Debates- Wednesday, 13th February, 2008

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Wednesday, 13th February, 2008

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, I rise to make a Ministerial Statement on the 2007 Grade 9 examinations and 2008 Grade 10 selection.

Sir, I wish to inform the nation that the processing of the 2007 Grade 9 examinations has now been completed and the selection exercise of the Grade 10 pupils for 2008 academic year has been concluded. Mr Speaker, the following features are to be noted:

Number of candidates

Mr Speaker, in 2007, 218,736 candidates broken down into 116,495 boys and 102,241 girls entered for the examinations compared to 195,243 candidates in 2006. This is an increase of 7.57 per cent on the number that entered in 2006.

Sir, a total number of 189,599 broken into 102,534 boys and 87,065 girls sat for the examinations in 2007 compared to 176,263 candidates in 2006.

Number selected

Mr Speaker, a total number of 70,442 broken into 37,108 boys and 33,334 girls were selected to Grade 10, giving a progression rate of 37.15 per cent. That is 36.19 per cent boys and 38.29 per cent girls.

Sir, another notable feature of this year’s results is that all the female candidates who obtained full Grade 9 Certificates in Northern, North-Western and Western Provinces were selected in Grade 10.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: The performance percentages by provinces were as follows:

Northern Province had a total number of 18,641 candidates who sat for the examinations. Out of this number, 7,788 had full certificates broken down into 5,258 boys and 2,530 girls, giving a pass rate of 41.8 per cent.

Luapula Province had 11,673 candidates who sat for the examinations. Out of this number, 6,826 candidates broken into 4,458 boys and 2,368 girls obtain full certificates giving a pass rate of 58.47 per cent.

Southern Province had 24,488 candidates who sat for the examinations. Out of this number, 13,003 candidates broken into 7,600 boys and 5,403 girls obtained full certificates giving a pass rate of 53.09 per cent.

Eastern Province had 15,749 candidates who sat for the examinations. Out of this number, 8,403 candidates, broken into 5,587 boys and 2,816 girls obtained full certificates giving a pass rate of 53.35 per cent.

Copperbelt Province had 42,595 candidates who sat for the examinations. Out of this number, 21,071 obtained full certificates, giving a pass rate of 49.46 per cent.

North-Western Province had a total number of 10,366 candidates. This is broken into 6,186 boys and 4,108 girls who sat for the examinations. Sir, 5,101 candidates obtained full certificates, giving a pass rate of 49.20 per cent.

Mr Speaker, Western Province had 10,392 candidates broken into 5,944 boys and 4,448 girls, who sat for the examinations. Out of this number 4,736 candidates obtained full certificates, giving a pass rate of 45.57 per cent.

Sir, Lusaka Province had 34,886 candidates, broken into 17,498 boys and 17,388 girls who sat for the examinations. Those who obtained full certificates were 18,864, giving a pass rate of 54.07 per cent.

Mr Speaker, the total number of candidates who sat for the examinations was 189,599. Out of this number, 96,024, broken into 57,037 boys and 38,986 girls obtained full certificates giving a national pass rate of 50.65 per cent. These figures also tell us that Luapula Province had the highest pass percentage at 58.48 per cent …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: …broken into 62.59 per cent for boys and 52.03 per cent for girls.

Mr Speaker, to stress the point, all the female candidates who obtained full Grade 9 certificates in Northern, North-Western and Western provinces were selected into Grade 10.


Mr Speaker, out of 218,736 candidates who entered for the examinations, 29,116 were absent from the examinations, compared to 18,980 in 2006. Of these, 13,961 were boys while 15,155 were girls. The Northern Province had the lowest rate of absenteeism at 9.22 per cent. The Eastern Province had the highest rate of absenteeism  …

Mr F. T. R. Tembo: Nyau.


Professor Lungwangwa: …at 15.54 per cent, followed by the Copperbelt Province at 14.39 per cent.

Mr Speaker, overall, there was an increase in absenteeism from 9.72 per cent in 2006 to 13.32 per cent in 2007. Our analysis, so far, indicates that absenteeism could be attributed to such factors as death of parents and guardians, whereby, children had to relocate to different places and to a certain extent, early marriages, pregnancies, death and loss of interest in school. To reduce on the number of absenteeism, the Ministry is offering school bursaries to vulnerable school going children and a school feeding programme has been introduced in some schools.

In addition, the Ministry has intensified the sensitisation campaign against girls’ absenteeism through the programme called “Go Girls, Secure the Future” and through counselling by guidance teachers.


Mr Speaker, only twenty-four candidates were involved in examination malpractice in the 2007 examinations. The nature of the malpractices was largely related to smuggling of materials in the examination rooms by the candidates and being assisted by some people in the examination rooms. The stringent measures the Ministry has adopted to curb malpractices are paying dividends. Schools were closely monitored during the examination period by standards officers from all levels, officers from the Examinations Council of Zambia and officers from the security wings of Government.

 Special Education needs

Mr Speaker, a total number of 129 pupils with special education needs, broken into seventy boys and fifty-nine girls were selected to Grade 10 out of 167 who sat for the examinations. This gives a passing rate of 77.2 per cent.

 Release of the Results

Mr Speaker, members of the public should obtain the results from the schools were pupils wrote their examinations. No results will be given from the Ministry of Education, Headquarters or the Examinations Council of Zambia.

 Opening Dates

Mr Speaker, Grade 10 classes will open on Monday, 18th February, 2008. The grace period ends on Monday, 3rd March, 2008. Pupils who fail to report to their respective schools by the end of the grace period will lose their places.

Sir, I also wish to take advantage of this occasion to announce to the nation that a first ever technical girls’ high school has been constructed in Ndola and is scheduled to open with the first intake of 150 Grade 10 girls in May, 2008.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Members may now ask questions on points of clarification on the statement which has been given by the hon. Minister of Education.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, first, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister on allowing the girls to proceed. However, I am a bit worried about the absenteeism. Are you doing something to address the issue of examination fees at Grade 10 level because I have a feeling this is causing absenteeism of students from schools.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, indeed, we are doing something about the examination fees. The vulnerable pupils are supported through the bursary scheme as I indicated yesterday. In addition to that, we will undertake a comprehensive research into this particular problem so that we identify the key factors which might be contributing to the absenteeism.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, there are children who could not write their examinations because they re-located when their parents passed away. Is it possible for the Ministry of Education to put a policy so that when children re-locate say, from Ndola to Livingstone, they can still write their examination in Livingstone instead of them being counted as absent and yet they had a problem that is why they could not go back to write wherever they had registered.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, that is a suggestion, which we can explore as ministry so that the pupils are not inconvenienced.

 Thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Education which province had the highest number of malpractices and why.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, we have a detailed breakdown of the information which I do not have with me here, but I can make it available to the hon. Member.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the overall progression in the country from Grade 9 to Grade 10 is the order of 50 per cent. Would the hon. Minister accept that this presents a very sad picture as half of our children are unable to progress to Grade 10 up to Grade 12. When would he, therefore, foresee a situation when we will have universal education up to Grade 12 so that every child reaches Grade 12.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, indeed, as a ministry, we are concerned about the progression rate from Grade 9 into Grade 10 and this is because of the number of palaces at Grade 10 level. Therefore, it is for this reasons that Government has embarked on the construction of more high schools in the country.

Mr Speaker, as I announced yesterday, this year alone, thirty-one high schools countrywide are being constructed and more high schools will be constructed throughout the country. This will contribute to a higher progression rate for our pupils into high school education.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, first of all I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Education for opening the Girls’ Technical Secondary School in Ndola which falls under my constituency.

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: Secondly, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what is special about the girls who got full certificates in three provinces namely, Northern, North Western and Western Province whom were all given places in Grade 10 compared to their counterparts in other provinces who got full certificates but did not find places in Grade 10. Can the hon. Minister tell us the criteria used on this issue?

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to recognise the acknowledgment of the hon. Member for the new Girls’ Technical High School in Ndola which is a model high school. We visited the school with the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and it is a model. That is the type of high school which will be constructed in all the provinces countrywide.

 Hon. Members:  Hear, hear!

 Professor Lungwangwa: That is the commitment of Government.

Professor Lungwangwa:  Mr Speaker, there is nothing special about those provinces where all the girls that passed proceeded into Grade 10. It is just availability of places, that is the reason for that.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr C. B. K. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, may the hon. Minister tell us the performance rate in terms of pass rate obtaining in private schools as compared to that obtaining in Government schools in the last examinations.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, analysis of the different variables on the examination performance is, of course, something that the Examinations Council of Zambia undertakes. At the moment, we do not have the figures, but we can make them available when they are ready.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Sir, could the hon. Minister explain why we are stuck at an average of 50 per cent pass rate. To me, 50 per cent, 58 per cent and below appears to be very law compared to the previous years. What has gone wrong? Why only 50 per cent of our children are passing and the rest are not, notwithstanding that they are not finding schools places beyond Grade 9.

 Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member should know that we are making progress in terms of the pass rate. We, of course, would like to see more of our children passing the Grade 9 Examination. Some of the contributing factors could be the current stringent measures which have curbed malpractices in the examinations.

 Secondly, we need more teachers, more education materials and to build more schools so that all these factors put together can increasingly contribute to the higher performance of our children. This is what the Government has embarked upon through my ministry by recruiting more teachers, putting more educational materials in our schools and by constructing more classrooms.

Mr Speaker, when all this is increasingly being done, we shall eventually see a much higher performance in terms of pass rate of our pupils at this level.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, I was following the hon. Minister very closely and I noticed that he did not give us the results for Central Province. Could he assist us with that?

 Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, that was just an eyesight problem, but we have the result for Central Province.

Sir, the total number that entered for examinations were 23,850, those who sat were 20,809, those who obtained full certificates were 10,242 and the total number of those who were absent from the examination was 341.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Munaile (Malole); Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has given us figures of those who obtained full certificates, but we have not been told how many have actually been given places. Would the hon. Minister state how many have been given places in Grade 10?

 Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I have indicated the progression rate for both girls and boys and the national average and if the hon. Member wants to know the actual details, we have the document here, he can go through it.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to tell this House whether Government has put in place any policy framework on the Academic Production Unit (APU) so far.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, a while back I indicated that last year, we did undertake a research study on APU and the report is what we have been studying as a ministry and that will eventually result in a policy statement.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I am a bit worried when I look at the figures. When I look at the figure for Luapula added to the figure for Northern, it is almost equivalent to the figure that is in Central. However, when you look at the areas, Northern and Luapula, they are very big areas compared to Central. I want to find out what the problem is.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the question is not clear but when the hon. Member makes it clear, we can discuss what his concerns are.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Mumbi (Munali): Mr Speaker, last year when the hon. Minister was giving a ministerial statement, a lot of hon. Members raised concerns about the children who are dropping out of school. He mentioned in this House that Government was thinking of putting up training institutes so that these children could be empowered. How far has he gone with this programme?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, in the Ministry of Education we have study centres where children who fail to progress to higher grades are captured and they continue with their education programmes. In addition to that, there are such facilities in the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development and Government is concerned about the life-long education opportunities for children and opportunities are being created both in my Ministry and the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development.

I thank you, Sir.

Reverend Sampa-Bredt (Chawama): Mr Speaker, is the girls’ technical college in Ndola that the hon. Minister is very proud of constructed by the Government? If not, who are the partners and what are the strings attached to that?

Mr Chanda: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, indeed we are proud of Ndola Girls Technical High School.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Sir, that development causes for celebration on the part of all of us in this House…

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: … because, Sir, as I indicated yesterday, the construction of high schools stopped way back in the 1990s and what is being done now is a creation of opportunities for our children.

Sir, there are two girls technical high schools which will be constructed with the support of the donor funding facility. These are, Ndola Girls Technical High School; and Kapiri Girls Technical High School. The rest of the schools will be constructed using government funding.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Misapa (Mporokoso): Mr Speaker, may I learn from the hon. Minister the number of Grade 10 pupils who have been selected.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, a total of 70,442 broken into 37,108 boys and 33,334 girls were selected.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Phiri (Luanshya): Mr Speaker, I appreciate that we have a girls technical school on the Copperbelt, however, I want to find out whether this is going to be a fee paying secondary school or is it falling into the category of free education?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, free education at the moment refers to Grades 1 to 7. That is where we have free basic education. However, the other echelons of the school system are, of course, inviting some degree of cost sharing with the parents.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, with the sweet statistics for Luapula Province, is the hon. Minister aware that lack of requisites in schools such as desks is hampering the community to come up with initiatives to put up more classroom blocks? Sir, probably, this is the reason why not every girl child has been absorbed into Grade 10. What is the ministry doing to ensure that this problem is taken care of?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I have on several occasions indicated to the hon. Members in this House that we have a programme for procurement of educational materials and desks and this is the programme which is continuing and the hon. Member is very much aware of that.

I thank you, Sir.




149. Mr Chanda (Kankoyo) asked the Minister of Health how many bicycles had been purchased by the Government for HIV/AIDS activities in rural areas.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Puma): Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health purchased 3,500 bicycles for HIV/AIDS activities in rural areas. Sir, 3,000 bicycles were purchased using support from Global Funds whilst 500 were purchased by Zambia National Response to HIV/AIDS (ZANARA) funds.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chanda: Mr Speaker, recently some places have been cut off because of floods. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what his Government is doing to reach people infected with HIV/AIDS in far flung areas which have been cut off?

Dr Puma: Mr Speaker, as a ministry, when we knew that the rainy season was coming, we made sure that most of the institutions that are usually cut off by the rains were supplied with adequate quantities of drug kits to ensure that services continue to be delivered.

I thank you, Sir.


150. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Health when delivery beds would be procured for the following health centres in Chipili Parliamentary Constituency:

(i) Chisheta Health Post;
(ii) Chipili Health Post;
(iii) Mwenda Health Post;
(iv) Luminu Health Post;
(v) Kaoma Makasa Health Post;
(vi) Mukonshi Health Post; and
(vii) Mutipula Health Post.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Puma): Mr Speaker, under the Emergency Obstetrics and Neonatal Care (EMONC) programme, the Ministry of Health is in the process of buying forty delivery beds, which will be distributed to all the districts of Luapula Province taking priority of health facilities where we have trained staff in the programme. Out of these, Mwense will receive nine delivery beds as follows, three for Mwense; three for Mambilima Mission Hospital; one for Lukwesa Rural Health Centre; one for Mwenda Rural Health Centre; and one for Chipili Rural Health Centre.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, out of the seven health posts which are in question, the ministry has informed this House that only two will be given to Chipili Constituency, I would like to find out when the other five delivery beds will be procured. Mr Speaker, you are aware that the ministry is on record making commitments without fulfilling them.

The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, in addition to central purchases, we have in place under decentralisation that the grants sent to the district health offices are used for those items that in their view, and of course, in the view of the stakeholders need immediate attention. We have given out a guide line as to resource allocation at district level. Each time they receive a grant, we have indicated in the guide line that 20 per cent to 30 per cent should be used for operations, 15 per cent should be used for fuel, 15 per cent should be used for administration, 20 per cent should be used for allowances as they go for seminars and other duties, 10 per cent should be used for community initiative activities, 10 per cent should be used for capital investments and 0.4 per cent should be used on additional drugs and medical supplies.

In addition to this, 0.4 per cent discretionally grant has been allocated in view of the abolition of user fees.

One, therefore, Mr Speaker, can see that at district level, our district directors of health can use this money to purchase those urgent items that have not been covered and that take a bit of time to be purchased centrally. I hope that the hon. Member can follow up this and question, why this guideline is not being followed so that our people can be served better.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, with the power outages we are experiencing now, I just want to find out from the hon. Minister whether the ministry is in the position to buy generators for clinics such as Ng’ombe Clinic and Chipata Clinic which run maternity services 24 hours.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, although we were talking about Chipili, now we have outages in the question. I need to indicate to the House our analysis of the presence or absence of generators which information will be shared by the whole House and I beg that I share that with the House in a comprehensive manner.

I thank you, Sir.


151. Mr C. K. Banda (SC) (Chasefu) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) when Lusuntha High School in Chasefu Parliamentary Constituency will be provided with a modern science laboratory befitting a high school; and

(b) when construction of a class room block and teachers’ houses at the above school will begin.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, a science laboratory at Lusuntha High School is in the districts work plan and budget for 2008 and the project will start this year.

Secondly, currently the ministry is embarking on the building of a 1 x 3 classroom block and teachers houses will be started as soon as funds are available.

I thank you, Sir.


152. Mr I. Banda asked the Minister of Education when high schools will be built in the following constituencies in the Eastern Province:

(a) Chief Chikomeni’s Headquarters in Lumezi Parliamentary constituency; and

(b) Kasenengwa in Kasenengwa Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, Lumezi Day Secondary School and Lumezi Boarding High School are sufficient to cater for the population for school going children in the area.

Mr Speaker, Kasenengwa High School has been budgeted for in the 2008 Budget and the project will start this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


153. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) what caused the closure of Union Bank; and

(b) who the shareholders of the bank were.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Shakafuswa): Mr Speaker, Union Bank Zambia Limited was closed on 13th February, 2001. The bank had a high portfolio of non-performing loans, resulting from inside lending that was in excess of K3.5 billion. The bank was also operating with negative regulatory capital. In addition, the bank experienced liquidity problems and resorted to excessive borrowing on the inter-bank market and liquidity support from the bank of Zambia for its operations. The bank’s borrowings from the other banks and financial institutions had accumulated to K1,273,418,504.18 arising from manual clearing system on foreign instruments and local clearing for branches outside clearing centres. The Bank of Zambia, as lender of the last resort, allowed the bank’s current account to be overdrawn by K8,241,776,611.27 in a bid to save the bank from collapse.

The shareholders were requested to recapitalise the bank to revamp operations, but failed. In the absence of fresh investment from the shareholders, the Bank of Zambia found it imprudent to continue with liquidity support and was left with no option, but to place the bank in liquidation.

Mr Speaker, with regard to part (b) of the question, the shareholders of the bank were as follows:

Name of Shareholder       Shares (percentage)

J R textiles                                    18.23

Choso Holdings                            16.48

Ram Investments                          11.57

Kaleni Investments                       10.33

T. R. Babbar                                   5.06

Govindji & Co.                                 5.00

D. G. B. Investments                      4.92

Swiza Laboratories                       4.89

Fashion Bazaar                             4.85

Zambezi Paper Mills                       4.69

Cosmic Motors                                4.14
S. A. J. Rizvi                                   2.71

Woodgate holdings                        2.14

J. M. Motors                                   1.83

House of Automobiles                   1.63

Metson Investments                      1.20

Gamarial Lupunga                         0.19

Q. F. Alamgir                                  0.15

Total                                              100.0

The paid up capital of the bank was K2,505,790,629.00.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that answer. I just want to find out from the hon. Minister the measures that have been put in place to avoid such closures.

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, to start with, it is a statutory requirement for anyone who is running a bank today to put up capital of K12 billion and the Bank of Zambia through bank supervision has put up stringent measures of supervising the banks to ensure that they are operating within the banking regulations.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mbewe Mr Speaker, I would like to find out whether the workers of former Union Bank were paid their benefits. If not, why?

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, even though this is a new question, I think the liquidation of Union Bank is still ongoing and when the core assets are liquidated the bank will be able to pay what it owes the creditors.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Imenda (Lukulu East): Mr Speaker, realizing that the Bank of Zambia plays an overseer role by way of inspection, why did it allow the situation to deteriorate to the level of closure?

Mr Shakafuswa: Mr Speaker, to start with, Union Bank had a situation where the shareholders were borrowing from the bank and not paying back. It is not possible to put restrictions on who borrows from a bank because when a bank gives out credit, it expects people to pay back. Bank of Zambia looks at a loan portfolio which it feels would eventually pay back.

In a case where somebody becomes delinquent and does not pay back, even the Bank of Zambia within its supervisory role cannot do anything. So it is up to the bank in question to make proper judgment on who is credit worth and who is risky as it is giving out the money. Therefore, Sir, the Bank of Zambia did everything in its power and this why it even allowed the bank not to go under by lending it about K9 billion but Union Bank shareholders could not pay back their loans and the bank could not recapitalize and Government, through the Bank of Zambia, did enough.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning whether all the depositors who had their money stuck in Union Bank at the time of its closure have had their money paid back. I also would like to find out whether Government has now put in place an effective and efficient depositors’ protection scheme to protect depositors from losing money when banks close.

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, as we answered the hon. Member for Chadiza, the receiver sorts out these issues and if some have not been paid, then they are paid over time as the assets are disposed off. On whether we have put measures to make sure that anybody who puts money in the bank gets it when the bank collapses, that is why we have increased the capital to a minimum of K12 billion so that the people who are forming these financial institutions have some credibility and strength in terms of assets. If anything happens, the assets of K12 billion would be sold in order to realise the money to pay depositors and creditors.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, inside borrowing contributed to Capital Bank Plc going under and so I would like to point out that the K12 billion capital cannot stop a bank from being liquidated. What is Government doing to ensure that inside borrowing is stopped because the K12 billion can still be swallowed if the owners of the bank are businessmen?

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, when this Parliament enacted the new law, which is the Banking and Financial Services Act, we provided for issues like who will be shareholders in a bank and we now have a maximum of 25 per cent shareholding for any individual to own a bank. We have, therefore, in that particular law provided for the issues of who is going to borrow and what relationships the borrowers are going to have with the shareholders. So, indeed, when the situation become very poor we passed a new law where we provided for tightening of both the lending and the ownership of the banks.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that if I want to open a bank I need to have K12 billion. Now, is this K12 billion cash only or I can register some of my assets as part of the capital?

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, I presume that under the Companies Act, when we talk of capitalisation, we do not talk of your assets but of the money that has to be presented as equity in a company.

I thank you, Sir.

_____________ {mospagebreak}



(Debate resumed)

The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, last evening before the House adjourned, I stated that the health status also critically depends on nutrition. It is our view that the measures that Government has put in place through the Budget Speech by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning encompasses the Fertiliser Support Programme to small-scale farmers. The food security pack to assist the vulnerable but viable rural farmers, the purchase of agricultural products by Food Reserve Agency and Fisheries Development will not only result in the increased food security in the country, but also significantly contribute to the improvement in the health status of the population, especially children and other target groups needing nutritional support.

Other programme in the agricultural sector such as control of livestock diseases have an important bearing on the health control through the control of zoonotic diseases or diseases that are transmittable from animal to man.

Mr Speaker, Government’s prioritisation of the education sector will also contribute to improved health status of the population given the association that exists between literacy and health status to the extent that Government focuses on the recruitment of teachers and the infrastructure development transmitting to the higher literacy rates. The health sector stands to benefit in ways such as access to health facilities and uptake of the population of health promotion literature.

Mr Speaker, the health sector stands to benefit from Government’s increased allocation to the water and sanitation programmes. The decision to allocate K399.8 billion to improve access to safe drinking water, particularly in rural and peri-urban areas should translate into reduced incidence of water borne diseases.

Mr Speaker, before I conclude, I want to touch on a few concerns by the hon. Members, some of which were concerns with regard to availability of linen in our various health institutions.

Mr Speaker, through the decentralisation and the grants that go to the districts, the District Health Officers are mandated to utilise the allocations in terms of percentages for the purchase of those urgent items such as linen, blankets and other small items. Bulk purchases, for example, for protective clothing, this naturally has to be done at the centre. We started the purchase of protective clothing with University Teaching Hospital (UTH), and this year, there would be bulk purchases to cover our health workers throughout the country.

The other concern was with regard to drug shortages. I must state here that for rural based health centres, the distribution of rural health centre kits has been a resounding success. The difficulties we have had however were at district and second level hospitals. In order to mitigate these difficulties, in this year’s Budget, we have a budget line for drug procurement logistics officers whose mandate is to plan for long term international competitive process so that we have the drugs in the country at the time when they are required. With these measures, I am confident that we shall see that shortages of drugs in our hospitals at first and second levels are minimised.

Mr Speaker, let me conclude by pledging that the Ministry of Health will play its role in ensuring that the goal of Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation is attainable by ensuring that the Zambians are healthy and productive. However, Sir, this is not a passive thing, we need active participation of our citizens.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for affording me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this motion.

Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to inform this august House that I do not agree with the Budget.

Mrs Musokotwane: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, maybe what I can do is just to compliment the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning because he has tried to live up to his words. I remember the first time he was appointed as Minister of Finance and National Planning, he told this august House that he was from the village and the word ‘stealing’ which is unparliamentary was not in his vocabulary.

Mr Speaker, since I am a teacher, I know that our hon. Minister of Education is trying his level best.

Professor Lungwangwa: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: It is not his faulty but the faulty of Government because the educational system is not the right one. Mr Speaker, maybe I should take this opportunity to disagree with some of the statements that the hon. Minister said.

Firstly, I would like to look at a school. What is a school? A school is like a triangle. It has on one angle a teacher and on the other the pupil and then the environment. In this country, we are not looking at our teachers properly.

In terms of recruitment recently, thirty-two teachers were posted in Siavonga, and we are told that twenty-six of them are no longer there. Therefore, where is the recruitment of teachers? In this country if you go to rural areas, like Kalabo, you will see that there is no teaching because teachers cover long distances to come to Kalabo District to get their salaries, reducing the hours of teaching. They even hire scotch carts …


Mr Chazangwe: … yes, to come and buy whatever they want to buy such as furniture and it takes them about two to three days to travel back. Therefore, the question is, when do they teach?

Mr Speaker, we are told that the Grade 9 results are out, and I know the problems that are there. All of us here went to secondary schools like Chipata Secondary School, Namwala Secondary School and when we arrived there, there was a change because the environment was conducive to that of a secondary school. When a pupil went in any given class, for instance, a Geography class, it was really a class for geography.

Mrs Musokotwane: Tell them!

Mr Chazangwe: A class for history was a class for history, but these days, we have what we call basic schools. Now, let me explain what a basic school is in this country. A basic school is a primary school that runs from Grade 1 to Grade 7, but in some cases, it goes up to Grade 9. The question therefore, is who are the teachers that are teaching in basic schools? We all know that Grade 8 is Form 1 and the teachers who should teach Grade 8 are those with Diplomas. However, at the moment if you go to any given basic school you will not find a single teacher with a Diploma but these teachers will be teaching Grade 8 and Grade 9. That is where I want to challenge the hon. Minister of Education today that that is why results are not encouraging.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: Results are poor and I do not know whether it is the dogs that have gone to education.


Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, I want to disagree with the Budget today.

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Choma will withdraw the reference to dogs going to teach in schools.

Mr Chazangwe: Most obliged, Sir.  

However, what I am trying to say is that let us bring change in our schools. Let us be very concerned because there is no way this country Zambia can develop if we do not put proper measures, especially to the teachers that are there.

Mr Speaker, most of the teachers who are teaching in basic schools, for example, teachers in Lusaka Province, in Chilanga in particular teach in Kafue and are only getting K100,000 housing allowance. Where do you find a house today in Zambia for K100,000?

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Chazangwe: There is an English saying that you can take a horse to the river, but you cannot force it to drink water.

Our teachers are subjected to many difficult conditions, that is why they cannot teach. You have recruited teachers but do you have houses for these teachers?

Mr Mwiimbu: No!

Mr Chazangwe: Do you even give them proper incentives so that they can teach …

Hon. UPND Members: No!

Mr Chazangwe: …instead of cheating? Have you noticed that results are bad at the moment because teachers are not teaching, but cheating.


Mr Speaker: Order! That is unparliamentary.


Mr Speaker: That word must be withdrawn.

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, I substitute it with the word “misleading” the pupils.


Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, what we should do is to look at these problems. For example, at Grade 12 level, I have tried to go through the results for the year 2003. According to my analysis, mission schools are the ones that are doing well at Grade 12 level at the moment.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer!

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, we have allowed in our Government schools what is known as Academic Production Unit (APU). In these schools where there is APU, teachers are no longer teaching because they are overused.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, this system came about when teachers in this country were on strike for almost six months and they got no response. Teachers just started going back to teach and later came up with this idea of having extra classes in order for them to have some money.

Mr Speaker, as a result of this, you will see that teachers in all Government schools have no time to teach, instead, they go to these APU classes where they get direct money.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: Most of our teachers are always engaged in offering private tuition lessons instead of teaching a normal class which has about 100 which is also a problem. How do you allow a class to have 100 pupils? How does one teach? Is it normal? No!


Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, we need – Hon. Minister, I know it is not your fault. You have just found this system.

Mr Speaker: Order! Address the Chair.

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, it is not his fault but the fault is with the system of this country and of the MMD.

Hon. MMD Members: Oh!

Mr Chazangwe: Yes. There is something we need to do to improve education. For example, in the year 2003, in Lusaka Province, High Schools that made 100 per cent pass rate were mission schools. Mr Speaker, Kafue High School which got 100 per cent is a mission school not Government.

Hon. Opposition Member: It is for the United Church of Zambia (UCZ).

Mr Changwe: Yes. We have Makeni Islamic School which also got 100 per cent.

Hon. Opposition Members: Mission.

Mr Speaker: Order! No responses.


Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, let me put on my glasses. We have Matero Boys High School which is run by the Catholic at 98 per cent pass in the year 2003. We have David Kaunda High School - this one is a special school in this country. That is why it got 98.62 per cent. Kasisi High School got 97.06 per cent. This is just an example of schools that are doing well in this country.

Now, let me go to Central Province. We have St Pauls High School that got 98.57 per cent. Then, there is Caritas High School, a Catholic School that got 95.16 per cent. You can see that these institutions are not Government run.

In Luapula Province, St Charles Lwanga High School which is a mission school got 100 per cent. St Clement High School which is a mission school also got 93.26 per cent.

In Western Province, Mangango High School had 96.55 per cent. Holy Cross, another Catholic School had 94.12 per cent. St John’s High School had 95.52 per cent. Then I have deliberately put Senanga High School which got – because of the Deputy Minister who is my brother – 90.58 per cent.

In North-Western Province, Mutanda High School had 97 per cent. Ntambo High school had 87 per cent.

In Eastern Province, we have St. Mary’s High School with 100 per cent pass.

Hon. V. Mwale: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, St Monica High School had 97.3 per cent. Chaswa High School had 94 per cent, etc.

Mr Speaker, all these are institutions of learning run by missionaries.  What is our Government doing? Nothing! They have left everything to happen on their own, like God who said, let there be heaven and there was heaven.


Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, we need this Government to attach a lot of importance to the educational system.

Mr Speaker, what should happen in this country is for us to introduce Production Units (PU) and not APU. I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives to take agriculture to our schools so that pupils will learn how to grow the food that they are going to eat.

For example, if you went to David Livingstone Technical College, you will find the pupils growing their own tomatoes, they do not buy anything from outside. In my constituency, all the schools are mission schools and they have farms. What these schools need are tractors and a teacher from the Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) to make them self sufficient. Presently, every time you ask the hon. Minister of Education when a particular High School is to be built, he says there are no resources. No! Resources are there. This country is not poor.

Mr Speaker, in my constituency, I have four self-help high schools. The hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning was yesterday talking about us working hard. We are already there. In my constituency, I have four self-help high schools and one of them is Sikalongo. We even have a dam which we made using shovels and wheelbarrows with a distance of about 2km and plenty of water. We can do that. All we need is for the Government to cost share with the parents because villages need schools and yet the Government is silent and not doing anything.

Mr Speaker, in my constituency, I have Batoka High School where parents have already built a 1 x 3 classroom block. We need this school to be opened immediately but Government is not doing anything.


Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, allow me to talk about health. I have a hospital that I have often talked about. This hospital came about by the mercy of one farmer who went to settle in the Central Province, who offered his buildings to be used as a hospital. From that time, though renovations have been done, the hospital remains like that. Doctors and nurses are even running away from this hospital. If you go to the so called wards, you can not like it because all the wards smell death.


Mr Chazangwe: Now, may I, through this opportunity that you have given me, request the hon. Minister of Health to look into the issue of the Choma-Chondwe Hospital. We also need a modern market in Choma just like in other towns in the country. Therefore, I am asking the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to seriously consider giving us a modern market in Choma.

Sir, coming to roads, can I have all the feeder roads done for the purpose of agriculture because my constituency is a farming one, but we do not have feeder roads. Can you, please, look into this problem and ensure that these facilities are given.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, allow me to go back to the education sector.


Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, we already have two universities, the University of Zambia (UNZA) and the Copperbelt University (CBU). Now, I understand that we are opening a third university. Why should we do that when we have failed to maintain these two universities, UNZA and CBU? Now, we want a third one. Where are we going to find money to run this university? Every time the university is closed, this country is let down. That is very bad and it shows that the attention our Government is giving to the education sector is not good. Therefore, I do not support this Government’s idea of opening new universities when they are failing to maintain the two beautiful universities that we have in this country.

Professor Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hanjika!

Mrs Musokotwane: Bulela!

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs (Professor Phiri): Mr Speaker, before I give reasons for supporting the Motion on the Floor of the House, in my first major debate, let me, first of all, join some of the hon. Members of this House by congratulating you, on a job well-done. This extends to the Deputy Speaker, the Clerk and all the staff of the National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, I also wish to pay tribute to His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for his extremely inspiring and visionary speech on Zambia’s social economic development agenda.

The speeches that were delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and His Excellency, the President, clearly confirms that this New Deal Administration is the Government of the people and for the people. It is a Government which, as many hon. Members have already stated, means well.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Phiri: Mr Speaker, my thanks also go to several hon. Members of this august House for not only supporting Hon. Magande’s meritorious budget speech, and by extension, the 2008 Budget, but have also articulated well on some of the major achievements made by the New Deal Administration to date. But, Sir, there are a handful of hon. Members on your Left who seem to have difficulties in seeing the obvious successes of this Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Phiri: The reason for this is simple. They fail or deliberately ignore to examine such issues …


Mr Speaker: Order!

Professor Phiri: … from a holistic point of view in the context of Zambia’s historical dimension.

Mr Speaker, as a reminder to those doubting Thomases, let me echo what some of the hon. Members have already alluded to. For the sake of simplicity, we will have to use an analogy. Let us, once again, imagine that Zambia as a country and its people is a patient. How was the health condition of this patient in the past, at the moment and how will it be in the future?

Sir, let us briefly look at the history of this patient as follows: before independence, between 1964 and beginning of the 1980s, mid 1980s to 1990, from 1991 to 2001 and from 2002 to 2008.

Firstly, before independence, Zambia, as a patient, suffered many forms of diseases such as absence of a well-defined destine, lack of adequate schools, absence of institutions of higher learning, inadequate health facilities, roads and overall development of the country. The country also lacked skilled labour force and in short, the patient was chronically ill.

Secondly, during the period 1964 to early 1980s, following the attainment of Independence, the patient rapidly recovered with its wealth from the copper mines, in particular, as well as other factors. The patient received an antidote in form of massive construction of schools, two universities, hospitals, clinics, roads, railway line, air transport, electric power stations, massive public buildings and many more.

In the area of human resource, hundreds of academicians, scientists, engineers, technicians, administrators and many others were trained. This was a period of major recovery of this patient whose dignity and destiny was unquestioned.

Sir, in the mid 1980s and 1990, following the decline of copper prices, heavy reliance on mono-economy, that is mining, large-scale cumulative foreign debts, Zambia, as a patient, began to experience a lot of pains such as acute shortages of goods and services and unemployment as well as other diseases. The patient hoped that the new Government which ushered in, in 1991 would provide some relief.

Mr Speaker, 1991 to 2001, during the period under review, instead of receiving the anticipated cure, the patient not only became worse, but was also actually, being strangled. The patient, who was, at least, limping about before, was compelled to intensive care unit. The patient eventually went into coma.

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Professor Phiri: What happened during this period? While there were a few notable positive achievements such as the introduction of the liberalised economy, unfortunately, to a large measure, several types of diseases mushroomed which included the following:

(a) development of infrastructure in form of roads infrastructure almost came to a stand still;

(b) mining and other public infrastructure where sold at give away prices with extremely lopsided tax agreements against the Zambian people;

(c) agricultural and other major forms of social economic development were practically abandoned; and

(d) conditions of our schools, universities, health facilities, roads, etc, became worse.

Mr Speaker, for instance, UNZA which was at one time almost a five-star institution became a sorry site. A large number of its qualified scientists and academicians migrated to neighbouring countries.

Sir, on top of all these, the patient basically received a massive doze of cancer. The cancer of nichekeloko or giving me a piece. That is, corruption.

Hon. Opposition Members: MMD!

Professor Phiri: Mr Speaker, during this period, according to some newspaper indications at the time, in particular The Post Newspaper, Zambia became a play ground of thieves and crooks. Corruption during this period appeared to have been the order of the day.

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Minister will not use the phrase like, “thieves and crooks.” These are unparliamentary words.

Professor Phiri: Mr Speaker, I am sorry for that. I substitute the words, “thieves and crooks” with “dishonest persons and plunderers.” Corruption during this period appeared to have been the order of the day.


Professor Phiri: Mr Speaker, from 2002 to 2008 entered Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, and his New Deal team…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Phiri: …with tears in their eyes, they set to work on reviving the patient from near death. The patient is now out of the hospital and is able to walk with a lot of dignity even though it will take sometime to be out of the Anti-Retrovirals (ARVs). The patient clearly sees and believes that it is a matter of time before most of the diseases are cured. This new team has brought about economic recovery. It has started reconstruction of infrastructure in form of schools, institutions of higher learning, roads and health facilities. Mining, agriculture and tourism industries are on full recovery…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Phiri: … while that cancer of corruption is being addressed. Those dishonest persons are still around but their play ground seems to be narrowing.

Mr Speaker, if some hon. Members of this House cannot envisage the commitment and efforts which this New Deal Government has and is making towards addressing the needs and aspirations of its people, then forgive them for their historical impotency.


Professor Phiri: Mr Speaker, what is important to note is that the 2008 Budget and indeed the overall social economic position of this New Deal Government does not mean that everything has been addressed. Resolving the massive problems our country is facing which were mainly inherited by this New Deal Government will take time. However, progress has been made to a large measure.

Mr Speaker, it is also important to note that the solution to our problems does not only lie in the provision of funds but a combination of other factors such as changing attitude that is working culture particularly, with regard to addressing corrupt practices of all Zambians and adoption of more innovative ideas and a spice of good will and constructive criticisms from hon. Members on your left.


Professor Phiri: Mr Speaker, I wish to end by presenting a few remarks under the theme, “some thoughts on defeating poverty in rural areas in the context of rooming climate change.” The Government’s commitment towards rural poverty alleviation is clear. For example, in his speech, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning indicated that poverty will be addressed through strategies such as raising higher levels of economic growth of the country, rehabilitation of road network, continuation with Fertiliser Support Programme as well as through Rural Electrification Programme.

Mr Speaker, I have no doubt that the programmes outlined above would yield fruit in due course. However, because of climate change, current strategies for rural poverty alleviation face special challenges which need to be addressed. For example, it may be imperative to intensify the following:

(i) Crop diversity;

(ii) Introduction of bio-fuels;

(iii) Intensification of Rural Water Development;

(iv) Encouraging Rural Based Income Generation Projects; and

(v) Accelerating other sustainable appropriate technologies.

Mr Speaker, on crop diversity, on the issue of climate change, we should assume that variations in climatic patterns will continue in the foreseeable future. We should therefore, expect either heavy rains as is the case this season, leading to floods or little rainfall leading to drought. With the expected variations, it is obvious that future food security in rural areas will be compromised unless something is done. One form of adaptation to this climate change is for the people in rural areas to diversify crop production.

Sir, for example, in Kapoche Constituency, overdependence on maize production based on artificial fertilisers is not only unsustainable but is a sure guarantee of food insecurity in the future.


Professor  Phiri: This is so because misapplication of fertiliser…


Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair would like to follow the debate by the hon. Deputy Minister of Foreign Affairs. With so much talking, I cannot do that. He may continue.

Professor Phiri: Mr Speaker, this is so because misapplication of fertilisers has largely destroyed some soil fertility meaning that absence of fertiliser equals little crop yield. During the current 2008 season, my recent visit to the constituency revealed that the maize production will be down by between 50 per cent to 60 per cent due to heavy rains and lack of adequate fertilisers. Severe food shortage is therefore expected. Introduction of other crops such as cassava and millet is, therefore, a must for Kapoche while moving towards organic manure for maize production need to be encouraged. A paradigm shift in agriculture is a must if poverty is to be defeated in the contest of climate change.

Mr Speaker, on Bio-fuel, His Excellency the President also mentioned the need to develop bio-fuels. In this area, Jatropha, a plant whose seed could be processed into bio-diesel could be tapped. I believe that Jatropha has a huge potential for poverty alleviation for the rural population such as in the Kapoche Constituency which already has plenty of this plant. The good thing about this plant is that it can withstand climatic variations. The plant also grows greatly well in poor soils. Thus appropriate integration of this plant into rural economy at the village level could not only guarantee extra income but could be an answer to addressing rapid deforestation which is occurring at rapid rate as a result of the cutting of trees for wood and fuel.

Mr Speaker, bio-diesel could be used as fuel for cooking in rural areas as well as stock feed for other value addition products.

Sir, in addition, with regard to water management, the President mentioned that the Government’s commitment towards dam construction countrywide is a matter of necessity. The 2008 Budget also made provisions for water and sanitation development. This deserves a pat on the back.

