DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 8th February, 2008

The House met at 0900 hours

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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BUSINESS OF THE HOUSE

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

On Tuesday, 12th February, 2008, the Business of the House will commence with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will continue with the consideration of the Motion of Supply on the 2008 Budget.

 On Wednesday, 13th February, 2008, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will consider Private Members’ Motions, if there will be any. On this day, the expanded Committee on Estimates which was mandated to consider this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure will present its report. Thereafter, the House will consider the general policy debate on the Motion of Supply. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply to begin consideration of individual heads of expenditures in this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure. 
On Thursday, 14th February, 2008, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the following heads:

Head 01 – Office of the President – State House;
Head 02 – Office of the Vice-President;
Head 03 – National Assembly;
Head 05 – The Electoral Commission; and
Head 06 – Public Service Commission – Office of the President.

Madam, on Friday, 15th February, 2008, the Business of the House will begin with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. Then, the House will consider Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of the Government Bills, if there will be any. Thereafter, the House will go into Committee of Supply on the 2008 Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and the following heads will be considered:

Head 07 – Office of the Auditor-General;
Head 08 – Cabinet Office – Office of the President;
Head 09 – Teaching Service Commission – Office of the President;
Head 10 – Police and Prisons Service Commission; and
Head 12 – Commission for Investigations – Office of the President.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

__________________

 

 

QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

CONSTRUCTION OF HIGH SCHOOLS IN LUAPULA PROVINCE FROM 2001 TO 2007

129. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) how many high schools were constructed in the Luapula Province from 2001 to 2007;

(b) which contractors were engaged to construct the schools at (a) above; and

(c) how much was spent on the above projects.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Madam Speaker, there has been no construction of new high schools in the Luapula Province from 2001 to 2007. However, I want to emphasise that this caring and hard working Government is going to have contracts in 2008 to construct three high schools, namely; Lukwesa Day High School in Mwense District, Ponde Day High School in Chienge District and Milenge Boarding High School in Milenge District.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, I just want to ask the hon. Minister what intentions the ministry has with regard to rehabilitation of high schools which are not in good state.

Mr Muteteka: A plan and not intentions.

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Speaker, the stated question of intentions is a question of the programme which we have as Government. I have been emphasising in this House that as part of the infrastructure development programme…

Mr D. Mwila: I want an answer.

Professor Lungwangwa: Can you, please, listen. As part of the infrastructure development which this Government has, we have construction of new infrastructure.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Professor Lungwangwa:  We are constructing new high schools in Luapula. Secondly, we have a rehabilitation programme for our dilapidated infrastructure. We also have a maintenance programme as part of the infrastructure development programme which this Government is undertaking on a continuous basis. It is, therefore, not a question of intention, but a question of a programme which is already in place.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, out of the thirty-one high schools that this Government has embarked on building, Luapula Province has only three and yet Chibombo District has four. I would like to find out the rationale behind this when Luapula Province is almost seven times bigger than Chibombo District.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, our construction programme, as I keep on emphasising, is based on the information we have through our school planning process or 
programme which we undertake. The school mapping programme indicates to us, as a ministry, where the areas of greater deficiency are. We give that a priority and this is what we do.

Thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out when the hon. Minister is going to make available the plan to hon. Members who are the stakeholders so that we know the programmes that they have.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Be like Silvia.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, if the hon. Member cares on arguing basis, our district education officers undertake investigations on the dilapidated structures which, of course, forms part of the rehabilitation programmes we normally undertake. This comes from time to time. It was only last week when I stated on the Floor of this House that we had disbursed through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning K10.4 billion for the rehabilitation of blown off roofs. I made this very clear and this programme is on a continuous basis as need arises.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, may I know why there is a difference in the manner issues are approached within the same Government. The hon. Minister of Works and Supply has given us a plan for the next so many years …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: … as to what he will do in addressing the roads. Why is the hon. Minister refusing to give us a work plan say, for 5 years?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the ministry has not refused to give that information. I pointed out in this House not a long time ago that we have an infrastructure development plan which we are currently working on as a ministry. This plan will be made available to the hon. Members of Parliament when it is ready.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: I made this very clear. There is no way I can bring an incomplete infrastructure development plan.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: It has to be completed, first of all, before it is made available.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minster stated in his reply that his Government considers deficiencies in terms of provision of education before they allocate new high schools. Can the hon. Minister confirm to this House that in their analysis, the deficiencies in Chibombo District in terms of high schools are more than the deficiencies that are in Luapula Province?

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, we all know that the deficiencies in the provision of high schools are there in many parts of our country. That is a fact. For a long time, there has not been a programme for building high schools in our country and this Government …

Interruption

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Professor Lungwangwa: … has embarked on a programme of constructing high schools in our country. Given the resource constraints, we cannot construct a high school in every part of the country at once.

Interruption

Professor Lungwangwa: The resource levels cannot allow that, but we are in the process of constructing the high schools.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

SALE OF TEACHERS HOUSES IN KANKOYO PARLIAMENTARY CONSTITUENCY

131. Mr Chanda (Kankoyo) asked the Minister of Education whether the Ministry had plans to sell the teacher’s houses in the mine school and Tangatta Teachers’ Compound in Kankoyo Parliamentary Constituency to sitting tenants.

Mr Sinyinda: Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that all the houses that are on the same title with the school are considered to be institutional houses as the case is at Tangatta Teachers’ Compound. Therefore, the houses will not be sold for they are institutional houses.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out …

Mr Malama: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Is the point of order on procedure?

Mr Malama: Yes, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Two days ago, I was debating in this House and indicated that depending on the distribution of wealth, it may bring a lot of confusion in this country.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Is the hon. Minister of Education in order to allocate four high schools in Chibombo District when there are some districts with no high schools? Is the hon. Minister, surely, in order to allocate national resources like this? I need your serious ruling, Madam.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The serious ruling from the Chair is that the hon. Member wants to draw this House back just to the question that we have handled. If there is any follow up, you can do that under different business. However, for now, that question regarding the allocation of schools has already been dealt with just this morning. It is not our procedure to go back to the same thing that we have just gone through.

 May the hon. Member for Kantanshi continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out why this Government is playing double standards in the sale of houses because similar houses which are on the same title deeds in Luanshya at Mikambo Primary School were sold to the sitting tenants who are the teachers. Why have they not sold the same houses in Mufulira? What is the problem?

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, the answer is simple. As indicated in our response, institutional houses, like in this case, are or were not eligible for sale.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Madam Speaker, I appreciate that institutional houses are not for sale, but I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures are being put in place to ensure that our teachers who are poor acquire houses.

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Speaker, information is readily available in terms of access to loans not only from our ministry, but also in the financial market. Of course, we have limited funding to that effect. This information is there for our teachers.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

THE SHERIFFS OF ZAMBIA

132. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Justice:

(a) how much money was raised by the Sheriff of Zambia in the form of commission or execution fees in the following years:

(i)  2001 to 2005; and

(ii) 2006 to 2007;

(b) how the money was accounted for; and

(c) whether the Government had any plans to review the Sheriff’s Act so as to provide for the Sheriff’s fees and costs to be recovered after the plaintiff’s principal sum has been paid.

The Minister of Justice, (Mr Kunda, SC): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the Sheriffs of Zambia raised K4,518,649,320.39 in form of commission and execution fees for the period from 2001 to 2005. A total of K2,439,697,629.60 was raised for the period from 2006 to 2007. All fees collected are deposited in the Judiciary Fees Collection Account maintained and controlled by the Chief Administrator of the Judiciary. The fees form part of the budget estimates of the Judiciary approved by Parliament.

Lastly, there are no immediate plans to review the Sheriffs Act so as to provide for the Sheriffs fees and costs to be recovered after the plaintiff’s principal sum has been paid. If the levy realised after execution is less than what was expected, Sheriffs fees and costs are deducted from the amount realised and a report is then rendered to advise the plaintiff to reissue the process.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the learned and hon. Minister of Justice whether this is not disadvantaging the principles or the people that have sued to allow the Sheriffs of Zambia to collect their fees first before they collect the principle sum executed.

Mr Kunda, SC: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member has an interest in debt collection matters. I want to say that the Sheriffs of Zambia also does some work in collecting some of these debts. Therefore, the Sheriff of Zambia has a lien with regards to its fees on whatever amount is recovered arising from the work that the Sheriffs Office does.

Madam, if the plaintiff moves the Sheriff’s Office, that means spending money going to the debtor’s and defendant’s places. Therefore, that money should take priority or the expenditure incurred by the Sheriff should take priority in terms of recovery. In this regard, he should also look at the interest of the Sheriff’s Office and not only the interest of the parties.

I thank you, Madam.

COMMENCEMENT OF WORKS ON CHIPATA/LUNDAZI ROAD

133. Mr C. K. Banda, SC (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) whether the ministry had de-designed the Chipata-Lundazi Road and, if so, whether funds to resurface the road had been sourced; and

(b) when works on the road would commence.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Madam Speaker, the ministry has received funding from the Arab Bank for Economic Development in Africa (BADEA) to carry out a feasibility study and a preliminary engineering design for the rehabilitation of the existing Chipata/Lundazi Road. The Draft Preliminary Study Report has opted for three possible technical solutions for the rehabilitation of the road, namely:

(i) pothole patching and double surface dressing;

(ii) pothole patching and overlay of asphalt concrete; and

(iii) pothole patching, graded crushed stone base and asphalt concrete.

Madam, all technical solutions include the reinstatement of the shoulders and improvement of drainage and drainage structures. The final study report will serve as a basis for requesting funds from BADEA to carry out rehabilitation of the project road in accordance with the recommended design. The rehabilitation of the project road will only commence when BADEA is satisfied with the results of the study and when funds for rehabilitation are approved and committed by the board of BADEA.

Madam, the ministry through the Road Development Agency (RDA) has, however, included K8 billion in the 2008 Annual Work Plan to be funded by the Road Fund component for the rehabilitation of the road. The works will be done to the standard of pothole patching and double surface dressing.

Madam, I thank you.

 

 

FORESTRY PLANTATIONS IN EASTERN PROVINCE

134. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) how many forestry plantations were in the Eastern Province and what their names were;

(b) how many hectares of trees at (a) above were harvested from 2004 to 2006, year by year;

(c) how many trees were planted each year in the plantations at (a) above;

(d) how much money the Government had realised from the sale of timber harvested from the plantations in the Eastern Province from 2004 to date; and

(e) whether there were any plans to establish new plantations in other parts of the Eastern Province.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Chilembo): Madam Speaker, there are seven plantations in Eastern Province, namely, Mupya in Petauke, Chimtengo in Katete, Chandola in Chadiza, Msipazi in Chipata, Masupe in Chipata and Kaluwe in Lundazi.

Madam, the number of trees at (a) above that were harvested from 2004 to 2006 cannot be given in hectares, but can be given in cubic metres as follows:

 

Timber harvested in cubic metres

Name of Plantation                              2004                            2005                       2006

Mupya                                                 146.17                        87.67                      54.93
Chimtengo                                           7,896.66                     289.39                    606.56
Mindola                                                550.81                        2,100.21                 0
Chandola                                              0                                 0                           0
Msipazi                                                257.28                        87.66                     155.83
Masupe                                                0                                 0                            0
Kaluwe                                                338.64                         397.15                  228.13

Total                                                    9,189.42                    2,962.08                  1,045.45

Madam Speaker, the information for the plantations cannot be given according to the number of trees that were planted, instead it is given according to the number of hectares that were replanted in each year in the plantations at (a) above as follows: 

Area Replanted (Ha)

Name of Plantation         2004         2005         2006

Mupya                             0                  0               0
Chimtengo                       7.5               7.0            0
Mindola                            0                 1               2
Chandola                         0                 0               0
Msipazi                            2                 2               3
Masupe                           2                 2                2
Kaluwe                            0                10              3

Total                                11.5            22.0          10

Madam Speaker, as regards part (d), the Government realised the following revenue from the sale of timber harvested from the plantations in Eastern Province from 2004 to date as follows:

Revenue Generated (ZK)

Name of Plantation                                     2004                         2005                   2006

Mupya                                                         1, 549, 300               1,390,500           946,700
Chimtengo                                                   49,703,300              10,474,000          38, 252,400
Mindola                                                        20,837,900              11,299,400           Nil
Chandola                                                      Nil                            Nil                         Nil
Msipazi                                                         9,107,900                3,205,100             2,968,960
Masupe                                                         Nil                            Nil                          Nil
Kaluwe                                                         16,517,400              28,884,400            24,400,000

Total                                                               97,715,800              55,253,400          66,568,000
Madam Speaker, with regard to part (e), the Government has no plans to establish new plantations in other parts of Eastern Province. At present, the Ministry through the Forestry Department will concentrate on expansion and replanting of the already existing plantations. However, the private sector is encouraged to establish plantations.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr I. Banda:  Madam Speaker, does the hon. Minister know that most of the timber used in Eastern Province comes from Malawi? Why not develop our own resources in the pine industry?

