Debates- Thursday, 24th September, 2009

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Thursday, 24th September, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]







Mr Speaker: Hon. Members in accordance with the provisions of the National Assembly Standing Orders, the Standing Orders Committee have also approved the following Members to serve on the various Portfolio Committees for the Fourth Session of the Tenth National Assembly.

Committee on Economic Affairs and Labour (08)

Mr C. W. Kakoma, MP;
Ms E. M. Imbwae, MP;
Mr G. Mpombo, MP;
Mr J. K. Zulu, MP;
Mr C. Mulenga, MP;
Mr F. R. Tembo, MP;
Mr S. Katuka, MP; and 
Mr W. C. Simuusa, MP.

Committee on Communications, Transport, Works and Supply (08)

Mrs E. M. Banda, MP;
Mr J. C. Kasongo, MP;
Mr N. P. Magande, MP;
Mr W. Nsanda, MP;
Mr A. Sejani, MP;
Mr B. Imenda, MP:
Dr S. Musonda, MP; and 
Mr G. Chazangwe, MP.

Committee on Agriculture and Lands  (08)

Mr R. Muntanga, MP;
Mr B. M. Bwalya, MP;
Major C. K. Chibamba, MP;
Mr B. Hamusonde, MP;
Mr S. Katuka, MP;
Mr S. R. Mwapela, MP;
Mr M. J. C. Misapa, MP; and 
Mrs F. B. Sinyangwe, MP.

Committee on Education, Science and Technology (08)

Mr L. K. Chibombamilimo, MP;
Mr M. J. C Misapa, MP;
Mr E. M. Munaile, MP;
Mr M. C. K. Mushili, MP; 
Mr G. Chazangwe, MP;
Mr Y. D. Mukanga, MP;
Mr D. M. Syakalima, MP; and 
Mrs J. C. Mumbi Phiri, MP.

Committee on Energy, Environment and Tourism (08)

Mr G. G. Nkombo, MP;
Mr P. P. Chanda, MP;
Mrs J. M. Limata, MP;
Mr J. Shakafuswa, MP;
Mr V. Mwale, MP;
Mr J. J. Mwiimbu, MP;
Mr P. Sichamba, MP; and
Mr A. Simama, MP.

Committee on Sport, Youth and Child Affairs (08)

Mr L. J. Ngoma, MP;
Dr B. E. Chishya, MP;
Mr E. M. Munaile, MP;
Mrs J. C. Mumbi Phiri, MP;
Mr B. K. Mweemba, MP;
Mr B. M. M. Ntundu, MP;
Mr V. Mwale, MP; and 
Mr S. Sikota.

As stated in my announcement yesterday, all Committees are mandated to elect their own Chairpersons. The election of Chairpersons will be presided over by the Hon. Madam Deputy Speaker on a date to be communicated by the Clerk’s Office.

The final announcement on the composition of Portfolio Committees will be made tomorrow.

Thank you.




The Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, I wish to thank you for allowing me to brief the House on the current status of the pandemic H1N1 2009 or Influenza A/H1N1 as it relates to our country, Zambia. It is worth noting that this disease has been reported in many countries of the world and our own Zambia is one of them. It is also worth noting that the germ that causes this disease, just like HIV, did not originate from Zambia.

Mr Speaker, the H1N1 Influenza is an airborne disease. It is spread by droplets from the airway of an infected person when they sneeze or cough. It is like the common cold.

Mr Speaker, the House might recall that in July and August of this year, we informed the nation that Zambia had recorded its first cases of the Pandemic 2009. This involved Zambian students that had travelled abroad for inter-university games to Serbia. These first patients have since been treated and all of them are now well. Also worth noting is that all the six cases that we recorded before 19th August, 2009 had a history of having travelled abroad.

However, on the 19thAugust, 2009, we recorded our first case of Pandemic 2009 in a patient who had, in fact, not travelled anywhere. This meant that the disease was now present in our country and was now being transmitted from person to person within our communities.

Mr Speaker, this calls for increased alertness in all our citizens. From 15th July, 2009 to the present, we have recorded over 300 suspected cases and, of these, thirty-two confirmed to be actual cases of the Pandemic 2009. New suspected cases are presently being reported from Western, North-Western and Northern provinces. Experts are already on the ground to investigate.

Mr Speaker, though we have attended to thirty-two confirmed cases of the Pandemic, 2009 in all so far, what is notable and must be said is that not a single Zambian has died from this disease. This is attributable to the vigilance and diligence of our health workers as well as the high level awareness in the general population.

Mr Speaker, there is no need to panic. The Pandemic 2009 is not as lethal as it was earlier reported.  In many instances, just like the common cold, it is self limiting – meaning that after about a week, the infection usually goes away. In addition, the level of preparedness by the Ministry of Health is, indeed, high. The National Steering Committee for an adequate response to this public health threat is now place. In addition, the action plan to ensure that the nation secures the health of its citizens through informed interventions has been prepared and this action plan is presently being implemented.

Mr Speaker, let the nation be informed that it shall take collective action to successfully contain public health threats like the Pandemic 2009. It is exceedingly vital that, even as we assure ourselves, this disease could get out of control if we relent in our efforts.

Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Health, working with other ministries and stakeholders and in order that a measure of health security is attained in the nation, has put in place the following:

(a) sensitisation of members of the public ;

(b) through ad hoc and scheduled statements, the Ministry of Health shall keep the nation informed about this disease. It is vital that no one issues a single statement about the Pandemic 2009 apart from a sanctioned officer from the Ministry of Health. Members of the public should treat any statement coming from elsewhere other than the Ministry of Health as  unreliable and they must ignore such a statement;

(c) surveillance sites are now being expanded to all the provinces;

(d) health workers are still being trained to best acquaint them with the disease and for them to be better prepared to respond;

(e) drugs have been secured through the World Health Organisation (WHO) and the World Bank for our use. Paediatric formulations of these drugs will soon be available. A request has been made to secure more so that our present stocks are beefed up. The National Action Plan requires K9.8 billion. Only half of this has been mobilised from the Government and it partners;

(f) linkages with other ministries have been strengthened. Information, education and communication materials have been shared with the ministries of Education and Agriculture and Co-operatives. Teachers are being relied upon to pass on correct information to their pupils;

(g) Traditional leaders and councillors are also being engaged to keep them abreast with accurate information on this affliction and how to respond to it;

(h) Isolation sites have already been identified in case the need for isolating patients arises;

(i) an assessment of the level of preparedness of the provinces was done and the findings are assuring. Further, strengthening of this preparedness is being done; and

(j) our ports of entry are being manned by skilled personnel who are distributing leaflets on the disease and are on the lookout for anyone with signs and symptoms of the disease so that they are offered the required therapy or advice.

Mr Speaker, closure of schools is not recommended. As I earlier mentioned, this disease is like the common cold. In some cases, this disease will resolve on its own.

Mr Speaker, the main signs and symptoms of the Pandemic 2009 are as follows:

(i) Fever;

(ii) Cough;

(iii) Sneezing;

(iv) Body aches;

(v) Malaise or fatigue;

(vi) Sore throat;

(vii) Runny or stuffy nose; and

(viii) Headache

A significant number of people who have been infected with this virus have also reported diarrhoea and vomiting.

Mr Speaker, let me, again, remind the House that this Pandemic 2009 is now widespread. Initially, the Pandemic 2009 was being called Swine Flu because it was thought to be the respiratory disease with the same elements of the virus spread by and found in pigs. This view has now changed because the cause of the Influenza A/H1N1 is now known to be a new virus. Note that pork and pork products, when well prepared, are safe to consume.

Mr Speaker, the World Health Organisation (WHO) recommends that the infection should now be called Pandemic (H1N1) 2009 or Influenza A/H1N1.

Those with other underlying conditions which may impair immunity might suffer a more severe form of the illness if afflicted. These include those with diabetes, cancer, HIV and those that are pregnant.

Mr Speaker, actions that can be taken at home by individuals to help prevent the spread of germs that cause this disease include the following:

Dr Chituwo coughed.


Dr Chituwo:

(i) if one has a serious underlying illness such as diabetes, cancer or the HIV infection;

(ii) if one is pregnant;

(iii) if one has a sick child under one year old; and

(iv) if the signs and symptoms of flu persist for seven days for an adult and five days for a child.

Mr Speaker, let the nation be assured that the Ministry of Health is providing the requisite leadership on the national response to this public health threat. It must be acknowledged that with inspired collective action involving all parliamentarians and their constituents, traditional leaders, the Church and the business world, success shall be attained over this challenge.

Unity of purpose on this non-partisan issue shall enable us to realise our goal which is health security for all the citizens of Zambia.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Speaker: The hon. Members may now ask questions on points of clarification on the statement which has been given by the hon. Minister of Health.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, what measures has the Government put in place to ensure that entry ports to this country are adequately addressed pertaining to this influenza? I am aware that that is not obtaining at the Lusaka International Airport.

Ms Cifire: Manje apa tili naimwe!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in my statement, I mentioned that we have strengthened the training of our staff and information sharing. In some instances, we have stationed our staff to interact with and look at visitors at these ports of entry.

Sir, as I have mentioned, the H1N1 Pandemic 2009 exhibits symptoms of a common cold. Therefore, it is just through the interrogation of and interaction with visitors who may have the symptoms of the disease at the ports of entry that we can detect such patients.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali): Mr Speaker, according to the hon. Minister, this is a very serious disease and the shaking of hands appears to be one of the fastest ways of spreading this disease, especially that even the covering of the mouth, as the hon. Minister has …

Mr Speaker: Order! Ask your question, please.

Mr C. Mulenga: Is the Government considering banning the shaking of hands in order to prevent the spread of this disease?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I have stated several measures that we have to undertake in order to prevent the spread of this disease. Clearly, our custom entails the shaking of hands as we greet. However, I would like to believe that as our sensitisation messages spread all over, people will take measures that will minimise the shaking of hands. The minimising of shaking hands should be done in a way which does not depict rudeness. Therefore, information is the most effective preventive measure.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, how does the hon. Minister expect the members of the public to co-operate as regards the throwing of tissues anyhow since there are no dust bins in towns and not even outside the University Teaching Hospital (UTH)? How does the hon. Minister expect the public to co-operate in the fight against this pandemic?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, that is not a correct statement. I had hoped that the hon. Member of Parliament for Bweengwa would say “in some parts of town.”

Sir, under the Keep Zambia and Healthy Clean Campaign, one can see visible changes, for instance, along the Cairo Road where there are bins stationed there.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: This aspect is being encouraged by shop owners and in the markets. Therefore, through this statement, we shall just intensify these messages that it is important to have these bins available. Perhaps, I wish to take this opportunity to appeal to the general public, especially that I have noticed that our people - not all of them - have a tendency of throwing tissue paper through the windows of moving vehicles. This is a very bad habit which must be discouraged.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the Pandemic H1N1 2009 was reported at Luanshya Trust School where more than eight pupils were admitted to Independence Clinic. May I know, from the hon. Minister, if there is any latest information regarding these suspicions in Luanshya which have seen the closing of Luanshya Trust School for the past two weeks?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, indeed, what we did was to get swabs from the pupils and as soon as these results are confirmed, we shall let you know. As I have said, many a time, even after confirmation, this virus is, fortunately, milder than what was previously reported in Mexico. This disease tends to subside after ten days. Therefore, the diagnosis is just a matter of confirming. Generally, for healthy adults and young people, it is a self-limiting disease.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mrs Masebo (Chongwe): Mr Speaker, in his statement, the hon. Minister called this disease swine flu and now the name has changed to H1N1 Pandemic 2009. However, he did not explain why there is a change of name. Could he help us understand why it is called a pandemic now as opposed to swine flu, which most of our people seem to have caught on to, and what programmes, specifically for markets, have been put in place to ensure that traders are sensitised enough?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, hon. Members of Parliament will recall that when this disease started in Mexico, it was confined only to some South American countries. With time, it was clear that it was spreading rapidly and there is a classification at the World Health Organisation (WHO) with regard to the epidemiology of the disease. The classification of the disease was that it was an epidemic, but it is now a pandemic on the basis of the number of countries that have been affected. So far, out of the 192 WHO members States, about 186 have reported cases of the H1N1.

One might recall that when it was still confined, the alert message from the WHO was grade one and then it rose to grade two, three, four until it reached grade five, which is a full-blown pandemic. This means that the disease is very widespread and that, in fact, it is now in almost all member States, hence, the change of the name to Pandemic 2009 because its classification changed from a confined to a worldwide disease.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, I wish to learn if there have been any fatalities recorded in Zambia arising from this pandemic. If the pandemic is mild, why are we panicking over it?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, for the sake of emphasis, I indicated that all the thirty cases are confirmed, but we have had no fatalities in Zambia. The reason for panicking is because of the category of patients who I mentioned. We have, for example, those whose immunity is compromised, those with cancer and the pregnant women. We have to take measures because of this group of citizens in our country.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister considering putting up measures to protect hon. Members, especially that now he has announced that there is a pandemic? We have my friend here who has just returned from the North-Western Province and he is coughing.


Mr Muntanga: Are we going to screen the people from the North-Western Province?


Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member is trying to discriminate against hon. Members from the North-Western Province.


Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, as I alluded to earlier, the symptoms of the Pandemic H1N1 2009 are mimicking those of a common cold. Since the hon. Members are now armed with vital information as regards the prevention of the infection, I am sure that is the first weapon we all have in this House. With that information, we can protect ourselves, including avoiding shaking hands with hon. Members from the North-Western Province.

I thank you, Sir.


Mr Speaker: Order! I suggest that hon. Members study the text of the address by the hon. Minister of Health. If there are any hon. Members who wish to follow up certain points he has made, they may do so through the National Assembly clinic here or by approaching the hon. Acting Minister of Health who is a medical doctor and any other medical practitioners here.




11. Mr Hamusonde (Nangoma) asked the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry how many women, youth, people living with disabilities and people living with HIV/AIDS had benefited from the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Programme in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency.

