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Debates- 15th January, 2008
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY
Tuesday, 15th January, 2008
The House met at 1430 hours
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
______
ANNOUNCEMENTS
DEATH OF HON. HENRY J. MTONGA, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR KANYAMA CONSTITUENCY
Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to acquaint the House with a fact which is already sadly known that the House lost one of its Members, namely, Mr Henry J. Mtonga, Member of Parliament for Kanyama Parliamentary Constituency, who passed away on Friday, 30th November, 2007, in South Africa.
The late Mr Henry J. Mtonga, MP was buried in Lundazi on Thursday, 6th December, 2007. The House was represented at the burial by the following:
1. Hon. M. D. Lungu, MP, Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House (Leader of the Delegation);
2. Mrs J. C. Mumbi, MP;
3. Mrs F. B. Sinyangwe, MP;
4. Ms J. Kapata, MP;
5. Dr P. D. Machungwa, MP;
6. Mr E. M. Hachipuka, MP;
7. Reverend G. Z. Nyirongo, MP;
8. Mr B. Imenda, MP;
9. Mr M. Muteteka, MP;
10. Mr E. Kasoko, MP
11. Mr T. Kamanga, Assistant Project Co-ordinator – Secretary to the Delegation; and
12. Mr M. Banda, Assistant Chief Parliamentary Security Officer.
I conveyed the condolences of the House to the bereaved family.
I now request the House to rise and observe a minute of silence in honour of the memory of the late Hon. Henry J. Mtonga, MP.
Hon. Members of Parliament stood in silence for one minute.
Mr Speaker: Thank you.
Mr Speaker: Let me brief our new hon. Members of Parliament. Had the hon. Member passed on when the House was in session, His Honour the Vice-President would have moved a Motion which would have been debated in this House extolling the contributions of the hon. deceased Member. When that happens, normally, there is no vote taken, but the Motion is adopted without dissent.
Thank you.
DISRUPTION OF PARLIAMENT RADIO BROADCASTING TO OTHER AREAS
Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that there is a technical fault on the transmission equipment we are using for Parliament Radio which has resulted in limited transmission of live broadcasts only to Lusaka City and surrounding areas of up to a 150 kilometre radius.
The rest of our normal coverage area, that is Kapiri-Mposhi to Kitwe and Mazabuka to Livingstone are not able to receive our live radio broadcast except via internet radio.
Our technical team is doing everything possible to ensure that the fault is rectified in the shortest time possible. Hon. Members will be informed accordingly once transmission is resumed.
We regret the inconvenience the break in transmission will cause to our esteemed listeners.
Thank you.
STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE
Mr Speaker: I wish to inform the House that, in accordance with the provisions of the Standing Orders, the following Members have been appointed to constitute the Standing Orders Committee:
The Hon. Mr Speaker (Chairperson);
The Hon. Rupiah Banda, MP, the Vice-President;
The Hon. P. N. Magande, MP, Minister of Finance and National Planning;
The Hon. M. I. Mulongoti; Chief Whip;
Mr D. Matongo, MP
Ms E. N. Imbwae, MP;
Mrs F. B. Sinyangwe, MP; and
Mr H. Mwanza, MP.
Thank you.
Mr Speaker: May His Honour the Vice-President indicate the Business of the House for this week.
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to indicate the Business of the House. Before I give the Business of the House for this week, let me begin by formally welcoming back all hon. Members of Parliament to the Second Session of the Tenth National Assembly and, in particular, to the first meeting of the session.
Sir, it is my sincere hope that members had a good break and have now come back fresh and eager to debate, dissect and analyse, in detail, the President’s Address to this House and of course, deliberate on the 2008 National Budget to foster the much-needed national development. I hope that hon. Members are ready for a heavy workload this year.
Sir, having said that, let me now give the House some idea of the business it will consider this week. As indicated on the Order Paper, the Business of the House, today, will consider Questions and thereafter, focus on the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Address which was delivered to this House on Friday, 11th January, 2008.
Mr Speaker, tomorrow, Wednesday, 16th January, 2008, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue with the debate on the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Address.
Sir, on Thursday, 17th January, 2008, the debate on the Motion of Thanks will continue. This, however, will be preceded by Questions for Oral Answer, if there will be any.
Sir, on Friday, 18th January, 2008, the Business of the House will commence with the Vice-President’s Question Time. This will be followed by Questions, if there will be any. The House will then continue with the debate on the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Address.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
_______{mospagebreak}
QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER
MEMBERSHIP OF LIUWA NATIONAL PARK BOARD
1. Mr Imasiku (Liuwa) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:
(a) how many members constituted the Directorate of the Liuwa National Park Board;
(b) what the names of the members at (a) above were;
(c) how many of the members at (a) above were from Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency; and
(d) whether there were any plans to review the current membership.
The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Tembo): Mr Speaker, seven members constitute the Board of Directors for African Parks, which in the question, has been referred to as Liuwa National Park Board.
Sir, the names of the members are as follows:
(i) Hon. Charles Lubasi Milupi, MP, who represents the Barotse Royal Establishment (BRE) and is the Chairperson of the board;
(ii) Mr R. K. Muteto (Zambian), representing the Barotse Royal Establishment;
(iii) Mr Valentine Chitalu (Zambian), representing African Parks;
(iv) Mr Jose Kalpers (Belgian), appointed by African Parks;
(v) Mr Edwin Matokwani (Zambian), representing the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA);
(vi) Mr Vincent Kamuti (Zambian), an employee of African Parks; and
(vii) Mr Tom Turner (South African), an employee of African Parks.
Sir, none of the members above are from Liuwa Parliamentary Constituency.
Mr Speaker, the House may wish to note that membership to the boards is permanent and only changes when a member resigns or dies. Therefore, there are no plans to review the current membership of the Board of Directors for the African Parks.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, do we not see that the people of Liuwa are being disadvantaged by not having a member from that constituency on the board since the resources of that area …
Mr Nsanda: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Nsanda: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Kamfinsa, Hon. Nyirenda, in order to continuously threaten me that the Speaker is going to deal with me since I never attended the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) …
Laughter
Mr Nsanda: … when you, Mr Speaker, or anybody from the National Assembly has never invited us to attend the NCC. I need your serious ruling, Sir.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Chimwemwe has raised a point of order to the effect that another hon. Member of Parliament is threatening him for performing implicitly what is considered his lawful activity by participating in the National Constitutional Conference. Although I have not heard the hon. Member being referred to threatening the hon. Member for Chimwemwe, I just want to give the general guidance that no hon. Member, or anybody else for that matter, should threaten an hon. Member of Parliament for performing his or her lawful functions as by law established.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Therefore, although this House may not necessarily pursue this matter by disciplining a member who is threatening another member, the member threatening the other must note that this country is governed under the rule of law and each one of the members here has full protection of the law. Accordingly, I wish to guide the hon. Member for Chimwemwe that if the member he is referring to persists in threatening and harassing him, he is free to report to the police …
Laughter
Mr Speaker: … for the necessary action to be taken.
The Hon. Member for Liuwa was raising a supplementary question, he may continue.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Imasiku: Mr Speaker, is it not to the advantage of the board to incorporate a member from Liuwa Constituency so that this member can be able to disseminate information to his people and even update the board?
The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Chilembo): Mr Speaker, hon. Members from rural constituencies are not disadvantaged in that the Barotse Royal Establishment represents the people in the community. Further, the members on the board representing the Barotse Royal Establishment are men of good credentials, one of them being the Induna, Hon Milupi.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chilembo: Sir, as regards whether they are disadvantaged or not, I have evidence that the community has not been disadvantaged in that a one by two classroom block has been constructed at Lukoko, four boats have donated for use at crossing points, the Kalabo Magistrates Court has been renovated, a land-cruiser has been donated to the Kalabo Zambia Police Force to on matters relating to security in the community and over 100 jobs have been created.
Mr Speaker, given such circumstances, it would be illogical to say that the community has been disadvantage. However, the hon. Member can look out for any vacancy in the meantime.
I thank you, Sir.
Laughter
Mr Kanyanyamina (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, Zambia is governed by the principle of democracy and I tend to worry on behalf of the people of Liuwa when it is said that board membership can only cease when a person dies or resigns. Where is the principle of democracy when this member is deemed unfit by the community?
The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, as much as there is a lot of feeling for the people of Liuwa, there is nothing much we can do because African Parks is a private company and that constitutes its own board.
I thank you, Sir.
Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, do the people of Liuwa take any part in choosing the board of directors for their so-called park?
Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I have already said that we have no say in the way the members of the board are chosen, because African Parks is a private company. However, African Parks was very kind to give us two positions for members from the Barotse Royal Establishment, namely Hon. Milupi and Mr Muteto.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, thank you very much and happy New Year. Is the hon. Minister not in a position to advise African Parks which is a private company that Zambia is a democratic country, therefore, issues of dynasty only apply to chiefs being in power until they die? For positions were people represent others, democracy should prevail. Is the hon. Minister not in a position to advise in order to ensure democracy so that when the members are not performing to their expectation, the people of Liuwa have a chance to bring someone else.
Hon Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, the agreement is between African Parks and ZAWA, on behalf of the Government. If we have problems with African Parks, we will deal with African Parks as an entity. We will not deal with individuals on the board. Therefore, it is not possible for us to have a say in matters, such as employment, relating to a private enterprise simply because Zambia pursues the doctrine of democracy.
Hon Members: Aah!
Mr Kaingu: In fact, I am aware that my friend, Hon. Machungwa is running a business and I do not think that he would want people to have a say in who he employs.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, the Liuwa Park brought a lot of debate before the Government signed the agreement. Why is it not proper for the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources to ensure that the people of Liuwa who are affected by the presence of African Parks are represented on the board?
Mr Kaingu: Mr Speaker, I do not see what Hon. Muntanga cannot understand. We are dealing with an entity. We are not dealing with individuals in that entity.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
ACADEMIC QUALIFICATIONS FOR DISTRICT COMMISSIONERS
2. Mr Kambwili (Roan) asked the Vice-President:
(a) what the academic qualifications of the District Commissioners in the following places were:
(i) Luanshya;
(ii) Mufulira;
(iii) Ndola;
(iv) Kitwe;
(v) Mpongwe;
(vi) Kalulushi;
(vii) Chingola;
(viii) Chililabombwe; and
(ix) Masaiti.
(b) when the District Commissioners at (a) above were appointed; and
(c) when the requirement for a first degree as a minimum qualification for
the post of District Commissioner came into effect.
The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Malwa): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the august House as follows:
Name District Academic Professional
Qualifications Qualifications
Mr Kapu Luanshya Form 5 Cert. in Management
George and Dev. Studies
Mr Dyford Mufulira Form 5 Cert. in Safety and
Muulwa Fire Prevention
Mrs Gladys Ndola Form 5 Marketing Kristafor Level II
Mr McDonald Kitwe Form 5 Diploma in
Mtine Management
Mr Michael Mpongwe Form 5 BA ED with Honours
Tandeo M ED with Honours
Mr Joshua Kalulushi Form 5 Cert. in Public
Mutisa Admin and
Management Studies
Mr Tobias Chingola Form 5 Diploma in Heavy
Maliti Duty Equipment
Mr Timothy Chililabombwe 6 GCE ‘O’ Bachelor of Arts
Musonda Levels Degree in Sociology
and Public Admin and
Secondary Teachers
Diploma
Mrs Joyce Masaiti Grade 12 Advanced Diploma
Mwanza Bwacha in Education
Nsama
Mrs Miniver (On suspension) Form 5 Diploma in
Miyanda Mutesa Mpongwe Child Management
Tshuma
Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that the required first degree as a minimum qualification for the post of District Commissioner has not yet been effected.
However, Hon. Members of this august House will appreciate that most of the District Commissioners have retired from very senior positions with rich Curriculum Vitaes. Some of them have been community leaders in various positions, either in the private or public sector. These are people who command respect from communities.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the Hon. Minister has not answered part (b) of the question. However, my follow up question is, …
Mr Tetamashimba: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to raise a point of order on the etiquette of Members of Parliament in the House.
Sir, on Friday, 11th January, 2008, His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. addressed the nation through this House. You have always guided us that when the Head of State is giving a key-note speech to the nation through this House, the Members of the House must pay attention and not disrupt the speech of His Excellency the President.
However, the Chief Whip of the Patriotic Front (PF), Hon. Kambwili, on more than two occasions, stated that what the President was speaking about was questionable and therefore did not believe in his statement.
Hon. PF Members: Yes!
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, that in itself, is against the guidelines …
Hon. PF Members: Aah!
Mr Tetamashimba: … that were given to this House, …
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Tetamashimba: … through a circular dated 9th January, 2008, from the Chief Whip to all Members of Parliament which stated as follows:
“Hon. Members are reminded of the following etiquette in relation to the Ceremonial State Opening of Parliament by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia.
1. In accordance with the traditions of the House in Zambia and all Commonwealth Parliaments, the President’s Address or the Address from the Throne is a solemn occasion which is expected to be heard in silence.
Mr Kambwili: It is not a House of Commons!
Mr Tetamashimba:
“This means that, when His Excellency the President is delivering his Address to the House, the practice is that there should be no interjections from Hon. Members. However, hon. Members may express their acknowledgement of the President’s pronouncements in the address in the traditional manner of saying, ‘hear, hear’.
Hon. Members are well aware that the President’s address is followed by a debate on the Motion of Thanks, during which they are at liberty to comment, commend, criticise or express any views that they may hold arising from the matters raised by the President in his address.
“I, therefore, wish to appeal to Hon. Members to refrain from making interjections during the address and reserve their comments for debate on the Motion of Thanks.
2. “Hon. Members are called upon to conduct themselves in a manner befitting the dignity of the House, particularly in respect of the various processions announced to the House.
“Hon. Members are not required to rise when the Judiciary and Mayoral Processions enter the Chamber and the Galleries, respectively. However, the Judiciary and Mayoral Processions should be received in silence with the decorum and dignity they portray.
“I earnestly appeal to hon. Members to observe the above guidelines.”
Hon. Mulongoti, MP
Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services and Chief Whip.
cc: The Leader of Government Business in the House
The Hon. Mr Speaker
The Hon. Madam Deputy Speaker
The Hon. Deputy Chairman of Committees
The Clerk of the National Assembly
All Whips
Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member of Parliament, who has taken the role of leader through an appointment of his president and party, in order to disrupt the speech of the President? After this event, we all went round the country. For example, I went to the Copperbelt the following day and the people were very happy with the speech, especially with regard to the mines.
