DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY

Friday, 12th September, 2008

The House met at 0900 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENTS BY MR SPEAKER

APPOINTMENT OF MR  S. KACHIMBA, MP, ON THE COMMITTEE ON SPORT, YOUTH AND CHILD AFFAIRS

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the House that, in accordance with Standing Orders Nos. 131 and 157, Mr S. Kachimba, MP, has been appointed to serve on the Committee on Sport, Youth and Child Affairs.

Thank you.

COMMEMORATION OF INTER-PARLIAMENTARY UNION

Mr Speaker: Hon. Members, I wish to inform the honourable House that the Zambian Parliament will join other Inter-Parliamentary Union (IPU) member parliaments in commemorating the International Day of Democracy which will be observed for the first time this year on Monday, September 15, 2008.

The International Day of Democracy was declared following a United Nations General Assembly Resolution that was passed on November 7, 2007. This decision carries specific significance for parliaments the world over in that it affirms the principles of democracy, the elements and exercise of democratic governments and the international scope for democracy.

The International Day of Democracy will, thus, enable the global community celebrate these shared principles, and will also serve as a reminder of the need to promote and protect democracy, including gender equality, human rights and fundamental freedoms.

In commemorating this day, the IPU Zambia National Group has lined up a number of activities. These include promotional talks that have been conducted by members of the Executive Committee of the IPU Zambia National Group on Parliament  Radio to explain the history of democracy, the Inter-Parliamentary Union and the International Day of Democracy.

This will be followed by an interview on our national television on Sunday, 14th September, 2008, at 1200 hours, to inform the Zambian public about the event, especially that it is being commemorated for the first time.

I urge all hon. Members to listen to, and watch, the programme to acquaint themselves with the activities of this international event.

The activities to commemorate the day will take place here at Parliament in the Auditorium. A number of Lusaka-based schools have been invited to take part in the celebrations.

Hon. Members, who will be in Lusaka by that date, and who wish to attend the celebrations, are welcome.

Thank you.

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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

RE-OPENING OF THE POLICE POST AT KASOMALUNGA ISLAND

361. Dr Machungwa (Luapula) asked the Minister of Home Affairs when the Police Post at Kasomalunga Island, which was closed without explanation in 2002, would be re-opened.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Bonshe): Mr Speaker, I wish to state that there are no plans to re-open the Police Post at Kasomalunga Island because there is no infrastructure to accommodate officers. However, the island is being adequately patrolled since a speed boat was acquired for the same purpose.

Thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Deputy Minister of Home Affairs aware that the speed boat that was purchased by the police at Samfya cannot reach Kasomalunga and those islands because it cannot navigate those channels? It can only go on the lake. So, that the area cannot be patrolled by the police, at all. Is he aware that we had built up infrastructure for the police post which infrastructure is still there, although it is being used by teachers now? So, how is he hoping to patrol the area when they cannot reach the area?

Mr Bonshe: Mr Speaker, as far as the records are showing, there is a speed boat which is patrolling in the area. We are not aware that the speed boat does not reach the area. However, there is no infrastructure to accommodate police officers so that they stay there. It is a police post and adequate measures are being made to ensure that there is protection and this is being done.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated that he is not aware that the speed boat that they provided in Luapula Constituency cannot navigate to the area which the hon. Member of Parliament is concerned about. Now that he is aware, what does he intend to do about it?

Mr Bonshe: Mr Speaker, as soon as we are informed by the concerned officers there because that is a police post which falls under a station and division, we are going to find ways and means to ensure that the protection is given to that area.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what happened to the communication radio that was donated by the Germans and the boats that the police used to use.

Mr Bonshe: Mr Speaker, that is a new question about the radio, …

Laughter

Mr Bonshe: …. and there is nothing related to the radio having being donated. You cannot talk about a radio and a speed boat. There is no correlation.

Interruptions

Mr Bonshe: If the Member of Parliament wants to have this information, he is free to come to my office or to the Inspector General’s office and the information will be provided to him accordingly.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, the island being talked about takes about two hours journey on water from Samfya District. Is the hon. Minister really serious in answering the hon. Member’s question  by saying that the island can be monitored and patrolled adequately from Samfya?

Mr Bonshe: Mr Speaker, as far as the police command is concerned, the area is being patrolled adequately. If the patrolling is not being done adequately, then we are going to make a follow up and see what we can do about it.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the officers that he has said patrol the area have not been getting their monthly allowances?

Mr Bonshe: Mr Speaker, the allowances are given to officers as they fall due and the officers that are there are getting their allowances.

I thank you, Sir.

POLE AND MUD CLASSROOMS AND TEACHERS’ HOUSES

364. Mr Mwapela (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Education when the ministry would rebuild the pole and mud classrooms and teachers’ houses at Ufufu Basic School in Kalabo Central Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the structures will be considered in the 2009 District Infrastructure Plan.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) has been in power for more than 16 years now. Is the hon. Minister of Education proud of the record of the MMD considering the fact that there are still pole and mud school structures in the Western Province, which is a stronghold of the MMD?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, it has been stated on the Floor of this House that as Government, we have a programme to reconstruct the pole and mud structures. This programme, which is on-going, has started and we have set targets. So, the programme is in place and the hon. Member who has asked this question is very much aware of the details of that programme.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

CONSTRUCTION OF BRIDGE TO LINK SOLWEZI WEST AND MWINILUNGA EAST CONSTITUENCIES

365. Mr Katuka (Mwinilunga East) asked the Minister of Works and Supply when a bridge to link Solwezi West Parliamentary Constituency and Mwinilunga East Parliamentary Constituency on the Musangeshi River at Ifumba would be constructed.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the ministry has no immediate intention to construct a bridge across the Musangeshi River to link Solwezi West and Mwinilunga East Parliamentary Constituencies.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Katuka: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister what immediate plans the Government has to help these people who have made their own initiative for the past 43 years since independence?

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, the ministry will look into this matter and include it in the 2009 Annual Work Plan.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

POLLUTION FROM QUARRY MINING ALONG LUSAKA-KAFUE ROAD

366. Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development what measures had been taken to reduce pollution emanating from the quarry mining along the Lusaka-Kafue Road.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, the following are the measures that have been taken to reduce dust pollution emanating from quarry mining along the Lusaka-Kafue Road:

(i) installation of water sprays at crushing, conveying, loading and discharge points; and

(ii) using of water-carts for watering along roadways where haulage of material takes place.

Mr Speaker, the Mines Safety Department, in conjunction of the Occupation Management Board and a consultant from the Copperbelt University, has been collecting dust samples from the Kafue Quarry and sending them abroad for analysis. After the results are out, the project team will come up with an action plan to mitigate the high pollution levels. This action plan may include an upgrade of the dust suppression systems currently in place at the quarry. The long term measures are to ensure that all the quarry operations are enclosed while maintaining dust suppression measures.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, arising from the answer that the hon. Minister has given, I would like to find out whether the Government has any plans to compensate the people who are suffering from silicosis or pneumoconiosis as a result of the quarry operations along the Kafue Road.

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, so far, we have not had any complaint of an individual suffering any health difficulties as a result of quarry mining in that area. So, that question cannot be answered as we have not had such a complaint.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that yesterday we were told by one of the hon. Ministers that the Government does not carry out environmental risk assessments, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development whether the Government had carried out such an exercise before this mine was established.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, pollution of air, water systems and the general environment is a great concern in the mining industry and all efforts are being made to ensure that harmful effects are minimised. This is why we have taken steps to improve the operations of the Mines Safety Department by increasing on levels of manpower and equipment. So, all efforts are being taken to ensure that pollution is controlled.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has confirmed that there is pollution at the Kafue Quarry and this means that silica dust is being released to the houses along this road. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether there are any plans by the Government to start sending the people living along that road for pneumoconiosis examinations.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, that is a very good follow-up question but as I said in my answer through my hon. Deputy Minister, we are carrying out a study with a consultant to determine the levels of dust as well as the composition of the dust. We do not know what is exactly in the dust but after that study, we will be able to determine and then institute measures to minimise the harmful effects.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, the Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development has informed this House that watering is part of the process of controlling dust. Could he tell this august House the truth as to what practical measures he is putting in place to control the fallout of dust arising from an outdated method of blasting that has aggravated the fallout of dust to the villagers, motorists and other environmental effects?

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, in addition to the current efforts, suppressing dust in the nation is by way of using water to spray in the areas as the Deputy Minister has mentioned. The long-term plan is to enclose all the areas surrounding the operation and leaving only discharge points so that dust is contained as effectively as we can.

I thank you, Sir.

 SCHOOL FEES CHARGED BY DAY AND BOARDING HIGH SCHOOLS

367. Mr Lubinda (Kabwata) asked the Minister of Education what the average school fees charged by day high schools in Lusaka were and how they compared with the school fees charged by boarding high schools in rural districts.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the average fees for day schools is K410,588 per year. As for boarding schools, fees are K1,713,857 per year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, may I find out whether the Ministry of Education fixes the fees for high schools or it is individual schools, and on what basis are these fees fixed?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the fees are fixed by the Parents Teachers Associations (PTAs) in the schools. There are many factors which they take into account; factors like education materials, rehabilitation programmes, construction of new projects within the school before they arrive at an estimated cost for the following year.

I thank you, Sir.