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga) (on behalf of the Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry (Mr Mutati)): Mr Speaker, none of the targeted citizens, that is the women, youth, people living with disabilities and people living with HIV/AIDS have benefited from the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Programme in Nangoma Parliamentary Constituency. However, our records show that the commission has received one application from Nangoma Constituency and the project has been appraised. That is to say that its business plan has been reviewed. The business premises have been visited and assessed based on its technical feasibility as well as the viability of the project. The Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Commission (CEEC) has observed that Mumbwa area may not have sufficient information on the activities of the commission. Therefore, the CEEC has embarked on a comprehensive sensitisation campaign in central province, which includes Mumbwa District.

Mr Speaker, this exercise has resulted in the commission receiving twenty-three applications out of which nine have been appraised, a copy of which I shall lay on the Table. Fourteen of these applications have been redirected for applicants to provide detailed business plans. These are for the following:

(i) Zeni Kwangu General dealers;
(ii) Mumbwa Central Youth Enterprises;
(iii) Mulimo General Dealers;
(iv) Grecar Enterprise
(v) Shanzi Construction and Trading
(vi) Bennaiah Multi-purpose Co-operative Society;
(vii) Jajagi General Dealers;
(viii) ZBM Enterprises;
(ix) Lemmy’s Business Centre;
(x) Future Youth Band;
(xi) Tiyeseko Enterprises;
(xii) Mano Early Learning School;
(xiii) Tinwilizane Women’s Club; and
(xiv) Malaika General Dealers.

Mr Speaker, further, the ministry has instituted a number of efforts such as the translating and printing of the Citizens’ Economic Empowerment Act into seven major local languages and transcribing and printing the Act into English Braille and seven major local languages which will be launched soon. These will later be distributed to hon. Members of Parliament for onward distribution to their electorates.
The commission has also translated into the seven major languages the brochure with steps in accessing the CEEC funds, facts about it and the empowerment programmes. This programme is just awaiting printing for onward distribution to hon. Members and the citizens of Zambia.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, we are all aware that the people in rural areas have a problem in getting this money. Has the Government got a plan to assist the people in rural areas who do not have title deeds to obtain money from the CEEC?

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, it is the intention of the Government and specifically the CEEC to ensure that all targeted citizens are able to access funds from the CEEC Fund and, to this effect, the Government and the CEEC are not specifically, sometimes, looking for projects without collateral. For business start-up capital, up to K50 million forms are in filled free of charge. Citizens who want to access these funds, if they do not have collateral, can offer some guarantees for the projects that they want to do and a structure can be arranged and agreed upon with the CEEC to facilitate these citizens acquiring funds from the CEEC.

I thank you, Sir.


12. Mr Kambwili (Roan) asked the Minister of Labour and Social Security:

(a) what the total membership of each of the following unions was:

(i) Zambia National Union of Teachers (ZNUTZ);
(ii) Secondary Schools Teachers’ Union of Zambia (SESTUZ);
(iii) Basic Education Teachers Union of Zambia (BETUZ);
(iv) Civil Servants and Allied Workers Union of Zambia (CSAWUZ);
(v) Zambia Union of Nurses Organisations (ZUNO);
(vi) Mineworkers Union of Zambia (MUZ): and 
(vii) National Union of Miners and Allied Workers (NUMAW);

(b) how much money, per month, each union above collected from its members; and

(c) how the money collected was utilised.

The Deputy Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Kachimba): Mr Speaker, the total membership of the above trade unions is as follows:

Name of the Union    Total Membership

ZNUT    -                      30, 408
SESTUZ  -                      5, 600
BETUZ   -                      18, 070
CSAWUZ  -                   20, 000
ZUNO   -                          5, 000
MUZ   -                           18, 000
NUMAW  -                      11, 500

Mr Speaker, the amount of money per month each union collects from its members is as follows:

Name of the Union         Amount Received per Month (K)

ZNUT    –                         1, 020, 000, 000
SESTUZ   –                      184, 000, 000
BETUZ    –                        280, 000, 000
CSAWUZ   –                     235, 000, 000
ZUNO                                –  This is a new union which the Government recognised on 21st July, 2009 and they have just been allocated the code number for membership application which is on 11th August, 2009. Therefore, it has not yet received any contributions from its members.
MUZ    –                  460, 880, 750
NUMAW   –             235, 326, 543.50

Mr Speaker, the money collected by the above mentioned unions is utilised according to the following programmes and activities namely;

(a) salaries, wages and allowances;
(b) office accommodation, rentals for both headquarters and provincial centres;
(c) loans to members;
(d) workers’ education and training;
(e) annual events such as Labour Day and International Women’s Day;
(f) administrative expenses;
(g) investment;
(h) research; and 
(i) meetings and conferences

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, it is clear that the moneys collected are colossal. May I know, with the reported misuse of money in most of the unions, whether the Government has taken an interest in the audits and in the event that there is abuse of monies in these organisations, what is Government doing to stop the scourge?

The Minister of Labour and Social Security (Mr Liato): Mr Speaker, under the law, the unions are required to submit their statements of accounts to the Office of the Labour Commissioner annually. Before then, the Commissioner had no powers to act on issues of misuse of funds until last year when the Industrial and Labour Relations Act was revised. At the moment, the Labour Commissioner will have powers to act on queries on accounts or if he is not satisfied with the reports submitted to his office, he will have powers to appoint an independent auditor after which he can take any course of action that is deemed fit, including suspending the executive members of the union in order to pave way for thorough investigations to be conducted. I think that the law has adequately addressed this issue. There are no issues of misuse at the moment but, if they arise, I just want to assure the hon. Member that the law has now mandated the Office of the Labour Commissioner to deal with issues in a satisfactory manner.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, 70 per cent of members’ contributions from all these unions which have been mentioned is money spent on salaries. May I know what the Government is doing to ensure that the money is spent on the members and, specifically, on issues such as workers’ education?

Mr Liato: Mr Speaker, now I do not have information that shows the data of which areas these huge amounts of money really go to. However, I think the point is that we encourage that this money, other than the issue of salaries and wages, is also used on workers’ education so that the workers themselves are able to realise some benefits from their contributions and are enlightened on issues of their rights and I think that we shall follow it up and ensure that we encourage that this is done.

I thank you, Sir.


13. Mr Milupi (Luena) asked the Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training when the ministry would establish a trades training institute in Luena Parliamentary Constituency to absorb Grade 9 and 12 school leavers and provide, among others, the following trades:

(a) carpentry; and 
(b) bricklaying

The Deputy Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Mr Imasiku): Mr Speaker, the ministry has no immediate plans to establish a trades training institute in Luena Parliamentary Constituency. The current focus of the ministry is to:

(a) construct classroom and workshop facilities at already established institutions that have been operating from temporary premises; and

(b) establish trades training institutes at the district level rather than at the constituency level. In this regard, districts that do not have trades training institutes will be targeted starting with those provinces that have fewer institutes. The Government is, also, constructing hostel facilities at these institutions to cater for students coming from areas outside the locality of the training institutes.

With regard to Luena Constituency, I wish to indicate that the ministry is investing in new infrastructure at Mongu Teachers’ Training Institute and Kaoma Training Institute. These institutions can absorb significant numbers of Grade 9 and 12 school leavers from Luena Constituency, bearing in mind that they are currently under-enrolling. We are, also, putting up boarding facilities at these institutions to cater for students who may not have accommodation in the respective districts.

However, recognising that there are many school leavers who need to be absorbed in skills training institutions and taking into account the Government’s limited capacity to establish skills training institutions across the country, the Government is encouraging the private sector, non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and community participation in skills provision.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, the two trades (carpentry and bricklaying) which I picked are lifelines out of poverty for many children who leave Grade 9 and 12. Recognising what I have just said, would the hon. Minister, please, explain why the Government has not taken special measures to ensure that we have accelerated training of all our school leavers in these specific trades?

The Minister of Science, Technology and Vocational Training (Mr Namulambe): Mr Speaker, first of all, I would like to state that I was in Mongu just a few weeks ago and the cry of the Principal of Mongu Trades Institute is that enrolment levels are quite low and this institute is part of Luena Constituency. However, the Government has put in place measures to help young people in skills training so as to reduce youth unemployment. We also consider those doing carpentry and bricklaying for bursaries.

As regards getting people to go into college, I think that is one of the issues which the hon. Member of Parliament should help us with by sensitising people in his area so that they are enrolled at that institute which is experiencing under enrolment.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.{mospagebreak}


14. Mr Beene (Itezhi-tezhi) asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a) when the construction of the Itezhi-tezhi Hydro Power Station would commence; and

(b) what the source of funding for the project was.

The Deputy Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Mbewe): Mr Speaker, the construction of the Itezhi-tezhi power station is scheduled to commence in the first quarter of 2010. The tender documents for the Engineering Procurement Construction (EPC) contract were issued on an International Competitive Bidding (ICB) basis on 8th December, 2008 and closed on 15th May, 2009. The evaluation of the four received bids has been concluded and the preferred contractor will be known by the end of 2009. The construction phase is estimated to take about three and half years and, therefore, the project is expected to be completed by March, 2013.

Mr Speaker, the estimated cost for the whole project is about US $200 million. The joint transaction advisors from the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) and TATA will source funds for the project and advise on financial and legal matters up to the financial close. The financing structure is as follows:

(a) 30 per cent equity (US $60 million) from ZESCO and TATA; and

(b) 70 per cent debt (US $140 million) from development financing institutions.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the Itezhi-tezhi Dam was constructed in 1978 with a provision of a power station to be constructed. What are the main reasons for taking more than eighteen years without a power station being constructed?

The Minister of Energy and Water Development (Mr Konga): Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi for that follow-up question. At the advent of independence of this nation in 1964, the Government embarked on the construction of hydro-power stations to support economic development of the country in the years to follow. However, as time elapsed, various factors such as global recessions have come into play, with Zambia suffering heavily due to, among other things, the fall in the price of copper internationally. This dampened economic activities in the country such that the demand for electricity was not as high as had earlier been anticipated.

As a result of this, Zambia found itself with a surplus as far as electricity was concerned. Therefore, there was no need, at that time, to pursue development of new power projects such as Itezhi-tezhi in this case, because at that time, there was surplus electricity. Of course, with the change of times, there is now an urgent need to develop all the possible hydro-power stations in the country and the Government has seriously embarked on this venture. It is to this effect, as indicated in the response given by the hon. Deputy Minister, that the project should start in the first quarter of 2010.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, I surely expected the hon. Minister to inform this House the megawatt output of the Itezhi-tezhi project once it is completed, and to what extent it will reduce the power outages, especially in the Southern Province.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question. However, I would have preferred that he would have requested the hon. Member for Itezhi-tezhi to include his submissions to the initial question on the Order Paper if he had wanted those issues to be addressed specifically.

Nonetheless, the ministry is ready to respond to those queries and this power station, upon completion, is going to produce 120 megawatts. This additional power to the national grid will, of course, go a long way in addressing the current power deficit that the country is facing. Areas such as the Southern Province, which have been affected by the power deficit, will definitely be included such that load shedding in those areas should reduce.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka Central): Sir, there is dignity in being very truthful. I would like the hon. Minister to tell us exactly what the state of affairs is between ZESCO and TATA, the company that was contracted to go into a joint venture for the construction of the penstocks and engines at Itezhi-tezhi Power Station because TATA has practically withdrawn as it has no money.

Mr Konga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central for that follow-up question. As a Government, we are aware that the programme between TATA and ZESCO will continue. As has been indicated in the response, 30 per cent equity for the project will be shared on a 50 per cent basis between ZESCO and TATA. If the hon. Member for Mazabuka Central has information to the contrary, we will be more than willing to receive it.

I thank you, Sir.


15. Mr Mwapela (Kalabo Central) asked the Minister of Lands:

(a) when the Land Registry would be computerised to provide for applying for land on-line; and

(b) when a land audit was last carried out.

The Deputy Minister of Lands (Mr Mabenga): Mr Speaker, the Land Registry is already computerised. However, the system of applying for land is not online. Land application is usually submitted to the councils who, in turn, make recommendations to the Commissioner of Lands. In view of this, online application for land will require a lot of resources to develop capacity in councils and will take a long time to achieve.

Broadly defined, land audit involves inventorising data of various forms relating to land. This means, finding out how much of the total land of the country is for agriculture, mining, forestry reserve, industrial use and how much of these categories is unused and/or under utilised.

In this regard, my ministry conducted some inspections in four pilot provinces, namely Lusaka, Copperbelt, Central and Southern provinces to identify unused and/or underutilised land. This was carried out between 15th December, 2008 and 15th January, 2009. However, my ministry regularly undertakes inspections to ensure lease compliance.

I thank you, Sir.


16. Mr C. Mulenga (Chinsali) asked the Minister of Livestock and Fisheries when the Mbesuma Ranch in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency would be restocked with the appropriate number of animals.

The Deputy Minister of Livestock and Fisheries (Mr Mulonga): Mr Speaker, the Mbesuma Ranch in Chinsali Parliamentary Constituency will be restocked with fifty cows and two bulls by the end of 2009. Funds are available for this project and major construction and rehabilitation works of the ranch infrastructure have already been done.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr C. Mulenga: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Minister for implementing this project in Chinsali. However, I would like to know what measures the Government is taking to ensure that the people living within the ranch are not displaced. If they are, are they going to be given alternative land so that we do not have problems with them?

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, generally, the interior part of the Mbesuma Ranch is not occupied by people. It is the outskirts that are occupied. I requested my colleague, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chinsali, to sit down with the chiefs and the District Commissioner to chart the way forward. Therefore, I was expecting him to bring information to this august House with regard to how far he has gone with this issue.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo Central): Mr Speaker, in the budget, this year, there was an allowance for over K400 million to rehabilitate the Mbesuma Ranch in Chinsali. From the discussions and answers that have been given, it appears the ranch is not free of people. It has been occupied illegally. What is the Government doing to ensure that the ranch, first and foremost, is taken over for proper rehabilitation?

