Debates- Friday, 23rd February, 2007

Printer Friendly and PDF


Friday, 23rd February, 2007

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]





The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 27th February, 2007, the business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Report Stage of the National Payment Systems Bill. Thereafter, the House will continue with the policy debate on the Motion of Supply on this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure.

On Wednesday, 28th February, 2007, the business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider private Members’ motions, if there will be any.

Sir, on this day, the Expanded Committee on Estimates, which co-opted all Chairpersons of the Portfolio Committees and the Chairperson of the Public Accounts Committee and was mandated to consider this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure, will present its report. Thereafter, the House will conclude the general policy debate on the Motion of Supply and the House will then resolve into Committee of Supply.

On Thursday, 1st March, 2007, the business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply and begin consideration of individual Heads of Expenditure in this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure. The following Heads will be considered:

Head 01 Office of the President – State House;
Head 02 Office of the Vice-President;
Head 03 National Assembly; and
Head 05 Electoral Commission.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, 2nd March, 2007, the business of the House will begin with the Vice-President’s Question Time. Then, the House will consider Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply of this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the following Heads:

Head 06 Public Service Commission – Office of he President;
Head 07 Office of the Auditor-General;
Head 08 Cabinet Office – Office of the President; and
Head 09 Teaching Service Commission – Office of the President.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.




333. Mr Sejani (Mapatizya) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources what measures the Government had taken to stop the mushrooming of illegal guest houses in the country.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, in order to curb the running of illegal guest houses, my ministry, together with the Zambia National Tourist Board, has been sending officers in the field to ensure that all illegal guest houses are licensed and registered. It has been difficult to locate some of the guest houses, especially those behind high concrete walls without any sign posts. Therefore, my ministry depends on the information from concerned Zambians on such operations. I must admit that enforcing the law on guest houses has been a challenge to my ministry. This is because guest houses are a recent phenomenon of early 2000 which was not addressed at the time the existing legislation was enacted. However, knowing the importance of this development to the empowerment of local people, guest houses falling below a minimum required number of 10 bed spaces for the smallest hotels have been given special treatment. To this effect, licenses have been given to guest houses whose owners have come forward or those that the ministry has come across. It is for this reason that the Tourism and Hospitality Bill that the Government will bring to Parliament this year will address this matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, is there a policy that is supposed to guide us in the establishment of guest houses? I know that the hon. Deputy Minister has talked about the minimum number of spaces that is required, but there should be other standards that one must meet in order to turn their residential house into a guest house. What are these?

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I have already said that this is a new phenomenon and it was not covered in the first legislation that was enacted in this Parliament. This is the reason we are now preparing a new Bill that will be presented to Parliament.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm that the mushrooming of illegal guest houses is partly due to the fact that there are so many different licences that an hotelier or a guest house proprietor has to get under the tourism sector? If these were streamlined, we would not have so many, perhaps, people who would be more inclined to legalise operations.

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Pande): Mr Speaker, the mushrooming of illegal guest houses was not because of licences, but because it is a new phenomenon as indicated. People are responding to the call to venture into tourism. One of the reasons is that those who are establishing guest houses without following the normal procedures have just taken advantage of the need for accommodation, particularly in the hon. Member’s constituency.

When people go to Livingstone, they find all the hotels and other established guest houses fully booked. Therefore, people have taken advantage of this situation and have established guest houses which help to accommodate guests who cannot find accommodation in the hotels. It is such guest houses that are in brick walls and there have no sign posts. We really depend on the people of Zambia, including the hon. Members to bring to our attention where they see an establishment which they suspect not to have been registered. We have powers to close such an institution.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has said that there will be a Bill to streamline the operations of various guest houses. May I know whether the mushrooming of guest houses will continue without any other regulations being in place now to control them?

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, it will not continue because as earlier indicated, the Bill will take care of such guest houses. It is a Bill that we should all look forward to because it is for our benefit. If you go round the townships these days, you will find a guesthouse and next to it, is something called a lodge and next to the lodge will be something called an inn. All that will be streamlined when we indicate what is supposed to be a guesthouse, lodge or hotel.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, why is the ministry or the Tourist Board not working with the councils that are aware of what businesses go on in their areas?

Mr Pande: Mr Speaker, when the Deputy Minister indicated that members of staff from my ministry were going round the country in liaison with the councils to ascertain how many guesthouses there were. It has come to light during this exercise that some council workers are issuing licences for the establishment of guesthouses illegally. So far, they have been to the Southern, Copperbelt and other provinces. In short, we are working with the councils.

I thank you, Sir.


334. Mr Sejani asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:
(a) what the current copper price on the London Metal Exchange was; and

(b) whether this price represented an increase or a decrease compared to the same period in 2005 and 2006.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, the question was asked in January. At the time we were giving the answer on 3rd January, 2007, the price of copper was US $5,785 per tonne. 
In answer to (b), on the same date in 2006, the price of copper was US $4,537.00 per tonne. On 3rd January, 2005, the price was US $3,133.50 per tonne. From US $3,133.50 in 2005 to US $4,537 in 2006 and US $5,785 in 2007, clearly shows that there has been an increase in that period.

I thank you, Sir.


335. Mr Sejani asked the Minister of Justice:

(a) how many people were sentenced to death by the Zambian Courts of Law from 2001 to date; and

(b) how many of the sentences were actually carried out.

The Deputy Minister of Justice (Mr Machila): Mr Speaker, there were a total of forty-one people sentenced to death between 2001 and none of the sentences have been carried out to-date.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why we should keep on our statute books as law that will never be observed?

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda): Mr Speaker, the question was whether the death penalty should be retained on our statute books or be abolished. It is a very contentious issue that is being addressed through the whole Constitution review process. In the Mung’omba Draft Constitution and the debates that followed when this issue was tabled, it was one of the Terms of Reference of the Constitution Review Commission. I think the majority of those who submitted were in favour of the death penalty. However, His Excellency the President has indicated publicly that he will not sign any warrant of execution. So, you can see that the people of Zambia want the death penalty, but the President does not want.

For the time being, the death penalty will remain on our statute books until it is reviewed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, from the answer given by the hon. Learned Minister of Justice, I would like to find out from him whether it is not mental torture for people who have been sentenced to death, and yet they do not know when they are going to be executed?

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, as I said, this is debatable. Those who commit crime and are on the death roll could have killed about ten to thirty people and the families of the victims are also tormented. So, how do you balance the two; which one of them is mental torture?

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the President has refused to sign any death warrants. So, people who have been sentenced to death will not be executed. Could their sentences not be reduced to life imprisonment instead of them waiting for execution which will never be carried out?

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that important question. In Zambia, when the courts pass a death sentence, before a person is hanged, there is a procedure that has to be followed. We have what we call the Prerogative of Mercy Committee that looks at cases of persons sentenced to death. This committee has been very active since 2001. You must have read through the papers that a number of people sentenced to death have had their sentenced commuted to life imprisonment or to terminable sentences. We are doing everything possible to look into these cases through the established constitutional provisions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. K. Banda (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, could my hon. Friend, the Minister of Justice tell the House …

Mr Imenda: On a point of order, Sir!

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Imenda: Mr Speaker, I raise a point of order on the Minister of Works and Supply who is not in the House, but noting that he is the leader of Government housing followed by the Deputy Minister of Works and Supply.

Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Works and Supply in order to keep quiet when the pontoon which is linking the Western Province to the North-Western Province through the Watopa River has not been working since 10th February, 2007, making it impossible for the people travelling from Lukulu to Kabompo and vice-versa to cross the river. Is he in order to bring traffic to a halt in areas which are so much in need?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Lukulu East has raised an administrative point of order which the Executive can investigate and act upon. The hon. Member for Chasefu, on the other hand, was raising a supplementary question, can he continue.

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, may my hon. Friend and Minister of Justice tell the House whether the President has the discretion not to follow the law requiring him to sign a death warrant after all the legal formalities, following the sentencing to death of an accused person.

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, my learned friend used to be a Solicitor-General of the Republic. The committee of the Prerogative of Mercy makes its recommendations to the President and the President has the discretion whether to accept or reject such a recommendation. In most cases, where recommendations have been made, the president has decided to commute the death sentence to life imprisonment or a terminable sentence of say twenty or thirty years. He is entitled to do that.


336. Mr Sejani asked the Minister of local Government and Housing:

(a) what the current housing deficiencies in Zambia were; and 
(b) how many new houses the Government had built in Zambia since January, 2001, year by year.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House as follows:

(a) no comprehensive study has been undertaken by the Government in the recent past to ascertain the exact housing deficiency of various categories of houses in Zambia. However, Mr Speaker, the 1996 statistics in the National Housing Policy show that the overall housing backlog was approximately 846,000 units. Currently, it is estimated that the housing deficiencies have not exceeded 1,000,000 housing units; and

(b) the number of houses built by the Government in Zambia through different actors under my ministry since January 2001, is 1,282 broken down as follows:

Number of Houses Built by the Government from 2001 to 2006

Implementing  Number of New Houses Built
Agency   2001 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 Total
National Housing
Authority (NHA) 94 133 113 150 187 149 826
Zambia Low Cost
Housing Development
Fund Trust (Former
African Housing Fund) 65 122 116 50 52 30 435
Other Contractors
Engaged by MLGH      21  21
Grand Total  159 255 229 200 239 200   1,282

Now that the Government has introduced the National Housing Programme, plans are underway to undertake a housing stock survey so that current statistics are readily available for planning purposes.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I was not very happy with the answer given that the current backlog is not known, and yet in 1996, it is clearly known that there was a backlog of about 800,000. Why is this Government not able to estimate the current backlog?

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, firstly, apart from the Government, we have a number of other contractors who have been constructing houses in the country since that time. In addition, we also have other sector ministries who are constructing houses. Therefore, it takes time for us to get such details. Unfortunately, in the past few years, we have not budgeted for this exercise. Now that we have put in place a National Housing Programme, we have started getting the exact figures taking into account not only houses that have been constructed under my ministry, but also other sector ministries, including the private sector.

I thank you, Sir.


337. Mr Sejani asked the Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development:

(a) when the construction of the three promised ultra-modern stadiums would commence; and

(b) where they would be built.

Mr Speaker: The Minister is not in the House.

Hon. Opposition Members: He is! 

The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Namulambe): Mr Speaker, the Government’s policy is to provide modern and appropriate sports infrastructure. In line with this policy, Cabinet, in 2004, approved in principle the construction of three ultra-modern stadia using the Build Operate and Transfer (BOT) approach in Lusaka, Livingstone and Ndola.

However, because of the poor response, this could not take effect, but the Chinese Government has offered to build one stadium in Ndola and very soon construction of the stadium will commence.

Mr Speaker, as a Government, we are still looking for funds to build stadiums in Lusaka and Livingstone. For now, due to limited resources, we have plans to upgrade the Independence Stadium to international standard. So far, the Government has provided for K30 billion in this year’s Budget. As soon as funds are put in place, we are going to build the new infrastructure in Livingstone and Lusaka.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development give this august House the exact time frame when the stadium will be constructed in Livingstone due to its significance in the 2010 World Cup that will take place in Livingstone.

Hon. Members: Livingstone?

Mr Muyanda: Sorry, in South Africa.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, if funds were available, we would have commenced the construction of the stadium in Livingstone even tomorrow. I have stated that the Government had planned to construct three ultra modern stadia in Livingstone, Lusaka and Ndola. However, due to lack of adequate resources, we are not able to start now. Work will commence as soon as we get adequate funding.

