DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 5th February, 2008

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

____

ANNOUNCEMENTS

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, in the absence of His Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other national duties, Hon. G. W. Mpombo, MP, Minister of Defence, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Tuesday, 5th to Friday, 8th February, 2008.

I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

APPOINTMENT OF MR H. I. MWANZA AS DEPUTY CHIEF WHIP

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, following the appointment of Mr H. I. Mwanza, MP, as Deputy Chief Whip, I wish to inform the House that Mr I. Banda, MP, has been appointed to serve on the Committee on Information and Broadcasting Services in place of Mr H. I. Mwanza, MP.

Mr H. I. Mwanza, MP, continues to serve on the Standing Orders Committee.

Thank you, again.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

HOUSING ALLOWANCE FOR TEACHERS

99. Mr Kambwili (Roan) asked the Minister of Education why the Government continued to pay housing allowances to teachers which were far below the market rental charges.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, housing allowance is arrived at through the negotiation table between the union and the Government. It is an allowance that cuts across the entire Public Service.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, the Government’s responsibility is to look after its citizens. In your view as Government, is it in order to pay housing allowance that is only fit to rent servants’ quarters to our dear teachers?

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, this is a matter for the bargaining unit where negotiations take place.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, whilst we appreciate that this allowance is done through negotiations, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the position of the Government because the monies come from the Government. What is the position of the Government?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the principle of negotiation is binding.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, is the ministry aware that because of that arrangement, the integrity of teachers is eroded and that they are not respected by children, especially those children who come from posh homes who find it hard to be taught by teachers who are renting servants quarters?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member’s comment is subjective and her own judgement.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he knows that the money that the teachers get as housing allowance, will only be able to give them accommodation which has no electricity and this will compromise their work. What is Government doing about it?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, this goes back to the principle of negotiation which is a determining factor in the process.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Education whether when we have teachers in our constituency who do not have accommodation, and if the constituency provides land for these teachers, the ministry in a position to give them loans to build their own houses.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, provision of loans is part of the incentives which the ministry has embarked upon to enable us address some of the constraints our teachers are facing.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm: there are teachers in my constituency that have been threatened with eviction by their landlords. Have those teachers who have been evicted been given housing allowances to build houses?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member gives us the specifics of the question, we shall be able to investigate and provide the facts.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Phiri (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, we have a problem with the union. I would like to know whether the hon. Minister would intervene if the union came up with a figure of K1.5 million as housing allowance.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I am sure the hon. Member knows the principles of bargaining and that bargaining terms are not a subject of debate outside the unit.

I thank you, Sir.

SUPPLY OF SOLAR POWER TO CHIEF PHIKAMALAZA’S PALACE

100. Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development when Chief Phikamalaza’s Palace would be supplied with solar power.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Sichilima): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the function of providing solar power to chiefs’ palaces was transferred to the Rural Electrification Authority (REA). This is in order to facilitate quick implementation of the project.

The installation programme for this year has been sub-divided into eight lots. Chief Phikamalaza is in the third lot and the palace is expected to be electrified using solar power by mid this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the provision of solar energy to chief’s palaces only serves the chiefs in the villages. Would the hon. Minister consider extending this to wind energy which would be able to supply the local community with power instead of only chiefs in order to improve livelihood in rural areas.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, we do agree that we need to provide electrical energy to communities. To that effect, the Rural Electrification Master Plan will look at other options other than just solar energy. In such areas we will consider options such as wind energy.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, I would the hon. Minister to inform this House how he is going to manage the allocation of K20 billion this year.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister is free to give a bonus answer.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I think the budget will address that.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF A HIGH SCHOOL IN MKUSHI SOUTH CONSTITUENCY

101. Mr Chisanga (Mkushi South) asked the Minister of Education whether there were any plans to build a high school in Mkushi South Parliamentary Constituency and, if so, when.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, there is a high school being built in Mkushi South at Fiwila Mission funded by the Anglican Church. So far, a one by three classroom block and one teacher’s house have been completed.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisanga stood up to speak without Mr Speaker’s permission.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chisanga: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that Fiwila Mission is not in Mkushi South but in Mkushi North?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, maybe, the boundary that the hon. Member is referring to is outdated but the information that we have is that Fiwila Mission is in Mkushi South.

I thank you, Sir.

GAME MANAGEMENT AREAS ALONG THE ZAMBIA/MALAWI BORDER

102. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) whether there were Game Management Areas along the Zambia/Malawi border, particularly between Chief Mwasemphangwe’s area and the Kasungu National Park; and

(b) what measures the Government had taken to protect Zambians from being harassed or killed by Malawian game scouts along the common border.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Chilembo): Mr Speaker, there are no Game Management Areas (GMAs) between Chief Mwasemphangwe and Kasungu National Park in Malawi.

Mr Speaker, with regard to part (b) of the question, the Governments of Zambia and Malawi discussed this matter at the last Joint Permanent Commission of Co-operation (JPCC) held in Malawi in 2006 at which an undertaking was made to protect the Zambians from being harassed or killed by Malawian game scouts along the common border. In addition, the Memorandum of Understanding between the two countries on the establishment of the Malawi-Zambia Transfrontier Conservation Area has put in place measures aimed at co-managing the resources within the common border areas which include protection of both human life and wildlife.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr I. Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether we have a clear boundary along the same area.

Mr Chilenbo: Mr Speaker, we have a clear boundary in this particular place.

I thank you, Sir.

APPLICATIONS FOR CITIZENSHIP

103. Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) how many foreign nationals applied for Zambian citizenship from 2000 to 2007, year by year;

(b) from which countries the applicants at (a) above were; and

(c) how many Zambians applied for citizenship in European and African countries in the above period, year by year and by gender.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Bonshe): Mr Speaker, to answer this question, I have combined (a) and (b) and wish to inform the House as follows:

 Year Number of  Nationality
Applicants
 
 2000 24 01 Sri-Lankan, 07 Zimbabweans, 06 Indians, 01 Congolese, 
   02 Nigerians, 01 Tanzanian, 01 Pakistani, 01 Somalian, 01 Russian 
   And 03 Malawian

 2001 19 10 Indians, 01 Pakistani, 01 Tswana, 01 Congolese, 02 Malawian
   01 Zimbabwean, 01 Tanzanian, 01 Yugoslav, and01 Somalian.

2002 16 01 Somalian, 01 Ukrainian 05 Zimbabwean, 05 Indians, 
   01 Sri-Lankan, 02 Yugoslav and 01 Malawian

 2003 29 03 Malawians, 01 Tswana, 07 Zimbabweans, 08 Indians,
   01 Russian, 04 Congolese, 02 South Africans, 02 British and 
   01 Tanzanian.

 2004 28 02 Malawians, 02 Tanzanians, 01 Somalian, 02 Congolese, 
   01 Ghanaian, 01 Sotho, 01 Ukrainian, 07 Indians, 11 Zimbabweans

 2005 71 36 Indians, 16 Zimbabweans, 01 Congolese, 04 Tanzanians, 
   01 Portuguese, 01 Ukrainian, 04 Somalians, 05 Malawians, 
   01 Uganda, 01 Pakistan, and 01 British

 2006 165 115 Indians, 02 British, 01 Greek, 13 Somalians, 05 Congolese, 
   09 Zimbabweans, 05 Pakistan, 11 Tanzanians, 01 South African
   01 Mozambican, 01 Palestine, and 01 Malawian.

 2007 226 37 Zimbabweans, 10 Pakistanis, 106 Indians, 08 British, 
   17 Tanzanians, 06 Kenyans, 01 Sudanese, 05 Lebanese, 01 South 
   African, 01 Ethiopian, 01 Bangladesh, 01 Mauritanian, 01 Italian, 
   02 Malawians, 01 Iranian, 01 Sri-Lankan, 01 Mozambican, 
   02 Ghanaians, 15 Somalians, 01 Eritrean and 08 Congolese

Mr Speaker, below is a table of the Zambians who applied for citizenship in European and African countries between the year 2000 and 2007 and their gender.

Year  No. of applicants No. Gender  Citizenship Acquired
  Who renounced  
  Zambian citizenship 
2000  123   68 Female  120 acquired
     55  Male  Zimbabwean and 03 acquired
        Kenyan citizenship

2001  664   239 Female  only one acquired South 
        African, 03 acquired German,
        01 acquired Yugoslav and
     425 Male  659 acquired Zimbabwean 
        Citizenship.

2002  04   01 Female  All the four acquired German
     03 Male  citizenship.

2003  256   114 Female  03 acquired British, 04 Swiss, 
     142 Male  01 acquired Italian, and 248 
        Zimbabwean citizenships.

2004  139   69 Female  All the 139 acquired
     70  Male  Zimbabwean citizenship

2005  237   168 Female  06 acquired Tswana and
     69 Male  231 acquired Zimbabwean
        Citizenship

2006  62   30 Female  All the 62 acquired 
     32 Male  Zimbabwean citizenship

2007  91   44 Female  02 acquired Tanzanian
     47 Male  89 acquired Zimbabwean
        Citizenship.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Judging from the discussions on the Floor while the hon. Minister of Home Affairs was answering, I take it that the House was not interested in all that information. However, if the hon. Member wants to follow up, I would like to give him the Floor.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, from the statistics, it is proven that many Indians sought to be Zambian citizens and that many Zambian females have sought to be citizens of foreign countries. What reasons have they advanced for their citizenships?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Mr Speaker, the women nationals who want to renounce their Zambian citizenship when they get married to other nationals tend to ask that they become nationals of those countries where their husbands originate from. For the Indians who have come, it is just that Zambia is a good country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwenzi): Mr Speaker, may I know from the ministry what collective measures have they put in place for those who have been given the Zambian citizenship so that they do not enjoy duo citizenship?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, according to the laws in Zambia, no person is supposed to hold duo nationality before the citizenship is granted. They are supposed to publicly renounce the citizenship of the countries they come from and the certificate should be issued by that country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Mr Speaker, is there any law or procedure followed when a Zambian renounces his/her citizenship on account of marriage when they are divorced and they want to re-apply so that they revert to Zambian citizenship?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the law allows for anyone’s citizenship to be restored. Of course, they have to pay a fee and then the restoration of citizenship is given by the Citizenship Board.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, will the hon. Minister kindly inform the House how many of the applicants were successful because this question was for those who applied. Should I take it that all those that applied were successful in their applications to acquire Zambian citizenship or is there a difference?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the answer is basically for those whose citizenship applications to be Zambians was granted. For those whose citizenships were applied for other countries, they were also were granted and the answer was given to the House.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, at Chisokone and Soweto markets, there are many Congolese holding green Zambian National Registration Cards. Going by the answer given by the Deputy Minister of Home Affairs, each year, there was only one Congolese who applied. How did these Congolese, then, manage to become Zambians?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, we are not aware of the records that the hon. Member of Parliament for Luanshya is bringing, but it would help for us if he gave us details and information for us, as a ministry, to investigate. We are not aware of so many Congolese holding National Registration Cards at Chisokone Market and whether these were issued last year. 

I thank you, Sir.

LUSAKA LOCAL COURT BUILDINGS

104. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Justice when construction of buildings at the Lusaka Local Courts opposite the Central Police Station would be completed.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Mr Speaker, the unfinished building near the Lusaka Local Courts opposite the Central Police Station does not belong to the Judiciary. The Judiciary, therefore, has no jurisdiction over the state of the building. I am, therefore,  unable to say as to when the buildings will be completed.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

ADULT LITERACY CLASSES IN NANGOMA

105. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services how many community adult literacy classes were in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Chinyanta): Mr Speaker, there are fourteen adult literacy classes in Nangoma Constituency which are all active. These are Lutwane, Zumanana, Chinkupe, Kabula (a) and (b), Atusole (a) and (b), and Matelo. The number of students in each class as well as the literacy instructors is provided in the appendix which I lay on the Table.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Chinyanta laid the paper on the Table.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

MODERN MARKETS IN MULOBEZI PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

106. Mr Mabenga (Mulobezi) asked the Minister of Local Government and Housing when modern markets would be built at Mulobezi, Sichili and Bwina townships in Mulobezi Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mr Tetamashimba): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Government has plans to build public markets in all the districts in Zambia including Sesheke where Mulobezi, Sichili and Bwina townships are found.

Mr Speaker, modern markets may not be ideal as of now in Sichili and Mulobezi areas, but a public market would do.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Currently, my ministry is implementing a programme called Market Rehabilitation and Maintenance whose objective is to repair, rehabilitate and maintain existing markets in all the districts.

Mr Speaker, in recent years, my ministry has expanded its programme to cover small scale construction of public markets in some districts and Sesheke is one of the Districts which have already benefited from this exercise.

To this effect, my ministry released K80 million to Sesheke District in December, 2007, for the small scale construction of markets and rehabilitation of the existing ones. I hope the hon. Member of Parliament has gotten this information from the Council Secretary.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker called for the next question, but Hon. Lubinda indicated.

Hon. Members interjected

Mr Speaker: Well, he is satisfied with the answer. What do you want me to do? Oh, the hon. Member is not satisfied with the answer.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, I seek clarification from the hon. Minister on what he means when he says the people of Sichili do not serve a modern market but require a public market. What is the distinction between a public market and a modern market if that public market is to be built this year? Can he please clarify that?  Can he also indicate why the people of Sichili do not deserve what, in his view, is a modern market?

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for that question. If I can be allowed to repeat and quote my answer as follows:

“Mr Speaker, modern markets may not be ideal as of now in Sichili and Mulobezi areas, but a public market would do.”

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, the difference between a modern market and what we are putting here as public market is that if you go to Soweto Market, we are putting up a modern market which can take over 20,000 people in an area and obviously such a modern market cannot be in any of the rural areas, including Kalomo.

Hon. Muntanga: Aah!

Mr Tetamashimba: It is the other smaller markets which can fit the environment in Mulobezi.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, the fact that the hon. Minister realises or is trying to classify Kalomo to be on the same level as Sichili and Mulobezi, and that we do not require modern markets, may I know from him how many people would qualify a place to have a modern market. If, say, we have 20,000 or 10,000 or 5,000 people, I want to know the number of people that would qualify a place such as Sichili, where the National Chairman comes from, for modern market.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, a public market and a modern market - like the Soweto Market - are both public markets, except that one is a modern market which is going to take in or accommodate people in big numbers. Both of them are public markets, but a modern market …

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: Mr Speaker, Soweto is a modern market, but it is also a public market. However, the modern market at Soweto is one that takes in a lot of people, like 20, 000 and above.

Laughter

Mr Tetamashimba: However, the one that we can put in a place like Kalomo, and even Mulobezi, is a small market which is also public, but a small market.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! Quite clearly the House is going nowhere with these semantics. I suggest we leave this matter alone.

Laughter

NCHANGA OPEN PIT FATAL ACCIDENT

107 Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a) when the findings of the fatal accident which happened at Nchanga Open Pit in 2001 would be published;

(b) how many people died in the accident; and

(c) how much compensation was paid to each affected family.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. B. Mwale): Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that while a number of men were working at the pit bottom of the Nchanga Open Pit, the south pit slope gave way and slid down to the bottom of the pit. Consequently, the men working below were buried by the ground. Rescue operations commenced immediately with stabilisation of the pit slope and continued up the 25th April, 2001, when the last body was retrieved.

Immediately after the accident on 8th April, 2001, my ministry through the Mines Safety Department instituted investigations into the accident. Upon conclusion of these investigations, a report was circulated to the Mine Manager, the Mine Workers Union of Zambia (MUZ), the Commissioner of Police, the Coroner’s Office and the Administrators of the deceased estates.

Mr Speaker, the circulation of this report to the interested parties made findings of the investigation public. The findings of investigations into this accident became public in 2002 when the Mines Safety Department circulated the report to the concerned parties.

With regard to part (b) of the question, a total of ten people died in the accident.

Mr Speaker, as regards part (c) of the question, a total of K537,603,200 was paid in compensation by Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc to the victims of the accident. The appointed administrators of the estates of the deceased received payments ranging between K31,409,152 and K77,712,700.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what the Government has done to the people who contributed to the loss of lives of the miners at Nchanga Open Pit Mine.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, this accident was caused by the failure of the slope. In the rain season the cohesion of the ground is reduced causing slip zones. Therefore, the slope of that open pit collapsed and fell on the people who were working down below.

