DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE FIRST SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 5th April, 2007

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_____

RULING BY THE HON. MR SPEAKER ON THE POINTS OF ORDER RAISED BY THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF WORKS AND SUPPLY, HON. B.  TETAMASHIMBA, MP, ON ALLEGED DUAL PARTY MEMBERSHIP OF MR G. LUBINDA, MP, MR H. MTONGA, MP, AND MRS A. M. MWAMBA, MP, MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT FOR KABWATA, KANYAMA AND LUKASHYA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCIES, RESPECTIVELY

Mr Speaker: The House will recall that, on Wednesday, 31st January, 2007, the Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, raised a point of order alleging dual party membership of the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata Constituency, Mr G. Lubinda, MP.

The House will also recall that on Friday, 16th February, 2007, the Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, raised another point of order alleging that the hon. Members of Parliament for Kanyama and Lukashya Constituencies, namely, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, respectively, were holding dual party membership as at January, 2007.

Hon. Members, as the two points of order raised are on the same issue of dual party membership of the three hon. Members and centres on almost the same facts, I have decided to combine the two points of order and make one ruling as follows:

Alleged dual party membership involving the hon. Member for Kabwata Parliamentary Constituency, Mr G. Lubinda, MP.

Hon. Members, on Wednesday, 31 January, 2007, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 162, asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu East, Mr Batuke Imenda, MP, the Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, raised the following point of order:

“Mr Speaker, the Constitution of Zambia states that:

“No Member of Parliament shall be in this House if he belongs to two political parties. The Member speaking on the Floor, in 2001, was removed from this House for associating himself with United Party for National Development (UPND).

“Mr Speaker, during the 28th September, Tripartite Elections, Hon. Lubinda published posters everywhere in Kabwata, and I had the opportunity to go and take pictures, one of which I will lay on the Table, showing the face of Hon. Lubinda.

“When you read from afar, the advertisement will be that of a United Liberal Party (ULP) candidate, but the ballot symbol on that same ballot paper states, Lubinda Given, Patriotic Front, and there is a boat and an ‘X’.

“As at that time, the only political parties that were accepted even by the Electoral Commission of Zambia to have alliances was (sic) the UPND, FDD and UNIP who stood as United Democratic Alliance (UDA). Even the ballot papers stated those three political parties and their leaders. The Hon Member of Parliament I am talking about is still the Chairperson for Information and Publicity for ULP.”

The Hon Member went on to quote from The Post newspaper of Tuesday, 9th January, 2007, Edition No. 3736, and he stated as follows:

“‘Sata-Saki Alliance Crumbles’ was the headline, and ‘I will lay this on the Table.’”

“The Patriotic Front will no longer be bound by the Memorandum of Understanding to decide with the ULP Party Leader”, Michael Sata has said. Giving an insight of the political strategy to guide his party in the year 2007 and beyond, Sata said, ‘PF will now operate as a single entity.’

“He said PF members were not impressed with ULP’s performance in the areas that where allocated to them in the September, 28th elections. Mr Sata said they did not sign any legal agreement with ULP President Sakwiba Sikota when the two agreed to work together through the Electoral Pact and, as such, there were no compelling reasons for the two parties not to operate separately.

“Mr Speaker, is the Hon Member of Parliament in order to be disguising himself as a Member of Parliament when his own advertisements that he put up were also stating that he is a member of ULP?

“Sir, I need your serious ruling on this matter and will lay this document on the Table.”

In my immediate remarks, I said:

“The hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Works and Supply has raised a constitutional matter with regard to the party affiliation of the Hon Member of Parliament for Kabwata.

“Matters of a constitutional nature, when raised in the House, require in-depth study. Accordingly, I defer the decision on this matter until I have studied it and have established or not established a prima facie case. In other words, I shall rule on this matter at a later date.”

2. Alleged dual party membership involving the Hon Members for Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency and Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency, Mr H Mtonga, MP and Mrs A M Mwamba, MP, respectively

The House will also recall that, on Friday, 16th February, 2007, the Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Hon B Tetamashimba, MP, raised another point of order on the Floor of the House alleging that the Hon Members of Parliament for Kanyama and Lukashya, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, respectively, were holding dual party membership as at January, 2007. He stated, in part:

“The ditching of ULP and Hon Sakwiba Sikota by the trio Members was after President Sata wrote to Mr Speaker and PF Members of Parliament and the three ULP Members who were asked to choose between ULP and PF. You may also recall that in my previous point of order, I stated that President Sata of PF denied there being any alliance between ULP and PF.

“Mr Speaker, as at January 2007, before the trio resigned from ULP, they were members of ULP and PF, and their resigning confirms their dual membership of these parties.

“Mr Speaker, the law on Members of Parliament who hold dual membership is very clear and for people whose evidence of membership and not association like was the case with the speaker on the Floor cannot be allowed to go against the constitutional requirement on Members of this House, which is that no Member shall keep his seat when he holds dual membership.

“Mr Speaker, are the two hon. Members in order to be staying in this House claiming to represent PF when they were holding dual membership as at January 2007 and even as at 18th February 2007 in my last point of order, I produced a poster of Hon Lubinda?

“Mr Speaker, I need your very serious ruling so that the integrity of this House, in keeping and abiding by the laws it makes, are not abrogated by Members who want to eat with both hands by carrying dual membership.”

In my immediate remarks on the point of order, I said as follows:

“The hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Works and Supply did raise a similar point of order recently, in that case on one hon. Member. The point of order he has now raised adds two other names of hon. Members to that list. As the House will recall, I did refer the earlier point of order for consideration to the Committee that deals with Members’ privileges. I believe the investigation is on-going.

“Quite obviously, in view of the developments, the additional points or matters that have been raised in the point of order will also be added on to the assignment by the Committee on Members’ Privileges. This is simply to inform the Members of the House, especially those who are new, that your Committee system is very thorough and very impartial. Nothing will be overlooked until the truth, in accordance with the law, is ascertained.”

Further, the House may wish to know that, in addition to the above point of order, Hon B. Tetamashimba, MP, wrote a letter to the Hon Mr Speaker, dated 28th February, 2007, in which he attached a copy of the “Liberal” Newspaper, Issue No 1, Volume 1, for November 30 - December 14, 2006. The Hon Deputy Minister drew the attention of the Speaker to an article under column 2, on the first page of the paper with the headline: “ULP enters Parliament after only two months of existence” which, in part, read as follows:

“Within two months of existence, the United Liberal Party managed to get to Parliament with an effective representation.

“Led by its president, Honourable Sakwiba Sikota as Member of Parliament for Livingstone, the Party has such effective MPs as Hon. Batuke Imenda, Hon Eileen Imbwae for Lukulu East and Lukulu West respectively. Others include Hon. Henry Mtonga as Kanyama MP and Vice-President of the United Liberal Party, Hon Given Lubinda “Zayelo” who is not only MP for Kabwata Constituency but the Chairperson for Information and Publicity.

“Nicknamed ‘Giant Killer’ for defeating former Vice President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Lupando Mwape, in the 2006 General Elections, Hon. Alfreda Mwamba, MP, for Lukashya Constituency is also Chairperson for Legal Affairs in ULP.

“However, the latter three who are ULP were elected under the Patriotic Front/ULP Pact using the PF election symbol.”

Another Article, on page 2, with the headline “ULP Women take the Lead,” read in part, as follows:

“The United Liberal Party has produced two female Members of Parliament in its short existence, Hon Eileen Imbwae and Hon Alfreda Mwamba.

“Apart from the two honourable Members of Parliament the party has a good number of women in the high positions of the party.”

3 Procedure Followed in Investigating the Alleged Dual Party Membership.

Hon Members, in line with parliamentary procedure and practice, and the rules of natural justice, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly wrote to the following to obtain information on the allegations raised by the Hon Deputy Minister of Works and Supply as well as on the contents of the articles in The Liberal:

1. The three hon. Members alleged to hold or have held dual party membership, namely: Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP;

2. The Director, Electoral Commission of Zambia;

3. The Registrar of Societies;

4. The Secretary-General – United Liberal Party (ULP);

5. The Secretary-General – Patriotic Front (PF); and

6. The Publisher of The Liberal.

In the letters to Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly requested the three hon. Members to clarify their positions regarding the allegation that they belonged to two political parties, namely, the Patriotic Front Party and the United Liberal Party. 

Hon Members, the following were the responses from the three Hon Members alleged to hold or to have held dual party membership.

1. Response from Mr G Lubinda, MP

In his reply dated 13th February, 2007, the Hon Member stated, in part, as follows:

“In the run-up to the Tripartite Elections held on 28th September, 2006, I was supported, as a Parliamentary candidate for the Kabwata Constituency Seat, jointly by the Patriotic Front and the United Liberal Party. The PF and ULP agreed under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact that I should stand on the adoption of the PF ticket. In recognition of the above status, during the campaigns, I concurrently used the common manifestos, campaign regalia as well as campaign slogans of both the PF and the ULP.

“This has been my status from then on, including when I was elected to the National Assembly. I wish to state that I have, since being elected to Parliament, not engaged any other party besides the ones that sponsored me and the one on whose ticket I contested the elections to become a Member of Parliament. Further, I have not engaged in any activities that compromise the relationship I had with the two parties at the time of my adoption and subsequent election.”

Hon. Members, on the allegation in The Liberal that he held the position of Chairperson for Information and Publicity in the ULP, Mr G. Lubinda, MP, in his letter of Monday, 19th March, 2007, stated, in part, as follows:

“In your letter you ask me to clarify my position on the matter of the point of order raised by Hon Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Mr B. Tetamashimba, MP, in view of his having forwarded to you a copy of The Liberal Issue No. 1 for 30th November to 14th December, 2006, which you quote as reporting that I ‘held the position of Chairperson for Information and Publicity in the ULP’ by the 30th November, 2006.

“Let me start by informing you that ‘Liberal Issue’, which in your letter, you said was attached was not at all attached. Secondly as I have no immediate access to our previous correspondence on the matter, I am wondering what the new allegation against me is. I am also wondering on what new matter you want my clarification. If it is on the statement in the “Liberal Issue”, that I held the position of Chairperson in ULP as at 30th November 2006, all I have to do is to reiterate what I stated in my previous letter to you. I trust that should suffice.”

2. Response from Mr H. Mtonga, MP

In his letter dated 21st February, 2007, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, stated, in part, as follows:

“First of all, Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, raised a frivolous and vexatious point of order because he falsely equated his own past reasons for expulsion from Parliament with my tenure. He was in Parliament sponsored by National Party, but subsequently assumed membership of another party, United Party for National Development (UPND).

“Whereas in my case, it is a notorious fact that, through the PF/ULP Electoral Pact, Parliament having been dissolved, but prior to the Tripartite Elections of 28th September, 2006, I was supported by both parties, PF/ULP, to stand as a Patriotic Front candidate in Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency. I submitted to the Electoral Commission of Zambia accordingly and was duly nominated as such. I was subsequently elected a PF Member of Parliament with overwhelming votes against four (4) other Parliamentary candidates. In the context of Article 71 (2) (c), or, indeed, any other, thereunder, I have done nothing wrong to warrant Hon Tetamashimba’s malicious point of order.

“Moreover, Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, raised what he called a “serious constitutional point of order,” thus contextualising his argument within the provisions of Article 71 governing the tenure of office of Members of the National Assembly. Most likely, he had in mind Article 71 (2) (c), which bars an elected Member of Parliament from becoming “a member of a political party other than the party of which he was an authorised candidate…”  Hon. Tetamashimba has not adduced evidence that I have abandoned membership of the Patriotic Front. I find his presumption to that effect malicious, frivolous and vexatious.

“Finally, the constitutional point of order was a serious embarrassment to me who has espoused legality and constitutionality in all I have done in public life for the past forty-five years in which I take pride. Even then, I think that Hon. Tetamashimba’s point of order should not have been allowed to the point of asking me to exculpate myself as if he had established a prima facie case. It seems to me that even the remedy sought by Hon. Tetamashimba appears to fall within the ambit of Article 72 of the Constitution, which gives final jurisdiction to the High Court.

“The Post newspaper laid on the Table to support Hon. Tetamashimba’s point of order, clearly stated my position as that of a PF Member. Since 18th July, 2006, there have been several Post Newspapers which carried articles concerning my problem. It is plain to see that the ruling party, Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) has a pathological hatred for the Patriotic Front (PF) and its leader Mr Michael Chilufya Sata whom they have vowed to suffocate. I have taken strong exception to Hon. Tetamashimba’s conduct because it is an attempt at lowering my integrity and to hinder my privilege to enjoy full tenure of the House as a duly elected PF Member of Parliament for Kanyama Constituency.”

On the allegation in The Liberal that he held the position of Vice-President of the ULP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP. in his letter dated Tuesday, 20th March, 2007, states as follows:

“In the first place, allow me to state that it is against the principle of fair play to permit Mr Ben Tetamashimba, MP, to go “fishing” for whatever else he can find subsequent to his point of order in the House and have evidence he openly tabled as the foundation of his case against me. I find it odd having earlier requested me to give you my side of the story, your office should again, direct me to do so before hearing from you.

“I submit that this is not good practice as it is most likely to introduce, into Parliament, mischievous, malicious and cut-throat politicking rendering quasi-judicial rulings by the Speaker untenable as it goes against the grain of truth, justice and fair play.

“Be that as it may, I submit herewith my considered response to your letter:

“(a) Constitutional Position

“I stand by the explanation I gave you in my earlier letter dated 21st February, 2007.

“However, I now wish to add that the Constitutional provisions i.e. Clause 71 (2) (c) of Cap. 1 of the Laws of Zambia, did not prohibit the Patriotic Front Party from “authorising” me to be their candidate for Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency notwithstanding that at the material time I had come from the United Liberal Party via an electoral pact. I am alive to the law which stops Members of Parliament from (post-elections) desertions or defections against their electoral mandate as did Mr Ben Tetamashimba. The issue of dual membership to more than one political party is neither here nor there.

“(b) Post Newspapers

“Mr Tetamashimba selected one Post Newspaper to support his point of order, ignoring an earlier one carried a day after Nomination Day in September, 2006, and several others, including one whose copy I still have, dated January 12th 2007, now attached hereto. The Constitution guarantees me the right to associate as I freely choose.

“(c) Precedent Quoted in Support of Mr Tetamashimba’s Point of Order

“The following was the ratio decidendi, in the Point of Order raised on Mr Tetamashimba when he was the “authorised” parliamentary candidate of the National Party and then joined UPND:

“Having been elected to Parliament on the ticket of National Party, he had joined UPND becoming its interim Secretary-General.

“Clearly the conduct that led to Mr Tetamashimba’s expulsion does not apply to me regardless of how much Mr Tetamashimba may wish to get at President Michael Chilufya Sata, who may have raised the point of order on him.

“(d) The Liberal

“In order to prevent speculation and hearsay, I have obtained the comment of Hon Sakwiba Sikota, Member of Parliament, Interim President of the United Liberal Party, who was reported to be the author of the article in question, which I now attach hereto as it is self-explanatory.

“It is my sincere hope that this lengthy explanation will put to rest the malicious campaigns of the Ruling Party, MMD, who are using Mr Tetamashimba to embarrass me, Parliament and the people of Kanyama Constituency.

“Moreover, I wish to draw your attention to the provisions of Clause 72 (1) (a) of the Republican Constitution which clearly states that only the High Court shall have power to declare that “…the seat of any member has become vacant,…” The case involving Akashambatwa Mbikusita-Lewanika is relevant to this issue.”

3. Response from Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP

Mrs Alfreda Mwamba, MP, in her letter dated Friday, 23rd February, 2007, stated in part, as follows:

“In response to the allegation made by the Deputy Minister for Works and Supply, Hon B Tetamashimba, MP, I have this to say:

“That I was co-sponsored by both PF and ULP due to the Electoral Pact the two parties entered into before the general elections;

“That I then was elected to stand on the PF ticket as a Member of Parliament for Lukashya. I have never joined any other party since being elected under PF. I do understand the constitutional requirement as to membership of a Member of Parliament as provided for under Article 71(2) (c) of the Republican Constitution Chapter one of the Laws of Zambia.

“I have been a member of the Patriotic Front Party since my nomination on the 15th of August, 2006.

“Your good office, Madam Clerk, is at liberty to check these facts with both the United Liberal Party as well as the Patriotic Front Party so as to assist Mr Speaker to make the right decision on the point of order raised by the Hon. Deputy Minister.”

On the allegation in The Liberal that she held the position of Chairperson for Legal Affairs in the ULP, Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, in her letter dated Tuesday, 20th March, 2007 stated, in part, as follows:

“As I explained in my earlier response on this subject matter, I have been Patriotic Front since the 15th of August, 2006, I have never gone back to ULP. In fact, the picture and article referred to in the issue of The Liberal is a surprise to me and I saw it for the first time on Friday, the 17th of March, 2007. I would, in this case, refer you to the author of the said article whose comment I have solicited as hereto attached.

“You are at liberty to inquire from the ULP Secretariat so that they can explain to you when I relinquished the position of Chairperson - Legal being referred to in the said issue of The Liberal.

“I still maintain that I am truly PF and since being elected, I have stayed so. Let me also hasten to state that I am alive to the requirement of the provision of Article 71 of the Republican Constitution and, therefore, the issue of duo membership cannot arise. In any case, my association with ULP/PF came as a result of the Electoral Pact entered into by the two parties for the purpose of elections.

“I am sure that even the author of the point of order has observed that the association between the two parties ceased after the end of the General or Tripartite elections.

“My position is that I am PF and hold no position in ULP.”

Further, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, indicated in their letters to the Clerk, that they had requested the author of The Liberal of 30th November to December, 2006, namely Mr Sakwiba Sikota, President of ULP, to clarify on the article in The Liberal. In his reply of Tuesday, 20th March, 2007, on this matter, Mr Sakwiba Sikota, MP, President of the ULP, stated, in part, as follows:

“The Liberal is a communications tool for all the members and sympathisers of our party started by the workers of the party. It, being an in-house newsletter publication, did not require any registration with the National Archives.

“The reference to your good selves who stood using the PF symbol in the article in question was written on the basis of information that was available to the writers at that time. The concept of an electoral pact is alien to most people in Zambia and hence the understandable confusion of what it means.

“The PF/ULP Electoral Pact that we entered into with the Patriotic Front, through our joint efforts, managed to get us six seats and the patriotic Front forty-three parliamentary seats. Apart from this, we had numerous council seats. The joint efforts captured the Zambian people’s imagination and desire.

“As this was a decision based on what the people wanted, we found no difficulty in allowing the three of you to stand using the Patriotic Front ticket. It also meant that it was no longer possible for you to attend Patriotic Front party caucuses and at the same time to hold positions in the ULP structures.

“It is for that reason that, even in the Parliamentary records, the three of you have deductions made from your emoluments, monthly, towards the Patriotic Front

“It is on that basis that the Management Committee released you to be sponsored by the Patriotic Front jointly with ourselves.

“The interim positions everyone held were for administrative convenience only and, in fact, the record at the Registrar of Societies does not and has never had your names amongst the office bearers.

“I believe that it is clear to all that none of you have changed your status since being elected to the National Assembly. The Editor of The Liberal newsletter shall be requested to make an appropriate clarification in the next issue.”

The House may also wish to know that the Office of the Clerk further wrote to the Publisher of The Liberal seeking clarification on the article in The Liberal on the Membership of the three hon Members to the ULP. In his response, of Wednesday, 28th March, 2007, the Communications Officer of the ULP, Mr Inambao Inambao, stated, in part, as follows:

“The true position is that the trio were PF members even at the time that The Liberal Issue No. 001, Volume 1, November 30 – December 14, 2006, was published. The positions referred to in the article were interim positions everyone held for administrative convenience only during the formation of the United Liberal Party in July, 2006, and, in fact, the records at the Registrar of Societies do not and have never had their names amongst the office bearers.

“The Editor of The Liberal Newsletter will make an appropriate clarification on the matter in the next issue, which will be published in April 2007.”

4. Response from the Director, Electoral Commission of Zambia

In the letters to the Director of the Electoral Commission of Zambia, the Office of the Clerk requested for the following information:

(i) the political party on which Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP,  were elected to the National Assembly;

(ii) the symbol used by Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, for the purposes of their election to the National Assembly; and
(iii) the nature of the electoral pact or coalition arrangements, if any, between the ULP and the PF.

In her reply of Tuesday, 20th February, 2007, the Deputy Director of the Electoral Commission of Zambia, Ms P. M. Isaacs, stated, in part, as follows, that, is in relation to Mr Mtonga, MP, and Mrs Mwamba, MP:

“1. Mr Henry Mtonga, MP, and Mrs Alfredah Mwamba, MP, were both elected to National Assembly on the Patriotic Front ticket.
 “2. Mr Mtonga, MP. and Mrs Mwamba, MP. used the Patriotic Front Party symbol of a boat for their election to the National Assembly.”

As regards Mr Lubinda, MP, the Deputy Director of the Electoral Commission of Zambia, Ms P. M. Isaacs, responded in her letter of Monday, 12th February, 2007, in part, as follows:

“1. Mr Given Lubinda, MP, was elected to Parliament on the Patriotic Front Party ticket.

“2. Mr Lubinda, MP, used the Patriotic Front Party symbol of a boat, for his election to the National Assembly.

“3. The nature of the coalition arrangements between the ULP and PF political parties may possibly be addressed by the Registrar of Societies.”
 
5. Response from the Registrar of Societies

In the two letters to the Registrar of Societies, the Office of the Clerk requested to be furnished with a list of office bearers for the United Liberal Party from its inception.

In his reply of Tuesday, 20th February, 2007, the Registrar of Societies furnished the Office of the Clerk with a copy of the list of office bearers for ULP, submitted to the Registrar when the party was being registered in July, 2006. The list is as follows:

(i) Chairperson  Clementina N Chipeta
(ii) Vice Chairperson Justine Bwalya
(iii) Secretary Felista Chanda
(iv) Vice Secretary Benandette C Chanda
(v) Treasurer Samuel S Mudenda
(vi) Vice Treasurer Kaizar P Zulu
(vii) Publicity Secretary Teddy L Chimbinde
(viii) Vice Publicity Secretary  Joseph Simubali
(ix) Trustee Fredy Mainga Milinga
(x) Trustee Martin Mufumbi Mwewa
(xi) Trustee Sibote M Sibote Warreny
(xii) Trustee  Bernard Lengwe

The current Executive Committee, according to a list submitted to the Registrar of Societies on 13th February, 2007, by the Office of the Secretary General of the ULP, comprises the following:

(i) President Mr Sakwiba Sikota 
(ii) Vice President Mr Bob Sichinga
(iii) National Chairperson Mrs Clementina Chipeta
(iv) Treasurer General Mr Francis Simenda
(v) Vice Treasurer General   Mr Yusuf Badat
(vi) Deputy Secretary General   Mr Sikwiindi Situla
(vii) Elections and Campaigns   Mr Joseph Simubali
(viii) National Youth Chairman   Mr Edwin Simusamba
(ix) National Women’s Chairlady  Mrs Charity Katilungu
(x) Chairman Local Government  Mr Peter Shumba
(xi) Trustee     Ms Harriet Fulilwa

The Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly also conducted a physical search on the ULP file at the Office of the Registrar of Societies to verify the information given by the Registrar of Societies. The Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly established that the information given by the Registrar of Societies was exactly what the Registrar had provided in his letter.

In the letters to the Secretaries-General of ULP and PF, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly sought to establish whether Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, were members of their respective political parties. The following were their responses:

6. Response from the Secretary General - United Liberal Party

In respect of Mr G Lubinda, MP, the Acting Secretary-General of ULP responded in his letter of Monday, 12th February, 2007, in part, as follows:

“We wish to confirm that Hon Given Lubinda was jointly authorised to be a candidate in the last parliamentary election by the Patriotic Front (PF) and the United Liberal Party (ULP). The PF and ULP agreed under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact that Hon. Lubinda should stand using the PF electoral symbol. This has been the status of Hon. Lubinda from the outset and even when he was elected to the current National Assembly.

“We can confirm that since being authorised to be a candidate and being elected to be a member of the National Assembly Hon. Lubinda has not become a member of a political party other than the authorising party of his candidature, as envisaged under article 71(2)(c) of the Republican Constitution.”

In respect of Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, the Secretary-General for United Liberal Party responded in his letter of Wednesday, 21 February, 2007, in part, as follows:

“We acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 19th February 2007, the contents of which we have noted.

“Accordingly, we wish to confirm that both Mr Henry Mtonga and Mrs Alfreda Mwamba were jointly authorised to be candidates in Kanyama and Lukashya Parliamentary elections by the Patriotic Front (PF) and the United Liberal Party (ULP). The PF and ULP agreed under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact that the two stand using the PF electoral symbol. This has been the status of the two since the 2006 Presidential and general elections.

“We can confirm that, since being authorised to be candidates and being elected to be members of the current National Assembly, the two have not become members of a political party other than the authorising party of their candidature, as envisaged under Article 71(2)(c) of the Republican Constitution.”

7. Response from the Secretary-General – Patriotic Front

In respect of Mr Lubinda, MP, the Secretary-General of Patriotic Front in a letter of 14 February, 2007, stated, in part, as follows:

“Mr Given Lubinda was, during the 2006 Tripartite General Elections, authorised under the Electoral Pact between the Patriotic Front and the United Liberal Party to be a candidate on the PF ticket in Kabwata.

“In view of the foregoing, Mr Lubinda is a Member of Parliament for the Patriotic Front and does not, therefore, hold any dual membership in parliament as alleged.”

In respect of Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, the Patriotic Front Secretary-General responded in his letter of Wednesday, 21st February, 2007, in part, as follows:

“I would like to state that Mr Henry Mtonga, Member of Parliament for Kanyama Constituency, and Mrs Alfreda Mwamba, Member of Parliament for Lukashya Constituency, are members of the Patriotic Front Party and not the United Liberal Party as alleged.

“The two Members of Parliament were authorised under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact during the last Tripartite Elections to contest their respective seats as members of the PF. They do not, therefore, hold any dual membership.”

Hon Members, the issue raised in the two points of order by the Hon Deputy Minister of Works and Supply were that Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Ms Alfreda Mwamba, MP, hold or held dual party membership contrary to Article 71 of the Constitution.

Hon Members, the allegations raised by the Hon Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Hon B. Tetamashimba, MP, therefore, centres on Article 71(2)(c) of the Constitution of Zambia, Cap 1 of the Laws of Zambia, which states as follows:

“(2) A member of the National Assembly shall vacate his seat in the Assembly -

(c) In the case of an elected member, if he becomes a member of a political party other than the party of which he was an authorised candidate when he was elected to the National Assembly or, if having been an independent candidate, he joins a political party or having been a member of a political party, he becomes an independent.”

Hon Members, I now turn to the issues at hand in this case which are:

(i) whether or not the Speaker of the National Assembly has power to make a decision on the points of order raised by the Hon Deputy Minister;

(ii) the nature of the electoral pact or coalition arrangements between the Patriotic Front Party and the United Liberal Party; and

(iii) whether Hon Lubinda, Hon Mtonga and Hon Alfreda Mwamba hold or have held dual party membership contrary to Article 71 of the Constitution of Zambia and the case of Benny Tetamashimba vs Speaker of the National Assembly, Chairman of the Electoral Commission of Zambia and the Attorney-General (2001/HP/0675).

Hon Members, I will now discuss the above issues in detail as follows:

1. Whether or not the Speaker of the National Assembly has Power to Make a Decision on the Points of Order Raised by the Hon Deputy Minister

Hon Members, in his response of Tuesday, 20th March, 2007, to the Clerk of the National Assembly, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, among other things, contended that the remedy sought by Hon Tetamashimba, MP, appears to fall within the ambit of Article 72 of the Constitution which gives jurisdiction to the High Court as the only authority which has power to declare a parliamentary seat vacant and not the National Assembly.

The matter has been a subject of judicial interpretation and the House may wish to be guided by the precedents set by the High Court and the Supreme Court of Zambia in the following cases:

The case of the Attorney-General & Movement for Multi Party Democracy vs Akashambatwa Mbikusita Lewanika, Fabian Kasonde, John Mulwila, Chilufya Chileshe Kapwepwe, Katongo Mulenga Maine (1993 SJ) provides guidelines on the power of the Speaker in declaring the seat of a Member of Parliament vacant in relation to Article 71 of the Constitution.

The brief facts of the case were that four Members of Parliament, who had stood and won elections on the MMD ticket decided to resign from the party on the 13th August, 1993. The National Secretary of the MMD then, wrote to Mr Speaker notifying him of the development so that he could declare the seats vacant in terms of Article 71(2)(c) of the Republican Constitution. The Hon Mr Speaker, consequently, wrote to them and informed them of the seats being declared vacant. The Members decided to challenge the decision of the Hon Mr Speaker, seeking the court’s indulgence to declare the Speaker’s decision null and void.

The Supreme Court upheld the Speaker’s decision and stated the following:

“The effect of the interpretation of Article 71(2)(c) is that the respondents in the main appeal who were petitioners in the court below vacated their seats in the National Assembly on the 12th of August, 1993, the date on which they announced their resignation from the MMD, the party on whose ticket they were elected to the National Assembly.”

In another High Court case of Hon Benny Tetamashimba versus the Speaker of the National Assembly, the Chairman of the Electoral Commission of Zambia and the Attorney General (2001/HP/0675), the House may wish to learn as follows:

The brief facts of this case were that, in 1996, Mr B Tetamashimba, MP, was elected as Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central on the National Party (NP) ticket. In 2000, the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the National Party (NP) signed a Memorandum of Understanding where Hon Tetamashimba, MP, was subsequently appointed as Secretary-General. On a point of order, the Standing Orders Committee sat and found that Mr Tetamashimba had contravened Article 71(2)(c) of the Constitution whereupon Mr Speaker declared his seat vacant.

Mr Tetamashimba applied for Judicial Review before the High Court seeking, among other reliefs, to declare the Speaker’s decision null and void. Justice J. C. Mutale dismissed the application and upheld the expulsion of Mr Tetamashimba from the House on the ground that the Speaker had complied with the rules of natural justice when he found Mr Tetamashimba guilty of dual membership and declared the seat vacant. Justice Mutale made the following observation:

“… he became a United Party for National Development (UPND) Member after waiver of normal formalities of application for membership, this thus is an exception to the rule but it unfortunately made him a dual member contrary to the provisions of Article 71 and draws him into the jurisdiction of the Speaker. The Speaker found that the applicant did have dual membership. He based his decision on that breach in full compliance with the rules of natural justice. He was afforded a hearing. There was therefore no illegality, impropriety, malice or unreasonableness when the Speaker made that decision.”

Hon Members, in the above cases, the court did not find the Speaker’s decision to declare a seat vacant ultra vires the Constitution. Their concern was whether the Speaker had rightly interpreted the Constitution by ruling that the Members had breached Article 71(2) (c) of the Constitution.

Thus, the Speaker has power to declare a seat vacant and any Member of Parliament who is not satisfied with the Speaker’s decision has recourse to the High Court by virtue of Article 72(1)(a) of the Constitution.

2. The nature of the Electoral Pact or Coalition Arrangements between the Patriotic Front Party and the United Liberal Party

Going by the evidence given by the witnesses that I have already referred to, prior to the 2006 Presidential and General Elections, the ULP and the PF entered into an electoral pact which entailed that the two parties would work together. Under the said ULP/PF Electoral Pact, the three hon. Members were jointly authorised by the two parties to stand on the PF ticket for their election to the National Assembly. In other words, although the agreement was for the two parties to work together, each candidate officially stood on one political party ticket.

Therefore, Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, were originally ULP members when the two parties agreed to work together. However, when the two parties authorised the three members to stand on the PF ticket for their election to Parliament, the evidence points to the fact that the three Members did not hold any positions in ULP, and were no longer members of ULP. Hon Members should note that, at the time the ULP was first registered with the Registrar of Societies, the three Members did not hold any positions in the ULP.

On the article in The Liberal showing that the three hon Members were ULP members who were elected to Parliament on the PF Party ticket while holding certain positions in the ULP, the House should note that, from the evidence gathered, the three may have held interim positions for administrative purposes only during the formation period of ULP in July, 2006. However, from first registration of the Party to date, they do not appear on the official list of office bearers for ULP at the Office of the Registrar of Societies. The Speaker has, therefore, no cogent documentary evidence that the three hon. Members hold or held positions in ULP after their election on the Patriotic Front ticket.

Hon Members, in relation to Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Hon B. Tetamashimba, MP, laid on the Table of the House, as evidence, a picture showing the face of Mr G. Lubinda, MP, which, from afar, reflected him as a ULP Member, but had symbols of PF, namely, a boat and an X against it and read ‘Lubinda Given, Patriotic Front.’ On this matter, the explanation given by Mr Lubinda is that he decided to concurrently use the common manifestos, campaign regalia and campaign slogans of both the PF and the ULP in recognition of the agreement between the ULP and the PF under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact which allowed him to stand on the PF ticket. The fact, as evidenced by the information from the Electoral Commission of Zambia, is that Mr Lubinda, MP, stood for elections on the Patriotic Front ticket.

3. Whether Hon Lubinda, Hon Mtonga and Hon Alfreda Mwamba Hold or have Held Dual Party Membership Contrary to Article 71 of the Constitution and the Case of Benny Tetamashimba vs. Speaker of the National Assembly, Chairman of the Electoral Commission of Zambia and the Attorney-General of 2001.

Hon Members, based on the evidence gathered on the present matter, I have established that, at the time of elections, Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, may have initially been members of the ULP, but when authorised under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact to stand on the PF ticket for their election to Parliament, they became Members of the House from the Patriotic Front Party and did not hold any positions in the ULP. According to the evidence, this position has not changed.

Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, in his point of order, made comparison to his own case and urges this House to abide by its precedent. Hon Members, in the case of Hon B. Tetamashimba v. the Speaker of the National Assembly and Others, which I have described in detail earlier, Hon B Tetamashimba had been elected to Parliament on the National Party ticket, but later became a member of the United Party for National Development, by assuming the office of the General-Secretary. The High Court found that his status in the House had clearly altered as he was both a member of the National Party and the UPND contrary to Article 71 of the Constitution.

However, from the evidence obtained from all the concerned persons and institutions as described above, I find that the three hon Members were duly elected on the Patriotic Front Party ticket and have since not had dual party membership in contravention of Article 71 (2) (c) of the Constitution. Accordingly, I find no prima facie case on the alleged dual party membership, against Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP. There is, therefore, no need for me to refer the matter to the Committee on Members Privileges, Absences and Support Services for their consideration.

I thank you all.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

______________

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

COMPLETION OF THE PARTIAL PRIVATISATION OF ZAMBIA NATIONAL COMMERCIAL BANK (ZANACO) PLC

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, exactly a week ago today, I informed this august House that I shall come to the House and make a statement on the completion of the partial privatisation of Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO). This is in accordance with the agreement of sale between the Government and Rabobank on the partial privatisation of ZANACO, which calls for full disclosure of all material information related to the transaction upon completion of sale, which was concluded on Tuesday, 3rd April, 2007.

Allow me, Mr Speaker, to inform the House that all the information concerning the transaction will be placed on the website, and I quote: ‘www.zpa.org.zm’. This information will be placed within the next twenty-four hours. Further, ZANACO has placed information concerning this transaction in the Zambian daily newspapers today.

Mr Speaker, last Thursday, 3rd April, 2007, the Government of the Republic of Zambia handed over the management and operations of Zambia National Commercial Bank Plc, commonly known as ZANACO, to the strategic investor, Rabo Financial Institutions Development known as Rabobank which is a 100 per cent subsidiary of Rabobank Nederland. This follows the signing, by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on 22nd January, 2007, of the sale and purchase agreement and subsequent satisfaction of all terms of the transaction by the parties.

The transaction has been conducted within the Cabinet approved framework, which provided for the sale of 49 per cent shares to a strategic investor and the majority shareholding of 51 per cent being retained in Zambian hands as follows:

(a) 25.8 per cent to be held by the Zambian public;

(b) 0.2 per cent to be retained by the minority shareholders;

(c) 25 per cent to be retained by the Government.

In addition, Cabinet directed that all the rural branches be retained. This shareholding structure addresses the public concerns that Zambians should hold the majority shares in ZANACO. The formula also addresses concerns that the Government should not have a majority controlling stake but be limited to a ceiling of 25 per cent ownership.

The Bank of Zambia gave the necessary waivers for Rabobank to obtain the 49 per cent shareholding, thereby, insuring that the Government did not breach the provisions of the Banking and Financial Services Act. Of the 49 per cent shareholding, Rabobank has made commitments to subsequently offload 4 per cent shares to the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU).

As regards to the 25.8 per cent to be held by Zambians, arrangements will soon be put in place to float the shares on the Lusaka Stock Exchange (LuSE). In this way, a broad spectrum of Zambian investors would be accorded an opportunity to participate in the ownership of ZANACO by buying shares.

Mr Speaker, the 25 per cent shareholding retained by the Government is important, in that it provides the Government with an option to, at an appropriate time, offload these same shares to Zambians as further empowerment or continue to hold onto the shares on behalf of the taxpayers. More importantly though, the 25 per cent shareholding grants the Government with significant minority rights protection on key strategic issues in addition to the rights afforded under the shareholders agreement.

Mr Speaker, turning to the purchase price that Rabo Financial Institutions Development (RFID) paid to acquire the 49 per cent GRZ shareholding in ZANACO, the offer price was US$8,250,000. In accordance with the sale and purchase agreement, 10 per cent of the offer price was received on the signing of the sale and purchase agreement on 22nd January, 2007 and the balance was received on completion, which was on 3rd April, 2007.

Mr Speaker, the monies arising from the proceeds of the sale, have been deposited in a current account corporate US dollar product A/c no. 003041000000047 held with ZANACO. I lay here the bank statement of the transaction for hon. Members of the House to see. I wish to inform this August House that Rabobank’s gross bid, based on the net asset value of ZANACO as at 31st December, 2004, was US$10 million. ZANACO’s net asset value as at 31st December, 2004 was US$ 20.5 million. Rabobank, therefore, in making their bid, took into account some adjustments, such as provision for consultancy fees, to arrive at the net bid of US$ 8,250,000.

Mr Speaker, as pointed out, the offer was based on the financial position of ZANACO as at 31st December, 2004. Over time, however, the financial status of the bank has changed and there is, therefore, need to assess the change, which will result in a price adjustment as provided for in the sale and purchase agreement. The Government and the strategic investor, Rabobank, will appoint an independent auditor to determine the net asset value of the bank within ninety days from the completion date of the sale. This will be the basis on which the price adjustment will be made.

Mr Speaker, contrary to apprehensions and concerns by the public, Rabobank has agreed with the Government that it would maintain all existing rural branches for a period of not less than ten years with the exception of possible re-location of branches within a radius of five kilometers due to practical business reasons.

Furthermore, Rabobank during this period has contractually committed to increasing the total number of rural branches by 20 per cent.

At completion of Sale, Rabobank has made a commitment that all serving employees will be retained and no redundancies have been agreed. With regard to unionised employees, redundancies if any, will be in line with the existing Collective Agreements and Labour Laws.

Additionally, Rabobank has only brought in three expatriates namely; the Managing Director; the Manager for Change and the Risk Manager.

Mr Speaker, Rabobank is ranked amongst the twenty-five largest banks in the world and is a broad based retail bank that has its roots firmly planted in the food and agricultural sectors dating back to the late 19th Century. The Government is, therefore, satisfied that Rabobank will re-position ZANACO as an agricultural financial services provider and developer of new agro-based products that will suit rural-based farmers and significantly contribute to the creation of wealth and employment in the agriculture sector of the Zambian economy.

Mr Speaker, the acquisition by Rabobank Nederland of 49 per cent Government share holding in ZANACO and the impending offer of 25.8 per cent of the Government shares to the Zambian public marks a major milestone in the Privatisation Programme being undertaken under the Zambia Development Agency.

Mr Speaker, allow me to assure this august House, once more, that it is the Government’s expectation that the long-term relationship that we have entered into with Rabobank will yield tangible benefits for the economy and country at large.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now given an opportunity to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mr C. Banda (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, may the Hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry tell the House whether there is another commitment made by Rabobank to offload 20 per cent of its shares to the Zambian public apart from the commitment to offload 4 per cent to the Zambia National Farmers Union.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it is Rabobank’s intention to offload the 20 per cent shares to the Zambian public through the Stock Exchange after offloading 4 per cent shares to the Zambia National Farmers Union so that it, too, complies with the Banking and Financial Services Act.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, in his detailed statement, the hon. Minister stated that as of 31st December, 2004, the asset base of the bank was US$10 million and the net asset at the same time was US$20.5 million. Would the hon. Minister, therefore, state that the adjustment in the consultancy fees resulted in the sale price of US$8.52 million?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the net asset value was US$8.250 million taking into account adjustments amongst which a sum of US$665,000 has been paid to Price Waterhouse and another company called DLN Paper Roderick who have provided consultancy. The balance is also for consultancy that has been provided.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, regarding the 25.2 per cent of the shares that the Government will sell to the general public, I would like to find out what percentage of those shares has been earmarked for housewives and the people who are vulnerable and whether there is a mechanism to ensure that they are able to buy these shares so that they could have ownership because that bank belongs to them.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, once agreed with the Securities Exchange Commission, the shares will be floated on the Lusaka Stock Exchange and the general public, whether disabled, housewives, widows or widowers, Members of Parliament or whatever category of Zambian citizens and children alike, can access these shares by going to the Lusaka Stock Exchange or through the brokers to purchase the number of shares that they require.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I need some clarification from the hon. Minister. Why is he silent on the management agreement given to Rabobank. We have been discussing about shares that have been granted. Why is he picking on specific elements in there? Could he please explain the agreement and lay it on the Table? That, to me, is more important than shares.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, as I mentioned in my speech, the Government has nothing to hide. All the information relating to transactions are available on the website. I have laid on the Table the issues pertaining to the financial transactions. If hon. Members would like to have more information, they can access it on the website. The Sale Agreement is also available on the website because there is nothing to be hidden. We thought, as a Government, that people were worried about the sale, but if it relates to management issues, it is available in the Sale Agreement. It is a pity now, and too late, but I could have laid it on the Table as well.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, this is a well-known fact that, of late, ZANACO has been making huge profits. Could the hon. Minister inform this House what other reasons have warranted the sale of ZANACO to Rabobank?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I think we have been through this process during the first statement I made in Parliament when I highlighted the difficulties that ZANACO was facing, such as the huge debt for renovations. There are so many reasons that I have advanced which necessitated the sale of ZANACO, needless to say, of course, that ZANACO is making a profit now. It is agreed, but I think in my statement earlier on, this was because the Government had put in almost K250 million. That is why you are seeing the balance sheet records like that. If the Government took out that K250 million, the problems of ZANACO are not artificial.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that ZANACO will maintain its rural branches for ten years. What will happen thereafter?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, assurance of maintaining the rural branches for ten years is to allay the perceptions that were obtaining, that Rabobank is closing rural branches. Therefore, we have put it at a minimum of ten years to allay your fears. After that, ZANACO is going to be profitable and the rural branches will also be profitable and there will be no need for them to close.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the Government governs on behalf of the people of Zambia and the people of Zambia have said no to the privatisation of ZANACO. Is it right to privatise against the wish and will of the people?

May the hon. Minister assure this House that five years from now, they will not come, as in the case of the mines, to tell this House …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, before we broke for tea, I was saying that the Government governs on behalf of the people and the people of Zambia said no to the sale of ZANACO. Therefore, is it right for this Government to go ahead and privatise ZANACO against the wishes of the people of Zambia?

I would also like the hon. Minister to assure this House that five years from now the Government will not come, as in the case of the mining agreements, to tell us that they signed this contract under duress.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I would like to put this on record especially for the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan. The Government has not privatised ZANACO. I will repeat that for the benefit of the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan.

Laughter

Mr Konga: The Government has not privatised ZANACO. It is only some of its shares that have been sold.

If you listened carefully to my ministerial statement, the majority of the shares are being owned by Zambians. I also indicated that Rabobank will soon offer its 4 per cent shares to the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU) to which most district provincial co-operatives belong. The members of these co-operative unions are Zambians.

Once again, more Zambians are going to have shares in ZANACO. With time, Rabobank has committed to selling its 20 per cent shares on the Lusaka Stock Exchange which will enable more Zambians to own shares in the bank. What more evidence do you want that the Government has not privatised ZANACO? It is only some of its shares that have been privatised.

I would like to mention to the hon. Members of the House that the net asset value of ZANACO in 2004 was US$20.5 million. The 49 per cent of that amount translates into US$10 million and this was as at December, 2004. Within ninety days, we will know how ZANACO has moved. As we have heard, it is performing better. Therefore, that asset value will go up but we have to wait for ninety days to get that information. For the benefit of the hon. Members of the House and the citizens at large, the Government has only sold some shares of ZANACO. 51 per cent of the remaining shares or the majority stake is still held by Zambians.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Order! I have also permitted the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to give a ministerial statement.

THE APPROVAL OF THE COUNCIL ANNUAL BUDGET ESTIMATE FOR 2007

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to make a Ministerial Statement on Government’s approval of the 2007 Councils Annual Budget Estimates.

Mr Speaker, as you are aware, councils are required, under the Local Government Act, to prepare Annual Budget Estimates of Revenue and Capital Expenditure for each financial year running from 1st January to 31st December.

Mr Speaker, the Central Government’s powers to approve the Council Annual Estimates of Revenue and Capital Expenditure are drawn from Section 39 (1) of the Local Government Act, Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia, which empowers the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to approve Councils’ Annual Budget Estimates.

Mr Speaker, in approving the 2007 Council Annual Budgets, my ministry considered the policy guidelines that were issued to all the seventy-two councils in Zambia in line with the vision and aspirations of President Mwanawasa, SC., and his MMD Government. The guidelines issued by my ministry to all local authorities are contained in the Ministerial Circular No. MLGH/102/52/1, dated 10th October, 2006, which I now lay on the Table for the information of the hon. Members of Parliament.

Mrs Masebo laid the paper on the Table.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, one of the key guidelines was on the levels of expenditure as it related to service provision. Councils were directed to spend at least 40 per cent of their total council budgets on municipal services and 60 per cent of their total council budgets on personal emoluments and recurrent administrative costs. This was an improvement from a minimum of 30 per cent in the previous years, that is, from 2003 to 2006.

Mr Speaker, councils were also directed to come up with realistic budgets so as to ensure that incomes being projected would actually be collected. Councils were also instructed to ensure that only capital projects with confirmed funds should be included in their annual budgets. These are projects funded by the Government, donors and council internal resources.

Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the public, through this august House, that on Friday, 30th of March, 2007, the Government approved all the seventy-two submitted Council Annual Budgets. However, I wish to state that all council budgets were approved with amendments. These amendments were meant to bring the council budgets in line with the issued guidelines and also to take into account the Fifth National Development Plan and the National Budget.

Mr Speaker, it was noted that some councils had difficulties in attaining the minimum requirement of 40 per cent of the total budget for service provision because they had a huge wage bill which makes it difficult for them to have excess funds which can be channeled to service delivery.

Mr Speaker, for example, the Lusaka City Council had 41 per cent of its total budget going towards salaries and wages and a balance of 51 per cent which was being shared between meeting recurrent and operational cost and service provision which is at 36 per cent. This is less than the advised 40 per cent. This situation is of great concern to the Government because councils were established to provide services and not only to employ and pay staff as is the case in some councils. In approving the budgets, we have ensured that at least 40 per cent of the total budget goes towards service provision. We have managed to do this by making some adjustments within the budgets that were submitted to us.

Sir, my ministry has also engaged the Ministry of Finance and National Planning in dealing with old council debts so as to find ways and means of completely clearing off the debt, especially those relating to statutory bodies like the Local Authority Superannuation Fund (LASF), whereby councils owed K11 billion as of 31st December, 2006.

Mr Speaker, it was however, gratifying to note that most councils’ total budgets had increased when compared to 2006 council budgets. The budgetary estimates for 2007, in comparison to 2006, for all the seventy-two councils are shown in Appendix 1, which I will also now lay on the Table of this House for the information of hon. Members that would like to know exactly what their budgets of their individual district councils are.

Mrs Masebo laid the paper on the Table.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, you will note that the 2006 figures showing actual budget performance are actually not reflected in the statement which I have laid on the Table because all councils are currently preparing their Annual Financial Statements of the previous year, 2006, which are by law, expected to be finalised by June 2007.

Sir, it is important that councils deal with projects that are budgeted for, otherwise we will end up with unrealistic budgets with projects not starting due to lack of resources or uncompleted projects all together. It must be noted that all fees and charges that have been imposed by local authorities in formulating their 2007 Budget, which have now been approved by the Government shall remain in force for the whole of the 2007 period. However, councils are allowed, by law, to apply for Supplementary Estimates in which they may propose a further increase or reduction in fees and charges which shall be reflected in the Supplementary Budgets which will, however, still need to be approved by the Government in accordance with Section 39 (2) of the Local Government Act, Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, it is important that hon. Members understand this so that we do not come up with popular decisions when we go back to councils to begin trying to reduce fees and charges that have been imposed by various councils so as to gain a political mileage. These are issues where budgets have been approved and it means the budget has to run throughout the year, 2007.

Sir, local authorities were also directed to ensure that they come up with an Activity Based Budget which means all activities to be undertaken must be budgeted for if we are to promote efficiency, accountability and transparency in the utilisation of public funds. However, it was noted that the councils’ Activity Based Budgeting format still has to be developed further to conform with Government Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) and the Activity Based Budgeting model.
 
Mr Speaker, you are aware that Section 45 (1) of the Local Government Act provides that the Government shall make grants or loans available to councils for development in their respective constituencies on such terms and conditions as may be determined by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. Section 45 (2) further states that any constituency development grant or loan made by the hon. Minister under this section shall be paid out of moneys appropriated by Parliament for a purpose.

It is gratifying that while councils had in their 2007 Estimated Budget provided K 60 million per constituency, going by past allocations, this August House has in the 2007 Budget proposed an increase of K 200 million per constituency. This will, indeed, go towards improving the welfare of our communities. To this effect, we have directed councils to increase their budgets by K 200 million per constituency pending adoption by this Parliament. The Government, through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, has since sent new revised Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Guidelines which have, in effect, given councils more powers to manage the funds to ensure maximum accountability, transparency and efficiency.

Mr Speaker, I lay on the Table of this House, the revised CDF guidelines for the information of the hon. Members of Parliament. The hon. Members will recall that one key revision in the CDF guidelines of December, 2006, relates to the identification of projects to be funded. This shall still remain the sole responsibility of the CDF Committee, subject to the approval of the council in conformity with the District Development Plans.

However, the implementation of the adopted projects, that is, sourcing of contractors or suppliers and the actual payments for works that will be done, will be exclusively implemented by the council managements, using the normal council tender procedures and the Local Authorities Financial Regulations of 1992. This means that no Members of Parliament will go around searching for their relative-contractors to do works arising from the CDF Fund. As I have always said, these guidelines are meant to save you, Members of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, councils have further been directed that the preference of projects to be financed by CDF funds should mainly go towards the education, health and agriculture sectors. We are trying as much as possible to move away from small arrangements under clubs and little projects where you end up re-supplying resources.

You are aware that councils owe various institutions like the Zambia Revenue Authority(ZRA), LASIF, Workers Compensation Fund, Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation(ZESCO), ZAMTEL, water companies and other private institutions, including legal firms and retirees. As of 31st December, 2006, a total of K55 billion was owed to the councils by various institutions. In terms of retirees and retrenchees, a total of K127 billion was owed as of 31st December 2006.

My ministry, in approving the 2007 Budget, has instructed all councils to ensure that sufficient allocations are made towards reducing its local debts. The Government, on its part, shall endevour to provide grants towards reducing the outstanding council debts. To this effect, a provision of K102.7 billion has been provided under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to help councils deal with their recurrent obligations and financing capital projects. We hope that the public can begin to notice some improvements in our councils in terms of service delivery in 2007. To this effect, 2007 has been declared as the ‘Year of Action for Local Government’. We only hope that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning will ensure that monies approved by Parliament for councils shall be released in full and in time.

Mr Speaker, as earlier indicated, we have engaged the Ministry of Finance and National Planning in dealing with the old council debts so as to find ways and means of completely clearing off the debts, especially those relating to statutory bodies like LASIF which councils owe K11 billion as of 31st December, 2006.

Councils are also owed huge sums of monies by various institutions and individuals, especially in form of property rates. Some of these debts are so old that it is unlikely that councils will manage to collect them. In some cases, it has become more expensive for councils to collect monies owed to them. The affected rate payers on the other hand are battling to make good of what is due to their councils, to the extent of becoming destitute when bailiffs pounce on them.

Mr Speaker, in the spirit of good governance and encouraging property rate payers to be current, the Government has directed councils to give a 50 per cent minimum rebate on all outstanding property rates as of 31st Decmber, 2006 and to reward those responsible rate payers who have in the past paid their rates in full and on time a 5 per cent discount on their total annual rates bill for the year 2007. This gesture by the Government to the rate payers who have defaulted for various reasons is on condition that they pay the 50 per cent balance of rate arrears in full, within six months, effective 1st January, 2007. If one fails to pay the balance of 50 per cent of the outstanding rate arrears, the council shall have the full right to enforce the provisions of the Rating Act to recover the original outstanding rates arrears due to them.

Mr Speaker, councils have also been directed to ensure that in 2007; they must be current in terms of their statutory financial obligations to other public institutions, like ZRA, LASIF, water companies and ZESCO, to mention only a few. Those councils that fail to be current due to poor management will not be supported with grants or loans by the Government.

Mr Speaker, my ministry is currently lobbying the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to exempt the councils from paying to the Workmen’s’ Compensation Fund on the understanding that councils are also public institutions with their own internal compensation system. Therefore, paying to the Workmen’s Compensation Fund for their workers, is actually a double payment by councils as they are required, under the Local Government System, to pay compensation to their workers in case of an accident. It is unfair considering that the amounts being assessed by the Workmen’s Compensation Fund are beyond councils’ budgets and that, in fact, no council worker has, on record, received any compensation from the Workmen’s Compensation Fund Board in the last fifteen years. It is further argued that the amounts paid out by the Workmen’s Compensation Fund Board, in case of an accident, are very low compared to the councils which pay the workers ten times his salary in case of an accident.

Mr Speaker, we hope the Minister of Labour and Social Security will use the powers under the Labour Laws to exempt councils, to save them from collapsing.

In terms of other outstanding debts not mentioned in this statement, councils have been directed to re-negotiate any such outstanding debts and come up with a plan of action to liquidate such debts. Councils have further been directed to, at least, make a reasonable provision to settle these outstanding debts in this year’s Budget. This plan shall be forwarded to the Provincial Local Government Office and the ministry.

The issue of high outstanding legal debts owed by councils is of great concern to the Government. Most councils have various pending cases in courts, ranging from staff matters, to matters relating to councils owing individuals, private and public institutions. In the past, councils lost equipment like graders, vehicles, etc, as a result of default court payments. The Government, in an effort to save councils from total collapse as a result of these court cases, brought out a Bill to protect councils against seizure of council properties by bailiffs. Although this has, in many aspects, saved councils, it is not a solution to the problems arising from the so many legal cases pending against local authorities today. I would like to guide my colleagues who are members of councils to be very cautious, especially when they want to fire Chief Officers. Ensure that you follow the laid guidelines. This is because there is a tendency by senior councillors, Members of Parliament, including hon. Ministers, when they go into these councils, to start thinking that they are very senior and carelessly begin to fire these officers. When we end up in court, we lose many cases. In fact, we have lost 99 per cent of the cases. Therefore, we would like to guard against this and ensure that officers are treated within the laws provided.

Mr Speaker, councils which had not budgeted for ward development funds have also been advised to ensure that certain resources are ear-marked specifically for development at the ward level. However, many councils did budget for ward development funds and my ministry will soon issue specific guidelines on the utilisation of these ward funds to ensure transparency and accountability.

Mr Speaker, councils have also been directed to specifically allocate some reasonable amounts for two new programmes. One programme is the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme, which shall be implemented three times in each year by cities, towns and villages to help clean up their surroundings and institutionalise cleanliness, environmental and health issues. The other programme is the Local Government Week Programme which seeks to get citizens to learn, understand and appreciate the role of councils and their obligations both as individual citizens and corporate entities.

Mr Speaker, I want to send a notice to the public that under this programme “The Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme”, we shall continue in ensuring that the lawlessness that is prevailing in our country is stopped. To this effect, I want to warn all those who are on the streets that the exercise of removing street vendors across the country will continue, and very vigorously this time around.

Mr Speaker, councils have been directed to freeze contracting of any new debts, including effecting any further retrenchments, effective 1st January, 2007. The Government, working with other co-operating partners, in particular, JICA, is this year going to validate all outstanding debts up to 31st December, 2006 to ensure transparency and accountability.

Mr Speaker, the Government is determined to deal with the local council debts in order to reduce poverty and improve the lives of the communities.

Mr Speaker, in approving the budget, we have directed councils to improve collection of personal levy by carrying out assessments and also to ensure that all those involved in trading business of any kind, where possible, be issued with a trading licence. Councils have been directed to ensure that physical inspections of all areas and traders are done to ensure compliance with the law.

For example, we have a situation where the Southern Water and Sewerage Company Limited owes K12 million in unremitted personal levy deducted from their workers’ salaries. This situation is common among a number of institutions and it is unacceptable. For those that fall under my ministry like the water utilities, my ministry will cut from the utility’s company’s grant and remit it to the Livingstone City Council in the case of the Southern Water and Sewerage Company to ensure that they are current in what they owe to the local authority. In the same vein, as earlier stated, all councils must be current with their 2007 obligations, including water bills.

Mr Speaker, as we are concluding debate on the National Budget, I want to take advantage of this to say that since the provincial heads are in this House, they must help us to ensure that the Government institutions pay for facilities that are offered by other quasi Government institutions. It will not help to see people use their positions because you are a Provincial Minister or a District Commissioner to direct these institutions not to enforce collection of money. I would like to inform you that as hon. Minister responsible for these institutions under my ministry, I shall not allow anybody from any other ministry, whether you are a District Commissioner or not, to interfere in the work of these public institutions.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: We, ourselves, must have discipline within the Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: We cannot be using our positions to deter other Government institutions from collecting monies from other utilities.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo:  Mr Speaker, councils have been reminded to ensure that their approved budgets are open to the general public for scrutiny, including Monitoring and Evaluation. This is a transparent Government and we want to ensure that everything we do is open to the public. The Government has further reminded councils to ensure that they expand works according to their budget otherwise the Government will charge any principal officer or Chief Officer for not advising or wrongly advising a council resulting into making a wrong expenditure. This would also include suspending a council if councillors disregard the legal advice of the principal officer or, indeed, the Government in its budget implementation process.

Therefore, do not come up with wild projects which are not budgeted for in your budgets. You should ensure that only those programmes that have been adopted by your councils and, now, approved by the Government shall be implemented. Do not go upstream, especially Dr Guy Scott, and throw your weight around.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo went off the microphone.

Interruptions

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I just want to advise my hon. Colleagues, because it is very common for a number of my colleagues, and this is not just my colleagues on the left, but all of us that when we go in these councils, we must understand that the Mayors, as Chairpersons, are the leaders of those local authorities. Therefore, whether you are hon. Minister, Deputy Minister, hon. Member of Parliament or National Secretary of some party, do not join the councils and bulldoze these people. No! You are under them.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: When you go out to your political parties, yes, you can be National Secretary and you can say that in the councils. Do not run the councils as individuals becuase councils are corporate entities and no single person can influence and bulldoze others and want to use political parties to expel others and suspend them. Please, help me because we are in this game together to serve the public. We should also work together to ensure that these councils deliver services. As I have always said, if your local authorities are not provided with basic services, it means that you, as a Government and, indeed, as an MP, are doing nothing and we shall all be judged harshly at the end.

Mr Speaker, I want to conclude by stating that the 2007 Councils Budgets have been approved with amendments in order to bring councils’ budgets in line with the Central Government’s policy, priorities and the citizen’s aspirations as articulated in Vision 2030 and the Fifth National Development Plan and the 2007 proposed National Budget.

In this regard, all councils have been directed to ensure that their activities, programmes and projects are in line with the approved 2007 Annual Budget.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Quality!

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Members may ask questions on points of clarification, which the hon. Minister raised in her statement.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, it is one of the advantages of being mentioned because one catches the attention of the Chair. Can it be clarified by the hon. Minister whether she considers councillors and, of course, this includes Mayors, are not subject to political party discipline in the same way as hon. Members of this august House? Are they not subject to be disciplined by their parties?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I want to use this opportunity to advise my hon. Colleagues, especially those in the Opposition, that, indeed, the councillors who are members of the council have the right to appear before them for any party disciplinary issue. This does not relate to their performance in the councils because when they are in the councils, they cease to be partisan and they are guided by the regulations of the Local Government Act.

Mr Speaker, we cannot have a situation where, on one hand – only the Government, through the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, can issue regulations on the day-to-day operations of local councils. Now, we have a situation where the PF also wants to issue a contrary code of conduct for councillors to the extent where they tell them that the party takes precedence over council meetings. That is against the law and, to that extent, that is anarchy.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that no worker has benefitted from the Workmen’s Compensation Fund for fifteen years, is not possible for the Government to stop councils contributing to this fund so that money can be used for other services in our councils?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, at the moment, it is not possible because the law says that councils must remit monies to the Workmen’s Compensation Fund. In the Labour Law, there is a proviso that is provided which gives powers to the Minister of Labour and Social Security to exempt any such institution that appeals. As a ministry, we have appealed to the Minister of Labour and Social Security to exercise his discretion to exempt local authorities because in his definition, he has not defined local authorities as public institutions. As a result, this has partly caused the loss of finances in councils. They are remitting so much money to Workmen’s Compensation Fund (WCF), but at the end of the day, there is really nothing much they are getting from there.

Mr Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, I thank the Minister for Local Government and Housing for her elaborate ministerial statement. Following the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) guidelines she has laid on the Table, can she now be categorical? Are members of the CDF Committee who are community based and have to cover a distance of seventy kilometres to go to the councils, entitled to subsistence allowance when they attend these meetings? In Katete there is a different situation.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, we have issued a guideline in the guidelines that a percentage which is being deducted from the CDF will go towards administrative costs. In this case, administrative costs includes calling for CDF Committee meetings, transport and accommodation for those members that are coming from distant places and have to spend a night. It also includes food, but not allowances.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chilembo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, does the ministry owe Lusaka City Council any moneys in terms of rentals? If so, how much is it? When does it intend to settle that debt.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, that question has come several times here, especially from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata (Mr Lubinda) and I have answered it, but I would answer the new Member of Parliament that the ministry does not owe the council any money. It is not possible for the ministry to owe its own baby.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, service delivery in our councils is very cardinal. Our councils have been personalised because Chief Officers have over stayed and service delivery has suffered. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there is any consideration to transfer some of these Chief Officers to some other towns.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the issue of transfer of staff has been discussed at various fora and the ministry has consulted. We took a decision, as a ministry, after consulting the Local Government Association, LASIF, the Zambia United Local Authorities Workers’ Union (ZULAWU) and other institutions under Local Government and came to the conclusion that we needed transfers. To that effect, we have taken a proposal to the Office of the Attorney-General to ensure that a Statutory Instrument is issued to effect transfers for Local Government administration.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I have a follow-up question to Hon. Ngoma’s question. When you talk of 10 per cent for administration, now that money has been increased to K200 million from K60 million, is it still the same 10 per cent?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, as far as the guidelines are of now, it is still 10 per cent. However, it is a matter that I could take back to Cabinet for further consideration in future.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mschili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, councillors from Mungwi and Kabwe, the Deputy Mayor for Kabwe and the Chipata Mayor are about to be suspended. Can the Hon. Minister tell this House why she is dramatising the suspension, let alone the expulsion of our PF Mayor in Lusaka?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I heard about that story that an attempt by a lower organ of MMD Party suspended the Mayor of Chipata. I got this information today. However, my position does not change because of the name of the party. The position still stands. I have advised that parties should not use councils to settle political scores. This is why I have an issue as to whether we should continue to allow parties to suspend and expel councillors on account that they did something wrong politically. In terms of the Local Government Act, they are right and can be protected. The Local Government Association is studying this matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the effort the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing is making to harmonise the indebtedness in councils. I want to find out whether the hon. Minister is also looking at the issue of allowances for councillors. They are so low and they have been discussed in this House before. In Namwala, the transport cost is twice that of a day’s allowance for a councillor. Are you looking into this so that you can attract quality human beings to serve as councillors in local councils?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, in my view, to attract quality persons to stand as councillors does not depend on how much allowance to pay. We should just criticise these councils. We are looking at various allowances that are paid to the councillors, Chairperson and Mayors and I hope that by the time we come back, next sitting, we will have a good answer on that matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs J. Phiri (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, I just want to find out from the hon. Minister how often they audit the councils because we have seen the tendency of these councils to misappropriate project funds. How often do they audit the councils?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, according to the law, we are supposed to audit at least once every year for the normal annual audits. However, we can make spot audits if any issue arises or if we hear that somebody has misappropriated Constituency Development Fund (CDF) funds, the ministry has powers to appoint an auditor to verify and take appropriate action just there and then.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

QUESTIONS

DELAYED PROBATION PERIOD

389. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Education why confirmations of teachers on probation were delayed for more than a year when the stipulated probation period was only six months.

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, according to the governing regulations with regard to confirmation, teachers on probation are supposed to be confirmed after serving for a period of six months. Many teachers are confirmed within that period, but there are some instances where the confirmation process is delayed due to procedure to be followed from the school to the District Education Board Secretary, the Provincial Education Office to headquarters and eventually to the Teaching Service Commission. In some cases, the delays are caused by incomplete documentation to process the confirmation whereas, in some cases, it is the appraisal that may not be done on time by the supervising officer at school level.

However, my ministry is committed to minimise such delays so that teachers are confirmed within the stipulated time frame.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Education aware that this trend of not confirming teachers within six months as stipulated by the General Orders has an adverse effect on the serving teachers?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, we are very much aware that delays in the confirmation of teachers can result in de-motivation on their part and that is why I said that we are doing everything possible to minimise such delays.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

REHABILITATION WORKS AT ZNBC

390. Mr Kambwili (Roan) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services when rehabilitation works at the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Mr D. Phiri): Mr Speaker, rehabilitation of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) buildings and network systems is an on-going exercise which started in the late 1990s. Given the scale of buildings and network facilities ZNBC uses for its operations, a lot of financial resources are required to undertake the required facelift and re-equipping. In order to arrest the deterioration, a phased implementation approach has been adopted.

Mr Speaker, to keep modernising without compromising on the mission of delivering qualitative programmes on radio and television throughout the Republic of Zambia, the rehabilitation of ZNBC buildings has been restricted to studio and transmitter buildings, as well as staff houses.

Some of the major works include the following:

(i) The rehabilitation of the leaking roofs at Mass Media Complex by erecting false roofs over the concrete roofs. This work has not been completed but is being done in phases due to the huge areas involved. This work started three years ago and is continuing;

(ii) In 2000 and 2001 a number of transmitter buildings were rehabilitated and these include Kasama where a new radio transmitter building was constructed, Chipata where a new TV transmitter building at Kanjala Hill was erected as well as Mongu, Kapiri Mposhi, Mansa, Solwezi, Short Horn Transmitters in Lusaka West and Mpika stations which all got a face lift;

(iii) Most recently, the painting of the administration offices, radio studios, TV transmitter building and energy centre building at Mass Media Complex;

(iv) Rehabilitation of selected staff houses at Short Horn and Twin Palm transmitter stations where ZNBC has institutional houses. These houses were selected on the basis of being in a very bad state. This has been going on in the last four years; and

(v) Water Reticulation Project currently going on at the Mass Media Complex.

With regard to the networks, the emphasis is not on rehabilitation, but rather on replacement of network facilities with modern equipment to meet the current trends in broadcasting, such as introduction of digital based facilities.

Mr Speaker, key examples include the following:

(i) The digitalisation of six recording and three On Air Studios at Lusaka and one recording studio at Kitwe in 2005;

(ii) The replacement of the analogue editing suites with non-linear editing facilities at Lusaka and Kitwe in 2004, 2005 and 2006;

(iii) The replacement of the old problematic valve TV transmitters at Mpika, Solwezi, Mumbwa and Kasama with all solid state TV transmitters;

(iv) The replacement of the 10KW FM valve transmitters with 3KW all solid state FM transmitters at Lusaka and Kitwe in 2004/2005 respectively; and

(v) The rehabilitation of the water chiller studio cooling system in 2006.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that ZNBC Mass Media Complex has been leaking terribly in most of the corridors and the ceiling boards are coming off. Does it require waiting until they finish working on the studios to attend to the leakages?

Mr D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, I was clear on that issue. I did indicate that there is work going on with regard to repairing the leaking roofs. In fact, what is happening now is that we have put a cover on top of the concrete roof to stop that leakage.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation is not only the Mass Media Complex and as such I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when ZNBC in Kitwe last received a facelift and how many housing units for the workers have been worked on.

Mr D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, not too long ago, I undertook a tour of ZNBC Kitwe Studios and I must state that I was very happy with the condition in which ZNBC Kitwe is because rehabilitation works had just happened when I was there.

With regard to the number of staff houses that have been rehabilitated there, I am not in a position to state exactly as that is a new question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

__________

MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS 20, 21(1) AND 101

The Vice-President (Mr R. B. Banda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 20 and 21(1), if necessary, and Standing Order 101 be suspended to enable the House to complete all business on the Order Paper and all matters arising there from and that, on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.

Mr Speaker, I am moving this motion in order to conclude the Business of the House which commenced on 23rd January, 2007 and to allow hon. Members return to their constituencies and offices to implement the fiscal policies that are contained in this year’s budget.

Sir, the fact that we are concluding business in April instead of March indicates that this meeting of the House has been one of the longest and busiest.

Sir, as of today’s sitting, the House will have been sitting for a total of 43 days. During this period, 353 questions reached the Order Paper and were ably answered by Cabinet Ministers and their Deputies. In addition, nine Government Bills were presented and considered by the House. The House also considered three Private Members’ Motions, two subjects for debate on the Adjournment Motion and one motion to adopt a report of a Select Committee.

Furthermore, a total of thirty-eight annual reports from Government and quasi-Government departments were tabled and seventeen ministerial statements explaining Government policies and clarifying issues raised by hon. Members were also made during this meeting.

Mr Speaker, in addition to the business I have outlined above, the House, by the end of today, will have considered and voted for the monies required for serving all developmental projects in the country. To hon. Members, I say this is a job well done.

