DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Thursday, 20th March, 2008

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

________

ANNOUNCEMENT

DEATH OF DR CHOSANI NJOBVU, MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT FOR MILANZI

Mr Speaker: Hon, Members, I wish to acquaint the House with a fact which is already sadly known that the House has lost one of its hon. Members, namely; Dr Chosani Alick Njobvu, hon. Member of Parliament for Milanzi Parliamentary Constituency. The late Dr Njobvu was found dead in the morning on Wednesday, 19th March, 2008 in his hotel room in Ljubljana, Slovenia, where he had gone to attend meetings of the ACP/EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly.

Necessary arrangements are currently being made to bring the body of the late Dr Njobvu back home for burial. I wish to further inform the House that His Honour the Vice-President will, at an appropriate time, move a Motion to enable the House place on record its condolences on the death of Hon. Dr Chosani Alick Njobvu, Member of Parliament for Milanzi Parliamentary Constituency.

The condolences of the House will be conveyed to the bereaved family accordingly.
May I now request all hon. Members to stand in their places and observe a minute of silence in honour of the memory of the late hon. Member of Parliament.

Members of Parliament stood in silence for one minute.

I thank you.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PROCUREMENT OF CAMERAS

212. Ms Kapata (Mandevu) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services when more cameras would be procured for journalists in the public media to cover more events, especially in Lusaka.

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting (Mr B. D. Banda): Mr Speaker, the procurement of field television cameras used to cover events is an ongoing exercise. Last year alone, the Ministry bought fifty-three video cameras and forty digital still cameras for distribution to Zambia News and Information Services (ZANIS) district offices. This is in addition to the eight video and eight digital still cameras that the department has at the Headquarters, and the nine field television cameras that the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) has for coverage of events in Lusaka.

Sir, I also wish to mention that there is an understanding between ZANIS and ZNBC to split the coverage of events in order to ensure that as many events as possible can be covered. This understanding has worked well and is evident from the number of items in the news covered by ZANIS.

Sir, the public media is committed to improving the coverage of events not only in Lusaka, but also in the entire nation and will continue to invest in the acquisition of production facilities such as cameras and other equipment to ensure that we have a well informed society.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Ms Kapata: Mr Speaker, why is it difficult for the Government-controlled media to cover the people on your left side of the House, the Opposition, when they have events? Most of time when journalists from the Government-controlled media are called, they give excuses that they are covering the Executive. Why is this so?

Mr B. D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, I beg to disagree with the claim that the hon. Member is making. The Government Ministers also face this problem. It is important to give some reasonable notice to either ZNBC or ZANIS for an event to be covered. However, most of the time, Members from the Opposition or hon. Ministers approach ZANIS or ZNBC a few hours before a function, and by that time, their schedule is already full. In future, I hope that the Opposition or Government Ministers will give ample notice to either ZANIS or ZNBC, if they would like their events to be covered.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, the job of a journalist is to seek information and not to be given information. Is he suggesting that we, the Members of the Opposition, should look for journalists and give them information?

Mrs Musokotwane: When they are supposed to find us.

Mr D. B. Phiri: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member who posed this question was referring to specific events as opposed to journalists going round looking for this information. Her complaint is that sometimes, events are not covered, and not that information is not looked for. The question is different from that of the hon. Member of Monze.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister, if the Government has immediate plans to take television transmitters to rural areas such as Chadiza and Shang’ombo.

Mr D. B. Phiri: Mr Speaker, yes, I can confirm that the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services has plans to extend the television facility to districts that currently do not receive the signal. In fact, the Ministry through a grant given to ZNBC, has procured four transmitters and at the moment, our men are in the field. Therefore, I would like to take this opportunity to state the areas which are going to benefit from these four transmitters that we have just procured and these are: Mwandi, Senga Hill and Chavuma.

Mr Speaker, we have also decided to upgrade the television signal in Kabompo because the radio coverage in this area is small. The television transmission will be replaced with 100 watts from 20 watts. This means that we will now be able to capture a much wider area in Kabompo. The transmitter which is being replaced in Kabompo will be taken to another district which is currently not receiving the signal.

I can also confirm that we have paid for five transmitters which have not arrived in the country yet. They should be arriving pretty soon from France and I can confirm that these five transmitters are meant for Chadiza, Kazungula, Mbereshi, Sinda and Mwinilunga. The Ministry is committed to ensuring that the television signal is taken to every part of the country. We hope to conclude this exercise by the end of the year.

Hon. Government Members:  Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, if the Government media has so many cameras and if it is so unbiased with respect to the Opposition, why do all the photographs of me which are published in the Times of Zambia and Zambia Daily Mail make me look about 35 years old and are the same every time? I see some hon. Ministers and hon. Members here are scarcely out of their teens if they are to be judged by their photographs. I have had proposals of marriage which have been withdrawn when they meet me in the flesh. Can he, please, answer that question?

Laughter

The Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, …

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, I know we can never win. He should be thanking us for doing him a favour instead of complaining. However, if you have latest photographs that make you look a little more emaciated, please, deliver them to the studios.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair does not believe the hon. Member for Lusaka Central was complaining of being bloated or emaciated, but the usage of old pictures which make him look 35 years young when he is not. That was the guidance.

The hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi. No, Namwala.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Thank you, Mr Speaker, we look alike with the hon. Member for Itezhi-Tezhi. T

Taking advantage of this broad question and broad answer that has been given by the hon. Deputy Minister, do all these arrangements include Namwala, given that last time I asked that all the infrastructure and communication associated with broadcasting and, indeed, the radio signal in Namwala are almost non-existent? Do these arrangements include Namwala such that the people of Namwala this year are also going to feel like they are part of this country?

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, it is an on going exercise. We believe that Namwala is part of Zambia. In the distribution of equipment, we are trying to cover as much of the country as possible so that we do not seem to concentrate on one area. As soon as we have sufficient equipment, we will definitely consider Namwala not as a favour, but as part of our mandate to serve the people of Namwala as well.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when the Ministry will send an information officer to Chama District.

Mr Speaker: The question may be off the mark, but maybe the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services can give the answer.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, the Ministry has been undergoing a restructuring programme and all those areas where we have no staff will be considered to ensure that staff are thereto allocated.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the fifty-three video cameras that the hon. Deputy Minister alluded to were meant for ZANIS to cover events in rural areas and go back to their district Bomas to transmit the images to ZNBC via the Internet. However, these cameras are not being used for that purpose because wrong cameras were bought and have missing pieces such as fire wires. Why were these wrong cameras bought and what action is being taken against those who bought the wrong cameras?

Mr D. B. Phiri: Mr Speaker, let me take this opportunity to state that, indeed, the video cameras were bought and have since been distributed to a number of districts. The hon. Member of Parliament is right. We would like to see a situation where we do not carry cameras from the centre. We want you, leaders, to go to your districts and find the cameras and the cameras are there. We would like to capture images of the activities there and, indeed, transmit them to the centre through the Internet.

Mr Speaker, yes, that problem has been identified, but I would like to state here and confirm that we have since bought forty mobile Internet units from Coppernet. Very soon, we shall start transmitting images therefrom without a problem. Yes, the issue you have talked about is, indeed, an administrative matter and the Ministry is looking into it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Speaker, in line with the extension of coverage by journalists, would the hon. Minister tell us when the Ndola Radio Station and Television Studio is likely to be launched by a private firm?

Mr B. D. Phiri: Mr Speaker, I have personally toured the television station in Ndola. At the moment, the station is conducting a test transmission. The owner of the television station has a few issues that he needs to resolve before he can start transmitting. However, I can confirm to you that the Ndola television station is at a very advanced stage evidenced by the fact that it is able to carry out a test transmission.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, through you, can I find out from the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services why it is that even when the public media are informed or invited in time to cover a function of the Opposition or a private one, firstly, they will come late and secondly, they cover the function for just five to ten minutes because they will be rushing to cover a Government or State function.

Mr Mulongoti: Mr Speaker, with regard to the hon. Member’s statement that sometimes the public media are late and sometimes cover the Opposition’s functions, but only for a short time, I would like to say that this depends on what makes news. If the event is not newsworthy, surely they will exercise their discretion to cover what makes news. So it is not that the Opposition is being discriminated against.

I have challenged hon. Members before that if they have specific problems that they would want us to attend to, our offices are open to them and they should come and let us know so that we can take collective action. They do not have to wait until there is a question on the Order Paper to discuss these matters. We are available to them and that is why we are in those offices.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

213. Major Chibamba (Shiwang’andu) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when work on the proposed bridge over the Luangwa River along the Matumbo/Chama Road would commence.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): Mr Speaker, the construction of the bridge across the Luangwa River at Matumbo on the Chama/Matumbo Road was awarded in November, 2007 to Messrs China Henan International Corporation Group Company in a joint venture with Messrs Brian Colquhoun, Hugh O’Donnell and Partners (BCHOD) at a contract sum of K10,141,676,596.88.

The consulting engineers in this joint venture, Messrs BCHOD, has started to carry out site surveys and preliminary engineering designs. It is intended that civil works may begin in May, 2008. The contractor will start mobilising equipment to start work in April, 2008.

In the 2008 Annual Work Plan, there is a provision of another K7 billion for the construction of the same bridge.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out the type of bridge that will be constructed. The Nkalamabwe Bailey Bridge was built there, but as far as I know, it cannot be used.

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, I do not have an answer to that question. Initially, what was considered was to use the Bailey bridge which was removed from the Nkalamabwe Bridge, but that proved to be too small. Therefore, there were other ideas to do a combination of designs, but I am not sure what has been agreed upon finally.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Works and Supply what timeframe he has for building bridges on the major rivers in the country, particularly where there are pontoons.

Mr Speaker: The question on the Order Paper does not offer flexibility to go into other matters. It is specifically on that spot in Chama. Therefore, for the sake of neatness, the House will move on.

Mr V. Mwale: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm whether the K7 billion which is allocated to the construction of this bridge in this year’s Budget is enough to complete the project or there is still some more money needed?

Mr Simbao: Mr Speaker, it is not possible for me to confirm that. What I know is that the works will start in April and there is money available for this work to start. If the bridge is not completed, more money will be allocated next year.

I thank you, Sir.

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BILL

FIRST READING

THE INDUSTRIAL AND LABOUR RELATIONS (Amendment) BILL, 2008

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Mukuma): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled the Industrial and Labour Relations (Amendment) Bill, 2008. The object of this Bill is to amend the Industrial and Labour Relations Act so as to revise the law relating to industrial and labour relations and provide for matters concerned with or incidental to the foregoing.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Economic Affairs and Labour. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House when they complete their deliberations. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

I thank you.

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MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 20 and 21(1), if necessary, and Standing Order 101 be suspended to enable the House to complete all business on the Order Paper and all matters arising therefrom and that, on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.

Mr Speaker, this is a procedural Motion which is non-controversial. It is designed to enable the House conclude its business today. Sir, hon. Members will recall that on Friday last week, His Honour the Vice-President indicated to the House that all things being equal, it might be necessary to move this Motion today so that the House could go on recess

Sir, during the current sitting of the House which began on Friday, 11th January, 2008, the House has sat for a total of forty (40) days. During this period, the House extensively debated the Motion of Thanks to His Excellency the President’s Address to the House and examined various Government policy issues contained in the President’s Speech. The House also debated the Motion of Supply on this year’s Budget and considered the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the year 2008.

Mr Speaker, a total of 214 Questions for Oral Answer were placed on the Order Paper and adequately answered by the Executive. The House also considered seven Sessional and Select Committee Reports. In addition, ten Ministerial Statements were made and discussed in the House while twenty-one Annual Reports from Government and Quasi-Government institutions were received and laid on the Table of the House.

The House also considered six Government Bills and one Private Member’s Motion designed to enhance the Social Economic Welfare of the country.

Mr Speaker, from the business which was before the House, it is evident that hon. Members disposed of a heavy workload in only forty days. Once again, this achievement by the House is a clear demonstration of the seriousness with which hon. Members take the deliberations of the House. Team work and commitment to national duty by hon. Members have enabled the House make many important decisions which will accelerate development in the country and uplift the living standards of the people of Zambia. Let me, therefore, take this opportunity to thank the hon. Members of this august House for the job well done.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, the House has accomplished its programme of work and fulfilled the purpose for which it was summoned by His Excellency the President. It is, therefore, appropriate for the House to go on recess so that all hon. Members may attend to other equally challenging assignments outside this Chamber.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, during the current rainy season, the country has experienced some of the worst floods in the living memory which have destroyed homes, crops and our road infrastructure. The extent of the devastation caused by the floods is yet to be determined. It is, therefore, necessary for the House to rise today to enable both the Government and hon. Members of this august House to assess the impact of the floods which left a trail of destruction. This means that most parts of the country are likely to face serious food shortages.

In this regard, allow me to appeal to all hon. Members to go to their constituencies and undertake an assessment of the actual situation on the ground and pass on the information to the Office of His Honour the Vice-President, Disaster Management and Mitigation Department so that the Government could come up with a comprehensive plan on how to deal with this eminent challenge. At this point, may I take this opportunity to thank all the organisations and, indeed, individuals who have come forward to make donations in cash, food, medicines, tents and other materials which have so far helped to alleviate the immediate effects of the floods. I wish to appeal for more help particularly, after we have undertaken a complete assessment of the actual needs countrywide.

Mr Speaker, in the same vein, allow me to take this opportunity to appeal to hon. Members for areas where the harvest will be good to implore the people to harvest their produce in good time so that nothing is allowed to go to waste.

Mr Speaker, allow me to refer briefly to the National Constitution Conference (NCC). I appeal to all hon. Members who are attending the NCC to start preparing themselves adequately so that they are able to handle the complex issues that will come before them. This is, indeed, a very important and historic national assignment that should be taken seriously.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: I, therefore, call upon the hon. Members and other stakeholders out there who have chosen not to participate in the NCC to, please, reconsider their position.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: The door is still open and we shall be very happy to welcome them.

Mrs Masebo: No, close it. They are wasting our time.

Mr Mpombo: The nation will no doubt benefit from their input.

Mr Speaker, one of the most important decisions that this Government has made this year is the introduction of a flexible tax structure for the mining sector, popularly known as Windfall Tax. I wish to note that this is one aspect where, as a nation, we all agreed and showed unity of purpose. I am further pleased to say that this decision has also been hailed and supported by the co-operating partners and the civil society. As a Government, we are determined to carry this matter to its logical conclusion for the benefits of the people of Zambia.

Mr Speaker, there are a number of other pertinent issues that were raised on the Floor of the House such as the eradication of cattle diseases and the fish restocking exercise countrywide. As a listening Government, I would like to assure the hon. Members that their concerns will be attended to.

Mr Speaker, may I now take this opportunity to pay tribute to you, the hon. Madam Deputy Speaker, and the hon. Deputy Chairperson of the Committees of the Whole House for the efficient and non-partisan manner in which you guided the proceedings of this House during this meeting.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, I wish you God’s abundant blessings as you continue to preside over the deliberations of this august House for and on behalf of the people of Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, let me also express my profound gratitude to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the efficient services they rendered which enabled this House to operate smoothly.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: In the same vein, I wish to acknowledge the important work done by officers in the Office of the Vice-President as well as other Government ministries and departments who collectively contributed to the success of the first meeting of the Second Session of the Tenth National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Before I call for any further debate, let me remind the House that this Motion, indeed, as the mover has said, is procedural. It does not require reviving cross country debate that you have already done in the last forty days. All the House need to do is to have a few hon. Members speak to the motion hopefully, so that the House may resolve this motion and move on to the enormous amount of work on the Order Paper and I mean that. What you see labeled on the Order Paper is actually misleading. As you will discover, there is a lot of work required. Of course, we hope we will suspend the orders to debate those matters as you wish, but at the end of it, you have to go home and attend to the issues that have been referred in the motion by the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business.

Therefore, I shall be attentive to any attempt by any hon. Member who may try to re-open cross country debate.

I thank you.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I shall confine myself strictly to issues raised by the hon. Minister of Defence who is standing in for the Vice-President, except perhaps, to repeat something which we, from this side (left) of the House, said in the last sitting. We said that we would like to see more of our real Vice-President. We love our hon. Minister of Defence, but it can get confusing when speeches written for the real Vice-President, who, in the old system, was referred to as Prime Minister, are read by somebody else. I think the question is …

Interruptions

Dr Scott: Excuse me, Mr Speaker. Regarding the duties of hon. Members of Parliament in ensuring that the crop is brought in, I would like to advise that this year, there are considerable risks of smuggling of food from this country to outside because our neighbours are also in bad shape and given the cost structure in this part of the world, smuggling is a very real danger. It is not just a matter of harvesting the crop and expecting that it will sit and wait for the Government to produce money for its storage or distribution, but it will require some activity on the part of the hon. Members of Parliament and the Government to ensure that the crop remains in the country. It is important that we know how much there is. It is also becoming increasingly obvious that we need to know the condition of the stocks. Just this morning, we got news from Chibombo Co-operative Unions Store in Chisamba to the effect that the maize is all rotten and unusable. I have alluded to this in this matter House before, that what is on paper under the auspices of the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) is not necessarily what we have in stock.

Regarding Lusaka, I would like to ask the Office of the Vice-President Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit where the rest of the money that was allocated for flood mitigation works in Lusaka City is. There was K16 billion thereto allocated. As far as I know, we have received less than half of that.

Mrs J. C. M Phiri: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, we still have a lot of drainage clearing and rehabilitation of buildings, structures and roads to be done, which are all part of mitigation of the same flood disaster.

Mr Speaker, I thank His Honour the Vice-President for inviting those of us who are not participating in the National Constitution Conference (NCC) to come. I respectfully decline his invitation.

Laughter

Dr Scott: The Patriotic Front (PF) is not attending the NCC …

Mrs J. C. M. Phiri:  Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: … for reasons that are too well known to be repeated here.

Mrs J. C. M. Phiri:  Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: Some individuals may attend in their own capacity or in their capacity as representatives of their pockets, but are not representing the PF. Do not delude yourselves. Just as former Catholics are not necessarily representing the Catholic Church which is based in the Vatican.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I thank you.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo stood up.

Mr Sichamba: Ebaume, aba.

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, I rise to support the Motion and also acknowledge the kind words that have been used by the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House that this House has performed exceptionally well. However, I would like to advise the Government to emulate the exceptional performance of this House in the way they conduct their business. That is the only way that the Government will raise the standard of living of our people.

As the Leader of Government Business in this House has ably articulated, in other words, we expect, as parliamentarians, to see that funds that are appropriated by this House are expended as expeditiously as possible. There is no way, Mr Speaker, we can raise the standard of living of the people when the Government fails to spend funds which are appropriated by this House.

Mr Speaker, we had this sad experience where K900 billion was sent back to the Treasury. That was a very sad experience and we do not expect the Government to repeat that mistake. We were informed that the cumbersome tender procedures were the cause of the bottlenecks. If that was the case, then, we would have expected the Government to bring a Bill to this House to effect amendments, but alas, we are adjourning today and nothing has been done to that effect. In other words, that was just a scapegoat. We are going to continue to hold the Government responsible for their failure to utilise the funds which are always appropriated by this House.

Mr Speaker, in fact, in other countries, that is a financial scandal where heads would have rolled. However, in this country, we have a President who is too generous. I thank him for being so generous that he can keep liabilities in his Government.

Mr Speaker, in other countries, once funds are appropriated by Parliament and the Government fails to utilise them, heads would roll instantly. However, we are lucky in Zambia. I would like to thank the President for keeping liabilities in his Government. We are hoping that such things will be history. We do not want to see such a situation. 
Mr Speaker, we suspend all our activities to come here and assist the Government to spend the money as appropriated by the Government. It is not our desire to be here, but it is a commitment born out of our duty. When we do that, we expect the Government to release the funds in good time and make sure that they spend every ngwee that we appropriate in this House.

Mr Speaker, finally, in the same vein, I would like to appeal to those who are responsible for disbursing the funds to ensure that immediately the President appends his signature to the Bill that we are going to discharge this evening, those resources should be released together with the K900 billion which is locked up. That is our desire. That is the only way you can raise the standard of living of the people, otherwise it is a mockery of the whole process of appropriating funds when you come back to report that you did not spend it. What are you going to achieve by so doing?

Mr Speaker, my desire is not to see a situation where, for example, hon. Ministers write letters to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning asking for the release of funds which have been approved in the House. We do not even want to see a situation where controlling officers will be travelling long distances to l knock on the doors of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to look for money which is appropriated in this House. That must be a thing of the past. Marching orders must be given to those who are fast asleep.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I will be very brief. I would like to support the Motion moved by the Vice-President. However, in supporting this Motion, I would like to state one very cardinal and fundamental matter of governance of our country. The year 2008 has seen floods unlike any other. As a result of the floods, hon. Members on Mr Speaker’s right, we have a crop failure ranging between 50 to 70 per cent. In Namwala, the crop failure which has been recorded as the highest is 70 per cent. What that means is that seven out of every ten peasant farmers have no food from March this year, up to April, 2009. It is, therefore, incumbent upon this Government to support districts that are net exporters of maize and beef this year. In spite of the drought which has affected a good percentage of the country, the Budget allocation for the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) has been reduced this year. In a year we should have pumped a lot of money into the FRA to buy maize from the rural areas because that is where the people who voted for this Government are, we have reduced the allocation. They are now going to provide something like 120 instead of 720 buying centres. Therefore, in each constituency and district, there will only be two buying centres for maize. Look at the geographical dimension of the constituencies. This year, there will only be two depots available for the purchase of maize because of the reduction in the funds allocated to the agriculture sector. There has been a great anomaly in a year of a maximum hunger situation owing to the floods.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Members on your right, I notice, from the front row to the middle row to the last row and from the left to the right, are all affected by this quagmire associated with crop marketing. It is, therefore, incumbent upon the hon. Members on your right who have been vested with the responsibility of crop marketing to review the FRA funding. I support the suggestions associated with the supplementary budget. This is going to be the biggest problem that Zambians will face. As we go back, we should know that the farmers, the people who cannot afford a pair of shoes or pata patas or whose livelihoods depend on what they put in their grain bin, will determine whether or not they are going to survive this year. I, therefore, suggest that as you go back home, you should think kindly about this matter.

Sir, finally, I would like to deal with the National Constitution Conference (NCC) issue. It is an honour and privilege for me to be a member of Zambia’s first NCC.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Those who want to remain in the doldrums with their arms akimbo, let them do so.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: This is our country and we are going to the Mulungushi International Conference Centre in April to produce Zambia’s best Constitution.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: It is our right. The NCC arose from this House and we shall abide by the rules and the regulations that we set up. We wanted a constitution in 1964, and our forefathers had to travel to Lancaster House in England and met the Queen for Zambia to have a constitution of its own.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: We have never had a chance like this one in the last forty-four years of the independence of this country. In Ila we say, “Usunkuta talindwa.”

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: Tell them!

Major Chizhyuka: Forget about the fellows who do not want to join the NCC!

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: Stop pleading with them! What are they? They do not want. The chances have been given to them to ...

Mr Hachipuka: Who are they?

Major Chizhyuka: …participate in this historic occasion of our country …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: … and they want to drag on. Who do they think they are?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: The more you plead with them to participate in NCC, the more you make them think they are big. They are nothing!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Major Chizhyuka: That is why I always say that let us always look at matters associated with indigenous people. There was a debate in this House in which it was stated very clearly that Hitler was not an indigenous German.

Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: There were issues associated with Mussolini.

Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: You will find that you will be detracted by people who need not, in any case, participate in the NCC.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Therefore, let us proceed. We are in a democracy and democracy is a game of numbers.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: We have the numbers. Let us go ahead Zambia and meet at the Mulungushi International Conference Centre and produce a constitution of all time for Zambia.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute on this …

Mr Munkombwe: Do not dilute the debate!

Laughter

Mr Milupi: Hon. Munkombwe is excited.

Laughter

Mr Milupi: However, I rise to support the Motion on the Floor of this House and in doing so, let us remind ourselves about the roles of hon. Members of Parliament. In my view, there are three roles that Members of Parliament or the Legislature plays. Firstly, it is the role of enacting laws for this country. We do it in this House and the country facilitates us, as hon. Members of Parliament, to ensure that this role is played to the fullest.

Secondly, we play an oversight role on the Executive and we do this as Members of Parliament in our various Committees when we hold meetings and, indeed, hold the Executive accountable. In doing that, this country facilitates our work as an oversight body. Thirdly, it is the role of representation. This is what we are going to do, at the end of Business of the House today, when the House rises. It is an important role because that is the link between the ordinary citizens of this country and the governors of their country. We, as hon. Members of Parliament, provide that link. Eves as it is important, alas, we fall short, as a country, because we have no mechanism to formally facilitate the Members of Parliament to carryout this work in terms of resources and time.

Hon. Members will appreciate that, even as we rise today, there are two weeks before we can go to the NCC. Already many of us will fail to go to our constituencies because of Committee work. How I wish this country could also facilitate this work of representation. However, even as we go to our constituencies, the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House has already stipulated a number of challenges on which we have to be involved. Specific to my area, he has referred to cattle diseases and fish restocking. Let me remind the hon. Members on your right that I agree with them when they say that they are a listening Government. Yes, that is a listening Government. However, listening is, but a first step. Where they fall flat on their faces is not on listening, but on carrying out actions on the basis of that which they have paid attention to.

Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, on the Floor of this House, many people like me mean well. I have given advice on a number of issues and items that need to be carried out in order for the country to develop. Alas, even though they are listening, they are probably listening with deaf ears because we do not see sufficient and good will action follow all this good advice. As we go now, I would like ask the listening Government, …

Mr Sing’ombe: Only CDF!

Mr Milupi: Sir, we thank Hon. Masebo for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). She listens and she takes action. That is very good.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, even as we go on recess, it should be mentioned that the issues that we raise here, we do not raise them for our own sake, but for the sake of this country. Cattle diseases are important economic indicators that need to be sorted out. Fish depletion is an important issue to our communities. Therefore, my advice is that even as you congratulate us, Leader of Government Business in the House, on the good work that we have done, please, leave it not just at congratulating us, but follow through on the advice that we have provided.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, I thank you for this time and I will be very brief.

Sir, Dr Scott is not in the House, but whatever he said amounted to personal whims in the sense that we have a huge number of hon. Members of Parliament from Patriotic Front attending the NCC. Therefore, I would like to commend hon. Members of Parliament for giving a very strong rebuff to politics of senile dementia.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Acting Leader of Government Business will withdraw the phrase “senile dementia”.

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, I am most obliged, I complete withdraw the phrase.

Sir, the National Constitution Conference provides the only rational discourse. People can come and discuss pertinent issues. Therefore, those who have decided to stay away, I think they are doing that at their own political peril because they will soon be irrelevant to the political system.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Hon. Kasongo talked about expeditious disbursement of funds and also usage of funds. We have taken very serious note of that and we feel you raised a good point. We also, want to thank you for your usual support.

Mr Speaker, Hon. Major Chizhyuka talked about the Food Reserve Agency and we thank him very much. Those are very important observations and, as a Government, we want to take into account what you have said. You also raised some valid point when you said the Government must not listen to political cacophony of noise.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair, once again, reluctantly guides the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House to avoid using words like that. May he withdraw the phrase “cacophony of noise.”