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, as a Ministry, there are plans of expanding plantations, not only in Eastern Province, but in the country as a whole. It is a different question if Malawi is doing better than us. However, the hon. Member for Lumezi will be comforted to know that the Ministry plans to expand the Msipazi and Chimtengo plantations in Katete so that we have sizeable plantations which can have an impact rather than opening other smaller plantations. Plans are there to expand so that we can also be competitive.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Simama (Kalulushi): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what species of trees are in the mentioned plantations?

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, the species comprise pine and eucalyptus.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! I think there is a lot of loud consultation. Can we consult quietly, please?

Mr Mukanga: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the Ministry last carried a forestry inventory in Eastern Province.

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Mukanga for that question. We have not taken an inventory for a long time because we have a problem with the implementation of the Forestry Commission. Therefore, at the moment, we are still using a 1973 Act, which actually has failed to make us carry out an inventory.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Ngoma (Sinda): Madam Speaker, Chimtengo Plantation is in my constituency. An amount of over K2 million is sometimes raised in a day. How sensible is it that in 2006, the plantation only raised K36 million. Does the Government audit funds in plantations?

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, we audit and the figures are as we have given to the House.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Madam Speaker, now that the hon. Minister has realised that the Act he is using is not giving him enough power to audit and take stock of the forests, when will the hon. Minister bring that particular legislation for amendment? He appears like he is helpless when it is his job.

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Muntanga for that question. We already have the Act for the commission. I would like him to know that we are working with our co-operating partners so that Government implements the commission.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The question is on the Act.

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, the Act was already done in this House.

I thank you, Madam.{mospagebreak}

SECOND HAND VEHICLES IMPORTED INTO ZAMBIA FROM 2001 TO 2007

135. Mr Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport:

(a) how many second hand or used motor vehicles were imported into Zambia from 2001 to 2007 year by year;

(b) what measures the Government had taken to regulate the use of defective motor vehicles on Zambian roads; and

(c) what penalty was imposed on users of defective motor vehicles to deter them from doing so.

The Deputy Minister Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the House that the following second hand or used motor vehicles were imported in Zambia from 2001 to 2007:

Year     No. of Vehicles

2001             4,739
2002             5,398
2003             6,026
2004              8,871
2005              21,491
2006             29,228
2007             34,044

Total               109,798

Madam Speaker, as regards part (b) of the question, I would like to inform the House that the Government of the Republic of Zambia through the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTCA) enforces provisions from Sections 19 to 23 of the Road Traffic Act No. 11 of 2002 regarding roadworthiness of motor vehicles moving on Zambian roads. In order to ensure that motor vehicles moving on the Zambia roads are roadworthy, it is a requirement that all motor vehicles have valid certificate of fitness issued by a motor vehicle examiner. When issuing the certificate of fitness, the motor vehicle examiner physically examines the motor vehicle and checks for the following:

(i) body (chassis frame, dents, mirrors, seats and safety belts);

(ii) motor vehicle electrical system;

(iii) brakes;

(iv) suspension;

(v) steering wheel;

(vi) engine performance;

(vii) condition of tyres;

(viii) motor vehicle cleanliness;

(ix) transmission;

(x) compulsory accessories and requirements;

(xi) silencer; and

(xii) spare wheels.

Madam Speaker, upon being satisfied that the motor vehicle presented before him or her passes all above test, the motor vehicle examiner recommends the issuance of a certificate of fitness for such a vehicle. The certificate of fitness is valid for 1 year for private motor vehicles and public service ferrying goods and 3 months for public service vehicles ferrying passengers.

This kind of inspecting motor vehicles based on human observation is not the best that exhaustively diagnoses defects on motor vehicles. As a result and in accordance with the GRZ policy to outsource motor vehicle inspection service to private sector, the RTSA has finalised and submitted terms of reference to the World Bank for a feasibility study to assess the opportunities, capabilities and challenges of outsourcing this service to the private sector. The feasibility study is expected to be undertaken soon. The RTSA is also working at procuring automated motor vehicle examination centres which will act as centres of excellence and which private sector players may use to benchmark their services.

Madam Speaker, with regard to (c), the Government through the agency has intensified road traffic patrols. During road patrols, check points are mounted. Those vehicles found to be moving without valid certificate of fitness are impounded. Once impounded, the owners are fined a fee of K135,000.00 and their vehicles are only released upon rectifying the defects on their vehicles if there are any.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Madam Speaker, what are the implications of having so many motor vehicles on old and narrow roads in Zambia? If there are negative implications, what is the ministry doing to rectify them?

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, that question is misdirected because the issue of maintaining of roads is under the Ministry of Works and Supply.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Madam Speaker, from the answer given by the hon. Minister, it is obvious that we have too many second hand cars in Zambia. Are there any plans by Government in the near or maybe far future to revive Livingstone Motor Assembly so that we drive new cars instead of importing these old finished second hand cars?

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, the issue of importing second motor vehicles is open to the public sector. The Government has made it easy for the public to open up such plants in dealing with second hand vehicles.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Madam Speaker,…

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: I will not point a finger. Arising from the …

Interruptions

Mr Ntundu: Madam Speaker, I need your protection.

Madam Deputy Speaker: You are listening to them. Address the Chair and speak.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Madam Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister has said that the number of second motor vehicles imported is rising year by year and this in essence means that there is more work for road traffic officers. I would like to find out what the ministry is doing with the Road Traffic Safety Agency looking at the volume of work that is coming year after year for them to ensure that fitness and registration of motor vehicles is done within the shortest possible time other than what is obtaining where you have to queue for one week to just get a certificate of fitness.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Communication and Transport (Mrs Sayifwanda): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for asking that question. If the hon. Member was following what the hon. Deputy Minister said in response to part (b), he stated that RTSA is working at procuring an automated motor vehicles examination centre which will act as a centre of excellence. Maybe, it is the language, but let me put it in simple language…

Laughter

Mrs Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, let me clarify the issue for the information of the hon. Member. This simply means that the agency is in the process of procuring a computerised gadget which will make the process fast.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kanyanyamina (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, “seeing is believing.” We are asking for tangible results. When are you going to bring in the famous machines that you are procuring? Zambians are fed up of hearing stories. We will believe when we see them.

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, it is not possible for the Ministry of Communications and Transport to give this honourable House the date. However, RTSA has already submitted feasibility studies to the World Bank. Immediately the World Bank responds, this will take into effect.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister is giving an impression to the House that new equipment will be bought, but when you move on our roads, you would wonder whether some of these vehicles passed road fitness test. If you check on the certificate, you will find that …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Ask your question!

Mr Chanda: I am coming, Madam.

Laughter

Mr Chanda: … a vehicle had only been to a fitness test about a week ago. When is this Government going to be so serious that it passes vehicles that are fit?

Mr Lubinda: Uko!

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Member for his concern. Let me give a brief history on this. Early this year, the agency wanted to undertake thorough examinations of vehicles, but members of the public, especially motorists complained bitterly.

Mr Munaile: It is the capacity kaili!

Ms Sayifwanda: Now, I do not know what the hon. Member would love to see from this agency. Each time the agency wants to do the correct thing, people try to contravene what is on the ground. The agency is already in the process of procuring this gadget and as soon as this gadget comes, these complaints will not be there because everything will be done on time.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Madam Speaker, what preventive measures are being put in place to avoid this country becoming a dumping ground of second hand vehicles that may cause a serious concern in this country if we do not acquire proper areas where to get rid of them after being utilised for a life span of two and half years?

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, it is us, Zambians, that are importing this vehicles.

Hon. Government Members: Yes!

Ms Sayifwanda: Now, I wonder why the hon. Member should ask that question. We have to take it upon ourselves to see to it that what we are bringing in the country is of good state. The Ministry of Communications and Transport cannot publicly stop people from ordering such vehicles and so the public should take that measure.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Njobvu (Milanzi): Madam Speaker, knowing that to get a license takes more than a week, what plans does the ministry have to decentralise road licences?
Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, I am aware that certificates or licenses can be obtained at any time immediately after the announcement. However, the problem with the motorists is that they wait until the last date. As a result, they start panicking.

Early this year, I had to forfeit and allowed the agency to extend the days. Next time, I am not going to do this. Motorists must be aware that when they are given a stipulated time, they should follow.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, in response to this question the hon. Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport made reference to the fact that his ministry is now conducting a feasibility study to engage the private sector in performing this function. How are they going to harmonise this position considering the fact in November 2006, RTSA advertised for the private sector to apply to participate in the inspection of motor vehicles? Having advertised in November 2006, how could they claim now to be carrying out a feasibility study? What is the position?

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, this able Government through my ministry believes in transparency.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

Ms Sayifwanda: As a result, I have to ensure that all the loopholes are sealed. I would not love to see any cheating because it is this same House again which will come to the ministry …

Hon. Opposition Members: Answer the question!

Ms Sayifwanda: I am answering the question.

Interruptions

Hon. Government Members: Do not listen to them!

Ms Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, the ministry through the agency would love to see that all the loopholes are sealed, hence taking a thorough investigation.

Hon. Member interjected.

Ms Sayifwanda: Yes, that was announced, but we want to make sure that everything is put in place.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

PROVISION OF VEHICLES TO POLICE POSTS IN NANGOMA

136. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Home Affairs when police posts in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency would be provided with vehicles for their operations.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Ms Njapau): Madam Speaker, a vehicle was given to Nangoma in 2006.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hamusonde: Madam Speaker, as far as I know, there are no vehicles in Nangoma Constituency. Is the hon. Deputy Minister aware that because of lack of transport, crime is high in the area?

Ms Njapau: Madam Speaker, the ministry is aware and that is why we sent in 2006 a vehicle. When money is available, we are going to buy another vehicle for Nangoma Constituency. In fact, it is not only Nangoma Constituency is in need of vehicles, but the whole country.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Quality! Hear, hear!

Mr Mwangala (Nalolo): Madam Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government has any plans to open an immigration post at Imusho in Sesheke District.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The hon. Minister of Home Affairs may give a bonus answer to that concern.

Ms Njapau: Madam Speaker, this is a new question, but if need arises, we will do that.

Thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ntundu: Madam Speaker, it is a fact to say that the Ministry of Home Affairs does much of its work at police posts. Police posts have more work than some of the police stations.  In many instances, the hon. Minister has explained in this House that the vehicles end up either at police stations or at the police headquarters. Now, how is the hon. Minister himself going to make sure that these vehicles that they proclaim in this House reach the police posts where there is more work?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha) Madam Speaker, hon. Members are fascinated by my hon. Deputy Minister who is answering very well.

