DAILY PARLIAMENTARY DEBATES FOR THE THIRD SESSION OF TENTH ASSEMBLY

Tuesday, 3rd February, 2009

The House met at 1430 hours

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

NATIONAL ANTHEM

PRAYER

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ANNOUNCEMENT BY MR SPEAKER

ACTING LEADER OF GOVERNMENT BUSINESS IN THE HOUSE

Mr Speaker: I have been informed by His Honour the Vice-President and Leader of Government Business in the House that he will from today, Tuesday, 3rd February to Friday, 6th February 2009, be away on a national assignment. During his absence, the Hon. Minister of Defence, Hon. George Mpombo, MP, has been appointed Acting Leader of Government Business in the House.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!
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QUESTIONS FOR ORAL ANSWER

PROCURED ROAD CONSTRUCTION EQUIPMENT

54. Mr Simuusa (Nchanga) asked the Minister of Works and Supply:

(a) how many pieces of road construction equipment recently acquired from China, were allocated to Chingola District; and

 (b) what the equipment at (a) above was, piece by piece.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the Rural Road Rehabilitation Unit under the Ministry of Works and Supply has not specifically allocated any construction plant and equipment to Chingola District. However, twenty-three pieces of construction equipment will be allocated to the Copperbelt Province to be managed by the provincial permanent secretary.

Sir, the following pieces of plant and equipment have been allocated to the Copperbelt Province:

 Plant /Equipment   No.

 (i) Graders   6

 (ii) Bull dozers   2

 (iii) Water bowers   2

 (iv) Rollers    2

 (v) Front End Roaders  4   

 (vi) Low beds   1

 (vii) Tipper trucks   5

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the late President, Levy Mwanawasa, SC, gave a directive that the equipment from China be distributed equitably amongst the provinces. I wish the hon. Minister to tell the House why this directive has not been followed. Why is this equipment being used in areas which are predominantly controlled by the ruling party?

Ms Changwe: Where? We also do not have.

Mr Simuusa: In Chingola, for instance, I have not seen any of the earth moving equipment.

Mr Ndalamei: Mr Speaker, the equipment was distributed equally in all the nine provinces. For the information of the hon. Member, light grading has been done on the following roads in Chingola:

 Road    Distance

 (i) Kapisha Road  1.3 km

 (ii) Mulungushi road  1.4 km

 (iii) Misoshi Road  1.4 km

 (iv) Mwamba Road 0.2 km

Mr Speaker, it is, therefore, not true that nothing has been done in the hon. Member’s constituency.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruption

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, I would like to know why the equipment in Luapula Province is not working up to now.

The Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Mulongoti): Mr Speaker, I do not know what the hon. Member means when he says the equipment is not working.

Ms Changwe: Yalifwa?

Mr Mulongoti: The equipment has been distributed to all the provinces. We are also making administrative arrangements for the allocation of fuel. Some little money is being sent to the provincial permanent secretaries to operationalise the equipment. The equipment has been working except that it has not been able to cover the whole province in a short period. Additionally, this year’s Budget has a provision of K2 billion per province which will be used to kick start the operations of the equipment.

I thank you, Sir.

MINING AND PRODUCTION OF MANAGANESE IN LUAPULA PROVINCCE

55. Mr D. Mwila asked the Minister of Mines and Minerals Development:

(a) how many companies were involved in mining manganese in Luapula Province from 2006 to 2008;

(b) how many tonnes of manganese had been produced by the companies at (a) above as at 31st  December, 2008; and

(c) how many permanent and pensionable jobs were created by the mining activities above as at 31st December, 2008.

The Deputy Minister of Mines and Minerals Development (Mr Nkhata): Mr Speaker, a total of twenty-nine mining rights relating to manganese were created from 2006 to 2008 in Luapula Province. The mining rights were in the following categories:

 Mining Rights     No.

 (i) Artisan Mining Rights   6

 (ii) Large Scale Prospecting Licences  9

 (iii) Small Scale Mining Licences  11

 (iv) Prospecting Permits     3

 Total      29

 Mr Speaker, a total of 23,984 metric tonnes of manganese was recorded as declared production during the period under review as detailed below.

Licence Holder Licence Number 2006 
Metric Tones 2007 
Metric Tones  2008
Metric Tones Total 
Metric
Tones
Luapula Base Metals Ltd 
SML 238 
Nil 
Nil 
3,718 
3,718
Luapula Base Metals Ltd 
SML 240 
Nil 
2,600 
15,481 
15,481
Mumbi Mwenechanya 
AMR 1000 
Nil 
Nil 
300 
300
Emmanuel Chisala 
SML 266 
Nil 
Nil 
1,885 
1,885
Total  - 2600 21,384 23,984

 (c) Mr Speaker, the House may wish to know that there were no permanent and pensionable jobs created by the mining activities as at 31st December, 2008. The companies and individuals that are involved in manganese mining in Luapula Province are holders of small-scale mining licences. The operators of these mines are Zambians who only hire labour on a temporal basis.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, there is a lot of illegal mining going on in Luapula Province and, as a result, a lot of people have died. I would like to find out what the ministry is doing about it.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member for his concern regarding the illegal mining activities going on in Luapula Province. This year, my ministry will put in place a programme to intensify the monitoring of operations in all the provinces. Therefore, we will be seeking the support of the hon. Members of Parliament when our budget allocation is presented to this House.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister inform this House the names of companies that are involved in large scale prospecting mining in Bahati and Luapula in particular. For how long have they been prospecting and whether they have now been given the mining rights?

Mr M. B. Mwale:  Mr Speaker, the hon. Member has requested for the names of the companies which are engaged in large scale prospecting activities. The list is quite large, but some of them are Mr Isaac Chibwe Chembe, Ms Josephine Kasope Lwimba and Alpha Mines Limited. These are some of the mining companies operating in Bahati in Mansa.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out the cost of manganese per tonne and how much Government realised from the manganese mines.

Mr Speaker: I believe the hon. Member referred to price.

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the price of manganese, as of today, is US$1,653 per tonne, but it had reached a pick of US$4,001 per tonne in February. With regard to how much the Government has realised from the manganese, I would urge the hon. Member to submit his question.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, the hon. Deputy Minister indicated that there are no permanent or pensionable workers employed in these mines in Luapula Province. However, these miners are exposed to occupational hazards. In case of illnesses, how are they going to be compensated?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, as we have already indicated, these employees are engaged on a temporal basis and there are regulations which govern temporal labour. Our appeal to the hon. Members of Parliament, who hail from Luapula Province, is to ensure that those who have mining rights graduate from small-scale to large scale mining.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that his ministry has granted mining licences in size beyond what the law provides. If he is, what measures is he taking, particularly, in Luapula Province, to ensure that the sizes of large scale mining company areas is reduced so that other small-scale miners can benefit from the manganese in the area?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member could have done well if he had declared interest. However, the new Mines and Minerals Act of 2008, states that whoever is a holder of mining rights has to comply with the new Act by 31st March, 2009. Therefore, we are moving towards ensuring that whoever has a large area which is more than 1000 square kilometres in respect of prospecting reduces the size by 31st March, 2009.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister referred to the need for the hon. Member for Chifunabuli to declare interest. Has the hon. Member got any interest to declare?

Mr Mwansa: Sir, except that I made an application and nothing has happened so I do not know what interest I can declare.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Chifunabuli says he has no interest to declare.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has stated that the price of manganese is above US$1,000 per tonne, is he aware that the miners in Luapula are being exploited because they are selling manganese at US$70 per tonne and the Government is losing revenue? What is the Government doing about it?

Mr M. B. Mwale: Mr Speaker, the challenge that we have, as a Government, is in terms of inadequate power supply in Luapula so that we could have smelters in place which could produce finished products of manganese. As of now, the product that is produced from Luapula Province, is not processed manganese, hence the low prices that are obtaining.

I thank you, Sir.

FUNDS SPENT ON THE REHABILITATION OF BASIC SCHOOLS IN MFUWE CONSTITUENCY

56. Mr Malama (Mfuwe) asked the Minister of Education how much money the Government had spent on the rehabilitation of the following basic schools in Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency:

(i) Kalibunga;

(ii) Lufila;

(iii) Kalonje; and

(iv) Munchelonje.

The Deputy Minister of Education (Mr Sinyinda): Mr Speaker, the Government spent the following amount of money on the rehabilitation of the above mentioned basic schools in Mfuwe Parliamentary Constituency:

Name of school  Amount spent

Kalibunga   180 million 

Lufila Sir, we do not have a school called Lufila but we have one called Chakangaliko Basic School in Lufila area and a total of K125 million was spent on rehabilitation of the school.

 

 

Kalonje   K98 million
    

Munchelonje   K161,306,000 million

 

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Malama: Mr Speaker, may I find out where the K180 million that was allocated to Kalibunga High School has gone because no rehabilitation has taken place apart from the construction of 1 x 3 class blocks.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, we have spent this money on rehabilitation of 1 x 3 classrooms and two teacher’s houses.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, does this Government have a time frame to ensure that the project is completed within a stipulated time?

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, I am sure the hon. Member of Parliament knows that we produced a framework last year and he has seen that we have got a time frame from 1st January up to the last month of the year.

I thank you, Sir.

 

FOREST RESERVES IN CHILILABOMBWE

57. Mrs E. M. Banda (Chililabombwe) asked the Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources:

(a) how many forest reserves were in Chililabombwe Parliamentary Constituency, name by name; and

(b) whether the Government had plans to turn some of the forest reserves into farming blocks.

The Deputy Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Tembo): Mr Speaker, there are seven forest reserves in Chililabombwe Parliamentary Constituency which are gazetted as National Forests for the purpose of supplying timber to the mines and for the purpose of sustaining the environmental conditions of the mining area. The forest reserves are:

a) Border National Forest No. F.56;

b)  Dome National Forest No. F.21;

c) Hippo Pool National Forest No. P.3;

d) Kamenza National Forest No. F.19;

e) Karila National Forest No. F.18;

f) Konkola National Forest No. F.20; and

g) Nsato National Forest No. 17.

Mr Speaker, Government has no plans in the near future to turn some of the forest reserves into farming blocks in Chililabombwe Parliamentary Constituency.

Sir, you may wish to know that in 2004, the ministry excised and degazetted the ten thousand hectares in Chililabombwe Parliamentary Constituency.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mrs E. M. Banda: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that some of the mentioned forest reserves do not exist because of encroachment and deforestation and that these areas are occupied by farmers?

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

The Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources (Ms Namugala): Mr Speaker, we are aware that the levels of encroachment and deforestation are very high. However, what we intend to do as Government this year, is to carry out an assessment to try and understand the levels of encroachment so that should need arise, we can make a decision especially about areas that are highly degraded.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Dr Kalumba: Mr Speaker, I was thinking about manganese.

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: Sir, all these forests…

Laughter

Dr Kalumba: … are being depleted, where are serious traditional practices such as the Mukanda Ceremony in Chililabombwe going to take place?

Laughter

Ms Namugala: Mr Speaker, the situation is not very bad. There will still be forests for ceremonies like the Mukanda Ceremony to take place.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

CASES OF EXAMINATION LEAKAGES FROM 2007 TO 2008

58. Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central) asked the Minister of Education:

(a) how many cases of examination leakages were reported in basic and high schools country-wide in 2007 and 2008; and

(b) what control measures had been instituted to avoid leakages in future.

Mr Sinyinda: Mr Speaker, the number of examination malpractices reported in 2007 were as follows:

Basic Schools

There were twenty-four cases of examination malpractices reported in basic schools in 2007.

High Schools

There were 116 cases of examination malpractices reported in high schools in 2007.

Sir, for 2008, the cases of examination malpractices have not yet been disposed of by the relevant committees of the council. These will be made available as soon as they have been disposed of.

The control measures put in place to avoid leakages include the following:

(a) the Examination Council of Zambia (ECZ) has developed guidelines for the management and administration of examinations in Zambia. These guidelines have been distributed to all examination centers in Zambia;

(b) during inspection of the would be examination centres, the standards officers ensure that schools applying for examination centres status satisfy the conditions laid down in the guidelines for registration of examination centres;

(c) sensitisation meetings are held with stakeholders every year before the examination period commences to remind them on the need to adhere to the laid down guidelines for the administration and management of examinations in Zambia;

(d) during delivery of examination materials ECZ officers and district education board (DEB) officers are accompanied by State police to ensure that materials reach the centres without being tampered with;

(e) security committees have been instituted at all levels of the education system, that is, school, district, provincial and national level; and

(f) intensified spot checks are carried out by officers from the Ministry of Education headquarters, ECZ, provincial education officers and DEBs in sampled centres to ensure adherence to the guidelines.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Mukanga (Kantanshi): Mr Speaker, even with the outlined measures in place, there will still be leakages. Can the hon. Minister confirm that his ministry has failed to curb these leakages?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, the ministry has not failed. The fact that we are able to hear and read about these vices is an indication that the ministry is on the ground and in control, and identifying and dealing with the problems.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the issue of examination leakages and malpractices is alien to Zambia. It has only been heard of in the last five or six years. What has gone wrong with the education system for there to be so many malpractices and leakages?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, it is not the examination system which has gone wrong, but some bad elements within the education system. This includes pupils and teachers. These are the elements we are dealing with to ensure that we protect the integrity and credibility of our quality assurance system. We are working on this and taking measures to ensure that the integrity and credibility of our examination system is protected.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Member: Again?

Interruptions

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, may I find out from the hon. Minister whether the reason for the leakages is not the fact that there are only a few colleges and universities in the country?

Mr Muntanga: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, is it in order for one to repeat the question?

Hon. Opposition Member: He has spoken twice.

Mr Muntanga: Is he in order to ask two questions on the same ministry?

Mr Speaker: It is not allowed. Therefore, I disallow that question.

Laughter

Mr Kambwili: It is a different question.

Mr Mwansa (Chifunabuli): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether he has information on how many people have been successfully prosecuted for leaking examination papers.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I do not have any specifics at the moment. However, if the hon. Member cares, we can provide that information. We do, indeed, identify, prosecute and take measures as required.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Sinyangwe (Matero):  Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister what he is doing in situations where headmasters keep examination papers in their homes due to lack of strong rooms. Do you not think that this increases the temptation to leak the examination papers?

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, one of the guidelines we give to schools is that examination materials should not be kept in homes. Every effort is made to guarantee the security of examination papers. That is why we have on the spot checks. I am not aware of such cases.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Mr Nsanda (Chimwemwe); Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister why we have examination leakages when countries like the United Kingdom (UK) do not. Are teachers selling the papers to get extra money because the Government has failed to pay them well?

 Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I do not know how well-informed the hon. Member is with regard to examination leakages in other countries. If he cares, we can give him information on the magnitude of the problem in other countries. From the figures that we get annually, the problem in this country is quite small compared to what obtains in other places. Of course, that is not to say that we are not concerned about the integrity of the system. We are concerned and take measures to investigate the leakages. For example, we identify the culprits and what caused the leakage.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Sing’ombe (Dundumwezi): Mr Speaker, I would like to know whether the hon. Minister has statistics of pupils prevented from completing their exams due to examination malpractices.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, I do not have those statistics with me and I do not know exactly which year the hon. Member is referring to. However, if he wants details on what transpired where pupils were caught in this practice, we can give him the details of what transpired on each and every case that was identified.

I thank you, Sir.

Ms Kapata (Mandevu): Mr Speaker, does the hon. Minister not think that the main reason for leakages is the few colleges and universities in the country? As a result, pupils would like to get into these universities and colleges at all costs.

Professor Lungwangwa: Mr Speaker, anyone who enters the doors of university should be concerned that they do so on merit.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Professor Lungwangwa: We are operating a meritocratic system in which only the brightest and the best, the cream of the cream, and those with maximum integrity find university education fulfilling, enriching, worthwhile, professionally exciting and beneficial.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

FORMER MANSA BATTERIES EMPLOYEES

59. Mr Chimbaka (Bahati) asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) how much money was required to pay the terminal benefits owed to the former Mansa Batteries employees;

(b) when the money at (a) above would be paid;

(c) when the sale of houses to the employees at (a) above would be concluded; and

(d) why the Government had taken fifteen years to address the problems of the above employees.

The Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning (Ms Kapwepwe): Mr Speaker, I wish to inform the House that the amount being claimed by the ex-employees of Mansa Batteries Limited (In Receivership) stands at K1,465,188,799 up to the time of receivership in 1995.

Mr Speaker, as the House may be aware, Mansa Batteries Limited is in receivership under the auspices of the Administrator-General’s Office. In this regard, the Government will soon release funds, through the 2009 Budget, to the Office of the Administrator-General to cater for survey fees and conveyancing of the plots of the houses to be sold by the company. The money realised from the sale of the houses will be used to pay the terminal benefits to the former employees. It is expected that the ex-employees of Mansa Batteries Limited will be paid their terminal benefits by the receiver within the course of this year.

Mr Speaker, the houses belonging to Mansa Batteries Limited are on one title deed. To facilitate the sale of the houses to the ex-employees of Mansa Batteries Limited, the surveyor-general has to demarcate the plots of the houses to be sold and Mansa Batteries Limited has no funds to carry out such an exercise. Therefore, the Government has set aside funds in the 2009 Budget for the demarcation of the plots of the houses to be sold. It is expected that the sale of the houses to former employees of Mansa Batteries will take place within this year.

Mr Speaker, it is true that it has taken long to address the problem of the former employees of Mansa Batteries Limited. As the House may be aware ZANACO and the Development Bank of Zambia (DBZ) placed Mansa Batteries Limited in receivership for non-payment of an outstanding loan. DBZ placed Mansa Batteries Limited under receivership on 14th November, 1994 and ZANACO did the same on 26th January, 1995.

Mr Speaker, ZANACO had a charge on the housing units and guest house of Mansa Batteries Limited (In Receivership) through a debenture whilst DBZ had security on plant, machinery and equipment. The Government settled the outstanding debt to ZANACO on behalf of Mansa Batteries Limited (In Receivership) and took over the receivership from ZANACO in 2005 to facilitate the sale of housing units to the former employees. However, DBZ sold the plant, machinery and equipment to Amanita Zambia Limited on 21st March, 1997. The Government receivership of Mansa Batteries Limited was later transferred to the office of the Administrator-General and official receiver through a deed of appointment by my ministry in November, 2007.

Mr Speaker, as earlier stated, the Government anticipates that the process of demarcation of the plots for the houses, the sale and subsequent payment of terminal benefits to ex-employees of Mansa Batteries Limited will be done within the course of 2009.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, we are aware that an audit has been done and that the former Mansa batteries workers have agreed to receive the difference between their terminal benefits and the purchase price of the houses. This is because they want to make the purchase of the houses a priority.  This amounts to only K250 million instead of the K1 billion that they should have received. Is the Government going to wait longer to raise this K250 million which would close this chapter? Could the hon. Minister tell me something about this now?