Laughter

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, I am most obliged. I completely withdraw the phrase. What Hon. Major Chizhyuka spoke about represents a very strong “audacity” of hope…

Laughter

Mr Mpombo:… and I think everybody should take a leaf from what he has said. It is very important.

Mr Speaker, I would like to conclude by saying that political parties that shun important national issues will soon be confined to a situation called political Armageddon.

Laughter

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Laughter

Question put and agreed to.

_____{mospagebreak}

BILLS

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

THE MINES AND MINERALS DEVELOPMENT BILL, 2008

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on page 9, after line 19

(a) by the insertion immediately after the definition “base metal” of the following new definition; “bird sanctuary” means an area declared as such under section one hundred and forty-four of the Zambia Wildlife Act, 1998;
(b) on page 10, after line 16

(i) by the insertion immediately after the definition of “Director” of the following new definitions:

“Director of Geological Survey” means the person appointed as such under subsection (3) of section one hundred and forty-four;

“Director of Mines Safety” means the person appointed as such under subsection (2) of section one hundred and forty-four:

(ii) after line 23 by the insertion immediately after the definition of “Environmental Council of Zambia” of the following new definitions:

“environmental impact study” has the meaning assigned to it in the Environmental Protection and Pollution Control (Environmental Impact Assessment) Regulations, 1997;

“environmental management plan” means a plan approved by the Environmental Council of Zambia in accordance with the Environmental Protection and Pollution Control Act;

“game management area” means an area of land declared as such under section twenty-six of the Zambia Wildlife Act, 1998;

(c) On page 11,

(i) after line 7 by the insertion immediately after the definition of “large-scale mining licence” of the following new definition:

“local forest” means an area declared as such under section seventeen of the Forests Act;

(ii) in line 19 by the deletion of the definition of “mineral’ and the substitution therefor of the following definition; “mineral” means any substance occurring naturally in or on the earth or in or under water and which was formed by or subjected to a geological process and includes any mineral occurring in residue stockpiles or in residue deposits, but excludes-

(a) water, other than water taken from the land or any water body for the extraction of any mineral from such water; and

(b) petroleum;

(iii) after line 30 by the insertion immediately after the definition of “mineral processing” of the following new definition; “mineral processing licence” means a mineral processing licence granted under Part VI of this Act.

(iv) in lines 31 to 34 by the deletion of the definition of “mineral royalty” and the substitution therefor of the following definition: “mineral royalty” means a payment received as consideration for the extraction of minerals;

(v) in line 45 by the insertion immediately after the word “right” of the words “and non-mining right”;

(d) on page 12

(i) in line 2 by the deletion of the words “that has been” after the word “property”;

(ii) after line 8 by the insertion immediately after the definition of “mining right” of the following new definitions: “National Forest” means an area declared as such under section eight of the Forests Act; “National Park” means an area declared as such under section ten of the Zambia Wildlife Act, 1998;

(iii) in line 11 by the deletion of the definition of “ore” and the substitution therefore of the following definitions; “ore” means a natural aggregate of one or more valuable minerals which may be mined or from which some valuable parts may be extracted; “ore body” means continuous, well defined mass of ore;

(iv) in line 18 by the insertion of the words “of Geological Survey” after the word “Director”; and

(v) after line 47 by the deletion of the definition of “royalty” and substitution therefor of the following definition; “royalty” means royalty charged under this Act.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3 and 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 5 ─ (Prohibition of prospecting, mining, etc. without mining rights or mineral processing licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 5, on page 13:
(i) in line 24 by the insertion of the words “of Geological Survey” after the word “Director”;

(ii) in line 26 by the insertion of the words “of Geological Survey” after the word “Director”; and

(iii) in line 31 by the insertion of the words “Geological Survey, after the words “Director”; and

 On page 14:

(i) in line 1 by the insertion of the words “or un-incorporate body” after the word “corporate”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 5, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 6 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 7 ─ (Certain persons disqualified from holding mining rights)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 7, on page 15, in lines 2 to 3, by the deletion after the word “Act” of the comma and the words “and intends to carry on the sole business of mining”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 7, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 8 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 9 ─ (Priority of applications for mining rights)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 9, on page 15, in line 30, by the insertion of the word “Director” of the words “or the Director of Geological Survey, as the case may be,”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 9, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 10 ─ (Mining right for area subject to other rights)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 10, on page 15:

(i) in line 36 by the deletion of the word “may” and the substitution therefor of the word “shall”;

On page 16:

(i) in lines 1 and 2 by the deletion of the words “taking into account the
following” and the colon and the substitution therefor of the words “where”; and

(ii) in lines 3 to 9

by the deletion of subparagraphs (a) to (d) and the 
substitution therefor of the following new subparagraphs:

(a) the minerals or metals applied for are different from those indicated on the holder’s licence or permit;

(b) the geographical position of the minerals or metals applied for is different from the holder’s ore body position indicated in the approved programme of operations;

(c) the geographical position of the minerals or metals applied for is different from the position of the holder’s plant and infrastructure indicated in the approved programme of operations; or

(d) the mineral applied for is an industrial mineral and the holder is not eligible under this Act”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 10, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 11 ─ (Survey of land)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 11, on page 16, in line 15, by the insertion of the words “or the Director of Geological Survey as the case may be”, after the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 11, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 12 ─ (Bids)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 12, on page 16:

(i) in line 32 by the insertion of the words “and the Director”; and

(ii) in line 36 by the deletion of the word “commitment” and the substitution therefor of the word “management”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 12, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 13 ─ (Preference for Zambian products, etc)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 13, on page 17:

(i) in lines 12 to 13 by the deletion of the words” consistent with safety, efficiency and economy” and the comma; and

(ii) in lines 19 to 20 by the deletion of the words “consistent with safety, efficiency and economy”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 13, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 14 ─ (Application for prospecting licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 14, on page 17:

(i) in line 30

by the deletion of the words “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”; and

(ii) on page 18, in line 7

by the deletion of the words “mineral processing” and the substitution therefor of the word “processing”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 14, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 15 – (Consideration of application for prospecting licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 15,

(a) on page 18:

(i) in line 23

by the deletion of the of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”;

(ii) after line 30

by the insertion immediately after paragraph (b) of the following new paragraph:

( c) if the land is within a National Park, game management area, National Forest or local forest or is a bird sanctuary or land to which subsection (1) of section one hundred and twenty-seven applies, the applicant has obtained the necessary written consent;

(i) in lines 31 and 34

by the renumbering of paragraphs ( c) and (d) as paragraphs (d) and (e), respectively; and

(ii) in line 37 and 38
by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”; and

(b) on page 19:

(i) in line 1

by the deletion of the word “Minster” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director of Geological Survey”;

(ii) in line 15

by the insertion immediately after the word “Director” of the words “of Geological Survey”;

(iii) in line 24

by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director of Geological Survey”;

Clause 15 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 16 – (Grant of prospecting licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 16

(a) on page 19 in line 32

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”;

(b) on page 20, in lines 4 and 7

by the deletion of the words “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”.

Clause 16 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 17 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 18 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 19 – (Obligations of holder of prospecting licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 19:

(a) on page 20

(i) in lines 24 to 34 by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”; and

(ii) in line 38

by the insertion immediately after the word “Director” of the words “of Geological Survey”; and

(b) on page 21

(i) in lines 2 to 18

by the insertion immediately after the word “Director”, wherever it appears, of the words “of Geological Survey”; and

(ii) in line 15

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of he words “Director of Geological Survey”.

Clause 19 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 20 – (Amendment of programme of prospecting operations)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment on page 22:

(a) in lines 13 to 21

by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of  the words “Director of Geological Survey”; and

(b) in lines 16 and 18

by the deletion of the words “where the holder intends to make any amendment of programme of prospecting operations”.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, as the House might know, I am a member of the Committee that was tasked to look at this Bill. I wish to propose that the hon. Minister makes a correction to his amendment in line 16 to 18. The intention of the amendment is being missed and with this proposed amendment, it renders the whole section or the clause redundant. In Clause 22, in line 16 to 18, the proposal by the hon. Minister is to delete the words “Where the holder intends to make any amendment of programme of prospecting operations”. The actual amendment ought to be the deletion of the words: “Where the Minister and the rest ought to be retained”. The proposal of the hon. Minister is deleting the parts that are actually important for the Clause.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank Hon. Lubinda for that observation. Yes, we concede. That is correct.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Amendment agreed to. Clause further amended accordingly.

Clause 20 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 22 – (Restrictions on removal of minerals)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in 22 on page 23:

(a) in lines 6 to 7

by the insertion immediately after the word “Director”, wherever it appears, of the words “of Geological Survey”; and
 
(b) in line 10

by the deletion of the word “form’ and the substitution therefor of the word “from”.

Clause 22 as amended ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 23 – (Discovery of minerals not included in prospecting licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment on page 23:

(a) in lines 16 to 25

by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”; and

(b) after line 31

by the insertion of the following new subsection:

(5) A holder of an prospecting licence shall, where the holder discovers petroleum, report to the Minister within twenty-four hours of making the discovery.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, I support the amendment in principle. Nonetheless, I would like to propose to the hon. Minister that he makes it as practicable as possible. The proposal by the hon. Minister is that in the event of the prospector discovering petroleum, they ought to report to the hon. Minister within twenty-four hours. How practicable is that, given the long distances between the hon. Minister’s office and prospecting areas? I would like to suggest to him that we delete the phrase “twenty-four hours” and substitute it with, “immediately”. The word “immediately” can be used to suit the situation, but to say “twenty-four hours” is to ask for impossibilities.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I propose that we retain this amendment as it is because during prospecting for copper, if someone hits a gas layer and gas is emitted in the air, it can be very dangerous and has to be contained immediately. For example, if prospecting for oil and oil comes out, we need to go there immediately and start raising revenue. Otherwise, others might move in immediately like the hon. Member.

Laughter

Dr Mwansa:  The reason is that “Twenty-four hours” is practicable and we want to maintain it.

I thank you, Madam.

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order!

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 23, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 24 – (Renewal of Prospecting Licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 24:

(a) on page 23, in lines 34 to 36
by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”; and

(b) on page 24, in line 4

by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 24, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 25 – (Application for Large-Scale Mining Licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 25:

(a) on page 24, in line 14

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”;

(b) on page 25, in lines 19 and 21

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director”; and

(c) on page 26, in lines 7 and 9

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 25, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 26 – (Consideration of Application for Large-Scale Mining Licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 26:

(a) on page 26

(i) in line 12

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”;

(ii) in line 25

by the insertion immediately after the word “environmental” of the word “management”;

(iii) after line 31

by the insertion immediately after paragraph (e) of the following new paragraph:

(f) if the land is within a National Park, game management area, national forest or local forest, or is a bird sanctuary or land to which subsection (1) of section one hundred and twenty-seven applies, the applicant has obtained the necessary consent;

(iv) in lines 32 and 35
by the renumbering of paragraph (f) and (g) as (g) and (h), respectively;

(v) in lines 37 to 39

by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and

(b) on page 27, in line 1

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 26, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 27 – (Grant of Large-Scale Mining Licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 27, on page 27, in lines 4 to 18 by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 27, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 28 – (Obligation of Holder of Large-Scale Mining Licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 28, on page 27, in the marginal note by the deletion of the marginal note and the substitution therefor of the following marginal note:

“Duration of large-scale mining licence”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 28, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 29 – (Rights Conferred by Large-Scale Mining Licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 29, on page 28, in line 7, by the insertion immediately after the word “products” of the words “in accordance with the environmental management plan”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 29, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 30 – (Obligations of Holder of Large-Scale Mining Licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 30:

(a) on page 28

(i) after line 30

by the insertion immediately after paragraph (ii) of the following new paragraph:

 (iii) drill cores in respect of the mining area;

(ii) in lines 31 and 35

by the renumbering of paragraphs (iii) and (iv) as paragraph (iv) and (v), respectively;

(iii) in line 31

by the deletion of the words “and systematic” after the word “accurate”; and

(iv) in line 33

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and

(b) on page 29

(i) in lines 3 and 4

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”;

(ii) in lines 8, 9 and 11

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 30, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 31 – (Amendment of Programme of Mining Operations)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 31, on page 29, in lines 26 to 33 by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 31, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 32 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 33 – (Discovery of Minerals not Included in Large-Scale Mining Licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 33, on page 30:

(a) in lines 22 to 36

by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and

(b) in line 40

by the deletion of the words “Suspension of production” and the substitution therefor of the following new subsection:

(6) A holder of a large-scale mining licence shall, where the holder discovers petroleum, report to the Director within twenty-four hours of making the discovery.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 33, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 34 – (Suspension of Production)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 34, on page 31:

(a) in line 7

by the deletion of paragraph (c);

(b) in lines 8 and 9

by the renumbering of paragraphs (d) and (e) as paragraphs (c) and (d), respectively

(c) in lines 11 to 29

by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”;

(d) in line 16

by the deletion of “(e)” after the word “to” and the substitution therefor of “(d)”; and

(e) in line 30

by the deletion of “(d)” after the word “paragraph” and the substitution therefor of “(c)”.

CLAUSE 35 – (Renewal of large-scale mining licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 35

(a) on page 31 in lines 36 and 38

 by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”;

(b) on page 32 lines 17 to 36

 by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and

(c) on page 33 in lines 1 to 13

 by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”;

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 35, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 36 – (Application for large-scale gemstone licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 36

(a) on page 33 in line 20

 by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”;
(b) on page 34

(i) after line 24

by the insertion immediately after paragraph (i) of the following new paragraph :

(i) a plan for cutting, polishing and faceting of gemstones in Zambia;

(ii) in lines 25, 27 and 30

by the renumbering of paragraphs (j), (k) and (l) as
(k), (1) and (m), respectively; and

(iii) in lines 28 to 32

by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

CLAUSE 37 – (Consideration of Application for large-scale gemstone licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 3

(a) on page 34 in line 35

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and

(b) on page 35

(i) in line 10

by the deletion of the words “management environmental plan” and the substitution therefor of the words “environmental management plan”;

(ii) after line 16

by the insertion immediately after paragraph (e) of the following new paragraph (f):

(f) if the land is within a National Park, game management area, national forest or local forest or is a bird sanctuary or land to which subsection (1) of section one hundred and twenty-seven applies, the applicant has obtained the necessary consent;

(iii) in lines 17 and 21

 by the renumbering of paragraphs (f) and (g) as paragraphs (g) and (h) respectively; and

(iv) in lines 23 to 27

 by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 37, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 38 – (Grant of large-scale gemstone licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 38

(a) on page 35 in lines 30 and 34

 by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and
 
(b) on page 36

(i) in line 7

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and

(ii) in line 8

by the insertion immediately after the word “environmental” of the word “commitment”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 38, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

 Clause 39 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 40 – (Rights Conferred by large-scale gemstone licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 40, on page 36

(a) in line 36

 by the deletion of paragraph (d) and the substitution therefor of the following paragraph:

 (d)   prospect within the mining area for any gemstones; and

(b) in line 37

 by the insertion immediately after the word “products” of the words “in accordance with the environmental management plan”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 40, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1610 hours until 1630 hours.

[MADAM CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]

CLAUSE 41 – (Obligations of holder of large-scale gemstone licence)

Dr Mwansa: I beg to move an amendment in Clause 41

(a) on page 37

(i) after line 11

 by the insertion immediately after paragraph (d) of the following new paragraph:

  (e) comply with the plan for cutting, polishing, and 
 faceting gemstones in Zambia;

(ii) in lines 12 and 14

 by the renumbering of paragraphs (e) and (f) as paragraphs (f) and (f) , respectively.

(iii) after line 24

 by the insertion immediately after paragraph (ii) of the following new paragraph:

(iii) drill cores in respect of the mining area;

(iv) in lines 25 and 29

by the renumbering of paragraphs (iii) and (iv) as paragraphs (iv) and (v), respectively; and

(v) in line 28

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and
 
(b) on page 38 in lines 5 to 10

by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 41, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 42 – (Amendment of programme of mining operations)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 42, in lines 25 to 31

by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 42, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 43 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 44 – (Discovery of Minerals not included in large-scale gemstone licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 44

(a) on page 39 in lines 25 to 33

 by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and 
(b) on page 40

(i) in lines 1 to 3

by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and

(ii) after line 3

by the insertion immediately after subsection (4) of the following new subsection:

(5)  A holder of a large-scale gemstone licence shall, where the holder discovers petroleum, report to the Director within twenty-four hours of making the discovery.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 44, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 45 – (Suspension of production)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 45, on page 40

(a) in line 10

 by the deletion of paragraph ©;

(b) in lines 11 and 12

 by the renumbering of paragraphs (d) and (e) as paragraphs (c) and (d), respectively; and

(c) in lines 14 to 34

 by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 45, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 46 ─ (Renewal of large-scale gemstone licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 46:

(a) on page 41, in lines 3 to 31 by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and

(b) on page 42, in lines 3 to 20 by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 46, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 47 ─ (Application for prospecting permit)

Dr Mwansa: Madam, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 47, on page 42, in line 27 by the insertion immediately after the word “Director” of the words “of Geological Survey”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 47, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 48 (Consideration of application for prospecting permit)

Dr Mwansa: Madam, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 48:

(a) on page 43, in lines 17 to 37 by the insertion immediately after the word “Director” wherever it appears of the words “of Geological Survey”;

(b) on page 44, in line 7 by the insertion immediately after the word “Director”, wherever it appears, of the words “of Geological Survey”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 48, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 49 (Grant of prospecting permit)

Dr Mwansa: Madam I beg to move an amendment in Clause 49, on page 44, in lines 10 to 23 by the insertion immediately after the word “Director”, wherever it appears, of the words “of Geological Survey”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 49, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 50 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 51 ─ (Rights conferred by prospecting permit)

Dr Mwansa: Madam, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 51, on page 44, after line 33 by the insertion of the following new sub-clauses:

(2) A prospecting permit or any interest therein shall not be transferred, assigned, encumbered or dealt with in any other manner without the approval of the Director of Geological Survey.

(3) A holder of a prospecting permit who intends to transfer, assign, encumber or deal in any manner with the permit shall apply to the Director of Geological Survey giving such particulars concerning the proposed transferee, assignee, or other party concerned as would be required in an application for a prospecting permit.

(4) The Director of Geological Survey shall, where an application made under subsection (3) meets the requirements of this Act and the transferee is not disqualified under any provision of this Act from holding a prospecting permit, grant approval to the transfer, assignment, encumbrance or other dealing with the exploration permit or interest therein for the unexpired period of the permit.

(5) Any transaction purporting to transfer a prospecting permit in contravention of this Act is void.

(6) For the purpose of this section, “interest” in a prospecting permit means in the case of holder who is a private company, a controlling interest in such holder.

Mr Lubinda: Madam, I agree with the amendment, but I beg to propose two refinements to that amendment. Firstly, the insertion of sub-clause (1) after 51 and secondly, the marginal note has to be amended so that it also reflects the contents of the new sub-clauses, which are (2) to (6), and I propose that the amended marginal note reads as follows:

“Rights conferred by prospecting permit and transfer of permit”

This will ensure that both the spirit of sub-clause (1) and the new sub-clauses are provided for in the marginal note.

Dr Mwansa: Madam, I have no objection to that because it gives clarity to the Clause.

I thank you, Madam.

Amendment agreed to. Clause further amended accordingly.

Clause 51, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60 and 61 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 62 ─ (Requirement to convert small-scale mining licence to large-scale mining licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 62:

(a) on page 50, in lines 36 to 30 by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”; and

(b) on page 51, in line 3 by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 62, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 63 – (Termination of small-scale mining licence for insufficient production.)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 63, on page 51 in line 13 by the deletion of the word ‘Minister’ and the substitution therefor of the word ‘Director’.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 63, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 64 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 65 – (Consideration of application for small-scale gemstone.)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I be go to move an amendment in Clause 65, on page 52, in line 22 by the insertion immediately after the word “right” of the words “and the holder has not granted consent”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 65, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 66 (Grant of small-scale gemstone licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 66, on page 53, in line 6 by the insertion immediately after the words “conditions of the” of the words “small-scale”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 66, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 67, 68 and 69 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 70 – (Renewal of small-scale gemstone licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 70, on page 54, in line 24 by the insertion of immediately after the words ‘renewal of a’ of the words ‘small-scale’.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 70, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 72 – (Requirement to convert small-scale gemstone licence to large-scale gemstone licence).

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 72, on page 55, in line 6 to 12 by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 72, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 73 – (Termination of small-scale gemstone licence for insufficient production).

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 73, on page 55, in line 24 by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 73, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79 and 80 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 81- (Obligations of holder of gemstone sales certificate)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 81, on page 58, in the marginal note by the deletion of the words “gemstones sales certificate” and the substitution therefor of the words “artisan’s mining right”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 81, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 82 – (Application for mineral processing licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 82

(a) on page 59, in lines 22 to 28 by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”; and

(b) on page 60, in lines 5 to 6 by the deletion of the word “Minster “, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 82, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 83 – (Consideration of application for mineral processing)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 83, on page 60, in lines 9 to 34 by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 83, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 84 – (Grant of mineral processing licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 84, on page 60:

(a)  in lines 37 to 40 by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”; and

(b) on page 61,

(i) in lines 10 to 12, by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”.

(ii) in line 11, by the insertion immediately after the words “commencement of the” of the words “activities under the”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 84, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 85 – (Duration of mineral processing licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 85, on page 61, in line 17, by the deletion of the word “seven” and the substitution therefor of the word “fifteen”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 85, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 86 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 87 – (Obligations of holder of mineral processing licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment that in Clause 87, on page 61:

(a)  in lines 27 to 37 by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”; and

(b) on page 62, in line 7, by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 87, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 88 – (Amendment of the programme of mineral processing operations)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 88, on page 62, in lines 25 to 30 by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 88, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 89, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 90 – (Renewal of mineral processing licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 90, on page 63:

(a) in lines 22 to 24 by the deletion of the word “Minister” wherever it appears and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”; and

(a) in line 25 by the deletion of the word “seven” and the substitution therefor of the word “fifteen”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 90, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 91 – (Termination of mineral processing license for insufficient production)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 91, on page 63, in line 36, by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 91, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 92, 93, 94 and 95 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 96 – (Annual operating permit)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 96, on page 65, in line 9, by the insertion immediately after the word “right” of the words “other than a holder of a processing licence or a prospecting permit”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 96, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 97 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 98 – (Alteration of prospecting area)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 98, on page 66, after line 13, by the deletion of subsection (3) and the substitution therefor of the following subsection:

(3) At any time during the currency of a prospecting licence or prospecting permit, the holder may, with the permission of the Director of Geological Survey and subject to such conditions as the Director of Geological Survey, impose in relation to the prospecting operations to be carried on, increase the size of the prospecting area:

Provided that the prospecting area, as so increased, shall not exceed the maximum prescribed under this Act.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 98 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 99 – (Alteration of mining area)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 99, on page 66:

(a) in lines 24 to 31 by the deletion of subsection (1) and the substitution therefor of the following:
 
(1) A holder of a large-scale mining licence, large-scale gemstone licence, small scale mining licence may, at any time during its currency, apply to the Director for the alteration of the mining area and the director may, subject to this section, approve or reject the application.; and

(b) in line 37 by the deletion of the words “the Minister or”

  
Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 99 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 100 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 101, on page 67, in lines 19 to 38 by the insertion immediately after the word “Director” wherever it appears of the words “or the Director of Geological Survey, as the case may be.”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 101, as amended, is ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 102:

(a) on page, 68

(i) in lines 13 to 35

by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the words “Director or Director of Geological Survey, as the case my be”; and

(ii) after line 26

by the insertion immediately after paragraph (e) of the following new paragraph:

(e) in the case of a large-scale mining licence or large-scale gemstone licence, the holder has failed to carry on mining operations in accordance with the proposed plan of mining operations and the gross proceeds of sale of minerals from and areas subject to such licence in each of any three successive years is less than half of the deemed turnover applicable to that licence in each of those years; and; and

(iii) in line 27

by the renumbering of paragraph (f) as paragraph (g); and

(b) on page 69 in lines 3 to 14

by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Director of Geological Survey, as the case may be,”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 102, as amended, is ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3 and 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 105, on page 70, in lines 27 to 34 by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Geological Survey and Director of Mines Safety.”

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 105, as amended, is ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 106, on page 71:

(a) in lines 1 and 11

by the deletion of words “import, export or transit” and the substitution therefor of the words “import or export”;

(b) in line 10

by the deletion of the word “kwacha” and the substitution therefor of the words “penalty units”; and

(c) in line 34 by the deletion of the word “transit” and the comma.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 106, as amended, is ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 7 and 8 ordered to stand par of the Bill.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 109, on page 72, in line 25 by the deletion of marginal note “Insurance and indemnities”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 109, as amended, is ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 10 and 11 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 112, on page 75, line 6, by the deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 112, as amended, is ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 113 and 114 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 115, on page 76:

(a) in lines 4 to 18

by the deletion of the word “Minister”, wherever it appears, and the substitution therefor of the words “Director or Director of Geological Survey”; and

(b) in lines 16 to 17

by the deletion of the words “Minister responsible for environment” and the substitution therefor of the word “Environmental Council of Zambia”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 115, as amended, is ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 116 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 117, on page 77:

(a) in line 10

by the insertion immediately after the words “Director of Mines Safety” of the following words: “in consultation with the Environmental Council of Zambia”; and

(b) in line 14

by the insertion of the word “management” immediately after the word “environmental”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 117, as amended, is ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 118, 119 and 120 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 121 – (Wasteful mining practices)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 121, on page 79, in line 16 by deletion of the word “Minister” and the substitution therefor of the words “Director of Mines Safety”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 121, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 122 and 123 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 124 – (Responsibilities of Director of Geological Survey)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 124,

(a) on page 81,

(i) after line 30 by the insertion immediately after paragraph (c) of the following new paragraph:

(d) be responsible for –

(i) granting preliminary investigation rights, prospecting permits, prospecting licenses and mineral processing licences;

(ii) promoting of value addition to minerals and metals; and

(iii) regulating, prospecting, mineral processing and value addition activities;

(ii) in line 32 and 34 by the renumbering of paragraph (d) and (e) as paragraphs (e) and (f), respectively; and

(b) on page 82, in line 6 by the deletion of the words “or in transit”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 124, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 125 and 126 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 127 – (Restrictions of rights of entry by holder of licence or permit)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 127, on page 85, line 32 by the insertion of the words “or game management area” immediately after the words “National Park”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 127, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 128, 129, 130, 131 and 132 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 133 – (Royalties on production of minerals)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 133, on page 88

(a) after line 19 by the insertion immediately after sub-section (1) of the following new sub-section;

(2) The Commissioner-General shall charge a mineral royalty against a person who extracts minerals or any person in possession of minerals extracted in the Republic, whether extracted under a mining right or not.;

(b) by the renumbering of subsection (2) as subsection (3).

