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Debates- Wednesday, 19th November, 2008
DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE SECOND SESSION OF THE TENTH ASSEMBLY
Wednesday, 19th November, 2008
The House met at 1430 hours
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
NATIONAL ANTHEM
PRAYER
_______
MINISTERIAL STATEMENT
PROCUREMENT OF INPUTS UNDER THE FERTILISER SUPPORT PROGRAMME FOR THE 2008/2009 FARMING SEASON
The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, following my predecessor’s statement given in September, 2008, I wish to update this august House on the current status of the procurement and distribution of fertiliser under the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) for the 2008 and 2009 farming season.
Mr Speaker, hon. Members will recall that FSP was only allocated a sum of K185 billion, which was approved by this august House for the 2008 and 2009 farming season. With this budgetary allocation, the programme would have only procured 50,000 metric tonnes of fertiliser and 1,500 metric tonnes of maize seed. This would have only supported 75,000 small-scale farmers.
Mr Speaker, in order to address the escalating fertiliser and food prices, the Government revised the procurement plan of FSP to 80,000 metric tonnes of fertilisers and 4,000 metric tonnes of maize seed. The successful bidding suppliers quoted the programme at an average price of US$1,311.18 cents per metric tonne of fertiliser. After intervention from the Government, the programme was revised and will now cater for a total of 200,000 small-scale farmers. A total budget of K185 billion, initially allocated in 2008, required an additional K307 billion, bringing the total budget for the programme for the 2008 and 2009 season to K492 billion.
Mr Speaker, by September, 2008, the Government had paid 50 per cent of the value of the 80,000 metric tonnes of fertilisers to allow the selective suppliers, Omnia Small-Scale Limited and Nyiombo Investments Limited to continue distributing the inputs to the various districts in the country. The Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives, in conjunction with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning, is making efforts to pay the remaining 50 per cent of the contracted amount upon verification of the delivered quantities.
Mr Speaker, the delivery to all districts of both fertilisers and maize seed commenced at the end of August, 2008. The delay in the delivery of inputs to districts was mainly due to transport challenges first by the suppliers, Nyiombo and Omnia. TAZARA had problems in transporting the inputs in good time. Meanwhile, the distribution of inputs to targeted farmers in respective districts was officially launched in the first week of November, 2008 and farmers have since started paying and collecting their farming inputs. Officials in my ministry have gone round the country to monitor the input distribution and are satisfied with the exercise so far.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Members of this august House may recall that the original subsidy level for the 2008 and 2009 farming season was at 75 per cent. This meant that the farmers were to pay, a price ranging from K57,000 to K67,000, depending on the distances from the point of entry, for a 50 Kg bag of fertiliser. However, the Government revised the price to K50,000 for all the farmers, regardless of their geographical location, while maize seed will remain subsidised at 75 per cent. This implies that the Government will bear the cost of transport. I wish to emphasise the point that only the fertilisers and maize seed under the FSP are accessible at this reduced rate. The objective of this policy is to promote equity of access by all small-scale farmers to inputs.
Mr Speaker, the increase in the subsidy level will greatly cushion the farmers from the prevailing high input prices. This has also been done to address the worsening food supply situation in the country.
I wish to advise all hon. Members of Parliament, Permanent Secretaries and District Commissioners that their major role is to supervise the District Agriculture Committees, but that they are not members of these committees. My further appeal is that district provincial officers should work with local politicians in the implementation of this programme.
Mr Speaker, given the escalating world fertiliser prices, compounded with the high transport and fuel costs, my ministry would like to expedite the rehabilitation of Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ) in order to produce basal fertilisers locally. The rehabilitation of the NCZ Plant will also ensure that the cost of fertiliser is affordable to the farming community.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Order! Hon. Members may now ask questions on points of clarification on the statement which has been made by the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for this opportunity. I would also like to thank the hon. Minister for the statement delivered and congratulate him for making that initiative.
Mr Speaker, the hon. Minster indicated that TAZARA and other transporters have had a few problems meeting the logistical requirements for taking these fertilisers and inputs to the designated areas. Normally, as a customer, if you keep your cargo with a transporter and fail to move it on time, you are charged what are deemed demurrage charges. Does the Government have any recourse to the delays that TAZARA has caused and that have led to the delays in delivering the inputs?
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, TAZARA is our parastatal company. Admittedly, this is a business transaction, but we had correspondence from TAZARA requesting assistance with regard to the transportation of this very important commodity. Being a business entity, this extra charge has to be borne by the company itself.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Fertiliser Support Programme includes the requirement that co-operatives need to have a minimum of K10 million in their accounts before they can access this Fertiliser Support Programme as it is now in Kalomo. Is that a requirement?
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, as far as the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives is concerned, that information is new and the ministry has not made that requirement for co-operative societies to benefit from this programme.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I would like the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives to confirm whether, indeed, the increase from 75,000 to 200,000 beneficiaries is as a result of elections and if not, could he assure this House that next year, the Fertiliser Support Programme will benefit the same 200,000 people.
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the answer to that question is a categorical no because I have given the reasons why it was necessary and still is necessary to increase this Fertiliser Support Programme to a larger number of our small-scale farmers. The reasons are that the continued increase in the oil prices and global food shortages in addition to the need increased input costs. Having realised the poverty levels in our countries, it was necessary in the ambit of our policy of poverty reduction and wealth creation to increase this group from 70,000 to 200,000 farmers.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the composition of the District Agriculture Committee and why hon. Members of Parliament are not members of that committee.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, it was necessary, as I stated in my statement that the role of Parliamentarians should be that of supervisory to ensure that there is equity of distribution and that these inputs are given to qualifying beneficiaries. Now, as we, as hon. Member of Parliament, are involved in the nitty-gritty, the oversight role will be lost. This is why we have to be above the technical group so that we can ensure that all our electorates who qualify are accorded this opportunity.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, the budget which was allocated for these inputs is close to K500 billion. The amount of money required to meet the cost of the increased number is bigger. The hon. Minister alluded to the fact that Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia has a plan in place to fix the plant because I am aware that all …
Mr Speaker: Order! Ask your follow-up question, please.
Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, what plans has the ministry put in place to make the price of fertiliser affordable because all the fertilisers have been imported at a great cost? What plans does the hon. Minister have to rehabilitate Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia because half of this amount required to meet the shortfall could have helped?
Mr Speaker, my second question is that the fertiliser is not available for people who are not included in the 200,000 beneficiaries. What plans are there to make this available for people who want to buy fertiliser?
Mr Speaker: Order! Before the hon. Minister answers, hon. Members must observe the one question rule.
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I mentioned that, as a ministry, we have planned to come to this House to request for money as part of our activity for 2009 to rehabilitate the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia in Kafue. In so doing, we believe that we will be cutting down the cost of importing all the fertilisers. This plan is for the Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia to manufacture D-Compound which is very complex. If we do that, we can improve the agricultural activities throughout the year.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Msichili (Kabushi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what mechanism has been put in place to ensure that this fertiliser goes to the intended beneficiaries.
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I must admit that this has been a difficult area. As a ministry, we started a small-scale farmers’ register so that as we allocate these inputs, our co-operatives will be held accountable to not only receiving the inputs, but also giving out the feedback on the expected or estimated production of maize. By reorganising the District Agriculture Committees that includes the District Agriculture Co-ordinating Committees (DACCOS) and officials from the Office of the President, we believe that stakeholders like the District Farmers Associations will do their best to ensure that this Fertiliser reaches the intended beneficiaries.
Mr Speaker, in addition to that, there is a need for each co-operator to be on the look out that these fertilisers which are procured at a high cost are used at the local level and not sold back to the major cities.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwenzi): Mr Speaker, it has been raining for one and half weeks in the Southern Province and farmers have not received fertiliser. While farmers are waiting for this fertiliser, what is the ministry doing to ensure that seed is given to them so that they can plant immediately the rains start?
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, as I mentioned earlier on, there were problems of transportation. However, when we send these inputs the fertilisers and seed are sent as a package. Specifically, in the Southern Province, I can confirm that a lot of requirements as I mentioned, were processed in August and farmers collected their packages at the beginning of November. If there are some areas where this has not happened, they are very few. We want to start planning for the purchase of inputs as early as possible for these areas that have not yet received their inputs so that perhaps by July, inputs will be available in the districts.
I thank you, Sir.
Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, firstly, I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister on his appointment as Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives. I sincerely hope that he will use his military pragmatism and acumen …
Laughter
Major Chizhyuka: … to add value and sense of urgency to the problems of agriculture.
Having said that, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, …
Hon. Member: The General!
Major Chizhyuka: … the General, whether he is aware that inspite of the effort made to deliver almost 20 per cent free fertiliser to the vulnerable, 70 per cent of the people affected by the flood have no capacity to buy seed, and therefore, will have no use for the fertiliser as a result of the incessant flood which caused in excess of 70 per cent crop failure. I ask this important question because I just came back from Namwala over the weekend …
Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives!
Laughter
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Namwala who is my neighbour for that question. What should have happened is that, when we have disasters as we had in thirty-nine of our districts, planning should have started immediately. I am confident that the Office of His Honour the Vice-President under the Disaster Management and Mitigating Unit (DMMU) will certainly have looked at that. The hon. Member of Parliament is bringing this issue now when it is raining and all I can say is that it is not too late. Perhaps, we can see how quickly His Honour the Vice-President’s office and our office can link up agriculture. Perhaps there many other areas where help can be forthcoming with regard to seed.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Misapa (Mporokoso): Mr Speaker, in Mporokoso, people expected 3,996 packages, but have only received 1,360 packs, may I learn from the hon. Minister whether there is room to supply more fertilisers there to cushion the deficit?
Hon. Member: Hear, hear!
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, as I earlier mentioned, Mporokoso could be one of those districts where a 100 per cent of inputs have not been delivered yet. I think that is an area that can be looked at as this is still going on.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, considering the recession of the fishing industry now, what plans has the Minister put in place with regard to areas such as Luapula Province whose mainstay has always been fishing to assist those who are diversifying into agriculture? What plans are there to, at least, jump-start these small-scale farmers?
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, our policy is to strengthen whatever enterprise that is going on in each province. The hon. Member is aware that we try to put in fingerlings in our lakes on a yearly programme.
With regard to fish farming, this has been an on-going industry because the people there are experts in that area. It is a question planning at the district level. Mr Speaker, our budgeting starts from the districts. In accordance with our Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP), these are the areas where we have made agriculture a priority. Certainly, if fishing is a priority in that province or district, I see no reason why that cannot be strengthened in that district or province.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Kapeya (Mpika): Mr Speaker, my question was similar to the one asked by the hon. Member of Parliament for Mporokoso.
Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, in view of the fact that the yield of hybrid maize drops around five bags per hectare for every week late in planting, and in view of the fact that planting requires that basal dressing be there, and that in places such as Kasenga in Chongwe, 20 kilometres from the hon. Minister’s office, fertiliser is not yet there, can the Minister tell us when the last bag and not the first of basal dressing will be delivered?
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, we are aware of the need for timely delivery of agricultural inputs, including D-Compound. That is something I need to follow up because I mentioned that there is no single district that has either not completely received D-Compound or basal dressing. If we there is a small section in Chongwe without inputs, that can be corrected in the shortest possible time.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Mr Speaker, the issue of graduating farmers is very cardinal. I would like to find out whether the Government has got any plans for the graduating farmers who will not access the fertiliser because this fertiliser will just go to a few people.
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that very important question. The Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) was reviewed from the 2002/2003 farming season to the last season, but it was found that no farmer had graduated to the next level. Definitely, there are various reasons that led to that such as the drought, the floods and other causes. Therefore, we have to look at the possibility of these people graduating from this level to the next level.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
_______
QUESTIONS
USER FRINDLY TRANSPORT FOR THE DISABLED
431. Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi) asked the Minister of Community Development and Social Services whether there were any plans to procure user friendly transport or modified cars specifically for the disabled in the country.
The Deputy Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Malwa): Mr Speaker, the Ministry has no plans, at the moment, to procure user friendly transport or modified cars specifically for persons living with disabilities in the country. However, we will consult the two sister ministries, the Ministry of Works and Supply and the Ministry of Communications and Transport to engage and encourage transporters to ensure that they purchase vehicles and other forms of transportation that are user friendly for the disabled persons.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister when his Ministry is going to bring a Bill which will incorporate the issues of disability and also ensure that the mobility of the disabled is catered for.
The Minister of Community Development and Social Services (Mr Kaingu): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank Hon. Mukanga for that question and for his passion, love and concern for people living with disabilities.
Mr Speaker, early this year, he debated very well about people living with disabilities and said, in this House, that all of us are potential people living with disabilities. Yesterday, he came out very strongly again, when we were debating the Report on Health, Community Development and Social Services, on the Zambia Agency for People Living with Disabilities (ZAPLD). Hon. Member, that is very good and I commend you.
Mr Speaker, we are working on the policy for people living with disabilities. It is difficult for us to come up with transport that will only cater for them, but what we are doing in that policy is encourage the people who will bring transport that has provisions for people who are disabled by giving them tax concessions.
Mr Speaker, regarding when we are going to bring the Bill, I will say that at the moment, we are not ready.