Is the hon. Member in order to disrupt the speech of His Excellency the President? I seek your serious ruling, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: My concise ruling on the point of order raised by the Hon. Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Local Government and Housing is that, the matter of the interjections referred to in the point of order is already being looked into, …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: … especially that clear guidelines were given as to how this House is expected to behave when it meets, once a year, as Parliament of the Republic of Zambia, meaning when the Head of State is present with us.
Today, for instance, we meet as National Assembly. Accordingly, that day when we met as a Parliament of the Republic of Zambia, was not only a special day, but in the circular written to you by the Chief Whip, was referred to as a solemn occasion.
I emphasise that the matter is being looked into and the Chair will decide as to what course of action should be taken, depending on the findings by the authorities who are looking into it.
I cannot emphasise enough that this House should be well known in the way it conducts itself with the necessary dignity and decorum. We cannot emulate the poor examples of other jurisdictions to which we do not belong.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: They are free to deal with their affairs in accordance with their culture.
Hon. Member for Roan was raising a supplementary question to his main question, may he continue.
Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, before I was interrupted, I was saying that the President announced that with immediate effect, all District Commissioners (DCs) would require to have a minimum BA degree from a recognised university. From the list of all the DCs in Luanshya, only two have BA qualifications and one of them is actually acting. Is it, therefore, tenable to require DCs to have a minimum qualification of a BA degree?
Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, I have just answered this question. I told the House and Hon. Kambwili in particular, that the minimum qualifications that were proposed have not yet been effected. They will be effected when the responsible office authorises.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out when these qualifications are going to be effected because it has taken over four years now.
Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, you will recall that the serving DCs are on contract and we need to wait until their contracts expire before DCs with a minimum qualification of a BA degree are employed.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, …
Mr Malwa: On a point of order, Sir.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order! I have to emphasise that, this will be the last point of order. We have to make progress.
Hon. Opposition Member: Yes.
Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.
Mr Malwa: Thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me the opportunity to raise my point of order. The point of order is on the dignity of this House and the conduct of Members of Parliament in this House.
Mr Speaker, I will refer to The Post Newspapers of Friday 21st December, 2007 and Monday 7th January, 2008, in which a Member of Parliament for Chipili referred to some hon. Members of this House as follows:
(i) “The Members from PF that disagreed with the party line to participate in the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) …
Hon. Opposition Member interjected.
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Malwa: … were in fact, picked from taverns and bars …
Laughter
Mr Malwa: … and that they live in bars and taverns;
(ii) some of these Members of Parliament from PF were picked from the streets and have no homes;
(iii) that, the same Members of Parliament are drunkards; and
(iv) that, in fact, they are mad.”
Laughter
Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, when I look across, I do not see anyone fitting these descriptions. I, therefore, wonder whether this august House can have hon. Members fitting these descriptions. Is the hon. Member who made these remarks in order to lower the standards of the Members of Parliament popularly elected by the people and the dignity of this honourable institution, particularly that some of the Members that were referred to as drunkards and various descriptions were chosen by the NCC as their leaders. The name I have in mind is that of Hon. Faustina Sinyangwe.
Mr Speaker, I need your ruling.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister of Defence has raised a point of order which is based on a Newspaper article, referring, indeed, to a Member of Parliament, meaning a Member of this House. My ruling is that, if those qualifiers were raised in this House by a Member of Parliament on other fellow Members of Parliament, the Chair would have ruled adequately ...
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: … on such remarks. However, in view of the clear fact that the hon. Member referred to is alleged to have made those remarks outside the precinct of this House, the Chair leaves this to the Member so described to consider what action they may take.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Of course, within the law of the land, they may take no action, if they think what is alleged to have been said is of no substance or they may consider taking action if they wish or feel such action needs to be taken. In other words, that point of order is not procedural.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: It is not part of the procedures of this House. I emphasise, this is the last point of order. We have to make progress.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Member for Ndola Central was raising a supplementary question.
Mr Mushili: Mr Speaker, the Office of the Vice-President mentioned that some of the DCs had to complete their contracts. I wonder whether this includes the DCs for Masaiti, Ndola and Mufulira who were employed some two years ago, when, in fact, the President had already given the statement relating to contracts for DCs. What sort of contract was he referring to?
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, apart from the minimum degree qualifications required, in my response I mentioned that some of the DCs have had very rich Curriculum Vitaes.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Malwa: Some of them have been community leaders in various positions, either in the private or public sector. These people also command respect from communities.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, besides the hon. Member who has asked this question should also ask himself first whether he has a degree.
Laughter
Mr Malwa: There is a Parliamentary Handbook in which our qualifications are written. There are a few Members of Parliament who have degrees in here.
Laughter
Mr Malwa: Therefore, you cannot question the Presidential appointment, because DCs are appointed by the President who has powers to appoint.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
REHABILITATION OF FEEDER ROADS
3. Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi) asked the Minister of Defence when the engineering squadrons of the Zambia Army and the Zambia National Service would be used to rehabilitate feeder roads in Zambia’s districts.
The Deputy Minister of Defence (Mr Akakandelwa): Mr Speaker, currently, the Zambia Army is not able to take up this task due to a lack of equipment. However, the Zambia National Service is ready to take up the task of rehabilitating feeder roads in some of Zambia’s districts provided the projects are financed.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, from what the hon. Minister has said, I would like to find out why the Government cannot empower the Zambia Army by equipping it so that it does a good job. What is the Zambia Army Engineering Squadron currently doing when Zambia is at peace?
Mr Akakandelwa: Mr Speaker, the Zambia Army is adequately equipped for its services. However, this House has been told on many occasions that there is equipment for road rehabilitation and maintenance which has been ordered and will be distributed to all the provinces. Therefore, this question will be adequately addressed.
I thank you, Sir.
Miss Mumbi (Munali): Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Minister correctly, he mentioned the engineering squadron and I think he was referring to the one in Mufulira, which has no equipment. I would like him to confirm if the soldiers in Mufulira, who were employed specifically to do the engineering work of the Zambia Army, are getting free tax-payers’ money without doing their job.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, the engineering squadron which is in Mufulira is specifically there to undertake engineering work of a security or military nature. The issue that has been raised of road repairing machinery is under the Zambia National Service. What the hon. Minister meant was that, at the moment, we have certain facilities under the Zambia National Service that can be accessed under some kind of payment. The Zambia Army will continue to play its meaningful role in national development. You will recall that last year, when one bridge collapsed, the Zambia National Service was called in because that was a strategic decision.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister assure this House that as we begin to discuss the Budget, the inadequacy of the Zambia Army shall be addressed.
Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, I think we are beginning to split hairs here.
Laughter
Mr Mpombo: The Zambia Army Engineering Division is properly equipped for the specific function that it performs, but road repair works are done by the Zambia National Service. Therefore, if a business arrangement is made with Zambia National Service, it will readily make the machinery available at a cost.
I thank you, Sir.
RETRAINING AND AMALGAMATION OF ZAMBIA ARMY, ZAMBIA AIR FORCE AND ZAMBIA NATIONAL SERVICE
4. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Vice-President whether the Government had any plans to retrain and amalgamate the existing security wings, namely, the Zambia Army, the Zambia Air Force and the Zambia National Service into one strong territorial police force to effectively police the nation now that there are no more liberation and civil wars in Southern Africa which necessitated a large standing army.
The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Malwa): Mr Speaker, the Government has no plans to retrain and amalgamate the existing security wings, namely the Zambia Army, the Zambia Air Force and the Zambia National Service into one strong territorial police force.
The Zambia Police Service is, in fact, doing a good job of maintaining law and order countrywide. As a matter of fact, the crime rate has reduced as a result of these efforts.
However, the Defence Force can provide aid to civil authorities if there is an emergency or when the nation is under a ‘State of Emergency’. Clearly, presently, our country is not in such a state and our gallant Police Force is on top of things in respect to fighting the existing levels of crime.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, we are aware that the Police Force is short of 13,000 officers to properly police the country. We were told that they can only manage if they are able to employ 1500 officers a year, which will take eight years. Therefore, would the police or the Ministry of Home Affairs look at this proposition in order to police this country properly without a shortfall.
The Vice-President (Mr R. Banda): Mr Speaker, the proposition that the hon. Member for Kalomo is making, namely the recruitment of additional members of the Zambia Police Force is being addressed separately.
I thank you, Sir.
MINERAL PROSPECTING LICENCES ISSUED AS OF 31ST AUGUST, 2007
5. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:
(a) how many companies in Zambia were issued with mineral prospecting licences as of 31st August, 2007; and
(b) how many of the companies at (a) above were local.
The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, in response to hon. D. Mwila’s question, …
The Vice-President crossed the Floor.
Laughter
Mr Nkhata: … in 2007, a total of sixteen companies were issued with mineral prospecting licences as of 31st August. The applications which were processed were those that were received before the suspension of receipt of new applications was put into effect for the period 1st July to 31st December, 2007, in order to introduce a computerised cadastral system.
As regards part (b) of the question, the House may wish to note that out of the sixteen companies in (a) above, thirteen are Zambian owned and three are foreign-owned companies.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, from the sixteen companies that the hon. Minister has mentioned, how many have developed the areas?
Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the prospective licence is issued for the total lifespan of the prospecting licence, which is seven years. These licences were issued in 2007. So, they are less than one year old. Therefore, we cannot tell whether the companies have not followed the procedures to do the exploration work. We will only find out two years from now for when they come for subsequent renewals for another two years. At that point, we will be demanding to know what they have done and whether they have followed the conditions of the title licences or not.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, for these companies that have been given prospecting licences, does the ministry have a requirement that the prospecting companies are introduced to the local leadership such as chiefs so that they know their presence in the areas unlike what is happening at the moment. For instance, in Mwense, a certain company is prospecting without the local leadership’s knowledge about its existence. They are hauling a lot of copper in the name of prospecting.
Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker that is a very serious concern. We do request the licence holders to bring evidence that the local traditional authority has concerted to them all the land. We require them to bring a letter from the local chief or traditional authority. The second thing that we require of them is that when they go to the areas to begin their work, they must formally announce their presence by presenting themselves to the local authorities (chiefs and the Government departments) concerned to announce that they are in the areas and the reasons they are there and what they are looking for to minimize potential dispute or misunderstanding between the prospecting companies and local authorities.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister, thirteen local prospecting licences and three foreign prospecting licences have been issued, I would like to find out from him the size of area given to the thirteen local prospecting licences as compared to the area given for the three prospecting licences to the foreign-owned companies.
Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, there is no discrimination in terms of area size for both Zambians and non Zambians. However, we are thinking along the lines that we should have gaps on area sizes so that as much land is available to as many applicants as possible.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated that prospecting licences can only be given for a period of seven years. I would like to find out whether the prospecting licence which expired after seven years has been extended or whether they have re-applied to have that licence extended while the law provides that the licence will only run for seven years.
Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the law is very clear. No prospecting licence is valid for more than seven years. By law, all licences that are beyond seven years are invalid and that is the position.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, from the answer given by the hon. Minister regarding the expiry of prospecting licences for seven years, how many of such prospecting licences have so far expired and have been allocated to other potential investors?
Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I do not have that answer immediately, but I can assure the hon. Member that we are carrying out an exercise and will give an indication as to how many licencees have breached this condition and how many will be revoked. From there, we will write to Zambians to apply for those that have been revoked.
I want to emphasise that the licences that will be revoked as a result of going beyond the tenure of seven years, will be issued to Zambian nationals.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like find out what the definition of the term ‘local’ is in this context because the hon. Minister is referring to a company that has registered in Zambia or a company that has Zambian directors.
Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the way we understand the term ‘local’ is that the company in question must be owned by Zambian directors.
I thank you, Sir.
CONSTRUCTION OF MULWA CLINIC
6. Ms Limata (Luampa) asked the Minister of Health:
(a) how much money the Ministry had spent on the construction of Mulwa Clinic in Luampa Parliamentary Constituency;
(b) when the project begun and when it would be completed;
(c) who the contractor of the project was;
(d) what capacity of the clinic was; and
(e) whether the project included construction of a mother’s shelter.
The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Puma): Mr Speaker, the provincial administration allocated K47,500,000 to the project.
The project started in November, 2006. According to the target within the funding allocated, the clinic was constructed up to lintel level. This was completed in April, 2007. However, the following targets need to be met before it is opened.
(i) completion of the health post structure;
(ii) construction of the staff house with a single VIP;
(iii) construction of double VIP toilets for patients;
(iv) drilling of bore hole;
(v) provision of equipment and furniture;
(vi) setting up communication mechanism; and
(vii) the provision of an incinerator and a construction of block lined solid waste disposal pit.
The contractor who was given this contract was Litemo Contractors Limited and Suppliers of General Hardware of Kaoma.
As to the capacity of the clinic, the health post will have a waiting room, observation room, dispensing room, treatment room and screening and maternal child health rooms. It will further have one staff house and a double VIP toilet for patients.
On the issue of construction of a mother’s shelter, the initial project guidelines did not include the construction of the mother’s shelter.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Limata: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether or not he has gone to Luampa or Imoba Wards to see the clinic.
The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, I have been to Luampa, though not specifically to this clinic and the dissemination of information is through the district to the provinces where my deputy and I have not personally been, though we follow up the projects.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the duration of the contract is.
Dr Chituwo: Thank you Mr Speaker. I am not aware how long this contract was. It would appear, from the information we have been given, that that is where the contract ended and they are probably expecting more money.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
ZAMBIANS KILLED BY KARAVINAS IN NALOLO CONSTITUENCY
07. Mr Mwangala (Nalolo) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(a) how many Zambians had been murdered by hired gunmen in Silowana and Lyamakumba in Nalolo Parliamentary Constituency and what their names were.
(b) whether police investigations into the murdered people were carried out; and
(c) whether those responsible for the murders at (a) above had been arrested.
The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Bonshe): Mr Speaker, five Zambians were murdered by hired gunmen in Silowana and Lyamakumba wards in Nalolo Parliamentary Constituency.
Police investigations were carried out in all the reported cases and two suspects have since been arrested.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwangala: Mr Speaker, I would like to know whether or not the hon. Minister is aware that no police action ever took place in all these cases, resulting in most of them being buried at their homes without police jurisdiction?