Laughter

Ms Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, as stated in our answer, we are in the process of finalising the settlement of the terminal benefits to the employees of Mansa Batteries Limited, which includes the sale of houses. Therefore, it is prudent for us to make sure that the demarcation of the houses and plots is done. Subsequently, the employees’ terminal benefits will be calculated and the value of the houses deducted from their dues. We want an orderly conclusion to the matter and that is the way we wish to proceed.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Simuusa (Nchanga): Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister tell this House what new measures have been put in place to protect workers who are affected by the liquidation of the companies they work for? For example, JS Mining in Chingola was liquidated. What measures has the Government put in place to protect the workers?

Ms Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, employees affected by the liquidation of a company become part of the company’s creditors. This has been the practice in the past. We take note of the concern that has been raised. The way forward is to make sure that there is good corporate governance so that companies are run in accordance with normal practices and not run down because those who suffer the most are the employees. Therefore, the solution is to strengthen the oversight of corporate governance to ensure that companies are run according to the rules so that they do not end up being liquidated.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.

 Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear! Quality!

Mr D. Mwila (Chipili): Mr Speaker, it is now fifteen years since Mansa Batteries Limited closed down. I would like the hon. Minister to give this house the Government’s position regarding when Mansa Batteries will be reopened.

Ms Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, as I have already stated, the company is in receivership. Eventually, it will go into liquidation. That process has to be followed through. The company’s assets have to be sold and all the creditors given their dues. Therefore, the process is already in place and has to be followed.

 I thank you, Mr Speaker.
Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, the sale of…

Mr Muyanda: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Muyanda: Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to raise this point of order of national importance. Is the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services in order to remain silent when GTV has closed down in the whole Republic of Zambia after over 3,000 subscribers, representing close to K2.5 billion, had subscribed to it? The company has not refunded the people of Zambia such a huge amount of money. The company’s intention is to leave the Republic of Zambia without compensating the subscribers. I need your serious ruling, Sir.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Order!

 The Chair entertains the point of order from the hon. Member for Sinazongwe only in the context that the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services is in charge of broadcasting policy. Where members of the public appear to be headed for loss of money through their subscription, the Chair’s ruling is that the hon. Minister of Information and Broadcasting Services should intervene on behalf of the subscribers because he is permitted by law to do so. That point of order is not one that requires a Ministerial Statement to be made in the House. Therefore, it is up to the hon. Minister to intervene, at portfolio level, on behalf of the subscribers on this matter. The hon. Minister has the law on his side.

May the hon. Member for Roan continue.

Mr Kambwili: Mr Speaker, despite the fact that they were on the same plot, Zambia Consolidated Copper Mines (ZCCM) houses were sold to individual employees without having to wait for survey diagrams and demarcations.

Mr Speaker, why should it take fifteen years for the employees of Mansa Batteries to be sold the houses just because the plots have not been demarcated? Can the hon. Minister confirm that this is just a scape goat for their failure to do what is required of them?

Ms Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, the correct procedure is to demarcate the plots and follow other conveyancing procedures before selling the houses. That is what is being done in this case. The Government has made a commitment to make sure that this is done. Even though Mansa Batteries (In Receivership) does not have the money for this exercise, the Government has put aside money in this year’s Budget to ensure that it is done properly and in accordance with the regulations so that the sale of the houses can be completed.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member of Parliament for Chilubi is not in the House. The question has lapsed.

The Clerk will now read the order of the day.

Hon. Members: There are more questions.

Mr Speaker: Are there any more questions?

Hon. Members: Three!

Mr Speaker: Oh! I did not see page three!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: You see, I want to get to the Budget.

Laughter
Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

UPGRADING OF ROADS IN CHILILABOMBWE

61. Mrs Banda asked the Minister of Works and Supply when the following roads in Chililabombwe Parliamentary Constituency would be upgraded:

(a) Konkola/Chimfushi Road; and

(b) Tshinsenda Road.

The Deputy Minister of Works and Supply (Mr Ndalamei): Mr Speaker, the ministry has intentions to carry out maintenance works on the Konkola/Chimfushi Road. However, due to limited funds, the maintenance of the road will only be carried out in 2010.

The maintenance of the Tshinsenda Road has been included in the 2009 Annual Work Plan of the Road Development Agency (RDA). The works are expected to be procured by May, 2009, and the works may start by July, 2009.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

WINDFALL TAX COLLECTED IN 2008

62. Mr Simuusa asked the Minister of Finance and National Planning:

(a) how much revenue, in the form of windfall tax, had been collected by the Government as at 31st December, 2008; and

(b) how much windfall tax the Government had collected from each of the following companies as at 31st December, 2008:

(i) Mopani Copper Mines Plc;

(ii) Konkola Copper Mines Plc;

(iii) First Quantum Mining and Operations Ltd;

(iv) Kansanshi Mining Plc;

(v) Lumwana Mining Company; and

(vi) Luanshya Copper Mine Plc.

Ms Kapwepwe: Mr Speaker, a total of K126 billion was collected as revenue in form of windfall tax by the Government as at 31st December, 2008.

The windfall tax collection by company was as follows:

Company  Amount Paid

Mopani Copper Mines Plc  Nil

Konkola Copper Mines Plc  Nil

First Quantum Mining and Operations Ltd Nil

Kansanshi Mining Plc  K109,520,627,600.34

Lumwana Mining Company  Nil

Luanshya Copper Mine Plc Nil

However, two other companies paid windfall tax as follows:

Company Windfall Tax (K’billion)

Chibuluma Mines Plc 7,668,552,632.00

NFC Africa Mining Plc 8,882,040,908.76

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Simuusa: Mr Speaker, the K126 billion was not included in the revenue of the Budget which was approved by this House in 2008. It was debated in this House by Honourable …

Mr Speaker: Order!

What is your question?

Mr Simuusa: The question is: Can the hon. Minister confirm the unconfirmed reports that 30 per cent of the 2008 Budget was supplemented by this revenue? Further can he tell this House how this revenue has been used since it did not go through this House?

The Minister of Finance and National Planning (Dr Musokotwane): Mr Speaker, of the revenue collected, the amount indicated for Kansanshi Mining Plc is the subject of litigation. The mining company indicated that there was a development agreement and has chosen to take the matter for arbitration. Therefore, the funds are in an escrow account pending the resolution of this dispute.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. PF Members: Mm!

Mr Kambwili: What about the other amount?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the other amount was part of the Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka): Mr Speaker, could the hon. Minister, please, clear the air on whether compliance is voluntary or not? When we passed this tax legislation last year, we did not realise that compliance was voluntary. It seems that five companies out of eight have paid nothing. Three out of eight have voluntarily decided to comply. What is the present situation? Will the companies that did not comply now comply and will those that complied be refunded? What is the situation and how does this gel with his announcement that the windfall tax has been dropped for no comprehensive reason?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, with regard to the amount that is the subject of litigation, we obviously have to follow the due process of the law. Therefore, arbitration will continue. If the company succeeds, the Government will challenge the decision until the last stage of the litigation process. If the Government wins, it will take the money. However, if the company wins after the litigation process has been concluded, since this is a Government of laws, it will obey the decision of the courts.

Mr Speaker, as regards to the companies that did not pay the tax, you will notice that these are the old companies with very deep and expensive mines. These are Mopani and Konkola Copper Mines. In the case of Lumwana, this company was not even in operation. It did not produce anything and, therefore, there was nothing to pay. Luanshya Copper Mines is also an old and expensive mine. We also know what has happened to it. It has closed down.
Mr Speaker, in summary, in the case of Kansanshi Mining Plc, there is litigation going on. However, for the other companies, the Government is still studying how best to deal with the situation. As far as the law is concerned, the companies did not pay the tax that was due. Therefore, the Government is studying the situation very carefully to see how the matter can be resolved.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr D. Mwila: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister confirm that there are only two people at Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) qualified in this field and that is the reason we did not collect the money that was anticipated?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I mentioned the reason why we did not collect the anticipated revenue two or three times a while ago and it is clear. As regards to the number of people at Zambia Revenue Authority (ZRA) who are capable of administering these taxes, I am not sure about what the hon. Member is talking about, but if he submits that question, then we can answer it.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister confirm that the windfall tax is not or was not profit related but was triggered by a price threshold. Would he also tell this House that in view of what was projected at US$400 million for the year 2008, he can now account for it at the end of the financial year. How much was owed and what is still owed, taking into account the figures given as the money paid?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I can, indeed, confirm that the windfall tax that was put in place is not profit related because it is a tax that is based on gross revenue and this is why in this year’s provisions we have requested that we replace that one with a valuable income tax which also attempts to capture excess profits. This one is based on profits rather than ghost ends.

Mr Speaker, as everybody knows, the price of copper has fallen substantially since about mid-last year, therefore, as we stand right now, there is no company that is liable to paying the windfall tax because the price threshold is below.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, on what is owing from last year is a new question …

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: … which requires notice. Mr Speaker, questions relating to figures require precision and not just guess work.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mwiimbu (Monze): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD) Government misled the National Assembly by passing a law pertaining to windfall tax which has been amended within a year of having passed it in this House.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, taxes are always reviewed to assess their relevance and in this particular case we have done the review and we feel that the valuable income tax is more appropriate compared to the windfall tax.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Lubinda (Kabwata): Mr Speaker, last year when windfall tax was being introduced, Government insisted that they would have a special fund as was provided in the Budget for 2008 and that a tax regime would be set aside and a clear and transparent mechanism for their utilisation would be established. They refused to put the money in the budget. Could he now explain to this House why there has been a change of heart that the K15 billion ,which is not in dispute, instead of being used through a special account as was stated by the hon. Minister of finance and National Planning last year is now being claimed to be in the national budget? May I know why?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, in the address that I made last Friday, I did indicate that domestic financing for 2009 amounted to just over a trillion Kwacha and within that domestic financing is included the amount of money that was put aside from the tax that the hon. Member is talking about. That amount is part of the domestic financing that I talked about and it is included in the 2009 Budget.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Beene (Itezhi tezhi): Mr Speaker, it is common knowledge that those mines which are paying that tax have a serious problem of energy in terms of power. When is this Government going to come to this House and use that kind of money in the infrastructure development of power generation in this country so that we keep those mines going?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, money is frangible. If you listened to what I said on Friday, there is a substantial amount of money in the 2009 Budget to address the energy sector.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma (Zambezi West): Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who is very cagey about the questions which hon. Members are asking and is not being forthright and telling us what exactly is happening to the taxation of the mines. I would like to know, apart from the companies which paid tax, why have the others not paid? The hon. Minister did not give us reasons. Kansanshi Mine wants to go to court, how about the others?

Mr Speaker: The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning may again say what he said in his previous answer on why three or four mines have not paid. I have heard the answer but he may say so once more.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, what I said is that companies like Mopani, Konkola and Luanshya  Copper Mines are old, deep and very expensive mines and so basically those companies said  they accepted the liability but did not have the capacity to pay.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Kambwili (Roan): Mr Speaker, windfall is not profit tax and this means that they enjoyed the high cost of copper at that time by collecting money from the high prices of copper. Why should they bring in the issues of deep and old which are not in the Act?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I have already made a statement regarding these mines and I have stated that the choice was basically that they did not have the money and that if we wanted to collect, we could go and close the mine.

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, as Government we have the responsibility to look at the broad issues.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: If you choose to go and extract something which is not there, the choice you have is to have the mines closing in your hands and then you have to deal with the many people out of jobs. Mr Speaker, our assessment was that, at that particular time there was no capacity to pay. The liability still stands and as I said, we are discussing on how best to move forward with these standing liabilities.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr C.K.B. Banda (Chasefu): Mr Speaker, I am asking this question for avoidance of doubt and to give comfort to the Zambians out there that mining companies which have not paid the mineral windfall tax will eventually be made to pay this tax because it is a debt to Government. May the hon. Minister give us this comfort?

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I did indicate that these companies have acknowledged the liability. Now, it will depend on the circumstances whether the money owed will be collected or not. It …

Mr Kambwili: Which circumstances?

Dr Musokotwane: …can you now tell me to go and collect tax from Luanshya Mine when you know that it is closed?

Interruptions

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the liability stands, but we have to examine the best way of resolving these liabilities.

I thank you, Sir.

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Member: Magande!

Mr Speaker: Order!

Mr Chongo (Mwense): Mr Speaker, is the hon. Minister aware that these mining companies have a tendency of inflating imports receipt values so that they run away from the profits. How then, does he hope to capture the tax based on the profits under the new system that he is proposing, if we cannot capture anything based on windfall tax?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: The hon. Members should note that there is a Motion coming where these issues are already mentioned. However, the hon. Minister can answer this question for the time being.

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, the hon. Member wants to know the assurance that we have in terms of valuable income tax. This will be collectable as opposed to the windfall tax. Now, I think the point is that, we had the windfall tax that we were not able to collect. So, what makes the hon. Member believe that if we continue having this windfall tax, when we have failed to collect it, we will be able to do so by merely having it.

Laughter

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order!

Major Chizhyuka (Namwala): Mr Speaker, does the Minister of Finance and National Planning, who happens to be indemnifying the copper companies which are now listening to him happily, realise that at the time of the windfall profit, Konkola built a VEDATTA University in India equal in magnitude to Harvard University in America. Do you understand that during that period, while you were failing to collect the monies on the basis of windfall tax, those same companies where enriching their own home countries?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Musokotwane: Mr Speaker, I did not indemnify the company that the hon. Member is talking about. I said very clearly, that these tax liabilities still stand. I said that very clearly and as to the assertion by the hon. Member that the VEDANTTA was building universities and so forth, I am not aware of that. However, he is free to provide us with the information.

Interruptions

GOVERNMENT MEASURES TO ENHANCE FOOD SECURITY IN THE COUNTRY

63. Mr Chazangwe (Choma Central) asked the Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives:

(a) what measures the Government had taken to enhance food security and solve once and for all the hunger situation in the country in view of the changing climatic conciliations and the current world recession; and

(b) whether the ministry had, in this regard, plans to dissolve the Food Reserve Agency (FRA) and bring back the National Agricultural Marketing Board (NAMBOARD).

The Deputy Minister for Agriculture and Co-operatives (Mr Kalenga): Mr Speaker, the Government of the Republic of Zambia appreciates the negative effects of the current world recession and changing climatic conditions on food security. The sharp increase in commodity and food procurement over the past couple of years and the changing climatic conditions have raised serious concerns about the food and nutrition situation of the people around the world, especially in poor developing countries like Zambia.

In view of the above, the Government has established a task force to generate information and make recommendations on the actions to be taken to mitigate, the effects of climate change and rising food and input prices. The work of the task force will feed into the committee on agriculture …

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: Order! The House is not paying attention.

Mr Kalenga: …of cabinet Ministers chaired by the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives.

Hon. Opposition Member: Which one?

Mr Kalenga: Salient among the recommendations made by the Task Force include the following:

Short Term

a) The Government allowed importation of 100,000 metric tonnes of maize by  FRA and a private sector to cover shortfalls before the next harvest;

b) establishment of emergency animal disease control fund;

c) finalisation of Agriculture Marketing Act; and

d) application of global inputs subsidy to fertiliser and lime.

Medium to Long Term

(a) The Government in the medium to long term has facilitated expansion of land use with new farm block developments;

(b) facilitated access to financial resources, such as irrigation and cattle restocking funds;

(c) has facilitated investment in long term proactive animal disease control measures;

(d) the Government has increased extension and research efforts for sustainable agricultural production;
 
(e) the smallholder development;

(f) the Government is setting up the irrigation support fund; and

(g) Government will build new infrastructures, such as, dams, schemes and roads.

Mr Speaker, the draft Action Plan of Task Force has been finalised and circulated to various stakeholders for comments. The report will be submitted to the Committee of Ministers once the comments from stakeholders have been taken into account.

Mr Speaker, the ministry has no immediate plans to dissolve FRA and bring back NAMBORD.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Chazangwe: Mr Speaker, is the Senior Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives aware that FRA is actually contributing to the acute shortage of food in this country, by not paying farmers on time and in time?

The Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives (Dr Chituwo): Mr Speaker, I am not quite sure about this seniority, since they are two Ministers in the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives. One is responsible for Agriculture and Cooperatives and the other one is responsible for Livestock and Fisheries.

Mr Speaker, FRA is not contributing to the issue of food insecurity in the country by paying the farmers late. Indeed, this used to be the situation, but in the last marketing season, I am aware of the fact that the farmers were getting paid as quickly as within a week. However, there were problems with the invoicing indeed and this caused the delay. This is the reason why we had to get FRA to improve on their part of contribution.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister has catalogued a number of measures that the Government is taking in order to eliminate hunger in view of climatic changes. I would like the hon. Minister to indicate the time frame within which the Government hopes to eradicate hunger that is caused by climatic changes.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I have stated that there is a task force, similar to the Committee of Ministers, which is looking into this matter. However, the issue of eradicating hunger caused by climatic change is a very difficult one. The plans we are putting in place, through this taskforce, are meant to help us see how we can mitigate hunger that might arise as a result of climatic change. I am sure in due course, when this programme is finalised, we will share information in this regard with hon. Members of Parliament. However, suffice to say that there are measures already in place to empower small scale farmers and ensure food security at household level. In fact, our aim is to go beyond household food security and have excess stocks to export so that we can earn money for the country.

I thank you, Sir.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, would the hon. Minister not agree that we are not in the process of trying to send a man to the moon but simply doing housekeeping? Would he also not agree that on face value and using common sense, applying more than half of the agricultural budget to the subsidisation of the growing and marketing of a single crop, which does not even grow properly in half of the country, is more of a contribution towards chronic hunger than is anything to do with global warming? Can he also explain as to why he is not diversifying the agricultural economy of this country.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I would not agree with what the hon. Member has just said. In fact, I am certain that the hunger situation would have been worse if the Government had not subsidised maize. We have many times stated the areas of diversification that we have embarked on and are in the process of presenting the budget of this programme to this House. I will be extremely delighted to have the support of Hon. Guy Scott on this so that we can realise what we have put on paper in terms of not only diversification but sustainability.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, arising from the hon. Minister’s earlier answer, is it necessary for him to import 100,000 metric tonnes of maize when there is already 90,000 metric tonnes of maize in the country and there will soon be over 100,000 metric tonnes of maize from irrigated crops? 

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, this House will recall that I issued a ministerial statement on the status of maize stocks in the country. I gave clear reasons why at that time the Government could not wait and allow the Zambian people starve.

Dr Scott: It is ‘to starve’.

Dr Chituwo: To starve. I thank Dr Scott for that correction. Is it nice to have …

Mr Kambwili: A muzungu in the House.

Laughter

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, at the time that the Government made a decision to import 100,000 metric tonnes of maize there was insistence by stakeholders that, in fact, we had a short fall of between 100,000 to 200,000 metric tonnes of maize. The Government decided, at that time, to divide the importation into two parts. The private sector would import 50,000 metric tonnes while the Government would import the other 50,000 metric tonnes through FRA. Due to the reasons that I gave in my ministerial statement, our partners in this arrangement continued dragging their feet and as I said, as a responsible Government …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: … we could not wait with uncertainties.

Mr Speaker, much later, it was discovered that, in fact, the statistics we were given by other stakeholders were wrong. They then questioned why the Government was importing maize when they had the quantity of stocks that I have mentioned. In response, we told them that they were the same people that had informed us that they did not have enough maize stocks. I must divulge that Copperbelt millers from the very beginning had stated that they had enough maize in their mills to last until the next season.

