibitive to people who have physical disabilities. We have a duty or responsibility to do this. When I look around, I see that it is not by accident that we do not have even a single hon. Member with challenging, and I want to qualify that, physical disabilities.

I think an ordinary Parliament is required to deal with the issues of a ramp for easy access because, as you know, we are now living in this era of the dark days. There will be a day when electricity will not be there, like has been the case ever since load shedding started. So, there will be a day when lifts will not work. The people who are physically challenged will not be able to access the House.

Mr Speaker, without belabouring the point, let me move on to the issue of the dress code. Access into this Chamber is restricted, and yet we know that we do not have the capacity to buy the prescribed garments for the people who want to come and see how we represent them here. Just at tea break, I listened to Parliament Radio where an advertisement was running stating that members of the public are free to come here as long as they write to the Clerk of the National Assembly and it went on state as long as you do this and that. Further, it emphasised that the dress code should be formal like this, like that. If I want to bring my grandmother here and she says I voted for you and I want to see where you go to represent us, it means I must buy her shoes because this Parliament will not allow in people who have no shoes.

Sir, in this country, we have people who do not own shoes.

Mr Mwila: Bufi ubo!

Mr Speaker: Aah!

Mr Nkombo: We are …

Sir, do not worry about it.

Mr Speaker: No, no, no. That is my job.


Mr Speaker: Let us avoid those running commentaries, please.

Your may continue, hon. Member for Mazabuka Central.

Mr Nkombo: It may be true that in certain areas everyone has shoes, but certainly where I come from, among the people who voted for me, there are those who do not have a basic pair of shoes.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: So, I think we need to be innovative by relaxing the conditions of people accessing this Chamber.

Mr Speaker, coming back home to ourselves, very briefly, I want to say that, I take the argument of Hon. Muchima as my own, regarding conditions of service and health matters. Many times we have said that we need health insurance as Members of Parliament. It is happening everywhere in the world. This is one institution that does not have a health insurance plan for it hon. Members of Parliament. Every time one among us falls ill, it is like trial and error is faster than reading the manual. Due to that, we have either strained Government coffers because preferred patients can be taken somewhere for treatment or others who may not be so preferred will be relegated to die at the University Teaching Hospital. I think that the issue of health insurance is something to be looked at critically.

In addition, Sir, a physically fit human being, like the body of the hon. Minister of Justice who I meet from time to time in the gym, is a deterrent to opportunitistic infections. I think that we have talked about this before. I have personally talked about the institution considering meeting Members of Parliament at a certain point to make them affiliated to physical health clubs where they can go to train and be physically fit and keep away small things like influenza which can culminate into bigger complications in case your immunity is compromised. It is true that this issue of immunity being compromised is not selective. It can hit anyone.

Finally, Sir, your report also left unattended the issue that is equivalent to the Judiciary’s valedictory service when an hon. Member of Parliament dies. I think that is an area that we need to conclude. We should agree whether it is necessary to move to or it is not, so that it stops appearing in this report. It has been there for three years now. We need to agree and it does not take long to agree. It does not take extra money to agree that hon. Members of Parliament should be given a befitting send off when they die. It has become frequent, now, to lose hon. Members through death. So, health insurance and the valedictory service are some of the things which we need to look at.

Sir, allow me to thank you again for giving me the opportunity to debate this report which is non controversial and I support it wholeheartedly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this rare opportunity to debate this very rare Motion. I think this is the only Motion which enables us to talk about ourselves, our conditions of service and how we can improve Parliament.

Sir, allow me to say that, in Zambia, we were in a hurry to move from a one-party State to a multi-party State without getting rid of the one-party State mentality. I want to emphasise the importance of the roles of the hon. Members of Parliament. I think we should realise that this is one institution which is very important because, under this House, the Executive and Legislatures are combined. Like my colleagues have said, it deserves respect.

Mr Speaker, our gallant brothers and sisters, who advocated for the advent of multi-partism, were very clear. A one-party State inherently has some short-cuts which makes work not to be very effective. Multi-partism entails checks and balances. Checks and balances do not mean when you have insulted your colleague when you remind him/her that a, b, c, d needs to be done. To think you have been insulted by a reminder is possessing a one-state mentality. That is why I implore not only the hon. Members of the Patriotic Front (PF), but all hon. Members of the House to desist from being arrogant once they are on the right side of the House. I was a Minister in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government and I do admit that there is a tendency to become arrogant when on that side of the House. That is a one-party mentality. It has to be done away with.

 Then, Sir, there are offshoots of a one-party State mentality. I am a Member of Parliament, elected by the people of Zambia, but I should go to the District Commissioner (DC) to tell him that I want to tour my Constituency. That is a one-party State mentality. In this era and age, we should not take ourselves backwards. What are we scared of? A Member of Parliament has to make himself or herself available to the people. Suppose when permission to tour a constituency is sought from a DC and he/she denies granting it, am I expected to agree to that? I will not.

Mr Muchima: They will take you to the police.

Mr Shakafuswa: What?

Police cannot even come to talk to me.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, do not engage them. You are addressing me.


Mr Shakafuswa: As a Member of Parliament, Sir, there is just no way that I will lower myself to the level of a police officer who should actually salute to me. Even the Inspector-General of Police is supposed to salute to me. Nowadays, the police have become more important than hon. Members of Parliament. We are the leaders. There is no way that a police officer can even utter a derogatory remark against an hon. Member of Parliament. A police officer, no.  This institution has to be given the respect which is due to it.

Mr Muchima: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: We should know that here in Parliament there is movement.

Mr Ndalamei: Uhmmm!

Mr Shakafuswa: Today, you are on the right hand side of the Hon. Mr Speaker, tomorrow you will be on the left hand side, but the country has to move on. There is no way I am going to stop engaging other hon. Members. As for me, if I want to engage people in the Government, I will do so because I know it is my role to engage people in the Government. There is no way you can shy away because we have taken you to task. When we are here, you will sweat. You are being driven in vehicles with flying flags and so, we must make you sweat for that comfort. We have the right to see to it that what you promised the people is actually done. It is the only way we can ensure the deliverance our people from poverty.

Mr Speaker, we are not asking for more or less. All we are saying is that, gentlemen, in the midst of plenty, why should our people be hungry? Why should our people live in abject poverty? Why with all our endowed natural resources should we end up borrowing money? Why can we not sit down and see where things are going wrong? This is our role as hon. Members of Parliament here.

Mr Speaker, it is important that we also move with the times. In my view, our Parliament is one of those that have stagnated for a long time. I do not want us to follow the South African example where the Opposition heckles and harasses Ministers and the President. Our etiquette cannot allow this. However, we would like this Parliament, with due respect, to not be a courtroom. By my saying that, I am not referring to anyone. It should be flexible. We should not go to an extent where debates are curtailed or restricted. We should open up.

Mr Speaker, I went to the Parliament of Uganda and was surprised to learn that they allow Members of Parliament to approach the Speaker whilst a Parliament is in session.


Mr Shakafuswa: I am not saying that we should introduce this. I am just trying to illustrate the levels to which the flexibility has reached. I know that we emulate the Westminster Parliament. However, even it has special Motions, such as when a Minister gives a ministerial statement, when the Opposition side does not conclude its debate first. Debate is an engagement where someone from the Opposition stands to debate and the hon. Minister responds to his/her debate. In this kind of engagement, issues are brought out.

