Debates- Tuesday, 18th March, 2008

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Tuesday, 18th March, 2008

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]






Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, in the absence of His Honour the Vice-President, who is attending to other national duties, Hon G. W. Mpombo, MP, hon. Minister of Defence, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House from today, Tuesday, 18th March, to Thursday, 20th March, 2008.

I thank you.




206. Mr Lubinda (Kabwata) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a) what quantities of the following products were exported from 2004 to 2007:

(i) sugar;

(ii) cotton seed;

(iii) cotton; and

(iv) cement; and

(b) to which countries the products above were exported and at what price.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, our response is as follows:

 Year             Product             Quantity (kg)

2004               Sugar                126,618,648
                       Cotton Seed      29,506,225
                       Cotton               110,193,778
                       Cement              89,940,659 

 Year                   Product                       Quantity (kg) 

 2005                   Sugar                           196,862,305
                            Cotton Seed                  69,304,434
                            Cotton                            65,537,837
                            Cement                         159,182,908

 Year                   Product                          Quantity (kg)
 2006                    Sugar                            124,261,377
                             Cotton Seed                   59,889,248
                             Cotton                             65,878,682
                             Cement                           139,577,738

Year                      Product                         Quantity (kg)

2007                       Sugar                           157,049,831
                               Cotton Seed                 54,243,382
                               Cotton                           39,145,007
                               Cement                          51,954,409

Mr Speaker, on part ‘b’ of the question, I will categorise the products and indicate where there were exported.

In the case of sugar, it was exported to Common Market for Eastern and Southern Africa (COMESA) member countries such the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Rwanda and Burundi. In the Southern African Development Community (SADC) Region, sugar was exported to the Republic of South Africa, Botswana and Tanzania. Sugar was also exported to the European Union countries such as Finland, Spain, Portugal and the United Kingdom.

Mr Speaker, as regards cotton seed, it was exported to COMESA member countries such as Namibia, Malawi, Zimbabwe and the Democratic Republic of Congo as well as to SADC countries of the Republic of South Africa and Botswana.

With regard to the actual cotton, it was exported to the SADC member countries of the Republic of South Africa and Lesotho as well as European countries of Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and the United Kingdom, including the People’s Republic of China.

Sir, as regards to cement, it was exported to Burundi and the Democratic Republic of Congo.

Sir, the prices for exporting these commodities during this period were as follows:

  Year                       Product                          Price (K)

  2004                        Sugar                             163,582,416,466
                                  Cotton Seed                    151,640,499,859
                                  Cotton                            700,314,585,217

                                   Cement                          35,974,481,738

  2005                         Sugar                             331,402,267,273

                                   Cotton Seed                   22,781,353,865

                                   Cotton                            356,455,343,521

                                    Cement                           66,797,043,624
2006                             Sugar                             217,035,449,248

                                     Cotton Seed                   18,329,424,401

                                     Cotton                             298,187,211,440

                                     Cement                           60,980,411,892

2007                              Sugar                             327,437,688,225

                                       Cotton Seed                  24,742,817,397

                                       Cotton                            292,484,230,829

                                       Cement                           33,664,856,835

Mr Speaker, the unit price in kilogrammes for these products were as follows:
2004  Sugar   1,291.92
    Cotton Seed  5,139.00
    Cotton   6,355.00
    Cement      400.00
2005  Sugar   1,683.00
    Cotton Seed     329.00
    Cotton   5 439.00
    Cement         420.00

  2006  Sugar   1,747.00
    Cotton Seed      306.00
    Cotton    4,426.00
    Cement          437.00

  2007  Sugar   2,085.00
    Cotton seed     456.00
    Cotton   7,472.00
    Cement         648.00

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, Hear!

Mr Lubinda: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for that very elaborate answer.

However, Sir, could I find out why most of these commodities have a lower export price than the price at which they are sold on the local market?  I have in mind sugar and cement. It has been stated, on the export market in 2007, sugar was sold at K2,085 at the time it cost K4,000 per kilogramme on the local market. What is the reason for this?

Mr Konga: I would like to thank the hon. Member for that supplementary question.

Sir, as alluded to earlier, the prices for export products were competitively lower than those on the local market. The reason for this is that products that are sold on the local market attract VAT among others. There is also the cost of insurance for these products as well as the cost of transporting them within the local market which, when added, makes the prices higher than the prices of exported products.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, in 2007, Zambia experienced a critical shortage of cement on the local market. Why should the Government continue exporting cement at a lower price when there is a high demand for cement at a good price in Zambia?

 Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Roan for that question.

First of all, I would like to inform the House that the Government does not own any cement plant. Therefore, the Government does not produce cement or sell cement at all.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Konga: Sir, the cement that was exported is produced and sold by a private company that sells it at a price which it feels will also give it a return on its investment to recapitalise the business.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Konga: Other than that, the cost of the cement that was exported to DRC in 2007, which I think the hon. Member for Roan has wrong information about, was U S $20 per bag. When you compute this amount, even at today’s exchange rate, it is more than the cost of the cement sold on the local market. The cost of cement exported to Burundi was U S $9 which is equivalent to K36,000.00 and compares equitably with that of the local price. So, I do not know where the hon. Member got those figures from.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, in his earlier answer, the hon. Minister said one of the reasons cement is expensive here is the cost of transport.


Mr Speaker: Order!

Mrs Musokotwane: If cement here is expensive because of cost of transport, how is the cement transported to other countries where it is sold cheaply?

Mr Muntanga: It walks there!


Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member for Katombola did not get me clearly.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Mr Konga: I said that among many the things that make the cost of cement cheaper on the export market compared to the local market is the Value Added Tax (VAT) which is not charged when we are exporting the product. Insurance is not borne by the local people, but by the foreign importers. If these costs are subtracted, you will find that the cost of cement is lower on the export market than it is on the local market.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Question!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, particularly about investors in the cotton industry who sponsor farmers to grow cotton. Why can they not start industries to manufacture clothes in the country to reduce the price of clothes and at the same time create employment for our people?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it is true that some of the cotton is exported. However, like any other industry, there are other players who are already ginning cotton in this country.

Mrs J. C. M. Phiri: Mulungushi!

Mr Konga: There are companies that are ginning and producing cotton. May be, all we can do is encourage others to participate also. At the moment, there are companies that are already ginning cotton.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the sugar that was exported to other countries was fortified with Vitamin A. I would also like to find out whether it is a requirement by these countries to have sugar fortified and whether the issue of fortification with Vitamin A has a bearing on the price.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, fortifying sugar that is consumed, especially in this country, is law. Sugar that is consumed in this country must be fortified with Vitamin A.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: As regards whether the requirement for fortification in other countries, I cannot state because, as I mentioned earlier, there are different countries where this sugar is exported to. Therefore, I cannot confirm that their sugar has to be fortified.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, following the answer that the hon. Minister gave to the hon. Member of Parliament for Chadiza relating to the ginning cotton, I would to say that yes, ginning is a primary industry, but what we want to know is whether the cotton that is ginned can be turned into yarn and made into a finished product such as a bed sheet, pillow slip or shirt.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Pemba is aware that we have companies that not only gin, but also produce cotton yarn and go beyond by producing textile fabrics. I have in mind the African Textiles, Mulungushi Textiles …

Hon. Opposition Members: Awe!
Mr Konga: … Swarp Spinning Mills, to mention just a few. These industries are not just ginning, but also making finished products.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Mr Speaker, arising from the cement shortages that we experienced last year, I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister has any plans to come up with a deliberate policy to flood the local market with cement so that the excess is exported.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: He does not know!


Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, well, I have on a different forum that this country’s policies have attracted good investment.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: The shortage of cement that the hon. Member alluded to was due to the economic growth …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: … in the mines, industries, commerce, road construction and so on and so forth. As a result, the investors, and not the Government, because the Government has good policies only, have appreciated these policies and they are reinvesting. Hon. Member, you just need to drive fifteen kilometres south of Lusaka and see a big cement factory that is being erected at Chilanga.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Other than that, as a result of the good economic policies, there are private cement investors such as Oriental Quarries and Zambezi Portland Cement. Therefore, the shortage the hon. Member alluded to was not necessarily created by production, but the increase in demand. Therefore, to cater for the high demand, there are already efforts to increase the production.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


207. Major Chibamba (Shiwang’andu) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the following bridges in Chinsali District which had been destroyed by heavy rains during the 2006/2007 rainy season would be reconstructed.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the Provincial Administration in the Northern Province through the regional engineer, identified and prioritised a list of bridges and culverts that were washed away during the 2006/2007 rainy season for maintenance and submitted the list to the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) in the Office of the Vice President for funding.

Mr Speaker, in 2007, the DMMU received an amount of K4,000,000,000 from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to carry out the repairs of the prioritised list of the washed away river crossing structures. The works are being carried out jointly by the Zambia Army, the Zambian National Service and the Road Development agency (RDA).

The RDA had estimated that about K12,000,000,000 was required to carry out the repair of all the culverts and bridges that were damaged during the 2006/2007 rainy season.

The maintenance of Chamusenge and Mapamba bridges were not included for maintenance in the K4,000,000,000 that was released in 2007 although they were on the list of prioritised bridges and culverts for maintenance. However, it is anticipated that when the Ministry of Finance and National Planning releases more funds to the DDMU, the two mentioned bridges will be funded.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs J. C. M. Phiri (Munali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out if the hon. Minister knows that bridges link the people of Chinsali to the Mulanga Mission Hospital, which is the only hospital that caters for the people of Shiwang’andu. How are the people going to access the hospital which is an important facility?

Mr Shakafuswa: Let them swim.


The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, when this money was released, the priorities were made by the provinces. We only went by the priorities that were made. I am sure they should have looked at the location that she is talking about and found that the ones they funded were probably in a more critical situation than that particular location.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I heard that the Zambia Army and the Zambia National Service are involved in the repair. I hope it is not for free. Are they being paid?


Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, they are being paid for the services they are providing. They have just been involved because of the nature of the works that were very urgent. It was easier to get to the Zambia Army and the Zambia National Service.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister state the reasons the bridges in the rural areas such as Luwingu are not inspected annually as it is done in other areas.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, roads and bridges are inspected annually. The problem I have encountered is that the hon. Members of Parliament are not normally made aware. We are compiling a list and the dates when these inspectors will go to the whole country, including the location being referred to. We should be able to distribute this list before we rise this session.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}


208. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

(a) How much money was given to women’s clubs country-wide in 2006 and 2007; and

(b) whether there were any plans to review the assistance given to women’s clubs annually.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Chinyanta): Mr Speaker, the Ministry provided K428,252,400 in grants to a total of 210,121 women’s clubs in 2006 and 2007 respectively. However, for 2007, the figure has since increased as the process of disbursement had not been completed by the time of this response.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry does not have any plans to review the assistance given to women’s clubs because this responsibility has now been transferred to the Citizens’ Empowerment Fund. We shall, however, continue to assist women’s clubs through technical support and skills training.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, in 2006 and 2007, the Government gave K600 million as grants to the women’s clubs. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there are auditors in her Ministry who normally check how the women are running their businesses. This is because it seems like this money is just there to be shared.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chinyanta: Mr Speaker, first of all, I must mention that the figure in my answer is the amount of money that we gave to the clubs. However, I should state that we do have money that we have provided for monitoring and evaluation. At the same time, we also provided money for capacity building. Both internal and external auditors are available to check the finances of the women’s clubs from time to time.

I thank you, Sir.




The Excess Expenditure Appropriation (2005) Bill, 2008

Report adopted.

Third Reading on Wednesday, 19th March, 2008.




VOTE 76/03 ─ (Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development ─ Youth Affairs Department ─ K9,256,238,145).

(Consideration resumed)

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Chairperson, when business was suspended on Friday, I had just started moving an amendment to Vote 76/03 ─ Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development ─ Youth Affairs Department under the Inspectorate Unit, in which I proposed that Programme 7, Activity 01 ─ Youth Empowerment Fund be provided an amount of K15 billion.

Madam, before I started my debate, the hon. Minister responsible for the Ministry spoke about the lack of capacity in his Ministry to handle this money. He also mentioned to this House that his intention this year was to put in place a programme through which the Constituency Youth Development Fund would be managed.

Madam, let me allay those arguments. Firstly, there is nothing like a lack of capacity in the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development to handle the K15 billion that this side of the House is proposing to be allocated to the Constituency Youth Development Fund. The reason for this is because all that is required is for the Permanent Secretary in the Ministry to receive a cheque from the Secretary to the Treasury in the amount of K15 billion. The next …

There was a technical fault.

The Chairperson: Order! Mr Lubinda, you may wait a minute so that this debate can be captured. You will be told when to resume debating.

We will all remain here for a few minutes.

Mr Lubinda: Madam, I was saying that after the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development has received one leaf; only one cheque form the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, all the Ministry will do is issue cheques to all the districts in Zambia. What capacity does the hon. Minister not have to issue seventy-two cheques? Beyond that, our proposal is that this continues to be Constituency Youth Development Fund …

Mrs J. C. M. Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … to be managed in exactly the same fashion as the K6 billion that was released last year through the district councils. This means, therefore, that the responsibility for appraising these proposals by the youths shall not be held at the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development. Rather, it shall be the responsibility of the respective district councils. Where then, do we lack capacity?

Madam, the councils have demonstrated over the years that they are capable of supervising Constituency Development Funds. What would make it difficult for them to also supervise the utilisation of K100 million in the name of Constituency Youth Development Fund?

Mrs J. C. M. Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: There is nothing stopping the district councils from supervising that money for and behalf of the Central Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: As a matter of fact, that is the reason this country has district authorities. The district authorities are supposed to perform as agents of the Central Government.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: We are not asking the hon. Minister or his Ministry to go visiting every small youth project in Zambia. That is not our intention.
The Chairperson: Order! Mr Lubinda, make your point because we are not re-opening the entire debate. Make your point on this and move on.

You may continue, please.

Mr Lubinda: Madam, thank you very much for your guidance. I wish to emphasise these salient issues so that I can convince my colleagues on the value of having this K15 billion allocated to the youths.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Madam, let me move on to the issue that was raised by the hon. Minister that he would like to come up with a system. I have already proposed the system and it does not take one year to develop one. It is a system that can be developed in ten minutes.

Additionally, Madam, imagine the amount of frustration that we shall cause to the youths who, last year, the Government instrumented to form Constituency Youth Development Committees …

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: … and now, only after one disbursement, we want them to abandon those committees.

Madam, last year, the fund stimulated leadership amongst our youths in our constituencies.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Why is it that we want to conduct experiments and before they give fruit, we abandon them?

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Members of the Committee, we had time to debate the policy of the Ministry …

Mr Lubinda: I am moving an amendment.

The Chairperson: Order! Moving an amendment does not mean that you have to re-open the entire debate. Make your point on the amendment so that we get a response and move on. Otherwise, with the way we are proceeding, we will end up with a full policy debate on this issue.

I know you can make your point in the shortest possible time. So, please, do so.

You may go on, please.

Hon. Government Members: Finally!

Mr Lubinda: Madam, I, again, thank you for your guidance. In moving this amendment, my intention is to answer to the arguments presented by the Executive as to why they think it is not expedient to allocate this money to the Constituency Youth Development Fund. Unless I do that, my amendment will not be supported.

Madam, let me now move on. For those who were saying that the people proposing this amendment are against the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund, let me make it crystal clear that there is no person in this House who I have heard criticising the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund. As a matter of fact, all those on this side who debated the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry supported the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund. Our intention is not to reduce the allocation to that fund, but make sure that the fund is not disturbed by also allocating funds for small projects to be run by youths. We would like that fund to concentrate on what it was established for; to stimulate the growth of enterprise in Zambia. The money for youths is meant to provide a source of livelihood for the Zambian youths. The 4.3 million youths out there who lack a source of livelihood.