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, first and foremost, all the vehicles that are bought for the Police Force are distributed by the Police Command and this is done according to the operational requirements of a particular wing. The Ministry does not instruct the police to distribute vehicles to the various police posts, but the demands of their operations in the Police Force demands that vehicles are issued to all these stations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Munaile (Malole): Madam Speaker, the Police Force bought a lot of TATA vehicles and most of them are not working today. What is the Government or ministry doing to ensure that spare parts are procured for these vehicles?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, TATA was established in Zambia and so the Police Force will continue to purchase spare parts from them. Over and above that, we have also gone ahead to replace these vehicles, where we have found them inadequate. In fact, some hon. Members, especially in Northern Province have bought Toyota and Nissan vehicles that are now available.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, when will the hon. Minister of Home Affairs buy boats for Luapula Constituency because people do not need vehicles there?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, we have repaired some boats in Luapula Province and Zambezi in North-Western Province so that our policemen can be effective.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Speaker, when TATA vehicles were bought, the hon. Minister came in this House and announced that they will fix certain gadgets to control speed and centralise repairs and maintenance of these vehicles at headquarters. This has not done. What went wrong with this system?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, we take all vehicles to the TATA Workshop in Lusaka for repairs.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister of Home Affairs aware that some of the police stations in the country are marginalised by the provincial command in the distribution of these vehicles?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, a commander in the field who marginalises his forces that are fighting crime will be ineffective. Therefore, it is not possible for any of the police commanders that are in the field to marginalise certain units because they will become ineffective. Resources are not sufficient to give to every unit in the area. If the Member of Parliament would help us by seeing where crime is high, he can then discuss with those that are on the ground and we will support by moving certain units and taking certain resources to that area.

Thank you, Madam.

MEASURES TAKEN TO IMPROVE STAFFING LEVELS IN HEALTH INSTITUTIONS IN SOUTHERN PROVINCE

138. Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central) asked the Minister of Health what measures have been taken to improve the staffing levels of medical doctors, nurses and other general workers in health institutions in the Southern Province, in general, and Choma Parliamentary Constituency, in particular.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Puma): Madam Speaker, beginning in November 2007, Southern Province has so far received ten medical doctors posted by the Ministry of Health and these have been distributed as follows:

(i) Livingstone General Hospital  2
(ii) Livingstone District               1
(iii) Kalomo District    1
(iv) Sinazongwe District               1
(v) Choma Hospital    2
(vi) Macha Mission Hospital   2
(vii) Namwala District    1

Total       10

Other Medical Personnel include:

(i) Registered Nurses     38
(ii) Zambia Enrolled Nurses    57
(iii) Clinical Officers     20
(iv) Environmental Health Technologists   27
(v) Laboratory Technicians    6
(vi) Radiographers     3
(vii) Pharmacist      1
(viii) Physiotherapy Technologists    6
(ix) Dental Therapists     1
(x) Pharmacy Technologists    2
(xi) Pharmacy Dispenser     1

Total               162

Madam Speaker, the distribution of the medical personnel is actually a continuous process.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, has the Government considered improving the conditions of service to motivate and lure back those that have left the country and also to halt the brain-drain?

The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Madam Speaker, yes, the Ministry of Health has been working on modalities of motivating workers. However, this is at two levels. The first one deals with conditions and salaries, which is always negotiated centrally with the unions that represent health workers.

The second special aspect to lure and retain health workers that are here is a scheme that we have called the Zambia Health Workers Retention Scheme. In this scheme, we have mapped out this country to access health services in remote areas. This scheme started with only medical officers, but it has now been extended to tutors in our nursing schools because the human resource, as the question is alluding to, hinges on having healthy personnel in order for us to provide quality health services. In fact, this is a scheme that adds a bit more to our health workers to feel special and motivated.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Speaker, for more than 15 years now, the workers in rural health posts have no training at all. During the reign of the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), are we looking forward to a time when we are going to have a plan to train the staff in the rural health posts?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi was in Government just before coming to this House and he is aware of the programmes that are going on in the districts.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, one of the issues discussed in this House is that the Ministry of Health is holding too many workshops for health workers. Now, it is surprising that the hon. Member is saying the exact opposite. I want to state that before anybody is sent to a health post, they undergo training in order to equip them so that know how to deal with the issues out there. We also train health workers periodically at district level so that they can be updated with information to cope adequately with the work that they encounter. Therefore, the plans are there each year and training is undertaken. 

I thank you, Madam.

Dr Katema (Chingola): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister has given us the number of medical personnel in Southern Province. Now, what is the establishment so that we compare with the shortfall?

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, indeed, that is a new question that requires accurate researched information. Therefore, if the hon. Member for Chingola can pose this question next time, we shall be able to provide detailed information on the establishment.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Habeenzu (Chikankata): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why the Government has stopped the district management from employing health workers. What is happening now is that the district management has to wait for headquarters to send health workers to the districts.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that question. The employer of health workers is the Public Service Management Division. We had difficulties when the Central Board of Health was in operation such that you would find at one station a bonafide civil servant with different conditions to that of a health worker locally employed. There were no conditions of service for health workers. Now the Ministry of Health, through the restructuring process, has taken over employment as an agent of the Public Service Management Division. This is why there is now an approved establishment. There is no district, therefore, can employ because these workers have to be put on the pay-roll.

Madam Speaker, one further difficulty was to account for these workers while the other was the utilisation of grants for service delivery being utilised on personnel emoluments. Now this is being streamlined and as we continue, there will be these little hiccups. Our establishment ultimately is 51,000 health workers. Currently, we have only about 36,000 but the recruitment is on going.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Ntundu: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out what the ministry has done to ensure that nurses and other personnel deployed at Choma Central Hospital …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Face the Chair.

May the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Ntundu: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures the Government has put in place considering the fact that Choma Central Hospital is operating on a tobacco farm left by a white farmer and some of the nurses and other staff sleep in tobacco barns.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Now, having sent those personnel to Choma Central hospital, in fact, to Choma Tobacco Barn Hospital, …

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: … what measures have been put in place to ensure that the personnel that have been sent are provided with accommodation instead of them sleeping in tobacco barns?

Dr Chituwo: Madam Speaker, we are very much aware of the fact that the origins of Choma District Hospital are as described by the hon. Member for Gwembe. However, it is a complete fabrication that nurses sleep in tobacco barns. This is not true and the hon. Member of Parliament for Gwembe is very much aware.

Madam Speaker, it is true that we have difficulties in accommodating our health workers like anybody else. There is a provision in the collective agreement. Housing allowance is given to our health workers. Secondly, we have plans to upgrade Choma District Hospital and this has been repeatedly stated in this House. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Choma for having made available land to that effect.

Mr Chazangwe: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: In the meantime, there is no nurse in Choma who sleeps in a tobacco barn.

I thank you, Madam.

___________________{mospagebreak}

MOTION

BUDGET 2008

(Debate resumed)

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Madam Speaker, when the House adjourned yesterday, I had just moved on to the issue of road infrastructure in the country. I was informing the hon. Minister earth moving equipment had been purchased from China and distributed throughout the country to Zambian National Service cantonments, but since that time …

Interruptions

Mr Mwansa: That is a fact. Since that time, this equipment has not been used and instead Zambia National Service has been looking for clients outside Government to hire their equipment to use for infrastructure development, particularly, land.

Madam Speaker, I also want to talk about the road from Samfya District to Lubwi/Kasaba and then to Luwingu. This is a road which the Government has spent more than K2 billion on feasibility studies. The documents have already been completed by Brian Colquhoun Hugh O’ Donell and Partners who are the contractors. This was started in 2000 and completed in 2006, but these documents are now gathering dust in the Ministry of Works and Supply. Why spend so much money on a project which you do not intend to accomplish? I think it would not be fair for the people of Chifunabuli Constituency if the Government does not complete the construction of this road. It is a shortest route from Serenje to Luwingu and Mporokoso and yet it has been left to rot as it were.

Madam Speaker, the Tuta Road from Serenje to the bridge is in good state, but the moment one crosses the Tuta Bridge, you find potholes are all over the road. What happened to the programme of patching? How can they end at Tuta Bridge? Something must be done to complete that stretch from the bridge to Samfya so that people can drive comfortably to Samfya.

Madam Speaker, let me also say something on dependence on foreign budgetary aid. This is very dangerous. Let me ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to reconsider that problem because what is going to happen is that in the end, we will go back to having a debt as big as K7 billion which will be cancelled. We cannot continue borrowing to sustain our budget.

Finally, on the Judiciary, I just want to say that it is unacceptable that the judicial institution can have judges going to work on cases in provinces using one single vehicle. The vehicle carries the judge, interpreter, marshal, driver as well as other personnel. I urge the Government to give our Judiciary ability to do their work in an environment that is conducive.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the budget speech delivered by Hon. Magande this year. I noticed that for a long time now, this has been one of the speeches which has escaped criticism. Of course, I note that some of the normal traditional critics have not yet spoken.

Madam Speaker, I remember one time at the height of criticism how Hon. Magande was depicted as a crocodile by one of the daily newspapers all because they thought that the budget was bad. This budget, therefore, seems to have appealed to many of the stakeholders. Of course, there is a possibility of a cadre that might not be very happy with it. However, generally, it seems like it has gone down very well with many people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, I would like to assure hon. Members that this Government is moving. Achievements are usually made with incremental movements. We are moving and this must encourage many Zambians. I must say that in as much as I take a queue from the hon. Member for Chisamba who asked us not to praise people, I beg his indulgence that I must compliment the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that it looks like he is a villain in this problem, but he is doing a lot of work that is very difficult and can only be done by a few of us.

Madam Speaker, of course, I must praise the President who exercises extreme wisdom of choice when picking his Cabinet. At the Ministry of Works and Supply, therefore, we were very encouraged with the Budget Speech. At Page 14, Paragraph 108, under the heading, ‘Economic Affairs’, the road infrastructure has been allocated K1,110.7 billion. This is a lot of money compared to where we are coming from. I must admit that we can definitely do with a little bit more if it was made available.

Madam Speaker, you might be aware that our normal requirement is about K1.5 trillion per year. However, if you recall in the year 2006, we were only allocated K900 billion out of which only 30 per cent of direct Government contribution was released. This meant that infrastructure like the Mutanda/Chavuma, Kasama/Luwingu and Choma/Chitongo roads suffered tremendously.

Madam Speaker, in 2007, we were allocated K787 billion, out of which 96 per cent of direct Government contribution of K124 billion was released. As a result of this, the Mutanda/Chavuma, Kasama/Luwingu and Choma/ Chitongo roads were all funded and supported by this line.

The Mutanda/Chavuma Road was allocated K20 billion and a stretch of 25 km of tarmac has been worked by the contractor. The Choma/Chitongo Road was allocated K13 billion. The unfortunate thing here is that we had arrears of K4.9 billion. We paid this money, but we had to terminate the contract. The reason was that this contract was signed in 1998 when prices of all materials were very low. Therefore, this contract could not continue. There was no way this contractor was going to buy cement at K60,000 because the price was at K24,000 at the time this contract was signed. There was no way this was going to happen. This contractor was very understanding and he accepted termination at no cost to any party at all. This contract, therefore, will be floated once again this year so that the right prices can be reflected in the contract.

Again, we paid K17.6 billion for the Kasama/Luwingu Road. Unfortunately, only 2.6 km of tarmac has been completed on this road. I must say that this contract was equally terminated for the same reasons, but it was signed in 2001. The prices for most of the materials have tremendously changed and so there is no way the contractor can continue with the prices of 2001 today. This contract will be re-advertised and awarded again.

Madam Speaker, as I said, we have been funded K1.1 trillion in this year’s budget. As the hon. Members have noticed from the Yellow Book, most of the major roads have been funded. However, what most of the hon. Members might have noticed in the Yellow Book is that some roads are not funded. Now, this is as a result of most of the roads being funded by the Road Fund line presented in the Annual Works Plan. If you look at the Yellow Book, at Page 284, under Programme 9 - Routine Maintenance (Road Fund) – (PRP), Activity 19 – Road Maintenance Fund – Fuel Levy Plus other Road Users – K340,400,000,000, this means that most of the roads that you might not see with funding in the Yellow Book are in the Annual Works Plan. They are just put together in the K340 billion that is showing in the Yellow Book.

The Annual Works Plan handout was distributed in December last year. In case some hon. Members of Parliament missed, it will be distributed again today or on Monday because this is the same Annual Works Plan that we expect hon. Members to discuss. This Annual Works Plan will be worth K340 billion.

