DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE NINTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 23rd July, 2002

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

OATH AND AFFIRMATION OF ALLEGIANCE

The following Members made and subscribed the Oath of Allegiance:

Eddie Chabakola Kasukumya

Kalombo Thomson Mwansa

Mr Speaker: I have been informed that, in the absence of His Honour the Vice-President, who is also Leader of Government Business in the House, as well as the hon. Chief Whip, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has been appointed to act as Leader of Government Business in the House.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! May the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, please, inform the House as to its business for this week.

BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mapushi): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House an idea of the business it will consider this week. Today, as the Order Paper shows, the House will deal with Questions only.

Tomorrow, Wednesday, 24th July, 2002, the business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentations of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then debate private Members’ motions, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider reports from Select Committees, if there will be any.

On Thursday, 25th July, 2002, the business of the House will start with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentations of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will consider stages of any Bills that may have been presented. After that, the House will consider reports from Select Committees, if there will be any.

On Friday, 26th July, 2002, the business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by consideration of the remaining stages of any Bills already before the House and reports from Select Committees, if there will be any.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

ELECTION OF DEPUTY SPEAKER

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform you that the position of Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly has fallen vacant in terms of Article 70, Sub-Article 3(a) of the Republican Constitution. In accordance with Article 70, Sub-Article 2, this House is reminded as follows: Article 72 (2) says, and I quote:

“The Members of the National Assembly shall elect a person to the office of Deputy Speaker when the Assembly first sits after any dissolution of the National Assembly and if the office becomes vacant otherwise, than by reason of the dissolution of the National Assembly, at the first sitting of the Assembly after the office becomes vacant.”

The procedure for electing the Deputy Speaker is the same as that which you followed on 5th February, 2002. I shall start by calling for nominations; each nomination will be seconded. Before that, the proposer will say something about the candidate or nominee that he/she is proposing, and the nominator will then give this House an idea of the sort of nominee that he/she is putting forward for election by this House.

Any nominations?

The Minister of Legal Affairs (Mr Kunda): Mr Speaker, for the position of Deputy Speaker of this House, I propose the Member of Parliament for Chipili Constituency, Hon. Jason Mfula.

He was born on 9th March, 1930 at Chipili Mission, now Mwense District in Luapula Province. He is married to a trained teacher and has five grown-up children. He has got various educational qualifications in teaching and has held various professional jobs in the same area. He has taught at various educational institutions and has been a member of the Industrial Relations Court. He has also held a number of other positions in the Public Service.

His curriculum vitae is quite rich, Sir, and I am confident that he can discharge the duties of Deputy Speaker of this House with impartiality. I propose Hon. Jason Mfula for this position.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Is the nomination seconded?

Mr R. J. N. Banda (Petauke): Mr Speaker, I second the proposal of Hon Mfula. He is mature and I am of the view that he will give good guidance to this House.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: In accordance with the procedure, is there any other nomination? I hear or see none. I hereby declare Hon. Jason Mfula duly elected as the Deputy Speaker of the National Assembly of the Republic of Zambia.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: As soon as it is convenient, we will arrange for his swearing in- in that position.

QUESTIONS

CHOMA/NAMWALA ROAD

1.    Mrs Nkumbula-Liebenthal (Namwala) asked the Minister of Works and supply:

(a)    how many kilometres of the Choma/Namwala Road were tarred by December, 2001 and when the remaining untarred portion will be completed; and

(b)    what caused the delay in completing the tarring of this road.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Dr Sondashi): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that out of a total of 171 kilometres, ninety-one kilometres of the Choma/Namwala Road was tarred by December, 2001. The duration of the contract is twenty-four months from the date of commencement of the work.

Mr Speaker, the reason for the delay in completing the tarring of this road has been the fact that the Government owes the contractor K19 billion from a previous contract, which the contractor did from Namwala to Chitongo. Consequently, he is unable to move to the second phase of the project before being paid the sum of K19 billion which is owed to him. Until this sum is paid, we do not see the contractor being persuaded to move to the site.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Nkumbula-Liebenthal: Sir, in the Budget there is an allocation of K5 billion for 2002 and K15 billion for 2003. Is that the amount the hon. Minister is talking about as being a debt owed to the contractor?

Dr Sondashi: Mr Speaker, no. The figures which the hon. Member of Parliament is referring to are the figures which are in the programme for this year. Five billion is too little even if it were to be paid to the contractor. Of course, he has already been paid K2 billion. This money is going towards reducing the money that we owe the contractor, amounting to K19 billion.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I wish the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to confirm that the Choma/Namwala Road will not be constructed during our life time because there is an escalation clause in the contract and the K19 billion could easily be K24 billion by the end of this year. Therefore, at the rate we are allocating funds, it does not look as if this road will ever be constructed. Could he, please, confirm this.

Dr Sondashi: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm that the road will not be done.

Laughter.

Dr Sondashi: What I can confirm is that immediately we get enough money, the road will be done. I will take this opportunity to persuade my colleague, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, to find money to pay off the money that is owed to various contractors which has, now, reached K180 billion, and the road will be constructed. Due to the good programmes which this Government has put in place, it appears that our co-operating partners will come to our aid. Immediately that money is found, all the roads will be worked on.

Thank you, Sir.

MONZE/NICO ROAD

2. Mrs Nkumbula-Liebenthal asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the Monze/Nico Road in the Southern Province will be tarred.

Dr Sondashi: Mr Speaker, there are no budgetary provisions in the Estimates of Expenditure for the year 2002 for this purpose.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mrs Nkumbula-Liebenthal: Mr Speaker, the Monze/Nico Road leads to the road that goes to Lochnivar, which is a popular tourist resort and a national resort. This road also leads to the Kafue National Park. Since the New Deal Government is emphasising on tourism, can the hon. Minister tell us when these roads are going to be tarred.

Dr Sondashi: Mr Speaker, the road the hon. Member for Namwala is referring to is, indeed, very important. It is one of the roads that I am looking at. When the transport policy has been put in place, that is when legislation will be brought here and approved; our co-operating partners are prepared to fund us. In fact, they are prepared to give us US$800 million and immediately that has been done, we should be able to work on such type of roads. It is really a vital road.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Moonde (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to know when the job of grading the same road will begin because I know that some money has been allocated in the Estimates for this year. However, so far, no work has been done on the road. When is the grading going to start?

Dr Sondashi: Sir, the work will start when we have been given a bit of money by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I should point out that it looks like we are always talking about the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning not releasing money, but, actually, he is facing a lot of liquidity problems because of financing projects like the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia and paying off local authority workers and retrenchees.

So, I appreciate that he is under a lot of pressure, but because of the policy of trying not to misuse public money, I am sure that he will be in a better situation after this year. I am sure we shall be able to start attending to our problems then.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

FISCAL RESPONSIBILITY BILL

3. Mr Patel (Lusaka Central) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning when the Government will introduce a Fiscal Responsibility Bill to Parliament.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Kalifungwa): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning accepted the recommendations of the Parliamentary Committee on Estimates to enact a Fiscal Responsibility Act, which is aimed at improving Budget transparency and governance. However, my ministry will accommodate this recommendation by incorporating the elements of this proposal into the revised Finance (Control and Management) Act. These elements shall ably be elaborated in the Financial and Stores Management Regulations. In this way, my ministry will achieve the following objectives, among others:

(i)    increase transparency in the budgetary process;

(ii)    introduce a medium-term expenditure perspective to budgeting; and

(iii)    facilitate public and Parliamentary Committee on Estimates’ participation and scrutiny of the Budget before its finalisation for presentation to Parliament.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Patel: Thank you for the elaborate response, hon. Minister. However, you did not say when you would do this. Would you, please, tell us when?

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, possibly before the end of the year.

Thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

FINANCE (CONTROL AND MANAGEMENT) ACT

4. Mr Patel asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning when the Finance (Control and Management) Act will be amended to comply with modern financial demands.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, the Finance (Control and Management) Act is currently undergoing amendments to comply with modern financial management demands in order to enhance accountability and transparency in the use of public funds. In this regard, a working document has been produced which is undergoing consultative processes in order to enhance co-ordination and integration among public institutions involved in public financial management such as the Auditor-General’s Office and the Zambia National Tender Board.

It is expected that the process will be through and the Finance Act Bill will be tabled in Parliament before the close of this year.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Patel: Sir, could the hon. Minister, please, give assurances that the two Bills that he has said will be completed this year and will be widely publicised so that there is consensus building on the Bills before they are brought to Parliament.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, the policy of our Government is to be transparent. So, publication of all these Bills will be done in the newspapers.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukwakwa (Zambezi East): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister tell the House whether he thinks that following the revelations we had last week, the Government should not revisit all the contracts which the Government signed because there could also be misfeasance in terms of financial drain because of contracts which were entered into illegally.

Mr Speaker: That could be a bonus answer.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, usually, a new question is not answered and this is a new question.

I thank you, Sir.

FOOT, MOUTH AND CORRIDOR DISEASES

5. Mr Nang’omba (Mazabuka) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives how many herd of cattle died from the foot and mouth and corridor diseases in the Southern Province between January and December, 2001, district by district.

The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Sikatana): Mr Speaker, a total of 1,966) cattle died from corridor disease in the Southern Province. There were no cattle that died of foot and mouth disease in the Southern Province and elsewhere in Zambia.

The breakdown of the one thousand nine hundred and sixty-six cattle that died of corridor disease in the Southern Province between January and December, 2001, district by district, is contained in a schedule that I shall lay on the Table for hon. Members of Parliament.

Thank you, Mr Speaker

Mr Speaker: May the hon. Minister lay the schedule on the Table.

Mr Sikatana laid the paper on the Table.

TABLE I

Mr Nang’omba: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures have been put in place to control this disease.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government is putting in place immediately, not only in the Southern Province, but countrywide, measures that are intended to bring under control all livestock diseases. It is our hope that with the funding flow from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, the process that has already begun will continue and will be accomplished within the shortest time possible.

I thank your, Mr Speaker.

