Debates- Wednesday, 18th July, 2007

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Wednesday, 18th July, 2007

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






505. Mr Matongo (Pemba) asked the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs:

(a) whether the fully-fledged diplomatic ties through the embassies were for economic reasons or for good neighbourliness; and

(b) how qualified, in economic development terms, the personnel in Zambia’s Missions abroad were.

The Minister of Foreign Affairs (Mr Sikatana): Mr Speaker, as regards part (a) of the question, I wish to inform this august House that the Zambian diplomatic missions opened in selected foreign countries afford the country a physical presence in those foreign countries where we have economic interests. The missions are, therefore, assigned the task of ensuring that political and economic relations remain cordial and conducive to further development of these interests.

Sir, in the context of the globalisation of the world’s economy, the Zambian Government has shifted emphasis from poorly political relations to economic diplomacy. As such, the missions are tasked to maintain diplomatic relations with their countries of accreditation with the view of facilitating the pursuits of economic gains for Zambia.

Mr Speaker, with regard to part (b) of the question, I, further, wish to inform this august House that Zambia through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs is managing thirty-one missions abroad. These stations are manned by officers specialised in different fields, with economics being one of them.

Sir, in terms of the economic development, the personnel appointed to serve in missions on economic desks are those in possession of skills in economic matters and other related fields. This is because they are expected to carry out regular research on economic issues in respective countries of accreditation in order to provide economic related information back home. This will assist the Government in policy formulation and decision making in economic matters.

Mr Speaker, they are also expected to compile economic reports on economic developments obtaining in countries of accreditation. Further, before such officers are employed, they are subjected to interviews, the process that allows the ministry to scrutinise the candidates’ educational and professional background as well as experience in the economic field. Once employed, they are made to work at the ministry headquarters before they are posted in order for them to understand the Foreign Service …


Ms Cifire entered the Chamber.

Hon. Government Members: Continue!

Mr Sikatana: … requirements.

Therefore, the personnel handling economic matters in Zambia’s missions abroad are qualified in respective fields in which they are appointed to serve.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the answer given by the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs who is our top diplomat.

Sir, two or three years ago when the Career Diplomatic Service was brought to this House, it was overwhelmingly supported. May I inquire whether competences and skills are considered when diplomats are appointed abroad, particularly, those below the head of mission status where I expect expertise to be an added advantage to educational background?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, efforts are made in order to engage qualified personnel. As this august House maybe aware, the ministry is currently running an institute that has started training personnel. It was only last Saturday, 14th July, 2007, that the first Graduation Ceremony was held for various personnel from various quarters that have undergone training in diplomacy. We shall continue to engage personnel that will be able to deliver.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for …

Mr Kanyanyamina (Kanchibiya): Kanchibiya!


Mr Speaker: Kanchibiya!


Mr Kanyanyamina: Mr Speaker, I thank you and I am most humbled.

Sir, deducing from the hon. Minister’s answer, and if I heard him correctly, he talked about economic ties. What security measures has his ministry put in place to protect Zambians who are going out to South Africa and other neighbouring countries to secure the security?


Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, as our nationals go to foreign countries, we depend on the security measures that those countries provide …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikatana: …and I do not think the person asking this question is expecting this Government to provide security in foreign countries.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I want to know from the hon. Minister whether he has any evaluation mechanism for feed back from these embassies abroad in terms of economic diplomacy. If he does not have any evaluation reports from these embassies, I would like to know why because there must be a measure for the performance of these embassies in terms of economic diplomacy.

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, we have a system in Government where we are provided with regular reports from every mission that enables us to measure their performance. So far, we are convinced that we are doing well. As and when there are shortcomings, we take the necessary measures to either transfer or engage fresh blood wherever the same is found necessary.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Minister: Quality! Good answer.

Dr. Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister will recall that during the budget debate, I drew his attention to the fact that it is widely supposed, whether correctly or not, that some of the appointments in the Diplomatic Service are based on nepotism, political influence and so forth. I suggested that he brings to us a list of people in the Diplomatic Service in order that we clear it up. Is he, now, prepared to actually bring the chapter and verse here rather than these general vague statements and solve the problem of the musician who is number four in the High Commission in a certain neighbouring country?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, we mean well in the Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikatana: … and all appointments are on merit.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikatana: What type of Government would send a failure to a Foreign Mission? With regard to what the hon. Member for Lusaka Central is asking for, I wish to state that it is unprecedented to hear of audits of personnel. However, as and when he wishes to acquaint himself of the identities and qualifications of the personnel in the Foreign Service, such information will be made available at the quickest moment.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Sir, my question is very straightforward. Will the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs be fair by informing this august House at what stage some of the cadres trained to become diplomats.

Mr Kambwili: Matatiyo.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Muyanda: Is it after they were either not adopted or after they failed, practically, an election process? May he be kind enough to tell this august House?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the Government is the judge as to who merits engagement in the Foreign Service. Whoever has been appointed, whether they were once what one would call cadres …


Mr Sikatana: … they were trained …


Mr Sikatana: … in life and in the fields where they were engaged previously.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikatana: Sir, as and when there is need for further training, we always recall them and take every opportunity to give them further training.
I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, looking at the recent appointments and cadres who have taken up positions in Foreign Missions, what is happening to the Career Diplomats Service in Zambia?

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, the person asking the question has only himself to blame for failing to see the merits in the personnel that we have so far engaged.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikatana: Mr Speaker, there are products that can only be seen by those hon. Members that have travelled to foreign countries to see for themselves how ably they perform. Therefore, calling them cadres is belittling them. Sir, the very person who asked this question is a cadre in his own party.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


506. Mr Imenda (Lukulu East) asked the Minister of Home Affairs how the refugees’ repatriation exercise in the following areas had fared:

(i) Maheba Refugee Camp and the surrounding villages;

(ii) Nangweshi Refugee Camp and the surrounding villages;

(iii) Mayukwayukwa Refugee Camp and the neighbouring villages; and

(iv) Mwange Refugee Camp and the neighbouring villages.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Ms Njapau): Mr Speaker, the repatriation exercise in Maheba, Nangweshi, Mayukwayukwa and Mwange camps, including Kala Refugee sites has mainly been targeting refugees from Angola and the Democratic Republic of Congo. The organised and voluntary repatriation programme of Angolan Refugees which commenced in 2003 and ended in Zambia on the 31st January, 2007, officially closed in a ceremony held in Luanda, Angola, on the 27th March, 2007.

At the time of closing, a total of 74,064 camp-based and spontaneously-settled Angolan refugees had been repatriated. According to the official report about the whole repatriation exercise issued by the Government of Angola during the official closing ceremony, about 100,000 Angolan refugees had returned home between 2003 and 2007.

The Angolan repatriation programme has been a success, a fact which has been endorsed by the international community. At the beginning of the exercise in 2003, Zambia hosted an estimated total of 211,000 Angolan refugees while at the close of the exercise in 2007, the country was hosting an estimated total of 40,000 refugees from Angola.

It is important to note that the majority of the remaining Angolan refugees are reluctant to go back to their country citing their long stay in Zambia, marriage ties, similarities in tribe and ethnicity to their hosts, which has resulted in good hospitality, as their reasons to stay on in Zambia.

The conclusion of the organised repatriation programme has triggered the need to start discussions on the possibility of invoking the Cessation Clause under the refugees conventions to which the State is part. However, before the Cessation Clause is invoked there is need to secure an alternative status for the remaining refugees, other than that of being a refugee. This is a complex and challenging issue which requires dialogue at different levels to arrive at the best way of addressing it. The Ministry of Home Affairs with support from co-operating partners has planned to hold a series of workshops, including a workshop for Parliamentarians, to facilitate such dialogue among the various stakeholders.

The Government of the Republic of Zambia in conjunction with the Government of the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and United Nations High Commission for Refugees (UNHCR) has also just commenced repatriation movements of Congolese refugees under the legal framework of a Tripartite Agreement on the Voluntary Repatriation of Refugees from the DRC living in Zambia entered into on the 28th November, 2006, and the practical modalities related to the voluntary repatriation of refugees of the DRC living in Zambia, signed on the 27th April, 2007 in Kinshasa, DRC. This programme is planned to run up to 2009 when it is anticipated that the targeted 60,000 Congolese refugees will have been repatriated to their country of origin.

As of 9th May, 2007, a total of 1,182 refugees had been repatriated to the DRC through Mpulungu Harbour using the ship. This figure comprises of 797 Congolese refugees from Mwange Refugee Camp and 385 from Kala Refugee Camp. A programme to register the refugees settled outside the camp will be conducted in 2008 so that assistance for this category of Congolese refugees to repatriate can be given.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imenda: Mr Speaker, in response to the question, the hon. Minister has not made reference to refugees from Rwanda who are found in our residential areas doing business in Zambia. Why?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Mr Speaker, the question from the hon. Member was purely for the Hon. Minister of Home Affairs to give an answer on how the repatriation exercise is being carried out on the Maheba, Nangweshi, Mayukwayukwa and Mwange refugee camps and the neighbouring villages. I see no other part on Rwanda.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwenzi): Mr Speaker, may I know how many of those refugees who were repatriated came from the integrated group.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, nearly the entire 74, 000 plus came from refugee camps and neighbouring villages where we had records of the refugees.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Njobvu (Milanzi): Mr Speaker, may I know what the Government’s policy is on those who are refusing to go back to their countries of origin.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the lengthy answer that my ministry gave through my hon. Deputy Minister explained the policy for those that are refusing to go back voluntarily. However, the Tripartite Agreement allows for Angola, Zambia and the UNHCR to deal with the issue of repatriation and then resources are found from the international community for the 74,000 plus to go back to Angola. There are those who refuse to go back because they claim to have lost contact with where they came from in Angola. Then, the Cessation Clause comes in to effect. This basically means that they stop being refugees. They now have to be considered under a number of statuses in the country. They either have to become investors; have to be given nationality status or have to be considered for other statuses that are available. This means that at the end of it all, if they cannot fulfill those statuses then they are deported back to their country.

I thank you, Sir.

Reverend Sampa-Bredt (Chawama): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs aware that there are some refugees serving various jail sentences in Zambia? May I know what plans he has for them when they finish serving their sentences?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, to answer the hon. Member of Parliament for Chawama, …


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: … after they have served their sentences, they are deported back to their countries.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm whether, as a result of the numbers of refugees in Western Province and other areas, the people of those particular areas, especially Lukulu, have suffered at the hands of the Karavinas who are associated with some of the refugees who are not abiding by the laws of the country.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Mr Speaker, there is no connection between the Karavinas and the refugees. Therefore, it is difficult to relate the two. We are aware, however, that the Karavinas are drawn from the local people whom we have arrested and prosecuted on the matter.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}


507. Dr Chishya (Pambashe) asked the Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training:

(a) what benefits the ministry gained by sending members of the Board of the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research for training abroad in 2004;

(b) how much the training trip cost; and

(c) how many of the board members who benefited from the training trip abroad were still serving in the ministry.

The Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Mr Daka): Mr Speaker, the National Institute for Science and Industrial Research (NISIR) Staff Development Policy does not include the training of NISIR Board Members. No member of the NISIR Board was sent for training abroad in 2004 and no board member has ever been sent for any sort of training.

As regards part (b) of the question, as stated earlier, no board member has ever been sent for training.

To answer part (c) of the question, as stated earlier, no board member has ever been sent for training abroad.