Sir, the House may wish to know that the Mine Manager and others were charged with manslaughter, but the courts acquitted them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, with regard to the compensation that was given to affected families, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether Mopani does take into consideration the Life Assurance Policy and what the value of a person is because the values indicated here are too low to be regarded as compensation for loss of life.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, this question is dealing with KCM and not Mopani. However, for the benefit of the hon. Member, I would like to inform this House that compensation is based on the following:

(a) length of service in the company;

(b) age of the deceased;

(c) salary scale of the deceased;

(d) under the Fatal Accidents Act (Loss of Dependence), number and age of dependants of the deceased, the possibility of the widow remarrying, and the ages of the minor dependants; and

(e) under the Law Reform (Miscellaneous Provisions) Act (Loss of Expectation of life), a standard minimal amount is usually awarded. Currently, the minimal amount is K5,000,000.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister stated in his answer that the instability of the slope was due to luck of soil cohesion because of rain. Now, if that is the case, it is common knowledge that mining activities in the pit continue even in the rain season. What measures has the ministry put in place to ensure that such an incident does not re-occur?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I thank you for that question from a miner. It is a well-known fact that at every open pit you take into consideration drainages. As regards Nchanga Open Pit Mine which has been in operation for a very long time, the following measures were taken:

(a) piezometres were installed along the pit walls for measuring the water level in the ground;

(b) a section was introduced within the Survey Section to specifically monitor slopes to all pits. Survey pegs were installed along all pit walls for continuous monitoring of ground movement. Data obtained is analysed in conjunction with the geotechnical department;

(c) the perimeter road on the southern side of the pit was shifted to a safer position by about 40 metres;

(d) a concrete lined drain was established along the perimeter of the pit to drain surface run off (rain water)away from the pit; and

(e) Geo-drain holes were drilled from the concrete lined drain towards the Muzabwera Township to de-saturate and depressurise the loose ground on the southern part of the pit.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development is monitoring what is happening at the mines.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the Mines Safety Department found a Mr Temba who was the Manager for Open Pit with a case of gross negligence to answer. What action did the department or management of KCM take against him?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member was listening, I stated that they were taken to court and courts of law acquitted them.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if KCM has done away with the standard formula of life assurance, that is, sixty months multiplied by one’s basic salary …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chanda: … because he has given us something else.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, in actual fact, those compensation figures confirm that insurance claims were taken care of.

I thank you, Sir.

GRADING OF ROADS

108. Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when the feeder roads in Choma Parliamentary Constituency would be graded; and

(b) what measures the Government had taken to ensure that feeder roads in the agricultural areas in the country were graded.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives is implementing the Agricultural Development Support Project (ADSP) financed by the World Bank at a cost US$6 million. The objective of the programme, among others, is to carry out the rehabilitation and maintenance of feeder roads in Chipata, Lundazi, Katete, Chongwe and Choma, respectively, using the output and performance-based road contract. The feeder roads under consideration are those leading to agricultural centres.

Mr Speaker, the maintenance of the feeder roads under this programme will comprise rehabilitation of the roads in the first nine months and this will be followed by continuous maintenance of the agricultural feeder roads for a period of four years and three months. The entire period of implementing the programme is five years.

Sir, the procurement of works for the agricultural feeder roads in Choma is in the process. The tender documentation is being finalised and tender for the maintenance of feeder roads is expected to be advertised in February, 2008. The contractors are expected to commence the works in June, 2008.

Sir, the roads identified and included in the programmes for Choma District are listed below:

Name of Road      Length ( Km)

Choma to RD622     34.128
Chubo to Chikanta     6.905
M11 Namwala Road to Munzele School  16.626
Macha to Chubo     17.377
Mapanza (M11) to Moobola    29.468
Munzele School to Macha    29.271
Pemba township boundary to Road M11
near Mapanza Mission    63.318
RD505 to Kabanza     6.995
Road M11 to Road D537-Macha Maize
Depot       13.299
Road T1 to Sibanyati Siding    13.5
Sibanyati Siding (D534) to Siachitema   15.07

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the Road Development Agency (RDA) in conjunction with the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives, is employing new concepts of ensuring that the maintenance of roads is carried out on a continuous basis by the using of output and performance based road contracts. These are long term contracts, usually three to five years long. The World Bank is supporting the ADSP in all the districts mentioned above.

Sir, further, the Ministry of Works and Supply, through the RDA, is implementing the programmes with external support from the co-operating partners.

Sir, the programmes include the following:

Rural (Feeder) Roads Rehabilitation in Central and North-Western provinces

Sir, the Government of the Republic of Zambia (GRZ) has received support from the European Commission for the rural/feeder road programme in Central and North-Western Provinces under the Road Sector Investment Programme (ROADSIP).

Mr Speaker, under this programme, approximately 1,320km of the feeder roads and rural district roads in Central and North Western provinces will be rehabilitated. A total budget of ZMK7.2 billion has been set aside for 2008 for the start of implementation of the programme in the two provinces. The programme has an implementation period of twenty-two months.

Rural Transport for Poverty Reduction in Southern Province

Sir, the Government has signed a Financing Agreement with the Government of the Federal Republic of Germany through KFW (a Germany Organisation) to invest in rural transport aimed at poverty reduction in Southern Province. Under this programme, a total of Euro15.68 million (about K88.5 billion) will be provided by KFW for improving rural roads in Southern Province. In 2008, the design phase of the programme will be implemented. Rehabilitation of 1,090 kilometres of feeder roads in Southern Province is targeted under this programme.

Rehabilitation of Feeder Roads Programme on the Copperbelt Province

The Government has received financing from the Organisation of Petroleum exporting Countries (OPEC) and the Arab Bank for Economic Development in Africa (BADEA) towards the cost of rehabilitating a total length of 768 kilometres of feeder roads in various districts of the Copperbelt Province. BADEA and OPEC will provide a total of US$12 million over a period of three years starting in 2008.

Feeder Roads Rehabilitation in Western Province

Sir, the Government has received financing from the Danish Government through the Danish International Development Agency (DANIDA) for the rehabilitation of feeder roads in Western Province. The ministry, through the RDA, has provided an amount of ZMK8 billion in the 2008 Annual Work Plan for the rehabilitation of 70 kilometres of feeder roads in Western Province.

Feeder Roads Rehabilitation Programme for all Provinces

Sir, the ministry, through the Road Development Agency, has provided an amount of ZMK23.6 billion in the Annual Work Plan for 2008 for the maintenance of rural roads countrywide through the district councils appointed as Roads Authorities. All the district councils will identify the roads to be included in the programme.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, in the past, the Government used to grade a main road once in a month. For feeder roads, the grading was done quarterly, which is every after three months. Looking at the need for these feeder roads, when shall we revert to this kind of system?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, I thought we had answered the principal question adequately. Now that the hon. Member wants extra information, it is important for him to know that we are bringing into this country 207 pieces of equipment that will be deployed in all the provinces to add on to this, in grading all the rural and feeder roads.

This equipment will be stationed in those provinces for as long as it will be available. It will not be moved from there. Therefore, all the roads that will be required to be done will be decided upon by the councils in those areas and that equipment will be there to do those roads.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, when are we going to revert to the old system of grading the main roads once a month, and the feeder roads, quarterly? We want an assurance from the hon. Minister.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member for Moomba is very conversant with the way the Roads Department used to operate, and I am sure he has the history of this department. In the early years, it was very good and did the works. In the later days, it was very bad and failed to do the works. It is for this reason that we came up with these three agencies that we are now experimenting with. The Government decided to bring in extra equipment because with the three agencies, we are limited to some extent with what we can do. We want to be fully present in rural areas where most of the money given to these agencies does not target. Afterwards, the Government will probably regress to the old system. However, for now, we want to try the new system and see how it will work.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, I would like find out from the hon. Minister of Works and Supply what guarantee there is that the money being donated for this cause will not be diverted elsewhere.

Mr Speaker, before, there was money that was donated …

Mr Speaker: Order!  Your question has been asked.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I would like to assure all the hon. Members of Parliament that the system has now been simplified. The issue of rural roads will now be discussed in local councils. The Government will channel the funds through the Ministry of Local Government and Housing to the local councils. All of us must ensure that we present our issues of roads at that level because after that the issue of which road is done will be decided by the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Mr Speaker, when is the KFW Programme in Southern Province commencing and which rural road in particular will be funded under this programme?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I am sure that the hon. Member is very interested. However, what we heard is that in 2008, the design phase of the programme will be implemented and this will take into account 1090 kilometres of feeder roads in Southern Province. Therefore, this programme starts this year. However, as to which roads are included, please, you can either go back to the council or the Roads Development Agency.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe): Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister talks about grading, I would like to find out what scope of work will take place. Do they add laterite since grading is not making our roads durable? You need laterite and other materials on it.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, in most cases, we do light grading or heavy grading with some spot gravelling. It depends on what kind of road we are dealing with. If you have some areas with soft grounds, we recommend gravelling in those spots. However, if the ground is very hard, we normally recommend grading.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, there was an assurance during the previous sitting, on the Floor of this House, from the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, that the Government has plans of procuring graders for each district. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether part of the equipment that he has talked about will go to districts as assured by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Ministry of Works and Supply may emphasise that answer. He has given it before.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I thank you and I thank the hon. Member for seeking a clarification. No, the equipment being procured is not going to be distributed to districts. It is being distributed to provincial capitals and, thereafter, it will work according to the plans that will come from the councils. We do not have enough equipment to give to each district. It is not possible.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: Order! May I guide the hon. Minister.

Are you referring to the same project that he says was referred to in this House by the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing or this is a different project?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, this is a very different project.

Interruptions

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Sir, I would like to know if there will be three sets of equipment for maintaining feeder roads as indicated in this House by, firstly, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, the hon. Minister of Works and Supply, and  the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing. We must have a clarification through you.

Mr Simbao: Thank you Mr President …

Laughter

Mr Simbao: Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Sir, maybe, I was a bit absent minded because I want to make the point very clear. We do have graders with some district councils.

Mr Munaile: Which are not working.

Mr Simbao: Well, yours might not be working, but others are working. This does not take away that power from these district councils. About what Hon. Masebo was saying, she still could be committed …

Hon. Member interjected

Mr Simbao: Yes, I do not know because I am not her. 

Mr Speaker, she could still be committed to ensuring that she buys graders for each district council.

At the moment, this equipment is under the Ministry of Works and Supply and will be controlled as such. It is going to do works in the rural areas. If it is possible that Hon. Masebo can afford a grader and all the other equipment required - because it is not just at a grader, there is a lot of equipment required – that is fine. There are about six, seven or nine pieces of different equipment to do these roads. If she can afford that for each district, it will be an addition and then we can handle the amount of road network in this country. We have in excess of 60,000 kilometres that we have to do. Even this amount of equipment that we are buying is not enough.

Therefore, we should not confuse the efforts being done by Ministry Local Government and Housing and the Ministry of Works and Supply. It all adds up to one thing.

Mr Magande: The Ministry of Finance signed a loan agreement.

Mr Simbao: I am told that I have left out one piece of information to insist that the Ministry of Finance and National Planning signed a loan agreement with the Chinese for the coming equipment that will be under the Ministry of Works and Supply, for the Government.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kasoko (Mwembeshi): Mr Speaker, the last five years after 2001 elections, the President, in 2002, came to this august House and told us that Government had ordered equipment from China which was going to be used by the Zambia National Service (ZNS) to grade the roads. In the last five years, we have not seen any grader from ZNS grading our roads. Again, in this year’s opening speech, the President put emphasis on ordering 117 pieces of equipment that were going to work on our roads. How are we going to trust Government’s assurances since it never implements them?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I want to assure the Member of Parliament that, this year, the President’s promise is being fulfilled. In fact, if it was not for the adverse weather China is undergoing right now, the equipment would be on the seas right now. The equipment has been paid for, procured and manufactured, just waiting to be shipped. It should be here by April or May.

I thank you, Sir.

________{mospagebreak}

MOTION

BUDGET 2008

(Debate resumed)

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Kazonga): Mr Speaker, thank you for allowing me to continue with my debate. As I indicated on Friday, I will focus my debate on one aspect that my ministry is looking at and this is the provision of water supply and sanitation.

Sir, it is now recognised that “water is life and sanitation is dignity.” This has led to the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) New Deal Government declaring water supply and sanitation a priority in the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) and the Vision 2030.

The issue of providing citizens with clean and safe drinking water and improved sanitation is cardinal at all times, be it during floods or droughts. Whereas droughts lead to a shortage of clean water as water sources may dry up, floods may contaminate the water sources and, therefore, affect the quality of our drinking water.

Mr Speaker, this year my ministry will, therefore, concentrate on implementing national programmes to improve water supply and sanitation services, introduce sustainable operations and maintenance systems. Poor operations and maintenance has led to the breakdown of systems and loss of infrastructure in spite of the heavy initial investment cost.

In total, it is envisaged that approximately K40 billion of Zambia’s domestic budget will be spent this year to improve water supply and sanitation services in all the parts of the country. In addition, the co-operating partners will contribute in the form of capital investments.

Sir, the main programmes that will be implemented based on the proposed budget are:

(i) National Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme, which will drill boreholes, construct protected wells and also promote the construction and usage of latrines in all the rural areas of our country;

(ii) Urban Water Supply and Sanitation Projects and the development of the Urban and Peri-Urban Water Supply and Sanitation Programme. This will rehabilitate the urban water treatment plants, distribution lines and tanks as well as sewerage treatment plants;

(iii) “Make Zambia Clean and Healthy Programme” to continue to raise awareness and promote cleanliness in all sectors;

(iv) The year 2008 was declared the International Year of Sanitation during which time the country should develop sufficient public sanitation facilities in all the towns. Currently, the towns do not have adequate facilities at public places such as the central business districts, markets and bus stations. The goal for the International Year of Sanitation is to raise awareness and to accelerate progress towards to the Millennium Development Goal (MDG) target to reduce by half the proportion of people without access to basic sanitation by the year 2015; and

(v) National Solid Waste Management Programme required keeping the environment clean and avoiding littering.

Mr Speaker, as stated earlier, the above programmes are all aimed at trying to achieve the Millennium Development Goals of halving the population without safe water supply and sanitation services by the year 2015 and generally improving the quality of life of people. So far, the proportion of people with water is only 37 per cent in rural areas whereas sanitation is only 13 per cent. It is, therefore, essential that Government continues to make improvements whilst safeguarding existing facilities.

My ministry will continue to improve the budget execution as was stated by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in his Budget Speech in paragraph 67, which says:

“The execution of the budget needs to be improved. This is particularly relevant with respect to the programmes that focus on the development of the rural areas.”

Sir, prevention is always better than cure. As such we are giving priority to water supply and sanitation so as to prevent diseases such as cholera and dysentery. If we succeed in doing this, then the health budget will drastically reduce. The proper disposal of human excreta is an essential and effective barrier against disease causing germs that are contained in or carried by faecal matter.

Diseases such as cholera, dysentery, typhoid and other diarrhoeal diseases kill people every year. These diseases spread through drinking water or eating food or licking fingers that have been contaminated by faecal matter. Every year, a lot of money is spent on treatment of such disease, whilst at the same time productivity is negatively affected as families attend to patients. This is because most water borne diseases are severe and can weaken a person within a matter of hours. Improved sanitation has a positive impact on economic growth and poverty reduction. Every dollar spent on improving sanitation generates an average economic benefit of about $7.00. The economic cost of inaction is astronomical. Without improving sanitation, none of the other millennium development goals, to which the world has committed itself, will be achieved.

Mr Speaker, it is the responsibility of every developer and landlord to construct adequate toilet facilities on their premises. Councils will also be encouraged to develop adequate public ablutions in the central business districts.

Mr Speaker, the National Rural Water Supply and Sanitation Programme will be implemented by local authorities and, therefore, I would like to urge all hon. Members of Parliament to actively participate in setting district priorities as members of councils. This is important because the full council should approve the district plans.

Similarly, the Urban and Peri-urban Water Supply and Sanitation Programme will be implemented by the commercial water utilities in various provinces. These also require the support of the hon. Members of the House, especially in combating vandalism and encouraging our residents to pay their bills on time. Many of the water utilities are still operating very old and dilapidated systems which need urgent rehabilitation. The national programme is therefore, intended to address these requirements and provide capital investments to improve overall coverage for the services.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I wish to thank this august House for supporting the Water Sector and taking an interest in the development of infrastructure in our districts. This is, indeed, important because the Water Supply and Sanitation Sector is key to the achievement of the MDGs in all the other sectors. The total budget of K399 billion may not be sufficient to deal with all outstanding requirements, but it should be put to good use to address the targets that are put forward for ourselves for the year 2008.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): I thank you, Mr Speaker, that you have given me an opportunity to make a contribution on the Motion on the Floor of this House.