Mr Shumina (Mangango): Mr Speaker, 1,966 cattle is a huge number. What has the Government done for those who lost their animals vis-a-vis helping them rejuvenate the cattle industry in the Southern Province?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, livestock diseases have occasioned deaths of several thousands of livestock all over the country and the Government is so overwhelmed that for the present moment there is no intention of beginning a restocking programme as there are no funds available. However, in the near future, as conditions improve, we shall engage in measures comparable to those that have been effected in other countries.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sibetta (Luena): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives what happened to the livestock fund that was established in Southern Province by the former President, Dr Chiluba. Can he explain what is happening with the K2 billion that was allocated.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I truly believe that the hon. Member has asked a question that is completely new and outside the scope of the original question because it is intended to dwell on funding and yet, we are dealing with livestock that has been lost due to corridor disease.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombora): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives said that there is no intention of helping the farmers, especially in the Southern Province, to restock their animals. It is the same hon. Minister who is sending notes around, asking farmers to pay back the loans they got. These farmers have no means of raising the money other than them having animals to produce the maize that can be sold in order to repay the loans.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I believe the hon. Member has just produced a statement and not a question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, I have a question regarding animal diseases in Western Province. At the moment, Western Province has a serious problem of Contagious Bovine Pleuro-Pneumonia (CBPP), which has affected almost all districts in the province. Some seven years ago, we had a similar disease and the Government was kind enough to declare the province a disaster area and the farmers benefited from the money paid for all the animals killed during that period. The same problem is with us at the moment and it is so serious that it was …

Mr Speaker: Question!

Mr Imenda: I would like to find out what measures the Government is putting in place to solve the problems emanating from this disease.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, since the question pertains to an area that is outside the question that is before the House, we will advise the hon. Member to make an effort to put the question for Western Province so that we can give a detailed answer.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Samukonga (Chawama): Mr Speaker, this may sound ridiculous, but I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives …

Mr Speaker: Your microphone does not sound active. Is it working?

Mr Samukonga: Mr Speaker, it is working.

Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives if it is true that some dairy cattle were air-freighted from Holland to Zambia by some former Service Chiefs in order to beef up dairy production. Does the hon. Minister know anything about that?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I believe that that question is outside the ambit of the question before this House.

I thank you, Sir.

Captain Moono (Chilanga): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives what measures the Government is putting in place to enable peasant farmers access the K2 billion to combat corridor disease. The money has been lying idle due to the conditions attached to it.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I also believe that this is another question that is outside the ambit of the subject before this House and in future we welcome any question that may be brought to our attention in future.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I hope that this question will be within the ambit of the matter and will not be a statement, but a question. 

Could the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives inform the nation, through this House, what measures the Government has put in place to ensure that those farmers who lost the 1,966 animals are safeguarded from paying the huge loans that they, now, owe. 

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I will be fair to the hon. Member and say that there are measures on the ground for agents of Government collecting monies owed by farmers, by their own judgment, to be fair to the farmers. Those farmers that will need to be assisted by the deferment of repayments will be judged on the ground. But this Government will, at no time, announce a blanket amnesty for non-payment of loans owed because there are judges on the ground and all hon. Members of Parliament are requested to assist in the process.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shepande (Nangoma): Mr Speaker, I wish to ask the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives whether he is aware that his Government no longer has any capacity to prevent the death of cattle from corridor, foot and mouth diseases not only in the Southern Province, but also in Mumbwa and other parts of the country.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government is aware of the devastating effects of the corridor disease, hence the necessary measures we are taking, including a decision sooner than later, to declare disaster areas where emergency measures should be taken to arrest the situation.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, in the hon. Minister’s answer, all provinces are included. We specifically want to know about Southern Province because the K2 billion was specifically meant for the control of corridor disease in Southern Province. Now, we are told that nearly 2,000 cattle died. May we know what happened to the money meant to control this disease and what is being done to help the farmers in that province.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, whilst I admit that there was that money made available for farmers to access the fight against the livestock diseases, Government came across a situation of farmers and ghost farmers, including those in Kalomo …

Laughter

Mr Sikatana: … that borrowed and diverted the funds to other activities. In fact, one of them has already been visited by the law, resulting in the account being suspended until concrete measures are reached to ensure that those that borrowed pay and those that have borrowed for other purposes are brought to book. We, therefore, appeal to Members of Parliament to assist the Government on this one.

Thank you, Sir.

POLICE SERVICE SALARY INCREMENT

6. Mr L. L. Phiri (Chipangali) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    when the last salary increment for the Police Service was effected;

(b)    what the net salary of the lowest paid police officer up to 31st December, 2001 was; and

(c)    what the net salary of the highest paid police officer as on the same date was.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mapushi): Mr Speaker, the last salary increment for the Police Service was effected in January 2002, backdated to September 2001.

Up to 31st December, 2001, the lowest paid officer was PF15 with a gross salary of K259,789 per month, and a net of K203,777.47 after Pay-As-You-Earn (PAYE) and pension deductions.

The net depends on the officer’s commitment in terms of loans and advances. The officers are also entitled to the following incentives: free accommodation, free water and electricity, free transport and free mealie meal.

As at 31st December, 2001, the highest paid officer was PF 1 with a gross salary of K1,962,543.35 per month and the net of K1,150,338.91 after taking into account allowances and deductions.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr L. L. Phiri: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister shed light on what measures the Government has taken to stamp out the high degree of corruption in the Police Service, which is as a result of the low salaries and allowances we have just heard.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, in relation to the corruption in the nation, my ministry has put into effect a Police Complaints Authority where members of the general public are free to go and complain about police officers believed to be corrupt. This Authority has the power to cause, for example, the Inspector-General of Police or any other officer to be arrested. That is one measure, which has been put in place to ensure that corruption, which has been much talked about in the country, is brought to minimum levels.

Secondly, Mr Speaker, as Minister of Home Affairs, I have encouraged my officers to take their complaints to our Permanent Secretary. I have realised that in that ministry, in addition to ordinary incentives, my officers need to be heard. I am available in case the senior officers of the Police Service are doing something which is not promoting efficiency or are doing something which encourages corruption. I have asked my police officers to feel free to complain to senior officers in my ministry.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Situmbeko (Senanga): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that a private soldier gets more in salary than a sub-inspector in the Police Service?

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, I may not be privy to the information about private soldiers, and so, I cannot give a very meaningful answer.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Ng’uni (Chama South): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to realise that …

Hon. Government Members: Question!

Mr Ng’uni: I am going to ask a question, but before I do that I need to explain something.

Laughter.

Mr Ng’uni: I do not think we are serious about the security of our nation if we are going to pay police officers low salaries. What is …

Mr Speaker: Question!

Mr Ng’uni: What is the Government doing in respect of people who are looking after the security of this country in terms of remuneration? As far as I am concerned, this is a mockery. How can someone live on two hundred and something thousand kwacha throughout the thirty days of the month?

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, I do agree with the hon. Member in terms of the salaries for my officers, but the position of the Government is that generally speaking we agree to the position that most of the Government workers are not properly remunerated. When the Government addresses other people on salaries within the nation, my officers will also be attended to.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, I just want to find out from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs what he is going to do considering that he is violating the conditions of service of police officers. He has stated that they are entitled to free transport but there are no vehicles in the Police Service.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mapushi: Sir, I am not violating any conditions of service. The official position of the Government is to give free transport to officers when it is available. So, we will improve on that one. 

Thank you, Sir.

Mr P. G. Phiri (Vubwi): Mr Speaker, I appreciate that the police officers are enjoying free accommodation. But, is the hon. Minister aware that the accommodation in question consists of awkward houses that need immediate attention? Police officers cannot give good services when they have problems of this nature.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, I am not sure whether that was a statement or a question, but I will assume it was a question. Accommodation, when available, will be given freely as I have said earlier, but I also do realise that in most cases it is not adequate. When funds are available, it is my intention to improve it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. R. Banda (Kapoche): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he is aware that our police officers receive K1,500 per month as risk allowance and how many of them are willing to go in the field knowing that if anything happened to them, they would only be entitled to K1,500 per month.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, I am aware of the low rate, but I promise that when I receive sufficient allocation, it will be improved on.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kangwa (Solwezi East): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that corruption in the Police Service is caused by low salaries?

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, I do not intend to be rude to my elder brother, but I am sure that is an opinion. It could be one of the reasons, it is just a probability. However, I am doing a bit of research in the ministry in an effort to understand some of the causes of corruption.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Samukonga (Chawama): Mr Speaker, what are the rules and regulations governing road-blocks and police checks because many times we are inconvenienced as police officers are conducting unnecessary road-blocks? Can the hon. Minister clarify this issue, please.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, first of all, this is a security facility to help us check on who is not supposed to be on the road and who is carrying what. I agree with the hon. Member that this particular facility sometimes inconveniences members of the public and I have shared with my Inspector-General of Police on how we can improve on our approach to this. I am sure that very soon when we do agree on a position, I will let the House know.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chibanga (Chama North): Mr Speaker, in one of the answers, the hon. Minister mentioned, as one of the incentives to policemen, free mealie meal, water and electricity. My question is: what about those policemen who have no electricity and just use communal taps? What are their benefits?

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, I do realise that some members of the service have no access to electricity and running water in particular. But this is a facility which can only be given when it is there. And one of the means we have made to go round that issue is to give what is called rural hardship allowance to those who are in places where they do not have access to electricity and clean water. When you look at that one, you find that in a way, it compensates those who do not receive the other. But specifically, we have not targeted anybody to say that since you do not get electricity, there is something else. I think it is a matter worth considering, we shall see how we can synchronise matters on that one.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned accommodation, water and so on as benefits for the police. I would like to ask him what his ministry is doing with regard to the poor sewerage in many police camps. What is he doing to address this matter?

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, I am sure we are doing something about that. This is to do with the conditions of service for my officers. I personally had an opportunity to visit some camps. I fully share the concerns expressed by the hon. Member for Kabwata. The sewer system in most camps is very bad, but we are doing everything possible at the ministry to ensure that we do not only improve on accommodation, but also on the sewer system.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Haakaloba (Magoye): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to assure this House and through this House the general public, that the money collected at road-blocks is not going to end up in officers’ pockets as a result of poor salaries.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, money collected at road-blocks is receipted on a Government Receipt Book and, therefore, it cannot go into a private pocket. If it does, however, that is an offence and there are rules and regulations dealing with that.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, arising from the poor salaries of police officers, I would like to ask the hon. Minister whether he is aware that the Zambia Police Service is the most poorly dressed Police Force in Southern Africa.

Laughter.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, with due respect, that assertion or opinion may not be a correct one. However, we are aware that we need to improve on their uniform.

I thank you, Sir.

CASSAVA CUTTINGS

7. Mr Nang’omba asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a)    how many tonnes of cassava cuttings were distributed by the Government throughout the country between January, 2000, and February, 2002; and

(b)    how many of these cuttings were distributed in the Southern Province, district by district.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, a total of twenty-two million, five hundred and forty-nine thousand and five hundred cassava cuttings were distributed by the Government throughout the country between January, 2000 and February, 2002. Eight million, thirty-nine thousand, five hundred cuttings were distributed during the 2000/2001 season while fourteen million, five hundred and ten thousand were distributed in the 2001/2002 period.