Mr Speaker, as a responsible Government we had to honour only two contracts and the process is underway to procure as much of the local maize as possible. Therefore, Hon. Muntanga need not fear as this is a very responsible Government that is adaptable and flexible.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda (Sinazongwe): Mr Speaker, arising from the answer the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Cooperatives has given admitting that the Government has failed to run the distribution and collection of maize in the country, may I know whether he is standing his ground by not admitting to dissolve FRA which in the eyes of the public has failed this country.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I would like to inform my dear brother, the hon. Member for Sinazongwe, that there is no admission of failure at all. At the moment, through FRA’s efforts, we are, as much as possible, meeting the staple food’s need in our country in several ways. These many ways are through the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU), selling of whatever collected maize in various depots in the country and subsidies to millers so as to maintain affordable prices of mealie-meal, which is the staple food.

Mr Speaker, we have in fact embarked on rehabilitation of big silos in Lusaka, Chisamba, Ndola and Monze so that we increase our storage capacity and reduce on wastage. These plans are meant to strengthen FRA and therefore, there is no reason why it should be dissolved.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Mr Ntundu (Gwembe): Mr Speaker, every year FRA asks for funding from the Government for sustaining its operations and purchasing of, mostly, maize. Look here hon. Minister (pointing at Dr Chituwo). You are looking somewhere else.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Mr Speaker: Order! Address the Chair. You are the one who should look here.

Laughter

Mr Ntundu: Mr Speaker, I would like to find out from the hon. Minister whether the Government reclaims the money it allocates to FRA after the agency has sold its commodities and why FRA is not able to sustain its operations when it exports maize and makes a lot of United States Dollars.
Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, every budget we come to this House, FRA is a grant aided institution. In fact, we have come to realise that the expenses even need more money.

Mr Speaker, since FRA is mandated by the Act of this very House to maintain and administer the national food reserve, they have to purchase crops from the remotest areas of our country. Where they incur costs, we do not get refunds from them instead, we continue subsidising so that they continue with their operations.

I thank you, Sir.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, apart from the mire of problems that have beset the FRA from inception, they added onto their existing problems, last year, by exporting at the expense of national food security. Is it not prudent for this Government to reassign the FRA its critical core role of storage of a five-year national strategic reserve and leave marketing to another organisation that will handle marketing and commodity institutions in this country for the betterment of agriculture? Why do you think that it is prudent for you to continue lamping tax payers’ money to strengthen an organisation that has failed for over ten years; and where do you find the wisdom to go along that path?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, this very House passed the FRA Act that mandates FRA not only to administer, but to also engage in the marketing. I do not think that it will be a very good idea that after bathing a baby you throw away both the baby and the water. Having identified what these bottlenecks are, it is prudent to improve them because a problem needs a solution.

Mr Speaker, we might consider separating the FRA from the Ministry of Agriculture if the majority feel that way. However, in our view, at the moment, it is better to strengthen its operations rather than condemn it midway.

I thank you.

Mr Speaker: Just to guide the hon. Minister, would you remind this House that about three years ago, this House shot down a suggestion to form a second organisation, the Crop Marketing Authority. Could you remind the House what happened.

Hon. UPND Members: He was not here.

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I was then Minister of Health and I do recall it was a very heated live debate. It was resolved that the Crop Marketing Authority would not serve any purpose and that it would be a waste of money. In essence, we need to remind ourselves that we cannot go two steps forward and then six steps backwards. The answer is for us to strengthen the FRA. I am sure that with these improvements such as storage and capacity building, our people will find a very user friendly FRA.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Mwamba (Lukashya): Mr Speaker, from the answers given by the hon. Minister, it is very clear that crop marketing in Zambia is in limbo or a state of confusion. What innovative ideas does the hon. Minister intend to come up with to put crop marketing in this country in order?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, part of the answer has been given. Firstly, the strengthening of FRA is for them to reach our remotely placed small-scale farmers and buy their crops.

Secondly, Mr Speaker, we cannot run away from the fact that maize is our staple food, so when we talk about national food reserve, it is our first consideration. I am not quite sure whether the hon. Member of Parliament for Lusaka Central has learnt to eat nshima, our staple food.

Laughter

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, in our area of diversification, we are encouraging FRA to buy, not only, maize but also purchase cassava and rice as it has done in the past. In so doing, we are broadening the food reserve and we will be able to cater for those to whom nshima seems to taste a bit alien.

I thank you, Sir.

Mrs Musokotwane (Katombola): Mr Speaker, why does the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives have a task force of ministers, some of whom do not understand agriculture while some do not even have a little knowledge about it? We have experts within the Government and private sector who could have been members of this task force, people who can go down to the ground and see what is happening. His task force comprises of people who sit in their offices in Lusaka and at the end of the day write a report from somebody on the ground, why is that so?

Dr Chituwo: Mr Speaker, I thank the hon. Member of Parliament for Katombola for that information which will give me an opportunity to clarify the issue.

The task force of ministers consists of practicing farmers, the hon. Ministers of Home Affairs, Community Development and Social Services, you have to see his farm, Agriculture and Co-operatives and the Minister of Finance and National planning, since we need money. This task force is supported by a technical committee, which consists of various stakeholders from the private sector that have lots of task forces on cassava, wheat, maize and livestock. This is the think tank which scouts the landscape with regard to what we ought to do in order to plan for the immediate, medium and long term. They also support and give the Government the way forward with regard to rising food prices on climatic change. Therefore, that is the linkage between the Government and the private sector.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia National Farmers Union is a very valuable member of this technical committee.

I thank you, Sir.

____________{mospagebreak}

MOTION

BUDGET 2009

(Debate Resumed)

Mr Mbewe (Chadiza): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to support the Motion on the Budget Speech which the Minister of Finance and National Planning delivered to the nation through this august House on 30th January, 2009.

Mr Speaker, I wish to state that he delivered a well thought out and visionary policy statement on how this Government intends to govern our country this year for a better future.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, as stated by the hon. Minister, this year’s Budget theme is ‘Enhancing Growth through Competitiveness and Diversification.’

Sir, there cannot be a better theme than this, especially when the whole world is faced with an economic crisis and our country, in particular, whose economy depends on copper, has experienced reduced revenue due to an unforeseen huge down turn in metal prices on the world market.

Mr Matongo: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Matongo: Mr Speaker, the founding fathers who produced the Constitutions over the years decided that the last Friday of January each year shall be Budget day.

Mr Speaker, I have raised this issue through debates over the last three years that after the Budget Address has been delivered, MPs should find in their pigeon holes the Budget Speech, the Yellow Book, the Establishment Register ,on which money is to be expended, and the Economic Report.

Mr Speaker, you will recall that I have been consistent over this matter. I have not been receiving the mentioned documents for eight years and, without them, I have not been able to effectively debate the Budget.

Mr Speaker, this year is even worse. The Establishment Register is not in my pigeon hole. Is it not time we returned to the standards that our founding fathers set, until this Government came to power?

Mr Speaker, last year, the hon.  Minister of Finance and National Planning promised that we would get a report this year. He promised to produce a nine-month period report to help Hon. Members debate effectively, but this has not been done.

Sir, I ask you to make a very serious ruling on this matter. I thank you.

Hon. Members: What is the point of order?

Mr Matongo: Is this Government in order to continuously disable the people’s representatives from effectively debating the Budget?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: It is not a constitutional requirement. It is only a convention that is necessary and it is helpful that the document that pertains to the Budget Address as well as the National Budget of that particular year is accompanied by what are referred to as the Yellow Book, the Establishment Register as well as the Economic Report. All those are, indeed, necessary.

However, I have not been informed as to why the Establishment Register has not been produced.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: I am now informed that it is, in fact, here.

Hon. Members: Where?

Mr Speaker: The Establishment Register is here. It is available. Please, go and look. It is in your pigeon hole.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: It looks like …

Order!

Mr Speaker: … some hon. Members have it while others do not have. I do not know whether some pigeon holes are leaking...

Laughter

Mr Speaker: … and the document may have dropped.

Laughter

Mr Speaker: However, the Economic Report is certainly not available. I would like to guide the hon. Minister to make this report available as quickly as possible. I hope it is being prepared. The august House needs it.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, …

Mr Speaker: Order!

Laughter

Business was suspended from 1415 hours until 1630 hours.

[MR SPEAKER in the Chair]

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, before business was suspended, I was saying that since independence, this country’s revenue and development have been dependent on copper earnings. The economy has always been very fragile because the price and market of this metal are internationally determined and externally positioned. It, therefore, makes economic sense to diversify from this traditional export to non-traditional exports in order to make our economy viable again.

Sir, the term diversification is not new. It was there even in the early 1970s when the fall in copper prices first affected our economy. Therefore, some people might argue that this year’s theme is just another usual phrase which will not result into any meaningful outcome. To such people, allow me to say that unlike before, the Government, this year, is proposing to put in place a policy framework that will favour more private sector investment in the non-traditional sectors, which in the recent past have shown that they can contribute to economic growth like copper, and probably even better.

Mr Speaker, before I debate the 2009 Budget proposals, allow me to underscore some of the positive developments achieved by this Government following the 2008 Budget and subsequent economic policies.

Mr Speaker, as ably pointed out by the hon. Minister, the Government was faced with a number of unexpected events which exerted significant expenditure pressures on the Central Treasury. These pressures included the larger than planned Civil Service wage award; the expenditure on the Presidential elections, which ushered in the Presidency of His Excellency Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda; the financing of the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) in the face of high fertiliser prices; and financing the  Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation (ZESCO) Power Rehabilitation Project.

Despite these pressures, the Government remained focused and expended within its planned budget deficit, while at the same time creating an enabling environment for some development to take place. Although the 2008 Budget underperformed in some of its macro-economic targets such as the annual growth rate, I am sure hon. Members of this august House do agree with the explanations for this underperformance, which include the unprecedented global and domestic events.

Sir, in the agriculture sector, despite the negative growth experienced on account of heavy rains, the country experienced a food surplus. This is a clear indication of the good policies put in place by the Movement for Multi-party Democracy (MMD)Government.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, secondly, this Government must be commended for maintaining a favourable budget deficit below the projected deficit of 3.0 per cent.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: It is such prudent fiscal discipline which made us implement our policies in the most effective way despite the many challenges we faced in 2008.

Sir, with regard to the capital market, the Government remained committed to its policy of empowering Zambians to own shares. Zambia National Commercial Bank (ZANACO), Celtel and other listed company shares were offered to the public and this increased the capital market capitalisation by 13.9 per cent. This investment made by the public on the stock exchange has long-term positive effects. The wealth created, therefore, is good for private sector participation in poverty alleviation from the country’s own resources.

Mr Speaker, the economic advancement this country has recorded in the past should not be reversed at all costs, not even by the current economic crisis. In this regard, I support the hon. Minister’s advice that we must remain resolute and ensure that the fundamental policies that have contributed to our recent growth and macro-economic stability are continued.

The hon. Minister has proposed to direct this year’s fiscal policy on agriculture development, tourism infrastructure, and promotion of the manufacturing sector.

Mr Kambwili: Ule unuka mudala!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, creating an enabling environment in these sectors will not only promote economic diversification and enhance national competitiveness, but also help this country respond decisively to the challenges of this global economic crisis. I, therefore, call upon all hon. Members in this august House to support the revenue and expenditure proposals made by the hon. Minister in this year’s Budget if we are to move this country forward.

Sir, I now wish to dwell on some specific areas concerning the 2009 Budget proposals.

Mr Speaker, let me begin with infrastructure development, in order to support the implementation of the Public Private Partnership Policy launched by the Government in 2008, the hon. Minister stated that he shall bring a Bill to this House to provide necessary legal framework. Once the Bill is enacted, it will create an enabling environment for the private sector to partner with the Government in the development of large infrastructure projects. Lack of such projects has significantly constrained the economic growth of this country for some time now.

Sir, our country has failed to compete favourably with other countries in the region on account of poor infrastructure and high transport and communication costs. The MMD Government cannot sit back and allow its citizens and the business community to conduct their business at relatively higher costs than their counterparts in the region. It is for this reason that when the Bill is brought to Parliament, it is the wish of my Government that all hon. Members of Parliament will unanimously support its enactment so that the high cost of doing business in Zambia becomes a thing of the past.

Mr Speaker, regarding decentralisation, in its effort to extend the benefits of growth and development to all the people in the nation, the hon. Minister reiterated His Excellency, the President’s sentiments in his address on the Government’s commitment to adopt the Decentralisation Implementation Plan. This would incorporate local authorities in the running of the Government and reduce on some unnecessary red tape that sometimes characterises the system of running Government from the centre. It would then assist the Government to deliver its goods and services to the citizens efficiently and effectively.

Mr Speaker, the agricultural sector remains an important pillar in our poverty reduction programme. The MMD Government recognises the importance of this sector and wishes to make it one of the drivers for this year’s diversification programmes. It is a sector that has the capacity not only to reduce poverty levels amongst our people, but also raise foreign exchange for the country through export of surplus produce. It is for this reason,  that the hon. Minister has proposed a significant 37 per cent increase in budget allocation to the agricultural sector, which should go into agricultural infrastructure, proper livestock management, meaningful financing of the Fertiliser Support Programme(FSP) and improved access to credit, inputs and extension services to mention but a few. As stated by the hon. Minister in his speech, these are some of the factors which contributed to the poor performance of the agricultural sector in 2008.

 

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister in his Budget has also prioritised tourism as a key player in the diversification process. In this regard, he has proposed an increased allocation to this industry from K26 billion to K77 billion in order to develop various areas including infrastructure rehabilitation in this sector. This indicates an increase…

Mr Mbewe drunk some water.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe:…of almost 200 per cent from last year’s expenditure. With this significant increment, I am left wondering why some people still doubt the seriousness of this Government in the development of our tourism industry. This year, I wish to invite hon. Members on your left to help the Government in putting to good use the money allocated to tourism so that we all take pride in appreciating the benefits that the industry will bring to our nation.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Sir, hon. Members should not stand on the fence and simply criticise for the sake of doing it,  but offer constructive criticism that would help out the tourism sector compete favourably within the region.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, it is sad to note that forty-five years after independence, our people in some remote areas of Zambia have never had access to electricity. Electricity does not only make life easier but it also adds meaning to the fullness of human life.

Interruptions

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, my Government cannot allow our people in rural areas to continue leading sub-standard lives as compared to their fellow citizens in the city. It is for this reason that Rural Electrification Fund has been awarded a significant budgetary increment of about 240 per cent which is expected to cover the expansion of our national grid so as to improve access to power in rural areas. This is indeed remarkable and it calls for the support of all hon. Members. This is to ensure transparency and accountability. All stakeholders, including hon. Members of Parliament are called upon to align Government’s efforts by ensuring that the provided information in the booklet is used to hold implementing agencies accountable in the delivery of infrastructure projects.

Mr Speaker, in order to enhance competitiveness in the communication sector, the MMD Government this year intends to improve the regulatory framework governing the sector.

Mr Mubika: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Sir, it is in this regard proposing to remove barriers to entry in the communication sector by significantly reducing international gateway license fees to regional average. This would add to reducing the cost of doing business in Zambia and also reduce the cost of communication to the ordinary Zambian.

Mr Speaker, this year’s budget has put infrastructure development as one of the priority areas to help in improving the competitiveness and effectiveness of our Zambian economy. The Government will ensure that the allocated funds, as approved by Parliament, are released for these undertakings. However, as hon. Members may be aware, effective implementation of infrastructure development projects does not only depend on the release of funds but also, on ensuring that the funds released are used for their intended purposes. It is with this in mind that I agree with the hon. Minister in proposing to strengthen the monitoring of the implementation of the infrastructure project so as to ensure effective budget execution.

Mr Speaker, as the hon. Minister stated, ministries and Government agencies will endeavour to publish booklets showing resources allocated and actual allocations of projects. This is put on state of the process of transparency and accountability. What remains is for all stakeholders, including hon. Members to augment Government efforts by ensuring that the booklets are used to hold implementation agencies accountable in the delivery of infrastructure projects.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, it is not my wish to reproduce the Budget Speech ably delivered to this august House by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning. I therefore, would like to conclude my Motion by commending the hon. Minister for his fair and well articulated budget policy statement. To the members of this august House, let us be above party politics and support the revenue and expenditure measures proposed by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

 Mr Speaker, with these few words, I beg to move.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo (Mazabuka): Mr Speaker, I rise to second the Motion of Supply to the Budget Address by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Hon. Situmbeko Musokotwane, MP.

Sir, allow me to congratulate the mover of the Motion, the hon. Member for Chadiza Central for the able manner in which he has articulated the Motion before this august House. In addition to the points raised by the mover of the Motion, allow me to also raise a few concerns on the Budget Speech as presented by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning.

Mr Speaker, on Friday, before we adjourned, I indicated that the hon. Members require time to go and study the Budget so that they could make useful contribution to this debate.

Mr Speaker, as alluded to by the hon. Minister, this year’s theme is, “Ensuring Growth Through Competitiveness and Diversification” and is completely different from the last year’s theme which was, “Unlocking Resources for Economic Empowerment and Wealth Creation”. I supposed the change in the theme was to be expected but with this change, one can only assume that indeed, the Government did manage to unlock the resources, created wealth and economically empowered ordinary Zambians. As such, it is now ready to enhance the growth from the unlocked resources in readiness to diversify the economy.

Sir, would this really be the case? Well, from my brief study of the Budget, I do not think so.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, In most cases, the word, “continuing”, is affixed to the most programmes or sectors implying that in actual fact, the Government did not fully harness and unlock resources as it had intended to. Hence, it is continuing to unlock them this year as well. This can be seen from the fact that this year’s Budget as in the previous ones, the focus is still on diversification of agriculture, tourism, infrastructure and so on. Therefore, how is this Government going to enhance growth when it has actually not fully unlocked the resources needed for this growth? It is all very well to come up with flamboyant themes but the Government should allow these themes to mature...

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo:…before coming up with the ones that indicated that most of these objectives under the previous themes were not met.

Mr Speaker, in his address, the hon. Minister indicated that in the agriculture sector, they have allocated 37 per cent of the 8.8 per cent of last year’s budget in line with the diversification policy, which to me, created a little bit of confusion because the hon. Minister would have just straight forward come up with the figures that represented this increase. In my view, the 37 per cent of the 8.8 per cent, in line with the new Budget figure of K15 trillion leaves a lot to be dealt with in terms of the increase that the hon. Minister is claiming.

I will try and elaborate by simply giving figures from the Yellow Book, on Page 29 of the roman numerals of the abstract showing Estimates of 2008 and 2009.

Mr Speaker, the budget on agriculture was K786 billion, with a supplement of K567 billion, which gave us a total of K1.3 trillion. When you compare this amount to the 2009 Budget allocation of only K1 trillion, in my simple mind, it represents a downward trend of about 20 per cent.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Therefore, I would like the hon. Minister, in response to the concerns raised by the hon. Members of Parliament, to come back with a clear figure road map of how we can appreciate the increase he has given us.

