DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES OF THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 12th August, 2008

The House met at 1430 hours

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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MINISTERIAL STATEMENT

ISSUANCE OF DIGITALISED PASSPORTS

The Minister of Home Affairs (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Madam Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity given to me to announce the introduction of the new digitalised passport with advanced security features.

I wish to inform this House that Zambia has had two types of passports since independence in 1964, namely, the hand-written passport and the machine readable passport. The machine readable passport was introduced in December, 1997. This passport with a stuck in photo has become outdated and is being phased out internationally for security reasons.

The Government has been compelled to introduce the digitalised computerised machine readable passport for the following reasons:

(i) the current passport has been susceptible to forgeries, vulnerable to tampering with photographs and was being used in child tracking;

(ii) cases of Zambian nationals resorting to selling their passports to foreigners for financial gain and claiming that their passports had been stolen were becoming alarmingly frequent. This was because the current passport did not possess sufficient security features. Indeed, it was easy for fraudsters to copy this passport and make counterfeits which they used. The Government had to promptly take measures to eradicate the scourge;

(iii) the current passport is being discouraged from circulation by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO) and the international community is compelled to issue more secure digitalised machine readable passports by the 1st of April, 2010.

Madam Speaker, the project of the production of a new passport started about two years ago. The Ministry of Home Affairs, working with the relevant Government security wings, shopped around the world for credible companies that would and could, indeed, produce a state of the art passport for Zambia. A few companies were identified and the tender process followed through the Zambia National Tender Board. A German company, Giesecke and Devrient, emerged successful and was awarded the contract to supply, deliver and, indeed, install a digitalised photograph machine readable passport issuance system for the Department of National Registration Passport and Citizenship in October, 2006.

Germany, Madam Speaker, is well known worldwide for maintaining superior standards in manufacturing quality goods and also in the advancement of technology internationally. Giesecke and Devrient or G and D, in short, is currently involved in the production of high security documentation for different governments in Europe, Africa and elsewhere around the world.
 
Due to the advanced technology that has come with this new passport issuance system, it became necessary to construct a new building to house the new equipment. I am happy that we now have a new building of high quality along Government Road that houses the new passport issuance system.

Madam Speaker, the new passport building is a state of the art building installed with modern technology and wonderful gadgets to complement the passport issuance system from Germany. We have also rehabilitated and modernised two other issuing centres in Ndola and Livingstone. The Lusaka Passport Office will cater for Lusaka, Central, and Eastern provinces and Zambian missions abroad. The Ndola Passport Office will cater for Copperbelt, Luapula, Northern and North-Western provinces. The Livingstone Passport Office will cater for Southern and Western provinces.

The procedure is that all provincial passport offices and missions abroad will accept application forms for passports and issue receipts. The application forms, together with two passport size photos in colour with a white or grey background, will be sent to the issuing centres where they will be processed. The issued passports will then be returned to the receiving centres where they will be collected by the respective applicants on the production of an original general receipt by the Government and national identity documentation. At this stage, the old passport will be surrendered and cancelled. A passport will be ready for collection within twenty-one working days of the application forms being received by the passport issuing centre, provided all requirements are complied with.

Madam Speaker, the new Zambian passport has several high-tech security features which will make it impossible for fraudsters to counterfeit. The digitalised passport can only be produced electronically. Indeed, it is one that will stand the test of time.

There will be three types of passports issued, namely, the Diplomatic Passport, the thirty-two paged National Passport that will cost K300,000 and the forty-eight paged National Passport that will cost K500,000. These will be valid for ten years.

Finally, Madam Speaker, I wish to announce that there will be a six month period for change from the current to the new passport effective 1st September, 2008. The International Civil Aviation regulations do not allow two different passports to be in circulation for a long period.

In conclusion, Madam Speaker, I wish, through this august House, to urge all Zambian citizens to guard their passports jealously. Passports signify the Government’s commitment to fulfilling the people of Zambia’s right of freedom of movement, which is enshrined in the Constitution. The passport should, therefore, be kept safe and not misused in any way.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mushili (Ndola Central): Madam Speaker, with the introduction of the new machines and centralisation of the issuing offices to Lusaka, Livingstone and Ndola, how will people be issued passports without being subjected to queuing up at the passport offices as this is what has caused a lot of corruption?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, queuing up will be eradicated totally because the new equipment that we have put in place produces more than 1000 passports in 24 hours. Therefore, because of this new technology, there is no need for our people to queue up.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs how he expects an ordinary Zambian to obtain a passport which costs K500,000 from K72,000, which is more than the minimum wage of a Zambian employee.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha:  Madam Speaker, it is not all wage earners that are going to travel using the passport.

Hon. Opposition Members: Ahh?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, it is not all wage earners that are going to travel using the passport. Others may travel within Zambia where they do not need the passport. The Government has put in place two passports. Those that cannot afford the K500,000 one can afford the K300,000 passport. The K300,000 passport, if you calculate, works out to a person spending US$12 a day for the next ten years unless the hon. Member of Parliament wants the Government to go so low and subsidise the passports as we did with the previous ones. There is need for us to move and allow for the new passport to be in the hands of people who are going to use it effectively. It is not a national registration card, but a passport for those that want to travel outside the borders of Zambia.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Madam Speaker, I would like to know how much revenue the Government expects to collect from this exercise and if that revenue will take into account the cost of acquiring the equipment which will be used.

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, the revenue to be collected from the issuance of the passports will cover the cost of the equipment over a period of time. We will be able to recover that money and put it in the general revenue to improve the quality of other areas like the national registration card. The amount of money that is going to be collected from these passports is well over K60 billion.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Imasiku (Liuwa): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out whether the hon. Minister considered the distance involved when the Western Province was paired with Livingstone. I know that Sesheke is near Livingstone, but has he considered places like Kalabo and Lukulu which are closer to Lusaka? Why have they not been paired with Lusaka instead of Livingstone?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, great consideration was made to ensure that the records that are held for the Western Province in Livingstone can be accessed rather than be transferred to Lusaka. A further consideration was to avoid overloading Lusaka. There will be no difficulty. We will meet the twenty-one days on every passport, even in Mongu.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. K. B. Banda, SC (Chasefu): Madam Speaker, one of the reasons advanced by the hon. Minister for changing the passport is that Zambians have been selling passports for financial gain. Could he tell this House how many Zambians have been arrested for this and how many have been convicted.

 Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, I wish to tell this august House that I cannot tell the exact number of Zambians who have been arrested and prosecuted. This is because, most of the time, Zambians report the loss of their passports to the police and eventually a Nigerian or Ghanaian is arrested for drug trafficking with names such as Mulenga, Chanda, Sililo, Muyunda and Banda.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shikapwasha.

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, we have not seen even one Shikapwasha yet.

Laughter

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, it is not easy to prosecute these people because they come with police reports indicating that they lost their passport.  Therefore, cases of prosecution are really minimal. I do not have to give examples because the hon. Members of Parliament here, especially on your left, are aware of the issues regarding lost passports.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Laughter

Hon. PF Members: Ahh!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs has assured this nation that the new passport is full proof. What assurance can he give this august House that official corruption, which has reached beyond acceptable levels, will be totally eradicated at the passport office?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, I wish to assure this august House and the nation at large that there is not going to be any corruption with regard to passports. We have put in place measures which I cannot divulge because that will compromise the very exercise of securing the passports. In order to ensure that there are no corrupt activities regarding the new passport, very few people are involved in its production. In addition, all those that are involved in the production of the new passport were recruited recently and are, therefore, fresh blood.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Banda (Chililabombwe): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out what will happen to people, especially students who are outside the country in countries where our embassies do not exist.

Lieutenant Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, countries where we have not established offices physically are accredited to our nearest embassies. All students and everybody who is abroad know the procedure of having their passports renewed. Through the nearest mission, one can collect the forms and fill them in and pass them on to the nearest mission. The mission will send them here by diplomatic bag. We will work on them within twenty-one days and the passport will be sent back to that mission.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Madam Speaker, could the hon. Minister confirm to the House that machines to read these passports will be installed at every point and airport in the country. Secondly, is Zambia the only country in the Southern Africa Development Community (SADC) region that has passports that are not machine readable?

Lieutenant Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Member of Parliament that machines to read these passports are already in place. I also want to state that in the SADC region, Zambia has probably been one of the last countries to deal with this particular issue. You may recall that at certain times South Africa used to reject the handwritten passports that were issued from Zambia because they could not be machine read in South Africa. They used to reject those passports and our people had difficulties going to do business in South Africa. Therefore, this is a move that is line with the rest of the countries in the SADC region and, indeed, the world over.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwenzi): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out whether fees for travel documents have also been hiked and what security measures have been put in place for them considering that the fees for the thirty-two and forty-eight paged passports have been hiked to K300,000 and K500,000 respectively.
Lieutenant Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, first and foremost, travel documents will only be issued in emergencies. For example, if an individual loses a passport in London, then the London office will be authorised to issue a one-way travel document back to Zambia.

Interruptions

Lieutenant Shikapwasha: Once in Zambia, that person can apply for a new passport. No travel documents will be issued out of Zambia to go to any country because they will not be accepted internationally. International civil aviation no longer accepts travel documents.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Minister for the job well done. However, I would like to ask him whether provincial offices are going to be provided with the same equipment which has been installed here in Lusaka.

Lieutenant Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, currently, the centres that I have mentioned, that is, Ndola, Livingstone and Lusaka will cater for the rest of the country. Forms will be available in provincial centres for people to fill in and submit to Lusaka, Ndola or Livingstone. The passport will be back in Kasama, Chipata or Lundazi within the targetted period of twenty-one days. We may, as we develop the technology and as we increase our manpower, consider whether provincial centres can also be catered for.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, freedom of movement is a fundamental and human right enshrined in our Constitution and in various international conventions. Does the hon. Minister not consider pegging the fees for the passports at K300,000 and K500,000 an infringement on the freedom of movement for the poor in our society who might at some point need to travel out of the country?

Lieutenant Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, I would like to inform the hon. Member of Parliament for Luapula Constituency and former Minister of Home Affairs, who did very well and was very good at imprisoning people, …

Laughter

Lieutenant Shikapwasha: … that the freedom of movement …

Dr Machungwa: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Laughter

Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, who is doing so well in his position, knows very well that a Minister does not imprison. It is only courts that can imprison people. Is he, therefore, in order to suggest that I, in performing my duty as then Minister of Home Affairs, was able to imprison people …

Laughter

Dr Machungwa: … when he knows that I cannot imprison anybody? Is he in order, Madam Speaker?

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Minister is definitely not in order …

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: … because he does not imprison people himself. May the hon. Minister continue, please.

