Debates - Thursday, 9th July, 2015 | National Assembly of Zambia

Thursday, 9th July, 2015

The House met at 1430 hours

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_______

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

LIFTING OF THE BAN ON CAT HUNTING IN ZAMBIA

The Minister of Tourism and Art (Ms Kapata): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to issue a ministerial statement on the lifting of the ban on cat hunting. I am aware that the public has received this development with mixed reactions. I, therefore, wish to shed more light on this subject.

Mr Speaker, allow me to state that the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, under the able leadership of His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, attaches great importance to the development of the tourism sector due to its potential to contribute to job creation, poverty reduction and the economic well-being of the grassroots. You may wish to note that wildlife still remains the mainstay of leisure tourism in this country. Zambia subscribes to both consumptive and non-consumptive tourism.

Mr Speaker, this august House and the public may need to know that in Zambia, wildlife has been designated to twenty national parks and thirty-six game management areas (GMAs), totaling 236,376 km² which is equivalent to 31.4 per cent or one-third of the landmass.

Sir, of the twenty national parks, only four, namely Kafue, South Luangwa, Lower Zambezi and Mosi-o-Tunya are self-sustaining. The wildlife estate is managed by the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) that has a staff establishment of 1,250 wildlife police officers. However, ZAWA needs 3,500 wildlife police officers to effectively manage the wildlife estate at optimal levels.

Mr Speaker, it is important to note that even with a full staff establishment, it is not possible for the Government to effectively manage and protect wildlife resources alone. To this effect, the Zambia Wildlife Act, No. 12 of 1998 provides for the co-management of wildlife estates with communities living around GMAs and the private sector. This is international best practice for wildlife conservation and management.

Mr Speaker, as this august House may recall, the Government effected the ban on cat hunting, including the suspension of safari hunting in the nineteen hunting blocks, on 10th January, 2013. Some of the reasons advanced included:

(a) weak regulatory mechanism;

(b) declining lion population in some areas due to indiscriminate and over harvesting;

Mr Speaker, I am happy to report that most of the parameters that necessitated the imposition of the ban on cat hunting and suspension of safari hunting in the nineteen hunting blocks are no longer valid because the Government has implemented various measures to improve the situation. You may wish to note that Zambia has three big cat clusters, namely Luangwa Valley, Kafue and Lower Zambezi ecological systems. According to the statistics, it is estimated that there are between 1,500 to 2,500 lions and about 4,000 leopards in all the three clusters combined. In view of this, Zambia is ranked highly in terms of its big cat population in the sub-region after Tanzania, South Africa and Botswana.

Mr Speaker, based on the current lion population estimates, the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES) has listed Zambia’s lion population in Appendix II. From a global perspective, lions are among the wildlife that can be hunted in Zambia and the trophies derived from the hunts exported to other CITES member States.

Mr Speaker, allow me to inform this august House and the public that in addition to establishing the lion and leopard population in the country, the Government, through a consultative process, has produced comprehensive documents that describe the status of lions and prescribes modalities for regulating cat hunting in Zambia. These modalities are similar to what is currently obtaining in neighbouring countries like Tanzania, Mozambique and Zimbabwe and have proved to be effective. This gives us confidence that we are not operating without proper guidelines because our decisions are based on facts. The modalities will be crafted into a Statutory Instrument (SI) so that they become part of law on wildlife.

Mr Speaker, taking into consideration these positive developments, we cautiously lifted the ban on cat hunting on 10th May, 2015. I, therefore, wish to emphasise the following:

(a) leopard hunting shall resume in the 2015/2016 hunting season; and

(b) lion hunting shall only resume in the 2016/2017 hunting season with cautionary quotas where only two lions will be allowed to be hunted in prime hunting areas and one in secondary hunting areas and game ranches.
Mr Speaker, I wish to remind the nation that the main thrust of safari hunting is cat hunting which involves hunting of mostly lion and leopard. The ban on the cat hunting, therefore, affected consumptive tourism or safari hunting and, consequently, wildlife conservation and management. As said earlier, the best mode for wildlife conservation is co-management with the communities living in surrounding GMAs and the private sector.

Mr Speaker, the ban on cat hunting meant that both the community and the private sector were pushed out of the wildlife conservation picture. Subsequently, communities were denied access to the main resource of their economic livelihood whereas the safari companies could not sustain employees on their payroll. Considering the weak capacity for ZAWA to manage both national parks and GMAs, the illegal harvesting of wildlife resources could not be controlled effectively. If this situation was left unchecked, the country risked losing its valuable resource. Like in any other business, the principle in wildlife conservation is simple, and that is, you need money to make money.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Thus, the wildlife sector should engage in viable business in order to conserve wildlife sustainably.

Sir, I am aware of the misconception that hunting is destructive because it involves killing. This is not the correct position in wildlife conservation and management. On the contrary, if hunting is carefully done, it can significantly contribute to the conservation of the animal species that is being hunted, as the revenue that is generated from the hunting activities is ploughed back into conservation activities, thereby contributing to job creation and the uplifting of livelihoods of local communities who are the custodian of the wildlife resource.

Mr Speaker, the public may wish to note that in safari hunting, quotas are carefully set to ensure that there is no over hunting. The quotas are based on population estimates of animals, species by species. Hunting is never done indiscriminately as some sections of our society may want to portray. It is only the small apex population of the old animals that are hunted. There is a set age limit of animals that can be hunted by experienced professional hunters during the hunting season. In addition, the hunting of female cats is prohibited. That way, safari hunting is not destructive, but is used as a sustainability strategy in wildlife conservation and management.

Sir, it is my sincere hope that members of the public understand that the lifting of the ban on cat hunting was a well-informed decision meant to enhance the conservation of wildlife and improve the economic wellbeing of local communities. Finally, I wish to appeal to all hon. Members of Parliament of this august House and the public at large to support the measures that the Government has put in place to improve the wildlife sector.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister of Tourism and Art.

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Mr Speaker, on a lighter note, the hon. Minister stated that safari hunters will only be allowed to hunt male animals. However, if the population of the male animals is depleted, then, the females will not reproduce.

Laughter

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, rare commodities the world over are dear. There are countries where the population of some species of wild animal is almost extinct. The Government needs to take into consideration the fact that we need to benefit from the hunting of the rare animals since Zambia is one of the few countries that has allowed the hunting of lions. In view of this, we should consider increasing the hunting licence fees because I have noticed that our benefit and that of the people who bring the hunters …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

What is your question, hon. Member?

Mr Shakafuswa: Sir, what is our benefit, as a nation, and what is that of the safari hunters?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, it is true that the hunting licence fees were quite low and the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) has since adjusted them upwards. The benefit to the nation is that 50 per cent of the revenue generated from hunting licence fees is ploughed back into the communities where the hunting takes place so that they can construct infrastructure such as schools.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, we have had two figures of the population of wild cats. The figures that the hon. Minister gave in her previous statement and those from another source in the ministry are different. What is the population of big cats in Zambia at the moment?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I mentioned that the population of lions is estimated at 1,500-2,500 and that of leopards at 4,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Belemu (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that one of the reasons for the ban in 2013 was the dwindling numbers of the cat family. It is common knowledge that no census of the animal population was conducted. I would like to find out how the figures that she gave us were obtained and why a census was not conducted in order to get the actual figures of the animal population.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, it is difficult to carry out a survey on cats because they cannot be counted head by head. So, there is a special system that is applied to count the cats. They are counted through their prey, the noise they make through the noise or through a deoxyribonucleic acid (DNA) test. It is very difficult to count the animals, but those are the estimations that we have.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, I was one of the supporters of the ban on the hunting of big cat. I worried now that the hon. Minister has lifted the ban and restricted the hunting to two lions per hunting block. I wonder whether the hon. Minister has put measures in place to ensure that there is no illegal harvesting of especially the lion.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, previously, a hunting block was allowed to hunt up to five lions. We have since reduced the number to two in both prime areas and secondary areas. We also hunt the male lions because they may have left the pride. The House may wish to know that when a lion gets older, it is pushed out of the pride. When this happens, it is unable to catch prey, and so it resorts to eating human beings. This further results in animal/human conflict.

Sir, there is also an age limit to the hunting of certain animals. In this case, only animals that are above 6 years will be hunted. Therefore, if the hunting is done by professional hunters, they will use this as a guide.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamudulu (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister referred to the Government’s desire to partner with the communities that live around the game management areas (GMAs) and the private sector in order to effectively manage and protect the wildlife resources. Although we have heard about this song time and again, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when we are going to take concrete steps towards introducing this important system of managing our GMAs.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, in case the hon. Member did not know, the Communities have partnered with the owners of the hunting blocks, and 50 per cent of the revenue realised from the hunting activities is ploughed back into the community where the hunting blocks are.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, during the ban, a lot of communities suffered because their source of resources dwindled. It is a well-known fact that part of the contribution from the communities is the provision of village scouts. However, they have not been paid from the time the ban was effected. Now that the ban has been lifted, resources will start coming in. I would like to find out whether the village scouts are going to be paid in arrears for the months that they did not receive their salaries.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the village scouts are employed by the communities and, during the time the ban was in effect, they were not paid because the communities were not making any money. Once the communities start getting their share of the revenue, the village scouts will also be paid their dues.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how much the adjustment in the hunting licence fees has been, and from what figure to what figure?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, that is a new question. I would like to ask the hon. Member to put it in writing so that I can bring the correct answer to this House. What I know is that fees for all the hunting licences for all animal species that are eligible for hunting have been adjusted upwards. So, hunters will not buy the licences at the old price because the fees have been adjusted upwards.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chansa (Chimbamilonga): Mr Speaker, my question also relates to village scouts.

Sir, since the community resource boards (CRB) have no resources to sustain their activities in the game management areas (GMAs), does the Government have any plans to put the village scouts on the its payroll?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the Government has been paying salaries for village scouts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that statement.

Mr Simuusa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, let me start by apologising to my sister, Hon. Masebo, for disturbing her question.

Sir, I rise on a point of order on the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development. Last week, I raised a question on the Floor of the House in regard to the copper concentrates that Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) has imported from Chile. My question was: How safe the arsenic content level in the copper concentrates was. In response, the hon. Deputy Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development said that there was nothing unsafe about the content of arsenic in the copper concentrates.

Sir, yesterday, the Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environment Protection, Hon. Ngimbu, gave a directive that that Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) should not process the copper concentrate that it imported from Chile owing to the arsenic content in the concentrate and further ordered that the concentrate be sent back to Chile.

Mr Speaker, taking into account your guidance that we should be factual in our debate to avoid misleading the House and the nation at large, was the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development in order to state that there was no set limit in the arsenic content level and that the arsenic content level in the copper concentrate was safe when the hon. Minister of Lands, Natural Resources and Environment Protection has now ordered that the copper concentrate should not be processed because of its arsenic content? Was the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development therefore, in order to have allowed the importation of the copper concentrate in the first place? I need your serious ruling.

Mr Mucheleka: Ebaume, aba!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I am requesting the hon. Minister of Mines, Energy and Water Development, through the Leader of Government Business in the House, to come to the House with a statement clarifying the issues that have been raised.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: May the hon. Member for Chongwe continue.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for bringing that important statement to the House.

From the outset, I would like to put it on record that I did not support the lifting of the ban on hunting. In addition, the figures that she has given the House on the population of lions being over a 1,000 and 2,000 are not correct. From what I know, there could be less than 400 lions in this country, but we shall leave this to posterity.

Sir, my question to the hon. Minister is that since she has made this decision without putting in place the necessary statutory instrument how is she going to effect the rules and regulations that she has put in place to ensure that there is no indiscriminate killing of lions?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to inform this august House that very soon, I will be introducing the Tourism Bill in the current sitting of the House. Therefore, all those issues that are being raised now will be addressed in that piece of legislation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr L. Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, I wish to put it on record that the lifting of the ban on the hunting of big cats is an irresponsible move by the Patriotic Front (PF) Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. Ngoma: Sir, are they saying that the ban was affecting other game parks? I ask because the hon. Minister said that the survival of the four game parks that she mentioned is dependent upon the hunting of lions. Are they sure that the tourists are only interested in hunting lions?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, firstly, let me correct the hon. Member’s statement. Hunting is never done in a game park, but in a game management area (GMA). You know, cat hunting is not only exciting, but it also brings in a lot of revenue. It is the best part of hunting that is best done here in Zambia. For a long time now, the communities surrounding the GMAs have not benefitted from the hunting. So, we would like them to benefit from the activities because the lions are their natural resources.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mweetwa (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, with the, …

Mr Sing’ombe: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sing’ombe: Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to raise this point of order. Between the 1st and 6th July, 2015, a well-known Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) officer went to Chikanta Resettlement Scheme in Dundumwezi Parliamentary Constituency and gave permits to villagers to go and fish in the Kafue National Park. After a day or so, some ZAWA officers went and arrested thirty people who were found fishing. In the process, a Grade 9 pupil died. As I am speaking, his body is lying in the Itezhi-tezhi Hospital mortuary. Is the Minister of Tourism and Art in order to remain quiet when more than fifteen people have been arrested and detained at Ngoma Park and denied an opportunity to mourn their son?

Sir, I seek your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that you should put in a question of an urgent nature and we shall ensure that it is fast-tracked.

May the hon. Member for Choma Central continue.

Mr Mweetwa: Mr Speaker, with the hunting ban for big wild cats in place, it meant that safari hunters and concessioners who were licensed to conduct safari hunting got the licences at a lower price since big cats were not contemplated within the scheme of hunting. Now that the hunting of big cats has been allowed and licence fees increased, what is being done to recover the shortfall?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, before the hunting concessions are given, those that are interested in hunting bid, and the highest bidder gets the hunting block. So, whether there are lions in those places or not, we leave that to the owners of the concessions to deal with the way they deem fit, but when they hunt for lions, we collect revenue from that hunting activity.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, we are told that villagers will be getting 50 per cent of the licence fees. I would like to know how much a lion costs so that the villagers can know what the actual 50 per cent is.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, the proceeds will not only be realised from hunting lions, but from all the animal species that are in a particular hunting block. From time immemorial, communities have always got 50 per cent of the proceeds. If the area has a chief, then, he gets 5 per cent while the community gets 45 per cent of the proceeds. So, for me to give the right price of the lion, the hon. Member should file in a question.