Madam, I would like to say that for this money we are proposing, if people cared to look at the file on proceedings, they will see that another amendment is to be proposed to finance this K15 billion and that is not coming from any productive Vote. It is coming from a Vote that I can demonstrate on the Floor of this House, has been lying redundant ever since 2002.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Madam, records are there to show that the Contingency Fund, ever since 2002, has never been used except in 2006 when only K2 billion of the allocated K12 billion was used. In addition to that, I want to demonstrate that average contingency …

Madam Chairperson: Order! Mr Lubinda is a very senior Member of this House. He should not mislead the House into debating. Your amendment was moved several days ago. If you wanted to debate in this manner, you could have done so in the general policy debate. In short, you are supposed to point out why you have moved the amendment. You do not have to move into another fifteen minutes’ debate. Can you make your point, otherwise we must move on. We are not going to allow another fifteen minutes’ debate on amendments. It does not go that way.

Mr Lubinda: Madam, I would have been extremely privileged if I were availed the choice whether or not to debate the policy of this Ministry, but I did not have the choice. I want to say that I am indicating to the House that the Vote from which we were proposing a reduction of K15 billion is the Contingency Fund and not the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund. Therefore, please, let no one here pretend that we want to reduce the money allocated to the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund.

We are proposing a reduction to a Vote that is clearly redundant; a Vote that has never been used except once since 2002 and one that has received above all other increases on all Votes an average of 0.1 per cent of the Budget. This Vote, this year, has been allocated 0.66 per cent from K12 billion to K90 billion. There is no reason whatsoever we should increase the allocation for the Contingency Fund from K12 billion in 2007 to K90 billion in 2008 and denying the youths K15 billion in a year when we are saying that we are unlocking resources. What we are doing here is contrary to the theme of the Budget for 2008. We are actually locking resources.

I want to end by appealing, particularly to Hon. Mulongoti who was criticising other Parties for being intolerant to show that his Party is also extremely tolerant.

 I thank you, Madam


Madam Chairperson: Order!

The Minister of Local Government and Housing (Mrs Masebo): Madam Chairperson, I rise to oppose the proposed amendment.


Mrs Masebo: It is clear that there is a deliberate move by the mover of this amendment to mislead the youths in the country that this administration is against funding youth projects.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: Madam Chairperson, as a Government, we make decisions that we feel are in the best interest of the people who voted us into Government.

Mrs Masebo: To that extent, I want to say, in connection with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), Youth Fund and Women’s Fund, that we resolved, as a Government, that we should increase the Constituency Development Fund on account that it should capture income-generating activities or micro activities that shall be funded for both youth and women projects; and indeed for any other projects.

Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mrs Masebo: The guidelines for the CDF are very clear. These are funds that are meant for macro activities. So, the youths in Zambia have access to the CDF.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Masebo: The guidelines clearly state that in small clubs, income generating activities can be included. Therefore, this amendment is really out of order and should not be supported.

Madam Chairperson, last time, the same Members said that we cannot be littering money all over. Therefore, I would like to appeal to the other hon. Members of Parliament not to be misguided. We should be pushing for more resources in the 2009 Budget for CDF and for the Economic Empowerment Fund itself because even the Economic Empowerment Fund does not restrict those who apply. The youths or women can apply. Let us not mislead the public here.

I thank you, Madam

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Madam, I thank you very much for permitting me this chance to debate. I would like to indicate that contingency by its definition means unforeseen circumstances.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, I come from a constituency that was hit by a calamity of floods.


Madam Chairperson: Order! The House should be listening. This is why sometimes you end up repeating what has already been raised. Can we pay attention to the one who is debating.

Mr Nkombo: Through you, Madam, I would like to make a plea to hon. Members to, please, listen. I said in my opening remarks that I come from Mazabuka Central Constituency which was hit by floods on the 31st December, 2007. It is sensible and prudent to keep money as contingency because we do not know what the future holds.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: if Hon. Mwila could listen because this is a very serious affair.

Mr D. Mwila: It is alright!

Mr Nkombo: Madam Chairperson, two nights ago, thirty houses collapsed in Nanga and we did not know that it would happen. This is why I keep saying that it is sensible to keep money in as contingency for unforeseen circumstances because when these unforeseen circumstances do occur, the youths will benefit from the resources. Those who are currently sleeping under the tree because they have been displaced by the collapse of homes require to be dealt with.

In my view, I would like to humbly request the mover of this amendment to reconsider his position …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: … because at the moment, in Mazabuka, people are sleeping outside. I want to take this opportunity to ask the Office of the Vice-President to come to the aid of the people who include youths.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Madam Chairperson, I think there is no controversy here over what we are debating. It is a question of time to narrow down on something that is going to be more appropriate.

You are aware that all along, the Government of the day has been assuring all of us that the Youth Empowerment Fund will be administered by the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development. Accordingly, the Ministry was mandated to prepare guidelines on how the same funds were to be administered and I have a copy of the same guidelines.

Now that this mandate has been taken away from the Ministry, we are supposed to be informed officially. An explanation is supposed to be made in a sober manner so that when we go back to our respective constituencies, we shall be able to explain the changes without any difficulty. I think that is what we are looking for.

Ordinarily, once you make changes in the policy, a minister who is going to generate that change is supposed to generate a Cabinet Memorandum which is supposed to be sent to other ministers for comments. If, for example, that has been done, we need to be informed.

Secondly, and this is as a matter of emphasis, only the President has powers to change structures. This is something that must be understood. Once structures have changed, the nation is supposed to be informed through a Government Gazette. So far, I have not seen that Government Gazette to indicate that there is a shift in the structures and that administration of the same funds will now be done through the Citizen’s Economic Empowerment Commission.

I have to be guided because I have been looking for the Government Gazette from the time this issue was tabled in this House, but I have not seen any. Even those that are supposed to issue the Government Gazette, I have to know them. Otherwise, there is no controversy here even on the question of who does what and so on and so forth. However, since the arrangement was made initially, the position that might be understood is that no minister has the power to change the structures. It is only the Head of State and we are supposed to be informed through the Government Gazette that I have not seen to date.

I thank you, Madam.

The Chairperson: Let me guide you before you speak, hon. Minister. Before I allow any further debate, I repeat what I said when Mr Lubinda was debating that this is not an open debate. You have to be specific to the point on the Floor. Do not raise new issues of other policies in the Government.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Shakafuswa): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the debate on the Floor of the House.

Madam, let me mention that I will be very brief. Cabinet came up with the decision to organise the empowerment programme. I think that everyone is aware that we used to have a Constituency Youth Development Fund (CYDF) than run concurrently with the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). When Cabinet wanted to gauge the value that the fund had added to the youth, it found that there was nothing on the ground to show that the money had been put to good use. As a result, the CYDF was discontinued in 2003, but was added to the CDF. Hon. Members may be aware of this.
Hon. PF Members: Question!

Mr Shakafuswa: Yes! Regarding empowerment, we decided, as a Government, to increase the CDF to K300 million. The new guidelines include empowerment of youth and women with small scale income-generating projects. Therefore, out of the K300 million for the CDF, you can still use K50 million for youth’s empowerment and K50 million for women’s empowerment, …


Mr Shakafuswa: … according to the guidelines of the CDF.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: Madam Chairperson, we have to be very careful when we talk about youth empowerment. Under my Ministry, we had the Japanese Non-Project Grant that was meant to inject capital to boost business and farming in this country. However, it failed because we did not have the capacity to manage that fund. We are now saying that we should have a professional body in place. Out of the K120 billion which is meant for empowerment, we can say K30 billion is for the youth and K30 billion for women’s empowerment. The rest goes to developing small and medium enterprises.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: These options are still open, we do not want your money or the people’s money to be thrown into a hole where we would not recover it. People are used to appeasement. If you run politics of appeasement, your policies will never be supported by people who think. Your policies will just go down the drain.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shakafuswa: I thank you, Madam.


The Chairperson: Order!

Hon. PF Members called for a division.

Question that Vote 76/03 – Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development – Youth Affairs Department – K9,256,238,145 be amended put and the House voted.

Ayes – (31)

Ms E. M. Banda
Mr Bwalya
Colonel Chanda
Mr Chisala
Mr Chitonge
Mr Chota
Ms Imbwae
Mr Imenda
Mr Kambwili
Mr Kanyanyamina
Ms Kapata
Mr Kapeya
Mr Kasongo
Dr Katema
Mr Lubinda
Dr Machungwa
Mr Malama
Mr Msichili
Mr Mukanga
Mr C. Mulenga
Mrs J. C. M. Phiri
Mr Mwansa
Mr Mwenya
Mr D. Mwila
Mr Ngoma
Mr Nyirenda 
Dr Scott
Mr Sikota
Mr Simama
Mr Simuusa
Mr Zulu

Tellers for Ayes:

Mr Mwansa
Ms Cifire

Noes – (79)

Mr Akakandelwa
Mr A. Banda
Mr I. Banda
Mr Bonshe
Ms Changwe
Mr Chella 
Major Chibamba
Mr Chibombamilimo
Mr Chilembo
Mr Chinyanta 
Mr Chisanga
Dr Chishimba
Dr Chituwo
Ms Cifire
Mr Daka
Mr Hamir
Mr Holmes
Mr Kaingu
Mr Kakusa
Dr Kalumba
Dr Kazonga
Mr Konga
Mr Kunda
Mr Liato
Ms Lundwe
Professor Lungwangwa
Mr Mabenga
Mr Machila
Mr Magande
Mr Malwa
Mr Mangani
Mrs Masebo
Ms Masiye
Mr Mbewe
Mr Mbulakulima
Mr Misapa
Mr Mpombo
Mr Mubika
Mr Muchima
Mr Mufalali
Mr Mukuma
Ms Mulasikwanda
Mr Mulonga
Mr Mulongoti
Mr Mulyata
Mr Munkombwe
Mr Musosha
Mr Muteteka
Mr M. B. Mwale 
Mr V. Mwale
Ms Mwamba
Mr Mwangala
Dr Mwansa
Mr Mwanza
Mr Mwapela
Ms Namugala
Mr Namulambe
Mr Ndalamei
Ms Njapau
Mr Nkhata
Reverend Nyirongo
Mr Pande
Mr D. B. Phiri
Professor Phiri
Dr Puma
Ms Sayifwanda
Mr Shakafuswa
Mr Shawa
Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha
Mr Sichamba
Mr Sichilima
Mr Sikazwe
Mr Silavwe
Mr Simbao
Mrs Sinyangwe
Mr Sinyinda
Mr Taima
Ms V. Tembo
Mr Tetamashimba

Tellers for Noes:

Mr Kakoma 
Mr I. Banda.

Abstentions – (14)

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC
Mr Beene
Mr Chazangwe
Mr Habeenzu
Mr Hachipuka
Mr Katuka
Mr Mweemba
Mr Mwiimbu
Mr Mooya
Mr Muntanga
Mr Muyanda
Mr Nkombo
Mr Ntundu
Mr Sejani

Question accordingly negatived.

Vote 76/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 76/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 90 – (Office of the President – Lusaka Province – K23,247,578,589).

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Madam Chairperson, I rise to present the Estimates of Expenditure for the provinces for 2008.

Madam Chairperson, the main objective of the Provincial Administration is to facilitate equitable socio-economic development, ensure an improved standard of living for the people and provide political leadership at the provincial level.

Madam, the specific functions of provincial administrations include:

(a) ensuring that the Government’s policies are understood and implemented from the provinces;

(b) planning and co-ordinating developmental activities in the provinces;

Madam Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.{mospagebreak}

Mr Mpombo: Madam Chairperson, before business was suspended, I was listing the specific functions of the provincial administrations and these include:

(c) mobilising resources for development for the provinces;

(d) monitoring the utilisation of resources and execution of district development plans and programmes;

(e) consolidating district development plans into provincial development plans;

(f) carrying out statutory and audit inspections in all districts;

(g) co-ordinating state and traditional ceremonies; and

(h) maintaining law and order throughout the provinces.
Madam Chairperson, a review of the budget performance of the provinces for 2007 indicates that they recorded significant achievements in many areas. To begin with, the Budget Office disbursed more than 96 per cent of the funds to the provinces. This enabled them attend to their planned projects and programmes. Among some of the notable achievements that they made in both the economic and social sectors included the following:

 Agriculture and Economic Sector

Madam Chairperson, in agriculture, the provinces continued to contribute to national food security and improved household incomes by implementing a number of agricultural initiatives, including the following:

(i) constructing new fish ponds, rehabilitation of existing ones and stocking them under the Fish Farming Development Project and Fish Out- grower’s Scheme;

(ii) undertaking a vigorous campaign to eradicate trypanosomiasis, a disease affecting both animals and human beings;

(iii) undertaking development critical to the maintenance of farming blocks through the Department of Resettlement;

(iv) establishing palm oil Out-growers schemes in the Luapula Province;

(v) rehabilitating farmers’ training centres;

(vi) supporting small-scale farmers through the Fertiliser Support Programme, Co-operative Development and other support measures;

(vii) developing infrastructure such as roads, telephone facilities and maintaining trunk and feeder roads; and

(viii) promoting youth empowerment programmes in all the provinces.

Social Sector Performance

Madam Chairperson, in the social sector, much progress was also achieved in education, health provision, water supply and sanitation. Some of the notable achievements included:

(i) increasing the number of upper basic schools in order to enhance accessibility to high school education. Last week, the hon. Minister of Education circulated a document on this matter for the information of hon. Members. I trust that hon. Members have read that document and seen the good work being accomplished in all our provinces;

(ii) procuring and distributing school requisites such as computers, stoves, books, laboratory equipment in line with the Government’s policy of free basic education;

(iii) developing and maintaining infrastructure such as health and educational institutions so as to improve access to quality health care and education services;

(iv) rehabilitating local courts in order to improve operations of the Judiciary, and consequently, improve the dispensation of justice to our people;

(v) implementing the Rural Electrification Programme through the provision of solar panels to chiefs’ palaces, some schools and health centres;

(vi) constructing ventilated improved pit latrines in order to improve sanitation among the beneficiary communities; and

(vii) accelerating the implementation of the Rural Water Supply Programme under which the provision of many water points, wells and boreholes have been sunk to increase access to potable water supply and improved sanitation.

The Mining Sector

Madam Chairperson, due to the good investment policies that the Government has put in place, large investments have been made at the Kansanshi and Lumwana Copper Mines in the North-Western Province, heralding the Government’s drive to provide employment opportunities to our rural communities. Furthermore, exploration works for other minerals such as gold, nickel and copper, to name only a few is going on throughout the country.

Madam Chairperson, it is the hope of the Government that the country will benefit from her natural resources when the mining companies begin to pay the increased mining royalties and taxes. Moreover, this increased investment in the mining sector has created jobs for Zambians.

I, therefore, appeal to our co-operating partners to move in step with us over this matter, as it provides a win-win situation for both the mining houses and the Zambian people. We should also continue to accelerate the prospecting activities that are going on in all the provinces in order to create employment for our people as we have seen in the North-Western, Southern and Copperbelt Provinces where mining is underway.