Mr Speaker, in 2005, the NISIR Board and Management undertook a Science and Technology familiarisation visit to South Africa from 22nd to 25th May. The aim of the visit was for the NISIR Board and Management to be acquainted with management of science and technology in South Africa, with particular focus on the following:

(a) legislation that govern science and technology;

(b) policies on science and technology and organisational structures;

(c) funding of science and technology;

(d) linkages between research institutions, institutions of higher learning and industry;

(e) institutional policies that address Intellectual Property Rights and indications of the number of patents granted to South African institutions;

(f) promotion of science and technology; and

(g) exploration of possibilities for collaborations.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training benefited from the trip by gaining knowledge in the following areas:

(i) how science and technology is managed in another country by being exposed to the management of science and technology in the Republic of South Africa; and

(ii) how science and technology is funded in another country by being exposed to the funding mechanism in the Republic of South Africa.

The National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research benefited from the trip in the following ways:

(i) gained insight on how to form multi-disciplinary research teams;

(ii) developed contacts with South African Research Institutions;

(iii) learnt on linkages on research institution of higher learning and industry; and

(iv) saw first hand the implementation of the value addition chain from product development to commercialisation.

The cost of the visit was K40.1 million broken down as follows:

Item                                                             Cost in Kwacha

Return air tickets for six people                           8.89m
Daily Subsistence Allowance for nights            24.88m
Incidentals, transport, Airport Tax                        6.38m
Total                                                                    40.15m
The delegation comprised Dr Henry M. Mwenda (NISIR Board Chairperson), Dr Kalaluka Munyinda (NISIR Board Member, Vice-Chairperson), Dr. Wilson N.M. Mwenya (NISIR Board Member), Mr Mumbi (NISIR Board Member), Dr. Mwananyanda M. Lewanika (NISIR Executive Director) and Mr Chitaku G. Mucheleng’anga (Head Research and Development).

The new Board was constituted in 2007 in accordance with the Science and Technology Act No. 26 of 1997.

Mr Mumbi who represents the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (MSTVT) on the NISIR Board is still at the ministry as Director of Science and Technology.

Dr Lewanika and Mr Mucheleng’anga are still NISIR members of the Board.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chishya: Mr Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has confirmed that the board went on a training trip on Sunday 22nd to Wednesday 25th May, 2005. Can he conform to the House that the funds that were used for the training trip were, in fact, earmarked for research activities and that this misapplication of funds has largely contributed to the failure by the research institute to conduct research and development of vital importance to the social and economic well-being of this country?

Mr Daka: Mr Speaker, it seems the hon. Member is more knowledgeable than I am in that sector. I wish, when he has such information, he could come to my ministry and share it with me.

However, I can confirm that trip was budgeted for and there was no misappropriation.

I thank you, Sir.


508. Mr Imasiku (Liuwa) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) who the designers and consultants of the Mongu/Kalabo Road were; and

(b) what action the Government had taken against the designers and consultants for the poor design and quality of consultancy offered.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Tetamashimba): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House as follows:

(a) the consultants and designers of the Mongu/Kalabo Road project were Messrs DIWI Consultants of Germany; and

(b) the consultants obtained an insurance, professional indemnity for the provision of consultancy services, that is, to protect the consultants from any claim for negligence in the carrying out of their duties. The ministry shall lay a claim for the poor design and supervision of the construction of the Mongu/Kalabo Road and the consultant will be penalised if proved negligent. Equally, the Government has asked the Ministry of Justice to give an opinion on how best to proceed with resolving the dispute with the contractor over the wash away.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I would like to know how much money has been wasted and, also, when the contractor who ran away to Namibia is coming back.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I do not have the exact figure right now, but so far, we have paid K7 billion. What I know is that all the money that we had for that road has been spent on whatever was planned. The contractor who worked on that road is the one we are trying to take to court.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sinyinda (Senanga): Mr Speaker, considering the fact that the person who designed that road was from Germany and how advanced technology in Germany is, is there any connection between the way the road was designed and the way it was made. I thought for that road to be good it must be a cosy way. It must be at the top other than building it on the ground. I would like to know, Mr Speaker, whether there was any correlation between the design and the way it was made.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, it has come to our attention that the initial design, in which case the road was supposed to stand at five metres, was underestimated. It was supposed to have been at six metres and that is what the next design will be. So, the origin of the person designing the road should not arise because the selection was done through an open tender and people submitted bids and his bid was the one that was accepted at that time.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


509. Mr Chisala (Chilubi): asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(a) How many police officers graduated from Lilayi and Kamfinsa Police Training Schools from 2001 to date;

(b) how many police officers were posted to the Northern Province in the same period above;

(c) which police stations in the Northern Province were most understaffed;

(d) what the reasons for the understaffing were; and

(e) what measures the ministry had taken to correct the situation at (c) above.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mrs Njapau): Mr Speaker, the response is as follows:

(a) The following number of officers graduated from Lilayi and Kamfinsa Police Training Schools from 2001 to date:

Training School         Number of Officers

Lilayi College                        1,811
Lilayi Paramilitary                 1,169
Kamfinsa                              2,104

     Total                                5,084

(b) The following number of officers was posted to the Northern Province:

Training School            Number of Officers

Lilayi College                        78
Kamfinsa                              31

(c) there are two police stations which are the most understaffed in the Northern Province and these are Mungwi and Chilubi Police Stations;

(d) Mungwi and Chilubi Police Stations are understaffed mostly due to the shortage of accommodation for officers and inadequate manpower; and

(e) Mr Speaker, the measures the Ministry of Home Affairs has taken to correct the understaffing situation are:

(i) construction of more housing units for the officers. This year, alone, 1000 houses will be built; and

(ii) intensification of recruitment exercise to reach the target of 27,000 officers by 2015.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, I am not satisfied with the answer given by the hon. Minister. Therefore, I would like to know the reasons that have contributed to some districts being marginalised when it comes to posting police officers from colleges.

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Shikapwasha): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to say, that we do not marginalise any districts whatsoever in the posting of police officers. As can be seen, recruitment figures are lean. In the interim period, 5,000 plus officers were recruited and then we distributed them throughout the country. There are other districts that have a less number of officers than the number which was sent to the Northern Province. We have continued to recruit even this year for us to fulfill the mandate to reach the 27,000 police officers in future.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Katema (Chingola): Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs 1,000 houses will be built for police officers countrywide. How many houses, specifically, are to be built in Chilubi to alleviate the shortage of manpower?

Mr Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, of the 1000 units, the provincial headquarters in the police have been asked to submit to the ministry where there is a bigger shortage of accommodation. Therefore, it is not possible for me to tell the hon. Member of Parliament how many housing units, exactly, are going to be constructed in Chilubi. It is up to the local command of the police to determine whether to put them in Chilubi, in Samfya or in Kasama.

I thank you, Sir.


510. Mr Nyirenda (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a) when the last geological survey was done;

(b) how many types of minerals were found in Zambia;

(c) how accessible the geological records to potential mining companies and investors were; and

(d) what strategic plans there were for continuous geological surveys in the country.

The Deputy Minster of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Mwale): Mr Speaker, geological surveys are a continuous exercise when funds are available. My ministry has just completed geological mapping in Mwense District and currently, there is a team in Mpika District carrying out a similar exercise which will lead to the production of digitised geological maps. Copper mineralisation has been confirmed in Mwense District, while in Mpika District work is in progress.

Types of Minerals Found in Zambia

There are five types of minerals found in Zambia and some of these examples are as follows:

Base metals    Gemstones      Industrial Minerals         Energy Minerals          Precious Minerals
Copper                Aquamarine         Clay                                      Coal                                Gold
Cobalt                  Red garnet           Limestone                            Uranium                          Silver
Lead                    Emeralds              Talc                                                                             Platinum
Zinc                     Tourmalines         Gypsum                                                                      Palladium
Nickel                   Amethyst             Granites  

Accessibility of Geological Records to Investors

The geological records at the Geological Survey Department are accessible to potential mining companies and investors at a nominal fee. On average, a geological report and map costs K150,000 each.

Strategic Plans for Continuous Surveys in the Country

The strategic plans for the continuous surveys are covered in the Fifth National Development Plan and the Vision 2030, targeted at increasing geological mapping of the country and conducting high resolution magnet airborne surveys which will unlock further mineral potential in the country. Currently, 55 per cent of the country has been geologically mapped, leaving 45 per cent and the mineral exploration will continue in order to guarantee the future of the mining industry in the country.

Mr Speaker, the strategy includes attracting support from co-operating partners in the geological surveys in the country. For instance, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is currently cooperating with Japan in the geological mapping of the Mpika District.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, could the Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development tell this House why Zambia is still lagging behind in terms of production or sales of copper and remains a poor country in spite of such minerals.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, it is not entirely true that we are lagging behind in terms of copper production. Certainly, we slowed down during the last days of the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM), but the situation has improved significantly. Production has doubled in the last four to five years. Our focus is that within the next four years, we will reach a million tonnes of copper per year which we have never experienced in this country before. In the current exploration going on, we are discovering more and more copper. In fact, we are in the process or programme to open up other copper mines in the Eastern, Central, Luapula and Northern Provinces.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development tell us the official price for the various types of minerals found in Zambia and how much money is generated annually excluding copper, cobalt and coal.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, that is an extremely detailed question which we cannot answer right now. Nevertheless, all I can say is that towards the end of last session, we gave a very comprehensive answer following a question raised by Hon. Kalifungwa. This is where we gave the details of mineral currencies district by district and province by province. If the hon. Member is interested, we can give him a copy of the answer we gave then.

I thank you, Sir.


511. Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) what the student population was at the Copperbelt University;

(b) what the available bed space was at the University;

(c) what the student/lecturer ratio was; and

(d) how many courses were offered at the Copperbelt University from 2000 to 2006, year by year.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Ms Changwe): Mr Speaker, the student population as at 31st May, 2007 was 3,363 broken down as follows:

School                                                Male                 Female              Total

School of Business                              533                     192                     725

School of Building Environment            586                     173                     759

School of Natural Resources               291                        67                    358

School of Technology                       1,353                      168                  1,521

Total                                                   2,763                      600                 3,363

Sir, the available bed space at the University is 1,842.

The student lecturer ratio is 20:1 and is broken down as follows:

School                                                   No. of Students           No. of Lecturers            Ratio

School of Business                                        725                                  31                              23:3

School of Building Environment                      759                                  48                              16:0

School of Natural Resources                         358                                  20                              17:1

School of Technology                                  1,521                                  72                              21:1

Total                                                             3,363                                171                              20:1

Sir, the total number of courses offered at the Copperbelt University from 2000 to 2006, year by year, were 4,639 and are broken down as follows:

School                                          2000         2001      2002       2003       2004       2005        2006        Total

School of Business                        60             60         66             72         72           72             84           486

School of Building
Environment                                  152            152       152           152       152          186          186         1,132

School of Natural
Resources                                      71              71         71              71        71            85            85             525

School of Technology                  346             346       350           356       362          368          368          2,496

Total                                             629              629      639            651      657           711          723         4,639

The courses that I have listed were for both degree and diploma courses offered during the period under review.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, from the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister of Education, it is very clear that the number of courses is increasing at the university and the infrastructure is not increasing. Will the hon. Minister of Education indicate to this House when his ministry or the Government will start increasing the infrastructure at the university so that it corresponds with the number of courses being offered?

Hon. Opposition Members: Quality!

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member for Kwacha was following the reports in the media very closely, he should have learnt that the School of Business in particular, has been opened at the Copperbelt University. This is an indication of how serous this Government is …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: … about the constructing infrastructure in our tertiary educational institutions and other levels of education.