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 133, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 134, 135, 136, 137, 138, 139, 140, 141 and 142 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 143 – (Annual charge in respect of licences)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 143, on page 91, in lines 33 to 34 by the deletion of the words “a licence, permit or mining right other than a gemstone sales certificate or mineral processing licence” and the substitution therefor of the words “licence or permit”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 143, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 144 – (Director and other officers)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg an amendment in Clause 144, on page 92, in line 3 by the insertion of the words “of Mines” immediately after the word “Director”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 144, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 145, 146, 147, 148 and 149 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 150 ─ (Mining Advisory Committee)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 150, on page 95:

(a) in line 2

(i) by the deletion of the word “and” and the substitution therefor of a comma; and

(ii)  by the insertion immediately after the word “Director” of the words “or the Director of Geological Survey;

  (b) in line 8

(i) by the deletion of the word “or” and substitution therefor of a comma; and

(ii) by the insertion immediately after the word “Director” of the words “or the Director of Geological Survey”; and

  (c) in lines 22 to 28 by the deletion of subsection (5) and the substitution therefor of the following subsection:

(5) where the Mining Advisory Committee advises the Minister, Director or the Director of Geological Survey pursuant to subsection (3) and the Minister, Director or the Director of Geological Survey proposes to dispose of that matter other than in accordance with the advice of the Committee, the Minister, Director or Director of Geological Survey shall, before disposing of the application, furnish the Committee with a statement in writing of the Minister’s, Director’s or the Director of Survey’s reasons for doing so.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 150, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 151 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 152 ─ (Appeals against decisions of Director)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 152:

(a)  on page 96:

(i) in the marginal note by the insertion immediately after the word “Director” of the words “or Director of Geological Survey”; and

(ii) in line 21 by the insertion immediately after the word “Director” of the words “or Director of Geological Survey; and

(b) on page 97:

(i) in lines 5 to 6 by the insertion immediately after the word “Director” of the words “or the Director of Geological Survey”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 152, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 153 ─ (Appeals in relation to licences issued by Minister)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 153, on page 97:

(a) in line 8 by the deletion of the hyphen; and

(b) in lines 9 to 16 by the deletion of paragraphs (a) to (d).

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 153, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 154, 156, 157, 158, 159, 160, 161 and 162 ordered to stand part of the Bill.{mospagebreak}

FIRST SCHEDULE

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in the First Schedule, on page 101:

(a) in lines 22 to 26 by the deletion of the clauses (ix), (x) and (xi) and the
 substitution therefor of the following clauses:

(ix) the Environmental Council of Zambia; and

(x) the Geological Society of Zambia.; and

(b) after line 24 by the insertion of the following substitution:

(2) The members of the Committee shall elect the Vice-Chairperson from among their number;
 
(c) n line 27 by the renumbering of subsection (2) as (3); and

(d) in lines 35 to 36 by the deletion of the words “and land” and the 
substitution therefor of a comma and the words “land, finance, labour, community development”.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, this is an amendment that receives the support of the Committee on Economic Affairs in as far as taking out the boards to be regulated by this Bill is concerned.

Nonetheless, I see that the amendment by the hon. Minister has the effect of reducing the membership composition from eleven to ten. The Committee is of the view that the number ought to be retained at eleven, by the inclusion of the two institutions that the hon. Minister has proposed, and in addition to that, the inclusion of the School of Mines at the University of Zambia, to represent the academia who are doing all the research, and who will also add value to the Mining Advisory Committee. I wonder whether the hon. Minister would like to consider the fact that boards such as this normally have an odd number of members. However, now, we will end up with an even number and we are missing the opportunity of learning the wealth of knowledge from the academia.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC.): Madam Chairperson, we object to his proposed amendment. The amendment which we have proposed is equitable. Some of the institutions he is mentioning are now politicised and will not add any value to this process.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Mukanga (Kansanshi): Madam Chairperson, it is very strange to hear that institutions such as the University of Zambia, which is supposed to be appreciated by everyone, can be politicised. Who can politicise an institution such as the University of Zambia? These are some of the questions that need to be addressed even as we look at the issues raised by the hon. Minister. I think that if the University of Zambia has been politicised, then it is the Executive which has politicised it. It is, therefore, important to take into consideration the amendment that has been raised by Hon. Lubinda.

Amendment agreed to. First Schedule amended accordingly.

First Schedule, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Second Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

THE ROAD TRAFFIC (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2008

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

SECOND SCHEDULE – (Section 42)

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in the  Second Schedule, on page 4 by the deletion in numbers 5 and 6 of the words “motor dealer’s vehicle licence” and the substitution therefor of the words “motor vehicle dealer’s licence”.

Amendment agreed to. Second Schedule amended accordingly.

Second Schedule, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

____

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through committee with amendments:

The Mines and Minerals Development Bill, 2008

The Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill, 2008

Report adopted.

Third Readings today.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Mines and Minerals Development Bill, 2008

The Road Traffic (Amendment) Bill, 2008

____

COMMITTEE OF SUPPLY

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

VOTE 90/01– (Office of the President – Lusaka Province - Headquarter – K7,640,672,584).

(Consideration resumed)

Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Chairperson, I had reached a stage where I had made a point that the Western Province because of its sandy terrain needs attention in terms of creating hard surface roads.

Madam Chairperson, to that extent, it is my view that in order to facilitate developments, every ward in the province must be serviced by high grade gravel roads and all district headquarters linked to the provincial headquarters, Mongu, by tarred roads via the shortest possible routes. It is therefore, necessary that the Mongu/Kalabo Road be completed. The Mongu/Kalabo Road via Mushitwambumu and the Mongu/Sesheke Road via Senanga must be tarred. All districts must to be linked to each other by tarred roads, and to that extent, the Kaoma/Sesheke Road via Luampa and Mulobezi, …

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: … the Sesheke/Kalabo Road via Kalongola, the Kaoma/Lukulu Roadvia Katunda and Mangango and, indeed, the Lukulu/Kalabo Road via Lukulu West Constituency and Liuwa Constituency must be tarred.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: When we do this, the province will also have an opportunity to catch up with other provinces.

Madam Chairperson, we do not forget canals. Transportation by canals in some parts of the province is critical. To that extent, when we consider other issues, the issue we have raised of the Western Province being the poorest must be addressed. Just to remind the House, in 1964, this country had 100 graduates. A little known fact is that out of those graduates, seventy-five hailed from the Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: How possible is it that now the province has the lowest progression rates from Grade 7 to Grade 8, Grade 9 to 10 and from Grade 12 to tertiary education? Something needs to be done about this.

Madam Chairperson, the issue really is about equity. We offer ourselves for higher office because of the cries of the many people across this country and on the basis of equity and development, equity that no province and no area will be left behind and on the basis of accelerated development for all.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Thank you, Madam Chairperson, for this opportunity that you have given me to support the budget for the Eastern Province.

To begin with, Madam Chairperson, I would like to say that the Eastern Province has two neighbouring countries and these are Mozambique and Malawi. As a province, we are very happy that we have been at peace with these two neighbouring countries. Across the border, in Malawi, we know that our friends had a policy that was different from ours. When we supported the One China policy, our friends had a different view. Therefore, the province was being used by some politicians to get through to some countries, …

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: … but that is no longer the case, Madam Chairperson. We know that the view has changed across the border and we are happy as a province.

Madam Chairperson, we are also happy that all the nineteen Members of Parliament that from the Eastern Province are participating in the National Constitutional Conference.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Madam Chairperson, we are proud, as a province, because we know that we are going to make an input into the document that will be produced at the NCC.

Hon. Opposition Member: So, what?

Mr V. Mwale: All the nineteen constituencies are represented and the people are proud of us and, as a province, we are proud.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Madam Chairperson, I also would like to thank the Government that when the ambulances which the Government has brought for all the provinces and all the health institutions were launched in the Eastern Province. We were the first people to get the ambulances that the Government bought.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: We are very proud and very happy, as a province, that the Government is really thinking of the Eastern Province in the way it has conducted programmes. For the first time, the people in Chadiza will have a district hospital.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: This is a milestone for people of Chadiza, who, all along, had to go to Chipata to seek proper medical attention.

Mr Mbewe: You are talking well, my brother.

Mr V. Mwale: Now, we are saying that the Government should continue with this programme to make sure that it is well funded and that the people enjoy the services of the health facilities.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Madam Chairperson, at this point, I would like to talk about roads. I know that Hon. C. B. K. Banda, SC. for Chasefu Constituency has talked about the roads and the Great East Road, Mfuwe Road and the road that connects Chama to the Northern Province.

Madam Chairperson, at this time, I also would like to bring to the attention of the Minister of Works and Supply, the state of the Chipata/Lundazi Road which is a very important road that links Chipata to Lundazi and Chama and also through to Malawi. This road is very important. This road cuts across two districts that are very productive. The two districts we are talking about have contributed so much in producing tobacco and cotton.

Mr Mbewe:  Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: All the tobacco that we are boasting about in the province is grown in these districts. The other day the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives was telling us how our performance has been as a province in terms of tobacco production. All these tonnes we are talking about are being produced in Lundazi and Chipata. However, when you look at the Chipata/Lundazi Road, it leaves much to be desired. We have seen that the Government has tried. A contractor was engaged by the name of Stufanet and Brasen from South Africa. They mended the potholes, but it did not take a month before the road was destroyed again. We do not know what sort of work they were doing, but I believe that a lot of money was paid to this contractor, but the work that they did is almost zero. Therefore, we are saying that this road must be given some more money. We want to see that this road is not neglected the way it has been. It is a very important road, especially that about forty kilometres of the road is in my constituency.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: The other road which is also important is the Chipata/Chadiza Road. I do not know whether we have considered putting tarring this road. The gravel is making it very difficult for the people of Chadiza to use the road, especially in the productive area because they cannot transport produce to Chipata. The road is very bad. From Chadiza to Lusaka, people are opting to use the other alternative of passing through Katete and not Chipata. Therefore, we want this road to be tarred. The Government should have a programme to make sure that the Chipata/Chadiza Road is tarred. It is a very important road.

Hon. Members for Eastern Province: Hear, hear!

Mr V. Mwale: Madam Chairperson, I also would like to talk about agriculture. The Eastern Province relies heavily on agriculture. We know, like the other hon. Member said the other time, we do not have mines in the Eastern Province. We do not have as many industries as the Copperbelt and Lusaka. We rely on agriculture. Most of the employment that people have in the province is related to agriculture. Most people in the rural areas are now surviving because of agriculture. Therefore, we want the Government to put much more effort in trying to make sure that farmers are motivated. We want to see an increased number of markets.

Mr Imasiku: Yes, madala.

Mr V. Mwale: People have problems selling their produce because there are very few markets. I can give an example of my constituency, Chipangali, where we only have one centre known as Mugubudu, where people take all their maize, tobacco and cotton. We want to see that people have more markets in different areas so that farmers do not have problems in taking their produce to one centre. We know that we have not done very well in terms of rehabilitating feeder roads and therefore, it is only important that we take markets close to the farmers.

The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives has performed well in other ministries and I am very confident that she will come to our aid on these issues that I am raising.

Madam Chairperson, the other issue is that of storage. I would like to agree with the hon. Members who said earlier that we have not taken care of the maize that we have grown, especially in the Eastern Province. Personally, I have visited some of the storage facilities that we have in my constituency. I have noted that after growing a lot of maize and the Government spending a lot of money buying this maize, we have not taken good care of it and have let the maize rot. At the times we need to sell the maize to the people so that they can survive, there is very rotten maize.

Madam Chairperson, through you, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives to pay attention to this matter and make sure that we have proper storage facilities. As I have stated, I know the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives can do it.

Madam Chairperson, I let me also talk about the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund that has been created. The Eastern Province has a lot of gemstones in Chama, Petauke, Lundazi and Nyimba Districts and we have let people from other places and countries who have a lot of money buy these gemstones as raw materials.

We would like to see that the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund gives opportunities to the local people in the province to get these stones from the ground, polish them and make finished products before they are exported so that value is added to them. The people have sold the gemstones without realising much, and yet the money that the people who come from other countries get out of our own gemstones is colossal.

A lot has been said about this by so many other speakers, but in the context of the Eastern Province, this is true. A lot of gemstones have been exported without any tax. Foreigners have taken the gemstones from our province and subsequently, out of the country through so many other avenues without declaring them. Therefore, we would like to see that the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Fund gives opportunities to the people by enabling them to acquire equipment that will polish these stones.

Madam Chairperson, I also would like to talk about the Zambia-Malawi border demarcation. There is a lot of silence about this now and this is very worrying as it is a very important issue. The farmers there are in conflict with farmers from across the border as they do not know the border demarcations. They do not know where their fields end and where those of Malawians start.

We would like the demarcation exercise of this border to recommence. I know that the hon. Minister of Lands and other relevant hon. Ministers are listening. Please, we would like this to be completed very soon because it is a very important matter to our province.

Madam Chairperson, I can see that I am running out of time, but I would like to talk about the water situation in the province. People in the rural areas do not have access to clean water. There are not many boreholes that have been put up in our province. I am appealing to the hon. Minister responsible to give us a good number of boreholes.

Madam Chairperson, up to this time, people are still drinking water from the same source with animals. I know that this is a very caring Government and something will be done, but this is a fact that has to be brought to the attention of this House.

There are people, who are keeping cattle in our province, but we do not have enough dams and therefore, this is a problem. When there are no rains and the waters have dried up, our cattle have problems. They grow thin and cannot be marketed and sometimes die of thirst. We want this to be also looked into. We want a good number of dams and boreholes in the province so that the people and animals can survive.

Madam Chairperson, finally, there are some constituencies in our province that still do not have electricity. Some constituencies have electricity, but there are a good number such as Chasefu and Chipangali where people do not have electricity. The House is aware of the importance of electricity to people. People have grown groundnuts and soya beans and can make some products out of these crops. People can make peanut butter which they can sell and oil out of groundnuts and do not have to go to towns or urban areas to buy cooking oil because they can process it themselves. However, in places where there is no electricity, it is very important for people to acquire small equipment that can process these products and add more value to their farm produce.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Reverend Nyirongo (Bwacha): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the estimates of expenditure with regard to the Central Province. The Central Province covers an area of about 94,394 square kilometres with an estimated population of 1.3 million people. It is an interlinking province between Lusaka and Copperbelt Provinces. As such, there is a need to seriously talk about developmental programmes.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to register my gratitude to our hon. Provincial Minister and Permanent Secretary for being very understanding and proactive. They have opened their offices to listen to issues and if possible, are ready to adjust to accommodate any contributions and issues that we raise. They are focused and also determined to see the Central Province improve, change and develop.

Madam Chairperson, the economy of the Central Province is mainly driven by the agricultural sector and, in most cases, many are surviving through small-scale farming. We also have a considerable number of large-scale farms in the province. We are all aware that the Government’s policy has been to promote increased and sustainable agricultural production, productivity and competitiveness in order to ensure food security, income generation, creation of employment opportunities and reduction in poverty levels.

The province has benefited from the Fertiliser Support Programme and would appeal to the Government for an increase to such supplies of inputs if we have to alleviate poverty. The province has further benefited from the Animal Drift Power Programme and has continued to train farmers in improved marketing skills.

Madam Chairperson, the Central Province has benefited from the Land Development Programme through the Nansanga Farming Block Project, an area which has benefited from ZESCO power line from Serenje Town to Nansanga itself. The province has also benefited from the fish farming programmes which has seen an improvement to fish production and living standards of our small-scale fish farmers.

My appeal to the Government is that they assist the farmers open up tobacco silos as most of the farmers in the Central Province grow tobacco, and if possible, to open up a processing plant for them in Kabwe District.

On health, an increase in the utilisation of health services has been recorded. However, we still have far-flung places that do not enjoy these services and are subjected to walking long distances in order to access health facilities. I am appealing to the Government to ensure that health services are brought to the best door steps of our people. It is very painful, difficult and practically impossible in some places to enjoy motherhood.

I have benefited an added mini-hospital in my constituency, but still, the problem is there. Please, Government, come to our aid.

Infrastructure development has been another area where the Central Province has benefited, especially on the school rehabilitation programmes. Many schools have been worked on and in some areas, these schools are being built. Some districts have benefited, as the Government is building two district hospitals in the province at the moment.

The road infrastructure has improved greatly and our roads are becoming better each and everyday. However, I would like to bring to the Government’s attention the issue of the Mulungushi Bridge which is a link between Kabwe and Kapiri Mposhi District. This bridge is just too low to contain floods when the river is over flooded. When you are approaching the bridge, it is like you are driving yourself into the waters of the Mulungushi River, but alas, you are just connecting yourself to Kapiri Mposhi.

Madam Chairperson, this bridge needs rehabilitation as we might be having another disaster in waiting. We should not wait for that bridge to collapse or have another over flooding like it happened some years back where life was lost. Let it not happen again, especially that we now have a university in that area and the bridge is on the Great North Road.

Madam Chairperson, it is Government’s policy to provide clean and safe drinking water for all. The province has benefited a lot from the water and sanitation project funded by the World Bank in conjunction with the Government. However, Kabwe rural has been left out from this programme and people have to still travel long distances in search of water. We appeal to the Government to come to the aid of their people and drill more boreholes in the rural parts of Kabwe. This is a very urgent need and these services have to be delivered to the people without further delays.

Madam Chairperson, the Central Province has benefited by having a University now and at the same time, Nkrumah Teacher’s Training College is being upgraded to start offering degree courses.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Reverend Nyirongo: However, there is a need to scale up to improve the educational training facilities as we have about fourteen to fifteen training centres. Therefore, I appeal to the Government to invest much in building training centres.

Madam Chairperson, let me conclude by appealing to the Government to allocate more funds to programmes that economically empower the people. The Central Province is disadvantaged in that the majority of the people depend on informal employment. We are grateful to the Government for giving the people cattle and goats as part of an empowerment programme.

Now the issue of the Railway Systems of Zambia is long overdue. The nation has been deceived for a long time now and the Government needs to swing into action rather than continuing being a talking shop.

The Central Province, being the Headquarters of the Railway Systems of Zambia, has not benefited anything at all apart from the promissory notes the Railway Systems of Zambia gives to our council. Let me advise here that there is no successful railway investment without working and investing on the railway communications network system. Presently, it is a disaster. It is a death trap. Could we get more serious and probably get annoyed, as a Government, with the Railway Systems of Zambia for deceiving us all these years. The time to rescue ourselves is now.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba (Shiwang’andu): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to discuss and debate the vote of the Northern Province.

Before I proceed, I wish to express my personal and profound sadness at the passing away of a colleague, the late Hon. Dr. Chosani Njobvu. May His Soul Rest In Eternal Peace.

Madam Chairperson, as is well known, the Northern Province is the largest province in the whole country.

Hon. Northern Province Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: This is a fact which is known to the Government and yet there is very little that is being done generally speaking to improve the quality of life of the people in the Northern Province.

As I stand here, I am a very sad person. Two days ago, I came from the constituency and I had an opportunity to run through three other districts in the province. Generally speaking, there is very little or no food at all. The rains, as I was told, started very late and are very scanty. As if that were not enough, the people have been rendered extremely poor by our own Government.

The Food Reserve Agency went into the province, purportedly to purchase the crops, specifically the maize crop, but alas, what did they do? They were very quick to collect thousands and thousands of bags of maize, but failed to pay farmers their produce.

This situation has been compounded by the fact that instead of the Government continuing to support the farmers in the area by giving them the Fertiliser Support Programme, the programme was curtailed. It was shortened or cut off at the time the farmers had just planted their new crop.

Madam Chairperson, this is a very sad development. Unlike in the other provinces where there has been surplus rainy water, in many parts of the Northern Province, …

The Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]

Major Chibamba (Shiwang’andu): Mr Chairperson, let me go straight into the main meat.

Mr Munaile: Hammer, hammer!

Major Chibamba: The biggest issue in our country, today, is hunger.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba:  Nobody can pretend that all is well. It is not well in the Northern Province or in any other province in the country. I was privileged to visit the Eastern Province the other week and the situation was not any better than it is in the Northern Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: The people in Sinda are crossing the border to work for food in Mozambique, and that is the truth. Lundazi is not spared either.

Mr Chairperson, I think that the remedy lies in the fact that we must, as hon. Members of Parliament, push for a Supplementary Budget to address the issue of the looming hunger in the nation.

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: There should be no partisan approach to this issue. We should all support this arrangement so that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning can be enabled to give the appropriate ministry enough money to purchase the much-needed farming inputs.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: Mr Chairperson, the second point I would like to look at is the provincial administration in the Northern Province. Nothing can be achieved unless all of us hon. Members of Parliament, including the hon. Ministers, give as much support as possible to the current Provincial Minister.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: He deserves to be supported as he cannot work on his own. As a human being, he gets frustrated at times and fails to tour all the districts in the province.

Hon. MMD Member: He is MMD.

Major Chibamba: It is even better for you MMD to show a good example because he too is MMD

Mr Chimbaka: Uzinvela, Mangani.

Major Chibamba:  There is nothing that will be achieved in the Northern Province. The Province is reeling from a lot of problems, especially, lack of basic social amenities.

Hon Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba:  Mr Chairperson, I would like to talk about my constituency before I forget. There is absolutely nothing that we have received in Shiwang’andu Constituency except from the Ministry of Local Government and Housing and the Ministry of Education. However, I also want to acknowledge the fact that the hon. Minister of Community Development and Social Welfare is trooping in. I do not know what is happening with the rest. They appear to be sleeping. This situation is most unacceptable. The kind of development, especially, in terms of road infrastructure that is taking place in the Northern Province is lopsided. I do not know where some Government officials have got the idea that only districts in the northern and the eastern direction of the province are to be attended to. There is not a single road in Chinsali District that is being attended to.

Hon. Opposition Member: No, there is nothing.

Major Chibamba: I was getting stuck when I was touring my constituency. Yet, if you look at the districts in the northern part - I am referring to Isoka, Nakonde, Mbala and Mpulungu - there is development taking place there. That is the truth of the matter.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba:  I would like to say, Mr Chairperson, that unless there is equitable distribution of national wealth, …

Mr Sichamba: On a point of order, Sir

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichamba: Thank you, Mr Chairperson. I rarely rise on points of order. Is the hon. Member who is debating so well in order to mislead the House that the northern districts in the Northern Province are being attended to, and yet all the districts are suffering the same fate as all the projects where under procurement. I need your serious ruling.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member for Shiwang’andu will take that point of order into account as he debates. You may, please, continue.

Major Chibamba: Mr Chairperson, I have a schedule of road projects with me here and I do not want to bother the Chair, but the fact speaks for itself.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba:  We are talking of Mporokoso, Senga Hill, Kawambwa, Kaputa, Nakonde/Isoka West, Nakonde/Mbala, Senga Hill/Lunte and so on. They are saying Chinsali to Serenje.

Mr Munaile: Nothing!

Major Chibamba:  There is nothing like Chinsali to Serenje. In between Serenje and Chinsali, there is Mpika. Therefore, it cannot be said that what I am saying in true. I am saying that there is a need for us to realise that the tribal wars ended many years ago.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba:  We cannot start reviving things that are long gone. If that is the premise on which people are basing the way they want to take development to the Northern Province, we shall all make contribution to our province and our country in general.

Safwa Bridge is completely forgotten. There is an old pontoon which was installed in the early forties just before the end of the Second World War.

Hon. Opposition Member: Pali ba Ntalasha.

Major Chibamba:  It is now non-functional.

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame!

Major Chibamba: I hope that the proposed bridge to link us to “our slaves” across the Luangwa River will materialise.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Major Chibamba, you will be misleading people, out there, who are listening. You do not have slaves across the Luangwa River.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue, please.

Major Chibamba: Mr Chairperson, I was implying that there are some people in the eastern direction of Chinsali who, actually, used to carry our bags and are still carrying our bags. Those are the ones I am referring to.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

Major Chibamba: There is a need for us to look at the projects which were proposed last year. The hon. Minister Works and Supply advised that in 2008, two capital projects would be done, that is, the Kasama-Mporokoso-Kaputa Road and Mbesuma Bridge. Currently, there is nothing to that effect. Like I said, I would like to thank the hon. Minister of Education, Professor Lungwangwa, because there is some indication in the Budget allocation for the Ministry that some schools may be attended to.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: I have no doubt that it will be done. I would also like to appeal to the rest of the hon. Ministers except the hon. Minister of Science and Technology …

Laughter

Major Chibamba: … I think I will forgive him because he has problems with the Evelyn Hone College.

Laughter

Major Chibamba: For now, we will put him in abeyance.

However, Hon. Dr Chituwo, Minister of Health, will be on hand to look at what we are talking about and so will Hon. Konga. We come from the same source. Could he, please, rise to the occasion and ensure that we get some lights of some kind. Development will not be achieved if only the Central Province is being electrified.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: It is not fair because all of us must go to the NCC.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: We must go to the NCC, ostensibly, to push for inclusion of a clause on equity …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: … in the new Constitution. There is no way anybody can stand up and say the economy is improving in our country. The economy is not improving in Kalabo, Lundazi, Chinsali, Dundumwezi and everywhere.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: The economy is seen to be improving here in Lusaka …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: … and the Central Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: Lest I am misunderstood, …

Mr Sichamba: On a point of order, Sir.

Major Chibamba: … the President of this country …

Mr Sichamba: On a point of order, Sir.

Major Chibamba: Let me finish.

… has been open in terms of development. He does not see that this province does not belong to Zambia. He issues instructions which I follow very well and I would like to congratulate him for that. Hon. Ministers, you are the implementers of the Presidential directives. Can you, please, do something about it? What can stop you from going to Chinsali? I am sure you can. Look at the so-called Great North Road.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chibamba: Sir, the reams on my car are bent.

Laughter

Mr V. Mwale: Munagula ku Gabtam!

Major Chibamba: Yes, because it is heavily potholed. Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, please, extend your good hand to the people of Chinsali and Shiwang’andu Constituency, in particular.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The hon. Member’s time is over.

Mr Sichamba (Isoka East):

The Deputy Chairperson: Mr Speaker, I thank you for according me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Floor of the House. From the onset, I must state that I support the Vote.

In so doing, I would like to echo what my other colleagues have said from the Northern Province and take Hon. Munaile’s words as my own.

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Sir, I would like to start with the Budget line for the Northern Province and I think most of my colleagues have talked about it. For years now, the Budget line for the Northern Province has been very bad. My appeal is that the Budget line for the province should be increased because that is the only way we can achieve better results.

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: Of course, we have a number of problems from the Northern Province. Suffice it to say that it is not very good to start washing dirty linen in public. I would like to state from the outset that the status for all the districts in the province is the same. That is why it is not correct to say the northern part of the province is not receiving as good a share.

Mr Chairperson, if we talk about the issue of ambulances from the Ministry of Health, we will notice that they have been distributed to all the districts. They were not segregating when distributing these ambulances.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: I expect my big man, who is a national leader, to harmonise the situation so that we learn from him because he has been in the system for a long time.

Sir, I would like to simply say that the Budget allocation for the Northern Province has been stagnant for years. We have advocated for an increase in the Budget line for the province in many forums to no avail. Therefore, I am appealing to the able hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to unlock the resources for the Northern Province. In our area, we simply say, umwena akakumizyoka …

Ms Namugala: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: This means that someone would come from somewhere to solve the problem. It does not require a man from the Northern Province to become Minister for the Province. There have been hon. Ministers from the Northern Province, but they have not performed. Show us that you are able to unlock the resources in the Northern Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichamba: I would also like to comment on energy. We have not been spared from the power outages, but I would like to appreciate the good policies of the Government. The master plan which has been mentioned on the Floor of this House reflects good planning. However, I am appealing to the hon. Minister of Energy and Water Development that the projects which have been running in the Province for a long time should be attended to. There are areas in Nakonde such as Chieftainess Nawaitwika’s Palace that have not been electrified to date. In Chief Kafundi’s area, the trenches are still there. In Chambeshi …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! We are consulting loudly. Please, let us do it quietly. Continue.