Madam Chairperson, let me hasten to state that the above list of achievements is not exhaustive, but rather illustrative. The provinces are making positive contributions towards the transformation of our economy. If given the necessary support by the hon. Members of this august House, they will do even more, particularly under the ambit of the on-going Decentralisation Policy.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to add, too, that the above achievements were made in the midst of serious implementation challenges and constraints, including the following:

(i) unfavourable weather conditions that led to flooding in some parts of the country, which, in turn, has adversely affected food output, farmer incomes, damaged road and bridge infrastructure and destroyed schools, health centres and so on and so forth;

(ii) inadequate capacity in information management due to a lack of equipment  and necessary skills;

(iii) general lack of equipment;

(iv) unreliable and inadequate transport for the smooth implementation, monitoring and co-ordination of programmes;

(v) inadequate staffing in some sector departments; and

(vi) contractual delays.

Madam Chairperson, while appreciating that our budgetary resources are limited and that there are other equally critical national programmes that are competing for the same resources, we must not lose sight of the fact that the provincial administration has the awesome responsibility of facilitating the local communities’ capacity to participate in the exploitation of their natural resources in agriculture, forestry, tourism and other industries with a view to improving the standards of living of the rural communities, where poverty is highest.

I, therefore, wish to strongly appeal for the support of the hon. Members of this august House to favourably consider the provincial Estimates, in view of their huge mandate.
I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Lusaka Province (Mr Mangani): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to present the budget Estimates for my Province. It is a great honour for me and the Province to debate this Vote.

Madam Chairperson, I also wish to thank the hon. Members of Parliament for supporting the Estimates of Expenditure for my Province.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mangani: Madam Chairperson, this budget has been very consultative, with all the major stakeholders having been invited to make an input in the preparation of these Estimates. However, I must admit that these consultations have not been easy, as some hon. Members of Parliament had difficulty attending most of the meetings.

Madam Chairperson, through you, I would like to urge all the hon. Members of Parliament for Lusaka Province to take these consultations very seriously and get involved in the development of their Province.

Madam Chairperson, allow me now to outline some developmental activities that were undertaken in 2007. However, before I do so, allow me to give a brief description of the Lusaka Province.

Madam Chairperson, the Lusaka Province is one of the smallest provinces in Zambia in terms of land size. However, it has the second largest population in the country, with a population of 1,391,329 as per statistics of 2000, which was projected to increase to 1,697,730 by this year. It has had the highest annual population growth rate in the country at a rate of 3.5 per cent between 1990 and 2000, and has the highest population density of 63.5 persons per square kilometre.

Madam Chairperson, the Lusaka Province has four districts, namely Lusaka, Chongwe, Kafue and Luangwa. More than 78 per cent of the province’s population is in Lusaka District, 9.9 per cent in Chongwe, 10.8 per cent in Kafue and 1.4 per cent in Luangwa District.

2007 Budget Performance

Madam Chairperson, allow me now to give an outline of the performance of the Province in 2007.

In 2007, the Province had a total budget allocation of K22,542,737,235.00 out of which K9,892,213,969.00 was for personal emoluments, K127,488,201.00 was for grants, K7,904,401,727.00 for poverty reduction programmes and capital projects and K4,618,633,338.00 for Recurrent Departmental Charges. Out of this, I am to say that we received 87 per cent out of the projected K22,542,737,235.00. That represents K19,614,273,869.81.

Mr Mangani drank some water.


The Chairperson: Order! You may not carry out your dialogue here.

Mr Mangani: Madam Chairperson, allow me now to state some of the achievements in 2007.

The Lusaka Province has a vision to achieve “A Socially Developed, Economically Sustainable Province by 2030”. Furthermore, our mission statement is “To effectively and efficiently promote and co-ordinate sustainable development in the Province in order to ensure quality and timely service delivery to the community in a transparent, accountable and equitable manner”.

Madam Chairperson, in the field of agricultural development, the Lusaka Province has continued with the livestock improvement programme under which all four districts in the Province have been facilitated with village chickens, ducks, goats and pigs. Under the Fish Out-grower Scheme, ten fishponds were constructed in Lusaka District, eighteen in Kafue and twelve in Luangwa. Furthermore, 1,250 fingerlings were provided to the fish farmers in Lusaka District.

Madam Chairperson, the Fish Out-grower Scheme and livestock improvement programme have made a positive contribution to employment creation, income generation and nutrition levels.


Madam Chairperson, in the field of education, my Province continued with education improvement. Some of the projects undertaken include, the procurement of 120 desks that were supplied to five classes at Mtendere Basic School, the construction of Mukamambo II Girls’ High School dining hall which is ongoing, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mangani:  … the construction of a 1 X 3 laboratory at Mikango High School is ongoing, the construction and rehabilitation of Mount Makulu Basic School and the construction of a science laboratory and boys’ and Girls’ dormitories at the recently upgraded Chitende High School.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


Madam Chairperson, under health improvement, the province acquired land in Chief Bunda Bunda’s area in Chongwe District for the construction of a health centre. Other notable construction and rehabilitation projects in the Province include the Mphuka Rural Health Clinic, Luangwa Boma Clinic and a mortuary unit, Chilanga and Kalingalinga outpatient Clinics, Chongwe Maternity Unit and pharmacy to mention just a few. Above all, the construction of Chaisa Urban Clinic and the recent launch of the construction of the Lusaka General Hospital by his Excellency the President Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa SC., on the 23rd of October, 2007 is another major project.


Madam Chairperson, under the water sector, a total of twenty-four boreholes were drilled in 2007, out of which nine were in Chongwe, six in Kafue and nine in Lusaka. The rehabilitation of two dams at Kasenke and Twikatane Kasenke in Chongwe District was commenced in 2007 and is ongoing. The Province has recognised the importance of public/private partnerships in service delivery and has, therefore, involved the private sector in its programmes, particularly in water infrastructure development.


Madam Chairperson, under energy, the Province has embarked on the implementation of the Rural Electrification Programme under which rural areas are being connected to the National Electricity Grid.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mangani: Luangwa District is on top of the list, as it is not connected to the National Grid and runs on diesel-powered generators. In addition to this, the Province continues to provide solar panels to some schools and health centres. Some of the schools that benefited include Chitende High in Kafue, Lwimba Nkalamabwe, Mulola and Mulilika Basic Schools in Chongwe. Others are Chiliwe and Munkokwe Basic Schools in Luangwa. Furthermore, Chisakane and Chipapa Health Centres in Kafue have also been installed with solar panels. Other health centres include Sinyanwangora, Munkokwe and Chitope in Luangwa. Others are Mpango, Lukwipa and Mwalumina in Chongwe.

Physical Planning and Housing

Madam Chairperson, Lusaka Province is in the process of formulating integrated development plans for Luangwa and Chongwe. In addition, the Province continues to facilitate development controls and monitor private involvement in the housing sector. Some significant examples of property developers in the private sector include Meanwood Property Development Corporation and the Lilayi Housing Project.

Social Welfare and Community Development

Madam Chairperson, to promote self sustenance and gender equality, the Lusaka Province has embarked on entrepreneurship skills training for women. In 2007, a total of 898 members of various communities in the Province were empowered with entrepreneurship development skills of which 127 were male and 771 were female. Furthermore, the Province has continued with the programmes of rehabilitation and integration of street children. In 2007, a total of 145 children were removed from the streets and incorporated into child care institutions as well as families.


Madam Chairperson, although the Lusaka Province strove to achieve most of the planned output, the Province experienced a number of challenges. This was mainly due to challenges related to the implementation of the planned programmes and activities. This included delays in tender procedures as well as a lack of qualified officers in some departments and the slow pace at executing works by the hired contractors.

Madam Chairperson, the Lusaka Province has experienced other challenges that may have a direct or indirect effect on the implementation of programmes. The current expansion of the urban population and the subsequent traffic congestion, resulting from increased economic activity in the province, especially in Lusaka District posed and continue to pose a number of problems to ease the movement of people, goods and services, health safety and the general wellbeing of society. This has resulted in overcrowding and traffic jams in the city of Lusaka, especially.

Furthermore, Madam Chairperson, the Lusaka Province has not been spared by the floods which have ravaged the country this rainy season. The torrential rains and subsequent flooding have resulted in the damage of crops, houses, roads bridges and even the loss of lives, especially in the Lusaka and Luangwa Districts.

Madam Chairperson, the human/animal conflicts have continued to occur in the Province. There have been reports of elephants and other animals attacking and killing people, especially in Chiawa and Luangwa District. There have also been instances of people resorting to killing these animals as a result of such occurrences. Allow me to state that the Lusaka Province is working hand in hand with the Zambia Wildlife Authority to ensure that these conflicts are minimised.

2008 Budget

Madam Chairperson, as Lusaka Province, we have endeavoured to ensure effective and efficient implementation of all programmes and activities through a consultative and timely budgeting preparation process. Various activities have been undertaken during 2007 most of which are still ongoing. As a result, the 2008/2010 MTEF for Lusaka Province has an emphasis on completion of the ongoing project rather than the introduction of new ones.

Allow me Madam, to outline some of the Provincial Budget Estimates for 2008 that are summarised as follows:

Item     Amount

 Personal Emoluments   10,425,312,257.00
 Recurrent Departmental Charges      7,037,199,500.00
 Grants           128,490,600.00
 Poverty Reduction Programmes      5,656,576,232.00
Total     23, 247,578,589.00

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, I wish to commend all the hon. Members of this House who have silently supported the budget estimates for my Province.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Hon. Members, I would like to repeat, for the sake of clarification, the guidance I gave at the beginning of these Votes. I meant that you are all free to debate. You should not wait for a specific province, but all of you should be free to debate. The Chair knows exactly who comes from which province. All of you have to debate the remaining Votes before we allow the ministers to come in. Therefore, all of you are free to debate your provinces according to the guidance I gave earlier. That is, three Members from each province. If you are less than three, that is fine.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Chairperson, I will be very brief, as I am not feeling too well.


Mr Kambwili: However, I want to thank you for giving me this opportunity to support the budget estimates for the Copperbelt Province. In doing so, Madam Chairperson, I would like to raise the following issues.

Madam, we need to seriously look at police accommodation in the Copperbelt Province. The houses that the police officers live in at present are not fit for human habitation. Police officers are not supposed to live outside police camps, but due to the critical shortage of accommodation in the Copperbelt Province, some of the police officers find themselves in the civilian compounds. This is dangerous because of the kind of work they do. Therefore, we need to look into this issue seriously.

Madam Chairperson, I also wish to speak on the issue of the Maposa squatter land. Last year, we provided a budget for the demarcation of the land and I am grateful that a head count was done, but we still wait for the final demarcation of plots for the small-scale farmers. I can only urge the provincial administration to ensure that this year, we demarcate the land for former Maposa squatters.

Consequently, we would like to use the Constituency Development Fund (CDF) to build infrastructure such as hospitals and schools, but because we do not know where the demarcations are going to end, it has become very difficult for us to know where we can build a school or a clinic in Maposa. Therefore, I can only urge the provincial administration to speed up the process of demarcating this area so that we can provide the social amenities to this community.

On the issue of road infrastructure on the Copperbelt, I wish to state that 4.7 per cent of the total Road Development Agency (RDA) budget that has been allocated to the Copperbelt Province is not enough. I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister to seriously look at the allocation for the Copperbelt. The Copperbelt is growing due to the mines that are coming up and traffic is three times as much as it was three years ago. When the traffic is growing and the number of cars increasing, that is when the allocation to the Copperbelt has been reduced. I am, therefore, appealing to the hon. Minister in charge of Works and Supply to seriously look for some money that would be saved on other roads to be given to the roads in the Copperbelt Province.

I am glad that the hon. Minister has indicated that the Kafulafuta/Luanshya Road which was done by China Hinan will be revisited after the rainy season. This road, as I had stated during the debate of the Ministry of Works and Supply, is in a very deplorable state and we may experience accidents on it. Therefore, I can only appeal to the hon. Minister to find some money that will be saved from other roads to be redirected to the Copperbelt Province.

Madam Chairperson, the football standards on the Copperbelt are going down by the day. What is the problem? The problem is very simple. The Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) used to sponsor football completely. We never experienced a situation where a national team could not have players originating from the Copperbelt. However, today, you find a situation whereby 70 per cent of the players in the national team are from Lusaka.

I can only urge the provincial administration to engage the mining companies to sponsor football the way ZCCM used to. Suffice to state that I am impressed with the way the Luanshya Copper Mines is sponsoring the Roan United Football Team. I am also glad to state that this year, the Luanshya Copper Mines have gone a step further by providing two buses for the supporters whenever the team is playing within the Copperbelt and Lusaka. This is a step in the right direction. I can only urge the provincial administration to approach the other mining companies like Mopani Copper Mines Plc for support.

Madam Chairperson, you may agree with me that Nkana Red Devils and Mufulira Wanderers were the once glorious clubs on the Copperbelt Province. However, because of the lack of sponsorship from Mopani Copper Mines Plc, both teams are not doing very well. Nkana Red Devils might have come in the Premier League not because of Mopani Copper Mines Plc, but because of certain businessmen and individuals who have come up to contribute to the once glorious club, Nkana Red Devils.

What about Mufulira? We do not have a lot of business activities in Mufulira. As a result, the Mighty Mufulira Wanderers is doing very badly in terms of football performance. For this reason, I can only urge Hon. Mwansa Mbulakulima, whom I know is an ardent soccer fun and administrator to engage these mining companies to ensure that they sponsor football on the Copperbelt.

I also wish to appeal to the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to speed up the feasibility studies for the Chingola/Kitwe dual carriage way. However, this road has become a death trap. Therefore, we really need to move very quickly to sort out this issue. Otherwise, a lot of lives will be lost.

Madam Chairperson, let me come to the issue of the relationships between the District Commissioners (DC) and Members of Parliament, more especially in the Opposition. As you may be aware, eighteen of the twenty-three Members of Parliament from the Copperbelt Province are from the Opposition. I must state here that, we received little co-operation from the office of the District Commissioners. We expect to work with the DCs in harmony, but the DCs on the Copperbelt do not look at us Opposition Members of Parliament as partners in the development of the nation. Like I stated earlier on the issue of the clinic in Mpatamatu, I approached the Luanshya Copper Mines to build a clinic and the DC of Luanshya has been against this project, claiming that if the clinic is built then the PF will become more popular than the MMD. This, indeed, is a very sad development. DCs must realise that Members of Parliament have a duty to deliver development to their electorates and they should not interfere with this.

Hon. Government Member: Question.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Chairperson,  I would also like to appeal to the Provincial Administration to engage the Luanshya Copper Mines in the selling of the ex-ZCCM houses to non miners who are sitting tenants. We have a problem in Luanshya where people will soon start killing each other over houses.  Houses have been offered to more than three people, more especially in Sections 9 and 24 of Mpatamatu, where there were excess houses. There is a lot of corruption among the people who are handling the sale of ZCCM houses. I can only appeal to the hon. Minister to engage ZCCM so that this problem is sorted out. What is happening in some instances is that somebody could have been a sitting tenant for over forty years and someone else comes and claims that he or she bought the house. The people who are buying the houses illegally are quickly rushing to courts to get court orders to evict the genuine sitting tenants. The provincial Administration must take this issue up and resolve it with the ZCCM management.

Madam Chairperson, suffice to state that I had a chat with Mr Chamutange the Lawyer, and when we looked at some letters of offer, we discovered that most of them were forged documents.

Madam Chairperson, I also want to implore the Provincial Administration to seriously look into the issue of schools in the peri-urban areas. We have a lot of community schools coming up in the peri-urban areas, but we need to help them procure school requirements such as desks and blackboards and so on and so forth. The community schools are supplementing the Government’s effort in the provision of education in peri-urban areas. So, please, I am appealing to the hon. Minister to engage the management of the community schools so that the Government can come in and supplement where they cannot manage.