Sir, it is clear that the infrastructure development in the education sector has been cited as a major priority in the revitalisation of our education system. That has been made apparent on the Floor of this House several times.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Mumbi (Munali): Mr Speaker, sometimes you will find students at the university that are married and sharing a room. In future, is there any consideration by the Government to build separate hostels for students that are married so that they do not share the hostels with the students who are not yet married?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, anyone familiar with the nature of universities knows that student accommodation means just that. In most cases, a distinction is made between Graduate students and Under-graduate students. This is the same for the University of Zambia; we have accommodation for Under graduates and Graduate students. However, in the new design of students’ hostels, consideration is being made for different designs of students’ hostels which will cater for different needs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, the question that was asked by Hon. Mulenga regarded infrastructure, particularly to do with bed space. As the hon. Minister is aware, there is a shortfall of 1,521 bed spaces at the university, and not necessarily lecture rooms. He has talked about designing of hostels. Could he indicate to this House and to the nation when the Government will start to develop infrastructure to provide increased bed space at the university.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, students’ hostel construction is at an advanced stage. The universities are at the designing stage and after designing, the approved designs will be advertised and, thereafter, companies will be selected to begin the construction process. Therefore, in terms of when, the answer is that the process in on and we expect the construction to begin in the course of this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I heard the hon. Minister say that there are new designs, but why can we not get standard drawings to cut down on the expenses since, already, there are some existing hostels at the universities. Why do we not use standard drawings?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is an engineer, and he knows very well that architectural infrastructure changes in terms of costs according to time. Clearly, the designs of the 1960s may not be suitable at the moment in terms of the needs of different student categories. For example, looking at the designs of the current hostels at the University of Zambia, they are not user-friendly for students who are physically challenged. That is a need which has to be met.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Additionally, there are other needs that have to be catered for and that is why it is important that the universities come up with cost-effective designs which will meet various needs.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker is the hon. Minister aware that the Copperbelt University was initially not a university, but Zambia Institute of Technology (ZIT), and meant for the School of Mines at Lwanshimba. We have ever since carried on with these dilapidated buildings. Is the Government going to raze down the buildings and erect a standard university?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I am aware that the Copperbelt University began under the auspices of ZIT, and became a separate university in 1987. The Government is aware of the state of infrastructure at CBU and that is why efforts are being made to construct students’ hostels. As I mentioned earlier, part of the School of Business has been opened, and the other part is still under construction. This is an indicator of the seriousness which this Government attaches to the construction of new infrastructure in our universities. Equally, in this year’s budget, money has been set aside and approved by this House for the construction of four students’ hostels at UNZA, and two hostels at CBU. This is also an indication that this Government attaches a lot of importance to ensure that our universities have a face-lift.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}


512. Mr Msichili (Kabushi) asked the Minister of Lands:

 (a) how many candidates submitted trial survey records and reports for 
examination by the Survey Control Board from 2003 to 2006, year by year;

(b) whether the results of the candidates at (a) above were released and, if not, 
why; and

(c) what measures the ministry has taken to ensure that land law examinations and cadastral surveys in the nation are conducted in an efficient and transparent manner by the Board.

The Deputy Minister of Lands (Mr Hamir): Mr Speaker the following is the reply:

Sir, the Survey Control Board was established by Section 6 of the Lands Survey Act, CAP 188 of the Laws of Zambia. Its membership comprises the Surveyor-General, the Chairman, one Government land surveyor, two private land surveyors and one legal practitioner.

Mr Speaker, the candidates that submitted trial survey records and report for examination between 2003 and 2006 are as follows:

 Year                Candidates passed                Candidates attempted         Successful trial Survey
                          Law examination                    Trial Survey                            Candidates

2003                  Board approved                          Board approved the                  Nil
                          12 applicants to sit                      conducting of five 
                          for examinations.                         trial surveys. None
                          Seven candidates                       of the candidates
                          sat for examination.                    submitted their trial
                          Five out of seven                        survey report to the
                          Passed the                                   Board.

2004                  Nil                                                 Board approved the                  Out of the two trial survey
                                                                               conducting of eleven                submitted to the board, only
                                                                               surveys. Only two of                one was successful.
                                                                               eleven candidates
                                                                               submitted their trials
                                                                               report to the Board

2005               The Board                                       Board considered                       Nil
                       approved thirteen                           four trials survey
                       applicants to sit for                         applications and
                       the examinations.                            approved the 
                       Seven sat for                                  conducting of three.
                       examinations out of                         Three trial survey
                       which six candidates                      reports were 
                       passed the                                      submitted to the 
                       examinations.                                  Board.

 2006               Nil                                                    Nil                                                Nil
                        Board did not meet 
                        due to lack of
                        quorum and
                        attempts to 
                        reconstitute the 
                        Board failed

Mr Speaker, both successful and unsuccessful candidates were accordingly notified of the board’s decision in writing of their respective results both for Land Law and Trial Survey Examinations.

Sir, a standard manner of preparing Land Law Examinations has been set. The standard is equally used to mark the set examinations. Survey examination materials are prepared well in advance, at least a month before the date set for examinations. Such examination materials are approved by a board meeting prior to the examinations. Survey Law Examination candidates are advised in good time by the board through public advertisement in newsprint of the date set for the examinations. Candidates who have applied to sit for the Land Law Examinations and who have met the requirements of the board are advised in writing on the various statutory laws and regulations that they are expected to be familiar with. The Land Law Examinations results are released soon after the next scheduled board meeting.

Mr Speaker, with regard to the execution of cadastral surveys, the board has put in place stringent measures that include increased physical ground inspection and sensitisation tours in selected parts of the country where surveyors have conducted cadastral surveys. The board shall further interact more with practising land surveyors in order to share ideas on how to improve the profession as well as how to provide a more efficient service.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Msichili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the board released the results of these examinations only in 2007. In addition, this institution is a very important institution. Why then, do we under fund it? For example, in this year’s budget, only K20 million was allocated to this very important institution.

The Minister of Lands (Mr Machila): Mr Speaker, actually, the results for the examinations were issued in the years that the examinations took place. I can, therefore, confirm that the 2007 examinations shall take place this Friday 20th July, 2007 at 0830 hours.

With regards to the provision in the budget for this department, my ministry has noted the comments that have been made, but we would further like to confirm that, at the moment, we are able to manage with the resources that have been made available for the purposes of this department. Therefore, as the capacity increases, we shall endeavour to increase the requirements in terms of finances.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


513. Mr Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a) when the hydro-power equipment at the Musonda Falls Power Station, which was built in the 1950s would be replaced; and

(b) when the Government would increase the production capacity of the hydro-power station at (a) above in order to meet the ever increasing demand for electricity in Luapula province and in the Democratic Republic of Congo.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Sichilima): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the Government is currently sourcing funds amounting to US$6 million (K24 billion) to replace the hydro-power equipment at Musonda Falls and this equipment will be replaced as soon as funding is secured.

Sir, the Musonda Falls Power Station has an installed capacity of 5 megawatts (MW). Currently, the power station is only able to generate a fraction of its designed capacity because the machinery at the plant is old. These machines were installed in the 1960s and 70s and not 1950s.

Sir, in order to bring the power station to operate at its designed capacity of 5 MW or more, the power station requires complete replacement of most of the electro-mechanical equipment.

In addition, civil structures such as the dam and waterways will require repairs. The total cost of rehabilitation of the power station as said earlier on is about US$6 million.

Sir, as I have already stated, the procurement of new hydro-power equipment for Musonda Falls and the repairs works to civil structures at the station will improve the production of hydro-power at the station. This will also greatly improve power supply to Luapula Province.

Sir, similar works and re-investment will have to be undertaken on the other small hydro-power stations such as Lusiwasi (12MW), Chishimba Falls (2MW) and Lunzuwa (0.75MW). The estimated costs for these other works is US$12 million (K48 billion).

Mr Speaker, the funds required for all these works is K72 billion of which both the Government and ZESCO are looking for. The completion of these works will contribute to the improvement of power supply in Luapula Province.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: I am aware that Musonda Falls Power Station was constructed in 1958 and operationalised in 1960. I am also very much aware that the last construction of a generating power station was done in 1976 and that was Itezhi-tezhi.

Now, it is thirty years down the line, has the Minister of Energy and Water Development and ZESCO in particular, been close to the idea that, at one time, Zambia would develop further, and the importance of energy realised, so that these experiences of perpetual black outs could have been avoided if there was planning? Is the hon. Minister confirming that for thirty years, there has been inadequate planning in terms of energy?

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, definitely the Government is aware that this nation needs energy in order to develop. On that basis, investments in the electricity sub-sector such as the one at Musonda Falls were embarked on. As has been mentioned by the hon. Deputy Minister, over a period of time, there has been wear and tear which requires to be rehabilitated.

The Government, once again, has embarked on programmes of rehabilitation of the various plants in the generating stations starting with the Victoria Falls, Kariba North Bank and Kafue Gorge. As we have already mentioned, the Government is sourcing US$6 million to rehabilitate the power station at Musonda Falls. Moneys will still be sourced by the Government to rehabilitate other generating infrastructure because it is aware that it needs to provide adequate energy to drive this economy.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that there are frequent blackouts in the Luapula Province. Can the hon. Minister explain why load shading is encouraged in this area, when most of the time the area is subjected to blackouts due to transmission problems?

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, as I said, places such as Luapula are connected to the major grid through the peninsular. Although there are other small generating stations within the province such as Musonda Falls, the energy they generate, as I have said, is not adequate to drive the energy requirements for the Luapula Province.

As the hon. Member rightly said, due to transmission failures, because of the length of the line, sometimes the line fails and the power which is available in the south cannot be transmitted to the north in Luapula. As a result, there is a power failure. However, the Government is aware of this and is working to address it so that these transmission failures are reduced or brought to zero and the people in the Luapula Province can have uninterrupted power to drive their economic needs.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}


514. Mr Mwangala (Nalolo) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) how many Zambians had been killed or abducted by soldiers from Angola in the Lilondo and Sipuma areas of Shangombo District during the raid in February, 2001;

(b) how many of those abducted had returned to Zambia;

(c) how much property had been lost in the raid at (a) above in respect of the following:

(i) houses;
(ii) crops; and
(iii) cattle; and

(d) what action the Government had taken to ensure that those who lost their beloved ones and property were compensated by the sister Republic of Angola.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Ms Njapau): Mr Speaker, the number of Zambians killed or abducted by soldiers from Angola in the February, 2001 raid is eighty-four. Of the eighty-four, twelve were killed and seventy-two were abducted.

The number of Zambians who returned to Zambia was seventy-two.

The estimate loss of property in the raid is as follows:

(i) 53 houses were destroyed;
(ii) 53 fields were destroyed; and
(iii) cattle – nil.

Sir, our Government and the sister Republic of Angola, through the Joint Permanent Commission (JPC), have formed special committees which comprise officers from the Ministry of Defence and Home Affairs in the respective countries.

The objective of these committees is to resolve matters such as, among others, compensation of the victims of the February, 2001 raid in the Lilondo and Sipuma areas of Shangombo District.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwangala: Mr Speaker, at the time of the invasion, the Government made an assurance that when peace was restored to our sister country, Angola, consideration of compensating the victims would be made. It is almost five years since peace was restored in that country. When is this compensation going to be made?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Mr Speaker, maybe, the hon. Member of Parliament for Nalolo could help us by providing the undertaking that the Government made. Then only can we refer to it because we do not have it in our records. The Joint Permanent Commission (JPC) between Angola and Zambia discusses the cases individually as they come and thereafter, they are submitted to us.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, since the Joint Permanent Commission (JPC) has not yet managed to get any relief for the Zambians who lost their lives and property, as a Government, what has the Government, in the meantime, done for its own citizens who suffered during this raid? If there is nothing that has been done, why is it so?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I wish to say that first and foremost, at the time of the incidences, when houses were destroyed, relief was given to those who were affected because our troops and the Government paid attention to resettling them. As to the issue of compensation, which is being pursued by this Government, we will continue to interact and engage the Angolans for us to have relief for our people.