Mr Speaker, our debate is such that the Opposition side concludes its debate first and when the Executive side responds, there is no challenge to its debate. It can even write-off the debate from the Opposition side.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, we should evolve to a point whereby whatever an hon. Minister says is challenged. This will improve our performance.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, some hon. Ministers get annoyed or go offshoot when asked questions is because they do not come prepared. I have been there before and I have seen it. I used to sit on the right. During the Ministerial Parliamentary Committee Session, an hon. Minister has to anticipate the kind of follow up questions that can arise from a particular question and prepare accordingly. However, you find that most hon. Ministers just go to their offices, pick up the proceeding of the day and come to the House unprepared. As such, they give empty-headed responses to the questions.

Mr Speaker, the quality of this House is reflected in the manner we conduct our business. The nation listens and, maybe, people do not even respect us much because of the quality of responses and interaction which goes in this House. So, in my view, we have to improve on our interaction.

Mr Speaker, as the report has said, once the President wins a general election or a by-election, he ceases to be a party member. He becomes a national asset.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: There is no way a President can associate himself with a party after he wins an election because even those who did not vote for him become his people. Even within his party, those who did not support him because they had other preferred candidates also become his people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, as President, you are the father of the nation. As my colleague said, the President possesses a one-party mentality. I am not referring to any President, but this is what I have heard. The President says that if you do not vote for this party and enhance multi-partism, you will not see development.

Hon. Opposition Member: Wako ni wako.

Mr Shakafuswa: No, there is no wako ni wako. This is backwardness.

Mr Speaker: What do you mean by that?

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, someone was saying wako ni wako.

Mr Speaker: This is the problem. Address me.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, it means yours is yours.


Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, as hon. Members of Parliament, let us prepare ourselves politically so that we become relevant to this modern era. I wish people like Hon. Mwaliteta could also come up and debate. I have never heard him debate. You are lucky you are a hon. Deputy Minister.


Mr Shakafuswa: We should …
Mr Speaker: Order!

I think that as much as you have this unusual liberty to debate ourselves, let us avoid singling out individuals out of fairness because I will not give him a chance to reply to what you are saying and this is what you are urging.

You may continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: With his running commentaries, I will not be able to comment. So, he should not hide in running commentaries. Hon. Mwaliteta, you can also debate this Motion.

Mr Mwaliteta: No, I did not comment.


Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, ...

Mr Shakafuswa: I beg your pardon, Hon. Mwaliteta. I apologise.

Sir, we need to strengthen the role of hon. Members of Parliament because their presence in a constituency is the Government’s presence. Political parties are now saying that they will not adopt hon. Members of Parliament that do not perform for the next election. Do political parties pay the hon. Members of Parliament to buy fuel or give them allowances to visit their constituencies? Do the parties give the hon. Members of Parliament money to build schools? In fact, hon. Members of Parliament talk on behalf of the members of the Executive about bridges or schools that have not been worked on.

Mr Speaker, the fear even for the sitting Government is where you have hon. Members who are part of the Executive bragging about their villages having electricity and the once impassable roads having been worked on. We should refrain from this in this House. The role of the Government is to get the meagre resources from whichever source.

Mr Speaker, this is why I used to see the anger in the late Hon. Humphrey Mwanza as he would talk about how the areas that are being developed do not have any resources that contribute to the National Treasury, and yet their hon. Members are the ones who are bragging about development. He would say the resources which were developing other constituencies were coming from his area. Why should I not have a road in my area only for you whose area does not contribute anything to the coffers of this country to come and say there is electricity in your villages? The people are now asking us why their raw materials are being taken away only for electricity to put in other areas. This is bringing division in the country.

Mr Speaker, it is just unfortunate because you guide us with a prayer. I wish that people would learn to listen to the message in this prayer. I know that most of you do not even congregate and do not even know what Christianity is.


Mr Shakafuswa: Some of you just go to cleanse your sins in church. The prayer which the Hon. Mr Speaker starts the proceedings of this House with is a very powerful prayer. It shows that God has placed responsibility in this Parliament assembled to rule over the people who have sent us here.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: The Speaker is asking that whatever we do should be in so just a manner, but do we do this when we say that we will not take development to the people who are really desperate and poverty stricken? No, gentlemen. If we want to gain respect from the people of Zambia and anywhere else, let us know that our role is to uplift the country. We will not use national resources to improve our standing as political parties. We owe it to this country to uplift it.

Mr Speaker, even your left side is not left out in the plea of uplifting this country. It is not just the Government to be responsible. We should also realise that our role is very important. Even if these people in the Government want to portray a picture that we are enemies, we are not. If you were not there, the cry of those who brought about multi-partism was unity in diversity. You can have the Ruling Party and the Opposition, but there should be some sense of unity because we are all Zambians at the end of it all. We might have particular regions favouring a particular party, but that is as a result of multi-partism.

When you go to the United States of America (USA), you will find that the Democrats have a stronghold in certain areas and the Republicans also have their strongholds. That is democracy.  I would urge that we move with the times. We should not be very rigid. Like some people have said before, why should we always emulate what white people do? Why should you come to this House, Mr Speaker, sweating in that gown of yours? It is high time we put away this colonial mentality whereby a white person’s hair should be represented here. Other parliaments have moved away from that. Their presiding officers do not wear white people’s hair.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: So, even in this Parliament, let us move on.  

Mr Speaker, one time, I noticed that one hon. Member of Parliament was castigated, if that is the right word, for coming with an iPad here and getting a photo with it. Other parliaments have moved on. They allow hon. Members to enter the House with iPads. They do not give the Order Paper in paper form. They post it on the web. If something comes up on the Floor, an hon. Member is able to carry out research online on an iPad or a laptop so that the quality of debate is improved. However, coming with electronics in the House is an offence. No, it should not be an offence in this era. The iPad should be equipment which is a must-have for the hon. Members of Parliament. I remember that one hon. Member who was campaigning to be elected to the position of Speaker promised each hon. Member a laptop in the event that he got elected. After we elected him, the laptops never came. They have to come.


Mr Shakafuswa: They just have to come.

Hon. Members of Parliament, let us not be scared to come here and say that we need …

Mr Speaker: Order!

You still have to address me. I am here.

You may continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I think that your hon. Members of Parliament do more work than hon. Ministers and hon. Deputy Ministers.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, why should hon. Ministers be given two, three or four cars to use for official business, when hon. Members of Parliament cannot use the Government facilities? Why should I borrow money to get a vehicle to use in my constituency, when I am doing Government work? Why should I borrow money?

Hon. Members: Why!

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, our friends go home with an extra car which they are supposed to buy. When an hon. Member of Parliament is not re-elected, he goes with a wreck of a vehicle to his constituency. I think we need to find money to stop that. We have done enough service for the nation and the nation has to appreciate. We are not going to be scared of these tuma little newspapers …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Just continue using the official language.

You may continue.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, let us not be scared of these self-made prophets of doom who run newspapers and think that our role is substandard to their roles. It is them who are substandard. We have seen them be inconsistent in their thoughts.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: They have personalised their newspapers. When they talk of leadership, they talk about us with scorn. No, we are hon. Members. We are very honourable and above them. If we also put their conduct in public, you would find that their conduct is questionable and not African. We do not want to be conned and be scared of little boys …


Mr Shakafuswa: … who portray themselves as messiahs of democracy, and who want to impose their will on earth as it is in heaven. No, we will not allow that.


Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, we, as hon. Members of Parliament, should get things that will make us more effective in our work.  All that these people who have hatred for the people who serve do is write stories so that they make money. We talk here so that we develop the country.

Hon. Members: Yes!

Mr Shakafuswa: However, they are very divisive, extremely divisive. We talk so that money is equitably shared in this nation and so that hon. Members like my wife, Hon. Jean Kapata, can listen and improve herself.


Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much.

Mr Speaker, it is a bit unique that we can only debate ourselves when we debate your Report on the Parliamentary Reforms and Modernisation Committee.  I looked through your report and noticed that we are a bit slow in building offices for the hon. Members of Parliament in their constituencies. Only fifty constituency offices have been built, out of the 150 constituencies. By now, we were supposed to have completed building all the constituency offices for the hon. Members of Parliament. Some of us started building these constituency offices on our own in 2001, before there was formal or official acceptance to have offices for hon. Members of Parliament. I remember that my office was used as an example for others to emulate. My office building has an office for the hon. Member of Parliament, the Professional Assistant, the Administrative Secretary as well as a library.  However, the offices that you have built do not have those facilities. They have no libraries. My office in Kalomo has a library.

Mr Speaker, we are forgetting that we do not fund these constituency offices properly. The constituency offices are not funded. A number of these hon. Members of Parliament, on both sides, are scared to go to those constituency offices. The people expect too much from those constituency offices. There are offices where you cannot even have tea.

Mr Nkombo:  Not even water.

Mr Muntanga: Yes, not even water. When the constituents come to visit you, there is no way you can have tea provided by the office. You are expected to pay for the tea from your pocket, as an hon. Member of Parliament. By building constituency offices in some areas, we have raised the expectations of the people. People believe that you have all the answers when you are in that office. There is very minimal funding going to those offices. I have looked at what is given to the Professional Assistant and the Administrative Assistant. It is very little. We have to do something to make these constituency offices attractive to hon. Members of Parliament. If you care to look at the reports from your administrative officers, Mr Speaker, how many hon. Members of Parliament report to those constituency offices? You will find that very few of them do. They will be in the constituency, but will hardly report to the constituency offices because if they report there, they will be expected to provide assistance to the community. An hon. Member of Parliament is supposed to provide everything from funeral to wedding expenses.  You have to pay lobola when someone’s child is marrying.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Just give a translation for that word.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, they want you to pay dowry for someone’s child to marry.  When someone wants to marry, the father will come to you and say, “My son is marrying and I am short of money, hon. Member of Parliament.” When someone leaves their child at home and this child sets the house on fire, early the next morning, they will come and say, “Hon. Member of Parliament, my house is burnt down.” When you ask them what they want you to, they say, “I lost blankets and everything. So, I have come to you, hon. Member of Parliament, for assistance.” The expectations of an hon. Member from the public are so high.

Mr Speaker, the public likes to talk about the salaries of hon. Members of Parliament. I have told people how much I get. I do not hide. Your programme here has been set in a way that we sit in the afternoon, on Tuesday, Wednesday, and Thursday and, in the morning, on Friday. It is expected that when hon. Members have money, they will go back to their constituencies on Friday, in the afternoon, and come back later. However, the distances to constituencies …

Hon. Member: Chipata.

Mr Muntanga: No, Chipata is near. The distances to be covered to get to constituencies like Mwinilunga and Kalabo are long. The price of fuel has gone up. Even the few hon. Members of Parliament who used to go back to their constituencies will, now, not go. The price of fuel per litre is now expensive. That allowance you give us for the whole month can only be used for a single trip to and from Kalabo.

How does one survive? An hon. Member of Parliament who does survive is one who deeps into his or her private business. This is why an hon. Member of Parliament who has been of servitude to the people is lucky to drive long after he or she has ceased to be an hon. Member of Parliament.  A lot of former Members of Parliament are walking and dying early.  


Mr Muntanga: Those of us who survive do not do so because of the salaries people talk about. We survive because of other businesses we do on the side.

Mr Nkombo: Ng’ombe.

Mr Muntanga: When you talk about cattle, yes, I have cattle.  

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member, continue addressing me.

Mr Muntanga: Yes, Hon. Speaker, I have got cattle.


Mr Muntanga: I have to support the people in my constituency and their expectations are high.   

We are saying that hon. Members of Parliament should be considered. I wonder why some people attack hon. Members of Parliament. I have heard people say that hon. Members of Parliament cannot do this or that, and that they are the ones doing certain things. The people who say such things have never been elected to this august House. By chance, they form a non-governmental organisation (NGO), write up some bankable document asking for money and telling donors that they want to serve the people.  Meanwhile, as hon. Members of Parliament, we do not even ask them how much they have received or what they have done with the money.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: If this declaration they are pushing on Members of Parliament was done to some people out there, they would not survive. Some people have made it a policy to form NGOs and talk big. Sir, the modernisation and reforms we are talking about should go with the perks to the hon. Members of Parliament.

As I talk about salaries today, tomorrow it will be big news. People will say Hon. Muntanga was talking about salaries and wants more money. Meanwhile, they have not even bothered to find out what I am getting. When some of these people hear of a funeral, they do not even chip in to help, but will approach the Member of Parliament for help.

Mr Speaker, the trouble we go through is of a great magnitude. I am talking about meeting the costs of funerals and weddings and sponsoring the education of the children in our constituencies.

Mr Shakafuswa: Building schools!

Mr Muntanga: When you tell the constituents to apply for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for projects, they respond by telling you that the letter they have written to you is for a personal donation, as an hon. Member of Parliament.


Mr Muntanga: But, where do I get the money from?

If an hon. Member of Parliament is asked to be a guest of honour at a church function, they are not asking him or her to just be guest of honour. Eventually, he or she will be told that they are building a church and the building is missing a few doors.


Mr Muntanga: You are then expected to pay for these doors.  

The lack of respect for hon. Members of Parliament is too much. In Uganda, Members of Parliament are given security. They are actually guarded.

Mr Speaker, in this House we have talked about the wearing of wigs. This has been outlawed even Britain. I saw the Deputy Speaker, a lady, presiding without the wig. Those things get hot.


Mr Muntanga: The Hon. Mr Speaker gets hot.


Mr Muntanga: I know that there is air-conditioning in the House, but I want hon. Members to observe how many times he has to lift this Wig.


Mr Speaker: I did counsel earlier on the need to refrain from debating individuals.


Mr Muntanga: Apologies, Sir.

I am talking about the need to reform.

Mr Shakafuswa: The wig for Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: I am talking about the need to reform. We want the Hon. Mr Speaker to be comfortable so that when he is looking at us, he is free. When he over dresses, he gets worked up and will not appreciate what we are saying.


Mr Muntanga: Sir, even the relaxed safari suits, the dress code of the United National Independence Party (UNIP) era, are no more. Now, we have to be in double-breasted jackets and ties, even when it is hot. The only person who wears safari suits is the hon. Minister of Justice. We want you to simplify things.

Mr Speaker, we do appreciate the progress that has been made because, not long ago, we demanded that people coming to sit in the galleries be in suits and ties. Now we have relaxed a bit because people come in as long as they are smartly dressed. It is this direction we must take and make things easier. If we can, continue modernising. People will appreciate what we are doing. People want to come to Parliament, but they are scared. At the main gate, security literally strips people naked to check whether they are carrying something.

Mr Shakafuswa interjected.

Mr Muntanga: Yes, but we have been to other Parliaments and they have a way to check for certain things.