CONSTRUCTION OF CHILUBI MAGISTRATE’S   COURT

368. Mr Chisala (Chilubi) asked the Minister of Justice when a magistrate’s court would be constructed in Chilubi District where a magistrate had already been posted.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda): Mr Speaker, the Judiciary has an on-going programme of constructing court buildings in all districts where there are no magistrate buildings and Chilubi District is one of them. However, the implementation of the project is subject to availability of funds. It is, therefore, difficult for me to state exactly when a magistrate’s court will be constructed in Chilubi District.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chisala: Mr Speaker, it is a well-known fact that accommodation for the supporting staff is a critical issue. Is the hon. Minister planning to put up houses for the supporting staff in the district within the shortest possible time?

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, when a programme is put in place, that will be considered. At the moment, there are no such plans.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has informed this House that there is no magistrate’s court but the magistrate is there and cases are going on, where does he think the magistrate conducts his cases?

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, various initiatives are employed where there are no magistrate buildings. If there are some buildings that can be used as magistrate court buildings in areas where we do not have buildings, we can use those buildings.

I thank you, Sir.{mospagebreak}

 GOVERNMENT SECONDARY SCHOOLS BUILT FROM JANUARY, 2007 TO DECEMBER, 2007

369. Mr Kambwili asked the Minister of Education how many junior secondary schools and high schools the Government built in each province from January, 2007 to December, 2007.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Education did not build any junior secondary school. However, high schools have been built as follows:

(i) Ndola Girls Technical School in the Copperbelt Province which the Government started building in 2004 and was completed this year;

(ii) Kafumbwe High School in Eastern province which was started in 2004 and was completed in 2007 and;

(iii) Lumezi High School, also in Eastern Province, which was started in 2004 and was completed in 2007.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, this Government has been converting primary schools into basic schools, meaning that we will have more Grade 9s than the available places in high schools. With the record and numbers that we have been given, where do they expect the Grade 9s to be accommodated since they are not building high schools?

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Kambwili for his passionate interest in the education sector.

Mr Speaker, we have indicated very clearly that the development of education sector is taking place in a balanced manner, from the basic level up to the tertiary level. We have indicated on the Floor of this House that in addition to the Basic Infrastructure Development Programme which is comprehensive and taking place effectively, we are constructing high schools and, at the moment, we have thirty-one high schools being constructed in the country. Soon we shall be advertising for the construction of twelve more high schools to make it forty-three high schools. This is a continuous programme. We have a target to construct more high schools in the country so that we can accommodate more and more children who are graduating or leaving Grade 9 level. Therefore, this Government programme is very good for the human resource development of our country in line with Vision 2030.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, if I heard the hon. Deputy Minister correctly, he only mentioned three high schools being built from 2002 to 2007. There have been some complaints from hon. Members of Parliament …

Mr Speaker: Order!

You are debating. What is your question?

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, in 2007 the hon. Minister of Education informed this House that the Government was constructing four schools in Ndola rural (Masaiti, Kafulafuta, Mpongwe and many more). Could the hon. Minister inform this House as to whether the Government has cancelled that programme?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member was listening, in my response, I stated that we have thirty-one high schools which are under construction and the very schools he has mentioned are in that process and so the construction programme is on.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sikota (Livingstone): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister of Education to confirm for us that the average cost for a technical boarding high school is about K27 billion and, therefore, if somehow we could find somewhere a figure of about K231 billion, we will be able to have one high school in each province. Is it correct that if he found about K231 billion, he would be able to put up one boarding high school in each province this year?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I think the hon. Member took glance of my notes yesterday when I was responding to one of the colleagues. It is not a hypothetical situation, but a reality that the Government has plans to put up one technical high school in each province. We have so far completed Ndola Girls Technical Boarding High School and the girls are already in school …

Hon. Government Member: He saw them.

Laughter

Professor Lungwangwa: … and other technical boarding high schools are being constructed. We are not here to hypothesise or theorise, but to be pragmatic. This is a pragmatic and practical Government and programmes are on the ground.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Colonel Chanda (Kanyama): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Education whether he is aware that Kanyama Constituency is the only constituency in my research that has neither a secondary nor high school and yet in terms of population density, we beat most of the constituencies. Will the hon. Minister confirm that Kanyama has no high school and, if so, what plans has he got in providing one?

Interruptions

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I was with the hon. Member in Kanyama when we were settling the issue of land which was controversial. Some of the residents did not want to have a basic school constructed and fortunately we were able to settle that problem and the basic school is now under construction.  If the hon. Member cares to look at our Infrastructure Development Plan which copy he has, he will be able to find that we have Kanyama High School in the plan and the construction programme is in process.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Education if he has plans to construct high schools in all the constituencies because the children have to travel very long distances in some of our rural constituencies or not access higher education at all for lack of high schools in their areas.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, our interest as a Government, clearly, is to extend education opportunities to as many of our children as possible, especially those who are under served in the remote parts of the country to cut long distances and other inconveniences and as resources become available, that goal will be addressed and hopefully achieved.

I thank you, Sir.

REHABILITATION OF MWAPE LOCAL COURT

370. Mr F. R. Tembo (Nyimba) asked the Minister of Justice when Mwape Local Court in Nyimba Parliamentary Constituency will be rehabilitated.

Mr Kunda, SC.: Mr Speaker, the Judiciary has embarked on a nation wide programme of constructing and rehabilitating court buildings. However, the implementation of the programme is subject to availability of funds. Mwape Local Court in Nyimba Parliamentary Constituency will, therefore, be rehabilitated when funds are available.

Thank you, Sir.

Colonel Chanda: Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister to confirm that in spite of land being available in Kanyama for local courts and funds allocated accordingly in the previous budgets, why it has taken so long to provide the people of Kanyama with a local court. If there are any programmes by the ministry, how long shall we wait before we see construction of this local court?

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, that is a new question.

Thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! The Chair would want to hear some kind of an answer from the hon. and learned Minister of Justice.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Land is available and funds have been voted, what is the next course of action?

Laughter

Mr Kunda: Mr Speaker, as I said, we have a programme of constructing courts and when we make the budget, we will consider areas where there are no courts, but I cannot say that the local court in his constituency will be considered at that stage.

Thank you, Sir.

____________{mospagebreak}

MOTION

SUSPENSION OF STANDING ORDERS 20, 21(1) AND 101

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that Standing Orders 20, 21(1), if necessary, and Standing Order 101 be suspended to enable the House to complete all business on the Order Paper and all matters arising therefrom and that on such completion, the House do adjourn sine die.

Mr Speaker, hon. Members will recall that on Tuesday, this week, I indicated to the House that all things being equal, I would move this motion today. The purpose of this motion is to enable the House conclude its business today so that the House can take a break and attend to other equally important national duties outside this House.

Sir, during this meeting of the House, which began on Tuesday, 5th of August, 2008, the House has sat for a total of fourteen days and has discussed many issues of national importance. For instance, the House extensively debated the motion on the untimely death of His Excellency the President, the late Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, who passed away on Tuesday, 19th of August, 2008, at Percy Military Hospital in Paris, France and was put to rest on Wednesday, 3rd of September, 2008, at Embassy Park here in Lusaka.

Mr Speaker, the House also debated one Private Member’s Motion. A total of 182 questions were placed on the order paper and considered by the House. The House also considered seven Sessional and Select Committee reports. In addition, seven ministerial statements were delivered and discussed in the House and 21 annual Quasi-Government reports were received and laid on the Table of the House. The House passed 13 Government Bills.

Sir, the accomplishment of this heavy workload by the House during this short and difficult meeting can only be attributed to team work and commitment to national duty by the hon. Members.

Mr Speaker, the demise of the Head of State has not only cast a dark cloud on the Zambian nation, but has also brought about a number of challenges and obligations which require urgent attention. One of these is the constitutional requirement to hold a presidential bye-election within 90 days from the 19th of August, 2008, when the vacancy occurred in the Office of the President.

It has, therefore, become necessary for the House to adjourn today so that hon. Members can prepare for this unavoidable constitutional requirement.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, the Acting President has announced the 30th of October, 2008, as the date for the election to the Office of President. Hon. Members, therefore, need time to go and campaign for their preferred candidates.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Furthermore, the rainy season is about to begin. It is, therefore, appropriate that the House adjourns today to enable both the Government and hon. Members of this August House to go and assess the distribution of agricultural inputs in readiness for the planting season which in some parts of the country has already begun or is about to commence.

Finally, Sir, may I take this opportunity to pay tribute to you, Mr Speaker, the hon. Madam Deputy Speaker and the Deputy Chairperson of the Committees of the Whole House for the efficient and non-partisan manner in which you guided the proceedings of this House during this difficult and sorrowful meeting.

Let me also express my profound gratitude to the Clerk of the National Assembly and her staff for the efficient services they rendered which enabled this House to operate smoothly.

In the same vein, I wish to acknowledge the important workload which was generated by the officers in the Office of the Vice-President and other Government ministries and departments which collectively contributed to the success of the second meeting of the Second Session of the Tenth National Assembly.

Mr Speaker, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo (Pemba): Mr Speaker, I support the motion on the Floor. However, I have a few observations to make. Firstly, I wish to convey on behalf of the people of Pemba, who I represent in this Assembly, deepest sympathy and condolences to the late President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC’s family, his Cabinet and, indeed, the MMD on this national loss.