I thank you, Sir.


515. Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services when the ministry would provide transport and office equipment, such as computers, to district offices.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Chinyanta): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services have in its 2007 Budget provided financial resources to purchase some vehicles and office equipment for provinces and districts. So far, the ministry has purchased forty computers which have been distributed to various provinces and districts. In addition, the ministry has, also, purchased nine vehicles which have all been distributed to provinces and districts.

The distribution is as follows:

Province                            District                      No. of Computers

Central                                 Kabwe                                       1
                                            Mumbwa                                    1 
                                            Chibombo                                   1
                                            Serenje                                      1
Copperbelt                           Chingola                                    2
                                             Ndola                                        2
                                             Mufulira                                     1
                                             Masaiti                                       1
                                             Chililabombwe                           1
                                              Kitwe                                        1
Eastern                                 Chipata                                      1
                                              Lundazi                                     1
                                              Petauke                                     1
                                              Chadiza                                     1
Luapula                                  Mansa                                       1
                                              Samfya                                      1
                                              Kawambwa                               1
                                              Milenge                                       1
Lusaka                                  Chongwe                                    1
                                              Kafue                                          1
                                              Luangwa                                    2
Northern                                Kasama                                       1
                                              Nakonde                                      1
                                              Mpika                                           1
                                              Luwingu                                      1
North Western                      Solwezi                                        1
                                              Mwinilunga                                  1
                                              Kasempa                                     1
Southern                               Livingstone                                  1
                                              Choma                                         1
                                              Kazungula                                   1
                                              Siavonga                                     1
Western                                 Mongu                                         1
                                               Senanga                                     1
                                               Sesheke                                     1
                                               Kaoma                                        1
Total                                                                                        40

Mr Speaker, the distribution of transport is as follows:

Province                               District                                No. of Vehicles

Central                                    Kabwe                                         1
Copperbelt                              Ndola                                            1
                                                Kitwe                                           1
Lusaka                                    Lusaka                                         1
                                                Kafue                                           1
North-Western                        Solwezi                                        1
Western                                  Mongu                                          1
Northern                                  Kasama                                       1
Southern                                 Livingstone                                  1
Total                                                                                             9

Mr Speaker, the ministry will continue to purchase more vehicles and computers whenever resources are available.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the Minister how they are treating this exercise of purchasing vehicles, especially for rural districts where the majority of vulnerable people are found.

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Ms Namugala): Mr Speaker, as a Ministry, we are aware that service delivery is hampered due to lack of transport and as the Deputy Minister has said, the Ministry will continue to purchase motor vehicles as and when resources are available.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister inform us whether she is satisfied with one vehicle which is provided for Mpika as big as it is.

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, as can be seen from the list, there are some districts that have not benefited. Mpika District has according to the means available and I can say that we are satisfied for now because that is what the Ministry is able to provide for Mpika.

I thank you, Sir.


516. Dr Chishimba asked the Minister of Justice whether there were any plans to enact a law which would make tribalism a crime against good conscience.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda): Mr Speaker, the Government is of the view that the issue of tribalism, undesirable as it may be, requires education and does not require criminalising. However, it is an offence, under Section 70(1) of the Penal Code of the Republic of Zambia Cap. 87, to express or show hatred, ridicule or contempt for any person because of his race, tribe, place of origin or colour. In this regard, Section 70(1) provides as follows:

“Any person who utters any words or publishes any writing expressing or showing hatred, ridicule or contempt for any person or group of persons wholly or mainly because of his or their race, tribe, place of origin or colour is guilty of an offence and is liable on conviction to imprisonment for a period not exceeding two years.”

Further, it is an offence attracting imprisonment of seven years or a fine not exceeding 6,000 penalty units or both to publish, print, distribute any seditious publication or to utter seditious words which, in terms of Sections 57 and 60 of the Penal Code Cap. 87, includes publishing, printing distributing materials or uttering words with the intention of promoting feelings of ill will or hostility between different communities or different parts of a community (Section 60 (1)(f). For purposes of this section “community” is defined as including persons having a common tribal or racial origin.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishimba: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how many politicians or leaders have been prosecuted for conduct that is ultra vires to the provisions of the same Act, in particular, on tribal remarks.

Hon. Member: You will be the first one.


Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, that is a new question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister be kind enough to round up some small parties that have been founded purely on tribalism. The hon. Minister can assist this country by rooting them out because they are already in existence.


Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, in enforcing criminal law, you have to gather evidence and ensure that the conduct which is alleged to amount to a criminal offence fits within the ingredients of Section 70 of the Penal Code of the Republic of Zambia Cap. 87, that is, whether the person is showing hatred, ridicule or contempt for any person or whether seditious statements have been made. If anybody makes seditious statements or conducts himself in such a manner as to fall within the ambit of this section, then action can be taken.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, the reason for the law that the learned Minister of Justice referred to was, in part, to ensure that Zambians feel that they are national people. I would like to find out when the Government will take the initiative to stop asking children when they are getting registration cards and passports, what their tribe is, because that, in itself, creates and promotes tribalism. Does his Government have any thought of avoiding asking children their tribe, given also the number of tribal intermarriages in Zambia?

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, tribe is part of our tradition and culture and an identity of a person which we must be proud of. Ask what one’s tribe is a harmless question.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, I would like to ask the learned and very intelligent Minister of Justice to confirm whether it will be convenient and in the interest of public policy for the Government to embark on a crusade against tribalism.

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, that is why the law which I have read is there. The Government policy is that we are against tribalism. The Coat of Arms symbolises One Zambia, One Nation. Therefore, it is already part of the law. Therefore, there is no need to start explaining.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether it is tribalism for a specific political party to state that they specifically want a particular tribe to ascend to the Office of the President of the Republic of Zambia.


Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, all I can say is that promoting ethnicity, in whatever form, is undesirable and contrary to the laws of Zambia. We should be encouraging Zambians who qualify for the position of President in various political parties to stand in accordance with our motto of One Zambia One Nation.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


517. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Health when construction of Chipili Clinic in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency would be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Puma): Mr Speaker, the tender for the construction of Chipili Clinic was awarded to Tomorrow Investment through the Zambia National Tender Board. So far, the structure has reached roof level. Unfortunately, works have stalled due to non-performance by the contractor. The Government has requested the Ministry of Justice to handle the case with the contractor. It is hoped that a solution will be found so that the project is completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was about to ask whether the hon. Minister was aware that it is the failure by the Government to honour the contract that has led to the delay of the completion of the project. Also, is the hon. Minister aware that African Development Bank (ADB), which is funding the project, has given the Government up to June, 2008, after which ADB will withdraw the funding. What is the Government doing about this?

The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, it is not the Government’s failure for this contract to be frustrated. The truth of that the tender to construct six rural health centres or rehabilitation of Senga Hill, Chitoshi, Matumbo, Chibale, Kayembo and Chipili rural health centres, including the Kasama Nursing Training School were advertised through an international competitive bidding. After the evaluation of the tenders by officials from the Ministries of Works and Supply, Education and Health and the consultants, Tomorrow Investment, won the tender.

Mr Speaker, what has happened is that all of these projects have encountered difficulties. As far as we are concerned, through the African Development Bank (ADB), funds have been allocated as per certification of the works that have been done. We have encountered nearly at every site, employees going unpaid even to-date and the claims of lacking funding have been disputed. This dispute started as way back as last year in June. Through ADB and ourselves, we have paid US$634,625.24. The contract sum is US$1,799,052.59.

Now, because of this acrimony between the contractor and the project manager on one hand, we sought assistance from the Attorney-General’s Chambers. It is clear that as far as the Ministry of Health is concerned, we are extremely unhappy with the performance of Tomorrow Investments. As far as we are concerned, we will not give any tender whatsoever to this contractor. Because of this dispute, we are hoping that on Friday, 20th July, 2007, the Ministry of Justice will resolve this matter at a meeting that has been arranged.

Sir, I think from my explanation, it is clear that it is not the Government’s failure that these works have not been completed. Therefore, we hope to be guided by the Ministry of Justice, as regards the way forward.

Mr Speaker, it is true that the Africa Development Bank has given us this debt, and it will be within our means after Friday, 20th July, 2007, to re-advertise because as far as we are concerned, we cannot see any capacity in this contractor continuing with the works.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muteteka (Chisamba): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister is aware that the same contractor has been awarded a contract worth K5 billion by Zambia Wildlife Authority to do some works in Eastern Province.

Mr Speaker: Order! I doubt if that falls within the portfolio of the hon. Minister of Health, except as Cabinet, maybe, you brief one another. Is it possible for you to give an answer?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, indeed, as Cabinet Minister and having been Minister of Education, I can only confirm that even in education, there are many contracts that, to date, have not been fulfilled as per contract. With regard to the Zambia Wildlife Authority contract, I am not able to shed any light on that.

I thank you, Sir.


518. Mr Matongo (Pemba) asked the hon. Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry why the country was not determining the national scale of development in the private sector by intervening in the issue of bank interest rates to borrowers.

The Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, the Government does not directly interfere in the determination of the macro-economic indicators such as interest rates. However, it indirectly intervenes through tight monetary and fiscal policies that aim at stabilising the macro-economic environment.

Sir, it is the Government’s understanding that sustained low inflation is a prerequisite to reduced commercial bank lending rates. Bank lending rates have for years been relatively high, hence posing as a deterrent to investment as many individuals and companies are unable to access finance at high interest rates.

Mr Speaker, through the implementation of tight monetary and fiscal policies, the interests rates have exhibited a falling trend since the 2001. The year 2006 closed with a nominal lending rate averaging at 27.9 per cent, down from well in excess of 50 per cent in the year, 2000. The Government has pledged to implement more stringent fiscal discipline by limiting Government borrowing from commercial banks to 1.2 per cent of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) as stated in the 2007 National Budget to ensure that interest rates continue to decline. The sharp decline in borrowing by Government has helped to reduce the pressures on inflation and interest rates while freeing resources for the banks to lend to the private sector.

Sir, further, the Government has put up measures to determine the national scale of development by implementing comprehensive economic and financial sector reforms through the Private Sector Development Plan and the Financial Sector Development Plan. The Private Sector Development Programme is a reform programme aimed at resolving policy issues that negatively affect the business operation. Through the Private Sector Development, the Government is determined to make the private sector, the engine for economic growth. The Financial Sector Development Plan, on the other hand, is aimed at guiding the efforts to realise the vision of a financial system that is, and I quote:

‘Stable, sound and market-determined and that would support the efficient resource mobilisation necessary for economic diversification and sustainable growth.’

The Financial Sector Development Plan for Zambia was approved by Cabinet in 2004, and covers the period 2004 to 2009. Some of the most important elements of the Financial Sector Development Plan due for implementation in 2007 include the following:

(i) National Payment System

(ii) Sovereign Credit Rating for Zambia

(iii) Credit Reference Bureau and Deposit Protection Scheme.

National Payment System

Parliament passed a National Payment System Bill this year in order to ensure that the management, reduction and containment of systemic risk and other payment related risks which ultimately will have a positive impact on reducing the cost of borrowing on the domestic market.