Three million, eight hundred and seventy two thousand, nine hundred and fifty-seven cuttings were distributed by the Government in the Southern Province. The breakdown of the above figures, district by district and season by season, is as reflected in a schedule contained in a document that I will lay on the Table.

TABLE 2

It will be noted that the ministry normally accounts for cassava cuttings to farmers in numerical terms and not tonnes.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nang’omba: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm that it is true that 50 per cent of these cuttings dried up.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I cannot confirm that, but I am disappointed by the fact that in a number of areas, we found cuttings left lying in the open by the farmers who received these for no apparent reason. That was very discouraging and I appeal to the hon. Member of Parliament to 
assist.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Haakaloba: Mr Speaker, in addition to the number of cuttings of cassava, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm that some of the varieties of the cassava distributed are actually toxic.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I am aware that most cassava is toxic and, therefore, has to be treated by soaking it in water, and this is common practice wherever this plant is propagated.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! {mospagebreak}

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Shemena (Solwezi West): Mr Speaker, it is not as important to know the number of cuttings, as to the number of hectares that were planted and the expected output so far. We are interested in the food and not the number of cuttings.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, since the question is related to a number of cassava cuttings, I am unable to give the hon. Member the hecterage that was cultivated. But if he is interested in following up the question, we shall give him the details.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm to the house that the Government was actually distributing new cassava varieties that are genetically modified from an undisclosed source and also that the local people are resistant to this genetically modified cassava plant.

Laughter.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, Government does not allow any genetically modified crop or plant to be brought into the country until Government policy has been endorsed by this august House. Therefore, the Government has never imported or propagated GMO cassava cuttings nor has it ever distributed any.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Samukonga : Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives whether research has been carried out in Zambia as an effort to improve cassava cultivation. This is because I am aware that cassava is a major foreign exchange earner. Ghana, for instance, has been known to benefit a lot from cassava export by making industrial starch from it. What are we doing as a country to try and capitalise on this business?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government is taking measures to increase the hectarage of cassava so as to emulate countries like Thailand that export more than Ghana. We have engaged peasant farmers to grow a minimum of a hectare of cassava from this season wherever it will be made available.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr P. G. Phiri: Mr Speaker, the question of cassava cuttings is very encouraging. However, is the hon. Minister aware that the cuttings we are talking about in this House have not reached other parts of the country like Vubwi Constituency? If he is not aware, when is he intending to send these cuttings to Vubwi Constituency?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, assuming the hon. Member’s observation is correct, I advise him to make himself available so that we can give him as many cuttings as he needs without delay.

Thank you, Sir.

Laughter.

Mr Nyirenda (Kasenengwa): Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister confirm whether it is a medical rule that cassava be soaked before it is consumed. I ask in the interest of the Eastern Province where this rule is not adhered to. I am concerned as this crop is toxic.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, it is advisable to soak cassava before it is consumed. Often, people have taken it dry and hard, but it must be realised that this practice is risky. Therefore, you need to advise the people accordingly.

Thank you, Sir.
SILK FARMING IN ZAMBIA

8.    Mr Nang’omba asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a)    how many farmers are doing silk farming in the country;
(b)    how many of these farmers are in the Southern Province; and
(c)    what assistance the Government gives to silk farmers in the country.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, there are presently no farmers involved in silk production in the country. However, a total of 100 farmers were involved in silk farming under the Seri-Culture Development Programme that was initiated by the Department of Agriculture in 1990.

The programme incorporated research in extension activities and was implemented in conjunction with Small Industry Development Organisation (SIDO), who promoted the marketing aspects. The programme came to a close in 1995 due to marketing problems.

There are no farmers in Southern Province involved in silk farming at present although there were fifty during the project. 

The Government of the Republic of Zambia does not give any direct assistance to silk farmers at the moment, but it is in a position to assist interested silk farmers through the supply of worms and eggs for silk production from the National Irrigation Research Station in Mazabuka, and through extension service and training in silk production and use of riling machines stationed at the National Irrigation Research Station to process silk cocoons.

I thank you, Sir.

MAYUKWAYUKWA REFUGEE CAMP

9.    Mr Shumina asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a)    how many refugees were at Mayukwayukwa Refugee Camp up to 31st March, 2002;

(b)    when they will be repatriated to their home countries; and

(c)    what measures the Government has put in place to prevent refugees from staying in Zambian villages.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, by 31st March 2002, there were 25,665 refugees in Mayukwayukwa Refugee Settlement.

As there are different nationalities of refugees resident in the settlement, a majority of whom are Angolans, their repatriation is highly dependent on the conditions prevailing in their respective countries of origin which countries have to determine whether the environment is conducive for their repatriation.

The Government has continued to maintain and pursue a camp-based residents policy in accordance with the reservations made in the Freedom of Movement under the 1951 UN Convention, relating to the status of refugees and in accordance with the provisions of the Refugee Control Act of 1970.

Consequently, refugees are required to reside within designated sites, unless specifically authorised, failure to which they are liable for prosecution. It is also within the domain of the Immigration Department to relocate refugees illegally residing outside settlements to areas that have been designated to them. Implementing partners should assist Government with transportation for relocation programmes. In addition, all refugees are required, under the Refugees Act, to register their presence on the Zambian territory to the authorities within seven days, failure to which they risk prosecution or deportation under the Immigration and Deportation Act. On the whole, the Office of the Commissioner for Refugees in co-operation with the UNHCR and its implementing partners conduct sensitisation campaigns to ensure that refugees are aware of the policies, laws, regulations and their obligations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shumina: Sir, may I know what measures the Government has taken, in collaboration with the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees, to educate Zambian village headmen vis-à-vis refugees in their areas because in Western Province and Kaoma, in particular, there are a lot of refugees residing in Zambian villages.

Mr Mapushi: At the moment, Mr Speaker, as a Government, we have put in place a document called Zambian Initiative. This document calls upon the communities surrounding the settlement areas to ensure that whatever facilities provided for refugees are also shared with the surrounding community so that we lessen the tension that tends to exist between the hosting community and the refugees.

Secondly, Sir, this initiative also has an element of empowering refugees so as to ensure that they do not leave their camps and go into the surrounding areas and also to ensure that they do not harass the village headmen nor any other people from the surrounding communities.

Thank you, Sir.

Miss Nawa (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, what measures has Government put in place to control the influx of foreigners and refugees, now, flooding our cities?

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, there are measures which have been put in place. The laws are quite adequate on this issue. When these people stray into areas prohibited to them, they are caught, and more often than not, they are deported. And also following complaints from members of the public about the performance of our Immigration Department which in the eyes of an ordinary person, seems to be too permissive in terms of allowing people to stray into prohibited areas, we have made changes at the Immigration Department with the intention of improving their performance in ensuring that the laws are effectively implemented and these  people do not roam the streets.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): What measures are you taking, as a ministry, to ensure that all the refugees that were included on the voters’ roll are removed?

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, on a very serious note, I am not aware of refugees who voted. However, it is possible that there could be some in the Luena Constituency.

Laughter.

Mr Mapushi: Otherwise, refugees are not allowed to vote, according to the law. In other words, there are no refugees on the voters’ roll.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Samukonga: Sir, I wish to take advantage of the fact that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is on the Floor to ask one question. What measures is the Ministry of Home Affairs taking to improve prison conditions? Prisons are in a pathetic state right now.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, we have taken several measures to ensure that we improve on the conditions in the Prison Service. I am sure what is very salient there is the question of congestion. I think I am on record as having urged my colleagues in the Prison Service to ensure that all the aged and those who are suffering from terminal diseases be discharged from prisons. And also we are trying to expand the open-air prisons to ensure that only criminals are locked up in rooms where they are supposed to be. If funds permit, it is the intention of my ministry to expand prison accommodation.

Thank you, Sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MURDERERS

10. Mr Shumina asked the Minister of Home Affairs what measures have been taken to protect citizens from unidentified murderers in the following districts in the Western Province:

(i)    Kaoma;
(ii)    Lukulu;
(iii)    Shangombo; and
(iv)    Mongu.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, in Kaoma, officers have intensified patrols, since 1996 in all border areas. In Lukulu, patrols have been undertaken since 1996 by Lukulu police officers in Lukulu West. In Shangombo, officers who patrol Sesheke District cover the Imusho area with intensified patrols in border areas. In Mongu, officers who patrol the Nangweshi area also cover Mongu and its surrounding areas.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Shumina: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that we have, at least, two or three people gunned down by these unidentified murderers on a monthly basis?  If so, is that explanation on the operations of the police correct? How then are people dying every month?

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, I am fully aware of banditry activities in Western Province generally. These arise out of the situation obtaining on the border between Angola and Zambia. What has happened is that some people have been demobilised in the UNITA group. They have taken to banditry activities and have not chosen to go back to their homes and lead ordinary lives. So, we have taken special measures to ensure that we do bring to book these gun-runners and ex-combatants and take them back to Angola.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kalumiana (Nalikwanda): I am worried with the answer the hon. Minister has just given us. I am well aware that all our constituencies in the Western Province are very wide and you cannot patrol them on foot. Is the hon. Minister aware that Mongu, despite being the capital of Western Province, has no reliable vehicle for the police to carry out the patrols? How are the patrols done? Are they being done on foot or on horsebacks or other means of transport?

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, really, transport for the Police Service is inadequate. To this effect, my ministry is considering arrangements where we can have this problem solved and I can assure the House that within the next one and half months, we should be able to see an improved situation in terms of transport. I must take this opportunity, Sir, to assure my colleagues who come from Western Province that the Government has taken special note of the situation prevailing in that part of the country and, to this effect, special measures have been put in place to ensure that we bring under control criminal activities in that area.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simenda: Mr Speaker, I just want to find out from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs how many illegal guns have been recovered or confiscated in Kaoma, Lukulu, Shangombo and Mongu.

Mr Speaker: I do not want to protect the hon. Minister, but that question requires detailed research. We are talking about issues raised in Question No. 10. That is straightforward. The hon Member is advised to put that question separately for research.

Mr Situmbeko: Mr Speaker, this question is in connection with the answer given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs when he was quoting the United Nations Charter on Human Rights regarding refugees. What measures has he put in place to protect the Zambian people against being murdered by the people who come from other countries; who make the people of this country suffer at the expense of those who ran away from their countries because there is no peace? Could he explain to this House.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, that concern is being addressed by my ministry and if I am not mistaken, I think last week or the other week, we looked at how we can strengthen our law regarding refugees in the country and personally, I raised that matter that it appears that we are giving more attention to refugees than we are doing to our fellow Zambians.