Mr Speaker, I read through the Report provided by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, I was surprised that there was no mention of how the coal mining process will take place. The energy sector has been neglected and yet, it provides or has a provision of energy which Zambia at the moment is desperately in need of. Coal has been totally neglected and abandoned for very unexplained reasons. It has even extended to the road which is supposed to transport this coal to the line of rail.

Mr Speaker, I would like to remind this august House, that in 1966 and 1965, Ian Douglas Smith, late former Prime Minister of Southern Rhodesia caused an embargo onto Zambia. By that, otherwise, the Government in time quickly assembled and started working on Maamba Coal Mine which this Government has neglected and ignored. Because of that embargo, the coal mine at Maamba was opened because they did not have any alternative to supply of energy other than using the coal mined at Maamba. The coal suppliers from, by then, Southern Rhodesia were threatened with total disconnection - no supply at all. Why has this Government ignored the coal production?

I may move a little bit further, Mr Speaker, that the mine was even supposed to be privatised. To date, nobody knows what is happening. What has happened to Maamba Collieries is that their workers who were retrenched and retired, but nobody has come up with a clear policy as to where we are going.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: There is even a situation that Bencon who was …

Mr M. Mwale: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr M. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I find myself in a very difficult situation to raise a point of order on my big brother who I respect so much. Is the hon. Member in order to insinuate that this Government has been doing nothing about Maamba Collieries when the Minister of Mines and Mineral Development himself has even issued a ministerial statement in this House? I need your ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Member: Ministerial statement for what?

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister of Ministry of Mines and Mineral Development says it is not true that the Government has done nothing with regard to resuscitating Maamba Coal Mine. Now, that information could be useful to the hon. Member for Sinazongwe when he resumes his debate on this matter. However, I want to also guide the Executive that in case that ministerial statement was made long time ago, it cannot be useful when the ministry replies, if it so wishes to refresh the memory of the Members of Parliament here, as to what the actual position with regards to this mine is.

Hon. Member for Sinazongwe may continue, please.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your good guidance. I am compelled to remind this august House that the privatisation of Maamba Collieries was very badly handled to an extent that a company called Benicon came in and walked out with thousands of US Dollars. This company came in with nothing and was getting paid US$60,000 per month. Nobody has prosecuted Benicon and it has walked away with a crime at the expense of the people of Zambia.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: That is a very sad experience. Hon. Mpombo can bear with me because he was on this Floor just …

Mr Speaker: Order! What is the official title?

Mr Muyanda: The hon. Minister of Defence, by then he was the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development. He was on the Floor agreeing with me that the sale of Maamba Collieries and contracting of Benicon was not done in good faith.

Sir, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. As I am standing before you, Sinazongwe has been totally cut-off and there is no movement of traffic. Not even a small vehicle can reach Sinazongwe District because of the bad maintenance of the road that goes to Maamba Coal Mine. Why has the Government taken such a benign approach to a critical path of our industry? We will one day be given an answer and I hope it will be in 2008. I want to appeal to the Government to maintain the road. The Batoka-Maamba road is important to the economy and there is nothing political about it. I beg the Government to kindly take note of the Batoka-Maamba road and to reconstruct it this year and not to carry out piece-meal maintenance on it.

Mr Speaker, I now wish to move to the Constitutional Review Commission. Three weeks ago, I stood on the Floor of this august House and you guided me not use strong language. I stand here to submit my unreserved apology to the Catholic Church and its bishops …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: … for the strong language that I used and I hope they will accept my apology.

Hon. Opposition Members: Apology accepted!

Mr Kambwili: That is wisdom.

Mr Muyanda: To all those that this has caused injury, especially the bishops and the Catholic Church, I once again pray that they will forgive me. I also wish to tender my apology to my party President, Hakainde Hichilema, and the party for any injury that my strong language might have inflicted on them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Sir, in the spirit of mature leadership, I also tender my apology to you, your Clerks and other hon. Members of Parliament who heard me use strong language three weeks ago.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda left the microphone on.

The Minister for Western Province (Mr Mufalali): Switch-off the Microphone there, please.

Mr Speaker, I grateful for this opportunity to debate on the 2008 Budget presented to this House by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Peter Magande, on 25th January, 2008. I congratulate him and his team at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, let me also congratulate His Excellency Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for his honourary degree which he was awarded last year.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Sir, I also want to pay tribute to you and the Deputy Speaker, who is the Chairperson of the Committees of the whole House, for having spearheaded this Parliament to success last year. Lastly, I congratulate all hon. Members of Parliament for the job well done last year in ushering in the National Constitutional Conference, Act No. 19 of 2007.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: We have made history and we will go a long way in the history of this country.

Mr Speaker, the New Deal Government’s vision is to make Zambia a prosperous middle income country by 2030. Hence, we have this year’s theme which is, “Unlocking resources for economic empowerment and wealth creation”. Indeed, this years Budget should unlock the economic doors of Western Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: I want to stress that Western Province is unique because of its geographical position. The project implementation period is shorter than the flooding period. In some areas in Western Province, we work from June to October and from November to May we have floods everywhere. Therefore, I would unreservedly support changes that will be made to our Budget being approved before it annual implementation period.

Mr Speaker, I grateful to the New Deal Government because of its policies towards the distribution of wealth throughout this country. Yesterday, we were talking about Katima Mulilo Bridge but today are talking about Chembe Bridge and Chipata-Muchinji Railway Line.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Yesterday, we were talking about cattle restocking in Southern Province and maybe tomorrow, we will be talking about Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP) and anthrax eradication in Western Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the New Deal Government is on course with building or upgrading some airstrips at Nyangwe, Chitokoloki, Solwezi, Kasama and maybe tomorrow, it will consider upgrading the Mongu Airport as well as the Kalabo-Sesheke, Kaoma-Lukulu and Shang’ombo airstrips.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the New Deal Government’s policy on agriculture means well. For the first time in the history of this country, my constituency, Sesheke Central, last year exported maize to our neighbouring countries.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: I am also grateful to the New Deal Government for having concluded agreements with the Danish Government to sink boreholes in Western Province, and in my constituency in particular. I am also grateful for the construction of the Sesheke-Senanga road. Once this road is completed, the whole of the Zambezi west bank will be opened to the whole country.

Mr Mufalali: I thank the New Deal Government for giving the province K130 million, nine canoes covering a total of 123 kilometres. This has to drain 800 hectors flood plain for agricultural purposes. Also the activities opened canoes for navigation.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to thank the Government for its urgent measures to reduce the outbreak of disease occurrences in the province. This reminds me of the cordon line, Anthrax and fish diseases.

Mr Speaker, people of Western Province, Sesheke Central in particular will never stop cherishing this Government because of its continued care for its people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Today there is Oil and gas deposits in Western Province. If more exploration can be done, then Western Province is not one of the poorest in the country. There is also some possibility of discovering other precious stones in Western Province.

Mr Speaker, our Government means well in the provision of the Youth Development Fund so as to equip our youths with wealth in order for them to be responsible citizens.

Mr Speaker, now that we have the Ministry of Gender and Women in Development, through, and it, women are empowered to develop their own chores. Citizens Empowerment Fund is also another way of empowering citizens to wealth creation. Therefore, this Government should be commended for empowering women.

Mr Speaker, this Government is on course to support our women in Zambia. It can be seen on the streets or in this House. Our women are shinning.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: We have beautiful women in this House and there are no ugly women in Zambia.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Today, they all look the same. We will continue beautifying them by empowering them.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, we are thankful to this Government and we have seen for ourselves the development taking place here and there.

Interruptions

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, the Office of the Auditor-General (Western Province) has been completed, Zambia National Commercial Bank has been opened in Senanga, Barclays Bank has also opened a branch in Mongu, and possibly, Finance Bank and Zambia National Building Society will be opened in Mongu.

Mr Speaker, there are things that people want and the New Deal Government is ready to deliver.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Speaker, I disagree with my young brother, Hon. Ntundu when he suggested in this House that the Zambezi Plateau be renamed Tonga Plateau. It is unacceptable because if we do so, then the people of Western Province will also reclaim the Barotse Province and else where. We should not allow tribalism in our midst.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama (Mfuwe): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Madam Deputy Speaker: When business was suspended, the hon. Member for Mfuwe was just about to start speaking, may he continue.

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for, again, giving me this chance to add my word on many words that have been spoken out by the hon. Members.

Madam Speaker, last year when I stood to debate on the same motion, I did say that each time I want to have food I lose appetite because I always remember how people suffer in my constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: However, this time, I want to state that I am sliming not because I want to slim, but because I have started fasting so that the heavenly powers can hover on the Government of the day to see how really people in rural areas are suffering. I am happy that Madam Speaker, you are also coming from …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Leave the Chair!

Laughter

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, I am happy that you are also from the rural constituency and you really see how people in your constituency are suffering, except that you are not given this opportunity …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You may not draw the Chair into your debate. Can you debate the issues and remove the Chair out of your debate.

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, let me run away from drawing the Chair into my debate.

Madam Speaker, I come from a rural constituency and I will not take long because many hon. Members who have debated in this House have touched some items which I wanted to, also bring before your hon. Chair. As a result of that, I will not start by congratulating the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for bringing theories into this House. I will congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in December, this year, after seeing the results of the Budge which we are discussing.

It will be very difficult for me to stand up and start praising the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to say this is a good Budget because it maybe a good Budget on paper.

We want a Budget that will address the needs of the people of Mfuwe Constituency. We want a Budget that will look at the suffering of people in Chief Nabwalya who walk about 80 km to find a clinic.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: If this Budget definitely is headed in that direction, you will see me dancing in this House.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Wrong place to dance.

Mr D. Mwila: Bwekeshapo!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, last year’s Budget did not address the suffering of the rural people and they are still suffering. I remember very well the last time when the roads in Mfuwe Constituency were graded. That time I was in grade 6. 

Laughter

Mr Malama: If my memory serves me right it was 1989 that we saw the Grader in Mfuwe Constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame! Shame!

Mr Malama: I remember very well because when the grader was grading we used to run after it.

Laughter

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, to date, this road that comes from Chief Mukungule via Katibunga Mission where the Government of the day has opened a high School to the Boma, has been abandoned.

Hon. Government Member: By who?

Hon. Opposition Member: By Hon. Simbao.

Mr Malama: This road has been abandoned and my people take a long route as if they are going to Chinsali District after 54km that is when they branch to go to Mfuwe Constituency. I do want to state in this House that if this Budget is going address these problems, then I will be the first one to congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance. I cannot see the reason why I should stand here and start praising Hon. Magande even when I have not seen the result of this Budget.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, this is what we need to look at. I again want to thank you for allowing me to add the voice of Mfuwe people and also to put on record all these debates.

Dr Katema: Ebaume aba!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, since 1964 …

Hon. Member: Ninshi taulafyalwa.

Laughter

Mr Malama: The Government of the day then was UNIP. Since 1964 – in fact my people in Chief Nabwalya went there before 1964.

Hon. Muntanga: You were not born.

Mr Malama: UNIP were voted out and there came a Movement for Multiparty Democracy. The people of Nabwalya are cut off completely every rain season. I do not know whether these Budgets since 1964 have been addressing the problems of these people in rural areas. Even up to date there is no bridge at Mutinondo River …

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame!

Mr Malama: … each time when it is raining, people completely stop going to Chief Nabwalya.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, when Hon. Cifire came to Mfuwe to officiate at the ceremony in Chief Nabwalya, I said my Minister has come in my constituency, since I am here let me go and greet my Minister who is my traditional cousin.

Hon. Member: Who is that one?

Mr Malama: Madam Cifire.

Hon. Opposition Member: Oh!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, before I even greeted her where she is seated the first question she asked me was “which other route can I use when going back to Lusaka?”

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: She was not comfortable with the route she used.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: She was not comfortable and I told her that the other route that she could use was heaven.

Mr D. Mwila: Bwekeshapo apopene.

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, it is only that she cannot stand where she is to agree with what I am saying. She did not even give the speech properly because she was occupied with the route to use when going back.

Laughter

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, I said during the ceremony that why should it be for me to develop my constituency I must be a Minister of Finance? Why should the people in the Northern Province complain to say the Government has been neglecting us.

We are missing a point here. Like they say in Bemba that “Umwana ashenda atasha nyina ukunaya”

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: The people of the Southern Province are complaining to say that this Government has neglected us because they have not moved from the Southern Province to go and see how the people in the Northern Province are suffering.

Madam Speaker, if we cannot address these problems, this is why you see tribal conflicts. Where people think that if the Government of the day is from Chibombo, the Northerners and the Easterner are thinking that the Chibombo people are enjoying and yet they are not enjoying.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwila: Bwekeshapo apopene.

Mr Malama: This is why you have seen that now each province wants it own person to rule this country.

Mr Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: If we cannot see this, then we are in danger.

Mr Mwila: Hear! Naifwe tulefwaya uwesu.

Mr Malama: The best we can do is to stop pretending. When I point a finger at that Government seated there to say this is a problem, they should accept. My late father told me…

Hon. Members: Eeh!

Mr Malama: … that if there is a mistake you can make when you are still living is to disagree with the mistakes that you are making. Unless you accept that I have a problem, then you will be able to address that problem.

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, I said I would be very brief because those preachers who are brief are usually invited again. I do not even want to look at education, health or these other Government departments. I want to clearly rush into the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). If it was permitted, Hon. Muntanga, I would have loved to cry. Unfortunately, this House does not allow hon. Members to cry …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: … but people can be seen in the way they debate that this person is crying.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, if we talk of K1 billion increment of CDF, we are wasting our time. We should instead increase to K2 billion for rural constituencies and K3 billion for urban areas.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Bwekeshapo.

Mr Malama: I will tell you why.

Mr D. Mwila: Hon. Kazonga, muleumfwa bamudala?

Mr Malama: When you look at the population in town, you will agree with me that they deserve more money. However, when you look at the population in the rural areas, you will find that very little money can change the lives of rural people. I will give you an example. The CDF that we are demanding is not for it to be dancing in our pockets as hon. Members. No! We have seen the problems that the rural people are facing ...

Hon. Opposition Member: Correct.

Mr Malama: …and because of this, this is why we are saying the CDF must be increased. For the sake of records, I want to tell you that even those hon. Members who are seated there (right), we do meet and they say please you go and harmer on this one.

Laughter

Mr Malama: This is why I am saying unless we stop pretending then we will see development in this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Malama: What is an issue in my constituency is also an issue in Professor Lungwangwa’s Constituency.

Madam Speaker, why is it important to open up rural areas? It is important to open up rural areas because some of these people who are stranded in towns will easily move to rural areas and settle there. They will start farming and when they farm, they should find a way to the market to sell their produce. This time, no one would be attracted to go and settle in rural areas and I will tell you, why?

For instance, in my case, I am used to wearing suits, making contacts on the cell phone and catching a bus for a short distance to go wherever I want to. However, here you are telling me to go and settle in a rural area where there are no roads; where there is no everything. Which person do you think will go and start facing that kind of hell even before Christ comes to judge everybody.

Interruptions

Mr Malama: It is very simple, but if only we can increase the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). In fact, this CDF like I stated earlier, we do not put that money into our pockets.

Interruptions

Mr Malama: This CDF goes to the same ministries. When I am given the CDF and a certain secondary school is dilapidated in my constituency, I will use part of that CDF to rehabilitate the school. Who will be glorified? Definitely, it is Hon. Lungwangwa.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: It is because I have worked on his ministry’s infrastructure. Therefore, what we are saying here is just a shortcut of developing rural areas.

The other point is that, we have had the problem of people from Southern and Eastern provinces thinking that development is only being done in Central Province because that is where the President comes from. No! What is wrong here is the system. If we can address these problems through maybe decentralisation or giving enough CDF to constituencies, you will agree with me that development will be seen at the same level in Eastern, Southern and Northern provinces. The problem of tribalism will come to an end.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: This issue of tribalism is, actually, fake. It is not even there. It is because people from Northern Province think that they have been neglected and that is why they want their own president to rule this country. This all because wealth is not equaly distributed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Malama: Until we address this problem, then we are going to see change. As we long as we continue failing to distribute wealth equally, we will be fuelling tribalism and asking a tribalist to stop tribalism will be a waste of time because he is feeling the weight.

