Debates- Friday, 7th March, 2008

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Friday, 7th March, 2008

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association (CPA) Zambia Branch will join other Commonwealth countries in commemorating the Commonwealth Day on Monday, 10th March, 2008.

The Zambia Branch has lined up activities involving young citizens drawn from the nine provinces of Zambia. On behalf of the Branch, I am inviting all hon. Members of Parliament, as CPA Branch members, to attend the Commemoration of the Commonwealth Day on Mandy, 10th March, 2008 at 0930 hours in the Auditorium here at Parliament Buildings.

Further, I invite you to the activities that will take place on Tuesday, 11th March, 2008 at 0930 hours at the same venue. Please, support this important event on the CPA Calendar.

Thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!



The Vice-President (Mr R. Banda): Mr Speaker, I rise to give the House some idea of the business it will consider next week.

Sir, on Tuesday, 11th March, 2008, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then resolve into Committee of Supply on this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the following heads:

Head 51 – Ministry of Communications and Transport;
Head 64 – Ministry of Works and Supply; and
Head 76 – Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development.

On Thursday, 13th March, 2008, the Business of the House will begin with Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. After that, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will consider the following heads:

Heads 90 to 98 – Office of the President – Provinces.

Sir, on Friday, 14th March, 2008, the Business of the House will begin with His Honour the Vice-President’s Question Time. Then, the House will consider Questions, if there will be any. This will be followed by presentation of Government Bills, if there will be any. The House will then consider the Second Reading Stage of the Excess Expenditure Appropriation (2005) Bill, (N. A. B. 4/2008) which was referred to the Committee on Estimates on Friday, 29th February, 2008. Thereafter, the House will resolve into Committee of Supply on this year’s Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure and will wind up debate on the heads relating to provinces and thereafter consider the following heads:

Head 65 – Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training; and
Head 99 – Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President whether it is Government’s policy to use District Commissioners to block development initiated by Opposition Members of Parliament. There have been numerous complaints by Opposition Members of Parliament against the attitude of DCs in as far as developmental issues are concerned in the districts.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President (Mr R. Banda): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Roan for asking this question regarding the attitude of our District Commissioners in the districts all over Zambia.

Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to ask the hon. Member for Roan to talk about the constituency he knows best, which is Roan, and not generalise because as I go round this country, I do find many District Commissioners working very well with hon. Members of Parliament even in the Opposition.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, may I use my old age to advise young hon. Members of Parliament that it is our duty when we become leaders, especially at the level of Member of Parliament, to try and get on with everybody.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Once we do that, especially those that we have no power to change, we will find our work a little bit easier. I would like to advise Members of Parliament in the ruling party, Cabinet Ministers, Ministers in the Vice-President’s Office and so forth, that we have to learn to work with everybody.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: It is necessary for a leader to find a way to communicate well with those that he has to work with and work for.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: In the wisdom of this Government and the party, the District Commissioners are the best people to deal with this matter when you consider that the general call by most politicians or hon. Members and the country as a whole is that development must take place at the district or local level.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President:  If, for instance, the Government was to put someone like our district party organiser who is much more user friendly than a District Commissioner, we co-ordinate that office. However, because we listen when hon. Members, particularly in the opposition talk to us, we decided to leave this job in the hands of the civil servants.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President:  These civil servants belong to all of us. They are there to be used by us, hon. Members of Parliament. We must develop a way of working with them. I can give many examples that I see as I travel around where many hon. Members of the opposition are on very good working terms with the District Commissioners.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President:  I do not want to embarrass some of the hon. Members of Parliament I travelled with on my last visit to the Southern Province, but I can only say that it was very enjoyable to work with the team, starting with myself, the Permanent Secretary, hon. Members of Parliament, District Commissioners and so on.

May I add that this does not mean that we are defending the District Commissioners. If a District Commissioner is incompetent and is unable to work with others, including the members of the ruling party and hon. Members in the opposition, we will simply change him. His Excellency the President is always ready to listen to the leaders at all levels as to what to do with people who are not giving a service to the people.

Once again, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Roan for raising this question which I know is very dear to most of us in terms of development in our districts.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, according to the Government statistics, Western Province is by far the poorest in Zambia. The foot and mouth disease is termed by the Government as a disease of national-economic importance. Now, there was an outbreak reported about two months ago in the southern part of the province and in spite of various protestations, this disease has been …

The Vice-President: Order! May the hon.  Member ask his question.

Mr Milupi:  Mr Speaker, would His Honour the Vice-President indicate why in spite of the fact that medicines or vaccines are available at livestock services, this disease has been allowed to propagate itself all the way now to Mabumbu area, which was reported last night? The Government has not gone to vaccinate the animals in spite of the fact that it is a disease of national economic importance. No farmer …

Mr Speaker: Order! I believe the hon. Member has asked his question.

The Vice-President:  Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Luena, Mr Milupi, for raising this question. Those of us who are interested in development, particularly in the Western Province, are aware that there is great devastation to our cattle because of the disease.

Mr Speaker, during my last visit to Western Province, that problem was brought to my attention and since then, I have taken great interest to discuss with the people in the relevant ministries who are supposed to attend to this problem. When I visited this place about a year ago, the problem was that we did not have the drug in the country. However, when the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives was notified, the drug was bought and brought it into the country.

Currently, I think efforts are being made to try and combat this disease. However, we realise that the number of cattle in this province has been reduced from over a million to nearly half a million. Therefore, there must be reasons why the Government, hon. Members of Parliament and traditional leaders are unable to combat this problem. Is it because those who are ruling that province and those who are assisting in the development are not pulling in the same direction?

Mr Speaker, I agree with my colleague that something needs to be done. I am willing, if the hon. Member of Parliament would co-operate with me, to have a meeting with all co-operating partners in that province which will include hon. Members of Parliament, advisors who are the Indunas, royal highnesses, councillors and the civil servants so that we can find out why we are failing, particularly in this province, to resolve this problem.

Mr Speaker, I would like to take advantage of this particular question to say more about this issue because I think it is very important. I am very lucky because I am on very good talking terms and in friendship with the hon. Member of Parliament.  I am sure he will take the offer I have made so that we can find out the root cause of this problem. Why is it so intractable? Why is it that we are failing? It cannot only be the Government, but it may be all of us.

Mr Kambwili: You are eating our time.

The Vice-President:  Yes, I realise that Hon. Kambwili is worried about the time, but that is the name of the game.


The Vice-President: This is a very important and well thought out question which requires the attention of the Government.  In order to make my cousin relax, I will sit down.

I thank you, Sir.


Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the Vice-President the status of Kazungula/Kasani Bridge now in view of the fact that the African Development Bank has refused to give Zimbabwe a loan because the country has not paid their previous loans.

The Vice-President: I thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me time, once again, and I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola for raising the question. I had a very fruitful and …


The Vice-President: Now that I have the attention of the House, I will proceed.


The Vice-President: I had a very fruitful and enjoyable visit to the Southern Province. I found that once there is collaboration amongst all concerned, problems can be solved.

Let me now answer the question of the Kazungula/Kasani Bridge. This matter is naturally very worrying, particularly for those of us who have been there and seen the congestion. I have been there with some people and seen the congestion and the amount of suffering that the tourists, truck drivers and all the people trying to cross that river are facing. The Government is very concerned about this. As I speak, the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Works and Supply has led a delegation to our neighbouring country to discuss this problem and find a way out. We are sincerely concerned about the congestion. The hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola knows what is happening at Kazungula/Kasani Bridge.

Normally, I like to talk to the people we visit when I go to a certain place. Now, when I went there, I was embarrassed that I could not even face the people that were waiting to be addressed by us because the situation was truly embarrassing.

Nonetheless, now delegations from Zambia and the neighbouring countries are meeting. The meeting has been initiated by us. I am sure we will be able to find a solution soon and you will be informed accordingly.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, bearing in mind the fact that we will be hosting the All Africa Games in 2011, I would like to find out from the Vice-President when the actual works on the new stadium in Ndola will commence because the site has already been identified and cleared.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much. I shall do something very unusual and say soon.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr F. R. Tembo (Nyimba): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from His Honour the Vice-President why the Government has not abided by the Maputo African Heads of State Declaration to allocate 10 per cent of the national budget to the agriculture sector.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much. I wish to remind the hon. Member of Parliament for Nyimba and all hon. Members that your Government …


The Vice-President: … his particular Government …


The Vice-President: The Government is very conscious of the agreements it makes at the international level. However, at the end of the day, the responsibility to decide on the allocation of resources is left to the Government based on the requirements of other sectors of our economy. While we agree that 10 per cent should be allocated to the agricultural sector, we also know that health, education, security and other sectors of our livelihood in the economy of this country require attention. Therefore, the decision on how much we should allocate at percentage level is finally made here. I am sure that hon. Members of Parliament are very happy that these decisions are made here because they can question them. You cannot go and ask other organisations outside why we had so much money allocated to a particular vote.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Zulu (Bwana Mkubwa): Mr Speaker, I would like His Honour the Vice-President to confirm whether it is true that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has stopped paying telephone bills for high schools on the Copperbelt. If so, how does he expect these schools to pay for this facility?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much, once again, for offering me the opportunity to answer the question asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwana Mkubwa. He wanted to know whether it is the Government’s or hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning’s decision not to pay telephone bills for high schools on the Copperbelt. I find this situation very strange. I did not have a chance to consult the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. However, knowing the policy of this Government, I think it is not possible for the hon. Minister to decide not to pay for one province, especially that hon. Members of Parliament like himself would come here and say that they are being discriminated against because they do not belong to the ruling party. It is not possible. Our Government is totally against segregation of any part of this country regardless of their political affiliation.

Now, answering the specific question raised, the hon. Minister whispered to me that all funds have been given to the various line ministries to provide services. I am sure that the Ministry of Education has funds to pay for telephone bills unless there are schools whose bills are higher than those for other schools and if that can be proved, I am sure the hon. Member of Parliament would agree with us that it is better to query. If, for example, a high school in Eastern Province which is at the same level as a school on the Copperbelt uses 1,000 units while the school on the Copperbelt uses 1,000,000 units per month, of course, that will  be queried. I can assure all hon. Members of Parliament that there is no room for segregation in this Government against any province or institution for which this Government has a duty to serve.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, although the formation of the National Roads Fund Agency (NFRA) was through the deliberations of this House, it has proved that it is an unnecessary encumbrance in the overall dispensation of the road construction programme in the country. Given a situation where the Government, Opposition and, indeed, some of the members of the international community who brought about this concept are now uncomfortable with its existence, does the Government intend to do away with NFRA so that they can audit it under the Roads Development Agency (RDA)?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I took a bit of time to stand up as an obedient Member of Parliament.


The Vice-President: I do not stand up until I am given the authority to do so.


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity. When the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala stood up to ask this question, some of us were sure that he was going to refer to the issue of “indigenous people” and how it impacts on the indigenous people …


The Vice-President: ... of this country. I can actually inform him that almost all of us nowadays are caught up by the bag of the “indigenous concept” because I hear Members of the Cabinet also say that when they are referring to the empowerment of people. They also say that we need to empower “indigenous people”. Once I hear that, I say, “My young brother’s word is being used by everybody.”