Mr Situmbeko: Hear, hear!

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, I am also aware that arising from the presence of the foreigners in our country, we have situations where refugees in the eyes of an average person are enjoying more facilities than our fellow Zambians and this is being addressed in my ministry, presently.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, from the answers that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has given about the inadequacy of transport to patrol and protect the citizens of this country, I am of the idea that, maybe, he can …

Mr Sibetta: Question!

Mr Shakafuswa (Katuba): Sir, may I ask him whether he is considering using constituency vehicles which were bought through the Zamtrop account to assist in the …

Mr Speaker: Order! That question is before the courts of law and the law-makers ought to know that. There is no reference in this House to any case which is before the courts of law. The hon. Member, if he so wishes, may rephrase his question.

Mr Shakafuswa: I will not rephrase the question, but ask the hon. Minister to reconsider a lot of properties being recovered which are lying idle at police stations which tend to be auctioned to citizens. Therefore, I would want to ask the hon. Minister whether he does not think it is prudent that next time, instead of auctioning to the public, such assets can be retained and used by the police.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, that was a brilliant suggestion from the hon. Member of Parliament for Katuba and we will consider it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukwakwa : Mr Speaker, from the answer given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs about gun running, I would like to ask whether the hon. Minister has considered prosecuting those Zambians who were also mentioned in the United Nations Report for gun running into Angola and, therefore, destabilising Zambia’s security.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, it is a very good question and as a Government, I believe we have got sufficient laws to deal with that matter. I think we will pursue that matter using the normal route.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

DIP TANKS

11. Mr Haakaloba asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a)    how many Government and community-owned dip tanks were in the Southern Province by 31st March, 2002, district by district; and

(b)    how many of these dip tanks are serviceable.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, there were, at least, 183 dip-tanks in the Southern Province by 31st March, 2002 broken down as follows:

TABLE 3

Mr Speaker, most of the above dip tanks are Government-owned but a number of them have been put at the disposal of the community for their maintenance; and

(b)    only thirty of the above dip tanks are serviceable and these include those that have received help under the Animal Diseases Control Fund through NGOs (especially World Vision and Care International) and own initiative.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Haakaloba: Mr Speaker, following the hon. Minister’s response to this question, I would like him to state categorically what specific actions or interventions the Government is putting in place to change the situation. Further the people of Magoye would like to know whether the Government is serious in talking about revamping the agricultural sector, especially in the field of cattle rearing. 

As President Mwanawasa has admitted in his speech to this House …

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member is debating his question. It will fall off …

Mr Haakaloba: No, Sir, I am putting another question at the end of it.

Mr Speaker: It is only one.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I, personally have been to Magoye and have seen for myself that it is not only a fact about the devastation of the animals, but also the need for putting up dip tanks immediately because as the list has shown, they have none. So, it is such measures that have been put in place immediately.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs R. C. Banda (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives has suspended the formation of co-operatives and those dip tanks are not only in Southern Province. Even in the Eastern Province, the dip tanks are not operating because most of them have no roofs and I think that if genuine co-operatives continued to be formed, they would address this problem of revamping the dip tanks, but meanwhile, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives has suspended the formation of genuine co-operatives. What measures has he got to help to put these agricultural activities in place?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, it is not true that I have suspended any co-operatives or registration thereof. What we are doing is that we want to get rid of ghost co-operatives and those that were politicised. We, therefore, demand that every co-operative be given a return that has gone through the Chiefs and other traditional rulers and the police to verify those that are being registered as co-operatives so as to start the movement afresh. We had a most successful convention last month of four hundred co-operators and it is, therefore, encouraging to note that we are ready to register co-operatives, including that of madam hon. Member.

Thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

Mr Nakalonga (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, I would like to hear from the hon. Minister whether there are any plans by the Government to provide drugs to communal dip tanks as a way of eradicating cattle diseases.

Secondly, I would like to know whether there are any immediate plans, other than indications …

Hon. Members: One question.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, due to the overwhelming support from co-operating partners arising out of the drought in the Southern Province, we are confident that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning will work out a plan that will address all these questions, including the need for the immediate procurement of drugs that would be applied in the fight against livestock diseases.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muleya (Choma): Mr Speaker, I would like to hear what kind of measures the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives is putting in place to ensure that there is a crop-growing system which will enable the people to repair those dip tanks which have been assigned to the communities, in conjunction with the programme which the hon. Minister wishes to put in place to ensure that these dip tanks are serviceable and usable.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government is doing exactly that. We are on the ground renovating dip tanks but we are saddened by the rate of vandalism where any dip tanks that may have some steel will not survive. The rooftops have been ripped off but these are being repaired and so, we appeal to the hon. Member of Parliament and others in those areas to take measures to ensure that the communities take care of those properties because they belong to them.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, 183 dip tanks in a province are too few, besides only thirty of them are serviceable. Would the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives be able to tell this House how many dip tanks the Government envisages to construct this year in each district, more so in Siavonga where we have none.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government is doing all it can to take stock of those areas that need dip tanks immediately. In other areas, there has been so much devastation that we may have to take time before we replace the dip tanks there. The hon. Member can rest assured that his area is included in the emergency measures that are being taken by the Government and we need his support.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kangwa: Mr Speaker, knowing that this is July, the seventh month of the year, may I be allowed to use this chance to ask the hon. Minister when he is going to make fertiliser available  to farmers across the country.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member’s question is irrelevant, but the hon. Minister may say something on that, only if he so wishes.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, dip tanks and fertilisers are miles apart and so I am not able to answer such a question.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Nkumbula-Liebenthal: Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister tell this House how many dip tanks in Namwala are serviceable and how many are going to be constructed this year.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, unfortunately, the question is on the border and I am not able to tell the hon. Member how many are serviceable in Namwala, but the information will be available for the hon. Member at any time she calls on our offices.

Thank you, Sir.

CATTLE DISEASES IN THE SOUTHERN PROVINCE

12. Mr Haakaloba asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives what measures have been taken to prevent cattle diseases in Southern Province.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the measures taken to prevent cattle diseases in the Southern Province include the vaccination of cattle against diseases, movement control and facilitating the acquisition of drugs and other chemicals through a loan scheme.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Haakaloba: Mr Speaker, I realise that this is an oral question, but I would like to get some facts. Would the hon. Minister, therefore, tell this House exactly where vaccinations have occurred this year.

Mr Speaker: I am not certain whether that question is clear. What vaccinations and on who?

Mr Haakaloba: He mentioned vaccinations of cattle, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the question relates to particulars that we can only make available at a later time.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives whether there are any plans to legislate the compulsory dipping of animals with a view to eradicating diseases in the Southern Province.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, legislation is already available except that it is rarely enforced and we appeal to the hon. Members of Parliament and the Chiefs, in particular, to assist in this regard.

Thank you, Sir.

Miss Jere (Luangeni): Mr Speaker, as regards the ban on the export of livestock from the Eastern Province which has taken long to be lifted, when is the hon. Minister going to lift the ban to allow farmers have genuine prices?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, my ministry is taking immediate measures to undertake intensive vaccination of livestock in the Eastern Province so as to enable farmers export animals to other areas of the country. This also applies to other provinces.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr L. L. Phiri: Mr Speaker, from the half-baked answer given by the hon. Minister, can he tell this august House when that ban will be lifted.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the ban will only be lifted when we have those livestock diseases under control. This is being done in the interest of the farmers themselves.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muleya: Mr Speaker, in line with the answer the hon. Minister has given regarding the legislation which is in place, for which he wishes help from the Chiefs and other stakeholders to implement, I would like to know whether there is any specific desire or policy or arrangement by the Government to the effect that when there is an outbreak of disease and when there is persistence of disease, like has been the case in Zambia now, concerted effort is made to ensure that the disease is eradicated. Sir, it is not correct to leave it to the people who cannot afford it as there are a lot of people who keep animals, but are unable, in fact, to buy cariside in order to eradicate these diseases.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the old adage lives on. Prevention is better than cure. All the curative measures that are being taken will be futile if the farmers themselves do not help themselves. They have to start to learn to feed their livestock and not to throw their animals into the bush on an assignment to collect ticks, come and dip them and take them back on the same assignment. This way it can continue indefinitely. The neighbour who is a white farmer feeds his animals. Therefore, he is not affected by these diseases.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kalumiana: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives why in all his answers he has deliberately avoided committing himself to time frame. Why is it so? What are we supposed to tell our people concerning the interventions that he is telling us vis-a vis time frame?

Mr Speaker: I have to advise the hon. Member for Nalikwanda that, that is not a question, but a complaint. Therefore, the hon. Minister cannot answer a complaint of that nature.

Laughter.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, prevention is better than cure. When is Zambia going to do what neighbouring countries, Botswana in particular, are doing where dipping is not necessary because they have fenced off the game parks where the buffaloes that carry the blue ticks which infect livestock come from? So, when are we going to move on to prevention which the hon. Minister is embracing to fence off the game parks so that we do away with dip tanks that are not functioning effectively? 

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, we thank the experienced farmer, hon. Member for Luena (Mr Sibetta) for such a timely warning …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

Mr Speaker: When business was suspended, the House was considering Question No. 12 on the Order Paper. The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives was answering a supplementary question posed by the hon. Member for Luena (Mr Sibetta). 

May I guide the House that we still have a number of questions to go through. I know, of course, that this is the first time we are dealing with issues of the questions for oral answers. They can tend to be very interesting and can also tend to be very detailed. However, I suggest that the House listens very carefully to the answers being given by hon. Ministers in order to minimise the necessity for supplementary questions so that we can make progress. There will be more and more questions coming in the current five years.

May the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, please, continue.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government will consider fencing these areas mentioned by the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena (Mr Sibetta) and we appeal to all hon. Members of Parliament to assist in making sure that whatever fencing up will not be vandalised.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Munali.

Hon. Members: She is not in the House.

Mr Speaker: The question lapses; and so is the next one.

GWEMBE/CHIPEPO ROAD

16. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Works and Supply how much of the K500 million allocated for the rehabilitation of the Gwembe/Chipepo Road, as indicated in the Public Investment Programme 2001 – 2003, has so far been spent.

Dr Sondashi: Mr Speaker, the said figure of K500 million does appear in the 2001 to 2002 Public Investment Programme document. 