Mr Kunda (Muchinga): Sorry, Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by events.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told us how expensive the lion is. She further said that only two lions will be killed each hunting season and that people living in the game management areas (GMAs) will benefit from this activity. She also said that lions are an endangered species. May I know what real benefit is there in killing lions, which are already an endangered species, particularly that she does not know the price.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, firstly, let me set the record straight and inform you that it is not true that there are less than 400 lions in Zambia. The lion population is between 1,500 and 2,500. I have not lifted the hunting ban on lions this year. As the Government, we are still working on how this can be done. What I said was that the ban on the hunting of leopards has been lifted for 2015/2016 while that on lions will be lifted in 2016/2017. I may just change my mind and extend the ban on the hunting of lions. So, let us not belabour things that I have not mentioned. I have been very clear in my statement and, since we all understand English, I think we understood what I meant in my statement.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I am happy that the hon. Minister has not lifted the ban on the hunting of lions. My question is, …
Mr Hamudulu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hamudulu: Mr Speaker, I am sorry for disturbing the hon. Member who was just about to raise a question. However, my point of order is very compelling. The hon. Minister has just told us that she can easily change her mind on a very important policy matter. Is she in order to come here and tell us that the policy matters that she talks about in this House are dependent upon the status of her mind, which she can change at will?

Sir, I need your serious ruling.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Minister stated that lifting of the ban on the hunting for leopards will be effected in the 2015/2016 hunting season while that for lions will be lifted in 2016/2017. However, this is not cast in concrete.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Long live the Chair.

Mr Pande (Kasempa): Mr Speaker, I would like to go back to the question which has already been asked by other hon. Members regarding village scouts. The hon. Minister indicated that the Government is paying their salaries.

Mr Speaker, I have some village scouts in my constituency. The problem of paying salaries for scouts has been there before and during the ban on the hunting of lions. The impression being created is that there were difficulties in paying them because of the ban. I say that should not be so because hunters do not hunt lions only as stated by the hon. Minister. So, the question is: if the Government is paying salaries for scouts, why are they in arrears in Kasempa and, I am sure, many other community resource boards (CRBs)?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, earlier in this sitting of the House, I informed the House that the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) was going to be turned into a department in the Ministry of Tourism and Art because of the statutory obligations which it was failing to meet.

Mr Speaker, from what I know, the Government has been paying salaries for village scouts. If there places where they have not been paid, we shall follow this up and inform my comrade, Hon. Muntanga, …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: There are no comrades here but hon. Members.

Mr Muntanga: Comrade, me?

The Deputy Chairperson: She will graciously withdraw that term.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the term “comrade” and replace it with “colleague”.

Mr Speaker, the Government has been paying salaries for village scouts from the time the ban was effected. Before this, they were paid by the communities. The scouts are paid every three months. So, I am sure they will be paid shortly.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Kalima (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, it seems I am one of those from this side who have understood what the hon. Minister…

Interruptions

Ms Kalima: … is saying.

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Kalima: I support the lifting of the ban.

Firstly, the hon. Minister stated that the ban on the hunting of lions will be lifted in 2016/2017. The revenue that will be generated from this activity will benefit the community. In addition, Zambia has been ranked fourth in terms of big cat population in the sub-region. Could the hon. Minister restate the reasons she wants to lift the ban in 2016/2017 so that those who do not seem to have understood can appreciate the reasoning of the hon. Minister.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, like I said earlier, the Bill will be brought to the House so that we put in place the Statutory Instrument (SI) that will control wildlife.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, the mukula tree is being depleted whilst we are busy complaining instead of establishing nurseries for the tree.

The number of big wild cats is depleting.

Mr Mweetwa: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: No more points of order.

May the hon. Member on the Floor continue.

Mr Mtolo: Is there a policy of breeding the animals to increase the numbers so that we have many safari hunters coming to Zambia?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, firstly, let me correct the notion that lions are an endangered species. They are not an endangered species because they are quite many here in Zambia.

Hon. Member for Chipata Central, you want to change my statement. In my statement, I have said that we have enough lions to allow for safari hunting.

Mr Speaker, let me mention that in Africa, Zambia is ranked third in terms of lion population after South Africa and Botswana. As far as we are know, there are about 2,500 and leopards 400.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Ms Lubezhi (Namwala): Mr Speaker, some of us do not support the lifting of the ban. Now that the hon. Minister has confirmed that the ban on the hunting of leopards will be lifted in 2015/2016, what is the hunting-licence fee for a leopard?

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker that is a new question. Can the hon. Member file in a question and we shall provide the figures.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

RECENT EVENTS AT THE COPPERBELT UNIVERSITY

The Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education (Dr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for the opportunity to present a ministerial statement on the recent events at the Copperbelt University (CBU) and the action that my ministry has taken to deal with them.

Mr Speaker, on 22nd June, 2015, the CBU Academics Union wrote a letter to me, as Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education, in which they informed me of a number of issues in respect of the operations of the university.

Mr Speaker, on the morning of 24th June, 2015, barely a few hours after the letter was delivered to my ministry, the CBU Academics Union made a public statement on the contents of their letter to the hon. Minister, and further demanded that their concerns be addressed with immediate effect.

Mr Speaker, the CBU Academics Union further demanded that the Vice-Chancellor and the entire management of the CBU be removed from their positions.

Sir, the academic staff members of the CBU Academics Union also immediately withdrew their services and resolved not to teach until their demands were met. They have withheld their services since 24th June, 2015. Since then, no teaching has taken place at the university.

Mr Speaker, the ministry instructed the CBU Council to study the concerns of the CBU Academics Union and advice the hon. Minister accordingly. In accordance with the Higher Education Act No. 4 of 2013, the council of a public university is responsible for the governance, control and administration of the institution of higher education.

Mr Speaker, following this, the CBU Council met on 1st July, 2015. Among the matters brought before the council meeting was the resolution of the CBU Academic Union, and the need to restore the normal academic and administrative life of the university. The union refused to engage in any dialogue despite the many attempts by the council and interventions by the Chairperson of the council to persuade the teaching staff to resume classes, remove their threats and engage in dialogue.

The CBU Council informed the union that it was already willing to discuss all its concerns, but this could only be done under an atmosphere of constructive dialogue and not through threats and illegal strikes. The union declined to accept any form of dialogue unless its demands were met.

Sir, the Senate of the CBU met on Thursday, 2nd July, 2015, and proposed that the Chancellor hosts a meeting with the union in order to persuade them to return to work. The union refused to meet with the Chancellor of the university.

Mr Speaker, as a result of the impasse, the students have been denied the education for which their parents, guardians and sponsors have paid. This situation is unacceptable and could not be allowed to continue. Sir, it is a pity that the union shunned all requests and opportunities for dialogue and continued with the illegal strike.

Mr Speaker, my ministry is determined to ensure that the academic and administrative function of the CBU are restored so that the university can deliver on its mandate to produce qualified human resources for the development of our country. This could not be delivered in a situation where academic staff withdrew their services and spurned all the efforts made to call for dialogue.

Mr Speaker, in accordance with the powers of the hon. Minister as provided under Part III, Section 13 of the Higher Education Act No. 4 of 2013, I have taken the following actions:

(a) closed the CBU indefinitely with immediate effect. All students have been given 24 hours to vacate the premises with effect from 13 hours on Wednesday, 8th July, 2015;

(b) not closed the Schools of Medicine and Graduate Studies. I wish to commend the academic and administrative staff of the two schools for their dedication to duty and for not taking part in the illegal strike;

(d) instructed the CBU Council to work towards resolving the issues that have constrained the normal operations of the university and ensured that the academic life of the university is restored with minimum delay; and

(e) instructed the CBU Council to take all the necessary steps to ensure that the recent events at the university are not repeated in the future.

Sir, I wish to express our sincere regret to parents, guardians and sponsors of the students at the CBU for this break in the academic programme. This action has not been taken lightly. The Chancellor, CBU Council and Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education have all worked diligently to try to restore the academic life of the university while addressing the problems expressed by the CBU Academic Union. Unfortunately, the union has been intransigent and refused to engage in any form of dialogue.

I wish to assure the students that we shall seek to make this closure as short as possible. I urge all of them to keep calm and allow the university council to work towards the resolution of the issues which have disrupted the academic programmes.

We shall continue to encourage a spirit of dialogue and discussion among the academic and administrative staff of the CBU. This should be a normal feature of an academic institution in contrast to the illegal withdrawal of services and holding of students as hostages. We need to move forward and seek solutions to our many problems in a spirit of co-operation.

Mr Speaker, as hon. Minister responsible for higher education, I am aware that our higher education system is beset with many problems. Many of these problems are a spillover from the past years and may not be solved within a short period. However, it is important that all players in the subsector work towards finding solutions to the problems that can be categorised broadly as:

(a) financial obligations in the form of accrued statutory obligations and staff benefits;

(b) constraints on available infrastructure for teaching learning and student accommodation facilities given the increasing number of school leavers seeking university education;

(d) inadequate number staff at the level of professor to provide guidance to young staff, particularly in research;

(e) inadequate learner support systems such as access to the internet for learning and research; and

(f) lack of sustainable financing mechanisms for higher education.

Mr Speaker, these problems are not peculiar to the higher education system in Zambia. Many developing countries in Africa and beyond have to deal with these issues. It is all in our interest to work together despite the magnitude and breadth of the problems. These problems cannot be solved through threats, illegal work stoppages or the holding of students as hostages by certain sections of the university community.

Mr Speaker, the Government has already begun to deal with these issues. However, it will be naïve to anticipate solutions to these problems in one financial year. It is, however, necessary that all the concerned parties work together to resolve these issues. It should also spur new thinking and problem solving. Unfortunately, the events at the CBU have not shown good evidence of ability towards problem solving. Threats and intimidation seem to have replaced rational thinking and dialogue.

Mr Speaker, it is our belief, however, that the recent events at the CBU do not represent the true character of our higher education system because we know that it still posses the ability and resolve to play its part in the development process of our country despite the challenges. However, this should not be sacrificed at the altar of problems.

Mr Speaker, the temporary closure of the CBU is regretted. I have instructed the CBU Council to resolve the issues as soon as possible so that we the teaching, learning and research can continue at this university. The CBU should come out of this crisis with renewed vigour and resolve to use dialogue, discussion, innovation and all the avenues of communication to ensure that the institution grows into a reputable learning and research centre.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Members are now free to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Prof. Lungwangwa (Nalikwanda): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has told the House that both the CBU Senate and Council have failed to dialogue with the CBU Academics Union. The Office of the hon. Minister is the office of appeal when dialogue has failed in the university. At the same time, the hon. Minister has told the parties involved to go back and dialogue. Can the hon. Minister clarify this confusion? The office of appeal has failed to intervene and provide arbitration. What dialogue is expected now between the various organs of the university management and the union?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, yes, the Office of the hon. Minister is the office of appeal. The hon. Minister runs the university through the council. My statement is very clear. I said that the CBU Senate failed to convince the union, and so the council was brought in to try to reason with the union. That, too, failed. What the hon. Minister has done now is to suspend the business of the university which, in any case, was already suspended by the withdrawal of teaching services by the union. The hon. Minister has instructed the council to look into the matter that the senate and council failed to resolve.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should note that we urged the staff to go back to work before we sat down to see whether their complaints could attended to. After all, life is about give and take. However, this did not materialise because the union failed to dialogue. I think that that is where the problem lies.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, during the discussions between the academic staff and your office, was a dispute declared before the stoppage of services? If there was no dispute declared, why was there work stoppage when there are rules to guide the system?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, on a lighter note, on this side of the House, we always say “ndiye ma question ayo.”

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, there was no …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Meaning what?

Dr Kaingu: Meaning such are the questions to ask.

Mr Speaker, no dispute was declared. That is why the strike is illegal. That is also the reason we insisted that the union tells its members to go back to class while dialogue continues. However, the union refused to dialogue. There was no need to withdraw their services since no dispute was declared.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga Central): Mr Speaker, what are the real causes of the boycott and disputes that have arisen at the Copperbelt University (CBU)? I have been informed that one of the reasons is that the university staff wanted the Vice-Chancellor removed. There was a similar situation at the University of Zambia (UNZA), but the Vice-Chancellor and his management team stepped down. What is so special about the Vice-Chancellor of the CBU?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, let me thank the hon. Member for Senanga Central for that good question. Yes, the problems are many. I do not want to disclose them to the public like the union did before we sat down to resolve the issues. I would like the hon. Member to know that each case should be judged on its merits. The problems at UNZA are different from those at the CBU. It is important to note that the problem at the CBU is that the union does not want to dialogue. To remove the Vice-Chancellor, we still need to sit down and dialogue. We are not going to be pressurised into make a decision. Tomorrow, people may demonstrate to have the hon. Member of Parliament for Senanga Central removed from Parliament and we shall be forced to do that if we make decisions without having any dialogue. I do not think that is how we should run institutions. Lack of dialogue is the only problem there is.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker …

Mr Mwiimbu: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to raise a point of order that hinges on the privileges of hon. Members of Parliament in this House.

Mr Speaker, in answering the question raised by the hon. Member for Senanga Central, the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education told the House that he is not obliged to disclose what led to the problems at the Copperbelt University (CBU) because he does not want the public to know.