Mr Sichamba: Mr Chairperson, the transformer which was left at Chambeshi sometime back was taken there by Group 5. To date, the transformer has not been put to use. Through you, we appeal to the people in Chambeshi to, at least, start accessing the power which used to be there. 

Mr Sichamba drank some water.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Sichamba: Mr Chairpeson, I would like to also echo the issue that Dr Machungwa stated. In the Northern Province, there is the Nakonde Border Post. The fuel that is moved from Nakonde to Lusaka is a finished product.

Interruptions

Mr Sichamba: Sir, I am still on the Ministry of Energy and Water Development. We appeal to the hon. Minister to create a reservoir at Kalonje in Mpika. This will be cheaper because we shall be drawing fuel from the Northern Province, and not moving it from Nakonde to Lusaka.  We, therefore, appeal to your able office to help us do that.

Mr Chairperson, let me also talk about tourism and I want to be very specific. Tourism is something that is very important. The Head of State mentioned that he will try to revisit the issue of tourism in the Northern Province. The Northern Province is part of Zambia which is blessed with a lot of natural resources. In the Northern Province, there is potential that is not exploited. We therefore appeal to the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources to invest in tourism in the Northern Province. There should be tax concessions. Tax should be reduced to enable people build lodges there. That will help us a lot.

Mr Chairperson, already, we can hear stories that the Northern Province is not secure. How do we say that when there are people living in Mwange and Mporokoso. The fact that there are people there means that the province is very secure. Therefore, I urge the hon. Minister to remove some taxes so that many investors can find their way to the Northern Province.

Mr Chairperson, I would also like to talk about the issue of timber. I wish to inform the hon. Minister that timber in Isoka is being misused. I am saying so because all the five districts namely; Chinsali, Mpika, Nakonde, Isoka and Mbala have been encroached by Tanzanian nationals. The Tanzanians are getting the expensive timber from the trees we have protected for so many years.

Mr Chairperson, this timber is transported to Tanzania and we are not collecting any revenue therefrom. Nobody knows how the movement of this timber is monitored. There are officers on the ground, but they are immobile. The hon. Minister should try to capacitate these officers so that at the end of the day, they can start monitoring the timber. It is not only timber which is exploited, but also charcoal. From Mbala to Nakonde, you will find that the charcoal which is produced there being transported to Saudi Arabia. This charcoal is exported for other activities. Therefore, we really need to see how we can arrest the situation. Let us be on the ground.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to state that in the Northern Province, the Budget line should be increased because the people rely only on agriculture. If the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning unlocks the resources to agriculture, especially in the Northern Province, it will go a long way. There are other industries which have been killed in the Northern Province. There is the Mbesuma State Ranch which has been there for sometime. The infrastructure at the Mbesuma State Ranch, where cattle restocking was supposed to be taking place is dilapidated.

Sir, the Budget line for the Northern Province is K400 million. This amount of money is insufficient to revitalise the Mbesuma State Ranch. Through you, hon. Minister, we appeal that you increase the money to the Northern Province. At the end of the day, this Mbesuma State Ranch would be revamped. Not only that, the Chambeshi Plains which are there are very good for cattle rearing and other activities. People will benefit from there. That will be feeding the Northern Province and also part of the Luapula Province. Maybe that will help us, as a people, from the Northern Province.

Mr Chairperson, on education, there is the infrastructure which is dilapidated. Last year, we heard, through the Provincial Development Co-ordinating Committee (PDCC), that we had schools and bridges which were dilapidated. The Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) is supposed to take care of these problems, but do they have enough funds to mitigate the impact of these issues I have raised? All we need is more resources to be thereto allocated. A disaster is a disaster. You should not wait for many years before ensuring that the disaster is attended to. In the district where I come from, last year, we also experienced floods and maybe only one bridge was damaged, but nothing has been done. Recently, we heard that through the…

Mrs Mwamba: On a point of order, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mrs Mwamba: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a very serious point of order. Is the hon. Member debating in order to continue debating in the manner that he is without emphasising and appealing to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to allocate more funds to Lukashya Trades Institute?

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I think the hon. Member is in order. Continue.

Laughter

Mr Sichamba: Mr Chairperson, I thank my sister for reminding me. That simply entails that we have a lot of infrastructure which needs attention. All we need is the increase of funds to the vote for the Northern Province.

Sir, the K4 billion for the Mbesuma Bridge has gone in vain. We, therefore, still appeal to you to appreciate that this bridge is very cardinal for the people of the Northern Province. Let us ensure that this bridge is constructed.

I would also like to appeal to the people of the Northern Province to work like national leaders. Considering some people in a manner that shows as if they are more important than others will just divide you for nothing. People will start looking at you as if you do not come from the Northern Province. When there are problems, let us fight those problems with concerted efforts.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Mr Chairperson, I would like to state from the outset that Copperbelt is the heart of Zambia’s economy. Everybody knows that on the Copperbelt, two industries, namely, the mines and Indeni Oil Refinery contribute more than 80 per cent in form of tax to the National Treasury. That entails a lot. Therefore, one wonders why the heart of Zambia’s economy is behind in terms of development. Why do we have such bad roads on the Copperbelt, and yet, it contributes more than 90 per cent of Zambia’s economy? It is shameful and unforgivable.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to talk about roads. We have some of the biggest investors in this country. However, roads in places such as Solwezi, in the North-Western Province are still an eyesore. This is a province where a lot of miners work under very difficult conditions to make money for Zambia, and after work, they have to travel on these bad roads with their motor vehicles that hardly last five months. I am requesting this Government to pay more attention to the areas where money comes from. These people need peace and comfort.

We have roads such as the Mufulira/Ndola Road on which investors carry a lot of copper ore from Mufulira to Ndola. The heavy truck loads of copper ore are ruining these roads and nobody is there to inspect the damage and control how much copper is carried on trucks. The Ministry of Works and Supply should check the damaged roads. They have ruined those roads and everybody is just looking on.

Mr Chairperson, we have been talking about social responsibilities in this House, but investors are the ones who are destroying the roads. Why do you not ask them to contribute a certain amount for road rehabilitation or better still ask them to maintain the roads they are using? The social responsibilities must be enshrined in their budgets annually. That is how it is supposed to be done. The Government has always been fed with false information of how much these investors are contributing in terms of social responsibilities. They are saying that they have done much in Ndola Central, where I come from, in terms of road maintenance, and yet nothing has been done. That is a shame. I am requesting officials in the respective Ministries to personally go and see what these investors are doing in terns of social responsibilities. Do not visit their work places, rather, visit their homes and see how much they are putting in.

They are very quick to write and tell you how much they have done to appease you because they know that you do not go there to check on what they have reported to you. They grade certain roads that were built some fifty years ago and then write to the Ministry or provincial offices telling them they have spent millions and millions of dollars in terms of social responsibilities, which is not true. I am, therefore, requesting the Government to check how much these companies are giving back to the community. This applies to all the towns on the Copperbelt, which have been neglected for more than five decades.

Interruptions

Mr Mushili: Mr Chairperson, the health sector on the Copperbelt has been neglected. We have big hospitals on the Copperbelt, namely; Ndola Central, Kitwe Central and some other mining hospitals in Chingola.

Mr Chairperson, Ndola Central Hospital, which I always talk about has five elevators that have never worked at the same time. At any given time, the maximum number of lifts that will be working is two. These are the lifts that carry bodies to the morgue on a daily basis. I have lamented for the past two years, but nothing has been done about it.

Linen is another matter of concern. I would like to request the hon. Minister of Health to make a programme to visit these hospitals and see the adverse conditions under which our patients are kept. These are the terrible conditions that you are afraid to be subjected to and the reason you opt to go outside the country for treatment.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: You are running away from such conditions. 
The smell in these hospitals is obnoxious. How do you expect operations in theatres to run smoothly if there is no water? All we need is a couple of boreholes. It does not cost much to buy generators or motors to maintain the boreholes to keep these health institutions healthy. Why is it so difficult to budget a very small amount of money to maintain such cheap equipment? That is total negligence. You do not care about the people. I am requesting the respective ministry to visit these institutions and see how much the people are suffering. Many people go in those hospitals with minor treatable diseases, but because of the state the hospitals are in, they come out with other illnesses. I am sure that the medical people understand this. There are many contagious diseases in our hospitals. 

Mr Chairperson, I would now like to talk about the provincial administration on the Copperbelt. Some people fail to differentiate between development and politics. I come from a background of business. When I talk about development, I mean development and not politics. I like to talk about politics when we are campaigning and not when people want to develop the province. Before I joined politics, little did I know that it was a very retrogressive element in development.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: It is so retrogressive that it retards progress. There is a lot of selfishness because politicians think that if a person does well, then all the credit will go to him. You never want to look at the benefits that the people will enjoy. You try to discredit someone because you are afraid that the credit will go to him alone. It is a shame. I am not only talking about different political parties, but also within the MMD. I know some cases of some hon. Ministers who are jealous of other hon. Ministers who have been working very hard.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: They discourage them and write a lot of reports against them. This is a shame in Africa and Zambia in particular because people do not want to deal with problems regarding development separately from politics. It is a shame!

Madam Chairperson, this is a House where we heard one hon. Member talking about what he had sourced outside the country. Politics wants to stop him from donating what he had got from outside because they feel that their party is going to lose popularity. This is a shame! Are you not going to be proud if your province, district or constituency starts enjoying such facilities? Will District Commissioner, a Provincial Minister or other leaders irrespective of their political affiliation not benefit? Let us talk about development. We should not bring politics into development issues because we are always going to remain behind.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: That is not leadership. Leadership means when you want to help the people, you offer yourself to help the people who are facing various problems. That is what we are here for. We are not here to enrich ourselves, but to help the people of Zambia, the people that we are living with, the under privileged. These are the people we are here for.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: Let us not use politics just for us to be recognised in our societies.

Our relationship at the provincial and district levels on the Copperbelt is not good. Therefore, there is a lot that needs to be done. When it comes to development, let us work together as one.

For instance, I feel pity when we talk about campaigns in Zambia. The money allocated to the Copperbelt alone is so little. Our hon. Minister is given very little money. He goes to Chifubu to campaign and starts cleaning the markets, quite okay. However, his office and the building where he operates from which is supposed to be looked after first before he can clean the carport which is outside is not clean. I cannot blame him. Probably, I put the blame on the people who give him that little amount of money. Leadership starts from yourself and not from outside. My request is that the Government should, please, allocate enough money to the Copperbelt. By doing that, some of the problems are going to be addressed. It is the Copperbelt which is raising the revenue. Therefore, we need the government to reciprocate.

Mr Chairperson, Ndola Airport is an International Airport, but it has a very small parking area.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili: They collect money, but it has filled up with potholes and water, but they are busy collecting money everyday. That is an international airport where investors are passing through everyday, but nobody wants to talk about it. We need your support, hon. Ministers of Works and Supply and Communication and Transport. We need that international airport to be upgraded, given the status that is its supposed to be given and have facilities which a an internationally recognised airport is supposed to have.

Mr Chairperson, last, but not the least, I would like to propose that – it is just an advisory note …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Member’s time has expired.

Before, I can ask anyone of you to speak, let me just update you on how far we have gone.

We have finished five provinces and are remaining with four more provinces and these are Central Province were we need two more speakers, the North Western Province, one more speaker, the Eastern Province, one more Speaker and the Copperbelt Province, one more speaker. Since we want to make progress, please do not debate what somebody who spoke earlier has already covered. You are not being forced to speak. I am, therefore, confident that all of you are capable of making your points in less than fifteen minutes. You do not need to go up to fifteen minutes.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Mr Chairperson, the last speaker was highlighting some of the concerns that we have on the Copperbelt. Therefore, I just would like to supplement the issues that have already been highlighted.

Mr Chairperson, for the past two years that I have been area Member of Parliament for Nkana, representative the noble people of Nkana, I have not seen any significant development come to the Copperbelt.

Mr Chairperson, the road infrastructure in Kitwe leaves much to be desired.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, we have roads such as the Central Street and Chibuluma Roads. It was decided that these two roads be used as by-pass roads for the trucks that transport equipment and copper concentrates to the mining industry on the Copperbelt. When I say Copperbelt, I include the North-Western Province as well. At the moment, there is a lot of traffic that is also proceeding into the Congo DR.

Mr Chairperson, this road is now impassable. As I speak, the road has now become a threat to people in this area. Any time a truck can tilt and kill innocent lives. I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Works and Supply to find time to visit this road. This is a very important road because it helps to transport machinery and precious copper that brings development to this country. It is important that the hon. Minister of Works and Supply finds time to identify roads that are key to the development of this nation so that these roads are attended to at all times. There should be routine maintenance to such roads so that the transporters do not complain.

Sir, a few days ago, I met a met a transporter who was parked along the Chibuluma Road and I was trying to ask him if we could …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! We do not seem to be listening. Let us consult quietly. We always advise likewise.

Mr Lubinda: Especially Mulongoti!

Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, actually, I am disappointed that it is hon. Ministers who seem to be…

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order! No!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: I am the only one who sees from this blanket point.

Could the hon. Member on the Floor, please, continue.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, I was saying that a few days ago, I met a transporter from South Africa whom I asked whether he could park his truck at a right place so that vehicles could pass freely. We later entered into a conversation. He asked me why our country was not so concerned about the maintaining the roads. He said it was a nightmare when they were told that they were coming to Zambia or the Congo DR. He said when they entered Zambia because the road network all the way from Livingstone up to Kasumbalesa was a nightmare to drive along this road.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Madam Chairperson, I would want to talk about health facilities in our country. There has been so much talk about the Vision 2030 on health. However, the health institutions in the country have not progressed an inch in terms of health delivery. Last year, when we were on recess, Hon. L. J. Mulenga lost his mother here in Lusaka around 2200 hours. Hon. L. J. Mulenga came to my home and I had to drive him all the way from Kitwe around 23 hours up to Lusaka. We arrived in Lusaka around 0400. Around 1100 hours we went to University Teaching Hospital (UTH), by 1200 hours we found the late body of Hon. L. J. Mulenga’s mother was still in the ward.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, by 1500 hours the time we were trying to transfer that body to the funeral home, we discovered that the body was still in the mortuary. That is the kind of service that we receive in these institutions. We need to be very serious when we are talking about the Vision 2030. In Kitwe, the population has outgrown, but we only have one hospital. Kitwe Central Hospital cannot contain the demand from the people in Kitwe. Our cry has always been that there be another hospital so that the spill over from Kitwe Central Hospital could be referred to this particular hospital.

Madam Chairperson, we had Nkana Hospital which was sold to the Chinese, and today, it is called the Sinozamu Hospital. This was a very important hospital. It was doing very well in the days of the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM).

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: It used to cater for not less than 2,000 people a day. Today, that hospital …

Mr Lubinda: The whole region.

Mr Mwenya: … only caters for ten, fifteen patients a day. Very few patients access medical services from this hospital. Why can this Government not consider a buyback so that we can renovate and rehabilitate this hospital and give it as a service to the Zambian people?

Hon. Members were making noise.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Please, hon. Members on my left, can you consult quietly.

Can you continue, please.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, the people are lacking health services. There is an area, for example, in my constituency, Kamakonde which is about ten kilometres away from the nearest health centre. There is Mugala which is about fifteen kilometres from the nearest health centre. Therefore, we are saying we need development. The hon. Minster of Health said there was an improvement in health service delivery, but we can never claim that there is improvement in health service delivery in this country, if we do not bring health services closer to the people.

Mr Lubinda: Move on.

Mr Mwenya: Mr Chairperson, we have experienced loss of lives on the Chingola/Chililabombwe Road on the Copperbelt,. It has been our cry on the Copperbelt that we need a dual carriage way, and not what is now being said that they are just going to expand the road on the sides. This road is also very important.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: The only way that this road is going to contribute adequately to the economy and to the so-much talked about GDP is only when we are able to turn this road into a duo carriage way to allow people, cars and trucks to travel freely and make the road safe.

Mr Chairperson, the hon. Minister on the Copperbelt, the Provincial Secretary and the Permanent Secretary are doing a commendable job.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: However, I would like to mention here that they still have a big challenge to unify us as Members of Parliament on the Copperbelt so that we are able to sit together and identify projects and supervise them together. We have not been able to sort out the issue of the Constituency Youth Development Fund because there are District Commissioners, who do not understand that we should not be partisan when it comes to the issues affecting the youths, women and the people in our constituencies.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes.

Mr Mwenya: I would like to advise the hon. Minister and the Permanent Secretary that it is important that we become transparent in the manner we identify projects in all areas. For the past two years, there has been so much concentration in areas where we have MMD hon. Members of Parliament.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about schools in my area. You will not believe it that in Nkana Constituency, a central constituency, there are still two, three, four schools, where there is no electricity. We are talking about electrification of these schools. To date, Buchikamitondo, the oldest township, has no water born toilets.

Mr Lubinda: Shame!

Mr Mwenya: I would like to urge the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to look into this matter.

Mr Lubinda: She is not listening.

Mr Mwenya: Unfortunately, the hon. Minister is not listening. I would love the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, …

Laughter

Mr Mwenya: … I know she is a very hard working woman, to look into this matter. We have seen how much she has fought to increase the CDF, but we are saying there is Buchikamitondo. The people of Buchikamitondo have told me that they want water born toilets. We cannot allow the status quo, a township in the middle of a city without water born toilets. This is a very serious situation because now the people do not have anywhere where they can erect a pit latrine.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Education that the schools in Kitwe, in general, do not have desks. The classrooms are very few, and hence are over crowded. A class will have more than 70-80 pupils, but very few desks. Most of the pupils sit on the floor. This cannot be allowed. I did appreciate the policy statement by the hon. Minister of Education that was very elaborate, ...

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: … but in reality what he said is not obtaining. We want to see it. We want our young boys and girls to sit in classes. We want to see our little boys and girls enjoy learning in an environment that is conducive. It is my sincere appeal to the hon. Minister of Education to consider giving loans to teachers so that they can start constructing houses. In the same vein, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing to speak to town clerks in all the councils to consider offering land to teachers so that they can start, in a small way, to construct their own houses.

Mr Lubinda: The hon. Minister of Lands also.

Mr Mwenya: That goes for the hon. Minister of Lands as well.

Mr Lubinda: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: Teachers receive meagre salaries despite being committed to their work. All the noble hon. Members of Parliament here went through the hands of a teacher. So it is important that we identify with them, support and assist them.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwenya: I would also like to appeal to the hon. Minister to reduce the backlog of trained teachers that are not employed. There are so many teachers who have been trained at Kitwe Teachers’ Training College and private teachers’ training colleges who are languishing in the villages and compounds. The Government only starts engaging them maybe two, three or four years after they have been trained. What can be expected of such teachers who are engaged after everything has “evaporated” from their heads? Therefore, it is important that these areas are considered.

I thank you very much, Sir.

Mr Kasoko (Mwembeshi): Mr Chairperson, today is a wonderful day because we are going home.

Laughter

Mr Kasoko: However, both the people on your right and left will be going home as sad people because the problems in the Central Province and in Mwembeshi in particular, are the problems the people on your right also have in their constituencies. On the other hand, they cannot speak because they have sweets in their mouths.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasoko: Now I am going to speak on their behalf.

Mr Chairperson, the floods this year have not spared any constituency in Zambia. Serenje, Mkushi, Kapiri Mposhi, Kabwe, Chibombo and Mumbwa Districts as well as Eastern, Southern, North-Western, Copperbelt, Luapula, Northern and Lusaka Provinces are all affected. I expected more hon. Members, even from your right, to talk about this, but, like I said, they cannot speak. The people on your left …

Ms Mulasikwanda: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Ms Mulasikwanda: Mr Chairperson, I rise on a point of order on the hon. Member of Parliament who is talking about floods affecting all the provinces. Is he in order to exclude the Western Province when he knows that the Western Province is the bed of the mighty Zambezi River? I need you serious ruling, Mr Chairperson.

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Kasoko, the hon. Minister wants you to mention the Western Province.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: You may want to include that.

You may continue.

Mr Kasoko: Mr Chairperson, the Western Province has not been spared, but I know my cousins are very happy because without heavy rains, there would be no Kuomboka Ceremony.

Laughter

Mr Kasoko: That is why, in the first place, I did not mention the North-Western Province.

Hon. Members: Western Province.

Mr Kasoko: I have now been in the House for six years going to seven. In this august House, we have been approving budgets every year, but I have not seen any improvement in the Central Province.

Mr Chairperson, Chisamba town today is a sorry sight. It has not changed from the way it was forty-three years ago.

Mr Muteteka: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muteteka: Mr Chairperson, I am listening to the debater very attentively. Is he in order to describe Chisamba as a disaster …

Laughter

Mr Muteteka: … when currently, we are constructing a mortuary…

Laughter

Mr Muteteka: … and we have finished constructing a clinic in Liteta Ward, are about to complete constructing another clinic in Mwembeshi; the bridge is almost complete; the grader is on the road at the moment and the silos are full of food? Is he is order to say Chisamba is a sorry sight? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! This is interesting, but I suppose maybe you are speaking about the same matter from different angles.

Therefore, the hon. Member may continue.

Mr Kasoko: Mr Chairperson, going to Chisamba through the airport road, one can see how damaged the road is. I will spare my brother (pointing at Mr Muteteka).

Mr Chairperson, for the last five years in the Budget, we have been approving money to work on the main road in Mwembeshi Constituency, the D 534. Even in last year’s Budget there was K500 million for the rehabilitation of this road, but it went back to the Treasury as part of the K900 billion that was returned to the Treasury. Unused money …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Let us listen.

Mr Kasoko: Mr Chairperson, that money has not been used for the intended purpose. Presently, the D 534 road is cut-off completely. We were in the constituency last Friday with the hon. Provincial Minister who was proceeding to Mumbwa. He failed to use that road because it is cut-off completely. Buses which go to the Blue Lagoon in Nangoma and the people en route to Shibuyunji or Shachele are no longer using that road. They have to go through the tarmac turn-off from Stumbeko up to Chimbotela. They cannot go beyond that place as the only good road is from Stumbeko to Chimbotela. The main road, D 534, has not been worked on by that Government for the last decade. We approve money every year here but this road has not been worked on. All that the Government does is make promises all the time.

Mr Chairperson, we want the Government, this year around, to work on this road. If it does not work on this road, I am capable of bringing cadres …

Laughter

Mr Kasoko: … from my constituency to State House to make noise. I am capable and the hon. Members on your right will see.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasoko: Mr Chairperson, Road 183 …

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order! We seem to be debating through points of order. I will allow the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to make his point of order, but for now, that will be the last point of order I will allow.

You can make your point of order, hon. Minister.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Mr Chairperson, I rarely rise on points of order, but I have been incited to rise on one. Is the hon. Member of Parliament, Hon. Kasoko, in order to  inciting chaos at State House without seeking a police permit first?

Laughter 

The Deputy Chairperson: That point of order makes it very difficult for the Chair to make a ruling, but, please, get a permit before you take your cadres there

Please, continue.

Laughter

Mr Kasoko: Mr Chairperson, for the last few years, we have been approving money for the Road D183. This is from Situmbeko via Chanshika-Pumangoma to Shachele Road, but again that money, has not worked.

Mr Mabenga: Why?

Mr Kasoko: You can check in the Yellow Book, it went back to the Treasury.

Mrs Musokotwane: Shame!

Mr Kasoko: Also the money for Road 182, this is Haamaundu-Mukulaikwa-Shachele up to D534 Road has not worked too.

Mr Chairperson, let me now talk about bridges. In Mwembeshi, three quarters of the bridges have been washed away. We need you people to come in and work on the bridges. We have seen money in the Yellow Book for this purpose, bring it. This time around, we are not going to leave you go Scot free, it will be war because we are working together here.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! There will be no war in here. Please, continue, but withdraw the use of the word “war”. We do not want war.

The hon. May continue.

Mr Kasoko: Mr Chairperson, I withdraw the word “war”. We will push you to see that the bridges are constructed in the constituency.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about irrigation. The former hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives danced here because of the success of irrigation in the last five years. Unfortunately, in Mwembeshi, it has not taken any roots. There is nothing.

Since 1964 only one School in Mwembeshi was built by the Government. All the schools there have been constructed by the community. From the time they were built, they have not been renovated. However, let me thank the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), from Hon. Magande’s office, which has started assisting the poor people of Mwembeshi Constituency.

Mr Magande: That is Government money.

Mr Kasoko: Please, increase it so that the people can also look like those who are in town.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasoko: Mr Chairperson, let me talk about animal diseases in Mwembeshi.

Mr D. Mwila: On a point of order, Sir!

Mr Deputy Chairperson: I ruled that no more points of order until we come back from dinner.

Can you continue.

Mr D. Mwila: Alright!

Mr Kasoko: Animals are dying in Mwembeshi because of lack of medicines, dip tanks, dams and lack of veterinary officers who are supposed to inject them.

Hon. Members: Laughter!

I urge the Government to start gaming and also start constructing dip tanks in Mwembeshi.

Mr Chairperson, in Mwembeshi, like I said, the floods have affected the people. They have not done anything in terms of agriculture. All the fields went with the rain waters. At the moment, the people are seated in the hills, and I am sure Hon. Dr Chituwo passed through Mwembeshi three days ago to see what was happening.

The Deputy Chairperson: We are consulting very loudly. Can you, please, be quiet.

The hon. May continue.

Mr Kasoko: The Government only provided few tents for less than twenty families and yet there are more than 700 people who are displaced because of the floods. As I am talking to you, the waters are still coming from Itezhi-tezhi Dam. As a result, the people are on the islands while others are in the hills.

My appeal to the Government is that they provide tents and food because the people have no food. Through you, Sir, I would like to inform the hon. Provincial Minister that in our district, we are in a mess. The money that the Government releases for the districts is not working in Mwembeshi and Nangoma.

Mr Mabenga: Where has it gone?

Mr Kasoko: They are using that money in one constituency and that is Mumbwa Central Constituency.

Mr Chairperson, let me talk about livestock restocking. The last five years and this year, the livestock restocking exercise has only been extended to MMD Constituency Chairman and officials.

Interruptions

Mr Kasoko: Mr Chairperson, my message to our hon. Provincial Minister is that he investigates and I know he will find the truth and nothing, but the truth.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasoko: The other colleague who stood up to speak on behalf of the Central Province talked about the fertiliser under the Fertiliser Support Programme. In Mumbwa District, more than 50 per cent of the people who are benefiting are agricultural officers. They have formed co-operatives and are getting the fertiliser. If the former Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, who is bedridden now heard this, he would confirm it because there is evidence to prove it. Therefore, hon. Minister for Central Province, please, help us so that other people can also benefit from the programme.

Mr Kasoko: Mr Speaker, regarding the issue of the cement plant which our friends from Korea want to erect between Mwembeshi and Nangoma, we agree with that development. However, where they want to erect it is right in the village. The Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development have given these people 325 hectares out of the 962 and half acres of the village. You cannot do that because the people will be displaced. Where will you take the people? Already we have been affected by consolidated farms that are growing sugar. Very soon Universa Mining are opening a steel plant in Mwembeshi and already the people are affected. Therefore, the land you have given to your colleagues for the cement plant is too much. Please, reduce it.