Mr Speaker, Zambia is among the top ten countries in the world with most fresh water supply and yet as other hon. Members have already indicated, much of it either goes to waste or is untapped. A network of small dams in both rural and surrounding urban areas will not only enhance economic development but would in part be an answer to water shortage and control of floods arising out of climatic change.

Mr Sing’ombe: Talk about foreign affairs matters!

Professor Phiri: Mr Speaker, lessons in water management in countries such as Namibia, which is an arid country, and Iran as well as elsewhere could be employed to enhance water management in our country. It is our hope that the President’s speech as well as the Government’s commitment to the Fifth National Development Plan, Vision 2030, and indeed, the 2008 Budget would be fully implemented for the benefit of the people of Zambia in the area of water management.

Mr Speaker, because of time, I would just like to indicate that there could be a lot of income generation projects which we could encourage in rural areas that could assist households in rural areas to have extra income to off-set climate change. The other point is that appropriate technologies such as solar and wind power could be encouraged because these can also give us energy in situations of negative climate changes.

Mr Speaker, to conclude, as part of the continued Government’s efforts in addressing rural poverty, it may be necessary to set aside extra funding for specifically addressing issues of anticipated negative climate change, meaning that integrated projects intended to address the same could be reflected in the national Budget. In addition to the above, it maybe necessary to set aside substantial amounts of funds which would take care of anticipated disasters under the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU).

Mr Speaker, it is encouraging to note that most of what has been outlined above is already in place. Thus, mere acceleration of the same will be required due to the anticipated negative impact of climate change.

Mr Speaker, I totally agree with Hon. Magande’s concluding statement and I quote:

“For the first time in a generation, we stand today, with our destiny truly in our own hands”.

Mr Speaker, we had to a large measure lost our destiny before. Sometime ago, somebody declared that Zambia could be heaven on earth. Sir, with its massive resources, and wonderful people, this observation is not far fetched.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, may I start by joining the hon. Members who have spoken before me in congratulating the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on the presentation of this year’s Budget.

Mr Speaker, the theme of this year’s Budget makes a lot of sense in so far as it talks of Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation. It is important to start by congratulating Government on the bold move they have taken, though, belatedly in ensuring that they get reasonable contribution from investments in the mining sector.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, it important that all of us realise that God created Zambia for Zambians, not by accident. God created America for Americans and India for Indians, and in his wisdom, God gave them all the necessary wealth to sustain them.

Mr Speaker, we find ourselves in a situation …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[Mr SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Speaker: Order! As there is no quorum, I suspend business for five minutes.

Business was suspended from 1630 hours until 1635 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Speaker: Order! When I suspend business for fifteen minutes, I mean exactly that. As you can all see, you are late for five minutes and the business of debating and eventually passing the budget is extremely important. This is one of the core businesses of this House, to debate and approve the budget. Therefore, every minute must be dedicated to this important activity without which this country cannot develop.

I listen to you talk about lack of schools, roads, hospitals and other important facilities and yet, you come late after tea break. Government side, this is your budget to defend, therefore, you must be the first to arrive in this House.

Will the hon. Member for Chasefu continue, please.

Mr C. B. K. Banda: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying, Zambia, our country is endowed with a lot of natural resources and mineral wealth. Primarily, this wealth is supposed to be exploited for the benefits of the Zambians.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. B. B. Banda: This does not mean that we are against foreign investment. This country has received foreign investors with both hands. What we are vehemently opposed to is a situation where our brothers and sisters who have come into this country as investors are unwilling to share the wealth which they are getting from this country.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, this is the problem and I am therefore, congratulating without any hesitation Government on having taken a bold move and decision to ensure that the wealth which these investors are creating and enjoying in our country is equitably shared.

 Hon. Members: Hear. Hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, I get increasingly saddened when I hear investors trying to justify the greed of not sharing mineral wealth equitably. In my view, this Government is not saying they want to take everything from the investors. All they are saying is that Zambians deserve a share of the mineral wealth. It is only people who are selfish and greedy that will refuse to share the wealth.

Sir, I know as a matter of fact that even the federation of Rhodesia and Nyasaland, the mineral wealth from this country was used to develop Zimbabwe, Southern Rhodesia then. It is a fact and statistics are there to show. Why should we be shy to get a fair share from our mineral wealth? It is only Zambians who are unpatriotic that will support the position taken by mining companies, therefore, my appeal to hon. Members is that this is an issue that is non-partisan. It is an issue that you as hon. Members must advocate.

Sir, we are all complaining about lack of development in our respective constituencies and the answer from Government is that the resource basket is limited. Now with this bold move which Government has taken, we hope and expect that Government will have a little more in their resource basket. It is only from that money that will be in the basket that we will have development in our respective constituencies. So, Sir, without belabouring the point, the measures taken by Government in my view are welcome, well intentioned and Government should not feel ashamed to implement them to the latter. I can assure you that we will support you on these measures.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, as a Member who represents a rural constituency, I asked myself a few questions after the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning delivered his Budget Speech. The question was, what is in it for Chasefu Constituency in this budget.

 Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, I would like to challenge each one of you hon. Members to ask yourselves what is in this budget for your constituency. Basically, there is nothing.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear. Hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, speaking for Chasefu Constituency, I can cite the rehabilitation of one dam, salaries which will be paid to teachers and beyond that there is nothing. My appeal to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is that in future and for the future, try to look at constituencies in your effort to equitably distribute this wealth.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr C. K. B. Banda: We are supporting you on your measures to raise more revenue and you should also support us in equitable distribution of the resources. I can assure that it is shameful for us to go back to our constituencies with no answer to many problems which our constituents raise to us. Therefore, hon. Minister for the future, try to ensure that there is equitable distribution of the scarce resources.

Sir, having said that, I want to comment on certain parts of the budget because I note that the imports into the country increased at a high rate of 37.4 per cent largely because of the investment in the mining sector.

Mr Speaker, what I have noted from the speech is that there has been a drastic reduction in our balance of payments from a positive US $821 million in 2006 to US $266.3 million in 2007. To me, the question that come to mind almost immediately is that why the drastic reduction? Is there a leakage? If there is a leakage, where is it?

Hon. Minister, you said that…

Mr Speaker: Order! Address the Chair.

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minster said that the imports increased largely because of investment in the mining sector. Now, if the mining sector has contributed, why is there this leakage? Hon. Minister, my submission is that this leakage…

 Mr Speaker: Order! Would you please address the Chair.

 You may continue.

Mr C. K. B. Banda: I thank you, for your guidance, Mr Speaker.

 Mr Speaker, this leakage has occurred because of the following. Sir, we know that most of the investors in the mining sectors are borrowing from local banking institutions and use this money from our banks to import machinery into this country. Yet, on the other hand, all he earnings from the operations in country are externalised.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, if they bring back anything in the country, it is only a proportion which by and large caters for administrative costs. This is the reason why there is this leakage and I am appealing to you to try to look at this leakage. I am not an economist, but I can see that there is something wrong there.

Sir, I would like to also make a comment on external debt.  Mr Speaker, after the debt write-off in 2005, Zambia remained with approximately US$625 million in foreign debt. Two years down the road, we have reached US$2,0245.2 million in debts. I would like to submit that at this rate, Zambia will reach her pre-write-off level of US$7 billion in the next four years.

 Mr Speaker, many Zambians welcomed the foreign debt write-off that the nation received in 2005, but they were quick to point out that Zambia as a country had a weak production base to support a debt free economy. Truthfully, this has turned to be true. It seems that the major investments that have taken place since privatization have not led to strengthening the production base of our nation in a manner that supports a strong economy in the long term.

Mr Speaker, the budget shows that out of US$2,035.2 million as at December 2007, US $980.7 million or 48 per cent is owed by private organisation. Sir, may the hon. Minister clarify this? I hope we are not continuing to guarantee debt by mining companies like we did with the Banani Group of Companies in Luanshya. Mining companies must borrow and repay on their own without drawing the nation in their debts.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: These companies make huge profits and they do not need the Government to protect them. Mr Speaker, Government resources must be directed at raising the stakes of our nationals in the economy and reduce poverty which now stands at 68 per cent nationally and up to 80 per cent in rural Zambia. Can the hon. Minister explain the presence of private debt in our national external debt and how it arose and how it will be liquidated?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, on domestic debt, I wish to state that the people of Zambia are happy to hear that finally, their Government has decided to liquidate the debt to the Pension Fund. Hopefully the humiliation that our retirees continue to suffer will come to an end. However, the value of pension receipts has drastically dropped. Even at the upper end of single digit inflation that Zambia has recorded, our people’s pension continues to lose value. The challenge, therefore, for the hon. Minister is not just to repay the arrears and be current, but equally important is to index the pension receipts to annual inflation rate. Allow me to emphasise this point. The challenge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has is to ensure that he indexes the pension receipts to the annual inflation rate. This will mean that at the end of the day, the receipt will be meaningful. As it is, the losers are pensioners.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Sir, the current local debt to suppliers of goods and services stands at K8,885.5 billion or 65 per cent of the total 2008 Budget. If you add the current external debt of US$2,035.2 million, the current budget for 2008 and half of 2009 Budget at current level is already spent. However, the real implication should be seen in failure to create jobs or improve the quality of services caused by Government’s failure to pay local suppliers on time. Without money, the operations of the suppliers are crippled, therefore, we must not be surprised when we see our economy growing at less than 10 per cent per annum.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Some of our neighbours such as Angola are growing at a higher rate than ourselves. What is the problem …

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: … if one had to ask?

Similarly, our nationals are losing money by keeping it in the banks as most of these banks are paying less than 5 per cent interest on savings and yet the banks are charging interest on loans at rates higher than 20 per cent. Inflation stands at 8.9 per cent. It goes without saying that people are just keeping money in the banks so that the Government and banks can play with their money. Government cannot live on the excuse of lack of co-operation from banks. Surely, our people deserve better than this. The Bank of Zambia must act with dispatch on this. If need be, legislation must be brought to this House in order to regulate the conduct of banks in a liberalised economy such as ours.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, on poverty …

Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: … I wish to say that agriculture in Chasefu Constituency is a source of livelihood of the people, so is the situation in many parts of this country. The agriculture sector has only grown by 2.8 per cent in 2007. Sir, there is need to rationalise investment in agriculture and in this regard, I would like to appeal to Government to consult the people who originally designed the Agriculture Support Programme (ASP) in 1999. If you did that, you will get a lot of positive suggestions which they had in mind when they created that programme.

Sir, we must support agriculture for a purpose; namely to produce food so that our people do not go hungry, …

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: … to earn foreign exchange and to create jobs in order to improve the lives of our people.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Unless we remain focussed, the results will continue to be poor regardless of the money invested in the agricultural sector.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: We should, therefore, I am saying “we” because all of us are responsible. We should, therefore, not be surprised to see poverty levels increasing to 80 per cent in rural areas which largely depend on agriculture.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Mr Speaker, it goes without saying that the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) has failed.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: If this Government has failed to successfully implement this well meaning programme, why do they not consider the simplest way out to subsidise the cost of fertiliser? So that this fertiliser is made available to the people cheaply instead of using this system which has failed to produce the desired results.

Mr Speaker, I submit that this Government should pay attention to this because as it is now, there is nothing in terms of growth.

Mr I. Banda: Yowoya!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: A short while ago we were informed that in Eastern Province we had the highest rate of pupils who failed to sit for examination. That is evidence of poverty levels in the province. This Government boasts of having boosted agricultural production to the contrary.

In Lundazi District, most of the maize that was sold in Lundazi came from Malawi. In Kapoche, the maize that was sold in Kapoche came from Mozambique. The same situation applies to Chadiza. If you look at your statistics, hon. Members, you will be saying that Eastern province had a bumper harvest. To the contrary, we did not have a bumper harvest in Eastern province. Mr Speaker, my appeal to this Government is that the people in Eastern Province deserve relief food.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. Banda: Do not deny them food because of false statistics.

Mr Ngoma: Repeat that one!

Mr C. K. Banda: The people of Eastern Province deserve relief food.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Do not deny them relief food on the basis of false statistics which have been given to you by the Food Reserve Agency (FRA).

With these few words, Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, I am grateful to be afforded this opportunity to add my voice to many who have spoken on this important subject of our budget. I must confess that as I sat here and looking up there where there were children sitting with their teachers, one hon. Member confessed that during his time as a teacher he was a dishonest one …


Mr Mulongoti: … because if he was not party to what he called cheating, he could not have been extolling the fact that that is what is prevalent now.

Mr Speaker: Order! I ruled that out of order, withdraw the word cheating.

Mr Mulongoti: I will withdraw, Mr Speaker. However, I am ashamed of what happened as I see the children with their teachers leaving.


Mr Mulongoti: I do hope that next time, we will be spared the agony of listening to those confessions.


Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, two hon. Members have sent notes to me to tell me that they were in court and they have won their judgement on the application for an injunction. This is a great day for democracy.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, in line with that, I would like to quote what His Excellency the President said when he opened the National Constitution Conference (NCC) in support of democracy. He said,

“It gives me great pleasure and honour to be afforded this opportunity to address this important body of men and women, who have been carefully chosen to represent various levels of our citizenry, who are charged with responsibility to discuss and adopt a Draft Republican Constitution for presentation to Parliament for enactment. This is a solemn and privileged responsibility which must be discharged by all of you in a very responsible, objective and non-partisan and patriotic manner, bearing in mind that in this excise the interest of our nation are paramount to anything else. This exercise is not about Opposition political parties versus MMD and its Government or Opposition political parties, certain churches and civil society organisation versus Levy Patrick Mwanawasa. If we approach this task in such an attitude, then we will hurt the national interest because ruling political parties, Governments and Presidents come and go. We must make a document which, to use common parlance will stand the test of time. A document which any Government or President will find acceptable to work with and a useful guide in the discharge of the national duty, a document which will protect the rights of the people individually and severally.

I am happy to note that our people are increasingly becoming conscious of their democratic rights. This is demonstrated by the way they criticise us when they perceive that we have done something wrong.