In the 2002 Budget the said road had a provision of K1 token due to the Budget ceiling limitations, meaning that there was no budget for this road. All the ceiling provisions on roads went to roads that had running contracts. In this regard, there was no provision for the rehabilitation of Gwembe/Chipepo Road in the 2002 Budget.

My ministry is implementing the activity-based Budget which requires that the Budget reflects the actual activity to be carried out. It, therefore, implies that if the funds are not adequate, the works cannot be executed.

The Public Investment Programme normally guides the Government on programmes and projects intended to be carried out over a period of time, in this case, three years. 

The rehabilitation of the road between Gwembe and Chipepo has been identified as one of the projects to be carried out. The estimated cost to maintain the road is not less than K1.5 billion, a figure indicated up to 2003.

Currently, the Public Investment Programme document is being revised to cover the period up to 2004 by revising costs in line with the current situation.

I may add, Mr Speaker, that what is contained in the Public Investment Programme is not always interpreted into the Budget because the Budget finds itself with less money with which to implement everything that is contained therein. I quite agree that this road requires urgent attention and so, I am making consultations with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to see whether he can find money which he can put in the supplementary budget so that we can do the road.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I wish to ask the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to be very specific and also to make an assurance on how quickly this work will commence.

Dr Sondashi: Mr Speaker, I cannot make an assurance because I do not control funds. If I was controlling funds, yes, I was going to make an assurance and get the money. But the portfolio of funds is before a very old man and he is very difficult, sometimes,…

Laughter.

Dr Sondashi: … to release money.

Thank you, Sir.

Laughter.

Mr Ntundu indicating to speak.

Mr Speaker: You are allowed only one supplementary question after your principal question.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, during the tour by the then Minister of Finance and Economic Development to publicise the 2000 Budget, at meetings held in Livingstone and Choma, he specifically assured the people of Southern Province that this road, which is well known as the ‘bottom road’, had been budgeted for and would be financed. May I know why the Government is pre-vacating instead of going ahead with the implementation of their assurances to the people of Southern Province.

Dr Sondashi: As far as I know, the only assurance which becomes difficult to break is one made before this House. So, assurances made outside the House cannot be brought before this House.

Thank you, Sir.

Laughter.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! For the record, that is not the ‘bottom road’, that is a different road.

REVISING AND BROADENING OF TAX BASE

16. Mr Ntundu asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning whether the Government has any intentions of revising methods of collecting tax and broadening the tax base in the year 2002.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, the Government does not have any intentions to revise methods of collecting tax in the current fiscal year. Thus, Government will continue to collect tax through its mandated agent, the Zambia Revenue Authority based on existing relevant legislation, including subsidiary laws enacted by Parliament for each tax type. That is under the Income Tax Act, the Customs and Exercise Act and the Value Added Tax Act as amended in the year 2002.

With regard to broadening the tax base, this is a policy matter that is under serious consideration, but will not be possible to implement in the current fiscal year. In fact, the Government has directed for a detailed study of the informal sector to be carried out with a view to coming up with recommendations on the optimal ways to increase the tax base. Once the report is ready, it will be presented to Government for consideration and approval. And a Bill will subsequently be put before this House for consideration.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware of the billions of kwacha that the Government is losing arising from the poor monitoring and inspection of tax? What measures is the Government putting in place to reduce this loss of revenue through poor methods of tax collection and poor monitoring?

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, the ministry is actually aware of the loss of revenue and we are putting methods in place so that we can tap all the lost revenue and bring it into the tax net.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Patel: Mr Speaker, arising from the answers given by the hon. Minister, it appears that the Government has accepted the position that all the tens of thousands of marketeers who do not pay tax can sleep well the whole of this year because you have no intention of collecting taxes from them.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, the administrative costs of collecting tax even from a marketeer has to be studied before you put the system in place.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the study includes re-introduction of poll tax in this country.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, all the methods of collecting tax or widening the tax base are being studied, and when the report is available, it will be brought to the House.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sichinga (Kafue): Mr Speaker, as a follow-up question, does the hon. Minister know that, in fact, the issue of collecting taxes from marketeers is being practised in other countries such as Uganda where Zambia learnt how to collect this type of revenue? Could he just confirm to this House that, in fact, this has not been studied by his own ministry in terms of how we can increase the tax base.

Mr Kalifungwa: I know Hon. Sichinga is a tax consultant, and if he has any better methods of collecting tax, he can pass them on to the ministry.

I thank you, Sir.

REPLACEMENT OF MONEY FOR ROAD CONSTRUCTION

17. Mr Moonde asked the Minister of Works and Supply what measures are being worked out to replace the money for road construction that has instead been paid to individual contractors to clear arrears.

Dr Sondashi: Sir, my ministry will request supplementary funding to cater for the payment of arrears in addition to the provisions made for the construction and the maintenance of roads and bridges. The provisions in the Budget for the construction and maintenance of the roads and bridges are inadequate for this purpose, let alone, if payment for arrears is included.

My ministry is also discussing the issue of outstanding payment of arrears with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning in order to find the possible way of clearing the arrears and still make available money for the construction and maintenance of the roads and bridges. 

Mr Speaker, when money has been paid to the contractor, if the contractor is owed arrears by the Government, that does not mean that the money which is paid is not being paid for the road. The difficulties that I am facing are, for instance, owing the contractor K19 billion while in the Budget there is only a provision of K2 billion. When you pay that K2 billion, obviously you cannot force the contractor to do a job of K2 billion because the contractor will say how can I do the job when you owe me K17 billion. That is the problem we have. So, what is happening is that the money is just going to contractors to pay off the arrears. That is why the roads are not seen to be done.

So, really what this House should do is to help us find ways of paying off these arrears. Until these arrears are paid, there will be no road construction taking place. We are prepared and we have the expertise and the energy to do the roads, but unfortunately, we are handicapped.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Moonde: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that there will be no repairs on any major roads this year. What has been happening, unfortunately, is that people out there believe that we have budgeted a certain amount of money for road construction and they expect services to be done on some roads. Will the hon. Minister, therefore, confirm that there will be no repairs, apart from the money given to the contractors and consultants.

Dr Sondashi: Mr Speaker, I cannot give a wholesome answer to that, but what I can say is that the answer is ‘yes and no’.

Interruptions.

Dr Sondashi: Yes, in the sense that if the Government owes a contractor money on a road, then obviously the money will just go to offsetting the arrears. No, in the sense that if the road is not owed money and it is estimated in the Budget this year, that money will go towards repairing that road. It also has to do with the source of funding. If the source of funding, for instance, is fuel levy and there is little money from fuel levy for the National Roads Board and the National Roads Board apportions money to the construction of that road whose contractor is not owed money, that work will be done. The answer depends on the situation.

For instance, on the Choma/Namwala Road, the answer is clear. Even if we put in money for that road, the money will go to the contractor. But if the money is for maintenance which has to go to a different contractor, that job can be done. So, this is how it works.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Shumina: Mr Speaker, now that the hon. Minister of Works and Supply has confirmed to this august House that the contracts they entered into vis-a-vis the construction of roads were made in such a way that the Government and the people of Zambia have lost a lot of money, and his ministry is in a state of helplessness, is it not in the interest of the nation for him to renegotiate the contracts?

Mr Sibetta: Winter maize.

Laughter.

Dr Sondashi: Mr Speaker, to renegotiate in what sense? If you owe someone money, for example, the K19 billion owed, how do you renegotiate? You can only renegotiate, if you have, at least K15 billion. Then you can ask the contractor whether you can pay him the K15 billion and have the interest waived. Something like that, maybe. But you must have some money to pay him because you are in a weaker position. Contractors are there to make money.

If you talk about renegotiating, I do not know what you mean.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Nkumbula-Liebenthal: Mr Speaker, after hearing what the hon. Minister has said, is the hon. Minister telling this august House that the New Deal Government after saying that they will deal with agriculture, roads and other things – it is like the fable, “The Emperor’s New Clothes?”

Laughter.

Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair hopes that the hon. Minister of Works and Supply has got hold of that proverbial king’s clothing. Maybe, she can clarify what that one means.

Mrs Nkumbula-Liebenthal: Mr Speaker, if I may clarify, in the fable, ‘The Emperor’s New Clothes’, the Emperor has no clothes at all, which means that the New Deal Government is naked, it has no money, it is broke.

Laughter.

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Minister, the question was: how can you implement the road programme when the Government has no money?

Dr Sondashi: Mr Speaker, the implementation of the road programme is coming. You may wish to know that I have talked about it. Members of Parliament must listen very carefully when Ministers are answering.

Laughter.

Dr Sondashi: Yes, because I explained here that our donor partners were willing to fund the road programme and the condition they have given is that we must implement the Road Transport Policy. Now, Cabinet passed the Road Transport Policy and what remains is for the hon. Minister of Legal Affairs to work out legislation which he will bring to this House and implement that Road Transport Policy. Once that is done, the donor partners are going to pump in US$800 million in road maintenance. This will be ROADSIP 2. It is a bundle of documents like that one ...

Laughter.

Dr Sondashi: It is not a laughing matter, this is true. I am telling you what is going to happen. So, this is what the Government is going to implement. So, as far as I am concerned, the New Deal administration is on course and they have clothes on and we are going to implement this.

Mr Tetamashimba: At least, you are being honest.

Dr Sondashi: Yes, I am being honest. Some things cannot be done because of the problem of arrears and you know how we got these arrears. And you know that previously there was no financial discipline in the system. The money was just going out and you have yourselves been dealing with this matter. Now that there will be financial discipline in the New Deal administration, I am sure that this problem will end.

I thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

INPUT LOANS

18. Mr Moonde asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives if the ministry can consider deferment of repayment of input loans granted to small-scale farmers because of drought this farming season.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives is currently undertaking the crop forecasting survey to get crop production estimates. There are indications from various sources that several parts of the country have been hit by the drought. However, the ministry will not make a blanket statement to defer repayment of inputs granted to small-scale farmers because of drought this farming season. The decision will be based on individual and area specific situations as will be recommended or indicated in the crop forecasting report.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Moonde: Mr Speaker, the answer from the hon. Minister appears to be shifting from his public stance so far on the matter. However, would he make it abundantly clear to the nation that the matter is still being reviewed and that there are people he has sent to find out the degree of the devastation. Currently, people are scared and very worried, especially when he gave us circulars to go and harass our own people in our constituencies to pay back the money, which money they do not have. I hope the hon. Minister can make a clear statement regarding this matter.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government’s stand is very clear. All the Government is saying is that the agents of the Government, through the Food Reserve Agency, are on the ground. They will, themselves, determine which are genuine excuses. Wherever farmers are unable to repay based on genuine grounds, their loan repayments will be deferred. In fact, this is what the farmers are asking for. But, we are, now, appealing to those hon. Members of Parliament and other leaders that are campaigning by telling the farmers not to pay, to desist from doing so.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair has been listening to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives. In so far as this question is concerned, he has been very clear and supplementary questions could actually divert the House to other issues. If there are other issues related to this question, which are not covered in here, the Chair would advise the hon. Members to follow up with new Questions for Oral Answer in the manner they would like to understand the issues. I will try one more hon. Member to find out whether what he or she is going to raise will be new and thus requiring clarification by the hon. Minister. I saw the hon. Member for Solwezi Central really struggling to ask a supplementary question.