Madam Speaker, I would like to state that this year will be slightly different from other years. We are going to take on the contractors and consultants who will fail to perform.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: In this respect, I want to assure hon. Members that there will be no stone left unturned. I know that this will be a big fight, especially when at times some hon. Members want to side with some contractors who they very well know have failed to perform.

Mr D. Mwila: Balalyamo.

Mr Simbao: Therefore, I would like to assure our hon. Members that this Government is not out to punish a person who is performing well. We have the interest of the Zambian people at heart. What we want to see is what the people will accept and not what Simbao accepts. The problem is that when I visit these projects, I am confronted with these people even when they can see that the road is bad. There is no other way we can assure them that this road is good. They can see. They have eyes. Most of the hon. Members are complaining here because they have seen the potholes. They have seen the poor works. That is why they are complaining here. It is not me. If these contractors want me to protect them, they must do works that the people accept. Then, I will protect them. It is unfortunate if other hon. Members of Parliament decide to protect these people.

Interruptions

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, my ministry is happy because this budget tells us that we will be very busy. I have had a chat with Hon. Magande. He has assured me that he does not want money to be an issue this year. He wants us to work. He has told me that he is not going to accept late starting of any project. He has turned over the ball to us. I want to assure our hon. Members that in the same spirit, we have told the Roads Development Agency (RDA) to start procurement of works now so that at the time the budget is approved and like Hon. Magande begged us, if we can only approve this budget by the end of this month, a lot of work can be accomplished.

Madam Speaker, last year some money was returned to the treasury. This was unfortunate.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, at the Ministry of Works and supply, this was a new problem. What we have found out is that some contractors failed to use the money allocated to them. They failed to give enough certificates so that they could be paid. This money was, therefore, returned back in the account. This has become a very strange problem to us and it is for this reason that we are cautious this year. I do not know whether or not we have to implement our discussed one project per year resolution. We found that this might bring us into trouble. We have discussed with all our contractors and consultants about this problem of underutilisation of allocated funds which is taking us backwards. They have promised us that they are going to pick up and make sure that they make a difference starting this year. If that happens, then we might attempt to give a lot of money to one contractor and see that they finish the road.

Madam Speaker, I would like now to answer to some concerns that were raised by a few hon. Members. I would like to start with the hon. Member for Kawambwa who lamented about the Kawambwa/Mung’anga Road. It is true that this is a very important road.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: It is one of the roads that leads from Kawambwa to Mansa. It is said to be a short cut. I have assured the hon. Member and I did show her a line in the budget that we have allocated funds for this road this year. Because of the assurances I have gotten from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, I can equally assure her that we will start working on this road this year.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: I also want to talk about Hon. Kambwili who lamented about the road between Chisangano and Luanshya. I want to assure him that we have noticed the problems on this road. Unfortunately, this road requires complete reconstruction. However, what was prescribed was just patching up the potholes and an overall of 50 mm of asphalt. Well, it looks like this was a wrong prescription. We need to get back to it and reconstruct most of the very bad sections. I take note of what Hon. Kambwili said. However, I want to challenge him that he must also consider tarring the Kafubu Road. It is only 10 km. The money for such works is there in the budget. He can access about K10 billion from the Ministry of Local Government and Housing where this money will belong and he can tar that road. I think it can help a lot of people coming from Luanshya to Lusaka as they would avoid going through that long route.

In the same vein, I would like to advise other hon. Members of Parliament that there is money allocated to the urban roads. Please, take time to find out where you can apply this money. It is a lot of money. Go to the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and see how much you can get. If you do not do that, it will go to other roads in other districts and do not complain. This is the time to see which road should be tarred. You can access this money from the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

Madam, I would like to respond to the issue raised by the hon. Member for Mfuwe. He lamented that the roads were last done in 1986. I must say that is very bad, but he now has an opportunity because money for rural roads will be found at the local councils and not at the Ministry of Works and Supply. Please, go back to your local councils and sit down with your fellow councillors and ensure that, if it is very important, prevail upon them that the roads you want are done because that is where this money will be sent from now onwards.

Madam, I would also like to appeal to the hon. Member for Mpulungu who talked about the Kanyala/Nakonde Road. We are carrying out a feasibility study to be presented to the OFIT countries in October, 2009 who have offered to fund this road. Therefore, if this road is going to be tarred, it will start in 2010 and not 2008, as we would all have loved to see.

The hon. Member for Kantolomba …

Laughter

Mr Simbao: … Katombola …

Laughter

Mr Simbao: … Hon Musokotwane, found time to lament on behalf of Northern Province and I say thanks a lot. We will take it from there. I definitely bemoan the condition of many roads in Northern Province. The Kasama/Mbala/Luwingu Road is bad. However, I would like to say that we will start to work on this road this year. We will work on it slowly because we have insufficient funds, but the money that we have is enough for us to start working on this road in a proper manner. You will understand that road was constructed in 1973 and from that time to date, there has never been enough funds allocated to fully rehabilitate that important road. However, we have started working on it.

We have also started looking at the Isoka/Kasama Road. As you know, this is another very important road. It is going to be part of another corridor from Copperbelt to Tanzania. It connects to Kasama, Luwingu, Mansa and Copperbelt. Therefore, it is one section of the road that we must deal with for us to be very proud.

Madame Speaker, the road from Kasama to Kapatu, in particular, is very bad. We will soon carryout some interventions, but we need to tar the road from Kasama to Mporokoso. As we all know, Mporokoso has some of the best falls in the world. Therefore, we seriously need to look at this road.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Musokotwane that she is very sympathetic to the situation in Northern Province. In so doing, I want to assure her that the road between Zimba and Livingstone …

Madam Speaker: Order

Business was suspended from 1045 until 1100 hours.

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, when business was suspended, I was talking about the hon. Member for Katombola being sympathetic to the situation in Northern Province.

 Madam, I would like to say that this year’s budget has given work to our ministry. The four important roads in the Eastern Province have been allocated money. We are also looking for money to tar the Great East Road, in particular, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: … to the required standard in 2010, but we will make it passable for now…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simbao: … comparable to the state which is there between Katete and Mutenguleni. Really, for anyone travelling there, they will not see much difference.

In fact, all the roads that I have not talked about will be discussed on Monday, 11th February, 2008 with the Roads Development Agency. Hon. Members have been invited.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina (Kanchibiya): Madam Speaker, to begin with, I will appear to be a bit poetic in talking about what type of leaders we have in this country and the world over. We have credible and incredible leaders.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam, we also have honourable leaders and horrible leaders,…

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: … acceptable leaders and unacceptable leaders, tolerable leaders and intolerable leaders and all these depend on where you want to belong. The onus is yours. The people of Zambia are there to judge you in whatever you do. Therefore, the list of types of leaders is endless.

Madam Speaker, I would now like to contribute to the fabulous speech of our most gallant hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Mr Ng’andu Magande.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, I deliberately posed this year with him whilst touching the golden box.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam, I cry for the share on behalf of the Kanchibiya people. That pose was not for nothing, but for a purpose.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, since the theme for this year’s budget is, “Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation”, kindly unlock also a bit of money for the Kanchibiya people out there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Why do I say so? One of the reasons why I say so is just to look at the money that has been allocated to the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives. I do not want to sound very sarcastic because I hold a very high esteem for your office. Please, kindly think of other alternatives so that you give enough money to the agriculture sector.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about a good sustainable way of farming. We can plant marajeuia and other plants which add nitrogen to the soil because we have failed the Zambians on conversion of fertiliser. We cannot run away from this fact.

Madam, when we talk of co-operate taxes, we want to see this money trickle down to the rural areas and not only to the urban set up. We are tired of this. You should bring money to the villagers. I touched that golden box because I want a share to be given to the people of Kanchibiya.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, it seems it is a cultural norm in this House to praise the Government for whatever failures they have done. For once, brothers and sisters, listen to what I am going to say.

Madam, the Ministry of Education is the most disappointing. Although the hon. Minister himself is a Professor, but he is full of pomposity.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam, you can tell him…

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! That is directed to the hon. Minister, can you withdraw the word, “pomposity.”

May the hon. Member for Kanchibiya, please, continue.

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the word ‘pomposity’ and replace it with the word, ‘arrogance’.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, I am going to talk about Northern Province. This is the biggest province we have in the country. How many high schools has the ministry given to Kaputa? There is nothing. I feel for you, Madam Speaker, because we cannot speak on your behalf.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker:  Order! Hon. Members, do not draw the Chair into your debate. Talk about Kaputa and not the Chair.

May the hon. Member for Kanchibiya, please, continue.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, sometimes we want to speak on behalf of the Chair because things have gone beyond the limit.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the way the education system is working in this country despite having a professor heading the ministry. I will not spare you this time.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: The professor is failing the people of Kanchibiya Constituency. Give Kanchibiya Constituency at least one high school unlike the situation where we see Chibombo District being given four high schools and none for Kanchibiya Constituency and it has many people. You are only interested to come and poach the black lechwes and take the wealth to the cities. The hon. Minister should at least construct one high school and if not, upgrade the infrastructure of Kopa High School. When I talk of allocations, you say it is not gazetted. Please, kindly gazette the school and give us the money. Do not just come for our animals in that province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Mr Speaker, look at Chief Nabwalya. When people lament about education, someone comes with a list in the House. We are not impressing anybody in this House. You should impress electorates out there. Those people are our bosses who have sent us here. When we come here to lobby for the resources for capital projects, we are asked whether or note we have attended the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) meeting. What animal is NCC?

Laughter
Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam, NCC was just born yesterday. We want development in Kanchibiya Constituency. Do not punish Hon. Kanyanyamina. We should work for the people out there because they have the right to be called Zambians because they vote every 5 years. Therefore, why do you want to deny them their rights? Is it because Kanyanyamina is an hon. Opposition Member of Parliament? This is waste of time.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: When you give four schools to Chibombo, if you are a passionate leader, you should give at least one to Kachibiya Constituency so that it makes a ratio of one to four. Up to this time, we still see development happening in other areas and nothing for Kanchibiya has happened. The people of Kanchibiya are still waiting. What wrong have we done to you, countrymen?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, I now want to talk about the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources. We have a lot of riches like wildlife in Northern Province. We have black lechwes, statungas and shoebills. I have to consult the encyclopaedia for me to give you the proper names of some of the animals.

Madam, Chiwundaponde is a mother land with the best land where you can find the black lechwes in the whole world. There is another special species of a bird called shoebill. The other place you can find it is in the Okavango National Park in Namibia.

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kanyanyamina: You are famous for raising points of order. Let me talk about issues Zambian development because that is what people are interested in.

Laughter
Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources can do a lot in promoting tourism. The people of Chiwundaponde and the entire Northern Province want to benefit from the resources that are being generated from the wildlife in that place. Now, when you talk about these issues, they say that there is no money coming from the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources. They only talk about Community Resource Boards (CRBs) and yet they do not even know what they do at the grassroots level. Maybe he is part of the family tree.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam, I have CRBs in my constituency, but they are failing to deliver. I do not know why only a few people are enjoying the national cake. The aged, pregnant women and the sick are not seeing any benefits. We even wonder why these people vote for us. We should forget about the CRBs because they are immaterial. This only came for people who went to school like me.

Mr Muteteka: Which school are you talking about? You were brought up by the Catholics.

Mr Kanyanyamina: People in the villages do not even know the meaning of CRB. It is only a few people who benefit from the national cake. The idea of having CRBs is very good, but I think we need to follow up and study more about CRBs. The money that you pump into this does not reach the intended beneficiaries. I promise to give you free consultancy on this issue.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, when I see a young and vibrant hon. Minister with full of vigour to lead this country in sport cling to the overworked District Commissioners and tells them that he will continue sending them money,…

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: … I tend to wonder what type of a young man we have in this country as a hon. Minister. I will still attack him for this because we want to see sport moving ahead. That is why he has a flag and has to shield himself. If he wants, he can raise a point of order. I will still be very hard on him. I wish the hon. Deputy Minister could have been the Minister. May be she could have done wonders to this country because we hear of this slogan that when you educate a woman, you education the nation…

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: … we have been disappointed by our own brother. Hon. Ministers should not to be arrogant, but to respect the hon. Members because they are the choices of the people. In fact, I do not understand why Government has continued dealing with District Commissioners. If we say that there is a problem with the District Commissioner, it is true there is a problem. We are hon. Members. Honourable means someone who is respected. It will never be horrible.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: All I am saying is that we must learn to receive advice. It was only 2 weeks ago when Hon. Sikota was trying to educate some people who are fond of uttering careless words like “we mean well”. How can you say that you mean you mean well

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: … when people out there are drowning in floods, especially our brothers in Southern Province, who do not know how to swim? There is a pathetic story there…

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: … and someone should come here and say that they mean well. What do you mean well?