This is the first time since our independence in 1964 that we have ushered in a dialogue or consultative process of this magnitude in Constitution making. We should be proud of that fact, that true to its initial promise in 2001, the Government is delivering on providing governance founded on democratic principles of Government of the people, by the people for the people.”

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I have been reading this just to sustain my argument for reasons why Government is there to provide money for the NCC.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Yesterday, when the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning was reading a list of people, who went to make submissions to the budget process, I did not hear a single name of any hon. Member. The question I ask is, at what point do you as hon. Members participate in the making of the budget. These are the vacuums, we are saying let us go and sit at the NCC and amend.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Now, if you are refusing to come to the NCC to take care of such vacuums, what are you saying to the country? Do you want to remain spectators? Do you want to remain people who come to this House and begin to bemoan the fact that from Chasefu Constituency, you cannot see any bit that is for Chasefu Constituency.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: We should make a Constitution that will allow you an opportunity, as a hon. Member to go in, sit and say for my constituency I am expecting this. Currently, as a situation is, all we can hear is when the budget is brought to the House, the hon. Members bemoaning the absence of support to their constituencies.

Mr Kanyanyamina: Nomba tamwaishiba.

Mr Mulongoti: I want to urge hon. Members that the reason this NCC is there is to empower us.

Dr Katema: Yes, to empower your pockets.

Mr Mulongoti: Unless you are fast asleep, you will wake up one day to discover that we have enacted for you a Constitution that will be helpful because you did not want to help yourself.

Hon. Members: It is true.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, this budget is progressive because it provides resources in all the sectors of our economy, except that if you cannot find time to read it carefully and appreciate the opportunities that are in this budget, you cannot see them. The Government has provided money, for instance, to reduce domestic debt. What is the implication of this? The implication of this is that the investor or the business person in Zambia will be paying money which they can re-invest in the economy. Unless you can see where your opportunities lie, you will continue to ask Government to provide.

The problem I see is that even Members from rural areas will come and stand up here and say there is so much poverty where they are coming from. Now, poverty is relative. What do I mean? If you went to my village and told my mother that she is a poor person, you will have a fight. What do you mean when you say people in the rural areas are poor? Why are you using your criteria to judge their status?

Hon. Government Member: Tell them.

Mr Mulongoti: The people who live in my village are contented with their way of life.


Mr Mulongoti: If all of a sudden hon. Members - I will give you an example that there has been a cry that you must electrify the chief’s palaces. Do you know the outcome of that? The Government responded and took electricity to the palaces but in the end it was discovered that the chiefs were not able to meet electricity bills.

Mr Magande: Yes.

Mr Mulongoti: We should understand that when you empower people consider the fact that there are implications. When you are in a hurry, for instance, to take power and put electrical pumps and boreholes, people will appreciate that in the beginning, but later on when they discover that they have to pay for the power to get that water pumped from the ground, they will not appreciate what you have done. You will have introduced something in their lives which you think will have added value, but you have created a problem in their lives. Therefore, we have to find a way of taking technology which is relative, technology which can be sustained and appreciated on the long term basis. When you come and moan the fact that there is poverty in the rural areas, we would like to hear suggestions from you on how that poverty can be mitigated and what kind of poverty you are talking about.

Mr Speaker, I know coming to Parliament and spending time at the motel, having six square meals a day …


Mr Mulongoti: … and you go back and claim that there is so much poverty you see when you go back, it is not fair to the people who live happily in those villages.

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.


Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I rise on a point of order on the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services who sometimes debates well but today I do not know what has gone wrong. I cannot even explain it.  Is he in order to imply that there are six square meals at the National Assembly Motel for hon. Members …


Mr Muntanga: … and yet, when you look at some of us, we come from our own homes where we eat better than at the motel?


Mr Muntanga: Is he in order to imply this when there are only three meals, with a poor breakfast which cannot be compared with what we eat in our homes?

Mr Speaker: Order! The point of order that has been raised by the hon. Member for Kalomo reminds me to tell hon. Members not to debate themselves. However, since this matter of meals at the motel has been referred to, the Chair would require the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services to count how often the hon. Members have their meals at the motel up to 1800 hours.


Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your counsel. I am aware that this premise is part of the motel because it is Parliament precincts. We have two breaks here, breakfast at Parliament Motel, lunch and dinner plus snacks in the middle.


Mr Mulongoti: Sir, having justified my statement, I would like to proceed by reading another statement made by His Excellency when he addressed a council in the United States of America. He said:

“My country is richly endowed with many natural resources. There is, for instance, good arable land for both extensive and intensive cultivation of various crops. Some 56 per cent of the total land mass of 752,612 square kilometres is still available for agricultural production. The country also has good climate and about 40 per cent of the water resources of the Southern African region are found in my country thereby creating huge irrigation potential.

Zambia is a major source of minerals such as copper, zinc, lead, cobalt, uranium and precious metals and stones. There are also strong indications that the country may also have oil deposits and plans are underway on how we can co-operate with private sector to exploit this resource.

All these resources I have mentioned are waiting to be exploited.”

The question is, to be exploited by whom?

Hon. Opposition Members: Foreigners.

Mr Mulongoti: Now, if you leave a vacuum and you are not ready to invest, yes, you are creating an opportunity for foreigners to come and invest. The world is not stagnant and unless as Zambians we can take up the challenge of exploiting these resources, some people will come in and do the some. Since the Citizens Economic Empowerment Act was enacted, I do not know how many of us have gone to our constituencies to educate our people on the benefits in this Act. All we can do is cry that the foreigners are coming. However, what does the Law say? It says that a foreigner cannot come here and invest without the participation of indigenous citizens. What are we doing? Do you think all those people who are coming into Zambia are doing so during the night? They are coming in during the day and are doing the registration of their companies through the registrar’s office.

Information on the investors that are coming is available at the Zambia Development Agency. We hear that delegations of investors are in Zambia. What do we do? We just watch and wonder what they are here for. They are looking for investment opportunities. Why do we not make ourselves available to partner with these people who come rather than bemoan the fact that they have brought their money here? At the end of the day, as long as we remain spectators, we will see other citizens begin to prosper and in the end we will begin to accuse them of doing that which is not right.

Hon. Muntanga, in that traditional farm of yours …

Mr Muntanga: Be very careful.

Mr Mulongoti: … you are free to partner with these investors who come because they are looking for partners. We want to see your farm grow.

Mr Speaker, this Budget as presented, has created opportunities, indeed, for those who are alert and sharp. The Budget on its own as a document, unless it is operationalised and unless we the leaders, can interpret what is contained in the Budget, we will have ourselves to blame. I was asking myself how many of us have read this Budget and have understood its implications. The majority of us have seen it as a document and it ends there. We have gone back to our constituencies but I do not know whether we had the opportunity to discuss with our constituents the contents of the Budget. It is important that we do that because this Budget is not for us but for the country.

Every year, we hear of only the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, his deputy and other officers from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning going to talk to the business community and other stakeholders about the Budget. What about us? We are the people who are going to approve and are affected by this Budget and yet, we do not have an opportunity to go out and tell our constituents about it. Maybe we are sometimes shy to ask if we do not understand. Maybe it must be part of the programme that after the presentation of the Budget the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning must hold a workshop to help those of us who are shy to appreciate the implications of the Budget.

Mr Speaker, good suggestions come, like I heard the hon. Member for Chasefu saying that subsidies to our farmers are not appropriately done and we must instead take all that money to the procurement of fertilizer. Mr Speaker, there are a lot of people in here who do not even know what to do in cases, for instance, of disasters. If you ask them who the head of disaster management in their districts is, they do not know. They would rather come to the Vice-President’s Office and Parliament to mourn and yet the governance structures provide that at every district there is a Government officer who heads a disaster management unit.

There are a lot of hon. Members who have problems with their schools such as blown-off roofs. They will not do anything until they come to Parliament to bemoan the fact that a roof was blown-off seven years ago and yet, in the Ministry of Education there is a fund used for such purposes. You have to go there and get it.

Hon. Kakoma came and stood on the Floor of the House to bemoan the fact that maize that was taken to his constituency was rotting in the sheds, as if nobody wanted to eat it. The people of your constituency are looking for leadership from you. They are not looking for a cry baby but a leader …


Mr Mulongoti: … and I hope that when you become an oil Sheik, you will not forget your people. Hon. Kakoma, it was sad to hear you say that you watched maize rotting.


Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Minister will address the Chair.


Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I am appealing to the people of his constituency to reconsider and that next time they are looking for a leader, they should look elsewhere.


Mr Kakoma: On a point of order, Sir!


Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services in order to continue talking about me when I am innocently seated and listening to one of his waste debates …


Mr Kakoma: … when in fact, his Government said that it does not have any money to redistribute the food to the people of Zambezi West and yet they were keeping K900 billion in the bank unutilised. They were failing to find small amounts of money to redistribute the food from the Boma to the constituency in Zambezi West?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! First of all, the Chair hereby protects the hon. Member for Zambezi West from being included in the debate of the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services. Having said that, I also wish to remind the hon. Member for Zambezi West that I heard him passing quite attractive running commentaries while seated while the hon. Minister was debating, so the hon. Minister was defending himself.


Mr Speaker: However, as debate continues, the hon. Minister will reply on these matters on behalf of the Executive.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, let me quickly move on to the other subject of people condemning investors. There is a habit in some of our hon. Members to come here and condemn investors but when they go back to their constituencies they are busy reaping benefits from the same investors. This is unacceptable.

Mr Speaker, there are hon. Members whom, when we were allowing investors to invest in one mine on the Copperbelt said it was a mistake we were making. Today they are happily supplying to that mine.

Mr Kambwili: Aah!

Mr Mulongoti: And they have become so greedy that they are harassing anyone around who wants to supply to the same mine.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, it is not right to speak from both sides of your mouth.


Mr Mulongoti: Use one so that we hear what you mean. Do not say something here, and when you go back you whisper something else to the investors.

Mr Kambwili interjected.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, another hon. Member was talking about his obsession for fighting corruption. He continued to say that when in this House he ran away from two motions and he is in a habit of running away when I am about to debate.


Mr Mulongoti: I do not know how we are going to cage him. I would have said much more if he was sitting around. This also goes for his uncle who is not here either.


Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to be able to contribute to the debate on the motion. I have been indicating for the last four days, and I thank God today that you have caught my eye


Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, in my debate, I will be very advisory to the Executive and I beg that they will listen and not interject me. I mean well for them.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, when a national Budget is being discussed, they must understand that we are talking about a national Budget. We are not talking about a constituency budget or family budget. We are talking about the national Budget and the revenues that will be raised belong to the state. The Executive is privileged to superintend on the funds of the nation. It is not their money.


Mr L. J. Mulenga: I have heard and carefully listened from my brothers from Eastern Province who have been complaining that we have resources and yet we are supporting Southern Province, that is misconception and it is not being national.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: The money that is raised in the nation is meant for all Zambians irrespective of their political party, religion, and tribe or where they come from, whether they are White, Green or Yellow.


Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker we are discussing the 2008 Budget. The question that comes in mind as a patriotic Zambian is, what parameter does the Executive use to arrive at the revenue base against expenditure? I have noted and seen with sadness that what is happening is just them using excel, just to put 5 per cent or 10 per cent minus looking at the needs of the people.

Mr Speaker, that brings me to a point of how much we love each other as Zambians, when are we going to start loving each other, when are we going to be proud of this nation, when are we going to put that into motion so that when we sing the National Anthem saying, ‘Proud and Free’ we mean what we say. We need to love each other and recognise each other as Zambians. We must not be a people that must be in a pulling effect system whereby if one person is doing very well, I must bring him down, or if the other one is doing so well, he must come down. That is incorrect. We need to be national and bring meaningful development.

Mr Speaker, I have refused to accept that Zambia is a poor nation. Zambia is a rich nation, what is poor about us is implementation. I want the Executive to listen extremely well.

Mr Speaker, when you look at the civil servants and the Executive, what is the linkage between them? How do they cooperate in their work? We get all reports from the Auditor-General’s Office that funds have been misapplied and so forth. Where is the Executive? There is something wrong in the way the Executive cooperates with the civil servants.

Mr Speaker, I have listened very carefully in this House from various debaters and one of the things that has come out clearly is that there is dishonesty in the way the civil servants execute and implement our Budget. I am not saying the Executive Budget, I am talking about the national budget which is our Budget.

Dr Katema: Ebaume aba!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: The controlling officers, the directors and everybody involved in the implementation of the Budget leave much to be desired.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: They leave much to be desired. I wish they could also become Zambians as they execute the Budget.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Let them become Zambians. The greediness that has crept in this nation is worrying. I am worried for my grandchildren, my friends and my family as to whether they will have anything to talk about Zambia.

Mr Speaker, I would like to appeal to the Executive to put civil servants in line to ensure that this Budget that we are discussing is properly implemented regardless of its flaws. I said earlier, that today, I am an advisor. I am just giving free consultancy to the Executive.


Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, when you plan, it must not end there. It is not enough to just plan. The most important thing is implementation. Implementation is extremely critical in what we do. In our lives we have planed but not achieved anything. Can we ensure, as we plan, that we implement what we have planned? It is not enough to just plan and go to sleep. We must be able to implement because implementation does not end at just releasing money. You must see where the money is going and how that money is being utilised. It is critical that money, when released, must be monitored, evaluated and reported so that everybody else can see.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: The Executive usually comes up with very nice policy statements to the effect that they shall advertise to the public on how funds are being utilised and accounted for.

Hon. Opposition Member: Nothing!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I want to look at last year. How many times did they do it? If they did it, how many follow-ups were made to the effect that money was not accounted for?

Mr Speaker, I come from the accounting world. Audits are very good but however, I tend to wonder why audits are there. Two years down the road, you are auditing. What is this audit for when money has already been spent? Again, it takes so many years for anything to be executed through our legal system which is rather slow. I wish it could be expedient.