It is our wish, while conveying those sympathies, that we see collective responsibility of the men and women that are left to run this country because life and national development must go on. We do not want to see some deviations and some kind of irresponsible collective responsibility we witnessed during the funeral. We will support you if you are united.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, having stated that, this is also Budget time. I know that the programme to prepare the Budget started in July and ends in November. The issue of the death of the President could actually divert some of the attention of the Budget framers.  I want to believe that the Bank of Zambia and the Ministry of Finance and National Planning have so far done a reasonably commendable job if one cares to see, hear and read. The macro-economic stabilisation, which I will not detail because I am very certain that all hon. Members do hear, see and read, has been on the right track. Those two teams must be supported to ensure our economic development. This is the reason I am against ant-hill politics in this Chamber. We would like the Budget to come as scheduled.

However, in the preparation of this Budget and in the running of the by-election on the 30th of October, 2008, I want to advise my colleagues on your right that what we have seen about friendly countries helping us with money for agriculture does re-assure us that you will not dip too much into areas of social sector development in the process. You could also look at other areas. I do not wish to see the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning tampering with the programmes in water and sanitation. I do not want to see the hon. Minister diverting even a cent of the money from CDF under pressure from his more political actors of ant-hill politics. We need that money to develop our constituencies. We do not want money for fighting cattle diseases to go to elections. Please, listen to me. We do not want money from empowerment programmes for the less privileged in our society being diverted. The list is very long. Please, ensure that this money is held properly.

Mr Speaker, while on the Budget, I want to suggest that it is time we took decentralisation seriously. This over-centralisation of power in Lusaka must slowly be going back to the provinces and districts and I hope the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, while preparing their Budget and in consultation with the able Ministry of Local Government and Housing, will ensure that this devolution of power starts moving now. There is no good reason why everything should be done from here when it takes a thousand kilometers to go and monitor projects from the furthest place of this country. I think this is the time to implement the concept of power to the people and, perhaps, start with the Budget that is being prepared.

 Interruptions

Mr Matongo: We should not use a piecemeal approach when empowering our people, but do it through the Budget process at provincial, district, constituency and ward levels. Let us depoliticise the Public Service. This country has been impoverished by unbridled political ambitions. Sir, even people who have no programme for this country want to be in power and this is what has been the problem.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: I would like to appeal to my colleagues on the Opposition and Government sides to be very unanimous on the need to have a Government that can work for the people. A Government that works for the people should decentralise.

Mr Ntundu: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: A Government that wants to work for the people should depoliticise when elections are over. Furthermore, a Government that wants to work for the people must hand over power to the people that elected it. That is a clarion call I am making today.

I would also like to advise my friend, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande), that these are hard times. Perhaps, it is time we started looking at the nature of Government. I will not be averse to the re-introduction of the National Planning Commission. I want to remind the Leader of Government Business in the House that if you want the Five-year National Development Plan, attain the Millennium Development Goals, and the Vision 2030 to move forward, you need to restructure some of the departments in the Government. We will support you if you re-introduce the National Planning Commission.

Interruptions

Mr Matongo: They are writing the Budget, at least, for now. That is the message even for those who may come and who may not come.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: I am saying that since you have been tasked do the Budget now, please, consider re-introducing the National Planning Commission. Technical Co-operation should be reallocated. I appreciate that Foreign Affairs are our eyes and, at the moment, in league with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, why should community services be under a different ministry when we have the Ministry of Local Government and Housing? I went to Monze Secondary School and I noticed that there were community service offices in Monze that covered local people. Why can we not have them now?

Mr Muyanda: There were two offices in Choma.

Mr Matongo: Indeed, there are two offices in Choma. Why can we not recast those community services to the areas where there are people already that can administer them? I am suggesting, here, that we should relieve the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and create centrality of treasury duties while we help reallocate resources to where they are most needed.

With regard to the Ministry of Works and Supply, we have heard of the equipment that has arrived. We hope our young friend, the hon. Minister for Works and Supply (Mr Simbao), will put these pieces of equipment to the best utilisation on a priority basis. We would also like him to ensure that roads are done wherever there are people. Please, consult the councillors and hon. Members of Parliament while you are working on those priorities. We are closer to the people than you who sit in Lusaka, in an over-centralised administration. I know that you are very active but, please, listen to us.

The Government printers must be put to use because the idea of printing ballot papers for a by-election elsewhere is shameful.

Mrs J. C. M. Phiri: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: Let us enhance our capabilities. It is shameful that forty-four years after independence we still cannot print ballot papers in Lusaka where, in fact, you are over centralised. What are we paying you for? I would like to state …

Interruptions

Mr Matongo: Scream and you will be hit hard.

I would like to state that culverts and bridges as per priorities of the councillors, Members of Parliament and your own, should be looked into. There is no longer the need to ask a clinic to buy linen for hospitals when you had a centralised Government Stores which seemed to work well. It works well even in a country like Zimbabwe where the politics is mad.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: It has worked well in Botswana and Kenya where there are more people than us. Please, Hon. Magande, re-introduce Government Stores. There is a bit of irresponsibility out there. The only centralisation should be for you to distribute your linen to the poor hon. Minister of Health’s (Dr Chituwo) hospitals wherever they are.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: We are talking about the future based on a Budget being prepared now. That is the way we should go about it. The Leader of Government Business in the House has said, “we go and campaign; we go and assess agriculture.” How we can we assess production in agriculture? The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives has not told us how much fertiliser is there. We have not been told where the seed is. Yes, we are aware that from 125,000 tonnes, the Fertiliser Support Programme we will go to 200,000 tonnes out of a requirement of 800,000 tonnes. That is a drop in the ocean. That is not being serious with food security. They have told us that they can only fund 200,000 tonnes. Can you revisit this?

Sir, it is always sad that when we have heavy rainfall in one corner of Zambia, we have to call upon donors for assistance when our peasant farmers can produce our own food. We should be ashamed when the Vice-President’s Office begs for food. The answer is in the provision of affordable fertiliser and seed to the 800 peasant farmers that have been identified to grow food. We would like these figures to be revisited. I would like to thank Hon. Magande for bringing in extra funding from the Japanese. How I wish you could get more. Unless the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives moves in the direction I have just stated, we will not make headway.

Mr Speaker, I will only comment on the price of maize because it is our staple food. The price of this crop is not commensurate with the cost of production. Who says there is no labour cost in rural areas? The peasant farmers have children who need money for school at the end of the day. The cost of maize per kilogramme must be at a profit to the producer or the peasant farmer. At the moment, we are subsidising the consumer in town while denying money to the producers in rural areas. How else can you support food security when your thinking is that agriculture is not business? I think agriculture and maize production is business and that is why farmers must make profit out of it.

I would like a peasant farmer in Pemba to make a minimum of 15 per cent profit on a bag of maize out the fertiliser that they buy. That is the way to run institutions. You cannot continue thinking that people from other countries will continue feeding us and you go singing that donors have given us food.

Do not ever give our maize to people who cannot say, “thank you”. Do you understand? Let us keep our maize here.

Laughter

Mr Matongo: Sir, yes, you gave maize to some country whose President cannot even appreciate. Let us keep our maize and let it rot here. We are self sufficient in production and that is ultimate. The principle of cost of production by a bag of maize or kilograms should be the case. That way, you will be a working Government that the late President so established. May His Soul Rest In Peace. If you do not do that, then you should not blame us because we will throw you out.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, the fact that the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development do not tell us about the abundance of minerals in this country, they should be able to have a plan for investment in coal, for instance, in Southern Province. That is the way to create jobs. We are not asking you to get money from the Treasury. We are simply encouraging you to invite investors to come and partner with Zambia. That is the way we should do things.

Hon. PF Member interrupted.

Mr Matongo: Well, if you are in a hurry, the door is open. Go!

Laughter

Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development should be able to establish this. We need to have investment in this country. For those who shout at investors, it is time they do not seek power.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: Sir, we want investment in this country. Anybody who does not understand economic theory, taxation policies and other matters of that nature, should leave it to us, and we will help you.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, we want to support a manifesto that creates jobs, that secures food, that constructs roads and that provides us with clean water and sanitation. We want our children to go to schools that have good standards. In short, we want our children to go to world class schools and world class hospitals. We also want to have a situation where the children of this country are not sent abroad for education. We also want a situation where our patients are not sent to Morningside Hospital. We should have hospitals of that nature in this country. That is the equitability of investment that we are talking about. In the process, there must be unity and development in this country.

Mr Speaker, with those very few words, I wish to support the motion.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order! I know that the hon. Members, earlier in the year, have enjoyed a great deal of cross country debating. I know that we are all coming back early next year to do more cross country debating and you will be allowed do so. From now, ignore what you see on the display board, the clock, and simply answer the question posed by the hon. Acting Leader of Government Business in the House which is, “Is it your wish that these three Standing Orders should be suspended so that you may conclude business?”  If you look at the Order Paper, there is a lot that requires to be done. Therefore, I shall call on those who will undertake to support or to oppose the motion briefly and to the point.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, thank you for according me this opportunity to respond to the farewell message from the Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Sir, I do support the motion and I am itching to sit on the other side of the House …

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: … where the Acting Leader of the Government Business in the House is sitting.