People out there gave you a 100 per cent vote in 1991 and in 1996. Do not sideline them.

Mr Shakafuswa interjected.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Do not engage him.

Please, continue.

Mr Kasoko: Council workers should let the people, the owners of the land, to settle nicely. We cannot accept that the people are not looked after properly.

The Deputy Chairperson: The hon. Member’s time has expired.!

Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the Vote for the North-Western Province.

Before I start my debate, may I take time to thank my brothers who have contributed on this Vote and raised very pertinent issues concerning the people of the North-Western Province.

Mrs Musokotwane: Hanjika!

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katuka: Mr Chairman, I do appreciate the fact that the North-Western Province is the new Copperbelt and that cannot be disputed. The reference to the North-Western Province as the Cinderella Province is long gone.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Katuka: This is because the economic activities in the mining industry now are all focused on the North-Western Province.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katuka: Mr Chairman, this Government has marketed the North-Western Province so much that there has been a serious influx of people from all over the country. There are jobseekers, robbers, prostitutes, you name them.

Laughter

Mr Katuka: Wherever there is growing economic activity, there are side effects associated with that. Mr Chairperson, there is no doubt that these mining activities have improved the social and economic factors for certain people. However, for the people of the North-Western Province, I have not seen any development.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. MMD Members: Aah, then you are blind.

Mr Katuka: Mr Chairman, as I have said, my brothers have already spoken at length on this Vote and I will try to dwell on two points only.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katuka: Mr Chairperson, the influx of both local and international job seekers has resulted in lack of accommodation for the people. At the moment, low income workers cannot afford to pay for their accommodation. The rentals are high; the cost of living generally is very high and not affordable to the common man. All this is due to the activities in the North-Western Province.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katuka: Mr Chairperson, there is also the worrying issue of the HIV/AIDS pandemic. As you may be aware, the province has the lowest HIV infection and prevalence rate, but now we are catching up ...

Laughter

Mr Katuka: … due to the economic activities taking place.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Katuka: Mr Chairperson, we have not been spared. We need the Government to address this issue.

Laughter

Mr Katuka: Mr Chairperson, I wish to address one very sensitive and controversial issue of the road network in the North-Western Province. It is sad. I remember that last year, all hon. Members of Parliament from the Province were summoned by the hon. Minister of Works and Supply. That meeting was basically to go and agree that we do away with rehabilitating the feeder roads so that we concentrate on the two major roads in the Province, and this we all agreed.

Last year, the Budget had K800 billion for road rehabilitation and this year it has increased to K1.2 billion. Sadly, last year, the Mutanda/Chavuma had K20 billion and the Mutanda/Mwinilunga had K47 billion. When now the Budget has increased, the allocation has reduced. I do not know why. I do not know where this arithmetic is coming from because from K47 billion, it has been reduced to K15 billion. When that K47 billion was meant to cover a distance of 100km, the K15 billion is meant for a distance of 189 km. I do not see how this works.

Mr Chairperson, the people of the North-Western Province have been negelected long enough. The Mwinilunga/Solwezi Road took more than twenty years to construct. The Mutanda/Chavuma has taken over twenty years. This current Government came into power when that project had …

____________

ANNOUNCEMENT

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I have a short announcement to make. I wish to inform the House that the following arrangements have been made for dinner this evening.

(i) dinner for all hon. Members will be served in the National Assembly Restaurant here at the Parliament buildings.

(ii) dinner for Members of Staff and the Government officials will be served at the National Assembly Motel.

(iii) dinner will be provided, courtesy of the Hon. Mr Speaker; and

(iv) dinner break will be from 2000 hours to 2100 hours. Hon. Members are required to be seated in the Chamber by 2100 hours. All Whips are requested to ensure that a quorum is formed at 2100 hours.

I thank you.
__________

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Business was suspended from 1956 hours until 2100 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]

Mr Katuka: Mr Chairperson, business was suspended, I was talking about the road network in the North-Western Province. I was saying that our road network is not complicated like in other provinces because we only have two major roads, but our cry has been the lack of tarring of the two roads for many years.

When we were invited to the Ministry by the hon. Minister of Works and Supply, we are agreed that we do away with rehabilitating the feeder roads because of the limitation in the resource envelope. We wanted all the money to be directed to these two major roads. To my surprise, the Budget has been reduced even further. I have failed to see the logic for reducing the Budget allocation. I have a clip of The Post Newspaper which came out when we just came into Parliament in 2006, and with your permission, I would like to quote therefrom. It reads:

 “Works and Supply Minister Kapembwa Simbao …”

Hon. Members: We do not quote from newspaper cuttings!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The guidance is that you cannot quote from a newspaper cutting, but from a complete newspaper. Please, use the full paper.

Interruptions

Mr Katuka: I thank you for your guidance.

Sir, I was saying that in December 2006, after inspecting the roads in North-Western Province, the hon. Minister acknowledged that the Mwinilunga-Solwezi Road was in a deplorable state and would not continue for another one year in its state. He further promised that the Mutanda-Chavuma Road would be worked on in the next three years, but I can see that two years have passed and there is only a year to go. The chances of completing the works on this road within the next one year are very slim. Therefore, I do not see this road rehabilitated even up to 2011.

Mr Chairperson, I am disappointed because even after giving the MMD Government 99.9 per cent votes in the previous elections, this Government has ignored the people of the North-Western Province.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katuka: As if that were not enough, for the first time, the North-Western Province has four hon. Ministers and four Deputy Ministers in that Government, but this problem is still standing.

Sir, may I now address the issue of health. The Government has a mission statement and an obligation to provide quality health care for the people of Zambia, including the people of the North-Western Province. However, no good or tangible effort is being made in taking this line. I will cite a good example of the worst frustration that can ever be faced by a donor.

Mr Chairperson, Luwi Mission Hospital at Ntambo in Mwinilunga East Constituency, where the Government has not constructed a hospital since independence, was constructed at a cost of over US$300,000 million by a donor. The infrastructure is intra-modern, but it lacks electricity. The donor is only asking for electricity from this Government. The equipment and buildings are there, but the Government has failed to supply electricity to the hospital. It has been three years down the line since an application was made. They have failed to give power or provide a standby generator to this hospital. I remember at one time, it was quoted in the newspapers that the hon. Minister for North-Western Province had announced that Kansanshi Mine had donated a generator. To date, that generator is nowhere to be seen. Now, we cannot approach them because when I asked the hon. Minister, he said, “Why can you not see them yourself?”

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Who said that?

Mr Katuka: The hon. Minister for the North-Western Province.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Katuka: Mr Chairperson, as though that were not enough, in my constituency, a rural health centre is being manned by the Chief’s wife because of lack of trained medical personnel. The way we respect our chiefs, there is no way anybody can wake the chief’s wife up at night to run that rural health centre.

Laughter

Mr Katuka: I am reminding the hon. Minister that I have written to the Permanent Secretary and copied the letter to him, but nothing has been done to date.

Sir, I would also like to comment on the issue of the Fertiliser Support Programme, but before I come to that, let me talk about the funding for the Ministry of Health. This year, the Budget allocation for the Ministry of Health is K1.5 trillion. This is a huge amount. My appeal to the hon. Minister is that he should ensure that this money goes to its intended purpose. He could be sitting in the top office without knowing what is happening on the ground. I am, therefore, appealing to him to check on his Procurement Department to know where this money goes.

Interruptions

Mr Katuka: Mr Chairperson, in conclusion, I implore this Government to clearly define their policies on matters of development.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Katuka: From what I have said, including what I have not mentioned here, the present Entrepreneurship Programme that the Government is carrying out is based on try and error. In most cases, the local people of the North-Western Province do not have anything tangible to refer to in terms of personal benefits from the developments taking place. The poor road infrastructure, poor health facilities and lack of energy power throughout the rural districts, all point to total negligence on the part of this Government. The poor agricultural policies in the implementation of the Fertiliser Support Programme are adding insult to injury.

Mr Chairperson, my timely warning to my colleagues in the ruling party from the North-Western Province is that the people of that province are keenly watching to see what this Government will do in the remaining three years. The year 2011 is coming and it will not be easy for them. We are patiently waiting. 

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Chairperson, my debate will not take long because whatever I will say has already been said. I take whatever has been said in this House as my own.

Mr Chairperson, there is only one point which I would like to echo. Nobody has talked about this matter. We are talking about projects, problems and everything else from our constituencies, but we are forgetting to talk about the people who are supposed to deliver, the civil servants. Civil servants are the people who are supposed to deliver these services in our respective constituencies.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Sir, if the hon. Provincial Ministers do not get along very well with these officers in their respective provinces, they sit on these developments and we watch them do so. Therefore, I am asking the hon. Provincial Ministers to get along very well with their Permanent Secretaries in their offices. When money has been sent from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, it must reach the end user who is at the district level.

Sir, in most cases, this money can come from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, but when it reaches the Permanent Secretary’s office, it does not filter down to the end user. They will always say it is because of the Zambia National Tender Board, meanwhile the Member of Parliament is waiting for development.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Chairperson, I have a feeling that the Provincial Administration should tighten up the bolts to make sure that the Permanent Secretaries and their staff perform. When the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning is talking, we always roast him and yet he may not be the cause of the non-development. The cause may be the Civil Service. Therefore, there is a need for those who are charged with the responsibility to supervise the Civil Service to make sure that the money reaches the end user.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister for Southern Province (Mr Munkombwe): Mr Chairperson, may I first of all thank the President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for nominating me to Parliament and subsequently appointing me Minister for Southern Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, he has given me an opportunity to serve the people of Zambia and the people of the Southern Province, in particular. When all is said and done, I hope to justify his confidence in me through my performance.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, let me also say what a pleasure it is to serve under the guidance of one of the most distinguished sons of Zambia, the Speaker of the National Assembly, Mr Mwanamwambwa, MP.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Sir, he is a man of enormous and rich experience, having served our country at the United Nations, at the Zambia National Tourist Board, as Minister of Legal Affairs, Minister of Information and Broadcasting and Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries, as it was called then. He has brought a great wealth of experience which can at best be surpassed by very few.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, his guidance to this House speaks volumes and that is why he enjoys so much respect in the Commonwealth Parliament and in the SADC region.

Mr Chairperson, may I also pay tribute to the Deputy Speaker, Mrs Mutale Nalumango, MP, who has had an equally good career as a teacher, trade unionist and Government Minister.

Sir, the Deputy Chairperson of Committees who is yourself, equally deserves my heartfelt commendation.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, as the country and the House may know, he rose from a humble position to senior civil servant, diplomat and Chief of Protocol at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

Sir, let me also give deserved accolades to the hard working Clerk of the National Assembly, Mrs Doris Mwinga …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: … for the service she continues to render to this Parliament together with her staff. I look forward to benefiting from her as she continues to write her way into the history books as the first female Clerk of the National Assembly of Zambia.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, may I also congratulate His Honour the Vice-President, Mr Ruphiah Banda. He is an all-weather politician, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: … Leader of Government Business in the House and personal friend of mine. He is also a personal friend of my family. I congratulate all hon. Ministers and all Members of the Opposition. I have come to join a House which is so rich with eminent people. I thank them all.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, may I recall with nostalgia that I was hon. Member of Parliament for eighteen years.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Sir, this is from 1973 to 1991. In this regard, therefore, I am not a stranger to Government activities.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, I served as hon. Minister of State in the Ministry of Agriculture, the Ministry of Tourism and Ministry of Lands and Water Development, as it was called then.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Sir, I also served as the first hon. Minister of Decentralisation which is now Ministry of Local Government and Housing as a Cabinet Minister.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Sir, I also served as Cabinet Minister for Southern Province and therefore, I regard this appointment as a continuation of that service.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, I can only promise to do my very best to work with people and at the same time, help the President achieve the kind of legacy that he must be remembered for long after he leaves office.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, I am very proud of what the MMD Government has achieved so far. However, all of us on the right and left side of the House must agree that this is not enough.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: That is why we must remain firmly committed to doubling our efforts …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: …in all fields in order to achieve greater heights. Development depends on resources and plans. That is why there is a Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP) and Vision 2030 that clearly spell out where we want this country to be at the end of the planned period.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Chairperson, the return to central planning is a cheerful development …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Let us listen.

Mr Munkombwe: …which has been positively received by Zambians all over the country. We know that plans and visions alone are not enough. They have to be translated into implementation and action. Our country has remained an oasis of peace and stability and it is the envy of many countries in Africa and around the world. This peace and stability has not come by accident. The people of Zambia and their leaders have worked for it. They will not forgive us if we miss this chance. That is why peace and stability should not be taken for granted. We have learnt from history, some of it very recent, what can happen when instability and chaos visit a country. We must all swear not to allow that to happen to mother Zambia …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Munkombwe: …for which our people have sacrificed so much and for so little.

Mr Chairperson, let me state further that we live in a great country and by working together, we can make it even greater. The people’s expectations are understandably high. Let us not tire of working hard so that our future generations, when they look upon this era, will say with satisfaction and pride that this was, indeed, our finest hour.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Let us remember that regardless of our differences, be they real or perceived, we must always put the country first.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: No Zambian can receive any greater honour than to be rewarded with the responsibility of serving one’s country, once more, which I am doing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

 Mr Munkombwe: Let us turn despair into hope, disappointment into a bright promise for tomorrow and doubt into self belief and confidence. Let us put the negative attitudes aside.

Mr Chairperson, the major programme for the Southern Province is agriculture.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: We want to work together and nobody will be excluded.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: It is everybody’s responsibility to return the Southern Province to the food basket of the country.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: We have irrigation and resettlement schemes. Hon. Sakwiba Sikota talked about roads linking districts that have to be repaired.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: I can proudly stand here and say that if I am coming from Kasamu, Chikankata up to Changa, I can join the Bottom Road.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: If I am coming from Monze via Chitongo, up to Ndema, I can join Namwala District. If I am coming from Kalomo to Mapatizya, and down to Siampondo, I can join Sinazongwe District.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: I am amply qualified to lead and I will lead everybody, including hon. UPND Members of Parliament.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: I will lead the councillors wherever they may be because development has no political colour.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: I hope that they will respect me by not talking against my Government because the policies that are working, at least for now, belong to the MMD.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: They belong to the MMD and I will use those policies. Together, for a given project, I will ride in Hon. David Matongo’s vehicle and start work on it.

Mr Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister for Copperbelt Province (Mr Mbulakulima): Mr Chairperson, I would like to thank you for this opportunity to wind up debate on my Province.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Let us listen or we shall miss out.

Mr Mbulakulima: It is especially pleasing to speak after a veteran has spoken, as Hon. Mubika Mubika said, “ema veteran aya” …

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: However, before I respond …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Minister, what does ema veterans aya means? …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Can you tell us what that means?

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, these are renowned people.

Before I respond to the concerns raised by the hon. Members of Parliament for Copperbelt, and indeed, the silent majority, allow me to give a brief background and some highlights of my Province, from yesteryear, to date and where we are going tomorrow.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, I was reminded of the limitation in time and I replied that there was no need for me to go into details because the budget has been heavily supported.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: It would be like kicking a door that is already open.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: However, during break time, I was reminded by Hon. Cifire that the presentation and the speech must be as short as a miniskirt …

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: …but good enough to cover the essentials.

Laughter

Hon. MMD Members: You are looking at her miniskirt?

Laughter{mospagebreak}

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, the Copperbelt Province is the second smallest province next to Lusaka, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Hon. Minister the paper may be covering the microphone.

Mr Mbulakulima: …covering an area of 31,328 square kilometres. Administratively, the province is divided into ten districts, with twenty-two constituencies, covering a population of 1,581,221, the highest in the country. Of this population, 799,402 are male and 781,819 are female of which 44.1 per cent are below the age of fifteen, resulting in a median age of eighteen. Therefore, the Province continues to have a young population with a potential to grow many years to come. Most of the inhabitants live in the seven urban districts that are highly populated compared to the three rural districts.

Traditionally, the Province has heavily depended on mining activities for the growth of the economy. Understanding very well that copper is a waste asset, the Province has diversified to other economic activities to ensure continuity in economic growth. These economic activities are agriculture and its related activities, tourism, gemstone mining, forestry and manufacturing. Suffice to say, the Province will not neglect mining as it still remains the major economic activity and contributes over 80 per cent of the country’s foreign earnings.

In the quest to reduce poverty, the Province will continue with its diversification programme that is expected to have a multiplier effect on the economic growth of the Province. To ensure food security in the Province, the Province will pursue vigorously, programmes such as the Copperbelt Support Programme, the Fertilizer Support Programme and the Programme Against Malnutrition that specifically deals with agricultural-related programmes aimed at assisting vulnerable, but viable farming communities.

With the booming mining activities in the Province and following the creation of the Multi-facility Economic Zone in Chambishi, the Konkola Deep Project in Chililabombwe that is expected to be completed in 2010, as it is being implemented in phases, the completion of the new Nchanga Smelter in Chingola, the launching of two mining projects, namely Chambishi West Ore Body Project in Kalulushi and Milyashi Mine in Luanshya and the re-opening of the Mokambo Mine in Mufulira. It is therefore, not an exaggeration to state that the Province has claimed back its once lost glory of being an economic giant and is significantly contributing to the economic growth of the country.

Sir, as a Province, we appreciate the Government’s process of reviewing both the mining policy and Mines and Minerals Act to bring them in line with the changing mining environment and, of course, the recently announced adjustment in the Mining Tax Regime.

Sir, on the social aspect, the Province appreciates the need for people, especially youths, to engage in social activities that would enable them refrain from illicit activities. To realise this dream, the Province has benefited from the gesture of the mining giants, Konkola Copper Mine Plc (KCM) that took an undertaking and sponsored the football league dubbed ‘KCM Football League’ in which many Copperbelt-based football clubs participated and was finally won by the Ndola-based ZESCO United Football Club.

Further, I would like to pay tribute to the Luanshya Copper Mines for the support they are rendering   to the Copperbelt community in sports and other social sectors. The Province has seen the beginning of the construction of an ultra modern stadium in Ndola with a sitting capacity of about 40,000.

Sir, HIV/AIDS whose prevalence rate stands at 20 per cent remains a thorn in the flesh of the Province. Copperbelt, being a youthful Province, has a challenge of finding ways and means of mitigating HIV/AIDS in order to protect the youths who are in the reproductive and productive age and are key to fostering economic development in the Province.

Sir, in an effort to address HIV/AIDS related issues, many Non- Governmental organisations (NGOs), private, parastatals as well as Government institutions are involved in various activities aimed at reducing the impact of HIV/AIDS. The provincial administration has not been left out and has since enabled the Province develop a workplace policy to be launched this year. The workplace policy will enable the Province develop a strategy that shall be used to mitigate the HIV/AIDS impact. There is a need, therefore, to double our efforts in order to reduce the prevalence rate, especially among the youths.

Mr Chairperson, the Copperbelt Province, which operates under the Office of the President, draws its mandate from the Government Gazette Notice No. 3925, Statutory Instrument No. 46 of 1992.

The mission statement for the Province is, and I quote:

“To effectively and efficiently promote and co-ordinate sustainable development in the Province in order to ensure quality and timely service delivery to the community in a transparent, accountable and equitable manner.”

Sir, the Province’s vision is, and I quote:

“to have a diversified and self sustaining economy that meets the needs and aspirations of the Copperbelt Province community.”

Sir, the Province is working towards this vision.

The overall objective of the Province is, and I quote:

“to facilitate the provision of quality socio-economic services in the Province in order to promote a high standard of living.”

Mr Chairperson, arising from the above objective and in line with the Fifth National Development Plan, the Province will, this year, continue with the following programmes:

(a) promotion of agriculture diversification and specialisation to ensure availability of a wide range of agricultural commodities;

(b) development of land resettlement infrastructure;

(c) rehabilitation of feeder road;

(d) improvement of water supply and sanitation;

(e) sustainable utilisation of wood and non wood products;

(f) development of infrastructure;

(g) rehabilitation and expansion of health facilities;

(h) preservation of culture;

(i) empowerment of youths; and

(j) mainstreaming gender and HIV/AIDS.

Mr Chairperson, these programmes are also in line with the Medium Term Expenditure Framework and, indeed, the Millennium Development Goals.

Mr Chairperson, during 2007, a number of activities were undertaken that included capital and Poverty Reduction Programmes (PRPs). Of the budgeted K28,274,058,102, K26,630,889,172 was released, leaving a balance of K1,643,168,930. This means about 90 per cent of the allocation was released. This is an improvement compared to 2006 when 69.5 per cent was released by December.

Sir, on Personal Emoluments, K11,605,556,568 was approved of which K11,773,922,278 was released and paid out. The over expenditure on personal emoluments was due to recruitment of new officers as a result of restructuring in some ministries as well as transfers.

Mr Chairperson, under the Recurrent Departmental Charges (RDCs) K7,538,291,452 was approved of which K6,380,529,996 was released. RDCs are key to the effective and efficient performance of the Province.

Sir, under the Poverty Reduction Programme, K9,090,007,157 was approved of which K8,130,550,761 was released and spent on various programmes. The programmes that benefited included health, education, Copperbelt Support Programmes, land resettlement programmes, forestry, infrastructure development, water supply and sanitation and other PRPs.

Mr Chairperson, the programmes undertaken were as follows:

(a) Copperbelt Support Programme;

(b) beekeeping programme;

(c) land resettlement ;

(d) the Province was able to rehabilitate some dams;

(e) under health, four health posts, two staff houses and two rural health centres were constructed; and

(f) under education, funds were spent on purchasing of school desks.

Mr Chairperson, it is worth mentioning that there are other Government development programmes that were not funded directly through the provincial administration. Those that were undertaken by NGOs and investors included the following:

(a) The Fertilizer Support Programme;

(b) Programme Against Malnutrition (PAM);

(c) on road construction or rehabilitation, a number of roads were rehabilitated that included the following:

(i) rehabilitation of forty-five kilometres of Masangano/Fisenge/Luanshya Road (M6);

(ii) construction of sixty-eight kilometres …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! We do not seem to be listening. Provincial Ministers are making responses to some of the concerns that were raised. Therefore, let us give them time and maybe, at the same time, hon. Ministers should try to be brief and to the point.

Could the hon. Minister, please, continue.

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, before, I was interrupted, I was saying that sixty-eight kilometres of the Chingola/Kasumbalesa Road was constructed;

(iii) heavy grading and spot re-gravelling of 14.9 km of the roads in the Kafubu Farm Block  at a cost of K300 million;

(d) construction of a modern market in Kitwe;

(e) construction of a Girls’ Technical School in Ndola: and

(f) tourism development credit facilities.

Sir, major mining development included the following:

(i) establishment of an acid plant in Chambishi;

(ii) establishment of a leach plant in Chambishi;

(iii) construction of a copper leach plant in Kalulushi;

(iv) establishment of an open pit and underground copper mine by Teal Exploration and Mining in Mwanbashi, Kalulushi;

(v) expansion of the existing plant for production of copper in Chambishi by NFC Mines Plc; and

(vi) construction of a copper solvent extraction plant at Chambishi by Chambeshi Metals Plc.

Mr Chairperson, finally, I wish to give a breakdown of the budgetary allocation for the Province for 2008. This year, the Province has been give a budgetary provision of K30.9 billion compared to last year’s K28.2 billion. Out of this allocation, K13.8 billion is for personal emoluments, K7.9 billion for Recurrent Departmental Charges and K9.1 billion for capital expenditure.

Sir, under personal emoluments, the Province has recorded an increase mainly due to the restructuring of departments.

Mr Nkhata: Fyafula!

Mr Mbulakulima: Iwe Nkhata nkala zii!

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: The Province is also trying to revive the Copperbelt Diversification Programme in order to attain its vision of having a diversified and self-sustaining economy for the Copperbelt Province community.

Mr Chairperson, as I said, my speech must be …

Ms Lundwe: As short as a mini skirt!

Mr Mbulakulima: … as short as a mini shirt …

Laughter

Mr Mbulakulima: … but long enough to cover the salient points.

Sir, allow me now to respond to some of the issues raised by …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah! Iwe look at the time!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mbulakulima: … the hon. Members.

The Deputy Chairperson: Continue hon. Minister.

Mr Mbulakulima: Hon. Kambwili mentioned that police accommodation on the Copperbelt was worrisome. I think the line ministry, which is Home Affairs, is doing everything possible to address the situation. You may recall that last year, Twapia Compound received a boost in this area when over ninety houses were provided. This year, the Ministry has even bigger plans.

The other issue Hon. Kambwili raised relates to the Maposa squatters. I wish to inform the hon. Member that this issue is being attended to effectively. The Government is waiting for a statutory instrument and everything will be done.

The issue he raised on road infrastructure has been attended to by the Minister of Works and Supply.

Mr Simbao: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: The Kitwe/Chingola Road is undergoing feasibility studies and all the roads on the Copperbelt are receiving attention.

Hon. Kambwili also raised the issue of the falling standards of football on the Copperbelt Province. As I mentioned in my speech, the league was won by no other team than ZESCO United from the Copperbelt. It is also important to mention that the mining companies are giving tremendous support to the football clubs. All that is needed is a change of attitude. As hon. Members of Parliament, we must learn to educate the footballers.

Mr Simbao: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, as you may know, Konkola Copper Mines Plc (KCM) sponsors the KCM League in Zambia. It has doing what the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines Ltd (ZCCM) could not do. It spent K4.05 billion on soccer in Zambia. This is no mean achievement at all. Besides providing the infrastructure, the three clubs that are sponsored by KCM receive a grant of K1.6 billion each. I am sure all the hon. Members are aware that KCM has made an offer of US $25,000 for the coach.. Indeed, KCM is doing a commendable job.

Sir, besides providing transports and camp houses, the Luanshya Copper Mines is spending K48 million per month on grants. Mopani Copper Mines is also spending US $ 7,000 for the two teams, namely Nkana and Mighty Mufulira Wanderers.

I admit that there is a need for Mopani Copper Mines to scale up and emulate what KCM and Luanshya Copper mines are doing.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: We need to get concerned because Mopani Copper Mines is not doing enough.

In December last year, I wrote to Mopani Copper Mines requesting them to assist in rehabilitating Shinde Stadium. It is my sincere hope that they will do this for the people of Mufulira.

Hon. Mushili raised very serious concerns with regard to development. I want to state here that some of the issues he raised have already been covered by what I have said. However, I have no doubt that there is a warm relationship between the provincial administration and Members of Parliament. This administration will not allow a creation of parallel structures.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: We are aware that there is a District Development Committee in each district and a city council responsible for development. The solicited help or donations from outside the country that are taken to the provinces in an uncoordinated manner will not be allowed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: It will be irresponsible for any Provincial Minister or government official to allow that. We, in Government, know the agenda and we mean well. All those with credible activities are welcome.

Finally, Mr Chairperson, I would like to assure my colleagues from the Copperbelt Province that there is a need to focus on development this year. There is no harm crashing with me on matters relating to development. Last year, we might have spent time sizing each other up because it was the first year, now we know which way to go. Therefore, there is a need for us to come together and have accelerated development.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbulakulima: The door at my office remains open because I stand for development and you are welcome at any time. Mr Chairperson, I am convinced that together, we can build the nation.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Boma!