Nevertheless, people should take into account the fact that the construction of the modern sports infrastructure should only be looked at vis-à-vis, the 2010 World Cup in South Africa. This infrastructure will be in Zambia because there will be so many games to be played. It is important to have such infrastructure because one day, even Zambia could host the Africa Cup. For as long as this Government is in power, we will ensure that we construct this stadium.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, from the hon. Minister’s answers, it is clear that the Government is concentrating on building stadia along the line of rail, on the Copperbelt and Lusaka. Does the Government have any plans to build stadia, probably smaller in size in the rural areas so as to encourage sport and development in these areas?

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the bigger stadiums that the Government is hoping to construct is along the line of railway. This is due to the population which is concentrated in these areas. However, in order to promote sport in all the provinces, plans are there to build stadia in rural areas. In the Yellow Book for this year, there is a provision for some funds to construct or upgrade some of the infrastructure in provinces.

Sir, in the past, the Government concentrated also on ensuring that the provincial stadia are in good shape. So far, some funds were released for Eastern Province and North-Western provinces. Equally in Luapula, I am sure these plans are there. This is the more reason we have even encouraged the National Sports Council of Zambia to ensure that they revive the Provincial Sports Advisory Committees and the District Sports Advisory Committees with a view to promoting sport in all the districts so that we create a reservoir of players from all areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kapeya (Mpika): Mr Speaker, from the hon. Minister’s explanation, I get the impression that the first stadium to be completed is the one in Ndola. Could he be in a position to tell us the name of that stadium?


Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, we will name the stadium when it is complete.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed the House about plans to build new stadia. What plans does his ministry have to ensure that even before he spends the first Kwacha on the new stadia, existing infrastructure such as the National Sports Council Development Centre are maintained so that by the time he finishes building the stadium in Ndola, the Nationals Sports Council Development Centre will not have collapsed.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, there are plans to rehabilitate the existing infrastructure. The National Sports Council Development Centre that the hon. Member of Parliament is concerned about is also our source of concern and we have plans to ensure the infrastructure is rehabilitated.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, according to the response from the hon. Minister, K30 billion has been allocated in this year’s Budget to rehabilitate the Independence Stadium. I would like to know whether he has in his custody a Bill of Quantities that has translated into that K30 billion allocation and what specific structural changes do we expect to see from the stadium?

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, yes the bills of quantities are there and they are with the Ministry of Works and Supply.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out what the Government is doing about the stadia that were under Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM).

Mr Speaker: Order! You may have to restate your question.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the Government is doing about the stadia that were under ZCCM.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, that infrastructure has not been handed over to the Government. I suppose there are some people who are looking after it. For instance, I am aware that Kafubu Stadium was at one time under ZCCM, but the current mine owners are in charge of that stadium. Even in the case of Nchanga, the new mine owners are looking after it. As a ministry, that infrastructure is not under us and as such, the people who bought the mines are responsible for it. At the moment, there are people who are making use of it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that it is not important to build a stadium in Livingstone as regards the 2010 World Cup because he needs to consider other places. However, the hon. Minister has read some notes from the previous Minister who had stated in this House that he will ensure that he either upgrades Maramba Stadium or something will be done to target the 2010 World Cup. Does the Government have any change of plans with regard to the 2010 target?

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, in the first place, I would like to correct the hon. Member that I did not say that it is not important to construct a stadium in Livingstone.

However, I had said that the plans to construct stadiums in Lusaka and Livingstone are still there. If we had the money, we would even start the construction tomorrow. I further explained that the construction of the three ultra-modern stadiums in Zambia is not specifically focused on 2010. Yes, if we had the money now, we would focus on 2010, but it must be viewed in the sense that this infrastructure will be in Zambia not only for the 2010 World Cup in South Africa, but other games in the future.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Munaile (Malole): Mr Speaker, given that it takes time to construct a stadium and that we only have three years before the World Cup, is the Government thinking of putting up better training grounds which can be used by countries that are coming to the World Cup.

Hon. PF Members: Quality!

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the rehabilitation of the Independence Stadium is one of such measures that the Government is putting in place to ensure that we prepare some training facilities in readiness for the same. The rehabilitation of the provincial stadiums is also being considered. For instance, we have in mind the Maramba Stadium in Livingstone for the purpose of training.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, K30 billion is a lot of money for the rehabilitation of the Independence Stadium. I am disappointed to hear that …

Mr Speaker: Order! You are argumentative. Ask your question.

Mr Mooya: Sir, I would like to have a rough idea of what physical change there will be as a result of pumping in K30 billion.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, the physical change that will be there is that we are going to upgrade the stadium to acceptable international standards, meaning that we are moving it from its current status to a modern one.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development has said that the Government has not taken over any stadium left by ZCCM, I would like to find out who the owners of Mpatamatu Stadium are since it has not been taken over by Luanshya Copper Mines and the stadium has been vandalised. I would also like to find out who is in charge the security at the stadium.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, I was expecting the hon. Member of Parliament to give the answer since he is the head of the village. We also do not have the record of the stadium he is talking about.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, the 2010 deadline is a business opportunity. Has the young Minister of Youth Sport and Child Development thought of asking the football Association of Zambia (FAZ) to float a company which they can put on the stock exchange to raise sufficient funding to build stadiums very quickly before 2010. This is the only quick way to raise sufficient funding to build stadiums.

Mr Namulambe: Mr Speaker, that is a very good suggestion which I think even FAZ will take up.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!




The following Bill was read the third time and passed:

The Prohibition of the Development, Production, Stockpiling and use of Chemical Weapons Bill, 2007




(Debate resumed)

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, I would like to remind hon. Members that we are all partners in development.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: When we are here, we are one because we are talking about development for the people of Zambia. Therefore, when we bring out issues we do that because we want them to be addressed.

Sir, let me start with the issue of health in this country. In Matero Constituency, that is my constituency, there are only two clinics and one referral clinic. The clinics do not have basic facilities. Sometimes the doctor is not there. When you take a child who is gasping, you find there is no oxygen. When there is a very sick patient, they are asked to pay K60,000 for fuel for the ambulance. This is a joke. Therefore, we need adequate funding in the Ministry Health.

Mr Speaker, when I went to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH) the other day, the hospital was at pains to find an X-ray gown for me. If it took them thirty minutes to look for a gown for an hon. Member of Parliament, I do not know what ordinary people do when they have to have an X-ray taken. Therefore, there is a need to look into these facilities because they are important.

Sir, there is a need for the Government to not only strengthen systems, but also ensure that institutions take their core business seriously to achieve results. This includes supervision, monitoring and recording keeping; all which is vital for transparency and development.

Mr Speaker, let me commend my brother Hon. Magande for good planning and the Fifth National Development.

Mr Speaker, developing plans have not started today in Zambia. We have had very good plans before. We would even say excellent plans. We have seen some that have been hailed as excellent internationally. We yet are witnessing what is presented and which hopefully is not going to turn out as a sign of relief for a hope about which no one should be hopeful.

Mr Speaker, it is only when we learn through education and experience that planning must move from the documentation as may be heard on office tables, to the Zambian households. We have planned and talked and seen beautiful plans, but these are not translated in our homes. People are starving. For us to see development, the common man must be cushioned. The poor woman who is looking after twenty orphans without any source of income must be empowered.

I would like to commend Hon. Namugala who said that we are going to empower the families, but every minister who stands up to talk talks about plans being underway or next year it will be plans underway the other year it will plans underway. When will these plans be realised?

Hon. PF Members: Hammer!

Mrs Sinyangwe: It is possible for Zambians to see better results, but on the basis of the same old practices that, ‘Government has performed very well, Government is doing an excellent job.’ When will this Government learn and realise that development is not about doing something well when the people of Zambia are not empowered enough to achieve and enjoy genuine development by themselves and for themselves.

This brings me to the aspect of decentralisation. We have been talking about transferring power to the people since 2004; we have been talking of capacity building; we have been talking of putting this in place, but we are dragging our feet to transfer authority to the lower organs. When I look at this year’s Budget on decentralisation, if we move at the rate we are today, I am sure it will take another ten years before we see any results.

Mr Speaker, like somebody mentioned yesterday, it is not fair that we take our youths as people who are going to sing songs for us and protect us during elections, and yet we are not doing much for them.

This brings me to the issue of the curriculum. We have seen our co-operating partners as we call them, try to help us in the area of education, but they do not touch the curriculum and we are very quiet about this. This is because they do not want a Zambian to be empowered. The curriculum makes a person. What sort of human resource you want to have should be a curriculum. We should mould our children from a young age. Even from lower grades, we should know whether a child is going to take art or he or she is oriented to science subjects. We should not wait until they are in higher grades, it will be too late.

The Finnish donors brought equipment for practical subjects. Where it has gone to, nobody knows. We should build monitoring and evaluation into our systems so that we can see whether what we are putting on the ground is working. Instead, we buy equipment and forget; whatever happens to it nobody bothers. I am glad the Ministry of Finance has taken this up. We hope to see some change in this regard. We should monitor what we are doing for us to see our achievements.

Mr Speaker, let me end by saying that comprehensive and not piecemeal curriculum reforms should be considered a priority. I have a lot of confidence in the professionalism of my brother Hon. Professor Lungwangwa. That is why I was saying let us not forget where we came from. We should not forget what we complained about. When we come here, we should be able to put these things into practice. Otherwise we shall be different people outside and when we come here we are different. This way, we are not going to achieve anything.

Let me come to the issue of priorities. I think the presidential house is not a priority.

Mr Lubinda: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Children are starving …

Mr Lubinda: Now you are talking!

Mrs Sinyangwe: … there are no drugs in hospitals; there are no desks in schools …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: … why should the presidential house be a priority? It is not falling to pieces. People’s houses are collapsing due to heavy rains because we have failed to provide decent accommodation for them.

As I said yesterday, nurses are leaving the country. When you go to a ward, there is only one nurse looking after thirty patients. Now we have thirty nurses in the ward because each bed has a nurse; each bed has a grandmother or father, how do you have such confusion? Where are we heading to?

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear! Shame

Mrs Sinyangwe: It is not practical. Sir, it is important to realise that the development of Zambia can only be spearheaded by Zambians themselves.

Hon. PF Members: Yes!

Mrs Sinyangwe: It is high time we set our priorities right. It is not a question of pleasing a political party. I did not come here to please a political party I came here to give suggestions and ideas on how to build the people of Zambia.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: If we bring a motion today which are sensitive, people will start voting on party lines even when they know that this is right. They take it that because they are the majority therefore, they are going to win; for what reason? The people of Zambia did not send us here to do that. We are supposed to be principled, know what is good for our people and move forward. Let us do things that are going to help us. Let us reduce our talk time. Let us reduce the amount of fuel …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Everybody must sacrifice. So, we must put others first before ourselves then we are going to achieve our goal.

Sir, I would like to end by saying that education is a cornerstone …

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member’s time has expired!{mospagebreak}

The Minister for North-Western (Mr Chipungu): Mr Speaker, I bring a message of support from the people of North-Western Province as well as my constituency Rufunsa.

Sir, people of North-Western Province totally support this Government led by His Excellency the President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC because of a number of achievements in the province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr speaker, arising from yesterday’s debate by one hon. Member of Parliament, I wish to assure this august House that this Government is very committed to completing all the projects in the country as well as in the North-Western Province, including the M8 Road, funds permitting.

Mr Speaker, I wish to refer to the picture on the Budget Address which was debated by one Member of this House last week. I wish to reaffirm the point that in this country, especially in the North-Western Province, we have this type of health facilities. I have pictures with me which I will lay on the Table to back what I am saying. I am referring to one particular hospital called Luwi Mission Hospital which is run by both the Government and the mission.