Lieutenant Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, the question raised by the hon. Member of Parliament for Luapula Constituency, my brother and colleague, was about freedom of movement. I would like to inform him that the freedom of movement has not been infringed upon because of the passport fees. I am sure that if you apply the same principle, not anybody can jump onto an airline to go to London or America because the cost is too high. However, we have considered the fact that these passports are affordable to all Zambians with intentions to travel outside the borders of Zambia. We have also compared the cost of our passports to that of the countries around us. We found that our passport fees are within the same margin.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Madam Speaker, passes are for people who live around the borders. However, in Kazungula, people from all over get passes because they say they cannot afford passports. What is the Government going to do to ensure that only people who live in border areas get passes and the rest get passports even if their cost has been increased from K72,000 to K500,000?

Lieutenant Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, first and foremost, the issue of passes has worked very well in most border areas. They allow our people to visit their relatives on the other side because the colonialists drew the borders in the middle of their villages. This has been dealt with and we think it is working well on the borders with Botswana, Namibia, Zimbabwe, the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC), Tanzania and Malawi. The principal organs of the provincial organisation as well as the Council of Ministers meet continuously.

However, what is happening now is that the conditions regarding passes are being flouted by those that issue them. This is because they are giving them to people that do not live in those areas. Recently, one of the border posts in Botswana was used greatly for the issuance of such passes to enter Namibia. Some Congolese that were coming to Zambia obtained passes from there. Therefore, I can assure the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola that the Government has dealt with that issue and will continue to revamp and renew our methods of detection.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda (Kankoyo): Madam Speaker, a national registration card provides vital information for the issuance of a passport. According to what we have seen, this Government has concentrated on improving the features on the passport leaving the national registration card vulnerable to abuse. Now, is it logical to go on like this?

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Speaker, the next big programme for my ministry and this Government is the issue of national registration cards. As you know, the national registration card is used by all Zambians in various aspects of identification as well as to vote. It is important that people must vote and use their national registration cards. Therefore, we need to put in place a mechanism for the rest of Zambia to receive the new national registration cards and this is being done.

As for the issuance of passports, the information that is available now is that those that are going to receive new passports are those that are going to renew theirs. Indeed, on the new passports that are going to come through, there is a mechanism of detection to find out whether these people are actually Zambians or non-Zambians even on presentation of the national registration cards.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER{mospagebreak}

THE RURAL ELECTRIFICATION PROGRAMME

280. Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a) what percentage of the targeted goal of the Rural Electrification Programme had been achieved since inception, district by district;

(b) what impact the failure or success of the above programme had on poverty alleviation in the country; and

(c) whether the Government had reviewed the programme to ensure that the energy sector contributed effectively to economic development.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Sichilima): Madam Speaker, according to the recent statistical data, the electrification rate in the rural areas currently stands at about 4% countrywide. Although there were no specific goals of rural electrification set for each district, the House may wish to know that most of the district centres in the country are supplied with power either from the national grid or through the stand alone diesel generators. Even new districts created in the 1990s such as Shangombo and Chavuma are being supplied with diesel power. We are aware, however, that new districts such as Milenge still remain in the dark at the moment.

Madam, it is precisely due to the need to develop a systematic programme of electrification that my ministry in 2006, working with support from the Government of Japan through the Japan International Co-operation Agency (JICA), started preparing a Rural Electrification Master Plan. I am happy to inform the House that the Rural Electrification Master Plan was completed in December, 2007, and the report was submitted to the Government in January, 2008.

Madam Speaker, my ministry is making arrangements to have the master plan adopted by Cabinet so that it becomes the National Blue-Print for rural electrification for the period 2008 to 2030. The Master Plan has identified 1,217 Rural Growth Centres (RGCs) as the candidate sites to be electrified by 2030. The aim is to increase the rural electricity access rate from the current 4% to 51% by 2030. The total estimated budget to achieve the said target by 2030 is US$1.1 billion or K3,850 billion for the period up to 2030. This translates into an annual Budget of US$50 million or K175 billion for the period 2008 to 2030.

Madam Speaker, it is quite obvious that the major reason that the Government has been financing rural electrification is the positive socio-economic benefits that result from electrification. Electrification results in improved service delivery in education, health, water supply and sanitation and improved productivity in such economic sectors as tourism, agriculture, commerce, mining, fishing, cottage industries and many more.

The current lack of development in many of our rural areas today can be attributed to the lack of basic infrastructure like roads, clean water supply, telecommunications and power supply. The Rural Electrification Master Plan has set ambitious targets for increasing access and all available feasible technological options such as grid extensions, mini-hydro power stations, solar and biomass combustions will be promoted.

Madam Speaker, the Government is just about to launch the Rural Electrification Master Plan which contains the electrification targets already stated above. It is the Government’s intention to periodically review the implementation of the mater plan to assess whether it will be on course.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kasongo: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out whether the Government has any programme to electrify the rural areas in order to attract investment in places such as North-Western Province where people are still using diesel.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Madam Speaker, I think this question has been elaborately answered by the hon. Deputy Minister. The Rural Electrification Master Plan is a programme and initiative of the Government. Previously, projects dealing with rural electrification were done in a haphazard manner without a plan. Therefore, the Government decided to have an electrification plan. The fact that the Government sought support in terms of financing from its co-operating partners does not in any way dilute the fact that this is a Government initiative. It is the Government’s initiative, using this plan, to provide electricity in various forms, either through grid extension, development of mini or micro power stations or, indeed, solar home-based systems. The Government has identified 1,217 Rural Growth Centres to ensure that development is taken to all parts of the country, including Chavuma.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Madam Speaker, my constituency was one of the …

Mr Sikota: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sikota: Madam Speaker, I thank you and I would like to apologise to my colleague for interrupting his question.

Madam Speaker, I rise on a very serous point of order. I am sure you have noted that I do not rise on points of order that often. However, because this is compelling and grave, I felt that I had to.

 Madam Speaker, last Friday, a ministerial statement was given to this House by the hon. Minister of Health regarding the health of the Republican President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. During the time that this ministerial statement was given, the acting Leader of Government Business in the House, who is also the hon. Minister of Defence, was present. I do believe that it is the habit and tradition of this House that the Leader of Government Business in the House is aware of any and every ministerial statement to be presented in the House. Therefore, one would assume that the acting Leader of Government Business in the House would have been fully aware of the contents of the ministerial statement that the hon. Minister of Health was giving on that particular day.

Madam Speaker, be that as it may, it would appear that the acting Leader of Government Business in the House was not happy with the statement which was given in this House by the hon. Minister of Health. He chose to contradict or somehow limit the statement through the press. This departs from the tradition of this House that issues which are raised in the House should be responded to in the House by hon. Members who are unhappy with any aspect of a statement which was made in the House.

Madam Speaker, I would like to refer to The Post Newspaper of today (12th August 2008). On the front page, there is a report, which is, in fact, the lead article of the newspaper, which is headed “Chituwo’s Statement on Levy Alarming – Mpombo”

Madam Speaker, I believe that the role of ministerial statements is, firstly, to dispel misinformation in the country in general and provide information to ensure that there is no unnecessary alarm in the nation. Stating that the statement given by the hon. Minister of Health was alarming and misleading would suggest that the ministerial statement should not have been made in the first place.

Madam Speaker, before I lay the newspaper article on the Table, I would like to read it. It reads as follows:

“Acting Vice-President and Defence Minister, George Mpombo, yesterday said Health Minister, Dr Brian Chituwo’s statement to Parliament, last Friday, concerning President Levy Mwanawasa’s condition in Paris is slightly misleading and alarming.

And United Liberal Party president, Sakwiba Sikota, said Cabinet has to use a common sense approach to decide the next step to take on President Mwanawasa’s illness and succession process.

Meanwhile, MMD National Chairman, Michael Mabenga, said he saw sense in veteran politician Vernon Mwaanga’s statement over President Mwanawasa’s succession, but that the party would not act on probabilities.

Commenting on Mwaanga’s statement urging the nation to consider constitutional options over the succession of President Mwanawasa, considering that Dr Chituwo said his recovery from the stroke he suffered a month ago would take long, Mpombo said Mwaanga could not be blamed because he based his comments on Dr Chituwo’s statement which was alarming.

‘It’s slightly misleading because you see, he [Dr Chituwo] left Paris four weeks ago, but when I speak to people in Paris, those attending to the President, the people are giving me different views. So, as for me, I would rather take what the people on the ground are saying’ Mpombo said.

‘In my view as acting Vice-President, I do speak to them everyday. I will travel to Paris after Parliament but as for now, I would rather follow what the people on the ground are saying. The condition of the President is actually much better than was reported. It [Dr Chituwo’s statement] was alarming and too grim. So that’s my stand’.”

Madam Speaker, I will not read the rest of the article because although it relates to the same, it is not central to the point of order I am raising.

Madam Speaker, evidently, there is also the question of collective responsibility. I ask for a ruling on whether or not it is in order for a Member of the Front Bench to dispute a ministerial statement of a colleague made in the House and whether that would not be a breach of the principle of collective responsibly.

Madam Speaker, there is also the issue of whether or not this was the correct way for the acting Leader of Government Business in the House to go about this matter. Was he in order to go to the press and state that the statement was misleading rather than come back to issue a clarification or further statement in this House where the original statement was made?

Madam Speaker, this is compounded by the fact that my colleague, the hon. Member for Kabwata, on that particular day, in fact, asked whether the hon. Minister could assure the nation, through the House, that in soliciting unity among citizens during the illness of the President, they too, in Cabinet, would stop making contradictory statements that created an impression that there were divisions among them and tension in the country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota: Madam Speaker, quite clearly, what has happened is creating confusion among the citizens. Rather than having had a statement which has informed the nation and calmed nerves, we now have a situation where the nation is thoroughly confused and people are ‘alarmed’, to use the words of the hon. acting Vice-President.

Madam Speaker, is the Government in order to create a situation in the nation where there is now doubt with regard to a ministerial statement given to this House and not seek to formally come and correct the impression and make the situation in the country calm and also respect the principle of collective responsibility? I need your serious ruling. 
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sikota laid the paper on the Table.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! In his point of order, the hon. Member has raised a number of issues.

To start with, he referred to the tradition of the House that when a statement is given in the House, should it be contradicted or, indeed, continue to be discussed out there. He brought out the issue of collective responsibility on the part of the Executive and the issue of further clarification if need be. In the many words that the hon. Member used, he brought out those points.

Hon. Members, the tradition of the House is that when a Motion or topic or, indeed, any concern of the House is discussed here, hon. Members, as stated in the point of order, are encouraged to come back if there is need for any further clarification.