I thank you, Sir.
SALE OF ZCI SHARES TO KCM
432. Mr D. Mwila (Chipili) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:
(a) why the Zambia Copper Investments decided to sell its shares to Konkola Copper Mines (KCM) Plc;
(b) what the total value of the shares sold was; and
(c) what the current shareholding structure of KCM Plc was.
The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, on Friday, 27th February 2007, we answered a similar question asked by Hon. Matongo on Standing Order No. 30. We informed the House that at the time the Anglo- American Corporation was the majority shareholder, it had 58 per cent shares in Konkola Copper Mines Plc. These shares were held by Zambia Copper Investments (ZCI).
When Vedanta Resources Plc came in as a Strategic Partner in Konkola Copper Mines Plc in 2004, ZCI reduced its shareholding from 58 per cent to 28.4 per cent and the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines-Investment Holdings (ZCCM-IH) reduced its shareholding from 42 per cent to 20.6 per cent. In this way, Vedanta purchased 51 per cent shares in Konkola Copper Mines Plc and became the majority shareholder.
At the time, a Call Option Deed was signed to the effect that should ZCI intend to sell the 28.4 per cent shares, Vedanta should be given the option to buy the shares. Vedanta has since exercised the share option and ZCI, accordingly, made the decision to sell the shares to Vedanta.
Mr Speaker, the total value of shares sold was US$213,150,000. The current shareholding structure of KCM is as follows:
Organisation Shares
i. Vedanta Resources 79.4 percent
ii ZCCM-IH 20.6 percent
iii. GRZ Golden Share
Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that a Golden Share is also referred to as a special share and usually has a nominal value of US$1. A written consent of the special shareholder is required to effect the taking or the permitting of the taking of any step to have the company voluntarily wound up by its members or to voluntarily take advantage of any provisions of the Companies Act or similar legislation in relation to winding up the company; or for any material change in the nature of the business.
The written consent of the special shareholder shall be required to give effect to any resolution to change the locus of incorporation of the company. The special shareholder in Zambia is the hon. Minister responsible for Finance and National Planning.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, at the time shares were sold by ZCI to KCM, there was a public outcry for the shares to be floated to the public. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister the position of the Government over this matter.
The Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr M. Mwale): Mr Speaker, the position of the Government is that it would have been our desire to see that the public was accorded an opportunity to buy some shares in KCM. However, as our response was to the House, there was a Call Option Deed which Vedanta evoked and, hence they bought the shares off Zambia Copper Investments (ZCI).
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mukanga: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out why the Government did not use the Golden Share to ensure that the public were afforded an opportunity to get shares in KCM.
Mr M. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I am sure that the hon. Members will know that this is a Government of laws and respects laws. An agreement was entered into and it would not have been prudent for us to abrogate the agreement.
Thank you, Sir.
Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, in part (a) of the question, the hon. Minister indicated that US$213,530 was the share transfer price or the value of shares that was sold to Konkola Copper Mines (KCM). I would like to find out from the hon. Minister, how this money was utilised. I hope it was not just dipped in ZCCM minus the Government’s participation because I know that the Government has a stake …
Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development.
Mr M. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I note that the hon. Member is confusing issues. Independent valuers carried out the valuation and arrived at US$213,150 as the shareholding that Zambia Copper Investment (ZCI) had in KCM. ZCI did not sell its shares to KCM, but VEDANTA which had shares in KCM.
I thank you, Sir.
Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, this is a Government of laws and they will follow the laws. The Golden Share is as much a function of that law. Why did you find it expedient not to use the Golden Share given the public demand with the respect to those shares was that there was a need for a public rotation. Are you admitting that the function of the Golden Share is useless, moribund and a figment of the imagination of the ministry?
Mr M. Mwale: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Members will recall very well, when the then hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development gave a statement in this House, he categorically stated that we would like to use a persuasive method rather than a dictating method. I think that is the route that we would rather use than try to break the law.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}
OIL PROSPECTING IN CHAMA AND LUNDAZI DISTRICTS
Mr Tembo (Nyimba) asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development what the current position was regarding oil prospecting in Chama and Lundazi Districts.
The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, my ministry, through the Geological Survey Department, undertook a survey of the North Luangwa Valley by using a microbial technique for oil and gas exploration. A total of 153 soil samples were taken from the subsurface. Subsequently, a follow-up infill soil sampling was done in the western part of Chama District covering an area of about 200 square kilometres. A total of 211 samples were taken and the results indicated the area was prospective for oil and gas.
Now that the Petroleum Exploration and Production Act 1985 has been repealed and replaced, the Government is in the process of inviting companies to determine whether there are economic sizes and grades of the oil and gas deposits in the areas. The areas have been demarcated into twenty-nine blocks and companies will be invited to bid for tenders to undertake investigations leading to feasibility studies and petroleum development.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Tembo: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out how soon the Government is likely to invite those companies for bids and tenders.
Mr M. Mwale: Mr Speaker, as a Government, we are already in the process and by the first quarter of 2009, we will be inviting would-be bidders to carry out the works. I would like to request the hon. Members that they could be part of those who could take part in this exploration work rather than always complaining about the trickle-down effect.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sichilima: Epotuli.
Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, oil exploration is very straight forward and the hon. Minister said the initial exploration showed that we have oil deposits. I am wondering why the Government is talking about inviting other companies to explore, when we have all the potential and we have people who can tell us about the oil. In the meantime, one may form a company, but we were told by the former hon. Minister that it would be a parastatal to handle the marketing of oil. Why are you going around in circles?
PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr M. Mwale: Mr Speaker, if the hon. Member carefully listened to our response and I quote “the areas have been demarcated in twenty-nine blocks and companies will be invited to bid for tenders to undertake the investigations leading to feasibility studies and petroleum development”. This means that these companies will carry out these works which will lead to petroleum production. As it stands now, we cannot give a definite response that we have oil and gas, but there are positive indications that there is oil and gas. Only when we have produced the first barrel of oil shall we proudly say we are an oil producing country.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Sichilima: Ema Minister, aya.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development whether the ministry has any plans to extend the oil prospecting activities to Lake Bangweulu in view of the escalating fuel prices in the country.
Mr M. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I take note that the hon. Member should have started by congratulating me his cousin.
Laughter
Mr M. Mwale: However, I would like to inform the hon. Member that the ministry has carried out works in Luapula and we have the information of the findings. I should mention here that Luapula has already been demarcated into blocks.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister which province the ministry will consider first because there are two provinces with oil prospects?
Mr M. Mwale: Mr Speaker, however, I would like to correct that him by saying that there are four provinces with oil prospects and these are North-Western, Luapula, Western and Eastern and Southern provinces. The works in these provinces are on going and we are just waiting for the findings.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, I congratulate my cousin as he moves forward while others move back. Congratulations!
Laughter
Dr Machungwa: It is a game of musical chairs. The question is what progress has been made in analysing samples from the Lake Bangweulu which is rumoured or reported by your colleagues to have some possibility of gold? What further information do we have on this prospect?
Mr M. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I think the results that we have from the sub-surface survey that was carried out are positive enough to show that some works can be carried out in the Luapula Province. I would also like take this opportunity to say that there is no preferred province in terms of starting the works. The works will be carried out across the whole country.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
TALENT IDENTIFICATION IN RURAL AREAS
434. Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development:
(a) what plans the Ministry had to tap talent in sports from rural areas; and
(b) how much money the Ministry spent for the activity at (a) above in 2007 and 2008.
The Deputy Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Dr Kalila): Mr Speaker, my ministry has set up a Talent Identification and Capacity Building Steering Committee to tap talent from all parts of Zambia, including rural areas. The committee is headed by the National Sports Council of Zambia and includes the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development, Ministry of Education and National Olympics Committee, among others. The Steering Committee is working in conjunction with various sports associations.
Mr Speaker, as regards part (b) of the question, my ministry did not spend any money on the Talent Identification programme in 2007 because this programme just commenced this year (2008). The programme has a budget allocation of K1.4 billion in this year’s Budget. So far, 383 sportsmen and women have been identified in different disciplines as follows:
No. of athletes identified per discipline Male Female Total
(i) Zambia Amateur Athletes Association 4 5 9
(ii) Badminton of Zambia 13 5 18
(iii) Basketball 25 21 46
(iv) Chess 21 19 40
(v) Football Association of Zambia 89 18 107
(vi) Handball 6 4 10
(vii) Netball 0 65 65
(viii) Table tennis 4 3 7
(ix) Volleyball 47 34 81
(x) Total identified athletes 189 174 383
This was at a total cost of K430,754,247.20
Mr Speaker, this is an ongoing programme aimed at identifying talent for the country’s effective participation in the 2011 All Africa Games.
Mr Speaker, I thank you.
Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister how often the newly formed committee will be visiting rural areas for talent identification.
The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Chipungu): Mr Speaker, I am thankful for that question by the hon. Member for Mfuwe. The committee will be visiting rural areas as often as possible. In fact, if the hon. Member wishes his area to be visited, he is free to approach the National Sports Council of Zambia or my office.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, suitable infrastructure is a good recipe for assisting men and women that would want to engage in sport. Poor infrastructure is detriment to sports development as people are discouraged to take up sports activities if there are no facilities. What is the ministry doing in the area of infrastructure so that a lot more talented sportsmen and women can be identified?
Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question. Plans are underway to develop sports infrastructure in the country, especially with the forthcoming 2011 All Africa Games.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
RETENTION OF PROFESSIONALS IN SPECIAL EDUCATION
435. Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu) asked the Minister of Education:
(a) what strategies the Government had formulated to retain professionals in the field of special education and attract other ordinary teachers to join the field; and
(b) how much money the Government had spent on the promotion of special education since 2002.
The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the following are the strategies that the Government has put in place to retain professionals in the field of special education and attract ordinary teachers to join the field:
(i) teachers trained in special education are put on a higher salary scale;
(ii) more opportunities have been created for special education teachers to obtain higher qualifications at the bachelor, master’s and P.hd level in the field of special education;
(iii) the ministry has created senior positions for which teachers in special education can compete at different levels; and
(iv) the ministry is in the process of building a Centre of Excellence at Munali which will also focus on assessment and replacement. It will also provide educational materials for teachers of special education.
As regards part (b) of the question, the ministry has spent K19,376,000,000 for the procurement of special education materials and equipment since 2002.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for that answer. However, I would like to find out the criteria that was used by the ministry to locate the Centre of Excellence in Lusaka and not in any other part of the country.
The Minister of Education (Professor Lungwangwa): Mr Speaker, the Centre of Excellence in special education is a highly specialised facility requiring a number of experts in various professions. Therefore, it was seen prudent to locate the facility in a place that will assist in facilitating the various specialised activities which will be executed at the centre and Munali or Lusaka has various support services that can complement the work of the centre.
I thank you, Sir.
Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): I would like to find out from the hon. Minister if the Government has any plans to take these centres or schools to all the provinces and districts so that children with learning disabilities can benefit from this initiative.
Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, in line with the Government’s policy of developing an-all-inclusive education system, we have established various units of special education in different parts of the country in various schools and these are currently providing the necessary facility and services for children with special education needs.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister of Education indicated that some of the incentives that teachers handling children with special learning needs are a slightly higher salary scale and access to higher academic credentials. The hon. Minister also knows that to teach, for instance, one blind child is equivalent to teaching fifteen children who have sight. Could the hon. Minister, therefore, tell us whether this slightly higher salary scale can translate into the amount of workload that these teachers have when in teaching children with special educational needs such as them getting a salary fifteen times higher than the teachers who teach normal children?
Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I am not quite sure whether the hon. Member for Mazabuka has done a thorough computational analysis of activities such as the one he is advancing at the moment. Clearly, I am failing to see a clear correlation between the hypothetical position that he is advancing and what is obtaining in terms of incentives in the remuneration as perceived by our professionals who, at the moment, are to a large extent, contended with the incentive package that is in place which, to some extent is commensurate with what they may perceive to be what they are worth.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Machungwa: Mr Speaker, in answering a supplementary question, the hon. Minister stated that the Centre of Excellence should be positioned in Lusaka because it is closer to other facilities and specialties that are needed. However, would he not agree that by concentrating all facilities and special education buildings and institutions in Lusaka, they are encouraging lopsided development where everything is in Lusaka and the rest of the country remains without anything and therefore everybody with special needs must rush and squat in Lusaka? Would he agree with this observation?
Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I do not agree with the position being taken by the hon. Member for Luapula who knows very well that this Government is doing a lot of developmental activities in different parts of the country to address the disparities and the inequities that exist in the geographical dispensation of developmental programmes in the education sector. For example, it is very clear and the information which shows very clearly that we are providing education in different parts of the country is there. As a psychologist, he knows very well that a Centre of Excellence requires specialised staff such as psychologists, medical doctors, sociologists, social workers and various other professionals who may not be available in other parts of our country and, hence the most logical decision to place such a facility in Lusaka.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: Order!
Hon. Members, in order to prepare you for the next item on the Order Paper, I will suspend business for a few minutes only.
Business was suspended from 1536 hours until 1547 hours.