Mr Speaker, there are days when those Parliaments are open to the public. People pay money to visit those Parliaments. We can make our Parliament a tourist attraction. People would like to come here and take photos between these two animals in the centre of the Chamber. For them, it will be something interesting. Allow them to come here and take photos. Open up the place.

They can even come and sit on your Chair, Hon. Speaker.


Mr Muntanga:  People do that in other Parliaments.

Mr Sikazwe: Wedding photos?

Mr Speaker: Order! Not in that fashion, hon. Minister.

Mr Muntanga: Not weddings. I am not talking about weddings.

You see the problem, Mr Speaker.


Mr Speaker: Continue addressing me.

Mr Muntanga: If, for instance, we were on recess and I came to sit in your Chair, Sir, the messengers would be upon me in seconds, telling me to move out. I would be told it is blasphemous.


Mr Muntanga: When a person can sit in your Chair, people will be more relaxed. We must relax the rules and be sincere. Fund constituency offices properly and hon. Members will go there.

Mr Speaker, with regard to vehicles, the only ones who are getting more than two vehicles are hon. Ministers and all the vehicles are referred to as personal-to-holder. I do not how many vehicles there are because I have lost track. Most of them have no Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) number plates. Some vehicles which were bought by hon. Ministers are brand new. They are straight from the showroom and still have plastics on them. I am talking about those Members of Parliament who became hon. Ministers without being Back Benchers first. This is not good.

I have noticed that if someone becomes a Minister without experiencing the Opposition, they have problems understanding the real parliamentary work.  They do not understand the work of Sessional Committees.  All we are saying is that all of us must experience this. Those that were Members of your Committees from the Back Bench appreciate being there. They know what it means when someone tells them that they want something done. They also know what it means when they are told that a particular project is required in an area. Someone from the outside who has just been nominated is still hazy and thinks it strange.

Sir, what we are saying is true. Even when it comes to arguing out the conditions of service for hon. Members of Parliament, only Opposition Members of Parliament know what it really is.

Sir, I want all of us here, as Members of Parliament, including Presiding Officers, to appreciate the need for flexibility in this house. We should not sit here and make this place worse than a classroom. We are elderly people and if I sit idle because I have been told not to talk, I will start dozing.


Mr Muntanga: You do not do that.

The Indian Parliament makes noise.  


Mr Muntanga: They exchange words. This is one place where one is not marked for being present. We come here by quorum. This means that as long as the quorum is formed, one can go out and come back later.

Mr Speaker, sometimes, we may be talking amongst ourselves, but do not be cheated that we are not listening. We are very alert.

Mr Speaker: Just withdraw the word ‘cheated’.

Mr Muntanga: Do not be deceived.  


Mr Shakafuswa: Do not be misled.

Mr Muntanga: Do not be misled into thinking that we do not hear what is being said on the Floor. Sometimes, I am more alert when I am engaged in conversation than when I am just sitting idly and that is why I stand up immediately when someone says something wrong. It is not right for you to make my brain inactive as if we are in a classroom.

Mr Speaker, modernisation means that hon. Members of Parliament should be allowed to act like hon. Members of Parliament. Hon. Members cannot even say ‘hear, hear’ because we will be told that we are making noise.


Mr Muntanga: Sir, modernisation is one thing that is required here. One day as we discuss the must-haves of this institution, there should be no radio coverage. We must go to the amphitheatre and talk about ourselves with the radio off because, then, we will know the truth. We need to tell each other the truth for the betterment of this organisaiton.

Mr Mutelo: Yes.

Mr Shakafuswa: We even fight.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, on more than one occasion the previous Speaker switched off the recording system in order for us to speak freely ...

Mr Nkombo: Teaching us English.  

Mr Muntanga: ... and appreciate the situation that was before. If we just bottle up our feelings, then, we will not know what is really happening. I think modernisation should include totality.

Sir, members of staff should know that this is Parliament and should not think that we are their employees.

Mr Shakafuswa: True.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, vehicles of hon. Members are in the sun, and yet car shades are being made for staff. At the motel, the car shade was moved from where it was and put at the staff car park. A new shade has been put up for staff cars at the new offices as well. What about hon. Members of Parliament? This is an organisation for hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, we are only 150 hon. Members of Parliament while there are about 400 members of staff. Why do you consider them first? That is the reason certain members of staff are able to say to us, “Who are you? After all, you will only be here for five years.”

Sir, from where do they get that cheekiness?


Mr Muntanga: From where does this behaviour emanate?


Mr Muntanga: Hon. Members of Parliament have lost the respect that needs to be accorded to them.

Mr Shakafuswa: True!

Mr Muntanga: This loss of respect is apparent even when you go to functions. The only difference between an hon. Deputy Minister and I is just the title. We are both hon. Members of Parliament. However, at functions they announce Ministers, Deputy Ministers, Permanent Secretaries ...

Mr Hamududu: District Commissioners.

Mr Muntanga: ... and District Commissioners before they remember hon. Members of Parliament.


Mr Muntanga: Why?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: This reform should protect hon. Members of Parliament. It does not mean that you are more respectable when an hon. Member of Parliament serves you. Do not make the mistake of mistreating us and thinking that we are small. That is reason we have a system of electing one another here. We elect the Speaker, the Deputy Chairperson and others because we must all be friends in this House. We must give each other the respect that is required.

Sir, when the Hon. Mr Speaker came into the House the first time, he wanted to join us for tea because he thought we must be together, but he was stopped ...


Mr Muntanga: ... and directed to sit alone. It was strange. His handlers were stopping him. Let us not handle the Speaker like that. The Speaker must be one of us.


Mr Shakafuswa: Yes, allow him to come chill with us so that he sees what we eat.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we need reforms in totality.

With these very few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to adopt a lot of issues that I had jotted down starting with the welfare of hon. Members of Parliament, the functions of National Assembly offices in various constituencies and the expectations of our electorate.

Sir, I will begin with the welfare of hon. Members of Parliament, as has been observed. For us to be able to do our jobs in an attempt to meet the expectations of our electorate, our welfare has to be looked into. The issue of lobola was mentioned. Lobola assistance is real.

Mr Speaker: I know it is a common term, but it has an English equivalent and we must accept one of our arrangements that we communicate in the official language.

You may continue, hon. Member.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I do not want to be insubordinate, but lobola is in the Oxford Dictionary of English on Page 1028.


Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: It starts with the word lobola and then translates it into English.

Mr Speaker: Let me put it this way.


Mr Speaker: I know we can go into semantics. Let us use English words. I know that the English language has embraced a number of words from other languages, that much is recognised. I know what lobola means and many other people know what it means, but for ease of communication, let us be consistent.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, as we proceed on modernisation I think even the language will have to be adopted.


Mr Speaker: Recommendations can be made to the Committee.


Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: The needs of hon. Members are real and I need not repeat them. In order for hon. Members of Parliament to meet some of these needs, we should not be ashamed to ask for what we need. The remuneration of our colleagues in the Kenyan or Ugandan Parliaments leaves them with something to share with the family and meet personal needs.

Sir, I am aware of a survey done by the Jesuit Centre for Theological Reflection (JCTR) with regards to the perception of our electorate in our constituencies. One prominent feature that was cited was that hon. Members of Parliament do not visit their constituencies. When they were asked what they meant when they said hon. Members of Parliament do not visit their constituencies, the issue that was prominent was the issue of personal assistance.