However, if hon. Members in the House were listening carefully to the article read by the hon. Member who raised the point of order, it would seem that the discussion was not only hinging on the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House, but the entire House, although that may be putting it too broadly. Even the hon. Member that raised the point of order has been quoted in the article. Therefore, basically, it becomes an issue of open discussion as a topical issue in the land.

On the issue of collective responsibility, yes, indeed, one would expect collective responsibility.

The only thing the Chair can say about the issues that have been raised is that it is the expectation of this House that a periodic update on the status of His Excellency the President be given. Therefore, the Executive should have taken the responsibility to come back and make a clarification in the House. Therefore, at this point, I would like to urge the Executive to come back and make a statement to the House to put the record straight.

Thank you.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Member who was speaking may continue.

Mr Msichili: Madam Speaker, Kabushi Parliamentary Constituency benefited from the Rural Electrification Programme just before the elections. Immediately after the election results were announced, this programme stalled. Therefore, I would like to find out whether this programme has been discontinued because the Government lost in this area and if not, when is the Government going to resume it?

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Can we listen.

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Kabushi for that question.

The electrification programmes undertaken by the Government in the country are not subject to the results of an election. I have mentioned repeatedly, in this House, that the Government has an obligation to all its citizens, in line with the Vision 2030, to provide, among other services, electricity. As we heard in the statement by the hon. Deputy Minister, the Government intends to increase the access rate in rural areas from 4 per cent to more than 50 per cent. Therefore, it is not correct to state that the electrification programme for Kabushi was suspended after the elections because the Government did not perform well in that particular constituency. If the hon. Member for Kabushi cared, I would like to invite him to my office or, indeed, the office of the Rural Electrification Authority so that he can be informed of the specific dates that programmes for rural electrification will be undertaken in his constituency.

 Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr V. Mwale (Chipangali): Madam Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that taking too long to electrify rural areas in Zambia will have a negative effect on our environment because people in rural areas continue cutting down trees for energy.

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for Chipangali for that question.

 I would like to appeal to the hon. Member for Chipangali to work with various private institutions, my ministry and the Ministry of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources to avert the unnecessary deforestation of our environment. The Government intends to electrify all the areas in the country. To this effect, a plan has been put in place. Regrettably, due to lack of resources, these rural areas cannot be electrified at one time. Therefore, while we take time to undertake the rural electrification projects, I would like to appeal to all hon. Members of this House to work with my Government and ensure that our population does not deplete our natural resource of timber.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

NEGA NEGA BRICK FACTORY HOUSING UNITS

281. Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry:

(a) how many housing units Nega Nega Brick Factory had at the time the factory was privatised;

(b) what the requirements for one to qualify to buy the housing units above were;

(c) whether being a sitting tenant was one of the requirements; and

(d) who currently owned the housing units at (a) above.

Mr Konga (on behalf of the Minister of Commerce Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati)): Madam Speaker, I would like to inform this House that the factory at Nega Nega was not privatised as it was compulsorily acquired in 1981, together with its 145 housing units. The acquisition turned the factory, together with its housing units, into State property and the Government as owner did not let these units to anyone.

The Government did not come up with any requirements for one to qualify to buy the housing units because the Government did not let the units to anyone at all.

Being a sitting tenant was not a requirement to qualify to buy the housing units because the Government did not come up with any such requirement for the houses in issue as I said earlier.

The Government in 1998, through the office of the Commissioner of Lands, sold all the said housing units to Brick and Tile Manufacturing Limited at the price of K56 million, therefore, making Brick and Tile Manufacturing Limited the owner of the housing units.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. Minister for that answer. However, could the hon. Minister, please, indicate to this House the circumstances in which compulsory acquisition was arrived at, considering that there were people that worked for Nega Nega Brick Factory that had lived in those houses for a period of not less than twenty years.

Secondly, at K56 million, if I heard him correctly, 145 units were sold in 1998 thereby, aggregating a cost of K3 million per house, if not less. Can the hon. Minister indicate whether or not he sees an anomaly in the pricing of the houses.

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, I thank you for the follow up question from the hon. Member for Mazabuka. There are different options that the Government considers when disposing of its assets. One such option was that of compulsory acquisition. This is the mode that the Government decided to use to dispose of these properties.

The second part of the follow up question is related to the value of the property which was sold at K56 million. This value was arrived at after a valuation exercise was undertaken by the relevant institutions mandated to value the property. Therefore, this is the value that was provided to the Government.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

DIALYSIS MACHINES

282. Mr Lubinda (Kabwata) asked the Minister of Health:

(a) how many dialysis machines were in a functional condition in Zambia as of 31st December, 2007;

(b) how many of the machines above were in Government health institutions and how many were in private hospitals; and

(c) how the number of the machines at (a) above compared with the total requirement for the country.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Dr Puma): Madam Speaker, there were four …

Mr Lubinda: Four!

Dr Puma: … functional dialysis machines as at 31st December, 2007, in Government health institutions.

As of 31st December, 2007, Government health institutions, as I said, had only four functional machines. However, data is not immediately available for any private institutions that have dialysis machines.

It is clear that the total number required for the country has to be increased considering that non-communicable diseases like hypertension and diabetes are on the increase.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Speaker, given the acknowledgement by the hon. Minister that diseases that require dialysis machines are on the upswing in the country, can he indicate to this House how many dialysis machines have been bought this year using the K19 billion that this House allocated in January for the procurement of medical equipment. Seeing that this is August, 2008, how many machines have been bought from the K19 billion?

Interruptions

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, we have not bought any dialysis machines this year. However, as a ministry, we are buying different equipment which is equally important. Currently, we are considering purchasing Magnetic Resonance Imaging (MRI) equipment which is as important as the dialysis machine. So, this equipment will be purchased as funds are made available.
I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Katema (Chingola): Madam Speaker, I would like to know whether the Government is aware that, at the moment, there are long queues of patients waiting to undergo dialysis. Some patients come from as far as Kaputa or Mwinilunga to queue up and some even die before the time for their analysis comes. What is the Government doing to alleviate the suffering of the people?

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, as I stated earlier, cases of non-communicable diseases are on the increase. The Government is doing everything possible to ensure that this problem is resolved. Currently, as Ministry of Health, we have a specialist specifically tackling non-communicable diseases and a budget line has actually been set aside for this department to look seriously into non-communicable diseases.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, I wonder if the hon. Minister can justify not having any idea how many dialysis machines might be in the private sector. After all, his ministry’s job is to look after the health sector and the provision of health care and not simply run Government hospitals and clinics. Whether or not there are dialysis machines in the private sector impinges on the need of the Government to provide this service. Can he, therefore, explain why he is so ignorant of whether or not there are dialysis machines in the private sector.

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, as the Ministry of Health, we have a statutory body that looks specifically at how the private sector is operating. The Medical Council of Zambia is the institution that is mandated to inspect private sector health institutions and ensure that they are operating within the guidelines. If we are given enough time, we will be able to get information from the Medical Council of Zambia so that the hon. Member is satisfied.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister where these four dialysis machines are. In which hospitals in particular are these machines and how much does it cost for one person to undergo dialysis?

Mr Lubinda: Very good!

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, the dialysis machines are at the University Teaching Hospital (UTH). In terms of the cost, that is a new question. The hon. Member can ask it formally and we shall give an appropriate response.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.{mospagebreak}

MINERAL EXPLORATIONS IN KAOMA

283. Ms Limata (Luampa) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a) what minerals had been discovered through mineral explorations in Kaoma District, constituency by constituency; and

(b) what social benefits, if any, were anticipated from the mineral discoveries for the people of Kaoma.
The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. Mwale): Madam Speaker, exploration works carried out in Kaoma District revealed the presence of the following minerals:

(i) Copper, gold and clays in Mangango Constituency;

(ii) Copper and gold in Kaoma Central Constituency; and

(iii) Coal in Luampa Constituency.

The House may, however, wish to know that geological works carried out in the Luampa area have proved that there is potential for oil and gas and the area has now been demarcated into a block for further petroleum exploration works.

The companies carrying out exploration works in Kaoma District are:

(i) Lufilian Mining Limited  which was granted a prospecting licence on 28th December, 2005;

(ii) VCM Mining Limited which was granted a large-scale prospecting licence 288 on 30th May 2006; and

(iii) Pine Works Limited which was granted a large-scale prospecting licence 307 on 1st December, 2006.

These prospecting licence holders are at different stages of prospecting. So far, none of the companies has reported finding a commercial deposit for a large-scale operation.

Madam Speaker, the House may wish to know that the social benefits anticipated for the people of Kaoma will only come if the discoveries are commercially and economically viable and when companies acquire mining licences to develop and exploit the minerals. Social benefits are usually in form of employment, business opportunities, social services and infrastructure development. Benefits also accrue to the local communities through increased revenue to the Government and local authority.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Madam Speaker, whilst it is appreciated that social benefits may not come now, it is certain that negative environmental impacts, as a result of these operations, are going to be felt. What has the ministry done to ensure that these do not have a negative effect after the explorers have gone so that the people of Luampa are not inconvenienced?

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa): Madam Speaker, we do make sure that when exploration activities cease, the operator restores the environment, as much as possible, to its original position. What we want to see in Kaoma is the conclusion of exploration works so that we can determine the potential of the area and bring the benefits of mining to Kaoma and other areas. Therefore, we are following these activities keenly to ensure that they conclude their investigations and move into the development stage of the mines.

I thank you, Madam.

REPAIR OF BRIDGE RAILS AT KAMFINSA RIVER BRIDGE

284. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) how much was required to repair the bridge rails at the Kamfinsa River Bridge in Roan Parliamentary Constituency where three members from one family had died due to floods in 2006;

(b) who would pay for the cost of repairs; and

(c) why it had taken over one year to repair the bridge despite having lost precious lives.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Madam Speaker, the Copperbelt regional engineer inspected the bridge and estimated that it would cost approximately K54 million to replace the missing rails on the bridge in order to make it safe for users.

The Luanshya Copper Mines Plc has pledged US$10,000 for the cost of the repairs to the bridge rails. The repair works were advertised in the local print media and tenders closed on Friday 28th April, 2008. The provincial administration tender committee adjudicated over the tender and Pliable Engineering was awarded the contract at a contract sum of K31,784,928 for a period of three weeks. The works on the bridge commenced on 1st August, 2008.

It was not possible to repair the bridge due to the inadequate funding to the road sector. That is why funding for the repairs had to be outsourced, hence, the pledge from Luanshya Copper Mines Plc.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I would like to find out from the ministry why it has taken them one year to repair the bridge after losing three lives at that bridge. Is it the policy of this Government to only act when there is an accident or calamity?

Madam Deputy Speaker: That is part (c) of the question.