Hon. Opposition Member: Give advice.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, let me move on to social sectors. My father was a simple miner in Luanshya. I went to school because of copper.

Hon. Government Member: You were spoilt.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: That is what got me to where I am today. It is copper that built even this building and all the roads. Every parastatal company was built because of copper.

Sir, when I was a young boy in Luanshya, it was very good because there were street lights in all the townships. The road network was extremely good. Today, I cry when I go back to Luanshya, just as I cry when I go back to my constituency which is also a mining town.

Mr Speaker, I take exception that our friends whom we have embraced to develop our natural resources are not being humane. They must become humane by supporting this nation and not supporting the MMD, …

Hon. Members: No!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: … the Patriotic Front or the UPND, but they should be supporting Zambia.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: They must be humane in the decisions that they make. I am praying for them. It is true that even what we have said we must collect from them is inadequate. However, we have just said that for now, can they show responsibility …

Hon. Opposition Member: Ebwaume ubo!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: … and commitment to the love of this nation. Zambia is a nation that needs to develop and it has a lot of resources which we cannot just sit on and bemoan as Hon. Mulongoti was saying. It is incorrect hon. Minister. You must provide leadership. You must encourage Zambians to become responsible.

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member will address the Chair.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Thank you Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Member: Go back.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Any government in power has a responsibility to motivate and encourage people to a point where they begin to see the potential within themselves.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: It is the responsibility of the Executive. That is why they are elected. They have to show responsibility by motivating and encouraging the nationals so that they begin to see the potential in themselves.

Why do we have all this inertia? Why do we have all these problems? The problem could be because they have not told the people what ought to be done. A great leader is one who will show someone where to go and drink water from.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, when we look at the societies we are coming from – let me look at Kwacha because even the Budget is in Kwacha.


Mr L. J. Mulenga: The Budget is in Kwacha and named after my constituency. I want them to understand that Kwacha is significant in the history of Zambia and I am proud of that.


Mr L. J. Mulenga: All the freedom fighters you can talk about lived in Kwacha.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: After having sponsored all our founding fathers that fought for the Independence of this nation, you have left Kwacha Township without toilets up to now.


Mr Speaker: Order! The Hon. Member will discuss the matter of toilets in the council.


Mr Speaker: May you move on to the next subject.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, what I was saying was that we need a fair distribution of wealth. In coming to that, I would like to give free consultancy again to the Executive. Let us start constituency Budget process so that no one feels neglected at all.

Hon. Opposition Member: Magande uleumfwa?

Mr L. J. Mulenga: We need to look at the constituency level so that our distribution of wealth is equal. I also want to join voices from other fellow debaters that have spoken on the increase of Constituency Development fund (CDF).
Mr Speaker, that is the only channel through which we can help our constituencies develop and the Executive to look good. We need to seriously consider increasing CDF. I hope the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is listening. I will not tell him how much because I understand what could be limitations, but I wish he could consider that.

Mr Speaker, I would like to talk about agriculture because I am also a farmer.


Mr L. J. Mulenga: Sir, the reduction of the agriculture budget allocation from 8.8 per cent last year, to 5.8 per cent this year, is not good enough in terms poverty reduction because a lot of our people depend on agriculture. I came late because I came from my farm, in case you do not know where my farm is, it is opposite Chaminuka Lodge.

Mr Speaker, when I was coming from the farm, I saw the maize for the peasant farmers and how yellow it has turned because this Government decided to send urea fertiliser which is for top dressing instead of D-compound which is basal dressing.


Mr L. J. Mulenga: It is bad. I wish they can understand that, as they plan next year, they should look at things properly. Why do we have to go through the same problems?

Sir, that brings me back to the point of monitoring and evaluation by the Executive. You need to monitor and evaluate the implementation of the Budget. I do not want us to come next year to talk about the same things. Let us change. Let us have the mindset of the Executive set to pro-poor people.

Mr Speaker, I have three clinics in my constituency and this Government has extended them. These are Kwacha, Riverside and Ipusukilo clinics. These clinics also have maternity wards and everything, but they are non-operational. I do not know why they extended them. Furthermore, these clinics only run from 0800 hours to 1700 hours. Sir, you have noticed that patients get worse in the night.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: Why have they not given me nurses who can attend to those patients? I am not being critical but just stating the truth. I have been everywhere. I have tried to talk to everybody, I can, but nothing is happening.

Hon. Mulongoti: You are bemoaning!

Mr L. J. Mulenga: I am sorry Hon. Mulongoti, you are saying I am bemoaning, I am not bemoaning, I am only telling you.

Mr Speaker: Order! Address the Chair, hon. Member.

Mr L. J. Mulenga: I thank you, Sir.

Coming back to agriculture, this Executive signed the Maputo Agreement that they shall support agriculture to the tune of 10 per cent. What has happened to the agreement? I hope that the Executive has not forgotten about all the protocol agreements they have signed. I hope they will consider the health sector and every agreement that they have signed in the implementation of the Budget in line with the Fifth National Development Plan.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mweemba (Magoye): First of all, I would like to join Hon. Mumbi Phiri and Hon. Lubinda in wishing the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kapita), a quick recovery.

Miss Mumbi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweemba: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you, most sincerely, for allowing me to add my voice to the Budget Speech debate. I would also like to thank other hon. Members who have contributed effectively to the debate on the Budget Speech which was delivered by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on 20th January, 2008.

Mr Speaker, from the onset, I would like to state that this year’s Budget theme is very interesting in that, the Government through the National Budget intends to unlock resources for economic empowerment and wealth creation. While appreciating this noble pronouncement from the Government, it is my sincere hope that the MMD Government will live up to its pronouncement of unlocking resources and rendering quality public service to the Zambian people.

Sir, this New Deal Government should remember that we will judge its performance on the basis of its action and not on the pronouncements that are made. I hope this listening Government is not going to give us promissory notes. With this brief introduction, let me now debate on some selected aspects of the National Budget.

With regard to agriculture, this Government has not paid effective attention to the agricultural sector. The Government, as you are aware, has prioritised agriculture as an engine for economic development. However, I would like to caution Government that progress in the agricultural sector will depend, to a large extent, on certain parameters being put in place, especially this year.

The yields of the majority of the people in rural areas cannot be recorded when a lot of producers do not have access to agricultural inputs. It is unfortunate that, this season, the agricultural sector was beset with several problems. In this season, prices for agricultural inputs like fertiliser were increased making them unaffordable to most farmers, especially small-scale farmers. Sir, even the Fertiliser Support Programme has failed.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweemba: It has failed.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweemba: They are giving promissory notes. People were asked to make down-payments for the fertilisers, but that fertiliser was not given to them. Mr Speaker, if this Government wants to bounce back to power in 2011, …

Hon. UPND Member: We do not want it.

Mr Mweemba: … it must first put priority to agriculture …


Mr Mweemba: … and I know that they will not bounce back to power …

Miss Mumbi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweemba: … because they are giving promissory notes. We are not going to eat promissory notes. In 2011, that Government will be in the opposition because UPND will be ruling.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Mweemba: Mr Speaker, the lack of adequate agricultural inputs compounded by the floods being experienced in some parts of the country will lead to a reduction in crop production this year. Mr Speaker, I am, therefore, appealing to the Government to put in place measures to mitigate the effects of the floods, especially, in Magoye Constituency.

Sir, the Government should not work in isolation, they should involve all the stakeholders so that all households that have been affected by floods are assisted. These stakeholders should include hon. Members of Parliament.

They should not be sidelined especially with the issue of the floods. Hon. Members should be informed on the programmes taking place because they are stakeholders. Mr Speaker, when I lament the devastation left by the floods, I would like to call on Government to take advantage of the abundant rainfall. They should consider putting irrigation facilities in areas where there is agriculture potential. The Government should start thinking of tapping this water now. When they have done that, dams can be made for the benefit of our animals and people. If we do not tap this water, two to three years from now, there will be drought again and we will start asking for assistance from the Government. We must plan for this in advance. Planners in the Government must do their job.

Mr Speaker, I want to talk about the infrastructure development in my constituency. The development of infrastructure such as roads and bridges in all the constituencies is very important in terms of economic development. It is disheartening to note that public resources have gone to waste because of Government’s practice of awarding contracts to shoddy contractors who fail to complete these projects. Immediately these contractors are given down payment, they abandon their work. Mr Speaker, I am, therefore, asking this Government to scrutinise these contractors. The tendency of involving unregistered contractors should also stop immediately.

Sir, it should not take the President to give directives before action is taken. I urge this Government to review the mechanism in place of awarding contracts so that tax payers money is not misappropriated by these crooked contractors. Zambia has limitations to the resources required for development, therefore, no wastage of these resources should be allowed.

Mr Speaker, I now want to discuss the social sector and I will concentrate on education and health. On education I would like to say that in Mazabuka District, this Government has never built a high school and yet now, there are some pronouncements that this Government wants to build a university. Sir, charity begins at home. The university that they want to build cannot have students if we do not have secondary schools. They say this is a listening Government but it is not because we started crying for a high school in Mazabuka District, especially in Magoye a long time ago and no one has come to our aid.

Mr Speaker, this Government has inherited Nkonkola High School which they claim to be Government owned. As I am talking, I do not know how they upgraded that school to the level of a high school because there is no laboratory. When pupils are doing their practicals, they have to go to Namalundu High School in Kafue Gorge. What was so difficult for this Government to put up a laboratory at this school before they could upgrade it?

Mr Speaker, this Government is deaf.


Mr Mweemba: Mr Speaker, I am not going to bother them if they give me about K1.5 billion or K1.7 billion Constituency Development Fund (CDF) because currently, the laboratory that I am talking only needs about K153 million. Can I fail to build this laboratory from K1.5 billion? I can do it.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing is a hard working minister, therefore, she must consider increasing the CDF to K1.7 billion or K2 billion.

Ms Mumbi: Hear, hear!

Mr Mweemba: I now want to talk about roads. We do not have roads in the constituency. Mr Speaker, the Magoye/Namaila Road is very bad and this is where the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who is my elder brother comes from and he will agree with me that the road is…

Mr Magande: On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, I need your serious ruling on this matter. Is the hon. Member in order to say that the Chivuna/Namaila Road has not been worked on when he knows that two years ago, there was an issue in the Mazabuka District Council that the contractor they gave the money to work on the road disappeared and they could not find him. Is he in order to say that Government does not care when money for projects is being eaten by other people?


Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Magoye will take note of the contents of the point of order by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. You may continue.

Mr Mweemba: Mr Speaker, I wish I could have the details of that contractor because I am an hon. Member for that area and I want to know if there were those problems. Sir, a pregnant woman cannot be driven on the Chivuna/Namaila/Nkonkola Road otherwise she will deliver on the way. Mr Speaker, with regards to development in the health sector, my major concern is of lack of essential drugs in the health centres in my constituency. I want to request this so called listening Government to look into this issue seriously. There is only one health centre called Magoye Rural Health Centre with about sixteen referral sub-centres.

Mr Speaker, Magoye Rural Health Centre has no ambulance but patients are referred to Mazabuka which is about 100 km away. How do we take these patients to the hospital when we do not have proper transport? The only vehicle that is there was donated by the former hon. Member of Parliament Mr Vincent Malambo and it now old.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Mweemba: Mr Speaker, I can simply say that we do not have transport and so I am asking this Government or should I say I am demanding that the Government gives us an ambulance.

Hon. Opposition Members: hear, hear!

Mr Mweemba: I demand for an ambulance. The only ambulance which is there caters for Magoye, Chikankata and Mazabuka Central. Sir, I demand for an ambulance for Magoye.

Hon. Opposition Member: Cry.

Mr Mweemba: Mr Speaker, if it means crying …


Mr Speaker: Order! You may not cry.


Mr Speaker: Debate!

Mr Mweemba: Mr Speaker, the people are suffering although I will not cry, but in my heart, I am a bitter man because I am not being assisted by Government.

Mr Muntanga: And your brother is not listening.

Mr Mweemba: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I would like to talk about cattle restocking. We cannot start buying cattle before buying the drugs and building the dip tanks for the animals. I want to tell this Government that we do not need restocking, all we need are the dip tanks and the drugs. Once you give us those drugs for our few animals that have been left with denkete, they will multiply.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: hear, hear!

The Minister of Lands (Mr Machila): Mr Speaker, I would like to start by congratulating the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning on the presentation of his Budget whose theme is Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation. I believe this was his milestone sixth presentation.

Mr Speaker, the 2008 Budget, according to the Price Water House Cooper’s review emphasises the considerable economic progress in the recent years and proposes various policies aimed at creating a nation of dynamic self-confident and vibrant entrepreneurs.

Mr Speaker, during 2007, Government amongst other things achieved GDP of 6.2 per cent against a sub-Saharan African average of 6.1 per cent, inflation of 8.9 per cent against our budgetary target of 9 per cent, and gross international reserves up to 3.6 months of import cover from two months cover in the year 2006.

Mr Speaker, the above factors make Zambia a very attractive investment destination as already highlighted in the Goldman Sach Report referred to by Hon. Dora Siliya.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Machila: The benefits of the reduced Pay As You Earn (PAYE) will mean that more disposable income will be in the hands of the recipients and it shall also contribute to wealth creation.

Mr Speaker, as Government we shall continue to strive to become a middle income country by 2030 and also continue to be alive to the fact that we are now at the half way mark of the timeline for achieving the Millennium Development Goals.

Mr Speaker, coming to the Ministry of Lands, we take cognisance of and I have noted that our budgetary allocation has been reduced by K2 billion even though we exceeded our revenue target by 100 per cent. This shall not destruct us from focusing on the important role we have to play in the development of Zambia, and more particularly, in the empowerment of our people. We shall make good use of the resources that have been availed to us in order for us to equip the ministry and continue to contribute to national coffers.