Will you ask the question, please.

Mr Tetamashimba (Solwezi Central): Mr Speaker, we know that this Government has paid billions in terms of helping the mines. Last time, we also heard that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was even planning to bring legislation to this House so as to keep the mines moving when actually, we have been making losses as a result of their management. May I know why the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives has not given a blanket debt cancellation for all the poor people, not SGS or Cavmont, but the poor people who mostly got fertiliser because there were politicians within MMD who wanted to use that as a campaign tool.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: That supplementary question sounds irrelevant …

Laughter.

Mr Speaker: … unless the Government, through the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives can defend the position.

Mr L. L. Phiri: He will show leadership!

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the farmers themselves are asking the Government to defer their loans and not to write them off because they are aware that it is this fund that has got to be used as a revolving fund. We cannot refuse to implement what the farmers are asking us to do.

Thank you, Sir.

SUBSIDISED MAIZE

19.    Mrs Masebo (Chongwe) asked the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a)    which millers were supplied with Government subsidised maize by 31st March, 2002; and

(b)    why the prices of mealie meal sold by the millers have not been lowered.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the names of millers that were supplied with Government subsidised maize are contained in a schedule on a document that I will lay on the Table.

Interruptions.

Mr Sikatana: It is so long. If the hon. Members want me to read through the long list, I will do so.

Hon. Members: Yes!

Mr Sikatana: …

TABLE 4

The indicated millers supplied mealie meal to retailers at Government recommended retail prices of around K27,000 and K25,000 for breakfast and roller meal, respectively. The recommended retail prices did not include the cost of transport from the mills to retailers’ selling points. Some retailers and illegal traders had, however, taken advantage of the inadequate supply of the commodity by reselling it at exorbitant prices. Credible retailers continued to sell mealie meal within the recommended price ranges. 

Furthermore, the depreciation of the kwacha against the US dollar during the period under review, led to rising maize mill price per tonne in kwacha terms, hence pushing up the unit cost of production.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I realise that this question could have been taken over by events, but I think the Government should explain whether subsidies on maize have continued and why the price is still high. Sir, I am saying this because at the time when this question was prepared, I was aware that maize was being imported at US$160 per metric tonne. Currently, the price is US$210 per metric tonne by the same millers and yet at the time, the retail price was K35,000 and today, it is K33,000.

Mr Speaker, I am saying this because I am aware that the benefit of subsidy did not go to the intended persons and the Government lost a lot of money through subsidy. This is why I am raising this question and my hope, as I raise it, is that Government this time around will ensure that subsidies really reach the intended people as opposed to making briefcase businessmen and even genuine businessmen rich at the expense of the poor.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government intends to immediately gazette the list of the millers. As to the price, the landed price shot up, exceeding US$240 per metric tonne. Currently, there is a small amount of crop on the ground and this shortfall has started affecting the price. And we are, now, appealing to millers to pass the benefit onto the consumer. We are also aware that several millers entered into a memorandum of understanding with the Government to import more maize but there are no subsidies currently being paid to any importer or miller because that memorandum has expired.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr L. L. Phiri: The hon. Minister seems to be answering well. But I want him to be very factual this time. What measures has the Government put in place to make sure that the millers do not take advantage of the Government’s control by either using the maize, which the Government gave them or using the current maize? In fact, the prices have not changed. I came from Chipata, and the mealie-meal prices are still K35,000, K37,000 and K40,000, respectively. They are buying more maize from farmers and milling the same maize. What measures is the Government putting in place to ensure that these millers do not take advantage of the weaknesses of the Government’s control of what is happening?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, all measures are being taken to ensure that millers do not exploit the poor. We hold several meetings with millers and I will invite hon. Members in those areas where they think the millers are exploiting to join forces with Government and even attend our meetings so that we ensure that the people are protected.

 Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukwakwa: Sir, can the Government, through the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, confirm the reason why members of the public did not get the benefit of the measures the Government put in place. This is because a selected number of these millers had to pay back some money to the Government for reasons based on elections.

Mr Speaker: The Chair did not follow that question, but I hope the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives has followed it.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, there is no known evidence of any such allegations. Otherwise, if there were, we would take measures immediately. In fact, millers owe Government on the maize they were allocated sometime back and we are insisting they pay immediately or else we will take action. Just this morning, I gave appropriate instructions to that effect.

Thank you, Sir.

NATURAL RESOURCES DEVELOPMENT COLLEGE

20. Captain Moono asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives :

(a)    how much land was sold by the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) to the Zambia Export Growers’ Association (ZEGA) and how much it was sold for; and
(b)    how students are benefiting from ZEGA.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) has not sold any land to the Zambia Export Growers’ Association (ZEGA). Jointly, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives, NRDC and ZEGA created the NRDC-ZEGA Training Trust, NZTT, by signing a memorandum of understanding in 1998. The NZTT exists on the NRDC campus and its main function is to train human resource, specifically for the export horticultural industry. In the memorandum of understanding, NRDC was to make available and not to sell the following to ZNTT:

(i)    Fifty hectares of land which was to be developed into training and production facilities;

(ii)    one block of hostels with twelve rooms capable of accommodating up to forty-eight students and a basement used as a kitchen and dining room; and

(iii)    an office block with five offices to be used by the NZTT management team. This office block was erected and used by the Food Reserve Agency during the mid-1990s before they moved into town. After moving into town, FRA surrendered the office block to NRDC as per initial agreement entered into before the office block was erected. In the unlikely event that NZTT dissolves, all the items made available to NZTT will revert to NRDC. NZTT holds no title whatsoever to the items made available to it. The practical and production facilities set up on the 50 hectares of land by NZTT are available for use by the regular NRDC students in horticultural training. Currently, this is the only benefit. However, NZTT helps the horticultural export industry by promoting it through producing suitable human resource.

I thank, you, Sir.

Captain Moono: Sir, where did the hon. Minister get those facts that he has given to this august House? I ask because up to today, NRDC students are not allowed to do any practicals in those green houses owned by ZEGA. This is a fact. If he wants, we can go and prove it. NRDC is still there.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, it is obvious that the hon. Member got wrong facts …

Laughter.

Mr Sikatana: … because it should be distinguished that on the same campus, we have NZTT with its separate programmes and only students involved in the horticultural industry will use those premises. On the other hand, we do send out students for their practicals in various institutions and farms. As late as last month, I authorised the continued payments of allowances to students, which had been discontinued, and the students are happy with that arrangement.

Thank you, Sir.

Miss Nawakwi (Munali): Sir, is the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives aware that such Trusts are being hijacked? In the same vein, has he taken some time off to look at such Trusts like the ZRTT and the co-operative society in the show grounds? Do you have a full brief of what is happening, for example, in the show grounds at the co-operative society? I need a follow-up answer.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I am fully aware of the weaknesses that were there before …

Laughter.

Mr Sikatana: … but we have taken the necessary measures and there is great improvement. I am also assuring this House that these Trusts are meant for the benefit of this country and wherever we found weaknesses like at the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC), - I found one pig there and, no doubt, this was a shameful record, but we are doing all we can and there are measures that are already bearing fruit.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, the NRDC has a perennial problem of closures. Can the hon. Minister tell this House how many intakes under this Trust agreement the Trust has enrolled for students to study horticulture?

Mr Speaker: I think there is a specific question on this subject later on; but if the hon. Minister wishes to answer that question, he is free to do so.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I wish to handle that aspect when we come to Question No. 21, with your permission.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, we have been told that the NRDC-ZEGA Training Trust (NZTT) is not involved in the sale of land at the Natural Resources Development College. However, I would like the hon. Minister to state to this House, in real terms, the measures that his ministry has undertaken to help the college stop the illegal squatters taking over the college’s land.

Mr Speaker: That is an urgent question!

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, immediately upon learning of the encroachment on the NRDC Campus, I took immediate measures and requested the Provincial Minister, the police and all relevant authorities to move in and they have succeeded except that we traced the bad egg to have been one person who was assigning land illegally but we will not part with a single …

Hon. Opposition Members: MMD!

Mr Sikatana: … square metre of that campus or any other piece of land belonging to any of our institutions.

Thank you, Sir.

REDUCED NUMBER OF STUDENTS

21. Captain Moono asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives why the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) has reduced the number of students enrolled at the college for the 2001/02 intake.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, it is not true that NRDC has reduced the intake for 2001/02. Ever since the In-Service Training Trust (ISTT), another Trust, was established at NRDC in 1995, the annual intake for the regular NRDC diploma students has ranged between 110 and 120 students.

Thus, the total student population at any one time is around 300. For the 2001/02 intake, there were actually 124 students. But due to natural attrition (withdrawals due to illness and other reasons), four students have left.

Before ISTT was established, the intake used to be about 150 per year. But then, two hostels were set aside for ISTT to run short refresher courses in agriculture and natural resources and this resulted in the reduction of the diploma intake to about 120 per year.

I thank you, Sir.

Captain Moono: Mr Speaker, I am aware of the Government’s intention to diversify our economy into agriculture. What measures are put in place at NRDC, which is a cornerstone college for the training of personnel, to spearhead this revolution which you have embarked on, to increase the intake and improve the surroundings, especially after the ICASA destruction?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has released K500 million to the college and to each of the other colleges for immediate renovations and desired extensions. We can assure the nation, through this House, that everything is being done to revive the training centres along side the NRDC so that we can increase the intake and improve the tuition and bring out graduates who will be practical.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Moonde: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that currently, there are no animals at NRDC on which students can do their practical lessons and that buildings are falling apart? If he is, what steps is he taking to ensure that the situation is brought to normal?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, arising out of the disbursement from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, everything is being done to restock the animals at not only NRDC but all colleges, including the intention to contain diseases of livestock at these institutions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, earlier, the hon. Minister mentioned that there was only one pig when he took over. I wonder whether it is the intention of the hon. Minister and his ministry to award or honour his predecessor, who was blamed for the destruction of that college by naming the library of that college after his predecessor and people in the ministry who are responsible for destroying that college.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Sikatana: I have no comment on that question, as it is not relevant to the question before the House.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: That is a public institution.