Hon. Member: You are married to a Tonga

Mr Malama: Somebody wants me to say that my wife comes from Southern Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: That is not very important because I believe it is One Zambia One Nation.

Laughter

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, as long as we continue pretending, we will not achieve anything. Let us look at some of these problems closely then we will find a solution.

Finally, Madam Speaker, …

Hon. Member: NCC!

Mr Malama: I am not going to look at the NCC as somebody wants to remind me because many hon. Members have talked about the NCC.

I wish this House could continue debating developmental issues and not politicising issues. This is why we cannot move. We will only move when we repent from the sin which we are covering up. By this, I mean that there are some problems that we are seeing but cannot look at them closely and handle them properly. By ignoring that there is a problem, we think we are doing fine. We are not doing fine. The solution here is to increase CDF as we wait for decentralisation.

Madam Speaker, before I wind up my debate, I would like to ask why since 1964, the people of Nabwalya and Mukungule have continued suffering despite having a lot of animals in their areas. Why should the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources continue amassing wealth from these game parks when the people of Mfuwe Constituency, particularly those in Chief Nabwalya, are still walking 80 kilometres to find a clinic? How can you tell those people to stop poaching when they cannot see the benefit from those animals?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: I want to believe that those people will only take care of those animals if only they can see the importance of preserving wild animals. As for now, why has the Government failed to construct a bridge at Mutinondo where they collect a lot of money?

Madam Speaker, even when the Republican President went to Mfuwe for a holiday – for your own information, most of the people think that Mfuwe is in Eastern Province. It is not in Eastern Province. Mfuwe is in Northern Province and the boundary is Luangwa where my Republican President went to have a holiday. For the first time, he was staying at Mushroom Lodge. The newly constructed lodge and when it came to viewing, he used to cross Luangwa into my constituency to view the animals that we have.

Madam Speaker, why should the people of Mfuwe continue suffering even when they have game parks? This is not fair. It is not true that the only people who have money are found in Lusaka. Even people in rural areas can have money.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: This is why the money being raised in these constituencies should be used there first before it is diverted to other needs.

Madma Speaker, I would like to end by saying that I am very young disappointed Member of Parliament.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute on this Motion. First of all, I must announce to the House that I am a daughter of a miner and I was brought up in a mining township. Therefore, I am able to compare the mines then and the mines now.

Madam Speaker, first of all, I would like to urge my hon. Colleagues on your Right that when they are negotiating with the would-be investors, they should not negotiate using their hearts. They should be very systematic. They should think very critically before allowing these people to come. They are not doing us a favour. They are coming here to make money. Therefore, I would like to comment on the mineral loyalties and the Corporate Tax. These pronouncements will mean nothing if they are not translated into deeds. It is common for this country to make so many pronouncements; very beautiful speeches, but at the end of the day, we do not translate them into deeds.

I am sure I remember vividly when the mines were there a long time ago. Sadly, I have observed that we are normally moving from good things to bad things. I do not know whether we are experimenting or not. The mines used to build hospitals; they built schools; they built clinics; they looked after their surroundings very well which meant that the local Government had fewer places to look at. However, now, we just allow them to come here because it is free for all while everything must be damped on the Government. I do not think that is the right way of doing things. We must re-look at this because, at the end of the day, when they have made their profits and they have gone, we are not going to gain anything.

I would want to talk about workers in the mines. The Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism toured part of the mines and found out that people do not get the respect that they deserve. Most of the times, they complain. Please, let us be a listening Government so that we listen to the people and address the issues that they are complaining about.

Madam, I remember when I was young, the miners complained because the nurses who were coming out of the midwifery were very young. They complained that they needed elderly people to attend to them. The Government then listened and gave them traditional birth attendants. Now, even if we complain, our complaints fall on deaf ears.

Interruptions

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, I want to come to the issue of equity. We have completely misinterpreted this word. I will begin with the Ministry of Education. When we talk of equity it means that if we are giving K20 million, we must give the same amount across the board. I am sure that is not the meaning of equity. I am not a hon. Member of Parliament in the Northern Province but I come from there. In Bemba we say, “Shilunga fye shilabwela.” It means that, “even if I am here today, at the end of the day, I am going back where I came from.”

Madam Speaker, Northern Province is a very large province which has a lot of people. Therefore, we need more schools. When we look at the distances, it means we need more roads. The Minister of Works and Supply comes from Northern Province and it is a pity that by the end of all he has done, he will go back to his province which has bad roads. It is unfortunate that he will ask himself what he had been doing in Government and did not do anything for his place.

Interruptions

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, we always say, “I wish I did.” You do not have to wish but do it. The roads and the distances are longer and we need more money for them. If you look at the number of schools that are in the Northern Province compared to other provinces which are even smaller, you will find that there are more schools in that province. Look at the infrastructure that is there. There is nothing to write home about. I admire these people here (opposition). They speak in unison. This one stands and talks about Bottom Road, the other one talks about Siavonga Road and the others talk about Top Road.

Laughter

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, I think it is high time also we spoke with one voice so that we can have development in our areas.

Madam, when we talk of development, normally we want to follow what the consultants tell us. It is good to have consultants but I think it is high time we used our own consultants because they will understand us better. They will know our customs and traditions and also go where we go. When we use these foreign consultants, they go where the roads go especially where the tar mark ends. They will end there and speak to somebody who can speak English. They will talk to somebody who is energetic and walking along the road. They will not go and speak to somebody who is sick at home or a child that is malnourished. Therefore, let us use our people because it is our agenda and it must be the agenda for Zambians.

Madam Speaker, I think we have done well in the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. I salute the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing for saying that they are thinking of bringing the Local Government Commission. Why do I say so? The people in the Council, the Chief Officers, sometimes fail to tick because Councilors sometimes intimidate them. They do not know what to do. There are times when they stop thinking because if they do not do this, tomorrow they will be fired. Therefore, we need an independent body so that Chief Officers can work well. I know we can talk and rebuke them but at the same time, they must have the freedom to speak.

Madam, when it comes to the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to give us this money. If I had my CDF in time, I do not think I would have had the floods that are in Matero today. It is very difficult for a hon. Member of Parliament to plan when the funds are not there. I had a vision and saw what would come but the money could not be available. Please, release the funds quickly so that we can be able to do whatever we can with this little money.

Madam Speaker, lastly, I want to talk about health. If you go to rural areas, you can really cry and lament because of the sufferings that people are going through. The children die in homes because of long distances and due to lack of ambulances to transport them to the nearest clinics. I cannot see any hon. Minister of Health in this House but I hope the neighbours will go and pass on the message to him. He needs to do better. We cannot afford not to attend to our people when they are sick. When you are sick, it is not easy that you can cover 20 km to find the next health centre. I hope the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will look into this issue and give us more money and not what is showing now.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Chilembo): Madam Speaker, I want to say something regarding the motion on the Floor. What I am going to say is inspired by what has been said in this House. I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Mfuwe for touching on the same subject. What I have seen with surprise and sadness is that the foundation of our nation is being or about to be threatened by the debate by the people in this House which is based on provincialism.

Madam, I must emphasise that Zambia is an indivisible. It is a country which operates under the motor of, “One Zambia One Nation.” 

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Therefore, as MMD Government, when we are planning development, it is not based on provinces. We plan development and our Budget as one Zambia. Therefore, if one part of the country has resources, we shall as a country develop that particular place. When the funds are released, we put them in the common place so that they can be shared equitably.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, it is not according to provinces. Therefore, if electricity is generated from Southern Province, it does not mean that we should start taking all the money to Southern Province. If the mines are in North-Western Province, it does not mean that the money will only be in North-Western Province. It is for the benefit of the country as a whole. I can confirm that this is Government policy.

However, we do appreciate the argument by Hon. Mbewe, Member of Parliament for Chadiza, who noted that probably only one area was benefiting. I must say that if there were a lot boreholes sunk in Southern Province, it is because there was a need for them. You do not say that because we have sunk 1000 boreholes in Southern Province then we must sink some in Northern Province where there has been normal rainfall. You cannot do that.

Hon. Government Member: No.

Mr Chilembo: It is a need which the Government looks at.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: That explains why Southern Province appears to have received a fairer share of boreholes compared to other places.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: That is how the Government operates.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Chilembo: However, for my friends who do not appreciate, they should wait until they come into Government, if at all they will and maybe they will appreciate the points which we are making.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, I recall that in the last session, when the supplementary budget came to this House for debate, some hon. Members thought we were here to fight. They started opposing that supplementary budget. It took Hon. Matongo to stand up and say in his opening statement, “let me give leadership”. He looked around and stated that the budget was for all of us and it would develop our areas, even for our colleagues in the opposition camps. There was calm in the House and reasonableness prevailed.

Madam Speaker, this time around, he stood up and made a similar statement. He, again, said I want to give leadership, and there was calm and reasonableness. Those who have ears heard and indeed reasonableness prevailed. That is what we expect. All of us are here for the development of this country and not to pull each other down. We are not here for that. Therefore, I would like to appeal to our hon. Members, some of whom are very senior, to emulate that approach, which Hon. Matongo has exhibited …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: …when we are dealing with national issues.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: This is because when you just start debating for that corner where you are coming from, you maybe sending a wrong message to an innocent bystander or listener in the street somewhere. You should know that you are a leader and you are there for all Zambians.

Madam Speaker, the problem today is that …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of Order, Madam.

The Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, I rise on a point of order. Is the hon. Deputy Minister in order to continuously praise Hon. Matongo and want to recruit him as a member of MMD?

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: In this quest of looking for a president, is the hon. Member in order to continuously refer to Hon. Matongo without admitting that leadership is here …

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: and he wants to take this man to MMD. Is he in order?

The Deputy Speaker: The concern of the hon. Member for Kalomo is that the hon. Deputy Minister has continuously praised the hon. Member for Pemba and his concern is that the hon. Deputy Minister may have an agenda of recruiting the hon. Member for Pemba as a member and leader of my right side, the MMD.

The guidance of the Chair on this very serious matter is that hon. Members of this House are all distinguished leaders, and therefore, the hon. Member debating is in order to acknowledge that even hon. Member for Pemba is a leader.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: You may continue.

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, thank you for the protection.

Madam, the problem today is poverty. This is why we need visionary leaders in this country. This problem of poverty arose even in the time of Jesus Christ, and talking about the poor, he said to the end of the world the poor shall be.

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, I would like to tackle the issue of leadership. When you are a leader like Hon. Sakwiba Sikota …

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: …who made an interesting speech by dramatising the poverty of one child coming from a rich family and one coming from a poor family. This is the nature of the world. Cal Marks talked about society being in classes …

Hon. Opposition member: Pick someone from that side.

Mr Chilembo: …and Hon. Lungwangwa was right ….

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: …when he expounded that the world is dichotomous by nature. This means that we have these divisions, and you, as a leader are supposed to come up with answers. That is why the MMD Government was voted into power because it has the best agenda in addressing the issues of poverty.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Therefore, when you aspire for leadership, this is a question which you will be confronted with. This is why today we are dealing with the question of the Budget to see how these resources can be shared so that they become unlocked and benefit our people.

Mr Speaker, I am delighted to note that the Budget has met the provisions of promoting tourism in the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources. In this year’s Budget, the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) has been allocated K21.5 billion for recapitalisation so that it can help to improve the operations. As you may know, this creates employment and earns us foreign exchange. Therefore, I believe that through this provision and allocation, which I believe hon. Members will support, ZAWA will operate more efficiently.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: For the hon. Member for Mfuwe who said that his people were not seeing the benefits, I urge him to do more research because we have in place Community Resource Boards (CRB), where the community receives some money.

If at all he is claiming that there has been no money, let him come up with evidence because as a ministry, we vigilantly made sure that communities benefit from these activities. I would be very surprised if that benefit has not trickled down to that particular area. I challenge the hon. Member of Parliament to follow up this matter with our ministry because it is there to empower all citizens regardless of their political affiliation as long as they are Zambians. We will ensure that our people benefit from these programmes.

Madam Speaker, the Forestry Department in our ministry has various programmes through which members of the community benefit. I urge Members of Parliament to interact with our ministry to find out how the communities can benefit.

The various projects which the ministry has are as follows:

1. Integrated Land Use Assessment Project;
2. Forestry Resource Boundary Project;
3. Provincial Forestry Action Programme; and
4. National Forestry Programme Facility.

Under these programmes we work with the communities. Communities are also taught skills in bee-keeping. These are areas where we want hon. Members of Parliament to interact with our ministry so that our people can be empowered by participating in these projects.

Mr Kambwili: Finally! Inshita ya kwana!

Mr Chilembo: My speech will not be complete without touching on critical issue of today and that is the issue of climate change.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, the issue of climate change has become a major concern globally and Zambia is no exception. To this effect, the ministry has increased its efforts in reforestation. Forestation and conservation programmes are there to mitigate climate change. I, therefore, urge Members of Parliament to encourage their people in their various constituencies to participate actively in tree planting.

I will pose a question. How many of us as Members of Parliament have planted a tree this year with all this rain around?

Hon. Member: El Niño!

Mr Chilembo: If we have not, please let us consider our positions and try to plant trees in our constituencies as this will mitigate the effects of climate change.

Mr Kambwili: Finally!

Mr Chilembo: We will, therefore appreciate when we come to considering individual items that this House supports our proposed allocation of K4.6 billion towards tree planting which exercise will in the long run also benefit our people who will be participating in the tree plant programme.

Madam Speaker, I wish to thank my fellow Members of Parliament for listening attentively …

Laughter

Mr Chilembo: … and believing as I do, that Zambia is indeed one nation.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Speaker, thank you for affording me this opportunity to debate on this motion.

Madam Speaker, already there has been some wonderful and inspiring speeches on this Floor. Among them, the Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development was indeed inspiring in his presentation. Also, the hon. Member for Moomba (Mr Mooya), in his analysis, where some of us saw pictures on the cover of the speech, but he was able to go into details and talk about that which was hidden. He was talking about the hidden damage on the roads. These two debaters clearly show the analytical skills of engineers because both of them are engineers. I think we are blessed that we do have engineers in this country. That is why may be in 2011 we must look to an engineer to rule this country.

Laughter

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, my two colleagues here, hon. Members of Parliament for Dundumwenzi (Mr Sing’ombe) and Malole (Mr Munaile) already have inspired this House with the way that they have debated.

Hon. Member: Tell them!

Mr Milupi: I shall not go into what they have said, but shall move the debate to a national level …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: … because that is what is required of me. I shall, therefore, look at the budget.

Madam Speaker, the President’s speech to this House and also the budget speech, had a lot of encouraging words.
Mr Magande: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: I agree with the President, his job is to set the direction, and therefore, his speech was full of very encouraging words.

In terms of the budget debate, there are a number of words in that budget debate that gives one a lot of hope.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: However, Madam Speaker, when you look at the substance, then that hope is lost.

The theme for the budget speech is “Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation.” Let me say that in anything that is done, there has got to be an ultimate target. Therefore, we are thankful that everything that is in this budget should make us look towards this budget and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in paragraph 4 of his speech says that we need to be a prosperous middle income country by 2030. In his exact words in paragraph 4 he says:

“Our cherished and chosen vision is to be prosperous middle income country by 2030.”

So, in debating this, all the time we must be focussed on that cherished end.

In terms of macroeconomic targets that were set for 2008, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) growth is set for 7 per cent, inflation 7 per cent and domestic borrowing at 1.2 per cent of GDP and the Gross International Reserves at 3.6 per months cover. These may sound as if they are wonderful targets when you look at them in isolation but to know whether they make sense or not, you have to look at what Government set themselves for 2006/2007. 
Madam Speaker, in last year’s budget you will find that the GDP growth target was at 7 per cent. Now, did we achieve that? The answer is no. We did not achieve it. We achieved 6.2 per cent. The inflation which we had set at 5 per cent, did we achieve it?

Hon. Members: No!

Mr Milupi: No, we did not achieve it. Instead we got 8.9 per cent almost 9 per cent. On domestic borrowing we did achieve the 1.2 per cent of GDP and that was on account of our inability to execute the projects.

Madam Speaker, if you look at the targets we have set in the 2008 budget and compare to what we are getting in Africa, the world and in the sub-region, in fact the growth that we have set for ourselves, is just about the growth that was achieved in the sub-region in 2007. Therefore, if you are looking for accelerated development, or if you are looking to become a middle income country, it must be a requisite requirement that you achieve a much higher growth than those people whom you are in the same bracket with in order to move forward.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: The premise I am making, Madam Speaker, is that the target of 7 per cent whilst we are looking to achieving a middle income country by the year 2030, then 7 per cent is not sufficient.