Mr Speaker, during the course of this year, the ministry shall utilise these resources for amongst other things, to fund the re-entry exercise that we have been planning. In addition to this, we shall also be utilising these resources to flush out those who illegally own land in Zambia. Improper ownership of land by foreigners is distorting the market and making it very difficult for Zambians to also access some of the land in our nation.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, in this vein, we shall also as we look for more land to open up consider the avenue of compulsion acquisition, which avenue, shall necessitate some compensation, whether in monetary terms or financial terms and we hope that with the relevant time, we shall have the co-operation of our colleagues in the Ministry of Finance and National Planning. During the course of this year, we anticipate that the land policy shall be considered by Cabinet and in the course of this year, after the consideration by Cabinet, it is our expectation that we maybe bringing legislation to this House.

Sir, having followed the reports in the papers recently, and some of the debates in this House, I feel it would be amiss of me not to mention the mining development agreements. Mr Speaker, hon. Members are aware that the mines were acquired in 2000 when the price of copper was at 65 cents per pound. The acquisition business plans delivered an adequate return based on the copper price being at around 80 cents per pound. Today, the price of copper stands in the range of about US$6 per pound.

Mr Speaker, Zambian shareholders, i.e. the public through ZCCM IH has received mineral dividends because it is acknowledged that mining companies have paid out disguised advance dividends by way of technical service fees. Against this background, a revised mining tax regime that is graduated and reflects the returns delivered to mine investors beyond US$2 per pound threshold is, indeed, reasonable. It is our belief that the mines must reflect on the course of action they propose to take, especially, considering the fact that they too have not been honouring all their commitments that were made under these development agreements.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, amongst the commitments made under the development agreements were issues regarding health and safety, labour, environment and immigration. The proposals that have been made by the Government are balanced and in-keeping with internationally accepted norms.  The Government released the money that it is able to generate for vital programmes in the health and education sectors and also to assist in infrastructure repairs and rehabilitation following the bad weather pattern that we have been experiencing this year. These facts are alive to all the hon. Members of the House.

Mr Speaker, to quote the country Manager of the World Bank based in Zambia, he says and I quote:

“The new mining fiscal regime makes the taxes more equitable as it places Zambia in the middle point of global mining taxation. This is a good opportunity for Zambia to invest in rural infrastructure development.”

Mr Speaker, he goes on to say and I quote:

“Overall the Budget is good, especially that key sectors such as health and education have been prioritised, but what remains is to grow the economy and sustain it and also implementation of major projects is a positive development.”

Mr Speaker, Government has taken bold and principled steps to overcome the inequity of the tax arrangements with the mining companies. Companies have been getting away with non-compliance and to quote the Attorney-General when he appeared before the Parliamentary Committee, he said and I quote:

‘We as Government continue to hope that the mining companies will understand where we are coming from. We want to be able to handle this amicably. In the event that Government is drugged to court, we shall be left with no option, but to defend our position.’

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, we keep hearing about the price of copper  per Pound or indeed the price of cobalt per Pound. Surely, the mining houses must realise that they have had more than their pound of flesh and we as Government shall do what is necessary to protect the interest of those whom we present and Zambia at large.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): Mr Speaker, I would like to state that I listened very attentively to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I have also perused the Yellow Book and what I have discovered is that this year’s budget is one of the most deceptive budgets ever presented in the House.

 Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: I will be proving that very soon.

Mr Speaker, when you look at the education, health and agriculture sectors, it tells you that indeed, this budget is deceptive.

Mr Speaker, in 2007, Government appropriated 15 per cent of the total budget and this year, 15.4 per cent of the budget which is an increment of 0.4 per cent. I heard the hon. Minister of Education very happy indeed, about that in that he has received an increment in this year’s budget.

Sir, in an education system, which is on its knees, you give it 15 per cent of the total budget? Mr Speaker, our education system is completely on its knees. Mr Speaker, the 15 per cent is of the total budget. In a normal system, they calculate on the basis of GDP. An education sector gets on the basis of GDP. Now here, this is just on the total budget, 15.4 per cent of the entire budget and not on the GDP.

 Mr Speaker, you will know that we are still the only country in Southern African that is spending less in education as the country’s GDP. Even a country like Angola that is just coming out of active war spends more than 6 per cent of their GDP. Mozambique which was also from an active war spends more than 5 per cent of the GDP.

 Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Yet, we are spending less than 2 per cent of GDP.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: The reason why they do not want to equate all of this to the GDP is because the GDP is not theirs. It is not home-grown. The GDP that we are talking about that the economy is growing is as a result of the mines that are not yours.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Syakalima: Therefore, there is nothing to be proud of. This is the reason, year in year out - I have never heard the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning come here to tell the nation that the percentage of education or any other sector is equated to the GDP. They do not say that because they know very well that the GDP is not home-grown.

 Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, why does the economy not grow? The stagnation of our economy is s disastrous consequence of a country that has neglected education.

 Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, every time the hon. Minister who is an educationist knows very well and he wants to say that we have done enough. What enough have you done…

Hon. Opposition Members: Nothing!

Mr Syakalima:…when over one hundred million children are unable to access school.


Mr Syakalima: Hon. Colleagues, you are Zambians, therefore, do not behave like refugees hoping that one day, you will be repatriated.


Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Siavonga will address the Chair.


Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, they should never behave like refuges who think that one day after all, they will be repatriated. There are reasons why people vote and when you are fortunate enough to be in Government, you must take up your social responsibility.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, you have a social responsibility. Mr Speaker, I have heard our colleagues say that you should give due praise. Praising who?

Hon. Opposition Members: For what?

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, let me just tell them what Norman Vincent Peale said and maybe, they will get it. He said and I quote:

‘Most of us would rather be ruined by praise than be served by criticism. You are better of accepting criticism because if you do not listen to it, you will be ruined’.

Mr Speaker, I am now talking to the hon. Deputy Minister of Defence because last week he said something that I could not imagine him saying.

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Sir.


Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, when I realised that the hon. Deputy Minister of Defence said that we have done a lot and you can even go to Kanyama, you will find that there are shopping malls – meaning that there is shoprite in Kanyama and anything that is at Manda Hill. I started asking myself if we were really living in the same country. When you go and check what those people are going through, the fume that is there. Right now, I am talking about the education system and so many schools have been closed in Kanyama.

Sir, when a child is not in school, every day that passes, that child has been ruined. Sir, you will really appreciate that at the end of the year, those children will sit and write the same examination as those pupils who were learning.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, education is long life and what that translates to is that this Government has ruined one or two doctors in Kanyama.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: This Government has destroyed or ruined one, two or three engineers in Kanyama.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: This Government has ruined one or two…

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that because of those schools that are shut down in Kanyama, this Government has ruined three or four state counsels. They have ruined pilots, teachers, soldiers, police officers, prison warders, and, indeed, the country.

Mr Speaker, this is why we are saying that they must pay particular attention, rather than coming here wanting to be praised. You will never be praised as long as you do not fulfil your social responsibility. It is important that our education system must be looked at in a manner that we have to be competitive in the 21st Centaury. At the rate we are going, we will never attain any Millennium Development Goals (MDG) by 2015, mark my words. The behaviour of this Government will not take us through by 2015 to attain any of the fifteen MDGs because education should have been the starting point and everything was going to follow.

Mr Speaker, if you talk about health, it is an educated person who is going to take care of the health situation. Anything that you talk about revolves around education.

Mr Speaker, let me remind them again on this idea of wanting to be praised from Vienna Rollins, who had this to say. Some years ago, in a rural section of California, a Mexican mother died living a family of eight children. The oldest girl not yet 17 years was a tiny thing, upon her shoulders fell the burden of caring for the family. Taking up the task with courage she kept the children clean, well fed and in school. One day, when she was complimented on her achievement she replied and I quote;

 “I cannot take any credit for something I have to do.”

Why do you want to take credit for something that you have to do …

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: … and you are paid for that.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, you have a social contract with the Zambians and that contract ends in 2011. In between, we shall prod you to do what you promised the Zambians. You signed a social contract and I have no time to praise you. I have no time to ululate for you. I have every time to prod you. Whatever you have done, in fact, you are doing nothing …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Syakalima: You are basically doing nothing.


Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, you heard the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services, and how sometimes what comes out of our mouths can actually even further ruin the country. Just a few minutes ago, the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services was saying, the rural people are content with what they have, and therefore, we do not need to take electricity there because may be they will fail to pay for electricity.


Mr Syakalima: Coming from a Minister of Government ...

Mr Kambwili: Shame!

Mr Syakalima: … and you are happy that people live in squalor. Can you be happy to see people living in such conditions, as obtains in rural areas? If you improved your agriculture system, those people who are in rural areas can be paying for the electricity.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Now, you have neglected something that was giving them money and you come here and say that they are content with what they have now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!


Mr Syakalima: While you are wearing ties. One thing that we have and I will continuously quote Professor Ali Mazrui He says;

“Every cloth that you wear you must always remember that they are people who are walking naked. The water that you drink you must remember they are people who are drinking contaminated water and must always remember that every time that you have a meal, other people have not eaten for three days.”

And you are telling me that I am wearing a jacket and that I must take it off. I am saying that a responsible leader feels it that way. You must live the pain of others, that is when you will be called a responsible leader.

Ms Masiye: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: If you cannot live the pain of others, the water that you are drinking, you are sucking from those who are thirst. That is what you have to know.

Sometimes, it is so painful, Mr Speaker, you come here and then each time that I hear such utterances from Ministers of Government, I wonder where this country is going.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, sometimes in this place where the nation has gathered because we are coming from different places. Each one of us is carrying a huge burden from the people. I was thinking that this could have been the House of sobriety.

Hon. Opposition Member: Bambile.

Mr Syakalima: When we come to share these problems because these are problems. I do not envy anything. Now, if you envy yourselves when you are in Government there must be something wrong with you because you are carrying a huge responsibility. Mr Speaker, 150 plus 80 of us against 12 million people, that is a huge responsibility. Such slippery utterances do not augur very well. I am saying this with a very open mind. I am not talking about Government only, but any one of us making utterances in this House, those must reflect the suffering out there.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: We should not just turn this House into something where people will just come and speak, I do not think so. When you are in Government, I know you would not want to say, here we have failed. Even when you are in Government you should be able to stand up and say, give them this, we could do this, and we know this has been very bad, but given this, we could do this. But you sometimes hear when they are answering our questions they want to say it as if it is a fight. We did not come here to fight. We came to control each other and to share ideas the way we are exuding our knowledge to you.


Mr Syakalima: Yes, we are exuding knowledge to you.


Hon. Opposition Members: You hear!

Mr Syakalima: Mr Speaker, there are so many things I could have said but before I conclude I would like to say that  when we make our education system stand on its own, everything shall follow.

Mr Speaker, with those very few and kind words, I thank you very much.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Malwa): Mr Speaker, I thank you most sincerely for affording me this opportunity to join other hon. Members, who have already contributed to the debate on this important Motion.

Mr Speaker, first of all, I wish to begin by congratulating both His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, on his momentous opening speech to Parliament and the Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Peter Magande on coming up with a truly developmental focussed blueprint. I also pay tribute to the seconder of the Motion Hon. Afredah Mwamba, MP for Lukashya Constituency in Northern Province.

Mr Speaker, from the outset, allow me to thank those colleagues who have spoken to express their views on this Budget and to state that as Government, we greatly value constructive advice and not baseless advice, in the service of Mother Zambia. Hence a good idea from either your Left or indeed Right, will not be lost by us. We shall embrace it to improve the welfare of our people. It is, therefore, not true to assume that any part of Zambia will be sidelined or discriminated in terms of development as we do not have a narrow and regional perspective as can be seen from the Fifth National Development Plan.

The hon. Member for Petauke spoke at length on projects in the strongholds of the Opposition such as Southern, Lusaka and Copperbelt Provinces. Infrastructure development projects are ongoing in all of these provinces regardless of any political affiliation, so the Opposition should learn to criticise constructively and not destructively. I, therefore, support Hon. Muyanda and Hon. Matongo in the way they debate. They are not clumsy in their debates like others.


Mr Malwa: As an Executive, we need to be motivated by praises and by people appreciating what we do. I also wish to pay tribute to our hon. Cabinet Ministers on the Front Bench who have ably explained the various sectoral questions raised by hon. Members on your Left. From the explanation by our able hon. Ministers it is crystal clear that this Government is taking development to all corners of Zambia. In this regard, let me salute the Ruling Party, Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), and the New Deal Government for the development that it is bringing.

Mr Speaker, without sounding as if I am only debating the speech by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, let me simply sum it up by stating that the speech contained very clear guidance to us all and the implementing agencies. It also unveiled and provided a policy roadmap whose practical measures are in the Budget now under debate and consideration. The speech also contained crystal clear checklists of achievements in the various sectors of our economy as confirmed in the Budget before us.

Mr Speaker, for example, Government under the able leadership of His Excellency the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, last year undertook to continue maintaining a stable macroeconomic environment with a growth rate of above 5 per cent.

Mr Speaker, true to that promise, the Government has indeed achieved many developmental projects which are now currently underway in the mines, agriculture, civil works and other sectors, just to mention a few, as confirmed by the Budget before us now.

The growth in the real Gross Domestic Product (GDP) has continued to register a positive estimate of about 6.2 per cent. Furthermore, despite the inflationary pressures resulting from high international oil prices, end of year inflation for 2007 still stood at a single digit. May I remind the House that this is the first time we have achieved a single digit inflation rate. Some ‘doubting Thomases’ and ‘prophets of doom’ scoffed at the Government’s achievement and accused us of manipulating figures for our own political expediency. Mr Speaker, it is now abundantly clear that the Kwacha has remained strong in Zambia. Our people and the business community now have a stable purchasing power and more money in their pockets to buy more goods and services and create more jobs.

To this effect, even some hon. Members on both your Left and Right sides of this august House that have businesses have benefited from this purchasing power which the Government of the day has put in place. Even scrap metal companies like that of Hon. Kambwili, who is unthankful, are now doing better than before. Therefore, you should now learn to be thankful and appreciate the achievement of the New Deal MMD Government. The Patriotic Front (PF) will never form a democratic government until such a time that it will be disbanded due to the ongoing divisions on the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) membership.  Bravo to those hon. Members of Parliament who have joined the NCC and shame to those Capricorns and undecided hon. Members of the Opposition who have shunned joining the NCC.