The Minister of Home Affairs (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Mr Speaker, police action was taken, suspects were arrested and investigations will continue until they appear in court.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Nalolo has been consistently raising the issue of Karavinas in his area. Should the hon. Minister not have taken steps to ensure that the hon. Member of Parliament is helped to come to a conclusion over the matter of the hired killers in Nalolo?
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, my Ministry is more than willing to help the hon. Member of Parliament. We have carried out investigations on this issue and now the level of Karavina operations in his area has reduced considerably. Besides, as hon. Member of Parliament he has access to the police command within his constituency.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
INFRASTRUCTURE DEVELOPMENT AT KATIBUNGA HIGH SCHOOL
08. Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Education when infrastructure at Katibunga High School in Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency, which was accommodated in structures for a primary school would be improved.
The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, according to the 2008 District Plan, a one by three classroom block and a science laboratory would be constructed at the school in 2008.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
WORKERS REGISTERED WITH THE WORKERS’ COMPENSATION FUND CONTROL BOARD
09. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:
(a) how many workers were registered with the Worker’s Compensation Fund Control Board;
(b) how many workers had been involved in accidents from 2002 to-date and how many had claimed compensation from the Board since then;
(c) how much was paid to the workers who were involved in accidents in the period above; and
(d) at what interest rate workers’ contributions were calculated out annually.
The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Liato): Mr Speaker, the Workers’ Compensation Act No. 10 of 1999 provides for the registration of employers and not individual workers. By 1st August, 2007, the Fund had registered 8,606 employers.
From 2002 to-date, 5,138 employees were involved in accidents. This means that 5,138 employees claimed compensation from the Board, since the accident reporting form that is filled in is in itself a compensation claim form.
However, out of this figure, 5,048 workers were actually paid, leaving a balance of ninety unsuccessful claims. The unsuccessful claims were due to the following:
(i) some claimants had contracted respiratory infections, which were not due to silica in the mines as provided for in the claim procedures;
(ii) some claims were not paid due to the claimants’ own negligence i.e. failure to follow procedures; and
(iii) some were due to falsified claims.
A sum of K13, 320, 518,306.00 was paid out to workers who were involved in accidents during the period under review.
Workers do not directly contribute to the Worker’s Compensation Fund. Instead, there is what we call a non-contributory scheme. The compensation for the workers is covered by the employers’ contribution called assessments.
Employers’ assessments are based on the type of industry and the risk associated with that type of industry, ranging from a rate of 2.82 per cent of assessed incomes for the industries with low risk such as education and banks to a rate of 6.93 percent of assessed incomes for the industries with higher risk service such as mining and quarrying.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why the Board does not return the money to the employer who remits funds to the Funds Control Board if no accident occurs?
Hon. Members: Insurance!
The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Mukuma): Mr Speaker, the Workers’ Compensation Fund acts as insurance for the workers. Therefore, whatever has been paid does not go back to the employer if no accident occurs.
I thank you, Sir.
Mrs Mumbi (Munali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if construction companies that are mushrooming in our country are being compelled to contribute to the Workers’ Compensation Fund. I have in mind construction companies which take long to finish their contracts. For example, the contractors at the University of Zambia and those who are constructing the Auditor-General’s Office? Are they being compelled to make contributions to the Workers’ Compensation Fund if they are paying K150,000 to our Zambian workers?
Hon. Members: Auditor-General!
Mr Mukuma: Mr Speaker, the ideal situation is that every employer must contribute to the Workers’ Compensation Fund to cover their employees. However, due to capacity inadequacies in the Ministry, some of them have not started contributing to the Workers’ Compensation Fund. I believe that with the amount of capacity that we have built in the Ministry of Labour and Social Security, this year, we will vigorously start inspecting all companies to ensure that they make contributions.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, we have been told that ninety applications were unsuccessful and that some of these were a result of falsification while others were due to failure to follow procedure. I would like to find out whether those who failed to follow procedure were guided so that they could access their compensation. Where they guided by the workers at the Workers’ Compensation Fund?
Mr Mukuma: Mr Speaker, yes, those who do not complete the forms correctly are guided. In fact, I must say that the Workers’ Compensation Board does carryout some sensitisation programmes with various organisations to ensure that their workers, first of all, know their rights and secondly, know how to claim for their rights.
I thank you, Sir.
REFURBISHMENT OF LUBWA HOSPITAL IN CHINSALI CONSTITUENCY
10. Mr Mulenga (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Health:
(a) when the collapsed male ward at Lubwa Hospital in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency would be rebuilt; and
(b) when the Government would replace the stolen water pump at the above hospital.
Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House as follows:
(a) the Ministry of Health is aware of the collapsed ward at Lubwa Hospital. The Chinsali Health Office has prepared a Capital Investment Plan within which they have prioritised the refurbishment of the male ward to be undertaken within the third quarter of 2008, should the necessary funds be made available; and
(b) the District Health Office has procured a water pump and is awaiting electricity connection by ZESCO for it to start functioning.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mulenga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that because of the loss of this pump, linen from the hospital is being washed in a stream where people draw water for drinking? I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how quickly the Ministry will replace the pump so that people do not die from drinking contaminated water from the stream.
Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, I stated in my response that the District Health Office has already procured a water pump that is awaiting connection. This shows that this issue is being addressed by the District Health Office.
I thank you, Sir.
INDUSTRIAL UNREST AT CHAMBISH UNREST
Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:
(a) what caused the industrial unrest at Chambishi in which some NFC Africa Mining Plc employees were shot at by an investor;
(b) whether the injured employees were compensated;
(c) what action the Government had taken against the investor at (a) above; and
(d) whether the use of firearms was now a permissible way of solving industrial disputes.
The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals (Mr M. B. Mwale): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform the House as follows:
(i) the industrial unrest at NFC African Mining Plc was as a result of different interpretations of the collective agreement. This resulted in varying methods of calculating the seven months’ back pay for lower grade employees and temporary workers by management. This created tension between the workers and management and culminated into a riot on the evening of 24th July, 2006;
(ii) Mr Speaker, the injured persons sued for civil compensation and the court is yet to determine the compensation. The case will come up for hearing in the court on 18th January, 2008;
(iii) when the shooting incident took place, the Zambia Police Force opened a docket on the Copperbelt and carried out investigations. A report of the investigations was submitted to the Director of Public Prosecutions who declined to prosecute; and
(iiii) the laws of Zambia do not allow the use of firearms, at all, in solving industrial disputes. According to the Industrial Relations Act of Zambia, all industrial disputes are supposed to be resolved amicably through dialogue without use of violence or abusive language.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out the health status of the employee who was shot at and the bullet is still in his spinal code. This man has been in pain and is just given painkillers everyday.
Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, what is important to know is that the matter is in court and the man has sued for compensation. The status of his health is within the competence of the hon. Member of Parliament to know.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kanyanyamina (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, I do not want to sound controversial, but we are talking about a person with a bullet imbedded in the spinal code. When will the Government help to remove the bullet from that person instead of relying on the courts?
Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, the man involved is receiving medical attention, but if there are problems relating to this, that can be looked at by the hon. Minister of Health. However, we know that he is receiving adequate medical attention.
I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}
COBALT THEFT UNDER ZCCM LIMITED
12. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:
(a) when the Government would publish the report on the theft of cobalt which occurred under ZCCM Limited from 1991 to 1993;
(b) who the culprits were and what measures the Government had taken to recover the money from the stolen cobalt;
(c) what the monetary value of the stolen cobalt was; and
(d) how many tonnes of cobalt were actually stolen.
Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that there has never been any proven case of theft of cobalt under ZCCM Limited from 1991 to 1993. However, there was a concern expressed by the Government on the cobalt sales under ZCCM Limited from 1998 to 1999 relating to a discrepancy between realised prices and international market prices.
Mr Speaker, a firm of Chartered Accountants namely De Chazal Du Mee was engaged to investigate the matter. The major finding was that the discrepancy in the prices lay in the sale to one major customer known as Metal Resources Group (MRG) at a heavy discount to the prevailing market prices. The heavy discount came about when ZCCM needed a pre-financing facility, which was essentially a loan extended to ZCCM by MRG. At that time too, there was no established case of theft of cobalt under ZCCM Limited.
Mr Speaker, as regards to part (b) of the question, since there has never been any proven theft of cobalt during the period under review, it follows, therefore, that there were no culprits, and hence no measures were taken by the Government to recover the money from the perceived stolen cobalt.
Sir, as to parts (c) and (d) of the question, since there was no proven theft of cobalt, neither monetary value nor tonnage could be determined.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has agreed with me that there has been concern from Zambians for the Government to have that report. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why it has taken seventeen years for the nation to be informed.
Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member should take comfort in the fact that, today, we have informed the nation what the true picture is regarding this problem.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Order! Just to guide the House on this matter. There was a report of the Auditor-General on this matter and this was followed by a report of the Public Accounts Committee of that time. Therefore, hon. Members are free to read the Action Taken Report by the Government of that time. That is how I would guide the House. Hon. Members should research and they will find the answers.
OPERATIONS AT SINUNGU, KAUNGU-LUETI, SHEKELA AND NASILIMWE LOCAL COURTS
13. Mr Mwangala (Nalolo) asked the Minister of Justice:
(a) when the following local courts in Nalolo Parliamentary Constituency would be operational:
(i) Sinungu;
(ii) Kaungu-Lueti;
(iii) Shekela; and
(iv) Nasilimwe; and
(b) why the local courts at (a) above were not operational.
The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda): Mr Speaker, the Sinungu, Kaunga-Lueti and Nasilimwe Local Courts are operational. The Shekela Local is not operational because the Local Court Justice passed away in May, 2007, but has since been replaced. Sittings will commence anytime. I think, by now, they might have commenced.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mwangala: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that five out of seven local courts in Nalolo are not operational up to now? Sinungu, Kaunga-Lueti and Nalolo Local Courts are not operational. When will justice be given to the people of Nalolo?
Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, the information I have from the Judiciary is that the courts are operational. If the hon. Member wants to know more about the courts, he is free to come to my office and we will take up the matter.
I thank you, Sir.
EXTENSION OF CELTEL NETWORK TO RURAL AREAS
14. Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport what measures the Government had taken to ensure that Celtel Zambia Limited extends its network to rural areas.
The Minister of Communications and Transport (Ms Sayifwanda): Mr Speaker, since the liberalisation of telecommunication which started in 1994, operators like Celtel, MTN and Cell Z, which are licensed by the Communications Authority, are free to provide services to all parts of this country. However, reaching rural areas requires heavy capital investment such as diesel generators, accompanied by a lot of fuel supplies due to a lack of electricity in most rural areas and towers, as they are part of the most vital components of telecommunications.
Sir, in view of the need to extend services to rural areas, the Government, through my ministry, has taken measures to ensure that service providers extend services to rural areas by sharing infrastructure in terms of microwave transmission, cell towers and buildings such as post offices, that are spread throughout the country. This is because ZAMTEL and ZAMPOST have, already, infrastructure in all the parts of the country.
Mr Speaker, in this regard, ZAMTEL, which has extensive telecommunication infrastructure, has been allowed to share its towers and microware links with MTN and Celtel to ensure that Celtel provides services where it has no infrastructure. This is done on the basis of purely commercial agreements. These agreements are negotiated between and among parties and are such that the terms and conditions are suitable to each other.
Mr Speaker, such agreements include:
(a) interconnection agreements; and
(b) infrastructure sharing agreements on costs and other associated matters.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that if the Government cannot develop the rural areas, it will be very difficult for any retiree to settle there. As a result, urban areas will be overcrowded.
Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, I have already mentioned that my Ministry, through the Communications Authority, authorised the mobile phone providers to operate in any part of this nation. There is no limitation. However, the capital investment I have talked about is what is hindering the mobile phone service providers from reaching some of the areas. The mobile phone service providers are free to extend their services.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, since the hon. Minister has stated that ZAMTEL has, by far, the greatest infrastructure in this country, would she state what measures she intends to take to ensure that ZAMTEL exploits this competitive advantage to become the largest mobile phone network provider in this country.
Ms Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, yes, ZAMTEL has the largest infrastructure in the country. However, it is also my honour and privilege to inform this august House that the Government, through our able leader, His Excellency, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. …
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Sayifwanda: … is encouraging the private sector to come in and participate. As a result, ZAMTEL is already expanding its network. Just a week ago, my Deputy Minister went to officiate the Optic Fibre which they have already started laying and this will cover the whole nation. Therefore, we are on course.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, in spite of a lot of progress that has been made to provide mobile and fixed phone services to the country, a large portion of the country, especially in the rural areas are still not covered. In order to encourage ZAMTEL and other private network providers, would the Government consider giving incentives to these companies, Celtel included, for providing services in the rural areas where ZAMTEL, presently, is not providing any service. Would the Government consider encouraging these people to provide these services throughout the country?
Mrs Sayifwanda: Mr Speaker, telecommunication requires capital investment and my office is ready to receive any suggestions from the operators where they feel that I can help so that they fully reach the Zambian people. My office is ready for that.
I thank you, Sir.
OLDEST INFORMATION AT THE NATIONAL ARCHIVES OF ZAMBIA
15. Mr Ntundu (Gwembe) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:
(a) how old the oldest information found at the National Archives was; and
(b) when the Government would release funds to complete the construction of the National Archives of Zambia building.
The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Ms Njapau): Mr Speaker, I wish to state that the oldest information found at the National Archives of Zambia dates back to 1896. This is the information that the British South African Company used during the administration of Northern Rhodesia as a colony between 1896 and 1911.
Mr Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.
Ms Njapau: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was answering the question posed by the hon. Member for Gwembe.
Sir, with regard to part (b) of the question, the funds for the completion of the National Archives of Zambia extension building were released by the Ministry of Finance and National Planning in the last quarter of 2007, specifically, November, 2007. A contractor, ZAMCHIN, is already on site and the works have already started. K 3 billion was released for this project.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has answered properly. Now, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister- hon. Minister, look at me, you are talking, and yet I am asking a question.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Order! You are addressing the Chair.
Laughter
Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures the Government has put in place, looking at the fact that there is no more space at the National Archives to store information. Before the completion of this building, what measures have been taken to ensure that information is stored at the National Archives of Zambia?
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, we are, indeed, short of space, but we have squeezed as much of the information in the area that is available for us and secured it against fire and theft for us to move and expand as soon as the new building is in place.
Of course access to certain information is now restrictive since we are unable to get to this information because of the space which is not available. In other words, we have bundled and packed a lot of information in containers in order to able to move into the new building.