Laughter

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, in supporting the motion, I would like to urge this Government not to abrogate their responsibility. The Government had assured the people in the flood affected areas that they would provide the requite relief food. Unfortunately, the outgoing Government has abrogated this responsibility by failing to provide for the people. The people of Southern Province in particular, are crying loud for the requisite support. We should not just be politicking but provide. It was stated in his report.

Mr Speaker, I would like to urge the Government to ensure that within the next forty-five days when they still have power, they should support the people of Southern Province by providing them with relief food.

Sir, finally, when we come into power within the next forty-five days, we shall not be as irresponsible as the MMD Government by failing to provide for the people of Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I rise to support the motion on the Floor and I will be very brief. In supporting the motion, I want to remind my brothers and sisters on your right that as we go for elections, let us remember that the late President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa left a legacy of not dipping into public coffers for the sake of elections.

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, as we go to the elections, remember that a lot of Zambians are in poverty and need education and medical care. It would be irresponsible for anybody to dip into Government coffers for the sake of having the elections go in favour of the ruling MMD.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Sir, as we go, we expect that, for hon. Members of Parliament to development their constituencies, they need the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). It is almost three quarters of the year and the K400 million allocated to constituencies has not been released. I am, therefore, appealing to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to quickly release the Constituency Development Fund so that as we go in our constituencies, we will be focused and help our people with programmes that are intended from the Constituency Development Fund. This is not a time to fight. This is a time to elect a Government that will represent the views of the people.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Sir, there should be no time to cheat or fight the people of Zambia as we go to the elections. The people of Zambia already know who they are going to vote for. We do not want to see Government vehicles at MMD rallies and we do not want anybody to use Government resources for the purpose of campaigning.

Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Order! The word “cheat” is unparliamentary and should not be used in the House.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Sichilima): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to debate the motion. I will be very brief. Unlike my ba pongoshi, Hon. Matongo, whose words I take as my own, I will use very simple terms.

Mr Speaker, I would like to join others in conveying my condolences to the First Family and the people of Zambia for the loss of our beloved president, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC. As you are aware, last term when he picked me up from Ndola, he put it on record that he was appointing a very hardworking hon. Member of Parliament …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: …by the name of Hon. Sichilima.

Laughter

Hon. Member: Gaston.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I am indebted to him.

Most of what I wanted to say has already been said. However, I would like to put it on record that I commend the Media for a job well done from the time that our president was taken ill, up to the time that we put him to rest. On this point, I would like to add that when the Budget comes, we should support the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting Services. I am saying this because I have served in that ministry before and I have seen the need to support it. I have also seen how much our men and women can do in regard to information.

Mr Speaker, having said that, I would like to say that as much as we support the private sector, especially in the Media, we have seen how some private Media can be so destructive in terms of how they disseminate information.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima:  This is very dangerous in a united Christian nation such as Zambia. The bad publicity may be targeted at a person we want to hear about today, but the next day, it could be any one of us here because we are living a public life. I would like to urge my brothers and sisters running these private Media that as much as they want to publish what people want to hear, they must take into account that there is a lot of information that people want to be correctly informed about.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I would like to declare interest. I am a politician today and may not be one tomorrow. Therefore, I want to state that as united as Zambians are, in future, we should to listen to what people at the grassroots are saying. A lot of people on the street voiced out that it was not necessary to hold these elections. Others even accused the ruling Government of trying to change the Constitution. Now, suppose it was agreed that elections should not be held and, for some reason, the person voted for as preferred candidate for the MMD goes through unopposed, we could have saved a lot of money. We have seen many situations where hon. Members of Parliament and councillors have gone unopposed in by-elections.  What would be different about not holding these elections and moving forward as one country and saving all that money?

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, the current President of our next door neighbour, Botswana, who they respect so much, was not subjected to elections. The Prime Minister of the United Kingdom was not subjected to elections. What could have been different about us agreeing as one family and moving in that direction? This, in future, must be considered seriously.

Mr Speaker, I almost forgot to commend you for having produced disciplined hon. Members of Parliament. This, indeed, is a very difficult time. However, from what I can see around here, and from most of the debates we heard in the last Session, we are building this country. I think this is the way a country should move.

Mr Speaker, finally, I would like to join the Zambians who have commended this Government on the leadership of RB …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: …who has shown maturity. As hon. Members speak, it clearly indicates that we have a leader already in place and Zambians should not take chances …

Mr Speaker: Order! There shall be no campaigning in this House.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Leave that for the outside.

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I always cherish your guidance. As you are aware, Sir, I am the most senior Deputy Minister and I cherish your advice.

Mr Speaker, as the Leader of the House said, we are adjourning today. This is a motion I support strongly. I would like to urge my colleagues that as we go to these elections, we need to be mild.

Mr Speaker, I thank you as we go to vote for RB.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! Not that fast. Withdraw the last remark.
Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I withdraw the remark.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, it is a great privilege to stand and support the motion on the Floor.

Mr Speaker, we have had quite some time in this House, particularly, a very unique time in the history of our country in that during the sitting of the House, we lost the President. May his soul rest in peace and I wish sincere condolences to the bereaved family.

Mr Speaker, we are going out, not just to rest as hon. Members of Parliament, but most importantly, to re-look at the future of this country, which risks falling into the hands of someone who might undermine it. It calls on each one of us to introspect and look at the past and consider what is best for the future.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, we have only one country and this one country to protect. I am very convinced that each hon. Member of Parliament seated here is concerned about what tomorrow will bring to the people of our country. It will be a disaster for us to ignore the signs.

Mr Speaker, I would like to appeal to the Government, as we go out, that first of all, the election should not be an end in itself, but rather the people of this country. Whatever we do must redound to the beauty, glorification and development of our country and our people.

Consequently, I would like to echo the words of those who have spoken before me in saying to the hon. Members of the Cabinet that their responsibilities to run this country until after the elections must not be undermined at all. They must remember that their mandate continues until a new Cabinet is put in place. It is extremely important for the good of this country that we do not create a lacuna while the elections are going on. It is important for this country that those who have the power, and as Cabinet, you have the power to run this country until after the elections, do not abscond from that responsibility and must work towards ensuring that in the interim period, things run as smoothly as possible.

Mr Speaker, the issue of the prices of food is going to be very critical. The prices of food are rising and there is no stopping that reality. I am hoping that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning will consider this, not only as a challenge, but as a an occasion for this country to make a lot of money. He can do so by ensuing that as many of our peasant farmers as possible are allocated fertilisers in this period. It is very important that we have a surplus in this year because the prices of the commodity will be very high next year. This is a strategy we can use to ensure that our people reap as much as possible in the coming year. It is extremely critical that, if possible, the hon. Minister reviews the amount that has been allocated to the purchase of fertilisers in the country.

Mr Speaker, my colleagues have also talked about the CDF. It is quite saddening that we are almost reaching the end of the year and the K400 million is still not in the hands of the constituents – the people who want to use it for development. I am sure the hon. Minister realises that we are going towards the rain and if we have to use part of that money to clean up a few of the roads, it has to be released almost immediately.

Mr Speaker, there are those areas where people want to use part of that money in the co-operatives to buy fertilisers. The time to release the money is now. I am, therefore, sure that the hon. Minister will look at that.

Sir, we are going into a very challenging time - challenging in the sense that for the first time, our country will, midway through a Session, be looking for another President. I would, therefore, like to appeal to all of us to introspect as I sad earlier and look forward to choosing a leader who will not undermine our country, but ensure that what has been started continues and ensure that the future of this country is not taken under by anything or anyone.

I thank you, Sir.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I will be extremely brief because I support the motion. In so doing, I would like to add a little bit of fact to some of the generalities that have been stated by people from of this side of the House.

Sir, the fertiliser distribution system in this country has been developed to the point where it works out very well by the collaboration between the Government and the farmers’ associations in each area. The farmers’ associations identify the genuine small-scale farmers and also those that are capable, in principle, of at least of repaying.

Sir, this year that system has just been shut down. As soon as the election came in view, the farmers’ associations were told to get out of the way and it is very clear that the fertiliser distribution is now purely under political control. I would urge the Minister of Finance and National Planning and the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives that as they remain in their positions until the end of October they should bring back normality in this respect because the damage is not temporary. The damage will continue in the future.

Similarly, there is a perfectly transparent legal system for adjusting the price of fuels on the basis of oil prices, transport cost, taxation and so forth to arrive at a pump price every 15th of each month through the Energy Regulation Board that costs so much money. It is not right for this matter to become subject of political direction because that reminds one a little bit of the UNIP days and, perhaps, that is inappropriate.

I thank you, Sir. I support the motion.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, I wish to pass my condolences to the First Family and the people of Zambia. I am also carrying condolences from the Church of Christ in Zambia and the Church of Christ in the United States of America. The Church of Christ in the United States – Harding University - are the people who honoured Dr Mwanawasa with a doctorate.

Sir, when His Excellency the President, Dr levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC died, I asked them that there are so many Presidents in Africa and the world over, how come they chose President Mwanawasa to be honoured with a doctorate? Their answer was as follows.

The relationship between the Zambian Government and the Harding University in the United States comes from a long way - as far back as when Mr Kebby Musokotwane was Prime Minister.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, they said that they have a soft spot for Zambia because Zambians are loving and warm people. By doing what they did in honouring Dr Mwanawasa with a doctorate they marketed Zambia to other nations as well. As a result, they wanted to cement the relationship between Harding University and Zambia because Harding University is developing a branch at Namianga. Therefore, they wanted that recognised at the highest level.