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, let me now look at other issues and I have to be fast if I have to cover most of the areas.

The Bank of Zambia has reduced the statutory reserve ratio from 14 to 8 per cent and in line with that, the inflation has stabilised at single digit figure. However, the interest rates continue to be very high and are therefore constraining the ability of ordinary business people to borrow money to invest so that this economy can grow and everybody can participate.

What does the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning say? He says in his speech that:

“However, commercial banks interest rates remain relatively high contrary to Government expectation. Lack of positive cooperation seems to indicate the failure of liberalisation in market forces.”

Now, this is a very telling statement, is a very telling admission. In 1991 with the advent of MMD, I think the cornerstone of the economic policy was to liberalise. Therefore, when the hon. Minister now says that, this seems to indicate the failure of liberalisation in market forces, especially in view of these very high interest rates. Our question as Members of Parliament is what is he going to do about it. It is no longer sufficient to bemoan it, but we want to see action. Interest rates must come down to make the course of borrowing in this country affordable.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, let me look at agriculture. The agriculture sector grew by 2.8 per cent, which was less than the 3 per cent by which the sector grew last year. In my view and in a view of many people, if we are to have accelerated development in this country, the agriculture sector should underpin our developmental efforts. By that, I mean whatever growth figures that we put in, if that growth is to be underpinned by agriculture, it means agriculture must grow by a much higher figure than the average.

Mr Munaile: Uuh!

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, where you are putting in a figure of 7 per cent and agriculture can only grow by 2.8 per cent. It clearly indicates that you have problems, and yet, agriculture is an area where the vast majority of our people can participate by wealth creating wealth for themselves by the way of creating employment for themselves.

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, agriculture is neglected. It is also an area where the vast majority of our people who reside in the rural areas can also uplift themselves, and yet, what we see.

We are talking about the theme for this budget that it is unlocking the doors and the resources for economic growth. Let me say that in terms of themes, they are many other themes that could have been used to describe this budget. For example, to those who have shall more be given …

Laughter

Mr Milupi: … and to those that have nothing, even the little that they have shall be taken away.

Hon. Opposition Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: And this is what this budget has done. How else can you explain a situation where rural dwellers can be made to surrender money K500,000 so that they can get fertiliser to plant.

Mr Munaile: Uuh!

Mr Milupi: And this is February, the fertiliser has not been given to them. They are now even having problems getting their money back.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Milupi: How else can you describe that situation? Madam Speaker, I say this to be helpful to those on your right, that we need a marshal plan to get agriculture going and when we do that, we shall then have the accelerated development that we are all looking for.

Particularly, neglected, Madam Speaker, are the small-scale and peasant farmers. In fact, if you look at this sector or sub-sector of the agricultural sector, if we were to analyse the small-scale and peasant farmers, you will find that the retardation over the years for this sector is a lot worse than what is shown by these figures.

Hon. Opposition Member: That is why we are going to win.

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think that in terms of agriculture, even the policy that underpins the support of Government the Fertiliser Support Programme is too little, it is ineffective and shows a lot of inequality in the way that it is given.

Madam Speaker, first of all, over the years, from 2006 to 2007 and indeed, this year, the Fertiliser Support Programme has shown a downward trend.

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, I think agriculture needs, especially in rural areas, a lot more focus support and I will suggest that our people in rural areas have lost their production capacity. Number one, in terms of equipment, they have lost that capacity. This Government will do well to take this production capacity back to the rural areas, by a way of providing farming equipment and extending the services those which are provided by extension officers. Therefore, if we do this on a ward by ward basis, by putting a tractor in each and every ward in rural areas so that people can go and hire, we will tremendously improve the production capacity of this country.

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, I can see that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is not happy with what I am saying, but he was too busy extolling and praising the farmers on that side. Therefore, I assume they know what farming is all about. For example, in Western Province where we have lost a cattle population from 1.5 million to 500,000, with that, we have also lost the oxen, and therefore, we have lost the access to animal drag power and this must be recreated.

Madam Speaker, the theme of the Minister of Finance and National Planning is unlocking resources for economic empowerment and wealth creation. What and where are the locked up resources?

Let me describe this to show that these resources are actually in the rural areas. Let us talk about minerals, these are locked up resources and these are found in rural areas. If you want copper, nickel, gold, cobalt, emerald, diamonds, iron and manganese, all these things are in rural areas. If you look at oil and gas …

Mr Muntanga: Manganese.

Mr Milupi: Yes, manganese, I am an engineer, I am a miner. … all these are rural areas, in Kabompo, Zambezi, Chavuma, Lukulu, Kalabo and Chama. If you look at tourism, these parks, rivers, lakes, traditional ceremonies and so on are all in rural areas. In agriculture, it is in rural areas that we have land and facilities. Electricity and energy, it is in rural areas where you have hydro-electric schemes, but in order to unlock all these resources which I have described, you need to have access to go to these areas and unlock them.

Mr Munaile: Yes.

Mr Milupi: What we are asking for hon. Minister is that, we shall not develop this country, unless we have a marshal plan to open up the rural areas.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Whoever will lead this country on the basis of opening up these rural areas will succeed.

Madam Speaker, it should be easier to address that side of the House to focus on rural areas, for it is on the basis of the votes they got in rural areas that they are where they are. Therefore, it should not be a problem to get them to agree to focus on rural areas.

Madam Speaker, let me talk a little bit about the mining sector. We all applauded the President, when he talked about the new tax regime for the mines. When I was proposing the vote of thanks for the speech of His Excellency to this House, I did say we were happy, but we would look for these figures in the budget, I said that on the Floor of this House.

I have looked in the Budget and in the Budget speech for the US$415 million that the President talked about but I have not seen it and I would like to know why.

Interruption

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, somebody from the Front Bench is saying that it is deliberate. The Constitution of this country mandates this House to approve all revenue generating measures and expenditure. Where expenditure is less than revenue, this House also mandated to approve supplementary funds. There is nowhere in the laws of this country where the Government is allowed to raise money quietly and put it aside.

Therefore, I have not been able to see the US$415 million in the Budget. In fact, even on the part that talks about mineral royalties, the hon. Minister was very categorical when he said that mineral royalty has gone up by 3 per cent. It is in his Budget speech. However, if you look at that part, he has put in K72 billion. A little bit of mathematics.

Madam Speaker, 500,000 tonnes of copper, and I know they have factored in 600,000 but I shall be kind and lower it to 500,000 tonnes, at the price of US$3.00 per ton and at the exchange rate of K4,000 per US$1, you will find that at 3 per cent mineral royalty, it will not give you K72 billion but K402 billion.

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Why are we making simple mistakes like these?

Mr Munaile: Quality!

Mr Milupi: Madam Speaker, let me look at energy. The greatest threat to our ability to achieve the aims of this Budget is the constraints that are being caused by the electrical energy sector. We are already in a crisis because the amount of power that we are able to generate as a country is far superseded by the demand. In fact, the demand right now is 1,600 mega watts and the country is only able to generate about 1,100 mega watts. Next month, when Lumwana Mine comes on stream, another 100 mega watts will be required. Two years from now Konkola Deep Mine will come on stream and another 150 mega watts will be required. Within two to three years, we shall have a demand of 1,900 mega watts while the generation will remain 1,600 mega watts and even that is only when all the machines are working.

Madam Speaker, as a very senior electrical engineer in this country, I say this to demonstrate that there is a crisis and there is no point for any of us burying our heads in the sand. It will constrain the development of this country and the ability to meet the targets that we have set for ourselves. We must look and tackle this as a crisis.

Madam Speaker, let me touch on the revenue base. I was very pleased that at least one hon. Minister was able to recognise his duties in superintending of the ministry in terms of revenue collection. That is the hon. Minister of Lands, who is not here. He was able to say that last year they superseded their target of K10 billion to K20 billion revenue collected. I wish all the hon. Ministers, in their responsibilities, would also enhance their non-tax collecting ministries so that we raise as much money as possible to support their expenditure.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Ms Cifire): Madam Speaker, I wish to pay tribute to all the hon. Members that have so far taken part in this important debate. I also wish to pay tribute to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for behaving like a ngoni warrior.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Madam Speaker, I am saying a ngoni warrior because he has decided to take the bull by the horns. Since he comes from an area where cattle is valued, I think that we understand each other very well because cattle represents wealth to us.

Madam Speaker, the coincidence does not end there. If we can recall, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning spent some time in Eastern Province. My cousin from Mfuwe says that Mfuwe is Northern Province but I am very sure that the part of Mfuwe that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning went to is in Eastern Province …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: … and as we have already said, the wise men are from the east.

Interruptions

Ms Cifire: … and the wisdom has come from the east when you consider that both him and the President spent time in the Eastern Province after which they both come up with the pronouncement of the windfall tax.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Madam Speaker, we have created hope in the youth of the country because for a long time we have talked about Zambia having a lot of resources. However, the question has been that what have we been able to do with the many natural resources that we have been singing about. For a long time, we have tended to be apologetic over the resources that are ours. The pronouncement of the windfall task- tax

Mr Munaile: Task is ok.

Ms Cifire: Nichimozimozi.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: The pronouncement of the windfall tax, this time around, translates into hope that the Zambian youths have been waiting for because they have been waiting to see what the Government is going to do. What we are now saying is that we are waiting to see the trickle down effect of the windfall tax which I am very optimistic the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is going to translate into action to be able to show that the Government is working so that we can have the children of Zambia today grow into responsible adults who are going to add value to the nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: Madam, we have an obligation to improve the lives of our people and this going to be done with the resources that are going to come from the windfall tax. As the Government, and as the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development, at the moment we have sixteen youth resource centres where are teaching our youths life saving skills. Our vision is to be able to have a youth resource centre in every one of our 72, or is it 73, districts.

This is possible with the fact that we are going to have this money made available because of the windfall tax.

Madam Speaker, I wish to echo my brother from Chadiza who talked about the situation in Chadiza and also to say that the youths of Luangeni Constituency are very open and has faith in the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning in that …

Dr Katema: Do they say so?

Ms Cifire: … firstly, they should be able to get on to the Great East Road and be able to reach Chipata with no difficulties. The hon. Minister of Works and Supply has indicated to us that it will be made available.

Madam Speaker, the youths of Luangeni are also looking forward …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Deputy Minister, your debate is within Government policy, not your constituency. You may continue.

Ms Cifire: I thank you Madam for your guidance.

Mr Muntanga: The youths in Kalomo.

Ms Cifire: Madam Speaker, the youths countrywide …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Cifire: … have faith in the Government being able to have referral clinics nearer to them. If we contribute to the development of this country positively, we are going to have very health youths.

Madam Speaker, I would also want to assure the hon. Members of Parliament who have had some concerns over the sports equipment in their areas that as a ministry, we are looking at the Sports Coordinators that are in all the provinces being able to deliver this time around because the resources will be made available. Our wish is to have these youths in sports activities, not only for them, but their health as well.

Madam Speaker, the youth centres that we have at the moment have indicated that we are in the right direction. In this regard, we need to have them upgraded and we should have them all over as a way of mitigating the youths programme and the problem that we may envisage if skills are not given to them at the right time.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Madam Speaker, I thank you for affording me this chance to debate on the Budget Speech presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Magande.

Madam Speaker, it is very important that as I debate, in my own understanding, I want to be quick to point out to strengths and weaknesses as I have discovered them in the Speech as well as in the Appropriation Book.

Madam Speaker, it is quite very clear as has been alluded to by many people on the Floor of this House that, even after 44 years of independence we are still seeing our people out there being virtually poverty stricken. If you go into the rural areas with a view to find out how they appreciate independence, you will find that there are very few people out there in Kaputa, Shang’ombo and even in the shanty compounds of Zambia who would say, ‘yes’ they value independence. The reason is that poverty is biting them harder and harder.

Madam Speaker, I quite appreciate as well that the theme of this year’s Budget is ‘Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation’. It is quite very good. Time and again, beginning from 1964, we have had themes, but in my understanding as a teacher, I always believe that a theme becomes meaningful if it enables a teacher in the classroom situation to realise the objectives. A theme by itself is nothing until it achieves the objective of a person coming up with the theme. Otherwise, it could be admitted that nothing has been done to, at least, give the people of Zambia what they desire.

Madam Speaker, all the economic reforms that took place between 15th April, 1968 and 1970 were aimed at getting the resources to benefit the Zambians, hence, the Government of the day came up with the programmes so that Zambians are able to appreciate what was given and endowed to them by God. I, therefore, want to say that it is important that when we give speeches, they must be seen to be giving direction on how we are going to arrive at what we want to do. There must be a process where certain categories of people have been identified to be beneficiaries of the Budget so that they help the Government realise the objective of developing the country in order to alleviate poverty. Speeches by themselves without meaningful interpretation into action shall always be given and we shall see Zambia not developing at all.

Therefore, what we expect this year is ways and means of trying to identify certain categories of people who we are going to economically empower so that they generate the wheels of industrialization so that at the end of the day, the people of Zambia, of course, not everybody is going to appreciate, but certain category of people are going to participate as workers and entrepreneurs with a view of steering this country to higher heights. Once we do that, then this Budget Speech and the Appropriation Book is going to be meaningful.

Madam Speaker, reliance on structural speeches in itself without alternative framework like I am talking about is a waste of time. We shall talk, appropriate and approve, later, we shall see this development taking place in our country.

Madam Speaker, economic prosperity in itself requires that the participants in the economy be it in private or public institutions appreciate the course of which they exist and it is only in a private partnership and liberalised economy like Zambia that we are going to achieve even what we are calling Zambia being a bigamy country by 2030.

Madam Speaker, on taxation, as a layman, in my understanding of taxation in Zambia is that it has perpetually hide people in formal employment for a long time. I was expecting this year that the tax band was going to be broadened and capture thousands of briefcase men who have invaded tax owing to the fact that the Zambia Revenue Authority has either deliberately not appreciated their existence or have dodged their need. If this was done, it would have given leave to people who have been adversely hit by perpetual taxes and even in the reduction of the rate to an acceptable standard as most Zambians proposed of 15 per cent. My desire is that it is not too late for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who is so focused and resolved to, at least, revisit this and broaden the tax band to realise more resources to fund our Budget and reduce on donor dependence.

Madam Speaker, in agriculture, for Luapula and Northern Provinces, when I critically analysed and went through vote by vote and activities, I ended up believing that a dark cloudy has been cast on Luapula and Northern Provinces.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Much of what was appropriated last year has been withdrawn. A regional example is the Luena Sugar Plantation. The Luena Sugar Plantation has been on the drawing board for many years.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: I recall, in 1967 the then Minister for Agriculture, probably, it was Elijah Mudenda. He visited Luapula with a view to inaugurate the industry. The data that was collected showing that the area is suitable by all costs to establish a very sustainable sugar estate scheme, probably, if not better than Nakambala Sugar Estates is lying at the ministry for unknown reasons. The governments have come and gone, Luena Sugar Estate has not been established. This year, the little that was appropriated last year, the K150 million appropriated for feasibility studies in water wells and the K90 million for data processing has been completely removed.

The question I always ask is, what happened to those people who stayed in office? Where was the K150 million and K90 million spent?

 I remember the other time, the former hon. Minister for Luapula Province, Hon. Sakeni, picked quarrels with some people. They argued over certain roles because people deliberately chose to divert money meant for the development of Luapula to other provinces they thought were more of priorities than Luapula. That is very unfair. I would rather appeal and plead with the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives to at least realise and think that much as we talk about Zambia attaining medium income country by 2015, it would not be attained only by giving Lusaka what they can get to develop. It would be done if the wealth of the country was equitably distributed. This is because the sugar that could be produced in Luena could supplement the Mazabuka Sugar and then Zambia would export more sugar and the money would be used by ourselves to develop Zambia everywhere else. The soils are good. I do not know the problem. I am pleading.

Madam Speaker, on agriculture again, in last year’s Budget, there was appropriated money for cattle re-stocking. There was appropriate money for fish re-stocking. (Chuckles) Some times I tend to wonder – is going to Parliament lying about you are going to do? I ask myself that question?

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Withdraw lying in Parliament.