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, that is why I said that the funds were not enough and that is why we sourced funds from Luanshya Copper Mines Plc and the bridge is being done. The hon. Member should know that we are doing the bridge.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

PREGNANT LIQUID SOLUTION

285. Mr Chanda (Kankoyo) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) what the immediate effects of drinking water that was contaminated with Pregnant Liquid Solution (PLS) used in in situ leaching or solution mining were;

(b) what the long term effects at (a) above were; and

(c) how long it took for the effects at (a) above to manifest.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Chilembo): Madam Speaker, the Pregnant Liquid Solution (PLS) is an essentially soluble copper sulphate plus very dilute sulphuric acid. Pregnant Liquid Solution has the potential of causing stomach upsets if it is taken in high quantities. The stomach upset manifests in diarrhoea with or without abdominal pain.

Madam Speaker, studies published in science journals indicate no long-term effects on human health, except for the immediate effects which have been elaborated above.

Lastly, it has been generally shown that PLS exhibits immediate harmful effects by manifesting in diarrhoea with or without abdominal pain.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, clearly the people of Mufulira and Kankoyo in particular, were exposed to this contamination and I wonder what this Government is doing to prevent such things from occurring in future.

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Mr Kaingu): Madam Speaker, the role of my ministry, through the Environmental Council of Zambia (ECZ), is to see to it that the environment is sustainable. The question here is clearly showing that our people, the ECZ, are aware that if somebody consumes PLS, they will develop diarrhoea and, as such, I do not see the relationship between his second question and the question we have just answered.

I thank you, Madam.

CBPP OUTBREAK IN KAZUNGULA DISTRICT IN 2006 AND 2007

286. Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) how many cattle were slaughtered in Kazungula District in 2006 and 2007 due to the outbreak of the CBPP disease; and

(b) when the ban on livestock movement in Kazungula District would be lifted.

The Deputy Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Mulonga): Madam Speaker, the number of cattle slaughtered in Kazungula District due to the outbreak of contagious bovine pleuro pneumonia (CBPP) was 3178 in 2006 and 1370 in 2007.

Madam Speaker, the ban on livestock movement in Kazungula District will be lifted when CBPP is under control.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Musokotwane: Madam Speaker, when will CBPP be controlled when they have not put in place any measures to control it in my constituency? While they are treating animals in Mwandi in Sesheke District, which is our neighbour, nothing is being done in Katombola. How do they intend to control the disease?

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, the control of CBPP started from Kazungula District. The problem has been the lack of adequate compliance by farmers. Animals are being cross-bred from one area to the other. In addition, some livestock farmers in Kazungula District are not willing to have their animals slaughtered.

Madam Speaker, CBPP mainly affects the lungs. To control the disease, we decided to work with some meat processors. When it is found that a kraal has a problem, the farmer is supposed to take his animals to the processor, who, in turn, pays the farmer. However, some farmers are reluctant to do this. So, that is the problem we have. I would, therefore, urge the hon. Member of Parliament for Kazungula to help us persuade the farmers to follow this procedure so that we can eradicate the disease as soon as possible.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Madam Speaker, what arrangements has the Government made to ensure that the pricing mechanism for the animals being taken to the abattoir is favourable to the farmer?

UPND Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, we agreed on a price with the processors in 2006 and 2007. They were paying farmers K7,500 per Kg for a slaughtered animal. As it is now, the processors are self-regulating. Since the economy is improving, it is up to them to negotiate a price with the farmers. However, as at now, I can assure the hon. Member of Parliament that the incidence of the disease in that area has reduced tremendously.

Madam Speaker, we have to differentiate between animals which are being slaughtered because of disease and those which are being slaughtered for economic benefit. Maybe, the K12,000 he is talking about is for the animals being slaughtered for economic benefit. The K7,000 was merely to help farmers whose animals were diseased.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Madam Speaker, from the research conducted in areas where there are cattle farmers, it is very clear that the ministry is understaffed. As a result, they are failing to handle this situation. The problem does not arise from the farmers, but from the ministry. Therefore, when is the Government going to employ more people to deploy in areas like Kazungula?

The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Ms Sayifwanda): Madam Speaker, my ministry is looking into employing many extension officers not only in livestock, but also in other fields like crops. This year, I think I stood on this Floor and informed this House that the ministry was recruiting some extension officers. Right now, some extension officers are already in the provinces and districts and I know some officers have been sent to Kazungula. With the availability of resources, we can improve. Next time we have resources, we are going to increase our recruitment.

Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

PAN AFRICAN INSTITUTE FOR DEVELOPMENT IN THE EASTERN AND SOUTHERN AFRICA (PAID-ESA) REGION

287. Mr Kakusa (Kabwe Central) asked the Vice-President what plans the Government had for the Pan African Institute for Development in the Eastern and Southern Africa region (PAID-ESA) in Kabwe.

The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Malwa): Madam Speaker, I wish to inform this august House that the Government has on-going plans of consulting the relevant stakeholders before a final decision can be taken on the future of PAID-ESA in Kabwe of Central Province.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

NEW PROPRIETORS OF CHISHINGA CATTLE RANCH IN LUAPULA

288. Dr Chishya (Pambashe) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives who the new proprietors of the Chishinga Cattle Ranch in Luapula Province were.

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, though Chishinga Cattle Ranch in Kawambwa was offered for sale by the Zambia Privatisation Agency (ZPA), it was not bought by anyone. It was, therefore, reverted to the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives for custody purposes.

Dr Chishya: Madam Speaker, if what the hon. Minister has said is something to go by, what has happened to the former workers of this cattle ranch who were under  the Industrial Development Corporation (INDECO) and what has happened to the infrastructure which is now in tatters.
Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, the workers who were due for retirement were retired and those who were useful to the ministry were redeployed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Madam Speaker, could I know if it is still the intention of the ministry to sell the ranch and if the price will be better than that of the Zambia Privatisation Agency (ZPA).

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, as I said, we are just taking care of the premises, but the ranch is still under ZPA and anyone willing to buy it can go to ZPA to get the right information and negotiate.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

REHABILITATION AND CONSTRUCTION OF ROADS IN LUANSHYA CONSTITUENCY

289. Ms Phiri (Luanshya) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when Copper Road in Luanshya Parliamentary Constituency would be rehabilitated; and

(b) when construction of the Industrial Road in Luanshya Parliamentary Constituency would be completed.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Madam Speaker, the Copper Road in Luanshya Parliamentary Constituency is being considered for rehabilitation under the Accelerated Urban Roads Programme for 2008. The Luanshya District Council was appointed as local road authority and has been tasked with the responsibility of preparing the bidding documents for advertising the works in the local print media. The commencement of the rehabilitation works will depend on how soon the local road authority will be able to procure the works. The Road Development Agency regional office will work hand in hand with the local road authority to ensure that works are procured without unnecessary delays.

Madam, the works on the Industrial Road in Luanshya Constituency have been substantially completed though 700 metres of the road still needs to be completed. The remaining works will be completed through a variation order comprising the rehabilitation of the 700 metres under the existing contract. The extra amount for the variation order will be drawn from the 2008 Budget under the Accelerated Urban Roads Programme for 2008.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF EMBANKMENT AT KASABA LAGOON

290. Mr Mwansa asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the embankment at Kasaba Lagoon on the Samfya/Lubwe/Kasaba/Luwingu Road would be constructed to make the road operational.

Mr Ndalamei: Madam Speaker, the Road Development Agency advertised for the periodic maintenance of the road from Samfya through Lubwe to Kasaba late last year. Works were scheduled to commence between May and June this year. However, the section requiring construction of an embankment at Kasaba has not been covered in this year’s Annual Work Plan due to funding constraints. The construction of this embankment will be considered in 2009 if submitted as a priority for Luapula Province by the local road authority.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

MONTHLY EXPENDITURE ON VULNERABLE GROUPS

291. Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services:

(a) what the monthly funding for vulnerable groups in each district was; and

(b) how much money the ministry had spent on vulnerable people in Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency from 2002 to-date.

The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Akakandelwa): Madam Speaker, as you may be aware, the only programme in the ministry which remits monthly funds to each district for vulnerable groups is the Public Welfare Assistance Scheme (PWAS), which is operational countrywide.  The Social Cash Transfer Scheme also sends monthly funds, but is currently on a pilot basis in five districts which are Kalomo, Kazungula, Monze, Chipata and Katete.

PWAS disbursed a total of K2,215,646,700.00 from January, 2008 to May, 2008, broken down into monthly funding as shown in the appendix below, which I will lay on the Table. By the time of compilation of this response, the Social Cash Transfer Scheme had only sent funding amounting to K2,595,180,933.00 to the five districts as indicated in appendix 1. Other programmes in the ministry may send their assistance either in cash or in kind according to the nature of the programme and the manner in which it operates. For example, the Street Children Programme has disbursed about K3.5 billion so far, with monthly disbursements of K757,000,000.00 going to children’s homes and street children district committees. A major chunk of about K1 billion has gone towards the conversion of the Chikumbi Resource Development Centre into a street children centre. Further, the Street Children Programme has reserved K1.54 billion to purchase thirty-two station wagons and ten vans to assist in the operations of the programme. Yet other programmes provide assistance in kind like the Food Security Pack Programme, and the assistance may not be provided monthly but once a year.

Madam, K424.06 million was spent on vulnerable people in Mfuwe Constituency from 2002 to-date, broken down as follows:

Programme 2002 2003 2004 2005 2006 2007 2008

 K’M K’M K’M K’M K’M K’M K’M

PWAS 4.76 20.4 16.5 11.5 21.03 15.5 16.02

Food Security 108.528 99.56 33.591 20.7 17.1 5.427 -
Pack

Micro Bankers - - 13.396 5.505 2.962 - 3.5
Trust

Women - - 4 4 - - -
development
groups/clubs

Total 113.288 119.96 67.487 41.705 41.092 20.927 19.52

The breakdown, district by district, is too voluminous and I prefer to lay this information on the Table.

Mr Akakandelwa laid the paper on the Table.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Malama: Madam Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister the criteria the ministry follows to identify vulnerable groups in these districts.

The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Ms Namugala): Madam Speaker, the ministry uses poverty levels, but, in some cases, we use population. For instance, Western Province is recorded as having the highest poverty levels at 84 per cent, Luapula Province at 79 per cent while Northern Province is at 78 per cent.