Mr Speaker, Parliament is entitled to know the reasons behind the happenings at the CBU. Is he in order to say that he cannot give us the reasons because he does not want the public to know, when we are not members of the public, but hon. Members of Parliament?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that to the extent that he declined to disclose the reasons, he was out of order. Therefore, he must state those reasons as he responds to other questions.

Hon. Member for Lubansenshi may proceed.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, it is my understanding that whenever there is a dispute among parties, the hon. Minister is supposed to remain neutral and, perhaps, act as an arbitrator to try to find a solution to the problems.

Mr Speaker, I am aware that whilst the dispute at the Copperbelt University (CBU) was going on, one of the members of the CBU Council had his appointment revoked by. Why did the hon. Minister decide to side with one party instead of remaining neutral to the extent of revoking the appointment of one of the university councillors? Why did the hon. Minister behave that way?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, there is an understanding between the CBU Council and the ministry. When the council has difficulties with the running of the university, they should inform the hon. Minister and, together, they must solve the problems. However, before the council and the ministry could sit down to resolve the issues, the said member of the council released the letter that was written to me. We have an understanding that if somebody did what he did, that would amount to betrayal and the consequences of that action are what you have been reading about and seeing.

Sir, as regards the point of order that has been raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Monze Central, I was very clear that there are numerous problems at the university and what the hon. Member of Parliament for Senanga mentioned is one of them. However, I am not privy to the contents of the letter that was written to me because I have not read it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Dr Kaingu: The case is still being handled by the university council. You should understand how the university is run. It is not like running a chicken run. We are discussing a university here.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kaingu: The matter is still before the university council. It is important that those of us who are in leadership respect our institutions. I have given the university council an opportunity to solve this problem. If they fail, then, we will sit down with them and try to solve the matter.

Mr Speaker, the university is beset with so many problems that I am not able to itemise them. However, if the hon. Member insists, then, I could appear before this House tomorrow and read them out. I have already stated what led to the closure in my statement, which was that the union has refused to dialogue and the teaching staff have withdrawn their services. Technically, the university was closed and all I did was endorse the closure.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbulakulima (Chembe): Mr Speaker, my question is very moderate because I realise that when Zambia played away, they only had one goalkeeper instead of three. As a result, we had to hold our breath.

Laughter
Mr Mbulakulima: I hope that Chasefu is not calling so that this House is …

Mr Speaker, you have mentioned that the main reason for the closure of the institution is that the CBU Academic Union has become intransigent. What will you do if the union still refuses to dialogue? Further, what is the quick solution to the speedy opening of the institution, as you have put it?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, we shall cross that bridge when we reach it. However, I want to assure the House that all efforts are being made to ensure that the university opens as soon as possible. Leave this to us. We are aware that the students are disturbed and that they must go back to class. We also know the people who are causing problems at the university, and I am sure they will be made to dialogue. If they refuse to dialogue voluntarily, then, maybe, they will be asked to so involuntarily.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Lubezhi: Mr Speaker, three years ago, there was not such turmoil in institutions of higher learning. The hon. Minister, in his statement, commended the staff in the School of Medicine and School of Graduate Studies for not going on strike. Does the teaching staff in these schools have the same conditions of service as those in other schools that have gone on strike?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala is being economical with the truth. The Copperbelt University (CBU) and the University of Zambia (UNZA) have been experiencing problems. It is shameful we are being given problems by institutions where we there are learned and educated people. I would not mind if it were the miners who were causing these problems, but these are lectures who are supposed to be the role models of the students. What are they demonstrating to the students …

Mr Mwiimbu interjected.

Dr Kaingu: … with this kind of behaviour? I think the question by the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala is meant to continue inciting people at the university. She is trying to be a part of the problem instead of the solution.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: As hon. Members of Parliament, we need to help these institutions. Whatever the salary difference may be between teaching staff of the School of Medicine and those of the School of Graduate Studies, we, as informed and educated people, need to sit down and dialogue. We should not use threats and illegal strikes as means of achieving what we want. That is what is fundamental to my statement.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Fundamental as that may be to your statement, you have not answered the question regarding the conditions of service for those sections of the institution that have not been closed and those that have been closed. Just provide an answer to that.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I can see, this is making my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala, happy.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Understandably so because the people out there want an answer from the hon. Minister, and he should provide it now.

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, those of us who have studied human resource …

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: … do not discuss people’s conditions of service in public. I cannot stand here and discuss people’s conditions of service because that is unethical.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Human resource qualification aside, are the conditions of service the same or not? Provide an answer.

Dr Kaingu: Thank you for the questions from Hon. Mr Speaker.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

My job is to ensure that hon. Ministers answer questions that have been properly put to them. So, just answer.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I am not able to state the conditions of service for the lecturers in all the schools at the Copperbelt University (CBU). It requires investigations and I am not in a position to investigate now. If the hon. Member wants to know whether the conditions of service are the same, maybe, she should file in a question and we shall be able to state whether the conditions of service are the same at a later date.

Sir, I would like to use this opportunity to thank the academic staff at the School of Medicine and Graduate Studies for continuing to offer their services to the students.
The Deputy Chairperson: I have to help the hon. Member solicit an answer. Do you know whether the conditions of service are uniform or not?

Interruptions

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, we are discussing conditions of service for lecturers at all the schools at the university. What the House is soliciting from me is an assumption. There is a likelihood that the conditions of service could be the same or different. For me to give impeccable evidence, I must come back to the House with a researched answer. It is very easy for me to say yes or no, but what the House needs an impeccable answer.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: I note that your technocrats are not here.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I do not know whether or not my contribution will be accepted. Having been Minister in charge of education, I am aware that a professor in the School of Medicine is the same as a professor in the School of Education and that the conditions of service are the same. Anyhow, I am not the Minister in charge of education at the moment, but I thought the House would benefit from that contribution.

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that he did not read the letter. Later on, he said that there are many problems, one of which has been cited by the hon. Member for Senanga. May I know whether these many problems had not been presented to the various authorities in order to ask for resolutions or solutions before this impasse in June?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, sometimes, I am forced to be humble when answering questions such as the one by my colleague who claims to have been Minister in charge of education.

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I beg your serious indulgence in this matter. Is my colleague, the hon. Minister of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education in order to state that I am claiming to have been in charge of education when he knows very well that I was one of the few hon. Ministers who were in charge of education in 2005 when there was no leakage in the Grade 12 Examinations? I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: The serious ruling is that the hon. Minister was definitely not in order to doubt that you had, at one time or another, served honorably as Minister in charge of education.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member who used to be in charge of education must know that …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Dr Kaingu: I will cane you ...

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: … with words.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I note that the caning is with words, and is between traditional cousins. Continue to provide the answer, hon. Minister.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member, who was in charge of education, must know that even professors have different experience and cannot have the same conditions of service. What he is trying to tell the House is completely misleading. We know that even two professors who are teaching at the same university have different conditions of service.

I thank you, Sir.

Prof. Lungwangwa: On a point of order.

Laughter

Mrs Mazoka (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I have even forgotten what I wanted to say.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: She is laughing at her husband.

Laughter

Mrs Mazoka: No, I am not laughing at him.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The debate is interesting. Hon. Member, pose your question.

Laughter

Mrs Mazoka: Mr Speaker, since the students at the Copperbelt University (CBU) were not responsible for the events that led to the closure of the university, what logistical steps have been taken to facilitate for their transportation from the university to their homes? When the university re-opens, how are the students going to get back to school since the closure was not of their making?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, that is a very good question. Such should be the questions from hon. Members of Parliament.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: All the questions posed by hon. Members of Parliament are good and in order.

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I was clear that the students have been held hostage because of the action of the union. It is very unfortunate that they have to suffer the consequences of the behaviour of the union. This is the more reason we took up to ten days to allow for dialogue. Those who have had an opportunity to run a university are aware that the university has to be closed if teaching services are withdrawn for a maximum of three days. However, in this case, we went up to ten days to try to persuade the union to enter into a dialogue so that we could solve their problems. So, hon. Member of Parliament for Pemba, I am afraid the students will suffer the consequences of the behaviour of the academic staff.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the number of students who were arrested by the police and whether they have been released without any charge?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, again, the blame falls on the union because they incited the students and used them as guinea pigs for them to try and get what they wanted from the management. I believe more than 300 students were arrested and 150 were detained and only released when they paid the admission of guilt fine.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kazabu (Nkana): Mr Speaker, it is a fact that the closure of the Copperbelt University (CBU) is a cost to the nation, the parents of the students and the students themselves. As a matter of conflict resolution, would it not have been prudent and beneficial for the Vice-Chancellor of the CBU, who is at the centre of the conflict, to be sent on leave in order to restore order and allow the ministry time to resolve the problem?

Dr Kaingu: Sir, I have already stated, in my statement, that the strike action is somber and regrettable. It is not something that would excite anybody in my position. What the hon. Member has failed to understand is that had the union gone into dialogue with the university council, probably, the suggestion that he has put across could have been reached. However, what led to the closure of the university are the demands made by the union to the management of the university. If we allow situations where anybody can withdraw their services so that he/she can benefit in one way or the other, then, as a country, we are losing direction. So, the appeal, which has since elapsed, was that the union should engage the council. If the two parties failed to dialogue, the hon. Minister could have come in. However, I do not want to circumvent the responsibilities of the council and start dealing with the problem at the university myself. We need to respect our institutions. If people fail to dialogue, these are the consequences and they are regrettable.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kalila (Lukulu East): Sir, volatility and unrest in institutions of learning has become entrenched and is the rule rather than the exception. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, being a man of great credentials and at the helm of the education sector, what is going on in his mind and what dialogue is taking place in the ministry to try to craft a long-lasting solution to these perennial problems?

Dr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, it is not necessarily in my mind. This is a serious problem that requires all of us to solve. Hon. Members of this House came up with the Higher Education Act No. 4 of 2013, which states that the hon. Minister should appoint a council to run a university. You are now telling me to use my mind …

Laughter

Dr Kaingu: … to run the university, and yet you are the same people who gave me the Act that I should use. What is important is for us to exhaust all the options and find lasting solutions as I said in my statement. Those of us who have read books will recall that our forefathers used to walk long distances from here to Fort Hare University in Salisbury to attend university. Here is a situation where the people who are at the universities do not take the advantage to read and learn so that they can quickly graduate and go and look after themselves, and be guardians and parents.

Mr Speaker, sometimes, we have a situation where students do not seem to appreciate what I have just said. However, this time around, it is shameful that the role models of students are the ones who have gone on strike. So, what are they teaching the students? Anyway, I want to assure the Chairperson of your Committee on Education, Science and that we are working very hard not only to come up with modalities and mechanisms of keeping our children in school, but also convince them that universities are places of learning.

Sir, I had a chat with some of them and they reviewed the amount of money they get in allowances. The House may wish to know that some of the Government-sponsored students get as much as K3,500 per month, and yet there are people in employment who do not get that kind of money. It is surprisingly that within a week of the Government not paying the allowances, the students are already complaining. It is a situation where they want to clean the pockets before the next pay. Some of them may not get this kind of money when they graduate. This is a big problem. These are some of the problems affecting the operations of the university, but we shall solve them.

I thank you, Sir.

_________

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

DEATHS AT KABOMBPO SECONDRY SCHOOL

598. Mr Lufuma (Kabompo West) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) whether the Government was aware that, at least, three pupils at Kabompo Secondary School had died;

(b) if so, what the cause of the deaths was; and

The Minister of Health (Dr Kasonde): Mr Speaker, with your kind permission, I would like to answer all the three concerns through the statement that I have prepared.

Sir, allow me to thank the hon. Member for Kabompo for being so alert as to notice such an important occurrence in his constituency. I would like to urge him to continue to be vigilant and draw our attention whenever such events occur.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to thank the staff of the Ministries of Health, Community Development, Mother and Child Health, Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education and other departments who spent the holiday weekend working to in order to solve the problems in Kabompo.

Sir, I wish to confirm that there is an outbreak of meningococcal meningitis at Kabompo High School in Kabompo District of the North-Western Province. Meningococcal meningitis is caused by a bacteria called neisseria meningitidis.

Mr Speaker, meningococcal meningitis is an acute bacterial disease that is characterised by sudden onset of fever, intense headache, nausea and, often, vomiting, and a stiff neck. A rash occasionally appears, particularly in light-skinned individuals.

Sir, meningococcal meningitis …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Dr Kasonde: Before business was suspended, I was saying that meningococcal meningitis is the main form of bacterial meningitis that causes epidemics in Africa and has remained a public health challenge. The people at particular risk are children under 5 years, young adults between 14 and 25 years and adults above 55 years.

Mr Speaker, the disease is transmitted by direct contact, including respiratory droplets from the nose and throat of infected people. However, it is not as airborne as influenza, for example, because it requires physical contact between droplets and the individual. Human-to-human transmission is the main cause of fast spread of meningitis outbreaks. The incubation period is 2 -10 days but, commonly, 3-4 days.

The disease is confirmed by laboratory examination of the cerebral spinal fluid obtained through lumbar puncture and the identification of the bacteria. Meningococcal meningitis is treated with antibiotics.

Mr Speaker, early case detection and prompt treatment are key to preventing fatality. Unfortunately, any delay in presenting the patient to a health facility can lead to death, as the disease is aggressive and, therefore, can kill within a short time.

Mr Speaker, having given that background, allow me to address the outbreak of the disease at Kabompo Secondary School. A total of six cases were reported at the school, with the first one being on 20th June, 2015, while the sixth one was on 3rd July, 2015. Unfortunately, the first three cases resulted in loss of life. Apart from the three deaths, three other pupils from the same school were admitted to Kabompo District Hospital for suspected meningitis. The laboratory in Solwezi examined the specimens and confirmed one case of neisseria meningitidis.