However, on a serious note, I would like to comment on your question regarding the NRFA. When hon. Members of Parliament ask the Government to create a new institution, we are always cautious because, at the end of the day, the same people that ask for the creation of new institutions will be the same people to be dissatisfied with, perhaps, the performance of the same institutions.
However, my understanding so far is that the road fund is performing well. We do listen when hon. Members of Parliament raise these questions and I am sure that my colleague in the ministry responsible for this has heard your question and will pay attention to it. If there is any merit in it, I am sure that he will make necessary recommendations to us, but we have not received any recommendations to this effect yet.

Sir, once again, I would like to thank the hon. Member of Parliament for raising this question and I hope that all concerned people are aware of the need for the roads to be attended to. This is such an emotive question. Our country has not been attended to for many years. Now, roads, bridges, schools and health facilities have not received the necessary attention because of insufficient money in the kitty. As we get more money, I can assure that it is the commitment of this Government to ensure that the road sector is attended to as expeditiously and as quickly as possible.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, the last time I asked the question about the situation in Darfur, the Vice-President was not ready for it. The question is, what is this Government doing considering its high standing in the African Union and its close relationship with the People’s Republic of China which is a strategic partner of Sudan to bring to an end the genocide which continues as we speak in the Darfur region? Genocide is the mass murder of an ethnic or racial group, and the racial group concerned in this case is the Vice-President’s own.


The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to answer the eloquent question raised by the hon. Member for Lusaka Central regarding the question of Darfur. I am sure that all hon. Members of Parliament, particularly those who are well informed about the importance of foreign affairs and diplomatic relations between countries, know how intricate these issues are. It is, therefore, necessary for all of us who are guiding and supervising these activities of relation between countries to give the Government the support in their careful approaches to these matters.

The hon. Member for Lusaka Central reminds me of the hon. Member for Namwala who each time he speaks, reminds us about the lady who was hanging onto a tree on the lake during the floods and how it impacts on her as an indigenous person. Now, I expect the same from the hon. Member for Lusaka Central that his question cannot be complete if he does not drag China into it.


The Vice-President: I understand that. Since the hon. Member made that digression, may I also be allowed to digress a little bit and say that, unfortunately for him as it is for me, both China and Taiwan belong to the Chinese. Therefore, when saying that, you must always remember that your allies and friends, the Taiwanese, are Chinese.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I want to say that the relation between China and those governments will have an impact on what is happening there. In fact, that is their affair. As far as we are concerned, we belong to the African Union (AU). At the African Union, we make certain decisions which we agree to implement together as a common entity and Darfur is one of them. Our position is very much guided by the AU resolutions.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, would His Honour the Vice-President state whether the Government has serious intentions of reviewing the constituency boundaries in the aftermath of enacting the new constitution?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I notice that I have only two minutes remaining and so I shall try to answer quickly the hon. Member’s question. This is as regards whether the Government is thinking of reviewing the boundaries for constituencies and so forth.

We have pleaded to all stakeholders to participate in the National Constitutional Conference (NCC). This is because issues such as this will be discussed and included in the final document. After this, the Electoral Commission of Zambia will take over and do the actual delimitation if that will be the decision. I know that the hon. Member who asked this question is a member, but may I take this opportunity, once again, to say that the door is still open for those who are not members …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … because the decision was that all hon. Members of Parliament should participate …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: … so that when we come here, we can talk more about development than politics. Therefore, I call upon all hon. Members to await the decision of the NCC on this particular question.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, is it not an opportune moment for the Vice-President to consider appointing a Salaries Review Commission in the light of salary distortions in the Public Service?

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I wish the hon. Member had asked this question a bit earlier when we had more time. This is a good question and I would have liked to give a longer and more satisfying answer. However, due to the shortage of time, I will merely say that the Government will consider this matter.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Has the hon. Member for Zambezi given up?


Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, what arrangements is the Vice-President making to airlift relief food to Zambezi West in view of the fact that it has been left out for a long time.

The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I will answer that question some other time.

I thank you, Sir.







192. Major Chibamba (Shiwang’andu) asked the Minister of Education when construction of the seventeen dilapidated schools in Shiwang’andu Parliamentary Constituency would commence since communities had already supplied building materials such as sand and crushed stones upfront.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the district has captured the seventeen dilapidated schools in Shiwang’andu Parliamentary Constituency in its 2008 Annual Work Plan adequately.

I thank you, Sir.


193. Mr Sichamba (Isoka West) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) when the following schools in Isoka West Parliamentary Constituency would be rehabilitated:

(i) Chaswata Basic School;

(ii) Nalutete Basic School;

(iii) Muyeleka Basic School;

(iv) Isoka High School;

(v) Nazarete Basic School; and

(vi) Nachisitu Basic School; and

(b) whether the Ministry had any plans to construct a high school for girls in Isoka West Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education has already started preparations for rehabilitation works at Nalutete Basic School which has been allocated K160 million and works are commencing by the end of March. Isoka High School has just been funded K100 million and works have started. The rest of the schools will be rehabilitated in phases as the ministry is currently conducting countrywide rehabilitation of school infrastructure through the District Education Boards’ plans.

Mr Speaker, with regard to part (b), the ministry has no plans at the moment to build a high school for girls in Isoka West Parliamentary Constituency.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Sichamba: Mr Speaker, the K100 million given to Isoka High School will not be enough to repair the damage caused by the heavy rains. What is the ministry doing to increase the funding to the school so that all the works which are being carried out, at least, are completed?

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, our rehabilitation programme is based on the bill of quantities that we receive from the various institutions through our offices. Clearly, Isoka High School will be addressed depending on the magnitude of the damage after assessment.

Mr Speaker, I should add here that we have a comprehensive Infrastructure Development Plan for 2008, which has captured all the necessary works that will be done in our various educational institutions.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, a lot of questions have been raised concerning the construction of basic and high schools and teachers’ houses. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when he will bring the plan to this House so that hon. Members of Parliament know what the ministry intends to do rather than asking the same questions all the time.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member is asking a question which is unrelated to the question on the Order Paper. However, if the hon. Minister has a general policy answer, he is free to respond.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, indeed, I have a positive answer to the hon. Member’s question. I have with me here a comprehensive infrastructure plan for the Ministry of Education for 2008, which captures the new schools and classrooms to be constructed, the new classrooms to be rehabilitated and all the various infrastructure development plans for 2008.

Mr Speaker, copies of this document will be made available to all hon. Members of Parliament next week hopefully by Tuesday, after being printed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what will happen to the secondary schools which were given money for rehabilitation last year and only part of it was used. Further, what remained was taken back to the treasury before the works were completed.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member for Chadiza is fishing in deep waters. I wish he was more specific by giving us specific situations to which we can respond with facts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Education said the Government has no immediate plans to construct a high school for girls in Isoka West Constituency and, indeed, in other constituencies. What is the Government’s immediate intervention now to ensure that a girl-child does access higher education before they construct the high school?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I thank Hon. Ntundu who wants to be informed of the Ministry of Education’s plans with regard to girl-child education. A lot of attention has been given to girl-child education in this country going all the way back to the 1980s through the Programme for Advancement Girls’ Education (PAGE), which has been encouraging girls to proceed in their schooling up to Grade 12 level. We have a number of other programmes like the Campaign for Girls’ Education which also encourages girls to continue with their education. We also have other programmes which come through Communities Supporting Health, HIV/AIDS, Nutrition, Gender and Equity in Schools (CHANGES) programme which encourages girls’ education. We have programmes like the Forum for Women Educationalists of Zambia (FAWEZA) which is there to encourage girls’ education.

There are bursaries programmes for girls. We even have programmes which enable the girl-child to go back to school after she delivers. All these are programmes which we have in schools to ensure that we adhere to our policy objective of equity in education provision with specific reference to the encouragement of girls’ education, access, participation and performance at the highest level possible in our educational system.

Mr Speaker, I would like to point out here that in last year’s examinations, at Grade 9 level, the highest scoring child in mathematics was a girl. She scored 96 per cent.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, this is part of the outcome of our policy on encouraging girls’ education.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has mentioned a lot of programmes that are encouraging girls’ education. Other than the Ministry building a boarding school for girls, how many of those programmes encouraging girls’ education are in Isoka West Constituency?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member, having been part of the implementing group of these programmes, knows very well how many programmes are in all parts of the country. They are part of our effort to encourage girls’ education, including 30 per cent admission places reserved for girls in all our universities. The 70 per cent are competed for equitably between boys and girls. This is a clear testimony of the commitment of this Government to gender equity.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


194. Mr Lubinda (Kabwata) asked the Minister of Lands what the legal ownership status of the land adjacent to the Baobab College along the Kafue Road in Lusaka was from 1964 to 2006.

The Deputy Minister of Lands (Mr Hamir): Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Order! Could you speak up hon. Minister?

Mr Hamir: … from 1964 to 1985, the land was the remaining extent of farm 401a which was held on title by John Henry Van Blerk. The farm was 1,014.8916 hectares in extent and in 1980, this remaining extent together with the remaining extent of farm 49a were consolidated to form farms 4300 and 4301. Upon consolidation, part of farm 401a was numbered as farm 4300 while farm 49a which was also held on title by John Henry Van Blerk from 1964 to 1984 together with part of farm 401a was numbered as farm 4301.

After consolidation, farm 4300 was held on title in 1985 by Jonathan Frank Van Blerk who assigned its subdivision A to Baobab Trust School Limited in July, 2000. In July 2005, a Supreme Court judgement in favour of the Government reverted the farm to the State. Following the reversion of this land to the State, the remaining extent of farm 4300 was re-planned into subdivisions B and C which in September, 2006, were leased to Legacy Holdings Zambia Limited and Kwickbuild Corporation Zambia respectively who currently are the title holders for these two subdivisions.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I wonder whether the hon. Minister would like to disclose that the Supreme Court judgement of 2005 actually reverted ownership of this land to the Lusaka City Council. Lusaka City Council had planned the land and advertised it to members of the public and more than 2,000 indigenous citizens applied for those plots and the Government later withdrew the ownership of land from Lusaka City Council. Following that process that was curtailed by Government, what process did the Government engage in to identify Legacy Holdings Zambia Limited and Kwickbuild Corporation Zambia to lease that land out and yet more than 2,000 residents of Lusaka had applied for that land?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Lands (Mr Machila): Mr Speaker, the judgement from the Supreme Court reverted that land to the State. Lusaka City Council is an agent for the State in land matters. Now, based on the agent-in-principle relationship, the Government is at liberty to terminate the agency as and when it sees fit.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, whilst appreciating the fact that the Government is at liberty to withdraw agency from the city council, can the hon. Minister, please, confirm whether it is Government’s unquivering position to ignore the plight of citizens who are in dire need of residential land in preference for foreign investors such as Legacy Holdings Zambia Limited and Kwickbuild Corporation Zambia?

Major Chizhyuka: Or Van Blerk!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, the developers who are putting up the construction at that land are building about 900 units of houses. Hon. Members will realise that it is not Government that is going to occupy those houses or even the developers, but it is the indigenous Zambian citizens who will have the opportunity to buy those properties.


Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! I could not hear the last part of the answer because of a very loud “hear, hear”.

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, the indigenous citizens of this nation will be at liberty to acquire those houses.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero): Mr Speaker, are Zambians going to get a better deal by subletting houses from foreign investors than building their own houses? Secondly, do the plans in Lusaka include schools and hospitals?