Ms Imenda indicated ascent

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: People only consider having seen the hon. Members of Parliament when he or she has assisted them personally. They do not consider what the hon. Members of Parliament has lobbied for in terms of roads, bridges and schools among others.

Mr Speaker, sensitisation on the role of hon. Members of Parliament and the National Assembly offices in our constituencies is necessary. There is a serious need for the National Assembly to take every opportunity to educate the electorate on the four basic functions of hon. Members of Parliament. The perception out there is that we are not there for the people that elect us.

Sir, we also heard about the need for vehicles and I would like to bear testimony. I have not heard of an insurance scheme for hon. Members of Parliament. In my quest to play football, the Opposition versus the Government, I lasted for only five minutes on the pitch because I tore my ligament in the knee and ended up in hospital.


Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether you have seen me walk of late. I am not quite as agile and a straightforward young man as I used to be.


Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, this is a big issue. I know of colleagues who have been involved in road traffic accidents whilst on tour and I think in our modernisation, this is an issue that really needs to be forwarded to the Standing Committee. There must be a scheme that should cover us because nobody knows what happens to each one of us tomorrow. I am not even sure whether there are various insurance schemes for our members of staff. Really, this is an important issue.

Sir, the next issue I want to talk about is the function of the National Assembly Constituency Offices. I am aware that, in my office, there is a motor bike which has been lying there for the past two years. My Professional Assistant has a driver’s licence for a motor bike, but he cannot use it. Apparently, you have decided that until the National Assembly conducts a training session, those motor bikes will not be used. I think this is where flexibility must be exercised. We have a young man who is eager to visit our Constituency Development Fund (CDF) projects, but he is not able to. There are also instances where he is invited by the line ministry at district level, but he is not able to go due to lack of transport. I think we must be able to use such facilities when they are available.

Mr Speaker, we all know that we must reach our people. Some organisations have visited my office, but they have found your office to be more convenient in terms of accessibility of information such as how to reach the various wards. All I am saying is that more can be done at our National Assembly Constituency Offices than what is happening at the moment. These offices must be capacitated. If motor bikes are there, let the members of staff at those offices use them. More so, if there were motor vehicles, they could be of use by the hon. Members of Parliament when they go to visit their constituencies.

Mr Speaker, there is an issue of various functions at district level and this has been mentioned by various hon. Members of Parliament who have debated before me. This is where the hierarchy of the area Member of Parliament is not really understood by the organisers of the functions at district level.


Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Sir, perhaps, this is an arguable issue. How is it possible that at a function that is organised at district level, the District Commissioner (DC) is the Guest of Honour when the area Member of Parliament is in attendance? I think we need to streamline that. You will find that even in the protocol procedure, an area Member of Parliament’s name is mentioned at the end. At national level, there are three arms of Government. Therefore, hon. Members of Parliament would like to be involved in functions that take place in their districts. If the office of an area Member of Parliament is ignored, that leads to lack of information on the role of that office at district level. This, in our modernisation quest and reform, should be put into consideration. The Legislature must interact with the Executive and be informed that we are more or less like two sides of a coin. There are three arms of the Government and as such, their roles at district level must be to complement and not to exclude one another. I notice that there have been various issues that your Committee has referred to the Standing Committee.

Mr Speaker, the last point I want to discuss concerns the Budget Office. The Committee has been very clear in its recommendation that expert authority for the legislature to hold the executive in the analysis of the Budget must be given. This will make Parliament very professional. I think this is an issue that needs to be attended to urgently because if this is done effectively, everybody will gain.

Sir, I think most of the issues have already been looked at and I do not want to be repetitive. Lastly, what is dear to us is the issue of Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Committees. In my interaction with my colleagues, I have noted that people think that an area Member of Parliament is just a facilitator. You will find that when the projects are funded, the Ward Councillors start telling the people that, “I have built you a bridge or I have built a 1 x 2 classroom block.” I think there must be a way this must be done. It must be a chain. The Ward Councillor is there with the people all the time and the hon. Member of Parliament is away, but in his representative role, always bears in mind that he has come to Parliament because of the electorate in that particular area. So, this is, again, one of those issues that we need to carry on in our sensitisation programme.

Mr Speaker, I would like to end here and state that these are serious recommendations. Some of the recommendations may look strange, but in life, change is always something that is necessary.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am very grateful that this report has come before the whole House. I have a few items that I would like to address. I must admit that I once was a Member of this Committee and I am going to talk about a few things that I believe this Parliament can address. Some of the issues that I heard when we went to Kenya were very amazing. In Kenya, they have a pension scheme. Whoever works for two terms is placed on this pension scheme. Now, what is pertaining in this country is that very few of most of those who are drop out of Parliament survive. This affects both hon. Members on your left and right.

Sir, when I was Minister of Works and Supply, during the time when I had visited the Western Province, two Cabinet Ministers were dropped. One of them called me to say, “Please, stop your people from evicting me from the ministerial house. Give me a month because I do not have anywhere to go.”

Mr Speaker, I had to call the Permanent Secretary (PS) to ask him to allow that hon. Minister to occupy the house for a month. I told him that if someone is dropped from a ministerial position, he/she must vacate office in fifteen days and that that person had nowhere to go. However, on behalf of this hon. Minister I pleaded that he be given another month until he found where to go.  


Mr Simbao: The other one asked for three months and he challenged me to see the house into which he wanted to move. It had no windows, doors and was partially roofed. We cannot have a system like that. Hon. Shakafuswa, in his debate, stated that we are so high in hierarchy of the country, but when we leave this House, we drop to the bottom.

Mr Shakafuswa: To zero.

Mr Simbao: It should not be like that. In Kenya, they have a system where hon. Members who serve for two terms are put on a pension scheme. They appreciate hon. Members of Parliament for having worked for the country for two terms, which is quite a long time, because of the issues which they go through. So, I do not understand why we have to allow ourselves to be victims of our own making. It is important for all hon. Members of Parliament on either side to understand that once they leave this House, the forces are so bad and if not protected, most hon. Members die.

Mr Speaker, it was so shocking that when one Cabinet Minister in the Government of the late Dr Chiluba, whose name I will not mention, left the Government, he went to live in a container.


Mr Simbao: When the then late President, Dr Mwanawasa, SC., heard that information, he had to send him into Foreign Service and that is how he was assisted. We cannot allow such a situation to prevail. We are not so many that this Parliament cannot come up with a pension scheme for those who serve for two or three terms, as it might be decided.

Sir, let me talk about the issue of houses. In Kenya, hon. Members of Parliament are given loans to build houses. In this Parliament, we suggested that hon. Members of Parliament should decide what they would want to buy with the money that is provided for vehicles. They usually have personal vehicles so it would better if they used that money to build houses. In Kenya, when hon. Members of Parliament are given money to build houses, they are not told to build in their constituencies, but they choose where to build their houses. In this country, there are many hon. Members of Parliament ...

Mr Muntanga: Without houses.

Mr Simbao: ... without houses. We cannot allow that to continue because it is not right. There is no need for an hon. Member of Parliament to just buy a car and live at Parliament Motel for five years without building a house. It is a very bad practice.

Mr Speaker, let me talk about hon. Members of Parliament who become bedridden. In other Parliaments, like in South Korea, Parliament sets up a system which allows hon. Members of Parliament to participate in the debates that take place in Parliament. They set up a system where one is not required to be in Parliament, but sits in he/his room and participates in the debates. I think that is good for hon. Members of Parliament.