Mr Speaker, looking at the total budget of last year, together with the supplement, which is appropriated by this House, the figure that represents the agriculture sector stands at 9.8 per cent of the total budget whereas this particular 2009 Budget has a figure of 7.2 per cent, indicating a drop. This does not include the exchange rate as may have been obtaining last year as well as the rate obtaining this year and of course all other facets that guide the cases of budgeting.

Mr Speaker, I would have imagined that the hon. Minister would have gone up to 10 per cent of the budget in this sector as opposed to the 7.2 per cent that he gave us in line with the Comprehensive African Agriculture Development Programme (CAADP). Such an allocation would have proved beyond any doubt that the Government views agriculture as a key sector in fulfilling its diversification programme. In addition, this allocation would have taken care of and addressed many facets, challenges and programmes in the sector which the hon. Minister outlined as livestock management, infrastructure development, Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP) and many others in a more comprehensive manner, as opposed to spreading out thinly the amount which has been allocated.
 
Mr Speaker, my second concern with FSP, which the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning stated as an important tool in empowering small-scale farmers and ensuring national food security, I am pleased that the hon. Minister also expressed concern and confirmed that the programme has not been working very well as it has been beset by problems of diversions and thefts of fertilisers as most of us and the majority of Zambians are aware.

Mr Speaker, I was taken aback to see that the hon. Minister went ahead, amidst all these problems, to allocate K435 billion to, almost close to half of the total amount allocated in the budget to go towards  FSP, a programme which was fraught with problems when it came to implementation.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: The hon. Minister revealed yet another surprising proclamation by stating that the Government, in response to the challenges encountered in the implementation of FSP had initiated a comprehensive review of the programme in order to improve its efficiency and effectiveness.

Mr Speaker, I would have thought that it would have been far much better for the Government to first of all carry out the comprehensive review of FSP to see its flaws before allocating such a huge amount of money …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: …to a programme that is well viewed to be preceded by difficulties, including thefts.

Mr Speaker, when these thefts occur, this Government usually stands with their arms folded and they do not prosecute the culprits.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, a large amount of this money could have been used for the recapitalisation of the embattled Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ), …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: …to reduce on the cost of importation of a finished product because NCZ would have obviously been bringing in the product in its raw form, which is cheaper than importing finished products.

Mr Speaker, thirdly, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning informed us that the Government had allocated K25.4 billion under the agriculture sector for the procurement of motorbikes and bicycles for 1,700 extension workers who were recruited in the year, 2008.

Mr Speaker, what have these extension workers been using in order to make sure that their extension services are appreciated between 2008 and now?

 Hon. Opposition Member: Nothing.

Mr Nkombo: I think the answer is zero.

Mr Speaker, it is a good gesture for them to mobilise these officers in order for them to carry out their extension work effectively. We are hopeful that in next year’s budget, we will see an actual improvement in the performance of the extension officers. This way, it will benefit the rural poor, who have for a very long time, been short changed by inefficiencies of FSP.

Mr Speaker, lastly, on the agricultural sector, I would like to make a reference to the proposal by the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to increase income tax from the exports of cotton from 15 per cent to 35 per cent. While I appreciate that this might bring in the much needed revenue, I somehow feel a bit nervous because the leap from 15 per cent to 35 per cent appears to be a little bit too high for the producers and exporters of cotton to bear, especially, bearing in mind that this sector has been struggling for a very long time. We have seen the struggles that LINTCO, Dunavant and Clark Cotton have gone through, to mention only a few.

Mr Speaker, if this tax is imposed on the export of cotton, it may totally destroy this already fragile cotton industry, which has been struggling for a long time to survive as a direct response to the challenge that is provided by the cheaper cotton producers from China and the much talked about second-hand clothes dealers called salaula.

Mr Speaker, I would now like to focus my attention to the Pay as You Earn (PAYE). This element of the budget leaves every worker in this country saddened. The worker in this country has for a long time been looking for some relief.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: They have been hoping for relief and the majority of the working class in Zambia’s formal employment, which forms the bulk of the tax net, is expecting higher tax exemption on the threshold. Unfortunately, to the dismay and chagrin of many Zambian people, a paltry K100,000, equivalent to two bags of mealie meal is the additional amount he or she …

Interruptions

Hon. Opposition Members: One bag!

Mr Nkombo: …I beg your pardon, one and a half bags of mealie meal …

Major Chizhyuka: One and a ka Pamela.

Mr Nkombo: …for them to take home.

Despite the hon. Minister’s reason that the Government could not provide greater relief to the workers this year, due to constraints emanating from the prevailing economic environment, I still feel that K700,000 as a threshold remains a mockery to the hard working Zambian.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: The hon. Minister should have positioned his taxes at the end of the consumption chain instead of putting them at the beginning in wages. This would have resulted in an increase in consumer demand for goods which is what keeps factories running to increase production and to keep the economy going.

Mr Speaker, in the education sector, I would like to state that the hon. Minister put emphasis on the need to develop human resource capacity by focusing more on science and technology and engineering. Acquiring skills would contribute to the growth of the manufacturing industry through entrepreneurship. In addition, the more people acquire entrepreneurship skills or get trained in science and technology, the more they would be able to access funds from the Citizens Economic Empowerment Fund (CEEF). Most countries that have developed from being low to medium or even high income countries, such as the Asian tigers, have been as a result of focusing on science and technology. I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister for that.

Mr Speaker, I also note that in this year’s budget, money has been allocated to upgrade the Copperbelt Secondary Teachers Training School and Kwame Nkrumah College into Universities. However, these two institutions received funds last year with the view that they were upgrading. The question that arises is that, for how long will this upgrading continue? I would have imagined that for you to make a mark, you need to allocate sufficient money to upgrade the institutions once and for all and then leave them up and running and not put them in the Fifth National Development Plan so that the upgrading takes five years. My overview on the allocation of the education sector is quite satisfactory and I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister for that.

Sir, allow me now to turn to the energy sector for which I am lucky to have been chosen Chairman, again. Having said that, I would like to address myself to the hon. Minster’s pronouncements. In his speech, the hon. Minister indicated that the Zambia Electricity Supply Corporation’s (ZESCO) tariffs will be adjusted upwards this year in order to allow them to reach cost reflective measures by the year 2010. While I agree with the need to adjust electricity tariffs to sustain existing generation capacity, I am deeply concerned with the fact that this impact will be extremely severe on the consumer who is supposed to access this power, especially bearing in mind the Rural Electrification Programme which is taking power to people who are incomeless.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to take advantage of this particular portion of my statement to indicate that the hon. Minster of Finance and National Planning indicated that Zambia had a capacity of 9 million mega watts which I think was an error of pronouncement or the authors of his speech did not understand what they were doing. This is because the actual installed capacity is 1,400 mega watts. The actual existing capacity that is running is 900 mega watts and not 9 million because this would have lit up the whole world.

Mr Speaker, I am equally concerned with the impact of this upward adjustment of electricity tariffs on the cost of doing business in Zambia. Is this in harmony with the Government’s intention to reduce the cost of doing business as indicated by the hon. Minister? I think the answer is that the two are in conflict. I will also want to know what the Government intends to do so that these adjustments do not affect the cost of manufacturing.

Mr Speaker, it is stated that this year’s budget will focus on improving infrastructure and creating a more conducive environment for investors. The Government intends to establish industrial parks and extend tax incentives to the Zambia Development Agency (ZDA) Act, developers and investors in multi-facility economic and industrial zones.

Mr Speaker, this requires a careful look because we have learnt from the past that when we give investors too many tax-breaks, in times of down ward trends, they leave, the way the people in Luanshya have left.

 Mr Kambwili: Hear, hear!

Mr Nkombo: Mr Speaker, I wish to end my debate to second the Motion moved on the Floor of this House by the hon. Member for Chadiza by giving the hon. Minister my personal encouragement to this new task that he got as hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and to remain focused. Definitely, he will get a lot of accolades as well as a little bit of criticism. I believe that is the manner in which he will perform his functions efficiently.

Mr Speaker, with those few words, I beg to second.

 Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo (Bangweulu): Mr Speaker, I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to compliment the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning who has just presented his first budget address this hon. House.

Sir, I would like to begin by saying that since the hon. Minister has just done his part for the first time, I will hold my fire and try to be sober minded in giving him what I consider to be pieces of advice that he may use or may not use in trying to implement the commitments that are reflected in the Yellow Book.

Mr Speaker, I would like to acknowledge the fact that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has been able to view the problems confronting our country as challenges. This is very commendable. I would therefor, like to urge the hon. Minister to ensure that these challenges are translated into opportunities for the people of Zambia so that ultimately, we will be able to raise the standard of living of our people. This can be done by taking the same measures that are very traditional and have been emphasised by each hon. Member during their contributions on their interpretation of the same document that is available to us.

Mr Speaker, in order for the hon. Minister to translate this commitment into action or results, you have to mobilise funds and put emphasis on local action. History has shown that all hon. Ministers of Finance and National Planning are fond of travelling to the States to mingle with the international Monitory Fund (IMF). The moment you commit Zambia to those who you cannot even pay during your administration, you are ultimately enslaving Zambia.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: You should depart from this traditional approach by your ministry. It is possible for appointed ministers to be surrounded by officials who will able to encourage them to be borrowing from the IMF. Hon. Minster, a loan is a loan and it must be paid back. This is the reason that you should seek emphasis from getting loans from the IMF so that you will be able to mobilise resources from within. In other words, you should be able to identify potential areas where you should be able to generate a lot of revenue. Potential areas like our borders have the potential of generating a lot revenue which you can use to translate the same commitment into action. If you went to Chirundu, you would be able to see for yourself that Chirundu can raise a lot of money which can assist this country to undertake a number of programmes that have been reflected in your budget Address. This is the case with any border area you can name. For example, Kasumaba Lesa. What is lacking is the political will on your part to commit even 10 per cent of the resources that our men and women generate every day. Just commit 10 per cent of that revenue to improve the infrastructure and by doing so; you will agree with me that you will be able to generate more resources which you can ultimately use in implementing your vision.

Secondly, you have to make sure that once this House has appropriated funds, they should be released timely. There is no need for you to keep holding onto the money. In most cases, we are under attack as Parliamentarians by your failure to release funds, that we deserve, and yet, Parliament approves the funds on time, in most cases. If you did not know hon. Minister, this is the most efficient House. We do not delay this simple task. We give you the mandate to pay the money, but the problems come in when you sit down to look at the same amount of money that is supposed to go to the people to implement the same measures that are reflected in your Budget address. You should not be seen to be postponing this effort. Immediately we adjourn, we would like to see resources being filtered down to the operative so that action can be taken as quickly as possible.

Sometimes, even you fellow hon. Ministers are stuck. They are forced to line up at the ministry to look for money. This tendency must stop.

Additionally, I would like to see a situation where all ministries are able to produce operational plans immediately funds are released so that we, too, can monitor how funds are spent in our respective constituencies.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: The Ministry of Education (MoE) has taken a lead.

Major Chizhyuka: Only!

Mr Kasongo: The Ministry of Health has also taken a lead in that direction. For this reason, I would like to commend the hon. Minister of Education who has demonstrated to this House how practical he is.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: At the time he made this document available to us, he also released the funds which were committed in the operational plan.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: For this reason, most of the schools that looked ugly in our respective constituencies now look so beautiful. We commend him for that.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: These are the ministers we will continue to encourage.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: We need ministers who are practical and not those who cannot produce a simple document such as this one [pointing at document]; …

Mrs Phiri: Yes!

Mr Kasongo: … ministers who can only give funny semantics. We are not going to allow that.

Mr Muntanga: Get annoyed!

Mr Kasongo: We need ministers who are practical.

In other words, I would like to challenge all cabinet ministers to emulate the example of the hon. Ministers of Education and Health respectively, for producing this important document. It is makes it easier for us to monitor what is happening in our respective constituencies.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: We do not want to hear statements where you misinform this House that you were inadequately funded because of the initiative that came from the district. We want to prove you wrong by producing the same document.

Mr Speaker, the tendency of releasing funds to provincial headquarters must be stopped. This is an activity-based budget.

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Money gathers at the district level, …

Mr Muntanga: Take the money there!

Mr Kasongo: … up to our respective ministries. Therefore, hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, whenever you release funds, ensure that funds are released directly to the district.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: So that, the operatives are able to implement the programmes and projects.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: Normally, when you release funds to provincial centres, permanent secretaries become so excited with the money and end up misusing the funds

Mr Muntanga: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: It is difficult to hold them accountable because they do not reside in our respective constituencies. Funds must be released directly to the district centres so that we can tangle with the operatives.

Mr Muntanga: You want to hold your fire!

Mr Kasongo: Thirdly, Mr Speaker, as the mover of the motion ably pointed out, the monitoring system is so weak to the extent that one cannot tell whether the funds released have been utilised for the purpose they were intended for.

Mr Muntanga: That is correct!

Mr Kasongo: We do not want to see a situation where the funds that are appropriated by this House are sent back to the Treasury. Mr Speaker, that is why I cannot subscribe to the people who are singing that chorus of praising the past, and yet they are aware of the fact that K900 billion was sent back to the Treasury because of the inefficiency on the part of the people who belong to that building. I cannot praise that past myself. I think I am too smart for that.

Laughter

Mr Sichilima: Join us here!

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kasongo: I have heard a chorus here, praising the past, and yet the K900 billion which was sent back to the Treasury could have made a difference in my or his constituency. I am not going to be part of that. You must ensure that you man that ministry authoritatively. I am looking forward to this and I am going to support you. Do not look backwards.

Mr Muntanga: You are annoyed!

Mr Kasongo: Some people are singing songs about the past. That is history.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: Apart from the aspect of monitoring, hon. Minister, through the Chair, please, ensure that there is accountability on the part of controlling officers. You have to make sure that there is prudent management of public expenditure. At the moment, it is weak.

Mr Speaker, you will recall that some time last year, when the Acting Chairperson of Estimates tabled the report in the House, he mentioned that accountability on the part of controlling officers was weak. Therefore, hon. Minister, you must see that weakness as a challenge and see how best you can reorganise that activity.

If you continue receiving reports from the Public Accounts Committee about how funds are being misappropriated, however brilliant your document or commitment will be, hon. Minister, through Mr Speaker; you will not be able to translate the same commitment into action if there is no prudent management of public expenditure. Make sure that those who misappropriate public funds account for them. Penalties are there to be taken against such people. The only problem is that you are selective sometimes. Make sure that once a crime has been committed by any controlling officer, action must be taken there and then. You should not postpone that effort.

Sir, the issue of suppliers has been a nightmare in our country. You are aware, hon. Minister, through the Chair, that suppliers have the potential of creating job opportunities for their fellow Zambians. Look at the amount of money that the Government owes them? How can they plan for their future activities? You have to raise a lot of money to clear all the arrears so that you do not owe the suppliers even one ngwee. In other countries, suppliers create job opportunities and they can do the same in our country.

Mr Speaker, the same goes for retirees. Hon. Minister, there is nothing as dishonourable as seeing a person walking or travelling from as far as Kalomo, for instance, to come and line up at the Pension House …

Mr Muntanga: You see!

Mr Kasongo: … to claim what is due to him or her.

Mr Muntanga: From Kalomo!

Mr Kasongo: That is embarrassing.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: You have to address this issue more aggressively. Ensure that you allocate a lot of money to the Pension House. Clear all the arrears that you owe the people who have made a contribution to the economy of this country. They have done their part. The fact that they are retirees does not mean that they can now be left destitute in their own country, no. Think of yourself. At one time or the other you were a retiree. All of us in here are potential retirees. Therefore, we have to address the plight of retirees.

It is emotional to see a grandmother borrowing money from Chinsali just to come and line up for K1 million. When she goes back, she has nothing. Please, address this issue. In the previous budget address, we were meant to understand that this problem would be addressed by the end of December, 2008, but this is now February, 2009 and nothing has been done. That is why those who are singing choruses have short memories.

Laughter

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, let me also talk about the importance of distributing resources equitably. Hon. Minister, this is going to enhance your image. If you can allow me to refer to the funds which were released last year to a number of roads in our respective provinces, the information is as follows:

Province     Allocation (K’ billion)

North-Western Province  469 
Central Province   397 
Copperbelt Province   302 
Luapula Province   152 
Western Province     91 
Lusaka Province   641
Southern Province   441 
Northern Province  K649 billion; and
Eastern Province  K318 billion

In other words, Luapula and Western provinces were the least. Why is it so? Can the hon. Minister explain that? Can you justify that?

Mr Milupi: You are more developed than the other provinces.

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister make amends to these imbalances because all provinces would like to develop in terms of infrastructure. We need better roads. We need justification for allocating more resources to some provinces in comparison to others. Why should Luapula and Western provinces be at the tail end of your budget? You will have to change this, otherwise next year I will not have any kind words for you.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to advise the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that because he is the one who prepares the national cake, he will always be under attack. Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, you should accept the fact that in a democratic country, some people will attack you even when they know you have done extremely well. You should also know that some people always mistake pride for principle.

Mr Muntanga: Drink water!

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister should know that in our country and elsewhere, some people always mistake pride for principle. Even when you are doing extremely well, they will attack you and you may take it that they are principled people. No, this is pride. What sort of principles are those because a principled person will tell you that you have done extremely well here and you can enhance your leadership by pursuing this road and so on and so forth, but others will always say, ‘no’ even when they are supposed to say ‘yes’. That is not being principled but proud, and yet they will be parading themselves as principled people. You know these people and the best you can do is to accommodate all these weaknesses and be forward looking.

If the President is going to succeed, it is because of you. You have the potential of strengthening the presidency and you also have the potential of weakening the presidency. Therefore, the choice is yours.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mabenga (Mulobezi): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the motion.

First of all I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Musokotwane. I would like to correct the assertion people have made about hon. Minister Musokotwane coming from Kazungula District. I would like to state that the Hon. Minister, Mr Musokotwane comes from Sishekano Village in Liuwa Constituency in Kalabo District. The allegation must be cleared.

Mr Speaker, in congratulating the hon. Minister, I would like to mention that on page 1 of his speech, he mentioned something that caught my eye and that is, and I quote:

“Sir, just as we expect citizens to work hard to drive our economy forward, they expect the Government to play its role in creating a conducive and competitive environment for wealth creation and poverty reduction in every part of our country.”

Mr Speaker, I will underline the phrase, “in every part of our country” as the basis of my debate. I would like to mention that what the hon. Minister meant when he referred to agriculture and the many things that he talked about was co-operation in the agricultural sector. I would like to say that this is welcome. It will be proper for the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives to ensure that the promises that were made about the extension workers going to work with the people in rural areas become a reality.

Mr Speaker, when the numbers of extension officers were mentioned here, I wondered where these people were because in my constituency, and I am sure I can speak for many constituencies in the rural areas, houses for extension officers have collapsed and there is nobody living in them. If these people are there, let them go and work in the rural areas. The rural areas need them to encourage people to go into agriculture.