Sir, they also said that for more than fifteen years now, every year in July, this university sends more than 300 medical personnel who give free services to Zambians for about 14 to 21 days. Because of that, they felt that President Mwanawasa deserved to be honoured by the university.

Mr Speaker, I hope this relationship Harding University is talking about will continue with the new Government. Of course, I know that it is not this Government because another Government is coming…

Laughter

Mrs Musokotwane:…and they want to see this relationship continue as they are developing a university in Zambia because they will need the Government to help them succeed and work through the University of Zambia so that the university is developed as quickly as possible to benefit the people of Zambia and the people from other parts of the world that are going to come to this university.

Mr Speaker, I was just a bearer of the massage from the United States of America.

I thank you, Sir.

The Deputy Minister for Southern Province (Mr Munkombwe): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to debate on this motion.

Sir, I rise to join my colleagues who have welcomed this motion on the Floor. However, I want to say that we are going out to build the country through an election.

Mr Mbewe: Hear, hear!

Mr Munkombwe: Sir, we must offer proper leadership to the political situation that prevails in this country. Running a Government or running a party is mechanical. If you know that the MMD is well managed and you compare yourself to MMD, you must also calculate where else the MMD is present and where else your party is present. If you cannot manage your party by harassing your hon. Members of Parliament and if you cannot manage your party by not knowing that you do not exist in particular areas…

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! Those insinuations are clearly heard and this House will avoid them. Do you support or do not support the motion?

Laughter

Mr Speaker: You may continue.

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, I thank you and I am grateful for your guidance. Sir, you are a distinguished person and as you know, I am not known for flattering people. Therefore, when I say so, I am saying so generously and genuinely.

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: Mr Speaker, when you run a farm, you have to be mechanical because you know that when you plant something, you know what you will harvest. Why do you claim that this Government will not be there when you only exist in a particular area?

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: What fact and reason would that be?

Laughter

Mr Munkombwe: When you cannot manage your hon. Members of Parliament and yet you want to come to Parliament, what reason is that?

Mr Speaker, I would like to support the motion and I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister and Acting Leader of Government Business in the House may wind up his motion.

Laughter

Hon. Member: Ama veteran aya!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, I want to salute all Members of Parliament who have contributed to this motion and I want to really thank them very much.

Also, we do appreciate, as a Government, messages of appreciation and condolences over the death of our President. For the first time in this country, during that sorrowful period, we saw an absence of narrow and palatial politics.

Laughter

Mr Mpombo: The country stood as one and I think that is the spirit we should promote.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, you will also notice that in all international journals, be it Time Magazine, Newsweek and The Day Telegraph, they gave a very lengthy obituary on the death of the President all over the world. Therefore, this is an indication that our President was held in very high esteem. Zambians are a great people. Zambia is a slice of heaven indeed.

Laughter

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Sir, as regards the questions that have been raised about good governance, whether it is going to continue or not, I want to assure this House that MMD, as a Government, is founded on the bedrock of good governance.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Therefore, we will try to do everything possible to ensure that all operations of Government remain on track and within the law. We will not do anything that may discombobulate the …

Laughter

Mr Mpombo: … rule of law in the country. Indeed, we will try to do everything possible.

Mr Speaker, before I conclude I want to assure the Members of Parliament that under the leadership of the Acting President, Rupiah Banda, we will continue to maintain the formidable legacy that the President has left.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: We will continue operating at full throttle in the economic fields.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: We will ensure that we continue to support an enabling economic environment.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: We will continue to give security and assurance that Zambia is a country that has got good policies that will support international investment. We will continue to work hard to ensure that citizens’ economic empowerment is achieved.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Unless you empower your citizens economically, you are not heading anywhere. Therefore, we will continue to work on these ideals which our late President founded.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, we will continue to support the tourism industry.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: The improvement of the tourism industry will continue to be supported because this is one area where the Government feels it could continue to develop the country. The fight against corruption will continue and unfettered. The Road infrastructure development will continue while foreign direct investment will continue to be encouraged in this country in order to move forward. For this reason, I want to say that the people of Zambia have no cause to be afraid because the reigns of power are in very capable and responsible hands.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mpombo: Mr Speaker, with regard to elections, an issue was raised as to why we are having ballot papers printed in South Africa. In this country we have pervasive morbid fears. There is a lot of unnecessary unhealthy fear and suspicion …

Hon. Opposition Member: Rigging!

Mr Mpombo: … to the extent that if I invite Hon. Sakwiba Sikota to come to my office, his first reaction will be, “Will the tea be safe or am I going to be poisoned?” There are these issues that have created this problem. As a country, we must trust each other.

Interruptions

Mr Mpombo: The Government Printing Department has got the facility to do that but because of the suspicion and the fact that people may try to undermine the credibility of the process, the Government made the decision to have the ballot papers printed in South Africa. Otherwise, we have the capacity to do it here.

In conclusion, Mr Speaker, questions have been raised regarding the holding of the forthcoming Presidential By-election. We are a Government of laws and our position is that we will continue to follow the Constitution. The Constitution will remain to be the moral compass of this Government and, therefore, we have opted to go for elections as laid down in the Constitution. The Government is not trying to get into any pact, whatsoever, to frustrate the holding of the Presidential By-election.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to.

_______{mospagebreak}

BILLS

SECOND READING

THE PETROLEUM (EXPLORATION AND PRODUCTION) BILL, 2008

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Bill be now read a second time.

Sir, I am grateful for giving me the opportunity to open debate on the Petroleum (Exploration and Production) Bill 2008. I will briefly explain the background to the rationale for the Bill. In doing so, I will highlight new features which do not appear in the Petroleum (Exploration and Production) Act, 1985, and stress the importance of setting up new institutions and streamlining existing ones in order to enhance benefits that should accrue to local communities where oil and gas extraction works will take place, and the entire country.

Mr Speaker, I wish to begin by paying tribute to our departed President of the Republic of Zambia, His Excellency Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC, for initiating the exploration work leading to the preparation of the Bill we are debating in this august House, and for his unflinching supporting to the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development in the exploration for oil and gas in our country.

This support greatly encouraged my ministry to overcome various constraints in the exercise.

Sir, the exploration work leading up to the Petroleum (Exploration and Production) Bill, 2008, under discussion started in 2004 when our late Republican President directed that a technical team be established to carry out investigations to evaluate the possibility of finding oil and gas in the North-Western Province in the first instance.

In 2005 and 2006, Government experts explored the districts of Kabompo, Zambezi and Chavuma in the province and took soil samples for further analysis in Germany. The results showed positive indications for the presence of oil and gas in certain areas of the districts.

Encouraged by these results, the President appointed a Petroleum Committee, as provided for under the Petroleum (Exploration and Production) Act, 1985, Cap 440 of the Laws of Zambia. The Committee has the mandate to formulate policies and to monitor and supervise petroleum operations in the country.

Subsequently, the Petroleum Committee demarcated into blocks the highly promising areas and prepared documents for inviting bids for exploration companies to carry out detailed works to confirm the presence of commercial deposits and grades of oil and gas. The bidding process was only suspended after realising that the 1985 Act was inadequate in environmental protection and benefits to the nation from the Petroleum resource. A decision was taken to repeal and replace this Act. Sir, this is the background to the Bill under discussion.

Mr Speaker, our experience with the mining industry has highlighted the need for a legal framework that should guarantee enhanced benefits to the Zambian people and promote sustained environmentally-based economic development. These are the principles that have guided us in the formulation of the Bill before the House.

Accordingly, the Bill has made the following provisions:

(i) Separation of petroleum exploration from petroleum development and production.

While the 1985 Act provides for a single licence which incorporates these two phrases, the Bill provides for two licences, one for petroleum exploration and the other for petroleum development and production. This provision will put Government in a strategic position to impose appropriate licence conditions aimed at serving the best interests of the nation at both the exploration and development stages.

(ii) Petroleum Trust Fund

The 1985 Act does not have such a provision, which in the Bill is intended to benefit local communities in the areas where petroleum operations will be conducted. Details pertaining to this Fund will be provided in a Statutory Instrument.

(iii) Safety, Health and Environmental Protection

Articles 67 to 72 of the Bill provide for environmental impact studies and formulation of appropriate mitigation measures before commencement of petroleum operations. This is in contrast with Section 32 of the current Act which appeals to a licence holder to abide by general conservation principles after petroleum operation have commenced. The introduction of comprehensive provisions in the Bill, for occupational health and safety and for environmental protection, is intended to minimise petroleum pollution of air, water and land so that human health, livelihood and environment can be safeguarded.

(iv) Compliance monitoring for effective supervision of the industry

The 1985 Act does not have such provision although a Statutory Instrument was issued in 2003 to provide for inspections. Articles 95 and 97 of the Bill are in an elaborate manner for compliance, inspections for the areas where petroleum operations have to be conducted.

(v)  Reporting a commercial discovery

The 1985 Act in section 26 mentions the reporting of a commercial discovery but not in detail. In contrast, Article 25 of the Bill requires that a commercial discovery of petroleum be reported to the Minister. Article 26 gives details of the requirements. The immediate reporting of a commercial discovery is very important because it enables the Government to prepare for granting of petroleum development and production licence, more so that Zambia is in a hurry to develop the resource.