With these few words, Madam Chairperson, I wish to thank you and support the Vote.

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): I thank you, Madam Chairperson, for giving me this opportunity to debate the Vote for the North-Western Province. I would like to state, from the outset, that I represent all my colleagues most of whom are Ministers and Deputy Ministers. Out of the thirteen Members of Parliament from the Province, only two are in the back bench while the rest are Ministers and Deputy Ministers.

Hon. Members for North-Western Province: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Madam Chairperson, the basic problem for development in the North-Western Province starts with education. There is a lack of adequate quality education for our people in the Province and that is what appears to be creating the problem of a lack of development in the Province.

Madam Chairperson, our Province does not have enough high schools. This is why we find that a lot of the people from our Province are uneducated.


Mr Kakoma: A lot of the people from our Province cannot access university education. You will be surprised to learn that in areas like my constituency, you can count the number of graduates by fingers. This is basically what is contributing to the under development in the Province. The Government should double its efforts in providing and constructing more high schools in the Province. The problem of a lack of educational facilities such as high schools is compounded by the fact that even the few high schools that we have in the Province are not adequately staffed. We have many examples of high schools that have no teachers of mathematic or physics, but at the end of the year, pupils are expected to sit for examinations in those subjects and compete nationally with other students. Therefore, this issue needs to be looked at because if this situation continues, we will continue to lag behind in terms of development.

Madam Chairperson, we also have problems of inadequate basic schools. Many pupils have still to travel long distances to school. They have to walk three to four hours every morning to go to the nearest basic school. This makes it difficult for our children, especially the younger ones in Grade 1 to attend school. As a result, many of these children do not attend school. They would rather engage in other activities such as fishing, herding cattle and so on and so forth.

Madam Chairperson, we still have plenty of Government schools that are made of pole and mad. On the list of the many schools that the Ministry of Education has earmarked to construct to replace the pole and mad schools throughout the country, the North-Western appears to have been left out. I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Education to step in and assist the Province to reconstruct schools that are still pole and mad. I think we must feel ashamed, as a country, that after many years of independence, our children are still learning in structures that are made of pole and mad. This appears to be a serious problem in our Province.

Madam Chairperson, still on education, I would like to say that because of the inadequate facilities offered by the Government in terms of schooling, people have come up with community initiatives to educate their children through community schools.

However, this is not helping in providing the quality education to the children because, for example, the teachers in community schools are not trained. As a result, the quality of education that they impart to the young ones is not good.

We would like to request the Government to help the community schools with, for example, teachers in order to improve the quality of education. The people are poor and cannot manage to pay salaries for the community school teachers that they have employed and always look forward to the hon. Members of Parliament paying the teachers’ salaries. This is becoming a serious problem and, therefore, the Ministry needs to look into it.

Madam Chairperson, the second big problem for the Province is in terms of health facilities and services. In particular, we have problems relating to the health kit. Many of the health centres run out of medicines. The health supplies that are sent to the rural health centres run out within a week. This is because there is a bad policy by the Ministry of Health that these health kits can only be distributed once in a month or two months. This is creating serious health issues for the people in the Province.

It is even worse in those constituencies, for example, that are afflicted by floods. The same health kit that was delivered in November, which ran out within one week, is the same empty health kit that the people are looking at without medicines. So for the duration of the flood period, people have no access to modern medicines.

In many places, we also do not have adequate medical staff to man the health centres. I can give an example of the Chinyama Litapi Rural Health Centre that has had no medical officer or nurse for the many years that I have been associated with that area as hon. Member of Parliament. That health centre is manned by an office orderly who was just picked from the village. This is the situation on the ground. Now, how does the Government expect to provide quality health care to the Zambian people with an office orderly as a doctor?

Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Health needs to look into this problem seriously. Talking about inadequate health facilities, when His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC., visited Zambezi some time back to inspect the floods, he visited a place called Nyembe which is in the middle of nowhere and has no health centre. The people there walk for two days to get to the nearest district hospital and the President felt touched and instructed officials in his delegation to ensure that a health centre was constructed.

Madam Chairperson, to date, nobody appears to be taking that instruction seriously. This is what makes the President appear to be somebody who does not tell the truth. Come next election, even if he is not going to stand, people will still think that the Movement for Multi-party Democracy’s (MMD) President is always misleading them by giving them false promises and they will not want to be associated with a party that produces presidents who do not honour their promises.

Madam Chairperson, we still have problems of funding in these …

Mr Malwa: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Malwa: Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Member of Parliament for Zambezi West who is debating very well in order to insinuate that the Republican President gave false directives that the works had to be done and those works have not been done without laying any proof on the Table?

I need your serious ruling, Madam.

The Chairperson: The concern of the hon. Deputy Minister in the Office of the Vice-President is actually a debatable one. The hon. Member on the Floor is referring to the officials who were in the Presidents delegation and what he has observed. I think that the hon. Minister will probably clarify the matter when he comes to wind up debate on this Vote.

Mr Kakoma, you may continue, please.

Mr Kakoma: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for your wise ruling. We have a serious problem of funding in our heath institutions. At Chiningi Mission Hospital, for example, patients only eat one meal per day. You can imagine that somebody who is sick, weak and probably afflicted by a disease such as HIV/AIDS and needs to eat a lot can only getting one meal per day because the subsidies that are given to the health institutions, especially the mission hospitals, are not enough.

Madam Chairperson, we need to be very serious about taking care of the lives of the Zambian people. The argument that the Government does not have enough money to adequately finance the health institutions is neither here nor there because as we have witnessed in the past, a lot of money, such as the K900 billion, remains unutilised but people are dying in hospitals because of lack of medicines and meals. How do we run a country like that?

Madam Chairperson, let me look at one other important issue which is affecting the Province and that is the problem of energy and water. We still have a serious problem of electricity in the Province. Apart from Solwezi and Kasempa, which are connected to the National Grid, the rest of the Province is still running on generators. More often than not we have blackouts because either people have run out of diesel or the generators have broken down.

Madam Chairperson, the people are, therefore, asking why they are not being connected to the National Grid. For example, why should they be given hope that they should wait until a new power station has been developed or until Jesus comes? In any case, the people agreed to have those new power stations in their areas, especially if the local people were given an opportunity to invest in the power stations. This has not happened because the bids put by the local people were ignored and rejected and we are waiting for people from outside the Province to develop the power stations, but they are not forth coming. Meanwhile we continue to experience blackouts. There have been many occasions in the past when the students from high schools have rioted and even damaged the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) offices because of this same problem of electricity.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to urge this Government to assist the able hon. Member of Parliament for Chavuma, through the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development, by giving him the facilities to put up power stations …

Mr Kakoma’s time expired.

The Chairperson: Order!

Dr Kalumba (Chienge): Madam Chairperson, this part of the debate is always difficult for me because it confines us to think regional when we are national leaders. As such, it is very difficult.

However, let me acknowledge that as Member of Parliament for Chienge, I would like to represent my colleagues from the Luapula Province on the issue of development for Luapula.

Firstly, I would like to thank the Government for the efforts they have made in improving access to the Province by establishing the Chembe Bridge. We hope that the construction will be completed. It has been a great achievement for this Government to answer one of the long outstanding cries for the people of Luapula, Northern and the Copperbelt Provinces. I must add that they have now, in due time, easy access to and from the Copperbelt.

However, planning for the Luapula and Northern Provinces that does not take into account the inter connections between the Copperbelt, Northern and Luapula Provinces always fails public policy. It is important, as a matter of comment, that our planners take into account the inter connectivity of these three regions in order to succeed.

Coming specifically to the Luapula Province, we bemoan the fact that there are promises that are still outstanding and I hope the hon. Ministers, particularly the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives will pay attention to our cry for the implementation of the Luena Sugar Plantation. It has been an outstanding promise for a long time. The Luena Sugar Plantation has been on the books since the 1980s and we are still awaiting action on this matter.

We were very encouraged when the MMD New Deal Administration made a move to mobilise consultative teams to look into the implementation of that particular project. We have noticed that there has been a cold slot in this project and nothing is happening now. We would urge the Government not to give up on this very important initiative. I know that the initial commitment can be revitalised with the leadership of the hon. Ministers of Agriculture and Co-operatives, now that both Madam Sayifwanda and Hon. Kapita are very committed individuals. I hope that they will continue keeping this promise of the Luena Sugar Plantation in sight.

Secondly, in the area of agriculture, we are concerned that the Kawambwa Tea Plantation is somewhat dead.

Hon. Luapula province Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: We do not understand, as a region, what has gone wrong. It is important that for purposes of good political governance that the Government finds a team to access carefully and perhaps inform the public about what has happened to the Kawambwa Tea Plantation. It appears that it has been changing hands from one investor to the other, but we are not seeing any effective yield in terms of agricultural output or employment creation and so on and so forth, which is the cry of our people in this regard.

Madam Chairperson both the Kawambwa Tea and Mununshi Banana Plantation, again, have cold slots. There is nothing happening much, meaning that in the areas of large-scale farming; large scale plantations, our province has been short changed.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Madam Chairperson, the cries of Luapula in terms of the Tuta/Kashikishi/Luchinga Road is a very important one.

Hon. Luapula Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Kalumba: I think we would risk losing lives if the budget that has been made available by the Ministry of Works and Supply is not up taken quickly by finding a contractor who can move on site.

For a person like myself who travels by public transport either by CR or these other public vehicles, I have seen the danger, particularly at night because most buses go to Luapula at night. There are giant gullies on the road and sometimes the whole bus sinks in them.

It is important that we avert a potential loss of lives if a contractor can move on site. I know that there is some money in the budget. Therefore, it is important that a contractor moves on site quickly to avoid possible losses of lives.

Hon. Luapula Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: It gets worse when you move between the bridge and Mansa and also between Mwense and Mbereshi. We hope that we can move quickly and avoid bad press on the Government’s intention. Let us not delay the money that is in the budget. The quick release of the money to get a contractor on site will gain us good mileage as far as the public in Luapula is concerned.

We are grateful that the Government has moved to continue the works on the Mansa Hospital, but we are also aware of the fact that many districts do not have viable district hospitals. I know that we discussed this in the context of the Ministry of Health Budget, but we would like to add a word from a regional perspective that we do not have district hospitals. This is one Province where there has been a serious deficit in terms of the provision of district hospitals.

If we look at Milenge District Hospital, there is nothing there. As for Samfya, we are just working on finalising a district hospital there and I hope that it can be equipped quickly for our people to have access. The population in Samfya is very big, so we are grateful that, at least, in this respect the Government has made progress.

However, other districts like Mwense, for example, have literally no Government hospitals.

Hon. Luapula Province Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Coming back to Nchelenge and Chienge, there are no Government hospitals there. In this regard, there is a serious need for the Government to move in so as to close those gaps. I know we can do it with the current commitment by the hon. Minister to up take some projects in terms of hospital construction at the district level. It is good for policies, governance and for the people. It is something we can all be happy about once implemented.

I know that in the general scenario of public policy, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives is emphasising on maize growing and so on and so forth. We are cassava growers, but we have learnt a little more about maize and we are growing a little of it for sale, but this is, at the same time, undermining our staple food, cassava. We have seen that at the same time, other cereals such as rice, that we are very good at producing, are not being fully encouraged.

We are quite happy to export our cassava stalks to the Southern Province and we are doing a very good job of that. We hope our sisters in the South can be good cassava growers, but we need a little more attention in the growing of maize. The fact that we are learning to grow maize does not mean we should not be considered priority areas for maize growing. I think the hon. Minister will be surprised if they invest a lot more in maize growing in my area because we might even surpass the Southern Province. When the Southern Province will be growing cassava,  and we shall be growing maize.

Madam Chairperson, Luapula is a very good Province for rearing cattle. I am a cattle farmer myself and I have seen that we can do it.

Hon. UPND Members: You will eat them!

Dr Kalumba: We do not eat any more.


Dr Kalumba: We have fed this nation with our fish and we have finished our fish, feeding everybody. Now we are looking forward to looking after cattle. We have very beautiful land. I am inviting Hon. Hachipuka to bring some of his animals to my ranch, and I will definitely help him look after his animals. We have good grazing land in Kawambwa, Samfya, Chienge, Nchelenge and many other places. We are a tsetse fly free area. We do not have the denkete disease.

I am sure that if our colleagues have problems in keeping animals, we will be more than ready to host them. It means in fact, that if the hon. Minister or the Government is focused on trying to reduce the risk that is posed to animals in certain areas, it can look to our region to make sure that we promote cattle farming.

I have seen that there is some money in the budget for restocking fish in the Itezhi-tezhi Dam, I am happy about that because we are widening and broadening the scope of fish farming and restocking fish in water bodies. However, I would have loved to see a continuation of the previous commitment by the Government to restock the water bodies in Bangweulu, Mweru Wantipa as wells as Mweru proper.

I have seen no money in the Budget this year for restocking fish in these major water bodies. I know that the hon. Minister has expressed concern with respect to the fishing methods, but as I have said on this Floor before, we need better policing of the water bodies during the fish ban. That is the only magic to it. There is no other magic. Therefore, to stop restocking is not the answer. I think we have to continue restocking.

 I bemoan the fact that this year, there is no money for restocking fish in Mweru Wantipa, Bangweulu as well as Mweru proper. I do not know why this is so because the hon. Minister gave a very strong commitment on the Floor that he would continue re-stocking the water bodies. I do not know what has happened. I would like to hear what has happened in this respect from the Government.

Hon. Government Member: Mosquito nets.

Dr Kalumba: Aah yes, Mosquito nets. Regarding potable water supply, we have plenty of water in our region. However, this is not safe drinking water. Somehow, there is a perception that because there are Lakes Mweru and Mweru Wantipa and the Luapula River, there is healthy potable water. No, there is not. Therefore, we must be considered as equally as any other region with respect to the sinking of boreholes. I am glad the hon. Minister announced that there would be a number of boreholes to be sunk in the Province. However, when you compare to the demand, the number falls short. I hope that there could be some sourcing of extra funds to bring more investment in this respect.

Madam Chairperson, you know that our Province has been a major source of water borne epidemics and one such epidemic is cholera. I hope that you would stand with us as a country and as Zambia to support our cry for better drinking water sources by investing in boreholes.

Mr Chongo: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: Madam Chairperson, finally, we have a number of new districts in the Luapula Province and some old ones that are under developed. District infrastructure is really needed.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: If you look at Milenge, it is a district, but there is nothing there in terms of infrastructure.

Mr Chongo: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: A district administration defines the Government’s presence and makes it possible for people for to access the Government policy through the local administration system.

Mr Sikazwe: Hear, hear!

Dr Kalumba: I hope that we can have the presence of the Government in places like Milenge and other areas, effectively. It is good for our governing system.

Madam Chairperson, talking about the road infrastructure, there are some roads that are perennial in terms of our concerns, apart from the Tuta Road that I have mentioned. There is what we call the security road from Milenge to Mwense. It is a strategic road that needs graveling.  It is good for our security, hon. Minister of Defence. If we paid attention to that particular road, we will protect Zambia in times of need because that has been an entry point in times of crisis for rebels who are moving back and forth from the countries that I will not mention. Please, secure Zambia by ensuring that we have that security road to make it easy for our officers in uniform when the need comes to rush to the border quickly and defend our mother land.