Mr Speaker, this meeting of the House will best be remembered as a learning phase, particularly for all the new hon. Members and for me in my capacity as Leader of Government Business in the House. We had to grapple with the challenge of adjusting to a changing parliamentary environment and adapting to the various procedures relating to the budget process, questions, motions, Bills and procedures relating to parliamentary etiquette. It is gratifying to note that we have gone through this process with diligence and enthusiasm. However, the learning process has not been easy and, on some occasions, we had to agree to disagree. This is how it should be in a parliamentary democracy.

Mr Speaker, when we met to consider this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure, I did not expect an easy time with our colleagues in the Opposition. However, from the smooth flow of the debates and consideration of the Votes of Expenditure, one can clearly see the strong bonds our multi-party democracy has developed and I am delighted to work with such a team in the Opposition, which is very resourceful and constructive.

Mr Speaker, the manner in which business was conducted in this House is a clear testimony of our determination, as a House, to resuscitate the economy regardless of our political differences.

Mr Speaker, time has now come for hon. Members to go back to their constituencies and reflect on the challenges that have been brought to bear by the worst floods in living memory.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: As hon. Members are aware, a total of forty-one districts have been adversely affected by the floods, making it difficult for the Government to distribute relief food, drugs and other supplies. A number of our roads have become impassable with bridges being washed away, while a number of houses have been destroyed by the heavy rains. As a result, many Zambians have been displaced and rendered homeless. It is, therefore, important that hon. Members have a break in order to assess the situation and, thereafter, assist the Government with the task of working out modalities for resolving these problems.

As I conclude, Mr Speaker, I would like to express my gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, Madam Deputy Speaker and the Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the whole House for the efficient and impartial manner in which you handled the business of the House. I also commend the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the excellent service they have continued to render to the House.

Let me equally take this opportunity to express my personal gratitude to Cabinet Ministers, my officers in the Office of the Vice-President and other Government ministries for the efficient manner and guidance they have rendered to me since I took office a few months ago.

To you all, I say keep it up.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Before I say any further debate, I just wish to remind the House that the motion is straightforward as it is to enable you to resolve in such a way that you complete all the matters you see on the Order Paper, not to re-open cross country debate which you have done already.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, I will be brief knowing that there is a lot of work to be done this evening.

Sir, this has been a very productive session and we look forward to coming back and I hope that we will see His Honour the Vice-President more often on Friday in the House so that we can continue with the questions to him.

Sir, I said it has been productive. The people of Zambia are looking forward to a better deal from its resources. We, today, later this evening, will finalise two important Bills, the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2007 and Mines and Minerals (Amendment) Bill, 2007. Now, we have empowered the Government to go out there and catch something - in the language of fishermen. We have given fishing nets and a boat and the necessary support to our Government through the hon. Ministers to go out there and ensure that they catch something for the family - the family being Zambia. It will not do when we come back somewhere in July or August to be told that nothing has been achieved. That will not be acceptable for the people of Zambia and certainly not on this side. So, I would like, as we go, we are very hopeful, we urge the Government to do all they can to ensure that there is something for the people of Zambia to look forward to.

Sir, the hon. Ministers has belaboured the issue of ZANACO. We will wait and see. Obviously, we are not very happy that it has gone. We will wait and see what is going to be happening. Remember, the people of Zambia were opposed, this House was opposed to the sale of ZANACO, and we are watching.

Mr Mtonga: Zoona!

Dr Machungwa: So, whoever is working with ‘Robber Bank’, let them make sure that the interest of Zambian people is prime.

Sir, one issue that has been coming before this House before through Presidential speeches and assurances, is the issue of the Pedicle Road. I am disappointed that in the budget for the Ministry of Works and Supply and under the National Roads Agency, there is nothing. One would have hoped that we should have put in something to put into effect the various statements and assurances made by His Excellency the President in this very Chamber on more than two or three occasions, and elsewhere in the country, that work would start on the Pedicle Road. We are still watching. We hope that work on the Chembe Bridge will be expedited now that the rains are finishing and we hope that, soon after, work on the Pedicle Road will begin.

Sir, there is one issue that I want to mention. This is the issue of investigations and accidents. Recently, we have had some misfortune where a lot of our transporters have been involved in accidents. The Ministry of Communications and Transport, in some cases, has reacted by canceling or suspending licences of those companies who are involved. Whereas I think it is important to ensure safety, it is also necessary that due processes and investigations are fully followed before action like this is taken. In the case of the most recent accident involving CR Carriers Bus Services, this is a company that has a highest number of buses in the country. Statistically, even when we had United Bus Company of Zambia (UBZ), they used to have quite a number of accidents considering the fact that they had more vehicles around the country.

Therefore, if an accident happens, it does not augur well to suspend or cancel licences. It is important that we study what has caused the accident and take necessary measures to stop that, but if we begin acting against our own companies, then it is becoming extremely difficult. We know that accidents have happened elsewhere like, for example, the BGRIM accident in Chambishi. Recently there was the pollution of the Kafue River by Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). These are big and powerful companies, and yet, we did not stop them from operating. The Government has to be fair to our own companies instead of treating them like non-citizens or aliens from somewhere while treating the foreign investors as people who cannot make a mistake. We cannot go on like that.

Finally, I would like to urge His Honour the Vice-President to push his officers, especially in the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit because certain parts of this country have a lot of problems with regard to the drought and floods. My area, as I indicated, is one that has been so greatly affected and I know that His Honour the Vice-President will do something about it. However, I want him to know that the chiefs and the people there are expectant. I would like to report to them favourably that he is doing well. Otherwise, I will be a very sad person if, in the next two to three weeks, nothing happens. Then it will be very difficult for me to say that this Government is at least doing something. Otherwise, I will go and say that they are not doing anything. You know what that means and when people there say that you are not doing anything for them, it will be very difficult for the MMD.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, I rise to support this motion. In so doing, allow me, looking back, to thank your team, the Clerk and management of the National Assembly for conducting the affairs of this first sitting of the Tenth National Assembly in a most dignified manner.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: Sir, I would like to thank you for chairing all matters that came under our deliberations in so just and faithful a manner and thereby promoting God’s honour and glory.

Mr Speaker, I also want to sincerely thank the new Vice-President, Hon. Rupiah Banda and President Mwanawasa for appointing him because in the first few months that he has been office, he has proved to be cool, calm, composed and collected.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: There has been no acrimony in this House and through his conduct, this nation has benefited a lot. Opposition and Ruling Party hon. Members of Parliament have been treated equally. It is true that wise men come from the East.

Hon. Members from East Province: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: Mr Speaker, we are going to our constituencies to inspect and provide checks and balances on the projects that are going on. I am leaving this place a very happy man.

On that score, I remember that four or five weeks ago, all hon. Members of Parliament received a letter from the President challenging Permanent Secretaries and other technocrats in Government to co-operate with hon. Members of Parliament. Further, Permanent Secretaries were instructed to release information about development to all hon. Members of Parliament. To me, despite not being a fan of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy, I support the President on that score.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: With such attitude, this country can see unprecedented development. In the past, we had lagged behind because information about development and release of money was shrouded in secrecy. How can hon. Members provide checks and balances if they lack information? All I can say is to thank the President on that.

Mr Speaker, in the same period, there was another letter from the Office of the Vice-President, Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit, written to all District Commissioners. It was a letter or a challenge to all districts in this country that they should work in harmony with hon. Members to develop this country.

Sir, I put it before you that a good number of District Commissioners have been a hindrance as far as development is concerned. They have chosen to fight against hon. Members of Parliament. This is so because some of them were appointed despite losing the race to Manda Hill. Therefore, this letter could not have come at a better time than this. Keep it up your Honour, the Vice-President.

Mr Speaker, however, as we are going to our constituencies, there is one fundamental issue which I believe every Member of Parliament is going to be faced with. This issue is that despite the MMD Government having made some strides here and there, the issue of the Constitution will face the hon. Members of Parliament as they go to their constituencies. Therefore, it is a challenge on the part of the Government that as the House adjourns today or tomorrow, they should look at this issue because the Constitution is not just about accepting a constituent assembly, but it is about correcting the entire governance of this nation. It is about bread and butter, education, health, water and everything you need to move Zambia forward. The adamancy and arrogance from the Government is not good because the Government is going against the majority or the wishes of the majority of the Zambian people. The people of Zambia do not need to beg the MMD to give them a new Constitution. The people have a right to demand for a just and new Constitution immediately.

Sir, the MMD and President Mwanawasa should not behave as though they hold the monopoly of wisdom and knowledge on this matter just like civil society and the Opposition should not appear to have the monopoly of wisdom. What we need is the Government to stop procrastinations. We need a new Constitution soon.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I support that we adjourn after completing business on the Order Paper today.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Shakafuswa): Mr Speaker, this is a straightforward motion, which I am surprised, is getting the attention of a lot of us. I would like to add a few words to thank you, Mr Speaker and the staff of the National Assembly for the manner in which you have run business in this sitting. I would like to thank His Honour the Vice-President and the people behind and besides him for the way in which they have responded to the concerns which have been raised by our friends on your left. It has really been a challenge. It is started with sizing each other up, but as we moved on, we settled down. Everyone realised that we had an onus and only had one country, which we want to move forward.

Sir, the bottom line is what is actually facing Africa. I just came from a meeting of all the Ministers of Finance, and Economic Development for Africa at which we looked at the plight of Africa. We discovered that we are facing a few challenges except for our people who struck gold which is gold and which is also black. They have managed to grow their economies at a growth rate which has translated into goods and services to their people.

In the case of Zambia, Mr Speaker, I know it is a challenge because we have to look at actually carrying our shoes from the cloth which we have got. Yes, consultations have come up on how we can actually exploit ways to make resources available to our people, but I would say from the Government and Ministry of Finance and National Planning side that those are challenges which we will put on the ground and we will say we mean well because the bottom line is about looking at all these challenges and not just being popular with our people. That is why we do not want to cheat our people. We want to tell the people that to be a successful businessman, you have to forego something so that you invest and be able to feed yourself from that investment. In Zambia, we can actually go one route and spend on consumption. However, the bottom line is that when we go flat, the Government will work on a programme where we can actually work with the Zambian people.

We have said that the macro-economic stability which we have and the fiscal stability we have managed to achieve have to be translated into results. The intention is to change the behaviour of all the Zambians. Zambians are very proud and bring down institutions. The root thing is to learn from what has happened with ZANACO. People are talking about ZANACO, but we forget that when we borrow, we do not pay back. This is the problem ZANACO has. A lot of us have also borrowed from the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ). Now, let us change the culture. Let us have an entrepreneurship attitude. Who is going to borrow and make sure that when you borrow money, you will develop for all the people? We have been saying that the Government should create employment, but where is the private sector? The thing is that we must change the attitude because, as a Government, we are saying that the private sector is the vehicle now which is going to lead this country. Now, it has to start with us here whereby when we do businesses, let us not become rich overnight. Let us go back and do our businesses properly. If each one of us goes back and employs ten people and pays them well, that will be employment creation. The businessmen should not employ people on a casual basis. People stand here and talk and these are the same people who have buses, but they forget that the bus drivers they have employed are on casual employment. It has to start from a very small point of view.

Mr Speaker, yes, I know people will talk about the concerns which our nation faces, but let us face facts. We have to broaden the tax base and broadening the tax base is not just taxation of existing businesses , but it is the creation of new businesses which are going to enable the Government to have space where they can tax from.

Mr Speaker, the concerns from our people about the Constitution have been heard and they are straightforward. It is just that Zambians enjoy hiding from the finger. The Government would enjoy enacting the Constitution even tomorrow. Very much so. However, Zambians are not addressing just one question.

Mr Speaker, there is Article 79 which was added to the Constitution at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross meeting. How do we go about it? People have suggested that the only way we can go around it is by using the voters’ roll and this is the Referendum Act where somebody can dispute the outcome of the referendum.

Mr Tetamashimba: Yes.

Mr Shakafuswa: Someone will come and say that this was not representative because I am eighteen and above and eligible to vote, but I was not allowed to vote because of this and that and because you used the voters’ register at that particular time when you went for elections, I was 17 years 11 months. However, at the time when this was done, I was eligible. This is the question which we should ask ourselves as we go back to our constituencies and address. Some of you are determined to address Article 79 and, thereafter, what possible cases would come? We can have a referendum today. Tomorrow, someone will petition the referendum. What answers do we have?

Yes, we want, but a lot of money is needed to enact the Constitution. From the Ministry of Finance and National Planning’s point of view, I am going to ask. If you enact a Constitution which is going to have a road map, the Government will respond and the response is that we should not meander.

On Article 79, unless you say since we have a census in 2010, we can do with a part which is receipted to that which is Article 3. We can do with it later on and then we amend other issues. However, if we are supposed to open that, how do we go about it? I know those are the questions you are meandering on. The people want a good Constitution. I do not know which better Constitution in the country today people have benefited from because the Constitution is a complex issue.

There are people who wanted a change in the Constitution because they wanted a short cut of having Mwanawasa out of office. On the 50 per cent plus 1 which people are agitating for, no political party can get 50 per cent plus 1. It is just a way of speculating where people are thinking they can have a second chance. This is the truth, but we are saying let us have a Constitution which is going to stand the test of time. Let us not have a short cut, through the Constitution, to get into power. I think that is wrong. We should not just look at what short cuts we can have to have the power. If we are going to have a Constitution which is going to stand the test of time, let us have a Constitution without other thoughts behind us which will prejudice the harmony of the Constitution.

Yes, we know you cannot win the first round, but there is also the implication, of course, of running a second round. For a nation like Zambia, on its knees, you have to look at all those implications. I know other people are not happy to see a person like Shakafuswa flying a flag. You have to work hard to fly a flag and I am not saying…

Laughter.

Mr Shakafuswa: …this because I enjoy it, but the bottom line is that you should not look at who is in the office.

Mr Tetamashimba: Yes.

Mr Shakafuswa: The bottom line is, what are we doing at the moment to make the lives of the people of Zambia affordable? What are we doing collectively because, surely it is not for you to come into power because, maybe, you will perform less than the way I am performing? However, we have the mandate as we stand here that we need to wait for the Constitution. We have the mandate to deliver to the people of Zambia. As we go back to our constituencies, we should ask ourselves if we are able to deliver because we can talk about politics, but the bottom line is that Zambians are the ones suffering.

Yes, it may be enshrined in a good Constitution that everyone has the right to education. However, we will have to make resources available for it to be executed. What we should do as we go back is that instead of enjoying the fruits of our businesses, eating all our profits, let us invest our profits so that we also grow as businessmen and help our people and borrow more money from which the Government can get tax from and give the services to the people of Zambia. However, we cannot fail to say the truth on this matter from this side. We are open to discussions and, as I have always said, for those hon. Members who mean well, engage yourselves outside Parliament. If you think you have solutions, come to our offices because we are not running this Government on behalf of the MMD, but on behalf of the Zambians who gave us the mandate. You are also part of the Zambians and you should also add something which will make our Zambia become a better Zambia. If you feel fighting and pulling each other is the order of the day, you are mistaken. Zambia will always be our Zambia and you will never find second class citizenship elsewhere because we are Zambians.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Masiye (Mufulira): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have got very little to say this evening because I understand that sometimes in a multitude of words, you can err.

Mr Speaker, it is comforting to note that His Honour the Vice-President acknowledged that he did not expect an easy time in this particular session since it was the beginning and there were so many new hon. Members. It is comforting to note that there are people who appreciate such things, but at the same time, being a novice does not mean that people do not develop and being a novice does not mean that people do not have qualities and that they are not knowledgeable.

People have a base and this is the foundation that they build on. It is very cardinal that our colleagues on the right recognise this because respect is not one way but mutual. When there is an input from the Opposition, it should not be deemed as a frustration to the Executive. They should appreciate that most of the things that we bring up in the House are not meant to frustrate them. Our interest is one - the people of Zambia. As the hon. Deputy Minister has just said, there is only one Zambia and there are no second class citizens. I agree with him and there is only one Parliament and no second class hon. Members of Parliament. We are all elected. It is very important that we appreciate this. If we, on both sides, can appreciate our roles, there will be very little conflict.

Mr Speaker, I am made to express these sentiments going by the fury that was expressed by our hon. Colleagues on the right on the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill which was considered on 28th March, 2007. It is very unfortunate that people stormed out of the House after we went to a vote. We are talking of democracy. We are representing the people of Zambia and it is my opinion that if one side seems to win, it is not the side that is benefiting but the people of Zambia. As such, that should be respected.

Mr Speaker, a budget remains a proposed plan until it is approved. I want to believe that our learned colleagues who prepare the budget do understand the Prudence Concept. I come from an accounting background and I believe in their efficiency and accounting as they are managing the accounts of the country. They should understand that going by the Prudence Concept, provision should be made for losses as soon as they are foreseen. Amendments are foreseen. His Honour the Vice-President conceded when he said, “Amendments were expected. We did not expect an easy time,” meaning, when a budget comes forth, amendments should be expected. They should be provided for and this should come in form of contingency plans. Instead of becoming emotional, furious and issuing threats, a good plan must have facets. It must have a facet of saying, “what if this does not work, which way do we take?” In case something falls out, like this particular amendment did, what do we do, where does the Government get money from? In that way a provision is made. To me that is a good plan.

This does not mean that I am insulting the opinion of the people on the other side. All I am saying is, please try to understand and appreciate that we mean well. As I said in the beginning, we have our different roles and it is important to acknowledge the different roles that we play. That amendment has been appreciated by some people and we did not expect the people on the right to appreciate it because it gave them extra homework, but that is what we came here for; to work, look at alternatives and find the money somewhere. If they appear to be willing to get proposals from this end, the hon. Deputy Minister just said, ‘come to our office and give us ideas.’ It is my hope that when these ideas are given to them, when people take courage and go to their offices, they are not go to be thrown out just because they are coming from the opposition.

Going by the attitude in the House, what guarantee are we given that when we go to their offices they will acknowledge us? This does not mean that we are not welcome to these offices. It is something else to say, ‘you are welcome,’ but what matters most is the action taken afterwards. There are so many hon. Members here, who are mourning about the distribution of relief in areas affected by floods and you will note that most of the hon. Members on the right were assisted. This does not mean that the hon. Members on the left did not lobby for assistance. They did and were assured but action speaks louder than words. We have one Zambia, there are no second class citizens or hon. Members of Parliament and it is, therefore, my sincere hope that our colleagues on the right should learn to co-exist because it is cardinal. With these words, I beg to submit that I support the motion to adjourn sine die.

Thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): I will not be on the Floor for a long time. I just want to say that in every sitting of Parliament, there is no day that is as good as today when we have to start thinking seriously about our constituencies. We have been missing from our constituencies for a long time and we are taking home the budget to fully explain what will happen in Zambia, as a country. There is nothing better than explaining the budget to the constituencies.

Mr Speaker, the reason I have stood up is that in this term of office for this Government, I see a very serious Cabinet consisting of the men and women that have been appointed to these positions. I would like to assure the country that this is the time that this Government has started working and people should expect to see most of there needs satisfied. What we really need to see is that we work together with everyone else, especially the people that are not found in this House. The people that are found in this House are able to discuss and agree but it is the people who are not here that need to understand what we really need to do. It is for this reason that we are being given an opportunity to interact with the rest of the people in the country.

I would like to appeal to the nation that this Government means well and we are going to perform as expected.

I thank you, Sir.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to say a few more words after the hon. Members who have spoken. I would like to begin by reminding ourselves of what you, Sir, advised us at the very beginning. We have debated very well in this House and many points have been brought out and there is no need to repeat them tonight. Hon. Machungwa, I thank you so much and I want to repeat what I said yesterday that you are a very good hon. Member of Parliament, who at all times tenaciously represents his people. Even you when you have got the answer you repeat it so that they know that you were up to the last bell in Parliament. I can assure you that the Government is listening. As regards to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), you are free to come to the office. On Tuesday, you must go there and get what you need as you have already agreed with the DMMU. I would say the same thing to many hon. Members who have raised the issue of relief. Hon. Ngoma thanks for the compliments. I do not think the Bembas agree with you when you say the wise men come from the East but when they meet our women, they accept that temporally.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Thank you for the support. I am just worried about the threat that you gave to this House that we might finish the business by tomorrow. I hope you did not mean it. I see that many hon. Members are tired and ready to go back to their constituencies early tomorrow morning. This means that we must finish the business as soon as possible. I thank you all once again. Hon. Shakafuswa, with his robust debate, is such that when he stands up, the Opposition start wondering whether he is going to attack from the left or the right.

I see that, like Rooney, the football player from Manchester United, you will agree with me that he is maturing and he is much more accommodating to the Opposition. I heard many of you say, “Hear, hear,” when he said we have only one Zambia.

I would like to wind up by saying that the Government has heard all the points that the hon. Members have made this evening and during the general debates which have taken place during these three months when we have been here together and during the comments on the individual items of the Budget.

The Government will definitely take into account all those concerns which have been expressed here. As the Speaker has advised already, we need to go forward. Now that we have a Budget, we have a duty to go back quickly to our constituencies to explain the Budget. We have to hold hands with the Government and ensure that the money which has been allocated for development is used exactly for that.

I wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, for all the guidance that you have given us from the beginning up to now and I am sure that hon. Members are going back satisfied that they have been given equal chance to articulate the concerns of their constituencies.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to.

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

______

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2005), BILL

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, following the approval of the Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2005 by this House that provided extra spending for a number of institutions for the financial year which ended on 31 December 2005, I was obliged to return to this House with necessary legislation to give effect to the resolution of the House.

The Bill before the House therefore, is intended to normalise the Supplementary Estimates for that year and this amounts to K453, 584,031, 243.

Sir, as hon. Members may be aware, the Supplementary Estimates were thoroughly debated at the time when they were presented before this House and I do not expect it to attract a lengthy debate.

I seek the support of this House.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene (Itezhi tezhi): Mr Speaker, your Committee were mandated to consider the Supplementary Appropriation (2005), Bill in line with article 117(4) of the Constitution of Zambia and their terms of reference were as set out at Standing Order No. 156.

Allow me, Sir, to brief the House on the proceedings, findings and recommendations of your Committee. In considering the Bill, your Committee requested controlling officers whose ministries and institutions had applied for and received supplementary provisions during the financial year 31st December, 2005 to provide explanatory memoranda as regards what necessitated the expenditures and to re-confirm the amounts quoted in the Bill.

Sir, your Committee also considered the legal ramifications of the Bill referred to them. In this regard your Committee noted that the object of this Bill was to confirm the expenditure, from the General Revenues of the Republic, of money spent for the services of the Republic during the financial year ended 31st December, 2005 in excess of the money appropriated for the services of the Republic by Appropriation Act No. 5 of 2005.

The amount spent as supplementary expenditure in the financial year ending 31st December, 2005 was a total amount of the K453,584,031,243.

Mr Speaker, your Committee further observed that the constitutional duty of the National Assembly in relation to the Bill is to confirm the Supplementary Appropriation as the figure was already presented to and approved by the National Assembly. Further, the Zambian Constitution is silent on the maximum amounts that can be spent under the Supplementary Budget.

Mr Speaker, in its simplest meaning, supplementary expenditure is additional funding provided to cover legally unavoidable expenditure overruns beyond the originally voted allocations in the Budget.

Mr Speaker, it is well known that in most, if not all, Commonwealth countries Parliament must approve the Budget and enact the Appropriation Bills authorising the Executive Branch of the Government to incur expenditures. Once the Appropriation Bill is in force, there is usually the mistaken belief that the Government obtains authority to execute the Budget without interference from the Legislature.

However, as is common knowledge, Parliament has the power to monitor the manner in which the Executive implements Budget decisions. Through its oversight function, Parliament must approve any changes to the voted Budget limits on all heads and this is done through the Supplementary Appropriation Bill.

Mr Speaker, supplementary expenditure has been a permanent feature of the Budget process in Zambia and instances of such expenditure abound. This illustrates the problem of the large supplementary spending that characterises public expenditure management and Budget execution in Zambia.

Since the supplementary expenditures occur before Parliament’s approval, such appropriation undermines Parliament’s role in the Budget process. In effect, they dilute the legal authority of Parliament in the performance of its oversight function over the Executive’s Budget implementation activities and actual Budget outrun significantly deviates from the original estimates. Ideally, therefore, the Bill should be presented before the actual spending takes place.

Mr Speaker, as I have stated above, in Zambia, Supplementary expenditure is recognised in the Constitution. Article 117(4) allows the Executive to adjust the appropriation Act as it sees fit as long as the report in the form of a Supplementary Estimate is tabled before the National Assembly within the prescribed period.

Specially, the hon. Minister responsible for Finance and National Planning has up to fifteen months after the end of the fiscal year to table before the National Assembly a Supplementary Appropriation Bill in relation to that year.

Thus, the Bill under consideration is in respect of the Supplementary spending over and above the expenditure limits set under the Appropriation Act for the 2005 Budget. This Bill has, therefore, been laid before the House in accordance with Article 117(4) (b) of the Constitution of Zambia. Once passed, the Supplementary Appropriation (2005) Bill will confirm the approval by Parliament of the supplementary expenditure incurred in that financial year. The passing of this Bill by the House would, accordingly, fulfill the Constitutional requirements afore stated.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, before we broke for tea, I was saying that this Bill has, therefore, been laid before the House in accordance with Article 117 (4) (B) of the Constitution of Zambia. Once passed, the Supplementary Appropriation 2005 Act will confirm the approval by Parliament of the supplementary expenditure incurred in the financial year. The passing of this Bill by the House would, accordingly, fulfil the constitutional requirements aforestated.

Mr Speaker, in the course of their work your Committee noted some matters which caused them serious concern. Some of these I now highlight for the benefit of the hon. Members of this august House.

(a) Supplementary Expenditure has been a major weakness in Zambia’s Public Expenditure Management System. This is a symptom of problems if budget preparation and execution, including particularly poor budget management as relates to cash rationing under the Cash Budget System that does not conform to the budget approved by Parliament;

(b) The problem of rampant supplementary spending also has roots in the ambiguities and inconsistencies in the legal framework itself. The constitutional provisions for supplementary spending are weak. Thus, Article 117 (4) seems to give the Executive a free hand to change the Appropriation Act by spending money prior to Parliament’s approval.

(c) Because of the weakness of the legal framework, supplementary expenditure occurs before Parliament’s approval. This undermines democratic accountability.

(d) Laxity in the legal framework has led to a situation where supplementary appropriations are often so large that they surpass the original Budget Estimates. In fact, your Committee are deeply concerned that on a number of sub-heads the percentages of supplementary provisions during the financial year in question were more than 100 per cent of the original estimates. The Supplementary Appropriation Act for 2005 has some clear examples of this. The National Registration Department of the Ministry of Home Affairs was originally allocated K12.7 billion in 2005. The supplementary appropriation amounted to K15 billion or 118 per cent above what was originally approved by Parliament. In the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the original budget allocation for the Political Affairs Department was K1.5 billion in 2005. The supplementary appropriation was K2.1 billion which was 140 per cent over and above the original approved estimates.

In the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, Parliament had approved K313.3 billion for Human Resource and Administration; supplementary expenditure in 2005 was K312.7 billion, a level of expenditure equal to 100 per cent over and above that originally approved by Parliament.

This situation is indicative of a very serious problem in the planning system, and renders the entire budgeting process irrelevant. While your Committee recognise that it is possible to have such large disparities, this should only be under very special circumstances, which are unforeseen at the time of budgeting. Your committee are of the strong view that the spirit of the Constitution in providing for the supplementary budget is not for it to derogate from the powers of Parliament to deliberate on and approve all expenditure of public funds.

(e) The need for supplementary funding in the financial year ended 31st December, 2005 arose largely due to the Civil Service salary increment and generally inadequate provisions in the original estimates.

(f) The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has a peculiar problem in that part of the ministry’s approved appropriation is lost through exchange losses as a result of the fluctuations in the exchange rates between the time of the budgeting and the time of remitting the fund to the missions abroad. Losses are also experienced due to the fact that funds are remitted to missions based in Europe in US Dollars, but has to be converted and spent in Euros and Pound. Your Committee also wish to express serious concern over the benefits, if any, being derived by the countries from the operations of some of the missions abroad. They strongly feel that the high costs involved in running and maintaining these missions can only be justifiable if their operations are relevant to the country’s development agenda.

(g) Except in very few cases (such as the exceptional situation of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs cited above) most of the activities funded through the supplementary budget are routine and, therefore, anticipated. These included costs associated with attending meetings, rentals, electricity and water bill, purchase of motor vehicles, office furniture, transport management, office administration, participation in World Aids Day including routine HIV/AIDS awareness activities, independence and labour day activities, transportation of diplomats , recalls as well as deployments, staff welfare and recreation, routine staff training, gratuities, repatriations, long tern bonuses and general administration or operational costs.

(h) Ministries and other spending agencies are often compelled to resort to supplementary provisions because ceilings given by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning are so low that the originally approved budget cannot meet the day-to-day operational costs of running the ministries and institutions.

(i) Your Committee are alarmed at the amounts being paid by Government ministries and departments as bank charges. They note that the amounts paid as bank charges are so high that they could, in some cases, actually be used to implement developmental projects in full. This is caused by over-reliance by the Government on the commercial banking system for almost all banking services.

(j) Your Committee note with concern that a number of controlling officers do not appear to have an in-depth understanding and appreciation of the financial regulations. As a result, their interaction with your Committee was unsatisfactory, to say the least. Your Committee feel that in these circumstances, competence in the management of public finances is severely compromised.

Your Committee, therefore, recommend as follows:

(a) As part of the programme for the reform of public expenditure management, the system of supplementary appropriations needs to be improved in the interest of promoting accountability for public finances and to enhance the oversight role of Parliament in the budget process. The weaknesses of the system are symptoms of poor budget management, which requires strengthening.

The legal framework should be strengthened so that Supplementary Estimates must have the approval of Parliament before any spending by line ministries occurs. The Parliamentary Committee System could be used at times when the National Assembly is in recess. This will require a constitutional amendment. In the same vein, the period of time within which a Supplementary Appropriation Bill must be submitted should be significantly reduced and the Constitution should be amended to set a limit on the amount that the Executive may incur as Supplementary Expenditure in any one financial year. The limit could be set between 5 and 10 per cent of the National Budgetary Expenditure Appropriated by Parliament in any given financial year. This will prevent ministries and other spending agencies from relying on supplementary appropriations, thereby reducing such expenditure and restricting its use to exceptional circumstances.

(b) The Contingency Fund administered by the hon. Minister responsible for Finance and National Planning should be comprehensively redefined to be the voted appropriation for all emergency expenditures.

(c) The Ministry of Finance and National Planning should, henceforth, set more realistic ceilings, through a consultative process with the various actors, during the pre-budget stage.

(d) The problems highlighted above with regard to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should be resolved expeditiously. Your Committee also wish to advise that a comprehensive review of the benefits being delivered by the country from all Missions Abroad be undertaken as a matter of urgency and steps be taken to maintain only those missions whose cost benefit analysis turns out positive. In this regard, the possibility of maintaining a smaller number of missions and ensuring that they operate more efficiently and cost effectively while providing multifarious benefits of the nation should be explored.

(e) In future, supplementary provisions should not be used to finance routine and anticipated activities, many of which are outlined above.

(f) The Government should seriously and urgently consider cutting down on the use of commercial banking services and rely more on the Bank of Zambia so that the Central Bank can, once again, play its right role as a banker to the Government.

(g) The Government must ensure that all officers who are mandated to manage public resources, particularly controlling officers, are appropriately qualified and oriented to the relevant provisions of the law, the financial regulations and any other relevant procedures and regulations at all times.

Mr Speaker, let me end by emphasising that these issues call for urgent consideration. The situation as it stands now lends the system to abuse with the attendant problems of the breakdown of financial discipline, waste in the utilisation of public resources, poor service delivery by the public service, corruption and defalcation of public money. Reform is a continuous process and constitutional amendments should also be considered in the same way. 

Mr Speaker, these actions are essential in ensuring that the nation follows the appropriate direction in its development effort. In a nutshell, your Committee strongly recommend that the systematic planning and projection of the activities is necessary to avoid a huge supplementary Budget. They, however, note that as the constitution is the Supreme Law of Zambia, the inadequacies noted in relation to the current arrangements with regard to the Supplementary Budget may only be comprehensively and competently tackled during the Constitution review process.

Mr Speaker, allow me to pay tribute to all the members serving on your Committee for their dedication and hard work. I also wish, on behalf of your Committee, to thank all the witnesses who tendered both oral and written submissions. They, further, thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording them an opportunity to consider this Bill. In addition, I wish to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for their unfailing assistance and services to your Committee throughout the deliberations.

Sir, lastly, your Committee wish to note and convey their appreciation for the role played by the consultant to the National Assembly in assisting with the analysis of the 2007 Budget and consideration of the Bill.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I am a member of the Estimates Committee and therefore, I have very little to add to the comprehensive report of the Chairman. I would like to say that we do appreciate the fact that the volume of Supplementary Estimates has been reducing over the years. We, therefore, appreciate and congratulate the hon. Minister for that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: However, those of us who own birds say that there is never a limit to how much tightening up you need to do to get things perfect. There were good and bad reasons for a Supplementary Estimates. The good and unavoidable reasons are that unexpected things may happen. Good things or bad things may happen. There may be a drought, floods or donors coming belatedly with some programme to boost education. All this has to change. The original estimates have to be changed. There are other good reasons that are slightly more settled. For example, one can hardly put in the budget at the beginning of the year, an estimate for expected wage increases in the Civil Service because this is tipping your hand and showing your cards to the people you are about to sit down and play cards with. One will always expect wage increases to be somewhat hidden.

Mr Speaker, there are also bad reasons. This includes indiscipline, bad budgeting and forgetting to put things correctly. As the Chairman mentioned, there is an issue of bad planning and poor professionalism in some quarters. We were very pleased with our interaction with some of the spenders. Some of them really did not even know what Schedule ‘C’ was or how to, sort of, calculate it. It actually shows the supplementary expenditures in a systematic way approved by this Government.

Sir, there are other bad reasons for supplementary spending. One is to try and hide, in the original estimates, anticipated levels of spending from organisations like the International Monetary Fund (IMF) who might be trying to hold your nose to a line. In the past, if we had cases, we had evidence left by witnesses. When we asked them if they did not realise that the ceiling put on this item by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning was far too long, they said, they did and they spoke to them. They further said that they should not worry and that they should go back towards the end of the year and they would give them a supplementary.

They even said that they were just trying to keep that out of public view. That is not an acceptable reason for incurring supplementaries deliberately - hiding anticipated expenditures from this House. It is a very serious matter. Is the IMF fooled, anyway? We may see a sudden cut in spending in one of the favourite ministries like the Ministry of Defence. Are they then going to be impressed when they see, six months later, the expecting Supplementary Expenditure being made? Let us be honest and be straightforward with ourselves. Let this House approve the best possible estimates of what is going to be needed ahead. This is one final thing I could clear up.

Mr Speaker, the question of wise men coming from the East has been mentioned several times in this House over this session. I just wanted to start with the Minister of Health and end with His Honour the Vice-President. I want to clear a matter of Biblical Scholarship. If His Honour the Vice-President will check a proper Bible, like the Old King James Authorised Version, not these modern mistranslations, he will discover that wise men came from all directions. It is just that the ones coming from the East got lost …

Laughter

Dr Scott…and required a satellite navigation system to be supplied by the Almighty, which he did in form of the famous ‘nyenyezi’, which he told them to follow.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Magande: Thank you, Sir for giving me the opportunity to wind up the debate on this very important Bill before the House. The report of your Committee is quite strong on some issues. However, I would like to say that I am not scared of what your Committee have written because one of their sentences here is talking about amending the Constitution. In fact, the last sentence under recommendations says the inadequacies noted in relation to current arrangements with regard to Supplementary Budget will only be comprehensively and competently tackled during the Constitution Review Process. I would like to say that we have discussed this issue of what items go into the Constitution in terms of financial management and we have come to this House and agreed that some of these have to be amended so that we are up o date with what is happening elsewhere.

Mr Speaker, let me say that I do not agree that there are rampant Supplementary Estimates. My judgement is that we had 49 Heads of spending in the Yellow Book and the Supplementary Estimates that we are presenting only had 24 Heads that actually had Supplementaries. Now, 24 out of 49 is just about 50 per cent. You cannot use the adjective ‘rampant’. It is not the whole Government system where we are providing for Supplementaries.

I would also like to appreciate the comment on the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Only last week, I took time to explain the figures under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. In this respect, the 300 million kwacha which is shown must have been payment for salaries for the whole Civil Service and we do it at the ministry. Therefore, it was not actually to compare the expenditure by the ministry for its own activities against the whole Government system. That comparison is obviously not correct.

Mr Speaker. I am at a loss when we were being advised to rely on the Bank of Zambia for our banking systems instead of the commercial banks. We have workers in Livingstone, Kasama and Chipata that have to be paid. We do not have branches of the Bank of Zambia in these areas. Therefore, what we do is actually transmit this money to the commercial banks’ branches in those towns so that our officers get paid It would be obviously quite important and easier if we could even pay the contractors in those areas, by way of decentralisation.

Mr Speaker, this House has been talking about payments to retirees, for example. We have been urged to decentralise payments to retirees. This means that we have to send this money to Solwezi, so that a retiree simply walks into a commercial bank branch to get paid. Therefore, we are not quite sure what this reliance on the Bank of Zambia would mean. It means, therefore, that everything would have to be concentrated on the Bank of Zambia.

I do accept, as the Chairman says, that there are some controlling officers who might not be conversant with some of these rules and as you are aware, some of these officers might have been appointed after our workshop. Unfortunately, we cannot have a workshop for one officer. However, the appointing letters are very clear and they are very long letters, perhaps up to ten pages, explaining the roles of a controlling officer. I do accept what my good hon. Member of Parliament for Lusaka Central says about the sealings, and that we must go for the best possible guess. However, as the hon. Member alluded to, some of these guesses become out of context within a short time. Let me say again, like I said last week, the ministry only gives sealings to the ministries and the spending agencies. The allocations of the activities are done by the ministries and that is beyond our responsibility. Therefore, if one of the controlling officers decides to suppress an expenditure in one of the activities in the hope of coming back to get a supplementary, we actually ask why, in the first place, they suppressed that particular budget line. Obviously, by that time money has already been spent and we just have to regularise it.

Mr Speaker, I would like to say I am grateful to your Committee and I hope that when we bring amendments to the Constitution, even without the Constituent Assembly, they will support us.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Committee today.

_________

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2005) BILL, 2007

Clauses, 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Supplementary Appropriation (2005) Bill, 2007

Third Reading today.

REPORT STAGE

The Biosafety Bill, 2007

Report adopted.

Third Reading today.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Supplementary Appropriation  (2005) Bill, 2007

The Biosafety Bill, 2007

The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2007

The Mines and Minerals (Amendment) Bill, 2007

______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ARRANGEMENTS FOR DINNER

Mr Speaker: Order! Before, the House resolves into Committee, I have an announcement to make.

I wish to inform the House that the following arrangements have been made for dinner this evening:

(i) dinner for all hon. Members will be served in the National Assembly Restaurant, here, at Parliament Buildings;

(ii) dinner for members of staff and Government officials will be served at the terrace, Parliament Buildings. They will show you where that is;

(iii) dinner will be provided with the courtesy of the Hon. Mr Speaker; and

(iv) dinner break will be from 2000 hours to 2100 hours.

Hon. Members are required to be seated in the Chamber by 2100 hours. All Whips are requested to ensure that a quorum is formed at 2400 hours.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The Quorum should be formed at 2100 hours.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I know that the House is fully aware.

Thank you.

_____

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Before I give the Floor to the hon. Member for Lukulu West, I want to remind hon. Members that if you recall, this Vote was about to be completed yesterday. Therefore, I will give you the Floor just for a warm-up before we move on.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 80/01 – (Ministry of Education – Headquarters – K1,885,094,406,427

(Consideration resumed)

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I want to draw the attention of the hon. Minister of Education to the question of gender in the rural areas. I want to raise this especially, now, that the ministry has embarked on buildings houses for teachers.

Sir, the female teachers are very few in number and when they are sent to rural schools, where there is not even accommodation, tend to come to town in one way or another by either getting married too quickly or seeking marriages so that they can come to the line of rail.

This deprives the rural girls of having interventions from female teachers. It also deprives the female students from having role models that they can emulate. I, therefore, want to urge the ministry to speed up the building of houses for teachers, especially for female teachers, so that these can even be found in our rural areas.

Sir, it is totally unsafe to allow female teachers, especially for those that have the generosity and are willing to continue to serve their vocations, to stay in places which are muddy and poor. I could mention some of the schools because some people think that I am just making up these stories. It is for this reason that I would like to challenge anyone to go to Limbowe. If you went there, you would find that teachers do not even have doors that lock. This is totally unsafe.

Mr Chairperson, teachers that have completed their training are so many, but they are not employed. May I suggest what they did in Ghana where, when you finish your training and you are waiting for posting, you can teach at a school that is the nearest to you. That is a form of national service. Instead of waiting for postings, maybe, they can be allowed to teach at some fee in their own localities so that they do not lose the things they have learnt. At least the number of people that will be served by these teachers will increase. We need to increase our literacy levels and there is no other way we can do it except use our trained teachers.

Finally, Mr Speaker, I am aware of Part IX of our Constitution, Articles 111 and 112 (e) which state that:

‘the State shall endeavour to provide equal and adequate educational opportunities in all fields and at all levels for all.’

Mr Chairperson, it is the responsibility of the Government to provide education at all levels and places.

As I wind up, I want to mention that this is enshrined in the ULP mandate that we will endeavour to provide education …

Laughter

Ms Imbwae: I am not campaigning but I am only giving an example …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: … so that a just and fair system of education can be availed to everybody in this country. Therefore, we will endeavour to lift the quality of education in any of the rural areas that are not served.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Chairperson, in supporting the budget, I would like to go back to the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) and remind ourselves of its strategies:

(i) We have to produce a learner who is knowledgeable, innovative and productive;

(ii) to link education and skills in the new curriculum; and

(iii) to link education and training to real life situations in societies and communities so far as they emerge to employment, livelihood and survival skills acquisition and application.

When we look at these strategies, the first thing that comes to mind is the curriculum. In the foregoing, it was addressed that a curriculum should be developed but in the budget we are not seeing development. When you talk of curriculum development, it means you are maintaining the status quo.

Mr D. Mwila: Quality!

Mrs Sinyangwe: However, when you look at the strategies, it requires us to develop a curriculum that is going to allow a child to be innovative and have skills. At the moment, what we are doing is that we are producing a learner to reproduce, at the end of the year, memorised sentences of an examination. After the memorising and they write their exams, what next? What skills do they have? We are producing a learner who should leave a classroom to go and look for a job but the Fifth National Development Plan is not saying that.

Mr Chairperson, I am, therefore, urging the hon. Minister to look seriously at curriculum development.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: The current curriculum removes the learners from what they can do for themselves, and stresses what can other people do for them. I do not think we would want to have learners of that nature. As a Government, you have failed to provide employment and, therefore, I agree with the FNDP that a child must be innovative and have skills. Therefore, we must look at the curriculum seriously.

Mr D. Mwila: Hammer! Hammer!

Mrs Sinyangwe: When you look at the money that the donors give us, the curriculum is not given that attention because a curriculum develops a person into being a useful human being. We want children to learn. We want Zambians who can think for themselves. We are tired of technical assistants who come to learn from us and get all the money when we can train a child who can do things for himself or herself.

The other thing I wish to talk about is that education should relate to society. This reminds me of one thing again, let us localise our curriculum. If we go Luapula Province, people there are fishermen, why do we not include in the curriculum fishing skills …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: … so that when they leave school, even if they do not get a job, they can be prosperous fishermen.

In North-Western Province people keep bees, grow pineapples and oil therefore, we should localise it. Whatever people can do should be included in the curriculum.

As things stand now, we are talking again of procurement of books. If you procure, what are you procuring? Are you going to have the skills that you are talking about in the FNDP? Even then, it calls for development of writing books. Encourage the teachers to write books because they know the students we are talking about.

In Zambia today, if a teacher writes a book, it will take years for people to recognise that he or she has written a book. We would rather support Longman and other international books and leave our teachers who can write books. Please, let us encourage our teachers to write.

I wish to talk about other things I saw in the budget which is Gender and Equity given K1.8 billion what is for? What we see in this? Advocacy, sensitisation, T-shirts, workshops and so on, but what are we doing to the girl we are talking about? It would be better that for a girl who has left school and does not have people to look after her, to empower her other than spending all the money on workshops, advocacy or whatever. Let us change what we are doing for the betterment of the people we are talking about.

 I am not saying that the ministry of my sister is not important, it is important. We have done enough advocacy and sensitisation, now we should empower the women and the girls. We should aim towards that goal.

When the Hon. Minister was speaking, he talked about distant education a subject that is very close to my heart, but we are just paying lip service. There is nothing that this Government is doing to address distant education adequately.

When we come to educational broadcasting, Zambia was first in the region. Education broadcasting started in 1961 and they were producing very good programmes. What has happened now? It is almost dead.

Mr D. Mwila: Bebeni ba Lungwangwa!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Even developing countries have education broadcasting, what about us who do not even have adequate schools why should we not develop it?

I am glad that the Minister said that it is a process he has started we yet have to see what will be put in place that educational broadcasting does what it is supposed to do.

Education broadcasting brings the outside world into the classroom. Things that a teacher cannot do education broadcasting can do. Even a school where you do not have a laboratory, if you have a good science programme, that laboratory can be brought to the classroom. Let us think and develop things that are there. Why should we be pioneers and end up failing lamentably?

South Africa had television after us but look at the programmes that they are producing. We do not produce educational programmes. Mr Minister, I want you to address this one.

Lastly, the other thing I would like to talk about is teacher’s deployment. When I left Teachers Training College, I left with my TS number, knew my headmaster and a school where I was going. Why should we keep teachers in the compounds when schools have no teachers? It is not an issue that we should debate. The responsibility of a responsible Government is to find teachers for pupils and not to find employment for teachers. We have our priority wrong, you think you are doing teachers a favour by employing them. You are not.  You are just doing a disservice to your children who have no teachers. How can you talk of quality when there are no teachers in schools?

Lastly, Mr Chairperson, I want to talk about infrastructure. I went round Zambia and I am sure the Minister knows that I went round Zambia. What we heard is something that we cannot write home about. We cannot even be proud. I am glad, Mr Chairperson, the Minister said they will be building so many schools per year. I hope what we are saying can be interpreted into reality because Zambians are very good at talking and I know that the Ministry of Education has a rich human resource and they are good at writing. They write beautiful things, I was part of them but out of what we wrote, very little was implemented. I hope now this Government will be responsible and do what is important because education is key. All of us start through education, if you do not have education, you cannot have anything. If we do not do something about the education of our children, after this generation is gone, one would wonder what sort of Zambia we will have.

Mr Chairperson, I am glad the Professor is a capable man and with his team, they will work hard so that at the end of three years, we must see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank all those who have contributed to the debate on the Vote and in view of the time constraint, I will not respond to each and every point raised but I would like to point out that as a Ministry we appreciate the support that has been given to all those that have contributed to the debate on this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, we have heard the counsel that has been given which is centred on making a difference. The counsel has been that we should concentrate on improving the education system. We should focus on expansion of the system, on the quality of the system, on equitable access to the system, on the relevance of what is being taught and learnt, and on improving the facilities. We appreciate the counsel that has been rendered. We have been, of course, counselled as a Ministry that we should look at infrastructure development, curriculum development and its relevance with special attention to physical education. We should look at teacher supply and recruitment, the financing of the system with special attention to the vulnerable, equality of the system, focusing on teacher pupil ratios, education materials provision, the expansion of high schools, the retention of staff, their motivation, monitoring of educational standards and physical visitations to our education establishments.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to assure the House that our focus as a Ministry is on learner centeredness. We want to see an innovative, imaginative and creative learner who will contribute to the development of our country in all dimensions. We are not only focusing on distance learning but we are equally modernising our education system through the provision of ICT, computers are now very powerful teaching and learning instruments and as a Ministry we are modernising in that direction to complement or supplement distance learning opportunities.

Mr Chairperson, we have an opportunity this year to make a difference and as a Ministry we are committed to making a difference. We would like to see our children learning and learning happily in our educational institutions at all levels. I therefore, Sir, wish to appeal earnest to the House to approve Head 80 Budget so that we can quickly get on with the work and make a difference in the education system.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 80/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/03 − (Ministry of Education − Planning and Information Directorate − K318,798,753,781).

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, on Head 80/03, Programme 8, Activities 03 −  Procurement of School Furniture (Desks) (12) − K11,535,030,379, Activity 19  −  Construction of High Schools (21) − K110,866,686,919 and Activity 20  −  Construction of Basic Schools (22) − K50,000,000,000, looking at the amounts, it is important that we have a schedule of the programmes so that we know what will happen this year.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, on Head 80/03, Programme 8, Activities 03 − Procurement of School Furniture (Desks) (12) − K11,535,030,379, Activity 19, Construction of High Schools (21) − K110,866,686,919 and Activity 20  −  Construction of Basic Schools (22) − K50,000,000,000, I would like to inform the hon. Member that these are specifics which are broken down and I would like to assure the hon. Member that the details of what is entailed in the expenditure is available and that we can provide the information.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 80/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/32 ─ (Ministry of Education – Regional Headquarters – Luapula Province K7,933,681,122)

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, May I have clarification on page 786, Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 14 – Grant to PEO’s Office – Nil. Last year there was an allocation of K606,739,345, why this year there is no allocation.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister of Education.

Mr D. Mwila: I have not finished, Mr Chairperson.

On page 798, Sub-head 7, Programme 2, Activity 03 – Infrastructure – Nil, there was an allocation of K147,018,186, but this year, there is nothing. I would like to find out why. I also seek clarification on Programme 8, Activity 01 – Construction (48) – K12,646,263, Activity 02 – Rehabilitation (49) – K10,676,891, Activity 03 – Maintenance (50) – K2,529,253, Activity 04 – Monitoring (51) – K1,686,168. Last year, there was no allocation and the amounts which have been allocated this year are little. I would like to get an explanation from the hon. Minister.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, on page 786, Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 14 – Grant to PEO’s Office – Nil, page 798, Sub-head 7, Programme 2, Activity 03 – Infrastructure – Nil, and Programme 8, Activity 01 – Construction (48) – K12,646,263, Activity 02 – Rehabilitation (49) – K10,676,891, Activity 03 – Maintenance (50) – K2,529,253, Activity 04 – Monitoring (51) – K1,686,168, if the hon. Member looks very carefully, the programmes that we apportioned to the PEO’s office last year have now been apportioned to the districts. This explains why in a number of instances, we do not have allocations to such activities this year. This is because they have become programmes at the district level.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 80/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/33 – (Ministry of Education – Basic Schools – Luapula Province – K51,928,370,317).

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Sub-head 1, Programme 7, Activity 01 – Grants to Basic Schools (4) – K412,449,308. Last year, we had K561,408,652, but this year, it has been reduced. I want to know the reason why. On Sub-head 5, Programme 7, and Activity 01 – Grants to Basic Schools (5) – K506,265,515, there is also a reduction from K798,750,076 last year. On Sub-head 7, Programme 7, Activity 02 – Grants to Pre-Schools – Nil, there was an allocation of K282,234,356 last year, but there is nothing for this year. I would like to know why there is no allocation.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 7, Activity 01 – Grants to Basic Schools (4) – K412,449,308, Sub-head 5, Programme 7, Activity 01 – Grants to Basic Schools (5) – K506,265,515, Sub-head 7, Programme 7, Activity 02 – Grants to Pre-Schools – Nil, the amounts have been reduced due to provisions under Sector Plan Implementation. This will be made available by the Sector Plan Implementation at the headquarters level.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I would like to find out why he should take it to headquarters because that allocation is supposed to go straight to the districts.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, it is part of the infrastructure development where we have allocations at the headquarters level which is going to cater for all infrastructure development in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 80/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/38 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/39 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90 – (Office of the President –Provinces – K29,150,381,410).

The Deputy Chairperson: We are now moving on to consideration of all the provinces and as was the practice last time for those of you who have just come in, the practice is we debate all the provinces together and we limit the hon. Members debating to three per province.

Now, in this particular case, we will begin with His Honour the Vice-President making a general policy debate on all the provinces. Thereafter, we will then go province by province and three per province as I stated. Then, the hon. Minister for the Province will wind up. This is the procedure for all the provinces. Like I have guided before, it is not a must that those three speaking should really finish the 15 minutes. I know most of you are very brief. You can make your points in less than 15 minutes.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: You see, I am being told this is the time when the Chair is willing to listen to people talking while seated. I am being told that instead of having three speaking, we can even have two which is…

Hon. Member: Why?

The Deputy Chairperson: The Chair does not want to break the rules, but if hon. Members want to have one person to speak, the best is for hon. Members not to indicate the desire to speak.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President (Mr R. B. Banda): Mr Chairperson, I am most thankful for the time that I have been accorded to present the estimates…

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! We are not listening. Let us consult quietly, but let us listen.

Will the hon. Vice-President continue, please.

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, I am most thankful for the time I have been accorded to present the Estimates of Expenditure for the provinces for the year 2007.

Mr Chairperson, the main objective of the provincial administration is to provide the arena for the effective co-ordination, implementation and monitoring of various sector policies and strategies on behalf of line ministries and Central Government as a whole in order to ensure the provision of quality services to the local communities.

Pursuant to the above objective, the functions of the provincial administrations include the following:

(a) ensuring that Government policies are understood and being implemented in the province;

(b) planning and co-ordinating development activities in the province;

(c) mobilising development resources for the province;

(d) monitoring the utilisation of resources and execution of district development plans and programmes;

(e) consolidating district development plans into provincial development plans.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I cannot hear. I am being distracted. Let us consult quietly.

Will he continue, please.

The Vice-President: Perhaps, it is a sign, Mr Chairperson, that the hon. Members are getting exhausted, but let us try and complete as quickly as possible.

(f) carrying out statutory and audit inspections in all districts;

(g) co-ordinating state and traditional ceremonies; and

(h) maintaining law and order throughout the province.

Mr Chairperson, a review of the budget performance for the year 2006 indicates that the provincial administration recorded significant achievements in many areas, such as, the following:

Agriculture/Economic Sector

This includes roads construction, infrastructure maintenance and rehabilitation, improved crop harvests and mining development, such as, the Lumwana Copper Mine in the North-Western Province and the Nickel Mine in Mazabuka, Southern Province and poverty reduction programmes to just mention a few.

Social/Energy Sector

This includes procurement and distribution of school requisites, such as, computers, stoves, books, chemicals in line with Government policy of free basic education; increasing the number of upper basic schools in order to enhance accessibility to high school education; provision of health requisites using poverty reduction funds in order to improve access to quality health services; rehabilitation of local courts in order to improve operations of the judicial delivery institutions; and implementation of the Rural Electrification Programme through the provision of solar panels to some schools and health centres.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to state that the above list of achievements is not exhaustive, but rather illustrative that the provincial administration could make significant accomplishments if given the necessary support by hon. Members of this House. It is also important to state that the above achievements were accomplished in the midst of the challenges and constraints which included the following:

(i) budgetary constraints, particularly, for those programmes that are done at specific times during the course of the year;

(ii) inadequate capacity in information management due to lack of equipment and necessary skills;

(iii) unreliable and inadequate transport for smooth implementation, monitoring and co-ordination of programmes;

(iv) changing weather conditions which cause floods in some parts of the country that result in damage to infrastructure, such as, roads, bridges and buildings;

(v) contractual delays; and

(vi) large number of carry over projects from previous years.

Mr Chairperson, the above challenges notwithstanding, I am happy to report that the budget office did their best by releasing more than 78 per cent of the budget for the provinces in the year 2006. The provincial administration appreciates that resources are limited and that there are other critical national programmes this year that require huge resources.

Notwithstanding the afore-mentioned, the provincial administration has the responsibility to facilitate the local communities to participate in the exploitation of the natural resources in agriculture, forestry, tourism and other resources based industries with a view to improve their standards of living.

Mr Chairperson, I now seek the indulgence of this honourable House in considering the provincial administration vote favourably for the purposes of smooth administration and development in our provinces.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: We now move onto Head 90 – Office of the President – Lusaka Province. Maybe we should speak at random…

Hon. Members: Yes!

The Deputy Chairperson: …and we will be tell how many have spoken for each provinces as long as you make sure that not five people speak for each province.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 2000 hours until 2100 hours.

Mr Mtonga (Kanyama): First of all, I would like to offer, on behalf of my colleagues, especially hon. Members from Lusaka province, our heart felt and sincere condolences to Hon. Shawa, the hon. Minister of Lusaka province, on the sudden demise of his daughter. We are with you and feel sorry that this has happened. I hope God gives you strength as we pursue this programme of development.

I also want to say that before your coming to Lusaka province, we have seen other hon. ministers and they came with their own styles of leadership, like bringing Members of Parliament together. I believe it is a challenge to you as it was to them in that your party, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), has not won any sit, apart from the peri-urban areas within Lusaka province. Yet, we expected to work together and deliver development. Sometimes, failure by your predecessors arose from failure to distinguish between developmental and political issues. We wish to commend you for starting with serious consultations. Upon assuming office, you asked all of us to come and visit you and we had friendly exchange which set a new pace for accounting for elected power, particularly in a multi-party democracy. We hope the attitude you have adopted will accelerate delivery of services to our people.

Madam Chairperson, I also wish to say that Lusaka is a capital city and nearly every part of Zambia has its tribe’s people within this town. Indeed, as others have said earlier, Lusaka represents the best place for one Zambia one nation. Therefore, this means that the variety of differences is equally much. Yet, our desire, especially from elected hon. Members of constituencies in your province, is to help you deliver to our hard-pressed people. In this regard, we would like to see more dialogue over allocation of resources, ranking of priorities, so that issues of development do not appear to be taking place only in certain districts if we look at the budget.

We also think that with you at the helm, Lusaka which is afflicted with cholera and dysentery arising from failure to manage solid waste, can now receive proper assessment and leadership. You know that rubbish has to be moved seasonally and at regular intervals. We do not have to wait for the rains or the outbreak of cholera to start moving waste. We think that this should be done regularly before garbage piles into hills within our townships. We, therefore, shall be looking forward to a way in which current resources can go towards removing solid waste in our respective townships.

We also have, Hon. Minister, a problem of our hard-pressed people, some of them are parading along gateways to South Africa, the north and the east. Some are crushing stones along the roads. We think that we should come together and consider how best to deal with this issue, with Government being in the leadership position so that our people can see that we have left it to the Indians, Lebanese and especially the Chinese to buy their stones. We think that Government should exhibit leadership in seeing to development of our country and thus alleviate the difficulties that our people are experiencing.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to see that the roads that have been savaged by the rains are also attended to in urban areas of Lusaka. I know that your office sent the district commissioner to meet us and discuss the disaster effects in Lusaka. We felt that meeting was the first of its kind and useful. However, since that time, although we discussed useful information, there has been no follow up in terms of places where little bridges have been washed away, clinics were flooded and patients had to undress their shoes in order to get into some health centre. We were promised some action.

Therefore, I hope that the disaster benefits are not going to by-pass our local townships. With those few words I thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr Sinyinda (Senanga): Madam Chair, first of all I would like to thank you very much for allowing me to contribute and support the Vote for Western Province.

I would like to urge the Government to do quite a lot for Western Province because as you know, the Province is the poorest. A number of reasons have contributed and worsened the poverty situation.

Western Province had harboured the freedom fighters until 1990 and is still harbouring refugees. This situation has actually contributed to the poverty levels in the Province.

I would like to urge the Government to do a lot especially in the field of education. Western Province does not have a girl’s high school. I know that my brother has emphasised on the need for improved education facilities, but I would like this to be a reality. We would like to have more desks in the province for our schools and would like more schools to be constructed and rehabilitated. We would like more bursary schemes and more money put into them so that the poorest of the poor can  benefit.

Madam Chairperson, in the field of health, I have in mind our only general hospital which we would not even call a general hospital because of its bad state. This is Lewanika Hospital in Mongu. I would like to urge the Minister of Health to ensure that the standard of Lewanika Hospital can be uplifted so that it can be called a General Hospital. We would also like to have more rural health centers in our province.

Madam Chairperson, I have also in mind the state of our roads. We have very few roads in the Province. Out of the seven districts, there are very few of these that are connected by good roads. Therefore, I would like to urge the Government to ensure that Senanga-Sesheke Road, Kalongola-Kalabo Road, Mongu-Kalabo-Sikongo Road, Kaoma-Sesheke Road and Lukulu-Kaoma Road are constructed.

In the field of agriculture, I would like to urge the Government to ensure that animal diseases are eradicated. We would also like to have the animals re-stocking programme that is in Southern Province. This should be taken very seriously, Madam Chairperson.

I would also like to urge the Government to improve the standard of Mongu Stadium so that our young people can have recreation.

Lastly, I would like to discuss the issue of new minerals. Just like any other province, the Western Province has got the potential of being a mining area. I know that there are quite many minerals in the Western Province and am asking this Government to prospect and exploit this potential.

I thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): I thank you Madam Chairperson for allowing me to contribute to the Vote for provinces. I must say that looking at the Budget for North-Western Province, I get the impression that Government was trying to joke, but I have never seen a government that jokes.

Madam Chairperson, the Budget for the Province is mainly about wages and salaries. There is very little in terms of development projects and that is why I am saying that the Government was trying to joke with the people of the North-Western Province. But we are not interested in joking in that sense.

Madam Chairperson we are more interested in serious development issues that are affecting the province. These are issues of roads, bridges, mines, energy, water and the more serious issues affecting the lives of the people like health and education. All those things are not being attended to in a very serious manner. I will just cite a few.

Most of the districts in the province are experiencing black outs. There is not enough electricity in the province. Most of the districts are not connected to the national grid and we are being told by the Minister of Energy that they intend to develop the Kabompo Hydro Power Station which will eventually supply electricity to the province.

Looking at how long it takes to implement these projects, we do not know when the Kabompo Hydro Power Station will eventually take off and supply power to the province. In fact we are surprised that in the whole process of developing the Kabompo Hydro Power Station, the Minister of Energy and Water Development appears to be side-lining the local people, especially the few entrepreneurs that have come up from the province to form a consortium to develop the Kabompo Hydro Power Station.

He has already started evaluating bids for the development of the same, ignoring the serious local investors that have come from the province. That, we shall not allow because we the owners of the province want to take a lead in investment and in benefiting from the projects that are going to occur in the province.

Similarly, Madam Chairperson, we are blessed as a province to have a lot of minerals and we want this Government to develop those minerals including copper and oil to the satisfaction of the local people. We want the development agreement that this Government entered with the mining companies to be made available to the people through their leaders, the Members of Parliament. We must have sight of those development agreements.

As Members of Parliament, we would like to know what you have agreed with Kansanshi and Lumwana mines as part of their social responsibility. We would like to know when they will build a school, clinic and or a road. Why are you hiding such public information? The only reason you are hiding such information is because within those development agreements are financial transactions that appear to be against the interests of the Zambian people.

Madam Chairperson, the same applies to the current effort for the search for oil. Apart from the thin advertisements in the newspapers that are issued by the Minister of Mines and Minerals, which lack detail, the local people have not, through their representatives, been informed about what is happening at each stage on the search for oil. We do not want a situation where we shall find a white man coming to disperse local people. We do not want to find a Whiteman one day coming to displace local people telling them that, ‘we have mining rights here, you move away.’

Mr Mukanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: That, we shall not allow because you will be provoking the people. When people are provoked, they will do everything within their power to protect themselves and their rights.

Madam Chairperson, we are concerned about the promises that this Government makes to the people of North Western Province. For example, last year, there was a provision in the budget for constructing the road from Mumbwa to Kasempa. We were very happy that it would provide a shortcut from Lusaka through Central Province to North Western Province. To date, nothing has been done on that road. We do not know what happened to that money. May be they appointed a contractor who has pocketed the money and has done nothing on that road.

This Government, for example, promised that it was going to replace all the pontoons and bridges. We counted our pontoons in the province and they are quite many. Watopa for example, if replaced by a bridge would provide a short cut from Lusaka to Zambezi, Kabompo and Chavuma and to Angola. Instead of taking two or three days to pass through the Copperbelt, it would take just one day to reach Zambezi, but that has not been done.

Similarly, other pontoons on the Zambezi River, Chavuma off the Zambezi River and Ngevu River which is also a very big river- it is just as big as the Kafue or the Zambezi River itself, but there is no proper pontoon and there is no plan by this Government to put a bridge there.

Madam Chairperson, we are also concerned about how this Government is treating the people of North Western Province in terms of agricultural development. We get excited as a people that the Government has a Fertiliser Support Programme in place. However, when people want to participate in that programme, they get disappointed.

For example, farmers in Kasempa, Mwinilunga and many other palaces were made to pay for the fertiliser for this farming season. Up to now, they are still waiting for their fertiliser. Where did their money go? Why was the fertiliser not supplied? These are the question that we are asking.

In addition to that, because the Government is not serious with the development of the agricultural sector, they went to establish satellite depots under the Food Reserve Agency which, in many cases, are 50 to 100 kilo metres apart. Imagine a peasant farmer with two bags walking for two or three days to get to the nearest depot to sell his few bags.

This is not correct. The Government must be serious and establish as many depots as possible and closer to the people so that it makes life easier for the peasant farmers to sell their produce.

Madam Chairperson, North Western Province is blessed and rich in culture. We have some of the richest cultural ceremonies, if not, the best in the country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Some of these are the Likumbi lya mize, …

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: … the Lunda-Lubanza Ceremony, Chesemwa chaba Lunda, Kufukwila of the Kaonde People …

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: In fact, the Kufukwila is just coming up in May and I am inviting all of you to come to Chief Makumbi’s area to enjoy that area.

Mr Sichilima: Mukanda!

Mr Kakoma: Come august, come and enjoy one of the best traditional ceremonies in Zambia, the Likumbi lya mize. Those of you who would like to take the opportunity to go to Mukanda …

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: … can also to do that.

Madam Chairperson, while talking about traditional ceremonies the President of the Republic of Zambia recognised the rich culture of the people of North Western Province. He ordered that the cultural village be built in Zambezi. To date, we are still waiting for that cultural village to be built. Hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Service can we please have our cultural village built this year. There is no way you can make the President look like a person who tells lies when he gave correct directives that the cultural village must be built and that was three years. To date, not even one stone have been laid. Could you, please, do something about our cultural village.

One of the most serious issues in the province is lack of water. We get surprised that other provinces are receiving a lot of boreholes and this Government was giving up 300 boreholes in one province and with nothing in North Western Province. We have serious water problems in Ifumaba in Solwezi West, for example, there is no water. There are many cases.

For example, in Zambezi West, since the programme for water started, not even one borehole has been drilled there, but we are part of Zambia. We would like to get something from this national cake. What have we done that we should be drinking dirty contaminated water from rivers and streams 45 years after independence?

Most of the children have surfer from diarrhoea because they are drinking contaminated water. Most of the teachers are refusing to go and teach in rural places because there are no boreholes. There are a lot of problems that we are experiencing, that we would like this Government, which the people of North Western Province trusted so much and gave an overwhelming vote.

Mr Tetamashimba: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: As you members of the MMD always say, ‘scratch me and I will scratch you.’

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: It is your own slogan.

Therefore, since we scratched you, scratch us also by bringing development.

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: If not, we will stop scratching you next time.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Chitika (Kawambwa): I thank you, Madam Chairperson, for giving me this opportunity to contribute on this vote.

First of all I would like to commend the new administration in Luapula for being inclusive in whatever they are trying to do.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: They have realised that we are all stakeholders in what is happening. Hon. Minister I would like to assure you that if talk about development, you will have all the support of all the hon. Members of Parliament in Luapula Province.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: You will find your work very easy and people will simply say that they want Mr Chinyanta again.

Madam Chairperson, Luapula Province is a land of plenty. We are blessed with a good geographical area with beautiful sites.

Mr D. Mwila: No drought!

Ms Chitika: We have two big lakes in the province.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: With beautiful white sands. We receive more than enough rainfall for any agricultural produce. The list is endless. If Luapula is properly managed, supported and if there is political will from the Government of the day, Luapula can be likened to the Garden of Eden.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtonga: Zoona!

Ms Chitika: This province can contribute greatly to the economic growth of this country. If, for instance, the growing of the palm trees is encouraged and supported at commercial level. The money that will be incurred from this product alone will be so substantial that we will not be not be able to bother the hon. Minister of Works and Supply for any roads. We will be able to do that as a province. There are countries in the world that have survived on palm oil.

Madam Chairperson, the Kawambwa/Luena Plantation has been on the drawing board of Government for many years. The people of Luapula are tired of waiting.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: Madam, if this programme is supported, the sugar that will be produced in Kawambwa will be able to be exported even to other countries. This will be able to contribute to the GDP. It is high time the hon. Minister for this province followed up this issue because we are tired of waiting. Government should show commitment about this project.

Madam Chairperson, there is an issue of tourism in the province. The unavailability of the tourism office in Luapula is depriving a lot of tourism activities for the people of Luapula. The tourism officer who is based in Kasama rarely visits Mansa District. Therefore, we feel left out as people from Luapula Province. We feel that he is doing more in the Northern Province than what is being done in Luapula Province. We are therefore, appealing to the able hon. Minister through you, to give us an officer in Kawambwa to be based in Mansa…

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: …especially that the focus now in the province is to develop tourism among other sectors in the province. The money that is provided for, for instance, for alienation of land for agriculture and tourism development purposes is a big joke. Government should have done much better than what has been provided for.

Hon. Opposition Members: Quality!

Ms Chitika: Madam Chairperson, as a province, we want to open up our nice sandy beaches, islands and other sites including the Ntumbacushi Falls in Kawambwa. This can only be done or made possible if Government is committed to this programme.  Just like any other sector, tourism is a labour intensive industry and provides jobs for local people in both rural and urban areas.

Therefore, tourism creates opportunities for both large and small entrepreneurs. It also promotes awareness and understanding among different cultures. It brings a unique informal sector and creates economic linkages with agriculture, light manufacturing and construction industries. Tourism is one of the sectors that can thrive in rural areas for the direct benefit of our communities. This is a reason why we are putting an emphasis for Government to help us develop this sector in Luapula. Our emphasis is that Government should show commitment to open up or facilitate those who want to get involved in tourism sector.

Madam Chairperson, the people of Luapula are so productive and hard working. We have never received any relief food because we are able to feed ourselves.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: The efforts of our people have gone to waste because of the poor road infrastructure in the area. If the Kawambwa/Mwenda Road was opened for the people of the plateau, the crops that would be able to come out of that area would be able to feed the entire Copperbelt Province. If you open up the areas like Samfya, Kasaba and Lubwe you will be able to get fish from Luwingu. We are talking about a road that is cutting through Lubwe, Kasaba into Luwingu. You will be able to see the beans that people can be able to produce in that area.