(vi) National Petroleum Company

The 1985 Act has no provision for a vehicle for Government participation in petroleum business. Article 101 of the Bill provides for establishment of the National Petroleum Company in order to maximise benefits to the nation. This provision is in conformity with international practice in all oil and gas producing countries.

Mr Speaker, in conclusion, let me just say something about the way forward. The Geological Survey Department has extended the petroleum exploration activities from North-Western Province to Western Province and Eastern Province of Zambia. These areas have been demarcated into blocks in readiness for the bidding process when the Bill is enacted.

We have plans to assess the petroleum potential in the other parts of the country. We have already collected samples from Northern, Luapula and Southern provinces and these have been sent to Germany for analysis and the results are expected any time.

Mr Speaker, I appeal to hon. Members of the House to support the Bill so that detailed exploration work for oil and gas in country can begin in earnest.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1045 hours until 1100 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, your committee considered various submissions on the Petroleum (Exploration and Production) Bill, 2008, whose objects have been highlighted by the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.

Mr Speaker, your committee support the Bill. In so doing, they commend the Government for bringing to the House this important piece of legislation. It is your committee’s wish that this law will facilitate investment in petroleum exploration and development. In supporting the Bill, your committee also wish to make the following observations and recommendations.

Sir, your committee observe that this Bill intends to split the licensing of exploration activities from that of development and production, like the hon. Minister earlier stated. Your committee appreciate the intention. However, they are aware that the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) is also empowered, through the Energy Regulation Act, to issue production licences for energy. They are also reliably informed that petroleum development is a separate activity from production and, as such, the two may not possibly be combined. Your committee are of the view that entrusting the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development with the issuance of production licences while the same is being administered by the Energy Regulation Board would be irregular.

In addition, the Bill will potentially lead to over-regulation of the industry which is already quite heavily regulated, thus making Zambia an unfriendly investment destination. In view of this, your committee urge the Government to ensure that these two pieces of legislation are harmonised. This should be done by having provisions in the law which will ensure that activities are under the preserve of the Energy Regulation Board. Technically, this means that this Bill will only cover exploration and development and will leave out all matters to do with production of petroleum.

Mr speaker, your committee also note that the Bill contains provision on environmental protection which is also provided for in the Environmental Protection and Pollution control Act, Cap 204 of the laws of the land and yet the Bill that is before you makes no reference to that piece of legislation. Your committee further observe that the Minister, in carrying out certain activities, will be required to consult with the Ministers responsible for environment and for health respectively.

Your committee object to this arrangement and instead recommend that the Bill before you should be amended and make provisions that will compel the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development to consult the provisions of relevant pieces of legislation and not necessarily offices, namely, the office of Minister responsible for Environment and the office of Minister responsible for Health. Further, reference should be made to relevant pieces of legislation wherever the Bill covers issues of health and environment respectively.

Mr Speaker, your committee observe that Clause 49(1) gives the Minister power to suspend and cancel a licence. Your committee recommend that the Petroleum Committee should approve the suspension or cancellation of a licence, rather than the Minister alone. This will be in line with the desire to have major decisions on licences made by the committee rather than an individual in the name of the Minister.

Lastly, Mr Speaker, your committee observe that while the Bill has defined good oilfield practices, it has not, on the other hand, given the standards that would be applicable in petroleum operations in Zambia. Your committee, therefore, recommend that Government comes up with these standards as quickly as possible. This will make it easier to monitor operations of investors, who if left without check are capable of abusing our resources without compensation for environmental degradation.

I wish, Sir, to conclude by thanking all the witnesses that appeared before your committee for their valuable input to the findings of your committee. I also wish to thank you, Mr Speaker, for affording your committee an opportunity to consider this Bill. May, I also thank the office of the Clerk and her staff for their unending support. More, also, let me present for your commendation, Hon. Mr Speaker, members of your committee for their dedication to duty.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, allow me to support the Bill on the Floor of this House and very briefly say that should the country discover oil, it must be ensured that the local communities where this oil is discovered benefit. In that respect, I wish to agree with the people that drafted this Bill in establishing the Petroleum Trust Fund that the people who stay in those areas, where these resources are found must always benefit from the mining of oil in those areas so that they are not seen to be used by profiteering companies. It has happened in this country where the people only see companies prospering and they remain very poor. It is very evident on the Copperbelt. The Lamba people of the Copperbelt remained poor despite giving the land for great mining activities in our country. That is injustice and it must not be repeated. Therefore, this Bill is very positive in this aspect.

Secondly, Mr Speaker, the establishment of the National Petroleum Company is another positive aspect of this Bill. This will ensure that the Zambians have a share in these oil companies through this company. We cannot benefit through peripheral benefits like taxes which are not reliable. We want to have shares in the profits that these companies make. The arrangement that we have, for example, in mining companies also are positive through the ZCCM Investment Holding, as we will always have shares in these mining companies. The real meat is in the profit, not necessarily in the taxes. So, it is very positive that if we discover oil in this country, the Zambian people, through the National Petroleum Company will have shares in these companies. It is very clear in other countries where they have oil. For example, in the Equatorial Guinea, where they have discovered oil, the economy is growing at an alarming rate, but the people are becoming poorer. We do not want an economy that grows for a few companies. So, an economy with a high Gross Domestic Product (GDP) year in year out, which is not benefiting people is a very fake economy. We do not want to create a fake economy that disadvantages the majority of our people in our country. Therefore, I wish to commend the establishment of this company if oil is discovered.

Mr Speaker, the other issue is Article 47, concerning the compulsory acquisition of land where oil is discovered. We need to have a framework to compensate these local people adequately. It is happening in other areas where people are just pushed around to sweep the streets for big companies to make their money. Our people will not be used as brooms anymore. They will not be used to clean the streets for a few people to enjoy the money in the foreign capitals where they live. Therefore, if we discover petroleum resources in our country, the local people who will be displaced must be adequately compensated. If our laws are very weak in this respect, we need to strengthen them because we want adequate compensation for the local people. Otherwise, we will have growth that has no development and that does not mean anything to the local people.

Finally, Mr Speaker, I want to urge the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development not to despair, but to continue promoting exploration. We might be a very poor country, and yet God has blessed us with abundant resources underground. There are many examples in Europe where countries like Norway took many years to look for resources and after a lot of drilling, they finally hit the target. We must continue to co-operate with other countries like Namibia and Angola which, I know, are involved in high level exploration. I think we can also exchange notes and have experience in this area since we are just beginning.

Finally, I want to wish this country an early discovery of petroleum products - oil - that, if God has put underground, we may discover in our generation and in our own time, to the benefit of our people. So, all the best to the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development so that you endeavour to promote exploration and give the necessary incentives to the people that risk their money in exploration.

Thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, I also wish to throw my weight behind the introduction of this Petroleum (Exploration and Production) Bill, 2008. The benefits encouraging the exploration and, consequently, mining operations cannot be over emphasised. I just want to commend the Government, especially on one aspect where this time around, unlike in the area of prospecting in these other minerals, they have thought that they should, at least, reserve certain blocks where the Government should also endeavour to do some prospecting and exploration activities and, thereafter, engage in mining operations. That is a very commendable move.

Mr Speaker, I just thought I should mention one thing and this is in the area of allocating large tracts of portions to these investors. This is because we have enough lessons, especially in the area of mineral explorations, where some of the investors have held this country to ransom by obtaining those large tracts of land and then they cannot get on to the sites to do the actual prospecting activities.

There are a number of people that would want to venture into mining operations but cannot because the portions of land with deposits of natural resources belong to people who are failing to carry out exploration. Sadly, the Government does not even have legal means by which they can move in to compel those investors to, at least, get started or repossess those areas so that they are given to more serious investors.

 I just want to remind the hon. Minister that as we deliberate on this Bill, there is need to deeply think about ensuring that should such unfortunate situations arise, measures are put in place to actually repossess these pieces of land from investors that fail to carry out exploration operations and give them to more serious developers. We do not want to rush into this Bill if the ministry has not put in place those measures. I say so because I realise, for instance, that in Mwense where I come from, the area is endowed with very rich mineral resources, in particular copper with a higher grade than that obtained in North-Western Province. However, we cannot have people to mine it because some people have ransomed the nation by holding onto the land that they are failing to explore for minerals and we cannot do anything and yet the place is rich in natural resources, but looks very poor.

Therefore, I just want to ask the hon. Minister to, at least, go through the whole Bill and see whether, somewhere, measures have been put in place for us to control things.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving the chance to wind up debate on this Bill. I want to begin by thanking your committee and their Chairperson for a thorough scrutiny of the Bill. Very useful suggestions have been made, most of which have been incorporated in the amendments which we shall move. For instance, they include restrictions on the application of the Bill to activities below the well head, that is, for just to concentrate on exploration and production. We have also amended provisions that empower the hon. Minister to consult offices and not the law. So, that has been taken care of.

I also want to thank the hon. Member for Bweengwa for what he has said. Certainly, communities where petroleum exploration operations will be taking place will be the first ones to benefit because they are the primary owners of the resource and, therefore, deserve to benefit before anybody else.

 The hon. Member for Mwense does not have to worry about people that may not be able to explore or use the areas that they will be given during the exploration stage because there are provisions for abandonment or relinquishing of the areas before renewals are taken care of.

Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the whole House for the overwhelming support of the Bill.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Question put and agreed to and the Bill read a second time.