Ms Kapata: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: This is because it is unfair for those hon. Members who are bedridden for one reason or another to be denied the chance to participate in the debates in Parliament. We need to adopt such a system as a way to advance the parliamentary reforms in this country.

Sir, let me now talk about tea breaks. It has become a common trend for hon. Members to come back late from tea breaks because they are too short. We take two or three minutes to walk to the restaurant and most hon. Members have to quickly drink their tea. Today, we were served groundnuts and it was so difficult for most for us to chew fast.


Mr Simbao: So, we need to adjust the duration of our tea breaks. I propose that the Committee should consider allocating more time to tea breaks. Most times we do not start our debates on time. This means that there is definitely something wrong and we have to correct it. So, I appeal to the Committee to adjust the duration of tea breaks.

Mr Sikazwe: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: It is either we should not be given too much food or if we are served too much food, then, the time should be increased so that hon. Members can eat the food.

Sir, the other issue which was talked about by other hon. Members of Parliament is regards laptops. In Kenya, hon. Members of Parliament carry laptops into the Chamber. You may not be aware of this, but even in this Parliament hon. Members come with their smart cellular phones and use them. So, hon. Members should be allowed to use their cellular phones instead of them using them illegally. This is because this is allowed in other Parliaments and they have not abused that privilege. In fact, in the South Korean Parliament, hon. Members access the internet in Parliament on their laptops. It is allowed. If properly done, no one would abuse the system. However, hon. Members in this House still access the internet on their cellular phones and pass these phones around and this disturbs other hon. Members, and yet if they were allowed to come with their laptops, it would be better for everyone.

Mr Speaker, lastly, I want to talk about our dress code. We have not modernised our dress code in this Parliament. I am sorry but, again, I have to refer to the Kenyan Parliament. I observed that Hon. Members in that Parliament were all dressed in all sorts of attire.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Maybe, their definition of formal is different from the way we define it here. As I am dressed, it would be difficult for me to engage in a fight ...


Mr Simbao: ... and I would have to take off my jacket and tie. Hon. Members should be allowed to dress in any attire they are comfortable in so that they are not restricted to engage in any action. However, as I look around, we are all dressed like we are in the United Kingdom (UK) or United States of America (USA). All the men have neck ties like white men. Someone would not know whether this is Zambia or the UK. I think we need to revise some of these rules. That is how brief I wanted to be.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members as you are aware that the established convention is that nobody responds to the Motion. The only response, so to speak, will be exacted through the relevant Committees. That is the tradition of the House. I now call upon the hon. Member for Lubansenshi.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to pay my gratitude to Hon. Moono Lubezhi ...

Ms Lubezhi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: ... for the manner in which she seconded the report.

I would like to place on record the appreciation of Hon. Muchima, Hon. Nkombo, Hon. Shakafuswa, Hon. Muntanga, Hon. Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo and Hon. Simbao for their valued contributions to the debate on the Motion on the Floor. They were so passionate about bringing out important issues that were highlighted in the report. Lastly, I want to sincerely thank all hon. Members for having listened and supported the report.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.






Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Amendment of Section 2)

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mwila): Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on page 3:

(i)    Immediately after line 9 by the insertion of the following definition: ““apparatus” means any equipment, instrument, tool, implement or utensil used to commit or attempt to commit an act of terrorism;”;

(ii)    In line 14 by the deletion of the word “Central Joint Operations” and the substitution therefor of the word “National Anti-Terrorism”;  and

(iii)    In lines 16 and 17 by the deletion of the word “Executive” and on page 4, immediately after line 7 by the insertion of the following definition: ““reporting entity” has the meaning assigned to it in the Financial Intelligence Centre Act, 2010;”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 3 – (Insertion of New Part IA)

Mr Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 3, on pages 4-8 and page 8:

(ii)    in line lines 25 and 26 by the deletion of the word “national and the substitution therefor of the word “internal”; and; and

(ii)     in line 30 and 31 by the deletion of subsection (1) and the substitution therefor of the following:

“(1) The Centre shall coordinate the detection, response to, mitigation and investigation of, terrorist incidents and threats to internal security”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 3, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 4, 5 and 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The Following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Anti-Terrorism (Amendment) Bill, 2015

Report Stage on Tuesday, 21st July, 2015.




(Debate resumed)

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the report of your Committee has highlighted a problem that has affected our country such that our development process is lopsided because it is not informed by the cultural base of our society.

Sir, by sitting here this afternoon and listening to the debate, it clearly shows that our culture is not at the centre of our development process in different areas like our economy, politics and culture and social and so on which is the most unfortunate part of the development process not only in our country, but even on the African Continent.

Mr Speaker, let us look at a few examples. In the area of culture, we are a multi-ethnic, multi-langue and multi-cultural society. We are culturally rich, yet we do not project that richness.

Sir, for example, if we sit and listen to our Parliament Radio, we do not hear the Zambian music coming from our 150 constituencies. Those young and men and women who are manning the radio station are still mentally colonised and still look at music from the point of view of Western Music. They still play music from England, America and so on. We want to hear music from Kaputa.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: We want to hear music from Sinazongwe. The constituencies have the music which can be projected. Therefore, the mental decolonisation must take place right from here. We would, therefore, like those young men and women to stop what they are doing from today onwards.


Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, let them project our music ...

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: ... that reflects the importance of our culture as a basis of our development.  For example, we like watching videos or drama from Nigeria. We watch that.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, we enjoy Nigerian drama and movies. Culturally speaking, that is part of the African Renaissance. This goes way back to the 1970s and 1980s research programmes on studying African cultures, traditions, values and norms. The Nigerians have now turned that into action, in terms of making films and videos which are now part of the economy.

Mr Speaker, in this country, we had a drama section developed at the University of Zambia, by Professor Tamakloe, a Ghanaian, way back in the 1980s. People like the late Professor Mapopa Mutonga picked it up, but there was no support for that. At the moment, that has not gone very far, and we are now envying what is coming from Nigeria. This is something we could have developed and by now, we would have developed our culture to the highest levels. We would have taken advantage of the Information Communication Technology (ICT) advancements to develop Compact Discs, (CDs) Digital Versatile Discs (DVDs) and so on.

Sir, this is very unfortunate and it is just one example. Let us look at our laws. Our land laws are still colonial in outlook and content. If you own a piece of land, what is underground is not yours, and yet 94 per cent of the land in this country is traditional land. That means the land is governed by traditional values and norms. However, if minerals are discovered on the land owned by our people, the people are removed from that land and given very little compensation. That is very unfortunate because those are laws which were formulated by the colonialists to serve the interest of colonialism. That is how Europe under-developed Africa, Walter Rodney wrote in his book, titled How Europe Under-Developed Africa, which some of us read when we were young.

Mr Speaker, a very good example involves the people of Bafokeng in South Africa. You can read about them on the internet. They have a very interesting website. In 2010, they were able to host the FIFA football world cup in their own stadia which were constructed from resources from their own efforts. They own 13 per cent of the Impala Platinum Mine, and they have their own platinum mine and refinery. They are using their money to build schools, roads and clinics. They even sponsor students to various schools. They have an asset value of US$4 billion. That is how a development model for Africa should be. If minerals are discovered on the land owned by traditional people, the people must be part of the share holding. The laws must change. The laws that we make in this House are anti-development laws and are not part of our culture. We must change this in order for development to be meaningful and to have an impact on the African culture and our people.