Mr Speaker, I remember six years ago, Lukona area in Kalabo District, was able to produce maize to feed the whole of Mongu, but today, that is not happening because people do not seem encouraged at all. People have been advised to go into rice growing, but what advantage is in rice growing? It is not much because not many people buy this rice.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, it is important that when we come up with policies, they be supported. Therefore, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives must come to the aid of the people as much as possible.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I would now like to discuss the issue of communications and transport. This is a very important sector of our development and specifically, I would like to talk about rail transport.

Mr Speaker, year in and year out, I have sat here and heard about the Livingstone/Mulobezi/Walvis Bay Railway Line. In the Yellow Book, the Livingstone/Mulobezi Railway Line has only been allocated K500 million.

Mr Magande: That is too much.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I know that this money can do wonders, but I have not seen any change on that railway line despite the money being voted for it.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I would like to encourage the hon. Minister of Transport, and Communications to ensure that the use of money voted for such projects is monitored. Otherwise, it will just be money in the book and not put to good use, and that is not good.

Mr Muntanga: Come this way!

Mr Mabenga: I will never come that way.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: I happen to be National Chairman of this party here.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Which you will never be.

Mr Speaker: Order! Address the Chair.

Mr Mabenga: Sorry, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I now turn to the issue of canals in areas where transport is by canoe or boat. If you go to most of these places, you will discover that dredging is not done despite the fact that the hon. Minister of Transport and Communications bought some dredging machinery. I have seen this machinery and I would like to know why it is not being put to good use.

Mr Milupi: You are more developed than the other provinces.

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, can the hon. Minister make amends to these imbalances because all provinces would like to develop in terms of infrastructure. We need better roads. We need justification for allocating more resources to some provinces in comparison to others. Why should Luapula and Western provinces be at the tail end of your budget? You will have to change this, otherwise next year I will not have any kind words for you.

Mr Speaker, I would also like to advise the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that because he is the one who prepares the national cake, he will always be under attack. Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, you should accept the fact that in a democratic country, some people will attack you even when they know you have done extremely well. You should also know that some people always mistake pride for principle.

Mr Muntanga: Drink water!

Mr Kasongo: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister should know that in our country and elsewhere, some people always mistake pride for principle. Even when you are doing extremely well, they will attack you and you may take it that they are principled people. No, this is pride. What sort of principles are those because a principled person will tell you that you have done extremely well here and you can enhance your leadership by pursuing this road and so on and so forth, but others will always say, ‘no’ even when they are supposed to say ‘yes’. That is not being principled but proud, and yet they will be parading themselves as principled people. You know these people and the best you can do is to accommodate all these weaknesses and be forward looking.

If the President is going to succeed, it is because of you. You have the potential of strengthening the presidency and you also have the potential of weakening the presidency. Therefore, the choice is yours.

I thank you, Sir.

Mr Mabenga (Mulobezi): Mr Speaker, I thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to contribute to the debate on the motion.

First of all I would like to congratulate the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, Dr Musokotwane. I would like to correct the assertion people have made about hon. Minister Musokotwane coming from Kazungula District. I would like to state that the Hon. Minister, Mr Musokotwane comes from Sishekano Village in Liuwa Constituency in Kalabo District. The allegation must be cleared.

Mr Speaker, in congratulating the hon. Minister, I would like to mention that on page 1 of his speech, he mentioned something that caught my eye and that is, and I quote:

“Sir, just as we expect citizens to work hard to drive our economy forward, they expect the Government to play its role in creating a conducive and competitive environment for wealth creation and poverty reduction in every part of our country.”

Mr Speaker, I will underline the phrase, “in every part of our country” as the basis of my debate. I would like to mention that what the hon. Minister meant when he referred to agriculture and the many things that he talked about was co-operation in the agricultural sector. I would like to say that this is welcome. It will be proper for the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives to ensure that the promises that were made about the extension workers going to work with the people in rural areas become a reality.

Mr Speaker, when the numbers of extension officers were mentioned here, I wondered where these people were because in my constituency, and I am sure I can speak for many constituencies in the rural areas, houses for extension officers have collapsed and there is nobody living in them. If these people are there, let them go and work in the rural areas. The rural areas need them to encourage people to go into agriculture.

Mr Speaker, I remember six years ago, Lukona area in Kalabo District, was able to produce maize to feed the whole of Mongu, but today, that is not happening because people do not seem encouraged at all. People have been advised to go into rice growing, but what advantage is in rice growing? It is not much because not many people buy this rice.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, it is important that when we come up with policies, they be supported. Therefore, the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives must come to the aid of the people as much as possible.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I would now like to discuss the issue of communications and transport. This is a very important sector of our development and specifically, I would like to talk about rail transport.

Mr Speaker, year in and year out, I have sat here and heard about the Livingstone/Mulobezi/Walvis Bay Railway Line. In the Yellow Book, the Livingstone/Mulobezi Railway Line has only been allocated K500 million.

Mr Magande: That is too much.

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I know that this money can do wonders, but I have not seen any change on that railway line despite the money being voted for it.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I would like to encourage the hon. Minister of Transport, and Communications to ensure that the use of money voted for such projects is monitored. Otherwise, it will just be money in the book and not put to good use, and that is not good.

Mr Muntanga: Come this way!

Mr Mabenga: I will never come that way.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: I happen to be National Chairman of this party here.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Which you will never be.

Mr Speaker: Order! Address the Chair.

Mr Mabenga: Sorry, Mr Speaker.

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, I now turn to the issue of canals in areas where transport is by canoe or boat. If you go to most of these places, you will discover that dredging is not done despite the fact that the hon. Minister of Transport and Communications bought some dredging machinery. I have seen this machinery and I would like to know why it is not being put to good use.

Mr Speaker, this machinery must be put to good use for the canals and rivers to be opened up because if the weeds are not cleared, it will be very difficult for these vessels to move. So, it is important for areas like Luapula Province, parts of Northern Province, parts of Western Province and sometimes in areas where they call streams rivers when they collect rain water. This, to them, means a stream becomes a river when it has rained and when it has not, it is no longer a river.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: In Mulobezi.

Mr Mabenga: Places like Kalomo District where they call streams Mulonga [river], when the rain has fallen.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: Mr Speaker, what I am emphasising, in fact, is that communications and transport is put to good use so that our people can easily travel to many parts of our nation.

Mr Speaker, let me get back to the issue of agriculture, again.

Hon. Opposition Members: Again?

Mr Mabenga: Yes.

Mr Speaker, there is a place in Mulobezi called Kataba which is very fertile. Therefore, I and the people in that constituency would be very comfortable and encouraged if that area could be turned into an agricultural resettlement, if not, it should be turned into a farming block. That area stretches from part of Kaoma, which is in Luampa Constituency to the constituency for …

Interruptions

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: I do not want to mention names. Now, that area is very fertile and I am very sure that if this area was turned into an agricultural settlement, it would serve a lot of people especially those that going into retirement. Many people become destitute when they retire because they have little things to do. However, when we encourage these people to go into these areas it will be a good idea and, in fact, most people are very willing to go into agriculture. So, in my view, the idea to turn these areas into agricultural settlements would very good.

Mr Speaker, let me now talk about science and technology.  I would actually like to recommend that rather than looking to the outside all the time …

Major Chizhyuka: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Major Chizhyuka: Mr Speaker, is the hon. Member for Mulobezi, who is also the Chairman for MMD which is the ruling party and is currently Acting President until Saturday, …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Major Chizhyuka: … in order to suggest to this august House that the Ministry of Agriculture and Co-operatives must create a farming block for retired people, …

Hon. Opposition Member: Who are tired.

Major Chizhyuka: … who are tired having served up to sixty-five years and have no capacity to farm effectively in order to ensure household food security for this country? Is he in order to suggest farming is for tired people?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Speaker: Hon. Member for Mulobezi may continue, please.

Laughter

Mr Mabenga: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Before I was interrupted I was just about to turn to science and technology. I believe very strongly that this is an area where we need a lot of development to take place. We need to look at science and technology very seriously as a country. We need to develop in this area because we are able to drive vehicles today, or even ride bicycles or motorbikes because of science and technology. This machinery is made by other people.  Why can we not also start producing this machinery? If we are going to produce this machinery in our industries, it will be cheaper than what we buy from Japan, today. I believe that this is something that is very important and we need to support science and technology as much as possible.

Mr Speaker, I also want to talk about rural electrification. Rural electrification is very important for development. If we are going to talk about agriculture, we need electricity nearer to our areas of operation. Therefore, electricity is very important too. In my constituency, there is a referral hospital called Sichili Mission Hospital. This hospital receives a lot of patients from as far as Kaoma and Kazungula districts. Some patients who come to this hospital require surgery, but because this hospital has no electricity, they cannot be operated on. Therefore, they have to be rushed either to Yeta Hospital in Sesheke District or Livingstone General Hospital.

Mr Speaker, looking at the state of the roads today, how long would a patient in critical condition wait for a vehicle to drive at fifty or twenty kilometres per hour to take them to the hospital? I doubt if they can wait. Therefore, it is important that the Rural Electrification Programme reaches the rural areas because rural areas are also part of the many places where development must go, as alluded to by the hon. Minister in his speech.

Mr Speaker, we have done enough in Lusaka, Ndola and Kitwe. We even have other developments such as the M-phases coming to urban areas now,.

Mrs Musokotwane:  Hammer!

Mr Mabenga: We need these things to go to the rural areas now.

Hon. Members:  Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: The people there voted for us because they knew we were going to do these things for them.

Hon. Opposition Members: Aah!

Mr Mabenga: Let us reciprocate so that our people can see the benefit …

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: … of voting for a listening MMD Government. It is important because it will cement the many things that we talked about during the elections which saw, Mr Rupiah Bwezani Banda come into State House as President.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: So, those who are jealous of him should wait until 2011. That is when things will happen.

Hon. Government Members: 2016!

Mr Mabenga: Oh! 2016 or even beyond.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: So, we want to urge our colleagues on the other side to work with us so that we can develop this country together.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Mabenga: With those words, Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Dr Scott (Lusaka Central): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me the Floor. I would like to open my debate by raising some queries or considerations in relation to the new mining taxing tax regime, in so far as many of us can understand it, following this morning’s question answer session on windfall tax and also in terms of what the hon. Minister had to say when ironing his budget address. The hon. Minister in his address mentioned three changes that are due to take place and will take place from the 1st  of  April, 2009,  in the computation of tax liable from the mines.

The first of these and I quote:

“remove the windfall tax and retain the variable profit tax, which will still capture any windfall gains that may arise in the sector.”

Now, apart from the fact that the variable profit tax is a very minor component of the windfall idea, this same Government, presumably it is the same Government because I do not think the Government changes every time the President is changed, very trenchantly brought the windfall tax, after we had been pushing for it for over a year. The Government said there was going to be no discussion over this windfall tax and mining companies would have to pay it. Now, the windfall tax is pegged at a trigger price of US$2.50 a pound, which is about US$5,500 a tonne. The present level of copper prices, which is creating the problems that the mines have, is US$3,200 to US$3,300 a tonne. In other words, not until the prices are almost double what they are today would the windfall tax apply anyway.

I am totally baffled as to why, when we are sitting to discuss the problems the mines are facing from low prices, the windfall tax has to come into the discussion. It seems to me as if our side has been bamboozled into negotiating what the tax regime will be when the prices return to normal or reasonable profitability. I hope the hon. Minister will explain this during the debate; otherwise, we will be bringing amendments or we will oppose that element. Basically, windfall tax exists to take away surplus or excess profits and not to make life difficult for the mines, like the kind of situation they have found themselves in at the moment. This is why when we introduced this tax we called it ‘windfall’, meaning in excess of what one would normally expect to earn.

Unless the hon. Minister can explain what the relevance of this variation is, we are not going to support it. Is the argument perhaps that, if mining companies keep going at a loss now, they will make excessive profits later on and we will not tax them when the situation returns to normal? In which case, when does the hon. Minister expect the situation to return to normal because some pundits are saying that the present recession will last for years? In which case, the mines are not going to wait forever to get surplus profits.

Sir, I am totally bamboozled by this element and I think everybody on this side is also baffled, judging by the questions being asked. The other tax that puzzles me is this technical business about hedging income being part of mining income. The problem is the arms length issue and as I am sure the hon. Minister is aware that when originally hedging mining incomes were treated separately, it was to avoid transfer pricing. I hope he will explain to us how he intends to avoid the fact that the mining companies are hedging. These things are on subsidiaries as customers. So it is a tricky issue and it is not a simple one which can easily be changed.

The third issue is the 100 per cent capital allowance. This means that 100 per cent capital allowances will be provided against company tax and it is encouraging capital intensive production. This is encouraging the mining companies to bring more JCBs if ,indeed, they are encouraged to do anything at these price levels and to also bring more Euclid transporters, trucks and these enormous machines that we see working the Great North road much to the annoyance of my friend, there at the end listening quietly with his beard which competes with mine.

Laughter

Dr Scott: Surely, what we want the mining companies to do is to retain labour or workers. Why then are we not giving them incentives by giving them an allowance against profit tax based on the number of workers or the wages bill that they are paying  out because that is helping them to retain workers? We are not supposed to be encouraging them to replace workers with capital equipment such as tunneling machines and whatever they can lay their hands on.

Mr Speaker, these are serious issues which I think the hon. Minister needs to explain because I cannot see one element in here (holding up the Budget speech) which is aimed at what we want to achieve, which is to retain jobs in the mines during this very hard period. The hon. Minister should take cognisance of the fact that this hard period could last a very long time. It may be that President Obama can produce a miracle within a matter of weeks, but this whole problem is systemic and worldwide. Its roots are in Iceland, Russia, China and so many other places and therefore, we cannot fix it overnight with a piece of legislation or through deficit spending in the United States of America.

Mr Speaker, we have a lake in Zambia called Kariba. We have Siavonga and Sinazongwe as the two major centres on our side of that lake. Like Lake Tanganyika, Lake Kariba is hot, full of crocodiles and has got kapenta and tiger fish. What is so magical about Kasaba Bay that the Government thinks it is going to get a tourism industry thriving there when the tourism industry on Lake Kariba has failed to thrive in 40 …

Mrs Musokotwane: Hammer!

Dr Scott: …to 50 years? The hotels in Siavonga survive on workshops and not on tourists. They depend on officers from the Ministries of Health, Local Government or the Ministry of Livestock and the ministry of maize …

Laughter

Dr Scott: … who go there to sit in air conditioned splendour, forming visions and statements of chakuti chakuti [this and that].

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: Sir, I am sorry for the use of vernacular. That is what Siavonga survives on. It does not survive on international tourism. Hence, how is Lake Tanganyika going to survive on international tourism? I hope when the hon. Minister of Tourism, Environment and Natural Resources comes to debate, and I am sure, she will …

Ms Namugala: On a point of order, Sir.

Dr Scott: … will answer that query.

Mr D. Mwila: Continue. Hammer!

Dr Scott: I am continuing. While we are on the ministry in question …

Mr Kapeya: Hammer, Guy!

Dr Scott: … can I just say that if the hon. Minister wishes to save money …

Mr Sichamba: On a point of order, Sir.

Mr Speaker: A point of order is raised.

Mr Sichamba: Mr Speaker, it is not my intention to interrupt the hon. Member debating but really, is he in order to mislead this House by saying that there is only Lake Tanganyika in Northern Province and yet we have a lot of tourist sites in the province which can be marketed. I need your serious ruling.

Interruptions

Mr Speaker: The hon. Member for Lusaka Central may continue.

Hon. Oppositions Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, the point I was making was that we have a tendency in this country, to create something new when what we have is not working, instead of addressing ourselves to why it is not working. For example, Zambia Railways did not work but we went ahead and created Railway Systems of Zambia (RSZ) which does not work. Furthermore, we have gone onto build another railway line from Chipata to somewhere in Malawi …

Laughter

Dr Scott: … so that we can also fail because we have not sorted out what was wrong with Zambia Railways in the first place.

Mr Muntanga: Is it only Zambia Railways?

Dr Scott: No, we have more than Zambia Railways. We have the Tanzania - Zambia Railways (TAZARA) and the Mulobezi Express , …

Laughter

Dr Scott: … which is the railway line that connects to Livingstone.

Mr Speaker, if the hon. Minister wishes to save money from unproductive Government spending, allow me to make some suggestions to him on which State institutions he can close down safely without much cost accruing in terms of services. I would start …

Mr Nsanda: With NCC.

Dr Scott: Well, I will leave National Constitutional Conference (NCC) until last.

Laughter

Dr Scott: I will start with the Disaster Management and Mitigation Unit (DMMU) in the office of the Vice-President. This organisation has proved very problematic and I speak as a councilor of the Lusaka City Council. Last rainy season, the council co-ordinated the anti cholera activities in Lusaka. These activities have now, out of some form of politicking, been transferred to DMMU.

The money is in the control of DMMU, it is not under the control of the council and the District Commissioner (DC) is the co-ordinating officer. The DC does not have the kind of management resources that the council has. If hon. Members on that side wish to know how one should run an organisation similar to the DMMU in terms of hunger relief and so forth, they have only to ask the current Minister for Luapula Province who used to be the chairman of something called the Programme to Prevent Malnutrition not to be confused with the Programme Against Malnutrition, (PAM). This programme was integrating Non-Governmental Organisations (NGO’s) together with the Ministries of Health and Agriculture professionals to take care of health and hunger issues in 1992.

Unfortunately, the kind of empire building that takes place inside all Government structures saw the Vice-President’s Office eventually taking it over and effectively rebuilding the contingency planning unit which got a bad reputation during the United National Independence Party (UNIP) times and this is what we are left with.

Mr Speaker, another organisation I would happily see you get rid of is the Energy Regulation Board (ERB) which is not doing its job and all the ministers are here, what does it regulate? It regulates the price of fuel to be double the price in Zimbabwe, Namibia and Malawi so that you only have to drive across the border to fill up your tank.

Now that Zimbabwe’s economy has been dominated by the United States dollar, it is very easy to make calculation. The price is two thirds to one-half across the border, so, what role does ERB play apart from fulfilling a political decision at arms length under the pretence that there is objectivity.

The electrical tariffs which you heard in the Budget Speech are going up. Like wise, a political decision has been made to raise the tariffs and that has got nothing to do with ERB at all. It is just there to lend respectability to a political decision.

Mr Speaker, the Zambia Competition Commission, who is it protecting, what industry has it made competitive? The price of sugar in Zambia is three times the price of which our own producers export to neighbouring countries.

There is a thriving business at the Malawi-Zambia border where people from Zambia cycle across with nothing on the carriers except, maybe, some cash in their pockets. They buy Zambian sugar in Malawi and cycle back by what they call Zulawa no. 1, which is the bicycle one, and they sell it in Zambia for less than what Zambia Sugar is selling it. What is the Competition Commission for? If not to put an end to this kind of monopoly, curtail type of operations, by companies in our own country.

If you ask for a quotation, any hon. Member of this House can write down the exact specifications of the car he/she bought with the Parliamentary loan, fax or e-mail it to Johannesburg. I will give them the address, get a quotation on that same car and you will see that, at least, 10 per cent if not 15 per cent less is spent on a directly imported vehicle than on the same commodity purchased here. Why have a Zambia Competition Commission? We can continue in this vein all night, Mr Speaker, except you will not give me the time.