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, we have rehabilitated two houses for the manager and his assistant, five crush pens and a guest house at a cost of K400 million. Currently, the work we are talking about is the purchasing of the cows and bulls. The tender for this is floating and may be closed next week so that the animals can be supplied before the end of this year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: Just for the benefit of the record, could the hon. Minister advise what the correct nomenclature for the new ministry is.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, it is the Ministry of Livestock and Fisheries.

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, in the history of cattle management, it has never happened that a cost of four crush pens can be K400 million. Would the hon. Minister be serious to this august House because the minimum you can spend is, maybe, K5 million which is even too much. Could the hon. Minister be realistic? We need serious answers.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, I mentioned five crush pens, two houses and a guest house. All of them have been rehabilitated, including other minor works.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, the Mbesuma Ranch had a sister ranch, Chishinga State Ranch. Does the Government intend to extend the same renovations and restocking to the Chishinga State Ranch in Kawambwa?

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, the intention of this Government is to establish a breeding centre for cows in each province. Therefore, we have started with the Mbesuma Ranch and if money permits, when we are through with the Mbesuma Ranch, we are going to extend this to each province, including the Luapula Province.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, I am hearing very bizarre things from the hon. Minister.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Do you have a question or you simply want to give a comment on the ministry?

Major Chizhyuka: Five crush pens for fifty head of cattle? Where, in the world, are things done like that? 1,000 head of cattle can be served by one crush pen. Why are you spending K400 million for five crush pens for fifty cows? What kind of prudence is that?

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, planning involves immediate and future planning and, even in your home, if you want to plan for breakfast on a daily basis, I think, at one point, you may run out of food. What we are doing is to plan for our future. We will start with fifty plus two this year. We have not said that we are ending at this fifty, no. We have to plan for the future and we will be buying these cows in phases to avoid problems of storage.

I thank you, Sir.


17. Mr Sejani (Mapatizya) asked the Minister of Home Affairs:

(a) what the current status on the issuance of national registration cards countrywide was; and

(b) which areas were yet to be visited in this regard as of 31st July, 2009.

The Deputy Minister of Home Affairs (Mr D. Phiri): Mr Speaker, the current status on the issuance of national registration cards countrywide is at two levels:

(a) continuous registration; and

(b) mobile registration.

Sir, issuance of national registration cards is taking place in all district offices while mobile registration is going on in the Eastern, Western and North-Western provinces. I wish to inform the House that the mobile registration in the three provinces, which started in June, 2009, is almost concluded except in a few areas that could not be accessed in parts of the Western and North-Western provinces. A total of 320,017 national registration cards have been issued through the mobile registration exercise to date.

As regards part (b) of the question, by 31st July, 2009, mobile registration was still going on in the three provinces. Upon completion, we shall move to other provinces.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sejani: Mr Speaker, when will the Government commission a serious national registration exercise in Zambia which will capture all eligible Zambians because the current one is falling far short of the demand, especially when it looks like it is concentrated in areas where the MMD seems to have support?

The Minister of Home Affairs (Mr Mangani): Mr Speaker, we have indicated that there is a continuous voters’ registration exercise taking place in every district, but to reinforce this, we decided to have mobile registration to target areas which are very far from the district centres. We had to start from somewhere. The first phase has been completed and we are moving on to the second phase. The issue of strongholds does not arise because we are moving on to the other districts or provinces in the second phase.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kapeya (Mpika Central): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister inform the House the duration for mobile registration for each province?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the duration is normally three months and the exercise is supposed to be completed. However, we have some challenges along the way. As I indicated, areas such as the Western Province were waterlogged at the time officers moved there. Therefore, it was not possible for officers to move in and issue registration cards. Although we may stipulate the period, we have some challenges that we need to address. The minimum period for this exercise is three months but this can change depending on the situation on the ground.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister tell us whether he has the resources in terms of equipment, materials and money to complete, in an even-handed way, the mobile registration of eligible individuals throughout the country within, let us say, the next twelve months because the voter registration is going to begin then?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, I can confirm that we have enough materials for every district but, at the same time, this is the period when we will be considering the budget for next year. I expect all hon. Members to support my budget so that we allocate enough money to complete this exercise within next year.

Thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze Central): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has indicated to the House and nation that he has enough materials for the national registration card exercise. Why would he want us to support him in the next budget for the materials he would require if he has enough?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, we have materials at the district level, but there is an exercise that we are undertaking at the moment, which is the mobile registration, and that requires extra funding. This is why we are requesting more funds.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya): Mr Speaker, since the Government does not have enough funds, is it right for the hon. Members of Parliament to pick up the registration officers from their offices and take them to the constituency, using our own resources?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, we would not encourage you as Member of Parliament …

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mangani: … to ferry people from point A to B. The best you can do, as a Member of Parliament, is sensitise people to get national registration cards once these stations have been opened. As I have said, we are moving on to Phase II and, most likely, the Northern Province will be in Phase II. Once we come to the Northern Province, encourage the people to go and see our officers instead of you ferrying them from point A to B.

Thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, which phase is the Southern Province in, especially Katombola Constituency?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, we are considering, in Phase II, the Northern, Southern and between Luapula and Central provinces. In Phase II, the Southern Province will be covered.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Mr Speaker, when is the ministry going to introduce more secure national registration cards that are less susceptible to forgery? This is a programme that has been going on for some time.

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for raising that very important question. It is true that we need to have an identity that is secure but, as you know, we have just introduced the new passport and, so, we could not do it at the same time with national registration cards. We are definitely looking at this possibility next year.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, the mobile national registration exercise requires the involvement of all stakeholders, particularly the political parties. I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why all the key stakeholders are not involved in this process.

Hon. MMD Members: Aah!

Mr D. Mwila: Yes, That is where rigging starts from!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the national registration exercise involves citizens.

Hon. MMD Members: Yes!

Mr Mangani: Citizens are organised in several forms or structures. They are organised in terms of villages and families. The village headmen and chiefs are the ones we give the responsibility to organise the people so that they go and get their NRCs. Once we inform the headmen and chiefs that our team is coming to issue NRCs, we expect that these people can respond. The national registration exercise is above political affiliations.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister of Home Affairs state, in good faith, what logic he applied to jump over the Central and Lusaka provinces and move from the Eastern to the Western Province in the issuance of the NRCs?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the mobile registration exercise particularly targets the rural parts of our country.
Hon. MMD Members: Yes!

Mr Mangani: That is why we thought of the Eastern, North-Western and Western provinces and now we are talking about Northern, Southern and, possibly, Luapula provinces.

Mr Mangani: You must understand the geographical position of our country. A person in Lusaka can easily rush to the Boma and get an NRC.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear!

Mr Mangani: However, a person who is in the rural areas will have difficulties. This is why this exercise is targeting the rural parts so that most of our people can have access to NRCs.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what measures he has put in place to ensure that the people in other parts of the Eastern Province only get one registration card per person as opposed to what happened in Petauke.

Hon. MMD Members: Aah!

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, an NRC has a card number and we expect that number to apply to a particular individual. We do not expect an individual to share that number with several other people. That is the measure we have taken in that regard.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Beene: Mr Speaker, the Ministry of Home Affairs has changed the features on the new passport it issues so that it can secure it. It has also changed the driving licence so that it cannot be forged. Why has it taken so long to have new NRCs which cannot be forged? Can you give a comprehensive reason?

Mr Mangani: Mr Speaker, the reason is mainly that of lack of resources for us to computerise the system and make sure that we have all the materials. We may not do all these things at the same time. We had to start with the passport, and now we will be moving on to the NRC.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.


18. Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport when safe harbours would be constructed at Chishi and Mbabala islands on Lake Bangweulu in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency.

The Deputy Minister of Communications and Transport (Mr Mubika): Mr Speaker, the Government is concerned with the current condition of the harbours at Chishi and Mbabala on Lake Bangweulu in Chifunabuli Parliamentary Constituency.

Sir, currently, there are no immediate plans to rehabilitate the two harbours due to budgetary constraints. However, the harbours will be rehabilitated as soon as funds are made available.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwansa: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister where the harbours he will rehabilitate are at Chishi and Mbabala islands because, as far as I know, they are non-existent.

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member of Parliament for Chifunabuli, a learned Counsel for that matter, asked us about …


Mr Mubika: … the harbours at Chishi and Mbabala which need to be rehabilitated. So, …

Hon. Opposition Member: There is no harbour.

Mr Mubika: … as a Government, we will consider putting up harbours at the two places when funds are made available.

 I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The Chair wishes to guide that if that follow-up question from the hon. Member for Chifunabuli is correct, the Chair would like to guide hon. Members not to set up hon. Ministers just to find out if they are intelligent enough to guess ...


Mr Speaker: … when a harbour is said to be where there is none.



19. Dr Chishya (Pambashe) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) whether public universities in Zambia were classified into categories of excellence, such as first class, second class, and third class; and

(b) if the classification above does exist, what the classifications for the following universities were:

(i) Copperbelt University;

(ii) Mulungushi University; and

(iii) University of Zambia. 

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the public universities are not classified into any performance rankings, yet. However, the ministry is in the process of establishing the Higher Education Authority which will be mandated to ensure the following:

(a) quality assurance;

(b) monitoring of standards;

(c) students’/lecturers’ performance;

(d) research achievements; and

(e) accreditation.

Thereafter, public universities will be expected to be categorised into various performance ranks.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Chishya: Mr Speaker, if there is no classification at present, can the hon. Minister state why there are differences in conditions of service, particularly in salaries among these universities?

The Minister of Education (Ms Siliya): Mr Speaker, in our answer, we did state that our universities are not classified in various categories and that is the problem that we want to address. Also, universities are supposed to be centres for generation of revenue to meet their demands, one of which is to provide for the wages and conditions of service for their employees. This is why you have the variations in the conditions of service.

I thank you, Sir.


20. Mrs Banda (Chililabombwe) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport what the ministry’s position was regarding the benefits of the former employees of the Road Traffic Commission (RTC), who were taken over by the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA).

Mr Mubika: Mr Speaker, the total number of former employees of the defunct RTC who were taken on by RTSA was fifty-eight. These have not yet been paid their benefits. However, the Government is doing everything possible to ensure that they are paid.

I thank you, Sir.


21. Mr Mwango (Kanchibiya) asked the Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services when the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation would improve radio and television reception in Kanchibiya Parliamentary Constituency and other rural areas in Zambia.

The Deputy Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services (Mr Muchima): Mr Speaker, the Zambia National Broadcasting Corporation (ZNBC) is carrying out an on-going programme under the Rural Television Project for Terrestrial Television Service expansion to the rural areas of Zambia. This is currently restricted to district centres and surrounding areas of up to twenty kilometres from the Boma and population centres that have supporting infrastructure like the national power grid and communication towers.

Currently, ZNBC is not targeting constituencies, but districts and population centres with reasonable population concentrations and have electricity.

Sir, in view of the above, it is difficult to state as to when, exactly, ZNBC will improve television reception in Kanchibiya Constituency before the above-mentioned supporting infrastructure is put in place.

Mr Speaker, as for the improvement of radio reception, the entire Kanchibiya Constituency and other areas without electricity can only receive the ZNBC radio signal through shortwave transmissions. These transmissions have not been reliable in the recent past, but works are under way to normalise transmissions by the end of 2009.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Let me guide those who ask the main questions that if they want to ask follow-up questions, they must be alert and indicate very quickly. Otherwise, I will just be moving on to the next question. Like now, I am moving on.{mospagebreak}


22. Mr Hamusonde asked the Minister of Livestock and Fisheries whether there were plans to:

(a) rehabilitate or construct dip tanks in rural areas where cattle farming existed;

(b) offer free vaccines for livestock in rural areas; and

(c) offer free extension services through educating farmers on how to take care of their animals.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, plans are there to rehabilitate or construct dip tanks in rural areas, but this will start in the proposed disease-free zones which are part of Copperbelt, Central and Lusaka provinces and, later, spread to other areas of the country where cattle farming exists.

Mr Speaker, there are no plans to offer free vaccines for all livestock diseases in rural areas. Free vaccines are only for diseases of national economic importance such as foot and mouth disease and contagious bovine pleural pneumonia (CBPP).

Mr Speaker, extension services to farmers in Zambia are free. There has never been a cost attached to them.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Hamusonde: Mr Speaker, when will the Government make it mandatory for all farmers to dip their animals?

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, dipping of animals is actually mandatory. There are some diseases which are supposed to be managed by farmers themselves. The only way the farmers can manage those diseases is by dipping. The Government is only concerned with diseases of economic importance to the country. Every farmer must be taking his or her animals for dipping. I, therefore, urge all hon. Members of Parliament to help the Government in this sensitisation so that all our farmers are made to dip their animals.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, in answering part (a) of the question, the hon. Minister indicated that he was going to establish dip tanks in disease-free zones. This is equivalent to putting malaria tablets outside the tropics. What sense is there to put dip tanks in disease-free zones and leave out those areas which have been hit by diseases?

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, we did not say we are going to start constructing. There is rehabilitation or construction. So, where they are existing, we can just rehabilitate. What we know, as a ministry, is that every province already has dip tanks which are either functional or not functional. Currently, the money which we have can only enable us to start with those disease-free zones because those are the areas from which we intend to start exporting our livestock products from. So, the rehabilitation will start from there. In the other provinces, those dip tanks which are working will continue.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Mwiimbu: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that the so-called disease-free zones are areas where there are no cattle. Therefore, what is he going to be protecting?

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, to the contrary, we have cattle in the disease-free zones. What you may talk about is that, maybe, one of the provinces may not match with the number of cattle in Southern Province.  I can agree with him on that point. Otherwise, we have cattle in all these three provinces and that is why we want to start exporting from these provinces. We cannot export from where there are no cattle.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, the ministry is trying to create dip tanks and crush pens.