Sir, a meeting was held on 4th July, 2015 at the District Commissioner’s Office at which it was resolved to close the school to avoid further spread of the disease among the pupils and to control riots by pupils who alleged that witchcraft was involved.
Laughter

Dr Kasonde: The meeting was attended by the District Epidemic Preparedness Committee (DEPC) members, all heads of Government departments, the Provincial Surveillance Officer, some members of the Kabompo High School Parent/Teachers’ Association (PTA) and the school administration authorities.

Sir, it is a matter of concern that pupils in this century are still concerned about witchcraft. The following are the measures that have been put in place to contain the spread of the disease in the area:

(a) the District Community Medical Office (DCMO) has instituted case management of the cases by isolation and treatment;

(b) the Provincial Medical Officer (PMO) and DCMO have instituted screening of contacts to the cases. So far, fifty-five pupils have been screened and four referred to the hospital for further assessment;

(d) the district has commenced community sensitisation on meningitis in English and local languages;

(e) the school has been closed for two weeks;

(f) the DCMO and the school are informing all pupils from the school to report to the nearest facility for chemo prophylaxis to prevent them from developing the disease; and

(g) the Ministry of Health, in collaboration with the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health and the World Health Organisation (WHO), has continued to closely monitor the situation and provide the necessary support.

Mr Speaker, my ministry will liaise with the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education on when the school can be re-opened. I wish to emphasise that transmission of the disease is by direct contact, including respiratory droplets from the nose and throat of infected people. In view of this, it is important to:

(a) practice hand hygiene, as this disease is transmitted by direct contact;

(b) practice cough etiquette so that open-mouth coughing is avoided; and above all and

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, in the first instance, allow me to convey my sincere condolences to the families that have lost their loved ones to this deadly disease that the hon. Minister has described. Secondly, allow me to thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate statement on the various steps that the Government is taking to ensure that the disease does not spread.

Sir, I would like to assume that there is a vaccine that can be used to ensure that the wider public is not affected by the release of the pupils into the general public. I say so because the school has closed and the disease is spread, as you say, by contact. The pupils are going back to their homes and, most likely, spread the disease among the general public. Is there a vaccine that can be used? If so, has it been made available to the pupils from Kabompo Secondary School? We assume that almost everybody was, or might have been affected.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, yes, there are vaccines. Unfortunately, the condition is not one, but three in the sense that when broken down into the types of the meningococcal, there are three or four of them. Therefore, the vaccines are those that apply to the specific component that has been found to be the cause in any given incident, That is the kind of typing that is being done now, and I am sure the results will be out soon. When that is done, the specific vaccine for the specific condition is then applied, if necessary, to the masses. It is possible to use a multiple vaccine in certain instances. However, the world practice is to come to that only when the problem cannot be resolved by the administration of treatment to all those who are sick and those with whom they have been in contact. That is the action that is being taken now. However, let me assure the House that the WHO has offered to supply the vaccines. So, we do not have a concern about the availability of vaccines. What we are concerned about is to ensure that the types of vaccines that we use are particularly suitable for the condition in Kabompo. We are in that mode of action, and I have no doubt that this will be an effective strategy to adopt.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Konga (Chavuma): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate statement. I would like to find out if the district or provincial surveillance team has established the source of the bacteria.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, thank you for that question. It is a question that is always asked when outbreaks of this type have occurred in Zambia and other African countries. It is very difficult to establish where the bacteria started from. What we know is that where there is crowding, one case will lead, very quickly, to other cases. Therefore, the focus is on the circumstances around the individual or individuals who have been found with the bacteria. So, that is the line that we take. As for the source or where it exactly emanated from, we have not been able to establish that. However, it is not something that we plan to do.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for that elaborate answer. The hon. Minister has offered to give a statement instead of just providing an answer. You know the incubation period of the disease and that one of the pupils tested positive to it. Does it not worry you that now that you have released the pupils to the public, the problem may be much bigger than what it currently is?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I might just wish to clarify that, initially, five hundred students out of seven hundred left the school after rioting on the complaint that the disease was due to witchcraft. I think it is a matter of serious concern that they should have brought in the issue of witchcraft. If it was due to witchcraft, – that is if it exists, then, how does that relate to the school windows that they broke. How can witchcraft be resolved by breaking windows? It was a very sad event. The students left own their own. They were not sent away. The solution is to follow them wherever they are and ensure that they get the treatment as soon as they are found because all the health centres and hospitals has the antibiotic. That is the correct version of the story.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali (Senanga): Mr Speaker, may I find out how often the hon. Minister is briefed on these matters to ensure that there are no further outbreaks so that we can safely say that the disease has been contained.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, as I have stated in previous statements, there is committee at provincial level, which is the National Emergency Preparedness Committee for Epidemics. There is also one at district level. These are supposed to frequently review the conditions in the whole district, province and country. That is why there is a Department of Surveillance and Research in the Ministry of Health. There is also a national committee which I chair and my which my colleague, the hon. Minister for Community Development, Mother and Child Health participates in or is represented once a month. This ensures that we are constantly abreast of any development of this or other nature of an epidemic of possible consequence. I am sure that this arrangement is working well. I would like it to continue and become stronger.

I thank you, Sir.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo (Mumbwa): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that very clear statement. Is it not rather epidemiologically unusual to have this kind of outbreak, if you may call it so, during this time of the year, and not during the hot months of August, September and October when it is common to have such outbreaks?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I am sure that the hon. Member will realise that once the disease has occurred, it requires action regardless of whether it fits in various patterns or not. Nevertheless, I agree with him that we are used to this kind of epidemiological event occurring during the hotter season. That is correct. However, this has no impact on the action to be taken in the event that it should occur at any other time.

I thank you, Sir.
LUSAKA CITY COUNCIL HOUSING STOCK

599. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) what the total housing stock for the Lusaka City Council (LCC) was before the Government decided to sell the Houses in 1996;

(b) what the current housing stock for the council was;

(d) what action was taken on sitting tenants who failed to purchase the houses.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr N. Banda): Mr Speaker, the total housing stock for the LCC before the sell of houses in 1996 was 13,460.

Mr Speaker, the current stock of houses for the LCC is forty-six. This includes the ten houses that the council built after the sale.

Mr Speaker, currently, there are ten houses on rent.

Sir, all the tenants finished paying for the houses except for thirty at the Chinika Hostels who were not offered to buy the houses.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that answer. Before the sale of houses, the LCC had 13,460 housing stock and there are now only forty-six houses after the sale. Before the sale, the LCC was economically viable. With that background, may I find out whether the Government has any plans to assist the council to build more houses for rent so that the council can increase its financial base and help to stabilise the rentals on the open market.

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is right when he says that the LCC would only be relieved of its financial difficulties if we helped them to put up more housing units. The ministry is waiting to see the future of the housing units’ projects for the LCC.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lufuma: Mr Speaker, after the sale of the huge housing stock for the LCC, I would assume that the money was used to build more housing stock. How many were built using the resources from the housing stock that was sold?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that in 1996, the housing units were sold at a song. Yes, the local authority had a vision to invest in modern housing units. In my statement I mentioned ten housing units wee constructed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the problem of housing has been with us for some time. I remember the then Minister of Local Government and Housing, Hon. Masebo, talked about housing bonds for the Lusaka City Council (LCC) and other councils. What has happened with that programme?

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Phiri): Mr Speaker, I think Hon. Masebo should be protected because Government is a continuation of office. However, to answer the hon. Member’s question, we have had plans in the past. At the moment, we are working very closely with the United Nations (UN) Habitat in developing a Housing Policy which is almost complete and will be unveiled soon. This will provide guidelines for the LCC and other councils for building houses from where they can generate revenue so that they can be self sufficient some day.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to recast the earlier question. Could the hon. Minister help us understand the Housing Policy that is being implemented in an effort to reduce the deficit in the housing sector?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the deficit in housing stands at a colossal 2 million houses. This is a worrying figure because the younger generation, as you know, is finding Lusaka unfriendly in terms of housing because we have not done much. We are getting help from the United Nations (UN) Habitat Programme and have also engaged various councils to produce a policy that will guide us. Currently, there is no Housing Policy. Otherwise, why would we be wasting money to engage experts to come up with one? The Housing Policy is being awaited keenly so that it can guide the councils on the way forward.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Antonio (Kaoma Central): Mr Speaker, for the sake of clarity, is the two million housing deficit for Lusaka only or it is countrywide?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, this figure is for the whole country but, as you can expect, the cities bear the most effects of the lack of houses.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

KEEP ZAMBIA CLEAN AND HEALTHY CAMPAIGN PROGRAMME

600. Mr Mutale (Kwacha) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) how successful the “Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign” Programme had been from inception to-date;

(b) why refuse collection appeared to be a big challenge countrywide; and

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the “Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign” Programme was especially successful in the early years because the local authorities received grants for the campaign from the Central Government. The idea was to jumpstart the process and then let the local authorities sustain the campaign at local level. Currently, most local authorities do not have the capacity to sustain the “Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme”. In addressing this issue, the Government is now institutionalising the programme. Currently, we are working with the local authorities and various stakeholders to engage their members in garbage collection and general cleanliness of their trading surroundings.

Mr Speaker, refuse collection appears to be a challenge because it requires huge initial investment to ensure that councils are able to carry out sustainable solid waste management. Local authorities do not have adequate human and financial resources, and infrastructure to deal with the management of solid waste. There is also inadequate awareness by the citizenry on sound management of waste and its impact on human health and the environment.

Sir, there is generally a poor attitude among Zambians as regards solid waste management. Firstly, there is a challenge in getting the communities to accept to pay for waste management services. Secondly, there is a prevalent behaviour/mindset of indiscriminate disposal of waste. Lastly, there is insufficient capacity for the recovery and recycling of various waste streams such as plastics and bottles.

Mr Speaker, the Government has plans to improve general solid waste management in the country so that the system is sustainable in the future. To start with, the Government has procured ten refuse trucks and hundred skip bin containers for cities, including Lusaka, Ndola, Kitwe and Livingstone, and municipal councils such as Solwezi, Chililabombwe, Kasama, Chinsali, Choma, Chipata and Kabwe.

In addition, the ministry is planning to conduct public and media awareness to address the bad attitude towards waste management among the public. The Government is also encouraging councils to outsource waste collection to private waste companies through franchise contracts. Further, the ministry is in the process of developing a policy to ensure that the sub-sector is clearly guided on the necessary actions to take to improve the situation.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how much sensitisation the Government has done to ensure that refuse is disposed of properly, and not dumped anyhow. How much knowledge will the Government impart in the people?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, public sensitisation programmes on the dangers of the indiscriminate disposal of garbage in our environment has been going on for a long time and, probably, the local authorities need to take more responsibility than the ministry. As a ministry, we have, in our budget, support to the local authorities. For example, I indicated earlier that the ministry purchased refuse trucks and distributed them to the local authorities. All this was in an effort to try to get the local authorities to disseminate information on refuse disposal in their districts. These are on-going programmes.

I thank you, Sir

Mr Mucheleka (Lubansenshi): Mr Speaker, the “Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign” Programme was initiated by Hon. Masebo, that gallant daughter of Zambia, in 2002.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, however, the programme came to an end when she was removed from the ministry. The trucks that the hon. Minister referred to have broken down. Is it possible for the hon. Minister to carry out an assessment on how much may be required to repair the trucks?

Sir, the truck for Luwingu District, in Lubansenshi Constituency, has also broken down. Can the ministry find money to enable to have the trucks repaired so that they start collecting refuse in our cities and districts?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, those are valid observations. Let me contribute to what Hon. Mucheleka has just said. The success of the “Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy Campaign” Programme can only be established after basic research has been conducted. However, before this is done, we should pay tribute to the initiators and, in this case, he mentioned Hon. Masebo.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, you will agree with me that the major achievement of this programme is the change of the mindset of Zambians. I think that we have lessened the temptation of throwing refuse from taxis or mini bus windows as a result of this programme. Unfortunately, it was not sustained because, as you have heard from the hon. Deputy Minister, the Government bought ten refuse trucks to service all the cities and municipal councils and 100 skip bins initially. That was truly a drop in the ocean. We wish that we could sustain this programme. Let me say that the councils have been encouraged to keep up with the momentum although I know that they are seriously constrained because of a lack of resources and human capacity to run it. Nevertheless, that does not mean that it has been completely forgotten. We also encourage councils to outsource waste collection.
Mr Speaker, there are also on-going discussions with the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) to hold accountable institutions that produce materials which end up being the bulk of the refuse. In addition, we are trying to increase capacity for the recovery and recycling of plastics and bottles. Various studies are being conducted on the recycling of plastics and bottles both locally and on the continent. As the hon. Deputy Minister said, we are also working on guidelines that will possibly lead to developing a policy to give our councils direction so that all their initiatives can be anchored in one document. This will enable all councils to speak the same language. This is an enormous responsibility that has been overlooked since 2003. So, we have a mammoth task. I can only thank the hon. Members who have ventured into waste management by buying trucks and other refuse collection utility vehicles. As the money flows into the ministry, we hope that we can revisit the programme and make it a priority because, after all, having refuse everywhere means having diseases everywhere. I am sitting next to the hon. Minister of Health, and I do not want to give him another opportunity to give a ministerial statement on the causes of all sorts of diseases in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, one of the major contributing factors to the unsightly environment in Zambia is the use of plastic bags. Is the ministry considering coming up with a regulation to ensure that plastic bags are banned? If they are not going to be banned, can the ministry come up with a regulation that can provide for the production of plastics that are reusable, and that can be kept by families, like it is in done in other countries where shoppers either bring their own plastic bag or are charged for a new one? Hence, people are discouraged from using any type of plastic bags for shopping.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, that was well-elaborated. I said that discussions are underway with the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA) to hold accountable, institutions that produce materials which end up as the bulk of the refuse that we see. The discussions will continue until we can zero-in on specific issues. We will make it known to the nation when those discussions are over.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Namugala (Mafinga): Mr Speaker, in the Zambia Environmental Management Act, there is a provision called the Extended Producer Responsibility. This provision entails that the producers of, for instance, opaque beer, must ensure that the disposal of the package in which the product is in is in line with environmental regulations. Is the hon. Minister not aware of this provision?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the ministry is aware of this provision in the Act. This is why we are holding serious consultations with the Zambia Environmental Management Agency (ZEMA). The drafting of the Extended Producer Responsibility legislation is long overdue, and we would like to speed up the process.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, Senanga has not been spared from this problem. Garbage collection is quite an issue there too. I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister has managed to sell the idea to the private sector so that it can be involved in recycling waste. Have you tried to find some private partners to help you recycle waste so that people can see money in garbage? That garbage could be sent to recycling plants.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, advanced negotiations have taken place with local and international waste management institutions. We shall let the nation know how far the negotiations will go. We are treating this as matter of extreme urgency.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, it is important to keep Zambia clean. We have seen that when an hon. Minister takes the lead to ensure that the “Keep Zambia Clean and Healthy” Programme is implemented, this happens.