Mr Speaker, for those that are advocating violence on the hon. Members who have decided to join the NCC, I wish to remind them that the law will visit them and they should also ask Hon. Chishimba to tell them what happened.

I am proud to inform this august House that the business community in Kapiri Mposhi Constituency is equally a beneficiary of the enhanced purchasing power of the Kwacha and therefore, in full support of these good Government polices. I thank them for electing me as their area hon. Member of Parliament with the highest vote and I also thank them for giving His Excellency the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, the highest vote during the just ended tripartite elections.

Mr Speaker, one of the many positive developments that have resulted in the empowerment of our people is the management of domestic debt. Our domestic debt was better managed in the course of 2007 as reported by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who revealed that domestic debt arrears to road contractors and other suppliers of goods and services fell by 16.5 per cent to K370.5 billion while the stock of pension arrears was reduced by a hefty 31.9 per cent from K396.5 billion in 2006 to 269.9 billion in 2007.

Mr Speaker, this means that more money went to our people who are involved in construction and rehabilitation works of various civil projects. Retired workers were paid and benefited from this injection of money in the economy and this is what our people are now using to accelerate various economic activities.

Mr Speaker, this is as it should be and clearly demonstrates the Government’s commitment to empowering our people and unlocking the potential of our citizens. Kapiri Mposhi Glass Factory retrenched workers have requested the listening New Deal Government to pay them their packages in the 2008 Budget. The Budget has a provision for some retired workers’ packages and they will be paid in due course.

Hence, it is not surprising that this time around, His Excellency the President’s Speech has been full of good substance as confirmed by the performance of our economy reported in the 2008 Budget. The speech by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning contains actual projected programmes and developmental projects which cut across regions, political parties and any other consideration.

Mr Speaker, not only are the two addresses complimentary to the Fifth National Development Plan, but the addresses are equally embracing all corners of Zambia such that no single area in Zambia is left out without major development efforts. The speeches did indeed, raise advisory debates in this august House. I also note that the many hon. Members of this august House who spoke in support of this speech, indeed supported in all fairness while those who raised points of concern did so, only to encourage the New Deal Government to step up programmes that need implementation to ensure equitable distribution of development in their respective constituencies.

Hon. Opposition Member: Talk about disaster management!

Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, in this regard, His Excellency, the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, deserves a huge pat on the back. He needs support rather than criticism even where the New Deal Government is scoring. Learn to appreciate where it is due and I urge you hon. Members on both sides of the House to respect the majority of the people of Zambia’s views who put the MMD New Deal Government into power. People should join Government in the fight against corruption and the famous Nchekelako which was prevalent in the Second Republic.

Mr Speaker, for the many who worked in the Second Republic, they should differentiate between the New Deal Government and the Second Republic. Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, was democratically elected to drive this country, therefore, you should desist from criticizing because the people of Zambia made the right decision. The Opposition should be rest assured that come 2011, MMD New Deal Government will still be in power for another five years or even beyond.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malwa: This in itself shows how visionary the speech was and clearly demonstrates now how hard the ruling Government is working to spread development to all corners of Zambia, urban as well as in rural areas.

Mr Speaker, for example mining has not only been revived on the tradition, Copperbelt Province, but has extended to North Western, Southern, Lusaka and Central Provinces, while active surveying and mineral exploration is on going in Eastern, Western, Northern provinces and other parts of the country. Mr Speaker, exploration in oil will continue up to such a time Zambia will start producing oil. This will evidently unlock resources for economic empowerment and wealth will be created in line with the theme of our Budget this year, 2008.

Hon. Opposition Member: The disaster management!

Mr Malwa: The gemstone sector is being transformed into a vibrant mining sub-sector. Women are in the forefront of this sector and Government is ensuring that communities stand to benefit with complimentary tax measures, which both His Excellency the President and the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning announced. With the current high metal prices on the international market, the country surely stands on a threshold of success in agriculture, tourism, manufacturing and other sectors of the economy of this country …

Hon. Opposition Member: The disaster management!

Mr Malwa: I know some of them want me to discuss the flood situation. Mr Speaker, all hon. Members in this august House are right in seeking substantial budgetary support for the Office of the Vice-President to be able to mitigate against these floods.

Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to remind this august House that as per predictions of our meteorological department in the Ministry of Communications and Transport, the above normal rains that have affected large parts of our country have, indeed resulted into devastation and destruction of infrastructure such as roads, bridges and culverts, human settlements, particularly along the major river valleys of Zambezi, Kafue, and  Luangwa Rivers, just to mention a few.

With regards to agriculture production, food security has been maximized by relief food to many communities who have lost both their traditional houses and crop fields which have submerged or washed away. As it is now, the Southern Province districts of Mazabuka, Monze, Sinazongwe, Siavonga, Namwala, Itezhi tezhi, Livingstone and other districts of Mumbwa and Lusaka are the worst hit by the floods. Other parts in Western Province, particularly, Zambezi West bank, Mwinilunga and Kabompo in North Western Province have also suffered devastating floods. According to the Meteorological Department, more rains may be expected and we should therefore brace ourselves for the worst to come.

May I take this opportunity once more, to appeal to you hon. Members to ask people living in dambo areas to move to dry lands. Preliminary estimates indicate that many more districts have been affected. As a committed Government, you saw that His Excellency, the Republican President of Zambia and His Honour the Vice-President have both been touring the flooded areas and assistance has been given where need arose.

It has also been estimated that to mitigate the effects of the floods, amounts of resources are required for relief food, Tentage, Bridges, Culverts, contractual and maintenance work.

Mr Speaker, may I thank the donors’ responses which have been overwhelming and may I also thank some hon. Members of this august House who have made some donations to the flood victims.

Hon. Members: hear, hear!

Mr Malwa: Mr Speaker, resettlement is not only to retired workers, but also to displaced personnel. The resettlement department under the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit requires adequate funding to save lives of the communities in Zambia. Rain disasters are natural and not man made and therefore, the Opposition should not politicise such disasters, but should just come on board collectively, to mitigate and save life.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Home Affairs (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Mr Speaker, I want to thank you for giving me an opportunity to contribute to the debate on the motion moved by my brother, Hon. Magande.

Mr Speaker, allow me to, first of all, thank His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for a very wonderfully delivered, visionary, defined speech. All Zambians indeed, were wonderfully blessed by such visionary leadership that His Excellency the President showed to all of us.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I also want to appreciate and thank his Honour the Vice-President for the wonderful way he continues to steer this nation through the many difficulties of the floods that we have experienced.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: We want to express appreciation for his office and all those officers who have worked tirelessly to ensure that our people are not overcome by the floods.

Mr Speaker, in the same vein, allow me to place our appreciation on record to you and all your staff here at the National Assembly for the wonderful way that you have continued to steer this august House’s contribution to the development of our country.

Mr Speaker, the Budget Address by Hon. Magande, surely, must be considered as one of the best Budgets in modern Zambia.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: It is a wonderful Budget.


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, the Budget Speech has many wonderful nuggets of greater measure that will move the Zambian economy to higher per capita income for all Zambians as we unlock resources for economic empowerment and create wealth for our people.

Sir, Joe Maxwell, the anointed Christian author of so many books says in his leadership teachings and I quote:

 “A leader is one who knows the way, goes the way and shows the way.”

Mr Speaker, a leader is therefore, one who knows the way to the bigger nuggets in the Budget.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: A leader is one who goes the way to reach out to those nuggets and also shows our people whom we are representing here.

Sir, as elected and nominated hon. Members, we are carrying the mantle of leadership for the Zambians who have put us in these positions so that we can give them guidance by way of policy and, indeed, by way of showing them the nuggets in such things as the budget.

Mr Speaker, it is not good for us to lead our people in more storms of complaints. We should instead lead our people to ensure that we assure them that the future is secure. Mr Speaker, I can never forget the wonderful group of artistes called the Beatles.


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha:  Mr Speaker, I am sure that you also listened to the Beatles. They sang a wonderful song that said “No Where Man, Please Listen.”

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: I want to say, therefore, to all those who are arguing and saying that this is a bad speech, that you are nowhere and please listen.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, we must be positive as leaders and embrace this budget with positive passion that will lead our people to the bigger nuggets that are contained in the budget.

Sir, I was impressed with the wonderful debate by the hon. Member for Chilubi. He clearly showed in his debate that there is a silver lining in every dark cloud. Surrounded by so much water and usually called overseas in Chilubi, yet in the last Budget of 2007, he found such great nuggets that he was able to come here and say these are the nuggets that I found for our people. I want to urge all of us here to be positive with the Budget. I, indeed, applaud him that he has given us an understanding that in this Budget we can find greater and bigger nuggets for our people.

Mr Speaker, let me share with hon. Members of this august House the bigger nuggets that I see in the Budget which we should not ignore. I can speak of so many, but because of time, I will stick to only a few. The first is to achieve real Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of at least 7 per cent.

Mr Speaker, as leaders, rather than go to greater length to condemn the Budget, we must ask ourselves, how the people you represent will contribute to this real GDP growth of 7 per cent and increase upon it. It is indeed our national responsibility that the GDP growth rate continues to rise. We can only do this if we continue to allow our people to be partakers in the economy.

Mr Speaker, whilst many can demand that there must be social safety nets, as Hon. Sakwiba Sikota so clearly put it in his debate yesterday, the answer lies in Zambia achieving the targeted macro-economic objectives for this year. Only then can we have the bigger nuggets to share with everybody at every level of our people.

Mr Speaker, we are a very caring Government. We have placed emphasis on settling of domestic arrears. This, Sir, helps to remove pressure on our people who have hither to been without sustainable income. This is a positive social protection programme.

Mr Speaker, regarding revenue, I also want to share with the hon. Members of this House that 71.4 per cent of the National Budget is being financed from domestic revenue. I think we must rejoice. It is not very long ago when 52 per cent to 58 per cent of the entire national Budget was being financed from the donor community. Today, we can rise and claim to ensure that 71.4 per cent of the Budget is from our own money.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Bwekeshenipo!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: We should be proud of ourselves. We should also work with our people in the constituencies and countrywide to ensure that this figure goes even higher to 90 per cent or 95 per cent because then, we are talking about proper leadership.

Mr Speaker, for me and many Zambians, this 71.4 finance from our own resources is indeed very good and therefore this Budget requires to be commended. It is a great Budget and indeed it shall produce more for our people.

Mr Speaker, let me deal with the issue of public order and safety. Public order and safety is of great importance, even to my young brother Hon. Mwila.


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: In this vein, this Budget enhances the security of our country. We can now, without hesitation, say that our men and women in uniform can walk with greater hope not only in Lusaka, but also in Chavuma, Nyakulenga, Lwampa, Kaungamashi, Sinjembela, Mwandi and Kasaba Bay.

Hon. Member: Amen!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: That there shall be police and security men to protect our people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Even in the remotest parts of Zambia’s borders, with this Budget, we can be able to provide good security for our people. There will be need for security officers to be well accommodated and remunerated arising out of this Budget.

Mr Speaker, this indeed is a bigger nugget that we are able to move forward and give hope to our men and women in uniform. Therefore, I urge this august House that even as this Budget provides accommodation for the policemen and police women in your constituencies, support the work of this Government and come back here and speak as our brother from Chilubi spoke positively.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, law and order is a pre-requisite of nations which aspire to reach greater nuggets of the world.

Hon. Member: Nuggets!


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Yes, indeed. I want to assure all those involved in the bye-election in Kanyama that go ahead with your campaign and vote peacefully. The police are on total alert. Voters, however, must remember that there are many areas of concern. I agree with the hon. Member for Siavonga that many professionals may have been destroyed but I want to ask who has destroyed them?

Mr Speaker, the voters know that they have been under nine years of Opposition dominion.

Hon. Government Member: The yolk!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Under the yolk of the Opposition.


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: For nine long years. Surely, is it now not time they tried the New Deal Government?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, before I end allow me to speak to those hon. Members who have dishonoured the NCC by staying away from it. Surely, the future belongs to the likes of Hon. Lubinda, Hon. Kambwili, Hon. Mwila …

Mr Kambwili: Question!


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: … Hon. Nsanda, Hon. Mumbi and many others.


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: This future, indeed, provides for good leadership.

Mr Speaker, the future does not belong to leaders of nowhere direction …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: … whose time is up, whose Godly mandate may not be there.


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I want to remind those wonderful hon. Members that remember one particular individual in Africa, Idi Amin. When he was out of constitution, he went to live in Saudi Arabia. Where will yours retire to without you? Maybe Taipei, …


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: … but then I want to tell you that, by that time, Taipei would be under China …


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I urge them to come to the NCC because it is their future that is at stake.

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Do not be afraid of the anaconda …


Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Few fangs are left and they are too far apart to bite you.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Do not be afraid of the anaconda.


Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Minister will avoid insinuations.


Mr Speaker: May he move on to the next point.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Speaker, I urge all my hon. Colleagues to join hands to allow for a good constitution to come to the people of Zambia. Therefore, I urge all of us to come together and ensure that we produce a constitution that will give the future a wonderful hope for the people and the generations to come.

Sir, while the 2008 Budget Speech only costs K30,000, the contents of the…

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Sir.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: … document are bigger nuggets that we must embrace and move positively. Mr Speaker, those hon. Members that will have a positive expose will find many wonderful benefits out of it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Commerce Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati): Mr Speaker, I wish to commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for presenting a budget that responds to the social and development agenda of this country.

Indeed, we have heard from some of our hon. Colleagues that this Budget is deceptive and defective, and, indeed, a few more have stated that this Budget …

Mr Speaker: Order!

(Debate adjourned)


The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now, adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1916 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 14th February, 2008.