The Minister for Central Province (Mr A. Banda): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!

Mr A. Banda: As advised by the Chair, I will be very brief.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. Banda: I will highlight to this august House the poverty reduction programmes and activities proposed for 2008, sector by sector.

Under Capital Expenditure, the Provincial administration has been allocated K1.099 billion for infrastructure development; that is civil works for offices and staff houses in the Central Province.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. Banda: In addition, K600 million has been allocated for procurement of motor vehicles and transport management.

On the issue of Health, I wish to mention that K1 billion has been allocated for the improvement of health services in the Province.

Sir, the educational sector has been allocated K1.1 billion for infrastructure development; that is construction and rehabilitation of schools, while the agricultural sector has been allocated K500 million for the Cattle Restocking Excise.

Mr Matongo: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Matongo: Mr Chairperson, …

Mr Kaingu: Just sit down!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Address the Chair. Mr Matongo, address the Chair!

Laughter

Mr Matongo: Since it is after dinner, I can raise a point of order.

The Deputy Chairperson: State your point of order!

Mr Matongo: Is it in order for the ministers from the provinces, particularly the previous speaker and the one on the Floor, to make ministerial financial statements instead of giving us executive summaries …

Mr Kakoma: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: … of what their functions in the provinces are so that we can go ahead and approve the budget through the Appropriation Bill tonight. I need your ruling on the state of address that we are receiving from the provincial ministers.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Well, it is really not for the Chair to say what the ministers should or should not say. All the same, the Chair would like to make an appeal, like I did earlier, that the Provincial Ministers should summarise their speeches because, in any case, at the end of their debate, His Honour the Vice-President will still wrap up what we are discussing.

So, take the hon. Member’s point of order should be taken into account.

Can the hon. Deputy Minister continue, please?

Mr A. Banda: Thank you very much, Mr Chairperson, I have taken note of that. Let me just continue by saying that in agriculture, some money has been allocated to this Vote.

Laughter

Mr A. Banda: Roads have also been taken care of.

Laughter

Mr A. Banda: Land resettlement, Mr Chairperson, has also been taken care of.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. Banda: Forestry has been taken care of.

Laughter

Mr A. Banda: Group water development has been taken care of.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. Banda: Community development has been taken care of ...

Laughter

Mr A. Banda: … as well as cultural services.

Laughter

Mr A. Banda: Mr Chairperson, …

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr A. Banda: … let me jask the hon. Members of Parliament in this august House to support …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr A. Banda: … the budget.

I thank you very much, Sir.

Laughter

The Minister for Northern Province (Mr Chibombamilimo): Mr Chairperson, I wish to thank you for giving me this opportunity to say a few things on the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Northern Province.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: I would like to thank the hon. Members of Parliament from the Northern Province, especially those who debated very well on the Province.

Hon. Member for Northern Province: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: The Northern Province has been allocated K26 billion. That is the money that the whole Province will use under the provincial administration. Last year, the province was allocated K26 billion.

Mr Chairperson, I would like to say that the Northern Province is the biggest province in the country.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Therefore, the distance from Lusaka to Kasama is almost 1000 kilometres and from there to the other districts is not less than 200 kilometres. This means that the money that has been allocated to the Northern Province is not enough so to say.

Interruptions

Mr Chibombamilimo: There are twelve districts and twenty-one constituencies in the Province.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Minister.

Mr Chibombamilimo was standing.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order means you should sit down. By way of guidance really, may be there is another way in which you can say what you want to say, because you are speaking like a back bencher. Could you can put it in a better way.

Can you, please, continue?

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes, as a minister.

Mr Chibombamilimo: I am coming to that. Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for your guidance.

Interruptions

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Chairperson, I want to say that the Northern Province is predominantly rural based, which means the occupation of the people of the Northern Province is subsistence farming and also supplemented by fishing in the lakes and rivers scattered around the Province.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Chairperson, a few people have been employed by the Tanzania Zambia Railways (TAZARA0 and some by African Plantation Coffee Estates.

As a Government, we are doing our best to ensure that there is development, especially good roads. However, I want to say that there is a lot that still needs to be done.

Laughter

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Chairperson, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Can you continue, please?

Interruptions

Mr Chibombamilimo: … can you give me chance.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Minister, do not pay attention to hecklers. Please, you people who are seated do not distract his statement.

Can you continue hon. Minister, please.

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Chairperson, we have a lot of waterfalls in the Northern Province. This means that there is no need, actually, for the Northern Province to be connected to the national grid.

Interruptions

Mr Chibombamilimo: As a Government, I hope that we will do something about this.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Chairperson, I would also like to talk about the bridges that one hon. Member of Parliament talked about. In this case, I will cite the example of the Mbesuma Bridge that has been allocated K600 million for feasibility studies.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: We are aware that as a Government, we lost K4.5 billion that we could not account for, …

Laughter

Mr Chibombamilimo: … but the point, Mr Chairperson …

Dr Machungwa: On a point of order, Sir.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! A point of order is raised.

Dr Machungwa: Mr Chairperson, I am worried about the debate of my brother. You have already cautioned him on his line of debate. When he comes here to complain that, as a Government, they do not know where the money went, how are we as back benchers supposed to help him? Is he really in order to debate in this manner?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Really, on a serious note, I think hon. Minister you are not debating correctly because the reason we want hon. Province Ministers to wrap-up debate on their provinces by responding to what the hon. Members from their provinces have said. There is a better way for you to wind-up debate on your Province than what you are doing.

Can you continue, but respond to what the people have said.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Chairperson, I want to say that the people of the Northern Province have said that it was going to be better for us to actually build this same bridge instead of spending money on feasibility studies again.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: However, I want to assure them that the Government is actually looking into this issue.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: That is what you should be saying.

Mr Chibombamilimo: Mr Chairperson, finally, …

Laughter

Mr Chibombamilimo: … I would like to thank the hon. Members of Parliament from the Northern Province for supporting me. I hope that they will continue supporting me so that we continue …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chibombamilimo: … working together in order to make progress. Of course, there are numerous problems that the Province faces, but I hope, we will be able to overcome all these problems eventually.

Thank you very much, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister for Luapula Province (Mr Musosha): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for this opportunity to wrap-up debate and respond to what my colleagues from my Province have said.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order!

The hon. Minister may continue, please.

Mr Musosha: I wish to start with what hon. Dr Katele Kalumba said in his appreciation for the bridge at Chembe, which is going to ease communication and business transactions between the Northern, Luapula and Copperbelt Provinces.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musosha: Mr Chairperson, I wish to assure this House and the nation that the work at Chembe Bridge is progressing very well. About 80 per cent of the work has so far been completed, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musosha: … as the Government and the contractor are on course.

Hon. Government members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musosha: Mr Chairperson, with regard to the concerns expressed on the implementation of the Luwena Sugar Plantation in Kawambwa, we have so far collected a Toyota Hilux from the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives. The feasibility studies and other programmes, including that of electrification of the area, are on course. As this is a listening Government, we will soon finish this project so that the people of Luapula and the nation can have more sugar for both export and domestic use.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musosha: The Kawambwa Tea Company is a source of concern …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musosha: … and as a Government, we are trying everything possible to solve the many problems that our people have been facing.

Mr Chairperson, the Tuta/Kashikishi/Lunshinga Road is in a very bad state. However, in the last two weeks, I had an opportunity of visiting the Road Development Agency (RDA) Headquarters where I was promised that this road would be rehabilitated this year. To prove that, we have fourteen road contracts that have been awarded to various local contractors in the Province. These feeder roads will be worked on as soon as the rains are over. Therefore, this Government is working.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musosha: In the area of health, the Government has promised our Province that district hospitals are going to be constructed in all the districts. We have seven districts and we hope that seven hospitals are going to be constructed.

Mr Chairperson, drugs for diseases such as cholera and malaria have been delivered in advance.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musosha: In addition, Hon. Katele Kalumba talked about a security road. A contractor has been identified to work on the road between Chembe and Matanda. Only this morning, I saw two advertisements in the Zambia Daily Mail on the road between Milenge and Chembe which connects to the security road that I have just talked about. In the near future, we are going to continue up to Mwense …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Musosha: … to the Kashikishi/Lunshinga Road.

Hon. Chimbaka talked about the risks that road users are exposed to each time they use the Tuta Road. I have just told this House and the nation that RDA has committed itself to undertaking this programme of road rehabilitation.

Mr Chairperson, with regard to the power supply from the Musonda Falls, there is assurance that this year the problems that we have been facing concerning load shedding or lack of power will be reduced, thereby enabling the opening of the mines in Mwense and Chienge. The Ministry of Energy and Water Development has assured me that this is going to be worked on this year.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musosha: Mr Chairperson, on tourism, Hon. Chimbaka wanted to know what programmes the Government has in this year’s Budget. I wish to pay tribute to my provincial administration officers, from the Acting Permanent Secretary going down, for their hard work. Before, the Luapula Province was not known as far as tourism is concerned, but they have done so much. A lot of hon. Members in here have seen on television how much Luapula Province is being exposed. Therefore, I wish to urge them to find time to visit the Province. There are a lot of opportunities, especially for those who are running businesses.

Hon. Member: No juju.

Mr Musosha: No juju, madala.

Hon. Dr Machungwa talked about the Chembe Bridge and his wish to have the Pedicle Road tarred. Allow me to say that from the creation of this road, nobody has ever thought of constructing a bridge across the Luapula River. If people have thought about tarring it in the past, their thoughts have never come to fruition. However, this year, the New Deal Administration is implementing this project …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Musosha: … and by August we will be crossing that bridge safely.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musosha: President Mwanawasa’s desire is to ensure that soon after the construction of the bridge, the Pedicle Road is tarred. This is a working Government, therefore, this is going to be done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Musosha: I wish to thank the various ministries of this Government, especially the Ministry of Health whose hon. Minister has promised that before the end of this year, at least three ambulances per district will be delivered to all nursing schools and district hospitals.

I would also like to thank the Ministry of Home Affairs, where I served at one time, for the promise to improve accommodation for all police officers. The transport situation has improved and I believe even the housing scheme is going to be a success.

Finally, I wish to request …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Musosha: … all the hon. Members of Parliament from Luapula to be free in working with both the provincial administration and myself because we are all there to contribute to the productivity of our Province.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister for Western Province (Mr Mufalali): Mr Chairperson, I thank you for giving me the Floor to say a few words to this House, outlining the Budget benefits for 2007 for the people of the Western Province in the 2008 Budget.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, the mission statement for Western Province is to:
 
“effectively and efficiently provide increased and equitable access to quality socio-economic service in the Province in order to promote high standards of living”.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Our major goal is to:

“ promote sustainable development in the Province in order to ensure quality and timely service delivery to the community in a transparent, accountable and equitable manner through effective management and efficient utilisation of financial, human and material resources.”

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I will skip some parts of my speech.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: My office has continued …

Laughter

Mr Deputy Chairperson: Order! Let us not delay our work. Let us listen.

Mr Mufalali: … to make a provision for intervention through tree planting …

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: … tracking illegal timber cutting and maintaining the forestry boundaries.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, I need your protection, the House is making a lot of noise.

Hon. UPND Members: Munkombwe!

Laughter

Mr Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Members, we have a long agenda. If we have to make progress, let us give chance to the person debating. We are developing a habit, which I am seeing from my right, of people raising their hands. I do not know what that means.

Laughter

Mr Deputy Chairperson: Both from my right and left, let us stop raising those hands, because they are not adding any value to his statement. You know that the acceptable way here is to say ‘hear, hear’ not with the hands going up. So, can we stop that.

 Continue, please, hon. Minister.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Additionally, my office, in conjunction with the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources, has recruited new staff to ensure the negative vices are corrected.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, the heavy rains that have affected the Barotse Plains and other areas have damaged crops, livestock and infrastructure. Assessments are being carried out by our relevant institutions and a report will soon be made.

Hon. Western Province Members: Bulela!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, before I end up my submission, I would like to thank all hon. Members who have contributed to our budget. I have noted their advice.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I will not allow any more points of order!

You may continue, hon. Minister.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: I would like to appeal to the hon. Members to make use of my office in order to get the right information on the ground.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: However, to respond to the hon. Member of Parliament for Lukulu East who complained about the lack of auditing the day before yesterday when they are already in her constituency, …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear1

Mr Mufalali: … I would like to assure her that we have enough qualified brothers in the Province, starting from the districts up to provincial the level to plan, monitor and carry out infrastructure development in the Province.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Already, last year we acquired transport for monitoring, but this year we have not.

Mr Chairperson, my sister complained about the decrease in the human management allocation. She can be assured that human management also is covered in the office management allocation.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Let me assure my sister that the Government pays attention to the plight of our children for them to have a better education, hence she will notice that last year, we had no allocation for the rehabilitation of high schools, while it is there this year.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, personnel from the Department of Veterinary Services, at the moment, are vaccinating animals in the Province. The programme for disease control has been taken over by the line ministry.

Mr Chairperson, indeed, our national Chairman, Hon. Mabenga, Member of Parliament for Mulobezi, talked a lot about the need for the roads in the Province to be rehabilitated and constructed. This has been echoed, today, by Hon. Milupi, Member of Parliament for Luena. The only appeal that I would like to make is for a speedy start to this programme, because, really, we are landlocked.

Laughter

Mr Mufalali: Mr Chairperson, may I take this opportunity to inform this House and the nation at large that the relationship between the Government and the Barotse Royal Establishment (BRE) is very good.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: BRE is more than ready to give land to the Government for development. Therefore, I urge the Ministry of Home Affairs to give us the programme for constructing the fifty houses for police officers in Mongu.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: Mongu Municipal Council has the land to build the houses.

Hon. Western Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mufalali: I wish to end my submission by thanking all co-operating partners who have continued to render unconditional support to the Western Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister for Eastern Province (Mr Shawa): Mr Chairperson, thank you very much for the chance that you have given me to say a few words with regard to the budget for the Eastern Province.

Hon. Eastern Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa: Mr Chairperson, in the first place, I wish to express our deep sorrow, pain and grief for the loss of one of our gallant officers who was Member of Parliament for Milanzi, Hon. Chosani Njovu.

Mr V. Mwale: Pepani, pepani.

Mr Shawa: We are very sad, indeed, on behalf of all the people of Eastern Province that we have lost this dynamic and pragmatic man who contributed positively in this House.

Mr Chairperson, I have taken note of the contributions made by Hon. Chifumu Banda and the other two hon. Members from the Eastern Province. We are aware of the fact that we have so many challenges, suffice to mention that this Government is working very hard to solve most of these problems that our people are facing in the Eastern Province.

Hon. Eastern Province Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa: I would like to announce through this House that this budget has provided K15 billion to ameliorate the road between Nyimba and Sinda.

The Kacholola Bridge has already been worked on and works have been completed. At the moment, we are working on the Sonje Bridge which is at Katete. Instead of using metal culverts, we are now utilising concrete one that will be very difficult to destroy.

Hon. Member: Jacob Zuma.

Mr Shawa: Mr Chairperson, I wish to state that my officers at the provincial office are very industrious and co-operative. I wish to appeal to all the hon. Members of Parliament to work as a team. If we work as a team, definitely, we shall all deliver.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa:  I would like to thank the hon. Members from the other side, particularly my dear friend, Hon. Chimbaka, although he has a mental circuit, for his wise words.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order, hon. Minister. The phrase “mental circuit” does not seem to augur well with the Chair. Can you put it in a better way?

Mr Shawa:  My colleague, Hon. Chimbaka, who is mentally fit …

Laughter

Mr Shawa: … for his wise words which I did not understand earlier, but he said “iyabuluma tailya”. I took that …

The Deputy Chairperson: Meaning?

Mr Shawa:  … to mean that the lion that …

Hon. Government Members: Roars does not eat.

Mr Shawa: … roars does not eat.

Laughter

Mr Shawa: When a lion roars, you know that there is a lion and you have to run away. What it simply means is that the advice that is being given by our colleagues must also be taken very seriously.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Shawa:  Otherwise, I would like to say that we are very grateful. The Eastern Province would like to take a holistic and equitable approach to development. I am very grateful for the contributions. The Budget is there for you to support.

I thank you, Mr Chairperson.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Mpombo:  Mr Chairperson, firstly, I would like to thank all the hon. Members for their useful contributions. We have taken note of all the important issues that have been raised and I would like to urge all hon. Members of Parliament to be free in consulting the provincial ministers’ offices. We are under a directive from His Excellency the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa Sc., to ensure that we, as provincial ministers, interact with all hon. Members of Parliament without any form of discrimination.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Therefore, we want to say that these are Government offices and are properly positioned to attend to different issues, including hon. Members of Parliament because all of us represent the people of Zambia.

In conclusion, I would like to say that we need to work together as a team. Of course, we have received some disturbing reports, particularly on the Copperbelt, where some Hon. Members of Parliament have assumed a very confrontational attitude towards Government officers.

Hon. MMD Member: Mwila!

Mr Mpombo: This is counter productive because it is only the people you represent who are going to suffer. Therefore, we must ensure that we tone down our language, because if we are always throwing mud at each other, how are you going to approach the same people we are insulting?

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: I would like to reiterate that this is a Government of developmentalists and will ensure that we stick to our programme of developing every corner of Zambia.

Mr Chairperson, I, once again, pay tribute to all the hon. Members of Parliament who have debated in a very cool and useful manner. I would like to say that the Government has very seriously taken note of all the submissions.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Vote 90/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! There is too much talking. We are making noise.

Hon. MMD Member: Mwila!

Vote 90/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/43 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/44 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/46 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/48 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/49 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/51 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/52 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 90/53 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/07 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/08 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/09 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/16 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/17 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/18 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/19 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/23 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/24 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/25 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/35 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/36 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/37 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/40 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/41 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 91/42 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 91/43 – (Office of the President – Copperbelt Province – Child Affairs Department – K144,086,662).

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): May I have clarification on Programme 7, Activity 02 – Child Affairs Activities which has no allocation this year, while there was a provision of K17,943,479, last year. Can the hon. Minister tell us whether there will be no child welfare activities in the Province this year?

Mr Mbulakulima: Mr Chairperson, the activity will be conducted by the line ministry, which is the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development.

I thank you, Sir.

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Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 94/01 – (Office of the President – Western Province – Headquarters –K24,984,868,094).

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Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Consult quietly!

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Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka left the Assembly Chamber

Mr D. Mwila: Iwe wifyuka inchito ilepwa!

Laughter

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VOTE 96/16 – (Office of the President – Luapula Province – Forestry Department – K1,319,287,498)

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, on Programme 7, Activity 01 – Conducting Forest Patrols and Mounting of Road Blocks – K33,593,000, last year, we budgeted for K30,350,000 and we had a supplementary budget of K73.8 billion which came to K104,174,572. I would like to find out why the allocation has been reduced to K33,593,000.

On Programme 8, Activity 03 – Training in Harvesting and Processing of Honey – K13,308,000, last year, we budgeted for K26,250,000 and we had a supplementary budget of K30,760,430, which came to K57,244,500. Again, it has been reduced to K13.308,000.

On Programme 9, Activity 02 – Conducting of Participatory Forestry and Bio-Diversity Inventories – K26,078,000, last year, we budgeted for K19,838,000 and we had a supplementary budget of K58,981,529, bringing the total to K78819,529. It has been reduced to K26,078,000.

Lastly on Programme 10, …

Hon. Member interjected.

M D. Mwila: Mind you, I have an interest. … Activity 04 – Site Preparation for Plantation Establishment and Tree Planting – K16,092,750, last year, we budgeted for K35,000,000 and we had a supplementary budget of K54,911,837. The total came to K89,9911,837, again, it has been reduced to K16,092,750, I would like some clarification from the hon. Minister. Are we not expecting a supplementary budget, again?

Mr Musosha: Mr Chairperson, in the case of Programme 7, Activity 01 – Conducting Forest Patrols and Mounting of Road Blocks – K33,593,000, Programme 8, Activity 03 – Training in Harvesting and Processing of Honey – K13,308,000 and Programme 10, Activity 04 – Site Preparation for Plantation Establishment and Tree Planting – K16,092,750, the decrease is due to budgetary constraints. In the case of Programme 9, Activity 02 – Conducting of Participatory Forestry and Bio-Diversity Inventories – K26,078,000,  the increase is due to the increase in the number of activities.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, my concern is on the reduction because we have been having supplementary budgets. Therefore, I would like to know why we have these reductions. Are we expecting any supplementary budget?

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! I thought he said it was due to budgetary constraints.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Chairperson, the second answer was not appropriate.

Mr Musosha: Mr Chairperson, when programmes have been carried out, they do not need to be repeated. Therefore, there is no need to increase the budget.

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Business was suspended from 2330 hours until 2345 hours.

[MADAM CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]

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Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

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Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order, hon. Members!

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Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

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Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 65/01 – (Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training – K135,610,621,478).

The Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Mr Daka): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for the opportunity …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: … to present my statement in support of the Estimates of Revenue and Expenditure for the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocation Training to this august House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: Let me start by congratulating my counterpart at the Ministry of Finance and National Planning for the steady, strong and decisive leadership that he has provided in fiscal policy development and implementation that has become synonymous with the New Deal Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: Madam Chairperson, the theme for this year’s Budget represents a significant and important direction for us. In order to see how this Budget facilitates the “Unlocking of Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation,” we must focus our debate on how we can unlock resources. Unlocking resources should not just be about demanding resources from the Government, rather it should be viewed comprehensively. Unlocking resources also means using the Budget to empower our people with the means and environment in which they can be in a position to take advantage of the resources that are being unlocked as well as creating within them the capacity to create wealth.

Madam, my Ministry is responsible for facilitating, co-ordinating and promoting the development and application of science and technology, and the provision of technical education, vocational and entrepreneurship skills for sustainable national economic growth and improved quality of life.

Madam Chairperson, I will preset my statement in two major parts. Firstly, I will look at the Ministry’s Budget performance during 2007. Secondly, I will present the key issues contained in the 2008 Budget, and then make my concluding remarks.

Madam Chairperson, 2007 was a progressive year for my Ministry. Our Budget increased from K37.12 billion in 2006 to K80.5 billion in 2007. This was mainly due to the increase in the discretionary Budget allocation for the target sub-sector whereas in 2005 and 2006, most of the capital works were financed by the co-operating partners.

Sir, 2007 saw a change with the Government becoming a major financier of capital projects. This is due largely to the Government’s determination to improve access to skills training through the provision of infrastructure. The major focus for 2007, therefore, was to speed up the construction, rehabilitation, re-equipping of the training and research institutions while building both institutional and human capacity so as to create a more conducive working environment and improve service delivery.

Mr Chairperson, the main programmes implemented during 2007 were as follows:

(a) the completion of the rehabilitation works in training institutions and the laboratories at the National Institute for Scientific and Industrial Research (NISIR). This included building capacity at research centres through the procurement of research equipment;

(b) the construction of office blocks,  workshops,  libraries and classroom blocks at Solwezi, Mongu, Ukwimi and Kaoma Trades Training Institutes;

(c) the continued implementation of the Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training (TEVET) Fund and the Bursary Scheme;

(d) the commissioning of TEVET Graduate Tools Scheme through the procurement of tools; and

(e) the implementation of Youth Inventors Fund and the Strategic Research Fund.

Madam Chairperson, at Solwezi Trades Training Institute, ten classrooms, a library, an administration block and two workshops are being constructed at a cost of more than K4 billion.

Madam, in Chipata, similar infrastructure is being put up, while at Mongu, Kaoma and Ukwimi, administration blocks are being constructed at a combined cost of K12 billion. A hostel block at Mongu Trades Training Institute and Kitwe Vocational Training Centre are also under construction. Although significant progress is being made, the phasing of works in small portions means completion of works will take longer.

The Ministry intends to scale up the works so that significant progress is made in a much shorter period. The Ministry also procured vehicles, kitchen equipment and furniture for training institutions. The Ministry has also established Local Area Networks at its training and scientific institutions and linked them to a network. This network will form the basic infrastructure for information sharing amongst research institutions, universities, colleges as well as enhance training.

Madam Chairperson, funding to the Bursary Scheme increased in 2007 with the additional support from co-operating partners. This enables the Ministry to increase the number of beneficiaries to 2,400 students. With the ever increasing demand for bursaries, the Ministry will continue to raise its contribution to the scheme.

Madam Chairperson, we are very concerned with the high unemployment levels amongst the youths. Since skills development does not necessarily lead to formal employment or employment creation, it is important, therefore, to provide graduates of skills development programmes with additional support such as tool kits, capital, access to land, market support and many other forms of support.

Madam, in view of the above, the Govenrment launched the Graduate Toolkit Scheme for public skills training institutions by giving youths an opportunity to generate income through effective use of their skills immediately after graduating. Graduates from technical training institutions were given toolkits for their trades on a soft loan basis. We want to develop more entrepreneurs, who, tomorrow, will be key players in the formal sector as employers rather than employees.

Madam Chairperson, the Youth Inventors Fund was established and commissioned in 2007 and it is intended to be used to finance innovations by the youths that can be commercialised with a specific focus on innovations that are relevant to wealth and employment creation.

Madam, in 2007, eight renovations were approved for support under the fund and we are optimistic about the potential of these renovations, especially those in the energy sector. Through interventions such as the Youth Inventors Fund and Strategic Research Fund, the Ministry has been able to directly finance research activities. However, financing to research remains very low. One contributing factor to this situation is that currently, the research institutions are structured in an inefficient manner. The Ministry is working towards restructuring the institutions to make them responsive to the dynamics of the current time.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: Madam Chairperson, the operations of the TEVET Fund is a long-term mechanism of funding TEVET and was improved in 2007. Total contracted commitments under the Fund improved from K3.3 billion in 2006 to K7 billion in 2007 with thirty-six companies and 1,500 students directly benefiting from the Fund. This was mainly due to improved capacity both within Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training Authority (TEVETA) and beneficiary institutions. The sustainability of the Fund, however, remains a source of concern, as this is highly dependent on improved funding. The Ministry is still working out modalities on the future of the Fund.

Madam, at present, scientific institutions have huge statutory debt and are unable to operate efficiently let alone meet basic operational costs at the present funding levels. For instance, outstanding arrears at NISIR currently stand at over K28.9 billion, making it almost impossible for the institution to carry out its statutory functions. As a result of the current debt situation, institutions are unable to undertake significant research and development and other science and technology programmes to build capacity in the sector.

However, Madam, my Ministry is in consultation with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and are working on resolving this problem of arrears.

Madam Chairperson, in 2008, my Ministry will be implementing important programmes that are aimed at facilitating better training delivery and improved access to skills training as well as strengthening our support to research and development. I am glad to inform the House that this year, the Ministry’s Budget estimates have increased to K135.61 billion from K80.5 billion in 2007. This is broken down as follows:

(a) Government  - K92.235 billion,  representing 68 per cent; and

(b) co-operating partners – K43.357 billion,  representing 32 per cent.

Madam Chairperson, my Ministry will launch a new strategic plan for the period 2008 to 2012. This strategic plan will guide the Ministry towards the attainment of the Vision 2030. Being the commencement year for the new strategic plan, 2008 is, therefore, a crucial year and it must lay a firm foundation for the rest of the plan period. In implementing programmes in 2008, my Ministry seeks to strengthen the mechanisms for implementation.