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, I am not exactly sure what the hon. Member referred to when she talked about subletting. The developers of these properties will be selling those houses …

Mr Lubinda: At a profit!

Mr D. Mwila: Balishitishe calo!

Hon. Opposition Members: At a profit!

Mr Machila: … at a profit because they are doing business. In doing so, they will fill up the meagre resources of the Lusaka City Council so that they can concentrate on providing better infrastructure in the other high density unplanned areas.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, when the hon. Minister was answering the question asked by the hon. Member for Matero, I heard one of my colleagues saying in Bemba that, “Bashitisha ichalo.”

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Although I do not understand Bemba, but I understood that very well meaning they are selling our country.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, does it not frighten the hon. Minister …

Mr D. Mwila: And Government!

Major Chizhyuka: … that Zambian prime land is moving from Van Blerk of South Africa to Legacy Holdings of the same country, knowing very well that Legacy Holdings is the same company which was embroiled in the confusion of the most prime land in Livingstone …

Mr Muyanda: Livingstone National Park.

Major Chizhyuka: … National Park? They are now bringing the same confusion to the capital city, Lusaka. Does it not frighten the hon. Minister of Lands as he discharges his functions that our land is being sold to foreigners?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, the title holders which is Legacy Holdings Zambia Limited is a Zambian limited company. As far as the land going to foreigners is concerned, I can literally repeat what I said earlier that the properties that will be developed on that land will be available for Zambians to purchase. By the time they complete those developments, it is likely to be at the end of this Parliament and some of the hon. Members sitting on your left, would be at liberty to use their accrued gratuity to buy property on that land.

I thank you, Sir.


Hon. Opposition Members: Obama!

Mr Kanyanyamina (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister said that 900 units of houses are being built by the land holder and will be rented to Zambians. Can he explain how he is going to empower the poor Zambians with land because the question at hand is, “how do you empower Zambians with land” and not a house?

Mr Mubika: Tom and Jerry!


Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, as Government, I think I had mentioned during my policy statement earlier this week that there are tracts of land around Lusaka that we have identified for purposes of entry and all compulsory acquisition. It is our vision that we shall be able to utilise some of the land to have large low cost developments so that we can have the new Kabwata, Lilanda and Chilenje. Therefore, the Government is alive to these issues and we are working. It is just that we do not talk about these issues everyday.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr F. R. Tembo: Quality.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether it is cheaper to put up your own house or to buy?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, it depends on where the land is. At the end of the day, it may be cheaper for you to build your own house and it may also be cheaper to buy, but there are other factors to consider in terms of the infrastructure that should be available in the locality where those developments are going to be undertaken. These are some of the issues that have been raised time and again and that is why we are facing the problems we have in Kanyama.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, there has been some controversy involving the Second Republican President …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, I was saying that there has been some controversy involving the Second Republican President who had wanted to get a piece of land there. According to press reports, the Government, through the Ministry of Works and Supply, went with him and approved that he gets a plot for his residence. Why is it that he was encouraged by one branch of Government that he could get a piece of land there while the ministry is saying that this land, in fact, belongs to Legacy Holdings Zambia Limited? How did this come about?

Mr Machila: Mr Speaker, the Second Republican President together with the First Republican President were allocated land for the development of their homes in the Leopards Hill area. The Second Republican President expressed interest in the land at Baobab. In turn, the ministry then engaged the title holders to see whether it would be feasible for them to extract an area of twenty-five hectares or over, even up to fifty hectares from the plan development which the title holders indicated that they would not be able to surrender in view of the impact that we would have on the envisioned development plans.

In showing the land to the Former Presidents, the Government did that in anticipation that it might come through. The fact that the President is entitled to land of his choice under the Former Presidents Benefits Act, does that mean he is entitled to any land of his choice?

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!




THE ROAD TRAFFIC (Amendment) BILL, 2008

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill, 2008. The object of this Bill is to amend the Road Traffic Act, 2002 so as to revise the taxes payable per annum in respect of vehicles, motor vehicles and trailer licences.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Communications, Transport Works and Supply. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 19th March, 2008. Hon. Members, who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.





THE INCOME TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2008

Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 22 ─ (Amendment of Charging Schedule)

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 22, on page 15, from line 8 to line 23, by the deletion of paragraph (c) and the substitution therefor of the following paragraph:

(c) in paragraph 3:

(i) by the deletion of clause (e) and the substitution therefor of the following clause:

(e) where the income from mining operations does not exceed eight per centum of the gross sales, at the rate of thirty per centum per annum;

(ii) by the insertion after clause (e) of the following new clause:

(f) where the income from mining operations exceeds eight per centum of the gross sales, at the rate determined in accordance with the following formula:

  y=the tax rate to be applied per annum;
  b=8%; and
c=the percentage ratio of the assessable income to gross sales:

Provided that where any person has paid windfall tax in accordance with section sixty-four B on any base metal or precious metal in any charge year in respect of that charge year, the rate applicable to income from such base metal or precious metal shall be thirty per centum per annum; and

(iii) by the re-numbering of clause (f) as (g).

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 22, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.


Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 1 in the Appendix on page 17, in line 16, by the deletion of the formula and substitution therefor of the following:

   MAP = Q1P1+Q2P2+Q3P3…+Qn-1Pn-1+QnPn

Amendment agreed to. Appendix on page 17 amended accordingly.

Appendix on page 17, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Appendix on page 18 ordered to stand part of the Bill.


Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 3 in the Appendix on page 19, in line 11, by the deletion of the formula and substitution therefor of the following:

   MAP = Q1P1+Q2P2+Q3P3…+Qn-1Pn-1+QnPn

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC., (Chasefu): Madam Chairperson, in part II the word “Colbalt” should read as “Cobalt”.

The Chairperson: Mr Banda, spellings is a secretariat issue.

Amendment agreed to. Appendix on page 19 amended accordingly.

Appendix on page 19, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Appendix on page 20 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Appendix ,as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.


Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Appendix I ordered to stand part of the Bill.

APPENDIX II ─ (Section 5)

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Appendix 2, on page 8, by the deletion of the Export Tariff table and the substitution therefor of the following:


HeadingNo. HSCode Description of Goods StatisticalUnits ofQuality ExportDutyRate Remarks
1.                             12..07                                1207.20.002.                             26.03                                2603.00.003.                             52.01                                5201.00.004.                             72.04                                7204.10.00                                7204.21.00                                7204.29.00                                7204.30.00                                7204.41.00                                7204.49.00                                7204.50.005.                             74.01                                7401.00.006.                             74.02                                7402.00.007.                             74.04                                7404.00.008.                             76.02                                7602.00.009.                             79.02                                7902.00.00 Other oil seed andoleaginous fruits,whether or not broken-Cotton seedCopper ores andconcentrates Cotton, not carded orcombedFerrous waste andscrap. Remeltingscrape ingots of iron orsteel.- Waste of cast iron- Waste and scrap alloySteel:-- Of stainless steel-- Other- Waste and scrap of   tinned iron or steel - Other waste and scrap-- Turnings, shavings,   chips, milling waste,   sawdust, fillings,   trimmings and   stampings, whether   or not in bundles-- Other- Remelting scrapingotsCopper mattes;cement copper(precipitated copper)Unrefined copper;copper anodes forelectrolytic refiningCopper waste andscrap.Aluminium waste andscrapZinc waste and scrap KgTonnesKgKgKgKgKgKgKgKgTonneTonneKgKgKg 15%15%15%*******15%15%****** 


 *25% or K80,000.00 (eighty thousand kwacha) per tonne, whichever is greater
**25% or K1,000,000 (one million kwacha) per tonne, whichever is greater


Amendment agreed to. Appendix II amended accordingly.

Appendix II, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE VALUE ADDED TAX (Amendment) BILL, 2008

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Amendment of Section 2)

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on page 3, in line 24, by the insertion of the word “not” between the words “does” and “retain”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clauses 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments:

The Income Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2008

The Customs and Excise Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2008

The Value Added Tax (Amendment) Bill, 2008
Report Stages on Tuesday, 11th March, 2008.




VOTE 78 – (Zambia Security Intelligence Services – Office of the President – K209,069,193,507).

(Consideration resumed)

Dr Chishimba (Kasama): Madam Chairperson, may I just say that may the peace of God, God the Father, God the Son and the Holy Spirit continue to be with us.


Dr Chishimba: Madam Chairperson, when business adjourned yesterday, I was just saying that collecting of information in the Zambia Security Intelligence Services is very costly. The organisation must be adequately supported in order for it to operate effectively and efficiently so that the valuable information which is needed for our country to make important decisions is collected and, of course, advice given so that the measures or actions that are taken help our country move forward.

Madam Chairperson, in giving an example of what happened to the children of Israel, I said that you cannot say those spies who were sent to go and spy on Jericho and the land, in general, were corrupt for offering harlots some kind of favour in exchange for what they did for them. Neither can you say that Joshua as the King was corrupt. That is not it.

What am I trying to say? In other words, when you are talking about the operations of the organization, what you may term as corruption is not corruption in as far as the operations of the organisation is concerned. The very nature of the operations is secretive. Some of the targets or agents who may be required to be recruited to be providers of critical information may not be easy targets in the sense that, probably, because of the positions that they occupy or certain accesses that they have, they may demand a lot.

Someone may demand a car, as I said, and another a house and, of course, much as you may look at this to be a big cost, it is a cost which is not too high to pay as His Honour the Vice-President put it. When we are talking about matters of a security nature, there is no price which is too high to pay.

Now, I was saying that the system plays a critical role in helping our country to pull down the Jerichos which we face in our country. What are these Jerichos? The Jerichos of Zambia include anything which is a threat to the security of the nation. The Jerichos of this country include talks which may polarise our people; any talks which may throw our country into chaos. The system has a role to play in ensuring that peace and security are maintained in our country. Therefore, we must, at all cost, as Zambians, parliamentarians and leaders be responsible enough and make sure that the organisation operates as professionally as it is supposed to without any political interference.

Madam Chairperson, we face today one critical Jericho or wall which we must break. Slowly, we are building what I would call barriers amongst ourselves. Instead of being our brothers’ keepers, we are creating enemies among ourselves. What I would call ethnocentrism must be stopped in this country. We want to use, for instance, our cultures to judge the cultures of other people. 

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishimba: Whilst we stand up and condemn, for instance, others that they are nepotists, we forget that we are also the worst nepotists. We must, firstly, look at our own organisations, operations and what surrounds us before we can judge others. It is not right in a country which is founded on the Lordship of Jesus Christ to begin to look at others, for instance, to be a tribal group. What centres are we using? If, for instance, we say that this particular organisation is regional, we may be forgetting that probably our own organisation is also regional.

Major Chizhyuka:  Hear, hear!

Dr Chishimba: What we need is to stop such talks and begin to work together as a country, if peace and security is to prevail.

Madam Chairperson, we want to reach a stage in this country where my children, hon. Chizhyuka’s children and the children of the south and north, east and west must sit on the same table and look at the common enemies which they face.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishimba: The common enemy is poverty and lack of water and sanitation. These are the issues that we must look at. We must not entertain the culture of violence which I referred to in my last debate. For instance, Chibuku Shake Shake political warfare or machetes …


Dr Chishimba: … cannot be entertained in a democracy. This is a democratic country and this is a reality which we must actually live with and look at issues which confront us instead of name calling. Let us face them.

The Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member’s time has expired.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Madam Chairperson, I thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to contribute to this debate and, indeed, to support the vote for this department.

It is a pleasure to come to debate after my highly learned colleague, Mr Chifumu Banda, SC., has done so eloquently and my very philosophical brother, Dr Chishimba, has just concluded.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Madam Chairperson, this particular department is probably the most despised and feared in Zambia. I am not saying that they should be despised, but it is a fact that if you went to an average Zambian, they will tell you that they do not like this department or they fear it. There is, therefore, a need for the department to work on its image because such departments are required in every country. Unfortunately, in our country, the image we have of the Zambia Security Intelligence Services is that of a fearful organisation. There is no attempt at public relations at all done by the department. Even if one goes through the Yellow Book, there is no vote for the Public Relations Department in the organisation and I think that this is something which is needed greatly.

Madam Chairperson, there is a lot that they can do in terms of public relations, for example, concerning some of the things they have done in the past which helped to keep the country together or save it from attacks from the racialist Southern African and Portuguese governments. Some of those things happened 40 years ago and so on. They should be able to release some details now to make people aware that, in fact, this organisation has helped to serve Zambia at certain stages. Without that kind of public relations, they will continue to be the most despised and feared department in Zambia.

Madam Chairperson, people should be made to feel that they are partners with this department. Again, that requires public relations on the part of this organisation because it cannot function properly if people do not regard it to be a partner in the security of our country.

Madam Chairperson, it is also important for it to reach out to the various political parties and politicians because these are very important actors in the security of our nation. If this organisation does not develop links with the various political parties, there will be this mistrust between the political parties and the organisation. We should get to the stage where each political party will feel very comfortable with the Zambia Security Intelligence Services. If you look at other countries like the United States of America, right now for example, you have John McCain, Hilary Clinton and Barak Obama having secret service details. It is given to them and none of them has said, “I do not want this. These people may do me harm.” That is because of the level of confidence that the secret service there has been able to engender amongst political parties.

Hon. Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota:  It will be a great success in our nation when you have the Zambia Security Intelligence Services attaching itself to protect opposition political leaders and opposition political leaders gladly accepting them without any fear. That is when we will be able to say that it has been a success.

Madam Chairperson, there is also a need for the Zambia Security Intelligence Services to be giving security briefs not only to the party in power, but also opposition political parties. This will help make the opposition know what is going on and be ready when it is their turn to step into the corridors of power. It will help them know exactly what the state of the nation is and what is required to be done to maintain peace in this country.

Madam Chairperson, this is not something which is odd or unique. If you go to advanced democracies, this is a regular feature. Of course, it is not all information which should be given to the opposition parties, but there are certain different grades of information and only basic information should be given. This will also help to bring about continuity even when there is change of Government. If this relationship is built up, even when the United Liberal Party (ULP) comes into Government, there will be no need …


Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Wasteful thinking!

Mr Sikota: Even when ULP comes into Government in 2011, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: … there will be absolutely no need for a wholesale cleaning up of the Zambia Security Intelligence Services. That is because there has been this confidence which has been built between the people so that one would know that these are professionals. Even with a change of Government, there will be no need for them to start running around shredding files before new leaders come into office because it will be business as usual.

Mrs J. C. M. Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: This will also help to bring about stability in our country if we can have institutions such as these ones continue even after a change of government. It is very important that we invest in continuity and security of our country. This will also help in having an orderly handover of power. Indeed, when it comes to times of elections, it is very important for the Zambia Security Intelligence Services to be ready to contact whoever has won the elections and make them know what the current situation in the country is and so on. This should be done once there is even an inclination that these are the ones who are winning.

In 2001, there was no attempt by the Zambia Security Intelligence Services to make contact with the United Party for National Development (UPND), for example, who looked very much like they were about to get into power. In 2006, again there was a very strong possibility that the Patriotic Front (PF) was going to be the party in Government. Again, there was no attempt at any kind of contact. I think that was a lapse on the part of the Zambia Security Intelligence Services because their role then would have been to facilitate a smooth handover. It is very important.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to turn to one of the areas where I think the Zambia Security Intelligence Services should turn their attention. We have seen a growing spectre of violence and intimidation in our by-elections and general elections. This certainly is a very big threat to the security of our country. We have seen what has happened just very close by in Kenya if that is not nipped in the bud.

It is important, Madam Chairperson, that the Zambia Security Intelligence Services starts to look into the various political parties and identify those who are promoting violence and training youths to be violent cadres because we do not need that kind of culture in Zambia. If the Zambia Security Intelligence Services does not help us to stop this culture, it could lead us into the sorry scenes we have seen in Kenya.

Any political party which truly loves Zambia will support the fact that the Zambia Security Intelligence Services should aggressively …

Madam Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.


Mr Sikota: Madam Chairperson, when His Honour the Vice-President was reading the policy statement for the Zambia Security Intelligence Services, he stated that Zambia was considered a low risk country. Indeed, this is true, but I would like to point out that Kenya was considered to be even a lower risk country than Zambia. However, we have seen what has happened. Therefore, we should not be complacent just because we are considered a low risk country at the moment. Even a country, such as Ivory Coast, which was considered to be a low risk country, experienced turmoil. This happens if we do not have measures taken against things which can lead to turmoil.

The greatest security threat to our country is because our politicians are not putting the country first. Their narrow interests are considered paramount. As a result, they are willing to win elections at any cost. If it means sending people in with machetes and knobkerries, they are willing to do so. The culture that is being spread could lead us into a very unfortunate situation. It is, therefore, incumbent on the Zambia Security Intelligence Services to save us from that kind of situation by identifying quickly those parties which see violence as a means of getting to power. This organisation should identify the individuals within those parties who are training people and spoiling the minds of our youths.

In so doing, the Zambia State Intelligence Services will help us to keep the peace we have known since 1964.

Madam Chairperson, in 2011, the Unilateral Liberal Party (ULP) would like to compete in an atmosphere where there is no violence. We are very confident that in such an atmosphere, the superior ideas we have and policies will lead to this country putting in a ULP Government. At that stage, we shall require the Zambia State Intelligence Services to give us a full brief of the state of the nation so that we continue to lead this country in peace to prosperity.

With these few remarks, I thank you, Madam.

Mr Ngoma (Sinda): Madam Chairperson, in the first place, I want to commend the authority that be for making it possible for this House to consider this vote because it was taboo in the First Republic to do that.

Madam Chairperson, I rise to add my voice on this very important vote. I want to say, from the onset, that I totally support this vote. Only someone who does not understand the need for intelligence gathering will toy with the idea that we should cut funding to this very important institution. This institution is everywhere in the land.  It is in the hospitals, schools, markets, Judiciary and in the Legislature. This means that we cannot do without it

Mr C. K. B. Banda: Even in the bedroom!


Mr Ngoma: Madam Chairperson, the intelligence wing is everywhere in the world. Even in the most developed countries of the world, this institution does exist. We have heard in the United States of America about the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) and the Federal Bureau of Investigations (FBI). In the United Kingdom, we have heard about the British Secret Services and we have heard about the KGB in Russia and the former Soviet Union. In Israel, we have heard about the highly sophisticated Mossad. We have also heard about the M5. The list goes on and on much to the pride, joy and satisfaction of the citizens of those countries. This is because the intelligence systems there are so patriotic and sensitive to the needs of the state and its people. All this goes to show the importance of intelligence.

However, on the local front or scene in Zambia here, there is generally a negative perception about the service. The negative perception is not only from the citizens in general, but also from the Government to the point of unmasking the service. This is bad and should not be allowed to continue. What we need in Zambia today is a professional patriotic career intelligence service. We do not need an intelligence service which acts like a party cadre.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: This is a very important institution because it is everywhere in this country and, therefore, it would become very dangerous if the service acted like a party cadre. For instance, in times of elections, members of the service whom we might know very well are very keen to associate only probably with the ruling party. That is very dangerous for this country. We do not need an intelligence service whose preoccupation is to undermine the activities of its own citizens.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: Madam Chairperson, we do not need an intelligence service which in election time, would want to participate in the manipulation of election results in favour …
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: … of the opposition or the ruling party. What we need, as I said earlier, is a professional career intelligence service to protect the State and the lives of Zambians.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: Madam, I am sure most of us have heard the names the service has earned over a period of time. There are names such as baka mucheka and ba shushushu. These are not good names, but they have been earned over a period of time. This is because of the misconception leading to a negative perception the public has about the service. There is, therefore, a very serious challenge on the part of management of this institution to work hard to correct this misconception. The only way out to avoid this is to encourage professionalism and patriotism in the service. There is need for restraint on the part of the service personnel.

Madam Chairperson, all in this House need to support this service. The service is a forewarning machinery to safeguard the interests of this nation. 
Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Ngoma: Madam, only a few months ago, a simple decision by one zealous individual in the Democratic Republic of Congo brought unprecedented congestion at the Kasumbalesa Border Post. There were billions of kwacha lost due to that act. Much as Zambia could not have stopped that, but we need an effective intelligence system to even forewarn the country of such issues. This is a job of the service. Therefore, Government should increase funding for the service because even foreign operations need to be covered. Today, there is global terrorism and it is the duty of the service to help this country not to experience this in 2011.

Madam, only a few months ago, our Republican President, His Excellency the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., officially launched the Information and Communication Technology Policy. This means that things have changed and the world environment is getting technologically advanced. In such an environment, it is costly to run this wing, hence the need for more funds.

Madam, being in a global village, we should not be naïve to think that countries around us are so excited about our progress. The interest of the country should be guarded jealously. There is growing competition between us and surrounding countries in the region, such as Africa, and in the world at large. Worse still, there are even military conflicts which can easily spill over to us. At times, such competition can lead to economic sabotage.

Madam, only few weeks ago, we had some very sinister power blackouts and a few days later, the President said that there was sabotage. Such things need to be checked. Therefore, the need for an efficient, effective and responsive service to support the state cannot be over emphasised.

Madam Chairperson, there could be groupings aimed on bringing disharmony and instability among our nationals both within and outside Zambia. Right now, our country has been politically dissected. Politics are being conducted based on regions, perhaps, with the exception of the wise Eastern Province.


Mr Ngoma: Madam Chairperson, this as innocent as it may appear, …

Mr Muyanda: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muyanda:  Madam Chairperson, I rarely rise on a point of order. However, is the hon. Member of Parliament, who is debating very intelligently and wisely, in order to insinuate and even attack other regions by saying that Zambia is now heading for political turmoil because there is regionalism except in Eastern Province? Is he in order when, time and again, you have  …

Mr Matongo: They have been rewarded with a Vice-President.


Mr Muyanda: Is the hon. Member in order to suggest that Eastern Province is free of tribalism when it has been rewarded with a very honourable …


Mr Muyanda: … Vice-President who is not a tribalist? Is the hon. Member in order to suggest that there is tribalism in other parts of the country? I need your serious ruling, Madam.


The Chairperson: Having listened very carefully from the beginning to the end of this point of order, the Chair is persuaded to understand that the hon. Member who has raised the point of order seems to have the same idea …


The Chairperson: … because he has ended with commending one hon. Member in this House from Eastern Province as not being a tribalist.