Committed to a committee of the Whole House.

Committee on Friday, 12th September, 2008.

____________ {mospagebreak}

BILLS

HOUSE IN COMMITTEE

[THE CHAIRPERSON OF COMMITTEES in the Chair]

THE PETROLEUM (EXPLORATION AND PRODUCTION) BILL, 2008

Clause 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 ─ (Interpretation)

The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Dr Mwansa): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2:

(a) on page 10:

(i) in line 12, by the deletion of the words “but does not include a company”;

(ii) after line 15, by the insertion immediately after the definition of “crude oil” of the following new definition: “development” in relation to petroleum operations means the process of recovering petroleum from a production well.

(b) on page 11:

(i) before line 1, by the insertion before the definition of “environmental commitment plan” of the following definition: “environment” has the meaning assigned to it in the Environmental Protection and Pollution Control Act;

(ii) in line 11 to 14, by the deletion of the definition of “good oilfield practices” and the substitution therefor of the following new definition: “good oilfield practices” means those practices related to petroleum operations that are generally accepted by the international petroleum industry as good, safe, environmentally friendly, economic and efficient in exploring for and producing petroleum;

(iii) in lines 34 to 36, by the deletion of the definition of “petroleum operations” and the substitution therefor of the following new definition: “petroleum operations” means the operations related to the exploration, development, extraction, and production of petroleum.

(c) on page 12:

(i) in line 3, by the deletion of the definition of “processing”;

(ii) after line 5, by the insertion immediately after the definition of “prescribed” of the following new definitions:
“production” in relation to petroleum operations means the recovery of petroleum from its natural insitu source; and
“production well” means the infrastructure required for the recovery of petroleum from the natural resource up to the well head;.

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Madam Chairperson, I agree in part with the proposal by the hon. Minister to the amendment in Clause 2, on page 10, in line 12. However, I object to the amendment proposed in line number 15 and I have to state that my committee regret that they did not have time to look at the amendments so as to harmonise them with the amendments that were agreed upon by the hon. Minister and his representative on the committee.

With the agreement of the hon. Minister, the second amendment on page 10, after line 15, ought, instead, to read as follows:

“in relation to petroleum operations” means the mapping, siting, construction, drilling, testing and commissioning of production wells.

That ought to be the definition for “development” and not the one that is being proposed, which I quote:

“means the process of recovering petroleum from a production well.”

The moment a production well is mentioned, it means that infrastructure has already been laid or developed. One cannot say “development” is recovering petroleum from an infrastructure that has already been laid because development itself connotes setting up infrastructure. I would like to request the hon. Minister to concede to that so that we have a proper definition.

I thank you, Madam.

Madam Chairperson: Before I call for any further debate, these amendments were here yesterday, so the Chair pleads that all hon. Members are supposed to be alert to what is being distributed in the House. These amendments could have been done earlier. It is very clumsy for us to start re-phrasing the amendments in here. The procedure is that there should be notice before we come to this point, these amendments were distributed yesterday.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, thank you for your guidance. What is important is to ensure that the definition excludes processing because the Bill is about exploration, production and development and not processing. Therefore, we think that the definition as it is, is adequate and for the fact that we were not able to circulate amendments, we cannot change anything for now.

I thank you, Madam.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, I would like to state that, indeed, these amendments were circulated yesterday, but as you are aware, notice of amendment ought to be presented to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly not later than 1400 hours the day before the date when we ought to debate them. However, these amendments were circulated on the Floor of the House, and I did attempt as Chair of the committee, to have these amendments through the clerk of my committee. Unfortunately, we were told that it was too late. Therefore, I do not think we should proceed only for expediency’s sake and end up with a law that would be difficult to interpret, that is my point. We heard from the submission of the hon. Minister that the facts that were laid in making submissions should not be used to end up with a law that is flawed. That is my stand point.

The Minister of Justice (Mr Kunda): Madam Chairperson, we …

Mr Lubinda: Ushusha vichani, nikuuzani, ati ni Boma, I am right!

Mr Kunda: … yes, we will concede to this amendment.

I thank you, Madam.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 and 8 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 9 – ( Bids Cap 323)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 9, on page 15:

(a)  in line 35 by the insertion of the words ‘with the best proposed programme’ after the words ‘the bidder’; and
 
(b) in lines 37 to 39 by the deletion of sub-clause (8)

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 9, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 10, 11 and 12 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 13 – (Grant of Petroleum exploration Licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in clause 13, on page 17:
  (a)  in line 28 by the of the words ‘and place’ after the word ‘description’;

(b) in line 38 by the deletion of the words ‘or recover’ after the words ‘explore for’; and

(c) in line 39 by the deletion of the words ‘or production area’.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 13, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20 and 21 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 22 – (Renewal of Petroleum Exploration Licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 22, on page 23, in line 6 by the insertion of the words ‘of the’ after the word ‘renewal’.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 22, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 23 and 24 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 25 – (Discovery of petroleum to be notified)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 25, on page 23:

(a) in line 3 by the insertion of the figure “(1)” between the number “25” and the word “Where”;

(b) after line 8 by the insertion of the following sub-section:
(2) Any person who contravenes the provisions of subsection (1) commits an offence and is liable, upon conviction -
(a) in the case of an individual, to a fine not exceeding five hundred thousand penalty units or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding ten years, or to both; or 
(b) in the case of a body corporate, to a fine not exceeding one million penalty units.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 25, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 26 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 27 – (Commercial discovery)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 27, on page 26:

(a) in lines 25 to 27 by the deletion of sub-clause (3); and
(b) in line 28 by the renumbering of sub-clause (4) as sub-clause (3).

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 27, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33 and 34 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 35 – (Contents of petroleum development and production licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 35, on page 32, in lines 29 by the insertion of the words “development and” before the word “production”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 35, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 36 – (Rights conferred by petroleum development and production licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 36, on page 33:

(a) in line 11 by the insertion of the word “and” after the semi-colon;
(b) in line 12 to 13 by the deletion of paragraph (b);
(c) in line 14 by the renumbering of paragraph (c) as (b); and
(d) in line 15 by the insertion of the words “development and” before the word “production”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 36, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 37 – (Duration and renewal of petroleum development and production licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 37, on page 34:

(a) in line 3 by the deletion of the words “and processing”;
(b) inline 13 by the deletion of the words “or processing”; and
(c) in line 33 by the deletion of the words “and processing”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 37, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 38 – (Unit of development)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 38:

(a) on page 36 in line 23 and 37 by the insertion of the words “development and” before the words “production area”; and
(b) on page 37, in lines 2 and 22 by the insertion of the words “development and” before the words “production area”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 38, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 39 – (Directions as to recovery of petroleum)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 39, on page 37, from line 23 to page 38 in line 4 by the deletion of clause 39.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 39, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 40 and 41 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 42 – (Rights under licence to be exercised reasonably)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 42, on page 40, in line 20 by the insertion of the word “petroleum” before the word “operations”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 42, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 43, 44, 45, 46, 47 and 48 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 49 – (Minister’s Power to suspend or cancel licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 49, on page 44, in line 2 by the insertion of the word “with the approval of the Committee” after the word “may”.

Mr Lubinda: Madam Chairperson, the amendment in Clause 49 was recommended by your committee and agreed to by the hon. Minister, but I suppose it is not the committee, but ‘technical committee’ bearing in mind that we are referring to two committees here. One is the technical committee and the other is committee. The one that ought to have the power to recommend the cancellation of a licence is the technical committee and not the committee.

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, the committee we are talking about here is the Petroleum Committee which has the mandate to advise the minister to cancel or approve a licence and not the technical committee.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 49, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 55 – (Work practices for holder of licences)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 55,

(a)  on page 47, in lines 32  and 34 by the insertion of the words “development and” before the word “production”; and

(b) on page 48, in lines 5, 7, 13 and 33 by the insertion of the words “development and” before the word “production”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 55, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.
 
CLAUSE 56 – (Wasteful production and processing practices)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 56, on page 49, in lines 3, 9, and 14 by the deletion of the words  “or processing” after the word “production”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 56, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 57 – (Maintenance etc., of property)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 57, on page 49, in lines 21, 23, 26 and 34 by the insertion of the words  “development and” before the word “production”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 57, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 58 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 59 – (Removal of Property, etc., by holder)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 59, on page 49, in lines 32 to 33 by the deletion of the words  “with the consent of the” and substitution therefor of the word “may allow”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 59 as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65 and 66 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 67 – (Environment and Human Health to be considered when granting exploration or development and production licenses)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 67, on page 56, in lines 15 to 18 by the deletion of the words  “in consultation with the Minister responsible for environment, cause such environmental impact studies and other studies to be carried out as the Minister considers necessary to enable such a decision to be made” and the substitution therefor of the words “require the applicant to submit the results of any environmental impact studies conducted in accordance with or as required by the Environmental Protection and Pollution Control Act to enable such a decision to be made”.

Mr Lubinda:  Madam Chairperson, the proposal by the hon. Minister is to ensure that there is no consultation with an office, but the law. I wonder whether he would also like to move a similar amendment at Clause 68 (1) 2b which is making reference to an office and not a piece of legislation so that we harmonise the law. My proposal, therefore, would be that the words at Clause 67 are also used at Clause 68 (1), 2b save for reference to the relevant piece of legislation.