Major Chizhyuka: Given that there are 500,000 head of cattle which are not near any dipping facilities, is this ministry which repairs five crush pens for fifty head of cattle prepared, now, to establish 50,000 clash panes for 500,000 herds of cattle. The formula for reorganising Mbesuma Ranch was given this morning.

Mr Mulonga: Mr Speaker, the same disease many not be treated exactly with the same drug. When planning, we do it according to the locality and the situation at hand. What we have planned for Mbesuma Ranch may not necessarily be the plan for Southern Province, Luapula Province or Central provinces. Therefore, each plan must be equal to the problem which is at hand. We have no common plan which can sort out all the problems.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!


23. Mr Nyirenda (Kamfinsa) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) how many roads were earmarked for rehabilitation and construction in Kitwe District in 2009; and

(b) when the ministry would construct a ring road to join Centre Street to the Ndola/ Kitwe dual carriage way through Ndeke Village.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, there were sixteen roads in Kitwe District which were earmarked for rehabilitation according to the 2009 Annual Work Plan. These are:

 Name of the road                          Length (KM)

Ipusukilo                                          0.52
Poisentia                                          0.85
Duly-Lumumba                                 1.85
Mporokoso-Chilonga - Mukwae        3.2  
27th Avenue                                     0.58
Matuka Avenue                                 0.24
Central Street                                    1.6
Mindolo                                              2.7
Chibuluma                                          2.4
Chiwala                                             2.6
Congo Way                                        1.1
Chinyemba Way                                 1.3


Almalik/Kopa                                     2.4
Nile Road                                           0.7
Ngozi Road                                        0.8
Mukuba                                              0.9

Total Length                                     23.7

Mr Speaker, the Kitwe District Council intends to use the construction plant and equipment from the Rural Roads Rehabilitation Unit to construct a ring road to connect the Centre Street to the Ndola/Kitwe Road. The matter may be followed up with the Kitwe City Council, who are the appointed local authority for urban and township roads in the city.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Nyirenda: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that, up to now, the Mindolo Road has not been completed? I would also like to know why this is so.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, Mindolo Road is one of the roads earmarked for rehabilitation in the Annual Work Plan. We are, however, still waiting for funds to implement the plan.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!
Mr L. J. Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Works and Supply how many times they will re-advertise these roads and indicate that they will be done in this or that year and when we ask about progress, we are told that they will do them when funds are available. Why do you advertise the roads when there are no funds?

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, our role is to ensure that we find contractors. Your role, as hon. Members, is to allocate funding.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mulongoti: As soon as the Treasury has the resources, we will be ready to implement.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Msichili (Kabushi); Mr Speaker, in one of our meetings with the permanent secretary, most hon. Members of Parliament from the Copperbelt agreed that we should construct this ring road which should connect …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business for suspended from 1615 hours until 1630 hours.


Mr Msichili: Madam Speaker, most of these local councils had plans to divert traffic from passing through town centres. I would like to find out when this ring road, which will divert traffic from passing through town, will be constructed.

Mr Mulongoti: The hon. Member for Kabushi, who is also a councillor, is aware that a ring road will be in the jurisdiction of the council. Our answer is that as soon as Kitwe City Council is ready, and prioritise it, it will be done.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mwenya (Nkana): Madam Speaker, Kitwe City Council has prioritised the roads in Kitwe and we have made a lot of noise over these roads. Could the hon. Minister of Works and Supply confirm that it is because of poverty of leadership in that ministry that the roads have not been done?

Hon. Government Members: Aah!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, if only the hon. Member could spend more time on development issues as opposed to organising riots …


Mr Mulongoti: …there would be more progress in that city. Our difficulty is that with that kind of leadership, we will have more damage to the infrastructure than development.

Madam Speaker, I would like to urge the hon. Member to spend more time pushing for projects and helping the people of Kitwe to develop.

Mr Kambwili: You are the High Commissioner to Zambia.

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I can equally hear another hon. Member from Roan, being very riotous.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can we follow our procedures correctly? There is no need for people to heckle. Depending on the type of question one asks, it will invite a kind of answer. Therefore, there should be no complaints. The Chair will guide when it gets out of hand.

The hon. Minister may respond to the question and not to the hecklers.

Mr Mulongoti: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for that guidance.

Madam, I was saying that I am providing very able leadership,…

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mulongoti:…but I need the support of the hon. Member from Nkana. Without his support, it will not be possible for us to help unless he can use his abundant energy to help guide the council to plan for those projects without difficulties. We are at his disposal when he wants us.

 I thank you, Madam.


24. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Energy and Water Development:

(a) what the total indebtedness of TAZAMA Pipelines Limited was as of June, 2009;

(b) what the future plans of the company were; and

(c) when a new board of directors would be appointed.

Mr Mbewe: Madam Speaker, the total indebtedness of TAZAMA Pipelines Limited as at June, 2009 was US $53,349,997 equivalent to K257,744,791,000.

Madam Speaker, the company has embarked on a five-year Corporate Plan effective 1st April, 2000 and among the major future plans are the following:


(a) continued replacement of weak areas along the pipeline including replacement of twenty-two kilometre twelve-inch pipeline between Ilula and Iringa at an estimated cost of U S $ 13, million;

(b) converting the pipeline to start pumping finished products as was before the refinery was put up. (This will be subject to the Government’s approval);

(c) installation of SCADA system for automated pipe operation and leak detection. ( the budget is about US $2.5 million); and

(d) intelligent pigging of the line to determine the state of the pipeline. The last inspection was in 1998. Budget about U S $2 million.

Plant and Equipment

The following will be done:

(a) motorisation of pump drivers to replace current diesel engines. This will be implemented once problems of electrical power deficits in Zambia and Tanzania are resolved; and

(b) capital purchase of equipment for pipeline maintenance, telecommunication, cathodic protection and other areas of operations as continued in the five-year corporate plan.


Discussions are in progress between TAZAMA and the Ministry of Energy and Water Development on the way forward on the long-term loans the company has contracted with the Government and possible ways of recapitalising the company.

Human Resource

Human Resource Department and training needs are contained in the five-year corporate plan and these have already started being implemented. The company has also a training programme which is being implemented.

Ndola Fuel Terminal

Madam Speaker, the rehabilitation and modernisation of the infrastructure at Ndola Fuel Terminal has been earmarked at an estimated cost of US $2.4 million

Madam Speaker, on the Zambian side, the Chairman of the Board who is the Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Energy and Water Development and the TAZAMA Managing Director are members of the board by virtue of their positions. The Permanent Secretary was appointed to the board on 12th November, 2007 while the Managing Director of TAZAMA was appointed on 7th December, 1999.

Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Mr D. Mwila: Madam Speaker, this company has been making losses for the past five years. Looking at the plans which the hon. Minister has mentioned, I would like to find out - because I did not get him clearly - whether the money is coming from the National Treasury or somewhere else.

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. Member for that follow-up question.

As we heard from the Deputy Minister’s response, the company is endevouring, within its own resources, to undertake some of the projects as their own cost. The cost which they will fail to meet then, they may need to get further financial assistance from the Government.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, if I heard the hon. Deputy Minister correctly, the last intelligent pigging of the pipeline was in 1998. Why has there been so much time in between intelligent pigging of the pipeline to ensure that it is working properly?

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, if I may be allowed to quote, the Deputy Minister said that one of the activities that is being undertaken is to intelligently pig the line to determine the state of the pipeline. The last inspection was in 1998 and the budget is US $2 million.

I would like to assure the hon. Member for Luapula and the nation at large that pigging – I do not know whether people know what a pig is. Pigging is a little device which goes in the pipeline to clean it. That is done on a very regular basis. Every time a shipment is offloaded in the tanks in Dar-Es-Salaam, there is a pig because the crude that is imported picks up dirt through the water in the process of shipping from the ship to the inland tanks. Therefore, before that crude is pumped to the refinery in Ndola, there is a pig that is put in the pipeline to clean it. Therefore, what might have been lacking here is, maybe, an inspection, but in terms of the crude, I would like to assure you that this is done every time a ship is offloaded in Dar-Es-Salaam.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, about two months into the Third Session of this Assembly, We passed a Bill in this House which served to protect or cocoon TAZAMA from seizure of its assets by court orders from creditors. Could the hon. Minister tell us whether this act has been revoked or it is actually being used and who are the creditors in question if it has.

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, although that Bill was passed in this House, to date, there have been no institutions that have tried to seize any TAZAMA assets. I would like to assure the House that that was just in the interest of the nation. As we are all aware, TAZAMA is a very strategic industry which supplies fuel and drives this economy. Therefore, as we indicated at that time, this Bill was passed, in national interest, to protect this company from those who might just want to seize its assets.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Kambwili: Madam Speaker, if I got the hon. Deputy Minister correctly, he stated that this company owes various creditors US $53 million. May I know the tentative programme the Government has put in place with TAZAMA to liquidate this debt or can I take it that the insulation of TAZAMA was meant to prevent it from paying the US $53 million debt?

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, all corporations or businesses incur debt and, sometimes, their financial positions are in black. In this case, as was indicated, TAZAMA Pipelines has a debt of about US $53 million, the bulk of which is owed to the Government of the Republic of Zambia which it secured on its behalf. Arrangements are in place to ensure that as the company operates, it pays back this debt to the Treasury. Part of the other debt is to financial institutions, in this case, the African Development Bank and the European Investment Bank. TAZAMA is undertaking all efforts to pay back this debt.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Msichili: Madam Speaker, I wish to differ with the hon. Minister when he says that each time …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Ask your question and do not differ with the hon. Minister.

Mr Msichili: Madam Speaker, I think I would want to have more clarification from the hon. Minister when he says that each time they receive a shipment, they put a pig in the line. A pig is only put when …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, you are not there to explain, but to ask. If you know it, then do not ask.


Mr Msichili: Madam Speaker, my question is that, sometimes, this country experiences fuel shortages. What is the Government doing about finishing the construction of the tank which they started building about ten years ago and is still not finished yet?

Mr Konga: Madam Speaker, the 40,000,000-litre tank which the hon. Member of Parliament for Kabushi is referring to was finished in April and is awaiting commissioning by the Government any time soon. If he is a member of the constituency in which that facility lies, I would advise that he takes more interest in the activities of his constituency.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.


25. Mr Chanda (Kankoyo) asked the Minister of Communications and Transport how many public service vehicle drivers had their licences revoked due to causing death by dangerous driving in Lusaka, Ndola and Kitwe, from 2005 to 2009.

Mr Mubika: Madam Speaker, road traffic offences that cause death such as reckless and dangerous driving are not handled by the Road Transport and Safety Agency (RTSA). The power to endorse, suspend and cancel driving licences due to these offences is administered by the courts of law, in particular, the High Court. According to the report submitted by the High Court, there has been no public service driver’s licence that has been revoked due to causing death by dangerous driving in Lusaka, Ndola and Kitwe.

However, RTSA has, to date, suspended thirty-seven driving licences for offences such as fraudulent obtaining of licences and perceived incompetence on the part of the driver.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Mr Chanda: Madam Speaker, may I find out if the ministry has any capacity of tracing any erring drivers in the country?

The Minister of Communications and Transport (Professor Lungwangwa): Madam Speaker, the answer is, yes. In the response we have indicated that those drivers who are found wanting have their licences revoked by RTSA and this is an indication of the capacity to do what the hon. Member is asking.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.




Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for the opportunity given to me to debate on the Motion on the Floor.

Madam, I will take Hon. Muntanga’s debate as my own. He pointed out that eight months ago, we had another Presidential Opening Speech and eight months is not sufficient time for the normal human pregnancy. Therefore, very little could have been expected to happen within eight months. In fact, many of these things reported in this speech are not even pregnancies. They do not even qualify as plans for pregnancies ...


Dr Scott: … such as the exploration for oil in the North-Western Province or, maybe, they qualified the first date.


Dr Scott: The exploration for oil in the North-Western Province is a matter that, really, should be put to one side until there is proof of something to show - a little cup of oil, maybe, or a little bottle of gas so that we know that we are actually approaching somewhere rather than simply constantly fantasising or speculating about what may or may not be found. To be reasonable, I think, one has to say, given the recession, the shortage of revenues, it is even less likely that, in eight months, much progress can be reported.

Therefore, what I would like to do is pick up or chase one or two of the hares that have been set running by other speakers, notably on the other side of the House, such as the hon. Member of Parliament for Chienge, the hon. Deputy Minister for Southern Province, amongst others, who are, maybe, not expecting to be remembered in twenty-four hours.


Dr Scott: Firstly, I want to sympathise with Hon. Katele Kalumba for confessing to us that he had Stockholm Syndrome where somebody holds hostages, falls in love with his captives and defends them.


Dr Scott: I feel very sorry for him and I wish him a quick recovery.


Dr Scott: I was also very pleased by his use of talk time given to him by Mr Speaker to attack the Pact.

If I were in any doubt that the Pact is a good idea, he would have reassured me. He surely knows in his basic psychological way that he is revealing his own concerns and, perhaps, his own feeling of impetus in the face of the Pact and that if he had stuck to other subjects, we would doubt among ourselves whether we had something serious going.

Madam Speaker, I also want to start following up the warning by my companion, here, Hon. Kambwili, who raised the question of Soweto Market. What is happening at Soweto Market should warn and remind us that this is not a one-party State and by that I mean that when a particular party gets elected into power and forms the Government, the officials of the party, those who fund the party, are not now part of the Government by virtue of being members of the party. When pressure comes on to the Government, then certain Government officials succumb to it because they are aware of their rewards for winning the election. If one allows this to completely overturn the rights of long-term stall holders in Soweto Market, who number 2,500, those stalls now become the property of middlemen, cadres or speculators who can then charge what they want for other people to use those stalls. When that happens, you allow the governing party to undermine your own Government because the very Soweto is the factory for pushing people into the streets to conduct their business.