There is the road from Mulwe turn off going to Chipili and Kawambwa to Nchelenge. It is an important road and would reduce the cost of business, particularly for people who want to do business in Kawambwa. At the moment, you have to go round and turn round and come back and it costs a lot to use this route, and yet you have a very short distance there which can reduce the cost of doing business in places like Kawambwa Mushota and others. I have seen some interest in that road, but have not seen some major movements in the Budget. I would wish to see some major movements in the Budget there. It is part of the broadening of opportunities for poverty reduction in districts that have poor access to markets. That would reduce the cost of transporting agricultural produce commodities from Kawambwa to Mansa and the Copperbelt. We hope that there will be some attention to that.

For my love song, the Kashikishi/Lunchinga Road, I am grateful that the Ministry of Works and Supply has put a contractor on site to gravel that road. We hope that the gravelling of the road is just the beginning of the major promise we had of tarring the road from Kashikishi to Lunchinga. The people are happy that the Government has shown good intentions by gravelling it, but we hope it will be tarred in due course. It also makes it possible to access the very important district called Kaputa. Kaputa and Chienge are close to each other and just a short cut from Kashikishi/Lunchinga Road would reach Kaputa. It is much easier to reach Kaputa from Chienge than it is from Kasama/ Mporokoso to Kaputa. I advocate for that road as well from Mununga to Kaputa and from Chienge through Lambwe Chomba to Kaputa.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the budget for the Western Province.

Mr Imenda: Tawachivota bwino.

Ms Imbwae: In doing that, I would like to indicate that I paid attention to the policy statement and, in particular, I picked these three items that the provincial administration is expected to do. They are supposed to plan, monitor and carry out audits. I will try to restrict my debate to these three.

Madam Chairperson, I looked at the Budget for the Western Province line by line and wondered what planning our provincial administration did. There are certain aspects that I wanted to draw attention to. Other hon. Members will go into the details, but I just want to lay the foundation.

Madam Chairperson, what were they planning for? Is it infrastructure? If it is, why is it that various school infrastructure in the district is not looked at? Must we come to personally cry about constituencies and say there is only mud and pole? Is it not possible for the province to realise that there are certain constituencies where there is not a single high school? Is it not possible for the Province to realise that they are not connected to the provincial headquarters? Is it not possible for the province to plan for health facilities in each of our districts because if we all stood up, we would say it is very difficult for our ordinary people, especially women and children to access health facilities? When we come to ask the various line ministries, they tell us the requests have not come from the province, district or from whoever is at the grassroots.

With regard to schools, I could adopt Hon. Kakoma’s words as my own. Most rural parts of the Western Province are still mud and pole.

Hon. Opposition Member: Kwasha Mukwenu.

Ms Imbwae: I do not know how we think that we shall achieve the Millennium Development Goals if our Province is not looking into the needs of each child in the Western Province and expecting that child to access a school place.

Mr D. Mwila: Hammer!

Ms Imbwae: Where shall we go? When we started to mourn last year that most of our schools in the Western Province were mud and pole, we were promised a list. We have seen that list and I am very sure that in my constituency, there is not a single high school to date. When will they get to begin to improve the quality of life? I am still talking about the Province.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to talk about audits very quickly. What are they auditing? Is it the finances of the province? I have looked at the Budget lines and when we come to discuss them, I will mention where I see deficiencies and reductions. If it is not the financial audit, is it the human resource audit? If it is not, how do they plan to have various districts, for lack of a better word, manned? There is a definite Government structure for running each of the Government departments. If there are deficiencies in the provision of human resources, why is it that the province has not made a serious demand for a staff compliment in the areas where they are needed?

Coming to capacity building, there is deficiency in human resources in all of our district headquarters not because the people do not want to be trained, but because someone who is supposed to look at their training possibilities has not done so. I looked, again, at the Budget; there has been a reduction on training provision. How shall we improve as a Province if we cannot train our own staff?

Regarding decentralisation, I have a lot of hope. I am beginning to think that maybe that is when we shall begin to reach where other provinces have. In expressing my hope, I would like to draw attention to some little pointers. How many members of staff are at each district office? How many members of staff are at each line ministry?

Madam Chairperson, when I debated the structure of the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives last year, I pointed out that we did not have block and camp officers in the Western Province. I can specifically say that there is no block or camp officer in Lukulu District. What has happened to the Government’s provision of services? How do we ensure that there is food security in the province? Those are the areas which are flooded annually. We rejoice that we are able to omboka every year, but we would also like to rejoice that we are able to grow food twice a year.

Mr Tetamashimba: There will be no Kuomboka this year.

Ms Imbwae: Previously, we used to grow maize and other crops during the normal farming season, but as the water receded, we grew winter maize. This is what caused people in Chiawa sing about winter maize. We have been doing that, but all we need is support from the Government to help people in the Province. People will be able to grow their own food. Even when the rains come, with whatever intensity or with whatever spread of the waters, people will still be able to have enough food. It is not good to start wondering where to get relief food for the constituency from. This is not something one can be proud of because it is not the desire of the province.

While still commenting on the issue relating to food security, I would like to adopt Dr Katele Kalumba’s words as my own because we come from areas that are endowed with lakes and rivers. We have noticed that there is no provision for fish restocking in the Budget. There are many people who can be interested in growing fish and increase the supply of protein in this country.

Major Chizhyuka: But it is dying!

Ms Imbwae: Well, fish is rarely attacked by diseases except last year. Otherwise, fish is something that is easy to grow.

Madam Chairperson, our major concern is about animal diseases in the Western Province. Previously, we used to supply a lot of cattle to many parts of this country, but now we have all types of cattle diseases. No one wants to control these diseases to enable our cattle multiply so that we increase our wealth. I am appealing to people in the Province not wait for Members of Parliament to indicate that a cattle disease has broken out in the Province. The Province must have the capacity to monitor what is happening so that they know where there is a need and when they would want us to support their request. We will do it, but they should also be prepared to support us when we are making requests.

Getting back to the issue of auditing, I am not sure whether districts in other provinces are adequately audited, but I can speak for Lukulu District. We need a serious audit carried out so that we know how the Government finances are expended. Sometimes moneys are voted to the districts, but for various reasons, whether it is a lack of capacity …


The Chairperson: Order! It is becoming a little difficult for the Chair to concentrate because there is a lot of loud consultation on both sides of the House.

Can the hon. Member, continue, please.

Ms Imbwae: I was talking about auditing districts. If the Government does not monitor money that is sent to the provinces, districts and eventually to the various lower levels, and I know that monitoring is one of the aspects of the policy statement, I wonder how we can expect to succeed auditing all the districts in the country.

May I now comment on the issue of connectivity? I know that other hon. Members will go into details about the roads. However, I am wondering how the Government is planning to connect Mongu to Kaoma because some parts of this road are bad. I am aware that there are some maintenance works going on, but that is a straightforward thing. How do you connect Mongu to Sesheke, Mongu to Shang’ombo, Mongu to Senanga, Mongu to Kalabo or Mongu to Lukulu? How do you connect one district to another?

I would think that someone is planning to make it easy for the provincial administration vehicle to move from one district to another without having to take various routes. This is totally expensive and a waste of Government’s resources. For example, you cannot go to Lukulu District directly from Mongu because you have to make a loop as if you are going to Kaoma and then divert, and yet there is a straight road that the Province can plan for. When we go searching for the road maps at the Roads Development Agency (RDA), we do not see these things. I am, therefore, suggesting to the provincial administration to connect the districts in their planning mechanism so that people can move easily.

Apart from connecting one district to another, constituencies also need to be connected to one another.

Mr Imenda: Hammer your husbands.

Mr Imbwae: Otherwise, what kind of planning are we doing? Our neighbours from the North-Western Province, across the river, have mines and minerals. If we do not put our house in order, who will be interested in investing in our Province? It is difficult to access places where there is oil, natural gas and all these other minerals.

Madam Chairperson, with regard to the issue of security, I wish to mention that there is a very long border between the Western Province and Angola which the province does not seem to be concerned about. It is so porous that crime levels have increased. That is where all sorts of activities happen. I am, therefore, reminding the Government that they have a responsibility to support every province.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Madam Chairperson, I thank you very much for according me this opportunity to debate the Vote for the Southern Province.

Madam, the Southern Province is a troubled Province which is either hit by floods or drought. If there is no drought or flood, then the Province is hit by both like what we have seen this year.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Therefore, we expect that the Contingency Fund that the Government has provided for the Southern Province Vote …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: … is made use of. Tomorrow, we do not want to hear that the Contingency Fund has been used for things that are nowhere.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam Chairperson, with reference to my opening remarks, we expect that the water in the Southern Province will be trapped so that it is used for human and animal consumption.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam Chairperson, that way, I think it will make a lot of sense. I am sure it will be appreciated by everybody.

Madam, the Southern Province depends on agriculture, especially livestock. The question is, when did we last build a Government deep tank in the Southern Province? As a country, we are so proud that the Southern Province has good land for animals but we have not built a deep tank there. If we have tried to rehabilitate a deep tank, may be we have just sent five roofing sheets or so, which is extremely disappointing. We, therefore, urge the Government to try to deal with this matter urgently.

Madam Chairperson, the provinces are supposed to co-ordinate activities in the various districts, but do they do that? The answer is no. These provinces have various problems. At times you would find that the department officials only have one vehicle in Livingstone which is supposed to service all the districts. Therefore, how can these people work? We have new districts like Kazungula and Itezhi-tezhi. How many schools have we built there? You can imagine that the whole of Bweengwa Constituency has no high school.

Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!


Mr Beene: Madam, we have talked about the Bottom Road in this House. For how long are we going to talk about it? I am sure the library of Parliament is full of information on the Bottom Road and Chavuma Road, but why can we not make a difference if really, we mean well?

Madam, at the moment, we are talking about the power outages in Itezhi-tezhi and the Government is telling this Hose and the nation that they want to build in the power stations in lower Kafue and Itezhi-tezhi. A road to Itezhi-tezhi is just a small path. Where are you going to pass with the equipment? Therefore, how serious are you when you say that you are going to stop the outages in Itezhi-tezhi when there is no road to that district? Tell me, are you going to fly the machinery on a plane?


Mr Beene: Which airline can do that? Ngoma Lodge has never been cleared? The area is full of elephants. These are the issues that I am urging the Government to try to be very serious about and assist the provinces. The provinces even have difficulty holding Provincial Development Co-ordinating Committee (PDCC) meetings. The problem is that the Government does not help these provinces with any money. They approve the use of dollars from the Germany Technical Assistance to Zambia (GTZ) just to have a planning meeting for the province.

Hon. UNDP Members: Imagine!

Mr Beene: Madam, when you come to the PDCC meetings, it will be completely impossible because they will not even have any imprest even for just coca-cola in order to do the planning for the district. Therefore, how serious are we when we say that the provinces are going to co-ordinate the works?

Madam Chairperson, I would like to come to the issue of feeder roads. The feeder roads in the Southern Province are completely damaged because of the heavy rains. You do not even need people to go and assess the situation. Even the culverts are not there. For you to travel from Itezhi-tezhi to Livingstone, you have to go round through Mumbwa, Lusaka and then proceed to Livingstone. I had to cover 2000 kilometres, which is a shame. It is even impossible for me to pass through Hon. Muntanga’s Constituency which is just next to my constituency because of the same problem. 

Madam, the situation in Gwembe Constituency is completely helpless. The roads are in a very bad state. We, therefore, expect the Contingency Fund to be used, Hon. Shakafuswa.

Mr Shakafuswa: Tomorrow!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!


Mr Beene: Madam Chairperson, animal diseases are rampant in that area. These diseases come from Sesheke, but what has been done about this? All we are told is that we cannot transport animals and that we find a formula from ZamBeef on how to transport these animals, which is extremely unfair. Let us make use of the Southern Province because it has enough potential. It has potential in tourism, provision of electricity and food. How many dams has this Government planned for the Southern Province?

Hon. UNDP Members: None!

Mr Beene: Zero! Therefore, do you mean well? If you do, how?

Madam Chairperson, Kazungula is one of the new districts in the Southern Province. We expect you to prioritise the new districts. That is critical. You are supposed to prioritise issues of education in the new districts as you improve the old districts.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to find out why Itezhi-tezhi …

Professor Lungwangwa: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

Madam Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Professor Lungwangwa: Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi, who is debating so well and so eloquently in order to leave out the good construction works going on in Itezhi-tezhi of a high school that is now almost at the roof level? Is he in order to leave out such an important infrastructure developmental programme going on in his district which is a priority of the Government, including Kazungula?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Chairperson: Order! The concern of the hon. Minister of Education is that the hon. Member debating is leaving out very important developmental projects in the Province. The Chair would like to guide that Hon. Beene takes that point of order into very serious consideration.

He may continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam Chairperson, the point I am putting across here is that the Government’s projects are on and off which it has failed to complete them. At the moment, the construction of Itezhi-tezhi High School has stalled. Money was paid, but works have stopped. These are the issues we are talking about. This also includes Bweengwa Constituency which has no high school.

Hon. UNDP Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam Chairperson, I therefore, will thank the hon. Minister only when the construction of the school has been completed. We want him do better than that. The hon. Minister should ensure that projects do not stall.

Madam Chairperson, Livingstone is a cardinal place for this country and we still expect a stadium there. We need sporting facilities in the Southern Province.

Hon. UNDP Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: As you may be aware, our children and grandchildren are fond of chasing animals. This means that they are very fit people and can make good soccer players.

Hon. UNDP Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: Madam, in this regard, building a stadium should be a priority in Livingstone.

Madam, I would like to talk about the issue of chiefdoms. The Province will need support from the Government in order improve the chiefdoms, palaces and the roads to the chiefdoms. We should not only see these roads when going to attend traditional ceremonies. Let us try to remember the infrastructure in the chiefdoms all the time because this is extremely important. At times, it is quiet difficult to understand why the Government can completely neglect the infrastructure in these palaces. Therefore, we expect that Contingency Fund also to be able to help in the areas that have been neglected from the beginning.

Hon. UNDP Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: That is very important. The same applies to the issue of electrification, even if there are power outages, we should have solar systems in the palaces to uplift the standard of living for honourable chiefs. They have done a lot to support the leadership in rural areas. That is why we have the mandate that has resulted in some of us being here. Let us remember that critical fact. 

Madam Chairperson, most parts of the Southern Province cover national parks like the Kafue National Park. Some of the money realised through Community Resource Boards (CRBs) is from there. I would like to urge the Government to consider reducing hunting fees in those areas to reduce poaching. You cannot expect a villager to afford the fee for a buffalo which is K2.5 million. It is not possible. You are actually encouraging corruption among the villagers …

Hon. UPDN Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Beene: …and the Zambia Wildlife Authority (ZAWA) officials. There is no way you can expect a villager to raise K700,000 to buy a duiker. If you mean well then learn to listen.


The Chairperson: Order! I think that the Chair does not expect people to be here and go to sleep. However, when you shout across, how do you expect the Chair to follow the debate? It is part of being honourable to, sometimes, control yourself and listen.

The hon. Member may continue, please.

Mr Beene: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for that intervention. I would like people to listen very carefully.

Madam Chairperson, Livingstone is one of the best tourist places centres in this country. However, just after Zimba, the main road to Livingstone is pathetic. Let the Government do something about that road. It is endangering people’s lives. Most hon. Members in the Executive who have travelled to different places, know the state of roads that they travel on. Let us try to do something about these roads because they get us to our constituencies.

Madam Chairperson, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Madam Chairperson, I stand to support the provincial Vote. I want to thank ba kapa, Dr Katele Kalumba, for having made my work simple, particularly because he tackled very important developmental issues that the people of Luapula have always told us to talk about. As I speak, it is on behalf of the people of the Luapula Province.