To me Mr Speaker, this is one of the best health institutions in the country. I have lived in South Africa and this hospital does not compare to Johannesburg Morningside Hospital it at all.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate Hon. Magande, Hon. Shakafuswa and their staff on presenting a very well articulated Budget for 2007. I am sure those of us who know Hon. Magande, will agree with me that he is a man of integrity. He is a man of action and one who has risen through the ranks and has worked in several ministries. He has also worked abroad and in the private sector. Therefore, nobody can doubt his integrity as well as his experience.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, this year’s Budget is a very good one and it is supported by nearly everybody in the country. All of us are aware that this budget has even been commended by NGOs and international organisations. The budget has been prepared within limited resources and this has been mentioned by Hon. Magande. As a country, we should make do with what we have. It has also been prepared in line with the theme ‘From Stability to Improved Service Delivery’ and this is not questionable. The budget is very easy to follow by everybody, including those who have not gone to school unless one decides not to.

Mr Speaker, the budget is offering solutions to the prevailing economic conditions in the country. It has been prepared through the process of consultation. Those of us in leadership made contributions towards the budget. The budget addresses all the concerns of all the sectors of the economy. It has been well prepared from the Fifth National Development Plan.

Mr Speaker, some people may not have contributed or participated towards the preparation of the Fifth National Development Plan, but there are quite a number of people that did so especially those in leadership. I am very disappointed with the fact that some hon. Members who worked at district level can come here and pretend they have never seen the Fifth National Development Plan.

Mr Speaker, the Fifth National Development Plan was equally consultative and in this respect, I wish to pay gratitude to Mr Mulungushi who was the architect of the preparation of the Fifth National Development Plan and who I am now told has been since promoted to Permanent Secretary.

Mr Speaker, the new deal Government has done very well with regard to inflation. The single digit of 8.2 per cent is excellent compared to over 30 per cent before. Those of us who were doing business around the 1980s, will remember the stacks and stacks of money that we used to carry to buy sugar. I was one of those who used to buy sugar and cooking oil. The moment one came out of the factory, there was a buyer outside. That was inflation, too much money chasing too few goods. The scenario now is the opposite and this Government should be commended for that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, this could not have come about without the good, physical and monitory policies of the Minister of Finance and National Planning as well as the New Deal Government.

Mr Speaker, all of us have seen the strength of the Kwacha and this is not questionable. The Kwacha has gained and the exchange rate has improved and we see our colleagues from the neighbouring countries coming to buy biscuits and sweets. You can imagine what kind of business it is. All they are doing is come and get the Kwacha and exchange it with their currencies. This just shows that the Kwacha has gained strength. You can buy an air ticket in Kwacha in Harare, Malawi or even South Africa. This was not there before, but it is happening.

Mr Speaker, ten years ago if you were in South Africa, it was mandatory that you bought your ticket using the rand, but now you can pay for your ticket in Kwacha. This is tremendous development for the New Deal Administration and the nation as a whole.

It is also amazing that the interest rates have gone down and it is very easy at the moment for anyone to borrow money from the banks.  Many financial institutions have mushroomed in the North-Western Province. We have about five in Solwezi; Financial Blue and many others. They are going to offices to ask people to borrow money as long as they are able to pay back. All this shows the good works of this Government.

Mr Speaker, I wish to mention that this country has enjoyed peace, stability and unity which are vital factors to development. We all know that where there is no peace and stability, we would not be sitting here at all. There would not be any Parliament.

Mr Speaker, on growth in the economy which is estimated at 5.8 per cent, the GDP is visible and can be seen by everybody. The economy of this country has improved tremendously, especially in the last six years under this Government and this improvement can be attributed to good performance in agriculture, mining, tourism, transport, communication, manufacturing and construction and these have been highlighted professionally in the budget.

Mr Speaker, in agriculture, with a growth of 3.9 per cent, this sector has performed very well. People of this country have taken farming seriously, including the North-Western Province. This year alone the fertiliser requirement in the North-Western province has almost doubled which is an indication that more and more people have decided to take up farming. We have also witnessed crop diversification. In the past many people used to produce one crop only which was maize, but this time around people are growing different types of crops. In Rufunsa, people are growing cassava which is being sold here in town which was not the case before. These are some of the good policies of the New Deal Government.

Mr Speaker, we have seen the export of maize which has never happened before.  This country has exported a number of bags of maize to neighbouring countries. Therefore, the allocation of K2,557.03 billion will certainly see more improvement in this sector.

Mr Speaker, mining and quarrying is another sector that has performed very well. The GDP growth which increased to 9.8 per cent from 7.9 per cent in 2005, has seen more mines opening in the country. In the North-Western Province we have Lumwana Kansanshi mines and in Rufunsa we have Kawashishi Chaponga mines. In all these mines in the North-Western Province not less than 10,000 jobs have been created.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: This is a very big achievement indeed.

On tourism, I wish to commend Hon. Kabinga Mpande for what he is doing in this ministry which has recorded positive growth. We have seen an increase in the number of tourists coming into the country. I am so happy for the North-Western Province where tourism is promoted currently and the Zambia National Tourist Board have confirmed that they are considering opening an office in Solwezi. In Rufunsa, plans are underway to promote tourism. I have in mind the Chinyunyu Hot Springs that will soon be developed into a tourist attraction.

On health, Mr Speaker, good health reforms have been introduced and these have accelerated development in the sector. A number of health posts have been constructed in the North-Western Province. In Rufunsa, just along the road, are Mumambo and Namanyengo health posts. A number of health posts were renovated in both the North-Western Province and Rufunsa. Plans to construct a hospital in Chinyunyu are underway. Health personnel are being recruited, and so far, two clinical officers as well as a nurse have been posted to Chishikaleta Rural Health Centre and I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Health for this. Therefore, the allocation of K3,552.6 billion or 46 per cent of the budget will go a long way in improving health delivery in the country.

Mr Speaker, on education, the schools are in a good condition. Rufunsa is a rural constituency, but I have not come across a school that is completely dilapidated.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Where?

Mr Chipungu: I am talking about my constituency and the North-Western Province that have toured extensively. New schools have been constructed, especially community schools.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, boreholes have been sunk at most of the Government schools, including community schools.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Mr Chipungu: Teachers have been recruited and so far, my constituency has benefited about fifteen teachers. One of the schools, Chipekete, had no teachers, but now five teachers have been sent there.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Even in Kabwata.

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, an allocation of K188.4 billion that is 15 per cent of the budget will certainly ensure improvement in this sector.

Mr Speaker, on HIV/AIDS, the New Deal Government has done tremendous work. I would like to commend the Government for the measures taken. We never had institutions such as the National Aids Council, Zambia National Response to Aids (ZANARA), but when the New Deal Government came into power institutions such as these were established in order to mitigate the effects of HIV/AIDS.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, the Government has undertaken vigorous campaigns to mitigate the effects of HIV/AIDS. Otherwise, we would all have perished.


Mr Chipungu: This is one of the few countries implementing the policy of free ARVs. I mean there are very few countries that have done this.

In conclusion, I am saying this is an excellent budget.


Mr Chipungu: Whether you like it or not. Hon. Magande and his team must be commended for presenting this well articulated budget. What is important is to work hard in our constituencies which most of us are not doing.

Mr Speaker, I am urging the hon. Members of Parliament to lobby for their constituencies and not to rely on the Government when they are supposed to be lobbying for investment in their constituencies.


Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, there is nothing wrong with this Government or the Executive. The Executive is composed of intellectuals.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: You can see Hon. Mwaanga and Hon. Sikatana there. There are men and women of integrity in the Executive.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, criticism without a base will not work in this country. Please, offer solutions.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Speaker: Order! Members of the Executive are always reminded that it is not procedural for them to debate as if they are back benchers.


Mr Speaker: They speak on policy matters regarding what the Government is doing …

Mr Kambwili: Shame!

Mr Speaker: … or intends to do.

Mr Kambwili: Wasebana iwe.

Hon. Government Members: Jealous Kambwili.

Mr Speaker: There is a microphone there which is free.

Mr Nyirenda (Kamfinsa): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me the opportunity to debate the budget and I am pleased to hear from the House that it is not a budget as such, but an estimate or a draft budget.


Mr Nyirenda: In the first instance, I would say this budget is rather cosmetic. It is hollow in the sense that all areas of concern have not been tackled accordingly and there have not been analysed as supposed to ...

Hon. Member interjected.

Mr Nyirenda: Hello. …


Mr Nyirenda: … I would say the theme ‘From Stability to Improved Service Delivery’ is not appropriate. I wish it could read ‘Improved Service to Poor Delivery’. Therefore, I take this as poor delivery of the budget so that we should address the needs of the people. We understand that we have made a lot of preparations to get to where we are now. The Ministry of Finance and National Planning should consider that we are there to improve on what we started. We are not just coming up to say, we are the experts therefore, we want this and that, no. Let us improve where we started from.

First and foremost, I will go back to where we came from. We had to sacrifice a lot. We had to tighten our belts to reach the HIPC Completion Point. What are we doing for our people? I think we should give some relief to our people. They have sacrificed a lot in terms of privatisation. They have lost jobs for the betterment of today. The achievements we have today are not mere achievements; they started from somewhere. We should pat Zambians on the back and give them some relief in their standard of living.

Mr Speaker, the delivery of social services should be of paramount importance to the people of Zambia. The microeconomics we are talking about are a step in the right direction, but what are we doing for the Zambian people? They have been having only one meal per day. Others go without a meal per day. Now that we have attained the HIPC Completion Point, the money that we have saved should be diverted to the poorest people in the country. I would like to suggest to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that we should consider the minimum budget for a Zambian today. What is the minimum? We have heard that the minimum is between K900,000 and K1.3 million. Therefore, if we made K1 million tax free, it would be good for this country.

I do not want to disturb the figures calculated by the hon. Minister, but we can make adjustments in various areas. The possible areas are the loyalties. Why should we take time to negotiate the loyalties in the mines, and yet we do not negotiate for anybody when demanding withholding tax on rentals. Rentals are at 15 per cent withholding tax. What about people using land in our country. Why should we negotiate with them? Why should we exempt the new mines by making them pay 3 per cent tax? I believe it should be 5 per cent all round to make up for the suffering that we have had in this country.

Mr Speaker, the same should happen with the allocations of these funds. We are talking about the growth rate and achievements in the area of inflation. We cannot go into inflation if we do not balance our bank accounts and the interest against the inflation. It is ridiculous to note that our current exchange rate is not stabilised up to now. Two years down the line, nothing has happened. What are we doing about this? The important factor that to look into are the policies governing our economy. If we do not have any policies, nothing will happen.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the trade policy and regulations, we may have good policies, but the implementation is poor. We have allowed the prices of goods on the international market to be exploited, but when goods are imported into the country, you do not consider the SGS. We even allow goods of a poor quality into the country to flood our markets, freezing our manufacturing industries. Currently, Ndola, which was the hub of industry on the Copperbelt, is now a ghost town. There are no manufacturing companies because we have allowed goods of a low quality to come into our country. Why can we not put measures in place to stop such things?

Measures have already been put in place. However, how do we implement them and who is the implementer? In this House, we should not look at individual parties and criticise for the sake of criticising. We should appreciate the steps that are being taken. We should adjust because where we have come from, there are loopholes. Let us look strictly into improving the economy of this country.