Interruptions

Mr Kanyanyamina: This is not a joke. Our brothers and sisters in Southern Province do not know how to swim. They are not like me. Please, kindly assist them. Give them some food. The animals you gave them have drowned. What else do you want to hear?

Madam Speaker, yesterday, there was a story on Muvi TV about a cow having given birth to a calf that is half human. Where are we heading to now?

 Laughter

Hon. PF Member: Really?

Mr Kanyanyamina: Yes, there was a article on the news yesterday. This is a sign that the Government has to wake up. The key you have, Hon. Magande, should be used to unlock and open widely now so that resources flow.

Madam Speaker, let me now come to my brother, the only one I come with from Northern Province, Hon. Kapembwa Simbao Yamukombe. Improvements should be made on the Kasama/Kaputa and Kasama/Mpulungu roads. 

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: The hon. Provincial Minister has lamented several times. Why not compliment your friend’s effort? Do you want him be fired by Mr Mwanawasa so that you joke about it?

Laughter

 Mr Kanyanyamina: He is a son of the land just like you are. We want you to perform. After all, you pass through Mpika to go to Senga Hill. You are our brother. There are potholes between Serenje and Chilonga. Do you want to die there before your time?  No one is interested to see blood shed.
Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Of course, I have seen a bit of light, but since I am a doubting Thomas, I will only believe when I see development taking place because educated people are difficult.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Today, you can say this and say something else the next day. The people in rural areas only want to their share from the national cake.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam, time for experiments is long gone. I urge the Government to fulfill the wishes of the people. I know the hon. Minister of 
Works and Supply is a man of God and I hope what he has promised us will be fulfilled. We will not blame Hon. Magande, but you. Save Hon. Lameck Chibombamilimo because he will be fired by Mr Mwanawasa.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: You are all from Northern Province. Leave an impact there with your RDA. Of course, RDA is working in town, but not in rural areas, especially Chiwundaponde. They do not know it. If you ask the people there, they will tell you that they do not even know what RDA means. As long as there no money coming to Chiwundaponde for works on the roads, forget bwana. Even that flag you carry is useless.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: I am sorry. This is because any meaningful thing must bear fruits. Anything without fruits means nothing. If you are not there for the poor people, then you are horrible and not honourable.
Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: If you are not there to serve the poor people …

Mr Daka: On appoint of order, Madam.

Hon. PF Member: You are disturbing.

The Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Daka: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member who is debating in order to use unparliamentary words, “horrible and useless,” several times in this House? I need your serious ruling, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training is concerned that the hon. Member debating is using strong words that are not parliamentary like horrible and useless. Let the hon. Member debating moderate his language and use acceptable language in the House.

May he, please, continue.

Mr Kanyanyamina: When you see empty people are not getting mild language, perhaps it is better to use a stronger language and may be they can get …

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Members, when there is guidance from the Chair, you do not stand to make justification. This is unprocedural and unacceptable. When you are guided, you do not to argue with the Chair.

May he, please, continue.

Mr Kanyanyamina: Mr Speaker, thank you for your guidance. I am always very objective in my debates. I cry for the poor people. Let the poor people also see the benefits of this year’s budget or else, useless means useless. It is the opposite of useful. I am sorry if I offended some hon. Ministers, but they must go back to school.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kanyanyamina: They must go back to school and learn their language.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kanyanyamina: That is why they do not listen.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kanyanyamina: We want service delivery.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! I have said that you will not go to where a ruling or guidance has been given. Useless refers to a situation may be acceptable, but not referred to people. Debate within the guidance.

May he, please, continue.

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your fruitful guidance.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam, I will not be hard on this Government if they work on the road to Kanchibiya or else I will hire a truck the next time I come here to go to State House because it seems that is the only language that they understand in order to give a bit of wealth, like the hon. Minister of Education.

Hon. Government Member: You will be arrested.

Mr Kanyanyamina: I am ready to die for my people. I have always told you …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The hon. Member is here to debate issues. Nobody is here to offer themselves to die. You debate issues.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The people voted for you alive and you will remain alive to debate on their behalf.

May he, please, continue.

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, to cement my points of this debate, I am not pleased to see the retirees who gave their services to companies like the United Bus Company of Zambia, Zambia Railways, Kapiri Glass Factory, Mansa Batteries and Tanzania-Zambia Railways still asking for their tokens of appreciation as promised a long time ago by politicians, but still Pyanangu apya namabala. These people are still waiting their money.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! What does that mean?

May he, please, continue.

Mr Kanyanyamina: Pyanangu apya namabala means if you take over a shirt, you also take over also the problems of the person who used to wear that shirt.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Kanyanyamina: Therefore, what this implies is that this Government will never run away from the problems that it has inherited. For us, we know that there will only be one government at a time and it would be only that government which would sort out poor people’s problems and not programmes. It will give direction to the Zambian youths who are languishing in the streets with no jobs. We are tired of seeing our sisters being raped in the streets. They want sanity and respect as well. However, because of the abject poverty or the deliberately driven poverty, they end up undressing in the streets. It is not their fault. Please, have passion. Give them a bit of money. They also deserve human dignity. They were born in the name of Jesus Christ. After all, they wake up at 0400 hours in the morning to vote for us. I urge Government to see to it that they repair roads. Let money trickle down to the rural communities. If this is done, then we will say yes, you have unlocked the resources.

Madam Speaker, there is a tendency in this House where hon. Members always praise Mr Mwanawasa. He is a good man, but let him rest. It is up to you, as hon. Ministers, to put into practice what he has asked you to do.

Madam Speaker, I have spoken about this now and again that you should advise people like our young hon. Minister of Youth, Sport and Child Development not to be issuing threats to people that I will fire you, I will withdraw money from FAZ and I will do this and that to FAZ. People have even stopped listening to the news because they are scared of these threats.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, we want sport to go ahead because a sports nation is always health nation. Sports make people health. Therefore, there should be no more threats. Do not run the ministry like a kitchen. A kitchen is different from politics. If you are not in the mood to accommodate free advice from other leaders, the best you can do is to kindly and politely step down and leave that flag for others. After all, you are not the first Minister to occupy that office.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: I also want to occupy that office when we form the next government.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, by the way, on behalf of the people Eastern Province, I ask this Government to repair roads in Eastern Province because our mbuyas cannot talk.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: Madam Speaker, in this year’s budget, I have not seen Matumbo Bridget on the list. They have even removed it from the budget. What wrong have the easterners done to you people here?
 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear1

Mr Kanyanyamina: There are no people who can talk on their behalf because most of them are hon. Ministers and are quiet.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina:  Therefore, it is my duty to speak on their behalf. The road from Luangwa Valley is a death trap.

Hon. Opposition Members: Kaputa Road.

Mr Kanyanyamina: Kaputa Road is in a bad state too. We want to enjoy the Nalumango Falls and bring more schools.

We appreciate what the hon. Minister of Education is doing in as far as sharing of the wealth is concerned. You have built four schools in Chibombo and nothing in Kanchibiya.

 Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Oh! Which world?

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: You really have to be passion when distributing these resources because we are all Zambians and we want a share from the national cake. Hon. Magande has given it freely.

Madam Speaker, by the way, I touched that golden box this year because I want a share for Kanchibiya. 
Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: I also want a high school to be constructed in my constituency. I do know how this will be done, but all I am interested in is development. The Ministry should repair the infrastructure. We are tired of seeing our teachers sleeping in the classrooms. I do not want to temper with the hon. Ministry of Health because he is struggling.

Laughter

Mr Kanyanyamina: Hon. Masebo is one of the hardest working hon. Ministers in my constituency…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kanyanyamina: … because the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) has helped me a lot to sort out people’s problems.

Bravo Masebo! Long life to you!

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda (Chililabombwe): Madam Speaker, I just want to add my voice to the many voices which have spoken before me.

 Madam Speaker, let me just mention something about the budget. The budget sounds good, but it is in inverted comas. I say so because budgets are not taken seriously. Budgets, in most cases, remain on paper and they are not implemented properly. What we need to see this year is an efficient and effective implementation of the budget.
 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

 Mrs Banda: Madam Speaker, good implementation of the budget will not see a single ngwee return to the treasury without being used.

Madam Speaker, when I look at last year’s budget, I deeply mourn for the people of Chililabombwe. In last year’s budget, K900 billion was taken back to the treasury without being used when we could have used in my constituency including other constituencies. When you see a situation where money is being taken back, just know that we are keeping non-performers in the Government.

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: Keeping such type of people will cause a lot of damage to our country. I, therefore, appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to see to it that there are checks and balances this year so that people who are not performing are pushed out.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about medical. This has been a concern for the people of Chililabombwe. We have been denied of a district hospital since 1964. When people are talking about Chililabombwe having a hospital, they only think about the mine hospital. How many people can afford to go to a mine hospital? If you do not know, you must have a down payment of about K500,000 to visit a mine hospital.  Now, how many people do you think can afford that kind of money?

Madam Speaker, emergencies are attended to by the Nchanga North Hospital which is 25 km away from Chililabombwe. If you think that 25 km is a very short distance, then I am disappointed with you. This is because when you are talking of an emergency, it is a critical case which should be handled within the shortest possible time.

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mrs Banda: At the same time, Chililabombwe has no reliable ambulance. Therefore, without having a reliable ambulance and a place where you take emergencies is 25 km, it becomes a disaster for human life. Chililabombwe can be rewarded in form of a hospital because this town has done a lot towards the economy of this country.

Madam we have miners who have done a lot towards the development of our country. They have retired from the mines, but they can have access to the mine hospital. The only place they can give visit is a Government hospital which is very far from Chililabombwe. Surely, are you being fair to these miners?

Madam Speaker, let me just mention here that Chililabombwe has a population of 93,000 people. Out of this number, only 20,000 have access to the mine hospital. The rest have no access to the mine hospital. Please, do not take this issue lightly and do not even say that 25 km is a very short distance because it is not.

Madam Speaker, let me now talk about the traditional birth attendants, I heard from other hon. Members who spoke before me about these managing the deliveries in rural areas. Surely, when there is an emergency, can a traditional birth attendant handle a serious case? Do you know what it costs when someone is delivering? It is a matter of life and death. As a woman, I am very disappointed because we need proper services. Should we boycott as women to stop having children so that you put up proper services for us?

Hon. Members: It takes two.

Mrs Banda: It can take two, but I can make sure that nothing …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Speak through the Chair. Do not start responding to hecklers.

May the hon. Member, please, continue.

Mrs Banda: Madam Speaker, if you consider deliveries to be very important, then know that a woman should be handled with care and be given proper services.

Laughter

Mrs Banda: A woman should not be at risk during delivery. They should be sure that what they are going to pass through will be a normal delivery.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Banda: I am not talking about services which you are thinking.

Laughter

Mrs Banda: Madam Speaker, allow me to talk about education. Education is important to development. Has the hon. Minister of Education given the best to our children? For example, the hon. Minister has not done much for Chililabombwe. If you came to Chililabombwe, you will find that some of the children just sit on the floor. They come from homes were there is everything, but find nothing in schools.

Chililabombwe, in particular, has schools with few desks. You will find a class with only three desks and the rest of the children just sit on the floor.

Hon. PF Members: Shame!