Miss Nawakwi: Mr Speaker, it is all very good to hear from the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives that the Government has allocated K500 million to the college for refurbishment. Is the hon. Minister aware that that amount is so meagre that the college cannot even replace cooking pots. If he is aware, what efforts is he making to ensure that a project, which was started to upgrade the standards at the college to be jointly implemented with the European Union, as the Horticultural Trust, is implemented? Is he aware that, in fact, that college could attract students from other countries in the region if only we could upgrade the standards of accommodation, education and gave the college a curriculum that was relevant to farmers. Is he aware and should he be isolating NRDC  …

Hon. Government Members: You were there.

Miss Nawakwi: So what? I was there and if I stayed longer, I would have created a good  …

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Munali is an old and experienced hand in this House and what she is doing is exactly what they want; to set you on the wrong course and begin bilateral debate with them. May the hon. Member, please, address the Chair and ask your question. 

Miss Nawakwi: Mr Speaker, I had started a very good project. That is why the hon. Minister is proud of the Trust and I would have extended it to the college. The idea is to make NRDC have the same standard as Mananga. Would the hon. Minister not be in order to plead with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for extra funds and revive the very good project between the Government and the European Union? Maybe, he is not aware. Is he aware, Mr Speaker?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I am aware of the failures that were at the college...

Laughter.

Mr Sikatana: …even during the tenure of office of the hon. Member, including the burning of the orchard that was feeding the college. I am also aware that I found the draft for the Trust that the hon. Member is so proud of, gathering dust and we have dusted it and are ready to implement it immediately to the advantage of the college.

Thank you, Sir.

HERD OF CATTLE STOLEN

22. Colonel Makumba (Sikongo) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives how many herd of cattle were stolen at gunpoint along the Zambia/Angola border in the Western Province between January, 2000 and March, 2002.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, 423 herd of cattle were reported stolen at gunpoint along the Zambia/Angola border in the Western Province, specifically in the Sikongo area of Kalabo between January, 2000 and March, 2002.

I thank you, Sir.

Colonel Makumba: Mr Speaker, in view of what the hon. Minister has said, may I know what measures he is taking to recover those animals.

Laughter.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government is taking measures, not only to try and recover those animals, but to stop any further thefts of animals in that area and anywhere else in the country.

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Shumina: Mr Speaker, the revelation by the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives is an entire indication of Government’s negligence of its people’s welfare. Now that the hon. Minister is aware of the number of animals that were stolen, can he assure this House that he will compensate the people of Sikongo for the loss?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, no consideration has been taken to compensate any losses as the loss cannot be traced to any negligence on the part of Government.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, in the good old days, the border between Angola and Zambia used to be cleared annually and it included the cordon line, it was bi-annually cleared. Since this Government came to power ten years ago, the border has been neglected and it is no longer identifiable and the Angolans are able to come in and go without control. What measures is the Government putting in place, through your ministry, to re-clear the border and the cordon line so that Angolans do not come in and go without any trace?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government has immediately put measures in place and as late as last month, my own Permanent Secretary was at the border with security personnel. The Ministry of Finance and National Planning has just approved the employment of guards and other personnel to clear the cordon line and the international borders and to ensure that both borders are patrolled, except for the fact, Mr Speaker, that the Government has to recruit experts because of the fear of landmines in the area.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Wamulume: Mr Speaker, the submission that I wanted to make has been covered by the hon. Member for Luena, but I want to say that this problem is not only in Sikongo. Almost all the constituencies in the Western Province are affected. The number of animals that the hon. Minister has mentioned is only for Sikongo. What about animals in other constituencies like Liuwa, Nalolo and Sinjembela? In all those areas animals are being stolen at gunpoint and even in the North-Western Province.

What measures is the Government taking to control the theft of cattle in the whole of the Western Province? People are being shot at and cattle are being stolen because there are no people to guard those areas, especially the cordon line. In the UNIP Government, the cordon line was always guarded. It was never left unattended to. What measures are you taking to even guard the cordon line because that is where the problem comes from? All the guns that are in the Western Province are from Angola, and are brought in through that same cordon line which is left unguarded.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the same measures that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs stated in this House that are being taken will bear fruit sooner than later.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Siakafuswa: Mr Speaker, I wonder whether the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives is aware that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, in his Budget Speech, talked of a fund which is meant to curb animal diseases and restock animals which have died of diseases. If he is aware, would he be in a position to answer the questions which are rightly being asked?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, I am aware of all those measures that were included in the Budget, and I can assure the hon. Member of Parliament that measures are now being taken. You do not start by restocking when the disease is on the ground. We start with measures to bring the diseases under control and that is what is being done presently.

Thank you, Sir. {mospagebreak}

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I am worried with the statement made by the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives that there are no considerations for compensating those who lost their animals as a result of thefts from Angola. He has, further, stated that it was because there was no negligence on the part of the Government. 

I wonder if this statement should be understood to mean that the Government that the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives is representing is abrogating its responsibility for providing security to its citizens and their property.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, this Government is serious. It had strained personnel. In other words, we were so short of personnel on the ground as can be supported by hon. Members from that region. They knew that, in fact, patrols which were along the corridor had disappeared because it was within the war zone. Unless we undertake the current measures, the situation will be worsened. 

On compensation, under those war conditions, we are appealing to the outside world so that they may assist first to bring under control the rampaging gun trotters around there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Compensation!

Mr Sikatana: As regards compensation measures that may be taken, …

Interruptions.

Mr Sikatana: … Mr Speaker, will be on a case to case basis of those that will report that their cattle were stolen and if it is proved to be a genuine case, the Government from time to time will consider them. However, there is no blanket measure.

I thank you, Sir.

ABDUCTED NATIONALS

23. Colonel Makumba asked the Minister of Home Affairs how many Zambian nationals from the Western Province were abducted into Angola between January, 1999 and March, 2002.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, from January 1999 to March, 2002, there were 261 Zambian nationals abducted into Angola. The issue of abduction was resolved through the existing diplomatic channels.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Situmbeko: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs aware that out of the fifty-nine Zambians who were abducted from Sinjembela, only fifty-two arrived in this country on 1st July, 2002? From these fifty-two, one child died on the way. Further, on 18th July, 2002, seven were repatriated from Njamba to Zambia. These people were tortured. They were made to work hard in hunger situations.

Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Home Affairs explain what negotiations this Government made to bring back these people. When were these negotiations made if the people only arrived this month? Which negotiations did you undertake and for which people?

Laughter.

Mr Mapushi: Mr Speaker, I am fully aware of the abduction and the return of those people, but as I have said, these issues are done through the normal diplomatic channels that exist between Angola and Zambia. 

As a matter fact, Mr Speaker, next month, I will be travelling to Angola for the purpose of ensuring that what existed in the last twenty-five years, mainly the fighting on the border, does not continue. In other words, we, as a Government, would like to ensure that there is peace on the border between Angola and Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Colonel Makumba: Mr Speaker, my question has been overtaken by the other questions. 

LOCAL GOVERNMENT DEBT BURDEN

24. Mr Patel asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    what the total debt burden of local councils in Zambia was by 31st January, 2002;

(b)    how the Government proposed to pay the debt in (a) above; and

(c)    how much of this debt is owed to the Local Government Pension Fund.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Chitala): Mr Speaker, in response to the question raised by the hon. Member for Lusaka Central, I wish to inform the House that the total debt burden of local councils in Zambia by 31st January, 2002, stood at K84.5 billion. This is the total sum for the various components of debt, including among others unpaid salaries and wages, unremitted statutory obligations such as Pay-As-You-Earn to the Zambia Revenue Authority. The debt burden also includes the annual assessment fees to Workers’ Compensation Fund and unremitted employees contributions to LASF, unpaid retirees benefits, legal costs, unsettled electricity and telephone bills as well as the fifty per cent salary increment awarded to unionised employees in councils last year in September.

The Government, through the Minister of Local Government and Housing, has proposed to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to pay this debt in the following ways:

(i)    to dismantle the debt burden in installments, starting with unpaid salaries, wages and arrears arising from the fifty per cent salary increment awarded to all unionised employees in councils last year. I wish to report that this money was paid today. Ten billion kwacha has been paid to cover all the seventy-two councils;

(ii)    to consider special funding to Local Authorities Superannuation Fund to enable it pay benefits to retirees and reduce arrears in form of unremitted employees’ contributions.

(c)    out of the total debt of K84.5 billion that councils owe to both internal and external creditors, an amount of K24.1 billion was owed to the Local Authority Superannuation Fund (LASF) in unremitted employees’ pension contributions by 31st January, 2002.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukwakwa: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm or deny that these problems are arising because of the new culture of change in the policy of how local governments are financed. Mr Speaker, this is because they changed the manner in which the …

Mr Speaker: No debating, please, ask your question.

Mr Mukwakwa: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm whether the bad policy of not understanding how local government is financed is what has brought these problems on the councils.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, that is a new question, suffice to say that the Government is making every effort to ensure that all our people in local councils are paid.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the K10 billion he stated as having been released is not sufficient to cover all the arrears. If he does not clarify the statement, we are going to face problems in the various councils because workers will, probably, go on strike believing that money has been given to them and yet, the Government has not released sufficient monies to clear these arrears.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, the reference made to the K10 billion, which was paid today to the seventy-two councils, is not questionable. I explicitly said that this money is meant to settle the fifty per cent salary increment that was awarded in September last year. This, unfortunately, does not include the normal arrears, which are in excess of K30 billion.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, arising from the clarification by the hon. Minister, could he inform the House when the money for the other arrears is going to be paid? At councils like Zambezi, workers have gone without pay for eighteen months. When are these workers likely to be paid their arrears?

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, as hon. Members will agree with me,...

Interruptions.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister may address the Chair.

Mr Chitala: The arrears, Sir, were not provided for in our Budget Estimates for this year. However, because we are a concerned Government…

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chitala: … the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is considering all possible ways of raising resources to ensure that before the end of this year, our people are paid all their salary arrears.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, it is clear that the problem of salaries is going to last for a long time, going by the fact that the houses, where most councils were raising their resources from, were taken away through the policy of Home Ownership. What plans has the ministry got as a long-term solution to enable councils be in a sustainable position to pay salaries as it was before the Home Ownership Scheme? 