Madam Chairperson, the Luapula Province is one such province where you will least find space where there are no people. From Serenje, in the Central Province, you will drive through to Samfya, Mansa, Kashikishi and Kaputa, and not see a forest at all. There are people all over. This means that development is required because people are thirsty for it.

Madam Chairperson, Luapula is such a Province where in the early 1940s and 50s, people were used to the luxury of travelling on buses. That was the time we had Local Mumba, Musango, Kapalala Stars and so on. We are a people that are clean and are used to travelling comfortably. What Dr Kalumba said about the Tuta Road is true. Madam, if you travel on that road as well, you will appreciate the fact that it is risky, especially for people travelling at night. I want to emphasise that point.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to talk about one the key aspects of development, and that is electricity. When I last debated on the Floor of this House, I lamented the fact that we needed the Ministry of Energy and Water Development to consider giving capacity to the Musonda Falls Power Station which was constructed in 1960. Furthermore, I handed to the hon. Minister, documentary evidence that I brought from Mansa on the state of the power station. The station is forty-eight years old now and the machinery is quite old. The issue of power generation for the Luapula and Northern Provinces is critical for national development. The Contingency Fund we have approved should be appropriated to the development of the Musonda Falls Power Station. The station only requires one machine which can generate 15 Mega Watts, and Luapula and part of the Northern Province would be sufficiently supplied with power and there would be no arguments at all.

Hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development, if it had been during the era of Mankhangala, I would have gone to cry before him because that is the language that he understood. I would have gone to cry before him because when he saw tears, he was considerate. Now, I cannot cry. However, I am saying that development in the Luapula Province cannot take place if that power station is not worked on.

Madam Chairperson, I went on to mention that there were so many potential investors who had gone to the Luapula Province. One of the investors is eyeing limestone mining. He has intentions of putting up a Cement Factory in Mansa because the limestone in that area is of a good grade for cement and lime manufacturing. Last week, he was in the Province and he informed the Provincial Permanent Secretary that unless he was assured that he would be given 8 Mega Watts of power for the machinery, he was not willing to invest. He is ready to invest in this venture, but is constrained because he has not been assured of a constant power supply.

On the Floor of this House, I also mentioned that already, in Mansa, the machinery at the former LCU Hatchery is lying idle. The investors in poultry want to plant their machines, but there is the question and constraint of power supply. At the moment, gold has been discovered in the Luapula Province, and we are mining manganese at a small scale. Investors who would like to mine manganese on a large scale were in Mansa last week. They proposed that until a constant supply of power is assured, they are not able to start crushing manganese. They would like to turn Mansa into a crushing factory, with furnaces, but maintain that they would require 15 Mega Watts to begin doing that in order to add value to the manganese being produced in the Luapula Province.

Madam Chairperson, we would like to thank the Government for the construction of the Chembe Bridge that is almost complete. The completion of the bridge means that vehicles from Kaputa and Mporokoso carrying chilemba and those from Nakonde and Mpulungu will use that road to get to the Copperbelt, midlands and the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) to sell their produce. This means that there will be increased development as well. One of the issues that they will talk about is how good it is to travel on this road.

Madam Chairperson, the other issue I would like to talk about is that of tourism. If tourism is to be promoted in the provinces, it is important to electrify guest houses rather than have candlelit ones.  If there is a part of Zambia that is, indeed, endowed with beautiful natural resources, some of which are of historical significance, it is the Luapula and Northern Provinces. If only these places could be developed into tourism centres, they would attract the world. It is unfortunate because some of the places shall never be visited.

Madam Chairperson, it is only in the Luapula Province where you have a mysterious tree called amano, which has all types of leaves. That is why the people of Luapula are wise …


Mr Chimbaka: …because we have the wisdom tree. I am telling you the truth. It is the only tree in Samfya that grows mangoes, oranges, guavas, apples, masuku and many other fruits. I must commend Hon. Kaingu because he is aware that if that area was opened for tourists …

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

Mr Chimbaka: Madam Chairperson, before business was suspended, I spoke about a mysterious tree called mano. My cousins from the east are saying that I was lying, but I want to tell them that I am not lying.

Madam Chairperson, that tree has all sorts of leaves and if you want to go to that tree, you should first go to Samfya and ask the District Commission for guidance. It is found in the place called Mano which is between Samfya and Katansha. Having said that, I would like to warn you that before you go there you should seek guidance from Hon. Kasongo because if Hon. Peter Daka will go there, playing with his magic from the Eastern Province, he is going to get lost and will be swallowed up.


Mr Chimbaka: Madam Chairperson, apart from the tree, I want to attract Hon. Kaingu’s attention to the fact that apart from the mano tree, we also have a unique …

Madam Chairperson: Order! Order! Do not be tempted to speak directly to hon. Ministers, but through the Chair.

May the hon. Member, please, continue.

Mr Chimbaka: Madam Chairperson, much obliged.

Madam Chairperson, with significance interest, there is another tree called chilubi. When you hear of Chilubi Island, again there is a tree which is unique in its being. Instead of having roots in the grounds, it has roots up there and leaves down there …

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka:… and it is ever green. That is Luapula.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to tell you that apart from the caves, there is a place called Mantapala. Hon. Dr Katele Kalumba can agree with me. When you are in Chienge, go to Mantapala, there are unique trees also there.


Mr Chimbaka: Those are just a few in addition to the wide sand beaches of the Lakes Mweru and Bangweulu. The wide sand beaches of the Luapula River are very colorful. You would wonder you are in Zambia. There are waterfalls like Mambuluma just to mention but a few. The whole of Luapula has more potential for tourism than any other provinces in Zambia. Therefore, I would like to plead with Hon. Kaingu with his vision and proficiency, to conduct a tour of the province and I will accompany him so that I show him all these places of interest.

 Hon. Members: Hear. hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Madam Chairperson, the other issue I would like to talk about is education. The Luapula beat the whole nation this year with the highest marks. Congratulations, dear professor.

Having said that, I would like to tell you that you should not be excited because you have indicated that you are giving Luapula Province a girls’ technical school in my constituency, Musonda Falls. Could you please expedite this? It is very exciting because people out there have heard about this. This is quite a good beginning and we want to encourage you to expedite this.

Madam Chairperson, the other issue I would like to talk about is in regard to the opening of the Milenge District. Probably people do not know that the nearest town to Milenge District is Ndola.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Therefore, tapping electricity from Ndola Town should not be a problem. People who travel from Luapula to the Copperbelt use the Kapalala Road. When you are in Milenge, you are able to see the lights in Ndola. You can even shout like I am doing right now and you would hear the echo, “hello!”


Mr Chimbaka: ...because it is a stone throw away. Therefore, instead of tapping electricity from Samfya which is so many kilometers away, the Government should facilitate the transmission of electricity from Ndola across the Luapula River into Milenge and my area will be lit. We also want to have towns like there are in certain provinces. There are beautiful beaches there. People who went there followed gold. This is the development we want to see in the Luapula Province.

I also want to say that in terms of mineral resources that God has endowed us with, we are the only province that has naturally iodized salt. Tourists would like to go to Kaputa to see Zambians make the salt like the one I have in my room at the moment. It is natural salt.

If you went to Chienge, you would find this salt that grows naturally. It is just a matter of mining it. There is also mineral prospecting in Chienge. I, therefore, would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Mines and Mineral Development to extend mineral exploration to Luapula.

Madam Chairperson, there are so many minerals in Kaputa. People get surprised when I talk about Kaputa.  I Do not want to excite the Chairperson. I am talking about Kaputa as part of my area.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Madam Chairperson, if you went to Kaputa you would find so many minerals that are easy to dig and people just pick them. Refuges that go there become rich because pick all these minerals, sell them and leave.


Mr Chimbaka: I am rich because I am knowledgeable. I do not desire dirty riches, but I desire knowledge.

Madam Chairperson: Order! Order! Could the hon. Member on Floor make sure that he just looks at the Chair and concentrate on his debate. Do not listen to those that debate from their seats.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Madam Chair, I thank you very much.

Madam Chairperson, as I wind up, I would like to say that apart from minerals, there are other issues that hon. Dr Kalumba talked about in his debate. As for hospitals, I remember in last year’s Budget, I saw an appropriation of K200 million …

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: Order!

Madam Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Madam Chairperson, is the hon. Member on the Floor in order to claim that the whole of Luapula Province is intelligent when a tree in Chinsali for a Ng’umbo  woman who was clever was married to an Ushi. 
Is he, therefore, in order to claim that this Ushi who is not a Ng’umbo and knows the tree is also clever or intelligent? I need your serious ruling.


The Chairperson: Order! The Chair was listening very carefully to the debate. Maybe the Chair listens more carefully than all of you here. The Chair did not hear any reference to the terms ‘clever’ or ‘intelligent’ as regards the point of order that has been raised, but heard the word ‘wisdom’. In the Chair’s wisdom, there are very different.

 Could the hon. member continue, please.


Mr Chimbaka: Thank you, Madam Chairperson, for your protection and your wise ruling. Like I said, please, hon. Minister of Health let us look into the money that was appropriated for Mwense Hospital so that we move on.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile (Malole): Thank you, Madam Chairperson, for according me this chance to debate this Vote. From the outset, I would like to support the budget for the Northern Province. Having said that, I would also like to state to the Members of Parliament from the Northern Province, both on the back bench and those on the Executive bench, that for us to move forward, we need to work as a team. Only when we do that shall we to be a force to reckon with. Divided we shall do nothing.

Madam Chairperson, the Northern Province is the biggest province in this country, with twelve districts. Therefore, what that entails is that the provincial administration has a lot to do. To run the Province is very expensive. Therefore, the provincial administration needs money if they have to work effectively. Added to that, in the Northern Province, Kasama is the furthest point among all the provincial headquarters.

Hon. Members for Northern Province: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: That means, to get to Lusaka is equally very expensive.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to talk about education in the Northern Province. The Northern Province, according to Grade 9 results, had the lowest pass rates.

Hon. Member from Northern Province: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Madam Chairperson, this can be attributed to a number of reasons. One of the reasons that comes to mind is that the Northern Province has less schools. Consequently, we have fewer teachers. Some of the teachers in our schools, in basic schools for that matter, are not qualified to teach Grades 8 and 9. Therefore, hon. Minister, despite the good programme that you have set for this year, please, look into this issue. The Northern Province has over 400 basic schools and about twenty-five high schools. We need more schools if we have to achieve that which the Ministry of Education has set to achieve.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hammer!

Mr Munaile: Madam Chairperson, let me also talk about community schools in the Northern Province.  There are so many community schools. Therefore, I would like to urge the hon. Minister to, please, upgrade most of these basic schools so that our children can have better education.

I would also like to thank the Ministry for the work they are doing at Mulakupikwa, but, please, hasten the work so that we can begin to use this teacher’s training college which we are building.

Hon. Members for Northern Province: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Madam Chairperson, I also want to point out to the hon. Minister ensure that most  of the high schools in the Northern Province are in a deplorable state and must be rehabilitated as a matter of urgency.

Madam Chairperson, allow me to move on to energy. The Northern Province has the capacity to generate its own power, but alas, nothing much is being done about this. We hear about upgrading the Kariba North Bank, Kafue Gorge and so on and so fort, and. yet if money was spent on the Chishimba Falls Power Station and Lunzuwa Power Station, we should be able to generate enough power to give to the other provinces.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Therefore, hon. Minister, please, ensure that this is done. The electrification of Kaputa has taken more than three years.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: What is being done, hon. Minister? The people of Kaputa still depend on power that is generated from generators. As a result of the power outages, Chinsali had no power for eight days. Therefore, some of the pupils from Chinsali Girls’ Secondary School and Kenneth Kaunda Secondary School have been hospitalised because of an out break of dysentery.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: In fact, at the moment, some are still in hospital because of the power outages. Therefore, hon. Minister, help us by ensuring that the power stations that we have are upgraded so that we can reduce the load on the National Grid.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about tourism.

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Sorry, Madam Chairperson, I did not wish to interrupt my brother, who was debating so well. Is he in order to mislead this House and the country and in particular the Northern Province, by saying that at the moment there is no power in Chinsali when in actual fact, two days ago, ZESCO people from Ndola went to install a transformer there and could be working at the moment.
 Is he in order to mislead this House?

Hon. Government Member: He is not aware.

The Chairperson: The point of order raised by the Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development states that in the debate of Hon. Munaile, he has reported to the House that there is still no power in Chinsali, and yet power has been reinstalled. Hon. Munaile may want to make that clarification.

Mr Munaile: Thank you, Madam Chairperson, I wish my brother was listening. I said for eight days there was no electricity in Chinsali. Power was only reinstalled may be the day before yesterday and that has created problems.

Madam Chairperson, the Northern Province has the potential to be the best province in terms of tourism in this country.

Hon. Member for Northern Province: Hear, hear! Bwekeshapo.

Mr Munaile: If we are talking about the Northern Circuit which includes the Luapula Province then,the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources should do more. The Northern Province has some of the best falls. All of you only know about the Victoria Falls. Who knows about the Lumangwe Falls, Kawelume Falls, Chishimba Falls, Kalambo Falls and many others? These can not only benefit the Northern Province, but Zambia as a whole if they were tapped to bring revenue to the country. The Northern Province has national parks such as the North and South Luangwa National Parks, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: … the Nsumbu National Park, Bangweulu National Park, Lufushi Manda National Park, and yet all these are not utilised because who cannot get to these places when the roads are impassable. Who can bring development to a place that is not accessible? We have to do more by ensuring that our infrastructure, especially road infrastructure, is improved.

I have spoken about the falls and national parks, but what about the Moto-moto Museum in Mbala?

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Madam Chairperson, if you go to the Moto-moto Museum today, you will see how good the place is, but the only people who can get there are those from Mbala because others cannot.

What about the Mwamukolo Mission, the Nachikufu Cave in Mpika District …


The Chairperson: Order!

Mr Muntanga: We know these things.

The Chairperson: Order! Hon. Members of the Committee, we really need to go on with work. Remember that you are not the only ones listening. The entire nation is listening to us and what filters through is heard on radio. May I appeal to you to listen. There are moments for one to pass comments, but we should not have running commentaries throughout and seem like we are really not serious with what we are doing. Can we listen to one another because there is a purpose for debate; that is to learn to each other.

Mr Munaile, you may continue, please.

Mr Munaile: Madam Chairperson, I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources to put the Northern Province on his list of priorities by ensuring that it is marketed so that more tourists can get to the Province.

The roads and bridges in the Northern Province leave much to be desired. We have been told that the Chembe Bridge, and I saw it yesterday, is being constructed. However, the Chembe Bridge will only be useful if those that are crossing this bridge from the Copperbelt are able to get to the Northern Province easily. This can only be done by ensuring that the Kasama/Luwingu/Mansa Road is quickly completed. Only when this is done will the Chembe Bridge serve the intended purpose.

What is being done about the road from Kasama/Mporokoso to Kaputa?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: What is also being done about the Kasama/Isoka Road, Mbala/Nakonde to Kanyala  and the Nseluka/Kayambi Road which goes to Chozi up to Nakonde and is the shortest distance to Nakonde from Kasama?

Madam Chairperson, the much talked about Mbesuma Bridge, in this year’s Budget, has been allocated K100 million for feasibility studies.

Mr Simbao: K600 million.