Madam, in the Science and Technology sector, the sustainability of research institutions is a major priority for 2008. There is a need to ensure that scientific institutions are sustainable and not entirely dependent on the Government for their operations. Various options to improve revenue generation within these institutions will be considered so that Government grants can be channeled directly towards research and development. In this year’s Budget, we are taking steps to address the debt problem by setting aside funds that will help us clear some of the outstanding personal emoluments due to former workers of NISIR.

Madam, another key thrust will be the review and revision of the National Science and Technology Policy of 1996. The weaknesses and gaps in the policy need to be addressed and filled so as to strengthen institutions and harmonise and rationalise research programmes. The Government’s intentions to review and revise our policy on science and technology are intended to capture this change.

Madam Chairperson, as the industrial base of this country grows, it is expected that local research activity will grow, facilitated by both local and foreign demands. To this effect, the Government will strengthen the regulation of research and development activities in the country by strengthening the regulatory framework that currently govern the science and technology sector.

Madam, we will prepare the country for any research activity and ensure that any research occurring within our borders is both ethical and beneficial to our people.

Madam Chairperson, in addressing policy deficiencies in Science and Technology, the Government will take steps to encourage development of appropriate human resources, especially engineers and scientists.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: We shall continue promoting the teaching of Mathematics and Science. To this effect, I would like to inform the House that the Government will re-introduce Mathematics, Science and Communication Skills as certifiable courses in the attainment of craft certificates.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: Since the late 1990s, students in craft courses have been graduating with no requirement for them to pass Mathematics, Science and Communication Skills. This is a situation we cannot allow to continue, especially at a time when we are focusing on science and technology.

Madam Chairperson, my Ministry will continue with its programmes of encouraging the girl child to take on careers in science and technology. We need more females to take up science and technology. I am glad to say that my Ministry is currently playing its role by sponsoring postgraduate studies for females taking up science and engineering courses.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: We have also tailored the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (MSTVT) bursary towards facilitating more females to take on technical courses. We must focus on producing a cadre of scientists and engineers to play a critical role in developing our technological capacity.

Madam Chairperson, following the significant investments in re-equipping and rehabilitating laboratories, the Ministry is focusing on increasing support to research programmes. To achieve this, the Ministry will continue with its programme to ensure the implementation of the Youth Inventors and Strategic Research Fund.

In Technical Education, Vocational and Entrepreneurship Training, one key issue needing address is the heavy dependence on donor goodwill for important programmes aimed at ensuring the sustainability of the sector. In implementing the TEVET Fund, we have generally relied on the support of co-operating partners. Continuing to rely heavily on co-operating partners to finance our skills training interventions is not a sustainable approach to managing our human resource development. With the coming to a close of the International Development Agency (IDA) credit, which is being used to support the TEVET Fund, the future of the Training Levy needs to be addressed. We will, therefore, be reviewing the implementation modalities and structure of the TEVET Fund so as to refocus interventions from the Fund. In a further effort to reduce donor dependence, the Government will be working to ensure that training institutions improve their capacities to generate own income. Our institutions have a lot of capacity to generate income to supplement funding from the Treasury.

Madam Chairperson, 2008 is the terminal year for the TDP extension, which was extended for twenty-four months from 1st January, 2007 to 31st December, 2008. The funds for the implementation of the activities will be provided by the Embassy of the Kingdom of the Netherlands (EKN) and IDA, with US$6.8 million as unspent funds on the credit. The implementation of TDP will, therefore, remain a key programme during the course of the year so as to exhaust the IDA credit.

Madam Chairperson, in the Budget this year, the Ministry will continue with construction works at new training institutions and rehabilitation of existing facilities in training institutions. The construction of permanent structures at provincial training institutions in the North-Western, Western and Eastern Provinces remains a major priority for the Ministry. While significant progress has been made in rehabilitating classrooms and workshops, staff houses and hostels remain largely in a deplorable state. The Ministry will, therefore, begin to channel funds towards the rehabilitation of staff houses and hostels.

 Madam Chairperson, at this point, I would like to indicate that we are saddened that while the Ministry is working hard to increase access to skills training through the construction of new infrastructure and improved facilities, councils and other local leaders are in some cases allocating land designated for the expansion of the training institutions or failing to protect the land from squatters. I appeal to hon. Members of Parliament from where trades training institute are located, to work with the Ministry in addressing this problem.

Madam Chairperson, as I indicated earlier, rather than emphasising formal sector employment, we want to develop more entrepreneurs. To this effect, the implementation of TEVET Graduate Tools Scheme will be a key programme. The Government will continue to put in place interventions aimed at creating an environment in which skilled persons will apply their skills and contribute to development. This gives them an opportunity to unlock their potential as human capital for this country. These interventions will be closely linked to other efforts in citizenship empowerment, which the Government has embarked on. To support this important policy focus, we will be making entrepreneurship an examinable course and it will be a requirement for the attainment of a craft certificate along with Mathematics and Science. This is to ensure that entrepreneurship is taken seriously by students.

Madam Chairperson, as I conclude, I would like to acknowledge that the cake we are sharing is limited in size. However, my Ministry is ensuring that its allocation is put to good use in line with the theme of this year’s Budget of “Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation”.

In drawing the budget proposal for 2008, we have taken into consideration the programmes and allocations as provided for in the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP). The 2008 allocation is shared between two sectors and the Ministry, with TEVET receiving more than 50 per cent of the K92.23 billion ceiling. With the inclusion of donor funding, the share of the MSTVT budget skews further to the TEVET sector with more than two thirds of the budget going to TEVET.

Of the total number of school leavers every year, the TEVET sector absorbs only about 8.5 per cent in private and public training providers with the public institutions taking up less than half this number. To develop, as a country, at least 20 per cent of school leavers must attain technical and vocational skills each year. With the economic growth projection over the next ten years, huge investment is required to increase public sector capacity to provide the much needed workforce for the economy.

Madam Chairperson, although funding to science and technology has been growing steadily over the years, it still remains far below what is required to make it contribute effectively to national development. However, my Ministry is doing all it can within the available resources. The development of our scientific and technological capacity is in effect the development of every other sector, be it health, education, the economy, agriculture or energy.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to assure the House that I will personally ensure that the key programmes in this year’s Budget are implemented effectively and efficiently. We will meet our commitments in 2008. I, therefore, request the hon. Members of the House to support this budget.

Germany and India were not what they are after the Second World War. They have progressed because of science, technology and innovation.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Madam Chairperson, I am highly inspired by a well-delivered speech by my friend, who just a few days ago, was indisposed. I am grateful that through the grace of his greatness, God has brought him back to deliver such a message that is good for us all.

Madam Chairperson, the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training cannot be marginalised. If only we have to look forward, it is a matter of where our children and grandchildren can discover things in order to develop. It is from that Ministry that all skills come. I am very grateful that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has increased the allocation by K5 billion, from K130 billion last year, to K135 billion this year. That is good enough for us. Having stated that, I would like to mention that there is a tendency in this country to shun reading. It is a tendency in this country to find issues of invention and technology strange. We always use political machinations and …

Mr Muyanda: You are not from the Eastern Province, iwe. You are speaking English like an easterner.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: … manipulation …

Mr Muyanda: Yes.

Mr Matongo: …rather than real thinking to get things to grow forward. That is why we have failed.

Madam Chairperson, I have two supporters who are village headmen, but they are ignored.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo:  I want to state that the one behind me is too indigenous for my liking.

 Laughter

Mr Matongo: Having stated that, I would like to put this perspective in the budget that we are still complaining. Science and technology is what the hon. Minister talked about lastly. For those who have read history, he said in 1945, it was a marshal plan that brought about the greatness of what we admire in Germany, today. It is a marshal plan that brought about the greatnesses of Japan, Tokyo, today. It is, indeed, from the foot traps of the Indian economic development of which I am an expert. India, where this Government is heading to, next week, to learn how to develop. Hon. Minister, I would like to support your greatness of thinking; that we should think technology and correctly.

Madam, while I subscribe to think domestic and global, we must think about what is new to develop this economy. There is no way you are going to develop if you do not take this Ministry seriously. As for the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, I would like to urge you to ensure that the little money that you have in that Ministry is used to fund scientists correctly and is put to good use. I do hope that the hon. Minister, whom I have known for some years, from the National Milling Company and the Refined Oil Products (ROP). These were creations of our generation I support this Vote unreservedly. Therefore, I do not even expect any further debate.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: I do not even expect any further debate on the matter because we already have the details of what we are going to do with this money in order to make discoveries for those who do not like science and those who only want to argue because there is an argument to be brought forward.

Sir, we have a duty in this country to support progressive moves, budgeting and thinking to get our children to think Science, Mathematics and not History, Geography or any other subject.

With these few words, Madam Chairperson, I support the hon. Minister in his interaction, but he must remember …

Laughter

Mr Matongo: … that the Kasiya Secretarial College is only for girls. We are expecting a boys’ college beside Kasiya. When this is done and the road has been worked on, young hon. Minister of Communications and Transport, you will have achieved what even Caesar never achieved in his lifetime. I wish you well.

 I thank you, Madam, Chairperson.

 Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Vote on the Floor of the House.

Madam Chairperson, from the onset, I would like to mention that I wholly support the budget line for the Ministry of Science, Technology, and Vocational Training.

Madam, general the education handled by the Ministry of Education offloads quite a big number of young people onto the streets after Grades 9 and 12. After this, they must now search for ways and means of where to go to further their education so that they can fend for themselves thereafter. Therefore, the most probable ministry would actually be the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training.

Indeed, there is skills’ training that is provided, especially by training institutions. Out of about 320,000 young people, TEVETA together with private training providers may only be able to absorb about 14,000 from general education.

Madam Chairperson, I feel it is important that more and more opportunities are provided for young people so that they can have a source of livelihood.

Interruptions

Mr Mabenga: You have never taught English.

Hon Members: Aah!

The Chairperson: Order! Speak through the Chair and, please, do not listen to hecklers.

Mr Mabenga: Madam Chairperson, I would like to thank you for your protection. I will move on.

Madam Chairperson, it is important that young people are given ways and means to achieve the goals they have set for their lives. This is why we should continue to find ways and means keeping young people meaningfully engaged to keep them away from unwanted activities that may not be acceptable to the communities they live in.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to emphasise the aspect of research and development. When we look at developed countries, today, it is through research and development that they have attained this status. Therefore, I feel very strongly that our will-be-scientists should be afforded the opportunity to achieve their aspirations through research and development in order to develop this country.

Madam, one of my colleagues talked about the importance of science and technology and I want to emphasise that point.

Mr Muntanga: You are repeating!

Mr Hamududu: And Mathematics!

Mr Mabenga: Indeed, and Mathematics.

Mr Hamududu: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Madam, no country can develop without science, technology and mathematics.

Madam Chairperson, in our schools today, we have what is known as the Junior Engineers, Technicians and Scientists’ (JETS) club which is supported by the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training. This is actually a very good starting point in ensuring that Science is taught and enhanced. It is a good starting point, but where does it end? It only ends at the JETS Fair in Lusaka …

Mr Hachipuka: On a point of order.

The Chairperson: Order! A point of order is raised.

Mr Mabenga: Why? A point of jealousy!

Laughter

The Chairperson: Hon. Mabenga, can you switch off the microphone, please?

Interruptions

Mr Hachipuka: Madam Chairperson, I had resolved not to raise any issues at this late hour, however, is the debater in order to continue by not raising new points, but repeating what the hon. Minister and Hon. Matongo have already said at this late hour?

Laughter

Mr Hachipuka: Is he in order to continue repeating and pontificating without raising serious matters on a serious subject? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Landeniko fimbi shikulu!

Laughter

The Chairperson: We have, indeed, a rule in the House to avoid what we call ‘tedious repetition’. However, at this moment in time, the Chair has not noted that tedious repetition from the hon. Member debating. He is debating the same points, but maybe in different ways for clarity. If it becomes tedious, definitely the Chair will curtail the debate.

The hon. member may continue, please.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Thank you, Madam Chairperson, for your protection.

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Mr Mabenga: If you have no good reason for going late …

The Chairperson: Order! Order!

Mr Mabenga: Oh, sorry!

Laughter

The Chairperson: Just debate!

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: Thank you, Madam. I was emphasising the importance of the Junior Engineers, Technicians and Scientists. To those who think I am not raising any new points, this is not an old point, but a new point.

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: I mentioned that JETS only ends at the JETS Fairs in Lusaka.

Major Chibamba: Take them to Harare!

Mr Mabenga: Do you know that these young people really come up with new ideas? At one time I attended a JETS Fair in Solwezi and I came across a child from Solwezi Secondary School who invented a kind of computer. By then, computers were alien to this country, and yet the idea was started in Solwezi.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Where has that idea ended?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: I am sure it must be somewhere in Mushindano area.

Interruptions

Mr Mabenga: This is because there are no facilitates to encourage the young people.

Interruptions

Mr V. Mwale: Tell us!

The Chairperson: Order! Order! Hon. Members, I think that it is better to listen. We are here to do business. If we have to conclude our business as quickly as we can, it is better for those of you with points to indicate rather than interrupt.

Hon. Member, you may continue.

Mr Mabenga: Madam, what I am saying is that there is a lot of potential in young people. Therefore, science and technology must be taken very seriously. If you look at this year’s budgetary allocation, JETS has only been given K10 million …

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame!

Mr Mabenga: … to further the aspirations of the young scientists.

Two to five years ago, the scientists in Chilanga advised this Government not to accept a kind of food that was ordered from outside this country.

Hon. Members: GMOs!

Mr Mabenga: Yes, the Genetically Modified Organisms (GMOs). We need to commend the scientists in Chilanga because they did a lot for this country. The scientists tested and proved that GMOs were not to be eaten by people of this country. We need to see more of this kind of research at Chilanga.

Mr D. Mwila: Where?

Mr Mabenga: In Chilanga, here in this country.

Hon. Members: At the airport!

Mr Mabenga: Well, it could be the airport or elsewhere.

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: Madam Chairperson, my emphasis is on science and technology which must be understood and developed in this country.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: That is my emphasis.

Madam, I have noted that the review of Science and Technology Act has only been allocated K117,500,000, which, I believe, is not enough.

Mr Muntanga: Where?

Mr Mabenga: If you do not read …

The Chairperson: Order! Speak through the Chair.

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: Madam, K117,500,000 is not enough. We need more money allocated for the review of the Science and Technology Act to be in force. This Act will bring a lot of changes. Therefore, it requires support. That is why I am saying that the allocation of K117,000,5000 is not enough. We need more money to be voted for this activity so that we can see change. This Act will also benefit the private institutions. At the moment, it only caters for the public institutions. I am, therefore, suggesting that the private institutions come to the aid of this very important Ministry.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Madam Chairperson, I want to thank you very sincerely for giving me this opportunity to debate.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Order! Before I allow any further debate, I would like to guide the House to be conscious that you are speaking to people who may be unable to absorb as much as you would want to. Therefore, be precise and make your point. You do not have to spend the allocated fifteen minutes talking …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: … so that we can accommodate as many Members as possible. Please, note that if a point has already been mentioned, it is not necessary to go through the same point, again.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Thank you, Madam Chairperson, for according me this opportunity to debate this Vote. I will keep my debate short and precise, as per your guidance. My debate has three parts and it is mostly an appeal to the hon. Minister of Science, Technology …

Hon. Opposition Member: And JETS.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa: … and Vocational Training. I have said before and I would like to repeat that this Ministry is the key to the wealth creation of this country. If we are going to develop and if we are going to be wealthy, this Ministry is the most important. Now, what that means and my appeal to the hon. Minister is that the mandate has already been given by the nation.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: The mandate has already been given by the Vision 2030. The mandate has already been given by the Fifth National Development Plan. Therefore, let the hon. Minister and the Ministry take that mandate and be aggressive.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Let them take this nation forward. Madam Chairperson, looking at the Ministry and all the other functions put together, I have observed that the Ministry has not been aggressive enough and proactive. There is a lot of rhetoric. The hon. Minister talked about Germany and India that were not the same after World War II? They did not come out of that situation through rhetoric.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: They were aggressive. They had targets to meet.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Madam Chairperson, I know we are in a liberalised economy and we are saying we are going to use industry to drive the technology forward. I would like to propose to the hon. Minister that there is no harm in setting a target. For example, let there be a computer made in Zambia by 2008. Let us say by 2009, we want a vehicle wholly made in Zambia. Let us see what happens after this.

Interruptions

Mr Simuusa: I was listening to a debate of the Parliament in Canada where they were debating whether or not to send a satellite into space to increase the response times for the internet. I found that very challenging. I would like to see that kind of aggression in the Ministry. I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister to be more aggressive if we are going to manage to meet our targets.

Secondly, Madam Chairperson, I would also like to see a system that entails monitoring and evaluation so that we can see where we came from and where we are going. The hon. Minister said that 2008 is the year of implementation. However, I beg to differ with this. This implementation started in 2006. Three years later, we still have not seen the progress we have made. Next year, how are we going to know how far we have gone? What is the yardstick?

Interruptions

Mr Simuusa: Again, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister that please, let us have a system that involves monitoring and evaluation to enable us see where we have come from, where we are and where we are going to enable us determine whether we are just talking or making progress.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Please, let us have that in place.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Finally, Madam Chairperson, the Bembas say imiti ikula empanga.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Literally, this means that the young people are the leaders of tomorrow who will lead this nation. I noticed with dismay that if you ask any young person nowadays what he or she wants to be. He or she will tell you that he or she wants to be an accountant, lawyer or something to do with computers. I have nothing against these professions, but I will tell you what is prevailing.

Hon. Opposition Member: Or a politician.

Mr Simuusa: Or a politician.

Laughter

Mr Simuusa: I am not sure, but those are the three professions I hear about. You will not hear them say I want to be an engineer, mechanic or miner. To me, that is suicide as a nation. I would like to urge the hon. Minister, even as he says that we want to promote science and technology, to take this observation very seriously, because if the young generation is crying for white collar jobs, as a nation, we are dying. One of the reasons this is probably happening is that we have glorified these professions. May be the young want to become accountants because they see accountants dress smartly and drive cars, while engineers wear gumboots and helmets. That is why they want to become accountants. They look at lawyers as very well respected. If there is anyone who is respected, it is a lawyer. Therefore the young do not want to become engineers. Madam Chairperson, we need to change this perspective towards profession this in our country.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Let us, for a change, respect a mechanic.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Let us respect a boiler maker and give him a mentor …

Hon. Members: Learner.

Mr Simuusa: …. so that the young people will know that this is an important profession. This is the profession that will create wealth and develop this nation.

Madam Chairperson, when I was a student of engineering at the University of Zambia, students in the arts related field were referred to as chikwakwa. We were proud of being in the school of engineering and would make fun of the chikwakwa people. In the real world, it has turned out that the chikwakwa people laugh at me as an engineer because of the status they have acquired in society.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa: Let us learn from countries such as Germany and India, as the hon. Minister said. In Germany or India engineer is well respected. He is given a calculator a slide ruler and a profile. Then find the young people also want to be engineers.

With these words, I thank you, Madam Chairlady.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

The Chairperson: Not Chairlady, Hon. Simuusa:

Mr Simuusa: Chairperson. I apologise, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Syakalima (Siavonga): I would like to thank you most sincerely for according me this opportunity to debate this Vote.

Madam Chairperson, in the first place, I would like to say that I listened to the hon. Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training debate and to me, his statement sounds like a project proposal that, if well funded, would be very meaningful, but if it is linked to this current Budget, he has enough to battle with. The project proposal has qualified, but linked to this Budget, it is a very bad one. I say this because science and technology by their nature are very expensive. If you are going to be treated like a backyard garden, we are doomed. In this country, this is how we have taken science and technology. I listened very carefully when the hon. Minister said they want to promote science and mathematics in learning institutions.

Madam Chairperson, you will agree with me that in this country, after opening so many basics schools, we started building high schools. At most of these high schools, there are no laboratories. This is why the other time I suggested the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training should not stand on its own but feed into the Ministry of Education. I will tell you how so many ministries can feed into each other. You will never have scientists if you do not have a scientific base.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: Pupils in high school do not have access to laboratories and we have so many of them. I am speaking from experience, because in many of these high schools, you will never find even a microscope when they are writing they are conducting experiments during examinations. So, this project proposal will not be accepted by your own Budget. Therefore, can we now start feeding into the Ministry of Education if we are serious about developing science and technology? I am afraid, the institutions that build scientists are non existent. If they are there, check the laboratories for the schools that used to be called secondary schools and see if you will find them functional.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Syakalima: There are no test tubes and bensen burners in these schools. Even today, higher institutions of learning where science is actually taught, including the University of Zambia and NISIR are in a similar situation. Two or three years ago, we went to inspect NISIR, Chilanga Branch and we found it in shambles. We found a scientist living in a house that had no door.

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame!

Mr Syakalima: The hon. Member’s on your right should realise that employing intellectuals is very expensive. A scientist cannot be expected to earn an income that does not sustain him or her for a month. Therefore, I am afraid the good intentions of my very good colleague on paper will not translate into scientific and technological advancements in this country.

Madam Chairperson, let me start linking the roles of the various ministries. We all know that technological, scientific and artistic endeavours do not flourish in societies where people have to struggle for food and shelter. That is a basic fact. With the levels of poverty in this country today, especially among scientists, we cannot expect to make progress in this area. If the Government is not going to address the issue of poverty, science and technology will never flourish in this country. Therefore, I hope the hon. Members on your right realise how these issues are interlinked.

I will now go back to talk about agriculture, again. As long as the agricultural sector is not using state of the art equipment, science and technology will become useless. Our educational system has been found wanting. These are the connections that we have to make in this country. If we do not make these connections, no matter how nice our project proposals are and are funded by this Budget, we will have an uphill battle. These are stark realities.

Therefore, I would like to urge my brother in-charge of this Ministry to start liaising with his colleagues in other ministries. He should liaise with his colleague next to him, hon. Minister of Education, Professor Lungwangwa.

Our scientific base is nonexistent. Scientists can only be motivated if there are good educational facilities. Mathematics and science will be meaningless if there are no laboratories. I am aware that the hon. Minister has promised to build laboratories and other facilities. However, the pace at which we are moving as a country is extremely slow.

Madam Chairperson, President Paul Kagame of Rwanda once said Africa lagged behind during the industrial revolution. It also lagged behind during the Agrarian Revolution. Today, Africa must not lag behind in Information Communication Technologies (ICTs), which the hon. Minister mentioned. You will recall that three years ago, the President said here, when he opened Parliament, that the Government was envisaging providing Information Communication Technologies in all the schools in this country, starting from the primary to university level. I wonder how this can be achieved in schools and areas where there is no electricity.

Mr Muntanga: There is no sense.

Mr Syakalima: Now this takes us back to the Ministry of Energy and Water Development. I hope the House can see how these issues are connected. Ministries do not work in isolation. Collectively, they are called the Government which means that they must share responsibilities. Since the President said that the Government was going to provide ICTs in all the primary schools, has the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) under the Ministry of Energy and Water Development, installed electricity in schools that did not have electricity? Not even solar panels have been installed. Therefore, we will never achieve this at all and be up to-date with the 21st century in terms of ICTs. It is an envious programme, but I think that we have an uphill battle.

Madam Chairperson, my appeal to my colleagues in all the ministries is that they should not think that their role in national development only ends with the responsibilities in their ministry. Ministries should work in tandem. It is unfortunate that every time an hon. Minister stands up to speak, he or she only talks about his or her ministry.

Now, where is my colleague with these very nice project proposals going to get laboratories …

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: … that are nonexistent in primary schools from, in order to create a scientific base? How are ICTs going to flourish without power being provided by the Ministry of Energy and Water Development? How are we going to have scientists who think independently and normally with the high levels of poverty due to the nonexistent of an agricultural system? At the end of the day, where are we going to get scientists who have to walk or ride a minibus from their homes to in Chilanga? We cannot even provide a simple vehicle to move them from point A to B.

What preoccupies the human mind is where to get food. Before one can start mixing chemicals or work with a pendulum, he or she must first know where to get food from. What also preoccupies the human mind is the safety of their children as well as their own wellbeing. At the end of the day, even if all these things were provided, the scientists will ask for tools to work with. Otherwise, they will not be able to work.

Madam Chairperson, I conclude, I would like to urge my colleagues in the ministries to link up all these issues. Their ministries are not entities. That is why all the ministries form what it is called a government. They should work together and therefore, should share responsibilities.

The hon. Minister of Works and Supply should know that if scientists will be driving on dilapidated roads, they will not reach their laboratories on time. Are you getting the sense?

Interjections

Mr Syakalima: All these issues are connected.

I have already told the hon. Minister of Defence that he looks swanky and fastidious …

Laughter

Mr Syakalima: … so my appeal to the hon. Members on your right, as I finish exuding my knowledge to them, is that these ministries are not entities on themselves. They must work collectively. Once one works in isolation then the cycle is already broken.

Madam Chairperson, I thank you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishya (Pambashe): Madam Chairperson, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate the Vote on the Floor of this House for the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training.

Madam Chairperson, I was affiliated to this Ministry up to 2001 and to NISIR from 1970 to 2001. I will refer to NISIR and technical training under TEVETA. However, allow me to first say something with regard to the policy statement read by the hon. Minister.

Madam Chairperson, the statement just talked about the basic and general issues that were non directional …

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Dr Chishya: The science and technology policy statement does not show how we have done, where we are going and for what reason. For example, what is the role of science and technology and how can it serve us solve the problem of energy that we are experiencing in Zambia?

Secondly, what is science and technology going to help us with the old network in Zambia? We do not have a policy on that coming from science and technology. In the 1970s we had it when the country was going through the foreign exchange problem and the Government then issued a policy statement that we should develop from our own resources.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishya: At the time, we did not want to buy equipment, we did not want to do anything, but we had to interpret that policy statement from the Government and products appeared on the market. Drinks such as tip-top were on the market to compete with coca cola. The Government wanted scientists to go in a particular direction it wanted. Having said this, I was expecting the hon. Minister to give us a policy direction in the area of science and technology.

Madam Chairperson, when we talk about science and technology, essentially, we are talking about theory, equipment, information and innovation. These four give us science and technology. Therefore, what problem do we have in Zambia? Firstly, we need to understand the terms science and technology. We should understand them from a point of view of sciences and technology in class, but it is far beyond that. Science and Technology simply mean a tool for development. If we refer to social development and in particular what the hon. Minister talked about with regard to the research institute such as NISIR, you will find that the problems that we have are to do with a lack of accountability and poor management of our resources.

NISIR, last year, was allocated K8.5 billion. This year, it has been allocated K10.3 billion, with about K7 billion for outstanding bills. Out of the K10.3 billion, you will be amazed to note that probably 90 per cent will go to emoluments and nothing else released for research. The 10 per cent that may remain will be for utilities and not even a little will go to services. In fact, there is state-of-the-art equipment that has been lying idle there because of a lack of skilled personnel.

We heard a few days ago from the statement from the Permanent Secretary from the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training saying that we will not make available the K7 billion to NISIR unless they prepare their survival plan or a strategic plan.

Mr Sichilima: What are you saying?

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Dr Chishya: I am not responsible for the ignorance of the hon. Member.