I thank you, Madam.{mospagebreak}

ROAD DEVELOPMENT AGENCY INSPECTIONS

292. Major Chibamba (Shiwang’andu) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) when the Road Development Agency would undertake routine road and bridge inspections and repairs; and

(b) how often road bridges on the Great North Road were inspected by the RDA for serviceability.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Madam Speaker, the core objective of the Road Development Agency (RDA) is to manage and coordinate the core road network in the country. In doing so, it carries out routine road and bridge inspections on a regular basis to collect information on the state of the roads and bridges. This is done through its regional offices and in coordination with the local road authorities. Budgetary constraints, however, imply that the roads to be worked on in one particular year have to be prioritised. As such, not all roads and bridges can be repaired in one year. The prioritised roads and bridges are compiled and included in the Road Development Agency annual work plan for implementation.

Madam Speaker, consecutive efforts have been made to collect data on the conditions of the roads. These include exercises that were carried out by consultants in 2005 through to 2006. Plans are underway to launch a comprehensive bridge survey for all structures in the country using funds from the World Bank. This will be used to populate and update the bridge management system that is used by the Road Development Agency to establish the maintenance needs. The Great North Road is one of the main roads that have been and will continue to be surveyed.

I thank you, Madam.

Major Chibamba: Madam Speaker, my question was very specific, but it appears that the hon. Minister has omitted one part of it. Is the hon. Minister aware that the state of Nakonde Bridge, on this particular road, for instance, is precarious and poses great danger to road users?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Simbao): Madam Speaker …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.

[MADAM DEPUTY SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, before business was suspended, I was about to say that we have a contractor on the road between Isoka and Nakonde, China Geo, who are rehabilitating the entire stretch of that road.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Mooya (Moomba): Madam Speaker, about four years ago, each hon. Member of Parliament was requested to submit the bridge requirements for his/her constituency. Could the hon. Minister update us on this because as far as I remember, that money was to be sourced from the World Bank.

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, it is true that hon. Members of Parliament were requested to submit about five bridges in their constituencies so that money, which, then was at about US$ 50 million, given by the World Bank could be utilised on those crossings. It so happened that this money was halved and we only managed to get US$ 25 million. Therefore, the number of provinces was also halved.

The provinces that benefited from this money were Eastern, Northern, Copperbelt and North-Western. The bridges that were considered were those that were15 metres and below.

The World Bank is willing to provide the other US$ 25 million for the rest of the provinces after this money has been used. That is why other provinces have not benefited.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Madam Speaker, part of the question that I wanted to ask has been answered. There have been a lot of Government assurances regarding the rehabilitation of bridges and roads. Today is the 12th August, 2008, but we are not seeing anything on the ground. What is happening?

Mr Simbao: Madam Speaker, I really do not know the particular projects the hon. Member is referring to. There are many projects that are on-going right now. I can mention almost 90 per cent of the projects in the annual works plan that are being worked on right now.
 
Mr C. Mulenga: Mbesuma!

Mr Simbao: He has mentioned the Mbesuma Bridge and he needs to know that we are supposed to carry out feasibility studies on that bridge. However, that has changed a bit. We want to combine detailed engineering drawings with the feasibility study so that we can see whether it is possible to start the physical works on that bridge this year. What is in the annual works plan is just the feasibility study which might not be as visible as the hon. Member would like.

I thank you, Madam.

SAWMILLS IN URBAN AREAS

293. Mr Mwapela (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) how many sawmills were located in urban areas;

(b) how many sawmills located in urban areas paid royalties to the Government;

(c) how many hardwood sawmill companies in urban areas operated without forest concession licences; and

(d) how much revenue the Government lost annually through the companies at (c) above which operated without concessions.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Tembo): Madam Speaker, as at February, 2008, a total of twenty-five sawmills were located in the urban areas of our country broken down as follows:

Province              Number of Sawmills

Lusaka                        14

Copperbelt                  03

Southern                     05

Western                     02

North Western            01

Total                            25

All the twenty-five sawmills located in the urban areas pay royalties to the Government.

Madam Speaker, the ministry is only responsible for sawmill companies with concessions. The sawmill companies which do not operate on concessions are registered with the Ministry of Local Government and Housing under councils and the Ministry of Commerce, Trade and Industry. My ministry only deals with them when they apply for concessions.

Lastly, as I have already stated, there are no companies that operate without a forest concession licence. Therefore, the Government does not lose any revenue in this regard.

Thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Madam Speaker, what has happened to the sawmill that was at Kapeshi and the other one in Samfya because there is a lot of timber at Kapeshi Forest Plantation and in Samfya as well? What has gone wrong?

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I must confess that I do not have the answer to those two questions. I will carry out an investigation and supply the answer to the hon. Member.

Thank you, Madam.

Mr Chisala (Chilubi): Madam Speaker, the answer given by the hon. Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources confirms the concentration of sawmills in urban areas. May I learn from the hon. Minister why sawmills cannot be taken to rural areas where there are quite a good number of forest areas.

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, these are private owned sawmills and I cannot tell them to go and operate where they do not want. However, I would like to encourage the hon. Member to go into this business. It is lucrative.

Thank you very much, Madam.

Laughter

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, sawmills, wherever they are located, generate a lot of waste. What is his ministry doing, through the Environmental Council of Zambia, to ensure that this waste is disposed of in a manner that is acceptable?

Mr Kaingu: Madam Speaker, I have already stated here that our role, as a ministry, is to monitor and make sure that the environment is sustainable. The disposal of waste falls under the Ministry of Local Government and Housing.

Thank you, Madam.

ZAMBIA NEWS AND INFORMATION SERVICES DISTRICT OFFICE IN MWENSE

294. Mr Chongo asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services:
(a) how many officers were employed by the Zambia News and Information Services(ZANIS) district office at Mwense and in what categories they were;

(b) what mode of transport the officers at (a) above used to disseminate and gather news in outlying areas of the district; and

(c) whether the district office was adequately equipped to carry out its functions and, if not, what measures the ministry had taken to ensure that the office operated to the expectations of the local community.

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Mr D. Phiri): Madam Speaker, the personnel establishment at Mwense District Office is as follows:

(i) District Information Officer  1 position

(ii) Campaign Van Operator   1 position

(iii) Driver     1 position

(iv) Office Orderly    1 position

Currently, there is only one position filled which is the district information officer and the other three positions are vacant. The process of recruitment has commenced as Treasury authority has now been granted.

Madam, the officer uses a video van stationed at Mansa office for video shows and a motor bike for day to day operations.

The district office is equipped with one computer and printer, a phone line and public address system. Equipment for wide area network has been purchased and is awaiting installation. In addition, the district will be linked to Internet connectivity for transmission of texts and films.

Madam Speaker, I can hasten to say that installation of wide user network in some districts has already commenced and tests are being carried out.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Chongo: Madam Speaker, with this gloomy picture about the establishment, are there any plans by the ministry to employ personnel from the district itself because we have a lot of qualified people who can be employed in this office? Are there plans to employ from the local community?

Mr D. Phiri: Madam Speaker, I have just said that the process of recruitment is in progress at the moment. If people from that district apply for the positions and meet the requirements, certainly the ministry shall consider them.

Thank you, Madam.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Madam Speaker, I want to find out from the Government whether they have any intentions of increasing the monthly funding for officers to sustain their operations.

Mr D. Phiri: Madam Speaker, at the moment, going by our budgetary provision, the funds are quite sufficient.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chisala: Madam Speaker, local transport in the ministry is an eye sore. May I learn from the hon. Minister responsible whether the Government has plans to procure new vehicles for the ministry.

Mr D. Phiri: Madam Speaker, procurement of vehicles as well as other equipment is an on-going exercise and we actually procured a good number of vehicles last year. We intend to do the same this year.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, is the ministry considering procuring some boats so that in districts such as Samfya and elsewhere where there are large expanses of water, his officers can reach the remote areas of the country to report on what is happening there?

Mr D. Phiri:  Madam Speaker, very recently, I was in Mongu to launch a boat which is a clear indication that we have placed importance on procuring boats, especially in areas that require water transport to be reached.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

PRODUCTION OF FERTILISER BY THE NITROGEN CHEMICALS OF ZAMBIA

295. Mr C. Mulenga asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) how many metric tonnes of D-Compound fertiliser were produced by the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia from 2004 to 2007; and

(b) how many metric tonnes of the fertiliser at (a) above were exported and to which countries.

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, from the time of resuscitation, the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) has been producing mainly D-Compound fertiliser under contract for the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP). The following are the total quantities of D-Compound fertiliser that were produced between 2004 and 2007:

Year   Amount
   (Metric Tonnes)

2004/05  19,699
2005/06  35,139
2006/07  36,539
2007/08  31,800

Total   123,177

Madam Speaker, the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia has not exported any D-Compound fertiliser between 2004 and 2007, mainly due to reduced production levels arising from inadequate resources. All the D-Compound fertiliser produced by NCZ was consumed domestically either under the Fertiliser Support Programme or sold on the open market.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr C. Mulenga: Madam Speaker, Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia is a very big plant and, in fact, very important to our nation. May I find out from the ministry when the Government will recapitalise it to enable it produce enough fertiliser for the nation to mitigate the escalating prices of fertiliser being experienced currently.
Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, the Government is doing everything possible to do this and serious discussions are going on. Thus, a committee of ministers was constituted to look at the plight of this company. I cannot pre-empt this as we shall present a ministerial statement soon and will also outline what progress we have made.

Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that the so-called manufacturing activities at Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia consist of taking imported ingredients; nitrogen, phosphate and potash salts and mixing them and granulating them in the shed that is right at the end of the factory? It is not, in fact, manufacturing ammonia or ammonium nitrate. As a result, the value added by Nitrogen Chemicals, that is to say the difference between the value of the mixed fertiliser and the ingredients, is actually very small. Can he or she confirm that?

Mr Mulonga: Madam Speaker, as that information is coming from the former Minister of Agriculture, Food and Fisheries, I can neither confirm nor deny it.

I thank you, Madam.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Madam Speaker, besides Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia in Kafue, what other factories produce fertiliser and what is their production capacity for both fertiliser and urea.

Mrs Sayifwanda: Madam Speaker, although this could be a new question, the Government’s policy is to partner with the private sector to make sure that we add value to our nation. My ministry is interested in seeing the private sector establish plants which can produce fertiliser and other chemicals in this nation. I am very ready to see some companies come to help in this venture. As for now, there is no other company producing fertiliser. The companies dealing in fertiliser currently only buy and sell it.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

__________

BILLS

FIRST READING

THE PETROLEUM (EXPLORATION AND PRODUCTION) BILL, 2008

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa) (on behalf of the Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga)): Madam Speaker, I beg to introduce a Bill entitled the Petroleum Exploration and Production Bill, 2008. The objects of the Bill are to:

(a) revise the law relating to the exploration for, and the development and production of petroleum in Zambia;

(b) provide for title to and control of petroleum in Zambia

(c) provide for the continuation of the Petroleum Committee and revise its functions;

(d) provide for the constitution of the Petroleum Technical Committee and define its functions;

(e) establish the Petroleum Environmental Protection Fund;

(f) establish the Petroleum Trust Fund;

(g) provide for the registration of the National Petroleum Company;

(h)  repeal and replace the Petroleum (Exploration and Development) Act, 1985; and

(i) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Economic …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

 … Affairs and Labour. 