Madam Chairperson, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba (Chiengi): Madam Chairperson, this is the first time I am rising to debate an item on this year’s Budget. I am humbled that you have given me the opportunity to do debate. I will be a little bit nationalistic since I have heard the minors about Luapula. I will not really talk about Luapula only.

Interruptions

Dr Kalumba: Madam Chairperson, I note that in each province, there are some very positive things that have happened under the administration of President Mwanawasa.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: I think all of us acknowledge this, wherever you are, whether it is Eastern, Southern, Western, North Western, Central, Lusaka, Copperbelt, Northern and Luapula Provinces. I can see my brother, Hon. Tetamashimba, is aggressively agreeing with me …

Hon. Tetamashimba: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: … because I know that some very good things have happened in North-Western Province as well.

Madam Chairperson, there is still development deficits that need to be attended to in each province. I would like to look at infrastructure, in particular, the road infrastructure. If I were coming from the North Western Province, I would speak very developmentally. As a descendant of the Kaondes, I am now speaking very developmentally that there are development deficits in North Western Province particularly, the Mutanda/Chavuma Road. The Mwinilunga/Solwezi Road is running out of its life span and needs resurfacing.

Mr Tetamashimba: Quality my brother!

Dr Kalumba:  Having had very intimate contacts in Western Province, I am sure that the people of Kalabo are waiting for the completion of the Mongu/Kalabo Road. That is very important development for Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Bikapo Yewe!

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: We are not allowed to say slogans in this House. I will ignore that, Madam Chairperson.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Madam Chairperson, the Choma/Namwala Road requires completion. I am sure all of us know the Bottom Road. Hon. Muntanga, you do not need a definition of the Bottom Road because I think you know it very well. The Bottom Road needs completion. The Mchinji Railway Line for Eastern Province is a matter of considerable sensitivity. I think this requires some attention as well. We are talking about a very short distance of about 27 kilometres. I am sure if there is further development, we can complete it and may be avoid the embarrassment we have shared for a long time because of not completion of that stretch. This administration is determined to complete it. I, therefore, thank the Government for the commitment they have shown.

Madam, when you look at Chipata/Lundazi/Chama Road, there is some work to be done and it is important that we do pay some attention to that issue too.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: What about the Mbesuma Bridge in Northern Province and the completion of the Kasama/Luwingu Road to Mansa? What about the Kasama/Mporokoso and Mbala/Nakonde Roads? Surely, these are issues that require attention. My sister from Kawambwa has mentioned the development deficits in Luapula.

If it is in Luapula, I forgot to mention the Kashikishi-Munchima Road but there is also, very importantly…

Mr Hachipuka: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised

Mr Hachipuka: Is the debater, who is debating very eloquently, though we cannot see him…

Laughter

Mr Hachipuka: …in order to campaign nationally on behalf of the MMD? I need your serious ruling.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

He actually did mention that he was going to debate nationally. Therefore, he is also in order to campaign nationally.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Hon. Kalumba, you may continue

Mr Kalumba: Madam Chairperson, not even in my worst dreams have I thought about campaigning in the context that the hon. Member has mentioned. Although, if has dreamed about them on my behalf, I would like to consult him after this.

Laughter

Mr Kalumba: Truly, these development concerns, you can mention some of these in Western Province, if you live in Chitambo Constituency, there are concerns there that you need to attend to.  It is a question of strategy. We do have the Minister of Works and Supply, very dynamic engineer...

Hon Member: A young man.

Dr Kalumba: I do not know about young, but very dynamic.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Hon Minister, I would like to say this to you; you have a very important Ministry and I know that you can deliver. We are counting on you because you gave a word to this House that you will make a difference to this Ministry, particularly in respect of improving the road infrastructure. Therefore, stay close to your pledge to this House and I know that you are man of your word and you have a President who will support you in you commitment to bring this vision through, for the benefit of the people of Zambia.

It is unacceptable to a have a contractor on any site, anywhere in this country where money is being paid for no value whatsoever. It defeats the purpose of public policy; it defeats the purpose of good governance and the Government’s intentions. The Government is being insulted when you have engineers who do not go on site to inspect what the contractor is doing. You can change that culture hon. Minister and ensure…

Hon Member: He is annoyed.

Dr Kalumba: No, I am not yet annoyed. I am never angry when I become a Katele. I am sure that with the dedication you have with your brother, Hon. Tetamashimba, a dynamic young Kaonde who knows how to speak very forcibly …

Hon Member: Because you were together.

Dr Kalumba: Yes, my brother. You will provide the leadership necessary to address the difficult questions with your colleague in finance. You can not keep contracts that are not performing for ten years. It is not right and you have a Head of State making pledges to the people, knowing that the Ministry and the people behind it will ensure that it is done, there are contractors on site and he is laughing at you. It is not right. This Government has a promise to the people and I think indications so far are clear that we want to deliver as the MMD Government for all our people.

Please, do not let these contractors who have lived, some of them for many years, they have walked on the national, some of them think they are too national, they do not even listen to counsel from consultants. Their own consultants are telling them that they are cheating the Government and they think we are foolish, Madam Chairperson forgive me but I think there is need to have the Mooyas of this House to help some you and some of your men down there to supervise. He has been on some of the roads where the contractors have failed to perform, hon. Minister, I think that there is need to sit down with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Justice to look at some of these non-performing contracts. Terminate them and bring in new contractors on site. It is important for Zambia, it is important for the Government.

I than you, Sir

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Thank you, Madam Chairperson. It gives me great pleasure that my colleagues also decided that I should be one of those to debate on Southern Province, especially that these are closing debates. However, before I delve in to the issues that I want like to raise, I would like to say that as a freshman in Parliamentary Procedure, I enjoyed this session immensely. I enjoyed it, particularly because we had His Honour, the Vice-President who, by his experience and stature provided the magnanimity we so very much deserve in this House.

His Honour the Vice-President, and the Speaker have provided the kind of posture that a House as noble and blessed as this one deserves. For me, it was very good during this tenure, to know His Honour the Vice-President is always around.

I would also like to say that it was privilege for me that I am a Member of Parliament at a time that Hon. V. J. Mwaanga is a Member of Parliament. Michael Jackson did sing about staying power. For a man to have survived national governance, from 1964 to date and is still in Parliament, that speaks volumes about staying power. How many of us in this August House will even match him one quarter way? How many?

Hon Members of Parliament: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: It is such pleasure for me that I can record myself as having been with Hon. V J Mwaanga. I can assure that in some ways, I have benefited immensely from his advice.

Madam Chairperson, the issue of Southern Province is the issue I have delved to speak on several occasions in this House. I have spoken about Southern Province with passion. This is because of the tribulations of the people of Southern Province who, I think have contributed more than a fair share to the development of this country, more than a fair share. On the Eastern side of the Southern Province, you have the Gwembe Valley, which has been known as the city of commerce, even before development came to this country. Alas, for our people on the Gwembe Valley, the white man required that there must be dam. A dam was created to put paid to everything that held the people of Gwembe Valley together, destroyed commerce, destroyed prosperity, buried ecology under the waters of the Kariba.

Today, the people of the Gwembe Valley wallow in poverty, which they do not deserve and yet the are responsible for lighting the entire country of Zambia. The prosperity of the people on the Copperbelt and everywhere else in the country who are so-well lit and prosperous, are prosperous because of the founding fathers of the Gwembe Valley, may their souls rest in peace.

Hon. Members of Parliament: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: It is for this reason that we have repeatedly said that the bottom road as a way of thanking the people of the Gwembe Valley, at least some way, you know in Namwala, we say ‘Anhimo bolalumba’

Laughter

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: You should be able to say thank you to a people that have done so much for you. Year in, year out, you bypass the Bottom Road as though the people do not exist. If you travel to Lusitu, go to Ng’ombe Ilede, you will find that Tonga people are eating grass. I know that my traditional cousin will say that is right. He can be forgiven because he prepares that at Khozo Lodge.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: This is the extent to which our people are suffering. The plateau Tonga shall forever continue to suffer in perpetuity.

Madam Chairperson, the people of the plateau, particularly, those of Mazabuka approached me in my capacity as Indigenous People’s Rights Chairman. We marched to Lusaka with bus loads and truck loads of people to demonstrate that we need our land. When you travel from Livingstone all the way up to Kafue, you will find that there is a continuous barbed wire line. If you look right or left, you will not see an African village.

Madam Chairperson, in 1976, I went to Eastern Province, Gondar Barracks, which was my first military cantonment from where I served. I go to Eastern province quite regularly, but when I went there this time around, I was happy to see what I saw. On either side of the Great East Road, you will see development that are African in nature, not white men’s farms. You cannot say that Southern Province is developed when a white man has put barbed wire lines and cattle fences everywhere. What development are you talking about? When exporting his products, that white man is going to export them to his fellow white people in Europe. It will not be the indigenous people of this country who will be exporting. We must talk about development that is indigenous.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Chairperson, I know that we do things because we know that there is a Government. Having said that, I want to tell you if I had my way, I would deal with this problem once and for all and I will not even blink one little bit. I can assure you that.

Mr Muntanga laughed.

Major Chizhyuka: I also want to tell you that I have the capacity to deal with this problem.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: If this problem takes too long to be sorted out, I might adopt the kind of posture that is required to have this problem dealt with.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Chairperson, there is also another valley on the western side of Southern Province. I have left out issues of tourism for my colleague to deal with them.

Madam Chairperson, you may be aware that God had six days to work and create the earth. On a Tuesday,…

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka:…he decided not to work the whole day and reserved that day in order to create a place where some of his favourite people would live. Thereafter, he realised that he had to place them on the Kafue Flats.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Chairperson, on the Kafue Flats, God gave his people abundance natural resources. He looked at his people and said that “I will give you the best waters” and gave them the Kafue River. When he looked at his people again, he said that you cannot live on you own. I have to give you something else and he gave them cattle. After doing that he said that may prosperous be with you for ever and ever.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Chairperson, the problem has been the issues that I talked about last time. What I am trying to say is that because we are part o this Government, we have to be subservient to the whims of this Government. If it went for that, the hundreds of thousands of cattle that died on the Kafue Flats would not have died and our people would have been much richer. By now, we should have had a posture or a way to ensure that we export beef to the rest of the world. How can we have a situation where Botswana, an arid land, which most of its land is a desert can have its GDP calculated at 41.79 per cent? This percentage is being contributed by the livestock sector. Yet, here in Zambia, we have the plains of the Kafue Flats, the plains of the Western Province and some of the plains in North Western Province.

Madam Chairperson, our sons and daughters run away from this country to go to Botswana to make a better living for themselves. Nine months later, they come back driving cars. They drive these cars because of the money they earn from an economy that is driven 49 per cent by cattle. Do you understand that you could be ten times better.

Madam Chairperson, the last piece of advice to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives that we would like to welcome you, my tradition cousin to Southern Province. In giving you this welcome, I also want to advise you on something.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Southern Province must tell President Mwanawasa the truth. From the military school point of view, we say that in order to advise a man as a Head of State, he should allocate quality time to the thought process of advising the Republican President. This is so because the Republican President is human like all of us and he is bound to make mistakes like all human beings.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: The statements about some politicians not wanting development in Southern Province is arising from a very poor, shallow and unresearched advice.

Hon. Garry Nkombo, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka and I, have welcomed that mine in Mazabuka. How happy we are that we have got a mine there. I am surprised to find there is a negative report coming through from somewhere. In Southern Province, all we are saying is that let us have an environmental impact assessment because this is a base line requirement all over the world. Even the World Bank will tell you that you need an environment impact assessment for any project.

Madam Chairperson, because of the kind of tribulation the people of Southern Province have had, we want to know if that mine needs another 2,100 hectares on top of the 1,000 hectares they have and the top of 800 Kilometers under ground, which they go and mine. All of us are Africans. Even you, from the Executive, you will understand that it is too much for a province, which has no land and a district like Mazabuka, which had the least land in the entire country of all the seventy-two districts. We are one and the same. You should give President Mwanawasa correct advice. These statements about “going to hell”, what is that?

Madam Chairperson, I am reminded that a certain Head of State used to call his people “stupid idiot.” When the wheel turned, the same people he was calling ‘stupid idiots’ are the ones who ruled him and locked him up. The ones he was insulting.

Interruptions

Major Chizhyuka: I am putting these matters plainly. Give the President the correct advice because we are here for development. We want to development. We shall visit your offices regularly so that we develop together.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: There is no one who does not want development.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Vote pertaining to Southern Province and continue where my brother Major Chizhyuka left.

I would like to state that Southern Province is a land of man-made tragedies. I say that man-made tragedies in the sense that those endowed with authority to govern us have been misgoverning us.

As Major Chizhyuka mentioned, the issue of land in Southern Province is very emotive. You are all aware that our people who were occupying very fertile land in the Gwembe Valley have been displaced under the authority of those who are in Government. The same has prevailed in Namwala through the Itezhi-tezhi Dam. There has been no adequate compensation for the people who were displaced. We call upon you through you, Madam Chairperson, that the people of the Gwembe Valley and those who were displaced in Itezhi-tezhi need compensation from this Government. The only adequate compensation they can derive from Government is the provision of adequate water so that they can irrigate their arid land.

The poverty that is prevailing in the Gwembe Valley is man-made. If those people were not displaced, they would not have been dehumanised as the situation is now.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: The people of Namwala have been displaced. The areas they are occupying now are only fit for cattle ranching, which this particular Government have failed to protect.

We appeal to you that the majority of the people of Southern Province strive on farming. However, the farming system in this province has been systematically destroyed by the previous governments including you colleagues. I am blaming you because you are not coming up with a systematic way of addressing issues that affect agriculture in Southern Province.

You are aware that if we do not do anything as a matter of urgency in Southern Province, the cattle stocks in Southern Province will be wiped out because of animal diseases. I am aware that the same scenario is obtaining in Western Province. If we do not do anything tangible, the poverty levels in Western and Southern provinces and other parts of the country, will be worse.

I appeal to you, Leader of Government Business in this House, to intercede on our behalf. I am aware that the former president of Farmers’ Union is aware of the problems we are talking about.

The issue of the Sakala Commission Report which was an attempt to address the land problems in Southern Province has not been addressed by this Government. I know that the Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Daka) is not even listening to me because where he is coming from there are no issues of land problems. However, bear in mind that land issues are very critical. We are aware of countries that are neighbouring us the problems that are arising from there. We do not want us to reach that level.

We were assured through the Sakala Commission that some of those huge tracks of land in Mazabuka, Monze, Choma and Kalomo will be bought back by Government so that there will land redistribution, but that has not happened.

For those who have been to Kariba Dam or Livingstone, the indigenous Zambians in Livingstone as the situation is now, have no access to the Zambezi River. Those who were given farms on the upper land in Simonga area cannot take their animals to water. The entire stretch of land from the bridge up to the Victoria Falls to Kazungula is now owned by foreigners. The Zambians who are supposed to benefit from this resource have no access.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Why should we allow Zambians who are supposed to be benefiting from their resource to be suffering? Those who have been displaced in the Gwembe Valley have no recourse they cannot even have access to the Kariba Dam as the situation is now. And you colleagues who are in Government are in the forefront allocating land to these foreigners at the expense of Zambians.

Major Chizhyuka: Shame!

Mr Mwiimbu: Why are we doing this? Even those who are occupying the banks of the Zambezi River in Livingstone, most of them are racists. Even if most of you here are ministers cannot have access to those private lodges in Livingstone.

Hon. UPND Members: Tell them! Hammer!

Mr Mwiimbu: Why should we allow ourselves to be treated as second class citizens in our own country?

Hon. UPND Members: Tell them!

Mr Mwiimbu: Why should we allow that?

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: There will come a time when this issue will be addressed.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank the MMD Government very sincerely for making us continue winning in Southern Province.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: You are the ones who are making us win. If you were responding to our concerns, I doubt whether a lot of us would have been here. And we are happy that you are going to continue and we are going to continue winning because of your policies.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: If you do not change your policies, you will continue losing. You will not lose in Southern Province. I can assure you, if you do not change in 2011, I do not see anyone of you to come back.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: I am telling you.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: The last sitting of this House the majority of those who were on your side are gone. Where are they? We used to advise but they never listened. We are genuinely advising you that please, when we make presentation on behalf of our people listen attentively. We are giving you constructive criticism. I do not think there is anyone who would want you to fail for the sake of wanting you to fail. That is not our intention. Our intention is to ensure that people we serve are given the services.

Southern Province is very unfortunate because there are roads that have been on the drawing board since Independence. The Choma/Namwala Road is one that has been discussed and I do not think there is any road that has been discussed in this House more than this road. Madam Chairperson, so much money has been spent but there is nothing on the ground. Provisions have been made but money has been diverted to other areas. Why is this so? We need that road to be completed this year. If that is done, we will appreciate.

Madam Chairperson, the Monze/Niko Road has been under discussion for a long time and on the Pemba/Mapanza, Kalomo/Dundumwenzi, and the Bottom Road, we have just been getting assurances. The people of Southern Province do not want assurances, they want work to be done on those roads. You have been telling us that Southern Province is an agricultural area, I cannot remember when the last feeder road was rehabilitated in Monze, Namwala, Gweembe and in all these districts in Southern Province. How do you expect the people of Southern Province to provide the requisite food stuffs to this country if you do not provide the infrastructure to enable them produce? You cannot do it.

Madam Chairperson, in Southern Province there are farming blocks which have been in existence for a long time but there is no electricity. We thought that because Southern Province is the major producer of electricity, we would be discriminated positively but nothing has happened.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, in terms of water, we were assured by the President when he declared Southern Province a disaster area that the Government was going to provide water for irrigation through dams and boreholes but nothing has happened. All we are getting are statements. We need irrigation in Southern Province to enable us continue with farming activities. We are hearing of dams being constructed in areas where there are perennial rivers, why should you do that? I thought you would provide dams in areas which are drought stricken, and in areas where there is a lot of water, you just need reticulation of water. There is plenty of water and so why would you sink a borehole in a lake?

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: It is not advisable. But that is what you are doing. We need these resources in Southern Province. Madam Chairperson, the people of Southern Province who are residing near the game parks have suffered a lot. This Government appears as if they favour animals to human beings. The animals have been destroying crops and killing people but the Government is in the forefront protecting the animals. Even my brothers in Western Province who do not respect life, have lost a lot of people in Senanga and they have lodged complaints but Government has done nothing.

Madam Chairperson, these unique people who celebrate disaster …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … have been crying that the only source of wealth which they have is cattle but Government is doing nothing about it. This issue of creating monopolies to buy beef in areas like Western Province is not helping anybody.

Mr Sikatana: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sikatana: Madam Chairperson, is it in order for this hon. Member of Parliament to allege so seriously that when the Lozis celebrate Kuomboka, they are celebrating a disaster ...

Laughter

Mr Sikatana: …when, in fact, we have made it a point that the Tongas will remain what they are because of not celebrating …

Mr Mwiimbu: Drought!

Mr Sikatana: …drought?

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order! That point of order is a serious one. The Chair will say, ‘one man’s meat is another’s poison’.

Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister for Southern Province to be consultative. We will give him the support as long as he is going to work with us. He is in Southern Province in order to serve the people of Southern Province. What we are appealing through you, Madam Chairperson, is for the hon. Minister to ensure that there are regular meetings with us who represent the people of Southern Province. He should not rely on the advice he is being given by the district commissioners especially that those are the ones who really mislead…

The Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member’s time has expired!

Interruptions

Major Chibamba (Shiwang’andu): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice …

The Chairperson: Order! Can we consult quietly because the Chair would like to listen to the debate. Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Major Chibamba: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Vote.

Naturally, Northern Province is the largest in the country and the people of the area expect that the Government deliberately considers giving them sufficient funding in order for the administration in the province to implement set goals by the Government of the day.

Madam Chairperson, in the last fifteen years or so, Northern Province has been receiving very little funding and it is not a good thing for us because not only is the province the biggest one in the country but also the weather pattern in the province demands that there be enough funding in order for us to be able to maintain infrastructure and be able to build new ones to cater for the ever increasing demands by the people of the province.

Madam Chairperson, I want to talk briefly about provincial administration. Now, like my other colleagues who have spoken before me, I would like to appeal to the hon. Hon. Minister of the province to do one thing, which I am sure is capable of doing. Have confidence in all the hon. Members of Parliament in the province…

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: …because we have resolutely assured him that we shall support him and we have done so. We have demonstrated that we do not have any other Provincial Minister other than, hon. Deputy Minister himself, seated on your right hand side, Madam Chairperson. Now, unless, we can closely collaborate with each other, it is going to be very difficult for us to serve our people as elected Members of Parliament. Luckily enough, our hon. Minister is not an appointed Member of Parliament, he has a Constituency.

I want to say this, Madam Chairperson. That, I have no doubt in my mind that our hon. Minister is agile, still fresh, I would not like to say young, soft spoken…

Hon. Members: Aah!

Major Chibamba: …nice individual, but I think I do not want to hide what I have observed. I think a lot of our colleagues, Members of Parliament might have observed in the same way. Please, do not listen to District Commissioners (DC). I have an example of the DC in Chinsali. I want to see that my hon. Minister is visiting my constituency. We lay a red carpet for him and organise the people to receive him. What can be better than that? Than, I hear that the hon. Minister visited my constituency, he went with the DC, the Councillor was not informed and he came back unceremoniously. No, we want to give him the respect that he deserves. We must be able to receive him and make sure that the hon. Minster is well protected and escorted back to his place of residence.

Having said that, I am looking also at the tours. I do know that Northern Province is very vast. At the moment, he may not have sufficient resources with which to be able to perform. Let us look at the main sectors of the economy in the province.

Firstly, roads, I would like to say, Luwingu Turn Off, Mporokoso and Kaputa, we cannot continue with the current situation in the province. I am sure that I do not intend to draw in the Chairperson, but I am sure that inward the Chairperson will agree with me that it takes somebody…

Madam Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

The Chairperson: Debate without drawing the Chair into your debate.

Major Chibamba: Madam Chairperson, thank you very much, but the fact still remains that we have a problem…

Laughter

Major Chibamba:…in the province because of the size. Northern Province like Luapula and North-Western receives a lot of rains, much of the time surplus to requirement. Therefore, I would like to call upon the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives to do slightly more than he did last year. We are very thankful, hon. Minister to you and his Excellency the President. You gave up enough agro-inputs last year, but you did not put in place safety mechanisms to make sure that those agro-inputs did not find their way into the neighbouring countries. I have facts, hon. Minister, Madam Chairperson, that fertiliser meant to benefit the people who deserve it, in whose name the President went out of his way to get additional fertiliser disappeared in thin air. All we are told is that no we followed the guidelines. We would like to see that District Cooperative Unions are now given more powers to store and distribute the inputs, while the DC and his team District Agricultural Coordinator (DACO), Office of the President and Police are looking after the money. They can account for it.

I want to say this again, Madam Chairperson, if you look at the other sub-sectors of the economy, education, tourism, health, water and sanitation. Hon. Mwiimbu says that you do not sink a borehole in the lake. Indeed, you do not want to sink a borehole in the lake, do you? We have a problem in Northern Province because hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, I am aware that you are doing something about it, but I want to encourage you to please, expeditiously, give us some funding to support Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company. Thank you very much hon. Minster, I do not want to go beyond that. Thank you.

Laughter

Major Chibamba: The other point is that Northern Province is endowed with a lot of natural resources like any other province who does not happen its level of exploitation of those minerals and so on.

Now, I am going back to roads, I did not know that our able hon. Minister, Hon. Simbao, who is among the three hon. Cabinet Ministers coming from the province. Let us not suggest that we have to abandon other provinces needs, but I think it is only fair that once in a while Cabinet Ministers do find time to join us in the province to discuss development issues.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: On Rural Electrification Programme, I know that there is an issue of Shiwang’andu-Manshya Hydro-Scheme. I would like to appeal to you hon. Minister to put in your programme and your mind the needs of the local people, not what I am hearing on the ground, where some people who have 45 square kilometres of land still want to extend that land and light it up for ranching. I do not think that is what is required in this country. I will not support my colleagues from Southern Province. Why should animals all of a sudden become more important than human beings? Hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, I would like you to kindly look at the plight of the people of Shiwang’andu. Last month, eight people were hounded bundled into the vehicle and taken to prison. The following morning appeared before the courts and sentenced to something like 2 years each. Why? Because a stray hippo which had been wounded by some other people somewhere else ran through a village and went and fell down. Naturally, I think the people said here we are…

Laughter

Major Chibamba:…and then they were picked up. Poor people were locked up I had to go there myself. I think that is not fair if a person has committed an offence, it should be treated with dignity that human beings deserve. Yes, hon. Deputy Minister, like I said I have every hope and trust in you. Tour all the districts. Kaputa is one of the very difficult districts…

Hon. Member: You are boring the Chair!

Laughter

Major Chibamba: … so is Chilubi. There are a lot of problems with regard to communication. On account of lack of time, I may not go into details, but I am sure that when the hon. Minister tours Chilubi, he will see where we need an embankment in order for us to cross to the other side.

As regards Nabwalya in Mpika and Isoka East, it is very difficult. The Muyombe Road has been worked on, but it has poor terrain. This particular road is very important. It needs a very fertile land in terms of agriculture and requires maintenance on yearly basis.

I also want to talk about Mbala …

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Major Chibamba: I would like to talk about Mbala because the Airport there has remained attended to. The economic importance of that particular facility cannot be overemphasised. To get to anywhere from Mpulungu, it is not as easy I am talking. In general, let us look at Luwingu and the twelve districts, including Lunte Constituency. With regard to Senga Hills, the place is so wet, almost throughout the year. Therefore, it poses a lot of challenges, not only to our people, but also to hon. Members of Parliament and Cabinet Ministers.

Finally, I would like to see that the road from Kasama to Mambwe Mission through Kayambi is worked on. We have three bridges which includes Mbesuma and Safwa. For Mbesuma Bridge, somebody was given money, but they have disappeared in thin air.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Sikazwe (Chimbamilonga): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to debate on the Vote for Northern Province.

Northern Province is considered as a rural province, and it is a main player in the development of the nation. It is a player in the Millennium Development Goals with regard to the education sector.

Much has been spoken about the Millennium Development Goals which has to be met by 2015. When I would like to appeal to the entire House, including the Cabinet Ministers and His Honour the Vice-President, to trek down to Northern Province and start looking at the infrastructure. When we compare the infrastructure and the population of Northern Province, the infrastructure is less. I would like to demonstrate this in this way. During the tripartite elections, the pattern of voting in Zambia was good, especially in Northern Province. It performed very well and this boosted the numbers of votes for the MMD.

Madam, I would like to talk about the population growth in Northern Province. The population in Northern Province has grown so much. I would like to appeal that you treat this province as urban in terms of infrastructure and education.

Mr Milupi: Quality!

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: This is because an educated nation is a wealth nation, and interpretation and implementation of policies is realised in full.

Madam Chairperson, education has an input in the development of this nation.

Mr Kambwili: MMD Quality!

Mr Sikazwe: I would like to appeal that Mulakupikwa College which was supposed to be the training college for the police is transformed into a Secondary School Teachers College in Northern Province. We further propose Lukashya Trades Schools which has very good infrastructure can be used by the University of Zambia for the college or faculty of Engineering for people in Northern Province. This will improve the level of education in the province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: I would like to request that the repatriating process for refugees in Mwange Refugee Camp is started. This is opposed to bringing the street kids there. We would rather you bring another teachers college to train primary school teachers.

Madam Chairperson, Kaputa District to date, does not have a completed secondary school. In Chilubi District, it has taken nineteen years. The Ministry of Education must stick to the motto of stability for the education sector. As the Government, we mean well. We have to start delivering these services to the nation.

The secondary school has to be built in Mpulungu District and Lunte Constituency. This should a policy like what the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is doing. We should have a policy of build secondary schools in all constituencies just like we give Constituency Development Fund to all constituencies. It is time for education to reach every area of this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: There is a school called Kalabwe Secondary School in Mporokoso. Money was donated for this school to be built. We look forward to the day when the Ministry of Education will come and open this school. We have to make sure that we meet the Millennium Development Goals in Northern Province with regard to the education sector.

Isoka Boys Secondary School, it has been out beaten. I am not going to stop talking about the Education Sector because education is the backbone of the nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: In Isoka East and West, we need another girls school in Muyombe. At one time, it was better for us to take our children to Malawi because Isoka Boys Secondary School is outdated. We have one technical school called Mungwi Secondary School. I would like to request the Ministry of Education to bring another technical school. We understand that you are trying to bring some more secondary schools, but it must not take time because the time for the target of the Millennium Development Goals is getting nearer.

Interruptions

Mr Sikazwe: Northern Province has a lot of boarding schools. The economy is a bit biting today. We need to shift from this notion. The cost of boarding school has reduced the number of students going to secondary schools hence the level of illiteracy is still very high. If everything which is said is done, the establishment of secondary schools in what I have said before will reduce the level of illiteracy and we will meet the Millennium Development Goals at a good note.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Madam Chairperson, in supporting the Vote on Western Province, I would like to pick on just a few points.

With regard to the Rural Electrification Programme, many of the districts in Western Province are not connected to the national grid. This makes the province one of the least developed provinces. In fact, if you look at the statistics available at the Central Statistics Office, you will discover that Western Province is the least developed. We made an appeal to use gas in places where there is no electricity. I urge this Government to connect the districts of Western Province to the national grid since the hon. Minister for Energy and Water Development is very hard working and has no problems addressing the problems of the whole country.

I now want to talk about the mode of transport in Western Province. I have been hearing issues about the Kuomboka Ceremony being a disaster, but I just want to look at the issues of canals and canal clearing. We have no roads to talk about in Western Province. Therefore, maybe while our Government is still making up its mind to work even on the Kalabo/Mongu Road and about connecting all our districts to the provincial headquarters because most of them are not connected, I appeal that some money be found to work on our canals so that we can have continuous transportation because the people of Western Province go to the water like ducks. It is natural and, therefore, we need those things we used to call in the old times, long jets where you have powered boats like the post boat that used to be there transporting people right across the Zambezi River and connecting the various districts by water transport. We do not have any post boat any more. We want to have boats on most of the rivers in Western Province.

I do not know whether Government has resigned that they will not be able to work on our roads, but I notice on Head 94/08, Sub-head 1, Programme 7, Activity 02 – Vegetation Control where an allocation of K358,762,559 was made last year for controlling vegetation and there is nothing this year in that line making it so difficult to have the roads even cleared in such a way that people can see the strange or scott-cart routes so that they can move from one point to another.

Hon. Government Member: What page is that?

Ms Imbwae: I indicated the pager number, Madam Chairperson.

If you continue also to look at page 1,287, Vote 94/08, on Sub-head 1, Programme 8 Roads Rehabilitation (Feeder Roads) – (PRP), again the issues of feeder roads grading and roads rehabilitation have been removed from the budget. We do not have any allocation this year. Surely, there must be a road somewhere that can be graded in the province. I wonder what is happening to us.

Madam Chairperson, on page 1,289, Sub-head 1, Programme 7, Activity 01 – Tree Planting – K30,000,000, an amount of K119,949,000 was allocated last year, but that has been reduced to K30 million only this year.

For those that are familiar with Western Province, they are aware that there is a lot of timber that has been logged without much control. A lot of money was provided for tree planting last year, but it has been reduced this year and I am wondering why this has been done because we need to have something that we can be proud of. Western Province has hard woods which are being logged and taken out of the province. We do not benefit from the use of forests and forestry resources. I am aware that there is no honey being transported or kept from North-Western Province. I was working on a project like that and so I know and I know that a tonne of honey costs more than a tonne of copper and this has been spilled to Western Province and yet the forest belt is exactly the same. I urge the Government to look at spreading this that does not cost much. It is not like mining. We are being forgotten on the mining sector. Please, let us be remembered on bee-keeping and forestry management issues so that we can also contribute to the moneys that are coming into the treasury.

Madam Chairperson, on the same page, Sub-head 1, Programme 8, Activity 01 – Forest License Inspection – K3,202,000, the amount has been reduced from K98,320,000 to only K3,202,000. How will they do the activities with such a drastic reduction? It only means that even the little forests that are left are going to be logged without anyone knowing that we are actually losing a big and critical resource.

I want to progress to page 1,291, Head 94/18, on Sub-head 1, Programme 7 – Vegetation control (PRP), an amount of K222,763,891 for canal clearing, but there is no vote for clearing our canals this year.

Interruptions.

Madam Chairperson: Order! Your voices are a little too high and the Chair can not follow what the hon. member is saying. Can we be quite and consult quietly, if we have to.

Will the hon. Member for Lukulu West continue, please.

Ms Imbwae: I was just mentioning that on page 1,291, Head 94/18, Sub-head 1, Programme 7, Activity 01 – Vegetation Control, an amount of K222,963,891 was given last year and there is completely nothing this year. How will we clear our canals when this is the only mode of transport that we have? In fact, because of lack of clearing of canals and transport other than for water, Western Province depends on so much on water for entertainment, survival and for the cultural traditions that are well known in the country. We only want canals should not only be cleared, but dug out and connected so that we have an inter-section of canals connecting most of Western Province and Southern Province because it is possible to sketch even the Sioma Falls so that we are connected to other provinces.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson.

Madam Chairperson, first of all, let me join Hon. Mtonga and on behalf of my colleagues, Members of Parliament for constituencies in Lusaka, in commiserating with our colleague and brother, the hon. Minister of the Province, on the demise of his daughter. We all beseech God to give him strength in this very trying moment.

Mr Mtonga: Nizoona.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, in contributing to the vote on the Floor, I would like to reiterate what I said last year with regard to the parallel structures of the administration in Zambia. I would like to appeal to Government to take the decentralisation policy very seriously so that the administration at provincial level becomes much more of a supervisory function than execution of programmes.

If you look in the Yellow Book, you shall see that there is some duplication of resource allocation. While some money is allocated to the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, there is also money allocated in provinces to the same function. That creates duplication of effort. I think that that money should instead be sent to districts so that local authorities have a direct responsibility in executing projects such as the ones that are provided for now at provincial level.

Having said that, let me turn to my province. In so doing, let me caution my dear brother, the hon. Minister of the province, that he has a very huge challenge before him. He is provincial minister of the most densely populated province in Zambia. At every given time, he will be responsible for the lives of more than two million people. Those two million people, hon. Minister, require the provision of services and infrastructure. What they mostly require is the provision of open and transparent decision making. I want to assure the hon. Minister that we, the hon. Members of Parliament from Lusaka, are always available to assist you in that very challenging task. All you have to do is continue with what we have started; to include us in the process of decision making. This should start right at the time that we start budgeting for the coming year. Once hon. Members are involved in that process, I can assure you that you shall have a lot of success in Lusaka province. We, in Lusaka province are not politicians for the sake of politics. We would like to be politicians for the sake of delivering that much need service to the people in the province. I have no doubt in my mind that if you agree to work with us, we shall score success, not for yourself, not for your political party but for the children of Lusaka province. That is what they want.

I would like you, hon. Minister, to join us when we urge Government to deliver development to Lusaka province. I would like you to join us and not stand on the other side when we, hon. Members of Parliament in Lusaka, ask Government to release the money that is provided for our in vote. I say this because if you look at the Yellow book, hon. Minister, you shall see that some money that was allocated last year was not spent. The money allocated for local courts is an example, yet that money was not released. We are put in a situation where we have to blame you and yet, you do not join us in calling upon the Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to release the money to your province. Instead, your predecessors would then become the scapegoats for Government. You are part of us and should join with us when we go knocking on the doors of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning so that our voices are heard and that we are standing in unison.

I will give another example, hon. Minister. For health provision in your province, last year a total of K2.7 billion was allocated. Sadly, only K2.4 billion has been allocated this year. Yet, the hospitals and clinics that were targeted for that money last year, not all of them were done. I want to acknowledge that there was some work done for Chongwe Clinic and for a clinic in the constituency that you represent, hon. Minister. However, there are some clinics that were not attended to. A case at hand is Chaisa Clinic. Last year, there was an allocation of K445 million for a clinic in Chaisa. I doubt if even a site has been put in place or if anyone in the Ministry of Health has identified where that clinic will be constructed. Yet again this year, there is another K455 million allocated for the same project. The question is, where did the K455 million that was allocated last year go to? How come it was not spent in Chaisa?  Those are some of the questions that must be answered.

In addition to that and I do not mean to say anything ill about the people of Bunda Bunda but I think that we should start to rationalise. Surely, would it make sense for us to put our Lusaka provincial hospital in Bunda Bunda? How many people will receive treatment if that hospital is tucked away in the very periphery of our province? Yet we are leaving people settled in Chongwe. Would it not make better sense to put an ultra-modern hospital in the centre of the province, in Chongwe, which people from Bunda Bunda and other areas around Chongwe will have access to, rather than tacking it away in Bunda Bunda? These are the questions that you as hon. Minister of the Province should be helping us to answer. What we need, like you have done in Lusaka and what we like you to do, is that the constituencies should have referral clinics but the centre is the one that should have the main hospital so that everyone in the province has access to it.

I hope, as the money has not yet been utilised, that hon. Minister you shall sit with my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for the area and also with our colleagues in the Ministry of Health so that we can rationalise that. It is for the good of all the residents of Lusaka province in that the hospital is centrally located. I am not saying it should be in Lusaka but in a constituency that is densely populated. In addition, I would like to propose to you, hon. Minister, that when you come up with project proposals, sit with us so that instead of spreading money thinly across the province, we can rationalise. I would have been very happy if the budget today had indicated that this year you are targeting the Lusaka provincial hospital and Chaisa clinic and leave out the others so that we attend to them next year. That way we shall be starting and completing projects within the year rather the idea of thinly spreading money across the whole province hoping that you will appease people. You are not going to appease anybody if every year the only thing you do is to dig trenches and fail to continue with construction because there is not enough money. I do not think that anyone of my colleagues in Lusaka province will be against that approach because our interest is not petty or for a particular constituency but for all the people in the province and through them all the people of Zambia. I think that rationalising will give us better dividends from the money that we are using right now.

Madam Chairperson, let me add to that by talking about education. Hon. Minister, I hope you will join me in lamenting the sharp reduction in the allocation to Lusaka province for the provision of improvement to education from K5.6 billion that was allocated last to only K2.6 billion this year. Bearing in mind that Lusaka is the most densely populated province, hon. Minister, you should actually be joining us in urging the hon. minister to re-think this provision. I am very glad to see that there is a provision for bore-holes in schools. Indeed, like I said before, if schools in Kanyama will run with pit-latrines, what impression are we creating to schools in Nalikwanda constituency?

Mr D. Mwila: Shame!

Mr Lubinda: If schools in the city are running with pit-latrines, I wonder what we should expect in schools in Solwezi Central. If are to show that we are really intending to develop this country, we must demonstrate that the people who are living in Lusaka are provided with these facilities. We can not in this era, have schools in the city that are running with pit-latrines. I am glad that for the very first time, there is an allocation for the provision of water to schools in Lusaka. What I regret though, is that it is only K200 million. I am sure that the Hon. Minister of Works Supply, who does his work, will tell me that the K200 million will translate into a maximum of 20 bore-holes. I really hope that next year, there will be an increase in allocation to that vote.

Another matter of concern, which is also as a result of the dense population in Lusaka, is the issue of resettlement. Hon. Minister, there are some people in your province that have been displaced and yet, we have not heard a word from you. I want to remind you of the people I am talking about. There are people in Matero who were displaced because we wanted to put up a damp site for solid waste. One wonders where those people have gone to. Where have they been relocated?

Another group of people who have been displaced are the people of Mahopo Village. You are aware Minister that the villagers in Mahopo have been sued and yet we have not heard any comment at all from your office. I would like to appeal to you Minster to take concern with issues of displacement in Lusaka because there are lots of people who are being displaced.

What about the people whose houses are being demolished now? How are we going to take care of them? These are matters that I would like us to discuss so that we find lasting solutions to the problems our people are experiencing.

Mr V. Mwale: Zoona!

Mr Lubinda: Minister, seeing that a lot of people have started dosing as it has been very long session today, I want to end by saying to you that Lusaka should be the hub of the country and therefore the state of roads in Lusaka is a matter of great importance. We can not have in Lusaka’s Kamwala Trading Area roads that are impassable. That is the second trading area of Zambia. That must worry you Minister. I would like to see that you take action to ensure that roads in Lusaka are done.

I have said before that feeder are not necessarily roads that bring maize. They are roads that take people from centres of production to centres of marketing. And for the people of urban Lusaka their production is their labour, so the roads that take them from the areas where they gain energy to where they expend it should be considered feeder roads. Put money in them as well.

Hon. Minister, let me end by urging you to emulate your other colleagues from amongst members of parliament in Lusaka to devote yourself to Government duty. I am aware of some deputy ministers who might not have the capacity to do that. I know you have it. I am sure you can utilize that time to develop this country. You should not be amongst those people who spend Government time in government offices doing nothing but just planning on how to fix others. Do not be like those deputy ministers whose jobs is to put their legs on the tables of Government thinking of how to be vexatious and frivolous over other people. Once we notice that in you, I can assure you we will chase you from Lusaka. Such people do not belong to Lusaka or anywhere in this country. We know that you can not manage to sink so low. You are a man of high integrity. We would like to support you because you mean well for this country and want to do politics for development and not for vexation and frivolous issues.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Banda (Chasefu): Thank you Madam Chairperson. Before I give a state of development for Eastern Province, I would like to congratulate Hon. Nkhata for having been re-appointed Minister in charge of the Eastern Province. Thank you very much for this appointment because I am pretty sure that Hon. Nkhata is a man of few words but more of action.

I will also be failing my duty if I do not thank the New Deal Government and especially President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for having appointed my elder brother Hon. Rupiah Bwezani Banda to be Vice-President.

The house has already observed that this is a man of great experience both locally and internationally. The appointment could not have come at a better time than now. Because this is the time we need reconciliation and politics of development because a country that is wallowing in poverty is not a country worth living in.

I would like now to give the state of Development in the Eastern Province.

The Health Sector

We have a general hospital called Chipata General Hospital. This is supposed to be a provincial Hospital catering for the people of Eastern Province. Ideally, this hospital should have a staff complement of 32 doctors. However, I regret to say that we only have three doctors working today at the Provincial General Hospital.

Is this an achievement forty-five years after independence?

Hon. Members: No!

Mr C. Banda: I leave it up to you to judge. We go to Katete District which has no Government district hospital 45 years after independence. Had the Anglicans not constructed St Francis Hospital the people of Katete would have had no where to turn to.

We are urging this listening Government of the MMD to do something in terms of constructing a District Hospital in Katete. I know that land for the construction of the hospital was allocated a long time ago. But for whatever reason the Ministry of Health sees no urgency at all in appeasing the people of Katete who sacrificed immensely for the independence of this country.

My appeal, without any apology, is that the people of Katete also deserve a share of the national cake.

Lundazi District has got a District Hospital. However, what has the MMD government done? Yes they started in earnest an expansion project to this district hospital but unfortunately, the expansion stored in 2001 and I hope this time around you will see the need to finish construction of the extensions to this hospital.

I am not asking for too much. I am asking for what we deserve. We are also Zambians.

Chama District deserves special attention; it deserves a hospital that can rightly be termed a district hospital.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Mr C. Banda: Madam Chairperson, Hon. Chilembo knows and he is crying everyday wondering what wrong we have done to this country that no one sees the need for us to have a good hospital. Chama, Lundazi, Katete and Chipata are part of Zambia and our appeal is for a fair share of the national cake.

Agriculture sector

All of you know that the economy of the Eastern |province is predominantly agriculture. But what problems have beset this sector? The hon. Minister of Agriculture will agree that the first problem is late delivery of inputs. This is the song we have been singing day in and day out. You can look at the Parliamentary records here dating as far back as 20 years where we always have been crying for early delivery of inputs. I hope this time around with the hard working Minister of Agriculture in place Eastern Province will have something to smile about. We need to be supplied the inputs in good time.

We produce a lot. Last year we produced a lot of cotton but the selling price of cotton was fetching less than the cost of production. Are you encouraging agriculture? You know we are dependent on agriculture. We do not have oil although there was an attempt to drill some oil in Chama district through the courtesy of Placid Oil. I will later be appealing to the Minister of Mines to ensure that we revisit that project because there could be oil. There is also evidence that fires break out at will in Chama and this may be an indication that we may also have oil in Chama.

But on a serious note, we in the Eastern Province in Chama depend on agriculture. But what is the state of feeder roads? Feeder roads are in deplorable condition hon. Minister. We are appealing to you to ensure that our feeder roads are repaired so that our produce can be taken to the market. It is a humble appeal and since you are committed to agriculture and knowing how serious you are, I think our feeder roads this time around will be attended to.

Some Dams in Eastern Province were washed away as far back as a decade ago and there are numerous reports in Government offices about the condition of these dams. Very few have been attended to. My appeal is that you need to attend to these dams that have not been attended to. You have National Service which we can call land navy.

They have a lot of equipment. Why can we not utilise them? Please, the people of Eastern Province rely on agriculture and they need dams.

Madam Chairperson, it is not only that, there is also a question of rural electrification. We have a constituency in Eastern Province called Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency. There is no electricity there. None! I am happy that we have an able person for a Minister of Energy and Water Development and I hope this time around, he will look sympathetically at Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency. We also need electricity.

I know that the MMD Government connected Lundazi to the Malawi Grid, but why not the Zambian Grid? Are we closer to Malawi? Should we pay loyalty to Malawi and not Zambia? We are appealing to you hon. Minister that we also want to be connected to the Zambia National Grid. We are part of you. What would happen to people of Lundazi, if war breaks out with Malawi? God forbid! It means we would be blacked out. We are also Zambians and we need to be connected to the national grid. Chipata is not far from the Lundazi. We have Mwasemphangwe Farming Scheme. Good people have been resettled there, but there is no electricity. How do you expect people to develop? My appeal to my brother- I know you have a heart, but I do not know which side of your body the heart is.

Laughter

Mr C. Banda: If it is on your right, please, touch it and feel the heartbeat. I know you have a feeling for the people of Eastern Province.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr C. Banda: With regard to the road infrastructure- I am already worried that soon I would be heading for my constituency- yes, I will be travelling on the good road from Lusaka up to Nyimba. After that, the road starts getting worse.

Mr Mbewe: Yohoya mwana wa kwitu!

Mr C. Banda: When you reach Chipata, the road is a bit alright. However, when you proceed from Chipata to Lundazi, it is hell. I cannot even say when you are travelling between Lundazi and Chama. What wrong have we done? The further you go from the capital city, the worse the condition of roads in Easter Province.

Mr Mbewe: Tell them!

Mr C. Banda: Why hast thou forsaken us?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter
 
Mr C. Banda: I have got a very strong voice and I know you can hear me.

Interruptions

Mr C. Banda: The point is that we also need a share of the national cake and we need to travel on good roads. Eastern Province is part of Zambia. Do not forget. Do not tempt us to start sloganeering Umodzi kumawa! We do not want that. We would like to be part and parcel of Zambia. People of Eastern Province are loyal, but do not take their loyalty for granted because if you forsake us, we have the capacity to turn on our backs on you. It will not be good. God forbid! What is important is that we also deserve a fair share of the national cake.

Hon. UDA Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: I remember before the 2006 elections word went around that we would only have development if we give you Members of Parliament. This time around we have given you many Members of Parliament.

Hon. UDA Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: We have even given you a Vice-president.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: Time for the MMD Government to honour their pledges is now.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: It is either you give us development or do not value us.

Hon. UDA Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: If you turn your back on us, we will withdraw them …

Laughter

Mr C. Banda: … and next time Eastern Province will be Opposition. We do not want that. We would like to work with you because we think MMD can deliver.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: Now, lastly but not the least, I would like to end on an appeal which has similarly been made by our colleagues from Southern Province. Our brothers and sisters from Southern Province have always been crying for the Bottom Road …

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: … but we, the people of Eastern Province, are crying for the ‘top road’.

Laughter

Mr C. Banda: This road will run from Lundazi to Chama to Muyombe to Ntendere, Mulekatembo, Nakonde up to Mpulungu Port. We are making this appeal because we would like to open this top area of the country to development.

With these few words, I know that Hon. Nkhata will ensure that during his tenure of office the reality of the top road will be achieved.

I thank you very much.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): I thank you, Madam Chairperson, for giving this opportunity to contribute on this Vote.

First of all, I would like to thank the Government for announcing that they have secured 23 million …

Mr D. Mwila: Condoms!

Laughter

Mr V. Mwale: … Euros for the construction of the Lusaka-Chipata Road.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr V. Mwale: Madam Chairperson, Bembas say, ‘ushitasha mwana wandoshi.’

Hon. Members: Meaning?

Mr V. Mwale: It means that he who does not appreciate is a son of the witch.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V.  Mwale: Therefore, I would like to thank the Government for this gesture.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: However, we would like this to be a reality. We do not want this to just be on paper.

Mr D. Mwila: Hammer!

Mr V. Mwale: We have been crying about this road just like our friends in Southern Province.

Mr Muntanga: Which one?

Mr V. Mwale: The Lusaka-Chipata road or the Great East Road.

Interruptions

Mr V. Mwale: We know that some good work has been done from Lusaka to Nyimba, but from Nyimba to Chipata, the road is very bad. We have two paramount chiefs in Eastern Province. Do not forget that we would like this to be a reality. We would like this money that has been provided to be released. We do not want to take twelve months to just do feasibility studies. No!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: We would like this to be a reality hon. Ministers of Finance and National Planning and Works and Supply.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr V. Mwale: I also want to thank the Government for starting the Chipata-Muchinji Rail Project.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: This is a very good gesture for the people of Eastern Province.

Mr F. Tembo: Hammer!

Mr V. Mwale: We know that our friends in Malawi built their railway line up to Mchinji in 1983.

Mr D. Mwila: Before you were born.

Mr V. Mwale: From 1983 up to date, we have been singing about the Chipata-Mchinji rail line. I would like to thank Hon. Katele Kalumba for mentioning it. This is a very curial project.

Mr  Mbewe: Yes!

Mr V. Mwale: We are tired of referring to Copperbelt and Lusaka as being along the line of rail. We would also like Eastern Province to be along the line of rail.

Hon. V. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport that this project has started.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: However, what we would like to see is for this project to move. In the past, we used to say, ‘no we will do this,’ but not even an inch has been done. This time we would like to see this project completed. We know that Malawi is opening a sea route. They will soon have a port on Lake Malawi. The Shire River is being widened to Zambezi and we will be bringing things from the Indian Ocean and so Malawi is closer to Chipata. We would like to import and export using this same port and therefore, the rail line would be very crucial. We would like this rail line to be completed.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank the Government for the fertiliser support programme.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: This is a very good programme. We know that we are moving away from extreme levels of poverty in Eastern Province because people are getting subsidised fertiliser and are able to grow more maize and other food crops.

People are getting subsidised fertilizer. They are able to grow maize and have a lot of food. This time, even if we are talking about drought, people have got something that they harvested last year. This is very good. We know that we had a very bad hunger situation in this country. We used to import maize but now we have got food. In this regard, as people of Eastern Province, we want to thank the Government for doing a recommendable job.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply should think about the Chipata/Mfuwe Road. This road should be tarred. Mfuwe is bringing a lot of money to this nation. The South Luangwa National Park is also bringing a lot of money to this nation. In this regard, we want a tar mark road from Chipata to Mfuwe so that tourists can move without any problems. This will enable our local tourists that have never been to Mfuwe to travel so that they also see the animals in Mfuwe. When some of the people in Eastern Province are on holidays, they would rather go to Lake Malawi instead of Mfuwe because of the poor state of the road from Chipata to Mfuwe. We acknowledge that at least, some development has been done in Eastern Province but we also need a tar mark road in that area.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about copper in Petauke. We would like to urge the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to open a mine in Petauke. If you could find investors who could quickly come and start mining the copper in that area, we would appreciate it, Sir. Our local people in Petauke should be employed in the mine.

The Chairperson: Order! The Chair is ‘Madam.’

Mr V. Mwale: Madam Chairperson, thank you for your guidance. I was making a point that the copper mine should be opened in Petauke. This will help our local people in that area to be employed and it will bring a lot of revenue in the province.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to comment on the cattle restocking exercise that we hear about in Southern Province. Even in Eastern Province, we need this exercise because we also have cattle there.  We also have the East Coast Fever and we know that most of our people have lost a lot of cattle due to this scourge. When we were looking at the statistics of cattle in Zambia, it was in this House when we learnt that Eastern Province was actually third. This area has been hit by East Coast Fever and we need restocking exercise. Our people should also benefit from this exercise because they have lost a lot of cattle. It should not be Southern Province alone.

Hon. UPND Members interrupted.

Mr V. Mwale: You should do it in both Southern and Eastern Provinces as well.

Madam Chairperson, lastly, I would like to comment on the situation that we have in Chipata District. We have about forty-one to forty-two rural health centres in Chipata District but we have one ambulance. This ambulance is for the whole Chipata District, which comprises of four constituencies.  Through you, we are asking the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Health to do something about this situation.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the many voices that have already been added. Firstly, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province for his appointment. He is a first young hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province.

Madam Chairperson, every time I debate about Copperbelt, I talk about issues that are close to my heart. These are issues that are pertinent to the development of this country. Without the Copperbelt, there would be no copper you are seeing around here and there would be no development in this country. Most of the things that have happened in Zambia today are as a result of the investment that went into the copper mines. It is as a result of the long production history of the Copperbelt. No one can take that away from us.

Madam, when we talk about the Copperbelt today, we are talking about the problems that have come to the Copperbelt as a result of liberalisation, privatisation and the briefcase companies that this Government has brought. It is important that we talk about these issues because without bad policies being implemented in this country, the Copperbelt would have been an icon of development. Today, when we talk about the Copperbelt, it saddens the people of there because it is not what it used to be. Every time we talk about the Copperbelt, we do realise that we have been promised and assured by this Government.

Madam Chairperson, explanations have been given but what I want to tell this Government that promises are promises and assurances are always assurances. Explanations will continue to be explanations. What we want is performance because it is reality. There has been no reality. This Budget we are talking about is just a promise and an assurance. Explanations are being given when we ask questions in this House. What the people of the Copperbelt Province want and need is reality. We want to see that whatever you are talking about will become tangible, something that people will be able to appreciate.

The Copperbelt has been promised over and over. At times, they have even been promised title deeds. On the Copperbelt, a number of people bought houses from ZCCM ten years ago. Today, we still talk about them over and over. Every time I stand here, I have spoken about it and nothing has happened. When we try to ask, explanations, promises and assurances are always given. How do you call yourselves the New Deal Government like this? What type of dealership are you talking about? We are talking about assurances, which do not change anything.

Madam Chairperson, what we are saying is that when we ask questions everytime on title deeds, this Government explains. Even if it is a long explanation, they will give it. We therefore, want this scenario to change. We want Zambia to be different. We have a situation in this country where Permanent Secretaries and District Commissioners behave as though they are bosses to hon. Members of Parliament. Who told them that? It is because of the culture that has been created by this Government. We do not need that situation. We need them to appreciate who the hon. Member of Parliament is. We need them to appreciate.

Mr Mwangala: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwangala: Madam Chairperson, I have been in this House for almost three months. Is the hon. Member of Parliament on the Floor in order to condemn the innocent District Commissioners who are not with us in this House. As far as I am concerned, these people are doing commendable job. Is he in order to do that? I seek your serious ruling, Madam Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! In guiding the House, the Chair would like to say that the District Commissioner is not a person but an office. Therefore, they can be discussed as District Commissioners and not as individuals occupying the offices.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mukanga: Thank you madam Chairperson, all I was saying is that we need a culture, which will appreciate that the Members of Parliament have a very important role to play, in the development of this country and that without them, there would be no development. This because, it is the Member of Parliament who comes to stand on the Floor of this House and explain the problems that pertain to their areas of operation. Therefore, is important that the Permanent Secretaries and District Commissioners appreciate that.

Madam Chairperson, I was talking about the Copperbelt .Foreigners have come to the Copperbelt, they come with briefcases and very poor, at the end of the day, they leave the Copperbelt richer than they came. They leave our ancestors who have settled on that land poorer and destitute. In the land of their ancestors, they have become destitute and continue to suffer. We are not going to accept that on the Copperbelt. We need to ensure that the indigenous Zambian on this land on the Copperbelt, which belongs to our ancestors, appreciates and benefit.

Zambia to day is left worse than it was found by the various investors who have come, especially the foreign investors. It has been left worse than it was found and yet all of us here have not even benefited anything. We can not continue with these polices. It is high time we changed. We are saying that the hon. Minister should look in to these issues on the Copperbelt. I think this is why when we came to this House as Members of Parliament from the Copperbelt, we said that, when it came to mineral royalty, we wanted part of that to be remaining with the local authorities so that our Chiefs and District Councils could benefit.

We want a change in Zambia; we want people to benefit because they are not there by accident. God gave us all these resources, we will offer an account for failing to utilise all these natural resources that God has given us.

Madam Chairperson, we see a situation in this country where our ancestors are sitting for many years on top of this land and in the name of exploration and development, people have come and said; where your house is, there are minerals and eventually they have become destitute. That is not what we want. At the end of ‘vulture mining’ in this land, we foresee no change. Surprisingly, as I speak we have the Gem on the Copperbelt and emeralds. What has this Government done to put measures in place so that those Gem Stones can be mined by the Government and the money ploughed back into this country? And yet we created a situation, a loophole, where foreigners would come in and mine our Gem stones at our expense and we continue to suffer. Why can the Government not go in to that investment so the Zambians benefit for the first time?

As for the environment, I would like to say that when this ‘vulture mining’ is finished, there are always a lot of problems. There are many environmental issues that have not been sorted out. When you look at vegetation on the Copperbelt, there are areas where trees are not growing. There are no trees in Kankoyo and if people plant the trees, they will die because the soil has become acidic.

If the plants and dogs can die, what about a human being? People that are coming from the Copperbelt are contaminated inside…

Hon Member of Parliament: No.

Mr Mukanga…the acid has damaged their internals and we are surviving by the grace of God because….

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Because you know that if plants can die, what about human beings. All I am tying to say is that we need to be compensated heavily because the sulphur dioxide has damaged our lungs and has damaged a lot of people’s lives on the Copperbelt.

Hon Member of Parliament: Hear, hear!

All I am saying is that there should be a proper policy to ensure that the people who are exposed to such environmental pollution are compensated properly.

We had a situation in Mufulira where there was acid contamination in water, nothing has happened. We might even have people who have died because of that but this Government has taken it lightly.

Madam Chairperson, on the Tourism Development Credit Fund, a lot of people have gotten funds from the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources and I do not know how they will pay back. Most of the nurseries, for those who went into Horticulture, have been burnt by the sulphur dioxide. How do you expect them to pay back? In addition, you will be following them up pay because they have failed to pay and yet it comes back to this Government because you have not allowed the Environmental Council of Zambia to take the same stance, to be independent. Every time the Environmental Council of Zambia wants to work, you are there, pushing them around.

When it comes to the local worker on the Copperbelt, the miner, he has been offered very bad conditions of service, to an extent where you will see that if there are two people, a white man and a Zambian …

Hon Member of Parliament: The black Zambian.

Mr Mukanga… the black Zambian, yes, is working what will happen is that even if they are doing the same job, the black Zambia will be getting about twenty-times less than the counterpart. What type of Government is this? Where are the Labour laws? We sit and say we will review the Labour laws later while the people on the Copperbelt are suffering. We will not accept that. We want the Minister of Labour and Social Security to look at issues seriously and lip service will be condemned and shall not be accepted.

When we talk about education in the Peri-Urban areas, we have situations where children have to walk five kilometers to access the nearest secondary school and there are no High Schools. On Kabwe Road, people walk eight kilometers to access the nearest school. What education are you talking about? If education is power, you are educated and you do not want the children to be educated. It does not work like that. We want proper empowerment this time. This time around, we are not going to letting you go. We want you to ensure that there is proper development and that people are able to benefit. Education is number one key and we want to see it, it is a chaste priority. We want to ensure that our children are educated.

Madam Chairperson, coming to the roads in and out of Copperbelt, I will talk about the Chembe Bridge. Every time you are talking about constructing the Chembe Bridge, what about the pedicle road? A bridge without a pedicle road is nothing, there will be no development. And when carrying out projects, ensure that the projects you are carrying out, if you are working on the pedicle road, work on the Chembe Bridge as well. Why should you work on one and leave the other.

Roads from Ndola to Mufulira-Sabina are impassable and yet millions of tones of copper pass through that road. The Chingola-Kitwe Road needs a dual carriage. People are dying everyday and yet all you are offering is lip service.

When it comes to the townships on the Copperbelt, the Macha Road in Ndola is impassable. Not even your VXs can pass in that road, what type of development are you talking about? It is important that you are serous.

Roads in Kalulushi and Chingola, are not even working…

Hon Member of Parliament: Mpatamato.

Mr Mukanga: Mpatamato is even worse.

When you are talking about ensuring employment in the medical field; we looked at the Labour authorisation figures and they are still the same. You are telling the people of the Copperbelt that it will be status quo, nothing will change and they will continue to suffer. Nevertheless, we are asking for the ambulances, we need them. We also ask that the Health Centre in Chililabombwe be turned in to a hospital. We can not appreciate a situation where ninety-three thousand people are trying to access a health Center. It does not work like that. We are talking about serious issues and they need to be addressed.

When we talk about deforestation, on the Copperbelt, we had good very plantations but we have allowed the so-called-investors to come and cut down the trees at will without re-planting. It is important that we look these issues and ensure that we check them. If we are going to sell companies, let us ensure that we check what is happening.

On rural electrification, we have done so badly. There are a lot of areas that need electricity. The Kafubu block has a lot of farmers and schools but nothing is happening, there is no electricity and yet we continue to pay the rural electrification levy every time we make a payment.

It is important that people of Lufwanyama also benefit in one way or another.

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about sport. Yes, we appreciate that you are bringing Dag Hammarskjöeld Stadium back to life, but is it the only stadium that we want? Maybe, it might be just another promise. What we are waiting for is a reality. We want to see Dag Hammarskjöeld Stadium on the ground.

Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We do not want to see like what has happened to Chifubu Stadium, which has become a damping site. We do not want that. That damping site started during the time of the MMD. What we are saying is that it is important that you take it upon yourselves as the Executive to ensure that the measures we discuss and that we have discussed in this budget are properly and efficiently implemented. Without implementing these issues, it will be very easy to be very easy for to fail. Even in 2011, we are coming back as PF on the Copperbelt.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: This time around, it will in a very big way. You should watch us. This time, we are not going to leave any stone unturned. We are going to make sure that we wipe out everything from the councillor to the top office.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: This time around, we are working flat out to ensure that work is done. If you will not perform, you will campaign for us and our campaign on the Copperbelt will be very easy.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Tetamashimba): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you for this opportunity. I would also wish to thank those who have debated before me except those who have been trying to mislead the nation. I am happy that many people are sleeping. Therefore, not many people are hearing.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, first and foremost, I want to tell my colleagues on your left that as at now, hon. Members of Parliament of have never written any document in terms of the budget or anything. Mostly, the Permanent Secretaries have been helping in all the programmes that we have been having in this country. It is therefore, unfortunate that hon. Members of Parliament can be the first to start attacking Permanent Secretaries and District Commissioners who have been doing such a wonderful thing in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, I want to comment on the mines. It is true that the mines have gone down. My brother-in-law who spoke before me is a former miner and I am sure he will agree with me that the mines were very good companies to work for. Having said that, we must be thinking which people who have made the mines to go down. You cannot blame the Government of President Mwanawasa. It is the leadership. Those in PF are the ones who came on this Floor of this House…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba:…and sold the mines.  
Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: We know it. It is not the ministers who are in the Front Bench and those in the second bench. No! Therefore, when we come to talk about…

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Chairperson, I stand on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Deputy Minster who just lost a serious point of order, which he raised some weeks ago, in order to mislead this House that the leadership in PF sold the mines when Luanshya Copper Mines was sold for U S $7.5 million not more than two years ago when President Mwanawasa was in power and still in power. Is he in order to allege that PF sold the mines when PF has never been in power? I need you serious ruling.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order! The Char was listening very carefully to the debate.  The debater did not say PF sold, but said leadership of PF.  I do not think that is a point of order to be raised. If they are any issues of debate, let the hon. Member debate.

Could the hon. Minister please continue?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, we have been told that…

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 2345 hours until 2400 hours.

The Chairperson: Order! Before, I call upon Hon. Tetamashimba to continue, let me appeal to you, all hon. Members that the effectiveness of your debate is not for speaking for fifteen minute because we still have a lot of business on our agenda. Can we be brief, precise and to the point so that we can move a little bit faster.

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, good morning.

Madam Chairperson, some of the debates that were in this House yesterday coming into this morning have not been very good. Before, I go to them, let me congratulate my Provincial Minister for North Western Province….

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: … who is a very hard working colleague of mine.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: I knew him when I was with his young brother, the late Hon. Dr Chipungu. He has done a lot for our province. He has also united us and there no more problems in our province.

Madam Chairperson, I agree that His Honour the Vice-President has made a very big impression on many people in this House. I therefore, like to encourage the State Counsel that this is the time that you must support him by standing on our party next time around.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: I also wish to assure you that President Mwanawasa will make sure that you are adopted.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: President Mwanawasa is in love with the people of the Eastern Province. You do not normally change, but for you to change, it shows that the man at the top pleased you and mostly, it was agriculture.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, I also want to go back because somebody said that Luanshya was sold for a song.

Yes! It is true that the MMD sold the mines, but what we must be looking at now is that there are individual players in all the political parties. It is the players who make things bad for this country. It is not the political parties because all the parties are good. When a player is playing badly in MMD, runs away to form his party and gets some hon. Members of Parliament, do not look at him as a hero. You should look at his back ground and see what he used to do when he was in other political parties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, I want to say that this Government especially, the people of North Western Province, we are very grateful to President Mwanawasa. We know the leaders who went and demolished Kansanshi Mine. We know them. Now, they are leaders in other political parties. It is President Mwanawasa who is making the economy of this country tick like what is happening in Solwezi.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: All the trucks of copper you see around going this side, come from Solwezi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: You must give him credit for that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Tetamashimba: Before, President, Mwanawasa came into being, the economy was very bad. I am surprised that we are forgetting.

Madam, at the time President took over, we were failing to go into Luanshya. We used to be stoned. I can remember my brother, the late Colonel Kafumukache, running away. President Mwanawasa found the situation the way it was and put money from Government into that mine. These were billions of Kwacha, but today, you cannot remember that. It is very unfortunate, my brother. I also want to appeal to my colleagues that I know how painful it is when you think that a lot of things are not happening in your provinces and yet it is the opposite. Madam Chairperson, if there are provinces that have benefited while in the Opposition it is Southern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mr Tetamashimba: If you go to the records you will find Southern Province. When you tell my brothers to take their animals for dipping they refuse.

Hon. UPND Members: Aah! Why?

Mr Tetamashimba: Even when you tell them to bring the animals to be injected they would refuse.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Even when they have 20,000 animals just to take five and buy medication for them, they would refuse. However, when the animals died this Government started restocking. When they restocked Southern Province were the beneficiaries. My brothers, please, give credit. I know my brother who is a chairperson for indigenous people …

Interruptions

Hon. UPND Member: What about boreholes!

Mr Tetamashimba: … bores are plenty in Southern Province. Some of my brothers who came to Central Province made this Government to go and sink boreholes where they were coming from.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: I know that the chairperson for the indigenous people is itching to protect the indigenous people. My brother I understand the way you fight for your people but sometimes you go to extremes.

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Minister, address the Chair.

Mr Tetamashimba: Zambia is not for any one single tribe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: When I was Member of Parliament for Solwezi West, I brought two Tongas to settle in my constituency. If you go at the junction of Mutanda/Mwinilunga and Zambezi, the shop you will find there is for a Tonga brother. Why because it is ‘One Zambia One Nation’. It is therefore wrong, Madam Chairperson …

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order

Interruptions

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Chairperson, is my traditional cousin who is debating so well in his usual eloquent manner in order to talk about extremeness when in actual fact in Namwala where I come from, I do not talk about two people or two Tongas or Luvales he might have brought because I have several thousands of Luvales, Lozis, people from Luapula Province and Kaonde and we have existed in Namwala in the spirit of ‘One Zambia One Nation’. Is he in order to insinuate …

Interruptions

Major Chizhyuka: … tribalism at the expense of a very good debate he is giving? I beg your ruling Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: The Hon. Deputy Minister may continue putting that concern into consideration.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: What I was implying was that …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Debate!

Mr Tetamashimba: What I want to say is that Members of Parliament must be last people to talk about colour and tribe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer, hammer Minister!

Mr Tetamashimba: Where I come from there is a lot of land for any tribe to go and settle there. That is what I was implying.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: That they can come and settle there why fight for land in Southern Province when there is a lot of land and good rains? Why stay in desert when there are good rains?

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: That is the point I am trying to raise.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, I invite my brothers to go to that end.

I know that we were told that most of the areas benefited from electricity from Lake Kariba, and yet some people were displaced but to insinuate that the whole Zambia has been enjoying because of electricity from Lake Kariba that is not correct for North-Western Province. President Mwanawasa only started electricity into that province during his tenure of office.

Hon. Government Members: They were running on diesel! Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Before that there was nothing. What we must know is that Zambia is one country. When we have the mines they must be able to benefit the other provinces. With good land in Northern and Luapula provinces and part of the Copperbelt, any Zambian can go and settle in that land. So those who feel that they are staying mountainous areas, …

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: … including those from the east, there is good land where we come from.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: I also want to say that during this sitting of Parliament we witnessed situations were lack of democracy in some political parties. I agree with the Minister of Local Government and Housing that politics and civil duties for Members of Parliament and councillors should not be disturbed. If we are going to start victimising Members of Parliament who want development in their constituencies, by going to ministers, that is not right. If councillors who are supposed to do civic duties of receiving heads of states will end up being punished, that is not good.

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order!

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mr Tetamashimba: I heard this afternoon that some councillors in Chipata were about to be suspended. As MMD, we are not going to suspend the Mayor in Chipata and another one that was mentioned for doing any civic duties because those are duties for which they were elected.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: And we hope that all the political parties will do what they were insinuating themselves because they brought up to say MMD wants to victimise people. We are not going to punish any of our councillors who are performing their civic duties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: On the question of civic duties, we are going to defend our councillors.

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order!

Hon. Government Members: Iwe!

Mr Tetamashimba: So, I wish to inform the hon. Members …

The Chairperson: Hon. Deputy Minister, debate through the Chair.