The Chairperson: However, the hon. Member debating should not in any way insinuate that Zambia is made up of tribal and regional groupings. Zambia is one. It is more in the minds of some of you who may feel that Zambia is dividing when, in fact, it is getting more infused. The regions and tribes are becoming more united. You will not identify Zambians any more by name or region. Therefore, we are one Zambia. The hon. Member who is debating is proud to be part of Eastern Province which is not tribalist. However, all the other regions are also not tribalist.

The hon. Member may continue.


Mr Ngoma: Madam Chairperson, I was saying that the threat of regionalism as innocent as it may appear is a very serious one which, if left unchecked, could plunge this country into total chaos and anarchy. This has to be stopped by gathering intelligence on where the motto “One Zambia One Nation” has gone.

Madam Chairperson, above all, we have debated in this House that the police, army, nurses, teachers and Judges need to be well remunerated. Equally, we need to remunerate the intelligence service sufficiently. If anything, due to the nature of work that the service does, it deserves even better remuneration. These people do not even have a union to speak on their behalf. Failure to do so, the country risks not meeting the Vision 2030 due to the various threats around us.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, allow me to say that …

Mr Shakafuswa: Continue.

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Ngoma: … much as the intelligence service might appear evil, especially in the eyes of the Zambians, it is a necessary organisation because we need it in the protection and development of the State and its citizens.

Madam Chairperson, with these few remarks, I thank you.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for according me this opportunity to make my position clear on Head 78 ─ Zambia Security Intelligence Services ─ Office of the President.

Madam Chairperson, in the first instance, I would like to state clearly that I am in full support of this vote on the Floor of the House.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda:  I wish the amount that has been allocated this year could be doubled.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: There are a number of significant reasons why I am supporting the Office of President. One of them which I will briefly talk about is that the institution should not be for one political party. It should not create paranoid among the citizens of the country and the fear of unknown that the Office of the President will clear me anytime …


Mr Muyanda: …or the fear on the Floor of this House that I will be executed miraculously after this debate.


Mr Muyanda: We need total confidence in the Office of the President. It is a national security wing which we should all embrace. It should also play a very significant role of advising the Government diligently.

Madam Chairperson, I will single out one other item. Today, as I stand here, if you went to any public institution like the Boma, near the Fly Over Bridge on Church Road, you will find the Zambian Flag flying, fragmented. If you go there, you will find that it is just a piece of flag. The Office of the President should advise the Government that it is a disgrace for a nation like Zambia that has been living in harmony for over 40 years to have a piece of a flag flying.

Mr Matongo: As if the nation is torn apart.

Mr Muyanda: That means the nation is in pieces. The Office of the President should be the first to advise the Government that all Government institutions must have proper flags flying at high mast. Today, we see some of our colleagues wearing American flags on their neck ties, but what about the Zambian flag which is the pride of being a Zambian?


Mr Muyanda: Madam Chairperson, I am a patriot whose parentage is unquestionable. I come from the valley in Sinazongwe District. You can check the graves where my parents are lying and resting in peace. 

Further, the Office of the President should also advise political parties not to adopt certain parliamentarians whose parentage is dubious. They come masquerading as Zambians and start causing problems to this nation, but whose parentage is dubious. We do not even know how they came, whether in crates or containers, but they claim to be Zambians. The duty of the Office of the President, in the interest of the nation, is to advise all political parties in good faith that the men and women who are coming to this august House are honourable and their parentages are correctly certified. They should carry the emblem of the motherland in their hearts.

That is my stand as a Member of Parliament commissioned by this august House to represent the people of Sinazongwe.

Major Chizhyuka: Where did Hitler come from?


Mr Muyanda: Lastly, I want to advise the Office of the President. Please, allow me to say that Zambia is for all Zambians. There should be no organisation that is growing strength to strength by employing relatives or people of one clan. If you went into some of these offices, you will find that some people have forgotten English as the official language.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: It is my desire that the Office of the President should advise the President, Cabinet and other members of Government that tribalism should not be encouraged.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: The official language is English. Why do you want to use other languages in public offices?

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: The Office of the President should advise those perpetrators allowing tribalism in Government to desist from using their languages. We want English to be used in Government offices.

I thank you, Madam.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Defence (Mr Akakandelwa): Thank you, Madam Chairperson

Madam, I stand to support the vote for Zambia Security Intelligence Services.

Madam Chairperson, security is every Zambian’s business. It is not only for those that are enlisted to serve in this service. If we take security as our business, Zambia will be impenetrable. Therefore, my appeal to everyone is to be security conscious and patriotic. Then, we will make all those actual and specific enemies find Zambia very difficult to penetrate.

Secret security is a business in every society and by the nature of its job, it will have negative connotations. Some people have referred to it as shushushu, kamucheka and kuunu in Lozi …


Mr Akakandelwa: … meaning we do not know. However, this should not paint the negative picture of the organisation. This organisation is there for everyone’s security and for the better of this country.

Madam Chairperson, the Office of the President operates very professionally …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: … and does this for the sole purpose of ensuring that this country remains stable and conducive for every Zambian regardless of their political affiliations or, indeed, their tribes.

Madam, it is for this reason that this country has remained stable in comparison to other countries within or outside Africa. Therefore, we should not doubt the professionalism of this organisation. We must give credit where it is due. If some people harbour negative feelings about this organisation, then that is their nature.

Madam Chairperson, as Zambia registers economic growth, we should be aware of all sorts of people who will be visiting us in the name of investors and tourists or people visiting their relatives. Some mean well, but others may be envious of our economic gains and would, therefore, want to sabotage all the good things that this country is doing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: Madam, this is a very serious warning.

In the banking sector, we used to send notices or security awareness information against fraudsters towards Christmas which is a festive season because that is the time when business is rife. This is for our country’s economy which is on the upswing. Therefore, my earnest and humble appeal to everyone is to be on the lookout collectively. If you come across any information that should help the security officers, please, give it free of charge. If you want to cost it, it is up to you, but remember that you are doing it for yourself, your children and the country.

With these few remarks, Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): Madam Chairperson, thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak on this vote. I will be very brief.

Madam, I listened very attentively to the speech read by His Honour the Vice-President yesterday. Maybe, it could be better if he circulated that paper to all the branches of the Service so that it permeates to the lowest level to understand who they are, ...

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: … what they are supposed to be and why there is an Act for them. His Honour the Vice-President read yesterday what is key to the service. What you read yesterday is different from the way the service operates.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: This is why I want to be very brief. Your paper must go to the lowest level of the service and must be critically understood.

Ever since this vote has been in place, I have never heard anything read like what you did yesterday.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: That is what the service is supposed to be like.

Now, unfortunately, the Zambia Security Intelligence Services as many people have said has earned itself a very bad name. This is not just today, but our historical background. From 1964 to 1972, the service was operating in a normal manner. When we went into the One-Party State, the service operated quite differently. It became very oppressive and, in some instances, people stopped thinking because they were meant to understand that even if you were thinking alone, the members of the Zambia Security Intelligence Services were listening to you.


Mr Syakalima: That is what actually used to happen. Unfortunately, after all those years of re-documenting ourselves, as Zambians, we became afraid. Each time one is labelled to be a special branch, people would scamper. At some point, people would be seen imagining people following them. That is the name this service earned itself. Now, old habits die hard. So, when we came into multi-party system, they were carried forward. This is why some hon. Members are encouraging training and retraining …

Mr Sejani: Yes.

Mr Syakalima: … so that we fit in this new dispensation of a multi-party state. Obviously, we were drunk with the habits of the one-party State. It is not very easy to actually conjure yourselves, but this is the time that our security intelligence services did this. Some of us have taught security and intelligence at certain levels and so we understand how important the service can be. It is very important, but it must fit in within this new dispensation.

Madam Chairperson, I will say one thing. The Zambia Security Intelligence Services must be advisory. I just want to borrow some words from Hon. Sakwiba Sikota. What happened in Kenya when the results were being counted was that the Electoral Commission at some point blacked out the release of the results. Immediately they opened up, they said somebody else was actually edging the other one. It is very important in such circumstances because even ourselves, at some point, we hear that in this country. The security intelligence services must be at hand to quickly tell the Electoral Commission, if they are not aware, that there will be chaos in the land, …

Mr Sejani: If they are not involved themselves.

Mr Syakalima: … if they are not involved themselves. However, in most cases, they lapse and this has happened in so many countries. It is not only Kenya, but it is only that our colleagues have been very unfortunate. We will also be unfortunate one day. The people who will make us unfortunate unfortunately are these same people.

When you lapse in the way elections are being conducted, as a state security, when there is acrimony like it happened in Kenya, even members of your own family sometimes are involved and so one cannot say that he is not involved because it is only in Kibera. Your own son would stray in Kibera and then hit. Therefore, it is important for the Government to look at this wing.

The other problem that we have is the name - Zambia Security Intelligence Service – Office of the President. . Maybe, we must change this because for many people, when they see that you work under the Office of the President, it is like your leaning is to one person.

Mr Shakafuswa: No, it is the office.

Mr Syakalima: Just listen.

The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Syakalima: This is a very serious issue. I am just suggesting here …

The Chairperson: Can you continue.

Mr Syakalima: Madam Chairperson, I am just suggesting that the organisation has earned itself a very bad name. I am saying that the name can be changed, but it will still earn itself a bad name. If, for example, Office of the President changes to State Department, we can change the thinking of the people. This is because whether you like it or not, the perception is bad right now …

Mr Hamududu: Yes.

Mr Syakalima: … and perceptions grow fast. Some people would say that I hate people who work under this department because of the perception. Some people think about this rather than you who is educated because you think that we must be thinking on behalf of others. For instance, I have literally no problem calling it Office of the President. However, how about another person who is not as fortunate as I am who went to school?

What we are stating is that we must, first of all, change our colleagues in the service. They must perceive that this is a multi-party system. The perception that the Zambians have is different. I was just telling you the historical background. Those are stark realities. If we changed even the way the Zambians actually embrace the service, this would be better.

Madam Chairperson, you will appreciate that under our security wing, it is only the Zambia Army, Zambia Air force and, to some extent, the Zambia National Service, who still have kept a good name for themselves. The Zambia Police and this service have earned themselves a very bad name over the years. These are the two wings of our national security. However, to change the perception of the Zambians’ way of thinking, you require to do this.

As His Honour the Vice-President stated yesterday, the mines will be taxed and you have heard the way some people are resisting. This is the service that can help us because an enemy might not only come from outside, but the biggest enemy can be ourselves. This enemy is inside; he wears the same jacket as yourself, he speaks the same language and you eat nshima with him. The outside world would use ourselves. If you have read on the issue of taxation, who are outsiders using? It is fellow Zambians. They are the ones who are arguing that the Government should not tax the mines. Zambians, your own country!


Mr Syakalima: Therefore, this service is extremely important and the Zambians must be free to inform the security personnel about what they hear. Obviously, we know what it does and people can go and cheat, but we know how they sieve. They will know what chaff is. However, an ordinary Zambian should know that there is an office to report what they gather.

As indicated by other hon. Members who spoke before me, partisan politics are not good. This office is a State security wing. This is not a secret service. If it was a secret service the way it appeared in the First Republic, we would not be debating it. These are the people we eat nshima and do several things with.