The Chair is upstanding. It is not in order for hon. Members to continue talking.

 The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday 27th August, 2008. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

THE ACCOUNTANTS BILL, 2008

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda, SC) (on behalf of the Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande)): Madam Speaker, I beg to present a Bill entitled The Accountants Bill, 2008. The object of this Bill is to:

(a) regulate the accountancy profession;

(b) continue the existence of the Zambia Institute of Chartered Accountants and redefine its functions and powers;

(c) provide for the regulation of the education and training of accountants;

(d) provide for the setting of ethical, auditing and accounting standards;

(e) provide for the making and investigation of disclosures made in the public interest;

(f) define professional misconduct and provide for disciplinary procedures for the accountancy profession;

(g) repeal and replace the Accountants Act, 1982; and

(h) provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Public Accounts Committee. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 27th August, 2008. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.
Thank you.

THE SMALL CLAIMS COURT (Amendment) BILL, 2008

Mr Kunda: Madam Speaker, I stand to present a Bill entitled the Small Claims Court (Amendment) Bill, 2008. The object of this Bill is to revise the law relating to Small Claims Courts and provide for the operationalisation of Small Claims Courts by the Chief Justice in line with international standards and provide for matters connected with or incidental to the foregoing.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The Bill stands referred to the Committee on Delegated Legislation. The Committee is required to submit its report on the Bill to the House by Wednesday, 27th August, 2008. Hon. Members who wish to make submissions or amendments to the Bill are free to do so within the programme of work of the Committee.

Thank you.

_____{mospagebreak}

MOTION

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON LEGAL AFFAIRS, GOVERNANCE, HUMAN RIGHTS AND GENDER MATTERS

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that this House do adopt the first Report of the Committee on Legal Affairs, Governance, Human Rights and Gender Matters for the Second Session of the Tenth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 6th August, 2008.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?

Ms Phiri (Luanshya): Madam Speaker, I beg to second the Motion.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, in accordance with their terms of reference as set out in the Standing Orders, the duties of your Committee include, among other things, overseeing the activities of the Ministry of Justice, Gender in Development Division (GIDD) and other Government departments or agencies directly related to the operations of your Committee.

Madam, based on the above terms of reference, your Committee considered the following issues:

(a) women, land acquisition and customary law: a legal and gender concern; and

(b) the criminal justice system and congestion in Zambia’s prisons.

Madam Speaker, your Committee also considered an action-taken report on the observations and recommendations of their previous reports. Further, arising from the deliberations, your Committee undertook tours to various institutions around the country.

Your Committee’s Report is, therefore, in three parts. The first part relates to issues on women, land acquisition and customary law, and the criminal justice system and congestion in Zambia’s prisons. Part two consists of a tour report while part three deals with outstanding issues contained in your Committee’s previous reports.

Madam, I assume that hon. Members have had an opportunity to read the Report. I will, therefore, only highlight a few pertinent issues.

Madam Speaker, your Committee recognise that land is one of the critical resources in the development of the country and should be accessed by most, if not all citizens regardless of their gender. Further, your Committee recognise the challenges faced by women in Zambia in trying to acquire land. One issue of great concern is Zambia’s dual legal system, which recognises both statutory and customary law. Thus, while statutory law recognises and protects women’s property rights, customary law does not. The majority of women, especially those in rural areas, are made to relocate and thereby give up their right to land on termination of marriage. This clearly disadvantages women as they have to start all over again upon relocation. It is, therefore, important for the Government to come up with a land policy that will not only recognise, but also protect the rights of women with regard to customary land.

Madam Speaker, the second issue I wish to comment on is the criminal justice system and congestion in Zambia’s prison. Your Committee sadly noted that congestion in prisons and other detention facilities is one of the more serious problems currently confronting the criminal justice system in the country. Your Committee are of the view that there is an urgent need to decongest detention facilities. Prisoners are human beings and, as such, entitled to have their rights recognised and respected. It is unacceptable, by any standards, for prisoners to live in filthy and unhygienic conditions. Furthermore, your Committee found that juveniles and adults were kept in the same detention facilities.

Madam, your Committee urge the Government to urgently come with a lasting solution to congestion in prisons. The Government must build more prisons and or extend the existing ones. Otherwise, Zambia will continue having a poor human rights record at the international forum.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, allow me to thank various chief executives and permanent secretaries for their submissions. I also commend the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for the advice rendered during your Committee’s deliberations.

Finally, your Committee wish to put on record their indebtedness to you, Madam Speaker, for the guidance given to them during their deliberations.

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?

Ms Phiri: Now, Madam Speaker.

Madam, in seconding the Motion, I wish to thank the Chairperson for the able manner in which he has moved the Motion. The Chairperson has already touched most of the issues that caught your Committee’s attention during their deliberations. I will, therefore, only touch on one or two issues as a matter of emphasis and these relate to the conditions in prisons.

Madam Speaker, all detention facilities visited by your Committee were congested. This situation resulted in a shortage of various amenities. Bed space and mattresses were among the inadequate facilities in all the prisons. In addition, the prison buildings were not only old and dilapidated, but also fitted with obsolete security gadgets. Further, there was a general lack of accommodation for prison officials.

Madam, to say the least, the conditions and state of prisons in Zambia are very bad. The Government must appreciate the fact that prisoners are also human beings and, as such, they deserve to have their rights protected and respected. It is important that the Government attends to these problems in the prisons urgently.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Madam Speaker, very good!

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Madam, once again I wish to thank you for giving me an opportunity to debate the Report submitted to this august House and, indeed, to the entire nation.

Madam Speaker, we all sit in here and walk out there as potential prisoners because by conventional standards, man is born a prisoner. In the ninth session of this very National Assembly, I visited a colleague at Kamwala Prison. He was in a state of squalor. It is a pity he is not here because I was going to name him.

Laughter

Hon. Opposition Members: Miyanda!

Mr Muyanda: Yes, Miyanda. I tell you the truth, it is nice…

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Debate and do not name individuals here.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, …

Interruptions

Mr Muyanda: No, I am not qualifying …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Bring out your debate clearly.

Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, I am much obliged.

Madam, when I went to Kamwala Remand Prison, I found my colleague in a mentally dilapidated state. He was totally dehumanised. He had lost self-confidence. The flair of a flamboyant politician was no longer there. He had totally changed because of prison.

When a man or woman is declared a prisoner, he/she should not be condemned to death. Today and ever since independence, if you are sentenced to six months in prison and beyond, you are guaranteed of coming out as a dying person. You are unlikely to live again because there are various diseases that are now endemic in Zambian prisons. From the time of independence, I have seen no expansion of prison buildings in relation to the population growth.

Madam, from 1991, the number of prisoners swelled. What about extending the prison facilities based on our budget line? The prisoners need to be reformed so that they can come back as useful citizens. When a person is sent to prison, he is rejected. He is a social reject. You can only come back and be a responsible and useful citizen of the Republic of Zambia after undergoing mental restoration of self-dignity.

If you go to Chimbokaila or Livingstone Prison, you will find that the cells do not have running water. A man who by our laws has not yet been proven guilty is treated like a guilty person. Why should we do that? We are not only being inhuman to the prisoners, but to ourselves as well.

Madam Speaker, my passionate appeal to the Ministry of Home Affairs is that in next year’s Budget, a realistic allocation must be made for the expansion of prisons. Mind you, from 1991 to 1996, this Government introduced an institutionalised culture of stealing.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, as a result, a number of juveniles and grown ups were caught up in stealing in order to finance themselves. Others became professional thieves in order to plunder this country.

Laughter
Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Let us use the right words in the House. The words ‘thieves’ and ‘stealing’ are generally unparliamentary. Can you, please, find the right words and withdraw those.

Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the words ‘plunderers’ and ‘thieves’ and substitute them with the phrase, ‘professional defrauders of state wealth’.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, defrauders of national wealth should not be given a chance to run this country again. Never!

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Madam, when we send them to prison, let us send them to prisons from which they will come back and remember that stealing from the nation is a bad culture.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!  No stealing.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, they should not defraud and pilfer. They should not be sticky-fingered.

Laughter

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! That is not acceptable either.

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Madam Speaker, I am much obliged. Defrauding a nation is ruining it. When we send these men and women to prison, they should come back fully reformed and responsible citizens. Let us kill the culture of defrauding a nation. Robbing yourself is not a good culture. Forming a political party specifically to defraud the state and the poor people is not correct. As a part of the Government and a Parliamentarian, I will be failing in my responsibility of oversight if I do not address this issue. The prisons ought to be conducive for a person in order to destroy the culture of ‘I just picked it,’ and yet the person has defrauded state funds.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to make a short contribution on the subject of leading by example, which is, of course, a very important and often neglected aspect of governance, which is the responsibility of this Committee.

Madam Speaker, I draw the House’s attention to The Times of Zambia Newspaper of this morning (12th August, 2008), and particularly to the story at the bottom right-hand corner of the front page, whose headline is: “Masebo Censures ‘salary happy’ Water Company”.

Madam Speaker, as one might expect, the text is basically about the hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing advising management of water utility companies not to increase salaries at the expense of service provision and basically saying that services and performance must improve before people increase their remuneration.

Madam Speaker, it is ironic that this story appears in the newspaper on the same day that the Government is bringing to this House a Bill …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

There is a specific report that we are debating at the moment. The hon. Member will not sneak his ideas into the report. Can you debate the Report.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, we cannot be part of the process that is about to take place.

I thank you, Madam.

Interruptions

Dr Scott left the Assembly Chamber.

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the mover and seconder of this Motion.

Madam Speaker, issues of land must be taken seriously. In Zambia, today, we have a situation where large tracts of land are owned by foreigners who are reselling it to the people of Zambia at a very high cost.

Madam Speaker, this is unacceptable and the Government of the day …

Interruptions

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The Chair would like to hear what is being said on the Floor. Therefore, can hon. Members lower their voices in their quest to consult.

Mr Kambwili: … must provide checks where this is happening.