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
MESSAGE BY THE PRESIDENT
BILLS FOR PRESIDENTIAL ASSENT FOR EMOLUMENTS PAYABLE TO THE PRESIDENT, MINISTERS AND PARLIAMENTARY AND CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICE HOLDERS
The Clerk: Pursuant to the provisions of Article 78 (4) of the Constitution of Zambia, I wish to inform you that I have withheld my assent to the following Bills which were considered and passed by the National Assembly on 15th August, 2008.
(i) The Presidential Emoluments (Amendment) Bill (N.A.B. 8/2008);
(ii) The Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices Emoluments (Amendment) Bill (N.A.B. 20/2008)
(iii) The Constitutional Offices Emoluments (Amendment) Bill (N.A.B. 20/2008
Mr Speaker may wish to know that the Treasury currently has insufficient resources to cover the proposed emoluments payable to the President in full due to the heavy expenditure the Government has incurred on the just-ended Presidential elections and the funeral of our late President of the Republic of Zambia, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC.
In light of the limited financial resources available, I hereby return the three Bills for reconsideration by the National Assembly and submit herewith amendments to the Bills so that an increase of fifteen (15) per cent is effected across the board on salaries and allowances of the President, Ministers, Members of Parliament and constitutional office holders in line with the 15 per cent increase in salaries awarded to officers in the public service this year.
Yours Sincerely,
Rupiah B. Banda
PRESIDENT OF THE REPUBLIC OF ZAMBIA
THE PRESIDENTIAL EMOLUMENTS AMMENDMENT BILL, 2008
The Vice-President (Mr Kunda, SC): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Presidential Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2008, be amended with the following words:
In Clause 2, on page 3
(i) in line 12
by the insertion of the word “and” and a semi-colon;
(ii) in line 13
by the deletion of “K157,210,523.00” and the semi-colon at the end of paragraph (b) and the substitution therefor of “K59,194,734” and a full-stop; and
(iii) in line 14
by the deletion of paragraph (c).
Mr Speaker, as this is my first speech to this august House after my elevation to the position of Vice-President of the Republic of Zambia, …
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: … I wish to thank you. Mr Speaker. and all the hon. Members for the congratulatory messages and the kind words which I have received from all of you.
I thank you.
Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!
The Vice-President: As has already been stated in the message of His Excellency the President of the Republic of Zambia to this august House that he has withheld his assent to the Presidential Emolument (Amendment) Bill, 2008, the Treasury currently has insufficient resources to cover the proposed emoluments payable to the President in full, mainly due to the heavy expenditure the Government has incurred on the just-ended Presidential elections and the funeral of our late President of the Republic of Zambia …
Hon. Opposition Members: Ahh!
The Vice-President: … Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC.
Mr Speaker: Order!
The Vice-President: In the light of the limited financial resources available, His Excellency the President has proposed in his amendment that the statutory emoluments payable to the President be increased by 15 per cent in line with the emoluments awarded to officers in the Public Service this year.
Mr Speaker, the figures shown in the schedule of the Bill are on an annual basis and not a monthly basis. I thought I should clarify this point.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move.
Mr Speaker: Before I put the question on the amendment moved by His Honour the Vice-President, let me guide that in accordance with the requirements of the provisions of Article 78 (4) of the Constitution of Zambia, the House shall proceed to a division. Let the Bell be rung. The Bell will ring for four minutes. As the House may be aware, when the Bell rings, it summons all hon. Members who may have gone out of the Chamber to come in and participate in the voting. The Bell is still ringing. I shall give a signal when the four minutes have elapsed and then move to the next procedural stage of the business. I hope the radio is on so that those who are listening can know how we do things professionally here.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: The four minutes are up and you can lock the doors. The doors which are locked are not the ones leading into the Chamber, but those leading into or out of the lobbies. Those are the doors which should be locked. Close the Bar.
Question that the Presidential Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2008, be amended, put and the House voted.
Ayes – (119)
Mr Akakandelwa
Mr A. Banda
Mr C. K. B. Banda
Mrs E. M. Banda
Mr I. Banda
Mr R. C. Banda
Mr Bonshe
Mr Bwalya
Mr Chanda
Colonel Chanda
Ms Changwe
Mr Chazangwe
Mr Chella
Mr Chibombamilimo
Mr Chilembo
Mr Chinyanta
Mr Chipungu
Mr Chisala
Mr Chisanga
Ms Chitika
Mr Chitonge
Dr Chituwo
Mr Chongo
Ms Cifire
Mr Daka
Mr Hachipuka
Mr Hamir
Mr Hamududu
Mr Hamusonde
Mr Imasiku
Mr Kachimba
Mr Kaingu
Mr Kakoma
Mr Kakusa
Mr Kalenga
Dr Kalila
Dr Kalumba
Mr Kambwili
Mrs Kapata
Mr Kapeya
Ms Kapwepwe
Mr Kasoko
Mr Kasongo
Mr Katuka
Dr Kazonga
Mr Konga
Mr Kunda
Mr Liato
Ms Limata
Mr Lungu
Professor Lungwangwa
Mr Mabenga
Mr Machila
Dr Machungwa
Mr Magande
Mr Malama
Mr Malwa
Mr Mangani
Ms Masiye
Mr Mbewe
Mr Mbulakulima
Mr Misapa
Mr Mooya
Mr Mpombo
Mr Mubika
Mr Muchima
Mr Mufalali
Mr Mukanga
Mr Mukuma
Mr L. J. Mulenga
Mr Mulonga
Mr Mulongoti
Mr Mulyata
Mr Munaile
Mr Munkombwe
Mr Muntanga
Dr Musokotwane
Mr Musosha
Mr Muteteka
Mr Muyanda
Mr Mwaanga
Mr M. Mwale
Mr V. Mwale
Mr Mwangala
Mr Mwansa
Dr Mwansa
Mr Mwanza
Mr Mwapela
Mrs Nalumango
Ms Namugala
Mr Namulambe
Mr Ndalamei
Mr Nkombo
Mr Ntundu
Mr Nyirenda
Reverend Nyirongo
Mr Pande
Mr Phiri
Mrs Phiri
Professor Phiri
Ms Sayifwanda
Dr Scott
Mr Shakafuswa
Mr Shawa
Mr Shikapwasha
Mr Sichamba
Mr Sichilima
Mr Sikazwe
Mr Silavwe
Ms Siliya
Mr Simama
Mr Simbao
Mr Simuusa
Mr Sing’ombe
Mr Sinyinda
Mr Syakalima
Mr Taima
Mr Tembo
Mr Tetamashimba
Noes – (09)
Dr Chishya
Major Chizhyuka
Mr Imenda
Dr Katema
Mr Msichili
Mr C. Mulenga
Mr Mwango
Mr Mwila
Mr Nsanda
Abstentions – (04)
Dr Chishimba
Mrs Mwamba
Mr Sejani
Mr Sikota
Question put and agreed to.
Amendment agreed to. Bill amended accordingly. {mospagebreak}
THE MINISTERIAL AND PARLIAMENTARY OFFICES EMOLUMENTS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2008
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2008, be amended with the following words:
On pages 4 and 5
by the deletion of Appendices I and II and the substitution therefor of the following Appendices:
APPENDIX I
(Section 2)
FIRST SCHEDULE
(Section 2)
SALARIES AND ALLOWANCES (IN KWACHA) PAYABLE TO SPECIFIED OFFICES
Office Salary Special Allowance Utility Allowance
Vice- President 99,227,544.00 33,886,567.00 26,680,000.00
Speaker 86,284,817.00 30,049,625.00 26,680,000.00
Deputy speaker 75,117,124.00 26,382,673.00 26,680,000.00
Cabinet Ministers 75,117,124.00 26,382,673.00 26,680,000.00
Chief whip 75,117,124.00 26,382,673.00 26,680,000.00
Leader of the Opposition 75,117,124.00 26,382,673.00 26,680,000.00
Deputy Ministers 70,953,186.00 25,107,904.00 26,680,000.00
Private Members 70,161,239.00 19,165,615.00 26,680,000.00
APPENDIX II
(Section 3)
SECOND SCHEDULE
(Section 2A)
CONSTITUENCY ALLOWANCE
Position Constituency Allowance
Kwacha
1. Vice-President 20,010,000.00
Rural Urban Nom. 16,008,000.00
Nominated 13,340,000.00
2. Speaker Rural 20,010,000.00
Urban Nominated 16,008,000.00
Nominated 13,340,000.00
3. Deputy Speaker 20,010,000.00
Rural Urban 16,008,000.00
Nominated 13,340,000.00
4. Cabinet Minister 20,010,000.00
Rural Urban 16,008,000.00
Nominated 13,340,000.00
5. Chief Whip 20,010,000.00
Rural Urban 16,008,000.00
Nominated 13,340,000.00
6. Leader of Opposition 20,010,000.00
Rural Urban 16,008,000.00
Nominated 13,340,000.00
7. Deputy Minister 20,100,000.00
Rural Urban 16,008,000.00
Nominated 13,340,000.00
8. Private Member 20,010,000.00
Rural Urban 16,008,000.00
Nominated 13,340,000.00
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the reasons I advanced for amending the Presidential Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2008, are true of the Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2008:
Mr Speaker I beg to move.
Question that the Ministerial and Parliamentary Offices Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2008, be amended put and the House voted.
Ayes – (122)
Mr Akakandelwa
Mr A. Banda
Mr C. K. B. Banda
Mrs E. M. Banda
Mr I. Banda
Mr R. C. Banda
Mr Bonshe
Mr Bwalya
Mr Chanda
Colonel Chanda
Ms Changwe
Mr Chazangwe
Mr Chella
Mr Chibombamilimo
Mr Chilembo
Mr Chinyanta
Mr Chipungu
Mr Chisala
Mr Chisanga
Dr Chishya
Mrs Chitika
Mr Chitonge
Dr Chituwo
Major Chizhyuka
Mr Chongo
Ms Cifire
Mr Daka
Mr Hachipuka
Mr Hamir
Mr Hamududu
Mr Hamusonde
Mr Imasiku
Mr Kachimba
Mr Kaingu
Mr Kakusa
Mr Kalenga
Dr Kalila
Dr Kalumba
Mr Kambwili
Mrs Kapata
Mr Kapeya
Ms Kapwepwe
Mr Kasoko
Mr Kasongo
Mr Katuka
Dr Kazonga
Mr Konga
Mr Kunda
Mr Liato
Ms Limata
Mr Lungu
Professor Lungwangwa
Mr Mabenga
Mr Machila
Dr Machungwa
Mr Magande
Mr Malama
Mr Malwa
Mr Mangani
Ms Masiye
Mr Mbewe
Mr Mbulakulima
Mr Misapa
Mr Mooya
Mr Mpombo
Mr Mubika
Mr Muchima
Mr Mufalali
Mr Mukanga
Mr Mukuma
Mr L. J. Mulenga
Mr Mulonga
Mr Mulongoti
Mr Mulyata
Mr Munaile
Mr Munkombwe
Mr Muntanga
Dr Musokotwane
Mr Musosha
Mr Muteteka
Mr Muyanda
Mr Mwaanga
Mr M. Mwale
Mr V. Mwale
Mr Mwangala
Mr Mwansa
Dr Mwansa
Mr Mwanza
Mr Mwapela
Mr Mwenya
Mr Mwila
Mrs Nalumango
Ms Namugala
Mr Namulambe
Mr Ndalamei
Mr Nkombo
Mr Ntundu
Mr Nyirenda
Reverend Nyirongo
Mr Pande
Mr Phiri
Professor Phiri
Dr Puma
Ms Sayifwanda
Dr Scott
Mr Shakafuswa
Mr Shawa
Mr Shikapwasha
Mr Sichamba
Mr Sichilima
Mr Sikazwe
Mr Silavwe
Ms Siliya
Mr Simama
Mr Simbao
Mr Simuusa
Mr Sing’ombe
Mr Sinyinda
Mr Syakalima
Mr Taima
Mr Tembo
Mr Tetamashimba
Noes – (06)
Mr Imenda
Mr Kakoma
Dr Katema
Mrs Phiri
Mr Mwango
Mr Nsanda
Abstentions – (06)
Dr Chishimba
Mr Msichili
Mr C. Mulenga
Mrs Mwamba
Mr Sejani
Mr Sikota
Question put and agreed to.
Amendment agreed to. Bill amended accordingly.
THE CONSTITUTIONAL OFFICES EMOLUMENTS (AMENDMENT) BILL, 2008
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the Constitutional Offices Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2008, be amended with the following words:
On page 4, in the Appendix
by the deletion of the schedule and the substitution therefor of the following schedule:
SCHEDULE
(Section 2)
SALARIES AND ALLOWANCES PAYABLE TO HOLDERS OF SPECIFIED OFFICES
Office Salary Per Annum Responsibility Allowance
Per annum
Kwacha Kwacha
Secretary to the Cabinet 159,340,959.00 48,300,000.00
Attorney-General 135,485,950.00 41,400,000.00
Investigator General 129,034,245.00 41,400,000.00
Auditor-General 129,034,245.00 41,400,000.00
Solicitor-General 129,034,245.00 35,479,800.00
Director of Public
Prosecutions 129,034,245.00 35,479,800.00
The Vice-President: Mr Speaker, the reasons I advanced for amending the Presidential Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2008, are true of the Constitutional Offices Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2008:
Mr Speaker I beg to move.