Mrs Banda: These schools are Twafwane, Mubengele, Kamenza, Fitobaula, Kawama, Chimfumshi and Konkola. When you go to these schools, you will be very disappointed to see that they are within the urban. When we talk about quality education, desks are supposed to be there. However, you find that a child is sitting on the floor when he is coming from a home where there is everything. Is this child going to concentrate when a teacher is teaching? No. Are we expecting the best from this child? No. Therefore, the issue of desks should also be taken seriously. We have been talking about having teachers and text books in schools, but there should also be an addition of desks because this is very important.

Last time, I asked a question about desks and we were told that there were some desks that were sent to the province. However, we have not seen those desks up till now. Are they still on the way?

Mr D. Mwila: Elyo yafika pa Kafulafuta!

Laughter

Mrs Banda: They are at Kafulafuta!

Madam Speaker, lastly allow me to talk about security and I will address the Minister of Home Affairs. Chililabombwe is a border town. Residents there are at risk most of the time. They do not even know whether they are going to wake up the following day and see light because there are too many criminals from the Democratic Republic of Congo.

I have been appealing to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs for some time to beef up the police there so that they go round and see what is going on, especially in the peri-urban. People have moved away from the peri-urban. They have run away for their lives from their farms. Their livestock have been taken away. In fact, even people going to the farms from the urban areas have had their cars grabbed away from them. We have not seen any improvement on security at all. I was promised here by the hon. Minister that as I go back to my constituency, I should go and inform the residents there that crime will be a thing of the past because a lot of security staff will be put in to ensure that they do their work. Up till now, nothing has been done. As for farmers, they have to think twice and ask whether they are going to go back or not. I plead with the hon. Minister to consider and do something so that the people in Chililabombwe can stop living in fear.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr F. R. Tembo (Nyimba): Madam Speaker, thank you for giving me this rare opportunity to contribute to the motion of supply on the Floor.

Madam Speaker, allow me to thank His Excellency the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for delivering to the nation a moving and inspiring speech during the official opening of Parliament. At the same time, allow me also to thank the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for a well articulated budget speech that will see the nation move a step ahead if at all it will be implemented well.

In the speech, it is indicated that there was growth in terms of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) to our economy from 5 to 6.2 per cent in 2007. The GDP growth of our country should be extended to the rural areas by focussing on important infrastructures, such as, roads, bridges, schools, health centres and also the completion of infrastructure on time.

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

Mr F. R. Tembo: Madam Speaker, I come from a rural constituency in Eastern Province, which is Nyimba Constituency, where I represent a few people who are well to do and a majority total population of about 89 per cent, who are poor and depend on farming. Despite the majority of people being poor, they appreciate the development in infrastructure taking place in the constituency.

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

Mr F. R. Tembo: Some of the achievements are completion of a theatre and mortuary at Nyimba District Hospital.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr F. R. Tembo: A livestock centre is still under construction at a cost of K1.9 billion and will benefit the farmers to have a fair deal in terms of pricing of animals at a commercial rate. Machika Basic School is also under construction by a Chinese company. The completion of a library at Nyimba High School is another development. The continuous rehabilitation of Nyimba High School is another development. The construction of Uzu Dam at a cost of K1.5 billion has already been done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr F. R. Tembo: The Government has also funded Nyimba District to rehabilitate township roads. A youth training centre is under construction which is another big investment. The feasibility studies have already been done for the construction of Mambwe High School at a cost of K12 billion.

Madam Speaker, as I speak, I would say that I am a proud Member of Parliament whereby I am able to walk in my constituency with my head held upright.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr F. R. Tembo: Despite having achieved the infrastructure developments, the percentage of poverty stricken people is too high in my constituency.

Interruptions

Mr F. R. Tembo: On the agriculture sector, I wish to state that most of the people depend on agriculture. The Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) is a well intended programme which can uplift the living standards of the people in Nyimba Constituency. However, the programme has not benefited the targeted people due to poor implementation by the District Agricultural Co-ordinating Officers (DACOs).

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Those are officials!

Mr F. R. Tembo: Madam Speaker, the Fertiliser Support Programme has not benefited the small-scale farmers at all. The same people have been benefiting from this programme throughout the years and this has contributed to the high poverty levels in my constituency. Late payments to farmers by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) also contribute to the high poverty levels in my constituency.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Tembo: Up till now, FRA is still owing farmers in Nyimba Constituency about K1 billion.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr F. R. Tembo: Madam Speaker, in 2007 Budget, 8.8 per cent of the total expenditure budget was allocated to agriculture with a view to increase irrigation, Fertiliser Support Programme and livestock disease control. This year, the allocation has dropped to 5.8 per cent and yet the Government expects to improve cash crop production, livestock and fisheries development. Therefore, the current floods the country is experiencing and poor implementation of Fertiliser Support Programme by the District Agricultural Co-ordinating Officers (DACOs) in the districts may negatively affect this industry.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about mining. Mining in Zambia still stands as one of the key pillars of the economic development. As a result of good economic policies taken by the MMD New Deal Government, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr F. R. Tembo: … there have been tangible developments in the sector, including opening of the new mines.

Mrs Musokotwane: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Member who is debating in order to contradict himself?  This minute, he is saying there is hunger in his constituency and the FRA has not paid his people K1 billion and the next minute, he is talking about good policies. Is he in order to confuse us like that, which is which? Are your farmers paid or not?

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member for Katombola has raised a point of order on the speech of the hon. Member for Nyimba that he is contradicting himself. The Chair would like to, once again, guide on this matter. All hon. Members of the Back Bench can debate and discuss and in their discussion, they are free to give the good and the bad…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker:  and really the Chair has guided that for the Back Bench, they do not look at contradiction because they have no policy guiding them. They are able to look at the good and the bad things. Therefore, the hon. Member debating is in order.

May he, please, continue.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr F. R. Tembo: Thank you, Madam Speaker, for supporting me.

Hon. Government Member: 10-0.

Mr F. R. Tembo: It is not all the bad policies of MMD which have been wrongly implemented. No. Let me say that the Government has done well in the mining sector.

Hon. Government Member: Ba wuze.

Mr F. R. Tembo: MMD has achieved a lot as a result of the good economic policies taken by the MMD New Deal Government. There have been tangible developments in the sector, including the opening of new mines in the North-Western and Southern provinces.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr F. R. Tembo: Madam Speaker, the windfall tax announced by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has not been reflected in the Estimates and Revenue Expenditure. The K415 million which will be realised from the mines needs to be explained how it is going to be distributed. Otherwise, the new policies will not being implemented this year. I urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning when winding up debate to come and fully explain how the new policies will be implemented and how the expenditure itself will be done.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about co-operate tax. The interest rates are too high in the financial institutions more especially the banks. People are not borrowing money because of the interest rates are very high. Why can the Government not reduce the co-operate tax from 40 per cent to 35 per cent or 30 per cent? If this is done, the banks also will reduce the interest rates? This will also encourage manufacturers to borrow money from the banks and in turn increase production and create employment for our local people.

Mr Lubinda: Go my brother.

Mr F. R. Tembo: Madam Speaker, GDP will go up and we will enable the country to attain the Millennium Development Goals and in turn make the 2030 document meaningful.

The Government should also speed up the tender procedures to avoid money going back to the treasury.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Madam Speaker, allow me to thank the Government for the tireless effort in ensuring that the councils throughout the country provide the necessary services to our people. I want to acknowledge that Nyimba Constituency received an amount of K200 million as Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I can rest assure the House that the money has been well spent on projects.  Out of this same money, construction of a clinic at Chief Ndake’s Palace has commenced.

Hon. Government Member: We will give you more support.

Mr F. R. Tembo: Madam Speaker, I would like to confirm and acknowledge that 3 weeks ago, Nyimba District Council received an amount of K30 million from the Ministry of Local Government and Housing. This money is intended to rehabilitate markets within the district.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr F. R. Tembo: Madam Speaker, what more do I need apart from these developments …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Tembo: … which we have been given more especially in Nyimba Constituency?

Madam Speaker, allow me to comment on the road network in my constituency which is not good.

Interruptions

Mr F. R. Tembo: Madam Speaker, also allow me to comment on the Great East Road. I do appreciate the sentiments made by the hon. Minister of Works and Supply. I am happy that the Great East Road will be funded. However, the stretch from Nyimba to Sinda is in a bad state. I do not think you can come back if you took a drive from Lusaka to Chipata.

Interruptions

Mr F. R. Tembo: Therefore, I appeal to the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to allocate more funds to the Great East Road. The K15 billion which has been allocated for the maintenance of the stretch from Nyimba to Sinda is not enough. This is the reason why engineers are also not ready to take up the job. I am reliably informed that the engineers have already taken up the job of the stretch from Kazimule to Mwami Border because the road has been funded with more money. If you compare the state of the road from Nyimba to Sinda and from Kazimule to Mwami Border, you will find that Nyimba is worse …

Mr Chimbaka: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Chimbaka: Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member on the Floor who is debating in order to complain about the road being very bad when one of the Ngoni people told me this morning that they have no problems because hyenas have not complained? Is he in order to raise such?

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The point of order raised by the hon. Member for Bahati is a complicated point of order for the Chair …

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: … and therefore, there is no ruling.

May the hon. Member, please, continue.

Mr F. R. Tembo: Madam Speaker, I know that the hon. Member has already forwarded his application for land in Nyimba, but I can rest assure him that I am still considering his application.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, I urge the Government to ensure that there is speedy implementation of projects this year. Funds should be released in good time. We do not want money to be taken back to the treasury again.

I thank you, Madam.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Sichilima): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this very important motion.

Madam, from the onset, I want to declare interest that it is just in order for senior hon. Deputy Ministers, like me, …

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: … to speak when most of my colleagues from the Bank Bench have spoken so that we guide them on a number of issues that they seem not to understand as they debate.

Madam Speaker, the speech that His Excellency the President delivered in this House has been received very well by the people and it has balanced with the Budget Speech delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I will not use terminologies that might be strange to most of my colleagues because big words would sometimes end up misleading some of my new colleagues, especially the hon. Member for Nchanga who has just come in even though he is an engineer.

Madam Speaker, when we come in this House, we should look at issues broadly. We have heard people lamenting about projects in our districts, constituencies and the country as a whole, forgetting that most of these projects are actually prioritised by our constituencies and planned from districts. However, we want to take advantage of coming here and be seen to be the most outspoken without realising that the projects that we are referring to are sometimes not even included in the priorities of the districts where we are coming from. I especially want to urge my brother, Hon. Kanyanyamina, and I hope he is in the House, that he could have actually spoken some issues in the district, constituency up to the provincial level before bringing them here.

Mr Kanyanyamina: Tawisako!

Mr Sichilima: I want to teach him so that he realises that we are not here just for points of order. We mean well, my brother.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, this brings in the notion of “One Zambia one nation” which all of us know and are very familiar with and is the more reason why we are even here. I will not go into details, but I want to say that as Sichilima from Mbala, I am very free to go and live at any time in Namwala.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: I do not need to ask anybody not only because of my name as they can mispronounce it as “Hachilima” or “Chilima” …

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: … but just a “Sichilima”.  I can even be a chief …

Laughter

Mr Sichilima … and the same thing can apply when I go to Zambezi. This is also just like in Mbala where we have headmen called “Hamudenda” and others are “Banda” and that is what is meant by “One Zambia, one nation”.

Madam Speaker, I want to expand a little further by saying that even when it comes to projects, if this Government on your right comes up with a project, it does not only mean well for the people in that area, but the whole nation. If, for arguments sake, we say that we are going to start a cement project in Lundazi, Zambians must be happy that the project is going to take place in that area because it is not just going to benefit the people in Lundazi, but Zambia as a whole.

Mr Muchima: Yes.

Mr Sichilima: Government will generate revenue and in return will provide services, such as, health, schools, roads and other projects that are needed in other areas.