I thank you, Sir.
Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, can we be privileged to know this information which dates back to 1896?
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the National Archives is there for all hon. Members of Parliament to visit, including the Member of Parliament for Katombola, Mrs Musokotwane, to access the rich information available there.
I would like to give an example of a district commissioner from a certain village, west of Kalomo, who was visiting and there was a guard salute that was given by riflemen of native villagers. This was done in 1897.The records are there. The district commissioner then and his wife, the wife of the executive who was being visited, made tea for the district commissioner and this is on record.
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Mumbi: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the Hon. Minister how complete the information in the archives is. Last year, if my memory serves me right, in this House, an hon. Member asked for some information on the Zambia Railways and the Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning did not have the information. Are they telling me now that he could not find this information in the archives?
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, our information is complete in the National Archives. I will, again, invite the hon. Members of Parliament to visit and see how much information is available for use in order to conduct research. Research is not only carried out here at this Library, but also at the National Archives. There is a lot of information on the railways, how the railways came about and where they started from. There are sections of information on the pre-colonial, post colonial, pre-independence, first, second and third republics available there. Chief’s affairs are also available. Therefore, I would encourage the hon. Members of Parliament to visit the National Archives and see what is available there. You will be surprised!
I thank you, Sir.
Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Mr Speaker, I know that in Library Science there is always the usage of microfiche for storing information, are the National Archives not doing that?
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the National Archives are storing information on microfiche. We have modernised the storage of information. The Nordic countries have assisted us greatly in the past five years to modernise the access of information. Sooner than later, we shall complete the exercise. Of course, it is a big task for us to do.
For example, we are now able to print larger than a life size photographs arising from that. For instance, there is a large photograph of the Litunga dancing with the Queen.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Laughter
Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether there are plans to put this information in national museums for the people to access.
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, there are plans for us to share information with national museums and also certain local institutions that provides this information to our people, but it has to be accessed purely on trust. Some of the information is so relic that most people would like to steal it and sell it because it is not available anywhere else. This is why we keep it under lock and key for the rest of the nation to be able to access.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Kapeya (Mpika): Mr Speaker, could the Hon. Minister be very specific and sincere to this House that most of the important material is not found in the archives. Could he inform this House what the problem has been for this country in maintaining up-to-date archive material?
I challenge the hon. Minister to give me the date and time of the first Zambian to fly a plane.
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the National Archives have a lot of information and I would urge Hon. Mwansa Kapeya, Member of Parliament for Mpika, to visit them and find the information he is looking for. He will be surprised at how much information there is.
However, without going to the National Archives, I can tell him the first Zambian to fly a plane was a white young Zambian called Anderson and the first black man to fly a plane in Zambia was General Christopher Kabwe. That information is available, we do not need it in the archives.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
_________{mospagebreak}
MOTION
MOTION OF THANKS
Mr Muteteka (Chisamba): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the thanks of this Assembly be recorded for the exposition of public policy contained in His Excellency the President’s Address.
Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?
Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.
Mr Muteteka: Sir, permit me to thank you sincerely for affording me this rare opportunity and honour to move the Motion of Thanks to the speech of the President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., on the occasion of the Official Opening of the Second Session of the Tenth National Assembly on Friday, 11th January, 2008.
Mr Speaker, I would like to congratulate the President on his well-delivered speech, which, in my view, was a well-researched overview of the performance of the Government in the last one year. His Excellency not only focused on the past year’s achievements, but also pondered on the challenges that still lie ahead of us, and which this House should deliberate upon.
In his address, the President covered a cross-section of major sectors, both social and economic. His Excellency the President’s review has set higher a tone to the agenda for the business of this House in 2008.
Sir, my delivery will not include a detailed discussion of everything contained in the President’s speech, but will only dwell on the most vexing issues. These include the Constitution-making process, citizens’ economic participation, private sector development; mining and education.
Mr Speaker, I wish to remind the House of the genesis of the constitution-making process initiated by the New Deal Administration. The President promised the people of Zambia a new Constitution that would stand the test of time. The process started with the setting up of the Constitutional Review Commission (CRC), following the holding of the National Indaba.
Sir, I am glad to note that the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) is operational, following the passing of the National Constitutional Conference Act. As the President explained, this is the first time since independence that this country has ushered in a consultative process on such a magnitude in constitution making.
Hon. PF Members: Aah! Question!
Mr Kambwili: It is questionable! Question!
Mr Muteteka: To this end, the New Deal Administration should be lauded for making its promise of providing a Government founded on democratic principles.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, I would like to encourage all the participants in the National Constitutional Conference to approach their tasks in a non-partisan manner.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muteteka: What should guide all the stakeholders involved in the process is the national interest.
I am glad to note that a number of Members of Parliament of this House have seen the need to rise above their party lines and participate in the exercise in spite of, sometimes, violent resistance from their parties.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muteteka: I congratulate these honourable men and women for their bravery for national interest.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Tembo: Zoona!
Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, I would like to praise the New Deal Administration for the sound economic policies that the Government has been implementing since 2002, …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muteteka: … which have firmly established an economy that is stable and consistently growing. This positive trend has continued to 2007, where sectors other than mining, have taken a lead. The prudent economic management by His Excellency’s Government, has led the country to record single digit inflation, stability in the exchange rate and a reduction in the interest rates.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muteteka: However, Mr Speaker, in spite of all these macro-economic gains, the nation still has challenges of equitably translating these gains into improving people’s living standards. I am happy to note that the MMD Government is dealing with this issue by diligently implementing the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) whose theme is “Wealth and Job Creation through Citizenry Participation,” which the President launched in January, 2007.
Mr Speaker, the FNDP is the New Deal’s blueprint for guiding the development agenda of our country, so as to ensure that every sector of the economy develops and ultimately boosts economic growth and employment and enhances poverty reduction.
Mr Speaker, in the areas of economic empowerment of the citizenry, the New Deal Government has been working on the Citizenry Empowerment Policy in order to encourage Zambians’ participation in the economy. It is gratifying to note that this year, the Government will operationalise the Empowerment Fund. While commending the Government for this effort, I would like to appeal that disbursement of the funding be free from bureaucratic impediments …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muteteka: … for the beneficiaries to receive the funds on time.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, though mining has been the main stay of our economy for decades, Zambia has been earning far less from its mining activities than other mining countries in the world. This is because the current mining fiscal regime is very generous to investors and does not provide revenue to the Government.
Mr Kambwili: Overgenerous.
Mr Muteteka: Mr Speaker, ours is a listening Government.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muteteka: As a reaction to the public outcry and the concern of co-operating partners who provide significant budgetary support, the Government has decided to introduce a new fiscal and regulatory regime in the mining sector. I must say, Mr Speaker, that this decision by the Government is long overdue.
Mr Speaker, finally, I am happy to note that a new university has been created in my province, Central Province. I believe that the establishment of the Mulungushi University in Kabwe will not only add value to Kabwe, but also ease the pressure on the current two universities and will contribute greatly to the provision of highly-skilled manpower in the country.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!
Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?
Mr Milupi (Luena): Now, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, I am grateful to be accorded the privilege of seconding the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Speech delivered to this august House on Friday 11th January, 2008 by His Excellency the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC.
Sir, I wish to commend the President for outlining the various policy measures which his Government wishes to implement in order to achieve accelerated socio-economic development.
Mr Speaker, in my speech, I will only focus on specific issues which I feel the MMD Government need to consider seriously.
Mr Speaker, the President mentioned the sound economic policies that the Government has been implementing over the years to ensure broad-based economic growth, employment creation and poverty reduction. However, as is widely known, achieving macro-economic gains alone is not enough if the people of Zambia cannot gain from this growth.
Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi: In other words, Sir, the growth in the GDP should accelerate socio- economic development. One of the hon. Ministers here present has previously referred to this as the need to promote the GDP in one’s pockets.
Mr Speaker, His Excellency the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, in his speech, during the Official Opening of the Second Session of the Tenth National Assembly, stated, and I quote:
“more than ever before, the people of Zambia want accelerated socio-economic development.”
In other words, Mr Speaker, the President recognises the level of underdevelopment in this country such that ordinary development or modest annual GDP growth figures are no longer sufficient. What is required is substantial annual GDP growth. This is what translates to accelerated development. The President must be thanked for articulating this. To achieve accelerated socio-economic development, the size of the national budget must, of necessity, grow substantially, meaning that the annual revenue must be greater than the figures in recent budgets.
Mr Speaker, it is in the light of this that His Excellency the President made a timely and wise pronouncement on a new fiscal and regulatory regime in order to bring about an equitable distribution of the mineral wealth between the partners, namely the Government and the mining companies.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, in making these pronouncements, the President has yet, again, shown that he is in synchronism with the wishes and desires of the whole country whose cross sections of the communities, including some of us in this House, have been calling for this for some time. This, Mr Speaker, is the hallmark of a great leader, who has his finger on the nation’s collective pulse and listens to the people.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi: Through you, Mr Speaker, we can say, well done Mr President, well done!
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, the over US$400 million additional revenue to be realised in 2008, when the new fiscal regime is implemented by all the mining companies, must result in a corresponding increase in the size of the budget. This House will look for it in the budget to be presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.
Mr Speaker, the news brought to this House by the Republican President is much too good to be negatived by creative accounting bent on showing that the mining companies are not making profits.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi: It is, therefore, timely to remind those whose duty it is to monitor the financial performance of the mining companies not to sit on their laurels, but look out for such activities.
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker, in the energy sector, the President, in his Address, to this August House, recognised the critical role the sector plays in the economy and the shortcomings inherent therein. The oil and electricity sub-sectors require a critical and focused attention to ensure that they do not become an impediment to the accelerated socio-economic development desired in this country.
Sir, I am glad that the President has acknowledged the failure by oil marketing companies to maintain fifteen days’ mandatory stocks. For a long time now, the Government has been assuring this nation that there will be no more fuel shortages when, in fact, the opposite has happened sporadically. This shows poor planning on the part of the Government and it is unacceptable. The people of Zambia expect better than this.
Let us hope that in 2008, the enhancement in the monitoring of the fifteen days’ mandatory stocks, the establishment of the stabilisation fund, the recapitalisation of Indeni and its equity restructuring as well as putting place of a mechanism for long-term supply of 1,440,000 metric tonnes of crude stock, will become a reality and not just rhetoric.
Mr Speaker, in the mining sector, the Government must critically re-examine the tax regime that makes the fuel costs to be one of the highest in the region. As you are aware, energy is the engine for economic development.
Mr Speaker, with regard to the electricity sub-sector, the growth in the sector has been and will continue to be exceeded by the growth in the mining and industrial electrical power demand, resulting in the country experiencing a deficit. The country has been experiencing power supply disruption, forcing ZESCO to implement load shedding. It is sad to note that forty-three years after independence, this country is facing power shortages in spite of the vast hydropower potential the country possesses. I, therefore, appeal to the Government to quickly put in place measures that will avert the looming power shortages.
Mr Speaker, on the oil and gas exploration in the North-Western and Western Provinces, let me just say the nation is pregnant with expectation. As an hon. Member of Parliament from the Western Province, which has the highest poverty levels, let me say how pleased I am at the recognition and, indeed, inclusion of Lukulu, Kalabo and Mongu Districts in this exploration. Indeed, after the President’s Speech, the hon. Member for Lukulu East was hurt to say to hon. Kakoma that, ‘you are just a sheik where as I am now hon. Ayatollah Sheik Batuke Imenda’ ….
Laughter
Mr Milupi: We need to see action in this area and if we succeed, Zambia will be on the way to becoming not only a middle income, but also a developed country.
Mr Speaker, I acknowledge the Government’s formulation of a National Adaptation Programme of action whose objective is to map out adaptation strategies to address the adverse impact of climate change. However, my only concern is the lack of an action plan on disaster preparedness. This is evident from the way the Government has been handling the flood situations over the years. The consequences of floods are immense, as they affect the food security of the nation. My appeal to the Government is that funds should be sourced well in advance to mitigate the impact of the floods.
Mr Speaker, coming to another subject, nobody should need to be convinced that corruption is a cancer that can destroy this country. It retards development and promotes poverty. The President has, from the time he assumed office, showed remarkable leadership qualities by embracing the fight against corruption and setting the tone for a move to zero-tolerance to corruption. The whole Zambian society should have followed suit by creating a culture in which corruption is not only fought by law enforcement agencies, but abhorred by every segment of society. This, sadly, has not happened. Everyone looks to the President to fight corruption, and yet tolerates the various levels of corruption that permeates the Zambian society, including petty corruption such as paying under the table to get a school place for a child. That is why we welcome the President’s creation of integrity committees to help nurture a culture of anti-corruption in public offices. To this end, the eight pilot integrity committees are welcome. Yet, again, Mr President, well done!
Mr Speaker, on gender and development, the President, in his address to this August House, stated that the Government has mainstreamed gender in the Fifth National Development Plan to ensure that men and women are treated equally. Sir, with regard to gender-based violence, the President also announced measures that the Government has taken to protect women and children against gender violence. The President must, therefore, be commended in his efforts to achieve gender equality as demonstrated by the appointment of women in decision-making positions. However, I note that the domestication of the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination Against Women into national law has not been done.
Mr Speaker, in addition, I note that the SADC Declaration on Gender and Development of 30 per cent women representation in decision-making positions has not yet been achieved. This threshold has now been adjusted to 50 per cent. I hope that more deserving women will be accorded an opportunity to serve this nation.
Sir, on agriculture, allow me to say that the increased production in food crops reflects the good policies on agriculture that the Government has put in place. In this Administration, the country has consistently produced food surplus every year.
Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi: Despite this, some parts of the country continue to experience food deficiency. This is an indication of food insecurity in our country.
Food security emanates from poor marketing which is ineffective in the distribution of food surplus to deficit areas. We need to establish agriculture as the main source of livelihood to our rural dwellers. We also need to resolve the issues raised above such as putting in place effective marketing strategies.
Mr Speaker, certain of our rural areas that suffer annual food shortages require focused attention for the Government to ensure that they too are able to produce food for their own consumption as well as surplus to generate revenue for other needs. Rural areas such as my own constituency, Luena, in Mongu District need proper and adequate drainage of water through clearing of existing canals and the creation of new ones. If that is done in Luena, for example, in the whole of the upper land in Makanda, we will, at a stroke, remove the annual loss of food production through floods. I am sure this is equally true of other rural areas.