Zambia is a rich country and we have most of the minerals in the country. Why should we be regarded as a poor country? We are not the poorest country in the world. We are number 164 out of 177. In Zambia, we have outside nationals who are richer than other people in the world, and yet they are foreigners. What are Zambians getting out of this? With regard to the loyalties, they should be increased in the mining sector, including emerald or gemstone mining.

Sir, on the other hand, we should consider improving small scale farming. We should give small scale farmers incentives such as fertiliser and farming inputs in good time so that they can also market their produce. Today, farmers are not even assured of a market for their produce, and yet they are not given their inputs in time. Let us look into this and control the situation. We should start with empowering small-scale farmers rather than giving loans to commercial farmers who are already established and are here to reap your money and get it out of the country.

Sir, as regards the policy on foreign nationals, we allow foreigners to invest in this country without putting up structures. They only bring salaula, bakeries and restaurants. What is a Zambian going to do? If we look into these areas, then we will see the way forward.

Mr Speaker, locally, prices are not supportive because producers and traders are being discrimination against by these companies. We should make sure that these incentives are given equally because we want small-scale farmers to develop into commercial farmers.

Sir, we should also ensure that cotton farmers are given the right deal. Mostly, it is the cotton farmers who are suffering. To some extent, they even sell their products less than the labour costs. That is something which should be looked into.

Sir, we should also look into the clearing system for traders because most of people are suffering. There is trade injustice. The Government should urgently look into the rules that govern the transactions between the market players and the rule of law and equity. This is a very important aspect of our lives because we do not balance issues at hand.

In this case, what are we trying to do? Are we represented in the World Trade Organisation? Are our contracts signed accordingly? If not, we should start looking into these areas. The SGS has been put off completely. We are not utilising it when it comes to our areas of concern. There was Zambia Metal Fabricators (ZAMEFA) that was producing products from copper. We did not fetch a good market because a lot of …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I am sorry to disturb the old man who is debating. I rise on a very serious point of order. Are the hon. Ministers for Western Province, Mr Mufalali and Mr Mulyata for Southern Province, in order to allow the Vice-President to spend all the money inspecting floods, which are celebrated by my cousins, the Lozi? When there are floods, their Kuomboka does well and they catch their hopani easier.


Mr Speaker: The hon. Deputy Ministers for the provinces mentioned by the hon. Member for Kalomo have a chance to defend themselves when they take the Floor to debate.

May the hon. Member for Kamfinsa continue, please.

Mr Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, I was talking about trade justice. Trade justice needs a meaningful reduction in income tax. It should be a reward to the people of Zambia for having sacrificed to attain the HIPC Completion Point.

Sir, the Government should come up with an incentives regime which levels the playing field between local and foreign traders.

Hon. Members, we are the people’s representatives and, as such, we should contribute to the development of the nation and not criticise issues pertaining to this country unnecessarily because we have a task to serve the people of Zambia. It is, therefore, important for us to sit together and look at areas of concern.

With regard to the education sector, most schools have no desks. There are no qualified teachers. If they are there, they are not providing a good service because of poor conditions of service. I urge the Ministry of Education to improve the conditions of service for teachers so that we improve the standard of teaching. In fact, the hon. Minister announced that about 75 per cent of Grade 9 pupils failed. I think it will be 85 per cent next time. Let us a repeat of this situation.

Mr Speaker, we have two universities in the country. One is on the Copperbelt and the other in Lusaka. Both universities do not pay enough allowances. The issue of bursary should also be looked into. Education is important. More money should be given to the education sector. I urge the Government to seriously look into this issue.

On health, a lot of hospitals and clinics have no drugs, ambulances and other facilities. In most cases, when one goes to the hospital, he or she is given a prescription. If you have no money, how do you buy medicine? In fact, we have aged people in different areas in the country. Let the Government extend health assistance to the aged. They must have free medical treatment.

Mr Speaker, on water and sanitation, I have not seen much in the budget. Very little has been done on this. I think it is important to budget for projects province by province because this will make planning very easy.

Mr Speaker, there is also the issue of achieving the Millennium Development Goals. How do we do this? We have to sit down and plan properly. If we do things just to please the rich people, we will not be fair to the poor people. I urge the Government to make sure that this is done properly.

Mr Speaker, I appeal to this House to contribute, work together and make sure that the budget benefits all Zambians. Let us criticise wisely and move forward for the betterment of this country.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimumbwa (Nchanga): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this chance to debate the budget.

Mr Speaker, any country’s economic development depends on major changes in the political and social structures which take care of people’s social values. What stimulates this? This is usually stimulated by reasoned planning which balances social power with effective values inherent in human rights.

In this regard, Mr Speaker, while we are looking at social values of a nation, we have to look at the characters of the economic institutions and the way the distribution of income is taken care of. Coupled with that, we have to look critically at the partners of investment outlets because these have to be aligned with the social economic values.

Mr Speaker, when we are looking at the social values of any given nation or society, we look at not only the foreign investor, but the locals as well because they provide a valuable input in terms of labour.

In relation to Zambia’s economic development, what do we need to do? When you look at the budget, it is not just a question of standing up and rubbing it and saying yes, it is a good budget. Yes, it may be a good or bad budget, but we are supposed to feel sorry for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning because he has a mammoth task before him. No sooner had he presented the budget than we saw the floods coming up. He made provisions in the budget for all eventualities. Now, is that provision enough to cater for what has happened or the extra problem that has been created by nature in terms of flooding? Do we have enough reserves to fall back on in terms of problems such as floods? What is going to happen very soon is that we will get back to him and whip him into frenzy and give him matching orders to say, ‘hon. Minister, can you go and find money to give people food, shelter and other things that will be required very soon by the people that have been affected by the floods.’ It is not just a question of standing up, dancing and saying yes, the budget is very good, we must accept it. Yes, we have to accept the budget, fair enough, but are we looking at all these issues? What are we doing to help the hon. Minister go round and solve these problems in the nation?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimumbwa: Despite him being Minister of Finance and National Planning or the President being in State House, they are still human. We cannot just expect them to stand up all the time to go round with a begging bowl on behalf of the nation. We have to give provisions and support. The hon. Minister is one that helps the president put aside enough reserves for him to stand up and say, yes, this programme has come and here is the money that I have to fall back on and the problems are solved. That way, I believe the country will be able to develop and as a people, we will be able to stand up with pride and say that we are Zambia and moving forward in terms of economic development.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimumbwa: The drive to exploit technological innovation sets in motion a train of secondary expansion.

Mr Speaker, we are a nation and there is nothing wrong with us as Zambia accepting the computerised machinery. When we talk about a train of secondary expansion, why should we have a machine for instance, that will come and dig furrows in the compounds, and yet the same machine that is supposed to spend K20 million to dig a furrow of a few 100 metres. With that amount, if you turned round and employed the people on the streets you could create between 200 to 300 jobs.

Mr Speaker, we are not saying that we do not want the technological innovations or we want to lag behind, no. We have to have some deliberate policies in place to enhance the source of values of our nation.

Mr Speaker, when we come up with technological innovations, we should have in mind the human social values.

Mr Speaker, international capital inflow does not just happen, with people coming in to bring money and then we are happy because everything is fine. There is always plan ‘B’ and there is no businessman or developed nation that is supposed to come to Zambia and simply say that Zambia you are a good nation, so, here is the money, go and spend it the way you feel like. What we sometimes forget is that there is always plan ‘B’. It is up to us as a nation, when someone has brought a carrot before us, before we think of grabbing the carrot, we should ask ourselves why he has offered us the carrot for free? There is always a plan ‘B’ behind the carrot that is being dangled before us. Why do we not sit as a nation and say ‘let us come up with plan ‘B’ before we touch this money and how are we supposed to counter plan ‘B’. They are planning to come and hit us when we touch their money because they will stand up and say you got money from us, you should do this and that’.

They do not want Zambia to develop and get closer to their level of development. They always want to look down on us as people that has no direction and that can provide cheap labour and from were they get almost the next to zero raw materials to develop their countries further.

The capital inflow is influenced by profit motives at the expense of the local Zambian, the semi-illiterate Zambian who needs support from the Government or us here. We need to put in place policies that are going to protect a person that is vulnerable on the street.

When we detect all these things, we should place them under an institutional and legal microscope so that as a nation, we are able to detect all these hidden motives they come into our country with.

Mr Speaker, we should carefully look at their personal policies because the very basis of development alliances hinges on labour or the social values that I have talked about before.

Mr Speaker, what is in the Budget to sustain the economic growth as seen in capital output ratio?

Mr Speaker, I think as we sit here as Parliament to talk about economic achievements in the midst of very high poverty levels …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

Mr Chimumbwa: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended I was talking about economic achievements. It is naïve for us here collectively as Members of Parliament to talk about positive economic development in the midst of high poverty levels. Development can only be seen if there is a provision of basic human needs such as water and sanitation.

Mr Speaker, every year, we hear of cases of cholera and other water borne diseases. What are we doing and how far have we gone to work round the problem of this perennial water borne diseases?

The provision of education, every year that comes, we hear that the results keep getting poorer and poorer. As Parliamentarians what are we doing and how much encouragement are we giving to Hon. Lungwangwa, Minister of Education to help him manage the substandard of education that keeps deteriorating. We cannot just stand up and criticise Hon. Lungwangwa that he has failed. What are we doing as individuals or Legislature to encourage him?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimumbwa: On health, we have a problem of HIV/AIDS. Unfortunately, when we talk about HIV/AIDS- and this is one area where, like I said before, if you look at developed countries, when they come here instead of giving us money that is going to help us develop and achieve tangible results, they pump money into an area where there are no tangible results. They give money to the HIV/AIDS fight. As a country, when you say you are fighting HIV/AIDS, are we able to get tangible results?

In terms of economic development, what are we doing? We will be talking about the human resources that they have been strengthened and so on, but are we able to get tangible results from the HIV/AIDS fight? The answer, I believe is negative and that is where these developed countries are busy pumping money so that they make sure that we keep going back with a begging bowl.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the issue of housing stocks, I can safely say that they have completely run out. What are we doing to revive this sector? What are we doing to encourage investment in this sector? Are we doing enough to stimulate development in this area?

Sir, with regard to nutrition; the food basket, there are indicators that we are moving slowly in the right direction in the provision or enhancement of the food basket of the nation. However, this is it enough? The answer is an emphatic no.

Mr Speaker, I would like to see a Parliament that embraces all the tenets of development. Not a Parliament that stands up and starts dancing, says yes, we have done this, yes, we have fixed that political party or we have fixed that Member of Parliament. This Parliament should not be used to settle personal political scores. We are here to make sure that we have a better Zambia tomorrow.

Those are the tenets of development which, I believe, we are here for, Mr Speaker. Are we doing enough to encourage partnerships? It is only partnerships that are an underlying factor in most of the developmental achievements that we strive for. What are you doing to encourage partnerships? In partnerships, we have the Community Based Organisations (CBOs) and the Constituency Development Committees (Cads). Are you encouraging these partnerships? Are you giving them the necessary encouragement for them to foster development? Are we doing enough to build capacity development? Are we putting the vulnerable first? What are we doing in terms of efficient resource utilisation? If I am to zero in on some of these- you hear from a number of hon. Members that when you talk about resource utilisation, you will be told that, yes, you are supposed to stand up and get Constituency Development Fund (CDF) and use it for political appeasement. This is not resource utilisation. What are we doing to strengthen performance? This is cardinal.