Mr Tetamashimba: So, we are not going to victimise those councillors or mayors in Chipata or anywhere for doing their civic duties. We are going to leave them to do their functions so that we can proceed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Having said that, I wish to thank you for the time you have given you and I want to promise you that Bottom Road for the first time has little amount of money. At least we are interested in seeing your road going to Choma my brother, you will not go back without the road reaching Choma and Monze we are going to do the tarring before you leave this House so that you come back again.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: The people, where the honourable national secretary comes from, be advised that we are going do something about it. You warned us. Last time we were told that if do not do the road we are not going to vote for you.

The Chairperson: Speak through the Chair! Through the Chair!

Mr Tetamashimba: We are going to do that.

Hon. Government Member: Even Kamwala!

Mr Tetamashimba: You must give us credit. We now have a by-past which many people do not know. If you are coming from the Copperbelt you can use a by-past, a very good road which has been made. I want to promise the House that my boss in the Ministry of Works and Supply has the interest to carry on the mandate he has been given by President Mwanawasa.

Mr Simbao: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: That is why for the first time President Mwanawasa has said that hon. Members must be told about development by the Permanent Secretaries and Ministers and we are grateful because that is what it should be. We appeal to our Members to make sure that you are encouraged to come to the offices of Permanent Secretaries. You should not run away from Permanent Secretaries because if you do, you will find that there is no development in your constituencies…

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Tetamashimba: Not because they do not want to help you but because you are running away.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamir (Chitambo): Madam Chairperson, I stand to support the allocation on this Vote. They say that a beggar is not a chooser but we would have appreciated if the allocation for the province had increased.

Madam Chairperson, in my constituency which is mainly a peasant farming area, there is a saying in Lala that ‘elyo aisa Mwanawasa imikalile yesu naitampa ukuchinja’ …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamir: This means that since Mwanawasa came, our livelihood has begun to change for the better.

Mr Kambwili: Bakakutamfya ku Chitambo iwe!

The Chairperson: Order! Will the hon. Member stop shouting across the Floor of the House.

Mr Hamir: You are welcome to Chitambo to listen from them. Madam Chairperson, the Government has done a lot in Serenje District, the hospital has been renovated with a new theatre and a mortuary. We are also luck that we have the Nansanga project and we are inviting hon. Members to come and invest in Serenje at the Nansanga project. We are also excited with the agriculture department and we hope that the hon. Minister will work hard this year. We also hope that we will get electricity under the rural electrification project. We should understand and bear in mind that our Ministers were recently appointed and for Gods sake we should give them chance to adjust and within two years we can start blaming them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamir: We should not expect them to perform miracles in a short time. Madam Chairperson, nobody is perfect, charity begins at home and so we need our councils to have the capacity to construct our roads. We do not want contractors from cities, we want our councils to be empowered as a way of job creation.

Madam Chairperson, the feeder roads need grading. The road leading to Chitambo Hospital is agony for the patients. The hospital needs staff and renovations. The market in Chitambo is not yet complete and so we are asking the Minister to work hard. We also wish the Minister for Central Province well.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamir: Madam Chairperson, we are asking the hon. Minister to please be checking physically on the implementers. You are being blamed here because what the implementers are doing there is wrong and so it is important that you continuously check on implementers. The district office and the office of the president must be expanded so that those who are doing wrong can have some fear.

Madam Chairperson, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Chairperson: Thank you very much for that brief and precise debate.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Madam Chairperson, I do not wish to dilute the contributions to the debate by my colleague from the Copperbelt. But first and foremost I would like to commend the Minister for the Copperbelt Province for not relenting in trying to unite us and especially on the good spirit that he has brought among the Members of Parliament from the Copperbelt. Madam Chairperson. I do not want to forget to send a message of condolences to the Minister of Lusaka Province (Mr Shawa) over the loss of his daughter.

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Mukanga brought up a lot of issues affecting the Copperbelt and as I have earlier said, I do not really want to dilute that wonderful debate.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to comment on one or two issues and one of them is to do with land. We have a problem on the Copperbelt when it comes to acquiring land. Plots are not easily acquired. The councils have become so corrupt that only very few people can walk into a council and apply for land and get it easily.

Madam Chairperson, I know we have an able hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing and we would want her to look into this problem. I would like to mention the suffering of our people when it comes to acquiring health services. The hospitals on the Copperbelt are in a mess. When we talk about the Kitwe Central Hospital within my constituency, you will discover that we have very few doctors and nurses. A few weeks ago when I was in Kitwe, I discovered that the Kitwe Central Hospital had been running for two months without an X-ray. Right now, I do not even know whether that X-ray has been repaired.

Madam Chairperson, how do you expect patients to get the best service from such an institution? Madam Chairperson, this Government has worked hard to get rid of queues in shops and bus stations but these have been transferred to hospitals. When you go to the low cost, you will discover that there is probably over 100 people queuing very early in the morning. What we want is to remove this slavery thing of having low and high cost, what we want is a system that will cater for our people whether poor or rich. What is happening in these institutions, you discover that the poor are not being looked after properly and are not being cared for. Even when they are admitted in hospitals go and see where they are sleeping. There are no medicines in these institutions.

I want to come to the hon. Minster of Mines and Mineral Development. I know my brother spoke about royalties. A few days ago, I was trying my level best to see how we could be able to play around with the mineral royalty percentage that we are receiving as a country. I am trying to emphasise on that one, hon. Minister, that we need a share on the Copperbelt. We need shares from the royalties that will be collected. You would want to make sure that is used to rehabilitate and bring back our townships to the state they were in when there were being run by ZCCM.

Mr Chimbaka: Hammer!

Mr Mwenya: Madam Chairperson, I would like again to touch on another sensitive issue and that has to do with the way we are looking after the police officers. In Kitwe, we have Mindolo Police Station. I have been a resident of Kitwe and at this Mindolo Police Station we have had officers who have stayed at this police station for over 15 years and they have been using pit latrines in a police camp. When you see their wives they foot on so much body, as if they are body builders because of travelling long distances to fetch water and the husbands are now complaining.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Mwenya: This is a police camp. In Kitwe, we have the oldest township, Buchi Kamitondo. This area has never seen a water boom toilet over 45 years. The people are now complaining because they have finished all the space around their houses to dig pit latrines. Now, they do not even know where to dig.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Laughter

Mr Mwenya: Madam Chairperson, when you look at the state of our streets and roads in the mining area despite contributing so much in terms of copper, all we are seeing is development in Lusaka. We want for the first time to start seeing development coming up on the Copperbelt. Our people were cheated that with the incoming of these investors we were going to see development, better roads, better health care and we are going to have job creation, but what is happening today is that our people are being enslaved. The investors who have come do not want to have any responsibility to do with these Zambian workers. What they have done is they have contracted contractors who have been given the responsibility of contracting our people and our people now are receiving slave wages. All the miners who are mining copper under ground, there is no single worker employed directly by Mopani, there all employed by contractors.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Mwenya: What we want is to have a system that is going to protect our people, a system from this Government to put pressure on these investors to make sure that our people are being given a survival wage a wage that they can take home so that their wives can be able to say, yes, we are proud our husbands are working. We can never solve the problem of people drinking kachasu as long as we do not give them a surviving wage.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: I can assure you, that you shall never change the status quo on the Copperbelt as long as this Government does not change its approach towards the Copperbelt. These days, when you go to Ndola Central Hospital the mortuary is filled with rats. People have to go with water to wash their dead, and yet, we are saying this Government has been performing and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is saying there is stability in the nation and economic growth in the country, when we are not able to see it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Mwenya: We have this issue of First Quantum. It has come and the hon. Minister of Mines and Mineral Development has been very quiet. We have been to see him and we do not seem to say anything at all, and yet, the policy of this Government is to empower Zambians and small-scale business men to grow. Now, the coming in of this Quantum, it means these small companies shall never enjoy. There is no way you can take small business men and make them to compete at the same level at international level.

Hon. Opposition Member: Lila, mwana, lila.

Mr Mwenya: No, this cannot happen at all. This Government ought to be serious.

Hon. Opposition Member: Mayo.

Mr Mwenya: We do not want, 2 years later, you come and bring an issue here to say we do not know what happened we have to protect our people. We have been cheated over this development agreement which have affected our people. Now, we have not benefited anything from the mines. This time we are saying, we are going to allow such a thing to happen.

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: I will be the first person to lead our people on the Copperbelt if this year is going to end without realising anything from the royalties. I will go there on the Copperbelt and ask the people to rise against this Government.

Madam Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order! Withdraw that. That would be unconstitutional.

Mr Mwenya: I withdraw that, but I will ask our people to protest against this Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Education when he presented his Policy Statement, the other day, I was very impressed because he touched on all areas affecting the education sector, but what I would want to see is the reality and implementation. We want to see improvement in the working conditions of the teachers. Teachers also need to start acquiring, accessing loans to build their own homes because this Government has failed to provide accommodation for them. We want the Ministry of Education to create more space. We want more children to be able to access Grade 9 and 12 and go to universities.

Madam Chairperson, I know, yes, building stadia is very important. I think the back bone of any nation is a sound education. Once a nation is educated then you know that this is a vibrant economically stable nation.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to see this Government build more universities in this country. I would like to see a university being constructed in Livingstone and another one in Lusaka, Copperbelt, Northern Province and Luapula.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member’s time has expired.

The Minister for Lusaka Province (Mr Shawa): Madam Chairperson, in the first place, I would like to thank all those that have debated on this Vote and I would also like to thank the Vice-President and Leader of Government business in this House for having given a policy statement on our behalf.

Madam, we have a challenge as Lusaka Province in monitoring, co-ordination, implementation of projects and evaluation, but at the same time, to keep law and order. I will dwell later on those that debated, especially, on Lusaka Province. Suffice to mention that as Lusaka Province, we would like to deliver equitable and balanced development in our four districts, that is, Kafue, Lusaka, Chongwe and Luangwa.

Madam Chairperson, we are only saddened that recently was adversely affected and it was not spared by the floods that affected the nation. A lot of infrastructure including roads and bridges were affected in many areas and also the floods affected food security. In any case, there has been nasty improvement in terms of development in infrastructure. Offices have been built. Houses, roads, bridges and colts have been constructed and completed. If people feel that these have not been completed, I will be able to take you round if you are so willing. We have seen excellent progress and positive results in health, education and agriculture.

Madam, in Lusaka Province, there is potential in tourism and mining. Therefore, we would like to appeal that the explorations continue because other mines have already started operating.

Madam Chairperson, we have a challenge right now in Lusaka Province and we would like to address the issue of environmental degradation with regard to charcoal burning. We would like to see that deforestation is addressed as quickly as possible otherwise we will have a desert and all of us will be affected. In this regard, we have started programmes of, for example, tree planting and bee keeping. A lot of people, especially in Chongwe area have been trained in bee keeping and also to ensure that they know how to use products from that project.

Madam, with regard to issues of youths, we only have two institutions. These are Kalingalinga and Chiota which need to empower the youths. These youths who are trained and these institutions are provided with materials to sustain their progress after their courses.

Madam Chairperson, in the area of street kids, we continue as Lusaka Province to work with Zambia National Service and take some of these for training in various skills.

Madam, as regards water, it is the policy of this Government, and indeed, Lusaka Province that we provide clean, safe and adequate water to our people. In this regard, boreholes in many areas have been sunk and also dams have been constructed. Where some dams were silted, these have also been de-silted. We would like to go into irrigation especially that the New Deal Administration has provided K37 billion towards irrigation and Lusaka Province would like to benefit from that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa: I would like to thank Hon. Mtonga, hon. Member of Parliament for Kanyama. I thank him for his soothing and encouraging words over the bereavement that we had in my family. I believe that you will also not doubt my positive attention to my duties. In normal circumstances, after such bereavement, I would have probably gone on fourteen days Compassionate Leave, but I am here working. This simply indicates that I have love and a heart to national duties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa: I would like to thank all the hon. Members of Parliament for their support spiritually, morally and materially. I am very grateful on behalf of my family.

Madam Chairperson, indeed, as an office, we will remain very open. We want to work in consultation with you as w have already started and I am very grateful that you have mentioned about this. We need peace, unity and love so that we develop our province.

Madam, we need to be accountable, transparent and inclusive. That is why we will not leave you behind in as far as development of the province is concerned. I wish to state that you should continue to visit to our offices. You should not wait to be invited for meetings. This is very important because at times, we wait until we are called for meetings.

On the issue of cholera, we have done quite a lot. In my previous debate, I mentioned what we have doing in Lusaka. Working with the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unity, chlorine is being provided in most of the areas which have been affected by cholera. Last time I mentioned that in the rural areas, Chongwe, Kafue and Luangwa did not have cholera cases, but only in Lusaka. All measures are being taken, and we are working together with the Ministry of Health to ensure that we ameliorate the sufferings of our people with regard to cholera.

As Lusaka Province administration, we are working with Lusaka City Council very seriously and we would like to clean Lusaka. Right now, we have issued an instruction that all business houses must be painted and we have given them a deadline. Failure to that, we will take drastic measures.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa: We are already cleaning and I am very proud of the corporate world and other ministries that have joined to improve and clean Lusaka vis a vis the planting of grass and flowers. We would like Lusaka to attain the status of a growing city.

Madam Chairperson, there is peace and tranquility in Lusaka now and I would like to commend the Ministry of Home Affairs for a commendable job. I would like to commend the Inspector General of Police, Mr Mateo, and Mr Wazakaza Ng’uni for doing a wonderful job. The crime rate has drastically gone down. This is what we are doing. The law will visit those people who are bringing havoc.

I wish to appeal to all hon. Members of Parliament and all the people to cooperate with the police. Where you have people of suspicious predisposition, please do not hesitate to report immediately to the police nearest to you.

Madam Chairperson, Mr Lubinda, is a very good debater. I thank him for his wonderful words, but some of the questions he was raising were answers. I want to mention here that if you had attended some of the meetings that my office called, you would have been cleared on some of the issues you raised…

Hon. Government Member: Forget abut him.

Mr Shawa: …and so I want to encourage you that we must continue to work together in as far as waste management is concerned. The Vice-President recently commissioned a project in Chingwere and we were together at that function with the hon. Jean Kapata. That facility is a state of the art sponsored by Danish International Development Aid (DANIDA) and so we are working to clean the city.

With regard to energy, we have a priority now to look at Luangwa. This is the only district in my province which is not connected to the main grid. Kafue, Chongwe and Lusaka are all benefiting from the electricity from the main grid and we are working very hard together with the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development that Luangwa should be attended too. As we connect Luangwa, most of the areas along the way in Rufunsa, will also be connected to the main grid.

In education, my province has done a lot, Madam Chairperson, to supplement the Ministry of Education. We have done a lot in rehabilitation of some schools and also procurement of desks, computers, stoves and other school requisites. We have contributed positively.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Tsumo.

Mr Muntanga crossed the Floor and sat between Hon. Namugala and Hon. Cifire.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, I will not concentrate on that, but that is a sign of eating well.

Laughter

Mr Shawa: When you sit on the chair, you can display people and if people are eating well and growing like that, we must commend the New Deal Administration.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Tsumo.

Mr Shawa: With these few remarks, I would like to say thank you very much for all the hon. Members who have contributed. We would like the budget to be supported.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Provincial Minister of Copperbelt Province (Mr Mbulakulima): Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

In the first place, I would like to acknowledge the congratulations from Hon. Mukanga and Hon. Mwenya on my appointment.

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Mukanga mentioned that issues of the Copperbelt are very close to his heart. I must also admit, as I said in my maiden speech, that having born in Mufulira, brought up in Kitwe, currently working in Ndola and always going to Chililabombwe Konkola Stadium to watch great Zambia, Copperbelt is very close to my heart. I must also thank Hon. Mukanga. I have come to know him as one person who likes discussing issues and not personalities and that is the way it is supposed to be.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: I must mention here that Copperbelt is a metropolitan province. Copperbelt is the most urbanised province in this country. It is important that we have Members of Parliament who are in intelligentsias. In my maiden speech, I made it very clear that in my administration, there is no space for confrontation. An urbanised province like Copperbelt, we need people who are going to think and do the right thing. I am happy that we are slowly building that team.

Hon. Mukanga raised a lot of issues concerning copper and the companies that are coming on the Copperbelt. Copperbelt is no longer the way it used to be and people of the Copperbelt want reality, title deeds and Members of Parliament. I must say that I think it is also important to give credit where it is due. This Government is on the right path. Not long ago, you all know that the mines were not operating the way they are doing today. Most of the mines were actually flooded with water, but during this session today, we have agreed why we should raise the royalty tax because we have all seen that the mines are actually operating effectively. We all agree that they are making profits. We cannot contradict ourselves by saying the mines are no longer the way they used to be. However, we also need to change that the days of Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) days are gone. Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) and Mopani Mine must also have their own identity.

I think, we should all agree is that there is prosperity on the Copperbelt. I am glad that Chingola and Chililabombwe have taken the initiative where they have engaged KCM in regard to construction and repair of roads in the townships. This is the way the investors are supposed to pay back. It is up to us to engage them in dialogue and I want to believe that they will respond.

I also want to respond that the role of hon. Members can not be doubted. I want to build a team on the Copperbelt and so I call upon you that we come together and work as a team. The programmes for 2007 are very aggressive. We talked about the rural electrification, sinking of bore-holes and rehabilitation of hospitals and schools. These are the projects that we are going to work on. Copperbelt is destined for prosperity.

The issue of agriculture is on the right course. We have good weather. Rains have been falling on the Copperbelt. I want to believe that we can move away from copper and make Copperbelt the main agriculture province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Hon. Mwenya raised a lot of issues, such as, the land acquiring difficulty and royalties. My Government is attending to all these issues. Where I do not agree with Hon. Mukanga and Mwenya is on the strength of PF. I want to assure them that come 2011, MMD will triumph.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: If we happen to have any by-election during this period, I can assure them that MMD is going to succeed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Madam Chairperson, I want to say to my colleagues who have spoken and indeed the silent majority that the province has been allocated less than what is expected because we all know that money is a scarce resource and indeed a limiting factor in the preparation of the budget. It is also important that we make it very clear.

If you recall when I debated on the issue of Ministry of Justice about the balancing act where everything or one political party was number one every time and listening to the debate, all hon. Members who stood to contribute all said that the money allocated to Ministry of Home Affairs, Ministry of Community Development and Social Services and Office of the Auditor-General were not enough However, the limiting factor in the preparation is money and this is not personal, corporate or national. That is why today we are talking about K12 trillion as a national budget and not K20 trillion, K30 trillion, K50 trillion or K200 trillion because money is a limiting factor in this regard.

I want to believe that as a province, we will endeavor to serious undertake the planned activities. The province is ready to take up the challenge of creating wealth and employment. Its prosperity in agriculture has a comparative advantage due to good weather, water resource and labour force. Given such advantages, the province has the potential to grow crops and rear livestock all year round. The province has a regular market within and outside the province as well as internationally.

Madam Chairperson, finally, I want to say that this Government has provided an enabling environment from which the Copperbelt has definitely benefited. In the recent past, the province has seen the mushrooming of a number of new industries. The new smelter at Mopani Copper Mines in Mufulira which will increase smelting capacity to one million metric tons, the opening of a Tata Zambia plant in Ndola and Zambezi Portland Cement Company, the construction of a smelter at Chambeshi and many more are a sign that the economy is definitely growing. I want to call upon my fellow hon. Members of Parliament, especially those from the Copperbelt, to come forward and build the province.

Madam Chairperson, I was warned and reminded by the wise men from the east that my speech must be as short as a mini-skirt but brief enough to cover the salient subjects. It is my sincere hope that I have covered enough and I, therefore, propose that you support the budget for the Copperbelt.

I thank you.

The Minister for Central Province (Mr Chisanga): To start with, I would like to thank all the hon. Members of Parliament for supporting the budget…

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Chisanga:…for Central province, especially the hon. Members from my province. I have taken note of all that has been said by Hon. Hamir. I want to tell the House that as was the case in the previous year, the development efforts this year will continue to address poverty reduction in vulnerable communities. In this vein, every effort will be made towards enhancing the efficiency of the program implementation at district level. I, therefore, implore the hon. Members of Parliament in this House to participate in the process of development in order to ensure attainment of our provincial vision in line with the national Vision 2030. This will ultimately impact positively on the standard of living of the people.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: That was brief and precise.

The Minister for Northern Province (Mr Chibombamilimo): Madam Speaker…

Laughter

Mr Chibombamilimo: Madam Chairperson, I stand to say a few words on the estimates of revenue and expenditure for Northern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: I want to say that my debate as a summariser may be different from what others have said and are going to say. I know that I am a bearer of a message from the people of Northern Province. Therefore, I do not want to leave any stone unturned and may not talk about most of the good things that the MMD New Deal administration has done but I want to talk about the problems that the province is facing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: I have said that I am messenger.

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order! Speak as a hon. minister.

 Mr Chibombamilimo: Hon. Chibamba said Northern Province has been the least fund for about 15-16 years and I want to agree with him that this is true. I want to also say that last year, most of the projects were funded but funds were not released.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Can you keep quiet. I am saying that most of the projects were funded but the sad part is that funds were not released and I hope that this year funds will be released so that most of the projects in the province should be done.

I also want to say that most of the roads in the province have actually been damaged because of heavy rains. I just hope that the Ministry of Works and Supply will do something so that the roads are worked on, especially that we are expecting a bumper harvest in terms of maize in Northern Province.

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Minister, debate as a hon. minister. If you are not yet ready, we will give you another opportunity.

Mr Chibombamilimo: I want to talk about the roads which have been extensively damaged. Bridges have also been washed away. I want to also mention that the Zambia Telecommunications (Zamtel) in Northern Province should improve the Internet services in all districts. In terms of cellular phones, we have no complaint.

Last year in 2005, the Zambia National Tourist Board launched the Northern Circuit, it is our sincere hope, therefore, as a province that more money will be released this year to open up tourist sites in Northern Province where we have six major waterfalls. One of which is the highly spectacular Lumangwe Water Falls nick-named the mini Victoria.

A number of schools also collapsed as a result of heavy rains and some roofs have been blown off especially in Mpulungu, Mpika, Kasama, Mporokoso, Chilubi and Isoka. I hope that the money will be found so that all these repairs

I also want to mention that there has not been allocation of funds for the Mbesuma Bridge which was funded last year.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order! I think that the Chair will guide the Hon. Deputy Minister. For now, you sit down until you prepare something that you are doing as a Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

The Chairperson: Before the Hon. Minister for Western Province stands I would like to dispense some advice.  Hon. Ministers, you are supposed to come with a written statement. You are allowed to read a statement of what your Government is doing and intends doing. You have to give answers to the hon. Members concerned.

The Minister for Western Province (Mr Mufalali): Thank you Madam Chair for giving me this opportunity to outline briefly the 2007 Budget for the Western Province. Let me thank also hon. Members who have talked about the Budget for the Western Province in particular.

Madam Chair, Lewanika Hospital Pharmacy was gutted by fire, but I am happy to report that we are now rehabilitating this pharmacy.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Mufalali: Madam Speaker, the Shangombo District Hospital is about to be completed.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Mufalali: This Government, Madam Chair, is considering building schools in my province. As you are aware

interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Continue.

Mr Mufalali: As you are aware Madam Chair, the Minister of Education, in his speech, has reiterated that Western Province will be given one high school for girls in Mongu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.

The Chairperson: Order! Do not listen to the noise speak to the Chair.

Mr Mufalali: I am glad with the programmes of Government in my province on roads such as the Kaoma Kasempa Road, the Luampa-Machila Road, the Kaoma-Lukulu Road, the Limulunga-Mongu Road, Mongu-Senanga Road and the famous Mongu-Kalabo Road.

Hon. Member: Tell them, tell them.

Mr Mufalali: Madam Chair, we are confident that the Senanga –Sesheke Road will be constructed in stage two off course building a bridge at Mbeta Island.

I am happy Madam Chair with the current animal disease control the Government is undertaking in my province. A cordon line has been built on the western border of our province.

Madam Chair, this year, heavy rains have resulted in heavy floods on the Barotse Plains which have damaged crops, livestock and infrastructure. Let me assure this august House that this Government will make sure that no one will starve and that the entire damaged infrastructure will be repaired.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Mufalali: To answer my sister on the question she raised

interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Can the Chair reign?

Mr Mufalali: Madam Chairperson, she raised a question on why the roads are not appearing in the 2007 Budget for Western Province

Hon. Members: Hear, hear

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mufalali:  This year, all programmes under PRP have been taken over by the Ministry and that is why they are not appearing in our Provincial Budget.

Therefore, Madam Chairperson, I end here.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear

The Minister for Eastern Province (Mr Nkhata): Thank you Madam Chair. I wish to thank all the hon. Members that have debated on the Budget for Eastern Province. 
The Government will ensure that most of the Members’ concerns are addressed amicably.

Madam Chair, allow me to say something on agriculture as everyone of us is aware that the backbone of the Eastern Province is agriculture. We wish to thank and commend the Government for giving us agriculture inputs in good time. Due to this timely distribution of farming inputs, the people of the Eastern Province will have enough food and surplus for sale from the 2006-2007 farming season. The Government should be commended.

I am aware that the state of our roads in Eastern Province is not very good. However, it is the wish of my Government that the resources will be made available to repair most of our roads in the province.

I am happy to mention, Madam Chair that my Government has made available twenty-three million Euros for the resurfacing of the Great East Road from Nyimba to Mwami Boarder. The Chipata Lundazi Road requires serious maintenance and my Government has allocated K2 billion to continue with the repairs of this road.

I am happy to mention also to this august House that my Government as allocated funds for the bridge construction on the Luangwa River in Chama District on the Chama-Matumbo Road. I know after the Budget, the Government will be able to release this money so that the bridge construction can commence.  

I would like to mention also that in Eastern Province we will not spare those of our brothers and sisters doing shoddy work during the construction of roads and buildings. We will make sure as Government that we supervise the works and some of those who will not be doing a correct job will have their contracts terminated.

Hon. Members: Quality!

Mr Nkhata: Allow me to say something on the health sector. Eastern Province has been privileged by the New Deal Administration under the leadership of His Excellency, the President, Levy Patrick Mwanawasa with the provision of K1.7 billion for the construction a new modern hospital in Chadiza District.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Therefore, we are looking forward to the completion of this project that has already commenced in the province. We are happy that an addition block at Nyimba Hospital has been constructed to conduct the X-rays. The same has been done for Lundazi on Lumenzi Mission Hospitals.

Madam Chairperson, let me say something on the water provision. The Government has sourced for some funds to drill about 900 new boreholes under Phase III which will commence this year after the finalisation of the financial agreement between the Government of the Republic of Zambia and the Germany Government. The 900 new water points will be distributed evenly throughout the province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: With regard to energy, Zambia is not only importing power from Malawi, it is also exporting power to other countries. It is not a new thing that we are importing power from Malawi because on the other hand the same Government is exporting power to other countries like Tanzania, Namibia and Botswana. If we import power from Malawi it is just like it is on exchange basis. They are our good neighbours. Therefore, we need to get power which is closer to us to help the people of Lundazi and other places. Of course, there are concerns like the ones raised by Hon. Chifumu Banda that in case we have problems with our neighbours, but we are doing everything possible so that we maintain our good relationship. However, that should not worry us because Zambians are good people.

In Eastern Province, we have the Chiwoko Training Camp under the Zambia National Service (ZNS) where we are taking our street kids for skills training. This project has been going on well. The first bunch of children that were trained at that place has finished and we hope to continue with the new team that has just come to Chiwoko Training Camp for our youths. This would not make us fail and we will continue.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to say something on Telecommunications. I think in this country, we are doing well because most of these new companies that have come like Celtel and MTN are all over in the province. They are even found in the remotest parts of our province especially as we heard towards Chama. We are mobile. So, communications is going on well in this province and believe that the few remaining areas like Msoro where people have not been connected will be connected soon since that is not a problem any more.

Mr Kambwili: Bakala fukama pakulanda naba pongoshi pa Cell phone

Mr Nkhata: Regarding the Chipata-Mchinji rail, we are very happy hon. Minister of Transport and Communications for making sure that the project is completed. We are happy and people are geared because the project is on course and we hope and believe that this year, according to the plan, this will finish.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Hon. V. Mwale raised concerns regarding the mines. I think we are in the pipeline, especially, in Petauke where mineral deposits of copper have been found. We believe that the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development will not just leave us like that, but something is going to be done so that this mine will soon open. We have hope because this Government is a working Government and will not fail to open this mine in Eastern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Madam Chairperson, the Government is determined to work hand in hand with the people in addressing those socio-economic problems. There is a clear manifestation of some improved activities taking place in the province which will continue to be kept course.

With these few remarks, I thank you.

The Minister for Luapula Province (Mr Chinyanta): I thank you, Madam Chairperson, for giving this opportunity to conclude the debate on the Vote for Luapula Province.

First of all, I would like to acknowledge the compliments that came from the Members of Parliament from Luapula Province. I feel very much encouraged and I would like to assure you that I will provide leadership that will bring development to our area so that at the end of the 5 years, we will make a difference in that area.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Luapula Province has a population of over 800,000 people and 80 per cent of that is poor. As a result, we have focused most of our programmes towards poverty reduction.

In that line, 60 per cent of our programmes in terms of the budget ceiling for our province has moved into that area. We have targeted areas that will bring better impact to our people so that the standard of living in Luapula Province can be uplifted.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Indeed, we would like to introduce new programmes in key economic areas that would bring growth to this province so that our people can start appreciating what the Government is doing for them.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Especially, looking at the areas which will tap the abundant natural resources that are found in our province such as the fishing industry, forestry and even mining which has stated coming up slowly.

Madam Chairperson, through the line ministries, my province will try to address the issues of health, education and agriculture. I would like to comment on the performance of the province, in 2006, I must say that the general performance of our province was satisfactory in that out of the budgeted amount for the province, 80 per cent of that was released. I would like to commend the Government for that. It is my prayer that even this year we are going to do even better than that. As a province, we opened up new areas in Matanda and Mansa resettlement areas where we have already allowed people to start cultivating. This is a way of encouraging people to get involved more into agriculture and diversify from what has been our main occupation in that area which has been fishing.

The out look for 2007 is that we will continue to do more in health and significant strides have been made in this area to provide quality health care to our people. We intend to construct a number of rural health centres and houses for our health workers so that they can become encouraged and see that the Government has actually been thinking for them. As a province, we will continue with the programme of HIV/AIDS which we cannot ignore as a province.

In order to combat poverty which I referred to at the beginning, we would like to focus our attention on agriculture. I am happy to report that the province has continued to make significant drops in terms of the number of crops that we are producing in our area. We hope to benefit more even this year from the Fertiliser Support Programme which I believe is a very good programme for this country. We also hope to improve on our marketing programme for our crops in the province.

Madam Chairperson, I am sure the Government has shown a lot of commitments in this area. We will address some of the concerns that were brought up by the hon. Members in this House. Looking at the Luena project, I want to assure you that I will put in all my effort to ensure that this project is not just on the drawing board but something that should start to bring tangible results to our people.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Madam, I want to mention that we will continue to deliver services to our people in as far as education is concerned. The challenge in this area is that we need to put a lot of infrastructure. Government has shown commitment to do more in this area. I am happy to report that three high schools will be constructed this year in Nerenge, Mwense and Chienge. This is a commendable job.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Madam, the issue of road infrastructure was meant to be a challenge in our province. My appeal is that whatever allocation of money given to us should be put to good use. I want to call upon the hon. Members of this House, especially those from Luapula to take keen interest in this area so that we make good use of whatever has been given to us.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: The people of Luapula are very expectant to see the road works in this province start, especially, the Chembe Bridge, which I am happy to report that the Government has started working on it. I am very sure that even the other areas that were raised on this Floor will actually be attended to like the Kashikishi/Lunchinda Road.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta:  Madam Chairperson, we also look forward to improve on our infrastructure in this area. As the province, we are embarking on working on our infrastructure by improving facilities on a Mansa Airdrome by building a control tour and cleaning the runways. This, I believe will help some of the tourists come to Luapula.

Madam Chairperson, in terms of mining, there is an increase in activities in small scale mining in Luapula, especially, in Chienge. I want to take this challenge to urge the Ministry of Mines and Minerals to start encouraging the large scale miners to also look at Luapula although they have already opened one in North Western Province.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Madam Chairperson, the water sector is still worrisome in my province. My people are failing to access mineral water despite the abundant water in that area. I am sure that this Budget has provided boreholes for Luapula Province. I want to indicate that one of our co-operating partners (JICA) has already started drilling some boreholes in some parts of Luapula Province.

Madam Chairperson, through this Budget, we will continue to encourage and support many other programmes such as bee keeping, canal maintenance and forestry so that our people can actually appreciate what we are doing for them in our province.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, I would like to submit that we have a challenge in our province. I want to ensure that we live up to what we are facing through this Budget which we are passing this morning. I therefore, urge hon. Members of this House to support this vote for Luapula Province.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister for North-Western Province (Mr Chipungu): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to wind up the debate on the Budget for North-Western Province, the sleeping giant.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam, I wish to thank His Excellency the President, Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for sending me to work in North-Western Province. In fact, this is my home area and province.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Can we please lower our voices. The Chair cannot hear properly.

Mr Chipungu: Madam Chairperson, before I went to North-Western Province, I was not very sure about development there. To the contrary of what had been said by the previous speakers in terms of development in North-Western Province, I now want to report to this House that it is one of the provinces that are well developed.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank all hon. Members for the support they have given to this Budget. May I also thank the Permanent Secretary, his members of staff and all the provincial heads for coming up with a very good Budget. I would also thank them for indeed, working very hard for the development of the province.

Madam Chairperson, I also wish to thank the hon. Members from North-Western Province for the support, especially, Teta,…

Mr Tetamashimba: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: … given to me so far. I am enjoying the relationship. May I now pay tribute to the speakers on this vote. Hon. Kakoma has made a list of complaints, amongst them, poor roads and so on. I will be able to answer this in the due course. I wish to commend my brother, Hon. Tetamashimba in this House for educating me so well. It is very true that I got all his words.

Hon. Government Members: We mean well!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Chairperson, this time around, North-Western Province has done very well under this New Administration. I want to give you some of the examples about the development that is taking place. For instance in Solwezi, we are constructing a modern market, renovating the Solwezi Stadium and we are maintaining all the roads in the township. In all the districts, the roads are being worked on. We are renovating and constructing the schools and the health centres. We are doing the maintenance of the roads, for instance, the M8 road, Manyinga/Mwinilunga Road, Solwezi/Kipushi Road and a number of feeder roads.

Madam Chairperson, the province is also doing very well in mining. I want to talk about the Kansanshi and Lumwana Mines. Recently, there is a mine that has come up in Chief Mushima’s place and many other places in Zambia. We have through out the districts boreholes and water wells being drilled. We have also done the Bill of Quantity for a culture village and very shortly, it will be under construction. We also have a number of youth skills training centres under the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development. We have one in Solwezi, Mufumbwe and so on.

Madam Chairperson, with regards to telecommunications, the whole province is connected to Zamtel, Celtel and MTN. What else can people want?

Interruptions

Mr Chipungu: Madam Chairperson, I am happy to say that North Western Province has potential in tourism. Zambia National Tourist Board have agreed to come and set up an office in order to tap the potential in tourism.

Madam Chairperson, I want to assure the House that this listening Government is addressing all the concerns that have been raised, including the re-construction of the infrastructure that was destroyed after the floods. Therefore I would like to invite all Members of Parliament from North-Western Province to work as a team. Be free to approach my office or the office of the Permanent secretary to see the projects that are taking place in your Constituency.

Hon Members of Parliament must take advantage to visit their constituencies when they hear that the Head of State, a Minister or any other VIP is visiting their constituencies.

Hon Members of Parliament: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: It is much easier for them to lobby for development in their constituencies. I was so disappointed with one hon. Member of Parliament. Despite being told to go to his constituency because His Excellency the President was going there, did not go there. Who are you going to blame? It was very embarrassing for the villagers to ask the whereabouts of the Member of Parliament from the President. How can this be?

Hon Member of Parliament: Shame.

Mr Chipungu: I would like to encourage my colleagues to attend meetings when called for. Recently we had a meeting for all Members of Parliament…

Hon. Member of Parliament: They lose nothing.

Mr Chipungu: They are twelve, but only ten came, two did not come. How will you know the development taking place in your constituency, if you shun the Office of the Provincial Administrator? I think this is not fair.

I thank you, Madam

The Minister for Southern Province (Mr Mulyata): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving this chance to windup debate on Southern Province. From the onset, you can see in the House that I am the only Provincial Minister who has not been complimented by the Members of Parliament from my area. The others, when they stand up, they are thanking their Minister, it is only me. Members of Parliament take note of that.

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: I want you to see what kind of a situation I have found myself in.

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: I want to thank the President of the Republic of Zambia for putting me in Southern Province because when there is a problem, we should sort it out. We are all Zambians and when we talk about development, let us talk about development for the whole nation. Members of Parliament talk about development for their constituencies, as a Provincial Minister I will talk about development of the whole Province.  Therefore, if you do not know what is happening in another constituency, then please come and ask us, we shall tell you.

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: I want to go straight away to where Hon. Major Chizhyuka said the President talked about Hon. Gary Nkombo over the mine in Mazabuka. If you do not have facts can you please consult. The President did not say that Mr Gary Nkombo was blocking development. There was a meeting in Mazabuka to ask the councilors whether that project should go on or not and they voted. Six councilors did not vote for that project. They said no. When the President went to the meeting, he did not mention the name of Hon Gary Nkombo. How can to day…

Interruptions

 Mr Mulyata: …Hon. Major Chizhyuka say that the President talked about Gary Nkombo. In this House, let us talk about facts. We are talking about the Gwembe people who were misplaced because of the dam and that they were not provided for. 

This Miner, Albidon has done wonders because we do not want a repeat of what happened in Gwembe. He has built houses for the people, if you have one house and one hut for your children; he has given you a big house and almost four houses for your children. I have been there physically, how can you condemn that kind of development? And you say you do not want that kind of development. When the President said ‘go to hell’ you say he talked about Gary Nkombo.

Interruptions

Madam Chairperson, we want to state facts. Right now, all the hon. Members of Parliament of Southern Province keep talking about Gwembe people. The Kariba Dam was done and we are supplying electricity to the whole country, what have we taken? You are complaining because those people were not compensated accordingly while the mine in Mazabuka, only a few minutes drive, before even taking nickel from there, he has started giving those people, some of whom have never dreamed that they will leave or build the kind of houses they have got. Instead of you the hon. Members supporting it, you are condemning it.

Madam Chairperson: Honourable, speak through the Chair.

Mr Mulyata: It is very unfair. Let us talk about facts and let us speak the truth. We have been told…

Hon Member of Parliament: Water.

Mr Mulyata: I do not need it…

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: We have been told in this House, and mind you some of us are coming to this House for the first time. Do not teach us bad manners, we want to debate…

Madam Chairperson: Order!

You speak through the Chair.

Mr Mulyata: Madam Chairperson, some of us are coming to this House for the first time and we want to know the truth about what goes on in this House. To start talking about things that are not there is very shameful. People might think this is how this House is.

When we talk about development in this House, we say miners have not done this and that, who told you that when Zambia privatised, we did it for foreigners? The minerals have been there with us, why do you Zambians, not do the mining? Who told you that the job is only to supply to the mines? It is our job as the Government to provide conditions that are conducive for you to be businessmen. So what are you talking about?

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: Madam Chairperson, in Southern Province we have statutory stocking. As the Government we have spent about three billion. The only province where statutory stocking started was Southern Province and none of those Members of Parliament is appreciating it. We have animals in Western Province, normally we had cattle re-stocking. Why do you not appreciate good things? Now, we are being told from the Yellow Book that the Bottom has been given some money. I have not heard anyone supporting this money that has been given for the Bottom Road. All you want to do is condemn.

Madam Chairperson, Zambia is about nine provinces…

Hon Members of Parliament: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata…if one province thinks that they can stay on their own, fine, there is no problem.

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: We are not going to develop this country in piecemeal. We must talk about development everywhere.

Interruptions

Mr Mulyata: Madam Chairperson, we have drilled many boreholes in Southern Province. This is an ongoing programme. Almost twenty-five boreholes have been drilled and…

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Order! Can you sit down?

Interruptions

Major Chizhyuka, Mr Hachipuka, Mr Muntanga and Mr Matongo stood up.

The Chairperson: Order! Order! I am on my feet and you are supposed to be down.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Order!

Major Chizhyuka interjected.

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Member! I am on the Floor.

Hon. Members we have come this far. Let us continue to debate in harmony.  The guidance that I am giving the House is that please, listen to the Chair. When the Chair says that “debate through me”, it has to be through the Chair, then, you are protected by the Chair. If you choose to go directly to other hon. Members, then you risk those hon. Members also responding to you. Can the hon. Minister, please, relax and speak through the Chair.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka, Mr Muntanga, Mr Matongo and Mr Hachipuka still on their feet.

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, can you take your seats or are we all presiding?

Major Chizhyuka, Mr Muntanga, Mr Matongo and Mr Hachipuka took their seats.

The Chairperson: When the presiding officer makes a ruling, it is done. There is no way we are going to allow exchanging of words between the Chair and hon. Members because the Chair is here to maintain order. Sometimes, when the Chair is carrying out her responsibility, you may not be happy, but the purpose is to keep order the House. I do not think that the statement made is a session. You do not cut off other people. Therefore, that is not the session. The expression is Zambian. I think as we use English, we also use it in our own Zambian style. Therefore, the ruling is done and let the hon. Minister continue bearing in mind every concern and the Chair’s guidance.

Mr Mulyata: Madam Chairperson, I want to inform this House that Southern Province is the only province, which ZAMTEL digitalised in all the districts and it is an ongoing programme. Apart from that, this province is also a tourist destination, there are a lot of developments going on, a lot of lodges are being belt and hotels are coming to the province. All this is happening because the Government has brought in conducive environment for the people to do this kind of business.

Madam Chairperson, I rest my case.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I thank you once again at this late hour of this morning for allowing me to say a few words after this long debate.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, in thanking you and through you, I would like to thank the twenty-six hon. Members of this House who have made contributions to this debate.

I was surprised that my brother and colleague Hon. Muntanga had not had a change to speak earlier. We missed you so much when you were out of the country. When the three of you stood up, I thought you were going to speak, but you did not get a chance to speak because you like this kind of debate. Not so?  I am sure you would have debated and very well too.

Mr Muntanga laughed.

The Vice-President: Once again, I would like to thank all hon. Members especially, those that have congratulated you, Madam Chairperson, your staff and those that have personally congratulated me.

Really, I hope that we have expressed ourselves. Perhaps, this is the building of democracy and that we all have our own opinions, but at the end of the day, in summary, one hears, one thinks. That is to say that we have agreed that there is need for development, not today, but yesterday. It also means that all of us, in different ways, have expressed the desire that development in our various constituencies should be enhanced.

After so many hon. Members have spoken, it is clear that we have agreed, which way, how to proceed and that we need more development in order to provide more employment to the people of Zambia. We all need the good things that the Government should provide such as good schools, teachers, equipped hospitals, nurses and doctors. We also need our roads to be fixed and bridges to be mended. We also need our own homes to be repaired and painted. We need a good environment in order to enjoy our country. I therefore, see no problem whatsoever, in the disagreement, which may appear to have surfaced during this discussion because it is normal.

We as a Government and on the other side, we have the Opposition. We have to oppose and show that the Government has not done enough. This reminds me of a very interesting story and encounter I had. My friend V. J. Mwaanga, knows whom I am talking about. I am also sure that many of you know Hon. Aleke Banda, a very prominent Member of Parliament and Minister for many years. Perhaps, he is equivalent to Mr Mwaanga in Malawi.

During their debates to change the Government as was the case here when the MMD came to change the Government from the long standing Government of UNIP, in Malawi, there was Dr Banda’s Congress Party.

Mr Lubinda in his seat: On a point of order, Madam.

Laughter

The Vice-President: I know that it is a bit late now and we are all under different influences.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I was saying that when the change was taking place, I had driven to go and see Hon. Aleke Banda at his home in Nkhata Bay. To me, as a Zambian, the road was so impressive through the hills and forest right up to his home. I found him in the middle of his campaign. He was campaigning to be a Member of Parliament for the new DEF. It was then, like the equivalent to the MMD.

When I got there, I found him with a lot of people and he was busy telling them something, but I did not know what he was telling them. In the process, I made a mistake and told him that “What a wonderful road network you have got.” He said “achimwene,” have you not seen that I am telling these people that they have done nothing,…

Laughter

The Vice-President:…but, you are coming to tell me that the roads are so good. You will spoil my campaign.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Therefore, this is normal politics. We will not stop that and it has to go on. What I would like to ask everyone is that, in spite of all that let us all get ready to adopt this budget for all the provinces as quickly as we can, because we do not want to delay any further. I know that many of our colleagues may not be able to travel today because they will need to rest a bit. I have seen all the correspondence that you have sent that you would like to stay for a day to rest before you get on the road. We do not want to have any one of us hurt if we get tired. All the same, I hope that we should agree to conclude as quickly as possible. We have discussed over the last three months effectively and I think we agree that we want to go now.

May I once again thank all hon. Members and the Provincial Ministers for all that they have said with regards to their provinces. We need to proceed to work very hard particularly after concluding debate on the estimates. Our country has gone through a lot of problems as a result of the floods and drought that we, hon. Members of Parliament here, both Front Bench, as well as the Opposition parties must hold hands and see that our country is put back on the rail. Our people all over Zambia must go back to their normal lives, to school, work, farms etc, and they cannot do that if we delay any further.

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, I would like to thank you for the wonderful guidance we have had this evening for cooling us down when we were upset with the manner in which we were addressing each other, but I am sure that we will still remain very good friends. As soon as we finish here and go outside, you would be surprised that we will be shaking hands again as hon. Members of this Parliament.

I thank you so much and call upon you to please, assist us in adopting this budget particularly for the provinces as quickly as possible.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 90/01 – (Office of the President –Lusaka Province – Headquarters – K8,628,247,337)

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 9, Activity 03 – Providing High School Requisites – K400,000,000, There is a provision of K400 million and yet last year it was K860,541,700 million. Could the Hon. Minister tell us why it has dropped? Are there not going to be any more school requisites?

The Minister for Lusaka Province (Mr Shawa): Madam Chairperson, this sum of money will enable the Government to procure modern school requisites such as laboratory equipment and computers.

The Chairperson: Why the drop?

Mr Shawa: There is no drop, Madam Chairperson.

Interruptions

Mr Shawa: In fact we bought some last year.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Chairperson, may I also seek clarification on Programme 9, Activity 01 – Providing Basic School Desks – K253,271,250, last year we had K1 billion but it has dropped to K253 million and Activity 02 – Providing School Desks to High Schools – K193,875,000, last year we had K1 billion but it has dropped to K193 million. I want to find out why the drop because we still have more than 50 per cent of schools without desks.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, we would like to procure more desks in schools for Lusaka Province, but the reduction is because of the rehabilitation programme. We are now rehabilitating more desks other than procuring.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 90/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/08 – (Office of the President – Lusaka Province – Roads Department – K709,116,000)

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2, Activity 01 – Management Coordination - Nil, with your person, Programme 7, Activity 01 Feeder Road Rehabilitation/Construction – Nil. Last year this House allocated K323,778,252 for Management and Coordination and yet this year, there is totally nothing not even K1.00 has been allocated for Management and Coordination and yet there is provision of K709,000,116 for salaries. I would like to find out why are staff going to be paid without them being allocated any money whatsoever for administration. What work will they conduct without any money for administration and yet for all other Vote…

The Chairperson: You have asked your question. I think it is clear.

Laughter

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, none allocation is due to transfer the activity to Road Development Agency which has now been formed. And so, there will be a shift of activities to that department.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 90/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/09 − (Office of the President − Lusaka Province − Buildings Department − K1,936,375,379).

Dr Machungwa: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 02, State Functions and Ceremonies  − K9,400,000, I would like to know what state functions are at Buildings Department.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 02, State Functions and Ceremonies − K9,400,000, the sum of money shall be used to facilitate State Functions and Ceremonies and the decrease in the allocation is due to separation of activities,

As you may be aware, there are various functions that the Buildings Department undertakes. They prepare the podium where meetings are going to be addressed and other things.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 90/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/16 − (Office of the President −Lusaka Province − Forestry Department − K955,941,803)

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 9, Activity 01 − Promote Value Addition to Forestry Products − K2,800,000, I would like clarification on this amount.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 9, Activity 01 − Promote Value Addition to Forestry Products − K2,800,000, this amount shall be used to pay allowances, purchase of fuel etc. on the control of exports for timber.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 90/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/19 − (Office of the President − Lusaka Province − Water Affairs Department − K1,253,772,737)

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 8, Activity 01, Rehabilitation of Dams − K204,078,418, may the hon. Minister inform us which dams will be rehabilitated in Lusaka for this amount.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 8, Activity 01, Rehabilitation of Dams − K204,078,418, this amount will be used to rehabilitate already existing dams in Lusaka Province. The money will be used for allowances, fuel, maintenance of vehicles and civil works. The increase is to facilitate for more dams.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Minister, the question is on the rehabilitation of dams. Can you give us the answer, please, and note that there is no increase there.

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, while we appreciate that this is an activity budget, the item which Hon. Lubinda is asking for, specifically indicates the activity. The names of the dams will be provided at the office and like the Minister pleaded, let him go and check and the names will be provided, they cannot be in the budget.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 90/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/41 ─ (Office of the President ─ Lusaka Province ─ Youth Development Department ─ K253,299,999)

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 5, Activity 02 – Youth Skills Training – K8,600,000, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what youth training shall be conducted in Lusaka Province for only K8,600,000.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, this sum of money shall be used by the youth training institutions to provide the needed tools. Hence, I did mention that after completing these skills at Kalingalinga and Chiota training centres, they are provided with basic skills to help them settle after their courses.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 90/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/46 ─ (Office of the President – Lusaka Province ─ Town and Country Planning Department ─ K323,792,355)

Mr Lubinda indicated.

The Chairperson: Mr Lubinda, are you serious? Hon. Member, we have to move.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, I would not rise if I was not serious. I am serious that I would like to find out with your permission. May I have clarification on Sub-head 1, Programme 8, Activity 02 – Sensitisation on Squatter Upgrading – K11,700,000, why in a year when there is so much problem with squatter compounds that there is only an allocation of K11,700,000 for sensitisation on squatter upgrading.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, this money will be used to sensitise the orderly development of timesheets. This is an on going programme and due to enhancement of sensitisation visits in various districts such as Luangwa, Kafue and Chongwe. This amount for now is adequate.

The Chairperson: As many as of that opinion say Ayes…

Hon. Members: Ayes.

The Chairperson: …of the contrary say noes.

Mr Lubinda: Noes.

Madam Chairperson: Hon. Lubinda, we will send you out. Can we have order, please?

Vote 90/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 91/01 – (Office of the President – Copperbelt Province – Headquarters – K7,065,312,373).

Ms Phiri: (Luanshya): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 21, Activity 03 – Construction of Staff Houses for Provincial Staff – K1,299,226,616. How many houses are we going to build and where?

Mr Mbulakulima: Madam Chairperson, on Programme 21, Activity 03 – Construction of Staff Houses for Provincial Staff – K1,299,226,616, first of all, construction of Government houses has been necessitated by the fact that Government houses were sold. Therefore, there is need for us to construct more. These will be done across the province. There are about ten houses which will be constructed across the province.

I thank you, Madam

Vote 91/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 91/19 – (Office of the President – Copperbelt Province – Water Affairs Department – K1,681,330,111).

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 8, Activity 07 – Mufulira – Construction of 2No. Dams and Drilling of Boreholes – K40,000,000. I would like to know how many boreholes will be drilled after two dams have been constructed from this amount.

Mr Mbulakulima: Madam Chairperson, on Programme 8, Activity 07 – Mufurila – Construction of 2No. Dams and Drilling of Boreholes – K40,000,000, this an Activity Based Budget. Last year, we were allocated K40 million and this year, we have been given the same amount. Therefore, it is an on-going exercise.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 91/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 91/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/45 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/19 ordered to stand part of estimates.

VOTE 92/23 ─ (Office of the President – Central Province – Labour and Factories Department – K350,100,352).

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Chairperson, on page 1233, programme 8, activity 01 – Employment Service – K7,000,000, can we have details as to what are these employment services.

The Minister for Central Province (Mr Chisanga): This new provision will carter for new recruitment conditions in companies.

I thank you.

Vote 92/23 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/24 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/25 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/35 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/36 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/37 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/40 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/41 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/42 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/43 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/44 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/45 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/46 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/48 ordered to stand part of estimates.

VOTE 92/49 – (Office of the President – Central Province – Provincial Planning Unit – K220,448,239).

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Chairperson, this being an activity based budget, I would like to find out on page 1249, programme 2, activity 02 – Holding of the PDCC Meeting, last year there was K11 million but this year there is nothing. I want find out why there is no allocation.

I thank you.

Mr Chisanga: Madam Chairperson, this provision will be used for payment of goods and services.

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, page 1249, programme 2 – General Administration, activity 02 – Holding of the PDCC Meeting.

Mr Chisanga left the microphone on.

The Chairperson: Please switch-off that microphone.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Madam Chairperson, the provision is under programme 2, activity 06 – Facilitation of Meeting – K23,565,891, so we have left out the PDCC.

I thank you.

Vote 92/49 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/51 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/52 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 93/40 – (Office of the President – Northern Province – Community Development Department - K2,189,927,660).

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Thank you Madam Chair. I would like to seek clarification on page 1270 Programme 1, Activity 02, Salaries Division II – K1,306,306472. Last year, we had K172 million. This year the provision is for K1.3 billion. I wanted to find out what has prompted that increase because I know that even salaries are at 16 per cent increment for civil servants.

Mr Chibombamilimo: This amount is required to pay salaries to Division II Officers. The increase is due to new positions and upgrading after restructuring. I hope it is clear.

I thank you, Madam.

Vote 93/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/56 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/01 – (Western Province – Headquarters – K4,805,801,820)

Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Sub-head 01, Programmes 15 – Animal Disease Control – (PRP)- K20,000,000, 16 – Livestock Development – K20,000,000 and 17 – Monitoring and Evaluation of PRP Projects – (PRP) – K300,000,000.

This has to do with animal disease control and livestock development. We have problems in Western Province and I would like to find out why there is a dramatic reduction from K334 million to only K20,000,000 and for livestock development from K570 million last year to only K20,000,000 when we have disease problems for our animals.

The Minister of Western Province (Mufalali): The decrease is due to the reallocation of funds to other programmes.

I hope I am right.

Mr Tetamashimba: Do not hope. Just be right.

Laughter

Mr Singombe (Dundumwenzi): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2, Activity 04 – Barotse Royal Treaty Obligation – K70,000,000.

May I know what this treaty obligation is? Last year there was an allocation of K60,000,000.

Mr Mufalali: Madam Chairperson, the provision is for the payment of allowances, purchases of goods and services for the office of the interpreter to disseminate Government Policies to the province and to implement and inspect Government projects …

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: I am going on.

Hon. Members: No!

Mr Mufalali: … coordinate and control of all the departments of the province to meet …

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: … to pay

The Chairperson: Order! You are not giving us the answer.

Mr Mufalali: The grants …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Vote 94/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/08 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Roads Department – K579,515,167).

Dr Machungwa: Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Sub-head 2 - Activity 01 because there is no allocation. Will there be no administration in the Roads Department?

Mr Mufalali: Inaudible

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 94/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/18 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Survey Department – K258,120,384)

Mr Mukanga: Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Sub-head 1 – Activity 01 because last year we had K12,063,593 and this year, there is nothing. Has there been any rightsizing or downsizing in this category of employees?

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Madam Chairperson, there was no provision in Salaries Division 1.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: That is the question. Why is there no provision?

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, in a situation like this, it simply means that the position of the senior officer has not been filled. It is vacant that is why we have not provided for that and surveyors are quite difficult to get.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 94/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 94/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 94/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 95/01 (Office of the President-Eastern Province-Headquarters-K 27,538,995,599)

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 12-School Provisions. Last year, they were combined and there was K700,000,000 budgeted for this but this year, there is nothing. I would like to find out from the Minister why there is nothing, considering that there is also nothing for rehabilitation of desks.

Secondly, I seek clarification on Programme 13, Activity 01-Rehabilitation of High Schools. Last year, there was K376, 945,701 and this year there is nothing, I would like to find out why.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Nkhata: Madam Chairperson, on Programme 12-School Provisions, there is no programme for the rehabilitation of projects because that is taken care of by the Ministry of Education and that is why there is nothing there.

I thank you, Madam.

Vote 95/01 ordered to stand part of Estimates.

Vote 95/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 95/17 - (Office of the President – Eastern Province – Lands Department – K216,699,346).

Dr Njobvu (Milanzi): Madam Chairperson, clarification on Programme 2, Activity 2 – Revenue Collection – 11,400,000. Last year, the allocation was K278,500,760, but now, it has dropped to K11,400,000. May I have clarification on this adjustment?

Mr Nkhata: Madam Chairperson, this amount is required to pay for fuel and allowances to officers collecting revenue. The reduction is due to a motor vehicle which was purchased last year and none will be bought this year.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 95/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/44 ordered to stand part or the Estimates.

Vote 95/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 95/49 – (Office of the President - Eastern Province – Planning Unit – K599,948,271).

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 8, Activity 01 – Project Monitoring and Evaluation – K96,890,000. Last year we had K384,975,000 million for Project Monitoring and Evaluation but that has reduced to K96,890,000 million. What has led to the reduction?

Mr Nkhata: Madam Chairperson, this amount is required to pay for accommodation, fuel and allowances during the provincial, district and committee meetings.

Interruptions

Hon. Members: Aah! Why the reduction.

Mr Nkhata: The reduction is due to reduced number of activities and programmes.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 95/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Mr F. R. Tembo (Nyimba): Madam Chairperson, …

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, you will not change the total it is already too late.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 96/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 96/44 −(Office of the President −Luapula Province −Provincial Local Government Office − K706,165,036).

Mr D. Mwila: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 02 − Chiefs Support − K330,000,000, I would like to know why this amount has gone up. Last year it was K43,750,000.

Mr Chinyanta: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 02 − Chiefs Support − K330,000,000, this amount is for general administration and the increase is due to high operation costs.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 96/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates
.
Vote 96/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 97/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/45 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 99/01 – (Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure ─ (K1,082,033,544,070).

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, once again, I have the honour to present to this august House the 2007 budget estimates for Head 99 – Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure.

Madam Chairperson, Head 99 is administered by my ministry as part of its overall objective to, and I quote:

‘Effectively and efficiently co-ordinate national planning and economic management, mobilise and manage public financial and economic resources in a transparent and accountable manner for sustainable national development and well being of the Zambian people’.

Madam Chairperson, the vote for Head 99 is used to facilitate both external and domestic debt service payments for constitutional posts as well as holding allocations for Civil Service salary and wage adjustment and an allocation for contingency, which is for unforeseen eventualities.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to remind this august House that the development programmes that are in the budget are partially financed in part using domestic and external borrowing. The Government is, however, committed to manage the borrowing so that the Government is able to meet all its financial obligations as they fall due and at the lowest possible costs. In this regard, my ministry is in the process of finalising its debt policy document as part of its reform process to review the legal and institutional frameworks for debt contraction and management. It is expected that these reforms will result in a framework that will explicitly define the authority and process of contracting debt and undertaking financial transactions on behalf of the Zambian people and the Government. The new arrangements will also address several aspects of public debts and will serve as a general guide on how contingent liabilities on lending and sub-national debts will be handled. New financing strategies will focus on concessional loans and the acquisition of grants to fund projects and programmes in growth sectors of the economy as defined in the Fifth National Development Plan.

Madam Chairperson, as clearly indicated in the estimates book, the numbers there indicate where indeed we are going to spend the money and, therefore, I expect the hon. Members in this august House to give support to this vote.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Member: Tiye mudala. Quality.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Chairperson, although it is unfortunate that this subject is coming at this time, but it is a very important subject because it deals with the loan contraction process. I think there are some anomalies in the way we have arranged the loan contraction process. Let us remind ourselves, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Member: Quality.

Mr Milupi: In 1964, when we got independence, this country was virtually debt free. However, because of various issues which we have tackled on other days, we found that towards of the beginning of the 1970s, because of the oil crisis especially in 1973 coupled with the diminishing of falling copper prices, this country began to be in serious problems and to address them, we began to contract debts. As we all know, this rose to the tremendous levels of US$7.2 billion and in no time at all, we were running all over the place seeking to qualify for Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC).

Madam Chairperson, the reason why I have decided to rise is because of qualification for HIPC, we have had this debt forgiven. There in lies the danger and the danger is if we are not careful as a nation, in no time at all, we can go back to the situation where we found ourselves and the reason for this is very straightforward.

There is a structural problem in the way we contract debts. This country has three wings in terms of the governance of this country, that is, the executive, legislature and indeed the judiciary. There are many things that come to the legislature for approval including appointments of certain constitutional office bearers. The budget estimates come here and we have spent all these weeks debating the budget for 2007. What are we talking about? We are talking about K12 trillion and that is equivalent to about US$3 billion.

Madam Chairperson, I talk about structural problems in that in terms of contracting debt for this nation, it is left entirely to the Executive. The people’s representatives, that is, the hon. Members in this House, do not have a structured role in terms of contracting back-benchers.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: That is where we have serious problems in this country. The Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is mandated to contract debt on behalf of this nation. Right now, we have a hon. Member in this position who is highly respected. The nation, however, will not always be that lucky. If we look at the loans that we contracted in the past, there are no records of how much debt we contracted, how much has been paid, how much debt we still owe or indeed how those loans were used. This is not only a problem for Zambia, it is a problem…

Interruptions 

Mr Milupi: It is a problem for the heavy indebted poor countries that are contracting these loans. These are countries in Africa and the Caribbean. This is also becoming a problem for the countries that give loans. This is why we have come up with what is called Illegitimate Loans. In the world today, there are loans that are obtained but not used for the intended purpose. There are also loans that are not given in good faith by lending nations. I will give an example of loans that Norway gave to African and Caribbean nations. The reason that this country gave these loans was because their ship building industry was in serious trouble. What Norway did was to give loans to a group of countries that would then use the same loans to buy ships from Norway. This is a true story. Subsequently, because of pressure from the civil society movement in both the borrowing and the lending nations, these loans had to be declared as illegitimate.

We have to work as a nation on the structural weakness of debt contracting so that the people’s representatives here have the ability to check on loans before the Executive contracts them. If we do that, some loans will be termed as illegitimate right from the beginning and the contract will not go through.

The last example I want to give, as time is not with us, is that in Ghana around December last year, a big loan was about to be contracted from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and because they had just changed the law, the loan had to go through the Ghanaian parliament. It was there, through debate like this, that it was subsequently discovered that this IMF was not the actually IMF that so many people know about. It was another organisation that was just using those initials. This resulted in the Ghanaian parliament stopping that loan.

Madam Chairperson, what I am saying this morning is that we must have a Parliament that looks seriously at the structure of contracting debt for this nation if we are to avoid the going back into the serious situation we found ourselves in when our sovereignty was threatened.

I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!  

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank the hon. Members for supporting my proposal. As it has been clearly indicated by Hon. Milupi, we are going to be very careful so that we do not end up in the same position. Of course, we believe that this is dependent on the Government in place. As he has indicated, there are loans that we call, not illegal, but Obvious Loans. These are loans that were given to some countries and governments on the basis of other considerations and not on economic basis. I want to assure this House that in our budget address we did indicate that we are working on a new debt management strategy. In my statement this evening, I also mentioned that. This is why I want to say this morning that when we do come here with proposals to insert into the Constitution, some provision where this August House will be involved at some stage of loan contraction, that proposal is going to receive the welcome of this House.

I thank you, Madam.

VOTE 99/01 – (Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure – Debt Service – External – K129,272,800,000).

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Chairperson, sub-head 2, programme 8, activity 05 – Yugoslavia – K8,000,000,000, I need clarification because the state of Yugoslavia does not exist.

Mr Magande: To avoid confusing ourselves, in view of the changes that have been going on in Eastern Europe, we have kept the name of our former creditors the same. This is the loan that is in the courts; the Donegal Loan. We made a provision for payment and luckily enough, since we seem to be losing the case, we will have some money to start paying off whatever the judgment will indicate.

I thank you.

Vote 99/01 ordered to stand part of Estimates.

VOTE 99/02 - (Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure – Debt Service – Internal – K656,534,104,070).

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under 1 interest Payments, Programme: 7 Interest Payments on Treasury Bills, Activity 04, Payment of Interest on 364 Days Treasury Bills, by the deletion of K183,154,891,587 and the substitution therefore of  K176,154,891,587.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on programme 9, Interest Payment on Bridge Loans, Activity 03, Advertising and Interest Charges – 537,902,005. Could the Minister explain to us what constitutes advertising?

Mr Magande: Thank you Madam. The figures should be on Interest Charges but we were using the same activity for advertising the Sale of Bonds and Treasury Bills. Normally those advertisements you see in the news papers are the ones that are a cost to us.

Vote 99/02, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 99/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 99/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 99/05 – (Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure – Other – K258,445,000,000)

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under 1 Other, Programme: 7 Medium-term Pay Reforms – (PRP), Activity 01 Medium – Term Pay Reform, by the deletion of K258,445,000,000 and the substitution therefore of K246,620,000,000.
 
Dr Machungwa: Madam Chairperson, I may not object to the amendment, but I would like to know why the hon. Minister is reducing that figure.

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, this figure was in our Green Paper and it was part of our projection. We have now concluded our arrangements and negotiations hence we are sure of the figure that we will end up paying.

Vote 99/05, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

___________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The Estimates of Expenditure (Including Capital and Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure) for the year 1st January, 2007 to 31st December, 2007 were reported to the House as having passed through with amendments.

Report adopted and Mr Speaker appointed the Minister of Finance and National Planning to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bill to give effect to the resolution of the Committee of Supply.

___________

BILL

FIRST READING

The following Bill was read the first time:

The Appropriation Bill, 2005

Second Reading, now.

______

SECOND READING

THE APPROPRIATION BILL, 2007

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled and I quote

“Act to authorise expenditure from the general revenues of the Republic of moneys required for the services of the Republic during the financial year ending on 31st December, 2007 not exceeding in the aggregates K12,034,409,035,760.” End of quote.

Mr Speaker, the Bill before the House is the culmination of the task that we started in the Committee of Supply. I wish to take this opportunity to express my sincere gratitude and thanks to you, Sir, for your noble guidance in the conduct of Business in the House. Commendations also go to the Deputy Speaker and the Chairperson of Committees who have contributed, immensely, to the smooth conduct of Business.

Sir, let me also recognise the contributions made by the Leader of the Government Business in the House for ensuring that the House was always adequately organised for business. I also pay tribute to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the invaluable assistance and logistical support rendered during the deliberations of the motion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: I am also indebted to hon. Members of this august House for their valuable contributions, counsel and support in approving the 2007 Budget Estimates.

As this House finishes business this morning, one major and important task ahead of us is the implementation and execution of the budget so that the theme of this year’s budget can be realised. I am aware that the success of the budget depends of the realisation of the Estimates of Revenue to fund expenditure programmes. It is with this, foregoing, that my ministry will ensure that revenue are collected to appropriate levels and timely disbursed to Ministries, Provinces and Spending Agencies (MPSAs) so that programmes approved by this august House are implemented. This, however, is not the end in itself as greater effort must be made in ensuring that those that receive these funds utilise the moneys given to them and in an appropriate manner. My ministry will also implement structural changes, as I announced before, to ensure proper management and accountability of public resources.

Mr Speaker, may I at this point, in time, remind my hon. Colleagues that they have a pivotal role to play in overseeing the implementation of the programmes contained in the 2007 Budget. My challenge also goes to other stakeholders and individual Zambians to take keen interest in developmental issues of our country. I, therefore, call on them to partner Government in monitoring development programmes contained in the 2007 Budget. Successful implementation of these programmes is what will, indeed, improve service delivery to our people as per our theme.

Sir, with regard to a number of budget issues that have come up during the current Session of Parliament, the Government through my ministry has take note of them and we hope to address some of them in the future budgets. Specifically, there were calls to address taxation issues and my ministry remains keen to review the current scenario through the proposed tax reforms to be undertaken in due course. Ultimately, Government wants a tax system that is fair or equitable, efficient and cost effective and at the same time a system that is able to provide adequate resources for national development.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga Indicated to debate.

Hon. Members: No!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning may wind up his Bill.

Laughter

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, let me, again, express my sincere gratitude for the overwhelming support to the Bill that I bring before the House. I just hope, as I have indicated, we are all ready now to fold our sleeves and go back to work of another kind. I know that we have been working for the last two months, but the work that we need to do now is no more to talk, but to use our muscle so that we can produce goods and services.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to the committee of the whole House.

Committee, today.

_______

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

THE APPROPRIATION BILL, 2007

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Schedule agreed to.

Title agreed to.
______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

Appropriation Bill, 2007

Third Readings now.

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read the third the time and passed:

The Appropriation Bill, 2007

______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE

The Vice-President (Mr Banda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn sine die.

Question put and agreed to.

_____

The House adjourned accordingly at 0511 hours on Friday, 6th April, 2007, sine die.
Thursday, 5th April, 2007

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

_____

RULING BY THE HON. MR SPEAKER ON THE POINTS OF ORDER RAISED BY THE DEPUTY MINISTER OF WORKS AND SUPPLY, HON. B.  TETAMASHIMBA, MP, ON ALLEGED DUAL PARTY MEMBERSHIP OF MR G. LUBINDA, MP, MR H. MTONGA, MP, AND MRS A. M. MWAMBA, MP, MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT FOR KABWATA, KANYAMA AND LUKASHYA PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCIES, RESPECTIVELY

Mr Speaker: The House will recall that, on Wednesday, 31st January, 2007, the Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, raised a point of order alleging dual party membership of the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata Constituency, Mr G. Lubinda, MP.

The House will also recall that on Friday, 16th February, 2007, the Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, raised another point of order alleging that the hon. Members of Parliament for Kanyama and Lukashya Constituencies, namely, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, respectively, were holding dual party membership as at January, 2007.

Hon. Members, as the two points of order raised are on the same issue of dual party membership of the three hon. Members and centres on almost the same facts, I have decided to combine the two points of order and make one ruling as follows:

Alleged dual party membership involving the hon. Member for Kabwata Parliamentary Constituency, Mr G. Lubinda, MP.

Hon. Members, on Wednesday, 31 January, 2007, when the House was considering Question for Oral Answer No. 162, asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu East, Mr Batuke Imenda, MP, the Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, raised the following point of order:

“Mr Speaker, the Constitution of Zambia states that:

“No Member of Parliament shall be in this House if he belongs to two political parties. The Member speaking on the Floor, in 2001, was removed from this House for associating himself with United Party for National Development (UPND).