The other concern of food production in the rural area is the lack of tools to enable the small scale and peasant farmers till greater hectarage. There are no tractors and cattle diseases have decimated their population, resulting in a drastic reduction in animal drought power.
Mr Speaker, I concur with His Excellency the President on the need to establish the livestock industry as a major player in Zambia’s socio-economic development. Let the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives move away from mere rhetoric and come up with urgent programmes to implement the President’s words.
Sir, the advert of the fish disease in the Western Province during 2007 was a major blow to the socio-economic status of an already impoverished province. It must not be allowed to happen again.
Sir, during 2007, some places experienced serious floods and required relief food which was distributed by the Government through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit. Sadly, the distribution of relief food was chaotic and in itself a disaster. Many of the vulnerable people who required relief food were left out. This year, more people will require relief food because of the floods that are already being experienced in various parts of the country. As citizens of this country, we expect a much more organised and timely distribution of relief food to those who have been affected by the devastating floods. Hopefully, the affected households will also be assisted with farming inputs in the forthcoming 2008/2009 farming season.
Finally, Sir, I wish to commend the President for steering the Constitution-making process to the current position where the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) has started.
Mr Kambwili: Question!
Mr Milupi: Let us recognise that the Government has shifted significantly from their original position to accommodate the views of most stakeholders.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi: It must be accepted that certain sections of the stakeholders still have reservations, but my view is that sufficient common ground has been established to enable us shift from discussing the process to debating the content of the Constitution.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi: Let the Government continue to demonstrate to all and sundry that they mean well and that the National Constitutional Conference will continue to be unfettered in their resolve to give this country a Constitution that will stand the test of time.
Mr Speaker, I beg to second.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to make my contributions pertaining to the President’s Speech that was delivered to this House last Friday.
I take note of the good things the President said, if any, and wish to express my anguish and sadness that the President’s Speech did not address the issues of flooding that has seriously affected the people of the Southern Province and other areas.
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Even at the time the President was delivering his speech, the people of the Southern Province and other areas were wallowing in extreme danger, but this Government has not taken any measure to address the suffering of the people.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: I was in Bweengwa the day before yesterday and what I saw there is highly depressing. More than 5,000 people are homeless. They have no food, and yet this Government, which is supposed to be responsible for the welfare of the people, is doing nothing. Lives have been lost in the Southern Province and other areas, but nothing is being done about it. It appears there is also a gap that has been created by the Government. The information is coming from foreign broadcasting stations such as the British Broadcasting Corporation (BBC) portraying the suffering of our people. Where is the Government?
Mr Speaker, in Mozambique where there is a similar calamity, the Government has declared the situation a national disaster and is now appealing to the International Community to assist the people.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Hon. Colleagues, you must be sympathetic with the situation in Bweengwa and other areas. Some of the women who have been waiting for relief food have given birth prematurely owing to the fact that they have not been eating for more than a week as a result of the Government being so irresponsible.
Mr Speaker, I would like to appeal to the Office of the Vice-President to ensure that responsibility is exhibited, even where I know that the Government is very responsible for you to make such statements. You cannot say such things when people are suffering.
Interruptions
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, even where the Government has attempted to provide relief food like in Mazabuka, they only provided forty bags of roller meal to carter for more than 2,000 people. Surely, is that the way we are going to look after our people? Why should we do that?
Mr Speaker, even those who have the money to buy food cannot access the trading areas because the roads are impassable.
Mr Mubika: Use helicopters!
Mr Mwiimbu: I know that we do not have helicopters in this country, therefore, why should we not appeal to the international community for assistance? The people of Southern Province, Hon. Mubika, are not like you who celebrate when there is a disaster. We are depressed.
Laughter
Mr Mwiimbu: I earnestly appeal to the Government to assist the people. Bridges have been washed away and you cannot talk about roads in the Southern Province because they are not worth talking about. The situation is desperate and if colleagues in this House cannot be responsible, I would like to appeal to His Excellency the President to declare the situation a national disaster. Let him visit these areas and see for himself.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Most of the islands have been submerged in water and all those people who live in the areas that are flooded are being evacuated by villagers using dugout canoes and scotch carts.
Mr Speaker, I still emphasis that the situation obtaining in the country is a national disaster. This Government has no capacity to provide for everyone in this country and that is a fact. The flooding is not only in the Southern Province, in more than thirty-six districts. We can only gain and get the capacity if we appeal for help. If the Government is shy to appeal for help, I am appealing, through this House, to the international community to assist us.
Mr Shawa: Who are you?
Mr Mwiimbu: I am Jack Mwiimbu, Member of Parliament for Monze, a very responsible person and the one who has made that statement is irresponsible and the people of your constituency can hear you.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, to make matters worse, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives has betrayed the people of Southern Province. People had responded under the Fertiliser Support Programme by making the requisite prepayment for fertiliser. Unfortunately, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives failed to honour their obligation. As a result of the heavy rains and the failure to provide fertiliser to the people, this year, there will be a disaster. The people of Southern Province will require relief food arising from negligence on the part of the Government.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: They have started well by planting, but they have been failing to get the fertiliser. In this House, many of our colleagues have been praising the Government on the agricultural policies. Why have you been praising them? They have not provided the farming inputs and we even regret having exported the little maize that we had for there will be not be enough maize this year.
Mr Speaker, even those who can afford to purchase their own fertiliser have failed to do so due to gross negligence on the part of the Government.
They supplied their maize to the Food Reserve Agency (FRA). To-date most of the farmers have not been paid.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Where do you expect a poor peasant farmer to get money if they are not paid for their produce, and yet colleagues on that side (right side) are all quiet. They are even laughing at our people. Surely, is that the way we are going to govern this country?
If they are people who are culpable in this matter, let them be held responsible. We should not allow situations where people who have done wrong are being praised. We have deliberately destroyed agriculture in this country …
Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer!
Mr Mwiimbu: … because of our policies. Some of the statements by His Excellency the President, as I indicated are good, but the implementation on the part of our colleagues is actually not prudent.
I have been in this House for more than seven years and every year, we have been receiving good speeches from the President, but alas, the implementation part has not been worth mentioning.
Even the fight against corruption, which the President is crusading, will fail because you colleagues (Government side) are not ensuring in your ministries that those who are responsible are dealt with.
Even the little money that is made available is returned to the Treasury because you are failing to utilise it.
Hon. Opposition Member: K900 billion!
Mr Munaile: Shame!
Mr Mwiimbu: K900 billion has been returned to the Treasury. At the same time, you are lamenting that this Government has no money to maintain the roads and buy medicines. Surely, why should we do that? I hope that this time we shall jack up and ensure that we do well for the people of this country.
I would like to acknowledge the bold decision of the President pertaining to the taxations of the mines. In this House, Mr Speaker, your hon. Opposition Members have been urging this Government to introduce those taxes and these colleagues have always been refusing, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: … justifying on behalf of the mining companies. They even voted against the motions that we presented in this House.
Hon. Opposition Members: Now they want to be proud and associate themselves with the statement that was made by the President.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: You are the ones that have been letting us and the people of this country down because you did not want to do good things.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: Why should you always be instructed instead of doing good for the people of Zambia on your own volition?
Mr Speaker, the issue of taxation is long overdue. Even as I speak now, I am still pessimistic whether that is going to be implemented or not because of the colleagues on your right side who do not want to do good for the people of this country. The people of this country will judge them harshly. If they will recall, we used to advise their colleagues the same way we are advising them now. They were arrogant and ambivalent. We told them that if they did not listen to our advice, most of them would not come back and true to our word, most of them never came back. Therefore, if you also do not listen to good advice, most of you will go. I can assure you that.
Mr Speaker, lastly, I would like to appeal to colleagues in this House to consider the issue of the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) seriously. CDF is the only Fund that is not used discretionarily as it goes to every constituency. I would like to appeal to you to support the motion that the CDF should be increased to one billion kwacha.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: At least one billion kwacha will be able to bring some tangible development to our constituencies.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwiimbu: I have no doubt in my mind that most of you colleagues will support this noble cause.
Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I thank you.
Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): I thank you, Mr Speaker, for according me this opportunity to join other hon. Members of Parliament who have spoken before me.
Allow me, Sir, to begin my debate by quoting from a document which is a parliamentary document entitled “Nigeria: Democracy in Progress”. I would like to quote the sentiments which were expressed by a, hon. Member of Parliament in that Legislature on page 35 of the same document which you ably made available to all hon. Members of Parliament. I quote what this Legislator said as follows:
“As a Journalist, I covered several distances and travelled extensively. On one single day I could be working with the poorest of the poor, reporting their plight and poverty. The same day I could find myself later in the evening covering an event of the rich and powerful. Many things worried me. For instance the cost of a meal and exquisite drink for just one guest could transform the lives of the people I had seen earlier. I was touched by the plight of many I came across in poverty and unemployment. Many were merely surviving, not living. I did my little bit for those I could. Later, I found myself jumping from journalism to politics as an elected Member of the House of Representatives.”
Sir, allow me also to make a brief quotation emanating from the other Parliamentary document which was made available to all of us. It is entitled “The Parliamentarian, 2006 Issue”. I would like to confine myself to page 134 regarding the article that was written by the Clerk of the National Assembly, and I quote:
Hon. Opposition Member: Which country?
Mr Mulyata: Which Assembly?
“The health of a political system in any country rests on having an effective Parliament.”
Sir, when I make reference to the sentiments which were expressed by a leader in the Nigerian Parliament I find myself using the same language.
Ever since I was given the mandate by the people of Bangweulu Constituency to represent them in this House, I have been very consistent that any system that does not attend to the plight of Zambians is a weak system and must be strengthened. I have always been on record as having invited the Government of the day to attend to the plight of many Zambians, most of whom live in abject poverty.
The hon. Member of Parliament for Monze, Mr Mwiimbu, has ably made reference to carelessness, for lack of a better word, on the part of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to even inform the nation that K900 billion had been returned to the Treasury because it had not been spent.
Sir, in this House, we have been requesting the Government to attend to the plight of the poorest of the poor. Our people have no clean water, the roads are impassable and most Zambians live on one meal a day if they are lucky, but the Ministry of Finance of National Planning had the courage to even inform them that K900 billion had not been spent, but had been returned to the Treasury.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kasongo: That, Mr Speaker, is an insult to the people of Zambia.
In other words, the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has failed to provide strong leadership. We have said it in this House. We always talk about the same issue.
Mr Kambwili: Shame!
Mr Kasongo: All of us, as elected Members of Parliament, have always called upon the Government of the day to attend to the plight of our people.
Mr Kambwili: Efyo mwaikali zii nge fyo mumfwa!
Mr Kasongo: The Ministry has always said that there is nothing that it can do because funds are not available. However, on that particular day, the same Ministry was able to inform all of us that K900 billion had been returned to the Treasury. My Hon. Colleagues, as a Cabinet Minister, through the Chair, how do you feel to be part of a system that encourages incompetence? That is incompetence in my view!
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes! It is.
Mr Kasongo: The Ministry of Finance and National Planning would have put in place an effective system to monitor the performance of the controlling officers to ensure that all funds that were voted for in this House are expended and be able to meet the needs of our Zambians.
Monze has been cut off from the rest of the country at the moment. If you want to go to Monze, you will not reach that place unless you go via other districts.
Hon. Government Members: Which Monze?
Mr Kasongo: Most of our places have been cut off from the rest of the country, but the Ministry could even inform us that in spite of all these …
Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Sir.
Mr Kasongo: … problems that we are facing, money would have to be returned to the Treasury. That is incompetence of the waste kind. I dare Zambians to begin rating leaders who are trying to aspire for the presidential office.
Hon Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kasongo: It is a mockery for one who has failed to perform in a very junior position to aspire for presidency.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kasongo: We cannot allow those double standards. We have to begin rating them …
Mr Muntanga: Magande, Dr Chituwo!
Interruption
Mr Muntanga: Hon. Shikapwasha!
Mr Kasongo: … on the basis of their performance.
Mr Speaker, there is nothing as painful as someone who has been given a mandate by the Head of State to fail to utilise the funds which have been voted for by this House.
Sir, animals are dying in our respective places. The poultry industry has been destroyed. People are not able to move from one corner of the country to another because the roads are impassable since they have developed potholes. We have no medicines in our clinics. We have no money to pay our doctors as an incentive. We cannot even employ additional teachers because the Government of the day has been saying that funds are not available, and yet the ministry that has been given the mandate to look after our money could even go to the extent of saying K900 billion was found wanting and it is going back to the Treasury.
Mr Speaker, at the moment, there is no top dressing fertiliser in our respective constituencies, …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kasongo: … and yet you are appealing to Zambians to grow more food to feed themselves. How are they going to do that because the money that could have been used to buy fertiliser has been returned to the Treasury? Meanwhile that farmer is moving from one place to another just to look for a pocket of fertiliser which is not even available. You can find out, through the Chair, from the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives whether top dressing fertiliser has been supplied to the farmers. The answer that you are going to get is that funds are not available or “we are looking for money”, and yet K900 billion has been returned to the Treasury.
Mr Kambwili: Inconsistency!
Mr Kasongo: Is it not a mockery of our own system? We are appealing to Zambians to grow more food, but they cannot access fertiliser. Meanwhile, the money is with the Treasury.
Mr Kambwili: It is criminal!
Mr Kasongo: It is uncalled for! We have been talking about the plight of our police officers and soldiers who do not have accommodation. We have admitted in here that we want to ensure that we provide comfort to our police officer by constructing houses. We have been looking for money, but we are saying we will do this when funds are not available. Money is in the Treasury! K900 billion!
Mr Speaker, all I can do …
Mr Kambwili: Mwila seka, fili serious!
Mr Kasongo: … is implore the Head of State to live up to his promise that he will ensure that action is taken in one way or another. After all, we are even saying that the excitement that he created in this House is yet to be translated into action. In fact, personally, I was expecting that immediately after that address, the President was going to make changes in the system the following day.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, I have said it several times that it is too costly to keep liabilities in any system.
Mr Muntanga: The whole system is a liability.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kasongo: Most of our colleagues have become passengers in the same system. They have become followers. That is why they are not able to perform.
Mr Muntanga: The whole system is a liability.
Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, I can, again, make reference to the position that was taken by the Head of State in his Address. He said he would like to echo our sentiments as Members of the Back Bench that we are going to increase tax that is being paid by the mine owners. This is not a new thing except that our colleagues who are supposed to be assisting the Head of State have relaxed a lot.