The Environmental Council of Zambia (ECZ) is not honest for making decisions which are either even one way or another. They wanted to fine Konkola Copper Mine (KCM) for poisoning people by discharging waste in the Kafue River. They wanted to stop oil from being stored in the wrong place in Ndola; they wanted to stop National Milling erecting metal silos in the middle of the capital city’s main street. They were stopped from stopping them and National Milling went ahead.

The Legacy in Livingstone was told to respect the decisions to go ahead with construction of hotels in wild heritage sites. Now, even in my own constituency Lusaka East, two months ago, they wrote a letter saying a certain developer could not build houses there because the environment was not suitable for building houses. Suddenly, last week, they produced a letter saying that the land had suddenly become suitable for building houses.

Laughter

Dr Scott: Why not close it down, it is only K3.5 billion, but you can do a lot with K3.5 billion. The ministry could do that social cash transfers with or without the President in attendance and it could be given to the people in Katete.

Laughter

Dr Scott: Why waste money on the institutions that seem to add respectability, but actually are impotent in the face of political pressures and commercial plots. The NCC has been allocated K50 billion. What could you not do with K50 billion for the police? All that our current Minister of Home Affairs is promising to do is buy them water cannons. This is in a country where you cannot find a fire engine with water in it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: You are going to use water cannons where only 30 per cent of rural households have water to drink while some are going to find water for the water cannon.

Are the police going to take their children to school in water cannons? You need to be sensible with your prioritisation …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Dr Scott: … and stop these cosmetics that we get in all these budgets. Donors are largely to blame for setting these things up, but we should not be given by donors.

Mr Speaker, we will come back as we go through the Yellow Book to the question of why some items last year were so large and are so small this year. My favourite one is over K9 billion spent by my friend Hon. George Mpombo’s ministry on areas displayed.

I saw some planes flying about at the opening of Parliament, I saw a few flying about at the funeral of our beloved late President, but I did not see K9 billion, it was US$3 million at the time because of the way you have displayed it, it should have been much more fireworks or probably a rocket going to the moon.

Laughter

Dr Scott: However, it is now down to K1 billion for this year. There will be a lot of questions about sums of money. We are not complaining about the money that was used for conducting the election, but we are worried about the money that was used for campaigning in the election, public funding. Many of us who will be going through that with a fine-tooth comb

Mr Mukanga: They will just be arrested.

Dr Scott: Mr Speaker, on agriculture, if you compare last year’s with this year’s Budget Address, you will notice that there is nothing new. It is only irrigation again. Villagers who do not have water to drink are going to suddenly turn into the irrigation farmers.

Laughter

 Dr Scott: Why can we not address fundamental basics to get some kind of governance into the rural areas? Fertiliser should not just disappear or be given to bogus people so that we know who is there and we get to our partners, the traditional rulers, to bring in some sort of reasonable system that can stop his K400 billion worth of fertiliser subsidies from being stolen and abused.

Sir, I thank you.

Hon. PF. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi (Luena): Mr Speaker, I thank you for the opportunity to contribute to this motion.

Mr Speaker, if one is to embark on a journey from one point to another, that person will not arrive unless they know where they are going. I say this because in his Budget Speech presentation, the hon. Minister was very clear as to what vision he has for this country, and I quote:

“I see all our citizens in all corners of our country waking up each morning well nourished, in decent housing, with access to clean water and sanitation. I see our citizens having paved roads that do not flood each rainy season, reliable and renewable energy; and high quality health and education services that are within easy reach.”

Mr Speaker, towards the end of his speech, he says that he holds a vision of an educated, healthy, hardworking, well disciplined and prosperous people nourished with plentiful food with the skills and drive required of a 21st century economy and well served legal requirements of modern life.

Mr Speaker, that is a good starting point. The hon. Minister has given hope, but that is only hope. We shall now wait and see whether it is possible to transform that hope into reality. However, he has started us on a good path to development.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister used a term and referred to it as accelerated diversification. I remember that the late President,  Dr Levy Mwanawasa, SC, referred to accelerated development when he addressed the House in January last year. The people of Zambia want accelerated development. This is in resonance with my own philosophy that this country requires more than ordinary development. It requires accelerated development.

In Luena Constituency, we have a term for that. It is called zwelopili yalubilo.

Hon. Members: Meaning?

Mr Milupi: I said accelerated development.

Mr Speaker, let me begin my debate by saying that this year’s Budget has a number of challenges. The first challenge is that this country has limited resources. The revenue base of this country is not enough. For this year, at K15.2 trillion, roughly equivalent to US$3 billion is not enough. Last year’s Budget of K13.76 trillion was also roughly US$3 billion.

Mr Speaker, this is the challenge that this country needs to address. We shall continuously talk about lack of development and poverty if we do not work out a mechanism for growing the size of this Budget and the economy.

Mr Speaker, I am worried that we concentrate, far too much, on the expenditure side of the Budget in this country. You will hear this throughout the debates on the Budget either in this House or elsewhere. There are always demands on expenditure in education, agriculture, tourism and other things. Not enough time is spent talking about the revenue side.

Mr Speaker, when putting up a Budget in the corporate world, the first thing that you look at is where your revenues will come from. You consider how you can increase your revenue before you focus on the expenditure.

Sir, I hope that one day in this country, we shall focus on revenue when we discuss the national Budget. At this stage of development, this country deserves a lot more than K15 trillion.

Mr Speaker, the Budget execution is the other challenge that the hon. Minister has. The plan is good and I shall follow that up with some arguments. However, the challenge is the execution of that plan.

Mr Speaker, all too often, we have referred to the misuse and misappropriation of resources. I would have loved to see a statement in the Budget speech of the hon. Minister making a commitment that this year onwards the Ministry of Finance and National Planning (MoFNP) shall ensure that there is prudent use of our resources and that those who abuse our resources will get punished. I expected the Hon. Minister to say that for the first time, we shall recognise the report of the Auditor-General and ensure that its findings are followed through and those who are found wanting are punished.

Hon. Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, I also want to echo the words of the hon. Member for Bangweulu who said that the timely release of funds is a necessity and hope the hon. Minister will follow that.

Sir, let me now get to specific items of the Budget. As I said, the Budget, in my view is a good departure from the past. It is a good Budget which recognises where we are as a poor country and where we need to be, hence the vision that I quoted.

 Mr Speaker, there are a number of good things that have come up, especially regarding agriculture. The first is that there has been an increase on the FSP to K435 billion. This is good. However, as we have said time and again in this House, the execution of this particular part of the Budget needs to be improved. At the moment, the FSP is a waste of resources.

Hon. PF Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: It needs to be improved. I recognise that the hon. Minister is encouraging diversification into agriculture. I also recognise the fact that he has given relief on Value Added Tax (VAT) on a number of agriculture items including tractors. However, I wish to say that the rural areas have been left out of this relief.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: These are areas like the Western and the North Western Provinces. The areas that grow rice especially …

Mr Munaile: Malole

Mr Milupi: … including Malole …

Mr Munaile: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, I can assure you that a sixty horse power tractor is not effective. One needs at least a ninety horse power tractor in the Western Province. I hope it is not too late for the hon. Minister to revise this so that the rural areas also benefit from having put that party in power.

Hon. Member: Which party?

Mr Milupi: The MMD.

Interruptions

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister is also right to recognise that the livestock industry has the greatest and quickest potential to grow the economy of this country. The industry can create wealth and employment for the vast majority of our people. Therefor, I recognise the increase in the Budget for this industry from K20 billion to K77 billion. This is a good effort and I hope that the new hon. Minister will take up this mantle.

Mr Speaker, I would have loved the percentage increase on the Livestock Ministry to have been in the same ball pack area as that which has been recorded in the Ministry of Tourism which is 196 per cent. However, being that as it may, we need a working programme that will fight diseases, especially the diseases that this Government terms as diseases of national economic importance like Contagious Bovine Pleural Pneumonia (CBPP) and Foot and Mouth.

Mr Speaker, if one owns animals like I do in the village and elsewhere, one cannot buy the medicines and vaccines because the Government has determined that it will solely stock and supply the medicines.

However, what is happening, in effect, is that these medicines and vaccines are not available. As I speak, there is an outbreak of Foot and Mouth disease in my constituency in the Western Province.

Sir, I recognise the fact that the hon. Minister was recently there to inspect the situation. However, we look forward to a time when these diseases will be a thing of the past and our livestock industry will play its full role is growing this economy. After all, in 1964 the Western Province alone had more cattle than Becwana Land (present day Botswana).

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Today, the Western Province experiences disease after disease while Botswana is now a major exporter of beef. We can do better than we have done.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, let me now turn to the subject of mining which I love so much because I have spent most of my life in that particular industry.

Mr Speaker, mining of copper and cobalt on the Copperbelt continues to underpin our economy. It is the largest source of foreign exchange for this country. The global financial crisis is bound to have an adverse effect on the mining industry.

Mr Speaker: Order!

Business was suspended from 1816 hours until 1830 hours.

[THE DEPUTY CHAIRPERSON in the Chair]

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, when business was suspended, I was saying that the global financial crisis is bound to have an adverse impact on mining companies. This is because, first of all, project financing for mining companies is provided by international banks which, as we know, are currently financially stressed. We also know that our Zambian mining products are sold to international companies from countries which have been badly affected by the economic recession.

Sir, before I go any further allow me to pay tribute to the new Minister of Mine and Minerals Development, Hon. Maxwell B. Mwale. He has got experience in small and large scale mining.. Therefore, I think, he will provide the right level of leadership. I also wish to appreciate the appointment of Dr Godwin Beene as Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development. He is a fine metallurgist, I worked with him and I know him well. I expect leadership.

Mr Speaker, let me say that the Government has not yet fully played its regulatory and supervisory role in as far as the operations of mining companies are concerned.

Mr Chongo: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: The Government has been too scared and over respectful of mining companies. As a result, the mining companies have taken advantage of this by squeezing the Government out of all sorts of concessions. In response, the Government has rolled over its back in act of timid submission.

Mr Chongo: Bebe Mudala!

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, the collapse of copper prices from over US$8,000 per tonne to the current price of US$3,200 per tonne or US$1.4 per pound, though dramatic is not catastrophic.

Hon. Members: No!

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, to understand whether the current mining companies can live with the copper price, of US$3,200 per tonne, we need to understand what goes into their production costs. At the moment, the reason mining companies are not able to make profit is because they have very high production costs. The reasons for high production costs are as follows:

(a) an inordinate number of expatriate staff;

(b) those that used to travel between Zambia and South Africa on Fridays or and coming back on Sundays. Planes used to be full with commuters who stay in South Africa, but work for  new mining companies in Zambia;

(c) over use of foreign contractors;

(d) transfer pricing;

(e) incorporation of capital costs in operating costs and I am glad the hon. Deputy Minister of Finance and National Planning is an accountant. These are matters that she needs to look at; and

(f) having not determined the unit production cost. What is important is what we call the denominator. In other words, the total production. As of now, production has gone down and a number of mining companies are unable to support the overhead costs.

Mr Speaker, if our mining companies cannot thrive on copper prices of US$3,200 per tonne as of now, to me, this does not make the country’s future look good.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: What is happening in other countries like the United States of America, Canada, Peru and Chile where there is copper mining is that they are producing at far less than the copper production costs that are being reported by the Zambian mining companies. I urge the Ministry of Mines and Minerals Development to ensure that they play their full supervisory role to ensure that what are reported as production costs are real.

Mr Chongo: Yes!

Mr Milupi: We should not hide behind production costs to lay off workers. I believe that if it was the Zambia Consolidated Copper Mine (ZCCM) days, they could have been rejoicing all the way to the bank even at the current prices.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: I believe it is possible to make profit and retain labour. If you are going to release labour, it must be expensive labour. Looking at the way some mines are structured, it is true that they have a lot of expensive labour which the expatriate labour.

Mr Speaker, to clearly understand why we are timid in the way we deal with these mines, one just has to look at our history. Those of us who have run industries before know what foreigners do to frustrate Zambians. It is not unheard of for them to stop a Cabinet Minister from entering the premises at the gate of Konkola Copper Mine (KCM).

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Just think of what happened at KCM where a Cabinet Minister accompanied by a Provincial Minister was turned away. The cause of this is the timid way in which the Government handles mining companies. However, I expect that through them getting more and more enlightened, they will be able at some point to hold the mining companies to account so that we know what is happening. After all, through ZCCM-IH, we own up to 20 per cent shares in a number of these mining houses.

Mr Speaker, China, India and South East Asia did not become the major power houses they are today in terms of development without having engaged in serious trade. It is by selling their natural resources to which go and fill the factories of foreign countries. Zambia, through various administrations since 1964, has continued the colonial habit of wasting our natural resources. That is why our copper …

Mr Chongo: Is cheap!

Mr Milupi: … goes out as cathode to fill up those factories.

Hon. Minister of Finance and National Development, I look forward to a time when you will stand on that dispatch box and announce a tax against the export of cathode to encourage people to process copper here, in this country.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: If do we do that, …

Hon. Opposition Members: And concentrates!

Mr Milupi: … we shall create rural wealth and high value employment. This is the only way to bring accelerated development in this country and achieving the Vision 2030.

If they continue to get our resources, to go and fill up their factories, they will contribute to their GDP and not to our GDP.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Milupi: Mr Speaker, finally,…

Mr Munaile: Mwileka, mwileka, mudala!

Mr Milupi:…I must say that the start is very good but we need to keep the vision in focus all the time. We need to make sure that the execution of the plan sits with the enthusiasm with which we had described the vision.

I thank you, Mr Speaker.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga (Kalomo): Mr Speaker, I would like to welcome the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to the House. I am very grateful that you opened your speech by recognising the problems that we are facing in Zambia.  When you the know the problems and you admit that they are problems, you become wise. I am saying that you became wise because you accept the problems.

Mr Speaker, I want to restrict myself to what I know.

Hon. Government Member: Agriculture?

Mr Muntanga: Yes, of course.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister kept on saying that he has increased this Budget by 37 per cent as compared to the previous year’s Budget. That Budget you are talking about has only been increased by 7 per cent. The SADC protocol that Zambia signed states that all the SADC members will budget for at least 10 per cent on agriculture. Your Budget of K1.1 trillion against K15 trillion is only 7 per cent and this includes fisheries. In fact, it is 6.7 per cent on agriculture. You have not met the Maputo agreement.

Mr Speaker, I have always debated on the Floor of this House that if you are going to claim that agriculture becomes your main driver of your development, you should honour the Maputo agreement. You should meet the 10 per cent that was agreed. You are now comparing this Budget to last year’s Budget which nearly caused a disaster in agriculture. I am saying so because it dropped its budget in agriculture from 8 per cent to lower than 5 per cent of the whole Budget. It was poorly planned. That is why during the course of the year, they wanted an extra K200 billion to be approved by this House so that they could spend about K300 billion on FRA activities that were not budgeted for. It appears that the MMD Government finds it very easy to spend money without it being budgeted for. When we tell you to budget properly, you refuse.

Mr Speaker, when we in the Opposition said that the money allocated to seventy-five thousand farmers was not enough. The government could not agree with us until it was time for the presidential elections. During the presidential elections, you had K181 billion and you got an extra amount to make it K500 billion which was not budgeted for.

Mr Speaker, now that the government has now decided to increase its budget on agriculture by 37 per cent because it says it spent more last year.  It is like you are feeding a sick baby with soup and when the baby cries more, you bring porridge and say, this is better. The problem is that the agricultural sector in Zambia is never attended to properly. That is why we do not praise you because you think you are doing better when in the actual fact, you are not.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Address the Chair!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I like facing the person I am referring to.

Mr Speaker: No problem but you should address the Chair.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, if you want agriculture to be your main stay, you must be able to budget correctly. I therefore urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to start taking issues to do with the agricultural sector seriously. I look forward to a situation were the hon. Minister will allocate at least above 10 per cent of the total Budget to agriculture.

Sir, in Botswana, they allocate up to 25 per cent of their total national Budget to agriculture.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Address the Chair. You may want to look at him but address the Chair.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairman, through you, this Government should know that we need proper budgeting in this country. The FRA has never been funded properly. We allocated K80 billion to FRA last year and we had to give them an extra amount to make it K300 billion in order for them to buy maize.

Mr Speaker, the President said that he wants the FRA to buy all the maize on the market. Why have we given FRA K100 billion when we know that it requires K300 billion. We all know that the money you have allocated the FRA is not enough. The people in the rural areas are the ones who voted for you. Therefore, you should fund the FRA adequately so that it buys a lot of produce from the people in the rural areas. The Government it seems has not accepted the fact that it needs to keep on increase its annual allocation to the FRA every year. Government treats the FRA as if it is not a department under a ministry. At the current funding levels, FRA runs out funds within three months or six months, and then the Government tells it to sell what it has stored so as to raise money to buy more produce.

Mr Speaker, what the FRA does is not reserving food. It is actually holding food for a while and then sell it afterwards. If the FRA is properly attended to, why is it that every six months when the country has a small food problem, the Government quickly starts thinking of importing? You find it very easy to import but you do not want to take care of the problems that put you in such a situation. I want to remind the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning that this year, despite the problems faced by the FSP, the 80 per cent or 90 per cent of success in terms of maize production for this year is higher than that of the previous year as announced by the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives. What is FRA going to do with just a K100 billion? You are going to subject these villagers or rural people who grow maize to become salaula marketeers. They will start exchanging clothes with maize. You are putting these people into problems. If anything, you need to give the FRA about K600 billion so that it can buy adequate food. 

Mr Speaker, I have told these people to come out clean on the issue of the FSP and find ways of improving it. Now I can see that this will not happen anytime soon. The budget allocation for the FSP shows that it shall continue to support 200,000 farmers and will get K400 billion. This will encourage corruption in agriculture in order to access the limited support that will be offered under the FSP. The FSP will continue supporting 200,000 farmers instead of increasing the number as most people expected. This is not correct.

Mr Speaker, the hon. Minister of Transport and Communications said that it is time for real men to take hard decisions. I therefore, urge the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to take hard decisions. They must be willing to be flexible in using the K400 billion meant for fertiliser. They can take K250 billion or K300 billion to Nitrogen Chemicals of Zambia (NCZ). When NCZ produces this fertiliser, it can sell it to the farmers at much reduced prices.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, there will be no selective support of K50,000. There will be a general subsidy.

Hon. Opposition Member: Correct.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, if NCZ can be funded to that extent, it would be for the good of all farmers. The NCZ has stated that it wants K150 billion and you want to allocate it K30 billion, for what? Salary arrears? Next thing you know workers will be in the streets protesting.

Major Chizhyuka: Knowledge mudala ilashupa! [Knowledge is a difficult thing to     come by]

Mr Muntanga: Make a firm decision hon. Minister. You must release that money.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson Chairperson: Order! Much as I appreciate that you want to assist the hon. Member, let us leave him to debate.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Muntanga: They are just giving me the impetus emphasis.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! You debate.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, these people must make a serious decision.