“Mr Speaker, during the 28th September, Tripartite Elections, Hon. Lubinda published posters everywhere in Kabwata, and I had the opportunity to go and take pictures, one of which I will lay on the Table, showing the face of Hon. Lubinda.

“When you read from afar, the advertisement will be that of a United Liberal Party (ULP) candidate, but the ballot symbol on that same ballot paper states, Lubinda Given, Patriotic Front, and there is a boat and an ‘X’.

“As at that time, the only political parties that were accepted even by the Electoral Commission of Zambia to have alliances was (sic) the UPND, FDD and UNIP who stood as United Democratic Alliance (UDA). Even the ballot papers stated those three political parties and their leaders. The Hon Member of Parliament I am talking about is still the Chairperson for Information and Publicity for ULP.”

The Hon Member went on to quote from The Post newspaper of Tuesday, 9th January, 2007, Edition No. 3736, and he stated as follows:

“‘Sata-Saki Alliance Crumbles’ was the headline, and ‘I will lay this on the Table.’”

“The Patriotic Front will no longer be bound by the Memorandum of Understanding to decide with the ULP Party Leader”, Michael Sata has said. Giving an insight of the political strategy to guide his party in the year 2007 and beyond, Sata said, ‘PF will now operate as a single entity.’

“He said PF members were not impressed with ULP’s performance in the areas that where allocated to them in the September, 28th elections. Mr Sata said they did not sign any legal agreement with ULP President Sakwiba Sikota when the two agreed to work together through the Electoral Pact and, as such, there were no compelling reasons for the two parties not to operate separately.

“Mr Speaker, is the Hon Member of Parliament in order to be disguising himself as a Member of Parliament when his own advertisements that he put up were also stating that he is a member of ULP?

“Sir, I need your serious ruling on this matter and will lay this document on the Table.”

In my immediate remarks, I said:

“The hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Works and Supply has raised a constitutional matter with regard to the party affiliation of the Hon Member of Parliament for Kabwata.

“Matters of a constitutional nature, when raised in the House, require in-depth study. Accordingly, I defer the decision on this matter until I have studied it and have established or not established a prima facie case. In other words, I shall rule on this matter at a later date.”

2. Alleged dual party membership involving the Hon Members for Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency and Lukashya Parliamentary Constituency, Mr H Mtonga, MP and Mrs A M Mwamba, MP, respectively

The House will also recall that, on Friday, 16th February, 2007, the Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Hon B Tetamashimba, MP, raised another point of order on the Floor of the House alleging that the Hon Members of Parliament for Kanyama and Lukashya, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, respectively, were holding dual party membership as at January, 2007. He stated, in part:

“The ditching of ULP and Hon Sakwiba Sikota by the trio Members was after President Sata wrote to Mr Speaker and PF Members of Parliament and the three ULP Members who were asked to choose between ULP and PF. You may also recall that in my previous point of order, I stated that President Sata of PF denied there being any alliance between ULP and PF.

“Mr Speaker, as at January 2007, before the trio resigned from ULP, they were members of ULP and PF, and their resigning confirms their dual membership of these parties.

“Mr Speaker, the law on Members of Parliament who hold dual membership is very clear and for people whose evidence of membership and not association like was the case with the speaker on the Floor cannot be allowed to go against the constitutional requirement on Members of this House, which is that no Member shall keep his seat when he holds dual membership.

“Mr Speaker, are the two hon. Members in order to be staying in this House claiming to represent PF when they were holding dual membership as at January 2007 and even as at 18th February 2007 in my last point of order, I produced a poster of Hon Lubinda?

“Mr Speaker, I need your very serious ruling so that the integrity of this House, in keeping and abiding by the laws it makes, are not abrogated by Members who want to eat with both hands by carrying dual membership.”

In my immediate remarks on the point of order, I said as follows:

“The hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Works and Supply did raise a similar point of order recently, in that case on one hon. Member. The point of order he has now raised adds two other names of hon. Members to that list. As the House will recall, I did refer the earlier point of order for consideration to the Committee that deals with Members’ privileges. I believe the investigation is on-going.

“Quite obviously, in view of the developments, the additional points or matters that have been raised in the point of order will also be added on to the assignment by the Committee on Members’ Privileges. This is simply to inform the Members of the House, especially those who are new, that your Committee system is very thorough and very impartial. Nothing will be overlooked until the truth, in accordance with the law, is ascertained.”

Further, the House may wish to know that, in addition to the above point of order, Hon B. Tetamashimba, MP, wrote a letter to the Hon Mr Speaker, dated 28th February, 2007, in which he attached a copy of the “Liberal” Newspaper, Issue No 1, Volume 1, for November 30 - December 14, 2006. The Hon Deputy Minister drew the attention of the Speaker to an article under column 2, on the first page of the paper with the headline: “ULP enters Parliament after only two months of existence” which, in part, read as follows:

“Within two months of existence, the United Liberal Party managed to get to Parliament with an effective representation.

“Led by its president, Honourable Sakwiba Sikota as Member of Parliament for Livingstone, the Party has such effective MPs as Hon. Batuke Imenda, Hon Eileen Imbwae for Lukulu East and Lukulu West respectively. Others include Hon. Henry Mtonga as Kanyama MP and Vice-President of the United Liberal Party, Hon Given Lubinda “Zayelo” who is not only MP for Kabwata Constituency but the Chairperson for Information and Publicity.

“Nicknamed ‘Giant Killer’ for defeating former Vice President of the Republic of Zambia, Mr Lupando Mwape, in the 2006 General Elections, Hon. Alfreda Mwamba, MP, for Lukashya Constituency is also Chairperson for Legal Affairs in ULP.

“However, the latter three who are ULP were elected under the Patriotic Front/ULP Pact using the PF election symbol.”

Another Article, on page 2, with the headline “ULP Women take the Lead,” read in part, as follows:

“The United Liberal Party has produced two female Members of Parliament in its short existence, Hon Eileen Imbwae and Hon Alfreda Mwamba.

“Apart from the two honourable Members of Parliament the party has a good number of women in the high positions of the party.”

3 Procedure Followed in Investigating the Alleged Dual Party Membership.

Hon Members, in line with parliamentary procedure and practice, and the rules of natural justice, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly wrote to the following to obtain information on the allegations raised by the Hon Deputy Minister of Works and Supply as well as on the contents of the articles in The Liberal:

1. The three hon. Members alleged to hold or have held dual party membership, namely: Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP;

2. The Director, Electoral Commission of Zambia;

3. The Registrar of Societies;

4. The Secretary-General – United Liberal Party (ULP);

5. The Secretary-General – Patriotic Front (PF); and

6. The Publisher of The Liberal.

In the letters to Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly requested the three hon. Members to clarify their positions regarding the allegation that they belonged to two political parties, namely, the Patriotic Front Party and the United Liberal Party. 

Hon Members, the following were the responses from the three Hon Members alleged to hold or to have held dual party membership.

1. Response from Mr G Lubinda, MP

In his reply dated 13th February, 2007, the Hon Member stated, in part, as follows:

“In the run-up to the Tripartite Elections held on 28th September, 2006, I was supported, as a Parliamentary candidate for the Kabwata Constituency Seat, jointly by the Patriotic Front and the United Liberal Party. The PF and ULP agreed under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact that I should stand on the adoption of the PF ticket. In recognition of the above status, during the campaigns, I concurrently used the common manifestos, campaign regalia as well as campaign slogans of both the PF and the ULP.

“This has been my status from then on, including when I was elected to the National Assembly. I wish to state that I have, since being elected to Parliament, not engaged any other party besides the ones that sponsored me and the one on whose ticket I contested the elections to become a Member of Parliament. Further, I have not engaged in any activities that compromise the relationship I had with the two parties at the time of my adoption and subsequent election.”

Hon. Members, on the allegation in The Liberal that he held the position of Chairperson for Information and Publicity in the ULP, Mr G. Lubinda, MP, in his letter of Monday, 19th March, 2007, stated, in part, as follows:

“In your letter you ask me to clarify my position on the matter of the point of order raised by Hon Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Mr B. Tetamashimba, MP, in view of his having forwarded to you a copy of The Liberal Issue No. 1 for 30th November to 14th December, 2006, which you quote as reporting that I ‘held the position of Chairperson for Information and Publicity in the ULP’ by the 30th November, 2006.

“Let me start by informing you that ‘Liberal Issue’, which in your letter, you said was attached was not at all attached. Secondly as I have no immediate access to our previous correspondence on the matter, I am wondering what the new allegation against me is. I am also wondering on what new matter you want my clarification. If it is on the statement in the “Liberal Issue”, that I held the position of Chairperson in ULP as at 30th November 2006, all I have to do is to reiterate what I stated in my previous letter to you. I trust that should suffice.”

2. Response from Mr H. Mtonga, MP

In his letter dated 21st February, 2007, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, stated, in part, as follows:

“First of all, Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, raised a frivolous and vexatious point of order because he falsely equated his own past reasons for expulsion from Parliament with my tenure. He was in Parliament sponsored by National Party, but subsequently assumed membership of another party, United Party for National Development (UPND).

“Whereas in my case, it is a notorious fact that, through the PF/ULP Electoral Pact, Parliament having been dissolved, but prior to the Tripartite Elections of 28th September, 2006, I was supported by both parties, PF/ULP, to stand as a Patriotic Front candidate in Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency. I submitted to the Electoral Commission of Zambia accordingly and was duly nominated as such. I was subsequently elected a PF Member of Parliament with overwhelming votes against four (4) other Parliamentary candidates. In the context of Article 71 (2) (c), or, indeed, any other, thereunder, I have done nothing wrong to warrant Hon Tetamashimba’s malicious point of order.

“Moreover, Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, raised what he called a “serious constitutional point of order,” thus contextualising his argument within the provisions of Article 71 governing the tenure of office of Members of the National Assembly. Most likely, he had in mind Article 71 (2) (c), which bars an elected Member of Parliament from becoming “a member of a political party other than the party of which he was an authorised candidate…”  Hon. Tetamashimba has not adduced evidence that I have abandoned membership of the Patriotic Front. I find his presumption to that effect malicious, frivolous and vexatious.

“Finally, the constitutional point of order was a serious embarrassment to me who has espoused legality and constitutionality in all I have done in public life for the past forty-five years in which I take pride. Even then, I think that Hon. Tetamashimba’s point of order should not have been allowed to the point of asking me to exculpate myself as if he had established a prima facie case. It seems to me that even the remedy sought by Hon. Tetamashimba appears to fall within the ambit of Article 72 of the Constitution, which gives final jurisdiction to the High Court.

“The Post newspaper laid on the Table to support Hon. Tetamashimba’s point of order, clearly stated my position as that of a PF Member. Since 18th July, 2006, there have been several Post Newspapers which carried articles concerning my problem. It is plain to see that the ruling party, Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) has a pathological hatred for the Patriotic Front (PF) and its leader Mr Michael Chilufya Sata whom they have vowed to suffocate. I have taken strong exception to Hon. Tetamashimba’s conduct because it is an attempt at lowering my integrity and to hinder my privilege to enjoy full tenure of the House as a duly elected PF Member of Parliament for Kanyama Constituency.”

On the allegation in The Liberal that he held the position of Vice-President of the ULP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP. in his letter dated Tuesday, 20th March, 2007, states as follows:

“In the first place, allow me to state that it is against the principle of fair play to permit Mr Ben Tetamashimba, MP, to go “fishing” for whatever else he can find subsequent to his point of order in the House and have evidence he openly tabled as the foundation of his case against me. I find it odd having earlier requested me to give you my side of the story, your office should again, direct me to do so before hearing from you.

“I submit that this is not good practice as it is most likely to introduce, into Parliament, mischievous, malicious and cut-throat politicking rendering quasi-judicial rulings by the Speaker untenable as it goes against the grain of truth, justice and fair play.

“Be that as it may, I submit herewith my considered response to your letter:

“(a) Constitutional Position

“I stand by the explanation I gave you in my earlier letter dated 21st February, 2007.

“However, I now wish to add that the Constitutional provisions i.e. Clause 71 (2) (c) of Cap. 1 of the Laws of Zambia, did not prohibit the Patriotic Front Party from “authorising” me to be their candidate for Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency notwithstanding that at the material time I had come from the United Liberal Party via an electoral pact. I am alive to the law which stops Members of Parliament from (post-elections) desertions or defections against their electoral mandate as did Mr Ben Tetamashimba. The issue of dual membership to more than one political party is neither here nor there.

“(b) Post Newspapers

“Mr Tetamashimba selected one Post Newspaper to support his point of order, ignoring an earlier one carried a day after Nomination Day in September, 2006, and several others, including one whose copy I still have, dated January 12th 2007, now attached hereto. The Constitution guarantees me the right to associate as I freely choose.

“(c) Precedent Quoted in Support of Mr Tetamashimba’s Point of Order

“The following was the ratio decidendi, in the Point of Order raised on Mr Tetamashimba when he was the “authorised” parliamentary candidate of the National Party and then joined UPND:

“Having been elected to Parliament on the ticket of National Party, he had joined UPND becoming its interim Secretary-General.

“Clearly the conduct that led to Mr Tetamashimba’s expulsion does not apply to me regardless of how much Mr Tetamashimba may wish to get at President Michael Chilufya Sata, who may have raised the point of order on him.

“(d) The Liberal

“In order to prevent speculation and hearsay, I have obtained the comment of Hon Sakwiba Sikota, Member of Parliament, Interim President of the United Liberal Party, who was reported to be the author of the article in question, which I now attach hereto as it is self-explanatory.

“It is my sincere hope that this lengthy explanation will put to rest the malicious campaigns of the Ruling Party, MMD, who are using Mr Tetamashimba to embarrass me, Parliament and the people of Kanyama Constituency.

“Moreover, I wish to draw your attention to the provisions of Clause 72 (1) (a) of the Republican Constitution which clearly states that only the High Court shall have power to declare that “…the seat of any member has become vacant,…” The case involving Akashambatwa Mbikusita-Lewanika is relevant to this issue.”

3. Response from Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP

Mrs Alfreda Mwamba, MP, in her letter dated Friday, 23rd February, 2007, stated in part, as follows:

“In response to the allegation made by the Deputy Minister for Works and Supply, Hon B Tetamashimba, MP, I have this to say:

“That I was co-sponsored by both PF and ULP due to the Electoral Pact the two parties entered into before the general elections;

“That I then was elected to stand on the PF ticket as a Member of Parliament for Lukashya. I have never joined any other party since being elected under PF. I do understand the constitutional requirement as to membership of a Member of Parliament as provided for under Article 71(2) (c) of the Republican Constitution Chapter one of the Laws of Zambia.

“I have been a member of the Patriotic Front Party since my nomination on the 15th of August, 2006.

“Your good office, Madam Clerk, is at liberty to check these facts with both the United Liberal Party as well as the Patriotic Front Party so as to assist Mr Speaker to make the right decision on the point of order raised by the Hon. Deputy Minister.”

On the allegation in The Liberal that she held the position of Chairperson for Legal Affairs in the ULP, Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, in her letter dated Tuesday, 20th March, 2007 stated, in part, as follows:

“As I explained in my earlier response on this subject matter, I have been Patriotic Front since the 15th of August, 2006, I have never gone back to ULP. In fact, the picture and article referred to in the issue of The Liberal is a surprise to me and I saw it for the first time on Friday, the 17th of March, 2007. I would, in this case, refer you to the author of the said article whose comment I have solicited as hereto attached.

“You are at liberty to inquire from the ULP Secretariat so that they can explain to you when I relinquished the position of Chairperson - Legal being referred to in the said issue of The Liberal.

“I still maintain that I am truly PF and since being elected, I have stayed so. Let me also hasten to state that I am alive to the requirement of the provision of Article 71 of the Republican Constitution and, therefore, the issue of duo membership cannot arise. In any case, my association with ULP/PF came as a result of the Electoral Pact entered into by the two parties for the purpose of elections.

“I am sure that even the author of the point of order has observed that the association between the two parties ceased after the end of the General or Tripartite elections.

“My position is that I am PF and hold no position in ULP.”

Further, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, indicated in their letters to the Clerk, that they had requested the author of The Liberal of 30th November to December, 2006, namely Mr Sakwiba Sikota, President of ULP, to clarify on the article in The Liberal. In his reply of Tuesday, 20th March, 2007, on this matter, Mr Sakwiba Sikota, MP, President of the ULP, stated, in part, as follows:

“The Liberal is a communications tool for all the members and sympathisers of our party started by the workers of the party. It, being an in-house newsletter publication, did not require any registration with the National Archives.

“The reference to your good selves who stood using the PF symbol in the article in question was written on the basis of information that was available to the writers at that time. The concept of an electoral pact is alien to most people in Zambia and hence the understandable confusion of what it means.

“The PF/ULP Electoral Pact that we entered into with the Patriotic Front, through our joint efforts, managed to get us six seats and the patriotic Front forty-three parliamentary seats. Apart from this, we had numerous council seats. The joint efforts captured the Zambian people’s imagination and desire.

“As this was a decision based on what the people wanted, we found no difficulty in allowing the three of you to stand using the Patriotic Front ticket. It also meant that it was no longer possible for you to attend Patriotic Front party caucuses and at the same time to hold positions in the ULP structures.

“It is for that reason that, even in the Parliamentary records, the three of you have deductions made from your emoluments, monthly, towards the Patriotic Front

“It is on that basis that the Management Committee released you to be sponsored by the Patriotic Front jointly with ourselves.

“The interim positions everyone held were for administrative convenience only and, in fact, the record at the Registrar of Societies does not and has never had your names amongst the office bearers.

“I believe that it is clear to all that none of you have changed your status since being elected to the National Assembly. The Editor of The Liberal newsletter shall be requested to make an appropriate clarification in the next issue.”

The House may also wish to know that the Office of the Clerk further wrote to the Publisher of The Liberal seeking clarification on the article in The Liberal on the Membership of the three hon Members to the ULP. In his response, of Wednesday, 28th March, 2007, the Communications Officer of the ULP, Mr Inambao Inambao, stated, in part, as follows:

“The true position is that the trio were PF members even at the time that The Liberal Issue No. 001, Volume 1, November 30 – December 14, 2006, was published. The positions referred to in the article were interim positions everyone held for administrative convenience only during the formation of the United Liberal Party in July, 2006, and, in fact, the records at the Registrar of Societies do not and have never had their names amongst the office bearers.

“The Editor of The Liberal Newsletter will make an appropriate clarification on the matter in the next issue, which will be published in April 2007.”

4. Response from the Director, Electoral Commission of Zambia

In the letters to the Director of the Electoral Commission of Zambia, the Office of the Clerk requested for the following information:

(i) the political party on which Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP,  were elected to the National Assembly;

(ii) the symbol used by Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, for the purposes of their election to the National Assembly; and
(iii) the nature of the electoral pact or coalition arrangements, if any, between the ULP and the PF.

In her reply of Tuesday, 20th February, 2007, the Deputy Director of the Electoral Commission of Zambia, Ms P. M. Isaacs, stated, in part, as follows, that, is in relation to Mr Mtonga, MP, and Mrs Mwamba, MP:

“1. Mr Henry Mtonga, MP, and Mrs Alfredah Mwamba, MP, were both elected to National Assembly on the Patriotic Front ticket.
 “2. Mr Mtonga, MP. and Mrs Mwamba, MP. used the Patriotic Front Party symbol of a boat for their election to the National Assembly.”

As regards Mr Lubinda, MP, the Deputy Director of the Electoral Commission of Zambia, Ms P. M. Isaacs, responded in her letter of Monday, 12th February, 2007, in part, as follows:

“1. Mr Given Lubinda, MP, was elected to Parliament on the Patriotic Front Party ticket.

“2. Mr Lubinda, MP, used the Patriotic Front Party symbol of a boat, for his election to the National Assembly.

“3. The nature of the coalition arrangements between the ULP and PF political parties may possibly be addressed by the Registrar of Societies.”
 
5. Response from the Registrar of Societies

In the two letters to the Registrar of Societies, the Office of the Clerk requested to be furnished with a list of office bearers for the United Liberal Party from its inception.

In his reply of Tuesday, 20th February, 2007, the Registrar of Societies furnished the Office of the Clerk with a copy of the list of office bearers for ULP, submitted to the Registrar when the party was being registered in July, 2006. The list is as follows:

(i) Chairperson  Clementina N Chipeta
(ii) Vice Chairperson Justine Bwalya
(iii) Secretary Felista Chanda
(iv) Vice Secretary Benandette C Chanda
(v) Treasurer Samuel S Mudenda
(vi) Vice Treasurer Kaizar P Zulu
(vii) Publicity Secretary Teddy L Chimbinde
(viii) Vice Publicity Secretary  Joseph Simubali
(ix) Trustee Fredy Mainga Milinga
(x) Trustee Martin Mufumbi Mwewa
(xi) Trustee Sibote M Sibote Warreny
(xii) Trustee  Bernard Lengwe

The current Executive Committee, according to a list submitted to the Registrar of Societies on 13th February, 2007, by the Office of the Secretary General of the ULP, comprises the following:

(i) President Mr Sakwiba Sikota 
(ii) Vice President Mr Bob Sichinga
(iii) National Chairperson Mrs Clementina Chipeta
(iv) Treasurer General Mr Francis Simenda
(v) Vice Treasurer General   Mr Yusuf Badat
(vi) Deputy Secretary General   Mr Sikwiindi Situla
(vii) Elections and Campaigns   Mr Joseph Simubali
(viii) National Youth Chairman   Mr Edwin Simusamba
(ix) National Women’s Chairlady  Mrs Charity Katilungu
(x) Chairman Local Government  Mr Peter Shumba
(xi) Trustee     Ms Harriet Fulilwa

The Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly also conducted a physical search on the ULP file at the Office of the Registrar of Societies to verify the information given by the Registrar of Societies. The Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly established that the information given by the Registrar of Societies was exactly what the Registrar had provided in his letter.

In the letters to the Secretaries-General of ULP and PF, the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly sought to establish whether Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, were members of their respective political parties. The following were their responses:

6. Response from the Secretary General - United Liberal Party

In respect of Mr G Lubinda, MP, the Acting Secretary-General of ULP responded in his letter of Monday, 12th February, 2007, in part, as follows:

“We wish to confirm that Hon Given Lubinda was jointly authorised to be a candidate in the last parliamentary election by the Patriotic Front (PF) and the United Liberal Party (ULP). The PF and ULP agreed under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact that Hon. Lubinda should stand using the PF electoral symbol. This has been the status of Hon. Lubinda from the outset and even when he was elected to the current National Assembly.

“We can confirm that since being authorised to be a candidate and being elected to be a member of the National Assembly Hon. Lubinda has not become a member of a political party other than the authorising party of his candidature, as envisaged under article 71(2)(c) of the Republican Constitution.”

In respect of Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, the Secretary-General for United Liberal Party responded in his letter of Wednesday, 21 February, 2007, in part, as follows:

“We acknowledge receipt of your letter dated 19th February 2007, the contents of which we have noted.

“Accordingly, we wish to confirm that both Mr Henry Mtonga and Mrs Alfreda Mwamba were jointly authorised to be candidates in Kanyama and Lukashya Parliamentary elections by the Patriotic Front (PF) and the United Liberal Party (ULP). The PF and ULP agreed under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact that the two stand using the PF electoral symbol. This has been the status of the two since the 2006 Presidential and general elections.

“We can confirm that, since being authorised to be candidates and being elected to be members of the current National Assembly, the two have not become members of a political party other than the authorising party of their candidature, as envisaged under Article 71(2)(c) of the Republican Constitution.”

7. Response from the Secretary-General – Patriotic Front

In respect of Mr Lubinda, MP, the Secretary-General of Patriotic Front in a letter of 14 February, 2007, stated, in part, as follows:

“Mr Given Lubinda was, during the 2006 Tripartite General Elections, authorised under the Electoral Pact between the Patriotic Front and the United Liberal Party to be a candidate on the PF ticket in Kabwata.

“In view of the foregoing, Mr Lubinda is a Member of Parliament for the Patriotic Front and does not, therefore, hold any dual membership in parliament as alleged.”

In respect of Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, the Patriotic Front Secretary-General responded in his letter of Wednesday, 21st February, 2007, in part, as follows:

“I would like to state that Mr Henry Mtonga, Member of Parliament for Kanyama Constituency, and Mrs Alfreda Mwamba, Member of Parliament for Lukashya Constituency, are members of the Patriotic Front Party and not the United Liberal Party as alleged.

“The two Members of Parliament were authorised under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact during the last Tripartite Elections to contest their respective seats as members of the PF. They do not, therefore, hold any dual membership.”

Hon Members, the issue raised in the two points of order by the Hon Deputy Minister of Works and Supply were that Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Ms Alfreda Mwamba, MP, hold or held dual party membership contrary to Article 71 of the Constitution.

Hon Members, the allegations raised by the Hon Deputy Minister of Works and Supply, Hon B. Tetamashimba, MP, therefore, centres on Article 71(2)(c) of the Constitution of Zambia, Cap 1 of the Laws of Zambia, which states as follows:

“(2) A member of the National Assembly shall vacate his seat in the Assembly -

(c) In the case of an elected member, if he becomes a member of a political party other than the party of which he was an authorised candidate when he was elected to the National Assembly or, if having been an independent candidate, he joins a political party or having been a member of a political party, he becomes an independent.”

Hon Members, I now turn to the issues at hand in this case which are:

(i) whether or not the Speaker of the National Assembly has power to make a decision on the points of order raised by the Hon Deputy Minister;

(ii) the nature of the electoral pact or coalition arrangements between the Patriotic Front Party and the United Liberal Party; and

(iii) whether Hon Lubinda, Hon Mtonga and Hon Alfreda Mwamba hold or have held dual party membership contrary to Article 71 of the Constitution of Zambia and the case of Benny Tetamashimba vs Speaker of the National Assembly, Chairman of the Electoral Commission of Zambia and the Attorney-General (2001/HP/0675).

Hon Members, I will now discuss the above issues in detail as follows:

1. Whether or not the Speaker of the National Assembly has Power to Make a Decision on the Points of Order Raised by the Hon Deputy Minister

Hon Members, in his response of Tuesday, 20th March, 2007, to the Clerk of the National Assembly, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, among other things, contended that the remedy sought by Hon Tetamashimba, MP, appears to fall within the ambit of Article 72 of the Constitution which gives jurisdiction to the High Court as the only authority which has power to declare a parliamentary seat vacant and not the National Assembly.

The matter has been a subject of judicial interpretation and the House may wish to be guided by the precedents set by the High Court and the Supreme Court of Zambia in the following cases:

The case of the Attorney-General & Movement for Multi Party Democracy vs Akashambatwa Mbikusita Lewanika, Fabian Kasonde, John Mulwila, Chilufya Chileshe Kapwepwe, Katongo Mulenga Maine (1993 SJ) provides guidelines on the power of the Speaker in declaring the seat of a Member of Parliament vacant in relation to Article 71 of the Constitution.

The brief facts of the case were that four Members of Parliament, who had stood and won elections on the MMD ticket decided to resign from the party on the 13th August, 1993. The National Secretary of the MMD then, wrote to Mr Speaker notifying him of the development so that he could declare the seats vacant in terms of Article 71(2)(c) of the Republican Constitution. The Hon Mr Speaker, consequently, wrote to them and informed them of the seats being declared vacant. The Members decided to challenge the decision of the Hon Mr Speaker, seeking the court’s indulgence to declare the Speaker’s decision null and void.

The Supreme Court upheld the Speaker’s decision and stated the following:

“The effect of the interpretation of Article 71(2)(c) is that the respondents in the main appeal who were petitioners in the court below vacated their seats in the National Assembly on the 12th of August, 1993, the date on which they announced their resignation from the MMD, the party on whose ticket they were elected to the National Assembly.”

In another High Court case of Hon Benny Tetamashimba versus the Speaker of the National Assembly, the Chairman of the Electoral Commission of Zambia and the Attorney General (2001/HP/0675), the House may wish to learn as follows:

The brief facts of this case were that, in 1996, Mr B Tetamashimba, MP, was elected as Member of Parliament for Solwezi Central on the National Party (NP) ticket. In 2000, the United Party for National Development (UPND) and the National Party (NP) signed a Memorandum of Understanding where Hon Tetamashimba, MP, was subsequently appointed as Secretary-General. On a point of order, the Standing Orders Committee sat and found that Mr Tetamashimba had contravened Article 71(2)(c) of the Constitution whereupon Mr Speaker declared his seat vacant.

Mr Tetamashimba applied for Judicial Review before the High Court seeking, among other reliefs, to declare the Speaker’s decision null and void. Justice J. C. Mutale dismissed the application and upheld the expulsion of Mr Tetamashimba from the House on the ground that the Speaker had complied with the rules of natural justice when he found Mr Tetamashimba guilty of dual membership and declared the seat vacant. Justice Mutale made the following observation:

“… he became a United Party for National Development (UPND) Member after waiver of normal formalities of application for membership, this thus is an exception to the rule but it unfortunately made him a dual member contrary to the provisions of Article 71 and draws him into the jurisdiction of the Speaker. The Speaker found that the applicant did have dual membership. He based his decision on that breach in full compliance with the rules of natural justice. He was afforded a hearing. There was therefore no illegality, impropriety, malice or unreasonableness when the Speaker made that decision.”

Hon Members, in the above cases, the court did not find the Speaker’s decision to declare a seat vacant ultra vires the Constitution. Their concern was whether the Speaker had rightly interpreted the Constitution by ruling that the Members had breached Article 71(2) (c) of the Constitution.

Thus, the Speaker has power to declare a seat vacant and any Member of Parliament who is not satisfied with the Speaker’s decision has recourse to the High Court by virtue of Article 72(1)(a) of the Constitution.

2. The nature of the Electoral Pact or Coalition Arrangements between the Patriotic Front Party and the United Liberal Party

Going by the evidence given by the witnesses that I have already referred to, prior to the 2006 Presidential and General Elections, the ULP and the PF entered into an electoral pact which entailed that the two parties would work together. Under the said ULP/PF Electoral Pact, the three hon. Members were jointly authorised by the two parties to stand on the PF ticket for their election to the National Assembly. In other words, although the agreement was for the two parties to work together, each candidate officially stood on one political party ticket.

Therefore, Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, were originally ULP members when the two parties agreed to work together. However, when the two parties authorised the three members to stand on the PF ticket for their election to Parliament, the evidence points to the fact that the three Members did not hold any positions in ULP, and were no longer members of ULP. Hon Members should note that, at the time the ULP was first registered with the Registrar of Societies, the three Members did not hold any positions in the ULP.

On the article in The Liberal showing that the three hon Members were ULP members who were elected to Parliament on the PF Party ticket while holding certain positions in the ULP, the House should note that, from the evidence gathered, the three may have held interim positions for administrative purposes only during the formation period of ULP in July, 2006. However, from first registration of the Party to date, they do not appear on the official list of office bearers for ULP at the Office of the Registrar of Societies. The Speaker has, therefore, no cogent documentary evidence that the three hon. Members hold or held positions in ULP after their election on the Patriotic Front ticket.

Hon Members, in relation to Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Hon B. Tetamashimba, MP, laid on the Table of the House, as evidence, a picture showing the face of Mr G. Lubinda, MP, which, from afar, reflected him as a ULP Member, but had symbols of PF, namely, a boat and an X against it and read ‘Lubinda Given, Patriotic Front.’ On this matter, the explanation given by Mr Lubinda is that he decided to concurrently use the common manifestos, campaign regalia and campaign slogans of both the PF and the ULP in recognition of the agreement between the ULP and the PF under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact which allowed him to stand on the PF ticket. The fact, as evidenced by the information from the Electoral Commission of Zambia, is that Mr Lubinda, MP, stood for elections on the Patriotic Front ticket.

3. Whether Hon Lubinda, Hon Mtonga and Hon Alfreda Mwamba Hold or have Held Dual Party Membership Contrary to Article 71 of the Constitution and the Case of Benny Tetamashimba vs. Speaker of the National Assembly, Chairman of the Electoral Commission of Zambia and the Attorney-General of 2001.

Hon Members, based on the evidence gathered on the present matter, I have established that, at the time of elections, Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP, may have initially been members of the ULP, but when authorised under the ULP/PF Electoral Pact to stand on the PF ticket for their election to Parliament, they became Members of the House from the Patriotic Front Party and did not hold any positions in the ULP. According to the evidence, this position has not changed.

Hon. B. Tetamashimba, MP, in his point of order, made comparison to his own case and urges this House to abide by its precedent. Hon Members, in the case of Hon B. Tetamashimba v. the Speaker of the National Assembly and Others, which I have described in detail earlier, Hon B Tetamashimba had been elected to Parliament on the National Party ticket, but later became a member of the United Party for National Development, by assuming the office of the General-Secretary. The High Court found that his status in the House had clearly altered as he was both a member of the National Party and the UPND contrary to Article 71 of the Constitution.

However, from the evidence obtained from all the concerned persons and institutions as described above, I find that the three hon Members were duly elected on the Patriotic Front Party ticket and have since not had dual party membership in contravention of Article 71 (2) (c) of the Constitution. Accordingly, I find no prima facie case on the alleged dual party membership, against Mr G. Lubinda, MP, Mr H. Mtonga, MP, and Mrs A. M. Mwamba, MP. There is, therefore, no need for me to refer the matter to the Committee on Members Privileges, Absences and Support Services for their consideration.

I thank you all.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

______________

MINISTERIAL STATEMENTS

COMPLETION OF THE PARTIAL PRIVATISATION OF ZAMBIA NATIONAL COMMERCIAL BANK (ZANACO) PLC

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, exactly a week ago today, I informed this august House that I shall come to the House and make a statement on the completion of the partial privatisation of Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO). This is in accordance with the agreement of sale between the Government and Rabobank on the partial privatisation of ZANACO, which calls for full disclosure of all material information related to the transaction upon completion of sale, which was concluded on Tuesday, 3rd April, 2007.

Allow me, Mr Speaker, to inform the House that all the information concerning the transaction will be placed on the website, and I quote: ‘www.zpa.org.zm’. This information will be placed within the next twenty-four hours. Further, ZANACO has placed information concerning this transaction in the Zambian daily newspapers today.

Mr Speaker, last Thursday, 3rd April, 2007, the Government of the Republic of Zambia handed over the management and operations of Zambia National Commercial Bank Plc, commonly known as ZANACO, to the strategic investor, Rabo Financial Institutions Development known as Rabobank which is a 100 per cent subsidiary of Rabobank Nederland. This follows the signing, by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on 22nd January, 2007, of the sale and purchase agreement and subsequent satisfaction of all terms of the transaction by the parties.

The transaction has been conducted within the Cabinet approved framework, which provided for the sale of 49 per cent shares to a strategic investor and the majority shareholding of 51 per cent being retained in Zambian hands as follows:

(a) 25.8 per cent to be held by the Zambian public;

(b) 0.2 per cent to be retained by the minority shareholders;

(c) 25 per cent to be retained by the Government.

In addition, Cabinet directed that all the rural branches be retained. This shareholding structure addresses the public concerns that Zambians should hold the majority shares in ZANACO. The formula also addresses concerns that the Government should not have a majority controlling stake but be limited to a ceiling of 25 per cent ownership.

The Bank of Zambia gave the necessary waivers for Rabobank to obtain the 49 per cent shareholding, thereby, insuring that the Government did not breach the provisions of the Banking and Financial Services Act. Of the 49 per cent shareholding, Rabobank has made commitments to subsequently offload 4 per cent shares to the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU).

As regards to the 25.8 per cent to be held by Zambians, arrangements will soon be put in place to float the shares on the Lusaka Stock Exchange (LuSE). In this way, a broad spectrum of Zambian investors would be accorded an opportunity to participate in the ownership of ZANACO by buying shares.

Mr Speaker, the 25 per cent shareholding retained by the Government is important, in that it provides the Government with an option to, at an appropriate time, offload these same shares to Zambians as further empowerment or continue to hold onto the shares on behalf of the taxpayers. More importantly though, the 25 per cent shareholding grants the Government with significant minority rights protection on key strategic issues in addition to the rights afforded under the shareholders agreement.

Mr Speaker, turning to the purchase price that Rabo Financial Institutions Development (RFID) paid to acquire the 49 per cent GRZ shareholding in ZANACO, the offer price was US$8,250,000. In accordance with the sale and purchase agreement, 10 per cent of the offer price was received on the signing of the sale and purchase agreement on 22nd January, 2007 and the balance was received on completion, which was on 3rd April, 2007.

Mr Speaker, the monies arising from the proceeds of the sale, have been deposited in a current account corporate US dollar product A/c no. 003041000000047 held with ZANACO. I lay here the bank statement of the transaction for hon. Members of the House to see. I wish to inform this August House that Rabobank’s gross bid, based on the net asset value of ZANACO as at 31st December, 2004, was US$10 million. ZANACO’s net asset value as at 31st December, 2004 was US$ 20.5 million. Rabobank, therefore, in making their bid, took into account some adjustments, such as provision for consultancy fees, to arrive at the net bid of US$ 8,250,000.

Mr Speaker, as pointed out, the offer was based on the financial position of ZANACO as at 31st December, 2004. Over time, however, the financial status of the bank has changed and there is, therefore, need to assess the change, which will result in a price adjustment as provided for in the sale and purchase agreement. The Government and the strategic investor, Rabobank, will appoint an independent auditor to determine the net asset value of the bank within ninety days from the completion date of the sale. This will be the basis on which the price adjustment will be made.

Mr Speaker, contrary to apprehensions and concerns by the public, Rabobank has agreed with the Government that it would maintain all existing rural branches for a period of not less than ten years with the exception of possible re-location of branches within a radius of five kilometers due to practical business reasons.

Furthermore, Rabobank during this period has contractually committed to increasing the total number of rural branches by 20 per cent.

At completion of Sale, Rabobank has made a commitment that all serving employees will be retained and no redundancies have been agreed. With regard to unionised employees, redundancies if any, will be in line with the existing Collective Agreements and Labour Laws.

Additionally, Rabobank has only brought in three expatriates namely; the Managing Director; the Manager for Change and the Risk Manager.

Mr Speaker, Rabobank is ranked amongst the twenty-five largest banks in the world and is a broad based retail bank that has its roots firmly planted in the food and agricultural sectors dating back to the late 19th Century. The Government is, therefore, satisfied that Rabobank will re-position ZANACO as an agricultural financial services provider and developer of new agro-based products that will suit rural-based farmers and significantly contribute to the creation of wealth and employment in the agriculture sector of the Zambian economy.

Mr Speaker, the acquisition by Rabobank Nederland of 49 per cent Government share holding in ZANACO and the impending offer of 25.8 per cent of the Government shares to the Zambian public marks a major milestone in the Privatisation Programme being undertaken under the Zambia Development Agency.

Mr Speaker, allow me to assure this august House, once more, that it is the Government’s expectation that the long-term relationship that we have entered into with Rabobank will yield tangible benefits for the economy and country at large.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members are now given an opportunity to ask questions on points of clarification on the ministerial statement given by the hon. Minister.

Mr C. Banda (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, may the Hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry tell the House whether there is another commitment made by Rabobank to offload 20 per cent of its shares to the Zambian public apart from the commitment to offload 4 per cent to the Zambia National Farmers Union.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it is Rabobank’s intention to offload the 20 per cent shares to the Zambian public through the Stock Exchange after offloading 4 per cent shares to the Zambia National Farmers Union so that it, too, complies with the Banking and Financial Services Act.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, in his detailed statement, the hon. Minister stated that as of 31st December, 2004, the asset base of the bank was US$10 million and the net asset at the same time was US$20.5 million. Would the hon. Minister, therefore, state that the adjustment in the consultancy fees resulted in the sale price of US$8.52 million?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the net asset value was US$8.250 million taking into account adjustments amongst which a sum of US$665,000 has been paid to Price Waterhouse and another company called DLN Paper Roderick who have provided consultancy. The balance is also for consultancy that has been provided.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, regarding the 25.2 per cent of the shares that the Government will sell to the general public, I would like to find out what percentage of those shares has been earmarked for housewives and the people who are vulnerable and whether there is a mechanism to ensure that they are able to buy these shares so that they could have ownership because that bank belongs to them.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, once agreed with the Securities Exchange Commission, the shares will be floated on the Lusaka Stock Exchange and the general public, whether disabled, housewives, widows or widowers, Members of Parliament or whatever category of Zambian citizens and children alike, can access these shares by going to the Lusaka Stock Exchange or through the brokers to purchase the number of shares that they require.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I need some clarification from the hon. Minister. Why is he silent on the management agreement given to Rabobank. We have been discussing about shares that have been granted. Why is he picking on specific elements in there? Could he please explain the agreement and lay it on the Table? That, to me, is more important than shares.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, as I mentioned in my speech, the Government has nothing to hide. All the information relating to transactions are available on the website. I have laid on the Table the issues pertaining to the financial transactions. If hon. Members would like to have more information, they can access it on the website. The Sale Agreement is also available on the website because there is nothing to be hidden. We thought, as a Government, that people were worried about the sale, but if it relates to management issues, it is available in the Sale Agreement. It is a pity now, and too late, but I could have laid it on the Table as well.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, this is a well-known fact that, of late, ZANACO has been making huge profits. Could the hon. Minister inform this House what other reasons have warranted the sale of ZANACO to Rabobank?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I think we have been through this process during the first statement I made in Parliament when I highlighted the difficulties that ZANACO was facing, such as the huge debt for renovations. There are so many reasons that I have advanced which necessitated the sale of ZANACO, needless to say, of course, that ZANACO is making a profit now. It is agreed, but I think in my statement earlier on, this was because the Government had put in almost K250 million. That is why you are seeing the balance sheet records like that. If the Government took out that K250 million, the problems of ZANACO are not artificial.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ndalamei (Sikongo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister mentioned that ZANACO will maintain its rural branches for ten years. What will happen thereafter?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, assurance of maintaining the rural branches for ten years is to allay the perceptions that were obtaining, that Rabobank is closing rural branches. Therefore, we have put it at a minimum of ten years to allay your fears. After that, ZANACO is going to be profitable and the rural branches will also be profitable and there will be no need for them to close.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the Government governs on behalf of the people of Zambia and the people of Zambia have said no to the privatisation of ZANACO. Is it right to privatise against the wish and will of the people?

May the hon. Minister assure this House that five years from now, they will not come, as in the case of the mines, to tell this House …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, before we broke for tea, I was saying that the Government governs on behalf of the people and the people of Zambia said no to the sale of ZANACO. Therefore, is it right for this Government to go ahead and privatise ZANACO against the wishes of the people of Zambia?

I would also like the hon. Minister to assure this House that five years from now the Government will not come, as in the case of the mining agreements, to tell us that they signed this contract under duress.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I would like to put this on record especially for the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan. The Government has not privatised ZANACO. I will repeat that for the benefit of the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan.

Laughter

Mr Konga: The Government has not privatised ZANACO. It is only some of its shares that have been sold.

If you listened carefully to my ministerial statement, the majority of the shares are being owned by Zambians. I also indicated that Rabobank will soon offer its 4 per cent shares to the Zambia National Farmers Union (ZNFU) to which most district provincial co-operatives belong. The members of these co-operative unions are Zambians.

Once again, more Zambians are going to have shares in ZANACO. With time, Rabobank has committed to selling its 20 per cent shares on the Lusaka Stock Exchange which will enable more Zambians to own shares in the bank. What more evidence do you want that the Government has not privatised ZANACO? It is only some of its shares that have been privatised.

I would like to mention to the hon. Members of the House that the net asset value of ZANACO in 2004 was US$20.5 million. The 49 per cent of that amount translates into US$10 million and this was as at December, 2004. Within ninety days, we will know how ZANACO has moved. As we have heard, it is performing better. Therefore, that asset value will go up but we have to wait for ninety days to get that information. For the benefit of the hon. Members of the House and the citizens at large, the Government has only sold some shares of ZANACO. 51 per cent of the remaining shares or the majority stake is still held by Zambians.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Order! I have also permitted the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to give a ministerial statement.

THE APPROVAL OF THE COUNCIL ANNUAL BUDGET ESTIMATE FOR 2007

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mrs Masebo): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me an opportunity to make a Ministerial Statement on Government’s approval of the 2007 Councils Annual Budget Estimates.

Mr Speaker, as you are aware, councils are required, under the Local Government Act, to prepare Annual Budget Estimates of Revenue and Capital Expenditure for each financial year running from 1st January to 31st December.

Mr Speaker, the Central Government’s powers to approve the Council Annual Estimates of Revenue and Capital Expenditure are drawn from Section 39 (1) of the Local Government Act, Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia, which empowers the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to approve Councils’ Annual Budget Estimates.

Mr Speaker, in approving the 2007 Council Annual Budgets, my ministry considered the policy guidelines that were issued to all the seventy-two councils in Zambia in line with the vision and aspirations of President Mwanawasa, SC., and his MMD Government. The guidelines issued by my ministry to all local authorities are contained in the Ministerial Circular No. MLGH/102/52/1, dated 10th October, 2006, which I now lay on the Table for the information of the hon. Members of Parliament.

Mrs Masebo laid the paper on the Table.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, one of the key guidelines was on the levels of expenditure as it related to service provision. Councils were directed to spend at least 40 per cent of their total council budgets on municipal services and 60 per cent of their total council budgets on personal emoluments and recurrent administrative costs. This was an improvement from a minimum of 30 per cent in the previous years, that is, from 2003 to 2006.

Mr Speaker, councils were also directed to come up with realistic budgets so as to ensure that incomes being projected would actually be collected. Councils were also instructed to ensure that only capital projects with confirmed funds should be included in their annual budgets. These are projects funded by the Government, donors and council internal resources.

Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the public, through this august House, that on Friday, 30th of March, 2007, the Government approved all the seventy-two submitted Council Annual Budgets. However, I wish to state that all council budgets were approved with amendments. These amendments were meant to bring the council budgets in line with the issued guidelines and also to take into account the Fifth National Development Plan and the National Budget.

Mr Speaker, it was noted that some councils had difficulties in attaining the minimum requirement of 40 per cent of the total budget for service provision because they had a huge wage bill which makes it difficult for them to have excess funds which can be channeled to service delivery.

Mr Speaker, for example, the Lusaka City Council had 41 per cent of its total budget going towards salaries and wages and a balance of 51 per cent which was being shared between meeting recurrent and operational cost and service provision which is at 36 per cent. This is less than the advised 40 per cent. This situation is of great concern to the Government because councils were established to provide services and not only to employ and pay staff as is the case in some councils. In approving the budgets, we have ensured that at least 40 per cent of the total budget goes towards service provision. We have managed to do this by making some adjustments within the budgets that were submitted to us.

Sir, my ministry has also engaged the Ministry of Finance and National Planning in dealing with old council debts so as to find ways and means of completely clearing off the debt, especially those relating to statutory bodies like the Local Authority Superannuation Fund (LASF), whereby councils owed K11 billion as of 31st December, 2006.

Mr Speaker, it was however, gratifying to note that most councils’ total budgets had increased when compared to 2006 council budgets. The budgetary estimates for 2007, in comparison to 2006, for all the seventy-two councils are shown in Appendix 1, which I will also now lay on the Table of this House for the information of hon. Members that would like to know exactly what their budgets of their individual district councils are.

Mrs Masebo laid the paper on the Table.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, you will note that the 2006 figures showing actual budget performance are actually not reflected in the statement which I have laid on the Table because all councils are currently preparing their Annual Financial Statements of the previous year, 2006, which are by law, expected to be finalised by June 2007.

Sir, it is important that councils deal with projects that are budgeted for, otherwise we will end up with unrealistic budgets with projects not starting due to lack of resources or uncompleted projects all together. It must be noted that all fees and charges that have been imposed by local authorities in formulating their 2007 Budget, which have now been approved by the Government shall remain in force for the whole of the 2007 period. However, councils are allowed, by law, to apply for Supplementary Estimates in which they may propose a further increase or reduction in fees and charges which shall be reflected in the Supplementary Budgets which will, however, still need to be approved by the Government in accordance with Section 39 (2) of the Local Government Act, Cap. 281 of the Laws of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, it is important that hon. Members understand this so that we do not come up with popular decisions when we go back to councils to begin trying to reduce fees and charges that have been imposed by various councils so as to gain a political mileage. These are issues where budgets have been approved and it means the budget has to run throughout the year, 2007.

Sir, local authorities were also directed to ensure that they come up with an Activity Based Budget which means all activities to be undertaken must be budgeted for if we are to promote efficiency, accountability and transparency in the utilisation of public funds. However, it was noted that the councils’ Activity Based Budgeting format still has to be developed further to conform with Government Medium Term Expenditure Framework (MTEF) and the Activity Based Budgeting model.
 
Mr Speaker, you are aware that Section 45 (1) of the Local Government Act provides that the Government shall make grants or loans available to councils for development in their respective constituencies on such terms and conditions as may be determined by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. Section 45 (2) further states that any constituency development grant or loan made by the hon. Minister under this section shall be paid out of moneys appropriated by Parliament for a purpose.

It is gratifying that while councils had in their 2007 Estimated Budget provided K 60 million per constituency, going by past allocations, this August House has in the 2007 Budget proposed an increase of K 200 million per constituency. This will, indeed, go towards improving the welfare of our communities. To this effect, we have directed councils to increase their budgets by K 200 million per constituency pending adoption by this Parliament. The Government, through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing, has since sent new revised Constituency Development Fund (CDF) Guidelines which have, in effect, given councils more powers to manage the funds to ensure maximum accountability, transparency and efficiency.

Mr Speaker, I lay on the Table of this House, the revised CDF guidelines for the information of the hon. Members of Parliament. The hon. Members will recall that one key revision in the CDF guidelines of December, 2006, relates to the identification of projects to be funded. This shall still remain the sole responsibility of the CDF Committee, subject to the approval of the council in conformity with the District Development Plans.

However, the implementation of the adopted projects, that is, sourcing of contractors or suppliers and the actual payments for works that will be done, will be exclusively implemented by the council managements, using the normal council tender procedures and the Local Authorities Financial Regulations of 1992. This means that no Members of Parliament will go around searching for their relative-contractors to do works arising from the CDF Fund. As I have always said, these guidelines are meant to save you, Members of Parliament.

Mr Speaker, councils have further been directed that the preference of projects to be financed by CDF funds should mainly go towards the education, health and agriculture sectors. We are trying as much as possible to move away from small arrangements under clubs and little projects where you end up re-supplying resources.

You are aware that councils owe various institutions like the Zambia Revenue Authority(ZRA), LASIF, Workers Compensation Fund, Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation(ZESCO), ZAMTEL, water companies and other private institutions, including legal firms and retirees. As of 31st December, 2006, a total of K55 billion was owed to the councils by various institutions. In terms of retirees and retrenchees, a total of K127 billion was owed as of 31st December 2006.

My ministry, in approving the 2007 Budget, has instructed all councils to ensure that sufficient allocations are made towards reducing its local debts. The Government, on its part, shall endevour to provide grants towards reducing the outstanding council debts. To this effect, a provision of K102.7 billion has been provided under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to help councils deal with their recurrent obligations and financing capital projects. We hope that the public can begin to notice some improvements in our councils in terms of service delivery in 2007. To this effect, 2007 has been declared as the ‘Year of Action for Local Government’. We only hope that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning will ensure that monies approved by Parliament for councils shall be released in full and in time.

Mr Speaker, as earlier indicated, we have engaged the Ministry of Finance and National Planning in dealing with the old council debts so as to find ways and means of completely clearing off the debts, especially those relating to statutory bodies like LASIF which councils owe K11 billion as of 31st December, 2006.

Councils are also owed huge sums of monies by various institutions and individuals, especially in form of property rates. Some of these debts are so old that it is unlikely that councils will manage to collect them. In some cases, it has become more expensive for councils to collect monies owed to them. The affected rate payers on the other hand are battling to make good of what is due to their councils, to the extent of becoming destitute when bailiffs pounce on them.

Mr Speaker, in the spirit of good governance and encouraging property rate payers to be current, the Government has directed councils to give a 50 per cent minimum rebate on all outstanding property rates as of 31st Decmber, 2006 and to reward those responsible rate payers who have in the past paid their rates in full and on time a 5 per cent discount on their total annual rates bill for the year 2007. This gesture by the Government to the rate payers who have defaulted for various reasons is on condition that they pay the 50 per cent balance of rate arrears in full, within six months, effective 1st January, 2007. If one fails to pay the balance of 50 per cent of the outstanding rate arrears, the council shall have the full right to enforce the provisions of the Rating Act to recover the original outstanding rates arrears due to them.

Mr Speaker, councils have also been directed to ensure that in 2007; they must be current in terms of their statutory financial obligations to other public institutions, like ZRA, LASIF, water companies and ZESCO, to mention only a few. Those councils that fail to be current due to poor management will not be supported with grants or loans by the Government.

Mr Speaker, my ministry is currently lobbying the Ministry of Labour and Social Security to exempt the councils from paying to the Workmen’s’ Compensation Fund on the understanding that councils are also public institutions with their own internal compensation system. Therefore, paying to the Workmen’s Compensation Fund for their workers, is actually a double payment by councils as they are required, under the Local Government System, to pay compensation to their workers in case of an accident. It is unfair considering that the amounts being assessed by the Workmen’s Compensation Fund are beyond councils’ budgets and that, in fact, no council worker has, on record, received any compensation from the Workmen’s Compensation Fund Board in the last fifteen years. It is further argued that the amounts paid out by the Workmen’s Compensation Fund Board, in case of an accident, are very low compared to the councils which pay the workers ten times his salary in case of an accident.

Mr Speaker, we hope the Minister of Labour and Social Security will use the powers under the Labour Laws to exempt councils, to save them from collapsing.

In terms of other outstanding debts not mentioned in this statement, councils have been directed to re-negotiate any such outstanding debts and come up with a plan of action to liquidate such debts. Councils have further been directed to, at least, make a reasonable provision to settle these outstanding debts in this year’s Budget. This plan shall be forwarded to the Provincial Local Government Office and the ministry.

The issue of high outstanding legal debts owed by councils is of great concern to the Government. Most councils have various pending cases in courts, ranging from staff matters, to matters relating to councils owing individuals, private and public institutions. In the past, councils lost equipment like graders, vehicles, etc, as a result of default court payments. The Government, in an effort to save councils from total collapse as a result of these court cases, brought out a Bill to protect councils against seizure of council properties by bailiffs. Although this has, in many aspects, saved councils, it is not a solution to the problems arising from the so many legal cases pending against local authorities today. I would like to guide my colleagues who are members of councils to be very cautious, especially when they want to fire Chief Officers. Ensure that you follow the laid guidelines. This is because there is a tendency by senior councillors, Members of Parliament, including hon. Ministers, when they go into these councils, to start thinking that they are very senior and carelessly begin to fire these officers. When we end up in court, we lose many cases. In fact, we have lost 99 per cent of the cases. Therefore, we would like to guard against this and ensure that officers are treated within the laws provided.

Mr Speaker, councils which had not budgeted for ward development funds have also been advised to ensure that certain resources are ear-marked specifically for development at the ward level. However, many councils did budget for ward development funds and my ministry will soon issue specific guidelines on the utilisation of these ward funds to ensure transparency and accountability.

Mr Speaker, councils have also been directed to specifically allocate some reasonable amounts for two new programmes. One programme is the Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme, which shall be implemented three times in each year by cities, towns and villages to help clean up their surroundings and institutionalise cleanliness, environmental and health issues. The other programme is the Local Government Week Programme which seeks to get citizens to learn, understand and appreciate the role of councils and their obligations both as individual citizens and corporate entities.

Mr Speaker, I want to send a notice to the public that under this programme “The Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme”, we shall continue in ensuring that the lawlessness that is prevailing in our country is stopped. To this effect, I want to warn all those who are on the streets that the exercise of removing street vendors across the country will continue, and very vigorously this time around.

Mr Speaker, councils have been directed to freeze contracting of any new debts, including effecting any further retrenchments, effective 1st January, 2007. The Government, working with other co-operating partners, in particular, JICA, is this year going to validate all outstanding debts up to 31st December, 2006 to ensure transparency and accountability.

Mr Speaker, the Government is determined to deal with the local council debts in order to reduce poverty and improve the lives of the communities.

Mr Speaker, in approving the budget, we have directed councils to improve collection of personal levy by carrying out assessments and also to ensure that all those involved in trading business of any kind, where possible, be issued with a trading licence. Councils have been directed to ensure that physical inspections of all areas and traders are done to ensure compliance with the law.

For example, we have a situation where the Southern Water and Sewerage Company Limited owes K12 million in unremitted personal levy deducted from their workers’ salaries. This situation is common among a number of institutions and it is unacceptable. For those that fall under my ministry like the water utilities, my ministry will cut from the utility’s company’s grant and remit it to the Livingstone City Council in the case of the Southern Water and Sewerage Company to ensure that they are current in what they owe to the local authority. In the same vein, as earlier stated, all councils must be current with their 2007 obligations, including water bills.

Mr Speaker, as we are concluding debate on the National Budget, I want to take advantage of this to say that since the provincial heads are in this House, they must help us to ensure that the Government institutions pay for facilities that are offered by other quasi Government institutions. It will not help to see people use their positions because you are a Provincial Minister or a District Commissioner to direct these institutions not to enforce collection of money. I would like to inform you that as hon. Minister responsible for these institutions under my ministry, I shall not allow anybody from any other ministry, whether you are a District Commissioner or not, to interfere in the work of these public institutions.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: We, ourselves, must have discipline within the Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: We cannot be using our positions to deter other Government institutions from collecting monies from other utilities.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo:  Mr Speaker, councils have been reminded to ensure that their approved budgets are open to the general public for scrutiny, including Monitoring and Evaluation. This is a transparent Government and we want to ensure that everything we do is open to the public. The Government has further reminded councils to ensure that they expand works according to their budget otherwise the Government will charge any principal officer or Chief Officer for not advising or wrongly advising a council resulting into making a wrong expenditure. This would also include suspending a council if councillors disregard the legal advice of the principal officer or, indeed, the Government in its budget implementation process.

Therefore, do not come up with wild projects which are not budgeted for in your budgets. You should ensure that only those programmes that have been adopted by your councils and, now, approved by the Government shall be implemented. Do not go upstream, especially Dr Guy Scott, and throw your weight around.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo went off the microphone.

Interruptions

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I just want to advise my hon. Colleagues, because it is very common for a number of my colleagues, and this is not just my colleagues on the left, but all of us that when we go in these councils, we must understand that the Mayors, as Chairpersons, are the leaders of those local authorities. Therefore, whether you are hon. Minister, Deputy Minister, hon. Member of Parliament or National Secretary of some party, do not join the councils and bulldoze these people. No! You are under them.

Laughter

Mrs Masebo: When you go out to your political parties, yes, you can be National Secretary and you can say that in the councils. Do not run the councils as individuals becuase councils are corporate entities and no single person can influence and bulldoze others and want to use political parties to expel others and suspend them. Please, help me because we are in this game together to serve the public. We should also work together to ensure that these councils deliver services. As I have always said, if your local authorities are not provided with basic services, it means that you, as a Government and, indeed, as an MP, are doing nothing and we shall all be judged harshly at the end.

Mr Speaker, I want to conclude by stating that the 2007 Councils Budgets have been approved with amendments in order to bring councils’ budgets in line with the Central Government’s policy, priorities and the citizen’s aspirations as articulated in Vision 2030 and the Fifth National Development Plan and the 2007 proposed National Budget.

In this regard, all councils have been directed to ensure that their activities, programmes and projects are in line with the approved 2007 Annual Budget.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Quality!

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Members may ask questions on points of clarification, which the hon. Minister raised in her statement.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, it is one of the advantages of being mentioned because one catches the attention of the Chair. Can it be clarified by the hon. Minister whether she considers councillors and, of course, this includes Mayors, are not subject to political party discipline in the same way as hon. Members of this august House? Are they not subject to be disciplined by their parties?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I want to use this opportunity to advise my hon. Colleagues, especially those in the Opposition, that, indeed, the councillors who are members of the council have the right to appear before them for any party disciplinary issue. This does not relate to their performance in the councils because when they are in the councils, they cease to be partisan and they are guided by the regulations of the Local Government Act.

Mr Speaker, we cannot have a situation where, on one hand – only the Government, through the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, can issue regulations on the day-to-day operations of local councils. Now, we have a situation where the PF also wants to issue a contrary code of conduct for councillors to the extent where they tell them that the party takes precedence over council meetings. That is against the law and, to that extent, that is anarchy.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that no worker has benefitted from the Workmen’s Compensation Fund for fifteen years, is not possible for the Government to stop councils contributing to this fund so that money can be used for other services in our councils?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, at the moment, it is not possible because the law says that councils must remit monies to the Workmen’s Compensation Fund. In the Labour Law, there is a proviso that is provided which gives powers to the Minister of Labour and Social Security to exempt any such institution that appeals. As a ministry, we have appealed to the Minister of Labour and Social Security to exercise his discretion to exempt local authorities because in his definition, he has not defined local authorities as public institutions. As a result, this has partly caused the loss of finances in councils. They are remitting so much money to Workmen’s Compensation Fund (WCF), but at the end of the day, there is really nothing much they are getting from there.

Mr Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, I thank the Minister for Local Government and Housing for her elaborate ministerial statement. Following the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) guidelines she has laid on the Table, can she now be categorical? Are members of the CDF Committee who are community based and have to cover a distance of seventy kilometres to go to the councils, entitled to subsistence allowance when they attend these meetings? In Katete there is a different situation.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, we have issued a guideline in the guidelines that a percentage which is being deducted from the CDF will go towards administrative costs. In this case, administrative costs includes calling for CDF Committee meetings, transport and accommodation for those members that are coming from distant places and have to spend a night. It also includes food, but not allowances.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chilembo (Chama North): Mr Speaker, does the ministry owe Lusaka City Council any moneys in terms of rentals? If so, how much is it? When does it intend to settle that debt.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, that question has come several times here, especially from the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabwata (Mr Lubinda) and I have answered it, but I would answer the new Member of Parliament that the ministry does not owe the council any money. It is not possible for the ministry to owe its own baby.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, service delivery in our councils is very cardinal. Our councils have been personalised because Chief Officers have over stayed and service delivery has suffered. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there is any consideration to transfer some of these Chief Officers to some other towns.

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, the issue of transfer of staff has been discussed at various fora and the ministry has consulted. We took a decision, as a ministry, after consulting the Local Government Association, LASIF, the Zambia United Local Authorities Workers’ Union (ZULAWU) and other institutions under Local Government and came to the conclusion that we needed transfers. To that effect, we have taken a proposal to the Office of the Attorney-General to ensure that a Statutory Instrument is issued to effect transfers for Local Government administration.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I have a follow-up question to Hon. Ngoma’s question. When you talk of 10 per cent for administration, now that money has been increased to K200 million from K60 million, is it still the same 10 per cent?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, as far as the guidelines are of now, it is still 10 per cent. However, it is a matter that I could take back to Cabinet for further consideration in future.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mschili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, councillors from Mungwi and Kabwe, the Deputy Mayor for Kabwe and the Chipata Mayor are about to be suspended. Can the Hon. Minister tell this House why she is dramatising the suspension, let alone the expulsion of our PF Mayor in Lusaka?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, I heard about that story that an attempt by a lower organ of MMD Party suspended the Mayor of Chipata. I got this information today. However, my position does not change because of the name of the party. The position still stands. I have advised that parties should not use councils to settle political scores. This is why I have an issue as to whether we should continue to allow parties to suspend and expel councillors on account that they did something wrong politically. In terms of the Local Government Act, they are right and can be protected. The Local Government Association is studying this matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I appreciate the effort the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing is making to harmonise the indebtedness in councils. I want to find out whether the hon. Minister is also looking at the issue of allowances for councillors. They are so low and they have been discussed in this House before. In Namwala, the transport cost is twice that of a day’s allowance for a councillor. Are you looking into this so that you can attract quality human beings to serve as councillors in local councils?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, in my view, to attract quality persons to stand as councillors does not depend on how much allowance to pay. We should just criticise these councils. We are looking at various allowances that are paid to the councillors, Chairperson and Mayors and I hope that by the time we come back, next sitting, we will have a good answer on that matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs J. Phiri (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, I just want to find out from the hon. Minister how often they audit the councils because we have seen the tendency of these councils to misappropriate project funds. How often do they audit the councils?

Mrs Masebo: Mr Speaker, according to the law, we are supposed to audit at least once every year for the normal annual audits. However, we can make spot audits if any issue arises or if we hear that somebody has misappropriated Constituency Development Fund (CDF) funds, the ministry has powers to appoint an auditor to verify and take appropriate action just there and then.

I thank you, Sir.

__________

QUESTIONS

DELAYED PROBATION PERIOD

389. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Education why confirmations of teachers on probation were delayed for more than a year when the stipulated probation period was only six months.

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, according to the governing regulations with regard to confirmation, teachers on probation are supposed to be confirmed after serving for a period of six months. Many teachers are confirmed within that period, but there are some instances where the confirmation process is delayed due to procedure to be followed from the school to the District Education Board Secretary, the Provincial Education Office to headquarters and eventually to the Teaching Service Commission. In some cases, the delays are caused by incomplete documentation to process the confirmation whereas, in some cases, it is the appraisal that may not be done on time by the supervising officer at school level.

However, my ministry is committed to minimise such delays so that teachers are confirmed within the stipulated time frame.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Education aware that this trend of not confirming teachers within six months as stipulated by the General Orders has an adverse effect on the serving teachers?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, we are very much aware that delays in the confirmation of teachers can result in de-motivation on their part and that is why I said that we are doing everything possible to minimise such delays.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

REHABILITATION WORKS AT ZNBC

390. Mr Kambwili (Roan) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services when rehabilitation works at the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Mr D. Phiri): Mr Speaker, rehabilitation of the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) buildings and network systems is an on-going exercise which started in the late 1990s. Given the scale of buildings and network facilities ZNBC uses for its operations, a lot of financial resources are required to undertake the required facelift and re-equipping. In order to arrest the deterioration, a phased implementation approach has been adopted.

Mr Speaker, to keep modernising without compromising on the mission of delivering qualitative programmes on radio and television throughout the Republic of Zambia, the rehabilitation of ZNBC buildings has been restricted to studio and transmitter buildings, as well as staff houses.

Some of the major works include the following:

(i) The rehabilitation of the leaking roofs at Mass Media Complex by erecting false roofs over the concrete roofs. This work has not been completed but is being done in phases due to the huge areas involved. This work started three years ago and is continuing;

(ii) In 2000 and 2001 a number of transmitter buildings were rehabilitated and these include Kasama where a new radio transmitter building was constructed, Chipata where a new TV transmitter building at Kanjala Hill was erected as well as Mongu, Kapiri Mposhi, Mansa, Solwezi, Short Horn Transmitters in Lusaka West and Mpika stations which all got a face lift;

(iii) Most recently, the painting of the administration offices, radio studios, TV transmitter building and energy centre building at Mass Media Complex;

(iv) Rehabilitation of selected staff houses at Short Horn and Twin Palm transmitter stations where ZNBC has institutional houses. These houses were selected on the basis of being in a very bad state. This has been going on in the last four years; and

(v) Water Reticulation Project currently going on at the Mass Media Complex.

With regard to the networks, the emphasis is not on rehabilitation, but rather on replacement of network facilities with modern equipment to meet the current trends in broadcasting, such as introduction of digital based facilities.

Mr Speaker, key examples include the following:

(i) The digitalisation of six recording and three On Air Studios at Lusaka and one recording studio at Kitwe in 2005;

(ii) The replacement of the analogue editing suites with non-linear editing facilities at Lusaka and Kitwe in 2004, 2005 and 2006;

(iii) The replacement of the old problematic valve TV transmitters at Mpika, Solwezi, Mumbwa and Kasama with all solid state TV transmitters;

(iv) The replacement of the 10KW FM valve transmitters with 3KW all solid state FM transmitters at Lusaka and Kitwe in 2004/2005 respectively; and

(v) The rehabilitation of the water chiller studio cooling system in 2006.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that ZNBC Mass Media Complex has been leaking terribly in most of the corridors and the ceiling boards are coming off. Does it require waiting until they finish working on the studios to attend to the leakages?

Mr D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, I was clear on that issue. I did indicate that there is work going on with regard to repairing the leaking roofs. In fact, what is happening now is that we have put a cover on top of the concrete roof to stop that leakage.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Speaker, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation is not only the Mass Media Complex and as such I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when ZNBC in Kitwe last received a facelift and how many housing units for the workers have been worked on.

Mr D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, not too long ago, I undertook a tour of ZNBC Kitwe Studios and I must state that I was very happy with the condition in which ZNBC Kitwe is because rehabilitation works had just happened when I was there.

With regard to the number of staff houses that have been rehabilitated there, I am not in a position to state exactly as that is a new question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

__________

MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS 20, 21(1) AND 101

The Vice-President (Mr R. B. Banda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 20 and 21(1), if necessary, and Standing Order 101 be suspended to enable the House to complete all business on the Order Paper and all matters arising there from and that, on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.

Mr Speaker, I am moving this motion in order to conclude the Business of the House which commenced on 23rd January, 2007 and to allow hon. Members return to their constituencies and offices to implement the fiscal policies that are contained in this year’s budget.

Sir, the fact that we are concluding business in April instead of March indicates that this meeting of the House has been one of the longest and busiest.

Sir, as of today’s sitting, the House will have been sitting for a total of 43 days. During this period, 353 questions reached the Order Paper and were ably answered by Cabinet Ministers and their Deputies. In addition, nine Government Bills were presented and considered by the House. The House also considered three Private Members’ Motions, two subjects for debate on the Adjournment Motion and one motion to adopt a report of a Select Committee.

Furthermore, a total of thirty-eight annual reports from Government and quasi-Government departments were tabled and seventeen ministerial statements explaining Government policies and clarifying issues raised by hon. Members were also made during this meeting.

Mr Speaker, in addition to the business I have outlined above, the House, by the end of today, will have considered and voted for the monies required for serving all developmental projects in the country. To hon. Members, I say this is a job well done.

Mr Speaker, this meeting of the House will best be remembered as a learning phase, particularly for all the new hon. Members and for me in my capacity as Leader of Government Business in the House. We had to grapple with the challenge of adjusting to a changing parliamentary environment and adapting to the various procedures relating to the budget process, questions, motions, Bills and procedures relating to parliamentary etiquette. It is gratifying to note that we have gone through this process with diligence and enthusiasm. However, the learning process has not been easy and, on some occasions, we had to agree to disagree. This is how it should be in a parliamentary democracy.

Mr Speaker, when we met to consider this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure, I did not expect an easy time with our colleagues in the Opposition. However, from the smooth flow of the debates and consideration of the Votes of Expenditure, one can clearly see the strong bonds our multi-party democracy has developed and I am delighted to work with such a team in the Opposition, which is very resourceful and constructive.