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Can you emphasis that?

Dr Chishya: Madam Chairperson, the problem emanates from the lack of skilled personnel or the gap which has been left by the people who were experienced who have left due to resignations and retirements is now filled by less experienced people and mostly by those who hold first degrees such as bachelor of Science (BSc.) holders.

Madam Chairperson, at the University of Zambia, BSc. holders are senior technicians, but at NISIR under the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training, they are programme leaders. When you have your BSc., you have just been born into the area of science and technology. You have not even started crawling. However, in this Ministry, these are fathers who are supposed to lead the research.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Dr Chishya: Madam Chairperson, let us understand this. If we get examples from other countries, researchers are mainly from universities; the lectures and so forth. These are used by the research institutions such as the Eastern Research Centre in Philadelphia and the Nautical Research in Massachusetts. I was privileged to be one of those who prepared the formulations for Apollo astronauts for that programme.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishya: Even here Zambia, you have qualified people who can conduct research; I have done so myself, even in areas that we may think are quite difficult such as nuclear research. In fact, the person leading the safety division at the International Atomic Agency is a Zambian, who also came from NISIR. He is the one conducting research in all the nuclear installations in the world.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishya: Actually, he was part and parcel of those who made the pilot plant at NISIR for the recovery of uranium also known as yellow cake which has now been abandoned. In other words, I am saying that the capacity is there, but how do we utilise the capacity in this area? The problem is that we do not have good planning.

Let me also talk about the TEVETA programme. Before I do so, I would like to say something with regard to the factors that affect productivity in industry. Factors such as technology contribute about 40 per cent, capital contributes about 25 per cent, marker about 12 per cent and raw material 09 per cent.

Here in Zambia, when you talk about raw materials, ingredients are mostly imported. The quality of labour will contribute about 14 per cent of the economy, and this is an area where all of us can put in quite a lot. We cannot contribute to technology because of the problems that we are talking about. We cannot contribute to capital either because we like inviting investors. The population of this country is about 11 million, but we still cannot make meaningful contribution to our market, which falls at 12 per cent.  Finland has a population of 8 million people and their market is many folds greater than our market because of technology and skilled labour.

If we look at the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP), science and technology is an area which is not going to attract donor funding. This means that the Government has to bear all the costs for promoting it. The Government has stated in the FNDP and Vision 2030 that science and technology will be the engine for the actualisation of the Vision. However, the budget on science and technology does not reflect the Government’s commitment. All we have to do in terms of science and technology is organise all the skilled people we have in the country.

The Ministry is saying it will procure the equipment. That is well and good, but the already existing equipment is just gathering dust. Further, the skills which are coming from TEVET programmes are also contrary to what the industry is looking for. If the TEVET programmes are not producing graduates who are required by the industry, what are we achieving by funding those programmes from which our industry will not benefit? Therefore, we need to have a synergy between the technology existing in the industry and what we train through the TEVET programme. Without this, science and technology will always lag behind.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chishya: We should not treat science and technology like any other subject. It is not like the Civics or Chemistry we learn in class. That is the work of education. Science and technology is a way of actualising the natural understanding of the environment in order to serve or advance our way of life.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: Madam Chairperson, I am very grateful for the comments and sentiments by Hon. Matongo that we should improve on research and development. We are a listening Government. He said that Kasiya is a college for females, but in order to balance gender, he requires a college for males too. I am not promising what I cannot give, but we will look into that. Like I said, it is not a promise, Hon. Machungwa, through the Chair.

Laughter

Mr Daka: Hon. Mabenga talked about JETS, an exhibition that encompasses all the provinces. We have taken note of what he said.

The GMO laboratory at Mount Makulu is one of the best laboratories that we have under the Southern African Development Community (SADC), today. Recently, the laboratory was refurbished and is doing very well. The SADC countries are going to utilise that laboratory to further determine the GMOs.

Hon. Simuusa said that we should not just be a talk shop. We are not a talk shop. We mean well. We are a listening Government and that is why we are revising certain policies. These are the policies that were left by Dr Chishya who was at NISIR for thirty years.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Daka: He did make a premise and was one of the advisers to the hon. Minister, Dr Kabunda Kayongo. We are now revising those policies.

Hon. Syakalima …

Mr Magande: He also produced Maheu.

Mr Daka: He also produced Maheu, which he never patented.

Laughter

Mr Daka: This is why I have been saying that these colleges must commercialise and be weaned off the Government. If those experiments on products that have come through such as the moringa tree were put to good use and patented, the laboratories and institutions would be self-sustaining.

Hon. Syakalima talked about ICT. He also talked about Mr Paul Kagame whose country just came out of war. Today, Rwanda is one of the most advanced countries. He also lamented that we cannot develop out of hunger. We do appreciate that. This is why if you look around Parliament today, you will see people digging trenches to set up the Optic Fibre in order to take laser to all the schools and health centres. This is being done under this Government.

Mr V. Mwale: Hear, hear!

Mr Daka: Hon. Mabenga spoke about the allocation of K117 million. That is money meant to review science and technology. The total Budget for the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training this year is K135,610,621,478. I just wanted to clarify this.

Madam Chairperson, in 2007, my Ministry spent K2.5 billion in rehabilitating a science laboratory at NISIR. I take cognisance of this.

I would like to thank all those who have contributed and those who wanted to contribute but have not.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Changwe: Quality!

Mr Mubika: Ema Ministers aya.

The Chairperson: Order!

Vote 65/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 65/02 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 65/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE – 65/06 (Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training – Department of Science and Technology – K8,594,205,816).

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): May I have clarification on Programme 10, Activity 01 – Scholarships to Female Students – K524,800,00 and Activity 02, Junior Engineers, Technicians and Scientists (JETS) has no allocation although Hon. Mabenga said there was an allocation of K10,000,000, for JETS. I would like the hon. Minister to clarify why there is such a bias?

Mr Daka: Madam Chairperson, on Programme 10, Activity 01 – Scholarships to Female Students – K524,800,000 and Activity 02, Junior Engineers, Technicians and Scientists (JETS) has no allocation. However, JETS has been budgeted for under the Ministry of Education. The other programmes have been going on and these female students are almost graduating.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Ms Imbwae (Lukulu West): May I have clarification on Programme 7, Activity 01 – Monitor Performance of the Ministry of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (MSTVT) Science and Technology Institutions has no allocation this year while last year there was a provision of K13,500,000. Is there going to be no monitoring or this has been provided for somewhere else?

Mr Daka: Madam, this would be covered by the Vocational Educational Training (VET) Department.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Vote 65/06 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote65/10 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

VOTE 99 – (Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure – (K13,761,400894,438).

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Madam Chairperson, it is, indeed, a pleasure for me to have this opportunity to say a few words on this particular Head as we come to a very productive debate.

Madam, this is another Head that falls under my Ministry just like Head 21 which this House has already voted on. Head 99 deals mainly with the Statutory and Constitutional functions vis-à-vis debt service; both domestic and external.

As I indicated earlier during my presentation on Head 37, my Ministry has been taking measures in support of the debt management strategy through effective co-ordination amongst debt management, fiscal and monetary policies as well as building of institutional and operational capacity under the Public Expenditure Management and Financial Accountability Programme (PEMFA). This effort is not only limited within my Ministry, but also other institutions that are involved in public debt contraction and management.

Madam Chairperson, as a result of the Highly Indebted Poor Country (HIPC) and Multilateral Debt Relief Initiative (MDRI) that the country has received, both total external debt and interest payment have drastically reduced as clearly evidenced in the Budget Estimates. The improved fiscal management and the space created by the two initiatives have also lead to the decrease in domestic debt, reflecting tight use of Government securities for monetary and fiscal policy operations. This has been achieved through the Government’s strategy of lengthening the maturity structure of the domestic debt portfolio in order to minimise risks associated with short-term debt and the reduction in the cost associated with interest rate volatility. The freed debt service resources have created fiscal space for financing increased Government expenditure in line with the Fifth National Development Plan as clearly evidenced by some of the estimates that we have gone through in the last few weeks.

Madam, the Government has taken a number of measures to ensure debt sustainability. These include the following:

(a) borrowing on concessional terms mostly comparable to the International Development Association (IDA) terms where grant resources are not available;

(b) non-issuance of Government guarantees unless in exceptional circumstances and for high value projects with a predetermined return on investment;

(c) strengthening public expenditure management; and

(d) limiting domestic borrowing as a share of the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) which in turn has helped to free more resources within the banking system for private sector investment.

Madam Chairperson, to ensure that Zambia’s debt continues to be sustainable, my Ministry regularly conducts debt sustainability analysis upon which the Government makes borrowing decisions. The Government’s strategy in this regard is to direct non-concessional resources, when contracted, to economically viable and growth-enhancing areas such as infrastructure projects. This ensures debt servicing capacity, as such projects are economically viable and self-sustaining.

Madam Chairperson, another important provision under this Head is contingency. This is meant for the Government to be able to meet unbudgeted for and unforeseen expenditure such as the cost of mitigating the effects of the current floods that have ravaged some parts of our country.

Madam, the above are the few areas I wish to highlight under this particular Head. I seek the concurrence of this House to the estimates presented.

I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, I realise it is early in the morning and I will be very brief. To start my debate, let me commend the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for his Budget. It might be noted by some that ever since 2002, this is the first Budget that has passed through this House with the least number of amendments.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Madam, certainly, the hon. Minister deserves to be commended for coming up with a Budget that has been received with so much satisfaction by the whole House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda: Madam, although this could also be an indication of the fact that there was a lot of under hand methods used by the hon. Minister and his colleagues. Nonetheless, he still deserves to be commended.

Madam, on this particular Head, I am particularly concerned with the Vote that received the least attention of the hon. Minister and that is contingency. The hon. Minister stated very clearly that the contingency Vote is meant for unforeseen and unbudgeted expenditure. Nonetheless, I am sure the hon. Minister is as aware as I am that this Vote has been a Vote that has been pregnant year after year, but has never been able to deliver, and yet every single year, the hon. Minister has had to deal with unforeseen circumstances.

For instance, last year, there were floods in this country and the hon. Minister had to mobilise K41 billion to mitigate the impact of the floods in some parts of this country. That K41 billion was introduced as Supplementary Expenditure. It did not come from the Contingency Fund. As financial experts will know, the Contingency Fund in any financial firm, including Government, is the vote of first call in the event of unforeseen circumstances requiring funding. It is also the vote of first call in the event that some votes overshoot the allocated Budget.

Madam, interesting enough, for Hon. Magande, this Vote has been redundant ever since 2002. What is the reason for the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to mobilise resources and come to this House asking for Supplementary Expenditure even before he touches the contingency that has been approved by this House? I want to illustrate what I am saying with figures that are extracted from the Budget from 2002 to 2007.

Madam, in 2002, this House appropriated K25 billion to the Contingency Fund. By the term of the fiscal year 2002, Hon. Magande reported or his predecessor then reported the saving on the contingency of the full amount of K25 billion, and yet this House was asked to supplement his Budget.

Madam, in 2005, this House, allocated K11,251,992,770. At the term of that fiscal year, Hon. Magande reported that they had a saving in contingency of even higher than what this House had allocated. He recorded a saving of K12,180,000,000, and yet in those years, he still came to this House with Supplementary Expenditure over and above what he has allocated in contingency.

Madam, as though that was not enough, in 2007, Hon. Magande, asked this House to allocate K12 billion. In that same year, Hon. Magande came to this House and asked this House to approve Supplementary Expenditure to the volume of K950 billion. This is the money he came and asked this House to approve as Supplementary Expenditure. All votes in the Budget 2007, except seven, had Supplementary Expenditure.

Madam, only one active vote, that is for the Ministry of Justice, recorded a saving of K34 billion, and yet the K12 billion that this House allowed Hon. Magande to use in the event of unforeseen circumstances, such as the floods he was talking about or in the event of some of his colleagues overshooting their Budget. That is the money he should have got, and yet recorded a saving in contingency. What are we using the contingency vote for?

Madam, if year in and year out we are not calling on the contingency, we are instead coming to Parliament to ask for Supplementary Expenditure, what is the reason for having the contingency vote? Any student of accountancy will tell you that this kind of budgeting and reporting in the case of the contingency vote is being used for balancing purposes. That is what any student of accountancy will tell you. The ordinary process is that before you ask for additional funding, you exhaust that which you asked for as safeguard money.

Madam, saying this, I would like to just comment a little on what my good friend and brother, hon. Member for Mazabuka said, and I agree with him because he too understands accounts. As far as he was concerned, we do not know the magnitude of the flood to come this year and he said, “can we reserve this K90 billion for those floods, just in case we are hit by floods.” I wish that was true, but experience shows that as far as Hon. Magande is concerned, the contingency is not used for such purposes.

Madam Chairperson, since 2002, this Government has been allocating an average of 0.1 per cent of the Budget in contingency. 0.1 per cent of the total budget in contingency is very acceptable and nobody would quarrel about that. Had the money been spent every year, I would not have had any reason to debate. The trouble is, even the 0.1 per cent had never been used. In this year’s Budget, when the theme of the Budget is, “Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation”, Hon. Magande, rather giving youths K15 billion, he has chosen to increase contingency from 0.1 per cent to 0.7 per cent of the total Budget which is K90 billion. From K12 billion, last year, …

Mr Musosha: On a point of order, Madam Chairperson.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Mr Musosha: Madam Chairperson, I thank you for allowing me to raise this point of order and I will need your very serious ruling. The point the hon. Member of Parliament is raising; that of K15 billion, was adequately debated. Is he in order, therefore, to bring it, again, on the Floor of this House?

Interruptions

The Chairperson: Order! Only one Chair can rule. The hon. Member who has raised a point of order is concerned that Hon. Lubinda is debating an issue that was raised through an earlier suggested amendment ,and at that time, it was truly debated on. Therefore the debate may just be a kind of tedious repetition for the House. The Chair, however, allows Mr Lubinda to exhaust himself on this matter.

The hon. member may continue, please.

Mr Lubinda: Thank you very much, Madam Chairperson for your intervention. I would like to reiterate that I appreciate that it is early in the morning and obviously we would like to take some rest.

Madam Chairperson, the point I am making is that in the year when the theme of the Budget is “Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation”, it does not make sufficient sense to increase the contingency which, as I said, has been a redundant vote, from 0.1 per cent to 0.7 per cent. I would also like to inform this House that for example, last year, besides the K41 billion which Hon. Magande and the MMD Government managed to mobilise for the floods, they also managed to mobilise an additional K11 billion which went to pay the unexpected and unforeseen Donegal costs without touching the K12 billion in contingency.

I would like to end here by appealing to the hon. Minister that today, this House is approving K90 billion as contingency for the 2008 in a Budget that has received minimal amendments. Congratulations to the hon. Minister. Nonetheless, can you please make sure that this Vote is not used for balancing purposes so that when you come to this House with supplementary requests, you first demonstrate that the K90 billion has been unlocked and used before asking for any extra money to go into financing the Budget of 2008. I am only asking the hon. Minister to be in keeping with prudent financial management so that next year, we do not have quarrels over such matters.

Madam Chair, I am sure that my uncle, Hon. Magande, listens to me very well and knows that I am doing this to make sure that there is no quarrel over matters that should be very easy and straightforward.

I thank you very sincerely and good morning. To Hon. Magande, I say congratulations.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Madam Chairperson, I will be very brief and a very good morning to everyone.

Madam Chairperson, I would like to deal with the aspect of the contingency fund. There is a historic fact that we must all come to grips with. When the so-called wind of change came, we were betrayed by the West. We were excited by the concept of relief food, …

Hon. UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: … a concept that was not there before. As a child of political history, born into politics, there was nothing like relief food. When the new Government came into power, people did not really understand what the West was up to. We had drought and the concept of relief food was highly promoted, but it destroyed our people. Today everyone wants relief food. Something must be done, eventually, to change this culture because it is destroying our people.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: People have even forgotten about mechanisms of coping with disasters and have only resorted to crying for relief food even when they have goats and cattle.

Mr Sichilima: Bwekeshapo, bwekeshapo!

Mr Hamududu: However, the policies of the Government, together with some people who are making noise, are part of this problem. We must not play around with the governance of the country.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: As we go along, we shall write history properly to expose some of the misdeeds. That is when we will move forward properly.

Major Chizhyuka: The Truth Commission.

Mr Hamududu: The country has completely been destroyed to the extent that even after a small flood, people cry for relief food. In the meantime, I want to advise the Executive that we give people relief food while we create a mechanism to reverse this very bad phenomenon.

Hon. MMD Member: Especially in Bweengwa.

Mr Hamududu: The people of Bweengwa are very rich. They do not cry like other people. I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister, through the Chairperson, that we use this contingency vote to create a permanent structural disaster mitigation mechanism in the southern part of this country. I am not talking about the Southern Province alone, but part of the Eastern, Lusaka, Southern, Central and the Western Provinces. The southern half of the country is in a situation of unpredictable weather pattern. Firstly, there was a drought, and now there are floods. This part of Zambia will have this as a permanent feature. If this Government could use this money for mass dam construction …

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: …as one way to have a structural mitigation mechanism against this problem that has come to stay, we would make headway. This year, we had good rains, but next year we might have a drought. I want to tell you that the southern half of this country should go livestock. It has a high value and can survive in those semi savannas. I think maize growing can shift to the central and northern parts of Zambia. The southern part, parts of Botswana and Namibia is a livestock area and is semi savanna. You can have green places everywhere else, but animals do well in the savannas.

Dr Machungwa: On appoint of order, Madam.

The Chairperson: A point of order is raised.

Dr Machungwa: Madam Chairperson, I thank you. Is my brother who normally debates so well in order to debate agriculture, disaster management and mitigation and suggesting that a contingency becomes a permanent fund for dealing with disasters when we have a proper vote that deals with that? It is early in the morning, is he in order to continue belabouring that point when he is supposed to be debating Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure, not other votes that we have already covered.

The Chairperson: The concern of the hon. Member who has raised the point of order is that the hon. Member debating is almost re-opening issues that have already been dealt with. He says that it is early in the morning and maybe it is the morning which is making the hon. Member develop new ideas.

Laughter

The Chairperson: However, the Chairperson guides that let us be very specific so that we move on.

The hon. Member may continue, please.

Mr Hamududu: Madam Chairperson, I understand this very well. My mind is very clear. Last year, we had floods and we still have them this year. Dams are a matter of contingency and that is very clear. It is as simple as that.

In summary, I would like to say that if this money is used for dam construction, we will have saved a lot of expenditure in future for this Government. The southern part of this country will have created a mechanism to avoid over expenditure on relief food and hand outs, because this has become a permanent feature of the southern half of this country. It is as simple as that.

Finally, I would like to say that the previous interjection has reminded me that we all need to go to next door to make a Constitution that will stand the test of time. As for those people who are just politicking, politics must be removed from this important process.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Once and for all, we want to make a Constitution that will be pro-development.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: This is not a simple matter like that of the ‘Third Term’ that was so unconstitutional, but a very serious one from which politics must be removed.

 Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Therefore, Madam Chairperson, for those who are saying that a lot of money is being spent on this process are doing so because they do not know how to use calculators. This is very little money. To create a document that will stand the test of time is not a joke. A Constitution is the supreme document of this country.

Madam Chairperson, already, we have a problem in this country because the budget cycle is defective and it is affecting development. Therefore, those who do not want to come on board must just keep quiet and let those who understand these issues create a Constitution for the betterment of our children and create a stable Zambian society.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: You are free to say that …

The Chairperson: Order! Order! In fact, the hon. Member has gone outside this provision. You have to summarise and finish.

Can the hon. Member continue, please.

Mr Hamududu: Madam Chairperson, in conclusion, I would like to say that we are very clear in our minds about what we are going to do next door and we want to do the very best. As for those who are afraid of their skeletons, that is their own problem.

 I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Madam, Chairperson, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to wind up debate on this very important Vote which relates to payments of debt.

Madam Chairperson, let me take the opportunity to explain the issue which Hon. Lubinda took all his time to elaborate.

Madam Chairperson, on Page 1558 of the Yellow Book, you will find a figure of K246,620,000,000 which was voted for last year. Against that figure, you will find that there is no expenditure. The same on Page 1557, against the figure of K12,000,000,000, there was no expenditure. These are holding Votes. The money is transferred to the spending departments. If you go to pages 7 and 10 - Office of the Vice-President  - Disaster Management and Mitigation Department, you will find that we spent more than K40,000,000,000. Part of the K40,000,000,000 is the K12,000,000,000 which came from contingency.

Madam Chairperson, the money which is at page 1558 which is K246,620,000,000 was used to pay  wage increments for the rest of the Civil Service. Therefore, that money is not spent under that Vote, but is moved out. As for Hon. Lubinda who says that I am his uncle, when an uncle is speaking, a nephew is supposed to listen, and not interject.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, in the Estimates Book, figures in brackets simply mean that the amounts were moved from those votes to somewhere else for expending. If Hon. Lubinda can go back to his book on Supplementary Estimates, he will find that under the Office of the Vice-President, the K40 billion will indicate where it came from, and K12 billion out of that it will indicate that it came from contingency. That is how we do the accounting, just as a way of illustration for him.

Laughter

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I want to say that Hon. Hamududu talked about contingency, but like it was raised in the point of order,   really, a contingency is something unforeseen.

Madam Chairperson, at the moment, the Office of the Vice-President is going round the country to estimate the damage of the floods.

 Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: That is why we could not put a figure under the office of the Vice-President. Within this month and next month or by the end of April, we will know the extent of the damage, and will move money for spending under the Office of the Vice-President. That is why we put it in an account where it is reserved. This is the reason it is under contingency.

 I would also like to inform Hon. Hamududu that the money for constructing dams and other activities should be in the estimates of the ministries responsible while we are discussing, because if we consider the construction of dams a contingency, then my good friend on my right will have no job to do for the rest of the year. We must make sure that he drills the dams from his own allocation.

Madam Chairperson, let me say that I am most grateful and it has been, indeed, a nice time to discuss this matter.

 I thank you, Madam Chairperson.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear! 

Vote 99/01 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

VOTE 99/02 – (Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure – Debt Service Internal – K650,749,450,881).

Mr Milupi (Luena): Madam Chairperson, my understanding of the word service is the repayment of the principal amount as well as interest. In terms of this Head - Internal Debt Service - K650,749,881, where in this Vote is the amount that the hon. Minister promised that he would use to liquidate the debt that is attributable to pensions for civil servants.

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, according to the operations of the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, this could be treated as pension arrears. Therefore, it is not a debt as such, because most of the amount owing to pensions is not borrowed money. Actually, it is money that was not remitted to the Pensions Board and, therefore, is not an internal debt. However, I am aware that the Government borrowed a small amount of this money. Actually, it is money that was not remitted to the Pensions Board.

I thank you, Madam.

Vote 99/03 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 99/04 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Vote 99/05 ordered to stand part of the Estimates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear! Boma!

_______

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The Estimates of Expenditure (Including Capital and Constitutional and Statutory Expenditure) for the year 1st January, 2008 to 31st December, 2008 were reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendments.

Report adopted and Mr Speaker appointed the Minister of Finance and National Planning to be a committee of one to bring in the necessary Bill to give effect to the resolution of the Committee of Supply.

________

BILL

FIRST READING
 
The Appropriation, Bill, 2008

Second Reading, now.

SECOND READING

THE APPROPRIATION BILL, 2008

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Mr Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled ‘An Act to Authorise Expenditure from the General Revenues of the Republic, of Moneys Required for the Services of the Republic, during the Financial Year ending 31st December, 2008 not exceeding in the Aggregate K13,761,400,894,448.’

The Bill before the House is the culmination of the task that we studied in the Committee of Supply some time back. I wish to take this opportunity to express my sincere thanks to you, Mr Speaker, for the noble guidance in the conduct of business of the House. Commendations also go to the Deputy Speaker and the Deputy Chairperson of Committees of the Whole House, who have contributed immensely to this entire process.

Mr Speaker, let me also recognise the contribution made by the Leader of Government Business in the House for ensuring that the House was always adequately organised for business. I will, indeed, be failing in my duties, Sir, if I do not mention how indebted I am to the office of the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the invariable assistance rendered during the deliberations on the motions.

Lastly but not the least, Mr Speaker, may I pay tribute to my hon. Colleagues through the various committees and individually, for their input in the entire process. The debates were, indeed, inspiring and passionate although at times emotional. This demonstrates some leaf of patriotism by this House when it comes to issues touching the lives of the Zambian people.

Mr Speaker, as this House approves the 2008 Budget, one major and important task ahead of us is its implementation and execution so that the theme of the Budget Address is, indeed, realised. I am aware of that the success of the Budget largely depends on the realisation of the estimates of revenue required to finance the expenditure programmes that we have agreed upon. It is with the foregoing, that my Ministry will ensure that resources are mobilised to the expected levels and the same are dispersed timely to the ministries, provinces and the spending agencies so that programmes approved by this august House are fully implemented on time.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Magande: This, however, Mr Speaker, is not the end in itself as greater effort must be made in ensuring that the spending agencies utilise monies given to them on approved programmes and in an appropriate manner. My ministry will also continue to implement structural changes, as I announced before, to effectively improve the management and accountability of public resources.

Mr Speaker, may I, at this juncture, remind my hon. Colleagues that they have a central role to play in overseeing the implementation of programmes and the execution of the 2008 Budget. However, the involvement of most of us in the Constitution-making process means that we will be away from our constituencies for a considerable period of time. This will make effective monitoring of the programmes virtually impossible.

Mr Speaker, may I plead with those who are attending the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) to look at the recommendations on the Budget and financial management of the public resources so that we can come up with provisions in the Constitution that are going to assist the public raise resources and spend them effectively and efficiently.

Mr Speaker, the question is who is going to fill the vacuum that those who will not be here will leave? I wish to challenge the other stakeholders, including individual Zambians to take the role of those who might not be there in supervising and monitoring the implementation of projects. Every Zambian must take a keen interest in issues relating to the development of our country. I, therefore, call upon them to partner with the Government and get involved, especially in capital projects contained in the 2008 Budget. Successful execution of these programmes is the key to achieving the set targets and improving the quality of service to our people.

Mr Speaker, with regard to a number of issues relating to the Budget that have been raised during our debate of the Motion, the Government and particularly my Ministry has taken note of them and we hope to address some of them in the future. The Government will continue with its agenda on tax reform so that the tax system can be equitable, efficient and cost effective and at the same time, be able to provide adequate resources for national development. In the area of expenditure, the Government intends to conduct a review so as to improve budget execution that will ultimately contribute to the improvement of the Public Service delivery system.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The question is that the Bill be now read a second time. Any further debate?

Mr L. J. Mulenga wanted to stand and he fell down.

Laughter

Mr Magande: Mr Speaker, clearly, I am overwhelmed by the support that has come from my colleagues in supporting this Bill and I want to thank them all.

I thank you, Sir.

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee now Thursday, 20th March, 2008.

_____

BILL

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

THE APPROPRIATION BILL, 2008

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedules on pages 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 and 26, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

_____

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Appropriation Bill, 2008

Third Reading today.

____________

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adjourn.

Hon. Members: Sine die!

Mr Speaker: Order! He is right.

Question put and agreed to.

____________

The House adjourned accordingly at 0246 hours on Friday, 21st March, 2008, sine die.