Lastly, my appeal to His Honour the Vice-President is that what you read out yesterday must permeate to the lowest level so that the people understand the purpose of this office. It is a State security intelligence wing. You must also consider removing the word “Office of the President”. You much change it to something else so that the Zambians change their way of thinking and perception about the service.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President (Mr R. Banda): I thank you, Madam Chairperson, for giving me this opportunity to wind up the debate on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Zambia Security Intelligence Services.

I am pleased that the debates on both the Ministry of Defence and Zambia Security Intelligence Services have been considered simultaneously. I would like to begin by responding to the first speaker in support of these two institutions. I would like to thank him because I think we all agree to a certain extent that these two services are the defenders of the interests of the Zambian people.

I want to thank Hon. Kasongo for his very eloquent defence of the Ministry of Defence budget and thank all the hon. Members who have spoken on this particular vote. I also thank Hon. Chifumu Banda for his remarks. His advice, in his first speech, has been followed by all other hon. Members. The common word in all the speeches made by all of us here is that the service should be non-partisan.

I want to join other hon. Members by assuring them that in my dealings with the service, I am extremely impressed by its own willingness to continue to evolve itself into a service for all of us. I think many of the hon. Members here know that I have been around for quite some time and so I know something about many of the things that we are talking about. I can assure the House that the manner of operation of this service is now different from the way it used to operate in the past.

I have been privileged, since my appointment as Vice-President, to have closed two training sessions of intelligence officers. As you know, they are normally opened procedurally by His Excellency the President and closed by the Vice-President. I can assure the House, and I think I have said this to other people privately, that I am extremely impressed with the levels that these officers have achieved in evolving themselves as a national service to look after the common interests of all the political parties in the country.

I also enjoyed a period of being non-political. I was at home for some time on my farm and I can say that there was not one evening when I was worried that perhaps just because I have quarreled with somebody at a pub or some other place, somebody would go and call his or her relatives in the intelligence service to come to my house and ask me questions. Many of the issues that the hon. Members have raised here do not exist now. That is why we are able to speak the way we are doing now. We know very well that our freedom is entrenched in our Constitution and will continue to be entrenched in whatever constitution will evolve from the National Constitutional Conference (NCC). We also know that our intelligence service is going to be neutral and provide us with the necessary protection that we need.

The hon. Members have praised our men in uniform because they defend us. Automatically, I presume they are praising our men in plain clothes who are dressed in jackets as ourselves. As one hon. Member said, these are exactly the same. They are protecting us to ensure that our country does not find itself in problems in the future.

Dr Chishimba, whom somebody called a bishop, strongly urged that we support this service and he was supported by other hon. Members. There is no hon. Member who is not in support of this service. If I did not listen carefully, please correct me. All of us have agreed to support this service and some have even gone further to say that, in fact, what has been allocated is inadequate.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: I hope that tells us that we should support the current request for these officers.

Hon. Sakwiba Sikota correctly said that some people in our society, and I think it is better to say some and not everybody, perceive the intelligence service in a negative manner. He went on to say that this is merely a perception arising from the historical factors of our existence as a nation. I think we have a big role to play and are doing so today by the discussions that we have had. We have a big role to play as hon. Members of Parliament and leaders in all our constituencies to inform the people that this country has changed for the better and we should not be ashamed of that.

Those countries that have found themselves in problems have done so because they have not looked at their past and criticised themselves for their present. Therefore, they get caught up in the future. Fortunately, as a Zambian, I can proudly say to any African that even during those very difficult days when we were faced with enemies right around us, when we were in a one party State and so forth, Zambians still found a way to speak. If our ancestors who never lived in a multi-party State were to awaken from the dead and listened to the debates in this House, they would not believe that they are in Zambia because we have advanced and we all accept that.

Kenya was referred to here that it is a lower risk country than us. I must confess that I have not been able to read about this, but I do not believe that we are in the ranking for risk countries. Theirs would be lower than ours because they have had an attack from outside. They had an alleged Al-Qaeda attack and many people died. We have not had those kinds of things here and, therefore, I believe that the statement that we are considered to be a lower risk country is correct. It is for this reason that we are going through this process to ensure that our service is properly and adequately supported so that we continue to be a lower risk country. All of us should inform our people ─ of course those who care to listen to us as leaders ─ that this particular service belongs to all of us and we should use it.

In a similar debate we had a year ago, in support of the same institution, I told the hon. Members to trust me. I told the hon. Members to try the intelligence officers by going to them and discussing with them. None of the officers can ever tell an hon. Member that he or she has no right to talk to them because they support the Government. They are there for all of us and at our disposal. They have to assist us and analyse the situation in the country. Even for our debates here, we need information, guidance and so on. They are available to you. Of course, there may be certain individuals who might not be accommodative, but that is the case with all of us, we are individuals and we may be different in the manner we look at things.

I also want to say that I will fail in my remarks if I do not recognise what Hon. Muyanda said, particularly that there was political execution at the time when he was about to be elected and that he might be in the intelligence service or somebody might say something bad about him. I would worry more about the problems within our political parties. Those who were politically executed at that time, it is not because the intelligence service spread malice against them, but it is usually ourselves in a bid to out-manoeuvre the other person or ensure that the candidate who stands is the one preferable to us. Consequently, many people lose their positions as candidates. Sometime, candidates come in as a result of this misinformation due to political selfishness resulting in a political party choosing a candidate who is going to lose. We have many of those examples seated here with us.

Hon. Government Members: Yes.

The Vice-President: Some of them stood as independents because their political parties refused to make them stand and what happened is that they moved elsewhere and still won. The enemy is within us and not from outside or the service.

I heard somebody refer to what happened in the past that our service should have warned them when they saw that they were about to win. However, we all knew that although they looked like they were about to win, they did not win. Therefore, had the service intervened, it would have been accused that they went to have a discussion with somebody who was supposed to win when he did not win. Is it not better to stay put and wait until people decide? After this, that is when they should go and advise whichever party has been elected by the people.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: The truth is that anyone of us who will form a government one day ─ and I heard my brother Hon. Sakwiba say that when his political party wins, he is going to expect them to advise him ─ I am sure they will be available to you.

The service is similar to the Civil Service. The Secretary to the Cabinet and Cabinet Office are all in the Office of the President, but they are there for all of us, including all the political parties. One may wonder why the Secretary to the Cabinet is seen more with the Vice-President. This is only for administrative convenience because the Vice-President is in the ruling party and has to make the necessary policies to make this country move.

I can assure hon. Members that there is a deliberate attempt by this service, the Civil Service and all of us to make our country free. Freedom is like love. I overheard someone telling me that I should not love my daughter too much because I will spoil her. There is no limit to love. You must love your family. The more love you give them, the better for them in the future.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Vice-President: The same goes for freedom. There has never been a point where somebody, unless he wants to dictate to you, will tell you that because of this and that, there is too much freedom. Freedom is infinite. The more freedom we have the more productive and united we shall become and so on.

Today, United States of America is able to provide intelligence security to all the candidates because the candidates themselves believe in it. We too, here, if anyone of us asked for the police and intelligence, they will provide whatever you require from them.

May I conclude by saying that we have all agreed that we should give more money to the service. The money that has been allocated this year is not enough. I can count on all of us to support this professional service. All the points that have been made have been noted. I am sure it is the ambition of every officer worth his name in this service to listen to what has been said.

Let me also take this opportunity to thank all hon. Members who have supported this vote.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Vote 78/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 80 – (Ministry of Education – K2,151,264,712,528).

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Chairperson and hon. Members of the House, it is my honour and privilege to be availed this opportunity to present the policy statement on the 2008 Budget Estimates for Head 80 – The Ministry of Education.

In doing so, let me commend His Excellency the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., for the excellent leadership he is providing in steering the economy of our country on the path for growth and development.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Chairperson, it is important to stress the point that we now have a vision as a nation whose focus is for Zambia to become a prosperous middle income country by the year 2030:

(a) to reach the status of the middle income country, Vision 2030 identifies a number of developmental goals which should be achieved and these include increasing the capacity for wealth creation in the nation thereby significantly reducing hunger and poverty;

(b) fostering a competitive and outward oriented economy; and

(c) building the capacity of the human resources through knowledge and skills empowerment.

These goals call for pragmatic policies and plans that can accelerate and sustain economic growth and which can enable the majority of our people to participate in and benefit from the growth process. My ministry has the mandate of developing our country’s human resources whose knowledge and skills will raise our nation to greater prosperity.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Chairperson, education has both social and investment dimensions. The social dimension looks at the human rights aspects of education, especially basic education which is internationally considered as an important aspect to human existence. The investment dimension to education looks at the skills, knowledge, innovations, inventions and capacity to generation and application of knowledge which an education system is able to deliver.

Higher education, in particular, has a pivotal role to play in the investment aspect of education. It is to this level of education that we look to for new ideas, innovations and inventions. This is the creative level of our education investments. It is the prime mover of change and development. Higher education is the catalyst to the search for quality life for all our people in our society.

The investment dimension of education is the key to the sustainability of development activities in all sectors of our economy. The investment role of education can only be achieved through an interlinked quality and relevant education which runs from basic education through to the university levels.

Madam Chairperson, my ministry is working towards the achievement of our vision by focusing on the development of an innovative and productive life long education and training which is accessible to all. The mission of the ministry is to provide equitably accessible education and skills training opportunities for sustainable livelihood and development. The vision and mission of my ministry are complimentary to vision 2030. Our 2008 theme as a ministry is “Expanding Opportunities for Access to Quality and Relevant Education for all our People.”

In order to realise this theme, the ministry is focusing on the following objectives:

 (i) infrastructure development, maintenance and rehabilitation;

 (ii) teacher training, recruitment, employment and motivation;

 (iii) education materials procurement and distribution;

 (iv) curriculum review and development; and

 (vi) performance monitoring of educational delivery.

Madam Chairperson, a strong adherence to these five key areas of developing our education system should enable us achieve a system of education that is of high quality, relevant and equitably accessible. Such a system of education should be able to effectively be a catalyst for all our development programmes and a facilitator in achieving our national vision. This is our resolve and goal.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa:

Programme Targets and Activity Performance in 2007

Madam Chairperson, allow me to inform this August House on the milestones made by my Ministry in achieving the targets that were set in 2007. The main focus for the Government was to increase access to education, improve quality of education provided and address the issues of equity in the sector.


The enrollment for basic school, that is Grades 1 to 9 in 2007 was 3,166,310 which meant an increase of 6.0 per cent from the previous year. For high schools, that is Grades 10 to 12, the total enrolment was 219,132 in 2007, which was an increase of 13.0 per cent from 2006.

Teacher Recruitment and Deployment

In our efforts to improve the quality of education, I am glad to report to this august House that as at 31st December, 2007, 10,300 teachers had been recruited and deployed across the country. Of the 10,300 teachers recruited and deployed, 6,300 have replaced those that had left the service through retirement, resignation and death while 4,000 were new entrants into the Civil Service. Of the 6,300 replacements, 4,622 were posted to basic schools while 1,678 were posted to high schools. Of the 4,000 new entrants, 3,000 were for basic schools and 1,000 were posted to high schools. Most of the recruited teachers were posted to rural areas.

In our quest to improve the financial management in all educational institutions under the Ministry of Education, an additional 234 accounting staff were recruited and deployed in 2007.



Infrastructure Development

All the last eighteen educational centres which were started in 2005 were completed in 2007. To improve access in the high school sector, the ministry has floated tender for construction of thirty-one schools and will be continued in 2008.