Madam Speaker, the same vendors you are trying to remove from the streets are being manufactured by the same Government policy. I respect Hon. Munkombwe very much and I wished that he could be the hon. Minister for the Northern Province and not Southern Province because when I led a delegation of Opposition Members of Parliament and officials to the Ukusefya Pang’wena Ceremony, I am sure he could have provided sitting for us. As it was, we were supposed to sit on the floor, whilst the cadres of the MMD, and not complaining about the Government officials, about His Honour the Vice-President and the Permanent Secretary, but the ‘partification’ - The MMD‘fication’ - of that traditional ceremony where there is even a cross membership between the National Executive Committee of the MMD …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Can I guide that we have a Motion that we are debating on the Floor of the House. We should not bring in issues that may not be so necessary to us. Can you come back to the Motion on the Floor of the House?

Mr Kambwili: Na ba Munkombwe efyo balelanda mailo, babalekelefye.

Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, I am thanking His Excellency the President for his address and I am at the same time filling in some of the holes in that Address. Some of the areas of neglect, for example, the question of policy of the Government, vis a vis traditional rulers, is missing from this particular Presidential Address. I feel it is a very important area, not just in winning votes, pretending that you are doing something about tourism, but the actual management of this country. It is important that the traditional rulers be involved. The Opposition should also involve itself through councils, and through its constituencies, in helping the Government to develop Zambia. And then, we must have mutual respect. In Bemba, as I understand it, there is saying that goes ‘umuchinshi tabalomba’, meaning you cannot force respect out of somebody. In English, it is ‘mutual respect is needed for respect to exist.’

Madam Speaker, I respect Hon. Kalumba who respects me and there is no problem, but if wants me to sit on the floor when I get to Chienge and clap my hands and say, ‘Kanabesa’, then there will be a problem in the future…

Mr Chilembo: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Kambwili: You are a finished lawyer, iwe, ikalafye.

Mr Chilembo: Madam Speaker, I seek your very serious ruling. Is it in order for the hon. Member to continue debating what was not stated or what does not appear in the Presidential Speech, but concentrate on matters which are not even connected to the speech? Is he in order? How far can we stray from the speech? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: You should have raised that point of order on Hon. Munkombwe as well.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member on the Floor has been guided. May the hon. Member continue, taking that point of order into consideration?

Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, there are many issues that were raised at the Bemba Traditional Ceremony that are in this book or that have a bearing on this book and it is better for me to quote, for example, Chief Mukwikile and what he asked for from the Government and what he complained about than to simply go through this document along with everybody else. I am not straying from the subject, but simply highlighting the subject.

Madam Speaker, one of the things that the chief complained about was that the vehicle that he had received, like many chiefs, has been on blocks from ten days after he received it because there are no spare parts. There is no maintenance plan and there is no provision for finances. What he wanted to know from the Government is what was meant by a vehicle for a chief. Was it meant to be something which runs for ten days and sits on blocks and looks at him?

He is alluding to one of the fundamental difficulties of governance in this country and that is our failure to produce maintenance for our assets. We talked about building a road to Kasaba Bay and a railway line to Mchinji, leaving behind railway lines and roads that are not functioning. Those new railway lines and roads that we are boasting of will, in turn, become decrepit and unusable as new roads, railways and so on and so forth are built. The chiefs’ small cry of despair from Chinsali where he is a chief was very significant in that context because he was not standing up to campaign for anybody except for his own people. He was not standing up to make trouble, but to give a voice to the many frustrations of many Zambian citizens. Yes, give me a car, but what are you going to do when it breaks down ten days later? Give me a road, but how are you going to maintain it and on what scheme?

Madam Speaker, another good point that the chief made was when he asked about who was going to look after the forests. Forests are mentioned at length in this document under the new forest plan. Forests are being despoiled all over this country. What the chief said is that the people should look after them. In fact, the long-standing traditional guardians of these forests are the chiefs. Therefore, the chief’s question is, “Where is the legislation and the money empowering us to look after our own natural environment because we are the correct people to do it?” I have not heard an answer to that since then, but I believe it is true. His chieftaincy lies between Shiwanga’ndu and Bwinjimfumu Forest Reserve which is an old glacial valley which contains trees which have survived from the ice age. This is a valuable natural resource  and one for which we need a solution to practically maintain. It is not just about workshops, another round of slogans and another round of pregnancies or suspected pregnancies.

Madam Speaker, another point made by the chief, and I do not wish to make too much of this, seeing that we have exchanged words about it before is that he asked for a re-visitation of the Witchcraft Act. The point he was making was that the Witchcraft Act actually criminalises the traditional authorities who are attempting to mediate between the people who believe in witchcraft because it lends credence to what the colonialists, when they passed the Act, regarded as a non-existent phenomenon. Even if that supernatural phenomenon is non-existent, the fact is that it forms part of the language, discourse of power and social organisation amongst villagers or the people living in traditional areas. He was asking us, as intelligent leaders, to look at that and see whether we could not produce a better version of that Act.

Mr Sichilima: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichilima: Madam Speaker, I did not wish to interrupt the leader of the delegation to Kusefya Pang’wena,…


Mr Sichilima: … hon. Member of Parliament for Lusaka Central. Is he in order to put the words in the mouth of the chief? I attended the ceremony and the chief never said the car was on the rocks after just ten days. Is the hon. Member in order not to mention, in his debate, that the PF leaders, whom he led, were actually so disrespectful by driving into the arena of the chief that the chief was so unhappy that he chased them away and also rejected their present. Is he in order not to mention this matter? I need your serious ruling, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili: Question!


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The point of order raises issues that took place where the Chair would find it difficult to verify right now and, therefore, the guidance is that misleading the House is never allowed. The hon. Member debating, therefore, will ensure that facts are stated in this House because even those who are not here and may be listening may dispute what is being said now on both sides and then the House may know that we were misled. The hon. Member may not add and exaggerate what may have happened since he has chosen to debate the Kusefya Pang’wena and the chiefs.

He may continue, please.

Mr Kambwili: Echo ba mumina, ulya.

Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, I would, of course, not wish to enter into an argument with my friend, the boxer and habitual raiser of points of order.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

This House has no boxers.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Can you withdraw that statement? There are only hon. Members in this House.


Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, I will withdraw it and substitute it with the man who resembles the picture on the front page of a newspaper.

Madam Deputy Speaker: What?

Dr Scott: He resembles a man I saw on the front page of a newspaper …


Mr Kambwili: Fighting.

Dr Scott: … engaged in what seems to be some sort of fist scrap.


Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: But, I am sure you will not object to my referring to him as a habitual raiser of points of order.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: To enter into an argument about what happened or did not happen or what sort of …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

The hon. Member may go into his debate instead of continuously justifying his line of debate.

Dr Scott: Madam Speaker, there are two short issues I wish to raise and I will take it outside the arena of the traditional ceremonies. First, I would like to warn my friend, the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives, the one who deals with peanuts. Yes, I have to warn him and it is a friendly warning in the sense that he has to be careful because there is a lion around the corner.

Regarding the extension of this Fertiliser Support Programme and maize buying programme to all corners of Zambia, even under the United national Independence party (UNIP), it is was understood that the system just worked because maize yields were high, the responsiveness to fertilisers was good in the Southern Province, parts of the Central, Copperbelt and Eastern provinces, and so long as the areas involved were not too far away from the plateau or off the ceiling of about 1,200 metres. As you can see, the potential yield of maize drops off. This is something I did not realise when I was a hon. Minister and, in fact, we were encouraging the most widespread growing of the crop. It was only more recently that it has come to be very clear that due to the much higher percentage of overcast skies in Luapula, Northern and even Western provinces, and the subsequent consequent lower temperatures of the soil, you have about the 25 per cent yield potential. I am talking, here, about doing everything absolutely by the text book, but you still get a 25 per cent drop due to the environmental conditions. I think it would be very sad to undermine the tradition of agriculture of Luapula, for example, which has an extremely diversified rich tradition of agriculture with many crops such as finger millet, cassava and so on and so forth. It would be sad to undermine that by extending this Fertiliser Support Programme which, in the end, is an unsustainable system in that area.

Madam Speaker, I feel a little sorry, although Kaoma is justifiable, to move the system further out, again, into the region of a geographically flat terrain. We are, again, threatening to undermine what was viable agriculture with something that is not viable in that context. There is more than one idea that can be made to work in agriculture. The one idea we have been practising for forty years is fertiliser, hybrid seed, National Marketing Board (NAMBOARD) or some buying agency of the Government, but there are many more ideas that can be made to work and enrich the poor people of this country than simply those.

Madam Speaker, the other point I would like to make is that parts of this speech which was delivered by His Excellency the President were not written by him, but by many people asked to produce one page or two-page contributions. There is a tendency in this country to lean towards something resembling the casual character of Burma. The casual character is sometimes described as a religion, but it is a system of practice by certain tribesmen in that place - in that forest - who received food and other goodies from aircraft that were flying overhead during the Second World War. Since that time, they have been building imitation airstrips, complete with control towers, packed firearms made of wood to try and hope that the pilots of the aircraft will look down and say, “Yes, I am going to land there”, and then they can get the food and other goodies.

Madam Speaker, I had the good fortune to have just been in Northern Mozambique for a brief holiday. We went to this booming tourist area around Pemba on the Indian Ocean coast. The infrastructure is hopeless. There is no road, the airstrips are made of gravel, dirt and stones. There is no power and the road is hanging like it is a door but, instead, in Zambia, we think, somehow, that the infrastructure has to come before the market and before the business.

We should be more selective and find out why people are not trying to beat down the road to Kasaba Bay. Before we construct a road, we should ask ourselves where people are trying to get to and what they want. I come from a tourist culture, I suppose, and I know that the people planning tourism in Zambia have never been tourists. Tourists are people and tourism has a mystic about it.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: We should not just be saying we are going to spend K200 billion on this road and so on and so forth. The South Luangwa National Park is world famous, but the road there is terrible. The beds and lodges in this park are always full. It is, therefore, justified to constuct a new road in this park. However, to build roads and hope that an aircraft in the sky will see the airstrip or road and come and land and bring people to invest …

Major Chizhyuka: Like manna from Heaven.

Dr Scott: … is, indeed, like manna falling from heaven, …


Dr Scott: … as my friend, the Major, would say. That is putting the cart before the horse.

Madam, with those few words, and I did not even mention ilombas once, I will sit down.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott left his microphone on.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Switch off your microphone, please.

The Deputy Minister of Gender and Women in Development (Ms Changwe): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to add my voice to the Motion on the Floor of the House for the exposition of public policy. I would like to begin by thanking the hon. Members of Parliament, some of whom are on your left, who spoke very well yesterday. I have in mind the hon. Members for Pambashe and Bahati.

Mr Kambwili: Question!


Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, it is very clear that when we say that we are a working and listening Government, there are rational hon. Members of Parliament in this House who, as national leaders, are able to attest to this fact. The two hon. Members of Parliament, I think, including the hon. Member for Kamfinsa, were actually very categorical on this matter and they did so without fear, favour or prejudice.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, clearly the Zambian people, and through …

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Madam.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Hon. Member, I cannot hear anything unprocedural with what the hon. Minister is saying.

The hon. Minister may continue.

Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, I thank you for your protection. I also would like to thank His Excellency the President, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda, for a very well thought-out speech that he gave to the nation through this House. A number of issues came out from the President’s Speech, …

Mr Kambwili stood up to leave.



Ms Changwe: … but I will not endeavour to deal with all of them.

Madam Speaker, I want to state that what the President said with regard to the issues relating to the gender dimension of development in this country are real and are also a progressive step towards national development and the participation of women. I want to quote from the President’s Speech where he says:

“You will recall that during the last Session, I stated that I would appoint women on merit. I have since appointed a number of women to senior Government positions as testimony to the confidence I have in our womenfolk to take up positions of leadership. I will, therefore, continue appointing more women to positions of leadership.”

Madam Speaker, I want to state that the pursuit for gender equality is, now, widely endorsed internationally, regionally and locally in Zambia and that it is actually an important ideal towards the issues of attaining social and, indeed, gender justice.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, as a result of this, Zambia, like any other Southern African Development Community (SADC) and African country, has delved into devising mechanisms, strategies and intervenes that will ensure that we narrow the disparity gap in terms of men and women participating in our national economy. These mechanisms that this Government has put in place have ensured that the wage gap between men and women is narrowed.

Madam Speaker, I also want to state that the participation of women in Zambia in the socio-economic and political spheres cannot be over emphasised, all because of the good strategies that this Government has put in place. The Government has managed to incorporate issues that concern women and that are going to increase the participation of women and men in development.

Madam Speaker, there are a number of institutional mechanisms and reforms that have taken place in the public sector which can attest to this good move. My debate will revolve around the participation of women in these sectors socially, economically and politically.

Madam Speaker, allow me to talk about the issues of political participation of women for obvious reasons. I want to thank the President of Zambia and, indeed, the Government for listening to the calls of the Zambian people. The people cried out and stated that they wanted a review of the Constitution. As a listening Government, we did constitute the National Constitutional Conference (NCC) …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Changwe: … which has already begun articulating issues of equality in society and equity in partnership. I must, at this point, lament explicitly and take a swipe at what I will call non-genuine organisations. It does not matter how one interprets that but, to me, they are non-genuine organisations. Non-genuine organisations and other political groups in this country have been crying out that we are not actually bridging the gap in terms of issues of equality and equity.

Madam Speaker, there are ratified international protocols and instruments that Zambia is a signatory to. In my right frame of mind, I thought the first step towards domestication of these protocols is through constitutionalism. I am very disappointed that we have, in this country, non-genuine organisations that have been masquerading as representing the interests of women and vulnerable and marginalised groups such as the youth, children and differently-abled people. However, it defeats the logical sequence of reasoning that these people who purport to exist because they are representing these vulnerable groups decide to stay away from the deliberative process that is going to impact on the policies of this country.

Madam Speaker, allow me to salute the men and women participating in the NCC.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Changwe: These men and women have risen to the challenge and are now genuinely advocating for equality. I want to thank them because, so far, we have managed to score successes in terms of addressing gender disparities.