Question that the Constitutional Offices Emoluments (Amendment) Bill, 2008 be amended put and the House voted.
Ayes: ─ (119)
Mr Akakandelwa
Mr A.Banda
Mr C.K.B Banda
Mr R. C.Banda
Mr Banda I.
Mr Bonshe
Mr Bwalya
Mr Chanda
Ms Changwe
Mr Chazangwe
Mr Chella
Mr Chibombamilimo
Mr Chilembo
Mr Chinyata
Mr Chipungu
Mr Chisala
Mr Chisanga
Dr Chishya
Mrs Chitika
Mr Chitonge
Dr Chituwo
Major Chizhyuka
Mr Chongo
Ms Cifire
Mr Daka
Mr Hachipuka
Mr Hamir
Mr Hamududu
Mr Hamusonde
Mr Imasiku
Mr Kachimba
Mr Kaingu
Mr Kakoma
Mr Kakusa
Mr Kalenga
Dr Kalila
Dr Kalumba
Mr Kambwili
Mrs Kapata
Mr Kapeya
Ms Kapwepwe
Mr Kasoko
Mr Kasongo
Mr Katuka
Dr Kazonga
Mr Konga
Mr Kunda
Mr Liato
Ms Limata
Mr Lungu
Professor Lungwangwa
Mr Mabenga
Mr Machila
Dr Machungwa
Mr Magande
Mr Malama
Mr Malwa
Mr Mangani
Mr Mbewe
Mr Mbulakulima
Mr Misapa
Mr Mooya
Mr Mpombo
Mr Mubika
Mr Muchima
Mr Mufalali
Mr Mukanga
Mr Mukuma
Mr L. J. Mulenga
Mr Mulonga
Mr Mulongoti
Mr Mulyata
Mr Munaile
Mr Munkombwe
Mr Muntanga
Dr Musokotwane
Mr Musosha
Mr Muteteka
Mr Muyanda
Mr Mwaanga
Mr V..Mwale
Mr M. B. Mwale
Mr Mwangala
Mr Mwansa
Dr Mwansa
Mr Mwanza
Mr Mwapela
Mr Mwila
Mrs Nalumango
Ms Namugala
Mr Namulambe
Mr Ndalamei
Mr Nkombo
Mr Ntundu
Mr Nyirenda
Reverend Nyirongo
Mr Pande
Mr Phiri
Professor Phiri
Dr Puma
Ms Sayifwanda
Dr Scott
Mr Shakafuswa
Mr Shawa
Mr Shikapwasha
Mr Sichamba
Mr Sichilima
Mr Sikazwe
Mr Silavwe
Ms Siliya
Mr Simama
Mr Simbao
Mr Sing’ombe
Mr Sinyinda
Mr Syakalima
Mr Taima
Mr Tembo F.R
Mr Tembo V.
Mr Tetamashimba
Noes: ─ (13)
Mr E. M. Banda
Col Chanda
Dr Chishimba
Dr Katema
Ms Masiye
Mr Msichili
Mr C. Mulenga
Mr Mwango
Mr Mwenya
Mr Ngoma
Mr Nsanda
Mrs Phiri
Mr Simuusa
Abstentions: ─ (03)
Mrs Mwamba
Mr Sejani
Mr Sikota
Question put and agreed to.
Amendment agreed to. Bill amended accordingly.
__________
MOTION
REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON SPORT, YOUTH AND CHILD AFFAIRS
Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do adopt the Report of the Committee of Sport, Youth and Child Affairs for the Second Session of the Tenth National Assembly laid on the Table of the House on 13th November, 2008.
Mr Speaker: Is the Motion seconded?
Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Yes, Mr Speaker
Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, for this year’s study, your Committee decided to pay particular attention to the following topics:
Mr Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, before we went on break, I was saying that for this year’s study, your Committee decided to pay particular attention to the following topics:
(i) Zambia’s preparations for participating in and hosting of the 2011 All Africa Games; and
(ii) an assessment of the implementation of the Constituency Youth Development Fund (CYDF);
Mr Speaker, with regard to the first topic, your Committee decided to carry out an appraisal of preparations that are currently taking place relating to the All Africa Games. After examining the submissions from various witnesses, it became very clear to your Committee that Zambia has limited time to prepare for the games. There is, therefore, an urgent need for the Government to intervene in the matter and ensure that the remaining time is used efficiently.
Mr Speaker, for Zambia to successfully participate in the 2001 All Africa Games, talent identification and training has to start as soon as possible. Zambia cannot afford to wait for the building of the new facilities. Suitable facilities already in existence should be identified and used for training. Further, your Committee strongly recommend that the Government should target all its efforts at ensuring the building and rehabilitation of sports infrastructure is completed in good time.
Mr Speaker, to ensure expediency in the process of talent identification, COJA-Zambia should work closely with the National Sports Council of Zambia and its affiliates. Your Committee were, however, concerned to note that the National Sports Council of Zambia currently lacks strong and able leadership. The Secretary-General is operating in an acting capacity and due to lack of resources, the National Sports Councils is failing to operate in accordance with its established mandate of monitoring, co-ordinating and providing support to its affiliates.
Your Committee recommend that the Government should ensure that strong and able leadership is established at the National Sports Councils of Zambia and that the council is provided with the adequate resources to efficiently carry out its activities
Mr Speaker, athletics is a major sports event carrying an expected total of 135 medals in the All Africa Games. However, your Committee is sad to learn that currently, the Zambia Amateur Athletes Association (ZAAA) has only three reliable athletes who are ready to participate in an international event. At the 2008 Olympic Games in Beijing in China, Zambia, through ZAAA was able to send only two athletes and no medals were won. This is sad, especially for an organisation such ZAAA, which has been in existence since 1964.
Sir, your Committee recommend that the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development, through the National Sports Council of Zambia, should overhaul the entire ZAAA Executive. Its operations and finances need to be thoroughly examined and streamlined to ensure that they are able to move the sports athletic body in an effect and efficient manner. In other words, ZAAA is recommended for dissolution.
Mr Speaker, ZAAA should move away from the talent identification and concentrate on training the talent identified by the national structures such as schools, colleges and universities. Community-based sports teams should also be used for talent identification.
Mr Speaker, as pointed out above, schools are a major source of sports talent and your Committee have observed that the Ministry of Education is doing a lot in the promotion of sport in the schools. However, your Committee are concerned that sport in schools, especially secondary schools does not have a specific budget allocation. Sports facilities in schools are in a deplorable state and most have been encroached upon by private structures.
Mr Speaker, this should be seriously looked into by the Government. School sports facilities should be well maintained and protected from vandalism and encroachment. A proactive approach that entails sensitising the community on the importance of protecting sports infrastructure should be embarked upon.
Your Committee, Sir, are happy to note that the Government, through COJA-Zambia, has laid down plans to build ultra modern sports infrastructure and rehabilitate to modern standards sports infrastructure already in existence in Lusaka which will be the host city for the games.
Your Committee recommend that deliberate efforts should be put in place to ensure that major obstacles which have delayed the building and rehabilitation process such as the limited amounts of cement in the country and the long process of tender applications and consideration are removed and progress hastened.
Mr Speaker, in preparing to host the games, particular attention should be paid to the Lusaka International Airport which will be the main gateway into the country. Your Committee recommend that the Government should ensure that funds are made available to rehabilitate the airport infrastructure and provide it with modern aircraft monitoring equipment. The hosting of the games is also an opportunity to market Zambia and Lusaka in particular. Your Committee, therefore, recommend that the roads around Lusaka should be rehabilitated and well maintained. The “Keep Lusaka Clean Compaign” should also the intensified.
An Assessment of the Implementation of the Constituency Youth Development Fund (CYDF)
Mr Speaker, in their assessment of the implementation of the fund, your Committee note that from 2003, the Government, through the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development, has been releasing money for equal distribution to all the 150 constituencies in Zambia. During the 2006/2007 period, a total of K273,770 was distributed.
Your Committee were sad to learn that the disbursement of the funds to the youth groups was delayed and in some cases, for up to a period of one year. The delays which were due to various administrative procedures were a great hindrance to the success of the fund. During the period of delay, prices of commodities and services kept rising so much that by the time the funds were released, it was difficult to utilise them according to their originally intended purposes.
Your Committee observed that the CYDF had no allocation for administrative costs. It was, therefore, difficult to monitor and evaluate the projects once the funds had been released to the various youth groups.
Mr Speaker, your Committee further noted that the CYDF procedure of approval of applications was unclear, leading to suspicions of unfair interference and arbitrary approvals. The guidelines of the CYDF were bulky and written only in English. This, Sir, further alienated several youths who were not able to read and understand them.
Mr Speaker, the lack of information amongst the several stakeholders in the area of youth empowerment raises a lot of concern. Your Committee discovered that some stakeholders and the youths themselves were not aware of the fact that youth empowerment funds had been transferred from the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development to the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC). The few who knew about the transfer, Mr Speaker, expressed a lot of concern. Your Committee were also concerned upon learning that under the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission, the youth will not be considered as a specific group in need of support. They will be considered generally with the rest of vulnerable individuals in need of economic support.
To effectively succeed in the area of youth economic empowerment, it is important, Sir, that the Government, through the newly established Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission, comes up with specific guidelines that will apply to the youths as a unique group of citizens. Youths, who form more than half of the Zambian population, are a special group with particular needs that can, therefore, not be adequately addressed if viewed together with other groups.
Your Committee, Sir, further recommend that, for successful implementation of youth economic empowerment, the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission should continue to work closely with the Ministries of Sport, Youth and Child Development and Community Development and Social Welfare who have vast experience in dealing with issues affecting the youth.
Information, Mr Speaker, is power. Therefore, your Committee recommend that information on the operations of the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission should be adequately disseminated to all areas of Zambia. The presence of the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission should be decentralised countrywide. The guidelines and procedures for applying for the empowerment funds should be minimised, less complicated and printed in all the seven Zambian national languages. The process of consideration of the applications for funds should be transparent.
In order for youth empowerment to succeed, Sir, it is important that administrative costs are adequately allocated. These will allow for timely monitoring and evaluation of projects, without which, the success of the fund cannot be established. Adequate, funding should be allocated for youth economic empowerment. This will allow the youths to venture into realistic and sustainable projects. The release of funds should be timely to avoid delays that would have a negative impact on the success of the projects.
Mr Speaker, the role of stakeholders, such as Members of Parliament, in the area of youth economic empowerment, should be specifically and clearly spelt out. This will avoid the issue of unfair interference and confusion.
In conclusion, Sir, allow me to express my gratitude to you for the guidance to your Committee during their deliberations and for appointing us to serve on your Committee. I also would like to thank all the stakeholders for their submissions to the Committee. I further wish to congratulate the Members of your Committee for working tirelessly in order to come up with this Report.
Finally, Mr Speaker, may I extend my gratitude, on behalf of your Committee, to the Office of the Clerk of the National Assembly for facilitating our meetings, tours and for the invaluable advice and services rendered during the year.
Mr Speaker, I beg to move.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Does the seconder wish to speak now or later?
Mr Sichamba (Isoka West): Now, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker, in seconding this Motion, let me begin by congratulating the Chairperson on the able manner in which he has moved the Motion to adopt the Report.
Sir, allow me to take this opportunity to point out a few issues in relation to Zambia’s preparations for the hosting of the 2011 All Africa Games. As it has already been pointed out, the preparations are behind time and this raises a lot of concern to the sportsmen and women of this country.
On the 16th and 17th of June, 2008, your Committee toured various sports facilities in Lusaka, the host city of these games. Your Committee noted that most of the construction and rehabilitation works had not yet started despite your Committee having received assurances from the Government that works would have been started by April, 2008. A visit to the Independence Stadium revealed that the rehabilitation works had to be suspended due to lack of finances. A visit to the University of Zambia which will be the residential village for all the sportsmen and women revealed that no construction had started. The same was observed at the Olympics Swimming Pool and at various other sports facilities.
Mr Speaker, your Committee, therefore, urge the Government to serious look into this issue by providing necessary support that will ensure that sports facilities are ready in good time.
Sir, in our assessment of the Constituency Youth Development Fund, your Committee were pleased to note that, indeed, each and every one of the 150 constituencies received the funding. However, a tour of the youth projects that had been supported by the fund revealed that though most were doing fairly well, some were struggling due to various challenges such as limited funds, unstable market, lack of entrepreneur skills and lack of information.
Your Committee would like to urge the Government to continue providing financial support to the youth. This support should be accompanied with training to ensure that the youths are able to adequately meet the various challenges in income generation.
With these few words, Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to contribute on the Motion on the Floor.
Sir, I must begin by saying that I support the Motion. In supporting the Motion, I would like to bring out issues that are very pertinent to the youths. The majority of this population are youths. However, one tends to wonder at the way the Government takes the issues pertaining to the youths into account. Like a Bemba saying that goes “ Impanga ikula, …
Hon. Member: Imiti ikula!
Mr L. J. Mulenga: “Imiti ikula, empanga”.