Mr Speaker, are we basing action on evidence? Are we making decisions with concrete evidence or taking action based on realities? We cannot make action based on other peoples’ fundamental rights or tenets of development. Are we doing this? 
These are the issues I wanted to talk about in contribution to this year’s Budget.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}

Mr Kanyanyamina (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to air my views and represent the people of Zambia and Kanchibiya in particular, on the budget issue.

Sir, to begin with, we, as leaders of the House, need to be God fearing people and put the poor people that we are mandated to serve first. Selfishness and greediness will get us nowhere. Unity will help us serve the poor people better.

Mr Speaker, if we look at the issue of justice, I would say there is no justice in the country for the poor person. Even for the wealthy ones, it is very expensive. This can be seen from the high cost of legal services.

Sir, I would like to talk about the most important issue, that of the Zambian youths. We are talking about the allocation of K40 million as Youth Fund per constituency, this is almost a mockery. If we really want to help the youths, we need to come up with practical solutions to meet their aspirations and dreams.

Mr Speaker, with regard to education, for example, it is good that we are waiting to see the Government employ 4,000,000 teachers. However, we are unable to maintain the teachers who are already in employment.

Northern Province, for example, recorded the poorest results in last year’s Grade 9 examination. One wonders what causes these poor results. It is very clear that teachers are not well motivated.

Hon. PF Members: Hammer!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Perhaps, teachers opt to go for workshops every now and then to make ends meet. We cannot be proud as leaders or parliamentarians to see the standard of education of our children going down.

Hon. PF Members: Shame!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Fine! We drive Pajeros; we like to have flags in front of our vehicles. This is very nice, but short lived.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: We need to invest in long-term programmes because it is my children, it is someone’s children and it is everybody’s business.

Mr Kambwili: Hammer!

Mr Kanyanyamina: For example, the amount allocated to education is 1.1 per cent less in comparison to last year’s Budget. I am not an economist, but I am able to read this. If you look at last year’s Budget, the percentage for education was higher than what we got this year. When you talk of Kwacha wise, yes, we have gone ahead, but it is not sorting our problems out.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: We cannot motivate teachers and keep them in the classroom when we reduce the allocation to education by 1.1 per cent without increasing the number of private schools. The tuition we hear about every now and then is as a result of the Government’s incapability to take care of teachers.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Therefore, we are asking the Government and hon. Members of Parliament to unite all the time and find amicable solutions so that teachers are well motivated. We cannot condemn a poor teacher who gets K800,000 at the end of the month that is also taxed. Perhaps, this budget should have looked at giving relief to the teachers.  A budget should always give relief to the workers. Teachers’ salaries should have been increased from K800,000 to K1,000,000 and should have been exempted from tax. Instead, we knock at the poor door of the teacher and cut his money obligatory.

Hon. PF Members: Hammer!

Mr Kambwili: Kanchibiya speaking.

Dr Chishimba: Speak, speak. Mr Kanyanyamina: It is good that most of the road projects have been taken over by the Road Development Agency (RDA). I do not know if the people in my constituency will really benefit from this because already, the cake is shared amongst the people at the top. What we are getting today is really nothing. What we do now is that when we have finished what we have at hand, that is when we think of the next projects.

Sir, I am therefore, praying for the people of Kanchibiya Constituency, whose roads are so bad to be attended to. We are unable to maintain the road to Chundaponde where one can see a shoebill and black lechwe. This is the only place in the world where you can find a black lechwe, and yet we cannot maintain this road. Why are we even talking of tourism attraction? Let us look at the budget which is going to reach most of the poor people in the rural areas.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Mr Speaker, this Budget which the hon. Minister has prepared with his team is a very good starting point. What is lacking in it is the allocation of formidable amounts of money to sort out problems in rural areas and compounds within the cities. I am saying this because it is not mentioned and we do not know how the situation will be addressed.

Sir, in the area of health, we are talking of employing 1,900 workers. The Government trained a lot of nurses and doctors, but there is no motivation. When they talk of better pay so that they can have bread and butter on the table or even simple nshima, the Government says they are politicising. Most of these people are facing victimisation and unnecessary transfers which costs a lot of money for the Government. This is not helping us at all. Let us swallow our pride and serve the poor people of this country. Most of these people do not have enough money to buy shoes, but they vote for us to come and represent them in this House. I would like to appeal to all the technocrats involved in the preparation of this Budget to at least be passionate enough to come and adjust the figure under that allocation. We are not supposed to tax a nurse who is taking home K500,000. Let us be passionate enough, hon. Minister. We should at least tax K1,000,000 and above. This way, everybody will be given enough money for the pocket and be able to pay for education.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Sir, for example, in my constituency at Chundaponde, we do not have qualified personnel at the moment to attend to patients. We do not even have drugs. There are no medical facilities an ambulance cannot reach that place due to bad roads. When I contacted the District Commissioner, I was told that they were going to find relief personnel because they did not have enough staff. How can they allocate such a meagre resources to health which everybody, including the hon. Minister who is able to prepare this Budget can be a victim one day? I am not wishing him bad, but I am just giving an example.


Mr Kanyanyamina: Sir, everybody is likely to be sick and need medication. Most of these poor nurses and doctors are working tirelessly at very low salaries. They cannot even afford to buy a bicycle, but when they ask for a better share, you say they are politicking. Let us put politics aside and be straightforward and factual. God gave some of us  a chance to be hon. Ministers and  Deputy Ministers and not to sing praises to who flew to which country, but perhaps who is able to bring wealth for the common good of this nation.

Mr Speaker, I would like to urgently appeal to this listening Government to look into this matter. I am impressed with the letter which is issued by the President of this country, Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, which empowers every hon. Member of Parliament, regardless of their affiliation. I think this is a very good thing for us all.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Mr Speaker, with these few words…

Hon. Opposition Members: Continue!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Mr Speaker, I talked about health.


Mr Kanyanyamina: Sir, you will find that people walk about 40 kilometres to reach nearest rural health centre where there is not even a single panadol. For example, on Christmas Day, people of Mpepo area celebrated their Christmas in sorrow when they lost a pregnant woman who failed to deliver. If we had facilities, our dear mother would have not died.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Sir, I would like to inform you that after this incident the community felt there was a need to have an ambulance at Mpepo Clinic. Therefore, people started selling maize, cassava and millet. They have managed to raise K10 million as their contribution towards the purchase of an ambulance. It is a lot of hard work for the rural people to raise such an amount of money. Anybody can contact the Director of Health in Mpika for proof. The Government is not supplementing their efforts to get a second hand ambulance from Dubai. The Government is always defending itself. They even say that there is an ambulance at Mpika Hospital which is 120 kilometres from Mpepo Rural Health Centre.

Sir, it is like this Government is only listening to the elite; people like me who can read, write and can make transactions at the bank. The poor people at the grassroots level are not catered for.

We have produced enough maize this year and we are able to export some of it. Before, we were unable to export any maize, we did not have enough money to pay the farmers and we could not buy the produce from the farmers. Presently, some of the farmers have not been reimbursed for their empty bags.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: How can you say we are able to produce enough when we are stealing from the poor farmers? We need to bring sanity to the budget. Implementation is the hardest part of this budget.

Mr Kambwili: Bebe, balamona kwati teti ulande!

Mr Kanyanyamina: As servants of the people, let us bring sanity into our operations, especially in the 2007 Budget. This year’s Budget should have a lot of relief for the people. His Excellency the President must ensure that whoever is found wanting with regard to public funds is brought to book without any waste of time.

Sir, what is the logic in allocating K780,000 to each animal at State House instead of channeling it  to health, water and education in this year’s Budget?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: There is no logic at all. We respect animals rather than serving the poor people out there in the villages.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: At one time, we will be judged by God who does not discriminate between people who have a lot of weight or small. The future is here, (pointing at school children in the public galleries). All these people need better schools and better health facilities. We can then be proud, as hon. Ministers or Members of Parliament that we have done something good for the people; yes, I have done something as President of the country, …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
  Mr Kanyanyamina: I have done something as a parliamentarian. Otherwise, we are just joking.

Mr Speaker, 4 per cent as an increase of salaries for civil servants is a mockery, as reported in today’s Post News Paper. This is total mockery. Civil servants are our masters. No wonder K3 trillion has disappeared. We are not encouraging anarchy and stealing of money. All we are saying is, hon. Minister, kindly give them decent salaries …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: … to enable them enjoy what others enjoy. In the media, we are referred to as selfish leaders. They just do not understand the situation we are in simply because they get less than K1 million. To them K1 million is so huge an amount. However, this is an injustice of the Government.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: How can you give someone whole milk and at the end of the day, you dilute it with water.


Mr Kanyanyamina: What I am saying is that after taxing that K1 million, the person takes home K200,000. This is diluting.

Mr Speaker, with these few remarks ...

Hon. PF Members: Awe! Awe! Twalilila. Bebe!

Mr Kambwili gave a note to Mr Kanyanyamina.


Mr Kanyanyamina: Mr Speaker, for example, lack of support to the education sector has resulted in persistent closures of the University of Zambia. This is unacceptable. We want to see this Year’s Budget addressing this situation.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Kanchibiya confirms the fact that an active Member of Parliament can say anything on any subject. For instance, the way he was being encouraged to continue over there.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, let me thank Hon. Magande and I congratulate him for a very good budget.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: I also want to thank and congratulate the President Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC for discovering Hon. Magande.

Hon. PF Members: Aah!


Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, before 2002, there was no economy to talk about in this country.

Mr Chimbaka: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker is the hon. Deputy Minister on the Floor in order to tell this august House that Hon. Magande was discovered instead of being born.


Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister is in order.

May he continue.


Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, before 2002, there was no economy to talk about in Zambia. For those of us who were business in the 90s, we will tell you that at one time, in 1994 in particular, the interest rates in the banks were about 140 per cent. That is the time when we lost good co-operative unions such as the Southern, Eastern and Western Province Co-operative Unions. Those who do not know the effects of the high interest rates should talk to Hon. Muntanga. He will explain what happened between him and Finance Bank.

Mr Muntanga stood up.


Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is the Deputy Minister for Tourism, Environment and Natural Resource in order to provoke an innocent hon. Member of Parliament who is listening to him in spite of the floods in the Western Province, to talk about Finance Bank which the whole country knows about and hide the debt from the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources to upgrade Kozo Lodge. Is he in order, Sir?


Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister and the hon. Member for Kalomo are debating each other which is not allowed in this House.


Mr Speaker: May the hon. Deputy Minister leave the Hon. Member for Kalomo alone.

May he continue.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I am talking about high interest rates.

Sir, the Cabinet that was in office from 2002 to 2006 did very good work.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Sir, if they did not perform, there would be no 5.5 per cent growth in the economy we are talking about now. In fact, if we have to talk about economic growth, we should actually talk about the period 2002 to 2006. Before then, there was no growth.

Mr Speaker, let me refer to my notes. In 1993, the effects of privatisation were very bad, especially for those of us in the tourism industry. This was the time when Zambia Airways was liquidated. I would therefore, like to urge my hon. Colleagues that when it comes to the Constitution, we should not do things haphazardly because the results can be disastrous. We have already seen what privatisation of companies has done to the economy of Zambia. All that we are saying, hon. Members, is that there is no economy to talk about until 2002.

Sir, I would like to thank Hon. Magande for cutting the suit according to the material available. We can say whatever we want to, but that is the money that is available and that is the money that can be shared.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Kaingu: I do not have a lady.


Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, let me now come to my ministry.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the tourism industry has really grown. For those who do not know, before 2002, the only tourism you could talk about was …

Hon. PF Members: Kozo Lodge!

Mr Kaingu: Please do not disturb me.