Sir, the Lambas on the Copperbelt should by now be owning dream liner planes if they had shares in the copper mines. The Kaondes in Solwezi should, by now, be building a university, if they had shares in those mines. That is development that is culturally based. We must base our development on our culture. We must change the laws in order to serve ourselves better. Politically speaking, our politics are not based on our culture. Much of our political language is totally incorrect and not in sync without culture. For example, how can a leader say ‘I warn you, very strongly, and if you do not comply, you will face the wrath of the law.’ That is politically incorrect. It is not in line with our culture. If there is anything that we have to learn from a political point of view from our founding father, His Excellency former President Kaunda, it is to be humane with each other. Let us treat each other with integrity and respect. When he was President of Zambia, Dr Kaunda preached that very strongly, but here we are. Look at the type of language we use towards each other. It is not only wrong, but also not in line with our traditions and norms. We need to develop a political language that is accurate.

Mr Speaker, finally, it is very interesting to note that your report has, actually, had an impact in changing our outlook and perspectives in this House. My colleague here, (pointing at Hon. Namugala) who debated very strongly, has vowed never to put on a wig. I can see that the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environmental Protection has taken off her wig and she looks very beautiful.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Prof. Lungwangwa: Sir, the hon. Deputy Minister of Lands Natural Resources and Environmental Protection has also taken off the wig and she looks extremely beautiful.

Ms Namugala: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I think you have given enough examples.


Prof. Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, your report is very important. Our development process must be informed by our culture. Let us change the laws and make sure that our culture forms the basis of our development, including changing the way we dress. I would love to come in this House dressed in a siziba.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Siliya (Petauke Central): Mr Speaker, I just have a few points to make. I am just following up on the last speaker’s debate. I see how much some of the debates from last week have influenced the House. I was really expecting my dear sister, Hon. Namugala, to come very scantily dressed today as a reflection of the true Zambian culture like my Ngoni sisters who are her cousins.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Unfortunately, I think we have a much longer time to wait for that.


Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I support the Motion on the Floor and wish to thank the Committee for the work well done. I also wish to make very special mention of the mover as well as the seconder of the Motion.

Sir, I am going to limit myself to arts and culture, as part of our tourism promotion in this country.  I note that much more could have been done to explore the forward and backward linkages as far as arts and culture promotion is concerned, especially as it relates to education and training vis-à-vis the Information and Communication Technologies (ICTs).  I think there is need to promote arts and culture as businesses and harmonise the administrative and legislative instruments that we are using to manage the sector.

Mr Speaker, if art is skilled workmanship or the application of natural abilities, I think it is important that this talent is captured while people are very young in our country. On the visit to Ghana, the report made it very clear that arts are very much part of the education system from an elementary level, while your Committee made a recommendation with emphasis on tertiary education. Hon. Simbao made the point very clear, today, that there is always the right time to attain a first degree training. I think that if our people were exposed, especially the youth, at a very young age in arts such as music, drama or acting, writing and so on, the nation would benefit much more over a long period of time in terms from that training.

Mr Speaker, my second point is that I believe it is always a mistake to think of culture only as tangible things, whether it is clothes, hair or heritage site. I think culture is more than that. In fact, a simple definition of culture is that it is the total attainment and activities of a people over a specific period of time, and all that is anchored much more in ideas. Of course, culture sometimes is manifested in physical attributes, but I think it is everything about a people. It is their economics, agricultural development, tools, handicrafts, music, religion and so on.

Mr Speaker, in the promotion of our culture, we must not forget that it all begins with ideas. That is why in history, we have heard of progressive cultures because of ideas. Some of them have even disappeared over time. We know of very strong cultures and civilisations of ancient Egyptians and the people who built the pyramids. There was also the ancient culture and civilisation of the Greek gods and I think all that is based on ideas. That was the result of ideas of Socrates, Pluto and so on. Culture is defined as a total sum of activities of people, but it needs all the time improvement of the mind, morals and standards. That is why culture is not stagnant. It can change over time.

Mr Speaker, another point that I want to put across is that the internet is here to stay. We can embrace it in the promotion of our culture and arts or we can refuse to embrace it at our own peril. As regards the point that was being made by Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa that a lot of young people now are playing the Rihanna or Beyoncé music and so on, I think you cannot stop the impact of technology on our culture.

However, what is important is to see what is good in our culture and promote it for tourism. One wonders how it is possible that the Chinese, who do not usually use wigs or fake hair, can create such a big industry and sell hairs to Africans so that people like me can actually be blond when we decide to be. I think this has to do with a culture of progress, business and taking advantage of every opportunity and not seeing the difference.

Mr Speaker, any time that the Government interfaces with culture and arts, it is not for its own sake. It is to achieve three things. These are to generate wealth, jobs and avenues for tax. It should not just be for its own end of enjoying what is Zambian and avoiding what is not. Like I have already stated, culture does change. Even the parliament system we are using today, one would say this is remnant of colonialism, but we have embraced it. It is now part of our political or democratic culture.

Mr Speaker, in trying to promote culture, I think we have to look at the positives. We must have a culture of an open society that embraces that which will make our people have more wealth. I think it is important that the Ministry of Tourism and Arts truly considers the issue of standards. I know a lot has been done over time, but I think that if we are going to expand and diversify culture and arts, including visits to heritage sites, we need to do more.

For example, a few years ago I visited the falls in the Northern Province. I could not even get a cup of coffee from there. I am Zambian and love my coffee and drink it the whole day. So, when I visit a tourist site, I want to be able to get a cup of coffee. Tourists are just not foreigners. Even Zambians are tourists. We can be local tourists and, therefore, we must be encouraged to go to these places. Our tourist sites must be user-friendly for children. We need to see linkages with the private sector, such as financial institutions, so that these sites are developed to be family friendly. This will encourage more tourists, not just foreigners, but also Zambians to participate in tourism.

In terms of diversification, we have seen how other countries like Singapore and India are offering health and spar tourism. Since we are a peaceful country, I think there is possibility for people considering retirement tourism to Zambia. We have seen countries in the southern part of Europe such as Spain, Portugal, France and Italy offering a lot of retirement tourism to people who are working in the United States of America (USA) and England. People go there as retired tourists. I think this is happening a lot in countries like South Africa on this continent.

It is a shame we are now seeing reverse tourism. It is Zambians now who are on flights every weekend going to South Africa, where I do not even think there is a natural wonder. It is the South Africans who should be coming here if we had promoted tourism in this country. We have to explore more on what we can offer. If I go to Livingstone today and see the Victoria Falls, then what? Most tourists want a variety of products. Even the eating habits of Zambians have changed. We eat sushi, spaghetti and so many other things. We want to eat nshima today and then something else the next day. The lack of variety in our tourist products is what reduces the flow of visitors. I always make the point that in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, there is just the sand, sea and nothing else. However, about 6 million to 7 million tourists visit this place every year. They go there because they can go in an Italian restaurant one day and then the next day in a European restaurant and so on. In Livingstone and Zambia in general, we are still struggling.

Mr Speaker, the other point I want to make is on the issue of harmonising the instruments for managing the tourism sector. There was a lot of debate that there are too many administrative policies and legislative instruments and, therefore, they need to be harmonised. There is concern that this sector is being managed from different ministries.