Laughter
Mr L. J. Mulenga: This means, it is the youths that will be the leaders of this nation.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Mulenga: It is the youths that will make this economy grow. It is the youths that will make this nation to be a great nation. Therefore, there must be great emphasis on the youths. The youths must be given prominence in the way national resources are distributed. At the moment, it is regrettable that youths are just used during campaign time.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, a youth has so many needs, ranging from education, sports and so on and so forth, but the sports facilities in the nation today leave much to be desired.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Mulenga: The sporting facilities in this country are not what it used to be in the days of the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM). The way football was developed is not the way football is being developed today. We will get to a point where we will have no footballers in this nation.
Hon. Government Member: Mmm!
Hon. PF Member: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, today, the way sport is administered in schools leaves much to be desired. We need to be serious and look at the youths and I implore the Government to take youths seriously. When it comes to the Citizens’ Empowerment Fund, we would like the youths to benefit more and not the old people all the time.
With those few remarks, I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mooya (Moomba): Mr Speaker, to start with, I would like to say that I support the Motion and in doing so, I have a few issues to discuss.
Firstly, I listened to what the seconder said regarding the preparations being behind schedule and it is a typically Zambian way of handling issues. It seems we are always behind schedule in whatever we do. Looking at the time remaining, I do not think we will achieve anything. We have two years to go.
Mr Speaker, I was reading two newspapers today where the Supreme Council of Sports in Africa is said to be satisfied with the political will and commitment, but, to me, that is not enough because time is an enemy to us and as I said earlier, I do not think we will achieve anything.
Mr Speaker, I note that in the Report, your Committee talks about speeding up the tender process or fast tracking the tender process and a selective tender was suggested as a way of speeding up the process. My advice here is that this is very welcome as long as it is not abused. We know what selective tender is as compared to open tender, but as long as this is not abused, it is very much welcome.
The other issue I would like to discuss is talent identification. I note that there was a question raised this afternoon and we were told that this exercise had already started. If my memory serves me right, about 460 sports persons have been identified so far. I also heard that training had commenced. My worry after reading the Report is that we only have two years remaining, but one needs five years to train somebody up to an international standard. We only have two years to go and yet to train a sports person, who can bring medals to the country, we need five years. That is why I am saying that we have an uphill battle here and I do not know how we will get out of it.
Mr Speaker, let me comment on the issue of CYDF. In Moomba Constituency, fourteen clubs benefited and out of fourteen clubs, it is only one club that is utilising the funds well. Each of the fourteen clubs got about K3 million and from the fourteen, thirteen clubs misused the money. I carried out an inspection and I made a report to the relevant Government wings, highlighting these problems and also made it known to the youths who misappropriated the funds.
Mr Speaker, one club got K2.5 million for fertiliser. The fertiliser was bought at the council and was taken to the club in the constituency, but while there, it was sold and the money was shared amongst the committee members. All this is in my report.
Mr Speaker, my only worry is that although this is highlighted in my report, to date , I have not seen any action from the Government. I am, therefore, urging the Government, especially the ministry responsible to, please, follow this matter up because this money is treated as a revolving fund. We would like as many youths as possible to have access to this fund. I am further suggesting some legal action against whoever is going to fail to pay back since we would like the money to be recovered.
Mr Speaker, with these few remarks, I would like to wholeheartedly support the Motion on the Floor.
The Deputy Minister in the Vice-President’s Office (Mr Sichilima): Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for allowing me to add my voice to that of others on this very important Motion. As I am graduating out of youth hood, I would like to say something on the Motion. From the onset, I wish to submit that I support the Motion which has been ably moved by my brother and my young brother who is the seconder.
Mr Speaker, as we talk about youths, some of us first take ourselves back to that level. You must firstly understand what a youth is like. The MMD Government has done very well and I would like to put emphasis on the words “very well”. At some stage, we forgot about the youths in terms of sport and saw some of the sports actually disappearing.
Mr Speaker, I would like to register that I have been a sportsman for many years, that is, from primary school. I am sure Hon. Mwamba would agree with me that I was very active …
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sichilima: … because she was my classmate. Hon. Simbao and a few others can attest to this too.
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I used to participate actively in track events, football and volleyball, but what I could not do is swimming, despite having come from a place where there are many waters. I am sure Hon. Munaile would agree with me ...
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: To those who might not know where he obtained that name Munaile, it means cooking for him. As he played football, we would shout “Munaile” to whoever went near him.
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, it is good to have an hon. Member who used to play football in this House. However, these are some of the people who, when time comes to honour people, should not be forgotten. He did his part.
Members: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, we saw some games such as netball go down at one time, but we have seen it actually picking up. Why do I mention netball? Some of these activities keep the youths in our compounds so busy that they even forget about doing other activities that would lead them either to stopping school or having unplanned pregnancies and so on.
Mr Speaker, I am certainly in the class of rugby. I would like to commend the administrators, through the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development. Especially now that there is a new hon. Minister who is very active, I am sure, through the MMD Government, he is going to do his best.
Mr Speaker, to those who may know the game of rugby may not know that at one time, it was only concentrated on the Copperbelt of this country. Now we have seen it grow from the Copperbelt to other towns and have also seen it record quite a number of wins, including participating actively at the internationally level. To the administrators, through the Ministry of Sport, Youth and Child Development, this is a commendable job.
However, Mr Speaker, I would like to say that I am very disappointed with the womenfolk. The Government, including the late President, has done its best in supporting our hero, Esther Phiri, but we are yet to see the zeal from the women in supporting this gallant fighter. In case, our womenfolk do not know, currently, I stand to be corrected, she is the only boxer in the world holding four titles. I would like to repeat that Esther Phiri is holding four titles.
Hon. Member interjected.
Mr Sichilima: After all, she is my traditional wife.
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, on a serious note, I expected the womenfolk to give this woman 100 per cent support at any given time, including that of management. Management in sport is very important because if you let someone loose, you can lose direction. She should know how she is going to settle as she is going towards retirement. I know other people are talking about her getting married and so on, but I am talking about retirement. How is she going to manage herself? How are we going to utilise the skills that she has shown in winning these four titles? Should we start seeing her losing these titles, I can tell you there will be no one to support her if we do not support her. However, this Government has done everything possible to support her. Of course, I can register even single handedly, the Managing Director of National Milling, Mr Cotton, who has done his best in supporting the champion. We need to come in, our mothers, sisters and everybody else, to support her.
Mr Speaker, I know my brother will come and sum it up, but I would like to comment on one issue raised by the previous hon. Member who talked about mismanagement of youth funds. If you cannot thank the MMD Government now for what it has done, then I do not know what we need to do. The Government has done its part by releasing the funds to the constituencies, then it should take an hon. Member of Parliament to come to this House and tell us about mismanagement of the money. That is failure on the part of the Member of Parliament.
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: I would like to repeat, it is failure on the part of the Member of Parliament, …
Hon. Opposition Member: No.
Mr Sichilima: … because even in Kalomo, if there were any malpractices, I am sure the Member of Parliament there would be made answerable.
Mr Muntanga stood up to raise a point of order.
Mr Sichilima: Those are some of the examples, but because we know that in Kalomo, the funds were used properly, …
Mr Muntanga sat down.
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: … the Member of Parliament should be given credit.
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: The point I am trying to make is that Members of Parliament should be the watchdogs of the monies such as the Youth Fund that is released by the Government.
Having talked about the youth funds, Mr Speaker, I would like to appeal to the Members of Parliament that sports knows no age.
Mr Munaile: Yes.
Mr Sichilima: We need to participate in, at least, one way or the other.
I am sure, Mr Speaker, you say we should not debate ourselves, but I would like to mention that Hon. Simbao has been very actively sponsoring a tournament in his constituency for many years and I have followed suit. The hon. Member. for Chienge Constituency is one such who is very active in sponsoring the youths in his constituency. I would like to put it on record that these are some of the areas where we have seen the youths engaged and taught properly. Why do I say that we need to participate in sports? Sport itself is a profession. We do not need to go on an anthill and start saying, “Money in the pocket, money in the pocket” to engage in sport.
Mr Speaker, I was privileged to go and see my son in Russia …
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: … where he is studying engineering in RostovOnDon. As you may be aware, Russia is a country where there are very few blacks and I was probably the only black man in the area that I went to. When I was asked where I come from, I said Zambia, but the people there did not know where Zambia is in the world. However, as we started talking, somebody said, “Aah! Gift Kampamba, Gift Kampamba!” I must say that I was very surprised because I did not even know that Gift Kampamba had played in Russia.
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: When I went to RostovOnDon, where Gift Kampamba played, I found that the young man had done us proud. The people there know Zambia. One cannot talk about Zambia without mentioning Gift Kampamba. While there, the young man led a such a good life that he left the flag of Zambia flying very high.
Mr Speaker, I was also in Algeria, …
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: … but despite being an hon. Minister, nobody knew me, but the people knew Kenneth Malitoli. It has been some years since Kenneth Malitoli played in Tunisia, but T-shirts bearing his portrait are still selling in Algeria.
Hon. Opposition Members: How do you know it is him?
Mr Sichilima: Because I am a sportsman as well.
Mr Speaker, it is nice to be associated with some of these names. I am sure the hon. Minister of Communications and Transport can attest to the fact that when she was in Egypt, she found that names such as Kalusha Bwalya were so well known that they were aligned to Zambia. Of course, looking at what people like Kalusha Bwalya have achieved, it makes sense for us, hon. Members of Parliament, to participate in youths’ activities and bring more Kalusha Bwalyas into sports.
Hon. Members: Munailes as well.
Mr Sichilima: One cannot say that sporting careers are for Grade 7 failures and the like because Kalusha Bwalya is a well-educated person. He played football and brought honour to this country. My appeal to my fellow hon. Members of Parliament, regardless of where their constituencies are, is to promote sporting activities so that we can have another Munaile in the House.
Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!
Laughter{mospagebreak}
Mr Sichilima: Therefore, let us not trivialise what the Government is doing. I know the ongoing programme is premised on the fact that we should engage more professional sportsmen and women. One of my dreams is for our national football team to, at least, win the Africa Cup of Nations and bring it to Zambia before some of us retire. As the game of football is growing and heavily supported, such honours should be seeing their way to Zambia.
Hon. Member: Finally.
Mr Sichilima: No, I still have time.
Mr Speaker, we, as politicians, like one hon. Member said, should not use the youths only in election campaigns and it would be very sad to hear if they were used.
Hon. MMD Members laughed.
Mr Sichilima: As for the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD), we incorporated them in activities which are meant to build their future.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sichilima: Sir, this is the reason you have seen very active and able young hon. Ministers and hon. Members of Parliament on this side.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Sichilima: It is very sad to see very few youths in the Patriotic Front (PF), but I am glad to see that there are very good administrators in the United Party for National Development (UPND) …
Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: … to motivate the youths. Hon. Mooya is one such administrator. He has just debated about the youths, which means that he includes them in very good activities rather than using them for campaigns and rioting.
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, it is very dangerous to use youths in such a way because we will have a vacuum of leadership if we spoil them. Let us develop them with good intentions so that they become not just leaders, but good leaders to take over from some of us who we will be retiring.
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: Mr Speaker, I have said this before, but I would like to remind my colleagues that I am a grandfather. I have, therefore, graduated from being a youth. One of my daughters has given me three grandchildren and another one, one.
Laughter
Mr Sichilima: Therefore, I really qualify to talk about the development of the youths. We should develop the future generation because that is where the future of Zambia lies.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Serious debaters do not need 15 minutes to debate this Motion.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Speaker: Let me have those serious debaters.
Hon. Member for Chifunabuli, you may take the Floor.
Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, I am grateful for the opportunity to support the Motion that is on the Floor of the House. I would also like to thank the mover of the Motion, Hon. Muyanda, for a job well done.
Sir, I consider the youths and children of this country as the future of our nation. I think the way we handle the youths of our country will be sending a message to the rest of the world whether we mean to make Zambia continue existing and vibrant and make the next generation of Zambians compete in the world of today. It is, therefore, necessary and essential that we look at the problems that are dogging the youths of our country and begin to find solutions to their problems.
Sir, what do I see as the problems among the youths and children in our country? I will mention but a few. Firstly, there is the issue of illiteracy; lack of education. The problem is that we do not have enough classroom places for these youths. Even if all the schools were filled-up, we would still have some of our children not attending school because there are not enough places for them. Obviously, what that means is that in the next generation of leaders and Zambians at large, we will have people who will be uneducated. We will have young men and women who will grow up not knowing how to read or write and consequently, incapable of meeting the challenges of the future.
Sir, secondly, we have a problem of an extremely high child mortality rate in our country. What that means is that we are losing the future generation. The Bemba adage, which has already been mentioned that “imiti ikula, empanga” literally means that in order to have a forest, there must be trees growing in that forest. However, when we have a situation where our young people and children are dying in infancy, certainly we are reducing the future population of the country and may not have adequate human resource to carry the banner of our country forward. This must be an issue of concern for all of us who are parents and Zambians. However, even worse is the fact that when our youths complete school, they do not find jobs.
There are graduates roaming the streets of our country hoping that they will find jobs created by the foreigners who come to invest in the country. However, I hold a different view from that. Every investor who comes in the country does not come to employ everyone. In fact, they ensure that they minimise the number of people to employ so that they maximise their profits. This is simple logic of every investor. However, somehow, we run things in the country on the imagination that jobs will be created by those who will come to invest. I think the challenge is on the Government to create jobs for Zambians.