Madam Speaker, I wish to refer to a specific tract of land owned by a foreigner by the name of Galaun. This individual owns a very large tract of land and, at the moment, instead of this land being given to the indigenous Zambians, it is being sold to the rich at a very high cost using a company called Meanwood.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

A person addressed like that is unable to come and defend himself. If you talk about the company, it is alright because it has no face. However, to discuss individuals in that manner is difficult. You may continue.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Madam Speaker, Meanwood bought land from the State at a very cheap price. However, today, it is reselling the land for K25 million, K39 million or K 40 million. This is land that cannot be bought by the poor. Our civil servants and police officers who want to build houses cannot do so because land is in the hands of foreigners who have started reselling it at exorbitant prices.

Madam Speaker, we need to create an environment where the indigenous people can access land easily through the district councils and chiefs. Lusaka, in particular, has no land. However, you will find that an individual owns over 1000 hectares of land which is not even in use. When you visit some of these large farms, you will find that there is no production taking place. The land has just been fenced off and no one understands how they are going to use it.

Madam Speaker, the Government should visit these areas and ascertain why people are keeping large tracts of land without using it when most Zambians want to build houses in Lusaka, Copperbelt and other provinces.

Madam Speaker, the issue of the poor conditions in prisons cannot be over-emphasised. When you visit prisons, you cannot help but feel sorry for the prisoners. Those people may be hard-core criminals, but we still have to preserve their human rights. When you visit prisons, you will find pit latrines right where the inmates sleep. This is unacceptable.

Madam Speaker, we need to redesign our prisons. The essence of people being sent to prison is for them to change for the better. However, it appears that in Zambia, we are sending these people to prison to go and suffer. When they come out, they are worse than they were when they went in because of the conditions there.

Madam Speaker, it is only in Zambia that prison warders do not access the cells after 17 hours. When the prisoners are locked up after 17 hours, prison warders say they cannot open the cells even if one has been beaten, for fear of the prisoners escaping. As a result, there is a lot of abuse and fighting among the prisoners. Prisoners who cannot protect themselves are beaten up. Even where mattresses have been provided in a cell, you will find one prisoner sleeping on four mattresses while the others sleep on the floor. In other parts of the world, when there is trouble in the cells, the prison warders go to resolve the issue. This is unacceptable. We need to change our approach to the way we look after our prisoners.

Madam Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Madam Speaker, I will be very brief. However, I wish to express my sadness because we are debating an issue that has come before this House a number of times. This is the issue of what happens to women when their spouses die, especially under customary law.

Madam Speaker, this is an issue which has been before this House many times. We have also argued before this House many times that a country cannot have a dual system of law and expect to have justice. In effect, what has happened in our country is that the poor live in squalor and when their spouses die, we allow them to continue living in that squalor. We not only do that, we also ensure, by the way the law is created, that they become poorer than they were before their spouses died. This is a creature of the law and law can be changed. This Government knows that nobody is happy to see our mothers, sisters and children living in absolute and abject poverty when all it requires is the will by the Government to amend the law and ensure that those that are married inherit what remains after their spouses pass on.

Madam Speaker, our law makes a distinction.  The law has decided that under customary law, we can get away with this evil. Those who are married under customary law can live with their spouses and the moment their spouses die, the women are chased from their homes. This is something we have deliberately allowed knowing that it does not help engender development.

Madam Speaker, we need to rethink this issue. We cannot look at the same issue every year and have your Report come with the same issue to be debated year in and year out. What is difficult about making one law that states that if a person dies, the surviving spouse takes the property whether they married under customary law or under the statute? Where is the difficulty?

Madam Speaker, suffice to say that my view is that the difficulty lies in those of us who have been given this privilege of making laws. This is because most of us are very selfish at heart. We do not want what we have to remain with our wives because there is an underlying fear that they may not be faithful. We do not want to change the law for fear that our property may go into the hands of people we do not trust. My advice is that if you cannot trust your partner, do not get married to them. Once you are married to them, commit yourself to be with them and when you die, ensure that they inherit what you worked together to develop.
Madam Speaker, how can we have a situation where our law says that customary law is excluded in issues of inheritance? We create a law called the Intestate Succession Act which tries to ameliorate this, but this only applies along the line of rail where some people are a little educated and can, at least, try to salvage something from the customary system.

Madam Speaker, my suggestion is that rather than have a situation where only the elite, even if they are married under customary law, can salvage something, we create one law. Whether you are married under customary law or under statute, the effects of marriage should be the same. There should be no distinction between marriages.

Madam Speaker, I think, in a sense, it says a lot about how we view ourselves and our integrity. If we cannot respect those who mother us, I fear that we have no self-respect. If we cannot respect those who look after us when we are young, we are saying that we do not respect ourselves. This is because if we respected ourselves, we would ensure that our mothers do not suffer just because our father has passed on.

Madam Speaker, I do not understand why this issue should come up year in and year out when we know what to do and we can do it. Let us begin to develop this country.

Madam Speaker, I can give you an example of India. The development that we are seeing in India began with the same situation that we are in. The Indians realised that property was misused when it was not left to the family that had developed it. Therefore, they created one system of law and it has worked well for them. I do not, therefore, know why we cannot learn from them and why we continue with things that have proved unworkable.

Madam Speaker, underlying this also is our integrity, as a country. My colleagues have emphasised the plight of prisoners, and rightly so. The question is: why should a prison which was built before independence continue to be the same prison with the same facilities that we allow ourselves to be in. The colonialists built those prisons as prisons for kaffirs. They built them because they looked at us not as human beings, but as people that they should stash away there and we have continued with the same system. We have allowed our people and fellow Zambians to live in the same undignified environment. Somehow, we have even failed to provide them with a toilet that can allow refuse to be flushed out. What is the difficulty in buying a few toilet pans and putting them in the prisons and ensuring that there is a soak away for the waste to go out? How can we be talking about things like this? Surely, we should be embarrassed that certain people cannot even walk into our prisons because they are afraid of the stench coming out of there. Prisoners are human beings.

Madam Speaker, sometimes, life is such that an innocent man or woman can find themselves in prison because of an unjust decision. This means that we can actually expose an innocent person to such a life and by the time they come out of there, they are mentally deranged. We know of people who have come out of prison with there mental state totally destroyed. We need to have some pride in ourselves and begin to change some of the things that the colonialists left. We cannot go on as if life does not change. This is forty years after independence. We cannot blame the colonialists for the squalor we allow ourselves to be in. We have only ourselves to blame.

Surely, we have had time to make the necessary changes in prisons to ensure that things begin to run a little better even for the convict. If we want to rehabilitate them, we cannot put them in squalor. In fact, as it has been said, we have already rejected them, therefore, what do they owe society. If we look after them, the chances are that they can see their wrong doing and reform. How can a man reform when he is made to breathe the breath and stench of refuse? What are we talking about? What do we want for our country?

Madam Speaker, I am sure, even as I speak today, that we will have a report very similar to this next year with absolutely no change. We are so callous that we do not care so long as life goes on. It is like we are on an automatic wheel which just goes round and round. I wish to urge this Government, particularly the hon. and learned Minister of Justice, a very close friend of mine, that you have done a lot and can do more because you have the ability to do it. Do not let these people stop you from doing what you know you can do. Fight for what is right for our people. You should change the laws to ensure that our mothers live better than they have lived before.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa: Can we become a bridge with the past. Please, let us leave history behind and move to the future. We cannot always look backwards to disaster and imagine that we will develop a country.

Madam Speaker, we need to leave legacies. What will this sitting of Parliament be remembered for? At least, if they can remember us for having made life easier for our mothers, that is good enough. If it can be remembered that the prisons were improved during the time when State Counsel, Hon. Kunda, was in office, it will be very good. If it happens that five years from now nothing has happened, then the story continues.

 Madam Speaker, I pray that this Government will do something about these two issues.

 Madam Speaker, I thank you, very much.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Home Affairs (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Report. First of all, I want to thank the Committee for going about their work so judiciously and well.

Madam Speaker, the area of concern that I wish to debate is the area raised in the Report on the state of prisons.

Your Committee, at Page 13 of the Report, have tabled a report on Mukobeko Maximum Security Prison, Mporokoso State Prison, Mumbwa State Prison, Katombola Reformatory School and Lusaka Central Prison. These are only a few of the prisons that are available in Zambia. There are many other prisons in Zambia and it would have been wonderful for your Committee to have visited some of the prisons where reforms that are helping our people are being conducted. It is not true that these prisons have become death dens where people die soon after leaving. To the contrary, the prison system in Zambia has been totally reformed and continues to be reformed to ensure that prisoners are reformed by the time they come out of prison.

 It is important to note, Madam Speaker, that my Government has gone ahead to deal with the issue of congestion. We continue to decongest the prisons. Recently, 800 prisoners were released by His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia, on merit, so that they can have a free life and join their families and the people of Zambia. This helped to decongest the prisons.

Secondly, Madam Speaker, we also decongested some prisons by taking more than 750 prisoners to Kamfinsa Prison, where we were in a position to accommodate them. More than 2,000 have also been relocated to ensure that the prisons are decongested. For example, if the Committee had visited Kamfinsa Prison, they would have found the amount of work that has been done by this Government to make it a modern prison and to ensure that it accommodates more people and the diet of prisoners is improved.

I want to talk a little more about the renovations that have been going on and the construction of a new prison. This Government has, in this year’s Budget, allocated K24 billion, which was approved by this House, for the renovation and construction of prisons. With the K24 billion released, we are now in a position to present to the nation of Zambia a new prison that has just been constructed half way through the year, and is ready to be occupied by 200 prisoners in Mwembeshi. This prison structure is now standing. Several times, we have shown it on television and in the print media for the people of Zambia to see. I believe that your Committee, Madam Speaker, should have also visited Mwembeshi Prison and seen the reforms that the Government is doing.

In the same vein, Livingstone Prison is now going to be turned into a maximum security prison from the K24 billion that we have. A new prison is being constructed in Luwingu. A brand new structure is going to be constructed in Luwingu. The Government pays great attention to human rights and the issue of congestion in prisons.

Similarly, on the issue of feeding the prisoners and food in prisons, which has been raised by the Committee, the prisons now grow their own food. As a result, this year, the prisons produced more than 30,000 bags of maize which they are going to grind into mealie meal. When all the food is combined, the prisons will supply more than 70 per cent of their food requirements rather than buying from vendors. This is being done.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Also, the prisoners, themselves, grow the food. This helps in their rehabilitation so that when they come out of prison, they are able to engage in activities such as farming and tailoring. They now make their own uniforms in prison.

Only yesterday, I was at Kabwe Maximum Security Prison and I saw the large tailoring shop that has been established there, I know that it will accommodate even contracts from outside other than just for prison uniforms.

The Prisons Service, itself, produces more than 100 trays of eggs per day in order not only to feed the prisoners, but also to sell and raise money to ensure the standards in the prisons are maintained.