Mr Chimbaka: Madam Speaker, with due respect, I withdraw. Telling the truth – the least thing I want to do is to lie to the people …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: (Chuckles) … is to mislead the people. Please I beg your pardon. You know it is a second language. The least thing I want to do is to mislead the people. Not to lie. (Laughs) Thank you very much because you see that erodes the integrity of an individual. You understand this as an educationist and the background am coming from that is of a noble profession coupled with my religious beliefs, I believe that telling the truth is the only thing that a person must do and I shall thrive on truth. I shall give credit where it is due.

Madam Speaker, Luapula Province has been given a lot of money by Hon. Magande through the programme called PLARD. I thank the hon. Minister because he revealed this to me last year and if he has been making a follow-up. PLAD means Plan for Luapula Agricultural and Rural Development.

However, what we are not pleased with as people of Luapula is the way this programme is being implemented. The whole amount of money that was appropriated last year went into workshop after workshop and Hon. Magande made a follow-up. However, these people even though advised by him, seem not to change at all. As I talk Madam Chair, neither the Provincial Permanent Secretary nor the PACO is being briefed of the development. Now I begin to wonder how they exist in a province where there is a PACO and a PS and yet fail to appreciate these offices. I think corporate governance needs to be done. Hon. Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives please make a follow- up.

If I had the power, I would have told that Irish woman there that move away. We do not want you. Go somewhere else and implement your programme. That is about agriculture, Madam Speaker.

Now there is also an issue – Head 13 and 08 on boreholes. Last year Luapula Province according to specialists is one of the Provinces that have bad water. I am happy the hon. Minister for Local Government and Housing appreciated that much of the water has iron in it and is not very good for human consumption but the water table in Luapula Province is such that although there are rivers and lakes, accessing safe water for drinking is a problem. What we were thinking would be done, according to the technocrats in the Ministry of Energy and Water Development is to find ways and means of giving the people of Luapula safe drinking water. This could be done only by provision of boreholes. Water on Lake Bangweulu, Lake Mweru and Luapula is not safe water. It is being abused. We would want more resources directed that way.

Madam Speaker, regarding health, I can say that yes, we appreciate what has been appropriated Head 44/13 but as you may be aware, I remember most times as you go to your constituency, you drive through Mansa. The Mansa General Hospital infrastructure hon. Minister has been incomplete from as far back as 1990. What KK left is what has been there.

Madam Speaker, worse still Mansa itself as a district has no district hospital. Milenge – Oh I wonder for Milenge – There is not even a rural area that can be identified as a rural area. Milenge district is totally unqualified to be addressed as a hospital. Not even a house for a District Commissioner, no road, no electricity, no road for even games. The council itself sits under a House squatting and yet that was promoted to district status in1997. It is very bad. People must be considerate.

I hope the Ministry of Health should consider expediting action on Samfya, but Mwense District has no rural health centre at all. Mansa itself is worse. Due to that, the General Hospital has a lot of pressure. On the Floor of this House I said we required doctors at Mansa General Hospital. Three have passed on and they have not been replaced. It is a sorry state of affairs.  Madam Speaker, because of lack of time, I want to rush.

Madam Speaker, I would like to comment on minerals. I am not a miner, but my father was. I would like to say that the reason the UNIP Government come up with Metal Marketing Corporation (MEMACO) was to enable the Government trace production from underground to the selling point. Therefore, whatever was sold out was captured and accounted for.

Now, there is a very good plan which is being introduced by elder brother (Hon. Magande), but I would like to ask him how we are going to trace the selling of copper. I thought that planning should have been employed whereby production on daily basis is accounted for so that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning are aware of the amount of cooper being mined and leaving our country.

Madam Speaker, I do know whether they are aware that manganese is being exported from Mansa. Look at Nickel. I do not know whether we are capturing these things. Therefore, I would like the hon. Minister to organise a group intellectuals who understands mining and selling of minerals, some of them should be those who worked for MEMACO, to trace all these up to the selling point, the London Metal Exchange, so that we can be able to realise these fuller loyalties and fuller tax that we require for our national development.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to say that if what is happening in Zambia continues, it will be a very sorry state of affairs. Many years ago or to be specific, one and half centuries ago, one of the great philosophers in the name of Karl Max said this:

“The capitalisation so evolving in the world would provide incapable ways and means of production as capitalist states. But the result of this would to provide least income to the least privileged and more income to the most privileged and the result of this will be uneven distribution of wealth.”

This is what I think is a case in Zambia today. The requirements of the people of Northern and Southern provinces are the same. What the people of Eastern Province require so do the people of Luapula Province. Equitable distribution of wealth will lead us to harmony co-existence. Uneven distribution of wealth, unqualified statistically and unqualified politically are the causes of differences we are hearing about from other countries. My belief and my plea is, always that, we must love one another as we love ourselves.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, in the first place, I would like to thank you for giving me a chance to add my voice to the debate on the Floor of this House in relation to the Budget Speech that was presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Mr Ng’andu ‘Mangande.’

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: Magande.

Madam Speaker, from the onset, I would like to say that I will stray a little bit and maybe cite a few issues which were raised in the President’s Speech. Friday, 11th and Friday, 25th January, 2008, are great days. This is because milestone pronouncements were made by the President and amplified by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning when he delivered his Budget Speech.

It is for this reason that I would like to join all those who have commended the President in their debate and also the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for the job well done. I would like to add that His Excellency the President’s Speech was far much reaching.

Madam Speaker, with the contents of the President’s Speech in mind, I would like to say that the doubting Thamases, of this country including those who are in this House, now see that Levy Mwanawasa’s Government and his Cabinet means well …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: … for the people of Zambia.

For this reason, may I, therefore, request all those who have debated in this House to join me so that we work hard and complement those organs or authorities who are going to implement these new pronouncements instead of disrupting everything.

Madam Speaker, I say so because if we meet and discuss with those who are going to implement these policies, we are going to make Zambians happy because the pronouncements made the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will be implemented for the good of our people.

May I briefly comment on the 2008 Budget. All well-meaning progressive hon. Members of Parliament will agree with me that it was uncalled-for for some dignified Members of this House to debate with the sole aim of watering down these far reaching pronouncements made by His Excellency and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. It was astonishing to hear a-well-placed member of a party referring to this budget as a ‘yellow brick.’

Madam Speaker, those people who appreciate this Budget know that the people who are saying that this Budget is a ‘yellow brick’ are not grateful and are incensitive to the nice things that this government is doing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, such people are very retrogressive and should not be allowed to continue debating. If they want to come back to power, let them find other means than discussing retrogressive issues.

What is a budget? The way I understand it is that, a budget is an instrument or a document that tries to reflect the past and the present and focus on the future within the economic status.

Madam Speaker, the reason behind is to distribute the scarce resources that we have. Therefore, as a Government or a as a people, we cannot …

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 until 1830 hours.

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, I thank you again for allowing me to continue with my debate. Before we went on break, I was saying that reflecting the past relating to the present with our minds in the future as we share the scarce resources are the cardinal components of a Budget. Usually, they say, you can only cut or tailor your suit to the length of a material you are having. This means that whatever we are seeing in this Budget is what is available for us in this country. Therefore, hon. Members debating should know that we cannot go beyond what we have. We you critisise, you should have in mind that what we are sharing is what you have as Zambians.

Madam Speaker, Budgeting is not child play. I was listening to some hon. Member in this House saying that may be we can only concentrate on roads. This means that budgeting is not very simple. For somebody to think like that, it means by the time you finish ten years, you will have only made roads. When will the hospitals and schools be made?

Madam, this means that budgeting is very important. Therefore, people who try to actually discredit this Budget should put this in mind. I was also attentively listening to hon. Members of this House who were trying to discredit economical indicators like inflation rates and so on. They were saying that the inflation rates mean nothing in the economy. Is it not amazing for individual hon. Members who are actually learned to willfully discuss such type of information? Is it really in good faith for an educated person to discuss scientific factors like indicators as being worthless and meaningless? Some hon. Members were saying that they want to see the food in the plates in the rural areas.

Interruptions

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, if we are not seeing these foods there, then we are simply trying to ignore factors as they exist.

Interruptions

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, economic indicators are like other indicators in our own systems, for example, temperature or BP in a human being. If your temperature is very high, then we will know you are sick. If your temperature is medium, then you are relatively well and if it is very low, Dr Chituwo will pronounce you dead.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, what I am trying to say is that indicators are signs which show that these things are working or not. Therefore, when you discredit these indicators saying they are worthless, then I do not understand you. The indicators in the economic world are just litmus of the situation that exist on the economy. So, for somebody to say that these are not important things it is really distorting factors.

Madam Speaker, for example, if you are saying that the reduced inflation rate to a single digit is not important, do you really understand what inflation is? Someone can say that if he or she has not been school.

Interruptions

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, those of you who were in this House some time back, when the inflation was very high, you can remember how it was difficult for us to balance our economy. It was difficult for us to balance even our homes. We could not buy anything because prices were changing everyday. Some people are debating that the stabilisation of kwacha is not important. Are you forgetting a few days ago when the kwacha was almost worthless? Now, it has stabilised and you are saying a stable kwacha does not indicate an economic growth. What type of economics is that? Is it just for the sake of trying to discredit what is good? I really do not relish that type of debate when we are debating important issues like this one.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, the GDP has value. The Gross International Reserves (GIR) means something.  If you do not have this, you cannot even import anything and you are saying this is not an indicator of a growing economy.

Madam Speaker, if your method is to discredit this Government on what it is doing for you to come here in 2011, you will wait for other many years from now.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Madam, we have seen a lot of things which are happening in this country. This Government has done a lot. If you want to interpret this in a physical form, you can see the stocked shops. You can go to the shops now and find everything you want.

Interruptions

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, what does this mean? Is this not a growth? If you go to the shops, you will find that prices are stabilising. What you got last year will still cost the same.

Interruptions

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, the food security is not as bad as it used to be some few years ago.

Mr Matongo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Matongo: Madam Speaker, I am concerned about the line of debate my own brother is taking on economic indicators. Does he realise that the economic indicators can mean growth when in fact, there is no development. Does he understand that economic difference? What we are talking about here…

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! You have addressed your point of order.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! There is only Chair to make a ruling. The concern of the hon. Member for Pemba on the debate of the hon. Member for Liuwa is that the hon. Member for Liuwa is talking of using economic indicators for only one aspect and that economic growth without actual development. The Chair would like to guide that the hon. Member for Liuwa has his own right to take one aspect or all the aspects. He is free to debate in his own understanding. He may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, I thank you very much for your ruling. Madam, I was about to indicate to my height mate …

Laughter

Mr Imasiku: …that development has really taken place.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The Chair would like to hear so can we, please, lower the voices.

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, there are a lot of issues which indicate growth and I was just about to release the categories to my cousin.

There is abundant transport system in this country. Now, people have got cars and buses. Is this not growth?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Is this not growth? Madam Speaker, the stability of prices is also growth.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Imasiku: There were those days you could go into a shop and not know what to buy. A person in Chavuma may not how much it costs because the prices were in real shambles. Madam, this is growth.

Madam Speaker, communication wise, if I am in Liuwa, I can phone. If I am in Shangombo, I can phone. Is this not growth?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: This is growth.

Madam Speaker, a lot of developments have taken place. We have seen new mines. Mines were closed, but now, we have got mines now. Further, education has grown and financial situations have improved. Are we not saying that this year the pension arrears will be cleared? Is this not development?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Is the money not going to go into our pockets and the pockets of our children? The people are going to be empowered.

Madam Speaker, infrastructure is also improving.

Mr Mulyata: Bwela Liuwa

Hon. Opposition Members: Where?

Mr Imasiku: Chirundu, if you do not know.

Interruptions

The Deputy Speaker: Order! Speak through the Chair; you will be tempted to start responding to all the hecklers. Speak through the Chair!

Mr Imasiku: Madam Speaker, the road to Chirundu and Chembe Bridge are being done. The Katima Mulilo Bridge has been done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: What else do you want to see as growth?

Madam Speaker, when you talk about growth, you must relate to the past. Have you forgotten the past? Have you forgotten where you were in the period of 1964 to 1991? Have you forgotten the dark days of 1991 to 2001? Those were the dark ages.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: Remind them.

Mr Imasiku: Have we forgotten that time?

Mr Mulyata: Kambwili, you were not born that time.

Laughter

Dr Machungwa: On a point of order, Madam.

The Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, I really do hate to interrupt my brother who is debating so well toady. However, is he really in order to not to tell us about the growth and development that has taken place in Liuwa, rather than just talking about Gross Development Programme without pointing to tangible growth in his constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear! 

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The concern of the hon. Member for Luapula is that the hon. Member for Liuwa is not talking about his Liuwa Constituency but talking about general development economic indicators. The guidance from this Chair is that the hon. Member for Liuwa has decided to take a national approach to the Budget …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: …and he is in order to debate in the manner that he wants. You may continue.

Mr Imasiku:  Madam Speaker, as usual, I want to thank you again for the protection.

Madam, I will debate on my constituency when we discuss specific ministries in the Budget.

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Laughter

Mr Imasiku:  Madam Speaker, people should not discard the past when they want to analyse the present economic status and neither can they plan without looking at the present.

Madam Speaker, why can we not remember where we came from? It is in those days which I was referring to, when the economy was on its knees. We actually want to thank those people who helped us to make sure that the old regime did not continue. Otherwise we were not going to be where we are now.

Madam, are you forgetting that the mines were closed?

Mr Munaile: Closed? Which mines?

Mr Imasiku: Yes. There were very few mines. I was in Kabwe when Kabwe Mine was closed, if you do not know.

Madam Speaker, are you forgetting the transport system being discarded? Companies like UBZ, Zambia Airways, etc were closed. Are you forgetting that? Now that we have these issues in place, you are saying that the economy is not growing.

I was there when processes like Mununshi Banana Scheme was almost razed. Madam, where is the Kawambwa Tea Estate, the Battery Scheme and the Kapiri Glass Factory? If we had not come back and bring the economy on its footing, we were going to be in problems. What I am saying is that when we criticise, we should look at where are coming from, where we are and where we are going.

Madam Speaker, even agriculture was on its knees. I do not think it existed that time because the policy was not there. Peasant farmers did not even know where to sell their produce.

Madam Speaker, the social sector was in disarray. This time, however, you are seeing all these organs. They are in place and yet, you are saying the economy is not growing. There was a time when the kwacha was almost useless. If you gave a child, he would even throw it away. This time, you can proudly move in this country with your kwacha and be honoured.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: Wherever Zambians go, they are looked upon as people from a country. There was a time you could even get scared to say I come from Zambia. The reverse of the situation is what we are seeing now. This means the economy is growing. Indicators indicate that the economy is growing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Imasiku: I am not happy to see people trying to distort facts for political reasons, maybe, because you want to win the Kanyama Parliamentary Seat or come to Government in 2011. Let us state issues the way they should be. This is a working Government and we mean well. Therefore, I am requesting you to impress upon this Budget and work with us to implement it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, I thank you for finally giving me the opportunity to add to this debate that is very interesting.

Madam Speaker, I would like to start by addressing myself to this Budget that we are talking about. Whenever I see a document of this nature, I realise that such a document is what is giving the direction of this nation for the following year. As one speaker said, it is a document that tells us where we are coming from, where we are and where we are going.

Madam Speaker, before I even go any further, when you look at this document and I would like to mention what the other hon. Members have mentioned, I try to look for a direction in this document and it is not there. Let us look at the theme ‘Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation’. I went back for the budget 5 years ago. I started in the year 2004, when the current Minister of Finance and National Planning took over the theme was ‘Austerity for Posterity’. Meaning that, the observance of fiscal prudence and postponement of needless present consumption in order to secure future sustained prosperity. In short, we call it delayed gratification. Now, the following year, the theme was ‘Steadfastness for Accelerated and Broad-Based Growth’. There is no connection, it gets worse. In 2006, it says ‘From Sacrifice to Equitable Wealth Creation’. The previous year we were talking about steadfastness, since when, did sacrifice come in? It gets worse. In 2007 it says, ‘From Stability to Improved Service Delivery’. Now, the previous year we were talking about sacrifice, but following year we talk about stability, there is no connection.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: What is the direction? In 2008, we are talking about unlocking resources, last year, we were talking about stability. What direction is this nation taking? You have heard, Madam Speaker, in debates, I have been previous to be in debates in other fora and we have been accused of the nation of being directionless. Some people even said that this nation is an automatic pilot, meaning that it is just drifting. When I just see these themes, before I even go there, there is no theme, there is no direction. For a document this important, we should have a theme and a direction of where this nation is going.