Mr Speaker: Order! Order! The Chair would like to listen to the hon. Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resource’s debate. Do not derail him because if you do so, you are also derailing my hearing.

May he continue.

Mr Kaingu: The only tourism agents you knew were Eagle Travel and Makumbi. Today, you can see that the sector has grown. We have so many guest houses, lodges, hotels and many cruises in Livingstone. Unfortunately, the only blow that affected tourism was the liquidation of Zambia Airways. Due to the liquidation of Zambia Airways it was very difficult to exploit the national resources we have in Luapula and Northern provinces. After the demise of Zambia Airways, it was very difficult to go to Kasaba Bay.

Mr Speaker, you can see that tourism has improved that is why there are illegal guest houses mushrooming. Hon. Sejani brought this to the attention of the House today. As a result of the growth in tourism, it has become necessary for our ministry to bring to this House some time this year the Tourism and Hospitality Bill. When it comes, I will urge all Members to help us pass it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kaingu: Most people from the Copperbelt talk about mining.  The mining sector has grown on the Copperbelt and I am glad that even some of the Members here such as hon. Member of Parliament for Roan are suppliers to the mines. Hon. Kambwili’s trucks are always ferrying coal to the smelters.

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the Hon. Deputy Minister in order to debate my personal business in this House? I seek your very serious ruling.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Roan has raised a valid point of order. The Hon. Deputy Minister should debate policy matters and not individuals.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The Hon. Deputy Minister may continue.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, it is just that …

Mr Pande: Do not qualify the ruling. Just go on!

Mr Muntanga: What? You want to qualify!


Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, agriculture …

Mr D. Mwila: Finally!


Mr D. Mwila: Ikaleni panshi mudala!

Mr Hachipuka: On a point of order.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Hachipuka: Mr Speaker, is the Hon. Deputy Minister who is debating now in order not to seek the assistance of his office to dissect the budget properly and give an intelligent government position here than waffling about Kozo …


Mr Hachipuka: … and his constituency. Is he in order not to seek the support and the help of the Permanent Secretary to write for him since he cannot speak properly?


Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mbabala through that point of order enables me to guide the Executive. You are advised to prepare your debates by putting them on paper and read your debates in the House. The reason is obvious. Whatever you say in the House as Members of the Executive is expected to represent Government policy. Whatever you also say in the House is Government assurance that must be followed up and implemented. So, Members of the Executive, unlike the backbench and the other parliamentary groups, are the ones who are allowed to read their debates any time they debate.

The Hon. Deputy Minister may continue.

Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, this budget is not for those who cannot budget even for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF).

Still on tourism, Mr Speaker, and Livingstone in particular, I wish to state that as a result of our policies, there has been tremendous improvement from the four planes that were flying in weekly to twenty-one per week now.

Mr Speaker, finally …


Mr Kaingu: … I would like to thank Hon. Magande for a very good budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, I thank you for affording me this opportunity to debate the 2007 Budget with its accompanying review of the 2006 Budget. The theme of this budget reads, ‘From Stability to Improved Service Delivery.’

Sir, after delivering this budget on 9th February, 2007, the Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was quick to go to the Post and declare this budget a very easy one to prepare. In fact, the easiest budget he had ever seen. Why not? I totally believe and so do all the Zambians. However, let us ask ourselves this question, what is the purpose of drawing a budget?

In our homes, we draw a budget to ensure that the whole month our children have a roof over their heads, have three decent meals, go to school, can access health services, and to ensure that electricity and water is there. We draw a budget each month or each year with the strategic view that our children grow up and live a better life than we are now. At the end of our working lives, we can retire, reap and feed from what we worked for. Only if we do that, do we qualify to be called good parents, in fact human beings. Any deviation from this is inhuman. Only crocodiles lay eggs and forget about them. They only come to divulge the siblings when they hatch.

Mr Speaker, I pause a question, has this so-called easy budget addressed the issues I have outlined? This budget is indeed a very easy one true to the word of the Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. The only thing to do is, in the name of liberalisation, the Government has opened the gates to every Jim and Jack who cares to come in and throw their children to the wolves.

Mr Speaker: Order! The phrase Jim and Jack is unparliamentary. Can you withdraw it?

Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, I thank you, I withdraw it.

 Mr Speaker, we are told here how the wheat portfolio investment position has improved by 49 per cent in 2006. In fact, I am even surprised it did not go up to 100 per cent or even more. I would like to explain the policies that have brought about this perceived improvement in portfolios in foreign investments in a very simple way.

Mr Speaker, imagine you live in a four bed-roomed house with your wife and children. You invite your relatives from the village who want to come and work here to lodge in your house, and four of them come. When they come, you tell the children to vacate the rooms for them if they squat in your house on condition that they do not pay any rentals or contribute towards the payment of electricity, water or even food. If you allow them to sit in the sitting room, smoke and pollute the room to the extent your children get coughs, who would not come?

Mr Speaker, if you even engage your children to prepare their hot baths and sweep their bedrooms and allow them to pay anything for that service, who would not come? To tell you, they will even save you the task of advertising because they themselves will go to their village and call all their uncles, brothers, cousins and grandparents to lodge in your house such that some will even sleep on the roof top. Your house will be full because it is your children who will pay for the electricity, the food they will eat and for everything.

Mr Speaker, there is nothing to boast about. What will your neighbours call you? They will call you all the unparliamentary names which I will not mention here.


Dr Katema: Mr Speaker, this is what is happening here in Zambia. Doors are open to everyone who cares to come and invest because Zambians will contribute towards the infrastructure development etc. including the repairs of everything. Their task is only to come with one dollar and go back with a million dollars.

Mr Speaker, we are happy that China is bringing in US$800,000,000 and we are all dancing for that amount. These investors were supposed to pay us US$600,000,000 in the form of taxes, but they have not done so. So, it is actually our own money which is being brought here and there is no reason to celebrate. We could have had this money and used it with dignity, knowing that it is ours. At the moment, the money they are bringing in, which is ours, has conditions. Is it not a shame, Sir?

Mr Speaker: It is unparliamentary.


Dr Katema: I withdraw the term, Sir.

Mr Speaker, the way you treat your children at home will determine the way the visitors who come to your house will treat your children. If you flog them once a day, the visitors will flog them three times a day.

Mr Speaker, investors are business people and as such, they study the environment they are going to invest their money in. Some of the questions they ask themselves are that where we are going, are there any elaborate labour laws. In our case, the answer is, there are there, but not to worry about them because even the Government which is the biggest employer in that country flouts the labour laws.

Mr Speaker, these people listen to our debates because our debates are heard worldwide. When the Deputy Minister stands up to speak and gets away easily when he is tasked to explain why people in his Ministry, in the Department of Central Statistics have not been confirmed for over ten years, the very people who collect the data which he uses to prepare this so called very easy budget and he gets away with it by explaining that probably these people are incompetent. These are the same people who collect the data for him.

Mr Speaker, people look at how we flout the labour laws like we did in Chambishi. There is a labour law which says, for anybody to handle explosives, they are supposed to be trained and have blasting licences, but these investors just come and collect youths from the street and without any training, they start handling explosives and they end up being blown to pieces. They see these things and they also see that instead of the father of the victims attending the funeral, he goes to meet yet another envoy of investors.

Mr Speaker, we are being watched. When we remind ourselves about the dangers of using Dichloro-Diphenyl-Trichloroethane (DDT) and we are telling ourselves that the manufacture of DDT was banned, they listen. They also listen when we defend the conglomerates that made DDT by saying that DDT is harmless, but only dangerous when you spray to a field and harmless when it is sprayed in our houses. They say these leaders are not serious about protecting their own people.  They are only interested in the carrot which is dangling in front of them.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes.

Dr Katema: Then, they come and we boast and say that foreign portfolio investment has increased, who would not come. The whole essence is what is all this investments doing to our people? Is it improving the wellbeing of our people?

Mr Speaker, with this kind of thinking, I would not be surprised if a foreign company came to tell us to keep the toxic substances at a fee. It is being done mind you, in other countries. From Stability to Improved Service Delivery, who is going to deliver? It is the civil service. Working mothers will bear me witness to the fact that if you employee a maid to look after your baby while you are at work and that maid has a large family and you do not pay her well. No matter how much food you leave at home for your baby, that child is going to suffer from malnutrition.

Hon. Opposition Member: Amen.

Mr Katema: We can boast of very qualified and skilled manpower with massive reserves looming in the streets. Thanks to HIPC which allowed us to churn out teachers and churn out doctors and nurses to roam the streets. Have we sat down to ask ourselves why these same teachers and doctors whom we say have a very bad work culture, are in fact, being called the best doctors and the best teachers in Botswana, Namibia and South Africa. Why, the same people. The answer is simple; you cannot work properly when at the end of the month you do not know whether you get your salary or not. The month ends on the 30th and then you are paid on the 15th, when you do not know when you will be paid your housing allowance and your landlord is on your neck.

Mr Speaker, no wonder chiefs are complaining that there teachers are lazy and firing them.


Mr Katema: Teachers are milking cows instead of teaching. That is why teachers are engaging the same pupils for extra lessons in the same subjects that they teach in the morning and they teach them in the afternoon at a fee. That is why you see doctors in our biggest hospitals ushering you to another clinic and you will end up paying a lot of money seeing the same doctor there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Katema: That is why you are seeing ARVs collecting dust on the shelves. There are free, but they are collecting dust on the shelves because there is nobody to administer them.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Kambwili: It is true he is speaking from experience.

Dr Katema: Then you stand and say that we shift from stability to improved service delivery. No wonder the budget is easy and simple. The principle is open the gates. Let everybody who cares come in and God save us all.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Puma): I thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to speak. I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for bringing a very good budget to this House which has received the blessings of most people, including all those who have been criticising the Government. The theme for this year’s budget, ‘From Stability to Improved Service Delivery’ could not have come at a better time than this year. This is because of the stability of the Zambian economy.

Ms Cifire: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: On the performance of the domestic economy, it is good to note that the economy has grown from 5.2 per cent in 2005 to 5.8 per cent. Inflation rates have come to the lowest ever over thirty years at 8.2 per cent by December, 2006. This is commendable. Generally, the economy has been stable, agreeing with the theme that the ministry came up with. There is a need to commend the new Government for implementing prudent fiscal policies. Particularly, when the New Deal Government came into office, the economy has remained very stable.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, in the past, senior Government leaders have been known to plead with business houses to stop using dollars or quoting in dollars and use Kwacha instead to quote prices, but because of the prudent fiscal policies that the New Deal Government has put in place, we find that very few if any people are quoting in dollars. Even those that are quoting in dollars, accept the Kwacha at a lower rate. For example, someone would say a house is $2,000 which would go for K8.6 million. If I have only K6 million, they will accept because the Kwacha for the first time is being appreciated in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: In the area of agriculture, Mr Speaker, I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for including the Fertiliser Support Programme for small-scale farmers. This has in the past enabled a bumper harvest even in districts which are not known to produce a lot of maize. When I was campaigning, I was surprised to see that in some areas that are not known to produce maize, there were stacks and stacks of maize. This is commendable and it is good that in this year’s Budget, consideration is made to further support small-scale farmers.

In the area of tourism, again, I would like to commend the Government for supporting Zambians with credit facilities to make sure that guest houses, lodges and also tourist facilities are enhanced. Just about five to ten years ago, most of these facilities were run by foreigners, but for the first time we see our fellow Zambians running tourist sites which are well maintained.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, in the area of mining, I need not say so much because there is a lot of development in this area. It is surprising that instead of people seeing the benefits that are coming with the improvement in the mining sector; some have deliberately decided to oppose anything that goes on. Some people are actually benefiting directly from the mines by supplying goods and selling different minerals to the same mines, but instead of appreciating the Government’s efforts; they deliberately decide to be against the Government. I fail to understand this, Mr Speaker.