Mr Speaker, the manner in which business was conducted in this House is a clear testimony of our determination, as a House, to resuscitate the economy regardless of our political differences.

Mr Speaker, time has now come for hon. Members to go back to their constituencies and reflect on the challenges that have been brought to bear by the worst floods in living memory.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: As hon. Members are aware, a total of forty-one districts have been adversely affected by the floods, making it difficult for the Government to distribute relief food, drugs and other supplies. A number of our roads have become impassable with bridges being washed away, while a number of houses have been destroyed by the heavy rains. As a result, many Zambians have been displaced and rendered homeless. It is, therefore, important that hon. Members have a break in order to assess the situation and, thereafter, assist the Government with the task of working out modalities for resolving these problems.

As I conclude, Mr Speaker, I would like to express my gratitude to you, Mr Speaker, Madam Deputy Speaker and the Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the whole House for the efficient and impartial manner in which you handled the business of the House. I also commend the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the excellent service they have continued to render to the House.

Let me equally take this opportunity to express my personal gratitude to Cabinet Ministers, my officers in the Office of the Vice-President and other Government ministries for the efficient manner and guidance they have rendered to me since I took office a few months ago.

To you all, I say keep it up.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Before I say any further debate, I just wish to remind the House that the motion is straightforward as it is to enable you to resolve in such a way that you complete all the matters you see on the Order Paper, not to re-open cross country debate which you have done already.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, I will be brief knowing that there is a lot of work to be done this evening.

Sir, this has been a very productive session and we look forward to coming back and I hope that we will see His Honour the Vice-President more often on Friday in the House so that we can continue with the questions to him.

Sir, I said it has been productive. The people of Zambia are looking forward to a better deal from its resources. We, today, later this evening, will finalise two important Bills, the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2007 and Mines and Minerals (Amendment) Bill, 2007. Now, we have empowered the Government to go out there and catch something - in the language of fishermen. We have given fishing nets and a boat and the necessary support to our Government through the hon. Ministers to go out there and ensure that they catch something for the family - the family being Zambia. It will not do when we come back somewhere in July or August to be told that nothing has been achieved. That will not be acceptable for the people of Zambia and certainly not on this side. So, I would like, as we go, we are very hopeful, we urge the Government to do all they can to ensure that there is something for the people of Zambia to look forward to.

Sir, the hon. Ministers has belaboured the issue of ZANACO. We will wait and see. Obviously, we are not very happy that it has gone. We will wait and see what is going to be happening. Remember, the people of Zambia were opposed, this House was opposed to the sale of ZANACO, and we are watching.

Mr Mtonga: Zoona!

Dr Machungwa: So, whoever is working with ‘Robber Bank’, let them make sure that the interest of Zambian people is prime.

Sir, one issue that has been coming before this House before through Presidential speeches and assurances, is the issue of the Pedicle Road. I am disappointed that in the budget for the Ministry of Works and Supply and under the National Roads Agency, there is nothing. One would have hoped that we should have put in something to put into effect the various statements and assurances made by His Excellency the President in this very Chamber on more than two or three occasions, and elsewhere in the country, that work would start on the Pedicle Road. We are still watching. We hope that work on the Chembe Bridge will be expedited now that the rains are finishing and we hope that, soon after, work on the Pedicle Road will begin.

Sir, there is one issue that I want to mention. This is the issue of investigations and accidents. Recently, we have had some misfortune where a lot of our transporters have been involved in accidents. The Ministry of Communications and Transport, in some cases, has reacted by canceling or suspending licences of those companies who are involved. Whereas I think it is important to ensure safety, it is also necessary that due processes and investigations are fully followed before action like this is taken. In the case of the most recent accident involving CR Carriers Bus Services, this is a company that has a highest number of buses in the country. Statistically, even when we had United Bus Company of Zambia (UBZ), they used to have quite a number of accidents considering the fact that they had more vehicles around the country.

Therefore, if an accident happens, it does not augur well to suspend or cancel licences. It is important that we study what has caused the accident and take necessary measures to stop that, but if we begin acting against our own companies, then it is becoming extremely difficult. We know that accidents have happened elsewhere like, for example, the BGRIM accident in Chambishi. Recently there was the pollution of the Kafue River by Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). These are big and powerful companies, and yet, we did not stop them from operating. The Government has to be fair to our own companies instead of treating them like non-citizens or aliens from somewhere while treating the foreign investors as people who cannot make a mistake. We cannot go on like that.

Finally, I would like to urge His Honour the Vice-President to push his officers, especially in the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit because certain parts of this country have a lot of problems with regard to the drought and floods. My area, as I indicated, is one that has been so greatly affected and I know that His Honour the Vice-President will do something about it. However, I want him to know that the chiefs and the people there are expectant. I would like to report to them favourably that he is doing well. Otherwise, I will be a very sad person if, in the next two to three weeks, nothing happens. Then it will be very difficult for me to say that this Government is at least doing something. Otherwise, I will go and say that they are not doing anything. You know what that means and when people there say that you are not doing anything for them, it will be very difficult for the MMD.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ngoma (Sinda): Mr Speaker, I rise to support this motion. In so doing, allow me, looking back, to thank your team, the Clerk and management of the National Assembly for conducting the affairs of this first sitting of the Tenth National Assembly in a most dignified manner.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: Sir, I would like to thank you for chairing all matters that came under our deliberations in so just and faithful a manner and thereby promoting God’s honour and glory.

Mr Speaker, I also want to sincerely thank the new Vice-President, Hon. Rupiah Banda and President Mwanawasa for appointing him because in the first few months that he has been office, he has proved to be cool, calm, composed and collected.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: There has been no acrimony in this House and through his conduct, this nation has benefited a lot. Opposition and Ruling Party hon. Members of Parliament have been treated equally. It is true that wise men come from the East.

Hon. Members from East Province: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: Mr Speaker, we are going to our constituencies to inspect and provide checks and balances on the projects that are going on. I am leaving this place a very happy man.

On that score, I remember that four or five weeks ago, all hon. Members of Parliament received a letter from the President challenging Permanent Secretaries and other technocrats in Government to co-operate with hon. Members of Parliament. Further, Permanent Secretaries were instructed to release information about development to all hon. Members of Parliament. To me, despite not being a fan of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy, I support the President on that score.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: With such attitude, this country can see unprecedented development. In the past, we had lagged behind because information about development and release of money was shrouded in secrecy. How can hon. Members provide checks and balances if they lack information? All I can say is to thank the President on that.

Mr Speaker, in the same period, there was another letter from the Office of the Vice-President, Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit, written to all District Commissioners. It was a letter or a challenge to all districts in this country that they should work in harmony with hon. Members to develop this country.

Sir, I put it before you that a good number of District Commissioners have been a hindrance as far as development is concerned. They have chosen to fight against hon. Members of Parliament. This is so because some of them were appointed despite losing the race to Manda Hill. Therefore, this letter could not have come at a better time than this. Keep it up your Honour, the Vice-President.

Mr Speaker, however, as we are going to our constituencies, there is one fundamental issue which I believe every Member of Parliament is going to be faced with. This issue is that despite the MMD Government having made some strides here and there, the issue of the Constitution will face the hon. Members of Parliament as they go to their constituencies. Therefore, it is a challenge on the part of the Government that as the House adjourns today or tomorrow, they should look at this issue because the Constitution is not just about accepting a constituent assembly, but it is about correcting the entire governance of this nation. It is about bread and butter, education, health, water and everything you need to move Zambia forward. The adamancy and arrogance from the Government is not good because the Government is going against the majority or the wishes of the majority of the Zambian people. The people of Zambia do not need to beg the MMD to give them a new Constitution. The people have a right to demand for a just and new Constitution immediately.

Sir, the MMD and President Mwanawasa should not behave as though they hold the monopoly of wisdom and knowledge on this matter just like civil society and the Opposition should not appear to have the monopoly of wisdom. What we need is the Government to stop procrastinations. We need a new Constitution soon.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I support that we adjourn after completing business on the Order Paper today.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Shakafuswa): Mr Speaker, this is a straightforward motion, which I am surprised, is getting the attention of a lot of us. I would like to add a few words to thank you, Mr Speaker and the staff of the National Assembly for the manner in which you have run business in this sitting. I would like to thank His Honour the Vice-President and the people behind and besides him for the way in which they have responded to the concerns which have been raised by our friends on your left. It has really been a challenge. It is started with sizing each other up, but as we moved on, we settled down. Everyone realised that we had an onus and only had one country, which we want to move forward.

Sir, the bottom line is what is actually facing Africa. I just came from a meeting of all the Ministers of Finance, and Economic Development for Africa at which we looked at the plight of Africa. We discovered that we are facing a few challenges except for our people who struck gold which is gold and which is also black. They have managed to grow their economies at a growth rate which has translated into goods and services to their people.

In the case of Zambia, Mr Speaker, I know it is a challenge because we have to look at actually carrying our shoes from the cloth which we have got. Yes, consultations have come up on how we can actually exploit ways to make resources available to our people, but I would say from the Government and Ministry of Finance and National Planning side that those are challenges which we will put on the ground and we will say we mean well because the bottom line is about looking at all these challenges and not just being popular with our people. That is why we do not want to cheat our people. We want to tell the people that to be a successful businessman, you have to forego something so that you invest and be able to feed yourself from that investment. In Zambia, we can actually go one route and spend on consumption. However, the bottom line is that when we go flat, the Government will work on a programme where we can actually work with the Zambian people.

We have said that the macro-economic stability which we have and the fiscal stability we have managed to achieve have to be translated into results. The intention is to change the behaviour of all the Zambians. Zambians are very proud and bring down institutions. The root thing is to learn from what has happened with ZANACO. People are talking about ZANACO, but we forget that when we borrow, we do not pay back. This is the problem ZANACO has. A lot of us have also borrowed from the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ). Now, let us change the culture. Let us have an entrepreneurship attitude. Who is going to borrow and make sure that when you borrow money, you will develop for all the people? We have been saying that the Government should create employment, but where is the private sector? The thing is that we must change the attitude because, as a Government, we are saying that the private sector is the vehicle now which is going to lead this country. Now, it has to start with us here whereby when we do businesses, let us not become rich overnight. Let us go back and do our businesses properly. If each one of us goes back and employs ten people and pays them well, that will be employment creation. The businessmen should not employ people on a casual basis. People stand here and talk and these are the same people who have buses, but they forget that the bus drivers they have employed are on casual employment. It has to start from a very small point of view.

Mr Speaker, yes, I know people will talk about the concerns which our nation faces, but let us face facts. We have to broaden the tax base and broadening the tax base is not just taxation of existing businesses , but it is the creation of new businesses which are going to enable the Government to have space where they can tax from.

Mr Speaker, the concerns from our people about the Constitution have been heard and they are straightforward. It is just that Zambians enjoy hiding from the finger. The Government would enjoy enacting the Constitution even tomorrow. Very much so. However, Zambians are not addressing just one question.

Mr Speaker, there is Article 79 which was added to the Constitution at the Cathedral of the Holy Cross meeting. How do we go about it? People have suggested that the only way we can go around it is by using the voters’ roll and this is the Referendum Act where somebody can dispute the outcome of the referendum.

Mr Tetamashimba: Yes.

Mr Shakafuswa: Someone will come and say that this was not representative because I am eighteen and above and eligible to vote, but I was not allowed to vote because of this and that and because you used the voters’ register at that particular time when you went for elections, I was 17 years 11 months. However, at the time when this was done, I was eligible. This is the question which we should ask ourselves as we go back to our constituencies and address. Some of you are determined to address Article 79 and, thereafter, what possible cases would come? We can have a referendum today. Tomorrow, someone will petition the referendum. What answers do we have?

Yes, we want, but a lot of money is needed to enact the Constitution. From the Ministry of Finance and National Planning’s point of view, I am going to ask. If you enact a Constitution which is going to have a road map, the Government will respond and the response is that we should not meander.

On Article 79, unless you say since we have a census in 2010, we can do with a part which is receipted to that which is Article 3. We can do with it later on and then we amend other issues. However, if we are supposed to open that, how do we go about it? I know those are the questions you are meandering on. The people want a good Constitution. I do not know which better Constitution in the country today people have benefited from because the Constitution is a complex issue.

There are people who wanted a change in the Constitution because they wanted a short cut of having Mwanawasa out of office. On the 50 per cent plus 1 which people are agitating for, no political party can get 50 per cent plus 1. It is just a way of speculating where people are thinking they can have a second chance. This is the truth, but we are saying let us have a Constitution which is going to stand the test of time. Let us not have a short cut, through the Constitution, to get into power. I think that is wrong. We should not just look at what short cuts we can have to have the power. If we are going to have a Constitution which is going to stand the test of time, let us have a Constitution without other thoughts behind us which will prejudice the harmony of the Constitution.

Yes, we know you cannot win the first round, but there is also the implication, of course, of running a second round. For a nation like Zambia, on its knees, you have to look at all those implications. I know other people are not happy to see a person like Shakafuswa flying a flag. You have to work hard to fly a flag and I am not saying…

Laughter.

Mr Shakafuswa: …this because I enjoy it, but the bottom line is that you should not look at who is in the office.

Mr Tetamashimba: Yes.

Mr Shakafuswa: The bottom line is, what are we doing at the moment to make the lives of the people of Zambia affordable? What are we doing collectively because, surely it is not for you to come into power because, maybe, you will perform less than the way I am performing? However, we have the mandate as we stand here that we need to wait for the Constitution. We have the mandate to deliver to the people of Zambia. As we go back to our constituencies, we should ask ourselves if we are able to deliver because we can talk about politics, but the bottom line is that Zambians are the ones suffering.

Yes, it may be enshrined in a good Constitution that everyone has the right to education. However, we will have to make resources available for it to be executed. What we should do as we go back is that instead of enjoying the fruits of our businesses, eating all our profits, let us invest our profits so that we also grow as businessmen and help our people and borrow more money from which the Government can get tax from and give the services to the people of Zambia. However, we cannot fail to say the truth on this matter from this side. We are open to discussions and, as I have always said, for those hon. Members who mean well, engage yourselves outside Parliament. If you think you have solutions, come to our offices because we are not running this Government on behalf of the MMD, but on behalf of the Zambians who gave us the mandate. You are also part of the Zambians and you should also add something which will make our Zambia become a better Zambia. If you feel fighting and pulling each other is the order of the day, you are mistaken. Zambia will always be our Zambia and you will never find second class citizenship elsewhere because we are Zambians.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Masiye (Mufulira): Thank you, Mr Speaker. I have got very little to say this evening because I understand that sometimes in a multitude of words, you can err.

Mr Speaker, it is comforting to note that His Honour the Vice-President acknowledged that he did not expect an easy time in this particular session since it was the beginning and there were so many new hon. Members. It is comforting to note that there are people who appreciate such things, but at the same time, being a novice does not mean that people do not develop and being a novice does not mean that people do not have qualities and that they are not knowledgeable.

People have a base and this is the foundation that they build on. It is very cardinal that our colleagues on the right recognise this because respect is not one way but mutual. When there is an input from the Opposition, it should not be deemed as a frustration to the Executive. They should appreciate that most of the things that we bring up in the House are not meant to frustrate them. Our interest is one - the people of Zambia. As the hon. Deputy Minister has just said, there is only one Zambia and there are no second class citizens. I agree with him and there is only one Parliament and no second class hon. Members of Parliament. We are all elected. It is very important that we appreciate this. If we, on both sides, can appreciate our roles, there will be very little conflict.

Mr Speaker, I am made to express these sentiments going by the fury that was expressed by our hon. Colleagues on the right on the Income Tax (Amendment) Bill which was considered on 28th March, 2007. It is very unfortunate that people stormed out of the House after we went to a vote. We are talking of democracy. We are representing the people of Zambia and it is my opinion that if one side seems to win, it is not the side that is benefiting but the people of Zambia. As such, that should be respected.

Mr Speaker, a budget remains a proposed plan until it is approved. I want to believe that our learned colleagues who prepare the budget do understand the Prudence Concept. I come from an accounting background and I believe in their efficiency and accounting as they are managing the accounts of the country. They should understand that going by the Prudence Concept, provision should be made for losses as soon as they are foreseen. Amendments are foreseen. His Honour the Vice-President conceded when he said, “Amendments were expected. We did not expect an easy time,” meaning, when a budget comes forth, amendments should be expected. They should be provided for and this should come in form of contingency plans. Instead of becoming emotional, furious and issuing threats, a good plan must have facets. It must have a facet of saying, “what if this does not work, which way do we take?” In case something falls out, like this particular amendment did, what do we do, where does the Government get money from? In that way a provision is made. To me that is a good plan.

This does not mean that I am insulting the opinion of the people on the other side. All I am saying is, please try to understand and appreciate that we mean well. As I said in the beginning, we have our different roles and it is important to acknowledge the different roles that we play. That amendment has been appreciated by some people and we did not expect the people on the right to appreciate it because it gave them extra homework, but that is what we came here for; to work, look at alternatives and find the money somewhere. If they appear to be willing to get proposals from this end, the hon. Deputy Minister just said, ‘come to our office and give us ideas.’ It is my hope that when these ideas are given to them, when people take courage and go to their offices, they are not go to be thrown out just because they are coming from the opposition.

Going by the attitude in the House, what guarantee are we given that when we go to their offices they will acknowledge us? This does not mean that we are not welcome to these offices. It is something else to say, ‘you are welcome,’ but what matters most is the action taken afterwards. There are so many hon. Members here, who are mourning about the distribution of relief in areas affected by floods and you will note that most of the hon. Members on the right were assisted. This does not mean that the hon. Members on the left did not lobby for assistance. They did and were assured but action speaks louder than words. We have one Zambia, there are no second class citizens or hon. Members of Parliament and it is, therefore, my sincere hope that our colleagues on the right should learn to co-exist because it is cardinal. With these words, I beg to submit that I support the motion to adjourn sine die.

Thank you, Sir.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): I will not be on the Floor for a long time. I just want to say that in every sitting of Parliament, there is no day that is as good as today when we have to start thinking seriously about our constituencies. We have been missing from our constituencies for a long time and we are taking home the budget to fully explain what will happen in Zambia, as a country. There is nothing better than explaining the budget to the constituencies.

Mr Speaker, the reason I have stood up is that in this term of office for this Government, I see a very serious Cabinet consisting of the men and women that have been appointed to these positions. I would like to assure the country that this is the time that this Government has started working and people should expect to see most of there needs satisfied. What we really need to see is that we work together with everyone else, especially the people that are not found in this House. The people that are found in this House are able to discuss and agree but it is the people who are not here that need to understand what we really need to do. It is for this reason that we are being given an opportunity to interact with the rest of the people in the country.

I would like to appeal to the nation that this Government means well and we are going to perform as expected.

I thank you, Sir.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to say a few more words after the hon. Members who have spoken. I would like to begin by reminding ourselves of what you, Sir, advised us at the very beginning. We have debated very well in this House and many points have been brought out and there is no need to repeat them tonight. Hon. Machungwa, I thank you so much and I want to repeat what I said yesterday that you are a very good hon. Member of Parliament, who at all times tenaciously represents his people. Even you when you have got the answer you repeat it so that they know that you were up to the last bell in Parliament. I can assure you that the Government is listening. As regards to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), you are free to come to the office. On Tuesday, you must go there and get what you need as you have already agreed with the DMMU. I would say the same thing to many hon. Members who have raised the issue of relief. Hon. Ngoma thanks for the compliments. I do not think the Bembas agree with you when you say the wise men come from the East but when they meet our women, they accept that temporally.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Thank you for the support. I am just worried about the threat that you gave to this House that we might finish the business by tomorrow. I hope you did not mean it. I see that many hon. Members are tired and ready to go back to their constituencies early tomorrow morning. This means that we must finish the business as soon as possible. I thank you all once again. Hon. Shakafuswa, with his robust debate, is such that when he stands up, the Opposition start wondering whether he is going to attack from the left or the right.

I see that, like Rooney, the football player from Manchester United, you will agree with me that he is maturing and he is much more accommodating to the Opposition. I heard many of you say, “Hear, hear,” when he said we have only one Zambia.

I would like to wind up by saying that the Government has heard all the points that the hon. Members have made this evening and during the general debates which have taken place during these three months when we have been here together and during the comments on the individual items of the Budget.

The Government will definitely take into account all those concerns which have been expressed here. As the Speaker has advised already, we need to go forward. Now that we have a Budget, we have a duty to go back quickly to our constituencies to explain the Budget. We have to hold hands with the Government and ensure that the money which has been allocated for development is used exactly for that.

I wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, for all the guidance that you have given us from the beginning up to now and I am sure that hon. Members are going back satisfied that they have been given equal chance to articulate the concerns of their constituencies.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to.

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

______

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2005), BILL

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Mr Speaker, following the approval of the Supplementary Estimates No. 1 of 2005 by this House that provided extra spending for a number of institutions for the financial year which ended on 31 December 2005, I was obliged to return to this House with necessary legislation to give effect to the resolution of the House.

The Bill before the House therefore, is intended to normalise the Supplementary Estimates for that year and this amounts to K453, 584,031, 243.

Sir, as hon. Members may be aware, the Supplementary Estimates were thoroughly debated at the time when they were presented before this House and I do not expect it to attract a lengthy debate.

I seek the support of this House.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene (Itezhi tezhi): Mr Speaker, your Committee were mandated to consider the Supplementary Appropriation (2005), Bill in line with article 117(4) of the Constitution of Zambia and their terms of reference were as set out at Standing Order No. 156.

Allow me, Sir, to brief the House on the proceedings, findings and recommendations of your Committee. In considering the Bill, your Committee requested controlling officers whose ministries and institutions had applied for and received supplementary provisions during the financial year 31st December, 2005 to provide explanatory memoranda as regards what necessitated the expenditures and to re-confirm the amounts quoted in the Bill.

Sir, your Committee also considered the legal ramifications of the Bill referred to them. In this regard your Committee noted that the object of this Bill was to confirm the expenditure, from the General Revenues of the Republic, of money spent for the services of the Republic during the financial year ended 31st December, 2005 in excess of the money appropriated for the services of the Republic by Appropriation Act No. 5 of 2005.

The amount spent as supplementary expenditure in the financial year ending 31st December, 2005 was a total amount of the K453,584,031,243.

Mr Speaker, your Committee further observed that the constitutional duty of the National Assembly in relation to the Bill is to confirm the Supplementary Appropriation as the figure was already presented to and approved by the National Assembly. Further, the Zambian Constitution is silent on the maximum amounts that can be spent under the Supplementary Budget.

Mr Speaker, in its simplest meaning, supplementary expenditure is additional funding provided to cover legally unavoidable expenditure overruns beyond the originally voted allocations in the Budget.

Mr Speaker, it is well known that in most, if not all, Commonwealth countries Parliament must approve the Budget and enact the Appropriation Bills authorising the Executive Branch of the Government to incur expenditures. Once the Appropriation Bill is in force, there is usually the mistaken belief that the Government obtains authority to execute the Budget without interference from the Legislature.

However, as is common knowledge, Parliament has the power to monitor the manner in which the Executive implements Budget decisions. Through its oversight function, Parliament must approve any changes to the voted Budget limits on all heads and this is done through the Supplementary Appropriation Bill.

Mr Speaker, supplementary expenditure has been a permanent feature of the Budget process in Zambia and instances of such expenditure abound. This illustrates the problem of the large supplementary spending that characterises public expenditure management and Budget execution in Zambia.

Since the supplementary expenditures occur before Parliament’s approval, such appropriation undermines Parliament’s role in the Budget process. In effect, they dilute the legal authority of Parliament in the performance of its oversight function over the Executive’s Budget implementation activities and actual Budget outrun significantly deviates from the original estimates. Ideally, therefore, the Bill should be presented before the actual spending takes place.

Mr Speaker, as I have stated above, in Zambia, Supplementary expenditure is recognised in the Constitution. Article 117(4) allows the Executive to adjust the appropriation Act as it sees fit as long as the report in the form of a Supplementary Estimate is tabled before the National Assembly within the prescribed period.

Specially, the hon. Minister responsible for Finance and National Planning has up to fifteen months after the end of the fiscal year to table before the National Assembly a Supplementary Appropriation Bill in relation to that year.

Thus, the Bill under consideration is in respect of the Supplementary spending over and above the expenditure limits set under the Appropriation Act for the 2005 Budget. This Bill has, therefore, been laid before the House in accordance with Article 117(4) (b) of the Constitution of Zambia. Once passed, the Supplementary Appropriation (2005) Bill will confirm the approval by Parliament of the supplementary expenditure incurred in that financial year. The passing of this Bill by the House would, accordingly, fulfill the Constitutional requirements afore stated.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, before we broke for tea, I was saying that this Bill has, therefore, been laid before the House in accordance with Article 117 (4) (B) of the Constitution of Zambia. Once passed, the Supplementary Appropriation 2005 Act will confirm the approval by Parliament of the supplementary expenditure incurred in the financial year. The passing of this Bill by the House would, accordingly, fulfil the constitutional requirements aforestated.

Mr Speaker, in the course of their work your Committee noted some matters which caused them serious concern. Some of these I now highlight for the benefit of the hon. Members of this august House.

(a) Supplementary Expenditure has been a major weakness in Zambia’s Public Expenditure Management System. This is a symptom of problems if budget preparation and execution, including particularly poor budget management as relates to cash rationing under the Cash Budget System that does not conform to the budget approved by Parliament;

(b) The problem of rampant supplementary spending also has roots in the ambiguities and inconsistencies in the legal framework itself. The constitutional provisions for supplementary spending are weak. Thus, Article 117 (4) seems to give the Executive a free hand to change the Appropriation Act by spending money prior to Parliament’s approval.

(c) Because of the weakness of the legal framework, supplementary expenditure occurs before Parliament’s approval. This undermines democratic accountability.

(d) Laxity in the legal framework has led to a situation where supplementary appropriations are often so large that they surpass the original Budget Estimates. In fact, your Committee are deeply concerned that on a number of sub-heads the percentages of supplementary provisions during the financial year in question were more than 100 per cent of the original estimates. The Supplementary Appropriation Act for 2005 has some clear examples of this. The National Registration Department of the Ministry of Home Affairs was originally allocated K12.7 billion in 2005. The supplementary appropriation amounted to K15 billion or 118 per cent above what was originally approved by Parliament. In the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the original budget allocation for the Political Affairs Department was K1.5 billion in 2005. The supplementary appropriation was K2.1 billion which was 140 per cent over and above the original approved estimates.

In the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, Parliament had approved K313.3 billion for Human Resource and Administration; supplementary expenditure in 2005 was K312.7 billion, a level of expenditure equal to 100 per cent over and above that originally approved by Parliament.

This situation is indicative of a very serious problem in the planning system, and renders the entire budgeting process irrelevant. While your Committee recognise that it is possible to have such large disparities, this should only be under very special circumstances, which are unforeseen at the time of budgeting. Your committee are of the strong view that the spirit of the Constitution in providing for the supplementary budget is not for it to derogate from the powers of Parliament to deliberate on and approve all expenditure of public funds.

(e) The need for supplementary funding in the financial year ended 31st December, 2005 arose largely due to the Civil Service salary increment and generally inadequate provisions in the original estimates.

(f) The Ministry of Foreign Affairs has a peculiar problem in that part of the ministry’s approved appropriation is lost through exchange losses as a result of the fluctuations in the exchange rates between the time of the budgeting and the time of remitting the fund to the missions abroad. Losses are also experienced due to the fact that funds are remitted to missions based in Europe in US Dollars, but has to be converted and spent in Euros and Pound. Your Committee also wish to express serious concern over the benefits, if any, being derived by the countries from the operations of some of the missions abroad. They strongly feel that the high costs involved in running and maintaining these missions can only be justifiable if their operations are relevant to the country’s development agenda.

(g) Except in very few cases (such as the exceptional situation of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs cited above) most of the activities funded through the supplementary budget are routine and, therefore, anticipated. These included costs associated with attending meetings, rentals, electricity and water bill, purchase of motor vehicles, office furniture, transport management, office administration, participation in World Aids Day including routine HIV/AIDS awareness activities, independence and labour day activities, transportation of diplomats , recalls as well as deployments, staff welfare and recreation, routine staff training, gratuities, repatriations, long tern bonuses and general administration or operational costs.

(h) Ministries and other spending agencies are often compelled to resort to supplementary provisions because ceilings given by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning are so low that the originally approved budget cannot meet the day-to-day operational costs of running the ministries and institutions.

(i) Your Committee are alarmed at the amounts being paid by Government ministries and departments as bank charges. They note that the amounts paid as bank charges are so high that they could, in some cases, actually be used to implement developmental projects in full. This is caused by over-reliance by the Government on the commercial banking system for almost all banking services.

(j) Your Committee note with concern that a number of controlling officers do not appear to have an in-depth understanding and appreciation of the financial regulations. As a result, their interaction with your Committee was unsatisfactory, to say the least. Your Committee feel that in these circumstances, competence in the management of public finances is severely compromised.

Your Committee, therefore, recommend as follows:

(a) As part of the programme for the reform of public expenditure management, the system of supplementary appropriations needs to be improved in the interest of promoting accountability for public finances and to enhance the oversight role of Parliament in the budget process. The weaknesses of the system are symptoms of poor budget management, which requires strengthening.

The legal framework should be strengthened so that Supplementary Estimates must have the approval of Parliament before any spending by line ministries occurs. The Parliamentary Committee System could be used at times when the National Assembly is in recess. This will require a constitutional amendment. In the same vein, the period of time within which a Supplementary Appropriation Bill must be submitted should be significantly reduced and the Constitution should be amended to set a limit on the amount that the Executive may incur as Supplementary Expenditure in any one financial year. The limit could be set between 5 and 10 per cent of the National Budgetary Expenditure Appropriated by Parliament in any given financial year. This will prevent ministries and other spending agencies from relying on supplementary appropriations, thereby reducing such expenditure and restricting its use to exceptional circumstances.

(b) The Contingency Fund administered by the hon. Minister responsible for Finance and National Planning should be comprehensively redefined to be the voted appropriation for all emergency expenditures.

(c) The Ministry of Finance and National Planning should, henceforth, set more realistic ceilings, through a consultative process with the various actors, during the pre-budget stage.

(d) The problems highlighted above with regard to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs should be resolved expeditiously. Your Committee also wish to advise that a comprehensive review of the benefits being delivered by the country from all Missions Abroad be undertaken as a matter of urgency and steps be taken to maintain only those missions whose cost benefit analysis turns out positive. In this regard, the possibility of maintaining a smaller number of missions and ensuring that they operate more efficiently and cost effectively while providing multifarious benefits of the nation should be explored.

(e) In future, supplementary provisions should not be used to finance routine and anticipated activities, many of which are outlined above.

(f) The Government should seriously and urgently consider cutting down on the use of commercial banking services and rely more on the Bank of Zambia so that the Central Bank can, once again, play its right role as a banker to the Government.

(g) The Government must ensure that all officers who are mandated to manage public resources, particularly controlling officers, are appropriately qualified and oriented to the relevant provisions of the law, the financial regulations and any other relevant procedures and regulations at all times.

Mr Speaker, let me end by emphasising that these issues call for urgent consideration. The situation as it stands now lends the system to abuse with the attendant problems of the breakdown of financial discipline, waste in the utilisation of public resources, poor service delivery by the public service, corruption and defalcation of public money. Reform is a continuous process and constitutional amendments should also be considered in the same way. 

Mr Speaker, these actions are essential in ensuring that the nation follows the appropriate direction in its development effort. In a nutshell, your Committee strongly recommend that the systematic planning and projection of the activities is necessary to avoid a huge supplementary Budget. They, however, note that as the constitution is the Supreme Law of Zambia, the inadequacies noted in relation to the current arrangements with regard to the Supplementary Budget may only be comprehensively and competently tackled during the Constitution review process.

Mr Speaker, allow me to pay tribute to all the members serving on your Committee for their dedication and hard work. I also wish, on behalf of your Committee, to thank all the witnesses who tendered both oral and written submissions. They, further, thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording them an opportunity to consider this Bill. In addition, I wish to thank the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for their unfailing assistance and services to your Committee throughout the deliberations.

Sir, lastly, your Committee wish to note and convey their appreciation for the role played by the consultant to the National Assembly in assisting with the analysis of the 2007 Budget and consideration of the Bill.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I am a member of the Estimates Committee and therefore, I have very little to add to the comprehensive report of the Chairman. I would like to say that we do appreciate the fact that the volume of Supplementary Estimates has been reducing over the years. We, therefore, appreciate and congratulate the hon. Minister for that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: However, those of us who own birds say that there is never a limit to how much tightening up you need to do to get things perfect. There were good and bad reasons for a Supplementary Estimates. The good and unavoidable reasons are that unexpected things may happen. Good things or bad things may happen. There may be a drought, floods or donors coming belatedly with some programme to boost education. All this has to change. The original estimates have to be changed. There are other good reasons that are slightly more settled. For example, one can hardly put in the budget at the beginning of the year, an estimate for expected wage increases in the Civil Service because this is tipping your hand and showing your cards to the people you are about to sit down and play cards with. One will always expect wage increases to be somewhat hidden.

Mr Speaker, there are also bad reasons. This includes indiscipline, bad budgeting and forgetting to put things correctly. As the Chairman mentioned, there is an issue of bad planning and poor professionalism in some quarters. We were very pleased with our interaction with some of the spenders. Some of them really did not even know what Schedule ‘C’ was or how to, sort of, calculate it. It actually shows the supplementary expenditures in a systematic way approved by this Government.

Sir, there are other bad reasons for supplementary spending. One is to try and hide, in the original estimates, anticipated levels of spending from organisations like the International Monetary Fund (IMF) who might be trying to hold your nose to a line. In the past, if we had cases, we had evidence left by witnesses. When we asked them if they did not realise that the ceiling put on this item by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning was far too long, they said, they did and they spoke to them. They further said that they should not worry and that they should go back towards the end of the year and they would give them a supplementary.

They even said that they were just trying to keep that out of public view. That is not an acceptable reason for incurring supplementaries deliberately - hiding anticipated expenditures from this House. It is a very serious matter. Is the IMF fooled, anyway? We may see a sudden cut in spending in one of the favourite ministries like the Ministry of Defence. Are they then going to be impressed when they see, six months later, the expecting Supplementary Expenditure being made? Let us be honest and be straightforward with ourselves. Let this House approve the best possible estimates of what is going to be needed ahead. This is one final thing I could clear up.

Mr Speaker, the question of wise men coming from the East has been mentioned several times in this House over this session. I just wanted to start with the Minister of Health and end with His Honour the Vice-President. I want to clear a matter of Biblical Scholarship. If His Honour the Vice-President will check a proper Bible, like the Old King James Authorised Version, not these modern mistranslations, he will discover that wise men came from all directions. It is just that the ones coming from the East got lost …

Laughter

Dr Scott…and required a satellite navigation system to be supplied by the Almighty, which he did in form of the famous ‘nyenyezi’, which he told them to follow.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Magande: Thank you, Sir for giving me the opportunity to wind up the debate on this very important Bill before the House. The report of your Committee is quite strong on some issues. However, I would like to say that I am not scared of what your Committee have written because one of their sentences here is talking about amending the Constitution. In fact, the last sentence under recommendations says the inadequacies noted in relation to current arrangements with regard to Supplementary Budget will only be comprehensively and competently tackled during the Constitution Review Process. I would like to say that we have discussed this issue of what items go into the Constitution in terms of financial management and we have come to this House and agreed that some of these have to be amended so that we are up o date with what is happening elsewhere.

Mr Speaker, let me say that I do not agree that there are rampant Supplementary Estimates. My judgement is that we had 49 Heads of spending in the Yellow Book and the Supplementary Estimates that we are presenting only had 24 Heads that actually had Supplementaries. Now, 24 out of 49 is just about 50 per cent. You cannot use the adjective ‘rampant’. It is not the whole Government system where we are providing for Supplementaries.

I would also like to appreciate the comment on the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. Only last week, I took time to explain the figures under the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. In this respect, the 300 million kwacha which is shown must have been payment for salaries for the whole Civil Service and we do it at the ministry. Therefore, it was not actually to compare the expenditure by the ministry for its own activities against the whole Government system. That comparison is obviously not correct.

Mr Speaker. I am at a loss when we were being advised to rely on the Bank of Zambia for our banking systems instead of the commercial banks. We have workers in Livingstone, Kasama and Chipata that have to be paid. We do not have branches of the Bank of Zambia in these areas. Therefore, what we do is actually transmit this money to the commercial banks’ branches in those towns so that our officers get paid It would be obviously quite important and easier if we could even pay the contractors in those areas, by way of decentralisation.

Mr Speaker, this House has been talking about payments to retirees, for example. We have been urged to decentralise payments to retirees. This means that we have to send this money to Solwezi, so that a retiree simply walks into a commercial bank branch to get paid. Therefore, we are not quite sure what this reliance on the Bank of Zambia would mean. It means, therefore, that everything would have to be concentrated on the Bank of Zambia.

I do accept, as the Chairman says, that there are some controlling officers who might not be conversant with some of these rules and as you are aware, some of these officers might have been appointed after our workshop. Unfortunately, we cannot have a workshop for one officer. However, the appointing letters are very clear and they are very long letters, perhaps up to ten pages, explaining the roles of a controlling officer. I do accept what my good hon. Member of Parliament for Lusaka Central says about the sealings, and that we must go for the best possible guess. However, as the hon. Member alluded to, some of these guesses become out of context within a short time. Let me say again, like I said last week, the ministry only gives sealings to the ministries and the spending agencies. The allocations of the activities are done by the ministries and that is beyond our responsibility. Therefore, if one of the controlling officers decides to suppress an expenditure in one of the activities in the hope of coming back to get a supplementary, we actually ask why, in the first place, they suppressed that particular budget line. Obviously, by that time money has already been spent and we just have to regularise it.

Mr Speaker, I would like to say I am grateful to your Committee and I hope that when we bring amendments to the Constitution, even without the Constituent Assembly, they will support us.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a Committee of the Whole House.

Committee today.

_________

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

THE SUPPLEMENTARY APPROPRIATION (2005) BILL, 2007

Clauses, 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Supplementary Appropriation (2005) Bill, 2007

Third Reading today.

REPORT STAGE

The Biosafety Bill, 2007

Report adopted.

Third Reading today.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Supplementary Appropriation  (2005) Bill, 2007

The Biosafety Bill, 2007

The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2007

The Mines and Minerals (Amendment) Bill, 2007

______

ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ARRANGEMENTS FOR DINNER

Mr Speaker: Order! Before, the House resolves into Committee, I have an announcement to make.

I wish to inform the House that the following arrangements have been made for dinner this evening:

(i) dinner for all hon. Members will be served in the National Assembly Restaurant, here, at Parliament Buildings;

(ii) dinner for members of staff and Government officials will be served at the terrace, Parliament Buildings. They will show you where that is;

(iii) dinner will be provided with the courtesy of the Hon. Mr Speaker; and

(iv) dinner break will be from 2000 hours to 2100 hours.

Hon. Members are required to be seated in the Chamber by 2100 hours. All Whips are requested to ensure that a quorum is formed at 2400 hours.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The Quorum should be formed at 2100 hours.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: I know that the House is fully aware.

Thank you.

_____

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Before I give the Floor to the hon. Member for Lukulu West, I want to remind hon. Members that if you recall, this Vote was about to be completed yesterday. Therefore, I will give you the Floor just for a warm-up before we move on.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 80/01 – (Ministry of Education – Headquarters – K1,885,094,406,427

(Consideration resumed)

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I want to draw the attention of the hon. Minister of Education to the question of gender in the rural areas. I want to raise this especially, now, that the ministry has embarked on buildings houses for teachers.

Sir, the female teachers are very few in number and when they are sent to rural schools, where there is not even accommodation, tend to come to town in one way or another by either getting married too quickly or seeking marriages so that they can come to the line of rail.

This deprives the rural girls of having interventions from female teachers. It also deprives the female students from having role models that they can emulate. I, therefore, want to urge the ministry to speed up the building of houses for teachers, especially for female teachers, so that these can even be found in our rural areas.

Sir, it is totally unsafe to allow female teachers, especially for those that have the generosity and are willing to continue to serve their vocations, to stay in places which are muddy and poor. I could mention some of the schools because some people think that I am just making up these stories. It is for this reason that I would like to challenge anyone to go to Limbowe. If you went there, you would find that teachers do not even have doors that lock. This is totally unsafe.

Mr Chairperson, teachers that have completed their training are so many, but they are not employed. May I suggest what they did in Ghana where, when you finish your training and you are waiting for posting, you can teach at a school that is the nearest to you. That is a form of national service. Instead of waiting for postings, maybe, they can be allowed to teach at some fee in their own localities so that they do not lose the things they have learnt. At least the number of people that will be served by these teachers will increase. We need to increase our literacy levels and there is no other way we can do it except use our trained teachers.

Finally, Mr Speaker, I am aware of Part IX of our Constitution, Articles 111 and 112 (e) which state that:

‘the State shall endeavour to provide equal and adequate educational opportunities in all fields and at all levels for all.’

Mr Chairperson, it is the responsibility of the Government to provide education at all levels and places.

As I wind up, I want to mention that this is enshrined in the ULP mandate that we will endeavour to provide education …

Laughter

Ms Imbwae: I am not campaigning but I am only giving an example …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Hear, hear!

Ms Imbwae: … so that a just and fair system of education can be availed to everybody in this country. Therefore, we will endeavour to lift the quality of education in any of the rural areas that are not served.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Chairperson, in supporting the budget, I would like to go back to the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) and remind ourselves of its strategies:

(i) We have to produce a learner who is knowledgeable, innovative and productive;

(ii) to link education and skills in the new curriculum; and

(iii) to link education and training to real life situations in societies and communities so far as they emerge to employment, livelihood and survival skills acquisition and application.

When we look at these strategies, the first thing that comes to mind is the curriculum. In the foregoing, it was addressed that a curriculum should be developed but in the budget we are not seeing development. When you talk of curriculum development, it means you are maintaining the status quo.

Mr D. Mwila: Quality!

Mrs Sinyangwe: However, when you look at the strategies, it requires us to develop a curriculum that is going to allow a child to be innovative and have skills. At the moment, what we are doing is that we are producing a learner to reproduce, at the end of the year, memorised sentences of an examination. After the memorising and they write their exams, what next? What skills do they have? We are producing a learner who should leave a classroom to go and look for a job but the Fifth National Development Plan is not saying that.

Mr Chairperson, I am, therefore, urging the hon. Minister to look seriously at curriculum development.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: The current curriculum removes the learners from what they can do for themselves, and stresses what can other people do for them. I do not think we would want to have learners of that nature. As a Government, you have failed to provide employment and, therefore, I agree with the FNDP that a child must be innovative and have skills. Therefore, we must look at the curriculum seriously.

Mr D. Mwila: Hammer! Hammer!

Mrs Sinyangwe: When you look at the money that the donors give us, the curriculum is not given that attention because a curriculum develops a person into being a useful human being. We want children to learn. We want Zambians who can think for themselves. We are tired of technical assistants who come to learn from us and get all the money when we can train a child who can do things for himself or herself.

The other thing I wish to talk about is that education should relate to society. This reminds me of one thing again, let us localise our curriculum. If we go Luapula Province, people there are fishermen, why do we not include in the curriculum fishing skills …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: … so that when they leave school, even if they do not get a job, they can be prosperous fishermen.

In North-Western Province people keep bees, grow pineapples and oil therefore, we should localise it. Whatever people can do should be included in the curriculum.

As things stand now, we are talking again of procurement of books. If you procure, what are you procuring? Are you going to have the skills that you are talking about in the FNDP? Even then, it calls for development of writing books. Encourage the teachers to write books because they know the students we are talking about.

In Zambia today, if a teacher writes a book, it will take years for people to recognise that he or she has written a book. We would rather support Longman and other international books and leave our teachers who can write books. Please, let us encourage our teachers to write.

I wish to talk about other things I saw in the budget which is Gender and Equity given K1.8 billion what is for? What we see in this? Advocacy, sensitisation, T-shirts, workshops and so on, but what are we doing to the girl we are talking about? It would be better that for a girl who has left school and does not have people to look after her, to empower her other than spending all the money on workshops, advocacy or whatever. Let us change what we are doing for the betterment of the people we are talking about.

 I am not saying that the ministry of my sister is not important, it is important. We have done enough advocacy and sensitisation, now we should empower the women and the girls. We should aim towards that goal.

When the Hon. Minister was speaking, he talked about distant education a subject that is very close to my heart, but we are just paying lip service. There is nothing that this Government is doing to address distant education adequately.

When we come to educational broadcasting, Zambia was first in the region. Education broadcasting started in 1961 and they were producing very good programmes. What has happened now? It is almost dead.

Mr D. Mwila: Bebeni ba Lungwangwa!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Even developing countries have education broadcasting, what about us who do not even have adequate schools why should we not develop it?

I am glad that the Minister said that it is a process he has started we yet have to see what will be put in place that educational broadcasting does what it is supposed to do.

Education broadcasting brings the outside world into the classroom. Things that a teacher cannot do education broadcasting can do. Even a school where you do not have a laboratory, if you have a good science programme, that laboratory can be brought to the classroom. Let us think and develop things that are there. Why should we be pioneers and end up failing lamentably?

South Africa had television after us but look at the programmes that they are producing. We do not produce educational programmes. Mr Minister, I want you to address this one.

Lastly, the other thing I would like to talk about is teacher’s deployment. When I left Teachers Training College, I left with my TS number, knew my headmaster and a school where I was going. Why should we keep teachers in the compounds when schools have no teachers? It is not an issue that we should debate. The responsibility of a responsible Government is to find teachers for pupils and not to find employment for teachers. We have our priority wrong, you think you are doing teachers a favour by employing them. You are not.  You are just doing a disservice to your children who have no teachers. How can you talk of quality when there are no teachers in schools?

Lastly, Mr Chairperson, I want to talk about infrastructure. I went round Zambia and I am sure the Minister knows that I went round Zambia. What we heard is something that we cannot write home about. We cannot even be proud. I am glad, Mr Chairperson, the Minister said they will be building so many schools per year. I hope what we are saying can be interpreted into reality because Zambians are very good at talking and I know that the Ministry of Education has a rich human resource and they are good at writing. They write beautiful things, I was part of them but out of what we wrote, very little was implemented. I hope now this Government will be responsible and do what is important because education is key. All of us start through education, if you do not have education, you cannot have anything. If we do not do something about the education of our children, after this generation is gone, one would wonder what sort of Zambia we will have.

Mr Chairperson, I am glad the Professor is a capable man and with his team, they will work hard so that at the end of three years, we must see the light at the end of the tunnel.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank all those who have contributed to the debate on the Vote and in view of the time constraint, I will not respond to each and every point raised but I would like to point out that as a Ministry we appreciate the support that has been given to all those that have contributed to the debate on this Vote.

Mr Chairperson, we have heard the counsel that has been given which is centred on making a difference. The counsel has been that we should concentrate on improving the education system. We should focus on expansion of the system, on the quality of the system, on equitable access to the system, on the relevance of what is being taught and learnt, and on improving the facilities. We appreciate the counsel that has been rendered. We have been, of course, counselled as a Ministry that we should look at infrastructure development, curriculum development and its relevance with special attention to physical education. We should look at teacher supply and recruitment, the financing of the system with special attention to the vulnerable, equality of the system, focusing on teacher pupil ratios, education materials provision, the expansion of high schools, the retention of staff, their motivation, monitoring of educational standards and physical visitations to our education establishments.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to assure the House that our focus as a Ministry is on learner centeredness. We want to see an innovative, imaginative and creative learner who will contribute to the development of our country in all dimensions. We are not only focusing on distance learning but we are equally modernising our education system through the provision of ICT, computers are now very powerful teaching and learning instruments and as a Ministry we are modernising in that direction to complement or supplement distance learning opportunities.

Mr Chairperson, we have an opportunity this year to make a difference and as a Ministry we are committed to making a difference. We would like to see our children learning and learning happily in our educational institutions at all levels. I therefore, Sir, wish to appeal earnest to the House to approve Head 80 Budget so that we can quickly get on with the work and make a difference in the education system.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 80/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/03 − (Ministry of Education − Planning and Information Directorate − K318,798,753,781).

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, on Head 80/03, Programme 8, Activities 03 −  Procurement of School Furniture (Desks) (12) − K11,535,030,379, Activity 19  −  Construction of High Schools (21) − K110,866,686,919 and Activity 20  −  Construction of Basic Schools (22) − K50,000,000,000, looking at the amounts, it is important that we have a schedule of the programmes so that we know what will happen this year.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, on Head 80/03, Programme 8, Activities 03 − Procurement of School Furniture (Desks) (12) − K11,535,030,379, Activity 19, Construction of High Schools (21) − K110,866,686,919 and Activity 20  −  Construction of Basic Schools (22) − K50,000,000,000, I would like to inform the hon. Member that these are specifics which are broken down and I would like to assure the hon. Member that the details of what is entailed in the expenditure is available and that we can provide the information.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Vote 80/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/11 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/12 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/13 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/14 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/15 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/20 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/21 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/22 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/26 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/27 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/28 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/29 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/30 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/31 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/32 ─ (Ministry of Education – Regional Headquarters – Luapula Province K7,933,681,122)

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, May I have clarification on page 786, Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 14 – Grant to PEO’s Office – Nil. Last year there was an allocation of K606,739,345, why this year there is no allocation.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister of Education.

Mr D. Mwila: I have not finished, Mr Chairperson.

On page 798, Sub-head 7, Programme 2, Activity 03 – Infrastructure – Nil, there was an allocation of K147,018,186, but this year, there is nothing. I would like to find out why. I also seek clarification on Programme 8, Activity 01 – Construction (48) – K12,646,263, Activity 02 – Rehabilitation (49) – K10,676,891, Activity 03 – Maintenance (50) – K2,529,253, Activity 04 – Monitoring (51) – K1,686,168. Last year, there was no allocation and the amounts which have been allocated this year are little. I would like to get an explanation from the hon. Minister.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, on page 786, Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 14 – Grant to PEO’s Office – Nil, page 798, Sub-head 7, Programme 2, Activity 03 – Infrastructure – Nil, and Programme 8, Activity 01 – Construction (48) – K12,646,263, Activity 02 – Rehabilitation (49) – K10,676,891, Activity 03 – Maintenance (50) – K2,529,253, Activity 04 – Monitoring (51) – K1,686,168, if the hon. Member looks very carefully, the programmes that we apportioned to the PEO’s office last year have now been apportioned to the districts. This explains why in a number of instances, we do not have allocations to such activities this year. This is because they have become programmes at the district level.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 80/32 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80/33 – (Ministry of Education – Basic Schools – Luapula Province – K51,928,370,317).

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, may I have clarification on Sub-head 1, Programme 7, Activity 01 – Grants to Basic Schools (4) – K412,449,308. Last year, we had K561,408,652, but this year, it has been reduced. I want to know the reason why. On Sub-head 5, Programme 7, and Activity 01 – Grants to Basic Schools (5) – K506,265,515, there is also a reduction from K798,750,076 last year. On Sub-head 7, Programme 7, Activity 02 – Grants to Pre-Schools – Nil, there was an allocation of K282,234,356 last year, but there is nothing for this year. I would like to know why there is no allocation.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 7, Activity 01 – Grants to Basic Schools (4) – K412,449,308, Sub-head 5, Programme 7, Activity 01 – Grants to Basic Schools (5) – K506,265,515, Sub-head 7, Programme 7, Activity 02 – Grants to Pre-Schools – Nil, the amounts have been reduced due to provisions under Sector Plan Implementation. This will be made available by the Sector Plan Implementation at the headquarters level.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, I would like to find out why he should take it to headquarters because that allocation is supposed to go straight to the districts.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Chairperson, it is part of the infrastructure development where we have allocations at the headquarters level which is going to cater for all infrastructure development in the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Vote 80/33 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/34 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/38 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/39 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 80/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90 – (Office of the President –Provinces – K29,150,381,410).

The Deputy Chairperson: We are now moving on to consideration of all the provinces and as was the practice last time for those of you who have just come in, the practice is we debate all the provinces together and we limit the hon. Members debating to three per province.

Now, in this particular case, we will begin with His Honour the Vice-President making a general policy debate on all the provinces. Thereafter, we will then go province by province and three per province as I stated. Then, the hon. Minister for the Province will wind up. This is the procedure for all the provinces. Like I have guided before, it is not a must that those three speaking should really finish the 15 minutes. I know most of you are very brief. You can make your points in less than 15 minutes.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: You see, I am being told this is the time when the Chair is willing to listen to people talking while seated. I am being told that instead of having three speaking, we can even have two which is…

Hon. Member: Why?

The Deputy Chairperson: The Chair does not want to break the rules, but if hon. Members want to have one person to speak, the best is for hon. Members not to indicate the desire to speak.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President (Mr R. B. Banda): Mr Chairperson, I am most thankful for the time that I have been accorded to present the estimates…

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! We are not listening. Let us consult quietly, but let us listen.

Will the hon. Vice-President continue, please.

The Vice-President: Mr Chairperson, I am most thankful for the time I have been accorded to present the Estimates of Expenditure for the provinces for the year 2007.

Mr Chairperson, the main objective of the provincial administration is to provide the arena for the effective co-ordination, implementation and monitoring of various sector policies and strategies on behalf of line ministries and Central Government as a whole in order to ensure the provision of quality services to the local communities.

Pursuant to the above objective, the functions of the provincial administrations include the following:

(a) ensuring that Government policies are understood and being implemented in the province;

(b) planning and co-ordinating development activities in the province;

(c) mobilising development resources for the province;

(d) monitoring the utilisation of resources and execution of district development plans and programmes;

(e) consolidating district development plans into provincial development plans.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I cannot hear. I am being distracted. Let us consult quietly.

Will he continue, please.

The Vice-President: Perhaps, it is a sign, Mr Chairperson, that the hon. Members are getting exhausted, but let us try and complete as quickly as possible.

(f) carrying out statutory and audit inspections in all districts;

(g) co-ordinating state and traditional ceremonies; and

(h) maintaining law and order throughout the province.

Mr Chairperson, a review of the budget performance for the year 2006 indicates that the provincial administration recorded significant achievements in many areas, such as, the following:

Agriculture/Economic Sector

This includes roads construction, infrastructure maintenance and rehabilitation, improved crop harvests and mining development, such as, the Lumwana Copper Mine in the North-Western Province and the Nickel Mine in Mazabuka, Southern Province and poverty reduction programmes to just mention a few.

Social/Energy Sector

This includes procurement and distribution of school requisites, such as, computers, stoves, books, chemicals in line with Government policy of free basic education; increasing the number of upper basic schools in order to enhance accessibility to high school education; provision of health requisites using poverty reduction funds in order to improve access to quality health services; rehabilitation of local courts in order to improve operations of the judicial delivery institutions; and implementation of the Rural Electrification Programme through the provision of solar panels to some schools and health centres.

Mr Chairperson, allow me to state that the above list of achievements is not exhaustive, but rather illustrative that the provincial administration could make significant accomplishments if given the necessary support by hon. Members of this House. It is also important to state that the above achievements were accomplished in the midst of the challenges and constraints which included the following:

(i) budgetary constraints, particularly, for those programmes that are done at specific times during the course of the year;

(ii) inadequate capacity in information management due to lack of equipment and necessary skills;

(iii) unreliable and inadequate transport for smooth implementation, monitoring and co-ordination of programmes;

(iv) changing weather conditions which cause floods in some parts of the country that result in damage to infrastructure, such as, roads, bridges and buildings;

(v) contractual delays; and

(vi) large number of carry over projects from previous years.

Mr Chairperson, the above challenges notwithstanding, I am happy to report that the budget office did their best by releasing more than 78 per cent of the budget for the provinces in the year 2006. The provincial administration appreciates that resources are limited and that there are other critical national programmes this year that require huge resources.

Notwithstanding the afore-mentioned, the provincial administration has the responsibility to facilitate the local communities to participate in the exploitation of the natural resources in agriculture, forestry, tourism and other resources based industries with a view to improve their standards of living.

Mr Chairperson, I now seek the indulgence of this honourable House in considering the provincial administration vote favourably for the purposes of smooth administration and development in our provinces.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: We now move onto Head 90 – Office of the President – Lusaka Province. Maybe we should speak at random…

Hon. Members: Yes!

The Deputy Chairperson: …and we will be tell how many have spoken for each provinces as long as you make sure that not five people speak for each province.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 2000 hours until 2100 hours.

Mr Mtonga (Kanyama): First of all, I would like to offer, on behalf of my colleagues, especially hon. Members from Lusaka province, our heart felt and sincere condolences to Hon. Shawa, the hon. Minister of Lusaka province, on the sudden demise of his daughter. We are with you and feel sorry that this has happened. I hope God gives you strength as we pursue this programme of development.

I also want to say that before your coming to Lusaka province, we have seen other hon. ministers and they came with their own styles of leadership, like bringing Members of Parliament together. I believe it is a challenge to you as it was to them in that your party, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), has not won any sit, apart from the peri-urban areas within Lusaka province. Yet, we expected to work together and deliver development. Sometimes, failure by your predecessors arose from failure to distinguish between developmental and political issues. We wish to commend you for starting with serious consultations. Upon assuming office, you asked all of us to come and visit you and we had friendly exchange which set a new pace for accounting for elected power, particularly in a multi-party democracy. We hope the attitude you have adopted will accelerate delivery of services to our people.

Madam Chairperson, I also wish to say that Lusaka is a capital city and nearly every part of Zambia has its tribe’s people within this town. Indeed, as others have said earlier, Lusaka represents the best place for one Zambia one nation. Therefore, this means that the variety of differences is equally much. Yet, our desire, especially from elected hon. Members of constituencies in your province, is to help you deliver to our hard-pressed people. In this regard, we would like to see more dialogue over allocation of resources, ranking of priorities, so that issues of development do not appear to be taking place only in certain districts if we look at the budget.

We also think that with you at the helm, Lusaka which is afflicted with cholera and dysentery arising from failure to manage solid waste, can now receive proper assessment and leadership. You know that rubbish has to be moved seasonally and at regular intervals. We do not have to wait for the rains or the outbreak of cholera to start moving waste. We think that this should be done regularly before garbage piles into hills within our townships. We, therefore, shall be looking forward to a way in which current resources can go towards removing solid waste in our respective townships.

We also have, Hon. Minister, a problem of our hard-pressed people, some of them are parading along gateways to South Africa, the north and the east. Some are crushing stones along the roads. We think that we should come together and consider how best to deal with this issue, with Government being in the leadership position so that our people can see that we have left it to the Indians, Lebanese and especially the Chinese to buy their stones. We think that Government should exhibit leadership in seeing to development of our country and thus alleviate the difficulties that our people are experiencing.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to see that the roads that have been savaged by the rains are also attended to in urban areas of Lusaka. I know that your office sent the district commissioner to meet us and discuss the disaster effects in Lusaka. We felt that meeting was the first of its kind and useful. However, since that time, although we discussed useful information, there has been no follow up in terms of places where little bridges have been washed away, clinics were flooded and patients had to undress their shoes in order to get into some health centre. We were promised some action.

Therefore, I hope that the disaster benefits are not going to by-pass our local townships. With those few words I thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr Sinyinda (Senanga): Madam Chair, first of all I would like to thank you very much for allowing me to contribute and support the Vote for Western Province.

I would like to urge the Government to do quite a lot for Western Province because as you know, the Province is the poorest. A number of reasons have contributed and worsened the poverty situation.

Western Province had harboured the freedom fighters until 1990 and is still harbouring refugees. This situation has actually contributed to the poverty levels in the Province.

I would like to urge the Government to do a lot especially in the field of education. Western Province does not have a girl’s high school. I know that my brother has emphasised on the need for improved education facilities, but I would like this to be a reality. We would like to have more desks in the province for our schools and would like more schools to be constructed and rehabilitated. We would like more bursary schemes and more money put into them so that the poorest of the poor can  benefit.

Madam Chairperson, in the field of health, I have in mind our only general hospital which we would not even call a general hospital because of its bad state. This is Lewanika Hospital in Mongu. I would like to urge the Minister of Health to ensure that the standard of Lewanika Hospital can be uplifted so that it can be called a General Hospital. We would also like to have more rural health centers in our province.

Madam Chairperson, I have also in mind the state of our roads. We have very few roads in the Province. Out of the seven districts, there are very few of these that are connected by good roads. Therefore, I would like to urge the Government to ensure that Senanga-Sesheke Road, Kalongola-Kalabo Road, Mongu-Kalabo-Sikongo Road, Kaoma-Sesheke Road and Lukulu-Kaoma Road are constructed.

In the field of agriculture, I would like to urge the Government to ensure that animal diseases are eradicated. We would also like to have the animals re-stocking programme that is in Southern Province. This should be taken very seriously, Madam Chairperson.

I would also like to urge the Government to improve the standard of Mongu Stadium so that our young people can have recreation.

Lastly, I would like to discuss the issue of new minerals. Just like any other province, the Western Province has got the potential of being a mining area. I know that there are quite many minerals in the Western Province and am asking this Government to prospect and exploit this potential.

I thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): I thank you Madam Chairperson for allowing me to contribute to the Vote for provinces. I must say that looking at the Budget for North-Western Province, I get the impression that Government was trying to joke, but I have never seen a government that jokes.

Madam Chairperson, the Budget for the Province is mainly about wages and salaries. There is very little in terms of development projects and that is why I am saying that the Government was trying to joke with the people of the North-Western Province. But we are not interested in joking in that sense.

Madam Chairperson we are more interested in serious development issues that are affecting the province. These are issues of roads, bridges, mines, energy, water and the more serious issues affecting the lives of the people like health and education. All those things are not being attended to in a very serious manner. I will just cite a few.

Most of the districts in the province are experiencing black outs. There is not enough electricity in the province. Most of the districts are not connected to the national grid and we are being told by the Minister of Energy that they intend to develop the Kabompo Hydro Power Station which will eventually supply electricity to the province.

Looking at how long it takes to implement these projects, we do not know when the Kabompo Hydro Power Station will eventually take off and supply power to the province. In fact we are surprised that in the whole process of developing the Kabompo Hydro Power Station, the Minister of Energy and Water Development appears to be side-lining the local people, especially the few entrepreneurs that have come up from the province to form a consortium to develop the Kabompo Hydro Power Station.

He has already started evaluating bids for the development of the same, ignoring the serious local investors that have come from the province. That, we shall not allow because we the owners of the province want to take a lead in investment and in benefiting from the projects that are going to occur in the province.

Similarly, Madam Chairperson, we are blessed as a province to have a lot of minerals and we want this Government to develop those minerals including copper and oil to the satisfaction of the local people. We want the development agreement that this Government entered with the mining companies to be made available to the people through their leaders, the Members of Parliament. We must have sight of those development agreements.

As Members of Parliament, we would like to know what you have agreed with Kansanshi and Lumwana mines as part of their social responsibility. We would like to know when they will build a school, clinic and or a road. Why are you hiding such public information? The only reason you are hiding such information is because within those development agreements are financial transactions that appear to be against the interests of the Zambian people.

Madam Chairperson, the same applies to the current effort for the search for oil. Apart from the thin advertisements in the newspapers that are issued by the Minister of Mines and Minerals, which lack detail, the local people have not, through their representatives, been informed about what is happening at each stage on the search for oil. We do not want a situation where we shall find a white man coming to disperse local people. We do not want to find a Whiteman one day coming to displace local people telling them that, ‘we have mining rights here, you move away.’

Mr Mukanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: That, we shall not allow because you will be provoking the people. When people are provoked, they will do everything within their power to protect themselves and their rights.

Madam Chairperson, we are concerned about the promises that this Government makes to the people of North Western Province. For example, last year, there was a provision in the budget for constructing the road from Mumbwa to Kasempa. We were very happy that it would provide a shortcut from Lusaka through Central Province to North Western Province. To date, nothing has been done on that road. We do not know what happened to that money. May be they appointed a contractor who has pocketed the money and has done nothing on that road.

This Government, for example, promised that it was going to replace all the pontoons and bridges. We counted our pontoons in the province and they are quite many. Watopa for example, if replaced by a bridge would provide a short cut from Lusaka to Zambezi, Kabompo and Chavuma and to Angola. Instead of taking two or three days to pass through the Copperbelt, it would take just one day to reach Zambezi, but that has not been done.

Similarly, other pontoons on the Zambezi River, Chavuma off the Zambezi River and Ngevu River which is also a very big river- it is just as big as the Kafue or the Zambezi River itself, but there is no proper pontoon and there is no plan by this Government to put a bridge there.

Madam Chairperson, we are also concerned about how this Government is treating the people of North Western Province in terms of agricultural development. We get excited as a people that the Government has a Fertiliser Support Programme in place. However, when people want to participate in that programme, they get disappointed.

For example, farmers in Kasempa, Mwinilunga and many other palaces were made to pay for the fertiliser for this farming season. Up to now, they are still waiting for their fertiliser. Where did their money go? Why was the fertiliser not supplied? These are the question that we are asking.

In addition to that, because the Government is not serious with the development of the agricultural sector, they went to establish satellite depots under the Food Reserve Agency which, in many cases, are 50 to 100 kilo metres apart. Imagine a peasant farmer with two bags walking for two or three days to get to the nearest depot to sell his few bags.

This is not correct. The Government must be serious and establish as many depots as possible and closer to the people so that it makes life easier for the peasant farmers to sell their produce.

Madam Chairperson, North Western Province is blessed and rich in culture. We have some of the richest cultural ceremonies, if not, the best in the country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Some of these are the Likumbi lya mize, …

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: … the Lunda-Lubanza Ceremony, Chesemwa chaba Lunda, Kufukwila of the Kaonde People …

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: In fact, the Kufukwila is just coming up in May and I am inviting all of you to come to Chief Makumbi’s area to enjoy that area.

Mr Sichilima: Mukanda!

Mr Kakoma: Come august, come and enjoy one of the best traditional ceremonies in Zambia, the Likumbi lya mize. Those of you who would like to take the opportunity to go to Mukanda …

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: … can also to do that.

Madam Chairperson, while talking about traditional ceremonies the President of the Republic of Zambia recognised the rich culture of the people of North Western Province. He ordered that the cultural village be built in Zambezi. To date, we are still waiting for that cultural village to be built. Hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Service can we please have our cultural village built this year. There is no way you can make the President look like a person who tells lies when he gave correct directives that the cultural village must be built and that was three years. To date, not even one stone have been laid. Could you, please, do something about our cultural village.

One of the most serious issues in the province is lack of water. We get surprised that other provinces are receiving a lot of boreholes and this Government was giving up 300 boreholes in one province and with nothing in North Western Province. We have serious water problems in Ifumaba in Solwezi West, for example, there is no water. There are many cases.

For example, in Zambezi West, since the programme for water started, not even one borehole has been drilled there, but we are part of Zambia. We would like to get something from this national cake. What have we done that we should be drinking dirty contaminated water from rivers and streams 45 years after independence?

Most of the children have surfer from diarrhoea because they are drinking contaminated water. Most of the teachers are refusing to go and teach in rural places because there are no boreholes. There are a lot of problems that we are experiencing, that we would like this Government, which the people of North Western Province trusted so much and gave an overwhelming vote.

Mr Tetamashimba: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: As you members of the MMD always say, ‘scratch me and I will scratch you.’

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: It is your own slogan.

Therefore, since we scratched you, scratch us also by bringing development.

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: If not, we will stop scratching you next time.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Chitika (Kawambwa): I thank you, Madam Chairperson, for giving me this opportunity to contribute on this vote.

First of all I would like to commend the new administration in Luapula for being inclusive in whatever they are trying to do.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: They have realised that we are all stakeholders in what is happening. Hon. Minister I would like to assure you that if talk about development, you will have all the support of all the hon. Members of Parliament in Luapula Province.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: You will find your work very easy and people will simply say that they want Mr Chinyanta again.

Madam Chairperson, Luapula Province is a land of plenty. We are blessed with a good geographical area with beautiful sites.

Mr D. Mwila: No drought!

Ms Chitika: We have two big lakes in the province.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: With beautiful white sands. We receive more than enough rainfall for any agricultural produce. The list is endless. If Luapula is properly managed, supported and if there is political will from the Government of the day, Luapula can be likened to the Garden of Eden.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtonga: Zoona!

Ms Chitika: This province can contribute greatly to the economic growth of this country. If, for instance, the growing of the palm trees is encouraged and supported at commercial level. The money that will be incurred from this product alone will be so substantial that we will not be not be able to bother the hon. Minister of Works and Supply for any roads. We will be able to do that as a province. There are countries in the world that have survived on palm oil.

Madam Chairperson, the Kawambwa/Luena Plantation has been on the drawing board of Government for many years. The people of Luapula are tired of waiting.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: Madam, if this programme is supported, the sugar that will be produced in Kawambwa will be able to be exported even to other countries. This will be able to contribute to the GDP. It is high time the hon. Minister for this province followed up this issue because we are tired of waiting. Government should show commitment about this project.

Madam Chairperson, there is an issue of tourism in the province. The unavailability of the tourism office in Luapula is depriving a lot of tourism activities for the people of Luapula. The tourism officer who is based in Kasama rarely visits Mansa District. Therefore, we feel left out as people from Luapula Province. We feel that he is doing more in the Northern Province than what is being done in Luapula Province. We are therefore, appealing to the able hon. Minister through you, to give us an officer in Kawambwa to be based in Mansa…

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: …especially that the focus now in the province is to develop tourism among other sectors in the province. The money that is provided for, for instance, for alienation of land for agriculture and tourism development purposes is a big joke. Government should have done much better than what has been provided for.

Hon. Opposition Members: Quality!

Ms Chitika: Madam Chairperson, as a province, we want to open up our nice sandy beaches, islands and other sites including the Ntumbacushi Falls in Kawambwa. This can only be done or made possible if Government is committed to this programme.  Just like any other sector, tourism is a labour intensive industry and provides jobs for local people in both rural and urban areas.

Therefore, tourism creates opportunities for both large and small entrepreneurs. It also promotes awareness and understanding among different cultures. It brings a unique informal sector and creates economic linkages with agriculture, light manufacturing and construction industries. Tourism is one of the sectors that can thrive in rural areas for the direct benefit of our communities. This is a reason why we are putting an emphasis for Government to help us develop this sector in Luapula. Our emphasis is that Government should show commitment to open up or facilitate those who want to get involved in tourism sector.

Madam Chairperson, the people of Luapula are so productive and hard working. We have never received any relief food because we are able to feed ourselves.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Chitika: The efforts of our people have gone to waste because of the poor road infrastructure in the area. If the Kawambwa/Mwenda Road was opened for the people of the plateau, the crops that would be able to come out of that area would be able to feed the entire Copperbelt Province. If you open up the areas like Samfya, Kasaba and Lubwe you will be able to get fish from Luwingu. We are talking about a road that is cutting through Lubwe, Kasaba into Luwingu. You will be able to see the beans that people can be able to produce in that area.