You may wish to know that sometime back, in the Sunday Mail of Scotland of 28th October, 2007, there was an article that was written by our concerned colleagues outside our country. The article was entitled, ‘Zambia does the work, but who makes the money.’ It is here! They cannot claim that they have not accessed this information. The Head of State is too busy. He may attend to the late appeals and so on, but we expect his advisors from Cabinet to pass on this information to him. They must tell him that we are losing a lot of money and this is the plight of our resources, therefore, can we take action. Show him the document.
Mr Speaker, there is another article which is self explanatory in this book, the “New Africa” and it is entitled, ‘Tropicking from Poverty.’ Our colleagues cannot claim that they have not seen this document in which these people have written extensively about how much money we are losing because we are not collecting taxes from the mine owners. It is all in this book.
One can go to any of the bookshops and will find these very informative documents, but no action has been taken.
Mr Speaker, if our Cabinet has been assisting our Head of State, I can assure you that even what happened on Friday where we had to take a break in order to allow the President to rest a little, would not have happened. These people would have provided a strong cushion where the Head of State could have been resting.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kasongo: These people have failed the President. Our President is being overworked, and yet we have a Cabinet. I must admit that I have exceptions and the only problem I have in emphasising that is that people may think that I am campaigning for those who are aspiring for the office of the President.
Interruptions
Mr Kasongo: Sir, I have said it in this House that I am never paid to parise those who are doing extremely well. I am afraid to say that our Cabinet must sit up. The Cabinet should be able to assist the Head of State. To say the least, it is an insult to inform the Head of State that K900 billion has not been spent and the following day you present yourself as a Presidential candidate.
Laughter
Mr Kasongo: It is unbelievable.
Sir, let me also implore the Government of the day to pay maximum attention to the question of gender equality. As a nation, we have not done extremely well compared to other countries. I have a document here from Cabinet Office entitled, “Secretary to the Cabinet Launches PFM Component.” We have data in this book which is indicating the women participation in decision making for 2007 for elected public service positions, but we have not achieved anything. Going by the same information that has been requested here, you may wish to know that in terms of women decision-making positions against men, there are only 116 women against 452 men. This shows that we have not done enough.
Therefore, I would like to implore the Government of the day to ensure that gender equality becomes one of the items which should be addressed sufficiently. Otherwise, this information is nothing to talk about. Other countries like South Africa and Mozambique have gone ahead. These countries are calling for 50 per cent between men and women in decision-making positions and so on. Who told us through the Chair that women cannot do better than men?
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kasongo: In fact, it is evident that those women who have been given positions at political level, Permanent Secretary level and directorship level have a fold in one way or another. Zambia must not be seen to lag behind.
Mr Speaker, I have said what I could and through you, I implore the Government of the day to address all these issues this year.
Mr Speaker, I remember last year I even talked about the lack of accountability in our system. I presented to this House financial irregularities from 2001 to 2006 to the tune of K14.7 trillion. How many boreholes can we sink and how many hospitals can we construct from that amount of money? To add salt to the same injury, we are told that K900 billion has not been spent.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.{mospagebreak}
Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for allowing me to debate this Motion. On the outset, I would like to thank the mover of the Motion, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chisamba, who, on a light-hearted note, lives on the fringe of my village farm and has just been relieved from the jaws of the crocodile. I would like to congratulate him.
Mr Speaker, I also wish to thank the Induna from Luena who is looking emaciated after the fish has been destroyed by that deadly disease.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: I will help by giving him some beef. Nonetheless, his speech was inspiring.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: Sir, I now wish to debate the Presidential Speech. I will be very categorical and to the point. Firstly, in my view, the Speech by His Excellency the President was reconciliatory. For the last five years I have been in this Chamber, this Speech was not a partisan document in the sense that it does not mention ‘MMD’ anywhere unless if you can show me which page. I think I am not one of those who take reading as a luxury.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: I have read through this document. This Speech encourages us all to work in unison in order to move this country forward.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: From 1990 to date, we have done nothing except politick and pull each other down. For some of us, as we look forward to hand over to the younger people, it is time to get this country moving. If you look at the President’s Address, on Local Government and Housing, he stated that he wanted to start developing the rural areas. With an able hon. Minister such as that one there (pointing at the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing), …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: … I have every confidence that we from the rural areas will soon receive the benefits of this development.
Sir, may I, at this point, borrow the words my brother, Hon. Mwiimbu, used on CDF by saying that those sewers, culverts and agricultural rules can be dealt with if the CDF went by the figure he mentioned. You should reflect and get on the hon. Minister …
Laughter
Mr Matongo: You should get on the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.
Hon. Opposition Members: Get on top of him!
Laughter
Mr Matongo: No, I do not want to associate myself with that statement.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: What I meant was to make him appreciate that we can deal with small projects if the CDF was increased. If you look at agriculture in the rural setup, the President is encouraging restocking. Alas, the money for animal restocking in the Southern Province has disappeared in thin air. About K1.6 billion is related to your own committee’s budget. Is it not that the K900 billion which is being questioned at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning should have been withdrawn because the ministries may have misdirected the fund like what happened to the restocking fund in the Southern Province.
Hon. Opposition Member: Questionable!
Mr Matongo: Go and question your voters. My voters believe in me.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: Secondly, and I am not talking about copper, but cattle. So, know your business.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: I want to state that, here, there are thirty-seven Deputy Ministers …
Mr Kambwili: They are not well informed.
Mr Matongo: … and there are twenty-three Cabinet Ministers. I think that His Excellency the President’s message was that some of them may not have supported him sufficiently, hence that day, I had a sensational feeling about where the disfunctionality of this Government lay. Was the President not saying, “here stops the buck”? Or was it too many hon. Ministers not knowing what they are supposed to be doing? Or, was it simply an insufficient delegation?
Mr Speaker, I have come to the conclusion that with that message, together with the information that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning has given us that K 900 billion is being returned to the Treasury, we all should share that responsibility and jack up by criticising hon. Ministers who have to bring projects and roads to us.
Mr Speaker, this has to do with a management system rather than an individual. Therefore, I appeal that when this side of the House criticises, they should be able to have information about a project that one hon. Minister may not have done in their constituency.
Hon. Minister: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, I also want to put it this way …
Ms Mumbi interjected.
Mr Matongo: Say that again and I will react.
Mr Speaker, I want to state that if there is anything to reflect upon, I should be calling on the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to do one more thing. I would like him to help the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services. All of us received forms for money for women empowerment. Instead of sending that money back to the Ministry, I would like to appeal that the Ministry is given a little more time so that all the constituencies can receive that money for…
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: … women empowerment. I appeal to the hon. Minister and her colleague to consider those constituencies that may wish to access that money. That is the reflection I want to leave in this House.
Since all this money has not yet gone back to the Ministry, we would like to see some dispensation to the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services so that the K2 million per club could be given to us.
May I further state that for the systems to be strong and the ministries to be strengthened, it is we the politicians to ensure that all institutions of good governance like the Police Force, the Anti-Corruption Commission (ACC), the Drug Enforcement Commission (DEC) and the Human Rights Commission are fully supported with facts and not mere allegations so that when these people are in position, they can be seen to be receiving support from us.
Mr Speaker, talking about the economy, in February, 2007, I said this, and I quote:
“Mr Speaker, we will be demanding for windfall taxes on mining companies.”
Sir, in the Budget Speech, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning said that 25/30 per cent of the items he put there, are subject to negotiation.
In 1966 and 1967- and Hon. Mwaanga who is not with us today will agree with me that that year, because of the Vietnam War, this country actually brought in windfall tax. Now, it is coming again. However, this windfall tax and the variable tax are only coming a year after. In fact, they will only come in April which means they will come fifteen months after we advocated for them. Surely, they should have come much earlier to bring this money into the country.
Mr Speaker, what this means is that by the figures that have been given in this House, we have lost $400 million for new investors and $250 million for investors that were there at the time of signing the dreaded development agreements. We have lost $ 650 billion and if you look at our Budget at K12 trillion, K3 trillion of that Budget is donor supported. If we raise that money, do we really need to have the K3 trillion going to donors, cap in hand and on bended knees when, in fact, we left our own money lying out there? These are the realistic things that we must be debating rather than worrying about persons and characters of persons.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: It is these arguments that we need to be looking at. We have lost money. His Excellency the President said so. It is good when you accept responsibility, and they have accepted responsibility. You must accept criticism so that in future, the use of the money budgeted for is utilised within the budget cycle.
I want to say something about the budget cycle. It is very easy to criticise. The budget circle is supposed to be twelve months. In reality, it takes very simple calculation to know that, in fact, it is nine months.
Hon. Member: You are right.
Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, we need to look at the system, which I know is a constitutional matter. What we need to do is get our budgets in September and implement in January and then the Budget cycle will be correct. The excuse about the recall of the money is the budget cycle for those of you who read. The reasons and excuses that are being given are that when the Budget is approved beginning of April, by the time the documentation goes through, it is July. There are tender procedures which we should criticise. This is what I call criticism that needs to be thrown around. The tender procedures in this country are pre-determined by pre-conceived corruption to take long so that people can get money at the end of the day.
Hon. Member: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: It is this that we should be …
Hon. Member: Criticising
Mr Matongo: Criticising. Do you understand?
Laughter
Mr Matongo: This is what we should be criticising. It is not other ulterior motives that you have.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: I am asking this Government which seems to be fighting corruption to deal with tender procedures so much that tenders can be done as quickly as in the corporate world.
Mr Speaker, may I further state that in as far as the performance of the economy goes, and, again, by the admission of the Head of State, in the Budget last year, we talked of GDP, interest rates and inflation. All these can be revisited.
They may have come down. With inflation at 9 per cent, when you borrow money at 17 per cent plus all the additions, 21 per cent is not good enough. It is not good enough when you talk of micro-economic success when people cannot have their kapenta and nshima, let alone their bread and butter. We need to deliver to the people and not deliver into our pockets. However, before it gets there it is whisked away in taxes. I am saying reflect on your Budget this year. Let the corporate bodies pay more tax than the few workers that we have now who are underpaid.
I want to see a situation whereby it is reversed. The workers, in general terms, including sometimes us, are paying than the corporate world. I do hope that Hon. Magande will address the situation this year with this revenue coming from the copper revenues. I do not accept that interest rates are low. Whereas when you put your money in a bank, you are paid less than 2 per cent, when you borrow from the bank it is anything beyond 21 per cent.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: In America, the biggest capitalist country, the Governor of the bank determines the interest rates. What is so wrong about determining when the Government is charging the banks co-operate tax of only around 35 per cent when, in fact, you have reduced borrowing from the central bank and so there is more excess money for them to lend, when you have reduced the statutory reserves funding? Even if you want to make them capitalists, must it take another year for the Government to tell these financial boffins on Cairo Road that enough is enough? After all, from what we hear, they are only lending K900 billion. It is not intervention to tell people that this is the bottom line. I call upon the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the Governor of the bank of Zambia to reduce interest rates. You do not have enough jobs to keep on employing your cadres in the Foreign Service and elsewhere.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: However, if the money from the banks could be borrowed at lower rates, you would encourage them to go into business.
Hon. Opposition Member: Yes.
Mr Matongo: Please, do not wait for another year for windfall invaluable tax. You should simply tell the banks that you are going too far. They cannot talk of the cost of running business. Those that are borrowing money from them are suffering more because of the high interest rates. My hon. Colleagues, this is what we need to champion on. This is what we need to help them understand, like you have made them understand on windfall tax. Then you can pat yourselves on your backs.
Hon. Opposition Members: Yes.
Mr Matongo: It is not how handsome the hon. Minister of Justice looks, …
Laughter
Mr Matongo: … but the delivery of documents on the NCC that satisfy people that want to debate the Constitution. I am now on constitutionalism. Those who want to stay in peace, stay in peace.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: How on earth can anybody imagine that more than 500 people are all outcasts and incompetent or may I quote the former President Kaunda, “idiots”? I am only quoting, Sir.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: How can you think like that?
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Order! That is an unparliamentary quote.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Can you withdraw it, please.
Laughter
Mr Matongo: I withdraw it, Sir. How can people think like that? How can four or five institutions of people decide they are the cleverest of them all in this country and the rest of us are half baked?
Hon. Government Members: Shame!
Mr Matongo: I shudder to believe. Anyway, we shall produce a good Constitution.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Matongo: We will fight on the Floor and they will be ashamed.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order!{mospagebreak}
The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Tetamashimba): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate that has been brought in by my young colleague who has just left the House and seconded by the Induna from the Western Province.
Mr Speaker, I want to carry on from the last speaker, especially the statement he made about the windfall tax last year. We need to congratulate President Mwanawasa for the bold decision he took by informing the nation last Friday.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, it is on record that people who were in the last Government made the development agreements above the Constitution of this country. Those are the people who are now in the smallest of parties, talking about things which are different from what they were doing.
Mr Speaker, I must say that we must all thank President Mwanawasa for making that decision. I saw that everybody was very happy on Friday. I think we now have gotten what we wanted. We should now start talking about where this money should go and not talking about this or that person.
We heard Hon. Mwiimbu talk about the floods in his area. I pity my brothers from the Southern Province for having a lot of water now. Previously, they used to ask for water, but I think God has given them too much water now.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: While I agree that we can be blamed for not visiting the flood victims, we should have been told here that the UPND President was the first to visit them.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: He only went there after seven days.
Hon. UPND Member: He was there.
Mr Tetamashimba: The President of this country was there even earlier than the President for UPND.
Hon. UNPD Members: Aah!
Hon. Government Member: Bawuze.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, what the President has done now is to empower Zambians. In the years the President has been in power there are many vehicles on the streets because the economy is now very good. There is a shortage of cement in this country not because there was failure to produce cement, but because many people are building. We should give credit to this Government and especially our colleagues in the Front Bench.
Mr Kambwili: Aah! Questionable!
Mr Tetamashimba: Previously, Mr Speaker, when the leader for the Chief Whip for PF was here, there was no one to buy the cement because there was no money. People were suffering.
Hon. Opposition Members: It was still MMD.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, MMD has existed since 1991, but we are talking of individuals. There is no party which is bad, but individuals. When they do bad things, they move from one party to the other. They go and hide in the small parties and then they start blaming their parties. That is not right.