The construction of Itezhi-tezhi, Chitambo, Kazungula and Kafushi High schools, including teachers’ houses, administration blocks and hostels were successfully started in 2007 and the projects are at different levels of construction. The constructions of five District Education Board Secretaries offices were completed in Kazungula, Kabwe, Mufulira, Solwezi and Itezhi-tezhi. The ministry began the construction of District Education Board Secretaries offices in the following districts, namely: Lusaka, Kafue, Livingstone, Chibombo, Chipata, Chama, Mpulungu, Samfya, Mansa, Zambezi, Masaiti and Kabompo.

The construction of six basic schools in Kabanana, Mtendere, Northmead, Marapodi, Chilenje South and Libala were completed in 2007. The construction of four student hostels at the University of Zambia, Great East Road Campus and two student hostels at the Copperbelt University Campus began in 2007. The construction of the School of Business Studies at the Copperbelt University was completed in 2007.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: The process of transforming the National College for Management Studies in Kabwe into the Mulungushi University was completed and recruitment of personnel is taking place.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!


Education Materials

Professor Lungwangwa:  The Ministry spent K90 billion on the procurement of text books for Government basic and high schools as well as the community schools and grant-aided schools using both the decentralised and centralised textbook procurement systems. Each province received 1,250 double-seater desks and 500 single-seater desks.

A total of 49 vehicles were procured for distribution to all the districts in the following provinces: Northern, Luapula, Central, North-Western, Copperbelt and Lusaka.

Policy and Planning

A Draft Early Childhood Care, Development and Education Policy has been developed and is currently being circulated amongst stakeholders for further consultations before it is submitted to the Ministry of Education for adoption and subsequent submission to Cabinet for consideration.

On the development of a National Qualifications Framework and establishment of Zambia National Qualifications Authority, a concept paper has been developed and consultations with other countries are being planned in order to have full experience on the establishment of the authority.

A Teaching Council of Zambia Draft Bill will be a subject of discussion during the first quarter of 2008 to get further input from the stakeholders before presentation to Cabinet. The Development of the Higher Education Authority is at an advanced stage and a Draft Concept Framework Paper has been completed and submitted to the ministry. The process of developing the Literacy Policy has been put in place and the policy is expected to be in place during the course of the year.

The Community School Guidelines have since been developed and the dissemination of the guidelines to various stakeholders has already taken place and hon. Members will be availed the copies.

Budget Summary for 2008

Madam Chairperson, the 2008 Budget for the Ministry of Education is K2,151,264,712,528 compared to K1,885,094,406,427 in 2007. This represents a 14 per cent increase in nominal terms from 2007. Madam Chairperson, K1.233 trillion has been allocated to personal emoluments whereas K917.6 billion has been allocated to non-personal emoluments.

Madam Chairperson, the 2008 Budget has seen a reduction in administration at all levels in our big ministry in order to relocate more resources to the core business of the ministry such as infrastructure and school grants, key strategies and programmes targets for 2008.

Madam, the programmes of activities contained in the 2008 Budget have been formulated to address the four priority key areas, namely:

(a) broadening access and participation;

(b) improving learning achievement and general quality of education outcomes;

(c) enhancing the systems efficiency and effectiveness; and

(d) taking on board the challenges of equity and equality.

Broadening Access and Participation

Madam Chairperson, the ministry will strive to achieve the education for all targets in terms of increased emoluments through the provision of additional educational facilities in schools and the expansion of existing ones. This is being supported by an effective infrastructure programme that facilitates the construction, rehabilitation and maintenance of the education sectors physical assets.

In the 2008, the ministry is targeting at the following:

Enrolling all Seven-year old Children in Grade 1

This policy has been adopted in order to meet the Millennium Development Goals. The implication of this policy is that new schools have to be constructed in areas where the demand for education is not being met by the available school places. To achieve this, the ministry aims at expanding …

The Chairperson: Order! I think there is a consultation which is a bit too loud. Can we listen to this policy statement?

May the hon. Minister, please, continue.

Professor Lungwangwa: To achieve this, the ministry aims at expanding the existing school places through construction of new basic schools and additional classrooms in the existing schools. The ministry is targeting to construct 1,524 classrooms in 2008 at a cost of K90 billion. This will translate into additional 799 classrooms on already existing schools which will increase access. The total number of new basic schools to be constructed this year will is 231 and these will be on new sites. On the new sites, the construction will be 1 x 3 classroom blocks. The construction of the new schools will shorten the distances which children have to travel to go to school.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: The distribution of the 1,524 classrooms has been done by province and district education staff through consultations with local communities in all the districts. The new classrooms and schools have been distributed in all the districts of our country.

My ministry has produced a document showing the distribution of the 2,008 infrastructure developments in the country and the budget expenditure of each construction. This document will be availed to all the hon. Members of the House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Chairperson, I would like to appeal to all the hon. Members of the House to use the document, when they get it next week, to monitor the construction programmes that will be undertaken in their respective districts.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam, they should also hold all the district educational authorities accountable to the construction programme that has been planed for 2008. The completion of construction of the 1,224 classrooms will create additional school places of about 1,037 under the double shift mode. This is part of our resolve to achieve education for all.

Mr Sing’ombe: Kuya kuile Lungwangwa.


Professor Lungwangwa: The construction of the twenty-eight basic schools floated for tender in 2007 will continue in 2008.

High School Construction

The construction of the thirty-one high schools which were tendered in 2007 will continue in 2008. The ministry has made a modest provision to facilitate the continuation of high school construction. A total of K89 billion has been set aside in the 2008 Budget to continue with the construction of an additional twelve high schools. The construction of the additional twelve high schools will be in the following provinces:

Province                        Number of High Schools

Lusaka                                       1
Northern                                    2
Luapula                                      1
Eastern                                      1
North-Western                           2
Western                                     1
Southern                                    2
Copperbelt                                 1
Central                                       1

Total                                           12

Madam Chairperson, as it is evident from the distribution, all our provinces will have a share of the twelve high schools which will be constructed beginning this year. These high schools, once completed, will translate into 74,989 school places, thereby representing a 61.5 per cent increment in school places at high school level throughout the country.

In order to effectively monitor the infrastructure development programme, a total of K8.9 billion has been allocated to monitoring activities which will be conducted at the district and provincial levels. My ministry has in this year’s budget included K2.84 billion for high school thermal power requirements. Unlike in the past, the ministry would be funding the procurement of diesel for high schools which are not serviced by the National Power Grid. This was a burden for high schools. It is my ministry’s desire to lift this burden, hence the provision in this year’s Budget.

The ministry is responding and will fulfil the challenge what we were given by His Excellency the President of constructing eighty-eight high schools and twelve technical high schools for girls within the next four years.



Establishment of Mulungushi University

Madam Chairperson, in the Tertiary Education Sub-sector, the ministry has allocated resources for the development of the Mulungushi University. A total of K70 billion is required to be allocated to the institution through infrastructural development in the next three years. The 2008 Budget has allocated K17 billion for Mulungushi University’s operations and for its outstanding bills and K30 billion for infrastructure development at the new university.

The total allocations to the University of Zambia and the Copperbelt University are K172.2 billion and K73.9 billion respectively and these are for the institutions’ operations outstanding bills, tuition, capital development and student welfare. The University of Zambia currently has a total 5,236 students on Government bursary and loan scheme while the Copperbelt University has a total of 2,410 students on the same scheme. This brings the total of students on Government bursary and loan scheme in the two universities to 7,646.

Madam, in addition, the students that are currently studying abroad supported by the bursary scheme are 544.

Improving Learning Achievement and General Quality of Education Outcomes

Madam Chairperson, the ministry shall continue to work towards the enhancement of learning achievement as one of its major outcomes. During the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP), this strategic focus is linked to the ministry’s target of attaining relevancy, effectiveness and efficiency which collectively promote the prospects for quality education and services provision. To realise these qualitative ideas, the ministry is focusing on the following in 2008 Budget:

Curriculum Development

Madam Chairperson, the ministry will improve the quality and relevancy of education through the design of a comprehensive and diversified school curriculum that is inter-linked through out all education levels. Particular attention is being placed on ensuring that the revised curriculum is sufficiently responsive to the developmental aspirations of Zambia, in general, and to the special requirements of learners, in particular. The ministry has allocated K65.2 billion for the procurement of education materials in this year’s Budget. This is broken down as follows:

(a) K48.1 billion is for education materials for Basic schools;

(b) K10.8 billion is for high schools;

(c) K3.7 billion is for colleges; and

(d) K2.5 billion is designated for procurement of education materials for children with special education needs.

Madam, the ministry has targeted the procurement of 37,000 desks for schools out of the K15 billion allocated to this activity in this year’s Budget.

Increasing Teacher Training and Deployment

Madam, the ministry is working at securing the attainment of quantitative improvements in teacher supply. To achieve this in 2008, the ministry expects to have a net recruitment of 5,000 teachers and K51 billion has been earmarked for this.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam, the proposed recruitment of 5,000 teachers will add to the existing 71,612 teachers, thereby bringing the total to 76,612 which will, in turn, positively affect the pupil teacher ratio. Currently, the national pupil teacher ratio stands at one teacher to forty-eight pupils. Once the 5,000 teachers have been employed, this ratio will drop to one teacher to forty-four pupils, thereby giving the pupils quality learning time.

Mr Magande: Hear, hear!


Upgrading of teacher training colleges

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Chairperson, the ministry is addressing the quality of teachers in 2008. The ministry will upgrade Nkrumah and Copperbelt Education colleges into degree granting institutions.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Professor Lungwangwa: The achievement of this development will result into more teachers trained specifically for high school teaching. The ministry will upgrade the infrastructure in both colleges by constructing one lecture theatre in each institution and constructing student hostels. This will be at a cost of K3 billion each.

Enhancing Systems Efficiency and Effectiveness

Madam Chairperson, the ministry is working towards a more decentralised system of delivery that should improve capacities of learning and training institutions in a manner that enhances their capacity to effectively and efficiently deliver quality educational services. To realise this, the ministry is focusing on the following:

Professor Lungwangwa drank some water.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: The ministry is focusing on the following:

School Management

Madam, our focus is on development and application of effective teacher assessment and inspection systems. Enhancement of inspection of basic schools, design and application of an effective standards assuring system that monitors teacher performance and securing qualitative and quantitative stability in the supply of well motivated, satisfied and health teachers.

Teacher Management

Madam Chairperson, the ministry is targeting the improvement of the quality of teacher management through, inter-alia, the establishment of an effective oversight body on quality control and quantitative improvements in teacher supply. This is being complemented by the design and implementation of a performance management system that will monitor the performance of teachers at different levels, both in schools and teacher training institutions. This will be complemented by the introduction of e-governance in teacher management. A special effort will be made to address the challenges that are associated with teacher absenteeism.

Teacher Motivation

Madam, the ministry is paying special attention to the development and operationalisation of a framework that ensures that teachers and trainers at all levels develop professionally by putting in place a clear career structure and a well co-ordinated in-service continuing professional development. The establishment of a national system of teacher registration with the supportive data base as well as accreditation as providers and course certificates will complement the ministry’s efforts to motivate teachers.