You can enable some people to come and invest in the country, but you cannot remove the responsibility to create jobs for the Zambian people from you, as a Government.
Mr Speaker, today, we see our youths congesting the streets again. At one time, we cleared the streets of Lusaka and it was very nice to walk through them, but the story is totally different today. We have gone back to the situation that existed before. It seems all we know is to do what I might call stop-gap-measures, that is, dealing with the problem as we see it. The moment we see the problem receding, we sit back, thinking that people have learnt their lessons and will get out of the streets on their own. There is a need for vigilance and to ensure that the programmes we put in place are not short-term measures, but rather lasting solutions. Otherwise, we will find ourselves spending monies on the same problems time and time again.
Youths are roaming the streets not because they like to do so. Therefore, I would like to urge the Government to look into the reasons why our youths are roaming the streets. Some of the reasons I have given obviously apply, but even more alarming is when you find individuals who have gone through college or university roaming the streets. Then there is a bigger question we must ask and the question is: Are we training our people correctly, are we educating them to become independent or do we have a mode of education that simply produces individuals who wait for jobs? That is the challenge for the ministry involved with education. It is also a challenge of finding the best ways of training our people.
Mr Speaker, I would like to suggest that the best educated individuals are those who graduate from college and think of how they can make ends meet. They do not depend on the Government to provide for them, but rather depend on themselves and the knowledge they have acquired to look after their own lives. There is something wrong with an education system which continues to channel out graduates who are incapable of looking after themselves after their education is completed. There is something wrong with the system of education which is unable to create self-motivated entrepreneurs.
Mr Speaker, a classic example of what is happening in the country is what is taking place in our ministries. We have had capacity building programmes in the ministries for the last fifteen or twenty years. How can you build capacity for fifteen years? For goodness sake, if people cannot learn, get them out and find other people. There is something wrong with the way we do things in this country. How much money has this country wasted on capacity building in various institutions?
Mr Speaker, I have been in Government and I will take the Ministry of Health as an example. There was a time when the World Bank refused to give us money because we did not like the terms and conditions thereto attached. We had to find money to buy drugs for our people in hospitals. Hon. Nkandu Luo and I agreed to suspend the seminars and capacity building programmes for three months. The amazing outcome was that within those three months, we were able to serve enough money to buy drugs in our hospitals for the rest of the year. This is how much money is wasted on some of these programmes.
My advice is that, if people cannot learn, get rid of them and put other people who are willing to learn. We cannot go on capacity building individuals who have lost the resolve to live when we have youths in the country who are full of energy to carry on.
Laughter
Mr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, when you get to my age, you begin to find it difficult to touch books and be in a classroom.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwansa: There is a time for learning and a time at which the mind says I am tired. All this, we should take into account. In other words, there is a need for a visionary approach to how we handle the youths of our country. We stand to lose in the long run if the youths are not educated enough to meet the challenges of the modern world. We are looking at issues in a rather casual manner.
Let me give you another example of sports in our country. I think that those who have survived as sports people, both men and women, have survived because of their desire to survive in those environments. Where is the sports academy in this country, forty years after independence? Surely, we must look at sport as a career for them and turn help to understand that their livelihoods depend on what they know about the sport in which they engage. What has our Government done in the last forty-four years of our living? Absolutely nothing. The challenge to the Government is simply: What is the problem; do we have a visionary approach to the things we do; or do we just live life as it comes? That is the challenge that we need to face. We need to teach our youths to look to sport as a career.
Mr Speaker, I used to be a footballer, of course, not at the level of my honourable Colleague (Hon. Munaile), but what I remember is that I played soccer because I loved to play it, but nobody taught me that it was an important institution and I could make a carrier out of it. I had a lot of interest in soccer, but in the long run, because the mindset was not right, I could not carry on a soccer carrier. However, there are people who have taken soccer seriously and have to depend on soccer for their livelihood.
Mr Speaker, if these people totally depend on soccer, how much do they know about the career they have taken and who is educating them about these things?
Mr Speaker, I would like to end by saying two things:
We should not let youths roam the streets of our country or allow a situation where because youths have nothing to do, we begin to use them as politicians to foster our political career. It is totally wrong, unacceptable and irresponsible.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwansa: These are the future of our country. We cannot allow a situation where the very future of our country is being undermined by those of us who, in any case, do not have long to stay on this earth.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mwansa: We need to ensure that the youths of this country have a future and hope; and a country to look forward to as well as parents, who are ourselves, who take great consideration of them. We should also look at them as a future of our country and ensure that they grow up to be responsible citizens who are ready to carry the banner of this country. If we do not do that, and that generation to come blames us, we must hold our heads down in shame because we have the chance, challenge and ability to make things better for the next generation.
I thank you, Sir.
Dr Chishimba (Kasama Central): Mr Speaker, it is said that “mu mushi wansala tamubula buwelewele”.
Laughter
Dr Chishimba: What that simply means is that in a society where the living conditions continue to plummet, there is no dignity among the people. In such a society, you have on one end, a leadership that would want to thrive on the suffering of the people and on the other, a people who, out of hunger, will continue to fall into the trap of the leaders.
Mr Speaker, this was the case with the Youth Empowerment Fund. When the MMD Government announced the introduction of the Youth Empowerment Fund (YEF), young people in the country began to say that for the very first time they would see their living conditions improve. That was towards the election period.
Mr Speaker, what would prevent young people and all other political stakeholders in this country from believing that the YEF was introduced for political expedience? I pose this question because a couple of years later, the fund was abandoned. The question which remains to be answered is: where is the K40 billion which was promised to the young people in this country?
Mr V. Mwale: Unachinja liti?
Dr Chishimba: Mr Speaker, there is an urgent need for a forensic audit so that this House can be told how that money was used. To echo what Hon. Mwansa, the Member for Chifunabuli, has just said, we have this propensity and culture where astronomical amounts of money are allocated to programmes that promise a future to the people and yet those resources never reach the intended people. In Zambia, we continue to see a culture where those resources are used by the people in higher management positions.
Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!
Dr Chishimba: Mr Speaker, this forces me to ask a number of pending questions on whether the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission will deliver. Already, we have seen a creation of heavy structures with huge salaries on top. Again, we see a culture where they go to the communities to try and organise capacity building workshops and open up more delivery centres and so forth. These trends will continue and evidence for thereof exists.
Mr Speaker, when you do a trend analysis, you will establish that this is going to continue for many years to come. However, let me warn that in every society, there are two opposing forces. There is a group of the oppressed and a group of the oppressors. At some point, the oppressed will always rise and oppress the oppressors. This is the reason the people of Zambia have been demanding change and the demand continues.
Mr Speaker, unless we see a practical change and pragmatism in the way we design programmes, as a Government, the people of Zambia will continue to demand to have a Government which is going to deliver and be created in order to deliver that which they demand.
Hon. Opposition Member: Bauze!
Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!
Dr Chishimba: Mr Speaker, it is very clear that for seventeen years of the MMD rule, we have seen a culture where several programmes are birthed and abandoned down the line.
Mr V. Mwale: Conversion!
Dr Chishimba: Mr Speaker, initially, when the Youth Development Policy was formulated in Zambia, in which I took part as a youth activist and leader at that time, we were called as young people to make an input into the draft document . We proposed that there was a need for the Government to strengthen the role of the National Youth Development Council (NYDC) so that it could have structures at the grassroots level in order to provide information to young people.
Mr Speaker, as it has been said by the Chairman in his speech, lack of information is one of the major constraints to the accessing of funds or whatever services set for young people.
Mr Speaker, young people gave a timely warning that if the NYDC was not empowered to reach out to fellow young people, youth unemployment rates, among other problems, would continue to skyrocket in this country.
Indeed, Mr Speaker, as I said, today, we are talking about seventeen years of the MMD rule and the NYDC is still in the Report. We said it in the early 90s that NYDC was not well spread and it is also there in the Report.
Mr Speaker, the question is what type of leaders do we have? The problem we have in this country is not lack of ideas, but that of a visionary leadership which is about the people. Leadership should not be about ourselves, but about the people who put us in power.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chishimba: Mr Speaker, we also continue to see a trend where whenever any kind of empowerment programme is designed in Zambia, accessibility of funds is made practically impossible by the creation of guidelines which makes it difficult for the people to access the funds.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chishimba: You ask young people to develop project proposals which they would not even be able to do because empirical evidence shows that most of our young people are shunted out of the education system because there are not enough schools. Not only that, Mr Speaker, but also because most of the young people in this country are not able to reach the highest levels of education due to resource constraints or the very fact that they come from homes that are living below the poverty datum line.
Mr Speaker, these are the realities that we need to face. If you create guidelines that require young people, the indigence of society, to write proposals which are so complex, how do you expect them to access the funds? When they write proposals and take them to the so-called technical officers, they tell them that because you have not put any means of verification and no indicators, this proposal lacks passion and is thrown out. These are the young people with brilliant ideas. The Report demonstrates, clearly, that there are certain youth groups that were given as little as K1.2 million and are able to run a restaurant in Kaoma.
Mr Speaker, the question, therefore, is: for how long are we going to keep our eyes off the everyday realities that we face? For how long are we going to avoid these uncomfortable truths that we face in our country today?
Mr Speaker, not only that, we also continue to see a culture which unfortunately does not only apply to the Youth Empowerment Fund, but other areas of Government programming, for instance the Constituency Development Fund (CDF), among other programmes.
Mr Speaker, the Report says that there is a conflict of interests between the District Commissioners and the local authorities. It is very dangerous to create programmes or advocate for change in policies when the Government is not ready.
The Government has been talking about decentralisation for many years now. On one hand, you are talking about decentralisation, and yet on the other, you are doing the direct opposite of what you are talking about. The role of District Commissioners needs to be clearly defined in this country.
Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!
Dr Chishimba: Who says that the District Commissioner owns the people in any district? We see these people continue to politicise development programmes which are a lifeline to many people.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chishimba: As we continue to politicise, our people will continue to die while we live in luxury. These are the realities, as I said earlier, which we need to face and boot out of our way if we are to put this country where she deserves.
Mr Speaker another problem that has been reported is that in very few cases were funds have been disbursed, there was a delay because council meetings were not held. How do you expect the local authorities or councils to hold meetings as regularly as possible when they are under-funded?
Mr Speaker, another way to look at this issue is by asking this question: How do you expect the local authorities to run their programmes efficiently and effectively if they are not adequately financed? Of course, the answer is in the negative. Therefore, there is a need to ensure that resources reach these local authorities so that they can hold meetings as regularly as possible. As I said, this is not just for the Youth Empowerment Fund, which, in fact, is not there, but for other development funds that have been created by the Government.
Mr Speaker, as I conclude, let me emphasise that everywhere in the world, the non-participation of young people in development has always led to non-equitable national development. There is no country on earth which has developed without the participation of young people.
Sir, even in revolutions, be it independence, young people played a critical role. Some of the men and women who are sitting in this Parliament were young people at the time of independence. There is Hon. Munkombwe and Hon. Mwaanga in this House, among others. These were young people who gave their lives to the conception of our country in liberty. We cannot afford to ignore this very important segment of population. As it has been submitted, young people constitute about 70 per cent of the population. Therefore, there is no developmental programme which is going to succeed without deliberately taking young people into account.
Mr Speaker, likewise in the agricultural sector, there is a need to invest more in targeting young farmers. I would like to submit that the issue of young people is cross cutting. Every sector, be it commerce and trade, agriculture or science and technology, must deliberately focus on the young people. If we do not do this, we are going to continue seeing a situation where problems of young people are addressed superficially. If this continues, people will continue to demand change in this nation.
Mr Speaker, it is heart-breaking to see that countries which were poorer than Zambia at independence, are far richer than Zambia today. A number of them are middle-income countries today. Look at Malaysia, Singapore and India. Today, India is one country which is being considered a threat to the United States of America (USA). President Bush called for a summit to address the financial crisis in the USA which has affected the whole world and India was among the top twenty countries that were invited. Therefore, even though India is called a Third World country today, it is making strides and will soon be controlling the world economy.
Sir, how has India managed to improve its economy? As I have said before, India clearly defined its development path in the area of youth development. We need to come up with deliberate programmes to address issues relating to the youth . For instance, India came up with several programmes in agriculture. One of these programmes was called the Youth Agricultural and Employment Creation Programme. In the world of commerce and trade, India also introduced the Youths, Trade Employment Creation Programme.
Mr Speaker, every sector needs to have programmes that specifically target young people. We call such programmes target population programmes or target area programmes, depending on the area and locality where the programme is to be implemented.
Sir, however, we are failing to provide leadership and that is the biggest constraint which this country is facing. There is the Fifth National Development Plan and the Vision 2030, but when it comes to designing programmes for implementation, we see programmes which are totally disjoined from these documents which are prepared at a great cost to the taxpayers of this country. Can you say that we are serious with what we are doing?
Mr Speaker, if this continues, if the MMD Government does not put its house in order, and they begin to prepare for a change of Government because this Administration has only two years to prove its worth, come 2011, the PF is …
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chishimba: … going to run the Government so that we can lead the way and show the people that we mean action.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Chishimba: I thank you, Sir.
Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, in supporting the Motion, I would like to begin by congratulating my brother, Hon. Chipungu, for a well deserved promotion. I have no doubt in my mind that he is going to deliver on the functions of his office diligently.
Mr Speaker, as a Member of Parliament from the rural areas, I always lamented the plight of the rural youths. I always wonder when this Government will make it their priority to provide sport or recreation infrastructure for the rural youths who have nothing, if anything at all.
Mr Speaker, recreation provides relaxation and freshness of mind which, in turn, creates initiative. The rural youths have been condemned to perpetual idleness. Is it there fault that they are found in rural areas? Often times, we talk about these issues in this House. Everyday, we hear about sports facilities being built in Lusaka or the Copperbelt, but we hear about nothing for the children in the rural areas. What have they done wrong? They have done nothing wrong. They are found in rural areas by God’s design. It is not their fault.
Therefore, I would like to remind the Government not to continue abdicating their role of providing such services for the youths in rural areas. Hon. Dr Chishimba and Hon. Mwansa, including other hon. Members who contributed on this Motion have been eloquent in their debates. I do not want to take away from them, but I must mention that the rural youths have been neglected. I think it is time that the MMD Government made it a priority to provide services for the rural youths. They should not continue to run away from this responsibility.
Sir, every time we talk about this issue, they say, “No, you, Members of Parliament from those areas, do not do anything”. The fact that I come from a rural constituency, and I raise this concern, it does not become my responsibility to provide those services to the youths. It is incumbent upon the Government to provide services to the rural youths just as much as they provide for the youths in urban areas. I know that most of the Members of Parliament provide things such as footballs, jerseys and caps, like we all do from our little resources over which we are always insulted, but the Government must be cognisant of the fact that they have a bigger role to play than what we can do as Members of Parliament.
Mr Speaker, with these few words, I support the Motion.
The Minister of Sport, Youth and Child Development (Mr Chipungu): Mr Speaker, thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to this Motion on the Floor. I totally support the Report and wish to commend my brother, the Chairperson, Hon. Muyanda and his Committee for a job well done. I also wish to thank various hon. Members of Parliament who have ably debated this Motion.
Mr Speaker, I would like to begin by thanking the people of the North-Western Province in general and all the hon. Members of Parliament from the North-Western Province in particular, for the support rendered to me during the period I worked as a Provincial Minister. I am very confident that this promotion is a reflection of that support.
Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I have all the reasons to believe that my successor, Hon. Mulyata, will equally be given support for him to discharge his duties diligently.
Mr Speaker, I would like to make a few comments on what has been debated by the hon. Members of Parliament in this House. It is not true that we only use the youths in campaigns as alluded to by the hon. Member of Parliament for Bwacha. In the MMD Government, we do not do that. If anything, youths come forward in order to participate so that they become future leaders. This can be attested to by the number of hon. Ministers who are youths like Hon. Taima and Hon. Mubika, just to mention a few.
Sir, if the hon. Member for Bwacha was listening, he would have recalled that when my hon. Deputy Minister was answering the question, he talked about talent identification. We began this programme this year and so far, almost 400 personnel in the sports fraternity or rather participants have been identified and the programme is doing very well. Very shortly, these will go into training in order to prepare for the 2011 games. Therefore, it is not correct to say that we are neglecting this part.
Mr Speaker, I agree with the hon. Member of Parliament for Moomba. The programme is behind schedule, but I would like to assure this House that all is being done to ensure that the programme is on schedule so that by 2011, the All Africa Games are held in Lusaka. I am aware about the tender processes, but we have to follow rules as they are laid down. If we have procedures, why should we make shortcuts? You will be the same people who will start condemning the Government. We are aware that most of us have friends with little business contracts, but we want to leave the question of awarding tenders to the professionals. You may see a fault here and there, but I would like to assure you that, in fact, everything is in place.
Mr Speaker, on the issue of misuse of the Constituency Youth Development Fund, I think this country has got laws in place. If someone misuses the funds or steals money, you know where to report him. You go to the law enforcement officers and these people will appear in court. The law must take its own course. Mind you, hon. Members, we are all hon. Members of Parliament and we must take special interest in this money because this is what will determine our performance. Our people in the constituencies will judge us on this basis. Are we fostering developmental programmes in our areas? If the people are going to steal this money, I am afraid, they will be verily judged.
Sir, I wish to thank Hon. Sichilima for his elaborate debate on this matter. I also would like to thank the hon. Member for Chifunabuli for his contribution. I am happy to learn that you were an hon. Minister. You know, when you are an hon. Minister, you might see certain things in one way and when you are outside you see things differently. I would like to assure you that a lot is being done.
Mr Speaker, for instance, on the question of illiteracy, I agree that there is a problem of illiteracy amongst youths in the Ministry of Community Development and Social Services. It is incumbent upon us to encourage these children to go to school. I am aware that most of them do not want to go for further training when they complete their Grade 12. The most important point is that we must encourage them to go for further training and learn a skill. When you have a skill, even if you are not working, one day, you will find a job. If you are a mere Grade 12, you cannot find a job.
Mr Speaker, what I am saying is that we must take special interest in the youths in our respective constituencies. Let us encourage our youths to go to school and get a trade so that they can be able to develop this country. That is the truth. We have so many youths in this country. In fact, under my ministry, we have developed a number of skill centres. It is now almost a policy to ensure that these skill centres are constructed or established in the districts. This is another way of trying to encourage the youth to acquire a skill.
Sir, the hon. Minister of Health has been ably articulating the issue of child mortality in this House and I am sure for a very long time.
Mr Speaker, my young brother, the hon. Member of Parliament for Kasama Central, spoke so well. I would, therefore, like to assure him that the Office of the District Commissioner is a very important office. In fact, no Government will ever come into power and remove that office. I was once in that office and I have worked in areas that are on the border of this country. I am talking about a border with Zimbabwe and Mozambique. I know that this office exists there too. It is just the titles that differ. Others call them District Secretaries (DSs) and others call them DCs, but they are there. The whole idea is to take control of the Central Government and co-ordinate all these activities. I think denouncing that office is not fair at all. You may differ with them, but the most important factor is that even if you do that, you iron out issues and at the end of the day, work as one.
Sir, let me simply say that if you have ideas on how best we can look after our youths, the doors to our offices are open. Please, come forward and share your ideas. As you can see, this Government is all-inclusive. You are free to come and see the hon. Ministers. I have seen some of you coming to consult. We have never stopped you from coming because we would like to hear what you have for us.
Mr Speaker, there is an important issue concerning the hosting of 2011 games. I know this is a very serious issue. All I can say is that I am aware about this issue and it is a priority at my ministry. I know that we have only two years to go. I have read documents that have been prepared by my predecessor and Hon. Cifire who has been there. They have done quite a lot in conjunction with COJA. What is remaining is to formalise those procedures and I am very confident that in the next few days, construction of hostels and sports complexes will begin. Some of you might have seen something like a village and you do not know what it is. You might have seen a fence around the University of Zambia. That is the beginning. I am, therefore, asking for support from you, ladies and gentlemen.
Hon. Members: Hon. Members!
Mr Chipungu: Mr Speaker, I withdraw those words. I am asking that hon. Members of Parliament support us instead of condemning us.
Mr Speaker, let me conclude by commending the hon. Member for Sinazongwe, who is a very strong man. I would like to thank you, Hon. Muyanda. I have known you for a very long time and have so much respect for you. You have done tremendous work. The Report is excellent. I have read the Report, and it will actually be the basis on which I will get into the office. I will need to consult this Report so that together with my colleagues here, we put it to good use.
I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to wind up this Motion. In winding up, Sir, may I once more take this opportunity to congratulate my brother, Hon. Chipungu, on being elevated from Deputy Minister to full Cabinet Minister. Indeed, this arises from hard work. Promotions do not just come about. They come about through hard work and so I say congratulations to him.
Mr Speaker, I would also like to thank your office, and indeed, other hon. Members of Parliament who have debated. There are those who might not have debated, but the positive approach with which they supported this Motion is, indeed, testimony that we are marching together in this august House.
Mr Speaker, with these few words, I thank you.
Question put and agreed to.{mospagebreak}
REPORT OF THE COMMITTEE ON AGRICULTURE AND LANDS
(Debate Resumed)
Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Mr Speaker, with those few words I said on Thursday and yesterday, I beg to support the Report.
I thank you, Sir
Laughter
Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I rise to support the Report of the Committee on Agriculture and Lands, specifically, the part that deals with the creation of the Ministry of Livestock Development and Fisheries. However, before I do so, I would like to congratulate those on your right, the Executive, firstly, on winning the last elections.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, as United Party for National Development (UPND) we accepted the victory of His Excellency, Mr Rupiah Banda …
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Major Chizhyuka: …as President of this country. We, therefore, congratulate him accordingly. I would also like to congratulate, in particular, the Vice-President. I have watched him perform his duties as hon. Minister of Justice and I think that his calmness, intellect and calculated decisions will add a lot of value, particularly, to the Vice-President’s Question Time.
Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!
Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, while I give blanket congratulations to everyone, I would also like to congratulate Hon. Ms Kapwepwe in particular. The reason I am doing so is to add elasticity to the remark by the hon. Member for Bweengwa, who yesterday said that the Kapwepwe name was linked directly to the history of politics in his constituency. I would only like to say that he said that because of the hon. Member who once stood in Bweengwa, the old lion, Mr Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula, the former President of the Africa National Congress. However, in stating this fact, and in extending the elasticity of that assertion, I also wish to state that Mr Nkumbula came from the constituency which I now represent and won with a landslide victory in 2006 and where I will also have a landslide victory in 2011.
Laughter
Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, the point which I would like to make is that there was a time when the old politician, Mr Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe, Bashi Mpundu, was hounded out of the Government House by tribal hounds and had no place to go to. Mr Kapwepwe, who was belittled by people looked around in the streets of Kabwata, but did not find accommodation. At the lowest ebb for him and his family, Mr Kapwepwe, the great leader, the founding father of our politics, looked around to his colleagues and tribesmen for accommodation, but did not find any. Those who spoke his language were just too scared to even suggest a place for him to go.
Mr Speaker: Order!
I would like the hon. Member to debate the Motion.
Laughter
Major Chizhyuka: In winding up this congratulatory remark to Hon. Kapwepwe, it was Mr Harry Nkumbula who provided a house for Mr Kapwepwe and his family in Libala. He had to vacate his house to go and live in Lusaka West, in Makeni, in order that …
Mr Speaker: Order! Come to the Motion, please.
Laughter
Major Chizhyuka: It is important to remind ourselves that even as we talk about livestock development in this country, the wishes and aspirations of the politicians of old, who founded this country, such as Mr Simon Mwansa Kapwepwe, …
Mr Speaker: Order! The hon. Member for Lusaka Central.
Laughter
Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, much as I hate to gain from my friend’s demise, I would like to start by saying that I support the Motion and commend the Committee very much, in particular, the idea of taking one problem area of animal disease and dealing with it in depth. It is too easy in agriculture to just jump from one issue to the other and end up in maize and fertiliser and not actually achieve what you are trying to achieve. In the last forty-four years, …
Mr Speaker: Order!
Business was suspended from 1815 hours to 1830 hours.
[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]
Mr Speaker: Order!
When I suspended business, the hon. Member for Lusaka Central was contributing on the motion moved by the hon. Member for Kalomo Central, on this year’s Report by the Committee on Agriculture and Lands.
The hon. Member for Lusaka Central may continue.
Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, I was saying that in the recent years, this country has become something of a museum of animal diseases for people interested in seeing them full blown. Not only cattle, but all other domestic animals, including fish, get diseases in Zambia and the ministry does not seem to have the specialists to attend to or even diagnose the diseases properly.
Sir, we should refresh our memories a little bit on the traditional systems. By tradition, I mean the colonial times and the post-colonial systems that were used in this country to control some of the major diseases such as the corridor disease, otherwise known as East Coast Fever or denkete, which was one of the tick-borne diseases that was controlled with compulsory free dipping. I would like to emphasise that it used to be compulsory because everybody had to do it. If one person did not dip his or her cattle and they mingled with the ones that had been dipped, the disease could be transmitted. Therefore, it has to be a uniform and universal system. It has to be compulsory. The state then was that medicines for the dip tanks and the dip tanks were free and provided by the Government.
The administrative arrangement, at least, in the colonial times was that the traditional authorities of those days called native authorities, the chiefs and the headmen, were the ones who ensured that the villagers complied with the law on communal grazing,. They imposed fines of maybe one goat were not dipped or if someone tried to avoid the necessary dipping. It worked. Since then, we have struggled with animal diseases because traditional authority ceased to become part of the Government administration effectively, at least, in as far as agriculture was concerned with the breaking up of the native authorities. We also started to see strange ideas from the West. Donors came in and started telling us that people must pay for the medicine for their cattle. However, when you have to pay and make Hon. Muntanga pay to dip his cattle and mix them with mine when he has no money. We also got these cattle clubs and all sorts of ideas, very high theoretical ideas, and books written about how to control disease, and yet we knew how to control the animal diseases. We had done it and seen it. It was very simple and straight forward. Besides, it was not particularly expensive. The chemicals required to kill ticks are very cheap on a pour dose basis.