Sovereign Credit Rating for Zambia

The process of obtaining a Sovereign Credit Rating for Zambia is scheduled to start this year. When obtained, the Sovereign Credit Rating will generally reduce the cost of borrowing from international market for Zambia. Further, this will translate into lower cost of borrowing on the domestic market.

Credit Reference Bureau and Deposit Protection Scheme

The Government is facilitating the establishment of a Credit Reference Bureau as a private sector initiative which will create a conducive atmosphere in the domestic market.

The House may wish to know that Credit Reference Bureau African Limited has been issued a licence to operate as Credit Reference Bureau. The Credit Reference Bureau will help enhance credit culture, instill confidence in the financial system and will contribute reducing bank interest rates to the borrowers.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that elaborate answer. I accept that liberalisation of the economy and market forces must be encouraged. However, the basis of the question with regard to liberalisation is to try and kick-start, particularly in the case of the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act of 2006, which has not taken off because of lack of money or is expensive. I would like the hon. Minister to reflect on what has happened to the Zambia Development Agency. Is it really a one-stop shop?

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, it is quite correct that the cost of money in this country remains relatively high. It remains high for two reasons which we are trying to tackle at the moment. The culture of paying back is one. Then, there is the culture of bad cheques, and, indeed, the difficulties that we have in having appropriate collateral to access credit.

However, there is also evidence on the ground that, for example, in 2006, the borrowings by the domestic industry grew by more than 62 per cent compared to the year 2005.

Last year, they borrowed over K3 trillion. Obviously, the private sector is there for them to borrow K3 trillion in one year and the conditions are available for increased lending to the private sector which we are going to enhance upon.

With regard to the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA), Mr Speaker, Parliament passed an Act and the ZDA was to be operational from 1st January, 2007. A number of things needed to be done. Firstly, it was for us to be able to collapse the five institutions logically into one, particularly from the human resource perspective, from the establishment perspective, from the focus perspective and the direction focus. Now these efforts were originally underestimated that they needed a lot of more work to be done in order to have an institution that is going to properly deliver this work. We have since finished with the establishment for ZDA. We have since finished with computing the redundancies for those that we are not going to take on in ZDA. We will soon be advertising for the spaces that are to be available in ZDA. We have constituted a board which is 100 per cent operational. We are also working with the co-operating partners to work on a strategic direction of ZDA so that all the licenses that were issued by these five institutions can now be issued by ZDA so that the investor only contacts one door at ZDA. Where they go behind the scenes is not for the investor to know. However, these efforts may take a little bit of time for them to be real. I call for a bit of patience as we deal with this colossal problem because not only is it a system and procedural change, but it is also a change encompassing the shift of mind. It will take a bit of time.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I am not an economist, but a law maker. While I understand that this Government has no interest whatsoever in interfering with regards to the economic fundamentals, such as, exchange rates, interest rates and so on, I want to know from the hon. Minister who is going to save this country from the economic shylocks. More often than not, we have heard the Bank of Zambia Governor urging commercial banks to reduce interest rates to a point of almost pleading because all the other economic fundamentals show the direction that interest rates must be reduced and the Bank of Zambia Governor goes to the extent of begging some of the banks I call, economic shylocks, to reduce their interest rates and they have not reduced their interest rates. Who is going to save the Zambians who have voted us in power if you do not want to interfere in the economic fundamentals as you have rightly stated?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mutati: Mr Speaker, the issue raised by the hon. Member for Namwala is very fundamental. What we have achieved in the last five years is that all the economic fundamentals with regard to having a stable macro-economic environment have been going in the right direction meaning that inflation is falling and the exchange rate is stable. The interest rate graph has been falling, but at a rate not in tandem with the fall in inflation. This has been because of the resistance by the banking community which has been attributed to the fact that the credit culture in this country is so costly because the rate of default is almost 30 per cent and they have to recover this from somebody. That is the reason we have put in the Credit Reference Bureau so that you can not borrow if you are delinquent with bank number one because that information will be available with bank number two and bank number three. You will not be able to go along the same street to borrow if you are delinquent with bank number one. That will have the impact of reducing the cost of money.

Secondly, Mr Speaker, the Bank of Zambia Governor has done a commendable job. He has been engaging the banking sector to reduce the cost of money. This has not had the desired impact. What will have the desired impact is to expose the local banking community to competition and that money can be borrowed and secured outside the borders of this country. That is why next week, on the 25th July, 2007, we have invited a team of private equity investors and financial institutions from outside Zambia who have an asset base of US$1.5 trillion. We have on the other hand invited Zambian ordinary business people to come and meet with these people and tell them that they should not only go and fill in yellow and red forms along Cairo Road, but there are better ways of securing structured finance. The moment that our local banking system knows that you can borrow elsewhere, they are going to be competitive and that is the reason we are bringing this. We have invited some of the hon. Members to come and attend this meeting on the 25th July, 2007. I urge those who have business proposals and those who want to think about securing moneys beyond the borders of Zambia to come and attend this function. This is the only way the banking sector is going to react when we bring in competition and the cost of money for the indigenous Zambia is going to come down.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}


519. Mr Chanda (Kankoyo) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development what measures the Government had taken to ensure maximum safety of personnel and property in the new and old mines.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, the Government through the ministry has taken the following measures:

(i) the Mines Safety Department has intensified inspections of the mines, for example, the number of inspections increased from 485 in 2005 to 1,285 in 2006;

(ii) the Government has increased the fleet of inspection vehicles at the Mines Safety Department from one in 2005 by procuring three new field vehicles in 2006;

(iii) Government recruited fourteen new inspectors in 2005 which increased the number of inspectors to twenty in 2006;

(iv) the Mines Safety Department collaborates more closely with operating mines through their Accident Prevention departments headed by competent managers. These departments carry out safety inspections during mine operations. The managers and staff in these departments carry out internal safety audits and make improvements where and when necessary. They also induct all new employees including contractors in safety awareness; and

(v) The Government is considering the possibility of engaging retired and experienced miners as honorary safety inspectors and consultants.

As a result of these measures, there has been a reduction in the rate of mine accidents. For example, the number of fatalities and reportables reduced from 80 and 334 in 2005 to 18 and 270 in 2006 respectively.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development whether the Government has got any plans of establishing Mines Safety Department (MSD) offices in areas where there are mining activities other than the Copperbelt.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, certainly, we have those plans to establish MSD offices in areas outside the Copperbelt. We take safety issues very seriously and that is why where safety issues have been compromised, steps have been taken, including closure of mining operations until they have complied with safety standards. The programme that we are working on is such that we will open up, in every province, one big mining operation in the next three to four years. It means that we are going to extend safety inspections and places of safety officers to all areas where mining will take place.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Mr Speaker, maybe a bonus question, if you may allow. Is this interest in safety also going to be extended to small-scale mining in places such as Chienge?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, certainly, safety issues are across the board whether someone is engaged in small or large-scale operations. Safety standards are enforced throughout the industry. We have a programme to train small-scale miners not only in safety issues, but also in marketing as well as safe mining methods. This means we are extending safety standards to every mining operation.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether, the staffing level and fleet of vehicles in view of the number of mines in operation in this country, three vehicles and twenty inspectors can effectively guarantee safety of our miners.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, we should recognise the efforts we are making in this direction. Certainly, from almost nothing to three is not a bad record and, in any case, this is a continuous exercise to strengthen this department. In fact, yesterday, I surrendered my own vehicle to the Inspectorate Unit. The challenge we have is recruiting younger mining engineers to conduct safety inspections because as a result of the metal boom, there is a worldwide shortage of engineers, hence the difficulty in recruiting them. That is why we have decided to turn to the pool of human resource from the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) that we can tap on as honorary safety inspectors.

I thank you, Sir.




Mr Munaile (Malole): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that, in view of the limited resources available to fund public roads in the country, this House urges the Government to review its policy on funding of roads so as to allocate the funds available in each financial year to roads planned for completion in that particular year.

Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that the state of most roads in the country is poor. In fact, one would be right in asserting that the state of our roads is t embarrassing, given that after forty-three years of independence, we are still talking about the state of the major roads in the country. Something ought to be done about this state of affairs as a matter of urgency.

Mr Speaker, I am convinced that the reasons for this scenario of the road network has to do with the manner funds are allocated to the roads sector. The Government allocates inadequate funds for deserving roads and we remain expectant that much will be done. That is expecting too much.

Mr Speaker, it does not matter which province one comes from. There is a road or roads crying to be rehabilitated in every province. Most of these roads have remained unattended to for as long as one cares to remember. I have in mind the Bottom Road in Southern Province; the Kasama-Kaputa Road through Mporokoso in the Northern Province; the Lundazi-Chama Road in the Eastern Province and the Nchelenge-Luchindashi Road in the Luapula Province. Even getting to Luangwa Boma, in Lusaka Province, is every motorist’s nightmare. The same can be said of many other roads in other parts of the country.

Sir, some, if not all of these roads, have found themselves permanent space in the Yellow Book. Nearly every year, they are mentioned, and yet nothing much is done about them. The roads continue to be in the same deplorable condition in which they have always been.

Mr Speaker, let me elaborate this. In this year’s Estimates, for instance, K20 billion has been allocated to the Mutanda-Chavuma Road. The amount is only enough to cover 20 Kilometres. The Kasama-Luwingu Road has been provided with K20 billion to cover a 20 Kilometre stretch. The Choma-Namwala Road has been allocated K18 billion for only 10 Kilometres. The Mongu-Kalabo Road has been allocated K20 billion, but with the terrain in the Western Province, this amount will not even be enough to rehabilitate the 27 bridges in the plain.

Sir, when are these roads going to be completed, given that they all started many years ago, but nothing much seems to be done about them? At the rate we are going, it will take us more than five years to complete these roads and at that time, potholes would have started emerging where the rehabilitation started because of the time taken to complete the work.

Mr Speaker, allow me to echo what the Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning stated in his Budget Speech to this august House on 9th February, 2007. It reads:

“The challenge in resource allocation is the need to avoid spreading resources too thinly across programmes if any impact is to be felt.”

Indeed, I totally agree with the hon. Minister. Unless we start allocating enough funds to complete any road we start, no impact will be felt. It is shameful that after forty-three years after independence, we are still talking about the rehabilitation of major roads in the country.

If a streamlined allocation of funds for the rehabilitation of roads can be replicated all around the country, we would be able to point out something that would have been achieved at the end of this Parliament’s life in 2011.

Unless we change our conservative approach and wake up to the reality that we have failed to achieve much in the past, we will be failing ourselves. There is an overwhelming and urgent need to review our approach in the way we attend to our poor roads. This is the time for us to do something for which posterity will remember us by.

Mr Speaker, I would not be exaggerating if I pointed out that barely 10 per cent of our roads have received adequate rehabilitation in the last ten years. These would include the Kabwe-Kapiri Mposhi Road, Lusaka-Mongu Road, the Chingola-Solwezi Road, Monze-Zimba Road and more recently, the Lusaka-Kabwe Road. Yet Zambia is more than just those roads. The starting point should be to prioritise the roads most in need of rehabilitation, allocate enough funds to them and move on to other roads. You will be amazed at how much progress will be made within the next five years.

By passing this motion, Sir, we are showing our commitment to the Road Development Agency’s vision of better roads by 2013.

In conclusion, I wish to implore all hon. Members of this august House to support this Motion. This is a Motion, which is deserving of every hon. Members’ support. It is a straight forward, non-partisan and all embracing Motion.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Mr D. Mwila: Now, Sir.