Madam, in addition, K1.5 billion has been set aside in this year’s Budget as teachers’ distress grant. This is aimed at helping the teachers in time of distress like funerals and is one way of ensuring that money meant for school grants is used only for the core-business.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Pupil Retention and Progression

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam, the ministry’s efficiency enhancement efforts will also address aspects that will keep pupils in school and secure their educational progression.

Procurement of vehicles

Madam, to improve the efficiency of our operations, twenty-seven vehicles will be procured this year to cater for the needs of all the districts in the following provinces: Southern, Eastern and Western.


Professor Lungwangwa: Madam, these provinces were not catered for in the 2007 Budget.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam, in addition, nine vehicles will be procured to meet the transport needs of all the provincial level officers, taking on board the challenges of equity and equality.

Madam Chairperson, in line with the Education For All and Millennium Development Goals targets, the ministry is taking measures to work towards universal basic education provision to children. This essentially entails the facilitation of opportunities for citizens to have equitable access to basic education. By way of special focus, during the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) period, the ministry will ensure that the educational system secures equitable access to basic education, paying special attention to the peculiar needs and requirements of the girl-child, orphans, vulnerable children, children with special educational needs and those that are affected by and infected with HIV/AIDS.

Madam Chairperson, an effective targeting mechanism to identify those to be supported is being developed. Currently, 106,875 pupils are on the school feeding programme in three provinces. In addition, 138,000 learners will be added in the 2008 on school feeding programmes. In addition, 1,341,000 learners are benefiting from the treatment of worms and bilharzia.

Madam Chairperson, the activities of the ministry in 2008 should be viewed in the broader sector goals which the Government is pursuing and will achieve during the FNDP and these are:

(i) to ensure that universal basic education is provided to all children. To this end, parents are expected to ensure that children aged seven years and above are enrolled in Grade 1. This programme started this year, 2008;

(ii) to ensure that opportunities exist for all citizens to have equitable access to early childhood care educational development, that is basic and high school and tertiary education;

(iii) to improve the equality and relevance of education and skills training;

(iv) to promote efficiency and cost effectiveness in the provision of education; and

(v) to enhance institutional co-ordination in both public and private education and training institutions.

Madam Chairperson and hon. Members of the House, my ministry would like to appeal, through this august House, to all stakeholders in the sector to focus more on improving education in the country.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to conclude by saying that improved education delivery demanded by the people of our country will require concerted efforts by all stakeholders, the private sector, civil society, hon. Members of Parliament and the community. This is critical in order to achieve the economic development we are aspiring for. It is my sincere hope that the hon. Members of the House will support the budget of my ministry.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Madam Chairperson, after listening to the policy statement delivered by the hon. Minister, I want to say that I have reduced somehow the number of issues to discuss.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: I have seen a serious ambition that you are calling for in addressing the backlog that daunts our nation.  If that policy statement will be backed by allocating it finances, then we are beginning to move. When you pay, it will show.

Mr Hamududu: With this statement and accompanying finances, we want to see whether it will show. 

Madam Chairperson, I will look at three areas. I would like to start with university education, and I will focus specifically on the University of Zambia because I do not want to involve myself in a clumsy debate.

Madam Chairperson, the University of Zambia on the Great East Road Campus is in a very fortunate position because one of the top officials from there is not only a Minister, but a Minister of Education. His Honour the Vice-President is a former Member of Parliament for Munali and the President of this country is a former student of that university. Therefore, in all fora such as Cabinet and so on, there are people who must be very clear about the challenges of the University of Zambia. There is no better time than now to address the issues concerning the University of Zambia.

Madam Chairperson, Lusaka has run out of land. There has been abuse of land belonging to institutions. Most of these institutions of higher learning like the University of Zambia, Natural Resources Development College (NRDC) and so on have lost land in a very careless manner.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: The officers in those institutions connive with people at Mulungushi House and other Government departments to take away the institutions’ land. This is very serious because Lusaka has a lot of land. However, I do not know where you are going to get more land for the expansion of these institutions because a lot of it has already been given away. 

As a first measure, as you increase the allocation to the University of Zambia, consider fencing off that land so that every Zambian will know the extent of the land. People have been encroaching in the university. No one knows the exact boundary of the institution and that has given room for people to encroach into that land. The Veterinary hostels will very soon be part of Kalingalinga. We urgently need to budget for a fence so that we know exactly the boundary of the University of Zambia and this will in future protect the remaining land. That should go for other institutions as well, although it is not appropriate.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to detour a bit. The Natural Resources Development College is a sorry sight. That is uttermost carelessness. The whole farm has been stolen by some of these unscrupulous workers in conjunction with people at Mulungushi House. I will be moving a strong statement very soon to inquire into these issues.

Madam Chairperson, the University of Zambia was actually well known for high standards for many years. However, there came a period when there was total stagnation. The libraries have very old books and computer facilities are very limited. In the region today, the University of Zambia is backward. We have lost lecturers for greener pastures. At one time, the University of Botswana was called University of Zambia, Botswana Campus, because the majority of lecturers there were Zambians. We have lost human resource and our position in the region. We also have a lot of work to catch up.

Madam Chairperson, one of the competitive advantages that Zambia has is in services. We can easily export services. I expected that by this time, our university and other institutions of higher learning would have a significant number of foreign students bringing in money to our country to expand our institutions. We have lost that position and everyone is going to work in South Africa. I think that we had a very big advantage at the end of the liberation war and we should have taken our rightful position and become a learning centre in Sub-Saharan African.

The Angolans and Congolese were supposed to be coming here. In Namibia, where I was privileged to live for a few years ago, there are many Angolans who are looking for education. I wish that was our market. I think, hon. Minister, it is not yet too late to recapture this big market.

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about the curriculum. When the Government of the day in the 1980s decided to open Copperbelt University in Kitwe, some programmes were taken from the University of Zambia. One of the departments which were affected, for example, was the Economics Department. I did economics at the Copperbelt University.

When I went in the field, I was highly disadvantaged. This is because some courses were taken from the other side and then the degree in economics became very theoretical. When I went in the field, I had to quickly study accountancy because economics was really weakened. The people who went to the university earlier benefited because there was a lot of business administration attached to some of those degrees. These degrees are being diluted and so we need to fund curriculum modernisation and development. Our degrees are becoming archaic and backward. This is why our universities are not attractive. I cannot send my child to the University of Zambia to do Bachelor of Economics because of the structure. It is not correct. Therefore, you need to give them funds to do those corrections.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: I am very happy, Madam Chairperson, that the hon. Minister of Education is a personal friend of mine. I must declare interest.

Mr Matongo interjected.

Mr Hamududu: Yes, he was there when I was studying and I have great respect for him. I remember when he came to Monze, he called me in his hotel room. That is how close we are.


Mr Hamududu: Madam Chairperson, of course, when you are friends, you can talk from anywhere. We need to support his ministry. I hope that statement will go a long way.

Madam Chairperson, let me talk about the qualifications for one to be enrolled at the Nkrumah Teachers Training College. This institution is backward. Let me give an example. Sri-Lanka’s biggest economic sector is labour export. Now, because we do not invest in this country, we will specifically become a country that will start exporting labour. That is an option and it is plan B. If you do not invest in local technology and so on, you have to export labour.

If you go to Livingstone and other cities, most of the houses are being built because of labour export. There are people who stay in the country for patriotism, but when there is no patriotism at all, they go out of the country to earn money so that they re-invest. I read in one of the newspapers that the Zambians who are working abroad bring more money in the country than donor funding. Therefore, that is a very important sector. You can go to plan B if you can invest in technology and local production and even export labour. Zambians are very loyal to invest and build houses.


Mr Hamududu: Those of you who are not sure should go to Livingstone and see for yourselves. They have brought significant investment.

Mr Munaile: In Monze.

Mr Hamududu: Of course, even in the Kafue Flats, we have bought a few animals and our people have benefited because we worked outside.

Let me conclude by talking about the bursaries in the Copperbelt University, University of Zambia and Mulungushi University. Bursaries must be for Zambians wherever they are studying. If a Zambian is studying at the Catholic University or Zambia Adventist University or Cavendish University with good points, then he must qualify for a bursary. Bursaries must be accessed by all Zambians irrespective of where one is studying. If my child cannot find the right programme at UNZA, but he can find this programme at Cavendish University and I cannot afford to pay, he should be given a bursary.

I appeal to the hon. Minister, through the Chair, to spread the accessibility of bursaries to all Zambians and not just within certain institutions. We must increase these bursaries.

On the same issue of bursaries, some of us who were at these institutions were bonded and I still have my bonding letter. It is high time that we paid back in a structured format. Those of us who went through these institutions and have been able to earn some money must pay back. We must be followed so that we re-invest in this bursary fund. This is very important. The hon. Member for Siavonga, Mr Syakalima, the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning, Mr Shakafuswa, who is not in the House and I are willing to put money back into that basket so that other children from Beene Village in Kaila Ward in Bweengwa can stand up in Parliament and speak the way I am speaking. I know that it is not the fault of the hon. Minister, but I would like to advise him to talk to all the graduates and ask them to start paying back and put money into that basket so that we enlarge the accessibility of this fund.

Madam, in conclusion, with regard to the challenge of grassroots education infrastructure, I want to say that after independence, our parents came together with the Government and built schools which were not of good standard, but we appreciate what they did. The lifespan of these schools was short. Today, this infrastructure has literally come to the end of its lifespan and I think all hon. Members are aware of that in their constituencies. We need a grand plan for reconstruction and expansion. I am very happy with the figures allocated to this and hope that development in this area will show.

In my constituency, my former primary school has the same classroom space as it was in 1976 when I was in Grade 1. However, the population has doubled. Of course, through the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), I am putting up new structures.


Mr Hamududu: In fact, I was not compelled to plough back so that the Government could have enough money to expand that infrastructure. I have my bonding letter, why does the Government not collect money from me?

Finally, I want to say that the Buildings Department in the ministry must supervise the building of educational infrastructure in the districts. Most parents now, out of desperation, want to put up sub-standard structures. We need to standardise. Structures must be built in the presence of building inspectors from the ministry. Otherwise, we are spending money on things which will not last. We should build once and for all. We must not pass a cost to the future generation. We must view education as an investment and not as a cost. The greatest investment we can make is in education. That is why the United Party for National Development (UPND) brothers and sisters here believe that education must be free because it is the best investment you can ever have, and not these fake investments that just come and fly by night. The fake investors do not want to pay tax, but just damaging the roads.


Mr Hamududu: Madam Chairperson, I want to say that these ‘fat’ years God has given us through high copper prices are divine. We must re-invest in the economy now or else this country will forever be a banana republic. I want to put it on record that God has remembered us again. These ‘fat’ years must be used to invest for the time when things will be very hard for us. We cannot predict how long the copper prices will increase. Let us quickly redouble our efforts and invest in education infrastructure and health for we will not have such a time again in our history.

Mr Hamududu: With these few remarks, I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chota (Lubansenshi): Madam Chairperson, I stand to support this vote. In doing so, I would like to commend the hon. Minister for a wonderful policy statement.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chota: In this regard, I will just concentrate on two issues because everything has been covered and I hope whatever is in the policy statement will be implemented. I have had a chance to talk to some of the staff in the ministry and I think they are working this time.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chota: Madam, allow me talk about the technical secondary schools. As you are aware, these are places where you accommodate the best students …

Madam Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)



[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)


The House adjourned at 1257 hours until 1430 hours on Tuesday, 11th March, 2008.