Hon. Opposition Member: Right!

Mr Muntanga: The hon. Minister should allocate the full amount of money to NCZ. With production in full swing at NCZ, Mamba Mine can supply the coal, which is the main component of ammonium nitrate, which, if combined with ammonium gas, can make explosives.

Mr Speaker, why is the hon. Minister not serious? Is it because Mamba Mine is not  located in his hometown?

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. MMD Members: Aah!

Hon. MMD Member: Wakalipa? [Are you upset?]

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, yes, I am upset.

If Mamba Mine was treated like the other mines, which are situated where the ruling Government has a strong hold, I would not be talking like this because the problems would have been sorted out. However, the problems cannot be sorted out because you are not concerned. You are forgetting that it can actually supply the coal for the NCZ to produce ammonium nitrate for farmers.

Major Chizhyuka: And provide explosives.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, even the corruption that is there now would not exist because fertiliser would be sold at a reduced price. Those are the simple things we are concerned about. We need someone with the political will and power. 
 
Mr Speaker, I hope this Government is listening.

Major Chizhyuka: They are not!

The  Deputy Chairperson: Mr Chairperson, I am saying this because I have seen that the hon. Minister is a positive man. Looking at the livestock development …

Mr Mbewe: On a point of order, Sir.

The  Deputy Chairperson: A point of order is raised

Mr Mbewe: Mr Speaker, I stand here a very disappointed person because of the speaker on the floor. Is he in order to say that Mamba Collieries workers were not paid when the Government did pay the workers? I need your serious ruling.

Hon. MMD Members: Hear, hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

The hon. Member for Kalomo may take that point of order into accountant as he debates.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I thank you for your guidance.

Sir, if we were to invest in Mamba …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The people next to you are not giving you chance to debate.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Can you please give him chance to debate.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, if investing in Mamba Mine means paying arrears to the workers without investment to produce more coal, …

Major Chizhyuka: Too bad.

Mr Muntanga: … then there is a problem. 

Major Chizhyuka: Exactly!

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: What we are saying is that do not take K30 billion to the NCZ, but K300 billion for investment. We are also saying that allocate some money for the development of Mamba Collieries. We believe that sending K8 billion to pay salary arrears is not enough. At least the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning understands this.  
 
Mr Speaker, at one point, the mover of this motion said the roads in Chadiza were in very good condition, until the President found out that it was not true.

Laughter

Mr Muntanga: I have told them not to argue like that.

Mr Speaker, as I alluded to earlier, the hon. Minister is a positive man. He has allocated K70 billion to livestock development. I think that K70 billion is fair.

Interruptions

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, they are taking my time. 
 
The Deputy Chairperson: Order! They are taking your time indeed, but for you to be heard properly there should be order. There is a lot of wide consultation in the House. Please give him chance to debate. If you want to consult, do it quietly. You may continue.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, the money that has been allocated for livestock development is fair. I have noticed that in this year’s Budget, a lot of money has gone into districts for pilot camps. They have given an average of between K200 million and K700 million for the construction of camps for veterinary officers, which I am quite happy with. They have also allowed a bit of money for the control of diseases at the district level. This is exactly what I was talking about last time. I told the other hon. Minister that when they spread the money, we should be able to see it. In this year’s Budget, we are seeing that spread.

Mr Speaker, in last year’s Budget, we did not see this spread of money in the districts. I would like to urge the hon. Minister that the money that has been taken to the districts …

Interruptions

The  Deputy Chairperson: Order! Can the hon. Members on my right please keep order?

Major Chizhyuka: That is why they do not learn.

The hon. Member may continue.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Speaker, I want them to ensure that the money is utilised for what it is intended. It is a good thing that no monies have been allocated for seminars and workshops. I would like to implore the hon. Minister to ensure that the people spending this money do not turn around and say they would like to train farmers in looking after cattle, for instance. They should not do that because I am pretty sure that the farmers already know how to do that. The money must be used for what it is indicated for in the budget. It will help us a lot.

Mr Speaker, my other worry is that out of the K1 trillion of the total budget, there is K400 billion going to the Fertiliser Support Programme (FSP), and another K160 billion that is supposed to come from donor funding to support this component in agriculture.  If from K1 trillion, you subtract K400 billion for FSP, you remain with K600 billion. When you further subtract about K200 billion as donor funds, it means that already, there is a problem. With this credit crunch, let us pray that our partners honour up, otherwise there will be no money for agriculture.

Hon. Opposition Members: Shame!

Mr Muntanga: When you look at it, K200 billion is coming from the donors. Already, the agriculture sector will depend on the donor. Let us have money within the Government to ensure that a very small component comes from outside.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: If we can do that, we will be able to achieve a lot. The bottom line is that the money must come from within.

Mr Speaker, the President did say that he would create a Ministry of Livestock and Veterinary Services. There is no such ministry. I have looked through the Yellow Book and all I can see is a department.  This means that this Government has appointed a Minister to head a department.

Hon. Opposition Member: I am also wondering.

Mr Muntanga: Mr Chairperson, this money we thought would be used for positive development must now sustain an hon. Minister.

Hon. Opposition Member: To pay a Minister.

Mr Muntanga: What are you doing? If you want to create a Ministry of Livestock and Veterinary Services, please come to this House and put it in the budget.

Mr Speaker, we do not want the money intended for projects to go to this department. Get that money from the Ministry of Finance and National Planning budget. It is a good thing because we proposed it. However, you are still short of what we asked you to do.

Mr Speaker, already people are saying that one is a senior hon. Minister and the other one a deputy minister because you have appointed a minister in a department. That is the correct way to put it. I want the hon. Minister to have full powers so that he can make decisions. There was a decision to have a Permanent Secretary in the Ministry of Livestock and Veterinary Services. Silently, that proposal was withdrawn. We have Permanent Secretaries for agriculture and co-operatives, respectively. Why can we not have a permanent Secretary for that ministry as well? We announced this publicly but it was reversed secretly. We want this to be taken sincerely.

Mr Speaker, in agriculture, you will serve a lot of problems. I know that the hon. Minister announced this afternoon and alluded to the fact he is not very sure whether he is going to import 100,000 metric tones of fertiliser. He said that they will buy the commodity locally. Therefore, I want to take it that you are not importing. Through the Chair, I would like to appeal to the hon. Minister not to divert the money which was intended for the importation of fertiliser. Unless, there are extra interests for the dollars to move out of the country, we should reserve it to buy 100,000 metric tonnes of fertiliser that is coming in from irrigated crop. Let us make sure that the money be available when the crop is ready.

Mr Speaker, there has been a general reduction on the fisheries component. Check it out! The only increase is on agriculture. Otherwise, the general increase on fisheries reduced. Why is it like this? You are talking about fish culture. You should increase the budget allocation for fisheries. When we talk about fish development, let us speak through funding. I know that there is no time, but please, check the time.

I know that it is a regional thing for the control of tsetse flies for Zambezi rural and the Okavango area. That is why you have put money there. Let us put money and increase the control of tsetse flies within our country. You have reduced the allocation of money that is required to set traps against tsetse flies locally. Instead, you have shown what you intend to do regionally.

Mr Speaker, before I end, I want to ask the hon. Minister of Agriculture and Co-operatives to go further and remove all these agricultural officers from the camps which are contaminated by the misuse of fertiliser programme.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muntanga: You must move them around. If you cannot change them, move them. You should also move the people at the headquarters because they are the ones who are going to cause trouble for you. If you do not make those decisions, you will still come here and we will tell you that you would have done nothing.

Mr Speaker, I thank.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma Zambezi (West): I would like to thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute this debate.

Mr Speaker, before I go further, I must say from the beginning that this is a very bad budget.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, this budget is a very bad one.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: It is a budget that is going to take us ten years backwards.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, we all know that Zambia is undergoing an economic crisis. Yet, this budget has not done any thing to make Zambia come out of it.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, you know that this country is in an economic crisis because all the major economic indicators show that it is. Inflation is going up. It is now at 16 per cent up, from the single digit, early last year. Clearly, inflation has gone out of control. Yet, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has not told us in this budget how he is going to bring down inflation to a single digit. In fact, he is projecting two digits, 10 per cent. Surely, we must be moving forward rather than backwards.

Mr Speaker, everybody was expecting that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning was going to tell us how he was going to grow the economy to more than 10 or 12 per cent. He is now indicating the economy’s projected growth to be at 5 per cent. That is a very big disappointment.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: You cannot expect to eradicate poverty in Zambia by growing the economy at 5 per cent. For the past few years, the economy has been growing at an average of 5 per cent.  Yet, nothing is happening in Zambia and the economy in general.

Sir, we also know that the exchange rate has continued to depreciate because of the same economic crisis. It is now K5,000 per dollar from K3,000 last year. That is an indication that it is a crisis. People have lost confidence in this economy and the leadership of MMD Government.

 Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, we were expecting the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to explain how he was going to restore confidence in the economy so that the Kwacha could pick up again.

 Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, we know that the economy is going through a crisis because the interest rates have continued to rise. The interest rate is over 23 per cent in some banks.

Sir, with such high interest rates, you cannot expect the economy to grow neither do you expect businessmen or women to go to banks to borrow money for investments. It is impossible. The hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should have told us how he was going to help reduce the interest rates characterising the economy.  Nevertheless, he is silent on this matter in this budget speech.

Sir, we know that the economy is in crisis because of the rising of unemployment levels.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Sir, the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning should have told us how he was going to create jobs in this economy. He should have told us how many jobs he was going to create as a result of this budget.

Mr Speaker, all the countries that are under going an economic crisis, like Zambia, have put in place stimulus plans to stimulate the economy so that wealth is restored, inflation is contained and interest rates come down. We have not seen much in our country and in the budget.

Major Chizhyuka: Wisdom from the Chairman of the Economic Committee!

For Example, Mr Speaker, the response by world economists to the economic crunch in the developed countries has been to reduce interest rates. At least, that is one of the measures they have taken. The central banks have also intervened in the market to ensure that interest rates are reduced.

Mr Speaker, what is important is that when interest rates are low…

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! The dialogue between the Deputy Minister on my right and Hon. Kambwili on my left does not seem to help maintain order in the House. Can we all please listen so that the hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning and other Members of the executive who want to come and answer some of the questions being raised  can get what he is saying.

Can the hon. Member continue.

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, the reason why many economies are reducing their interest rates is to enable the business people and companies to borrow cheaply from banks and  be able to invest to ensure economic  growth, job creation, output in the economy  going up and inflation coming down, as simple as that. That is how you stimulate the economy. However, the response in Zambia to the economic crisis has been to allow commercial banks to increase interest rates, which is quite the reverse. How do you expect people to have money to invest in the economy for the economy to grow? 

Major Chizhyuka: How?

Mr Speaker, what is missing in this Budget is for the hon. Minister to tell us what economic package or stimulus plan he has put in place for this country. There is no stimulus plan here except doing things the usual way, providing incentives here and there for various sectors in the economy which has been happening even in the past. He is not treating this as an economic crisis. He thinks things should be done the normal way and that is a tragedy.

Mr Matongo: It is business as usual!

Mr Kakoma: It is business as usual! The brains of this country through the Economic Association of Zambia (EAZ) have advised us, timely, that we need to do business in an unusual manner because the situation that we are faced with is not usual.

However, the reason why we say that the Government is not serious in taking measures to solve unusual situations is that, for example, if you look at the economic policies for this year, generally, they are the same as those for last year. Such as maintaining macro-economic stability which could have worked when the economy was okay. Even when the economy is in a crisis, you still want to maintain macro-economic stability.

Interruptions

Mr Kakoma: Maintaining stability at high interest rates; at high exchange rates; at a declining GDP growth rate; and with high prevailing unemployment levels.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Are those the policies you want to follow?

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Bad policies!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, macro-economic stability is only workable when the economy is stable.

Mr Chazangwe: Tell them!

Mr Kakoma: You cannot put in place macro-economic stability policies when the economy is unstable.

Hon. UPND Member interjected.

Laughter

Major Chizhuyuka: Bakaiya aba bakaiya ba mudala!

Interruptions

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kakoma: … this country needs a government that will put in place a serious stimulus plan to save this economy from this economic crisis.

Interruptions

Mr Kakoma: Sir, let me now address specific issues in the Budget. Firstly, I will look at mining.

Mr Speaker, the Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning has proposed to abolish the windfall tax. This is a very serious mistake. We have fought over the years to tax the mining sector for the country to benefit from its natural resources. Last year, we managed to introduce the windfall tax.

Sir, the windfall tax was meant to tax the mining companies on their additional revenue as a result of rising copper prices. However, by proposing to abolish the windfall tax, we are removing from our statutes any tax provision for us to take care of that situation.

Mr Speaker, every country in the world is taking measures to stimulate their economy so that the economies grow. When the economies grow, copper demand will go up and prices will also go up.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Sir, suppose by October this year the copper prices pick up again?

Mr Mwiimbu: Even June!

Mr Kakoma: Copper prices can pick up again even in June.

Mr Muyanda: Yes, what will you do?

Mr Syakalima: We will reject that!

Mr Kakoma: What measures are we going to have? What tax regime are we going to use to get money from the windfall tax gains?

Mr Muyanda: Why are you using buccaneering margins?

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: Buccaneering!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, just last week, the copper prices were at $2,000 per tonne. Early this week, the copper prices picked up to $3,100. This afternoon, the copper prices have picked up again to K3,415 per tonne.

Major Chizhyuka: Just imagine!

Hon. UPND Members: Dollars!

Mr Kakoma: It is still picking up.

Hon. UPND Members: Dollars!

Major Chizhyuka: Repeat that!

Mr Kakoma: Indicating that there is an upward trend in respect of copper prices. Dr Musokotwane knows this very well. It is a business cycle. Sometimes there is slump and other times a recovery. Last year, there was a slump in copper prices now there is a recovery. Therefore, when copper prices recover, we must have in place a tax regime to capture that.

Mr Speaker, it is wrong to assume that we can take care of the additional revenue from rising copper prices by having a variable profit tax in place. That is wrong and not practical.

Sir, in this country this Government has no capacity to monitor how much money the mines are making. If we will depend on the mines to declare profits before we tax them then we will never get any money from the mining companies.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Muyanda: Never!

Mr Kakoma: This is because many a time they are reporting losses. How much money have you ever collected from taxing companies through company tax because that is based on profits? Nothing! Therefore, it was going to be better if the hon. Minister did it the other way. He could have abolished the variable profit tax and maintained the windfall tax.

Hon. UPND Members: Yes!

Mr Mwiimbu: Tell them we shall pause!

Mr Kakoma: It is even easier for us to monitor the prices on London Metal Exchange because …

Major Chizhyuka: We shall pause and walk out!

Mr Kakoma: … we know that the price is this and …

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Mr Kakoma: … they exported so much and this is our windfall tax. It is not easy for us to know how much profit Mopani Copper Mines has made. If you asked the hon. Minister how much profit Mopani Copper Mines made last year, he does not know.

Hon. UPND Members: He does not know!

Mr Kakoma: Meanwhile, he wants to tax them based on the profits.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, I strongly oppose the abolishing of the windfall tax.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: If he brings that proposal, we shall make amendments. We shall oppose it.

Interruptions

The Deputy Chairperson: How many hon. Members are speaking on the Floor? This is unbelievable!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: There is supposed to be one person talking. As much as I appreciate the fact that you want to help him, you are not really helping the situation. Can we be orderly?

You may continue, please.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Hammer mudala!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Chairperson, it would be very difficult …

Hon. Members: It is Mr Speaker iwe!

Mr Kakoma: He is a Chairperson now seated in the Speaker’s Chair.

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Order! Order!

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, …

The Deputy Chairperson: Please, use the right terminology.

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: … once we remove this windfall tax, it will be very difficult to reintroduce it. We will be giving them ammunition to start arguing again. There is no harm in maintaining that windfall tax. In any case, if the argument is that prices of copper will come down and they should not pay windfall tax, of course, if prices come down they will not pay, then there is no problem?

Interruptions

Mr Muyanda: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: However, let it remain on the statutes.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: So that when prices pick up we shall have …

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Sir, if the mines want to reduce costs let them look at other cost saving measures.

Mr Muyanda: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, sometimes if you go to Solwezi, you will find the managers of Kansanshi Mining Plc staying in very nice hotels. They do not want to stay in houses. Actually, they have even demolished all the houses for the staff so that they stay in hotels. That is very expensive.

Major Chizhyuka: And flying!

Mr Kakoma: Further more, they are flying out all the time. They are always going and coming back to Johannesburg or Australia on weekends. Those are costs that we can easily tax rather than denying Zambians.

Major Chizhyuka: God given country!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

I think we are degenerating into disorder. Why do you want to shout and derail the person speaking? He is the one speaking at the moment therefore, give him chance to speak.

Can you continue, please.

Mr Kakoma: Sir, I will move onto a related item which is on income tax.

Mr Speaker, this year, all companies in Zambia including the mines, contributed only K1.1 trillion as company tax to the Treasury. However, the poor Zambian workers have been asked to contribute K2.6 trillion through Pay as You Earn( PAYE).

Hon. UPND Members: Aah!

Mr Kakoma: This is more than double that what companies are going to contribute.

Major Chizhyuka: Maawe!

Mr Kakoma: This is unfair because the tax system must be fair. It is unjust. There is no way you can make poor people pay more than rich people.

Hon. UPND Member: It is a shame!

Mr Kakoma: It is cruel! It is a very bad taxing system. The big companies that are making huge profits must contribute more to the Treasury than the poor people.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!{mospagebreak}

Mr Kakoma: It is also unfair for the Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning to provide a tax-free income of K100,000 only. It is not cushioning the Zambian workers from the economic crisis. The tax system should have provided for the workers to have tax relief to more tax credit than what has been provided for.

Mr Muyanda: It is a bad budget!

Major Chizhyuka: Very bad!

Laughter

Mr Muyanda: The whole budget!

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, lastly, I am saddened by this Budget, especially that it relates to my province, North-Western Province.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr D. Mwila: Ba Muchima!

Mr Kakoma: Sir, North-Western Province again will become a forgotten province under this new administration.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: We were better off when the late President Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC was there because he attached a lot of value to the province.

Mr Muyanda: Hear!

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, this new administration has neglected the province.

Mr Muyanda: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Mr Speaker, for example, our main project in the province which is the Mutanda/Chavuma Road…

Mr Muyanda: Hear!

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

Laughter

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Hon. Member for Sinazongwe, please, exercise caution and be orderly.

Laughter

Mr Kakoma: I was saying that the project has not received funding. Mr Speaker, when the late President, Dr Levy Patrick Mwanawasa, SC was there, he committed himself to completing the tarring of the Mutanda/Chavuma Road.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Kakoma: Last year, he provided K37.5 billion and he promised that when things got well, especially from the mining sector, he would provide more funding for that road. Sir, unfortunately in this year’s budget, they have reduced funding from K37.5 billion to only K31 billion. This means that at the current cost of tarring at K1.2 billion per kilometre only a few kilometres will be tarred this year out of the remaining stretch of 300 kilometres. When are we going to have that road completed? That is why I am saying we are going back to the old days when North Western Province would become a Cinderella Province, highly neglected and allowing the people to wallow in poverty forever and ever, yet, getting their votes. This time around, we shall not allow them to get the votes until they do the correct thing.