Madam Speaker, as I said last time on the Floor of this House - or was it at NCC - what I see here in Parliament as the political representation of women is simply window dressing.

Madam Speaker, I thought that hon. Members of Parliament were elected to represent vulnerable groups of women, youths and children. We should realise that the composition of society, actually, shows that there are more women than men participating in the electoral process to elect all of us here, and yet people decide to stay away from the constitution-making process.

Madam Speaker, I doubt and wonder whether, in their dealings, these political parties and non-genuine organisations have any ton of good faith, honesty or moral uprightness in them. This is unfortunate. To me, what this simply shows is that most of these political parties and non-genuine organisations are simply advocates of modern imperialism. They are funded by cosmopolitan groups of certain places in this world to concoct disability and instability in the governance of this country.

Madam Speaker, we are not going to allow such a situation. We have managed, so far, through the NCC process, to push for a proportional representation (PR) system which is going to ensure that a considerable number of women, as well as persons with disabilities, come to Parliament.

Madam Speaker, the same people who have stayed out of this process will, tomorrow, rise on the platform and claim that they are the ones who started this process and that they are the ones who are bringing more women into the PR system. I am going to urge my electorate never to accept political parties that have not been part of the decisions made at the NCC.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, I want to state that it is only through this constitution-making process that we can achieve democracy and also dispense democratic principles effectively.

Madam Speaker, from what has happened so far, I can see that the new constitution will be inclusionary and transformatory in nature. It is going to encompass and incorporate ideational change that is going to impact on public policy.

Madam Speaker, as an activist and Deputy Minister in the Gender in Development Division, I will be failing in my duties if I do not recognise what this Government has done. We are going to go down in history as the first government to recognise that we need to change the constitution and that the PR system was introduced during the reign of Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, it is my hope that, one day, these radical oppositional, and yet anti-State non-governmental organisations or non-genuine organisations will be eclipsed by the genuine advocates of equality in this country. We do not want to be cheated, but want people who are going to come on the platform and partner with everybody so that we can achieve this gender equality. Staying away from the conference, to me, simply shows myopic tendencies that are retrogressive, archaic and non-progressive. We must all condemn this kind of behaviour in this country.

Madam Speaker, at this point, I want to state that the PR system should not be abused. It must benefit those that it has targeted. However, we are not going to allow those who have not participated in this process to champion it. That, we shall not do.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, in addressing the issues of equality as they relate to the social stratification in this country, I quoted the President’s Speech where it said that he was going to appoint more women. Indeed, the gender parity index in this country, today, shows that more and more women have moved from a downward trend to upward social mobility, thereby bringing up a balance in the social stratification of society.

Madam Speaker, this is testimony to what the President said and I wanted to inform this House that with the increased numbers of women appointed, we are able to slowly bridge this gender gap. Believe it or not, these are issues that we should not shy away from and must give credit where it is due.

Madam Speaker, the President, in his speech, mentioned that, through the Ministry of Education, there was going to be more construction of schools, especially in rural areas. Madam Speaker, I must commend the President for this. I have always stated that the emancipating nature of education cannot be underscored. If anything, it should be over-emphasised because it is only through education that these marginalised groups can be emancipated.

Madam Speaker, the Ministry of Education has realised, through the political leadership there, that it is only education that can help women and girls to develop economically and be fully independent and able to sustain themselves. To this effect, I want to quote the former British Prime Minister, Mr Tony Blair, who said ‘Education, Education and more Education is the only key for the emancipation of women.’ I must commend the Ministry of Education and the President for having succeeded in constructing, at least, a number of classrooms, especially in rural areas. I know for sure that in the Central Province, a lot is being done and I am sure every hon. Member of Parliament here can attest to the fact that in every constituency, there is a school and classrooms being constructed.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, I also want to delve a little on the issues of health. I am very happy that the issue of health has been articulated ably by the President. I consulted the Acting Minister of Health, who is also a medical doctor, to get my facts right before presentation. He told me that, indeed, the Government has managed, through the Ministry of Health, to reduce maternal mortality and morbidity. The Government has also managed to reduce the infant mortality rate. This is all because of the good policies, strategies and interventions this Government has put in place. I am also happy that some of the hospitals that are constructed are in rural areas.

Madam Speaker, I must report to this House that my people in Mkushi North are very happy with the idea of mobile hospitals and nobody will go there to change their position and …

Hon. Government Member: Even in Namwala!

Ms Changwe: … indeed, even in Namwala, because they have seen that this is a positive trend towards development.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, it is unquestionable to state that there is a direct link between female fertility and education levels. The Ministry of Health has worked very well in this area in terms of reproductive education, but this has also worked, interfacing with more and more access to education and we have seen this through the programmes of this Government.

Madam Speaker, somebody in this House said they did not see any correlation between the Fifth National Development Plan and, indeed, the Vision 2030. That is what I call myopic tendency.

Madam Speaker, it is very clear that there are some positive …

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Madam.

Madam Deputy Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Major Chizhyuka: Madam Speaker, there was mention, from the debater, the Deputy Minister on the Floor, who had earlier indicated that some hon. Members of Parliament were rational, meaning, therefore, that those who are not in the same bracket are irrational. She went further to state that the mobile hospitals are a popular facet in Namwala. Is she in order to suggest that this is so?

Mr Mabenga: Your sister.

Major Chizhyuka: Yes, my sister. I need protection from you, Madam, …

Madam Deputy Speaker: You look protected, just continue.


Major Chizhyuka: … from the Western Province Ministers. Is she in order to suggest that the mobile hospitals are popular in Namwala given that, in Namwala, we have no mobile hospital and secondly, 80 per cent of the area is waterlogged and, therefore, no mobile hospital can access the areas? Is she in order to suggest that in Namwala we are content with the mobile hospitals which are not there? I beg your ruling, Madam Speaker.

Madam Deputy Speaker: The hon. Deputy Minister of Gender and Women in Development will continue with all those considerations.

You may continue, please.

Ms Changwe: Thank you, Madam. I am actually surprised that the hon. Member, who raised the point of order …

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Just continue.

Ms Changwe: … and is my brother, knows that I have first hand information from my relatives there. They told me that they needed mobile boats and Zambia Flying Doctor Services and so he cannot come here and say that.


Ms Changwe: Madam Speaker, on the issue of gender-based violence, allow me, also, to state that the President alluded to this in his speech. This Government has realised that the contribution of women towards the development agenda cannot be watered down because of the violence that we have reduced. Violence retards the progress of women, their self-esteem and assertiveness, but credit must be given to this Government for initiating and involving almost all the stakeholders in the consultative process. I know that there are a few grey areas with regard to the title of the Bill and certain issues like marital rape. However, I want to say that time has come when the male patriarchal system must give way to the feminist discourse because we are partners in development.

Madam Speaker, we have heard of many cases of violence such as defilement and so on and so forth, but this will soon be a thing of the past. I want to urge hon. Members who were still dragging their feet on certain issues when we were carrying out consultations because they were saying they would be in conflict with the cultural norms. There are certain cultural norms that we must retain, but we must discard, immediately, those that are archaic and retrogressive. I want to request hon. Members to support this Bill once it is presented to Parliament.

Once again, Madam Speaker, allow me to thank the President for a well-thought out and inspiring speech that is going to pave way to the direction of development. For those of us who gave a massive “yes vote” to President Banda, we can re-assure him that we are returning in 2011.

With these remarks, I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear!

Mr Hachipuka (Mbabala): Thank you, Madam Speaker, for affording me the opportunity to contribute to this debate. I shall not bore you as regards the quality of the speech. I think what is important is that we have an opportunity to put forward how this country must proceed.

Madam Speaker, I want, firstly, to use this opportunity to refer to two of our friends we lost, that is, the late hon. Deputy Minister of Lands, Mr Hamir, who commonly referred to me as his uncle because of my intimate relationship with his family. May His Soul Rest In Peace.

However, allow me to use this opportunity to coin my debate on the genesis of pacts.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka:  I want to use this debate to refer to the late hon. Minister of Local Government and Housing, Mr Tetamashimba, who I knew very well. I met him in the late Mr Mazoka’s house in 1997/98. I have not known any better politician than the late Mr Tetamashimba. He was a very strong politician.

In my intention to discuss the issue of pacts, he was one of the first people who were sent by the late Mr Mazoka, the President of the United Party for National Development (UPND), to try and mediate between the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) and UPND to form a government of national unity. It was an attempt, but it did not work out and so he was a casualty. That was the beginning of pacts. If my colleague, the hon. Minister of Labour and Social Security, were here, he would attest to my statement.

I believed in the man. He was very strong when he crossed into MMD. He was a very strong parliamentarian and he would always stir the boat, but that is the nature of politics.

Now, Madam Speaker, I will leave the subject of pacts until the end because I want to deal with specific areas within the President’s Speech. I want to pick up from where the hon. Minister for Southern Province left and ask the Government to continue assisting me in my constituency.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes.

Mr Hachipuka: Please, do not relent or withdraw. This also includes the hon. Minister of Works and Supply. I can also refer to my brother, Hon. Mwaanga, that he is aware that the road from Nimfwe to Magwenauka has just been graded. You are also aware that for years, we have not been able to work on the road from Macha, and Hon. Munkombwe can attest to this. The Ring Road which goes to Sinkwiya and comes into Mbabala is about to be completed. For me, that is my major cry for my people. Please, hon. Minister of Works and Supply and Hon. Munkombwe, I need that road to be completed. We have never had such a road where you can drive 150 kilometres an hour in that area and you know the area very well. I need that.

I also want to appeal to the hon. Minister responsible for the Constituency Development Fund (CDF). I know the acting hon. Minister is not here, but you are a Government and you should be able to help me. I need CDF because the rains will soon be here and there is a road we have agreed to be worked on from Pemba to the junction of the Chitongo/Choma Road and the Pemba Road, hon. Minister.

We have agreed that we will have to grade the Pemba Road before the start of the rains. However, we have also agreed on the need to buy fuel using the CDF. I need help. I need the CDF to be released in order to be able to do that road.

Madam Speaker, I also want to add to the issues Hon. Muntanga raised regarding the Choma/Chitongo Road. I am happy, as the area hon. Member of Parliament, that the construction of this road has started this year.

 Hon. Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: Mr Speaker, I appeal to this Government to complete working on that road. It is very important. That road has been on the drawing board for many years. Hon. Members of Parliament and hon. Ministers have come and gone, but the road has never been attended to.

I appeal to you my colleagues. I am addressing you Hon. Mwaanga and Hon. Munkombwe, through Madam Speaker, because we all come from that area. I need the works on that road to be concluded.

You all must be aware that the bridges at Lwanga and Mulela are under construction. If the works are not concluded, that area will be impassable and our people will not move between Namwala and Choma.

Madam Speaker, about a month ago, K13 billion had been released and thanks to the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning for ensuring that the project be further developed. I need those projects to be concluded.

Madam Speaker, I have a team in my constituency that uses the CDF very progressively and I am very happy that most of the schools have been worked. I want to place on record that I need those projects to be concluded.

Madam Speaker, allow me to also to commend the efforts that were put in by Hon. Major Chizhyuka in ensuring that the Monze/Chitongo Road was worked on. That road was impassable, but I am glad that it was worked on. However, we need more work on it. I thank my son-in-law, Hon. Major Chizhyuka, for putting up a gallant fight through the various systems within the Government to ensure that the road was worked on..

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: To us, it is all about development. We need your support to see those projects through.

Madam Speaker, allow me also to refer to the issue of the NCC which the President referred to. I am directing my question to the Chairman of the NCC, those associated with the management of the NCC and, indeed, the Government. Why is it difficult to explain the process that we are going through at the NCC? I have difficulties appreciating why a Government such as yours cannot explain that we have five committee reports to deal with and that it is taking us two weeks per report and, also, that there are 500 people at the conference and that for democratic governance, at least fifty to 100 people must speak on each article for us to get consensus. Why is it difficult for you? I get fed up when I hear everybody saying that we should produce the NCC Report in a week’s time when you know it is not possible. Why are you quiet?

Hon. Government Members: Hammer!

Mr Hachipuka: Why are you not speaking?


Mr Hachipuka: Madam Speaker, in the previous debates, you have seen me get angry with this Government because there are certain things that would not happen if the UPND was in power. Why is it that they cannot explain a straightforward point? These days, we read a lot of newspapers and everybody has become an expert on governance.


Mr Hachipuka: Why are they so disorganised? I think it is about time the Government issued a meticulous programme on the development path Zambia shall take, how long it will take to conclude some of the programmes and when it will report to the people the progress made. You, the literates, have to explain these programmes to the illiterates. There are many uneducated people in Zambia who are, at times, given the platform to speak. Even such people need to be explained to.

Madam Speaker, the issues regarding debt management which were referred to in the speech by the President are very serious. We are already heading into billions in terms of debt. I know that our needs are fairly substantial. It is possible that there is a great temptation to continue borrowing and doing all sorts of things with borrowed money. However, I think it is better to reinforce ourselves in terms of accountability and debt management. There are certain clauses in the proposed new constitution which have been adopted by the Public Finance Committee which will help in this regard. If we were able to come to this House to change the Budget Cycle, I see no reason why we cannot come to Parliament and sort out some of those contentious issues in the new Constitution.

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: Nothing stops us from doing that. Do we have to wait until the full Constitution is in place to sort out specific issues that the Zambians have agreed on and can be implemented right away? What is the problem of those in Government? They should not be cowards because they are in Government. Do we have to wait until 2011 when we come to power?


Mr Hachipuka: Madam Speaker, I want to come back to the point I made earlier about the genesis of pacts.

Mr Mulyata: Now, you will spoil your debate.

Mr Hachipuka: I will not spoil my debate.