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, it is true that the financial base of local councils has been eroded and that it is incumbent upon our Government to find creative ways in which our councils can raise resources to run their affairs. In this perspective, the Government will be considering, within a few weeks from now, ideas of raising these resources and the public will be informed accordingly.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, from the answers given by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, can the Government, through the Leader of Government business in the House, confirm if this Government is going to overtax Zambians for the sake of their inefficiencies.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chitala: Sir, as agreed, again, by everybody, that is not a question, but I wish to say that we do not cherish the idea of overtaxing our citizens. In fact, our Government is so mindful as it knows that our people are the most highly taxed in this part of the world. Therefore, we would like to reduce personal tax wherever possible. On the other hand, this country has to move forward. We will ensure that we extend the tax base so that money can be raised to enable all the programmes of our Government run efficiently and effectively.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, I understand the hon. Minister only gave K10 billion  for arrears. May I know what the Government is going to do for the councils that are able to pay salaries and yet do not get any assistance from the Government. My understanding is that for a council to get money from the Government, it should be in arrears. What is the Government doing for councils like Kalomo that manage to pay their salaries on time?

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, most councils, right now, are unable to meet all their obligations. That is why I said that the Government was working out ways and means of ensuring that the councils run independently. As of now, the K10 billion which I announced, earlier on, was to pay for the fifty per cent salary increment which was awarded last year only. And it will go to all the seventy-two councils without exception.

Thank you, Sir.

Miss Nawakwi: Mr Speaker, I am concerned. Following the answer given by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, it appears there is no tangible development programme for resuscitating this country. Is the hon. Minister aware that there is no government on earth that ever succeeds without a viable local government administrative system? That is the reason his predecessors failed, by the way. Is he aware?

Laughter.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, I know that local government is the panacea for driving a country forward, but I am not aware that my predecessor failed. As far as we are concerned, we will succeed and this is our obligation to this country.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

COBALT SALES AUDIT REPORT

25. Mr Patel asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning when the cobalt sales audit report will be publicised as agreed between the IMF and the Government in their letters of intent signed in 2001.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, Government contracted CDCM of Mauritius and registered in Zambia to carry out the cobalt sales audit. There has been a delay in the publication of the report due to funding shortfalls. However, the report is finally ready and the Government is studying it. As soon as Government is ready, the report will be publicised.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Patel: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister be more specific as to when he thinks the Government will be ready. Is it this year or next year or the year after?

Mr Kalifungwa: Well, I think getting ready does not take seven years, I mean if the report is here already, it will only take six weeks for the report to be publicised.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Haakaloba: Mr Speaker, I would like to know the period it will take for the report to be publicised because I am aware of reports such as the Gabon Disaster Report ……

Mr Speaker: The Chair had guided the House to listen when the Government is answering. That question has already been answered. He said within six weeks. I heard it myself. So, begin counting from today to ascertain if the assurance will be met accordingly.

Mr Moonde: Mr Speaker, maybe, I can take advantage of this parliamentary question to find out from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning whether we are going to be told officially, as Parliament, the outcome of the CG Meeting held in Livingstone so as to enable us appreciate the outcome.

Mr Speaker: Order! The question may not be relevant but it is important.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, those were very important deliberations, and I do know, for sure, that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will come with a statement which will be presented to the House.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, related to the Cobalt Report, could the hon. Minister indicate to this House, if it is undertaking a study of the losses experienced in the sale of copper, which was reported at the same time as the Cobalt Report. And if it is not being done, could he indicate to this House when it is likely to be done.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, in terms of flaws, where these existed and identified, auditing is taking place.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sibetta: Mr Speaker, we saw the draft report before the House adjourned sine die for General Elections and it is assumed that the report is ready. When is the nation going to be told of the arrest of the culprits who stole the cobalt? We are not interested in the audit; we want the arrest of the people who stole cobalt.

Laughter.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, when reports are made, if any flaws or thefts are reflected, the law takes its course. So, it is not up to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to determine who has stolen and who has not.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, going by the answers being given by the hon. Minister, it seems that as a Government there is nothing we can do on our own without the IMF directing us what to do. My question is, if there was no letter of intent, and no money was asked for, were you, as a Government, going to be transparent enough to publicise this audit report?

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, if you remember, the commitment of this Government is transparency and good governance. So, everything was going to be put on the Table for everybody to see. That is the good governance and transparency we are propagating.

I thank you, Sir.

CHIEFS’ REMUNERATION

26. Mr L. L. Phiri asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    how much money, in form of remuneration, were the following categories of Chiefs entitled to by 31st December, 2001:
(i)    Paramount Chiefs;
(ii)    Senior Chiefs; and
(iii)    ordinary Chiefs; and

(b)    when these remunerations will be adjusted upwards.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the remunerations for Chiefs’ by 31st December 2001 were as follows: Paramount Chiefs – K265,000 per month; Senior Chiefs – K229,425 per month and ordinary Chiefs K204,188 per month.

Normally the remunerations of Chiefs are adjusted upwards when all other remunerations are adjusted in the Civil Service. To this effect, the Ministry of Local Government and Housing has already written to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning for supplementary funding so that the 80 per cent increment given to the civil servants can also be given to the Chiefs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. L. Phiri: Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister shed light to this august House on why this very small allowance which the Government is giving to the Chiefs has not been paid every month as promised. It is, now, five months and going to six months since our Chiefs in the Eastern Province and the country at large were last paid their allowances.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, although that is a new question, when we go to our offices, we will endeavour to ensure that all the salaries that are due to our Chiefs are paid.

I thank you.

Mr C. R. Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing whether he knows that the poverty of the Chiefs has extended to even lacking national flags at their palaces and whether he also knows that their retainers, the Kapasos, do not have uniforms. One cannot distinguish a Kapaso from a Chief if one is visiting the palace for the first time.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! That kind of question reminds the Chair to guide the House. There are things or issues that may be raised as a matter of policy in the House, but there are many others which you, the hon. Members of Parliament, can raise directly with the offices of hon. Ministers. Those are operational issues, if a Kapaso or retainer has no uniform, you see what can be done. If there is no flag flying at your traditional headquarters, see the relevant ministry for assistance. It does not help much to wait until this House meets several weeks or months later in order to correct such an anomaly.

These are details which you can discuss directly with Ministers who are the servants of the people. All of you are free to do so. I thought I should give you guidance because waiting to correct things, which have gone wrong until the House meets, does not help at all.

Miss Nawakwi: Mr Speaker, we heard from our President that Chiefs are, now, going to be credit managers. Would the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing tell us in this House whether the Chiefs are going to be given extra allowances and vehicles to make sure that the people who borrow fertiliser pay back to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives. 

Mr Speaker: Order! That question is for the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing and not for the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives. Is the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing able to answer it?

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, the duties of Chiefs are provided for in the appropriate laws of our country which the Ministry of Local Government and Housing manages. The question that has been raised by the hon. Member for Munali (Miss Nawakwi) is a new one and I am sure it is misdirected. Maybe, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives can answer it.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTITUENCY DEVELOPMENT FUNDS

27. Mr L. L. Phiri asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing:

(a)    how much money, in the form of Constituency Development Fund, was released between September and December, 200; and 

(b)    which constituencies benefited and when those that did not benefit will do so.

Mr Chitala: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the answer which was provided on this question was not complete and I wish to beg the indulgence of the House that I may be permitted to come and answer the question at a later date.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: According to the procedures of this House, the question has lapsed. The Chair would extend its generosity on this matter as follows: let the hon. Member for Chipangali re-submit the question for processing.

Mr L. L. Phiri: Show leadership imwe!

Laughter.

DAM CONSTRUCTION

28. Mr Nang’omba asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development how many dams were constructed in the Southern Province between January, 2000 and December, 2001.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Manjata): Mr Speaker, …

Laughter.

Mr Manjata: … there were seventeen dams which were constructed in the Southern Province between January 2000 and December 2001.

Interruptions.

Mr Manjata: Eighteen dams were rehabilitated.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The House was enjoying the hon. Minister’s voice so much …

Laughter.

Mr Speaker: … that it did not pay attention to the answer he was giving. The consolation is that, by tomorrow, the hon. Members may extract from the verbatim report the answer they need.

Laughter.

RURAL ELECTRIFICATION FUND

29. Mr Nang’omba asked the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a)    how many projects in the country benefited from the Rural Electrification Fund from January to December, 2001; and

(b)    what are the names of the projects that benefited in the Southern Province.

Mr Manjata: Mr Speaker, there were nineteen projects in the country that benefited from the Rural Electrification Fund from January to December 2001. The following are the projects that benefited in the Southern Province:

(i)    Gwembe/Tonga Development Project
(ii)    Itezhi-Tezhi in Namwala District
(iii)    Maala Village in Namwala
(iv)    Sikalongo Mission in Choma

Mr Speaker, I wish to lay the document on the Table so that hon. Members of Parliament can see how the monies spent on these projects were utilised.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Manjata laid the document on the Table.

TABLE 5

HIPC FUNDS

30. Mr Shumina asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a)    how much money from the HIPC funds was released to Kaoma District in the year 2001.

(b)    which projects benefited and how much money was allocated to each project; and

(c)    in which constituencies were these projects.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, a total of K164,398,000 was paid to Kaoma District for ninety-four HIPC projects. This amount was K34,398,000 above the actual planned expenditure of K130 million.

Secondly, a total of ninety-four projects benefited from the HIPC funds.

Thirdly, the ninety-four projects are in three constituencies of Kaoma District as follows:

TABLE 6

Mr Speaker, due to the large number of projects in the schedule, I hereby table the list of projects that were funded. With your permission, I will lay them on the Table.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kalifungwa laid the paper on the Table.

PROJECTS THAT BENEFITED FROM HIPIC FUNDS RELEASED IN 2001 TO KAOMA DISTRICT CONSTITUENCY BY CONSTITUENCY

TABLE 6

Mr Shumina: Mr Speaker, three quarters of these projects are non-obtainable on the ground. Is the hon. Minister intending to send officers from his ministry to physically inspect these projects?

Mr Kalifungwa: Due to the flaws that were there in terms of the HIPC implementation, we have put in place a HIPC tracking mechanism to track the money when it is expended.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sichinga: Mr Speaker, in the light of the serious allegations that have been made about the misuse of HIPC funds, could the hon. Minister confirm to this House that the Government is making an assurance that this House will be afforded a full report on what has taken place with the HIPC funds that were released, especially during the year 2001.

Mr Kalifungwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is confirming that the House will be availed the report.

Thank you, Sir.

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mapushi): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

The House adjourned at 1812 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 24th July, 2002