Mr Speaker, the mover of the Motion has ably described the scenario that exists in the rehabilitation of our major roads countrywide. It is no secret that the roads in this country are among the least developed infrastructure in the region.

Mr Speaker, it is also a fact that a country such as Zambia that has a poor road network can hardly expect to deliver development to its citizens. A well-developed road network is always a bonus to the developmental efforts of any government.

Mr Speaker, as a country, we can only make meaningful progress in the critical areas of health, education and agriculture if the road sector remains vibrant. It must be mentioned that while a significant amount of work has been carried out on the roads, this has been largely due to the assistance of the World Bank and other donors. The Government must, also, play its rightful role. It must not leave this critical area to outside forces.

Mr Speaker, it has become evident that if we are not careful and focused as regards road rehabilitation, we will never be able to rehabilitate our roads in the next five or twenty years. I say so because we have something like 67,000 kilometers of the road network around the country and 80 per cent of this network is in a state of disrepair.

Mr Speaker, you will note that from as far back as 1970, the road network in this country has not been expanded. We need to open up new roads, but this will never be realised if we do not change the approach in the manner funds are allocated to the roads sector. We need to connect the Northern Province to the Eastern Province, through the Chama-Matumbo Road; the Northern Province to the Luapula Province, using Kasama-Luwingu to Mansa Road; the Western Province to the North-Western Province, using the Mongu-Kabompo Road, through Lukulu and many other roads that will open up the country for investment.

Mr Speaker, it is unbelievable that today, after many years of independence, we still have district roads that are untarred. It is unacceptable.

Mr Speaker, evidently, we can work these projects better. Let us re-align the manner in which we allocate funds for rehabilitation of roads in our country. Only then can we make a headway. Otherwise, come next year, we will still be talking of our shortcomings and failures.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the seconder to the Motion could not have put it better when he said a good road infrastructure is a bonus to the developmental effort of any nation.

Mr Speaker, roads in any nation improve the social interaction between communities. They enhance the commerce and trade of that nation, and for rural areas, they bring on stream those economic natural resources into focus. These include minerals, agricultural products, tourism sites and, indeed, forestry products.

Firstly, a good road network helps in bringing to the communities schools, health facilities and other social facilities. In order for the country to achieve its developmental goals, and I refer to the protocols to which we have appended our signature, that is, the Millennium Development Goals by 2015 and the Fifth National Development Plan and, indeed, our overall vision, the Vision 2030, it is absolutely imperative that all capital projects are completed and completed timely.

Mr Speaker, development relies on how well you undertake capital projects. I am talking about any type of capital project. In order for any capital project to return to the owners of that project a good return on investment, it is imperative that the project is completed timely and that is point number one.

Number two, it is imperative that the project achieves the required quality and is also completed within the required project costs.

Mr Speaker, let me now refer now to the Motion on the Floor. The current piecemeal method of funding roads construction runs counter to all that I have said. Roads funded in piecemeal take an inordinately long period to be completed. As has already been said in most cases, sections started get destroyed even before the whole road is completed. To obviate this, roads under construction must be funded for the period under which they are planned and to achieve this, the Government must completely reconsider the funding of road construction. As a way of helping, I would like to suggest the following:

(a) budgetary allocations for all road construction, especially in rural areas must be increased;

(b) the fuel levy that is currently levied on all motorists must be used exclusively for road construction;

(c) the Ministry of Works and Supply must borrow a leaf from the Ministry of Energy and Water Development in the way that the ministry seeks to source construction funds to the extent of US $500 million to fund the rural electrification network.

I say they should take a leaf from this in that roads must also have money sourced for them. I would suggest to an extent of US$1 billion to fund exclusively the construction of roads because of their importance to the overall development plans of this nation.

If these three things I have suggested are done, we shall always have money to complete the road construction project that we embark on in the time frame in which we embark on those projects.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, the motion to me was not clear because the mover is talking about funds available in each financial year to roads planned for completion in that particular year. The last debater, Hon. Milupi, was right when he said that some of these roads take long and even the mover agreed that some roads take as long as five years.

In this regard, I find it very difficult to support this motion. In any way, in addition to this, I do not agree with the mover that the poor workmanship is a result of poor funding. To me, it has to do with the calibre of the contractors themselves. A good contractor can still do work that is of a good standard with the little money available.

Sir, first things first. What is required is the beginning of the cycle and this has to do with the players in the construction industry. This is because you can keep funding, but if the players do not know how to construct the roads, then the money that is funded would go down the drain. The starting point should be the players in the construction industry, namely contractors, consultants, board members and staff of the agencies.

This has to do with recruitment. When you recruit, you have to be very careful and that is why I am suggesting that the security wings must be involved in the recruiting system.

I was listening to Radio Phoenix this morning and there was a question asked by one of the callers to the hon. Minister. This caller said that there are some wrong characters right there with you in some of these agencies. They have defrauded the Government and yet you have employed them. However, I was rather disappointed that my counterpart never answered that question. We have to start with recruiting the right players in the construction industry.

We have to be very careful on the same issue of recruitment and interviews. The way we interview the people who apply to work for these agencies calls for honesty and transparency. Allow me to give an example of what is required for somebody to work for these agencies. Let me just mention two requirements even though there are many others. One of them is that they must, at least, have ten years practical experience in a senior operating position in the construction industry in Sub-Saharan Africa.

Secondly, ideally, the individual should have a well established reputation locally with the industry, the Government and donors, very good public relations, no need to be stubborn with the leadership, no need to be cheeky and rude. These are the requirements. However, if we have bad eggs in the construction industry, then we have the problems that we are experiencing now.  As an example, Mr Speaker, …

Hon. Member: Summarise!


Mr Mooya: … Let me give an example of why we need very good players in the construction industry. I was amazed when I read, two days ago, that a certain contractor wants to appeal to the Republican President for time extension. He is working on the Chembe Bridge. That is unheard of. Those are the wrong contractors that am talking about. The president is too busy and he is not party to that contract. Why not appeal to the committee of ministers in particular the Minister of Works and Supply? After all, there was competitive bidding and, as usual, evaluation. I am sure there was some transparency in the evaluation. If there was some transparency, whoever was responsible should have seen that this contractor was not going to make it.

If I may give another example, Mr Speaker, yesterday on television when I was listening to the news, there was a contractor who was given an extension; I think it is called something like Reubex. I could not believe it. Originally, he had quoted for six months. Now he has been given an extension of another five or six months, but really, those involved in the evaluation should have seen that this contractor was not going to make it. He has blocked other contractors who, I am sure, would have given the right time for completion. All that boils down to the bad eggs and bad players in the construction industry.

What is the way forward? The way forward is to do what I think Hon. Kapita has done. I was licking my lips yesterday when he talked about how he is going to control the animal diseases. I thought he had stolen my idea, but I think the way forward is to call for a crisis meeting of experts like what he has done. That way, you will find a solution to this chaotic situation. Once you find an answer, you can call the experts to find solutions. You should implement those recommendations and that calls for political will.

Hon. Government Member: Quality!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, I am suggesting that we have to start all over again. I am a very worried Zambian because of what I feel in terms of the construction industry. The economy is growing, simultaneously, the construction industry is also growing, but we are not in control of the construction industry. Some people may say it is boom, but I call it doom.


Mr Mooya: Sir, we are at the crossroads. This is a very serious motion. I think a lot of people should have been consulted before coming up with this motion. Therefore, we need a good policy. We should fund these projects and finish them. If we do not look at the players, all that money will be drained.

Mr Speaker, I am encouraged by the way the hon. Minister of Works and Supply is touring the country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: He could be in Luapula Province and would start talking about the bottom road, which is in the Southern Province. We have never had such a hon. Minister before.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya: Mr Speaker, when I was listening to the interview this morning, I was encouraged by some callers who called for a longer stay of the hon. Minister of Works and Supply. He is really doing a good job.

Mr Speaker, in this regard, I would like to say that I have two opinions.  Therefore, it is difficult for me to support this motion because of the way it has been written.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtonga (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, I stand to support the motion ...

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtonga: … for crying out loud. I think the bottom line is that there is a mess in the manner in which our roads are being attended to in this country. I hope this motion will help the Government have better consideration of Zambia. For example, I want to say that the confusion my hon. Colleague who has just spoken is referring to is even more on my part, especially when I think of a number of agencies and ministries that are dealing with public roads in our country. There is the Road Development Agency (RDA), National Roads Fund Agency (NRFA), the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and the Zambia National Service (ZNS).

Mr Speaker, all these are converging in one system or another, and doing one and the same thing. They also overlap such that there is confusion. For example, on the Lundazi/Chipata Road, there was an Auditor-General’s Report in the last sitting of Parliament. It pointed out the fact that there was this man claiming K14 billion when the so-called mended road was peeling off. This man was saying that he had stopped work because he had not been paid. How do you pay a person for the work that is already in a bad state? That was the question the Auditor-General posed. To this day, Hon. Simbao, your predecessor did not answer that question. With all the praises that the colleagues have put on you, you have a chance to re-organise the way our roads are attended to in this country.

For example, you really need to look at the question of completion of works and the certificates issued before payment. Who really passes that a payment is due to a contract even as my colleague has asked as a professional man? We have a crowd that is anxious to be paid for no work done. I have picked up a story consistently saying we have poor work on the roads because the MMD Government is having a cut from this. Now, how do you explain this in the face of things unexplainable?


Mr Mtonga: Sir, it is important, for your own and our sake, that you do these things correctly. It is also important that we have in place an authority that can pass a road having been done and a certificate issued in accordance with the codes of performance. If you do not have that code of performance, what induces you to pay before the road is done?

Sir, for example, I have a particular complaint. In my constituency, we have three construction companies. All of these are based in Kanyama Constituency and I had regular interactions with these companies. Their most frequent visitors are politicians. One of them is already bidding as one of the future Presidents in MMD. His company was based there. Therefore, when you interact with these people intelligently and not patronisingly, you would find that along the way, you have mixed the question of friendship and people’s work. That is what we must guard against. You may have friends in business but when the Government of Zambia is doing business for us and our people, it should show the dividing line.

Sir, he cannot be donating heavily to the ruling party and at the same time expected to keep the standards.

Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!

Mr Mtonga: Please, let us have a re-organised approach in that area. I was involved in the works on the Makeni Road in which I was assisted by the current hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I want to thank him publicly for doing a very good job. He went out of his way to give us the first K400,000 towards which Makeni residents contributed a K1 billion to work on the road. We were assisted by the so-called site engineer before the road is resurfaced. Even in this instance, there was a problem because he got 75 per cent of the payment to the point that even those who were volunteering refused to take the job for us. They were saying that the site engineer has taken everything. Now, if the cost of paint is K20,000 and the painter wants to be paid K20,000, how logical is that?

Mr Speaker, certainly, it is not good business where you have to pay a site engineer more than it takes us to buy tar and resurface a road. Something is definitely wrong. Hon. Sikatana said that if you have travelled, you should see what happens in other countries.

I am thankful that Zambians paid for most of my trips. Why is it that the roads in Malawi and Zimbabwe are different from ours? When we tar our roads today, there are portholes in a number of places the next day.

In all fairness hon. Minister, I know too much about some of the things that are happening in Zambia. Therefore, I am constrained in underlining the need for the Ministry of Works and Supply to highlight the necessity to clean up the ministry and rationalise all the groups that deal with public roads in Zambia.

Sir, the materials that are used must be suitable for our weather and terrain. We should not have a repeat of what happened on Senanga Road. That is a typical case of outright theft of people’s money. How does someone agree to do something, provided he has got his dollars, then goes away? Short of saying we should have a commission of enquiry, because I do not think you will release the results; we must find a way around this hon. Minister.