In the health sector, I will leave most of the issues to the hon. Minister so that she addresses the issues pertaining to the sector adequately. I would like to mention, with regard to the contribution my fellow doctor made that there are no patients taking ARVs. I would like to remind him that there are over 76,000 people who are on Anti-Retroviral Drugs. Further, I would like to clarify that when we say that there are over 1,000,000 people living with HIV, it does not mean that all of them should be taking Anti-Retroviral Drugs. When someone becomes HIV positive, it would take anywhere between three to fifteen years, sometimes up to twenty years for them to develop AIDS. They will be in HIV positive status. We are giving Anti-Retroviral Drugs to those who are almost going into AIDS. When they start showing symptoms and signs of AIDS, we start them on Anti-Retroviral Drugs so that they continue healing. That is why we are saying that only about 200,000 people are expected to be on Anti-Retroviral Drugs, even though the actual number of people living with HIV is 1,000,000. I thought it was important to make this clarification.

Sir, with regard to the economic and social policies for 2007, the targets are very realistic and attainable. The real Gross Domestic Product gross rate of 7 per cent is very attainable since we have 5.8 percent. Anyone who knows how to measure estimates will appreciate that the people who came up and said that we were going to reach 7 per cent, were thinking.

Looking at the inflation rate, the target is to reduce it to 5 per cent. Again, from about 8.2 per cent in December to 5 per cent, is attainable. Again, I note that on economic and social policies, the Government has sought to reduce Government Domestic Borrowing. What this means is that the Government is not going to borrow from the banks and the banks will have a lot of money, but they have to offload it to the society in one way or the other or in the form of infrastructure development so that they build houses or lend to people so that they pay back with interest. This is a good policy.

Zambians should take advantage of the New Deal Policies of a private-sector driven economy. As a Government, what we are saying is that we are going to make the environment conducive for anybody to invest. It is not good for anybody to criticise. If you have good ideas, can you invest because we have made it very conducive for you to do so?

Mr Speaker, I would also like to clarify one issue. One hon. Member is concerned about the workshops and trainings that is going on in the health sector and education. With regard to the health sector, I would like to confirm that it will take a long time for the workshops and training to stop. This is because of the nature of work where we need to retrain our staff in various areas. For example, in the past three to five years, we have been introducing new vaccines that have never been used in this country, which include the Hepatitis B vaccine. There is no way we could just procure this vaccine and send it to the centres. How do they know how it is administered and when to administer it? That is why workshops need to continue.

Further, on the issue of Anti-Retroviral Drugs, there is no way we can just send drugs to Shangombo and ask them to start administering them just because they have heard about them. It is unacceptable. We need to call them, teach them about Anti-Retroviral Drugs, their side effects, what they should do and the combination of drugs. This is because when you combine some of the drugs with Anti-Retroviral Drugs, the patient will die. We need to advise them that if they give a certain drug, they should combine it with the Anti-Retroviral Drugs. How can we stop conducting workshops? Otherwise patients will actually be dying.

As regards employment creation, it is important that we do not just ask the Government to create employment. What the Government is saying is that we should come forward with ideas on entrepreneurship and employ Zambians. It should start with us as hon. Members of Parliament. If, for example, we employed ten each, as hon. Members of Parliament, we would have 1,580 jobs created immediately. If each one of us employed twenty workers, we would have 3,160 jobs created immediately. We should not just talk about employment creation and meanwhile, we are not doing much ourselves.

Mr Speaker, I would like to quote one statement from the Budget Speech on Page 27, the last part of Paragraph 151, where the hon. Minister said and I quote:

‘In launching the Fifth National Development Plan and Vision 2030, we have set ourselves goals for accelerated development of our country. We must now, individually commit ourselves to achieving these goals by setting individual targets of our contribution to the realisation of the national goals.’

Mr Speaker, what this means is that we all have understood the Fifth National Development Plan. Let us sit back as individuals and see what our contribution could be. If we are talking of creating employment, what could be my contribution to that? If we are talking of improving the operations of the mine sector, what could be your contribution to this? We do not need to just criticise whatever is going on. There is a need to avoid the armchair critics of incoming investors. Let us appreciate the effort that our Government is making by bringing investors.

Sir, if one stays in a thatched house and has no clue that there is copper or emeralds under the house, even if they live for 100 or 200 years, they will still be poor. The emeralds that we are mining today did not come yesterday. God did not manufacture it yesterday. It has been there even when Jesus Christ was on earth, but nothing was done about them. Our people remained poor. When someone comes and says ‘where you are there is this and I know where to sell it,’ the best thing to do is co-operate with that person and see how we can maximise the benefit and not insult that person.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker I would like to inform the hon. Members that there is still plenty of copper in this country and even other minerals. Instead of complaining about how investors are making a lot of money, let us sit back, reflect and see how we can contribute by working together with these people so that we can benefit to the maximum. The Government is committed to providing geological information. If you want to know where the minerals are, go to the Geological Department in the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development and they will tell you where there is copper and what has been done so far. Let us not just criticise. We should see how we can get involved.

Sir, Chambeshi Mine was closed for quite a long time. I do not know where the people who are criticising today, where. This Government has brought the good investors who said even if a percentage of copper was there, they could bring machinery that could extract it and make it better and viable. However, we are complaining that they are taking our money. Which money? For about five to ten years the place was dormant and we were not making any money from there. We need to appreciate these investors.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Dr Puma: With regard to the interpretation of the 2007 Budget Address, some hon. Members mentioned that it would be very difficult for their fathers and relatives in the village to understand the budget. Another question was asked on what benefit the Budget was to the common man in the street?

Mr Speaker, it is very important that we ourselves need to understand this Budget first. If we do not understand it, how do we explain it to our fathers? If you go to the village and tell them about GDP and the inflation rate, the way it is in the Budget Speech, they will not know what you are talking about. You need to interpret it in a language that is applicable to the village you come from. You need to talk to them about the basic issues. You must tell them that the bicycle which cost K500,000 three or four years ago now costs K200,000.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah, where?

Dr. Puma: You should tell the people that roofing sheets that cost K50,000 each some time back are now K45,000 each. Mealie-meal which cost K60,000 three  or four years ago is now K40,000. You must also tell them that since President Mwanawasa came into office, the price of mealie-meal has remained between K30,000 and K45,000. If you tell them this, they will understand what you are talking about. You must tell them also that this budget has provided free ARVs for people who are suffering from HIV/AIDS. You must tell them that fertiliser support which they are benefiting from will continue this year.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr. Puma: The dish of Kapenta which costs K20,000 will remain at that same price for the next three years.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr. Puma: That is what we mean when we say stability of the economy. Now, if you go and talk about the GDP and inflation rates, they will not know what you are talking about.

Mr Speaker, I would like to touch briefly on the issue of tax. The budget for this year is very strategic. The Government has increased tax exemption to K500,000 and this is very good news. I know that most of the people that have been employed by hon. Members will be exempted because some are paid K150,000, K200,000 and K300,000 respectively. Now, if most of our workers are exempted, how will the Government raise revenue? If the people in employment are exempted, this Government has to find money elsewhere to run the country. We need to appreciate this fact.

Ms Changwe: Hear, hear!

Dr. Puma: We also need to appreciate the tax exemptions that are priority investments that include machinery, trucks and specialised motor vehicles. These will come in tax free. This is very good. What has been observed in the past is that when you make tax exemptions, suddenly, even people who claim to be poor start importing. At one point, for example, there were no mini-buses in the country and so the Government said anyone who imported mini-buses would be tax exempt. Suddenly, some people even became rich from nowhere when they claimed they were poor earlier. They started importing buses. We need to appreciate some of these programmes the Government is putting in place.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, I would like to urge hon. Members to carefully study the budget as it offers a lot of good hope and issues. Let me caution hon. Members not to look for areas to criticise in the budget because they will not see the good contents of this budget. We need to ensure that we see the good things that are in the budget so that the benefits of this budget can accrue to the communities that we are serving.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the budget.

Mr Speaker, let me begin by looking at the transport sector. According to the speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, the preliminary data show an increment of 13.4 per cent in 2006 and 11 per cent in 2005. Its concentration is mainly on rail, land and air transport. Why was water transport neglected?

Mr Speaker, the people of Chilubi have suffered for a long time in terms of water transport. In 2005, the Government allocated K1 billion for the purchase of boats. However, we have been frequenting the office of the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport, asking him to give us funds, but nothing has been done, and yet they call themselves a listening and caring Government. When is the Government going to show the Zambian people that they are a listening and caring Government if they cannot implement things that are in black and white? It is high time the Zambian people and the Executive in particular, started sticking to their promises.

Mr Speaker, the people of Chilubi were promised a boat, but they are still waiting for it to-date. If this vessel was bought from the K1 billion, it was not only going to serve the people of Chilubi, but also Luapula, Bangweulu, Chifunabuli and Kanchibiya constituencies. However, this has never been implemented. In this vein, I am requesting the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport to ensure that this money is released in the shortest possible time.

We have had accidents on Lake Bangweulu simply because the Government is playing a negative role towards our people out there.

Mr Speaker, on the mining sector, last year, there was an increase of 11.8 per cent in the allocation to the mining and quarrying sector. A hand was supposed to be extended to the people of Luapula and Northern provinces according to the chart collected from the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. Unfortunately, no hand was extended to the people from the two provinces. Therefore, one wonders why these people have been neglected because if something is stated in the Yellow Book, our colleagues in the Executive are supposed to stick to it.

Mr Speaker, in this connection, I am making an earnest appeal to the hon. Minister of Mines Minerals Development not to forget the people of Northern and Luapula Provinces. Let him extend a hand to them in this year’s Budget.

Furthermore, according to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning’s Budget Speech on the Ministry of Health, it is indicated that last year, there was recruitment of 744 frontline medical personnel. We wonder why Chilubi has not been availed a medical doctor from 1979 to date. Ever since Chilubi became a District Hospital, our people out there have never had a chance of having a medical doctor. They always rush to Lubwe, Samfya and Luwingu hospitals for medical attention. Now the question is: When are the people of Chilubi going to enjoy the fruits of this Government?

Similarly, I am appealing to the hon. Minister of Health to see to it that the distance to ARVs distribution centres is reduced. Currently, people travel long distances to places such as Kasama and Mansa to collect drugs, which is not supposed to be the case.

Mr Speaker, on the educational sector, although we know that the Government has done something commendable, the K233 billion allocated to the construction of high schools in the Northern Province is not enough. Therefore, the Government has to do something and I know that our able hon. Minister, Professor Lungwangwa and his Deputy are capable people and will definitely do something about this.

Mr Speaker, again, the K56 billion allocated to the rehabilitation of the dilapidated infrastructure in the Northern Province is not enough. This should be looked into. On the other hand, we all know that teaching and learning materials are cardinal to learning. Unfortunately, it has been discovered that the allocation of K14 billion is inadequate. We are appealing to the Government to increase the funding for the Northern Province because it is the biggest province in the Republic.

Mr Speaker, books are very important in the education sector, but the allocation is only K38 billion. This means that the basic schools are not catered for in this allocation. Maybe, all the money will be given to high schools, which is not supposed to be the case.