Mr Hachipuka:  Madam Speaker, when we went for Presidential elections in 2008, there were pacts. There were political parties that supported the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD). We, in the United Party for National Development (UPND), and the Patriotic Front (PF) were the only ones that went it alone. You went into pacts and you won. Thanks to you, now we have also gone into a pact.  This pact has nothing to do with you, except I worry about the pact you have entered.

Hon. MMD Members: With whom?

Mr Mwiimbu: We know!

Mr Hachipuka: With a former President.


Mr Hachipuka: That is a pact because you want to fish from our waters. If you do not watch what you are doing with this new pact - it is a pact whether you like it or not …

Mr Mwiimbu: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: I hope this pact does not backfire because we expect this country to be governed properly. People who retire from anything just need to rest and be respected. When I retire from politics, I will sit back and expect people to respect me.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: I have no quarrel with you entering into pacts. However, when you start to break laws, you have to be very careful.

Hon. MMD Member: Which laws?

Mr Mwiimbu: You know!

Mr Hachipuka: They know.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hachipuka: I hope that, in our effort to get into pacts, we remember that there is tomorrow and that we have children and grandchildren beyond ourselves.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Dr Machungwa (Luapula): Madam Speaker, I thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion of Thanks to the President’s Speech which was delivered here on 18th September, 2009.

Madam Speaker, this is now the nineteenth speech I have listened to in this House. President Chiluba delivered ten, late President Mwanawasa delivered seven and now President Rupiah Banda has delivered two. The speech covered quite a number of issues ranging from social services, governance, commerce, trade and industry, agriculture, infrastructure, energy, mines and minerals development and other aspects of the economy. Predictably, there have been a lot of reactions and some of the reactions have been very negative even on the Floor of this House. Some reactions have been fairly positive. Some people have decided to be mute while some have been neutral.

Madam, the President’s Speech dealt with issues of concern to the people of Zambia.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa: The President has let out his proposals for dealing with the problems affecting Zambians. What is of interest to us, as hon. Members of Parliament, is whether the Government will actually be able to deliver. That should be our concern. Obviously, not everything is perfect. There are some gaps here and there, but there is substance. When people just come and say hollow, hopeless, recycled or such similar descriptions to describe the President’s Speech, it worries me. What are we trying to do as leaders? Can anyone realistically conclude that there was nothing worth talking about in the address of the President? Are we saying that the issues that he touched on are irrelevant to Zambia? We may not agree with everything, but we still have to be honest. In my view, there is substance in the speech. I have listened to nineteen speeches of that kind. A speech is just a speech. What we are expecting is delivery.

Madam Speaker, let me talk about the role of leadership. The President, as a political leader of this country is expected to provide a vision, mission and a set of objectives and inspire the population towards attaining those objectives to better the lives of Zambians. This is the role of the President and his Government. We are also leaders here. We are expected to give some hope and guidance to the people we represent. After all, if we want to come back, we must inspire our people, just like the Government must inspire, collectively, as the leadership in this country. We are responsible to the people we represent, the people of Zambia, to help provide for a better Zambia, but what are we seeing? Sometimes, you wonder when you hear the insults of the top leaders and, sometimes, leaders insulting each other, and belittling of work programmes and trying to bring each other and the programmes down.

Madam Speaker, every single day, 365 days in a year, if you read some of the stories from the press or listen to the radio or television, you would think that Zambia was on fire or the country was about to explode.

Madam Speaker, I recently met a colleague who was a minister in a neighbouring country and we had worked very closely together at some point. We got into a discussion and he said, “Hon. Machungwa, what is happening in your country?” I asked him what he meant. He said, “It seems like the country is on fire. Everything you read shows that something has gone wrong somewhere. What is happening and yet when I visited the country, it was all quiet and peaceful?”

Madam, it appears that we seem to enjoy knocking each other down. It reminds me of the time I was a student at the University of Zambia. We were about 1,400 students when I was in first year and there were only 180 females out of the 1,400. So, everybody who went there had to show character. What I am trying to say is that we must give some hope and inspiration to the people right now even though we are hoping to get into power. It is not possible for every one of us in this House to be in Government at any one time. Some have to be in the Opposition and others have to lead, but the country must survive. We cannot destroy this country by envious fighting among ourselves. Of course, the politicking must be there, but we must know that this country must survive. Look at some of our colleagues who have died.

Madam Speaker, the hon. Member for Mbabala described the late Hon. Tetamashimba as a formidable politician who would come out like an unguided missile when giving his speech. Unfortunately, we lost Hon Tetamashimba and many others. All of us will go, but the country and the people we represent in our constituencies will still be here. So, it is in our interest to ensure that we try to build the country even though we cannot get into leadership. It seems that Zambians enjoy knocking each other down, being malevolent and malicious. If one is doing well, they are considered to be criminal or a thief. If they have got some work, people think it must be through fraud. The issue of hard work is not considered. If you try to do something which is progressive, people start thinking that you are doing it is because you are fraudulent. I do not know if, maybe, that is our culture. 

Madam Speaker, in some areas of Zambia, if a person gets to old age, say sixties, seventies and eighties, people will begin to say that that person is a witch or wizard. How come he or she has not died when everybody else has? What we should do is try to learn from that person what kind of life style made him or her to live that long. We should not pull them down. In some areas, for a person to become successful, he or she has to consult a witch-doctor. If you own many things and are very successful in a village, people think that you must have used an ilomba or other things. This is unfortunate. We are prepared to see foreigners do well just because they are foreigners, but we are not prepared to support our fellow Zambians. For example, people come to this House and condemn the Second Republican President for having sold Government houses very cheaply to Zambians, but if they were sold at a high price, some of the people in Matero would not have afforded to by them.

Madam Speaker, what is more worrying is the fact that even in debates of the last few days, speakers have been talking about the councils being robbed of their resources. Who would want to live in a country where the Government is rich and has resources and yet all the people are extremely poor? What kind of people do you want? Do you want our people to be migrant workers in the cities and go back to the villages when they retire to die?

We are trying to right a wrong and give people something and you come and condemn it. One leader even jumped on an ant-hill and said never again would we buy houses for K15,000, which is the price of a shirt. Just because you can afford it does not mean everyone can. There are others who cannot afford it and you condemn the one leader who tried to empower the people. It is shameful if that is the kind of leadership you want. Perhaps, if the houses had been sold to foreigners then we would have been happy.

Madam Speaker, I would like to quote from a seven page essay …


Madam Speaker: Order!

Dr Machungwa: …written by a white American undergraduate student who came to Zambia with his black Zambian girlfriend from Eastern Province, by the name of Margaret, and was also studying in America. They came for a three month holiday. He liked the country and thought that the people were very hospitable. However, after staying here for three months, he started wondering why he was being offered jobs and yet he was not even qualified. He had not even completed his Degree.

Madam Speaker, I would like to quote:

“without any specific qualifications, I was being courted by quite a few agencies which would not be possible in the United Sates.  I slowly began to see numerous realities, that are rather uncomfortable to describe, happening in Zambia.”

Madam Speaker, I would like to quote further:

“One undeniable truth is that someone like myself, a foreigner, was valued more than any Zambian. It was as if what I am made of is inherently superior, intelligent, knowledgeable and rich. I could literally do anything I pleased without serious retribution. If I was involved in a fight, for instance, with a black Zambian, and which I instigated, it is quite likely that the police would immediately assume my innocence and batter the other poor fellow before realising the truth.”

Madam Speaker, he goes on to say and I quote:

“foreign dignitaries probably have much more power than the Zambian Government itself in the sovereign Republic of Zambia.  The attention paid to the words of a foreign official is paramount.”

Madam Speaker, his observation was that a simple clerical officer from some embassy would make a statement and it would get prominence and the Republican President or a senior Government official would be doubted. He was shocked.

Madam Speaker, allow me to quote a little bit more so that I can talk about something else:

“What is disconcerting is that they even arrested the former chief of Zambia’s version of the CIA, who I hear has now fled the country.” 

Madam Speaker, this was written over a year ago. Please, allow me to continue. I quote further:

“This is the guy who probably knows every little secret about the impoverished nation. Does this mean he is going to have to explain in court how the Government goes about its secret business for the world to hear? This would never happen in the United States or Israel.

Hon. Members: Shame!

Dr Machungwa: Now, this is an American who also has relatives in Israel. He goes on to say and I quote:

“Zambians are prideless and accommodating people who would have bent backwards for us. The divisiveness that exists in the country makes them easy to control. There is no doubt that a country willing to risk its sovereignty and security for political gain and maliciousness can even be annexed today. My words are not based on prejudice or racism, but fact and experience. These words can be sung even louder by Zambians themselves.”

Madam this is an undergraduate student who came and stayed in Zambia. This is what we seem to specialise in as Zambians. Instead of trying to build each other and point out the mistakes and help each other improve, we would rather come and stand here and bring everybody down. How do you expect your Government to move forward? Some day, you are going to sit on that side of the House expecting to receive some support.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa: To what degree are Zambians going to outdo each other? What is even more worrying is the fact that in our desire to fight and annihilate each other politically, even our governance institutions are being threatened.

Madam Speaker, in this country, we have three tiers of the State: the Legislature, Executive and the Judiciary.  There is supposed to be separation of powers. We are now witnessing a situation where, when courts make decisions, some members of the legislature now want to direct Constitutional Offices to act on their own prejudices.

Hon. Opposition Member: Corruption is corruption.

Dr Machungwa: For example, if I read Article 56 of the current Constitution, referring to the provisions regarding the Director of Public Prosecutions, it is a long Article and I will, therefore, only read a few quotations from some of the clauses. It says:

“The powers conferred on the Director of Public Prosecutions shall be vested in him to the exclusion of any other person or authority.”

Madam Speaker that is Clause 5 and it goes on at Clause 7:

“In the exercise of powers conferred on him by this Article, the Director of Public Prosecutions shall not be subject to the direction or control of any other person or authority.”

Madam Speaker, what we are now trying to do, even as hon. Members, is direct the DPP to do certain things. This is not justice. How many people …


Madam Speaker: Order!

Shouting and screaming should not be allowed in the House at all. You are honourable and are expected to behave as such. The Chair will not tolerate that, no matter what.

You may continue.

Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, we are now trying to direct what the DPP should do. There are so many cases that happen in this country and the DPP can decide to prosecute or enter a nolle prosequi, to appeal or not appeal. Now, when we have a case that has been so politicised, those who hoped to build their political fortunes …

Mr Mukanga: Thieves should be brought to book.

Dr Machungwa: …on the ashes of the Second Republican President want to violate the Constitution. We do not want to destroy this country for the future. Let us build ourselves.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa: One day, you may have the fortune of leading this country. We expect the laws of this country to be followed.

 Madam Speaker, as I conclude, I would like to say something on the Fertiliser Support Programme. This is a programme that has been availed to a limited number of people in the country. There is very little evidence to show that they have done much better. Therefore, if it is going to be there, it is much better if it covers more people. I fully support the President that more people should be included rather than just a few people.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa: Finally, there is an issue that has been mentioned with regard to the windfall tax and negotiating with the mines. I wish to caution the Government that we gave in a lot by removing the windfall tax. When you negotiate with them, …

Madam Speaker: Order!

Dr Machungwa: …please do not …

Madam Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1815 hours until 1830 hours{mospagebreak}


Dr Machungwa: Madam Speaker, what I was saying as we broke off for tea is that the Government must ensure, in these negotiations with the mining companies, that they should not give them any more concessions because by removing the windfall tax, we gave up quite a lot of income.

 Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!

Dr Machungwa: We must stand firm and ensure that we get some income to develop our country.

 I thank you, Madam Speaker, and I will lay this paper on the Table.

Mr Kambwili: Apopena mwalanda bamudala, not filya mwachibalilapo!

Dr Machungwa laid the paper on the Table.

The Deputy Minister of Health (Mr Akakandelwa): Madam Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me the opportunity to contribute to this very important debate.

Madam I will restrict my debate to my portfolio. First of all, let me express my gratitude to the Deputy Minister in the Ministry of Gender and Women in Development for recognising the successes scored by the Ministry of Health in the areas of maternal and child health.

 Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: Madam Speaker, for those who do not know where to find this information, it is found in the 2007 Zambia Health and Demographic Survey. I have an extra copy for anyone that wants to look at it.

Madam Speaker, as I have said, I will restrict myself to my ministry whose vision is to ensure that there is equity of access to affordable, cost effective and quality health services that are close to the family as possible.

Madam Speaker, going through the Presidential Address on health, I am convinced that it was a very healthy presentation.


Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

It is not easy to follow the debate because there are many debates going. Can we all listen to the hon. Member on the Floor?

Mr Akakandelwa: Madam Speaker, I was saying that the President’s Speech in the area of health is very healthy. It addresses and is in sync with the vision of the ministry which is to ensure that there is equity of access to affordable, cost effective and quality health services that are as close to the family as possible.

Madam Speaker, in his address, His Excellency, the President guided that funds henceforth would be disbursed directly to hospitals and district health administration in order to ensure that they are available at the point of the health services delivery.

Madam Speaker, among the effects of this directive will be that delays shall be a thing of the past in all districts and provincial administrations. Secondly, issues of beauracracy at the headquarters may be a thing of the past. Thirdly, this move spreads the risk of fraud or theft because these monies will be handled at individual end points.

Madam Speaker, the President also referred to infrastructure where the Government is investing in infrastructure development and provision of medical equipment country-wide. This year, the construction of fifteen hospitals in various districts is in progress.

Madam Speaker, additionally, my Government is also constructing health posts which are smaller than health centres in areas with catchment population of 500 households or 3,000 people. The Government has, this year, constructed ten out of the eighteen planned health posts in eight districts.

Madam Speaker, again, the effect of this will be easy access by our people to these health facilities, which is in line with ensuring that there is equity of access to affordable, cost effective and quality health services that are as close to the family as possible. In this endeavour, we praise our co-operating partners for coming on board because, on our own, this task is too huge for us to handle.