Now, Madam Speaker, when I went in detail, I said okey, since I do not see a direction, what should be the direction of the nation …

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: … because this gives us the direction where we are going as a nation.

Fortunately, our President gave us a document called the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP). I will quote from the speech of the President when he was launching the FNDP and I quote;

“having said all this, I would like to present to you two planning documents that define our destine as a nation. For the next 5 years the FNDP will be the only official document or developmental agenda upon which all our development efforts will be based. It is now my own and privilege to officially launch the Zambia vision 2030 and the FNDP plan 2006 to 2010. I thank you.”

This is what the President said when he was launching FNDP. What that means is that the President gave the FNDP, as the only document to guide this nation for the next 5 years, while we are going to the 2030 vision. What this means, is that as a nation we should be checking ourselves. Are we achieving our objectives? Are we achieving that vision that the President gave us?

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

Mr Simuusa: Now, looking at this budget, to me this format is wrong and I would like to submit that the budget format should be changed, for the last 5 years, 6 years and 7 years the budget format is the same. This should be changed if we are serious as a nation to see where we are coming from, where we are and where we are going.

I expect to see three columns here, Madam Speaker. One, 2006 when FNDP was raised, what were the objectives as said by the President? In 2006 column, what did we achieve? In 2006, what was the budget? In 2007, what does FNDP say, where are we suppose to be? This is because right now, we are just saying we are making progress, we are getting somewhere, based on what.

Mr Kambwili: Comparisons.

Mr Simuusa: There is no comparison and the comparison according to the President should be the FNDP. If I ask the Government compared to FNDP where are we? I do not think we will get an answer because there is no comparison and it is not even possible to take anyone to account or to take anyone to task that as a nation we are failing to meet our vision.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Madam Speaker, I would like to propose, this budget the format is wrong. Let us put our vision. Where are we going, where are we suppose to be, this is 2008. What should be saying is based on the FNDP where should we be. Then, we will be able to take anyone to task to explain why we are not where we should be, as per plan of our nation. What I am saying is that this budget should be giving us the direction and telling us where we should be as a nation, where we came from, what is our yardstick, to borrow another Member’s words, what are the milestones that we should be following so that we are able to judge whether we are making progress or not. Not what I would call a …

Mr D. Mwila: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised. Switch off the microphone.

Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, I stand on a very serious point of order. Is the Minister of Finance and National Planning and his Deputy, Hon. Shakafuswa, in order to leave this House when we are debating the budget because they are suppose to take notes of what is being discussed. Are they in order, Madam Speaker?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Speaker: Order! That concern by the hon. Member for Chipili that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and his Deputy Minister, are not in the House and the Chair can see that, but the Chair can also see the presence of the Acting Leader of Government Business. Therefore, representation of Government is present in the House.

May the hon. Member continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Thank you, Madam Speaker, what I am saying is that as a nation, let us get our direction right. Where are we going, where are we coming from, where should we be and let us take to task whether or whichever ministry is not reaching the desired numbers. So, let the budget format be changed.

Madam Speaker, I want to comment before I go into detail the danger of over praise. I am relatively new in the House and I have been very interested to observe how the debate has been going on and how issues are approached. I am a person who feels uncomfortable when there is over praise or praise for the sake of praising. We are in a very serious and I will call a sober time which requires sober reflection. I want to give an example, I know one of our colleagues on the right was very upset that there was no praise coming.

Madam Speaker, I would like to give an example from a mining point of view. There has been a lot of praise on the mining industry. I am a miner and I represent miners that, I mentioned even in my maiden speech. There has been this praise about the mining industries doing very well, but if I analyse that industry, the main reason why that industry is doing well, it is because of the good price. There is a metal boom in the whole world. If you look at the metal industry all over the world, there is a metal price boom and that is why it is doing very well. Therefore, for people to stand up and say no the mining industry is doing well because of this and that policy, Madam Speaker, is very questionable.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: I will give another example, we should be praising our goals that we were lack that time that the prices have improved. So, we should be careful where we place our praise. Another example …

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

The Deputy Speaker: Order! A point of order is raised.

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Mr Sichilima: Na Chimumbwa awamapo.

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. We have been listening attentively to the hon. Member on the Floor, but is he in order to start misleading this House and the nation that the only reason why the mines are ticking is because of the price …

Hon. Opposition Members: Yes!

Mr Sichilima: … if it was not for the good mining policies of this Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: … would anyone pick any mineral, call it copper and attract the prices that it is attracting. I need your serious ruling, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Speaker: Order! The Deputy hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development is concerned with what the hon. Member for Nchanga, who is debating, has stated that the mines doing well is not dependent on what is happening here but rather on the good prices on the international metal market and the hon. Deputy Minister asked for a very serious ruling. This Chair has guided that the hon. Members in this House debate in the way they feel and believe. It is only the Executive that is held accountable within their policy about the things they say.

However, if the hon. Member debating totally misleads the House by stating contrary to what is known as a fact that is undisputable, then the hon. Members of the Executive can immediately ask for correction of such a statement but when a hon. Member is debating an opinion, then the Executive should be able to stand and debate to put the record straight or correctly.

May the hon. Member debating continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Madam Speaker, I will come to Government’s good policies shortly but I wanted to balance issues because we should be balanced as a nation. We should put praise where it is due and also put criticism where it is due. Let me give another example. Not so long ago, there was that big truck, I am told that it is the biggest after a long time, that was transporting equipment for the construction of a smelter from Namibia to my constituency. There was funfair and ululating as that machine passed by and every shade of politician and cadre was singing praises to the Government. They were saying that it is because of the good policies of this Government that we had these machines rolling in.

Mr Sichilima: Yes!

Mr Simuusa: Madam Speaker, again this was misplaced praise. That was the industry responding to good prices and were investing in their operations.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Every time I saw that machine, I held my head in shame because this meant that we were saying that there are no engineers in Zambia who can assemble that thing here. So we transported it and caused damage to our road all the way to Chingola. Shame on us.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simmusa: After 40 years as a nation, we failed to assemble that thing that we dragged to Nchanga. Shame on us.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simmusa: Madam Speaker, I said that I am a mining engineer and I represent miners and as such I am very interested in any development to do with mining. I would like to comment on the announcement on the windfall tax and increased mineral royalties. However, I will not go into details because it has already been said that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has not included this in the Budget and I am asking why. It is not a secret that during my campaign in Nchanga, that was one of my main campaign points. This is where I now come to good Government policies. When there are good metal prices, what the Government does to tap into that good price is where good Government policy comes in. It is a known fact that this Government has not taken advantage of this metal boom that is happening world-wide.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simmusa: I even said in my maiden speech that this was one of my main campaign points that I had in Nchanga. Looking at the election results and landslide victory, the people agreed.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simmusa: At this moment, I would like to pause to thank His Excellency the President for congratulating me and the Patriotic Front for winning that election.

Hon PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simmusa: Madam Speaker, when the President announced the new tax regime, which I am not going to comment on because this is something that we have been asking for, I had a feeling that this announcement was made a bit prematurely. Let me explain why. What I expected the President to tell us was that the Government had engaged and negotiated with the mining companies and what was achieved was this and that. Instead, what we got was that we are going to a median of 31, the lowest, to 45 per cent.

Mr Kambwili: 47 per cent.

Mr Simmusa: 47 per cent. Now, this leaves me with questions. As much as I know that we are not benefiting from the good and favourable prices and environment in the industry, I get a bit uncomfortable because I ask myself how we arrived at this figure. Was it just a way of getting popularity from people? It is not a secret that the ruling party, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), has been instructed that at all costs, it should regain its popularity in the nation, especially on the Copperbelt. So I asked myself whether that announcement was made just for that purpose.

Madam Speaker, secondly, after that announcement, different mining firms said that they were not consulted. Some have said that because of this new tax regime, they will stifle investment. The President said that some mining houses, which he did not mention, refused these taxes and we have been cautioned everywhere. I got uneasy and said to myself that we should not be embarrassed as a nation. I want to ask the Government whether we have plan B, C or D to make sure that we still achieve our objective. By saying this I am imploring the Government that we should not be embarrassed as a nation because tomorrow we will come and eat our words. Is this why the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has not included that figure in the Budget? Is he not sure of what we are doing as a nation?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simmusa: Madam Speaker, I would also like to ask for transparency on what we will do with that money, if at all we collect it. The hon. Minister has already said that he is asking for transparency in the way that this money is spent. People have been asking about what happened to the money that came from the sale of the mines. Up to now, that question is still being asked.

Interruptions

Mr Simmusa: Yes, what happened to it? Therefore, even in this case, we need to be transparent and open so that people will not ask where the money from the new tax regime has gone. The question I would like to ask on the windfall tax, before I leave the topic, is that how did we come to 47 per cent? I would like to implore the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to show me the formula that was used to arrive at this figure. I would like to be able to explain to my electorate in Nchanga when they ask me how we got to 47 per cent. I am asking because even in the details of the Budget, there was the windfall tax of 25 per cent at the copper price of US$2.50 per pound but below US$ 3.00 per pound. Therefore, I asking how we arrived at these figures because what we have done, effectively, is to jump over three nations, in fact four. We have jumped over Australia, Indonesia, Tanzania and landed on Namibia. These are countries that have well developed economies with very strong mines. Therefore, I would like to know how we have jumped all these nations so that I know what formula or secret we are using and able to explain to my constituency that this is what we are doing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Madam Speaker, the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has already been talked about. I concur with the previous hon. Members who have debated before me that one of the uses of these windfall taxes is to reduce the Pay-As-You-Earn. I would submit that the reduction is not high enough.

The Constituency Development Fund (CDF) is another way of using the money that we get from the mines because it is the only fund that goes direct into the constituency.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: I would like to join calls by my fellow Members of Parliament that we should increase the Constituency Development Fund to a K’ billion.

Madam Speaker, only K60 billion has been allocated to the CDF …

Mr Kambwili: Bwekesha ko!

Mr Simuusa: ... that is the money allocated to the National Constitution Conference (NCC), K306 billion.

Madam Speaker, it is funny times because it is more than what has been allocated to the CDF for the whole nation. What this means is that even if you increase it to a billion, it will still be half of what has been allocated to the NCC.

Hon. Government Members: It is fine.

Mr Simuusa: What I am saying is that this Government has demonstrated that when it is willing and when it has a will, it will find the money.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: So, let it find money for CDF because it is very important.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Madam Speaker, I had so many things to talk about, but because I am running out of time, I will just leave some of the issues. We are just starting the debate.

Finally, I would like to comment on the 2030 Vision. The 2030 is a very good vision and I would like to comment on what His Excellency said again. He says good and right things, but what I am worried about is the implementation. He said and I quote:

“The Vision 2030 is to be a prosperous new deal income nation by 2030. Zambians by 2030 aspire to live a strong and dynamic middle income and industrial nation that provides for improving the well-being of all Zambians”.

He talked of an industrial nation and recognised that for this country to be wealthy on middle income nation, we need industries and technology. This was recognised even by the previous governments. If you look around, all the wealth nations, the G8 and many others are industrialised and technologically advanced nations. Therefore, what I would like to submit is that as a country Zambia, we need an industrial revolution if we are going to achieve this vision. As such, it calls for aggressiveness and radicalness from the Government to make sure that we achieve this vision and revive all the fallen industry, whatever they were those …

Mr Kambwili: Johnson and Johnson.

Mr Simuusa: … the assembly plants. The kind of radicalism that I am talking about is that you should have called the engineers to make the chassis engines so that we have cars made in Zambia instead of closing them. I am submitting if this vision is going to be achieved, we need a radical and very aggressive approach which is characteristic of an industrial revolution.

For lack of time, I would like to stop here.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Nyirongo (Bwacha): Madam Speaker, I rise to support the motion of Supply by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

A lot has been said in regard to this Budget, both negative and positive. Both of these views are relevant to the Government if it has to perform above expectations. This Budget has its own strengths and weaknesses. To me, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has tried to perform above expectations and to him, I say, let him accommodate both the negative and positive as this will help him excel in the performance of his duties.

Madam Speaker, in my contribution, let me start with the physical measures put in by this Government. This Government on your right has continued with a prudent fiscal management to avoid the re-emergency of budget deficit which fuel inflation. The issue of high taxes, to me, is not deliberate because this is one of the processes on the road map to the recovery of this economy. This Government to this regard has pledged to broaden the tax base so as to increase revenue collection and minimise the tax burden. They have continued providing various incentives to growth sectors like agriculture, manufacturing, mining and tourism as one way of unlocking resources for economic empowerment and wealth creation for the people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Nyirongo: They have also continued with the prudent diversification of public enterprises with the aim of minimizing recourse to the Budget. After yielding positive results, the issue of bringing down taxes is just on our door steps as our economy is on the road to recovery.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Nyirongo: This can be seen from the way this Government has managed to reduce inflation levels to a single digit and has also maintained a liberal exchange rate regime.

Madam Speaker, with this Government, we have managed to reach the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) point of completion and earned ourselves some debt cancellation. They might have not reached the level of Excellency, but we have seen some positive trends in the performance of the Budget. Indeed, we need to give the New Deal Government credit where it is due.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Nyirongo: They deserve to be encouraged as we are now proud that we belong to Zambia and we are Zambians. Further, since the economy is growing, this Government is determined and ready to unlock resources for economic empowerment and wealth creation; and as such they need our support.

Madam Speaker, some people would like to know where the keys are. I think let us leave it to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning because he knows where these keys are and he is the one who is going to unlock.

Interruptions

Reverend Nyirongo: Let us use this opportunity to give him support as he moves in the direction of unlocking these resources. This Minister has been exemplary in the manner he has been discharging his duties.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Nyirongo: Therefore, let us give praise where it is due.

Mr Nkombo: On a point of order, Madam!

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order on Hon. Nyirongo who is debating so well. Is she in order to indicate that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has got the key to this resource when at the moment workers and former workers at Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) are going through civil strive, they have even stopped working as a result of them not being paid their dues. Is she in order to continue misleading the nation?

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Mazabuka is concerned that the hon. Member for Bwacha debating has mentioned that the key to the unlocking of resources for economic empowerment and wealth creation is with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. He goes on to say there are people that are on civil strife because they have not been paid what he says are their dues. The guidance, once again, from this Chair is that the hon. Member debating believes in what she is debating and, therefore, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: …no one can really dispute in that manner that she feels the key is with the hon. Minister who has talked of unlocking and, therefore, she is in order to debate the way she is. You may continue.

Rev. Nyirongo: Madam Speaker, let me now focus my debate on the effects of the Budget on Bwacha Constituency. I want to speak on behalf of the people of Bwacha Constituency.

 Madam Speaker, we have seen a lot of developments in the constituency especially in education. We appreciate what the Ministry of Education has done in Bwacha Constituency …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: …because we have seen a lot of development.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: Most of the schools in Bwacha Constituency have undergone rehabilitation and they are actually in good shape.

Hon. Opposition Members: Lopsided!

Rev. Nyirongo: In addition to this, we have also seen the building of some community schools with the help of the Ministry of Education and community participation.

Hon. Members: Hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: The people in the constituency are very happy …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: … that children that used to walk long distances are now able to access education because the education has been brought to their doorsteps.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: Madam Speaker, in addition to this development, we are proud citizens of Kabwe that now we are going to have a university.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: We are not going to be fighting for the University of Zambia in Lusaka, but we are going to have our own Mulungushi University in Kabwe. 

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: What I would urge the hon. Minister to do is to take another mile by making Kabwe to be a town of learning. A town of excellence like the way the City of Oxford is. Try to think of Kabwe in the lines of making it the centre of learning.

Hon. Members: Hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: Where scholars will be there and getting all the richness of education from Kabwe.

Mr Imasiku: Nkrumah!

Rev. Nyirongo: We are very proud that even Nkrumah has been upgraded …

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: … and for that we commend the Ministry of Education and say Keep it up. We are looking for more that you will be able to do in Kabwe.

Interruptions

Rev. Nyirongo: Madam Speaker, through education with the aim of enhancing education, we have also used part of the Constituency Development Fund to also supplement in building these community schools.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: We have embarked on these capital projects and also the people are appreciating that the Constituency Development Fund has really worked and people are seeing the fruits and they are enjoying the benefits thereof.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Government Member: Hammer, hammer! Quality!