Madam Speaker, apart from that, farms, for example, dairy and beef farms have been put in place. I am happy to report that the prisoners, themselves, are rearing these animals. This will enable them learn how to rear cattle. We have more than 400 animals in place and these are being reared by the prisoners so that when they are released, they can rear animals and join society.

Madam Speaker, the Government is doing everything possible with regard to the congestion in women’s prisons that has been mentioned. For example, a new cell has just been constructed at Mukobeko Maximum Prison for Women and this will help reduce the congestion.

Madam, I wanted to respond to the issues that have been raised in this Report. The Government is doing everything possible to address them. Hon. Members of Parliament have debated and said that the system of colonial prisons is still in existence, but this Government has decided to change it. We are moving towards a system where prisoners will be reformed when they return to society unlike the primitive system that was in existence in the colonial days.

Madam Speaker, I want to say that I am the Chairperson for Prison Reforms in Central, East and West Africa …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: … in order for us to ensure that all the prisoners in Africa are treated as human beings.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Any further debate? The mover may wind up debate.

Mr Mwiimbu: Madam Speaker, on behalf of your Committee, I would like to express my appreciation to Hon. Muyanda, Hon. Kambwili, Hon. Mwansa and the Hon. Minister of Home of Affairs for the contributions which they have made to your Report. I wish to thank them for the very valuable contributions they have made.

I thank you, Madam Speaker, and I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

_______{mospagebreak}

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE PRESIDENTIAL EMOLUMENTS (Amendment) BILL

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be read a second time.

Madam Speaker, the object of the Presidential Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 18 of 2008 is to amend the Presidential Emoluments Act so as to revise the salary and allowances payable to the President.

Madam, this august House will recall that, during the first quarter of this year, 2008, the Government approved a 15 per cent salary increment for all public workers, effective 1st January, 2008, which has since been effected.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: The President, like any other worker in the land, is equally entitled to a review of his salary, …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: … which was last reviewed in 2007. This change can only be effected by amending the Presidential Emoluments Act, Cap. 261, of the Laws of Zambia.

Madam, I, therefore, seek the support of this august House for the Second Reading stage of this Bill

Madam Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Mpombo: Madam Speaker, I just wish to express my appreciation for the overwhelming support that the House has rendered to this Bill.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.
Committee on Wednesday, 13th August, 2008.

THE MINISTERIAL AND PARLIAMENTARY OFFICES (Emoluments) (Amendment) BILL, 2008

Mr Mpombo: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, the object of the Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices (Emoluments) (Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 19 of 2008 is to adjust the salaries and allowances of the Office of the Vice-President, Speaker, Deputy Speaker, Cabinet Minister, Leader of the Opposition, Deputy Minister and Private Member of the National Assembly.

Madam Speaker, the salaries of holders of Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices were last increased in 2007. Meanwhile, in the first quarter of this year, all public service workers’ salaries were increased effective, 1st January, 2008. It is, therefore, only fair that the salaries of holders of Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices be adjusted upwards to keep abreast of the other public workers.

This change can only be effected by amending the Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices (Emoluments) Act. Madam Speaker, I, therefore, seek the support of this august House for the second reading stage of this Bill.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Madam Speaker, once again, I wish to express my appreciation for the overwhelming support that the House has rendered to this Bill.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 13th August, 2008.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICES (Emoluments) (Amendment) BILL, 2008

Mr Mpombo: Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Madam Speaker, the object of the Constitutional Offices (Emoluments) (Amendment) Bill, National Assembly Bill No. 20 of 2008, is to amend the Constitutional Offices (Emoluments) Act so as to increase the salaries and allowances payable to holders of offices to which Article 119 of the Constitution of Zambia applies.

Madam Speaker, in the first quarter of 2008, the Government approved a 15 per cent salary increment for all public workers, effective 1st January, 2008. This directive has since been effected for public officers other than the holders of Constitutional Offices. A change can only be effected by amending the Constitutional Offices (Emoluments) Act, Cap. 261 of the laws of Zambia.

Furthermore, Madam Speaker, the holders of Constitutional Offices do not belong to any union to represent them. It is, therefore, important and fair that the Government takes care of their interests as a way of motivating them. I, therefore, seek the support of this august House at the second reading stage of this Bill.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Madam Speaker, once again, I wish to express my appreciation for the overwhelming support that this august House has rendered to this Bill.

I thank you, Madam.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Mwabomba!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Wednesday, 13th August, 2008.

___________

MOTIONS

REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON ENERGY, ENVIRONMENT AND TOURISM

(Debate resumed)

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Madam Speaker, before the House adjourned, I was just thanking the Chairman and his Committee for a job well done during their tour and I highlighted some of the issues raised. I did acknowledge that most of the issues that were mentioned in the Report had actually been highlighted in my Ministerial Statement, needless to say that there are some specific issues raised which I would now like to highlight.

Madam Speaker, some will be a repetition and here I am talking about the age of the infrastructure which is providing electricity to the country. It is known that the Government has invested huge amounts of money in rehabilitating the aged infrastructure. The infrastructure at Kafue Gorge and Kariba North Bank is in excess of forty years old while the one at the Victoria Falls Power Station is in excess of 60 years old. The Government, in realising the need to secure electricity for this country, did embark on a programme of rehabilitating this infrastructure, to which a sum of US$350 million was committed by the Government and this work is ongoing.

Madam Speaker, it is planned that the rehabilitation works at Kariba North Bank will finish early next year while those at Kafue Gorge will finish before the end of this year. After the rehabilitation of infrastructure, the security of supply will improve greatly and even the effects of load shedding will reduce and the Zambian citizen will, once again, enjoy an uninterrupted electricity supply. Industry and the economy, at large, will also benefit from the increased generation of 210 Mega Watts that will ensue.

Madam Speaker, a concern was raised that load shedding has a negative impact on the performance of the economy as some energy will not be available. The Government has acknowledged this, but in order to further guarantee that energy will be available …

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: Ni wenye.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, I was saying that the Government has instituted various short-term, medium-term and long-term measures to address the energy situation. Among the short-term measures that the Government has undertaken is, for instance, availing the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) the sum of US$50 million to help it complete the million dollar power rehabilitation project. As I mentioned earlier, we expect that by December we shall restore 300 MW at Kafue Gorge and by the first quarter of 2009 another 150 MW at Kariba North Bank Power Station.

Madam, you recall that early this year, I mentioned that His Excellency, the President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, launched a programme to address the management of the demand side of the electricity supply industry. His Excellency encouraged citizens to use energy efficient appliances and compact florescent lights, as well as switch off electrical appliances which are not in use.

Madam Speaker, the Government also announced appropriate fiscal measures to encourage the importation of energy efficient devices by lowering duty on such items. It was planned and expected, if the citizens could support this programme, that this measure would save the country close to 160 MW which is equivalent to putting up a new power station.

Hon. Members were making noise.

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, I would like to request hon. Members to pay attention because these are the questions they keep asking. Among the medium-term measures the Government has adopted is the rehabilitation of power stations in Luapula Province at Musonda Falls, Chishimba Falls, Muswasi as well as Muzuwa. The objective of this is that once implemented, we shall be able to not only increase generation which can go towards supporting investments in these areas, but also stabilise the loads in these areas.

In the medium-term, the Government also does intends to put up hydro-power stations at Chavuma Falls, Chikata Falls, West Mwinga, Kalene Hills, Kabompo Gorge and many other sites in Eastern Province. We hope this is going to address the deficit the country is facing.

In the long term, we intend to develop the Kafue Gorge Lower, and extend the Kariba North Bank and Itezhi-tezhi power stations. We also intend to explore the option of tapping into the vast resources of coal that this country has in Southern Province.

Madam Speaker, I would like to assure hon. Members who were concerned about the unbundling of ZESCO that the Government will carry on the programme of commercialising ZESCO to ensure that it attains financial, operational and customer service efficiency. Of course, to realise these objectives, one of the cardinal issues that the Government is addressing is that of tariffs. Hon. Members will recall that we have come to this House and repeatedly said that it is important that consumers across the broad structure of the sector pay cost effective tariffs. Therefore, the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) is working on a plan and has signed a three year tariff regulation plan with ZESCO. Of course, this tariff plan has benchmarks that the local utility company must adhere to.

With these measures, Madam Speaker, we hope that the sector will attract investment. However, this investment should not only be focussed on foreigners. We are, therefore, calling on the local Zambians, through the hon. Members of this House, to tap into the resources made available by the Government, especially through the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission, and invest in generation programmes as well as other energy projects.

A concern was raised, Madam Speaker, about some of our people in the Southern Province who were displaced during the construction of the Kariba Dam, who it is believed are not benefiting from the electricity sector. I would like to assure the House that the Government, in mitigating this, constituted what was called the Gwembe-Tonga Development Projects. The major objective of these projects was to address issues relating to the development of infrastructure, agriculture and social services. By the end of the projects, schools and clinics had been provided to the local communities. In addition, some of the equipment that remained was handed over to them to utilise. Therefore, the issue of corporate social responsibility was addressed.

Madam Speaker, some hon. Members sought clarification on the Rural Electrification Master Plan. I think that, even in today’s response, that issue has been adequately addressed.

Madam Speaker, I would like to, once again, thank the hon. Members on your Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism for their well researched concerns. My Government stands ready anytime to meet them should there be any issues that they feel still need to be addressed.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Nkombo: Madam Speaker, in winding up the debate, I would like to, firstly, extend my gratitude to your Committee for assisting in generating this very succinct report. I would like to go further and thank the seconder of the Motion, Hon. Faustina Sinyangwe, for ably seconding the Motion for the adoption of this Report. I would like to further thank all the hon. Members, who contributed and added their wise words to this very important national and topical issue. My gratitude goes to Hon. Ernest Mwansa, Hon. Dr Katele Kalumba, Hon. Chongo as well as Hon. Major Robby Chizhyuka.

I would like to further extend my gratitude to the hon. Minister for his contribution towards the adoption of this Report. I want to also thank the Office of the Clerk. Last but not least, I would like to thank the Office of Mr Speaker for allowing us to execute the mission as we did.

Madam Speaker, in concluding, I would like to emphasise to the Government that we should shift from being a talk shop. We all realise that what ought to have been done in the power sector many years ago did not happen and this is the reason we have found ourselves in the situation that we are in today. As a Committee, we believe that the optimum answer is for the Government to move swiftly in permitting whoever they are going to select to develop the Kafue Gorge Lower Power Station, which has a capacity of about 750 mega watts. This is the only solution that will be long lasting.

With these few remarks, I thank you very much, Madam Speaker.

Question put and agreed to.

ADJOURNMENT

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the house do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.

_________

The House adjourned at 1808 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 13th August, 2008.