Sir, when the late President, Mr Sata, was Minister of Local Government and Housing, may his soul rest in peace, he ensured that those who dropped urine in public places were arrested.

Hon. Opposition Member: Drop what?

Mr Muntanga: Whatever it is.

Sir, Mr Sata went round to enforce this by-law, not to mention Hon. Masebo or Hon. Nkandu Luo who made things move when they were in office. Hon. Minister, which town have you visited to ensure that the “Keep Zambia Clean Campaign” Programme is implemented? Have you been to Lumumba Road to see the dirt that is there so that you ensure that there is seriousness in keeping Zambia clean?

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, this problem is all over Zambia. I do not have to visit any town. The problem is so plain that we need to take drastic measures. Talking about Lumumba Road, there are already initiatives being employed on the ground to try to mitigate the challenges of people selling on the streets. I can confidently talk about that because both the Opposition and the Patriotic Front (PF) are agreed that this problem must be managed properly …

Mr Muntanga interjected.

Dr Phiri: …. until we find an alternative to street vending.

Sir, each hon. Minister has a responsibility, but be mindful when you compare hon. Ministers. There has been a large turnover of hon. Ministers and Permanent Secretaries over the years. So, some programmes suffer in the process. However, that does not mean that I do not see this as a big responsibility that the ministry should carry.
I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mtolo (Chipata Central): Mr Speaker, sometime in 2011, Hon. Prof. Nkandu Luo told this House that the Governemnt was seriously working towards grafting a piece of legislation that would restrict the use of plastics in Zambia. Honestly, should we still assume that the consultations are still ongoing two years down the line? Has the hon. Minister not found any handover notes that can help him continue from where his predecessors left?

Sir, may the hon. Minister clarify whether Hon. Prof. Nkandu Luo started this or not.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, the responsibility of any hon. Minister in any ministry is to show that the Patriotic Front (PF) Manifesto is being implemented. That is a classic example of you trying to draw me into stating which hon. Minister left what and so on and so forth. Running a government is a continuous process. We should only remind each other about the need to take drastic actions. I am grateful that you have reminded me of the progress that was made, but I do not think I am the impediment to any progress. However, if I am, I will quickly correct myself.

Sir, this business of making comparisons between hon. Minister will not do us any good. At the same time, we, as hon. Ministers, learn from what others who have passed through the ministries did. I am good at learning, as you saw from yesterday’s performance. I learnt a great lesson that will help me settle down in this area.

I thank you, Sir.

NURSING SCHOOL IN MBALA DISTRICT

601. Mr Simfukwe (Mbala) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) whether the Government had any plans to establish a school of nursing in Mbala District; and

(b) if so, when the plans would be implemented.

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health has plans to establish a nursing school in Mbala District. The House may wish to note that an assessment on the current technical requirements necessary to establish this facility has already been conducted.

Sir, implementation of the plans will commence as soon as the Government secures the necessary funding towards the establishment of the nursing school. However, it is important to note that this is not a priority at the moment.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, has land been identified for the construction of the nursing school and where is it located?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, the issue of land for the school is not a serious one because the intention is to attach the school of nursing to Mbala General Hospital. I am sure that the hon. Member is concern is to ensure that the school is built while he is still in office.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Let me assure him that the rumour about me wanting to stand for the Mbala Seat is totally erroneous

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: All he has to do is join the Patriotic Front (PF) and he can retain his Seat.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, in response to a question on the shortage of nurses that was posed on the Floor of this House, the hon. Minister indicated that he would hasten the replacement of nurses by increasing the number of training schools such as the one under discussion and several others in the country. However, he is now saying that the construction of a nursing school in Mbala is not a priority.

Mr Livune: Question!

Mr Muntanga: Hon. Minister, are you not going back on your own statement that there is need to have more training institutions for nurses and that the institution in Mbala needs to be built immediately?

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to clarify that when we talk about prioritising we are talking about it in comparison with something else. In our strategy to increase the number of nurses, step one has been to expand the existing schools of nursing in order to rapidly increase the enrollment figures.

Sir, only a couple of months ago, I met all the heads of the twenty-six public schools of nursing in order to ensure that we follow-up on our instruction to increase the intake as it is. At the same time, we have started to build new nursing schools. For that reason, we are going to be commissioning the school of nursing in Senanga on 23rd July, 2015.

Mr Speaker, we have already increased the intake at the school of nursing in Kasama, which is near Mbala. We have also started expanding a school of midwifery nearby. Therefore, when I talk about prioritising, I am talking about the relative urgency of expanding the enrollment compared to the option of building. However, we are doing both.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Health confirm that he is actually blackmailing the hon. Member for Mbala that the School of Nursing in Mbala could only be built once the hon. Member for Mbala defects to the Patriotic Front (PF)? Has Bangweulu Hospital in Luwingu not been built perhaps because I have refused to defect to the PF?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kasonde: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that the hon. Member for Lubansenshi is blackmailing me.

Laughter

Dr Kasonde: Sir, the hospital that he is talking about has absolutely nothing to do with what he has alleged. His intention to move to the PF is perfectly welcome. I have no quarrel whatsoever with the hon. Member’s intention.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

TOWNSHIP ROADS IN NAKONDE

602. Mr Sichula (Nakonde) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a) when the tarring of township roads in Nakonde would commence;

(b) who the contractor for the project was;

(d) what the time frame for the completion of the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Ching’imbu): Mr Speaker, the ministry is planning to rehabilitate the Nakonde Township roads in the 2016 Annual Work Plan.

Sir, the contractor will be announced after the works have been procured and the contract awarded. The cost will be determined after the contract has been signed. The time frame will also be known after the contract has been signed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sichula: Mr Speaker, how many kilometres of the road will be constructed in this project?

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, that will be determined once the consultant is on the ground.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chipungu (Rufunsa): Mr Speaker, what are the guidelines for the tarring of township roads? What should I do if I want the township roads in my constituency to be graded or tarred? I I just hear about this programme going on in other districts.

Mr Ching’imbu: Mr Speaker, the local authority is supposed to request for road projects to be considered for funding in a particular area.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simfukwe: Mr Speaker, I know that the works on township roads in the province are almost starting but, the delay is usually caused by the Treasury. What is the Government doing to ensure that the Treasury does not become a stumbling block?

Mr N. Banda: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing always pushes for the Ministry of Finance to finance the projects that have been started. The Northern Province is one of the provinces where we expect funding for all the towns whose projects are almost starting. There should be no interruption if the Ministry of Finance will be ready to fund the projects.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we have heard about the need to tar the township roads. We have also heard that we need to apply for our township roads to be tarred. I believe that the people of Nakonde Township applied just like we all did. The hon. Deputy Minister has further said that funding for the Northern Province should not be a problem. May I know from the hon. Minister if the issue of township roads, including the ones in Kalomo, is just a story? When are you going tar the township roads that were applied for? I would like to know if you have asked the hon. Minister of Finance for funds.

Dr Phiri: Mr Speaker, a Pandora’s Box has been opened …

Laughter

Dr Phiri: … arising from a very innocent question from the hon. Member for Nakonde. This also informs me that we have not availed the hon. Members of Parliament with the information they deserve on township roads. Let me propose that we do that for the sake of this session and give guidelines to hon. Members of Parliament on what they should do in order to have their township roads tarred. I seek your indulgence that this be done because this business of saying we are waiting for funding from the Ministry of Finance will not do us any good. I will give you a general picture of what has been done and the direction we are going.

I thank you, Sir.

ORPHANS AND VULNERABLE CHILDREN IN LUWINGU DISTRICT

603. Mr Mucheleka asked the Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health:

(a) how much money was disbursed to the orphans and vulnerable children (OVCs) in Luwingu District in 2013 and 2014;

(b) on what activities the money was spent; and

The Deputy Minister of Community Development, Mother and Child Health (Mr Chisala): Mr Speaker, Luwingu District received K83,330 in 2013 and K29,134 in 2014, bringing the total for activities under the Public Welfare Assistance Scheme (PWAS) to K112,464. Of this amount, K30,494 was disbursed directly for education, clothing, food and health support to OVCs in the district. Some of the pupils from Luwingu attend school in Kasama and Mporokoso. The support was for children at the following schools:

School District No. of Beneficiaries in 2013 No. of Beneficiaries in 2014

Male Female Male Female

Luwingu Day Luwingu 1 1
Secondary

Luwingu Boarding Luwingu 12 11 12 11
Secondary

Katopola Primary Luwingu 1 1

Chileshe Chepela Kasama 1 1
Special

Mporokoso Mporokoso 2 2 2 2
Secondary

Sir, the following schools benefitted from the Public Welfare Assistance Scheme (PWAS):

School Constituency No. of Pupils

Male Female

Luwingu Day Secondary Lubansenshi 1

Luwingu Boarding Secondary Lubansenshi 12 11

Katopola Secondary Lubansenshi 1

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mucheleka: Mr Speaker, I appreciate the response by the hon. Deputy Minister which was quite elaborate. However, my concern is the reduction in the funding. In 2013 and 2014, there was a drastic reduction in the funding, and yet the number of OVCs had increased. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the reason the ministry reduced the funding to Luwingu District and Lubansenshi Constituency in particular, in view of the increase in the number of OVCs?

Mr Chisala: Sir, the reduction in funding was as a result of the financial constraints that the ministry was faced with.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

___________

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON DELEGATED LEGISLATION

Mr I. Banda (Lumezi): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the Report of the Committee on Delegated Legislation for the Fourth Session of the Eleventh National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 8th July, 2015.

The Deputy Chairperson: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr Mutale (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, firstly, allow me to pay my condolences to the bereaved family of the late Hon. Humphrey I. Mwanza, the people of Solwezi West and the North-Western Province. Hon. Mwanza was a member of your Committee. Some of the contents of this report are part of his contribution. As a Committee, we will miss him greatly. May his soul rest in peace.

Sir, let me now present the report. Allow me to pay tribute to the hon. Members of your Committee for their dedication and co-operation which enabled your Committee to effectively carry out its functions.

Mr Speaker, during the session under review, your Committee was able to consider all the seventy Statutory Instruments (SI) issued in 2014, and the eighteen that were issued up to March, 2015. This is commendable as your Committee is almost up to date with the consideration of SIs. I am confident that your Office will continue to facilitate the work of your Committee so that it can maintain this record.

Sir, allow me to bring to the attention of this House some highlights of the work of your Committee during the session.

Mr Speaker, with regard to Statutory Instrument No. 63 of 2015 on the Public Service Retirement Age Regulations, 2014, your Committee noted that the promulgation of this SI has been met with strong, albeit mixed reactions from the various sections of society.

In this regard, your Committee analysed the SI more closely and obtained views from the various stakeholders. The following were some of the concerns raised by stakeholders:

(a) statistics show that Zambia has a youthful population with high levels of youth unemployment. As such, the plight of the unemployed youth should have been taken into consideration before such a measure was taken, as it will result in younger people being denied an opportunity to either enter the Public Service or rise through promotion as the older generation would continue to hold onto the senior positions;

(ii) a lot of young people end up in unskilled casual employment with poor safety and no long-term benefits due to a lack of opportunities. So, the SI is likely to exacerbate the problem and contribute to the brain drain; and

(iii) since Zambia is faced with a low life expectancy, many employees are likely to die before reaching pensionable age or soon thereafter.

Mr Speaker, in his submission to your Committee, the Secretary to the Cabinet informed your Committee that the rationale for the promulgation of the regulations was to implement part of the Pension Reforms which the Government has been undertaking since 2011. He explained that the regulations were a necessary first step in addressing the problem that had plagued Zambia’s pension system, especially the actuarial deficit within the broader context of addressing the well-known destitution of pensioners. In short, the regulations were aimed at contributing towards ensuring that the pension system became sustainable in the long run.

Sir, your Committee further learnt that according to the International Labour Organisation (ILO) Actuarial Report on Zambia, Zambians are living longer and spending more time in retirement. The post retirement life expectancy at the current retirement age is 23.6 years for females and 20 years for males, and is expected to increase to 26.4 years and 22.3 years respectively by 2030. If the retirement age were to remain at 55 years, the pension schemes would be financially unsustainable, as there would be a higher pay-out of benefits than the contributions made during working life.

Mr Speaker, the Secretary to the Cabinet further informed your Committee that following consultations with various stakeholders, the Government had taken a decision to review the retirement age further. The proposed revised regulations would provide for the introduction of early retirement at 55 years, normal retirement at 60 years and late retirement at 65 years. Further, the Government hoped that through an increased quantum of annuity, pensioners would have a reasonable monthly allowance on which they could survive with some dignity.