Dr Mwansa: We appreciate that argument although we cannot move an amendment now because the amendment he is proposing has not been considered. Further, there is no particular institution that we can consult other than the hon. Minister.

Question that Clause 67

Clause 67 as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 68 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 69 – (Direction to comply with conditions of licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 69, on page 57, in line 15, by the insertion of the words “in accordance with Environmental Protection and Pollution Control Act” after the word “environment”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 69, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75 76, 77, 78, 79 80, 81 and 82 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 83 – (Annual fee in respect of licence)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 83, on page 63, in lines 18 to 19, by the deletion of paragraph (d) and the substitution therefor of the following paragraph:

 (d) providing advice to, and information required by, the Minister.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 83, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 84, 85, 86, 87, and 88 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 89 – (Function of committee)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 89, on page 65, in lines 29 to 30, by the deletion of paragraph (f) and the substitution therefor of the following paragraph:

 (f) providing advice to, and information required by, the Minister.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 89, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 90, 91 and 92 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 93 – (Function of Petroleum Technical Committee)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 93, on page 69, in lines 19 to 20, by the deletion of the words “and production” after the words “petroleum exploration” and the substitution therefor of the words “licences and petroleum development and production licences”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 93, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 94 – (Disclosure of interest)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 94, on page 69, in lines 38, by the deletion of the words “paragraph” and the substitution therefor of the word “section”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 94, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101 and 102 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 103 – (Offences and Penalties)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 103, on page 73, from line 31 to page 74, in line 3 by the deletion of sub-clause (1) and the substitution therefor of the following new sub-clause:-

(1) Any person who-

(a) in any application under this Act; or

(b) in purported compliance with a requirement under this Act to furnish any information;
furnishes any information or makes any statement that is false or misleading in a material particular commits an offence.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 103, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 104 and 105 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 106 – (Regulations)

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 106, on page 75, in lines 22 to 27 by the deletion of paragraph (h) and the substitution therefor of the following new paragraph:

(h) the removal of structures, machinery, equipment and other property brought into Zambia, in connection with the exploration for or the development and production of petroleum, from land that ceases to be subject to a petroleum exploration licence or a petroleum development and production licence;

On page 76, in lines 3 to 4 by the deletion of the words “or conveyance of” and the comma before the word “petroleum” and the substitution therefor of the word “of”.

After line 15, by the insertion immediately after paragraph (u) of the following new paragraph:

(v) the participation of Zambians in the petroleum industry; and in line 17 by the renumbering of paragraph (v) as paragraph (w).

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 106, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 107 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedule ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSES 40 TO 107

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clauses 40 to 107, from page 38 to page 76 by the renumbering of clauses 40 to 107 as clauses 39 to 106 respectively.

Amendment agreed to. Clauses amended accordingly.

Clauses as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

LONG TITLE

Dr Mwansa: Madam Chairperson, I beg an amendment in the Long Title, on page 9 by the deletion of the word “Development” in brackets and the substitution therefor of the word “Production”.

Amendment agreed to. Long Title amended accordingly.

Long Title as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

THE ANTI-HUMAN TRAFFICKING BILL, 2008

Clauses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47 and 48 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 49 ─ (Attachment of property)

The Minister of Home Affairs (Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 49, page 28, in line 40 by the insertion of the words “trafficking or” after the word “human”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 49, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55 and 56 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 57 ─ (Protection of insolvency)

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 57, on page, 35, in line 24 by the deletion of the words “in so far” after the words “disposal except” and the substitution therefor of the word “insofar”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 57, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 89, 90, 91, 92, 93, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98, 99, 100, 101, 102, 103, 104, 105, 106, 107, 108, 109 and 110 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

THE ZAMBIA POLICE (Amendment) BILL, 2008

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 3 – (Repeal and replacement of section 57G)

Lieutenant-General Shikapwasha: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 3, on page 3

(a) after line 15 by the insertion immediately under paragraph (c) of the following new subparagraph:
(i) the Permanent Secretary to the ministry responsible for home affair; and

(b) in lines 16, 18 and 20 by the renumbering of subparagraph (i) and (iii) as subparagraphs (ii) (iii) and (iv) respectively.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 3, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 4 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

THE LOCAL COURTS (Amendment) BILL, 2008

Clauses 1, 2 and 3 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE JUDICIAL CODE OF CONDUCT (Amendment) BILL, 2008

Clauses 1 and 2 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

THE ACCOUNTANTS BILL, 2008

Clauses 1 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 2 – (Interpretation)

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Mr Magande): Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 2, on page 7, in line 6 by the deletion of the word “skilled” and the substitution therefor of the word “qualified”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 2, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14 and 15 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

NEW CLAUSE 16 – (Membership and fees)

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 16, on page 22, in lines 16 to 18 by the deletion of Clause 16 and the substitution therefor of the following new clause:

Membership 16 (1) The Institute may charge such fees for its membership as 
and client may be prescribed and different fees may be prescribed for different classes of membership.
fees
(2) A member shall charge such client services fees as may be determined by the institute.

Question put and agreed to.

New Clause 16 accordingly ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clause 17 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 18 – (Holding out)

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 18, on page 23:

(a) in line 25

by the deletion of the letter “A” after the word “Member”; and

(b) in line 26

by the insertion after the words “public tax advisor” of a comma and the words “receiver”, “liquidator”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 18, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 19 – (Practising certificate and non-audit practising certificate)

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 19, on page 24, inline 18 by the insertion after the word “has” of the words “passed the competence practice examination set by the Institute and has”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 19, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 20, 21 and 22 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 23 (5) – (Cancellation of practising and non-audit practising certificate)

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 23, on page 25, in lines 34 to 36 by the deletion of sub-clause (5).

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Question that Clause 23 (5) be deleted agreed to.

Clause 23 (5) accordingly deleted.

Clauses 24, 25, 26 and 27 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

CLAUSE 28 – (Offences relating to registration, etc)

Mr Magande: Madam Chairperson, I beg to move an amendment in Clause 28, on page 28, in line 1 by the insertion after the word “report” of a comma and the words “financial statement submitted for tax purposes”.

Amendment agreed to. Clause amended accordingly.

Clause 28, as amended, ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Clauses 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64, 65, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77, 78, 79, 80, 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 87 and 89 ordered to stand part of the Bill.

First and Second schedules ordered to stand part of the Bill.

Title agreed to.

Hon Members: Hear, hear!

____________

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bill was reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendment:

The Petroleum (Exploration and Production) Bill, 2008.

Report stage today.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1256 hours until 1430 hours.

HOUSE RESUMED

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

The following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee without amendment:

The Local Courts (Amendment) Bill, 2008

The Judicial (Code of Conduct) (Amendment) Bill, 2008

Third Readings today.

The Following Bills were reported to the House as having passed through Committee with amendment:

The Anti-Human Trafficking Bill, 2008

The Zambia Police (Amendment) Bill, 2008

The Accountants Bill, 2008

Report Stages today.

REPORT STAGE

The Petroleum (Exploration and Production) Bill, 2008

Anti-Human Trafficking Bill, 2008

The Zambia Police (Amendment) Bill, 2008

The Accountants Bill, 2008

The Small Claims Court (Amendment) Bill, 2008

Report adopted.

Third Readings today.

THIRD READING

The following Bills were read the third time and passed:

The Petroleum (Exploration and Production) Bill, 2008

Anti-Human Trafficking Bill, 2008

The Zambia Police (Amendment) Bill, 2008

The Local Courts (Amendment) Bill, 2008

The Judicial (Code of Conduct) (Amendment) Bill, 2008

The Accountants Bill, 2008

The Small Claims Court (Amendment) Bill, 2008

The Supplementary Appropriation (2006) Bill, 2008

The Public Procurement Bill, 2008

_______

MOTION

ADJOURNMENT SINE DIE

The Minister of Defence (Mr Mpombo): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn sine die.

Question put and agreed to.

___________

The House adjourned accordingly at 1443 hours on Friday, 12th September, 2008, sine die.

___________ {mospagebreak}

 

WRITTEN REPLIES TO QUESTIONS

CONSTRUCTION OF STAFF HOUSES AT ZOKWE HEALTH POST IN LUMEZI CONSTITUENCY

362. Mr I. Banda (Lumezi) asked the Minister of Health when the ministry would construct staff houses at Zokwe Health Post in Lumezi Parliamentary Constituency, which was constructed by the community from the Community Resource Board funds and the Constituency Development Fund.

The Minister of Health (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, the staff houses at Zokwe Health Post shall be completed by the end of this year.

The contract was awarded this month and the contractor has moved on site and we expect the staff houses to be completed this year.

I thank you, Sir.

STREAMLINING OPERATIONS OF THE ROAD TRANSPORT AND SAFETY AGENCY

363. Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport when the operations of the Road Transport and Safety Agency would be streamlined in order to reduce queues and congestion during the issuance of motor vehicle licences.

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, the Road Traffic Commission (RTC) and National Road Safety Council (NRSC) were merged to form the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA) in order to streamline road traffic management in Zambia. To this effect, the Road Transport and Safety Agency has been implementing a vigorous programme to computerise services across all service delivery points and also expanding the pay points across the country in order to decongest the Lumumba office.

The Road Transport and Safety Agency is also exploring the randomising of issuance of motor vehicle licences so that they could be issued through out the year instead of the four peak periods.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.