I want to comment on some of the things that were mentioned by my brother whom we sent as we were coming from the east. We provided leadership by telling them that they go and get wealth and that is why there are even no animals in Namwala where they have settled. A project, such as, the Itezhi-tezhi Dam, at the time that it was being constructed was a reservoir as my hon. Minister elaborated. However, we are now talking of generating power in Namwala once the project is completed. Therefore, when he says that come and take away the dam, I wish I had a way of taking the dam away from there to Mbala. Currently, we are only generating 1,100 mega watts. Today, I might not be specific because factories are expanding almost every day because of the good policies of this Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: We might need about 2,800 to 3,000 mega watts, but it will be more tomorrow.

However, I must say that with the projects that are going on or upgrading Kariba Dam, Kafue Gorge and other main hydro power stations will not reach 9,100 mega watts.

Madam Speaker, the energy sector has not done well, but there is a lot of activity due to the good enabling environment, hence the demand for power. Therefore, there is need to invest in this area. If we improve Kafue Lower, Itezhi-tezhi, Kalungwishi and other hydro-power stations in North Western Province, we will definitely be reaching 3,000 to 4,000 mega watts. However, even at the rate we are going and as long as we remain in power even after 2011, this power will not still be enough.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, there is need to put our heads together in order for this Government to succeed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, I know that some people dream of coming into power after 2011 and others have told us that ninety days will be enough for them to change things.

The hon. Member of Parliament for Chililabombwe, unfortunately, is not here talked about a district hospital. I want to remind hon. Members, especially Hon. Syakalima that this Government has plans for developmental projects. The only problem is that we forget so easily as Zambians. Let us look at where we come from. Some of these infrastructures were not even worth talking of, but this Government embarked on a process of rehabilitation of hospitals and schools in all districts.

Madam Speaker, let me say Mbala General Hospital is one of the best hospitals in this country.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: We never had ambulances, but they are now there. This is how the MMD Government works.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: That is why we are going to come back even in 2011.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, on the question of roads, in as much as we appreciate my sweetheart’s desire without declaring interest, she really talked highly about the Mpulungu/Mbala/Nakonde Road.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! No sweethearts in this House. There are only hon. Members.

May he, please, continue.

Mr Sichilima: I am most obliged, Madam Speaker.

The hon. Member for Katombola talked very highly about the Mpulungu/Mbala/Nakonde Road to Kanyala. This is why I talked about rehabilitation. The Government could have not embarked on new projects and ignore the old existing projects, which includes the Lusaka/ Livingstone Road.

Mrs Musokotwane: Up to Zimba.

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, I am a proud Minister to say that money has been provided for the Bottom Road. We should be happy as Zambians that the road this time around will be done.

Madam Speaker …

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development who is also a Member of Parliament for Mbala where we originated from on our way from up there in order to suggest that the Great North Road has now assumed the title, Southern Province Road? I beg your guidance, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development may put that into consideration as he describes the roads in Zambia.

May he, please, continue.

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, it is very nice to hear indigenous people supporting projects. That is why I said big words sometimes mislead others. I have tried to simplify as much as possible.

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: The Great North Road, in my little understanding, starts from Livingstone to Nakonde. This road from Lusaka to Livingstone has been worked on. The Lusaka/Ndola Road and Lusaka/Kapiri Mposhi Road to Nakonde and Kasama have been worked on. Government embarked on roads that were already earmarked for rehabilitation. 
Madam Speaker, the Bottom Road is not part of the Great North Road. I have said that as much as they may not be new, but these are some of the roads that we have now embarked on in order to improve the infrastructure so that we can all drive safely and view the Ing’ombe Ilede Site along the road.  The point that I am embarking on is that this Government has put in plans and if we had gone to these new infrastructures, we would have not had probably time and money to look at others.

I also want to talk about vehicles referred to by one of the hon. Members this morning as second hand. I want to educate my colleagues and indeed the users of these second hand vehicles that out of the good policies of this Government, it has allowed us to drive these vehicles. It does not subtract the end users to consult. I advise the end users of these vehicles to order vehicles that are of high standard and designed for this part of the region. Some of the vehicles that come into the country start smoking within two days. This is because they are either designed to be used in very cold countries and have gadgets to that effect that can be either looked at. If they want, they can consult me and I will advise them.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, this brings me to the other issue of motivating workers in this country. Due to the good policies, banks are now openly giving loans. For instance, Barclays Bank Zambia Limited, is giving loans up to K50 million. Some of these vehicles cost about K20 million. Who will stop teachers, nurses and marketeers from driving?

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, let us be objective. For instance, a Corolla 2 E engine costs about US$1,800.

Mrs Sinyangwe: On a point of order, Madam.

Mr Sichilima: Duty to be paid if imported is about K5 million or K6 million. I am sure, teachers can also get loans to enable them buy cars.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Sichilima: This Government means well.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, on agriculture …

Mrs Sinyangwe: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sichilima: You are supposed to be a wife.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, this is the first time I am raising a point of order on this special husband of mine.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mrs Sinyangwe: Madam Speaker, I withdraw. Is the hon. Deputy Minister in order to speak about teachers who he knows very well that they are the lowest paid in the region and that Government does not even provide adequate housing allowance to ask who has stopped them to drive? I need your serious ruling, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The guidance on this point of order from the Chair is that the hon. Member has raised a point of order which is subject to debate and, therefore, the hon. Member may use it for her debate because it is a debatable issue.

May the hon. Deputy Minister for Energy and Water Development, please, continue.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, I am a very experienced Minister who has been in Parliament for two terms and served in four ministries. It is very difficult for one to raise points of order on my debate.

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, let me now talk about agriculture. This Government has done very well in agriculture.

Hon. Opposition Member: No!

Mr Sichilima: The failures of certain areas as reported can be either technical or natural and should not be the reason why people should say that this Government has bad policies. This is business. In business, you either lose or gain. Agriculture is so technical that if you make one mistake, it will take you another season to recover. We are going through turbulence. However, I must put on record and urge teachers in Northern Province and Mbala, in particular, to take up farming.

Madam Speaker, I would like to touch very quickly on mines. We were misled by the hon. Member of Parliament for Chingola when he talked about mines booming because of the good price on the market. Ore has been there. I want to declare interest. I am a former miner. I was part of the exploration that went as far as Lumwana and Kalengwa including areas in Southern Province. Now, ore could not be explored because of the bad policies.

Kabwe which is 170 km from Lusaka had most of its shops empty, but because of the good polices of this Government, people are conducting business. In fact, it is difficult to find a place to conduct business now.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, Lusaka might not be a mining town, but people have turned their homes into business offices.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: What more do you want this Government to do? We need support from hon. Colleagues in order to change this country. It is not good for people to come here and say something negative about this country. People should not advocate for fights because this country will never fight …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: … because I have nephews who are Tonga, Lamba, Ila and Mambwe. Madam Speaker, I look after relatives of different tribes. Who would pick up a machete and start fighting?

Hon. Government Members: No one!

Mr Sichilima: Some of our wives come from Eastern Province and so how can I go and fight the people of Eastern Province?

Madam Speaker, we must preach peace if we are to develop. You only need to visit some of these countries that have been at war for you to realise that Zambia is heaven on earth.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: The let us not take the peace that we are enjoying now for granted.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Let us debate issues here.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, I thank you for allowing me to contribute on the motion on the Floor of the House. My debate will be short and is divided into two parts. The first part of my debate is about lamentations and the other part is a piece of advice to the Government.

Madam, let me start by saying that the budget simply means a planned revenue and expenditure of an organisation. In this case, it is the Government. It simply guides where resources should come from and be spent.

Madam Speaker, I would like to put an argument that it does not necessarily mean that all is well simply because the budget presented to this House is good. It is now 18 years since the MMD Government came into power. There have been so many good budgets presented by various hon. Ministers to this House yet I have not seen anything good coming from those well presented budgets by well qualified and experienced hon. Ministers. As long as the majority of the poor people of Zambia cannot see development in our areas, I will not stand and support anybody for presenting a good budget in this House. I say so because the people of Chinsali are sick and tired …

Hon. PF Member: Top soil!

Mr C. Mulenga: Yes, top soil. They are sick and tired of listening to hopes that are never fulfilled. They are tired of listening to flowery well-decorated speeches that do not benefit them.

Madam Speaker, I stand here a bitter person. There is nothing that this Government can boast about in Chinsali Constituency. This Government has failed even to build a simple toilet or pit latrine in Chinsali. Any hon. Minister can challenge me if they wish.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I sometimes fail to understand why the people of Chinsali have been marginalised. What have the people of Chinsali done? I want to know.  Is it because that is where Mr Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe, Mr Kapasa Makasa, Mr Malama Sokoni and Alice Lenshina Mulenga came from?

Interruption

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The hon. Member should not introduce those innocent characters in that manner because you will subject them to debate by others. Can you please debate the budget?

May he, please, continue.

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I said earlier that I am a bitter person as I stand on this Floor of the House and so I am just mentioning these people because they fought for this nation.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! I think that the House must be guided that when a ruling is made, there is no need for the hon. Member to go back and justify why. I have said that you may not introduce these people in the manner that you are doing. You are putting them in a questionable position. That is not the way you bring names of freedom fighters to this House. You can talk and commend them, but you cannot bring them in that manner. That is my ruling.

May the hon. Member for Chinsali, please, continue.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I am obliged. The people of Chinsali have not seen for so many years any tangible development. We have been crying for road rehabilitation in the area, but no one from this Government listens.

We have been crying for the Chinsali/Kasama Road, Safwa Road and a bridge to be constructed at Safwa Road, but nothing has happened. When people want to go to Kasama, they have to pass through Chinsali, Mpika and then proceed to Kasama. People spend a lot of money on transport. In fact, the Government officials also use this route during their tours. This is quite painful.

Madam Speaker, we have been crying for construction of the Mbesuma Bridge and rehabilitation works also to be undertaken on the road. I am happy that the hon. Minister of Works and Supply touched this issue. He has seen the importance of the road from Isoka/Kafwimbi to Kasama. This is an economical road, but nothing has happened.

We have, for a long time been crying for the completion of Mulakupikwa Teachers’ Training College, which was supposed to be turned into a police college during the First Republic. That infrastructure is just deteriorating. In fact, it is a ramshackle because nothing is happening.

Madam, we have also been crying for the electrification of Mulilansolo Rural Health Centre which is about 80 km from Chinsali Hospital. There are a lot of people living in this area, but the Government cannot provide electricity because of lack of poles. It is now 6 years since we requested for electrification of this area. When is this going to be done? I think this Government does not listen.

Madam speaker, we have been crying for the construction of health posts. Last year, I asked a question in this House on how many health posts have been constructed in Chinsali. Not even one. Government has been assuring this House that they will construct health posts, but when will this be done? We are marginalised.

Madam Speaker, for a long time we have crying for the construction of low cost residential units. Even Government officers have no houses to rent in Chinsali. There is no accommodation. We have been lamenting this for a long time, but no one listens.

Madam Speaker, after 44 years of independence, Chinsali District still has no filling station and yet the Tanzania-Zambia (TAZAMA) Pipe Line passes through Chinsali. This pipe line transports fuel from Dar-es-Salaam to Indeni in Ndola. The largest machine that pumps crude oil from Dar-es-Salaam is in Chinsali and people just see fuel being transported, but cannot access it. It is very unfortunate. Now, why should I stand here as a representative of the people of Chinsali and praise this Government?

Hon. PF Members: Do not!

Mr C. Mulenga: With all these lamentations that I have put forward, why should I?

Hon. PF Member: Just cry.

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, where is the growth that this Government has been preaching about every day? It is evident that this wealth only ends up in Chibombo and other parts of the country because Chinsali has never benefited from this.

Interruptions

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, I would like to state here that the national cake has not been shared equitably.

Hon PF Member: It has never been

Mr C. Mulenga: Yes, it has never been. We need to share it properly.

Madam Speaker, I am worried. If you have followed the debate on the budget this year, you will notice that it is on district and provincial levels. This is very dangerous. I can see this country shifting from socialism to regionalism.

Laughter
 
Mr C. Mulenga: Yes, I am serious about it. It is shifting from socialism to regionalism and this is dangerous for the nation.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Hon PF Member: Bauze mwana!