Sir, let me hasten to add that your Committee is cognisant of the fact that the pension reforms are still work in progress. However, your Committee is particularly concerned that under the proposed regulations, it appears that an officer who opts to retire at 60 years would be disadvantaged, as he/she would only receive a lump sum payment of 10 per cent of his/her pension. Your Committee is particularly worried about the fact that 90 per cent of the remainder of the pension benefits, which is meant to be paid as annuity to the retiree, is not transferrable and cannot be claimed by the heirs of the retiree in the event of death. This means that a person who retires at the age of 60 and receives 10 per cent of his/her pension as a lump sum and dies soon thereafter will have lost most of his/her pension earnings. Your Committee feels that this is unfair to the retiree and strongly recommends that this provision be removed from the proposed regulations.

Your Committee is also concerned about the fact that it is apparent that many Public Service workers do not fully understand the implications of the proposed Pension Reforms. In this regard, your Committee recommends that prior to the implementation of the Pension Reforms, the Government carries out a countrywide consultation process among all Public Service workers, and not just the union leaders on the proposed provisions so that they understand the implications of the reforms fully.

Mr Speaker, let me also briefly comment on Statutory Instrument No. 59 of 2014 on the appointment of an authorised agency order issued by the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock. Sir, your Committee was informed that following concerns expressed by various stakeholders in the agriculture sector regarding the challenges being experienced in agricultural marketing and finance and a comprehensive consultative process, the Minister of Agriculture and Livestock appointed the Zambia Agricultural Commodity Exchange (ZAMACE) as the warehouse licensing agency. As an authorised agency, ZAMACE will be authorised to perform the functions of the Warehouse Licensing Authority.

Your Committee was further informed that the Warehouse Receipt System is expected to:

(a)   improve agricultural marketing and finance by easing access to commodity finance;

(b)   enable crop marketing so that it is better managed;

(c)   lead to reduced trade margins and seasonal price variability;

(d)   facilitate trade by making it possible for buyers to purchase without physical sampling of the commodities;

(e)   enable a thriving commodity exchange with much greater direct involvement of smallholders;

(f)   contribute to the development financing and risk management instruments that could improve commodity marketing; and

(g)   enhance the involvement of the financial sector in agricultural marketing.

Sir, the warehouse receipting system is expected to provide the following benefits particularly to small-scale farmers:

(a) create opportunities for farmer groups to bundle their crop into economic lots that can be sold to processors further down the marketing chain;

(b) provide a means for assuring grain quality, thereby reducing the scope for cheating on quality;

(c) assure the quality, quantity and location of their crop and make it possible for them to access the commercial grain market;

(d) ensure storage in well-run warehouses, thus reducing post-harvest losses which can be quite high at the smallholder level; and

(e) make deferred sale possible through access to finance secured against warehouse receipts.

Sir, your Committee applauds the Government for taking this measure, especially as it is targeted at improving the welfare of smallholder farmers. Your Committee hopes that the implementation of this measure will be smooth in order for our people to truly benefit from it.

Sir, allow me to also briefly highlight Statutory Instrument No. 58 of 2014, the Ionising Radiation Protection (General) (Amendment) Regulations, 2014 issued by the hon. Minister of Health. The SI has been issued pursuant to the powers vested in the hon. Minister under Section 46 of the Ionising Radiation Protection Act and is meant to amend Statutory Instrument No. 98 of 2011 by the repeal of the 6th Schedule and substitution therefor of a new 6th Schedule. The repeal of the 6th Schedule has been necessitated by the fact that the previous schedule was too general and did not specify the actual activities that were being regulated. The SI, therefore, provides clarity in terms of the actual activities to be regulated by the Radiation Protection Authority (RPA). It also provides for an increase in the fees payable which are meant to strengthen the Quality Assurance and Compliance Programmes that are undertaken by the RPA.

Sir, the House may wish to note that the use of sources of radiation of various types and activities is widespread in industry, medicine, research and teaching in the country. Currently, there are 798 sources of radiation and devices in the country, and only 246 facilities use them. Further, the House is aware that considerable data has been compiled on radiological accidents around the world. Several such accidents have affected members of the public, with some resulting in death. In Zambia, strong radioactive sources have been in use for more than fifty years and, so far, there has not been a major radiological accident. However, the relatively good safety record is no ground for complacency, especially where practical effective steps can be taken to reduce the risk of such accidents.

Mr Speaker, in general, a programme of inspection of radiation sources and devices is very important. However, it can only be effective if it is supported with an effective enforcement mechanism and provided with adequate resources. Statutory Instrument (SI) No. 58 of 2014 will provide the RPA with some additional resources to effectively monitor, control, and promote the safe use and disposal of radiation sources and devices in the country. In this regard, your Committee commends the Government for being pro-active in avoiding the risk of radiological accidents. We only hope that these measures will be fully and seamlessly implemented in the interest of our people.

Sir, I implore all hon. Members of Parliament, especially those in the Executive, to carefully study your Committee’s report so that the Government considers implementing some of your Committee’s recommendations in the interest of our people.

Finally, Sir, let me pay tribute to all the witnesses who made submissions to your Committee. I also wish to put on record your Committee’s gratitude to you and the Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia for the unfailing advice and excellent support services rendered throughout the session.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr Mutale: Mr Speaker, now.

From the outset, I would like to convey my deepest condolences to Hon. Mwanza’s family. Hon. Mwanza served with us on your Committee for Delegated Legislation. May his soul rest in peace.

Sir, let me highlight some of the key findings of your Committee during its tour to Zimbabwe. Your Committee learnt that the Parliament of Zimbabwe does not have a specific Committee on Delegated Legislation. In this regard, all subsidiary legislation is considered by the Parliamentary Legal Committee (PLC) which is responsible for consideration of all substantive and delegated legislation that is before the House. Your Committee learnt that the PLC had twenty-six days in which to submit a report to the House on any legal instrument, whether a Bill or Statutory Instrument (SI), unless it sought an extension of time from the Hon. Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker, after consideration of an SI, if the PLC reaches the conclusion that the instrument would be inconsistent with any Constitutional provisions if passed, the Committee issues an adverse report to that effect to the House. Parliament may accept or reject the PLC’s report. Should the House accept the opinion of the Committee of the PLC, the SI is effectively nullified, thereupon ceasing to have effect. If the House rejects the Committee’s adverse report, the SI is confirmed. If, on the other hand, the Committee is of the opinion that the SI does not violate the Constitution or the enabling Act, it issues a non-adverse report or certificate. The Committee may withdraw an adverse report before it is considered by the House if it is satisfied that the provision has been repealed or amended in such a way as to remove the contravention.

Sir, your Committee leant that any aggrieved persons, whether the issuing authority or a member of the public, he/she was at liberty to approach the Constitutional Court and challenge the decision of the National Assembly and the Constitutionality or otherwise of any given SI. The SI would be suspended pending the court’s decision. If the Committee did not make a report to the House within the stipulated twenty-six days, the law stipulates that the Committee was deemed to have concurred with the provisions of the SI and it stood confirmed. It was stressed that in practice, the Committee always invited the Government Drafting Department and the issuing authority of the piece of legislation in question to the consultative meeting at which the Committee highlighted its concerns regarding the SI and any response given was taken into account in reaching a conclusion.

Mr Speaker, following its study tour to Zimbabwe, your Committee wishes to recommend that:

(a) the mandate of your Committee on Delegated Legislation be reviewed urgently in order to clarify and strengthen its oversight role on subsidiary legislation;

(b) urgently review the time frame for your Committee sittings in order to ensure timely review of delegated legislation by the Legislature;

(c) stipulate a specific time frame in the Standing Orders within which your Committee should sit to consider any subsidiary legislation promulgated by delegated authorities and submit the report thereon to the House;

(d) your Committee be facilitated to meet more regularly in order to adhere to the timeframes; and

(e) review the powers of your Committee so that if adopted by the House, its recommendations are effective, that is to say, once adopted by the House, a negative recommendation by the Committee on an SI should result in the immediate nullification of such an instrument.

Sir, your Committee further strongly recommends that the above-mentioned recommendations be referred to the relevant Committees of the House for appropriate action.

Sir, I beg to second.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya (Petauke): Mr Speaker, from the time of my return to the House, I have noticed that the furniture has remained the same, but the sitting arrangement has changed remarkably.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Sir, I have noticed that my dear friend, Hon. Chenda and the hon. Member of Parliament for Mpika, have become very quiet Backbenchers. However, it is good to note that Hon. Masebo has continued to be an active speaker in the House.

I am yet to observe the performance of someone who is not in the House this afternoon, and that is the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama Central who once joked about lining the road to Kasama with K50 notes. As such, analogy on the journey to Kasama yesterday by Hon. Kambwili was not lost on me. I believe the road to Kasama needs a lot of preparedness. I am extremely pleased to be back in the House, especially as a Backbencher, after serving as a Minister and senior Member in the Opposition. It is very refreshing to have a view from back here, as a Backbencher from the party in Government. It is also refreshing to have the freedom to speak.

Mr Speaker, the former Speaker, Hon. Amusa Mwanamwambwa always reminded the House that the term “Parliament” is derived from the French word “parley” and that we are all here to talk and be heard. Whether or not what we say is sensible, is for the public to judge.

Mr Speaker, the last two years were not about me, but about my two colleagues, Mr Maxwell Mwale and Mr Sililo. For me, they were always about the people of Petauke who had no representation in this House. Our democratic dispensation designates 150 Constituencies to elected representation. The House carried on for two years with 147 elected representatives as if it was normal. We must never allow this to happen again. We must also be in the forefront of addressing whatever lacunas in the law that brought about this situation.

Mr Speaker, it is illogical that when an hon. Member of Parliament dies, the law dictates that an election takes place within three months but, in the case of a court process, the law is silent on the period to dispose of it, meaning that it can become almost an endless road with no regard to the impact this may have on the electorate. It is wrong and must be corrected so that no constituency is faced with such a dilemma in future.

Mr Speaker, the public perception is that the situation renders the House weak, in that it cannot protect itself from political abuse through the court and, by inference, cannot protect the people it is supposed to serve, the electorate, a situation that must be corrected if the House has to continue to enjoy its position as the true gathering of the people’s representatives.

Mr Speaker, the 12,833 votes I got in the Petauke Central by-election are a clear demonstration of the people’s will.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: The votes demonstrate significantly what history has taught us time and time again, that power only lies with the people, and that any power that we, as individuals, mentally fabricate as our own or believe we posses, is only so because it has been bestowed upon us by the people.

Mr Speaker, the 12,833 votes that the Patriotic Front (PF) candidate got in Petauke Central, are also a reflection of a political adage that goes, “There are no permanent enemies only permanent interests.” It was very clear after the January 20th, 2015, Presidential By-elections that the PF could rebrand as a party not just for a tribe or group but for all Zambians.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Question!

Ms Siliya: It was also clear that the PF could change from being viewed as an intolerant party to one with divergent views, but a common cause, that is, improving the lives of Zambians. Today, the PF has received support from many notables, including Former President Rupiah Banda, the former UPND Vice-President, Mr Richard Kapita, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: … the former Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) member and, recently, United party for National Development (UPND) sympathiser, Dr Katele Kalumba, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: … the business sector and many citizens.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: It is in the PF Governemnt that the first female Vice-President has been appointed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: The message from the people of Petauke, voters and none voters alike, is that they will continue to work with any political party as long as it remains relevant and responsive to their permanent interests because, after all, they do not feed nor educate their children purely by chanting names of political parties whether it is the UPND, MMD or PF. The people of Petauke want to work with the party and leadership whose social and economic programmes interface with their permanent interests. At the moment, the people of Petauke have put their trust in the PF, the party in Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: The people of Petauke, however, welcome passionate, sound and respectable debate any day, but they will continue to ignore inconsistent opposition and shallow debate, as the by-election has just revealed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: In this regard, I am a bearer of a message to the Executive and the House from the people of Petauke.

Mr Mucheleka: Dora, uleufwako nensoni.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, Hon. Member for Lubansenshi!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, to the hecklers, they say, “Manners make a man not his suit.”

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue, hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Kampyongo: Bwekeshapo!

Ms Siliya: To the Office of the Vice-President, the people, especially those in outlying areas, are anxious to receive relief food.

Mr Mucheleka: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, order!

Ms Siliya: Bad rains, coupled with inadequate fertiliser supply, have resulted in very low yields for most peasant farmers. I also urge the Ministry of Finance and the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) to address the outstanding payments to farmers, regarding the work done with the Petauke Farmers Union during last season’s buying period. The farmers of Petauke urge the Treasury to pay them on time this year. I am happy to know that Compound-D fertiliser is already in Petauke, with 55,340 bags in stock.

Mr Mucheleka rose from his seat.

The Deputy Chairperson: Before the hon. Member for Lubansenshi leaves the House, …

Mr Mucheleka resumed his seat.

The Deputy Chairperson: I thought you were leaving. No points of order are allowed during maiden speeches.

Hon. Member for Petauke, you may continue.

Ms Siliya: This is a marked improvement from the 26,000 bags supplied last season. An equivalent number of bags of Urea are expected soon. The message from the voters in Petauke to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock must be loud and clear. Petauke receives adequate numbers of bags of seed and fertiliser on time. So, the PF will continue to get votes in Petauke.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, I appreciate that Petauke Central has other needs, but it is difficult to talk about infrastructure when food security is threatened. It is even more difficult to talk about weaning peasant farmers off the Farmer Input Support Programme (FISP) when, for the last two years, the farmers have been poorly supported. I argue that consistent FISP support for a minimum of four years with fairly good rainfall and efficient procurement by the FRA and the private sector, is the only way we can put more money in farmers’ pockets and help them diversify to other cash crops. Supporting small-scale farmers who make up 70 percent of Zambia’s labour force has a trickledown effect in each district. It enables farmers to buy roofing sheets, cement and other essentials. It also provides for household social security.