Hon. Opposition Member: Like you.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, I want to say that this Government has done very well and I am very grateful to the people of Taiwan because they have removed that government which was funding some people and bringing anarchy to Zambia.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: I am very grateful to the people of Taiwan. They are very good people because there will be no money now and nobody will go to South Africa to get some dollars now.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: Even in Malawi, there is nothing.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, let me now talk about the budget, especially the windfall tax. All of us who are here now believe that sooner or later, we are going to see that the kwacha will continue growing strong. My colleagues who have been given bus stations to operate in Solwezi will buy more buses now. The proprietor of Marks Motorways now wants to bring in more buses because he is going to have a lot of dollars due to President Mwanawasa’s policies.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: Even my colleague there, Hon. Willie Nsanda, was recently given a bus station. He is doing very well. This is because this Government is doing very well.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, I read about the K900 billion. It was sent back to the Treasury and I am sure the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will talk about it. You heard the hon. Minister of Education, last year before we adjourned, telling us about how many secondary schools he was putting up. I think he has put up a lot of secondary schools, especially for girls. He has not put up a school in his constituency or in Solwezi but has erected schools here in Lusaka. When we advertised through the Zambia National Tender Board and the tenders were not given, the money which was in the ministries was reorganised to be kept at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. The money has been taken back to the Ministry of Finance and National Planning because the contracts for the construction of schools and hospitals have not been awarded. So, there is no need to get concerned as though this money will be used for other things.
I, therefore, agree with what hon. Matongo said that we need to start looking at the budget system. Last time, the Government brought up this issue, but it was hon. Members of Parliament who were dillydallying about it. I must say that let us look at the brighter side of our country and do better than we have done in the past, especially now that the value of the kwacha is going to be stronger.
I heard some people talk about gender. Yes, there are many women in decision-making positions. However, when some hon. Members are giving statistics, they should compare them with how many women were in decision-making positions in the first ten years when their party president was in Government.
Mr Kambwili: Which president?
Mr Tetamashimba: Then their argument will be right. From 1991 to 2001, President Sata was in Government. Find out …
Mr Kambwili: Why are you mentioning his name?
Mr Tetamashimba: … how many women were given good jobs? These are the issues we must be talking about. When I mention somebody who failed here, it cannot be argued that he is outside.
Mr Kambwili: Echo muleletela ifyongo.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, with regard to the issue of gender, this Government has a Deputy Bank of Zambia Governor who is a woman. A young professional woman has been appointed …
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Tetamashimba: … she is surely controlling the economy, so I do not know what else people want. The Government of President Mwanawasa has appointed a woman as the managing director of the Zambia National Building Society …
Mr Munaile: What tribe is she?
Mr Tetamashimba: She is not his tribe. Tribalists are those like the Whip (pointing at Mr Kambwili) who are going to destroy this country like what is happening in Kenya. We are not going to allow that …
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order! Order! The hon. Deputy Minister will stick to the Motion on the president’s Address.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, I can tell you that I am the only hon. Member of Parliament who wins in all the political parties that I go to …
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: … unlike those who are suffering from the divisions that are now taking place in their parties.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: I want to talk about the things that have been raised on the Floor concerning gender-related appointments. Out of 400 managerial positions, more than 100 positions are held by women. Let us try to compare with the days when the leaders in our small parties were in Government. What did they do? That is the point I am trying to raise.
Mr Speaker, the Zambia State Insurance Corporation is run by a female professional. Surely, that is a fact. The Auditor-General is a very hardworking woman.
We are being told that there is too much corruption now because previously, it was being hidden under the carpet.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: Iwe uletolaukafye nge ichula.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, it is only in this Government, with regard to women in decision-making positions, that, or the first time, his House has a female Speaker who is a woman of integrity for that matter …
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Tetamashimba: For the first, the Clerk here is woman. This is during the time of President Mwanawasa.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, we need to look forward to doing more about gender representation. We agree that we need to do more,but blaming without giving comparisons is not right. We need to be giving comparisons. What this Government has done is better than what was done in the first ten years of The MMD governance. This is a fact that we cannot run away from.
Mr Kambwili: We are not worried, we are not part of them.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, I do agree that somebody can say that, but their leader was in the forefront and held the third position in leadership for ten years. They cannot run away from that fact.
Mr Kambwili: Mulongoti was there.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, hon. Mulongoti was never minister.
I cannot say much about the Local Government system because I heard the praises that my hon. Minister got. Yes, she a very hardworking hon. Minister, and I am happy to work with her.
Hon. Opposition Members: Under Her.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: I heard my colleagues from the UPND asking how many people have come back to this House. When I was expelled and people went to campaign against me, I said on the Floor of the House that I would make sure that all those that went to campaign against me did not come back to the House, except Hon. Kakoma and that is what has happened. So I can assure the hardworking hon. Minister that come 2011, at least in my province, this Government will still get the majority vote because of what has happened in the mining sector.
Mr Speaker, during the Government of 1991 to 2001, Kansanshi Mine had big buildings, a hospital, school and so forth, but they were all razed down. Hon Kakoma will agree with me on this.
Mr Kakoma nodded.
Mr Tetamashimba: Thank you very much.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, that is my constituency and that is why it was sometimes difficult to campaign, but all I said was, ‘No, the ones who did this are now in this other party’ and the people agreed …
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: … so we are very grateful that this Government has revived the mining activities in the North-Western Province and in Solwezi in particular.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Tetamashimba: Anybody who talks about the economy, whether they are abroad, does not leave out the North-Western Province and Solwezi. We are now talking of oil. In our province we do not talk like some hon. Members of Parliament who want to talk about tribes.. The people who vote for me in my constituency are not Kaondes. There are few Kaondes, but the majority are other tribes.
Mr Kambwili: They are Congolese.
Mr Tetamashimba: I do agree, but the problem with hon. Members of Parliament is that when they go into the Congo, they are the ones that say, ‘No, we come from here, we are in Zambia’ …
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: All of us came from the Congo. We came from Kola. I am surprised that people who came from the Congo are talking about it, and yet they are from Kola. If they are not Bemba then they are not from Kola. So, all of us came from the Congo. The Lozis were the first …
Hon Opposition Members: No!
Mr Tetamashimba: … to go that side and come here. Of course, I agree that we must be united as Zambians and that is why governance is not restricted to a few people. Every Zambian must have the opportunity to govern. Governance should be for people who have integrity, can fight corruption and can do everything that the people want.
We would like to hear the other parties, especially that some have outgoing presidents and want new people to take over, announce, like President Mwanawasa, that they will not support corrupt leaders and plunderers to be president of this country. We hope that those who are retiring in the Opposition are going to say the same things. Those that are retiring should also be telling their leaders not to go outside the country to get money to bring into Zambia …
Mr Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.
Mr Speaker: Before business was suspended, the hon. Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing was speaking. May he continue.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended,, I was just winding up my debate on corruption and stated that we must give credit to President Mwanawasa. When he was second in the leadership of this country; the second most powerful person in the country; a person who does not walk from Lusaka to Solwezi, but has to fly, he resigned his position because of the corrupt activities in that Government.
Hon. PF Members: Questionable!
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, we know that one of the reasons for his resignation was that he had some misunderstanding with a leader who is now organising an Opposition Political Party, and that is a fact.
Mr Speaker, in this House, we made laws and all of us accepted to pass a law for us to have the National Constitution Conference (NCC) in place.
Mr Speaker: Order! I cannot follow the debate, there is so much debating on the Floor.
May you continue, the House will listen.
Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, I want to thank the Zambian people because I thought that the Members of Parliament who attended the NCC were the only people who knew about the integrity of Hon. Chifumu Banda, SC. It came to pass that everybody had confidence in this son of the soil from the East.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Tetamashimba: I want to congratulate Hon. Banda for that achievement and also the Chairperson, hardworking Member of Parliament from the Southern Province …
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Tetamashimba: … and a genuine law-abiding citizen.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Musokotwane nodded her head.
Mr Tetamashimba: I also wish to congratulate Hon. Sakwiba Sikota, Hon. Grace Njapau on their election to the Disciplinary Committee of the NCC.
Mr Speaker, when we discovered that they were many credible people from the Opposition like ourselves, we thought that there was no need for us to take part in the NCC functions, but gave them to chair the NCC. This is the first of its kind in the MMD.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Tetamashimba: Again, I stand on behalf of the people of North-Western Province, because I have been in this House longer than anybody else, to say that they are very grateful to President Mwanawasa, SC for telling them that there are oil and diamond deposits in the Western Province. The oil which is there is not for the people of North-Western Province alone, but for all Zambians to benefit from the natural resources that we have in our country.
Therefore, we want to appeal to some of you, especially my brothers from the Southern Province who have no land to start trekking to the North Western Province for land.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: Do not waste your time scrounging for land where there is no land. Please, come to the North-Western Province, we have plenty of land. Most of you have been to our province and you have seen that there is land. If this land were for the southerners or easterners, there would have been a lot of food in this country. So, please come, we are ready to accommodate all of you because we are Zambians.
With these few remarks, I want to appeal to the hon. Members of Parliament who do not want to implement laws that they make here to, please, come to the NCC and pretend that you are going there under duress because you are already accusing us that we are trying to put laws to bar people from standing for some positions. We are not going to make such laws because human rights give chance to everybody even those who are hundred years to aspire to every position. So, we are not going to do that.
Laughter
Mr Tetamashimba: We want to accommodate anyone who the Zambian people can allow at any age to aspire for any position. Therefore, for those who think that we are trying to bar their president because he is old, it is not us, but you yourselves who want to bar him by not attending the NCC. Now that you have failed, you are trying to send messages for us to try and block him. We are not going to do that because you are trying to mislead us.
I thank you, Sir.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Order!{mospagebreak}
Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, first and foremost, I would like to state categorically that if, indeed, talking good about the Government even when they have made mistakes is a way to get development to your constituency, the people of Roan would rather stay without development for that matter.
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: The duty of the Opposition is to observe the mistakes and ask the Government to correct those mistakes. If you expect the Opposition to support you even where you are wrong, then I am not part of that Opposition.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: This piece of speech by His Excellency, Dr Mwanawasa, SC, is a very good speech. However, the question is: How many years since this New Deal Government came into power have we seen good speeches? We see very good and brilliant speeches almost every year, but at the end of the year, what do we hear, K900 billion has been sent back to the Treasury. This is nothing unless there is implementation. It is like counting your chicks before they are hatched. This is just at the level of laying eggs. For now we need to know what is going to come out of the President’s Address.
It is wrong for anyone to ask others to say ‘hear, hear’ even when something is wrong. Tell the President the truth if you do not want people to say ‘questionable’. After giving the President wrong information that 150 constituency offices have been established, you expected people to be quiet and say ‘hear, hear’. It does not work that way.
The President is giving a key note speech which everybody in the world is paying attention to, then he goes and say, all offices in 150 constituencies have been established, and yet my neighbouring constituency belonging to Hon. Jean Phiri has no office at all. So, you expect me to keep quiet and say ‘hear, hear’. Therefore, let us tell the President the truth so that when he addresses the nation, he should be telling the truth which we will agree to.
In his Address, the President spoke about the taxation in the mines and we supported him. It is surprising to see that you expect us to support him even when he is not telling the truth. We are here to observe.
Therefore, whoever misled the President is the one who is supposed to be responsible for the “questionable” that I shouted.
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: It is not my fault that the President was misled.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: With regard to the NCC, you see, to come to this House and start telling people that those who are now presidents of small parties are the people that messed up is not right.
Ms Mumbi: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: It is wrong to say that your President resigned the position of Vice-Presidency because of corruption. He left because he complained that Hon. Sata was not respecting him.
Hon. Government Members murmur.
Mr Kambwili: That is a fact which is on record. You people come here and cheat that he left because of corruption. It is not true that he left because of corruption. He left because he had no vigour to control his ministers and that was his and nobody’s fault.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: He was Vice-President and as such, he had the authority. However, because he had no ability to push the ministers, he got scared and ran away.
Interjections
Mr Kambwili: Advise him in future that ngafyakosa kushipafye. You do not run away. Ten years later, he comes to say he left because of corruption. We know what happened.
Interjections
Mr V. Mwale: Uzalakwa iwe!
Mr Kambwili: To say that there was a consultative process; a broad consultative process with regard to the NCC is not right. Hon. Members, we must learn to tell the truth. The NGOs said let us be included in the process. The provisions in the Act were that we pick prominent people from one province. Who selected those prominent people?
Ms Mumbi: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: Which party did they belong to? The Opposition and the Church was not there. Who was choosing those prominent people? Who did you consult to choose those prominent people? The issue is that you put in an inbuilt majority in the NCC.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: I will stand here next time after you pass this Constitution. My father used to tell me that if you want to defeat somebody, from the onset, you should not show it. Therefore, by electing other people from other political parties, we know your intentions. You will come and say that MMD passed a wrong Constitution when the chairperson was Chifumu Banda, the vice-chairperson was Nkandu Luo and Hikaumba was there.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: That is what you are planning. You are blindfolding these people. However, you will have problems the day they will realise what you are up to.
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, you cannot play football against a team of twenty and expect to win. You cannot win when there are ten of you and you want to play football against a team of twenty. The law states clearly that decisions shall be made by way of voting. Therefore, when you reach an issue which you want to pass, you will have to vote. When you vote, you will win. That is why, I, Chishimba Kambwili, will not be part of the NCC.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr V. Mwale: Good riddance!
Mr Kambwili: The President said something about human rights on page 14 and I quote:
Hon. Government Member interjected.
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: The President said on page 14 and I quote:
“In particular, the Government will continue to ensure that the Constitution and fundamental rights and freedoms are respected”
Are we observing this? Just in the case of Hon. Mwila. The offence he was charged for was a bailable one, but you interfered as politicians that he should be put in the cells …
Hon. Government Members murmur.
Mr Kambwili: … when you know that somebody can just go to the police to give statements, get arrested and given a police bond, …
Hon. Government Members: Point of order!
Mr Kambwili: … but you interfered. We do not want political interference in issues of human rights. It is a right for one to be given bail. You are the people who are supposed to lead by example. When you do not lead by example, do not expect other Zambians to follow. Therefore, do not come here and make pronouncements for which you are culprits. It is not helping anybody. Politics of appeasement have to come to an end if this country has to prosper.
Mr Speaker, the reason when the President makes good pronouncements they are not implemented is because some of you people do not to tell him the truth. Instead of saying, “Mr President we are not popular on the Copperbelt”, you tell him that,” you are very popular and you are winning”.