Rev. Nyirongo: Madam Speaker, let me also talk on Local Government and Housing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Rev. Nyirongo: This is also a ministry which has trickled benefits in Kabwe. For a long time in Kabwe we have been crying for water and sanitation. We have a very big project running right now on water and sanitation. Again, it is the New Deal Government at work because now those areas where we could not access good clean drinking water will be able to access it.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: Not only that, sanitation is also running side by side with this programme. Therefore, to the Government and the Ministry of Local Government and Housing we say well-done for hearing the cries of the people of Kabwe and this time round, we believe that the issue of Cholera will be history.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: Let me come again. I am talking about the benefits that Bwacha Constituency is enjoying from this Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: That is my point of focus.

Hon. Government Members: Hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: Let me talk again about Works and Supply.

Hon. Government Members: Hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: I am sure all of you used to see the roads in Kabwe.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: They where in a very deplorable state.

Hon. Members: Aah!

Rev. Nyirongo: We cried and the Government heard. This time you can drive in Kabwe on Kabwe Roads and you will enjoy your drive …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: …because the roads are smooth, the potholes are not there. You can even take a drive to Mukobeko Maximum Prison and the Prisoners ca be ferried from the prison to the court of law and this time they are not jumping out of the vehicles as they used to jump. That is history.

Interruptions

Rev. Nyirongo: Again, I commend the Government for the good work that they have done. I know they might not have done everything but at least we are saying we are seeing results.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: We are seeing something happening and, therefore, for the little that is happening, we are saying well-done because much is going to happen very soon.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: Madam Speaker, let me also speak on health. My constituency has benefited from the Ministry of Health in that they have built us a mini-hospital. This mini-hospital has really eased the burden of the Kabwe General Hospital. Many of the people now in Ngungu, Chimanimani and Walter townships do not rush to Kabwe General Hospital but are attended at Ngungu-Chimanimani Mini-Hospital. These, again, is another development which I feel I should commend this Government and tell them to continue and keep it up.

Hon. Government Members: Hear!

Rev. Nyirongo: Madam Speaker, lead pollution in Kabwe is an issue. Therefore, I want to talk about the environment. I have seen that this Government again has responded even to the issue of lead poisoning in Kabwe. We have seen that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development with the aid of ZCCM Investments and the World Bank have put in Kabwe a very big project. This project concerns the environment.

They have established play parks for the children and the children are enjoying those play parks. They have established and education learning centre where they have put computers and even television for the children to go and study and learn. 

Madam Speaker, it is not only that, but they have embarked on a very big water project - Water and Sanitation - from Makululu township and that township is going to benefit even in the construction of VIP toilets. Therefore, the people there are very happy.

Madam Speaker, as if this is not enough they are going to tar the Lukanga-Chililalila Road off Lusaka Road and will take it up to the airstrip.

Madam Speaker, the people are very happy. And they have also given themselves to tar the main Kamanda Market in Makululu and even where the clinic is. The people really are enjoying and thanking that this Government is putting effort in making the life of the people in Bwacha Constituency easy.

Interruptions

Mr Mwangala: North-Western Province now.

Rev. Nyirongo: Madam Speaker, let me now - I think I have spoken a lot.

Laughter

Rev. Nyirongo: We might not have everything but there is very big progress which everyone in Kabwe can evidently see.

Madam Speaker, in regard to economic empowerment, the people have benefited from PRP programmes where they have been given animals such as cattle and goats. The Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives is also at work in Kabwe and they have done their best.

Mr Chimbaka: On a point of order madam.

Rev. Nyirongo: We also appreciate for the little and expect the best to be done.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Reverend Nyirongo: Iwe jealous ninshi?

Laughter

Mr Chimbaka: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is it in order for the Hon. Reverend Nyirongo to outline a list of developmental projects taking place in Bwacha Constituency, and Kabwe in general, without mentioning how many churches she has built and how many people she intends to take to heaven.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: I think aba bantu balishibana.

Laughter

Mr Mukanga: Bapongoshi bobe balya iwe.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The concern of the hon. Member for Bahati is that the hon. Member debating is only talking about developmental projects and has not indicated how many churches she has build as a reverend and how many people she is taking to heaven.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: The Chair’s guidance is that this Budget is, strictly, limited to development and not church matters and she would be out of order if she started telling us about the churches. Therefore, she is order to debate the way she is.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: She may continue.

Reverend Nyirongo: Madam Speaker, in conclusion I have seen on many occasions that hon. Members of Parliament knock on the doors from ministry to ministry asking for development and projects to be done in their constituencies. My advice to this Government is that they should not only act when hon. Members of Parliament knock at the doors of the ministries …

Dr Njovu: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised and I hope this would be the last point order.

Dr Njovu: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order give us a long list of developmental activities taking place in ‘Kaw …

Hon. Opposition Members: Kabwe!

Dr Njovu: … Kabwe without talking about other roads in Eastern Province …

Laughter

Dr Njovu: … when the roads in Chipata and Lundazi have been neglected …

Hon. Opposition Members: Where she comes from!

Dr Njovu: … where she comes from. I need a serious ruling.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Milanzi has a raised a concern that …

Interruption

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

… the hon. Member for Bwacha is talking about Bwacha Constituency and Kabwe in general without talking about Chipata and Lundazi roads.

The guidance is very clear. The hon. Member debating is a Member of Parliament for Bwacha Constituency in Kabwe and is not compelled to have a cross country overview of development. Therefore she is very much in order.

Reverend Nyirongo: I thank you, Madam Speaker. I was saying that I just wanted to given advice to my Government that when hon. Members of Parliament follow them to their various ministries, it is not a very good indication. I think there should be proper planning by these ministries and development should be given freely and …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Nyirongo: … goods and services should be delivered to the whole nation …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Nyirongo: … equitably and without partiality.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Nyirongo: They are doing it for mother Zambia and it is the Zambians that cover the whole of this country. Therefore, I think, it should be prudent that all of us are given these services without any fear or favour.

With these few words that I have spoken, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, I thank you for according me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Floor of this House. I also wish to thank the seconder for the Motion and all the other speakers that have debated before me.

To begin with, I wish to advise our colleagues on your Right that even if they are in Government, it is prudent for them to call a spade a spade and not a spade a peak for the sake of impression.

When you speak in this House you must bear in mind that people in your Constituency are listening to what you are saying. It will not help you to keep on praising the Government even when you know that things are not alright.

The debate that came from Hon. Chipungu is questionable. Surely, the way he was speaking as if Rufunsa was Heaven on earth. Madam Speaker, when you go to Rufunsa, what you see is something else. Now, one wonders how the electorates of Rufunsa would look at their hon. Member of Parliament. Let us balance our debate. It is not good for you to keep on only mentioning the achievements in your Constituency without talking about the failures because it is only by way of bringing out the shortcomings in your constituency that Government can improve on them.

Mr Mukanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: However, the way these people are speaking …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order, maybe I can guide the hon. Member debating, particularly, for the hon. Deputy Minister (Mr Chipungu) who has been referred to. The hon. Deputy speaks for the Government and articulates the policies of the Government. He would be out of order if he came here to bemoan what is lacking in his constituency because it is the responsibility of the Executive, and as you have heard all the time, to tell us what they are doing. It is you to debate in the manner that you want. No them. Therefore, do not let people out there think that the hon. Deputy Minister or hon. Members of the Executive debated wrongly. They may want to debate the way you want, but they are compelled by collective responsibility and their policies. Therefore, they debate within policy. You may continue.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I wish we could have hon. Members of Parliament from the ruling party like former Member of Parliament for Chipili the late Intondo Mwemena Chindoloma who even if he belonged to the ruling party was able to criticise the Government. However, we heard the hon. Members for Liuwa (Mr Imasiku) debate as though Liuwa is Heaven on earth as well.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, we have been told in this House that there is a fish disease in Liuwa. The hon. Member could not even talk about this fish disease and the suffering of these people who are failing to get into the park for firewood. What kind of debate is this? Let us learn to balance because as much as you want to praise the appointing authorities, you should know that the people out there are listening to your debates. It is shame to create an impression that Zambia is heaven on earth when people are suffering.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I have a lot of respect for Hon. Magande but let me state that his statement in the Budget that poverty levels in the urban areas have drastically reduced is incorrect. It is misleading and unprofessional. He should withdraw that statement.

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: Madam, it is extremely misleading that poverty levels have reduced in the urban areas. Who lives in the urban areas? It is teachers, policemen and civil servants in general. Now, look at the money that a civil servant gets. A civil servant gets between K700,000 and K1 million. A family of six people cannot live on one million kwacha per month. You will find in an average house, people are living on vegetables monthend to monthend. Is that what you call reduction in poverty levels when people can feed on rape and chibwabwa? People are only feeding on vegetables that start with, “I”, for example, impwa, ibondwe and the rest.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Then the hon. Minister comes here and tells us that poverty levels have reduced in the urban areas. That is really being irresponsible to say the least. I would urge Hon. Magande, with the respect that I have for him, when he comes to debate, he should withdraw that statement because it is tantamount to insulting the people of Zambia that live in the urban areas.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, look at a policeman. The policemen earn about K700,000 and they live in deplorable states. Their houses are cracked and they have squatting toilets. When you go to ask for a policeman, a child will tell you that, “nabaya ku toilet.” This means that they have gone to the toilet. This is because the toilet is not inside the House. It is far. The Government should build descent houses for the policemen so that when we ask for someone, people can say, “he is in the toilet.” This means that the toilet is within the house.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Madam, it is irresponsible of the worst kind to state that poverty levels in urban areas have reduced.

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: Madam, if a domestic worker gets K150,000, he or she is a very lucky. The lowest paid as outlined by Government in their Statutory Instrument is K268,000. That is what most of the guards get. You know that in Zambia today, the most available job is that of a guard. Now, if a guard is getting K268,000, will it be prudent for this hon. Minister to come to this House and state that poverty levels have reduced. Can we be responsible in the way we handle the people of Zambia. They are the people that vote us and let us give Government the correct perception of what is happening in our communities.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, on Budget execution, K900 billion going back to the Treasury is a big shame on this Government because it shows their inability to handle and implement projects as outlined in the Budget. This is lack of seriousness by the Government. Nobody should come and say no, Madam Speaker, in the past, you were not being told that money had gone now because we are telling you that money has gone back to the Budget, we are doing well as the Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Kambwili: This is extremely bad. If crying was allowed, I could have shed tears in this House because of that statement.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Madam, what impact has the going back of the K900 billion to the Treasury got on my constituency? For instance, the Roan/Mpatamatu Road was provided for in last year’s Budget but because of this K900 billion, this road has not been done. I have been crying for the construction of the Kasununu Community School since I came but nothing has been done. It has not even started. Not even a foundation has been done. In last year’s Budget, there was a provision for the demarcation of squatter land for the people in Maposha area.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister for Copperbelt and I went to address the people of that area and told them that there was money in the Budget and that land would be demarcated. At last, what has happened? The hon. Minister cannot even go back to face the people of that area. This is because of the inefficiency by the people that are supposed to implement the Budget, who are the executives and their subordinates, the civil servants. Somebody stood up in the House and said, “does a hon. Minister sign cheques?” He even further said that they are not responsible for delivering development. It is the civil servants. When you go to the ministry, who is the boss? Is it the civil servants or the hon. Minister?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Do not come here and mislead the House and the nation. Take the responsibility for failing to deliver to the people of Zambia. The people of Zambia will judge you on your performance and not on your pronouncements that are so misleading as the way we heard from the hon. Member for Liuwa. I wished Liuwa Constituency had Parliament Radio. I am sure that hon. Member was not even going to go back to his constituency.
 
Laughter

Mr Kambwili: Madam, let us be serious with the way we debate in this House.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the tax burden. The Patriotic Front Policy on Pay As You Earn (PAYE) is more money in people’s pockets.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, to increase the free threshold of Pay As You Earn from K500,000 to K600,000 is an insult to the people of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: The hon. Minister announced that it will lead to a loss of about K64 billion. Why not take it to K700,000 so that it leads to a loss of K128 billion. It is inevitable. The people need this reduction. People are failing to send children to schools. As Government, you know that you are the people through your institutions that increase the fees to colleges and secondary schools. This increase in the fees to secondary schools and colleges is not commensurate with the rise in the pay of the civil servants. You know that you have increased the fees at the University of Zambia. Your children can afford. What is happening is that the people that assess funds through the Bursaries Committee…

Professor Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order on the hon. Member who is debating so vigorously to the point of blowing up the roof of this honourable House.

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, is he in order to mislead the nation that there has been an increase in the fees at the University of Zambia?

Madam Deputy Speaker: That is a point of order on fact. The hon. Member debating may have to make it very clear to the nation so that the nation is aware that there is this increase. The hon. Minister of Education is unaware that there is an increase in the fees payable to the University of Zambia. If that is not for a fact and you are speaking of the past, you may withdraw and put it in the right perspective. The hon. Member may continue and consider this ruling.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Education has shown from the past that he is not always aware of things happening in his ministry.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: An increment, whether taken two years ago is an increment.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The Chair would take it that that is misleading because the people are aware of the increments of the past. When you make a pronouncement here that fees have been increased, the parents out there are waiting to hear about the increment that has been made to the fees.

Therefore, it is important that we tell this House and the nation with a lot of clarity so that the nation is not misinformed. Tomorrow, people can go to the hon. Minister asking how much has been increased. Therefore, hon. Member, you may have to put it correctly and not mislead the nation.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, since the last increase, fees at the University of Zambia have remained stagnant, but unaffordable by the ordinary people of Zambia.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: That is a point that I was driving home. In any case, when you hear too many points of order then you know that the pressure is being felt.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning indicated in his Budget speech that the manufacturing industry has reduced and has been going down. What are the reasons behind this reduction, hon. Minister? You need to assess and see where we are coming from and where we are going. You need to look at the causes and the solutions. How do you expect the manufacturing industry to prosper when we have cheap Chinese clothes on our market? How do we expect our manufacturers to compete with people who are able to produce a jacket at $ 1? How? We need to bring in certain restrictions to these cheap Chinese clothes so that we can support our local manufacturers.

Madam Speaker, talking about juice, we have a lot of fruits in Zambia but we have cheap juice from South Africa and Europe, which cannot compete with our juice in Zambia. What do we need to do to protect our manufacturers of juices like DK Enterprises? We need to bring in a law that says no juice in Zambia must come from South Africa. Then we will improve our manufacturing industry.

We have seen a situation where even toilet paper is imported from South Africa. We need to come up with a legislation that will deter anybody from importing toilet paper.

Mr Mbulakulima: On a point of order, Madam.

The Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

I hope that it is something you cannot deal with in your debate.

Mr Mbulakulima: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member debating, and who started his debate on a professional, note by advising this House to balance the equation when debating, and instead of accusing this Government …

The Deputy Speaker: Raise your point of order.

Mr Mbulakulima: Madam Speaker, it is six minutes to go before he winds up his debate …

The Deputy Speaker: Raise your point of order.

Mr Mbulakulima: Is he in order not to debate about the positive aspects of this Government as he stated himself.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mbulakulima: Is the hon. Member in order not to fulfill his own words.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The Chair’s ruling is that you cannot compel him to be positive. You may continue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I thank you. I was saying that we are even allowing the importation of toilet paper from South Africa. How do we protect our manufacturing industries to improve, if we can allow the importation of tissue? When you go into Shoprite, three quarters of the toilet paper on the shelves is South African brand. Unless we are serious about these issues, our manufacturing industry will continue going down.

Madam Speaker, on agriculture …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

_________

The House adjourned at 1955 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 6th February, 2008

 

 

 

 

APPENDIX TO QUESTION 105

ADULT LITERACY CLASSES IN NANGOMA CONSTITUENCY

Name of Literacy Instructor  No. of Students  Status
Class

Lutwane  Merina   26   Active
   Ntobolo

Zumanana  Louis Chani  25   Active

Chinkupe  Louis Chani  27   Active

Miyoba  Louis Chani  14   Active

Makanda  Louis Chani  22   Active

Chiwenda  Rosina   18   Active
   Shamilenja 
 
Mamvula  Annie Banda  15   Active

Tusupuke  Margarate  36   Active
   Habeenzu

Kabula (a)  David   25   Active
   Chindano

Kabula (b)  David    25   Active
   Chindano

Atusole (a)  Regina   37   Active
   Mwangala

Atusole (b)  Judith    47   Active
   Kapumba

Matelo  Killian   25   Active
   Mweetwa