I thank you, Sir.

Hon. UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L J Mulenga (Kwacha): Mr Speaker, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to contribute to the debate on the Motion.

Mr Speaker, I will start my contribution to the debate by beginning to analyse issues from the pictures which are on the cover of the Budget Speech. It is very important to know what you want to do as a nation and for this we should not be like children, let us be men of wisdom who know what they want to do.

Hon. Members: And women!

Mr L J Mulenga: Yes, and women.

Mr Speaker, on this page there is the planned Lusaka multi - facility economical zone and as such I would like to ask this Government who is going to be the beneficiary of this. We must ask ourselves these simple questions.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Hon. Member: Hammer! Wamwa diesel ya bwanji iwe!

Mr L J Mulenga: Is it ourselves or is it the Chinese? We must ask ourselves to whom this benefit is going. We must ask ourselves the question on how much the Zambian people, who are going to be employed, will be paid and how much they will be taxed. We must ask ourselves these questions and without fear or favour.

Hon. Members: Hear, hear!

Mr L J Mulenga: We must ask ourselves who will be the best beneficiary to this development. Who, who who is going…

Laughter

Hon. Member: Wamwa diesel ya bwanji iwe!

Mr L J Mulenga: ...to be.

Interruptions

Mr L J Mulenga: Finally, Sir, …

Laughter

Mr L J Mulenga: … I want to pray for this Government that God himself who was, who is and who is just shall guide them to do the just things.

I thank you, Sir.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu (Bweengwa): Mr Speaker, I would like to acknowledge the debate of the previous speaker, my brother Hon. Mulenga by saying that that is how it should be.

Mr Speaker, I will be very brief but from the outset I would like to say that I am equally concerned with the cover. There is a camouflage with underlying meaning. I am a young hon. Member who is very new in this House and I have seen many themes…

Hon. Member: You are a Namibian.

Mr Hamududu: There is no problem. I have seen a lot of themes and I will begin with the first theme. The first theme of the budget policy statement was, ‘from stability to improved service delivery’ a fake promise because to date service delivery has actually gone down, it is much lower than it was when they were drafting that statement.

Secondly, if you want to have an example, just go and analyse FSP and through that programme you will know to what extent service delivery has gone down in this country.

Mr Chizhyuka: To the dogs.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, this is a proper failure. The second was ‘unlocking resources for economic empowerment’. I would like to say that the resources of this country are even more locked today than yesterday. Mr Speaker, I wonder what they are trying to do. When you make these themes, do you go back to your files and learn that you are actually deceiving Zambians? There is no improved service delivery from that so called stability. The resources which we are given under the economic empowerment are more locked than before. Now we have this theme of enhancing growth through competitiveness and diversification and I would like to go in this debate or address and prove to this House that this will not be achieved because it is a pipe dream.

Mr Speaker, I will start by saying that this Government does not understand the problem with their system. This Government has failed to identify the most important factor in improving service delivery and unlocking resources for the Zambians for empowerment and also to do what they want to do in this address. The problem we have in this country is that of the civil service, although not elected, the civil service is a transmission belt for these policies into deliverables but this Government has failed to do something about this transmission belt of these policies into deliverables.

Mr Speaker, you can bring a good budget here but it is just window dressing. These intentions will not be translated because you have a faulty vehicle and you have failed to repair it − the civil service. Mr Speaker, when the MMD Government came into office, they destabilised the civil service.

They did away with highly trained people and highly trained professionals from UNIP regime. They were fired and transferred left, right and centre. They began to bring in cadres into the civil service. Therefore, they have put wrong spare parts in this machinery and it is not working.

Laughter

Mr Hamududu: Until this Government realises that it has put wrong spare parts and removes them, I want to tell you that, no matter how good the intentions are in these addresses, they will not be translated into an actual delivery process. For me, even the very few things that look like they are positive here, I am afraid that the vehicle they have is very faulty. In this budget address, I have not seen any acknowledgement of this problem. This Government has not acknowledged the problem that exists in our country and the problem that is preventing us from translating these policies into what people can have.

Mr Speaker, this Government needs to find a formula to motivate the civil service so that it begins to deliver. Without doing that, this Government will not go anywhere. It has ignored to reward the issue of talent to this civil service. I want to tell the new Minister of Finance and National Planning that you can craft something that looks okay, but if the vehicle that transmits goods and service to the people is defective it cannot transmit. However, until you discuss these issues with your colleagues in cabinet, all departments up to district level to fine-tune the civil service will not maximise its ability to deliver. By the time this MMD Government is out of power, it will actually not be traceable and we will wonder whether it ever existed because things will remain the way they were even before it came into power, if not worse off. So, you have failed to make a mark because you lack a sound vehicle.

Hon. Opposition Member: They have no vehicle.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, if necessary, this Government needs to trim the civil service and use empowerment fund to give to people who are going to be retrenched, as exit package so that they can go into business and leave effective talented people to drive the transmission system for this country. The Mulungushi House and Cabinet Office need to be shaken. That dust which is there needs to be removed. Only then, may we deliver to our people.

Mr Speaker, let me just add something on agriculture, although Hon. Muntanga has dealt with the key issues. I have no problem per se with the allocation for FSP. I am afraid for my fillers that the Ministry of Agriculture and Cooperatives has no plan on the way forward.

Hon. Opposition Member: Yes, you are right.

Mr Hamududu: They have no idea. If you cannot distribute simple inputs like bags of fertiliser which can be seen, what can you do? Even if up to now people are having their workshops and so on, I doubt if they can deliver. We have a serious problem. For me, the hon. Minister’s indication to give money, is fine, but the structure and system to deliver is in question.

Mr Speaker, I was very disappointed with the response of the Minister for Agriculture and Co-operatives and his subsequent linking of his response with the statement by His Excellency, the President’s Address to this House. He never really showed that they have understood the problems that are obtaining in that ministry. The issue of ensuring food security, I want to suggest that the name of this ministry must be changed from Ministry for Agriculture and Cooperatives to Ministry for Agriculture and Food Security so that it becomes more accountable. You cannot have people who are starving. Therefore, as I am debating today, I have just received serious phone calls from my constituency that there is no maize at the moment that people can buy.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Right now, people are starving, they have the money, but they cannot buy maize. All you do is spend money on the people who are in town, only. I am happy with my elder brother, Hon. Sichilima who is indicating …

Mr Sichilima: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: … that he will take some relief food there. People have money to buy maize, but there is no maize right now in Bweengwa Constituency. So they are sleeping without food …

Mr Mooya: Even Momba.

Mr Hamududu: … and Momba Constituency. A 50 Kg bag of maize is costing over K100,000 and I do not want any hon. Minister to come and challenge me here, I will just go with you in the vehicle to my constituency so that you see on your own and get embarrassed.

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the Ministry for Agriculture and Co-operatives must ensure food security, even their input in this budget is very weak in the sense that they have not realised the problem. For example, in the livestock area, my senior Member of Parliament has already indicated, the poultry allocation of K70 billion for livestock development is really nothing. The livestock sector has no value as compared to a crop among the rural farmers. There are some provinces in these other countries where the whole province lives on livestock. Go to Omaheke region of Namibia, people there only keep livestock and they are all rich. All the people who come from Omaheke, who are working in town, every weekend they buy feed and take it to their animals and they are more prosperous than people who are growing maize and other crops. However, we have not put the necessary input to develop the livestock sector. This country is endowed with beautiful fertile land to give you the grass and the waters to support livestock …

Major Chizhyuka: Western Province.

Mr Hamududu: … from Livingstone to Chiengi and everywhere. This Government has not realised the fact that livestock can cushion famine when there is drought. I want to say that last week in Monze, the farmers were stranded with their livestock. The marketing policy is so weak and this Government is doing nothing to facilitate proper marketing of livestock. We have big untapped markets in the Congo DR and Angola, do not even talk about Europe for now, with huge markets that can absorb all the livestock we have in our provinces. Our people are failing to send their children to sell meat because they are saying the meat has flooded in Lusaka with these small tuntemba abattoirs. This Government must facilitate their marketing of our livestock in urban markets.

Hon. Opposition Member: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, in this budget, I do not see any indication of understanding the problem by providing for the marketing of our livestock, to look at your market just a stone throw. I want to tell you that most of the meat they eat in Katanga Province is flown on top of your heads from South Africa ...

Mr Lubinda: Brazil.

Mr Hamududu: Yes. … and Brazil, yet you are just seated here. Your farmers in Monze and everywhere are just grazing animals and cannot kill them because they have no market to sell them to and you are saying,” no, we are doing something.”

Hon. Government Member interjected.

Mr Hamududu: No, that is not my job, my job is to talk and you people who are in Government must deliver. I will never do that even if I know how to do it. It is not my job. My job is to make you accountable and if you do not do that, you will be thrown out of office.

Hon. Opposition Member: 2011 kuya bebele.

Mr Hamududu: The issue of food security must be paramount in this Government. You are dehumanising Zambians. It is a mockery to go to bed without food. Right now, my people are sleeping without food because there is no maize that is affordable and you are telling us that FRA has maize. No, this is not a laughing matter. You have eaten and those of us on this side have not.

Major Chizhyuka: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: You cannot laugh, this is human life.

Major Chizhyuka: That is why their stomachs are so big.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I want to move on to the other issue of Chinese investment. China cannot be a donor to Zambia. China is in the same shoes as us, it is a developing country. If they come and cheat you that they are donors then, they have crooked you. They are poorer people in China than in Bweengwa.

UPND Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: What donation can they give us? The $39 million which they gave you was a mockery. They have told you and my brother is there, the Deputy Minister of Commerce, Trade and Industry, to tell me when they are going to bring the K900 million investments. They are raising it from Chambeshi. They are telling you they will invest the money, and yet, you give them tax incentives. They make the money in Chambeshi and they are cheating that they are investing it. Why can they not bring that money?

Hon. Opposition Member: Shame!

Mr Hamududu: You must be very careful with China, they are very crafty. If you want to deal with China you must also be crafty.

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: What they are doing …

Interruptions 
 
Mr Hamududu: Wait, I visited the place and found that Zambian workers are living in fear.

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Can the hon. Member address the Chair so that you do not invite comments from the people on the right.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hammer!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the purported US$900 million Chinese investment in this country is a hoax. These investors are raising that money from our natural resources and under paying our workers. The Chinese bring their convicts to work here and want to pay our workers like convicts. The Zambian employees are not convicts.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: The convicts’ wages must be for their convicts and not for Zambians.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: The Government must be very care with this so-called economic zone. My fear is that these projects are in towns. These structures illustrated here are a camouflage (pointing at the cover of the Budget Speech). I would like to give an example of Namibia with regard to these so-called economic zones. Those who read will recall the Ramatex Textile and Garment Factory in Namibia. This was a very big textile project that was making garments for America under the African Growth and Opportunity Act (AGOA). This project has been closed, leaving workers and socks are printed so poor. Windhoek, which was previously the cleanest town in Africa, is now polluted.

Major Chizhyuka: By the Chinese.

Mr Hamududu: This information can be checked on the internet. These so-called investors should not be put near the airport or where people are living because by the time they leave, Lusaka will be polluted.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: They will under paid Zambian workers without even paying tax. They may put up camouflage structures but really, what is the benefit to this country?

Mr Kambwili: Yes, the value.

Mr Hamududu: Therefore, I would like to urge hon. Members on your right to treat the Chinese with care as one is required to be very craft when dealing with Chinese. They are not donors and will never be in our life time. These people must be treated us partners. The alleged US$39 million loan which was committed in machinery was another hoax. They showed us the loan and are now asking for tax incentives because they are investing the money from that loan in this country. On the other hand, they are busy minting money in the Chambeshi area where the Government has given them tax incentives and are under paying Zambian workers because they bring convicts to come and serve their sentences here in the mines. Our Zambian employees are not convicts …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: … and should not get convicts’ wages.

Major Chizhyuka: If you are not listening, Zambians are listening out there (pointing at hon. Government Members).

Mr Hamududu: Zambia must be careful with China. I think the copper producing countries must come together. It is very simple because there are only three major copper producing countries in the world. These are Zambia, Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC) and Chile. These countries need to come together and devise strategies to maximise earnings from their copper. It seems the Chinese want to take charge of copper production …

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: … when they are the major market. Our copper industry will be compromised if we are not careful.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: I think that we must revive Copper Producing Economies (COPEC) and begin to talk with our fellow copper producing countries.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: I want to see the hon. Minister of Mines and Minerals Development visit DRC and Chile more often than some of these countries that he goes to.

Mr Mwaanga interrupted.

Mr Hamududu: Yes, Hon. VJ, there are very few countries …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order! Address the Chair.

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, the COPEC project must be revived so that we can come together and share notes with our colleagues. If we do not do that, the Chinese will take control of all the mines before we realise it …

Mr Kambwili: Yes!

Mr Hamududu: … and sell copper to themselves. If this happens, we should forget about higher copper prices because they will control everything from production up to selling point.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Therefore, I think that right now, the Chinese have beaten us clean. We need to go back to the drawing board because if we are not careful, we will sell this country to the Chinese.

Mr D. Mwila: Hear, hear!

Interruptions

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, in conclusion, I want to talk about infrastructure in this country. We need to be very ambitious on infrastructure like Dr Kaunda was. Despite being built before I was born, this building is a marvel to look at. Can the hon. Members on your right do such a project yourselves?

Hon. Opposition Members: Never!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, during his time, Hon. Mwaanga was very ambitious. That ambition must come back and it should not be business as usual. We need serious public works in this country. I said the other time when I was debating that each district council must have a grader and basic equipment and not that machinery which gallivant everywhere. We want to grade the Monze-Niko but do not know where the equipment is. Even when the hon. Minister wants to bring it, someone else also wants it. We want every council to be capitalised. It has happened before and therefore, I cannot be told that it is impossible now. When this country was poor, each council had a grader.

Major Chizhyuka: When this country was really Zambia.

Mr Hamududu: Yes. Hon. Mpombo cannot say that I am dreaming. I am talking about something that happened in this country and therefore, next time he stands up to speak, he should not say that I am dreaming. Maybe it is my uncle who will be dreaming that time.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Hamududu: Mr Speaker, I had a lot of things to say but I want to end by saying that the provincial distribution of projects is worrying. On the upgrading of institutions of learning, Southern Province has been skipped completely.

Major Chizhyuka: Yes, completely.

Mr Hamududu: Yet, we have one of the oldest learning institutions, which is the Livingstone Trades, where Hon. Mwaanga I think went to study. I think when the late Nkumbuka was the hon. Minister of Education back then, he officially opened that institute. However, up to-date this Government has no plans to upgrade it to university level. There is no investment in education in Southern Province but the Government is busy upgrading institutions in other parts of the country.

Mr Mulyata: In Central Province.

Mr Hamududu: Yes, in Central Province and where the Movement for Multi-party Democracy thinks it is popular. We demand that the Government identifies one institution in Southern Province and develops it. Our people should not become uneducated in the next few years. The Government should choose between Monze College of Education and Livingstone Trades and upgrade it into a university of technology. After all, we are well positioned and we will even have students from neighbouring countries.

So I am very concerned that in this year’s Budget Southern Province has been completely left out and I do not know why this has been done. We will take the Government to task over this and I want to warn hon. Members on your right to be prepared for hard debate this year. We will make them accountable and will not compromise.

Mr Speaker, I thank you.

Hon. Opposition Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka (Bahati): Mr Speaker, I also want to add my voice to the voices of wisdom that have spoken before me. This year’s Budget, in my own understanding and like every other budget, be it institutional or at home, will not at all satisfy everybody.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: However, it is incumbent upon each individual to try and buy a way in that budget and then shape him or herself very well …

Major Chizhyuka: To buy again?

Mr Chimbaka: … in order to appreciate what the budget provisions are.

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: Mr Speaker, I may not be a veteran economist but as a student of economics, I can say that what is very important, like Hon. Charles Milupi alluded to, is the vision that the provisions in the Budget intend to achieve. It is true that there has been a departure from the past Budget speeches we have been exposed to but as I digest and read the provisions of this Budget, I am able to visualise and actualise my dream. However, this is dependent on the Government’s prudent and effective application of what it has appropriated in this Budget.

Mr Speaker, I want to refer to some other aspects such as agriculture.

Interruptions

Mr Chimbaka: Yes, I am an educationist, but I want to talk about agriculture in particular for Luapula Province. Last year, the Government appropriated close to K50 billion towards a programme called Luapula Agricultural and Rural Development, PLARD. Under that programmed, the people of Luapula Province were going to benefit from fish and fisheries development, agro marketing and food production.

Mr Speaker, despite the Government disbursing huge amounts of money for PLARD, it is a very sad state of affairs in that the people of Luapula have not in any way or by any per cent benefited from the huge amounts of money. The former Minister of Finance and National Planning made an effort to visit Luapula and talked to the people managing the project, but to no avail. What has been the problem? In my opinion, the problem could be the failure by the programme implementers to effectively implement the programmes and meet the targets.

Mr Speaker, Luapula is one of the areas where the soils are rich. For instance, I remember when Mununshi Banana Scheme was in full swing, Zambia was flooded with bananas. Today, Zimbabwe and South Africa have got that market. Zimbabwe has survived, in terms of fuel, despite sanctions given to it because its agricultural development in terms of sugar gave Zimbabwe and President Mugabe stability to consume their own ethanol, oil from sugar.

Through you, Sir, as far back as 1964, Hon. V. J. Mwaanga will recall that the first area that was earmarked for sugar production was Luena Sugar Estates in Kawambwa District, Luapula Province and Nakambala Sugar was to follow this development. Feasibility studies have been carried out year in and year out, yet, to date, no commitment has been made to that project not even in this year’s Estimates. However, if that commitment was made, Zambia would have benefited in terms of GDP and reduced fuel prices because ethanol is one of the effective ways of fuel conservation.

Mr Speaker, the Libyan Government under President Gaddafi is able to run its economy very effectively because ethanol subscribes a good percentage of fuel for the Libyan industries.

Mr Speaker, I want to plead with this listening Government through you, Sir …

Hon. Government Members: Hear, hear!

Mr Chimbaka: …. that  as a listening Government, which they claim to be, we want them to be serious this time round. Hon. Minister of Finance and National Planning, the time when certain parts of Zambia monopolised the sharing of the cake are gone. Zambia is one country, one people. I can boast about my province being well placed and its people being well established that even former President Kaunda got village regrouping from there. However, a province like Luapula cannot boast of having benefited anything, since time immemorial, apart from the Chembe Bridge that President Mwanawasa imposed on the Government to have constructed. Can the Government point at anything that the people of Luapula have appreciated since independence? There is literally nothing except for …

The Deputy Chairperson: Order!

(Debate adjourned)

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The House adjourned at 1956 hours until 1430 hours on Wednesday, 4th February, 2009