Mr Munaile: Oh, K600 million. Thank you, hon. Minister. This is a bridge which should have been completed by now, but some clever Zambians pocketed the money that was allocated to this bridge, and yet the people travelling to Nakonde from Mporokoso, Kaputa and Luwingu have to go through Mpika and cover a distance of more than 1,000 kilometres when they can only travel for about 200 kilometres using the Kasama route.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: Those are the expenses I am talking about. It is very expensive to do business in the Northern Province. It is imperative that these roads are given the attention they deserve. Travelling from Kasama to Mpulungu is a nightmare, and yet the road is tarred. The road is full of potholes. A two-hour drive takes five hours. How can one do business in such an area? Who can invest in the Northern Province where there are no proper roads and it is costly to set up a business? Even fuel such as diesel costs more than K8000 per litre?

Madam Chairperson, it is because of this that investment will take a long time to come to the Northern Province. When my friend Edgar visited the Northern Province, he came back and told me …

The Chairperson: Order! There is no Edgar here.


Mr Sing’ombe: It is Hon. Sing’ombe.

Mr Munaile: Hon. Sing’ombe, the treasurer of the hon. Independent Members.


Mr Munaile: When he came from the Northern Province, where he had gone on a tour, he said that the land in the Northern Province is wasted because there is no way that commercial farmers can get to the province as it would be costly for them to set up farms in those areas because it is too far. The kinds of roads that we have in the Province have compounded the situation.

I, therefore wish to implore the hon. Ministers of Tourism, Environment, Natural, Agriculture and Co-operative and Works and Supply to ensure that they help the Northern Province by attending to these issues if the province is to be what the people of the Province want it to be. We need more investment and that can only come by ensuring that those who are to invest in rural areas are given attractive conditions. Zambia is not only about Lusaka and the Copperbelt.

Mr Sing’ombe: No!

Mr Munaile: Zambia is the whole country …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munaile: … and if we are talking about reducing urbanisation or rural-urban migration then investment must go to the rural parts of our country. Only then are we going to reduce the impact of overpopulation in our cities that we are experiencing today.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for affording me this opportunity to support the Vote on the Southern Province. I would like to start by stating that the Southern Province has been the site of one of the pilot projects known as the Cash Transfer Scheme which helps the most downtrodden in our society. It has proven to be quite a successful scheme and a large amount of expertise has been built up in the Southern Province because most of the pilot schemes for Zambia were carried out there.

I would like, therefore, to call upon the Government, which seems not to be ready to make this a national scheme, to, at least, make it a provincial scheme for the Southern Province because the expertise is there and the Province is ready to have it expanded to the whole province.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Madam Chairperson, there are certain advantages with having a Cash Transfer Scheme as compared to having food relief given to the people. Some of the advantages are that when food relief does not add any value to the local economy in that area., whereas if cash is given to the people, this will make an impact on the local economy in that the people will be able to buy from each other within the local community, thereby creating a system where money will be circulating.

Mr Muntanga: Yes!

Mr Sikota: I would, therefore, ask the Government to seriously look into that, more especially seeing that the Southern Province has been hit hard by floods this year and in all likelihood, the levels of poverty are going to increase in the Southern Province. Poverty has already been on the increase over the years and there is a need to try to reverse this trend in the Southern Province. It is disheartening to see that generally, there has been a reduction in other interventions such as the Food Security Pack in spite of the fact that we have this crisis.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to now turn to the issue of the handicapped people in the Southern Province and, indeed, the whole country. There is a fund called National Trust Fund which is for the disabled and which has a Vote of about K600 million. This fund is administered centrally from Lusaka. As a result, it becomes very difficult for individual handicapped persons who are out there in the constituencies or districts to have access to it. A few years back, this fund was decentralised and people could access it from the constituencies. Apparently, there was misuse of the monies, as a result, the fund was centralised.

I would like to call upon the Government to look at sealing the loopholes that led to the misuse rather than punishing the handicapped people of the Southern Province who now have to think of some way of getting to Lusaka in order to access that fund. We are in the day and age when we are trying to decentralise as much as possible in order to make the lives of our people easier. There is no reason this fund should not be decentralised.

We have seen the youths’ and women’s funds being centralised, but I think we should move away from that kind of trend to one of decentralisation.

Madam Chairperson, the Southern Province has been hit hard in terms of deforestation.

Mrs Musokotwane: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Very little is being done by the Government in order to fight deforestation in the Southern Province. If we are not having floods, we are having droughts in the Southern Province. All this is as a result of deforestation.

Hon. Southern Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: As a result of this deforestation, we have very poor soils in the Province because the soils are not getting enriched by humus from plants. As a result, there is a lot of soil erosion which makes it difficult for things like water retention and so forth.

I pray that this Government seriously comes up with a deliberate policy of putting up measures that will fight deforestation in the Southern Province to ensure that the levels of charcoal burning for example are brought down.

To this end, the Government should consider offering people in the Southern Province alternative sources of energy so that they do not have to resort to charcoal burning. Indeed, the Southern Province produces the majority of the electricity for this country. There is no doubt about this because it produces enough to meet more than 90 per cent of Zambia’s electricity needs, yet the amount of electricity consumed in the Southern Province is a very small percentage of that.

Madam Chairperson, there is no reason, in order to ensure that there is benefit for the people who produce that electricity, we cannot have some kind of scheme where you have preferential rates of electricity for the people in the Southern Province in the areas where the electricity is generated.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Indeed, this should not only be for the people of the Southern Province, but in all other areas in Zambia where you have electricity generated, the people there should have that benefit. This would have the dual effect of helping us fight the deforestation which is there because people currently have only charcoal burning and weeds as their sources of energy.

Madam Chairperson, Hon. Beene talked about poor communication in the province. Indeed, I echo what he said and call upon the Government to seriously plan linking all districts with roads. Plans should be put in place immediately to have interlinking district roads.

Hon. Southern Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: This will help to foster development in the province. It will also open up areas which previously were not opened up. It will boost agricultural production and even the immense potentials of other sectors such as tourism in the area and so on and so forth.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Apart from this, there are certain very major roads that have been neglected for a long time. There is the Kazungula Bridge which needs to be quickly worked on. It is not only something which would help Zambia, but also the whole region. We do have the Zimba/Livingstone Road which also needs to be quickly worked on.

Hon. UPND Members: Bottom Road.

Mr Muntanga: Do not repeat.

Mr Sikota: The Bottom Road is something which I think has been adequately dealt with and, indeed, should also be looked at.

Madam Chairperson, we have the 2010 World Cup coming up and we have been told before that this is an opportunity for Zambia. It is an opportunity that we are just looking at and letting go by. It is highly unlikely at the pace we are going that by 2010 we shall have finished constructing stadia in Livingstone to take advantage of the World Cup.

It is also very unlikely that at this stage, with the Government not having made any efforts at all to arrange for a pre World Cup Tournament, that even if they have those stadia in place, we will be able to capture major teams to come and have a pre World Cup tournament in Zambia because such events are planned for well in advance. We really have the window left of only about six months. If we do not get things in place within the next six months, we can forget about talking about a bonus from the 2010 World Cup. It is incumbent upon the Government to ensure that they do make sure that the potential …

Mr Muntanga: Namulambe, listen!

Mr Sikota: … from the 2010 World Cup is something that is going to be exploited.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Madam Chairperson, I would like to turn to how the Zambia Economic Empowerment Act can help the Southern Province and its economy.

Hon. Southern Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: There is, under the Act, a provision for certain kinds of industries to be reserved for Zambian participation only and also that certain kinds of industries and trades will need certain levels of Zambia’s minimum participation. The areas where this could be successfully done is, for example, in the tourism industry in certain areas such as guest houses. There is no need for foreigners to be the ones having guest houses because guest houses are pretty easy to be done and are at the lowest level of the market. Therefore, they should be reserved totally and utterly for Zambians alone.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: As you go up the lodges and right up to the hotels, you could have a graduated scheme as to the minimum percentage that should be reserved for Zambian equity participation in such ventures.

Hon. Southern Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: If we did that, you would find that we would be empowering not only the people of the Southern Province, but the people of Zambia as a whole.

Mr Muntanga: Kozo!

Mr Sikota: There are other areas as well such as in the car hire business. We do not need to have foreigners to provide car hire services.


Mr Sikota:  That is an area that should be reserved for the Zambians.

There are other areas as well such as the hunting concessions. We see that most hunting concessions are given to foreigners, and yet the expertise needed for hunting concessions is not that difficult at all. That is another area which should be reserved totally and utterly for Zambians.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Professional hunting licences should also be given just to Zambians to empower them.

Fishing licences and concessions, fishing enterprises all those fishing activities on the Lake Kariba and the Zambezi River should have a minimum level of participation by the Zambians. If we did that we would find that the people of the Southern Province would get a lot of avenues to better their livelihood.

Madam Chairperson, due to inadequate time, I will quickly touch on the question of land audit. The Southern Province has a problem of land and this Government has, for along time, been talking about conducting a complete land audit for the Southern Province. There is no sufficient provision put in the Budget for this and it is something which is urgently needed. Once this is done, there should be a redistribution of land according to what the findings will be. The central Government should facilitate that and not stand in the way of redistribution of land which is done properly after a land audit.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Madam Chairperson, lastly, I would like to call upon the Government to take the responsibility of talking to our co-operating partners who have, for example, promised to do most of the roads in Livingstone, but have now cut back and said that instead of the full total they were going to do, they were only going to do about 10 per cent of what they had promised. I call upon the Government to talk to the Japanese Government to try and implore them that it takes time to get people to the level where we have reached with them and it will take about four or five years to find alternative funders and by that time, our roads will be in a deplorable state.

With those words, Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC. (Chasefu): Madam Chairperson, in debating and supporting the Vote for the Eastern Province, I would like to start by discussing the road infrastructure. Any discussion on road infrastructure in the Eastern Province starts with the gateway which is the Great East Road.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: It has been called the Great East Road for a long time, but I wonder whether we can still call it the same because the truth is that it is the Great Damaged Road and evidence is there for everyone to see. We have appealed to this Government, time and again, to attend to this road, but unfortunately, each time we speak, our pleas have fallen on deaf ears. With the new hon. Minister in the Eastern Province, whom we welcome wholeheartedly, we hope he will give the fight for development a new lease of life. We have been crying for this road for a long time. We will reach a stage when we will stop talking because we shall only talk in 2011. I hope this is a timely warning.


Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Just as it is a nightmare to travel along the Great East Road, it is even more of a night mare to travel on the Chipata/Lundazi Road. This road was tarred during the United National Independence Party (UNIP) Government and since that time, the road has seen no repairs at all. Yes, there have been piecemeal attempts to patch the pot holes, but the potholes are no longer potholes as there is no evidence of tarmac on that road. We have been appealing to this Government, time and again, and all we get are promises. We hope these promises will now turn into fruition.

The other problem with our road network is that the Eastern Province has a tourist attraction in Mfuwe, but the road from Chipata to Mfuwe is terrible. How does this Government expect to attract tourists if they neglect the road infrastructure? We are, again, appealing through our new hon. Minister to give this cry the necessary push. We cannot be crying for ever. There will come a time when we shall stop crying because once you cry indefinitely, you will turn into a weakling and one day you would want to show that you are not a weakling, after all.

Now, the story of road infrastructure does not end with the Chipata/Mfuwe Road. The Road from Chipata to Chadiza, though gravel, this Government cannot organise graders to grade the road.

Mr Muntanga: You see?

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: The same story goes for the Katete/Chadiza Road. It is in dire need of grading, but this Government is giving these routes no attention, notwithstanding the fact that you got a massive vote from the people of the Eastern Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: You see?

Mr C. K. B. Banda, sc.: Do you mean to say that you cannot reward these people with development? Do we have to kneel in order to attract development from this Government? Our appeal in the Eastern Province is that you take us seriously for once, because if you do not, you will see that we can also react.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: It is not only the Chipata/Chadiza Road that needs attention, but also the Lundazi/Chama Road. That road needs attention just as the Chama/Muyombe Road does. We need to be connected to the Northern Province. If we people in the Eastern Province have to go to Mpika, we have to come to Lusaka, and yet if you were a planning Government, you should have attended to that short cut by now.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Please, in return for our votes, we need development too.


Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: There is also a road from Emusa to Chikwa. Chikwa is in Chama South Constituency. This road was given K555 million last year. There is nothing to show for it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Graders were taken to that road and a small patch of the road was graded, but apart from that, nothing has been done to date, and yet we are told that part of the money was used to repair graders belonging to the Zambia National Service.


Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: In Chasefu Constituency were this road begins, we never saw even one grader for the Zambia National Service.

Hon. Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Why use the money to repair graders for the Zambia National Service when they cannot be used to repair the roads?

Dr Chituwo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Chituwo: Madam Chairperson, I am very sorry to raise this point of order, but it is a very serious point one. Is the hon. Member of Parliament who is debating so well in order to state that “in return for my vote” we should do these things, when the hon. Member could not in any way have given us any vote?


The Chairperson: On the point of order which is a concern on the debate of Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc., the Chair would like to guide that Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc. takes that point of order into consideration as he continues.


Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson, for your able guidance. What is the condition of hospitals in the Eastern Province? The condition of hospitals in the Eastern province is deplorable.

Madam Chairperson, I will start with the Lundazi District Hospital. An extension programme to the Lundazi District Hospital started more than twelve years ago and that programme stalled in 2001.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.:  To date, this Government has done nothing to complete those works. I know my vote is secret. I do not have to debate it. However, the point is that people will reward you for the development you take to them. I am saying that it is totally indefensible for a Government to abandon a hospital extension project for more than fifteen years without doing anything and then turn round and call yourselves a caring Government. What caring Government can that be which abandons a hospital project? Any way, it depends, perhaps, on what meaning we attach to caring. However, to me, that is careless governing.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: I would like to talk about Katete District. Katete is one district that has no Government hospital to date, notwithstanding the fact that we have been independent for forty-three years. The Government policy on construction of hospitals is very good.

Mr Syakalima: Imagine!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: It is good in the sense that you want to build hospitals in every district, but what wrong have the people of Katete done for them not to be given a hospital to date. The feeble explanation this Government is giving is that there is St Francis Hospital. That is not a Government hospital.


Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: That is a Government hospital run through the Catholic and Anglicans.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: We are asking our Government to do something for us. Your Government must do something and we have a right to demand it from you.


Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: If we do not demand this from you, who shall we demand it from?


Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Is it from Non Governmental Organisations (NGOs)?

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Sir.


The Chairperson: Continue!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Much obliged, Madam Chairperson.

We are grateful that this Government is doing something for Chadiza District because a hospital is being constructed there.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: However, bear in mind that Katete District gave you land on which to construct the hospital more than fifteen years ago. We are, therefore, challenging you to do something about the construction of a hospital.

Mr Muntanga: Do something!


Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Now, let us proceed a little further and come to the issue of electricity supply. Yes, we will give you credit for having connected Lundazi and Chama districts to the Malawian Electricity Community.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: However, while we enjoy a good relationship with Malawi, the same may not be said next or ten years down the line.

Hon. Opposition Members: Correct!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: We are, therefore, appealing to the Government to start planning so that we can also be connected to the Zambian Electricity Grid and we feel proud to be Zambian.

Mr Syakalima: You are proud of Zambia.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: We need to be part of Zambia because Malawi is not part of us. Now, since you are a planning Government, bear in mind that we expect you to connect us to the Zambian Electricity Grid.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Chasefu Constituency is neither connected to the Malawian Grid nor the Zambian Grid, notwithstanding the fact that we have been independent for forty-three years. I am appealing to the Government to allow the people of Chasefu Constituency to also see the bright lights of the city. You cannot have the whole constituency in darkness and you pride yourselves to be a working Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: How?

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: What have the people of Chasefu Constituency done to you?


Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Manda Hill, this building (Parliament Buildings) is located on Manda Hill. Manda Hills is in, my constituency, Chasefu Constituency.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: I am appealing to this Government to connect Chasefu Constituency to electricity because we need it. We are Zambians and we deserve it.

Madam Chairperson, it is not only that, the agricultural sector is the backbone of development in the Eastern Province. Let us call a spade a spade. During the Kaunda era, agriculture was booming in the Eastern Province. The same cannot be said of agriculture under this Government.

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: I know that you have the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP), but believe you, me or not, that programme has not impacted positively on the people it intended to benefit. My appeal to this Government is that heed good advice from others. If the FSP has not worked, why can you not subsidise directly the price of fertiliser so that these underhand methods by the few people who run co-operatives, most of who are affiliated to certain political parties, do not take advantage of this programme.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: The Eastern Province is capable of producing a lot of food for this country. My appeal to you is that, if you want Zambia to be sufficient in food production, ensure that provinces that are good in agriculture are supported. That is what you are failing to do. Please, ensure that this is done. This can be achieved if the Government learns that it is necessary to supply farming inputs in good time. When you make these farming inputs available, make them available at affordable prices.

Madam Chairperson, Malawi also has a fertiliser support programme. Malawi is poorer than us, but they give fertilisers free, household to household.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C. K. B. Banda, Sc.: Ours is not free. A poor person is made to contribute 50 per cent. I am appealing to you to take a leaf from Malawi, if you are serious about agricultural development.


Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC.: The Eastern Province did not do well in maize production last season. The reason for this was the floods which we had experienced. All the districts in the Eastern Province, without exception, are facing hunger. This Government prides itself as a Government that has improved the agricultural sector. To the contrary, when you go to these areas, you will see that people are hungry. Through the Chairperson, I am appealing to the Government to take relief food to the Eastern Province because what is happening now is that only one 50 kilogramme bag of maize is given per a village. That is not sufficient. It is a mockery. You can do better as a caring Government.

I would also like to comment on the conditions of most of the schools in the Eastern Province that are deplorable. The structures are falling apart. I know that we have very good hon. Ministers in office, but to have a good hon. Minister, is one thing and performance is another. My appeal is that, please, this time around, ensure that you make a difference. Our pupils are learning in deplorable conditions. This is why the examination results in Government schools will never improve. Schools have no desks and if you supply desks, it is only 225 desks to the whole districts. This is evidence that we do not take education seriously. If we continue moving at this pace, we will have few professors. Therefore, my appeal is that this Government should pay special attention to the education sector. The other day I went to Petauke District to visit Kaulu Basic School. This school is in a deplorable condition. The dormitories for boys are made of pole and mud.

The Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member’s time is over.

Mr Mabenga (Mulobezi): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to debate the Budget line for the Western Province which I support in totality.

Madam, while I support the Budget lines for the Western Province, I would like to comment on the following. Firstly, due the heavy rains that besieged the whole of this country, the Western Province has not been spared. Therefore, most parts of the province have been badly affected by these floods, hence the need for relief food for that area.

Specifically, I will talk about a few of these areas by citing Sesheke District, which comprises Sesheke Central, Mwandi and Mulobezi Constituencies.  I will emphasise on Mulobezi Constituency and part of Mwandi Constituency which cannot be reached because the culverts at Limpupu on the Lwanja River have been washed away by the floods. To date, that bridge has not been repaired.

Madam Chairperson, in fact, you may want to know that the water level is rising again, thereby causing more problems for the travelling public from Mulobezi to Sesheke and Livingstone. Our people have to pay double fares. They were paying K35,000 before, but now they have to pay double that amount which is about K75,000 to K85,000. That is quite heavy on the people that do not have enough resources.

Madam Chairperson, this also brings me to the problem of road infrastructure. We are happy the road is being worked on between Mongu and Senanga.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: We are also happy that there are works going on between Katunda, and Lukulu up to Atopa.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Madam, we are also happy that there are works going on on the road from Kaoma to Kasempa. We are equally happy that the road that has been forgotten for a long time, that is the road from Namapombwe through Luampa to Machile, at last, has been awarded enough capital which we hope will be enable the road be upgraded.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Madam, I want to mention here that the road is cardinal to the people of that area because that area has a lot of agricultural potential. The area from Luampa to Kataba, Sichili and Mulobezi also has a lot of agricultural potential. Therefore, as this road is going to be worked on, it is going to help improve and encourage our agricultural cadres to continue engaging themselves in good agricultural practices.

Madam, the road leading to Mangango Constituency from Namapombwe has been worked. We give credit to the contractor who worked on it. That is a wonderful piece of work but, of course, there is a need for a bridge there. I will therefore, cite the bridges to be worked on later.

Madam Chairperson, the bridge at Machile leading to Mulobezi settlement has been damaged completely. Actually my vehicle had to go straight into the garage when I came back from the constituency some two weeks ago. The Road Development Agency (RDA) went to inspect the road, especially at Limpupu and recommended that a total amount of K792 million be spent on that work. Unfortunately, to date, nothing has happened.

Madam, with regard to the planned road from Senanga to Sitoti and Katima Mulilo, we pray that the road is attended to urgently, hon. Minister. You know where it is. We also want the road from Kalongola to Kalabo, the famous Mongu/Kalabo Road and the Kalabo to Sikongo Road to be worked on as well. Once these roads have been worked on, we are very sure that we should be able to make a short cut into Angola very easily through that corridor.

Madam Chairperson, I want to speak about the railway system. I am glad that in the Budget, the Livingstone/Mulobezi Railway Line has been allocated K500 million. That amount may sound very big, but it is not substantial. Therefore, I would like to request the Ministry of Communications and Transport and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to see to it that it has been worked on because most of the time, people vandalise the railway line.

Madam, I discussed this earlier when I was asked whether the people wanted to have that railway line closed.  I said that this could never be because that is like a help line for the people of that area through Kazungula District, Katombola Constituency and partly into Mulobezi Constituency. My prayer is that this money is put to good use so that the railway line can service our people and the number of days spent to travel from Livingstone to Mulobezi is minimised.

Madam Chairperson, I note also with satisfaction that there are plans for the Mulobezi/Namibia Railway Line project. In fact, this is also in the Yellow Book. I would like to implore the Ministry of Communications and Transport to ensure that the railway network is put in place because then the railway line will open up a lot of trade between Zambia and Namibia. So, it is important that this is also done for the betterment of our country.

Madam, let me move on to the issue of mining which the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development has assured us about. With regard to the mining activities in Lukulu, Kalabo and Mongu, I mentioned the other time that there was excitement about this issue, but I would like to mention that the earlier these things begin, the better and that will build a lot of confidence among the people of that province in this very well meaning and hard working Government.

Madam Chairperson, you may want to know that, in fact, in Sesheke District, in some parts of Mwandi and Mulobezi Constituencies, there is red garnet and we believe that this can be the starting point for mineral exploration and possibly mining. Hon. Minister, I do know that you depend on your officers for this kind of information, but I am telling you that I know I have the red garnet in that area and I can give you samples of this mineral. What is left now is …


The Chairperson: Order! This is the not the way the House is supposed to be. As soon as the hon. Member starts talking, you also start talking. Are we interested, indeed, in this debate or we just want to listen to ourselves when it is our time to talk? If that is the case, then you should listen to yourselves. You are setting a precedent that when one is on the Floor, you do not have to listen to them. You wait until you speak and you expect others to listen to you.

Can we, please, keep our House honourable as it should be. There is too much loud consultation.

Hon. Mabenga may continue, please.

Mr Mabenga: Madam Chairperson, I was saying that there is garnet in that part of the province and part of Mulobezi Constituency that can be mined.


Mr Mabenga: Therefore, I was actually encouraging the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development to come on board and see how best we can mine it. In fact, there are other minerals that are found there, especially on the Njoko River, with deposits of paraffin in Mulobezi itself. Therefore, with this Government that means well by putting a lot of emphasis on mining, we would like to take advantage of this positive attitude and see how we also benefit from it.

Hon. Member: Chairman.

Mr Mabenga: Yes, the chairman of the party is speaking because his Government is doing so well.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: You should know that this evening, he is charged, and that is why he is able to speak for a long time.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Madam Chairperson, I am glad because from the budget lines, I notice that there is an allocation for the purchase of a dredging machine for the Western Province to be situated at Mulamba Harbour. This is very good because it will help to deepen our canals in that part of the province. It will also, in fact, make the forthcoming Kuomboka Ceremony even more colourful because the waters will be enough for people like Hon. Muntanga to swallow a few gallons when they come for the ceremony.


Mr Muntanga stood up.


The Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member speaking may not start drawing other hon. Members into the debate because by doing that, he attracts them to raise points of order, and yet I see a lot of business …

Mr Muntanga: He is provoking me.

The Chairperson: …on our Order Paper. Therefore, can we, please, debate directly through the Chair.

The hon. Member may continue, please.

Mr Mabenga: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for your guidance.

Madam Chairperson, I was saying that our canals in a lot of places this year actually need to be dredged because of the heavy rains. Therefore, I hope that the Department of Maritime will have some money to hire people to clear the canals. Otherwise, the crops that our people grow along the dambos and canals will go to waste.

Madam Chairperson, we have heard that Mulobezi has cell phone facilities. However, you will notice that the centre for Mulobezi Constituency, Sichili, which is about thirty-five kilometres away from Mulobezi, does not have these facilities.

Mr Sichilima: Msichili.

Mr Mabenga: Sichili, please, and not Msichili.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to request the Ministry of Communications and Transport to put up either a booster or, indeed, the facility that will give us cell phone coverage at Sichili because then, it will be able to cover almost the whole constituency.

Hon. MMD Member: No problem.

Mr Mabenga: That is my prayer.

Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, I would like to indicate that as far as food is concerned, I hope that the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit will be able to approve the involvement of the Programme for Urban Self Help (PUSH) to help in the distribution of relief food because we have lost trust in the Red Cross Society, which failed to do the job in that part of this country.

With these few words, Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Vote for the provinces.

Madam Chairperson, before, I zero in on Luapula, I would like to speak for all the provinces, especially those that are far away from the centre. I am talking about the Luapula, Northern, Eastern, Southern, Western, North-Western, some parts of the Central and even bits of the Copperbelt Province.

Madam Chairperson, I am talking about Government’s policy with regard to transportation and fuel in particular. I have belaboured this point before.

Madam, it is extremely difficult to do business in this country if you are located in those provinces because fuel is extremely expensive. The people in the rural areas suffer and spend so much money to travel or do business, and yet it has been established that if we increased fuel prices on the Copperbelt and Lusaka by even 20 ngwee or 40 ngwee, we should be able to equalise the cost of the price of fuel throughout the country. Why is this Government so reluctant to act on that so that the people who are out there do not suffer and therefore, since they want to enjoy the benefits and facilities that are in the urban areas, they do not have to move and crowd Lusaka and the Copperbelt, thereby making it difficult for the local administration to deal with the influx of people.

For example, if we increase fuel by K40 in Lusaka and in Mpulungu we increase maybe, by K1,500, does that really make sense when we know that there is more poverty in the rural areas than in the urban areas. Why are we being so intransigent? Does it have to take his Excellency President Mwanawasa to come and issue a statement before the hon. Minister can act? Zambia is not just Lusaka and where Indeni is. We must take this issue very seriously.

In fact, our resources are skewed to the centres and this is what is causing the problems for the ministries such as Local Government and Housing and Home Affairs. The high crime rate in the urban areas is a result of the development policy that centralises everything. There are no facilities, amenities and jobs because more money is going to the centre. If you look at this budget which we are debating, K238 billion out of K13 trillion is the money that has been allocated to the provinces.

 Mr Muntanga: Repeat that!

Dr Machungwa: Madam Chairperson, the provinces are getting K238 billion, and yet the further away they are from the centre, the more difficult it is to get any resources or facilities. Why is it that if you are in Kasama and you want to go to Chipata, you have to travel all the way to Lusaka via Mpika and Serenje. Why can we not have a road from somewhere in Kasama to Chipata? Why can we not have a road that makes it possible to travel from the Eastern Province directly to the Southern Province?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Emphasise that!

Dr Machungwa: These are things that we can do.

Madam Chairperson, there is this issue of the bridge at Chembe. That is very welcome because it will make it easier for people from the Copperbelt to travel to Luapula and proceed to the Northern Province.   I would like to echo the debate of my colleague who said that the infrastructure will become a white elephant if the Pedicle Road is not attended to.

I hope we remember the commitments President Mwanawasa made in this House many years ago, and also in Luapula regarding the Pedicle Road. That is the next urgent project. If the Pedicle Road is worked on, it will make it easier for people to travel from the Copperbelt to Luapula and the Northern Province. The road that goes all the way to Lundazi and Chama should also be worked on.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa: In this regard, infrastructure at Chembe ….

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Dr Machungwa: If you do that …

The Chairperson: Order!

Dr Machungwa: Madam Chairperson, what I am also saying is that if this bridge is constructed, we need infrastructure to support it. This is because what is going to happen is that, the traffic between the Copperbelt, Luapula and the Northern Provinces is going to increase. You need to build better facilities at Mokambo and Chembe to process the increasing number of passengers passing through the two points. We have to build more facilities for the Immigration Department, the Police and the Zambia Revenue Authority.

These are issues that must be considered. My colleagues have already talked about Tuta Road. I do not want to belabour that. However, it is extremely important that you do not let that road which constructed by the Chinese sometime back go to waste because it will be impossible to mend it. At the moment, it is becoming unsafe to drive on this road and if nothing is done to correct the situation, we shall have a lot of problems. The Mansa/Luwingu is also an important road.

Madam Chairperson, let me come to the issue of feeder roads and township roads. The Ministry of Works and Supply has said that feeder roads and township roads are now going to be the responsibility of the local authorities since they have been appointed agents of the Government through the Road Development Agency. In 2007, funds that were allocated for these roads were not released. We hope that this time, Sir, with the programme and the work schedule that you have given us, even my township roads on the islands in the Bangweulu Swamps will be worked on. People need to travel even within the island itself. They need walk or ride a bicycle. Therefore, the roads on the island should be worked on.

Hon. Member interjected.

Dr Machungwa: You shut up.


Dr Machungwa: The canals are extremely important. Hon. Mabenga talked about dredging of the canals. This is extremely important.

Mr Mukanga: Yes.

Dr Machungwa: The allocation in the Budget of about K500 million is nothing compared to the work that is supposed to be done. Probably the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Magande has never been on a canoe that is why he allocates little money for canals. It is extremely important that …

The Chairperson: Order!

Dr Machungwa: … the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and the Government allocates adequate resources to the people who travel on water.

Madam Chairperson, let me come to the development of infrastructure, especially in the area of tourism. For many years now, we have given a lot of incentives to tourism operations in Livingstone especially. There are tax incentive and so on and so forth that have been effective for sometime. Why is it that we cannot extend this to other provinces? Why should we just concentrate on Livingstone? In Luapula, we have tremendous potential around Lakes Bangweulu and Mweru and there are various areas of interest. I believe that if the Government was serious about spreading these benefits, they should now begin to extend them to the rural areas and other areas in the Northern, Luapula, North-Western, Eastern Provinces and other areas. We cannot have a situation where everything is concentrated in one area. This is what causes imbalances and problems. No province should be ignored. We want the infrastructure that we have to benefit all the people so that Zambia, as a unified State, experiences some meaningful development for all its people.

Madam Chairperson, let me come to the issue of electronic communication.

The Chairperson: Order!     

(Debate adjourned)


[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

(Progress reported)

The House adjourned at 1955 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 19th March, 2008.