Finally, I would like to support the idea that if roads have been included in the budget for construction by our various Government agencies, I would like to see evidence that the Government is moving practically and intelligently. For example, in my constituency, I have five roads in the Yellow Book, but to date the money has not been released. There is no activity at all by any site engineer to look at the roads. Perhaps they will come in December, I do not know. Why was the money allocated in the budget in the first instance?

There are five roads worth in excess of K3 billion and no one is helping us to fulfill this allocation. I am sure you can multiply that, being the basis of my colleague’s motion, by 150, going by the number of our constituencies. We have such serious problems, where the Yellow Book has X number of budget allocation and nothing is being done. Who is monitoring that? Is it possible that we can be helped, so that, in reality, we do not expect anything but that you deal with these roads?

However, at the moment, we are running around like rats, trying to get some help and we are not getting anywhere. I hope my country can come to a stage where we can proudly see territorial roads that exist in neighbouring countries like Namibia, which has fantastic roads. What is the difference? If a contractor leaves this country to go to Namibia where the roads are excellent, what is he running away from? Corruption? He is probably running away from corruption, and I beg that we examine this issue. I know that in its coining, it may not be fundamentally correct, but I believe we must support this and ask the Government to move forward for our sake.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Member stood upright

Mr Speaker: Order! Do not stand up like that.

Hon. Members: She is beautiful.


Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to contribute on this important motion. Since the motion is not clear, I would like to say that I will neither support nor oppose the motion. In saying that, I want to stress that it would be inordinate and unreasonable to make other areas suffer as a result of poor planning by this Government. It is the duty of this Government to plan effectively for the completion of all roads that are budgeted for.

Mr Speaker, as Members of Parliament, we have the duty to represent our respective constituencies. We will be failing in our duties to come up with a motion that will give priority to roads that were started fifteen years ago at the expense of other roads in our respective constituencies.

Sir, if this motion entails roads that are budgeted for in a particular year, beginning with this year, then I am supporting the motion. However, if we have to make other roads suffer at the expense of roads whose construction started many years ago, like the Mutanda-Chavuma Road, the Bottom Road and others, then I am not supporting the motion.


Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the Roan-Mpatamatu Road is a case at hand in my constituency. Even the Republican President made a pronouncement in Luanshya during by-elections that the road would be repaired. In this year’s budget, there is a provision of K400 million for the road to be repaired. We were told by the engineer in Ndola that works would start as soon as the rainy season ended.

Only last week, we were told in this House that works would start in September, which is only one month away from the rainy season. Now, we wonder whether pronouncements made in this House are anything to go by. If the Government says it will repair the road after the rainy season and then the next day, it wants to repair the road during the rainy season, is that poor planning or inadequate allocation of money in the budget?

Most of the roads have a good allocation of funds in the budget like the previous speakers alluded to. The problem that we have is in the implementation. We are going towards the end of the year and some of the roads budgeted for this year have not even started being worked on. Not even feasibility studies have been done.

The question is: Is it poor planning on the part of the Government or inadequate money allocated in the budget for the respective roads? The answer is simple. It is poor planning by Hon. Kapembwa Simbao and his group in the ministry. As long as these people go to sleep, our roads will continue being in the state they are in.

With these few words, Sir, I beg to move.

Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair would like to guide that when the House is meeting as a National Assembly, hon. Members should be addressed either by their constituency or by the portfolio they hold, and not by name. However, when you meet as Committee of the Whole House, then you can go by names if you wish.{mospagebreak}

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to this motion. I am also grateful that it has been raised by an Independent Member of Parliament who knows something about teamwork, since in his former career as a footballer, he scored many goals as a member of a team.

This is a motion where we need teamwork. Sir, there may be technicalities about the motion, but the principal intention must be appreciated. Every road leads to some Zambian village, where human beings stay and which they call their home. For better, for worse, they need access to that place.

Sir, roads are needed for various economies, in small places, big places and places such as the North-Western Province, which was called the Cinderella Province before, but is now a very rich and vibrant economic province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Therefore, if we neglected the question of roads for North-Western Province, it would be a disaster for Zambia.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Therefore, it is important that this question is addressed.

Mr Speaker, there is a clear Government policy regarding the road sector and the work plan for the Government for a number of years to come. There are institutional arrangements to ensure that this policy is implemented. The Road Development Agency is one such innovation, but I am speaking as a customer and hon. Member of Parliament from Chienge where the promise of a road is the major issue, particularly the Kashikishi/Lunchinda Road.

Sometimes, we wonder whether the current institutional arrangement makes it possible to enforce the policy properly. I am aware of what the Central Board of Health meant to the Ministry of health. Is it possible that the Road Development Agency has become the equivalent of the Central Board of Health, threatening the very capacity of the Ministry of Works and Supply to provide leadership effectively in the implementation of the policy on the road sector? That is the question I pose. I do not have an answer, but I hope the ministry can exercise itself to that question. They should exercise themselves to the other question of whether the funding arrangements are appropriate, which is the question posed in this motion as you have the National Roads Fund (NRF). One organ (NRF) is keeping the money, the RDA is controlling the contractors and the Ministry of Works and Supply is sitting down talking policy. Are they co-ordinating in a manner that makes things work on the ground?

Sir, sometimes, in an attempt to rationalise our institutional arrangements, we over rationalise and there may be difficulties in co-ordination. I would like to see the concern that was posed by the hon. Minister of Health in having a ministry provide direction in policy formulation and have an organ of implementation which can be under the control of the ministry. Perhaps, that question must be considered carefully in the Ministry of Works and Supply in relation to those organs that are dealing with the road sector. There is a danger that these institutions can be bigger than the ministry responsible for supervising them.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: In the end, we have too much technical languages being used. You ask a question and somebody tells you that this survey and question 5, 7 and 8 are all very technical. The question is that if you release US$17 million, as some contractor is claiming on a 120 kilometre road for tarring, and there is not even an inch of tar, what technical language can explain the disappointment of a people as they expect the Government to perform? There is nothing you can say that will convince them unless they see the works on the ground.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Sir, I am very happy that we have two good hon. Ministers in the Ministry of Works and Supply. Really, I thank you, hon. Colleagues. The hon. Minister of Works and Supply together with his Deputy have been have been very participatory. Not only have you gone out…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tetamashimba indicated assent.

Dr Kalumba: … but you have called individuals, stakeholders and hon. Members of Parliament to your offices to be part to the issues relating to their roads and I have listened to you. I, therefore, want to plead that in this effort, you need the help of your colleagues at the Treasury. No major trunk road was ever built solely out of our local revenue.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, perhaps, this is one area where external borrowing for road construction may be legitimate.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Sir, the major roads that we have seen done and that are being done now are all under external funding. Where your roads read ‘from local revenue’, keeping wondering and waiting for ever and ever, Amen.


Dr. Kalumba: Mr Speaker, one time, I spoke to the hon. Minister and told him that in the little village where I come, there is one road which is very important. The hon. Minister said that but how many vehicles go to your primitive little Chienge dot com?


Dr Kalumba: Sir, I said that they may be invisible...


Dr Kalumba: ... but one day, you will be surprised that in this little place, you may find millions of tonnes of high grade copper.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Sir, it is there and we are dying to see investment in our area. Help us.

Mr Minister, I implore you, really, I am on my knees, you should allow the potential that exists in the entire Chienge, Nchelenge and Kaputa districts to be exploited. We want to add value to Zambia, not just the dot coms, but real value.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! I see ten hon. Members who wish to contribute to debate on this very popular motion and yet, I do not hear very radical differences in the way you are expressing your views on it. It would be a good idea to hear one hon. Member from this end.

Mr Speaker pointed to the Opposition side.

Mr Speaker: Then, let us hear from one or two contributions from the Executive – meaning those who actually do the work.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for affording me the opportunity to add value to this debate. As you know, Sir, I always come up with new ideas.


Mr Hachipuka: Mr Speaker, this is a very interesting motion because for a very long time, I advocated the possibility of allocating funds with the view to completing single roads.

At one time in this House, I was quoted as saying that I would not mind giving up the vote on the Chitongo/Choma Road if only it would help complete a road that would add value and so that Zambia can benefit.

Sir, having stated that at that time and, indeed, as I speak now, I realise the mix-up and the inadequacy of the motion.

Sir, the point, which I want to bring forward is that the measurement of governance and the measurement of effective management is read in the quality of the product. This Government has allowed the Civil Service to run away and they are unable to effectively manage the Civil Service.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: How is it possible that a contract is awarded by the Ministry of Works and Supply or any department in this Government if they do not have the technocrats to ensure that the quality of the product which they are paying for is in accordance with the contract?

Mr Speaker, during my time as Managing Director of Zambia Railways or, indeed, as Director of Finance at ZCCM, we had proper technically qualified people to ensure that if you wanted to buy a bicycle, they would design it and put specifications on what quality of bicycle you must buy depending on the person you are buying it for.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear! Quality!

Mr Hachipuka: How is it possible that contracts are awarded and contractors are qualified? How is it possible? If I may ask Hon. Mooya, through the Hon. Mr Speaker, during his time at the Ministry of Works and Supply, how was it possible to award a contract to a contractor who was unable to perform under that contract? Where are the technocrats who are supposed to determine that such a contractor is inadequate and cannot perform this function?


Mr Hachipuka: How doe that happen? How is it possible that a completion certificate is produced by a contractor and is handed to the ministry for approval and payments?

Mr Mtonga: Shame!

Mr Hachipuka: And the technocrats are not able to depict that what is on the certificate and at the site does not meet the specification. How is that possible? During my time as a manager, I cannot envisage that happening. How is it possible that K4.5 billion for the Mbesuma Road was paid to a contractor who has done nothing on that road? How did that money leave the Treasury?

Mr Mtonga: Zoona! Tell them!

Hon. Opposition Member: Nichekeleko!

Mr Hachipuka: Mr Speaker, we have serious problems.

President Mwanawasa is the only one who sings about corruption, but I have not heard any of these hon. Ministers talk about it in their speeches.

Mr Mtonga: Zoona! No!

Mr Hachipuka: I have not heard any of these hon. Ministers talk about AIDS in their speeches when they go round.


Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Mr Hachipuka: Only the President talks about the issue of AIDS and corruption, in his speech, but these never talk about these matters.

Mr Hachipuka pointed at the Government Bench.


Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: That one talks about cattle re-stocking!


Mr Hachipuka: Mr Speaker, if I may ask, why is there a problem and yet you are the managers? Sir, these people do not know the powers that they have, through you, Mr Speaker. They do not know the powers that they have. You must utilise your powers. You were elected by the people and you employ civil servants and technocrats. You do not have to be technically qualified to know that this road has not been worked on to satisfactorily. Why should money leave the Treasury or your bank accounts to pay the people? How is it that people are given contracts even though their performance is inadequate, they are incompetent and incapable? Why do they not have a data bank to determine which contractor can do what?

Mr Mtonga: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: Mr Speaker, this is the new point I was saying I will make.


Mr Hachipuka: Sir, I wish my colleagues would recognise the fact that for every K4.5 billion that we spend on work not done, it takes the country back many years.

Mr Mtonga: Zoona!


Mr Hachipuka: One day, you will leave Parliament. We are all on a conveyor belt. We become Members of Parliament; Ministers and move on. Other younger people will come forward. What is it that you are going to leave as a legacy?