Mr Speaker, in a similar vein, I would like to inform the hon. Minister of Education that teachers in rural areas, for too long a period, have been facing hardships. Most of the teachers out there have not been receiving rural hardship allowance, housing allowance, double class allowance and extra-duty allowance. Therefore, I am making an earnest appeal the hon. Minister responsible for education to motivate the teachers out there. It is imperative that we cushion them and we can only do so by giving them the allowances I have mentioned.

Mr Speaker, student teachers in training schools need to be assisted in one way or the other. I remember during the Kaunda era, when I went to college, we used to receive some meal allowances, but now student teachers are not getting any meal allowances. I am, therefore, saying the hon. Minister of Education would do better to reintroduce the meal allowance of, at least, K200,000 per month. This way, we can attract more school levers to the teaching profession.

Mr Speaker, I would like to end my debate on the education sector by saying that the University of Zambia has been neglected for too long a period. I am happy that the hon. Minister of Education …

Mrs Sinyangwe: He does not know!

Mr Chisala: … was once the man in charge of running the affairs of the institution.

Mr Speaker, if you went to the University of Zambia, you would shed tears. The reference books in use were bought in 1966. The institution has no new reference books. So, I am requesting the hon. Minister- I know he is a capable man- to see to it that at least he allocates enough money towards the purchasing of books so that …

Professor Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. The statements we make in the House are very important to the nation and the entire nation is listening, but the hon. Member is misinforming the nation with regard to what the Government has done in respect to reference books or the provision of education material at the University of Zambia and this is on record.

Is he in order to mislead or misinform the nation when the Government has allocated the resources to the procurement of educational materials and the university has gone ahead to buy text books as a policy for every course that is offered in the university? Is he in order to misinform the nation this way?

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Minister of Education has raised an informative point of order with regard to the debate of the hon. Member for Chilubi. In addition, when his turn comes to debate, the hon. Minister of Education will shade more light on matters such as this one, but it is true that hon. Members must be factual in their debate. There was a case here last week where an hon. Member said it took him three months to travel from the Copperbelt to Livingstone by train and that is not being factual.

Hon. Member for Chilubi continue.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, thank you for that guidance.  Sir, I have not been speaking from without. I have facts and I am a student in the School of Education there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chisala: Sir, there is a need for the ministry to send more teachers to Chilubi. What is contained in this year’s Budget is not enough to enable the Government recruit more teachers. After all, there is a an error because it is indicating that there are only 334 teachers required when in actual fact, the office of the District Education Board Secretary indicated that we needed about 497 teachers. Something has to be done about this.

Mr Speaker, I wish to make an earnest request to the minister responsible for lands in the sense that, in this year’s Budget, I have not seen anything going towards land arbitration. This country has been experiencing land disputes amongst our chiefs.  I can give you an example of the disputes which have been going on for a long time between Chief Shimumbi of Luwingu and Chiwanangala of Chilubi. The office of the Permanent Secretary has been going to this area, but unfortunately, nothing has been done to resolve the disputes. In this connection, my earnest appeal is that the hon. Minister should pump in more money this year so that stakeholders can bring this issue to an end. We cannot let people continue pointing fingers at one another.

Mr Speaker, issues of land are very crucial. In most countries, these are issues which cause conflicts.

Sir, I now want to turn to my colleague who plays a very cardinal role in national development and this is the hon. Minister of Works and Supply. A country without a proper road network cannot develop. In this regard, my point of emphasis is that our elder brother who is in charge of the ministry should help the people of Chilubi and Luwingu by availing them roads. These people need a good road network. Today, amongst these hon. Ministers we have, nobody can go to Chilubi, not even Luwingu, especially Sombo area because the road network is extremely bad. There are all impassable. I am therefore, appealing to the Government, particularly President Mwanawasa to order hon. Ministers to visiting each district every year because this is when they are going to see the problems our people have been going through.

Furthermore, I wish to turn to the agricultural sector. The performance of the District Agriculture Co-ordinating Officer is below a par because he has no transport. How do you expect somebody to perform wonders and up to the expectation of the Zambian people when you do not have the necessary transport in place.

Mr Speaker, I am appealing to the hon. Minister responsible for agriculture to see to it that something is done about this issue. By so doing, we are going to promote efficiency.

Mr Speaker, I wish to lodge a complaint that the trend of delivering fertiliser between January and March in Chilubi should come to an end with immediate effect.

Sir, I have been frequenting the office of the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives day and night with a view to requesting the ministry deliver fertiliser from Samfya to Chilubi. This year, the people have not received fertiliser. The problem being that the contractor who was charged with the responsibility of transporting fertiliser from Samfya to Chilubi is nowhere to be seen. Therefore, I would love the ministry to do something about it. We are not happy at all. If we continue doing things like this we are promoting inefficiency. People who have been charged with the responsibilities and are failing to work please, it is important that they are brought to book and that is when they are going to learn a lesson.

Mr Speaker, I would like to make a comment on the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services.

Sir, the other day I was deeply disappointed. When I went with a view to being covered, I was told there were no cameras. They told me that one camera was in France with the Head of State. Yes, of course, he is number one and he is supposed to have that camera. When I asked for the other cameras, I was told that the other camera was with the Vice-President. Is this the way we re going to run this country. It is pathetic.

Mr Speaker, my earnest request to the hon. Ministers responsible is that I am making a humble request to buy at six cameras, one for the President, one for hon. Ministers, hon. Members in his House and two will go to the general public so that we can be able to disseminate information.

Mr Speaker, it is also important that the people who are working, Zambia national ZANIS and ZNBC have to be cushioned by the means of getting allowances. By so doing, you are going to motivate these people.

Mr Speaker, I just do not want to go any further, but I would like to say, I would like my elder brothers from the Ministries of Energy and Water Development, Works and Supply, Education, and Health to go to Chilubi and see the suffering of the people so that they can do something in this budget.

Mr Speaker, I beg to thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the budget.

Sir, this year’s theme for the budget is and I quote:

“From Stability to Improved Service Delivery”

Sir, the economy of this country has stabilised. That is the impression it creates. The Government has committed itself to improving service delivery. I just hope that they live up to this theme. You will be committed to delivering services as you have said yourselves. However, knowing how the MMD Government works, I doubt if they will effectively manage the social and economic affairs of this country.

Mr D. Mwila: They will not do anything!

Mr Chongo: Let me talk about the issue of Pay As You Earn (PAYE).

Mr D. Mwila: Tababombapo!

Mr Chongo: Mr Speaker, it should be noted that PAYE is still very high.

Mr D. Mwila: Tabalipilapo tax aba!

Mr Chongo:

It would have been better if the exempt figure was not less than K700,000. I am mindful of the fact that with that push there is a loss of about K18 billion going by the statistics we have if we push the threshold from K500,000 to K700,000. This loss could have been a result of this push, but can also be incurred through other means. For instance, we are talking about K1 billion for the construction of the President’s house which is not needed immediately because this President has another four years in office.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: Why not wait until he retires?


Mr Chongo: In my view, they think that all these important areas have been adequately catered for, hence the K1 billion has to go to the construction of the President’s house.

Mr D. Mwila: Why the hurry?

Mr Chongo: Sir, let me now talk about agriculture. It is good that the Fertiliser Support Programme is showing signs of working, but we need to encourage the Government to improve on this even more. This programme is targeted to the so-called vulnerable, but viable peasant farmers. We should have considered bringing the vulnerable civil servants that we are talking about into this tax band because this Government is not able to pay civil servants adequately. If civil servants were included in this programme at least they could get farming inputs like fertiliser, maize seed etc, to supplement their meagre salaries. This will bring security to the Civil Service and teachers would not think about tuition and the like. They would have ample time to be in class and teach. So, the Government should consider treating the vulnerable civil servants along the same lines as vulnerable, but viable farmers.

As for the mining sector, no doubt it has assisted in the development of this nation from the time of Independence. Therefore, we should treat this sector with the seriousness it deserves.

Mr Speaker, we are told that there are a lot of investors that are coming from friendly countries to invest in the mining industry. We are also told that we have a lot of mineral resources that are lying around this country. Why not bring the investors and show them that we have this resource in Northern Province, Luapula Province and elsewhere. For instance, we have copper in Mwense District, why are we not bringing investors to open up these areas so that people do not migrate to urban areas in search of jobs.

Mr Speaker, there was a report on copper in Mwense District about six years ago. We were told the activities were at the stage of exploration. Really, does it have to take six years to prospect this resource? This is where you should call in investors to assist. We should first allocate money to the prospecting and exploration work so that we can speedily come up with the information that miners need. Even artisan miners who just use hand tools should be accommodated because we have a lot of copper coming from Congo DR through Mwense and Mansa who are using artisan tools and they are making a lot of money that way.

Mr Speaker, probably the copper that is in Mwense is not the type that needs mechanised systems of mining. Why should it take us that long to come up with information that the people of Zambia need? If we opened mines in this area, we would up infrastructure such as processing plants in these areas. We do not just have to run to processing plants in Chambishi and Chingola; we need to distribute the wealth of this country evenly.

Mr Speaker, on social sectors, I am going to support a budget that provides social services such as hospitals or health facilities to our people. Mwense has been a district since 1967 and 1968, but it does not have even a single hospital. We do not even have a doctor in Mwense. In Mambilima, Chipili and Mwense, male nurses serve as doctors. This is very bad. Why do we not think of giving people of these areas facilities that they will be able to talk about? As a result of not having a hospital in this area, major medical cases have to be transferred to Mansa General Hospital. Of course, when you send patients to Mansa, there are financial implications. This is because relatives have to follow the patients. Also, hospitals are congested and there is a complaint that the death toll has increased in Mansa General Hospital, an indication that the doctors there are not working at all. This is because of the many cases in the hospital from other places. Why do you not just build hospitals in each district? The clinic has no facilities such as ambulances; there is only one ambulance at the moment. This ambulance has to service all the three constituencies that are in Mwense District.

Mr Speaker, I witnessed one incident where a pregnant woman was being ferried to Mansa General Hospital. When the ambulance was leaving, there was another case from Chipili Constituency and when it was half-way rushing this pregnant woman to Mansa, there was a phone call that the ambulance needed to pick up another patient in Mambilima. Can you imagine how painful it was for the pregnant woman is? I can only imagine because I have never been a woman.


Mr Chongo: I have never been a woman. I only imagine the pain that she went through.


Mr Chongo: I hope the hon. Minister of Health, since she can understand such issues, can tell us how it feels.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo: This is very sad, and yet this is a listening Government that people are talking about. Is that listening? I will support a budget that will address areas such as education for our children and put up infrastructure. We have the so called community schools which only have poles with thatched roofs and you call them schools. Somebody out there is happy to report that they are doing the best, is that the best? That cannot be the best. It is just very embarrassing to this nation. We need to do something in that area. I will support a budget that will address areas like water and sanitation. This is why I will not hesitate to support ministries such as that of Energy and Water Development and Local Government and Housing because they have the responsibility of ensuring that these facilities are taken to the people.

It was only yesterday, Mr Speaker, that we received a report in here saying that from 2001 to 2007, only about 180 boreholes had been sunk in Luapula Province whereas in the Southern and Central provinces we were given figures of 5210 and 460 respectively. Yes, people of Southern Province need the water; that is commendable. We should not always think that since there are rivers in Luapula Province, people can easily access this water, not at all. In many instances, people have to walk four kilometres to the river to draw the dirty water which they have to bring home and drink, hence the many cases of dysentery in this area …

Mr Speaker: Order!

(Debate Adjourned)

The House adjourned at 1255 hours until Tuesday, 27th February, 2007.