Madam Chairperson, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba (Chiengi): Madam Chairperson, this is the first time I am rising to debate an item on this year’s Budget. I am humbled that you have given me the opportunity to do debate. I will be a little bit nationalistic since I have heard the minors about Luapula. I will not really talk about Luapula only.

Interruptions

Dr Kalumba: Madam Chairperson, I note that in each province, there are some very positive things that have happened under the administration of President Mwanawasa.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: I think all of us acknowledge this, wherever you are, whether it is Eastern, Southern, Western, North Western, Central, Lusaka, Copperbelt, Northern and Luapula Provinces. I can see my brother, Hon. Tetamashimba, is aggressively agreeing with me …

Hon. Tetamashimba: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: … because I know that some very good things have happened in North-Western Province as well.

Madam Chairperson, there is still development deficits that need to be attended to in each province. I would like to look at infrastructure, in particular, the road infrastructure. If I were coming from the North Western Province, I would speak very developmentally. As a descendant of the Kaondes, I am now speaking very developmentally that there are development deficits in North Western Province particularly, the Mutanda/Chavuma Road. The Mwinilunga/Solwezi Road is running out of its life span and needs resurfacing.

Mr Tetamashimba: Quality my brother!

Dr Kalumba:  Having had very intimate contacts in Western Province, I am sure that the people of Kalabo are waiting for the completion of the Mongu/Kalabo Road. That is very important development for Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Bikapo Yewe!

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: We are not allowed to say slogans in this House. I will ignore that, Madam Chairperson.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Madam Chairperson, the Choma/Namwala Road requires completion. I am sure all of us know the Bottom Road. Hon. Muntanga, you do not need a definition of the Bottom Road because I think you know it very well. The Bottom Road needs completion. The Mchinji Railway Line for Eastern Province is a matter of considerable sensitivity. I think this requires some attention as well. We are talking about a very short distance of about 27 kilometres. I am sure if there is further development, we can complete it and may be avoid the embarrassment we have shared for a long time because of not completion of that stretch. This administration is determined to complete it. I, therefore, thank the Government for the commitment they have shown.

Madam, when you look at Chipata/Lundazi/Chama Road, there is some work to be done and it is important that we do pay some attention to that issue too.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: What about the Mbesuma Bridge in Northern Province and the completion of the Kasama/Luwingu Road to Mansa? What about the Kasama/Mporokoso and Mbala/Nakonde Roads? Surely, these are issues that require attention. My sister from Kawambwa has mentioned the development deficits in Luapula.

If it is in Luapula, I forgot to mention the Kashikishi-Munchima Road but there is also, very importantly…

Mr Hachipuka: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised

Mr Hachipuka: Is the debater, who is debating very eloquently, though we cannot see him…

Laughter

Mr Hachipuka: …in order to campaign nationally on behalf of the MMD? I need your serious ruling.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order!

He actually did mention that he was going to debate nationally. Therefore, he is also in order to campaign nationally.

Laughter

The Chairperson: Hon. Kalumba, you may continue

Mr Kalumba: Madam Chairperson, not even in my worst dreams have I thought about campaigning in the context that the hon. Member has mentioned. Although, if has dreamed about them on my behalf, I would like to consult him after this.

Laughter

Mr Kalumba: Truly, these development concerns, you can mention some of these in Western Province, if you live in Chitambo Constituency, there are concerns there that you need to attend to.  It is a question of strategy. We do have the Minister of Works and Supply, very dynamic engineer...

Hon Member: A young man.

Dr Kalumba: I do not know about young, but very dynamic.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Hon Minister, I would like to say this to you; you have a very important Ministry and I know that you can deliver. We are counting on you because you gave a word to this House that you will make a difference to this Ministry, particularly in respect of improving the road infrastructure. Therefore, stay close to your pledge to this House and I know that you are man of your word and you have a President who will support you in you commitment to bring this vision through, for the benefit of the people of Zambia.

It is unacceptable to a have a contractor on any site, anywhere in this country where money is being paid for no value whatsoever. It defeats the purpose of public policy; it defeats the purpose of good governance and the Government’s intentions. The Government is being insulted when you have engineers who do not go on site to inspect what the contractor is doing. You can change that culture hon. Minister and ensure…

Hon Member: He is annoyed.

Dr Kalumba: No, I am not yet annoyed. I am never angry when I become a Katele. I am sure that with the dedication you have with your brother, Hon. Tetamashimba, a dynamic young Kaonde who knows how to speak very forcibly …

Hon Member: Because you were together.

Dr Kalumba: Yes, my brother. You will provide the leadership necessary to address the difficult questions with your colleague in finance. You can not keep contracts that are not performing for ten years. It is not right and you have a Head of State making pledges to the people, knowing that the Ministry and the people behind it will ensure that it is done, there are contractors on site and he is laughing at you. It is not right. This Government has a promise to the people and I think indications so far are clear that we want to deliver as the MMD Government for all our people.

Please, do not let these contractors who have lived, some of them for many years, they have walked on the national, some of them think they are too national, they do not even listen to counsel from consultants. Their own consultants are telling them that they are cheating the Government and they think we are foolish, Madam Chairperson forgive me but I think there is need to have the Mooyas of this House to help some you and some of your men down there to supervise. He has been on some of the roads where the contractors have failed to perform, hon. Minister, I think that there is need to sit down with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Justice to look at some of these non-performing contracts. Terminate them and bring in new contractors on site. It is important for Zambia, it is important for the Government.

I than you, Sir

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Thank you, Madam Chairperson. It gives me great pleasure that my colleagues also decided that I should be one of those to debate on Southern Province, especially that these are closing debates. However, before I delve in to the issues that I want like to raise, I would like to say that as a freshman in Parliamentary Procedure, I enjoyed this session immensely. I enjoyed it, particularly because we had His Honour, the Vice-President who, by his experience and stature provided the magnanimity we so very much deserve in this House.

His Honour the Vice-President, and the Speaker have provided the kind of posture that a House as noble and blessed as this one deserves. For me, it was very good during this tenure, to know His Honour the Vice-President is always around.

I would also like to say that it was privilege for me that I am a Member of Parliament at a time that Hon. V. J. Mwaanga is a Member of Parliament. Michael Jackson did sing about staying power. For a man to have survived national governance, from 1964 to date and is still in Parliament, that speaks volumes about staying power. How many of us in this August House will even match him one quarter way? How many?

Hon Members of Parliament: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: It is such pleasure for me that I can record myself as having been with Hon. V J Mwaanga. I can assure that in some ways, I have benefited immensely from his advice.

Madam Chairperson, the issue of Southern Province is the issue I have delved to speak on several occasions in this House. I have spoken about Southern Province with passion. This is because of the tribulations of the people of Southern Province who, I think have contributed more than a fair share to the development of this country, more than a fair share. On the Eastern side of the Southern Province, you have the Gwembe Valley, which has been known as the city of commerce, even before development came to this country. Alas, for our people on the Gwembe Valley, the white man required that there must be dam. A dam was created to put paid to everything that held the people of Gwembe Valley together, destroyed commerce, destroyed prosperity, buried ecology under the waters of the Kariba.

Today, the people of the Gwembe Valley wallow in poverty, which they do not deserve and yet the are responsible for lighting the entire country of Zambia. The prosperity of the people on the Copperbelt and everywhere else in the country who are so-well lit and prosperous, are prosperous because of the founding fathers of the Gwembe Valley, may their souls rest in peace.

Hon. Members of Parliament: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: It is for this reason that we have repeatedly said that the bottom road as a way of thanking the people of the Gwembe Valley, at least some way, you know in Namwala, we say ‘Anhimo bolalumba’

Laughter

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: You should be able to say thank you to a people that have done so much for you. Year in, year out, you bypass the Bottom Road as though the people do not exist. If you travel to Lusitu, go to Ng’ombe Ilede, you will find that Tonga people are eating grass. I know that my traditional cousin will say that is right. He can be forgiven because he prepares that at Khozo Lodge.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: This is the extent to which our people are suffering. The plateau Tonga shall forever continue to suffer in perpetuity.

Madam Chairperson, the people of the plateau, particularly, those of Mazabuka approached me in my capacity as Indigenous People’s Rights Chairman. We marched to Lusaka with bus loads and truck loads of people to demonstrate that we need our land. When you travel from Livingstone all the way up to Kafue, you will find that there is a continuous barbed wire line. If you look right or left, you will not see an African village.

Madam Chairperson, in 1976, I went to Eastern Province, Gondar Barracks, which was my first military cantonment from where I served. I go to Eastern province quite regularly, but when I went there this time around, I was happy to see what I saw. On either side of the Great East Road, you will see development that are African in nature, not white men’s farms. You cannot say that Southern Province is developed when a white man has put barbed wire lines and cattle fences everywhere. What development are you talking about? When exporting his products, that white man is going to export them to his fellow white people in Europe. It will not be the indigenous people of this country who will be exporting. We must talk about development that is indigenous.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Chairperson, I know that we do things because we know that there is a Government. Having said that, I want to tell you if I had my way, I would deal with this problem once and for all and I will not even blink one little bit. I can assure you that.

Mr Muntanga laughed.

Major Chizhyuka: I also want to tell you that I have the capacity to deal with this problem.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: If this problem takes too long to be sorted out, I might adopt the kind of posture that is required to have this problem dealt with.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Chairperson, there is also another valley on the western side of Southern Province. I have left out issues of tourism for my colleague to deal with them.

Madam Chairperson, you may be aware that God had six days to work and create the earth. On a Tuesday,…

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka:…he decided not to work the whole day and reserved that day in order to create a place where some of his favourite people would live. Thereafter, he realised that he had to place them on the Kafue Flats.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Chairperson, on the Kafue Flats, God gave his people abundance natural resources. He looked at his people and said that “I will give you the best waters” and gave them the Kafue River. When he looked at his people again, he said that you cannot live on you own. I have to give you something else and he gave them cattle. After doing that he said that may prosperous be with you for ever and ever.

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Chairperson, the problem has been the issues that I talked about last time. What I am trying to say is that because we are part o this Government, we have to be subservient to the whims of this Government. If it went for that, the hundreds of thousands of cattle that died on the Kafue Flats would not have died and our people would have been much richer. By now, we should have had a posture or a way to ensure that we export beef to the rest of the world. How can we have a situation where Botswana, an arid land, which most of its land is a desert can have its GDP calculated at 41.79 per cent? This percentage is being contributed by the livestock sector. Yet, here in Zambia, we have the plains of the Kafue Flats, the plains of the Western Province and some of the plains in North Western Province.

Madam Chairperson, our sons and daughters run away from this country to go to Botswana to make a better living for themselves. Nine months later, they come back driving cars. They drive these cars because of the money they earn from an economy that is driven 49 per cent by cattle. Do you understand that you could be ten times better.

Madam Chairperson, the last piece of advice to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives that we would like to welcome you, my tradition cousin to Southern Province. In giving you this welcome, I also want to advise you on something.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Southern Province must tell President Mwanawasa the truth. From the military school point of view, we say that in order to advise a man as a Head of State, he should allocate quality time to the thought process of advising the Republican President. This is so because the Republican President is human like all of us and he is bound to make mistakes like all human beings.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: The statements about some politicians not wanting development in Southern Province is arising from a very poor, shallow and unresearched advice.

Hon. Garry Nkombo, the hon. Member of Parliament for Mazabuka and I, have welcomed that mine in Mazabuka. How happy we are that we have got a mine there. I am surprised to find there is a negative report coming through from somewhere. In Southern Province, all we are saying is that let us have an environmental impact assessment because this is a base line requirement all over the world. Even the World Bank will tell you that you need an environment impact assessment for any project.

Madam Chairperson, because of the kind of tribulation the people of Southern Province have had, we want to know if that mine needs another 2,100 hectares on top of the 1,000 hectares they have and the top of 800 Kilometers under ground, which they go and mine. All of us are Africans. Even you, from the Executive, you will understand that it is too much for a province, which has no land and a district like Mazabuka, which had the least land in the entire country of all the seventy-two districts. We are one and the same. You should give President Mwanawasa correct advice. These statements about “going to hell”, what is that?

Madam Chairperson, I am reminded that a certain Head of State used to call his people “stupid idiot.” When the wheel turned, the same people he was calling ‘stupid idiots’ are the ones who ruled him and locked him up. The ones he was insulting.

Interruptions

Major Chizhyuka: I am putting these matters plainly. Give the President the correct advice because we are here for development. We want to development. We shall visit your offices regularly so that we develop together.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: There is no one who does not want development.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Vote pertaining to Southern Province and continue where my brother Major Chizhyuka left.

I would like to state that Southern Province is a land of man-made tragedies. I say that man-made tragedies in the sense that those endowed with authority to govern us have been misgoverning us.

As Major Chizhyuka mentioned, the issue of land in Southern Province is very emotive. You are all aware that our people who were occupying very fertile land in the Gwembe Valley have been displaced under the authority of those who are in Government. The same has prevailed in Namwala through the Itezhi-tezhi Dam. There has been no adequate compensation for the people who were displaced. We call upon you through you, Madam Chairperson, that the people of the Gwembe Valley and those who were displaced in Itezhi-tezhi need compensation from this Government. The only adequate compensation they can derive from Government is the provision of adequate water so that they can irrigate their arid land.

The poverty that is prevailing in the Gwembe Valley is man-made. If those people were not displaced, they would not have been dehumanised as the situation is now.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: The people of Namwala have been displaced. The areas they are occupying now are only fit for cattle ranching, which this particular Government have failed to protect.

We appeal to you that the majority of the people of Southern Province strive on farming. However, the farming system in this province has been systematically destroyed by the previous governments including you colleagues. I am blaming you because you are not coming up with a systematic way of addressing issues that affect agriculture in Southern Province.

You are aware that if we do not do anything as a matter of urgency in Southern Province, the cattle stocks in Southern Province will be wiped out because of animal diseases. I am aware that the same scenario is obtaining in Western Province. If we do not do anything tangible, the poverty levels in Western and Southern provinces and other parts of the country, will be worse.

I appeal to you, Leader of Government Business in this House, to intercede on our behalf. I am aware that the former president of Farmers’ Union is aware of the problems we are talking about.

The issue of the Sakala Commission Report which was an attempt to address the land problems in Southern Province has not been addressed by this Government. I know that the Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Daka) is not even listening to me because where he is coming from there are no issues of land problems. However, bear in mind that land issues are very critical. We are aware of countries that are neighbouring us the problems that are arising from there. We do not want us to reach that level.

We were assured through the Sakala Commission that some of those huge tracks of land in Mazabuka, Monze, Choma and Kalomo will be bought back by Government so that there will land redistribution, but that has not happened.

For those who have been to Kariba Dam or Livingstone, the indigenous Zambians in Livingstone as the situation is now, have no access to the Zambezi River. Those who were given farms on the upper land in Simonga area cannot take their animals to water. The entire stretch of land from the bridge up to the Victoria Falls to Kazungula is now owned by foreigners. The Zambians who are supposed to benefit from this resource have no access.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Why should we allow Zambians who are supposed to be benefiting from their resource to be suffering? Those who have been displaced in the Gwembe Valley have no recourse they cannot even have access to the Kariba Dam as the situation is now. And you colleagues who are in Government are in the forefront allocating land to these foreigners at the expense of Zambians.

Major Chizhyuka: Shame!

Mr Mwiimbu: Why are we doing this? Even those who are occupying the banks of the Zambezi River in Livingstone, most of them are racists. Even if most of you here are ministers cannot have access to those private lodges in Livingstone.

Hon. UPND Members: Tell them! Hammer!

Mr Mwiimbu: Why should we allow ourselves to be treated as second class citizens in our own country?

Hon. UPND Members: Tell them!

Mr Mwiimbu: Why should we allow that?

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: There will come a time when this issue will be addressed.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank the MMD Government very sincerely for making us continue winning in Southern Province.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: You are the ones who are making us win. If you were responding to our concerns, I doubt whether a lot of us would have been here. And we are happy that you are going to continue and we are going to continue winning because of your policies.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: If you do not change your policies, you will continue losing. You will not lose in Southern Province. I can assure you, if you do not change in 2011, I do not see anyone of you to come back.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu: I am telling you.

Interruptions

Mr Mwiimbu: The last sitting of this House the majority of those who were on your side are gone. Where are they? We used to advise but they never listened. We are genuinely advising you that please, when we make presentation on behalf of our people listen attentively. We are giving you constructive criticism. I do not think there is anyone who would want you to fail for the sake of wanting you to fail. That is not our intention. Our intention is to ensure that people we serve are given the services.

Southern Province is very unfortunate because there are roads that have been on the drawing board since Independence. The Choma/Namwala Road is one that has been discussed and I do not think there is any road that has been discussed in this House more than this road. Madam Chairperson, so much money has been spent but there is nothing on the ground. Provisions have been made but money has been diverted to other areas. Why is this so? We need that road to be completed this year. If that is done, we will appreciate.

Madam Chairperson, the Monze/Niko Road has been under discussion for a long time and on the Pemba/Mapanza, Kalomo/Dundumwenzi, and the Bottom Road, we have just been getting assurances. The people of Southern Province do not want assurances, they want work to be done on those roads. You have been telling us that Southern Province is an agricultural area, I cannot remember when the last feeder road was rehabilitated in Monze, Namwala, Gweembe and in all these districts in Southern Province. How do you expect the people of Southern Province to provide the requisite food stuffs to this country if you do not provide the infrastructure to enable them produce? You cannot do it.

Madam Chairperson, in Southern Province there are farming blocks which have been in existence for a long time but there is no electricity. We thought that because Southern Province is the major producer of electricity, we would be discriminated positively but nothing has happened.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, in terms of water, we were assured by the President when he declared Southern Province a disaster area that the Government was going to provide water for irrigation through dams and boreholes but nothing has happened. All we are getting are statements. We need irrigation in Southern Province to enable us continue with farming activities. We are hearing of dams being constructed in areas where there are perennial rivers, why should you do that? I thought you would provide dams in areas which are drought stricken, and in areas where there is a lot of water, you just need reticulation of water. There is plenty of water and so why would you sink a borehole in a lake?

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: It is not advisable. But that is what you are doing. We need these resources in Southern Province. Madam Chairperson, the people of Southern Province who are residing near the game parks have suffered a lot. This Government appears as if they favour animals to human beings. The animals have been destroying crops and killing people but the Government is in the forefront protecting the animals. Even my brothers in Western Province who do not respect life, have lost a lot of people in Senanga and they have lodged complaints but Government has done nothing.

Madam Chairperson, these unique people who celebrate disaster …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … have been crying that the only source of wealth which they have is cattle but Government is doing nothing about it. This issue of creating monopolies to buy beef in areas like Western Province is not helping anybody.

Mr Sikatana: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sikatana: Madam Chairperson, is it in order for this hon. Member of Parliament to allege so seriously that when the Lozis celebrate Kuomboka, they are celebrating a disaster ...

Laughter

Mr Sikatana: …when, in fact, we have made it a point that the Tongas will remain what they are because of not celebrating …

Mr Mwiimbu: Drought!

Mr Sikatana: …drought?

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order! That point of order is a serious one. The Chair will say, ‘one man’s meat is another’s poison’.

Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Chairperson, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister for Southern Province to be consultative. We will give him the support as long as he is going to work with us. He is in Southern Province in order to serve the people of Southern Province. What we are appealing through you, Madam Chairperson, is for the hon. Minister to ensure that there are regular meetings with us who represent the people of Southern Province. He should not rely on the advice he is being given by the district commissioners especially that those are the ones who really mislead…

The Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member’s time has expired!

Interruptions

Major Chibamba (Shiwang’andu): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice …

The Chairperson: Order! Can we consult quietly because the Chair would like to listen to the debate. Will the hon. Member continue, please.

Major Chibamba: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Vote.

Naturally, Northern Province is the largest in the country and the people of the area expect that the Government deliberately considers giving them sufficient funding in order for the administration in the province to implement set goals by the Government of the day.

Madam Chairperson, in the last fifteen years or so, Northern Province has been receiving very little funding and it is not a good thing for us because not only is the province the biggest one in the country but also the weather pattern in the province demands that there be enough funding in order for us to be able to maintain infrastructure and be able to build new ones to cater for the ever increasing demands by the people of the province.

Madam Chairperson, I want to talk briefly about provincial administration. Now, like my other colleagues who have spoken before me, I would like to appeal to the hon. Hon. Minister of the province to do one thing, which I am sure is capable of doing. Have confidence in all the hon. Members of Parliament in the province…

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: …because we have resolutely assured him that we shall support him and we have done so. We have demonstrated that we do not have any other Provincial Minister other than, hon. Deputy Minister himself, seated on your right hand side, Madam Chairperson. Now, unless, we can closely collaborate with each other, it is going to be very difficult for us to serve our people as elected Members of Parliament. Luckily enough, our hon. Minister is not an appointed Member of Parliament, he has a Constituency.

I want to say this, Madam Chairperson. That, I have no doubt in my mind that our hon. Minister is agile, still fresh, I would not like to say young, soft spoken…

Hon. Members: Aah!

Major Chibamba: …nice individual, but I think I do not want to hide what I have observed. I think a lot of our colleagues, Members of Parliament might have observed in the same way. Please, do not listen to District Commissioners (DC). I have an example of the DC in Chinsali. I want to see that my hon. Minister is visiting my constituency. We lay a red carpet for him and organise the people to receive him. What can be better than that? Than, I hear that the hon. Minister visited my constituency, he went with the DC, the Councillor was not informed and he came back unceremoniously. No, we want to give him the respect that he deserves. We must be able to receive him and make sure that the hon. Minster is well protected and escorted back to his place of residence.

Having said that, I am looking also at the tours. I do know that Northern Province is very vast. At the moment, he may not have sufficient resources with which to be able to perform. Let us look at the main sectors of the economy in the province.

Firstly, roads, I would like to say, Luwingu Turn Off, Mporokoso and Kaputa, we cannot continue with the current situation in the province. I am sure that I do not intend to draw in the Chairperson, but I am sure that inward the Chairperson will agree with me that it takes somebody…

Madam Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

The Chairperson: Debate without drawing the Chair into your debate.

Major Chibamba: Madam Chairperson, thank you very much, but the fact still remains that we have a problem…

Laughter

Major Chibamba:…in the province because of the size. Northern Province like Luapula and North-Western receives a lot of rains, much of the time surplus to requirement. Therefore, I would like to call upon the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives to do slightly more than he did last year. We are very thankful, hon. Minister to you and his Excellency the President. You gave up enough agro-inputs last year, but you did not put in place safety mechanisms to make sure that those agro-inputs did not find their way into the neighbouring countries. I have facts, hon. Minister, Madam Chairperson, that fertiliser meant to benefit the people who deserve it, in whose name the President went out of his way to get additional fertiliser disappeared in thin air. All we are told is that no we followed the guidelines. We would like to see that District Cooperative Unions are now given more powers to store and distribute the inputs, while the DC and his team District Agricultural Coordinator (DACO), Office of the President and Police are looking after the money. They can account for it.

I want to say this again, Madam Chairperson, if you look at the other sub-sectors of the economy, education, tourism, health, water and sanitation. Hon. Mwiimbu says that you do not sink a borehole in the lake. Indeed, you do not want to sink a borehole in the lake, do you? We have a problem in Northern Province because hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, I am aware that you are doing something about it, but I want to encourage you to please, expeditiously, give us some funding to support Chambeshi Water and Sewerage Company. Thank you very much hon. Minster, I do not want to go beyond that. Thank you.

Laughter

Major Chibamba: The other point is that Northern Province is endowed with a lot of natural resources like any other province who does not happen its level of exploitation of those minerals and so on.

Now, I am going back to roads, I did not know that our able hon. Minister, Hon. Simbao, who is among the three hon. Cabinet Ministers coming from the province. Let us not suggest that we have to abandon other provinces needs, but I think it is only fair that once in a while Cabinet Ministers do find time to join us in the province to discuss development issues.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: On Rural Electrification Programme, I know that there is an issue of Shiwang’andu-Manshya Hydro-Scheme. I would like to appeal to you hon. Minister to put in your programme and your mind the needs of the local people, not what I am hearing on the ground, where some people who have 45 square kilometres of land still want to extend that land and light it up for ranching. I do not think that is what is required in this country. I will not support my colleagues from Southern Province. Why should animals all of a sudden become more important than human beings? Hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, I would like you to kindly look at the plight of the people of Shiwang’andu. Last month, eight people were hounded bundled into the vehicle and taken to prison. The following morning appeared before the courts and sentenced to something like 2 years each. Why? Because a stray hippo which had been wounded by some other people somewhere else ran through a village and went and fell down. Naturally, I think the people said here we are…

Laughter

Major Chibamba:…and then they were picked up. Poor people were locked up I had to go there myself. I think that is not fair if a person has committed an offence, it should be treated with dignity that human beings deserve. Yes, hon. Deputy Minister, like I said I have every hope and trust in you. Tour all the districts. Kaputa is one of the very difficult districts…

Hon. Member: You are boring the Chair!

Laughter

Major Chibamba: … so is Chilubi. There are a lot of problems with regard to communication. On account of lack of time, I may not go into details, but I am sure that when the hon. Minister tours Chilubi, he will see where we need an embankment in order for us to cross to the other side.

As regards Nabwalya in Mpika and Isoka East, it is very difficult. The Muyombe Road has been worked on, but it has poor terrain. This particular road is very important. It needs a very fertile land in terms of agriculture and requires maintenance on yearly basis.

I also want to talk about Mbala …

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Major Chibamba: I would like to talk about Mbala because the Airport there has remained attended to. The economic importance of that particular facility cannot be overemphasised. To get to anywhere from Mpulungu, it is not as easy I am talking. In general, let us look at Luwingu and the twelve districts, including Lunte Constituency. With regard to Senga Hills, the place is so wet, almost throughout the year. Therefore, it poses a lot of challenges, not only to our people, but also to hon. Members of Parliament and Cabinet Ministers.

Finally, I would like to see that the road from Kasama to Mambwe Mission through Kayambi is worked on. We have three bridges which includes Mbesuma and Safwa. For Mbesuma Bridge, somebody was given money, but they have disappeared in thin air.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Sikazwe (Chimbamilonga): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to debate on the Vote for Northern Province.

Northern Province is considered as a rural province, and it is a main player in the development of the nation. It is a player in the Millennium Development Goals with regard to the education sector.

Much has been spoken about the Millennium Development Goals which has to be met by 2015. When I would like to appeal to the entire House, including the Cabinet Ministers and His Honour the Vice-President, to trek down to Northern Province and start looking at the infrastructure. When we compare the infrastructure and the population of Northern Province, the infrastructure is less. I would like to demonstrate this in this way. During the tripartite elections, the pattern of voting in Zambia was good, especially in Northern Province. It performed very well and this boosted the numbers of votes for the MMD.

Madam, I would like to talk about the population growth in Northern Province. The population in Northern Province has grown so much. I would like to appeal that you treat this province as urban in terms of infrastructure and education.

Mr Milupi: Quality!

Laughter

Mr Sikazwe: This is because an educated nation is a wealth nation, and interpretation and implementation of policies is realised in full.

Madam Chairperson, education has an input in the development of this nation.

Mr Kambwili: MMD Quality!

Mr Sikazwe: I would like to appeal that Mulakupikwa College which was supposed to be the training college for the police is transformed into a Secondary School Teachers College in Northern Province. We further propose Lukashya Trades Schools which has very good infrastructure can be used by the University of Zambia for the college or faculty of Engineering for people in Northern Province. This will improve the level of education in the province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: I would like to request that the repatriating process for refugees in Mwange Refugee Camp is started. This is opposed to bringing the street kids there. We would rather you bring another teachers college to train primary school teachers.

Madam Chairperson, Kaputa District to date, does not have a completed secondary school. In Chilubi District, it has taken nineteen years. The Ministry of Education must stick to the motto of stability for the education sector. As the Government, we mean well. We have to start delivering these services to the nation.

The secondary school has to be built in Mpulungu District and Lunte Constituency. This should a policy like what the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is doing. We should have a policy of build secondary schools in all constituencies just like we give Constituency Development Fund to all constituencies. It is time for education to reach every area of this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: There is a school called Kalabwe Secondary School in Mporokoso. Money was donated for this school to be built. We look forward to the day when the Ministry of Education will come and open this school. We have to make sure that we meet the Millennium Development Goals in Northern Province with regard to the education sector.

Isoka Boys Secondary School, it has been out beaten. I am not going to stop talking about the Education Sector because education is the backbone of the nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikazwe: In Isoka East and West, we need another girls school in Muyombe. At one time, it was better for us to take our children to Malawi because Isoka Boys Secondary School is outdated. We have one technical school called Mungwi Secondary School. I would like to request the Ministry of Education to bring another technical school. We understand that you are trying to bring some more secondary schools, but it must not take time because the time for the target of the Millennium Development Goals is getting nearer.

Interruptions

Mr Sikazwe: Northern Province has a lot of boarding schools. The economy is a bit biting today. We need to shift from this notion. The cost of boarding school has reduced the number of students going to secondary schools hence the level of illiteracy is still very high. If everything which is said is done, the establishment of secondary schools in what I have said before will reduce the level of illiteracy and we will meet the Millennium Development Goals at a good note.

I thank you, Madam.

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Madam Chairperson, in supporting the Vote on Western Province, I would like to pick on just a few points.

With regard to the Rural Electrification Programme, many of the districts in Western Province are not connected to the national grid. This makes the province one of the least developed provinces. In fact, if you look at the statistics available at the Central Statistics Office, you will discover that Western Province is the least developed. We made an appeal to use gas in places where there is no electricity. I urge this Government to connect the districts of Western Province to the national grid since the hon. Minister for Energy and Water Development is very hard working and has no problems addressing the problems of the whole country.

I now want to talk about the mode of transport in Western Province. I have been hearing issues about the Kuomboka Ceremony being a disaster, but I just want to look at the issues of canals and canal clearing. We have no roads to talk about in Western Province. Therefore, maybe while our Government is still making up its mind to work even on the Kalabo/Mongu Road and about connecting all our districts to the provincial headquarters because most of them are not connected, I appeal that some money be found to work on our canals so that we can have continuous transportation because the people of Western Province go to the water like ducks. It is natural and, therefore, we need those things we used to call in the old times, long jets where you have powered boats like the post boat that used to be there transporting people right across the Zambezi River and connecting the various districts by water transport. We do not have any post boat any more. We want to have boats on most of the rivers in Western Province.

I do not know whether Government has resigned that they will not be able to work on our roads, but I notice on Head 94/08, Sub-head 1, Programme 7, Activity 02 – Vegetation Control where an allocation of K358,762,559 was made last year for controlling vegetation and there is nothing this year in that line making it so difficult to have the roads even cleared in such a way that people can see the strange or scott-cart routes so that they can move from one point to another.

Hon. Government Member: What page is that?

Ms Imbwae: I indicated the pager number, Madam Chairperson.

If you continue also to look at page 1,287, Vote 94/08, on Sub-head 1, Programme 8 Roads Rehabilitation (Feeder Roads) – (PRP), again the issues of feeder roads grading and roads rehabilitation have been removed from the budget. We do not have any allocation this year. Surely, there must be a road somewhere that can be graded in the province. I wonder what is happening to us.

Madam Chairperson, on page 1,289, Sub-head 1, Programme 7, Activity 01 – Tree Planting – K30,000,000, an amount of K119,949,000 was allocated last year, but that has been reduced to K30 million only this year.

For those that are familiar with Western Province, they are aware that there is a lot of timber that has been logged without much control. A lot of money was provided for tree planting last year, but it has been reduced this year and I am wondering why this has been done because we need to have something that we can be proud of. Western Province has hard woods which are being logged and taken out of the province. We do not benefit from the use of forests and forestry resources. I am aware that there is no honey being transported or kept from North-Western Province. I was working on a project like that and so I know and I know that a tonne of honey costs more than a tonne of copper and this has been spilled to Western Province and yet the forest belt is exactly the same. I urge the Government to look at spreading this that does not cost much. It is not like mining. We are being forgotten on the mining sector. Please, let us be remembered on bee-keeping and forestry management issues so that we can also contribute to the moneys that are coming into the treasury.

Madam Chairperson, on the same page, Sub-head 1, Programme 8, Activity 01 – Forest License Inspection – K3,202,000, the amount has been reduced from K98,320,000 to only K3,202,000. How will they do the activities with such a drastic reduction? It only means that even the little forests that are left are going to be logged without anyone knowing that we are actually losing a big and critical resource.

I want to progress to page 1,291, Head 94/18, on Sub-head 1, Programme 7 – Vegetation control (PRP), an amount of K222,763,891 for canal clearing, but there is no vote for clearing our canals this year.

Interruptions.

Madam Chairperson: Order! Your voices are a little too high and the Chair can not follow what the hon. member is saying. Can we be quite and consult quietly, if we have to.

Will the hon. Member for Lukulu West continue, please.

Ms Imbwae: I was just mentioning that on page 1,291, Head 94/18, Sub-head 1, Programme 7, Activity 01 – Vegetation Control, an amount of K222,963,891 was given last year and there is completely nothing this year. How will we clear our canals when this is the only mode of transport that we have? In fact, because of lack of clearing of canals and transport other than for water, Western Province depends on so much on water for entertainment, survival and for the cultural traditions that are well known in the country. We only want canals should not only be cleared, but dug out and connected so that we have an inter-section of canals connecting most of Western Province and Southern Province because it is possible to sketch even the Sioma Falls so that we are connected to other provinces.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson.

Madam Chairperson, first of all, let me join Hon. Mtonga and on behalf of my colleagues, Members of Parliament for constituencies in Lusaka, in commiserating with our colleague and brother, the hon. Minister of the Province, on the demise of his daughter. We all beseech God to give him strength in this very trying moment.

Mr Mtonga: Nizoona.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, in contributing to the vote on the Floor, I would like to reiterate what I said last year with regard to the parallel structures of the administration in Zambia. I would like to appeal to Government to take the decentralisation policy very seriously so that the administration at provincial level becomes much more of a supervisory function than execution of programmes.

If you look in the Yellow Book, you shall see that there is some duplication of resource allocation. While some money is allocated to the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services, there is also money allocated in provinces to the same function. That creates duplication of effort. I think that that money should instead be sent to districts so that local authorities have a direct responsibility in executing projects such as the ones that are provided for now at provincial level.

Having said that, let me turn to my province. In so doing, let me caution my dear brother, the hon. Minister of the province, that he has a very huge challenge before him. He is provincial minister of the most densely populated province in Zambia. At every given time, he will be responsible for the lives of more than two million people. Those two million people, hon. Minister, require the provision of services and infrastructure. What they mostly require is the provision of open and transparent decision making. I want to assure the hon. Minister that we, the hon. Members of Parliament from Lusaka, are always available to assist you in that very challenging task. All you have to do is continue with what we have started; to include us in the process of decision making. This should start right at the time that we start budgeting for the coming year. Once hon. Members are involved in that process, I can assure you that you shall have a lot of success in Lusaka province. We, in Lusaka province are not politicians for the sake of politics. We would like to be politicians for the sake of delivering that much need service to the people in the province. I have no doubt in my mind that if you agree to work with us, we shall score success, not for yourself, not for your political party but for the children of Lusaka province. That is what they want.

I would like you, hon. Minister, to join us when we urge Government to deliver development to Lusaka province. I would like you to join us and not stand on the other side when we, hon. Members of Parliament in Lusaka, ask Government to release the money that is provided for our in vote. I say this because if you look at the Yellow book, hon. Minister, you shall see that some money that was allocated last year was not spent. The money allocated for local courts is an example, yet that money was not released. We are put in a situation where we have to blame you and yet, you do not join us in calling upon the Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to release the money to your province. Instead, your predecessors would then become the scapegoats for Government. You are part of us and should join with us when we go knocking on the doors of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning so that our voices are heard and that we are standing in unison.

I will give another example, hon. Minister. For health provision in your province, last year a total of K2.7 billion was allocated. Sadly, only K2.4 billion has been allocated this year. Yet, the hospitals and clinics that were targeted for that money last year, not all of them were done. I want to acknowledge that there was some work done for Chongwe Clinic and for a clinic in the constituency that you represent, hon. Minister. However, there are some clinics that were not attended to. A case at hand is Chaisa Clinic. Last year, there was an allocation of K445 million for a clinic in Chaisa. I doubt if even a site has been put in place or if anyone in the Ministry of Health has identified where that clinic will be constructed. Yet again this year, there is another K455 million allocated for the same project. The question is, where did the K455 million that was allocated last year go to? How come it was not spent in Chaisa?  Those are some of the questions that must be answered.

In addition to that and I do not mean to say anything ill about the people of Bunda Bunda but I think that we should start to rationalise. Surely, would it make sense for us to put our Lusaka provincial hospital in Bunda Bunda? How many people will receive treatment if that hospital is tucked away in the very periphery of our province? Yet we are leaving people settled in Chongwe. Would it not make better sense to put an ultra-modern hospital in the centre of the province, in Chongwe, which people from Bunda Bunda and other areas around Chongwe will have access to, rather than tacking it away in Bunda Bunda? These are the questions that you as hon. Minister of the Province should be helping us to answer. What we need, like you have done in Lusaka and what we like you to do, is that the constituencies should have referral clinics but the centre is the one that should have the main hospital so that everyone in the province has access to it.

I hope, as the money has not yet been utilised, that hon. Minister you shall sit with my brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for the area and also with our colleagues in the Ministry of Health so that we can rationalise that. It is for the good of all the residents of Lusaka province in that the hospital is centrally located. I am not saying it should be in Lusaka but in a constituency that is densely populated. In addition, I would like to propose to you, hon. Minister, that when you come up with project proposals, sit with us so that instead of spreading money thinly across the province, we can rationalise. I would have been very happy if the budget today had indicated that this year you are targeting the Lusaka provincial hospital and Chaisa clinic and leave out the others so that we attend to them next year. That way we shall be starting and completing projects within the year rather the idea of thinly spreading money across the whole province hoping that you will appease people. You are not going to appease anybody if every year the only thing you do is to dig trenches and fail to continue with construction because there is not enough money. I do not think that anyone of my colleagues in Lusaka province will be against that approach because our interest is not petty or for a particular constituency but for all the people in the province and through them all the people of Zambia. I think that rationalising will give us better dividends from the money that we are using right now.

Madam Chairperson, let me add to that by talking about education. Hon. Minister, I hope you will join me in lamenting the sharp reduction in the allocation to Lusaka province for the provision of improvement to education from K5.6 billion that was allocated last to only K2.6 billion this year. Bearing in mind that Lusaka is the most densely populated province, hon. Minister, you should actually be joining us in urging the hon. minister to re-think this provision. I am very glad to see that there is a provision for bore-holes in schools. Indeed, like I said before, if schools in Kanyama will run with pit-latrines, what impression are we creating to schools in Nalikwanda constituency?

Mr D. Mwila: Shame!

Mr Lubinda: If schools in the city are running with pit-latrines, I wonder what we should expect in schools in Solwezi Central. If are to show that we are really intending to develop this country, we must demonstrate that the people who are living in Lusaka are provided with these facilities. We can not in this era, have schools in the city that are running with pit-latrines. I am glad that for the very first time, there is an allocation for the provision of water to schools in Lusaka. What I regret though, is that it is only K200 million. I am sure that the Hon. Minister of Works Supply, who does his work, will tell me that the K200 million will translate into a maximum of 20 bore-holes. I really hope that next year, there will be an increase in allocation to that vote.

Another matter of concern, which is also as a result of the dense population in Lusaka, is the issue of resettlement. Hon. Minister, there are some people in your province that have been displaced and yet, we have not heard a word from you. I want to remind you of the people I am talking about. There are people in Matero who were displaced because we wanted to put up a damp site for solid waste. One wonders where those people have gone to. Where have they been relocated?

Another group of people who have been displaced are the people of Mahopo Village. You are aware Minister that the villagers in Mahopo have been sued and yet we have not heard any comment at all from your office. I would like to appeal to you Minster to take concern with issues of displacement in Lusaka because there are lots of people who are being displaced.

What about the people whose houses are being demolished now? How are we going to take care of them? These are matters that I would like us to discuss so that we find lasting solutions to the problems our people are experiencing.

Mr V. Mwale: Zoona!

Mr Lubinda: Minister, seeing that a lot of people have started dosing as it has been very long session today, I want to end by saying to you that Lusaka should be the hub of the country and therefore the state of roads in Lusaka is a matter of great importance. We can not have in Lusaka’s Kamwala Trading Area roads that are impassable. That is the second trading area of Zambia. That must worry you Minister. I would like to see that you take action to ensure that roads in Lusaka are done.

I have said before that feeder are not necessarily roads that bring maize. They are roads that take people from centres of production to centres of marketing. And for the people of urban Lusaka their production is their labour, so the roads that take them from the areas where they gain energy to where they expend it should be considered feeder roads. Put money in them as well.

Hon. Minister, let me end by urging you to emulate your other colleagues from amongst members of parliament in Lusaka to devote yourself to Government duty. I am aware of some deputy ministers who might not have the capacity to do that. I know you have it. I am sure you can utilize that time to develop this country. You should not be amongst those people who spend Government time in government offices doing nothing but just planning on how to fix others. Do not be like those deputy ministers whose jobs is to put their legs on the tables of Government thinking of how to be vexatious and frivolous over other people. Once we notice that in you, I can assure you we will chase you from Lusaka. Such people do not belong to Lusaka or anywhere in this country. We know that you can not manage to sink so low. You are a man of high integrity. We would like to support you because you mean well for this country and want to do politics for development and not for vexation and frivolous issues.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Banda (Chasefu): Thank you Madam Chairperson. Before I give a state of development for Eastern Province, I would like to congratulate Hon. Nkhata for having been re-appointed Minister in charge of the Eastern Province. Thank you very much for this appointment because I am pretty sure that Hon. Nkhata is a man of few words but more of action.

I will also be failing my duty if I do not thank the New Deal Government and especially President Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for having appointed my elder brother Hon. Rupiah Bwezani Banda to be Vice-President.

The house has already observed that this is a man of great experience both locally and internationally. The appointment could not have come at a better time than now. Because this is the time we need reconciliation and politics of development because a country that is wallowing in poverty is not a country worth living in.

I would like now to give the state of Development in the Eastern Province.

The Health Sector

We have a general hospital called Chipata General Hospital. This is supposed to be a provincial Hospital catering for the people of Eastern Province. Ideally, this hospital should have a staff complement of 32 doctors. However, I regret to say that we only have three doctors working today at the Provincial General Hospital.

Is this an achievement forty-five years after independence?

Hon. Members: No!

Mr C. Banda: I leave it up to you to judge. We go to Katete District which has no Government district hospital 45 years after independence. Had the Anglicans not constructed St Francis Hospital the people of Katete would have had no where to turn to.

We are urging this listening Government of the MMD to do something in terms of constructing a District Hospital in Katete. I know that land for the construction of the hospital was allocated a long time ago. But for whatever reason the Ministry of Health sees no urgency at all in appeasing the people of Katete who sacrificed immensely for the independence of this country.

My appeal, without any apology, is that the people of Katete also deserve a share of the national cake.

Lundazi District has got a District Hospital. However, what has the MMD government done? Yes they started in earnest an expansion project to this district hospital but unfortunately, the expansion stored in 2001 and I hope this time around you will see the need to finish construction of the extensions to this hospital.

I am not asking for too much. I am asking for what we deserve. We are also Zambians.

Chama District deserves special attention; it deserves a hospital that can rightly be termed a district hospital.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Mr C. Banda: Madam Chairperson, Hon. Chilembo knows and he is crying everyday wondering what wrong we have done to this country that no one sees the need for us to have a good hospital. Chama, Lundazi, Katete and Chipata are part of Zambia and our appeal is for a fair share of the national cake.

Agriculture sector

All of you know that the economy of the Eastern |province is predominantly agriculture. But what problems have beset this sector? The hon. Minister of Agriculture will agree that the first problem is late delivery of inputs. This is the song we have been singing day in and day out. You can look at the Parliamentary records here dating as far back as 20 years where we always have been crying for early delivery of inputs. I hope this time around with the hard working Minister of Agriculture in place Eastern Province will have something to smile about. We need to be supplied the inputs in good time.

We produce a lot. Last year we produced a lot of cotton but the selling price of cotton was fetching less than the cost of production. Are you encouraging agriculture? You know we are dependent on agriculture. We do not have oil although there was an attempt to drill some oil in Chama district through the courtesy of Placid Oil. I will later be appealing to the Minister of Mines to ensure that we revisit that project because there could be oil. There is also evidence that fires break out at will in Chama and this may be an indication that we may also have oil in Chama.

But on a serious note, we in the Eastern Province in Chama depend on agriculture. But what is the state of feeder roads? Feeder roads are in deplorable condition hon. Minister. We are appealing to you to ensure that our feeder roads are repaired so that our produce can be taken to the market. It is a humble appeal and since you are committed to agriculture and knowing how serious you are, I think our feeder roads this time around will be attended to.

Some Dams in Eastern Province were washed away as far back as a decade ago and there are numerous reports in Government offices about the condition of these dams. Very few have been attended to. My appeal is that you need to attend to these dams that have not been attended to. You have National Service which we can call land navy.

They have a lot of equipment. Why can we not utilise them? Please, the people of Eastern Province rely on agriculture and they need dams.

Madam Chairperson, it is not only that, there is also a question of rural electrification. We have a constituency in Eastern Province called Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency. There is no electricity there. None! I am happy that we have an able person for a Minister of Energy and Water Development and I hope this time around, he will look sympathetically at Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency. We also need electricity.

I know that the MMD Government connected Lundazi to the Malawi Grid, but why not the Zambian Grid? Are we closer to Malawi? Should we pay loyalty to Malawi and not Zambia? We are appealing to you hon. Minister that we also want to be connected to the Zambia National Grid. We are part of you. What would happen to people of Lundazi, if war breaks out with Malawi? God forbid! It means we would be blacked out. We are also Zambians and we need to be connected to the national grid. Chipata is not far from the Lundazi. We have Mwasemphangwe Farming Scheme. Good people have been resettled there, but there is no electricity. How do you expect people to develop? My appeal to my brother- I know you have a heart, but I do not know which side of your body the heart is.

Laughter

Mr C. Banda: If it is on your right, please, touch it and feel the heartbeat. I know you have a feeling for the people of Eastern Province.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Mr C. Banda: With regard to the road infrastructure- I am already worried that soon I would be heading for my constituency- yes, I will be travelling on the good road from Lusaka up to Nyimba. After that, the road starts getting worse.

Mr Mbewe: Yohoya mwana wa kwitu!

Mr C. Banda: When you reach Chipata, the road is a bit alright. However, when you proceed from Chipata to Lundazi, it is hell. I cannot even say when you are travelling between Lundazi and Chama. What wrong have we done? The further you go from the capital city, the worse the condition of roads in Easter Province.

Mr Mbewe: Tell them!

Mr C. Banda: Why hast thou forsaken us?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter
 
Mr C. Banda: I have got a very strong voice and I know you can hear me.

Interruptions

Mr C. Banda: The point is that we also need a share of the national cake and we need to travel on good roads. Eastern Province is part of Zambia. Do not forget. Do not tempt us to start sloganeering Umodzi kumawa! We do not want that. We would like to be part and parcel of Zambia. People of Eastern Province are loyal, but do not take their loyalty for granted because if you forsake us, we have the capacity to turn on our backs on you. It will not be good. God forbid! What is important is that we also deserve a fair share of the national cake.

Hon. UDA Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: I remember before the 2006 elections word went around that we would only have development if we give you Members of Parliament. This time around we have given you many Members of Parliament.

Hon. UDA Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: We have even given you a Vice-president.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: Time for the MMD Government to honour their pledges is now.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: It is either you give us development or do not value us.

Hon. UDA Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: If you turn your back on us, we will withdraw them …

Laughter

Mr C. Banda: … and next time Eastern Province will be Opposition. We do not want that. We would like to work with you because we think MMD can deliver.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: Now, lastly but not the least, I would like to end on an appeal which has similarly been made by our colleagues from Southern Province. Our brothers and sisters from Southern Province have always been crying for the Bottom Road …

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Banda: … but we, the people of Eastern Province, are crying for the ‘top road’.

Laughter

Mr C. Banda: This road will run from Lundazi to Chama to Muyombe to Ntendere, Mulekatembo, Nakonde up to Mpulungu Port. We are making this appeal because we would like to open this top area of the country to development.

With these few words, I know that Hon. Nkhata will ensure that during his tenure of office the reality of the top road will be achieved.

I thank you very much.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): I thank you, Madam Chairperson, for giving this opportunity to contribute on this Vote.

First of all, I would like to thank the Government for announcing that they have secured 23 million …

Mr D. Mwila: Condoms!

Laughter

Mr V. Mwale: … Euros for the construction of the Lusaka-Chipata Road.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr V. Mwale: Madam Chairperson, Bembas say, ‘ushitasha mwana wandoshi.’

Hon. Members: Meaning?

Mr V. Mwale: It means that he who does not appreciate is a son of the witch.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V.  Mwale: Therefore, I would like to thank the Government for this gesture.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: However, we would like this to be a reality. We do not want this to just be on paper.

Mr D. Mwila: Hammer!

Mr V. Mwale: We have been crying about this road just like our friends in Southern Province.

Mr Muntanga: Which one?

Mr V. Mwale: The Lusaka-Chipata road or the Great East Road.

Interruptions

Mr V. Mwale: We know that some good work has been done from Lusaka to Nyimba, but from Nyimba to Chipata, the road is very bad. We have two paramount chiefs in Eastern Province. Do not forget that we would like this to be a reality. We would like this money that has been provided to be released. We do not want to take twelve months to just do feasibility studies. No!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: We would like this to be a reality hon. Ministers of Finance and National Planning and Works and Supply.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr V. Mwale: I also want to thank the Government for starting the Chipata-Muchinji Rail Project.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: This is a very good gesture for the people of Eastern Province.

Mr F. Tembo: Hammer!

Mr V. Mwale: We know that our friends in Malawi built their railway line up to Mchinji in 1983.

Mr D. Mwila: Before you were born.

Mr V. Mwale: From 1983 up to date, we have been singing about the Chipata-Mchinji rail line. I would like to thank Hon. Katele Kalumba for mentioning it. This is a very curial project.

Mr  Mbewe: Yes!

Mr V. Mwale: We are tired of referring to Copperbelt and Lusaka as being along the line of rail. We would also like Eastern Province to be along the line of rail.

Hon. V. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport that this project has started.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: However, what we would like to see is for this project to move. In the past, we used to say, ‘no we will do this,’ but not even an inch has been done. This time we would like to see this project completed. We know that Malawi is opening a sea route. They will soon have a port on Lake Malawi. The Shire River is being widened to Zambezi and we will be bringing things from the Indian Ocean and so Malawi is closer to Chipata. We would like to import and export using this same port and therefore, the rail line would be very crucial. We would like this rail line to be completed.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank the Government for the fertiliser support programme.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: This is a very good programme. We know that we are moving away from extreme levels of poverty in Eastern Province because people are getting subsidised fertiliser and are able to grow more maize and other food crops.

People are getting subsidised fertilizer. They are able to grow maize and have a lot of food. This time, even if we are talking about drought, people have got something that they harvested last year. This is very good. We know that we had a very bad hunger situation in this country. We used to import maize but now we have got food. In this regard, as people of Eastern Province, we want to thank the Government for doing a recommendable job.

Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply should think about the Chipata/Mfuwe Road. This road should be tarred. Mfuwe is bringing a lot of money to this nation. The South Luangwa National Park is also bringing a lot of money to this nation. In this regard, we want a tar mark road from Chipata to Mfuwe so that tourists can move without any problems. This will enable our local tourists that have never been to Mfuwe to travel so that they also see the animals in Mfuwe. When some of the people in Eastern Province are on holidays, they would rather go to Lake Malawi instead of Mfuwe because of the poor state of the road from Chipata to Mfuwe. We acknowledge that at least, some development has been done in Eastern Province but we also need a tar mark road in that area.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to talk about copper in Petauke. We would like to urge the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to open a mine in Petauke. If you could find investors who could quickly come and start mining the copper in that area, we would appreciate it, Sir. Our local people in Petauke should be employed in the mine.

The Chairperson: Order! The Chair is ‘Madam.’

Mr V. Mwale: Madam Chairperson, thank you for your guidance. I was making a point that the copper mine should be opened in Petauke. This will help our local people in that area to be employed and it will bring a lot of revenue in the province.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to comment on the cattle restocking exercise that we hear about in Southern Province. Even in Eastern Province, we need this exercise because we also have cattle there.  We also have the East Coast Fever and we know that most of our people have lost a lot of cattle due to this scourge. When we were looking at the statistics of cattle in Zambia, it was in this House when we learnt that Eastern Province was actually third. This area has been hit by East Coast Fever and we need restocking exercise. Our people should also benefit from this exercise because they have lost a lot of cattle. It should not be Southern Province alone.

Hon. UPND Members interrupted.

Mr V. Mwale: You should do it in both Southern and Eastern Provinces as well.

Madam Chairperson, lastly, I would like to comment on the situation that we have in Chipata District. We have about forty-one to forty-two rural health centres in Chipata District but we have one ambulance. This ambulance is for the whole Chipata District, which comprises of four constituencies.  Through you, we are asking the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the hon. Minister of Health to do something about this situation.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the many voices that have already been added. Firstly, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province for his appointment. He is a first young hon. Minister for Copperbelt Province.

Madam Chairperson, every time I debate about Copperbelt, I talk about issues that are close to my heart. These are issues that are pertinent to the development of this country. Without the Copperbelt, there would be no copper you are seeing around here and there would be no development in this country. Most of the things that have happened in Zambia today are as a result of the investment that went into the copper mines. It is as a result of the long production history of the Copperbelt. No one can take that away from us.

Madam, when we talk about the Copperbelt today, we are talking about the problems that have come to the Copperbelt as a result of liberalisation, privatisation and the briefcase companies that this Government has brought. It is important that we talk about these issues because without bad policies being implemented in this country, the Copperbelt would have been an icon of development. Today, when we talk about the Copperbelt, it saddens the people of there because it is not what it used to be. Every time we talk about the Copperbelt, we do realise that we have been promised and assured by this Government.

Madam Chairperson, explanations have been given but what I want to tell this Government that promises are promises and assurances are always assurances. Explanations will continue to be explanations. What we want is performance because it is reality. There has been no reality. This Budget we are talking about is just a promise and an assurance. Explanations are being given when we ask questions in this House. What the people of the Copperbelt Province want and need is reality. We want to see that whatever you are talking about will become tangible, something that people will be able to appreciate.

The Copperbelt has been promised over and over. At times, they have even been promised title deeds. On the Copperbelt, a number of people bought houses from ZCCM ten years ago. Today, we still talk about them over and over. Every time I stand here, I have spoken about it and nothing has happened. When we try to ask, explanations, promises and assurances are always given. How do you call yourselves the New Deal Government like this? What type of dealership are you talking about? We are talking about assurances, which do not change anything.

Madam Chairperson, what we are saying is that when we ask questions everytime on title deeds, this Government explains. Even if it is a long explanation, they will give it. We therefore, want this scenario to change. We want Zambia to be different. We have a situation in this country where Permanent Secretaries and District Commissioners behave as though they are bosses to hon. Members of Parliament. Who told them that? It is because of the culture that has been created by this Government. We do not need that situation. We need them to appreciate who the hon. Member of Parliament is. We need them to appreciate.

Mr Mwangala: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Mwangala: Madam Chairperson, I have been in this House for almost three months. Is the hon. Member of Parliament on the Floor in order to condemn the innocent District Commissioners who are not with us in this House. As far as I am concerned, these people are doing commendable job. Is he in order to do that? I seek your serious ruling, Madam Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! In guiding the House, the Chair would like to say that the District Commissioner is not a person but an office. Therefore, they can be discussed as District Commissioners and not as individuals occupying the offices.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mukanga: Thank you madam Chairperson, all I was saying is that we need a culture, which will appreciate that the Members of Parliament have a very important role to play, in the development of this country and that without them, there would be no development. This because, it is the Member of Parliament who comes to stand on the Floor of this House and explain the problems that pertain to their areas of operation. Therefore, is important that the Permanent Secretaries and District Commissioners appreciate that.

Madam Chairperson, I was talking about the Copperbelt .Foreigners have come to the Copperbelt, they come with briefcases and very poor, at the end of the day, they leave the Copperbelt richer than they came. They leave our ancestors who have settled on that land poorer and destitute. In the land of their ancestors, they have become destitute and continue to suffer. We are not going to accept that on the Copperbelt. We need to ensure that the indigenous Zambian on this land on the Copperbelt, which belongs to our ancestors, appreciates and benefit.

Zambia to day is left worse than it was found by the various investors who have come, especially the foreign investors. It has been left worse than it was found and yet all of us here have not even benefited anything. We can not continue with these polices. It is high time we changed. We are saying that the hon. Minister should look in to these issues on the Copperbelt. I think this is why when we came to this House as Members of Parliament from the Copperbelt, we said that, when it came to mineral royalty, we wanted part of that to be remaining with the local authorities so that our Chiefs and District Councils could benefit.

We want a change in Zambia; we want people to benefit because they are not there by accident. God gave us all these resources, we will offer an account for failing to utilise all these natural resources that God has given us.

Madam Chairperson, we see a situation in this country where our ancestors are sitting for many years on top of this land and in the name of exploration and development, people have come and said; where your house is, there are minerals and eventually they have become destitute. That is not what we want. At the end of ‘vulture mining’ in this land, we foresee no change. Surprisingly, as I speak we have the Gem on the Copperbelt and emeralds. What has this Government done to put measures in place so that those Gem Stones can be mined by the Government and the money ploughed back into this country? And yet we created a situation, a loophole, where foreigners would come in and mine our Gem stones at our expense and we continue to suffer. Why can the Government not go in to that investment so the Zambians benefit for the first time?

As for the environment, I would like to say that when this ‘vulture mining’ is finished, there are always a lot of problems. There are many environmental issues that have not been sorted out. When you look at vegetation on the Copperbelt, there are areas where trees are not growing. There are no trees in Kankoyo and if people plant the trees, they will die because the soil has become acidic.

If the plants and dogs can die, what about a human being? People that are coming from the Copperbelt are contaminated inside…

Hon Member of Parliament: No.

Mr Mukanga…the acid has damaged their internals and we are surviving by the grace of God because….

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga: Because you know that if plants can die, what about human beings. All I am tying to say is that we need to be compensated heavily because the sulphur dioxide has damaged our lungs and has damaged a lot of people’s lives on the Copperbelt.

Hon Member of Parliament: Hear, hear!

All I am saying is that there should be a proper policy to ensure that the people who are exposed to such environmental pollution are compensated properly.

We had a situation in Mufulira where there was acid contamination in water, nothing has happened. We might even have people who have died because of that but this Government has taken it lightly.

Madam Chairperson, on the Tourism Development Credit Fund, a lot of people have gotten funds from the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources and I do not know how they will pay back. Most of the nurseries, for those who went into Horticulture, have been burnt by the sulphur dioxide. How do you expect them to pay back? In addition, you will be following them up pay because they have failed to pay and yet it comes back to this Government because you have not allowed the Environmental Council of Zambia to take the same stance, to be independent. Every time the Environmental Council of Zambia wants to work, you are there, pushing them around.

When it comes to the local worker on the Copperbelt, the miner, he has been offered very bad conditions of service, to an extent where you will see that if there are two people, a white man and a Zambian …

Hon Member of Parliament: The black Zambian.

Mr Mukanga… the black Zambian, yes, is working what will happen is that even if they are doing the same job, the black Zambia will be getting about twenty-times less than the counterpart. What type of Government is this? Where are the Labour laws? We sit and say we will review the Labour laws later while the people on the Copperbelt are suffering. We will not accept that. We want the Minister of Labour and Social Security to look at issues seriously and lip service will be condemned and shall not be accepted.

When we talk about education in the Peri-Urban areas, we have situations where children have to walk five kilometers to access the nearest secondary school and there are no High Schools. On Kabwe Road, people walk eight kilometers to access the nearest school. What education are you talking about? If education is power, you are educated and you do not want the children to be educated. It does not work like that. We want proper empowerment this time. This time around, we are not going to letting you go. We want you to ensure that there is proper development and that people are able to benefit. Education is number one key and we want to see it, it is a chaste priority. We want to ensure that our children are educated.

Madam Chairperson, coming to the roads in and out of Copperbelt, I will talk about the Chembe Bridge. Every time you are talking about constructing the Chembe Bridge, what about the pedicle road? A bridge without a pedicle road is nothing, there will be no development. And when carrying out projects, ensure that the projects you are carrying out, if you are working on the pedicle road, work on the Chembe Bridge as well. Why should you work on one and leave the other.

Roads from Ndola to Mufulira-Sabina are impassable and yet millions of tones of copper pass through that road. The Chingola-Kitwe Road needs a dual carriage. People are dying everyday and yet all you are offering is lip service.

When it comes to the townships on the Copperbelt, the Macha Road in Ndola is impassable. Not even your VXs can pass in that road, what type of development are you talking about? It is important that you are serous.

Roads in Kalulushi and Chingola, are not even working…

Hon Member of Parliament: Mpatamato.

Mr Mukanga: Mpatamato is even worse.

When you are talking about ensuring employment in the medical field; we looked at the Labour authorisation figures and they are still the same. You are telling the people of the Copperbelt that it will be status quo, nothing will change and they will continue to suffer. Nevertheless, we are asking for the ambulances, we need them. We also ask that the Health Centre in Chililabombwe be turned in to a hospital. We can not appreciate a situation where ninety-three thousand people are trying to access a health Center. It does not work like that. We are talking about serious issues and they need to be addressed.

When we talk about deforestation, on the Copperbelt, we had good very plantations but we have allowed the so-called-investors to come and cut down the trees at will without re-planting. It is important that we look these issues and ensure that we check them. If we are going to sell companies, let us ensure that we check what is happening.

On rural electrification, we have done so badly. There are a lot of areas that need electricity. The Kafubu block has a lot of farmers and schools but nothing is happening, there is no electricity and yet we continue to pay the rural electrification levy every time we make a payment.

It is important that people of Lufwanyama also benefit in one way or another.

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about sport. Yes, we appreciate that you are bringing Dag Hammarskjöeld Stadium back to life, but is it the only stadium that we want? Maybe, it might be just another promise. What we are waiting for is a reality. We want to see Dag Hammarskjöeld Stadium on the ground.

Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: We do not want to see like what has happened to Chifubu Stadium, which has become a damping site. We do not want that. That damping site started during the time of the MMD. What we are saying is that it is important that you take it upon yourselves as the Executive to ensure that the measures we discuss and that we have discussed in this budget are properly and efficiently implemented. Without implementing these issues, it will be very easy to be very easy for to fail. Even in 2011, we are coming back as PF on the Copperbelt.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: This time around, it will in a very big way. You should watch us. This time, we are not going to leave any stone unturned. We are going to make sure that we wipe out everything from the councillor to the top office.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: This time around, we are working flat out to ensure that work is done. If you will not perform, you will campaign for us and our campaign on the Copperbelt will be very easy.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Tetamashimba): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you for this opportunity. I would also wish to thank those who have debated before me except those who have been trying to mislead the nation. I am happy that many people are sleeping. Therefore, not many people are hearing.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, first and foremost, I want to tell my colleagues on your left that as at now, hon. Members of Parliament of have never written any document in terms of the budget or anything. Mostly, the Permanent Secretaries have been helping in all the programmes that we have been having in this country. It is therefore, unfortunate that hon. Members of Parliament can be the first to start attacking Permanent Secretaries and District Commissioners who have been doing such a wonderful thing in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, I want to comment on the mines. It is true that the mines have gone down. My brother-in-law who spoke before me is a former miner and I am sure he will agree with me that the mines were very good companies to work for. Having said that, we must be thinking which people who have made the mines to go down. You cannot blame the Government of President Mwanawasa. It is the leadership. Those in PF are the ones who came on this Floor of this House…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba:…and sold the mines.  
Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: We know it. It is not the ministers who are in the Front Bench and those in the second bench. No! Therefore, when we come to talk about…

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Chairperson, I stand on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Deputy Minster who just lost a serious point of order, which he raised some weeks ago, in order to mislead this House that the leadership in PF sold the mines when Luanshya Copper Mines was sold for U S $7.5 million not more than two years ago when President Mwanawasa was in power and still in power. Is he in order to allege that PF sold the mines when PF has never been in power? I need you serious ruling.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order! The Char was listening very carefully to the debate.  The debater did not say PF sold, but said leadership of PF.  I do not think that is a point of order to be raised. If they are any issues of debate, let the hon. Member debate.

Could the hon. Minister please continue?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, we have been told that…

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 2345 hours until 2400 hours.

The Chairperson: Order! Before, I call upon Hon. Tetamashimba to continue, let me appeal to you, all hon. Members that the effectiveness of your debate is not for speaking for fifteen minute because we still have a lot of business on our agenda. Can we be brief, precise and to the point so that we can move a little bit faster.

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, good morning.

Madam Chairperson, some of the debates that were in this House yesterday coming into this morning have not been very good. Before, I go to them, let me congratulate my Provincial Minister for North Western Province….

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: … who is a very hard working colleague of mine.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: I knew him when I was with his young brother, the late Hon. Dr Chipungu. He has done a lot for our province. He has also united us and there no more problems in our province.

Madam Chairperson, I agree that His Honour the Vice-President has made a very big impression on many people in this House. I therefore, like to encourage the State Counsel that this is the time that you must support him by standing on our party next time around.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: I also wish to assure you that President Mwanawasa will make sure that you are adopted.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: President Mwanawasa is in love with the people of the Eastern Province. You do not normally change, but for you to change, it shows that the man at the top pleased you and mostly, it was agriculture.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, I also want to go back because somebody said that Luanshya was sold for a song.

Yes! It is true that the MMD sold the mines, but what we must be looking at now is that there are individual players in all the political parties. It is the players who make things bad for this country. It is not the political parties because all the parties are good. When a player is playing badly in MMD, runs away to form his party and gets some hon. Members of Parliament, do not look at him as a hero. You should look at his back ground and see what he used to do when he was in other political parties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, I want to say that this Government especially, the people of North Western Province, we are very grateful to President Mwanawasa. We know the leaders who went and demolished Kansanshi Mine. We know them. Now, they are leaders in other political parties. It is President Mwanawasa who is making the economy of this country tick like what is happening in Solwezi.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: All the trucks of copper you see around going this side, come from Solwezi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: You must give him credit for that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Tetamashimba: Before, President, Mwanawasa came into being, the economy was very bad. I am surprised that we are forgetting.

Madam, at the time President took over, we were failing to go into Luanshya. We used to be stoned. I can remember my brother, the late Colonel Kafumukache, running away. President Mwanawasa found the situation the way it was and put money from Government into that mine. These were billions of Kwacha, but today, you cannot remember that. It is very unfortunate, my brother. I also want to appeal to my colleagues that I know how painful it is when you think that a lot of things are not happening in your provinces and yet it is the opposite. Madam Chairperson, if there are provinces that have benefited while in the Opposition it is Southern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mr Tetamashimba: If you go to the records you will find Southern Province. When you tell my brothers to take their animals for dipping they refuse.

Hon. UPND Members: Aah! Why?

Mr Tetamashimba: Even when you tell them to bring the animals to be injected they would refuse.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Even when they have 20,000 animals just to take five and buy medication for them, they would refuse. However, when the animals died this Government started restocking. When they restocked Southern Province were the beneficiaries. My brothers, please, give credit. I know my brother who is a chairperson for indigenous people …

Interruptions

Hon. UPND Member: What about boreholes!

Mr Tetamashimba: … bores are plenty in Southern Province. Some of my brothers who came to Central Province made this Government to go and sink boreholes where they were coming from.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: I know that the chairperson for the indigenous people is itching to protect the indigenous people. My brother I understand the way you fight for your people but sometimes you go to extremes.

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Minister, address the Chair.

Mr Tetamashimba: Zambia is not for any one single tribe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: When I was Member of Parliament for Solwezi West, I brought two Tongas to settle in my constituency. If you go at the junction of Mutanda/Mwinilunga and Zambezi, the shop you will find there is for a Tonga brother. Why because it is ‘One Zambia One Nation’. It is therefore wrong, Madam Chairperson …

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order

Interruptions

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Chairperson, is my traditional cousin who is debating so well in his usual eloquent manner in order to talk about extremeness when in actual fact in Namwala where I come from, I do not talk about two people or two Tongas or Luvales he might have brought because I have several thousands of Luvales, Lozis, people from Luapula Province and Kaonde and we have existed in Namwala in the spirit of ‘One Zambia One Nation’. Is he in order to insinuate …

Interruptions

Major Chizhyuka: … tribalism at the expense of a very good debate he is giving? I beg your ruling Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: The Hon. Deputy Minister may continue putting that concern into consideration.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: What I was implying was that …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Debate!

Mr Tetamashimba: What I want to say is that Members of Parliament must be last people to talk about colour and tribe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer, hammer Minister!

Mr Tetamashimba: Where I come from there is a lot of land for any tribe to go and settle there. That is what I was implying.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: That they can come and settle there why fight for land in Southern Province when there is a lot of land and good rains? Why stay in desert when there are good rains?

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: That is the point I am trying to raise.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Hammer!

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Madam Chairperson, I invite my brothers to go to that end.

I know that we were told that most of the areas benefited from electricity from Lake Kariba, and yet some people were displaced but to insinuate that the whole Zambia has been enjoying because of electricity from Lake Kariba that is not correct for North-Western Province. President Mwanawasa only started electricity into that province during his tenure of office.

Hon. Government Members: They were running on diesel! Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Before that there was nothing. What we must know is that Zambia is one country. When we have the mines they must be able to benefit the other provinces. With good land in Northern and Luapula provinces and part of the Copperbelt, any Zambian can go and settle in that land. So those who feel that they are staying mountainous areas, …

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: … including those from the east, there is good land where we come from.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: I also want to say that during this sitting of Parliament we witnessed situations were lack of democracy in some political parties. I agree with the Minister of Local Government and Housing that politics and civil duties for Members of Parliament and councillors should not be disturbed. If we are going to start victimising Members of Parliament who want development in their constituencies, by going to ministers, that is not right. If councillors who are supposed to do civic duties of receiving heads of states will end up being punished, that is not good.

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order!

Hon. Government Members: No!