It is important to have a champion for a specific cause and in this case, it is the Ministry of Tourism and Arts that must ensure that promotion of tourism is done. I think that sometimes, we get bogged down looking at whether they are three or four pieces of legislation. What is important is that firstly, we need to sit down and see what we want to achieve. Once we have the targets, it is easy to work backwards because we know what we want to achieve. It is easy to work through all the mud and see how to achieve our target. If we keep going forward without a clear target, even the budgeting becomes a problem. Lack of a clear target is what makes us think that we are just paying lip service to arts and cultural promotion in this country, which can really support our young people.

Mr Speaker, in the Report, I saw some of the cultural practices in Ghana, especially the one about keeping quiet for a month so that the fish can multiply and the crops can grow. It seems a strange culture to us, but you can understand the scientific appreciation of that. I also saw one about the young girls being told certain stories so that they do not get pregnant at an early age. It might be seen as a primitive culture to other people, but it is a good culture.

Mr Speaker, I just saw statistics, yesterday, which I think the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education should take note of. In 2014, in our primary schools, 16,000 girls were pregnant and dropped out of school. Out of the few, about 5,000 that went back to school, most of them did not even stay in school. If young girls are getting pregnant, it means they are having live sex. So, there is a human-immuno-deficiency virus/acquired immuno deficiency syndrome (HIV/AIDS) issue there. I think that is a culture which is not progressive. That must be stated.  In terms of the overall economy, these girls will never be productive members of society because they are already damaged at a very young age.

Mr Speaker, so, when I am talking about culture, I think Hon. Dr Kaingu never stops to talk about culture remodelling. How do we get our culture right to support our economy in totality, including the way we think? The biggest cultural infrastructure is actually in our head and how we think.

Mr Speaker, I also think that as we continue to promote culture, we have to look for some of the vices that other countries are experiencing like human trafficking and sex tourism. I think that we have to be ready to address those issues because some of them are already happening and we must make sure that we do not find ourselves entangled in those dangers.

Mr Speaker, I think those are some of the issues I want to address.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: I will now allow the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art to respond.

Mr Kampyongo: Fire!

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, there is no one to fire.


Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Report of the Committee on Lands, Environment and Tourism. I also wish to join previous speakers in congratulating the Committee and its staff for the excellent job done in preparing this report. I would also like to thank Hon. Masebo, Hon. Namugala, Hon. Lungwangwa and Hon. Siliya for their contributions.

Mr Speaker, the issues that this report has brought out are crucial to the development of the tourism sector and the economy at large. In this regard, I also wish to highlight some issues.

Mr Speaker, I would like to take note of Hon. Namugala’s observation and recommendations to have the Environmental and Forestry Department in the Ministry of Tourism and Arts. I say so because Zambia’s tourism sector is nature-based. Therefore, forests are habitats for wildlife and heritage sites. It is, therefore, important to put forestry under one institution for the effective and efficient  management of natural resources. Bringing forestry in one institution will make it easy to manage the bio-diversity.

Mr Speaker, I wish to take note of the Committee’s observations that the establishment of centres for culture is an effective means of promoting the development of the creative arts industry. Further, I wish to take note of the observation and recommendations that art and culture should be properly packaged as part of the tourism product of the country because they play critical roles in the tourism sector.

I also wish to take note of the Committee’s observations and recommendations that the national arts council should decentralise its operations so that the cultural centres could be set up in all provinces for purposes of effective management of the sector.

Mr Speaker, furthermore, I wish to take note of the Committee’s observations of the need to finalise the National Arts, Culture and Heritage Commission Bill in order to improve coordination. I am happy to report that the Bill is ready and will be submitted to Cabinet soon.

Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, under the leadership of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, has been addressing these issues of fragmented administration of arts and culture by working together with other relevant institutions.

Mr Speaker, while noting various issues brought out by your Committee, allow me to highlight some of the things this Government is doing to address the identified challenges.

Mr Speaker, regarding the development of arts and cultural infrastructure, the Government, through the Ministry of Tourism and Arts, continued to build cultural centres in provincial headquarters. In addition, we have constructed the National Arts Gallery in Livingstone. This is a recent development which shows the Government’s commitment to improve access to arts and cultural infrastructure. The Gallery was constructed at a cost of K4,500,000.00.

Sir, furthermore, infrastructure development has been undertaken by relevant line ministries in some tourism sites. For example, the Government, through the Road Development Agency (RDA), is working on various roads under the Link Zambia 8,000km Road Project to construct roads in the Northern Circuit as well as other tourism regions such as the Kasama/Mporokoso, Mansa/Luwingu, Kawambwa/Mushota Roads, Mongu/Kalabo and Sesheke/Sioma roads.

In addition, Sir, the Government, through the National Heritage Conservation Commission, is developing infrastructure at various heritage sites.

Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that my ministry is working closely with other relevant ministries to ensure that the issue of piracy is addressed. In this regard, the Government, through the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services, purchased the hologram machine at the cost of K1,000,000.00. The hologram has, so far, enabled the collection of intellectual property rights due to the artists. This was not possible before the hologram was purchased.

Mr Speaker, I am happy to inform the hon. Members of Parliament that the National Tourism Policy has now been approved by the Cabinet and the ministry will soon launch it. The policy has incorporated a number of issues raised by citizens concerning the development of the sector. This is clear testimony of my Government’s commitment to deliver development to the citizens.

Mr Speaker, discussions regarding the establishment of a university on tourism and hospitality are still on-going. The main challenge is that most investors are demanding for guarantees from the Government, which it is not willing to provide since it is supposed to be self-financing commercial venture by the private sector.

Mr Speaker, the Government, through my ministry and other relevant line ministries, is working tirelessly to ensure that our tourism sector becomes competitive. In this regard, we have requested the Policy Monitoring and Research Centre to make a competitive profile of our sector. The report is expected to tie up with work policy options for developing a competitive tourism industry that can contribute to the Government’s key objectives of economic diversification, employment generation and poverty reduction.

In addition to that, Zambia and Zimbabwe are implementing the UNIVISA Pilot Project where tourists are using one VISA. The programme started in November 2014 up to May; it was extended to December, 2015, after which we expect other countries to join the project.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank all the hon. Members that contributed to the debate on this report. I am grateful that five hon. Members, including Hon. Masebo, Hon. Prof. Lungwangwa, Hon. Siliya and the seconder debated in support of the Motion. I was very humbled by the way the seconder spoke. Overall, I am grateful that the hon. Minister is willing to accept the recommendations. I, therefore, ask all the hon. Members to support the report.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Question put and agreed to.


The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1902 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 15th July, 2015.





614. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West) asked the Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication:

(a)    whether the Government was aware that the people of Lunyiwe Ward of Kabompo West Parliamentary Constituency had been cut-off from the rest of Kabompo District following the non-existence of bridges across the Nyela, Dishiwu and Kasombo Rivers;

(b)    if so, when bridges across the rivers above would be constructed;

(c)    what the estimated period of constructing the bridges was; and

(d)    what the total cost of constructing the three bridges was.

The Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication (Mr Mukanga): Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the non-existence of bridges across Nyela, Dishiwu and Kasombo rivers in Kabompo West and has plans to construct crossings on the said crossing points. The works were initially planned to be undertaken by the Road Development Agency (RDA), under the Force Account, but have since been handed over to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

 It is, therefore, anticipated that the construction of bridges across the three points will commence in the second quarter of 2016, under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing Budget line. To this effect, assessments have been done to start the procurement process. The estimated time for executing the works is twelve months from the date of commencement. The total cost of constructing the three bridges will be known once the procurement process has been completed and the contractor is identified.

Mr Speaker. I thank you.