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: When the elections come, it is eight thousand to two thousand votes.
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: Tell the truth and shame the devil. If you do not tell the President the truth, we shall forever have very good policies, but they shall never be implemented. This speech, indeed, is good. I want to congratulate President Mwanawasa on this speech. However, it is you there (Government side) who take K900 billion back to the Treasury when the Roan-Mpatamatu Road has not been worked on. The road was allocated K3 billion. You take the money back to the Treasury and then this year, you give us K2.5 billion. What kind of administration is that?
We expected you to allocate even more money to this road, but you reduce it by K500 million and then you come here and give a very good flowery speech when you know that you are not going to implement most of the pronouncements. Even where you are seated, you are just saying we have duped them.
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, with regard to the issue of the media in rural areas, yes, the people of the rural areas voted for the MMD, but the reason is simple. There are no newspapers, radios …
Laughter
Ms Mumbi: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: The people are not informed. The people on the line of rail who are well informed because of the media voted according to what is obtaining on the ground, but the people in the far flung areas, in the rural areas where there is no media, voted otherwise. You told them that you would give them fertiliser support, but today, fertiliser is marooned in the warehouses all over the country and you are not distributing it.
For instance, in Roan Constituency, I have 2800 bags of urea. I went to the trouble of finding out and I was told they could not give it out because the Government had not paid. Are you not the people that brought the Supplementary Budget to buy more fertiliser? Where have you taken the money? We want that money paid back. We want our people to get that fertiliser. Do you expect, when you do not deliver fertiliser, that I will come here and say “hear, hear!” What for?
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: I will only say “hear, hear!” when you do the correct thing. As long as you do your own things, I am ready to be sorted out for telling the truth and I will never be intimidated.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: The President has given a very good policy statement on the tax regime in the mining industry. What we expect now is to cushion the workers. Please reduce Pay-As-You-Earn so that our people can have a better take home pay. If we are going to get more money from the mines which we were not getting, it is only imperative that we now cushion the Zambian people.
The corruption that we are talking about in the Civil Service is as a result of paying those people low salaries.
Laughter
Hon. Government Member: Civil Service!
Mr Kambwili: How do you expect a person who is getting K700 thousand per month to look after K200 billion. He will dip his fingers into the coffers. Therefore, if you want to end corruption, pay those people well. Pay the teachers well.
We approved the Supplementary Budget for paying Settling in Allowance for new teachers. What has happened in Ndola? I told the hon. Minister that each school is paying those teachers K200 thousand. Is that what we approved? The minimum for those in basic schools is K870 thousand. The District Education Board Secretary pays in the whole of Ndola K200 thousand to each teacher. Where is the money? This is the problem that we have. Money is being misused, and yet nobody knows. Where are the checks and balances? Put in the checks and balances. If you do not put in the checks and balances, it will be difficult for us to support your Budget. How can money meant for the settlement of the teachers go elsewhere? Hon. Minister, I urge you to follow up this issue and bring the culprits to book in Ndola. Those teachers need their money because it was meant for them.
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: You see, it all starts with ministers and end with ministers. The President talked about climate change. He talked about the need to do everything possible to make sure that we do not pollute our environment. It is in this House where I raised the question on over smoking vehicles on the streets to the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources. When the hon. Minister stood up to answer the question, he said, ‘If the car was smoking, take it to the garage. It is not my problem.’
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: Surely, are we serious? Over smoking vehicles have a negative impact on the environment, but the hon. Minister says if the vehicle is faulty, take it to the garage. Hon. Minister, in other countries, before a vehicle is licensed there is a law to go and check its pollution. Do the same! Do not tell me it is not your problem, because it is your problem.
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, Copperbelt is the engine of Zambia’s economy.
Hon. Government Members: Not any more.
Mr Kambwili: How can you give us 4.7 percent of the total Road Development Agency (RDA) Budget for the roads? Where are we going? We have a lot of bad roads on the Copperbelt. Surely, Ba Minister, twapapata, think about us. 4.7 percent is not enough. Give us enough money to look after our roads.
Mr Speaker, we are talking about infrastructure development. I told that hon. Minister of Education. He is not there.
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: I told Hon. Lungwangwa that there is a school in my constituency whose roof was blown off by the wind and about seven classrooms have no roofs. He told me that he was going to look into it. We went to our constituencies and we came back in October and November. When I asked him, he said, ‘I am still looking into it.’ In the meantime, the roof for that school has not been repaired up to now and the school has not opened. When I phoned the District Education Secretary (DEBS), I was told they had not received the money. I phoned Hon. Lungwangwa to remind him that he told me that he released some money to repair the school. I then phoned the DEBS in Luanshya and gave him the phone so that he could talk to the DEBS, but he said he does not speak to juniors.
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: Do not be academic. You must be able to speak to everybody. Do not be selective. That is not good leadership!
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: Do not be bossy!
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: A DEBS is a human being. He is not a dog!
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: So you must be able to talk to him for you to know exactly what is obtaining on the ground. Do not say, “I do not talk to juniors”.
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: Therefore, Hon. Lungwangwa, in absentia, …
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: … if I had the powers to won you, I was going to do that.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: However, I am appealing to you …
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: Sir, with regard to the equal pay for equal work that the President spoke about – you people why do you mislead the President?
Mr Mubika: You are misleading Sata also!
Laughter
Mr Kambwili: In the mining industry, a G1’s salary is in the range of K1.8 million to about K2.3 million. The expatriate G1s salary is US$9000. Where is the equal pay you are talking about? You go and mislead your President and he even puts it in his Address. He said we had achieved the equal-pay-for-equal-work in his Address. What have you achieved? Muleyenda! You should be travelling! Go and see what is obtaining on the ground.
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: You do not to talk to the DEBS and that is why you cannot have information about what is obtaining on the ground. You prefer talking to the Permanent Secretary who is found in Lusaka than talking to the DEBS who is found on the ground. You must talk to the Copperbelt Permanent Secretary and you will get the right information. You must talk to the DEBS in Luanshya and Fisenge and you will get the correct information. Otherwise, you will continue misleading the nation if you continue refusing to talk the DEBS. Politics is about talking to everybody, including the lowest person in the country. If you cannot talk to them, then go back to the university and continue lecturing.
Interruptions
Mr Kambwili: Sir, our Education Sector has been poorly funded. Surely, even my son would know that K2.9 million per three months given to a basic school cannot run a basic school. What is happening in my constituency at the moment is that almost all the schools have been disconnected from water and electricity. Please, Hon. Magande, increase the allocation. If you go in the toilets- I was there with ZNBC when we were checking. We could not even go enter the toilets. There was faecal matter all over because there is no water. Lets us increase the allocation for basic schools so that our children can go to dignified schools. Your children are going to international schools, but afford those children who are going to Government schools a better learning environment. Do not be selfish.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kambwili: Therefore, when you talk about education, provide what the people want. For you, when there is a Parents Teachers Association (PTA) meeting and you are asked to pay K200 million, you pay faster, but those people cannot afford. It is, therefore, your duty to provide for their basic needs.
You have been telling us about the free education that you introduced. Hon. Lungwangwa has been telling us that books are given to schools. To the contrary, my constituency has been receiving help from Luanshya Copper Mines and I. We have been giving books to Grade 8 pupils in the constituency. You have not taken books there. Do not come here and mislead the nation. Do the right thing! You found money to pay for the National Constituency Conference (NCC) very quickly. Why are you failing to find money to pay for better education?
Interruptions
Mr V. Mwale: Mutikumbwila cabe!
Mr Kambwili: Be responsible! There are no drugs in the hospitals, but you are saying that you have excelled in the health sector. Where have you excelled? My hospital, Section 27 Clinic, sometimes does not even have chloroquine, but you claim, in this House, that you have excelled in education. Mwashuka fye inshita ya pwa!
Mr Speaker: Order, the hon. Member’s time is over!
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order! Where I am sitting, right here, I enjoy listening to both skilled and clumsy debaters.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Who is a skilled debater? It is one who knows what he or she is talking about and has his or her facts well organised and, therefore, well presented. The skilled debater always addresses the Chair …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: … because he or she knows that by addressing the Chair, he or she is protected by the Chair.
However, a clumsy debater ignores all that …
Laughter
Mr Speaker: … and begins to launch into a fray with the rest of the House.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: He or she then excites very loud interjections.
Laughter
Mr Speaker: The more the interjections, the louder and clumsier …
Laughter
Mr Speaker: … he gets. Well if any of you wants to spend their current five years debating clumsily, go ahead!
Laughter
Mr Speaker: However, I would like to encourage all of you to be skilled debaters. Follow the rules of the House.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Get your facts organised, address the Chair and you will see the rest of the House listening to you. Therefore, let us listen to the next debater and we shall assess.
Laughter
Ms Mumbi (Munali): I thank you Mr Speaker …
Mr Mubika: She is another one.
Mr Kambwili: We know that we are one sided.
Ms Mumbi: Hon. Member, please, let me debate freely because I will mention your name and everyone will listen to whatever you are interjecting or saying …
Mr Speaker: You have already done very badly
Laughter
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Munali may continue.
Ms Mumbi: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my word to the good President’s Speech which was given to this House.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Mumbi: Sir, I agree with what the President said, but I sympathise with him because the staff he is working with are not helping him at all. Why we even had some interjections when the President was speaking is because of the misleading information which goes to him from some of the hon. Ministers.
Sir, up to now, I do not even have a constituency office. Therefore, I do not think you expected me to acknowledge when the President was saying something which does not exist in my constituency. In future, it is important to do things right so that when the President comes to this House, he should be able to see the high morale which was here on Friday. Even us as the hon. Opposition Members gave him support. Also, to avoid what happened, please tell him the truth. You should be able to tell him what is happening on the ground.
Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the President for the way he talked about the NCC. I hope and pray that all members who have gone to the NCC have consulted their constituencies as the President said. I am one of those hon. Members who consulted their constituencies and have not been allowed to participate …
Interruptions
Ms Mumbi: … because of the reasons which were brought to this House. I am talking as Munali Member of Parliament and I know what I am saying.
Interruptions
Ms Mumbi: Mr Speaker, at the moment, I am able to move freely in my constituency without being attacked by anybody because I have followed what the people of my constituency have told me.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order! The House shall listen. The hon. Member may continue.
Ms Mumbi: Mr Speaker, thank you for that protection. What I am saying is the truth. That is why I am able to move freely and do not even need a bodyguard. I can go into Munali Constituency even at 23.00 hours and nobody can attack me. This is because I listen to what the people of Munali tell me. It is, therefore, not right for some hon. Members to attack those who did not go to the NCC just because their constituencies allowed them.
Sir, I would like to congratulate all those hon. Members who are part of the NCC. When you come up with a good Constitution I will be able to congratulate and pat you on your backs because I am one of those women who stand by the truth.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Mumbi: Mr Speaker, you saw how it was on Friday when His Excellency the President was giving his Speech. We agreed with what he said concerning the mineral royalties, but I was shocked to see that when we were happy supporting the President, the hon. Government Members were saying, “lelo mwasumina” meaning “today you have agreed”. Whom were you telling that? You should think twice. We have spoken concerning the review of mineral royalties several times in this House, but nothing has happened.
Sir, I recall, there was a Bill which was brought to this House to this effect, but hon. Government Members voted against it. Why were you nodding your heads when the President was delivering his Speech and giving an impression that we did not know what he was talking about? If you start working according to the President’s Speech, this country is going to move forward. We should think about how we will lead our constituencies in order to do better than people we have succeeded. I do not look at the past failures. I look at what I am able to do today as hon. Member of Parliament for Munali.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Mumbi: Why should I look at the past experiences? Let us not blame anybody. The ball is in everyone’s hands.
Mr Speaker, I am one of those women who have been disadvantaged even by this House when we talk about gender equality. I do not think there is any man in this House who is being referred to as Hon. Joseph. I am saying so because in this House, I am referred to as Hon. Mumbi. Mumbi is my maiden name. It is not even my surname. The fact that I was disadvantaged at the time of elections, I am being referred to by my first name. Is that fair when everybody knows that I am Mrs Phiri?
Interruptions
Ms Mumbi: Yes, my surname is actually Malama and not Mumbi. Mumbi is like Josephine.
Interruptions
Ms Mumbi: You mean you did not know? I have told you and I have spoken. You should not even pretend.
Interruptions
Ms Mumbi: Hon. Members, let me speak.
Hon. Mubika interrupted.
Ms Mumbi: Mr Speaker, I need your protection from Hon. Mubika.
Interruptions
Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member needs protection …
Laughter
Mr Speaker: … and the Chair is offering that protection.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Ms Mumbi: Mr Speaker, thank you very much. What I am saying is the truth. I am sure His Honour the Vice-President can bear me witness. I am Mrs Phiri and nobody gets married at the age of sixteen when I got my National Registration Card. Why were those bad rules introduced during elections and supported? I think they wanted to confuse people. People knew me as Mrs Phiri and they were calling me Ms Mumbi. I tried to talk to them, but nothing happened. I hope the hon. Minister of Gender and Women in Development is going to do something about it this time. Being a woman, I am sure she was also affected. She was lucky if she had her National Registration Card before she came to the election.
Mr Speaker, on the same issue of gender equality, we have a lot of women who are being disadvantaged. I will go back to the twenty-nine girls who were not allowed to write their examinations. I hope the hon. Minister of Gender and Women in Development, as promised, has done her homework to see to it that the girls go back to school this year.
Mr Speaker, let me talk about pollution. Not too long ago, we had a situation of pollution in Mufulira. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources if the Director for NWASCO was in order to say that that the people who developed diarrhoea and vomiting were suffering from a syndrome of some sort. He did not specify if he was referring to cholera or HIV/AIDS. This issue confused me. How possible is it that people from one area can have HIV/AIDS? Now, there is a fight between the Environmental Council of Zambia and NWASCO. Who has the authority to talk about the pollution in areas? People in Mufulira were threatened and some of them even lost their lives. Is it fair to protect the investors at the expense of our people’s lives?
Interruptions
Ms Mumbi: The Mopani Copper Mines are investors if you are not aware, hon. Members. They are not Zambians. Therefore, is it in order for this Government to be protecting the investors?
Mr Speaker, with these few words, I beg to sit.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Order!
(Debate adjourned)
_______
ADJOURNMENT
The Vice-President (Mr Banda): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.
Question put and agreed to.
_______
The House adjourned at 1910 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 16th January, 2008.