Mr Tetamashimba: I heard this afternoon that some councillors in Chipata were about to be suspended. As MMD, we are not going to suspend the Mayor in Chipata and another one that was mentioned for doing any civic duties because those are duties for which they were elected.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: And we hope that all the political parties will do what they were insinuating themselves because they brought up to say MMD wants to victimise people. We are not going to punish any of our councillors who are performing their civic duties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: On the question of civic duties, we are going to defend our councillors.

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order!

Hon. Government Members: Iwe!

Mr Tetamashimba: So, I wish to inform the hon. Members …

The Chairperson: Hon. Deputy Minister, debate through the Chair.

Mr Tetamashimba: So, we are not going to victimise those councillors or mayors in Chipata or anywhere for doing their civic duties. We are going to leave them to do their functions so that we can proceed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: Having said that, I wish to thank you for the time you have given you and I want to promise you that Bottom Road for the first time has little amount of money. At least we are interested in seeing your road going to Choma my brother, you will not go back without the road reaching Choma and Monze we are going to do the tarring before you leave this House so that you come back again.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: The people, where the honourable national secretary comes from, be advised that we are going do something about it. You warned us. Last time we were told that if do not do the road we are not going to vote for you.

The Chairperson: Speak through the Chair! Through the Chair!

Mr Tetamashimba: We are going to do that.

Hon. Government Member: Even Kamwala!

Mr Tetamashimba: You must give us credit. We now have a by-past which many people do not know. If you are coming from the Copperbelt you can use a by-past, a very good road which has been made. I want to promise the House that my boss in the Ministry of Works and Supply has the interest to carry on the mandate he has been given by President Mwanawasa.

Mr Simbao: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba: That is why for the first time President Mwanawasa has said that hon. Members must be told about development by the Permanent Secretaries and Ministers and we are grateful because that is what it should be. We appeal to our Members to make sure that you are encouraged to come to the offices of Permanent Secretaries. You should not run away from Permanent Secretaries because if you do, you will find that there is no development in your constituencies…

Mr Lubinda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Tetamashimba: Not because they do not want to help you but because you are running away.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamir (Chitambo): Madam Chairperson, I stand to support the allocation on this Vote. They say that a beggar is not a chooser but we would have appreciated if the allocation for the province had increased.

Madam Chairperson, in my constituency which is mainly a peasant farming area, there is a saying in Lala that ‘elyo aisa Mwanawasa imikalile yesu naitampa ukuchinja’ …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamir: This means that since Mwanawasa came, our livelihood has begun to change for the better.

Mr Kambwili: Bakakutamfya ku Chitambo iwe!

The Chairperson: Order! Will the hon. Member stop shouting across the Floor of the House.

Mr Hamir: You are welcome to Chitambo to listen from them. Madam Chairperson, the Government has done a lot in Serenje District, the hospital has been renovated with a new theatre and a mortuary. We are also luck that we have the Nansanga project and we are inviting hon. Members to come and invest in Serenje at the Nansanga project. We are also excited with the agriculture department and we hope that the hon. Minister will work hard this year. We also hope that we will get electricity under the rural electrification project. We should understand and bear in mind that our Ministers were recently appointed and for Gods sake we should give them chance to adjust and within two years we can start blaming them.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamir: We should not expect them to perform miracles in a short time. Madam Chairperson, nobody is perfect, charity begins at home and so we need our councils to have the capacity to construct our roads. We do not want contractors from cities, we want our councils to be empowered as a way of job creation.

Madam Chairperson, the feeder roads need grading. The road leading to Chitambo Hospital is agony for the patients. The hospital needs staff and renovations. The market in Chitambo is not yet complete and so we are asking the Minister to work hard. We also wish the Minister for Central Province well.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamir: Madam Chairperson, we are asking the hon. Minister to please be checking physically on the implementers. You are being blamed here because what the implementers are doing there is wrong and so it is important that you continuously check on implementers. The district office and the office of the president must be expanded so that those who are doing wrong can have some fear.

Madam Chairperson, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Chairperson: Thank you very much for that brief and precise debate.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Madam Chairperson, I do not wish to dilute the contributions to the debate by my colleague from the Copperbelt. But first and foremost I would like to commend the Minister for the Copperbelt Province for not relenting in trying to unite us and especially on the good spirit that he has brought among the Members of Parliament from the Copperbelt. Madam Chairperson. I do not want to forget to send a message of condolences to the Minister of Lusaka Province (Mr Shawa) over the loss of his daughter.

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Mukanga brought up a lot of issues affecting the Copperbelt and as I have earlier said, I do not really want to dilute that wonderful debate.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to comment on one or two issues and one of them is to do with land. We have a problem on the Copperbelt when it comes to acquiring land. Plots are not easily acquired. The councils have become so corrupt that only very few people can walk into a council and apply for land and get it easily.

Madam Chairperson, I know we have an able hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing and we would want her to look into this problem. I would like to mention the suffering of our people when it comes to acquiring health services. The hospitals on the Copperbelt are in a mess. When we talk about the Kitwe Central Hospital within my constituency, you will discover that we have very few doctors and nurses. A few weeks ago when I was in Kitwe, I discovered that the Kitwe Central Hospital had been running for two months without an X-ray. Right now, I do not even know whether that X-ray has been repaired.

Madam Chairperson, how do you expect patients to get the best service from such an institution? Madam Chairperson, this Government has worked hard to get rid of queues in shops and bus stations but these have been transferred to hospitals. When you go to the low cost, you will discover that there is probably over 100 people queuing very early in the morning. What we want is to remove this slavery thing of having low and high cost, what we want is a system that will cater for our people whether poor or rich. What is happening in these institutions, you discover that the poor are not being looked after properly and are not being cared for. Even when they are admitted in hospitals go and see where they are sleeping. There are no medicines in these institutions.

I want to come to the hon. Minster of Mines and Mineral Development. I know my brother spoke about royalties. A few days ago, I was trying my level best to see how we could be able to play around with the mineral royalty percentage that we are receiving as a country. I am trying to emphasise on that one, hon. Minister, that we need a share on the Copperbelt. We need shares from the royalties that will be collected. You would want to make sure that is used to rehabilitate and bring back our townships to the state they were in when there were being run by ZCCM.

Mr Chimbaka: Hammer!

Mr Mwenya: Madam Chairperson, I would like again to touch on another sensitive issue and that has to do with the way we are looking after the police officers. In Kitwe, we have Mindolo Police Station. I have been a resident of Kitwe and at this Mindolo Police Station we have had officers who have stayed at this police station for over 15 years and they have been using pit latrines in a police camp. When you see their wives they foot on so much body, as if they are body builders because of travelling long distances to fetch water and the husbands are now complaining.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Mwenya: This is a police camp. In Kitwe, we have the oldest township, Buchi Kamitondo. This area has never seen a water boom toilet over 45 years. The people are now complaining because they have finished all the space around their houses to dig pit latrines. Now, they do not even know where to dig.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Laughter

Mr Mwenya: Madam Chairperson, when you look at the state of our streets and roads in the mining area despite contributing so much in terms of copper, all we are seeing is development in Lusaka. We want for the first time to start seeing development coming up on the Copperbelt. Our people were cheated that with the incoming of these investors we were going to see development, better roads, better health care and we are going to have job creation, but what is happening today is that our people are being enslaved. The investors who have come do not want to have any responsibility to do with these Zambian workers. What they have done is they have contracted contractors who have been given the responsibility of contracting our people and our people now are receiving slave wages. All the miners who are mining copper under ground, there is no single worker employed directly by Mopani, there all employed by contractors.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Mwenya: What we want is to have a system that is going to protect our people, a system from this Government to put pressure on these investors to make sure that our people are being given a survival wage a wage that they can take home so that their wives can be able to say, yes, we are proud our husbands are working. We can never solve the problem of people drinking kachasu as long as we do not give them a surviving wage.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: I can assure you, that you shall never change the status quo on the Copperbelt as long as this Government does not change its approach towards the Copperbelt. These days, when you go to Ndola Central Hospital the mortuary is filled with rats. People have to go with water to wash their dead, and yet, we are saying this Government has been performing and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is saying there is stability in the nation and economic growth in the country, when we are not able to see it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Mwenya: We have this issue of First Quantum. It has come and the hon. Minister of Mines and Mineral Development has been very quiet. We have been to see him and we do not seem to say anything at all, and yet, the policy of this Government is to empower Zambians and small-scale business men to grow. Now, the coming in of this Quantum, it means these small companies shall never enjoy. There is no way you can take small business men and make them to compete at the same level at international level.

Hon. Opposition Member: Lila, mwana, lila.

Mr Mwenya: No, this cannot happen at all. This Government ought to be serious.

Hon. Opposition Member: Mayo.

Mr Mwenya: We do not want, 2 years later, you come and bring an issue here to say we do not know what happened we have to protect our people. We have been cheated over this development agreement which have affected our people. Now, we have not benefited anything from the mines. This time we are saying, we are going to allow such a thing to happen.

Hon. Opposition members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: I will be the first person to lead our people on the Copperbelt if this year is going to end without realising anything from the royalties. I will go there on the Copperbelt and ask the people to rise against this Government.

Madam Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

The Chairperson: Order! Withdraw that. That would be unconstitutional.

Mr Mwenya: I withdraw that, but I will ask our people to protest against this Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Madam Chairperson, the hon. Minister of Education when he presented his Policy Statement, the other day, I was very impressed because he touched on all areas affecting the education sector, but what I would want to see is the reality and implementation. We want to see improvement in the working conditions of the teachers. Teachers also need to start acquiring, accessing loans to build their own homes because this Government has failed to provide accommodation for them. We want the Ministry of Education to create more space. We want more children to be able to access Grade 9 and 12 and go to universities.

Madam Chairperson, I know, yes, building stadia is very important. I think the back bone of any nation is a sound education. Once a nation is educated then you know that this is a vibrant economically stable nation.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to see this Government build more universities in this country. I would like to see a university being constructed in Livingstone and another one in Lusaka, Copperbelt, Northern Province and Luapula.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member’s time has expired.

The Minister for Lusaka Province (Mr Shawa): Madam Chairperson, in the first place, I would like to thank all those that have debated on this Vote and I would also like to thank the Vice-President and Leader of Government business in this House for having given a policy statement on our behalf.

Madam, we have a challenge as Lusaka Province in monitoring, co-ordination, implementation of projects and evaluation, but at the same time, to keep law and order. I will dwell later on those that debated, especially, on Lusaka Province. Suffice to mention that as Lusaka Province, we would like to deliver equitable and balanced development in our four districts, that is, Kafue, Lusaka, Chongwe and Luangwa.

Madam Chairperson, we are only saddened that recently was adversely affected and it was not spared by the floods that affected the nation. A lot of infrastructure including roads and bridges were affected in many areas and also the floods affected food security. In any case, there has been nasty improvement in terms of development in infrastructure. Offices have been built. Houses, roads, bridges and colts have been constructed and completed. If people feel that these have not been completed, I will be able to take you round if you are so willing. We have seen excellent progress and positive results in health, education and agriculture.

Madam, in Lusaka Province, there is potential in tourism and mining. Therefore, we would like to appeal that the explorations continue because other mines have already started operating.

Madam Chairperson, we have a challenge right now in Lusaka Province and we would like to address the issue of environmental degradation with regard to charcoal burning. We would like to see that deforestation is addressed as quickly as possible otherwise we will have a desert and all of us will be affected. In this regard, we have started programmes of, for example, tree planting and bee keeping. A lot of people, especially in Chongwe area have been trained in bee keeping and also to ensure that they know how to use products from that project.

Madam, with regard to issues of youths, we only have two institutions. These are Kalingalinga and Chiota which need to empower the youths. These youths who are trained and these institutions are provided with materials to sustain their progress after their courses.

Madam Chairperson, in the area of street kids, we continue as Lusaka Province to work with Zambia National Service and take some of these for training in various skills.

Madam, as regards water, it is the policy of this Government, and indeed, Lusaka Province that we provide clean, safe and adequate water to our people. In this regard, boreholes in many areas have been sunk and also dams have been constructed. Where some dams were silted, these have also been de-silted. We would like to go into irrigation especially that the New Deal Administration has provided K37 billion towards irrigation and Lusaka Province would like to benefit from that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa: I would like to thank Hon. Mtonga, hon. Member of Parliament for Kanyama. I thank him for his soothing and encouraging words over the bereavement that we had in my family. I believe that you will also not doubt my positive attention to my duties. In normal circumstances, after such bereavement, I would have probably gone on fourteen days Compassionate Leave, but I am here working. This simply indicates that I have love and a heart to national duties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa: I would like to thank all the hon. Members of Parliament for their support spiritually, morally and materially. I am very grateful on behalf of my family.

Madam Chairperson, indeed, as an office, we will remain very open. We want to work in consultation with you as w have already started and I am very grateful that you have mentioned about this. We need peace, unity and love so that we develop our province.

Madam, we need to be accountable, transparent and inclusive. That is why we will not leave you behind in as far as development of the province is concerned. I wish to state that you should continue to visit to our offices. You should not wait to be invited for meetings. This is very important because at times, we wait until we are called for meetings.

On the issue of cholera, we have done quite a lot. In my previous debate, I mentioned what we have doing in Lusaka. Working with the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unity, chlorine is being provided in most of the areas which have been affected by cholera. Last time I mentioned that in the rural areas, Chongwe, Kafue and Luangwa did not have cholera cases, but only in Lusaka. All measures are being taken, and we are working together with the Ministry of Health to ensure that we ameliorate the sufferings of our people with regard to cholera.

As Lusaka Province administration, we are working with Lusaka City Council very seriously and we would like to clean Lusaka. Right now, we have issued an instruction that all business houses must be painted and we have given them a deadline. Failure to that, we will take drastic measures.

Hon Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa: We are already cleaning and I am very proud of the corporate world and other ministries that have joined to improve and clean Lusaka vis a vis the planting of grass and flowers. We would like Lusaka to attain the status of a growing city.

Madam Chairperson, there is peace and tranquility in Lusaka now and I would like to commend the Ministry of Home Affairs for a commendable job. I would like to commend the Inspector General of Police, Mr Mateo, and Mr Wazakaza Ng’uni for doing a wonderful job. The crime rate has drastically gone down. This is what we are doing. The law will visit those people who are bringing havoc.

I wish to appeal to all hon. Members of Parliament and all the people to cooperate with the police. Where you have people of suspicious predisposition, please do not hesitate to report immediately to the police nearest to you.

Madam Chairperson, Mr Lubinda, is a very good debater. I thank him for his wonderful words, but some of the questions he was raising were answers. I want to mention here that if you had attended some of the meetings that my office called, you would have been cleared on some of the issues you raised…

Hon. Government Member: Forget abut him.

Mr Shawa: …and so I want to encourage you that we must continue to work together in as far as waste management is concerned. The Vice-President recently commissioned a project in Chingwere and we were together at that function with the hon. Jean Kapata. That facility is a state of the art sponsored by Danish International Development Aid (DANIDA) and so we are working to clean the city.

With regard to energy, we have a priority now to look at Luangwa. This is the only district in my province which is not connected to the main grid. Kafue, Chongwe and Lusaka are all benefiting from the electricity from the main grid and we are working very hard together with the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development that Luangwa should be attended too. As we connect Luangwa, most of the areas along the way in Rufunsa, will also be connected to the main grid.

In education, my province has done a lot, Madam Chairperson, to supplement the Ministry of Education. We have done a lot in rehabilitation of some schools and also procurement of desks, computers, stoves and other school requisites. We have contributed positively.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Tsumo.

Mr Muntanga crossed the Floor and sat between Hon. Namugala and Hon. Cifire.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, I will not concentrate on that, but that is a sign of eating well.

Laughter

Mr Shawa: When you sit on the chair, you can display people and if people are eating well and growing like that, we must commend the New Deal Administration.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Members: Tsumo.

Mr Shawa: With these few remarks, I would like to say thank you very much for all the hon. Members who have contributed. We would like the budget to be supported.

Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Provincial Minister of Copperbelt Province (Mr Mbulakulima): Thank you, Madam Chairperson.

In the first place, I would like to acknowledge the congratulations from Hon. Mukanga and Hon. Mwenya on my appointment.

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Mukanga mentioned that issues of the Copperbelt are very close to his heart. I must also admit, as I said in my maiden speech, that having born in Mufulira, brought up in Kitwe, currently working in Ndola and always going to Chililabombwe Konkola Stadium to watch great Zambia, Copperbelt is very close to my heart. I must also thank Hon. Mukanga. I have come to know him as one person who likes discussing issues and not personalities and that is the way it is supposed to be.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: I must mention here that Copperbelt is a metropolitan province. Copperbelt is the most urbanised province in this country. It is important that we have Members of Parliament who are in intelligentsias. In my maiden speech, I made it very clear that in my administration, there is no space for confrontation. An urbanised province like Copperbelt, we need people who are going to think and do the right thing. I am happy that we are slowly building that team.

Hon. Mukanga raised a lot of issues concerning copper and the companies that are coming on the Copperbelt. Copperbelt is no longer the way it used to be and people of the Copperbelt want reality, title deeds and Members of Parliament. I must say that I think it is also important to give credit where it is due. This Government is on the right path. Not long ago, you all know that the mines were not operating the way they are doing today. Most of the mines were actually flooded with water, but during this session today, we have agreed why we should raise the royalty tax because we have all seen that the mines are actually operating effectively. We all agree that they are making profits. We cannot contradict ourselves by saying the mines are no longer the way they used to be. However, we also need to change that the days of Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) days are gone. Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) and Mopani Mine must also have their own identity.

I think, we should all agree is that there is prosperity on the Copperbelt. I am glad that Chingola and Chililabombwe have taken the initiative where they have engaged KCM in regard to construction and repair of roads in the townships. This is the way the investors are supposed to pay back. It is up to us to engage them in dialogue and I want to believe that they will respond.

I also want to respond that the role of hon. Members can not be doubted. I want to build a team on the Copperbelt and so I call upon you that we come together and work as a team. The programmes for 2007 are very aggressive. We talked about the rural electrification, sinking of bore-holes and rehabilitation of hospitals and schools. These are the projects that we are going to work on. Copperbelt is destined for prosperity.

The issue of agriculture is on the right course. We have good weather. Rains have been falling on the Copperbelt. I want to believe that we can move away from copper and make Copperbelt the main agriculture province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Hon. Mwenya raised a lot of issues, such as, the land acquiring difficulty and royalties. My Government is attending to all these issues. Where I do not agree with Hon. Mukanga and Mwenya is on the strength of PF. I want to assure them that come 2011, MMD will triumph.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: If we happen to have any by-election during this period, I can assure them that MMD is going to succeed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Madam Chairperson, I want to say to my colleagues who have spoken and indeed the silent majority that the province has been allocated less than what is expected because we all know that money is a scarce resource and indeed a limiting factor in the preparation of the budget. It is also important that we make it very clear.

If you recall when I debated on the issue of Ministry of Justice about the balancing act where everything or one political party was number one every time and listening to the debate, all hon. Members who stood to contribute all said that the money allocated to Ministry of Home Affairs, Ministry of Community Development and Social Services and Office of the Auditor-General were not enough However, the limiting factor in the preparation is money and this is not personal, corporate or national. That is why today we are talking about K12 trillion as a national budget and not K20 trillion, K30 trillion, K50 trillion or K200 trillion because money is a limiting factor in this regard.

I want to believe that as a province, we will endeavor to serious undertake the planned activities. The province is ready to take up the challenge of creating wealth and employment. Its prosperity in agriculture has a comparative advantage due to good weather, water resource and labour force. Given such advantages, the province has the potential to grow crops and rear livestock all year round. The province has a regular market within and outside the province as well as internationally.

Madam Chairperson, finally, I want to say that this Government has provided an enabling environment from which the Copperbelt has definitely benefited. In the recent past, the province has seen the mushrooming of a number of new industries. The new smelter at Mopani Copper Mines in Mufulira which will increase smelting capacity to one million metric tons, the opening of a Tata Zambia plant in Ndola and Zambezi Portland Cement Company, the construction of a smelter at Chambeshi and many more are a sign that the economy is definitely growing. I want to call upon my fellow hon. Members of Parliament, especially those from the Copperbelt, to come forward and build the province.

Madam Chairperson, I was warned and reminded by the wise men from the east that my speech must be as short as a mini-skirt but brief enough to cover the salient subjects. It is my sincere hope that I have covered enough and I, therefore, propose that you support the budget for the Copperbelt.

I thank you.

The Minister for Central Province (Mr Chisanga): To start with, I would like to thank all the hon. Members of Parliament for supporting the budget…

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Chisanga:…for Central province, especially the hon. Members from my province. I have taken note of all that has been said by Hon. Hamir. I want to tell the House that as was the case in the previous year, the development efforts this year will continue to address poverty reduction in vulnerable communities. In this vein, every effort will be made towards enhancing the efficiency of the program implementation at district level. I, therefore, implore the hon. Members of Parliament in this House to participate in the process of development in order to ensure attainment of our provincial vision in line with the national Vision 2030. This will ultimately impact positively on the standard of living of the people.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: That was brief and precise.

The Minister for Northern Province (Mr Chibombamilimo): Madam Speaker…

Laughter

Mr Chibombamilimo: Madam Chairperson, I stand to say a few words on the estimates of revenue and expenditure for Northern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: I want to say that my debate as a summariser may be different from what others have said and are going to say. I know that I am a bearer of a message from the people of Northern Province. Therefore, I do not want to leave any stone unturned and may not talk about most of the good things that the MMD New Deal administration has done but I want to talk about the problems that the province is facing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: I have said that I am messenger.

Interruptions 

The Chairperson: Order! Speak as a hon. minister.

 Mr Chibombamilimo: Hon. Chibamba said Northern Province has been the least fund for about 15-16 years and I want to agree with him that this is true. I want to also say that last year, most of the projects were funded but funds were not released.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Can you keep quiet. I am saying that most of the projects were funded but the sad part is that funds were not released and I hope that this year funds will be released so that most of the projects in the province should be done.

I also want to say that most of the roads in the province have actually been damaged because of heavy rains. I just hope that the Ministry of Works and Supply will do something so that the roads are worked on, especially that we are expecting a bumper harvest in terms of maize in Northern Province.

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Minister, debate as a hon. minister. If you are not yet ready, we will give you another opportunity.

Mr Chibombamilimo: I want to talk about the roads which have been extensively damaged. Bridges have also been washed away. I want to also mention that the Zambia Telecommunications (Zamtel) in Northern Province should improve the Internet services in all districts. In terms of cellular phones, we have no complaint.

Last year in 2005, the Zambia National Tourist Board launched the Northern Circuit, it is our sincere hope, therefore, as a province that more money will be released this year to open up tourist sites in Northern Province where we have six major waterfalls. One of which is the highly spectacular Lumangwe Water Falls nick-named the mini Victoria.

A number of schools also collapsed as a result of heavy rains and some roofs have been blown off especially in Mpulungu, Mpika, Kasama, Mporokoso, Chilubi and Isoka. I hope that the money will be found so that all these repairs

I also want to mention that there has not been allocation of funds for the Mbesuma Bridge which was funded last year.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order! I think that the Chair will guide the Hon. Deputy Minister. For now, you sit down until you prepare something that you are doing as a Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

The Chairperson: Before the Hon. Minister for Western Province stands I would like to dispense some advice.  Hon. Ministers, you are supposed to come with a written statement. You are allowed to read a statement of what your Government is doing and intends doing. You have to give answers to the hon. Members concerned.

The Minister for Western Province (Mr Mufalali): Thank you Madam Chair for giving me this opportunity to outline briefly the 2007 Budget for the Western Province. Let me thank also hon. Members who have talked about the Budget for the Western Province in particular.

Madam Chair, Lewanika Hospital Pharmacy was gutted by fire, but I am happy to report that we are now rehabilitating this pharmacy.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Mufalali: Madam Speaker, the Shangombo District Hospital is about to be completed.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Mufalali: This Government, Madam Chair, is considering building schools in my province. As you are aware

interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Continue.

Mr Mufalali: As you are aware Madam Chair, the Minister of Education, in his speech, has reiterated that Western Province will be given one high school for girls in Mongu.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear.

The Chairperson: Order! Do not listen to the noise speak to the Chair.

Mr Mufalali: I am glad with the programmes of Government in my province on roads such as the Kaoma Kasempa Road, the Luampa-Machila Road, the Kaoma-Lukulu Road, the Limulunga-Mongu Road, Mongu-Senanga Road and the famous Mongu-Kalabo Road.

Hon. Member: Tell them, tell them.

Mr Mufalali: Madam Chair, we are confident that the Senanga –Sesheke Road will be constructed in stage two off course building a bridge at Mbeta Island.

I am happy Madam Chair with the current animal disease control the Government is undertaking in my province. A cordon line has been built on the western border of our province.

Madam Chair, this year, heavy rains have resulted in heavy floods on the Barotse Plains which have damaged crops, livestock and infrastructure. Let me assure this august House that this Government will make sure that no one will starve and that the entire damaged infrastructure will be repaired.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

Mr Mufalali: To answer my sister on the question she raised

interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Can the Chair reign?

Mr Mufalali: Madam Chairperson, she raised a question on why the roads are not appearing in the 2007 Budget for Western Province

Hon. Members: Hear, hear

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mufalali:  This year, all programmes under PRP have been taken over by the Ministry and that is why they are not appearing in our Provincial Budget.

Therefore, Madam Chairperson, I end here.

Laughter

Hon. Members: Hear, hear

The Minister for Eastern Province (Mr Nkhata): Thank you Madam Chair. I wish to thank all the hon. Members that have debated on the Budget for Eastern Province. 
The Government will ensure that most of the Members’ concerns are addressed amicably.

Madam Chair, allow me to say something on agriculture as everyone of us is aware that the backbone of the Eastern Province is agriculture. We wish to thank and commend the Government for giving us agriculture inputs in good time. Due to this timely distribution of farming inputs, the people of the Eastern Province will have enough food and surplus for sale from the 2006-2007 farming season. The Government should be commended.

I am aware that the state of our roads in Eastern Province is not very good. However, it is the wish of my Government that the resources will be made available to repair most of our roads in the province.

I am happy to mention, Madam Chair that my Government has made available twenty-three million Euros for the resurfacing of the Great East Road from Nyimba to Mwami Boarder. The Chipata Lundazi Road requires serious maintenance and my Government has allocated K2 billion to continue with the repairs of this road.

I am happy to mention also to this august House that my Government as allocated funds for the bridge construction on the Luangwa River in Chama District on the Chama-Matumbo Road. I know after the Budget, the Government will be able to release this money so that the bridge construction can commence.  

I would like to mention also that in Eastern Province we will not spare those of our brothers and sisters doing shoddy work during the construction of roads and buildings. We will make sure as Government that we supervise the works and some of those who will not be doing a correct job will have their contracts terminated.

Hon. Members: Quality!

Mr Nkhata: Allow me to say something on the health sector. Eastern Province has been privileged by the New Deal Administration under the leadership of His Excellency, the President, Levy Patrick Mwanawasa with the provision of K1.7 billion for the construction a new modern hospital in Chadiza District.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Therefore, we are looking forward to the completion of this project that has already commenced in the province. We are happy that an addition block at Nyimba Hospital has been constructed to conduct the X-rays. The same has been done for Lundazi on Lumenzi Mission Hospitals.

Madam Chairperson, let me say something on the water provision. The Government has sourced for some funds to drill about 900 new boreholes under Phase III which will commence this year after the finalisation of the financial agreement between the Government of the Republic of Zambia and the Germany Government. The 900 new water points will be distributed evenly throughout the province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: With regard to energy, Zambia is not only importing power from Malawi, it is also exporting power to other countries. It is not a new thing that we are importing power from Malawi because on the other hand the same Government is exporting power to other countries like Tanzania, Namibia and Botswana. If we import power from Malawi it is just like it is on exchange basis. They are our good neighbours. Therefore, we need to get power which is closer to us to help the people of Lundazi and other places. Of course, there are concerns like the ones raised by Hon. Chifumu Banda that in case we have problems with our neighbours, but we are doing everything possible so that we maintain our good relationship. However, that should not worry us because Zambians are good people.

In Eastern Province, we have the Chiwoko Training Camp under the Zambia National Service (ZNS) where we are taking our street kids for skills training. This project has been going on well. The first bunch of children that were trained at that place has finished and we hope to continue with the new team that has just come to Chiwoko Training Camp for our youths. This would not make us fail and we will continue.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to say something on Telecommunications. I think in this country, we are doing well because most of these new companies that have come like Celtel and MTN are all over in the province. They are even found in the remotest parts of our province especially as we heard towards Chama. We are mobile. So, communications is going on well in this province and believe that the few remaining areas like Msoro where people have not been connected will be connected soon since that is not a problem any more.

Mr Kambwili: Bakala fukama pakulanda naba pongoshi pa Cell phone

Mr Nkhata: Regarding the Chipata-Mchinji rail, we are very happy hon. Minister of Transport and Communications for making sure that the project is completed. We are happy and people are geared because the project is on course and we hope and believe that this year, according to the plan, this will finish.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Hon. V. Mwale raised concerns regarding the mines. I think we are in the pipeline, especially, in Petauke where mineral deposits of copper have been found. We believe that the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development will not just leave us like that, but something is going to be done so that this mine will soon open. We have hope because this Government is a working Government and will not fail to open this mine in Eastern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkhata: Madam Chairperson, the Government is determined to work hand in hand with the people in addressing those socio-economic problems. There is a clear manifestation of some improved activities taking place in the province which will continue to be kept course.

With these few remarks, I thank you.

The Minister for Luapula Province (Mr Chinyanta): I thank you, Madam Chairperson, for giving this opportunity to conclude the debate on the Vote for Luapula Province.

First of all, I would like to acknowledge the compliments that came from the Members of Parliament from Luapula Province. I feel very much encouraged and I would like to assure you that I will provide leadership that will bring development to our area so that at the end of the 5 years, we will make a difference in that area.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Luapula Province has a population of over 800,000 people and 80 per cent of that is poor. As a result, we have focused most of our programmes towards poverty reduction.

In that line, 60 per cent of our programmes in terms of the budget ceiling for our province has moved into that area. We have targeted areas that will bring better impact to our people so that the standard of living in Luapula Province can be uplifted.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Indeed, we would like to introduce new programmes in key economic areas that would bring growth to this province so that our people can start appreciating what the Government is doing for them.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Especially, looking at the areas which will tap the abundant natural resources that are found in our province such as the fishing industry, forestry and even mining which has stated coming up slowly.

Madam Chairperson, through the line ministries, my province will try to address the issues of health, education and agriculture. I would like to comment on the performance of the province, in 2006, I must say that the general performance of our province was satisfactory in that out of the budgeted amount for the province, 80 per cent of that was released. I would like to commend the Government for that. It is my prayer that even this year we are going to do even better than that. As a province, we opened up new areas in Matanda and Mansa resettlement areas where we have already allowed people to start cultivating. This is a way of encouraging people to get involved more into agriculture and diversify from what has been our main occupation in that area which has been fishing.

The out look for 2007 is that we will continue to do more in health and significant strides have been made in this area to provide quality health care to our people. We intend to construct a number of rural health centres and houses for our health workers so that they can become encouraged and see that the Government has actually been thinking for them. As a province, we will continue with the programme of HIV/AIDS which we cannot ignore as a province.

In order to combat poverty which I referred to at the beginning, we would like to focus our attention on agriculture. I am happy to report that the province has continued to make significant drops in terms of the number of crops that we are producing in our area. We hope to benefit more even this year from the Fertiliser Support Programme which I believe is a very good programme for this country. We also hope to improve on our marketing programme for our crops in the province.

Madam Chairperson, I am sure the Government has shown a lot of commitments in this area. We will address some of the concerns that were brought up by the hon. Members in this House. Looking at the Luena project, I want to assure you that I will put in all my effort to ensure that this project is not just on the drawing board but something that should start to bring tangible results to our people.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Madam, I want to mention that we will continue to deliver services to our people in as far as education is concerned. The challenge in this area is that we need to put a lot of infrastructure. Government has shown commitment to do more in this area. I am happy to report that three high schools will be constructed this year in Nerenge, Mwense and Chienge. This is a commendable job.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Madam, the issue of road infrastructure was meant to be a challenge in our province. My appeal is that whatever allocation of money given to us should be put to good use. I want to call upon the hon. Members of this House, especially those from Luapula to take keen interest in this area so that we make good use of whatever has been given to us.

Hon. Government Members: hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: The people of Luapula are very expectant to see the road works in this province start, especially, the Chembe Bridge, which I am happy to report that the Government has started working on it. I am very sure that even the other areas that were raised on this Floor will actually be attended to like the Kashikishi/Lunchinda Road.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta:  Madam Chairperson, we also look forward to improve on our infrastructure in this area. As the province, we are embarking on working on our infrastructure by improving facilities on a Mansa Airdrome by building a control tour and cleaning the runways. This, I believe will help some of the tourists come to Luapula.

Madam Chairperson, in terms of mining, there is an increase in activities in small scale mining in Luapula, especially, in Chienge. I want to take this challenge to urge the Ministry of Mines and Minerals to start encouraging the large scale miners to also look at Luapula although they have already opened one in North Western Province.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Madam Chairperson, the water sector is still worrisome in my province. My people are failing to access mineral water despite the abundant water in that area. I am sure that this Budget has provided boreholes for Luapula Province. I want to indicate that one of our co-operating partners (JICA) has already started drilling some boreholes in some parts of Luapula Province.

Madam Chairperson, through this Budget, we will continue to encourage and support many other programmes such as bee keeping, canal maintenance and forestry so that our people can actually appreciate what we are doing for them in our province.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, I would like to submit that we have a challenge in our province. I want to ensure that we live up to what we are facing through this Budget which we are passing this morning. I therefore, urge hon. Members of this House to support this vote for Luapula Province.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister for North-Western Province (Mr Chipungu): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to wind up the debate on the Budget for North-Western Province, the sleeping giant.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: Madam, I wish to thank His Excellency the President, Mr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for sending me to work in North-Western Province. In fact, this is my home area and province.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Can we please lower our voices. The Chair cannot hear properly.

Mr Chipungu: Madam Chairperson, before I went to North-Western Province, I was not very sure about development there. To the contrary of what had been said by the previous speakers in terms of development in North-Western Province, I now want to report to this House that it is one of the provinces that are well developed.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank all hon. Members for the support they have given to this Budget. May I also thank the Permanent Secretary, his members of staff and all the provincial heads for coming up with a very good Budget. I would also thank them for indeed, working very hard for the development of the province.

Madam Chairperson, I also wish to thank the hon. Members from North-Western Province for the support, especially, Teta,…

Mr Tetamashimba: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: … given to me so far. I am enjoying the relationship. May I now pay tribute to the speakers on this vote. Hon. Kakoma has made a list of complaints, amongst them, poor roads and so on. I will be able to answer this in the due course. I wish to commend my brother, Hon. Tetamashimba in this House for educating me so well. It is very true that I got all his words.

Hon. Government Members: We mean well!

Mr Chipungu: Madam Chairperson, this time around, North-Western Province has done very well under this New Administration. I want to give you some of the examples about the development that is taking place. For instance in Solwezi, we are constructing a modern market, renovating the Solwezi Stadium and we are maintaining all the roads in the township. In all the districts, the roads are being worked on. We are renovating and constructing the schools and the health centres. We are doing the maintenance of the roads, for instance, the M8 road, Manyinga/Mwinilunga Road, Solwezi/Kipushi Road and a number of feeder roads.

Madam Chairperson, the province is also doing very well in mining. I want to talk about the Kansanshi and Lumwana Mines. Recently, there is a mine that has come up in Chief Mushima’s place and many other places in Zambia. We have through out the districts boreholes and water wells being drilled. We have also done the Bill of Quantity for a culture village and very shortly, it will be under construction. We also have a number of youth skills training centres under the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development. We have one in Solwezi, Mufumbwe and so on.

Madam Chairperson, with regards to telecommunications, the whole province is connected to Zamtel, Celtel and MTN. What else can people want?

Interruptions

Mr Chipungu: Madam Chairperson, I am happy to say that North Western Province has potential in tourism. Zambia National Tourist Board have agreed to come and set up an office in order to tap the potential in tourism.

Madam Chairperson, I want to assure the House that this listening Government is addressing all the concerns that have been raised, including the re-construction of the infrastructure that was destroyed after the floods. Therefore I would like to invite all Members of Parliament from North-Western Province to work as a team. Be free to approach my office or the office of the Permanent secretary to see the projects that are taking place in your Constituency.

Hon Members of Parliament must take advantage to visit their constituencies when they hear that the Head of State, a Minister or any other VIP is visiting their constituencies.

Hon Members of Parliament: Hear, hear!

Mr Chipungu: It is much easier for them to lobby for development in their constituencies. I was so disappointed with one hon. Member of Parliament. Despite being told to go to his constituency because His Excellency the President was going there, did not go there. Who are you going to blame? It was very embarrassing for the villagers to ask the whereabouts of the Member of Parliament from the President. How can this be?

Hon Member of Parliament: Shame.

Mr Chipungu: I would like to encourage my colleagues to attend meetings when called for. Recently we had a meeting for all Members of Parliament…

Hon. Member of Parliament: They lose nothing.

Mr Chipungu: They are twelve, but only ten came, two did not come. How will you know the development taking place in your constituency, if you shun the Office of the Provincial Administrator? I think this is not fair.

I thank you, Madam

The Minister for Southern Province (Mr Mulyata): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving this chance to windup debate on Southern Province. From the onset, you can see in the House that I am the only Provincial Minister who has not been complimented by the Members of Parliament from my area. The others, when they stand up, they are thanking their Minister, it is only me. Members of Parliament take note of that.

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: I want you to see what kind of a situation I have found myself in.

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: I want to thank the President of the Republic of Zambia for putting me in Southern Province because when there is a problem, we should sort it out. We are all Zambians and when we talk about development, let us talk about development for the whole nation. Members of Parliament talk about development for their constituencies, as a Provincial Minister I will talk about development of the whole Province.  Therefore, if you do not know what is happening in another constituency, then please come and ask us, we shall tell you.

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: I want to go straight away to where Hon. Major Chizhyuka said the President talked about Hon. Gary Nkombo over the mine in Mazabuka. If you do not have facts can you please consult. The President did not say that Mr Gary Nkombo was blocking development. There was a meeting in Mazabuka to ask the councilors whether that project should go on or not and they voted. Six councilors did not vote for that project. They said no. When the President went to the meeting, he did not mention the name of Hon Gary Nkombo. How can to day…

Interruptions

 Mr Mulyata: …Hon. Major Chizhyuka say that the President talked about Gary Nkombo. In this House, let us talk about facts. We are talking about the Gwembe people who were misplaced because of the dam and that they were not provided for. 

This Miner, Albidon has done wonders because we do not want a repeat of what happened in Gwembe. He has built houses for the people, if you have one house and one hut for your children; he has given you a big house and almost four houses for your children. I have been there physically, how can you condemn that kind of development? And you say you do not want that kind of development. When the President said ‘go to hell’ you say he talked about Gary Nkombo.

Interruptions

Madam Chairperson, we want to state facts. Right now, all the hon. Members of Parliament of Southern Province keep talking about Gwembe people. The Kariba Dam was done and we are supplying electricity to the whole country, what have we taken? You are complaining because those people were not compensated accordingly while the mine in Mazabuka, only a few minutes drive, before even taking nickel from there, he has started giving those people, some of whom have never dreamed that they will leave or build the kind of houses they have got. Instead of you the hon. Members supporting it, you are condemning it.

Madam Chairperson: Honourable, speak through the Chair.

Mr Mulyata: It is very unfair. Let us talk about facts and let us speak the truth. We have been told…

Hon Member of Parliament: Water.

Mr Mulyata: I do not need it…

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: We have been told in this House, and mind you some of us are coming to this House for the first time. Do not teach us bad manners, we want to debate…

Madam Chairperson: Order!

You speak through the Chair.

Mr Mulyata: Madam Chairperson, some of us are coming to this House for the first time and we want to know the truth about what goes on in this House. To start talking about things that are not there is very shameful. People might think this is how this House is.

When we talk about development in this House, we say miners have not done this and that, who told you that when Zambia privatised, we did it for foreigners? The minerals have been there with us, why do you Zambians, not do the mining? Who told you that the job is only to supply to the mines? It is our job as the Government to provide conditions that are conducive for you to be businessmen. So what are you talking about?

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: Madam Chairperson, in Southern Province we have statutory stocking. As the Government we have spent about three billion. The only province where statutory stocking started was Southern Province and none of those Members of Parliament is appreciating it. We have animals in Western Province, normally we had cattle re-stocking. Why do you not appreciate good things? Now, we are being told from the Yellow Book that the Bottom has been given some money. I have not heard anyone supporting this money that has been given for the Bottom Road. All you want to do is condemn.

Madam Chairperson, Zambia is about nine provinces…

Hon Members of Parliament: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulyata…if one province thinks that they can stay on their own, fine, there is no problem.

Laughter

Mr Mulyata: We are not going to develop this country in piecemeal. We must talk about development everywhere.

Interruptions

Mr Mulyata: Madam Chairperson, we have drilled many boreholes in Southern Province. This is an ongoing programme. Almost twenty-five boreholes have been drilled and…

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Order! Can you sit down?

Interruptions

Major Chizhyuka, Mr Hachipuka, Mr Muntanga and Mr Matongo stood up.

The Chairperson: Order! Order! I am on my feet and you are supposed to be down.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Order!

Major Chizhyuka interjected.

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Member! I am on the Floor.

Hon. Members we have come this far. Let us continue to debate in harmony.  The guidance that I am giving the House is that please, listen to the Chair. When the Chair says that “debate through me”, it has to be through the Chair, then, you are protected by the Chair. If you choose to go directly to other hon. Members, then you risk those hon. Members also responding to you. Can the hon. Minister, please, relax and speak through the Chair.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka, Mr Muntanga, Mr Matongo and Mr Hachipuka still on their feet.

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, can you take your seats or are we all presiding?

Major Chizhyuka, Mr Muntanga, Mr Matongo and Mr Hachipuka took their seats.

The Chairperson: When the presiding officer makes a ruling, it is done. There is no way we are going to allow exchanging of words between the Chair and hon. Members because the Chair is here to maintain order. Sometimes, when the Chair is carrying out her responsibility, you may not be happy, but the purpose is to keep order the House. I do not think that the statement made is a session. You do not cut off other people. Therefore, that is not the session. The expression is Zambian. I think as we use English, we also use it in our own Zambian style. Therefore, the ruling is done and let the hon. Minister continue bearing in mind every concern and the Chair’s guidance.

Mr Mulyata: Madam Chairperson, I want to inform this House that Southern Province is the only province, which ZAMTEL digitalised in all the districts and it is an ongoing programme. Apart from that, this province is also a tourist destination, there are a lot of developments going on, a lot of lodges are being belt and hotels are coming to the province. All this is happening because the Government has brought in conducive environment for the people to do this kind of business.

Madam Chairperson, I rest my case.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I thank you once again at this late hour of this morning for allowing me to say a few words after this long debate.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, in thanking you and through you, I would like to thank the twenty-six hon. Members of this House who have made contributions to this debate.

I was surprised that my brother and colleague Hon. Muntanga had not had a change to speak earlier. We missed you so much when you were out of the country. When the three of you stood up, I thought you were going to speak, but you did not get a chance to speak because you like this kind of debate. Not so?  I am sure you would have debated and very well too.

Mr Muntanga laughed.

The Vice-President: Once again, I would like to thank all hon. Members especially, those that have congratulated you, Madam Chairperson, your staff and those that have personally congratulated me.

Really, I hope that we have expressed ourselves. Perhaps, this is the building of democracy and that we all have our own opinions, but at the end of the day, in summary, one hears, one thinks. That is to say that we have agreed that there is need for development, not today, but yesterday. It also means that all of us, in different ways, have expressed the desire that development in our various constituencies should be enhanced.

After so many hon. Members have spoken, it is clear that we have agreed, which way, how to proceed and that we need more development in order to provide more employment to the people of Zambia. We all need the good things that the Government should provide such as good schools, teachers, equipped hospitals, nurses and doctors. We also need our roads to be fixed and bridges to be mended. We also need our own homes to be repaired and painted. We need a good environment in order to enjoy our country. I therefore, see no problem whatsoever, in the disagreement, which may appear to have surfaced during this discussion because it is normal.

We as a Government and on the other side, we have the Opposition. We have to oppose and show that the Government has not done enough. This reminds me of a very interesting story and encounter I had. My friend V. J. Mwaanga, knows whom I am talking about. I am also sure that many of you know Hon. Aleke Banda, a very prominent Member of Parliament and Minister for many years. Perhaps, he is equivalent to Mr Mwaanga in Malawi.

During their debates to change the Government as was the case here when the MMD came to change the Government from the long standing Government of UNIP, in Malawi, there was Dr Banda’s Congress Party.

Mr Lubinda in his seat: On a point of order, Madam.

Laughter

The Vice-President: I know that it is a bit late now and we are all under different influences.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I was saying that when the change was taking place, I had driven to go and see Hon. Aleke Banda at his home in Nkhata Bay. To me, as a Zambian, the road was so impressive through the hills and forest right up to his home. I found him in the middle of his campaign. He was campaigning to be a Member of Parliament for the new DEF. It was then, like the equivalent to the MMD.

When I got there, I found him with a lot of people and he was busy telling them something, but I did not know what he was telling them. In the process, I made a mistake and told him that “What a wonderful road network you have got.” He said “achimwene,” have you not seen that I am telling these people that they have done nothing,…

Laughter

The Vice-President:…but, you are coming to tell me that the roads are so good. You will spoil my campaign.

Laughter

The Vice-President: Therefore, this is normal politics. We will not stop that and it has to go on. What I would like to ask everyone is that, in spite of all that let us all get ready to adopt this budget for all the provinces as quickly as we can, because we do not want to delay any further. I know that many of our colleagues may not be able to travel today because they will need to rest a bit. I have seen all the correspondence that you have sent that you would like to stay for a day to rest before you get on the road. We do not want to have any one of us hurt if we get tired. All the same, I hope that we should agree to conclude as quickly as possible. We have discussed over the last three months effectively and I think we agree that we want to go now.

May I once again thank all hon. Members and the Provincial Ministers for all that they have said with regards to their provinces. We need to proceed to work very hard particularly after concluding debate on the estimates. Our country has gone through a lot of problems as a result of the floods and drought that we, hon. Members of Parliament here, both Front Bench, as well as the Opposition parties must hold hands and see that our country is put back on the rail. Our people all over Zambia must go back to their normal lives, to school, work, farms etc, and they cannot do that if we delay any further.

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, I would like to thank you for the wonderful guidance we have had this evening for cooling us down when we were upset with the manner in which we were addressing each other, but I am sure that we will still remain very good friends. As soon as we finish here and go outside, you would be surprised that we will be shaking hands again as hon. Members of this Parliament.

I thank you so much and call upon you to please, assist us in adopting this budget particularly for the provinces as quickly as possible.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 90/01 – (Office of the President –Lusaka Province – Headquarters – K8,628,247,337)

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 9, Activity 03 – Providing High School Requisites – K400,000,000, There is a provision of K400 million and yet last year it was K860,541,700 million. Could the Hon. Minister tell us why it has dropped? Are there not going to be any more school requisites?

The Minister for Lusaka Province (Mr Shawa): Madam Chairperson, this sum of money will enable the Government to procure modern school requisites such as laboratory equipment and computers.

The Chairperson: Why the drop?

Mr Shawa: There is no drop, Madam Chairperson.

Interruptions

Mr Shawa: In fact we bought some last year.

Interruptions

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Chairperson, may I also seek clarification on Programme 9, Activity 01 – Providing Basic School Desks – K253,271,250, last year we had K1 billion but it has dropped to K253 million and Activity 02 – Providing School Desks to High Schools – K193,875,000, last year we had K1 billion but it has dropped to K193 million. I want to find out why the drop because we still have more than 50 per cent of schools without desks.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, we would like to procure more desks in schools for Lusaka Province, but the reduction is because of the rehabilitation programme. We are now rehabilitating more desks other than procuring.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 90/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/08 – (Office of the President – Lusaka Province – Roads Department – K709,116,000)

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2, Activity 01 – Management Coordination - Nil, with your person, Programme 7, Activity 01 Feeder Road Rehabilitation/Construction – Nil. Last year this House allocated K323,778,252 for Management and Coordination and yet this year, there is totally nothing not even K1.00 has been allocated for Management and Coordination and yet there is provision of K709,000,116 for salaries. I would like to find out why are staff going to be paid without them being allocated any money whatsoever for administration. What work will they conduct without any money for administration and yet for all other Vote…

The Chairperson: You have asked your question. I think it is clear.

Laughter

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, none allocation is due to transfer the activity to Road Development Agency which has now been formed. And so, there will be a shift of activities to that department.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 90/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/09 − (Office of the President − Lusaka Province − Buildings Department − K1,936,375,379).

Dr Machungwa: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 02, State Functions and Ceremonies  − K9,400,000, I would like to know what state functions are at Buildings Department.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 02, State Functions and Ceremonies − K9,400,000, the sum of money shall be used to facilitate State Functions and Ceremonies and the decrease in the allocation is due to separation of activities,

As you may be aware, there are various functions that the Buildings Department undertakes. They prepare the podium where meetings are going to be addressed and other things.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 90/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/16 − (Office of the President −Lusaka Province − Forestry Department − K955,941,803)

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 9, Activity 01 − Promote Value Addition to Forestry Products − K2,800,000, I would like clarification on this amount.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 9, Activity 01 − Promote Value Addition to Forestry Products − K2,800,000, this amount shall be used to pay allowances, purchase of fuel etc. on the control of exports for timber.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 90/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/19 − (Office of the President − Lusaka Province − Water Affairs Department − K1,253,772,737)

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 8, Activity 01, Rehabilitation of Dams − K204,078,418, may the hon. Minister inform us which dams will be rehabilitated in Lusaka for this amount.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 8, Activity 01, Rehabilitation of Dams − K204,078,418, this amount will be used to rehabilitate already existing dams in Lusaka Province. The money will be used for allowances, fuel, maintenance of vehicles and civil works. The increase is to facilitate for more dams.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Minister, the question is on the rehabilitation of dams. Can you give us the answer, please, and note that there is no increase there.

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, while we appreciate that this is an activity budget, the item which Hon. Lubinda is asking for, specifically indicates the activity. The names of the dams will be provided at the office and like the Minister pleaded, let him go and check and the names will be provided, they cannot be in the budget.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 90/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/41 ─ (Office of the President ─ Lusaka Province ─ Youth Development Department ─ K253,299,999)

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 5, Activity 02 – Youth Skills Training – K8,600,000, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what youth training shall be conducted in Lusaka Province for only K8,600,000.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, this sum of money shall be used by the youth training institutions to provide the needed tools. Hence, I did mention that after completing these skills at Kalingalinga and Chiota training centres, they are provided with basic skills to help them settle after their courses.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 90/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90/46 ─ (Office of the President – Lusaka Province ─ Town and Country Planning Department ─ K323,792,355)

Mr Lubinda indicated.

The Chairperson: Mr Lubinda, are you serious? Hon. Member, we have to move.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, I would not rise if I was not serious. I am serious that I would like to find out with your permission. May I have clarification on Sub-head 1, Programme 8, Activity 02 – Sensitisation on Squatter Upgrading – K11,700,000, why in a year when there is so much problem with squatter compounds that there is only an allocation of K11,700,000 for sensitisation on squatter upgrading.

Mr Shawa: Madam Chairperson, this money will be used to sensitise the orderly development of timesheets. This is an on going programme and due to enhancement of sensitisation visits in various districts such as Luangwa, Kafue and Chongwe. This amount for now is adequate.

The Chairperson: As many as of that opinion say Ayes…

Hon. Members: Ayes.

The Chairperson: …of the contrary say noes.

Mr Lubinda: Noes.

Madam Chairperson: Hon. Lubinda, we will send you out. Can we have order, please?

Vote 90/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 91/01 – (Office of the President – Copperbelt Province – Headquarters – K7,065,312,373).

Ms Phiri: (Luanshya): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 21, Activity 03 – Construction of Staff Houses for Provincial Staff – K1,299,226,616. How many houses are we going to build and where?

Mr Mbulakulima: Madam Chairperson, on Programme 21, Activity 03 – Construction of Staff Houses for Provincial Staff – K1,299,226,616, first of all, construction of Government houses has been necessitated by the fact that Government houses were sold. Therefore, there is need for us to construct more. These will be done across the province. There are about ten houses which will be constructed across the province.

I thank you, Madam

Vote 91/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 91/19 – (Office of the President – Copperbelt Province – Water Affairs Department – K1,681,330,111).

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 8, Activity 07 – Mufulira – Construction of 2No. Dams and Drilling of Boreholes – K40,000,000. I would like to know how many boreholes will be drilled after two dams have been constructed from this amount.

Mr Mbulakulima: Madam Chairperson, on Programme 8, Activity 07 – Mufurila – Construction of 2No. Dams and Drilling of Boreholes – K40,000,000, this an Activity Based Budget. Last year, we were allocated K40 million and this year, we have been given the same amount. Therefore, it is an on-going exercise.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 91/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 91/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/45 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/19 ordered to stand part of estimates.

VOTE 92/23 ─ (Office of the President – Central Province – Labour and Factories Department – K350,100,352).

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Chairperson, on page 1233, programme 8, activity 01 – Employment Service – K7,000,000, can we have details as to what are these employment services.

The Minister for Central Province (Mr Chisanga): This new provision will carter for new recruitment conditions in companies.

I thank you.

Vote 92/23 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/24 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/25 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/35 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/36 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/37 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/40 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/41 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/42 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/43 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/44 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/45 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/46 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/48 ordered to stand part of estimates.

VOTE 92/49 – (Office of the President – Central Province – Provincial Planning Unit – K220,448,239).

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Chairperson, this being an activity based budget, I would like to find out on page 1249, programme 2, activity 02 – Holding of the PDCC Meeting, last year there was K11 million but this year there is nothing. I want find out why there is no allocation.

I thank you.

Mr Chisanga: Madam Chairperson, this provision will be used for payment of goods and services.

The Chairperson: Hon. Minister, page 1249, programme 2 – General Administration, activity 02 – Holding of the PDCC Meeting.

Mr Chisanga left the microphone on.

The Chairperson: Please switch-off that microphone.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Madam Chairperson, the provision is under programme 2, activity 06 – Facilitation of Meeting – K23,565,891, so we have left out the PDCC.

I thank you.

Vote 92/49 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/51 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/52 ordered to stand part of estimates.

Vote 92/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 92/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 93/40 – (Office of the President – Northern Province – Community Development Department - K2,189,927,660).

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Thank you Madam Chair. I would like to seek clarification on page 1270 Programme 1, Activity 02, Salaries Division II – K1,306,306472. Last year, we had K172 million. This year the provision is for K1.3 billion. I wanted to find out what has prompted that increase because I know that even salaries are at 16 per cent increment for civil servants.

Mr Chibombamilimo: This amount is required to pay salaries to Division II Officers. The increase is due to new positions and upgrading after restructuring. I hope it is clear.

I thank you, Madam.

Vote 93/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 93/56 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/01 – (Western Province – Headquarters – K4,805,801,820)

Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Sub-head 01, Programmes 15 – Animal Disease Control – (PRP)- K20,000,000, 16 – Livestock Development – K20,000,000 and 17 – Monitoring and Evaluation of PRP Projects – (PRP) – K300,000,000.

This has to do with animal disease control and livestock development. We have problems in Western Province and I would like to find out why there is a dramatic reduction from K334 million to only K20,000,000 and for livestock development from K570 million last year to only K20,000,000 when we have disease problems for our animals.

The Minister of Western Province (Mufalali): The decrease is due to the reallocation of funds to other programmes.

I hope I am right.

Mr Tetamashimba: Do not hope. Just be right.

Laughter

Mr Singombe (Dundumwenzi): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 2, Activity 04 – Barotse Royal Treaty Obligation – K70,000,000.

May I know what this treaty obligation is? Last year there was an allocation of K60,000,000.

Mr Mufalali: Madam Chairperson, the provision is for the payment of allowances, purchases of goods and services for the office of the interpreter to disseminate Government Policies to the province and to implement and inspect Government projects …

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: I am going on.

Hon. Members: No!

Mr Mufalali: … coordinate and control of all the departments of the province to meet …

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister!

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: … to pay

The Chairperson: Order! You are not giving us the answer.

Mr Mufalali: The grants …

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Vote 94/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/08 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Roads Department – K579,515,167).

Dr Machungwa: Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Sub-head 2 - Activity 01 because there is no allocation. Will there be no administration in the Roads Department?

Mr Mufalali: Inaudible

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 94/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 94/18 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Survey Department – K258,120,384)

Mr Mukanga: Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on Sub-head 1 – Activity 01 because last year we had K12,063,593 and this year, there is nothing. Has there been any rightsizing or downsizing in this category of employees?

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Madam Chairperson, there was no provision in Salaries Division 1.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: That is the question. Why is there no provision?

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, in a situation like this, it simply means that the position of the senior officer has not been filled. It is vacant that is why we have not provided for that and surveyors are quite difficult to get.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 94/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 94/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates

Vote 94/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 94/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 95/01 (Office of the President-Eastern Province-Headquarters-K 27,538,995,599)

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 12-School Provisions. Last year, they were combined and there was K700,000,000 budgeted for this but this year, there is nothing. I would like to find out from the Minister why there is nothing, considering that there is also nothing for rehabilitation of desks.

Secondly, I seek clarification on Programme 13, Activity 01-Rehabilitation of High Schools. Last year, there was K376, 945,701 and this year there is nothing, I would like to find out why.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Nkhata: Madam Chairperson, on Programme 12-School Provisions, there is no programme for the rehabilitation of projects because that is taken care of by the Ministry of Education and that is why there is nothing there.

I thank you, Madam.

Vote 95/01 ordered to stand part of Estimates.

Vote 95/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 95/17 - (Office of the President – Eastern Province – Lands Department – K216,699,346).

Dr Njobvu (Milanzi): Madam Chairperson, clarification on Programme 2, Activity 2 – Revenue Collection – 11,400,000. Last year, the allocation was K278,500,760, but now, it has dropped to K11,400,000. May I have clarification on this adjustment?

Mr Nkhata: Madam Chairperson, this amount is required to pay for fuel and allowances to officers collecting revenue. The reduction is due to a motor vehicle which was purchased last year and none will be bought this year.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 95/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/44 ordered to stand part or the Estimates.

Vote 95/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/47 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 95/49 – (Office of the President - Eastern Province – Planning Unit – K599,948,271).

Mr Mwale (Chipangali): Madam Chairperson, may I have clarification on Programme 8, Activity 01 – Project Monitoring and Evaluation – K96,890,000. Last year we had K384,975,000 million for Project Monitoring and Evaluation but that has reduced to K96,890,000 million. What has led to the reduction?

Mr Nkhata: Madam Chairperson, this amount is required to pay for accommodation, fuel and allowances during the provincial, district and committee meetings.

Interruptions

Hon. Members: Aah! Why the reduction.

Mr Nkhata: The reduction is due to reduced number of activities and programmes.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 95/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 95/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Mr F. R. Tembo (Nyimba): Madam Chairperson, …

The Chairperson: Hon. Member, you will not change the total it is already too late.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 96/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 96/44 −(Office of the President −Luapula Province −Provincial Local Government Office − K706,165,036).

Mr D. Mwila: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 02 − Chiefs Support − K330,000,000, I would like to know why this amount has gone up. Last year it was K43,750,000.

Mr Chinyanta: Madam Chairperson, on Sub-head 1, Programme 2, Activity 02 − Chiefs Support − K330,000,000, this amount is for general administration and the increase is due to high operation costs.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 96/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates
.
Vote 96/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 96/55 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 97/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 97/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/45 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 98/54 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 99/01 – (Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure ─ (K1,082,033,544,070).

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, once again, I have the honour to present to this august House the 2007 budget estimates for Head 99 – Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure.

Madam Chairperson, Head 99 is administered by my ministry as part of its overall objective to, and I quote:

‘Effectively and efficiently co-ordinate national planning and economic management, mobilise and manage public financial and economic resources in a transparent and accountable manner for sustainable national development and well being of the Zambian people’.

Madam Chairperson, the vote for Head 99 is used to facilitate both external and domestic debt service payments for constitutional posts as well as holding allocations for Civil Service salary and wage adjustment and an allocation for contingency, which is for unforeseen eventualities.

Madam Chairperson, I wish to remind this august House that the development programmes that are in the budget are partially financed in part using domestic and external borrowing. The Government is, however, committed to manage the borrowing so that the Government is able to meet all its financial obligations as they fall due and at the lowest possible costs. In this regard, my ministry is in the process of finalising its debt policy document as part of its reform process to review the legal and institutional frameworks for debt contraction and management. It is expected that these reforms will result in a framework that will explicitly define the authority and process of contracting debt and undertaking financial transactions on behalf of the Zambian people and the Government. The new arrangements will also address several aspects of public debts and will serve as a general guide on how contingent liabilities on lending and sub-national debts will be handled. New financing strategies will focus on concessional loans and the acquisition of grants to fund projects and programmes in growth sectors of the economy as defined in the Fifth National Development Plan.

Madam Chairperson, as clearly indicated in the estimates book, the numbers there indicate where indeed we are going to spend the money and, therefore, I expect the hon. Members in this august House to give support to this vote.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. PF Member: Tiye mudala. Quality.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Chairperson, although it is unfortunate that this subject is coming at this time, but it is a very important subject because it deals with the loan contraction process. I think there are some anomalies in the way we have arranged the loan contraction process. Let us remind ourselves, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Member: Quality.

Mr Milupi: In 1964, when we got independence, this country was virtually debt free. However, because of various issues which we have tackled on other days, we found that towards of the beginning of the 1970s, because of the oil crisis especially in 1973 coupled with the diminishing of falling copper prices, this country began to be in serious problems and to address them, we began to contract debts. As we all know, this rose to the tremendous levels of US$7.2 billion and in no time at all, we were running all over the place seeking to qualify for Highly Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC).

Madam Chairperson, the reason why I have decided to rise is because of qualification for HIPC, we have had this debt forgiven. There in lies the danger and the danger is if we are not careful as a nation, in no time at all, we can go back to the situation where we found ourselves and the reason for this is very straightforward.

There is a structural problem in the way we contract debts. This country has three wings in terms of the governance of this country, that is, the executive, legislature and indeed the judiciary. There are many things that come to the legislature for approval including appointments of certain constitutional office bearers. The budget estimates come here and we have spent all these weeks debating the budget for 2007. What are we talking about? We are talking about K12 trillion and that is equivalent to about US$3 billion.

Madam Chairperson, I talk about structural problems in that in terms of contracting debt for this nation, it is left entirely to the Executive. The people’s representatives, that is, the hon. Members in this House, do not have a structured role in terms of contracting back-benchers.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: That is where we have serious problems in this country. The Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is mandated to contract debt on behalf of this nation. Right now, we have a hon. Member in this position who is highly respected. The nation, however, will not always be that lucky. If we look at the loans that we contracted in the past, there are no records of how much debt we contracted, how much has been paid, how much debt we still owe or indeed how those loans were used. This is not only a problem for Zambia, it is a problem…

Interruptions 

Mr Milupi: It is a problem for the heavy indebted poor countries that are contracting these loans. These are countries in Africa and the Caribbean. This is also becoming a problem for the countries that give loans. This is why we have come up with what is called Illegitimate Loans. In the world today, there are loans that are obtained but not used for the intended purpose. There are also loans that are not given in good faith by lending nations. I will give an example of loans that Norway gave to African and Caribbean nations. The reason that this country gave these loans was because their ship building industry was in serious trouble. What Norway did was to give loans to a group of countries that would then use the same loans to buy ships from Norway. This is a true story. Subsequently, because of pressure from the civil society movement in both the borrowing and the lending nations, these loans had to be declared as illegitimate.

We have to work as a nation on the structural weakness of debt contracting so that the people’s representatives here have the ability to check on loans before the Executive contracts them. If we do that, some loans will be termed as illegitimate right from the beginning and the contract will not go through.

The last example I want to give, as time is not with us, is that in Ghana around December last year, a big loan was about to be contracted from the International Monetary Fund (IMF) and because they had just changed the law, the loan had to go through the Ghanaian parliament. It was there, through debate like this, that it was subsequently discovered that this IMF was not the actually IMF that so many people know about. It was another organisation that was just using those initials. This resulted in the Ghanaian parliament stopping that loan.

Madam Chairperson, what I am saying this morning is that we must have a Parliament that looks seriously at the structure of contracting debt for this nation if we are to avoid the going back into the serious situation we found ourselves in when our sovereignty was threatened.

I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!  

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank the hon. Members for supporting my proposal. As it has been clearly indicated by Hon. Milupi, we are going to be very careful so that we do not end up in the same position. Of course, we believe that this is dependent on the Government in place. As he has indicated, there are loans that we call, not illegal, but Obvious Loans. These are loans that were given to some countries and governments on the basis of other considerations and not on economic basis. I want to assure this House that in our budget address we did indicate that we are working on a new debt management strategy. In my statement this evening, I also mentioned that. This is why I want to say this morning that when we do come here with proposals to insert into the Constitution, some provision where this August House will be involved at some stage of loan contraction, that proposal is going to receive the welcome of this House.

I thank you, Madam.

VOTE 99/01 – (Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure – Debt Service – External – K129,272,800,000).

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Chairperson, sub-head 2, programme 8, activity 05 – Yugoslavia – K8,000,000,000, I need clarification because the state of Yugoslavia does not exist.

Mr Magande: To avoid confusing ourselves, in view of the changes that have been going on in Eastern Europe, we have kept the name of our former creditors the same. This is the loan that is in the courts; the Donegal Loan. We made a provision for payment and luckily enough, since we seem to be losing the case, we will have some money to start paying off whatever the judgment will indicate.

I thank you.

Vote 99/01 ordered to stand part of Estimates.

VOTE 99/02 - (Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure – Debt Service – Internal – K656,534,104,070).

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under 1 interest Payments, Programme: 7 Interest Payments on Treasury Bills, Activity 04, Payment of Interest on 364 Days Treasury Bills, by the deletion of K183,154,891,587 and the substitution therefore of  K176,154,891,587.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, I seek clarification on programme 9, Interest Payment on Bridge Loans, Activity 03, Advertising and Interest Charges – 537,902,005. Could the Minister explain to us what constitutes advertising?

Mr Magande: Thank you Madam. The figures should be on Interest Charges but we were using the same activity for advertising the Sale of Bonds and Treasury Bills. Normally those advertisements you see in the news papers are the ones that are a cost to us.

Vote 99/02, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 99/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 99/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 99/05 – (Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure – Other – K258,445,000,000)

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move the following amendment:

Under 1 Other, Programme: 7 Medium-term Pay Reforms – (PRP), Activity 01 Medium – Term Pay Reform, by the deletion of K258,445,000,000 and the substitution therefore of K246,620,000,000.
 
Dr Machungwa: Madam Chairperson, I may not object to the amendment, but I would like to know why the hon. Minister is reducing that figure.

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, this figure was in our Green Paper and it was part of our projection. We have now concluded our arrangements and negotiations hence we are sure of the figure that we will end up paying.

Vote 99/05, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear.

___________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The Estimates of Expenditure (Including Capital and Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure) for the year 1st January, 2007 to 31st December, 2007 were reported to the House as having passed through with amendments.

Report adopted and Mr Speaker appointed the Minister of Finance and National Planning to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bill to give effect to the resolution of the Committee of Supply.

___________

BILL

FIRST READING

The following Bill was read the first time:

The Appropriation Bill, 2005

Second Reading, now.

______

SECOND READING

THE APPROPRIATION BILL, 2007

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled and I quote

“Act to authorise expenditure from the general revenues of the Republic of moneys required for the services of the Republic during the financial year ending on 31st December, 2007 not exceeding in the aggregates K12,034,409,035,760.” End of quote.

Mr Speaker, the Bill before the House is the culmination of the task that we started in the Committee of Supply. I wish to take this opportunity to express my sincere gratitude and thanks to you, Sir, for your noble guidance in the conduct of Business in the House. Commendations also go to the Deputy Speaker and the Chairperson of Committees who have contributed, immensely, to the smooth conduct of Business.

Sir, let me also recognise the contributions made by the Leader of the Government Business in the House for ensuring that the House was always adequately organised for business. I also pay tribute to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the invaluable assistance and logistical support rendered during the deliberations of the motion.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: I am also indebted to hon. Members of this august House for their valuable contributions, counsel and support in approving the 2007 Budget Estimates.

As this House finishes business this morning, one major and important task ahead of us is the implementation and execution of the budget so that the theme of this year’s budget can be realised. I am aware that the success of the budget depends of the realisation of the Estimates of Revenue to fund expenditure programmes. It is with this, foregoing, that my ministry will ensure that revenue are collected to appropriate levels and timely disbursed to Ministries, Provinces and Spending Agencies (MPSAs) so that programmes approved by this august House are implemented. This, however, is not the end in itself as greater effort must be made in ensuring that those that receive these funds utilise the moneys given to them and in an appropriate manner. My ministry will also implement structural changes, as I announced before, to ensure proper management and accountability of public resources.

Mr Speaker, may I at this point, in time, remind my hon. Colleagues that they have a pivotal role to play in overseeing the implementation of the programmes contained in the 2007 Budget. My challenge also goes to other stakeholders and individual Zambians to take keen interest in developmental issues of our country. I, therefore, call on them to partner Government in monitoring development programmes contained in the 2007 Budget. Successful implementation of these programmes is what will, indeed, improve service delivery to our people as per our theme.

Sir, with regard to a number of budget issues that have come up during the current Session of Parliament, the Government through my ministry has take note of them and we hope to address some of them in the future budgets. Specifically, there were calls to address taxation issues and my ministry remains keen to review the current scenario through the proposed tax reforms to be undertaken in due course. Ultimately, Government wants a tax system that is fair or equitable, efficient and cost effective and at the same time a system that is able to provide adequate resources for national development.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga Indicated to debate.

Hon. Members: No!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning may wind up his Bill.

Laughter

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, let me, again, express my sincere gratitude for the overwhelming support to the Bill that I bring before the House. I just hope, as I have indicated, we are all ready now to fold our sleeves and go back to work of another kind. I know that we have been working for the last two months, but the work that we need to do now is no more to talk, but to use our muscle so that we can produce goods and services.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to the committee of the whole House.

Committee, today.

_______

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

THE APPROPRIATION BILL, 2007

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Schedule agreed to.

Title agreed to.
______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

Appropriation Bill, 2007

Third Readings now.

THIRD READING

The following Bill was read the third the time and passed:

The Appropriation Bill, 2007

______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE

The Vice-President (Mr Banda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn sine die.

Question put and agreed to.

_____

The House adjourned accordingly at 0511 hours on Friday, 6th April, 2007, sine die.