 Madam Speaker, this Government is determined to ensure that the people of Zambia receive quality health services. I want to remind the House that as to what are being referred to as mobile hospitals, there is a change to the nomenclature. They are called mobile health units. These are not a new phenomenon in this country. I will give examples.

Mr Kambwili: Wayamba ukulufyanya.

Mr Akakandelwa: This country is the best and Hon. Kambwili knows that in the villages…

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order! Hon. Minister, address the Chair.

Mr Akakandelwa: Madam Speaker, I thank you.

Madam Speaker, at village level, we have mobile health units whether you like it or not. In my village, we have ox-carts and sledges. In other areas, they have canoes and bicycles to which they tie beds. They are actually bicycle ambulances. With the advent of technology, we have now power boats. It is only last year that we distributed twelve power boats to Southern, Northern and Western provinces. These are ambulances or mobile health units that are helping us to deliver quality health care to the Zambians.

Mr Mubika: Quality!

Mr Akakandelwa: In addition, at the Ministry of Health, we have a number of motor bikes parked there that are called motor bike ambulances which were donated by our co-operating partners. We also have motor vehicle ambulances. All of us in this Assembly, at least, in each of our district hospitals, are direct beneficiaries of these ambulances.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: These are called mobile health units.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear, junior doctor!

Mr Akakandelwa: Madam Speaker, the idea of mobile health units …

Mr Mulyata: Tell them!


Mr Akakandelwa: Madam, there is a heckler here.

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Speak through me.

Mr Akakandelwa: Madam Speaker, the idea of mobile health units is not new as I said. Outreach services are accomplished with the help of mobile health units. Children’s immunisation is also accomplished by mobile health units.

Mr Mulyata: Bulela makande, lwakuutwa!

Mr Akakandelwa: We even have the Zambia Flying Doctor Service.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: That is a mobile health unit. At one time, Dr Puma, one of the able ministers, was attached to that unit.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Sichilima: Ema doctor aya!

Mr Kambwili: Another lecturer!


Mr Akakandelwa: Madam Speaker, the President’s language in the Speech is very sober. Therefore, I do not know where this misunderstanding is coming from. The President is saying:

“The Government is further exploring the feasibility of delivering more mobile health units.”

“Feasibility” and “more” are the two key words. The word “more” is reminding you that this is already in existence. The word “feasibility” is a derivative from the word “feasible.”

Hon. Opposition Member: Aah!


Mr Mbulakulima: Lecture to them!

Mr Akakandelwa: The word “feasible”, according to the Oxford English Dictionary, refers to easy practicality and the convenience of doing or undertaking a thing. Now, here is a President who is giving you ideas that Zambians must conveniently and practically develop on an idea that already works for you. Where is the source of your discomfort? On this side of the House, we are very comfortable. Those that are rational will be comfortable. However, those that are irrational may not be comfortable.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: Madam Speaker, it does not end there. This Government is committed to improving the living standards of Zambians. It is scaling up the vision of Anti-Retroviral (ARV) drugs to 64 per cent of the total number of the people that live with it. This programme is being encouraged and continues to be encouraged.

For your own information, we are scoring successes because the donors are on board.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: You cannot have donor support if your governance record is bad. The donors are with us and will continue to help this country to deliver the health services to the nation.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear! Tell them!

Mr Kambwili: On a point of order, Madam Speaker.

Mr Mubika: On what?

Mr Akakandelwa: Madam Speaker, Phase 2 of the Cancer Diseases Hospital has started. For those that do not know where the Cancer Diseases Hospital is, it is an annex to the University Teaching Hospital (UTH).

This is a facility which is treating cancer locally. Before the establishment of that unit, we used to send patients to South Africa, India, the United Kingdom (UK) and any other places and we used to spend a lot of money on this exercise. Now, that money is being saved. The convenience of getting treatment at home is in line with the mission statement that we ensure that there is equity of access, cost effective and quality health services that are as close to the Zambian families as possible.

Madam Speaker, Page 52 of the Presidential Speech also addresses some of the challenges and the solutions that the ministry has. This country, as regards the medical field, has experienced attrition at very high rates. The ministry and this Government have put up measures to ensure that the reverse of brain haemorrhage is the case now. We are attracting our able doctors from abroad. They are coming back to this country. For local staff, we are building improved houses in the rural areas.

Mr Mulyata: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: We have put in retention schemes with the help of donors, again, to ensure that those that we have should not be lost. We have put up solar panels, radio communications equipment and motor bikes for 560 health centres.

Madam Speaker, in the area of training, we are expanding our classroom space by building more classrooms, hostels and other training centres and this should result in an increase of up to 75 per cent in the enrolment of students. With these numbers, we hope to saturate the health institutions at one point. That way, we will be assured of a stable cadre of health personnel.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: Again, all these efforts, Madam Speaker, if I can remind the House, are designed to ensure that there is equity of access to affordable, cost effective and quality health services that are as close to the family as possible.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

Mr Akakandelwa: I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Member: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Minister of Local Government and Housing (Dr Puma): Madam Speaker, …

Mr Kambwili: Ulendandila mumatwi!

Dr Puma: … I would like to thank you for this opportunity to contribute to the Motion of Thanks by the President of the Republic of Zambia.

Madam, allow me to join His Excellency in wishing God’s blessings to the families of my late hon. Minister, Mr Tetamashimba, and also Hon. Hamir. I would like the hand of God to touch their hearts as they continue in their lives and may the souls of the departed rest in peace.

Madam Speaker, the President’s Speech has given very good policy direction and now it remains with the Ministry of Finance and National Planning to add more flesh and fulfil the policy direction that His Excellency the President has given. The policy direction has broad terms and is given a broad context. The actual details coming through the Ministry of Finance and National Planning and also through the various ministries to ensure that the President’s direction is well articulated and the outcomes come out well.

Madam Speaker, I wish, at this point, to raise concern that in the recent past, there are some sections of Zambians that seem to have specialised in hatred. I recall that when the late President, may his soul rest in peace, was President, the same section of Zambians continued to criticise him as though no development was ongoing. They only praised him after he had died, which is very unfortunate.

At that point, the current President was Vice-President and no one seemed to have seen anything wrong with him. However, as soon as he became President he became a person to be criticised everyday.

Mr Mubika: Because he defeated them.

Dr Puma: This is very unfortunate. Nevertheless, the Zambians are seeing that there is this group of people that seems to be criticising everything. This group that insinuates that for as long as any action carried out is not done by them, it equates to nothing.

Madam Speaker, you cannot expect that others will respect you if you cannot respect them. It is important to have respect for people in leadership. Therefore, as the governance of this country continues, we should continue to respect those in leadership.

Madam Speaker, at this point, allow me to welcome my brother who is not in the House at the moment, Hon. Dr Solomon Musonda, and I would like to commend him for having stood on a party that has the people at heart.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, I would like to welcome him to this House. I have also noticed that his presence has increased the number of doctors in this House. I would also like to encourage other professionals to join politics so that, together, we can change the situation in Zambia to reduce the poverty that the people are afflicted with. I would like to tell the professionals who wish to join politics that the politics of insults will soon come to an end with the expiring of the current illiterate politicians.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!

Withdraw that statement as it is very strong.

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, I withdraw the statement. I would like to allude to one of the very renowned writers by the name of Eleanor Roosevelt who said, “Great minds discuss ideas, average minds discuss events and small minds discuss people.” This is a very well-known saying.

Hon. Opposition Members: You!

Dr Puma: You can see that we know where some of the politicians who insult those in leadership everyday belong. It is also important to note, and it is not a secret, that the level of education of somebody matters. Those who have gone to school up to a certain level think differently from those who have not been to school. This is not a secret and I end there.


Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, I would now like to discuss the Presidential Speech and I will begin by quoting from page 11 where the President talked about the current economic crisis:

“Mr Speaker, to mitigate these effects, the Government intervened by implementing fiscal and monetary measures, including stabilising the price of fuel and food through tax mechanisms.”

Madam Speaker, this is very important but, unfortunately, when some people see the price of fuel and food has stabilised, they choose to pretend that nothing has happened. These are mitigatory measures which this Government has put in place.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, the President went on to say the following:

“The reduction in revenue collection necessitated the Government to realign resource allocation to infrastructure development in energy, agriculture, tourism as well as social sectors. Further, efforts to attract foreign and domestic investment were scaled up through, among others, the introduction of the new mining fiscal regime.”

Madam Speaker, after reading this quote, I realised that it was a very loaded statement and particularly that despite the credit crunch, which I was very worried would see a number of projects under implementation stalling, these projects continued to be implemented. Hospitals are still being constructed and, recently, I saw an advertisement for a lot of hospitals that are going into second and, some, third phase of construction and this is despite the credit crutch we are experiencing. I commend this Government for that.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: In addition to that, high schools are also being constructed. I was very worried that the schools which started at high cost - some of them up to K30 billion - would stall but, instead, construction has continued and this is very good.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, I would like to caution those who think that, come 2011, they will be in power. I would like to remind them that two years in politics is a long time. At the moment, we are ruling and we are in full control. The prices of fuel and food have been stabilised. Schools, hospitals and other infrastructure are under construction and the people of Zambia are seeing what the Government is doing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, what makes those who are talking about coming into office in 2011 think that they will win when just two weeks ago they tumbled in Chitambo? We humiliated them despite the small “p” presidents being there for three weeks, campaigning. What makes them think that they are coming into office in 2011? They need to rethink and reflect that the people of Zambia are seeing what this Government is doing.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, I now want to discuss the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP). I am happy that the FSP has seen an increase in the number of beneficiaries. I am aware that in most of the rural areas, people were not able to afford the eight bags of fertilisers which were being given in a pack. In most cases, they had to put money together and share these bags and so increasing the target group and reducing the packs is a good thing.

Madam Speaker, the policy of targeting is very good and we shall easily identify those who were buying more fertiliser for re-sale. I would like to mention that the FSP is a very good poverty reduction strategy and, all over the world, it has been noted that the links between poverty reduction strategies and the budget, whether they are formulative or execution, at reporting stage, are an integral part to the successful implementation of the poverty reduction strategy, and this is vital for the strengthening of the Government’s accountability.

Madam Speaker, what has been found all over the world is that when poverty reduction strategies and the budget are well integrated, three benefits are likely to emerge. Firstly, the poverty reduction strategy priorities are more likely to be implemented as planned because the poverty reduction priorities are linked to the budget.

Secondly, the spending agencies can easily be held accountable for their performance because we are linking the poverty reduction strategy priorities to the budget. Thirdly, Parliament can have an increased role in monitoring the poverty reduction outcomes because the poverty reduction strategy priorities are linked to the budget. This is exactly what His Excellency the President has done by giving a direction in his speech that he is trying to link the poverty reduction strategies to the budget so that the issue of poverty reduction such as the FSP is well articulated in the budget that will be brought by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Finally, I would like to comment on the issue of misappropriation of funds that has occurred in the Ministry of Health. This is very unfortunate and should be condemned by all well-meaning Zambians.

However, I would like to appeal to co-operating partners to continue funding the Ministry of Health because by denying the Ministry of Health, they are denying the people of Zambia. This Government has already identified the culprits and relevant institutions are dealing with those people. Now, it is our duty, as a Government, to continue delivering to the people of Zambia. I would like to call upon the controlling officers to ensure that the funds that are being allocated in next year’s budget, including this year’s budget, are properly utilised.

Madam Speaker, finally, I would like to refer to the Fifth National Development Plan (FNDP), which some of the debaters referred to and used words which made me go back, reflect and read the FNDP. What I discovered is that the sentiments expressed are far from what is actually in the FNDP. Therefore, I would like to advise my colleagues that when a document is written like this one, in fact, right here, it is clearly indicated that this is for broad-based wealth and job creation through citizenry participation and technological advancement. Therefore, it is important that each one of us looks at this and sees what our stake is. How do I contribute to ensuring that the FNDP is achieved? We do not expect that the speech by His Excellency the President should make the 2006 and 2010 Action Plan to be achieved straight away because this needs citizens’ participation which is very important.

I also looked at some of the issues that were mentioned in the FNDP like issues of drug supply in Zambia. The FNDP indicated that there was a need to have enough ARVs in the country to ensure that all those who are afflicted get these drugs. In fact, at that time, the patients were only 39,000 but, currently, there are over 100,000 people on ARVs and they are getting these drugs free of charge. Is that not an achievement?

Hon. Government Members: It is.

Dr Puma: It is. Therefore, we cannot just pick one statement and say the FNDP has not worked. There was an issue on human resource in the health sector. I am aware that a lot of training schools have been constructed in the Southern Province. I am also aware that Chikankata School of Nursing, Chikankata Medical School and Monze Nursing School and many others have been constructed and we are increasing the number of health professionals in the hospitals. This is what the FNDP is talking about. Is that not success?

Hon. Opposition Members: No!

Hon. Government Members: It is success.

Dr Puma: Further, it talks about the mines. As a Government, we shall continue to ensure that more mines are opened and we are seeing more and more mines open.

Mr Kambwili: Where?

Dr Puma: Madam Speaker, in summary, we need to make sure that when we are looking at these documents, which are made for the whole nation, at the end of 2010, we need to sit down together and reflect and pose these questions. What has been achieved? What have we left out that we can carry over after 2010? That way, we are going to make progress. In fact, when you look at the financing mechanisms of the FNDP, it is very clear that part of the money will come from domestic revenue, external grants, public-private partnership and it is less than three months ago that we passed the Public-Private Partnership Bill and do you expect it to work immediately?

Ms Lundwe interjected.

Dr Puma: It is not possible. These things are in the process and the Government is on track. We are making sure that things move in the right direction.

Madam Speaker, in conclusion, all those who seem to think that the FNDP is not good enough, I think, have poverty of analysis.

I thank you, Madam Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Madam Deputy Speaker: Order!


The Minister of Defence (Dr Mwansa): Madam Speaker, I beg to move that the House do now adjourn.

Question put and agreed to.


The House adjourned at 1905 hours until 0900 hours on Friday, 25th September, 2009.