Mr Speaker, we are, however, pleased that the Zambia Prisons Service will erect a milling plant in Petauke as part of agri-business investment. There are many other opportunities in the hospitality business, in education, housing construction, storage and processing of groundnuts in Petauke.

Mr Speaker, the 2014 Constituency Development Fund (CDF) for Petauke Central has not been received. I recall clearly that the CDF was instituted so that decisions to enhance the lives of our people can be made quickly at local level. With only thirty-four boreholes dug in 2014 in the whole district, there are still many areas such as Mataya and Isaki bomas where people share drinking water with livestock. It should be possible in our country, after fifty years after Independence, to have a one village, one borehole programme. That is the least our people expect from the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing.

Mr Speaker, I know that some people will argue that I was in Government before. Indeed, I was but, in the past Administration, we did not claim to be the preserve of all wisdom. That is why I am standing here now and those who are responsible for making decisions are in the Front Bench.

Mr Ng’onga: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, let me touch the elephant in the room and that is electrical power. Firstly, I am happy that the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) has come up with a better schedule for load shedding now, where we have power early evening. With the electricity challenge being faced, I shudder to think of the time when all of Zambia will be powered. Much economic gains through taxes can be made by the Government with more power nationwide to allow for investment. Clearly, this has not happened fast enough. In Petauke ZESCO has plans to light the streets of Tasala 1 to 10 residential areas and Sitambuli Road. We wish to have this done like yesterday. Since the whole country has been dependent on hydropower, the use of generators seems to be the alternative for most businesses and households. I am glad to note that they are duty free because they should help to lessen the pressure on ZESCO.

Mr Speaker, current statistics show that 90 per cent of Zambians are forty-five years old and below. The majority are in the twenty to twenty-five years old bracket. This is a time bomb if not attended to. Many youths find formal education difficult to access with very limited places available or unaffordable for them. Getting a decent job is also a torturous road. The Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry should think outside the box and provide hope to youths in Petauke. I have met many Grade 12 school leavers who are now call boys at bus stations and have turned to beer drinking due to frustration. Many end up dying of the Human Immunodeficiency Virus/Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome (HIV/AIDS) before the age of thirty. These are people’s children whose parents once had hope that they will make it in life. We all have a responsibility to do something about the hopelessness our youths feel.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was belabouring the point that the Ministries of Commerce, Trade and Industry, and Youth and Sport should target their empowerment funds towards youths and have district data that can help us determine accessibility and impact on development in our communities.

Sir, the message for the hon. Minister of Youth and Sport is that there are football players too in Petauke who, given a chance, can represent Zambia. Resources for football from the Government should not just be for the line of rail. In Petauke, we love football too and also want an appropriate stadium for the district.

Mr Speaker, in the last three years, township roads have been worked on in Petauke. So far, 12.5 km of the planned 19 km have been worked.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: However, this is still not enough. There are many feeder roads such as Kaulu/Chileka Road, Mumbi/Mungongo, Minga/Kasonde, Chitimba/Kanjala and others that need to be worked on.

Sir, the message for the hon. Minister of Transport, Works, Supply and Communication is that works on the Great East Road have taken too long. May the hon. Minister also clarify why mobile phone network is usually poor in Petauke? We demand better and expanded mobile phone network f considering the tariffs.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: Mr Speaker, Petauke Central Constituency is vast. While two new high schools have just been completed, access to primary education is still a challenge. Many children are still learning from the most rudimentary classrooms. I urge the Ministry of Education, Science, Vocational Training and Early Education to accelerate the construction of the 1x3 classroom blocks and teachers’ houses.

Hon. Government Member: It is already done.

Ms Siliya: This will also lessen the walking distances for voters as many voting centres in rural areas are schools.

Mr Speaker, with regard to accessibility to health and education, the requirement for a 4-5 km radius between health facilities and schools should be maintained. It is difficult for many of us to imagine a pregnant woman who is in labour or a sick child to walk to a health centre that is 30 km away because there is no transport.

Sir, we must consistently ask ourselves how far we have gone with regard to the achievement of the millennium development goals (MDGs) on reducing poverty and improving accessibility to education and health.

Mr Speaker, after almost eighty campaign meetings, one of the prominent issues, second only to water problems, was the flaws in the Social Cash Transfer Scheme. Firstly, many aged women and men claimed that they were not included on the list when the officers visited their communities. It also appears that there are confidence-related issues with the whole process that need to be addressed. I am very pleased that this afternoon we got a notice from the hon. Minister for a workshop on the same to be conducted on Monday.

Sir, the Ministry of Community Development, Mother and Child Health should gather data on the very old and most vulnerable boys and girls who need support with education and health. Having reliable data is the only way to help us make informed decisions.

Mr Speaker, recently, some women groups in my constituency received cheques worth K2,000 as empowerment grants. These are usually large groups of thirty to fifty women and they end up just sharing the K2,000 because it is too little to be used for any meaningful business venture. I urge the Ministries of Gender and Child Development and Community Development, Mother and Child Health to come up with the most effective way to support women’s groups in the 2016 Budget.

In outlying areas, women need more than cash but actual linkages to markets for nuts, organic chickens, goats and other products. In my view, interface with business is the real answer.

Finally, Mr Speaker, let me talk about a matter that is so close to my heart. The cases of child defilement that go unreported in many parts of Zambia are equally worrying in Petauke. Legislation must be improved and tightened so as to punish the perpetrators of this vice and protect the victim. The police and hospitals also need training on evidence gathering and storage, and how to deal with both victims and culprits, considering our cultural orientation.

Mr Speaker, let us not fail to help a ten-year old girl who comes to us for help after being raped by a teacher or a relative because the police or family prefer to look the other way. Let us not deny help to that boy who is being sodomised because it is more comfortable for us to just look away. Society has a responsibility to the very young and old who cannot tend for themselves. Courts at district level have to be sensitive to these matters. This is the message for the hon. Minister of Justice.

Mr Speaker, overall, the people of Petauke Central have every confidence that these issues they asked me to deliver to this House and, in particular, to the Executive, will be attended to in the shortest period because Petauke Central is not just a presidential constituency but, as the saying goes, “the people from the East are wise.| So, they are always betting on the winning party and President.”

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: This is why, in this election, the people of Petauke Central refused to waste their time on perpetual career presidential candidates.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Siliya: I wish to thank the entire campaign team in Petauke, colleagues, Hon. Kawandami, Hon. Kampyongo and all those who came to support me, especially to taste the traditional village chicken.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Siliya: I wish to state that it is possible to have a violence-free election even with the presence of the UPND. I also wish to thank most sincerely His Excellency the President, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, and Her Honour the Vice-President, Mrs Wina, for their support.

Hon. UPND Members: Question!

Ms Siliya: I also wish to thank my friends, supporters, family and, most of all, my son, without whose patience, I would not be here.

Hon. UPND Members: And Kambwili!

Ms Siliya: Of course, I was very pleased to hear that Hon. Kambwili made every effort to come and campaign in Petauke.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to sincerely thank the mover and seconder of this Motion for a well-thought out report. In my discussion, I will deal with three issues. I will start with the Statutory Instruments (SIs) under the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) and the Ministry of Local Government and Housing in relation to allowances for local Government councillors and, then, I will deal with the Ministry of Chiefs and Traditional Affairs. Finally, I will deal with the SI that was enacted with a view to increasing the retirement age.

Mr Speaker, I would like to take cognisance of the present of one of my clients, with whom I worked tirelessly in the election petition up to the Supreme Court, in the House. I am also aware of the injurious statements that the Patriotic Front (PF) made to a number of clients and colleagues who were in the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) who were being accused of being corrupt. They were harassed, but are now on the other side.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I also want to congratulate members of our party who have not found themselves in this House, but decided to remain with their conviction and principle, without falling victim to issues of interest.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I also want to state that there is a provision in the Electoral Act which provides that an election petition for parliamentary elections should be disposed of within 180 days. Unfortunately, our courts of law have failed to adhere to the existing law, to the extent that we have had situations where parliamentary election petitions have taken more than four years to be disposed of. I would also like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Justice to come up with legislation to ensure that an appeal in the Supreme Court is given a time frame in order for our people in various constituencies whose hon. Members of Parliament’s seats have been declared vacant, to have representation in the House.

Mr Speaker, the second issue I would like to discuss is that of Statutory Instrument No. 9 of 2014. This is the Local Government (Councillors’ Allowances) (Amendment) Order of 2014. I am aware that councillors in our various councils welcomed these amendments, which provided an allowance which, if I may be allowed to term it, a salary, at the end of the month. Unfortunately, most of the councillors in Zambia, especially those in the rural areas, have failed to access this allowance due to severe financial constraints in councils. I would like to appeal to the hon. Ministers of Local Government and Housing and Finance to find a mechanism where allowances and salaries of councillors are not paid by individual councils, but be a Vote under the Ministry of Finance, and councils paid at the end of the month. That should be done if we have to motivate the councillors.

Mr Speaker, the third issue I would like to address relates to the recognition of chiefs in Zambia. I am happy to note that various SIs have been made with a view to recognising our traditional leaders. However, I would like to appeal to the Government to accord traditional leaders the due respect and honour. I have noted, with concern, that under the PF Government, traditional chiefs are being abused, …

Hon. Government Members: Ah!

Mr Mwiimbu: … humiliated and harassed. They are being threatened with arrest by the police under the instruction of those in power.

Mr Speaker, I would like to refer the House to two articles that have appeared in today’s newspapers. The first one has appeared in the The Daily Nation, Issue No. 1076, of Thursday, July 9, 2015. The headline reads, “South Chiefs against Cessation”. In the body of this article, there is an allegation that chiefs in the Southern Province have had a meeting, and that they are advocating for cessation.

Hon. Government Member: They are welcome.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I have heard someone say that they are welcome. I have noted, with concern, that there are some colleagues who google ignorance …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … and they have the propensity to abuse others. Such statements should not be allowed.

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, the next …

Mr Kampyongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

A point of order is raised.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the report on the Floor is very clear. The mover and seconder of your report were very clear, and the issues raised in the report are very clear too. Is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to bring in miscellaneous issues which are not related to the report?

Mr Speaker, we are here to discuss serious business and, when serious business is on the Floor, we must not digress and start bringing in issues which are mischievous.

Mr Speaker, I seek your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The serious ruling is that there are no mischievous issues being debated. However, if you look at Pages 21 to 23 of the Committee’s report, there are a number of Statutory Instruments (SIs) relating to the recognition of chiefs which the Government has issued.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Therefore, he is basing his argument on the SIs. That said, I think it may be necessary to ensure that we stick to the report as much as possible.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Member for Katombora!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance. I was trying to marry the SI with the Chiefs Act. My point of discussion on the Floor of this House is the due honour that is supposed to be accorded to chiefs.

Mr Speaker, there is a screaming headline in The Post newspaper for today. For ease of reference, I would like to quote the headline that reads, “They Will Face the Full Wrath of the Law if they continue their Treasonable Scheme – Kambwili”.

Mr Livune: Mm!

Where is he?

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, another headline reads, “Government Warns Tonga Chiefs”.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ah!

Mr Livune: Shame!

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, it is irresponsible, unprincipled and unwarranted to make such statements when one has no evidence. This country has been thriving on the motto of, “One Zambia, One Nation.” If we allow misguided individuals to make such serious statements that chiefs in the Southern Province are making treasonable acts, we are leading this country astray.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Member, I was very liberal in giving guidance. As far as possible, let us stick to the report. You have made your point. I think that you should come closer to what is in the report because the point has been made.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to state that even what happened to Paramount Chief Mpezeni in the Eastern Province should be condemned by every right-thinking Zambian. This does not apply to chiefs in the Southern Province only, but all the chiefs. We must accord them the due respect. We should not show them respect only when there are elections or when we want to abuse them. We need to accord them the due respect.

Sir, my earnest appeal to this Government is that it should ensure that such issues are not allowed to continue.

Finally, Mr Speaker, I would like to talk about the SI that relates to the increase of the retirement age pertaining to civil servants. I recall that prior to the Presidential Elections in 2015, the Government accused the Acting President then ...

Mr Sichone: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised. That will be the last point of order on the hon. Member who is debating.

Mr Sichone: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to mislead the nation by insinuating that the Government has not shown respect to His Royal Highness Paramount Chief Mpezeni, when he knows that the proceedings of this House are broadcast live on radio?

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!
Mr Sichone: Is he in order to make such insinuations when those of us on the ground know that the Government works very well with his Royal Highness Chief Mpezeni?

Hon. Government Member: That is why they lose elections.

The Deputy Chairperson: The nature of the debates here are essentially a contestation of facts and issues. I know that the Government has taken note of what has been said and the appropriate thing to do is give the correct response when you are given an opportunity to do so.

May the hon. Member for Monze Central continue.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, there was one issue in relation to chiefs that I overlooked.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Paramount Chief Mpezeni complained that he was tear-gassed by the police.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I think we are digressing. Let us debate the report and not stories of chiefs being tear-gassed. I have gone through the report page by page and I think we are straining it.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I just wanted the people of Chipata to hear about ...

Mr Livune: That is right.

Mr Mwiimbu: ... the issue.

Mr Livune interjected.

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, I was saying that during the campaign leading to the Presidential Elections, there were accusations by the PF that the Acting President, at the time, was being mischievous by signing this SI and that he wanted the current President to lose the elections. They made assurances that they would reverse this SI immediately they came into office. However, I am surprised to note that they are now supporting the SI.

Mr Livune: Don’t kubeba.

Mr Mwiimbu: This means that the Acting President, at the time, was right to have signed this SI because it was the Government’s decision. Since it was the Government’s decision, they have decided to allow this SI to continue. As if that were not enough, they have proposed amendments to all other pension schemes so that the retirement age is 60.

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame!