Mr C. Mulenga: It is very dangerous. I want to give an example of Dr Kenneth Kaunda, who was a true socialist. He had placed everything in all areas. In Livingstone, a car assembly plant was put up. In Kafue, there was the Kafue Nitrogen Chemicals. In Chipata, there was a cotton ginnery and a bicycle plant. In Mumbwa, there was a cotton ginnery and there was a glass factory in Kapiri Mposhi.  In Western Province, there was a cashew nut plantation and there was Mansa Batteries in Mansa. He balanced the equation. However, what we are seeing now is something else.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: This is dangerous.

Madam Speaker, I would like to remind my colleagues on your right that regionalism has brought about conflicts in Africa. It has brought problems. The recent example of regionalism is happening in Kenya.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: There is more to what is happening in Kenya. It is not only about elections. No. There is more to it. It is regionalism.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: That is the problem that is there.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, I am listening very attentively to the debate, but very worried. Is the hon. Member of Parliament speaking now in order to incite and compare Zambia to nations that have gone to war and even bring in socialism and regionalism? Is he in order to ask Government to put up a filling station in Chinsali when it should be done by private businessmen? Inciting is a very serious issue. I, therefore, need your serious ruling, Madam.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! The hon. Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development is concerned about the debate being made by the hon. Member for Chinsali. The guidance in this House indeed after listening to debates is that each hon. Member has a constituency and in your debates as hon. Members, you concentrate on your own constituencies and sometimes regions. Sitting here is a perception indeed that we should not allow to continue because when hon. Members debate, those from each region bemoan. I have not heard of region which is happy. Every region feels marginalised. Therefore, the issue of regionalism should not be emphasised on.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: It is actually fair distribution that the hon. Member is wants and not that there is a region which is totally advantaged.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Therefore, when you are debating whether in comparison, let us not seem like we are telling the people out there that Zambia is divided into regions. You can make comparisons of how wealth has been distributed without necessarily emphasising on this point of division. You are the leaders in this mission. Therefore, if you choose to divide the nation from here, that will be a dangerous precedence. Can you debate issues as they are? Bemoan your area if there is no development, but can we moderate our language for the sake of those that are listening to our debates. Zambia is not divided. Let us speak if there is unfairness without necessarily saying we are divided and avoid using war language. This House is not here to advocate war, but to…

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!  This House is not here to advocate war, but unity. This is a National Assembly. Therefore, let us speak as such.

May the hon. Member for Chinsali, please, continue.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, thank you for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, let me now talk about the growth of the economy. This is the second part of my debate and it is a piece of advice. The macro-economic growth indicators maybe achieved even at whatever level that we may think of. If this growth we are talking about does not reach the poor people, then it is meaningless.

Madam Speaker, let me share with the House what happened in Australia in the 1930s. Most of the economists were primarily concerned with macro-economics that as long as there was competition in the market with flexible prices and wages, economists tended to believe that the economy would correct itself. That is what they thought. They claimed that employment was only a temporal thing. All the unemployed person had to do was to accept a job at a lower wage. The 1930s depression in that country proved how disastrous this type of thinking was.

The famous English Economist, Mr J. M. Keynes in 1936 offered a radically different analysis of the economy. His basic point was that employment and economic activity depended on the level of total spending in the economy.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, what Mr Keynes meant was if private spending …

Hon. Government Member: Fimofine, nabomfwa.

Mr C. Mulenga: I research and if you do not research, it is up to you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: If private spending is not sufficient to maintain full employment, then Government should cover up spending. Now, that is what I expect from this Government. What happened in Australia in 1930s is exactly what is happening to our economy today.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: We can achieve the macro-economic indicators, Gross Domestic Product (GDP) and inflation because we have the mines and tourism sectors that are ticking. Now, who is controlling these sectors?
Hon. Opposition Member: Foreigners.

Mr C. Mulenga: They are foreigners. Therefore, if copper production drops in this country, GDP will definitely go up, there is on the ground. People are not getting anything from these two sectors. What we need to look at is that whether people are able to send children to school. Do we have drugs in hospitals?

Hon. Opposition Members: Bwekeshapo!

Mr C. Mulenga: Do we have the basic necessities for our lives? No. If the macro-economic indicators rise, there will be no problem. However, as long as people do not get the benefits, then this is nothing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, it is, therefore, important that certain steps are taken to ensure that the suffering of the people in the country is reduced. A significant and meaningful approach to reducing poverty in this country lies in achieving sustained increase in economic growth at a rate higher than the population growth …

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes, that is right.

Mr C. Mulenga: … of at least slightly over 3.5 per cent per annum. This way, new jobs and economic activities will enable the poor to increase their income balanced by a strong equitable distribution of development benefits.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Bwekeshapo!

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, the other thing is that the national economic policy must make poverty eradication a priority granted that the majority of the poor people live in the rural areas and survive on farming. The country’s agriculture and food policy should aim at increasing the productivity of small-scale agriculture through access to production services, new technology and high value crops. On this point, it is sad to note that the budget on agriculture has been reduced.

Madam Speaker, …

Ms Masiye: Endesha.

Mr C. Mulenga: … this budget has nothing to do with the poor.

In conclusion, I want to ask the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to unlock resources using a master key and not an ordinary key where you only open other areas and leave Chinsali and the rest locked forever.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Speaker, you might realise that this is the first time I am debating in this session and in so doing, let me join Hon. Mumbi Phiri in wishing Hon. Ben Kapita a quick recovery.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Secondly, let me say a few words about one man who I miss so dearly in this House and this is the late Hon. Henry Mtonga. I miss him so much and I am sure that a lot of us miss him.

Mr Munaile: Zowona!

Mr Lubinda: I have heard people shouting, “Zowona!” as testimony to the fact that he is being missed. May His Soul Rest in peace.

In saying that, I always lament why that gallant man had to die in South Africa. What was the reason for him to go and lay his life in a foreign country? Secondly, why did the late Hon. Henry Mtonga have to borrow so much for his medical attention? Why was it that the Government had to sing on all media that the loan that he acquired so painfully was written off? What was the reason for this? Was it to embarrass him in his death?

Madam Speaker, having said that, let me move on and say that it is a pity that our one gallant woman did not manage to get the seat that all of us, Zambians, hoped she would get This well qualified woman is Inonge Mbikusita-Lewanika. I hope that at an opportune time, the hon. Minister of Foreign Affairs will come and give a statement to this House because at the time when the President was going to the African Unity (AU) summit, he actually told the Zambian people that he was confident that he would come back with the AU Chairpersonship. Alas, we lost it.

Madam Speaker, let me now about the budget. In debating the budget, I have structured my debate so that I can reflect a little bit on political pluralism and also talk about the influence of the Opposition on the Budget of 2008. I will raise a few of my concerns and talk about a very important phenomenon, which is the Multi Facility Economic Zone (MFEZ) and, particularly, the planned MFEZ in Chilenje. I will also talk a little bit about the National Constitutional Conference (NCC).

Madam Speaker, several hon. Members of the Government have stood and said that they deserve to be applauded for what they are doing. They have told us in the Opposition not to just criticise them. They have also told us to applaud them because they are a working Government and are doing very well. They also claim to be a listening Government.

I want to say, Madam Speaker, that multi-party democracy survives on the premise that competition is a midwife of development. That is the reason why we have poor politics in Zambia. It is on the basis that unless you have competitors, you become complacent.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Therefore, those on the Opposition who stand up and criticise Government do not mean ill. They mean extremely well and even better than those sitting the Government side because they are pointing at their weaknesses. That is the reason why the people of Zambia elected people both from the ruling and opposition parties. Please, do not crucify us if we do not sing glory hallelujah.

Laughter

Mr Lubinda: For my colleagues in the Opposition, I want to say that having been an Opposition Member of Parliament for the last 6 years, I am proud to continue to be one because I can see that I am contributing to the governance of this country. The day when you hear me stand here and say, if you criticise President Mwanawasa, you are criticising God, then you should know that my bag is empty. As an Opposition Member of Parliament, my bag must always be full of criticisms to make sure that Government functions for the betterment of the people who sent us here.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: The reason we are here is to provide checks and balances, but more so, we are in competition for governance. My dear colleagues in the Opposition, the day you will stand up and say well done, you will be literally telling the people out there that do not even bother about us forming government because we are doing well.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Then, you are not worth being called Opposition. You must go that side and sit at the back there because there is enough space. If you want to continue to be in the Opposition, let us put our friends under check because that is when they will work.

Having said that, I want to demonstrate that I am a very proud Member of Parliament in the Opposition and there are many here who are proud to be in the Opposition. In so doing, let me demonstrate the second point which is on the influence of this Opposition on the 2008 Budget and this is very obvious.

In 2005, standing here, I did raise the issue of Mineral Royalty Tax and I did caution my colleagues that they are the ones who committed Zambia to the development agreements. I told them that it will be very difficult for them to go back to their colleagues to ask this supreme law making House help them amend the law so that they could go back and say that they were just in the executive. The supreme law making House has decided to amend the law. What choice do we have? You did not listen.

In 2006, debating the budget, then a novice, Hon. Mwenya Musenge proposed an amendment to introduce a sliding tax on profit. What was the response? Arrogance, no one listened …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … and yet now, in the President Speech, that was the key issue. He had to take a break to come back and announce that policy statement.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: That is the theme or the main key issue in the Budget Speech. Imagine had that suggestion been taken on last year, we would not have been talking about the US$415 million being locked up in a special account which is totally unconstitutional. I am demonstrating that the opposition is working extremely well.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, on the issue of mining and Mineral Royalty Tax, I want to say that the hon. Minister is a constitutional man. Please, do not introduce a special account which is not accepted by this House. It has to come to this House. I want to say that you want that fund to be used as a stabilisation account. Hon. Minister, you know of advanced economies that have reserve accounts. Those reserve accounts are given money by their parliaments not by the executive. Bring that money here and tell us that you want a stabilisation account then, and then we shall allow you to have the money in the budget as a stabilisation vote. Do not do it outside this House.

I want to put it to you hon. Minister that the reason why the US$415 million is not in the budget …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

__________

The House adjourned at 1255 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 12th February, 2008.

 

 

 

 

WRITTEN REPLIES TO QUESTIONS

DEPARTMENTS OF THE MINISTRY OF AGRICULTURE AND CO-OPERATIVES IN CHIENGE DISTRICT

130. Dr Kalumba (Chienge) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) how many departments of the ministry are based in Chienge District;

(b) how many departments of the ministry are located in Nchelenge, but are supposed to be based in Chienge; and

(c) how many times departmental officers of the ministry located in Nchelenge have made supervisory and field trips to Chienge in the last twelve months.

The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kapita): I wish to inform the House as follows:

(a) Chienge District is headed by an Acting District Agricultural Co-ordinator and the following are the ministry departments base in Chienge:

(i) Department of Agriculture (headed by a Senior Agricultural Officer);

(ii) Department of Veterinary and Livestock (headed by a Veterinary Assistant);

(iii) Department of Co-operatives and Development (headed by a Co-operatives Inspector); and

(iv) Department of Fisheries (headed by an Assistant Fisheries Technician);

Besides the departments mentioned in (a) above, all the remaining ministry departments as per district-level establishment, that is, Department of Human Resources and Administration and Agric-business and Marketing, are established for Chienge District. However, the ministry is waiting for Treasury authority from Cabinet Office to fill up staff positions that are vacant. There is also a shortage of office accommodation that needs to be addressed; and

(b) since Chienge is an autonomous/established district, the Acting District Agricultural Co-ordinator and his staff based in the district have been undertaking all supervisions and field trips within the district and the overall general supervision and monitoring has been/is done by the Provincial Agricultural Co-ordinator’s Office, in the last twelve months.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

  ELECTRIFICATION OF VIABLE AREA FROM MONZE TO NIKO

137. Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development when the economically viable area from Monze to Niko will be electrified under the Rural Electrification Programme.

The Minister of Energy and Water development (Ms Sayifwanda): Mr Speaker, I would like to inform this House that the area in question has been identified for electrification. Based on the Rural Electrification Master Plan, the area is expected to be electrified by 2014.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.