Mr Speaker, through you, I implore my colleagues to seriously look into this issue. How is it possible that we go on like this? This Motion is straightforward. This Motion is trying to look at alternative approaches. I wish to point this out that even if we were to allocate the moneys proposed by my colleague in this Motion, nothing would be completed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: Because there is no addition of value. There is no payment for value.

Mr Mtonga: Zoona!

Mr Hachipuka: There is no equilibrium between what we are paying for and what the nation is receiving.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: Unless that issue is addressed, we will not get there. So, I urge and plead to my colleagues to appreciate that this is not a Motion that you cannot support.

I agree with the sentiments of the hon. Member of Parliament for Roan that “What will I tell my people when I go back, that our roads will not be done until the Roan roads are done?” The problem is not about allocation of funds, but about getting value of what you are paying for.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: I do not subscribe to changing the Government policy, but what I am asking this Government to do is ensure that they become an effective tool for leadership. They should play their role. They may not be there tomorrow, but they should leave a legacy of perfect and serious management.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Matero thinks she has a brand new point to offer. Let us hear that brand new point.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, while I am supporting the Motion, I think that we should look at two important issues. If we are going to achieve in building and completing the roads, we must disassociate politics from the roads.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: I know that each of us wants a road to be done every year in his/her constituency so that people may see that he/she has worked. As a result, roads are remaining half completed and, in the end, we will not achieve anything.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Secondly, this must start with us. We must have conviction. If we say that we must have the roads in the Luapula Province worked on and completed, and we all support Luapula, then we are going to make progress. We have got 100 other roads that are incomplete and so, we are not going to get anywhere. If the roads were planned for a K400 million at the end of six years, they will be planned for a billion and we will still not make progress.

Another point that I would like to make is that there must be accountability and engagement of serious contractors because at the end of the day, we are also interested on who gets on site. If we get people on site, we must make sure that they work on the road at the right time and with the planned for resources.

Mr Speaker, I do would not like to waste much time, but it is important that the roads are completed. We should have a plan to complete the works for the roads. Other people are patient. If we say, “why do you want to complete these roads, and yet my roads are not completed”, we will talk every year in this House and our impact will not be felt.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, I would like to start by thanking the mover and also the seconder of this Motion for having taken time to research so that they bring out some cardinal points that are worth talking about.

Before I go to my written speech, I would like to attend to some of the anxieties that have been shown by the main speakers on this issue.

I would like to start with Hon. Hachipuka who questioned the issue of technically qualified people. I would like to assure this House that all the people who have been employed in these agencies are all very technically qualified. The minimum qualification for almost all of them, apart from sweepers, is a degree or an equivalent. Most of them are Master’s degree holders. Those who do not have a Master’s degree are pursuing it. Most of these people are degree holders or have an equivalent. In most cases, these people are very experienced. They have had a lot of exposure to the works that they are expected to do. So then, where is the problem in awarding contracts?

Mr Speaker, tenders are floated for people to bid and at the beginning, everything looks normal. The people who bid have the capacity to do the works.  Most of them are known and they have the equipment and the knowledge. But somewhere somehow, things do go wrong. In most cases, things go wrong in two ways, depending on what type of contract or tender you give a person. In certain cases, the tender given out is one where the person who will get the contract shows that he or she has capacity to carryout the works with a certain payment and some tenders require that you have to pay. Now depending on how you handle these two facets, you can, at the beginning, give someone an advance payment that allows him to mobilise and start the works. However, there is also a situation where one is given advance payment, but fails to mobilise the manpower and equipment because he takes the money to other projects that are unrelated to the project for which he/she was paid. In this case the works for that contract will be stuck.

Mr Speaker, the problem is not at the beginning, but after the work has started. It is not because the contractors are not qualified or do not have the capacity that contracts are not honoured to the letter. Most of these people have the capacity and qualified people whom they work with. I have met some workers for these contractors who are experienced in Structural Engineering. Some of them are Master’s Degree holders who have done great works, but you find that somewhere, the contractor is stuck and when you ask them why they are stuck, they simply say, they do not have money. But when you ask them on the advance payment we provided, they will not give an answer.

Mr Speaker, the truth also remains that at times, the money does not flow as it is supposed to. In some cases, we are late in paying and while the contract is supposed to build enough capacity to continue with the works, the contractor decides to stop and wait for payment which, in some cases, does not come. Therefore, it is not a question of not awarding the contract to the right people because the people who deal with these jobs come up with the right contractor.

Mr Speaker, on the payments, the way the contractors are structured is such that once a contractor raises a certificate, it is approved by a consultant and that automatically allows payment to be made and so the consultancy is where the problem is. If the consultant approves the certificate raised by the contractor, then by contract, the contractor must be paid.

Mr Speaker, I will now explain the way the system works. The contractor raises the certificate then it goes to the consultant who approves it. It then comes to the RDA who looks at what the consultant has submitted. If it is all right, it is passed on to the National Roads Fund Agency that then must pay for that certificate. Therefore, the issue of payment comes after the consultant has signed the certificate. After signing, no one in the remaining chain group can stop that payment. That is how the contract is structured.


Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am explaining how these things work. The problem is at the consultancy stage. I wish to commend Hon. Hachipuka for speaking well. If all of us could speak the way he spoke, the people out there would know that no one will tolerate this kind of behaviour anymore. The problem is that when the road is being rehabilitated in Hon. Hachipuka’s area, he only wants me to go and talk about that road to those people, but he does not see it necessary to take this contractor to task and explain to him that he will not tolerate any poor performance. He thinks it has to be I to take the contractor to task because I come from the Ministry of Works and Supply. This is not correct because all of us must take it up and show responsibility by expressing our views on what is happening so that the people are on alert all the time. Therefore, Sir, I would like to commend Hon. Hachipuka for having expressed such a strong opinion.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Dr Kalumba talked about funding arrangements. I have explained this issue partially. The National Roads Fund Agency is the only one that is given the mandate to mobilise money. When the National Roads Fund Agency does not mobilise money, the Road Development Agency cannot implement any projects. The RDA can only implement a project if the National Roads Fund Agency mobilises the required funds. Therefore, all the funds that are used by the RDA have to come through the National Roads Fund Agency. In short, the National Roads Fund Agency informs the Road Development Agency that they have so much money for the project and that is when the RDA starts the works on the project. There is this co-ordination where the Road Development Agency has to remind the National Roads Fund Agency that they need money for the projects. When the RDA gets money, that is when these projects are initiated. The Road Development Agency cannot initiate a project where there is no money. It is not possible.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Kambwili talked about supporting both the old and new projects. Obviously that is a good position, but the reality is that the money available cannot support both the old and the new projects. What hon. Members must understand here, especially Hon. Kambwili is that once we start rehabilitating a road, its works will not be completed and it will become one of the old projects which will continue endlessly. Therefore, it is important to realise that this is one country. We must all see a project started and completed. That will make us all proud because there will be something to show.

Mr Speaker, what Hon. Kambwili was suggesting is what has been happening. We have seen the number of projects increasing, but getting nowhere. If we put these small amounts of money together and target one project, we would complete the project and that is the direction the hon. Member who moved the Motion was heading to.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Mtonga talked about the manner the roads are being worked on and I agree with him. However, it is important to realise two things that these roads are made to a certain specification. Some specifications even us know are not the best, but we do that according to the money that is available so that temporarily, we take away the suffering that certain people in that area are going experiencing.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I will briefly speak about poor planning. I do not understand how this came about. You allowed us as parliamentarians to hold a workshop at which the annual work plan for 2006 as well as 2007 was made available to all the Members of Parliament. The annual work plan for 2007 was tailored according to the money that has been given. I really do not understand where poor planning comes in.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to talk about the players in the construction industry. I think that point came out very clearly. I am sure, hon. Mooya is aware that we have been talking about how strict we are going to supervise this industry. If, indeed, there are bad players in this industry, we are going to root them out and blacklist them. This is an issue we do not hide at all.

Mr Speaker, I would like to say that the issue of prioritising the roads is very important. All of us must understand that for people who come from the Northern, North/Western and Copperbelt provinces, the first major road they use is Lusaka/Kabwe. So, we must think in that line that when we start working on trunk routes we should now go to main roads then district roads and, finally, feeder roads.

What I want to say here is that the money allocation for these roads is different. You will find that, for example, this yea we only have something like K318 billion for trunk, main and districts roads. This money is not enough and can only do 165km or so of tarred roads. The portion from Kasempa to Kabompo is about 229 km so the money is not even enough to finish that section of the road in one year. If we split it the way we have been splitting the money, we are not going to finish these roads for the next six years. The earliest we can finish the Kasama/Luwingu Road is six years, if we continue giving them K20 billion per year. It is important that we really look at how we schedule these roads and start finishing roads one at a time or two roads in a year. I think that is what we wanted or may be that is what the mover wanted to put forward.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: With these words, I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Malole may wind up his motion. He is not in the House. Quite clearly the motion cannot proceed.




The Vice-President (Mr R. Banda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now resolve into Committee of Supply.

Mr Speaker, I am a bearer of three messages from His Excellency the President recommending this motion for favourable consideration by this House. I now lay the recommendations on the Table of the House.

Mr Speaker, it is necessary to move this motion at this stage to enable the House deal with the following:

(a) The Presidential Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2007

(b) The Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2007; and

(c) The Constitutional Offices Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2007

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I am grateful to the hon. Members of Parliament for their unanimous support.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.




The Chairperson (Mrs Nalumango): Hon. Members, before we proceed with business in the Committee of Supply, I would like to remind the Committee that in accordance with the customs and traditions of the House, hon. Members are not supposed to debate themselves. I, therefore, expect no debate on the motions to be moved in the Committee of Supply by His Honour the Vice-President.

Thank you.


The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend Presidential Emoluments Act so as to increase the salary and gratuity payable to the holder of the Office of President and that the Bill to give effect to this be introduced accordingly.

Madam Chairperson, hon. Members of this House may wish to know that the salary of the Head of State was last reviewed in 2005, in view of the recent general salary increase awarded to workers in the public service. It is opportune and fair that the Republican President also be considered accordingly.

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank all hon. Members of this House for their unanimous support.

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to.


The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices (Emoluments) Act, so as to increase the salaries payable to holders of the offices of Vice-President, Speaker, Deputy Speaker, Cabinet Minister, Leader of the Opposition, Deputy Minister and Private Members of the National Assembly and that a Bill to give effect to this, be introduced accordingly.

Madam, the reasons for moving this motion are clear to all hon. Members. In any case, these reasons have been discussed fully in the appropriate Committee of this House.

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I wish to sincerely thank all hon. Members of this august House for their unanimous support.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.



The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move that it is expedient to amend the Constitutional Offices (Emoluments) Act, so as to increase the salaries payable to holders of Constitutional Offices and that the Bill to effect to this, be introduced accordingly.

Madam, the Constitutional Office holders have heavy responsibilities in society which should be commensurate with the remuneration paid to them. The adjustment that has been made to the salaries of Public Service office holders requires that we do the same for the Constitutional Office holders. This is a straightforward motion.

Madam Chairperson, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Madam Chairperson, I am grateful to the House for the unanimous support on this motion.

I thank you, Madam.

Question put and agreed to.



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Resolutions reported.

Reports adopted.

Question put and agreed to and Mr Speaker appointed the Vice-President to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bills to give effect to the resolutions of the Committee of Ways and Means.




The following Bills were read the first time:

The Presidential (Emoluments) Bill, 2007

The Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices (Emoluments) (Amendment) Bill, 2007

The Constitutional Offices (Emoluments) (Amendment) Bill, 2007

Second Reading on Thursday, 19th July, 2007.




The Vice-President (Mr R. Banda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1900 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 19th July, 2007