Mr Mwiimbu: The workers of Zambia were misled by the PF. I want the Governemnt to tell the nation today that they are going to amend this SI and revert to the age of fifty-five as the retirement age if they were sincere when they gave assurances to the members of the public. However, I have no doubt that they are not going to do that because they were not being sincere. They were trying to protect their interests because their interests are paramount to those of the people. The people of Zambia are listening.

Sir, you have heard from the report of your Committee that members of pension schemes will lose money as a result of these amendments. I hope that the hon. Minister of Justice or Her Honour the Vice-President will respond to the issues of losing income as a result of the amendments they have made to the SI.

Mr Hamusonde: They do not care.

Mr Mwiimbu: I am told that they do not care, but the people of Zambia care.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Address the Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, finally, I did not realise that we lost some hon. Members to the PF. We have not missed them because they are of no value to us. We have remained intact.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: So, please, receive them and be happy with them because we do not notice their absence here.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister for Eastern Province (Mr Sichone): Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to debate the Motion that is on the Floor.

Sir, I rise to clarify that in as much as the report is talking about all the legal Statutory Instruments (SI) that have been put in place to support the management of the chiefdoms in our country, ...

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: I have not delegated powers to anybody on my left to help me.

Laughter

Mr Sichone: Thank you for your protection, Sir.

Mr Speaker, the Patriotic Front (PF) Government, in the Eastern Province in particular, respects chiefs. As a result of the respect we have for our chiefs, the late President Sata would leave his busy schedule to go and visit traditional leaders such as His Royal Highness Paramount Chief Mpezeni and others.

Mr Speaker, after 20th January, 2015, His Excellency President Edgar Chagwa Lungu participated in the Nc'wala Ceremony of the Ngoni-speaking people.

Sir, even when people want to twist SIs in collaboration with some newspapers that we know has been misinforming people, this Government has remained committed to bettering the relations with Their Royal Highnesses the Chiefs in this country. I also wish to clarify that this Government will always respect Their Royal Highnesses in this country. This Government has well in this regard, especially in the Eastern Province.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President (Mr Bwalya): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me the opportunity to support the Report of your Committee on Delegated Legislation. A number of issues have been raised and debated upon. I will try, as much as possible, to be brief and centre my debate on the Statutory Instrument (SI) on the retirement age.

Mr Speaker, it is always important to give the people of Zambia factual information. We promised the people of Zambia that we would revisit the SI and that is what we have done. We have amended the SI and provided three options with regard to the retirement age as stated by the mover of the Motion. We told the Zambian people that they could retire at fifty-five, sixty or sixty-five years. I want to put it on record that His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Edgar Chagwa Lungu, was very categorical in all his campaign messages when he said that we would review the law. We will, therefore, continue reviewing a number of pieces of legislation to ensure that we better the lives of the Zambian people.

Mr Speaker, it is true that Zambia is a unitary State. That being the case, we shall continue to uphold the motto of, “One Zambia, One Nation”. This is well enshrined in the manifesto of the Patriotic Front (PF) which this Government is using to better the lives of the Zambian people. Therefore, the Zambian people must not be misled that we shall completely do away with the SI. We said that we would amend it in conformity with the needs of the people. In any case, there is no law that is static. Laws change because time changes too. Whatever we have legislated, be it through this House or through delegated authority, we shall still have to revisit and change the law. I thought I needed to put that on record so that the Zambian people can get it clearly.

Mr Speaker, we have received, through various pieces of legislation and the interpretation of the law by the courts of law, a lot of valuable members from different political parties. We value them because they are Zambians who have used the Zambian laws to join the PF, which is a progressive party, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear

Mr Bwalya: …to ensure that they contribute to the development of the country. It is also true that some political parties have received certain members who will not only contribute positively, to those political parties but also take some baggage with them.

Laughter

Mr Bwalya: Mr Speaker, we are in the same boat. Therefore, we need to be very careful how we blame each other as we speak.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

The Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Kampyongo): Mr Speaker, I thank you for affording me the opportunity to make a few comments on your Committee’s report. I will basically talk about Statutory Instrument No. 64 of 2014, The Electoral (Presidential Elections) (Dates and Times of Poll) Order, 2014, which was passed prior to the Presidential By-elections on 20th January, 2015.

Mr Speaker, this piece of legislation was passed immediately after the death of His Excellency the President, Mr Michael Chilufya Sata. It is worth noting that while we complain so much about electoral malpractices, it seems as though we, the politicians, are the ones that are at the centre of these malpractices. Before the election date was announced and the campaigns commenced, it was surprising to see how money was pumped into the campaigns, especially by the Opposition.

Interruptions

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, some hon. Members of Parliament were seen flying around in choppers before the election date was announced. During that time, Hon. Edgar Chagwa Lungu was seated in this House as Minister of Defence. People were seen flying around up to the last day of the adjournment of the House in December. We do not know where the money they were using came from. That still remains a big question. It is surprising that people complained about the Electoral Commission of Zambia (ECZ) being unfair. As far as we know, the ECZ has reformed to the extent where people know the votes at every polling station in real good time. So, we come into equity, we should come with clean hands.

Mr Speaker, President Edgar Chagwa Lungu had only fifteen days in which to campaign.

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, on a point of order.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.
Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, this is a very compelling point of order. The hon. Deputy Minister has referred to Statutory Instrument No. 14 …

Prof. Lungwangwa: No. 64.

Interruptions

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, whichever, the point, …

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: … I just need your ruling.

Mr Speaker, where, in the Statutory Instrument (SI) …

Interruptions

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Sir, I have been corrected ...

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: ... that it is actually Statutory Instrument No. 64.

The Deputy Chairperson: Of which year?

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Sir, I cannot see ...

Interruptions

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: … the issues that the hon. Deputy Minister …

The Deputy Chairperson: What is your point of order?

Laughter

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister in order to debate what he perceives to be premature election campaigns when this SI only states the dates and times of polls?

Hon. Government Members: Which instrument?

Brig-Gen. Dr Chituwo: Statutory Instrument No. 64. I need your serious ruling, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: If, in fact, the hon. Member who was debating referred to this particular SI, then, to that extent, the debate was out of order. However, with regard to the campaign period, that, I think could be sufficiently accommodated. That is my ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, for the sake of my hon. Uncle, …

The Deputy Chairperson: I thought you had already left that point.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, the point I was belabouring is that when the Zambian people have confidence in someone’s leadership, you cannot do anything about it. My colleague, the hon. Member for Petauke, talked about career candidates, who have been appearing on the ballot papers several times, …

Laughter

Mr Mwila: Career advisors.

Mr Kampyongo: … joined the Presidential race earlier than President Edgar Chagwa Lungu, but are still …

The Deputy Chairperson: For the sake of progress, let us stick to the SI.

Mr Kampyongo: Mr Speaker, my final remarks are that let us come into equity with clean hands, when it comes to campaign periods.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: The honourable and learned Minister of Justice.

Mr Lubinda rose.

The Deputy Chairperson: Oh!

I beg your pardon, there is another colleague who wants to speak. It is always good to indicate timeously. Hon. Minister of Agriculture and Livestock, you have the Floor.

The Minister of Agriculture and Livestock (Mr Lubinda): Mr Speaker, I apologise for catching your eye late. I will be very brief. I would like to draw the attention of the House to this important report. Let us make no mistake. Your Committee has a very onerous task which should not be trivialised by anybody. Beyond that, it must not be abused by anyone in this House.

Sir, I wish to draw your attention to page 1 of your Committee’s report on the functions of your Committee and judge its report against its stipulated functions.

Mr Speaker, on page 1, Item 2 on the functions of your Committee, the report states:

“The Committee shall scrutinise and report to the House, through Mr Speaker, whether the powers to make orders, regulations, rules, sub-rules and by-laws delegated by Parliament are being properly exercised by any person or authority within such delegation. As the machinery of delegated legislation is dealt with under the heading “Statutory Instruments,” these instruments must:

“(a) be in accordance with the Constitution or statute under which they are made;

(b) not trespass unduly on personal rights and liberties;

(d) be concerned only with administrative detail and not amount to substantive legislation which is a matter for Parliamentary enactment.”

Sir, I have raised this issue because, listening to the debates this evening, one wonders whether we are not suggesting that the functions of your Committee must be expanded beyond what is stated above.

Mr Speaker, I read this report carefully and it states that your Committee observed that every Statutory Instrument (SI) was passed in accordance with the provisions of the law, which means that the Government, in exercising its legislative function, is in keeping with the expectations of the law. Any peripheral matters to do with the SIs are either matters of detail or substantive matters that require legislation. If there is abuse of any individuals or chiefs, as has been spoken about this evening, or if there is a need for payment of allowances to councillors to be passed as substantive legislation, it is not through your Committee, but other wings of the Government. We, hon. Members of Parliament, must be cognisant of the fact that we have the power to initiate such laws.

Sir, I would like to suggest to those who have been raising matters of a substantive nature through delegated legislation that this is not the avenue. The avenue is provided for elsewhere. Had these matters been raised erroneously by new entrants in this House, I would have let this pass. However, for these matters to be raised by hon. Members who have been in the House for years, it is not an error, but malice. I think that we should not allow malice to creep into this kind of debate.

Mr Speaker, I want to thank the Chairperson and all the members of your Committee for being very reflective. As a member of the Executive, it is not my place to say this, but to appreciate the fact that your Committee on all the delegated legislative issues that are presented in its report acknowledged that this Executive is in keeping with the law. I would also like to appeal to my colleagues that the next time we receive such a report, we should maintain this standard. I am proud that all the SIs emanating from the ministry that I am responsible for were well acquainted by your Committee. To all my colleagues, let us keep up the standard because that is what the Zambian people expect of us noble members of the Executive. Congratulations colleagues, and let us keep up the standard.

I thank you, Mr Speaker

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: I want to say a word or two. Sometimes, you put Presiding Officers in a very difficult situation because the mind of man shall, and cannot be tried because even the devil knoweth not what is in the mind of man. So, when you rise to catch my eye, there is no way, as Presiding Officer, I will know whether you will stick to the report or not. I am in full cognisance of the terms of reference of this Committee because I was privileged to chair it for five consecutive years. However, sometimes, you put us in a situation where we do not want to be seen to be muzzling debate. So, we allow you to continue debating with the hope that you will come back to the report. I constantly remind the debaters to debate the report.

Be that as it may, it is now time for the honourable and learned Minister of Justice to make his contribution.

The Minister of Justice (Dr Simbyakula): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I wish to applaud and commend the mover of this Motion, Hon. Isaac Banda, and the seconder, Hon. Boniface Mutale, and all the members of your Committee, including my late elder brother, Hon. Humphrey Iddoh Mwanza, may his soul rest in peace, for their industry and diligence in carrying out their functions.

Mr Speaker, as your Committee has rightly observed, delegated legislation, which is also referred to as secondary legislation, subordinate legislation or subsidiary legislation, is law made by Executive authority under the powers delegated from a primary legislation or parent Act.

A primary legislation grants an Executive agency power to implement and administer the requirements of the primary legislation. In Zambia, we call these pieces of delegated legislation Statutory Instruments (SI), regulations, by-laws etc.

Sir, the Ministry of Justice plays the role of drafting the pieces of delegated legislation, SI or regulation and to render advice to the various ministries as to whether or not the SI was made in accordance with the parent legislation.

Mr Speaker, the work of your Committee is a clear manifestation of the scrutiny function of this august House over Executive action. Your Committee scruitinised 88 pieces of delegated legislation, which is no mean feat, because some them were quite voluminous and required a lot of scrutiny.

Mr Speaker, we, on your right, as my colleague, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives has observed, are quite pleased to note that out of the 88 SIs that your Committee scruitinised, nearly all of them were acknowledged as having been made in accordance with the primary legislation. We are quite pleased about this.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Simbyakula: Sir, let me just briefly turn to the debate of my learned friend, Hon. Mwiimbu, on the issue of the Statutory Instrument No. 63 of 2015, the Public Service Retirement Regulation. I wish to inform the House that not too long ago, the hon. Ministers of Labour and Social Security and Local Government and Housing presented Bills to this House to deal precisely with the issue of retirement age, namely The National Pensionable Scheme (Amendment) Bill and The Local Authorities Superannuation Fund (Amendment) Bill. The two Bills will be coming up for second reading sometime next week. This shows the seriousness we attach to the promises we make to the Zambian people during campaigns.

Sir, my colleagues in the Office of the Vice-President has pointed out that the normal retirement age has now been set at 60 with an option for early retirement at 55 years and late retirement at 65 years. So, Zambians are free to determine when they want to retire.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the hon. Members who have joined the Patriotic Front (PF), I want to agree with what the hon. Member of Parliament for Petauke said that in Zambia we have a unique political tradition where there are no permanent enemies and the only thing which is permanent is interest. That makes us unique on this continent. My hon. Friends, today, you are there and, tomorrow you will be here with us and you will be very pleased.

Mr Mwiimbu: Tomorrow!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You never know what happens tomorrow.

Laughter

Dr Simbyakula: Precisely. For example, Hon. Livune may be here with us tomorrow. If anything, 2016 is approaching. So, you never know what the future holds. Only the Good Lord knows.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Simbyakula: Mr Speaker, we have noted, with gratitude, the recommendations made by 1your industrious Committee. We shall do the needful so that we serve better the Zambian people who are our masters all of us.

Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Boma!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, let me conclude by thanking all the Members who contributed to the debate on the Floor of the House, starting with Hon. Mwiimbu, my sister, Hon. Dora Siliya, the hon. Minister in charge of my province, the two hon. Deputy Ministers in the Office of the President and the hon. Minister of Justice.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

You see, this is what happens when you end on an interesting note.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Vice-President (Mrs Wina): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_______

The House adjourned at 1916 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 10th July, 2015.

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Debates - Thursday, 9th July, 2015

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