The other day, Hon. Shakafuswa was saying there is not enough money to go round and do everything in Zambia. I would estimate two or three days of the NCC’s running expenses would be adequate for the annual dose of tick chemicals.
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Mukanga: Good!
Dr Scott: It is not a cost issue, but of seriousness. Have we got a memory to remember how we used to control these things and how we prepared to impose the kind of discipline which is required to save our animals?
Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Scott: The animal numbers have dropped very dramatically …
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Scott: … even in the Southern Province, but particularly so in the Western Province. This is so, firstly, because of lack of a system and the introduction of Non-Governmental Organisations (NGOs) and secondly, we cannot even fix the cordon fence in the Western Province with our lack of simple straight forward discipline to governance. It has to be done in some convoluted way and not while the cordon line with Angola is still open. Meanwhile, the Angolan cattle are bringing Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP) this side. Or maybe by now we are re-exporting it. I do not know what is happening.
Of course, the other two strong weapons that the Veterinary Department or Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives used to have or still have, in principle, is quarantine or movement control. If part of a district has Foot and Mouth Disease affecting cattle, you have to do something. One of the simplest and first things you can do is try and stop the fire spreading. That means imposing controls on movement. However, if those controls on movement are going to cost people money, they will not comply. Therefore, you need the character as well as the stick. You need to compensate them for the losses incurred by getting rid of the animals themselves or selling them at a lower price locally. Again, it requires the will of the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning as well as the will of the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives and even of everybody concerned. to say, “Let us sort this problem out!” We know how it is done. It has been done so many times. It is a very straightforward matter.
The other powerful technique, apart from vaccinations and things like that, is pre-emptive slaughter. For example, if you have sick animals with certain diseases, …
Major Chizhyuka: Swine!
Dr Scott: … like swine, …
Laughter
Dr Scott: … diseases which have no cure or prevention, then what you are supposed to do, like everywhere in the world except in Zambia, is draw a circle round those animals and kill every member of that species inside that circle.
Hon. PF Members: Yes! Hear, hear!
Dr Scott: Again, in every country of the world, it does not work just to use that stick, you have to use a character and say, the innocent animals, the pre-emptively killed ones, will be compensated for by something close to the market price.
Mr Mukanga: Yes!
Dr Scott: Otherwise people will not co-operate. We have the Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP) in the Southern Province, but we are seeing it now because the system is not working. It is infuriating to think of the compensating exercise. In practice, the ministry does not release the money to compensate them and so, people just do not comply. They move livestock by night, breaking all the movement controls and the slaughter order. The solution is very simple if you do it properly.
Mr Mukanga: It is true!
Dr Scott: It has been worked out in 200 countries for 200 years. Keeping animals healthy is not a problem unless you really are not serious and you want to see all these things in their raw form.
Now, there was a point made by the seconder of the Motion that certain groups of people consider themselves immune to these kinds of quarantines and similar animal disease control measures. I think I have told a story in this House before and I will just remind you briefly. Denkete or East Coast Fever came onto the African platter with a herd of cattle that Cecil Rhodes himself imported. He imported it from Australia and walked the cattle up from the East Coast to Mbala. The cattle acquired, on the road, this new disease which no one had seen before and which they called East Coast Fever. They knew what they should have done. They knew that they should have shot every last one as well as any other cattle that had come in contact with the imported ones, but because it was Bwana Rhodes or Boss Rhodes, …
Laughter
Dr Scott: … they allowed the cattle to live and mix with healthy cattle, infecting them with ticks. Today, almost exactly 100 years later, we are sitting with the results of that failure to apply the law or the rules as they existed at the time.
Mr Buckle will be very happy to hear that the outbreak of the African swine fever in 1993 in which I was a victim was caused by an Apamwamba bringing in a live pig from the Eastern Province where pigs are restricted by virtue of movement through the movement control on the Luangwa Bridge. However, because he was such a big shot, he said he would not handover the pig to them to slaughter and he brought it to Lusaka East where it spread from one farm to two farms and three farms and then we had to wipe it out. That is what happened.
Mr Speaker, unless things like that happen, you get a situation that you are now getting in the North-Western Province where you cannot move a pig anywhere because there was swine fever here and there and the whole thing instead of becoming an asset, an economic engine for wealth, the whole species simply becomes a nuisance and something that you cannot properly market. Therefore, I would like to emphasise that it is an issue of discipline and the people in the Ministry know perfectly well how it all works. The people who slaughtered my pigs are still there. They know how to control diseases in this country, but it takes seriousness and political will, not technical will because you do not need any consultants from America or Japan or here because we know how it needs to be done technically. It needs political will and seriousness to ensure nobody can say he is important and not subject to the regulation. That attitude has to go.
Mr Speaker, on restocking, the hon. Member for Namwala said that in many areas of the Southern Province, one of the consequences of the disease is the loss of communal stock which has seen the growth of what you would now call informal commercial ranching where you are getting larger and larger sections of land unfenced in some sections so that the animals can be kept again by the Apamwambas inside their home, perhasps, I do not know. The small villagers are again feeling the pressure of these enclosures where larger and larger holdings are being created to the exclusion of the small villagers who are communal farmers.
Mr Speaker, we are very luck in this country that we did not get Independence in which we inherited a situation such as Zimbabwe inherited because the number of White settlers in this country was much less and the country was much bigger. However, we can easily create the same problem for ourselves, not just with foreign investors, even local investors. We can easily create land pressure. It creeps up on you. It does not happen over night, but you have Tongas now from Kalomo trekking to Itezhi-Tezhi looking for land. We have all sorts of symptoms of land pressure building up and we surely want to pre-empt this. We do not want to end up with an inflation rate of a quadrillion per cent because suddenly, we have to do something about the problem of equity and inequity in our own society. Therefore, I would like to urge the hon. Minister who unfortunately left immediately we started talking about his areas. I would like him to really look into these indirect effects on land pressure we are getting from animal diseases, from using urea to excess and any other practices contributing to the creation of pressure.
I think the Committee will do very well to follow in the same footsteps and select a single subject again next time, maybe, the maize and fertiliser marketing. That is an area where we need to be very careful because some of us with longer memory remember what brought the One-Party State down. We remember what brought Kaunda down. It was the maize and fertiliser marketing. It was this constant surrendering to pressure everywhere; for cheap food, cheap fertiliser, non-existent credit and non-repayable credit that created an inflationary environment.
If we retain the same ingredients, we will get the same output and the same political consequences. I think that is a good topic for the Committee to take a very good long hard look at and just concentrate on that one issue. Can we make the day? Can you square the circle? Can we find a way that the bags of D-Compound reach Chongwe before the election and not after or before October 30th and not after? This is because these have been going on for years, all maize marketing saga is very ancient in this country. We have learnt everything there is to be learnt about, the dos and don’ts and we still do it right. We still lose you and we still have all kinds of rats and mouse inside the system based literally in the silage and metaphorically in the system as a whole.
Mr Mukanga: Yes.
Dr Scott: I would like to end by joining everybody else in welcoming the new faces, especially the new faces. Some are old faces, but they are recycled, but others are genuinely new.
Laughter
Dr Scott: Some have been in and out so often we cannot remember whether they are Members or not, but many are genuinely new faces and I would like to say welcome to the House. You do not know us yet, but you will find some of us quite troublesome because we know your ministries.
PF Member: Aah!
Dr Scott: We know how the Government is supposed to operate and we will be following you. We will not be wasting our time using the Floor of this House to intimidate the press, the Church and to find ways …
Hon. Government Members: Sata.
Dr Scott: … of insulting Mr Michael Sata without mentioning his name, as if this in some way made us very big important people. We will be here helping you to do your job by saying excuse me, Sir – we have a Madam – Madam Kapwepwe I showed your father the wings of Satan through a telescope at the time he was staying in Harry Mwaanga Nkumbula’s house.
PF Members: Hear, hear!
Dr Scott: However, we will be failing you for the things you have not done and things you have done and even sometimes you might feel it is very unfair because we are being critical even when you have succeeded. So, welcome and stay productive for however many years or months it is that we are together in this House.
I thank you, Sir.
Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Chadiza. He is out of the Chamber. Hon. Member for Malole.
Mr Munaile (Malole): Thank you, Mr Speaker, for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the many voices that have contributed to this Motion. I would like to take this opportunity to congratulate all hon. Members, who have joined this august House by nomination or election.
Mr Speaker, agriculture has the capacity to contribute to the economic growth of our country if it is well managed. Our people, especially most of us from the rural areas of our country, are wallowing in poverty and agriculture is one area that can help our people begin to live decent lives.
Mr Speaker, I wonder if agriculture in this country has been properly managed in the past few years. I still believe much more can be done. Allow me to say something about the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP). This programme, like many previous speakers have said, has not yielded its intended results. In other words, the FSP has been a total failure since its inception. It has failed to address the very reasons for its creation. One of the objectives of the Fertiliser Support Programme was to see our farmers graduating to become self reliant after three years in order to allow other farmers to join the programme. Unfortunately, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives alluded to that this afternoon and indicated that this has not happened. There are no farmers who have graduated from the programme. As a result, most of the farmers have found it to be the only way in which to obtain fertiliser.
Mr Speaker, in addition, the programme has also failed to meet the needs of the targeted group of small-scale farmers. I wonder if there is a district in this country that has its requirements met since the programme first started. Therefore, I would like to suggest to the Government that it would be better to allow every farmer access the subsidised fertiliser regardless of their group, if we have to increase production in this country. This would encourage many people to engage in agriculture and begin to grow, not only maize but also any other crop that may need fertiliser. Alternatively, the Government can avail fertiliser to those who need it and allow them to pay after harvesting. In this way, the Government can even reduce the subsidy from 75 per cent, where it is today, to about 50 per cent because people would have money after selling their produce.
Mr Sing’ombe: Hear, hear!
Mr Munaile: Mr Speaker, allow me to say something about the marketing of crops. The way the last marketing season was handled; the way maize was bought by those who have been given the responsibility to buy maize, the Food Reserve Agency (FRA), on behalf of the Government, in a way, contributed to the number of votes the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government received in some areas. At the very beginning, a bag of 50kg maize was costing about K45,000. Along the way, it went up to K55,000 and those who had sold the maize before were not happy because they lost out.
Mr Speaker, K10,000 for a rural farmer is a lot of money. I would like to urge this Government to ensure that, in future, the price is determined before the selling or buying of maize is done.
Mr Speaker, the concentration of buying of maize has mostly affected those who grow other crops such as rice and cassava. I will give an example of Malole Constituency. I have a number of farmers who grow rice, but because the Government, through FRA, is not able to buy their rice, the farmers in Malole are exploited. A 50kg bag of unshelled rice costs K24,000 or less, and yet FRA buys the same rice at K50,000. Despite the assurances by the FRA that they would buy the rice, they do not buy any.
Mr Speaker, I believe this is happening even to cassava growers, despite the assurances that FRA will buy cassava. I do not know whether my brothers in Luapula, which is a province that is targeted can say FRA bought their cassava. In my language, we say,: “Insala temupililwa nindimwa”. This means you cannot expect your neighbour to feed you. You must be able to grow your own food, but even when people grow their own food, how are they helped to sell their crops in order for them raise money and send their children to school or do any other thing that they may want to do?
Mr Speaker, unless our action marches our words, we will just be going around in circles.
Finally, I would like to talk about Fisheries. Hon. Kasongo the other day talked about restocking of fish in the Lake Bangweulu and the many other lakes in the country. In Malole Constituency, we have the Chambeshi River which runs almost 100 kilometres through Malole Constituency. Unfortunately, we have only one Fisheries officer who has neither transport nor a bicycle.
Mr Speaker, any time from now, the Government will effect a fish ban. I wonder how effective that fish ban will be in places such as Mungwi or Malole Constituencies where you have one Fisheries officer who does not have any means of transport. How is he going to control the people who want to fish illegally?
Mr Speaker, I would like to advise this Government that there fish is being depleted. Those who live near lakes and rivers will attest to the fact that we do not have fish any more. Unless the Government ensures that they look into this matter, we will be heading for a total disaster. There is a need for the Government to sensitise our people on the fishing methods. People use mosquito nets to catch fish while others use poison and other sorts of things and yet, as a Government, we are not doing enough to ensure that the right methods are used to preserve the fish in our rivers and lakes.
Mr Speaker, the best way to do things is to ensure that what we say is what we do. I would like to implore this Government, once again, to ensure that their word be their bond. Do not say one thing and do the other thing because tomorrow, you will be judged by what you say.
I thank you, Sir.
Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!
Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank all the nine hon. Members of Parliament who have debated.
I would like to urge that as they receive the Action-Taken Report, through the Office of the Vice-President, they should consider seriously the proposal for the creation of the Office of Livestock and Fisheries Development as well as proper funding to control the diseases.
Mr Speaker, with those few remarks, I thank you.
Question put and agreed to.
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MOTION
ADJOURNMENT
The Vice-President (Mr Kunda, SC): Mr Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.
Question put and agreed to.
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The House adjourned at 1902 hours until 1430 hours on Thursday, 20th November, 2008.